How effective be the combo standard dvd/HD DVD combo titles as HD DVD's trojan horse to penetrate the hidef market and ease the transition from standard to hidef dvd? What are the figures of the combo disk sales? How many consumers without a HD DVD player own the combo disk?

and With Universal stating 90% of their 2007 HD DVD releases will be in combo (and if we the see the price of the combo titles dropping) how soon will we see Universal drop the standard dvd for new titles all together and focusing on combo? = new titles on combo and catalogue titles on HD DVD. Compare this to Blu-ray titles. How soon can we see them drop the standard dvd and produce only blu-ray titles? :p Business wise, how feasible for Universal/paramount/warner to produce ALL new titles in HD DVD/Standard DVD combo (when again the price of the combo titles is at the level of standard dvd and HD DVD titles.

they can only be called the trojan horse IF the MSRP of the combo disc is no more than the regular SD-only version in order to sway the general public to buy the combo version.

However, considering the street-price difference of about $10, who's going to buy the combo if they have not yet already planned to go with HD-DVD in the near future?

You'd probably be in the minority of people pushing the idea of the combo being a positive.

I see it mostly as a way of saving capacity for the feature, and costs of producing/encoding extras. The DVD represents an extras delivery mechanism. No new work needs to be done. And no re-encoding for HD DVD is necessary.

And for catalog titles, like most of the Universal plan will be, isn't a combo selling a DVD to someone who likely already has the DVD?


BD should BY NOW outsold HD DVD 5:1. Yet still, Amazon data consistently show HD DVD ahead of BD. What went wrong?

Probably time to update the sig. It's about 2:1 right now on DVD Empire. And BD has been 100-250 ranking points ahead of HD DVD on Amazon for most of a week.

Gary

It might be a trojan if it were on the same shelves as the regular DVDs. I have only ever seen them with other HD-DVDs, in a small corner section.

If the extra cost was not too high you would think it would be great for the rental companies like Blockbuster.

- Tom

they can only be called the trojan horse IF the MSRP of the combo disc is no more than the regular SD-only version in order to sway the general public to buy the combo version.

However, considering the street-price difference of about $10, who's going to buy the combo if they have not yet already planned to go with HD-DVD in the near future?


I think if they can get the street price down to within $2-3 of the SD then eliminate the SD only version, If they eliminate the SD the pressings on the combos would require the volume of the SD and bring the pressing costs down.

You'd probably be in the minority of people pushing the idea of the combo being a positive.

I see it mostly as a way of saving capacity for the feature, and costs of producing/encoding extras. The DVD represents an extras delivery mechanism. No new work needs to be done. And no re-encoding for HD DVD is necessary.

And for catalog titles, like most of the Universal plan will be, isn't a combo selling a DVD to someone who likely already has the DVD?


Probably time to update the sig. It's about 2:1 right now on DVD Empire. And BD has been 100-250 ranking points ahead of HD DVD on Amazon for most of a week.

Gary

I think you misread his statement. I think he is referring to the PS3 effect that there are 5 times as many BR players than HD DVD players. If the attach rate was consistent between formats then BR should be outselling HD DVD by 5:1. Instead the sales are now comparable ergo the attach rate is lower on BR players. Not a big surprise since not many claimed that every PS3 would likely be used as a BR player.

I think you misread his statement. I think he is referring to the PS3 effect that there are 5 times as many BR players than HD DVD players. If the attach rate was consistent between formats then BR should be outselling HD DVD by 5:1. Instead the sales are now comparable ergo the attach rate is lower on BR players. Not a big surprise since not many claimed that every PS3 would likely be used as a BR player.

Nobody ever claimed there would be 100% BD movie usage on the PS/3. Myself, I was predicting 20%.

If you assume 2x sales on DVD Empire mean 2x users then about 350K PS/3 users are using them for BD disc playing in North America (2 x 200K - 50K BD standalones). That would be about 33% of PS/3 users.

Now, people argue the attach rate of a PS/3 BD user is well below that of a HD DVD owners. If so, then that would raise the usage percentage. If PS/3 owners only purchase 1/2 the discs of HD DVD owners, then that would double the PS/3 usage percentage.

Gary

The combo could be a Trojan Horse if used aggressively. No single DVD sales and a comparable DVD price. That would do the trick.

Cheers,

Grant

The only way combos can be considered a trojan horse is if they elimate the SD version and only ship a HD/SD combo, to be stocked in the SD section of the store. In order to do this without killing sales, they would have to sell them for within a couple bucks of the SD price. For economic reasons, that sounds like a non-starter.

The only way combos can be considered a trojan horse is if they elimate the SD version and only ship a HD/SD combo, to be stocked in the SD section of the store. In order to do this without killing sales, they would have to sell them for within a couple bucks of the SD price. For economic reasons, that sounds like a non-starter.

If they approached, say, Blockbuster, NetFlix, and Walmart with a deal to take combo discs on new releases at the SAME promotional price for a year or so instead of DVD's I suspect the trojan value would be immediately obvious and overwhelming. And they would save the cost of packaging and shipping all the DVD's so the marketing cost of doing this would be greatly dimineshed while the attractiveness of the combo DVD release would be enhanced.

Meanwhile, in the "bragging rights" department, they could add ALL the sales numbers to HD DVD sales and claim to have won the war, just as PS3 is doing with hardware.

And I personally feel that if you establish dominance in the rental market then you win anyway.

- Tom

The combo could be a Trojan Horse if used aggressively. No single DVD sales and a comparable DVD price. That would do the trick.

Absolutely. But, they don't have anywhere near that kind of manufacturing capacity ...

Absolutely. But, they don't have anywhere near that kind of manufacturing capacity ...
Where do you get that idea?? :confused:

Every bit of information we have says that any old dvd line could be turned into a HD-DVD line without much problem, and that manufacturing capability could go from what it currently is to basically unlimited in basically no time. All that would be needed is the reason. And Universal using the HD-DVD/DVD combo as their all encompassing shiny disc would definitely be that reason.

It certainly appears that Universal intends to do away with sd dvd's sometime in the future. I don't see why they would do combo's for any other reason.

I think it is a good idea that will take a couple of years but there are many advantages to doing so. Reduced cost for them, reduced shelf space for the retailers and rental stores. Reduced inventory for the online rentals.

The problem I see is getting the other studios to do the same. I'm concerned that just one studio doing this will not be enough for this to work.

The BR only studios can't do this, period. It appears Warner has a totally different aproach and will not likely change, at least for awhile.

I like the idea myself. But there are some big risks involved for Universal if they can't prove that it works and get the other studios doing the same. For this model to work, HD DVD has to win since BR combo disks can not be manufactured.

Ya. Could there possibly be a move that would tie a studio more inextricably to a format then releasing only combo disks? I think Universal in that case would over take Sony as the exclusive studio least likely to go neutral or switch sides.

I think all the BD fanboys (not so) quietly hoping Universal goes neutral should look to their announcement that 90% of their releases will be combos and realize the only way they'll be watching Universal movies on an HD disk is by buying a HD-DVD player.

I just hate that the only thing that the studios can agree on is that they disagree about everything. We are going to have BD, BD/HD, HD/SD, and HD. Before we know it there is gonna be BD/WS and BD/FS and HD/WS and HD/FS. They think that we want 10 different choices. I dont know why they all released something until they all agreed on one choice.

I dont know why they all released something until they all agreed on one choice.

it's called "greed" :p

I think if they can get the street price down to within $2-3 of the SD then eliminate the SD only version, If they eliminate the SD the pressings on the combos would require the volume of the SD and bring the pressing costs down.


that sounds rational. if sd only discs were gone to be replaced by the combo discs
provided the cost is within 2-3 bucks higher the trojan horse effect would be a major blow to blu ray.

could you imagine all nuetral companies releasing hd dvd combos on all titles released from here on out?

the only thing to hold them back to doing this is the thought of getting j6p to do the eventual double dip of sd--hd.

Single SKU discs are coming and will end the format war.

You'd probably be in the minority of people pushing the idea of the combo being a positive.

Absolutely not. Sales have not suffered one bit if you look at the numbers.

I think most people will be very happy to have one version of a disc to buy that will serve both SD DVD and HD DVD owners.

It will be less confusing to the customer.

The people that run the studios will love them because they can save on packaging, marketing, etc.

The retailers and rental chains will love them because they take up one space on the shelf for both formats.

The only remaining barriers are price and manufacturing capacity, both being addressed.

Combos discs will ultimately be what drives HD DVD into everyone's homes and will push mass amounts of hardware out the door.

Where do you get that idea?? :confused:

Every bit of information we have says that any old dvd line could be turned into a HD-DVD line without much problem, and that manufacturing capability could go from what it currently is to basically unlimited in basically no time. All that would be needed is the reason. And Universal using the HD-DVD/DVD combo as their all encompassing shiny disc would definitely be that reason.

Then you don't very much or accurate information... HD-DVD 30/9 combos require 4 times the manpower (of DVD) and a replication line that costs around $2.5 million dollars to produce 5000-10000 discs per day.

http://www.oto-online.com/pdf/oto_download/2006/10/OTO_October_P55-58_EMX.pdf

Page 4 of the article...

b2b

Then you don't very much or accurate information... HD-DVD 30/9 combos require 4 times the manpower (of DVD) and a replication line that costs around $2.5 million dollars to produce 5000-10000 discs per day.

http://www.oto-online.com/pdf/oto_download/2006/10/OTO_October_P55-58_EMX.pdf

Page 4 of the article...

b2b
Ya, I didn't say they were equivalent. Plus, that information only pertains to making a brand new line for the purpose of producing combos. It says nothing about what is involved in transitioning a already existing dvd line to a line capable of making combo disks. So that link and your comment really have no relevance to my statement. Nice try though.

The only "trojan" we'll be seeing is Universal using the "Naturalambs" on HD DVD owners with this 90% combos policy. ;) :D

Ya, I didn't say they were equivalent. Plus, that information only pertains to making a brand new line for the purpose of producing combos. It says nothing about what is involved in transitioning a already existing dvd line to a line capable of making combo disks. So that link and your comment really have no relevance to my statement. Nice try though.

So do you have any information that remotely supports your notion that converting a run of mill DVD line into a Combo production line has even been tried? Or is that just a wishful opinion ??

The article plainly states that a DVD line is 320 sq.ft. in size and a combo line is 820 sq.ft.. What do they do, bolt two DVD lines together, add a few mods (the extra 180 sq.ft.) and they're good to go ??

b2b

Where do you get that idea?? :confused:

Every bit of information we have says that any old dvd line could be turned into a HD-DVD line without much problem, and that manufacturing capability could go from what it currently is to basically unlimited in basically no time. All that would be needed is the reason. And Universal using the HD-DVD/DVD combo as their all encompassing shiny disc would definitely be that reason.

Yes, but that doesn't happen overnight. Infact IIRC Warner said sometime back they would be having only combos, if there was enough capacity.

I know this is a minority opinion, but I like combos. Combos let me, someone who has yet to take the plunge, begin to amass a decent amount of HD content, while at the same time be able to enjoy said content in SD. Plus, it's a much better way to watch movies on my laptop. SD is still very useful for some things, I'd hate to give it up completely for the time being.

I totally understand the argument of "not wanting to pay for something you won't use". But for me, I'd be using the SD side for at least a little while, so the benefit is there.

Now, the premium I'm willing to pay for said feature remains to be seen....

My goodness, if Universal eliminates the DVD and only makes SD/HD combo disc at a lower price. They will force many HD DVD into many homes of people who owns DVD players. This will definitely favor HD DVD when the players hit $199 - $299. Nice strategy, but only if the Combo price is not greater than SD stuff.

I hate flippers and I hate paying more. I would rather they included an HD-DVD and a regular DVD (or 2 or 3 or whatever) as separate discs at the standard DVD price.

And they would have to stop production on regular DVD's. Until then (and capacity can be expanded to cover it), there is no trojan horse at all.

Combos aren't necessarily flippers (TWIN), they can be single sided (HD-30/DVD-5). Also, even the flipper ones don't need to be flipped (you only watch one side, not the other).

Typical "flippers" were termed that because you HAD to flip the disc to watch the second half (get your collective lazy asses off the couch and back to your player half-way through the movie). That is definitely NOT the case here.

I hate flippers and I hate paying more.

Not you too?!? ...noooooooo! ;)

Combos are not "flippers." A flipper is akin to the very first DVDs, or more akin to Laserdisc in that a portion of the feature is on side 'A' and the remainder of the feature is contained on side 'B' (or C,D,E,F, etc. with some old CAV sets.)

There is thus far no 'flipping' required to view the feature on a HD DVD combo disc. 'Flipper' seems to be just a smear terminology generally used by the Blu people to sway others off of HD DVD.

So do you have any information that remotely supports your notion that converting a run of mill DVD line into a Combo production line has even been tried? Or is that just a wishful opinion ??

The article plainly states that a DVD line is 320 sq.ft. in size and a combo line is 820 sq.ft.. What do they do, bolt two DVD lines together, add a few mods (the extra 180 sq.ft.) and they're good to go ??

b2b

You are on a roll tonight my friend...

I politely rephrased these questions to Amir on the insider's thread.

I asked: “Can current DVD replication lines be converted into "combo" HD DVD production lines?”

Amir’s response:



Yes although the conversion is from a DVD-18 line to HD DVD combo (assuming combo HD DVD-30/DVD-9).

Next I asked: “Going deeper into that, if they can be so converted, is the expense far greater than the standard DVD to HD DVD line conversion process, or is there much additional equipment needed?

Amir’s response:

The lines are a bit more specialized in that they have to be able to make the equiv. of dual sided DVD-18 discs. But since last fall, these lines have been coming online and cost is not a big issue.

Seems to me that the train is rolling down the tracks.

Then you don't very much or accurate information... HD-DVD 30/9 combos require 4 times the manpower (of DVD) and a replication line that costs around $2.5 million dollars to produce 5000-10000 discs per day.

http://www.oto-online.com/pdf/oto_download/2006/10/OTO_October_P55-58_EMX.pdf

Page 4 of the article...

b2b

Hey b2b. I don't see where they say the cost of the production line is $2.5 million. Previous articles I've seen indicate converting an existing DVD-9 line to HD-DVD is in the $250K range.

A DVD-9 line produces 25,000-30,000 discs per day according to the article and an HD-DVD 30/9 line produces 5,000-10,000 discs per day (as you pointed out).

Ya. Could there possibly be a move that would tie a studio more inextricably to a format then releasing only combo disks? I think Universal in that case would over take Sony as the exclusive studio least likely to go neutral or switch sides.

I think all the BD fanboys (not so) quietly hoping Universal goes neutral should look to their announcement that 90% of their releases will be combos and realize the only way they'll be watching Universal movies on an HD disk is by buying a HD-DVD player.

actually by the rate that Universal is pushing HD DVD, in the very near future BD fanboys will have to purchase the the HD DVD/Combo new Universal titles just to enjoy the standard dvd. :D

now - get the combo disk price down to that of standard dvd, get the HD DVD/Standard dvd on one single side so that art can be printed on the other side. PERFECTION :) ... now Universal can retire standar dvd on EVERY SINGLE new titles. :)

Then you don't very much or accurate information... HD-DVD 30/9 combos require 4 times the manpower (of DVD) and a replication line that costs around $2.5 million dollars to produce 5000-10000 discs per day.

http://www.oto-online.com/pdf/oto_download/2006/10/OTO_October_P55-58_EMX.pdf

Page 4 of the article...

b2b

orlly ....

Dude, the combo format isn't as much as a trojan horse as it is a pain in the @ss. Its stupid and it adds cost to a disk that ALREADY costs too much. Plus, it makes both sides of a disk a read side, whereas regular HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disks only have one with art on the other - making it easy to determine which side to face up when putting it in the player. With these stupid things you have to look close at the fine print in the middle of the disk to make sure you're putting it in right.

I hate it. From my viewpoint - why in the hell would want the DVD version when I already have an HD-DVD player. And they force me to pay extra for this "feature"? Just plain STUPID.

Dude,


Dude? Uh oh, we're going downhill already...

With these stupid things you have to look close at the fine print in the middle of the disk to make sure you're putting it in right.


I don't believe you've ever used an HD DVD combo disc.

If you had, you'd have noticed that the red and black rings are always on the HD DVD side. No reading is necessary. If you can see the rings with the "fine print" on them, guess what? That's the HD DVD side.

Can we put this argument to rest already? I've seen lots of HD DVD combo discs and they've all been setup the same way.

...it makes both sides of a disk a read side, whereas regular HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disks only have one with art on the other - making it easy to determine which side to face up when putting it in the player.So if Twin Format (not a flipper) comes along selling at the same cost as a standard HD DVD -- then it will be OK?

Dude, the combo format isn't as much as a trojan horse as it is a pain in the @ss. Its stupid and it adds cost to a disk that ALREADY costs too much. Plus, it makes both sides of a disk a read side, whereas regular HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disks only have one with art on the other - making it easy to determine which side to face up when putting it in the player. With these stupid things you have to look close at the fine print in the middle of the disk to make sure you're putting it in right.

I hate it. From my viewpoint - why in the hell would want the DVD version when I already have an HD-DVD player. And they force me to pay extra for this "feature"? Just plain STUPID.

I agree that combo discs cost too much, but claiming that the HD DVD itself cost too much? Then you shouldn't be having this hobby. Also if anyone is having difficulty in reading the (not so) tiny print to determine which side is HD, then you shouldn't be watching HD since all details will be lost anyway.

Last but not least, just because you have ONE HD DVD player you render all SD DVD version obsolete? I have 5 TVs and only one attached to an HD player... and this is the case with most people. I'd rather pay more for combo than pay for an HD DVD plus the SD version.

I'm Ok with the cost they are at for the most part. I have to admit, I have used the combo functionality a ton. At my 2nd home, at friends places, in the conversion van. I sort of like them.

Dude? Uh oh, we're going downhill already...



I don't believe you've ever used an HD DVD combo disc.

If you had, you'd have noticed that the red and black rings are always on the HD DVD side. No reading is necessary. If you can see the rings with the "fine print" on them, guess what? That's the HD DVD side.

Can we put this argument to rest already? I've seen lots of HD DVD combo discs and they've all been setup the same way.
I put "Dude" because this "boi's" posts are the most fanboyish I have ever read and have constant anti blu-ray motives to them. They are constant, and annoying, and not really intelligent conversation on the formats and IMO belongs on a HD-DVD fanboy forum. I seriously doubt the constant pro HD-DVD and anti blu-ray rhetoric has managed to sway anyone. If anything my support of blu-ray has probably grown instead.

Oh, and btw - I have a PS3 with Blu-Ray and Xbox with HD-DVD add-on and as a matter of fact, I do own HD-DVD combo disks.

Thanks....

So if Twin Format (not a flipper) comes along selling at the same cost as a standard HD DVD -- then it will be OK?

Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with it then. To be honest I have HD-DVD so I have no need for the DVD content, and would just as soon have the art on one side of the disk but its not that big of a deal.

When its a movie I want to buy however, and the unwanted combo feature adds $5 to $10 to a disk and pushes the price to $29 instead of $19 for the SD version then I start to get annoyed. Particularly when there are multiple movies I would like to buy and not just one.

Just sayin...

Thanx to those of you who referred me to Amazon on these, I'll be getting mine from there now. But ya know, it would be nice to say, be in Best Buy sometime and see a couple movies I like and just be able to pick them up and go right home to watch instead of ordering and waiting. Oh well, it'll all work out in the end I'm sure.

I'm Ok with the cost they are at for the most part. I have to admit, I have used the combo functionality a ton. At my 2nd home, at friends places, in the conversion van. I sort of like them.
Good point actually - I'm having a Kenwood In-dash DVD put in my car so there is a use for it.

ugh, screw the combo's.. over 80% of the respondents from the HD-DVD board said they didn't want HD-DVD combo's as well.

I think that if Universal wants combos to be the "Trojan Horse" and decides to elimintate standard dvds altogether that it would only work on their new releases. The majority of sd dvd buyers relate older movies like The Jerk to discount bins at Wal-Mart. When you try to charge more for the privelege of HD to someone that only has SD you will lose a lot of sales. Especially when most people don't even have HDTV and some probably won't ever own them (if they have cable or satelite). The only way it could work is somehow they manage to sell combo discs for less than $10.

ugh, screw the combo's.. over 80% of the respondents from the HD-DVD board said they didn't want HD-DVD combo's as well.

Well that has apparently changed. According to this newer poll (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795800), 70% would be fine with combos with some of them willing to pay more for a combo.

Only 15% say they wouldn't buy a combo at any price.

That is a different poll with different choices (such as if the prices were different, etc). The other poll was simply two choices, of course it only had about 300 responses.

edit: I see "Will buy happily if they are the same price as HD DVDs " 49%

well that isn't reality, hence why the two polls aren't the same



"Will pay $3-$5 premium over normal HD DVDs " 7%

This portion stands out as this is what pricing really is right now. Only 7%, that's actually worse than the previous poll that was closed, of course this poll had a larger response.

well that isn't reality, hence why the two polls aren't the smae..

They are different, but I figure some may have changed their minds.

I used to hate the combo idea, but now I've grown to like the flexibility of being able to play a disc anywhere in the house (or in the car). Even if I already own the SD DVD, I'd like the combo because I can sell off the SD DVD and have both in one package.

The last two HD DVDs I've bought because they were combos: Slither and The Departed. Of course, I would buy a non-combo disc, but given all the choices of titles it was the combo that broke the tie.

same price, I'd be all for it as well. It would be a great way to help mass-adoption. $5 more, I just don't like it and that is where it is at.

as a matter of fact, I do own HD-DVD combo disks.

Thanks....

Since I have single-handedly removed your need to struggle to 'read the fine print' in the middle of your combo discs... You're Welcome.

Since I have single-handedly removed your need to struggle to 'read the fine print' in the middle of your combo discs... You're Welcome.
Its cool, its still something you kinda have to look at - and there just seems to be more of a "be carefull with it" feeling to the disks because of both sides being read.

That said, I don't mind if its the same price as regular HD-DVDs....

Not you too?!? ...noooooooo! ;)

Combos are not "flippers." A flipper is akin to the very first DVDs, or more akin to Laserdisc in that a portion of the feature is on side 'A' and the remainder of the feature is contained on side 'B' (or C,D,E,F, etc. with some old CAV sets.)

There is thus far no 'flipping' required to view the feature on a HD DVD combo disc. 'Flipper' seems to be just a smear terminology generally used by the Blu people to sway others off of HD DVD.
I think that most of the people complaining about flippers in the HD DVD sense know that you don't necessariy have to flip the disc half way throught the movie. A lot of people don't like flippers because there is no silkscreen to easily identify the disc and know which side is rihgt side up. This is probably a bigger issue with people with older eyes and especially if you keep your DVDs in pocket cases. I make copies of many of my DVDs, and the original goes into a pocket case. Try finding a disk in a pocket case when there is no silkscreen. Life has gotten good since those flippers lost popularity. Now, you have studios bringing back flippers and expecting to charge even more than just the already premium price for HD discs. I can appreciate the fact that some people see value in a SD/HD DVD flipper, but these flippers come across as a slap in the face for people who fundamentally dislike flippers and are expected to pay extra on top of that. These flippers would be great if the same HD titles are also available in an "economy" non-flipper version.

Then you don't very much or accurate information... HD-DVD 30/9 combos require 4 times the manpower (of DVD) and a replication line that costs around $2.5 million dollars to produce 5000-10000 discs per day.

http://www.oto-online.com/pdf/oto_download/2006/10/OTO_October_P55-58_EMX.pdf

Page 4 of the article...

b2b

Good article. That was six months ago though, interesting to hear what those gentlemen have to say today.

orlly ....

Plonk !!

EOM

b2b

Plonk !!

EOM

b2b


hmm what are plonk and EOM?

It's funny that this the price of this trojan horse is 4-5 dollars more expensive than the Blu-ray version of the same title...

It's funny that this the price of this trojan horse is 4-5 dollars more expensive than the Blu-ray version of the same title...

erm .. this trojan horse is HD DVD + Standard DVD. Your $4-5 less expensive BD titles is BD ONLY - no standard DVD. Can only be watched on Blu-ray players ONLY. Where as the trojan horse can be viewed in HD DVD players and BILLIONS of standard dvd players.

I don't see it favorably for HD-DVD when I see the same title for $5 less on blu-ray right next to it, regardless of it including SD as well.

Let's look at one example: The Departed on amazon, from best- to worst-selling.

2-disc Special Edition (SD). List $34.99, amazon price $20.99. Sales rank 4.
1-disc Widescreen Edition (SD). List $28.98, amazon price $15.99. Sales rank 27.
Blu-ray. List $34.99, amazon price $23.95. Sales rank 74.
Combo SD-HD. List $39.99, amazon price $27.95. Sales rank 91.
1-disc Fullscreen Edition (SD). List $28.98, amazon price $15.99. Sales rank 134.

So a hypothetical SD-only owner who bought the combo would pay $7 over the SE and forfeit the bonus features of the second disc (they are on the HD side!).

A Trojan horse must give you no choice but to take it. Otherwise, it would be like Sony offering a PS3 without BD for $399. That's not a Trojan horse, it's a Trojan rabbit. ;)

That is all a ridiculously large selection when you consider trying to get shelf space in the brick & mortar stores.

And I do think they are maybe charging too much of a premium for the combos. It may hurt them.

- Tom

Sounds like another advantage to getting a BD player is that in addition to the exclusive titles you can save around $4 per disc by purchasing the BD version for common titles. when the HD DVD alternative is a combo.

You know I actually started buying HD-DVD combo discs before I had an HD-DVD player. I wish the prices were not higher but it did help my transition to HD-DVD.

For others who already have HD DVD it will ease their transition to Blu-ray:-)

Sounds like another advantage to getting a BD player is that in addition to the exclusive titles you can save around $4 per disc by purchasing the BD version for common titles. when the HD DVD alternative is a combo.

Well, like most Blu-Ray FudPuppets(tm), you're making the erroneous assumption that HD-DVD combo prices will remain $4 higher than Blu-Ray prices.

For example, "The Jerk", one of the newest announced combo titles, has an MSRP of $34.98 (down $5 from previous combo titles), and is listing at Amazon for $23.95, which is the SAME PRICE as most Blu-Ray titles, and less than any Fox BR title.

Poof! That's the sound of your price gap going up in smoke...

What is the MSRP for the The Jerk on blu-ray? That is really the only thing that it should be compared to.

Well, like most Blu-Ray FudPuppets(tm), you're making the erroneous assumption that HD-DVD combo prices will remain $4 higher than Blu-Ray prices.

For example, "The Jerk", one of the newest announced combo titles, has an MSRP of $34.98 (down $5 from previous combo titles), and is listing at Amazon for $23.95, which is the SAME PRICE as most Blu-Ray titles, and less than any Fox BR title.

Poof! That's the sound of your price gap going up in smoke...
FudPuppets(tm)? I have an HD-A1 and an HD-XA2 on the way that will replace it. I don;t currently have a BD player. I have a vested interest in stopping the stupidity ASAP. If the stupidity continues, that will only increase my motivation to purchase a BD player and buy BD titles for less. If the price premium goes away then I will be less motivated to purchase BD. I look forward to the "Poof" that you speak of.

What is the MSRP for the The Jerk on blu-ray? That is really the only thing that it should be compared to.

Well considering it's a Universal title, I guess we'll never know, will we? ;)

Seriously though, I don't get your point. If an item has an MSRP of $99 and another has an MSRP of $199, but they both regularly sell on the street for $49, we should still consider the latter "more expensive"?

When people comparison shop, they really don't give two hoots what the list prices are; the bottom line is what the disc sells for, not an artificial MSRP...

Well considering it's a Universal title, I guess we'll never know, will we? ;)

Seriously though, I don't get your point. If an item has an MSRP of $99 and another has an MSRP of $199, but they both regularly sell on the street for $49, we should still consider the latter "more expensive"?

When people comparison shop, they really don't give two hoots what the list prices are; the bottom line is what the disc sells for, not an artificial MSRP...

We may, we may not. Time will tell as to if Universal titles go to blu-ray.

Well since it isn't on both a better/logical comparison would be to use a title that IS on both like Superman Returns. Which happens to be $5 more on HD-DVD.

You know I actually started buying HD-DVD combo discs before I had an HD-DVD player. I wish the prices were not higher but it did help my transition to HD-DVD.

If they priced them right it would help everyone's transition to HD-DVD!

The idea wouldn't be to sell combo discs to HD DVD buyers but instead to get a bazaillion HD DVD discs into the hands of folks that would then have an incentive to first rent and then buy a player once they also purcased a decent HDTV, soon.

But so far it does not seem the combo studios are targeting this.

- Tom