Hello,

Does anyone know if the atsc group are working on 1080p ota broadcast tv channels?

Thanks

1080p (30fps & 24fps) is already part of the ATSC standards, but don't expect to see it for quite some time on OTA HD.

1080p (30fps & 24fps) is already part of the ATSC standards, but don't expect to see it for quite some time on OTA HD.Ken
Your response seems to imply that it will happen at some future date. But this ASTC standard has been around since 1996 (or whenever it came out) and it seems that no broadcaster is interested in sending that format and to me it seems that broadcasters will never be interested, especially given the formats that have been adopted. So do you really believe it will happen?

BTW, 1080P @ 60 fps isn't going to happen for ASTC - the bandwidth needed would exceed the 6 MHz that's allocated for broadcast channels.

Ed

http://tvnewsday.com/articles/2007/01/25/daily.5/

You'll have to register to read the article.

Ron

http://tvnewsday.com/articles/2007/01/25/daily.5/

You'll have to register to read the article.

Ron
Can you give us an idea what the article is about?

Ed

Can you give us an idea what the article is about?

Ed
It talks about 1080p@60 for ATSC.

Ron

http://tvnewsday.com/articles/2007/01/25/daily.5/

You'll have to register to read the article.

Ron
Would you mind posting the article. The site won't allow you to register with a bogus email - and the last thing I need to do is register with another site that I'll only look at maybe one time.

Thanks.
Ed

Would you mind posting the article. The site won't allow you to register with a bogus email - and the last thing I need to do is register with another site that I'll only look at maybe one time.

Thanks.
Ed
They talked about using a scalable approach to 1080p@60. That is, using a base MPEG-2 bitstream at 720p or 1080i (that is compatible with existing ATSC receivers) and augmenting that with a scalable bitstream (possibly H.264) to provide 1080p@60 for new receivers.

Ron

Thanks to dr1394 for the link. (BTW, you can register at the site with an anonymous e-mail address; make sure cookies for the site are enabled to make it work after registration and e-mail confirmation.)

Here's another recent article (http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/1080P_60p/)on possible 1080/60p (and 24p) OTA delivery. Couldn't find anything at the ATSC.org site. The earlier link above is an interview with an ATSC vip, and you'd think some mention of progressive 1080p OTA explorations would be buried somewhere at their site. They need a site search engine. -- John

They talked about using a scalable approach to 1080p@60. That is, using a base MPEG-2 bitstream at 720p or 1080i (that is compatible with existing ATSC receivers) and augmenting that with a scalable bitstream (possibly H.264) to provide 1080p@60 for new receivers.
I suspect that many AVSers would scream after looking at the PQ from such a station...

Thanks to dr1394 for the link. (BTW, you can register at the site with an anonymous e-mail address; make sure cookies for the site are enabled to make it work after registration and e-mail confirmation.)

Here's another recent article (http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/1080P_60p/)on possible 1080/60p (and 24p) OTA delivery. Couldn't find anything at the ATSC.org site. The earlier link above is an interview with an ATSC vip, and you'd think some mention of progressive 1080p OTA explorations would be buried somewhere at their site. They need a site search engine. -- John

What I got from that article was that 1080/24p could be a reality but they did not see 1080/60p being a reality. " 1080 60p doesn’t fit in SMPTE 292 SDI channel. Even with the adoption of the 3Gb/s serial interface, SMPTE 424, the 1080 60p bandwidth requirement will present content distribution challenges in a production infrastructure.

However, 1080 24p isn’t as bad as one might think."

Did I miss a point?

I suspect that many AVSers would scream after looking at the PQ from such a station...This comment makes no sense.

If the technology worked, an augmented ATSC bitstream could handle 1080p. All that's needed is more bits.

This comment makes no sense.

If the technology worked, an augmented ATSC bitstream could handle 1080p. All that's needed is more bits.
It would work, but for those with MPEG-2 boxes, only a fraction of the 19.3 mbps bitrate would be available to them. People have been complaining about PQ with current 1080i technology at 12-14 mbps. What would be the MPEG-2 bitrate of a station operating this idea?

It would work, but for those with MPEG-2 boxes, only a fraction of the 19.3 mbps bitrate would be available to them. People have been complaining about PQ with current 1080i technology at 12-14 mbps. What would be the MPEG-2 bitrate of a station operating this idea?
You would have to balance the bitrate between the base layer and the enhancement layer. The easiest base layer would be 720p@60, which can look pretty good at 15 Mbps. This would leave about 3 Mbps for the enhancement layer. Remember, the enhancement layer is not carrying a full image. It's just the difference image between the original 1080p@60 source and the downsampled 720p@60 base layer.

To be honest, I'm not really sure if 3 Mbps would be enough for the enhancement layer, since I don't have any experience with scalable encoding. In fact, there's not much experience in scalable coding in general, since it was never really used in MPEG-2. That is, there are no real-time SNR@HL, Spatial@HL or HP@HL encoders or decoders in the existence today. However, the JVT group is currently defining scalable profiles for the H.264 standard.

Ron