I have noticed that there is a disportinate number of titles from companies that support both formats (Warner) that still have exclusive titles in only one format.

Does anybody know why (or have an educated guess) Warner has not completed their library on both formats?

The "other" media companies also tend to support HD-DVD at about twice the quantity.

The numbers...

Unique format title Quantity
Blu-Ray (Warner) 0
HD-DVD (Warner) 21
Blu-Ray (Other) 7
HD-DVD (Other) 20

Blu-Ray only titles (by Warner)
None

HD-DVD only titles (Warner)
Constantine W DL V 8.5 DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Perfect Storm W DL V 7.5 DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Dukes of Hazzard W DL V 8 DD+ EFS N 28.95
Enter the Dragon W DL V 8 DD+ EFS N 28.95
Caddyshack W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Troy W DL V DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Adventures of Robin Hood W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Dirty Dozen W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Grand Prix W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Terminator 3 W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Batman Begins W DL V DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Charlie & Chocolate Fact W DL V DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Polar Express W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Willy Wonka & Chocolate F W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Excalibur W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
V for Vendetta W DL V DTHD/DD N 28.95
Casablanca W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Forbidden Planet W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.99
Mutiny on the Bounty W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Smallville: Fifth Season W 5DL V DD+ FS N 79.98
Poseidon W DC V DD+ EFS 34.95

Blu-Ray only titles (Other)
Bikini Dest.: Triple F. O SL M DTS/DD ES N 26.98
Bubble O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
Enron: the Smartest Guys O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
HDNet: Shuttle Discovery O SL M DTS/DD ES N 26.98
One Last Thing O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
War Within O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
Legends of Jazz Showcase O SL M DTHD/PCM/DD N 34.98

HD-DVD only titles (Other)
Best of GetOut! Vol. 1 O M N 14.95
Best of GetOut! Vol. 2 O M N 14.95
Best of HD W. Rep. Vol. 1 O M N 14.95
Best of HD W. Rep. Vol. 2 O M N 14.95
One Six Right O SL M DD+ N 24.95
Cream: Royal Albert Hall O DTS N 29.99
Eagles: Farewell Tour 1 O PCM/DTS N 29.99
James Taylor: Musicares O PCM 19.99
Chronos O DL M DTMA/DD+ N 24.99
Chicago/Earth Wind & Fire O DD+ J N 24.99
Heart: Alive in Seattle O DTHD/DD+ J N 24.99
Manilow Live! O DTHD/DD+ J N 24.99
Derailed O DL A DD+ ES N 29.95
Matador O DL A DD+ ES N 29.95
Scary Movie 4 O DL A DD+ ES N 29.95
Wolf Creek O DL A DD+ EFS N 29.95
Clerks II O 2D
Lucky Number Slevin O
Pulse O
School for Scoundrels O A 29.95

Does anybody know why (or have an educated guess) Warner has not completed their library on both formats? They are busy and they receive no subsidizing money to push them to release those titles without sufficient audience on Blu-ray.

Ast Talktr8. He should know :p ... anyhow - the rest of us think its because of BD's interactive feature. Their european releases are HD DVD only for titles with the In Movie Experience intractive feature

Ast Talktr8. He should know :p ... anyhow - the rest of us think its because of BD's interactive feature. Their european releases are HD DVD only for titles with the In Movie Experience intractive feature

Yes. I beleive one of his posts mentioned something like they are waiting for "feature parity" between the two formats. This may also be why they have withheld some titles from HD DVD.

J

As you can see from the list, they have with held exactly ZERO titles from HD-DVD.

They have 42 shared titles and 21 unique to HD-DVD and 0 unique to Blu-Ray.

One third of their line up, if they were being graded for completeness, they would be failing.

As you can see from the list, they have with held exactly ZERO titles from HD-DVD.

They have 42 shared titles and 21 unique to HD-DVD and 0 unique to Blu-Ray.

One third of their line up, if they were being graded for completeness, they would be failing.
The picture is a little bigger than your list.
They have delayed the Matrix movies, and I think the HP movies which were originally planned to be out in 2006. This is most likely due to the fact that BD-J is pretty much non-functional right now. They have also stated that they will release the missing titles on BR.
J

Well, we know for a FACT that Warner has Harry Potter 4 ready to go for the US. The UK release even has the AMERICAN FBI warning! So there is no logical reason why they are not releasing HP4 unless they are waiting for BD to catch up. Other studios have released sequels before the original movies (Bourne Supremacy comes to mind) so I don't think they are necessarily waiting for all 4 movies to be complete (if so, why release HP4 to the UK?).

Good point. They are definitely holding back HP4 in the US..
J

There could also be a few cases where poor sales are holding them back. I'm just guessing on the titles, but maybe something like Excalibur or Mutiny on the Bounty didn't sell that well, so they're in no hurry to get them out on BD (at least until the user base gets larger).

Perhaps a BD insider who knows about BD J can set us straight. If indeed BD J is the issue with Warner.

I believe they are holding back for better revenue impact.

Does the PS3 do BD J currently?

I got the list from the 2006 & 2007 Grupert list & almost all the titles have been in the HD format for 2+ months. Constitine and a perfect Storm for 8+ months.

How is that picture incomplete?

This is why I asked the question. I think the poor sales pitch may be the best excuse/reason for their delay I can think of, but there are at least 5 on the list I would like to own on Blu-Ray.

I can accept not being able to get movies from Universal and other HD-DVD only studios, but one that is playing both sides, I would expect them to play equally to the best of their abilities.

I got the list from the 2006 & 2007 Grupert list & almost all the titles have been in the HD format for 2+ months. Constitine and a perfect Storm for 8+ months.

How is that picture incomplete?

This is why I asked the question. I think the poor sales pitch may be the best excuse/reason for their delay I can think of, but there are at least 5 on the list I would like to own on Blu-Ray.

I can accept not being able to get movies from Universal and other HD-DVD only studios, but one that is playing both sides, I would expect them to play equally to the best of their abilities.

8+ month ago BD only had the single disk and the VC1 master/options would not fit. MPEG2 encoding was not something they wanted to do.

When the DL BD came out Warner started releasing more titles on Blu Ray.

That is largely the reason earlier titles were only on HD DVD.

Warner is currently playing catch up on the BD side.

What other people are talking about is now titles are being held back on the HD DVD side because Blu Rays interactivity (BD-J) is not ready yet. HD DVD titles have been completed but Warner is waiting for BD-J so they can release at the same time.

I've decided not to buy any more Warner titles (except buy a few imported ones), just rent them like all Blu-Ray titles.

Cheers,

Grant

I got the list from the 2006 & 2007 Grupert list & almost all the titles have been in the HD format for 2+ months. Constitine and a perfect Storm for 8+ months.

How is that picture incomplete?

This is why I asked the question. I think the poor sales pitch may be the best excuse/reason for their delay I can think of, but there are at least 5 on the list I would like to own on Blu-Ray.

I can accept not being able to get movies from Universal and other HD-DVD only studios, but one that is playing both sides, I would expect them to play equally to the best of their abilities.

The problem is BD-J. The BDA group doesn't have it working. Many of these titles have HDi. This is affecting everyone now, since Warner has promised to release titles in 2007 on both formats simultaneously.
check this out:
where's the interactivity? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=796592)
J

Warner has stated those will be coming out on BR.
J

I've decided not to buy any more Warner titles (except buy a few imported ones), just rent them like all Blu-Ray titles.

Cheers,

Grant

And? What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

And? What does that have to do with the topic at hand?


I am guessing it speaks to a distaste for Warner's apparent strategy of 'playing both sides' per the thread topic.

Warner had a gift with HD DVD, but they seem to be pissing it away with greedy visions of TotalHD mass adoption.

They send out so many mixed signals lately it's ridiculous. It is making it harder to get behind them one way or the other when their strategy is unknown, and their titles are being held back (US Potter already done, packaged and shipped to another region.)

I am guessing it speaks to a distaste for Warner's apparent strategy of 'playing both sides' per the thread topic.

Warner had a gift with HD DVD, but they seem to be pissing it away with greedy visions of TotalHD mass adoption.

They send out so many mixed signals lately it's ridiculous. It is making it harder to get behind them one way or the other when their strategy is unknown, and their titles are being held back (US Potter already done, packaged and shipped to another region.)

Well I think Warner's announcement that all of their high def releases would be TotalHD discs by mid '07 is a sign that they fully intend to be format neutral very soon. Certainly they're well aware that their BD offerings are a bit behind schedule but thankfully they've promised to be caught up shortly. By the 3Q I don't think anyone will be questioning if Warner is truly format neutral anymore.

Isn't Warner using VC-1 exclusively now and using Microsoft tools to master using VC-1 on HD-DVD and then using the conversion tools for the BD version? I think what Warner is trying to stay away from is having to do the same work twice to offer both formats. Microsoft has made it very easy for Warner to master HD-DVD, while the BDA has not offered much in the way of support at all. Warner is ready to go THD right now, but BD-J isn't ready which is why the target date for THD is June/July.

Nobody should be blaming Warner. They should be asking Sony what the holdup with BD-J is as well as the software tools needed to easily make these transfers occur.

So if it is the BD-J that is holding up these titles release on Blu-Ray does that mean that EVERY one of these titles on currently HD-DVD are integrated with HD-DVD's Advanced Content?

If so then I can accept the reasoning for that. More specifically, lets make a list that does not include the HD-DVD's that have the Advanced Content and then see what the list shows.

*Note: Remember that Advanced Content is not the same as HD-DVD's interactive menu system*

Lets refresh the list. :)

Warner is holding back titles because they don't want to release them twice and they can't release them on BDA the way they want to.

This is what my contact at Warner Home Video told me, he won't however let me quote him or mention his name. Which is odd all in itself.

Perhaps a BD insider who knows about BD J can set us straight. If indeed BD J is the issue with Warner.

If the person were to talk straight and not spin at all times ... ;)


Does the PS3 do BD J currently?

Something I'd like to know too ...

Does the PS3 do BD J currently?

yes

yes

The only other fellow in my Classic Horror forum (who supports both HD/BD) said.

Warners corporate wants both formats, but the home video division is in favor of HD DVD.

Don't know how widely known this is, but a big part of the "BD-J delays" have to be due to the studios having to use software programmers to "hand code" the java for the interactive features. There are no authoring tools for BD-J like the HDi side has. This was addressed in the insiders forum, as well as in the interview with Joone (at least I think it was Joone). So unless there are some BD-J specs that are not finalized for some reason, I believe the responsibility for this delay falls entirely on Warner. I suspect that Warner, and maybe some other BDA supporting studios, are probably trying to build some re-usable software libraries and/or tools so they don't have to code the BD-J content from the ground up for every BD release. Hand coding software from scratch with nothing to borrow/copy from is not a trivial thing. Especially given the high profile "microscope" that results from this format war. Not to mention that they have to assemble a programming team and get them trained in BD-J development.

Here's a response from Talk that describes what the studios are doing to create BD-J interactive content for BD releases: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9674448&&#post9674448

So are all of the 21 titles listed iHD?

Don't know how widely known this is, but a big part of the "BD-J delays" have to be due to the studios having to use software programmers to "hand code" the java for the interactive features. There are no authoring tools for BD-J like the HDi side has. This was addressed in the insiders forum, as well as in the interview with Joone (at least I think it was Joone). So unless there are some BD-J specs that are not finalized for some reason, I believe the responsibility for this delay falls entirely on Warner. I suspect that Warner, and maybe some other BDA supporting studios, are probably trying to build some re-usable software libraries and/or tools so they don't have to code the BD-J content from the ground up for every BD release. Hand coding software from scratch with nothing to borrow/copy from is not a trivial thing. Especially given the high profile "microscope" that results from this format war. Not to mention that they have to assemble a programming team and get them trained in BD-J development.

It is my understanding that the issue is AUTHORING not deployment. I have seen some announcements of authoring tools that are being made available that will handle both BD-J and iHD. Possibly these will be "lowest common demoninator", allowing the user to author for both platforms.

A few notes:

1. I think that the machines all work now.
2. Some of the Warner's titles are being held up for interactivity.
3. HOWEVER most of the 20+ titles that Warners is "behind" on (titles already released on HD DVD) do not require interactivity anyway.
4. My guess is that Warners is now waiting for the market to pick up a bit before we see those titles. I am also guessing that some of the classics that they shipped were not big sellers at all and they may defer them until much later.

It seems clear that Warners put a big effort into this (especially HD DVD) and is now feeling that they made too much of an investment.

Everyone remember that Warner was an HD-DVD exclusive right to the introduction from Toshiba and Sony of both formats. Warner then changed to support both. Those exclusive titles may be been in the works for HD-DVD long before Blu-ray was in the picture.

As said many time before, the BD-J does have to do with less extras on the current released titles as well. It's hard to implement something that doesn't work quite yet.

Warner is working to fix that.

I have noticed that there is a disportinate number of titles from companies that support both formats (Warner) that still have exclusive titles in only one format.

Does anybody know why (or have an educated guess) Warner has not completed their library on both formats?

The "other" media companies also tend to support HD-DVD at about twice the quantity.

The numbers...

Unique format title Quantity
Blu-Ray (Warner) 0
HD-DVD (Warner) 21
Blu-Ray (Other) 7
HD-DVD (Other) 20

Blu-Ray only titles (by Warner)
None

HD-DVD only titles (Warner)
Constantine W DL V 8.5 DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Perfect Storm W DL V 7.5 DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Dukes of Hazzard W DL V 8 DD+ EFS N 28.95
Enter the Dragon W DL V 8 DD+ EFS N 28.95
Caddyshack W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Troy W DL V DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Adventures of Robin Hood W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Dirty Dozen W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Grand Prix W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Terminator 3 W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Batman Begins W DL V DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Charlie & Chocolate Fact W DL V DTHD/DD+ EFS N 28.95
Polar Express W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Willy Wonka & Chocolate F W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Excalibur W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
V for Vendetta W DL V DTHD/DD N 28.95
Casablanca W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Forbidden Planet W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.99
Mutiny on the Bounty W DL V DD+ EFS N 28.95
Smallville: Fifth Season W 5DL V DD+ FS N 79.98
Poseidon W DC V DD+ EFS 34.95

Blu-Ray only titles (Other)
Bikini Dest.: Triple F. O SL M DTS/DD ES N 26.98
Bubble O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
Enron: the Smartest Guys O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
HDNet: Shuttle Discovery O SL M DTS/DD ES N 26.98
One Last Thing O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
War Within O SL M DTS/DD ES N 29.98
Legends of Jazz Showcase O SL M DTHD/PCM/DD N 34.98

HD-DVD only titles (Other)
Best of GetOut! Vol. 1 O M N 14.95
Best of GetOut! Vol. 2 O M N 14.95
Best of HD W. Rep. Vol. 1 O M N 14.95
Best of HD W. Rep. Vol. 2 O M N 14.95
One Six Right O SL M DD+ N 24.95
Cream: Royal Albert Hall O DTS N 29.99
Eagles: Farewell Tour 1 O PCM/DTS N 29.99
James Taylor: Musicares O PCM 19.99
Chronos O DL M DTMA/DD+ N 24.99
Chicago/Earth Wind & Fire O DD+ J N 24.99
Heart: Alive in Seattle O DTHD/DD+ J N 24.99
Manilow Live! O DTHD/DD+ J N 24.99
Derailed O DL A DD+ ES N 29.95
Matador O DL A DD+ ES N 29.95
Scary Movie 4 O DL A DD+ ES N 29.95
Wolf Creek O DL A DD+ EFS N 29.95
Clerks II O 2D
Lucky Number Slevin O
Pulse O
School for Scoundrels O A 29.95

The short answer is....Warner originally only supported HD DVD, they have since become neutral. Hence they are said to be trying to make up the difference in titles.

Didn't Warner convert to Blu-Ray (along with HD-DVD) around CES 2006, i.e. 3 months before the war started?

Didn't Warner convert to Blu-Ray (along with HD-DVD) around CES 2006, i.e. 3 months before the war started?


Earlier than that. It was in Fall 2005. Paramount went neutral about the same time.

Universal was also reported to be thinking about neutrality.

There were many reports that Toshiba and Sony were about to agree on a single format but this didn't happen. Many stories explain why.

There were many reports that Toshiba and Sony were about to agree on a single format but this didn't happen. Many stories explain why.

That's too bad... just think, this crap could have been avoided and we could all be here on one forum as a big happy family. In an alternate reality maybe.

That's too bad... just think, this crap could have been avoided and we could all be here on one forum as a big happy family. In an alternate reality maybe.In reality we would probably be paying a lot more for HD if a single format was resolved. The PS3 would also likely either not have come with BD, or be priced much higher. Competition moves things along quicker and at lower cost to consumers. Dual players will soon become the norm and nobody will even pay attention weather it is a blue or red case. They will just buy what they want and it will work.

Didn't Warner convert to Blu-Ray (along with HD-DVD) around CES 2006, i.e. 3 months before the war started?

it was mid 2005 or around there. But I think the point was more that HD DVD came out earlier and so even though during the remaining time HD DVD has released more BD titles then HD DVD it is still catching up on the BD side. It is not like it would have released all the titles that were previously released on HD DVD the first week of BD.

In reality we would probably be paying a lot more for HD if a single format was resolved. The PS3 would also likely either not have come with BD, or be priced much higher. Competition moves things along quicker and at lower cost to consumers. Dual players will soon become the norm and nobody will even pay attention weather it is a blue or red case. They will just buy what they want and it will work.

I agree, it's starting to look like the only way that HD can sweep up after itself and salvage this mess. All parties are way too deeply invested to bow out, so crawling into the same bed together may be the only solution.