I am currently looking at a good set of 5.1 speakers. My main concern is the front pair. I would of course prefer a nice set of floorstanding speakers for the fronts, but space is a big issue for me. It's hard to explain without showing a pic of my room (maybe I can post up a pic later tonight), but the way my TV room is setup, the TV is in the corner. On both sides of the TV are windows. I don't have so much of an issue with the left side, as there is about a foot between the end of the TV and window (plus a little space on the other side of the window), but on the right side, there is only about 5-6" from the end of the TV to the windowsill, and right on the other side of the window is the start of the brick fireplace mantle.

So I am not sure what setup would work the best. Satellites would work of course, which is what I have now, but most people seem to say to avoid this if possible. Bookshelf speakers may not work because they tend to be pretty boxy, and I don't think it will fit on the right side without blocking the window. Also, the top of my fireplace mantle is only deep enough to hold a satellite speaker, so it's not likely a bookshelf would fit there. So my question is are there any very thin floor standing speaker worth looking into? If not, can anyone suggest a good set of wall mountable speakers that actually sound good?

Thanks in advance!

move the tv

I have similar space restraints and have been look at the Paradigm Millenia 200's. I am sure there are others but I have heard these are pretty good.

http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/millenia/MilleniaSpecs.html

move the tv

Not possible at all. I've considered it, but if I move it anywhere else, the room layout would just be chaotic and cluttered. Either a window would be obstructed, or it would be in the way when walking through the room, or the seating arrangement would be awkward.

How high off the ground are the windows? If there's 2 feet of wall under them then consider the Klipsch Heresy III. It's only 23.81" high, but is designed to go on the floor. As a bonus, I think it also does well against a wall. (Most speakers like to be pulled out.) It's the cheapest (by far) speaker in Klipsch's Heritage range, which is their top-of-the-line range. It's a classic and has been around in one form or another for decades. A downside is that you'd probably have a hard time finding a match for them in a 5.1 system.

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/heresy-iii.aspx

The paradigms may actually fit. I'll have to keep that in mind for sure.

Also, those Klips's look like a good idea. The only thing is that I think the bottom of the windowsill is probably less than 2' from the ground, so the speaker would probably cut a tad into the window space.

But I am interested in those and would have to measure when i get home. Any suggestions on a good set of rears, center, and sub to go with those fronts?

Thanks!

Ok, here is a pic of my TV corner. Not a great pic, but you can see my space...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f109/ks1911shooter/Miscellaneous/DSC02167.jpg

As you can see, I have very little room on the right side for a decent sized speaker.

it is hard to tell from the picture but a question comes to mind
can you move the stand out about 6 inches and mount speakers, small ones, to the wall above the tv and have them sort of tilted down slightly? There appears to be room to fit some small speakers like HTD 3's, perhaps other similar sized small two ways?
good luck

Ever think of in-ceiling speakers?

it is hard to tell from the picture but a question comes to mind
can you move the stand out about 6 inches and mount speakers, small ones, to the wall above the tv and have them sort of tilted down slightly? There appears to be room to fit some small speakers like HTD 3's, perhaps other similar sized small two ways?
good luck

Yep, that's definitely a possibility. But I guess I was just wondering what options are good for smaller wall mounted speakers, since I was under the impression I should try to stick with some type of floorstanding ones if possible. Also, what are HTD 3's?

Ever think of in-ceiling speakers?
I thought about that too, but I'm not sure I want to do a "permanent" solution like that. Not only cause of all the work involved at first, but if anything needs to be changed or moved, it would be a pain.


Also, another question. I currently have an old Aiwa receiver (AV-X100), which I got in 1997. It does have Dolby Pro-Logic surround sound, but of course there are much better technologies now. My speakers are the Bose Acoustimas 7, which I know are probably average at best. Anyhow, I do want to have a richer and deeper sound. However, since I just got a TV, I can't really spend the money for speakers AND a new receiver. Which would y'all recommend to replace first for an improvement in sound?

Speakers first. Unless the receiver is just a total piece of junk.

Speakers first. Unless the receiver is just a total piece of junk.

What's considered a junky receiver? Back in 97, it was not bad for a $200 receiver, and does allow for 5 surround speakers, and a sub.

What's considered a junky receiver? Back in 97, it was not bad for a $200 receiver, and does allow for 5 surround speakers, and a sub.

If it has weak, cheap amps inside it will

1-blow your speakers.

or

2-overheat and shut itself down

Well, I wouldn't know if the receiver has enough crap potential for that to happen, but so far, neither of those has happened yet.

By the way, I just moved the TV and stand to the left a bit more (anymore and it won't look right). Anyhow, I got another couple inches on that side now, so it may be more possible for one of those long and thin floorstanding speakers now.

From the limited research I've done on the receiver. I would leave room in my budget for a new one. You can pick up some good quality receivers between $200 & $400 bucks.

This may not be what you want to hear. But part of the fun of this hobby is up-grading and building your system. :D :D :D

Marantz SR4001
Denon AVR-1907

You can find receivers like this between the price points I've mentioned.


Since you've moved the TV. Would something like the Ascend 340 with stands fit?

Dimensions H x W x D** 21" x 7.5" x 10.5"

www.ascendacoustics.com

The only problem I see if that the speakers will be so close together and not spread out. But it's better then what you had.

Also, those Klips's look like a good idea. The only thing is that I think the bottom of the windowsill is probably less than 2' from the ground, so the speaker would probably cut a tad into the window space.

But I am interested in those and would have to measure when i get home. Any suggestions on a good set of rears, center, and sub to go with those fronts?

Can't help you with center, rears, and sub. I've heard the Heresys only in a 2.0-channel music setup. From the photo you posted, you don't have 2' of space underneath the windows. Nevertheless, if I were in your situation I'd still consider the Heresys even if they came up a few inches into the windows. Do some measurements and see if it works for you. The advantage of the Heresys is that they're a real classic, much valued by audiophiles for many years. Also, there are lots of used Heresys around because they've been around for so many years in various forms. Finally, if you go this route you'll have the freedom to separate them more left-to-right, rather than cramming them right next to the TV. This could be a huge advantage.

But I'm a music guy, not a HT guy, so that's where all this is coming from. Keep in mind that the Heresy's big big big brother, the Klipschorn, is one of the most venerable and well respected loudspeakers ever.

By the way, for many years I've looked for an excuse to pick up a pair of Heresys, but I could never justify the venture with a compelling enough room/application. Maybe in the guest room....

How about wall-mounts (something like this (http://www.racksandstands.com/Sanus-WMS2b-SY0070.html)) on the wall near the edge of the window, holding bookshelf speakers forward and out a bit, so that they just barely encroach on the window when viewed from the front?

Advantages:
* you can use bookshelf speakers, rather than satellites
* no floor space is required
* you can get the speakers out in front of the plane of the TV
* since it is just the speaker hanging there, you can get maximum space between the speakers with a minimum of visual occlusion of the windows
* even though the speakers will be in front of the windows (if placed how I would place them), I don't think it will be that noticeable from the likely viewing angles of looking at the TV

The SVS SBS-01 and Hsu HB-1 bookshelf speakers come with threaded inserts on the back, which makes them very easy to wall mount. And really, you can attach the mount to just about any speaker by screwing into the cabinet. It doesn't hurt the sound (so long as you are careful not to drill into the crossover board!), but it does hurt the resale value.

You would need to drill into the walls, but it's just a couple of holes and they are easily filled. I had wall mounts in my old apartment (which I think said to NOT put any holes in the wall) and I still got 100% of my deposit back despite the fact that I didn't do anything to fill the holes. The damage is pretty minimal, and easy to repair if you need to.

-Max

For speaker's I would go for the Era Design 4's or the smaller ones if the budget is tight,you will be amazed at how big the sound is coming out out of the Era's and how refined and detailed it is. :)

How about having left/right speakers below windows, and point them upward towards listener's ear level where they will be sitting?

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. Some good ideas so far, and a lot more options for me to consider.

My wife told me that her parents never use their receiver (a Sony model that is a couple years newer than mine), so we can borrow theirs if we want. So that is an option. Still obsolete compared to today's tech, but maybe it'll be a slight improvement and tide us over for another year or two. The main issue with a receiver for me, is when I do get one, I want it to be something that's at least middle of the line, with HDMI switching, etc, but right now, I have to save for it. I don't want to get something that's on a budget now, only to regret not buying something else a couple years later.

I still cannot fit bigger floorstanding speakers next to the TV, even though I moved it over a couple inches. The reason is the depth of bigger speakers. It would cut into the TV or window too much. I don't mind some obstruction of the window, but I do have one concern...sunlight. I get a lot of sunlight in those rooms during the day, and I'm just wondering if direct sunlight on the speaker cabinet would be bad for it.

As far as the Heresy speakers, they do actually fit under the window on the right. It will bump up to the windowsill, but it won't cut into the actual window at all (which is exactly 24"). The other window is lower, but there is enough space on the floor between the window and TV for a speaker.

The bookshelf wall mount is also a good idea. Wow, the Hsu speakers look like a great value. Any suggestions on a center speaker and rears that I could match with the HB-1's, but are smaller? Especially the center, since I don't have a lot of room below the TV right now.

For speaker's I would go for the Era Design 4's or the smaller ones if the budget is tight,you will be amazed at how big the sound is coming out out of the Era's and how refined and detailed it is. :)


I second the ERA speakers. You might want to consider the ERA Design 4 or Design 5 bookshelves. I just got an ERA Design 4 center channel. It is $500 new but I found an open box one on the net for $300 shipped. For the size(less than 7 inches high and less than 7 inches deep) this is the best bang for your buck out there! The low end on these tiny speakers is absolutely stunning!

You can buy them at Audio Advice
http://www.audioadvice.com/

or

goodwinshighend
http://www.goodwinshighend.com/speaker.htm#era

I have dealt with both companies and they both have excellent customer service.

Here is their AVS forums thread. Dave from ERA will always answer any questions.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=488110

If small with big bass is what you need look no further than here.

http://www.signalpathint.com/framesetEra.htm

With the Eras, do I need to get the same exact pair for the rear?

Are there any guidelines as far as mixing and matching with sub, center, and rears?

With the Eras, do I need to get the same exact pair for the rear?

Are there any guidelines as far as mixing and matching with sub, center, and rears?

You can mix & match 4's & 5's . Sub 10 is more muscial, Sub 8 is more HT.
Sub 10 is not ported(quicker), Sub 8 is ported deeper bass for movies.

As mpgxsvcd said you can always go over the to ERA thread, ask a question.
David will usally answer in a couple of days. It's best to ask there.

:)

You can mix & match 4's & 5's . Sub 10 is more muscial, Sub 8 is more HT.
Sub 10 is not ported(quicker), Sub 8 is ported deeper bass for movies.

As mpgxsvcd said you can always go over the to ERA thread, ask a question.
David will usally answer in a couple of days. It's best to ask there.

:)

The nice salesmen at Audio Advice that demo’d them for me suggested a pair of Design 5’s for the mains, the design 4 center channel(That thing is tiny and fits my height and width requirements), and then possibly the Design 3’s as surrounds. They all use similar components so they should all be pretty well matched. The design 3’s are not as nice looking as the 4’s and 5’s but they are only $400 for the pair and they do a great job. I will probably go with 4’s for the mains, 3’s for the rear, and a B & W sub. The ERA subs are a bit pricey. I should be able to get the whole package for about $1650 because I was able to find the center channel for $300.

If small with big bass is what you need look no further than here.

http://www.signalpathint.com/framesetEra.htm
Where are their specs? :confused:

Where are their specs? :confused:


Post #21 in this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=488110

Post #21 in this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=488110
Maybe I am confused. I thought the claim was that the ERA satellites themselves were "small with big bass", so I wanted to see the specs on their bass response. All speakers have big bass when used with a sub.

Maybe I am confused. I thought the claim was that the ERA satellites themselves were "small with big bass", so I wanted to see the specs on their bass response. All speakers have big bass when used with a sub.

Maybe this will help?

http://www.signalpathint.com/PDF/HomeTheater-April06_Review.pdf

I was told that the Design 4’s go down to about 70 HZ and the Design 5’s get down into the 60’s. They sounded pretty good when I demo’d the Design 4’s and 5’s without a sub.

The nice salesmen at Audio Advice that demo’d them for me suggested a pair of Design 5’s for the mains, the design 4 center channel(That thing is tiny and fits my height and width requirements), and then possibly the Design 3’s as surrounds. They all use similar components so they should all be pretty well matched. The design 3’s are not as nice looking as the 4’s and 5’s but they are only $400 for the pair and they do a great job. I will probably go with 4’s for the mains, 3’s for the rear, and a B & W sub. The ERA subs are a bit pricey. I should be able to get the whole package for about $1650 because I was able to find the center channel for $300.The Era subs are more pricey for a reason they are outstanding and they have a lot of speed very very fast,lots Maggie guys use them,they are some of the most musical subs out there,a lot better than the B&W subs.

Maybe this will help?

http://www.signalpathint.com/PDF/HomeTheater-April06_Review.pdf

I was told that the Design 4’s go down to about 70 HZ and the Design 5’s get down into the 60’s. They sounded pretty good when I demo’d the Design 4’s and 5’s without a sub.Actually the Design 4s are rated: 60htz to 20khz -/+ 3 and the Design 5s are rated: 50htz to 20khz -/+3

The Era subs are more pricey for a reason they are outstanding and they have a lot of speed very very fast,lots Maggie guys use them,they are some of the most musical subs out there,a lot better than the B&W subs.

DOH! Don't tell me that ;) At least I limited my spending to the lowest grade B&W sub. If era ever gets a dealer in my neck of the woods I know I'll be tempted to upgrade :)

DOH! Don't tell me that ;) At least I limited my spending to the lowest grade B&W sub. If era ever gets a dealer in my neck of the woods I know I'll be tempted to upgrade :)
Don't let anything he tells you bother you. After all, he is incapable of recognizing quality when he hears it. :rolleyes:

Actually the Design 4s are rated: 60htz to 20khz -/+ 3 and the Design 5s are rated: 50htz to 20khz -/+3

I think the salesman was just being conservative with what he told me. He knew I had a sub also so there really isn't a huge need for 50 Hz for me since the sub should handle that range better than any speaker. He is a very knowledgeable and trust worthy person so I am sure he knew what the true specs were.

I saw the Design 5 speakers and one of the subs go for about $1250 on Ebay the other day. That is starting to sound like a steal to me now.

That's outright thievery if it's the Sub8 or sub10

I am not sure which sub this is but I don’t think this person really knew what a hot item they had.

http://cgi.*********/ERA-Design-5-Speakers-and-10-inch-Subwoofer_W0QQitemZ180074865222QQihZ008QQcategoryZ32861QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

I guess I was way off also. It was $1375 not $1250. :p

Don't let anything he tells you bother you. After all, he is incapable of recognizing quality when he hears it. :rolleyes:He's not bothered you idiot,he already knows the Era subs are superior to the B&W subs,cant you read?The truth hurts,but dont let it bother you B&W has never built good subs except for their high costing ones,but yet they cant compete with their competition. :p

I am not sure which sub this is but I don’t think this person really knew what a hot item they had.

http://cgi.*********/ERA-Design-5-Speakers-and-10-inch-Subwoofer_W0QQitemZ180074865222QQihZ008QQcategoryZ32861QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

I guess I was way off also. It was $1375 not $1250. :pHe could'nt have. :)

I think the salesman was just being conservative with what he told me. He knew I had a sub also so there really isn't a huge need for 50 Hz for me since the sub should handle that range better than any speaker. He is a very knowledgeable and trust worthy person so I am sure he knew what the true specs were.These specs are published.

These specs are published.

I might have miss-quoted him. He is the expert not me. He might have said 50’s for the 5’s and 60’s for the 4’s. I thought he said 60’s and 70’s though. He might have been referring to the fact that they don’t roll off until the 60’s and 70’s. Yes they are rated down to the 50’s and 60’s but there is some roll off there.

Actually the Design 4s are rated: 60htz to 20khz -/+ 3 and the Design 5s are rated: 50htz to 20khz -/+3


Where did this spec come from? I could not find this anywhere.

I might have miss-quoted him. He is the expert not me. He might have said 50’s for the 5’s and 60’s for the 4’s. I thought he said 60’s and 70’s though. He might have been referring to the fact that they don’t roll off until the 60’s and 70’s. Yes they are rated down to the 50’s and 60’s but there is some roll off there.I wouldn't worry about it to much they have plenty of bass,infact they have impact and slam that will put most floorstanders in this pricerange to shame,they are extremely dynamic. :)

Where did this spec come from? I could not find this anywhere.Go to www.6moons.com and check out their review,Era has changed their website since I last viewed it,and I have the Steroephile that says what the Design 4s FR is.