I just bought a 42" Plasma (pannasonic - TH42PX60U). I have asked alot of people if they think 1080i or 720p is better and I have gotton very mixed answers. I think 720p looks better to my eye on my TV. What are some other opinions?

I aways prefer viewing 1080i with my equipment and Cable provider. 720P stations rarely seem to have the same quality...usually it is very obvious. Only sports like Football games seem to approach what I get with 1080i. Also there seems to be something of an HD-Lite phenomena out there with some broadcasters as well as providers which seems most apparent (to my eyes) with 720P channels. YMMV.

I have both and have spent a lot of time adjusting my sets and I actually prefer 720P. Hard to tell much difference in my opinion.

I just bought a 42" Plasma (pannasonic - TH42PX60U). I have asked alot of people if they think 1080i or 720p is better and I have gotton very mixed answers. I think 720p looks better to my eye on my TV. What are some other opinions?

If 720p looks better to you then why ask for other opinions? You are the one that will be watching the set, not "others".

kind of a cliche, but I prefer 720p for fast moving content such as sports, and 1080i for slow moving content. Of course, I don't have a tv (only 720 front projector), so I'm basing this purely off experience on other peoples TVs which I'm sure were not calibrated or adjusted at all.

Like most 42" plasmas the pannasonic - TH42PX60U is 1024x786 native. There is no reason to force 1080i input unless the content was mastered in 1080. In MOST situations 720P will result in the least amount of scaling and therefore should result in a better picture.

Like most 42" plasmas the pannasonic - TH42PX60U is 1024x786 native. There is no reason to force 1080i input unless the content was mastered in 1080. In MOST situations 720P will result in the least amount of scaling and therefore should result in a better picture.

In MOST situations, 720p will result in the GREATEST amount of processing since the majority of HD channels are broadcast as 1080i. If the OP sets an STB at 720 he 'forces' the STB (if one is used) to deinterlace and scale 1080i signals to 720p. Once this 720p reaches his set, the set will have to again scale the signal to 768. "If" he "forces" 1080i the STB will pass the majority of HD directly to his set where it will be deinterlaced and scaled to 768 for display. One less process (scaling) when 1080i is selected as the input.

Granted, for those HD signals that are 720p there is more processing required but again, the majority of HD is broadcast as 1080i.

The decision is really where does the OP want the 1080i deinterlaced and scaled, in the STB or his TV. "Normally" the tv will do a better job.

Change the output of the STB depending on the broadcast. Some boxes, like my DTiVo box will let me do this easily. Better yet, if your box lets you send "pass-through" you can set it and forget it.

720p - ABC, FOX, ESPN
1080i - CBS, NBC, PBS, HBO, HDNET

Change the output of the STB depending on the broadcast. Some boxes, like my DTiVo box will let me do this easily. Better yet, if your box lets you send "pass-through" you can set it and forget it.

720p - ABC, FOX, ESPN
1080i - CBS, NBC, PBS, HBO, HDNET

I have a motorola STB (dct6200)...where would I go to set up this "pass-through"?

I have a motorola STB (dct6200)...where would I go to set up this "pass-through"?

The Moto boxes do not allow 'pass through'.

As a test, go to a station known to be broadcasting in 720p. Switch your STB between 720p and 1080i output and see if you notice a difference. Go with whichever you think provides the better picture. I leave mine set at 1080i. It works fine.

1080i lookes better to me on my panny 42px50. More detailed. 720p looks soft. I can always tell the resolution before looking at the STB.

I guess I am a moron, but on my Pioneer PDP-4271HD I cannot find a place to select 720p or 1080i. I just went through the manual again with no success.

Plus, if I am on digital cable, are the signals on the different channels different or does the cable company (SuddenLink)use one format?

I guess I am a moron, but on my Pioneer PDP-4271HD I cannot find a place to select 720p or 1080i. I just went through the manual again with no success.

Plus, if I am on digital cable, are the signals on the different channels different or does the cable company (SuddenLink)use one format?You cannot change your TV's resolution. It is always going to be 1024 X 768, therefore if you send your tv a 720 or 1080 resolution, it will always convert it to 768.
EDIT: To be clear, you don't select 720 or 1080 in the settings for the Pioneer. You select 720 or 1080 output in the settings for your cable box.

Different stations broadcast different resolutions. Best picture is usually achieved by outputting from the cable box the same resolution the tv station is sending and let your Pioneer convert the resolution to 768. You'll need to read your cable box manual or look online for the manual to learn how to change the output. If you find that you can set your output to "pass through", that's what you want to do.

Read my post #8 above for the output resolutions.

Granted, for those HD signals that are 720p there is more processing required but again, the majority of HD is broadcast as 1080i.

The decision is really where does the OP want the 1080i deinterlaced and scaled, in the STB or his TV. "Normally" the tv will do a better job.I think there should be more to the decision than just where do you want the 1080i signal converted. How to handle 720p should be just as much of the decision as 1080i is. I do agree that there are more 1080i broadcasts than 720p. I also need to point out that there is yet an extra step when outputting a 720p signal at 1080i.


So some of the newcomers fully understand what is happening with conversions:

When setting the output to match the signal

720p signal > TV > scale > 768......................................................... ......(1 processing step)
1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > scale > 768...........................................(2 processing steps)


When converting the output to a resolution other than original

720p signal > interlace > scale > 1080i > TV > de-interlace > scale > 768.......(4 processing steps)
1080i signal > de-interlace > scale > 720p > TV > scale > 768......................(3 processing steps)


As one can see, if you output the original signal resolution to the tv there will be less signal processing done.

If you choose to select only one output resolution:

720p output = 1 step for 720p signal, 3 steps for 1080i signal
1080i output = 2 steps for 1080i signal, 4 steps for 720p signal


I change my output to match the signal for less processing. Others prefer to set-it and forget-it which works well for them.
Now the choice is up to you how you want to handle your signal.

Kr8z1 is correct that there is less processing for a 720p input displayed on a 768p display. I have checked both 720p and 1080i from my STB and I found no real benefit switching my cable box each time I changed a channel. So I stick with 1080i to match the majority of channels I view.

BTW, there are more than only a few more 1080i than 720p stations. Let's update the list a bit (not all inclusive -these are stations available in my area)

720p - ESPN, ABC, FOX, National Geographic, My Network TV

1080i - CBS, NBC, PBS, NFL Network, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, The Movie Channel, Starz, INHD, TNT, Encore, Bravo, Discovery, HDnet, The CW, Discovery HD Theater, Golf Channel, iN Demand, NBA TV, The History Channel,

Yeah, I was thinking about this after I went to bed. 1080i broadcasts can increase depending on what service provider a person chooses and what channel lineup people subscribe to. Especially if you add Movie, Sports packs, and Expanded service packages the number of 1080i stations increase dramatically.

I still contend that 720p stations can look better when output at 720p. This may not be everyone's preference for setup or may not provide a benefit as in Nmlobo's case. Where I see an obvious difference is on the ESPN ticker. I've found that when output at 1080i the ticker tends to lag a bit or become jagged/ghosting. I don't see it continuously, but often. It may be that the ticker speeds up at times which causes this. When I output 720p it clears up. This proves to me that either fast movement such as sports are better at 720p resolution and/or the the extra processing done when outputting a 720p signal at 1080i degrades the picture.

Nmlobo - if you wouldn't mind, out of curiosity, could you check this on ESPN? I'm not trying to convince you to my side, just really curious if others experience this too. I know of one other fellow 1540 owner who has experienced this. Also, what tv do you have?

FOXSports wrote an interesting article on sports and 720p vs 1080i:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/2238972


BTW, Universal HD replaced Bravo HD. I am not finding anything on Encore, Golf Channel, and History Channel being broadcast in HD. Can you verify you are getting HD from them, or do you possibly have an old list? I did read History Channel will go HD sometime in '07, I haven't been able to verify whether it has gone live yet.

Something I've been wanting to do, and since this discussion, I started a thread listing HD stations and their output resolutions. If anyone is interested in looking or can help add to or modify the list, please let me know. Thanks.

HD stations list - 720p and 1080i (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9698834#post9698834)

I just bought a 42" Plasma (pannasonic - TH42PX60U). I have asked alot of people if they think 1080i or 720p is better and I have gotton very mixed answers. I think 720p looks better to my eye on my TV. What are some other opinions?


Honestly, does anything matter beyond what I put in bold above? If 720p looks better to you, then that is all that matters. After all, you are watching the set, not us :)

While 720p and 1080i are close in quality on a 720p(768p) display, I think plasma owners will notice the benefit of those high speed camera sources.

So some of the newcomers fully understand what is happening with conversions:

When setting the output to match the signal

720p signal > TV > scale > 768......................................................... ......(1 processing step)
1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > scale > 768...........................................(2 processing steps)


When converting the output to a resolution other than original

720p signal > interlace > scale > 1080i > TV > de-interlace > scale > 768.......(4 processing steps)
1080i signal > de-interlace > scale > 720p > TV > scale > 768......................(3 processing steps)

As one can see, if you output the original signal resolution to the tv there will be less signal processing done. If you choose to select only one output resolution:

720p output = 1 step for 720p signal, 3 steps for 1080i signal
1080i output = 2 steps for 1080i signal, 4 steps for 720p signal

I change my output to match the signal for less processing. Others prefer to set-it and forget-it which works well for them.Now the choice is up to you how you want to handle your signal.

This is outstanding. Thank you.

Yeah, I was thinking about this after I went to bed. 1080i broadcasts can increase depending on what service provider a person chooses and what channel lineup people subscribe to. Especially if you add Movie, Sports packs, and Expanded service packages the number of 1080i stations increase dramatically.

I still contend that 720p stations can look better when output at 720p. This may not be everyone's preference for setup or may not provide a benefit as in Nmlobo's case. Where I see an obvious difference is on the ESPN ticker. I've found that when output at 1080i the ticker tends to lag a bit or become jagged/ghosting. I don't see it continuously, but often. It may be that the ticker speeds up at times which causes this. When I output 720p it clears up. This proves to me that either fast movement such as sports are better at 720p resolution and/or the the extra processing done when outputting a 720p signal at 1080i degrades the picture.

Nmlobo - if you wouldn't mind, out of curiosity, could you check this on ESPN? I'm not trying to convince you to my side, just really curious if others experience this too. I know of one other fellow 1540 owner who has experienced this. Also, what tv do you have?

FOXSports wrote an interesting article on sports and 720p vs 1080i:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/2238972

BTW, Universal HD replaced Bravo HD. I am not finding anything on Encore, Golf Channel, and History Channel being broadcast in HD. Can you verify you are getting HD from them, or do you possibly have an old list? I did read History Channel will go HD sometime in '07, I haven't been able to verify whether it has gone live yet.

I own a JVC LT-40FH96

I could debate that what you see (jagged edges/ghosting) could be the result of poor interlacing/scaling by your STB or poor deinterlacing/scaling by your tv. You are correct that anytime a signal is processed it opens the door for more artifacts/errors. A good video processor should properly deinterlace and compensate for motion. If this is done correctly you should not notice jagged edges or ghosting.

Thank you. I've read that article before. The Super Bowl was broadcast in 1080i and it seemed perfect to me!

I will check out ESPN HD on both 720p and 1080i. I did once before and did not notice a difference but I will try it again.

I was out of date with Encore. They ceased broadcasting HD in 2005. Mea culpa

Here is a listing of many HD channels and their transmission preference (720p / 1080i)
http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5119938-1.html

This link will give you a listing for the GolF Channel HD (near the bottom)
http://www.hdsportsguide.com/

"The History Channel has since expanded into many other channels, most recently as History Channel HD which was launched on October 26, 2006."
http://tviv.org/History_Channel

Sorta off thread... But the superbowl broadcast just torqed me off. If you're going to pay the money for HighDef cameras, spend a little extra money and buy some lens cleaners as well. Watching the fuzzy line of scrimage durring the game drove me absolutly insane.

-Joel

Sorta off thread... But the superbowl broadcast just torqed me off. If you're going to pay the money for HighDef cameras, spend a little extra money and buy some lens cleaners as well. Watching the fuzzy line of scrimage durring the game drove me absolutly insane.

-Joel

Yeah...that was pathetic to let the rain impact the lenses like that. :rolleyes:
Almost thought I was watching an LCD Tv. ;)

There is a huge difference between 1 smear, switch camera, clean, switch back to camera, and the *SAME* smear on an entire possession. :)


-Joel

I really cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080i set on my DCT6200 for HD Channels, My TV is a 1080p (Aquos 37d90u), since I can't tell the difference I guess it doesnt matter but which output would require less scaling etc on a 1080p tv?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I would think the TV would handle the signal better if it were fed 1080i and let it do its thing versus being fed 720p correct? What is the 1080p tv scaling version of the example listed above for the 1024x768 tv?

I have a Panasonic 50PX60U and was bummed about how my OTA antenna looked so much better than my STB (Motorola), it was much sharper...

well, after reading this thread and figuring out how to change my STB output from the default 720p to 1080i (pressing menu when the box is off), I get the same quality results out of my STB. :D

I found that the picture is so much crisper at 1080i (on my panel)... Now I just have to wait for some content I know is 720p and see if I notice the difference between the two.

All in all, its up to you and what you think looks good. I'm a NUT when it comes to a crisp picture... it annoys my wife to no end when I am constantly switching inputs / feeds looking for the best picture during whatever primetime HD we may be watching. :p

Yeah...that was pathetic to let the rain impact the lenses like that. :rolleyes:
Almost thought I was watching an LCD Tv. ;)

Yeah...because on a plasma, it's hard to tell the difference between the raindrops and the picture... ;)

Yeah...because on a plasma, it's hard to tell the difference between the raindrops and the picture... ;)

The reason I said almost is that I could tell there was an issue and on the LCD it would just look pretty normal...motion blur and smearing. :p

The reason I said almost is that I could tell there was an issue and on the LCD it would just look pretty normal...motion blur and smearing. :p

Motion blur? Smearing? Dude, it's not 2003 anymore...I have NO motion blur or smearing on my Mitsu LCD set...NONE...you're more than welcome to come over and watch it if you don't believe me. :cool:

I really cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080i set on my DCT6200 for HD Channels, My TV is a 1080p (Aquos 37d90u), since I can't tell the difference I guess it doesnt matter but which output would require less scaling etc on a 1080p tv?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I would think the TV would handle the signal better if it were fed 1080i and let it do its thing versus being fed 720p correct? What is the 1080p tv scaling version of the example listed above for the 1024x768 tv?Short answer to which output will require less scaling - For a 720p signal, use 720p output. For a 1080i signal, use 1080i output.


Even if you have a 1080p tv, I would still change the output resolution to match the original signal resolution so there will be less signal processing taking place.


Here is what changes to the illustration below when going from a 768p set to a 1080p set - When watching a 1080i broadcast output at 1080i, there is 1 less scaling step taking place on a 1080p set (1 processing step) than on a 768p set (2 processing steps). If you were to leave the output on 1080i at all times, there is one less scaling step taking place while watching a 720p source on a 1080p set (3 processing steps) than on a 768p set (4 processing steps).


The conversions would look like this on a 1080p panel:

When setting the output to match the signal

720p signal > TV > scale > 1080p....................................................... ........(1 processing step)
1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > 1080p......................................................( 1 processing step)


When converting the output to a resolution other than original

720p signal > interlace > scale > 1080i > TV > de-interlace > 1080p.................(3 processing steps)
1080i signal > de-interlace > scale > 720p > TV > scale > 1080p......................(3 processing steps)


As one can see, if you output the original signal resolution to the tv there will be less signal processing done.

If you choose to select only one output resolution:

720p output = 1 step for 720p signal, 3 steps for 1080i signal
1080i output = 1 step for 1080i signal, 3 steps for 720p signal

Short answer to which output will require less scaling - For a 720p signal, use 720p output. For a 1080i signal, use 1080i output.


Even if you have a 1080p tv, I would still change the output resolution to match the original signal resolution so there will be less signal processing taking place.


Here is what changes to the illustration below when going from a 768p set to a 1080p set - If you were to leave the output on 1080i at all times, there is one less scaling step taking place while watching a 720p source on a 1080p set (3 processing steps) than on a 768p set (4 processing steps).

If you were to set-it and forget-it:
From the illustration below, it would follow that outputting a 720p signal at all times will require less processing than outputting a 1080i signal at all times - but as Nmlobo has been pointing out above, in reality you can't just go by the numbers. This is all dependent on your viewing habits.

Outputting 1080i at all times may be better if most of your viewing is of a 1080i source. If you watch an even mix of 720p and 1080i source material, then the numbers show that setting to 720p output would create less processing overall.


The conversions would look like this on a 1080p panel:

When setting the output to match the signal

720p signal > TV > scale > 1080p....................................................... ........(1 processing step)
1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > scale > 1080p...........................................(2 processing steps)


When converting the output to a resolution other than original

720p signal > interlace > scale > 1080i > TV > de-interlace > 1080p.................(3 processing steps)
1080i signal > de-interlace > scale > 720p > TV > scale > 1080p......................(3 processing steps)


As one can see, if you output the original signal resolution to the tv there will be less signal processing done.

If you choose to select only one output resolution:

720p output = 1 step for 720p signal, 3 steps for 1080i signal
1080i output = 2 steps for 1080i signal, 3 steps for 720p signal


Thanks alot dude :) im gonna try leaving at 720p and see how it looks since its "set-it-and-forget-it" less processing ;P

The conversions would look like this on a 1080p panel:

When setting the output to match the signal

720p signal > TV > scale > 1080p....................................................... ........(1 processing step)
1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > scale > 1080p...........................................(2 processing steps)

Why do you believe a 1080i input to a 1080p set requires scaling? After deinterlacing, the 1080i signal is already at the correct resolution, 1080p. If you meant to address over scan, that can be defeated on many sets and should not be a factor in this discussion. Unless a set fails to properly deinterlace 1080i, the 1080i line should read:

1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > 1080p...........................................(1 processing step)

Thanks alot dude :) im gonna try leaving at 720p and see how it looks since its "set-it-and-forget-it" less processing ;P

The “less processing” depends upon which type HD signal (720p or 1080i) you watch most. You wrote that your display was 1080p. If it is, and if the majority of your viewing is 1080i (majority of HDTV broadcasts), leaving your stb set at 720p means you are betting that the stb has a better video processor than your TV - possible but doubtful.

If you mostly watch 720p stations then set the stb to 720p. If you watch mostly 1080i, then set the stb to 1080i.

Using Kr8z1's format: with a 1080p display, if you set your stb to always output 720p,

720p input signal > TV > up-scale* to 1080p ....…..1 processing step
1080i input signal > deinterlace > down-scale** to 720p > TV > up-scale* 720p to 1080p . . . 3 processing steps

If you set the stb to output 1080i,

720p input signal > interlace >up-scale* to 1080i > TV > de-interlace > 1080p.................(3 processing steps)
1080i input signal > TV > de-interlace > 1080p...........................................(1 processing step)

* new data created (interpolated)
**data is ‘tossed away’

I recommend that you leave the STB set to output 1080i – if you plan to leave it alone. Here is why.

Leaving the STB set at 720p could result with a poorer picture when viewing a 1080i source since original data is lost in the STB and new data is created in the TV’s processor.

Leaving the STB set to 1080i, no data is lost and data is created only when viewing a 720p source.

With both cases, data has to be ‘created’ for a 720p signal being displayed on a 1080p panel.

Why do you believe a 1080i input to a 1080p set requires scaling? After deinterlacing, the 1080i signal is already at the correct resolution, 1080p. If you meant to address over scan, that can be defeated on many sets and should not be a factor in this discussion. Unless a set fails to properly deinterlace 1080i, the 1080i line should read:

1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > 1080p...........................................(1 processing step)You are correct. I had a weird feeling I was missing something when I did a copy paste then update. :) I'm going to go back and fix it now.

Thanks alot dude :) im gonna try leaving at 720p and see how it looks since its "set-it-and-forget-it" less processing ;PKromix,
I'm sorry while editing my previous illustration to address a 1080p set, I overlooked the conversion
1080i signal > TV > de-interlace > 1080p......................................................( 1 processing step)
and left an extra scaling step in there.

This changes my equation a good bit. Read Nmlobo's analysis as he makes good points on lost and created data.

Sorry again for the confusion. :rolleyes:

Motion blur? Smearing? Dude, it's not 2003 anymore...I have NO motion blur or smearing on my Mitsu LCD set...NONE...you're more than welcome to come over and watch it if you don't believe me. :cool:

Well..I was having some fun at your expense but while I do realize that LCD Tv's have improved much over the last few years, let's not imply that they are at plasma levels.
I do need to see this set of yours since it does seem to get good ratings but just like the Aquos and Bravia models.....these are NO daisies compared to a good plasma.

There is a huge difference between 1 smear, switch camera, clean, switch back to camera, and the *SAME* smear on an entire possession. :)


-Joel

Yeah, it's like CBS Sports is trying to video the SuperBowl on the cheap, and not providing backup cameras for situations that require it. I knew a guy who retired from CBS Sports that was doing the lighting for large stadium events & football games. He told me several years ago about CBS Sports decline in quality lighting of events and apparently this has now migrated down to the actual filming too.

Not to beat a dead horse but it seems to me that things are even worse doing
720p->Box->1080i->TV(1080p)

720p input signal > interlace would cause a fair amount of data loss as half of each frame has to be thrown away to give 720i. This actually contans less data than 480p.
So first we throw half the data away and then we recreate an another half (1080i has twice as many pixels as 720i.) and then another half again to output on a 1080p display!!! 3/4 of the signal is "made-up."
When doing 1080i->1080p or 720p>1080p "only" half the signal is made up.

Not to beat a dead horse but it seems to me that things are even worse doing
720p->Box->1080i->TV(1080p)

720p input signal > interlace would cause a fair amount of data loss as half of each frame has to be thrown away to give 720i. This actually contans less data than 480p.
So first we throw half the data away and then we recreate an another half (1080i has twice as many pixels as 720i.) and then another half again to output on a 1080p display!!! 3/4 of the signal is "made-up."
When doing 1080i->1080p or 720p>1080p "only" half the signal is made up. A STB may have a pass through mode where all inputs are passed directly to the TV where 720p is uprez'd to 1080p for display. None of the original data is lost.

If a STB did as you suggest, it would be tossing every other 720p frame, upscaling the remaining frame to 1080p/30 and then creating two fields off the same frame. This would result in jerky motion. What is done (if the box handles the signal properly) is that the 720p is upscaled to 1080 and then interlaced - it is not transformed to "720i" and no data is "thrown away". 33% of the displayed picture is "made up", NOT 75%.

When going 1080i -> 1080p NONE of the display is made up. The first 1080i field is held in the tvs buffer, when the next field arrives, the two fields are weaved/blended etc. and a complete 1080p frame is displayed.

720p -> 1080p 1/3 of the display is from extrapolated data.

When going 1080i -> 1080p NONE of the display is made up. The first 1080i field is held in the tvs buffer, when the next field arrives, the two fields are weaved/blended etc. and a complete 1080p frame is displayed.



When going from 1080i(Film) to 1080p you can get a complete image, with 1080i(video) you can as long as NOTHING is moving, really you end up with a image between 540 and 1080 and some scaling, line doubling is needed.

Very few TVs can do Video deinterlacing well and very very few can do Film at all.

I have both my cable box and my upconverting DVD player set to 720p for my 42" Vizio Plasma.

Compared several times and it seemed better than 1080i to my eyes, and makes sense since it is doing less scaling.

I have both my cable box and my upconverting DVD player set to 720p for my 42" Vizio Plasma.

Compared several times and it seemed better than 1080i to my eyes, and makes sense since it is doing less scaling.Your configuration can result with more scaling (unless you watch all 720p channels). The majority of HD is transmitted in 1080i.

You are betting that the cable box has a better video processor/scaler than your HDTV (not normally the case). With your setup, your cable box has to deinterlace the 1080i signal and then downscale the deinterlaced 1080p to 720p. This 720p is sent to your TV which then scales the signal to 768. If you set the cable box to 1080i then those signals will be passed directly to your tv which will then deinterlace and scale. One less scaling step.

You are correct that there is one less scaling required for a 720p signal.

When going from 1080i(Film) to 1080p you can get a complete image, with 1080i(video) you can as long as NOTHING is moving, really you end up with a image between 540 and 1080 and some scaling, line doubling is needed.

Very few TVs can do Video deinterlacing well and very very few can do Film at all. The 720p/1080i issue has little to do with a users tv - it is the signal. Most HDTV is transmitted as 1080i. This means that no matter what native resolution our sets boast, they will have to deinterlace most signals. The quality of what we see depends on the processor's deinterlacing/scaling capability.

We are stuck with the signal sent by the broadcaster (720p or 1080i). How well a set handles these signals is the key. Video processing has improved significantly over the past couple of years. Many new sets properly deinterlace and perform 2:3 pulldown. Many have implemented adaptive motion algorithms.

"Visual artifacts such as jaggies can be avoided with sophisticated diagonal filtering that reconstructs some of the lost data at the edges of moving objects. In addition, the human visual system is less sensitive to detail in fast-moving objects, so a slight loss of detail in these objects is not generally noticeable." http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1205gear/

If you want to be on the safe side, pickup a set manufactured by JVC, Pioneer, or Hitachi. These sets have demonstrated an ability to properly deinterlace and perform 2-3 pulldown. They should handle film well. http://hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

Plain line doubling, which does just as it says, is the most basic form of scaling and is not the norm. Most newer sets will implement a bob and weave procedure and will implement some motion adaptive/compensation algorithms.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

Same link as yours it shows 80% failed film, 55% failed video

If you have a test that shows this years TVs do better then the 06s I would love to see it. I love when someone says "newer" sets.

Here is a member with a 12K set and the only way he got a "clean" image was to use a VP50

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=808958&page=2&pp=60

By the why bob IS line doubling:

"Line doubling takes the lines of each interlaced frames (consisting of only even or odd lines) and doubles them, filling the entire frame. This results in the video having effectively half the vertical resolution, scaled to the full resolution. While this prevents mouse teeth, it causes a noticeable reduction in picture quality. This technique is also called bob deinterlacing, because the fields are bobbed up and down."

If a set is using bob and weave you ARE NOT getting 1080 but some where in-between 540 and 1080

I have both my cable box and my upconverting DVD player set to 720p for my 42" Vizio Plasma.

Compared several times and it seemed better than 1080i to my eyes, and makes sense since it is doing less scaling.

Yours eyes are good, I saw a review (will try to find it for you) that says Vizio does a simple bob for its "deinterlaceing" so you end up with 540 scaled to the native res.

Sorry dmaul1114 the Vizio does not only do bob but it has a hard time detecting Film for the 3:2 pulldown, my mistake. On the plus side it does a excellent job with 720, don't laugh some TVs don't.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

Same link as yours it shows 80% failed film, 55% failed video I guess the context of my reference was not clear to you. I provided a source that identified three manufacturer's whose sets passed the tests and properly deinterlace and 3-2 pulldown.

If you have a test that shows this years TVs do better then the 06s I would love to see it. I love when someone says "newer" sets. the best test of all. My own eyes and the lack of comment/complaints on this issue from purchasers of the newer sets.

Here is a member with a 12K set and the only way he got a "clean" image was to use a VP50

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=808958&page=2&pp=60 I am the owner of a 3k set that has an excellent disply, properly deinterlaces and performs 3-2 pulldown. Sorry the other member spent so much for a set with a turkey of a video processor.

By the why bob IS line doubling:

"Line doubling takes the lines of each interlaced frames (consisting of only even or odd lines) and doubles them, filling the entire frame. This results in the video having effectively half the vertical resolution, scaled to the full resolution. While this prevents mouse teeth, it causes a noticeable reduction in picture quality. This technique is also called bob deinterlacing, because the fields are bobbed up and down."

If a set is using bob and weave you ARE NOT getting 1080 but some where in-between 540 and 1080 By the way, READ what I wrote. I never claimed bob was not line doubling. I wrote that "plain line doubling" was the basic - many newer sets go beyond and combine bob with weave, and motion adaptation / compensation.

The page you quoted contained the same thought I tried to express: "The best deinterlacers combine all of the methods mentioned above. The fields are bobbed, so the framerate is then kept. Motion compensation is done. In the areas that it cannot find a motion match, it falls back on selective blending. The best deinterlacers also determine whether video material contain a 3:2 pulldown sequence in the case of film material, and automatically do a reverse telecine instead of the above deinterlacing techniques. This operation is made automatic in modern deinterlacers, depending on whether the video is currently film-source or not, by automatically detecting for the presence of a 3:2 pulldown sequence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing

Here is an interesting article on the subject. http://www.embedded.com/rss/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199901984&cid=RSSfeed_embedded_news

I don't know why but on local HD channels that are Fox or ABC the picture when viewed on my Panasonic TH-50PX60U(768p) is just a millionth of one hair better with my Dish vip622 set to output 720p instead of 1080i.

ESPN and ESPN2 are visually much better when set to 720p than 1080i.

Do HD local channels over satellite always look worse than HD OTA locals or HD premium channels?

Do HD local channels over satellite always look worse than HD OTA locals or HD premium channels?Yes this is usually the case. Satellite companies compress the signal much, much more than OTA signals are compressed.

I have Internet FIOS now and am waiting for FIOS TV.
I want to see what FIOS 720p and 1080i can do.
I did not like hearing that DTV is FIOS Tv's SOURCE!
Yikes! :eek: