I'm a noob here, and this is my first post, so please be kind... :D

I'm trying to understand the differences among DVD players and what benefits they give you for the different price points they list at. I've done a lot of reading on here over the last few weeks as well as a lot of searching... so please forgive me if my questions have been answered before. I may just not be very good at searching. Anyway, hopefully everyone here can help me.

Once I upgrade my system, the DVD player will be hooked up to a Sony 70in SXRD RPTV and possibly a stand alone Video Processor. The Audio side will be hooked up to a McIntosh A/V Pre-Pro.

I'm trying to understand what the benefits of a premium DVD player are vs a budget one. Specifically, if I should consider a McIntosh MVP-871, Denon DVD-5910CI, DVD-3930CI, or Pioneer DV-79AVi over an Oppo DV-981HD. What do the flagship Denon (MSRP $3800) or Pioneer (MSRP $1000) players give you over the budget Oppo? From everything I've read, the Oppos seem to have near perfect video quality. Is there any reason to buy a more expensive player if it will never be used for anything other than SD DVDs? What am I missing here?

I understand with the McIntosh, Denon, and Pioneer's you should expect a much better internal D/A converter for listening to CD's and I'm sure the other components including the power supply and transport are better as well... but does any of that really matter on SD DVD audio? If a DVD player is hooked up via Optical or HDMI to a PreAmp/Processor... won't the top of the line Denon and the budget Oppo sound the same since you're not using the player's D/A converters but rather the PreAmp/Processor's D/A converter? Does this hold true for both DVDs in DD 5.1 and in Stereo?

If a Video Processor is thrown into the mix, doesn't that further negate the differences between the players since the player is no longer having to upscale or process the image?

Basically I'm trying to understand what (if anything) the extra money buys you once you get past the Oppo level. For the cost of the Oppo, I could buy a dedicated CD/SACD player instead of having to use an all in one player such as the McIntosh or flagship Denon. I'm just worried that the audio quality of DVDs in 5.1 or Stereo would suffer.

If you've taken the time to read all this and choose to answer... thanks for helping a noob out! ;)

I would not waste money on a "premium" DVD player when HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is probably in your immediate future. The Toshiba A2 or A20 does cost more than a basic DVD player, but they display SD DVDs upscaled in an outstanding fashion, and also offer very high resolution audio. They don't play DVD-Audio or SACD but IMO those formats are highly overrated and not worth the money. Those who have seen the Toshiba XA-2 ($800) have said it is the best DVD player they have seen at any price, even on SD DVDs. That is about as premium as I would go. Otherwise, money spent for a premium SD DVD player is better spent on a good video processor, IMO.

The main reason for a Denon 3930 is for critical music listening, i.e., to enjoy SACD and DVD-A. For pure movie watching, I'd go Toshiba HD-DVD, or to save $$, Oppo.

With the jack you dropped on the rest of that set-up, why are you even questioning this? Get the Toshiba A2 for HD-DVD and a PS3 for Blueray.

Wow, I wish I had to make that choice.

It sounds like you have a little money to play with, given that your talking 70 inch SXRD and video processor as well as a 5910CI.

If that TV is a Qualia 006, I think that the 5910CI (or anything that puts out 1080p) is a waste, because I don't think that TV accepts 1080p. If you have a newer SXRD, I think they all accept 1080p. Otherwise a 5910 rather than a 5910CI is fine.

I'm a real believer that you get what you pay for. Unless it's a DVD player. Some of the reviews that I read on $10,000 DVD players are not always great. But the 5910CI is not one of those. I've never heard of anything negative. If anything, it might be a consensus that it's reference quality. That's not to put down the Oppo. But just read the reviews on the 5910CI. There differences in opinion will probably focus on whether it's worth the money.

And I don't think it's a waste, especially if you have a significant library of regular DVD titles.

On the other hand, if you're using a quality outboard processor, even if it's not quite as good as what's in the 5910CI, it should be close enough. Diminishing returns.

For my 60 inch XBR1, I'm using a Denon 3910 which is SDI modified to feed a DVDO VP30 with upgraded deinterlacer. And that is in addition to my BluRay, PS3, HD-DVD player and HD Tivo. Once you get used to all the HD sources, SD DVD might be unbearable to watch if you don't do a good job with the upscaling.

Also, my SXRD only has so many HDMI inputs, so I have to use my DVDO as a switcher anyway. Since you're gonna have a quality SD DVD player, I'm not sure you need a video processor. You can actually use a plain old switcher.

Considering the 3930 gets you 95% of the way to the 5910, IMO the 5910 is a waste of money today.

Thanks for the replies.

The Sony HDTV is yet to be purchased. So we have time to change our minds on that one. From what I've read, it seems like the going price is right around 5k with the 5 year Sony extended warranty. That's for the KDSR70XBR2. We need to demo a few more TV's but that's the current favorite. I'm a little concerned about the reliablity on it, but none of the RPTV's seem to be without problems or issues. I need to hang out on the forums here and read a lot more about our options before we make a decision though. We've also talked about just waiting until the XBR3's come out sometime next fall. Right now we're focused on buying some new furniture... so that's this month and next month's projects.

Our budget is roughly 10k for a new video system. With 5k of that into the Sony that leaves us 5k for a DVD player (and VP if recommended). I have no problems buying used when possible and would prefer it on the higher end items if we went that route. Depreciation favors the used buyer after all. Basically I'm after the best big screen SD picture quality we can get for 10k that is HD capable. We've thought about front projectors but whatever we buy will be going in the living room of our apartment. It seems like a large rptv is the natural choice... unless we're mistaken.

So why are we after high quality SD instead of focusing on HD? My wife and I mainly own Japanese Animation on DVD and have a large collection of about 500 titles (we do watch regular movies though as well, Netflix is great). Good anime can be extreemly detailed, rich in both color and light shading, and have wonderful vocals/soundtracks. In many ways animation can be much more demanding of an A/V system than a regular Hollywood movie. It's just unfortunate that most people lump it in with cartoons and never explore what this medium of entertainment and art has to offer. Japanese Animation used to be hand drawn and painted onto individual cells which would then be photographed frame by frame. In recent years the production has switched to CG animation largly due to it's cheaper production costs as the technology has matured. The majority of Japanese animation we have is presented in Stereo, however new releases in 5.1 are starting to dominate the market. To date, there are no titles that have been released in an HD format, but that should be changing by the end of this year as a few of the more famous titles are reportedly being re-mastered and re-released in one or both formats. In general though, HD Animation as the standard is a long ways off even when compaired with Hollywood productions. So while it would be nice to be able to fully exploit it in the next few years as it starts to trickle out, we'd rather maximize our system to enjoy the hundreds SD DVDs we already have and will probably still be buying new several years from now.

I'm warry of buying into an HD format until the players mature a bit more and the format war shakes out a bit. Especially since the majority of what we watch wouldn't be in HD anyway. I still remember all the growing pains that the 1st and 2nd gen SD DVD players had when they first appeared. It seems like the HD DVD players are having some of the same issues. Having said that though, we've thought about going with a PS3 or XBOX360 since they're more than just a player and we do have $450 in Best Buy gift certs left over from Xmas. So an HD format player or HD game system will probably happen at some point over the next 6 months anyway.

If we can come in under 10k, then great! We're not looking to needlessly waste money and we're not rich. We just value the last 10 years of entertainment we've gotten with watching our current home theater system and finally have the means to take the experience up a few notches. Any money saved from the video budget can go to the audio budget and vice versa so there's some flexibility. Even though we have the means to buy our entire A/V system tomorrow we are planing on building it over the next few years just as we did with our current system. We don't feel any great need to rush (especially on the audio side), but we do feel a great need to come up with a coherent plan so that at the end of 2 years we're not left with a bunch of mismatched equipment. We're looking for synergy.

Our current Marantz DVD player works fine but also has some querks that piss me off from time to time. Since it's not worth much on the used market, we plan to just keep it and move it to a bedroom once it's replacement is found. If we could pick out a nice new or used player in the next 2 or 3 months we'd be happy but we need something that will match well on the audio side.

Bottom line - It's worth it to us to buy a more expensive SD DVD player if DVD's will actually sound better but not if it's simply for better sounding CD/SACD/DVD-A playback. ;) So that's the 200 to 2500 dollar question. Do budget players actually sound better than premium ones when the DVD sound track processing is being done by a PreAmp/Processor?

Got any better ways to spend a 10k budget on a video system along these lines? We're open to ideas.

Thank you if you read through all that. :p :)

Toshiba HD-A2 w/ the new firmware updates.

The Sony you are looking at is awesome. There are some more affordable DLPs or the JVC LCOS. The Sony has the best picture in my mind, but it's a good 60%+ more expensive.

I just received my oppo 981. The product, the service and support is the best. It takes advantage of my 1080p display. Buy one now and six months you will be able to get a combo player and get the oppo for free with money left over. You may even decide that the oppo is good enough without the combo. I just played a dvd demo disk of fast and furious. Awesome. Forget the other players unless you hate money. By the way the return policy of OPPO is also excellent.

I'm not sure I understand spending $250 on an upconverting player, when you can spend ~$350 on an upconverter + HD-DVD player.

Upscaling any content to 1080p vs 1080i is pointless. They are the exact same as long as your TV can deinterlace worth a dang.

I'm not sure I understand spending $250 on an upconverting player, when you can spend ~$350 on an upconverter + HD-DVD player.

Upscaling any content to 1080p vs 1080i is pointless. They are the exact same as long as your TV can deinterlace worth a dang.

Because the PS3 is probably going to run HD-DVD into the ground, and more and more movie companies are supporting blue-ray. Why jump on a sinking ship for $100 more. Also the Oppo is Region free and plays DivX files.

I'd go with the Toshiba XA2 for your setup. Read what some testing has revealed about the XA2 here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782887 -----(edit: there are also several 1st hand comparisons to the other DVD players you mentioned if you read the entire thread)

I believe the XA2 upconverts to 1080p like the other big boys you mentioned but it is lower priced. Having a player that upconverts standard DVD's better than an external video processor is pretty impressive. And you can always play HD-DVD's to boot. It sounds like you enjoy music as well. There are a lot of great concerts coming to HD-DVD and in lossless audio or even the higher bitrates of DD+ you can have some really outstanding sound from your audio setup. The negative is that it will not play SACD's or DVD-A's.

If SACD and DVD-A is important to you, you can get a XA2 and a standalone SACD/DVD-A player or the 3910 isn't a bad option here either. Both ways you are looking at around $1200. I'm not sure going with the top of the line Denon is going to give you enough of an improvement in quality to support the $2000 more it costs.

PS3 running HD into the ground? That's funny. HD is totally outselling all BRD players.

I don't have a dog in this race, and don't know how it's going to end up, but to have a strong opinion either way right now just shows a bias.

Is Lite-On taking their experience from the XBOX add-on to come out w/ a standalone player for <$300? We'll see how many Jimmys and Joes - you know, the 95% of people who don't play games - snag one of those.

Lets stop the fanboy Blu-Ray and HD-DVD crap. Thanks.

larry

Is Lite-On taking their experience from the XBOX add-on to come out w/ a standalone player for <$300?
LiteOn has already announced an HD-DVD player. I'm not impressed with my LiteOn DVD recorder, however, although they get great reviewes for their computer drives.

I noticed that you mentioned owning a McIntosh A/V processor. Though the MVP-871 (just replaced the old MVP-861) will look pretty alongside it, $5,300 (its MSRP) is a large chunk of change for what is essentially a DVD-2910 video board (no kidding...) with Mac's own power transformer and analog output stage. Honestly, there is more real-world value in the DVD-3930CI at less than a third of the price.

The MVP-861 was over $4,000 IIRC, and it was based on a DVD-2900, which was an aging platform even while the '861 was a current model last year.

Case in point - McIntosh makes great audio gear, but like a lot high-end audio companies, they're about 2 years behind with video. Their "Core Values" (glass panels, patented power transformers, resale value, etc.) marketing model is what sells their universal players, not necessarily their real-world performance. I haven't received my MVP-871 demo unit yet, but I only recall selling maybe one MVP-861 over the last year to an old McIntosh loyalist. And believe me, I've sold a lot of McIntosh amps and controllers...

Thank you all for your help. I've held off replying here until I did some more research based on your suggestions and made some new purchases.

First, let me back up some... the concrete deal I thought I had worked out for the McIntosh equipment (Amp&Pre/Pro) fell through. I guess this is one of those "don't count your chickens before your eggs hatch" deals. As it turns out, this was all for the best since it allowed me to downsize my audio budget to swing more money over to the video side. Good point about the Mc equipment too Chunk. After reading a LOT more on the subject... your points are right on the money. Thanks.

What I wound up purchasing so far to build a system around is this:

Rotel RSP-1098 Pre/Pro
Rotel RB-1090 Amp (2x380watt @8ohm)
Rotel RMB-1095 Amp (5x200watt @8ohm)
and just yesterday a Salamander Designs Synergy 41/39 (80in tower rack).

The Rotel was a better price point which allowed me to swing enough money over from the audio side to go with a Front Projector. I'm seriously considering the new JVC HD1/RS1 and a Stewart ST130 screen. The rack will be installed in the back of the room.

I'm still trying to decide on a DVD player but it looks like the everyone here is recommending the Toshiba HD-A2, A20, or XA2. I'm a hear'n ya! Lol. I've been reading all the threads on them and it seems like the choice to go with for my system and SD PQ concerns. I'm just holding off on buying one until I read more feedback from the JVC owners on what the ideal setup is between the models. Seems like the XA2 may still be the way to go even if it's upconversion of SD DVD's isn't needed due to the JVC's internal processor. I'll just have to wait and read more on it though.

As for Blu-Ray, I haven't forgotten about that either... I've been a big Gran Turismo fan since the first one came out on the PS1. After seeing the screen shots of the new GT HD on the PS3, it's certainly something I see in my future. ;) It also seems like the PS3 is the arguably the best choice for a Blu-Ray player anyway... so that's on my list of purchases once the FP system is purchased.

In all, I just want to thank everyone here that took the time to help me (a noob) out. I'm not made of money so purchases for my HT system have to be made very carefully. You have all helped me very much as well as all the members in the many many threads I've read here on AVS.

Thank you!

:D

The Toshiba HD-XA2 is a great player for the money. It has the same SO Realta chip that higher-end Denon players have.

I just still can't get over painfully slow the damned thing is (not as slow as the A1/XA1, but still...). If there's one thing Toshiba needs to work on, it's getting their HD-DVD players closer to the responsiveness of a standard DVD player. I don't like waiting for a piece of consumer electronics to "boot." Even the HD-DVD add-on drive for the XBox 360 is faster. That's sad...

End of my rant.

The Toshiba HD-XA2 is a great player for the money. It has the same SO Realta chip that higher-end Denon players have.

I just still can't get over painfully slow the damned thing is (not as slow as the A1/XA1, but still...). If there's one thing Toshiba needs to work on, it's getting their HD-DVD players closer to the responsiveness of a standard DVD player. I don't like waiting for a piece of consumer electronics to "boot." Even the HD-DVD add-on drive for the XBox 360 is faster. That's sad...

End of my rant.

Where ya goin'?

Where ya goin'?

To each his own, I guess. I'm sure that everyone has been frustrated by a computer that's too slow, yet we still grudgingly sit there and wait. All I'm saying is that Toshiba really didn't need to base a player around what is essentially PC running embedded software. They did it because it's cheap, which is why they can get away with selling HD-A2's for $500, the price of a well-built DVD player.

Perhaps this is a sore subject with me because these players are an absolute nightmare when programming them to work with control system macros. I had a remove an HD-A2 from a client's house because controlling it via Crestron proved to be far too unreliable at the time. Things are bound to get better over time, I suppose.

Just stay away fom APEX DVD players because you'll be shocked at how unreliable they are!
they skip on new DVD's! and that's too shocking!

I got a GPX DVD player that never skips on anything but the worst damaged discs!