The hell is going on with HD-DVD? I bought a PS3 just because I was like others sick of the low disc output. However, that doesn't mean I don't still love HD-DVD. Anyways, I know there has been a million of these posts. But, I've never expressed my thoughts and by god if HD-DVD wants to just hang around then why did they ever get involved in the first place? They need to get it going. Why all the hard work just to go flatter than a pitcher of the house special? Why even get in the game if you were gonna fold like Andy Roddick in the US Open? :o

The hell is going on with HD-DVD? I bought a PS3 just because I was like others sick of the low disc output. However, that doesn't mean I don't still love HD-DVD. Anyways, I know there has been a million of these posts. But, I've never expressed my thoughts and by god if HD-DVD wants to just hang around then why did they ever get involved in the first place? They need to get it going. Why all the hard work just to go flatter than a pitcher of the house special? Why even get in the game if you were gonna fold like Andy Roddick in the US Open? :o

Ever heard the saying, an empty vessel makes the most noise? Right now, the BDA is making a lot of noise. The HD DVD group has quietly done what no one expected them to do. They will after one year of release have near parity in the number of total releases (this is with only one exclusive studio), the will have dominated the standalone player market (this is with one exclusive CE manufacturer) and they have a clear roadmap to introduce low cost mass marketed players to the market (this is based on the MSFT -Broadcom design), while BD has nothing like that. In fact, all the BD manufacturers are scrambling to come up with combo players!

So you see, a couple of months of noise and hoopla isn't going to end this battle. HD DVD has promised around 300 new titles for this year and Universal is promising 100 of those to be exclusive. I am not sure how many titles BD will release this year, but given their limited replication capabilities it will not be very many more than 300.

Where BD has a clear advantage and one they can use very effectively is the new releases from Disney, Fox and Sony that will be on BD only. So, around 60% or thereabouts of new releases will be on BD only. As far as total number of releases, we should not see a huge gap by the end of the year. Of course I could be totall wrong and Warner may decide to go slow for the entire year (but their recent announcements about releases in France and Germany indicate that second half of the year should be strong for HD DVD).

Finally, nothing wrong with getting a PS3. IMHO, it's a great value and IF I didn't already have a BD player I might have got one. I may have even compromised on the remote issue :)

Cheers.

In fact, all the BD manufacturers are scrambling to come up with combo players!
Fact? I call BS on this one.

Fact? I call BS on this one.

Let's see....

What about the rest?

Ever heard the saying, an empty vessel makes the most noise? Right now, the BDA is making a lot of noise. The HD DVD group has quietly done what no one expected them to do. They will after one year of release have near parity in the number of total releases (this is with only one exclusive studio), the will have dominated the standalone player market (this is with one exclusive CE manufacturer) and they have a clear roadmap to introduce low cost mass marketed players to the market (this is based on the MSFT -Broadcom design), while BD has nothing like that. In fact, all the BD manufacturers are scrambling to come up with combo players!

So you see, a couple of months of noise and hoopla isn't going to end this battle. HD DVD has promised around 300 new titles for this year and Universal is promising 100 of those to be exclusive. I am not sure how many titles BD will release this year, but given their limited replication capabilities it will not be very many more than 300.

Where BD has a clear advantage and one they can use very effectively is the new releases from Disney, Fox and Sony that will be on BD only. So, around 60% or thereabouts of new releases will be on BD only. As far as total number of releases, we should not see a huge gap by the end of the year. Of course I could be totall wrong and Warner may decide to go slow for the entire year (but their recent announcements about releases in France and Germany indicate that second half of the year should be strong for HD DVD).

Finally, nothing wrong with getting a PS3. IMHO, it's a great value and IF I didn't already have a BD player I might have got one. I may have even compromised on the remote issue :)

Cheers.

Nice post!

What I don't get is why one disk is $19.99 and then another is $28.99 for HD DVD? When the same version non HD release may be $10 when we were told it only costs 20% more to produce the disks. At $28.99 disk prices these will NEVER become mainstream America when I can walk into Blockbuster and buy three for $20 or buy them new for $10 and in so new in the standard format. Makes one wonder what the hell price they'll set on the hydrid disks.

Or why the hell it takes so long to convert older movie titles like Singin in the Rain? They announce these things as coming soon and we go months and months waiting as if they are filming the flik all over again for god's sake, crap it's all automated so what's the hold-up? They aren't having to wait for theatrical rotations with older movies and TV Content. They do need to step it up if one considers how many videos are in an average video store? Perhaps over 5,000 and what do we have just over 100? That equates to far less than a trickle of releases.

Come on let's open the floodgate or many may move on to PS3/BD and the HD DVD becomes the backup. Get's rather annoying to visit Netflix and seeing the SOSO selections week after week and Target and seeing the same dozen or so being sold. Don't get me wrong I love the PQ and sound of my HD DVD after doing the firmware fix but now the frustration is in finding new quality content and many of the titles are reruns of what I've already seen on my HD Channels - while I make a good living I will never pay $28.99 for a disk and I doubt mainstream America will either in volume anyways.:)

congrats on the PS3. i think you made the right decision.

Ever heard the saying, an empty vessel makes the most noise? Right now, the BDA is making a lot of noise. The HD DVD group has quietly done what no one expected them to do. They will after one year of release have near parity in the number of total releases (this is with only one exclusive studio), the will have dominated the standalone player market (this is with one exclusive CE manufacturer) and they have a clear roadmap to introduce low cost mass marketed players to the market (this is based on the MSFT -Broadcom design), while BD has nothing like that. In fact, all the BD manufacturers are scrambling to come up with combo players!

So you see, a couple of months of noise and hoopla isn't going to end this battle. HD DVD has promised around 300 new titles for this year and Universal is promising 100 of those to be exclusive. I am not sure how many titles BD will release this year, but given their limited replication capabilities it will not be very many more than 300.

Where BD has a clear advantage and one they can use very effectively is the new releases from Disney, Fox and Sony that will be on BD only. So, around 60% or thereabouts of new releases will be on BD only. As far as total number of releases, we should not see a huge gap by the end of the year. Of course I could be totall wrong and Warner may decide to go slow for the entire year (but their recent announcements about releases in France and Germany indicate that second half of the year should be strong for HD DVD).

Finally, nothing wrong with getting a PS3. IMHO, it's a great value and IF I didn't already have a BD player I might have got one. I may have even compromised on the remote issue :)

Cheers.

Excellent post! And I agree about the combo players. Nobody in the blu-ray camp wants to go public with that sort of news at this point, but I believe that Samsung, at the least, and perhaps also Panasonic are thinking this way. It all depends on how long they are willing to hold the door for Sony. The problem is that there is an unwritten eleventh commandment in the blu-ray group: Thou shalt not sell a standalone for less than $799 (leaving aside discontinued, refurb, and Ebay items).

As far as strategy, I like Toshiba's apparent low-key approach without all the huffing and puffing. Their HDTV with A2 rebate promo is just starting; A2s and XA2s are selling well (if Amazon rankings are any indication); and the Super Bowl ads may drive further sales. The Sound and Vision award for the XA1 won't hurt either.

The PS3 is having its troubles on the gaming side and, if it becomes mostly a movie machine, could end up being neither fish nor fowl (sold in game departments and used mostly to show movies, since top-selling games are in short supply). The PS3 sales numbers are great for blu-ray, but not so great for taking over the game market. Blu-ray has to put an inexpensive unit in the home theater department, not in the game department.

I think we should not confuse lots of marketing noise with tactical expertise. Lots of things are going on backstage, and we should not get so impatient. I used to believe that blu-ray could win by putting out more movie titles this year, but I am beginning to change my mind about that. Studios will have to feed the HD DVD standalone market, especially if it grows significantly. Ups and downs for sales numbers from week to week might stimulate our manic-depressive tendencies, but the numbers for both sides are still too small to impress the studios all that much.

Believe me, Toshiba is eyeing disk sales very carefully, but the studios are paying attention to HD DVD player and add-on sales.

I repeat what I have said before: With all the money Sony put into subsidizing PS3s and replication for studios, they should have put just a little cash into subsiding an inexpensive standalone unit. They obviously didn't want to tick off the others in the blu-ray group by undercutting their sales, but the PS3 ended up having the same effect.

So far, however, Toshiba has seemed to prefer supply of quality players to hype about winning or losing. We will have to wait and see if this strategy works well or not. Personally, I like it better; but that is just my humble opinion.

Let me add: If Sony had put a $500 standalone against the A1 in the home theater showrooms, this "war" might have already ended in blu-ray's favor. People like the Sony brand, and they might have picked up the Sony over the Toshiba on the basis of brand identification only. But those price tags carry lots of weight.

What I don't get is why one disk is $19.99 and then another is $28.99 for HD DVD? When the same version non HD release may be $10 when we were told it only costs 20% more to produce the disks. At $28.99 disk prices these will NEVER become mainstream America when I can walk into Blockbuster and buy three for $20 or buy them new for $10 and in so new in the standard format. Makes one wonder what the hell price they'll set on the hydrid disks.

Or why the hell it takes so long to convert older movie titles like Singin in the Rain? They announce these things as coming soon and we go months and months waiting as if they are filming the flik all over again for god's sake, crap it's all automated so what's the hold-up? They aren't having to wait for theatrical rotations with older movies and TV Content. They do need to step it up if one considers how many videos are in an average video store? Perhaps over 5,000 and what do we have just over 100? That equates to far less than a trickle of releases.

Come on let's open the floodgate or many may move on to PS3/BD and the HD DVD becomes the backup. Get's rather annoying to visit Netflix and seeing the SOSO selections week after week and Target and seeing the same dozen or so being sold. Don't get me wrong I love the PQ and sound of my HD DVD after doing the firmware fix but now the frustration is in finding new quality content and many of the titles are reruns of what I've already seen on my HD Channels - while I make a good living I will never pay $28.99 for a disk and I doubt mainstream America will either in volume anyways.:)

Production costs of making transfers and masters are much greater than actual replication costs. Studios are afraid to spend too much money upfront and then sell too few disks. I agree with you that they are being too slow or cautious. Everybody seems to be waiting for everyone else in this competition, like many people standing at the door and waiting for everyone else to go first.

People talk about variety of titles and cheap players, but hd will really take off when disks come down to -- say -- $14.99 each. Studios could put thousands of titles out there, but people will still Netflix their movies so long as the cost to own is high. Some people on this forum have bought nearly every title, but most people can't or won't choose to do that. Studios on both sides don't want to lose money by dropping disk prices significantly to bring an end to the format "war." They would rather accomplish the same end by other means.

As an aside, if Universal prices its combos to match the price of HD DVD singles, things could get interesting.

The hell is going on with HD-DVD? I bought a PS3 just because I was like others sick of the low disc output. However, that doesn't mean I don't still love HD-DVD. Anyways, I know there has been a million of these posts. But, I've never expressed my thoughts and by god if HD-DVD wants to just hang around then why did they ever get involved in the first place? They need to get it going. Why all the hard work just to go flatter than a pitcher of the house special? Why even get in the game if you were gonna fold like Andy Roddick in the US Open? :o


Some people just aren't suited to be early adopters and everything that entails including patience. Additionally, you get HD DVD detractors gleefully pouncing on the fresh meat while using the old I have a HD and PS3 as cover.

Doesn't HD DVD have a total of 174 releases out right now and blu-ray only has 162? Plus blu-ray won't catch up until feb 13th (where they'll have 5 or 6 more titles then HD DVD). I mean, I only really count up to the next 2 weeks because I don't know when other titles are going to be announced but man you guys need to take a chill pill and stop worrying so much.

HD DVD has been leading in title releases since it started and because it starts to slow down a bit people just up and quit the format like it's dead?

HD DVD has tons of titles out right now and they are releasing some very good ones in the future. Please give it till around April before you make your final choice. By then there should be some "good" announcements for the rest of the year.

you get HD DVD detractors gleefully pouncing on the fresh meat while using the old I have a HD and PS3 as cover.

I agree, but there are members on both sides of the format that use the "I own both so I can put down the other". That is not exclusive the the BD camp.

I wish they would just release a list with all of the dates for these 300 movies so we can stop seeing 25 posts like this every day.

I wish they would just release a list with all of the dates for these 300 movies so we can stop seeing 25 posts like this every day.

I'm pretty much with you on that. I hate the "I'm switching, or Another HD DVD to Blu-ray convert." Just shut up and enjoy your movies.

Sam

I am in general agreement with the position that "right now" there is a lack of exciting HD-DVDs to buy. I've been through Amazon and DVDempire online, plus many local stores here in NYC with a "thirst" for HD-DVDs and there just aren't many on the shelves. Maybe we are in the calm before the storm.

Are you saying Beerfest, Half-Baked and Hollywoodland aren't high profile enough for you? :D

I love both formats, and I have to admit HD-DVD is pissing me off right now.

First off, when I bought into both formats in November, I chose to buy any Wb and Paramount releases as HD DVD's because of the format's record up until that point and the better audio on most of the releases. Now I feel like a fool for doing that.

I changed my Black Rain order to the Blu-Ray, and I am getting all the Discovery discs as Blu-Ray's as well. Meanwhile, the only disc that came out on HD-DVD in the last couple weeks I wanted was Brokeback Mountain.

For February, there are at least 7 BD exclusives I want. I also changed my Departed pre-order to Blu-Ray (to avoid the useless combo).I also made my NIN pre-order for the BD.

Current amount of HD-DVD's I have on order for February: 0.

Now I will definitely be buying Uni stuff like The Game, Eternal Sunshine and Children Of Men. But HD-DVD really, REALLY needs to get their **** together, and fast.

Some people just aren't suited to be early adopters and everything that entails including patience. Additionally, you get HD DVD detractors gleefully pouncing on the fresh meat while using the old I have a HD and PS3 as cover.

Right on the money.

Jeez, if you JUST can't wait for the movies why don't you take advantage of some of the best DVD upconversion around and rent some DVD's for that Toshiba?

If you are going to be burning through HD content at a fast clip and can't stand re-watching titles, you jumped into either format waaayyyy too early.

On my display, the Oppo 971 looks better on upconversion that both the HD-A1 and BDP-S1.

I didn't buy the HD-A1 to upconvert. Nor am I a Blu-Ray cheerleader. I've been neutral since day one. I'm just calling it as I see it.

Let's see.... What about the rest?
The rest, as in the rest of your post? I agree with most of it, certainly. It's just that one sentence that caught my eye, as I have seen zero evidence to back it up. You make it sound like the scrambling is happening right now, too, so it shouldn't be too hard to show some facts to back it up, right?

I'm simply sick and tired of folks pulling stuff out of thin air and presenting total fabrications as facts, is all. Oh, and FYI, I'm format neutral - but fact biased. :)

Doesn't HD DVD have a total of 174 releases out right now and blu-ray only has 162? Plus blu-ray won't catch up until feb 13th (where they'll have 5 or 6 more titles then HD DVD). I mean, I only really count up to the next 2 weeks because I don't know when other titles are going to be announced but man you guys need to take a chill pill and stop worrying so much..


Sam, if you look at right now, yes more HDdvd are available to ship than BD but if you look at how many can be purchased now (including pre-orders) the number is:
BD -213
HDdvd-184

That difference is only going to grow as the weeks go along unless HDdvd really steps up to the plate (Uni and Weinstein...)

d

I am in general agreement with the position that "right now" there is a lack of exciting HD-DVDs to buy. I've been through Amazon and DVDempire online, plus many local stores here in NYC with a "thirst" for HD-DVDs and there just aren't many on the shelves. Maybe we are in the calm before the storm.

So you were the other guy browsing the rows of HD-DVD discs over at J&R (freaking thieves selling all movies at MSRP) and Entertainment Outlet next to me? :p

WOAH! JandR is doing that?!?!
One of my old stomping grounds back when I lived in NYC.
Got my amp and speakers there...

wow, that sucks.

They just may have blow it ( HD DVD )

I stopped at a local CC near my house and they did not carry any HD at all, only BR :(

In fact, all the BD manufacturers are scrambling to come up with combo players!
Cheers.

Ever heard the saying: "This show has finally jumped the shark"?

You just did that.

I stopped at a local CC near my house and they did not carry any HD at all, only BR :(


my CC is starting to push HD-DVD, it used to be pure Bluray, now they have the Xbox add on in front of the store, with HD-DVDs and have the 360 playing a HD movie next to the TV playing a bluray movie,

Also, FWIW, and this is totally anecdotal, but every time I go in Best Buy or Fry's to check out HD's and BD's, people are regularly browsing the Blu-Ray side. The HD-DVD side, not so much.

The hell is going on with HD-DVD? I bought a PS3 just because I was like others sick of the low disc output. However, that doesn't mean I don't still love HD-DVD. Anyways, I know there has been a million of these posts. But, I've never expressed my thoughts and by god if HD-DVD wants to just hang around then why did they ever get involved in the first place? They need to get it going. Why all the hard work just to go flatter than a pitcher of the house special? Why even get in the game if you were gonna fold like Andy Roddick in the US Open? :o

I hear you. HD-DVD should have stomped BD guts out when they had the chance. But they decided to play nice and it will cost them the war.

So is HD-DVDs master plan to let BD back into the fight? Some plan that would be.

Ever heard the saying, an empty vessel makes the most noise? Right now, the BDA is making a lot of noise. The HD DVD group has quietly done what no one expected them to do. They will after one year of release have near parity in the number of total releases (this is with only one exclusive studio), the will have dominated the standalone player market (this is with one exclusive CE manufacturer) and they have a clear roadmap to introduce low cost mass marketed players to the market (this is based on the MSFT -Broadcom design), while BD has nothing like that. In fact, all the BD manufacturers are scrambling to come up with combo players!

So you see, a couple of months of noise and hoopla isn't going to end this battle. HD DVD has promised around 300 new titles for this year and Universal is promising 100 of those to be exclusive. I am not sure how many titles BD will release this year, but given their limited replication capabilities it will not be very many more than 300.

Where BD has a clear advantage and one they can use very effectively is the new releases from Disney, Fox and Sony that will be on BD only. So, around 60% or thereabouts of new releases will be on BD only. As far as total number of releases, we should not see a huge gap by the end of the year. Of course I could be totall wrong and Warner may decide to go slow for the entire year (but their recent announcements about releases in France and Germany indicate that second half of the year should be strong for HD DVD).

Finally, nothing wrong with getting a PS3. IMHO, it's a great value and IF I didn't already have a BD player I might have got one. I may have even compromised on the remote issue :)

Cheers.

I have a spreadsheet showing expected numbers from all studios (according to their statements and assuming current studio support as of CES). It shows Blu-ray at about 600 and HD DVD at about 375 by the end of the year total number of releases. This includes 100 from Universal but also 100 each from Sony and Fox, and shows equal numbers from Paramount but includes the "makeup" for Blu-ray from Warners. Of course you can argue with the numbers, and no one knows.

People are not appreciating the role that content played last summer in HD DVD's initial success. The exclusive support from Universal together with semi-exclusive support from Warners made a huge difference for a while (I will not discuss Sony's "contribution" again).

In August, when Videoscan numbers apparently showed a 3:1 sales lead from HD DVD, the month actually began with a 3:1 lead in the number of titles. I think the average was a bit over 2:1 for the month but this would require looking at release dates very carefully. So, while HD DVD appeared to be walking all over Blu-ray as a format, it is more accurate to say that the larger number of titles and title PQ quality accounts for much of the difference.

WRT the PS3 remote: the Sixaxis controller works just fine as a Blu-ray remote. We did buy a Blue-tooth remote for my son's PS3 but there is no real reason to have one.

Well, as a veteran of DVD-A and SACD the pace of HD-DVD releases doesn't faze me at all. Not being a Jazz or Classical fan the releases are few and far between but just make them that more enjoyable when they do come, plus you get to play them many times and really appreciate the works while waiting for the next ship to dock

It's kinda great that you can own, and have actually watched, every HD-DVD film that you're interested in - my SD-DVD collection remains 50% unwatched and I find myself watching some films just to tick them off the list rather than for true enjoyment. I've actually watched all of my 20 ish HD-DVDs and sold off those that I won't watch again. Also, given that I'm in Australia, there are a heap of upcoming "European" releases that I can source locally as well as importing the US discs so I've got the best of both worlds :cool:

Being an early adopter is risky, and is not for everyone, but the price of the HD-A1 was too good to ignore and I've already had heaps of enjoyment out of it despite the occasional glitch. If the PS3 launches here in March at reasonable prices I may pick one up to cover both formats but the restrictions placed on region coding make this less desirable (Australia is stuck in the non-US Region {B I think})

Cheers

Martin