Back when we had flipper DVDs, we had to flip the disc over to watch the second half of the movie, or the extras.

Combo HD DVDs are not like that, except for some with the extras. You don't flip the disc over to watch the whole movie.

They are double-sided discs, not "flippers".

Also, the only thing you are missing is disc art, and the top side is always the regular DVD side. If you don't care about that side, then it doesn't matter if you put fingerprints all over it.

I am just pointing this out to people who refuse to buy combos on principle rather than on price. ;)

...those of us using the term "flipper" are using it rather loosely to represent a disc with material on both sides, we really didn't need a lesson in what an 'oldschool' flipper is. I still refuse to buy them on principle. I have a few myself from long ago, and detest them. I'm probably going to make sure I sell them in my first batch of sd dvds I get rid of.

...those of us using the term "flipper" are using it rather loosely to represent a disc with material on both sides, we really didn't need a lesson in what an 'oldschool' flipper is. I still refuse to buy them on principle. I have a few myself from long ago, and detest them. I'm probably going to make sure I sell them in my first batch of sd dvds I get rid of.


Why? Is it the lack of disc art? That doesn't matter when the movie is playing in the player, and you are depriving yourself of some worthy choices.

...those of us using the term "flipper" are using it rather loosely to represent a disc with material on both sides, we really didn't need a lesson in what an 'oldschool' flipper is. I still refuse to buy them on principle. I have a few myself from long ago, and detest them. I'm probably going to make sure I sell them in my first batch of sd dvds I get rid of.

I can understand detesting an old DVD flipper, because you have to get up in the middle of the movie. Outside of the price, I don't understand the same hatred being directed at combos, since once they're in your HD DVD player, they function exactly the same as a non-combo HD DVD.

Eh, anyway.

I'm not wild about combos because they scratch easier, but it doesn't stop me from buying them. What I *really* hate is that small piece of cardboard that comes with the Universal HD DVDs because it always comes loose and slides around the HD DVD side of the combo.

Why? Is it the lack of disc art? That doesn't matter when the movie is playing in the player, and you are depriving yourself of some worthy choices.

1)paying for something you dont need (dvd side)
2)scratching said dvd side, even inside the case, its impossible to keep them pristine.
3)missing art. Its called "missing" for a reason...it should be there.

1)paying for something you dont need (dvd side)
2)scratching said dvd side, even inside the case, its impossible to keep them pristine.
3)missing art. Its called "missing" for a reason...it should be there.


1) Many combos are under $25 at amazon, and I haven't seen any over $27
2)Mine don't get scratched? How are you scratching yours? Just treat the disc right and it will be fine
3)I don't think you will be looking at disc art, you will be looking at the image on your screen :p

...those of us using the term "flipper" are using it rather loosely to represent a disc with material on both sides, we really didn't need a lesson in what an 'oldschool' flipper is.

Sure you do. It's a term that is being used incorrectly with regard to combos and it shouldn't be applied to them. Lesson needed. And lesson will certainly be ignored, as per the above.

1)paying for something you dont need (dvd side)
2)scratching said dvd side, even inside the case, its impossible to keep them pristine.
3)missing art. Its called "missing" for a reason...it should be there.


If you don't need the DVD side, why care if it gets scratched? Although I agree that artwork on the disc would be nice, the lack of it wouldn't keep me from buying a combo of a movie I like.

1)paying for something you dont need (dvd side)
2)scratching said dvd side, even inside the case, its impossible to keep them pristine.
3)missing art. Its called "missing" for a reason...it should be there.


1. Then you aren't buying wisely.

2. "Impossible to keep pristine"? Only if you abuse your disks. It's no harder to keep a combo clean as it is for a single sided disk. At least that's the case for me. What are you doing to your disks?

3. Why are so many obsessed by the art on a disk? I can barely understand the obsession over the box art, can't begin to understand that obsession with the disk. Do people sit and stare at the disk? I open a case when I want to watch something. The key word here is "watch". That means it goes from the case to the player as fast as possible.

I think we scared them off with our powers of reason and logic :cool:

Call them whatever you like. I still don't like them and will not buy them.

Call them whatever you like. I still don't like them and will not buy them.


Then you will foolishly miss out on some great HD DVDs.

Then you will foolishly miss out on some great HD DVDs.

I won't be missing out on anything. I'll just rent them or buy them as a non combo import if available.

I don't understand why people insist on continuing to misuse this term. Unless they start releasing 30GB HD DVDs on double sided 15GB/side discs, these movies ARE NOT flippers. I'm glad to see a thread on the topic considering this incorrect term is thrown around so freely 'round here.

I also would like to know what people who claim they scratch easier are doing to their discs. I've got just about every combo and just like the single sided discs, they're all scratch free. If you're setting your drinks on your HD DVDs, you're causing them to scratch... ;)

I am going to guess that a good part of the backlash is from Blu-ray folks who realize what a great trojan horse combo discs are to HD DVD... :cool:

Some combos ARE flippers!

Why do I say this? Cuz they make you flip over the disc to watch the extras. That is just stupid.

Yeah, but those are a small minority, and not that much of a big deal.

Yeah, but those are a small minority, and not that much of a big deal.


And yet they remain flippers. Deplorable, disgusting, more expensive, horrible flippers.

As such, any combo at any time could be a flipper.

Thus they are all flippers because they all have the potential in their heart of hearts to be a flipper.

I want the disc art. I don't want to pay for a DVD side. Therefore, I deplore flippers. Any chance I get, I'll buy the BD version of a movie to avoid the flipper and hope someday that the HD DVD studios get the picture. A lot of us don't want this plague upon our discs.

And I challenge anyone who wants to use their DVD side of their expensive HD DVD "flipper" combo to give one to their kids to let them use in the minivan on their way to soccer practice for a few weeks and then extoll how scratch resistance that HD DVD side is when IT is the "art side."

Uh huh. Easier for the minority who like the flipper combo's to go out and buy the DVD themselves and let us who just want the HD DVD side have ours by itself. Of course, let's not forget. Flipper combos are what the HD DVD group (Universal and Microsoft) are using to justify the continued existence of HD DVD over BD, so clearly they're going to push it as hard as they possibly can. ;)

This thread is just one whole big argument which is going nowhere.

This thread is just one whole big argument which is going nowhere.

Its a lot of people trying to rationalize flippers as "a good thing" because its what Universal is going to give them, almost without exception rather shortly.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but see a reflection of the Apple marketplace in this. Steve announces a switch to x86, and the Apple fans bitch and bitch and bitch for about 45 minutes, then it suddenly becomes "oh well" and within the hour its apparently the best thing to ever happen in the universe. People rationalize something to themselves they would otherwise not like because they aren't being given a choice.

This thread is filled with people programming themselves to like the idea of flippers.

I'm not one of them.

Want to hear something worse? Total HD is just a flipper in the same damn manner. I don't give a damn that the content is for totally different players per side, its still a flipper to me, and heres the ****** part:

If hd-dvd collapses or Universal at any time decides to go neutral (same concept either way), Universal is left with little to no choice but to do total HD discs for some amount of time to appease its customer base.

So we move from hd-dvd/dvd flippers to bluray/hd-dvd flippers. What joy. :rolleyes:

"Total HD is just a flipper"

Ha! I didn't realize that. No artwork on them either! :eek:

Except they are not flippers, per the explanation in my original post. And I am not saying they are the greatest thing ever. I couldn't care less about the DVD side myself. I'm just saying that it does not affect me in anyway to have a disc without any disc art. If a movie comes in a combo and I like the movie, and can find it at a reasonable price to pay, then I won't hesitate to get it.

And I don't lend my discs out, especially to toddlers in minivans. Learned the hard way a loong time ago.

Also, since I hate minivans and SUVs, I don't have to worry about my own kids screwing up my discs in the car.

Except they are not flippers, per the explanation in my original post.

I'm sooo glad we have YOU here to make these determinations for the rest of us. :rolleyes:

Its a lot of people trying to rationalize flippers as "a good thing" because its what Universal is going to give them, almost without exception rather shortly.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but see a reflection of the Apple marketplace in this. Steve announces a switch to x86, and the Apple fans bitch and bitch and bitch for about 45 minutes, then it suddenly becomes "oh well" and within the hour its apparently the best thing to ever happen in the universe. People rationalize something to themselves they would otherwise not like because they aren't being given a choice.

This thread is filled with people programming themselves to like the idea of flippers.

I'm not one of them.

Want to hear something worse? Total HD is just a flipper in the same damn manner. I don't give a damn that the content is for totally different players per side, its still a flipper to me, and heres the ****** part:

If hd-dvd collapses or Universal at any time decides to go neutral (same concept either way), Universal is left with little to no choice but to do total HD discs for some amount of time to appease its customer base.

So we move from hd-dvd/dvd flippers to bluray/hd-dvd flippers. What joy. :rolleyes:
I don't mind combos at all... IF:

1) They are priced right. Unfortunately, many are not.
2) They have the full complement of stuff on the HD DVD side. Unfortunately, some leave out stuff on the HD DVD side.

I don't care at all about disc art.

The same goes for TotalHD. I don't see TotalHD as really that viable though.

...those of us using the term "flipper" are using it rather loosely to represent a disc with material on both sides, we really didn't need a lesson in what an 'oldschool' flipper is.

Thank you. I had this argument with an idiot at another DVD site. It is semantics to me. Flipper, dual-sided, whatever... If I have to "flip" the disc over to access content, I will call it whatever I want. I think most people understand the concept.

If I have to "flip" the disc over to access content, I will call it whatever I want. I think most people understand the concept.
Yeah, it's such a basic and obvious concept. Why people want to deny it, I just don't understand.

I don't mind combos at all... IF:

1) They are priced right. Unfortunately, many are not.
2) They have the full complement of stuff on the HD DVD side. Unfortunately, some leave out stuff on the HD DVD side.

I don't care at all about disc art.

The same goes for TotalHD. I don't see TotalHD as really that viable though.


TotalHD is not going to be viable. Don't really see how forcing the publisher to manufacture BOTH an HD DVD and a BD side is going to cost "a negligible amount" more.

I expect higher than BD prices on those discs. One just has to hope that the format war's over before they can switch exclusively to this TotalHDisaster.

TotalHD is not going to be viable. Don't really see how forcing the publisher to manufacture BOTH an HD DVD and a BD side is going to cost "a negligible amount" more.

I expect higher than BD prices on those discs. One just has to hope that the format war's over before they can switch exclusively to this TotalHDisaster.

I very much agree.

If I have to "flip" the disc over to access content, I will call it whatever I want. I think most people understand the concept.

Exactly.

TotalHD is not going to be viable. Don't really see how forcing the publisher to manufacture BOTH an HD DVD and a BD side is going to cost "a negligible amount" more.

I expect higher than BD prices on those discs. One just has to hope that the format war's over before they can switch exclusively to this TotalHDisaster.
The format war is not going to be over before 2009 IMO, and it may "end" by staying dual-format... but with inexpensive hybrid players available. We already have a hybrid player (almost) in 2007.

I agree it's not a flipper--dual-sided disc is more appropriate. I've never flipped any of the "flippers" that I own/rented.

I can understand the pricing issue, but this whole disc art thing is ridiculous. I guess most of my DVDs have disc art, but I couldn't tell you what any of them look like. Maybe if I thought about it long enough I could think of one, but really, it's really reaching to be so upset over a loss of "disc art." When I pull out an old dual-sided DVD, I pause for about two seconds, and I put the disc in for the widescreen side. No big deal.

The only thing I don't like about the combo discs is having to grab my reading glasses so I can see which side is HD vs. SD. :o

They are certainly flippers when you put it in upside down. :eek: Combine that wilth the slow load and eject times of the Toshiba players and I'm ready to turn the flippers into frisbees. I challenge anyone over 40 to try and figure out which side is the HD side in a darkened HT. :D

Just always keep the HD side face down. I don't need to look at the disc to see which side is the HD side.

The only thing I don't like about the combo discs is having to grab my reading glasses so I can see which side is HD vs. SD. :o

Shouldn't you be wearing your glasses anyway? I mean, if you can't see well without them, are you even enjoying HD clarity without wearing them?

If your vision is bad enough that you cant read the label at an arms length, I would question your need for HD.

They are certainly flippers when you put it in upside down. :eek: Combine that wilth the slow load and eject times of the Toshiba players and I'm ready to turn the flippers into frisbees. I challenge anyone over 40 to try and figure out which side is the HD side in a darkened HT. :D

Turn lights on and insert disc, turn lights off and enjoy the movie. This is really reaching folks

...I challenge anyone over 40 to try and figure out which side is the HD side in a darkened HT. :D

Well, to be honest, once I grabbed my walker and hobbled my way to the nightstand to put in my teeth, I was able to begin the search for my eye glasses and magnifying glass. I then had to hurry to the head because of my incontinence problem. However, sitting next to the throne was my rechargeable flashlight that I was able to use in determining which side was in high definition. It isn't easy being over 40.

Well, to be honest, once I grabbed my walker and hobbled my way to the nightstand to put in my teeth, I was able to begin the search for my eye glasses and magnifying glass. I then had to hurry to the head because of my incontinence problem. However, sitting next to the throne was my rechargeable flashlight that I was able to use in determining which side was in high definition. It isn't easy being over 40.

LOL

Turn lights on and insert disc, turn lights off and enjoy the movie. This is really reaching folksYeah, it's not that difficult to put combos on the HD DVD side the first time all the time...just be sure the labels are facing up. What's next? Are people going to complain that the disc doesn't load itself..."I'm sick of having to take the disc out of the case to put it in the player. The disc should load itself automatically. Haven't they fixed this problem yet?"... :rolleyes:

If your vision is bad enough that you cant read the label at an arms length, I would question your need for HD.


I have excellent vision for distance (anything more than a couple of feet away). Holding the disc at arms length makes the print clear, but then it's too small. The room is usually a bit dark too, so that doesn't help.

My guess is that you're still young enough not to have this type of vision focus issues up close with tiny text. My hope is that you don't when you get older. However, a lot of people do.

Shouldn't you be wearing your glasses anyway? I mean, if you can't see well without them, are you even enjoying HD clarity without wearing them?

Only need them for reading small print up close. Hence the term "reading glasses" in my post. :rolleyes:

If those combos cost not more than a usual hd dvd I'm in. At Amazon you'll get most under $25 after some days. Good price I think.

Everything is ok with HD DVDs. Some decent releases, falling prices of harware...Still the lead ;-)

Sure you do. It's a term that is being used incorrectly with regard to combos and it shouldn't be applied to them. Lesson needed. And lesson will certainly be ignored, as per the above.
Actually, without giving it any thought at all I assumed (I almost said "thought" again :)) that combos would be flippers. Doesn't really matter to me if they are or not.

larry

Only need them for reading small print up close. Hence the term "reading glasses" in my post. :rolleyes:

I still think you’re making a big deal out of nothing, take a second to put on your glasses and insert the disc in the player. I would think it’s always the side that’s faced up anyway :rolleyes:

There sure are a lot of :rolleyes: in here. lol. But seriously, this thread is ridiculous. If some people don't like the flippers or doubled sided discs, big deal. It's their opinion and they are fully entitled to it. Also making snide remarks about the offical name of the disc and making fun of their eyesight is not going to help. If you want to change someone's mind, being pretentious is not how to do it. Just accept the fact the some people don't like combos because they are doubled sided and move along. Jeesh.

This thread illustrates that the combo/flipper 'trojan horse' solution for marketing HD-DVD might not be so clever after all. I assume (and it is just a personal view without ANY hard evidence - someone's bound to ask!) that the thinking behind this is to tempt SD DVD buyers into building up a library of HD material in readiness for their eventual purchase of a HD-DVD player. I can't think of many scenarios where a HD-DVD customer would want to buy the SD version of a film where the HD version was available.

However, people have said it's great because they can play the SD version on their laptop or another room in the house etc. Maybe dad can watch the HD on the big screen and then loan it to the kids to watch elsewhere in SD.

I can see this happening for a small number of people and working fine but I believe the people investing in HD, in the main, want the best AV experience and a high quality package to match it. This *does* mean disc art and a HD only product - no contamination! Whether Universal going almost completely combo/flipper has a positive impact time will tell, but speaking as a collector I am not interested. At the moment, living in the UK, I haven't made the HD move but things like SD/HD combos and TotalHD are turning me off.

When I go out to buy a HD product all I want is a HD product. Get it Universal? If I want a reduced quality version then I can buy that also at the same shop can't I. I don't need a studio deciding what I want. I thank you.

I still think you’re making a big deal out of nothing, take a second to put on your glasses and insert the disc in the player. I would think it’s always the side that’s faced up anyway :rolleyes:

You know, you're right. I only need to make sure the text is "up". I don't have to actually read it. I've only got one or two combos, so I didn't really remember which side had the text on it.

I won't be missing out on anything. I'll just rent them or buy them as a non combo import if available.

so in order for you to save money, you're spending more money and buying the imported version? Combo disc = US$27 max, imported HD-DVD US$32 - US$42.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

so in order for you to save money, you're spending more money and buying the imported version? Combo disc = US$27 max, imported HD-DVD US$32 - US$42.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Makes no sense, huh? You bring up a very good point to his argument.

Disc art is not that important, people.

one suggestion:

if you REALLY don't need the SD side at all, just write the letters "HD" on that surface. BIG and BOLD letters, I might add. This way, even without glasses, in the darkened room, eyes just recently poked with a red-hot poker, you'll still know that if the side with "HD" writing is facing up, you'll be watching HD. (see picture below)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/sapiendut/HD.jpg

ok, color me old, but when I think "flippers" I think dolphins..

but if you want to talk about horrible flipping of optical media.. I have two words..
CAV LaserDisc

Turn lights on and insert disc, turn lights off and enjoy the movie. This is really reaching folksReally.... It pretty much ruins the whole experience especially if it takes you a minute or two to realize your mistake and then the two minutes or so it takes my A1 to eject and then reload the disk. In the mean time I hope my lighting macros didn't get out of synch, and the wife sitting there with that WTF are you doing now look on her face.:rolleyes:

For the record, I'm 20-20 at distance so you arrogant young whippersnappers will just have to wait until you are 40 something to understand what happens to your eyes after spending years staring at computer screens. :eek:

I also have a laser disk player and a LP player :eek: and they are flippers, but guess what? They both actually have labels that are readable. :D

Makes no sense, huh? You bring up a very good point to his argument.

Disc art is not that important, people.Correction not important to you. To be honest my real beef with flippers is I'm paying $8 more for no art work and a side I will never play.

Seriously, who cares what people call them.

ok, color me old, but when I think "flippers" I think dolphins..

but if you want to talk about horrible flipping of optical media.. I have two words..
CAV LaserDisc
A significant point, which does have some relevance here... Two reasons I never got LD:

1) Cost
2) Flippers

Now, flipping to get extras is not as bad as LD, but it's still bad.
Similarly, the cost of HD DVD combos are not as high as LD was, but it's still usually bad.

Hasn't anyone heard of LASIK. After wearing glasses for almost 30 years and contacts for 23 years, it's nice not be relaint on either one. I can see close, far and in between now.

so in order for you to save money, you're spending more money and buying the imported version? Combo disc = US$27 max, imported HD-DVD US$32 - US$42.

It's not all about saving money with me. I'm willing to pay for what I want the way I want it. And not having something I really dislike and don't want forced on me.

one suggestion:

if you REALLY don't need the SD side at all, just write the letters "HD" on that surface. BIG and BOLD letters, I might add. This way, even without glasses, in the darkened room, eyes just recently poked with a red-hot poker, you'll still know that if the side with "HD" writing is facing up, you'll be watching HD. (see picture below)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/sapiendut/HD.jpg
You are on to something here. How about if the studios put a sticker on the DVD side that people can peel off if they want to watch the DVD side? Charge the same price as HD DVD -- specifically $20 at Walmart (I noticed that it was almost always the combos that were not priced at $20.) Since I can tell that people on AVS are really concerned about terminology we can call them "stickers" -- almost rhymes with "flippers."

ok, color me old, but when I think "flippers" I think dolphins..

but if you want to talk about horrible flipping of optical media.. I have two words..
CAV LaserDisc

The Wild Bunch on laserdisc. . . man . . . great times, great times.

I was browsing DVD Reviewer and came across their definition of a DVD flipper:

"Flipper:
A flipper is a DVD disc which holds information on both sides of the disc. Because DVD players only play one side of a disc at a time, this means that at some stage the disc must be removed from the player and turned over. There are effectively two types of flipper – those which spread a film over two sides of a disc, and those which have a film on one side, and some extra material on the second side. The first is truly unforgivable with the modern technology of higher capacity discs available, while the second is only slightly more acceptable. DVD-18 discs are also considered to be flippers, although they usually fall into the second category. Flippers make life especially difficult for users with DVD multichangers. "

So a HD-DVD combo really is a FLIPPER after all!! How dare those marketeers on these boards try to tell us different!

I think Universal should be proud of their new flippers and sell them as such. First there was HD-DVD, then Blu-ray and "NOW..HD-FLIPPER - you get a great HD experience on one side + a reminder of the bad old days on the other (or some extras)". People will be falling over themselves to snap them up. :D

A lot of the combos have the extras on the SD side, while the HD side is movie only. So by the definitions given, I guess that makes them flippers.

...those which have a film on one side, and some extra material on the second side.
Then I stand corrected. For the record though, I am not a combo "marketeer". I dislike combos as much as anyone, I was arguing terminology.

Is it the lack of disc art? That doesn't matter when the movie is playing in the player

since once they're in your HD DVD player, they function exactly the same as a non-combo HD DVD.

3)I don't think you will be looking at disc art, you will be looking at the image on your screen :p

So would you pay extra for a movie that came in a blank DVD case with no box art? It doesn't matter when the movie is playing in the player. Once it's in your player it would function exactly the same as an HD DVD with box art, and you won't be looking at the box art, you will be looking at the image on your screen.

Would you pay extra for a movie that had expletives about your mother printed on the top of the disc? It doesn't matter when the movie is playing in the player. Once it's in your player it would function exactly the same as an HD DVD without expletives about your mother printed on the disc, and you won't be looking at the disc, you will be looking at the image on your screen.

Would you pay extra for a new pink and green polkadot paintjob on your car? It doesn't matter when you're driving the car. Once you're inside the car it functions exactly the same as a car without a pink and green polkadot paintjob, and you won't be looking at the paintjob, you will be looking at the interior of the car and the road.

Some people like box art even though it has no effect on the movie. Some people don't like having expletives about their mother printed on their things. Some people like cars with a nice looking exterior even though they drive them from the inside. And yes, some people like disc art even though it doesn't make the resolution on the movie any higher. Who are you to decide which of these are important to which people? The fact is there obviously ARE people out there that care, that's why we see posts about it. I could sit here and say I just can't understand why people need big TVs at high resolutions when you still get the content just as well on a smaller SDTV, but no matter how many times I say it it's not going to make it any less important to you, so why do you think you can convince people that a lack of cover art (which is clearly an issue many people are having) doesn't matter?

So would you pay extra for a movie that came in a blank DVD case with no box art? It doesn't matter when the movie is playing in the player. Once it's in your player it would function exactly the same as an HD DVD with box art, and you won't be looking at the box art, you will be looking at the image on your screen.
From page one of this thread:

Although I agree that artwork on the disc would be nice, the lack of it wouldn't keep me from buying a combo of a movie I like.
And given that I'm a graphic designer, have designed several custom HD DVD covers, and have written posts here before on my appreciation of good movie art, I don't really understand what point your tirade was supposed to prove.

If we follow it to it's logical conclusion, we may as well shut down the AVS forums and go home, as there is no point discussing anything with anybody, since we all have different opinions on everything.

Nobody in this thread was arguing that we should feel OK about paying more for a combo because it functions the same as any other disc once it's in the player (which I think is what you were getting at). What I find curious are the people who hate combos not because of the higher price or lack of disc art, but simply because they are "flippers". Which is odd, all things being equal, because unlike the old DVD flippers, you don't have to flip them to see the whole movie. Which means the fact that it's a "flipper" is meaningless once it's in your player.

Oops, I forgot. No point talking about it.

The disc should load itself automatically. Haven't they fixed this problem yet?"... :rolleyes:

My record player loaded itself!!!!!!

Although I agree that artwork on the disc would be nice, the lack of it wouldn't keep me from buying a combo of a movie I like.

You and me both, that doesn't make it true for everyone though.

If we follow it to it's logical conclusion, we may as well shut down the AVS forums and go home, as there is no point discussing anything with anybody, since we all have different opinions on everything.

Snide comments aside, I see where you're going with this but I think you're taking it too far. There's a difference between discussing opinions and the tangible reasons behind them and saying what was said in the 3 quotes I picked out, which was essentially "well that's a dumb reason".

I like art on my disc? Why? I dunno, I just do. There's no tangible reason, I just like it, and it matters to me. Not to the point where I'd refuse to buy any disc without it, but to the point where it certainly is one of the factors in my decision and while I'd purchase a "must buy" either way it could actually persuade me against a more casual buy.

There is obviously merit to discussing and trading our opinions with each other. That's not what happened here. What happened here is you (and/or the people in the other quotes, I'm not going to go back and dig through it all again now) asked why people didn't like flippers, and got one of the reasons and basically brushed it aside.

I can't really think of any Sony movies I like, so in the HD/BD war the fact that Sony is BD exclusive means nothing to me. That doesn't mean that if I were discussing HD vs. BD with someone and they said one of the reasons they preferred BD was because Sony pictures were BD exclusive I would brush it aside and say that didn't matter in the grand scheme of things because I personally don't like any Sony movies. How do you think that would fly over on the BD boards?

That's essentially what's happened here. In a dumbed down fashion it went...

P1: Why don't people like flippers?
P2: Well one of the reasons is because I like cover art on the disc.
P1: Well that's a stupid reason, you can't see the cover art when the movie is playing anyways so who cares?

What I find curious are the people who hate combos not because of the higher price or lack of disc art, but simply because they are "flippers".

And in that sense what I'm saying is unrelated, but that's not the only direction the thread has headed. I was responding more to the statements ABOUT the lack of disc art (mostly made by people other than you) specifically.

Back when we had flipper DVDs, we had to flip the disc over to watch the second half of the movie, or the extras.

Combo HD DVDs are not like that, except for some with the extras. You don't flip the disc over to watch the whole movie.

They are double-sided discs, not "flippers".

Also, the only thing you are missing is disc art, and the top side is always the regular DVD side. If you don't care about that side, then it doesn't matter if you put fingerprints all over it.

I am just pointing this out to people who refuse to buy combos on principle rather than on price. ;)

You have your definition and I have mine. I say they're flippers.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t262/polyh3dron/07-minister.jpg

I like art on my disc? Why? I dunno, I just do. There's no tangible reason, I just like it, and it matters to me. Not to the point where I'd refuse to buy any disc without it, but to the point where it certainly is one of the factors in my decision and while I'd purchase a "must buy" either way it could actually persuade me against a more casual buy.
I agree 100%. But you did take one of my comments out of context to make it seem as though I was making a comment on disc art and/or price, when I was doing nothing of the sort.

Anyway, it's done. Thanks for the reply.

Back when we had flipper DVDs, we had to flip the disc over to watch the second half of the movie, or the extras.

Combo HD DVDs are not like that, except for some with the extras. You don't flip the disc over to watch the whole movie.

They are double-sided discs, not "flippers".

Also, the only thing you are missing is disc art, and the top side is always the regular DVD side. If you don't care about that side, then it doesn't matter if you put fingerprints all over it.

I am just pointing this out to people who refuse to buy combos on principle rather than on price. ;)

Sorry, but I want the disc art and have no need for the standard DVD side. If Universal chooses to do this with 90% of their releases this year. I'm afraid I will be buying 90% Blu-Ray discs this year.

You have your definition and I have mine. I say they're flippers.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t262/polyh3dron/07-minister.jpg

Same here.

And yet they remain flippers. Deplorable, disgusting, more expensive, horrible flippers.

As such, any combo at any time could be a flipper.

Thus they are all flippers because they all have the potential in their heart of hearts to be a flipper.

I want the disc art. I don't want to pay for a DVD side. Therefore, I deplore flippers. Any chance I get, I'll buy the BD version of a movie to avoid the flipper and hope someday that the HD DVD studios get the picture. A lot of us don't want this plague upon our discs.

And I challenge anyone who wants to use their DVD side of their expensive HD DVD "flipper" combo to give one to their kids to let them use in the minivan on their way to soccer practice for a few weeks and then extoll how scratch resistance that HD DVD side is when IT is the "art side."

Uh huh. Easier for the minority who like the flipper combo's to go out and buy the DVD themselves and let us who just want the HD DVD side have ours by itself. Of course, let's not forget. Flipper combos are what the HD DVD group (Universal and Microsoft) are using to justify the continued existence of HD DVD over BD, so clearly they're going to push it as hard as they possibly can. ;)


Nice logic. I will just tell the kids they will have to wait until the HD or BD portable player comes out to watch it in the car on the trip to nanas.

And then I will tell the wife that I need to pull together another 2.5 grand to replace the DVD player in my bedroom, the kids' rooms and the rec room.

Sweet I am sure she will get a kick out of that.

I see your point it is just easier to buy two of each and then I can take out a wall for the extra shelving I will need for my double format library. Hell I will just have the Kids bunk together and take over their room.

Anyway I do agree that the older titles Pre 2000 really don't need to be in dual format as many of us already have the DVD-(350+/-) myself. But why be forced to spend 50 bucks on to pieces of plastic? When I can have one for 30 bucks.

Nice logic. I will just tell the kids they will have to wait until the HD or BD portable player comes out to watch it in the car on the trip to nanas.

And then I will tell the wife that I need to pull together another 2.5 grand to replace the DVD player in my bedroom, the kids' rooms and the rec room.

Sweet I am sure she will get a kick out of that.

I see your point it is just easier to buy two of each and then I can take out a wall for the extra shelving I will need for my double format library. Hell I will just have the Kids bunk together and take over their room.

Anyway I do agree that the older titles Pre 2000 really don't need to be in dual format as many of us already have the DVD-(350+/-) myself. But why be forced to spend 50 bucks on to pieces of plastic? When I can have one for 30 bucks.

In case you haven't noticed, most DVDs aren't $25 anymore and none stay there for long.

Just today BB put up another $4.99 sale on DVDs that included a slew of discs available on HD-DVD. For less than the extra cost of the combo you can play them in your car AND your movie room at the same time and not have to worry about the kids destroying that $30 disc and have the disc art and the option to only spend the extra money on the ones you know you want the SD part of (which for most of us, is pretty much none of them) instead of having to buy it for that violent gory movie that the kids will never be watching in the van.

In case you haven't noticed, most DVDs aren't $25 anymore and none stay there for long.

Just today BB put up another $4.99 sale on DVDs that included a slew of discs available on HD-DVD. For less than the extra cost of the combo you can play them in your car AND your movie room at the same time and not have to worry about the kids destroying that $30 disc and have the disc art and the option to only spend the extra money on the ones you know you want the SD part of (which for most of us, is pretty much none of them) instead of having to buy it for that violent gory movie that the kids will never be watching in the van.

Usually those sales are getting rid of extra and older inventory. Stuff I already have or don't want. I can see backing up some of the "kid movies" with dvd so they don't destroy the disk. But I also like to back up my new movies to dvix for zen: vision w for trips. I can't do that on Hd or Bd and I don't want the extra movies laying around all over the place. Universal is not the only one that will have "Flippers". Warner is going to give us the ultimate "flipper".

Anyway you make a good argument but there will be a good portion of people that will enjoy the dual format and that will be a reason for buying.

I am trying to picture how big of a brick the portable hd dvd player will be.

Universal is not the only one that will have "Flippers". Warner is going to give us the ultimate "flipper".

So, we will have the old 2 sided SD DVD flippers, Universal SD/HD DVD flippers and Warner Blu-ray/HD DVD fippers. This sounds really user friendly.

Call them whatever you like. I still don't like them and will not buy them.


but will you eat them in a car, those green eggs and ham