Right now i have my bass on my onkyo at +4 and my gain turned a little lower, would i get better performance if i turned up the gain on my sub and lowered the bass on the receiver or is it the same thing? Sometimes the SVS sub just wont turn on when i want it to so i had to turn the bass on the receiver up. It is a PB 12 NSD and a Onkyo SR 503 receiver, just wasnt sure if was cutting the subs potential, the sub right now is turned about half way, the bass is pretty good but hasnt really made my jaw drop or anything, and im not looking for loudness, just clean deep sound

I have my dual Pb10 gain at 12 o'clock position and from the scale of -10 0 10+ on the reciever, I've set it at 0. I have both subs at the on position due to both subs going into auto standby at night when listening to some tunes at -60 mv, if I were to use the auto on feature. I would set the gain knob at the 9 o'clock position for it to stay on. On this part of the question you asked, it's best if you get yourself an spl meter and calibrate the sub to match with the mains. I just calibrate mine with my ear so take it with a grain of pepper and salt. :D I just prefer things to have more bass.

Btw, if you want to improve the bass on your PB12 NSD, Place it on the foam that came with shipped with the sub. It would fit right perfectly onto it and just cut a few inches so you can remove the grill afterwards. If the foam would look such an eyesore to you or your spouse grab a subdude or gramma. I had more defined bass and tighter when I placed my stack Pb10 this way, even when they're corner loaded with the driver facing the wall to reduce any kinds of port noise under heavy bass scenes. Give it a shot, you might like it. :D

I think i have it too loud right now, but i hate how the sub wont kick in unless there is alot of bass going on, in movies it turns on quickly, i think im just being paranoid, unfortunately i have to have my sub back behind my couch, cant have in infront because of a narrow room and walkway infront of the projection screen

all the gain controls (which in reality are nothing more than attenuators in this case) in the chain do the same thing. I would suggest setting them so that you are not near the extremes of any one of the controls...if your AVR has an adjustment from -10 to +10, then I would aim for -5 to +5 and set the amp accordingly...the reason for this is that resistors/attenuators generally loose their linearity near the extremes (of course this depends on the quality of the resistor network), but why take the chance.
You could also be introducing clipping or distortion if any one of the controls is too high.

all the gain controls (which in reality are nothing more than attenuators in this case) in the chain do the same thing. I would suggest setting them so that you are not near the extremes of any one of the controls...if your AVR has an adjustment from -10 to +10, then I would aim for -5 to +5 and set the amp accordingly...the reason for this is that resistors/attenuators generally loose their linearity near the extremes (of course this depends on the quality of the resistor network), but why take the chance.
You could also be introducing clipping or distortion if any one of the controls is too high.

I agree. It doesn't matter where either control is set with most subs as long as you allow enough headroom from both your receiver and the sub's amp. If you find that your auto on function isn't working correctly, I suggest you raise the receiver's line level output and lower the subs gain control accordingly.

Ian

yeah i have the sub at +4 now, last night episode 2 was on and it was during some action sequences near the end and the receiver was at level 28 and the sub was not kicking in, this was when everything was set to zero. I used to have at +8 which was probably too much, this time i have it at +4 but i never turned the gain down, haha, i have my cable box connected to the AVR through regular red white plugs it has optical out option ( which is the connection i am using for my dvd player), i have not really noticed a problem with the sub activating on my dvd player...do you think if i use optical connectionon my cable box that will help?

do you think if i use optical connectionon my cable box that will help
Yes. By using only the red/white stereo plugs to connect the cable box to the AVR, you are not passing DD5.1 to the AVR. You are not passing any of the .1 LFE track to the AVR. You are missing ALOT of the soundtrack as it was intended to be reproduced.

Use either optical digital or coax digital to connect the cable box audio to the AVR.


Tim

I think the best thing you can do for improved bass response is to try relocating your sub. Put it closer to the corner of the room (still along the back wall) and then slowly move it around till it sounds the best. I have my sub on a table sitting on a small rug, three feet off the ground and that improved bass response and decreased the floor shakes. It is also corner loaded, by the listening couches. (10 inch HSU sub.) Cables should not change the bass, nor reciever as the bass has its own amp.

Anka.

Right now i have the front of the front firing sb 12 facing the couch along side the back of the room, if i turn it around it will face the corner of the room which is a glass wall, the room isnt too big and the rest of the walls are concrete, so the bass performance is pretty good, was just wondering if i could do anything for the sub to auto activate better

Many receivers produce more distorsion and even clipping on their sub line output when it set to at the "0" midpoint or above. So I would keep it below "0" and raise the sub's gain accordingly.

Right now i have the front of the front firing sb 12 facing the couch along side the back of the room, if i turn it around it will face the corner of the room which is a glass wall, the room isnt too big and the rest of the walls are concrete, so the bass performance is pretty good, was just wondering if i could do anything for the sub to auto activate better

SVS gives you the "ON" position just for that.
On many subs the auto-on does not actually turn off current to the amp, it just disconnects the driver from the amp. I don't know for a fact that the SB12-Plus does it this way, but I can tell you that the plate amps on my my SB12-Plus's are exactly as warm idling in the "ON" or the "AUTO" positions. Be happy SVS gave you a solid ON position, many sub manufacturers do not.

Many receivers produce more distorsion and even clipping on their sub line output when it set to at the "0" midpoint or above. So I would keep it below "0" and raise the sub's gain accordingly.

agree 100%, Velodyne suggests the same, going under for the Sub output on pre-amps, I have mine on -4 out of -10 to +10, I then use the SMS for proper volume as my subs have a nice THX set fixed-volume position that they can be set to

-Gary

How are your speakers set up in the receiver? They should all be set to small, with an appropriate crossover setting like 80Hz. If they are set to Large, the subwoofer won't get nearly as much bass, which could be the problem - especially if you aren't watching with the volume very high (high being close to the calibrated reference level, 15 notches or closer).

Also, the sub needs to be calibrated, if it hasn't already. An SPL meter is necessary for this (digital RS meters are more accurate than the analog ones), along with the receiver's test tones (I believe Onkyo receivers have sub tones) or the Avia setup disc (much better).

Velodyne suggests the same, going under for the Sub output on pre-amps, I have mine on -4 out of -10 to +10, I then use the SMS for proper volume as my subs have a nice THX set fixed-volume position that they can be set to

Not on all their subs. On the VRP series they recommend less gain and more line level output for max performance. This is due to their lower input sensitivity. As a general rule however, you should calibrate your sub at -5 and go from.there, but on some subs like the Velo VRP series 0 is a better starting point. I have used three HTR's and with settings as high as +6db to the Velo, I never had an issue with distortion or with the auto function.

Ian

Posts: 5,656 How are your speakers set up in the receiver? They should all be set to small, with an appropriate crossover setting like 80Hz. If they are set to Large, the subwoofer won't get nearly as much bass, which could be the problem

Speaker settings should be dependent on your speakers LF tuning point. There is nothing wrong with setting your speakers to large if they are full range. This just means that all the bass below the crossover point will go to both the subwoofer and main speakers. The subwoofer still gets the same amount of bass regardless of the speaker size setting unless all of your speakers are set to large. This is from Yamaha's HTR fact sheet in regards to speaker set up using their standard 90hz crossover point:

When setting the LFE/Bass Out to Both or Main, what is the effect ?
When you are using a powered sub woofer and the LFE/Bass out is set to both; frequencies from 90Hz – 20Hz are sent to the sub woofer, as well as the speakers who are set to Large. If you set the LFE/Bass Output to Main, then frequencies from 90Hz - 20Hz are sent only to the main speakers, only if the main speakers are set to large. If the main speakers are set to small, then only frequencies from 20Khz – 90Hz are sent to the main speakers. If all speakers are set to large, then the LFE/Bass Output is mute.

Ian

Speaker settings should be dependent on your speakers LF tuning point. There is nothing wrong with setting your speakers to large if they are full range. This just means that all the bass below the crossover point will go to both the subwoofer and main speakers. The subwoofer still gets the same amount of bass regardless of the speaker size setting unless all of your speakers are set to large. This is from Yamaha's HTR fact sheet in regards to speaker set up using their standard 90hz crossover point:



Whether the bass goes to the mains only or the mains and the sub depends on whether LFE is set to "Both" or "Main," as the section from the manual you quoted suggests and contradicts what you have written above here. It seems you are confused about this fact.

And just because speakers are rated "full range" doesn't mean it's a good idea to run them full range. A dedicated 12" sub with 300w can produce 30Hz much better than a 6" woofer in a 2- or 3-way tower running off of 100w from the receiver, which is being shared across the 30-20KHz spectrum. Plus, if that 6" driver is trying to reproduce 30hz, even though it may be capable, it could be muddying up the rest of the frequencies that driver is trying to produce. At least for movie soundtracks at high levels. Now, if a speaker has a built-in powered subwoofer, that is a different story (or using smaller 10~12" subs, one paired to each main, with a larger "main" LFE subwoofer). But personally I'd still set them to small and use a 40~50hz crossover and let the real subwoofer handle the deep stuff.



However, getting back on topic, my post was addressing the fact that perhaps the subwoofer in question is not getting enough bass because the speakers are set to Large and the subwoofer is only seeing bass sent through the LFE channel. And the fact that the OP "hasn't been impressed" by the bass yet.

Whether the bass goes to the mains only or the mains and the sub depends on whether LFE is set to "Both" or "Main," as the section from the manual you quoted suggests and contradicts what you have written above here. It seems you are confused about this fact.

Cy:
The purpose of the "both" setting is to send all the bass to the sub and to all the satellites that are set to large. If you have the setting on "main" and the speakers set to large all the bass below the crossover setting will go only to the mains and the sub. When all the speakers are set to large, then the sub is mute. This excludes the LFE channel which only goes to the sub if a sub is installed. When I refer to full range I'm refereing to speakers that have reasonably good output below 50HZ. I use speakers with a tuning point of 40hz. I have my setting on "main" not "both" and my main speakers set to large. All the bass below my crossover setting goes to the sub and the mains. The LFE channel goes just to the sub. In my particular case, I have less localization problems and better bass results over all. See link below for more info on this subject.

http://www.hometheatersound.com/features/cinemacynergy/cc_20010701.htm

Regards,
Ian

Yes the speakers are set to small and crossover is at 80hz, sorry i said sb12 i meant the standard PB 12 NSD is what i have

Guys,

Reread the following, which is the 2nd post by the OP in this thread.

yeah i have the sub at +4 now, last night episode 2 was on and it was during some action sequences near the end and the receiver was at level 28 and the sub was not kicking in, this was when everything was set to zero. I used to have at +8 which was probably too much, this time i have it at +4 but i never turned the gain down, haha, i have my cable box connected to the AVR through regular red white plugs it has optical out option ( which is the connection i am using for my dvd player), i have not really noticed a problem with the sub activating on my dvd player...do you think if i use optical connectionon my cable box that will help?

The problem as he defines it is occurring when he is watching movies on his cable box, which is connected to his AVR via stereo RCA plugs. He is not getting a 5.1 signal via that connection.

Conversely, he is not having a problem while playing DVDs because he is correctly using the digital optical connection for his DVD player.


Tim

I have it hooked up with Fiber Optic now, bass was alot more clear and booming, but it still takes alot for the sub to auto activate, there is a tone setting on my onkyo that lets me up the bass / treble, if i turn that up and then the level on the sub down will this help?

Usually the bass/treble controls only affect the signals to the left/right mains (I know it's this way on my father's Onkyo, maybe the 502).

But you say "28" on the receiver. Maybe the 503 is very different, but at least with my father's 503, it goes from 0 up to about 85 or 90 or so. I used Avia and calibrated everything so that "85" on his dial is 85dB with Avia's test tones, meaning that's reference level. They usually watch DVDs at about 65-75 on the dial. So 28, at least on his system, would be extremely low.

Anyway, make sure you don't have DRC/night mode turned on, as this will greatly reduce the bass.

Make sure your speakers are set to small, an try turning up the sub level in the receiver about 3 notches, and turn down the sub's gain to compensate. Best to use an SPL meter to make sure you're calibrated properly. If you still have a problem, even when you are watching at proper (loud) levels, contact SVS - maybe something is faulty with the auto-on detection.

yeah 28 is like half way, it goes up to 65, ill test it out