I'm curious if anybody has more solid info on the new Ultra 13, or can speculate based on good info. (Ed?)

1) Release date? The website says "Spring", which to me means anywhere from March 21 to June 20. I would love to narrow it down a little.

2) Extension/SPL? Kind of thinking it will be closer to the f113, maybe 90-95% of the performance at 2/3 the cost.

3) I'm really curious about the flexibility/tuning that can be done - maybe this one can be answered. How easy is it to change the tuning and/or open/seal ports? Is this something that is quick and easy-open 'em up for HT for max SPL, close 'em back down for music in just a few seconds? I would love to be able to do that.

I don't know which will be readily available first, Ultra13 or SubMersive (first choice - whichever I can get sooner), but if they are both still 2-3 months away, that Fathom may be too tempting, in spite of the $$$. I know the Hsu HO w/turbo should also be in the running, but I don't think I can be looking at it all the time. (location is somewhat limited, it would be in left front corner of room and very visible).

I think I'm running out of patience. :o

I have no idea about the exact release date,only SVS insiders may have this answer.

Two,I have little doubt the new Ultra sub using one driver will best slightly the f113 in output,if the designers have done a proper job.Even a slightly more capable adapted/modded W7 cannot overcome a mighty woofer with slightly less displacement if the vented design is fully optimised.

Extension,the f113 will have better down extremly deep.The new Ultra will have more above 14Hz,or most of the usable spectrum.Just a guess,should be comnfirmed when the actual units ship and are tested.

...the Fathom f113 is here and now.And it is a monster performer viewed from any angle(depth,SPL,definition andmore definition in a way none surpasses so far!). :p

From what Tom has posted to date, prices on the single driver Ultra models will be announced by early March and preorders will start by early April. My current guess is that shipping may start in early May.

The enclosure design drawings on the CES cut sheets (links are in News on the SVS site) show a SVS tri-port configuration -- I have no reason to believe that changing tune has changed: Plug/unplug a port, flip a switch.

I agree with ggunnell, and I also would not be too surprised to see a version of the room contouring type of controls that are currently included in the SB12-Plus amp. That would be in addition to the PEQ controls from the current Ultra amp.

Tim

From what Tom has posted to date, prices on the single driver Ultra models will be announced by early March and preorders will start by early April. My current guess is that shipping may start in early May.

The enclosure design drawings on the CES cut sheets (links are in News on the SVS site) show a SVS tri-port configuration -- I have no reason to believe that changing tune has changed: Plug/unplug a port, flip a switch.
I was afraid it was going to be awhile. Put in an e-mail to a local Jl dealer who has them in stock - probably going to try 1 more audition and (gulp!), plunk down the $$$$. :eek:

I was afraid it was going to be awhile. Put in an e-mail to a local Jl dealer who has them in stock - probably going to try 1 more audition and (gulp!), plunk down the $$$$. :eek:

Ya, I am getting tired of waiting too! If there weren't over 100% markups from the dealer I would jump on one. I thought Velodyne had the only insane markups. I don't mind dealers making a profit, but I just refuse to pay over $3000 for something the dealer pays under $2000 for.

From what I hear, the Ultra 13/2 will not be that beautiful downfiring end table design...
Which leaves a stacked 30 plus " tall front firing unit.. hmmm
not as pretty IMO... :(

From what I hear, the Ultra 13/2 will not be that beautiful downfiring end table design...
Which leaves a stacked 30 plus " tall front firing unit.. hmmm
not as pretty IMO... :(

I have been hearing the same. I think the size will be much more prohibitive this time around. I wish they would put the Ultra drivers in a smaller sealed configuration like the Gothams or even the old Ultra/2 for that matter.

I am also really curious as to what the new "special" amp will be.

I have been hearing the same. I think the size will be much more prohibitive this time around. I wish they would put the Ultra drivers in a smaller sealed configuration like the Gothams or even the old Ultra/2 for that matter.

I am also really curious as to what the new "special" amp will be.


Not to be argumentative, but if they placed the drivers in a small, sealed cabinet, it would take longer to design, and would take 2-3 times the amplifier power to drive it properly, thus shooting the price up and then SVS subs wouldn't be the great value that they are.

I have been hearing the same. I think the size will be much more prohibitive this time around. I wish they would put the Ultra drivers in a smaller sealed configuration like the Gothams or even the old Ultra/2 for that matter.



I do recall reading somewhere that there will be more in the line of SVS sealed subs coming, following the lead of the SB12+.

Not to be argumentative, but if they placed the drivers in a small, sealed cabinet, it would take longer to design, and would take 2-3 times the amplifier power to drive it properly, thus shooting the price up and then SVS subs wouldn't be the great value that they are.

Nothing arguementative here. However, I can say with almost 100% certainty SVS will put the new Ultra driver in a small sealed cube. It may take another 12-24 months but it WILL happen. I don't think they can afford to abandon that market segment. I just wish they would have done that first. Sure it takes greater effort, but it is my opinion that the market is moving in that direction. Advancements in drivers and related electronics have increased output, linearity, extension etc. to unprecedented levels from sealed cabinets.

The size of the current Ultra/2 when compared to the F113 is a monster in size. The new Ultra/2 will most likely be 50% or more larger yet. Of course the Ultra/2 is still cheaper, but the Fathoms are more sophisticated in most respects. Granted the new Ultra/2 output will be tremendous, no doubt, but not cheap either. Again, my opinion, I think most users when the choice is presented will select the smaller cabinet. Not to mention there are those that prefer the sound of a sealed cabinet as well.

So, I think comparitively speaking the SVS models, sealed or not will still be less expensive than other commercial offerings with similiar amplifier power and the like. I am sure that the profit margin on SVS is product is much less than that or the Fathom for example, expecially when considering all the middle men involved.

If JL can get $3K (with 100% markup) for a single driver enclosure, I am quite sure SVS could do it for at least $1000 less and do it quite well and profitably.

As far as coming out with a sealed version first, note the delay on the dual driver ported units. Note that the amp size would be roughly the same for a dual ported and a single sealed. :)

As far as SVS being able to build a single sealed at $2k, they'll have to do better than that: Seaton's Submersive dual sealed is $2k ...

Ya, I am getting tired of waiting too! If there weren't over 100% markups from the dealer I would jump on one. I thought Velodyne had the only insane markups. I don't mind dealers making a profit, but I just refuse to pay over $3000 for something the dealer pays under $2000 for.

Everything that you own has a huge markup. :confused:

As far as coming out with a sealed version first, note the delay on the dual driver ported units. Note that the amp size would be roughly the same for a dual ported and a single sealed. :)

As far as SVS being able to build a single sealed at $2k, they'll have to do better than that: Seaton's Submersive dual sealed is $2k ...

Notice I said at least $1000 less. Whatever the price is, I am sure it will be a bargain and priced appropriately. Those guys at SVS are not stupid, they won't make it if it is not competitive and profitable. ;)

Everything that you own has a huge markup. :confused:

Well, everything has a huge MSRP of course that is not what we pay, at least I try not to.

I paid $2100 from an internet retailer for my TV that Circuit City had for $3799. Dealer cost was around $1600. If you want to pay $3300 for something that is produced for under $1000 that is up to the individual and their value of money. There were dealers selling the F113 for well under $2500 ( some for $1995) before the first reviews came out. That is the bonus with an internet based company, at least one less middle man. So, my point is, there is plenty of room to make a profit on a small sealed Ultra.

I am sure the Submersive is a great unit, however again not as small and not nearly as sophisticated, no auto-EQ, front controls, etc. ,not in the same category as high output small single driver cabinets.

It also a bonus in some circumstances to have dual small subs rather than a single dual driver unit, as in placement, weight, etc.

I would venture a guess that the new Ultra/2 will at least have to the performance of two indivual units, unlike the current offerings.

I'm guilty of forgetting the sealed alignment option to be offered on both the single driver Ultra13 box and cylinder. In the past, so many have commented that simply plugging the ports on a vented sub to make a comparison of ported vs sealed alignment was not accurate as each alignment needed it's own optimal volume, amp power, and EQ, that I sort of thought 'that's nice' and went on.

But although the enclosure volumes are on the large side for a sealed alignment for a 13 1/2" driver, they are not out of the question, and would match well with a smaller amp like the one SVS has chosen for the vented subs.

So although the new U13's may not floor a Fathom in sealed trim, they won't cost as much either, and will give the customer the option of either sealed or vented alignment.

So although the new U13's may not floor a Fathom in sealed trim, they won't cost as much either, and will give the customer the option of either sealed or vented alignment.

That's a good point. That will be very interesting to see how the sealed tune performs. Hopefully, it is a viable option. It sure would make the Ultra more attractive to some.

As some of you already have pointed out, I'm sure that SVS will make a compact, sealed Ultra sooner or later. But I think it's a wise move of them to do one design at a time, and since ported subs are their bread&butter it is also a great place to start.

About the size of the new Ultra/2, I think Tom mentioned that it would be about 25% larger then the current one, not a lot considering that it will have more then 2x the output.

On a sidenote, the SB12 just received reference status from Areadvd, a German website. no small feat since they tend to prefer German subs and speakers.

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2007/svs_sb12_plus.shtml

So although the new U13's may not floor a Fathom in sealed trim, they won't cost as much either, and will give the customer the option of either sealed or vented alignment.

I'm very curious about how this will turn out. Myself I'm strictly 12hz tune when using my PB12-Plus for music. In theory you can run the Plus/2 sealed since it can bypass the HP filter, but I've never heard of anyone trying this. Maybe yet another test for Craig to do? :)

I need to hurry up and make manager so I can afford an Ultra. ;-(

As some of you already have pointed out, I'm sure that SVS will make a compact, sealed Ultra sooner or later. But I think it's a wise move of them to do one design at a time, and since ported subs are their bread&butter it is also a great place to start.

About the size of the new Ultra/2, I think Tom mentioned that it would be about 25% larger then the current one, not a lot considering that it will have more then 2x the output.

On a sidenote, the SB12 just received reference status from Areadvd, a German website. no small feat since they tend to prefer German subs and speakers.

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2007/svs_sb12_plus.shtml

That would be a bonus if it were 25%, I was thnking along the lines of about 40-50% larger. Remember the old Ultra/2 was in 25 Hz tune natively. So, in order to get 2 drivers in a the same cabinet and have it in 20Hz tune 25% might be a stretch. I hope you are right and I am way off on that one.

Congrats to the SB12!

I need to hurry up and make manager so I can afford an Ultra. ;-(

Good luck! We all need to woof!

That would be a bonus if it were 25%, I was thnking along the lines of about 40-50% larger. Remember the old Ultra/2 was in 25 Hz tune natively. So, in order to get 2 drivers in a the same cabinet and have it in 20Hz tune 25% might be a stretch. I hope you are right and I am way off on that one.

Congrats to the SB12!

I think most of the reason for that it only is a 25% increase in size is because they have removed the baseplate, and the DF configuration and thereby regained some of the volume occupied by the sub for internal use.

It will maybe not be as pretty as the current DF models, but SVS have always been good at design, so I'm hpoing for the best :)

I think most of the reason for that it only is a 25% increase in size is because they have removed the baseplate, and the DF configuration and thereby regained some of the volume occupied by the sub for internal use.

It will maybe not be as pretty as the current DF models, but SVS have always been good at design, so I'm hpoing for the best :)


I just found this excerpt from another SVS post (via Google):

We have several design concepts "in play" for the Ultra/2 at this time. The last one we measured/demo-d had the same front panel "look" as the Ultra/1 we showed at CES...but with larger porting and a second driver above the first. Size will be large...nothing is set...but something 33-40% larger than your current Ultra/2 wouldn't be a terrible guess. Quite large to be sure. But when we consider that one of the new Ultra/2 subs will match TWO of your current Ultra/2 subs...it seems more reasonable(2x the performance with approx 1.4x the size..
Tom V.
SVS

I was afraid of that, Ouch!

I've tried sealing all the ports in a PB12-Ultra, but it was immediately obvious that it would need to be re-EQd to sound right this way.

I'm a little concerned about the size of the two-driver vented enclosures as well. For a 15-16 Hz tune, two U13's will require two 5" ports to keep up with the single driver enclosures -- assuming a 30" limit on port length that's a 12-14 cubic foot box. That sounds more like something I'd build on a special order basis rather than a stock item.

EDIT: Obviously my volumes estimate is too high, as 2 x the single driver enclosure volume of 5+ cubes is correct.

I would be very interested in a two driver sealed enclosure, however, especially one based on a short cylinder with a driver in each end. Such a product would be relatively lightweight and take up minimal floorspace.

On a sidenote, the SB12 just received reference status from Areadvd, a German website. no small feat since they tend to prefer German subs and speakers.

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2007/svs_sb12_plus.shtml

I fed the text through AltaVista's Babel Fish translator -- I'll not post it here in case there is some copyright issue (plus the translation is crude), but they definately liked it on the soundtrack of "A View to a Kill", and on classical music and in summary they used the word 'precise' many times -- and ended up giving it 9 out of ten stars.

I just found this excerpt from another SVS post (via Google):

We have several design concepts "in play" for the Ultra/2 at this time. The last one we measured/demo-d had the same front panel "look" as the Ultra/1 we showed at CES...but with larger porting and a second driver above the first. Size will be large...nothing is set...but something 33-40% larger than your current Ultra/2 wouldn't be a terrible guess. Quite large to be sure. But when we consider that one of the new Ultra/2 subs will match TWO of your current Ultra/2 subs...it seems more reasonable(2x the performance with approx 1.4x the size..
Tom V.
SVS

I was afraid of that, Ouch!

Ack! 25% was probably wishfull thinking on my side. But on the other hand, if your room is so large that you need the output of an Ultra/2, then the room is probably also large enough to fit it in :)

Yes, I suppose you are right. Still a bummer though for those that like 5X more than we need. ;) It should be a beast!!!!!!!

We appreciate the feedback guys, a couple of comments to try and answer a couple points above:

We're still not pegging dates or prices on the Powered Box and Powered Cylinder versions of the heavily revised Ultra model lines but the PC-Ultra will likely sneak out a bit earlier than the PB13-Ultra. I wouldn't rule out a smaller sealed Ultra addition to the "Sealed Box" (SB) family but it's not likely for 2007. Having said that, when stuff like this is expressed on forums such as this, we notice, trust me.

Were the Ultra/2 design and MTS-01 speakers fully wrapped up it might be different but both those projects are still in full swing as noted. There's a totally new amp lined up for the PB13-Ultra/PC-Ultra as well as the Ultra/2 which is one of the reasons the roll-outs have to be spaced apart a bit (and have slipped to the right from what we'd hoped when first announced).

Once the single driver Ultra's are out I'm sure the comparisons with competitive products will ensue ;^) I'm guessing we're about a month away from pre-order prices etc, but whatever is reasonably solid we'll get up on our News page as soon as we can.

While the "old" Ultra lines served us well (going all the way back to the Jurassic period to when David and Alan both had some), we're finally within a few days of selling the last few (so if that doesn't indicate the level of pressure to get these new guys out the door, nothing probably will ;^) "Late Spring" could morph into "Early Summer" but once pre-orders are announced there shouldn't be much flex left in our published ETA's on our site. Virtually everything in the supply process is already in production though, so the train "has left the station", it just hasn't arrived just yet (again, single driver versions only at the moment).

PS one other note. While we'll see more vertically oriented box subs, we're sensitive to the height issue too. One of our final design criteria was to ensure the sub would work as well and look as good on its "side" as it does "upright". This won't address the lamentation above about losing the downfiring form factor, but we are noting that subs are still oft times seen as ad hoc end tables and again appreciate this sort of feedback from AVS members.

Best regards,

Ron
SVS

thx for the update, Ron!

Thanks for helping us out with some facts Ron. They are nice to get for a change! Can you give us any more info on the amps and related feature set?

We respectfully ask for this to be taken to the SVS site for continued chat on it for at this point, with the above question, it will started to get into marketing and not really support related.

Thank you.

Actually on second thought....I please be so kind not to let this get into marketing. It is easy to do on a unreleased product as you know. But again, the above post did open it up for it...thus the concern.

SVS does have a place for this as you may be aware.

Thanks.


(Thread was briefly closed and then reopend. Thus this message.)

Actually on second thought....I please be so kind not to let this get into marketing. It is easy to do on a unreleased product as you know. But again, the above post did open it up for it...thus the concern.

SVS does have a place for this as you may be aware.


Sorry. I may have missed something, but I did not get any sense of marketing, just a company responding to speculation of a highly anticipated product line.
I am just trying to get actual factual information about the amps that will be used in their respective models...
Thanks for not closing the thread.

Thanks for the info! I may have to wait-see my rant on the JL thread. :mad:

Yes, but you messed the point that this...

"Thanks for helping us out with some facts Ron. They are nice to get for a change! Can you
give us any more info on the amps and related feature set?"

...will open the door to information that can only be taken as marketing. He did not ask for design theory or anything. It is not the intent of this site. SVS is well aware of that and thus treads lightly.

Thank you.

Whoops, sorry David! I'll try to back off on any hint of that further.

Anyway the message I was trying to impart guys, is that there will be more info trickling out soon which you'll be able to reference off our News page (for subsequent discussion here among other places).

Rather mundane things like shipping carton art, manuals etc. still are being finalized on Ultra-13 subs; but since ports, amps and cabinets are different than the PB12-Ultra and PC-Ultra's shipping today, these parts (just now arriving in Ohio as production samples) are all factors in why you haven't had some of these questions answered here or on our site already.

Thanks again for the comments/queries, of course we can always give you a direct e-mail response without making trouble for David! If you don't know who to ask a specific question that might not be appropriate here (or lead to an answer that might stray outside the rules):

Features and design goals for real and imagined products: tomv@svsound.com
Performance targets and comparisons to real and imagined products: edm@svsound.com
Easy questions about finishes, prices, and gripes about the weather: rons@svsound.com
Shipping , discounts, "where's my sub dude?" type questions: erik@svsound.com

Support questions with regards to today's products have a thread here already, we'll try to do better to pop over now that the holidays and CES are behind us.

Cheers,

Ron
SVS

Ron, how come you take the EASY questions? :-)

While the "old" Ultra lines served us well ...

"old"?
My "old" Ultra is still serving me with authority...
... as is my "old" bottle of Petrus
... as is my "old" Shelby Cobra*
... as is my "old" Spiderman #4*

I think the more appropriate term is "vintage", as in "my vintage Ultra is serving in my family room while my Ultra13 kicks in the home theater". :D
Looking forward to it,

-----------
* I wish... but you get the point.

Anyone have a educated guess as to the price increase for the Ultra 13 Series Cylinders as well as Box Subs??

Not to mention there are those that prefer the sound of a sealed cabinet as well.


How does a sealed cabinet sound different from a ported one?

Tom made it very clear yesterday that he and he alone does the pricing, and that the numbers simply aren't in yet to do so.

Tom made it very clear yesterday that he and he alone does the pricing, and that the numbers simply aren't in yet to do so.

ggunnel...check your PM

Sorry. I may have missed something, but I did not get any sense of marketing, just a company responding to speculation of a highly anticipated product line.
I am just trying to get actual factual information about the amps that will be used in their respective models...
Thanks for not closing the thread.

A few days ago SVS got banned as an advertiser on audioholics.com, and SVS employees got banned from their forums. This was due to repeated abuses of the forums with SVS ignoring complaints. On the subwoofer forum there was a very nice post by Gene explaning their decision, as it is, that post is now removed. Too bad, really, as that post was very informative.

That SVS employees are actively participating on forums is an integral part of SVS marketing. Now, that is nothing new, and happens on avsforum as well. But SVS did cross some lines several times....

I think that audioholics showed integrity in making a decision that cost them revenue.

Allsop, if you are trying to close this thread you are doing a great job.

Gene's post is still available, it's just not a 'sticky' post at the top anymore and has drifted down in the forum.

And SVSs side is here:
http://www.svsound.com/news-news.cfm

Please take this to AV123, AudioAsylum, or other sites that are hosting this discussion.

How does a sealed cabinet sound different from a ported one?
Sealed enclosures tend to produce tight, accurate bass and have a flatter frequency response curve. The usually begin to roll off their lower frequencies at a higher point, but at a much more gradual rate. They are also sometimes the enclosure of choice when looking for a music oriented system.

Ported enclosures produce louder bass than sealed enclosures for the same amount of power, and allow you to tune the box to a specific frequency to determine how the bass will sound. Higher tuning on a ported box may get louder, but at the expense of sound quality. Lower tuning may still get louder than a sealed box for a similar amount of power, and at the same time will yield deep bass and fairly good sound quality.

Personal preference and size limitations will both play a role in the decision between sealed or ported subs. If you have the room, and you want to get loud, go with a ported box. If you're limited on space or are looking for the best sound quality possible, it would generally be best to go with a sealed box. In either case, there are always some sort of concessions made to either physics or costs. If these these concessions are well chosen, either design can result in a good sounding subwoofer.

A few days ago SVS got banned as an advertiser on audioholics.com, and SVS employees got banned from their forums. This was due to repeated abuses of the forums with SVS ignoring complaints. On the subwoofer forum there was a very nice post by Gene explaning their decision, as it is, that post is now removed. Too bad, really, as that post was very informative.

That SVS employees are actively participating on forums is an integral part of SVS marketing. Now, that is nothing new, and happens on avsforum as well. But SVS did cross some lines several times....

I think that audioholics showed integrity in making a decision that cost them revenue.

I think it is a case of everyone now overreacting to things. I may not always agree with the moderator, but this is not my forum so I must respect the wishes of the moderator.
I don't want to get this thread closed so I will avoid covering this at nauseum. There are two sides to every story. If choose to take the side on audioholics, that is up to you. We could talk about who does or does not have integrity from either party, but rather let's just stick to "speculation" on the Ultra-13.