I have been scouring the forums for about a week now and I believe my eyes might start to bleed with all the information I have taken in. I am a forum noob, as you will see, but like to consider myself very picky about my video quality.

Let me present first my situation:

Presently I have a Toshiba 32HF73 that I bought in 2002 that I absolutely love. The picture is quite amazing, but the size is beginning to get to me (although I don't want to get something grossly huge). I would like to move that into my upstairs loft for a "gaming hang out" area. I have a Yamaha 5670 receiver, a Wii, an X-box (will be eventually getting a 360), a Toshiba SD-4900 DVD player (which I would like to upgrade eventually) and presently no cable TV service. When TV is watched, it is mostly my wife who doesn't much care about picture quality (and is mostly Law and Order), although decent SD quality would be expected. The room can be arranged to go as much as 10 feet away from the TV and as little as 6 feet away. We just painted the living room a dark brown and the shades can be pulled to make the room fairly dark.

I have read many of the more popular threads and ended on the "CRTs Aren't Dead" (I would link it but the forum won't let me until I have 5 posts) thread. Mr. Bob made some very convincing arguments to buying a RP-CRT and I do believe that DLP and LCD technologies look artificial and bright.

I would like to stay under $2000 for a new TV, including whatever calibration tools anyone might suggest, if at all possible. I'm not set on buying a CRT and would love suggestions. I feel like there is so much information that I have no idea where to even begin looking. My budget also has some flexibility, but I would love to go much cheaper rather than spending more.

In advance, I'd like to thank any replies to my thread.

How often do you watch DVDs? In terms of %, how would you break down your family's use of TV, DVD, and gaming?

You said you don't have cable, but what is your area cable or satellite provider? What channels / programs do you watch? Do you watch a lot of sports? Are you considering a cable or satellite subscription with your new TV?

Does your 6-10 feet viewing distance include the depth of the TV? At 10', I would go for a 60". At 6-7', I would go for a 50". At 8', 56" would represent a good compromise. Generally, it's better to buy bigger than you think you'll need, rather than smaller -- the #1 reason people upgrade on this forum is to go bigger, and doing so from the beginning will curtail the upgrade bug for a few extra years.

Do you or your wife see rainbows on DLPs? When you move your eyes from one part of the screen to another on a DLP, do you see trailing rainbows / multicolors around object edges?

Thanks for the reply.

I would say that 20% is movies, 20% is TV (TNT non-HD), and 60% is gaming. The local provider is Comcast and at least for now, we will not be getting HD service, let alone standard service. We watch very little sports and that is probably the lowest on my priority list of things to look good.

The distance does compensate for TV depth. I think this will be the size that I stick with, and anything over 50" will be quite a large upgrade. I don't want a TV over 65" as my wife would put it, "that is gimongous". Gimongous is a technical term, by the way.

As far as the rainbow goes, I haven't looked at enough DLP TVs to answer that question fully. My eyes are very sensitive to movement, as I have to have my computer CRTs above 70Hz to not see the refresh rates. I hope that helps clarify.

don't forget you'd be able to get a lot of over-the-air HD material with an antenna

If I were to look at DLP TV's, what would be a good place to look and what should I be looking for? I have been in to all the big box stores and I, regretfully, used to work for BB. The way they have their setup is not ideal for actual home use, as they chain many TV's to one feed and it is not a very accurate representation of how it will look at home.

don't forget you'd be able to get a lot of over-the-air HD material with an antenna

When is that supposed to happen for all local TV?

When is that supposed to happen for all local TV?It effectively is all local TV, if by local TV you mean the major networks.

ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX already broadcast their prime time (8-11pm) lineups in high-definition, in addition to some mid-day (soaps), late-night (Letterman, Leno), and weekend sports. The local news is already available in HD in many areas, and NBC will be doing the national news in high-def in a few months.

The nice thing about Comcast is that these high-definition locals are unencrypted on their system, which means you will get them for "free" on any TV with a QAM tuner (standard now on most HDTVs), even without any form of digital cable service. I'm guessing you subscribe to Comcast high-speed Internet and currently have the cable connected to your Toshiba 32" TV.

Comcast also offers their regional sports networks, ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, Discovery, HBO, Starz, Showtime, and a few others in high-definition, with SciFi, History, and others coming all by the end of the year, but those would require some form of digital cable service.

I would highly suggest the Samsung HLS DLP's I believe you can get a 50" 1080p set for a decent price and you could have it professionally calibrated and still be well under your $2000 tag.

I consider myself very picky as well and recently purchased the Samsung HLS 5687 and it has been an amazing set. I even think the SD channels look very nice. I did a lot of reading here and talked to some professional calibraters at Avical who highly recommended the Samsung. My wife was very very reluctant to purchase a new TV she didn't see why we needed a bigger TV or why we would need HD. Now she spends more time on it than I do and she told me last week that this was a better purchase than the Mac I bought her. I honestly have not seen a better looking TV than the Samsung and my calibration is scheduled for this March so its only going to get better.

What does calibration usually run? I hear you should get it done every 3-5 years.

How do the DLP TV's compare to say, the Westinghouse 42" LCD?

What does calibration usually run? I hear you should get it done every 3-5 years.$300 to $500, depending on the display.

Recalibration is unnecessary on digital fixed panel displays like LCD, DLP, and LCOS because there is no convergence to worry about. On more traditional CRT displays, the convergence slowly moves out of alignment.

When you buy your display, you should start with the recommended settings in the owners' thread and work from there. All displays are a little different, due to manufacturing tolerances, but you can find settings on this forum that represent a good starting point.

How do the DLP TV's compare to say, the Westinghouse 42" LCD?The video processing in the TV has a significant impact on the quality of the output you see on the screen. Displays from Westinghouse do not rate very well in that regard.

Under $2k, I like the Panasonic 50" 768p plasma, currently available at Circuit City for around $1800. Plasma might no be the best choice for gaming, however, especially if you tend to leave menus up on the screen.

I also like the Samsung 50" HL-S5087W or 56" HL-S5687W, but only if you can get a December build date. The 87W models built after November include the option to disable interpolated overscan (and enable persistent 1:1 pixel mapping), but earlier ones did not. Previously, you had to buy the more expensive 88W series to get that capability, which I feel is important for gaming. All the Samsungs accept 1080p from an Xbox360 over both component and RGB, a capability not offered by much of the competition.

If you do see rainbows on DLP -- as I do -- then you could wait until Samsung releases its 2007 LED DLPs in April, which eliminate the rainbow effect (RBE). More information on those new models can be found in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=779782&highlight=2007+Samsung).

It sounds like you are really into gaming, so I would encourage you to add the Xbox360 at the same time you upgrade your TV.

The LED DLPs are a little out of my price range based on that post you linked. I am not in any big hurry, so I could wait out the technology for a bit, but I'm also not all that interested in being on the cutting edge of technology. That's probably why CRT is appealing, it's proven, mature, and excellent for display.

I also like the Samsung 50" HL-S5087W or 56" HL-S5687W, but only if you can get a December build date. The 87W models built after November include the option to disable interpolated overscan (and enable persistent 1:1 pixel mapping), but earlier ones did not.

How would I ensure a December build date?

djender,

On this forum, you can only post MSRP. That said, Samsung displays typically sell for 20+% off MSRP, so the 2007 50" (and possibly 56") models would be in your price range. It's the second-generation of LED.

Going with a CRT eliminates the possibility of 1080p gaming. You also run the risk of burn-in, as with plasma, when keeping game menus up on the screen for sustained periods of time. Under normal / typical television viewing, burn-in is no longer an issue for either of those technologies, but you have indicated that a high percentage of your usage is gaming.


How would I ensure a December build date?Obviously you can't open the box and look on the back of the TV before you buy, but there may be a sticker on the outer box that indicates the build date. That's not something I have checked. Others would know more about that than I. Or you could opt for the x88 series and not worry about that.

Take a look at the HL-S x87 and x88 series on Amazon.com to get an idea on pricing. I would expect the 2007 HL-T models without LED backlighting to command a very small premium over those.

I really appreciate the information, bfdtv. I think I will wait a couple months to see where the LCD technology goes, as that looks like the most viable solution at the moment.

I wanted to add that while I do a significant amount of gaming, menus do not stay up for very long. I do not leave my consoles on, nor do I let my friends or wife do so. What is the length of time that we are talking with burn-in? I haven't seen anything with my current TV.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

I wanted to add that while I do a significant amount of gaming, menus do not stay up for very long. I do not leave my consoles on, nor do I let my friends or wife do so. What is the length of time that we are talking with burn-in? I haven't seen anything with my current TV.Rear projection CRTs are far more susceptible to burn-in than directview "tube" displays because of how hard the phosphors are driven. That said, burn-in is not a problem anymore with typical usage. You aren't going to cause burn-in on your TV by playing a game or browsing its menus. It's not a problem for gaming if you are careful.

Where you can cause burn-in --- and others on this forum have done it -- is if you fall asleep or pass out while the console menus are up, and there is no screensaver to kick-in automatically. Or if your two-year-old son walks up and turns on your TV + Xbox while you aren't around. If you can say with reasonable certainty that this will never happen -- not even once -- during the years you own the TV, then it's not something to worry about.

I don't own an Xbox360, but it may even have a built-in screensaver to render this a non-issue.

Look at the 50 or 55" Sony SXRD A2000 both can be found for less than 2k. I am biased but I still think it is one of the best pictures in 1080p sets. My 55" was $1900 from an online retailer.

Honestly, I would look at the 720p displays (heresy around these parts, but, y'know). Maybe the Sony XBR1 display might be right for you (if you can find any left over). It was the bee's knees last year and reputedly did a great job displaying Standard Def. Because you're not getting any HD signals. And it sounds like a while before you plan on getting any. It has a known "Green Blob" issue but that would be covered by any EW you would most likely get, anyhow.

But try looking at that or some other 720p models. They may be right for you.

I don't have a lot of need for 1080p. I believe it to be a gimmick and from what I have read here, it sounds like a lot of people agree.

I don't believe that burn-in will be a problem for my household. There are no kids and I can say with reasonable certainty that I will not have any menus or still images displayed for long periods of time.

Look at the 50 or 55" Sony SXRD A2000 both can be found for less than 2k. I am biased but I still think it is one of the best pictures in 1080p sets. My 55" was $1900 from an online retailer.
Those look really nice, does anyone else have any experience with them?

As far as the 720p sets go, will I regret not buying a 1080 set in a year or will it not bother me for many years? I am not really prone to the upgrade bug, but our setup needs a bigger TV and I would like to get something that will last a long time.

Can anyone suggest a CRT-RP to look at?

As I said, whether or not you're going to be bothered by not having 1080p depends upon how long you expect to keep the set and at what point you think you're going to be receiving 1080p source material.

If you're planning on buying a BluRay or HD-DVD player in the next 2-3 years AND you expect to keep this TV for more than 5 years, then making the upgrade to 1080p makes sense. If you think you're going to be getting a new set in 2012 or earlier or you don't really expect to be getting something that generates 1080p output then getting 1080p just for the sake of getting it because it's out there doesn't make much sense. Granted, at this point the price differential isn't that great. But they may not do as good of a job upconverting Standard Def source material as the older 720p models do (on my Sammy SD is ok but it's noticably worse than the CRT set that it replaced).

Also, even the High Def broadcasts being put out there right now are not in 1080p. They're in 720p. At what point that will change... dunno. But, right now, getting High Def broadcasts does not mean getting 1080p broadcasts.

I will expect this set to last at least 5 years and probably much longer. Otherwise, I cannot justify spending a couple thousand dollars.

I really appreciate the input thus far, it's been incredibly helpful.

1080p is most certainly not a gimmick. It provides the best picture for deinterlaced 1080i channel, and there is plenty of 1080p24 content broadcast on the CBS, NBC, TNT, and HBO. One such program is Law & Order. The 1080p format is also used by both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, as well as all next-generation gaming systems (although only the PS3 has native 1080p content, most Xbox360 content is 720p, upconverted to 1080p).

If you plan to upgrade in a few years, then I can understand skimping now on a 720p display to save more for a big-screen, wall-mounted 1080p model in a few years, but buying a 720p display at this point to keep for 5+ years just makes zero sense to me.

Can anyone suggest a CRT-RP to look at?I believe Hitachi is among the last still selling CRT RPTVs at retail. Most manufacturers have discontinued CRT, because with CRT technology, it is too expensive to support 720p and 1080p. These days, it is not easy for manufacturers to market displays that can't natively support 720p and 1080p.

The days of CRT displays with 9" guns capable of resolving near full HD resolution are long gone. Today's CRT RPTVs are limited to native 480p or 1080i display -- they convert all formats to those resolutions for display -- but with 7" CRTs they are only able to resolve 1200-1400 pixels of the 1920x1080 signal. Obviously, one area where CRT does greatly excel is black level. Digital fixed panel technology (LCD, LCOS, DLP, plasma, etc) has yet to match the contrast and black levels available on CRTs.

1080p is most certainly not a gimmick. It provides the best picture for deinterlaced 1080i channel, and there is plenty of 1080p24 content broadcast on the CBS, NBC, TNT, and HBO. One such program is Law & Order. The 1080p format is also used by both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, as well as all next-generation gaming systems (although only the PS3 has native 1080p content, most Xbox360 content is 720p, upconverted to 1080p).
Are you sure on that?

I think that currently there are no programs broadcast in 1080p. 1080i, yes. 1080p, no.

If you want to see what resolution your favorite shows are being broadcast in, you can check out here: http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/hdtv_programming.htm

But I did not say that 1080p was a gimmick. I said that if he was going to replace in a few years, it wasn't worth his viewing habits (since it's possible he would never come across a native 1080p signal if he didn't plan on getting HD-TV or bluray).

Correct on PS3/Xbox360 although I think to date all the games have been 720p on the 360... read something that the first 1080p game will be released soon.

Are you sure on that?Yes.

I think that currently there are no programs broadcast in 1080p. 1080i, yes. 1080p, no.This discussion comes up every few days. We last discussed it in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=802210

But yes, programs like CSI on CBS are 1080p24 in a 1080i60 transmission. It's a 1080p source and all the 1080p information is there, and any display that can detect and lock onto the 3/2 cadence can reconstruct every 1080p frame. It works the same way for a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player set to 1080i output.

Virtually all movies and episodic programming (CSI, Heroes, etc) shown on CBS and NBC is 1080p24. As are movies shown on HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc.

I went looking at TVs today and here are some observations I made:

* I can see the "rainbow effect" on all the DLP TVs I looked at today, so a DLP with the current technology is out.

* My favorite of all the TV's I looked at was the Sony A2000 Rear proj LCD. The HD quality was crystal clear, but I was unable to see any SD material. Can anyone comment on it's quality? I think I will go scour the A2000 owners thread.

That being said, should I wait and see what I think of the new Samsung LED DLPs or would you guys recommend getting a Sony KMD**A2000?

What about the JVC with the HD-ILA LCOS chip in it? That was the other TV that looked really nice.

Sony KDS-60A2000. Buy it and don't look back. Available for ~$2k. It's a superior model to the JVC you mentioned.

I'd also buy an Oppo DVD player.

How will one of the KDS-##A2000 compare to the Samsung LED models that are going to be sold in April/May? Maybe that is a silly question to ask, but it seems many people are awaiting their release.

How will one of the KDS-##A2000 compare to the Samsung LED models that are going to be sold in April/May? Maybe that is a silly question to ask, but it seems many people are awaiting their release.Impossible to know until they are available.

Were they not part of this years "show off your best stuff" show? I'm sure that is a horribly inaccurate representation of vendors products, but I'm sure it has at least a little insight into new products.

I have read many of the more popular threads and ended on the "CRTs Aren't Dead" (I would link it but the forum won't let me until I have 5 posts) thread. Mr. Bob made some very convincing arguments to buying a RP-CRT and I do believe that DLP and LCD technologies look artificial and bright.I have a RP-CRT set that I bought 2.5 years ago. While I believe I made the best choice at the time given the available options, I don't believe they are the right choice anymore for nearly anyone. Part of the problem is the very few remaining RP-CRT sets are very low end with cheap optics, low quality scalars and processing, and just about every short cut to take cost out used. The best RP-CRT sets from a few years ago are probably still very competitive in many regards with the best other technologies have to offer. The problem is they aren't selling those "best" RP-CRT sets anymore. What they are selling now have very little in common with 'em.

Anyone still pushing RP-CRT in todays TV market has their head in the sand. Personally, from the sets on the market now I like the 2007 Samsung LED DLPs and the Sony SXRD sets. If you're going 1080p, you'll want to sit about 1.56x the diagonal of the set to fully resolve what's on the screen. For 720p it's 2.34x the diagonal. (Assuming you have 20/20 vision)

That being said, should I wait and see what I think of the new Samsung LED DLPs or would you guys recommend getting a Sony KMD**A2000?If you're not in a hurry to buy now, it couldn't hurt to wait. The few I saw at CES looked quite good (no rainbows, and I'm very rainbow sensitive). If you "need" to buy now, the Sony A2000 SXRD is a great choice.

For those interested, I picked up a Sony KP-51WS520 off of craigslist with little usage for a great deal. I will use the money I saved to upgrade my HT system and get a professional calibration. Thanks for all the input.