How can we get HD radio to improve over fringe areas? I'm in a pretty fringe area with only a few local channels, but I have a outdoor antenna, what if someone cant or do not want to put up a antenna outside? Is there a good indoor antenna out there? I can pull in the HD signals pretty decent with my antenna, but they do drop out. Any thoughts?

I'd try fooling around with the location and orientation of the antenna first.

As far as good indoor antennas go, rabbit ears or FM-Ts are generally the way to go (and usually less than $5). Mike Walker has been raving about this little un-amplified antenna from Magnum Dynalab. Adding a good pre-amp (with the FM trap off), like a Channel Master 7777 has been known to enhance reception a bit.

If the TV antenna doesn't have a pre-amp on it, go on and hook it up and see what happens. If you've got a pre-amp (or a disro. amp with FM trap), take a quick trip up to the roof and turn the FM trap off.

If you all the sudden start seeing hash on VHF channels, then you'll probably want to turn the FM trap back on and mount a dedicated FM antenna, (like an Antenna Performance Specialties APS9B, APS-13 [if your feeling extreme] or a Winegard HD-6065P)

BTW,
How far are you from your TV and HD-Radio stations. How big is you TV antenna, and does it have a rotator?

Here is the antenna Mike Walker liked, the Magnum Dynalab SR-100 Silver Ribbon indoor antenna. http://www.magnumdynalab.com/fmantenna-sr100.htm

Well for me I'm using the Radioshack's 12 elemet fm antenna about 20' up in the air, I have few drop outs, but it still drops out. would a amp help or hurt my signal? I thought about adding a amp to it to see what happens.

I have experimented with a Magnum dynalab 205 "FM Signal Sleuth" RF amplifier, and it does improve HD lock on my one DX station (KZEL 96.1 about 110 miles away).
My Sangean HDT-1 has a readout of "carrier to noise ratio" (when locked onto a HD signal). Right now on KZEL I see 67dB with the amp on and 62dB with it off. If the station is going in and out of HD, turning on the amp will usually lock it in. Note... 70dB is the best that I have seen on local (Portland) stations. I am using an APS-9B antenna, about 20 ft AGL.

http://www.magnumdynalab.com/x_sleuth.htm

Best sensitivity specs that I have seen on a HD tuner:

http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=M-4

I would REALLY like to try one of these. :)

TO JRAS20
I'm using the 127" outdoor Weingard FM antenna with a rotar and I'm having HD dropouts which I attribute to the new HD technology, the broadcaster, and atmospheric disturbances, as well as the first generation HD tuner. Since I don't have measuring instruments , I don't know if its one or some or all of the mentioned. I do know that I have no dropouts with analog stereo broadcasts.
I feel an outdoor Fm antenna will always beat an indoor FM antenna.
Richard

jras20,
You should make sure that the antenna is pointed DIRECTLY at the stations. If it isn't, your antenna isn't living up to it's full potential.

You could try a pre-amp or a signal sleuth. If all that fails, you might want to consider a 127" Winegard HD 6065P or the 200" monster, the APS-13. People have noticed considerable reception improvements moving from the Radio Shack antenna to the aforementioned models. (The APS-9B is also better than the RS, but not my an extreme margin)

As for me, I don't have HD Radio, and am surviving on a Kenwood 42B FM tuner, and a pair of rabbit ears in my basement. I reverse-engineered and built my own APS-13 like antenna that is going to be installed on a (65ft) hill above our house this spring. From my limited testing of this thing, I can see why people pay mucho grande for big antennas. I was able to receive near static free signal from FM stations 75 miles away, that are blocked by a 50ft hill. These same stations were barely audible with rabbit ears.
[This is the antenna, it has been improved significantly since this photo was taken:]
http://radioguy.googlepages.com/fm.JPG
For further information on FM antennas, check out:
http://www.antennaperformance.com/
http://www.winegard.com/offair/fm.htm
Brian Beezley's antenna comparisons (thanks, Brian!)http://users.tns.net/~bb/

Your antenna looks great-how do you feel it will compare to Weingards 127" antenna($85) and the 200" one? Originally I was going to try and build my own FM antenna but when I looked into it I knew it was beyond me and it would never come out right.
Richard

jras20,
You should make sure that the antenna is pointed DIRECTLY at the stations. If it isn't, your antenna isn't living up to it's full potential.

You could try a pre-amp or a signal sleuth. If all that fails, you might want to consider a 127" Winegard HD 6065P or the 200" monster, the APS-13. People have noticed considerable reception improvements moving from the Radio Shack antenna to the aforementioned models. (The APS-9B is also better than the RS, but not my an extreme margin)

As for me, I don't have HD Radio, and am surviving on a Kenwood 42B FM tuner, and a pair of rabbit ears in my basement. I reverse-engineered and built my own APS-13 like antenna that is going to be installed on a (65ft) hill above our house this spring. From my limited testing of this thing, I can see why people pay mucho grande for big antennas. I was able to receive near static free signal from FM stations 75 miles away, that are blocked by a 50ft hill. These same stations were barely audible with rabbit ears.
[This is the antenna, it has been improved significantly since this photo was taken:]
http://users.tns.net/~bb/[/url]

Thats a heck of a antenna! I'm pretty sure my antenna is pointed close enough to the stations tower, I have a digital compass that I use to aim it. It does pretty decent most of the time, I may check out that FM antenna.

Uhh... this is a 200" antenna. It probably doesn't work as good as an APS-13, but it works great compared to rabbit ears or my 140" Winegard VHF antenna. I found out the thing also has higher gain on channels 5 & 6 than the VHF antenna.

I've got some tweaking to do to the the directors (some are slightly bigger than the smallest active element).

I also need to sturdy up the element mounts a bit (using bolts in addition to rivets). Other than that, It's ready for prime time.

I built the whole thing out of part from an old Radio Shack UV-190 (160") and a Winegard HD-8200P and a frick' load of rivets.

I also built an oversized 160" UHF corner reflector antenna out of another Radio Shack UV-160 my neighbor gave me. It's got 40 some 6" wide directors, uses the UHF feed section of the HD-8200P, the corner reflector is about 3' tall. (I don't have any pics of this one yet)

In the spring, I am going to post full plans for these on Instructibles (http://www.instructables.com/) in my TV and FM Antennas group: http://www.instructables.com/group/tvantennas/

While I'm plugging Instructibles, I'd like to point out that there are tons of super cool projects for all kinds of things here. People post everything from Photoshop and programming tutorials to iPod mods, DIY bike and K'Nex machine guns. Infact if you have tutorials of your own on the internet somewhere, I highly reccomend you post them here (you can get lots more exposure and feedback).

jras20,
It really is one HECK of an antenna! Many DXers have them mounted on high towers and connected to vintage 70's tuners and have successfully pulled in stations over 200 miles away (in normal conditions).

BTW,
What city are you aiming for, and how far are you from it? You might want to consider installing a CM 7777 pre-amp (with the FM trap off) before installing a new antenna.

Are you in an area with hills or mountains (or high buildings)? If so, you could be dealing with multipath.

Either way, the APS-13 would be a viable solution, as it has high gain (10dbd), and an extremely high (35 db) front-to-back ratio which makes it more resistant to multipath.

I sure miss my ten-foot long Radio Shack FM yagi, and rotor, that I had when I was in the Navy, down in Southern Maryland.

Between DC, Maryland, Virginia, and Delaware stations, I think I had something on every channel.

Ken, do you have anything to do with KSL-AM? I often tune it in to check propagation. It's consistently strong and clear here near San Diego. I've been trying to receive it in HD on my HDT-1 around dawn. So far, I've been unable to lock.

Brian

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9670909&&#post9670909

You know what, I might of fixed my problem :) I had a longer cord hooked on to where I had my other line running in, I noticed I had a lot of drop outs even on my analog radio, I had a shorter cord and I hooked it up to the main line, and now it seems to be working a lot better now with very few HD drop outs. I'll be testing today, hopefully that cleared it up.

Ken, do you have anything to do with KSL-AM? I often tune it in to check propagation. It's consistently strong and clear here near San Diego. I've been trying to receive it in HD on my HDT-1 around dawn. So far, I've been unable to lock.

Brian

Hi Brian, I discovered your website recently - fantastic stuff. I am adding an APS-13 soon because of your site. Is the 200" Quadix available commercially?

Ken, do you have anything to do with KSL-AM? I often tune it in to check propagation. It's consistently strong and clear here near San Diego. I've been trying to receive it in HD on my HDT-1 around dawn. So far, I've been unable to lock.

Brian

I wander upstairs and visit sometimes. Not a lot more. I can get answers to any questions you have.

Where is San Marcos? I know that KSL-AM came in well at Grass Valley, when I was there for a school years ago.