Tigers are on 10.2 today, but NBC is doing nothing to promote during their Wimbledon coverage.

They should run a crawl that it is available and live on 10.2 digital ota, 249 from comcast digital, 454 Millennium digital, etc

PQ isn't the best, i'm not sure how much bandwidth WILX gives to 10.2, but its grainy.

Yep, another missed promotional opportunity. It should have been advertised through the week. Then again, with the relative audiences of Tigers vs. tennis, WILX probably should have put Wimbledon on 10.2 and the Tigers on 10.1. Neither was in HD so that would not have been a consideration. I'm sure NBC would have been miffed, but I bet the ratings would have justified it. Get the sports fans notified, educated and hooked and that's a good start for OTA digitals.

Yep, another missed promotional opportunity. It should have been advertised through the week. Then again, with the relative audiences of Tigers vs. tennis, WILX probably should have put Wimbledon on 10.2 and the Tigers on 10.1. Neither was in HD so that would not have been a consideration. I'm sure NBC would have been miffed, but I bet the ratings would have justified it. Get the sports fans notified, educated and hooked and that's a good start for OTA digitals.

Wimbledon was atleast 16x9 SD and decent image, saw much more of the court than the center cut 4x3. I think as an NBC affiliate, they have to show certain events on the Primary channel (Stanley Cup Finals, US Open, Wimbledon, Triple Crown, etc).

But yeah, they missed a great opportunity to make the channel known and educate the public.

I added the transmitter strength to the first post for the OTA folks. www.tvfool.com is a great site if you are having any issues picking up your digital channels. I always wondered why I couldn't get MyNetworkTV's digital signal with my lil UHF antenna. I get stuff all the way from GR, so i thought something was up on their end. Now i see that they only transmit 1.38 kW, I would prolly need a roof top antenna to pick that up. Maybe if I didn't have so many houses and trees to the south and my house faced that way rather than west might make a difference too.

Not that they are HD or have anything worth watching, just speculating.

I get the SD signal fine on Comcast

For those that don't read the programming thread, E* is adding FSN Detroit HD tomorrow for game time only (same as all other providers) on a ConUS beam and a few national HDs on August 15th and September 1st.

Linky (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=873023)

The tvfool.com web site has the local MyNetwork TV station (WHTV-DT) as running 3.5Kw from WLNS's tower, but I think they are still running under their "Special Temporary Authority" from downtown Jackson at that power level, with a antenna height of 53 meters. It looks like they have applied for a "Modification of Construction Permit" to move to WLNS's tower and run 13.6Kw, at 263 meters. If they make that move they should cover greater Lansing well. The above power levels and antenna heights are from the FCC's web site.

My digital receiver has only been able to find WHTV-DT once from my house near Potterville when I have done channel scans.

By golly that 4kw for WHTV is showing up in the FCC database as an STA. I had though for sure that it was their licensed power. At any rate, in May the FCC did issue a construction permit to move to Okemos. The predicted coverage area is substantially larger than they have now, as one would expect from the power increase and more importantly the height increase.

As I understand it, the programming on WHTV-DT is strictly a simulcast of their analog channel 18. Last I had heard... which was some time ago ... the DT signal is actually a rebroadcast from an off-air pickup. Maybe that has changed.

I emailed them a long time ago asking about HD plans and got no reply. They don't do anything in HD

Thanks Gary & jefbal99 for the updates on WHTV-DT. Let's hope they go HD, then we would only be missing the CW in HD.

Mark

Thanks Gary & jefbal99 for the updates on WHTV-DT. Let's hope they go HD, then we would only be missing the CW in HD.

Mark

That will never happen as they are on a sub as it is right now and WWMT over in k'zoo have the same setup for the GR market.

The franchise would need to get bought out by somebody that will get its own transmitter and spend $$$$

That will never happen as they are on a sub as it is right now and WWMT over in k'zoo have the same setup for the GR market.

The franchise would need to get bought out by somebody that will get its own transmitter and spend $$$$

Sort of. WWMT is a secondary CW affiliate. WLAJ is a CW PLUS affiliate. There are differences. The CW has holes in the national schedule for local programs. The CW plus fills 24/7 with national content. Some of the CW programming is available in HD, but the CW PLUS is not (yet) (that I know of) distributed in HD.

WWMT as a CBS affiliate is burdened with 1080i network programming which would make a second HD service difficult. WLAJ as an ABC affiliate has 720p network material which compresses much more efficiently and theoretically there could be two HD services co-existing in the same channel.

Remember the CW PLUS service started out as The WB 100 PLUS and was intended for cable television distribution in markets #100 and smaller. When WB and UPN merged, some stations took advantage of this and moved the CW from cable only to Digital Television channels.

Channels are channels, I'm not really sure it is fair to call them "sub" channels. I think of a sub-channel as, for example, the Radio Talking Book service on the Subsidiary Carrier Authorized channel on WKAR-FM. 53.1 or 53.2 are just channels with major and minor channel numbers. Neither is a sub of the other.
But maybe that is just me.

WKAR has acquired a new PSIP (Electronic Program Guide) generator. As a result we've made some changes to the way we are sending out program data, and I wonder how it is working for you.

At the moment, my Transport Stream Reader indicates that WKAR, WILX, and WSYM are all transmitting EIT (titles, start times, end times) as well as ETT (Extended Text Tables.... program descriptions)

WKAR is sending 21 to 24 hours of guide information. We are using fixed rates between the data bursts. In this case every 12,500 mS we refresh the data. WILX and WSYM are using linearly increasing data bursts .... the closer in time to the event, the more frequently the data is sent. For the current three-hour time block WILX is sending it every 200 mS, and WSYM is sending it 500mS. Future information intervals increase to as much as 60,000 mS. 60,000 is the ATSC maximum.

It seems that some receivers time out well before the 60,000 mS. For those receivers to get the information the cycle time has to be much shorter.

But the more frequently you send the data, the more services for which you send data, and the further into the future you provide data, the more bits it takes.... which are less bits that can be assigned to, say, video. (I may as well mention it here, we will be adding two more standard-definition services before fall...and if all works well, we'll be 24/7 with DTV)

My questions are:

Are you receiving WKAR's PSIP? WILX? WSYM?
Is 21-24 hours sufficient?
If not how many days ahead should we populate?
<Actually do any receivers go more than 24 hours ahead, anyway?>

WKAR has acquired a new PSIP (Electronic Program Guide) generator. As a result we've made some changes to the way we are sending out program data, and I wonder how it is working for you.

At the moment, my Transport Stream Reader indicates that WKAR, WILX, and WSYM are all transmitting EIT (titles, start times, end times) as well as ETT (Extended Text Tables.... program descriptions)

WKAR is sending 21 to 24 hours of guide information. We are using fixed rates between the data bursts. In this case every 12,500 mS we refresh the data. WILX and WSYM are using linearly increasing data bursts .... the closer in time to the event, the more frequently the data is sent. For the current three-hour time block WILX is sending it every 200 mS, and WSYM is sending it 500mS. Future information intervals increase to as much as 60,000 mS. 60,000 is the ATSC maximum.

It seems that some receivers time out well before the 60,000 mS. For those receivers to get the information the cycle time has to be much shorter.

But the more frequently you send the data, the more services for which you send data, and the further into the future you provide data, the more bits it takes.... which are less bits that can be assigned to, say, video. (I may as well mention it here, we will be adding two more standard-definition services before fall...and if all works well, we'll be 24/7 with DTV)

My questions are:

Are you receiving WKAR's PSIP? WILX? WSYM?
Is 21-24 hours sufficient?
If not how many days ahead should we populate?
<Actually do any receivers go more than 24 hours ahead, anyway?>

My H20 does a week at a time. I don't really see any advantage to increasing the PSIP too much, especially if it drags off video.

What will the two new SD channels carry, or is that still a secret?

Gary,

I checked out my "guide" info tonight on the two receivers I use the most and your information looks fine. WILX-DT and WSYM-DT also seem fine. My receiver I picked up at Wal-Mart a long time ago will go at least two days ahead, but it seems that only the I-on stations and WXMI (G.R. FOX) put much information out for the next day. It seems WLAJ is only reporting "DTV Program" on 53.1 and "CW Plus" on 53.2.

My other tuner is a old Samsung SIR-T165, that I use in the basement, and also record to D-VHS and now my PC with it's firewire port. The SIR-T165 is very slow at reading the directory information, and I don't normally use if for that, but WKAR, WILX, and WSYM's directories all looks fine on it also. The Samsung can also go at least 24 hours ahead, but it has to stop and reread the station data again to display it.

I would think 20 hours or so worths of data would be good, even less if it is going to make that big of difference in the video signal. I am sorry to hear that WKAR is planning on adding two more sub channels, sure seems like it will degrade both 23.1 and 23.2. Some of the stuff I have recorded from 23.1 are just great looking, and the few HD-DVD's I have been able to make on regular blank DVDs look great also! I do understand that many people like the other channels, as I am guessing that WKAR will be using some of the same programs that WCMU is using. Is WKAR going to turn off 23.3 and 23.4 during prime time or try running them all the time?

Gary I also have a very old (first generation) Samsung SIR-T100, and also a newer receiver that I can't remember the brand that I could test if you want me to. My daughter also has a Samsung SIR-TS160 that I could test if you want me to.

Thanks again for all the information, and thanks for your work at WKAR-DT.

Mark

What will the two new SD channels carry, or is that still a secret?

At least initially they will look a lot like the KAR-2 and KAR-3 services we provide to the Lansing/East Lansing area via Comcast. KAR-2 is a mixture of kids programs, repeats of PBS programs, local/Michigan programs. and Annenberg/CPB educational programs overnight. KAR-3 is the "Create" service, how-to programs.

KAR-2 and KAR-3 are in the "Public-Educational-Governmental" (PEG) allocated channels on Comcast.

Current schedules are available at: http://wkar.org/tv/schedule.php

PBS and other providers are offering two additional services to stations, V-me which is Spanish language, and World which is public affairs/documentaries. We haven't made commitments to either at this time.

We also provide a KAR-4 service to East Lansing/Meridian Township on Comcast channel 29. That particular channel is in existence because of a contract between MSU Housing and Comcast that expires in 2008. We have Annenberg/CPB on that channel 24/7. (KAR-4 is contract based, not a PEG channel)

We may put the KAR-2 and KAR-3 on the DTV feed as soon as we overcome some technical issues (the new automation system does not like to control the HD switcher ... or video tape machines) .... and ... one of our SD encoders went back to the manufacturer for repairs (3 seconds of lip-sync error seemed a bit much to me)

We'll have an official launch of the multicast this fall, and we'll be doing some re-branding It does not make much since to have a KAR-2 on channel 23.3 or KAR-3 on 23.4.

Gary,
I am sorry to hear that WKAR is planning on adding two more sub channels, sure seems like it will degrade both 23.1 and 23.2. Some of the stuff I have recorded from 23.1 are just great looking, and the few HD-DVD's I have been able to make on regular blank DVDs look great also! I do understand that many people like the other channels, as I am guessing that WKAR will be using some of the same programs that WCMU is using. Is WKAR going to turn off 23.3 and 23.4 during prime time or try running them all the time?

Mark

As you may have noticed from my earlier post, unlike most commercial stations, public television stations enjoy (employ?) different program rights permissions. We have so much content that we just can't air it all. The CREATE channel we have on Comcast is very popular.

We want to be able to offer a variety of program choices to our viewers (members). If you don't want to watch Barney.... then you can watch This Old House .... or Nova.... or the poor Bismark being sunk by the Hood.

PBS has said that they would be merging the HD channel and the National Program Service into one stream. (Right now they are pretty much independent, with relatively few simultaneous events) This could happen as early as Fall, 2008. (Well, that's the programmer's desires.... but at the moment PBS does not have transponder capacity to accomodate multiple HD channels with the time zone delays.... so either (a) the merger happens later, (b) PBS purchases time zone delay servers for effected stations (Central, Mountain, Pacific, Hawaii/Alaska), or (c) they get the "Next Generation Interconnect" system fully implemented which will allow stations to receive and record 80% of program content two days before broadcast as "files" rather than streamed programs.

I started this latest thread with an inquiry about our new PSIP. In addition to new PSIP generators, we have acquired two new standard-definition encoders, one new multiplexer, and two new multiplex/encoder controllers. We started with two HD/SD encoders and one SD encoder. One of the two HD/SD encoders is a back-up to all of the other encoders.

The existing encoder was upgraded to current specifications (which is actually the one that failed due to lip sync errors).

All the encoders now have "multi-pass" internal encoding to improve their compression efficiency. In addition, we use "statistical multiplexing" so that we can assign priorities to different services (HD more important) such that the multiplexer can change the allocations of bits between services on a frame-by-frame basis.

Between the multi-pass and the statistical multiplexing, assigning different minimum-maximum bit rates to the different services (e.g. Cartoons don't need a lot of bits), along with the 1080i to 720p conversion of the network signal we feel pretty confident that this will work with out killing the quality of the HD service. (I can't say it won't impact it, it will.)

We do not expect to turn off services during different day parts, but we might change the priorities/allocations of the bandwidth assigned to the different services.

Thanks for the update Gary. I hope it all works out like you folks think it will. I'll keep watching, and sending in a donation from time to time.

Gary,

Thanks for the update. I suspect this is a net loss for my family, but good luck with the rollout.

Am I correct in assuming that Comcast is simply retransmitting the OTA signal of WKAR-HD? (Will the Comcast retransmission be losing bits?)

Thanks.

(BTW - Bismarck had way, way more survivors than HMS Hood and outlived her by three days...)

Gary,

Thanks for the update. I suspect this is a net loss for my family, but good luck with the rollout.

Am I correct in assuming that Comcast is simply retransmitting the OTA signal of WKAR-HD? (Will the Comcast retransmission be losing bits?)

Thanks.

(BTW - Bismarck had way, way more survivors than HMS Hood and outlived her by three days...)

oops. maybe I should watch it.

Comcast like all cable systems is picking us up via off-air. We'll look at providing a separate feed for them, but we're not there yet.

Gary,

Thanks for the update. I suspect this is a net loss for my family, but good luck with the rollout.

Am I correct in assuming that Comcast is simply retransmitting the OTA signal of WKAR-HD? (Will the Comcast retransmission be losing bits?)

Thanks.

(BTW - Bismarck had way, way more survivors than HMS Hood and outlived her by three days...)

I bet the Bismarck went to the bottom just as quickly once the waves washed over it, though. Let's see that reverse-angle replay!

[QUOTE=garybliev]At least initially they will look a lot like the KAR-2 and KAR-3 services we provide to the Lansing/East Lansing area via Comcast. KAR-2 is a mixture of kids programs, repeats of PBS programs, local/Michigan programs. and Annenberg/CPB educational programs overnight. KAR-3 is the "Create" service, how-to programs.

KAR-2 and KAR-3 are in the "Public-Educational-Governmental" (PEG) allocated channels on Comcast.

Current schedules are available at: http://wkar.org/tv/schedule.php

PBS and other providers are offering two additional services to stations, V-me which is Spanish language, and World which is public affairs/documentaries. We haven't made commitments to either at this time.

We also provide a KAR-4 service to East Lansing/Meridian Township on Comcast channel 29. That particular channel is in existence because of a contract between MSU Housing and Comcast that expires in 2008. We have Annenberg/CPB on that channel 24/7. (KAR-4 is contract based, not a PEG channel)

We may put the KAR-2 and KAR-3 on the DTV feed as soon as we overcome some technical issues (the new automation system does not like to control the HD switcher ... or video tape machines) .... and ... one of our SD encoders went back to the manufacturer for repairs (3 seconds of lip-sync error seemed a bit much to me)

We'll have an official launch of the multicast this fall, and we'll be doing some re-branding It does not make much since to have a KAR-2 on channel 23.3 or KAR-3 on 23.4.[/QUOTe

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It is perfectly OK to have a variety of programming on a tv station....AS LONG IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE ONE HD PROGRAM YOU ARE SENDING OUT TO THE PUBLIC. Providers such as Directv will be showing over 100 channels of HD programming in the near future and more people will be purchasing HD displays. These people deserve to see the very best HD their sets are capable of. As of now, many providers have cut back on this very best quality. This is not right and should be corrected in the future.

I just saw the EL Cable commission minutes for the May meeting, and there's an entry indicating that Comcast will be replacing the 550MHz EL & Meridian plant with 860MHz infrastructure. A service interruption is noted.

Anyone have an idea when the project is to take place? Is this a neighborhood-by-neighborhood matter? Any idea how long such a planned service outage should last?

It is perfectly OK to have a variety of programming on a tv station....AS LONG IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE ONE HD PROGRAM YOU ARE SENDING OUT TO THE PUBLIC. Providers such as Directv will be showing over 100 channels of HD programming in the near future and more people will be purchasing HD displays. These people deserve to see the very best HD their sets are capable of. As of now, many providers have cut back on this very best quality. This is not right and should be corrected in the future.

As an HD viewer myself I understand your concerns. As a broadcaster, especially as a broadcaster with a public service mission I'm more conflicted.

We have to consider all of our viewers, not just those with HD sets, although certainly we do have to consider those viewers as well, and yes, you are right... as the price for HD sets gets less, there will be more viewers with HD sets.

You mention the "100s of channels in HD on DirecTV" unfortunately neither DirecTV nor Echostar/Dish network carry -any- local-into-local HD signals in the Lansing market at this time. Further, I've been told that neither DirecTV nor Dish carry -any- public television station in any of the markets for which they provide HD signals from over-the-air stations.

19% of the audience in our DMA receives the WKAR-TV analog signal exclusively over-the-air. Digital television sets have become very inexpensive ($99 can buy a standard-definition 14" set now) The federal "$40 coupon" program for set-top boxes launches next year. I'm thinking (hoping) that we'll still have lots of over-the-air viewers on our digital services after 2/18/09.

We are still planning to continue to offer the HD service. For the next year I expect that it will continue as the PBS|HD channel, which is largely upconverted widescreen and where most of the schedule is repeats.

Just as an aside, the February 2007 Nielsen DMA Household Universe Estimates show in these percentages in the Lansing market (#112)

19.1 broadcast only
80.9 Cable + ADS
56.9 Wired Cable
24.1 Satellite/DBS

Total households is 256,190

Pulling a section from Gary's postJust as an aside, the February 2007 Nielsen DMA Household Universe Estimates show in these percentages in the Lansing market (#112)

19.1 broadcast only
80.9 Cable + ADS
56.9 Wired Cable
24.1 Satellite/DBSJust to pick up on that, it seems that half of WKAR's audience is getting their PBS-HD feed from wired MSOs. This is why I inquired about whether 'KAR might be able to provide a higher bitrate PBS-HD feed to providers like Comcast.

(I have no idea what it would cost to provide such a feed. Gary, out of curiosity, how would a cable provider get your signal if not OTA? Fiber? Microwave? Carrier pigeon?)

I suspect, as Gary does, that there will be more viewers getting a digital OTA feed of WKAR as NTSC is cut off, subsidised converters appear and digital sets continue to drop in price.

Having said that, I suspect that for several years equipment costs alone will continue to mean that the pool of 23.1 viewers is disproportionately paying Comcast, Dish or DirecTV while the 23.2 viewers are disproportionately getting a free OTA feed.

Pulling a section from Gary's postJust to pick up on that, it seems that half of WKAR's audience is getting their PBS-HD feed from wired MSOs. This is why I inquired about whether 'KAR might be able to provide a higher bitrate PBS-HD feed to providers like Comcast.

(I have no idea what it would cost to provide such a feed. Gary, out of curiosity, how would a cable provider get your signal if not OTA? Fiber? Microwave? Carrier pigeon?)

I suspect, as Gary does, that there will be more viewers getting a digital OTA feed of WKAR as NTSC is cut off, subsidised converters appear and digital sets continue to drop in price.

Having said that, I suspect that for several years equipment costs alone will continue to mean that the pool of 23.1 viewers is disproportionately paying Comcast, Dish or DirecTV while the 23.2 viewers are disproportionately getting a free OTA feed.


We have existing fiber between us and Comcast East Lansing/Lansing, and there is some interconnections between Comcast EL/L and other Comast systems.

For a relatively small amount, I guess 5,000 we could convert the output of our multiplexer to QAM to be sent to Comcast via the fiber. But it would be an exact copy of what we are transmitting, with the statistical multiplexing.

If we were to provide Comcast with a fixed bit rate HD and fixed bit rate SD signals, we could need to have additional HD and SD encoders. About 40K for an HD encoder and 20K for each SD encoder. 5K for a multiplexer and 10K for the QAM converters. Call it 100K total.... 50K to do just the HD if we continued to use our existing analog-digital hybrid interconnect for KAR-2, KAR-3, and KAR-4.

Even then, Comcast might not be willing to provide us the spectrum we would need to have multiple digital services. On the local Comcast signal, WKAR occupies 1/2 of a 6mhz (38 mb) QAM channel. Within that 1/2 of a channel, we can have one HD (which is all Comcast has turned on) or the HD + SD + SD + SD. We would need a full QAM channel to have half dedicated to HD and the other half to the 3 SD services.

As to "half of audience via MSOs" I don't know. We have only received notification from Comcast (for some systems), Millennium, and the Coldwater municipal system that they are carrying us. Because we are a public station, we are not offered an opportunity to negotiate for carriage, basically we radiate bits and if a cable system wishes to carry us, they can. It's not even required that they tell us.

We have existing fiber between us and Comcast East Lansing/Lansing, and there is some interconnections between Comcast EL/L and other Comast systems.

For a relatively small amount, I guess 5,000 we could convert the output of our multiplexer to QAM to be sent to Comcast via the fiber. But it would be an exact copy of what we are transmitting, with the statistical multiplexing.

If we were to provide Comcast with a fixed bit rate HD and fixed bit rate SD signals, we could need to have additional HD and SD encoders. About 40K for an HD encoder and 20K for each SD encoder. 5K for a multiplexer and 10K for the QAM converters. Call it 100K total.... 50K to do just the HD if we continued to use our existing analog-digital hybrid interconnect for KAR-2, KAR-3, and KAR-4.

Even then, Comcast might not be willing to provide us the spectrum we would need to have multiple digital services. On the local Comcast signal, WKAR occupies 1/2 of a 6mhz (38 mb) QAM channel. Within that 1/2 of a channel, we can have one HD (which is all Comcast has turned on) or the HD + SD + SD + SD. We would need a full QAM channel to have half dedicated to HD and the other half to the 3 SD services.

As to "half of audience via MSOs" I don't know. We have only received notification from Comcast (for some systems), Millennium, and the Coldwater municipal system that they are carrying us. Because we are a public station, we are not offered an opportunity to negotiate for carriage, basically we radiate bits and if a cable system wishes to carry us, they can. It's not even required that they tell us.Gary,
Thanks for the peek under the hood. I like to think of myself as reasonably well-informed on CATV, telecom and the like, and I'm embarrassed at how rarely I can attach even a rough pricetag in my mind when I read (or make) a suggestion regarding a change in service.

Edit for typo.

Gary,
Thanks for the peak under the hood. I like to think of myself as reasonably well-informed on CATV, telecom and the like, and I'm embarrassed at how rarely I can attach even a rough pricetag in my mind when I read (or make) a suggestion regarding a change in service.

Don't feel embarrassed, there's no way you would know unless we share that information. WKAR has not spent a lot of time informing viewers how much we have spent.... or still need to spend.

Including our first steps into digital in 2000 with a digital production switcher, router, video tape recorders and video server we have spent over 2.6 million dollars.... .thus far. This does not include any HD production equipment. Something freighting: The short useful life of equipment. Of the items we purchased in 2000 we are in process of replacing the video server (we actually have for program material.... interstitial elements move to the server as soon as we get the automation system to work) We have replaced the standard definition digital router with a router capable of SD and HD.

Good news is that items we need are getting less expensive. Bad news is that we need a lot of items. We have major expenses coming up in the immediate future for conversion to channel 40 by 2/18/09. Another 2 million dollars including replacement of our 1953 tower.

As an HD viewer myself I understand your concerns. As a broadcaster, especially as a broadcaster with a public service mission I'm more conflicted.

We have to consider all of our viewers, not just those with HD sets, although certainly we do have to consider those viewers as well, and yes, you are right... as the price for HD sets gets less, there will be more viewers with HD sets.

You mention the "100s of channels in HD on DirecTV" unfortunately neither DirecTV nor Echostar/Dish network carry -any- local-into-local HD signals in the Lansing market at this time. Further, I've been told that neither DirecTV nor Dish carry -any- public television station in any of the markets for which they provide HD signals from over-the-air stations.

19% of the audience in our DMA receives the WKAR-TV analog signal exclusively over-the-air. Digital television sets have become very inexpensive ($99 can buy a standard-definition 14" set now) The federal "$40 coupon" program for set-top boxes launches next year. I'm thinking (hoping) that we'll still have lots of over-the-air viewers on our digital services after 2/18/09.

We are still planning to continue to offer the HD service. For the next year I expect that it will continue as the PBS|HD channel, which is largely upconverted widescreen and where most of the schedule is repeats.

Just as an aside, the February 2007 Nielsen DMA Household Universe Estimates show in these percentages in the Lansing market (#112)

19.1 broadcast only
80.9 Cable + ADS
56.9 Wired Cable
24.1 Satellite/DBS

Total households is 256,190



Not '100s of channels of HD' from Directv in near future but 'over 100 channels of HD content. It is just that talk of reducing HD content over Public TV is counter to what the future really will look like. Within 10 years HD in the home will be the norm. Of course, at that point, something much better than our current HD will be on the horizon. Bottom line, all tv stations should be thinking about moving into HD in a big way. Of course, I understand that cost is a major consideration here.
With the commercial tv stations, competition will force all of them, who want to survive, into local HD. Channel 7 in Detroit is a good example of a station leading the way here. HD is definitely here and we must go forward.

Not '100s of channels of HD' from Directv in near future but 'over 100 channels of HD content. It is just that talk of reducing HD content over Public TV is counter to what the future really will look like. Within 10 years HD in the home will be the norm. Of course, at that point, something much better than our current HD will be on the horizon. Bottom line, all tv stations should be thinking about moving into HD in a big way. Of course, I understand that cost is a major consideration here.
With the commercial tv stations, competition will force all of them, who want to survive, into local HD. Channel 7 in Detroit is a good example of a station leading the way here. HD is definitely here and we must go forward.

Channel 7 in Detroit is the flagship of the Scripps Broadcast Group. They have more money that the Beatles.

WKAR is continuing to broadcast in HD, and we are making investments in HD production. Just this week we took delivery of our HD editing system and, expect to have a three or four camera HD production system on line in the next few months.

I just moved to Lansing last week and got Comcast HD installed yesterday. Two issues I am having already.
1.) All HD programs are being output in 1080i regardless of source. How do I let it pass through the native resolution?
2.) On some HD stations, the audio mix is wrong. For whatever reason the center channel is being combined and output through the woofer. Incidently this is mostly on what should be 720p stations, with the exception of National Geographic HD and Discovery HD.

I know the problem isnt with my hardware as other HD and SD stations output normally. Has anyone heard of this happening before? How can I go about fixing it?

I just moved to Lansing last week and got Comcast HD installed yesterday. Two issues I am having already.
1.) All HD programs are being output in 1080i regardless of source. How do I let it pass through the native resolution?
2.) On some HD stations, the audio mix is wrong. For whatever reason the center channel is being combined and output through the woofer. Incidently this is mostly on what should be 720p stations, with the exception of National Geographic HD and Discovery HD.

I know the problem isnt with my hardware as other HD and SD stations output normally. Has anyone heard of this happening before? How can I go about fixing it?
1) The Comcast boxes passes either 720p or 1080i as selected from the setup menu. There is no option to pass the native resolution however.

2) I have no clue about the audio, however, National Geographic is a 720p channel.

Good news is that items we need are getting less expensive. Bad news is that we need a lot of items. We have major expenses coming up in the immediate future for conversion to channel 40 by 2/18/09. Another 2 million dollars including replacement of our 1953 tower.


Is WKAR-TV still using a tower from the first days of WKAR-TV, before MSU shared channel 10 with the old WILX/WMSB station? For some reason I thought that WKAR-TV built a new (very tall) tower in the early 70's when they moved to channel 23.

Is WKAR-TV still using a tower from the first days of WKAR-TV, before MSU shared channel 10 with the old WILX/WMSB station? For some reason I thought that WKAR-TV built a new (very tall) tower in the early 70's when they moved to channel 23.

Yes. No.

The tower currently used by WKAR-TV and WKAR-FM was built in 1953. WKAR-TV first went on the air in January, 1954 on channel 60.

Michigan State University built a new tower in the Onondaga area in 1959 that was shared between WMSB-TV and WILX-TV on channel 10. (Since WKAR radio was licensed to East Lansing, the call letters "WKAR" could not be used for a television station licensed to Onondaga)

In 1972 MSU sold it's interest in the channel 10 license and the property (tower, building, transmitter) to WILX and moved back to the UHF band, and back to the -same- tower in Okemos.

More information is available on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKAR-TV

1) The Comcast boxes passes either 720p or 1080i as selected from the setup menu. There is no option to pass the native resolution however.

2) I have no clue about the audio, however, National Geographic is a 720p channel.

No option to pass the native resolution? Which genius thought that one up? For one of the very first boxes I could believe it, but for something they're selling/leasing in July of 2007?

Gary,

Thanks for the history lesson. I still have a old tube type UHF TV converter in my basement that my parents used to pick up the old WKAR-TV. Things sure have changed over the years, I'm sure there is no microprocessor in that "set top box".

Mark

I am watching the Brittish open on channel 41 I t appears to be in 16x9 format but the quality appears to be sd. Channel 53 shows a 4x3 for mat and appears to be sd.

Does this mean that channel 53 has not flipped the hd switch or is Channel 41 showing a 16x9 format stretched?



John

It is amazing that the British Open isn't in HD on ABC. TNT broadcast the first two days in glorious high definition. I checked some web sites that are usually quite accurate about sports in HD and the open isn't listed. Can't understand it.

From HDSportsGuide.com earlier this week:

In case you were wondering why we are not listing The British Open in our guide, both TNT and ABC will be upconverting the standard definition widescreen feed to HD resolution. It will be 16x9 but it is not true high definition.

Where in the setup menu do I go to change the resolution? I have been looking around and can't seem to find any option for this...

1) The Comcast boxes passes either 720p or 1080i as selected from the setup menu. There is no option to pass the native resolution however.

2) I have no clue about the audio, however, National Geographic is a 720p channel.

Assuming you have the Motorola box, you turn the box off and push the menu button, with the TV on. This will give you the set up menu and when you have your settings selected, turn the box back off, and they should be set.

Thanks.

Does anyone know if we get Comcast SportsNet Chicago as part of the Lansing package?

Assuming you have the Motorola box, you turn the box off and push the menu button, with the TV on. This will give you the set up menu and when you have your settings selected, turn the box back off, and they should be set.

Thanks.

Does anyone know if we get Comcast SportsNet Chicago as part of the Lansing package?
no on getting CSN Chicago. Even if you could get it all of the pro sports would have to be blackedout in Michigan.

Channel 7 in Detroit is the flagship of the Scripps Broadcast Group. They have more money that the Beatles.

WKAR is continuing to broadcast in HD, and we are making investments in HD production. Just this week we took delivery of our HD editing system and, expect to have a three or four camera HD production system on line in the next few months.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WKAR TV seems to be a leader in HD; just hope the station continues at the forefront.
I hear this sad comment, from some public tv quarters about the cutback in HD, and become somewhat worried. Please do continue to be a leader.

I live near Celina Ohio and was receiving digital channel 10 from Lansing last night. Can anyone tell me the Kw power of that station or why I am suddenly able to pull it in?

Question regarding the Comcast Motorola HD box - does it make a lick of difference what compression level my audio is set to? The tech initially set it to 'Heavy', but I turned it off post hookup.

I don't think it applies to the digital audio output, only the analog ones. Assuming you have your audio output going to a receiver, then you would set the audio choices there. Hope this helps.

Mr. Freon,

The FCC web site shows WILX-DT on digital channel 57, running 43.4kW under a "STA", they have a Construction Premit for 500kW, so I'm not sure how much power they really are running.

My guess as to why you were able to get them is because of a weather condition called "Tropospheric Ducting" or also just called "Tropo" by TV-DXers and ham radio operators. This type of band opening is common this time of year when you have calm still weather at night, and a large high pressure system in the area. A web site you may want to check out for possible good band conditions for looking for distant TV stations is:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Mr. Freon,

The FCC web site shows WILX-DT on digital channel 57, running 43.4kW under a "STA", they have a Construction Premit for 500kW, so I'm not sure how much power they really are running.

My guess as to why you were able to get them is because of a weather condition called "Tropospheric Ducting" or also just called "Tropo" by TV-DXers and ham radio operators. This type of band opening is common this time of year when you have calm still weather at night, and a large high pressure system in the area. A web site you may want to check out for possible good band conditions for looking for distant TV stations is:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Thanks for the info!!
If you know of any other usefull websites, please let me know.

It is amazing that the British Open isn't in HD on ABC. TNT broadcast the first two days in glorious high definition. I checked some web sites that are usually quite accurate about sports in HD and the open isn't listed. Can't understand it.

I called wwmt in K'zoo on Sunday and got the upconvert turned on until the lotto scores took it into SD and I had quit paying attention so i didn't call back to get the playoff turned on in the hd feed.

I have the Motorola HD box hooked up via a DVI to HDMI cable. Is it possible to adjust the color space on the cable box? It is currently in a limited setting, whereas I need an extended setting.

Food HD on 197 and Home and Garden HD on 198 are live on Comcast.

Watching Giada's Weekend and its very nice, good shots of San Francisco

Nice that the new comcast HD channels are up!

So what is the latest status of Directv HD channels for Lansing, I'd like to switch from Comcast at some point, but was waiting for HD locals and especially FSN HD!
(can't live without that)

Can someone break it down for me?

Nice that the new comcast HD channels are up!

So what is the latest status of Directv HD channels for Lansing, I'd like to switch from Comcast at some point, but was waiting for HD locals and especially FSN HD!
(can't live without that)

Can someone break it down for me?

FSN Detroit HD should go live on a CONUS beam when D10 goes live, as for the HD LiLs, that won't be until D11 is up and running.

They already show most FSN-Detroit broadcasts in HD on Ch 95 when the Detroit teams are at home. Pretty sure thats how Comcast does it too.

Its weird about the Lansing locals taking so long, seeing how Detroit and Grand Rapids are already up.

Nice that the new comcast HD channels are up!

So what is the latest status of Directv HD channels for Lansing, I'd like to switch from Comcast at some point, but was waiting for HD locals and especially FSN HD!
(can't live without that)

Can someone break it down for me?

Its weird about the Lansing locals taking so long, seeing how Detroit and Grand Rapids are already up.

Market size. Detroit= 11, Grand Rapids = 39, Lansing = 110. (2005/06 rankings http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=45455 )

I've been told that DirecTV does not include any public television stations in any of their HD market local-into-local services.

I left my air-conditioned hovel for several hours and when I returned my D* H20 receiver looked different. For one thing the lettering and menus look a little different, like maybe an update loarded while I was laboring in this ungodly heat. Then I flipped over to Fox Sports Detroit for the Tiger game and the pregame show was stretched. I have my H20 set for native resolution, so what that indicates is that FSD is stretching a 4:3 SD signal out to 16:9 SD. Did I spend too much time out in the heat, is my receiver fubar, or is FSD really stretching its picture? All the other SD channels I've checked are properly showing in 4:3.

It also looks like the H20 really wants four digits now instead of the standard three, such as if an update occurred and there will be a major channel shuffle.

Has anybody seen if the Big Ten Network will be offering a subscription to its regional football broadcasts?

Has anybody seen if the Big Ten Network will be offering a subscription to its regional football broadcasts?

Not that I know of, just have to get your provider to carry the big ten network

I'm thinking of getting a TiVo HD. My understanding is that Comcast is all over the map on billing for and supporting Cablecards.

Anyone have experience getting a Cablecard in East Lansing?

Has anybody seen if the Big Ten Network will be offering a subscription to its regional football broadcasts?

BTN will be on DirecTV.

--------------------
http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2007/07/31/sports/doc46b0026324e6e561539869.txt

So far, despite agreements with DirecTV, AT&T and more than 70 smaller cable providers, the conference is at a stalemate with all major operators including Comcast, which has 5.7 million subscribers within Big Ten states.

Silverman said the league remains steadfast on the subject of placement.

“Every deal we’ve done so far is expanded basic,” he said. “We’re looking to have that continue in all our deals. They talk about a sports tier. We are not going on a sports tier in the eight-state region. It’s wrong.

....

For now, the Big Ten seems to have backed off telling fans to switch to providers carrying the network. But in the days to come, that tactic will come into play if Comcast and the Big Ten remain at odds.

Somehow, the Big Ten will probably get its placement in expanded basic. Maybe not at the price of $1.10 per subscriber that it’s asking. Maybe not close to that price.

---------------------

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=696391

At this point, the Big Ten Network – which will air four Big Ten football games on Sept. 1 – is only available through DirecTV. Silverman estimated about 20 percent of consumers in the Big Ten area subscribe to the satellite television service.

Silverman and major cable operators Comcast, Cox and Time-Warner disagree how the Big Ten Network should be distributed. He maintains it should be offered on expanded basic cable within the eight states that are home to Big Ten teams – Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.


------------------------

Not that I know of, just have to get your provider to carry the big ten network

Thanks to you and Gary for the responses. I have D*, so I'm covered there. My question pertained to the two or three extra games they should have every week which will be regionally syndicated like they were in previous years as ESPN Plus games. ABC will get one game in the afternoon, ESPN gets to pick one or two for national/regional broadcast, and the rest get syndicated by BTN. One game will be featured on BTN in prime time several weeks, so what about the rest of the games? Will we be able to subscribe to a package? They used to be in ESPN GamePlan, but won't anymore. The only Big Ten football games that will be on GamePlan will be the ones chosen by ESPN for national/regional broadcast, not the syndicated game broadcasts. Basketball fans will have a similar quandary.

Thanks to you and Gary for the responses. I have D*, so I'm covered there. My question pertained to the two or three extra games they should have every week which will be regionally syndicated like they were in previous years as ESPN Plus games. ABC will get one game in the afternoon, ESPN gets to pick one or two for national/regional broadcast, and the rest get syndicated by BTN. One game will be featured on BTN in prime time several weeks, so what about the rest of the games? Will we be able to subscribe to a package? They used to be in ESPN GamePlan, but won't anymore. The only Big Ten football games that will be on GamePlan will be the ones chosen by ESPN for national/regional broadcast, not the syndicated game broadcasts. Basketball fans will have a similar quandary.

From BTN FAQ (http://www.bigtennetwork.com/managex/index.asp?ArticleSource=418)

Q: In the past, I was able watch Big Ten games produced by ESPN Regional via pay-per-view on ESPN GamePlan or ESPN Full Court. Will Big Ten Network-produced football and men's basketball games be available on ESPN GamePlan or ESPN Full Court?

A: Big Ten Network games will not be part of the GamePlan or Full Court packages, but the BTN is making all of the games it produces available to cable and satellite operators as part of their agreements to carry the Big Ten Network. Whenever the Big Ten Network is producing more than one game at a time, cable and satellite providers that have agreed to carry the Big Ten Network will be offered the chance to carry the additional games via "overflow" channels. For example, let's assume that at noon ET one Saturday the Big Ten Network is producing two games (Penn State vs. Illinois and Michigan vs. Northwestern). If the Penn State-Illinois game is airing on the Big Ten Network, your cable or satellite system will be given the rights to carry the Michigan-Northwestern game on an "overflow" channel. Overall, the Big Ten Network will be producing significantly more football and men's basketball games than have aired regionally in recent years, and these games will be made available to all cable and satellite systems as part of their contracts to carry the Big Ten Network.

So far NFL HD has been added in DC/Balt, Boston, and Hartford. Hartford has a similar channel lineup to the Michigan Comcast systems, so I'm guessing whenever the full time NFL Network shows up it will be on channel 214.

I can't imagine that Detroit wouldn't get the channel added being that they are an NFL town, then as usual, Lansing/GR will see it a few weeks later.

I was hoping it might pop on before the Hall of Fame game on Sunday night, but hopefully MojoHD will get preempted as it did last year. Only problem was that when the game ran over the time slot, Mojo programming came back on at 11pm.

They must have heard I was about to sic Jeff on them to carry the extra games

DIRECTV To Carry Network On Channel 220
Satellite provider commits to carrying overflow games

DIRECTV has designated its Channel 220 as the location of the Big Ten Network. The satellite provider has also committed to carrying the network's overflow games for the previously announced football schedule.

They must have heard I was about to sic Jeff on them to carry the extra games

DIRECTV To Carry Network On Channel 220
Satellite provider commits to carrying overflow games

DIRECTV has designated its Channel 220 as the location of the Big Ten Network. The satellite provider has also committed to carrying the network's overflow games for the previously announced football schedule.

Can only hope for Comcast to come through now on BTN...

I caught a rerun of Law and Order: CI on channel 10 last night and saw that WILX is inserting HD graphics into the feed. Whenever it came back from commercial, the WILX logo was in the lower left corner, then disappered and the national NBC HD logo came up.

Hopefully this means that all crawls and bugs will be in HD now and we won't have to deal with programming dropping into 4x3.

Props to WILX

Comcast dropped the ball tonight with the NFL Network HD. Mojo was not preempted for the coverage of the Hall of Fame game.

I actually emailed Comcast this morning regarding their hypocrisy of their own sports networks versus (intentional pun) other sports networks. Its pathetic how they make claims about cost and consumer bills, but they just keep jacking up the prices. I never saw my bill go down when Comcast moved the NFL Network to the S&E tier, but Comcast claims that they will have to raise everyone's bill to add the Big Ten Network. Then they require that their RSNs, The Golf Channel, Versus, etc be on extended basic packages.

If Comcast can't get keep pace with the other video providers, then they will start losing subs let and right.

I caught a rerun of Law and Order: CI on channel 10 last night and saw that WILX is inserting HD graphics into the feed. Whenever it came back from commercial, the WILX logo was in the lower left corner, then disappered and the national NBC HD logo came up.

Hopefully this means that all crawls and bugs will be in HD now and we won't have to deal with programming dropping into 4x3.

Props to WILX

Got a reply from Gary, the system installed is very limited for the time being, crawls and weather bugs will still be in SD, but its a step in the right direction.

Got a reply from Gary, the system installed is very limited for the time being, crawls and weather bugs will still be in SD, but its a step in the right direction.

Crawling before walking, my boy...

Comcast dropped the ball tonight with the NFL Network HD. Mojo was not preempted for the coverage of the Hall of Fame game.

I actually emailed Comcast this morning regarding their hypocrisy of their own sports networks versus (intentional pun) other sports networks. Its pathetic how they make claims about cost and consumer bills, but they just keep jacking up the prices. I never saw my bill go down when Comcast moved the NFL Network to the S&E tier, but Comcast claims that they will have to raise everyone's bill to add the Big Ten Network. Then they require that their RSNs, The Golf Channel, Versus, etc be on extended basic packages.

If Comcast can't get keep pace with the other video providers, then they will start losing subs let and right.

You know darned well they are feeling the heat. Just the fact they are assaulting the airwaves with the b!tch with the big fake teeth and that irritating Zack is enough to tell you how worried they are. They have made huge media buys the last two years. You know that primary sponsorship of Tiger games couldn't have been cheap, too. For all the complaints about the satellite networks I hear a bunch of compliments for them as well. I have yet to meet a satisfied Comcast customer.

That hooey about the dishes being out with bad weather hasn't worked out for them either. Sure you can lose a satellite signal for a while in a big storm, but if your dish is aimed properly your signal will be back soon enough. I lose signal maybe four or five times a year and generally only for a few minutes (10 or less) when it does happen. Back when that nice ice storm blew through Michigan this past winter there were huge blocks of Comcast customers in the Jackson area that were out as long as a week. There's no advertising that can overcome that.

You know darned well they are feeling the heat. Just the fact they are assaulting the airwaves with the b!tch with the big fake teeth and that irritating Zack is enough to tell you how worried they are. They have made huge media buys the last two years. You know that primary sponsorship of Tiger games couldn't have been cheap, too. For all the complaints about the satellite networks I hear a bunch of compliments for them as well. I have yet to meet a satisfied Comcast customer.

That hooey about the dishes being out with bad weather hasn't worked out for them either. Sure you can lose a satellite signal for a while in a big storm, but if your dish is aimed properly your signal will be back soon enough. I lose signal maybe four or five times a year and generally only for a few minutes (10 or less) when it does happen. Back when that nice ice storm blew through Michigan this past winter there were huge blocks of Comcast customers in the Jackson area that were out as long as a week. There's no advertising that can overcome that.

I agree 100%, Comcast is gonna feel it in the next few months if they don't get their head on straight and realize what the hell is going on.

Has anyone else been experiencing breakups of the latest new Comcast HD channels (Food Network and HGTV)? We're seeing a lot of pixelation especially during "prime" time.

Has anyone else been experiencing breakups of the latest new Comcast HD channels (Food Network and HGTV)? We're seeing a lot of pixelation especially during "prime" time.

I haven't watched them in the last two days, but all previous viewing was rock solid. I'll take a peek tonight and see what is happening.

We are getting severe breakups on 197 (Food) and 198 (HGTV) right now. If you monitoring the site, let me know if you are as well. Thanks.

We are getting severe breakups on 197 (Food) and 198 (HGTV) right now. If you monitoring the site, let me know if you are as well. Thanks.

Yup I see them too. I'll drop an email to Comcast.

I agree 100%, Comcast is gonna feel it in the next few months if they don't get their head on straight and realize what the hell is going on.


And Comcast also get their signals from 'the dish'.

We are getting severe breakups on 197 (Food) and 198 (HGTV) right now. If you monitoring the site, let me know if you are as well. Thanks.

Just because they're broadcasting in HD resolution doesn't mean they're giving us HD bit-rates.. I bet they're sharing a 20mbit/sec channel at best. 10Mbit/sec will not look very good when things start moving.

This is like the DVD crap.. there's basically no way of telling if you have a good high bit rate encoding or a garbage low bit rate single layer disc... until you buy it and see how good or bad it looks. This is one of my personal pet peeves.. all DVDs are NOT created equally! At least when CD's came out they gave you the AAD DAD ADD or DDD tags to tell you how they were processed.

Anyone Else notice that FSN-HD is having issues with image quality lately.. I get al lot of brightness variation.. within a few seconds will go from looking clean to seeing blocks of distorted color in previously clean dark areas. Their quality(resolution) overall does not seem to be that much better than good SD. Wondering if they're splitting a channel 3 ways now with FoodHD and HGTV-HD.

I doubt Comcast dedicates a channel to FSN-HD since it so rarely has programming. Anyone know what the native resolution is for FSN-HD?

Just because they're broadcasting in HD resolution doesn't mean they're giving us HD bit-rates.. I bet they're sharing a 20mbit/sec channel at best. 10Mbit/sec will not look very good when things start moving.

This is like the DVD crap.. there's basically no way of telling if you have a good high bit rate encoding or a garbage low bit rate single layer disc... until you buy it and see how good or bad it looks. This is one of my personal pet peeves.. all DVDs are NOT created equally! At least when CD's came out they gave you the AAD DAD ADD or DDD tags to tell you how they were processed.

This was from a Comcast senior analyst that was assigned to me in February when we had the FSNHD/VSGLF debacle, but the quote was that Comcast does not use rate shaping or any other means to modify the signal. They pass along what they get from individual network.

Seeing as Food HD and HGTV HD are fine all day, there is some sort of a **** up in Comcast's network.

at 19.3mbs, Comcast can fit two HD signals in a 6Mhz QAM channel. I guessing that most HD networks don't use the full 19.3mbs, so you prolly have two HDs and a few sds in a QAM channel.

The Fox Network caps out at around 15mbs using the splicer system, and I've never seen a major ongoing issue from them.

We are getting severe breakups on 197 (Food) and 198 (HGTV) right now. If you monitoring the site, let me know if you are as well. Thanks.

I received a reply from Comcast

Thank you for taking the time to email us. It is only through
communications such as yours that we can be responsive to your needs.

We are aware of the problems you are experiencing with your cable
service and do apologize for the inconvenience. At this time, we have
technicians working on the problem and hope to have it resolved as
quickly as possible.

Again jefbal99, I apologize for the loss of service and thank you for
your patience.

If you have any questions regarding the above information or if I can be
of assistance to you in the future, please feel free to contact me or
call 1-888-COMCAST.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

Sincerely,

Ursula
Comcast Customer Care Specialist

NFL Network HD added on channel 181, Sports and Entertainment tier needed.

Comcast now has 23 HDs available

Anyone else still having issues with FSN-HD? I am...

Anyone else still having issues with FSN-HD? I am...

Yeah, its still jittery

So I was sitting here pondering the purchase of an HD Tivo.

For $300 I get a DVR and own it, then for another $300 upfront, I get the service for 3 years ($8.30/month) and that is less than I'm paying Comcast for the DVR service and additional STB rental. Plus I can upgrade the Hard drive and the tivo interface is much more user friendly/intelligent than the Moto's.

I contacted Comcast to find out about M-cards (multi-stream cable cards) and the tech had no idea what I was refering to. I explained what an M-card was and he said that I would have to get two cable cards.

Then I tried to pull up my bill on Comcast's website. I wanted to compare all the costs and see if it was really going to be worth the cash up front for the long term savings and as usual, the comcast site sucks. I can only get a summary of the last bill i paid. No links for previous months bills, no further information, just a 4 line summary that doesn't tell me anything. Once again contacted comcast support and got sick of waiting for a tech so after 35 mins and still 18 people in line in front of me, i closed the window. I guess I'll just have to grab my bill at home and see what additional costs will go away.

I'd love to give less money to Comcast. Their rates hikes over the years have not been justified in what services have been added.

I receive channel 6 and 53 hd via ota antenna. I am receiving wrong program info or non at all.
For example it showed csi when another program is on or none at all

Does anyone else also have the same problem or maybe its my sony hd set?



John

Liteguy2004,

I don't think WLAJ-DT ever puts their program information out, at least the receiver we use the most never displays real program information for 53-1 or 53-2. I think your problem with WLNS-DT is because their clock is messed up and off an hour (or your TV's tuner is because the station your getting your clock information from is off). It seems like once a month or so I have to change (in the setup menu) our receiver's station that it goes to get the time.

Mark

Updated E* listing for HDs that go live tomorrow and FSN Detroit HD

If you want to talk to WLAJ engineering, then you need to look up contact info for WWMT in K'Zoo. They handle all Master Control for WLAJ.

Hi,

I'm going to be moving back into the Lansing area and am trying to find out the best HD provider to go with. I'm really leaning towards E*, due to low prices and the most HD programming, but I'm skeptical about the local stations in HD. I called a E* representative and I was told immediately that my area had local stations in HD, even though I wasn't asked my zip code. So I asked again, and I was told something like "If the local stations are broadcast in HD in your area, the dish will pick them up". So, does anyone have E* or D* and can verify that this is true or false? I'm thinking I'd need to buy (get them to give me for free) and OTA Antenna, and would that work with a tunerless HDTV? Any help is appreciated.

Justin

Hi,
So, does anyone have E* or D* and can verify that this is true or false?

Justin

Neither Dish Network or DirecTV are carrying any local-into-local signals in the Lansing market in High Definition.

Hi,

I'm going to be moving back into the Lansing area and am trying to find out the best HD provider to go with. I'm really leaning towards E*, due to low prices and the most HD programming, but I'm skeptical about the local stations in HD. I called a E* representative and I was told immediately that my area had local stations in HD, even though I wasn't asked my zip code. So I asked again, and I was told something like "If the local stations are broadcast in HD in your area, the dish will pick them up". So, does anyone have E* or D* and can verify that this is true or false? I'm thinking I'd need to buy (get them to give me for free) and OTA Antenna, and would that work with a tunerless HDTV? Any help is appreciated.

Justin

Both STBs from D* and E* have OTA tuners that will get your locals. See the first post in this thread and you'll have all the info you need :)

Just wanted to say thanks garybliev and jefbal99 for the heads-up. Also, I've read a lot of the posts previous to my own and I'd like to thank jefbal99 for giving comcast S* everytime (day) something goes wrong with their service. They do the same S* in the Detroit area.

Does Comcast have a newer/better HD DVR box than the DCT6412 III? I've gotten to the point where I'm just tired of dealing with all of the problems it has (lock ups, poor DVR software, etc..) Is there a new one out, or coming out soon?

Hey,

I liked the help I got on my previous question, so I thought I'd try another. I'm still thinking about getting E*, because it has the most HD channels and has the cheapest price (and I just don't trust Comcast), but as I was helpfully told, I need a separate antenna to receive HD local stations in Lansing.

1. Since this is the case, I wonder if I should drop the local stations from my E* package completely (Saving 5 dollars over 12 months, = $60), and then take that money and buy a OTA antenna and get the HD and SD local stations that way (assuming a HD OTA Antenna picks up SD channels). Should I just buy this antenna myself, and if so, where would you recommend and what model? Or, should I see if E* can provide me with one? Also, if E* began to offer local stations in HD off the dish, as this website (http://www.newedgesatellite.com/index.html) advertises on their top left corner, would the dish signal get me a better quality picture than my antenna? Lastly, is an OTA antenna difficult to set-up to a HD E* box, and if so, how would I go about it? I guess the installation has something to do with my location, which moves me on to...

2. I'm going to be living in an apartment on the 3rd floor, facing a golf course. I have my own private balcony that (I'd assume) would let me point these devices in any direction I'd need, with north and south walls (I haven't been there, brand new, just going from diagram) It seems southeast would be my best direction. Anyway, I called the apartment to ask if I could get E*, and I was told no (?), until I quoted this FCC regulation (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html) that says its against the law for them to deny me E*, if I choose its service. I am currently waiting for a callback. Am I correct in understanding that as long as the balcony I am using is privately leased to me, and my apartment, that I may install a Dish and Antenna onto it?

Thanks for reading if you got this far, and for any help you can provide to me. When I get whatever provider I choose, I will try to give back to the forum for the help its given me. Thanks again.

Does Comcast have a newer/better HD DVR box than the DCT6412 III? I've gotten to the point where I'm just tired of dealing with all of the problems it has (lock ups, poor DVR software, etc..) Is there a new one out, or coming out soon?

They have the DCT6416, however, its the same software as the 6412. It has a 160gb harddrive and I've been told that SD channels are much cleaner.

I've also read on this forum that there are some DCH3412/3416s in this area. I've never used one, but those boxes are Digital only.

Hey,

I liked the help I got on my previous question, so I thought I'd try another. I'm still thinking about getting E*, because it has the most HD channels and has the cheapest price (and I just don't trust Comcast), but as I was helpfully told, I need a separate antenna to receive HD local stations in Lansing.

1. Since this is the case, I wonder if I should drop the local stations from my E* package completely (Saving 5 dollars over 12 months, = $60), and then take that money and buy a OTA antenna and get the HD and SD local stations that way (assuming a HD OTA Antenna picks up SD channels). Should I just buy this antenna myself, and if so, where would you recommend and what model? Or, should I see if E* can provide me with one? Also, if E* began to offer local stations in HD off the dish, as this website (http://www.newedgesatellite.com/index.html) advertises on their top left corner, would the dish signal get me a better quality picture than my antenna? Lastly, is an OTA antenna difficult to set-up to a HD E* box, and if so, how would I go about it? I guess the installation has something to do with my location, which moves me on to...

2. I'm going to be living in an apartment on the 3rd floor, facing a golf course. I have my own private balcony that (I'd assume) would let me point these devices in any direction I'd need, with north and south walls (I haven't been there, brand new, just going from diagram) It seems southeast would be my best direction. Anyway, I called the apartment to ask if I could get E*, and I was told no (?), until I quoted this FCC regulation (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html) that says its against the law for them to deny me E*, if I choose its service. I am currently waiting for a callback. Am I correct in understanding that as long as the balcony I am using is privately leased to me, and my apartment, that I may install a Dish and Antenna onto it?

Thanks for reading if you got this far, and for any help you can provide to me. When I get whatever provider I choose, I will try to give back to the forum for the help its given me. Thanks again.

An OTA antenna will pick up both SD and HD channels. Your best bet is a combo VHF/UHF antenna that will pick up everything. I have never worked with the E* STBs, however, on the D* and any ATSC tuner, I've always just plugged in the coax and ran a scan. Better instructions can be posted by an E* sub.

We website looks like a Dish reseller/installer. While they may have insider info on the next DMA's to get HD LiLs, I wouldn't count on anything until Dish says it themselves.

I have lived on the south side of Lansing (Cedar and Northrup area) and on the west side (Willow and Waverly). In both places I have used (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103916) http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2266624w345.jpg a simple, indoor antenna from Radio Shack. One the southside I was on the 3rd floor and mainly used it to get WLAJ because Comcast didn't carry it. Now I point to the west and use it to get WOTV out of Battle Creek because WLAJ sucks. However, it pulls all locals just fine for me.

As for an apartment and DBS, you've got the OTARD info, so you should be all set.

Sorry if this has been covered already, the thread is rather long to wade through for specifics.

I'm out in Haslett, I've got E*, with HD and I'm currently doing OTA for locals in HD. I'm also a comcast subscriber, primarily for cable modem service, but since the price is effectively the same, I also have basic cable. Some people at work today were mentioning that Comcast is carrying the locals in HD over the wire, unencrypted(as required from what I understand). Anyway, I've given this a try but substituting my antenna feed for a cable feed, and then scanning on the "cable" setting, but I haven't ever gotten any channels that way. Am I maybe not getting that feed where I am? Or am I doing something wrong on teh E* receiver? The line I've plugged into is pole->1Ghz splitter->receiver, which I had to do because the line into the house won't reach where the receiver is.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!

Sorry if this has been covered already, the thread is rather long to wade through for specifics.

I'm out in Haslett, I've got E*, with HD and I'm currently doing OTA for locals in HD. I'm also a comcast subscriber, primarily for cable modem service, but since the price is effectively the same, I also have basic cable. Some people at work today were mentioning that Comcast is carrying the locals in HD over the wire, unencrypted(as required from what I understand). Anyway, I've given this a try but substituting my antenna feed for a cable feed, and then scanning on the "cable" setting, but I haven't ever gotten any channels that way. Am I maybe not getting that feed where I am? Or am I doing something wrong on teh E* receiver? The line I've plugged into is pole->1Ghz splitter->receiver, which I had to do because the line into the house won't reach where the receiver is.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!

Your TV needs to have a QAM tuner to receive clear digital cable channels

Ah I see, I didn't research carefully, I thought it had a QAM tuner in it.
Thanks!

So I'm watching pro b!tch volleyball today, May/Walsh vs Youngs/Branagh, in glorious HD on NBC. It's a good finals match out at the Boston Open. Good action, good picture. Then at 1 pm, WILX-DT1 uncermoniously dumps over to the Tigers-Yankees game. I only got to see the first game of the volleyball match and come to find out there was an upset. Bring me the engineeer's head!

So I'm watching pro b!tch volleyball today, May/Walsh vs Youngs/Branagh, in glorious HD on NBC. It's a good finals match out at the Boston Open. Good action, good picture. Then at 1 pm, WILX-DT1 uncermoniously dumps over to the Tigers-Yankees game. I only got to see the first game of the volleyball match and come to find out there was an upset. Bring me the engineeer's head!

WILX is the Tigers OTA network for Lansing. If you go back in this thread you will find other times we'vee become frustrated by this. I emailed Gary King and he passed up our suggestion of keeping the Tigers on the analog feed and NBC HD on the Digital feed, but we haven't seen a change yet.

Usually the guide data is updated, but sometimes its incorrect.

WILX is the Tigers OTA network for Lansing. If you go back in this thread you will find other times we'vee become frustrated by this. I emailed Gary King and he passed up our suggestion of keeping the Tigers on the analog feed and NBC HD on the Digital feed, but we haven't seen a change yet.

Usually the guide data is updated, but sometimes its incorrect.

I knew that but they usually don't show only half of a program then bail out of it when the Tigers come on. Generally they will fill that block with reruns or informercials up to game time rather than depart from an ongoing program.

New channel in the guide this morning, 255. Its not identified and every 30 min slot is TBA, but its a placed holder in the S&E tier for the Big Ten Network.

There is a note to visit a website to get the Big Ten Network on the S&E Teir.

New channel in the guide this morning, 255. Its not identified and every 30 min slot is TBA, but its a placed holder in the S&E tier for the Big Ten Network.

There is a note to visit a website to get the Big Ten Network on the S&E Teir.Does the channel assignment (255) imply an SD feed?

I'm on the East Lansing network, where Comcast still doesn't have the bandwidth to deliver WSYM-HD. So if they claim they'll willing to roll out BTN-HD as soon as Delaney drops the price, me having big laugh-laugh.

Does the channel assignment (255) imply an SD feed?

I'm on the East Lansing network, where Comcast still doesn't have the bandwidth to deliver WSYM-HD. So if they claim they'll willing to roll out BTN-HD as soon as Delaney drops the price, me having big laugh-laugh.

Comcast has made no mention of HD carriage

So I need D*'s Choice package to get BTN.

Startup Costs
2 DIRECTV® HD Receiver $198.00
Instant Online Rebate -$99.00
1 Handling and Delivery Fee $0.00
1 Standard Professional Installation $0.00
Total Startup Costs: $99.00
Your First Month's Bill
CHOICE $49.99
SPORTS PACK $12.00
HD Access $9.99
Lease Fee $4.99
Instant Rebate -$5.00
First Month's Total: $71.97

This is compared to the ~$100.00/month that Comcast charges me for the same thing, except i have a Comcast DVR, so take off the $13.00/month and I'm still savings $20/month. Plus all the HD that they will be adding as channels go live.

I'm giving Comcast until the week after the 1st round of B10 games, then my order goes in. And I'm pretty sure that I can talk them into some sort of a discount to get that 2nd receiver for free. Plus a free $50.00 VISA gift card.

I'm giving Comcast until the week after the 1st round of B10 games, then my order goes in.

The following information is not intended as a recommendation, just an advisory for those of you that might be considering DirecTV. Here is some recent news from Ohio (which may or may not be relevant to installation schedules in Central Michigan)...
------------------
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/08/22/Directv.ART_ART_08-22-07_A1_7I7MC2O.html

Satellite-dish installers in central Ohio are preparing for a crush of orders from Buckeye fans as the Big Ten Network continues its stalemate with Time Warner and other video-service providers.

With a week and a half remaining before the network broadcasts Ohio State University's football opener Sept. 1 against Youngstown State, time could be running out to install the systems before the game, the installers say.

DirecTV spokesman Robert Mercer said it will take an average of seven days to fill orders placed through the company. Third-party satellite installers also sell the service, however, and say they can get it done sooner.

I guess I'm just cheap. If I want to see the Big Ten Network, I guess I will have to do the same thing I do when ESPN has something on it I want to watch, and go to a local bar and pay by the glass to watch.....

The following information is not intended as a recommendation, just an advisory for those of you that might be considering DirecTV. Here is some recent news from Ohio (which may or may not be relevant to installation schedules in Central Michigan)...
------------------
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/08/22/Directv.ART_ART_08-22-07_A1_7I7MC2O.html

Satellite-dish installers in central Ohio are preparing for a crush of orders from Buckeye fans as the Big Ten Network continues its stalemate with Time Warner and other video-service providers.

With a week and a half remaining before the network broadcasts Ohio State University's football opener Sept. 1 against Youngstown State, time could be running out to install the systems before the game, the installers say.

DirecTV spokesman Robert Mercer said it will take an average of seven days to fill orders placed through the company. Third-party satellite installers also sell the service, however, and say they can get it done sooner.

That is contrary to what a D* rep told me. (Mind you this was s CSR and he was just trying to sell the service) I was informed that if I placed my order on 9/3 that I would be up and running before COB on 9/7

That is contrary to what a D* rep told me. (Mind you this was s CSR and he was just trying to sell the service) I was informed that if I placed my order on 9/3 that I would be up and running before COB on 9/7

I didn't say it was applicable here, in fact I said it might not be. Your local mileage may vary.

I have been getting 1 second audio drop outs on 23.1 lately. Anyone else notice this or is it just me?

These dropouts have been occurring for the last several days. I sent an email to WKAR this morning. Hope they can solve this. The high definition programming is almost unwatchable because of this.

These dropouts have been occurring for the last several days. I sent an email to WKAR this morning. Hope they can solve this. The high definition programming is almost unwatchable because of this.


You're right there are bunches of audio dropouts. We're checking on them.

Thanks for the note.

We reduced the maximum bit rate allowed to video, which has the byproduct of increasing the null packet count, now at about 600kbs. The audio pops seem to have gone away.

Let me know if you are still experiencing any difficulties.

Gary Blievernicht (517) 432-3120 x 201 garyb@wkar.org

We reduced the maximum bit rate allowed to video, which has the byproduct of increasing the null packet count, now at about 600kbs. The audio pops seem to have gone away.

Let me know if you are still experiencing any difficulties.

Gary Blievernicht (517) 432-3120 x 201 garyb@wkar.org

sweet, ill check it out when i get home. I was kind of disappointed about the aduio drop outs the other night during frontline. But anyways keep up the good work!

Last Friday, I had about a 45 minute conversation with Bill Connors from Comcast. He is the head of operations for the Midwest region (I sent a lengthy email to Steve Burke and he got me in contact with Bill).

First, the good that I took from the conversation with Bill...

Comcast will be rolling out a standardized Sports & Entertainment tier. We should eventually be seeing GolTV and CSTV added at some point, but no timeline was given. Comcast wants that consistent across the entire footprint.

Also, we should be seeing an HDPPV channel show up for In Demand HD events and Season Pass sports subscriptions. He is supposed to be getting back to me on this with a confirmation this week sometime.

Finally, a digital subscription is no longer required to subscribe to the Sports & Entertainment tier. A person with expanded basic can request and recieve only the Sports Tier and not purchase any other Digital package.

Now the bad...

Comcast is 100% against the Big Ten Network and apparently any sports properties that it doesn't own. They are accusing the BTN of taking away free games from the fans and "forcing" them to raise prices with a new network. Comcast claims that the Big Ten will be making upwards of $360m/year from this network.

I asked him about Versus and The Golf Channel being on expanded basic and he mildly avoided the question. He kept bring it back to the non-sports fans that would have to pay for this channel. I tried to bring up the massive profits for Comcast and the irregularities with the movement of the NFL Network and no answer was given.

Bill stated that over 70% of a persons cable bill is spent directly on programming costs. I have yet to locate any reports that confirm/deny that number.

I provided him some numbers that showed the channel when leveraged across the entire Comcast footprint, would cost less than $0.35/sub, but he replied with why should a person in Florida have to subsidize a channel that they have no interest in. At this point I tried to bring up ala carte, but the subject was quickly changed.

Bill told me that Comcast had not heard from the BTN in a few weeks and that there was no room for negotiation with the Big Ten. He indicated that the BTN was making all or nothing demands, yet since then, it has come out in the media that the Big Ten has gotten no counter offers from Comcast.

Bill also stated that on ANY given day, Comcast will take more subscribers from D*, than will go in the opposite direction. He said Comcast will not have a noticeable drop and D* doesn't expect any major jump just because of this one service.

Reading between the lines, Comcast's stance is that the BTN will be on the sports tier or there will be no agreement.

Last Friday, I had about a 45 minute conversation with Bill Connors from Comcast. He is the head of operations for the Midwest region (I sent a lengthy email to Steve Burke and he got me in contact with Bill).

First, the good that I took from the conversation with Bill...

Comcast will be rolling out a standardized Sports & Entertainment tier. We should eventually be seeing GolTV and CSTV added at some point, but no timeline was given. Comcast wants that consistent across the entire footprint.

Also, we should be seeing an HDPPV channel show up for In Demand HD events and Season Pass sports subscriptions. He is supposed to be getting back to me on this with a confirmation this week sometime.

Finally, a digital subscription is no longer required to subscribe to the Sports & Entertainment tier. A person with expanded basic can request and recieve only the Sports Tier and not purchase any other Digital package.

Now the bad...

Comcast is 100% against the Big Ten Network and apparently any sports properties that it doesn't own. They are accusing the BTN of taking away free games from the fans and "forcing" them to raise prices with a new network. Comcast claims that the Big Ten will be making upwards of $360m/year from this network.

I asked him about Versus and The Golf Channel being on expanded basic and he mildly avoided the question. He kept bring it back to the non-sports fans that would have to pay for this channel. I tried to bring up the massive profits for Comcast and the irregularities with the movement of the NFL Network and no answer was given.

Bill stated that over 70% of a persons cable bill is spent directly on programming costs. I have yet to locate any reports that confirm/deny that number.

I provided him some numbers that showed the channel when leveraged across the entire Comcast footprint, would cost less than $0.35/sub, but he replied with why should a person in Florida have to subsidize a channel that they have no interest in. At this point I tried to bring up ala carte, but the subject was quickly changed.

Bill told me that Comcast had not heard from the BTN in a few weeks and that there was no room for negotiation with the Big Ten. He indicated that the BTN was making all or nothing demands, yet since then, it has come out in the media that the Big Ten has gotten no counter offers from Comcast.

Bill also stated that on ANY given day, Comcast will take more subscribers from D*, than will go in the opposite direction. He said Comcast will not have a noticeable drop and D* doesn't expect any major jump just because of this one service.

Reading between the lines, Comcast's stance is that the BTN will be on the sports tier or there will be no agreement.

What he said about the BTN taking away "free" games is a bunch of crap. ABC still gets to pick a 3:30 football game, ESPN still gets to pick noon and prime-time games and BTN will syndicate games locally just like ESPN was doing. BTN will also syndicate local hoops telecasts and the basketball TV structure is the same. We actually get many more games because D* will offer all football games from BTN plus whatever other sports they show (hello, volleyball!) Comcrap doesn't like it because they don't control it and they have already been handed their heads sports-wise by FSN.

Comcrap knows sports fans shell out a lot of money and that's why they're holding them over a barrel. If those bastards had their way the only channels you would get on the basic tier would be home shopping channels, and they make tons of $ off those to show you for no extra charge. Everything else you'd pay extra for, including your locals which they show only because the FCC makes them.

As far as his numbers on the flow of subscribers, I have real doubts if you stack TV-only numbers that Comcast wins. Total new subscribers (including for WWW), I will stipulate to that.

What he said about the BTN taking away "free" games is a bunch of crap. ABC still gets to pick a 3:30 football game, ESPN still gets to pick noon and prime-time games and BTN will syndicate games locally just like ESPN was doing. BTN will also syndicate local hoops telecasts and the basketball TV structure is the same.


BTN has said they are not going to syndicate any games. Comcast point about taking away free games is that most of the ESPN Plus games in the past were syndicated on OTA stations, that are available on basic or free with an antenna.

BTN has said they are not going to syndicate any games. Comcast point about taking away free games is that most of the ESPN Plus games in the past were syndicated on OTA stations, that are available on basic or free with an antenna.

But when 3 games were going on at the same time, only one would be shown. The BTN is offering Alt feeds to all providers that want them as part of the basic carriage. It is up to the provider if they are going to offer the overflow games.

The advantages of the BTN far out weigh the disadvantages. If Comcast was the partner in the BTN rather than FSN, they would be pushing it the exact same way. Hell look at the articles this week with the new Comcast SportsNet Northwest. They are requiring basic carriage in Portland and then digital else where, except the asking price is over $2.00/sub. Plus most games will be in HD and once again, every game has the possibility of being available, rather then 1-2 gmaes per week with ESPN Regional.

The biggie is Men's B-ball this fall and winter. BTN has all the weekday games that were either not televised or ESPN Plus didn't show outside the home markets will be available now. I have my D* order ready and will make the switch with no issues, once D10 is online

FSN Detroit has their schedule up for the pistons (http://msn.foxsports.com/id/7166680)

This shows the FSN HD games, and a full schedule and what provider they will be on.

I believe the OTA games in Detroit are HD, but the Lansing station is still MyNetwork 18 and they don't do any HD.

But when 3 games were going on at the same time, only one would be shown. The BTN is offering Alt feeds to all providers that want them as part of the basic carriage. It is up to the provider if they are going to offer the overflow games.


Trust me, I fully understand the pros and cons of the BTN over ESPN Plus. My reply was just to state that BTN would not be syndicating any games and many of the games were previously on OTA stations.

To me it is too simplistic to blame Comcast or any other provider for not wanting to carry this network on expanded basic. To me this is two companies that are looking out for their own good as they should, with the fans unfortunately caught in the middle. If Comcast had a stake in the network it would of course be on Comcast from day 1, the fight would just be moved to another provider such as D*. Just look at the treatment that Golf Channel and Versus get on other carries then Comcast, those networks are only now getting be carriage as they have become more established and have acquired more high profile television rights. I think that Comcast's marketing about BTN is disenginous considering their ownership of similar sports channels, however, that is the nature of this business, in which most consumers don't know or don't care who owns what channel.

The football and basketball games that used to be only in the home markets, now being available across the whole big ten footprint (and the country) is a weak selling point. These games were the last pick of all the games available and would have had very little draw outside of those home markets.

I will be pissed off the first time I miss a State game but Comcast won't be the only one I will be blaming, BTN will recieve equal blame in my book.

Hey jefbal99,

I asked about E* and the OTARD info before. Let me briefly fill you in. I decided not to go with E* because I was told at first (by E*) that E* themselves do not do 3rd floor installations, and I needed to contact an E* provider, such as allsat, but I was told installation would likely involve "cementing a 6 foot pole on my wooden balcony" which I wasn't a fan of. I decided to give a couple D* outlets a call to learn that to get HDTV, I needed to sign a 2 year service agreement, which I don't want because I'm only going to live here for a year, and I don't know my plans before that. So, I decided Comcast was my only choice, and they were suprisingly cheaper than what D* offered me, but I learned at the COmcast office on Trowbridge road that my apartment wouldn't allow me to get Comcast. My apartment (DTN owned Riverwalk on S. Clippert) said it was a Comcast problem, Comcast said it was DTN, and when I finally got on the line with someone who knew what the F* they were talking about, she told me that I couldn't get Comcast and that D* was my only programming option and they "just found this out", even though I was told a week ago that I couldn't have E* and my choices were Comcast and D*.

So, I guess my questions to you are (as I think you're the only person who would have any clue, or this forum), first, is this even legal for them to monopolize television to my apartment? Is there anything I can do to fight to get Comcast? Also, do you know if this 2 year only HDTV contract is absolute on D*, or how much it would cost me to break the deal? It would seem that even though I planned and have made numerous calls to DTN management and spent the money on an HDTV, I won't get any HDTV, because I've been lied to numerous times and screwed over by misinformation. No, I didn't buy the OTA tuner model because I didn't think I'd need it. So, I guess, is it legal for me to be forced into D*, (even though I can still legally fight for E* that may not work and will damage my balcony, I think), and if it is not what should I do? Any reply would be overwhelmingly supportive. Thanks.

JusteBelmont86, I will do a little research and let you know what I find, but I believe that you are getting a bit of bad info from D* and E*. Comcast may not be an option if the cable line won't support the current network setup, etc.

On a different note, I just swung by the Comcast office on Miller Rd and picked up a DCH3416 DVR. First thing I noticed is that it contains an M-Card (multi stream cablecard). I called Comcast a few weeks ago and they stated M-Cards didn't exist, then once I proved to them they existed that Comcast didn't carry them. I now know that is completely not true. As has been stated in other areas, the DCH's handle SD channels a lot better than the DCT6412. The box seems a bit faster.

Also, 255 no longer has the static screen about being a placeholder for the BTN, and is now just a test pattern. I listened to the BTN launch teleconference this afternoon, currently Comcast is the only video provider that is not in talks to carry the channel.

There is a countdown clock for BTN on D* channel 220, which will be its main channel when it goes operational tonight. Overflow games will be on channels 218, 219 and 221.

There is a countdown clock for BTN on D* channel 220, which will be its main channel when it goes operational tonight. Overflow games will be on channels 218, 219 and 221.

drool, Cornell, has the guide been updated for 92, 94, or 98 for Saturday at noon? There is speculation that the 3 BTN HD games will show up there.

Very odd right now, both WSYM and WSYM HD have the Loins vs the Bills listed as programming, so does the NFL Network and NFL Network HD.

WSYM is showing that 70's show, NFL Network HD is blacked out and NFL Network as the Broncos vs. Cleveland.

WTF?!?!?

Very odd right now, both WSYM and WSYM HD have the Loins vs the Bills listed as programming, so does the NFL Network and NFL Network HD.

WSYM is showing that 70's show, NFL Network HD is blacked out and NFL Network as the Broncos vs. Cleveland.

WTF?!?!?

I assume it is the same case as Detroit, delayed broadcast because of the non-sellout.

drool, Cornell, has the guide been updated for 92, 94, or 98 for Saturday at noon? There is speculation that the 3 BTN HD games will show up there.

Nothing unusual listed for them yet. We have 36 hours to go before kickoff, though :)

I assume it is the same case as Detroit, delayed broadcast because of the non-sellout.

I thought WKBD and WSYM delayed all the home preseason games regardless. Anyway, the local broadcast was delayed two hours. Just as well fewer people saw it anyway as the Lions snatched another defeat from the jaws of victory.

It was weird early in the game because D* wasn't showing the game live on NFLN-HD, but did show it live on NFLN-SD until 9 pm. The Buffalo broadcast team was given the first half.

I was at the travesty in Ann Arbor so I don't know if D* showed any of the Big Ten Network afternoon games in HD. I did not see any listings for the two evening games for HD, just SD only.

I was at the travesty in Ann Arbor so I don't know if D* showed any of the Big Ten Network afternoon games in HD. I did not see any listings for the two evening games for HD, just SD only.

I was in East Lansing and the stadium exploded every time the score from Ann Arbor was announced

What's the latest gossip on WSYM 's plans for 47.2?

What's the latest gossip on WSYM 's plans for 47.2?

Haven't heard mention since the radio interview that was linked in the old thread this past winter I think.

I think it was a wkar news cast or something.

Am i way offbase?

Haven't heard mention since the radio interview that was linked in the old thread this past winter I think.

I think it was a wkar news cast or something.

Am i way offbase?

That sounds right. I was thinking it was even as far back as a last fall that 47.2 was brought up and then the topic disappeared.

That sounds right. I was thinking it was even as far back as a last fall that 47.2 was brought up and then the topic disappeared.

Yeah, I just found the two posts, it was back in early January...

I was listening to WKAR-FM this morning. They had a news item on DTV in Lansing, and it sounds like WSYM will be changing the programing on 47.2 sometime soon.

Scott Pohl's stoy is at:
http://wkar.org/morningedition/story.php?storyid=1044

(Real media encoded)

If I remember correctly, all it mention was there would be a programming change on 47.2, but never said anything specific. I can't get to WKAR from work so I'll have to listen to it again at home tonight.

I recall a post from jefbal99 that you got the new moto DCH 3416 cable box. I was wondering if you can still get wkar ch. 13 on it? The programing carried on 13 isn't carried on 240. The way I understand it, the DCH 3416 is only digital and has no analog tuner. Could you check that out, thanks.

I recall a post from jefbal99 that you got the new moto DCH 3416 cable box. I was wondering if you can still get wkar ch. 13 on it? The programing carried on 13 isn't carried on 240. The way I understand it, the DCH 3416 is only digital and has no analog tuner. Could you check that out, thanks.

Get it just fine, Lansing is running ADS, every channel has a digital simulcast.

Just checked the Channel status and it is at 735.0000MHz, I can't remember the conversion, but you can figure the QAM channel from that.

Watching a House re run tonight, I saw a WSYM PSA for 47.1 and free HDTV. "No need for digital cable or satellite TV, HDTV from WSYM is free on 47.1"

Kind of shocking actually, hope to see all of the stations doing this soon.

WILX needs to push 10.2

OK Jeffball and others correct me if i'm wrong here, I currently have comcast and am thinking of making the switch to D*:

So when D10 is activated D* will have FSNHD in lansing, and then phase in all the new channels over the next several weeks - with possibly on-demand next year.

Then we'll have to see how the MPEG-4 quality is on all of these new channels in comparison to comcast.

Then i get the new huge dish, the adapter thing installed, and have to buy the $199 (with 99 rebate) HD-DVR for my HD tv.

Also order additional regular DVR for bedroom.

Then I'll order plus package 69.99 + 2nd dvr fee (5$) = $75 a month

I have an old directv tivo receiver sony T180? that i loved, and my wife hates the comcast box which seems to be slowing down. So we've been thinking about switching for a while. But i want to make sure that i'm hooked up on the HD front.

Well, I went to the Miller Rd. office and got the new DCH 3416, thanks to the heads up from Jeff. Odd thing is when I got it home and all hooked up and called Comcast to get a signal sent to it, it was already activated. Weird, but whatever, it's all working good. Thanks Jeff. I love a free upgrade to my entertainment system! :D

I honestly don't know the answer, I've been lurking around over at DBStalk.com, trying to figure out what all I would need if I made the switch.

I'm really struggling to pay $199.99 for a HD DVR that I have to lease from them.

Also, since the Lansing locals are not on a spotbeam, you'll need an OTA antenna to get the Big 4 networks. I've been reading on multi-switches for multiple satellite signals to a receiver and diplexers to split OTA signals.

There is a lot of info out there.

So what are the benefits of getting the new 3416 box?

And you can just go in and exchange the box?

So what are the benefits of getting the new 3416 box?

And you can just go in and exchange the box?

Its not guaranteed that they will have any in stock.

It has a larger hard drive over the DCT6412/3412, it has a different chipset that handles the processing of the SD channels much better, the box has yet to do the remote control lockup that was common with my DCT, everything with the guide feels a lot faster and more responsive.

It is also based off from a Multi-stream cablecard (M-Card) rather than have all the extra coax connections on the back.

Yes you can just take in your current DVR and swap.

Awesome - thanks for the info! Mine's been really slow lately, locking up periodically. A faster box would be great.

Watching a House re run tonight, I saw a WSYM PSA for 47.1 and free HDTV. "No need for digital cable or satellite TV, HDTV from WSYM is free on 47.1"

Kind of shocking actually, hope to see all of the stations doing this soon.

WILX needs to push 10.2

I was glad to see that commercial running during an NFL preseason game a couple of weeks ago. It's about time one of the stations started actively promoting their digital sides. WILX does run one commercial about the 24-hour weather channel but does not mention that 10.2 is an OTA channel.

Our PSIP (electronic program guide) includes the schedule for WKAR-TV analog service. The theory was that if it was in the guide that viewers could click on the entry and be directed to the analog channel.

I only know of one set that uses this feature (a first generation Sony CRT)

Do you folk know of, or have, any sets currently using this feature? (this is my way of saying it if ain't used, we'll kill it... if it is used, we'll keep it)

(The latest television we've purchased here, the Sharp Aquos, does not much use the EPG/PSIP information for anything but a brief title display when tuning to the channel, or when the program changes.... very disappointing to have spent thousands of dollars (truly) to be able to generate PSIP and thousands of dollars for the latest in LCD sets to have the bits disappear in the either.)

Our PSIP (electronic program guide) includes the schedule for WKAR-TV analog service. The theory was that if it was in the guide that viewers could click on the entry and be directed to the analog channel.

I only know of one set that uses this feature (a first generation Sony CRT)

Do you folk know of, or have, any sets currently using this feature? (this is my way of saying it if ain't used, we'll kill it... if it is used, we'll keep it)

(The latest television we've purchased here, the Sharp Aquos, does not much use the EPG/PSIP information for anything but a brief title display when tuning to the channel, or when the program changes.... very disappointing to have spent thousands of dollars (truly) to be able to generate PSIP and thousands of dollars for the latest in LCD sets to have the bits disappear in the either.)

my cheap Polaroid LCD does not do this. But it would be kind of cool if it did.

On a side note, does anyone know when Devilcast (Comcast) did away with the $19.99 internet for 6 months? I went to get it and they only have $33.00 for 9 months.

What is the best plan for internet? Im willing to get cable if my total bill is less then $33.

I assume that noone has heard anything about DirecTV providing HD locals for the Lansing area? Besides OTA, are there any other solutions to getting HD locals in Lansing if you're on DirecTV?

I assume that noone has heard anything about DirecTV providing HD locals for the Lansing area? Besides OTA, are there any other solutions to getting HD locals in Lansing if you're on DirecTV?

Earliest anything I have heard is Q2 '08 after D11 is launched and in orbit

Hey jefbal99,

I asked about E* and the OTARD info before. Let me briefly fill you in. I decided not to go with E* because I was told at first (by E*) that E* themselves do not do 3rd floor installations, and I needed to contact an E* provider, such as allsat, but I was told installation would likely involve "cementing a 6 foot pole on my wooden balcony" which I wasn't a fan of. I decided to give a couple D* outlets a call to learn that to get HDTV, I needed to sign a 2 year service agreement, which I don't want because I'm only going to live here for a year, and I don't know my plans before that.

This seems to be very common, i've been lerking around at dbstalk recently and have run into many posts like this. Because of the size and weight of the larger dishes, the tripods seem to not be a viable option any longer. If you talk to a professional installer, they may be able to do some sort of a custom setup for you attaching the dish to a balcony roof or pillar. You can then talk to the dbs provider about getting some credits for the install.

As for the two year agreement, check with customer service about plans with not agreements. You will prolly lose any discounts on equipment or you can keep the service when you move. D* is available nationwide, so as long as you have a LOS, you can use it.

So, I decided Comcast was my only choice, and they were suprisingly cheaper than what D* offered me, but I learned at the COmcast office on Trowbridge road that my apartment wouldn't allow me to get Comcast. My apartment (DTN owned Riverwalk on S. Clippert) said it was a Comcast problem, Comcast said it was DTN, and when I finally got on the line with someone who knew what the F* they were talking about, she told me that I couldn't get Comcast and that D* was my only programming option and they "just found this out", even though I was told a week ago that I couldn't have E* and my choices were Comcast and D*.

Could be a wiring/cabling issue. could be a pissing match over $$$, could be anything, but apartments currently can have an exclusive agreement with a video service provider.

So, I guess my questions to you are (as I think you're the only person who would have any clue, or this forum), first, is this even legal for them to monopolize television to my apartment? yes Is there anything I can do to fight to get Comcast? talk to the people at the trowbridge rd and miller rd offices. go in and ask for a technical supervisor and see if you can get the "real" reason Also, do you know if this 2 year only HDTV contract is absolute on D*, or how much it would cost me to break the deal? have to check the contract and see what the charge is for breaking it. It would seem that even though I planned and have made numerous calls to DTN management and spent the money on an HDTV, I won't get any HDTV, because I've been lied to numerous times and screwed over by misinformation. No, I didn't buy the OTA tuner model because I didn't think I'd need it. So, I guess, is it legal for me to be forced into D*, (even though I can still legally fight for E* that may not work and will damage my balcony, I think), and if it is not what should I do? Any reply would be overwhelmingly supportive. Thanks.

i don't think you've been intentionally lied to or mis-led, most average joe employees of a housing complex have no clue about video services and just repeat what has been told to them. You can pick up an ATSC tuner for a decent price at a big box electronics store and use that for your OTA HD. If you had D* or E*, you'd still need an UHF antenna, but their receivers have ATSC tuners built in.

I'd look in the phone book for professional dish installers and talk to them about options of mounting your dish

Updated first post to reflect E*'s HD additions this week, including The Big Ten Network. It just got tougher as the Voom channels look very nice

Updated first post to reflect E*'s HD additions this week, including The Big Ten Network. It just got tougher as the Voom channels look very nice

Is BTN HD-only on E* or do they have an SD channel as well?

What a great week of football we've had so far (Michigan excepted, damn you Lloyd Carr). And was it just me, or was WILX-DT1 looking very crisp Thursday night, kind of like they quintuple-checked every thing to make sure the HD telecast looked about as well as you can make a 41-10 game look technically?

Oh, and why is it that Kelly Clarkson is letting her a$$ grow big enough to fill a widescreen TV? I know she puts weight on and takes it off, but never loses from her backside. That part only grows and grows. Just because I have a 16:9 screen doesn't mean she needs to test it on close ups.

What a great week of football we've had so far (Michigan excepted, damn you Lloyd Carr). And was it just me, or was WILX-DT1 looking very crisp Thursday night, kind of like they quintuple-checked every thing to make sure the HD telecast looked about as well as you can make a 41-10 game look technically?

Oh, and why is it that Kelly Clarkson is letting her a$$ grow big enough to fill a widescreen TV? I know she puts weight on and takes it off, but never loses from her backside. That part only grows and grows. Just because I have a 16:9 screen doesn't mean she needs to test it on close ups.

I was watching via Comcast and switched to the NFL Network for the pregame show because NBC was very blocky and soft. NFL Network was much crisper. Once the game started, WILX looked better, but still had blocking during moving graphics and action shots. Worst was zooming in on a moving player

I was watching via Comcast and switched to the NFL Network for the pregame show because NBC was very blocky and soft. NFL Network was much crisper. Once the game started, WILX looked better, but still had blocking during moving graphics and action shots. Worst was zooming in on a moving player

I was watching OTA. The blocking wasn't nearly as bad during the game as it was last year, but then again NBC was probably making their A+ effort for last night. In the pregame they kept bouncing back and forth from HD to SD depending on location so I wasn't expecting much there. I was hoping Kelly C or that hoochie who sang the national anthem would give us a wardrobe malfunction, but no.

Is BTN HD-only on E* or do they have an SD channel as well?

On E*, they have 5 SD channels setup, 439 BIG10 and 440-443 ALT10. The ALT10's will only be on when multiple games are being played. From the press releases and talking with fredfa, it appears that next week, E* will launch the full time HD channel for the BTN and will carry ALL HD events. This is the first carrier that has said they will carry all the HD feeds.

Even D* has only committed to one HD feed and all the SD feeds.

ok i really need your guys help please. i moved ino my new huse and installed my omni directional hd antenna on the roof, ran the coax down the chimney and into the hose to a cable outet. i hadd a 100 foot cable and only used about 60 feet of it, but didnt do anyting with it at the time and just let it sit in a pile in my basemet. today i finally got around and found my crimpers and cut the cable to length etc. so i do this and hok it up to the existing outlet using one of those female to female connectors and now i dont get any of the ion channels or abc 53 and 12.

i am really desperate to get my abc's back!! any help would be great! thanks.

Hey,

Thanks to all the help I've received on this forum. I decided about a week ago to bite the bullet and run with D* because I was just exhausted from fighting these people. The real reason, to my knowledge, that I can't get Comcast at Riverwalk Apartments was because DTN management never signed a contract with them and won't let them do business with me. Anyway, my D* setup is pretty nice, even though I have only a few HD stations. My installer didn't really set up anything on my HD box, but I got it mostly figured out. Out of curiosity, is an average of a 70 on my sat. test normal? Also, I get 3 error messages every time I try and set it up, but I don't (think) anything isn't working with my setup. My D* installer DID tell me (upon my inquiry about local stations in HD) not to buy an antenna because they were going to turn the local HDs on "any day now" and/or "at the beginning of the month". I bought the antenna that jefbal99 suggested to me, and it works great. I also told him to install the B-band box, because I'd heard of it online and didn't really know what it did, but I'm not getting any channels that aren't listed already here. Anyway, thanks for all the help, and If I get any new channels or such I'll make sure to post here right away.

Hey,

Thanks to all the help I've received on this forum. I decided about a week ago to bite the bullet and run with D* because I was just exhausted from fighting these people. The real reason, to my knowledge, that I can't get Comcast at Riverwalk Apartments was because DTN management never signed a contract with them and won't let them do business with me. Anyway, my D* setup is pretty nice, even though I have only a few HD stations. My installer didn't really set up anything on my HD box, but I got it mostly figured out. Out of curiosity, is an average of a 70 on my sat. test normal? Also, I get 3 error messages every time I try and set it up, but I don't (think) anything isn't working with my setup. My D* installer DID tell me (upon my inquiry about local stations in HD) not to buy an antenna because they were going to turn the local HDs on "any day now" and/or "at the beginning of the month". I bought the antenna that jefbal99 suggested to me, and it works great. I also told him to install the B-band box, because I'd heard of it online and didn't really know what it did, but I'm not getting any channels that aren't listed already here. Anyway, thanks for all the help, and If I get any new channels or such I'll make sure to post here right away.

You will need an antenna for the local digital channels because the Lansing-Jackson HD channels won't be available on D* until the Direct-11 satellite goes into service next spring (assuming successful launch and orbit.) And an average of 70 across the board is not good depending on which sat and transponder we're talking about. The primary sat should be well into the 80s if not 90s. The national HD channels off the new D-10 satellite should be activated within the next week.

You will need an antenna for the local digital channels because the Lansing-Jackson HD channels won't be available on D* until the Direct-11 satellite goes into service next spring (assuming successful launch and orbit.) And an average of 70 across the board is not good depending on which sat and transponder we're talking about. The primary sat should be well into the 80s if not 90s. The national HD channels off the new D-10 satellite should be activated within the next week.

I agree 100%, I would be calling D* and have them send the installer back out to tweak the setup and get a solid 90 on all the birds

ok i really need your guys help please. i moved ino my new huse and installed my omni directional hd antenna on the roof, ran the coax down the chimney and into the hose to a cable outet. i hadd a 100 foot cable and only used about 60 feet of it, but didnt do anyting with it at the time and just let it sit in a pile in my basemet. today i finally got around and found my crimpers and cut the cable to length etc. so i do this and hok it up to the existing outlet using one of those female to female connectors and now i dont get any of the ion channels or abc 53 and 12.

i am really desperate to get my abc's back!! any help would be great! thanks.

Do you have an amp in your setup?

This nice flickering issue is back on FSN Detroit HD for the Tigers game today. Didn't see it in last nights game, but it was there in the late college football game.

Also, seeing some pixalization when zooming in on the Seattle players.

I am not noticing any more audio drop outs on 23.1, but now there is a lip sync issue.:(

Do you have an amp in your setup?

Nope, no amp. But what i did do the other night was adjust where the antenna was pointing so that it was directly pointing at 53 (opposite direction from 12) to see if it would work any better, and it did, and i raised the stupid thing up farther on the mast to almost over the trees. So now i get 6,10,23,47,53 but i am really going to miss 12 if i cant figure out a way around it.

The only other thing i can think of is to get some high grade coax from somewhere and re-run the wire to the antenna, since the problem seems to be when i cut the coax to length and put one of those couplers on it.

I am not noticing any more audio drop outs on 23.1, but now there is a lip sync issue.:(

yeppers, our HD#1 encoder is sick. We're on #2 now, still seems to be maybe a frame off (better than two seconds, though) we'll keep beating on it.

Thanks for the note.

yeppers, our HD#1 encoder is sick. We're on #2 now, still seems to be maybe a frame off (better than two seconds, though) we'll keep beating on it.

Thanks for the note.

I noticed this over the weekend and forgot to post about it. I had this thought in my mind that an HD channel was screwy, but for the life of me, I couldn't remember what it was.

Thanks for restoring a bit of my sanity. :)

Nope, no amp. But what i did do the other night was adjust where the antenna was pointing so that it was directly pointing at 53 (opposite direction from 12) to see if it would work any better, and it did, and i raised the stupid thing up farther on the mast to almost over the trees. So now i get 6,10,23,47,53 but i am really going to miss 12 if i cant figure out a way around it.

The only other thing i can think of is to get some high grade coax from somewhere and re-run the wire to the antenna, since the problem seems to be when i cut the coax to length and put one of those couplers on it.

What king of coax are you using and what connectors/couplers?

How many couplers/connections do you have?

RG-6 cable solid copper core is the recommended type...

Almost content-free article [link now dead] in the Lansing State Journal about Comcast's Meridian/East Lansing infrastructure expansionThat was from April. Has anybody heard anything from Comcast about the network upgrade and when they might have the bandwidth for WSYM's FoxHD feed in East Lansing? (The reps on Comcast's phonebank were very polite but completely unable to answer.)

I really don't want to have to put up an aerial to watch the Lions lose in glorious 720p if Comcast is going to be adding it to the QAM lineup anyway. I have an e-mail in to WSYM asking the same thing.

(Following Murphy's law of signal propagation, my Pro Brand HD3150+ and Silver Sensor get a terrific picture on every OTA channel in the area...except WSYM-DT. I'm tempted to get a TiVoHD because I've used TiVo for several years and I understand the OTA ATSC tuner is outstanding.)

What king of coax are you using and what connectors/couplers?

How many couplers/connections do you have?

RG-6 cable solid copper core is the recommended type...

If i do recall correctly it is RG-6, but i am not positive. I must say that in my own defense i wasnt really thinking when i purchased it, and it was an impromptu Home Depot purchase of the cheapest coax...

I only have one coupler and its going to one outlet, no splitters etc.

I haven't heard anything on Network upgrades, however, my email to Steve Burke that got me in contact with Bill Connors is making its rounds. I have a VME from the Marketing dept in Southfield to call and chat about my concerns.

I have a feeling its going to be a waste of my time, but i'll see what info i can claw out of Mary.

I've been trying to figure out a way to lower my Cable bill and am really struggling. I'm looking at both D* and E*, however its a struggle. High Def is whats its all about in my house.

Can anybody with Comcast digital classic with an HD box give me a breakdown of what HD channels they receive? I have digital preferred and get all the HD, except the Premiums. However, Comcast.com now says that if you don't have digital preferred that you will only get the locals. I tried to work with a CSR, but as usual, they are worthless.

E* has some very nice setups and impressive hardware, however, two of my favorite channels are on their most expensive tier AT250. If I were to go with that, my bill would go down for 6 months, then be roughly the same or go up after the free HD period (keeping my comcast cable modem and $10 basic for the $15 HSI discount).

D*, I haven't really priced yet because I am waiting to see what happens with D10. There is speculation of problems with the bird now and I won't commit to a service for 18 months or more until I know what I will be receiving.

Also, with the DBS services, I will be able to receive season sports packages in HD, while Comcast refuses to add an HD channel for InDemand.

I was upbeat after talking with Bill Connors on that topic, but his follow up email was a downer.

# inDemand HD as you know is not a full time channel yet as it covers only a few events, games, fights etc per month so it currently does not have a launch date scheduled for your system yet however we are working out details to cover the limited HD events in VOD format as part of the regular VOD product offerings. We should have more updates on this as we get closer to the end of the year. We are adding some additional HD product to your lineup that we will be announcing soon ( we have to tell the actual programmers first) that will be great additions to our current HD offerings
# In regards to additional sports tier offerings we are adding CSTV soon along with three other channels (pending notification to the actual programming services) that will be nice adds. Eventually we will as we discussed make the same Sports Tier line-up's as we have in the rest of the state as we combine the distribution networks of all the systems so they are centrally fed from the same location. This will take a few more months so until then we will continue to have a couple of minor differences including the Tennis Channel and GolTV.

I replied once again asking about HD for NHL CI/NBA LP/MLB EI, but haven't received a reply yet.

Oh how true ala carte would make me a happy, happy boy.

If i do recall correctly it is RG-6, but i am not positive. I must say that in my own defense i wasnt really thinking when i purchased it, and it was an impromptu Home Depot purchase of the cheapest coax...

I only have one coupler and its going to one outlet, no splitters etc.

RG-6 solid core is very rarely the cheapest

If i do recall correctly it is RG-6, but i am not positive. I must say that in my own defense i wasnt really thinking when i purchased it, and it was an impromptu Home Depot purchase of the cheapest coax...

I only have one coupler and its going to one outlet, no splitters etc.

Check to make sure you don't have any insulating wires touching the core wire on any of your splices.

Does anyone with Comcast HDTV service have two converter boxes – either DVR or just STB? We have a DVR and added a STB last month. At the time, I was told the cost would be $7 per month. When we received this month’s bill, the $7 “HDTV Converter” charge was there along with another $6.95 monthly fee described as “Digital Outlet”.

While no one mentioned this second charge when I inquired about getting the box nor when I picked it up, the CSR I spoke with said I should have expected it. I’m supposed to receive a call back from a “supervisor” “soon”.

Has anyone else experienced this $6.95 charge? If so did you successfully fight it?

excerpt:
Has anybody heard anything from Comcast about the network upgrade and when they might have the bandwidth for WSYM's FoxHD feed in East Lansing? (The reps on Comcast's phonebank were very polite but completely unable to answer.)Oh, duh. Forgot the obvious source. WSYM, who are as anxious as me for this to get settled.

I exchanged e-mail with Lyle Schulze of WSYM, who has been in contact with Comcast engineering. No promises from Comcast, but the buildout is progressing and hopes are to have FoxHD on Comcast by year's-end. Too late for the Lions, but hopefully in time to see which terrorists have it in for LA this year...

Does anyone with Comcast HDTV service have two converter boxes – either DVR or just STB? We have a DVR and added a STB last month. At the time, I was told the cost would be $7 per month. When we received this month’s bill, the $7 “HDTV Converter” charge was there along with another $6.95 monthly fee described as “Digital Outlet”.

While no one mentioned this second charge when I inquired about getting the box nor when I picked it up, the CSR I spoke with said I should have expected it. I’m supposed to receive a call back from a “supervisor” “soon”.

Has anyone else experienced this $6.95 charge? If so did you successfully fight it?

Very normal and there is no way to fight it, its just one of those hidden fees :). You can have as many analog tvs hooked up as you want, but you want a digital box and there is an outlet fee.

Check to make sure you don't have any insulating wires touching the core wire on any of your splices.

I'll have to double check all of my splices, ill do that tonight. Thanks for the tip! That might very well be the problem, hopefully it is!

Ill check tonight to see what type of coax i have, i would have been able to post on the internet at home, but yet again as some of you might know my feud with Comcast. They were suppose to come Friday, then Sat. then yesterday, and guess what no one showed up, and was put on perma hold. So they "might" be coming tomorrow.

Does anyone with Comcast HDTV service have two converter boxes – either DVR or just STB? We have a DVR and added a STB last month. At the time, I was told the cost would be $7 per month. When we received this month’s bill, the $7 “HDTV Converter” charge was there along with another $6.95 monthly fee described as “Digital Outlet”.

While no one mentioned this second charge when I inquired about getting the box nor when I picked it up, the CSR I spoke with said I should have expected it. I’m supposed to receive a call back from a “supervisor” “soon”.

Has anyone else experienced this $6.95 charge? If so did you successfully fight it?

Well, I fought the $6.95 charge and won. I spoke to three CSRs on the phone over the past several days. All stated I should have expected both charges. Today, I drove down to the Comcast office on Miller Road to return the STB. The clerk I spoke to said the phone CSRs were crazy and immediately removed the recurring $6.95 charge from our account.

I left with the STB in my hand and now have it hooked up to our theater.

Well, I fought the $6.95 charge and won. I spoke to three CSRs on the phone over the past several days. All stated I should have expected both charges. Today, I drove down to the Comcast office on Miller Road to return the STB. The clerk I spoke to said the phone CSRs were crazy and immediately removed the recurring $6.95 charge from our account.

I left with the STB in my hand and now have it hooked up to our theater.

That sure seems like a whole lot of work for you to pay them

That sure seems like a whole lot of work for you to pay them

It was a frustrating experience but at least I have dedicated cable receivers for both our HDTVs now.

ABC is doing the Michigan/Notre Dame game in HD but WLAJ isn't running the feed. Anybody got a number for the WWMT control room?

ABC is doing the Michigan/Notre Dame game in HD but WLAJ isn't running the feed. Anybody got a number for the WWMT control room?

Its stupid, they switched it over after halftime if i do recall correctly. I got home from the State game, and turned on the Michigan game hoping to see Michigan get its butt kicked again in HD but NOOO, it wasnt! So mad, at both things! hahahah.

ABC is doing the Michigan/Notre Dame game in HD but WLAJ isn't running the feed. Anybody got a number for the WWMT control room?

You have to call WWMT newsline and ask them because they do the master control for WLAJ out of K'zoo.

You have to call WWMT newsline and ask them because they do the master control for WLAJ out of K'zoo.I just got an email back from WWMT programming replying to my "Hey! Throw the switch!" emails from Saturday. They tell me that, "ABC does not broadcast every college football game in HD. The primetime games on Saturday nights are in HD, but only a few daytime games are in HD. We 'upconvert' ABC's signal to HD at the local level." (No response from Jim Steffey, WWMT's engineer.)

So, apparently I have bigger problems. Not only can't I read a TV schedule, I can't tell upconverted SD from HD and I completely imagined the "ESPN on ABC" logo and the ABCHD bug. Time to go see the ophthalmologist.

I just got an email back from WWMT programming replying to my "Hey! Throw the switch!" emails from Saturday. They tell me that, "ABC does not broadcast every college football game in HD. The primetime games on Saturday nights are in HD, but only a few daytime games are in HD. We 'upconvert' ABC's signal to HD at the local level." (No response from Jim Steffey, WWMT's engineer.)

So, apparently I have bigger problems. Not only can't I read a TV schedule, I can't tell upconverted SD from HD and I completely imagined the "ESPN on ABC" logo and the ABCHD bug. Time to go see the ophthalmologist.

Yeah, they will always give you a fluff reply a few days later, emails on weekends won't get touched. Have to make the call to get anything done immediately.

Noticed a new digital channel yesterday, 189 GMC, i think was the label. Its a Christian music channel. Odd placement, figured it should be lower with the music channels or up with the church channels

Hi, I was hoping you fine gents could help me with a problem. I've got my trusty 19in Dell LCD that I wanted to hook up to my comcast HD box using the DVI output. Unfortunately, I was hit by the plague that is HDCP. My monitor was born before HDCP came out, so it won't work for longer than 3 seconds.

Alternatively, I tried hooking the box up to my pc with a firewire cable and it worked...for just ESPN2HD and the local channels. Everything else was 5C encrypted.

So my question is this: will I have any luck asking Comcast to disable 5C on the other HD channels or should I just pop the extra 200 bucks on an HDCP compliant monitor?

Hi, I was hoping you fine gents could help me with a problem. I've got my trusty 19in Dell LCD that I wanted to hook up to my comcast HD box using the DVI output. Unfortunately, I was hit by the plague that is HDCP. My monitor was born before HDCP came out, so it won't work for longer than 3 seconds.

Alternatively, I tried hooking the box up to my pc with a firewire cable and it worked...for just ESPN2HD and the local channels. Everything else was 5C encrypted.

So my question is this: will I have any luck asking Comcast to disable 5C on the other HD channels or should I just pop the extra 200 bucks on an HDCP compliant monitor?

sounds like you are SOL, does your monitor have Component inputs?

sounds like you are SOL, does your monitor have Component inputs?

I agree with Jeff, sounds like you need a more up to date monitor

Ok, so the comcast guy comes out today and checks out my box and says "we don't support DVI connections, if you go back to the office on Miller and get a box with HDMI it should work.

Lo and behold, it gives me the same problem. Thing is, the box says that HDCP is disabled. What else could be causing the problem?

Ok, so the comcast guy comes out today and checks out my box and says "we don't support DVI connections, if you go back to the office on Miller and get a box with HDMI it should work.

Lo and behold, it gives me the same problem. Thing is, the box says that HDCP is disabled. What else could be causing the problem?

What box do you have? I don't believe that HDCP is disabled on any of the comcast boxes when using DVI or HDMI.

What inputs does your monitor have?

Swapped a motorola dct6200 for a dch3200. The port status menu said hdcp was disabled.

When i had my Comcast HD box i had it hooked up for a little while to my Dell 2405FPW, and to tell you the truth i think it kind of looked like crap, no where near as nice a picture as my LCD HDTV (yes i know the difference in resolution between 1333 x 768 and 1920 x 1200), what i would do is get an HD tv card for your computer, but thats just me. hahah

I'll look for an affordable Widescreen LCD monitor with 2-5ms response time and DVI-HDCP. I'm in no situation to be going all on an HDTV just yet, but I can at least spare 250.

WLAJ forgot to go to HD for the Michigan game again.

Just put a different antenna on my roof (to get a better signal on WKAR to record "The War") and did a rescan on my receiver, found WKAR-DT is now running two more sub channels (23-3, and 23-4). I also found WLLA from Kazoo/B.C. on digital channel 45. WLLA maps to channels 64-1 and 64-2, nice strong signal here near Potterville.

Is forgetting to turn on the HD feed a problem with WLAJ?

I live in Howell near Pickney zip 48843. I was hoping to get away with a cm 4221 or at most cm 4882. I am looking for an antenna to use in my attic or indoors for Detroit/Lansing hd/dtv. I currently am using a Radio Shack 15-1892 with so so results. I would like a more stable picture. I don't want to invest a lot of $$$ because when my Dish contract is up I am changing to Directv w/hd. I refuse to pay Dish's upgrade prices and new contract. Most store antennas are junk and if I order one off the internet I don't want to try to return it.

Did anyone watch the State game on NBC? I was really shocked at how bad the camera/editing was on NBC, i guess i am spoiled by ESPN on ABC. The announcers were really boring too, and the guy at half time talked for 2 minutes about NCAA (even though he said "Now lets see some NFL highlights from today") and then the rest of the time NFL stuff.

Another thing was this morning i was watching WLAJ and saw an add for "ABC 3" what is going on, are they re-branding ABC 53?

WLAJ forgot to go to HD for the Michigan game again.

I called them during pregame and got the switch flipped. came back from commercial and it was fine. I left the house right after that so i didn't get to watch the game.

If you guys see a station not showing an HD feed, you need to call their news line and ask for MasterControl.

WLAJ is done by WWMT's K'zoo office
WILX, WLNS just call their newsline.

WSYM, I'm not sure because their newsline goes to WILX's office, but with FOX's splicer system, they shouldn't have any feed issues as I believe the network controls just about everything.

Edit in: I added some info for calling news lines and asking for master control to get HD feeds turned on. Please be active and make a call if you see programming issues.

Another thing was this morning i was watching WLAJ and saw an add for "ABC 3" what is going on, are they re-branding ABC 53?

Sure it wast for WWMT CBS 3 in West Michigan, they are sister stations?

Sure it wast for WWMT CBS 3 in West Michigan, they are sister stations?

WLAJ's new brand is ABC-3. Premiering tonight:
ABC-3 news at 6
ABC-3 News at 10 on The CW
ABC-3 News at 11

The "3" is the same logic that WOTV uses for their "4" I guess they think that viewers attach more credibility to single digit VHF style numbers.

WLAJ's new brand is ABC-3. Premiering tonight:
ABC-3 news at 6
ABC-3 News at 10 on The CW
ABC-3 News at 11

The "3" is the same logic that WOTV uses for their "4" I guess they think that viewers attach more credibility to single digit VHF style numbers.

Well, thanks for that info.

Apparently WLAJ thinks we are morons, but whatever.

The Wikipedia article notes that one reason for the change is that most cable providers have them on channel 3. They are bringing in someone from WDIV in Detroit and WWMT in GR to shake up operations. Normal newscast at 10PM on The CW, etc.

WLAJ's new brand is ABC-3. Premiering tonight:
ABC-3 news at 6
ABC-3 News at 10 on The CW
ABC-3 News at 11

The "3" is the same logic that WOTV uses for their "4" I guess they think that viewers attach more credibility to single digit VHF style numbers.Cable channel 3 in the Comcast Lansing & East Lansing lineups?

They would have been Channel 51 in a couple of years anyway...

Cable channel 3 in the Comcast Lansing & East Lansing lineups?

They would have been Channel 51 in a couple of years anyway...

Comcast channel 3 in Jackson as well

Ok, so I got an HDCP monitor, now every 3 seconds the screen goes snowy. Is this more encryption or what?

Noticed last night WKAR-DT is now able to insert weather "craws" on the HD channel and the other three program streams. First time I have seen that on the HD channel. I also noticed that that the audio and video were not in sync last night on WKAR-DT, not sure if that was a PBS issue or just local to WKAR-DT. Sounds like that has been a issue with PBS this week with "The War". From my recordings of "The War" this past week, it looks like the HD stream is using between 8 and 9 Mbytes/sec. of the data stream. Looked OK on my "big" 15 inch HDTV. "The War" parts 2 and 3 are both small enough to fit in .MPG format or as a HD-DVD on a double layer DVD. I don't think the first show (2.5 hours long) will fit on a single DVD. When I get a chance I will check out one of my HD-DVD formated disks on my daughters HDTV and see how good it looks on a bigger screen.

I added the new D* nationals to the HD list in the first post

Noticed last night WKAR-DT is now able to insert weather "craws" on the HD channel and the other three program streams. First time I have seen that on the HD channel.

I don't watch enough WKAR-DT, but this is very exciting for our market. As I previously noted, WILX can do their bug in the national HD feeds and I'm guessing that WKAR could do that for quite sometime.

Hopefully we'll see more upgrades this fall and spring for Weather alerts and other crawls so that we no longer get dropped into SD by local info.

I added the new D* nationals to the HD list in the first post



I don't watch enough WKAR-DT, but this is very exciting for our market. As I previously noted, WILX can do their bug in the national HD feeds and I'm guessing that WKAR could do that for quite sometime.

Hopefully we'll see more upgrades this fall and spring for Weather alerts and other crawls so that we no longer get dropped into SD by local info.

I as well noticed that, and was also glad to see CBS only showing the weather bug during commercials. hahah. I was though having some signal issues with WLAJ last night, stupid rain!

Noticed last night WKAR-DT is now able to insert weather "craws" on the HD channel and the other three program streams. First time I have seen that on the HD channel. I also noticed that that the audio and video were not in sync last night on WKAR-DT, not sure if that was a PBS issue or just local to WKAR-DT. Sounds like that has been a issue with PBS this week with "The War". From my recordings of "The War" this past week, it looks like the HD stream is using between 8 and 9 Mbytes/sec. of the data stream.

Apology first:

PBS had problems with lip sync Sunday and Monday, they postulate that the problem was related to the preponderance of noisy up-converted 16mm film causing the encoder to go into saturation. They have inserted a noise reducer into the path, early reports are that the Tuesday feed nationally was ok.

However, WKAR is having problems with both of our HD encoders. We've installed new software into our #1 unit, which promptly broke it. We are continuing to work with our vendor and the encoder manufacturer to resolve the issue.

Crawl: We've been crawling EAS and weather alerts on the 23.1 since March, 2004.

Data rates: We employ statistical multiplexing, most of the time, the HD rate will vary from 7M to 12M depending on content and the demands of the other streams. The HD encoder has the highest priority.

Gary,

Thanks for the update. Sounds like the programs I record will all have different sizes for the same length of time with your statistical multiplexer changing the data rate all the time. I was very surprised to see I could fit 2 hours on one DVD.

D* has started activating channels on the D10 bird. BTN was one of the first HD channels turned on. D* definitely took care of the sports fans with the first wave of new channels. I didn't get home in time tonight to see much in the way of live sports on the new channels, but trust me, I plan on doing a lot of testing this weekend.

D* has started activating channels on the D10 bird. BTN was one of the first HD channels turned on. D* definitely took care of the sports fans with the first wave of new channels. I didn't get home in time tonight to see much in the way of live sports on the new channels, but trust me, I plan on doing a lot of testing this weekend.

hah, thats funny. I was just about to ask if the Big Ten Network is in HD anywhere. Im watching it right now in the Union (on MSU's campus) and am "thinking" about D*. But alas i have no money.... haha

D* has started activating channels on the D10 bird. BTN was one of the first HD channels turned on. D* definitely took care of the sports fans with the first wave of new channels. I didn't get home in time tonight to see much in the way of live sports on the new channels, but trust me, I plan on doing a lot of testing this weekend.

1st post was updated yesterday morning with channel numbers, satellite location, compression used, etc.

Keep an eye on the BTN alternates this weekend when they have multiple games, let me know if those are showing HD as well.

BTN schedule for HD
CFB Indiana Hoosiers vs Iowa Hawkeyes 12:00 PM BigTen
CFB Penn State Nittany Lions vs Illinois Fighting Illini 12:00 PM BigTen
CFB Michigan Wolverines vs Northwestern Wildcats 12:00 PM BigTen

Hi,

Sorry, I've been busy with school for the last couple weeks and forgot all about my D* signal problems and such. Anyway, I see that you have new channels listed on the HD lineup for D*, and when I go to those channels I'm only getting the analog feed, on channels like BTN 220 and Discovery 278. Let me give you some numbers, and if you could, tell me if its serious complaint time.

I went outside and looked at the sats. on my apartment wall. I have a Oval 3LNBs as the main dish (Installer had it setup as 5LNB) and a WorldDirect dish that looks to be at 95 degrees (It has 2LNB, if thats what the little knobs are that point towards the dish). When I put this information in, for the first time ever, I got an errorless setup. I have the newest DirecTV HD box w/o DVR (H20) with the B-Band box, to my knowledge. My signal strengths are:

Sat 101 A Transponder 1 - 71%
Sat 119 B Transponder 22 - 65%
Sat 110 C Transponder 8 - 57%
Sat 95 (Net-1) Trans 1 - 40%

So, after setting up my correct equipment, my signal strength went nowhere, and I have no new channels. I also think my OVA HD looks better than my ESPN HD, for example. Is it serious complaint time, and when they tell me that my signal is weak because I'm an apartment with one dish for 24 rooms (I think this will happen) what do I tell them? And, am I overreacting about the new channels or should I have them right now? lastly, should I complain to my installer Directech MDU, or DirecTV directly? As always, without this forum, I would be lost. I'll try to keep up this time.

Justin

Edit: I just realized at class that my sat. setup never mentions a 103 degree sat. , when I go home, I'm going to check that out.

Edit2: I just realized that I need the 5LNB dish to decode MPEG4 signals, so this would explain my problem, unless the worlddirect 2LNB dish + my 3LNB dish = 5LNB dish. When I go home, I'm going to try and get a 103 degree signal, but I don't think I've ever got it without error. Why would direcTV install the 3LNB dish on a brand new apartment complex 2 months ago?

Sounds like your installer screwed the pooch, call back and complain, get them out there with a 5lnb

Called back, complained, they told me I was wrong, that I had a 5LNB when the sat. outside my apartment only has 3 prongs and comes up "Not Installed" under 103 degrees. The only other possibility is that my "World Direct" sat. is my 103 degree, but I doubt that. They told me they talked to the head tech and its a 5LNB, that they couldn't send anyone out for a week because the channels should come on by then, that I'm not a trained professional, etc. Basically, I was told I don't know the difference between a 3LNB Oval and a Circle 5LNB, and that I have to wait a week before I can call them back and complain about the same problem, at which time, I will be worthy enough for a tech to come out and look at (not fix) my problem. Thanks for all the help on the forum.

Justin

Called back, complained, they told me I was wrong, that I had a 5LNB when the sat. outside my apartment only has 3 prongs and comes up "Not Installed" under 103 degrees. The only other possibility is that my "World Direct" sat. is my 103 degree, but I doubt that. They told me they talked to the head tech and its a 5LNB, that they couldn't send anyone out for a week because the channels should come on by then, that I'm not a trained professional, etc. Basically, I was told I don't know the difference between a 3LNB Oval and a Circle 5LNB, and that I have to wait a week before I can call them back and complain about the same problem, at which time, I will be worthy enough for a tech to come out and look at (not fix) my problem. Thanks for all the help on the forum.

Justin

If you don't have the 20 X 35 dish with either the 3 + 2 LNB sidecar, or the 5 LNB slimline dish, and an H20 receiver or newer, you won't see the new HD channels. Only the newer D* receivers are capable of showing the new mpeg4 channels off the D10 bird. You also have to have the B-band converter feeding into your receiver.

1st post was updated yesterday morning with channel numbers, satellite location, compression used, etc.

Keep an eye on the BTN alternates this weekend when they have multiple games, let me know if those are showing HD as well.

BTN schedule for HD
CFB Indiana Hoosiers vs Iowa Hawkeyes 12:00 PM BigTen
CFB Penn State Nittany Lions vs Illinois Fighting Illini 12:00 PM BigTen
CFB Michigan Wolverines vs Northwestern Wildcats 12:00 PM BigTen

Last word I had was D* would only be carrying the BTN primary game in HD, all others would be SD only. I do plan to be parked in front of the tube to see for myself this week. :)

Called back, complained, they told me I was wrong, that I had a 5LNB when the sat. outside my apartment only has 3 prongs and comes up "Not Installed" under 103 degrees. The only other possibility is that my "World Direct" sat. is my 103 degree, but I doubt that. They told me they talked to the head tech and its a 5LNB, that they couldn't send anyone out for a week because the channels should come on by then, that I'm not a trained professional, etc. Basically, I was told I don't know the difference between a 3LNB Oval and a Circle 5LNB, and that I have to wait a week before I can call them back and complain about the same problem, at which time, I will be worthy enough for a tech to come out and look at (not fix) my problem. Thanks for all the help on the forum.

Justin

Take a pic of your dish and post it here, we can tell ya what it is

Edit in:

Better yet, pick from the list of pictures below:

1.
http://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/AU9-S_zoom.gif
2.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvh20.jpg
3.
http://www.tvauthority.com/itemimages/1820BXLNB.jpg

Take a pic of your dish and post it here, we can tell ya what it is

Edit in:

Better yet, pick from the list of pictures below:

<snipped>]

I've got #2. Did I win?

I've got #2. Did I win?

That would be a 5lnb side car and along with an H20, H21, HR20, or HR21; you'de get the new HD :)

So yup, you win some new HD channels ;)

That would be a 5lnb side car and along with an H20, H21, HR20, or HR21; you'de get the new HD :)

So yup, you win some new HD channels ;)

Oh my gosh, I WON! (grabs remote, jumps on couch) Look at these HD channels! They're beautiful! Hi, Mom! (waves as camera pans back to Jeff, who is wearing a cheesy game-show host's suit waiting for the next contestant)

Oh my gosh, I WON! (grabs remote, jumps on couch) Look at these HD channels! They're beautiful! Hi, Mom! (waves as camera pans back to Jeff, who is wearing a cheesy game-show host's suit waiting for the next contestant)

At least you didn't say the vanna white dress

D* is only showing the Big Ten Network's primary football game in HD. All the other games are SD only. Still beats Comcrap.

D* is only showing the Big Ten Network's primary football game in HD. All the other games are SD only. Still beats Comcrap.

and E* beats them both ;)

Yeah, I figured out yesterday I have the slimline and I am indeed the idiot. But, I'm still waiting to get my new channels, my Transponders for 103 degrees all come up 0 at the moment. I should still have them come out and boost my signals to my HD box. Thanks.

Hey, I just flipped to WLAJ for the MSU game and they actually have the HD signal up and running, I don't have to call them for once.

Its just shocking ;)

Sparty On!

Yeah, I figured out yesterday I have the slimline and I am indeed the idiot. But, I'm still waiting to get my new channels, my Transponders for 103 degrees all come up 0 at the moment. I should still have them come out and boost my signals to my HD box. Thanks.

OK, you have the slimline dish, but do you have an H20, HR20, H21 or HR21 receiver? And if you have one of those receivers, do you have the B-band converter hooked up in the back?

There are not many better ways to spend a Saturday than how I did it today. Other than having to rise early for an important meeting, once I returned home and took my appointed position on the couch it was a full day of eating, drinking and watching football from noon to past 1 am. And what a bunch of games to watch, eh? They didn't all turn out well, but from a TV-watching standpoint what a great day it was. Nearly every major football game you'd want to watch was in HD and I didn't even mind watching the Michigan-Northwestern game in SD.

I was at football games the first four Saturdays of the season, so this was my first full day of college football watching at home for the fall. I forgot how much work it is to sit on your a$$ watching a proper day of college football HDTV.

Hey, A lot of the discussion in this forum is way over my head, but its the only place I know of to get solid avs help. I just moved to downtown lansing and set up my antenna for OTA HD channels. I'm picking up all the major networks perfect except for Fox 47.1. The strange thing is that I pick that channel up the best in analog. Any suggestions would be great.

FatRabbit342,

Just try turning your antenna, you should be able to get them. They are south of town near WILX-DT and WLAJ-DT.

I'm sorry if this has been answered earlier, but it's difficult to find in 16 pages of threads.

I recently got a HD set and hooked it up to my cable (Comcast expanded basic). I now can see additional channels (NBC HD, ABC HD, CBS HD, and PBS HD). I also had G4 for a couple weeks, but that has since disappeared. I saw a commercial that said that Fox 47 has HD broadcasting on 47.1 (which I assume to be the OTA channel). Does anyone know what channel Comcast is broadcasting it on? I ABC and CBS are on 12.x, and NBC and PBS are on 73.x. My TV's autoscan hasn't found the FOX HD channel yet either.

TBS=HD appears to be randomly popping into channel guides on East Coast Comcast systems. Anybody seeing an unexpected addition to the HD line up for the tie breaking game tonight?

I'm sorry if this has been answered earlier, but it's difficult to find in 16 pages of threads.

I recently got a HD set and hooked it up to my cable (Comcast expanded basic). I now can see additional channels (NBC HD, ABC HD, CBS HD, and PBS HD). I also had G4 for a couple weeks, but that has since disappeared. I saw a commercial that said that Fox 47 has HD broadcasting on 47.1 (which I assume to be the OTA channel). Does anyone know what channel Comcast is broadcasting it on? I ABC and CBS are on 12.x, and NBC and PBS are on 73.x. My TV's autoscan hasn't found the FOX HD channel yet either.

Where are you located at?

Comcast's East Lansing network is supposedly undergoing upgrades and WSYM is not currently available in EL.

The first post has the Comcast rundown for the DMA, but it notes that not all channels are available in all areas.

Where are you located at?

Comcast's East Lansing network is supposedly undergoing upgrades and WSYM is not currently available in EL.

The first post has the Comcast rundown for the DMA, but it notes that not all channels are available in all areas.

I'm in Okemos.

I'm in Okemos.

I believe that you are currently SOL...

sorry

I'm in Okemos.

I can confirm Fox isn't available on Comcast EL. I'm in Okemos and I can actually pull in more Digital channels with an antenna than are clear QAM on Comcast. I decided to spend that extra money Comcast wanted for the HD package on a Silver Sensor antenna instead. Until they expand the offerings in EL, I just don't think it is worth the extra money for EPSN/2, onDemand and a few throwaway channels.

FatRabbit342,

Just try turning your antenna, you should be able to get them. They are south of town near WILX-DT and WLAJ-DT.

I'll try turning it and scanning for digital channels again. Antennaweb.org says the compass orientation is 201 degrees so I'll try and check that out. Has anyone else had a problem getting fox in OTA? Thanks for the response

OK, you have the slimline dish, but do you have an H20, HR20, H21 or HR21 receiver? And if you have one of those receivers, do you have the B-band converter hooked up in the back?

Yeah, I have the H20, the Slimline 5LNB, and the B-Band converter, and I'm getting 16 Transponders from 103 degrees, but they all come up zero. They told me on the phone that I just have to wait. I'm getting ESPNHD on 73 and 206, but the signal doesn't look any difference from the other, and I get all the channels I already had on the 200 level in HD, but none of the new ones. My signal strength in general is still pretty weak. I guess I'll just keep waiting, because I'm not "allowed" to complain again about this until next week, according to my installer. Thanks.

Yeah, I have the H20, the Slimline 5LNB, and the B-Band converter, and I'm getting 16 Transponders from 103 degrees, but they all come up zero. They told me on the phone that I just have to wait. I'm getting ESPNHD on 73 and 206, but the signal doesn't look any difference from the other, and I get all the channels I already had on the 200 level in HD, but none of the new ones. My signal strength in general is still pretty weak. I guess I'll just keep waiting, because I'm not "allowed" to complain again about this until next week, according to my installer. Thanks.

I'd check out dbstalk and read up on adjusting your dish manually. they have a video and manual on the slimline

I'd check out dbstalk and read up on adjusting your dish manually. they have a video and manual on the slimline

They threatened me not to touch the Slimline 5LNB because its DirecTV property and its about 3 stories up on my apartment building, but I'll check that out.

Comcast's East Lansing network is supposedly undergoing upgrades and WSYM is not currently available in EL.I had Comcast out yesterday to slap a couple of Cablecards into my TiVoHD. The tech and the CSR who took the service order were aware of the East Lansing buildout and were pretty confident that it will be up by the end of the year. Comcast sounds motivated - apparently the economics on Digital Voice are such that they put a fair amount of resources behind it.

Great technician, btw. He tested the line at the TV, found the signal level a bit low and knew that TiVos tend to be fussy about their signal. Rather than tell me that the wires weren't good enough, he climbed the pole, ripped out an old (HBO/Showtime) analog filter for a few more dB and tried the install. Works fine!

Why am I quoting jefbal99 on the WSYM-HD noncarriage? The TiVoHD does both QAM and ATSC, so it's perfect for the East Lansing/Meridian situation. I have a Silver Sensor on top of the TV aimed just to get the WSYM signal. Since there's just the one HD channel missing from the Comcast East Lansing lineup, I can fill in the hole with the OTA signal and not worry about rotating the antenna.

I had Comcast out yesterday to slap a couple of Cablecards into my TiVoHD. The tech and the CSR who took the service order were aware of the East Lansing buildout and were pretty confident that it will be up by the end of the year. Comcast sounds motivated - apparently the economics on Digital Voice are such that they put a fair amount of resources behind it.

Great technician, btw. He tested the line at the TV, found the signal level a bit low and knew that TiVos tend to be fussy about their signal. Rather than tell me that the wires weren't good enough, he climbed the pole, ripped out an old (HBO/Showtime) analog filter for a few more dB and tried the install. Works fine!

Why am I quoting jefbal99 on the WSYM-HD noncarriage? The TiVoHD does both QAM and ATSC, so it's perfect for the East Lansing/Meridian situation. I have a Silver Sensor on top of the TV aimed just to get the WSYM signal. Since there's just the one HD channel missing from the Comcast East Lansing lineup, I can fill in the hole with the OTA signal and not worry about rotating the antenna.

Thats awesome, sounds like you got a good tech, did you get a name by chance?

Did they bring out two standard cable cards or have the TivoHDs been updated for M-Card support yet?

I don't know if Comcast in Lansing is offering M-cards, but my DCH3416 has an M-Card in it.

If they support the M-cards, will save ya on a rental fee for the 2nd S-Card

Thats awesome, sounds like you got a good tech, did you get a name by chance?

Did they bring out two standard cable cards or have the TivoHDs been updated for M-Card support yet?

I don't know if Comcast in Lansing is offering M-cards, but my DCH3416 has an M-Card in it.

If they support the M-cards, will save ya on a rental fee for the 2nd S-CardI did get the name and ID number and I'll post it later. According to the tech, there are also good and bad CSRs and I got lucky there, too. (Got a guy who understood that the key to a TiVo install is to do the cards one at a time.)

I got two Motorola S-cards. The TiVoHD supports M-cards out of the box, while TiVo's original, prettier Series 3 will need a promised software update. Comcast East Lansing didn't have any M-cards handy.

Any word on when Comcast Lansing (not EL) customers will get the newly announced TBS-HD, and CNN-HD channels added to our lineup?

Yeah, I have the H20, the Slimline 5LNB, and the B-Band converter, and I'm getting 16 Transponders from 103 degrees, but they all come up zero. They told me on the phone that I just have to wait. I'm getting ESPNHD on 73 and 206, but the signal doesn't look any difference from the other, and I get all the channels I already had on the 200 level in HD, but none of the new ones. My signal strength in general is still pretty weak. I guess I'll just keep waiting, because I'm not "allowed" to complain again about this until next week, according to my installer. Thanks.

Sounds like you got an installer who wanted to do the job fast but got it only half-a$$ed.

Just for sh!ts and gr!ns, try doing a reset on your H20 by pushing the red button in the front access card compartment.

Any word on when Comcast Lansing (not EL) customers will get the newly announced TBS-HD, and CNN-HD channels added to our lineup?

Ken H is being his usual crypticself in the Detroit thread. I would look for TBS soon and the rest right behind them, however, that is just my guess.

Has anyone else been having picture break up and sound cutting in and out on the Comcast On Demand service? I've been getting this lately, but not all the time. It doesn't seem to affect any of the other channels, HD or SD.

Alright, so i have finally had it with figuring out why i cannot get a decent signal lock on WLAJ. Today i ordered some RG-11 cable (50 foot) that is going from my DB8 multi-directional antenna, into the house and i am debating on using a power amp splitter or just going directly to my wall jack.

The reason i am debating on the splitter is because i would like to run the antenna wire to two jacks in the house, and am worried about signal loss with splicing into the RG-11 cable.

Anywho i am also getting a higher mast for my antenna to get above my damn pine trees. So hopefully when my new cable comes in, ill be able to get a decent signal lock on WLAJ and finally be able to get ABC 12 back.

For any of you who are wondering in in Haslett on Creekwood Lane. I "should" be able to get WLAJ fine, and before i started messing around with my cable i was able to get ABC 12 just fine, so ill let you all know my findings.

And if anyone has any advice or anything like that please let me know, i would be much appriciated.

I have Comcast in EL and have been using a HDHomeRun to pull in the QAM until the other night when CBS and NBC both started returning "No Signal" and WKAR's signal was so weak I couldn't get more than a few frames. The Comcast HD box pulls in all three just fine, so I guess that's the end of my HD recording over QAM.

Speaking of this apparent "build up" for EL. I had a tech tell me in March that they would have the system upgraded by beginning of summer, so I wouldn't expect anything by the end of the year. I occasionally send emails to Comcast asking what the deal is and they actually told me recently they weren't able to negotiate carrier rights for EL for any HD channels other than what we already had. I asked if that applied to VersusHD and they said "yes" so I asked why they would have to negotiate for carrier rights to a channel they own.

They don't respond to my emails anymore.

limiter, CSRs are morons. They have national carriage agreements and when the bandwidth is available, the channels will be available.

As for losing the QAMs, try a rescan and see if the channels were moved to different frequencies, if not, call the 800 number. The first person you speak with won't be able to do a damn thing for you, request a supervisor or tech supervisor. They are usually the only ones that have a clue about QAM.

Prolly gonna be a truck roll to check signal levels, unless they have multiple complaints in your area.