Lansing, MI - HDTV [Text View] - Page 6

theantennaman

08-12-08, 08:19 AM

theantennaman

08-12-08, 09:44 AM

Damn, all of last weeks posts are gone....

Antennaman, if you can recreate your antenna post, i'd love to add it to the first post of the thread.

Also, I've completed all of the updates to the first post (i think). I'll be updating it on thursday after the planned D* reorg and expansion.

A proper installation of any omni-directional or directional antenna should utilize the following guidelines:

Height is everything. I normally install all antennas at least 10’-12’ above the highest roof line. 30’, 40’ & 50’ towers are great. I have put “saucers” or directionals on 30’ yard light poles and old wind mills.

Always try to position the antenna so that trees, buildings and other obstructions are out of line with the signals you are trying to receive.

Keep the coax run as short as possible. Only use RG-6u as opposed to RG-59u. In the distribution primer you will see why this is important given the losses involved at high UHF freqs up to 750Mhz. Coax should be secured every 24”-36” with proper fastening devices. I use tape or ty-wraps down the TV antenna mast or tower and 360 style clamps with a ¼”head using a cordless drill to install. I never use a clamp that has to be installed with a hammer—if you miss, the coax gets flattened, digital does not like coax that is flattened or bent in an acute angle—smooth bends in the coax only.

Use high quality one piece F-connectors (compression type) with good mechanical specs at high freqs and under digital conditions. If you cannot properly apply a good F-fitting, buy cables with good fittings already attached—this means every fitting in the network—one cheap jumper with push on connectors or bad integrity will drive you crazy. Many jumpers that come with the DTV converters VCR’s and other devices have push on connectors and are of very poor quality. I never use a push connector and every F-fitting should be tightened with a 7/16th wrench---if torqued properly, you should not be able to remove F-connecter with your fingers. You must be very careful tightening connectors on devices like the TV, VCR, DVD player, DTV converter as the F-81 connector on the device may turn if too much pressure is applied and the internal connector may break—finger tight, then a little torque with the wrench. Remember, digital signals do not like loose connectors!

Digital signals also do not like water or moisture. Every connection and device outside or in wet areas need to be impervious to water—completely water-proofed and sealed. If you are using 300ohm to 75 ohm matching transformers, splices, grounding blocks or pre=amps, make sure no moisture can compromise the connection or the device outside. I use a special pliable putty type sealer on every connector that 100% covers the whole connector. There are weather boots and other sealers that may work well also.

All outdoor antenna installations should be grounded (does not affect the signal integrity, but is code & might help save a device or protect from fire or electrocution) I always install a coated #10 copper grounding wire to the antenna mast, tower or tripod and bond it to the electrical mast, grounding wire or electrode. I also install a ground-block (F-81 with mounting holes & grounding lug) to ground the coax shield, this should be done at the lowest possible point before the coax enters the building.

Keep splits to a minimum. Only use a splitter that feeds the quantity of devices you are actively sending signal to. Use good quality splitters with an upper band-pass of 1Ghz (1000Mhz) If you are feeding two TVs, use a 2-way splitter, 3 TVs, a 3 way splitter etc. Un-terminated splitter ports can cause reflections that can disrupt digital signals. If you do have an open port, install a 75ohm terminator until you can replace the splitter. Make sure you keep your distribution network balanced. All cables should be home run to a central point and managed from one location if possible. If you have un-active cables in the building, mark them and only install them when they need to become active and terminated with a device like a TV.

If you are hooking your antenna lead to an existing network, try to inspect every inch of this network to make sure it has not been compromised with bad connections, unwanted splits or 300ohm flat lead.

If installing a pre-amp or post amp, make sure the power supply is installed in an area that is easy to get at. If installing a pre-amp, the power supply & power inserter should be installed before any splits, if this is not possible, a special splitter is necessary to pass power only to the antenna in port. I normally only use pre-amps when necessary to overcome the distribution losses and only use a pre-amp to overcome the cable & splitter loss and add a little additional gain for fringe signals. Remember, once you lose the digital info (the 1’s & 0’s) you cannot regain them---amplify early, overcome all combined losses to worst case leg of network.

Once you get to a device, utilize best interface with TV or between devices---HDMI, S-Video, Baseband cables etc. keep these interface cables short as possible, but leave enough slack to move and maintain equipment easily.

If installing a “saucer” antenna, optimize the signal on marginal channels by rotating the antenna until the desired channels are stable (most digital TVs or DTV converters have a simple signal meter feature) two people, two cell phones or FMRS radios make the job easier—one on roof, one at TV charting results. Note: there are also “saucer” antennas with a built-in rotor that has excellent gain and back side rejection—I use on for my primary digital TV.

Summary:
Get antenna as high as possible
Keep trees, buildings out of path between transmitter and antenna if possible
Use best antenna you can afford & best cables & passive devices-digital certified
Directional antenna with rotor with gain is best
Use pre-amp if necessary to overcome network losses
Keep moisture out of network
Tighten all connectors
Remember, most signals are or will be at Ultra High Frequencies and the distribution network cables and passive devices have very high insertion losses!---Digital info---once lost, it’s gone.
Migrate from RF to best available interface at each device whenever possible (TV, VCR, DVR, DVD, etc.)
Make diagram of your network for future reference.

Mike

SMWinnie

08-12-08, 10:14 AM

I'm in Okemos and having the same audio and video problems on Discovery HD and USA HD.+1; East Lansing

SMWinnie

08-12-08, 12:42 PM

I'm wondering whether I have a shot at getting WXMI out of Grand Rapids with an attic antenna.

Between Comcast and an OTA attic antenna, we're happy with our Lansing/Jackson OTA reception, so we aren't going to put up a roof antenna just for blacked-out Lions games.

I have a Silver Sensor and a Zenith 901 CECB handy. As a reality check, if I go up there and point the Silver Sensor west should I expect to learn whether it's worth buying a highly directional UHF antenna and a Jointenna?

(TV Fool says I'm 54 miles from the tower, -88dbi in the air, and would need to be 70' AGL to get LOS.)

wb8tgy

08-12-08, 02:14 PM

SMWinnie,

I don't know where you live, but I can get WXMI with a "silver sensor" antenna from my place a few miles NE of Potterville, but I live on a hill. Good luck.

maggiefan

08-12-08, 06:17 PM

Got the update today for the Comcast system in Lansing. The firmware is now 18.43. Yesterday is was still 18.34. From what I've read this should fix the no record light issue.

jefbal99

08-12-08, 08:13 PM

Great info Antenna Man, I'll add a link to those posts in the first post on thursday when I update it.

Thanks for the info on the WHTV transmitter, I'll update the image.

Good info on the Comcast channel frquencies, but they change very often, so I'm not posting it. I've also pulled the QAM listings because they are different for each area/head end.

Great to have the comcast channel number for BTN HD, I'll add it to the Comcast channel list.

heed316

08-12-08, 10:56 PM

Good info from comcast at http://www.comcast.com/michigan/

jefbal99

08-14-08, 08:48 AM

I've started the update process for the first post, including all channel additions to each carrier. I have removed the QAM section because they change to often and I don't have a QAM tuner to track the locals.

Outstanding updates needed:
Graphic showing the location of the WHTV transmitter
Contact info for WSYM Fox 47 Master Control (24 hr newsline goes to WILX)
Contact info for WKAR PBS 23 Master Control

If there is an E* sub on the forum, please validate all the info in the Dish Network section.

jb

pierceive

08-15-08, 08:31 AM

As promised by Comcast, the Big Ten Network HD just went live in Meridian. I have added it to my post listing HD channel frequencies.

DanMacMan

08-15-08, 08:36 AM

BTN is live here in Delta Township as well. Chs. 65, 255 and in HD on 256.

heed316

08-15-08, 11:46 AM

It's not live here in Brooklyn. The analog station is still showing the Hallmark Channel, the SD station is still showing Fox Business, and the HD channel says not available. Argh!

mathwhiz

08-15-08, 04:41 PM

johns560

08-15-08, 09:15 PM

Anyone know when HD locals are coming to Lansing on DirecTV?

JT01

08-15-08, 10:21 PM

Anyone know when HD locals are coming to Lansing on DirecTV?

I had posted a message on that subject that was lost when the forum was restored to August 1 after an outage. DirecTV launched a new satellite last March that is supposed to come online in September. I had hoped Lansing HD locals would arrive at that time, but D* just announced the new markets and Lansing is not on the list. That was also confirmed by Customer Service when I emailed them last week. Looks like we're SOL for a while longer - I'm thankful for my OTA antenna and HR20-700 DVR.

Jim

heed316

08-15-08, 10:37 PM

Correction - BTN went live in Meridian for those using analog or cable boxes. Those using CableCards don't get it yet. After the Olympics are done I'm going to raise a big fuss at Comcast because I'm not getting the channels I'm paying for on my Cable Cards. (Like others have reported). I've had techs out several times and many calls, and still nothing is resolved.

Rich

Yeah, my tivo isn't picking up any of the channels still. The analog TV and the TV with the digital box have everything running correctly, but apparently my cablecard isn't doing something right for me to see these channels.

SMWinnie

08-16-08, 06:56 AM

Yeah, my tivo isn't picking up any of the channels still. The analog TV and the TV with the digital box have everything running correctly, but apparently my cablecard isn't doing something right for me to see these channels.No luck for me either. It's the same problem as when we got the bump from 550-860MHz around here; Comcast just doesn't care to fix the channel map problem.

heed316

08-16-08, 11:25 AM

Well, as of this morning my tivo is showing the BTN on the appropriate channels. It's just weird that yesterday 255 on the tivo was showing Fox Business while 255 on the STB was showing BTN. Oh, and Comcast was no help as the email I sent them was replied with asking for a truck roll...but it all works now for me so yay!

jefbal99

08-18-08, 09:25 AM

I had posted a message on that subject that was lost when the forum was restored to August 1 after an outage. DirecTV launched a new satellite last March that is supposed to come online in September. I had hoped Lansing HD locals would arrive at that time, but D* just announced the new markets and Lansing is not on the list. That was also confirmed by Customer Service when I emailed them last week. Looks like we're SOL for a while longer - I'm thankful for my OTA antenna and HR20-700 DVR.

Jim

It will be at least Jan 1st 2009 before we get anything. DirecTV announced their HD LiL plans for the rest of the year and Lansing was not part of that.

Just keep on using those ATSC tuners to get them OTA.

SMWinnie

08-23-08, 01:18 PM

After asking about disassembling the CM4228 over in the AVS forum for antennas & receivers, one of the replies indicated that Channel Master has relocated production to China and that the "new" 4228 looks cheap.

Anybody hear anything on this? The 4228 should be named the Channel Master Lansing. (For a UHF antenna, it has exceptional gain for channel 10.)

mathwhiz

08-27-08, 09:17 PM

SMWinnie

08-28-08, 08:37 AM

mathwhiz

08-28-08, 10:48 AM

Thanks, Rich.

I'll check tonight - with whom did you talk at Comcast, because I'm getting nothing but politely blown off.

The only way I ever seem to get any action from Comcast on anything is to use the "E-mail Rick" option on the Contact Us page at www.comcast.com. That is what I did this time. If anyone wants to read my whole big long story I sent to Comcast this time about my recent set of complaints, let me know and I can email it to you. Way too long and somewhat off-topic for this board.

Rich

jefbal99

08-28-08, 11:17 AM

The only way I ever seem to get any action from Comcast on anything is to use the "E-mail Rick" option on the Contact Us page at www.comcast.com. That is what I did this time. If anyone wants to read my whole big long story I sent to Comcast this time about my recent set of complaints, let me know and I can email it to you. Way too long and somewhat off-topic for this board.

Rich

Actually, I'd like to see it posted (you can comment out anything that you want). I've previously posted my rants and emails to comast in this thread. Those rants are the only effective way of getting anything done...

When I was with Comcast, I emailed Bill Connors (Head of Mid West Ops as of last fall - Bill_Connors@cable.comcast.com) and Steve Burke (COO of Comcast - steve_burke@cable.comcast.com) and it was those conversations that were my final push with switch to DirecTV.

Anything that will help the Lansing DMA folks get better service is welcome here.

mathwhiz

08-28-08, 01:26 PM

Per request - here it is. I've contemplated switching to DTV or Dish, but my love of TiVo keeps me with Comcast. If anything, I'd just use OTA only since I'm all setup for it and use OTA for my HD broadcast recordings.

-----------------
I recently wanted to upgrade my service to a higher level to receive certain channels for when the Olympics were broadcast. Here is a short version of my ordeal and my expectations from Comcast.

7/18 - I call to upgrade my service and am offered the Double Play for 59.99 per month for 12 months. I was offered this after I asked about canceling my service because you weren't competitive with other companies. I asked about how this would work with my cable cards and if I could get the box as well. The rep didn't know about cable cards, but said it should work. The only price I was quoted was 59.99 a month.

7/19 - Tech comes to install. The tech didn't know anything about cable cards. The tech didn't know he would have to remove the trap from my line. (I told him about it). The tech left one of my TiVos not hooked up. The tech left my VCR not able to record from cable (not hooked up). The tech left my TV not able to view cable directly. The tech didn't leave any manuals for the cable box or the remote. He said the service system was down so he couldn't activate my box to verify it works and that it should work within 24 hours.

7/20 - Online chat - says activations can take awhile and to check in 24 hours and if it doesn't work to call the activation line - which I was given the number for.

7/21 - I call the activation number since my cable box still isn't working correctly. They say I should have called support, they transfer me to support and am given the call back option, I was called back in 45 mins. They schedule an appointment for 7/25 between 5 and 7. I get a call back from activation - I had to wait 8 mins on hold for a rep since I picked the option that my box wasn't working. (they called me, there should be someone right away) When I got a rep, it was hard to understand them and they had thought I had called them.

7/25 - Tech comes out and has me remove a surge protector and amp from my cable line which then allows my cable box to work. After the tech leaves I realize I'm not getting all the channels I should on my cable cards. I use the online chat and the rep I worked with had no knowledge of cable cards and flat out told lies about them. They also left the room several times and came back in. I know at this point that there is nothing at my end to fix, just the channel mapping attached to my cable cards needs to be updated. The rep insists on setting up an appointment. They give me a Saturday 7/26 time from 12 to 3. When I confirm this they said, nope - it just
changed, it is now Sunday, 7/27, from 5 pm to 7 pm.

7/27 - I have a voicemail on my phone in the morning, saying my appointment was canceled because I wasn't home for the appointment between 8 - 10. I tried to get them to meet the appointment explaining that my time was from 5 to 7. The rep was confused since she said they never schedule an appointment from 5 to 7 on Sundays. She checked to see what she could do, she called me back and said my cable cards needed to be replaced. (I knew this wasn't true, but had to go along with them, since they don't realize I know more than they do). I setup an appointment for 8/1
from 5p to 7p.

8/1 - Tech comes. I explain the situation to him. He calls another tech since he wasn't from the area and didn't know the system here. He wrote down all the information from my cable cards (which should already be on your system). During this because he pulled the cable cards from my TiVo I missed a scheduled recording. He emailed the numbers to the head end since he was told the head end had to set something up. He waited for awhile, but said he might not get a response because it was after 5 on Friday. He said it could take until Monday or Tuesday for the head end to get the message and a few days for it to get fixed, but wasn't sure because he wasn't from the area.

8/8 - Cable cards still not working. At this point I don't contact Comcast because I'm a huge Olympics fan and would be recording coverage 24/7 for the next 2 weeks and didn't want to risk making my situation worse than it was and wouldn't have time for an appointment, since it seems that reps thinks an appointment is needed for every issue. Because this situation was not resolved at this point I missed watching Olympics on USA HD. I also could not watch the coverage on Oxygen since you don't carry that channel.

8/23 - I receive my first bill after the change to my service. The bill is completely wrong. I was charged for the following that I didn't agree to: $3.98 Enhanced A/O, $19.95 Technician visit, $1.50 change of service. Also the following charges do not make sense: $17.35 credit for 1 month 3 days of internet service (when it costs $42.95 a month, $17.35 does not credit a whole month.), and 21 days @ .0643 = 24.72. (when 21 times .0643 = 1.35). I understand that you were adjusting my account to reflect that changes have to be retro since you bill a month ahead. My
old service was 58.88/month, so I could see an additional 1.11 or a bit more since it was a few days more than a month to adjust for. But not 28.82 more.

So that is the situation up to this point. Here are my expectations of Comcast at this point:
1) Get my Cable Cards working for my level of service. The issue is that the channel map that the cable cards are getting has not been updated for the newest channels added to our lineup. It's not an authorization issue. The channels that do exist in the lineup that I'm supposed to receive I do. It's new channels added in the last few months like. 195 - USA HD, 213 - CNN HD, Big Ten Network, etc. Also, the basic and expanded basic channels are still mapped to their analog signal instead of the digital signal. (Note that this doesn't just affect me, but every cable card user on this system.)

2) Update my account so I only get charged the agreed upon $59.99/month (understood there are "taxes, surcharges, and fees" on top of that), starting my 12 month period from the day my service is confirmed by me to be working.

3) Provide a user manual for my cable box and remote control. It's frustrating getting a new piece of consumer equipment without a manual - how am I supposed to know how to use it, what the settings mean, how to program my remote for use on different TVs, etc.

4) Provide training to your reps on cable cards. I get frustrated when reps flat out lie to me. They either need to know the answers or know that they can't handle the call and transfer it to a specialist who can answer the questions.

5) Ensure that cable card customers receive the same level of service for channel updates as others.

6) Ensure adequate notification of new channels (I've had this issue every time there is a channel lineup change). The recent change of Big Ten network was not communicated to the customers. I get a bill from you, you have at least 2 email addresses for me, and you have my mailing address. You can send me a notification of any and all channel line ups. How else am I supposed to know about the channel change?

At this point, there are two options that can happen.
Option A) Expectations #1 and #2 are met 100% and the other expectations are commented on so that I know action is being taken and answers are given to me around why they weren't met in the first place. Provide me with credit for my television service from 7/18 when I made the change through the day I confirm my service is working as expected.

If Option A cannot be accomplished by 9/5/2008, then we will have to resort to Option B.

Option B) I cancel all services from Comcast with a full refund back to 7/18 when I originally wanted to cancel. I also file a formal complaint with the FCC regarding your lack of service for Cable Cards.

The preferred way to contact me is via email due to my busy schedule. However if a call is needed my daytime number is XXX-XXX-XXXX ext. YYYY and my evening number is ZZZ-ZZZ-ZZZZ.

Overall, I get very frustrated having to resort to this level of contact to resolve my issues. It must be noted that every single contact I've had with Comcast over the last few years has not met my satisfaction. Not a good image for a company to have knowing that I dread every time I have to contact them.

Thank you for your time in reading this and investigating my issues.

jefbal99

08-28-08, 08:43 PM

Great tracking and documentation of your issues. If you have anymore issues, I would continue to escalate. The first few levels of support have no idea.

Suggestion/lesson learned on tech visits, ask them to call dispatch to see if a tech is in the area or has an opening to stop by. I was having all kinds of HSI issues at my old place when the local node was upgraded. Connectivity would randomly drop out for 5 minutes to an hour, then be back fine. I eventually discovered that if you ask them to call dispatch, they can usually have one if not 3 or 4 techs at you place within 30 minutes. Seeing the great documentation you have, remind them of how long this has been going on, etc.

mathwhiz

08-28-08, 11:22 PM

Thanks for the tip about having them call dispatch to see if someone is available right away. My appointments are often far apart because I notice problems at night and I work all day during the day, so I can't be home for them. Just an update as well - like I said before - my service is now working correctly, and today I was contacted (they tried on Tuesday but got my email address wrong) about a credit. So from the credit and service aspect, I'm all set. Not for them to verify my account is setup correctly and give some answers to my other concerns.

Matt L

08-28-08, 11:39 PM

garybliev

08-29-08, 09:40 AM

Anyone watch the convention on WKAR tonight? Picture was fine for the most part, but quite a bit of artifacting during shots of people waving flags.

Gary, will the SD feed on -2 be running long term, or will it go in Feb.?

---

I thought it was comparable to what the commercial stations had, am I wrong?

---

23.1 and 23.2 programming will merge on 9/1/08. Where content is in HD it will be in HD on 23.1 where it isn't it will be upconverted. We are asking cable systems and the DBS providers to use 23.1 as the source for their analog tier.

After February we'll be providing other content on 23.2.

Matt L

08-29-08, 10:46 AM

Can't comment on other stations, only watched WKAR, much prefer the coverage without the intrusion of all the crap other feeds add on.

jefbal99

08-29-08, 11:00 AM

New DMA rankings are out and Lansing has dropped again, we are now 114.

2007-08 - 112
2006-07 - 111

It's a slow and steady decline showing the sad state of our area and the economy :/

Anybody know of a site that has historical DMA rankings to see what the peak for Lansing was back in the 70s when the town was booming?

cornell_lingus

08-29-08, 02:28 PM

I don't have the documentation but at one time the Lansing/Jackson DMA was in the mid-90s, might have been as high as 94th IIRC.

ithaca

08-30-08, 03:42 PM

I'm trying to watch the UM game on WLAJ HD (ABC) on Comcast and it's clearly not HD. Is there an easy way to get someone to flip a HD switch?

nystyletaco

08-30-08, 03:54 PM

I'm trying to watch the UM game on WLAJ HD (ABC) on Comcast and it's clearly not HD. Is there an easy way to get someone to flip a HD switch?

From the first post:
WLAJ - (269) 388-9968 (This is WWMT in K'zoo, but they handle the Master Control for WLAJ. Make sure you specify that it is a WLAJ issue)

SMWinnie

08-31-08, 08:26 AM

I'm hoping to attic mount a CM4228...today. The antenna is up there, the RG6 is run and the ends are crimped. But I can't come up with anything to mount the antenna to the narrow end of a 2x6.

Anybody know where I can get antenna hardware locally? I struck out at RatShack, Sears, Aco, Home Depot and Menards.

Matt L

08-31-08, 01:04 PM

mathwhiz

08-31-08, 09:31 PM

I have a similar antenna that I mounted in my attic. I had some zip ties that have screw holes in them. I screwed those to my rafters and then hung it with zip ties. Just an idea.

cornell_lingus

09-01-08, 09:31 PM

Where's everybody buying those Channel Master 4228s? I take it everybody is getting a good deal? For how much? And what's a good amp to use with it?

SMWinnie

09-02-08, 08:20 AM

Where's everybody buying those Channel Master 4228s? I take it everybody is getting a good deal? For how much? And what's a good amp to use with it?I bought one from Solid Signal for about $84 including tax and shipping. They're in Novi, but unfortunately you can't just drop in and grab one.

SMWinnie

09-02-08, 09:37 AM

It really doesn't matter what you use in the attic. You could mount it on a broom handle, wooden dowel, or even hang it with some rope. No hard and fast rules. Exterior mounting you are dealing with lightning and wind loads, none of these apply in the attic.I have a similar antenna that I mounted in my attic. I had some zip ties that have screw holes in them. I screwed those to my rafters and then hung it with zip ties. Just an idea.Thanks for the comments. As it turns out, Lowes had the Philips clone of theChannel Master 3078 (http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-3078-Universal-antenna/dp/B000BSGCV2) universal mount, so I went with that.

I screwed the universal mount to the ridgepole, aimed roughly at Onondaga and tweaked it back and forth a bit while my wife read the signal strength. We're getting almost perfect signal from Onondaga through our heaviest leaf cover of the year, so it looks like the no-rotor attic solution is going to work for us.

The 4228's reception pattern is almost perfect for our location. Aiming the 4228 at the towers in Onondaga puts the WLNS and WKAR towers in a reasonably high gain side lobe. There is another side lobe pointed at the WZPX tower and getting excellent reception, but we don't quite get WXMI out of Grand Rapids. That's a shame on the last point...I'm expecting a couple games at Ford Field not to sell out this year.

jefbal99

09-02-08, 10:17 AM

I'm trying to watch the UM game on WLAJ HD (ABC) on Comcast and it's clearly not HD. Is there an easy way to get someone to flip a HD switch?

Did you check the OTA broadcast to see if it was a WLAJ issue or just isolated to Comcast? Did you follow the suggestion below and make the call?

From the first post:
WLAJ - (269) 388-9968 (This is WWMT in K'zoo, but they handle the Master Control for WLAJ. Make sure you specify that it is a WLAJ issue)

Thanks for pointing this out, all the available info is in the first post :)

and just what is a New York style taco?

heed316

09-02-08, 09:53 PM

Is it just me or is WKARHD out on Comcast? Just tried to watch some of the RNC and the channel is just blank.

mathwhiz

09-02-08, 11:51 PM

garybliev

09-03-08, 12:43 AM

Is it just me or is WKARHD out on Comcast? Just tried to watch some of the RNC and the channel is just blank.

There is a tremendous amount of inversion or ducting this evening, and we may have suffered interference from other channel 55 users.... or it may be that the exciter in our transmitter had a bad adaptive equalization run and it took about twenty minutes to reset.

garybliev

09-03-08, 12:46 AM

I just checked it and it was coming in now at 11:50 p.m. - don't know if it was out later. I did notice that the picture is not quite full on the HD channel. So my fears seem to be true that now that WKAR is simulcasting on 23-1 and 23-2 that they aren't showing the true HD show on 23-1, just upconverted SD. This is NOVA so it should be full HD, but it's not since there are small black bars on all 4 sides of the screen.

We had to do a five minute delay from the PBS feed which started at 11:00 and we can only do this in standard definition.

Our upconverter will allow us to stretch the picture to fill a 16x9 frame, but it looks really bad when we do. The incoming feed from PBS is letterboxed on the SD feed, which means there is only about 300 lines of active video, blow that up to 720p just does not look good.

bmoney017

09-03-08, 02:57 PM

Just a quick side note, MSU dorms now have about 8 HD channels in the dorms. ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, Big Ten, ESPN, and Discovery.

jefbal99

09-04-08, 07:25 AM

Just a quick side note, MSU dorms now have about 8 HD channels in the dorms. ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, Big Ten, ESPN, and Discovery.

Is this through the college or Comcast?

John Shutt

09-04-08, 08:56 AM

Is it just me or is WKARHD out on Comcast? Just tried to watch some of the RNC and the channel is just blank.

I watched it last night on my brand new Philips 19" HDTV and Comcast in Holt. HD was there the whole night on ClearQAM channel 74.2

Which brings me to a question: Does anyone have a ClearQAM channel numbering version of Comcast's in-the-clear digital tier? If not, then I'll try to create one in my 'spare' time.

jefbal99

09-04-08, 10:05 AM

I watched it last night on my brand new Philips 19" HDTV and Comcast in Holt. HD was there the whole night on ClearQAM channel 74.2

Which brings me to a question: Does anyone have a ClearQAM channel numbering version of Comcast's in-the-clear digital tier? If not, then I'll try to create one in my 'spare' time.

I had one in the first post, but it can be different depending on the headend you connect to and it gets changed randomly.

Maybe if I had a QAM tuner, i would scan once a week, but its just not worth the effort to update it.

jefbal99

09-04-08, 10:10 AM

heed316

09-04-08, 11:57 AM

Slight complaint regarding FSN Detroit having exclusive rights to both the Pistons and Red Wings. Each team will have 9 games relegated to FSN Plus, due to conflicts. Of those 18 games, 11 are in Detroit.

This frustrates me because those home games are guaranteed to be in HD. I know that FSN is making a major jump in HD for both home and away this year, however, i feel like we are losing games. With the Pistons having an FSN/OTA contract last year, there were very few if any games pushed to FSN Plus and all the OTA games were HD for the Detroit locals.

DirecTV had an HD slot for FSN Detroit Plus last season, any chance that FSN might produce these FSN Plus games in HD?

Any idea on which team would get bumped to FSN+? I don't watch any basketball but watch all the hockey games, so I'm hoping it's basketball. Hockey in HD is so much better anyways.

Edit: Nevermind, just looked up the schedule. A Wings game against Anaheim and against Colorado on FSN+ seems stupid to me.

jefbal99

09-04-08, 12:55 PM

Any idea on which team would get bumped to FSN+? I don't watch any basketball but watch all the hockey games, so I'm hoping it's basketball. Hockey in HD is so much better anyways.

Edit: Nevermind, just looked up the schedule. A Wings game against Anaheim and against Colorado on FSN+ seems stupid to me.

I just counted total games (9 each) not sure on how the judgment was made for the 9 games. Need to know what the event on the main channel will be.

cornell_lingus

09-07-08, 04:50 PM

Direct did have an HD spillover channel for FSD last season

SMWinnie

09-08-08, 11:59 AM

Well finally after sending a message to the higher ups at Comcast on Monday - amazingly enough - my cablecards/TiVo are getting the new HD channels and the basic/expanded basic channels in a digital format. So anyone else who was having the TiVo problems, check again to see if they are working for you.I had essentially the same experience. Several phone calls resulted in nothing but an offer to charge me for a truck roll and swap cards. When I sent an e-mail inquiry off the "Contact us (http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/contactus/ContactUs.html)" page, I got an email back with a scheduled free truck roll...which I then canceled because the channels magically appeared about ten minutes later.

Sounds like Comcast has about one person who understands TiVo channel map problems and you only get that person via e-mail.

(BTW, I sent a "contact us by e-mail" message rather than "E-Mail[ing] Rick.")

On a related note, how can I tell whether I'm getting an analog signal or a digital ADS signal?

DanMacMan

09-09-08, 01:11 PM

Any word on if or when at&t U-verse will be available in Lansing/Delta Township?

Ken H

09-09-08, 01:19 PM

Sounds like Comcast has about one person who understands TiVo channel map problems and you only get that person via e-mail.
Well, there is probably more than one person, but you can be sure the garden variety CSR won't have a clue. When calling, always ask for a supervisor, and start the conversation by asking 'Do you know what a CableCARD is?" If you don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling, ask for someone who does.

mathwhiz

09-09-08, 05:56 PM

On a related note, how can I tell whether I'm getting an analog signal or a digital ADS signal?

I'm assuming you are referring to a TiVo. I don't remember the exact menu path (and I'm not in front of my TiVo), but it's under Messages and Settings, then Account & System Information, then Diagnostics or DVR Diagnostics or something. This screen will show a bunch of information about your TiVo's signal. When you tune to a channel it will show in here what signal it has - either analog (I think is what it is labeled) but if your channel is digital it will be shown as QAM256 (or 8-VSB for OTA).

You can also tell by when you make a new recording on a digital channel the option for recording quality won't be there. If you can select a recording quality, the channel is analog.

Rich

bulbman2852

09-12-08, 11:56 AM

It has been long time since I looked at the Lansing forum.. Has wkar changed its programing. All I get is cartoons?

John

garybliev

09-12-08, 12:17 PM

It has been long time since I looked at the Lansing forum.. Has wkar changed its programing. All I get is cartoons?

John

WKAR is now simulcasting between 23.1 and 23.2. When content from PBS is available in HD simultaneously with our schedule it will be in HD on 23.1 otherwise, we will be upconverting our 23.2. We did modify our prime-time schedule to more closely match the national schedule, which will increase the opportunity for HD programming.

<Having said that, we are in a membership campaign now, and are not at all matching the PBS national prime-time schedule.>

We also changed our programming moving the mid-afternoon how-to programming from 23.2 to 23.3 (Create).

We will be asking cable and satellite providers to use our 23.1 as the source for their analog tier.

Sometime after February we'll be changing the content on 23.2 and will break the simulcast then.

Also, our last day of analog transmission will be January 13, 2008. We will be modifying our analog transmitter to digital and changing the channel from 23 to 40 so it will be ready to go first thing on February 18.

heed316

09-12-08, 06:49 PM

Saw this over on the Detroit thread, any idea if/when this effects us? I'm only about 10 miles from Adrian, which is one of the places noted in the article.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=163341&site=cdn

Detroit will be the second Comcast Corp. (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) market to get the digital treatment.

Comcast Cable president Steve Burke revealed the Motor City as such today during his talk today at the Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc. Media and Entertainment Conference in Marina Del Ray, Calif.

A Comcast spokeswoman confirmed that the MSO has an all-digital trial underway in Battle Creek and Adrian, Mich., which are both in the Detroit region. The move to digital could pave the way for Detroit to get its hands on Docsis 3.0 later. (See Comcast Enters the Wideband Era .)

SMWinnie

09-12-08, 08:08 PM

WKAR is now simulcasting between 23.1 and 23.2.
[...]
Sometime after February we'll be changing the content on 23.2 and will break the simulcast then.Gary, how will you be handling 4:3 material after you drop the SD feed on 23.2?

For instance, my son is a big Ruff Ruffman fan. We noticed this afternoon that the SD feed on 23.2 was top & bottom cropped (tilted & scanned?) rather than pillarboxed for the 23.1 upconvert.

Is that a choice you make at WKAR or is there a 4:3-to-16:9 conversion baked into the national feed?

cornell_lingus

09-13-08, 07:26 PM

Who's heard comparisons and results from the Channel Master 4228HD vs the older 4228? Is the HD supposed to be that much better and worth waiting for? Or is the HD just a redesign with no real difference in performance?

cornell_lingus

09-14-08, 03:32 AM

Never mind, gang, I saw some mentions elsewhere and ordered the 4228 while it's still available.

garybliev

09-15-08, 10:47 AM

For instance, my son is a big Ruff Ruffman fan. We noticed this afternoon that the SD feed on 23.2 was top & bottom cropped (tilted & scanned?) rather than pillarboxed for the 23.1 upconvert.

?

FETCH with Ruff Ruffman is fed to us by PBS Friday afternoons at 5P. We are just passing it though. On the SD side (23.2), it should have been exactly as sent to us by PBS.

On the HD side (23.1) , we are up-converting to a 14x9 and there is some loss of vertical content while we make the picture wider.

SMWinnie

09-15-08, 01:41 PM

FETCH with Ruff Ruffman is fed to us by PBS Friday afternoons at 5P. We are just passing it though. On the SD side (23.2), it should have been exactly as sent to us by PBS.Ah, sorry. My earlier post was ambiguous. Yes, the SD feed on 23.2 was fine. I should have written something like "the SD feed on 23.2 was top & bottom cropped (tilted & scanned?) rather than pillarboxed [in the process of making] the 23.1 upconvert"
On the HD side (23.1) , we are up-converting to a 14x9 and there is some loss of vertical content while we make the picture wider.After you drop the SD simulcast from 23.2, do you expect that you'll be cropping all 4:3 material to generate the 23.1 feed? It would be sad that you have to lose picture data, but I understand the flip side is angry calls from people who don't know how to zoom/stretch/whatever on their monitor.

garybliev

09-15-08, 04:22 PM

After you drop the SD simulcast from 23.2, do you expect that you'll be cropping all 4:3 material to generate the 23.1 feed? It would be sad that you have to lose picture data, but I understand the flip side is angry calls from people who don't know how to zoom/stretch/whatever on their monitor.

Some up converters do a stretch 14:9, perhaps you have seen the suddenly over-weight anchors? Ours is set to just blow the picture up, to make it wider it makes it taller as well, then it gets cut-off.

If you watch us during the day when we have the E/I logo up (Educational/Informational) you'll see that there is some active content on 23.2 but pretty much the cut-off is just above the E/I logo.

Even if we are not simulcasting, we, and the system, have a tremendous amount of 4:3 content, which will have to be converted for 23.1

We could just do a 4:3 with the full pillar box, if the cropping is a problem.

pierceive

09-15-08, 10:28 PM

I'm just waiting for the inevitable court cases resulting from TV networks cutting the fine print off of commercials due to the 14:9 blow-up-and-crop.

garybliev

09-16-08, 07:40 AM

I'm just waiting for the inevitable court cases resulting from TV networks cutting the fine print off of commercials due to the 14:9 blow-up-and-crop.

The commercial guys seem to be in two camps: Those that allow widescreen on their standard definition service and those that are maintaining 4x3. One major network recently changed their national distribution to all HD all the time.... the receivers the stations use are now performing the 4x3 as a center-cut from the HD content.

The commercial nets are shooting in 16x9 but protecting 4x3. You've seen this on the news and sports, where all of the critical graphics are in the center 4x3.

PBS as a network chose to not protect the center but to allow their producers to use the full frame, with the intent that it not be center-cut, this is why we have so much wide-screen on our SD channels.

Looks like stations are also a mix, we are doing the 4x3 to 16x9 as a blow-up which is cropping off some video at the top and bottom. Others are preserving that content while expanding and just expanding the horizontal.

John Shutt

09-16-08, 08:53 AM

I'm just waiting for the inevitable court cases resulting from TV networks cutting the fine print off of commercials due to the 14:9 blow-up-and-crop.

That shouldn't really be a problem because in the Analog world of CRTs, there is something called "overscan" that is taken into account when composing titles. You may have noticed that some CRT-based NTSC TVs, especially the smaller ones, have so much overscan that news channels have part of their lower third news/stock quotes tickers cut off.

When the same program is displayed on an LCD or Plasma display, you pretty much see edge to edge of the image, so you may notice that graphics seem to be unnaturally far away from the edges.

When WKAR upconverts the 4:3 to a 14:9 pillarbox, we are cutting off the top and bottom of the image that is outside of the safe title area, thus most if it would not be seen on a legacy NTSC CRT anyway. The results for us are that "16:9 letterboxed within 4:3" SD material that gets upconverted has a smaller "postage stamp" appearance on the HD upconvert than it otherwise would have with a straight 4:3 pillarbox, and true 4:3 SD material have smaller pillars.

NTSC-to-ATSC converter boxes can zoom the pillarboxed HD to fill a 4:3 screen, but many HD televisions do not allow such a zoom when in HD mode (my Philips LCD included.)

I'm sure if enough people complain to Gary, we'll change the upconvert back to straight 4:3 pillarbox, but honestly I like how what we are doing now looks on my HDTV set compared to how the other OTA HD channels in town look when they present 4:3 programs in HD.

Ideally, we would like to change the upconvert format program-by-program, providing a screen-filling full 16:9 zoom with letterboxed SD material, and 4:3 pillarbox on SD material. But until AFD gets fully implemented, we have no way to automate this process, hence the 14:9 "set-and-forget" compromise.

John Shutt

09-16-08, 08:59 AM

I had one in the first post, but it can be different depending on the headend you connect to and it gets changed randomly.

Maybe if I had a QAM tuner, i would scan once a week, but its just not worth the effort to update it.

Here all of the analog and digital channels I get with my ClearQAM tuner in Holt, MI, which is the Lansing Comcast lineup (I'm an Expanded Basic subscriber):

3 WLAJ (ABC)
4 WILX (NBC)
5 CW (via WLAJ-DT)
6 ION
7 WSYM (FOX)
8 WHTV (MNT)
9 WLNS (CBS)
10 TBS Superstation
11 WGN
12 Government Access
13 WKAR (PBS)
15 Educational Access
16 Public Access
17 Local Origination/MGTV
18 Educational Access
19 Religious Access
20 Educational Access
21 Educational Access
23 The Learning Channel
24 TNT
25 C-SPAN
26 Golf Channel
27 Bravo
28 truTV
29 FX
30 Versus
31 ESPN
32 ESPN2
33 Fox Sports Net Detroit
34 CNN
35 CNN Headline News
36 The Weather Channel
37 CNBC
38 Nickelodeon
39 ABC Family
40 Disney Channel
41 The Discovery Channel
42 A&E
43 USA
44 Lifetime
45 E!
46 MSNBC
47 Home Shopping Network
48 Home & Garden TV
49 Spike TV
50 Univision
51 BET
52 MTV
53 VH1
54 QVC
55 TV Guide Network
56 AMC
57 Animal Planet
58 Country Music Television
59 Comedy Central
60 Cartoon Network
61 TV Land
62 Fox News Channel
63 The History Channel
64 Food Network
65 Big Ten Network
66.1 Video On Demand Barker Video
72.13 Music Choice – R&B
72.21 Music Choice – Classic Rock
73.3 WLAJ-HD (ABC)
73.5 WSYM-HD (Fox)
74.2 WKAR-HD 23.1 (PBS)
74.3 WLNS-HD (CBS)
74.5 WKAR 23.3 SD (Create)
74.6 WKAR 23.4 SD (World)
75.3 WILX-HD (NBC)
75.7 WILX 10.2 SD (Weather)
83.9 HSN
83.10 QVC
84.5 TBS
85.7 CBC
85.12 Educational Access
87.1 Government Access (Lansing)
87.2 Educational Access (LCC)
87.3 Public Access
87.4 Leased Access
87.5 Educational Access (MSU – Create)
87.6 Religious Access
87.7 Educational Access (MSU – World)
87.8 Educational Access (Lansing Schools)
87.905 Leased Access (Duplicate of 87.4?)
88.9 WGN
88.15 TV Guide Channel
89.1 WLAJ-TV SD (ABC)
89.2 WSYM-TV SD (Fox)
89.3 ION
89.4 WKAR 23.2 SD (PBS)
89.5 WHTV (MNT)
89.6 WILX-TV SD (NBC)
89.7 WLNS-TV SD (CBS)
89.8 CW

SMWinnie

09-16-08, 09:19 AM

[W]e are doing the 4x3 to 16x9 as a blow-up which is cropping off some video at the top and bottom. Others are preserving that content while expanding and just expanding the horizontal.This is what has me scratching my head. The 4:3-to-16:9 choices appear to be: (1) zoom; (2) stretch; and (3) pillarbox.

(1) Zoom (WKAR's choice) avoids the fathead anchor (or "obese munchkin") stretch and fills the screen, but discards picture information.
(2) Stretch retains all the picture information and fills the screen, but distorts the picture in a way that most sets can't reverse.
(3) Pillarbox retains all the picture information and correct geometry, but doesn't fill the screen. (Burn-in problems can be minimized with grey sidebars.)

I have three HDTVs/HDTV monitors, and each of them allows me to zoom or stretch a signal if I choose to. So, if a station gives me a pillarboxed 4:3 signal, I can get to the zoom or stretch choices by myself. Unfortunately, if a station sends the signal zoomed or stretched, I can't back out of that decision in the same way, since either picture information has been discarded or the geometry has been altered in a way I can't undo.

Gary, just to be sure - WKAR is zooming 4:3 to 16:9 (loses 25% of the picture information), not 4:3 to 14:9 (loses 14% of the picture information), right? I'm not seeing the small sidebars required for putting a 14:9 image in a 16:9 frame.

John Shutt

09-16-08, 09:54 AM

Gary, just to be sure - WKAR is zooming 4:3 to 16:9 (loses 25% of the picture information), not 4:3 to 14:9 (loses 14% of the picture information), right? I'm not seeing the small sidebars required for putting a 14:9 image in a 16:9 frame.

Please see my post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14672258#post14672258

I assure you we are doing a 14:9 upconversion. If we were zooming 4:3 to 16:9, you would see no black pillar bars at all on the HD channel. However, for material other than 16:9-letterbox-within-4:3 this cuts off too much from the top and bottom of the original 4:3 image.

As I type this I am watching the program "Super WHY!" on the HD channel (the WKAR HD bug is in the lower right corner) with my Philips 16:9 (16:10 really, but that's another matter) HDTV, and there are small black bars on all four sides of the image, because this program is letterboxed in SD.

If you do not see the black bars, either you have the zoom activated on your set/converter box, or else you are viewing on a 4:3 CRT with overscan.

What are you viewing DTV with?

SMWinnie

09-16-08, 09:54 AM

Here all of the analog and digital channels I get with my ClearQAM tuner in Holt, MI, which is the Lansing Comcast lineup (I'm an Expanded Basic subscriber):

3 WLAJ (ABC)
...
89.8 CWThe problem is as jeffbal99 noted. Comcast isn't using the same QAM assignments from headend to headend and the assignments on a particular headend change sporadically.

So, using a clear QAM tuner - even to get the Comcast carriage of the OTA signals - is difficult because: (1) you cannot trust that the lengthy channel scan you do today will be good tomorrow; and (2) we can't even solve the problem cooperatively because your QAM assignments aren't the same as mine and jeffbal99's may differ from each of ours.

I would love a simple amendment to the Telecommunications Act of '96 requiring that MSOs broadcast their channel map, at least for unencrypted channels, and establishing a standard for that data broadcast. My Aquos' clear QAM tuner becomes relevant and TiVo's tuning resolver becomes either much simpler or unnecessary.

SMWinnie

09-16-08, 10:08 AM

Please see my post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14672258#post14672258Thanks! It looks like that appeared while I was composing my question.
I assure you we are doing a 14:9 upconversion. If we were zooming 4:3 to 16:9, you would see no black pillar bars at all on the HD channel. However, for material other than 16:9-letterbox-within-4:3 this cuts off too much from the top and bottom of the original 4:3 image.

As I type this I am watching the program "Super WHY!" on the HD channel (the WKAR HD bug is in the lower right corner) with my Philips 16:9 (16:10 really, but that's another matter) HDTV, and there are small black bars on all four sides of the image, because this program is letterboxed in SD.

If you do not see the black bars, either you have the zoom activated on your set/converter box, or else you are viewing on a 4:3 CRT with overscan.

What are you viewing DTV with?I get WKAR a few different ways.
WKAR 23.1 feed on Comcast > Moto6412P3 > Sharp Aquos LCD
WKAR 23.1 feed on Comcast > TiVo HD > Philips tube HDTV monitor
WKAR 23.1 feed OTA > TiVo HD > Philips tube HDTV monitor
WKAR 23.2 feed OTA > TiVo HD > Philips tube HDTV monitor
(I am getting but ignoring here the 23.3, 23.4 and 'KAR4 feeds either through Comcast or OTA.)

I only did the 23.2/23.1 A/B test on the tube TV, since I hate the analog artifacts on Comcast's channel 4. Having now read your posts, I suspect I missed the 14:9-to-16:9 sidebars in the overscan on the tube. (14:9 in a 16:9 frame requires sidebars covering 6.25% of the screen horizontally, which is pretty close to my overscan loss behind the bezel.)

John Shutt

09-16-08, 10:11 AM

I would love a simple amendment to the Telecommunications Act of '96 requiring that MSOs broadcast their channel map, at least for unencrypted channels, and establishing a standard for that data broadcast. My Aquos' clear QAM tuner becomes relevant and TiVo's tuning resolver becomes either much simpler or unnecessary.

I agree. I'm curious. If you are in the Lansing Comcast system (not the East Lansing/Okemos system) what are your corresponding ClearQAM channel numbers compared to the ones I gave? Those numbers I gave are what my Philips calls the ClearQAM channels, and is a combination of the actual 6MHz RF channel number and the program number from the MPEG Transport Stream's Program Map Table.

Comcast converter boxes map those to their own virtural channel numbers (1, and 102-963), but a TiVo or other ClearQAM tuner should come up with similar numbering that my Philips has.

DanMacMan

09-16-08, 02:30 PM

heed316

09-16-08, 10:56 PM

So my TiVo tells me today that channels 16 and 17, local and public access channels, have been moved to 190 and 924. Comcast getting rid of 2 analog channels could mean some more HD in my area soon. Anyone else have the analogs removed?

Edit: Argh, should have known better. Seems like the guide data that the TiVo gets is just wrong as the analogs are still there and the digitals don't exist. Maybe it'll be happening soon. I can only hope at least.

garybliev

09-17-08, 08:50 AM

This is my biggest complaint with the local affiliates and HD broadcasts, with the exception of WKAR.

During times of weather, why in the world can't WILX, WLNS and WLAJ figure out how to put a weather bug over the HD feed? Why do they always revert to the SD feed to do this? How is it that WKAR can do this and they can't? It is so frustrating....

To be fair, WKAR is only putting up a single bug in the corner (Thunderstorm Warning, Tornado Watch, Tornado Warning, or Flash Flood Warning) along with a single crawl per Emergency Alert System activation.

We are not putting up radar images, or updating the counties under different alerts.

HD graphics packages that can perform those functions are very expensive, to properly implement in a commercial environment likely requires the addition of a full HD master control switcher and system.

It will change but it does take a lot of funds. Just getting the digital channels on the air has likely cost each station in excess of two million dollars.

Those of us who have to change channels because of "out-of-core" assignements (WKAR 55 to 40, WLNS 59 to 36. and WILX 57 to 10) still have additional expenses associated just to be on the air.

garybliev

09-17-08, 08:51 AM

SMWinnie

09-21-08, 06:07 PM

For those of you watching pro football this afternoon, WLNS master control is aware that that they're in SD for this afternoon's Steelers/Eagles game. They're having trouble with the national feed.

jefbal99

09-23-08, 12:16 PM

Starting a new Home Theatre project for my basement remodel. Just ordered a 100" viewable projector screen from htdepot.com (good reviews from another thread here). That will be recess mounted in the ceiling as the drywall goes up as part of phase 1. My electrician will be over this week to add additional circuits and run wiring for the basement. I will have him add a few additional outlets for the projector (it has an electric motor for lowering/raising) and for the projector (which will be ceiling mounted). I've also ordered 25ft HDMI and Component cables to run from the projector mount to a closet where my IRDs and Audio unit will be located.

I'm currently looking at the Optoma HD65 as the projector to purchase for this project. Its at the lower end of the HD Projectors, but I don't have $2k to drop on a unit. It has great reviews over at projectorcentral.com and there is a good thread about it here too.

This project is going to progress over time as I can't buy everything at once, so the projector prolly won't be purchased until after the first of the year and I also need to decide on an audio processor. I'm going to run audio cables for 7.1 surround sound, even if the audio processor is only capable of 5.1. This would be for a possible future upgrade.

This is a fun and exciting project for me. I will post some pictures and keep ya'll abreast of the progress as it moves along :)

heed316

09-24-08, 06:05 PM

Red Wings HD schedule for FSN is out. FSN schedule (http://msn.foxsports.com/id/8499044). I counted 58 HD games.

jefbal99

09-24-08, 06:37 PM

Red Wings HD schedule for FSN is out. FSN schedule (http://msn.foxsports.com/id/8499044). I counted 58 HD games.

Interesting, one Versus game per month

cornell_lingus

09-25-08, 12:21 AM

I don't see HD Net on the Red Wing TV schedule. Did HD Net not pick up the NHL this season or do they wait to make selections on games until later?

jefbal99

09-25-08, 08:45 AM

I don't see HD Net on the Red Wing TV schedule. Did HD Net not pick up the NHL this season or do they wait to make selections on games until later?

NHL and HDNet have not announced a contract agreement for this season yet.

limiter

09-30-08, 08:23 AM

East Lansing - My TivoHD (cable card) just updated the channel list and said I have four new Big10 channels (692, 693, 694, 695) none appear to be HD, but they do have big10 content so hopefully this means we can pick the game we want to see.

The update also said SpikeTV HD, NikHD, Reelz, and Educational Access 902-912 were removed. I checked SpikeHD and NikHD and neither tune on my Tivo, but to be honest I don't know if they worked before, they were not channels I ever watched.

mathwhiz

09-30-08, 02:16 PM

I'll have to check my TiVo when I get home (Series 3 w/cable cards) (Meridian Comcast) to see if I got a lineup update. My Series 3 could tune the 4 extra Big10 channels before, just not listed in the lineup or with data. These are the 4 overflow channels for Big 10. We always had them, Tribune finally got word that we have them. I did not that SpikeHD and NikHD were in the lineup before but I never received them. Reelz may have been a lineup change, I think the August lineup change Comcast did moved Reelz around. The 900 series of channels I would think would still be there. It'll give me something to look to when I get home. I have a feeling I'll have to report sometime to TiVo - wouldn't be the first time the lineup was changed incorrectly. And if TiVo is right and Comcast dropped those channels, then I'll have to contact Comcast and complain again.

SMWinnie

09-30-08, 02:19 PM

East Lansing - My TivoHD (cable card) just updated the channel list and [...] SpikeTV HD, NikHD, Reelz, and Educational Access 902-912 were removed. I checked SpikeHD and NikHD and neither tune on my Tivo, but to be honest I don't know if they worked before, they were not channels I ever watched.SpikeHD and Nick HD have been untunable "you need a CableCard" as long as I can remember. I also have a Moto6412 from Comcast, which doesn't get the channels either.

And, according to the Comcast channel list for East Lansing (find the pdf here (http://www.comcast.com/michigan/)), neither of those channels is offered.

heed316

10-01-08, 10:54 AM

NikHD and SpikeHD showed up a month or two ago on my Tivo. Neither channel ever came in and I even emailed Comcast about it. They said the channels weren't there and that it was a problem with Tribune. The 4 new Big10 channels have been there all along, they are just now added to the guide. So nothing really changed except the guide on the Tivo getting fixed.

Speaking of the Tivo guide, why isn't the VersusHD channel listing the upcoming NHL games? It has all Golf listings when Versus will be airing the NHL games in Europe and for the home opener for the Wings. Makes it hard to record these games when the guide is wrong.

limiter

10-02-08, 07:26 AM

garybliev

10-02-08, 08:25 AM

Any reason the vice presidential debates are listed at 10PM instead of 9PM for WKARHD on my channel guide? The SD WKAR channel lists them at 9PM. All the other networks have it at 9PM. I would much rather watch it on WKARHD then one of the other network channels.

9:00 PM WKAR-TV, WKAR-DT 23.1 and 23.2 will all have the Vice Presidential Debate.

Whatever channel guide you are looking at is incorrect.

limiter

10-02-08, 11:41 AM

Thanks for the update. It was the Tivo channel guide for East Lansing Comcast digital cable. They have "This Old House" listed at 9, and 9:30 then the debate at 10.

9:00 PM WKAR-TV, WKAR-DT 23.1 and 23.2 will all have the Vice Presidential Debate.

Whatever channel guide you are looking at is incorrect.

cornell_lingus

10-03-08, 05:07 PM

DirecTV is showing 664 as the overflow channel for Fox Sports Detroit

heed316

10-03-08, 11:12 PM

So I just had it on a local access channel here, and on the Bart Hawley show on channel 17(me and my brother find this guy incredible terrible, so we watch to laugh) he was talking about how local access channel 17 was going to be switching to some digital channel 190 on October 15th. Then there was a graphic showing that if you needed a digital box it would only be 1.99$ a month. Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone else heard of any other analog channels getting switched over to free up some space? Could this possibly be the beginning of the alleged analog migration for Michigan?

Edit: Found the link on the JTV website about this http://www.jtv.tv/images/jtv%20move.pdf . I'm now thinking that nothing is going to be changing as JTV would be in the clear on QAM and nothing to do with the greater picture of analog migration :(

SPACEMAKER

10-08-08, 10:57 AM

Is WLAJ on a timer? Right at 6pm on Sunday the NASCAR race switched from HD to SD. The news was scheduled to start at 6pm.

Can anything be done to prevent this in the future?

SRussell

10-08-08, 01:24 PM

Is it just me or has there been a lot more SD content on WKARHD(23.1) recently, more than there used to be. Looks pretty bad after getting used to the HD stuff.

garybliev

10-08-08, 03:25 PM

Is it just me or has there been a lot more SD content on WKARHD(23.1) recently, more than there used to be. Looks pretty bad after getting used to the HD stuff.

yep, been that way since september 1st, here is what I said on 9/12:

WKAR is now simulcasting between 23.1 and 23.2. When content from PBS is available in HD simultaneously with our schedule it will be in HD on 23.1 otherwise, we will be upconverting our 23.2. We did modify our prime-time schedule to more closely match the national schedule, which will increase the opportunity for HD programming.

<Having said that, we are in a membership campaign now, and are not at all matching the PBS national prime-time schedule.>

We also changed our programming moving the mid-afternoon how-to programming from 23.2 to 23.3 (Create).

We will be asking cable and satellite providers to use our 23.1 as the source for their analog tier.

Sometime after February we'll be changing the content on 23.2 and will break the simulcast then.

Also, our last day of analog transmission will be January 13, 2008. We will be modifying our analog transmitter to digital and changing the channel from 23 to 40 so it will be ready to go first thing on February 18.

SRussell

10-10-08, 02:55 PM

Out of curiosity, why the change to the HD programming. Sadly, as much as I enjoy the content on WKAR I will not be watching as much now. The SD material looks horrid on my 60" sxrd.

Trip in VA

10-10-08, 04:49 PM

Out of curiosity, why the change to the HD programming. Sadly, as much as I enjoy the content on WKAR I will not be watching as much now. The SD material looks horrid on my 60" sxrd.

It's likely due to the fact that the 24/7 HD feed from PBS is going away on 02/17/09. It's being replaced with an alternate schedule designed not to compete with the local PBS stations, so no programming would line up with where it belongs.

- Trip

heed316

10-10-08, 06:32 PM

Anybody else getting a blank picture for the baseball game on WSYMDT.

mathwhiz

10-10-08, 08:17 PM

Anybody else getting a blank picture for the baseball game on WSYMDT.

I was going to ask the same thing. This is the 2nd Friday evening that I have no digital signal on 47-1 or 47-2. Also, I was surprised that Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader wasn't on. Oh wait just heard it's coming on next. Wish my Guide data would be correct. So I missed two shows last week because they weren't on the air, and now who knows what I'm going to miss tonight. Who Wants to Be Smarter Than a 5th Grader I can watch online, but don't know where to get missed episodes of Don't Forget the Lyrics.

magum98

10-11-08, 10:07 AM

Anybody else getting a blank picture for the baseball game on WSYMDT.

Yes, I am. It just started happening yesterday for the baseball game. I have Directv with an off-air antenna hooked up. All my other local channels in HD come in fine with the off-air antenna, except Fox 47 HD. And it's still not coming in this morning. Is there an issue with Fox then? Anyone else experience the same problem? Any help to resolve the issue is appreciated, especially with NFL games on tomorrow.
Mark

garybliev

10-13-08, 08:51 AM

Out of curiosity, why the change to the HD programming. Sadly, as much as I enjoy the content on WKAR I will not be watching as much now. The SD material looks horrid on my 60" sxrd.

The change was initiated, indirectly, by PBS as they are are converting their national program delivery system to HD, the separate PBS HD channel is being discontinued. Where we had an "HD Channel" and a "National Program Service" we will only have one feed. The change was done in anticipation of the end of analog service in February.

Unfortunately, PBS as a system just does not have a lot of HD programming available. More is coming every day, and PBS is committed to more HD programming especially in the prime-time schedule.

WKAR is in the process of ordering a multi camera HD remote package and we expect to have local HD content next fall.

We still need multiple millions of dollars to convert our studios and production equipment.

mathwhiz

10-13-08, 10:24 AM

I emailed Fox 47 about their signal loss and here is what I received in response:

Please allow me to apologize for the digital problems we've experienced
the past 2 weekends. I am just as frustrated as you with our digital
signal being out two weeks in a row!

The signal has been consistently solid for the past 3 years and now
back-to-back problems.

I have been assured by our Chief Engineer the problems that have
occurred are unrelated to each other. We had a full staff at the
transmitter this weekend working and had the digital signal back up to
full power by Saturday afternoon.

garybliev

10-16-08, 01:09 PM

[QUOTE=jefbal99;9781843]Welcome to the new Lansing, MI HDTV/DTV thread. Currently HDTV is available from five sources: OTA (Over the air), Comcast Cable, BroadStripe Cable, D* (Direct TV), and E* (Dish Network). With Michigan's "Cable Franchise" laws changing after the '06 election, hopefully we will see some more competition in the area from new providers.

Previous Lansing, MI – HDTV Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=233233)

The Lansing/Jackson DMA consists of the following counties: Clinton, Eaton, Hillsdale, Ingham, and Jackson /QUOTE]

When you get a chance, please move "WHTV" from the co-location with WLAJ to co-location with WLNS. (the digital moved, the analog is still on WLAJ's tower)

cornell_lingus

10-18-08, 06:12 PM

This is odd. The Pitt-Navy game on CSTV-HD looks like a nice, clear HDTV broadcast and not fisheye-vision.

alig04

10-18-08, 10:01 PM

PinwiZ

10-24-08, 02:14 PM

jefbal99

10-28-08, 09:20 AM

When you get a chance, please move "WHTV" from the co-location with WLAJ to co-location with WLNS. (the digital moved, the analog is still on WLAJ's tower)

Yeah, I'll get the graphic updated

jefbal99

10-28-08, 09:21 AM

Any updates as to when Dish Network will be adding the rest of the locals in HD? Good to see they've got a couple up now, but having the rest would be good since I can't pull them in very well with an antenna.

No clue, they were uplinked for quite awhile, but are no longer. Lansing has gone live as an Eastern Arc market so new installs will get the 1000.4 dish and MPEG4 everything. The SD versions are up in MPEG4

jefbal99

10-28-08, 09:23 AM

Is WLAJ on a timer? Right at 6pm on Sunday the NASCAR race switched from HD to SD. The news was scheduled to start at 6pm.

Can anything be done to prevent this in the future?

Call Master Control at WWMT in K'zoo and have them switch it back. I've called many times in the past few weeks for College Football games and Nascar events not being in HD. They seem to get stuck when they run those stupid overlays for the Feb 09 Digital Transition.

garybliev

10-28-08, 12:05 PM

Finally, This Old House started broadcasting in HD with Comcast in the Lansing area today.

Their rush to broadcast in HD was at glacial speed but does it look great.

Tommy looks a bit older in high def!

Regards, Bob

Actually, it's a WKAR thing not a Comcast thing. We are doing a quick turn-around of the show from PBS to our HD channel.

Gumby83

11-01-08, 03:49 PM

Ok. Who's the morons, directv or espn, for blacking out the last 24secs of the state game.THIS WAS B*******T.

John

cornell_lingus

11-01-08, 04:13 PM

Direct. They still had the low-rent feed on but the HD feed was shut off automatically at the end of the programmed time for the early game.

garybliev

11-02-08, 09:28 AM

Actually, it's a WKAR thing not a Comcast thing. We are doing a quick turn-around of the show from PBS to our HD channel.

Actually, I believe we are the only station in town that is now doing delays of HD content from the network for broadcast. Yea us.

Meanwhile, boo us, we're still having to run a lot of 4:3 content on the HD service, we have ceased the expansion to 14:9 and are just sticking it in the center as 4:3 content. Too many people got tired of their heads getting chopped off.

I know you are all looking forward to our December membership campaign, much of the "fresh" content will be in HD.

GomerP

11-03-08, 11:40 PM

So I have taken the leap into HD wilderness. I've read through this thread, and learned a lot... but I have a few questions. It looks like this is the place for info!!

I am stuck with Comcast and their High Speed Internet here in East Lansing... well technically Meridian Township, but I have an East Lansing address. The city line is between my house and the house behind mine.

Sent the GF over to the Comcast office to pick up an HD DVR. It was my assumption that since we already had the Digital Starter Package, we'd get the majority of the HD channels (those that mirror expanded basic, not premium) with an HD box.

First lesson (as the GF discovered), is not to go to Comcast on the first of the month. I guess the place is a zoo.

When she picked up the HD DVR, they told her she had to upgrade to Digital Classic for $15 more a month (in addition to the HD DVR charge). That didn't seem to jive with my understanding of the situation, and when she called back later they said that because of the "system" we may or may not have to pay more to get the HD channels where we live. *shrug* gonna have to watch that bill closely. Should we have to pay more or not?

The next issue was the HD DVR box. Having read that the DCT series was garbage, I told her to make sure to get a DCH 3416 box. I had used one of the DCT series at a neighbors house and it was practically unusable for a DVR as the lag was so bad.

At first they handed her a DCT box and when they asked for a different one, hey looked puzzled but eventually fished out a beat up DCH. They said she could bring it back later in the week and they should have a new one.

Are the DCT boxes still problematic? Is the DCH box the way to go? Do the ethernet and USB ports have any functionality?

Because... this DCH box is going back for sure. While it is much improved over the DCT box I used at the neighbor's, it spontaneously reboots or shuts off after 2-6 minutes of use. That's not gonna cut it.

Last question... why is it that the QAM channels jump all over the place? How often do they change? I hope to be able to use the QAM channels for PIP, but it's gonna be a pain if they don't stay still!

Thanks for any help guys and gals =)

jefbal99

11-04-08, 07:04 PM

WLNS is in SD for Network election coverage, WSYM is showing Family Guy instead of Fox Network coverage

Edit in: Called WLNS newsline and they are not in HD because they will have their own graphics up all night in SD for local election results. They will not be flipping back and forth between the HD and SD feed. I let the lady know that I would be watching ABC or NBC.

Edit in 2: Called Fox 47 newsline and the lady was unsure of the local schedule, but that they would be doing cut ins with local election coverage. But she said she would look into what should be live right now.

Edit in 3: Love how NBC is doing coverage, beaking in twice an hour for local updates, HD network feed otherwise

gschrock

11-05-08, 11:51 AM

Direct. They still had the low-rent feed on but the HD feed was shut off automatically at the end of the programmed time for the early game.

And oddly, they seemed to have the HD feed on the sub-100 channel that still has the mpeg2 stuff for espn working. I tried flipping to that figuring it wouldn't work, but was able to watch the end of the game.

qurazyquisp

11-07-08, 08:32 PM

garybliev

11-11-08, 08:36 AM

I just purchased a Wineguard SS-3000, after reading many reviews. I get quite a few channels, however, Fox is WSYM, and it goes from full signal strength to nothing very frequently (like a few times a minute). Does anyone have this problem? the antenna is practically pointed right at it, and I get nothing (But skipping sound and video). I'm on the third floor of an apartment in East Lansing (Chandler Crossings)

Third floor is good, you've got height, but how many walls between you and WSYM's transmitter? (They are near Eaton Rapids)

The SS-3000 is a powered antenna. Is the power inserter properly installed?
http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/2452064.pdf

You may have a multipath situation regarding that particular station. Perhaps moving the antenna to another location or turning it slightly off from aim might help. (Although the antenna is designed to reduce multipath)

We've made a map of local stations, which is similar to that in post 1 of this thread, for your consideration. http://wkar.org/digitalguy/transmitters.php

jefbal99

11-11-08, 09:54 AM

Gary, do you mind if I link to that map rather than redoing mine?

garybliev

11-11-08, 05:21 PM

Gary, do you mind if I link to that map rather than redoing mine?

checking.... checking.... checking ....

garybliev

11-12-08, 08:52 AM

Gary, do you mind if I link to that map rather than redoing mine?

You may paste it into post 1 and replace your map, or you may link to it.

jefbal99

11-12-08, 09:37 AM

You may paste it into post 1 and replace your map, or you may link to it.

I link to it, that way if you update, it will auto update here.

Thanks :)

Matt L

11-12-08, 11:12 AM

WKAR Auido ?

Gary, the other night I was watching some of the PrimeTime HD programming, the level seemed a little low, but I didn't give it too much thought. I left the room for a while, had to be about 11 PM, and all of a sudden the audio come blasting out, I could hear it in the basement. Looked to be a non-HD show. Why the big swing in audio levels?

wb8tgy

11-12-08, 11:35 AM

I see, WPXD-DT, Ann Arbor, (Ion) wants to move to channel 19 (same as WXMI-DT, FOX, in G.R.)

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-1502A1.pdf

I don't think I like this, I get both stations now. If this happens I may not be able to watch all the blacked out Lions games next season......

Trip in VA

11-12-08, 01:20 PM

Cross-posting from the Allocations thread...

WPXD wants to relocate itself closer to Detroit in the process, so it's not like it's an even swap. It's no different from WJBK and WOOD on 7, or WWJ and WZPX on 44 (which are actually closer together), or WDIV and WLLA on 45, etc.

- Trip

garybliev

11-12-08, 05:02 PM

heed316

11-18-08, 10:54 PM

jefbal99

11-19-08, 09:12 AM

Any word on more HD coming to the area. My Tivo once again pissed me off as apparently Comcast lied to Tribune about the listings as it said it added some HD channels, none of which are received as of yet. I'm hoping it's just a day or two before they show up, but I'm not holding my breath as they do get the lineup and lineup changes wrong it seems quite a bit. Anyways, the HD channels it claims it added are as follows:

183 Travel HD
186 Bio HD
210 Green HD
214 Fox News Channel HD
221 Lifetime Movie Network HD
223 Speed HD
224 FX HD
225 E! HD
227 Toon HD

Like I said, none of these tune in. I'm hoping against hope that these are for real channels as I'd like to get some more HD here.

If Comcast is sending the info to Tribune, then they will prolly be added in the near future. I have not heard of a Carriage Agreement between Comcast and Cox for Travel Channel HD. E! HD doesn't launch until December 8th (along with G4, the Versus/Golf Channel Split, and Style HD).

Please let me know if/when any of these are live and I will update the first post.

JT01

11-19-08, 10:19 AM

I have not heard of a Carriage Agreement between Comcast and Cox for Travel Channel HD. E! HD doesn't launch until December 8th (along with G4, the Versus/Golf Channel Split, and Style HD)

This may be off-topic, but is there any possibility of Travel Channel HD on D* in the near future? This is one of the few channels I watch regularly that is not available in HD.......

Thanks

JT

jefbal99

11-19-08, 10:56 AM

This may be off-topic, but is there any possibility of Travel Channel HD on D* in the near future? This is one of the few channels I watch regularly that is not available in HD.......

Thanks

JT

There was hope and rumor a few weeks ago, but nothing solid. My wife wants it quite badly as she watches The Travel Channel daily.

I'm hoping to see Versus HD and The Golf Channel HD split on Dec 8th.
ESPN U HD is high on my list
The Cablevision suite of AMC HD, WE HD, and IFC HD would be nice.

heed316

11-19-08, 06:15 PM

If Comcast is sending the info to Tribune, then they will prolly be added in the near future. I have not heard of a Carriage Agreement between Comcast and Cox for Travel Channel HD. E! HD doesn't launch until December 8th (along with G4, the Versus/Golf Channel Split, and Style HD).

Please let me know if/when any of these are live and I will update the first post.

It's looking more and more like a Tivo mistake. I can't find these channels in any guide online, not even zap2it which is what Tivo uses. I don't know why it thinks these channels are added, it did this with 2 other HD channels a few months ago that never existed in the lineup but those at least showed up on zap2it. Emails to Comcast inform me of nothing, pretty much saying they don't say anything about channels being announced. Argh...

SMWinnie

11-19-08, 06:43 PM

Meanwhile, boo us, we're still having to run a lot of 4:3 content on the HD service, we have ceased the expansion to 14:9 and are just sticking it in the center as 4:3 content. Too many people got tired of their heads getting chopped off.My two-year-old is watching today's Dragon Tales at the moment, and it looks like a 14:9 zoom. (This is 23.1 via Comcast.) The OTA 23.2 feed looks normal.

Switched back to zoom?

jefbal99

11-19-08, 06:44 PM

It's looking more and more like a Tivo mistake. I can't find these channels in any guide online, not even zap2it which is what Tivo uses. I don't know why it thinks these channels are added, it did this with 2 other HD channels a few months ago that never existed in the lineup but those at least showed up on zap2it. Emails to Comcast inform me of nothing, pretty much saying they don't say anything about channels being announced. Argh...

Not quite so sure, there is a post in the Programming forum that Travel HD is getting added out west in San Francisco

heed316

11-19-08, 07:39 PM

Not quite so sure, there is a post in the Programming forum that Travel HD is getting added out west in San Francisco

We theoretically should have the space to add it here as I know that 2 of the local access analog stations have been removed, or at least weren't there the last time I checked. If another analog was removed then that would open up the space for the 9 HD stations. We shall see.

limiter

11-20-08, 08:44 AM

I previously posted the East Lansing Comcast clear QAM digital channels, but many are wrong now. I thought some people here might be interested to see the updated list. These do not require a cable card to access or HD service, just standard cable and a Digital TV with ATSC Tuner in Comcast East Lansing:

18.1 - ABC HD (ABC53)
18.2 - FOX HD (Fox47)
19.1 - CBS HD (WLNS)
19.2 - WKAR HD
19.3 - WKAR Create
19.4 - WKAR World
20.1 - NBC HD (WILX)
20.2 - WILX Weather
84.1 - TBS HD
85.1 - ?
87.1, 87.2 - Local/Government
87.3 - WKAR Create (again)
87.4 - WKAR World (again)
87.5 - ?
87.6, 87.7, 87.8, 87.9 - Local/Government
87.10 - Color Bars
88.1 - WGN (I was unable to determine if this was in HD)
89.1 - Fox SD
89.2 - ABC SD
89.3 - iON TV
89.4 - My18
89.5 - NBC SD
89.6 - CBS SD
89.7 - WKAR Kids
89.8 - CW
100.1 - Local/Government

For those of you who care you can use a TivoHD without cable cards or paying Comcast for Digital cable or HD service, but you will not get program data. Tivo does not allow you to map clear QAM channels to specific stations. That said the channels Tivo can see have different sub numbers. For East Lansing:

18-3 - ABC HD
18-5 - FOX HD
19-2 - WKAR HD
19-3 - CBS HD
19-5 - WKAR Create
19-6 - WKAR World
20-3 - NBC HD
20-7 - WILX Weather

I have not figured out all the other clear QAM channels for the Tivo but you can see they can vary in different amounts from TV channel scans. Two different TVs verified the first list.

heed316

11-20-08, 10:11 AM

Any word on more HD coming to the area. My Tivo once again pissed me off as apparently Comcast lied to Tribune about the listings as it said it added some HD channels, none of which are received as of yet. I'm hoping it's just a day or two before they show up, but I'm not holding my breath as they do get the lineup and lineup changes wrong it seems quite a bit. Anyways, the HD channels it claims it added are as follows:

183 Travel HD
186 Bio HD
210 Green HD
214 Fox News Channel HD
221 Lifetime Movie Network HD
223 Speed HD
224 FX HD
225 E! HD
227 Toon HD

Like I said, none of these tune in. I'm hoping against hope that these are for real channels as I'd like to get some more HD here.

This morning I got a message on my Tivo informing that all of these channels have been deleted from my lineup. Turns out it was just a lineup mistake :(

garybliev

11-21-08, 11:05 AM

My two-year-old is watching today's Dragon Tales at the moment, and it looks like a 14:9 zoom. (This is 23.1 via Comcast.) The OTA 23.2 feed looks normal.

Switched back to zoom?

No.

jefbal99

11-23-08, 03:49 PM

WLAJ dropping the HD ball again...

MLS Cup final not in HD, called WWMT and they informed me that they do not control the HD feed for WLAJ on the weekends. Told me to call 394-5353, but got a voicemail.

I've switched over to WOTV out of GR and have HD goodness

DanMacMan

11-25-08, 11:17 AM

Funny you mention this...

During the Michigan-Ohio State game Saturday WLAJ dropped the HD feed to show the damned Daily 3 lotto numbers. I waited about 5 minutes and they neglected to switch-back. I called WWMT and within seconds the HD was back on.

WLAJ dropping the HD ball again...

MLS Cup final not in HD, called WWMT and they informed me that they do not control the HD feed for WLAJ on the weekends. Told me to call 394-5353, but got a voicemail.

I've switched over to WOTV out of GR and have HD goodness

jefbal99

11-25-08, 02:53 PM

the3dolla

11-25-08, 09:23 PM

DonInJackson

11-26-08, 09:06 AM

Gary, do you know anything about this company and whether WKAR will be participating http://www.updatelogic.com/

According to their website they have agreements with TV makers, PBS stations and cable networks to deliver software updates to digital TVs for the TV manufacturers. The updates would be delivered OTA, cable, or internet.

Matt L

11-26-08, 01:56 PM

Gary, not your department but a question. WRAK isn't carrying the Soundstage special with Faith Hill? How come?

I checked the national PBS directory and it appears none of the Michigan station are showing it, at lest in the two week time frame it checks -- same with my TiVo. Any idea why?

wb8tgy

11-26-08, 04:25 PM

Matt L,

My wife noticed in the WKAR guide we get in the mail that the Faith Hill Soundstage program was listed. I'll have to look at it to see what date and time they had it listed for.

garybliev

11-29-08, 04:30 PM

Gary, do you know anything about this company and whether WKAR will be participating http://www.updatelogic.com/

I do know about the company; we are not participating.

garybliev

11-29-08, 04:35 PM

Gary, not your department but a question. WRAK isn't carrying the Soundstage special with Faith Hill? How come?

Any idea why?

Faith Hill, Joy to the World: A Soundstage Special Event is scheduled for: Thursday, December 18, 10PM

Matt L

11-30-08, 12:57 AM

Thanks Gary!

jefbal99

11-30-08, 07:32 PM

Hey -

I just had a friend get DirecTV in East Lansing, everything is great; lots of HD except for the #$$#%#$ local channels! Sure enough www.directv.com/locals shows NO locals available for East Lansing, MI

I'm guessing he'd get most of his locals from Lansing except for NBC in Ogondago or whatever and CBS in Okemos.

Is this for real? No HD (retransmission rights) for Directv?

What the heck!!!!

Thanks, Nick

None of the Lansing DMA has an HD spot beam for locals from D*. Check out the first post in this thread and you will see the area that is covered by the Lansing DMA. Hoping for Q1 2009

the3dolla

11-30-08, 08:32 PM

GomerP

11-30-08, 08:40 PM

And here, I thought the Battle Creek area sucked because they didn't have NBC-HD until just before the Olympics. Can't believe such a big/populous area such as Lansing has no HD from DirecTV; it is the Capitol after all!!

I think we are without HD tonight for the football because of the winter weather warning. Now I have Comcast so I'm not sure if DTV is different... but I know right now that I have a craptastic SD picture on Comcast when typically I have HD NBC.

Now that I have an HD set... they had better fix this. What garbage.

alig04

11-30-08, 11:05 PM

jefbal99

12-01-08, 08:41 AM

And here, I thought the Battle Creek area sucked because they didn't have NBC-HD until just before the Olympics. Can't believe such a big/populous area such as Lansing has no HD from DirecTV; it is the Capitol after all!!

Lansing is a dieing market. Our DMA ranking has been dropping every year, there just aren't enough people and big spenders in the DMA for DirecTV to dedicate time and resources to a spot beam when there are more profitable markets out there. They also need to get markets off from the bird at 72.5.

DirecTV has the Lansing HD feeds uplinked, you can tell by watching the SD channels as the SD feed is just the HD, center cut. Easiest to notice on ABC when the ESPN bottom line is chopped on both ends.

Hopefully in Q1 2009, we will see a spot pointed at us and some locals fire up. I need it for my basement project and to replace my ****** h20-600 that is always on the fritz.

And boo to WILX for not making the investment in more hd equipment, last nights SNF was in horrible SD (seemed worse than normal) because of the weather bug.

I applaud both CBS and Fox for showing the weather bug during commercials, but not the NFL games in the afternoon hours.

jefbal99

12-01-08, 12:04 PM

MOJO is officially gone. On Comcast channel 206 in the Detroit area, the screen says:

"MOJO HD is no longer available. Please stand by for Versus HD which will be available on this channel December 8th, 2008. Questions or Comments, Call 1-888-COMCAST."

Channel 207 will become the dedicated Golf Channel HD, also on December 8th, 2008.

Ken H has noted in a few places that Mojo died today, what is replacing it on the Lansing system?

Detroit is getting Versus HD, others have reported seeing HDNet or MGM HD in the slot.

heed316

12-01-08, 12:41 PM

Ken H has noted in a few places that Mojo died today, what is replacing it on the Lansing system?

Detroit is getting Versus HD, others have reported seeing HDNet or MGM HD in the slot.

I got a message on my Tivo this morning saying that the channel had been deleted. Nothing is in that slot as of my last checking it, just an empty channel.

jefbal99

12-01-08, 01:29 PM

I got a message on my Tivo this morning saying that the channel had been deleted. Nothing is in that slot as of my last checking it, just an empty channel.

Can anybody with a moto box please post what they have in the Mojo slot?

Lansing and Grand Rapids typically follow Detroit's lead.

wb8tgy

12-01-08, 01:54 PM

From WHTV's web site:

"My18 Goes Digital-Only on December 1
As part of the nation's transition to digital television, WHTV, My18 Lansing/Jackson, will end its analog over the air broadcast on December 1, 2008.

Cable, DirectTV, and Dish Network subscribers will not be affected.If you use an antenna to receive WHTV and have a digital television set -- or a digital converter box for your analog set -- you will not be affected either.

If you watch WHTV on an analog set with an antenna, you must buy a digital converter box for that TV to continue receiving WHTV. These converter boxes are available wherever electronics are sold. "

I wonder if they plan on going HD anytime soon?

Trip in VA

12-01-08, 02:09 PM

They might want to let the FCC know that. They noted it in their 387 a month ago, but didn't file the appropriate notification with the FCC as they were supposed to, not as far as I can tell anyway...

- Trip

jefbal99

12-01-08, 02:12 PM

I wonder if they plan on going HD anytime soon?

I emailed them a bunch over the last year and never get replies. I highly doubt it, but enjoy being wrong

heed316

12-01-08, 03:07 PM

Can anybody with a moto box please post what they have in the Mojo slot?

Lansing and Grand Rapids typically follow Detroit's lead.

We got a moto box here too, it's not HD but it picks up the channels audio for the HD versions. When attempting to tune to 206 where Mojo was, it simply goes to 207 where VersusGolf is now. So of right now there is nothing there. An email to Comcast neither admitted nor denied they did anything, so they were as always no help.

jefbal99

12-01-08, 03:42 PM

We got a moto box here too, it's not HD but it picks up the channels audio for the HD versions. When attempting to tune to 206 where Mojo was, it simply goes to 207 where VersusGolf is now. So of right now there is nothing there. An email to Comcast neither admitted nor denied they did anything, so they were as always no help.

Does 206 still exist in the guide?

TTRider

12-01-08, 05:48 PM

MOJO no longer exists in the Lansing area. Our DVR just skips from 205 to 206 - and yes, it is no longer in the guide. No replacement of any kind.

Kudos to Comcast!

jefbal99

12-01-08, 08:04 PM

Holy hell, WLAJ has an HD graphics generator of some sort online. Watching Shrek the halls in HD and the WLAJ bug is overlayed the ABC HD feed

Falcon_77

12-01-08, 08:43 PM

Has WHTV actually ended their analog broadcast yet or are they waiting until the late hours?

stewa

12-02-08, 10:04 AM

Holy hell, WLAJ has an HD graphics generator of some sort online. Watching Shrek the halls in HD and the WLAJ bug is overlayed the ABC HD feed

I happened to tune in the new Christina Applegate show last night on ABC and couldn't believe seeing this local station logo in big bright colors being displayed in addition to the ABC logo (on the opposite side of the screen) I wasn't on the channel for long, but I also noticed the logo remained during a commercial. Are they just testing something? Did someone mess up? I can't believe that ABC or the commercial sponsor would be too happy with this. Maybe I am missing something. All I know it was so distracting (bright colors that you could not see through) that I would not have continued watching even if it were a show I wanted to see.:eek:

jefbal99

12-02-08, 11:09 AM

I happened to tune in the new Christina Applegate show last night on ABC and couldn't believe seeing this local station logo in big bright colors being displayed in addition to the ABC logo (on the opposite side of the screen) I wasn't on the channel for long, but I also noticed the logo remained during a commercial. Are they just testing something? Did someone mess up? I can't believe that ABC or the commercial sponsor would be too happy with this. Maybe I am missing something. All I know it was so distracting (bright colors that you could not see through) that I would not have continued watching even if it were a show I wanted to see.:eek:

I'm guessing that they are still working out the kinks. I know that WILX can do their bug in the NBC HD feed, but it disappears after a short time. Hopefully WLAJ will be the same way. I agree it was bright and not transparent, however, for how shoddy WLAJ typically is, I was impressed. It didn't bother me as I was able to look right past it during both Shrek and Grinch.

garybliev

12-02-08, 01:33 PM

This transition to high def is giving me cramps. Comcast in Lansing finally gets WKAR TV in high def but it's a crap shoot as to when it airs: This Old House Thu night - high def (sometimes), then on Saturday, same show airs in hight def (maybe).

I've had Michigan weather more dependable!

Al

It's not a Comcast thing, Comcast has been carrying WKAR-DT in HD for a couple of years.

WKAR delays This Old House Thursday nights from the network by an hour. If we make a mistake, we do not have a second chance to get another copy. Last week the HD record didn't happen and we aired the SD version.

The weekend This Old House is "live" from the net and should be in HD. Has it not been?

wb8tgy

12-03-08, 08:02 AM

Falcon_77,

I did check for WHTV analog last night, and it is gone. I don't know when they turned it off. WHTV-DT is still running just the MyTV network in 480i, with no sub channels.

jefbal99

12-03-08, 09:44 AM

I happened to tune in the new Christina Applegate show last night on ABC and couldn't believe seeing this local station logo in big bright colors being displayed in addition to the ABC logo (on the opposite side of the screen) I wasn't on the channel for long, but I also noticed the logo remained during a commercial. Are they just testing something? Did someone mess up? I can't believe that ABC or the commercial sponsor would be too happy with this. Maybe I am missing something. All I know it was so distracting (bright colors that you could not see through) that I would not have continued watching even if it were a show I wanted to see.:eek:

Possible that we might be seeing HD crawls and weather bugs from WLAJ in the near future? The GR thread notes that WWMT is getting that with the Feb 17th cutover and WLAJ usually follows WWMTs lead.

Falcon_77

12-03-08, 10:57 AM

I did check for WHTV analog last night, and it is gone. I don't know when they turned it off. WHTV-DT is still running just the MyTV network in 480i, with no sub channels.

Thanks. They would do well to update their website soon, but not many broadcasters do a good job with them.

garybliev

12-04-08, 10:00 AM

Lansing is a dieing market. Our DMA ranking has been dropping every year, there just aren't enough people and big spenders in the DMA for DirecTV to dedicate time and resources to a spot beam when there are more profitable markets out there. They also need to get markets off from the bird at 72.5.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6619558.html
excerpt:

DirecTV Rolls Out Local PBS Stations in HD
Launching News Service in 14 Markets
By Linda Moss -- Multichannel News, 12/3/2008 1:03:00 PM

DirecTV Wednesday began launching local public TV stations in HDTV across the country, according to company officials.

DirecTV is continuing its HDTV expansion with the launch of local Public Broadcasting Service stations in 14 markets and will continue to roll out additional markets through the end of the year and in 2009—ahead of the Feb. 17 digital transition.

Local PBS stations in HD are now available in: Cedar Rapids-Waterloo-Iowa City-Dubuque, Iowa; Chicago; Davenport, Iowa-Rock Island-Moline, Ill.; Detroit; Houston; Los Angeles; Miami-Fort Lauderdale; Minneapolis-St. Paul; New York; Norfolk-Newport News, Va.; Phoenix; Portland, Ore.; Rochester, N.Y.; and Waco-Temple-Bryan, Texas

----

jefbal99

12-04-08, 11:48 AM

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6619558.html
excerpt:

DirecTV Rolls Out Local PBS Stations in HD
Launching News Service in 14 Markets
By Linda Moss -- Multichannel News, 12/3/2008 1:03:00 PM

DirecTV Wednesday began launching local public TV stations in HDTV across the country, according to company officials.

DirecTV is continuing its HDTV expansion with the launch of local Public Broadcasting Service stations in 14 markets and will continue to roll out additional markets through the end of the year and in 2009—ahead of the Feb. 17 digital transition.

Local PBS stations in HD are now available in: Cedar Rapids-Waterloo-Iowa City-Dubuque, Iowa; Chicago; Davenport, Iowa-Rock Island-Moline, Ill.; Detroit; Houston; Los Angeles; Miami-Fort Lauderdale; Minneapolis-St. Paul; New York; Norfolk-Newport News, Va.; Phoenix; Portland, Ore.; Rochester, N.Y.; and Waco-Temple-Bryan, Texas

----

When Lansing gets a spot beam, I expect WKAR to be live :)

cornell_lingus

12-04-08, 05:24 PM

Versus and the Golf Channel have their own HD channels now, no more sharing. Versus HD is 603 and Golf is 605 on Direct.

jefbal99

12-04-08, 06:35 PM

Versus and the Golf Channel have their own HD channels now, no more sharing. Versus HD is 603 and Golf is 605 on Direct.

Cept neither is showing any HD properly. Last nights WEC show on Versus was only SD. Over on DBSTalk, people with D* and cable reported that VSGLF had it in HD properly

jefbal99

12-05-08, 01:14 PM

Emailed WLNS engineering this morning and got a reply on their infrastructure upgrades (apparently he reads AVSForum, i got a good laugh out of his last line)

My email...
Well, its been almost a year since we first emailed about the upgrades at WLNS. Just wondering if there is still a track for WLNS to output DD 5.1? Any other info on upgrades that you can provide?

The Reply...
We’re running on the SD portion of our new system, vendor thinks they finally have the kinks worked out in the HD, testing soon.

C’mon wlns get with the 31st century! Install holographic 4D!

I'm trying to pry a bit more information about what the new system means for HD...

FOXGuy72

12-09-08, 02:38 AM

garybliev

12-09-08, 08:41 AM

Great forum guys. Long time viewer, first time poster. I have a question that needs answered & working at a local TV station myself (my username will tell you which one), I can't believe I don't have the answer. I pull in all of my HD's at home on an antenna. At midnight, WKAR 23.1-23.4 goes dark. However, WKAR DT is on Comcast after midnight. Can anyone shed some light as to why it's not on air after midnight off an antenna but is on cable?

The cost to be on cable over night is zero as we have a direct feed to Comcast. The cost to be on-the-air overnight for broadcast is substantial in staffing, and electricity.

We will revisit this decision after we convert from channel 55 to 40 and after we construct a replacement tower next year.

jefbal99

12-09-08, 08:55 AM

Great forum guys. Long time viewer, first time poster. I have a question that needs answered & working at a local TV station myself (my username will tell you which one), I can't believe I don't have the answer. I pull in all of my HD's at home on an antenna. At midnight, WKAR 23.1-23.4 goes dark. However, WKAR DT is on Comcast after midnight. Can anyone shed some light as to why it's not on air after midnight off an antenna but is on cable?

Welcome to the thread, wondering if I could ask you a few questions about WSYM?

Feel free to answer if you can

1. Any plans to do anything with 47.2? It's currently just an SD mirror of 47.1.

2. Any plans for HD crawls or Bugs in the near future so that we won't lose Fox network HD during weather related issues?

3. What is the best number to get in contact with WSYM Master Control 24x7 if there is an issue with the OTA feed?

4. Anything new, fun, or exciting we should expect from WSYM in the next few months?

Trip in VA

12-09-08, 10:54 AM

2. Any plans for HD crawls or Bugs in the near future so that we won't lose Fox network HD during weather related issues?

I'm not FoxGuy72, but...

WSYM's hands are tied because the Fox splicer doesn't allow crawls to be overlaid on the HD signal. However, Fox has announced that it will be giving each Fox station two new splicers (the second is for redundancy) which will contain the ability to do crawls. This is supposed to happen by next Fall but we'll see if Fox manages to make it happen.

- Trip

jefbal99

12-09-08, 12:41 PM

I'm not FoxGuy72, but...

WSYM's hands are tied because the Fox splicer doesn't allow crawls to be overlaid on the HD signal. However, Fox has announced that it will be giving each Fox station two new splicers (the second is for redundancy) which will contain the ability to do crawls. This is supposed to happen by next Fall but we'll see if Fox manages to make it happen.

- Trip

I completely forgot about the splicer

FOXGuy72

12-09-08, 03:40 PM

Welcome to the thread, wondering if I could ask you a few questions about WSYM?

Feel free to answer if you can

1. Any plans to do anything with 47.2? It's currently just an SD mirror of 47.1.

2. Any plans for HD crawls or Bugs in the near future so that we won't lose Fox network HD during weather related issues?

3. What is the best number to get in contact with WSYM Master Control 24x7 if there is an issue with the OTA feed?

4. Anything new, fun, or exciting we should expect from WSYM in the next few months?

I'll answer what I can.
1. There were plans to put Motor Trend TV on 47.2 in 2009. But due to budget constraints, it's now been moved to 2010. So, 47.2 will still continue to be an SD mirror at least for another year.

2. This has already been covered..splicer issue.

3. 484-7747. I'm not sure if giving out the direct number to MCR would be allowed. So for now, the office line will have to do. When calling after hours, just press 6 for the engineering department & that should take you to MCR.

4. New & exciting things coming to FOX 47 in the next few months? Nothing significant that I know of but you never know that could change.

FOXGuy72

12-09-08, 03:40 PM

The cost to be on cable over night is zero as we have a direct feed to Comcast. The cost to be on-the-air overnight for broadcast is substantial in staffing, and electricity.

We will revisit this decision after we convert from channel 55 to 40 and after we construct a replacement tower next year.

Thanks for clearing that up Gary.

wb8tgy

12-10-08, 08:34 AM

Thanks FoxGuy72 and Gary for the updates.

Good to hear FOX47 has plans for the sub channel. Seems dumb to me to keep running the main programing stream in SD on 47-2. I had never heard of Motor Trend TV and after doing a quick search on the internet on it, I don't think I will watch it much, but it's great to see something new I can't get on another station. Hope you guys can get it running before 2010.

DonInJackson

12-10-08, 10:47 AM

FOXGuy72,
Maybe you can get an answer from FOX Network for the following question which I submitted to FOX last year and never got an answer...

The FOX logo superimposed on their network programming is always messed up. The bottom half is transparent, but the top half is always pixelated with black splotches. More recently when a program starts FOX puts up a "FOX HD" logo that is transparent but then after a few seconds switches to the "FOX" logo that I mentioned above. WHY is FOX doing that!! It's very annoying to see that botched up logo on the screen....

Trip in VA

12-10-08, 12:26 PM

DonInJackson

12-10-08, 02:17 PM

I'm no expert on the matter, but it sounds to me almost as though the copy of the Fox logo loaded in the splicer itself corrupted. I can't say I recall seeing anything like that on my local station.

FoxGuy72 would be better explaining it.

- Trip

Another interesting fact that I forgot to mention... The FOX logo is perfect (not pixelated) when it's during a live show like American Idol, but for pre-recorded shows like Bones, 24 or House the logo is messed up. Go figure?

Trip in VA

12-10-08, 02:25 PM

See, from what I understand, the splicer has the ability to overlay a bug on the local level. Some stations have their own logos loaded in, otherwise it's a generic blue "FOX" logo. Sometimes Fox feeds the network feed with their own logo, and other times they activate the splicer's bug insertion function.

Does that make my thought about it being a corrupt logo in the splicer make more sense to you?

- Trip

hunter65

12-10-08, 09:56 PM

garybliev

12-11-08, 12:15 PM

I was wondering when we might see some HD programing on PBS WTVS via D*. Someone mentioned because they are in pledge mode right now, no hd programming is available right now. I don't understand that bit. Also, I remember this channel being available in 5.1 a couple of years ago. The last year or so, this has not been available. Can anyone shed any light on this issue also.

Thank you.

You might want to ask this question in the Detroit forum (last page is at)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453486&page=227

Or just give WTVS a call or email: (248) 305-3788 - email@dptv.org

hunter65

12-11-08, 10:10 PM

Thanks Gary

bicker1

12-14-08, 08:28 AM

Following this message posted in a non-local thread, earlier....My local PBS afilliate recently started offering This Old House and others in high def, and as soon as it started, it ended - station guide says HD but it's now in SD.

Call Comcast: Not us, we can only deliver what PBS gives us.

Call WKAR PBS afilliate: Not us, we tape those shows in high def and broadcast the same.

Is this just the way it's going to be until everything is HD? Looked great while it lasted, though.Consistent with this message posted recently in this thread....I was wondering when we might see some HD programing on PBS WTVS via D*. Someone mentioned because they are in pledge mode right now, no hd programming is available right now. I don't understand that bit. Also, I remember this channel being available in 5.1 a couple of years ago. The last year or so, this has not been available. Can anyone shed any light on this issue also.

Thank you.

I suspect that both of these reports are consistent with what we're experiencing here in Boston, from WGBH itself. When WGBH first started offering an HD feed, they presented the national PBS HD feed, rather than an HD feed of the WGBH program schedule. They simply passed the national feed through. Earlier this year, they switched to offering their own HD feed, however, they do not have the proper equipment to record HD programming from the national feed and rebroadcast it later. So when they schedule a program on their own program schedule to be broadcast at the same time as when the national PBS feed broadcasts it, they switch to the national PBS feed, and therefore the program is in HD. Whenever they schedule a program on their own program schedule to be broadcast at some time other than when it is broadcast on the national PBS feed, the program is broadcast in upconverted SD, again, because that's all their equipment can handle. Pledge breaks are, obviously, local, and are not supported by the national PBS feed, and so anything broadcast with pledge breaks will naturally be upconverted SD.

I suspect that the provision of full-time HD is obviously not a high priority for some PBS affiliates. I would be very interested in learning whether this is the case for other PBS affiliates, or rather is just a reflection of my own affiliate's perspective.

garybliev

12-15-08, 09:19 AM

WKAR is airing HD content from PBS when the content is in HD -simultaneous- with the local schedule. We have changed our local schedule to more closely match the national schedule, but there are exceptions such as Thursday night when we have had local/Michigan programming in the evening for over 15 years.

PBS is converting the national feeds from SD centric to HD centric this month. WKAR will have to change our program schedule even more the first week of January to match. For example, where there were two national kids schedules to choose from in the day-time, there will only be one. PBS is also eliminating the Central Time, Mountain Time, and Alaska/Hawaii time zone (TZ) delays to make room for the HD carriers on the satellite.

We do delay This Old House, locally in HD, but as I mentioned before this is on a one hour delay from the network, if there are any errors in transmission or recording, we don't have a second chance. (The TZ delays were only in standard-definition.)

As to HD being a priority. Staying on the air and getting converted has been the priority. We have spend over $3,000,000 to convert to digital transmission including -limited- HD record and play capability. We are projected to spend over 1,300,000 more this year as we convert our analog transmitter to digital and convert it from channel 23 to 40 as well as construct a replacement broadcast tower.

We have two (mutually exclusive) grant requests pending to allow us to increase our HD record capability, each request asks for $294,000 with a required match of $294,000. If fully funded, we would replace our analog master control with digital, add additional HD inputs to the server, add additional HD/SD outputs, and add 56 TB of storage to an array that only holds 5 TB. (5TB is not a lot when you do the math: SD content is recorded at 10MB, HD content from the network is recorded at 18MB)

We have two more grants requested beyond that:

$300,000 requiring a $300,000 match for HD/SD cameras for our studio. Part of a phased in replacement for local production. Our cameras are 17 years old and are desperate for replacement.

$290,000 requiring a $97,000 match for Channel 40 maximization. We have requested a power increase from the FCC to allow us to transmit with 425,000 watts in a directional pattern (we have to protect 39 and 41 in the Detroit area). We will have to replace our main antenna which is omnidirectional.

The December pledge ended yesterday, I haven't seen the numbers but I expect that it was much behind goal. We could use some help meeting our operating expenses, let alone the capital costs.

---

Next up on the transition schedule:

We have filed a STA with the FCC to turn off analog on January 14, 2009 (last day of analog broadcast will be 1/13/09.... the last program on the last day will be a retrospective of WKAR's "First 50"

Our announcements on-the-air (at least four times per day) regarding our shut-down begin today.

We are participating in the local DTV soft-test on December 18, 2008, 6:09PM. WKAR is hosting the call-in for viewers that may have questions.

January 7th - January 13th we will run a continuous crawl on the analog channel about the shut-down.

January 7th, Local 1 hour program about the conversion.

There MAY be another coordinated soft-test in Lansing on January 15th.