Lansing, MI - HDTV [Text View] - Page 7

jefbal99

12-26-08, 11:47 AM

Detroit areas are reporting Travel Channel HD (183) MGM HD (216) Fuse HD (250) IFC HD (260) and WE HD (261)

Any of those showing on any of the Lansing systems?

Also, I'm missing a few guide identifiers for Comcast in the first post rundown.

181 – NFLHD – The NFL Network HD
191 – DSCHD – Discovery Channel HD
192 – TLCHD – The Learning Channel HD
193 – APHD – Animal Planet HD
194 – SCFHD – SciFi HD
195 – USAHD – USA Network HD
196 – TBSHD – TBS Superstation HD
197 – FOODD – The Food Network HD
198 – HGTVD – Home and Garden Television HD
199 – NGCHD – National Geographic HD
200 – A&EHD – A&E HD
201 – FSNHD – Fox Sports Network Detroit HD
202 – ESPND – ESPN HD
203 – ES2HD – ESPN2 HD
204 – TNTHD – TNT HD
205 – HDT – HD Theatre
206 – – The Golf Channel HD
207 – VSHD – Versus HD
208 – UHD – Universal HD
209 – – Palladia HD (CMT/MTV/VH1)
210 – GRNHD – Planet Green HD
211 – SCIHD – Science Channel HD
212 – HISTD – History Channel HD
213 – CNNHD – CNN HD
214 – – Fox News HD
215 – HBOHD – HBO HD
217 – MAXHD – Cinemax HD
218 – SHOHD – Showtime HD
219 – S-HD – Starz! HD
221 – LMNHD – Lifetime Movie Network HD
222 – AMCHD – AMC HD
223 – – Speed HD
224 – FXHD – FX HD
225 – E!HD – E! HD
227 – – Cartoon Netowrk HD
229 – ABCFD – ABC Family HD
230 – DISHD – Disney Channel HD
231 – WLAJD – ABC Affiliate
232 – WILXD – NBC Affiliate
233 – WLNSD – CBS Affiliate
234 – WSYMD – Fox Affiliate
240 – WKARD – PBS Affiliate
249 – WILXW – Local Weather (SD)
256 – HDOD – HD On Demand
256 – BTNHD – Big Ten Network HD
300 – HBOHD – HBO HD
319 – MAXHD – Cinemax HD
339 – SHOHD – Showtime HD
369 – S-HD – Starz! HD

TTRider

12-26-08, 12:13 PM

No Travel, MGM HD, Fuse HD, IFC HD or WE HD on the DeWitt area line-up for Comcast.

heed316

12-27-08, 10:49 PM

No Travel, MGM HD, Fuse HD, IFC HD or WE HD on the DeWitt area line-up for Comcast.

All those are showing up here in Brooklyn now...that makes like 13 new HD's since the 18th here!

EDIT: The channels are showing up on the comcast box, but my Tivo has yet to add them. I can tune directly to them but no channel info on the Tivo yet...

garybliev

12-29-08, 09:18 AM

My signal strength on 10.1, 10.2, 47.1, and 53.1 is 95 to 100% according to the signal meter on my HR20. 6.1 is usally very jumpy. I sometimes get a lot of pixilation and it oftem becomes unwatchable when it's windy. The strongest signals strength I register is 65-70%.

I use a Terk TV5 for OTA. I think the problem has something to do with WLNS antenna being in the middle of the city while the other stations antennas are located in rural areas.

I ran into that antenna at a viewers house on the west side of Lansing, it is actually very directional, you will need to change the physical aiming to receive WLNS and WKAR.

Having said that, for an indoor antenna I'd suggest a different Terk antenna the HDTVa which has both UHF and VHF elements. (WILX will move to channel 10 for digital 2/18/09)

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Antenna-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2/ref=pd_cp_e_1?pf_rd_p=413863501&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000069106&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1JHYA13845HVHR7EEVF6

heed316

12-29-08, 12:07 PM

All those are showing up here in Brooklyn now...that makes like 13 new HD's since the 18th here!

EDIT: The channels are showing up on the comcast box, but my Tivo has yet to add them. I can tune directly to them but no channel info on the Tivo yet...

Also now seeing Toon Disney HD on channel 238 and ESPN News HD on 257

HillsdaleBob

12-29-08, 11:04 PM

Interesting. You are having problems in Mason, another viewer earlier noted problems in Jackson. Power wise there should absolutely be no problem receiving the WLNS signal. They are transmitting with 1,000kW on channel 59, compare this to WKAR which has 55kW on channel 55. Even when WLNS goes to 1/2 power, they'll still have 500kW, more than sufficent signal to get to Hillsdale county, let alone Mason.

In your case I'd have to wonder about:

Antenna aiming. Check http://www.antennaweb.org for directions
Antenna itself. Do you have a pre-amplifier on the antenna, those are notorious for being over driven. Does your antenna look like a flying saucer?
Receiver: Maybe the 1,000 kW is overloading the receiver? The power reduction might actually help.

I'm pulling in WLNS-DT over the air with no problem and I'm in central Hillsdale County. I'm using a $50 Radio Shack amplified indoor/outdoor antenna (model 15-2186) mounted out on my deck pointed toward the north. I sure hope I can continue to get WLNS-DT after they go to 1/2 power. I can not pick up their analog signal at all.

stewa

12-30-08, 11:33 AM

Or anyone else who might know. After the February transition, how will your station number show? Will it still show as 23.1 or will it show 40. Just curious. Thanks.:)

Trip in VA

12-30-08, 11:45 AM

If they follow the PSIP spec, it will be 23-1.

- Trip

the_tick444

12-30-08, 12:19 PM

garybliev

12-30-08, 03:42 PM

Or anyone else who might know. After the February transition, how will your station number show? Will it still show as 23.1 or will it show 40. Just curious. Thanks.:)

With rare exception, all stations are required to maintain the same "major channel number" regardless of actual RF channel.

After 2/18/09:

Call Major.minor RF channel

WHTV 18.1 34
WKAR 23.1 - .4 40
WLNS 6.1 36
WILX 10.1 & .2 10
WSYM 47.1 & .2 38
WLAJ 53.1 & .2 51

bmoney017

12-30-08, 05:04 PM

Well we will see, but I just scheduled my install for ATT U-verse. It is now available in the Lansing area.

There are a couple promotional deals, but I was more interested in getting away from Comcast than anything.

After reading about Uverse coming to the Lansing area a few months back, its great to see it finally available. Post back here once you get it installed. I am curious to see how the install, HD picture quality, and things like that are, compared to comcast

pierceive

12-31-08, 07:56 AM

The following stations have now been added in Meridian (Comcast):

216 MGM HD
238 Toon Disney HD
250 FUSE HD
257 ESPN News HD
260 IFC HD
261 WE HD

Interestingly, Comcast just sent out an updated Channel Line-Up (available online at http://www.comcast.com/michigan/) for East Lansing/Meridian, but it only includes last week's HD additions (FX, Cartoon Network, etc) and not the stations above. Despite the packaging in Detroit, we didn't get Travel HD.

TTRider

12-31-08, 04:15 PM

jefbal99

01-02-09, 09:56 AM

I'll update the first post with the Comcast adds. As always, it depends on the headend that you are connected to.

I had an odd occurrence with my D* boxes yesterday. When I attempted to tune the ATSC tuner to WLAJ or WOTV (both ABC) all I would get is search for signal on OTA on both my HR20-100 and H20-600. I busted out my old antenna and hooked it directly to my DLP and was able to successfully tune WLAJ for the MSU game. After the game was over, both D* boxes tuned in both channels fine for the Rose Bowl game.

Funky...

Found that the neighbors had an H20-100 and no OTA HD, so I donated the old antenna to them and they not get the locals in HD

mathwhiz

01-02-09, 09:57 AM

Is anyone else showing their OTA WLNS-HD on channel 59-1 instead of 6-1?

jefbal99

01-02-09, 10:38 AM

Is anyone else showing their OTA WLNS-HD on channel 59-1 instead of 6-1?

59-1 is the actual digital channel that WLNS broadcasts from. It is masked to the old analog broadcast channel of 6-1 so viewers don't get confused.

jefbal99

01-02-09, 12:08 PM

HD LiL from DirecTV in 2009 for Lansing...Maybe

Satelliteracer has posted over on DBSTalk (Satelliteracer) that in 2009 an unnamed Michigan DMA will be getting HD LiLs.

There are 4 DMAs in Michigan w/o HD LiL...Lansing, Alpena, Marquette, and Sault Ste. Maire. Lansing is in the top ten DMAs w/o HD LiLs and DirecTV has them uplinked. You can see from watching the SD feeds that they are center cuts of the HD channels. Best example is ABC during an HD sporting event, the ESPN Bottom Line is chopped on either end losing what sport is being discussed on the left and the ESPNHD logo on the right.

Hopefully we will be seeing them lit up sooner rather than later...

mathwhiz

01-02-09, 12:54 PM

59-1 is the actual digital channel that WLNS broadcasts from. It is masked to the old analog broadcast channel of 6-1 so viewers don't get confused.

I understand that - and up until today it has showed up on my TV and TiVo as 6-1, but this morning when I tuned to 6-1 it jumped to 59-1, it seems like they aren't sending the correct PSIP with their signal.

jefbal99

01-02-09, 12:59 PM

I understand that - and up until today it has showed up on my TV and TiVo as 6-1, but this morning when I tuned to 6-1 it jumped to 59-1, it seems like they aren't sending the correct PSIP with their signal.

That would be my thought too

garybliev

01-02-09, 02:07 PM

That would be my thought too

Their PSIP is showing major channel 59, minor channel 1, with digital channel 36. WLNS has been having PSIP problems since at least 12/31. If they are like us, getting tech support to fix someone on a holiday is somewhat difficult, hence the complete absence of wkar.org, since that same day. (So, I'm not about to cast stones at glass houses)

Channel 3
Service Name: WLNS-HD
TSID: 1055 (0x041f) NTSC: 59 ATSC: 39 IL PEORIA
Channel Number: 59.1
Carrier Frequency: -2147483648
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 1
Channel ETT: News Center 6
Descriptor: ATSC Service Location Descriptor
Service Location Descriptor:

jefbal99

01-02-09, 02:11 PM

As always gary, thanks for the insight from a local engineer :)

jefbal99

01-02-09, 02:18 PM

Well we will see, but I just scheduled my install for ATT U-verse. It is now available in the Lansing area.

There are a couple promotional deals, but I was more interested in getting away from Comcast than anything.

What area of Lansing are you in? I tried my address on the website and it said U-Verse was not available

Edit in...

I used the following link (https://uma.att.com/uma/RetrieveChannelLineup?ZIP=48912&APPID=UMA&actionType=&FORMAT=POPUP&FirstTime=F) and the 48912 zipcode and UVerse has an impressive HD lineup. An overhaul of the first post will be needed. I just wish that the quality issues that I've heard about from other UVerse customers could be resolved. They have all the locals plus a ton of other HD...

Edit in 2...

used their HD filter and pulled it into Excel. Including the locals, they list 86 HD channels, however, this count includes WHTV and the West Coast feeds of premiums. May be able to clean this into a good list and have it in the first post today.

Edit in 3...

slow day at the office, first post is updated with at&t UVerse HD Line up

the_tick444

01-02-09, 03:05 PM

What area of Lansing are you in? I tried my address on the website and it said U-Verse was not available[/INDENT]

I am on the west side of town (48917), my parents also just signed up for ATT and they are SW (48910). I checked for my sister and it is unavailable in Holt.

jefbal99

01-02-09, 03:13 PM

I am on the west side of town (48917), my parents also just signed up for ATT and they are SW (48910). I checked for my sister and it is unavailable in Holt.

Yeah, 48917 works for the zipcode lookup, but I forgot that at&t doesn't know my house exists. I thought about a switch to DSL once and couldn't ever get any kind of service quote because my house isn't in their systems (even though I once had a business phone line through them that my employer paid for)...

jefbal99

01-05-09, 01:05 PM

FCC has posted graphics of where channels will be gaining or losing viewship post 2/19/09. Lansing DMA (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Lansing_MI.pdf) is there and it looks like most our channels will be gaining, rather than losing.

jefbal99

01-05-09, 01:15 PM

Westphalia Broadband has added some HD services, added them as a provider in the 1st post

spotdog14

01-05-09, 01:56 PM

Trip in VA

01-05-09, 02:00 PM

WSYM is running a directional pattern.

- Trip

jefbal99

01-06-09, 12:25 PM

Grand Rapids is reporting the Travel Channel HD on Comcast, any takers in the Lansing Area????

So awhile back I mentioned that I was doing a basement remodel, including a projector setup in the basement. Well, I have the projector screen and will be mounting it soon. Also in the process of running all my wiring and I'm looking for advice/thoughts from the local AVS'rs...

Attached is a non scale diagram of my basement layout. What I'm struggling with is running my AV cables. I will be running an HDMI and Component cables from the projector to the AV area in the bedroom/office closet, however, I want to "future proof" this as much as I can. I currently have an Xbox 360 that will be used with this setup, it will need to be placed below the projector screen, so I will need a set of component extension cables to run to the projector. I will also need to run a optical audio cable to the av area (is there a max distance for toslink cables?). I think i should also run an HDMI cable back to the AV area from in under the screen for temporary addition of a component.

In the future i will prolly need to add an HDMI switcher in the av area because the projector only has a single/dual HDMI inputs and devices will outnumber that.

I also need to determine mounting points for my speakers and where to run my speaker cables. Going to run wiring for 7.1, even if I start with a 5.1 system.

Essentially I'm looking for suggestions on what should be run where or what you would do given the mapped out setup.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=128695&stc=1&d=1231262635

TIA

jb

heed316

01-06-09, 12:50 PM

Grand Rapids is reporting the Travel Channel HD on Comcast, any takers in the Lansing Area????

Travel Channel HD showed up with all the other additions they made a week or two ago here in Brooklyn on channel 183.

Since Dec. 15 here they have added the following:

183 Travel Channel HD
186 BIOHD
210 GreenHD
214 Fox News Channel HD
216 MGM HD
221 Lifetime Movie Network HD
223 Speed HD
224 FX HD
225 E!HD
227 TOONHD
238 Toon Disney HD
250 Fuse HD
257 ESPN News HD
260 IFC HD
261 WE HD

Also, on the first post you have Golf HD and Versus HD mixed up on the channels, Versus is 206, Golf is 207

the_tick444

01-06-09, 09:53 PM

My install of uverse was one of the very first. I believe that my parents may have been the first and mine the second. Monday was the first install day in Lansing and they were at our homes shortly after 8 am and 9 am respectively.

After one full day of having Uverse, I am satisfied. For those looking for the ultimate quality from your television signal, I don't think this is for you. That isn't to say that the quality sucks, far from it. During certain situations I was able to notice some artifacting and a couple dropped frames, but for the most part things are fine. As a contrast my parents haven't notieced any issues and are extremely satisfied.

The one thing that may contribute to this is that I have a 56" DLP that I have set to 720p. While it will do 1080i, there were more artifacting and green macroblocking when set to it.

I was a bit surprised that there were some HD channels that weren't available that I just assumed were standard fare such as DisneyHD, and ABC family HD. This is made up by having a glutton of movie channels in HD (all HBO, Showtimes, etc). The channel lineups make much more sense other than I had to step up to the U300 package to get PBS sprout. This is part of the family plan, but it is removed from the u100 and u200. (What can I say, I have small children and this is one of the only channels they watch.)

As for the internet, speeds are fine (upload is faster than comcast). The modem that does all of the streaming and converting to coax has wireless built in. I did prefer to hook my old router into it and just place it in the DMZ so I didn't have to reconfigre port forwarding for certain services I have. (I use port translation which the ATT model wouldn't do, that I could find). I then turned off its wireless as well. Great features for average consumers, not needed for me.

The STB that they are handing out are the Cisco models, so that was good. Unfortunately it wasn't the larger DVR, just the older IPN430MC. There are some software things that bug me in the DVR, but overall a decent box.

If anyone has questions, let me know.

spotdog14

01-07-09, 01:44 PM

jefbal99

01-07-09, 03:58 PM

Awesome to hear about your install, thanks for sharing the story. I really hope they get out into the Haslett area soon, I cannot wait to give Concast the boot!

I'd like to try it out for Internet only (Have D* and Skype for phone)

cornell_lingus

01-07-09, 08:44 PM

I wonder if Gary is going to be too good to stop in and talk to us peons now that he's a TV star? :D

jefbal99

01-07-09, 09:45 PM

I wonder if Gary is going to be too good to stop in and talk to us peons now that he's a TV star? :D

I saw that in the program guide, but didn't flip over to it. Was it in HD? Will it be rerun?

mathwhiz

01-07-09, 11:27 PM

It was not in HD because WKAR does not have the equipment to broadcast/record their own programs in HD. As far as I know it will not be rebroadcast but is supposed to be on WKAR's YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/wkar) tomorrow. I was also in there a bit - I was helping answer phones. I know you can see me near the beginning of the program when the camera switches to a single shot of Jeanie - I'm the person in the back near the phone in a blue shirt.

Overall I think the program went well - got a ton of calls and helped a lot of people out. One caller even called back to thank us because the suggestions we gave got her all setup for DTV. I'm glad I could help out WKAR with this.

Rich W.

Ken H

01-08-09, 02:49 AM

AT&T U-verse Arrives in Mid-Michigan

Lansing Customers Get New TV Choice That Ranks Highest in Customer Satisfaction in J.D. Power and Associates Study

Lansing, Michigan, January 7, 2009

newsrelease

Mid-Michigan residents now have a new — and better — choice for their television and communications services. AT&T Mobility and Consumer Markets today announced the launch of AT&T U-verseSM services, including AT&T U-verse TV, AT&T U-verse High Speed Internet and AT&T U-verse Voice.

AT&T U-verse TV, High Speed Internet and Voice services, which are all delivered over the company's advanced Internet Protocol (IP) network, offer a new alternative to cable and an unmatched experience for customers. AT&T U-verse brings together your TV, broadband, home phone and wireless services — all on one bill — with unique features that provide a new level of integration, convenience and control. AT&T U-verse TV ranked "Highest in Customer Satisfaction in the North Central Region," according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2008 Residential Television Service Provider Satisfaction StudySM.

Customers can currently order AT&T U-verse services in parts of nearly 20 local communities, including Lansing, East Lansing, Jackson, Meridian Township and Okemos. AT&T Mobility and Consumer Markets will make U-verse services available to more homes throughout the area on an ongoing basis.

jefbal99

01-10-09, 10:00 PM

So i have what might be a dumb question....

Watching Hockey Night in Canada on NHL HD and the CBC has FSN Detroit HD highlights of the Wings game tonight, however, ESPN has never had HD highlights from any of the FSN owned RSNs.

jefbal99

01-12-09, 10:53 AM

Not sure if change is coming, but highlights of the Sunday ACC game from Fox Sports between Wake Forest and North Carolina were in HD. Hopefully this will change for Fox RSN too.

homcom

01-12-09, 06:34 PM

Not sure if change is coming, but highlights of the Sunday ACC game from Fox Sports between Wake Forest and North Carolina were in HD. Hopefully this will change for Fox RSN too.

Highlights of national FSN programming has been in HD on ESPN for quite some time, this is nothing new.

jefbal99

01-12-09, 09:11 PM

Highlights of national FSN programming has been in HD on ESPN for quite some time, this is nothing new.

Damn, I don't watch SC that much anymore because they show so few highlights and too much crap.

Thanks for the info

garybliev

01-13-09, 08:35 AM

wb8tgy

01-13-09, 11:36 AM

Thanks Gary for the tip on the special show at 11:00PM about WKAR (and WMSB ?). Good luck with getting ready for the move to WKAR-DT's new channel.

SMWinnie

01-13-09, 12:32 PM

Tonight at 11:00 WKAR-TV presents "WKAR's First Fifty" a retrospective of WKAR's broadcasting from 1954 to 2004. Following the program at midnight, WKAR-TV will conclude analog television broadcasting.But the President-Elect has asked for a delay in this whole digital TV switchover thingie. Is there anything - anything at all - that might make it difficult to change the switchover plans this late in the game?

(Anybody know the vB tag for sarcasm?)

garybliev

01-13-09, 02:30 PM

(Anybody know the vB tag for sarcasm?)

Yeah it is just <sarcasm> followed by </sarcasm>

mathwhiz

01-13-09, 03:34 PM

Tonight at 11:00 WKAR-TV presents "WKAR's First Fifty" a retrospective of WKAR's broadcasting from 1954 to 2004. Following the program at midnight, WKAR-TV will conclude analog television broadcasting.

I'll be watching live on the OTA analog channel. I never watch analog channels or live - always use my TiVo, but for this special occasion I'm going to - I want to make sure I give analog WKAR-TV a proper send-off!

cornell_lingus

01-14-09, 01:06 AM

I figured there would be a little ceremonial something before WKAR left the analog airwaves. Plus it would have been a last reminder.

cornell_lingus

01-14-09, 01:07 AM

MLB Network is now on DirecTV channel 213.

cornell_lingus

01-14-09, 01:08 AM

Damn, I don't watch SC that much anymore because they show so few highlights and too much crap.

Thanks for the info

You don't watch Sawx Center? <sarcasm>I thought it was required by law.</sarcasm>

garybliev

01-16-09, 08:30 AM

I figured there would be a little ceremonial something before WKAR left the analog airwaves. Plus it would have been a last reminder.

That's what the one hour special was all about. Beyond that our services do continue, but with four of them (ok, three) behind the trellis.

lied

01-16-09, 05:11 PM

Just switched from Direct TV to Comcast today and find the HD quality poor at best. I am wondering whether or not this a general problem or something specific to my location and situation? On the HD locals, for example, there is a wavy interference line all along the top border. Moreover, there seems to be only marginal improvement when switching from std to hd. Perhaps there is a format adjustment(for resolution and aspect ratio) on my dvr(DCT 3416) that is hidden from me(Comcast installer had no user guides left!). There was a format adjustment on my direct tv dvr. Any insights from you comcast veterans would be appreciated.

maggiefan

01-17-09, 12:04 AM

You should have the Motorola box. With the TV on turn the box off and then press menu and that will give you the set up screen. After you set everything just turn the box off and the setting should be saved. Hope this helps.

cornell_lingus

01-17-09, 01:50 AM

Or call the snarky bitch with the big fake teeth on all the Comcast commercials who says they are so good and make it so easy...

SMWinnie

01-17-09, 06:34 PM

I'm getting a lousy picture from Comcast, too. We're getting tons of pixellation, and the last time I saw this was when Comcast rolled out some new channels.

Anyone else seeing this? Bandwidth problem? Weather? Just us?

DanMacMan

01-18-09, 11:44 AM

Milwaukee's WISN introduces HD on-screen weather graphic (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/18/milwaukees-wisn-introduces-hd-on-screen-weather-graphic/)

Finally, people are figuring out how to implement an HD weatherbug.

SMWinnie

01-18-09, 07:21 PM

At some point in the past few days, Comcast appears to have flipped the copy protection switch for HBO.

cornell_lingus

01-20-09, 09:14 PM

Is it just me or is tonight's FSD Wings broadcast upconverted and not true HD?

heed316

01-20-09, 09:21 PM

Is it just me or is tonight's FSD Wings broadcast upconverted and not true HD?

I was just coming on here to ask if anyone else had it looking strange. Definately not in HD, waaaay too grainy...it's annoying

heed316

01-20-09, 10:12 PM

Seems to have been fixed for the 2nd period...

jefbal99

01-21-09, 01:26 PM

Is it just me or is tonight's FSD Wings broadcast upconverted and not true HD?

I watched a bit of the first period and it looked bad. Glad it got cleaned up for the rest of the game.

garybliev

01-24-09, 04:42 PM

We have a new sifop [tpvrddpt in line on our HD channel. It's a loaner, we'll have it for a couple of weeks. Let me know what, if anything, you think about it.

The (well not sure it even qualifies as) encryption is intentional.

SMWinnie

01-24-09, 08:05 PM

Trip in VA

01-24-09, 08:21 PM

I think I'm the designated naïve guy. What the heck is a sifop [tpvrddpt?

I think the second word is supposed to be "processor" but I have no clue what the first one is. Hopefully he'll be by to fill everyone in.

- Trip

heed316

01-24-09, 11:20 PM

I think the second word is supposed to be "processor" but I have no clue what the first one is. Hopefully he'll be by to fill everyone in.

- Trip

Audio Processor

audio = one letter to the left of every letter in sifop
processor = one letter to the right of every letter in [tpvrddpt

SMWinnie

01-25-09, 10:19 AM

Audio Processor

audio = one letter to the left of every letter in sifop
processor = one letter to the right of every letter in [tpvrddptUm, OK. So 'KAR will be running some sort of bit-shifting audio processor?

Tonight on WKAR: The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer in pig latin at 7 o'clock, followed by Antiques Roadshow in ROT13 at eight.

Oodgay eveningway, I'mway Imjay Ehrerlay. Onway ethay Ewsnay Ourhay onighttay...

heed316

01-28-09, 10:46 AM

jefbal99

01-28-09, 10:57 AM

The following channels are now available on Comcast:

Nickelodeon HD (ch 228)
Lifetime HD (ch 239)
Spike HD (ch 226)

These channels showed up in my guide on the TiVo a few weeks ago but they are now confirmed live as of today.

Updated Comcast with these new additions. Also updated DirecTV with the GOlf Channel move and Comedy Central HD

pierceive

01-28-09, 06:37 PM

The following channels are now available on Comcast:

Nickelodeon HD (ch 228)
Lifetime HD (ch 239)
Spike HD (ch 226)

Confirmed in Meridian.

FOXGuy72

01-29-09, 04:01 PM

Those channels have not yet showed up on Comcast where I'm located (Delta Township).

TTRider

01-29-09, 10:50 PM

Nick, Lifetime and Spike haven't shown up in the DeWitt area yet either. Of course, UVerse isn't available here either so Comcast doesn't feel the competitive threat as yet.

FOXGuy72

01-31-09, 09:15 AM

Still nothing in Delta Township.

jefbal99

01-31-09, 04:26 PM

Comcast customers...

Please remember that there are multiple headends in the area. They are not all exactly the same and may have different bandwidth capacities. Just because one area gets a new channel, doesn't mean that all areas will get it.

SMWinnie

02-01-09, 12:05 PM

Per title. I'm considering a DTVPal DVR for our guest room and TVGOS would be a big help.

FOXGuy72

02-01-09, 01:40 PM

jefbal99

02-01-09, 05:00 PM

Per title. I'm considering a DTVPal DVR for our guest room and TVGOS would be a big help.

Winnie, there were some posts earlier in this thread about TVGOS, I'm pretty sure that WLNS is passing it or will be.

maggiefan

02-01-09, 06:24 PM

Well, Comcast is just getting too expensive, so I'm going to OTA. I've got a TIVO coming and hope this works out OK. With my indoor cheapie antenna hooked up to the TV I get all the locals which is pretty much all I watch anyway. I live in a high rise apartment building so I was kinda surprised at getting all the locals. Lots of metal around. I trying to get management to upgrade and reconnect the rooftop master antenna, hope that works out. It's a ten story building but when they wired for cable they unhooked it, what a waste!

Yankees368

02-02-09, 02:42 AM

jefbal99

02-02-09, 08:55 AM

Hey everyone. I moved to Lansing this past summer, and I finally made the plunge into an HDTV. Currently, I live downtown, and I am forced to use Arialink. I only get their basic analog service, which is something like 55 channels. My question is since my new TV has a built in QAM tuner, will I be able to pick up any channels with it? Does anyone have any clue as to if arialink transmits anything over QAM?

From what I gather, arialink just re-transmits dishnetwork programming over their network, so I am not sure if they even have the capability to pass through QAM. Any answers would be great. Thanks in advance!

Does Arialink also provide your internet or do you have a cable modem through Comcast?

QAM is the digital distribution system that Comcast uses for their cable TV and Internet. If you don't subscribe to them, then QAM is not an option.

If your TV has an ATSC tuner, then hook up an antenna and you can get the locals in HD.

Yankees368

02-02-09, 11:56 AM

Does Arialink also provide your internet or do you have a cable modem through Comcast?

QAM is the digital distribution system that Comcast uses for their cable TV and Internet. If you don't subscribe to them, then QAM is not an option.

If your TV has an ATSC tuner, then hook up an antenna and you can get the locals in HD.

Yes, I also get my internet through Arialink, and it is not totally terrible. QAM is a system that is run by any cable operator to pass through unencrypted HDTV signals, not just Comcast. I guess I will just find out when my TV gets here.

As for using an antenna, it would be nice to have a solid connection through the cable co, as OTA is not the best option for me.

SMWinnie

02-02-09, 01:56 PM

Winnie, there were some posts earlier in this thread about TVGOS, I'm pretty sure that WLNS is passing it or will be.I got a quick response back from WLNS. They are sending TVGOS data.

jefbal99

02-02-09, 02:27 PM

Yes, I also get my internet through Arialink, and it is not totally terrible. QAM is a system that is run by any cable operator to pass through unencrypted HDTV signals, not just Comcast. I guess I will just find out when my TV gets here.

As for using an antenna, it would be nice to have a solid connection through the cable co, as OTA is not the best option for me.

I know that any digital cable system is QAM, but Comcast is the only local MSO using QAM. If your building is wired and connected to the Arialink system, then thats the best you've got.

What area are you in that this Arialink setup is at, maybe we can help you in getting an appropriate antenna that will get you the locals, reliably.

Yankees368

02-02-09, 02:44 PM

I know that any digital cable system is QAM, but Comcast is the only local MSO using QAM. If your building is wired and connected to the Arialink system, then thats the best you've got.

What area are you in that this Arialink setup is at, maybe we can help you in getting an appropriate antenna that will get you the locals, reliably.

I am downtown in the Arbaugh Building, 401 S Washington. On my old TV, OTA analog i get nothing, but OTA DTV with a converter I got I did actually get decent reception, but my old RCA un-powered antenna had to be positioned just perfectly.
I figure that if I want a reliable signal, i just need to pick up a cheap-powered antenna. Any tips would be welcome.

jefbal99

02-02-09, 02:49 PM

I am downtown in the Arbaugh Building, 401 S Washington. On my old TV, OTA analog i get nothing, but OTA DTV with a converter I got I did actually get decent reception, but my old RCA un-powered antenna had to be positioned just perfectly.
I figure that if I want a reliable signal, i just need to pick up a cheap-powered antenna. Any tips would be welcome.

****, yer like 3 blocks from my office...

I had an RCA powered UHF Loop with bunny ears, but I gave it to my neighbor to hook to his D* H20.

I've had great luck with that little antenna, it would be yours if it wasn't already spoken for. I'd spend the $30 for the powered antenna and see if it works for ya. Worst case, be careful opening the packaging and return it if it doesn't work out for ya.

Get it near a south facing window and you should be good.

Yankees368

02-02-09, 03:00 PM

****, yer like 3 blocks from my office...

I had an RCA powered UHF Loop with bunny ears, but I gave it to my neighbor to hook to his D* H20.

I've had great luck with that little antenna, it would be yours if it wasn't already spoken for. I'd spend the $30 for the powered antenna and see if it works for ya. Worst case, be careful opening the packaging and return it if it doesn't work out for ya.

Get it near a south facing window and you should be good.

Well the problem with that last part is my bedroom does not have a window, lol. Though I am on the top floor of the building, so reception is OK. Hopefully, I will get decent reception with the new TV, as I did with the converter box.

garybliev

02-02-09, 03:32 PM

OK, I guess I was too-cute by half (what ever that means). We have a loaner 5.1 audio processor on line for 23.1 and I wondered what you guys thought about it.

Meanwhile we completed the modifications to our (former) analog transmitter to digital and from channel 23 to 40 last week. Both halves of the transmitter tested fine. We're looking forward to the change over on 2/18 (or such other date as may be established by Congress)

SMWinnie

02-03-09, 11:05 AM

We're looking forward to the change over on 2/18 (or such other date as may be established by Congress)Gary, how would a delay in the cutover affect WKAR's plans? Do you need another station to vacate channel 40 in order to move from 55 to 40?

garybliev

02-04-09, 09:01 AM

Gary, how would a delay in the cutover affect WKAR's plans? Do you need another station to vacate channel 40 in order to move from 55 to 40?

(Hmm, I answered this yesterday and the response disappeared.)

We are looking forward to the channel change, we suffer from interference from other users on channel 55 in the Detroit/Ann Arbor and Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo areas. The (former) analog transmitter has an IOT (Inductive Output Tube) and along with the newest DTV exciter available it has a much better signal/noise ratio than our solid state DTV transmitter.

Even though, for now, we'll be at essentially the same power level, we'll have better coverage due to the non-interference on channel 40 and the better S/N.

Alas, there is a channel 40 digital in Cadillac and a channel 41 analog in Battle Creek that inhibit our ability to change channels.

jefbal99

02-04-09, 10:23 AM

JT01

02-04-09, 11:04 AM

Even though, for now, we'll be at essentially the same power level, we'll have better coverage due to the non-interference on channel 40 and the better S/N.

I hope this will solve my Charlotte reception problems. By "essentially the same power level" do you mean the same as the former analog or the same as the current digital (50K watts)? Thanks.

JT01

wb8tgy

02-04-09, 12:02 PM

Let's hope WWTV flash cuts back to channel 9 and WOTV turns off analog channel 41, so WKAR-DT can move to channel 40 in February. I know a lot of people that have trouble with WKAR-DT on channel 55.

Maybe after WLNS gets off channel 6 I will be able to see GVSU's station out of Kazoo on channel 5.

twaller

02-04-09, 12:33 PM

So i'm lazy...anybody want to gather together a list of what digital channels our locals will be going to after the transition? We can then compare that to adjacent markets to see if there is an issue in moving.

We already know that WLNS had to wait for WJRT to move, and as Gary noted, WKAR has to wait for the Cadillac and Battle Creek stations to move.

Any other stations being held up?

In the Lansing Market it breaks down like this:

WILX is returning to 10 (no interference issues), they have filed with the FCC that this is happening on February 17 regardless.

WSYM is staying on 38 digital (shutting down 47 analog), not sure whether they will turn off 47 on the 17th if congress pushes back the date.

WLAJ is staying on 51 digital (shutting down 53 analog, out of core), not sure if they will turn off 53 on the 17th regardless

WLNS is waiting for WJRT to vacate 36. It seems that 'JRT wants to wait until the last possible second to vacate 12 analog (being replaced with 12 digital but with lower power). WLNS is currently operating 6 analog and 59 digital(but with reduced power on 59 in anticipation of the buildout on 36)

Trip in VA

02-04-09, 12:35 PM

So i'm lazy...anybody want to gather together a list of what digital channels our locals will be going to after the transition? We can then compare that to adjacent markets to see if there is an issue in moving.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=137

Look at the "digital channel" column. Should be self-explanatory.

Maybe after WLNS gets off channel 6 I will be able to see GVSU's station out of Kazoo on channel 5.

Good luck with that. WLMB-DT on 5 in Toledo would be problem enough (depending on location) but low-VHF is really miserable for digital reception.

Don't try watching in a thunderstorm. Or while vacuuming. Or using a blender. Or a shredder. Or a light switch. Or a washing machine. Or... (etc etc)

- Trip

mathwhiz

02-04-09, 12:48 PM

Based on what I know - WKAR-DT on channel 40 will have about the same power as WKAR-DT on channel 55 - not what the power was on analog.

Another source for digital channels (and analog) in Michigan is http://www.michigandtv.com/findmychannel.html

JT01

02-04-09, 01:02 PM

Based on what I know - WKAR-DT on channel 40 will have about the same power as WKAR-DT on channel 55 - not what the power was on analog.

I thought Garybliev said at some point that WKAR would have somewhere around 400K watts after the digital transition, as opposed to 50K digital now. My problem is I'm behind a hill in Charlotte and the current 50k signal is unuseable - sometimes ok, most of the time not there at all. Even though I have a good directional rooftop antenna with rotor, I can't count on watching anything because I never know if reception conditions will be good. Directv doesn't have HD locals in the Lansing area, so I'm stuck with standard definition.

JT01

garybliev

02-04-09, 01:44 PM

I thought Garybliev said at some point that WKAR would have somewhere around 400K watts after the digital transition, as opposed to 50K digital now. My problem is I'm behind a hill in Charlotte and the current 50k signal is unuseable - sometimes ok, most of the time not there at all. Even though I have a good directional rooftop antenna with rotor, I can't count on watching anything because I never know if reception conditions will be good. Directv doesn't have HD locals in the Lansing area, so I'm stuck with standard definition.

JT01

WKAR-DT allocated power on channel 55 is 54.6 kW, allocated power on channnel 40 is 50.0 kW. REQUESTED power on channel 40, in a directional pattern is 425kW. I have no idea when/if the FCC will grant us an increase in power or how much, if any.

The Peebles/Dunham's hill along with I-69 seems to hurt a lot of ota viewers in Charlotte.

JT01

02-04-09, 02:13 PM

WKAR-DT allocated power on channel 55 is 54.6 kW, allocated power on channnel 40 is 50.0 kW. REQUESTED power on channel 40, in a directional pattern is 425kW. I have no idea when/if the FCC will grant us an increase in power or how much, if any.

The Peebles/Dunham's hill along with I-69 seems to hurt a lot of ota viewers in Charlotte.

Thanks, Gary. I guess my best bet is Directv adding HD locals here in Lansing, which hopefully will occur soon. I could get Broadstripe cable, but (to put it mildly) I'm not willing to put up with their level of service in order to get WKAR HD.

Yankees368

02-04-09, 02:51 PM

Finally getting my little 19 inch HD Vizio tomorrow. Can anyone suggest a decent (also, cheap) powered antenna, in case Arialink does not pass through clear-QAM.

jefbal99

02-04-09, 03:35 PM

Thanks, Gary. I guess my best bet is Directv adding HD locals here in Lansing, which hopefully will occur soon. I could get Broadstripe cable, but (to put it mildly) I'm not willing to put up with their level of service in order to get WKAR HD.

Over at DBSTalk, D* employee satelliteracer has stated that a Michigan DMA will be getting HD LiL in 2009. Should be Lansing, no idea when though...

jefbal99

02-04-09, 03:36 PM

Finally getting my little 19 inch HD Vizio tomorrow. Can anyone suggest a decent (also, cheap) powered antenna, in case Arialink does not pass through clear-QAM.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103916

garybliev

02-04-09, 03:43 PM

[QUOTE=Yankees368;15736025]Finally getting my little 19 inch HD Vizio tomorrow. Can anyone suggest a decent (also, cheap) powered antenna, in case Arialink does not pass through clear-QAM.[/QUOTE

This is not an official recommendation, only a personal suggestion.

Terk HDTVa. Try online sources such as amazon.com

The power inserter for the amplifier has to be in-line and powered but the amplification does not have to be on.

wb8tgy

02-04-09, 03:58 PM

Yankees368,

If you have a old non ampified VHF/UHF antenna I would try that first, it may work fine for you.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a square shaped RCA amplified antenna from WalMart, for just under $30. It seems to work OK. It's not as omni-directional as they say on the box, but I don't need to move it for most of the stations I can get with the indoor antenna.

I used to have a non amplified "Silver Sensor" UHF antenna that worked very well , but I'm not sure how well that antenna would work in Lansing after WILX goes back to channel 10. I don't know anyplace in Lansing that still sells the Silver Sensor, but you can find them online.

Yankees368

02-04-09, 04:49 PM

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/04/its-official-dtv-hard-date-moved-to-june-12/

After much wrangling, the DTV Delay Act has worked its way through the House of Representatives and will certainly be signed by President Obama, changing the cutoff date for analog broadcasts from February 17 to June 12. Don't expect this to bring a sudden end to digital TV confusion, since stations can switch prior to that date, and according to the FCC up to 61% will be able to. Since simply powering analog equipment costs thousands of dollars a month, OTA TV watchers will want to check their local broadcaster's plans, since more than a few will be going ahead with the original date for better or worse. Got an unused, expired coupon? No need to head to Retrevo just yet, since you'll now be able to reapply to the again-funded coupon program. Of course, the FCC still has to figure out how to implement the new law, with only a few days to prepare, tomorrow's open meeting on the subject should be very interesting.

theantennaman

02-05-09, 09:31 AM

Gary,

I do a lot of work in Charlotte, Olivet & Bellevue, many calls generated since WKAR went digital only. A few months ago I posted regarding outdoor/rooftop antenna problems that are magnified with digital signals. Here is the short version:

WKAR & WLNS are presently positioned at chs. 55 & 59 respectively. These channels are around 750Mhz where coaxial losses are very high. 100' of RG-59 introduces 7dB of loss (effectively cutting received signal by almost 50%). A 4 way splitter will again introduce another 7-8dB of loss cutting the signal yet again another 50%. Under this scenario, Ch. 23 & 6 will be the first to go under high network loss conditions.

I find many situations of multiple splitters, loose f-connectors and devices in line adding high insertion loss.

Many people are going out to buy distribution amplifiers to put behind the TV or in the network, the problem is, once the integrity of the digital signal is lost, it cannot be recovered---a preamplifier at the antenna is the best bet with gain sufficient to overcome all calculated distribution losses.

One last problem I am finding is the failure of directional antenna rotors. Several times a week I get a call about poor digital signal reception, and ask if the rotor is turning the antenna, most people say it is, yet I find that in many cases, the rotor control will turn and indicate rotation, but the motor is actually not turning, therefore a large directional antenna with high front to back rejection might be pointed directly away from channel 23 & 6 providing very little gain needed for good digital signal.

Hope this is of value.

Mike

Yankees368

02-05-09, 12:56 PM

jefbal99

02-05-09, 02:18 PM

Crap. AriaSTINK is not broadcasting any clear-QAM signals. To top that off, my new Vizio only has 1 coax input. So it needs to share the cable cable and OTA cable. What will be my best bet here. Should i get a coax switch?

Do you have a STB from Arialink that uses HDMI or a component input on the LCD? That way the coax is free for an OTA antenna.

Yankees368

02-05-09, 03:19 PM

Do you have a STB from Arialink that uses HDMI or a component input on the LCD? That way the coax is free for an OTA antenna.

nope. I have standard, STB-less, 48 channel, fuzzy analog cable only. I went to wal-mart and got a little $5 RCA coax A/B switch. Seems to work pretty well. (target did not have one)

garybliev

02-06-09, 09:30 AM

Thanks for the note. At the current time, WKAR at 54kW and WLNS at about 500kw, WKAR will be the first to have problems as our signal strength is about 10dB less than WLNS (even at their "reduced power)

Anecdote: A viewer in Springport had a directional antenna with pre-amplifier and just could not get WKAR. I had him walk outside and check the aiming (just to make sure that it was rotating) It was rotating, but just could not get WKAR. He said, viewers nearby had no problem. On a whim he went to Menard's and purchased an $9 loop antenna, hung it up inside is house, and is now getting WKAR just fine.

We have had several other viewer calls that seem to be related to pre-amplifier overload problems. Usually in the Jackson or Eaton Rapids area where the antenna has to look though other closer more powerful stations.

Hmmm, maybe with WILX turning off their UHF channel 57 on 2/17/09 reception for WKAR on 55 might get better.

Yankees368

02-06-09, 10:12 AM

SMWinnie

02-06-09, 11:11 AM

Over at Ars Technica, there's an article (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/fcc-issues-policies-for-early-dtv-transitioners.ars) describing how the new delay-enhanced rules might...or might not...work.

Caution: Those of you from Sigma Iotia II may be insulted by the author's description of the delay and rulemaking process.

theantennaman

02-09-09, 08:00 AM

Gary,
Excellent point about preamplifier overload. Back in May & June of last year I had serious concerns about this problem and had some discussions with Hans Rabong the lead engineer at Winegard. We did some modeling and talked about what I perceived could be a potential problem---I was concerned because we had all of these analog transmitters and with the addition of the same amount of digital transmitters, what would happen to the preamps out there?
Hans said they did some testing in different markets and found that there was little impact in most cases.

Since I wanted to be sure, in June we created a chart and started measuring both analog & digital signals on all jobs. The most common preamp I use has a rated gain of 19dB uhf & 17dB vhf, the rated input is 93,000microvolts U & 110,000microvolts V. Now as you know, the input rating is the sum of all VHF analog & digital signals received at the input of the preamp and the sum of all UHF analog & digital signals. Moving around Eaton & Ingham county, there as no where I found these thresholds to be exceeded, if they were, Winegard has a 12dB U/V preamp, that has a combined input of 350,000 microvolts. What I did find was that the impact of the digital signals was nominal because the existing analog transmitters had been reduced in power and the received level of the digital signals was typically below 1000 microvolts per channel.

The problem is with high gain preamplifiers rated in the 26 to 29dB range. At this output level, the input threshold is around 30,000 microvolts for both U & V. The biggest risk factor in this area are the areas closet to E. Lansing (6 analog Vhf, & 18 digital Uhf, 23 digital Uhf & 6 digital Uhf) and the area between Eaton Rapids & Onondaga where 10, 47 & 53 are, probably a bigger risk of UHF overload than the Lansing cluster but obviously much less populated.

To be honest, I have not found one case of preamp overload in the last year. What I do find the most is people that have inserted splitters between the preamp power supply and the antenna that do not pass power, thereby not allowing power to pass to the preamp, thereby shutting down the passing of signal almost completely (most preamps do not have automatic bypass on loss of power but would be nice feature).

I was actually at a job last week where the folks had a new tv, analog signals looked fine, but digital was trashed. Behind the TV was a 20dB post amp. I had no measurable input to the preamp on digital, nominal on analog. We could find no preamp power supply and no amp hung below the antenna but it was a Channel Master Quantum series antenna that could have had a cartridge in the housing, I asked the customer about a Power Supply and he said he had taken out another amplifier a few years before after he had put in a splitter the signal went bad. He found the "amplifier" which was actually a Power Supply for the preamp, when he added the splitter to the network, it did not pass power and thereby shut the preamp down. He had taken the power supply to Radio Shack and the gave him the distribution amp--We replaced splitter, took out dist amp, put power supply on, everything was good.

Anyway, I am doing a new antenna in East Lansing tonight (no preamp planned), but I will chart the received signal levels to see what the impact might be on one.

If you get anymore suspected preamp overload situations around the 10, 47, 53 towers, let me know as I do free evals.

Mike

garybliev

02-09-09, 05:11 PM

gary,
excellent point about preamplifier overload. ...
If you get anymore suspected preamp overload situations around the 10, 47, 53 towers, let me know as i do free evals.

Mike

thank you

JT01

02-10-09, 03:55 PM

I watch Antiques Roadshow in SD every week on WKAR via Directv. Until this week the picture was rectangular, centered in the middle of the screen. I could then use my tv's zoom function to enlarge the image to full screen. This produced acceptable picture quality, with only a small amount of the border off the screen. This week, however, the picture was 4:3, apparently cut off from 16:9, with a noticeable amount of screen text off the sides of the 4:3 "box". On the up side however, the picture quality was much better than usual - looked like an upconverted DVD, although the DVR showed it was only 480.

I checked the aspect ratio of both the DVR and TV - DVR said "original format" - TV was "1:1", meaning it was showing the picture as received. Thanks for the greatly improved picture quality, but any chance of getting this in 16:9? Is the aspect ratio controlled by WKAR or Directv? Does this change mean Directv is preparing for Lansing locals in HD?? Thank you.

JT01

garybliev

02-10-09, 04:36 PM

I watch Antiques Roadshow in SD every week on WKAR via Directv.

JT01

DirecTV, Dish Network, and all cable systems have been asked to carry our 23.2 as the source for their analog tier (or equivalent.)

There is magic due to come sometime from PBS for what is called "Active Format Descriptor" which will allow us to transmit codes that will tell receivers what shape picture we are transmitting. Professional grade receivers, in theory, should respond to those codes. Reportedly the new Insignia/Zenith STB also responds.

Just issued this week is the software that will allow our satellite receivers to respond to those codes. PBS is still conducing thought process studies to determine their implementation.

When all this comes to be, then we'll include those codes in our signal and then we can ask cable systems to carry our 23.1 as the primary, which will then free up 23.2 to be used for other non-duplicate content.

In the mean time, we are manually setting the satellite receivers to center-cut or crop from sign-on to 6PM which is mostly children's programming. I don't know if we missed the switch for Antiques Roadshow and left it in center-cut on Monday... or if it was a legacy program created in 4x3.

Things were a bit weird Monday night as our operators were focused on getting the Presidential Press Conference onto 23.4 (World) at that same time.

JT01

02-10-09, 05:17 PM

we are manually setting the satellite receivers to center-cut or crop from sign-on to 6PM which is mostly children's programming. I don't know if we missed the switch for Antiques Roadshow and left it in center-cut on Monday... or if it was a legacy program created in 4x3.

Things were a bit weird Monday night as our operators were focused on getting the Presidential Press Conference onto 23.4 (World) at that same time.

Gary,

Thanks for the info - the whole process should be great when all that is implemented.

I'm pretty sure the AR episode was not a legacy 4:3 - on-screen text was cut off on the sides as you'd expect if 16:9 was center-cut. Also, the Lincoln assassination special was the same way and that's new. Didn't mean to criticize - just wondered what was going on. Thanks again.

JT01

jefbal99

02-10-09, 05:43 PM

Saw a note in a news segment on 10.2 this morning that WILX is still making the digital cutover on 2/17.

mathwhiz

02-10-09, 08:47 PM

garybliev

02-11-09, 11:45 AM

Gary,

Thanks for the info - the whole process should be great when all that is implemented.

I'm pretty sure the AR episode was not a legacy 4:3 - on-screen text was cut off on the sides as you'd expect if 16:9 was center-cut. Also, the Lincoln assassination special was the same way and that's new. Didn't mean to criticize - just wondered what was going on. Thanks again.

JT01

Ah ha, turns out that even though we told Dish to use 23.2 they are using 23.1 in crop instead. I'll be calling them.

jefbal99

02-11-09, 12:00 PM

Yes - WILX will be turning off their analog and changing digital from channel 57 to 10 around 2:00 a.m. or so on February 17. So after that time you'll need to rescan to find it. (This is pending approval from FCC to operate on their post DTV channel).

So far all the other channels (that aren't digital only already) are keeping their analog on.

Odd, I don't believe WILX was listed on the PDF I saw for channels that were changing early. I hope that the note I saw on TV and what you are saying is correct.

Yankees368

02-11-09, 12:20 PM

Odd, I don't believe WILX was listed on the PDF I saw for channels that were changing early. I hope that the note I saw on TV and what you are saying is correct.

WILX was the only station listed in that PDF as going off this month. The bugs on WILX HD is getting VERY annoying. Several times an hour, they cut the HD feed to SD to tell me that they are going off air now. STOP IT!

Trip in VA

02-11-09, 12:39 PM

Odd, I don't believe WILX was listed on the PDF I saw for channels that were changing early. I hope that the note I saw on TV and what you are saying is correct.

The PDF is riddled with errors anyway. Stations missing, stations which didn't file are on it, some stations that have already cut analog listed as keeping it til June, etc.

- Trip

jefbal99

02-11-09, 12:47 PM

The PDF is riddled with errors anyway. Stations missing, stations which didn't file are on it, some stations that have already cut analog listed as keeping it til June, etc.

- Trip

Thanks Trip, I'll just go with the info from the station.

stewa

02-11-09, 02:21 PM

Yes - WILX will be turning off their analog and changing digital from channel 57 to 10 around 2:00 a.m. or so on February 17. So after that time you'll need to rescan to find it. (This is pending approval from FCC to operate on their post DTV channel).

So far all the other channels (that aren't digital only already) are keeping their analog on.

I just hope I won't be losing WILX completely after next week when they go back to channel 10. I am in Williamston, using a DB2 antenna in the attic. I get them perfectly clear some days and other days can hardly lock on to their signal for even a few minutes. :(

mathwhiz

02-11-09, 04:29 PM

The scrolls WILX is airing are required by the FCC - nothing they can do - I agree it's annoying that it cuts the HD to SD, but with any luck next Tuesday we won't have any more of those ever on WILX!

I also am interested in seeing how my antenna will work in the attic with WILX - right now I get a reliable digital signal, but we'll see how it works on VHF.

Yankees368

02-12-09, 12:37 AM

is WKAR down for anyone else right now? I am getting nothing.

wb8tgy

02-12-09, 08:45 AM

Yankees368,

If I can believe the time of your posting (12:37AM, today), WKAR signs off at midnight, so they should be off the air (they still feed the cable systems after midnight, I think). I think WKAR is the only local station that still signs off everynight, maybe I'm showing my age, but I remember when every station used to sign off everynight.

garybliev

02-12-09, 08:53 AM

is WKAR down for anyone else right now? I am getting nothing.

WKAR-DT ran out of electricity at about 23:10 due to the storm. Power was back about 4 hours later.

garybliev

02-12-09, 08:55 AM

I just hope I won't be losing WILX completely after next week when they go back to channel 10. I am in Williamston, using a DB2 antenna in the attic. I get them perfectly clear some days and other days can hardly lock on to their signal for even a few minutes. :(

Good luck with that, let us know how it works. The Antennas Direct model DB2 is: "Ideal for UHF channels 14-69 "

jefbal99

02-12-09, 09:30 AM

Yankees368

02-12-09, 09:48 AM

WKAR-DT ran out of electricity at about 23:10 due to the storm. Power was back about 4 hours later.

Well that explains that. I was not aware that the storm was that bad. Also, is wb8tgy correct, does KAR sign off at night, and I have just not noticed?

mathwhiz

02-12-09, 02:33 PM

Yes wb8tgy is correct - WKAR is off the air from midnight to 7 am each night. They are looking into changing that - but as with everything it takes money. There is a post earlier in this thread I think from Gary talking about it. Local (Lansing, East Lansing, Meridian, maybe a few others) are fed via fiber and stay on 24/7.

Edit: Here is the link to Gary's post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15252485#post15252485

Yankees368

02-12-09, 11:32 PM

Is there a reason that WKAR has been showing HD content with the bars on the side for the past few days? The picture only takes up about 70% of my screen!

mathwhiz

02-12-09, 11:46 PM

Yankees - I can't answer your question - but it will help Gary answer you if you provide info on what shows and where you are watching (OTA, cable (which company), satellite, etc.)

Yankees368

02-12-09, 11:56 PM

I am using OTA, and I just expected anything letterboxed to be in HD

Matt L

02-13-09, 12:45 AM

garybliev

02-13-09, 08:18 AM

Wasn't WKAR analog 24/7? I seem to remember it running late night programming, but it's been so long since I watched analog I can't recall. I know WFUM -DT is 24/7, was hoping WKAR-DT would be after they killed the analog.

WKAR provides 24.7 feeds of HD, 23, Create, World, to Comcast via fiber optic. Essentially free to us.

WKAR has not and is not 24/7 over-the-air and has not been for at least the last seventeen years (probably ever)

We are looking at 24/7 after we construct a replacement tower, but the cost to do so will have to compete with our other needs.

garybliev

02-13-09, 08:32 AM

I am using OTA, and I just expected anything letterboxed to be in HD

We're in a weird part way HD part way SD mode of operation right now. Starting about a month ago PBS changed the national distribution of content from largely SD based to HD based. PBS is now feeding 2 full time HD channels (East coast and West Coast), plus one additional HD channel for pre-feeds and specials (news conferences, pledge programs, promos)

If the program was produced in SD it is fed in 4:3 inside of th 16:9 wrapper, if it was produced in HD or widscreen then it is 16:9.

We receive the feeds in both an HD version and we downconvert to an SD version. We feed the HD receiver to the HD channel, so 4:3 content will be pillarboxed. During the daytime we crop, or centercut, and feed the centercut SD to "23". But since most evening programming is 16:9 we change the downconvert to letterbox for prime time.

We have very limited HD record capability, and very little space remaining on our video server for records so we can't record HD -and- SD copies to preserve the aspect ratio. A lot of our records are from the SD receiver.

If a program comes to us in widescreen SD (16:9 inside a 4:3) then when we play it out to the HD channel it becomes 16:9 inside 4:3 inside 16:9. The worst of all worlds.

PBS is working toward implementing AFD, Active Format Descriptor, that when fully implemented will allow us to insert codes so that professional receivers, and some consumer receivers, will properly respond and select the correct display.

Having said all this, we are negotiating a grant with CPB that will allow us to increase our storage, increse our HD record and play capability, and incorporate AFD so that we can actually send out the correct format.

In the meantime, sorry, we're doing the best we can with what we have.

Yankees368

02-13-09, 09:59 AM

Eek! That was all very confusing. I was just wondering if it was me, or the broadcast, and now I know. Good luck getting this all sorted out. I might just keep watching the SD broadcast on Arialink for now, or just deal with the whacky HD.

DanMacMan

02-15-09, 07:05 PM

Why do I pay for Comcast's sports pack and not get the MLB Network?!

homcom

02-15-09, 08:09 PM

Why do I pay for Comcast's sports pack and not get the MLB Network?!

MLB Network is not in the Sports and Entertainment tier. I do believe it is part of digital starter.

garybliev

02-16-09, 10:49 AM

Why do I pay for Comcast's sports pack and not get the MLB Network?!

I don't know, why?

SMWinnie

02-16-09, 11:18 AM

MLB Network is not in the Sports and Entertainment tier. I do believe it is part of digital starter.The current lineup PDF for Aleidon/ELan/Meridien lists it as a part of the Digital Classic tier.

the3dolla

02-16-09, 04:24 PM

Hey -

Does anyone have any updated news on when Lansing, MI will get HD locals through DirecTV?

Thanks, Nick

Yankees368

02-16-09, 08:05 PM

Is WILX stuck in SD with HD programming on right now? I have black bars all the way around the screen. AGH! This ends tomorrow with them, right?

mathwhiz

02-16-09, 09:51 PM

I emailed them - haven't heard back. I think this is because of the scroll the FCC is making them run - when they don't have the scroll it was back to normal. So yes - this should end tomorrow - since after 2:00 a.m. tonight they'll switch over to digital only - make sure you rescan if you are picking them up OTA.

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 01:20 AM

I'll be up anyway. Maybe I'll flip over at 1:59 am and watch the switchover--then hope the antenna picks up digital 10.

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 03:12 AM

They flipped the switch at 2:05. I did a rescan and picked up 10.1 with no problem but 10.2 is missing.

fajitamosaic

02-17-09, 07:04 AM

I'm not getting WILX on either set in the house :( Not even a blip of signal. Two different antennas too: one an old rabbit ears, the other the Radio Shack UFO.

I fear I've lost WILX for good!

mathwhiz

02-17-09, 07:59 AM

WILX is going good here - now to get TiVo to change their guide data. Also my TV isn't finding 53.1 or 53.2 - silly thing!

wb8tgy

02-17-09, 08:00 AM

Rescaned for WILX-DT this morning, and found it on the two TVs I tried. I had to rescan a second time on the one TV to clean up the channel 10s that it had. Seems it was still remembering 10.1 and 10.2 from channel 57, and made the "new" channel 10s 10.3 and 10.4, but after the second rescan it cleared up.

I see channel 31 in Ann Arbor was still runing DT on channel 33, so I'll have to try that one again later (must be they are converting later today/tomorrow), and see if they really change their 31.1 to 720P.

Trip in VA

02-17-09, 08:06 AM

ION announced they're delaying their HD by a month.

- Trip

fajitamosaic

02-17-09, 08:20 AM

Yankees368

02-17-09, 08:33 AM

WILX still comes in decently for me downtown with minimal equipment. WHTV, however, is a pixelated mess still. I get nothing.

garybliev

02-17-09, 08:46 AM

I'm now getting a very weak signal from WILX with the rabbit ears. Had to fully extend them and elevate them higher. This north-facing basement apartment is a curse once again!

Any tips for boosting signal from a VHF source for an apartment dweller? I had UHF handled no problem, it seems.

(suggestions, not a recommendation):

http://www.antennasdirect.com/uhf-vhf.html

but they are big.

else, terk hdtva amplified vhf/uhf indoor model.

garybliev

02-17-09, 09:23 AM

Ah ha, turns out that even though we told Dish to use 23.2 they are using 23.1 in crop instead. I'll be calling them.

Fixed now.

mathwhiz

02-17-09, 09:35 AM

Anyone else seeing digital channels 59.1 and 59.3 from WLNS show up in their scans. They appear as a channel with no content. Also, can anyone see anything odd with WLAJ's digital signal and the channels they advertise - that might explain why my TV didn't pick them up in a scan? I'll have to scan my TV again when I get home to see if it's cleared up.

mathwhiz

02-17-09, 10:16 AM

The WILX frequency change has been reported to TiVo. Hopefully they'll fix it quick - since I can't record anything using guide data until they flip it.

J.P.Heff

02-17-09, 11:03 AM

Hey -

Does anyone have any updated news on when Lansing, MI will get HD locals through DirecTV?

Thanks, Nick
Nick-------------HD locals DirecTV/Lansing

I just spoke with em again this morning, and no good news! They still do not know when.
John

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 11:21 AM

I'm still not seeing channel 10.2 even though the signal strength meter says it should be there.

jefbal99

02-17-09, 11:42 AM

Nick-------------HD locals DirecTV/Lansing

I just spoke with em again this morning, and no good news! They still do not know when.
John

Over on DBStalk, SatelliteRacer indicated that a Michigan DMA will be getting HD LiL from DirecTV in 2009 and Lansing is the top rumor. No date yet...

I rescanned my H20 from DirecTV and found the new WILX location and Weather Source, however, just shy of 8am they were breaking up horribly. My HR20 had not received any updated guide info from DirecTV yet. I tried to redo the antenna setup there, but the scanning feature is disabled. Hopefully it gets resolved before tonight.

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 11:52 AM

The problem is not on WILX's end, it is with my DirecTV AM-21 OTA tuner. I did a rescan and reset, but the AM-21 does not want to show me 10.2 even though it is showing 10.1 just fine. I have some calls in to try to get this figured out.

I plugged my rabbit ears directly into my TV's tuner and 10.2 is fine there

jefbal99

02-17-09, 11:55 AM

Nick-------------HD locals DirecTV/Lansing

I just spoke with em again this morning, and no good news! They still do not know when.
John

The problem is not on WILX's end, it is with my DirecTV AM-21 OTA tuner. I did a rescan and reset, but the AM-21 does not want to show me 10.2 even though it is showing 10.1 just fine. I have some calls in to try to get this figured out.

I plugged my rabbit ears directly into my TV's tuner and 10.2 is fine there

You are getting 10.1 from an HR2X? I'll have to try another rescan when I get home.

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 12:15 PM

I'm getting 10.1 through the AM-21 tuner plugged into an HR-22. I've had no problem getting 10.1 since doing the rescan early this morning, but that box refuses to show 10.2 no matter how many times I rescan and reset.

garybliev

02-17-09, 12:19 PM

twaller

02-17-09, 12:21 PM

On my HR20 there was nothing on 10.1 when I tried at 5:30 this am. I'm hoping that the guide and freq tables were updated this morning.
On second thought, I still may be out of luck because I have a 91XG UHF antenna.......

jefbal99

02-17-09, 01:26 PM

I'm going to try and rerun the setup again this evening and hope that will resolve it. I wish the HR20 would just have the scan enabled, rather than only using what D* pushes to us.

mathwhiz

02-17-09, 01:44 PM

Both WLNS and WLAJ are transmitting the correct channel information.

Thanks for checking - I'll have to rescan again when I get home and see what is up. I'm getting good at this rescanning - I'll be all set when I need to rescan for WKAR :)

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 02:30 PM

I'm going to try and rerun the setup again this evening and hope that will resolve it. I wish the HR20 would just have the scan enabled, rather than only using what D* pushes to us.

I'm thinking that is the problem with showing post-cut 10.2 on the D* receiver. If my guess is correct, the D* OTA receivers are tied to the program guide info in their database. If I'm right, D* OTA receivers are not like other tuners that read for frequencies and then use the carried information for channel assignments and program info, but rather the program guide dictates to the receiver what channel is coming in on which frequency and how to show it. If Direct's program guide databanks were not changed to reflect 10.2's frequency change, the receiver won't show 10.2 until D* amends their information. I would further guess 10.1's cut information was already set in their database but 10.2 slipped through the cracks.

jefbal99

02-17-09, 03:02 PM

I'm thinking that is the problem with showing post-cut 10.2 on the D* receiver. If my guess is correct, the D* OTA receivers are tied to the program guide info in their database. If I'm right, D* OTA receivers are not like other tuners that read for frequencies and then use the carried information for channel assignments and program info, but rather the program guide dictates to the receiver what channel is coming in on which frequency and how to show it. If Direct's program guide databanks were not changed to reflect 10.2's frequency change, the receiver won't show 10.2 until D* amends their information. I would further guess 10.1's cut information was already set in their database but 10.2 slipped through the cracks.

I couldn't get 10.1 to work on my HR20 this morning.

mathwhiz

02-17-09, 03:39 PM

That would make sense for the DTV receivers. TiVos are similar. You can scan for channels and it finds ones that aren't in the channel lineup/guide data. This morning after I scanned I had two 10.1's and two 10.2's one on the old frequency with guide data and the new frequency without guide data.

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 03:52 PM

The story gets even more interesting. I am moving, which is why I got the HR-22 & AM-21 (it was cheaper as part of the D* moving program). I kept my H20 receiver. I just hooked it up and used the old amplified rabbit ears with a rescan. It is showing 10.1 and 10.2 with no problem. It also still shows 23.5 in the program guide.

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 04:06 PM

Rumor is that my hypothesis is correct. The D* program guides dictate to the tuner what to expect. D* did not get their database fully updated with the frequency changes and are working on it now. They had similar problems in many other markets. The changes should be completed on the program guides in a day or two, which may necessitate yet another reset & rescan to get the updated program guides working with the new frequencies.

garybliev

02-17-09, 05:21 PM

garybliev

02-17-09, 05:21 PM

Thanks for checking - I'll have to rescan again when I get home and see what is up. I'm getting good at this rescanning - I'll be all set when I need to rescan for WKAR :)

See 'ya June 13.

localnet

02-17-09, 05:27 PM

Any word on when we will get Lansing locals in HD on Directv?

cornell_lingus

02-17-09, 05:28 PM

Cool, what are running on 23.5 ?

Those amplified rabbit ears aren't enough to pull in any of the WKAR channels so I don't know what's on 23.5. Just as well. Me, I think it's one of them channels the aliens use to communicate without their signals sticking out so they can be detected. WKAR takes government money, so that could be a channel controlled by the NSA too, where you watch stuff but in reality they're watching you watch stuff.

mathwhiz

02-17-09, 05:56 PM

I thought 23.5 was the channel that scanned the house for credit card numbers - we have to pay for this digital transition somehow! :) :)

maggiefan

02-17-09, 08:17 PM

So, what's up with WILX? I've done three scans on my TV today and still nothing. It was fine before the shutdown of the analog signal. It's missing on the TiVo too. Have they reduced their power?

ZeroCorpse

02-17-09, 08:25 PM

Well, the switchover has screwed me for now. I live in an apartment, and I used to get WILX 10.1 and 10.2 just fine; About 3 or 4 bars of signal strength.

Today, with the switch, I don't get them at all indoors. An antenna placed outside barely gets WILX, but loses the signal too often to be useful.

I'm getting a TERK antenna that will snap onto my (unused) satellite dish, and will be powered/boosted via my (unused) satellite receiver. Hopefully that will make a difference.

What happened, WILX? Why did I get the signal before, but now the signal is WEAKER..? I thought the switch was supposed to allow WILX to broadcast digital at higher power than previously.

This sucks. It's Conan's last week and we can't watch it, or anything else on NBC.

mathwhiz

02-17-09, 09:21 PM

One problem that may be affecting viewers of WILX is that WILX went from UHF channel 57 to VHF channel 10. If your antenna that you were using was designed for UHF only it might not pick up the VHF signal at all or very weak.

On my hand - after another scan of channels everything is good to go for me - once TiVo gets their lineup changed.

ZeroCorpse

02-17-09, 09:56 PM

Nope. It's a VHF/UHF antenna. It's pointed at 207 degrees. It's no further away now than it was yesterday.

I'm certain something is wrong. I'm unable to get ANYTHING inside, even with a boosted antenna, and antennaweb says I should be able to get it in with a basic set of rabbit ears.

EDIT: As of 10:53 PM, after dozens of rescans, I'm still unable to tune in 10.1 and 10.2 via any one of my antennas. I've tried the boosted one inside, and several others outside. No luck. Not even a hint of a signal from WILX.

I really don't want to have to pay Comcast anything... I hate cable! And satellite doesn't have locals here!

Yankees368

02-17-09, 11:32 PM

I'm having severe pixelation and breakup on WILX tonight. It's unwatchable right now, but was fine earlier. Fine tuning at the station?

cornell_lingus

02-18-09, 12:06 AM

If you have a D* DVR you should delete and redo any recording presets after your successful rescan & reset when each station switches frequencies. I had a recording set for 10.1 tonight I had entered last week. When I got home I tuned to 10.1 during the recording time and the channel was blank until I stopped the recording. When I tried to tune 10.1 after stopping the recording, it tuned fine and I was able to record the remainder of the program. It looks like the timer retains the old frequency information from the program guide at the time you create the setting and is not updated in the rescan/reset process. I will wager this will be true for any DVR that depends on a program guide from an outside source such as DirecTV or TMS.

maggiefan

02-18-09, 12:29 AM

stewa

02-18-09, 08:06 AM

I am in Williamston and tv tuner was able to lock on to WILX after a few rescans. Reception still varies between solid and nonexistent.

garybliev

02-18-09, 09:56 AM

I'm getting a TERK antenna that will snap onto my (unused) satellite dish, and will be powered/boosted via my (unused) satellite receiver. Hopefully that will make a difference.

WILX like almost all television signals is horizontally polarized, check that your Terk has VHF elements and that the orientation will allow it to be aimed toward Onondaga with the radials largely horizontal. If you are north or south of Onondaga the radials should be east-west oriented.

garybliev

02-18-09, 09:58 AM

I am in Williamston and tv tuner was able to lock on to WILX after a few rescans. Reception still varies between solid and nonexistent.

I'm getting them in my office in the CAS building on Campus with a Terk HDTVa with the VHF radials fully extended and at about eight feet above ground level. Looking out a south facing window though the trees and the parking ramp.

Check that you have VHF elements, that they are extended, and adjust aiming.

(Many "digital" antennas sold recently are UHF only and have very little VHF capability)

garybliev

02-18-09, 10:04 AM

Same situation for me, in an apartment with only indoor antenna for now anyway and I've done four scans so far and nothing on 10.1 or 10.2. I wonder if their power is reduced for some reason. Got them fine before.

Remember they moved from UHF (channel 57) to VHF (channel 10). With the move did come a reduction of power assigned but with the tremendous physical advantages of VHF propagation that come with the large change in frequency.

Make sure your antenna has VHF elements and that they are fully extended and aimed "cross wise" toward Onondaga.

garybliev

02-18-09, 10:07 AM

Nope. It's a VHF/UHF antenna. It's pointed at 207 degrees. It's no further away now than it was yesterday.

EDIT: As of 10:53 PM, after dozens of rescans, I'm still unable to tune in 10.1 and 10.2 via any one of my antennas. I've tried the boosted one inside, and several others outside. No luck. Not even a hint of a signal from WILX.
!

Approximately where do you live?

ZeroCorpse

02-18-09, 11:36 AM

I'm in Okemos, near Grand River Ave., and yeah- I spent a large amount of time yesterday trying to get WILX in, to no avail.

Maybe I'll have better luck with a powered antenna outside (the aforementioned TERK that's on the way), but I'm not holding out any hope. I"m in an apartment complex and I get the feeling that the signal is just bouncing around in here like a pinball. The few times I got anything, it was very poor and lasted seconds.

If this is the power they're broadcasting at, then I may be stuck paying for cable now. So much for the digital revolution. It's not like I can mount a roof antenna on the apartment building, or put a 20-foot pole outside. Landlords tend not to like that.

I still think WILX is at low power. It doesn't make sense that AntennaWeb says I should be fine with the most basic antenna available, and yet I can't even get anything with a powered antenna.

By the way, if anyone from WILX is out there-- Your DTV info page still refers to needing a UHF antenna, which as we know is wrong. You might want to update that so that people don't spend forever trying to tune you in with a UHF-only setup.

SRussell

02-18-09, 11:41 AM

I too am noticing reduced 10.1 reception. I am running a DB2 antenna indoors mounted on a tripod approx 10 ft. above ground, facing South from lansing. Can't get more than 62-65 strength on my ViP722 OTA tuner, picture is horribly pixelated. I guess I will need to accelerate my plan to purchase the Omnidirectional antenna I was thinking about.

garybliev

02-18-09, 12:12 PM

I too am noticing reduced 10.1 reception. I am running a DB2 antenna indoors mounted on a tripod approx 10 ft. above ground, facing South from lansing.

The DB2 is a UHF antenna, you need a VHF antenna.

maybe this one: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=C2

Stay away from omnidirectional flying saucers.

garybliev

02-18-09, 12:14 PM

I still think WILX is at low power. It doesn't make sense that AntennaWeb says I should be fine with the most basic antenna available, and yet I can't even get anything with a powered antenna.

The most basic antennaweb antenna is still an outdoor antenna.

garybliev

02-18-09, 12:19 PM

By the way, if anyone from WILX is out there-- Your DTV info page still refers to needing a UHF antenna, which as we know is wrong. You might want to update that so that people don't spend forever trying to tune you in with a UHF-only setup.

You're right, I assume it is left over from the DTV on channel 57 days. I've sent them a note about it.

garybliev

02-18-09, 12:23 PM

I'm in Okemos, near Grand River Ave., and yeah-

You are in the shadow of WLNS-TV, WLNS-DT, WHTV-DT, WKAR-DT, and WKAR-FM. It would be very easy for an amplified antenna to be overloaded by the closer stronger signals.

Having said that, I'm using the Terk HDTVa in my office with the pre-amp on, but I am aimed off-axis from WLNS and WKAR with the antenna aimed a bit west of south.

How many walls does your antenna have to "see" through to "see" a signal from Onondaga?

Yankees368

02-18-09, 12:39 PM

garybliev

02-18-09, 01:16 PM

I don't know what's going on for me. I can either pick up WILX, or WHTV, but not the both at the same time. If i align the antenna to get WILX, WHTV vanished, and the other way around. Am I doing something wrong>

Nothing. Welcome to the world of digital television. Re-aiming to maximize the antenna gain while reducing the multipath (reflections) is normal. WHTV is in Okemos and WILX is in Onondaga.

spotdog14

02-18-09, 08:45 PM

Same situation for me, in an apartment with only indoor antenna for now anyway and I've done four scans so far and nothing on 10.1 or 10.2. I wonder if their power is reduced for some reason. Got them fine before.

Same here, I live in Haslett and lost 10 all together. I have yet to plug in my roof antenna to see if I get it. I will probably do that this weekend. But my bedroom tv with an indoor antenna does not get it (yes its UHF and VHF) its just gone.

SRussell

02-18-09, 09:24 PM

garybliev

02-18-09, 10:02 PM

Gary, thanks for the recommendation, I was thinking about going with one of the ufo looking antennas. My dad has one mounted on his roof and gets more channels than me. I ordered the C4 instead of the C2, it will eventually be going outside anyway so I went bigger.

Fine print: it was a suggestion, not a recommendation. The U gets mad at me if I make a recommendation w/out official authorization.

garybliev

02-18-09, 10:17 PM

Same here, I live in Haslett and lost 10 all together. I have yet to plug in my roof antenna to see if I get it. I will probably do that this weekend. But my bedroom tv with an indoor antenna does not get it (yes its UHF and VHF) its just gone.

Things to try:

From Haslett the VHF rabbit ears (antenna) needs to be extended in an east-west direction so that the broadside aims toward Onondaga (almost due South) The reference listed below recommends 29" tip-to-tip extension for VHF channel 10 The antenna must be horizontal.

Some receivers are terribly stupid and because they had seen an analog channel 10 keep expecting to see an analog channel 10 and do not look for it in digital. If you haven't already done so, you need to do a full channel scan not just punch in the "10" It may still be looking for DTV on the abandoned channel 57.

Older CRT television sets actually emit a small amount of radio frequency noise in the VHF band, just moving the antenna a few feet away can help. If your antenna is directly above the TV set, try to move it a few feet away if you can. You may need a six foot or more RF cable to extend it with an "F to F" barrel.

How many walls between your antenna and the outside world facing south? You might need to move the antenna to a location near a window even if it does not face south to try to get a reflection.

Google found a lot of information about antennas at:
http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html

ZeroCorpse

02-19-09, 12:41 AM

The big issue for me is that I'm in the middle of an apartment building, and the building is stacked north-south. That means I've got about a dozen walls (give or take a dozen) between my apartment and the end of the building.

It's looking like I'm stuck with cable. I've got a TERK TV42 (the kind that attaches to a sat dish) on the way, and my dish is pointed southward. I'll have to hook the TERK to my old sat receiver to get power to it, but I'm hoping that since the dish is out about five feet away from the building, that the antenna will get a clearer signal mounted there.

The real question is: If I do manage to get in 10.1, then what channels will I lose in that effort? Right now I get about a dozen digital channels. I can live without some of them (43.3, 43.4, 23.2) but others I'd really like to keep without having to adjust the antenna outside.

And of course, mounting outside is a pain for an apartment, because I need to use the stupid flat coax cables to get a connection out there through my patio door.

I'll give some more tries with various antennas, including the TERK, and get back here with my results, later. I think I may just haul out one of my old cheap-o VHF rabbit ears from an old TV to see if they work better. Wish me luck.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

spotdog14

02-19-09, 09:17 AM

Things to try:

From Haslett the VHF rabbit ears (antenna) needs to be extended in an east-west direction so that the broadside aims toward Onondaga (almost due South) The reference listed below recommends 29" tip-to-tip extension for VHF channel 10 The antenna must be horizontal.

Some receivers are terribly stupid and because they had seen an analog channel 10 keep expecting to see an analog channel 10 and do not look for it in digital. If you haven't already done so, you need to do a full channel scan not just punch in the "10" It may still be looking for DTV on the abandoned channel 57.

Older CRT television sets actually emit a small amount of radio frequency noise in the VHF band, just moving the antenna a few feet away can help. If your antenna is directly above the TV set, try to move it a few feet away if you can. You may need a six foot or more RF cable to extend it with an "F to F" barrel.

How many walls between your antenna and the outside world facing south? You might need to move the antenna to a location near a window even if it does not face south to try to get a reflection.

Google found a lot of information about antennas at:
http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html

Thank you for the tips, there is one wall between my antenna and the south. I did a full rescan, but will continue to do so throughout the week, my tuner is a "stupid" tuner, it gets confused very easily. Its funny I purchased 2 "HDTV" indoor antennas a while ago and were never satisfied with them so I just put them in the basement, I took them out this week to see if I could get WILX with them instead of the current antenna I was using (no luck, they are actually worse than the antenna I am using). But I will continue to try.

Right now I have this antenna:
http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14202&langId=-1
http://www.audiovox.com/images/products/TV4_x.jpg

Don't be making fun of me, it actually works amazingly well. If I position it correctly I can get WLAJ, WSYM, WLNS, WKAR (and I use to get WILX) without changing the orientation of the antenna at all, and it usually doesnt pixelate much at all either.

garybliev

02-19-09, 11:30 AM

Right now I have this antenna:
http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14202&langId=-1
http://www.audiovox.com/images/products/TV4_x.jpg

.

We did a visit a few months ago to a viewer on the west side of Lansing that had reception problems on channel 23 analog. She had that model antenna. It is amazingly directional. Try turning it a few degrees at a time to see if WILX will come in.

spartanalum23

02-19-09, 12:35 PM

stewa

02-19-09, 01:39 PM

I have tried everything (I think) on my D* HR20 to get 10-1 and 10-2 to come in now. I have a VHF HD antenna, as I did before the switch, and I have reset the box in hopes of the channels coming back in. Is there something that I need to do to have the channes with their new signals to be received by my box?

By "reset" do you mean rescan? Some of us have had to rescan several times to get the tuner to find WILX now. Also check to make sure your antenna is pointed correctly for their tower.

jefbal99

02-19-09, 02:05 PM

There was a note about avoiding omni directional flying saucers and i must COMPLETELY DISAGREE with that comment.

I have the Wingard MS2000 and have had no issues with it. Mo multipath issues and great reception. I'm on the Westside of Lansing near the Saginaw/Waverly intersection and get all our locals, plus a few out of Grand Rapids and Flint.

I have no worries about changing its point to get one station, then moving for another station. It is both VHF and UHF.

Just because something doesn't work for one person, it may work very well for others...

When purchasing an antenna, make sure of the return policy for the retailer. Ensure that if you have problems with reception you can return it for a full refund/in store credit to select a different option that may work better.

Also, my issue with my HR20-100 from DirecTV has partially been resolved. 10.1 is coming in fine, but 10.2 is still missing. I added that to the issues thread over at DBSTalk so that it will get sent to DirecTV.

jefbal99

02-19-09, 02:06 PM

spartanalum23

02-19-09, 02:07 PM

When I say "reset", I mean pushing the red dot behind the flip-box. I called D* and asked about "rescanning" and the tech acted as if I was referring to "resetting" the system. I had seen on the site people referring to "rescanning", but I assummed it was referring to the converter box. How do I go about "rescanning" on the D* box?

garybliev

02-19-09, 03:02 PM

Just because something doesn't work for one person, it may work very well for others...

The "antenna man" earlier said that has has had good success with those omnidirectional antennas as well.

My next door neighbor has the Wiengard and he is very happy with it.

But I have had many many calls from viewers who do have problems with reception and do have the flying saucer.

HD74

02-19-09, 04:05 PM

I think the flying saucer antenna Gary was referring to is the Radio Shack model, while it is called an omni, it is DECIDEDLY directional, with lobes all over the place. This antenna does not work as well as you might think, that being said, I am receiving WILX just fine using one here in Lansing at the Frandor interchange, took one re-scan on a Sylvania HD set to get them, ION (31) came back up a little later in the day, and I see them well also.
On another antennasubject, the C-4 from antennas direct does not work as well as the C-2, I use the C-1 and C-2, and get good results with them, they are kind of set and forget. From my home in Northern Jackson County, I have C-1 and a C-2 on stands about 10 feet high both pointed due North, after re-scanning, I found WILX and WLNS tied for highest signal, (100 for both) and all other stations in the market are above 70, the lowest signal received are the ION twins, 31 and 43, one off the east and one off the west side of the antenna, both watchable (no pixellization) but signal strengths in the 50's. The C-4 is very narrow beamed, you must use it with a rotor, as it will not pull from the sides.

lathos42

02-19-09, 04:30 PM

I too lost WILX after their switch to 10. I have a Terk HDTVa located on the second floor of my house, and even when I have it in one of my rooms upstairs with a south facing window, and I can't get a stable enough signal to get a picture. I've tried the dipoles extended in a v-shape, straight horizontal, and I even tried adjusting them to the "optimum" length. I live off of Waverly just north of Holmes, so WILX is almost exactly directly south of me.

I'm afraid I might have to break down and get a larger antenna for my roof, or just wait patiently for DirecTV to have our locals in HD. I do get to enjoy all of the other stations with a beautiful HD signal thanks to the HDTVa, I just can't pick anything up from WILX. I have the antenna hooked up to a HDHomeRun, and while the signal strength is at 100%, the Signal and Symbol quality meters show nothing. I've tried it with and without the amplifier turned on with no success.

Thanks to this thread and others on here, I've learned much more about OTA DTV than I ever thought I would.

Any suggestions for tuning my HDTVa, or am I probably out of luck without an outside antenna?

ZeroCorpse

02-19-09, 04:51 PM

Update:

I got the TERK TV 42, and have had no luck with it. I get nothing from it at all, and I'm certain that has to do with the way the amplifier power is set up; It requires a sat receiver to be connected, and mine is a newer D12-300 that will not pass-through an OTA signal if you don't have a current DTV subscription-- And I don't anymore.

I did have momentary victory with a set of cheap-o Radio Shack rabbit ears, placed against a back wall with the horizontal configuration and 29" recommendation in use... But it faded and won't come back, now.

If I hold the antenna about 7 feet in the air, in the middle of the room, and point it toward Onandaga, I get a signal and it stays. The problem there is that I've no way to make that position permanent, and I'm not going to stand there and hold it!

If I move out of that one sweet spot, I lose the signal, no matter how I arrange the antenna.

I may need a better antenna... I'm shopping around. I guess I'm willing to spend up to $100 to get a decent one that will work INDOORS, and will pull in all the locals despite my being on the bottom floor, in the middle of a building, in an area with some big trees (well, I mean, it's Michigan. There are trees everywhere).

Any suggestions?

HD74

02-19-09, 05:26 PM

[QUOTE=lathos42;15863766]the signal strength is at 100%, the Signal and Symbol quality meters show nothing. I've tried it with and without the amplifier turned on with no success.

This is indicative of a need to re-scan, your receiver is pulling channel 10 rf, but does not recognize it as a digital signal. Please note, update is not a complete re-scan, as channel 10 has moved, a complete re-scan is necessary. I experimented with a Radio Shack set top box after 10 moved, did an update scan, got 2 10-1's, and 2 10-2's, one of each worked, one was a dud. A complete re-scan removed the duds, and WILX just screams in.

tr2n

02-19-09, 06:09 PM

Can we get a list of working HDTV antenna's for WILX? I know it's also going to depend on where you live, but I have the HDTVa as a few others have and I have not been able to get WILX anymore.

I'm not sure if I can install an outdoor antenna at my apartment, so I am looking for indoor. I live near Meijer on Lake Lansing Road in East Lansing. Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

lathos42

02-19-09, 06:17 PM

the signal strength is at 100%, the Signal and Symbol quality meters show nothing. I've tried it with and without the amplifier turned on with no success.

This is indicative of a need to re-scan, your receiver is pulling channel 10 rf, but does not recognize it as a digital signal. Please note, update is not a complete re-scan, as channel 10 has moved, a complete re-scan is necessary. I experimented with a Radio Shack set top box after 10 moved, did an update scan, got 2 10-1's, and 2 10-2's, one of each worked, one was a dud. A complete re-scan removed the duds, and WILX just screams in.

The HDHomeRun has a utility that lets me select the actual physical channel and it will tell me what is on that channel and how good of a Digital signal that I'm getting along with what Station is broadcasting there. When I scan with my regular TV, WILX doesn't show up there either.

cornell_lingus

02-19-09, 07:04 PM

While I was out today, D* must have entered the correct frequency information for WILX-DT. Channel 10.2 is now showing loud and proud on my HR-22/AM-21.

I set up another H20 for a friend last night and also had no problem getting 10.1 and 10.2 on his unit. It looks like the H-20 and HR-22/AM-21 units are squared away and reading WILX-DT all right now, any other D* units out there?

cornell_lingus

02-19-09, 07:06 PM

cornell_lingus

02-19-09, 07:17 PM

I have tried everything (I think) on my D* HR20 to get 10-1 and 10-2 to come in now. I have a VHF HD antenna, as I did before the switch, and I have reset the box in hopes of the channels coming back in. Is there something that I need to do to have the channes with their new signals to be received by my box?

H-20 digital TV rescan: Go to the system setup page. From there, Sat &Ant>Antenna Setup>Scan For Channels. Run the scan. After you run the scan, rerun Initial Setup on the Antenna Setup page again to remap the program guide. You will have to do the same thing when the remaining stations cut to their new frequencies.

lathos42

02-19-09, 07:35 PM

Update: I fiddled with Antenna Placement a little more tonight, and I'm finally able to get WILX if I place my Antenna in front of the west facing window in the room I have my Tuner in. With the Antenna Parallel to the Window with the Dipoles fully extended, I finally get a signal that is fairly stable. The only problem with this location is that I no longer get FOX 47 and ABC 3, so I'll probably have to use two antennas with a VHF/UHF Combiner. I'm not sure if the fates have just aligned properly tonight, and I'll be out of luck tomorrow, but we'll see.

ZeroCorpse

02-19-09, 07:56 PM

OK... So here are my two choices, and my questions:

1. Get a big outdoor multidirectional antenna, and hope that I can find a way to install it on my patio without bugging the landlord, and that being installed no more than 6' above the ground in an area filled with two-story buildings would be worth the trouble, just to get WILX to come in.

2. Accept the fact that WILX pretty much screwed us in the northern part of Lansing by switching to VHF, and subscribe to cable despite the fact that my wife will be rather upset at the extra expense of yet another monthly bill.

I'm leaning toward #2 (Comcast), simply because I'm sick of adjusting, re-connecting, re-scanning, and dealing with all the B.S. that comes with antennas when you're an apartment dweller.

So my questions are as follows:

If I subscribe to Limited Basic cable, will my Samsung HDTV be able to scan the HD locals from that package, or will I need Comcast's HD box to do it? The same question with Expanded Basic-- Is HD in there, or does Comcast reserve the right to make me pay extra for HD locals? I don't care about the other channels, but I'd at least better be able to get the same thing I'd get with an outdoor antenna for what I pay them.

If I get a big outdoor antenna, can anyone suggest one that is multidirectional and capable of tuning in VHF 10.1 and 10.2 -- I'm finding a lot of directional UHF outdoor antennas, but not so many that support VHF without aiming, and for me, aiming will probably be out of the question.

I do not want to get into Comcast's digital cable because it's just too expensive for my needs. I don't want the ton of channels, and I don't really want to have to lease a cable box. I *do* have an older cable box (non HD, AFAIK) and might mess with that on my own, but I'd rather not have to add to my cable bill... Getting my wife to accept the price of Basic cable will be hard enough (she's very frugal when it comes to entertainment).

Any answers would be appreciated.

I would also like to take a moment to ask the guys at WILX, with all due respect: WHY?!?! Why did you choose to switch to VHF instead of sticking with UHF digital? It was so easy to pick up on UHF! I can't understand the reasoning behind a move that pretty much cut-off every apartment-dwelling person in the northern part of the Lansing area (including Okemos and Haslett) who uses OTA. This was a bad decision. UHF was better for us, and if the whole point was just to keep your station number (10) then I have to say that it was a lousy, terrible choice you made.

That's my opinion, anyway. I think a lot of people up here might agree.

TTRider

02-19-09, 08:56 PM

For those having problems with WILX, check out their web site. They want to hear from you. Send an e-mail to DTV@WILX.com.

spartanalum23

02-19-09, 08:58 PM

hr-20 is another D* unit needed

jefbal99

02-19-09, 10:19 PM

hr-20 is another D* unit needed

I'm getting 10.2 on my HR20-100 tonight.

spartanalum23, i replied to your PM with a couple of questions

jefbal99

02-19-09, 10:22 PM

cornell_lingus

02-19-09, 11:03 PM

OK... So here are my two choices, and my questions:
<snipped>
.

Look at a flatter bow antenna like a Channel Master 4221 instead of a traditional boom antenna. Getting a 2, 4 or 8 bay antenna is less obtrusive than the traditional aerial.

Channel 57 was not a permanent option for WILX. All channel frequencies above 51 are being reallocated to other uses. Stations can request frequencies, but ultimately the FCC decides who gets what.

cornell_lingus

02-19-09, 11:04 PM

hr-20 is another D* unit needed

I already answered this question in post 1718. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15865226#post15865226)

Adrian D

02-19-09, 11:51 PM

Here are my results from the WILX change.

I have a Dish VIP622 receiver, and get my local HD channels OTA using an outdoor antenna Channel Master 4221.
That antenna is supposed to be for UHF and not VHF.

After the switch, I got a signal but not video or audio, so I did a rescan.

After the rescan, I can get 10.1 and 10.2 with no issues. The curious thing is the signal strength went from a solid 100 to 90. This has caused no issues so far.

I am very pleased that my antenna is able to get the new WILX.

spartanalum23

02-20-09, 07:02 AM

jefbal99

02-20-09, 09:27 AM

You were referring to the H-20, which is a different model than the HR-20. When I went to do the rescan, I was able to go as far as the Antenna Setup option and then there is no choice of "Scan for Channels" as indicated, so I'm assuming there is a difference between the two models.

That is correct.

The H20 has scanning enabled and find any channels that it can detect.

The HR2X/AM21 doesn't have scanning enabled and won't. The Antenna setup asks you for you Primary zipcode and a Secondary zipcode. The IRD then downloads data from D*. Sometimes D* doesn't have certain channels in the guide. When you rerun the antenna setup, the data downloaded from D* has the channel frequencies. It then adds all the channels to your EPG, whether your antenna can detect it or not.

cornell_lingus

02-20-09, 09:41 AM

Direct was supposed to have all HR-xx guide information updated with new frequenices as of Thursday night. If you have the D* external tuner hooked up to your HR-xx properly, go to System Setup>Sat & Ant>Antenna Setup>Reset Off-Air Settings. Run that, then run Initial Setup off the Antenna Setup page. Channels 10.1 and 10.2 should both be showing now.

spartanalum23

02-20-09, 09:55 AM

Thanx. I will try that again since they have updated them last night.

jm_etue

02-21-09, 09:18 AM

I know this was asked about on the old thread, so I decided to list the QAM channels I get from Comcast if you want to add them to the listing above. This is on the East Lansing network, so Lansing might be different.

2-3 The Golf Channel (SD)
12-3 WLAJ-HD – ABC Affiliate
13-3 WLNS-DT – CBS Affiliate
17-x Comcast iN DEMAND stations
18-x (Occasionally something appears here, not sure what station it is)
25-2 WILX-HD – NBC Affiliate
25-3 WKAR-HD – PBS Affiliate
25-14 WILX-WX – Local Weather (SD)
26-1 Disney Channel (SD)
26-2 Nickelodeon (SD)
26-4 Food Network (SD)
26-5 CNN (SD)
26-6 C-SPAN (SD)
26-7 C-SPAN2 (SD)
26-9 SOAPnet (SD)
26-10 diy (SD)
26-11 C-SPAN3 (SD)
26-12 The Weather Channel (SD)
68-x Digital music stations
69-9 The History Channel (SD)
69-10 Bravo (SD)
69-11 HGTV (SD)
74-4 G4 (SD)
76-11 CMT (SD)

Has anyone re-scanned for these since Feb 17th and seen a change?
I know Comcast is constantly making changes, but I can't find any of the in-the-clear QAM channels.

HillsdaleBob

02-21-09, 01:04 PM

I also can no longer get Channel 10.1 or 10.2 OTA. They came in perfectly when they were broadcasting using UHF, but the switch to VHF has changed all that. I am in Hillsdale and using a Radio Shack DA5200 amplified antenna which is mounted on my roof facing the channel 10 tower.

It appears that not only did they switch to VHF, they also are broadcasting at a pretty low power level.

I have complained to the FCC about this, not that it will probably do any good.

Probably I'll have to toss the $60 Radio Shack antenna and spring for a giant $100 - $200 antenna. I'm not happy.

mathwhiz

02-21-09, 01:37 PM

WILX does have a request in to the FCC to increase their power. So all the FCC has to do is approve the request and they can crank it up :)

Egret

02-21-09, 05:21 PM

I finally found a sweet spot for channel 10 with my HR20 I'm using an old silver sensor thrown in the ceiling of my basement. I have to lay it horizontally with one of the back corners facing towards Onondaga. It barely works. I had to fiddle with it for awhile so I could make sure I recorded the last episode of Conan. Thankfully the other stations still come in.

SMWinnie

02-21-09, 07:45 PM

WILX does have a request in to the FCC to increase their power. So all the FCC has to do is approve the request and they can crank it up :)
As I read it, they're at 15kW now. What have they asked for? (Is that the 30kW application from last June? Heck, I'm a lawyer and I can barely make heads or tails out of the FCC filings database.)

Trip in VA

02-21-09, 07:53 PM

As I read it, they're at 15kW now. What have they asked for? (Is that the 30kW application from last June? Heck, I'm a lawyer and I can barely make heads or tails out of the FCC filings database.)

30 kW, the FCC power limit.

- Trip

fajitamosaic

02-21-09, 08:43 PM

SMWinnie

02-21-09, 08:59 PM

I'm pulling in some signal from WILX in our basement apartment, but all sorts of positioning Kung Fu with three different antennas gets about 30% signal strength at best.... a real bummer, since the only option I have left is trying tin foil!
MASTER PO: Grasshopper, you must extend your arms just so.
KWAI CHANG CAINE: Yes, Master.
MASTER PO: Only by overcoming the fatigue will we see whether KITT gets its chip back from KARR.
KWAI CHANG CAINE: Yes, Master.
MASTER PO: D*mn, this show is even less plausible than the one with that guy from Baywatch.

HillsdaleBob

02-21-09, 09:07 PM

30 kW, the FCC power limit.

- Trip

30 kW is the limit? Really? Not according to:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/60648

Trip in VA

02-21-09, 09:14 PM

30 kW is the limit? Really? Not according to:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/60648

Michigan is not Miami.

The country is divided into multiple zones. This is Zone I:

http://www.rabbitears.info/Zone1.jpg

In Zone I, stations have a lower cap than they do in Zones II and III. This is because stations in Zone I are packed MUCH closer together than stations in Zones II and III.

In Zone I, the power cap for upper VHF is 30 kW.
In Zones II and III, the power cap for upper VHF is 160 kW.

Since the Lansing area is in Zone I, the limit for WILX-DT is 30 kW.

- Trip

HillsdaleBob

02-22-09, 10:21 AM

mathwhiz

02-22-09, 11:16 AM

So we just need to move Lansing!

Trip in VA

02-22-09, 11:19 AM

Ahh, I see. Do you know of a map somewhere that shows the zones for the entire county? It seems to me the stations are packed pretty close together in southeast Florida. Interestingly Columbus, Ohio seems to be in Zone 1, but the FCC spreadsheet seems to show Channel 6 (WSYX) at 59 kW (I could be reading the spreadsheet incorrectly). If you check out the WSYX website (http://www.wsyx6.com/) you will see that they are pretty concerned that even at that power people can/will not be able to pick up their VHF DTV signal. They are encouraging people to make sure their antennas pick up both VHF and UHF signals - unlike WILX.

As far as a map of the zones, it really doesn't matter. Zone I is the only one with different power requirements. Zone III used to have different spacing requirements than Zone II (but the same power caps) but that's out the window with the digital transition. For the sake of completeness, though:

http://www.rabbitears.info/Zone3.jpg

Note that it includes all of Florida, not just the circled region. In Zone III, stations had to have an extra 30 miles between them than in Zone II. They were kept further apart, rather than closer together.

WSYX is a special case. They argued that they needed the extra power to replicate their low-VHF channel 6 coverage area, and the FCC bought it. Well, Sinclair corporate policy is to have all their stations on UHF (because of mobile DTV more than anything else) so WSYX has a petition with the FCC to relocate from channel 13 to channel 48. They attempted to get relocated to channel 28 during the channel election process but the FCC wouldn't go for it.

- Trip

LITEGUY2004

02-22-09, 03:11 PM

I lost my digital-Hd signal on wilx. I did a rescan onboth of my tv s. Wilx came back on. Weird situation. On my 22LG30 Kitchen hd tv 10.1 and 10.2 come in fine.

On my bedroom sony 55xs I the channels show up as 10.3 ans 10.4.

Not a big deal -----Just confused.

John

Trip in VA

02-22-09, 03:19 PM

Do a full rescan on the Sony, not just an "Add New Channels."

- Trip

ZeroCorpse

02-22-09, 05:53 PM

If your TV has a QAM tuner, then subscribe to Comcasts $15/month basic local package. The Big 5 (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, & PBS) are all in clear QAM. Got my parents an LCD for christmas and they have that Comcast package.

If you have Comcast HSI, just toss a cable line on your TV and see what happens.

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't use Comcast for HSI (they limit bandwidth and I do streaming video on three different devices, so they're not a good fit for me. 6MB DSL has been good to me.)

However, I signed up for Limited Basic Cable, and my Samsung Series 3 HDTV passes the QAM test with flying colors! WILX is back, and I get WGN, TBS, and a few others to boot.

I don't normally like dealing with Comcast, but I have to say they were quick and I'm satisfied (for now). I called on Friday and they had my cable switched on by Saturday afternoon; That's a record for them. Usually I have to wait a week for an appointment, and then sit around all day waiting for the guy to show.

It's unfortunate WILX had to switch to a more finicky frequency, but the relatively low price for limited basic cable gives a few bonuses for the money, at least. The promotional rate's pretty decent, too.

I'm just glad to have everything working. Good luck to the others in the northern side of the Lansing area who lost WILX with the transition! From the looks of things, this weak signal is the way it is from now on.