St. Louis, MO - HDTV *OLD* [Text View] - Page 10

DroptheRemote

07-04-04, 09:13 AM

kirk,

The answer to your question is -- it depends.

If you have a digital display (plasma, DLP, LCD or LCOS), you are probably better off going with 720p instead of 1080i since digital displays are progressive. This would be particularly true if the native resolution of your digital display is 720p, as many of the RPTV DLPs are.

If you have an analog display, the maximum resolution the CRT can scan is most probably 1080i, so you'd want to set the Charter box to that output.

There are a few CRT RPTVs that can display 720p and most CRT front projectors can handle that scan rate. If you have a CRT display that can handle 720p, I'd recommend that you should go with 720p.

The issue here isn't which is better (720p v 1080i), but rather which is going to be more appropriate for the type of display device you have.

In general, most consumers believe that 1080i is the superior resolution, though personally I prefer progressive images over interlaced. While there is a minor resolution sacrifice in going from 1080i to 720p, the fact is most of the 1080i devices aren't really displaying anywhere near the potential resolution. As a result, the compromise isn't nearly as large as it would appear when looking at the just the pixel numbers (1080i x 1920 vs 720p x 1280).

kwatkins

07-04-04, 10:04 AM

4113, Doug,

Thanks for the info. I'd like to be more specific on the display device. It's a Panasonic PT-L500U connected by DVI. The native resolution is 1280x720.

Thanks,
Kirk

DroptheRemote

07-04-04, 10:10 AM

Kirk,

You should definitely be feeding your LCD projector a 720p signal.

kwatkins

07-04-04, 10:44 AM

Hi Doug,

Thanks a lot. I really didn't see much difference when I switched back and forth, but maybe my eyes are not trained properly. Why does my projector identify a 720p signal as 750p?

Kirk

DroptheRemote

07-04-04, 11:18 AM

kirk,

Your projector includes a built-in scaler that converts non-native (non-720p) signals into 720p; so, when you feed the projector 1080i, it is being internally converted to 720p. This is necessary, because that's the only resolution that your LCD is capable of displaying; unlike most CRT projectors or RPTVs, the actual display device (the LCD panels) are not capable of handling multiple scan.

While the scaler in your projector can handle the conversion from 1080i to 720p, you're probably better off going with 720p as the output from Charter, principally because there are channels transmitting in 720p that are probably going to look better without going through a scaling process (ESPN-HD, ABC [not yet on Charter], PBS [not yet on Charter].

Of course, it is possible that the scaler in the projector might do a better job in converting 1080i to 720p than the Charter (Motorola) box does, but if you aren't seeing any major difference between 1080i and 720p via Charter, it's probably not a big enough difference to matter,

Not sure why the 720p is labeled as 750p. Panasonic has sort of a tradition of labeling things in an unconventional way. For instance, on my Panasonic CRT RPTV, 480p is actually shown as 525p, which represents the 480p portion (visible picture area), plus the vertical blanking interval (45 lines).

To be honest, I'm not sure that this explains the 750p notation, and I would actually expect any VBI for 720p to be larger than 30 lines, but maybe not. For instance, the VBI for 1080i is also 45 lines (1125i total).

John Kotches

07-04-04, 11:32 AM

Is the charter box user switchable between 720p and 1080i, or does a technician have to set the resolution? I'd hope that it's user selectable. Otherwise, it's a terrible design decision.

Selectable is important because you want whatever device is better at the job handling the 1080i --> 720p transcode. I know to my eyes the PLV-Z2 does a better job at this than the Dish 811, so I change the output of the 811 to match the HD broadcast rate. 1080i --> 720p out of the 811 is painful to watch, and watchable when the Z2 does the work.

Regards,

Mattman

07-04-04, 04:20 PM

The output resolution of the Charter box is user selectable. I believe that you have to power down the unit first, then press and hold the menu button on the front of the box. The box wakes up and displays an on screen menu that lets you select the output resolution.

duihlein

07-04-04, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by 4113
This would be a good time to repost this info:

The DM 6400 that Charter in St. Louis can generate the following configurations:

- 3 HDTV program streams in a 6 Mhz MUX
- 14-16 SDTV program streams in a 6 Mhz MUX
- 7 SDTV program streams and two HDTV program stream in a 6 Mhz MUX

This is a great point of debate when compared to the satellite industry and vestigial-sideband modulation demonstrated below:

- 5-6 SDTV program streams in a 6 Mhz MUX
- 1 HD program streams in a 6 Mhz MUX

I understand the hardware specs allow you to run this configuration. I just have my doubts as to if it can perform up to specs in certain real world scenarios. I have seen complaints from other cable systems that have reported issues with live sports and/or fast panning movie shots. I also have seen too many circumstances where manufacturers claims do not live up to real world performance. I guess we will know for sure when Charter adds channels.

I really hope there are no issues as once they come out with their DVR I plan to drop Dish, sell my 2 DishPlayer 7200's and switch to Charter.

Dave

Scroft391

07-04-04, 09:46 PM

This is slightly off topic but I figured this forum could help me. I have a family member that is building a house who wants to have a home theater built. I was wondering if anyone could suggest a St. Louis area company that could help. Money is no object provided the service is top quality. I am talking a complete home theater system designed and constructed from the blue print stage. Feel free to respond her or send me a PM.

John Kotches

07-04-04, 10:52 PM

Scroft:

Look up Dennis Erskine in this forum if you want one of the best on the planet.

Cheers,

redwine

07-05-04, 12:54 AM

I know this if off topic but so many of you have Charter pipeline. Did you notice a reduction in spam? My email looks great now. I used to get about forty spam emails per day and now I just get the spam I want. Did Charter change something without telling me? I used to work for ATT Worldnet (a contractor job along with five Indian guys (not American Indian) during the dark ages after the dot.com crash) and part of my job was to read other peoples emails to determine and delete what I considered spam before forwarding it on to the customer. The Indians also did this but from their vegetarian and non US perspective. This was subjective at best. ATT sucked as a company to work for and I moved on. I wonder what Charter is using for spam filters?

Mattman

07-05-04, 01:37 AM

Scroft391

You have a PM

Andrew Sabin

07-05-04, 12:13 PM

Kirk,

I have the Panasonic PT-500 Projector and also feed the unit 720p from the Charter HD receiver. My projector also displays 750p as the resolution when feeding it 720p. However, when I switch to EDID2 for the DVI mode it does indicate 720p wide. I don't see any difference in picture quality from EDID1 vs. EDID2.

By the way, have you compared the black level and contrast on component vs. DVI?

Thanks

jedi35

07-05-04, 01:07 PM

Doug,

What signal resolution do you think I should be feeding my svga dlp pj? I realize that it can't do 720p or 1080i, but I've heard that these pjs might look better scaling hd down from 1080i to 480p, instead of setting the source device to 480p. For dvds, 480p has got to be better than 480i I'm sure. If I feed it 480i from my dvd player, does the pj change it to 480p with its internal scaler, or should I be looking to send it 480p and bypass any pj scaling?

RaceTripper

07-05-04, 02:05 PM

Looks like Reds @ Cards on ESPN HD is blacked out. That really sucks big time. I was looking forward to that.

So are we going to get nothing for ESPN HD cards this season?

rcman2

07-05-04, 02:28 PM

4113

07-05-04, 03:19 PM

QUOTE]Originally posted by John Kotches
Is the charter box user switchable between 720p and 1080i, or does a technician have to set the resolution? [/QUOTE]

To access the "User Settings" ensure that your DCT-51XX/62XX is
powered on, then press <POWER>, then <MENU> within two seconds.

The first three setting are related to the aspect ratio and resolution. The rest are closed caption settings. I will cover the first three settings:

TV Type
DVI/YPbpR Output
4:3 Override

TV Type
Selects the aspect ratio for then TV. This setting defaults to 16:9.
Settings are:

16:9 for widescreen 16:9 TVs

4:3 LETTERBOX: Forces HDTV channels to display in letterbox mode, preferably to view 16:9 in its intended format on a 4:3 TV.

4:3 PAN/SCAN crops the original 16:9 program to display in full screen on a 4:3 TV.

DVI/YPbPr Output
This sets the output resolution for the HDTV channels only.
Defaults to 1080i. Options are 1080i, 720p, 480p, or 480i.
Note: If you set this to a resolution that your TV does not support, you will lose the picture. At this point, you will have to reference the front panel LED to change the settings.

4:3 Override
(The most misunderstood of all the settings)
This sets the output resolution for 4:3 analog and digital channels (Ch. 2 through Ch. 730, PPV and VOD) Defaults to 480i. Options are OFF, 480i or 480p.

SPECIAL NOTES:
If this setting is set to OFF, the user will lose the ASPECT functions on the TV remote control. This must be set to 480i or 480p.

Also, if your TV's minimum input resolution is 480p (Samsung DLP's for example), you will not see analog and digital pictures on the initial install.
The 4:3 Override must be changed to 480p. This is a common mistake by Technicians and Customers which leads to confusion that causes unnecessary service calls or customers returning their HDTV's.

EXTRA SPECIAL NOTE:
Every time the DCT-51XX/62XX is unplugged or if there is a power outage, it typically begins a series of phone calls to Charter and unnecessary service calls that is reminiscent of a Keystone Cops movie. It usually goes something like this...

A customer unplugs their DCT for any given reason such as rearranging furniture, moving the TV or even by accident OR the customer experiences a power outage.

The next time they go to watch their HDTV, they notice that they are missing analog and digital channels on their TV with 480p/720p/1080i inputs. This is because the box reverted to the default 4:3 OVERRIDE settings of 480i.

Now, the customer calls Charter complaining that their "cable is out" or if they are more observant, they notice that they are only receiving the HD channels. This begins the ridiculous series of events that could easily be avoided by a properly trained CSR and/or technician.

Next, the CSR sends a "warm hit" the box to refresh it. The CSR advises the customer that it should be fixed in a matter of moments and if there are any more problems, call back. Of course, this does not fix the problem because the box reverted to the default setting again. So the customer calls back and gets a different CSR, who also sends a "warm hit" to refresh the box... the box reverts to default and once again, no resolution. Now, the customer calls a third time complaining that this is their third call, the CSR now gets approval from a supervisor to send a "cold hit" which wipes out the box completely and the box then re-downloads the entire monolith software package for the DCT. Resolved? NO. The box was reverted to default once again... 4:3 Override is set to 480i but the TV's minimum input is 480p.

So the customer calls once again... totally pissed. The matter is escalated to Manager who could not tell you the first thing about the box or its settings, it's probably after hours, so they dispatch the on call tech who is enjoying an evening with his/her family but now has to go to the office, get a replacement box, then drive to the customers home and replace the "bad box". The tech, installs the new box and 90% of the time, doesn't know how to change the settings on the box, or if he/she does know, they really don't understand all those numbers (4:3, 16:9, 480i, 480p, 720p & 1080i).

Problem not resolved... They call other techs who cannot help because nobody ever thinks to look at the inputs on the back of the TV to see that the minimum input resolution is 480p!!!

Sometimes two or three service calls are made and along the way, the customer is calling their favorite store arranging the return of the TV or setting up a warranty service call on the TV itself.

Eventually, Charter and the Customer hits the jackpot and gets a Tech or CSR who actually knows what their doing and in matter of pressing 8 buttons (POWER-MENU-DOWN-DOWN-RIGHT-POWER-POWER), accesses the User Settings, changes the 4:3 Override to 480p, and powers o the unit.

PROBLEM RESOLVED!!! Until the next power outage or customer removal of the AC cord...then, see above.

Imagine the hundreds or even thousands of unnecessary phone calls and service calls created after each thunderstorm or power outage, let alone the customer who powers down the units themselves...

DISCLAIMER
Although I am a stockholder in Charter Communications, I am not an employee. The post above was not intended to offend or insult any Charter CSR, Charter Technician or Charter Customer including but not limited to BUDSHARK. The above post is factual and is based on actual events that happen on a daily basis.

dweebe

07-05-04, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by dwette
Looks like Reds @ Cards on ESPN HD is blacked out. That really sucks big time. I was looking forward to that.

So are we going to get nothing for ESPN HD cards this season?

I think so. I thought whenever Fox Sports MW or KPLR shows Cards games, ESPN looses. And since almost every Cards game is shown by FSMW or KPLR that means no HD Cardinals in the St. Louis area.

The only exception might be Sunday night national ESPN games.

abcward

07-05-04, 05:05 PM

It sure would be nice if FSMW would join the HD world - then we could see Cards/Blues games in HD frequently...

redwine

07-05-04, 06:02 PM

4113 - sounds like the CSRs need some training. Just the expense of the events you describe is pitiful. Charter management has a handle on this issue and is resolving it right? I own some stock and would like to see this wasted expense stopped.

BudShark

07-06-04, 12:27 AM

The industry made component inputs default to accept 480i to prevent the situation 4113 describes. I know Sony's, Mits, Hitachi's, Panny's will all accept 480i on their component input. The situation described above won't happen - theres been a big effort in the industry to avoid this. I'm not talking about the 1 or 2 high end units that won't accept 480i on principle, I'm talking about anything you'd buy in a brick and mortar store that Charter's average customer shops at.

Chris

4113

07-06-04, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by BudShark
The industry made component inputs default to accept 480i to prevent the situation 4113 describes. I know Sony's, Mits, Hitachi's, Panny's will all accept 480i on their component input. The situation described above won't happen - theres been a big effort in the industry to avoid this. I'm not talking about the 1 or 2 high end units that won't accept 480i on principle, I'm talking about anything you'd buy in a brick and mortar store that Charter's average customer shops at.

Chris

Sorry BUD, it happens everyday...
Most often with the very popular Samsung DLP units.
There are others...would you like a list?

John Kotches

07-06-04, 08:14 AM

abcward,

For the Cards, it would make sense to wait for the new ball park. No point in wasting the $$$ and time to put it up in Busch stadium.

Cheers,

DroptheRemote

07-06-04, 09:41 AM

jedi,

I'd give a slight preference to sending 1080i straight to the projector, as the projector is actually going to scale 1080i to 800px600, not 480p. Sending 480p would essentially mean that you're doing two conversions: one from 1080i to 480p through the source scaling, and then from 480p to 800x600 in the projector.

As a general rule, I think it's best to keep the number of conversion, or scaling, processes to a minimum.

Although it's counter to my "convert once" guideline, there could be a slight advantage to doing the deinterlacing in the DVD player, as it would be done digitally, which should translate to greater accuracy. However, there could be other factors that give the projector's deinterlacing and scaling an overall advantage, so the best thing is to compare and decide for yourself which looks best.

Trust your eyes.

jedi35

07-06-04, 12:14 PM

Thanks Doug. For some reason I was thinking that 800x600 is essentially 480p. But the numbers 800 and 600 are both higher than 480(duh!), so that resoultion comes out to be higher than 480 lines. I don't think I've tried sending 480i from the dvd player to allow the pj to do the scaling, but in watching 5th Element (Superbit)last night, it's hard for me to imagine that the picture would be any better the other way. This picture is way better than what I see in theaters, and I haven't seen dvi at home yet. Oh well, one day.

I also have yet to use my Iscan line doubler, which has gotten rave reviews with this pj. I'll feed it s-video(it takes 2 s-videos and one composite) and it with output 480p through a vga connection, perfect for the 6100.

DroptheRemote

07-06-04, 12:36 PM

jedi,

I've just written my first hardware review for another online site. It's on DVDO's newest piece of gear, the iScan HD.

When the site actually posts the review, I'll post a link.

rcman2

07-06-04, 06:25 PM

back on the ESPN-HD schedule. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

DroptheRemote

07-06-04, 06:30 PM

I'm pretty certain that this week's Sunday Night Baseball will be in HD. At this point on the sports calendar, there's really not much scope for conflict with a more high-profile event.

On that basis, SNB probably will be in HD every week up until the time the NFL season starts.

John Kotches

07-06-04, 07:17 PM

Doug,

All star game coverage, including Home Run Derby next Monday night would be competing for the same HD resources.

By the way, are you attending CEDIA? Let me know, when you can via e-mail :)

Cheers,

DroptheRemote

07-06-04, 07:28 PM

John,

Doh! -- good point.

That might be a conflict, but if I recall correctly, the Sunday Night game last year before the All-Star game was in HD. Not sure what the logistics were at the time for those games last year.

At this point, I'm definitely planning on going to CEDIA. Are you thinking of organizing a Road Trip?

John Kotches

07-06-04, 10:01 PM

Doug,

I have to leave on Wednesday to go to CEDIA. I think Stacey Spears is coming out on Labor Day and hanging out here to take a listen to my new setup and tweak out the Z2.

I have to go to CEDIA to keep up with what's going on, and to meet with some manufacturers from overseas.

I was thinking of getting together for dinner in Indy if it's possible.

Cheers,

RaceTripper

07-07-04, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
I'm pretty certain that this week's Sunday Night Baseball will be in HD...

Oh well, bad timing for me. In our house that'll get pre-empted by the British GP.

Dean

DroptheRemote

07-07-04, 08:17 AM

I'm passing this along for DISH subscribers, past and present.

This comes from today's SkyREPORT E-News.

___________________________________________

EchoStar Aims to Settle DISHPlayer Litigation

Past and present DISH Network subscribers who had the DISHPlayer satellite TV receiver/PVR could be eligible for pay-per-view coupons or other benefits under a proposed settlement concerning the product and its alleged defects.

California Superior Court in Oakland has been working on a class action case involving defendants EchoStar and WebTV Networks over DISHPlayer, the much talked-about set-top box that put EchoStar into the PVR business in the late 1990s. Attorneys on both sides have produced a proposed settlement to wrap up the litigation, which was first filed with the court in May 2002.

Under the proposed settlement, current EchoStar subscribers who are class members but do not subscribe to interactive "PTV" services and participate in the settlement will receive non-transferable certificates valued at $19.95 plus tax, redeemable towards the purchase of DISH Network pay-per-view movies. Current subscribers who are class members using PTV services will receive between eight and 11 non-transferable certificates valued at $3.99 plus tax for pay-per-view movies, plus a non-transferable $25 credit toward subsequent PTV subscription fees. Those customers also can get $20 to $50 worth of certificates for the purchase of satellite TV equipment from EchoStar, plus a $20 credit toward subsequent PTV service subscription fees, the court document detailing the proposed settlement said.

Former subscribers who are class members and choose to participate in the settlement will receive $30 to $50 in non-transferable certificates for the purchase of satellite TV equipment from EchoStar, or checks ranging from $5 to $20, the document said.

EchoStar would not comment on the litigation or the proposed settlement.

The defendants have maintained in the case that the DISHPlayer system is not defective. Nonetheless, the settlement is intended to settle and release all alleged claims against the defendants, the proposed settlement stated.

The California court overseeing the matter will hold a hearing Aug. 31 to determine if the settlement should be approved.
___________________________________________

DroptheRemote

07-07-04, 08:21 AM

John,

Sure, I'd definitely be interested in getting together for dinner. Last year I arrived late Friday evening, but I'm thinking that I'd like to attend both Friday and Saturday this year.

As a first-time attendee last year, I had no game plan and just spent Saturday and early Sunday aimlessly wandering around. I still saw some really interesting stuff (the new Sony SXRD projector and Joe Kane's Samsung DLP projector the highlights for me), but I plan to approach the show more systematically this time around and to have more time on the floor.

DroptheRemote

07-07-04, 01:09 PM

If anyone's interested, here's one man's opinion (actually, mine) on the new DVDO iScan HD video scaler:

http://homecentric.com/reviews/censura.php?tsid=1&csid=3669689d3695a19842b47a45a93bd55b&cmd=details&itemid=10

I don't want to hijack the thread, so if anyone has any comments or questions, please send them via private message or eMail...

turls

07-07-04, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by redwine
I believe I heard somewhere that the digital HD OTA broadcasts sometimes suffer because of lack of power output. The comments were pointing out that local stations don't care or can't afford to upgrade currently for the low number of HD/digital viewers. Is this an issue in St. Louis? I have Charter and don't know about power levels.

If the stations up the power I assume we could all receive HD with simple indoor set top antennas.

KMOV-DT ran full power for Super Bowl 35 (Jan. 2001) and didn't turn it back up full time until they were forced to--I believe that was in Dec. 2002.

I don't remember the specifics (it was a top 20 or top 30 market FCC thing), but I don't think you're going to see power output much higher any time soon on the big 4 than you do now.

"all?" I'm 60-70 miles away from some of the towers. With a decent STB and a tower, I'm fine most of the time. But I'll never get it with an indoor antenna.

At least for me, fringe area analog is about unwatchable. Fringe area digital is perfect most of the time.

Robert Simandl

07-07-04, 08:18 PM

Hey, any local HD Tivo owners experiencing pixellation/macroblocking from Hell on 46-1 right now? Enterprise is damn near unwatchable on it.

Quick note to Jedi, not to worry. The HTL-HD/ReplayTV combo in the other room seems to be having no problems at all with the same signal.

Toeside

07-07-04, 09:14 PM

Is anyone having trouble RIGHT NOW with OTA signals? I'm getting 11-1 and 30-1 but nothing else. HD TiVo is recording 11-1 right now, so I can't test signal strength until Smallville is over. :(

I'm wondering if the recent storms have effected my diplexer, that I unfortunately have outside right now. It wouldn't be the first time, but the last one I replaced was completely toast.

Robert Simandl

07-07-04, 09:31 PM

Hey Craig,

No problem here with the HD Tivo and any locals except the aforementioned macroblocking from Hell on 46-1, which is still going full blast. All other locals are fine and dandy.

tcfila

07-07-04, 10:34 PM

Any charter people having trouble with HDNet? Mine says it will be back shortly. Every other HD channel is fine. CSR wants to send someone out...after I check my connections.

jedi35

07-07-04, 10:47 PM

Thanks for the note Bob. You knew exactly what I was thinking when I read your post.

tcfila,
My HDNet on Charter is fine, I just checked it. In fact, all the hd channels are coming ok.

Toeside,
Are the Smallville episodes reruns from season 3 or are they new ones?

BudShark

07-07-04, 11:12 PM

HDNet is down for us as well.. since 6pm

Toeside

07-08-04, 08:54 AM

jedi,

Smallville episodes are reruns, but I missed a lot of last season. In fact, with this being our first experience with HD, I pretty much record everything right now and pick and choose which reruns I want to watch again. :)

BTW, my signal strength was bouncing all over on 2, 4, 5 & 9. Not sure why. I was too tired to care, really, and we are moving in 12 days, so I'll probably not attempt to adjust the antenna or cabling.

DroptheRemote

07-08-04, 09:08 AM

FWIW, my reception of KDNL-DT (31-1) has been very poor the last couple of nights. It's usually rock solid, but of late I've been getting dropouts and pixellation.

OTOH, KSDK-DT (35-1), which can be difficult for me to lock onto sometimes, has been rock solid.

BTW (completing the surprisingly elusive Internet acronym hat trick), did anyone catch Norah Jones on Leno last night? Just the girl, her piano and the voice -- it was spectacular. For me, this is what HD should be about -- too bad NBC is foot-dragging on DD 5.1 sound.

Toeside

07-08-04, 11:31 AM

If KSDK-DT 35 didn't lock in by 10:35, then I missed Norah Jones. I'll check, as I have a season pass for Leno on the HD TiVo.

Craig

turls

07-08-04, 11:58 AM

Me too on the HD Tivo Leno SP, but my TV is in the shop, and I only have it setup to keep two shows of Leno. My wife will want to see that. The "professional mover" they promised showed up to take it in the shop--the same guy that answers the phone, and I even helped him put it in the van :rolleyes:

I could hook up the old standard analog and play with my Tivo, but I'm too lazy since I'm supposed to have the set back tomorrow morning. I'll consider myself lucky if the thing gets back to me unscratched and actually in better shape than it was when it left my house.

What kind of luck are people having closer to St. Louis than I getting "in home" service on newer technlogy sets like my Sammy DLP? Did you know that "in home" only means they will pick it up and bring it back--there is no obligation to actually fix "in home" no matter how simple the repair? This is the truth. I'm not joking.

I've learned more than I wanted to know about TV service since I got into HD . . . and you are seriously setting yourself up for some heartache if you don't get an extended warranty on these sets if you are in a service black hole like I am.

jedi35

07-08-04, 12:59 PM

Bummer. Soon after I posted last night that all my Charter HD channels were coming in ok, HDNet Movies went out, and hasn't come back.

Doug,
I think I'm going to stick with watching dvds with a progressive component signal coming straight out of the player into the pj. I tried the iScan(s-video in, rgb out) and thought that textures looked slightly better, but the picture is slightly smaller and the focus is quite a bit softer. And there is a strange "ribbed effect" in the iScan picture where I see vertical lines all over the pic. Any idea why? This is not present with component. I tested 2 of my dvd players, and got the same results. Actually, the Sammy 931 looked a bit better than my Pioneer, and had much better bass(the Pioneer however handles SACD and DVD-audio also). Do you have any idea why the resolution of my iScan shows up on the pj as 640X480 and component shows as 720X480? Maybe that's why component looks better, because it has more information in the signal.

I decided that I wanted to watch HD and dvds on a 16x9 screen, and would like to choose whether or not I wanted to watch SD sources with sidebars within the widescreen image, or blown up huge to fill my 100" 4:3 screen. I figured out a way to do this, and it is a bit of a pain to switch back and forth, but it works for now. The answer lies in proper masking of the screen. I went to Home Depot and got a huge sheet of foamboard normally used for insulation purposes, and also got several black poster boards from OfficeMax to create a huge black mask. My screen lifts out of a case that lies on the floor, so I adjusted it so that the top of the screen rests right at the top of the widescreen image, and the black foam piece stands on the floor and masks the bottom area up to the bottom of the image. I also tacked black poster board to the side walls and the wall above and behind the screen to hide any light spills, and to generally darken my bright walls for better image contrast. Actually, the whole project started because I wanted to darken my walls to get better blacks, and grew into this. The end results are amazing!! Now when I look at HD or dvds, I only see the widescreen area, and the effect is very different from seeing letterbox on a 4:3. It looks and feels much more like being in a movie theater, blacks are better, and even colors look richer. If any of you have a 4:3 screen for your pj, I suggest trying this. When I want to go back to the huge 100" image, I lift the screen higher out of its casing, and remove the bottom masking. It's very light. I did have to make some adjustments in the pj tilt, but for widescreen, the pj shoots straighter at the screen, giving me almost no keystoning. The lengths we go to for good HD. Sorry for the long post.

abcward

07-08-04, 03:01 PM

does anyone have any experience with the Samsung DVD player [model DVDHD841] that upconverts everything to 1080i? I was interested in buying one, but only if it came recommended - anyone? Bueller?

BradZ

07-08-04, 03:36 PM

abcward,

There's a lot of talk in the DVD player forum about upconverting players. The feeling on the Sammy 841 is that you'd probably be better off waiting a month or so when the 941 is released. The 941 is an upconverting model, but it uses the faroujda (sp?) de-interlacer which is the best chip out there, the 841 uses a lesser de-interlacer.

Other upconverters to consider are the Zenith 318 which gets pretty good reviews and the upcoming Panasonic (forget the model #). I'm waiting to see the Panny myself, it's rumored to have the faroujda. It's going to take a special player to unseat my budget champ Panny RP-62.

Robert Simandl

07-08-04, 03:44 PM

Season pass for me too on Leno, so I can catch the monologue while I'm getting ready for work in the morning. Cool, I'll have to play back the whole thing now!

Mr_Bester

07-08-04, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by BradZ
abcward,

...

It's going to take a special player to unseat my budget champ Panny RP-62.

That's what I've got too. I had some problems with stutters or freezes while watchin DVD's, but I just upgraded the firmware from a thread in the dvd forum. Have you done this yet? If not, I do have the CD with firmware on it, so you don't have to donate anything to get the firmware.

Dug

DroptheRemote

07-08-04, 03:57 PM

abc,

The early Samsung DVD players with built-in scaling received poor reviews. The newer players may be better, but I haven't really seen enough feedback to know one way or the other.

However, I'm not an advocate of scaling DVDs to 1080i -- in fact, I'm outright negative.

Why?

First, it's important to bear in mind that you can't create resolution out of thin air. You're not creating a more detailed picture by scaling to 1080i; rather, you're reconfiguring the way the picture is sent to the display device. The picture is now in the 1080i format, but it's not as detailed as if the film had been converted to a 1080-line format to begin with.

Where scaling has traditionally been used is with projectors that are creating large images and where the process of magnifying the picture onto a screen of 80 inches or more resulted in the line structure of the picture becoming visible (and distracting) to the viewer. By scaling the image, the scan line size is reduced, making the picture structure less apparent.

Net effect: scan line size reduced, but same level of picture detail.

If a viewer can see the line structure of images from a progressive DVD player on a CRT RPTV, that person is sitting far too close to the screen to begin with. Seated at a proper viewing distance, line structure shouldn't be an issue.

But let's assume for a moment that you are sitting very close to the screen and that you don't want to move back. If that's the case, scaling to 1080i would likely eliminate the problem of visible scan lines. But the downside is that now you're looking at an interlaced image, which brings with it all sorts of picture artifacts that aren't present when you're using a good-quality 480p DVD player.

Granted, the scan lines in a 1080i image would be smaller and therefore the artifacts would be harder to detect. But make no mistake, the artifacts are there and they would be noticed from time to time -- especially when you're seated so close to the screen.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this point, but I believe it's never a good idea to convert from progressive video to interlaced, regardless the payoff in the reduction of scan line visibility. Even in a bona fide home theater with a good-quality CRT projector and large screen, it would be far preferable to scale to 720p or even 1080p.

If your RPTV was capable of displaying 720p and the DVD player was capable of outputting that resolution, I'd say, "go for it." Of course, you still wouldn't be increasing the level of picture detail, but if visible scan lines were an issue, moving from 480p to 720p would probably elminate them.

Bottom line: DVD players that can output a 1080i image are another example of how marketing-driven home theater is. Bigger numbers do not always mean better performance.

Don't believe the hype.

RaceTripper

07-08-04, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
...However, I'm not an advocate of scaling DVDs to 1080i -- in fact, I'm outright negative...

I've never really seen much point to the upconverting DVD players. I think it's a big marketing hype. Take a cheapy DVD player, add DVI and upscaling as cheaply as possible, and double or triple the price. Well, that's my take anyway. DVD is still 480. You can't add resolution that isn't there to begin with, so at best it's the same, but more likely you introduce errors.

I better improvement to a player is to improve the mpeg decoder or deinterlacer. I recently upgraded my player to add the Silicon Image SiI504 deinterlacer (it already has the very good Zoran Vaddis V decoder). I use a high quality component cable to output 480p to my Sammy DLP and DVDs look awesome. HD content coming over Sat looks only marginally better.

Arcam just released a HDMI DVD player, but it still outputs standard DVD progressive resolution. Now I'd be interested in seeing how that performs with a HDMI connection.

DroptheRemote

07-08-04, 04:22 PM

jedi,

I'm not sure why you're seeing the vertical artifacts from your iScan. I've given this some thought, but don't have any ideas to offer.

Also not sure about the 480x640 vs 480x720 question. It's true that the component video feed has a great deal more bandwidth than S-Video or composite, so maybe that explains why you'd be seeing a higher resolution with the component connection.

I'm surprised that you're perceiving an improved black level from your projector after making the area surrounding your screen darker. In fact, the conventional approach for improving apparent black level with digital devices is to LIGHTEN the area around the screen so that the less-than-black blacks actually look more black in comparison with the surrounding area.

For example, let say I took a 3" x 3" 20% white card (near black) and centered it on top of a 6" x 6" 0% card (absolute black). Next to it, I take another 3" x 3" 20% white card (near black) and place it on top of a 6" x 6" 100% white card. Even though both of the smaller cards are the same, your eye would perceive the small card on the 20/100 combination to be darker than the one on the 20/0 combination.

For some reason, you're seeing the opposite, so I wonder if some other factor in your viewing area has changed that might explain what you're seeing.

abcward

07-08-04, 04:38 PM

Has anyone called Charter this week asking about PVR availability? Just curious...

BradZ

07-08-04, 05:12 PM

Mr. Bester,

I haven't updated my firmware, but I haven't had any problems with my player yet (knock on laminate particleboard). I've seen the thread about the firmware update- is there a noticable improvement or (if you weren't having problems) would you skip it? I'm a very big believer in the "if it ain't broke..." philosophy.

BudShark

07-08-04, 05:59 PM

during my weekly call to Charter it was discussed.

Thinking first of August now - but since they haven't had trainings/or anything scheduled the CSR was not optimistic on that date either (he claimed they usually start seeing trainings scheduled 3-4 weeks in advance).

Chris

P.S. Yes, I have installed my special protective suit in advance of being told the CSR was wrong, knows nothing, and I shouldn't have even asked him.

bl7385

07-08-04, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by abcward
Has anyone called Charter this week asking about PVR availability? Just curious...

I called today too to get a lower rate. I was comparing with Dish and said that they will give me a free DVR (not HD, I know). Anyway, FWIW, the CSR said they had just gotten some material on it today and that they plan to offer it this month, as 4113 said (I think).

redwine

07-09-04, 12:03 AM

A co-worker of mine wants to know where he can buy a rear projection big screen TV that is NOT HD ready. I know it is strange but this guy is rejecting newer digital technology because of the recent copyright rulings on MP3 sharing. Can someone buy a new non-HD big screen rear projection TV?

4113

07-09-04, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by bl7385
I called today too to get a lower rate. I was comparing with Dish and said that they will give me a free DVR (not HD, I know). Anyway, FWIW, the CSR said they had just gotten some material on it today and that they plan to offer it this month, as 4113 said (I think).

The boxes have been in the local warehouse for several weeks now.
The training begins next week.

The unit in its current state does not get along with the billing system. Charter is working with vendors to fix the issue before the tentative lunch date. As I have stated here before regarding other launch dates, I will tell the board when it is truly official. Why create havoc if there is an issue that delays the launch?

No, a CSR or Tech will not know this information but I am sure one of you will call and scoff when they tell you anything different. Don't waste your time, half of them think the DCT-6208 is the DVR unit anyway.

As far as training first and then launching 3-4 weeks later, that doesn't mean a thing. Most of the training for HD took place AFTER it's launch.
Charter is not that organized but they should have learned from the mistakes made during the HD launch.

wilkemp

07-09-04, 08:53 AM

As long as we can get the PVR by the start of football season, I'm willing to wait.

I was just down in South Carolina and their HD offering included Hdnet & Movies, HBO, Showtime, and a regional channel that shows all Atlanta Braves home games in HD! Wish the Cardinals were that generous.

Also to note my brother-in-law owns a 32" Samsung Hd, and he too stated he did not see a difference in the picture. He had basic Charter digital with HBO, unfortunately I never had time to take him to BB or CC to show him true HD. Target actually had the 26" Samsung WS and it was showing INHD, but had to be playing thru S-Video, PQ was bad.

DroptheRemote

07-09-04, 09:10 AM

redwine,

I don't know of any manufacturer that's continuing to make analog RPTVs.
I think his best bet would be to do a local search on eBay for older analog sets.

After that he might want to check in with the Ralph Nader presidential campaign to see if they're still hiring. ;)

Robert Simandl

07-09-04, 10:03 AM

The last non-HD RPTV we sold at Costco was over a year ago. Redwine's coworker may have to get an HD-ready set and just not use the component/DVI/VGA inputs. :(

Or else buy used as Doug suggests.

jedi35

07-09-04, 01:20 PM

Doug,

I think I have to consider the fact that my iScan may be defective. It used to show quite a nice, smooth, film-like image. Oh well. I'm happy enough with my progresssive scan dvd players. OTOH, I did get a similar effect when I tried to connect my computer to my crt rptv to watch dvds(vga output from the video card). I can't change the resolution, but maybe I can play with the phase control on the pj. Great review on the iScan HD. Really well written. I'd love to get one someday. My pj has already crossed the 100 hour line. As you can tell, I've been watching a lot. However, I don't get to watch at all for 4 weeks when I'm out of town, coming up. The next step is calibration, but I need funding badly.

Concerning the better black levels, I didn't put all the facts on the table. I got a significantly better component to vga cable from Zaw at Alph Tech. Man, this thing is thicker than garden hose with great sheilding and nice gold plated connectors, and I'm sure that it's adding a lot to the better detailing, colors, texture, and black levels I enjoy now. However, other home theater dealers that I know have told me that contrast and black level are lost when the walls are bright because of the ambient light that is kicked back onto the screen. The same effect happens when someone opens a door in a movie theater. The picture instantly gets washed out, and I'm told that a mild version of this happens when your walls are bright. I have never really been bothered by the fact that black is not really black in a movie theater because the whole room is dark except for the picture area. There is enough contrast to make me think that night scenes are dark enough. Before I accomplished the black masking of my 4:3 screen, I was constantly reminded that black was not really black because the "black" bars above and below the letterboxed image always registered some light(less than my previous lcd pj, but still there). Now that I've taken that out of the picture, so to speak, I've got a big huge dark room, a widescreen image, and killer digital surround sound. Pass the popcorn!! The bottom line, I guess, is the fact that my perception of all this has changed in favor of improved contrast and black level.

abcward,
I'd agree with Doug about not being able to create what isn't there with upscaling dvds players. I do happen to own the Sammy 931, but can't use the upscaling features until I get a dvi-enabled display device. I'm quite happy with the progressive image it's sending out through component cables, even though the reviews have said that it's nothing special to write home about. It might be important to note that players like this may in fact be able to produce a superior image by virtue of the fact that the image is kept in the digital domain with dvi until it reaches your tv or pj. I'm thinking that because of this, upscaling may be of lesser importance. I've yet to get any retailer to actually show me a dvi image from a dvd player, or even to allow me to hook up mine. Any offers?? The Sammy 931 was nailed for "crushing" blacks through dvi. I think this has to do with "pc" versus "video" values on a scale in which black levels are given a number on a range. Samsung got this range wrong with the 931, and blacker than black doesn't register as it should. Perhaps this will be corrected in the newer players. Also, the Sammy has very few picture controls if any for dvi or component, and tends to show a grainier picture due to the sharpness being boosted too high. I may be wrong, but I thought that both the 841 and 941 use the Faroudja chip for de-interlacing, but the 941 includes SACD and DVD-audio decoding. Be aware that the Sammy players will only do an upconverted image through dvi, not component(same with the Bravo D1, D2). For this reason, you might want to take a serious look at the Zenith 318, which upconverts through component as well. There are others with this ability.

dwette,
Did you upgrade the scaler in your dvd player yourself, send it in, or just buy another player? What player is it?

RaceTripper

07-09-04, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
dwette,
Did you upgrade the scaler in your dvd player yourself, send it in, or just buy another player? What player is it?

I have the Arcam DV88+ which by default has the Zoran Vaddis 5 decoder/deinterlacer.

Arcam offers a prog. scan upgrade board for it that adds the Silicon Image SiI504 deinterlacer, which is the same one used in their top-of-line $3K FMJ DV27A. The upgrade is a dealer fit, but it's easy to do and takes 20 min. It's just a new daughter board that fits inside the player.

It leaves the player with two component outputs, one interlaced (via Vaddis 5) and the other progressive (via SiI504). It still uses the Vaddis 5 for decoding. It also gives you simultaneous interlaced and progressive outputs.

It's a nice improvement, but a bit pricey at $600 (for a $1600 player). Fortunately, I didn't have to pay for the upgrade.

The whole affair isn't cheap, but still the best quality PQ I've seen short of the Krell at many times the cost.

Dean

robroy90

07-09-04, 05:04 PM

I had some problems with local reception on my HD Tivo as well, but I am not convinced that is actually reception. I think it could be more related to the dreaded HDMI port failures the HD Tivo appears to be stricken with.

I have had the dreaded "Green Screen of Death" at least once now.

I realize going to component should "clear that up" but I paid for HDMI purity, and that's what I expect! <grin>

Toeside

07-09-04, 05:13 PM

When did you have yoru "Green Screen of Death" Issue? I was watching something on KMOV, don't remember what--CSI Miami maybe... It was recorded from a week or more ago, during a storm. At one point I got a green screen during playback, and I almost flipped, but then I noticed the KMOV-DT overlays were still on the screen. It was nothing more that problems on KMOV's end. Thank God.

I'm curious to know why you think reception issues has anything to do with HDMI? How could they be related?

Craig

robroy90

07-09-04, 05:18 PM

Craig,

I don't think they are related, per se. Other than the fact that other members were saying that they had problems with reception on their HD Tivos and they wanted to know if others had experienced the same.

I have seen some dropouts/pixel problems when tuned to a local HD broadcast via OTA fed from my outdoor (roof mounted) CM antenna. Are they reception issues or Tivo issues? Hard to say.

What I do know is that there is a well-documented issue with the HD Tivos where the HDMI output gradually (or suddenly) fails. In those cases, the same symptoms were visible, including a solid green screen. I pray this isn't the case with mine. I haven't seen one since, so I have my fingers crossed.

Rob

Toeside

07-09-04, 05:31 PM

Rob,

Good luck, hopefully it was a fluke and all is well.

Robert Simandl

07-09-04, 05:43 PM

The HD Tivo definitely has an OTA tuner that's inferior to my HTL-HD and my previous Sony HD100. There's not a cloud in the sky today and channel 46-1 is still pixellating and macroblocking like crazy. So Wednesday night's problems were not from the storms after all.

The same picture, from the same channel, from the same antenna, still looks great on the HTL-HD.

redwine

07-10-04, 12:50 AM

QUOTE]Originally posted by DroptheRemote
redwine,

I don't know of any manufacturer that's continuing to make analog RPTVs.
I think his best bet would be to do a local search on eBay for older analog sets.

After that he might want to check in with the Ralph Nader presidential campaign to see if they're still hiring. ;) [/QUOTE]

I agree. This dude needs a good dose of HD to realize the advantages are worth it. The guy is ready to drop everything digital because of the copyright protection technology being developed into every audio and video digital device. He really hates the RIAA and talks about it all the time. I just want more HD and agree with him that the delays are in part due to RIAA and other copyright concerns with video. I am sick of hearing about it but also agree that greedy businessmen with nearsighted viewpoints are mostly responsible for delaying things.

Scroft391

07-10-04, 11:25 PM

A little bird sent me a PM today. It said "I work for Charter. The MOXI box is tentatively planned for July 26th. However, they are stressing on delaying this box until a update to our billing system is done on August 1st.

You can call up to a CSR and they are able to add you to the DVR waiting list."

Assuming this is not a hoax, I'll be calling up on Monday.

BudShark

07-11-04, 11:23 AM

Scroft - let us know how it goes.

Has anyone determined if Charter is clear QAM or is it encrypted on the HD locals?

DroptheRemote

07-11-04, 11:31 AM

Scroft,

I'm curious if this PM was someone lurking here, or if it came via some other source?

JDKH

07-11-04, 04:08 PM

Anyone know for sure if the Cardinals game tonight is in HD? Titan site says it is but the HDTV listing does not include it.

John

RaceTripper

07-11-04, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by JDKH
Anyone know for sure if the Cardinals game tonight is in HD? Titan site says it is but the HDTV listing does not include it.

John

According to ESPN's site, the game is on thier HD schedule tonite.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index

Robert Simandl

07-11-04, 05:53 PM

The Sunday night ESPN game is the only coverage that game gets, so we don't have to worry about it being blacked out because of Fox Sports or KPLR, either!

abcward

07-11-04, 08:13 PM

Top of the 1st inning in the books... wow this looks amazing.

Why cant every STL teams games be in HD??? :P

Scroft391

07-11-04, 09:19 PM

The PM I got was from a new member. His information shows 0 posts and they registered in July 2004. I am taking the info with a grain of salt. I'll let everyone know in the morning.

duihlein

07-12-04, 08:26 AM

Well if the rumor is true, I may just have to switch to Charter. My Dishplayers are dying a slow (i just lost my 40GB HDD), painful death and my wife grows more and more frustrated with the rain fade issues.

On the DVR side, is Charter going to have both a HD and SD version or will they be the same box. From what I recall, the MOXI has dual tuners, but does anyone know if it will output both Component and RF at the same time?

What kind of deal can I expect when I call to switch. I have 3 Sat boxes, (though I may try to sell the Dishplayers on ebay)

Anyone know where to get a cheap 40GB 5400RPM HDD.

Thanks

Dave

duihlein

07-12-04, 08:26 AM

Doug,
I was going to PM you about this, but I thought there might be others out there in the same boat...

You have been to my house when you calibrated my Hitachi 53UWX10b (great job BTW, the picture still looks fantastic)

To refresh your memory I will explain the layout of my HT area. I have a split level home and have set up my HT in the downstairs family room area. My couch is about 8 feet from the screen, but I can push it back to 10 if needed. I have two large windows to the left with Roman shades that block out a lot of the light, however a good deal of light still filters in from the foyer area. We generally watch movies/TV at night down there, but with the NFL season getting close you can be sure I will be down there every Sunday afternoon (I think I just heard my wife sigh)

With the recent drop in prices of front projectors I have started thinking of upgrading. I am looking primarily at the Sanyo PLV-Z2 and the Panasonic AE500.

Do you think I will be able to run a setup like this in my environment, or is there still too much light? Should I wait for DLP's to drop in price?(I hear they have much better contrast) I have bounced around the idea of a curtain to block the light from the foyer, but I don't think my wife will be very happy with that solution. Are there any standards for the amount of ambient light that is considered acceptable? I have access to a light meter.

I guess the other solution is to buy the setup, and return it if I am not pleased.

Thanks again for a great looking picture and any input you may have.

Dave

abcward

07-12-04, 09:39 AM

has anyone called Charter this a.m. about the Moxi boxes? Just curious....

DroptheRemote

07-12-04, 10:59 AM

Dave,

Thanks for the question and it's good to hear your Hitachi is still looking great. I do remember your room pretty well, but appreciate the refresh.

In the CRT world of projection, complete darkness was the prerequisite. Joel Silver, who does the majority of the ISF training, gave us a simple test for determining whether someone was a candidate for a CRT projector:

"Turn out all the lights in the room. Hold your hand up in front of your face. If you can see your hand, CRT front projection won't work."

The situation is definitely changed with digital projectors. Digital projectors are throwing off light like a lighthouse, while CRT projectors glow more like a fading bonfire. Of course, the downside to digital projectors is once you have all that light output, it can be difficult to control, particularly when the projector needs to produce black or near-black in dark images.

Ambient light is the foe of any front-projection system. If there's light between the projector and the screen, part of the light traveling from the projector to the screen is going to be negatively impacted. The fact that digital projectors have light to spare diminishes the impact, but doesn't completely eliminate it.

I think you could get decent daytime viewing results without any modification of your viewing area. Clearly the projector is going to look best at night, but I think it will be at least passable during the day for watching football or other sports.

There are a couple of things you could consider to improve your environment:

* Rather than install curtains at the foyer level, it might be less intrusive to install them downstairs, say four or five feet from the landing and extending across the entire room. I appreciate that that might be an expensive solution (depending on the material), because your room is pretty wide.

* Consider some of the new screen technologies that are designed with ambient light in mind. There was a recent article in the WSJ about a new Sony "black screen" that is supposed to resist ambient light while accepting the RGB light coming from a projector. I'm not completely sure of the science behind this, but based on some of the quotes from those who have seen it in action, it's worth at least a look (if you can find it).

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB108742977261939595,00.html

(This article requires a WSJ subscription. Let me know if you have trouble getting access and I can summarize via eMail.)

Another possibility for tackling this from the screen perspective is to look into getting a high-gain screen, maybe something like the VuTec SilverStar, which is designed with ambient light in mind.

I've seen this screen in action (Home Theater Heaven in St. Charles) and the results were much better than I expected going in. I'd still like to spend more time with this screen in both lighted and completely dark situations and with different projectors (I saw it with one of the JVC DILA projectors) before giving it a complete thumbs up. But it seemed to deliver on its primary objective.

There's also a number of fairly lengthy discussions about the Silverstar elsewhere on AVS. Here's one to get you started:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262466

One of the main downsides with the Silverstar is that it sells at a premium even over other premium-priced screens. This isn't by any means an exhaustive price comparison, but I've seen a 110-inch Silverstar priced at $2,600 (before tax) compared with $2,000 (bt) for a 110-inch Stewart Firehawk.

Just my opinion, but I'd aim for something like a 92- or 96-inch wide screen.

On the LCD vs DLP choice, I'd probably go with DLP but I haven't really seen enough of the LCD projectors to be adamant about that preference. While none of these digital technologies is totally refined, it seems like I see more LCDs with "stuck" pixels than I do with DLP. DLP definitely has a reputation for better blacks, but I don't think there's a lot to choose between them in terms of overall light output.

I hope that some of this is helpful.

oby

07-12-04, 11:01 AM

I called on Saturday because I wanted to updgrade my service, and I asked about the status of the DVR--and the CSR said they just got a memo on it--that it will be available "soon", and they are creating a "waiting list". She took down my name for the waiting list--and she said someone would "call me" when it is available.

Hope they also add abc-hd and discovery hd.

abcward

07-12-04, 11:08 AM

oby,

do you actually think they will call you? I suggest calling routinely instead.

duihlein

07-12-04, 11:20 AM

Doug,
Thanks for the input. I've seen others comment on the "stuck pixel" issues with LCD (along with the Screendoor effect), while the current crop of cheap(or should I say less expensive) DLP projectors have the "rainbow" effect to deal with.

It sounds like I'll be looking at an investment of over $3000 possibly closer to $4000 with one of the newer high performance screens, so I may just have to be content with the 53" screen for another year while I await price drops on the new technologies.

I think I will initially start with a 96" screen which I would like to construct myself to save some jack. Perhaps I can start with the planning for this as I await a possible price drop for Xmas.

On a side note:
I plan on selling my current HDTV to my folks (my mom has been begging my dad for a big screen)

How much calibration would be needed following a move? Would it be primarily setting the convergece, or does everything get thrown out of whack?

Thanks
Dave

BudShark

07-12-04, 11:31 AM

FYI - last night we called Charter because of problems with HDNet and ESPNHD. After working through the system, we got to a tech for the problem. Durijng the call he said the PVR boxes aren't due to late summer, early fall. He gave the same line about billing problems and further testing.

Commentary: Isn't anyone curious as to why there is no SD PVR? Why would Charter launch the HD PVR, but give no option to the SD customer? And if they did, wouldn't the SD customer want the HD PVR just to have PVR service? Can you imagine Charter telling the customer they can't have PVR because they don't have HD? So the customer says, fine - I'll pay for the HD PVR, and Charter says no, you have to have an HD box to get our HD PVR. Seems strange. I know I've asked, and so far all CSRs have said they don't have anything about an SD only PVR yet. Seems odd.

Chris

DroptheRemote

07-12-04, 11:48 AM

Dave,

I understand your thinking on prices and suspect that you're right. Prices never seem to fall as fast as any of us would like, but they definitely will be lower for a wide array of products by the year-end holiday.

C'mon HD-TiVo...

On calibrating after a move, the convergence is probably the key thing that will need adjustment. By the same token, I think you're coming up on a year since the set was calibrated, so cleaning the lenses and touching up the grayscale and color balance would probably be beneficial, too.

I do "recalibrations" at 60% of the original cost up to 18 months after the original calibration, and this discount can be normally applied to a new owner, with some conditions. However, if you're selling/giving the TV to your parents, that wouldn't be an issue. And if you decided that you only wanted the convergence redone, we could definitely figure something out there.

Here's a link to a good article on how to prepare for moving a RPTV:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/movingthetv.html

duihlein

07-12-04, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by BudShark
Commentary: Isn't anyone curious as to why there is no SD PVR? Why would Charter launch the HD PVR, but give no option to the SD customer? And if they did, wouldn't the SD customer want the HD PVR just to have PVR service? Can you imagine Charter telling the customer they can't have PVR because they don't have HD? So the customer says, fine - I'll pay for the HD PVR, and Charter says no, you have to have an HD box to get our HD PVR. Seems strange. I know I've asked, and so far all CSRs have said they don't have anything about an SD only PVR yet. Seems odd.

Chris

Doh! I have been telling my mother for months not to get a TIVO because Charter was launching their PVR (why pay $13/mo when you can get the service with Charter). In addition her VOD has not been working and she has held off getting that fixed until she got the PVR. Now I will have to eat crow and tell her I was wrong.:rolleyes:

Will Charter allow me to have 2 PVR's?;)
Does anyone have a small HDTV I can borrow to allow my folks to order their own PVR?

2 Questions:

1) Why does it seem that every other major cable player has a PVR for standard subscribers.
2) How come Charter always seems to do things bass ackwards?

Dave

oby

07-12-04, 12:38 PM

I'm a total newbie regarding PVR/DVR (is it one in the same?). I'd rather have more HD channels.

anyway--I have'nt read that the PVR/DVR is only HD. Go to www.charter.com/dvr/

and read about their dvr--it does'nt seem to mention only HD, but maybe I missed something.

BudShark

07-12-04, 12:52 PM

The MOXI box is HD/SD capable. IF they are using the MOXI for SD as well as HD, that means that they will be using the same PVR for everyone. Awful expensive way to do it, but better for the customer.

BudShark

07-12-04, 12:57 PM

On another note - MLB Allstar game in HD?

FOX is producing it in HD, and going to try to distribute it to stations in HD. Since the local station is O&O and transmitting in 720P - we should get the game in HD if Fox can pull it off. They are saying its a dry run for when they go full HD in the fall. If they do this, it speaks volumes for their ability to pull off the football season.

Will be interesting to see - so far no one knows for sure. My guess is that if they didn't feel it would work, they'd be very vocal about killing the speculation. Since they are helping to feed the speculation, it is very likely that with only a few bugs, the All-Star game will be HD.

Chris

duihlein

07-12-04, 02:29 PM

oby,
Yes PVR (Personal Video Recorder) and DVR (Digital Video Recorder) are basically the same. The devices were called PVR's, but with trends moving to digital DVR is now becoming more prevelant.

I was assuming by BudShark's statements that he asked if the DVR's would be available to Non-HD customers and was told no. Now I am not so sure that this is true. When I return to St. Louis I plan to call Charter and find out for certain.

I'll be very disappointed if they push back the DVR rollout to the fall.

Dave

wilkemp

07-12-04, 02:30 PM

CSR, just told me that boxes are due July 20th, did add my name to the waiting list. If these boxes are going to work for SD & HD they might run out on the initial offering.

abcward

07-12-04, 03:00 PM

ok, i called and talked to a CSR as well...

I am on the waiting list too. She was very nice and admitted to being in the dark. She stated that her supervisor told her that these DVR's would NOT be HD, which we all know is wrong.

We'll see what happens.

DroptheRemote

07-12-04, 03:44 PM

Here's a bit more info on the All-Star game HD broadcast.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422079

There's some suggestion that the game may only be available in Houston due to network distribution issues, but I suspect that this is largely worst-case speculation by the "I Hate FOX" crowd.

BudShark

07-12-04, 04:02 PM

OK - again... slightly different story.

According to the CSR I just talked to - the waitlist is NOT a waitlist, its an interest list - meaning they will call when the box is available, but they are NOT reserving boxes for the people on the list. No guarantee as to when they will call either. It may not be until a week or two after the boxes are released.

And... the box does HD and SD. It is the MOXI box. No, he didn't know anything about what they will be doing for SD only customers, but highly doubted they would make this box available to them. He admitted he didn't know, but also stated that he hadn't thought about the SD customer and what to do about them...

GlendaleHDTV

07-12-04, 04:27 PM

Here is the version I got from the CSR:

I called and just asked simply if Charter offered any PVR device (did not even mention hi-def). He said that they currently did not, but would be rolling one out shortly, and offered to send me a link to a site which would show me what they will be offering and how it worked, etc. He had no ETA.

I then inquired whether it was going to be hi-def or not, and he said it would only be offered in hi-def. I then asked if there was any type of list I could get on to make sure I got one of the boxes when they came out, he said there was, and while he was pulling up the form, I got on here and saw BudShark's post. So, I then specifically asked him if being on the list would reserve me a box. He said "yes, if you are on the list we will reserve a box for you. As soon as we get them, we will call you and you will have 24 hours to come pick one up." . After I got off the phone, I checked my email, and the link he sent me was the link to the moxi .jsp file which I'm assuming everyone has seen. If not, it is here: http://www.digeo.com/prodserv/demo.jsp

So at least the CSR's have been given enough info to know that it is a moxi box. Take it all for what it's worth.

Dyaus

07-12-04, 04:30 PM

If all these new Moxi boxes did was provide a new channel guide/user interface I'd pay the 9.99 a month just for that. I loathe the current channel guide. I, however, can't wait to be able to record shows in HD.

Scroft391

07-12-04, 04:36 PM

I just got put on the charter list. My CSR said they will call to set up an appointment to have the box installed. Since it is an HD box, I was told I could not pick up the box myself. A tech will have to install it. He speculated that in the future the box might be available for pick up and self-instillation.

abcward

07-12-04, 04:38 PM

won't the Moxi box REPLACE our current HD Receiver? I thought so, but the csr i talked to confused me...

StLouG

07-12-04, 10:35 PM

The story I got from the Charter CSR was that the box would be HD, the list was for reservations, they would be available sometime around July 20, 2004 and the cost was $10.00. Also a tech had to come out and install it.

Peace and Out.

Robert Simandl

07-12-04, 11:40 PM

Hey, Leno's an upconvert tonight! Was an upconvert a couple of nights ago, too. What's up wit dat?????

DroptheRemote

07-13-04, 12:01 AM

On Leno, this is at least the second time in a week.

Someone needs to update the summer intern training guide...

DroptheRemote

07-13-04, 09:40 AM

I'd like to suggest that everyone viewing this thread today take a moment to send a brief eMail to KSDK about the recent failures to switch over to the HD network feed for the Tonight Show following the local 10 o'clock newscast.

I suggest that you mail your note to JHeskett and cc KCreamer to ensure that both of them see the responses.

Here are the eMail addresses for copying/pasting:

jheskett@ksdk.gannett.com
kcreamer@ksdk.gannett.com

Try to remember to include "no HD," and "Leno" or "Tonight Show" in the subject line so that these messages are prominent when viewing their InBox lists.

This need not be lengthy, but I think it might be helpful in preventing these sort of screw-ups at KSDK in future. More importantly, it will help to demonstrate that they actually have viewers who are watching the HD broadcasts.

When I spoke with the KSDK sales staff about HD advertising spots 6 months ago, they estimated that there were fewer than 1,500 HD-capable homes in the St. Louis area. It's possible that this is just bad information in the advertising sales department at KSDK, but coincidentally it does seem to reflect the priority they give to local HD viewers.

Hohlraum

07-13-04, 11:31 AM

I'll never understand why Charter sends out marketing information and then the CSRs have no clue when you call to ask questions. I called and asked about the PVR service and the guy was about 90% clueless as to what it was and what it would support.

Dual tuners is going to be a very nice feature. I'm guessing that it will record the stream to the drive rather than re-encoding it. I wonder about the HD recording though. Unless they come with pretty huge drives they aren't going to be able to record much HD.

Toeside

07-13-04, 01:26 PM

Doug,

I sent the email, and also added my disappointment in losing the first and last 1-5 minutes in HD of most shows. What's up with that?

I also added that the season finale of Crossing Jordan wasn't switched to the HD feed util the 2nd half of the episode.

Craig

JDKH

07-13-04, 02:20 PM

I also sent emails, Doug, as you suggested. It will be interesting so see what kind of replies that we get.

John

wschwart

07-13-04, 02:21 PM

Doug
I also sent an e-mail expressing my dismay. My guess is that they have new people asleep at the switch.

DroptheRemote

07-13-04, 04:11 PM

Well, that makes at least 3 eMails, which is probably a multiple of the feedback they would otherwise get in any other week about their HD broadcasts.

Even if we don't get a direct response, at least they'll know there are expectations out there and that they're falling short of their competitors.

RaceTripper

07-13-04, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Well, that makes at least 3 eMails, which is probably a multiple of the feedback they would otherwise get in any other week about their HD broadcasts.

Even if we don't get a direct response, at least they'll know there are expectations out there and that they're falling short of their competitors.

If you don't get any response, you might email them again, but additionally copy the FCC. Maybe that'll wake 'em up.

DroptheRemote

07-13-04, 06:38 PM

Just took a look at the HDTV Programming forum to see what's the latest on the All-Star game in HD.

While there's no conclusive, definitive, absolutely official pronouncement, it looks like it's going to SD, not HD.

The issue is fairly technical, so if you want to learn the details, it can be found in the thread below (which is joined in progress):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=413735&perpage=30&pagenumber=11

Mr_Bester

07-13-04, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Just took a look at the HDTV Programming forum to see what's the latest on the All-Star game in HD.

While there's no conclusive, definitive, absolutely official pronouncement, it looks like it's going to SD, not HD.

The issue is fairly technical, so if you want to learn the details, it can be found in the thread below (which is joined in progress):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=413735&perpage=30&pagenumber=11
I've got it on, and it looks to be HD. Unless Fox people know when to switch from upconvert to SD Pillarbox when the show the "DiamondCam". Also, the score deal at the top is centered in the "Pillarbox" area.
It also looks pretty clear, but I am not watching very intently.
Dug

RaceTripper

07-13-04, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Bester
I've got it on, and it looks to be HD. Unless Fox people know when to switch from upconvert to SD Pillarbox when the show the "DiamondCam". Also, the score deal at the top is centered in the "Pillarbox" area.
It also looks pretty clear, but I am not watching very intently.
Dug

I don't think it's HD. Looks to me like 480p.

It's not anywhere near as detailed as the Cards game was on ESPN HD.

Mr_Bester

07-13-04, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by dwette
I don't think it's HD. Looks to me like 480p.

It's not anywhere near as detailed as the Cards game was on ESPN HD.

Sorry,
My mistake. I actually got up and went to my sofa and looked, and I felt like I needed glasses. The center field shots were horrible, but the closeups weren't all that bad.

Dug

StLouisRod

07-13-04, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Bester
Sorry,
My mistake. I actually got up and went to my sofa and looked, and I felt like I needed glasses. The center field shots were horrible, but the closeups weren't all that bad.

Dug

It's very obvious the game is being broadcast in fox "enhanced definition", or basically their widescreen mode. Not high def by a long shot. Oh well, at least maybe the folks in Houston got to enjoy the game in full HD glory.

I guess we'll just have to sit tight for football season to see what Fox HD will offer us :( .

StLouG

07-13-04, 11:45 PM

DroptheRemote

07-14-04, 10:38 AM

Too bad this wasn't included as part of the transition from day one. I think there would have been a lot less foot-dragging by local broadcasters...

From today's SkyREPORT:

Sat TV Scrutinizes New Legislation

The satellite TV industry turned its attention to the U.S. Senate Tuesday with the introduction of the "Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Rural Consumer Access to Digital Television Act" by Nevada Sen. John Ensign.

The bill, Ensign said, would require satellite TV providers to supply customers that cannot receive an over-the-air digital signal from the four major networks with a distant digital network signal by satellite.

Ensign also said his bill includes strong protections against abuse and tough penalties to ensure that satellite TV providers comply "with a fair and equitable process by which all Americans can take part in the digital transition in a realistic timeframe." Local broadcasters that cannot turn on a full-power digital signal due to circumstances beyond their control will not be unfairly penalized under the legislation, the Republican said.

"My goal is to make sure consumers are not denied digital television based on where they live or whether the digital conversion has been completed in their area," Ensign said. "People outside major market areas, like those in rural Nevada, should not be left behind in the digital television revolution."

The bill also would mandate that satellite TV providers phase out the use of two-dishes to deliver local channels, with the first group customers impacted by the two-dish scheme seeing the proposed switch in six months. The mandate takes aim at EchoStar and its use of two dishes to deliver a number of local channels to a select set of markets.

Karen Watson, vice president of government relations at EchoStar, said the company is concerned about the bill's proposed timetable to move locals to one dish, but added, "The legislation is a step in the right direction to help ensure more vibrant competition and services for consumers."

Watson also said, "We are encouraged by Sen. Ensign's desire to help speed the digital transition by enabling satellite TV providers to offer a network HDTV signal to consumers in those markets where a local broadcaster is not meeting its legal requirement to provide a digital signal."

The bill's proposal to phase-in the transition to one dish in markets where two dishes are used "is far better than the unworkable plan proposed in the House legislation," Watson said. "But we remain concerned with the proposed timetable in the Senate bill because six months is not enough time for consumers to receive the equipment necessary to continue receiving local service and not enough time to build a new satellite. We fear the initial deadline will create major consumer inconvenience, confusion and frustration."

Watson said EchoStar is urging Congress to provide a four-year period for conversion to a one-dish solution "to ensure the necessary time to construct and launch a new satellite in order to comply with any single dish mandate."

The Digital Transition Coalition, which is working on issues tied to the switch to digital TV, commended Ensign for his bill. The legislation will ensure that the transition to digital TV will take place more quickly, the organization said.

DroptheRemote

07-14-04, 10:40 AM

Leno was in HD last night, at least when I checked in around 10:50 pm.

No idea if this was due to the eMails sent, but I'm sure they didn't hurt.

Thanks to everyone who sent a note to KSDK.

Robert Simandl

07-14-04, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote

The bill, Ensign said, would require satellite TV providers to supply customers that cannot receive an over-the-air digital signal from the four major networks with a distant digital network signal by satellite.

Too bad it doesn't let the satellite providers give us a HIGH DEFINITION digital signal if we can't get an over the air HIGH DEFINITION local digital signal (cough, cough, UPN in 480i on 46-1, cough, cough)..... :D

But then since UPN isn't an official network yet, I guess such a change would be no help anyway. :(

jedi35

07-14-04, 10:34 PM

Hi Bob,

PM sent!!

wschwart

07-15-04, 12:23 AM

Looks like channel 5 bit the dust while Halle Berry was on Leno. I had to watch on analog - ugh!

Toeside

07-15-04, 12:47 AM

I don't have 2-1, 4-1, 5-1 or 9-1,2,3 again. 11-1 and 30-1 are fine.

I wonder, again, if the diplexer outside is flakey, or if the Silver Sensor in the attic somehow shifted around....(hope there are no critters up there).

Robert Simandl

07-15-04, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by wschwart
Looks like channel 5 bit the dust while Halle Berry was on Leno. I had to watch on analog - ugh!

Oh, that's not good.... my Tivo's recording that while I'm in the other room.... am I gonna wake up to a blank screen instead of Leno in HD in the morning?

DroptheRemote

07-15-04, 08:43 AM

Robert,

Yes, I think you're going to see Halle Berry disappear in midsentence. But it's nice eye candy while it lasts.

I think the problem last night was that KSDK's digital transmitter simply stopped transmitting. Following the outage, I checked for signal strength and it was flat-lined...

CPanther95

07-15-04, 01:45 PM

I'm trying to update a master list of OTA HD stations. St. Louis has not yet been updated. Can somebody that knows what networks are broadcasting in HD or HD/DD5.1 go to the following link and post the info?

National List of Stations Broadcasting HD / DD5.1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422073)

Just need the Network, Re-mapped Channel#, and if they're DD 5.1. For any of the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, UPN & WB) that are currently broadcasting in HD.

Thanks....

GlendaleHDTV

07-15-04, 04:09 PM

It shouldn't be long now. It looks like Charter has started rolling out the Moxi boxes in some other markets. See todays post from Moxiguy:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4062637

John Kotches

07-15-04, 05:04 PM

GlendaleHDTV:

Now if they'd just catch up with the HD offerings, my wife might convince me it's worth switching back from Dish ;)

Cheers,

Scroft391

07-16-04, 02:00 PM

Does anyone know when (or if) the local UPN affiliate will start to broadcast HDTV? I read this story (http://trekweb.com/articles/2004/07/16/40f7d744b89c7.shtml) and it looks like the Enterprise production has switched over to High Definition Digital Video for the 4th season. I would love to actually see the results. So, does anyone know anything abut UPN?

Scroft391

07-16-04, 02:23 PM

I took it upon myself to call UPN in St Louis. After being bounced to three different people, I was finally told "in the near future". I tried to get a more specific answer so I asked if that meant more than a year and I was told not that long, much sooner than that. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed. Hopefully I will get to see Enterprise in HDTV before it gets canceled.

Robert Simandl

07-16-04, 03:26 PM

Hopefully channel 46-1 will boost its transmitter power as well. The pixellation on my HD Tivo makes it unwatchable (though the same signal on my HTL-HD is fine).

MSloss

07-16-04, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Hopefully channel 46-1 will boost its transmitter power as well. The pixellation on my HD Tivo makes it unwatchable (though the same signal on my HTL-HD is fine).

When I first setup my HDTivo a few weeks ago, 46-1 came in pretty solid. I checked this week and got no signal at all. They must have cut back power recently.

Mike

Scroft391

07-16-04, 08:47 PM

Maybe they are doing an upgrade........I hope.

BudShark

07-17-04, 08:41 AM

Antenna rotator wire:

Are there any specific needs? I found some wire on RadioShack's website that implies all that is needed is a 20ga copper wire (two bare, one tinned). The installer run CAT5e up to the attic since it is 18ga copper. Its solid core copper - so I'm thinking it will work. Just curious if anyone has any experience with this.

Thanks,
Chris

comp1040

07-17-04, 09:55 PM

Did anyone see the Friday news story about Charter's Moxi.
I saw the teaser about Charter's Tivo and how it would change our lives.
I never saw the news started watching the Cardinals.
Did they know anything new?

Thanks
Ron

Toeside

07-18-04, 12:21 PM

I know this isn't the right place, but perhaps one of you knows the answer.

I just bought Big (Tom Hanks, 1988) on DVD. The movie is 1.85:1, but it's not displayed correctly on my TV. My Mitsubishi DD-8040 DVD player is set up for 16:9 WIDE, but this movie still has letter box bars and the aspect ratio isn't correct. Setting my TV format to EXPAND fixes it.

Is this an indication that the DVD was encoded incorrectly? All other 1.85:1 DVDs display perfectly without using EXPAND.

Craig

DroptheRemote

07-18-04, 12:36 PM

Toeside,

"Big" is not anamorphic, so that's why you're seeing the problem with the black bars and why it's necessary to hit EXPAND mode to display correctly.

The following is the summary information on Big from Widescreen Review (www.widescreenreview.com).

I'd encourage anyone who watches more than a couple of DVDs per month to seriously consider a WSR subscription. No publication covers the home theater hardware and software scene in anywhere near the depth. And while I believe the reviews of all advertising-supported HT magazines are tainted to some extent (if only in what they choose to review), WSR is head and shoulders above the rest of the pack.

Big

Director: Penny Marshall

Stars: Tom Hanks, Elizabeth Perkins, Robert Loggia, John Heard & Jared Rushton

Studio: 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment

Genre/Catagory: Comedy

MPAA Rating: PG

Aspect Ratio:

Anamorphic Widescreen: No

DVD Soundtrack:

Click For Detail Information

WSR Picture Rating: NR

DD Sound Rating: NR

DTS Sound Rating: NA

Download WSR Review Reference Systems

Critics' Composite Score:

Synopsis: “Big” is the charming comic fantasy of a 12 year-old boy named Josh who becomes trapped in the body of a man, ingeniously played by Tom Hanks (Forrest Gump), whose performance earned him an Academy Award® nomination in 1988. While visiting a carnival Josh makes a wish to be big. To his amazement the next morning he finds he is full grown. His transformation causes problems, his mother thinks he has been kidnapped and one hilarious scene follows another as he makes it in the adult world. He lands a job at a toy company, where, because of his enthusiasm for the products, he is promoted to vice president and soon an ambitious career woman (Elizabeth Perkins) sets her sights on him. Big is hilarious family fun.

Toeside

07-18-04, 12:57 PM

Thanks Doug!

I did a quick Google search of "What is Anamorphic Widescreen" and found
this comparison (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/anamorphic185demo.html).

I think "The Princess Bride" is the same way....

EDIT: There are two DVD versions of The Princess Bride. The Special Edition is Anamorphic. Now I'll be sure to look for Anamorphic versions!

Craig

abcward

07-19-04, 10:30 AM

it's been awfully quiet here lately, so ill attempt to get the ball rolling....

1) Is anyone thinking of calling Charter this week? I'm hoping this is the week for the Moxi boxes.

2) Does anyone have any experience with Superbit dvds? Are they worth the extra money? Honestly I have never seen one or even know much about them. Does anyone have any insight on superbit?

3) Cards/Cubs tonight on ESPN-HD. I am guessing that we'll be blacked out....right? I wish there was some kind of waiver for HD broadcasts, imho it shouldnt be a blanket blackout.

Bruce

DroptheRemote

07-19-04, 11:13 AM

abc,

* No idea on Charter and Moxi. I'm just glad that I have no exposure on this one, as I'd hate to get my hopes up for this, based on the track record for Charter rolling out these things in a timely and competent way. I hope that I'm wrong, because like more HD channels on Charter, Moxi should be good for business.

* SuperBit DVDs are limited to the studios/titles owned by Sony. As far as I'm aware, Sony hasn't licensed this "technology" to any other studio. The basic difference is that the SuperBit DVDs have less video and audio compression applied to them the standard releases. I think the SuperBits are better, but it's a reasonably subtle difference. I routinely use the SuperBit version of "Hollow Man" and sometimes "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" to check the results of my calibration work for the DVD input. I've also seen the SuperBit version of "The Patriot," and it's quite impressive; then again, I've never actually attempted an A/B comparison of it to "The Patriot" standard release.

I think that if a favorite movie is available in SB version, it's probably worth the upgrade. But for a run-of-the-mill DVD that you already own, I think buying the SuperBit version is probably of marginal benefit. Of course, the closer we get to the actual rollout of an HD version of DVD, the less point there is in going for SB versions.

* Yes, the blackout on the ESPN HD game will apply this evening. And, yes, I'm bummed out about that, too.

GlendaleHDTV

07-19-04, 11:16 AM

abcward: Thanks for rescuing this thread from page 3! I was starting to think everyone went on vacation.

I've heard July 20 quoted by a couple of different people for the moxi boxes, so I'll probably call tomorrow. When I called last week, the CSR gave me his email address, so I may try dropping him an email today to see if they've heard anything.

Definitely a black out tonight on the Cards game, but they did annonce that the Cards/Giants game on 8/1 has been moved to the Sunday night ESPN game, so we should see that in HD.

GlendaleHDTV

07-19-04, 11:47 AM

emailed the CSR and he responded very promptly with:

estimated was the 20th but it has been pushed to someday this month no exact date ill email u when I get more info on it.

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: moxi box

Any update on when this will be rolled out in St. Louis? I have a friend who was told "on or around July 20th" by a Charter CSR, and I didn't know if there was any validity to that date.

Thanks for your help.

As 4113 noted in a post earler, July means any day in July up to and including the 31st!!

DroptheRemote

07-19-04, 12:11 PM

Another thought on the blackout of the ESPN-HD game:

Why is it necessary to black out the ESPN-HD broadcast, when there's no blackout of the WGN Superstation broadcast of the same game?

To be honest, I'm not certain that the game is on WGN tonight, but there are many instances where both WGN and FSMW/KPLR have broadcast the same game in the past. I know, because I often take the oppotunity to listen to the WGN broadcast of Cards games, because it's nice to get a different perspective on the Cards, and because I find it increasingly difficult to stomach Dan McLaughlin/Al Hrabosky for 100+ broadcasts in a 6-month period.

Also, I just noticed that the Cards schedule on ESPN shows that the Sunday night game with the Giants is going to be on ESPN and KPLR. Maybe (hopefully) this is a misprint, as I thought that ESPN had exclusive coverage for games on Sunday evenings. Maybe there is some exception to that and KPLR intends to broadcast locally.

Scroft391

07-19-04, 01:32 PM

For what it's worth, i sent an E-mail to the local UPN affiliate about when they will be upgrading to HD-TV. Here is the response I got.

Scott,

Thanks for your inquiry. Due to the minimal demand for HD broadcast in the St. Louis market, and the age of most of our programs, it not likely we will go HD in the near future. Recent discussions with UPN Corporate in New York indicate no plans for the Network to go HD in the near future.

Thanks for watching the U!

WRBU UPN-46
A Roberts Broadcasting Company

It's a shame that their decision is based upon the belief that HD is not in high enough demand in the St. Louis area to justify the upgrade. I have not responded yet because i wanted some statistics first. Does anyone have any facts regarding HD-TV sales and ownership nation wide? I would love to know how many HD boxes were sold in the St.Lois area or how many boxes Charter has gone through since the launch.

DroptheRemote

07-19-04, 02:04 PM

Scroft,

Here's some information, hot off the PR flack's word processor at the Consumer Electronics Association earlier today:
________________________________

May & April 2004 Sales Saw an Increase After Record-Breaking First Quarter

Manufacturer-to-dealer DTV product sales continued to climb in April following an all-time high this past first quarter. With unit sales of 309,098 and dollar revenues of $413 million, April 2004 sales surpassed April 2003 by a 76 percent increase in units and 48 percent in dollars, according to the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA).

May unit sales totaled 296,601 (a 22 percent increase over May 2003) and represented dollar sales of $383,209,959 (an 11 percent increase over May 2003).

In addition, CEA reported sales for the current year-to-date. Through May 2004, unit sales reached 1,581,011 units and dollar revenues equaled $2.24 billion. This represents an 85 percent increase in units and 59 percent increase in dollar sales compared to the year-to-date totals in May 2003.

Cumulative DTV sales (sales since product introduction in 1998) have surpassed the 10 million unit mark totaling 10.5 million units through May 2004. Cumulative dollar sales totaled $17.5 billion.
________________________________

Also, I think the WRBU respondent is stretching the truth to the breaking point. How does his statement square with the fact that UPN 2003 Fall Schedule included two programs -- Jake 2.0 and Enterprise -- which were sent in HD from the network to stations able to pass through the HD broadcast?

I think the real issue is that WRBU is a low-budget operation without the financial wherewithal to make the investments necessary for HD broadcasting. Laying the problem at the feet of the network is spin, spin and more spin. And only an ostrich could completely miss the growing demand for HD programming by consumers.

St. Louis was better off when UPN programming was piggybacked on KPLR with the WB. WRBU is a complete waste of time and bandwidth. I've recently removed it from my program list because its only contribution is to slow me down when I'm channel surfing.

BudShark

07-19-04, 04:08 PM

Ouch Doug :)

Toeside

07-19-04, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote

St. Louis was better off when UPN programming was piggybacked on KPLR with the WB. WRBU is a complete waste of time and bandwidth. I've recently removed it from my program list because its only contribution is to slow me down when I'm channel surfing.

I guess UPN doesn't bother me because I don't find value in the programming. I'm not a Star Trek fan, so I can live without UPN. I've also removed it from my channel list.

However, I agree with everything, that WBRU is way off blaming corporate for their lack of HD.

duihlein

07-19-04, 04:33 PM

One additional note about Superbit titles. They often include DTS. I replaced my copy of Air Force One for this reason. If your a DTS fanatic (there are many of them out there) it is worth ooking into. But as Doug said, you have to really like the movie.

I'll probably be replacaing my Spiderman in the near future.

I didn't realize this was a Sony thing. It will definately make me think twice before buying a Sony DVD (ie Spiderman 2)

DroptheRemote

07-19-04, 04:56 PM

Maybe my rant is a side effect of trying to lay off Charter for a while now. :rolleyes:

But really, I'm just completely fed up with broadcasters who drag their feet and then try to massage the facts. If they don't want to do HD, or if they don't think there's a business case for it, then just say so. I might not like it, but at least I'd respect the straight talk.

Exhibit A: The FOX Network (November 1988 through Fall 2004).

But telling us there's no HD programming, or no local demand for it means either they don't know jack about their own business, or they're being intentionally dishonest because they think we're too stupid to know any better.

Scroft391

07-19-04, 05:14 PM

I decided not to get bogged down with numbers. Fo those interested, here is a copy of my response.

Dear Mr Drainer,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my request. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I do think that it is a missed opportunity to not offer HDTV in the St. Louise area. It is obvious that UPN is heading in the direction of HDTV now that they offer Jake 2.0 and Enterprise in High Definition. It is unfortunate that WRBU has chosen not to offer this service.

You stated that there is minimal demand for HDTV in St. Louis. I would love to know the source of your statistics. Charter Cable services launched a High Definition service in the St. Louis market in the past 6 months and has been so successful with it they are gearing up to offer a High Definition PVR unit to their customers. I find it hard to believe Charter would offer a service if there was not a market for it.

For what it is worth, I think WRBU is loosing viewers by not offering HDTV. I am a member of a HDTV Forum that has a sub-section for viewers in the St. Louis area. Here is a link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4077713#post4077713. Many of the members of the forum will not even tune in to the stations that do not offer at least some HDTV. Others, like my self, first check out the stations that do offer it and may check the other stations if nothing of interest is available.

Please reconsider your stations position about HDTV.

Robert Simandl

07-19-04, 08:05 PM

Hey Doug,

I wouldn't go so far as to say we were better off when UPN was piggybacked on WB11. If WB11 carried Enterprise now, they'd delay it til Saturday night. And since KPLR doesn't have HD recording equipment, Enterprise would still be in plain ol' 480i SD even on 11-1.

I wish DirecTV would carry the Superstations in HD. *That* might convince WRBU to make the plunge....

Mattman

07-19-04, 11:33 PM

Scott

Nicely worded response. From my perspective, the demand for HD in StL is great and increasing daily. When people start seeing Rams games in HD on a regular basis it will only fuel the fire.

jedi35

07-20-04, 03:22 AM

I'd agree with Bob, now that I'm getting dvds of Enterprise recorded off 46-1 from him. The digital channel does provide a superior audio/video experience, having seen other stations' SD versions. However, I'm certainly onboard with nailing UPN for its lazy attitude and misinformation. I wouldn't have any interest in 46-1 if I weren't an Enterprise fan.

marlowsa

07-20-04, 09:16 AM

FYI - I called Charter at 7:55, and no Moxi

tcfila

07-20-04, 11:21 AM

I was told August 9th

dweebe

07-20-04, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by tcfila
I was told August 9th ***sigh***
What was your source? Did you talk to a CSR?
What makes me think that date will get moved back a few more times?

Major bummer that we couldn't see last nights game on ESPN-HD because it was blacked out. Would've been nice to see the Cubbies implode and watch their post season hopes slip away in High Def.

DroptheRemote

07-20-04, 12:55 PM

One thing to bear in mind in future with these ESPN-HD blackouts is that SportsCenter will be carrying extensive HD highlights of these games, as they did last night.

No doubt that's not a real substitute for real-time HD, but it's better than a complete shutout...

JDKH

07-20-04, 04:04 PM

Dish 811 Receiver -

I currently have the Dish 6000 receiver and was considering upgrading to the 811. For those of you that have the 811, is it worth the effort to upgrade? Did you see any difference in PQ? I would like to have access to channel 100 which the 6000 doesn't provide. Just interested in your thoughts.
Thanks

John

dweebe

07-20-04, 04:44 PM

From the 7/20 St. Louis Business Journal

LATEST NEWS
11:50 AM CDT Tuesday
Lovett to head Midwest operations for Charter
Mike Lovett has been named senior vice president of Charter Communications' Midwest division operations, the company said.

Lovett succeeds Lee Clayton, who resigned.

Lovett was most recently corporate senior vice president of operations support. He will maintain current responsibilities for support of field operations, and will be responsible for Charter's Midwest operations, which covers 1.1 million customers in 12 states, including Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Arizona.

Lovett joined Charter in August 2003.

St. Louis-based Charter Communications Inc. (Nasdaq: CHTR) is the nation's third-largest cable television provider, and also provides digital video programming and high-speed Internet access. It is the area's third-largest employer.

© 2004 American City Business Journals Inc.

Hopefully this new guy will clean things up, improve service and HD options in St. Louis.

4113: any insight into Mr. Lovett?

davesalaman

07-20-04, 10:39 PM

Hi All,

I'm new to HD, having just purchased my Samsung tx-p2670wh a couple weeks ago.

After reading the thread, I've decided to wait until the MOXI is availavle before upgrading the cable to HD. So, for now, my playground is strictly OTA.

Everything looks fine so far, with one exception; ABC's 720p HD programming on 30-1 has motion problems. There seems to be a constantly changing rendering speed which causes a jerky appearance. This is so bad as to make it unwatchable. All SD programming is perfectly fine. The signal strength is 5 bars, as strong as any other station (except WRBU), and I've tried three different antennas.

Been watching 1080i programming on other channels fine. I'm wondering if my new set has a defective tuner ?

Anyone seen this before ?

---
Dave

redwine

07-21-04, 12:04 AM

Hmmm.. The guy at Charter went from:

"corporate senior vice president of operations support"

to

"senior vice president of Charter Communications' Midwest division operations"

and

"He will maintain current responsibilities for support of field operations"

Sounds like they are increasing productivity. The poor guy still has to do his old job and his new job. Charter is doomed to a buyout..and it will be a good thing for us..some day...

4113

07-21-04, 01:20 AM

The DVR is officially delayed until August...
I'm sure this will get everyone worked up, but this is why employees should not leak out official release dates.

oby

07-21-04, 07:21 AM

Turning on ABC HD, or Discovery HD, or maybe Starz HD would be a great consolation prize--and help ease the pain for those who are really looking forward to the DVR.

duihlein

07-21-04, 07:49 AM

4113,
Any idea if a modulated signal will be produced on channel 3 from the new DVR? I would like to watch SD programming from any TV in our house.

Dishnetwork just added a PVR fee back on tou our Dish Network bill, so Charter is becomming more and more tempting if they would get the DVR's out (preferebly both SD and HD)

Dave

DroptheRemote

07-21-04, 10:18 AM

On Tuesday there was a posting on HDTV Magazine's "HDTV Tips List" that details "unconfirmed reports" that Hughes is developing a Firewire-capable DVR for DirecTV.

According to the HDTV Tips posting, 250 units have been built and 60 of those are actually in the homes of beta testers, although at least some of those beta testers appear to be Hughes engineers.

The report notes that the Hughes engineering group was recently purchased by Thomson, and the development of the Firewire-compliant DVR was started prior to that acquisition. It's not known whether Thomson will press forward with this project, shelve it or start over. The report notes that the former Hughes team working on this project is up in the air due to possible personnel changes pending as a result of the acquisition of the Hughes group by Thomson.

Reports on the performance of the box were sketchy, though it was noted that there was at least one major issue, caused by the Firewire board coming loose due to the cumulative effect of vibrations caused by the cooling fan.

Based on the track record of the person reporting this, I think it's a very credible report, but note again that neither Hughes/Thomson nor DirecTV have made any comment -- positive or negative -- on future support for Firewire in DirecTV equipment.

Whether this box ever sees the light of day is a big question mark. But whatever happens, it appears there MIGHT be some scope for DirecTV's no-Firewire policy changing somewhere down the road.

FWIW -- I think I've said before here that I don't find a lot of use for the primary service provided by HDTV Magazine (daily HD program listings), but the email-distributed HDTV Tips List is an excellent source of information and a great place for online discussions relating to HDTV specifically and home theater in general.

For anyone who might be interested, annual subscription to the daily HDTV Magazine is $35 and access to the Tips List is optional but there's no additional fee for it.

I'm summarizing this here because I thought it would be of at least passing interest to current or prospective DirecTV customers. Although I'm not formally associated with HDTV Magazine I do feel compelled to put a plug in for the publication after lifting this report from the Tips List.

DroptheRemote

07-21-04, 10:32 AM

The following is from Cable Datacom News:

________________________________________

MSOs Seek More Bandwidth for New Services

Top MSO Engineers Weigh Ways
to Free Up Network Capacity at SCTE Show

JULY 01, 2004

By Alan Breznick, Editor, Cable Datacom News

Fresh off a massive $85 billion rebuild of U.S. cable systems, MSO executives are unexpectedly searching for new ways to free up more bandwidth for their advanced new digital services. To their surprise, and even horror, top cable technical officials -- facing the huge potential bandwidth drains posed by high-definition TV (HDTV), video-on-demand (VOD) and other new services -- found themselves debating various solutions at the Society of Cable Telecommunications Engineers' (SCTE) annual Cable-Tec Expo in Orlando last month.

Despite the huge industry-wide plant upgrades carried out over the past eight years, industry executives said some cable systems are already starting to run out of capacity because of the heavier than expected load from new digital services like HDTV.

________________________________________

Full story is available here:

http://www.cabledatacomnews.com/jul04/jul04-5.html

dweebe

07-21-04, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by 4113
The DVR is officially delayed until August...
I'm sure this will get everyone worked up, but this is why employees should not leak out official release dates.

Not trying to be a nattering nabob of negativity, but I assume we'll hear sometime in late August:
The DVR is delayed until September.

That's it. Even without my landlord's approval I'm going to put up a DirecTV dish and get the Tivo/DirecTV combo box. I can't wait for Charter to keep yanking us around.

DroptheRemote

07-21-04, 11:17 AM

Dave,

Unless you're installing your dish in an area not under your control or in a way that creates a safety hazard, you should have no concern about comeback from your landlord. Strictly speaking, you don't need prior approval.

If they challenge you, simply refer them to FCC ruling which is summarized via a link that is included at the beginning of this thread each month.

dweebe

07-21-04, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Dave,

Unless you're installing your dish in an area not under your control or in a way that creates a safety hazard, you should have no concern about comeback from your landlord. Strictly speaking, you don't need prior approval.

If they challenge you, simply refer them to FCC ruling which is summarized via a link that is included at the beginning of this thread each month.

Unfortunately I don't have a view of the southern sky. I was going to use the Radio Shack dish tripod on the roof and secure it with some cinder blocks so that I don't put any holes in the building.

Thanks. I've seen that FCC ruling before.

davesalaman

07-21-04, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by duihlein
4113,
Any idea if a modulated signal will be produced on channel 3 from the new DVR? I would like to watch SD programming from any TV in our house.

Dishnetwork just added a PVR fee back on tou our Dish Network bill, so Charter is becomming more and more tempting if they would get the DVR's out (preferebly both SD and HD)

Dave

According to the published info ...

Support for a variety of HDTV resolutions, including 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i
Support for standard definition TV (SDTV) down-conversion for output to 2nd TV
16:9 and 4:3 output options with DVI and component video outputs (in addition to RF, composite and S-video connectors)

DroptheRemote

07-21-04, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by davesalaman
According to the published info ...

Support for a variety of HDTV resolutions, including 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i...

Don't know if this is from Charter, Motorola or Moxi, but you have to really respect the attention to detail and the competence of those charged with disseminating it.

Case in point: 480i and 480p are not HDTV resolutions.

Also, it would be helpful to know if the secondary RF feed is concurrent with the HD. It should be, but shouldn't be assumed.

davesalaman

07-21-04, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Don't know if this is from Charter, Motorola or Moxi, but you have to really respect the attention to detail and the competence of those charged with disseminating it.

Case in point: 480i and 480p are not HDTV resolutions.

Also, it would be helpful to know if the secondary RF feed is concurrent with the HD. It should be, but shouldn't be assumed.

It's from Moxi.

I would assume ... but I might be surprised :)

mktgMaven

07-21-04, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Don't know if this is from Charter, Motorola or Moxi, but you have to really respect the attention to detail and the competence of those charged with disseminating it. 480i and 480p are not HDTV resolutions.
That would be me. Personally. Very red-faced. I'm the disseminator. I'll get it fixed. Pronto.

mktgMaven

07-21-04, 03:55 PM

abcward

07-21-04, 04:04 PM

we have more charter people here?

if so, welcome aboard! We can always use any insider info that we can get around here...

duihlein

07-21-04, 07:05 PM

I currently own a Hitachi 53UWX10B - Rear Projection HD Ready TV(component inputs only) that has been ISF Calibrated. I am now thinking of moving to a Front Projection. I haven't decided between a DLP or a LCD.
Primarilly for HD Football and Movies.

I know a few of you have FP's and I am interested in what you have and what you think of it. Included I would like to know your screen type. I am thinking of a DIY screen initially to save on cost.

If possible I might want to see your setup as there are not many options in town.

I'd like to get WXGA (1280x720), but if I do my funds will limit me to LCD.

On a side not - I am probably going to sell the Hitachi. I cannot get a good estimate on value. Do you think $1000 is too much or too little for this set. I will likely sell it to my parents, so I don't want to rip them off, but at the same time I'd like to get fair value. FWIW I bought it in Oct 2001 for $2400.

Thanks for your input!

Dave

jedi35

07-21-04, 10:30 PM

duihlein,

I recently bought a Benq PB6100 dlp pj, and I'm projecting onto a 100" Dalite 1.0 gain screen with a matte finish. This pj, which can be had for under a grand, is only rated at SVGA resolution, but the picture looks way better than the XGA lcd pj I sold last year. It has 1500 lumens of brightness, so it does well when you have ambient light to deal with, and it also has a 2000:1 contrast ratio. PJ companies always blow that figure way up, but I definitely can tell that my blacks are darker than the previous pj. This pj is quite small, has what's considered a long throw lens(works well for getting the pj behind the sitting area in a large room), and has very low fan noise in economy mode(this mode kicks your bulb life up from 2000 to 3000 hours.

I'm honest when I say that HDTV signals are chunked full of eye candy and details, even though it is being scaled down to 800 X 600. DVDs look awesome, better than what I expect in theaters. I have created a masking system so that I only see the widescreen area for dvds(I get about an 84" diagonal image), and a full 100" screen for SD and videogames. PM me and I can gladfy show it off to ya when I'm back in town later in August.

On the rptv, I think $1,000 is probably about as high as you can go. Considering the age of the set, and the lowering prices on current sets, you might want to go a bit lower. I think audiogon.com has a blue book section that gives reference prices for used equipment.

abcward

07-22-04, 09:49 AM

jedi35,

I am interested in checking out your projector. I too am in the market for a fairly inexpensive projector and screen. I am a relative newbie when it comes to both of these products and need all the information I can get before making my purchase.

Bruce

duihlein

07-22-04, 10:43 AM

Jedi35,
Thanks for the input. I keep going back and foth between the LCD and DLP technologies. I've done lot's of investigating and think I know the pluses and minuses of each. I also think no matter what projector I purchase I will buy a newer one in 2 years (when I build my next home) so I do feel this is a short term solution.

Units I'm looking at:
LCD
Panasonic AE500
Sanyo Z2

DLP
SharpVision Z200 or DT-300

Here's my breakdown

LCD - Pluses
Low cost for high resolution - I can get 1280x720P LCD for less than $2K

LCD - Minuses
Lower light output than DLP
Can suffer from ScreenDoor Effect. (The Z2 and AE500 do not seem to suffer from this)
Can suffer from Dust Blobs
Can suffer from dead pixels

DLP - Pluses
Higher light output.
Better blacks and color
Better contrast

DLP - Minuses
higher cost for lower resolution (cannot afford WXGA)
Can suffer from Rainbow effect causing headaches

I really like the 3D look of my current set with HD sources and I worry that stepping down in resolution I will lose that aspect.

Decisions, decisions...

Dave

DroptheRemote

07-22-04, 10:46 AM

The following is from TVPredictions.com:

FWIW, I think Phillip Swan's claim that there are only 2 million HD receivers in the market is grossly incorrect (though he repeats this stat in every story he does on HDTV). For one thing, I think he's overlooking the the number of households receiving HD via cable.

____________________________________________

DIRECTV Wakes Up On HDTV

The satellite TV service announces its first major High-Definition TV offering in more than a year. Plus, the company says more HDTV is coming.

By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (July 22) -- DIRECTV is back in the HDTV game. Or, so it says.

DIRECTV announced this week that it will provide as many as 100 National Football League games in High-Definition TV this Fall. The broadcasts will require a subscription to the service's "NFL Sunday Ticket" package, which costs around $200. However, the offering will be DIRECTV's first major HDTV initiative in more than a year. In July 2003, DIRECTV added a monthly package of four high-def channels (plus high-def versions of HBO and Showtime for subscribers to those channels.)

The announcement is long overdue. DIRECTV, which once was a leader in providing HDTV programming, has fallen behind the cable TV industry at a critical time. HDTV sales have steadily climbed over the last year, with nearly 10 million homes now owning high-def sets. (However, only about two million have the HDTV tuners required to receive high-def signals.) Plus, studies show that millions of Americans are considering buying a new HDTV.

____________________________________________

Complete story available at:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvhdtv072204.html

DroptheRemote

07-22-04, 11:13 AM

Dave,

A couple of comments regarding your recent projector post questions:

*While I understand your thinking, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a lower-resolution DLP, especially for a projector that's only designed to be an interim solution.

As jedi has noted several times here, HDTV programming still looks extremely impressive on an 600x800 DLP. It's unlikely it's going to look as detailed as a 720x1280 LCD, but I think the fact that you're coming from an RPTV where underengineering is likely compromising specified horizontal resolution, the step down to 600x800 wouldn't be nearly as significant as you would expect in just looking at the raw numbers.

* Also, I think that $1000 for the sale of your Hitachi is reasonable.

If you were selling your HDTV on the open market, you could (and should) make the case that your television received exceptional care, including the fact that it was calibrated shortly after you purchased it. Of course, you have a copy of the calibration report I prepared for your set to support that claim.

Also, as a routine matter I'd be prepared to vouch for the condition of any set that I calibrated (of course, assuming I found no prior abuse). And if it were helpful, I'd be prepared to do a physical inspection and prepare a written report documenting the condition of a set offered for sale, for a nominal charge.

I appreciate that none of this is really necessary in making a sale to your parents, but I think it should factor in how you value a used HDTV.

BudShark

07-22-04, 02:06 PM

Moxi use and reviews are in from Charter customers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=412846

Summary details are that the SD output on the box is very bad - noticeably bad with complaints. This is believed (from another thread about Cableco DVRs in general) that it is due to the MPEG encoding of the snowy analog signal. HD channels are fine - digital channels are fine. Its the analog channels that are so bad. Interface is good, multichannel viewing is good - basically a functional PVR aside from the SD issues.

Cost is $17/mo. $7 for the box, $10 for the service. This is from Charter customers in 2 different cities. Clarification is still being sought as to whether or not the 'HD' service is included. In other words, there is a $3 HD box premium that may or may not also need to be paid. All HD channel services (except local) are still $3.99.

With the fact that in St. Louis we will get DirecTVs FOX HD NY or FOX HD LA, and 100+ Sunday Ticket HD games - I'm thinking that is my direction. I won't be getting the HD Tivo - probably just paying $79/each for 2 SD Tivo's, and $299 for an HD box. If Charter gets the box out in time for me to review it (before Sept. 3), I will take a look, but with stagnation on channels and the cost/issues with their DVR, I'm leaning towards DirecTV...

Chris

SkipD

07-22-04, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by davesalaman
Hi All,

I'm new to HD, having just purchased my Samsung tx-p2670wh a couple weeks ago.

After reading the thread, I've decided to wait until the MOXI is availavle before upgrading the cable to HD. So, for now, my playground is strictly OTA.

Everything looks fine so far, with one exception; ABC's 720p HD programming on 30-1 has motion problems. There seems to be a constantly changing rendering speed which causes a jerky appearance. This is so bad as to make it unwatchable. All SD programming is perfectly fine. The signal strength is 5 bars, as strong as any other station (except WRBU), and I've tried three different antennas.

Been watching 1080i programming on other channels fine. I'm wondering if my new set has a defective tuner ?

Anyone seen this before ?

---
Dave

I have the same problem. Using Samsung TS360 (D* STB) I wonder if the tuner built into your CRT uses the same "guts." Apparently some models from various manufacturers have a similar problem....Let us know if you get it resolved.

Regards,
Skip

duihlein

07-22-04, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by BudShark
Moxi use and reviews are in from Charter customers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=412846

Summary details are that the SD output on the box is very bad - noticeably bad with complaints. This is believed (from another thread about Cableco DVRs in general) that it is due to the MPEG encoding of the snowy analog signal. HD channels are fine - digital channels are fine. Its the analog channels that are so bad. Interface is good, multichannel viewing is good - basically a functional PVR aside from the SD issues.

Chris

Maybe this will force Charter to put duplicates of it's analog channels on the digital side as well. Analog siqnal quality is one of the main reasons I have stayed away from Charter (price and better equipment being the others)

Dave

Scroft391

07-22-04, 05:42 PM

About 3 months ago I had a one on one conversation with an individual who was high up in the Engineering department at Charter. Naturally, I grilled him about Charter's services of the future. One interesting tid bit was the time table to upgrade to true digital signals. He said it was at least a year or two away. Too bad. He was also testing out the Moxi boxes personally and laughed when I said I heard we were getting them in July. More like 4th quarter was his comment.

Another fact relayed to me was that the current configuration of the cable system will only allow for 2 more HD channels. He said they could rework the specifications to get more channels but there were no plans to do that in the near future. Also, he said don't hold your breath on ABC-HD coming soon. We'll see other stations join before ABC does.

DroptheRemote

07-22-04, 05:52 PM

There's a really interesting interview in the new (August 2004) issue of Widescreen Review with Amir Majidmehr who heads up the division at Microsoft responsible for Windows Media Video.

Here's one interesting extract:

______________________________________

WSR Reber: Going back to the HD delivery, what about the Blu-ray Disc Founders Group?

Majidimehr: Currently, Blu-ray has chosen MPEG-2 as their only video codec. I cannot speak for them, but suffice it to say, we have also been having discussions with them, about adopting more advanced compression. It is kind of strange to have optical technology that’s very fresh and, to some people, beyond state-of-the-art, and pair it with video compression technology that was invented over a decade ago. We are hoping that the Blu-ray Disc Group would also consider adding new technology like Windows Media Video HD for better picture quality and compatibility with the PC and Internet worlds. As I mentioned before, Windows Media Video HD provides three times the efficiency of MPEG 2, resulting in a scenario where you can store dramatically more content on each disc.

WSR Reber: What about support from satellite services and broadcast companies?

Majidimehr: At NAB 2004 we announced support from VOOM and USDTV; both have chosen to use Windows Media Video for their future set-top box offerings. The reason is very simple—bandwidth is the name of the game. With satellite, the cost of sending another bird up in the sky is very, very high, yet everybody wants more channels. More choices, more choices, more choices. So you can either launch expensive satellites or you can use Windows Media Video and get three times the number of channels, or get better picture quality, or a combination thereof. It’s almost a no-brainer for them to adopt. Now, the existing satellite providers that have millions of set-top boxes have an installed base issue of how to migrate, just like the transition to HD with MPEG-2. If you are going to roll out a new set-top box to homes (for HD), you might as well build in advanced compression, as the cost is negligible, even if you don’t want to use it this minute. Companies like USDTV and VOOM have the vision to actually deploy and use it, but even if a company thinks they don’t need advanced compression now, it is only prudent to have it built into new set-top boxes because adding it after you have 10 million HD set-top boxes is very, very expensive. In other words, pay a few dollars now and avoid spending millions later, and be future-proof to boot.

______________________________________

jedi35

07-23-04, 04:04 AM

Bruce and Dave,

As I stated before, just PM me after Aug. 15 or so when I'm back in town, and we'll arrange your coming over to check out my pj.

I'm not so sure that dlp pjs by nature put out more light than lcds. I've seen plenty of specs on both that suggest that there are lots of pjs of both types that kick out high lumens. In fact, it seems to me that lcds might have the edge. While lower resolution lcds can suffer from the screendoor effect, it's only fair to mention that svga dlps can produce a similar effect, due to the hinges of the tiny mirrors that are reflecting light onto the screen, or perhaps the reason is the pixel structure is more visible at that resolution. I'm not sure which, but the end result is a kind of screendoor effect, and I've had to slightly defocus my image to get rid of it. You can try the same thing with lcds. It helps to be able to get back atleast 1.5X the screen width. Along with the better blacks of dlps, keep in mind that they usually feature a smoother, more film-like image for home theater use, while lcds do great with sharp graphics and text, making them a better choice for office presentations. Yes, I do see quite a few rainbows on my pj, but I'm lucky that I'm not afected by them. If you can get a dlp with a color wheel speed greater than 3X, you'll see fewer of them, if any at all.

duihlein

07-23-04, 10:11 AM

Thanks Jedi35,

I have decided to go with a 4x3 XGA DLP. The current model I'm looking at is the NEC HT1000. Retail is MUCH higher than I wanted to go. But I've seen it on the web within my price range. The high end of my price range. I don't plan on buying till october/november (my wife recently lost her job so all purchases are on hold. Anyone looking for a marketing/pr person?)

I will definately be looking forward to seeing your setup in August. I'm not sure what sources you have, but I could probably bring my HD30000 if your interested in seeing DTheater (XMEN/XMEN2/ICE AGE)

Ice024

07-23-04, 10:46 AM

I was wondering if anyone knows if and when charter will offer Dicovery Hd, Abc Hd , and Inhd1&2 in St.louis,Mo Any info or thaughts would be great

duihlein

07-23-04, 10:49 AM

Due to Charter dragging it's feet I have decided to pull the trigger on replacing my 2 Dishplayer 7200's with a single Dish PVR721. This will actually save me $15 off my current bill (Dish forced me to subscribe to Personal TV to unlock recodings we made while on vacation)

After selling the Dishplayers on Ebay it should be a wash.

I am now thinking of adding an 811 (if not, I won't have a Dish reciever connected to my HDTV limiting my viewing to DVD's and OTA HD)

Are there still deals available for the 811? Do they require recommiting. I would like to still have the option of going to Charter if they ever get their act together (release DVR and mount all channels on Digital channels, or at least duplicate the most popular analog)

If you own an 811 are you happy with it? I'd like a 921, but at the moment that is out of the question.

wilkemp

07-23-04, 11:06 AM

I was looking for a dish offer a few days ago. Dish's website does not offer the free 811, however, many of the ad sites for Dish do offer the free 811 with free install. I have even seen a couple of sites offer two free 811s. I usally just type in dish in my search engine and go from there.

If Scroft391's info is correct about Charter this could be very dissappointing, I can wait a little while longer but NFL season is approaching fast and there may be too much HD football to stick with charter.

DroptheRemote

07-23-04, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Ice024
I was wondering if anyone knows if and when charter will offer Dicovery Hd, Abc Hd , and Inhd1&2 in St.louis,Mo Any info or thaughts would be great
Ice024 --

Charter has given no indication of any plans to add HD channels. That's not to say that there isn't a plan to do so, or that there aren't discussions within the bowels of Charter organization about adding HD channels, but rather there's no official word of any near-term plan to do so.

Charter, as a rule, doesn't announce anything until they know they are going to do something, and even then delays have occurred in the past, most notably with the rollout of HD service. To be fair, DirecTV and DISH follow a similar policy in holding off on announcing new developments, though their track record is better in terms of timely followthrough once they say they're going to do something.

On another note, I don't enjoy being one of those guys that needles newcomers about reading before asking, but Scroft just yesterday posted some info about ABC (KDNL) on Charter -- it's only four posts removed from your own question, which makes it really difficult for me not to comment on that.

Seriously, there's lots and lots of great info here each month, so it's really to your benefit to scroll through the current month's thread before asking a question that may have been asked and/or answered previously. If you don't do that in future, don't be surprised if you don't get a timely response.

Also, it's worth noting that there's a very nifty "search this thread" function at the top of each page here on AVS. That's a quick way to check to see if something you're interested in has been recently discussed.

Ice024, I apologize for ragging on you before even welcoming you here -- maybe I got out of bed on the wrong side today (or maybe just too early).

But apart from that, welcome! ;)

abcward

07-23-04, 11:29 AM

i'm heading to the kitchen to make Doug some decaf ;)

dweebe

07-23-04, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Scroft391
About 3 months ago I had a one on one conversation with an individual who was high up in the Engineering department at Charter. Naturally, I grilled him about Charter's services of the future. One interesting tid bit was the time table to upgrade to true digital signals. He said it was at least a year or two away. Too bad. He was also testing out the Moxi boxes personally and laughed when I said I heard we were getting them in July. More like 4th quarter was his comment.

Another fact relayed to me was that the current configuration of the cable system will only allow for 2 more HD channels. He said they could rework the specifications to get more channels but there were no plans to do that in the near future. Also, he said don't hold your breath on ABC-HD coming soon. We'll see other stations join before ABC does.

I wonder if the ABC problem is due to Sinclair being a bunch of jerks or Charter having system limitations and wanting to save the 2 remaining HD channels for something they can charge money for?

Scroft391

07-23-04, 11:48 AM

To expand upon my previous post, it was told to me that Sinclair was wanting Charter to pay for the HD services. Sinclair's logic is that Charter is benefiting financially by offering a HD serviceand would benefit even more with ABC-HD in this service. This financial benefit is in the form of advertising spots and any fees they may charge in the future for the HD service. Charter's logic is that the signal is free over the air waves for the average person with the right set-up so why should Charter pay for it. I got the impression the two remaining HD slots would be used up by other channels such as Discover and something else before we see ABC-HD.

GlendaleHDTV

07-23-04, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Dave Beebe
I wonder if the ABC problem is due to Sinclair being a bunch of jerks or Charter having system limitations and wanting to save the 2 remaining HD channels for something they can charge money for?

I'm thinking (hoping) its because Sinclair is a bunch of jerks. If you take a glance through some of the other non-St. Louis threads on here, you will note other problems with Sinclair with respect to Fox stations, etc.

It seems like the only other HD channels Charter could add and charge for would be one of the premium movie channels (i.e. Starz, Skinemax). That's assuming they wouldn't try and add another HD tier to their existing 3 channel HD tier (HDnet, HDnet movies, espn-hd):rolleyes:. As for Ice's question about INHD, I believe that network is owned by Comcast, Cox, and TimeWarner, and although it is carried by some other cable companies (Adelphia, Cablevision) I think most cable co's either carry INHD or HDNet but not both.

duihlein

07-23-04, 11:53 AM

I am just about to pull the trigger on the 811 upgrade. $99 for the install (which will include upgrading my current Sw21's so I can use both the 721 and 811. I'll have to get the HD pack for 1 yr. Lease payment is $5 with no additional reciever fee. So my new billing breakdown

Current
$43 Programming fee
$5 addition box fee
$10 Personal TV fee

New
$53 Programming fee (With HD Tier)
$5 Lease fee

Total cost for the whole deal is the $99 installation fee which will cover my new switch and I will also ask the installer to check the alignment of my dish.

Bring on ESPN HD Football!!!

jedi35

07-23-04, 12:11 PM

duihlein,

Not to worry, I have plenty of hd sources connected to my pj:
JVC 30K dvhs connected with firewire to a Charter HD box
and a Sammy T165 tuner (also have a T150 collecting dust)
Voom receiver
Sammy HD931 dvd player(doesn't really count since I have no dvi input on the pj, and it's not a true hd source anyway)

You can just bring the dvhs movies you have since you know what they look like on your setup(I do have one of the X-men movies, can't remember which one).

abcward

07-23-04, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
and a Sammy T165 tuner (also have a T150 collecting dust)

Any interest in selling the T150?

BudShark

07-23-04, 12:43 PM

I'm just trying to justify the HDTivo at this point...

299 HD box, 79 for Tivo - that makes the combo 378... so the HDTivo is really just a $612 upgrade. If I could find a 10% off somewhere it would be JUST a $512 upgrade... time to keep searching...

Chris

turls

07-23-04, 04:07 PM

DirecTV will give you a discount if you have been a customer long enough and paid bills on time. Usually between $150-$250. I have heard more.

turls

07-23-04, 04:08 PM

Remember, that signal is being split to 2 tuners inside the HR10-250. That being said, the chance they didn't cut corners and put the best tuner for the job in there is probably 0%.

I get pretty frustrated wondering if it is my signal or not since I'm in a fringe area. I thought I lost Leno during Halle Berry and everybody else here did too. Lots of links in the chain should be improved.

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
The HD Tivo definitely has an OTA tuner that's inferior to my HTL-HD and my previous Sony HD100. There's not a cloud in the sky today and channel 46-1 is still pixellating and macroblocking like crazy. So Wednesday night's problems were not from the storms after all.

The same picture, from the same channel, from the same antenna, still looks great on the HTL-HD.

duihlein

07-23-04, 04:23 PM

Just ordered it. To be installed on Aug 7. I should have my PVR-721 by then. 2 Dishplayers should be going up for sale soon after the 721 is activated. Since it is a lease I am assuming they will let me "upgrade" to leasing a 922 when it becomes available. When all is done I should have upgraded my SD PVR gear and added HD with no increase in monthly cost and initial cost of only $99 install fee.

Who knows, if I get enough off of ebay I may actually make money!

Dave

jedi35

07-23-04, 05:06 PM

abcward,

I've often been tempted to sell my T150. However, I have a Pioneer 53" hd monitor in another room, and eventually want to feed it with hd signals again. Thanks for the offer, but I need to hold on to it.

Toeside

07-23-04, 07:53 PM

I'm behind on this thread. We have moved into our new house in O'Fallon, and I set up my media room yesterday. Well, partially anyway.

I haven't had a chance to pull my Silver Sensor out of my in-laws attic, but I found an old Philips VHF/UHF/FM antenna in a box we moved. I was curious, so I hooked it up to the HD TiVo.

All Digital locals come in perfectly no matter how this cheap, old antenna is positioned. I'm amazed! I haven't checked signal strength yet, and I just realized I haven't checked UPN yet, but this is unbelieveable.

Oh, looks like my HDMI port on the HD TiVo died. :(

BudShark

07-23-04, 09:43 PM

I'll give you $150 for your broken, busted, worthless HDTivo. A great deal for you in my opinion! :)

Chris

Toeside

07-23-04, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by BudShark
I'll give you $150 for your broken, busted, worthless HDTivo. A great deal for you in my opinion! :)

Chris

Um, uh, no. :) Only the HDMI port busted. I'm using component for now. I'll be sure to get it replaced before the warranty is up.

Nice try though!

Craig

Robert Simandl

07-24-04, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by BudShark
I'm just trying to justify the HDTivo at this point...

299 HD box, 79 for Tivo - that makes the combo 378... so the HDTivo is really just a $612 upgrade. If I could find a 10% off somewhere it would be JUST a $512 upgrade... time to keep searching...

Chris

Hey Chris,

eBay paid for my HD Tivo.

My Sony HD100 (p.o.s. that it was) fetched me $750. :eek:

My two Dish Network receivers and single LNB dish (bought 'em before there was any such thing as a "Dish500") got $250.

Net cost for HD Tivo: Zero.

Best zero bucks I ever spent. :D

Robert Simandl

07-24-04, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Dave Beebe
I wonder if the ABC problem is due to Sinclair being a bunch of jerks or Charter having system limitations and wanting to save the 2 remaining HD channels for something they can charge money for?

Hey Dave,

I'd say most likely it's the first guess above.

Sinclair being a bunch of jerks is what caused St. Louis SD locals to take as long as they did to show up on both DirecTV and Dish. In fact, for those first few months, DirecTV only offered 2, 4, and 5, with a sign on the next channel up that said "This channel reserved for KDNL ABC 30. Please call (Sinclair's number) and tell them you want to see them on DirecTV."

Up 'til then we had assumed that Belo Broadcasting (owner of KMOV) was the problem. But it turned out to be Sinclair.

Robert Simandl

07-24-04, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by duihlein
Just ordered it. To be installed on Aug 7. I should have my PVR-721 by then. 2 Dishplayers should be going up for sale soon after the 721 is activated. Since it is a lease I am assuming they will let me "upgrade" to leasing a 922 when it becomes available. When all is done I should have upgraded my SD PVR gear and added HD with no increase in monthly cost and initial cost of only $99 install fee.

Who knows, if I get enough off of ebay I may actually make money!

Dave

Hey Dave,

A friend of mine who leases the ancient 501 from Dish tells me the Dish CSR's won't let him upgrade to the 721 (or even the 510) until or unless something goes wrong with the one he's got. He's been told this from three different CSR's.

Charter will be wiring his neighborhood some time next month and when they do, he's going to switch.

Far as eBay goes, I was VERY pleasantly surprised at how much my even more ancient Dish Network receivers (models 2700 and 4700) got.

Robert Simandl

07-24-04, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Toeside
I'm behind on this thread. We have moved into our new house in O'Fallon, and I set up my media room yesterday. Well, partially anyway.

I haven't had a chance to pull my Silver Sensor out of my in-laws attic, but I found an old Philips VHF/UHF/FM antenna in a box we moved. I was curious, so I hooked it up to the HD TiVo.

All Digital locals come in perfectly no matter how this cheap, old antenna is positioned. I'm amazed! I haven't checked signal strength yet, and I just realized I haven't checked UPN yet, but this is unbelieveable.

Oh, looks like my HDMI port on the HD TiVo died. :(

Sorry to hear about your HDMI port, heard that's a common problem with these HD Tivos. :(

By the time I'll have a chance to hook up an HDMI cable to something and find out if my port even works, the warranty will be long gone. :eek:

I'll be most interested in whether you get a usable signal on 46-1 or not. I still don't, and have dumped my Enterprise season pass on 46-1.

Send me an email at rsimandl@iname.com and we'll get together some time. We can't be more than two minutes apart.

DroptheRemote

07-24-04, 01:10 PM

Nice VOOM infomercial showing before the FOX Saturday afternoon baseball game. They're definitely pushing the HD message hard...

Charter, are you watching? DirecTV? DISH?

Note: I was expecting the game of the week at 12:00p, but I see now that the game isn't until midafternoon. The infomercial ran on KTVI at just before noon.

jdonigan

07-25-04, 11:56 AM

Does anybody have a LG 3410A HDD OTA HDTV recorder, and if so, how is it working out?

STLBCSTENG

07-26-04, 01:00 PM

In respnose to Scroft391's post on 7/20 here is the reply sent to him from WRBU.

Scott,

Thank you for your reply and concern. Even though Enterprise and Jake 2.0 were shot in HD the network did not feed and is not planning on feeding HD signals to the affiliates. The majority of UPN affiliates do not house the facilities necessary to carry High Definition signals thus impacting UPN's decision. Please remember that UPN is a sister network to CBS both are owned by Viacom. Viacom is sinking all its development dollars for HD technology into the CBS facilities and not the UPN network. Should Viacom invest monies into UPN for HD upgrades WRBU will rethink its position on this matter. The master control facility at WRBU was built in 2003 as one of only two 100% digital facilities in St. Louis thus allowing easy upgrades to HD technology when adequate programming is available. (The other 100% digital station is KETC 9) UPN only provides us with 2hrs of programming per night the remaining 22hrs are syndicated programs purchased by WRBU. CBS affiliates receive 18hrs of programming from the network and the rest is filled with local news and a few syndicated programs. Given these numbers one can easily see why Viacom has neglected to upgrade the UPN network to HD.

Thanks for watching the U!

WRBU UPN-46

A Roberts Broadcasting Company