St. Louis, MO - HDTV *OLD* [Text View] - Page 11

grogs

07-31-04, 03:15 PM

You are not going to believe me.
I am kind of using both.

Since I am using HDTV OTA in my basement pulling in stations was a bit of a problem.

I have a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna.

First thing I did was try to move the antenna to every location in the basement but I was not able to get strong signals on all the stations I wanted.

I ran extra cable on the antenna and had it on the 1st then the 2nd floor. Worked very well especially running it up the stairs to the top floor and pointing it toward the window.

Problem is I just can not keep the setup, wife does not like that much wire running up the stairs and I can't blame her.

Since I have DISH Network I decided to run my cable along the same route outside and put the Zenith Silver Sensor next to the dish antenna. Well that did not work well. I found putting the antenna half-way up the house worked great.

My final setup I took the plactic bracket off the Zenith Silver Sensor and ran it half-way up the house following the existing Dish Cable wire. I stuck the antenna in-betwen the wire and tied it down. It is not going to move. Looks very good actually and works very well. I also grounded the antenna wire to the cold water pipe so it meets the outdoor antenna requirments. My 1st thoughts were that this was just a test and I would run down and get a small UHF outdoor antenna and place it where I knew it needed to be. But hey, it works, the Zenith Silver Sensor seems fine in bad weather. I might just leave it this way.

Greg

Originally posted by Toeside
Regarding ESPN-HD blackouts of Cardinal games, I wrote the following email to the Cardinals organization via their website:

I'm not sure if I'm correct in that the Cards have deciding factor on the Blackout restrictions, but I know that the Blues have lifted blackouts, so why can't the Cards.

Hopefully I'll get some response.

Craig

DroptheRemote

08-01-04, 10:43 AM

A new month and a new thread...and here's the link to the last message in the July 2004 thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4132564#post4132564

DroptheRemote

08-01-04, 10:44 AM

Closing out the July 2004 thread.

Here's the link to August 2004:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4134752#post4134752

DroptheRemote

08-01-04, 10:46 AM

St Louis Tower Maps

For anyone doing the initial install of an OTA antenna, or anyone looking to fine-tune the positioning of their existing antenna, the attached ZIP file contains two maps showing the tower location for each digital station in St. Louis.

Your Right to Erect an Antenna and/or Satellite Dish

As more and more consumers purchase high-definition displays, there's increasing interest in arranging for receipt of HD programming via an over-the-air antenna or through a satellite dish.

Unfortunately with the proliferation of cable television in the 1980s and 1990s, many communities, property developers and homeowner/condo owner associations tried to undo the visual blight of antennas (and later, satellite dishes) from their local skylines. While these laws, rules or convenants were well-intended -- after all, it would be difficult to argue for the cosmetic benefits of a yagi antenna -- these actions are not legally enforceable.

The FCC has ruled -- with only a few very narrow exceptions -- that you have the right to receive over-the-air television and radio broadcasts and as a result you have a right to erect an antenna to receive these signals. This ruling also encompasses the erection of small satellite dishes.

Even if you have previously signed a lease or homeower association convenant that requires you to forego the right to erect an antenna or satellite dishes, the FCC has ruled that these types of provisions are unenforceable.

In general, there are only a few notable exceptions to this rule:

* First, the location of the antenna or dish must be an "exclusive use" area. As a homeowner or condominium owner, this would mean any part of the property over which you have control. For renters, this would also apply to balconies or patios that are intended solely for your use. The sort of rental property area that would not be covered would be general use areas, such as common passageways or rooftop areas that are clearly intended for the shared use of all residents.

* Second, the antenna or dish cannot be erected in areas that would create a legitimate safety issue, for example one that is dangling off a balcony or placed too close to electrical wiring.

* Third, there may be restrictions if you are located in a designated historical (or prehistorical) district, in which case a permit may be required.

The other major limitation is that these devices cannot exceed 1 meter (39.37 inches) in diameter.

The burden of proof in contesting your right to mount a dish and/or antenna rests with the landlord, homeowner association, city council, etc. Strictly speaking, you do not need to seek prior permission or provide prior notice, so long as the device is to be situated in an area under your control and there is no obvious safety issue.

However, before taking on the expense and effort of such an installation, you should read and review in its entirety the following summary of the FCC ruling on consumer rights to mount over-the-air devices:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

More Information about Antennas and DTV

The Consumer Electronics Association antenna mapping program at AntennaWeb.org can help you determine the proper antenna to use, based on your own location and the distance from the local digital broadcast towers.

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Feedback to St. Louis Stations

Is there something that you're unhappy about concerning the digital broadcasts by local St. Louis stations?

Weird-looking presentation of standard-definition programming? Multiple channel bugs cluttering up those beautiful images? Somebody at the station forgot to "flip the switch" before or during the middle of your favorite HD program?

Or better yet, maybe you'd just like to send your thanks and encouragement to your favorite local station for the effort they've made so far in providing us with more and better HD programming. The cost and effort in providing digital and HD programming is significant, and it's important for the station owners and management to know that we're watching.

Well, here's the place where you can find the online addresses where you can send your comments and feedback.

KTVI Channel 2 contact:
ktvitech@fox2ktvi.com

KMOV Channel 4 contact:
programs@kmov.com
WNichol@kmov.com

KSDK Channel 5 contact:
jheskett@ksdk.gannett.com
kcreamer@ksdk.gannett.com

KETC Channel 9 contact:
letters@ketc.org

KPLR Channel 11 contact:
whatson@wb11tv.com
technical@wb11tv.com

KDNL Channel 30 contact:
jwright@kdnl.sbgnet.com

WRBU Channel 46 contact:
[no email, no web site, no HD programming]

DroptheRemote

08-01-04, 10:47 AM

* There are two ways to receive local digital/HD broadcasts in the St. Louis area. The first, and by far simplest, is to subscribe to Charter Cable. Unfortunately, Charter doesn't currently provide all of the available St. Louis digital stations. To date, Charter is only offering KTVI-DT (FOX), KMOV-DT (CBS) and KSDK-DT (NBC).

Until Charter is able to deliver a complete line-up of local digital/HD stations (or if you've already selected satellite for your subscription television service), you'll need some sort of antenna -- either indoor, attic or roof mount.

* Forget most of what you know about receiving traditional analog television via an antenna, as digital broadcasting is for the most part a different animal.

The first and most important thing to know is that digital signals, once received, tend to be highly stable. The sort of artifacts that you may recall about pre-cable antenna reception of local stations isn't all that relevant to digital reception. For example, in the digital realm there's no visual equivalent to the analog artifacts known as "snow," or "ghosting."

And in most cases, a digital signal won't slowly fade in and out as was sometimes the case in fringe analog reception areas. For the most part, with digital broadcasts you either receive the signal and have a near-perfect picture and sound, or you won't get anything at all.

In addition, barring significant topographical or architectural obstacles between your location and the transmission towers, digital signals appear to be more robust in terms of distance they can travel without degradation. While it's the exception rather than the rule, there are instances where digital OTA signals have been received as far as 120 miles from the tower.

So, just because you may have had difficulty with OTA analog signals in the past at your location, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to receive digital OTA signals.

* All of the current St. Louis digital/HD stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF spectrum. The UHF channel assignments for local stations appears below:

26 - KPLR (WB)
31 - KDNL (ABC)
35 - KSDK (NBC)
39 - KETC (PBS)
43 - KTVI (FOX)
47 - WRBU (UPN)
56 - KMOV (CBS)

Today, all St. Louis stations are "simulcasting," with the traditional analog broadcasts via one frequency and the digital/HD broadcasts through another. For example, KMOV sends its analog broadcasts out as VHF channel 4 and then simulataneously sends its digital broadcasts as UHF channel 56.

As the transition to digital broadcasting progresses, there will come a time when the analog broadcasts will be discontinued and stations will only be transmitting digitally. While this switch from analog to digital was originally scheduled to take place in 2006, it's almost certain that the analog shutdown will be deferred for at least a few years.

But when that analog shutdown does occur, it's possible that one or more local stations will decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their longtime analog channel designations. As a purely hypothetical example, after shutting down its analog broadcasts, KMOV might opt to move its digital transmission to VHF channel 4.

* While the signals for digital/HD broadcasts are made up of binary data (zeros and ones), from a viewer perspective, there's nothing special about the antenna required to receive those broadcasts. As noted above, the actual transmission takes place over the UHF spectrum. That means that if you already have an old UHF-capable antenna on your rooftop or in your attic, there's a good chance that it will receive some, and possibly all, of the available local digital broadcasts. The only way to conclusively determine if that older antenna will carry you into the digital age is to test it.

However, it is possible that in order to maximize signal integrity you might need to upgrade the cable run from an existing antenna to your distribution point(s), especially if the antenna uses the flimsy ribbon-type cable connection. If you need to replace the cable for an existing antenna, RG-6 quad-shield coax is recommended. A 1,000-foot roll of RG-6 quad coax can be purchased for around $75, though it is possible to buy smaller quantities at a higher per-foot cost.

* If you're starting from scratch and need to purchase an antenna, there is some merit in selecting a UHF-only antenna. While a combo VHF-UHF antenna would likely work in many situations, a UHF-only antenna will normally give better, more reliable results. If you do have an existing antenna and it isn't capable of pulling in all of the stations in the area, there's a good chance that swapping out for a UHF-only antenna would result in better reception.

Of course, the downside in opting for a UHF-only antenna is that if any of the local stations subsequently decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their old analog channel assignment, a VHF antenna might be required to continue receiving those stations.

* Without officially endorsing one antenna over another, here are some suggestions that should work for most viewers within a 45-mile radius of the St. Louis transmission towers.

But first, bear in mind that antenna reception is one part art and one part science. What works in one location might not work across the street due to topographical or physical obstacles in the signal path at that second location. But that sort of anomaly is rare, and antenna reception is normally achievable with some reasonable effort and determination. But it is important to understand that there are no certainties and the only way to find out what can be received with an antenna in a given location is to test one yourself or arrange for one to be installed by a proven installer.

For outdoor or attic antennae, ChannelMaster sells at least two UHF-only models that you should consider -- the CM4221 (retail $25), which is a 4-bay rated for 45 miles, and the CM4228 (retail $50), which is an 8-bay rated for 60 miles. Winegard has the Prostar 1000 model PR-4400 rated for 45 miles, and the PR-8800 rated for 60 miles. Radio Shack also sells a UHF-only antenna (catalog # 15-2160, $30 retail) that is worth considering.

As a general suggestion, avoid antennas that appear to be working overtime to not look like an antenna. While it's true that traditional antennae are unattractive and a lot of people consider them to be eyesores to be avoided at all cost, the newer streamlined, aerodynamic antennae seem to compromise reception capability in exchange for a more friendly appearance.

For indoor antennas, there are many options here as well, but the current performance leader is the Zenith Silver Sensor (ZHDTV1), which is available at most local Best Buy stores at a cost of around $40. The excellent performance of the Silver Sensor is probably in part due to the fact that Zenith actually designed the technology responsible for the transmission of OTA digital/HD signals, known as 8VSB.

Again, there's no reliable way to predict if an indoor antenna will work in your location, short of buying one and testing it. The good news here is that most of the major retailers have reasonable return policies, so it's unlikely that you'll be out major bucks if it turns out that an indoor antenna isn't up to the job in your home.

Robert Simandl

08-01-04, 10:57 PM

What? No comments on the Cardinals and Giants on ESPN-HD???????

It's like the game is just happening right outside my window!

StLouG

08-01-04, 11:04 PM

The game looks great and the score also looks good.

By the way Charter has updated their web site as far as I can tell it is the same information but new look.

StLouG

08-01-04, 11:13 PM

On second thought the new charter web page has some new information about what's on and they have this:

"As a result of an exciting new agreement with MSN, you now have access to a new start page at http://charter.msn.com."

To be fair their new web site has a better and fresh look to it.

mmac

08-02-04, 03:54 PM

Hi all. Lurk here alot and it's been a great source of info through the many months. My question(s):

1) I live in St. Peters and am looking forward to the Rams games this fall. Are the Rams games scheduled on FOX (chan. 2) or Fox Sports Midwest (Charter chan. 37)? This will all be for not if they are on FSMW.

2) What results are people getting with OTA setups in the St. Peters area?I have been looking at STBs and antennas (I understand that antennas are the make-it or break-it part of the equation). Would a few of you in my area let me know what kind of antenna you are using and what your results are? I would like to go with an attic install because I have the attic decked for storage and it is easily accessable with the retractable stairway.

I wish Charter had more options for us. I currently subscribe to the HDTV package but as many of you, I wish I had the other local channels.

Thanks for all the past support from the regulars! I'm know of others out there who frequently lurk. You are providing a greater service than you know.

Mac in St. Peters

DroptheRemote

08-02-04, 04:03 PM

Mac,

1. Most of the Rams regular season games will be shown on the FOX local (KTVI-DT = 2-1 or 43-1). The only exceptions to this would be when they are scheduled to appear on Monday Night Football (KDNL-DT = 30-1 or 31-1), Sunday Night Football (ESPN-HD via cable or satellite) or when they play an AFC opponent away from home, in which case CBS would (I think) have the broadcast rights (KMOV-DT = 4-1 or 56-1).

2) I'm not located in your area, but a St. Peters location shouldn't present any intractable problems and most likely you should be fine with an attic antenna. I'd suggest the ChannelMaster 4228, but there are others suggested in the "sticky" resource note above. I've done calibrations for several customers in St. Peters and I can't recall off the top of my head any of them having big-time reception problems.

Hope some of this is helpful.

DroptheRemote

08-02-04, 04:06 PM

The following is from SkyREPORT E-News. Although somewhat off-topic, I believe that some of these Pegasus-owned intermediaries presented obstacles to some would-be DirecTV customers here:

___________________________________

BREAKING NEWS: DirecTV to Get Pegasus Subs

DirecTV said it has agreed to purchase the primary DBS assets of Pegasus, including rights to all DirecTV subscribers activated through the company that was selling DirecTV service in rural areas.

DirecTV said it will pay $875 million in cash, subject to certain adjustments. The payment reflects the dismissal of all claims between the parties, including a $63 million judgment entered in May in favor of DirecTV against Pegasus, the satellite TV company said. Taking into account the judgment, the aggregate purchase price is about $938 million.

The agreement has been approved by the creditors' committee in Pegasus' Chapter 11 proceedings. The transaction is expected to be completed within the next four to six weeks, subject to approval from the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Maine and applicable antitrust filings and approvals. DirecTV said it expects the bankruptcy court hearing to approve the transaction will be held in late August.

In addition, DirecTV also said it expects to complete the migration of Pegasus customers to its subscriber rolls within 30 to 45 days. Pegasus had about 1.08 million customers as of June 1.

___________________________________

mmac

08-02-04, 04:07 PM

Thanks Doug... it's all helpful.

I have even thought of giving you a shout for your services, but I have yet to pull the trigger. Maybe someday. You sure have a large fan base !

Mac

DroptheRemote

08-02-04, 04:10 PM

Mac,

Glad to help.

And I'm always ready to convert a fan into a customer (who remains a fan).

Jut let me know if you want to get your set ready for football season.

abcward

08-02-04, 04:19 PM

It's August now - has anyone heard any new information on Charter's PVR boxes yet? Hopefully we can get them this month.

Cardinal game on ESPN-HD was beautiful. I wish we could get every Cardinal and Blues game in HD.

I do hope though that sometime soon they are able to better utilize HD technology while broadcasting sports and pan back a bit so we can see more of the field at one time. I'm guessing that the camera/production people will have to get out of their old SD habits. HD can handle a wider view and it would be advantageous to do less chasing of the ball/puck. HDNet broadcasts some NHL games and they seem to attempt to get more of the ice in at one time as compared to ESPN SD broadcasts. IMHO it makes for a more enjoyable experience - more like seeing the game from a seat in the stadium.

Bruce

DroptheRemote

08-02-04, 04:33 PM

Bruce,

I agree with you on the game last night. I thought it looked, for the most part, excellent. What strikes me most about the Cards in HD is how much better the red color in the uniform and cap look than with standard definition.

My only real quibble is that the centerfield camera shot was a bit grainy and a lot less detailed looking. Not sure if this is just a given with the long lens required to shoot from that distance, or if there's some other issue with the camera ESPN uses for those shots. I've always been a bit suspicious of the "overlay" ads (the "billboard ads" to the left of the home plate umpire that are virtually created in the studio). I wonder if that isn't part of the explanation, as that technology was likely designed with NTSC, not HD, in mind.

As for the camera angles, because ESPN is shooting for a joint HD/SD production, they are composing their shots with the SD viewer in mind. This is less an issue for HDNet, at least on those occasions where the crew is shooting for HDNet exclusively and not as part of a joint SD/HD production. We're stuck with this SD/HD compromise for now, but no doubt there will come a point where shots are composed first and foremost for the HD viewer. But we're probably a few years away from that, at least.

One other highlight (for me, at least) of the recent Sunday Night baseball HD broadcasts is that ESPN has, for the most part, gotten rid of the Bottom Line ticker. It still appears from time to time, but it's no longer permanently shown. I'm not sure if this is a temporary thing or an experiment, but to me the HD broadcast looks ten times better without the Bottom Line.

turls

08-02-04, 05:43 PM

You probably don't know how true this is. If they wanted to pass HD, a decoder that "might" work is a VERY small dollar amount. Unless they up the pathetic output power, it won't do me any good though.

I hope if he posts again he can respond to the output power questions.

Originally posted by BudShark
STLBCSTENG - thanks for the updates and facts. Any input you can provide is invaluable. By the way - we have the master of rigging things together (WRacer) if the Ebay version of HD passthru is needed. :)

Chris

uozzim

08-02-04, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote

1. Most of the Rams regular season games will be shown on the FOX local (KTVI-DT = 2-1 or 43-1). The only exceptions to this would be when they are scheduled to appear on Monday Night Football (KDNL-DT = 30-1 or 31-1), Sunday Night Football (ESPN-HD via cable or satellite) or when they play an AFC opponent away from home, in which case CBS would (I think) have the broadcast rights (KMOV-DT = 4-1 or 56-1).

Close, but not quite. The FOX/NFC, CBS/AFC determination is based on which team is the ROAD team. Thus, any non-ESPN/ABC home games against an AFC opponent (Patriots 11/7/04, Jets 1/2/05) will be on CBS.

DroptheRemote

08-02-04, 08:59 PM

uozzim,

Thanks for setting the record straight. I had a feeling that there was some wrinkle to the AFC/NFC match-ups, but as a non-football fan I didn't know where to check this.

jedi35

08-03-04, 01:45 AM

I didn't know how far Charter was willing to go to pamper me as a customer. It seems that they are waiting until later on in August to release the pvr unit, knowing somehow that I won't return to St. Louis until the 14th or so, and figured that I would be in too much agony up here in the woods of northern Michigan....knowing that a lot of you back home would have been enjoying your new pvrs. How thoughtful, right???

DroptheRemote

08-03-04, 08:42 AM

The following story is from SkyREPORT E-News.

There's no mention whether the NDS technology will work with DirecTV's HD services. Here's a link to general information about the NDS set-top box:

http://www.nds.com/personal_tv/personal_tv.html
__________________________________________

News Corp Unit to Provide DirecTV DVR in 1Q 2005

NDS Group, News Corp.'s TV technology unit, said it's closer to getting DirecTV on board with its services, including a digital video recorder product.

NDS President and CEO Abe Peled said Monday that an agreement with DirecTV has not yet been signed, but added he soon expects a deal with the satellite TV company that will put NDS' XTV DVR into DirecTV set-top boxes, with shipments beginning in first quarter 2005. Also, some of NDS' middleware products may appear in DirecTV systems sometime in the fourth quarter, Peled said.

Peled said NDS has been "spending heavily" on middleware and the XTV digital recorder product for DirecTV, and that the company has made "Significant progress" in developing new technology for the satellite TV company.

News about the XTV DVR in future DirecTV set-top boxes sent TiVo's stock down more than 5 percent to $5.34 Monday. TiVo supplies DirecTV with DVRs, and has generated most of its subscriptions from DirecTV's service.

DirecTV has said in the past it plans to continue using TiVo, though comment wasn't available from the company concerning NDS Monday.

In addition to NDS, News Corp. also controls DirecTV.
__________________________________________

DroptheRemote

08-03-04, 09:07 AM

Interesting thread over on the HD Programming forum about BSBSky, the leading U.K. satellite service, plan to provide HD services.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3908793#post3908793

This is good news for US viewers from the angle that BSBSky is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., which also owns the FOX network in the US and DirecTV.

Although News Corp. properties were anti-HD in the early days of the HD rollout, they seem to have a full dose of the religion now.

NickDeWest

08-04-04, 12:26 AM

ok, ive been lurking this forum for a while now, and i cant seem to find anything about reception in the southern illinois area. i live in carbondale. if someone could direct me to the right forum if it even exists that would be much appreciated. So far with my Silver Sensor and Fusion 3 QAM i can get WSIU, WSIL with very strong signals almost never dropping below 70% but my NBC and CBS stations seem to be very tempermental. It seems each day it gets harder and harder to lock onto their singals and as im posting this right now i cant seem to get either one of them about 40%. Just yesterday i had them at a steady 60 and this morning it was on and off between 30 and 60. Is it weather? or my antenna or something else?

DroptheRemote

08-04-04, 12:46 AM

Nick,

I just checked the Index of Local OTA threads here on AVS, but it doesn't look like there's anything going for Southern Illinois:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=396845

Maybe you can start up your own, as I'm sure that you'd eventually find other regional viewers interested in sharing OTA and HT tips.

Hopefully your post will attract the attention/interest of other Southern Illinois lurkers here.

And, of course, you're welcome here, even though we might not be in a position to help you with reception issues specific to your area.

Robert Simandl

08-04-04, 07:50 AM

KSDK may not be "forgetting" to flip the switch for Leno anymore... but between delays for golf coverage all week and delays for election coverage last night, Leno's STILL been an upconvert a lot more often than he's been HD lately.

To make matters worse, they didn't make it known in advance they'd run the 10:00 news 20 minutes over, so the Tivo recorded from 10:35 to 11:35 as always, and I missed Dennis Miller!

It's times like this i really miss the West Coast network feeds from Dish Network.

All right, I'll stop ranting now....

GlendaleHDTV

08-04-04, 09:00 AM

I had a message on my box last night from Charter that said something like "You may experience some Video on Demand outages on August 3rd and 4th due to a system upgrade". I'm assuming this is the system upgrade that has been blamed for the delay in the PVR devices. If so, maybe they can start deployment next week.:rolleyes:

--Tyler

DroptheRemote

08-04-04, 09:46 AM

And yet, it's cable business as usual...
_____________________________________

Cable Trouble: Subscriber Growth Stalls As Satellite TV Soars

By PETER GRANT
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

August 4, 2004; Page B1

Cable-TV executives scoffed at satellite television services and their huge 8-foot dishes when they began sprouting in rural lawns in the 1980s. By the mid-1990s, the dishes were the size of pizza pans. But the cable industry still dismissed satellite TV as a mild nuisance.

Today, satellite is trouncing cable in the battle for subscribers in rural and urban areas alike, badly damaging the cable industry's reputation as a growth sector on Wall Street.

The cable industry has reached a turning point: For the first time since it was born in the 1950s, the number of households subscribing to cable is declining, according to Kagan Research LLC. The industry has lost some 900,000 U.S. subscribers over the past two years.

Last week, three of the largest cable companies -- Comcast Corp., Cox Communications Inc. and Time Warner Inc.'s cable division -- reported a combined 171,000 lost subscribers, even more than expected. Comcast, the nation's largest cable operator with over 21 million subscribers, lowered its projected gain of 100,000 subscribers in 2004 to simply breaking even.
_____________________________________

The full story (requires paid subscription) can be found here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109157158395582087,00.html?mod=todays_us_marketplace

tcfila

08-04-04, 10:01 AM

FWIW, I spoke with a CSR on some pipeline problems and he said they had begun the training on the moxi box.....

NickDeWest

08-04-04, 10:49 AM

thanks for the advice doug, hopefully i can skip the whole attenna thing once my apartment changes its cable package. Then ill be crying in Fusion QAM threads ;P

dweebe

08-04-04, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
And yet, it's cable business as usual...
_____________________________________

Cable Trouble: Subscriber Growth Stalls As Satellite TV Soars

By PETER GRANT
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

August 4, 2004; Page B1

Cable-TV executives scoffed at satellite television services and their huge 8-foot dishes when they began sprouting in rural lawns in the 1980s. By the mid-1990s, the dishes were the size of pizza pans. But the cable industry still dismissed satellite TV as a mild nuisance.

Today, satellite is trouncing cable in the battle for subscribers in rural and urban areas alike, badly damaging the cable industry's reputation as a growth sector on Wall Street.

The cable industry has reached a turning point: For the first time since it was born in the 1950s, the number of households subscribing to cable is declining, according to Kagan Research LLC. The industry has lost some 900,000 U.S. subscribers over the past two years.

Last week, three of the largest cable companies -- Comcast Corp., Cox Communications Inc. and Time Warner Inc.'s cable division -- reported a combined 171,000 lost subscribers, even more than expected. Comcast, the nation's largest cable operator with over 21 million subscribers, lowered its projected gain of 100,000 subscribers in 2004 to simply breaking even.
_____________________________________

The full story (requires paid subscription) can be found here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109157158395582087,00.html?mod=todays_us_marketplace

Add me to that list of people leaving cable TV/Charter. Cancelled my cable modem and just ordered some of the equipment for my stealth apartment building instal of DirecTV (and will do later this month). There's $100/month Charter could have kept if they would have done a few things better.

[rant on]One thing. Cancelled my cable modem and now Charter is demanding the return of "their" cable modem box. The only thing is that I purchased the modem from Circuit City and have never had a modem box rental charge on my bill. So how can it be Charter's property? The only way they'll believe me is if I take my modem and receipt from the purchase (from 2 1/2 years ago) into a Charter billing office. What a bunch of tools. [rant off]

wuench

08-04-04, 11:18 AM

Yeah, they don't seem to keep track of that equipment very well. When I cancelled my service I returned the cable modem in person to their office and they chased after me for two years asking for it back.

rbkb

08-04-04, 11:42 AM

Since we are starting tha Charter rants again...
I believe Monday Night Football starts next week (pre-season). When will Charter and Sinclair get together and get the agreement done? For what it is worth to Sinclair, I no longer watch ABC 30 due to the fact that I don't get their DTV/HDTV signal via Charter. For what it is worth to Charter, I may just go with D*/Voom, get an OTA antenna just to end the madness of not getting all the major networks DTV signal!!!

In addition, I am getting tired of writing a $130 check every month to Charter...kind of gets my goat to pay that much, and still not be able to get all the channels I want!!!:confused:

Since I am not very quick in making decisions, I hope that the Charter MOXI box may be able to make me impressed again with Charter. My entire family is on TiVO, and they keep telling me that I am in the dark ages, and behind the times without a DVR!!! So, now the Charter MOXI delay has made me a loser in my family's eyes!!!:( :confused:

epalau

08-04-04, 12:12 PM

haha, for every story like Beebe's and wuench's there is one like mine - moved out of my parent's house - canceled charter pipeline - they were supposed to come out one day to get the modem, never came... pipeline is still working for my parents 8 MONTHS later...

I did like my charter pipeline over my current sbc dsl though.

BudShark

08-04-04, 12:30 PM

FWIW - The MOXI reports are still borderline at best. It appears (confirmed) that the digital PVRs make SD quality WORSE - so if you are borderline on your SD quality (channels under 100), you'll either be switching inputs based on the channel or returning the MOXI box. This is common across all cable PVRs, not just MOXI.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that cable loses the high end customer simply because they can't service the quality needs. SD for me is borderline, if it is universal that quality goes down with the PVR box, forget it.

BTW - Scientific Atlanta has addressed the issue with their PVR. Bascially on non-digital channels they don't display the buffer as the live material. Most PVRs buffer and then display. SA is bypassing the buffer (its recording in the background) for their analog content. This results in a 1-2 sec delay when you hit pause - and then it jumps backward 2 secs to the point where you actually hit pause. Motorolla is experimenting with this as well. The problem is that for live material its fine, but you get the pause delay and then the recorded material looks like crap.

This is another advantage of 100% digital on the satellites. Converting digital streams to digital MPEG encoding doesn't present this loss like analog to MPEG does.

Chris

duihlein

08-04-04, 12:33 PM

I finally gave up on waiting for the Charter DVR. Instead I'll be getting my Dish 811 for Sat HD (mainly ESPN) installed on Saturday and continue to use my HiPix to timeshift OTA HD. At least I now I'll have 2 D tuners. :)

turls

08-04-04, 04:14 PM

I don't get this. I record analog OTA on my circa-2000 ReplayTV, and unless there is a lot of analog issues, it looks fine. Why would cable be any different? ReplayTV is doing basically the same MPEG encoding that the cable boxes are.

I don't get the big deal anyway, SD sucks compared to HD, I record SD for timeshift and forget, I don't really care if the picture quality isn't fantastic.

Originally posted by BudShark
FWIW - The MOXI reports are still borderline at best. It appears (confirmed) that the digital PVRs make SD quality WORSE - so if you are borderline on your SD quality (channels under 100), you'll either be switching inputs based on the channel or returning the MOXI box. This is common across all cable PVRs, not just MOXI.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that cable loses the high end customer simply because they can't service the quality needs. SD for me is borderline, if it is universal that quality goes down with the PVR box, forget it.

BTW - Scientific Atlanta has addressed the issue with their PVR. Bascially on non-digital channels they don't display the buffer as the live material. Most PVRs buffer and then display. SA is bypassing the buffer (its recording in the background) for their analog content. This results in a 1-2 sec delay when you hit pause - and then it jumps backward 2 secs to the point where you actually hit pause. Motorolla is experimenting with this as well. The problem is that for live material its fine, but you get the pause delay and then the recorded material looks like crap.

rbkb

08-04-04, 05:44 PM

I just got my $130 bill, and I noticed the following statement on the backside.

"Charter Communications is pleased to announce a new service in digital home entertainment, Charter DVR (Digital Video Recording). Available in September 2004. Charter DVR allows customers to pause and replay live television, record favorite shows movies and TV series. Charter DVR has the capability of recording over 30 hours of programming. You can record one show and watch another, or record two shows at the same time. Customers can access Charter DVR at a price of $9.99 per month. Order yours beginning August 24th. Other service restrictions may apply."

Where's the mention of HD recording??? Maybe they left it off due to the lack of HD transmitted over Charter (j/k)!!!

Also, someone may want to remind Charter that this service is not new to the industry, just Charter!!!

Well, I guess my bill may go up to $140/month...a couple of rate increases, and I may be up to $200!!!!

rcman2

08-04-04, 08:36 PM

When did KSDK add 5-2?

DroptheRemote

08-04-04, 09:12 PM

I had my very first look at VOOM today, while calibrating a Panasonic plasma.

(BTW, anyone interested in plasma displays should put Panasonic at the top of their shopping list -- it's been a while since I've done one of these, but spending time with this one today makes me believe these panels are definitely the leaders of the plasma pack.)

While I didn't have a lot of time to actually watch the different VOOM channels, it was still very impressive to see so much HD in a single program guide. Unfortunately when I'm working, I'm primarily looking at test patterns, but what I did see of VOOM content looked very good and I thought the "look and feel" of the service (program guide, user menus, remote) was excellent.

My client also commented that the OTA antenna that VOOM provides works great. He already had a serious antenna mounted on his rooftop but let the VOOM installer do his thing, even though their antenna didn't inspire a lot of confidence. Turns out he gets near 99% signal strength most of the time on all locals with the VOOM antenna. Of course, that's no guarantee that the VOOM antenna will work in every location.

After finally seeing an HD-TiVo a couple weeks ago and VOOM today, I'm definitely feeling a bad bout of technolust bearing down on me...

Toeside

08-04-04, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote

After finally seeing an HD-TiVo a couple weeks ago and VOOM today, I'm definitely feeling a bad bout of technolust bearing down on me...

Anytime you want to check out another HD TiVo let me know. I'd even consider letting you adjust my CRT RPTV to make it look better. :D

Craig

Robert Simandl

08-04-04, 11:26 PM

And I'll let you check out mine too Doug, since Craig and I are almost in the same neighborhood. Aren't we just the most generous souls you ever met? :D

davesalaman

08-05-04, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by rcman2
When did KSDK add 5-2?

It must have been within the last week or two.

My guess is they are getting ready for the Olympic programming.
Last I read, Olympics HD will be on an 8 hour loop delayed one day.
I suppose they will move NBC's regular programming to 5-2.

BudShark

08-05-04, 01:29 AM

Oh great... multicasting sports HD... brilliant move.

rcman2

08-05-04, 01:42 AM

You're right Dave. I forgot completely about the distinct HD and SD olympic coverage we will get.

DroptheRemote

08-05-04, 09:47 AM

Robert & Craig,

It sounds like both of you guys are from the school of "give until it hurts." ;)

DroptheRemote

08-05-04, 09:52 AM

The good news is that the FCC says limited sharing of TiVo files is OK; the bad news is that the FCC should have any say in this at all.

___________________________________

FCC lets TiVo users share shows

By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

TiVo users will be able to share copies of digital TV shows through the Internet with a small number of friends and family members, the Federal Communications Commission said Wednesday.

The Alviso, Calif.-based company, which sells a popular digital video recorder, had applied for government authorization so its customers could receive digital broadcasts and share them with up to 10 other TiVo units that share the same customer account. TiVo's forthcoming "Digital Output Protection Technology" is designed to prevent the files from being distributed more widely.

The Motion Picture Association of America and the National Football League had lobbied the FCC to say the planned security system did not follow the so-called "broadcast flag" requirements the government adopted last November. TiVo's copy-protection technology was "promising" but does not provide copyright holders with sufficient ability to control how their works are shared, the MPAA told regulators.
___________________________________

The full story can be read here:

http://news.com.com/FCC+lets+TiVo+users+share+shows/2100-1041_3-5296756.html?tag=nl

DroptheRemote

08-05-04, 10:00 AM

The following is from SkyREPORT E-News.

Note the bleating in the last paragraph about the "public interest" commitments of broadcasters.

What this really means is that politicians get bitchy when the networks don't cover their bloodless, stage-managed political conventions. As far as I'm concerned, a "Fear Factor" marathon instead of an evening of political convention coverage IS a public service.

And for the record, I loathe "Fear Factor" and all the other reality pap.

_______________________________

FCC Moves DTV Transition Ahead

During its meeting Wednesday, the Federal Communications Commission adopted an order that implements several steps that aim to push ahead the conversion of the nation's TV broadcasters from analog technology to digital TV.

Among the rules adopted by the commission are mandates that establish deadlines for digital stations to increase power levels to serve additional viewers or lose interference protection to unserved areas. The new regulations also require broadcasters to include information in digital signals for closed captioning, v-chip, channel numbering and other functionality. They also establish a staggered channel election process to arrive at a final channel assignment for broadcasters.

Said FCC Chairman Michael Powell, "The results of our collective efforts are finally coming to bear. Broadcasters continue to build-out their over-the-air digital facilities, cable and satellite operators are carrying more digital and high-definition programming than ever before, broadcasters and cable programmers are producing more high-definition programming and introducing new channels every day, set manufacturers are churning out more digital and high-definition television sets ... and set prices are dropping dramatically."

Democratic Commissioner Michael Copps voted for the digital TV rules, but took issue with the lack of public interest obligations for DTV broadcasters in the mandates. "If the American people are to realize the full benefits of DTV, we have to call the public interest issues forward and accord them the high priority they deserve," he said.

_______________________________

Toeside

08-05-04, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Robert & Craig,

It sounds like both of you guys are from the school of "give until it hurts." ;)

I'd actually love to hire you to come out, but it simply isn't in the budget. My stop gap was spending $16 on the Avia disk and adjusting everything myself.

The budget would be better had I not Given U.E. $$ until it hurt so I could get the HD TiVo. :)

Craig

DroptheRemote

08-05-04, 10:34 AM

Craig,

I do understand your situation completely. You're definitely not alone.

But it might be a good idea to put me on your speed dial now, so that when you win the lottery you'll be able to get me there in a flash... :D

Robert Simandl

08-05-04, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Toeside
I'd actually love to hire you to come out, but it simply isn't in the budget. My stop gap was spending $16 on the Avia disk and adjusting everything myself.

The budget would be better had I not Given U.E. $$ until it hurt so I could get the HD TiVo. :)

Craig

Yeah.... what Craig said!

But about the conventions... on the last night when Kerry gave his acceptance speech, I had some friends over, we fired up HDnet, and gave him our own Mystery Science Theater treatment. We had a blast, and expect to have a Grand Old time giving Bush the same thing in a few weeks.

So political conventions do still have their uses...

gillajo

08-05-04, 03:54 PM

Does anyone know why KSDK is broadcasting 2 channels (5-1 & 5-2)? I would assume it is due to the Olympics, but I am wondering if anyone has any information. It would be great if they were broadcasting different events on the 2 channels.

GlendaleHDTV

08-05-04, 04:09 PM

Like everybody else, I'm getting a little frustrated over all things Charter (no PVR, no ABC). I'd like to switch, but I just can't justify it. The only channels my family watches are HDNet, HBO, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, ESPN (all), Fox Sports Midwest, Fox Sports World, HGTV, TLC, Nick, and Cartoon network. To get the package that includes all this on Charter is $69.98 (62.99 + 3.99 HD + 3.00 HD tier).

To get a package that includes that on D*, I believe I'd have to pay about $8 more per month (38.99 + 10.99 HD +12 sports + 11 HBO + 4.95 for second SD receiver = $77.93) + pay $300 - $350 up front for the equipment.

Add to this the $1,000 price tag on the HD-Tivo vs. the $9.99/month on the Moxi (assuming it ever shows up) and I just can't see spending the extra dough for basically ABC-HD (and Discovery I guess).

Toeside

08-05-04, 05:08 PM

Glendale, equipment is free, DirecTiVos are $20 each up to 2 right now, so the $300-350 for equipment isn't right, unless you are talking HD equipment.

But yeah, the HD TiVo is $1000, unfortunately. But, if you get one, you don't need to spend the $300-350 for a non DVR HD receiver.

Craig

GlendaleHDTV

08-05-04, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Toeside
Glendale, equipment is free, DirecTiVos are $20 each up to 2 right now, so the $300-350 for equipment isn't right, unless you are talking HD equipment.

But yeah, the HD TiVo is $1000, unfortunately. But, if you get one, you don't need to spend the $300-350 for a non DVR HD receiver.

Craig

I am talking HD equipment, but I didn't consider that the HD-Tivo was only $650. Where do I sign up!!?;)

Toeside

08-05-04, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
I am talking HD equipment, but I didn't consider that the HD-Tivo was only $650. Where do I sign up!!?;)

:D

Every time I'm reminded that I spent $1000 on the HD TiVo, I wonder if my priorities are straight. I'm sure they aren't, actually. UGH.

But, there's no way I'm selling it, because there's no way I'll ever be able to spend $1000 on a single home entertainment item again.

Craig

abcward

08-05-04, 05:35 PM

I am one of the Charter 'slaves' at this moment but hopefully soon I can free myself from their grasp and move back to satellite. I get the feeling that everyone seems to view DirecTV as the better option over Dishnet. Can someone explain this to me?

I want to make the most educated decision when I kick Charter to the curb.

Thanks
Bruce

GlendaleHDTV

08-05-04, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by abcward
I am one of the Charter 'slaves' at this moment but hopefully soon I can free myself from their grasp and move back to satellite. I get the feeling that everyone seems to view DirecTV as the better option over Dishnet. Can someone explain this to me?

I want to make the most educated decision when I kick Charter to the curb.

Thanks
Bruce

I'd like to hear some thoughts as well as I just realized Dishnet can be had for around $67 per month and the only channel I'd really be losing that I watch is Fox Sports World!

--Tyler

Mr_Bester

08-05-04, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
I'd like to hear some thoughts as well as I just realized Dishnet can be had for around $67 per month and the only channel I'd really be losing that I watch is Fox Sports World!

--Tyler

If you didn't mind losing Fox Sports World, You could drop the sports package on D* and save $10-12

I currently have Total Choice+ 42.99 HD Tier 9.99 HBO 12.00 and 3 receivers.
My total is $73.00 and I get the ALL locals in HD(except UPN which isn't HD yet)

You'd be able to drop 4.99 if you only have the 2 receivers, or better yet, if you got a SD Tivo, You could pump 1 tuner to 1 room and the other to another room without the mirror fee if I'm not mistaken.
Dug

GlendaleHDTV

08-05-04, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Bester
If you didn't mind losing Fox Sports World, You could drop the sports package on D* and save $10-12

I currently have Total Choice+ 42.99 HD Tier 9.99 HBO 12.00 and 3 receivers.
My total is $73.00 and I get the ALL locals in HD(except UPN which isn't HD yet)

You'd be able to drop 4.99 if you only have the 2 receivers, or better yet, if you got a SD Tivo, You could pump 1 tuner to 1 room and the other to another room without the mirror fee if I'm not mistaken.
Dug

I can live without Fox Sports World, but not Fox Sports Midwest. To get that on DirectTV, you have to get the Sports package, but I believe its included in the Dishnet top 120.

--Tyler

RaceTripper

08-05-04, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
I can live without Fox Sports World, but not Fox Sports Midwest. To get that on DirectTV, you have to get the Sports package, but I believe its included in the Dishnet top 120.

--Tyler

That is not correct.

I've never had the sports package in 6 years of D*, but have always had Fox Sports MW. It's part of the Total Choice package and may even be included in the cheaper standard package.

Dean

Toeside

08-05-04, 07:02 PM

I HATE dishnetwork. I had it for a year, their hardware was crap. I got rid of it, switched to DirecTV and haven't looked back.

Other than the hardware, I didn't have a problem with it.

Craig

DroptheRemote

08-05-04, 07:27 PM

* Dean is correct.

You don't need to take the expanded sports package to get Fox Sports Midwest on DirecTV. It is part of the Total Choice package.

* I'm not by any means totally sold on Voom, partly because it's owned by Cablevision, partly because a lot of their own programming is limited and partly because I think they'll have an uphill battle fighting off DISH, DirecTV and the local cable competition over the long haul.

But one thing that seems clear and that's that VOOM has demonstrated a commitment to HD. When new stuff comes out from other HD programmers, VOOM is likely to be there at the head of the line, instead of the current DISH, DirecTV and Charter scenarios, where they all sit around and wait to see who's going to blink first.

Robert Simandl

08-05-04, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Bester

You'd be able to drop 4.99 if you only have the 2 receivers, or better yet, if you got a SD Tivo, You could pump 1 tuner to 1 room and the other to another room without the mirror fee if I'm not mistaken.
Dug

If you're talking about the two tuners built into the Tivo, it doesn't have outputs for both tuners at once. There's only one tuner being output at a time. You can RECORD two channels at the same time, but you can't WATCH them both at the same time, even on separate TV's.

GlendaleHDTV

08-05-04, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by dwette
That is not correct.

I've never had the sports package in 6 years of D*, but have always had Fox Sports MW. It's part of the Total Choice package and may even be included in the cheaper standard package.

Dean

Thanks for straightening me out, I missed that on the website since its not listed in the channel lineup (it mentions a 'regional sports network' in the introductory verbage). I'm going to have to seriously consider making the change.

turls

08-05-04, 11:51 PM

I've made this comment in other threads, it bears repeating.

No HDNet on VOOM. This is a HUGE ommission. With a HD PVR (something else VOOM won't have until who knows when), HDNet is gold. HDNet is worth more to me than all of the "exclusive" HD content VOOM has combined.

If they don't have HDNet, guaranteed they will miss others in the future.

The only "full-time" relevant HD programming DirecTV doesn't have is InHD, and it isn't on any satellite system.

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
But one thing that seems clear and that's that VOOM has demonstrated a commitment to HD. When new stuff comes out from other HD programmers, VOOM is likely to be there at the head of the line, instead of the current DISH, DirecTV and Charter scenarios, where they all sit around and wait to see who's going to blink first.

turls

08-05-04, 11:55 PM

Doug beat me to the punch on posting the FCC article about station power, I hope now that UPN 46 realized that UPN really does provide programming in HD (the engineer that posted didn't even mention the movies that Paramount/UPN is syndicating that they could be broadcasting that nobody else in this market has picked up), they also see the writing on the wall that they aren't going to be able to get away with the weak power much longer.

I mean, the analog UPN 46 feed is pathetic, even on DirecTV with all the ghosting. I don't even think they bothered to do MTS stereo.

I've come to the conclusion if I can get a station in analog but not ATSC, the station isn't even close to trying hard enough, because ATSC sure seems to radiate better with less power than analog anyway.

4113

08-06-04, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
I had a message on my box last night from Charter that said something like "You may experience some Video on Demand outages on August 3rd and 4th due to a system upgrade". I'm assuming this is the system upgrade that has been blamed for the delay in the PVR devices. If so, maybe they can start deployment next week.:rolleyes:

--Tyler

The On Demand upgrade is completely unrelated to the PVR issue.

DroptheRemote

08-06-04, 09:12 AM

turls,

Thanks for pointing out the lack of HDNet on VOOM. I definitely overlooked that in my brief look at the VOOM HD lineup and agree that it's a major omission.

On the other hand, I can't really think of anything on HDNet that I would consider "must see" programming. Of course, I might have a slightly different view of that if I had an HD TiVo, as there are HDNet programs that I would time-shift, but honestly there's nothing there for me that I have to make a point of seeing every week. At the moment, I probably have a slight preference for HDNet Movies, which likewise is not part of the VOOM line-up.

The lack of an HD-PVR is also a major shortcoming for VOOM but I assume that this will be addressed shortly, though probably not before Charter comes to market.

The other nod I would give to VOOM is the fact that they're set up to use Windows Media codecs, not so much because I'm in love with Microsoft technology, but rather the fact that I think that puts them in a better positioned to handle more programming over the long haul, which should translate to more HD programming. For the record, they're still using the same compression technology (MPEG-2) as DISH and DirecTV, but all of the boxes sold so far are ready to make the switch to WM compression whenever the need is there.

Still, the biggest factor that would hold me back from making a switch to VOOM is whether it's going to be a viable business with a long-term future. As I've demonstrated numerous times my crystal ball gets wildly variable reception, but it seems like the best-case end-game for VOOM is to be purchased either by DISH or DirecTV. I just don't see them gaining enough sat market share to become a long-term player.

DroptheRemote

08-06-04, 09:20 AM

The following is a SkyREPORT E-News story excerpt based on an interview with Richard DalBello, president of the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association:
______________________

According to the American Customer Satisfaction Index, approximately 71.5 percent of satellite television consumers are satisfied with their products and services. By comparison, the nation's largest cable company had a customer satisfaction rate of only 55 percent - the same satisfaction numbers the IRS gets.
______________________

The full story can be found here:

http://www.skyreport.com/#Story5

turls

08-06-04, 10:20 AM

Just my personal opinion on some "must see/DVR" from HDNet, and this isn't counting exclusive special events like the Reagan funeral and political conventions (who knows what else in the future HDNet will be the only network that bothers to step up to the plate and broadcast in HD).

Nothing but Trailers
HDNet World Report
Test Patterns

And of course, HDNet movies covers a niche none of the other HD pay movie services cover.

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
On the other hand, I can't really think of anything on HDNet that I would consider "must see" programming.

Toeside

08-06-04, 11:10 AM

FYI,

DirecTV just started a promotion for the HD Package.

Commit to 1 year of HD programming, and the first 6 months are free!

I just added it to my account.

Craig

tommeyj

08-06-04, 12:33 PM

As VOOM's channel lineup is now I don't think many people will change from cable or Directv to them. As a supplement to a HDTV system, I think it great. No up front cost, just box rentel and programing. If they go under, so be it. I think HDNET did a better job of MLB than ESPN. They would give you a shot of the pitcher, first basemen and batter and catcher at the same time. More like being at the game. Just my thoughts.

abcward

08-06-04, 12:42 PM

HDNet also did better NHL games in my opinion for the same reason: a wider view of the ice than the ESPN coverage. They also show some MLS games and various college basketball/football games too.

DroptheRemote

08-06-04, 03:18 PM

I just want to reiterate that I'm not in any way anti-HDNet.

In fact, I think anyone who enjoys HD and the growing volume of programming should be thanking Mark Cuban, first and foremost. He brought HDNet onto the scene during a critical part of the HD rollout and the shot of momentum he provided would be hard to exaggerate.

But still, I really don't find any of the HDNet programming to be compelling. Interesting yes, and definitely a key component in the HD surfing round robin, but it's miles away from being appointment TV.

Probably the best thing I've seen on HDNet are the BMW shorts, the trailers show and occasional episodes of Higher Definition. And yes, I sometimes check out the Bikini Destination and Get Out! eye candy.

HDNet also does quite a bit of music, but there's rarely anything that I find very interesting. I absolutely positively believe that there's tremendous potential for HD music videos and HD live music, especially as a way of exposing up and coming talent.

Maybe it's me. I'd say that my tastes are pretty broad, but the bands on True Music rarely leave me wanting more.

Where's the John Peel of the independent US music scene?

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/alt/johnpeel/index.shtml)

In fact, Mark Cuban and John Peel would probably get on like gangbusters...

Robert Simandl

08-06-04, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by turls
I mean, the analog UPN 46 feed is pathetic, even on DirecTV with all the ghosting. I don't even think they bothered to do MTS stereo.

Hey turls,

They didn't. WRBU until very recently was WHSL, which broadcast the Home Shopping Network. No stereo ever needed for that. They dumped Home Shopping and switched to UPN barely over a year ago IIRC. If I were WRBU, I probably wouldn't bother upgrading the analog broadcast to MTS stereo right now, either.

But dammit, I'd love to see Enterprise in HD.

Robert Simandl

08-06-04, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
turls,

Thanks for pointing out the lack of HDNet on VOOM. I definitely overlooked that in my brief look at the VOOM HD lineup and agree that it's a major omission.

On the other hand, I can't really think of anything on HDNet that I would consider "must see" programming. Of course, I might have a slightly different view of that if I had an HD TiVo, as there are HDNet programs that I would time-shift, but honestly there's nothing there for me that I have to make a point of seeing every week. At the moment, I probably have a slight preference for HDNet Movies, which likewise is not part of the VOOM line-up.

Hey Doug,

HDnet and the HD PVR are a hit and miss. There is a well-documented issue between this channel and the HD Tivo. About 25% of the programming on HDnet loses its audio -- just plain drops SILENT -- about one third to one half way through the show. If you're watching live, you can curse a few times, switch to another channel, switch back, and you're okay. But it happens during recording, not playback, so if a recorded show does this, you're screwed. It's only on HDnet, no other channels (not even HDnet Movies). All parties are aware of the problem and are supposedly working on a firmware fix.

And about Voom using Windows Media compression in the future....

(smartass mode ON)

I've always wanted to see a 65" HD blue screen of death. :D:D:D

(smartass mode OFF)

Oh, and everybody, I read in the HD Programming Forum that Fox HD will begin on DirecTV in September. Since local KTVI is an O&O, we'll be eligible for Fox HD (WNYW from New York).

DirecTV also announced recently they've secured rights to carry NBC in HD in O&O markets. But since KSDK isn't O&O, that doesn't do us a whole lot of good.

What I'd personally like to see on DirecTV is HD superstations. Maybe THEN we could get Enterprise in HD.

BudShark

08-06-04, 09:05 PM

Anyone using an HTL-HD in STL? Opinions?

Chris

Robert Simandl

08-06-04, 09:35 PM

Hey Chris,

I used an HTL-HD in my main room for a few months before I finally got the HD Tivo. Out of the box it's pretty good, much better than the old Sony HD100 I was using before that, at least as far as features.

I love the Advanced Program Guide that lists the OTA channels as well as the DirecTV channels (the HD100 showed simply "local programming" for all OTA channels). Even though there's so much more info in the guide, it still loads and changes pages faster than the HD100. And no more spontaneous reboots every couple of days from that HD100 memory leak.

Downsides out of the box, about twice an hour there is an audio dropout for a second or so. Also, the program guide defaults to ALL channels even if you left it on CUSTOM. And the picture quality seemed not quite as smooth as the HD100.

The current firmware upgrade fixed all three of the above issues.

Even though I've replaced it with an HD Tivo in the main family room, I still use the HTL-HD's simultaneous 480i output to feed my several-years-old ReplayTV. I get *awesome* DVD-R's this way (and from HD channels they're even in true 16x9). Just got done watching the DVD-R I made of the recent Gloria Estefan concert on HDnet. It looks and sounds fabulous!

HTL-HD rating on the Blob-O-Vision scale, out of five stars: *****

At $299 at Ultimate Electronics, it's an absolute steal.

BTW, the fact that we're sitting here posting on an internet forum on Friday night is proof we're in serious need of a life!

Robert Simandl

08-06-04, 09:40 PM

Deleted double post.

BudShark

08-06-04, 10:16 PM

I hate to admit it, but even at 30, a quiet Friday night after a week of work is about the best I can ask for!

Thanks - you confirmed what I had seen on the forums. There are some nice features in the Sony branded HTL-HD - but at 500-550 its not worth it (I'd buy a HDTivo if I was willing to go that high). But UE said I could get the 3 rooms free, and get $50 back for each standard def I turn in for an HD box or Tivo... so its $299 out the door with the HTL-HD, a 40GB Tivo, and a standard def box for the kitchen...

Thanks again - and enjoy your Friday at home :) I think I'm going to go geek it further and play some Unreal online.

Chris

Mr_Bester

08-08-04, 11:31 AM

bump,
I hate going to the third page to see if we have something new.:)

Toeside

08-08-04, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by BudShark
I hate to admit it, but even at 30, a quiet Friday night after a week of work is about the best I can ask for!

So I guess everyone went out on Saturday night. Nothing new but the *bump* post.

:)

I stayed home...with the kids. No Saturday night partying for me.

:)

Robert Simandl

08-08-04, 07:26 PM

Saturday night I had, well, I think it's called a "date." Been a while since I had one of those....

Saw the new Tom Cruise flick "Collateral." It's great. Cruise surprsingly makes an excellent bad guy.

Just to stay on topic, I can't wait for this to play in HD....

BudShark

08-08-04, 08:07 PM

I'm working to figure out how to get one of the existing 150-250 credit for HD customers on D*... even though I don't have them yet. I want a HDTivo - but I want the extra discount... I know ... I'm picky.

Toeside

08-08-04, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Saturday night I had, well, I think it's called a "date." Been a while since I had one of those....

Saw the new Tom Cruise flick "Collateral." It's great. Cruise surprsingly makes an excellent bad guy.

Just to stay on topic, I can't wait for this to play in HD....

That's kinda funny. I hope the "date" went well. Us married guys have to live vicariously through the single guys. :p

I want to see Collateral. I'm in Plano, TX until Wed. night. Maybe I'll head to the movie theatre Mon or Tues evening.

Craig

dweebe

08-09-04, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Saw the new Tom Cruise flick "Collateral." It's great. Cruise surprsingly makes an excellent bad guy.

Just to stay on topic, I can't wait for this to play in HD....

Off topis for St. Louis HD but interesting.

I saw a piece on TV somewhere last week where the director (Michael Mann) used a type HD camera that was brand new. Supposedly it picked up colors better in extremely low light than any film could do. I wonder if he'll do a direct digital to digital transfer for DVD (and eventually HD-DVD) or will do digital-film-digital.

abcward

08-09-04, 03:15 PM

I see that NFL Network will be showing preseason games starting this Friday. Couple questions:

1) Are any of these broadcasts in HD?

2) Do blackouts apply? Example- This week's Rams/Bears, I believe that channel 11 is showing it as well. Does that mean that NFL Network will be blacked out in STL?

Thanks

Bruce

bluedevil23

08-09-04, 04:26 PM

I got my monthly bill from Charter today and it stated that they would have DVR service starting in September 2004 and they would be taking orders starting August 24th.

BudShark

08-09-04, 05:14 PM

Yeah - that worries me. I guess its good they've publicly stated it, but as 4113 has lectured many times, September means up to and including Sept. 30, 2004. So that puts Charter at anywhere from 30-60 days away from launching PVR service...

Grrrr... that means there is no way I can try Charter's PVR before I move. Further strengthens my position to go with D*

Chris

Robert Simandl

08-09-04, 08:15 PM

Okay, so how come ABC flashed the HD logo at the start of Redskins/Broncos, but we're getting an upconvert?????

DroptheRemote

08-09-04, 08:19 PM

FYI -- MarketClose News reports the following earlier today:

____________________________

Charter reported second quarter revenues were $1.239 billion, an increase of $71 million when compared to second quarter 2003 revenues of $1.168 billion, and the net loss applicable to common stock for the three-month period was $416 million. The MSO said it lost 58,800 analog video customers during the quarter, taking its total to 6.133 million.
____________________________

dweebe

08-09-04, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Okay, so how come ABC flashed the HD logo at the start of Redskins/Broncos, but we're getting an upconvert?????

The game thred on the main HDTV page has numerous HD reports along with "It's not HD here" statements.

wmschultz

08-09-04, 08:26 PM

Where is the number to Channel 30??? I can't find the phone number to actually get a hold of someone...THEY HAVE NO NEWS DEPARTMENT!!

Robert Simandl

08-09-04, 08:41 PM

Only number I can find is 314-436-3030, which is nothing but a recording saying office hours are over, please leave a message. I did, but I don't expect anyone to actually hear it til tomorrow morning.

dweebe

08-09-04, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by wmschultz
Where is the number to Channel 30??? I can't find the phone number to actually get a hold of someone...THEY HAVE NO NEWS DEPARTMENT!!
No they don't. More Sinclair cheapness.

usersrdum

08-09-04, 08:47 PM

They finally flipped the switch 45 min. into the game!!!

Robert Simandl

08-09-04, 08:48 PM

Whoa!!!! Somebody at KDNL finally flipped the switch! Not only is the picture HD, but the surrounds suddenly sprung to life! If you're monitoring the thread, Thanks Jim!

Or could it be somebody was actually there to play back the message I left on their machine 5 minutes ago?

wmschultz

08-09-04, 08:49 PM

Okay, I get the PROPS!!!...

I called KDNL at 314-436-3030 and got into their voice mail system by choosing hidden option 1...

I wrote down every person's extension and called 2 of them, the first
was Jim Wright, but he isn't in....Hey Jim, I have your pager number now!!

The second was John Wright.

He said, that the game isn't in HD. I said, yes it is, all across the Country just not here in St. Louis...He said okay, we'll check. About 2 minutes later, they flipped the switch...

I love me..

BudShark

08-10-04, 09:00 AM

Maybe you and you should go get a hotel room :)

I didn't get anything because Charter doesn't have ABC and we have no antenna in the apartment... 3 1/2 more weeks...

DroptheRemote

08-10-04, 09:30 AM

Excerpts from the Wall Street Journal Story on Charter Communications Quarterly Results:

______________________________

* Charter Communications Inc. reported higher-than-expected subscriber losses for the second quarter...

* Charter, the nation's third-largest cable operator, reported that it lost 58,800 subscribers in the second quarter, putting its total at 6.1 million. Like most other cable companies, Charter has been hurt by aggressive competition from satellite television operators that typically offer more digital channels for less money. Charter executives said they were fighting back partly by spending on new services like digital-video recorders and high-definition television...

* St. Louis-based Charter, which is controlled by Microsoft Corp. co-founder Paul Allen, reported a wider second-quarter loss of $415 million, or $1.39 a share, compared with a loss of $37 million or 13 cents a share, a year earlier. Revenue grew to $1.24 billion compared with $1.17 billion in the 2003 period, adjusted to reflect the sale of cable systems.

Charter management has been distracted for close to two years by investigations and shareholder lawsuits over alleged improprieties over the way the company accounted for subscribers and capital expenses. The company recently reported a settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission and a $144 million deal to settle 18 class-action and derivatives lawsuits. The second quarter included an $85 million charge related to that deal with plaintiffs...
______________________________

The full story (requires paid subscription) can be found here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109205777699686372,00.html?mod=todays_us_marketplace

duihlein

08-10-04, 09:39 AM

Apparently both Dish and D* will be carrying HD Olympic coverage. Apparently Dish is upping their data rate to 22MB's. It should be interesting to see how the image quality compares with OTA (assuming KSDK will use both HD and SD sub-channels)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432292

Originally posted by bgall
Tonight on the Dish Tech Forum. They said the NBC olympics would be broadcast at a bulked up rate of 22 Mbps and since The HD feed is on its own transponder I would say that's true. So the olympics on Dish should be pretty sweet

It will be a nice way to test out my new 811.

Dave

wmschultz

08-10-04, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by BudShark
Maybe you and you should go get a hotel room :)

LOL :D

DroptheRemote

08-10-04, 12:57 PM

Reported earlier today on the HDTV Programming forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432654

DroptheRemote

08-10-04, 01:01 PM

This was reported yesterday on AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432292

Note there's no word on whether this will hold true for NBC on DirecTV, but as the HDTV Programming forum moderator points out, these sorts of "rules" are generally applied in a "level playing field" manner, so it's likely that NBC HD will be available in St Louis via DirecTV during the Olympics.

abcward

08-10-04, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
This was reported yesterday on AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432292

Note there's no word on whether this will hold true for NBC on DirecTV, but as the HDTV Programming forum moderator points out, these sorts of "rules" are generally applied in a "level playing field" manner, so it's likely that NBC HD will be available in St Louis via DirecTV during the Olympics.

So I am guessing that Charter WONT have it?

I wish I could get my wife to give up the whole VOD thing so we could switch. It's driving me crazy that we're slaves to the evil Charter corporation....

cagmo

08-10-04, 01:47 PM

I purchased an HDTV (no HD tuner) earlier this year. I have been doing the Charter thing since then, but am frustrated (as I know others are) with the lack of HD programming, especially ABC.

I'm trying to look around at my options here with football season approaching, and I guess I'm confused and wanted some help from the experts.

I don't need movie channels. I only need HD on one TV, but I need a 4 room package. I want as much HD programming as I can get, especially on local channels that I don't currently get.

My Charter deal is $52.99 + $3.00 (local HD) + $3.99 (ESPN/HDNet)= $59.98 plus taxes/fees.

What are my best Direct TV or Dish Network options? I've searched, but I find all of the offers out there confusing.

Thanks.

DroptheRemote

08-10-04, 02:24 PM

cagmo,

I think your best bet is DirecTV, because the football is a priority.

The NFL Sunday Ticket is supposed to carry 100 regular season games in HD, and now that both FOX and CBS have both committed to a slate of Sunday games in HD, the Sunday Ticket will have quite a lot to choose from.

If you go with DirecTV, you would need to select the Total Choice (130 channels, no locals @ $36.99) or Total Choice Plus (150 channels, no locals @ $39.99). Standard-definition locals could be added to either package for another $3.00 per month.

Here's a link to compare the specifics of each TC package:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/Packages_Comparison.dsp

You'd also need to subscribe to the HD package, at $10.99 per month, and this currently includes HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN-HD, and Discovery HD Theater.

Note that both HBO and Showtime have HD channels that provide non-movie programming ("Sopranos" "Dead Like Me" etc) but these require subscription to the invididual HBO and Showtime packages at a cost of $12 for one or $23 for both.

DirecTV has announced plans to add the network FOX HD feed (available to STL subscribers), the NBC HD feed (not available to STL subscribers) and Bravo HD (which may ultimately end up being some combination of Bravo and the HD content of other NBC-owned programmers, such as Sci-Fi).

Presumably these additions will form part of the existing HD package, but there's no official word from DirecTV and it's possible that there could be an additional charge. We should know more soon.

Apart from FOX-HD via DirecTV, the remaining HD locals would need to be acquired by mounting an outdoor or attic antenna, or seeing if you get acceptable reception with an indoor antenna. There's plenty of information and expertise available here if you end up going down that road.

Based on the rack rates on the DirecTV site, your cheapest route to DirecTV HD would be Total Choice without locals ($36.99), plus the HD package ($10.99) for a cost of $47.98.

Of course, if anyone here knows a better approach, or more relevant, any special introductory offers, please chime in. For example, the HD package can be purchased now and in return for a 1-year commitment, you get the HD package free for 6 months. But there are lots of other introductory offers available through various DirecTV resellers, such as Ultimate Electronics, etc.

Sunday Ticket is $219 for the season, and you can spread the payments out over 4 months.

oby

08-10-04, 02:26 PM

Charter is losing subs, and they will lose more and more subs if they don't do something to keep up with satellite. I would get Direct TV in an instant if I could see the satellite. I'm surrounded by trees here in Kirkwood.

davesalaman

08-10-04, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Not only is the picture HD, but the surrounds suddenly sprung to life!

Did that actually come down DD 5:1 ?
I only saw DD 2:0

My set has a setting to switch between PCM and DD output but I've yet to see DD 5:1 out of it.

John Kotches

08-10-04, 03:08 PM

Dave:

Many receivers and preamp/processors will apply Dolby ProLogic/ProLogic II/ProLogic IIx when presented with a DD 2.0 stream.

Cheers,

turls

08-10-04, 03:10 PM

Where is the 25% coming from? My experience is much lower--maybe 5-10%, inexcusable, but I've got the next 6 months free HD package so I'll complain again after that if it isn't fixed.

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
About 25% of the programming on HDnet loses its audio -- just plain drops SILENT -- about one third to one half way through the show. If you're watching live, you can curse a few times, switch to another channel, switch back, and you're okay. But it happens during recording, not playback, so if a recorded show does this, you're screwed. It's only on HDnet, no other channels (not even HDnet Movies). All parties are aware of the problem and are supposedly working on a firmware fix.

turls

08-10-04, 03:16 PM

You might be missing the point here. I didn't see the game, but it should have been in DD5.1. KDNL-DT is working on getting DD passthru, but I don't think they have it done yet. I think most of us here were hoping it would happen before football season.

I guess I may have to fool with pointing my antenna towards Springfield, IL again this year . . .

Originally posted by John Kotches
Many receivers and preamp/processors will apply Dolby ProLogic/ProLogic II/ProLogic IIx when presented with a DD 2.0 stream.

turls

08-10-04, 03:18 PM

So do I need to request a fresh waiver from DirecTV to be able to get the Olympic coverage in HD, just in case, or is the Olympics coverage seperate from normal waivers?

Assuming we get it at all on D*.

GlendaleHDTV

08-10-04, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by abcward
So I am guessing that Charter WONT have it?

I wish I could get my wife to give up the whole VOD thing so we could switch. It's driving me crazy that we're slaves to the evil Charter corporation....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the NBC HD feed going to be on the normal Charter NBC-HD channel (785)? Since NBC is broadcasting separate HD and SD Olympic schedules (with the HD being time delayed) I just assumed the SD would be on the analog channel and the HD on the normal HD channel. I thought this DirecTV announcement was mainly a benefit to those subscribers who couldn't get NBC-OTA.

--Tyler

DroptheRemote

08-10-04, 05:54 PM

Matt,

The way I read between the lines on the AVS postings, the various NBC affilliates are working with DISH (and presumably DirecTV) so that they can ignore all the waiver requests they would otherwise have to process for the Olympics. They'll proactively let the dish guys make the NBC network HD feed available in their market only during the Olympics. Obviously not all markets are on board with this approach, but there are quite few that are, including St. Louis, according to the AVS listing.

Bruce,

I think Tyler's explanation on the Charter situation is correct.

Robert Simandl

08-10-04, 08:56 PM

Re: KDNL-DT and the surrounds.

KDNL still uses two-channel Dolby Digital even on genuine HD programming, so in theory there shouldn't have been much difference in the sound between the HD feed and the SD upconvert on the MNF game last night. Especially considering my receiver kicks in Dolby Pro Logic II automatically on two-channel programming.

But there was a huge difference. I'm guessing the HD feed, even though it was two channel, had MUCH better separation between the two channels than the SD feed. And that gave the Pro Logic chip much more to work with as far as cranking out surround information.

Just my guess...

Robert Simandl

08-10-04, 09:00 PM

RE: HDnet dropouts on the HD Tivo.

Originally posted by turls
Where is the 25% coming from? My experience is much lower--maybe 5-10%, inexcusable, but I've got the next 6 months free HD package so I'll complain again after that if it isn't fixed.

The 25% is just my personal experience. Several Odyssey 5 episodes and Senator Kerry's acceptance speech immediately come to mind. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

dweebe

08-10-04, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Re: KDNL-DT and the surrounds.

KDNL still uses two-channel Dolby Digital even on genuine HD programming, so in theory there shouldn't have been much difference in the sound between the HD feed and the SD upconvert on the MNF game last night. Especially considering my receiver kicks in Dolby Pro Logic II automatically on two-channel programming.

But there was a huge difference. I'm guessing the HD feed, even though it was two channel, had MUCH better separation between the two channels than the SD feed. And that gave the Pro Logic chip much more to work with as far as cranking out surround information.

Just my guess...
I guess we're lucky to get HD from KDNL and that 5.1 sound in long off.

Will be interesting to see what the 5.1 sound will be like from Fox and KTVI. Their previous mixes for football and baseball playoffs seem to have too much going on in the surrounds (at least for my taste).

DroptheRemote

08-11-04, 07:38 AM

The following is from SkyREPORT E-News:

___________________________

DISH Adds Subs in 2Q, Company Buying Back Stock

EchoStar said its DISH Network satellite TV service added about 340,000 net new subscribers during the second quarter, taking its customer total to 10.125 million as of June 30.

The company also announced that its board of directors authorized the repurchase of up to an additional $1 billion of EchoStar Class A common stock. EchoStar said it may make repurchases of its common stock through open market purchases or privately negotiated transactions subject to market conditions and other factors. The move is separate from the stock repurchase EchoStar announced in November 2003.

During a conference call Wednesday, EchoStar CEO Charles Ergen commented on DirecTV's record second quarter subscriber additions, in which the DBS competitor netted 445,000 customers, saying the numbers were "pretty incredible." He added that "DirecTV is doing a good job," but he also said the satellite TV business "has good momentum in the marketplace" and continues to take customers away from cable.

Ergen also commented on the recent settlement between DirecTV, the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative and Pegasus, in which DirecTV will acquire NRTC and Pegasus satellite TV customers in rural areas. The EchoStar CEO said his company cannot count on gaining the large number of subscribers in rural areas once served by NRTC and Pegasus that DISH Network had acquired during the past few years.

However, Ergen said the DirecTV/NRTC/Pegasus settlement "cannot be good for cable, now that you have two companies coming after their subscribers."

For the three-month period that ended June 30, EchoStar reported total revenue of $1.78 billion, a 26 percent increase when compared to $1.41 billion for the same period in 2003. Net income was $85 million for the quarter, compared to net income of $129 million during the corresponding period in 2003.
___________________________

wilkemp

08-11-04, 08:48 AM

The message light was lit up on the Charter box this morning and according to the message Charter will be broadcasting the Olympics in HD on 785, we will see on the Friday the 13th, what a day to start the Olympics! Extra security needed for sure.

GlendaleHDTV

08-11-04, 09:16 AM

For those who haven't been following the Olympic programming thread on the programming forum, the HD feed is totally separate, and delayed from the SD feed. So Friday night, for those wanting to see the opening ceremonies in HD, the HD broadcast is 1 hour behind the SD broadcast (SD starts at 7:00, the HD broadcast starts at 8:00).

The rest of the HD broadcasts are delayed I believe up to 24 hours.

DroptheRemote

08-11-04, 09:20 AM

Apologies if this has already been posted here (I checked but didn't see it). Here's a link to NBC's online schedule for Olympic Games coverage:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/tvlistings/5022016/detail.html

DroptheRemote

08-11-04, 09:39 AM

Forbes is reporting on new HDTV products to be released by Sony:
_______________________________

Sony Unveils HD PVRs, More HDTVs
By Greg Tarr, 08.10.04, 2:46 PM ET

RANCHO BERNARDO, CALIF. - Sony will introduce this fall the first CableCARD-enabled HDTV cable decoder boxes with built-in hard-drive recorders, and ATSC tuning.

The set-top boxes, which Sony showed to select members of the press visiting its new sales and marketing headquarters here, will be available in two models, differing only by hard-drive capacity. The DHG-HDD250 ($799 suggested retail) will carry a single 250GB hard drive, while the DHG-HDD500 ($999) will add a second 250GB hard drive for a total of 500GBs recording capacity.

The two units will be capable of storing up to 20 hours or 60 hours of high-definition programming at one time, respectively. Users will program recorders via the latest iteration of TV Guide's subscription-free electronic programming guide, including HDTV program indicators on the grid.

Both set-top boxes will include HD component video and HDMI with HDCP video outputs, but lack IEEE-1394 connectivity. The boxes will include selectable resolution output for use with a wide variety of television displays.

Greg Gudorf, Sony Home Products Group television marketing VP, said the company will position the products primarily for retail distribution, although it will also entertain discussions with cable operators interested in carrying the devices.
______________________________

The complete story can be found here:

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/general/2004/08/10/generalcahners_2004_08_10_eng-cahners_eng-cahners_091552_6801830084103699004.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=

usersrdum

08-11-04, 11:09 AM

I was a little PO'd the other night watching the MNF game in SD when I knew it was being broadcast in HD. So after I tried to call and could not get through to anybody I shot off an email to Jim Wright at KDNL asking what was the problem. Here is the response I got yesterday.

Doug,
It should have been in HD...in fact it was switched in late. The screw
up was due to an employee not entering the info on the HD log. I have
immediately made changes in responsibilities and procedures so we can
hopefully avoid this happening again.
Sorry for the problem and thank you for your interest in our HD programming,
Jim

So knock on wood this won't happen again.

usersrdum

08-11-04, 11:25 AM

The following is the first 5 Weeks of Fox's HD football schedule. It comes from a very reliable source over on the www.tivocommunity.com web site from a person that works at D*. So with the Sunday night game and the MNF game at least the first 6 weeks will be in HD!!!!!

Week 1
Sunday, September 12
1p Detroit Lions @ Chicago Bears
Tampa Bay Bucs @ Washington Redskins
Arizona Cardinals @ St. Louis Rams
4p Dallas Cowboys @ Minnesota Vikings
NY Giants @ Philadelphia Eagles
Atlanta Falcons @ SF 49ers

Week 2
Sunday, September 19
1p Washington Redskins @ NY Giants
Chicago Bears @ Green Bay Packers
St. Louis Rams @ Atlanta Falcons
SF 49ers @ New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers @ Kansas City Chiefs
4p Seattle Seahawks @ Tampa Bay Bucs

Week 3
Sunday, September 26
1p Chicago Bears @ Minnesota Vikings
Philadelphia Eagles @ Detroit Lions
Arizona Cardinals @ Atlanta Falcons
New Orleans Saints @ St Louis Rams
4p Green Bay Packers @ Indianapolis Colts
SF 49ers @ Seattle Seahawks

Week 4
Sunday, October 3
1p NY Giants @ Green Bay Packers
Philadelphia Eagles @ Chicago Bears
Washington Redskins @ Cleveland Browns
4p New Orleans Saints @ Arizona Cardinals
Atlanta Falcons @ Carolina Panthers

Week 5
Sunday, October 10
1p NY Giants @ Dallas Cowboys
Minnesota Vikings @ Houston Texans
Tampa Bay Bucs @ New Orleans Saints
4p Carolina Panthers @ Denver Broncos
Arizona Cardinals @ SF 49ers
St. Louis Rams @ Seattle Seahawks

WRacer

08-11-04, 11:56 AM

Sorry for the late switch on MNF...USERSRDUM posted my e-mail. Feel free to page me if there is a problem....only one person please!
The audio is much better on HD due to the shorter path it takes with less processing. We're still working on getting the 5.1 audio. More equipment is on order but it is not scheduled for deliver until September.
Jim

wmschultz

08-11-04, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by WRacer
Feel free to page me if there is a problem....

I thought about paging you, but I was able to get a hold of someone.

I would have felt goofy paging you for something like this..

If I could have text paged you, I would have done that.

Did John Wright ever say anything to you about a phone call he got?

dweebe

08-11-04, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by WRacer
Sorry for the late switch on MNF...USERSRDUM posted my e-mail. Feel free to page me if there is a problem....only one person please!
The audio is much better on HD due to the shorter path it takes with less processing. We're still working on getting the 5.1 audio. More equipment is on order but it is not scheduled for deliver until September.
Jim

Excellent. Your hard work at a Sinclair owned affiliate is appreciated.

So you think sometime this fall for 5.1 from KDNL?

wmschultz

08-12-04, 12:07 PM

Is Sinclair still trying to sell KDNL?

GlendaleHDTV

08-12-04, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
For those who haven't been following the Olympic programming thread on the programming forum, the HD feed is totally separate, and delayed from the SD feed. So Friday night, for those wanting to see the opening ceremonies in HD, the HD broadcast is 1 hour behind the SD broadcast (SD starts at 7:00, the HD broadcast starts at 8:00).

The rest of the HD broadcasts are delayed I believe up to 24 hours.

Scratch that. According to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4183490#post4183490) the HD feed will not be delayed in the central time zone.

--Tyler

P8nter

08-12-04, 04:38 PM

Any chance the rams game will be HD tonite....KDNL web site down , cant find it anywhere.

turls

08-12-04, 05:21 PM

No.

Robert Simandl

08-12-04, 06:57 PM

The Rams game will be on KPLR, channel 11, tonight. KPLR doesn't own any HD cameras that I know of, so the chances of tonight's game being HD are minimal, I'm afraid.

Robert Simandl

08-12-04, 07:22 PM

Speaking of football, is tomorrow's New York Giants game (with Kurt Warner as starting QB) going to be available in St. Louis anywhere? Right now I'm kind of missing those New York distant nets I had with Dish Network.

And speaking of KPLR, has anyone noticed the volume level of WB programming is a LOT lower than that of KPLR-DT local programming, including commercials? Whenever I watch Smallville, I have to crank the volume several notches louder than I do for any other channel. Then when KPLR cuts to local commercials, it blasts so loud the construction workers on Knaust Road ask me to turn it down! This variance is only when WB network programs are involved. I do not have this problem when watching the syndicated Outer Limits show.

abcward

08-12-04, 07:42 PM

NFL Network is showing the Chiefs/NYGiants game tomorrow night at 7:00 pm.

Bruce

Robert Simandl

08-12-04, 08:27 PM

Oh cool! Thanks Bruce!

rbkb

08-12-04, 11:07 PM

Has anyone noticed that Charter added Channel 786? It looks to be another NBC feed, most probably the channel 5-2. I presume this is for multicasting various Olympic events. If so, (I can't believe I am saying this), KUDOS TO CHARTER!:D

Still, this doesn;t make up for not having ABC/KDNL HD!!!!:mad: :D

Robert Simandl

08-12-04, 11:18 PM

I wonder how long it will be before channel 5-2 actually has some programming info in the channel guide. The DirecTV APG on the HD Tivo says nothing but "regular schedule" 24/7. Kinda makes me feel like I'm using my old Sony HD100 again. :D

For that matter, I wonder if 5-2 will stay permanently or will it go away when the olympics are done?

duihlein

08-13-04, 09:25 AM

I forgot about WWOR on Dish. I guess I may watch a little of the Giants-Chiefs game after all. I hope the announcers are a little better than the ones we had on Ch 11 last night.

Sunday will be my first chance to see the Cards in HD on ESPN with Dish Network. Do I have to worry about it getting blacked out?

I would be very interested in hearing a review of PQ from anyone who has Charter and any other HD providers (including OTA) I plan to compare the broadcast on KSDK OTA and E*'s dedicated channel. I wish I had firewire on the 811 so I could actually see the size of the final bitstream.

Dave

DroptheRemote

08-13-04, 09:28 AM

Dave,

There's no risk of a Sunday night blackout, as KPLR doesn't do games when the Cards are on the ESPN Sunday Night game.

epalau

08-13-04, 11:53 AM

so for you dishTV subscribers - have they turned on 9425 or 148 yet? As of last night, the channels weren't listed in the program guide.

John Kotches

08-13-04, 01:28 PM

epalau,

They won't have the channel available until right before the start of the broadcasts.

Cheers,

dweebe

08-13-04, 04:41 PM

Here are links to some pieces about the Olympics in HD on NBC and KSDK.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2004/08/09/daily71.html?f=et82

http://www.ksdk.com/community/hdtv/olympics.aspx

http://www.ksdk.com/news/cover_article.aspx?storyid=65212

Good to see lots of press.

WRacer

08-13-04, 06:53 PM

wmschultz...yes, John Wright called me and said that you had called and asked if the show was in HD!
Hope to have 5.1 on by fall.
FYI for those of you in central Illinois, WICS and WICD will have HD on starting tonight...still at low power, but we'll be increasing power by end of the year. Also, 5.1 equipment is on order for those stations.
Jim

BudShark

08-13-04, 11:33 PM

I'm seeing dejavu on the Olympics... I swear I've seen these countries about 15 mins earlier :)

Clearly a blip in the recording for this - jumped back a whole sequence.

Chris

DroptheRemote

08-14-04, 09:37 AM

According to the moderator over on the HDTV Programming forum, the NBC HD feed will be up on the satellite services early this afternoon.

Not sure why this didn't happen last night, but because of the 24-hour delay, there will be plenty of opportunities to watch the opening ceremonies before any live events are available in HD.

I caught some of this on KSDK-DT last night and for the most part it looked pretty good.

Nice big screen display board there in the main stadium, eh?

epalau

08-14-04, 09:51 AM

was anyone elses audio not sync'd with the video when they showed those horrible announcers talking on 5-01? The lone sony wega commerical was fine, just the olympic commentary was .5 seconds slow for me

RaceTripper

08-14-04, 10:10 AM

CoCoKola

08-14-04, 02:04 PM

I'm glad to see the Olympics in HD this year; and I was *surprised* i didn't have to get the HD feed over the air, which I am still have troubles in Ballwin.

Mr_Bester

08-14-04, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by CoCoKola
I'm glad to see the Olympics in HD this year; and I was *surprised* i didn't have to get the HD feed over the air, which I am still have troubles in Ballwin.
Are you down in the Keifer Area? I'm near Manchester and Baxter and have no probs with RS yagi roof mount pointing just south of due east.
Dug

GlendaleHDTV

08-14-04, 03:22 PM

I emailed the Charter CSR that I've talked to before about the rollout date on the Moxi. He indicated that "our exact date is sept 16th". So take that for whatever its worth.

--Tyler

Kurt K

08-14-04, 06:55 PM

I'm very happy about seeing the Olympics in HD, but I feel a little short-changed. I mean, we didn't get Bob Costas, and we didn't get some of the better camera angles for the fireworks.

And how many of you were sick of seeing that Sony Wega commercial:mad:

wschwart

08-14-04, 08:41 PM

From what I read in the Post this morning we actually might have gotten a better deal with the announcers on HD. Apparently Costas and Couric yapped all the time and there were frequent breaks for commercials - sometimes only 3-4 minutes apart.

Kurt K

08-14-04, 11:06 PM

I will admit that commercials were les frequent in HD.

Did anyone else notice that the local Channel 5 commercials on the HD broadcast were significantly louder than the opening ceremonies or that damn Sony Wega commercial.

redwine

08-14-04, 11:55 PM

Charter added channel 786 to carry the normal channel 5 stuff but not in HD. Channel 785 switches between channel 5 HD and NBC HD coverage of the Olympics. Why couldn't Charter have both channels in HD? Are both channels in HD OTA?

epalau

08-15-04, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by Kurt K
Did anyone else notice that the local Channel 5 commercials on the HD broadcast were significantly louder than the opening ceremonies or that damn Sony Wega commercial.

definitely. Also it went from DD (hd) to pl2 (local) on my receiver.

DroptheRemote

08-15-04, 07:38 AM

redwine,

No, the secondary channel is SD. There's not enough bandwidth available to send two HD channels in the spectrum that is available OTA.

Strictly speaking, it's pushing the limits to send an HD and SD channel simulataneously. Multicasting was originally envisioned to be EITHER one HD channel OR multiple SD channels -- NOT an HD channel AND one or more SD channels.

A good example of multicasting gone wrong is PBS, which is transmitting an HD stream and two SD streams. It is clear that PBS is stealing bits from the HD stream in order to send the two SD streams.

DroptheRemote

08-15-04, 08:29 AM

A question for any TiVo HD owners:

If you record a program from KETC-DT, does the TiVo record ONLY the subchannel/program that you select, or does it record the entire datastream?

I used to own the Panasonic D-VHS and STB combination that could record OTA HD. When it recorded a channel that had multiple streams, it recorded all of them simultaneously (it was basically recording the entire datastream) and because the D-VHS recording was decoded by the STB via a proprietary Firewire connection, it was possible to watch any of the available subchannels/programs during playback by switching channels on the STB.

Does the TiVo HD work the same way? Just curious...

burgdob

08-15-04, 12:26 PM

Is there a web site that show a TV guide for only HD shows? Titan TV is close, but it seems Zenith used to have a site that's no longer available.

thanks.

DroptheRemote

08-15-04, 12:45 PM

burgdob,

There's a new site that DecisionMark, which produces TitanTV, is working on to show just HD programming:

http://www.checkhd.com/CheckProgrammingCS.aspx

It says it will be up and running September 20.

faceman

08-15-04, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by epalau
was anyone elses audio not sync'd with the video when they showed those horrible announcers talking on 5-01? The lone sony wega commerical was fine, just the olympic commentary was .5 seconds slow for me

Whew! I see that delay every time the commentators are shown -- including today during swimming -- and thought it was just me and my Samsung DLP. (Haven't had any of the lag problems with that set, but many in the Rear Projection forums have.)

So I guess it's just KSDK's OTA signal? Well, I can't complain much- 99% of this broadcast is just INCREDIBLE. My first experience with HD, and- WOW!

Now if we could just ditch those neighbors who brought chips... and salsa... ;)

burgdob

08-15-04, 05:30 PM

Thanks Doug. Looks like that'll be it.

redwine

08-15-04, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
redwine,

No, the secondary channel is SD. There's not enough bandwidth available to send two HD channels in the spectrum that is available OTA.

Strictly speaking, it's pushing the limits to send an HD and SD channel simulataneously. Multicasting was originally envisioned to be EITHER one HD channel OR multiple SD channels -- NOT an HD channel AND one or more SD channels.

A good example of multicasting gone wrong is PBS, which is transmitting an HD stream and two SD streams. It is clear that PBS is stealing bits from the HD stream in order to send the two SD streams.

Thanks Doug,

I guess we Charter slaves should just be happy Charter did anything to make our Olympic HD experience memorable.

Toeside

08-16-04, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
A question for any TiVo HD owners:

If you record a program from KETC-DT, does the TiVo record ONLY the subchannel/program that you select, or does it record the entire datastream?

I used to own the Panasonic D-VHS and STB combination that could record OTA HD. When it recorded a channel that had multiple streams, it recorded all of them simultaneously (it was basically recording the entire datastream) and because the D-VHS recording was decoded by the STB via a proprietary Firewire connection, it was possible to watch any of the available subchannels/programs during playback by switching channels on the STB.

Does the TiVo HD work the same way? Just curious...

It only records one of the channels, not the entire stream.

Can you believe Clifford is in HD? That's just crazy! :p

Craig

DroptheRemote

08-16-04, 01:21 PM

Craig,

Thanks for answering my question.

It's strange that the TiVo doesn't record the entire stream, because I would think that it must have required a fair bit additional development work to isolate just the selected channel, since you'd need to write code to separate the subchannels and then only save those for the selected program.

Of course, there is a modest benefit in this approach in that you save disk space by not saving something that you weren't specifically interested in watching.

Toeside

08-16-04, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Craig,

Thanks for answering my question.

It's strange that the TiVo doesn't record the entire stream, because I would think that it must have required a fair bit additional development work to isolate just the selected channel, since you'd need to write code to separate the subchannels and then only save those for the selected program.

Of course, there is a modest benefit in this approach in that you save disk space by not saving something that you weren't specifically interested in watching.

Doug,

I think it's this way to minimize confusion. Sure, all of us are technical geeks, but soon, HDTV views won't be the geeky, techie, know-it-alls that they (we) are now. If I want to record Clifford on 9-1 and suddenly I had Clifford, and 2 other shows automatically appear, I might be confused.

TiVo, to me, has always been about ease-of-use. It records what you want it to. To have 2 extra items in Now Playing every time you record a KETC show might be confusing to the average user.

Just a guess...

You know, it could be possible that the entire stream is recorded, but the other shows are masked from our view. Now that's an interesting idea...

Craig

DroptheRemote

08-17-04, 12:05 AM

Craig,

The ease of use issue is probably as good an explanation as any.

I also wondered about whether TiVo might actually just record the whole stream and then hide the subchannels.

SheerLuck_Homes

08-17-04, 09:50 AM

I finally broke down and got a Dish Network 921. I also have a 6000 which is in living room on 46" JVC rear projection. The 921 went to the basement on the Zenith 52" LCD. I tried splitting one of the feeds between the 6000 for both receivers, but got lousey reception on the 6000, but pretty good signal strength on the 921 second hard drive.

Tried line amplifiers but then lost the signal completely on both receivers. Went through three different amps, all same results. So went out and got a quad LNB so the 921 had its own feeds and the 6000 had its own feed as well.

Now all have over 112% signals from the dish and locals are coming in off a roof top antenna. CBS is the strongest and UPN the weakest. But all absolutely viewable.

I'm in south St Louis on northwest side of Carondelet Park. Happy as a pig in mud.

abcward

08-17-04, 10:50 AM

OK, so after my wife called Charter last night to complain about her precious VOD service not working again and had the joy of speaking with a CSR who obviously couldnt give a damn, I have finally been given the opportunity to 'look into' switching back to satellite.

Advice please: We basically currently have all the 'regular channels', HD service, and most of the premium channels. The premium Sunday Ticket type sports packages don't really interest us since my wife probably wont let me watch any more sports than I already do. Also, I want to get a DVR in whatever satellite service I go to.

Honestly I need to keep the monthly costs as close to what we're paying now and not have a huge initial outlay of money either.

So, with that all in mind, is Dish or DirecTV the way for me to go [and why]? And, after deciding with satellite service to go with, do I just call them directly or is there some secondary sales company better for getting a good deal?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bruce

Toeside

08-17-04, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by SheerLuck_Homes
Now all have over 112% signals from the dish and locals are coming in off a roof top antenna. CBS is the strongest and UPN the weakest. But all absolutely viewable.

I'm in south St Louis on northwest side of Carondelet Park. Happy as a pig in mud.

Those are percentages, or you couldn't have 112! :)

North side of Carondelet Park? Holly Hills or Federer area? Man, I love those houses.

Toeside

08-17-04, 11:47 AM

Bruce,

My bias against Dish Network is old, and probably outdated, but I'd say go with DirecTV.

If you can stomach the cash outlay for the HD TiVo, it's the right way to go. How many receivers will you want? There are currently promotions for the SD DirecTiVos--two for $40 for new subscribers. I saw that at www.*********************. Then you can get the HD TiVo from any retailer that has them. I bought mine from Ultimate Electronics in Bridgeton. I had to wait about 6 weeks.

My approx fees right now:
Total Choice Plus: $40
TiVo DVR fee: $5
Extra receivers (2): $10
HD Package: Free for 6 months, then $10.99/month for 6 months
Showtime: Free for 6 months (then we'll probably cancel)

FYI, I had Dishnetwork 3 years ago. Their hardware kept breaking, and I was frustrated and left. I haven't looked back since then, especially now that I'm spoiled with TiVo.

Craig

turls

08-17-04, 11:57 AM

Possible, I never thought about it until now, the answer is probably on TC somewhere, and since Tivo doesn't have a disk space remaining feature, I don't know that there is really a way to tell.

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
I also wondered about whether TiVo might actually just record the whole stream and then hide the subchannels.

turls

08-17-04, 11:58 AM

The Sunday night game has national rights anyway. No blackouts. In addition, typically blackouts apply even if a local broadcaster decides not to show a game.

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
There's no risk of a Sunday night blackout, as KPLR doesn't do games when the Cards are on the ESPN Sunday Night game.

zimmerk

08-17-04, 03:01 PM

Hi, I am new to this forum and I apologize if this topic has already been brought up before. I am in Brentwood and have Directv and an antenna to recieve the over the air HD channels. I can get all them perfectly except CBS which doesn't come through at all. I have tried adjusting the antenna but if I do, I get CBS but none of the other channels. Do you think it is possible for me to get permission to recieve the CBS HD channel from Directv. Thanks for your help.

wschwart

08-17-04, 03:32 PM

Ziimmerk, I live in Rock Hill and pretty close to Brentwood. The problem may be that your antenna is not high enough. I had to have a 5 foot extension put on mine because the KMOV signal was apparently going over my antenna. Ever since then the reception has been outstanding. Try adding at least 5 feet and see what happens.

DroptheRemote

08-17-04, 04:04 PM

zimmerk,

I don't have any experience with the stations here, but when I lived in San Francisco those stations were adamantly opposed to giving waivers to anyone for any reason other than residing outside the tested area where signals were proven to be receivable.

From what I've read elsewhere on AVS, most affilliate stations throughout the country dig in their heels on waivers, largely because, once granted, they are permanent and can't be withdrawn if the transmission and receipt circumstances change.

Of course, if raising the height of your antenna isn't an option, it can't hurt to write a waiver request letter and send it to the KMOV station manager, but I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

dweebe

08-17-04, 04:50 PM

Back before I had to sell my HDTV I had some problems with KMOV. I did about a 4 foot raise and was able to get a signal. I really doubt you'll have any luck getting a waiver. All I've seen is horror stories about not getting one: especially if you don't live that far away. Try a taller mast for your antenna: it will be less of a hassle.

(Isn't KMOV's tower the one down behind Lindbergh High School?)

BTW zimmerk: is Charter pipeline available in your area? I've been looking at houses down in that area and I know the city is hit and miss for cable internet.

davidnark

08-17-04, 06:17 PM

I e-mailed Charter regarding the roleout date for the Moxi boxes and received the following reply:

"Thank you for contacting Charter Communications.

We anticipate launching this service in early September, but do not have an exact date at this time."

4113

08-17-04, 09:40 PM

The actual target date is now September 16th.
Training for technicians and CSR's begins in early September.
The call back list for the unit has over 800 names.
HD is not required to order the box. Is is targeted for all subs.
The unit is in many households today such as "friendlies" and former B.O.B. (BMC-8000) subscribers. I have been testing the unit for several weeks and love it. The unit is working well after the software upgrade.

jedi35

08-18-04, 03:51 AM

Hey, it's nice to be back in St. Louis after a few weeks in the woods of northern Michigan. Ah, civilization.....a nice dlp pj, an 8' screen, the Olympics in HD..... how nice. A couple of you were wanting to come over and check my PB6100 out. Whoever you are, pop me a PM. Add me to the list of guys who are sick of that doggone Sony commercial. If anyone's interested, I'm doing a concert with the St. Louis Symphony coming up this Friday at 7pm, under the Arch. It's a free concert, and part of RiverSplash.

4113,
Do I need to get on this list of 800 people in order to get the Moxi box, or can I just call around 9-16?

davidnark

08-18-04, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by 4113
The actual target date is now September 16th.
Training for technicians and CSR's begins in early September.
The call back list for the unit has over 800 names.
HD is not required to order the box. Is is targeted for all subs.
The unit is in many households today such as "friendlies" and former B.O.B. (BMC-8000) subscribers. I have been testing the unit for several weeks and love it. The unit is working well after the software upgrade.

Thanks for the info. I have two questions. First, if I am on the list, am I essentially guaranteed a box? Second, I don't yet have the Charter HDTV service; can I order it in connection with the Moxi install or do I have to order it in advance? Thanks!

tcfila

08-18-04, 04:48 PM

My latest bill said the dvr will available sometime in September but that you can begin ordering them on Aug 24th.

Tim

DroptheRemote

08-18-04, 06:35 PM

The following is from today's MediaBuz.com MarketClose Report:

MarketClose - August 18, 2004

TOP STORY - Most of the nation's big cable companies - Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Insight, Mediacom, Adelphia, Charter and Cablevision - fell below the industry average score in J.D. Powers and Associates study of customer satisfaction among cable and satellite TV services.

Satellite TV companies EchoStar's DISH Network and DirecTV ranked No. 1 and No. 2, respectively, and Cox Communications rated better than the customer satisfaction industry average.

BudShark

08-18-04, 10:14 PM

Question on NBCs Olympic coverage since I don't have an antenna right now:

Is it extremely soft and pixelated over the air or is this a condition of Charter? The quality seems very poor...

Chris

fireshoes

08-18-04, 11:03 PM

Hi all, I just wanted to introduce myself here. I've been posting in the Des Moines HD thread for quite awhile, but I'm moving to St. Louis next week. My name is Robert Taylor and I'm 29. I'm in home theater sales for American, which is an electronics, furniture, and appliances store that will be opening in the area soon. There's probably been ads running for it on tv, but if anyone has any questions about it, I'd be happy to answer them. We are opening three stores this fall, at about 130,000 sq feet each. I'll be working at the Bridgeton store which is across the road from St. Louis Mills Mall. The other stores will be in Fenton and O'Fallon, IL.

Assuming I have a clear view from my apartment, I'm planning on using Directv as my provider. I've got a Hitachi 51" hdtv, and Yamaha and Polk Audio for surround sound. It looks like there is lots of great info here, and I look forward to talking more HD with you in the future.

BTW Chris, from what I've seen of the Olympics here in Des Moines, the picture has been fairly soft, but no pixelization to speak of.

redwine

08-18-04, 11:49 PM

Welcome fireshoes,

We could use some more mega competition in electronics here in St. Louis. I have not heard of American or seen any ads yet. What type of furniture do you sell? I don't think we have any stores with that combination of merchandise here.

Chris, I think the Olympics are soft but still look damn good compared to the SD channels. Maybe next time NBC/KSDK will dedicate the proper bandwidth for a perfect picture.

redwine

08-18-04, 11:55 PM

Jedi,

Do you still think VOOM is worth the price? Do you watch it more than your other HD sources? I need more quality HD to satisfy my urges. Does VOOM provide quality HD on all those channels or just more eye candy which teases but doesn't satisfy. I need satisfaction.

jedi35

08-19-04, 01:21 AM

redwine,

I do quite a bit of HD watching on Voom. I subscribe to the larger package, which gives me just about everything they have. The Voom original channels can vary in quality. The 10 movie channels aren't as good as HDNet Movies. And a couple others, like Monsters for instance aren't very good. But, there is so much great HD that it doesn't bother me that much. I get 2 HBOs in HD, 2 SHO-HDs, 2 MAX-HDs, TMC-HD, ENC-HD, TNT-HD, ESPN-HD, BravoHD, and DSCV-HD, just to name a few. There are some really good Voom news, travel, sports, and music and variety chanels in HD as well. I don't think anybody does as much high quality HD as Voom. I just wish they would release a firewire enabled dvr. OK, just a dvr then. Bottom line, it's well worth the money if you need more HD. Also, you can bet that if a new HD channel comes out, Voom will carry it first.

DroptheRemote

08-19-04, 07:34 AM

FYI -- VOOM was not included in this report, presumably due to its small subscriber base when the survey was conducted.

The following is from SkyREPORT E-News:

____________________________

Satellite Still Tops in J.D. Power Study

Satellite TV continues to beat cable in terms of overall customer satisfaction, with EchoStar's DISH Network and DirecTV topping the wired technology again in this year's J.D. Power and Associates study on consumers and the pay-TV business, released Wednesday by the marketing research firm.

The two satellite TV companies received the highest customer satisfaction rankings among the 13 largest providers of cable and DBS service. DISH Network regained its No. 1 ranking from 2000, receiving top ratings from customers in three of six factors that drive overall satisfaction: Billing, cost of service and offerings, and promotions. DirecTV was close behind DISH Network in the rankings, followed by cable companies WideOpenWest, Cox Communications, RCN and Bright House Networks.

Customer service once again re-established itself as the top driver of consumer satisfaction, contributing to 26 percent of the overall customer satisfaction index score, J.D. Power said. The factor weighting is the highest seen for any factor in the J.D. Power cable/satellite TV study, representing a stark contrast to the 10 percent weighting that the customer service factor averaged over the previous three years, the firm said.

The study also found that the current average monthly expenditure for pay TV service is $49.08 among satellite subscribers and $50.98 among cable subscribers.

The 2004 study is based on responses from 8,668 U.S. households who evaluated their satellite or cable TV providers, J.D. Power said.
____________________________