St. Louis, MO - HDTV *OLD* [Text View] - Page 18

jedi35

12-29-04, 03:44 AM

Dean,

Nice to find out about a fellow customer of Music for Pleasure. I've been a customer there ever since they first opened up a storefront on Lockwood in Old Webster years ago. They just picked up some wonderful German equipment that they are running in the big system in the front room. The company is called T+A(guys, get your minds out of the gutter!!), and I brought home the P 1230 preamp, just for a demo. Man, it's sweet, and I decided today that I have to have it. It easily put to shame my $3,000 Audible Illusions tube preamp. With the remote control kit, the P 1230 retails for about $2650, and they believe that it blows away everything up through and including the $22,000 Krell preamp. That's a huge claim, but I now believe it, after spending some time with it. It will be money well spent, and probably the last preamp I'll ever buy.

I checked out the pictures of your theater setup, and it looks nice, much neater than mine. I'm a big fan of Dynaudio and Arcam. Let me know if you want to come over for a listen sometime.

Bob,
Wow, it looks like you're pretty close to completing your computer. Do you think I should just go for it right now, or wait til the next P4 chip comes out early in the new year? Also, my new dvd recorder doesn't seem to be doing a good job with the widescreen format. It seems that things are ok for widescreen prerecorded dvd viewing, but since home recording is done off svideo or composite, the format gets distorted. I get black bars on top and bottom, and people are too short and fat. Video quality is nice, especially in the one or two hour modes. Putting the player in progressive scan mode doesn't seem to help the picture format. It could be that my Pioneer tv doesn't like the player's output. I'll see what my pj does with it. Any ideas?

Oh, I forgot. Guys, my Zenith DVB 318 upconverting dvd player arrived today, a day ahead of schedule. The preliminary test are good, and I can see an improvement when going to 720p and 1080i. The image looks a bit more solid, and detailing is better. Strangely, the contrast range seems a bit more extended, with brighter brights and darker darks. The chip in this machine seems a bit better than the LG 3510A. I also love the fact that I can choose 48 or 96 KHz in the setup menu, as my Sony DA5ES receiver can handle 96 KHz, giving me wonderful dvd sound. I did get a fairly new machine, with a build date of Oct. '04. That means that it won't upconvert anything over component with copy protection. However, I'm going to flash the firmware so that it will upconvert everything. I've got some reading to do in the dvd forum.

duihlein

12-29-04, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by jedi35
[Bob,
Wow, it looks like you're pretty close to completing your computer. Do you think I should just go for it right now, or wait til the next P4 chip comes out early in the new year? Also, my new dvd recorder doesn't seem to be doing a good job with the widescreen format. It seems that things are ok for widescreen prerecorded dvd viewing, but since home recording is done off svideo or composite, the format gets distorted. I get black bars on top and bottom, and people are too short and fat. Video quality is nice, especially in the one or two hour modes. Putting the player in progressive scan mode doesn't seem to help the picture format. It could be that my Pioneer tv doesn't like the player's output. I'll see what my pj does with it. Any ideas?

It sounds like it was not properly encoded for anamorphic. I would look at the software settings.

Dave

Robert Simandl

12-29-04, 08:02 AM

Hey jedi,

I'd guess your recorder has the same problem with 16x9 material that my ReplayTV does. Since it only records through 480i inputs, it probably assumes everything is 4x3 and records it that way.

The way I solve it with the Replay when burning to DVD is, after importing to my PC and before authoring, I run the mpeg through a program called DVD Patcher. It lets me alter the header info without changing the video/audio data itself. I simply change the aspect ratio from 4x3 to 16x9. End of problem.

Your recorder most likely doesn't have an ethernet port, so if you want to try that solution, you'll need to record a DVD-RW, stick it into your PC's DVD drive, and copy it to your hard drive. Then you can run DVD patcher on it, author it to a new DVD-R, and see how THAT plays.

As for when to build your new PC, if you wait six months, the parts will be cheaper and better still after another six months. In other words, it will ALWAYS be better and cheaper six months down the road no matter how many months you wait in the first place... unless you're patient like me, wait for ridiculously low specials and grab 'em when you see 'em (my case, mobo, and power supply were FREE after the rebates).

So my advice is, start when you feel you need to rather than waiting for prices to drop in general. But at the same time, keep an eye out for specials and sales. Techbargains.com is on my daily must-visit list.

Toeside

12-29-04, 10:12 AM

This is pure theory at work here, but since DVD recorders can only record an interlaced signal, I don't think they are 16:9 aware. It'll record any input as 4:3, so you should adjust your source appropriately.

I looked into getting a DVD recorder a couple months ago, and read up on them a little. I never once saw any of them claim they could had 16:9 recording. I figured if they could, it'd be a big featured item. I decided to hold off until that's available.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: Just saw Bob's reply. :)

RaceTripper

12-29-04, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by jedi35
Dean,

Nice to find out about a fellow customer of Music for Pleasure. I've been a customer there ever since they first opened up a storefront on Lockwood in Old Webster years ago. They just picked up some wonderful German equipment that they are running in the big system in the front room. The company is called T+A(guys, get your minds out of the gutter!!), and I brought home the P 1230 preamp, just for a demo. Man, it's sweet, and I decided today that I have to have it. It easily put to shame my $3,000 Audible Illusions tube preamp. With the remote control kit, the P 1230 retails for about $2650, and they believe that it blows away everything up through and including the $22,000 Krell preamp. That's a huge claim, but I now believe it, after spending some time with it. It will be money well spent, and probably the last preamp I'll ever buy.

I checked out the pictures of your theater setup, and it looks nice, much neater than mine. I'm a big fan of Dynaudio and Arcam. Let me know if you want to come over for a listen sometime.

I remember MFP from the Lockwood days as well. That's when I first went to them for my LP12 parts after Music Systems (whom I worked for) went out of business. I was just there yesterday to pick up a Niles 12V-controlled outlet strip (so my AVR can trigger my pwr amps), and got my sub from them just 2 weeks ago. Seems I'm always running over there for a cable or an upgrade, etc. Now I'm thinking about some Dyn Contour T2.5/T2.1 speakers as an upgrade.

I have heard the T+A stuff. While I haven't given it a serious audition (out of my price range) I am most impressed with what I heard. And it looks great.

Glad you like my setup. The Arcam/Dyn combo works really well together. We'll have to check out each others systems sometime.

Dean

Tom Grooms

12-29-04, 11:51 AM

Hey Dean, I'm still up in the air on my center channel. They never made the T2.1 in maple and I'm not sure how a birds eye finish would look with the maple 72SE's. I may just get a 122c to hold me off until I go front projection. What are your thoughts on the 122c? I did order the Dynaudio Sub 500 and the 52SEs for the rear. :D

Dynaudio will be releasing two new subs at CES. The Sub 250 (little guy) and the Sub 700 (large ported HT style). I'm sure I'll get all the output I need form the 500 and generally prefer a sealed sub anyway.

RaceTripper

12-29-04, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
Hey Dean, I'm still up in the air on my center channel. They never made the T2.1 in maple and I'm not sure how a birds eye finish would look with the maple 72SE's. I may just get a 122c to hold me off until I go front projection. What are your thoughts on the 122c? I did order the Dynaudio Sub 500 and the 52SEs for the rear. :D

Dynaudio will be releasing two new subs at CES. The Sub 250 (little guy) and the Sub 700 (large ported HT style). I'm sure I'll get all the output I need form the 500 and generally prefer a sealed sub anyway.

I like the 122C a lot, but it is now the weak link in my speaker setup. Short of getting a Contour it's about the best choice. I have done 3 things to improve it: (1) use a Transparent MusicWave cable, (2) put it on the Dynaudio center stand above the TV with a downward angle, and (3) power it with an Arcam Alpha 10 (170 Watts) amp instead of the AVR (100 Watts). But I would like to replace it with the Contour T2.1 or SC at some point.

Didn't know about the new Dyn Subs. I'm curious about the 700, but the Sub500 works extremely well in my setup. It's better than the older Contour Sub.

In any case, I'm on hold with major upgrades for the time being. My car lease ends in a few months and I've now decided I want to upgrade, so I need to save funds for that. And that's an upgrade that has wife approval. :-)

jedi35

12-29-04, 04:45 PM

Bob,
Strange news. The 16:9 material that I record on my new dvd recorder plays in proper aspect ratio on my pj when I set the pj to 4:3. Way cool!! I also found a soft fix for it on my Pioneer, but it's not perfect. My tv locks into full mode when it senses a progressive signal, so if I send it interlaced SD, I can choose another picture mode that fills the screen better. Natural wide looks pretty good, however there is a little distortion, and I'm totally missing the quality of progressive scan.

Well guys, I stayed up all night reading, trying to figure out how to flash the firmware on my new Zenith 318 upconverting dvd player. The goal was to return the newer firmware back to an earlier version that allows upconversion of all dvds through component, copy protected or not. Mission accomplished. I simply had to download a file, rename it, burn it to cd, and stick it in the player. I followed the onscreen instructions for software upgrade, and it was done. Quite simple. I then popped in a macrovision LOTR disc, and it upconverted fine. This is a great dvd player at 1080i. In fact, many believe that the 1080i(not 720p) is a bit better than 1080i coming out of the Brave D1/D2's dvi output. An analog signal beating a digital signal? As good as it looks, I can believe it. I then settled into the first Indiane Jones flick, and the picture is just killer, along with great sound. I didn't spend a lot of money, and the results with my Benq pj are simply amazing. A definite keeper.

Side note: for those who are interested, you can flash the new or old firmware as many times as you want to. The new version is for those who only want to use dvi, as it fixes a white crush issue. If you only want to use component, use the old version, and there's no white crush issue on component.

Dean,
Just PM me when you want to get together. Was Music Systems a shop in South City run by a guy named Jeff? If so, I think I got my Rega Planar 3 turntable there. He taught me that even having a telephone in the same room as your music system can affect the sound. Interesting guy.

RaceTripper

12-29-04, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by jedi35

Dean,
Just PM me when you want to get together. Was Music Systems a shop in South City run by a guy named Jeff? If so, I think I got my Rega Planar 3 turntable there. He taught me that even having a telephone in the same room as your music system can affect the sound. Interesting guy.

Yup, that's the one. I worked there as office mgr. and record buyer during my music undergrad years at Webster. Jeff Horen was quite a piece of work and hard to deal with, but he really knew his stuff. He showed me about how to really evaluate audio equipment and to appreciate how good British audio gear is. Thru him, I got my Linn/Naim system. He was good at demonstrating how sympathetic vibrations from passive speakers, thin drywall, etc. could affect the quality of a stereo system. He was always making me participate in double-blind tests of stuff, even when I had too much work to do.

Dean

BradZ

12-29-04, 10:56 PM

Dean and Tom,

I know it flies in the face of all logic, but here goes. I'm also a huge Dynaudio/MFP fan. I've got two Dyn 2 channel set-ups. Audience 50's in the bedroom and Contour 1.3IISE's in the main room. When it came time to upgrade my HT I thought seriously about going with an Audience system, but in the end thought that was too much $$$ to spend on purely movies. After searching and reading I decided to buy a set of Ascend Acoustics. I'm thrilled with their performance and I can honestly say that they are very Dyn-like in sound. You could try the Ascend 340C for a center in an Audience system for HT and probably get a bump in performance over the Audience center without too much problem. If your system is double duty music and theater it may be more noticable. I will say that the difference between the Audience 50's and the CBM-170's is negligible and for the price difference it's insane the performance that Ascend is putting out. I won't give up my Dyns for two channel just yet, but for HT the Ascends more than hold their own.

If you want to see how the Ascend center channel sounds with your Dyns, PM me.

jedi35

12-30-04, 01:12 AM

Dean,
Wow, what a small music world it is. I'll bet that we might have even crossed paths briefly at Music Systems. Yes, you're right. Jeff was quite strange, but I learned a lot from him as well. A fellow musician from the symphony led me there, and he also purchased his Linn LP12 and Naim electronics there. And his name(naim) is Lynn(linn)...how's that for a play on words?

One of the preamps that I own is the $2500 Linn Kairn, which just went on the blink after several years of service. Lynn and Jeff were the first people that I'd met who were absolutely deadset against any form of digital recording or playback systems. Linn and Naim were heavy analog companies, until they finally came out with their own super expensive cd players. Jeff was convinced that it wasn't possible for a digital recorder to capture enough info to reproduce correct pitch from a musical instrument. I disagreed with him on that, while I did feel that early digital did leave a lot to be desired. Did you experience a similar attitude from him?

Does anyone have any hdtv reception stuff to talk about???

Robert Simandl

12-30-04, 06:32 AM

Far as HD reception, just about every HD program I watch is in reruns for another week. After Wednesday, featuring not only the return of LOST but the two-hour season premiere of ALIAS, I'll have lots to talk about!

RaceTripper

12-30-04, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by jedi35
...A fellow musician from the symphony led me there...

... Jeff was convinced that it wasn't possible for a digital recorder to capture enough info to reproduce correct pitch from a musical instrument. I disagreed with him on that, while I did feel that early digital did leave a lot to be desired. Did you experience a similar attitude from him...

One of the reasons the symphony and other musicians went there (other than audio gear) was because I was the record buyer while working on my degree in Musicology. I knew how to find and buy European jazz and classical labels/recordings that no other stores in the area could get there hands on, and I was able to obtain a lot of ecclectic and obscure recordings. It was fun. My own LP collection (about 3000 titles) has many examples of these.

Jeff wasn't just convinced about analog being superior, he was adamant and passionate about it. But in those days (mid 80s) he was absolutely right. Digital audio (software and hardware) completely sucked in those days and didn't even come close to analog. It isn't the same now, but I still prefer analog LPs on my Linn LP12 over CDs. One of these days, though, I'll spring for an Arcam upsampling CD player. For now I have an Arcam DVD player, but that's still not as good as LPs.

Anyone have opnions about the Wingard SS2000 OTA antennae. I'm thinking about trying it out. How about the new SS3000. Is that worthwhile?

There, a serious question about local recption. :)

Dean

Toeside

12-30-04, 01:44 PM

Speaking of the return of Alias....

Has anyone noticed the new previews are highlighting Jennifer Garner's, um, "body of assets"?

My wife certainly noticed, and exclaimed "They better not turn this into a sexpot show!"

I hope they don't either. (although, I have nothing against Jennifer's assets)

Craig

sconstan

12-30-04, 06:02 PM

Just got the MOXI installed yesterday. My first impression... not very impressed. Granted some of this is probably Charter and I am sure much of this has already been posted:

1) Analog picture quality with or without buffering sucks (probably Charter).
2) Volume levels vary drastically from channel to channel (probably Charter).
3) The no choice picture stretch of 4:3 content. I personally like the Sony wide zoom way to fill the screen.
4) Slow speed changing channels.
5) An 80 gig hard drive for a HD DVR? I knew this going in and if there were no other issues I could live with it.

I am going to play with it some more this weekend but the box is probably going back. I will either stick with E* or switch to D* and get a SD Tivo until a cheaper HD DVR comes out. There is no way I am spending $1000 on a glorified VCR.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve

Robert Simandl

12-30-04, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Toeside
Speaking of the return of Alias....

Has anyone noticed the new previews are highlighting Jennifer Garner's, um, "body of assets"?

My wife certainly noticed, and exclaimed "They better not turn this into a sexpot show!"

I hope they don't either. (although, I have nothing against Jennifer's assets)

Hey Craig,

Alias was ALWAYS a sexpot show if ya ask me. :D

And I find absolutely nothing wrong with that. :D

Though I'd like to have something against her assets.

Okay, I'll turn "pervert mode" back off now.

Robert Simandl

12-30-04, 06:23 PM

Hey Steve,

Last I heard, *E had dropped the retail of the 921 HD DVR to $549, and fixed the bug that caused no guide info for local OTA HD channels.

Toeside

12-30-04, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Hey Craig,

Alias was ALWAYS a sexpot show if ya ask me. :D

And I find absolutely nothing wrong with that. :D

Though I'd like to have something against her assets.

Okay, I'll turn "pervert mode" back off now.

Do you remember season 1? Who was Jennifer Garner then, except the girl who was the roommate of Jennifer Love Hewitt in the Party of 5 spin-off (which I saw maybe 2 times). She was awesome in Alias from the beginning, as what I'd consider an unknown.

Now Alias is huge, and it got that way because of the story, IMHO. But, all the previews are just showing off her looks, not the show. Perhaps I'm wrong. This is my wife's favorite show too, and I'd just hate to see her start disliking it because it starts to focus on Jennifer's looks and not the story line.

So, who's the new boss going to be?

My guess?
Sloan. He "proved" himself to be so helpful to the CIA, they completely cleaned his record and gave him the lead job. Boy, I hope I'm wrong!

sconstan

12-30-04, 10:05 PM

Robert,

Thanks for the info, $549 sounds a bit more intriguing for a glorified VCR. Wonder if I can research what it has to offer and decide whether to purchase it tomorrow so I can make it a "business expense" for 2004.

Steve

DroptheRemote

12-30-04, 11:15 PM

Steve,

I agree that $1000 for an HD-TiVo is "over the top."

But I strongly disagree with your characterization of TiVo (or Replay, or any other DVR) as a "glorified VCR." It's similar to calling the Concorde a "glorified hang glider."

No doubt this is a common misconception about DVRs, and I think it goes a long way toward explaining why these products haven't done better with consumers. But then again, I haven't met anyone who would willingly give up their TiVo once they've lived with it for a month or two.

I've also found with my own customers that introducing a TiVo into the home theater system (and elsewhere in the house) is the quickest way around the common "spouse approval" barrier.

SheerLuck_Homes

12-31-04, 09:38 AM

TVIO - 921 - DVR - GLORIFIED VCR. Whats in a name when they can and do charge you a monthly fee just be be able to use it after paying outright for it. Just amazes me.

jdonigan

12-31-04, 01:00 PM

I have to agree with Doug. If you don't know the difference, (between a fully functioning DVR and a "glorified VCR") it's because you haven't used one long enough (about 3 weeks) to recognize the difference. A Replay is the ONLY consumer electronics device that my wife likes enough to have a separate one of her own.

StLouG

12-31-04, 02:19 PM

Count me in about the popularity of the DVR among wifes. My wife actually got upset because I told that I was thinking about switching to VOOM and she wanted to know would we lose the DVR? She stated " I like that the best."

sconstan

12-31-04, 02:22 PM

I am very tech savvy and know exactly what the difference between a VCR and a DVR is. But the fact is what 99% of the people truly want is a way to time shift material easily, cheaply and conveniently which is what VCRs have been doing quite nicely for some 30 years now. The season pass feature, pausing and rewinding, etc. of live TV while quite handy is not a primary feature for most people. The fact our friend Mr. Holmes pointed out that people are being charged a monthly fee to use a product they purchased, sometimes for a tidy sum of money, is the primary reason DVRs have not been adopted like the VCR.

Doug, you stating that my labeling a DVR a glorified VCR is akin to comparing a glider to the Concorde, while quite a stretch and frankly rather silly, is actually not that far off base. It is more like comparing a 747 to the Concorde. Both planes ultimately serve the same purpose, to transport people over great distances quickly. While the Concorde did a smashing job of this, the costs were prohibitive and the privilege of using it was reserved only to the very wealthy, and can now only be seen in a museum. The 747 on the other hand is not very glamorous or nearly as fast, but cheaply transports large numbers of people safely and efficiently across the globe.

I actually feel that the DVR will soon be widely adopted but only if something changes. Either make them so cheap (or free) that people don't mind paying a monthly fee to use them, or charge people what is required to make a profit on the machines and don't have any monthly fees. Cable companies are taking the approach of bundling the lease and monthly service fee and I feel they will be quite successful. I would have kept the MOXI, but for my requirements it and Charter are not quite ready for prime time.

I am considering a PVR 921 with the recent price drop, but the fact that I need to pay a monthly fee to use the PVR feature ticks me off. That and the fact that there is no easy way to archive material will probably break the deal for me.

Steve

abcward

12-31-04, 07:43 PM

ESPN2-HD is starting within the week. Has anyone heard of any STL carriers who will offer the new HD channel this week/month?

Happy New Year

Bruce

hall316

12-31-04, 08:07 PM

Is Directv going to carry it?

DroptheRemote

12-31-04, 08:27 PM

Steve,

Thanks for the reply.

From your initial notes, I assumed you were a DVR newbie -- I apologize for the assumption.

But after reading your reply, I do understand your viewpoint, but I think there's a couple of additional points worth highlighting.

While I agree that 99% of consumers just want "a way to time shift material easily, cheaply and conveniently", I don't think VCRs ever came close to meeting those criteria. VCRs were far too complex, with most VCR owners never mastering the "complexities" of setting the clock, never mind programming the damn thing. In addition, a VCR requires constant care and feeding -- estimating how much time is remaining on that cassette inside, or locating a blank tape with sufficient storage space, or even finding a previously used tape that can safely be recorded over.

Also, if you were going away on a business trip or vacation for two weeks, a VCR was useless because of the severely limited recording capacity.

As far as the fee for DVRs, I agree that's a bummer, and it's easy for me to overlook that, because when I bought my ReplayTV box, I had the no-brainer option of a lifetime subscription for an extra $150.

Still, I don't think the DVR fees are all that unreasonable, particularly as you never have to invest in tapes. In addition, I really believe that if you're paying more than $40 a month for satellite or cable, a DVR is about the only thing that gives you a fighting chance of getting your money's worth.

In my own case, there's tons of stuff available on satellite that appeals to me (documentaries, cooking programs, PBS shows, music programs) that I'd never in a million years bother with if a VCR was required. With Replay or TiVo, it's child's play. So, in that respect, I don't have a any problem at all with a reasonable fee (no more than $10/month), because it allows me to get a lot more value from the money I'm already spending on my satellite subscription.

FWIW, I'm not looking to start an argument here. Just sharing my perspective as a full-fledged DVR addict.

boby

01-01-05, 09:10 AM

A Charter Communications customer from Washington has reported in the "programming" section that on December 29, Charter activated Starz HD, and Cinemax HD, on their system, and that a CSR said two more channels would be added by the end of January.

I wonder if St. Louis will get these channels, or if St. Louis will be left out, like with Discovery HD being on most Charter systems and not here.

Robert Simandl

01-01-05, 10:18 AM

Uh oh, I smell another FCC fine coming....

Just got done watching last night's Jay Leno, with Motley Crue as the "musical" guest. At the end of the show, one of the band members yelled "Happy F'ing New Year!" Either the show airs without a seven second delay or the button-holder was asleep at the switch, because the F word went out loud and clear.

John Kotches

01-01-05, 05:46 PM

Does anybody that frequents this thread have usable soldering skills?

I need to do about 12 solders, and I have been banned from using a soldering iron in the states of Florida, Illinois and Masschusetts ;)

No seriously, I'm no good at that, and I need to do some soldering of cables onto wall plates.

Cheers,

fireshoes

01-01-05, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Uh oh, I smell another FCC fine coming....

Just got done watching last night's Jay Leno, with Motley Crue as the "musical" guest. At the end of the show, one of the band members yelled "Happy F'ing New Year!" Either the show airs without a seven second delay or the button-holder was asleep at the switch, because the F word went out loud and clear.

I don't think there's a fine for incidents after 9pm.

ND23

01-02-05, 01:06 AM

First-time user here... hope I do this right.

I'm a home theater enthusiast from the Kansas City area, and I stumbled across avsforum.com tonight while searching for help on my "situation."

(by the way, I can't believe an enthusiast like me had never found this before... I almost feel unworthy of my self-proclaimed "expert" status, but I digress)

I'm currently at my 60-year-old mother's house in Waterloo, Illinois, and I spent the majority of the day installing a new TV and A/V receiver in her home theater system in her great room (and moving the old TV and receiver to the newly finished basement). I'm comfortable enough with DirecTV, DVD players, VCRs, 5.1 surround sound systems, etc. to do all of the stuff I was able to complete today, but as we sat down to enjoy some college football in HDTV tonight - no dice.

This is the part that's new for me. I haven't yet made the plunge into HDTV back home, so I'm back in newbie land here. Mom has dropped $4000 on a new Mitsubishi 62" HDTV, and while DirecTV and DVDs look better than they did on the previous TV, I'm anxious to see what I've been reading about.

Details on the setup: the attic antenna is hooked into a patchwork of RG59 cabling and splitters to run a "just in case" signal to three TVs in the house. She uses this OTA signal when weather issues disrupt the DirecTV signal. So, I plug the RG59 coax cable into the new Mitsubishi's input "ANT-1" and I go through the setup program. We get all of the analog OTA signals (some snowier than others), but I can't figure out how to "tune in" a digital HDTV signal. I'm 95% sure I've got the right cable plugged into the right input jack.

While watching the Fiesta Bowl tonight on channel 30 (ABC), we kept getting a snowy analog picture. I don't know if the antenna isn't aimed right, or if the splitters are zapping the signal strength, or if I'm doing something wrong, or if there's something I'm supposed to do that I'm not doing. Should I be tuning into a different channel than 30 to get ABC's high-def feed?

We may try Radio Shack tomorrow to get an indoor antenna, and see if that works any better...

Back home (for non-HDTV A/V questions), I'm the guru others consult. Now I'm the one in need, and I love the concept of this forum. I'm going home to KC on Tuesday, and I was really hoping to catch a football game in HDTV before leaving. Will be checking in via Mom's (ugh) dial-up connection often.

Thanks in advance!

DroptheRemote

01-02-05, 08:11 AM

ND23,

Not sure that we'll be able to figure out what's wrong, but you've given us some good information to work with. I'll start with some of the more likely issues, and then work down through the more esoteric possibilities/remedies.

* Digital OTA Channels. I think this is a big part of your problem -- to receive HD OTA you have to tune to a separate digital OTA station, not the analog station.

While there was actually some initial discussion to "interleave" HD broadcasts into the existing analog system, broadcasters and most others involved in preparing for high-definition broadcasting lobbied for a pure, dedicated digital system. As a result, most broadcasters are currently simulcasting their programming over two separate frequencies, one with the traditional analog signal and the other with the digital/HD signal.

In the case of our local ABC affilliate (KDNL), the digital channel is located in the UHF band at channel 31, although it may appear on your television's tuner as 30-1. If you're looking at channel 30, you're looking at analog channel.

Based on my experience with the tuners in the new Mitsubishi DLP sets, the digital stations are automatically "re-mapped" to their analog number. So, local channel 30 (KDNL-ABC) is digital channel 31 and it is remapped to 30-1, local channel 4 (KMOV-CBS) is digital channel 56 and is remapped to 4-1, etc. This seems to work correctly on these sets for all channels apart from KTVI-FOX channel 2, whose digital broadcast is on UHF channel 43 but on the Mits sets I've seen, it does not re-map correctly so you have to tune to 43 directly.

If you're tuned to channel 30 when you're trying for ABC digital, hit the "channel up" button one time, and the TV should tune to 30-1.

There's a complete listing of St. Louis channels in the message link below. I'd suggest that when you have time, you also read the message before it and the one after it, too, as there's additional information in those messages that will probably prove helpful to you and your mother.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2995718#post2995718

* When you do the channel scan on the Mitsubishi, it scans for analog channels first and then starts over again to do the digital channels. I've seen where some of my customers have stopped the scan once it completes the analog portion and then they don't get any digital stations. So, it might be worth re-scanning the channels.

* Also, a week ago I helped one of my customers set up his Mits DLP for the digital channels and then a day later he called me to tell me that they had all disappeared. After checking the obvious stuff (antenna connected, antenna correctly aimed, etc), I suggested that he unplug the television for 15 minutes, plug it back in and do a re-scan. As it happened, that did the trick and all his digital stations were restored. Not exactly sure why this happened, but it sometimes occurs with satellite tuners and the same glitch appears to be relevant with some of the built-in OTA tuners. However, this is the first time I've heard of this happening with a Mits DLP.

* Your cabling may be an issue. RG-6 quad-shield coax is recommended for antenna runs. While your mother's RG-59 might be OK, the RG-6 is a better bet for insuring the signal is maintained over long runs and against outside interference.

* Aiming of the antenna is critical, though I would expect that in Waterloo that you have a fairly large margin for error, as you're probably 35 to 40 miles from the cluster of transmission towers for St. Louis stations.

In the links I referenced above, there is a downloadable map that shows the location of all the St. Louis TV towers. Have a look at this and doublecheck to see that your antenna is aimed correctly.

* A UHF-only antenna will do a better job of pulling in the digital channels, because all of the St. Louis digital locals are in the UHF band. Again, a combo VHF-UHF antenna might work, but if the other suggestions here don't yield the desired results, that might be another thing to consider.

* If you can't easily get to the antenna, or deal with the cabling issue on this visit, another thing you may want to try is an indoor UHF antenna. The Zenith Silver Sensor that is mentioned in the provided links works well in many situations and my guess is that it should work for you in Waterloo. According to recent posts here, this antenna can be found at many Sears and Best Buy stores and can usually be returned for a refund if you aren't successful with it. This might be a short-term solution for you.

I hope these suggestions help you with your problem. If not, feel free to post a follow-up question, or to call me on my cell phone at (314) 495-2993.

Robert Simandl

01-02-05, 09:09 AM

One more thing to add to Doug's answer, are you sure that Mitsubishi HDTV actually has an HD tuner? A lot (most, actually) of them don't.

Most HDTV sets sold today are "HDTV monitors" or "HDTV ready," meaning an external HD tuner is required.

If this is the case for your Mom, just call DirecTV and ask what kind of a deal you can get on a Hughes HTL-HD receiver and the oval dish. It will replace the standard DirecTV box she already has and pick up DirecTV signals (regular and HD) and also pick up over the air signals (regular and HD). And it will put them all into one program guide for her.

If that Mitsu does have an HD tuner built in, feel free to ignore this post. :D

DroptheRemote

01-02-05, 09:53 AM

Robert,

That's a good point and one that I hadn't thought about. However, all of the Mits DLPs are HDTV-Integrated sets.

Also, I overlooked a question from ND23, specifically about the two antenna inputs. I believe that on some of these Mits DLP models, the digital tuner works on both antenna inputs, but I think on some others (the 525s?) the second antenna input is available only for analog.

FWIW -- Based on ND23's description of the TV as a 62-inch set, I've assumed this is a DLP. None of the CRT sets come in that size.

fireshoes

01-02-05, 10:55 AM

I don't think it's out yet, but Mitsubishi is coming out with an HD-ready DLP (the 327 series). I have no idea why at this point. It will also be sans glare-shield.

homer1

01-02-05, 11:14 AM

Liveing 75 miles east of St Louis, what should I get for an antenna. Or is it out of range. Most ant. I see advertise 60 mi limits..

DroptheRemote

01-02-05, 11:14 AM

fireshoes,

I hadn't heard about the tunerless Mits DLPs. They're not shown at the moment on its web site, but it makes sense that Mitsubishi would want to produce some HD-ready DLP sets.

I read a few months ago that the television manufacturers were increasingly unhappy about the HD tuner mandate, because customers have been routinely opting for tunerless sets in order to keep down the out-of-pocket hit. There was some talk that the Consumer Electronics Association might approach the FCC to see if the schedule for rolling out integrated sets could be relaxed.

FWIW, I think the tuner mandate was a completely gutless and "brain dead" FCC decision, when less than one household out of four receives programming via OTA. And the consumer behavior now that HDTV-integrated sets are readily available reinforces that conclusion. Of course, it's much easier for Congress/the FCC to pick on the (largely non-US) equipment manufacturers than go toe to toe with either the National Association of Broadcasters or the National Cable Telecommunications Association, both of which have a much greater potential influence over the transition to digital broadcasting.

DroptheRemote

01-02-05, 11:29 AM

homer,

I think it's likely that you're in a fringe area. Most of the antenna ratings I see top out at 60 miles. You might get one that carries the max rating and see what you can pick up. One thing that will probably work in your favor is that there probably aren't that many topographical issues for your location.

Another possibility is to consider whether you might qualify for "out of market" stations via one of the satellite services. This is still a very gray area, but a recently passed law is designed to make it easier for consumers to gain access to HD programming where reception is unavailable or where local stations aren't providing a digital signal yet. How that actually plays out in practice, however, is a question mark at this point.

MoxiGuy

01-02-05, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by jedi35
When will this update be available? Any chance of adding firewire, or dvi capability? Can't give you a firm date on 3.2. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4885322#post4885322) for more info. DVI will be added as part of a software update. Firewire, however, requires new hardware--a firewire port needs to be added to the box--as well as software support. Motorola is planning to make firewire-enabled versions of BMC9012 available this summer.

fireshoes

01-02-05, 01:07 PM

Rams are up in HD on KMOV. Happy that they are not asleep at the wheel with the big game this weekend!

abcward

01-02-05, 01:43 PM

Allow me to vent on CBS-HD. I too am watching the Rams game...

1) Their pregame show and their goofy picture zoom is irritating at best. Does anyone there actually have a widescreen HD monitor? Because they obviously arent watching their own shows to see how horrible it looks.

2) The game itself in HD is beautiful...except for their embarassing amount of graphics they plaster everywhere, like an urban graffiti covered warehouse.

3) Is it me or have their been an insane amount of commercial breaks during this first quarter? I feel like i've watched about 7 seconds of gameplay compared to an hour of commercial whoring. Quick question: if you subsribe to Sunday Ticket are you basically getting the commercial feed from another city?

GO RAMS

homer1

01-02-05, 01:51 PM

If a regular vhf antenna can recieve 2,4,5,11, etc out of St Louis, will I be able to get the HD signal via uhf antenna? Right now I draw my locals from the satellite. I just upgraded the box to HD, so I want to get any and all hd signals I can get my little eyeballs on.

Thanks for response, not meaning to hijack the thread which is one of the longest I ever seen...

DroptheRemote

01-02-05, 02:05 PM

homer,

I'm not sure what your question is.

If your antenna is just VHF, you're probably not going to have much luck in getting the HD channels, which all are located in the UHF band. You need an UHF antenna to reliably receive the UHF channels.

On the other hand, if you're asking whether VHF reception of the analog locals proves whether you can receive the digital locals, the answer is probably but nothing's certain until you try it.

You might find more information in the links that I included earlier today in my response to ND23.

fireshoes

01-02-05, 02:10 PM

I'm actually a little disappointed with the picture quality of the Rams game today. The detail okay, but the colors seem a bit diluted compared to the other HD games on Sunday Ticket.

jedi35

01-02-05, 02:59 PM

Moxiguy thanks for those answers. That's just what I wanted to hear. My Moxi install is coming up on Jan.11, and I've asked to keep my regular hd box so that I can still archive to dvhs via firewire. It looks like this summer I'll be able to give the first hd box back(and get it off the bill). Or, I might just wind up with 2 Moxi boxes to give me more HD recording space.

dweebe

01-02-05, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by fireshoes
I'm actually a little disappointed with the picture quality of the Rams game today. The detail okay, but the colors seem a bit diluted compared to the other HD games on Sunday Ticket.

I think its because the game is in the Ed Jones Dome. Colors seem to "pop" more outdoors in the daylight. The lighting at the Dome just isn't very good for HD.

DroptheRemote

01-02-05, 05:38 PM

fireshoes,

FWIW, I watched some of the first half of the Rams game in HD and the color looked fine to me.

I'm not sure how to explain the difference between what you were seeing with Sunday Ticket and KMOV-DT, as I don't have ST. But based on what I saw of KMOV-DT on my own set, I don't think there was any issue with the local broadcast.

Kurt K

01-02-05, 06:24 PM

Just like in previous weeks, I'm getting a lot of pixelization problems with the OTA feed of FOX. I even had some sound drop-out problems this week.

The national feed on D* (ch 88) seems fine, although the picture doesn't seems as crisp as the OTA signal.

rbkb

01-02-05, 07:58 PM

Since I didn't get my wish for Christmas, maybe it is time just to start praying...

PLEASE, CABLE GOD, GIVE US KDNL ON CHARTER BY SATURDAY!!! It would be nice to see the Rams in HD for the playoffs...oh yeah, and it is not too much, include ESPN2 HD while you are at it (since ESPN has transfered all HD basketball games to the deuce-good marketing strategy!)

abcward

01-02-05, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by rbkb
Since I didn't get my wish for Christmas, maybe it is time just to start praying...

PLEASE, CABLE GOD, GIVE US KDNL ON CHARTER BY SATURDAY!!! It would be nice to see the Rams in HD for the playoffs...oh yeah, and it is not too much, include ESPN2 HD while you are at it (since ESPN has transfered all HD basketball games to the deuce-good marketing strategy!)

Thanks for the belly laugh....I needed that

:D :D :D

Robert Simandl

01-02-05, 08:51 PM

While we're talking about Christmas presents, I'd like Salma Hayak under my tree wearing nothing but a bow. :D

tcfila

01-02-05, 09:18 PM

Did anyone notice that during the Rams game that the first down yellow line wasn't on as well as on field graphics? I thought they just didn't do it, until they started talking about the line to get to for the kickers. I thougth what line, then switched to channel 4 and saw them. Am I crazy or did someone else notice?

Tim

ND23

01-02-05, 09:47 PM

Special thanks to DroptheRemote, Robert Simandl, and fireshoes for responding to and discussing the issue I'm having, I appreciate the assistance!

I see that a few more specifics would have been in order (newbie lesson #1 learned!):

1. The Mitsubishi HDTV model number is WD-62525, which is a 62" DLP set with a built-in HDTV tuner.

2. When I went through the TV's setup program, it was just as described by DroptheRemote... the TV scanned for analog channels first, then started over to scan for digital channels. I plan on attempting this again, so I can pay attention to the digital channel memorization process and see if any are added. If none are, I'll manually add them using the channel number information provided in the link from DroptheRemote.

I did download the maps of the HD tower locations in St. Louis, and I was encouraged to find most are right across the river from the Waterloo/Columbia (Illinois) area.

Today, I made up for yesterday's ignore-the-family-and-play-with-technology day, as we went to downtown St. Louis to visit the City Museum (really cool by the way - the kids had a blast, and so did I, even though my brother-in-law and I were tempted to stroll down Washington Avenue to the Dome). So, no football for me today, but I'll try again tomorrow night.

Tonight I'll try some of the suggestions posted in your replies (use channels 26,31,35,39,43,47,56; aim the antenna toward the towers). I'll certainly log back on to let you know how things went.

Thanks again!

StLouG

01-02-05, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by tcfila
Did anyone notice that during the Rams game that the first down yellow line wasn't on as well as on field graphics? I thought they just didn't do it, until they started talking about the line to get to for the kickers. I thougth what line, then switched to channel 4 and saw them. Am I crazy or did someone else notice?

Tim

Tim thanks a lot I thought I was going nuts because I didn't see any kicking lines either. Maybe I am too new to HD but I thought the picture was great and I am using Charter. On another note did anyone see our field's crooked goal line? The announcers said it was it was because of the poor quality of the field. The Rams are on KDNL next week?

tcfila

01-02-05, 10:20 PM

I spoke with a Charter CSR today regarding VOD on the Moxi. He said Jan 15th they are pushing a major update which will include VOD. They also said they were going to be adding a "few" HD channels including Discovery in the next month or so. I won't hold my breath...

abcward

01-02-05, 10:28 PM

tcfila,

I have heard the same thing on additional HD channels coming soon. Starz-HD, Cinemax-HD, TNT-HD and one/two more.

Toeside

01-03-05, 12:40 AM

Re: lines on the football game.

Usually the line of scrimage is red, and the first down line is yellow. I only saw one line today, and it was red and it was the first down line.

I thought that was odd. Or, am I imagining things?

moman19

01-03-05, 08:37 AM

Probably a Fox Vs. CBS thing. We're all used to seeing the Rams on Fox. CBS seemed a bit sloppy by comparison, although the picture quality was excellent.

DroptheRemote

01-03-05, 08:39 AM

The following is an excerpt of an article written by Phillip Swann of TVpredictions.com. Swann has written a series of 40 articles, with each focused on a prediction for the television industry in 2005.

Bear in mind the story about DVRs is a PREDICTION, not a product announcement. Unless you're a glutton for punishment, there's no point in calling Charter to ask about their free MOXI service... :)
___________________________________

...I predict that in 2005 that both satellite and cable operators will offer free Digital Video Recording services as part of their overall programming packages. The free service will likely be launched during the fourth quarter of the year in anticipation of the holidays.

DIRECTV, which is now owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., will likely kick off the free DVR campaign. The satcaster, which now sells a TiVo-DIRECTV set-top, is expected to add a no-frills DVR service called NDS, which is also owned by News Corp. This will permit DIRECTV to offer their customers two DVR options:

1. TiVo (The full-service DVR, which will require a monthly subscription fee.)

2. NDS (The basic DVR, which will not require a monthly fee. However, DIRECTV will likely require NDS customers to purchase a one-year programming package to get the free service -- and they will still need to buy the DIRECTV-NDS receiver.)

___________________________________

The full story can be read at:
http://www.tvpredictions.com/freedvr122004.html

For the entire series of 2005 Predictions, go to:
http://www.tvpredictions.com/predictions.html

DroptheRemote

01-03-05, 08:52 AM

ND23.

There was really no problem with your original message -- you provided all the needed info to get you pointed in the correct general direction. Definitely let us know if you have any success or if there's a way to narrow down the issues you're having.

Also, on the Mits channel-scanning process, I haven't been able to manually add a channel that wasn't scanned, but I'm not sure why. Also, with the customer I mentioned previously, he had two antennae, one in the attic and one indoor. He was only able to get KDNL-ABC on the attic antenna, but we were able to receive every channel EXCEPT KDNL-ABC using the Silver Sensor. I suspect that the attic antenna problem was that it needed to be re-aimed, but it wasn't easily accessible and therefore re-aiming is only a theory. But the strange thing was that I wasn't able to manually add KDNL-ABC (31) for the second (indoor) antenna using the Mitsubishi interface.

In the end, this wasn't a big deal, as I set the customer up by making all of the channels available through the SQV button on the remote control -- this allows the user to toggle through all of the stored OTA channels without manually switching from Ant 1 to Ant 2. I think you'll be able to figure out how to set up the SQV groups if this is necessary, but if not, it's pretty well-documented in the owner's manual.

Happy hunting...

jedi35

01-03-05, 09:06 PM

46-1 is teasing me again. I was channel flipping yesterday, and Bam...there was UPN digital. It's still here today, but I know from experience to not get my Enterprise recording finger ready just yet. Is anyone else out here by the airport? Are you or are you not getting 46-1? More later...

ND23

01-03-05, 09:48 PM

Well, we went into the attic today, and the antenna up there was aimed due East. We swiveled it around to the West, and a bit North, and we were able to bring in 30-1. So, right now, we're watching the bowl game in HDTV, and thanks to the digital coaxial cable running from the Mitsubishi TV to the A/V receiver, we're listening to it in Dolby Digital. We also had some luck getting the digital UPN station, but nothing else. All of the analog stations came in better, but no success getting NBC, CBS, or Fox digital signals. Maybe the indoor antenna will be a future gift for Mom.

Thanks again for the advice!
ND23

DroptheRemote

01-04-05, 09:09 AM

ND23,

It's definitely strange that you can get both KDNL (31) and WRBU (47), but not the others. As you can see from looking at the map, the other towers are positioned in between the KDNL and WRBU towers, so logically you should be getting those channels if you're getting the stations that are at the extreme ends of the tower cluster.

Unfortunately logic doesn't always apply to OTA reception.

You probably already tried this, but it might be worth unplugging the set for 15 minutes and then do a fresh scan for your antenna input. If that doesn't work, it sounds like a second (indoor) antenna would be the thing to try on your next visit.

Anyway, I'm glad that you managed to see some HD while you were here. What did you think? Was it worth the hassle?

FWIW, channel 47 (WRBU) doesn't provide any HD programming, so if you had to make a compromise to receive the other stations, the loss of WRBU wouldn't be a big deal -- unless your mom's a closet Trekkie... :)

GlendaleHDTV

01-04-05, 01:59 PM

Just saw my latest bill from Charter. It contained the following message:

HDTV services will remain at the same great value of $9.95. After January 15th, the cost of your HDTV receiver will increase from $3.85 to $6.85 while the HDTV Integrated Interactive Services fee will reduce from $5.99 to $2.99. The remote control remains at $0.11. (This modification will slightly impact your salestax base, but not the total price.)

The price for your HD/DVR Service remains at $16.94. For your information, after January 15th, the cost of your HDTV/DVR receiver will increase from $3.85 to $6.85. At the same time, the DVR Service will reduce from $9.99 to $6.99 leaving you with the SAME overall price. The Integrated Interactive Service fee will remain at $2.99 along with the remote control at $0.11. This will slightly impact your sales tax on the rental of equipment.

Now, I'm not sure what any of that means since my current bill shows 9.99 for "DVR service", 3.00 for "HD Integrated Interactive Service", and 3.99 for "HDPAK w/HDNET", but I thought some might find it interesting. :rolleyes:

I think the end result is that I will still pay $16.98 (or 16.94 using Charter's "new math") for my HD and Moxi, but it will be allocated differently and may cause a slight change in the sales tax I am paying.

tcfila

01-04-05, 02:17 PM

I saw that too, but didn't comment as it confused the hell out of me

DroptheRemote

01-04-05, 02:34 PM

As regards Charter's billing detail gymnastics, the phrase "re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titantic" comes to mind... :)

RaceTripper

01-04-05, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by tcfila
I saw that too, but didn't comment as it confused the hell out of me

They are competing with the telcos now, so I guess that includes confusing billing details in addition to services.

DroptheRemote

01-04-05, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by dwette
They are competing with the telcos now, so I guess that includes confusing billing details in addition to services.
Q: What do you get when you cross the cable company with the telephone company?

A: I don't know, but I'm thinking that buying a large jar of Vaseline might be a good idea.

tcfila

01-04-05, 06:37 PM

Classic Doug.....

jedi35

01-04-05, 06:53 PM

Come on, Doug......admit it. You are a closet Charterholic posing as yourself, right!?!. Actually, I don't blame you one bit.

DroptheRemote

01-04-05, 09:25 PM

OK -- my little (emphasis on little) joke was directed at cable companies generically, not Charter specifically. I've actually been a customer of AT&T, TCI, Time-Warner, and Cablevision in various cities in the US and a few others overseas. So, it's not just about Charter.

And I do appreciate that my beating on Charter probably gets tiresome, and I do try to bite my tongue (or keyboard), but sometimes it's hard to hold back.

I'd make it a New Year's resolution to exercise more self-control, but my track record on resolutions would probably mean it only gets worse... :)

tcfila

01-04-05, 09:48 PM

Please don't stop...Its nice to have a good laugh every now and then, plus then I don't have to bash them

rbkb

01-04-05, 10:18 PM

I'm still waiting for my KDNL HD channel on Charter for Saturday...

StLouG

01-04-05, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by rbkb
I'm still waiting for my KDNL HD channel on Charter for Saturday...

Another good laugh. This place is turning into Comedy Central :)

Scott Tucker

01-05-05, 01:14 AM

I'll admit it. I hate cable. However, i am going to start working from home, and require broadband. I have dsl, but i want to keep my work and home service completely separate, so i thought i'll give Charter a try.

Guy comes out to install the cable the other day, and tells me he has to put the box on the side of the house where the electric box is, so he can ground it. No big deal except that my home run is in the basement on the other side of the house where my satellite, phone, gas and water enter the basement. Can't really get cable from where he wanted to put it to the home run, so he said he would run it around the outside of the house and in where i wanted it. I didn't really see the point in all the extra wire, so i said why not just put it where i want it and ground it to the cold water like the phone co. did? He said he couldn't do it without a supervisors permission, and that is not how they usually do things. I said "what if i pound a copper grounding rod into the ground on the side of the house where I want to enter?" He said I would have to talk to a supervisor and left.
A supervisor called me, and i told her what i wanted to do, and she asked me if that would be OK. I'm thinking isn't she supposed to decide if thats ok?
Finally told her if they want my business they will have to put their box where i want it. She told me they would get back to me, and i haven't heard back since.
Now i see why i quit cable over 10 years ago. No wonder they are in such trouble. I will gladly continue to pay in excess of $160/mo. for phone,dtv and dsl from other sources when i know i can get it all for a lot less from Charter. Oh, and thanks for making me take a vacation day waiting around for your guy to come out and do nothing. I hate Cable.

Rant over.

Scott

Scott

jedi35

01-05-05, 03:52 AM

Oh Doug, by all means, it's quite entertaining to read your Charter, I mean cable bashing comments. I wasn't criticizing you at all. I just figured that since others pick at you about it, I would join the fun(at your expense, I'm sorry). I think that you're absolutely right on target, and we all need a good laugh every now and then.

RaceTripper

01-05-05, 07:09 AM

After my experiences with cable in the city I welcome cable bashing anytime.

I once had it so bad with TCI I had to lodge official complaints with the City of St. Louis and it took city inspectors to force TCI to rewire the entire high-rise I lived in. The level of incompetence in the cable company was unbelievable. Before that I lived in Clayton (can't remember the cable company) and anytime it rained cable went out completely.

Once we bought our own home we switched to satellite and have never looked back. The only problem I've had with D* in 6 years of use is that it took them 2 tries to replace a HD STB, but they did it quickly and cheaply.

Dean

Kurt K

01-05-05, 07:55 AM

Part of me is happy that the Rams squeaked into the playoffs, but the HD Leno loving part of me wishes they didn't. Don't get me wrong, I will enjoy watching the game on Saturday in HD, but I'm missing HD Leno. And apparently, I will be missing HD Leno until the Rams are no long in the Playoffs, since KSDK says they will be running "Rams Plus" nightly after the news, until the Rams are out of it.

I know it's a little late for Christmas, but can someone get the local networks some HD delay capabilities? While you're at it, can you get me DSL at my house (currently not available) so I don't have to pay the $10 increase for Cable Broadband later this month?

DroptheRemote

01-05-05, 09:30 AM

According to reliable sources within the local broadcast community, KSDK has for some time had the equipment necessary to time-delay HD programming, but either chooses not to use it, or more likely (and I'm basing this assessment on their demonstrated "switch-flipping" incompetence) don't know how to use it.

Kurt, I also feel your pain on Charter Pipeline, even though I'm avoiding the $10 surcharge, because I've got analog cable as a backup to the satellite. My problem is that every time it rains moderately hard here, my Pipeline service is guaranteed to go down for a few hours. In fact, it went down this morning while I was in the middle of writing a long note on AVS, and the note was lost in the bargain. And it only makes me madder when I think about those Charter commercials that blast satellite for rainy day problems.

Robert Simandl

01-05-05, 09:41 AM

If anyone from KSDK is watching this thread, I hereby volunteer to read the manual for your equipment to time-delay HD programming and teach the rest of you how to use it. :D:D:D

I do have experience in this area, as there are several members where I work that seem to think I personally am the entire Hewlett-Packard AND Toshiba tech support departments. :D

</sarcasm done>

abcward

01-05-05, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
According to reliable sources within the local broadcast community, KSDK has for some time had the equipment necessary to time-delay HD programming, but either chooses not to use it, or more likely (and I'm basing this assessment on their demonstrated "switch-flipping" incompetence) don't know how to use it.

Kurt, I also feel your pain on Charter Pipeline, even though I'm avoiding the $10 surcharge, because I've got analog cable as a backup to the satellite. My problem is that every time it rains moderately hard here, my Pipeline service is guaranteed to go down for a few hours. In fact, it went down this morning while I was in the middle of writing a long note on AVS, and the note was lost in the bargain. And it only makes me madder when I think about those Charter commercials that blast satellite for rainy day problems.

I understand your frustration Doug, but your issue is not a Charter-wide issue. No matter what the weather is, my Charter Broadband never goes down. We all have complaints about Charter, but personally their broadband service is one service that I can never say a bad word about.

Hey, I am the first person to complain loudly when I feel I am wronged. I just want to make sure that I also praise just as vocally when I receive good service.

Contempting Building an Ark,
Bruce

hall316

01-05-05, 12:07 PM

Well my DTV contract is up today. Don't really know what I want to do. Would love to switch to Voom for 6 months and try them out, but the wife will not put up with not having dvr options. I could try the charter route, but we tape a lot fo stuff on 2,4,5 and 30 and I'ver read on her that the locals and the rest of the sd channels look horrible through this. I'm sure i will end up sticking with what I have and just not worry about haven't a contract with them anymore.

tcfila

01-05-05, 12:13 PM

I agree with Bruce. I have never lost broadband or phone from weather. I very rarely have problems with cable and weather, unless there is alot of lightning.

Tim

abcward

01-05-05, 12:49 PM

EchoStar ups rates
Satellite-TV provider increasing packages by $2-$4 per month

By Chris Walsh, Rocky Mountain News
January 5, 2005

EchoStar Communications Corp. will raise monthly rates for its most popular satellite-TV packages by $2 to $4 beginning in February, the company's fifth increase in the past five years.

Douglas County-based EchoStar's 10.4 million Dish Network subscribers - including an estimated 200,000-plus in Colorado - will see their bills rise by an average 4.3 percent, a company spokesman said Tuesday.

The satellite-television provider plans to mail letters this week detailing the rate changes to customers.

Starting Feb. 1, one of EchoStar's most popular programming packages - America's Top 60 - will increase by $2 a month. The company's Top 120 and Top 180 packages each will rise $3 a month, while EchoStar's larger America's Everything bundle of channels will jump by $4. Rates for pay-per-view programming, the Dish Latino package and individual premium channels such as HBO will remain unchanged.

EchoStar said the increases primarily reflect rocketing fees to get its programming, particularly for sports channels like ESPN.

"Our programming costs have gone up . . . about 7 percent over the last year," said EchoStar spokesman Steve Caulk. "That represents a big part of our expenses."

EchoStar and DirecTV have built a name as low-cost alternatives to cable providers. EchoStar waged high-profile battles last year with programming giants Viacom Inc. and Turner Broadcasting System Inc., in part, to keep costs down. But, in the letter explaining its rate increases to customers, EchoStar said it "simply cannot offset" the increasing costs.

In addition to ballooning programming fees, EchoStar also must comply with new federal regulations making the company provide all local channels available on one dish. To do that, EchoStar will have to spend an estimated $100 million to juggle satellite capacity, provide some customers with a second satellite dish and send out technicians to install those antennas.

EchoStar's hikes represent about 4.3 percent of the roughly $56 the average customer spends monthly on Dish services. When factoring just the average price increase for the programming packages, EchoStar's hikes equal a 6.6 percent spike.

EchoStar and DirecTV have kept rate increases under control for the past decade while their cable competitors hike prices every year.

But the satellite industry is raising rates more frequently. EchoStar, for instance, didn't hike prices from 1996 until 2001 but has done so annually since then. DirecTV plans to lift prices this year as well, but won't release further details until later this quarter.

"Cable provides an umbrella for them," said Bill Jacobs, an analyst for Harris & Associates in Chicago. "As long as cable does, satellite will also. It would be a mistake for the satellite guys not to raise rates from a strategic point of view if cable's doing it."

EchoStar said its hikes are much lower than cable. Comcast has raised rates an average of 6 percent in some areas this year, although the company hasn't announced one in Denver.

"Our rate increases have been infrequent and at lower percentages than what cable has done," said Mark Lumpkin, an EchoStar spokesman. EchoStar also still has the lowest price for an all-digital programming package among its competitors, Lumpkin said.

Still, consumers should get used to the frequent price increases, from both cable and satellite.

"I think you're going to see this for awhile, at least until we see another form of competition come in," analyst Jacobs said. "This is how it's going to be for the next five years."

Satellite rates going up

EchoStar will increase monthly for most of its programming packages:

• America's Top 60, without local channels: up $2 a month, to $26.99.

• America's Top 60, with local channels: up $2 a month, to $31.99.

• America's Top 120, with local channels: up $3 a month, to $42.99

• America's Top 180, with local channels: up $3 a month, to $52.99

• America's Everything, with local channels: up $4 a month, to $86.99.Source: Echostar

EchoStar increases

• 2001: 10 percent
• 2002: 3 percent
• 2003: 4 percent
• 2004: 1.7 percent
• *2005: 4.3 percent

* effective Feb. 1

source: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_3446037,00.html

DroptheRemote

01-05-05, 01:07 PM

hall,

In terms of taping, you could go with the Charter/MOXI and just record the HD channels for 2, 4 and 5 , though 30 would suffer from the analog conversion degradation until the digital version of KDNL is added.

But it sounds like like Charter/MOXI would actually meet the majority of your needs, assuming you don't have a big problem in leaving Discovery and Universal HD behind...

jedi35

01-05-05, 08:55 PM

Just wanted to add that my cable services have been very consistent as well. I don't get rain dropouts or anything for cable watching or pipeline. I do, however, get freezes every now and then while watching a digital or hd channel, and that bugs me. The freezes only last a few seconds, and may happen again the next hour or not at all for several days. It's happening less and less, but it pisses me off each time I see it regardless.

DroptheRemote

01-05-05, 09:37 PM

Headline says it all.

FWIW, Adelphia Cable has also announced it will have ESPN2HD at launch.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=491650

DroptheRemote

01-05-05, 09:48 PM

I've seen that Charter Pipeline gets pretty good marks from most customers, but my experience has been frustrating.

I used to think the outages were random, but the last three times it's rained hard, my Pipeline was AWOL for hours afterward. I assume that there's some sort of local distribution problem that causes that, but Charter seems completely oblivious to it.

I also recently lost Pipeline for 12 hours, because (I was told by the tech) that Charter upgraded some network equipment and my cable modem wasn't on the automatic provisioning list.

Nice work, guys.

Maybe I've brought this on myself... :rolleyes:

Kurt K

01-05-05, 11:34 PM

Not that I have had recent experience with cable (except pipeline), but I remember when my parents had cable. Every time it rained for any length of time, the cable would go out. My mom would only pay for the days that they had cable service. She eventually got tired of dealing with customer service and cancelled service. My parents have been on D* ever since.

Oh yippee, another segment of Rams Plus -- bracing myself for another HD Leno disappointment.

Robert Simandl

01-05-05, 11:34 PM

Does ESPN really have enough HD programming to fill two channels????????

Hell, do they have enough HD programming to fill ONE channel??????

I would think they'd be better off doing something like Universal HD is doing with content from USA, Sci-Fi, and stuff like that.

But then I guess if ESPN went that route, they wouldn't be able to charge for two HD channels, would they?

BTW, who else watched ALIAS tonight? AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!! In one episode, they've completely rejuvenated the entire series!

abcward

01-05-05, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Does ESPN really have enough HD programming to fill two channels????????

Hell, do they have enough HD programming to fill ONE channel??????

I would think they'd be better off doing something like Universal HD is doing with content from USA, Sci-Fi, and stuff like that.

But then I guess if ESPN went that route, they wouldn't be able to charge for two HD channels, would they?

True, ESPN doesn't broadcast HD content 24x7, but I will never complain in getting more HD. IMHO, sports is the best genre to watch in HD. So having one game in HD on ESPN, and another game in HD on ESPN2 allows me the option to chose which one I want to watch.

More HD sports?? Hell yea!

DroptheRemote

01-06-05, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Does ESPN really have enough HD programming to fill two channels????????

Hell, do they have enough HD programming to fill ONE channel??????

They're planning on 80+ HD "events" in the first 80 or so days of ESPN2HD, so there's definitely an increase in HD over what they could manage with a single station. The main thing is that they'll be able to provide two simultaneous HD broadcasts and this will prove more useful over time.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index#espn2

redwine

01-06-05, 12:04 AM

Has anyone switched to VOOM? I know we have all talked about it but Jedi is the only one I know who has it? Too much uncertainty? ....yep

Scott Tucker

01-06-05, 12:53 AM

I'm gonna start working from home, so i tried the charter thing and they couldn't even get the install done. So, today i go to a furniture store in Chesterfield to buy a couple of desks. One for me and one for my wife. Oh, and i thought why not buy a bedroom suite since i'm doing the no down, no interest thing for 2 years. I fill out the financing application, and get access to 8k. Salesperson rings up the sale, and then wants me to put 1/3 down payment. I said what the fu@k do i need financing for if i'm gonna pay for 1/3 now? I thought OK i'll play the game. I offered to give them the down payment on my debit card, and when the furniture comes I asked if they could credit my debit card back and put the whole balance on the no interest financing. The manager says no! What is the retail world coming to? Man i was so pissed, i thanked the salesman for his time, apologized and walked out. Why do they spend a fortune on advertising to get me into the store, and then when i agree to buy at the marked price without haggling, pull that kind of stuff? Now all i will do is go down the street to their competitor and buy it. Maybe they will be willing to take my money. Maybe working from home is not such a good idea. Wow 2 rants in 2 days. Sorry.

Scott

hall316

01-06-05, 01:44 AM

I'm going to have to see how many shows I watch on 30 that are HD that I would miss. I mean I could still leave my DTV HD box hooked up for OTA hd for 30. I think I'm going to call Charter tomorrow to see what it would end up costing me for the same stuff I get with DTV now. I will miss Discovery HD, but that's about it. I wish Voom would just get the dvr going.

wilkemp

01-06-05, 09:34 AM

Off Topic, anyone on the forum planning to go to the fight Feb. 5th?
I believe it also should be in HD on Showtime.

DroptheRemote

01-06-05, 10:05 AM

Scott,

Sorry to hear about all the problems that you're having in getting your home office set up. But, no doubt, the effort will be worth it once you've successfully zigzagged your way through the obstacle course.

Working from home is the best.

I'd suggest that the best way to deal with bait-and-switch retailers is to publicly "out" them. No need to keep this confidential -- if they tried to screw you over, let everyone here know who it was, so that no one else wastes their time on them. Knowing the salesperson's first name would be worthwhile, too.

Hope the rest of your home office shopping goes better from here on out...

DroptheRemote

01-06-05, 11:21 AM

The following is a CES report from CNET.

During its existence, TiVo has done a pretty skillful job avoiding the wrath of Hollywood, but I think the gloves are coming off now...

_______________________________

Gates touts TiVo deal at CES

By David Becker
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

LAS VEGAS--Delivering the first keynote at the Consumer Electronics Show, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates touted a partnership with TiVo during what was mainly a state of the union address on Microsoft's digital media strategy.

The television recording pioneer has enlisted Microsoft in its new TiVoToGo effort to offer mobile versions of TiVo-recorded programs. The service will allow owners of recent-vintage TiVo boxes to transfer programs to a Windows XP PC, from which the programs can in turn be shuttled to Microsoft-powered portable devices, such as Portable Media Center video gadgets and Smartphone mobile phones.
_______________________________

For the full story, go to:

http://news.com.com/Gates+touts+TiVo+deal+at+CES/2100-1040_3-5514117.html?tag=nl

abcward

01-06-05, 11:28 AM

Doug,

I'm curious why you said "good news/bad news" on the Tivo/MS marriage. I would appreciate any thoughts you may have on this.

Bruce

Robert Simandl

01-06-05, 11:36 AM

I'll bet one area of the bad news will be DirecTV not enabling this feature on the "DirecTV DVR with Tivo" units. :(

DroptheRemote

01-06-05, 11:40 AM

Bruce,

I put "bad news" there, largely because I know that a lot of people have a strong (sometimes irrational) hatred for all things Microsoft. I haven't seen a lot of that here, but it does pop up from time to time. So, I figured that anyone with less-than warm/fuzzy feelings for Microsoft would likely see this as "a bad thing."

For the record, I'm not one of those Microsoft bashers -- the whole idea of the OS Wars seems decidedly "last millenium" to me.

But I also think there's a seed being planted here -- this alliance might be a precursor to TiVo being absorbed by Microsoft at some point. I think TiVo has a rough road ahead because there's nothing particularly unique or proprietary about the product they provide, and the relationship at the center of one of their key sources of revenue (DirecTV) is likely to change dramatically in the next 12 months.

Also, I can't imagine that the Microsoft alliance with TiVo is going to produce any serious revenue for either company in the next 12 months, yet there's TiVo being mentioned prominently in the most high-profile speech Bill Gates gives each year.

So, I think it's reasonable to view this as a first step toward some possible bigger deal. And that might be good news, or it might not.

hall316

01-06-05, 12:20 PM

Voom is going to have the great vaporware I mean dvr at the show as well. 1q is when it might come out so that means another year I'm sure.

abcward

01-06-05, 12:32 PM

Will Voom even be in existence in 2006?

hall316

01-06-05, 12:34 PM

I think so, under a new name of Dish Network

Robert Simandl

01-06-05, 01:12 PM

Eventually buying up Tivo would definitely be part of Microsoft's M.O. Several years back when they decided Microsoft Money wasn't going to displace Intuit's Quicken finance software, Microsoft tried to buy Intuit. The Justice Department deepsixed that idea if I remember correctly.

A few years back, Microsoft also had a PVR service called Ultimate TV that tried to compete directly with the DirecTivos. Didn't last long.

I'll bet Microsoft tenders an offer for Tivo by the end of the year.

Scott Tucker

01-06-05, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Scott,

Sorry to hear about all the problems that you're having in getting your home office set up. But, no doubt, the effort will be worth it once you've successfully zigzagged your way through the obstacle course.

Working from home is the best.

I'd suggest that the best way to deal with bait-and-switch retailers is to publicly "out" them. No need to keep this confidential -- if they tried to screw you over, let everyone here know who it was, so that no one else wastes their time on them. Knowing the salesperson's first name would be worthwhile, too.

Hope the rest of your home office shopping goes better from here on out...

Thanks for the empathy Doug. The store is Debasio. I don't want to say who the salesperson is as he is a friend of mine, and I really don't think he was behind it. The problem was the manager who obviously has no clue.

The reason i am so mad is that i spent so many years in the retail world in both sales and management that i know they should have taken the deal. Especially at full mark up. I feel bad for the owners of stores who hire managers that really don't have their best interests at heart.

Anyway, i know where i can get the stuff for less anyway. I was just trying to give a local business the money to help out the local economy, and to help out my friend. I am going to buy it all Saturday in Vandalia. Too bad for Debasio, and i guess good for me as I will save money to buy some more dvd's or something.

Scott

Robert Simandl

01-06-05, 05:24 PM

Big news from DirecTV:

IRECTV Demonstrates World's First Live MPEG-4 AVC HD Transmission via Satellite
Thursday January 6, 1:00 pm ET
Advanced Transmission and Compression Technology will Support Massive Expansion of Programming

LAS VEGAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 6, 2005--Continuing to establish milestones in technological achievement and advancements that enhance the television entertainment experience, DIRECTV, Inc., the nation's leading and fastest-growing digital television service provider today demonstrated the world's first live MPEG-4 AVC/DVB-S2 (Moving Picture Expert Group -- Advanced Video Compression/Digital Video Broadcast -- Satellite 2) high-definition (HD) transmission via satellite at the 2005 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES).

The new standard in transmission and video compression is being demonstrated on an HD television set in the DIRECTV booth at CES, and will be used by DIRECTV to expand its video offer by launching hundreds of local and national HD channels later this year and in 2007.

"This is the most advanced transmission in the world, mapping out a bold new path for the delivery of HDTV via satellite to every consumer in America," said Romulo Pontual, executive vice president and CTO, The DIRECTV Group. "By combining this transmission technology with powerful new satellites, we are laying the foundation to make the best television experience even better."

This advanced transmission significantly reduces the amount of bandwidth required to deliver HD via satellite. DIRECTV will continue to use MPEG-2 for standard definition broadcasts and will eventually convert all existing HD customers to the new technology introduced today.

Pontual also acknowledged Tandberg, Radyne/Comstream, Conexant, Broadcom and ST Microelectronics for their support in DIRECTV's transmission enhancement initiative. As part of this initiative, DIRECTV has been working cooperatively with members of the industry toward the development of a common transmission format, contributing significantly to the Digital Video Broadcasting standard for advanced modulation and coding (DVB-S2) and the implementation of guidelines for MPEG-4 AVC.

DIRECTV announced last September plans for a dramatic expansion of local and national HD programming over the next two years via four new Ka-band satellites to support the carriage of 1,500 local and 150 CONUS HDTV channels plus other enhanced services. The satellites are now under construction and two will be launched early this year.

DIRECTV is the nation's leading and fastest growing digital multichannel television service provider with more than 13.5 million customers. DIRECTV and the Cyclone Design logo are registered trademarks of DIRECTV, Inc., a unit of The DIRECTV Group Inc. (NYSETV - News). The DIRECTV Group is a world-leading provider of digital multichannel television entertainment and broadband satellite networks and services. The DIRECTV Group is 34 percent owned by Fox Entertainment Group, which is approximately 82 percent owned by News Corporation. For more information visit www.directv.com.
Contact:

DIRECTV, Inc.
Robert Mercer, 310-726-4683

Especially attention-grabbing for me is the phrase, "DIRECTV will continue to use MPEG-2 for standard definition broadcasts and will eventually convert all existing HD customers to the new technology introduced today."

Does this mean all our *D HD receivers, including my $1000 HD Tivo, will be obsolete as far as picking up ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, etc?

I can't imagine *D up and p!ssing off their biggest customers like that. Surely they'll give us some sort of upgrade path?

DroptheRemote

01-06-05, 05:30 PM

The following is from today's Evening Bridge, formerly mediabiz.com's MarketClose:
_________________________________

TOP STORY - DirecTV and EchoStar's DISH Network unveiled new products and services at CES in Las Vegas today, including new DVRs. EchoStar released its high def/multi-room DISH Player-DVR 942 and DISH Player-DVR 625, which will offer video-on-demand features.

DirecTV revealed a dual tuner "DirecTV DVR" with interactive functionality.

Also, TiVo said it's developing a high-definition, digital cable ready DVR.

At the Bell

Also at CES, Samsung Electronics and Charter Communications announced a strategic partnership for the joint development and promotion of two- way digital cable...

_________________________________

DroptheRemote

01-06-05, 05:47 PM

Robert,

I suspect that there will be some sort of upgrade offered. It's possible that your current box is already set up for MPEG-4 without you knowing it, or there may be the facility for a remote firmware upgrade. Of course, a swapout is a possibility, too, but I doubt that due to the costs involved.

FWIW, obsolesence has been one of the big talking points this week at the HDTV Magazine Tips List. This fairly emotional discussion got started with speculation that upcoming HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will not include any sort of analog (component or RGB) connections, or that if they do they will scale the video down to 480p. If true (note the qualifier), this would mean that any HDTV without a DVI connection would effectively be unable to display the HD version of DVD once it's available.

As you can imagine, this has resulted in the phrase "class action lawsuit" to be tossed around as casually as baseballs at a convention of middle infielders. Mitsubishi has been most frequently singled out as a suit target, due to the fact that their (very expensive) Promise Module doesn't even include DVI, making its "promise" seem pretty hollow.

One other point about HDTV Magazine. This publication is on the ropes yet again and may be going down for the count. If you're looking for additional sources of HDTV information, you might want to consider a subscription, which is $35 annually. I can only speak for myself (a charter member who paid $25 for a lifetime subscription), but the Tips List discussions are very interesting and I suspect that many of the regulars here would find at least that part of the subscription to be very worthwhile.

Scott Tucker

01-06-05, 06:49 PM

Just got home from work to find a bill from Charter for $70 for the install they never performed. If they can figure out how to charge me, how come they can't figure out how to install my broadband? So far they are meeting my expectations, so i guess i can't be too upset.

Scott

dweebe

01-06-05, 06:49 PM

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2005/01/03/daily63.html?f=et82

LATEST NEWS
2:50 PM CST Thursday
Charter, Samsung team up on two-way digital cable TV
Charter Communications Inc. is teaming up with Samsung Electronics to develop and promote two-way digital cable TV.

The companies will work together to develop the technology and to sell digital TVs embedded with XHT two-way digital cable receivers. The partnership is expected to increase the number of Charter's high-definition digital cable customers and increase market share of digital TVs for Ridgefield Park, N.J.-based Samsung in North America.

Financial terms were not disclosed.

St. Louis-based Charter Communications Inc. (Nasdaq: CHTR) is the nation's third-largest cable television provider, and also provides digital video programming and high-speed Internet access.

© 2005 American City Business Journals Inc.

I guess you can call this good news. At least Charter has it in their developmental pipeline.

jedi35

01-06-05, 08:54 PM

Am I really the only Voom customer on this board? Does that make me the only idiot here?

Bob, I decided to hang around due to the cooler temps here and elsewhere, not knowing if I was going to run into ice on the road. We can get together soon, or wait til next Wed. Let me know. Sounds like Alias was pretty good.

wmschultz

01-06-05, 10:27 PM

I'm watching Joey via HD-Tivo right now and I can not believe KSDK screwed up this HD broadcast AGAIN!!!!!!!!! Can't they leave anything alone?

KSDK SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kurt K

01-06-05, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by wmschultz
I'm watching Joey via HD-Tivo right now and I can not believe KSDK screwed up this HD broadcast AGAIN!!!!!!!!! Can't they leave anything alone?

KSDK SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get ready for no HD during Leno.... Ok, I know I'm sounding like a broken record. When was the last time everybody emailed KSDK to express their lack of satisfaction.

Here's the info from the 1st page of the thread:

KSDK Channel 5 contact:
jheskett@ksdk.gannett.com
kcreamer@ksdk.gannett.com

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
...this would mean that any HDTV without a DVI connection would effectively be unable to display the HD version of DVD once it's available.
This is very disturbing to me, as my 2-3 year old Pioneer Elite would be obsolete. I knew that might happen eventually, but I thought it would take a little longer.

hall316

01-06-05, 11:24 PM

DirecTV @ CES - HD local channels second half 2005 >

DirecTV Press Conference CES

With 13 total satellites already up or planned for use by 2007, DirecTV will be launching high definition local channels in the second half of 2005 in twelve markets. The first cities will be New York, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Washington DC, Detroit, and Tampa. HD locals will be transmitted with MPEG4 AVC HD transmission (the first live demo will be shown on the CES floor), but users will need a new satellite receiver to receive those MPEG4 AVC feeds and perhaps a new satellite dish (they completely dodged the new dish question).

DirecTV is launching their own branded DVR (’the most-advanced DVR in the world’ according to DirecTV and further putting the hurt on TiVo), which will feature 100-hour recording capability, one-touch recording, dual tuners (record two and watch a third already-recorded show), onscreen caller ID, instant replay, bookmarks, and a search function. The cache is large enough to pause and rewind live TV for up to 90 minutes and the unit will be available in mid-2005 (no price announced). The menus and item selection is instant when scrolling through them (even faster than TiVo when DTV showed the demo). This first DVR looks to be incapable of recoding HDTV and they made no mention of any new HD DVRs this year (so there may be a glimmer of hope for TiVo after all since they have the only hi-def DTV DVR). They were quite happy to stop DirecTV satellite piracy last year and didn’t seem to think that it would slow subscriber growth this year (as many ex-pirates were forced to subscribe) when we asked them about it.

www.engadget.com (http://www.engadget.com/)

I wonder if it's a good time to unload our current hd tuners.

Toeside

01-06-05, 11:42 PM

Did anyone watch, or start watching "Medium" KSDK tonight? They re-ran the Pilot, which wasn't supposed to be on. What's up with that?

GlendaleHDTV

01-07-05, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Toeside
Did anyone watch, or start watching "Medium" KSDK tonight? They re-ran the Pilot, which wasn't supposed to be on. What's up with that?

I watched it. Decent show. Is it normally in HD? KSDK was breaking in with their Tsunami Relief Hotline numbers at the bottom, so the whole thing was "postage stamped" (i.e. black bars all around) even when the hotline numbers weren't showing - thanks KSDK for your "flip switching" prowess.:rolleyes:

Robert Simandl

01-07-05, 08:00 AM

Haven't had the chance to check it myself yet (the show's still sitting on the HD TiVo waiting to be watched), but the HD Programming Forum here says CSI Vegas last night was 5.1 and sounded phenomenal.

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:00 AM

The following is from SkyREPORT E-News:

____________________________________

DirecTV Announces First 12 Local HD Markets

Thursday at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, DirecTV announced 12 DMAs that will be among the first to receive local channels in high-def sometime in the second half of the year.

The first DMAs to receive local HD channels are New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, San Francisco, Dallas, Washington, D.C., Atlanta, Detroit, Houston and Tampa. The markets represent nearly 36 million homes, or 32.8 percent of all U.S. TV households.

DirecTV said additional markets that will receive local HD programming via satellite this year will be announced at a later date.

____________________________________

For the complete story, go to www.skyreport.com

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:03 AM

The following news nuggets are excerpted from today's SkyREPORT E-News.

Note that it's not clear whether the DVR announced by DirecTV supports HDTV:

______________________________

* DISH Network release of its newest high-definition (HD) satellite TV receiver, the DISH Player-DVR 942 ($749). The company also introduced two HD, liquid-crystal display (LCD), thin-panel TVs.

*DISH said it will offer a video-on-demand service called DISH On Demand. The company will roll out the VOD service by March to new customers with DISH Network's new digital video recorder (DVR), the DISH Player-DVR 625.

*DirecTV introduced a new dual tuner, interactive DirecTV digital video recorder (DVR), which will be available in mid-2005. Users of the new DVR can record and store up to 100 hours of DirecTV programming and directly access interactive services.

* The VOOM satellite TV service from Cablevision and Rainbow DBS said it still has plans in place to expand orbital capacity that will allow the company to grow its HD lineup from 39 channels to 71 channels. In addition, VOOM said it plans to add nearly 200 standard definition channels. To facilitate the expansion, VOOM is leasing 16 transponders on the SES Americom AMC-6 satellite, which it refers to as "Rainbow 2."
______________________________

For the full story and other CES coverage, go to www.skyreport.com

oby

01-07-05, 09:03 AM

When St. Louis is added to the Direct TV Hd Local Channel lineup, I wonder if Direct TV will pay the Sinclair Group inorder to carry ABC HD. Charter, so far, has apparently refused to pay them.

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:14 AM

oby,

That's a good question, but I don't think anyone knows how this will unfold.

Also, there was a story earlier in the week that says the FCC is planning to reject a broadcaster petition that would require cable (and presumably satellite) to carry all sub-channels that are part of a local broadcaster's digital transmission.

Carrying multiple digital locals (main and subchannels) has reportedly been a sticking point in the negotiations between Charter and Sinclair, though presumably the bigger issue is money.

I don't know if the reportedly pending FCC ruling will weaken or strengthen the demands of Sinclair (or other broadcasters) that cable carry their entire digital offerings. What it does mean is that this isn't going to be a government mandate and as a result will be subject to negotiation for each broadcaster and cable company individually.

What might happen as a result is that broadcasters will be less inclined to pursue multicasting if they know that cable isn't required to carry everything they provide in a digital broadcast feed. On the other hand, they could just dig in their heels (or threaten to hold their breath until they turn blue).

To my way of thinking, anything that potentially discourages multi-casting is positive for HD picture quality.

Scott Tucker

01-07-05, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by oby
When St. Louis is added to the Direct TV Hd Local Channel lineup, I wonder if Direct TV will pay the Sinclair Group inorder to carry ABC HD. Charter, so far, has apparently refused to pay them.

If i'm not mistaken, i have been getting abc in HD as of late, oh, but i just realized it is not out of St. Louis though. Never mind.

Scott

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:20 AM

Robert,

I noticed that my receiver indicated that CSI was coming through as Dolby Digital last night. I thought that the sound in the front channels was a bit more distinct, but I didn't actually notice a lot of activity in the rear channels.

FWIW, my receiver has sometimes shown CSI as DD even when it wasn't.

abcward

01-07-05, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by oby
When St. Louis is added to the Direct TV Hd Local Channel lineup, I wonder if Direct TV will pay the Sinclair Group inorder to carry ABC HD. Charter, so far, has apparently refused to pay them.

Good luck with that negotiations - Sinclair up to this point, seems to want the moon.

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:22 AM

Scott,

Are you actually getting ABC-HD via DirecTV, or would this be the FOX-HD feed out of New York that most of the rest of us with DTV are getting?

If it really is an ABC-HD network feed, you might want to lay low, because it's probably coming through in error.

SheerLuck_Homes

01-07-05, 09:23 AM

I sat down last night to watch CSI-NY, having recorded it Wed on my 921 OTA. Did anyone else have MAJOR sound problems?

I had all the background noices and music but no center channel at all (main character voices). I fast forwarded through the entire show and the sound was screwed up throughout except for the commercials (go figure).

How difficult is it for Channel 4 to get things right????????????

Robert Simandl

01-07-05, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
The following is from SkyREPORT E-News:

____________________________________

DirecTV Announces First 12 Local HD Markets

Thursday at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, DirecTV announced 12 DMAs that will be among the first to receive local channels in high-def sometime in the second half of the year.

The first DMAs to receive local HD channels are New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, San Francisco, Dallas, Washington, D.C., Atlanta, Detroit, Houston and Tampa. The markets represent nearly 36 million homes, or 32.8 percent of all U.S. TV households.

DirecTV said additional markets that will receive local HD programming via satellite this year will be announced at a later date.

____________________________________

For the complete story, go to www.skyreport.com

This will necessitate some sort of upgrade path for us subscribers as well. Yesterday's article said all those local HD channels through *D will be in mpeg-4 format... not compatible with our current receivers. They'll have to have some sort of low cost/no cost upgrade available for us *D HD subscribers to avoid a subscriber stampede to Dish.

abcward

01-07-05, 09:27 AM

Hmm, the satellite companies are announcing plans for VOD, local channels in HD without an antenna, and currently offer more HD content than cable does.

Does this spell the end of some cable companies, including Charter?

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:28 AM

One of the interesting questions to consider on DirecTV's announcement that it will use MPEG-4 for delivery of local HD channels is what the actual effect of taking a feed that is originally encoded in MPEG-2 and then further encoding it for MPEG-4.

Will the initial MPEG-2 feed need to be decompressed before it is compressed for MPEG-4, or will the MPEG-2 feed simply be converted to MPEG-4 and then decompressed at the receiver end?

But the most important question is, what's the bottom line in picture quality? Apparently DirecTV has been demonstrating this at CES, but I haven't heard any comment on the quality.

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:31 AM

Bruce,

There are a number of cable providers around the country that have a lead over satellite in terms of HD offerings. I think satellite overall still has an edge, but there are some cable companies out there that are staking out the HD high ground now.

Of course, Charter's not among that group and we can only hope that the slew of satellite announcements about HD coming out of CES get them "walking the walk" rather than giving HD the absolute minimum "lip service" required.

RaceTripper

01-07-05, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
One of the interesting questions to consider on DirecTV's announcement that it will use MPEG-4 for delivery of local HD channels is what the actual effect of taking a feed that is originally encoded in MPEG-2 and then further encoding it for MPEG-4.

Will the initial MPEG-2 feed need to be decompressed before it is compressed for MPEG-4, or will the MPEG-2 feed simply be converted to MPEG-4 and then decompressed at the receiver end?

But the most important question is, what's the bottom line in picture quality? Apparently DirecTV has been demonstrating this at CES, but I haven't heard any comment on the quality.

I would be nice to see SPEED become HD because they get feeds for FIA F1 and WRC from European providers, which will start to tape races in MPEG4. One of the German providers has already said they'll do this for Formula 1 in 2006.

When I can see F1 and WRC races in HD, then HD will have truely arrived. :)

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:37 AM

Robert,

You're correct about the fact that current HD receivers will be unable to receive the HD local broadcasts and there's apparently no scope for upgrading them.

I think this will keep the DirecTV Retention Desk plenty busy over the next year or so.

It will be interesting to see how accommodating they'll be with existing subscribers, as DTV will be able to say that if you don't want to buy a new box, you can always use the old one with an antenna. Of course, as a subscriber, you can always "claim" that an antenna doesn't work in your location, effectively creating "a stalemate."

I suspect that DirecTV won't be all that helpful in providing a painless upgrade path. I base that on the fact that they've obviously decided to limit their MPEG-4 encoding to HD locals, at least for now, so an upgrade isn't really essential for existing subs.

abcward

01-07-05, 09:45 AM

Doug,

Charter had better do something soon. IMHO Charter only has a few advantages and VOD & HD locals w/o antenna are two of the biggest ones [HD DVR without a $1000 pricetag is the other].

You take those two advantages away, even if Charter adds a couple random HD channels, they will still be in trouble. Especially since their rates are now not any cheaper than satellite.

Bruce

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 09:59 AM

Bruce,

I agree with you. Charter (and other foot- and knuckle-dragging cable companies) have squandered one of their key advantages over satellite -- the ability to eliminate the hassle of receiving local HD channels for potential subscribers.

Obviously these slow-movers have calculated (mostly correctly) that HD wasn't big enough for that strategic advantage to have any near-term value. But they still could have used it to "lock in" the sort of high-fee subscribers that they need to grow their businesses over the next decade. The "volume play" is played out and they need to focus on increasing the average billing per subscriber, and "making nice" with the high-end, cost-flexible, early-adopter HD crowd would have been a wise place to start that effort.

In effect, Charter (and cable overall) had an opportunity to "rehab" its image with an important group of high-paying subscribers and they dropped the ball. If anything, Charter has made its position with quality-focused consumers even worse by offering a half-baked HD package and showing no interest in addressing its serious shortcomings for more than a year.

abcward

01-07-05, 10:06 AM

Doug,

For someone interested in switching to D*, would you suggest waiting a few months until these new services are actually offered? Or joining now and upgrading later?

Also, if one was to go with D*, do you have any suggestions in keeping the initial costs down to a minimum? [but still getting DVR and HD]

------------------------
I am also curious to see that Voom is still making promises at the CES. I thought with all the recent announcements that they would be more silent. Are they still an option in anyone's mind?
------------------------

Bruce

GlendaleHDTV

01-07-05, 10:50 AM

Speaking of Charter, I was shocked, SHOCKED I say, to find that they did not add ESPN2-HD to their lineup yesterday when it launched.:rolleyes:

abcward

01-07-05, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
Speaking of Charter, I was shocked, SHOCKED I say, to find that they did not add ESPN2-HD to their lineup yesterday when it launched.:rolleyes:

:D :D :D :D :D

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 10:59 AM

Bruce,

It's been a while since I've actually negotiated anything with DirecTV, so maybe someone else here will have more current information or better ideas about how to approach this.

But here's my take:

First, I think it's probably a good idea to wait a month or two, because like any large organization it takes a while for the execution part of the business to catch up with the ivory tower part of the business that announces ambitious new products and services.

Once the dust has settled a bit, I'd approach DirecTV directly and tell them that you're potentially interested in dropping cable in favor of their service. You should let them know that you're particularly interested in HD and you're looking for the best offer they can give you, based on the number of rooms you need to have for DTV service.

You should be able to get a pretty good deal, particularly on any standard-definition boxes you require, and probably even for the non-DVR HD receivers. Once you've haggled with them to the point where you think you've gotten the best deal you can from them, you should agree but make it conditional on DirecTV providing you a full-credit upgrade when the new HD receivers/DVRs are rolled out.

In other words, if you end up paying $XXX for your HD receiver, when the new gear comes out you get a full $XXX credit against the cost of the upgraded receiver.

Based on some recent conversations I've had with DirecTV, I think they would actually provide you with refurbished gear in the interim (though possibly at full retail cost) and then swap that out and provide you the full credit against the cost of the new gear when it's available.

If they won't make you future-proof, you should tell them that you will wait, or give DISH or VOOM a chance to win your business.

At this point, DirecTV can't afford fence-sitting prospects waiting for new technology that may or may not arrive on schedule. And you should feel free to remind them of their miserable track record on that score. Some of the initial HD receivers announced in 1999 didn't actually make it to market until mid-2000.

Kurt K

01-07-05, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Robert,

You're correct about the fact that current HD receivers will be unable to receive the HD local broadcasts and there's apparently no scope for upgrading them.

I think this will keep the DirecTV Retention Desk plenty busy over the next year or so.

It will be interesting to see how accommodating they'll be with existing subscribers, as DTV will be able to say that if you don't want to buy a new box, you can always use the old one with an antenna. Of course, as a subscriber, you can always "claim" that an antenna doesn't work in your location, effectively creating "a stalemate."

I suspect that DirecTV won't be all that helpful in providing a painless upgrade path. I base that on the fact that they've obviously decided to limit their MPEG-4 encoding to HD locals, at least for now, so an upgrade isn't really essential for existing subs.

Do you think we might be able to get the MPEG-4 receivers as an upgrade through D*'s equipment insurance. I currently don't carry the equipment insurance, but I would add it if I thought it would give me leverage to get the upgraded receiver when the come available.

Kurt

DroptheRemote

01-07-05, 02:57 PM

Kurt,

I'm doubtful that the insurance would cover that.

For that matter, if you did have the insurance and you did have a "failure" in 6 months or so, I suspect that the new MPEG-4 boxes would be in high demand and restricted supply, and that as a result DirecTV would probably replace like with like, meaning you'd get a refurbished non-MPEG-4 receiver, instead of refurbished "new" stock.

Over time as the MPEG-4 receivers become more common and DirecTV builds an inventory of refurbed MPEG-4 models, then you might get a "slipstream" upgrade for an older version.

But I think that scenario is probably at least a year down the line.

comp1040

01-07-05, 03:14 PM

Sheerluck

Yes the sound was totally screwed up the other night. I could faintly hear the voices and gave up after five minutes and erased it.

Ron

jedi35

01-07-05, 03:22 PM

I'm also curious about the fact that there is talk of Voom being sold, and talk about Voom adding a lot more HD and SD channels at CES. I probably won't hold my breath on this one.

abcward

01-07-05, 03:29 PM

jedi35,

I truly am intrigued by Voom. I was actually getting very close to trying out their service until all the 'doom & gloom' news was passed on lately. It seems like there is differing news almost daily on Voom. Maybe they'll survive, maybe they won't. I wish we all had more concrete information on this company. If I did, maybe I would be the second Voom'er on this thread.

JDKH

01-07-05, 03:42 PM

I sent an email to KSDK this morning and just received the following reply:

We have been working on the capability to record and play in HD. If the Rams make it through this weekend, unless there are unforeseen problems, we will be able to delay the Leno broadcast in HD.

Thank you for your email. If there are any questions, please let me know. And thank you for selecting KSDK, NewsChannel 5, as your source for news, information, and entertainment.

Sincerely,

Mike Tamme

Maybe they are finally getting the word that people do pay attention to their HD broadcasts.

John

redwine

01-07-05, 07:21 PM

StLouG

01-07-05, 07:27 PM

Number 4 :p

jedi35

01-07-05, 10:35 PM

So, it's confirmed....I am the only idiot with Voom on this board???

redwine

01-07-05, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
So, it's confirmed....I am the only idiot with Voom on this board???

Idiot / pioneer ? Potato / Potaato ?

Somebody had to eat the first habanero pepper...and now they are culinary heros.

abcward

01-07-05, 11:20 PM

jedi,

We're not laughing at you....we're laughing next to you!

BudShark

01-08-05, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by abcward
Doug,

For someone interested in switching to D*, would you suggest waiting a few months until these new services are actually offered? Or joining now and upgrading later?

Also, if one was to go with D*, do you have any suggestions in keeping the initial costs down to a minimum? [but still getting DVR and HD]

Bruce

I really wouldn't worry about switching to D* right now. I would go ahead and join now and upgrade later.

I base this on a couple points - 1) Only HD locals have been announced as MPEG-4. 2) St. Louis won't be in the first 25 markets, so it will be late '06 or early '07 before it goes 3) It looks like Tivo will be abandoned in '07 by D* 4) What they have now works great, the HD Tivo, the SD Tivo, their HD offerings, etc.

Basically enjoy more than Charter and E* now, and be confident for about 2 years. In 2 years you will have to upgrade to get MPEG 4, newer HD boxes, DVRs, etc. But in 2 years it won't be a big deal - and oh by the way, do you really think D* will ditch Tivo AND force its high-end customers into expensive upgrades all in the same year? Nope, they'll have plenty of upgrades/rebates/deals...

Chris

dweebe

01-08-05, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by BudShark
... 3) It looks like Tivo will be abandoned in '07 by D* 4) What they have now works great, the HD Tivo, the SD Tivo, their HD offerings, etc.

Basically enjoy more than Charter and E* now, and be confident for about 2 years. In 2 years you will have to upgrade to get MPEG 4, newer HD boxes, DVRs, etc. But in 2 years it won't be a big deal - and oh by the way, do you really think D* will ditch Tivo AND force its high-end customers into expensive upgrades all in the same year? Nope, they'll have plenty of upgrades/rebates/deals...

Chris

People are misunderstanding that information. Your DirectTV Tivo box is not going to up and stop working in some point in 2007. They're going to stop marketing new boxes but existing subscribers will still be served after 2007.

Toeside

01-08-05, 02:35 PM

Interesting info (at least to me):

Buffalo Wild Wings @ Hwy K & N in OFallon is getting 6 new "Big Screens" with HDTV. I overheard the manager telling someone they'll be installed in about a week.

phreaknes

01-09-05, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by abcward
Hmm, the satellite companies are announcing plans for VOD, local channels in HD without an antenna, and currently offer more HD content than cable does.

Does this spell the end of some cable companies, including Charter?

No I think because of Cable Boardband / FTD , and certain subdivisions that dont allow any external satilite system. plus you dont need a reciever in ever room to get baisc cable.

phreaknes

01-09-05, 10:21 AM

OK, I just got my Panny 7uy mounted and hooked up last night and DVD's look AWSOME on it. But charter cable looks like A$$ and its all channed. weather its direct attached to my ATI AIW or through the cable box. is there anyway (cablebox?) to improve the PQ? I figured that since it was digital cable It would be ALOT better!

I was going to attempt to read this thread but after 110+ pages it waaaay to much!

abcward

01-09-05, 10:59 AM

phreaknes,

keep in mind that 'digital cable' is only digital on channels higher than 100 on Charter. Channels 2-99 are still analog.

phreaknes

01-09-05, 11:03 AM

yea I know on 2 - 99 but My DIY's VH1 and HBO's look bad also. They all look the same, ALL BAD

what are the current cable box options that chater STL offer?

DroptheRemote

01-09-05, 11:11 AM

How large is your plasma screen?

Clearly part of the problem with cable or satellite standard-definition channels is the compression that occurs or the fact that analog and digital channels are riding on the same cable system.

But another part of the problem is that when NTSC was designed, it was never envisioned that the screen would ever be larger than 20 inches or so. When you take an NTSC image and make it larger, it gets progressively less attractive the bigger you make it.

A scaler ($1000 entry point) might eliminate some of the issues (scan lines that are visible once you pass a certain screen size), but it's never going to be any better than marginal, IMO.

phreaknes

01-09-05, 11:17 AM

Charter cable box --> ATI AIW 9600 out via DVI --> 42" panny EDTV w/DVI blade (soon to be a second for PIP)

Robert Simandl

01-09-05, 04:35 PM

I just LOVED that 24-style intro Fox just gave the playoff game today. Hope that makes it onto the 24 season 4 box set this Fall/Winter.

Note: 2-hour season premiere tonight after the game, with another two hour episode Monday at 7 on channel 2-1. Can't wait (I like this show even more than ALIAS and LOST)!

StLouG

01-09-05, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by abcward
jedi35,

I truly am intrigued by Voom. I was actually getting very close to trying out their service until all the 'doom & gloom' news was passed on lately. It seems like there is differing news almost daily on Voom. Maybe they'll survive, maybe they won't. I wish we all had more concrete information on this company. If I did, maybe I would be the second Voom'er on this thread.

I have seen a lot of info. on the VOOM DVR at the Satellite Guys site. They are saying a March 2005 release date is a go. If that is correct I am about ready to be the second VOOMER in this forum. My neighbor just had Voom installed about 2 weeks ago and he loves it. The only drawback is that VOOM does not carry FOX MIDWEST. However I will get all my locals and keep my fingers cross for the DVR.

hall316

01-10-05, 12:21 PM

I think the current free instal and only having a 6 mo contract ends the first of March. Seems that they could really increase their subscription base if they would give a real date. No upfront cost for people is the key for them to get more people on board. The main reason I never signed up with them was no dvr and no Fox Sports. Well, it's not like there is going to be hockey this year or maybe even next year so it's really just not having the dvr that is keeping me from leaving DTV.

abcward

01-10-05, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by hall316
I think the current free instal and only having a 6 mo contract ends the first of March. Seems that they could really increase their subscription base if they would give a real date. No upfront cost for people is the key for them to get more people on board. The main reason I never signed up with them was no dvr and no Fox Sports. Well, it's not like there is going to be hockey this year or maybe even next year so it's really just not having the dvr that is keeping me from leaving DTV.

I feel pretty much the same way as you - there are 3 main reasons why I am not Vooming yet -

- DVR
- FSMW [ even with no NHL, that would be too many Cards games to miss]
- rumors of Voom's demise

If they go get DVR in March and possibly add regional sports channels, I'm switching. Then if Voom does go under or get sold, Ill make new decisions at that time.... I just want all the HD I can get and don't want to have to purchase HD PVR's at $1k [and then have to buy other equipment next year when the next tech breakthrough happens]

StLouG

01-10-05, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by abcward
I feel pretty much the same way as you - there are 3 main reasons why I am not Vooming yet -

- DVR
- FSMW [ even with no NHL, that would be too many Cards games to miss]
- rumors of Voom's demise

Follow this linkk to see the spec sheet on the VOOM DVR. I agree if they do have this DVR by March then I am switching.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=275426#post275426

skippy_rq

01-10-05, 07:37 PM

I have been reading all I can on my two choices. I was once a Dish customer and dropped them due to dissatisfaction. I have been with DirecTV for around 3.5 years now. But I am bothered by the cost of HD TiVo. I have no experience with Charter asides from the high speed internet and telephone service. I currently just had Charter go live in my subdivision and just added the high speed internet. The gave me 3mb at a good price of 29.99/month if I commited to a year and did autopay. The question I have is how is Charter's service for digital cable? I like the idea of having HD DVR capabilities. I also like the idea of HD over the cable. I currently receive KMOV-HD off and on OTA. VOD sound neat but I have never seen it. I currently pay DirecTV around $77 for TC+Locals, 2 TiVos, 2 reg receivers, HD package, HD Receiver, and the protection plan. From what I have seen, I can get every channel and HD DVR and cable modem from Charter for 110. I am trying to see what others think of this. Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance!

Rich

_Arklyte_

01-10-05, 07:50 PM

I live in Cottleville and have the Charter high speed internet - digital and HD. Their HD package has HDNet, HDMovies, ESPN HD, (showtime and HBO for additional), and HD channels 2-4-5. For me, it's only 6 channels of HD, whch SUCKS big time.

Really, I'm not very impressed with it at all. I occasionally have to use my OTA receiver to pick up the other channels for HD.... like last weekends Rams game. To me, this is just silly. I'm paying alot of money but can't get what is available for free.....local HD for all stations.

I'm kinda like your position, I already had high speed internet and digital cable, so adding the HD channels was not much more. I will say I'm leaving soon if they don't add some other HD content. Voom is looking better by the week:D

abcward

01-10-05, 07:55 PM

skippy_rq,

I have had Charter for the last couple years and have had the HD DVR [the moxi] since the first week they offered it. Before my Charter experience I was a satisfied E* subscriber, but was forced to go with Charter due to no DSL in my area.

Anyways, here's my experience...

The Moxi DVR is a very nice box especially for not having to shell out a grand to get it. I also like that its Charter owned, so if it breaks they will replace it and if some new technology shows up, I can have them take it back and replace with that new thing.

The Moxi does have a few small gripes associated with it too. sd picture quality is marginal at best. However many people complain of the same issue with any tivo unit as well. Also there is no large scale grid to be able to see whats on many channels at the same time, but this isn't a huge deal for me. Bottom line, being able to record HD content for only a few bucks a month is great.

Charter offers the following channels in HD currently: CBS, FOX, NBC, ESPN-HD, SHOWTIME-HD, HBO-HD, HDNet & HDNet Movies. There are some glaring holes including Discovery, Universal-HD, ABC and WB. And I do like the fact that these locals in HD are received without any hassle of antennas. Now, please understand I frequently do get frustrated with the HD content omissions. imho, if Charter would fill in a few holes I would have very few things to gripe about. But I do not see a lot of hints that more HD is coming any time soon.

We frequently use VOD too. We only use VOD for the 'free' content. Meaning that we have all of the premium movies channels like HBO, Starz, etc. For every one of those premium channels there is a corresponding set of VOD content that is included in the price for the premiums. Example- if we miss the brand new episode of The Sopranos, we just head to VOD, pick out the specific episode and watch it. Or, if my kids are bored on a rainy day, I dial up Starz' VOD, find one of their many childrens movie and hit the play button. Pretty cool little extra...

Yes, as many people have stated here Charter does have many short comings. I can frequently defend them, and the next day jump on their case. But they do have their good points and thought I should share...since you asked.

BTW, we currently pay $113 total per month for every single channel including all the premium movies channels, Moxi DVR, HD service, one other digital box, and 3meg internet.

Any more questions, feel free to PM me for more details offline.

skippy_rq

01-10-05, 08:02 PM

I am behind the new Taco Bell/Backyard Burger on Hwy K. I use OTA for all locals. I just have extreme difficulty with KMOV. The install was a "professional" (gag) job. If I make the switch I will go with HBO and all the premiums I dont have now. I only get Discovery, HDnet, HDNMovies, ESPN, and UniversalHD for 10.99. I know it is $4 w/ Charter. I have heard Charter doesnt offer Discovery HD.

Thanks for the post abcward. That gives me some good points. The biggest is the owning vs leasing of equipment.

Scott Tucker

01-10-05, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by skippy_rq
I am behind the new Taco Bell/Backyard Burger on Hwy K. I use OTA for all locals. I just have extreme difficulty with KMOV. The install was a "professional" (gag) job. If I make the switch I will go with HBO and all the premiums I dont have now. I only get Discovery, HDnet, HDNMovies, ESPN, and UniversalHD for 10.99. I know it is $4 w/ Charter. I have heard Charter doesnt offer Discovery HD.

Thanks for the post abcward. That gives me some good points. The biggest is the owning vs leasing of equipment.

Skippy, I must live in the same neighborhood as you. I use the Terk TV32 UHF only antenna. I put it in the attic, and get all local HD channels perfectly. Hope this helps.

Scott

bl7385

01-10-05, 11:47 PM

Yea. As promised, KSDK did it. Delayed Leno in HD.

This would be a good time for all of us to send a positive note to them.

Kurt K

01-11-05, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by bl7385
Yea. As promised, KSDK did it. Delayed Leno in HD.

This would be a good time for all of us to send a positive note to them. You beat me to the post. The pic looked pretty good, but the sound volume was a bit low (definitely not a big deal).

edit: I sent an email this morning 1/11 to KSDK to acknowledge that I appreciated watching Leno in HD last night.

skippy_rq

01-11-05, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Scott Tucker
Skippy, I must live in the same neighborhood as you. I use the Terk TV32 UHF only antenna. I put it in the attic, and get all local HD channels perfectly. Hope this helps.

Scott

I have the Winegard GS1000 OTA antenna. I also am pretty high up from what I noticed when I was on the roof doing Xmas lights. I would go up and try to check the allignment, but I just had two foot surgeries and can't go up for a while.

-Rich

BradZ

01-11-05, 10:09 AM

Anybody in sunset hills?

A friend of mine is dumping Charter for Dish and needs an Antenna. I told him I'd consult the experts for a recommendation.

tcfila

01-11-05, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by abcward
We frequently use VOD too. We only use VOD for the 'free' content. Meaning that we have all of the premium movies channels like HBO, Starz, etc. For every one of those premium channels there is a corresponding set of VOD content that is included in the price for the premiums. Example- if we miss the brand new episode of The Sopranos, we just head to VOD, pick out the specific episode and watch it. Or, if my kids are bored on a rainy day, I dial up Starz' VOD, find one of their many childrens movie and hit the play button. Pretty cool little extra...

Do you have another box, or is your MOXI working with VOD?

rbkb

01-11-05, 02:08 PM

abcward...

You got mail!

Kurt K

01-11-05, 04:09 PM

Here's the reply I got from KSDK:

Thank you for your comments and thank you for watching NewsChannel 5. With the Rams, or any breaking news for that matter happens, it's great that we now have the capability to record and playback in HD.

jedi35

01-11-05, 04:22 PM

So, I should expect the Voom dvr to be out in March? I hope that's true, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I'm home right now waiting for my Moxi install. The guy has until 5pm to get here. Is everyone aware that the 80 gig hard drive in the Moxi will only record about 10 hours of HD, or am I wrong? Maybe getting another Moxi box is something to consider. If Voom comes through with it's dvr, and adds the HDNet channels, I may just have to think about kissing Charter HD goodbye, but I'd miss the firewire recording. If the Voom dvr eventually adds firewire, it's on....

I popped over to Bob's to watch the 2-night 4th season opener for 24. I think I'm hooked on a new tv show. Thanks Bob, it was fun!! Great hd picture, and killer surround sound to go with it.

abcward

01-11-05, 05:00 PM

tcfila,

I do have another digital box for getting VOD. Currently my moxi does not have VOD access. However I little birdy told me that VOD via Moxi 'should' be installed overnight on Jan 19th.

jedi35,

Voom was touting their DVR at the CES. The spec sheet for the dvr stated that it had a 250gig harddrive in it. I too am curious/interested in Voom, but still have some concerns about that company's wellbeing. But if they make good on their two promises in March of more channels and dvr that may be a good sign.

Bruce

abcward

01-11-05, 05:06 PM

ESPN relaunched its interactive service, renamed ESPN360, last week on Charter Communications systems in St. Louis, with other systems set to go online before the end of the month. Users can see select live games, video highlights and analysis from ESPN commentators, plus shows such as SportsCenter and Pardon the Interruption. Historic sports clips are accessible in a "vault" area. Clips can be forwarded to friends. A free trial will be available the last weekend in January at www.espn360.com.

Huh? Did I miss something?? Does anyone know about this information?

Full story is here:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-01-10-ces-sun_x.htm

Bruce

Scott Tucker

01-11-05, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by skippy_rq
I have the Winegard GS1000 OTA antenna. I also am pretty high up from what I noticed when I was on the roof doing Xmas lights. I would go up and try to check the allignment, but I just had two foot surgeries and can't go up for a while.

-Rich

Yeah, I would stay off the roof for a while. Bummer about the surgeries. I would drop by and climb up there for you, but i'm so afraid!

Scott

tcfila

01-11-05, 05:23 PM

Bruce,

I was told that a major update is rolling out during the night of 1/15 and that it would be ready after that. I won't hold my breath.

Tim

jedi35

01-11-05, 05:36 PM

4:31pm and still no Charter Moxi installer here. When I called, I was told that the guy has up until 5pm to arrive. It's getting close. Doug, there's your cue....

I printed out the step by step instructions given by 4113 for a successful install, so hopefully I won't have any problems, provided that the guy gets here.

Thanks Bruce, I was wondering about Moxi and VOD.

abcward

01-11-05, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by tcfila
Bruce,

I was told that a major update is rolling out during the night of 1/15 and that it would be ready after that. I won't hold my breath.

Tim

Tim,

From what I am told Charter never does any major changes on the weekend, which is what Jan 15th is. A day or two ago my 'little birdy' told me that 1/19 is the current scheduled date for vod/moxi rollout. However, as always, this date may change if any issues arise.

Bruce

Robert Simandl

01-11-05, 06:45 PM

Hey Jedi,

It's now 5:41. Did the Moxi installer ever show up? Hopefully the fact that you haven't posted again yet is a good sign? :D

I've been a big fan of 24 since the first episode of the first season, and it keeps getting better every year. And this year it's true HD and 5.1, too!

With 24 and Alias both showing new episodes again, I'm a happy camper right now.

Toeside

01-11-05, 11:58 PM

Did DirecTV had ESPN2 HD to the HD package? I can't find the channel if it exists.

Craig

jedi35

01-12-05, 03:35 AM

That's a big negatory on the Moxi install. The guy didn't show up. He called me a couple of times after 6:30 and promised to be out my way early Wed. morning. Apparrently he ran out of Moxi boxes. More later...(alright Doug, I can hear you laughing).

DroptheRemote

01-12-05, 08:20 AM

BradZ,

Check out the message below, which is a resource note that appears as the very first message in this thread. This is probably as good a starting point as any, but if your friend has more specific questions after reading through this (and the following two messages), have him give me a call over the weekend and I'll do my best to handle his follow-up questions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2995679#post2995679

DroptheRemote

01-12-05, 08:23 AM

jedi,

Despite my overall negative tone toward Charter, I'm not spending a lot time rooting against it, and I don't take any pleasure in seeing folks here disappointed or inconvenienced as a result of their service.

My fundamental outlook on Charter is simple: Too many people put up with their bad service and cut them extra slack because the alternatives seem too difficult. That's regrettable, but I understand that's just the way it is.

Still, the only way Charter works seriously to get their act together is if enough people walk away from them and subscribe elsewhere. If more HD subscribers had bailed on Charter's half-baked HD offering a year ago and taken their $60+ monthly cheques elsewhere, Charter would have already added Discovery, PBS and the WB and the difficult negotiations with Sinclair/KDNL would have gotten more attention (not to say there would have been a breakthrough).

Charter provides crummy products and crummy service because it knows that customers will accept it and there's no benefit in trying harder. An installer running out of equipment for a scheduled installation is a great example of a company that accepts mediocrity from its employees and contractors and expects its customers will do the same.

abcward

01-12-05, 08:59 AM

Doug,

Your points are valid on Charter, and many opinions that I have shared myself almost weekly. Just ask my wife how many times per week that I say "thats it, i'm through with Charter. Time to go elsewhere for TV service".

But, as I have researched my alternatives I grow frustrated. Please tell me if I am missing anything on these points:

ALTERNATIVE - DISH NET
- only 2 more HD channels [discovery and tnt] - thats not 'significant' in my dictionary
- I guess I should count ABC and WB but that gets back to the OTA issue. Read thru this thread's many pages....way too many complaints with antennas.
- HD DVR? Without taking out a loan?

ALTERNATIVE - DIRECTV
- significantly more national HD content - thumbs up.
- OTA issue...see above
- here's my only major gripe with D* = explain to me in this era of ever changing technological advancements why anyone would actually pay for receivers/dvrs at a premium price? Especially when it seems that 6 months later there is another 'must-have' receiver out that you, again, must pay for. $1k for a HD receiver when Charter offers it for nothing? Hard to explain that to a wife.

ALTERNATIVE - VOOM
- no DVR
- no FSMW
- no sunny longterm outlook

Trust me, I want to be rid of my Charter chains - but I just dont see how I can get what I currently get and not have to take a loan out to get it. If I am wrong PLEASE correct me so I can escape Charter's grasp.

oby

01-12-05, 09:14 AM

In December the rumors were flying around that Charter would add to its HD lineup in January, with new HD channels. I read that a Charter system in Washington state added Starz HD, and Cinemax HD, but other than that, nothing here in St. Louis.

Has anyone heard anything ?

tedhealy

01-12-05, 10:57 AM

Long time thread reader, first time poster...because I just got Moxi. I have a few questions.

I used a splitter right before the moxi with one cable going to the tv and the other to the moxi. The upper channels (upper 70's) looked terrible when viewed through moxi or straight through the tv. I removed the splitter and it wasn't as bad. So I want to put in an amp before the split. I assume I need a bi-directional amp to accomodate the moxi, is that correct?

Sometime after first boot up of the moxi, the local non-HD ksdk vanished off all channel lists including the setup channel list. I forced a restart and it came back. In addition, I was surprised to see the "ticker" and games were added when they were not there before the reboot. Did I get a new software version already?

First night with HD, everything (what little was on) looked stunning...SD below channel 78 not so good. I have a toshiba DLP 52hmx84 which is 720p native res. I first had moxi on 720p then changed to 1080i being curious. I noticed that the quality of those SD channels below 78 seemed to improve a bit. Is there a reason for that? The quality of the HD channels seemed to be unchanged.

Finally, I noticed a bit of a lip sync problem on HD leno. A slight audio delay. Anyone else see this? I have moxi set to DD output hooked up by digital optical cable to a receiver and by composite audio directly to the tv. The delay was present for both outputs. I didn't see anything like that on the HDNet channels, espn HD, or on any of the primetime shows on the locals I watched a bit of. Is this something that could be introduced by something I'm doing in my setup (1080i vs 720p or wrong setting in moxi somewhere) or is this something out of my control? The only thing that I can think of different was I watched Leno right after the reboot where the ticker was added, but I also briefly watched a bit of HDNet this morning and I didn't see a lip sync problem. A ksdk problem?

Thanks much for this thread and all the posters!

Scott Tucker

01-12-05, 04:40 PM

Quote by abcward "here's my only major gripe with D* = explain to me in this era of ever changing technological advancements why anyone would actually pay for receivers/dvrs at a premium price?"

So I can go 10 years without once having a issue, and keep singing D*'s praises. God bless Directv. The only thing i haven't done so far is buck up for the high def tivo box, but not having it is certainly no reason to swtich to an inferior product just to get a free box. It's not worth all the hassles. Like i have said many times. I will continue to pay what ever it takes to not have Cable. Like Doug said, as long as people keep paying their bills, they will not change their ways. Cancel your cable, write a letter letting them know why, and if enough people do it maybe they will try harder to keep customers.

Scott

jedi35

01-12-05, 04:58 PM

tedhealy,
I just got my Moxi today as well. The installer didn't do something right(no surprise)and I don't have program guide info yet. Charter is sending him back out again today, so I'm waiting. I tried to be as helpful as I could, as one of the guys did not know that power should not be applied to the box until the other connections are made, the account is properly set up, and the csr then gives the ok to power up. He wanted to fire it up right away, but I stopped him. Then his senior confirmed what I told him(man, than must have burned him). I showed them the list of instructions from 4113, but they still messed up somewhere. One guy asked for a copy, and they both admitted that they were new at this, and there wasn't much training. Go figure.

While I wait, I am able to get an idea of how Moxi operates. I must agree with everyone else that SD is horrid on this box. It did help a bit when I got my SD to show up in pillarbox mode 480i. HD is actually a bit better than my other Charter HD box. The sound is killer. Bravo!! I paused a show easily to run out for food, and continued watching when I got home. That is a neat feature. I was able to fast forward and rewind with no problems. Aside from the limited hard drive size, and the lack of 480i passthrough, I think I will enjoy this box.

The guys told me that amps are not recommended with Moxi, but I'd try it anyway. You are probably right on the 2 way version. My ticker and games popped up on a later reset of the box as well, although there's no updated ticker info being received yet. As to why your SD channels improved in 1080i mode, perhaps your set does better with taking a higher resolution signal and scaling it down than just receiving it in native format. Lip sync problems plague HD broadcasts in general, and it's hit or miss a lot. I'll bet that the problem was on the broadcast end of Leno. It has nothing to do with your picture mode settings at all.

tedhealy

01-12-05, 05:31 PM

Thanks much for the reply jedi. I guess I got lucky with my install. The guy set it up, made a call to home base, fired it up and it worked. Seemed very knowledgable and the whole process went smoothly. He did a brief overview of the menu and options and was done in under 30 minutes.

I'm a tivo user so the dvr functionality is old hat...I really can't watch tv without a tivo like device anymore. I guess I'll try a ratshack bi-amp tonight.

DroptheRemote

01-12-05, 08:20 PM

abc,

I'm happy to share my opinion on the options for subscription TV, but bear in mind that they're just my opinion, based on my own needs and outlook. As others have pointed out here in the past, what works for one person (especially from a dollars/cents standpoint) may not work for someone else. One major variable is the number of televisions you need to connect.

Originally posted by abcward
ALTERNATIVE - DISH NET
- only 2 more HD channels [discovery and tnt] - thats not 'significant' in my dictionary
- I guess I should count ABC and WB but that gets back to the OTA issue. Read thru this thread's many pages....way too many complaints with antennas.
- HD DVR? Without taking out a loan?
I'd never had any exposure to DISH Network before seeing it in the homes of some of my calibration customers. In general, I have to say that I've come away from my brief encounters with DISH with a favorable impression. I'll admit that a big part of that is the fact that DISH was well ahead of the adoption curve on DVRs, and more than 2 years ago were providing very nice options with megastorage. They were also first with an HD DVR, though they need to be docked most of those points due to the problems with the 921.

Still, DISH seems to push the envelope to a greater degree than Charter or DirecTV. However, they've been in a funk, HD-wise, for nearly a year as it seems it's been that long since they added anything new, and even then it was TNT, which isn't that great unless you're an NBA fan.

DISH appears to be laying the groundwork for more HD, but I doubt they're going to be able to keep up with DirecTV over the mid- to long-term, barring an acquisition of VOOM.

Bottom line is that it's not a slam dunk, but I think DISH is worth a closer look.

ALTERNATIVE - DIRECTV
- significantly more national HD content - thumbs up.
- OTA issue...see above
- here's my only major gripe with D* = explain to me in this era of ever changing technological advancements why anyone would actually pay for receivers/dvrs at a premium price? Especially when it seems that 6 months later there is another 'must-have' receiver out that you, again, must pay for. $1k for a HD receiver when Charter offers it for nothing? Hard to explain that to a wife.
IMO, the obsolesence issue is a lot of hype. This seems to have come to the surface in the just the last week, with the announcement that DirecTV is laying the groundwork for the transition to MPEG-4 as a means to add more (HD) program content.

I think it's only fair to bear in mind that this is the first major technology disruption since DirecTV was launched around 10 years ago. I think that's actually a very credible track record, though it may have been an aberration and it may have been luck. In any event, I don't know of many cases where someone isn't likely to be able to get 3 years useful service out of DirecTV hardware (I'm still using one of the first-generation Sony receivers), and I think that applies equally to anyone who is feeling irked that their HD TiVo won't support MPEG-4.

I really do see this as a contrived issue, because most everyone who bought the HD-TiVo knew and probably planned that they would acquire their local stations via an antenna. So really, how big is the inconvenience, since DirecTV is (wisely IMO) starting the transition with the HD locals and probably won't begin converting non-local HD programs for at least a year, and maybe longer? I would definitely see this in a different light if DTV announced tomorrow that they're adding ESPN-2 HD in MPEG-4 format, but I'm highly doubtful there's much chance of anything like that happening near term, though there's no question that there's going to be a few bumps along the way with DirecTV over the next few years.

But this probably applies to DISH equally.

Of course, I understand that a hardware outlay is an issue, and there's probably no easy way to get your wife to see this as a good thing, but here's something that maybe you haven't considered.

I've heard more than one person here remark that they're much happier to rent equipment from Charter and get the latest and greatest when it comes along on Charter's dime. Seems to me that overlooks the fact that Charter isn't exactly known for joyriding on the cutting edge, so while you might save money or grief by going the rental route, I think you have to factor in a large dollop of future frustration, because you know and I know that Charter isn't going to conform to the whims and desires of the early adopter crowd here.

ALTERNATIVE - VOOM
- no DVR
- no FSMW
- no sunny longterm outlook
I've been thinking lately that I've probably done VOOM a disservice by noting and repeating the viability issue whenever someone says they're considering switching. I'm not saying that anything I say has any real influence over other people's buying decisions, but obviously saying things like "VOOM is unlikely to hang any stockings over the chimney next December" can't be considered a "buy signal" either. More to the point, I want there be as many alternatives as possible, because competition (not the FCC, and definitely not our witless reps in Washington) is the best hope for keeping some sort of check on price increases for these services.

But all that said, a decision to subscribe to VOOM carries the biggest scope for disruption. The key thing there is that if you're seriously thinking that you'd like to sign up for VOOM, you should do it while they're still offering cheap installation and reasonable hardware rental fees.

If you have to make more than a modest upfront outlay to go with VOOM, I think it's a bad proposition, but so far at least VOOM recognizes that and is trying to minimize that obstacle to subscribing.

Again, the above is just my own take and I'm sure there other pros/cons that others may want to offer.

jedi35

01-12-05, 08:55 PM

Surprise, surprise....no show on the return visit by my Moxi installers. I have their cell number, but they are not answering. Charter knows that these guys neglected to do some important step, and promised me that I would get another visit before the day was over. I waited for nothing. I'm on the phone(on hold) with Charter yet again....

The csr just came back on and informed me that Charter shouldn't have sent these guys out in the first place, since they are subcontractors, and not direct employees of Charter. In other words, he didn't think that they were authorized to even do Moxi installs. Great.

redwine

01-12-05, 11:05 PM

Here is my Charter horror story:

Last weekend I had to work from home on Saturday night to help implement a banking network change with my fellow engineers in Belgium. I can work from home using my laptop from work and a encrypted VPN to my company. I fired up the laptop and noticed the Charter broadband INTERNET connection was unstable. It slowed down and disconnected about every 10 minutes! This sucked since it have to re-log in and validate several SecurID passcodes every time this happens. I called Charter.....they saw noise on the line and can be out by Tuesday!!!!

I went downstairs and disconnected and reconnected everything. No help. I replaced a splitter. It worked somewhat better!! I was able limp by and perform the banking network implementation with Belgium.

Sunday evening the HD and digital channels started "blinking" out about every five seconds. It went on for hours. I called Charter. "It sounds like a problem with your line."

Monday morning the broadband worked great. The video was better. Charter called me. "We have been working in your area. Are things better?" I said yes but the video still "blinks" out about every three minutes.

Tuesday the "guy" showed up. I was at work so the wife dealt with him. First he said my modem was bad. It was working that morning! Then he said it was actually OK. I asked the wife to have him focus on the video. He saw the "blinking". He said he knew what that was, "the HD STB is bad". He replaced it with a used one he found in his truck. No sound on the TV but all the original cables are hooked up! He turned my 5.1 stereo on and there was sound. I instructed him, via my wife, to turn the stereo off and find a STB where the sound works when only connected to a TV! He called his other buddies on Charter trucks and found another used HD STB.

Earlier in the day we discovered the guy had re-run the coax from the junction box near the street to my house. The cable is still lying on the grass and will be buried sometime next week if we are lucky.

I came home around five P.M. and my kids were complaining that they could not play their Warcraft games on the INTERNET. It was down. I suspected the guy did not re-connect something in the basement. I was shocked to see an old used modem had been swapped for my working modem! This thing had a piece of masking tape on it that said "2003 OK". It did not work! This guy stole my modem which I owned. I did not lease a Charter modem.

I called Charter. "We are sorry but cannot return your original modem tonight". I went out to Office Max and bought a new one. The Charter supervisor agreed to replace my modem with a new Charter one. He said they could not arrange to get my original modem back. Well.. this guy called in sick today and the day shift did not know what was going on. Oh my God!!!

Today I just noticed the used HD STB the guy replaced mine with displays the analog channels terribly. My old one was OK on channels 1-99.

I am at my wits end. These guys are all cheap contractors who are probably selling the working gear they swapped with junk when they make their house calls. The CSRs say they are powerless. Huh?!?!

Scott Tucker

01-13-05, 12:10 AM

redwine, that is not a horror story. It's simply a Charter story. Business as usual. As long as people keep paying their bills, why should they change? A couple of weeks ago I was gonna give 'em a shot and order broadband, but they couldn't even get the install right. Then they charged me for a modem that i never got. Between that and your post I am convinced. I will not get Internet through Charter. It took me 10 years to even think about trying cable again. I wonder how many more years 'till I try again? Sorry for your problems redwine.

Scott

redwine

01-13-05, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Scott Tucker
redwine, that is not a horror story. It's simply a Charter story. Business as usual. As long as people keep paying their bills, why should they change? A couple of weeks ago I was gonna give 'em a shot and order broadband, but they couldn't even get the install right. Then they charged me for a modem that i never got. Between that and your post I am convinced. I will not get Internet through Charter. It took me 10 years to even think about trying cable again. I wonder how many more years 'till I try again? Sorry for your problems redwine.

Scott

Scott,

I had DSL through Southwestern Bell starting around late 1999 to 2003. I also was an early DirectTV subscriber starting in 1996 thru 2003 (expensive in those days). When I moved to my present house I took the easy route and ordered everything through Charter.

My observations are that broadband is better with Charter but the video experience sucks. I do like the local government channel just to see the Ofallon officials bow to the money. I guess I could live without this entertainment.

falstaffpac

01-13-05, 01:28 AM

I believe this is my first post to this thread, but I've been following it for a very long time. I made the switch from Charter to DTV about 1 1/2 years ago. It was the best decision I ever made. I experienced ceasless problems with Charter. That, coupled with their never-ending rate hikes just aggravated me to no end. And, those receivers aren't free. I think I was paying $9/month for their digital receiver.

Since I made the move to DTV, I've fallen in love with Tivo. We have 3 of them, one of which is an HDTivo.

I really am sorry to hear the experiences others are having with Charter. I've already been down that road and remember how frustrating it was.

Sorry for the rant. Not a very good introduction, this being my first post after reading this thread for the past 2 years. Thanks for all the valuable information. I'll chime in again in 2007 :D

marlowsa

01-13-05, 11:37 AM

Regarding the standard analog stations via Charter and Moxi - What are the odds that the reason why it may be worse (besides the conversion to digital) be attributed to the fact that the TV is accepting a HD signal (in my case 1080i). So therefore all the cleanup that my TV would normally do with a standard analog signal is not active? Why would it be when the incoming signal is HD. I believe my Mits 65" has many features that would normally make an analog incoming signal look much better.

Scott

rbkb

01-13-05, 02:29 PM

As poor abcward can attest to, I have been trying to negotiate a better deal with Charter than what I have presently. I didn't want to get rid of their service, basically due to the unknowns of new providers. Well, last night, I finally had it. Talking to family members who have DSL, they are all getting 1.1 MPS at a minimum through their $26.99/month service. I tested my speed through Charter, and I was only getting 398kbps for $29.99/month. So, I get 66% slower Internet, and pay $3/month more.

The point of this post...
For you who have DSL, what speeds are you getting? I know there are many variables for the speed (distance, cable condition, etc.).

For you who have both DSL and cable modems, which is better in your opinion?

ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!

skippy_rq

01-13-05, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by rbkb
As poor abcward can attest to, I have been trying to negotiate a better deal with Charter than what I have presently. I didn't want to get rid of their service, basically due to the unknowns of new providers. Well, last night, I finally had it. Talking to family members who have DSL, they are all getting 1.1 MPS at a minimum through their $26.99/month service. I tested my speed through Charter, and I was only getting 398kbps for $29.99/month. So, I get 66% slower Internet, and pay $3/month more.

The point of this post...
For you who have DSL, what speeds are you getting? I know there are many variables for the speed (distance, cable condition, etc.).

For you who have both DSL and cable modems, which is better in your opinion?

ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!

I have had experience with Charter cable modem, SBC DSL, and CentuyTel DSL. By far, CenturyTel is the worst. I have the 3mb service from CenturyTel and after my promotion is over they want 59.99. Not only that but I keep getting constant drops in service and the speed has NEVER tested out to anything above 1.5mb. Charter is now available and I have an install set with them. I previously used Charter before we moved. Charter's service was good for cable modem. My experience with SBC was the best. Now I will say that I work for SBC but could only get the service when I was between houses in an apartment since I live in a CenturyTel service area. I had SBC's expert level plan which was 6mb down and 1mb up. SBC now offers different speed tiers and 3mb is 34.95. If you want more info, PM me and I can prequal you and help out.

-Rich

GlendaleHDTV

01-13-05, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by marlowsa
Regarding the standard analog stations via Charter and Moxi - What are the odds that the reason why it may be worse (besides the conversion to digital) be attributed to the fact that the TV is accepting a HD signal (in my case 1080i). So therefore all the cleanup that my TV would normally do with a standard analog signal is not active? Why would it be when the incoming signal is HD. I believe my Mits 65" has many features that would normally make an analog incoming signal look much better.

Scott

I would say the Moxi converting everything to 1080i probably adds to the problem. I guess we'll know for sure when the 3.2 software upgrade comes out (supposedly around March 1st accoring to Moxiguy). This upgrade will provide for "native mode passthrough" and let your TV do the scaling.

abcward

01-13-05, 03:09 PM

From what MoxiGuy says the true problem is that Charter's channels 2-99 are analog channels. To buffer/record any television content, the stream must be digital. So these analog channels are converted to digital before we see it. It is this conversion that degrades the pq. This is also why the digital channels [channels 100 and above] look so much better than the lower channels.

tedhealy

01-13-05, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by rbkb
I tested my speed through Charter, and I was only getting 398kbps for $29.99/month. So, I get 66% slower Internet, and pay $3/month more.

Are you getting 398 kiloBYTES per second? Or 398 kiloBITS per second?

If 398 KBytesps then you are getting a little over 3 megabits, much faster than the 1.1 megabits minimum on dsl you mentioned. I'm getting a little under 3 megabits with charter...something along the lines of 360 KBps download, or about 2.9 megabits. If you are only getting 398 Kbitsps, then you are getting screwed because you are surfing at 56k modem speeds.

hall316

01-13-05, 03:48 PM

if you have charter, you can go here and check your speed.
http://thebigpipe.net/

or you can always check your speed here. You will need to have Java installed on your computer.
http://www.dslreports.com/stest

Scott Tucker

01-13-05, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by skippy_rq
I have had experience with Charter cable modem, SBC DSL, and CentuyTel DSL. By far, CenturyTel is the worst. I have the 3mb service from CenturyTel and after my promotion is over they want 59.99. Not only that but I keep getting constant drops in service and the speed has NEVER tested out to anything above 1.5mb. Charter is now available and I have an install set with them. I previously used Charter before we moved. Charter's service was good for cable modem. My experience with SBC was the best. Now I will say that I work for SBC but could only get the service when I was between houses in an apartment since I live in a CenturyTel service area. I had SBC's expert level plan which was 6mb down and 1mb up. SBC now offers different speed tiers and 3mb is 34.95. If you want more info, PM me and I can prequal you and help out.

-Rich

Yeah, i also have Centurytel, and the service is constantly dropping out, so i will have to reboot the modem. My speeds never get above 385kbps. Wonder what they would say if I asked for a rate reduction since i am paying for speeds that i never get?

Rich, how's your antenna deal coming along?

Scott

Joe Smith

01-13-05, 04:12 PM

I have charter and get 3meg service with no interruptions. I really like their INTERNET service. I know they are testing 5meg in some of their markets. I wish the TV side was as good.

MSloss

01-13-05, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Scott Tucker
Yeah, i also have Centurytel, and the service is constantly dropping out, so i will have to reboot the modem. My speeds never get above 385kbps. Wonder what they would say if I asked for a rate reduction since i am paying for speeds that i never get?
Scott

I had SBC DSL in Ballwin from the day they rolled it out (1999?) until I moved last May, and was very happy with it. Since I moved to a new development in Dardenne Prairie, cable wasn't an option so I reluctantly went with Centurytel DSL out of necessity. I signed up for 768K and for the first month was constantly on the phone with their tech support due to slow speed and periods where the PPOE just failed to authenticate. They finally replaced the modem and I haven't had any problems since and now get pretty close to the 768K. I am paying about $40 less for phone and DSL than I was with SBC, and at the moment have no compliants.

[ON_TOPIC Mode ON]

With my D* service, good OTA, and HD Tivo (more on that later), I have no desire or reason to even consider Charter for internet or television service whenever they do make it available where I am.

As for the HD Tivo, I started having video freezes in Dec. and believe the hard drive has a bad spot as others on the Tivo forum have complained about. I did a full clear and reset a couple of weeks, since I knew D* would do nothing until I had tried that. It started again this week so I called D* for a replacement. They won't replace it until a tech can come out and verify that it appears to be hardware and not a signal issue. Very frustrating since I have not read of anyboy else having to take that step, but I have them coming tomorrow and hope he is semi-intelligent enough to know what he is looking for.

Mike

Randy Smith

01-13-05, 05:58 PM

Could anyone in the St Peters area let me know what antenna works good for you? Thanks
Randy

redwine

01-13-05, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by marlowsa
Regarding the standard analog stations via Charter and Moxi - What are the odds that the reason why it may be worse (besides the conversion to digital) be attributed to the fact that the TV is accepting a HD signal (in my case 1080i). So therefore all the cleanup that my TV would normally do with a standard analog signal is not active? Why would it be when the incoming signal is HD. I believe my Mits 65" has many features that would normally make an analog incoming signal look much better.

Scott

My old DCT5100 was replaced with a used DCT6200. Now my analog channels 1-99 have horizontal noise on them. The DCT5100 conversion, while not as good as "direct to TV", was acceptable to me.

Does anyone know of a difference between the DCT5100 and DCT6200? Is there a downloadable firmware upgrade that might help? I don't think Charter will help much. I am going to demand a new STB and see what happens.

I still have not received a modem from Charter for the one they stole.

Scott Tucker

01-13-05, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Randy Smith
Could anyone in the St Peters area let me know what antenna works good for you? Thanks
Randy

I use the Terk TV32 UFH antenna in my attic and it works perfect for me.

Scott

Scott Tucker

01-13-05, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by MSloss
I had SBC DSL in Ballwin from the day they rolled it out (1999?) until I moved last May, and was very happy with it. Since I moved to a new development in Dardenne Prairie, cable wasn't an option so I reluctantly went with Centurytel DSL out of necessity. I signed up for 768K and for the first month was constantly on the phone with their tech support due to slow speed and periods where the PPOE just failed to authenticate. They finally replaced the modem and I haven't had any problems since and now get pretty close to the 768K. I am paying about $40 less for phone and DSL than I was with SBC, and at the moment have no compliants.

[ON_TOPIC Mode ON]

With my D* service, good OTA, and HD Tivo (more on that later), I have no desire or reason to even consider Charter for internet or television service whenever they do make it available where I am.

As for the HD Tivo, I started having video freezes in Dec. and believe the hard drive has a bad spot as others on the Tivo forum have complained about. I did a full clear and reset a couple of weeks, since I knew D* would do nothing until I had tried that. It started again this week so I called D* for a replacement. They won't replace it until a tech can come out and verify that it appears to be hardware and not a signal issue. Very frustrating since I have not read of anyboy else having to take that step, but I have them coming tomorrow and hope he is semi-intelligent enough to know what he is looking for.

Mike

Just tested my speed, and it is 694kbps. I guess it's getting better. I will have to retract my earlier post. Way to go Centurytel.
Bummer about your HD Tivo problems. Good luck.

Scott

grogs

01-14-05, 12:20 AM

I am in Ballwin and have SBC DSL here.
I have the cheap plan (1500kbps down/384kbps up).

Here is what dslreport speed test shows.

2005-01-14 00:01:38 EST: 1222 / 312
Your download speed : 1252216 bps, or 1222 kbps.
A 152.8 KB/sec transfer rate.
Your upload speed : 320156 bps, or 312 kbps.

SBC Speed test
Download = 1.135 Mbps
Upload = 327.33 kbps

Now the bad news:

From: ERR 2005/01/13 09:11:34 CST
To: INF 2005/01/13 18:08:54 CST
I had 12 disconnects in my log. This is a daily thing now for the last few weeks.

When I don't get a disconnect I am fine. But when I get them then it is bad.
I called SBC tech support and they don't know what the problem is.

I can ping the DNS server and get timeouts when things are slow. They say the cable is good. I am not ready to buy another home portal but I may have to.

I did not like cable modem when I had it before, but that was not in this state. So when I moved here I went for Dish Network and DSL.
For HDTV I went for OTA setup.

I may have no other choice but to switch from DSL simply because I can not get it fixed.

Right now for me HDTV OTA is good, very good. DSL has been better.

Greg

jedi35

01-14-05, 12:56 AM

I had SBC DSL out here by the airport for 2 or 3 years before Charter wired my area for pipeline and other digital services. SBC charged me their entry price of $50 per month for the entire time, even when they were signing up new customers at $26.99!! I was told that I was on the skirts of what they considered serviceable, and my max speed was about 690K. My friends with dsl were easily getting 1.2 and 1.5, stuff like that.

I've been quite happy with pipeline from Charter. When it was first installed, the line wasn't capped, and I was getting about 5 megs. Now I get 3 megs, which is what I'm paying for, and I'm paying less than what SBC was charging me for inferior service.

My Moxi box is finally operating properly with program guide information. I was waiting for a return visit from the tech, but after several calls to Charter last night, I finally got someone who knew what he was talking about. He said that even though my installers didn't do all the correct steps for correct installation, my Moxi would receive a fresh download in the middle of each night, and would update the guide info. He was correct, and I was still watching tv when the guide popped on. Cool.

I must say that I am enjoying using this dvr. A bigger hdd would be nice. The "intro to Moxi" loaded on the box is only about 5 minutes long, and does not address advanced operations of the box. Users are left to figure out a lot on their own. Once I put the box in 480i mode, my Pioneer rptv can put the picture in pillar box mode for 4:3 material. However, I have not been able to achieve a pillar box mode when veiwing things on my Benq pj. This pj doesn't have the ability to generate the pillars, so the source box needs to do it. My regular Charter box can do the pillars. Does anyone know if the new update will give Moxi this ability?