Hey Bruce, the loud commercials on 11-1 aren't limited to Cardinal baseball. That's been going on for at least a year with the WB prime time HD lineup. Whether it's Smallville or Reba, when the HD show breaks for local SD commercials, I lunge for the volume down button. It's strictly for the local commercials, the national WB commercials don't have that problem.

Doug and John, thanks for the good ideas regarding KSDK-DT and my receiver. Frankly though, this is an issue I'm not in a really big hurry to solve. The only NBC show I watch regularly is Meet the Press, which doesn't have that problem. The few times I bother to tune in Leno just don't seem worth the effort. If 24, Lost, or Alias were on NBC, I'd think differently. :D

I agree that the picture looked great, but I thought I had some sound issues. Seemed like I was only getting sound from my center channel.

And yes, the commercials were noticably louder.


Doug: The guide looks good.

Scott,

You're 100% right about how to deal with an uninformed or lazy salesperson.

But while you and others here have a strong foundation of knowledge, the typical first-time HDTV buyer does not have that information going in. So when a relatively clueless consumer hears a sales guy or gal say there's not a lot of HD programming available, they usually take them at their word and don't know how to go about finding the actual facts.

I find this situation incredibly perverse and while it isn't as common with sales staff as it was a couple of years ago, I still hear it frequently enough that I'm developing permanent frown lines.

So true Doug. It's sad really that there are actually consumers out there that think everything they watch on there new HDTV is HD. Just the other day a Sales guy at Circuit told me that by the end of next year ALL programming will be HD. I tried to politely tell him he was mistaken, but he got defensive and said he has been selling electronics for 10 years. Your right, the average consumer will believe him and so goes the mis-information. It really would be tough to not know anything about this stuff and walk into a store to get a new TV today. It is all very intimidating. My in-laws asked my to help them pick out a bunch of stuff next weekend. They are lucky I know a few good salespeople to lead them down the correct path. Should be fun helping them spend their money on all the cool toys.

Scott

Joe,

Thanks for the positive feedback on the guide.

Can you give me more specific information on what you'd like to see in terms of receivers needed for the various options. I'm not sure that fits into the table, but might be something that could be done as a legend or addendum.

Joe,

Thanks for the positive feedback on the guide.

Can you give me more specific information on what you'd like to see in terms of receivers needed for the various options. I'm not sure that fits into the table, but might be something that could be done as a legend or addendum.

Doug,

Probably, I should have said row instead of column. Maybe another row just below the carrier row at the top or at the bottom (or both), listing the most current high def receivers/PVR's. For example, list for Dish Network the Model 811 as a high def receiver and the 942 as a high def PVR.

Obviously, for those of us who have been into home theater for a while, this is not going to be new info, but for a newcomer to the forum, or someone trying to make sense of the transition to digital TV, your table brings together lots of useful information in a concise format.

The reason I think it would be so useful for salespeople is that I've heard so many Best Buy and Circuit City employees giving out bad information to people asking questions. It's not going to answer all problems, but it could serve as a quick education in what's available and what consumers need to make use of their high definition sets. Expecially at Best Buy, the turnover is so fast with the young salespeople, any aid they can get would have to be helpful. I read in one of the home theater mags recently that one of the most common complaints of retailers is that they have a large return rate for high def sets. People get them home and are disappointed. They return the sets, and the retailer finds out they were disappointed because they didn't have a high definition receiver. Someone said that to combat that he almost wished they required people to prove they had a high definition source to buy a high def TV. Now, maybe Best Buy might balk at lisitng competitors' products on such a list (they sell DirectTV but not Dish Network products), but Dish, DirectTV and Charter customers all will buy high def TV's from them.

The reason I like your idea so much is that puts all this info into a such a concise format. So, a high def novice wants some answers - pull out Doug's list. The person wants the locals but can't put up an antenna. OK, can do that with Charter - except, and it's right there, not ALL the locals. Also wants NFL Sunday ticket, but can't put up a small dish (lives in an apartment). Can't get it with Charter, so he's out of luck on that one. Is the tradeoff worth it? Not for him, so he waits until he can move to a place where he can get DirectTV. Another person likes travel and the arts but could care less about NFL football. She also wants to be able to watch Lost in high def on KDNL. Can't get Lost on Charter or much in the way of travel or the arts on DirectTV, but, hey, there are the Voom channels on Dish Network (Equator and Gallery). She can put up a small dish and an antenna, so Dish looks like a good fit for her. Set a delivery date for that high def TV. (She'll also need a Dish 942 PVR, because she's out of town a lot and wants to record while she's away - doesn't want to miss out on the next arctic animal J.J. Abrams decides to put in Hawaii.) This last scenario makes me think that a good addendum for the list would be a synopsis of what each of these channels specializes in, especially for Voom channels like Gallery and Equator.

Again, I think it's a good idea, too, because it would help raise consciousness about the holes in programming that each provider has. Just because I live in this apartment building, why can't I get Sunday football in high def? Listen up, Dish, I'd like to get more than just HBO and Showtime movie channels. (The Voom movie channels are OK, but there are only so many times I can watch the same 12 movies.) The more people who are educated about what's available and what's not, the more voices will be raised to the providers. The greater the number of customers clamoring to the providers for more variety, the better the chance they act sooner rather than later.

I've always felt that one of the biggest impediments to the transition to digital TV has been the pathetic effort to inform the public about what is happening. Your table could be a great educational tool.

Joe Clark

To DroptheRemote;
"Thanks for the positive feedback on the guide.

Can you give me more specific information on what you'd like to see in terms of receivers needed for the various options. I'm not sure that fits into the table, but might be something that could be done as a legend or addendum. "


I would highly recommend the 3410a OTA receiver. I have it in the living room and love it.

Has anyone noticed that during today's HD Cards game that there's a very, very light line on the left side of the screen? It's pretty much where the 4x3 demarcation would be.

At first, I thought I had some burn-in action going on my set (gasp!), but I've since checked it against a full white field as well as other programming, and it's not visible. On the ballgame it's fairly easy to see.

Strangely, there's nothing like this on the right side of the screen. I wonder if this is something that's supposed to be visible only on the production side...

If anyone has recorded the game and can go back, let me know if you see it. I haven't rewound and only noticed beginning with the top of the ninth inning and haven't gone back from there to check to see if it's been there the whole time. I also deleted my recording of last night's game, so I can't check that, either.

I didn't notice the line, but I thought the score box was way to far in to the right.
It looks to me like they are still framing the picture and placing the graphics for 4x3. I understand the framing of the picture, but you would think they have to use 2 different computer overlays depending on the format.

But, perhaps they process the image, then downconvert the HD signal for SD. Whatever they do, I hate having the scorebox and the bug in the middle of the image...

Dave

Has anyone noticed that during today's HD Cards game that there's a very, very light line on the left side of the screen? It's pretty much where the 4x3 demarcation would be.

At first, I thought I had some burn-in action going on my set (gasp!), but I've since checked it against a full white field as well as other programming, and it's not visible. On the ballgame it's fairly easy to ses......

I noticed it too. Rather ghost-like, but definitely there. Only on the left side. The quality was so great that I forgot to gripe about this rather minor issue.

At KSDK.com, they have officially announced the "new" digital all weather channel. They say it will "soon" be on Charter. Is this an HD channel? Is Charter really going to add a 24 hour HD weather channel? Maybe they will just add it to its digital family tier, and it won't be HD.

Doug, I see it too on my 42" Mits. Not sure what it is, but you have a good eye it is very hard to see it.

Scott

I'd be willing a bet a large amount of money that the line is due to some slack graphics work. It looks to me to be the edge of an overlay (if you notice, all the graphics ended at that line or where the standard transmission would start). A lot of times when someone removes or replaces a color to make transparencies in a graphics editor like photoshop it will have an edge on it that is noticable when placed on top of a larger image.

oby,

KSDK's weather channel is most definitely NOT an HD channel.

There is only so much available capacity in the 6 mHz bandwidth provided for HD (or NTSC) broadcasting -- once you try to cram more bits down the pipe than the capacity of the pipe, something has to give, most likely meaning that random bits will be tossed away and picture quality will suffer across the board.

At the risk of oversimplifying, here's an example.

If you have an HD program on the main channel that's an art gallery tour and then a standard-definition weather channel or traffic camera on a subchannel, there would probably be little image quality loss on the HD channel, because many of the art gallery images are going to be static, and the bits necessary to create those static pictures would not be need to be sent every time a new field or frame was created (this concept is at the heart of MPEG compression).

However, you'd probably find that when the entire picture changes in the art gallery program, such as when the camera pans from one painting or sculpture to another, that there would be perceivable pixellation, because there likely wouldn't be enough bits immediately available to accurately reproduce the changing fields/frames that make up that image, due to the bits needed to simulataneously produce the subchannel image.

Now, instead of the art gallery HD program, substitute an episode of "Las Vegas" or an "Arena Football" match, and the deterioration in picture quality will be much more obvious, because there's going to be a great deal more motion and therefore changes from one field/frame of video to the next. In this situation, the SD channel's need for bits is going to starve the HD channel and HD picture quality will suffer.

Of course, this could work in the other direction, too. If the weather channel was largely static, say nothing but a radar map that rarely changes, the bits required would be small and there might be no perceivable picture quality loss on the HD channel. But when both the SD and HD picture include motion, there probably won't be enough bits available and both would suffer.

Multicasting is a great idea, when there's no HD broadcasting taking place, such as during daytime hours when it's mostly just standard-definition talk shows, game shows and soap operas. At that point, you could probably have two, three or even four SD channels running simultaneously and they would all look reasonably good.

But adding an SD subchannel alongside a typical HD channel, and the results are going to be regrettable for viewers.

FWIW, I tried earlier to take a look at KSDK's local weather subchannel, but all I received on the available subchannels was blank screens.

So it seems that the same guy responsible for flipping the HD switch has earned himself the additional responsibility of keeping the weather channel up and going. Maybe that also explains why Charter and KSDK were able to work out a deal on this addition so quickly... ;)

Doug, The channel is there and I see it fine on my Dish 811. I noticed it Friday night. Fairly static but why risk messing up HD quality on the main channel? Seems rather foolish to me. Especially with the many other weather resources currently available.

The channel is national, and it can take who-knows-how-long for St. Louis weather to roll across the screen. What's the point???????? As you know, Channel 9 has 3 channels going at once and because of this, their "HD" channel looks no better than 480P. That's NOT high Definition!!!

I sure hope KSDK doesn't go down that road. They have already managed to mess up 5.1 audio on occasion.

KSDK Info:

KSDK-WX is currently using about 2.5 Mb/s of bandwidth.

Their main channel has dropped from about 16 Mb/s to 13.5 Mb/s to make room.

Starbug

On my ATI HDTV WONDER 5-2 shows up just fine.

It is a national effort but it includes specific local content.

Notice it say's: "St Louis Metro 5 Day Forecast".

http://img123.echo.cx/img123/2928/p19ve.th.jpg (http://img123.echo.cx/my.php?image=p19ve.jpg)

Very cool stuff...

I like knowing that it is there since when we loss power here I have about 1/2 hour before my computers go to sleep from the UPS's. At least I can see the local weather on demand this way even when the lights are out!

Greg

KSDK Info:

KSDK-WX is currently using about 2.5 Mb/s of bandwidth.

Their main channel has dropped from about 16 Mb/s to 13.5 Mb/s to make room.



Wow. Even WRBU (15mb/s) uses more than that doing only 480i!

I don't know about you guys, but there is plenty of available programming I would rather see than weather in HD. (Except weather disasters, hurricanes and stuff. Save that for Discovery HD)

I wish they would put the financial backing toward actually getting the forecast right (or even close) for a change, instead of a clearer picture of their incorrect forecast.

But I digress...

:-)

I called Charter today to ask about possibly getting a second HD Box, and they said that the HD boxes are back-ordered by over 700 customers, and it would be at least two months. I did'nt ask about the DVR, though--maybe it is more readily available.

The quality on 5-1 has suffered because of the addition of the sub channel. While watching Medium last night I saw many pixilization issues. I had very few issues before 5-2 was introduced.

Steve

I don't know about you guys, but there is plenty of available programming I would rather see than weather in HD. (Except weather disasters, hurricanes and stuff. Save that for Discovery HD)

I wish they would put the financial backing toward actually getting the forecast right (or even close) for a change, instead of a clearer picture of their incorrect forecast.

But I digress...

:-)

With you on that.

Originally Posted by Starbug
KSDK Info:

KSDK-WX is currently using about 2.5 Mb/s of bandwidth.

Their main channel has dropped from about 16 Mb/s to 13.5 Mb/s to make room.

The video quality for KSDK-WX is not even as good as KETC-DT 9-3. I suspect some of us remember when KETC was testing 9-4 (with PBSYou), and the video quality was less than adequate.

It tends to look very pixelated.


Doug, nice reader for HDTV....

Doug, The channel is there and I see it fine on my Dish 811. I noticed it Friday night. Fairly static but why risk messing up HD quality on the main channel? Seems rather foolish to me. Especially with the many other weather resources currently available.

The channel is national, and it can take who-knows-how-long for St. Louis weather to roll across the screen. What's the point???????? As you know, Channel 9 has 3 channels going at once and because of this, their "HD" channel looks no better than 480P. That's NOT high Definition!!!

I sure hope KSDK doesn't go down that road. They have already managed to mess up 5.1 audio on occasion.

The appear to have fixed that little problem. When I first saw the post here, I tuned it in...and it was indeed rotating through the entire national list. I recall seeing St. Louis once. The fixed that, and now you're hard pressed to see any national cities like Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, etc. But Memphis shows up a bunch, though. Do they plan on expanding the list of local municipalities a bit more....Bowling Green isn't exactly close by....

The quality on 5-1 has suffered because of the addition of the sub channel. While watching Medium last night I saw many pixilization issues. I had very few issues before 5-2 was introduced.

Steve

I sure hope you're wrong about the quality....but I fear you're not. If the locals cannot resist the urge to fill their DT spectrum with quantity rather than quality, this will quickly become a slippery slope. I can see it now.......

:D :D "KMOV Channel 4 --- The station with 10 channels. Just for you, St. Louis!" :D :D

Got a quicky question. I have a analog Sanyo 20" TV. I would like to be able to get digital signal OTA when I move to STL pretty soon. Would I only have to get a digital reciever to get the signals, I have a good indoor antenna so no prob there. And is there any good recievers under say $250?

Jhamps,

Samsung sells an OTA-only digital receiver for right at $250. I believe the model number is SIR T-451.

I assume that you're planning on feeding your Sanyo with S-Video or composite. If so, that should work for you.

that's correct. I plan to use S-video

You'd need a digital receiver, with its output set to 480i SD.

Wal-Mart actually had some on clearance for less than $100 a couple of weeks ago. Don't know if there's any left.

You'd need a digital receiver, with its output set to 480i SD.

Wal-Mart actually had some on clearance for less than $100 a couple of weeks ago. Don't know if there's any left.

Has anyone seen any in the St. Louis area? I've checked the Maplewood and Kirkwood Wal Marts and couldn't find any.

This looks to be a pretty well written article about Charters conversion to a digital signal. It's on stltoday.com so I guess it will be in the Wednesday Post-Dispatch:

Charter upgrade is set for some TV's
By Jerri Stroud
Of the Post-Dispatch
Tuesday, Jun. 28 2005

Charter Communications Inc. is converting its St. Louis-area systems to digital
technology, promising clearer pictures to many customers and more channels and
services in the future, the company said Tuesday.

Customers with digital and high-definition televisions should see a difference
on non-HD channels when Charter begins transmitting digitized analog
programming later this summer. The digitizing process clears up some of the
graininess in the picture. The company also will encode the sound to make it
compatible with surround-sound systems.

Charter, based in Town and Country, serves about 500,000 St. Louis area cable
customers in Missouri and Illinois. Nationwide, about 45 percent of Charter's 6
million customers have digital cable service.

The conversion won't affect customers who subscribe to analog basic or expanded
basic service. They will continue to receive pictures compatible with their
sets for the foreseeable future.

"We're simulcasting," said Mano Nakis, a Charter marketing manager. "Any
customer with a digital set-top box will get a digital feed. Customers with
analog boxes will get the analog feed."

Jim Renken, Charter's general manager for the St. Louis area, called the
digital conversion "a giant step in the evolution of video entertainment."

Charter, the nation's fourth-largest cable company, is facing stiff competition
for video customers from satellite providers, who provide an all-digital
service. In addition, it competes with telephone companies such as SBC
Communications Inc. for telephone and high-speed Internet access customers.

The company also is struggling with a mountain of debt. While the digital
service could save money in the long run, the motivation for offering it isn't
economic. Rather, the company says it wants to go digital because the signals
aren't prone to ghosting, snowy or grainy pictures, or vertical and horizontal
lines that can occur in analog pictures. Digital service also will give
customers easier and faster access to new services and features, and Charter's
service will be more compatible with cable cards in HD televisions and with
other consumer devices.

Charter now offers nine channels of HD programming out of a total of more than
94 digital tier channels. But the 81 channels in Charter's expanded basic tier
are all analog. This summer, Charter will start converting those channels to
digital format, starting with 25 channels, including ESPN, CNBC, HGTV, Lifetime
and BET. Eventually, all 81 channels will be digitized, said Larry Hart,
project manager.

St. Louis is the third Charter market - and the third in the nation - to get
the digital technology. Charter switched Long Beach, Calif., to digital
technology a year ago, then brought the technology to Madison, Wis., in March.
Other cable companies are testing digital systems but haven't converted any
systems yet.

Customer response has been positive in the two digital markets, said Anita
Lamont, a company spokeswoman.

Customers won't need new equipment to get the digitized pictures, and Charter
won't raise rates as a result of going digital, Nakis said.

Beyond an improved picture, the digitized pictures will allow customers to
record more hours of programming on Charter's digital video recorders, known as
DVRs. The recorders can hold about 30 hours of analog programming. With
digital, their capacity rises to a little over 50 hours, said Mark Dickinson,
advanced services development manager.

As more programming is transmitted digitally, Charter expects to be able to
offer more channels and more advanced services to customers in the future.
Digital programming uses Charter's capacity more efficiently, allowing it to
offer more channels and services.

The biggest change will occur when the company no longer has to transmit analog
programming. The original deadline for all-digital was in December 2006, but
Congress and regulators are expected to extend that to Jan. 1, 2009. The
extension would give consumers more time to acquire digital television sets and
give broadcasters and others more time to convert their technology.


What it means:

For analog cable users, nothing will change for the foreseeable future.

For digital cable users, picture quality will improve, sound will be compatible
with surround-sound systems, and more programs can be recorded on Charter's
digital video recorders.

Charter will offer digitized versions of the following channels later this
summer:

E! Entertainment, CNBC, CMT, Animal Planet, HGTV, Lifetime, ESPN, ESPN2, Speed
Channel, SoapNet, TNT, GSN, Fox Movie Channel, Women's Entertainment, National Geographic, Toon Disney, Style, Hallmark, G4, BET, Inspiration Network, Jewelry Television, CCIN, Regional Access, Local Programming

Reporter Jerri Stroud
E-mail: jerristroud@post-dispatch.com

I wonder if this means Dolby Digital?

My current Motorola box does not have a DD output even there's a logo on the front. Do newer boxes (including the Moxi) have a Dolby Digital out that actually works?

Article says, "later this summer". I thought all this was going to happen on "july 12", as per what my bill says. Maybe "july 12", is "later this summer", but why not just give the launch date?

The article on the front page of the Post Dispatch detailing Charter's plans to go all digital introduces a slightly new spin of this topic for me. Apparently, this will be a project completed in phases.

Watching this topic develop over the past few months with interest (have TIVO and would really enjoy a bit more picture quality in my recordings), I figured at the appointed hour, all of the channels 99 and below would be simulcasted. digitally. However, the article states they will start with 25 of the upper end with the balance of the 81 analog channels following sometime later.

Is there a technical reason for this approach or is this just a case of Gerri Stroud getting it wrong?

Steve

Has anyone seen any in the St. Louis area? I've checked the Maplewood and Kirkwood Wal Marts and couldn't find any.

It was at the one at Zumbehl and 70 that I saw them last. The one at Hwy K & Mexico rd had them as well. Don't know about currently.

If you guys re-read the bill message it states, "Starting on July 12." It doesn't say, On July 12th.

Just like the other areas, this will be launches in phases.

Mark

When was that? It's kind of a haul from the St. Louis city (where the scary people live) out to the vast whiteness that is St. Charles.


dweebe,

I don't want to start trouble, but your comment could offend some people. I just moved to O'Fallon - I have previously lived in Wildwood, Maplewood, Affton, etc. My current St. Charles county neighborhood varies widely in race... not that I spend much time on that subject.

Personally I think St. Louis as a whole suffers from far too much segregation. Anyone who has visited a city like Chicago or NYC notices how mixed that those cities are. It makes me ashamed of our city as a whole that we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Honestly, I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but how about we just leave out stereotypes on this thread?

Sorry for the rant....

IMHO he just about offended EVERYBODY with one quick sentence.

IMHO he just about offended EVERYBODY with one quick sentence.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I'll remove the post and will ban myself for a few months.

Sorry.

Changed mind.

What I said was wrong.

PM'ed an admin to have my account closed.

Bye.

IMHO he just about offended EVERYBODY with one quick sentence.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree. Wonder what kind of drugs would make someone post a statement like that. If he were a political candidate it'd be over. Man, I feel bad for him, as I know what it's like to put my foot in my mouth. Speaking of...guess I'd better shut up.

Scott

It was at the one at Zumbehl and 70 that I saw them last. The one at Hwy K & Mexico rd had them as well. Don't know about currently.

Jungerman Wal Mart had two this last weekend. One still shrink wrapped and one that looked like it had been returned. The box was in good shape and it had one of those security bungees around it.

Came up full price though. :confused:

Changed mind.

What I said was wrong.

PM'ed an admin to have my account closed.

Bye.


Dweebe, that's a noble apology. I, for one, hope you'll come back and continue to share in this forum.

dweebe,

I don't want to start trouble, but your comment could offend some people. I just moved to O'Fallon - I have previously lived in Wildwood, Maplewood, Affton, etc. My current St. Charles county neighborhood varies widely in race... not that I spend much time on that subject.

Personally I think St. Louis as a whole suffers from far too much segregation. Anyone who has visited a city like Chicago or NYC notices how mixed that those cities are. It makes me ashamed of our city as a whole that we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Honestly, I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but how about we just leave out stereotypes on this thread?

Sorry for the rant....


Actually Chicago is widely known as one of the most segregated cities in the US. I have relatives in Chicago and vist their 3 - 4 times a year. I can personally tell you that it is. In fact Chicago is much more segregated then St. Louis.

I don't mean to rehatch this but being a person of color I see it from a whole different perspective.

bigdaddy,

Thanks for chiming in - I am not the utmost authority on segregation, not at all. I was discussing St. Louis being so segregated from a recent article on STLToday.com and also from living here my entire life. Chicago, St. Louis, wherever...the point is that these racial issues are stupid no matter where it is.

I just would rather discuss electronics here than be confronted with racial stereotyping....know what I mean? White, black, asian, whatever....want to talk about my home theater setup? Pull up a chair and crack open a cold beverage...

Peace.

Hey thanks a LOT for the advice I got here. When I get a HDTV tuner, is it allowable to put in the Cable TV feed into an HDTV tuner, so that it can be one tuner for everything?

P.S. GO CARDINALS!!!!! Jimmy just hit a 3-run bomb for those who aren't watching the game.

If I recall correctly, Charter's HD feeds are all encrypted (even the locals), so the only STB's that will pick them up right are the ones from Charter itself.

Hi, all.

I live in the St. Louis Metro area and I'm looking to get involved in HD.

I currently subscribe to DirecTV and I'm not giong to shell out hte money necessary to get HD from them at this point. Nor do I want to change and subscribe to Charter.

But, the idea of free, over the air HD is quite appealing to me as I'm sure it is to everyone else =]

So, my question is pretty simple: How can I get started w/ the over the air HD for as little as possible. Watching HD would probably just be a toy, as I'll have to use my TiVo for most things.

Here's my setup: I have a 55'' Sony LCD television (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDF55WF655&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_hdtv_projectiontv) in my family room, which is in the basement of my house. I do not have any sort of an antenna system in my house at all.

What advice would you give me to quickly get started and to get started with as little capital as possible? Thanks, guys!

The following is an excerpt of a story that appeared in today's TVPredictions newsletter:

__________________________________

DIRECTV Cries Foul on HDTV Fees

The satcaster says a cable consortium is overcharging it to carry two high-def channels.

DIRECTV is accusing a cable consortium of setting an illegal pricing structure for two High-Definition TV channels.

The satcaster filed a complaint today with the Federal Communications Commission. Federal laws prohibit cable companies from making exclusive agreements with their affiliates.

But DIRECTV says the consortium, which includes Comcast, Time Warner and Cox, is charging it more for high-def channels, INHD and INHD 2, than it charges cable operators. The satcaster says the action is negatively affecting its business.

DIRECTV currently does not carry the two HDTV channels, which are on many cable systems.

In Demand, which produces the two channels for the cable consortium, charges cable and satellite operators a different fee based on their number of digital subscribers. Because all DIRECTV subscribers receive their signals digitally, the satcaster says it is being unfairly charged. (Many cable subscribers have yet to sign up for "digital cable.")

Consequently, the complaint says, In Demand wants to charge DIRECTV $3 per subscriber compared to just 67 cents per Comcast subscriber. (Approximately 40 percent of Comcast subscribers are "digital" subscribers.)

_____________________________________________

The complete story can be found here. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvfoul063005.html)

Winston,

Scroll back a page or two and you'll find that there was very recent discussion on a cheap OTA tuner here just a few days ago.

You should also read the first three messages on the first page of this discussion thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=454301&page=1&pp=50

Bottom line cost for OTA HD can be done for around $300 for equipment. In the event you need an attic or rooftop antenna, the cost of cabling would be on top of that.

dweebe,

FWIW, I don't see the need for sustained self-flagellation over your remark. You made an error in judgment, you stepped up and apologized and that should be enough.

In view of how you've handled that, if anyone finds your continuing presence and participation here offensive, that's their problem, not yours.

Thank you! I will look into it.

Thank you! I will look into it.

Winston, Your set already has the built in tuner. All you need is the antenna and your ready to go. I bought the radio shack antenna and put in in my attic.

ferl,

Doh! I should have noticed this set has an onboard HD tuner.

I appreciate you pointing this out. I should have checked Winston's link but overlooked it.

Did anyone see in the sports news that Tony LaRussa is upset because ESPN has "claimed" the Cards/Giants game on 7/10 by moving to an evening start? (Meaning him and any players going to Detroit for the All-Star game will have to take a red-eye flight to get there.)

Wonder if that game will be in HD?

Did anyone see in the sports news that Tony LaRussa is upset because ESPN has "claimed" the Cards/Giants game on 7/10 by moving to an evening start? (Meaning him and any players going to Detroit for the All-Star game will have to take a red-eye flight to get there.)

Wonder if that game will be in HD?

The Sunday night ESPN game is always in HD. Woo Hoo!

The Sunday night ESPN game is always in HD. Woo Hoo!

I thought there's been a few exceptions this season.

The Sunday night ESPN game is always in HD. Woo Hoo!


It will most likely be blacked out for St. Louis viewers.

It will most likely be blacked out for St. Louis viewers.

I wouldn't think so, because on Sunday nights ESPN is the only channel covering the game. So you won't have Fox Sports or KPLR exercising exclusivity clauses or anything like that.

Very disappointing, no HD. Womens US Open also no HD. When are the networks going to realize the benefit of showing major sporting events in HD?

I'll bet the world is really not quite ready to send HD signals across the pond. Domestic HD is tough enough. Must cost a small fortune in satellite time....assuming ample bandwidth even exists. That's before you take all the necessary production equipment into account. I know they did it for the Olympics, but that played to a much larger crowd and had a much larger budget.

Sooner or later, it's gonna happen though. Early color TV went thru the same growing pains.

ATI HDTV WONDER OTA in St. Louis, Missouri

KTVI-DT - FOX - 2.1 (43) - HD720p (1280x720)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1572/211jv.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=211jv.jpg)


KMOV-DT - CBS - 4.1 (56) - HD1080i (1920x1088)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1820/411nf.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=411nf.jpg)

KSDKDT - NBC - 5.1 (35) - HD1080i (1920x1088)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8057/512qr.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=512qr.jpg)

KSDKWX - NBC - 5.2 (35) - SD480i (720x480)
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5411/523ks.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=523ks.jpg)

KETCDT - PBS - 9.1 (39) - HD720p (1280x720)
KETCHD
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/778/917fn.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=917fn.jpg)

KETCDT2 - PBS - 9.2 (39) - SD480i (720x480)
KETC KIDS
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5700/927el.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=927el.jpg)

KETCDT3 - PBS - 9.3 (39) - SD480i (720x480)
KETC/Channel 9
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2981/932vx.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=932vx.jpg)

KPLRDT - WB - 11.1 (26) - HD1080i (1920x1088)
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3765/1111zz.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1111zz.jpg)

KNLC-DT - FMN - 24.1 (14) - SD480i (720x480)
I don't know anyone who can pick this station up. I also don't know anyone who want's to pick it up.

KDNL-DT - ABC - 30.1 (31) - HD720p (1280x720)
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6392/3018lb.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3018lb.jpg)

WRBU-DT - UPN - 47.0 (47) - SD480i (720x480)
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9722/4618jh.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4618jh.jpg)


Greg

grogs,

Thanks for posting the info from your ATI card.

It's interesting to see the data for the three 720p OTA channels -- KETC-HD (PBS) channel at 389kB, KTVI-HD at 433kB and KDNL-HD at 543kB. I'm not surprised by the low throughput on the PBS HD channel because of the multicasting, but then I am surprised that the FOX data is so low.

Any idea if that's an anomaly of the time you sampled the channels, or is this typically what you're seeing from KTVI?

Thanks again -- very interesting stuff...

Does anyone have sound on 11-1 OTA? I'm not getting anything.

I dont' think I want sound, Mulder has just given up 2 homers...one to a guy with 6 previous home runs and another with 3.....Sound just came back...picture looks great.

Doug,

I recently got a PCI HD tuner card going too.

I was quite surprised to see that while a CSI episode from 4-1 (1080i) took almost 7.33gb of space on my hard drive, an episode of THE INSIDE on 2-1 (720p) only took 5.51gb.

And here's something really surprising. An episode of SHE SPIES from 46-1 (4x3 480i) took 6.4gb! Bitrate was 15mbps, similar to what someone else recently measured on KSDK 5-1. Picture still looked like cheesy 4x3 480i, though.

All of the above were before editing commercials. After cutting the ads out, all three file sizes were 25% smaller.

Doug,

It's interesting to see the data for the three 720p OTA channels -- KETC-HD (PBS) channel at 389kB, KTVI-HD at 433kB and KDNL-HD at 543kB. I'm not surprised by the low throughput on the PBS HD channel because of the multicasting, but then I am surprised that the FOX data is so low.

Any idea if that's an anomaly of the time you sampled the channels, or is this typically what you're seeing from KTVI?

Is it possible you're confusing the size of the .JPG files with the data rate for the channels? The sizes that you're seeing after the image resolution is for the .JPG file and have nothing to do with the data rate for the broadcast ;)

Best,

Doug,

And here's something really surprising. An episode of SHE SPIES from 46-1 (4x3 480i) took 6.4gb! Bitrate was 15mbps, similar to what someone else recently measured on KSDK 5-1. Picture still looked like cheesy 4x3 480i, though.


SHE SPIES? You dog. :D ;)

Any new news on Charter and Fox Sports Midwest coming together and getting the HD channel (and HD Cardinal games) out soon?

John,

Right you are.

I think I need a break...

Hey guys,
I'm up here in Michigan, with no hd watching until I'm back in St. Louis in August. Charter is the cable company here in Interlochen, and I saw ads for ESPN2 HD while I was watching the analog feed of ESPN2. Does anyone know if it's really true that Charter has ESPN2 up and running in some markets? If so, I'm really pissed that a small town like Interlochen gets it, and not St. Louis. Maybe it'll be added in the future.

Bob,
Man, I'm really enjoying my rented dvds of the first season of 24. Cool...

If you guys re-read the bill message it states, "Starting on July 12." It doesn't say, On July 12th.

Just like the other areas, this will be launches in phases.

Mark

This is disappointing news. The article does not mention when the major network channels (non-HD) will be digital. Does anyone know where they fall into the timeline?

This is disappointing news. The article does not mention when the major network channels (non-HD) will be digital. Does anyone know where they fall into the timeline?

I talked with my Charter insider and got the scoop on this. In an employee newsletter, the PD article was referenced. In the blurb in the newsletter, it stated that the Post did misquote and did provide miss-information.

What was supposed to be relayed is that Charter is going to be sending out all channels to digital boxes in a digital format. In regards to the 25 channels that are listed, What is meant is that we are going to be receiving those channels already digitally encoded. Whereas the remainder of analog channels will have to be converted to digital at the head end with plans on receiving the digital formats of those channels later in the summer/year.

Just passing on what I hear...

Hey Jedi,

Gotta love that Nina Meyers...

The Macy's fireworks display in NYC will be on NBC in HD tonight for the first time at 8 pm Central time. I assume KSDK will carry it.

YES!!!!!!!

I talked with my Charter insider and got the scoop on this. In an employee newsletter, the PD article was referenced. In the blurb in the newsletter, it stated that the Post did misquote and did provide miss-information.

What was supposed to be relayed is that Charter is going to be sending out all channels to digital boxes in a digital format. In regards to the 25 channels that are listed, What is meant is that we are going to be receiving those channels already digitally encoded. Whereas the remainder of analog channels will have to be converted to digital at the head end with plans on receiving the digital formats of those channels later in the summer/year.

Just passing on what I hear...

abcward-

Just so I am understanding this correctly, what "Deep Throat" is saying is that ALL of the Charter channels will be digital as of 7/12 - some will just be of a more pure nature later in the summer.

Is that correct? And, if so, I am wondering if there is a sizable difference between the initially digitally-encoded channels vs. those converted at the head end.

Thanks as always.

Saluki,

All i got was what I posted, but I too am assuming what you are....I guess we'll see in a week.

Happy 4th


Bruce

Hey Jedi,

Gotta love that Nina Meyers...

Yes, you do!

DirecTV Offers Free DVR & HD Receiver for 2-Year Commitment

The following story comes from today's SkyREPORT newsletter:

_________________________________________

The news is out on DirecTV's latest effort for high-def TV, and SkyRETAILER has the details in today's edition.

The satellite TV giant said it recently sent a letter to retailers indicating that under a new program consumers who sign up for a two-year commitment tied to a qualifying programming package will be able to receive - for free - advanced set-top boxes, including equipment with DVR capabilities and systems that will connect subscribers to HD programming.

Standard/basic boxes still require a one-year commitment, the company said.

The program starts Aug. 1. That's about a month before DirecTV begins to deliver NFL Sunday Ticket, its exclusive football package that will offer games in high-def.
_________________________________________


If I understand this correctly.... I should wait until August 1 before I order my DirecTV. I will be a new subscriber and would *love* to get a free HD box and a free DirecTV DVR. From what I understand from this brief snippet, in August of 2005, w/ a 2 year commitment, DirecTV will give new customers a free HD and a free DVR box. Is that right?

Winston, Your set already has the built in tuner. All you need is the antenna and your ready to go. I bought the radio shack antenna and put in in my attic.

I'm sorry, I've looked back through a few pages and never saw a post where you described your antenna. Could you link me to it or post it again?

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry, I've looked back through a few pages and never saw a post where you described your antenna. Could you link me to it or post it again?

Thank you very much.

This is the antenna I bought

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

I also bought the antenna mast for the attic and it works great http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-882


Used the rg6 coax.

I'm not saying that this is your best choice, but I have very good reception.
I sure some other folks may have som input here.

Did KSDK forget to turn the switch on again tonight? Half-way thru the Macy's fireworks, it went ot full screen; however, I don't think it is HD due to the pixelation as well as the NBC logo being cut off in the bottom corner. What gives???

The Macy's fireworks display in NYC will be on NBC in HD tonight for the first time at 8 pm Central time. I assume KSDK will carry it.

YES!!!!!!!


...and what a wonderful job the engineer did of goofing up the picture.

Macy's 4th of July Fireworks Spectacular

I agree with the quality issue.
At least part of it was HD. Maybe the quality issue is due to pictures taken at night?


http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7359/p0247kh.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p0247kh.jpg)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9049/p0250xg.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p0250xg.jpg)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4273/p0264vr.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p0264vr.jpg)


Direct Link to Images:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7359/p0247kh.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9049/p0250xg.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4273/p0264vr.jpg

Greg

...and what a wonderful job the engineer did of goofing up the picture.

AMAZING! It took 40 minutes before someone woke him up? Who's in charge over there?????

I agree. When it finally switched to HD, the NBC logo was cut off at the bottom and pixelation was apparent at times......I wonder if it's the 5.-2 all-important Weather Channel robbing bits.

Regardless, the whole production in NYC was a bit disapointing. Camera angles were quite static & boring with lots of bad cuts, choppy pictures, etc.

Audio as so so also.

What's the deal?

If you look at the pictures above the NBC logo was there.
At least it was for me.

But I do agree the quality was not anything to write home about.

Greg

AMAZING! It took 40 minutes before someone woke him up? Who's in charge over there?????

I agree. When it finally switched to HD, the NBC logo was cut off at the bottom and pixelation was apparent at times......I wonder if it's the 5.-2 all-important Weather Channel robbing bits.

Regardless, the whole production in NYC was a bit disapointing. Camera angles were quite static & boring with lots of bad cuts, choppy pictures, etc.

Audio as so so also.

What's the deal?

Bob,
Copy that!! In fact, I'm also digging Jack's wife, his hot daughter, and Jamey looked pretty nice too... before she bought it. My next Netflix mailing should take me through the end of season 1 and into season 2...

Jack's daughter, Elisha Cuthbert, was and is extremely hot.

Did KSDK forget to turn the switch on again tonight? Half-way thru the Macy's fireworks, it went ot full screen; however, I don't think it is HD due to the pixelation as well as the NBC logo being cut off in the bottom corner. What gives???

WICS-DT (Springfield, IL) had the NBC logo cut-off too, possibly a network issue. But after seeing them miss flipping the switch again, I moved all my Tivo NBC season passes to WICS-DT. That and having two e-mails ignored about the audio issues and not fixing it after weeks. What a joke.

I'm so glad the only KSDK season pass I have is for Meet the Press.

If you look at the pictures above the NBC logo was there.
At least it was for me.

But I do agree the quality was not anything to write home about.

Greg

Maybe on a full screen plasma or a video card. But note that the "NBC" literally touches the lower border of the image. It's normally not that low. Any overscan at all on a RPTV or CRT would surely truncate it.

WICS-DT (Springfield, IL) had the NBC logo cut-off too, possibly a network issue. But after seeing them miss flipping the switch again, I moved all my Tivo NBC season passes to WICS-DT. That and having two e-mails ignored about the audio issues and not fixing it after weeks. What a joke.

TURLS....WICS is one of my stations...so let me know if you see any problems. BTW in Sertember we're changing affialiations from NBC to ABC.
Jim

I talked with my Charter insider and got the scoop on this. In an employee newsletter, the PD article was referenced. In the blurb in the newsletter, it stated that the Post did misquote and did provide miss-information.

What was supposed to be relayed is that Charter is going to be sending out all channels to digital boxes in a digital format. In regards to the 25 channels that are listed, What is meant is that we are going to be receiving those channels already digitally encoded. Whereas the remainder of analog channels will have to be converted to digital at the head end with plans on receiving the digital formats of those channels later in the summer/year.

Just passing on what I hear...

Can your Charter insider offer any info about the Fox Sports Midwest situation?

Can your Charter insider offer any info about the Fox Sports Midwest situation?

Sorry, no info at all....

Believe me, this is one that I pester him daily about.

:)

I'm leaning toward biting on a deal for an Optoma H78DC3 projector, but I don't know where to go to see one. Does anyone know of a place in town or nearby that handles Optoma front projectors?

Joe Clark

For you Elisha Cuthbert fans out there, it might be worthwhile checking out the movie "The Girl Next Door," a comedy about a prematurely retired porn star who moves in next door to a soon-to-graduate high school senior. This movie recently appeared on HBO-HD (at least I think it was HBO).

Not a great movie by any means, but generally entertaining and it provided some decent eye candy from EC and her fellow "porn" actresses. The basic plotline follows Tom Cruise's initial movie smash, "Risky Business." If you're also a fan of "Deadwood" you might enjoy seeing Timothy Oliphant (Seth Bullock) in an update of the Joe Pantoliano role from "Risky Business."

Of course, Pantoliano also did a memorable turn in the fourth season of "The Sopranos" as Ralph "Gone Bowling" Cifareto.

Winston,

Sorry but I didn't see your follow-up question on DirecTV until this morning.

The current situation remains uncertain in terms of exactly what DirecTV is going to offer and whether equipment will actually be free. The initial story on this was in error by SkyREPORT and the correction they issued only adds to the confusion. It's also not clear whether the DVR on offer will have HD capabilities. So, there are more questions than answers about what's actually happening on this.

Assuming this is supposed to roll out in August, details on exactly what is going to be on offer should be available sometime later this month.

I'll be keeping an eye on this and will try to post here when hard facts are available from DirecTV, but you might also keep an eye on the more detailed discussion about this happening over at the HDTV Programming Forum here at AVS.

This Discussion Thread Is Accessible via www.stlhdtv.info

I just wanted to post a reminder that you can easily direct friends, family members or other HDTV newcomers to this discussion thread by having them use the URL redirect -- www.stlhdtv.info.

Distributing this URL is a lot easier than explaining to a newcomer how to navigate through the various AVS forums and threads, or by trying to accurately write down the long AVS URL that's specific to this discussion thread.

Using the redirect URL will usually take you to the last posted message in this discussion.

Whenever you pass out the URL redirect, it's worth mentioning that on the first page of this discussion thread, the first three messages contain a lot of basic information about receiving HDTV in the St. Louis area. Definitely a good place to get an initial grounding about what's available over the air, what the cable/satellite options are, as well as some basic facts about digital/HD technology.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=454301&page=1&pp=50

Finally, a reminder that you can "subscribe" to this discussion thread and receive an eMail whenever a new post appears since your last visit. Note that you'll only receive a single notification until you check in on the discussion again, so the notification option doesn't necessarily overwhelm your inbox. Still, it might be worth setting up a folder/filter for these notifications, if you know how to do that in Outlook or whatever mail reader you normally use.

Also, from what I understand (maybe from a recent posting here- am I losing my mind?) the digital channels will take up less space on your MOXI than the analog ones did.

Also, from what I understand (maybe from a recent posting here- am I losing my mind?) the digital channels will take up less space on your MOXI than the analog ones did.

You are right - the Post Dispatch article mentioned. Something like being able to hold 50 hours of SD instead of 30....

Winston,

Sorry but I didn't see your follow-up question on DirecTV until this morning.

The current situation remains uncertain in terms of exactly what DirecTV is going to offer and whether equipment will actually be free. The initial story on this was in error by SkyREPORT and the correction they issued only adds to the confusion. It's also not clear whether the DVR on offer will have HD capabilities. So, there are more questions than answers about what's actually happening on this.

Assuming this is supposed to roll out in August, details on exactly what is going to be on offer should be available sometime later this month.

I'll be keeping an eye on this and will try to post here when hard facts are available from DirecTV, but you might also keep an eye on the more detailed discussion about this happening over at the HDTV Programming Forum here at AVS.

Thank you.

That sounds like a tremdous deal, but its one of those that might sound too good to be true, which is why I ask you if I understood it correctly. =] But, the idea that you could get a free HD receiver or -- even better -- and HD DVR for a good price is an amazing deal. I'll be sure to to try and find out more, and would appreciate it if you'd post it when you find out.

Thanks!

TURLS....WICS is one of my stations...so let me know if you see any problems. BTW in Sertember we're changing affialiations from NBC to ABC.
Jim

Jim, nice to hear from you. I knew that change was coming, with KSDK-DT's audio and switching problems that is a bummer. I can only get Fox and NBC out of Springfield right now, so I guess I will have to go back to KSDK-DT for NBC after the switch.

Actually my Tivo of Conan last night went black for a while and when things came back up it was SD--might have been a network issue though.

Does anyone have the ATI HDTV CARD. I've been having problems with 2.1. I get audio but no video.

Do a manual add of channel 43.

43-1 will give you the 2.1 channel with video. I have the same problem with the ATI MMC TV+ program.

The WatchHDTV program does work fine but you need to enter "-1" for the sub-channel for it to work.

Greg

Does anyone have the ATI HDTV CARD. I've been having problems with 2.1. I get audio but no video.

Attention fellow St. Louis audio-home theater nuts.
I have an concept for a store that would carry only ONE brand of speakers that would essentially cover the guy that can only spend $500 for a basic surround system or a guy that can spend $6000+ for speakers. Am I dreaming or would people come if I build it. The brand is NOT Bose.

Jim, nice to hear from you. I knew that change was coming, with KSDK-DT's audio and switching problems that is a bummer. I can only get Fox and NBC out of Springfield right now, so I guess I will have to go back to KSDK-DT for NBC after the switch.

Actually my Tivo of Conan last night went black for a while and when things came back up it was SD--might have been a network issue though.

TURLS.... the problem was with the network. Our operator had to switch back to the upconverted feed.
Jim

Oh yeah, I saw The Girl Next Door on HBO-HD, and Doug is right....Elisha was pure eye candy!!!

Joe,
I have the Optoma H31 pj. I think that Skywalker Satellite is now a local Optoma dealer.

Does anyone have a Mitsubishi Rear Projection with a built-in tuner? I have a WS48515 and am trying to find the OTA signal strength reading but cannot. Does anyone have a suggestion?

chilmorg,

There's no signal meter on integrated Mits TVs.

That's what I thought. Thanks, Doug!!!!

Attention fellow St. Louis audio-home theater nuts.
I have an concept for a store that would carry only ONE brand of speakers that would essentially cover the guy that can only spend $500 for a basic surround system or a guy that can spend $6000+ for speakers. Am I dreaming or would people come if I build it. The brand is NOT Bose.

No opinions, I guess I'd be wasting my time & money. :(

dominic:

What about the guy that doesn't like the sound of that particular brand?

IMO, you're going to need more than one brand of loudspeaker unless you're going to open a Bose store but that's just me.

Cheers,

dominic:

What about the guy that doesn't like the sound of that particular brand?

IMO, you're going to need more than one brand of loudspeaker unless you're going to open a Bose store but that's just me.

Cheers,

Thanks for the feedback. My logic is this: if a guy is on the low end he probably won't have an opinion one way or the other. If a guy is on the mid to high end- he'll probably look at specs and at least be open minded enough to have a listen. The specs of this particular brand are among the finest available. Maybe I am totally wrong, but when I was looking to buy, I looked at various brands that were in my budget, then I looked at specs, listened to them, and then chose. My line of thinking was to not have any "brand X" bias. By the way, think about the brand of speakers you own, would you have gone to a store that carried only that brand? Or should I have another brand to use as a comparison? Perhaps one that may not sound as good? Brainstorming here.

Is today's NASCAR Busch Series race supposed to be in HD, and did NBC forget to flip the switch?

That seems to be the case. It is unbelievable that NBC continues to drop the ball in switching over to HD. Absolutely ridiculous.

That seems to be the case. It is unbelievable that NBC continues to drop the ball in switching over to HD. Absolutely ridiculous.

Is it NBC or the local, KSDK?

Is it NBC or the local, KSDK?
I should have said KSDK. If the race was supposed to be in HD, it seems KSDK forgot the switch again

I should have said KSDK. If the race was supposed to be in HD, it seems KSDK forgot the switch again

Why on earth don't they have some sort of auto-sensing circuitry that flips the switch whenever an HD signal is present? Seems to not be an issue when SD commercials are interspersed within an HD broadcast (both nat'l & local spots).

It's probably not as simple as I suggest, but probably not impossible either. First the July 4 fireworks from NYC and now this. Thank goodness the All Star game is on Fox.

Thanks for the feedback. My logic is this: if a guy is on the low end he probably won't have an opinion one way or the other. If a guy is on the mid to high end- he'll probably look at specs and at least be open minded enough to have a listen. The specs of this particular brand are among the finest available. Maybe I am totally wrong, but when I was looking to buy, I looked at various brands that were in my budget, then I looked at specs, listened to them, and then chose. My line of thinking was to not have any "brand X" bias. By the way, think about the brand of speakers you own, would you have gone to a store that carried only that brand? Or should I have another brand to use as a comparison? Perhaps one that may not sound as good? Brainstorming here.

Speakers are by far the single most subjective component that you're going to put into a system. All I'm saying is that by limiting yourself to one speaker brand, be it Paradigm, PSB, B&W or any other single brand you are likely to limit your speaker buying audience.

Most that go speaker buying start with a budget and pick several brands. I've yet to buy a pair of speakers the first time I've heard them. I've always listened to something else to be sure of what I wanted.

Anyway, it's just my thoughts, and the advice is probably worth about what you paid.

It does remind me of a joke though. Do you know how to make a million dollars in the audio industry? Start with two million ;)

Cheers,

I have been a loyal DirecTV customer for several years now, but when I move into my new house, I will have the option of staying with DirecTV or going w/ Charter cable. I know we've had this discussion on here a couple of times, but these particular questions haven't been addressed. I know some of you have Charter, so if you could help me I'd really appreciate it.

I really like DirecTV, but the sticking point is HD.

*** Short version of my question: How do you like Charter HD? What type of channels do you get?

*** Longer version:

-- I have to have a DVR. I've had a DirecTiVo for years now and its amazing. I can't imagine TV w/o a DVR anymore. I believe Charter has DVRs now... is this true?

-- HDTV. Charter has HDTV, I know. How much is it per month? I"ve been to the Charter website, but haven't really been able to pin down hard numbers. What type of channels do you get w/ Charter HD? Do you get all your locals in HD? Do you get ESPN in HD? ESPN2 in HD? Are some (or all) of channel 11's home games in HDTV?

-- Does Charter have an HDTV DVR? This is probably the most important question. I want both a DVR and HDTV.

-- I am also going to have to get broadband internet. Right now, I have DirecTV and Charter Pipeline. Apparently, I switched before they started screwing people who only subscribed to pipeline.

-- Now, DirecTV offers all of this, but it comes at a big price. The DVR (TiVo) is bascially free, but its only good for standard, digital channels, not HD. They also offer an HD receiver, but I think its $400. The big problem, of course, is that the HD DVR is also available, but at a cost of about $7-$800.

I'm thinking that Charter might offer this stuff and offer it at a significantly lower price because you might not have to pay for equipment.

Thanks for your help, opinions, and experience.

I have been a loyal DirecTV customer for several years now, but when I move into my new house, I will have the option of staying with DirecTV or going w/ Charter cable. I know we've had this discussion on here a couple of times, but these particular questions haven't been addressed. I know some of you have Charter, so if you could help me I'd really appreciate it.

I really like DirecTV, but the sticking point is HD.

*** Short version of my question: How do you like Charter HD? What type of channels do you get?

*** Longer version:

-- I have to have a DVR. I've had a DirecTiVo for years now and its amazing. I can't imagine TV w/o a DVR anymore. I believe Charter has DVRs now... is this true?

-- HDTV. Charter has HDTV, I know. How much is it per month? I"ve been to the Charter website, but haven't really been able to pin down hard numbers. What type of channels do you get w/ Charter HD? Do you get all your locals in HD? Do you get ESPN in HD? ESPN2 in HD? Are some (or all) of channel 11's home games in HDTV?

-- Does Charter have an HDTV DVR? This is probably the most important question. I want both a DVR and HDTV.

-- I am also going to have to get broadband internet. Right now, I have DirecTV and Charter Pipeline. Apparently, I switched before they started screwing people who only subscribed to pipeline.

-- Now, DirecTV offers all of this, but it comes at a big price. The DVR (TiVo) is bascially free, but its only good for standard, digital channels, not HD. They also offer an HD receiver, but I think its $400. The big problem, of course, is that the HD DVR is also available, but at a cost of about $7-$800.

I'm thinking that Charter might offer this stuff and offer it at a significantly lower price because you might not have to pay for equipment.

Thanks for your help, opinions, and experience.

Charter subscriber here. I have been for about 2.5 years and before that I was a Dishnet sub.

I have HD service with Charter. The regular HD receiver costs $6.99 per month and it costs an additional $3.99 for the HD tier, which consists of HDNet, HDNet Movies and ESPN-HD. [You get 'for free' FOX-HD, NBC-HD, CBS-HD, WB11-HD and HBO/Showtime in HD...provided you subscribe to HBO and/or Showtime].

Charter's HD PVR is the MOXI, which costs the same $6.99 monthly fee, but you must also pay a $9.99 "tivo like" fee per month. The receiver is a 2-tuner PVR with an 80-gb HD. There are no upfront costs. Charter should also be rolling out their upgraded Moxi in the next few months as well. This model boasts a 160gb harddrive and comes with the "MoxiMate" which allows you to have the same PVR functions on two different tv's.

Here's a detailed list of channels:

HDNet
HDNet Movies
ESPN-HD
HBO-HD
SHOWTIME-HD
WB11-HD [this does show a few Cardinals games in HD]
NBC-HD
CBS-HD
FOX-HD

There is also information that these three channels will be added in September: Cinemax-HD, DiscoveryHD, and PBS-HD.

Hope this helps

Thank you. That does help out a lot.

Three other (easy?) questions: When you record HD programming w/ Moxi, then watch it later on is it still HD quality? Oh, and one more =] I suppose that recording HD takes up a lot more space than recording SD programming. And, finally, you have most basic DVR functions such as pause-ing live TV?

Winston,

Here's a post from a month ago that provides a lot of detail on Charter HD pricing:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5757498&&#post5757498

And here's another with an attachment that lists and compares available HD programming on the various services:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5804511&&#post5804511

FWIW, there's a ton of good info available on this thread, and you might find additional relevant info about Charter HD by trying the "Search This Thread" facility that appears at the top of each page here.

There is also information that these three channels will be added in September: Cinemax-HD, DiscoveryHD, and PBS-HD.

Winston,

Just my additional two cents here, but whether it's Charter, DirecTV or DISH, I think you should focus on what is currently available in terms of HD programming, rather than giving any weight to rumors about future additions.

It's more than understatement to say that none of these companies have a good track record for adding new HD programming, but the track record is even poorer when it comes to Internet speculation on expected channel additions.

abc's info may be right on the mark (and I hope it is), but the odds are decidedly against it.

Just finished watching the Cards in HD on ESPN. It was great (especially a win). Now if we could only get the KMOX audio in 5.1 to play with the game!!!

Now if we could only get the KMOX audio in 5.1 to play with the game!!!

Several years ago, KMOX actually did broadcast home games in stereo.

Miller and Morgan are an awful lot better than Danny and Al.

Draft HD Programming Guide Available for Review

Off and on the past couple of weeks, I've been pulling together an all-in-one HD Programming Guide that shows which channels are available in St. Louis via the different services (OTA, cable, satellite), as well as channel numbers, the HD format they use, how they format non-HD programming and whether Dolby Digital is available.

This should be considered a rough draft for now, and I'd welcome any comments, suggestions or corrections, either here, by private message or via eMail. Once this has been fine-tuned, I'll include it as an attachment on the first page of this discussion thread along with the other resource documents. I'll update this as needed -- hopefully that will keep me busy over the next few months. :cool:

For anyone who's had HD programming for more than 15 minutes, much of this will be old news. But I think this guide could be helpful to HD newcomers, or consumers thinking about buying an HDTV, or for those with an HD-capable display but no current source of HD programming.

And it might actually allow certain high-volume retailers to provide real information about HD availability rather than telling potential customers, "there's not much on."

Note: The attached file is an Adobe PDF and has been screened for viruses prior to upload. I used a third-party PDF creator, so if anyone has trouble reading the file, let me know.


Hey, Doug, this .pdf won't open for me anymore - used to work just fine.

Joe,

I had trouble from the start in trying to read the PDF in my browser by clicking the link. However, I have been able to right click the link and save the file to my desktop and then open it from there. I just tried that again, and it worked OK for me.

I have another version of the Video Savant programming guide in the works and will hopefully get that uploaded sometime this week. It adds the average number of hours of HD programming per day per channel, and I'm still trying to pin down that number for ESPN2 HD.

Anyone with Dish: Is their HD package worth getting. I have a built-in tuner on my Mitsubishi and enjoy the locals in HD, but don't want to fork out $300 for a receiver. I have alos heard that if you threaten to disconnect that they will work with you to keep you. Is this true? Someone please weigh in on this. Thanks.

chilmorg,

You can see for yourself the DISH HD content by reading through the attachment to the message below. Note that you may need to right click on the file link and "save target as" to your local machine. It is in PDF format, so you need to have Adobe Reader installed on your computer.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...1&&#post5804511

Charter, DISH and DirecTV all have retention desks and they are always worth talking to in terms of getting a better deal if you are considering a change.

In terms of raw channel count for HD, Dish is the definite "go to" leader at this time. Whether they will remain the leader is another story entirely.

They recently received approval to move one of their satellites which was a major part of their services plan so that stumbling block is out of the way. Getting it to the new orbital location is the next hurdle to cross.

I really don't know what they're going to do with Rainbow-1 they're acquiring. Technically speaking they don't own the satellite yet. In the short term we're receiving 10 voom channels from 61.5.

Cheers,

-- Now, DirecTV offers all of this, but it comes at a big price. The DVR (TiVo) is bascially free, but its only good for standard, digital channels, not HD. They also offer an HD receiver, but I think its $400. The big problem, of course, is that the HD DVR is also available, but at a cost of about $7-$800.


DirecTV's HD-Tivo is rumored to drop in price again to $599 on 7/31/05. There are also rumors of a $100 DVR rebate that would also lower the price, but would require a 2 year commitment.

You mentioned that you have been a D* customer for several years. Other long term customers have gotten significant programming credits to offset the cost of the HD-Tivo, although that was when they were retailing for $1000. You could still call D*'s customer rentention department at 1 800 600-8977 and see if they would give you credits to stay with them.

Also, with D*'s new satellite's and their upcoming MPEG4 format, the HD-Tivo may not be able to get any additional D* HD offerings and may be swapped for a new DVR when the St. Louis market is converted to MPEG4. This would allow you to have locals sent through the satellite signal, if you're moving to an area when you can't get good HD signals OTA.

I have D* now, mainly for NBA League Pass, which Charter doesn't offer. If I didn't need that and I were moving, I might switch to Charter because all the uncertainity with D*'s HD future. Unknown schedule for MPEG4 upgrade, unknown performance of the HMC, D*'s next gen DVR, two year commitment with rebate.

Charter HD does not have ABC - HD, so that could be a major issue, depending on which shows you like to watch.

So to summarize,

If you can get good HD OTA in your new home, call D* customer retention and see if you can get credits towards a HD-Tivo or wait for the price drop / rebate.

If you can't get good HD OTA, switch to Charter until D* comes through with the HD LIL and MPEG4 and re-evaluate your situation. If you switch back to the D* in the future, Charter might hit you with an increase on your broadband internet and you might want to consider DSL.


Hope this helps.

Several years ago, KMOX actually did broadcast home games in stereo.

But it was strange. I rented a Cadillac that had AM stereo and they had it mixed so Jack Buck was totally coming from the right speaker and Mike Shannon from the left speaker.

I guess that would be good for some of the Mike Shannon haters, just turn the left channel off.

Well, why wouldn't they do that to show off their new technology? ;)

What I don't get is why KMOX turned off AM Stereo. Once you invest in the equipment, why turn it off? Every AM stereo radio I've seen allows you to turn off stereo if you don't want it.

Just finished watching the Cards in HD on ESPN. It was great (especially a win). Now if we could only get the KMOX audio in 5.1 to play with the game!!!

Unfortunately the tv picture and the radio broadcast are not synchronized and may be seconds apart. This makes watching the game with the volume turned down and listening to the radio very irritating.

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to post an item for sale in this thread. However, I'm trying to sell this HDTV for my friend who will only consider a local buyer. My friend bought this set less than 2 years ago for $3250. I've personally viewed this TV and can state it's in great shape, with uniform brightness and a superb HD picture. The TV is lightly used with less than 800 hours of usage. My firend welcomes anyone interested to come demo the unit. He's asking $1500/OBO. The specs are the following:

#KF-50XBR800 50" LCD HDTV

Sony has made a grand addition to the WEGA line. Discover the NEW 50-inch Grand WEGA™ 16:9 LCD Rear Projection TV.


Offering 50-inches of flat out fantastic entertainment, this television packs all the power you seek in the perfect size. Enjoy features like the 3 Wide High Resolution XGA LCD Panels, 3.15 Million Dots Resolution (1366 x 768 x 3), 1.05 Million Dots Resolution (1366 x 768) for each 1.35" LCD Panel, a Contrast Level improvement of 25% for overall better black level, an Ultra High Pressure Lamp of 100 Watts, Digital Reality Creation™ Circuitry (progressive), MemoryStick™ Media Playback, and JPEG slide show.

Additional features include a DVI-HDTV Interface, a Super Fine Pitch Lenticular Screen (0.155mm), a High Contrast Screen with a Double Anti-Reflective (A/R) Coating, a First Surface Mirror, Wide Modes (Normal/Full/Zoom/Wide Zoom), and more. Watch and listen as this Grand WEGA TV's 3-Way 6-Speaker Audio System booms.

Features:

• 50" Grand WEGA 16:9 LCD Rear Projection Television

• MemoryStick® Media playback, still image JPEG slide show

• Contrast level improved by 25% for a better black level

• Sleek aluminum finish remote control

• DVI-HDTV interface

• 50" 16:9 LCD Rear Projection TV

• Proprietary Optical Engine

• 3 Wide High Resolution XGA LCD Panels

• 3.15 Million Dots Resolution (1366 x 768 x 3)

• 1.05 Million Dots Resolution (1366 x 768) each 1.35" LCD Panel

• UHP(Ultra High Pressure) Lamp 100 Watts

• DRC (Digital Reality Creation) Circuitry (progressive)

• CineMotion Reverse 3-2 Pulldown Technology

• Super Fine Pitch Lenticular Screen (0.155mm)

• High Contrast Screen with Double Anti-Reflective (A/R) Coating

• First Surface Mirror

• 3D Digital Comb Filter

• 2-Tuner MID-X Circuitry (TwinView /Scrolling Channel Index)

• Wide Modes (Normal/Full /Zoom/Wide Zoom)

• TruSurround Sound/Virtual Dolby Surround Sound

• 3-Way 6 Speaker Audio System (Total 30 Watts)

• Component Video Inputs Y/Pb/Pr (2) -HD Capable

• A/V Inputs (4) - including 1 Front

• S-Video Inputs (3) - including 1 Front

• Control S (in /out)

• TV Output

• Audio Output

• Energy Star Compliant: Power Consumption: 210 W; Standby 0.5 W

• Dimensions (W x H x D): 54 1/4" x 43 1/2" x 16 3/8"(W x H x D): 1376mm x 964mm x 415mm

• Weight: 111lbs. (50kg.)

I was just thinking about some postings a few weeks ago that Charter was going all digital for channels 1-99 on July 12th. Has any of this happened yet? I was watching last night and wondering if they had done it yet. Then I wondered how I would even know except to visually see a sharper picture.

It does remind me of a joke though. Do you know how to make a million dollars in the audio industry? Start with two million ;)

Cheers,

Thanks for the feedback John, I am certainly trying to mull this over before doing anything that will cost me to lose my shirt. Would it matter if I told you that this line has crossover within the line. i.e. there are speakers that will cost about the same and be bigger than a better component speaker that may be smaller. Does this make any difference? Also, I would expect that buyers may make 2 or three visits to listen before making a purchase. Your joke is only funny until its your money on the line. :o

I was just thinking about some postings a few weeks ago that Charter was going all digital for channels 1-99 on July 12th. Has any of this happened yet? I was watching last night and wondering if they had done it yet. Then I wondered how I would even know except to visually see a sharper picture.

Well, tomorrow is July 12th, so we'll see how things look after tomorrow.

Also remember it seems that Charter is rolling this out in 25 channel increments so not all channels will be digital this week. I do hear from other cities that you will see a drastic increase in quality once it goes digital.

Then I wondered how I would even know except to visually see a sharper picture.

This might not work for everyone, but here's my plan ...

First off, My set top box is a DCT-2000 but it is the K type box (this is how they referred to it when it was installed 4 or 5 years ago). This box differs from the regular DCT-2000 in that is has S-video and SPDIF (coax) digital audio outputs. At some point they may have made this box standard issue. When I got mine it was special order.

The one unique feature I see on all the digital channels is the ability to switch between PCM and Dolby Digital. Press the info button on a digital channel and one of the buttons will be the double D Dolby symbol. If this button appears on my box it's a digital channel, if it doesn't, it's analog.

Now, if you don't have the digital audio output on your box, or you have the HD box or the Moxi, your mileage may vary.

I'll report my findings if this method identifies any activity.

djsmokyc, thank you, that helped me a lot.

FWIW, I was speaking with one of my customers last week and he mentioned that one of his friends recently bought an HD TiVo for $699 along with $200 in programming credits.

I believe that you have to go through the retention desk to receive this offer, but it's been around for a while and appears to still be in play.

I have no idea if this sort of offer would still be in play if the HD TiVos actually fall to $599. But what I said earlier today about Internet rumor and speculaton goes double in this case.

Focus on what can be verified.

dominic says:

Thanks for the feedback John, I am certainly trying to mull this over before doing anything that will cost me to lose my shirt. Would it matter if I told you that this line has crossover within the line. i.e. there are speakers that will cost about the same and be bigger than a better component speaker that may be smaller. Does this make any difference? Also, I would expect that buyers may make 2 or three visits to listen before making a purchase. Your joke is only funny until its your money on the line.

You're going to lose traffic through the door by having only 1 brand of loudspeaker. Less traffic = less opportunity for sales. Less opportunity means that a higher per centage of people walking through the door will have to buy to be successful. In the end, it's your decision. This is especially true if it's what I think it is.

Also, if your skin is so thin that the joke bothered you, I think you might be best served by not getting into this venture. There's far worse out there than that joke.

Sounds like John has a speaker store across the Street. :)

How about Abreu last night? In HD on ESPN...awesome...simply awesome.

ESPN's HD offerings are some of the best I've seen. However I can only handle Berman's "back back back" schtick for about 2 minutes...

Speaking of HD sports, we will ever see FSMW-HD in St. Louis???

Is Charter supposed to go (partly) digital, today? I didn't notice anything different this morning. Anyone notice improved digital channels?

dj:

I have absolutely no desire to get into the retail business. It's not much better than the food business in terms of a failure rate, and as such it's a great financial risk.

The thing is, if this is what Dominic wants to do, he should go for it, and I hope he's successful.

Is Charter supposed to go (partly) digital, today? I didn't notice anything different this morning. Anyone notice improved digital channels?

I took one spin through the channels this morning and didn't see any difference.

Is Charter supposed to go (partly) digital, today? I didn't notice anything different this morning. Anyone notice improved digital channels?


Not all channels went digital today. Only certain ones were and they are doing them 25 channels at a time. Anyone know what the next set of 25 channels and the set of 25 after that are going to be and when those will go all digital? When will the all digital transition be complete? I was kind of hoping Scifi channel would have been in the first 25 channels going all digital. Scifi's Friday lineup premiers this Friday. Thanks, Craig.


These are the channels that went all digital today, this was from the Post-Dispatch article:

E! Entertainment, CNBC, CMT, Animal Planet, HGTV, Lifetime, ESPN, ESPN2, Speed
Channel, SoapNet, TNT, GSN, Fox Movie Channel, Women's Entertainment, National Geographic, Toon Disney, Style, Hallmark, G4, BET, Inspiration Network, Jewelry Television, CCIN, Regional Access, Local Programming.

I don't think local programming mean the networks. I think its just Charter's local programming. Also Hallmark moved to 129 and Soapnet moved to 130, I think this is just for digital customers only. I still saw Hallmark on 51 and Soapnet on 67 for cable-ready tv's.

Sounds like John has a speaker store across the Street. :)

How about Abreu last night? In HD on ESPN...awesome...simply awesome.
I was a bit disappointed that the cameramen couldn't seem to follow the ball very well early in the event. And a really hated the overlapping images ESPN was sporting while they were talking to Reggie Jackson. What a waste of screen space! :mad:

*rant off

I'm getting to the point that I can't watch anything when Chris Berman is talking. I turned it off last night as soon as I saw him doing the opening.

A quick surf through the Charter lineup during lunch reveals all channels referenced in the article are digital. Most look cleaner and more vibrant than their former analog equivalent. However, comparing ESPNHD during upconverted programming vs. ESPN digital, shows significant compression on the digitized ESPN. I guess the digital conversion is all relative. I'd say it's a significant upgrade over analog with cleaner PQ, but not nearly as sharp as upconverted content on the HD channels. Do a A/B of ESPN digital vs. ESPNHD during non HD content to see if you agree.

Andrew

A quick surf through the Charter lineup during lunch reveals all channels referenced in the article are digital. Most look cleaner and more vibrant than their former analog equivalent. However, comparing ESPNHD during upconverted programming vs. ESPN digital, shows significant compression on the digitized ESPN. I guess the digital conversion is all relative. I'd say it's a significant upgrade over analog with cleaner PQ, but not nearly as sharp as upconverted content on the HD channels. Do a A/B of ESPN digital vs. ESPNHD during non HD content to see if you agree.

Andrew

Shouldn't you be buying low and selling HIGH? What are you doing changing channels at work?

Having the digital channels on Charter- I haven't had a chance to check today, but I can't imagine getting THE TICK in better quality- that would be great!

Not all channels went digital today. Only certain ones were and they are doing them 25 channels at a time. Anyone know what the next set of 25 channels and the set of 25 after that are going to be and when those will go all digital? When will the all digital transition be complete? I was kind of hoping Scifi channel would have been in the first 25 channels going all digital. Scifi's Friday lineup premiers this Friday. Thanks, Craig.


These are the channels that went all digital today, this was from the Post-Dispatch article:

E! Entertainment, CNBC, CMT, Animal Planet, HGTV, Lifetime, ESPN, ESPN2, Speed
Channel, SoapNet, TNT, GSN, Fox Movie Channel, Women's Entertainment, National Geographic, Toon Disney, Style, Hallmark, G4, BET, Inspiration Network, Jewelry Television, CCIN, Regional Access, Local Programming.



Thanks for reminding me. I'll still in VCR taping hell: will need to record "Battlestar Gallactica".

Once again: does anyone know when the second wave of digital channels will come?

Thanks for reminding me. I'll still in VCR taping hell: will need to record "Battlestar Gallactica".

Once again: does anyone know when the second wave of digital channels will come?


No Problem.

Does anyone know or have a guess if tonight's game will be the wonderful Fox "Widescreen" or a true HD broadcast??

John it's all good. I just like to poke a little fun every now and again. I mean no harm.

The homerun derby did get a little annoying...back back back can get old. Unfortuantely, I think ESPN is starting to focus more on the creative calls rather than the actual event score or results. Normally, I have Sportscenter on in the mornings as I get ready for work, but it gets annoying fast when you can't follow what goes on unless you're sitting and watching the show.

I'm very anxious to see the National League break the (8 game losing) streak tonight. With the team stacked with Cardinals actaully playing for WS home field, I think they will be plenty fired up. Here's hoping the weather doesn't interfere with the Fox OTA signal.

MTB -

It'll be HD for sure.

Having the digital channels on Charter- I haven't had a chance to check today, but I can't imagine getting THE TICK in better quality- that would be great!

What channel is showing THE TICK ????

I have nearly 20 years experience in retail business (not audio equipment). john does not like the single brand concept but did give good feedback. everyone out there agree with him? gimme something to compare to.

Sorry, didn't want to have to back track through all 222 pages to find out if Charter carries QAM HD signals through basic cable. I'm using FusionHDTV5 Lite with my HTPC, but I can only pick up HD through my attic antenna and not my basic cable. Anyone able to pick up the local stations through Cable?

Thanks,
Neuner

Neuner -

You can pick up the local stations through Charter, but you have to pay fo them. I think it'ss the HD tier. As a Dish network subscriber I couldn't give you all the details. Good luck.

Does anyone know or have a guess if tonight's game will be the wonderful Fox "Widescreen" or a true HD broadcast??

It has been advertised as a Fox Sports HD broadcast. I don't know if they do anything in 480p Widescreen any more. Now, the local affiliates that haven't been converted, that could be a different story. KTVI does 720p.

Neuner -

You can pick up the local stations through Charter, but you have to pay fo them. I think it'ss the HD tier. As a Dish network subscriber I couldn't give you all the details. Good luck.

Actually Local HD Channels are free, but as far as I am aware you have to have an HD Reciever which does cost more money. The moxi DVR box is HD ready or you can get an HD regular reciever for a few less than the moxi.

Phatty

It has been advertised as a Fox Sports HD broadcast. I don't know if they do anything in 480p Widescreen any more. Now, the local affiliates that haven't been converted, that could be a different story. KTVI does 720p.

They still do the Saturday games in 480p. Let me rephrase that; they capture and process it at 480p but then send it out at 720p. Just go over to the "HDTV Programming" area and you'll see people complaining about it

They've been advertising the All Star Game as High Def. Everything from the long 30 second "pinball" ads to the quick 5 second drop-ins mention HD.

Link to confirmation of All Star Game in HD. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558584)

Do you know how to make a million dollars in the audio industry? Start with two million ;)


My father used to say that about the commodities market. :D

Actually when FOX does FOX Widescreen, they capture in 480i, not 480p.

If FOX Widescreen image acquisition was done at 480p, the quality of FOX Widescreen would be much higher -- in fact, it would be acceptable.

I have nearly 20 years experience in retail business (not audio equipment). john does not like the single brand concept but did give good feedback. everyone out there agree with him? gimme something to compare to.You better sell a LOT of TVs. Its video that is driving the market. High-end audio is such a small space, I can almost guaranty you failure.

The one speaker line wont work either. You need to give your customers a clear point of reference (a high end system) to be able to explain what they are giving up by spending half as much. With only one speaker line you have nothing (zero) to compare against.

If you have the financial resources and are a true hobbyist, go for it. Remember that you will be operating at huge losses. If you're trying to break even or make money, forget it!

$0.02

dominic,

I have to agree with the advice that John has given you on your speaker concept store.

I think that narrowing your focus to just speakers is too limiting, and then narrowing it further to just one brand of speakers reduces your potential market to the point of near invisibility.

Cambridge Soundworks has tried this concept to a certain extent. First, they were selling their own speaker systems only via mail order and found that they needed a higher profile and opened storefronts in major cities. Before long, those stores were selling other audio and video gear. I could be wrong, but I believe Cambridge sold out to Creative Labs and most of the stores have closed.

Of course, an argument could be made that the failure of Cambridge was more about the product than the concept, but I think the concept was a major factor in the demise of the company.

Would a high-end product with positive reviews and enthusiastic word of mouth do better with the same concept?

Maybe. But I wouldn't bet on it with my own money.

A quick surf through the Charter lineup during lunch reveals all channels referenced in the article are digital. Most look cleaner and more vibrant than their former analog equivalent. However, comparing ESPNHD during upconverted programming vs. ESPN digital, shows significant compression on the digitized ESPN. I guess the digital conversion is all relative. I'd say it's a significant upgrade over analog with cleaner PQ, but not nearly as sharp as upconverted content on the HD channels. Do a A/B of ESPN digital vs. ESPNHD during non HD content to see if you agree.

Andrew

Just got home and I'm the difference seeing it now. The listed channels look better.

However ESPN2 will not come up. Getting the "Please wait..." message. :confused:

Then again all I'm missing is WNBA basketball. ;)

Doug,

If Cambridge SoundWorks failed, it wasn't because of their product (unless the product had gone downhill after my experience with it -- admittedly a possibility). I bought their original Ensemble system in the mid 90's, and added the Center Channel and Surrounds. By the time I got done tweaking them through sweat equity and a sound level meter, many of my friends had thought I'd spent several thousand dollars on those speakers. Those CSW speakers will be back in action when I get my home theater room built in the basement of my current house. They're awesome, especially for the price.

It's been my impression that CSW's reputation as a serious audio company started to suffer after the acquisition by Creative Labs. After becoming a Creative Labs subsidiary, they started putting out more and more PC multimedia products, and concentrated less and less on the serious audiophile speakers that had gotten them their excellent reputation in the first place.

Before I typed this, I went to cambridgesoundworks.com, clicked search by brand, and clicked Cambridge SoundWorks. I was on the third page of the search results before I got to a non-computer speaker. Yeesh. If I ever need to buy speakers again, it won't be from CSW.

Just got home and I'm the difference seeing it now. The listed channels look better.

However ESPN2 will not come up. Getting the "Please wait..." message. :confused:

Then again all I'm missing in WNBA basketball.

Same problem here with ESPN2.

The new digital channels look MUCH better. Unfortunately, the sound problem still exists where the analog channels are much louder than the digital ones. Let's hope the rest of the digital rollout happens soon.

It also would be nice if the NL could score some runs...

Same problem here with ESPN2.

The new digital channels look MUCH better. Unfortunately, the sound problem still exists where the analog channels are much louder than the digital ones. Let's hope the rest of the digital rollout happens soon.

It also would be nice if the NL could score some runs...

Yeah, the American league is pissing me off! Damn, as I type this another home run 7-0.

Scott

Robert,

I didn't intend to dismiss Cambridge Soundworks products, but I didn't want to leave the impression that I felt the direct-sell, single-brand concept was the only possible issue.

I actually recommended Cambridge Soundworks to a friend when he first got into home theater and I thought that even the very basic system he bought sounded pretty good. But I know that he's since upgraded to an Atlantic Tech system and that he's much happier with that.

I think one of the great things about audio today is that there are so many good choices available for speaker systems. As consumers, we're really spoiled for choice and that's another reason that I don't think it makes much sense to purposely limit a potential customer to a single choice.

Even Henry Ford couldn't hold the line on his "any color you want, as long as it's black" mantra.

http://multichannel.com/article/CA625290.html?display=Breaking+News&referral=supp

NAB Commits to DTV Hard Date

For the first time, TV stations agreed Tuesday to surrender their analog-TV spectrum no later than the end of 2009, even if millions of homes lack digital-reception equipment.



Mark

What channel is showing THE TICK ????


Toon Disney shows it daily at 10 pm.

This morning one of the local county papers reports that on November 18, 2005 Ronnie's IMAX theatre will open. The first movie will be "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire". Other movies will be "Batman Begins", "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory", a holiday re-release of "The Polar Express" and "Walking on the Moon 3D" a film narrated by Tom Hanks which focuses on the experiences of the 12 astronauts that have walked on the moon.

Sounds great.

Looks like we'll have hockey this fall, with the announcement today that the NHL has reached an agreement with its players.

So....

Now it's really time for FSMW-HD to get contracts with the local providers. Hello Charter? Hockey is the ideal sport for HD broadcasts. When HDNet was showing games it really provided proof of how fantastic it was to watch the NHL on tv.

Please Please....someone get on the horn with FSMW and get a contact in place before November!

Hockey in HD would be great. We are spoiled here in St. Louis with all the games we get to see for free. Well not really free as you have to have cable or sat, but still 90% of the games are on KPLR or FSMW. In some area's you are lucky to get even half of them on tv. Will be interesting with no ESPN this year unless something changes and they come to the table. It's going to be really hard for them to get all the fans back.

Quick question about the Moxi...

My parents are taking about buying a plasma TV. They have Charter service, but the old school first generation motorola box. I'm trying to figure out if it'd be best for them to upgrade to the Moxi and purchase the HD service.

- I'd like to know if the Moxi has a DVI or HDMI output and if it has been enabled as of yet. Do those of you with Moxi use component?
- Also, does the Moxi have a Digital or Coax audio output?

If someone has a screen shot of the back of the box that would be ideal. Thanks in advance.


On a side not...Blues in HD would be absolutely mind blowing. Especially if they cahnge the rules and jerseys for a faster game.

The last thing I've seen here about MOXI and DVI was posted back in early June:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5732007&&#post5732007

There may be something more current, but that's the most recent and relevant post here that I was able to find by searching this thread for "DVI" and "MOXI".

Also, please be aware that if your parents get a plasma and subscribe to MOXI that they or someone else absolutely, positively needs to confirm that the MOXI box has been set for the correct resolution.

I recently worked on a plasma panel where the customer a few months earlier had Charter replace a faulty MOXI box. Prior to calibration the customer was very unhappy with his picture quality. This was partly a result of electrical grounding problems, but even more fundamentally that Charter had left the replacement MOXI set for 480i output and the customer hadn't thought to check that afterward.

It's little wonder the picture quality wasn't up to snuff!

This demonstrates a major failing in how Charter does onsite technical support. If they're doing a swapout on this sort of gear, it should be part of their procedure to physically write down all critical user and/or system settings before removing a box and then ensuring that they are set correctly on the replacement before leaving the customer site. In instances where those settings aren't available, I don't think it's rocket science for a tech support person to know that a plasma panel should be set for 720p output. And if they don't know that, they should at least make a point of asking the customer if he/she has a preferred resolution.

In my mind, this is Customer Service 101, and there's really no excuse for this sort of cluelessness. If Charter is going to provide high-end products at high-end prices, the service and support side needs to get their collective act together.

I can't help but wonder how many MOXI boxes are out there in the field, connected to HDTVs and set up for 480i output...

Thanks Doug

Actually Local HD Channels are free, but as far as I am aware you have to have an HD Reciever which does cost more money. The moxi DVR box is HD ready or you can get an HD regular reciever for a few less than the moxi.

Phatty


AVSForum waited until 2 days later to let me know there were additional posts to this thread. Are they bogged down?

As far as the HD Receiver, I bought the FusionHDTV5 card in hopes of picking up QAM, but so far it hasn't worked. I'm wondering if Charter uses their own kind of coding. Wouldn't surprise me. I can't use an external HD decoder with my setup. Everything is run through my HTPC to my projector.

I have to agree with the others on the single-source speaker store. I'm not business savy, but I wouldn't see it working. Bose does this, but they have other means of support along with other items to draw people in.

Neuner,

Since the recent upgrade of the forum software, the eMail messages now contain the text of the first message you've missed.

While this is nice, it sometimes results in me not checking to see if there are other messages since the email notice. Then a day or two goes by without email notices and I finally realize that I haven't been back to the site to reset the notification trigger.

Nice feature to include the text in the eMail, but it might be TOO convenient...

Quick question about the Moxi...

- I'd like to know if the Moxi has a DVI or HDMI output and if it has been enabled as of yet. Do those of you with Moxi use component?
- Also, does the Moxi have a Digital or Coax audio output?


The Moxi has DVI output but it is not active at this time. Supposedly sometime soon. I use component and its beautiful. From what the Moxi/Digeo experts are saying even when the DVI port is enabled it will be very difficult to tell the difference between its DVI and component output quality.

And yes, the Moxi does has both digital audio and coax outputs too.

Datasheet here: http://www.digeo.com/assets/datasheets/datasheet_bmc9012.pdf

On a side not...Blues in HD would be absolutely mind blowing. Especially if they cahnge the rules and jerseys for a faster game.

I thought I saw on ESPN that they're getting rid of the red line and tapering the jerseys. Good news but IMHO I think they should increase the rink size to match the college/Olympic standard.

BTW: any news on FSMW and Charter getting some Cards in HD this season?

Thanks much for others putting in their $.02!!! Much thanks. You guys could save my a$$, that's why I consider this forum an important resource before launching something like this.

If done, the store would offer the following:

Speakers: single brand with a broad range- surround speaker packages that start at $500 to over $10K with crossover in between. A person could compare speakers that cost double, triple, or the same than other speakers within this brand.

Recievers & Amplifiers - A High end brand & mid price brand

DVD players---- maybe????

Delivery & Setup--- yes, at no additional charge for higher $ purchases

Home Theater- design & installation

TV's--- probably not, only for those that wish a TOTAL turn key HT system, my research tells me profit margin is thin & you start competing against Best Buy & Wal-Mart. (have any of you guys seen the TV selection at WM?, it's scary)

Cables, some accesories, etc.

You missed the point on the selling TVs. People will leave there homes and go shopping for a big screen. Sadly audio today is just an attachment to the big screen sale. People come in to look at $8000 plasmas are shocked when I show them a $3000 audio solution, and these are wealthy people. 95 out of 100 people don't care about audio, they just want surround sound with their flat screen.

Bottom line: You need to create floor traffic and audio wont do it alone.

You missed the point on the selling TVs. People will leave there homes and go shopping for a big screen. Sadly audio today is just an attachment to the big screen sale. People come in to look at $8000 plasmas are shocked when I show them a $3000 audio solution, and these are wealthy people. 95 out of 100 people don't care about audio, they just want surround sound with their flat screen.

Bottom line: You need to create floor traffic and audio wont do it alone.

Sounds like this is your business. I can believe what your saying, people often short change audio. I think I may have to shelve the idea. Maybe my own thought process got me stuck. I bought my big screen at one of the biggies and found the audio choices lacking for the $$$, so I went to one of the independants to find a little better quality for the audio part of my system. I don't want to sell TV's, too low a profit margin I believe (am I correct on this?), and too much space required. Curious, are you at an independant or one of the biggies?

The FusionHDTV cards can tune *unencrypted* QAM cable channels. Unfortunately, I've read many places that Charter encrypts ALL its HD channels (even the locals like KTVI, etc). So in the St. Louis area, the Fusion card (or any PCI HD tuner card) will work for OTA only.

Sounds like this is your business. I can believe what your saying, people often short change audio. I think I may have to shelve the idea. Maybe my own thought process got me stuck. I bought my big screen at one of the biggies and found the audio choices lacking for the $$$, so I went to one of the independants to find a little better quality for the audio part of my system. I don't want to sell TV's, too low a profit margin I believe (am I correct on this?), and too much space required. Curious, are you at an independant or one of the biggies?

He is at Ultimate Electronics one of the medium size chains with 30+ stores. What Tom says is true. Micro displays is driving the market right now. The stores that will survive are the ones that sell a lot of those displays and attach audio, accessories, labor to install and do it at close to what people will pay on the internet.
I would think long and hard about starting a business like this. Even speaker lines that used to bring 50+ points of margin are shrinking daily. The whole retail landscape is changing. I think the stores that will ultimately prosper will be stores like The Screening Room, The Sound Room, etc. I would look to those stores as possible models. I wish you luck if you go for it.

Scott

The FusionHDTV cards can tune *unencrypted* QAM cable channels. Unfortunately, I've read many places that Charter encrypts ALL its HD channels (even the locals like KTVI, etc). So in the St. Louis area, the Fusion card (or any PCI HD tuner card) will work for OTA only.

Dammn!! Thanks for the reply. How depressing. Sucks mostly b/c the Fusion has only one stupid antenna input, so if I want regular cable, I have to unplug the antenna and plug in Charter. I can get a cheap switch, but was hoping for something more convenient - oh well...



Dominicr;

I noticed your Theater Design service you listed that you would want to provide. I had given this some consideration quite a few years ago and could easily see it taking off, but I've also had great regular jobs so I really didn't pursue it. I didn't have time for both careers. I would suggest starting off with this b/c it would not require a lot of overhead, just time involvement along with experience. You might then be able to promote audio sales through your customers and begin a slow start that wouldn't require a huge funding up front. You would also have your Design Service as something to fall back on for revenue for when the market would slow down.

Don't let your dream down. Hopefully your still pumped about it. I would try to look at it from different aspects to see if there are other ways of getting it moving. If so, I would start writing a business plan. A business plan isn't for just obtaining funds from investment groups, but for direction and feasibility of an idea.

I have both Fusion Card and MyHD130.

I can pick up several QAM channels but none in HD only the digital signal.

On both I am able to pickup Fox, CBS, Lifetime for Woman, HEC, Channel 20, ESPN 1 & 2, PBS, NBC Shopping Channel, TBN, many channels that are only infomercials, and some payperview and ondemand channels but you have no control on what is showing and they seem to change frequently as if someone is channel surfing so you couldn't count on seeing an entire movie.

On the Fusion only for some reason I am now able to get NBC.

ESPN 1 & 2 just became available when they went digital the other day.

The Fusion is also able to get several of the music only channels.

There are like 18 non music channels that I am getting both sound and picture but many many more that are only picture and no sound.

These are the group of channels that I do not subscribe to and include FUZ, GAS,IFC, FUEL, BIO, DSC.

Waiting to see if more become available as they switch to all digital.

Ron

Dominicr;

I noticed your Theater Design service you listed that you would want to provide. I had given this some consideration quite a few years ago and could easily see it taking off, but I've also had great regular jobs so I really didn't pursue it. I didn't have time for both careers. I would suggest starting off with this b/c it would not require a lot of overhead, just time involvement along with experience. You might then be able to promote audio sales through your customers and begin a slow start that wouldn't require a huge funding up front. You would also have your Design Service as something to fall back on for revenue for when the market would slow down.

Don't let your dream down. Hopefully your still pumped about it. I would try to look at it from different aspects to see if there are other ways of getting it moving. If so, I would start writing a business plan. A business plan isn't for just obtaining funds from investment groups, but for direction and feasibility of an idea.

Thanks. I figured from day 1 that HT design & install would have to be included. I like stores like Sound Room, HiFi Fo Fum, etc. better than stores like BB, UE, no personal insults intended. But a concept like this REQUIRES a higher level of service. I really can't argue about what others are saying about TV. Maybe its the necessary evil of this whole thing. By the way, the brand I have in mind has a series of in-wall speakers for HT design. They like the idea of being the only brand represented. :)

B&o?

Help Please. I bought a Hi-Fi VCR last night, and I want to record some stuff off of PBS HD for my schoolkids. I cannot get it to record. Is there a way around this, or, would I be better off getting a DVD recorder. Or, is this not even possible? Please help ASAP as I am losing some very good shows for my kiddos. Thanks.

B&o?


I don't know if I want to reveal the name yet. All I can say is it is a name all here will know and the brand can take care of a variety of customers. Do you like B&O especially? I also wouldn't be interested in a brand that can be purchased all over. not that B&O is all over.

Help Please. I bought a Hi-Fi VCR last night, and I want to record some stuff off of PBS HD for my schoolkids. I cannot get it to record. Is there a way around this, or, would I be better off getting a DVD recorder. Or, is this not even possible? Please help ASAP as I am losing some very good shows for my kiddos. Thanks.


I would buy a DVD/hard disk recorder, ideally one that can handle HD.

Help Please. I bought a Hi-Fi VCR last night, and I want to record some stuff off of PBS HD for my schoolkids.

Wow, this could open a whole world of little issues for you until we understand your capabilities and that of the equipment your using at the school.

I'm only familiar with HTPC's but I will try my best: If you have a HD set top unit, then I believe you need a stand alone DVD recorder. You will have to really look at how these record the signal, how they can connect to your HD receiver, and in what format they burn to a DVD. This will matter if your trying to use the DVD in a schools' typical DVD player with regular television, unless your willing to take your DVD Recorder and possibly other equipment with you. There are also PVRs available, but those units would have to be taken to the school to be played.

If none of us are really able to answer your question to the appropriate extent, I would direct it to the right forum section.

chilmorg-

What are you using to tune in PBS-HD? A cable box, sat receiver or OTA HD tuner?

Hey all!!

I have a Mitsubishi 48" with a built-in tuner. So, I receive PBS OTA signals. Most schools still have VCR's, but in my room I have a VCR/DVD player with a standard analog tv. I am hoping that a DVD recorder may solve this problem. Any suggestions all?

Help Please. I bought a Hi-Fi VCR last night, and I want to record some stuff off of PBS HD for my schoolkids. I cannot get it to record. Is there a way around this, or, would I be better off getting a DVD recorder. Or, is this not even possible? Please help ASAP as I am losing some very good shows for my kiddos. Thanks.

You either need a DVHS (as in Digital) recorder or a digital to analog converter. I seem to remember that WalMart has one by US Digital for around $200 that will downconvert the HD to SD and record it on a normal VHS.

A couple of HD programming reminders/notes:

* Today at 3:15 pm and tomorrow at 1:15 pm the Cards versus the Astros are on in HD on KPLR. There's a long lag between these HD games and the next that are scheduled for KPLR during the first weekend of September (also against the Astros but in Houston).

* Hard to miss all the DirecTV MLB Extra Innings commercials over the past couple of days, but for anyone who missed them somehow, there's a free preview of the MLB package available on DirecTV from now through Monday's games. Also worth noting that there is some HD coverage available as part of the preview -- check the DirecTV channels that appear just after the network locals as that's where the HD games will show up.

Not sure if this preview is available on DISH or Charter, so maybe someone with those services who's in the know can fill in that blank...

Also, I'll try to check in with FOX Sports Midwest early next week to see if there's any news on their HD package and the negotiations with Charter. I suspect that no news is no news, as our contact there has said he will let me know ASAP if/when the situation changes.

Also worth noting that there is some HD coverage available as part of the preview -- check the DirecTV channels that appear just after the network locals as that's where the HD games will show up.


Thanks Doug. I didn't even think to check the HD feeds of the MLB preview.

Hopefully, I will get home from work early enough to catch some of the HD Cards in action today. btw, great game yesterday.

I will be surprised if the Cards - Houston game today on KPLR is in HD. I was at the game last night and the cameras being used were NOT HD cameras.

When I have been at the games in the past I always check the TV cameras to see if they have the HD logo on them and for previous ESPN and KPLR in HD all the cameras had the HD logo.

I think we HD Cardinals fans may be in for a disappointment today and Sunday.

:(

I will be surprised if the Cards - Houston game today on KPLR is in HD. I was at the game last night and the cameras being used were NOT HD cameras.

When I have been at the games in the past I always check the TV cameras to see if they have the HD logo on them and for previous ESPN and KPLR in HD all the cameras had the HD logo.

I think we HD Cardinals fans may be in for a disappointment today and Sunday.

:(

Just because Fox Sports broadcast in SD last night, doesn't mean KPLR can't bring in different cameras today to broadcast in HD.

winnie,

All games previously advertised as HD by KPLR have been HD, with the exception of one early broadcast that was plagued by technical problems (though strictly speaking it was still in HD).

I have no idea what causes your skepticism...

It appears that the Cards game is in HD. Looks great, but KPLR sound during broadcast is much lower than commercials. Does anyone know what the cause is?

Has KPLR boosted signal strenth recently?

It's been the only HD station I have trouble receiving OTA once the trees outside have all thier leaves, but today I've been able to lock on and retain a good signal for the Cards game.

Dean

KPLR-DT's sound level on HD programming has always been much lower than on SD upconverted stuff. It's not limited to Cardinal games... all the WB network HD programming (and network commercials) have volume much lower than the local upconverted commercials.

Well so much for my camera scooping...I was wrong the game was in HD.
Sorry about my bright idea of checking cameras.

Now looking forward to another HD Cardinal victory today.

30-1 Sound with no picture this Sunday morning on a Pani-plasma, but with a strong signal strength on the meter.

30-1 Sound with no picture this Sunday morning on a Pani-plasma, but with a strong signal strength on the meter.
I saw the same thing when I tuned in this morning.

I tried to tape the Championship with MyHD but no picture and no sound. Signal strength of 75. Noticed that it would not display the resolution on the info bar. Used the ATI that was connected to Charter to record.

Walt

I have a 50" plasma. How does the picture quality of the Moxi Box compare to the HDTV Box? Is it better, worse, or about the same. I need to make a decision on which to get with quality of picture being the primary concern.

StockInv,

Are you wanting a comparison between Charter's Moxi and Charter's HDTV box? If so, I have both and can chime in...

The Moxi has the same quality on HD and digital SD channels. The few remaining analog SD channels are a bit inferior but that is being addressed with Charter's all-digital-simulcast which should be completed in the next month.

Any other questions, let me know!

Thanks, ABC, that's exactly what I needed to know.

StockInv,

Theoretically speaking, there shouldn't be any differences between the output of the MOXI box and the standard Charter HD receiver. This is why we have standards for HDTV, display quality, setup, etc.

The fact is that the magnitude of variation between any two HD STBs is going to be miniscule, assuming those standards are properly adhered to and for the most part that I've found that to be true.

On the other hand, the variation in picture accuracy between two identical displays from the same manufacturer is, without question, going to be significantly greater, due to the fact that display standards are routinely ignored and the amount of time spent determining the correct factory settings is much shorter than the lifespan of your average fruit fly.

My apologies if that's MORE than you need to know... :)

I just wanted to ask if any one knew the blackout rules for the D* HD stuff. I have subscriptions to total choice prem and the HD package, Tonight FSMW has the Brewers and Cards game on 647. It's also listed to be in HD on channel 95 tonight and tomorrow. However there listing this as a MLB extra inning game. Now by all means correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they required to give me this game in HD if it's FSMW doing it? Earlier this year I ran into this but it was a FSLA broadcast and not FSMW broadcast and thats why I didn't get it. Does anybody have the information to confirm that we will or won't be getting it? I called the D* HD department and got a "I don't know".

I just wanted to ask if any one knew the blackout rules for the D* HD stuff. I have subscriptions to total choice prem and the HD package, Tonight FSMW has the Brewers and Cards game on 647. It's also listed to be in HD on channel 95 tonight and tomorrow. However there listing this as a MLB extra inning game. Now by all means correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they required to give me this game in HD if it's FSMW doing it? Earlier this year I ran into this but it was a FSLA broadcast and not FSMW broadcast and thats why I didn't get it. Does anybody have the information to confirm that we will or won't be getting it? I called the D* HD department and got a "I don't know".
Even if the game is available in HD on another channel, I think FSMW take priority and the HD broadcast will be blacked out. I ran into this 2 years ago with Blues Hockey on HD-Net. The HD-Net games were blacked out when FSMW was carrying the games. Maybe it's different if you are a MLB extra inning subscriber.

Well I did some research and found out our FSMW isn't part of the FSN HD network so we won't be getting the game in HD from D*. Has anybody gotten FSMW HD from a cable provider?

The TICK (the good one, the animated one) has started airing on Toon Disney. I believe it's 10PM, or something like that.

-Hanjke

Well I did some research and found out our FSMW isn't part of the FSN HD network so we won't be getting the game in HD from D*. Has anybody gotten FSMW HD from a cable provider?


I wish! We are hoping that Charter will pick it up at some time.

Speaking of Charter, does anyone have any idea when the next group of analogs will go digital? What a difference it makes. The British Open on TNT was actually very watchable compare to other golf on the Golf Channel which is very poor.

I wish! We are hoping that Charter will pick it up at some time.

Speaking of Charter, does anyone have any idea when the next group of analogs will go digital? What a difference it makes. The British Open on TNT was actually very watchable compare to other golf on the Golf Channel which is very poor.

The next group of channels going digital is next Tuesday from what I hear. It was also stated that this next group will be the largest amount of channels going digital.

The next group of channels going digital is next Tuesday from what I hear. It was also stated that this next group will be the largest amount of channels going digital.

abcward-

Do you know if the next upgrade group is supposed to include the major networks?

The next group of channels going digital is next Tuesday from what I hear. It was also stated that this next group will be the largest amount of channels going digital.

Will that include:

locals (KTVI, KMOV etc)
Fox Sports MW
SciFi?


Sorry Saluki, we posted at the same time.

From the rumor mill...
In September Discovery HD, PBS, CinemaxHD coming to Charter.

DIGITAL CHARTER

The following are networks going digital in the next round. Tentatively scheduled for July 26th. The local network affiliates are not included here- they are scheduled for round three.

Weather Channel
A&E
ABC Family
AMC
History
Fox News Channel
Oxygen
Spike (TNN)
Travel Channel
VH-1
Cartoon
Fox Sport MW
Bravo
Comedy Central
Court TV
Discovery
CNN
Nickelodeon East
TBS
Univision
TV land
Turner Classic
MTV
CNN Headline news
Food Network
FX
Golf Channel
MSNBC
Outdoor Life
Sci-FI
TLC
USA
MTV 2

DIGITAL CHARTER

The following are networks going digital in the next round. Tentatively scheduled for July 26th. The local network affiliates are not included here- they are scheduled for round three.

Weather Channel
A&E
ABC Family
AMC
History
Fox News Channel
Oxygen
Spike (TNN)
Travel Channel
VH-1
Cartoon
Fox Sport MW
Bravo
Comedy Central
Court TV
Discovery
CNN
Nickelodeon East
TBS
Univision
TV land
Turner Classic
MTV
CNN Headline news
Food Network
FX
Golf Channel
MSNBC
Outdoor Life
Sci-FI
TLC
USA
MTV 2

Thank you very much!

When is round 3 scheduled? Because it looks like round 2 plus round 1 = most of the analog channels except for 002, 004, 005, 009, 011 and 012.

Charter continuous to dumbfound me.
You would think the locals are the most watched of the analog channels, why would you not include those in phase 1?

Never underestimate the problems one may encounter with technology. I read last year how Charter ran into troubles going all digital in Long Beach, CA. Suprisingly it was the analog cable networks that gave the most resistance. That didn't really make sense to me, as the satellites already were all digital. Maybe it had something to do with DVRs and skipping ads. Those lower channels are ad supported networks. Anyway, my two cents.

Charter continuous to dumbfound me.
You would think the locals are the most watched of the analog channels, why would you not include those in phase 1?

That is the exactly the reason why it is in Phase 3 rather than Phase 1. Cable Repair has been overloaded with calls in regards to picture problems with Phase 1. This is because most people can put up with a snowy picture.

If they launched the locals, which everyone watches in the STL area, then everyone in the STL will calling in with the trouble. These problems are mostly due to inside wiring issues.

Having it in Phase 3 roll out will minimize the call volume since not everyone will be calling in, but only ppl who watch the cable channels that are in Phase 1, and then the same with Phase 2.

Oh keep in mind, the phase launch dates are tentative and may be changed due to the call volume or amount of trouble calls that are set up.

Mark

That is the exactly the reason why it is in Phase 3 rather than Phase 1. Cable Repair has been overloaded with calls in regards to picture problems with Phase 1. This is because most people can put up with a snowy picture.

If they launched the locals, which everyone watches in the STL area, then everyone in the STL will calling in with the trouble. These problems are mostly due to inside wiring issues.

Having it in Phase 3 roll out will minimize the call volume since not everyone will be calling in, but only ppl who watch the cable channels that are in Phase 1, and then the same with Phase 2.

Oh keep in mind, the phase launch dates are tentative and may be changed due to the call volume or amount of trouble calls that are set up.

Mark

So you're saying some people who had bad wiring and thus bad signals were loosing channels because digital is "all-or-none". I understand Charter's thinking with the roll-out.

For me On-Demand didn't work three days after the first digital switchover.

So you're saying some people who had bad wiring and thus bad signals were loosing channels because digital is "all-or-none". I understand Charter's thinking with the roll-out.

For me On-Demand didn't work three days after the first digital switchover.

Yes you are correct. Since the poor inside wiring (and I am not ruling out plant issues in the area either), people put up with bad picture. Since it is analog, the poor picture is snowy. However, now those channels are digital, instead of snow, people are getting the black screen, One Moment Please, and tiling.

Mark

When I had Charter they offered inside wire maintenance. They would try to sell the service whenever you spoke to a serv rep. They were selling a service they could not define. I asked reps on several occasions where the point of demarcation was located and they don't know. Much like the local phone companies it seems as though they would be required to provide a test point at the residence that permits the subscriber to determine in which direction the problem exists. The box (protection/splitter) on the outside of the residense, is protected by a device that indicates whether or not someone has tampered with device. At what point does Charter's responsibility end. It would indicate that the first accessable point is where the customer responsibility starts. In many cases that would be the TV. Anyone having been billed for inside maintenance should have a gripe. Anyone billed for repair work inside the residence should have a gripe. Sounds like a candidate for a class action case in Madison County to me:)


Charter does not own the wiring that is inside the home, nor does Charter have access to this wiring without customer's involvement.

The demarcation point is at the cable house box on the outside of the home, or where the wiring enters the home from the ped box or telephone pole for persons who do not have a cable house box.

According to the MO Local Exchange Tariff for Charter Telephone Service, the Demarcation Point to is referred to as:

http://www.charter.com/pdf/MOLocalExchange.pdf (page 8)

Demarcation Point: The point (referred to as Demarc Point or Network Interface) of interconnection between the Telephone Company's facilities and the wiring at the subscriber's premises. The Demarc Point shall consist of wire or a jack conforming to Subpart F of Part 68 of the Federal Communications Commission's Rules and Regulations. The Demarc Point will generally be within twelve inches of the protector or, absent a protector, within twelve inches of the entry point to the customer's premises. If conforming to the twelve inches is unrealistic or technically impossible, the Demarc Point will be the most practicable minimum point of entry to the customer's premises. The network interface may be located at a point other than the normal demarcation point where the network interface has been previously established by the presence of network equipment. With regard to premises for any structure that is built to be mobile (e.g. mobile homes, recreational vehicles), the Telephone Company may place the Demarc point on a post or pole at or near the pad where such structure is intended to rest. Boat docks, marines, and similar premises may be treated by the Telephone Company as a single unit premises, with the Demarc Point being placed on the shore or other location as deemed appropriate by the Telephone Company.



Mark

Nor does the telephone company. That is why Government regulation mandates a network interface"Demarc", which allows the customer to prove the service good to house.




My cable house box was secured by a tag much like the electric meter. It's obvious that the tag is there to indicate that the homeowner should not open this box. If I can't open the box, I can't split the house coax off from the Charters line. Am I required to cut the line within 12 inches of it entering my home and install a test point? If Charter does not provide me with an accessible demarc and identify it as such (like the phone company), they should not charge to prove the service good to the house. This is one reason why I left Charter. I had a problem with the signal to all TV's in my home. I opened the "Demarc" and ran a newly purchased coax through the window to prove that the signal was bad to the house. I did this because they refused to dispatch unless someone was home. When I advised them that I proved the signal bad, they still would not dispatch. How damned pig headed can they be? If the "technician" doesn't know how to use a meter just tell me that they lack the competence to repair the service. I explained to the supervisor that they could repair the service or cancel my CATV and Pipeline. I now am a troublefree user a satellite dish and have DSL.
Nothing like a little "Good old fashioned customer service" to maintain the subscriber base.



This refers to telephone service and doesn't mention CATV or Pipeline. I guess TV and internet are on the unregulated side of the house.

Ferl,

If the Charter Technician came to the home and saw the problem to be with the main line, then a truck roll charge would not have occurred. The charge would have occurred if the problem was with your inside wiring.

Charter policy is that they will not roll a truck unless a person over the age of 18 is home so the technician will be able to resolve any issues that are in the home if the problem is in the home. Even if the tech came out the home and did resolve the problem on the outside did not mean that there would have been issues in the home that were being masked by the problem on the outside.

I would imagine that the same definition regarding the demarcation point on the Telephone Service Tariff would also be on the francise agreement with your municipality.

Mark

Looks like KMOV is taking a page from the KSDK playbook tonight.

CSI:NY is lighting up the 5.1 flag on my receiver, but I'm only getting sound from the left and right front speakers. This is from my HD Tivo and the FusionHDTV card in my HTPC.

Boo, hiss.............

The following is a story from today's SkyREPORT newsletter.

The real point of local interest here is that DirecTV has signed with Sinclair for HD carriage of local Sinclair stations, and presumably this would include KDNL in St. Louis.

I thought this was worth posting, only because it would indicate that when DirecTV launches HD locals for the St. Louis market, KDNL-DT would likely be included.

Bear in mind that the situation with Charter is different from that of DirecTV. Charter and other cable companies have never had to pay for access to local analog stations, due to Congressional mandate. That mandate never covered satellite TV, so when satellite was finally in a position to add analog locals 5 years ago, they had to negotiate with each broadcast company for that right.

__________________________________

Viacom and DirecTV announced early Tuesday that they signed a comprehensive long-term agreement that secures continued carriage of several key Viacom programming properties.

The deal also provides DirecTV with the rights to launch CBS' HDTV programming on a local basis, giving the satellite TV company another agreement to support its delivery of about 1,500 local HD channels. DirecTV is in the process of launching its local HD programming initiative for later this year, using two Ka-Band satellites to support the effort.

Other local HD deals for DirecTV include a retransmission consent agreement reached with Sinclair Broadcast Group earlier in the year, which will allow the satellite TV company to offer the broadcaster's local TV stations in high-def.

As for the Viacom deal, it also covers carriage of local UPN and CBS owned and operated stations and basic networks. Those programming properties include BET and several MTV Networks channels, including, MTV, Nickelodeon, VH1, TV Land, Comedy Central, Spike TV, CMT, Noggin, BET, MTV2, VH1 Classic, Nicktoons, and MTV Espanol.
__________________________________

Finally had a chance to observe one of the new ditital channels last night and am very impressed. My wife had HGTV (of course I don't watch it or Logo:) but when I walked in I could have sworn it was was high def it it wasn't in 4:3 format. Very clear, no graininess at all. Wow

Anyone notice ch 791 showing up as INHD on Charter today? There is no schedule to it, just SIGN OFF.

Finger crossed...

I noticed it either yesterday or the day before, I can't remember which.

Julie

I noticed the Icon showed up yesterday on the Moxi menu, over the past weekend they had a number of ppv shows listed, albeit mostly porn, and Jerry Springer which I guess could be considered one in the same. There were some extreme cage fighting and japanese wrestling and I believe a concert also. Maybe programs are only available on weekends, but can't complain at least there is another HD channel.

I thought before today that 791 was simply a HD PPV channel, but now it has the "INHD" logo on the channel. Does INHD even do PPV? I'm confused.

SBC seeking to "evolve the relationship" with DISH

The following is from today's Evening Bridge market close report:
____________________________________

News outlets reported SBC Communications is seeking to renegotiate the agreement it has to resell EchoStar's DISH Network.

After discussing SBC's Q2 results, in which the company added only 10,000 new DISH customers - only a fraction of the amount analysts had expected - CEO Edward Whitacre said the companies are looking at "how to evolve the relationship."
____________________________________

I posted this because I know there are a number of DISH customers here receiving their service via SBC.

There are supposed to be additional details in tomorrow's SkyREPORT newsletter and if there's anything interesting, I'll do an update.

More on SBC-DISH 2Q Results, Future Direction

The following story is from the SkyREPORT newsletter and provides additional details on SBC's 2Q earnings report and its activities related to the DISH-SBC marketing agreement:

_______________________________________

SBC Communications reported lower than expected subscriber additions for its DISH Network business during the second quarter, numbers that Wall Street observers closely scrutinized Thursday.

Early in the day, SBC reported that during the second quarter it added only 10,000 video customers from its DISH Network sales effort, compared to 101,000 in second quarter 2004 and 71,000 in the first quarter. The SBC effort keeps its DISH Network subscriber base at about the 400,000 mark.

SBC is in a partnership with EchoStar to bundle DISH Network video services with broadband and voice offerings. SBC CEO Edward Whitacre said the companies are looking at "how to evolve the relationship."

Jeff Wlodarczak of Wachovia Capital Markets said the low subscriber additions for the SBC/DISH Network business may reflect higher churn among the regional phone company's satellite TV subscribers, SBC's re-focus on its future fiber-based video product, "and the fact that we believe SBC and DISH are renegotiating their agreement to move more toward a deal similar to DirecTV's with Verizon and BellSouth, which we view as a positive," he said.

Doug Shapiro of Banc of America Securities said the SBC/DISH Network subscriber miss is a modest negative for EchoStar, "but doesn't necessarily signal the death knell of the SBC/EchoStar relationship."

Analysts expected a higher DISH Network number from SBC. Wlodarczak had estimated about 60,000 DISH Network additions for SBC during the quarter, while Shapiro had predicted 75,000 2Q additions for the SBC/DISH Network effort.

SBC executives, speaking during a second quarter conference call, said they're changing their strategy somewhat with DISH Network sales, curbing promotion of the satellite TV service where its Project Lightspeed fiber network, which will deliver video, broadband and voice services, will be located. The company is pushing DISH Network in other areas, especially where cable competition is strong, they said.

Also, executives hyped a "Home Zone" product coming out soon that will integrate a DISH Network set-top box with SBC's DSL service.
_______________________________________

NFL Network to Air 15 Pre-Season Games in HD; No Rams

The following story was highlighted in today's TVPredictions.com newsletter and is based on a story appearing at the NFL web site:

______________________________________________________

(July 21, 2005) -- Top NFL rookies and veterans will be on display this summer on NFL Network in crystal clear high definition.

NFL Network will air 15 preseason games in "HD" including three games featuring the two-time defending Super Bowl champion New England Patriots and the first NFL game in the careers of numerous first-round draft picks including Alex Smith (49ers), Carnell Williams (Buccaneers), Carlos Rogers (Redskins) and Braylon Edwards (Browns).

In addition, fans will see other first-round draft choices on display including Ronnie Brown (Dolphins) and Matt Jones (Jaguars) over the course of the preseason in high definition.

These 15 games are also available in standard definition as part of NFL Network’s coverage of 55 preseason games in 25 days this summer.

Below are the 2005 preseason games airing in high definition on NFL Network.

Week 1
Saturday, August 13 at 3 p.m. ET -- New England at Cincinnati
Saturday, August 13 at 10 p.m. ET (live) -- Oakland at San Francisco
Sunday, August 14 at 11 p.m. ET -- New York Giants at Cleveland
Monday, August 15 at 4 p.m. ET -- Washington at Carolina
Tuesday, August 16 at 12 Noon ET -- Tampa Bay at Tennessee

Week 2
Sunday, August 21 at 8 p.m. ET -- Carolina at New York Giants
Monday, August 22 at 1 p.m. ET -- San Francisco at Denver
Tuesday, August 23 at 12 Noon ET -- Jacksonville at Tampa Bay
Wednesday, August 24 at 12 Noon ET -- Cincinnati at Washington

Week 3
Saturday, August 27 at 4 p.m. ET -- New England at Green Bay
Sunday, August 28 at 8 a.m. ET -- New York Jets at New York Giants
Sunday, August 28 at 12:30 p.m. ET -- Tampa Bay at Miami

Week 4
Friday, September 2 at 12 Noon ET -- Houston at Tampa Bay
Saturday, September 3 at 12 Midnight ET -- New York Giants at New England
Monday, September 5 at 3 p.m. ET -- Washington at Baltimore
______________________________________________________

I thought before today that 791 was simply a HD PPV channel, but now it has the "INHD" logo on the channel. Does INHD even do PPV? I'm confused.


I think you have "InDemand" PPV, that might broadcast an HD PPV event on that channel, then you also have the two "INHD" channels--that seem to have the same combination of programming as HDnet and HDmovies--that is not PPV. If you go to the "InDemand" website (indemand.com), there is a link for the two "INHD" channels, so maybe this cable consortioum that owns INHD, also owns InDemand PPV.

I don't have MOXI, and my channel on the digital bo does not say "INHD". It continues to just say HDPPV.

If Charter got the two INHD channels, I would be extremely happy. However, I just think they are (incorrectly) calling the HD PPV channel, "INHD". Hope I'm wrong.

Has anyone else noticed lately how FSMW on DirecTV resembles dog manure? It seems like it's been way downhill since just after the All-Star break.

I was hoping to take video (and audio) refuge at WGN during the Cubs-Cards game tonight, but 307 looks just as bad as FSMW (though still much kinder to the ear).

I checked these on an analog set, and even at 27 inches they looked poor.

Newbie questions for you guys...

A few weeks ago I talked about trying to pick up HD signals over the air. I finally got the time to play around and mess with it this week. But, I have a few questions.

First, here's my equipment. I have a Sony 55inch LCD HDTV, KDF55WF655 (http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=1000383) Here's what I'm using to pull in HDTV signals. (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D236) At least that's the best I could find online. The old rabbit ears I'm using are at least twenty years old.

Anyway, I just wanted to see what I could do. This TV is in my basement family room and I hooked these rabbit ears up to the TV and bam! I was able to pull in some digital signals! It was really, really cool. Here's the thing. I've been able to manipulate the ears to get locked in to KTVI-Fox2. I"ve also been able to manipulate them to lock into KSDK-Channel5 and the WeatherPlus channel, 5.2. I can also lock in to WB-11KPLR.

Question 1: These signals look good, they're clearly digital, but they are 4:3. For whatever reason, I cannot get them in 16x9 on my television. This Sony has the option to Zoom, Wide Zoom, Full, and no matter what I do, I cannot get the "full" signal. Now, I do not believe this is a television problem because when I play DVDs, it works quite well in anamorphic 16x9 mode; it takes up the whole screen. Any ideas what I need to do to fix this?

Question 2: Any ideas why I can't pick up KMOV-CBS, or KDNL30? Any advice?

Question 3: Does this mean that I could likely pick up HDTV well w/ one of those indoor antennas, something like this (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1870) or this one (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1880) or this one from WalMart? (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2625058)

Final question: Is the Cards game Saturday, against the Cubbies on Fox2 going to be in HD? I'd love to watch my first HD game tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help.

Has anyone else noticed lately how FSMW on DirecTV resembles dog manure? It seems like it's been way downhill since just after the All-Star break.

I was hoping to take video (and audio) refuge at WGN during the Cubs-Cards game tonight, but 307 looks just as bad as FSMW (though still much kinder to the ear).

I checked these on an analog set, and even at 27 inches they looked poor.


I honestly haven't noticed that yet on the video front.

As far as audio, I see no refuge from Hridiculous.

Winston,

The first three messages at the beginning of this thread will answer many of your questions. Come back and ask a follow-up if you're still in the dark about anything.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=454301&page=1&pp=50

Not sure but very doubtful on HD for Cubs-Cards on Saturday. FOX seems to only do the All-Star Game and playoffs in HD for baseball. However, the ESPN Sunday Night game will be in HD.

In my opinion don't get any of those antennas. Go to Sears and get a Silver Sensor. All my readings and personal experience show that this is one of the best or the best indoor antennas on the market. However if you are looking for a antenna to pull in VHF/UHF then the Silver Sensor is not for you.

Has anyone else noticed lately how FSMW on DirecTV resembles dog manure? It seems like it's been way downhill since just after the All-Star break.

I was hoping to take video (and audio) refuge at WGN during the Cubs-Cards game tonight, but 307 looks just as bad as FSMW (though still much kinder to the ear).

I checked these on an analog set, and even at 27 inches they looked poor.

Yup. I noticed tonight. And I noticed on WGN, too.

I would have thought since DirecTV and the Fox Sports channels are both owned by the same company (NewsCorp), there'd be more bandwidth available.