Merged (#7269)

Wow, the Rams looked like the Greatest Show on Turf again tonight! And so did the PQ on KDNL-DT!

Does anyone have any informaiton on when Charter is going to add KDNL-ABC30 to their HD lineup? I know there was some talk that Charter had agreed to terms with Sinclair a while back, is there an update?

MNF is not going to be much fun this year if not in HD. After watching preseason games on CBS and FOX there is no comparison.

The game last night in SD was horrible to look at in SD. Almost as bad as the Cardinal games on FSMW in SD.

Brad,

I haven't seen anything to indicate that Charter and Sinclair have reached an agreement, and I highly doubt this is going to happen any time soon. I think there was recent news about another cable company that agreed to terms with Sinclair, but I don't believe this involved Charter in any way.

Time is definitely on Charter's side, so I think the stalemate continues until the HD viewer numbers go way up or as we get closer to the analog shutdown date.

In other words, Sinclair eventually will blink when it loses enough eyeballs/ad dollars due to limited KDNL distribution. Not having KDNL-DT really doesn't seem to be a big issue in Charter losing customers. Or at least I can't recall anyone here pulling the plug and moving to satellite just over the KDNL shortcoming.

Does anyone have any informaiton on when Charter is going to add KDNL-ABC30 to their HD lineup? I know there was some talk that Charter had agreed to terms with Sinclair a while back, is there an update?



Charter has not come to an agreement with Sinclair. Doug is right, time is on their (our) side. I believe Comcast was trying to work out a deal. Brian Roberts is huge into cutting edge technology, but he's also big on profits. I don't believe anything ever came of the agreement. With MNF gearing up again , perhaps they will. I know there was supposed to be a temperary agreement in Baltimore last January because Sinclair owns Fox in that market, and many people were looking at having to watch the Super Bowl in SD. What is this, the middle ages?

It stinks that we are all caught in the middle of it in St. Louis every Monday night (MNF) and Sunday night (Lost and Alias.)

Then again, maybe I don't want to see Jennifer Garner in HD this year, knowing that Ben Affleck's child is on its way.

Oh the humanity!

-Hanjke

The other test with Sinclair and HD locals will be when DirecTV gets the MPEG-4 boxes going and rolls out the big 4 broadcast networks and your local HD versions. Sinclair will have more egg on their face if they don't let DirecTV show their HD locals.

The way Sinclair acts, they will probably make Direct Tv pay for the HD feed of ABC here, just like they want Charter to pay for it. Question is, will Direct TV pay for it.

Brad may be remembering the deal between sinclair and dish for the normal abc rebroadcast. Couldn't charter put themselves into a better negotiating position by taking sd ABC away until sinclair ponies up. Or is there a current agreement that wouldn't allow it. I thought cable rebroadcast was mandated by law.
Just some thoughts
Dug

The way Sinclair acts, they will probably make Direct Tv pay for the HD feed of ABC here, just like they want Charter to pay for it. Question is, will Direct TV pay for it.

Of course they will. They already pay cash carriage fees for the SD locals. When D* starts carrying HD LILs, it will only weaken the case of the cable companies. Even Viacom has stated that they will be moving to a cash model next go around for all their owned properties.

I thought cable rebroadcast was mandated by law.


If a local station invokes the Must Carry law, then the cable company must add it to their lineup. However, that means that the cable company does not have to pay for carriage. Most network affiliates do not invoke the law and decide instead to negotiate a carriage fee for that channel.

Must Carry is usually only a factor with very small independent stations.

Couldn't charter put themselves into a better negotiating position by taking sd ABC away until sinclair ponies up. Or is there a current agreement that wouldn't allow it. I thought cable rebroadcast was mandated by law.
Just some thoughts
Dug

"Must carry" states that the cable co has to cablecast available local broadcast channels. Charter couldn't just drop ABC. They could drop the SD broadcast, and transmit the HD version. The whole debate stems to the fact that the networks want must carry to continue in the digital spectrum, where the networks have multiple signals. The networks want all the "channels" to be carried, while the service providers only want to carry one. Sinclair said, "Fine. The you can only have one and have to pay for the other one," in a nutshell. Since it is the same programming offered, just in different formats- can't it be argued that providers would simply be rebroadcasting the same thing twice?

My 2 cents...

Any taken a look at LATE NIGHT in HD?
It's great we're finally able to surf between Leno & Letterman in high quality now!

Yeah, I watched Letterman last night and thought it looked really good. There was a bit of a problem with the camera work in that they seemed to be cutting it close at the top of the screen. But other than that, it looked real nice.

I was a little surprised that they didn't do anything to spruce up the set. Granted, it looked pretty good, but in the opening you could see there were a couple of stains on the guest chairs. And that was before Andy Dick sat in one of them... ;)

According to a reliable source over in the HDTV Programming thread, Late Night will be converting to DD5.1 in reasonably short order.

Charter couldn't just drop ABC.

Once the contract they are operating under expires, they could absolutely drop ABC. If ABC was willing to give away the channel for free, they could force the cable company to carry it at no charge, but no major affiliate will do that - they will require compensation, or let the cable company drop it.

The following is an excerpt of a review of last night's HDTV debut of Late Night with David Letterman, written by Phillip Swann of TVPredictions.com

While Swann makes some credible points in his review, it's obvious that this guy is looking to make a name for himself by denigrating the HD-worthiness of various Hollywood and TV personalities. Dave's schtick may be getting long in the tooth, but Swann's seems considerably more contrived and tired.

_____________________________________________________

Late Night With David Letterman last night aired for the first time in High-Definition TV.

Based on Monday's broadcast, CBS might want to merge the show with ABC's Extreme Makeover.

The production was generally sound with crisp pictures of both the indoor studio and the New York streets that surround the Ed Sullivan Theater, where the show is taped.

But the problem is the host. At age 58, Letterman is just not HDTV-friendly. His face has more creases than a 10-year-old pair of pants. He doesn't look like he had open heart surgery; he looks like he had open face surgery. Seriously, his face has more lines than his writers. (Which ain't saying that much; when did this show stop being funny?)
_____________________________________________________

To read the complete review, click here. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/letterman083005.html)

Hanjke,
Lost and Alias on Sunday night? I thought I saw ads for Lost starting up on Wed. 9-21 and Alias on Thursday 9-29(yes, no waiting til January!!).

Hey CPanther since you're hanging out here:
Based upon your name and avatar I would assume you're a Carolina Panthers fan.

Did you see the Rams/Lions game last night? Is it just me or did the Lions new uniforms look almost exactly like the Panthers uniform? I'm surpised the NFL let them go through with a uniform is almost an exact copy.

What are you thoughts?

Lost will be on Wednesday nights, Alias on Thursday nights. Until last season, alias was a fixture on ABC Sundays.

And as for Alias' allure dimming because Jennifer Garner spawned with Ben Affleck, :eek: the hot little blonde from THE INSIDE will be joining the Alias cast this season.

Hey CPanther since you're hanging out here:
Based upon your name and avatar I would assume you're a Carolina Panthers fan.

Did you see the Rams/Lions game last night? Is it just me or did the Lions new uniforms look almost exactly like the Panthers uniform? I'm surpised the NFL let them go through with a uniform is almost an exact copy.

What are you thoughts?

I was trying to remember what that fuggly jersey reminded me of...You hit the nail on the head.

wm,

Thanks for passing on the details of the $299 deal on the HD-TiVos. And congrats on landing a sweet deal -- I know you're going to enjoy it, hopefully for a couple of years.


Guys came today, and they dropped it off. I hooked it up myself. They gave me an extra dish, too (I already have the wide 3 LNB dish).

As far as enjoying it, this is my 2nd one. I bought the first one for $999 when it came out and DirecTV gave me a $250 programming credit, so I know what it is like to be an earlier adopter.

The only issue I have now is the SEVERE overscan on the LCD TV upstairs. 480p looks good, centered and everything, but 720p or 1080i is bad. It shifts the picture to the right so bad it is annoying. I am using the HDMI connection.

This is a Philips 23inch LCD HDTV if anyone has any solutions for me.

I was trying to remember what that fuggly jersey reminded me of...You hit the nail on the head.

Ha Ha.

They didn't remind me of the Panther's jerseys. They just remind me of the same thing all new NFL jerseys do - NFL Europe, CFL, or from some commercial where the company was too cheap to pay the NFL a rights fee to use an actual jersey.

Problem is that statistically black jerseys sell better. That's why Atlanta went from Red to Black, Eagles went to a very dark green - but the Lions cheated, they never had black as even a minor color in their jerseys. They should be fined. ;)

Wow, the Rams looked like the Greatest Show on Turf again tonight! And so did the PQ on KDNL-DT!

Yeah, but too bad KDNL can't get the sound right. :confused:

Scott

Hanjke,
Lost and Alias on Sunday night? I thought I saw ads for Lost starting up on Wed. 9-21 and Alias on Thursday 9-29(yes, no waiting til January!!).

I guess I'm torn about that. On one hand, we don't have to wait. On the other hand, it was nice that the season ran straight through, with almost no reruns.

-Hanjke

As a follow up to my post yesterday about when ABC30 would be offered by Charter, here is the response I got from Charter. As expected, nothing to say.

"Thank you for your e-mail submission to our website.

We are currently in contractual negotiations with several broadcast companies for HD programming. At the present time, we have no further information as to when additional HD channels will be available.

Customer Care Team
Charter - Get Hooked"

I've received that response numerous times--its an automatic response.

Hope their still on track for Discovery HD and PBS HD on 9/15.


Wish they would finish the all digital service too--the lower numbers. If we can't have ABC HD, at least maybe we can get it in digital format, rather than analog.

Hey guys! New member here, but I've been a lurker on AVS for months. I do have some information that I think all of you fellow StL HD'ers will appreciate. As far as new HD channels on Charter goes, I have confirmation that PBS, Discovery, and Cinemax HD will all be launching on September 15th. Talks are also ongoing for TNT, ESPN2, and ABC. Last I was told, the reason for the holdup w/ABC is because they are asking for 50 cents PER SUBSCRIBER in order for Charter to carry their HDTV feed... absolutely ridiculous. Don't get your hopes up for either of those 3 channels before the end of 2005 though... sadly.

On another note, has anyone obtained a list or can confirm which shows KSDK is doing in DD 5.1 in primetime? Law & Order: Special Victims Unit was in DD 3.0 last night, and it wrecks havoc with my surround sound. :( I am tempted to e-mail the station to see if they can give me any additional info. Hope everyone found the above information useful!

M4X

Anyone else loose D* channels yesterday. I no longer get 80,81,82,83, and some others. Bummer! No more Lost in 5.1.

Scott

Moxi-Mate Is here
Starting August 31st Charter St. Louis will begin offering a version of DVR that delivers all the benefits of Digital Video Recording, now supporting two rooms! It’s even better than having two DVR devices, because all your recorded programs can be accessed from either room.

The Charter Multi-Room DVR system consists of a Charter Multi-Room DVR main receiver and a small receiver called a “Moxi Mate,” which extends the functionality of the DVR to a second TV. It requires no special wiring, just existing coaxial cabling.

The Multi-Room DVR system provides the following features and benefits:
• All DVR features are available in both rooms, so customers can Pause, Rewind, and Replay live TV, Fast-forward, and record entire series of programs with one command.
• Double the available storage for recordings with a 160 GB hard drive, versus 80 GB hard drive on the 1-TV version.
• Play DVDs with the built-in player (all in one remote control for TV, DVR, and DVD), plus share content and watch DVDs on the second TV.
• All digital channels (including HD channels and recordings) are accessible from the second room, scaled for viewing on a standard TV. (Note – the Moxi Mate is NOT an HD receiver)
• Schedule, manage, and watch recorded shows from both TVs.
• Enjoy applications such as Charter On Demand, Pay Per View, or DVD options from either room.
• The cost is only a few dollars more per month than the one-room DVR solution, and a $6.99 savings per month over having two DVR receivers.


Mark

The moxi mate, the two room dvr for Charter, just released today. From what I hear there is not a waiting list for this DVR (since it is two different boxes than the single room dvr).

Mark


Trying to confirm pricing information of this DVR, but keep getting a 'we don't know what your talking about', or 'no release date has been set' escuses. on my 2nd transfer now. I'll post when I have some information.

Trying to confirm pricing information of this DVR, but keep getting a 'we don't know what your talking about', or 'no release date has been set' escuses. on my 2nd transfer now. I'll post when I have some information.


Ok, well they could not quote me a specific price. The paper work the guy had was only worded as "only a few dollars more per month" Same thing that Mark Posted.... So he told me 2-3$ more a month should be the price. I was then transfered to another person who said they were only taking names down for them and they don't expect to actually start sending the boxes out till sometime in September. September is tomorrow, but who knows how quick I will get a call back. Hopefully when they call back they have a specific price for me.

Phatty

I just called and they said 26.99 more a month... They then transferred me to a busy signal. Somethings never change.

Called back and have it scheduled to be installed Friday afternoon. $8.45 more per month.

I just called and they said 26.99 more a month... They then transferred me to a busy signal. Somethings never change.

Called back and have it scheduled to be installed Friday afternoon. $8.45 more per month.


Man thats a lot more expensive than I was hoping. whats the 'few more a month' stand for then. Guess I may be stuck with the 80gb cuz I don't need the Mate box all I was looking for is larger hard drive. But I would find it difficult to pay almost 20 more a month for a moxi (current 10 additional plus that 8.45 quoted).

Phatty

Does this mean that there won't be a stand alone 160GB Moxi box? That you have to have the Moximate configuration to get 160GB?

Anyone else loose D* channels yesterday. I no longer get 80,81,82,83, and some others. Bummer! No more Lost in 5.1.

Scott

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=575230

Does this mean that there won't be a stand alone 160GB Moxi box? That you have to have the Moximate configuration to get 160GB?

Your guess is as good as mine...

You do have to get the moxi mate package to get the 160gb unit. The single room package is still the 80gb hard drive.

If you're able to sign up for the $47.99 package (an existing dish customer switching to Charter or maybe even a new subscriber) you can get the moxi mate package for an extra $16.94. (The price for the single moxi unit with the $47.99 package was an extra $10.)

I just contacted a CSR from Charter. He said that it would be about $10 more per month and that they won't get any boxes until next week.

Moxi-Mate Is here
Starting August 31st Charter St. Louis will begin offering a version of DVR that delivers all the benefits of Digital Video Recording, now supporting two rooms! It’s even better than having two DVR devices, because all your recorded programs can be accessed from either room.

Does anyone know offhand if I could watch two different channels at the same time on two TVs using the Moxi mate?

In a completely irrelevant, but frustrating, note, I just paid $2.99/gallon for gas.

I just contacted a CSR from Charter. He said that it would be about $10 more per month and that they won't get any boxes until next week.


All that waiting and hoping that this new moxi box was gonna be a good fix to the small hard drive problem and charter has to make it suck by charging so much. WAKE UP CHARTER AND SELL THE NEW BOX BY ITSELF. I know Sales reps are still new at this stuff, so if anyone hears anything different price wise, or a way of getting the box without the Mate please let us all know. 10$ is not what i call a 'few dollars more'

Phatty

The cost is only a few dollars more per month than the one-room DVR solution, and a $6.99 savings per month over having two DVR receivers.


Mark

I currently pay $9.99 to have Moxi vs. the normal non-dvr HD box. Therefore, based on the above quote, Moxi with the Moxi mate should be ($9.99x2)-$6.99= $12.99 or $3 more. Can't say I'm shocked that the preliminary "CSR" pricing doesn't match this. :rolleyes:

Which network stations are O&O in St. Louis area?

Which network stations are O&O in St. Louis area?

Only KTVI 2 which is owned by Fox. KMOV 4 is owned by Belo. KSDK is owned by Gannett. KDNL 30 is owned by the evil bastards at Sinclair. :mad: :mad:

Which network stations are O&O in St. Louis area?

Only KTVI, channel 2 (owned by Fox).

Has anyone had any experience getting waivers from any of these networks? Any tips?!? Thanks in advance.....

........On another note, has anyone obtained a list or can confirm which shows KSDK is doing in DD 5.1 in primetime? Law & Order: Special Victims Unit was in DD 3.0 last night, and it wrecks havoc with my surround sound. :( I am tempted to e-mail the station to see if they can give me any additional info. Hope everyone found the above information useful!

M4X

Good luck! KSDK seems unable to get DD correct. Perhaps it's the network. Just watch Leno. They transmit the DD 5.1 pilot but only send L + R stereo info. As a result, the center channel along with the rears go completely dead......except for the local, non-DD 5.1, non HD commerecial cut-ins. Really distracting and amateurish, IMHO.

They tried to "force" a Pro-Logic workaround a few month back, that I thought sounded just fine. But apparently, other viewers called in to complain. So they reverted back to the hole-in-the-front solution.

Until they get it straight, my recommendation is to defeat DD5.1 and go with ProLogic. It simply sounds much better.

First post in september...oh yeah....

Is the Governor's cup going to be in HD? Anyone have any ideas about this?

thanks.

Not sure if this was posted already, but I saw on KSDK last night that "Weather Plus" has been added to Charter, as of today. I don't have Charter, but I think they said channel 127.

Good luck! KSDK seems unable to get DD correct. Perhaps it's the network. Just watch Leno. They transmit the DD 5.1 pilot but only send L + R stereo info. As a result, the center channel along with the rears go completely dead......except for the local, non-DD 5.1, non HD commerecial cut-ins. Really distracting and amateurish, IMHO.

They tried to "force" a Pro-Logic workaround a few month back, that I thought sounded just fine. But apparently, other viewers called in to complain. So they reverted back to the hole-in-the-front solution.

Until they get it straight, my recommendation is to defeat DD5.1 and go with ProLogic. It simply sounds much better.

Thanks for the info moman, I appreciate it. :)

First post in september...oh yeah....

Is the Governor's cup going to be in HD? Anyone have any ideas about this?

thanks.

No. Just a local SD production from KTVI.

No big deal: last games of the pre-season always have the scrubs in there. It will be meaningless. (and I'm going to the game)

Does anyone know offhand if I could watch two different channels at the same time on two TVs using the Moxi mate?

The short answer is yes. Lots of discussion on this over on the Moxi thread. The key thing to remember is that the Moxi-mate does not have a tuner, so you are still limited to tuning in a maximum of two channels at any one time. They could be both on one TV (i.e. watch one show live and record a different show) or they could be split between the two TVs (i.e. watch HBO in one room and watch Nick in another room).

CAN DO:
Watch one channel live in one room, watch a different channel live in the other room.
Watch a recorded show in one room, watch a different recorded show in the other room.
Watch one channel live in one room, record a channel in the same room, watch a previously recorded show in the other room.


CAN'T DO:
Watch one channel live in one room, record a channel in the same room, watch a different channel live in the other room.


There are probably other variations, and I think the built in DVD player can be used in either room at any time, but you get the gist.

I thought the new moxi box had more than the 2 tuners. Is this not the case?

I thought the new moxi box had more than the 2 tuners. Is this not the case?

Definitely not the case on the new box with the Moxi mate. I believe they've got another multi-tuner device in development, but its certainly not out yet.

Existing Moxi is model BMC-9012 (1 room, 2 tuners)

New Moxi w/Mate is model BMC-9022 (2 room, 2 tuners)

CAN'T DO:
Watch one channel live in one room, record a channel in the same room, watch a different channel live in the other room.


There are probably other variations, and I think the built in DVD player can be used in either room at any time, but you get the gist.

One caveat mentioned on the Moxi board: The small MoxiMate allows passthrough of the analog signal when turned off, which allows that tv to watch analog cable while the main box records and shows a show on another channel.

I've received that response numerous times--its an automatic response.

Hope their still on track for Discovery HD and PBS HD on 9/15.


Wish they would finish the all digital service too--the lower numbers. If we can't have ABC HD, at least maybe we can get it in digital format, rather than analog.


I bought an HD set about six months ago. I haven't been and do not intend on watching ABC until it goes HD. I even plan on continuing my protest during football season.

I bought an HD set about six months ago. I haven't been and do not intend on watching ABC until it goes HD. I even plan on continuing my protest during football season.
ABC is HD in st louis, just not on charter.
I assume you know this, but I wanted to make sure.
Dug

ABC is HD in st louis, just not on charter.
I assume you know this, but I wanted to make sure.
Dug

That's a good point.

I think it's also worth pointing out that this isn't primarily the fault of KDNL, either. It's the corporate policy of Sinclair, the company that ultimately owns KDNL, to (over)charge for HD station carriage on cable networks.

Maybe I'm guilty of being an apologist for KDNL on this, but I guess that's partly because of the fact that Jim, their chief engineer, participates here and has been an enthusiastic supporter of HD from the earliest days.

But I understand that it sucks if you have to stick with Charter and as a result can't see ABC HD programming.

Perhaps this has been addressed here previously, but what's with the varying sound levels on Charter Cable? One channel is way too loud and the next you can barely hear.

Can anything be done to address this problem? I can't get my Moxi to control my
TV (I've tried all the codes and the 9910 code), so I'm always looking for the TV remote to regulate the sound.

tell me your not listening to the TV speakers

Doug,

Need a little help with burn in....

My kids have been watching alot of Disney channel. Now I have the "ears" burned into the lower left corner of my TV. Is there anything that can be done to get rid of them?

Tim

Perhaps this has been addressed here previously, but what's with the varying sound levels on Charter Cable? One channel is way too loud and the next you can barely hear.

Can anything be done to address this problem? I can't get my Moxi to control my
TV (I've tried all the codes and the 9910 code), so I'm always looking for the TV remote to regulate the sound.

The digital channels have a much lower volume level than the analog channels. It's a pain but will go away whenever the rest of the channels get upgraded to digital.

Just thought I'd let you guys know that my Charter rep just called and the Moxi with the moxi mate boxes are in! I'm scheduled for setup next Friday.

It's going to end up costing me about $5 more/month than the original Moxi box, but the added capacity will be worth it.

It is official!!! I just had the Moxi 9022 installed with the mate, although the tech couldn't figure out how to get the DVD player to work.

Doug,
Thanks for backing up KDNL! FYI, we have a deal with Comcast for HD....in fact I've been working on getting an HD signal to the Flnt headend this week. However, I can't say when the corporate office will have a deal with Charter.
Jim

Doug,

Need a little help with burn in....

My kids have been watching alot of Disney channel. Now I have the "ears" burned into the lower left corner of my TV. Is there anything that can be done to get rid of them?

Tim

You might try an adoption agency.

If that fails, I would run a white screen until it clears up.

Sue Disney for a new TV.

Plenty of industry knowledge about the risk of burn-in and networks know that the static images like bugs can be the culprit. That seems like willful negligence to me.

If you win, bugs will be gone and 155,000 AVS Forum members will be in your debt. :)

Doug,
Thanks for backing up KDNL! FYI, we have a deal with Comcast for HD....in fact I've been working on getting an HD signal to the Flnt headend this week. However, I can't say when the corporate office will have a deal with Charter.
Jim


Jim, any update on DD5.1?

Thanks,

Mike

Tim,

There's not really a lot you can do to eliminate the burn-in. The only certain way of reversing the effect is to create a reverse graphic that has everything in white, apart from the area where the ears in the logo would normally be -- you'd want that area to be black. You'd then want to run that screen at regular contrast whenever you weren't using the TV. Over time (months) the other areas would catch up with the burn-in area.

The problem, obviously, is creating a graphic as described, and then finding a way to display it. And, of course, you'd probably need to do a lot of trial and error to get everything lined up to match.

As for CPanther's suggestion, it really shouldn't come to lawsuits to eliminate this practice, but then again, I don't see inertia-addled broadcasters reversing course of their own volition. That said, this is probably going to be almost entirely a non-issue in another 5 years. I've actually read a recent survey that finds even plasma technology has eliminated the burn-in risk with the latest models. I'm skeptical until I see this myself, but assuming for a moment that it's true, that would mean the only sets with logo burn-in risk would be CRTs -- and in 5 years you'll have to make a real effort to buy a CRT.

Not sure what the story will be on this score with other round-the-corner technologies, such as Toshiba's SED (http://tv.about.com/b/a/174056.htm).

Does burn in occur on rear projection crt hdtv's?

Yes it can!!

Doug,

Need a little help with burn in....

My kids have been watching alot of Disney channel. Now I have the "ears" burned into the lower left corner of my TV. Is there anything that can be done to get rid of them?

Tim

You could put them up for adoption, so they can burn someone elses TV. :D

You could put them up for adoption, so they can burn someone elses TV. :D

Whoops, I see StockInv beat me to it. Great minds think alike.

Scott

I posted awhile back when I first got my DISH 942 dvr that I didn't see any difference between the quality of the component and hdmi outputs. I have since watched only component on this device. However, last night my curiousity urged me to take a look at hdmi again, which I view through an hdmi to dvi adapter. I couldn't get a digital signal at all no matter what I tried, and called for technical assistance. Eventually, I tried switching the 942's output resolution from 1080i to 720p, and that somehow kicked on hdmi. Why, I don't know. Even when I switched back to 1080i, I still had a digital signal this time. After all this, I can now actually see an increase in clarity, resolution and color fidelity through hdmi even though component looks quite good. I will admit to the fact that the dvi input on my Optoma H31 pj seems to be better calibrated than the component input, as other users have noted.

I have a buddy who has a neat setup that use an htpc that records OTA hd through a MyHD card, and he archives them to dvd at full resolution, getting only 30 minutes per disc. He likes to brag about this, and it is cool. Tonight I took over a couple of discs Bob made for me using this reverse telecine process(or something like that) he found. As I said before, these are regular dvds recorded at 480p complete with the DD 5.1 soundtracks, with the same 2 hour capacity we all know and love. The discs I took over had episodes of The Inside and CSI:Vegas, recorded from hd broadcasts. My buddy couldn't really tell the difference between my discs and his nifty half-hour "hd dvds". Cool, huh?? Who's got the coolest toys now?? Who's your daddy, who's your daddy?? Kiddie mode off...

I have a buddy who has a neat setup that use an htpc that records OTA hd through a MyHD card, and he archives them to dvd at full resolution, getting only 30 minutes per disc. He likes to brag about this, and it is cool. Tonight I took over a couple of discs Bob made for me using this reverse telecine process(or something like that) he found. As I said before, these are regular dvds recorded at 480p complete with the DD 5.1 soundtracks, with the same 2 hour capacity we all know and love. The discs I took over had episodes of The Inside and CSI:Vegas, recorded from hd broadcasts. My buddy couldn't really tell the difference between my discs and his nifty half-hour "hd dvds". Cool, huh?? Who's got the coolest toys now?? Who's your daddy, who's your daddy?? Kiddie mode off...

Always glad to help out a new smart*ss in training. :D

Did KPLR change their plans for this weekends games. I thought they were in HD.

tommeyj,

It does look that way. The games tonight and Sunday were on the original HD schedule for KPLR but it appears that's not happening -- at least not tonight.

NO HD on 11.1 for the Cardinal's game.........oh the screen just went blank for 5 seconds, but no HD when it came back. And the sound when the bat strikes the ball, sounds like a catcher's mitt. That is really strange. Not to mention that when the pitch is caught by the catcher, you hear it being caught before you see it go in the glove.

Very dissapointing broadcast, given that it was scheduled to be HD for months.

Interesting that during the fourth inning, the announcers talked about American being the sponsor of today's HD broadcast.

I'm surprised that the booth wouldn't be aware of the fact that we're not getting HD here.

Strange...

They finally got the HD working in the top of the 7th.

Craiger01,

Yes, burn-in can occur on CRT-based RPTVs (and FPTVS) -- in fact, they are somewhat more susceptible than direct-view CRTs due to the different types of CRTs used in projection televisions.

That said, CRT burn-in can be prevented with a little effort and diligence. The first and most important thing is to turn down the contrast and then adjust brightness (black level) to match the lowered peak light level. Virtually all CRT-based TVs come from the factory with contrast at the max and this is the quickest route to burn-in. Running a CRT set for even a short period of time with contrast in torch mode can also damage the power supply and generally shorten the operating life of the set.

Setting contrast and brightness at the optimal levels is one of the big benefits of having your TV professionally calibrated, but it's also something that shouldn't be beyond the average user with a test disc such as AVIA Guide to Home Theater or Digital Video Essentials (or even, the original Video Essentials).

What causes burn-in is the overexposure of certain areas of the phosphors that coat the inside surface of the CRT "tube." The most common type of burn-in I've seen are from the "black bars" that appear on the sides of traditional 4x3 programming on a widescreen television. This is why many set-top boxes and displays provide an option of side bars that default to gray, with some even allowing the level of gray to be adjusted up or down. The idea behind the gray bars is pretty simple, as they "light up" what would otherwise be unused phosphors when viewing 4x3 material and this results in more even phosphor wear. Of course, sometimes you don't have the option of displaying gray bars, such as when local stations send out their 4x3 programming on their digital channels in pillar box mode. But this shouldn't be a major risk, so long as you have contrast set at a reasonable level and 4x3 programming with side bars doesn't make up the majority of your viewing.

It's also worth noting that the burn-in risk is at its highest when a CRT projection TV is brand new, so it's a particularly good idea to try to avoid black bars during the first 6 months or so of use. Once the phosphors have gotten an initial level of uniform wear, it will be more difficult for the effects of black bars to show up (though not impossible).

Apart from black bars, the next biggest risk for burn-in are the static graphical elements that some stations use, such as the CNN or CNBC "crawlers" or the side/bottom banners that are common on some of the home shopping channels. I've seen at least a half dozen sets that have experienced varying levels of damage from the home shopping banners. The crawlers are a lower risk, since a significant part of the crawler screen is changing as text moves from left to right or top to bottom, but when the background colors of the crawler are fixed and unchanging, there is a risk of one or more CRTs becoming overexposed as a result of that color remaining on screen in certain areas for a prolonged period.

Channel bugs are also a risk, but this varies a lot according to how opaque/translucent the logo is and how much time it appears onscreen. I don't ever watch the Disney channels, but I checked them to see what's going on there, Initially the logo didn't appear on either Disney channel, which is helpful, but part way into the programs they appeared and remained onscreen. They ARE large and relatively opaque. Still, unless a TV was permanently switched onto this channel, I'm doubtful burn-in would occur if contrast/brightness was set properly.

Of course, black bars, crawlers and channel bugs aren't the only risks for burn-in. It's fairly common to see burn-in on showroom floors as a result of a DVD fininshing and returning to the menu screen and remaining there for hours on end. In short, any unchanging picture element creates a burn-in risk.

As noted earlier, burn-in risk is non-existent on LCD, DLP and LCOS sets. Plasma televisions, despite what you might be told at Circuit City or Best Buy, also create the picture as a result of exciting a phosphor coating on the inside surface of the panel. This coating is generally thinner than the phosphors on CRT sets, and the "fixed pixels" are effectively segregated from each other, which can result in more sustained heat build-up than what happens with a CRT television.

Plasma manufacturers are now claiming that burn-in risk is a non-event, but as I mentioned earlier I'm skeptical until I see this for myself. The study methodology was to leave a DVD menu screen on a plasma set over a weekend. At the end of the weekend, burn-in was clearly seen. But the study claimed by that using the set with non-static images for another couple of days caused the burn-in to completely disappear. Something about that doesn't sound quite right.

While CRTs have a burn-in risk, it's not necessarily a reason to avoid purchasing televisions based on this technology. The fact is, they are extremely well-priced at the moment and still have significant picture quality advantages over most digital displays.

But clearly, CRTs are making up a smaller and smaller part of the products produced by consumer electronics manufacturers and there's no doubt this trend will accelerate over the next few years. Before long, CRT-based displays will demand a premium price and will be more and more a marginal market, similar I think to what we see today for tube-based audio gear.

Thanks for the Info, DroptheRemote. Will they will allways make CRT Rear Projection HDTV's? I like those new Sony 51" or 57" CRT Rear Projection HDTV's, KDP-51WS655, KDP-57WS655. The picture and sound was great from the built in speakers they have a 40 watt built in speaker system. Or I thought about waiting until the price dropped on the DLP's or LCD's. I can't afford an HDTV right now so I guess It wont matter about those Sony models that I like they'll probably have newer models of those.

I think it's safe to say that CRT RPTVs will be available for at least a couple more years. After that, it's hard to say what might happen.

If all the mainstream manufacturers decide to stop producing CRT RPTVs, I think it's likely that a boutique manufacturer (or two) would step in to fill the void. If a boutique market does develop, count on prices to be considerably higher than for comparable digital sets. But I think it would be reasonable to expect a greater emphasis on both out-of-the-box and potential picture quality, because these sets would be built for and marketed to a niche market where picture quality is a bigger deal than saving a few bucks.

As for Sony, if I had to pick one manufactuer, I figure them to be the next player to exit the CRT market. They reportedly have completely ceased all CRT manufacturing in Japan. They are also clearly focusing future efforts on LCD and their version of LCoS, SXRD. Maybe they'll continue to dabble in the direct view market, but I'm very doubtful they will be producing CRT RPTVs very much longer.

FWIW, Pioneer was the first company to completely exit the CRT market, roughly 2 model years ago -- they now exclusively sell plasmas (and it's worth noting that they were the underwriters of the plasma study I referenced earlier).

And a few years ago, Mitsubishi offered something like a half dozen different CRT RPTV models, in a wide range of sizes. This year, Mits is limiting its CRT offering to just two or three models, and size options are more restricted. I think Mits is a good barometer for this market, as they were the market leader until DLP and LCD RPTV sets came along a couple years ago, and their slow shift to those technologies has them playing catch up now.

Thanks for the info. Would it be good if I could get one of those Sony's I listed if they were still around at time and I could afford to get one? Or just wait until the DLP or LCD prices dropped to same price those Sony rear projections? Will Sony do DLP Rear Projection like Mitisubishi? I was wondering if they would ever come out with a DLP or LCD that had a Two-Way cable card reader and a DVR built into them but I'll bet those sets would cost alot. I hope that isn't too many questions.

Doug, did you ever find out any more info on those video cards for the HTPC?

I have a 10% off Best Buy coupon for Labor Day weekend I'd like to use.

Winston,

I'm trying to talk with the person responsible for running the tests on the ATI cards at ISF Labs.

At this point, I think your best bet would be to get one of the ATI cards listed in the earlier link I provided. That would allow you to take advantage of the sale prices, and then return it if it turns out not to be suitable.

I'll let you know if/when I hear more.

Craig,

Sony is highly unlikely to produce ANY DLP sets. I don't know all the background on this, but my understanding is that the company looked into DLP at one point and decided (among other factors) that they weren't comfortable adopting a technology where there would only be a single supplier. As you probably know, DLP is an exclusive Texas Instruments technology, while LCoS, LCD, plasma, etc. are built by many different manufacturers.

Two-way cable card technology is in the works, but I'm not sure where that stands just at the moment. But eventually it will be available, I'm sure.

Ditto the same for built-in DVRs, though to be honest I think these sorts of multi-function products are an extremely bad idea, because of the lack of flexibility, the fact that they will increase the service risk, and because any needed repairs are going to be a much bigger hassle than they should be. You're much, much better off with an outboard DVR, whether it's from Charter, a satellite provider or (eventually) one you purchase yourself.

When you're ready to buy, it's hard to say what the best route will be. Ultimately this is going to be determined by your priorities and factors such as cost, size/weight, picture quality, etc. IMO, a Sony RPTV CRT would be a winner from a picture quality standpoint today, but even that could change in a year or two.

I also would recommend against buying any used television, especially a CRT. The risk involved in buying a used TV or display floor model is far too high, regardless of how much money you might think you're saving. When you see the open-box CRTs on the display floor, keep walking...

I would never buy a used set. I thought about that, what happens if the internal DVR breaks? Just two more questions. I guess cable and sattelite companies will allways make HD DVR's? Will they ever come out with a two cable cable card with a HD DVR built into the card that would replace the set-top box? Thanks for all the other info.

Doug, thanks for the advice -- again =]

I'm torn between two cards.. the ATI Radeon X800XL which is $300, has 256mb of ram, is PCI express x16, and has both component and DVI out.

The other one I'm looking at is the Radeon X700 Pro. Its 2565MB, PCI x16, and has component out.

I guess what I need to decide is whether or not DVI out is important to me. Wouldn't a PC to HDTV monitor connection be better between component? After all, my Sony HDTV does NOT have a DVI connector, only component and HDMI. Thus, if I wanted to connect my PC to my HDTV monitor w/ DVI, I'd have to have a DVI to HDMTI converter.

Doesn't component just make more sense (and better quality?)

Craiger,

A DVR on a CableCard? I suppose it would be possible at some point, but don't really see what it would accomplish, as the Card would have to come from your local cable company anyway, at which point it would be a lot simpler (and more robust) to just supply a standard DVR box.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Craiger,

A DVR on a CableCard? I suppose it would be possible at some point, but don't really see what it would accomplish, as the Card would have to come from your local cable company anyway, at which point it would be a lot simpler (and more robust) to just supply a standard DVR box.

Maybe I'm missing something?

I was just guessing about that because what would be the point in having a two way cable card in an HDTV if you have to have a HD DVR set top anway? I guess alot of people wouldn't care about recording shows and movies? Unless that's why you would have a DVR built into the HDTV then a two-way cable card would be good in an HDTV. I thought it would be a cool device for some electronics person to think up. :) Thanks again for the previous info.

Winston,

Theoretically DVI/HDMI should be a better quality connection than component, all other things being equal.

Of course, it's effectively a moot point if your Sony is a CRT television, as the digital RGB datastream will have to be converted to analog RGB at some point anyway. Unfortunately many CRT manufacturers do an interim conversion from digital RGB to analog component and then to analog RGB -- no doubt in the quest to save some time and development dollars.

On a digital display, DVI/HDMI should be the better way to go. There's no downside in the HDMI-to-DVI adapter -- from a video standpoint this is just an adapter plug.

But even on a truly digital display, the benefits of DVI/HDMI can be elusive or even non-existent, and the execution of HDMI or DVI by manufacturers remains somewhat less than stellar. I continue to see incompatibilities between different types of devices, such as earlier this week where a customer's Sony DVD player connected to an LG LCD panel cut off 25% of the picture on the right side, leaving a trail of video noise and garbage. This was made worse by the fact that the DVD player didn't provide any picture positioning controls, and while they were shown on the LCD panel, they were "grayed out" (inaccessible) for the DVI connection. As a result, the only way around this was to use the DVI-PC setting, which isn't optimal from a picture quality standpoint. Fortunately, my customer primarily uses the LCD to watch HDTV, but for most consumers this would be more serious.

Also, I've recently learned that it appears that some popular non-CRT digital televisions are immediately converting DVI/HDMI to analog component video inside the set, which pretty much quashes any potential for picture quality benefits. If this is confirmed, it's not only a case of bad engineering, but it would seem there's also a "truth in advertising" issue to boot.

Craig,

The two-way CableCard would allow advanced features such as PPV, VOD, etc.

I'm not a cable customer these days, so my practical experience with this stuff is minimal, but my understanding is that current generation cable cards do no more than manage your service entitlements for the basic cable services. Anything of an interactive nature requires the two-way card version.

I have an install date set for the Moxi mate on Friday the 16th. Can someone who has it installed already verify if the DVI port is active?

I have an install date set for the Moxi mate on Friday the 16th. Can someone who has it installed already verify if the DVI port is active?

I don't have mine installed yet either, but I've asked the question and the answer is no. Moxiguy from the Moxi forum here has said that it will be enabled eventually, but no date has been set for that.

A question I haven't asked yet is, does the moxi unit come with component cables or will I need to get some? My E* 811 did come with cables.

The initial installs of the Moxi boxes did, but Charter charged something like $20 for them. I didn't need them so I wasn't charged. I can't really speak of the quality of them, but coming from Charter I'd say you're probably better off getting a set from a store.

When I had my first High Def box installed Charter used very good component cables. No Charge.

I will get the Moxi Mate installed friday the 9th for an additional cost of $7-8 (taxes make an exact cost hard to predict) more than the Moxi alone. At first she mentioned that there was going to be an install charge and I politely told her that I had to show the dufus how to install the Moxi and that I was not about to pay for an install. She qucikly said OK we'll deduct that charge.

Anybody have any comments about how the install went and subsequent useage? Sure will like the additional storage with the new season about to begin.

KPLR/Charter finally got the Cardinals game in High Def yesterday but damn the sound was loooooooow on HD and VERY HIGH during the non-HD commercials. How annoying!!!!!

KPLR/Charter finally got the Cardinals game in High Def yesterday but damn the sound was loooooooow on HD and VERY HIGH during the non-HD commercials. How annoying!!!!!

This also occurs with national WB programming like Smallville and Reba. The commercial breaks have me lunging for the mute button.

But to put it into perspective, at least when the 5.1 indicators are on, the sound is actually 5.1, unlike a certain other station around here.

What station is that?

The station with the 2-channel sound while the 5.1 indicators are on is KSDK.

While watching Jay Leno, your receiver will indicate the program is encoded with 5.1 channel Dolby Digital, but you'll only hear sound from your left and right front speakers. Center and rears will be completely silent. Reeeeeeally annoying.

KMOV had a similar problem a few years ago that drove me nuts while trying to watch CSI, though KMOV eventually fixed it.

My e-mails on the subject to the KSDK addresses that Doug posted at the beginning of this thread have gone unanswered.

Doug,
Thanks for backing up KDNL! FYI, we have a deal with Comcast for HD....in fact I've been working on getting an HD signal to the Flnt headend this week. However, I can't say when the corporate office will have a deal with Charter.
Jim

WRacer what does this deal with Comcast actually mean for us viewers more HD shows or what? Thanks.

The Comcast cable deal has no meaning for us in St. Louis. The point is that Sinclair has resolved the HD carry issue in other markets and I would assume eventually will with Charter. In the mean time it free with an antenna.
Jim

WRacer: How's DD 5.1 coming along at 30-1? I haven't been watching too much TV these past summer months and I hope this is all straightened out in time for the new fall shows.

I saw the following in the current edition of The Bridge newsletter and thought it was right on target:

"As a pal likes to point out, no one pulls you aside at a cocktail party to say how much they love their cable or phone company. The battle for the living room may boil down to telco vs. cable, but don't expect either to win consumers' hearts. This is a fight to see who is least despised."

Updated HDTV Bar/Restaurant Sightings: Early September
St. Louis Sports Bars and HDTV

Schneithorsts (Ladue): the best in St. Louis when it comes to knowing about their HDTVs and showing HD. One HD projector on the upstairs outdoor patio. Four HDTVs in the downstairs bar with a large (over 60”) plasma over the fireplace. Able to show HD from OTA and DirecTV. Bartenders know what they are doing and seem to consistently know when HD programming is on.

Fox and Hounds (Chesterfield Valley): this new place has four rear projection LCD HDTVs mounted above the main bar. However it does not look like they can show HD since the DirecTV boxes are all standard def. Not sure about their OTA capabilities. Bartenders seem clueless.

Flannery’s: (Downtown on Washington Ave.) this newer place has three Panasonic plasma EDTVs and two rear projection LCD HDTVs. However it does not look like they can show HD since the DirecTV boxes are all standard def. Not sure about their OTA capabilities.

Sundeckers: (Laclede’s Landing) has one approximately 50” plasma mounted on the wall left of the bar. Uses Charter cable for their source since the MLK bridge blocks their south view, thus not allowing use of Dish or DirecTV. Need to upgrade their Charter box to HD capable. Bartenders and managers there always seem grumpy so I’ve never approached them.

Stratford Inn: (Fenton) has two large rear projection CRT Mitsubishis opposite the bar. Can see they’ve mounted a triple LNB DirecTV dish outside but there are no HD capable boxes inside. Bartenders are clueless about HD.

Webers Front Row: (Webster Groves) two rear projection CRT HDTVs in their family friendly non-smoking room. However all their DirecTV equipment is standard-def. Have never talked to bartender or manager about getting HD.

Buffalo Wild Wings: (Creve Coeur and South County Mall) these newer stores have their projector screens sized to 16x9 and look to have DLP capable projectors. However their equipment seems to be DirecTV standard def only. According to manager the company has one guy who travels around and sets their A/V equipment up.

Frankie G’s: (Oakville) one rear projection CRT HDTV behind the bar. Have seen HDTV from ESPN-HD using DirecTV there. Not sure about their OTA capabilities.

St. Louis Sports Zone: (Shrewsbury) have a number of rear projection and plasma HDTVs in their various rooms. However they refuse to show HDTV because of the time delay difference between HD and the SD sets. According to the manager they have the equipment, but the delay issue is too big a problem.

Fortels Pizza Den: (Affton) once large rear proection CRT HDTV in the main dining area. Using Charter cable running directly into the TV all I’ve seen there is SD.

J. Bucks: (West County Mall) two 42" plasma HDTVs over the bar that seem stuck on SD. Seem to only have DirecTV SD equipment.

SubZero: (Central West End) Not a sports bar unless you drink martinis and eat sushi while watching sports. One 42" LCD HDTV above the bar. Have seen both OTA HDTV (Olympics last summer) and ESPN-HD using DirecTV.

Fitz's: (U. City Loop) One 52" Mitsubishi DLP HDTV upstairs in bar area with a DirecTV HD box connected in public view. However there is nothing connected to the OTA antenna input. Sent email to manager 8/1/05.

Applebees Clayton/Big Bend (Richmond Heights): One 36" Panasonic 16:9 CRT tube TV has been installed. Showing stretched ESPN when I visited.

NEW:
Fast Eddies (Alton): had replaced most of the old TVs with 5 42" HD plasmas. One by front bar, one in front side room, two in main lower dining area and one behind the rear bar. All were showing SD ESPN or the NASCAR race from NBC in SD. Uses Charter cable as signal source. Has two SD cable boxes behind front counter combined with a bunch of Radio Shack style A/B switches.

Tin Can Tavern (South City): one 42" HD plasma in upper dining area. Using DirecTV as their signal source. Showing ESPN SD when in.

Mike Duffy's (Richmond Heights): two DLP HDTVs in the dining area. Charter cable for signal source, they have HD boxes and know how to use them. Only bummer is they're closed on Sundays: even during football season.

Lafayette's (Soulard): in the former location of Lil' Nikkis. Lil Nikki's used to have an RCA rear projection CRT HDTV in the main dining area. That TV has been replaced by an old Mitsubishi SD set.

Mike Duffy's (Richmond Heights): still have to stop in. But according to a PM they have two DLPs in the dining area. Not sure on signal source and their HD capabilities. Only bummer is they're closed on Sundays: even during football season.



I'll chime in since I'm the one who sent the PM. The signal source is Charter Cable, and they clearly have the Motorola 5100 (or 6200) HD cable boxes. Last time I was in (about a month ago) they had ESPN-HD showing.

I'll chime in since I'm the one who sent the PM. The signal source is Charter Cable, and they clearly have the Motorola 5100 (or 6200) HD cable boxes. Last time I was in (about a month ago) they had ESPN-HD showing.

Thanks, I'll edit the post.

Very basic PR statement from Charter about the new HD channels:
St. Louis Business Journal - 9:13 AM CDT Tuesday
Charter adds new channels to HDTV lineup
Charter Communications Inc. is adding three new channels to its high-definition television offerings, bringing the total to 12.

The new networks include KETC HD, the local affiliate of the Public Broadcasting Service, which will include programming not currently available on the standard broadcast channel.

The other new channels include Discovery HD Theater and Cinemax HD.

St. Louis-based Charter Communications Inc. (Nasdaq: CHTR) is the nation's third-largest cable television provider, and also provides digital video programming and high-speed Internet access.



BTW: I wonder if Charter will ever get around to the 2nd stage of the digital conversion?

Don't count on it anytime soon.

I was interested in the postings about DVI.

As I had stated earlier was going to happen, Charter came out to my house and gave me a box with a working DVI port. On my Panasonic LCD projection, I couldn't see the difference at all between the DVI picture and the component picture, whether watching SD or HD programming.

Kind of a disappointment, since I sat around waiting for them to come.

DirecTV Announces Free MPEG-4 HDTV Upgrade

The following story appeared as a special bulletin via the TVPredictions.com newsletter:
_____________________________________________

DIRECTV revealed tonight that it will offer a free system upgrade for High-Definition TV owners so they can get local high-def channels later this year.

DIRECTV is expected to begin offering local HD in 12 markets by year's end. However, the channels will only be available on new DIRECTV MPEG-4 receivers and dishes, which have yet to go on sale.

Until now, it was uncertain if current HDTV owners would have to pay up to $300 to buy a new receiver to get the local high-def signals.

However, Robert Mercer, a DIRECTV spokesman, told TVPredictions.com Tuesday night that current HDTV owners would be offered a free upgrade. An estimated 600,000 DIRECTV subscribers have high-def sets.

Mercer said the satcaster did not have further details, such as when the upgrade would be available or if current owners would be required to make a one or two year commitment to a DIRECTV programming package. However, Mercer said the upgrade would first be offered to HDTV owners in the 12 markets where local HD will be launched later this year.

In the past, DIRECTV has made the programming commitment a requirement for system upgrades.

DIRECTV is launching four new satellites over the next two years that will enable it to provide local channels in high-def for the first time. Local HD is expected to be launched in one test city in October with the remaining 11 cities to roll out by year's end.
_____________________________________________

For the complete story at TVPredictions.com, click here. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/freehdtv090605.html)

Very basic PR statement from Charter about the new HD channels:


BTW: I wonder if Charter will ever get around to the 2nd stage of the digital conversion?

When I was talking Charter the other day about getting the Moxi-Mate I asked when she thought they would complete the conversion to all digital. She replied "I thought it was finished" hmmmmmmmm. Arrrrggggggggg

Lots of real good college football on ABC. If we Charter subscribers can't have the HD feed, sure wish we could at least get a true digital feed. Whats the delay, anyone know?

Can't wait for Discovery HD to start.

Lots of real good college football on ABC. If we Charter subscribers can't have the HD feed, sure wish we could at least get a true digital feed. Whats the delay, anyone know?

Can't wait for Discovery HD to start.


Wait till you get a load of Monster Garage and Orange County Choppers. The custom paint jobs on the bikes look amazing.

I just can't wait to finally watch sharks and exploding volcanoes on Discovery HD Theater!

I just pulled the trigger on my first big screen (yeah, I am in the dark ages) - a 61" InFocus DLP HDTV from woot.com - and I am curious about others' experience with getting local digital over antenna. We're in a hilly section of Wildwood out by Hwy 109 south of the Chesterfield airport and I have got to believe that it might be tough to get a signal.

Do I just go with Charter or is it worth the effort of trying to mount an antenna? Has anyone tried on internal antenna with luck from a relatively remote site like mine?

Congatulations on your first big screen. I looked up the tv on woot.com and it is impressive looking. I had no idea that they made any thin DLPs.

With regards to the programming, I would try the OTA first. You have nothing to lose. Pick up a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. If that doesn't work well you can always go with Charter. I do both simply because Charter does not have ABC yet and I have to watch Monday Night Football in Hi Def.

Guy I work with just bought a VOOM receiver off EBay for around $30. He uses that with an antenna and gets OTA signals. A low-cost option for anyone who doesn't yet have an OTA receiver...

-Hanjke

I thought that since the InFocus has a built-in Hi-Def tuner I should try to use an antenna before paying extra to Charter.

What's a Voom receiver? Isn't Voom that HiDef company Mark Cuban set up? How does he make money if we can grab his signal with a cheap receiver? Is there a subscription fee? (Can you tell I'm new? LOL)

When I first got my HD set over 3 years ago I tried the Zenith antenna and didn't have great luck with it. Also tried an amplified antenna from Best Buy (don't remember the brand) and didn't have great luck with that either. I called A-1 Antenna and thjey did a complete setup for me for $200, included antenna and running all the cables. They had one guy on the roof talking on a radio to a guy watching the set in the basement to get the antenna pointed correctly. Everything worked here great for a couple of weeks then I lost a couple of channels. I called them and they came back and moved the antenna to a better location and did the whole directional tuning again. Overall a great job and well worth the $200 it cost.

I use Charter HD for most of my local viewing in HD, but MNF is on ABC and we're all aware of the issue there. Having the built-in tuner on my HD set is well worth it, so is having the antenna professionally installed.

Hope this helps.
darren

J -

If your in wildwood, your very close to an antenna maker that is getting rave reviews. His website is http://www.antennasdirect.com/ . I use the DB2 in my attic (in Illinois) and it works beautifully. I tried all sort of other antennas from BB and CC, but none compare to the ones from good 'ol Wildwood, MO.

Head to Antenna web http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx to find the type of antenna you need for your location. Use the maps in the posts on the first page of this forum to help you point it to the right spot.

IMHO, having the HD pack from Dish is great, but all the major stuff I watch is over the air. Welcome to the HD world...There is no escape. (Cue evil laugh....)

What's a Voom receiver? Isn't Voom that HiDef company Mark Cuban set up? How does he make money if we can grab his signal with a cheap receiver? Is there a subscription fee? (Can you tell I'm new? LOL)

A VOOM receiver is what was used for the now defunct VOOM satellite service. (It went out of business a few months ago and now Dishnetwork has some of their channels available.)

What hanjke was referring to was that you could use the VOOM receiver as a low cost way of pulling in OTA digital signals if you didn't already have a built-in digital OTA tuner.

Guy I work with just bought a VOOM receiver off EBay for around $30. He uses that with an antenna and gets OTA signals. A low-cost option for anyone who doesn't yet have an OTA receiver...

-Hanjke

That's a good deal.

I've been bidding on working VOOM boxes for a few weeks with under $50 as my price. No luck. Checking my history every one I've bid on has gone for more than $65 and some even in the $80 to $90 range (with no remote.)

BTW: if bidding on a VOOM box make sure it was activated but not hooked up when the "kill" signal was sent right before they went off the air. Make the seller assure you that the box will work for OTA signals and is not dead. A few I've bid on admitted they were dead while others were not sure. Cover your a**.

Thanks for the excellent responses. Since my new rig has a built-in HiDef tuner I can skip the Voom receiver and focus on just the antenna side of the equation. I am comfortable with standing in the attic with an antenna with my wife on another cell phone in the living room.

I will check out antennas direct. Thanks for the leads!

Wow, the anntenasdirect guy is running his business out of his home! He's just a couple miles from me and I know that neighborhood. Good for him! His website is very professional. Prices look good.

Hey dweebe. Is the info below accurate as well regarding VOOM receivers?

--Copied from an ebay auction--
The PIN number needed to access the set-up menu will be included. Please use caution if you purchase another VOOM receiver on eBay without the PIN number - you will not be able to access the set-up menu to scan the HD OTA local channels and the receiver will be useless.
--end--

Also, how would someone know if their receiver got the "kill" signal?

Hey, Doug, any word on if that DirecTV free upgrade to mpeg4 will include HD TiVos?

Hey dweebe. Is the info below accurate as well regarding VOOM receivers?

--Copied from an ebay auction--
The PIN number needed to access the set-up menu will be included. Please use caution if you purchase another VOOM receiver on eBay without the PIN number - you will not be able to access the set-up menu to scan the HD OTA local channels and the receiver will be useless.
--end--


That sounds like it's true.

Also, how would someone know if their receiver got the "kill" signal?

They should state it in the auction or respond it if you send a question. I only bid on VOOM boxes that clearly state they're still active and receive OTA. If the seller doesn't state that in the auction I send them a question on confirm it's still alive. If they confirm it I'm still cautious.

Winston,

This part of the DirecTV upgrade plan hasn't been revealed yet. But one thing is almost certain and that's the fact that any upgrade plan WILL NOT be for TiVo DVRs. DirecTV will be rolling out its own HD and SD DVRs, built by a sister company, NDS.

It appears that the NDS DVRs are further down the delivery date list than even the first wave of MPEG-4 locals. The last I heard, DirecTV isn't expecting to be able to deliver NDS HD DVRs until the first quarter of 2006.

For now, the HD TiVo is the only option for DirecTV subscribers wanting an HD DVR.

While it's only speculation on my part, I would expect that DirecTV would probably make the same offer for HD DVRs as they look set to make on HD receivers.

Hmm. Thanks for the info.

I've pretty much decided that I'm going to go w/ an HTPC w/ Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition on it. I'll have a regular analog tuner and an HDTV tuner. It should function well as a DVR -- from what I've been reading in the HTPC forum -- and it will also be able to play my music, etc. It seems like a good deal, but I guess you just never know.

If the PC I try and use for this doesn't really work all that well, I'll just give it to my parents.

Winston,

FYI -- I'm still trying to hunt down additional information on the certified Media Center PC video cards from ATI.

But because this week is the CEDIA trade show, the earliest I'm likely to get any feedback will be the middle of next week.

Hmm. Thanks for the info.

I've pretty much decided that I'm going to go w/ an HTPC w/ Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition on it. I'll have a regular analog tuner and an HDTV tuner. It should function well as a DVR -- from what I've been reading in the HTPC forum -- and it will also be able to play my music, etc. It seems like a good deal, but I guess you just never know.

Something else you'll find if you're a music buff...

Streaming Internet radio stations (usually in the form of continuous mp3 streams) can sound at least as good as, often much better than, local FM music stations when they broadcast with a good bitrate. Play some through your HTPC and surround system and enjoy!

Smoothjazz.com is an excellent replacement for the dearly departed jazz station that used to broadcast on 106.5. Sound quality is fabulous. And the only commercials are for CD's from the artists they play.

And the HD tuner card is going to come in really handy this season. There's apparently so much good stuff on Wednesday nights this season, having just two tuners in the HD Tivo won't cut it... the HTPC will record a third HD show at the same time.

Bob, I wish I could do that. I can only record 2 OTAs in hd at once, split between my Dish 942 dvr and my Sammy T165/JVC dvhs deck. For those of you with dvd recorders, you may enjoy the look of the 480i signal from an hd broadcast recorded onto dvd. It looks pretty good, and I have a couple of these, along with a couple of OTA tuners that aren't in use right now. This extends my recording abilities to 4 OTA signals at once, but only 2 are in true hd. I agree that there will be so many new shows in hd that would be good to watch, and one would need more than 2 hd recording devices to keep up. It's actually fun to be able to face that as a problem.

I checked on the KSDK 5.1 problem this week, and found that my older SONY DA50 ES receiver strangely displayed DD 3.0 for programs that should have been 5.1. The front panel graphics showed that signals were being sent to front left, center, and right channels, but I got no center sound at all. Even stranger, I did get sound from my rears, but this may have been generated by the Sony receiver itself and it's at a very low level. I just checked my more updated Sony DA5 ES in the front room, and it's doing the same thing. My receivers falsely indicate that the DD stream is 3.0 for all surround modes, and even if I select the 2 channel mode. Anybody else have a Sony receiver that can confirm this?

Concerning VOOM, wasn't it the Dolan family that was behind it, not HDNet's Mark Cuban? Also, I never used a PIN to access my setup menu. My receiver is still active, as I made sure it was unplugged when VOOM shut down(yes, I tested it). Could it be that a PIN is needed only if you used one while VOOM was active? It's also important to know that VOOM was providing the program guide info for the OTA channels, so if you use the receiver now for OTA, there is no guide info.

Guys, I was holding this news until I got an ok from WRacer. Here it is:

Re: 5.1 sound

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi35
Hi Jim,
Thanks for all the great work you're doing at KDNL, and I'm sure that I speak for all the local AVS forum members by saying that we all really appreciate your input here. Can you give me an idea as to when we might expect t hear DD 5.1 sound on 30-1? I would just love to watch Lost, Alias, and several other shows in 5.1 this season.

Thanks,
Adrian



Thanks for the kind words! I feel bad that I haven't had time to get the 5.1 set up. I'm out of town every week working on getting the last of our stations either on the air or up to full power. The few days I'm in town is crazy with other problems. I was hoping to get it up for MNF, but I need to be here when we make the switch...hope it is this month. Sorry for the dalay.
Jim

End PM

There you have it guys. There is a possibility that we might finally hear 5.1 on 30-1 this month. However, here is a follow up message I just got from him:

Re: 5.1 sound

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep, I hope to get it up this month (5.1 that is)...but I'm only in town about 4 days! BTW, if anyone was missing HD last night, it was ABC...they had a problem on the whole net.
OK to post on forum.
Jim

Well Jedi, when you get around to putting your HTPC together (I know it won't be for a few months), you can include an HD tuner card and get your third OTA source just like I did.

Off topic just a bit: Has anyone here had experience with O'Fallon Electronics doing repair work for them? My $1200 Sony DVP-NS999ES DVD player died a few weeks ago and I've taken it in to them for the repair work (yes, I know I should have asked this beforehand). They told me today that three EPROM chips will need to be replaced at $300 plus the shipping from Sony and plus the labor.

I just now (as in, ten minutes ago) realized that Sony's warranty on this player is for THREE years, not one like I thought when I brought the player in. I dug up the receipt and it indeed does have four months left on its warranty. So I shouldn't have to cough up a dime. HAL LAY LOO YAH!!!!!!!

Now can someone tell me anything about the quality of work O'Fallon Electronics does?

Thanks....

I have been reading the posts on this forum for a couple of months and decided I'd like to join in the HD discussion. I'm a grad student at WashU Med School, and have had my HDTV since Jan. 2004. It's only a Samsung 26" CRT (with a separately bought Samsung HD Tuner), but I had to have an HDTV and it has served me well in the past year and a half. I also have the Charter HD-DVR service with the Moxi box. I had a few observations and queries about HDTV in the St. Louis area that I hope somebody may answer.

* I used to get terrible OTA reception with my HD Tuner and Internal Antenna. I am in a condo, so I couldn't install an outdoor one. Then one day I discovered I could get perfect reception on every HD channel except the Channel 9's if I simply connected a coax cable with bare wire exposed at the end. Does anyone know why this is? Why can a bare coax cable act as a better antenna that actual HD antennas?

* Also I know Charter is expanding its HD lineup this month, but will Charter ever get INHD or INHD2? I believe Charter was the only major cable company that wasn't a part of channel's creation, but after seeing the sports programming on those channels at my parents home in California, I feel like I'm being cheated out of a lot of HD programming.


If anyone can answer these questions, I'd be very thankful. Keep up the quality talk. A techno-junkie like me cannot get enough of it.

Winston,

FYI -- I'm still trying to hunt down additional information on the certified Media Center PC video cards from ATI.

But because this week is the CEDIA trade show, the earliest I'm likely to get any feedback will be the middle of next week.

Sounds good and I appreciate it. The middle of next week would be fine. I do not think I'll be purachinsg a new video card for a month or two. It will definitely be an ATI PCI-express card, though, I know that for sure.

Whenever you get the info, great. The card I'm leaning towards is the x700.

Robert... or anyone else.... any experience with Windows XP MCE?

How does it compare to TiVo functions?

Winston,

Sorry no personal experience with XP MCE. In my quest to keep the price down I went with XP Home and a freeware HTPC front end called Media Portal.

MCE is installed on a couple of the PC's that we sell at work, but we have no antenna feed available to try it out with. It does seem to work well for playing DVD's and such, but I have not had time to experiment with it more extensively.

ashwind,

Welcome to the forum -- it's good to hear that you find the discussion here useful and it's even better to have you actively participating.

On your questions:

* I have no idea why the bare wire works better than a regular antenna. It sounds sort of like a modern version of the coat-hanger-as-TV-antenna solution, which often worked better than the built in "rabbit ears" antenna that many TVs sold in the 1970s and before included.

Maybe someone else here can explain why this works for you, but I'd also definitely be interested in hearing if anyone else with troublesome reception tries this and whether it solves their problems.

Interesting...

* I could be wrong, but I think the main barrier to Charter carrying INHD is the fact that they have been restricting the amount of system bandwidth given to HD, based on some sort of corporate policy or local market decision(s). I don't think Charter's absence from the INHD consortium would mean they couldn't carry INHD if they decided they would like to offer it to subscribers, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it is somewhere on their overall priority list for future additions.

Obviously Charter is still at the early stages of playing catch-up, as it only recently opted to carry PBS and Discovery HD Theater.

FWIW, DirecTV has approached INHD about carrying these channels in the future, and while there is a dispute about the price that DirecTV has been quoted by INHD, there's nothing to prevent them from eventually coming to an agreement (once the seemingly obligatory lawsuit dust settles).

So, if INHD is talking with DirecTV, I wouldn't think there would be any problem with Charter gaining access to those channels at some point down the road.

jedi,

VOOM was originally part of the Cablevision corporation, and while it was at one point going to be owned solely by Charles Dolan Sr. (the founder of Cablevision), I don't think the transfer of ownership ever officially occurred before it died.

A moot point, in any event...

But you're absolutely correct that VOOM had nothing to do with Mark Cuban, underscored by the fact that HDNet and HDNet Movies were, in fact, completely absent from VOOM's otherwise extensive HD lineup.

Has anybody here been able to compare CHARTER HD v Direct tvHD side by side to see which one is the BEST...picture wise, and content wise in the st. louis area? I am really on the fence about this (i have the moxi, and charter). If there is a thread on this i would appreciate a redirect

THANKS

Last I heard DirectTV was still broadcasting HD-lite (1280x1080i). Im not expert but Im sure somebody will chime in here

Not a physical side by side comparison but when I moved from DTV to Charter, I had both services up together for a week. I noticed the picture quality was way better on Charter. As far as content, that varies on the station and not the provider. Now Charter isn't carrying Discovery HD until 9/15 while DTV has it now. There are a few channels here and there that vary from provider to provider. I also found that I got more bang for my $ with Charter. Yes the customer service is terrible with Charter on the phone, but I never seem to have an issue with online customer service. I ended up getting more content for what I was paying. No longer did I have to pay $5 each for the two tvs the kids have. I can just hook them straight up to Charter. The kids have no need to watch anything over channel 99 nor do they need VOD or PPV. That there saved us $10/month. When I had DTV I carried the Protection plan since I owned the equip. With Charter if the equipment fails you just have them swap it out and there are no up front costs. I was paying around $85 per month with DTV and no premium channels. I am now paying right at $100 and I have everything they offer. HDTV, all premiums, 2 moxi's, etc. Hope that helps you. And as always this was what I experienced and may not be what others think.

Has anybody here been able to compare CHARTER HD v Direct tvHD side by side to see which one is the BEST...picture wise, and content wise in the st. louis area? I am really on the fence about this (i have the moxi, and charter). If there is a thread on this i would appreciate a redirect

THANKS

Sorry, I can't help with the issue as to whether Charter HD or DirecTV HD is better, but to give you a third side of the fence to fall from, I have Dish Network. Some would argue that Dish's quality is better than DirecTV right now, and they do have a few more HD offerings at the moment. (Of course, that could change in the next few months, but promises and press releases don't mean much to me anymore.)

No matter how you slice it, though, you're going to get more HD from either of the satellite providers than from Charter, along with all the free local stations (including KDNL) if you can put up an antenna. Some people can't put up a satellite (live in an apartment, have too many reception problems), but if you can that's the biggest argument for not going with Charter right now.

I have Charter for high speed Internet and Dish for HD. It's a good combination. No way, right now, with Charter's HD offerings, would I go with Charter. That said, I'm not a loyalist. If Charter's HD offerings were significantly better than Dish's, and I had a way of freely editing and archiving recorded HD from Charter, I'd switch.

FYI -- ESPN2 HD is now available on DirecTV as channel 72.

Not a physical side by side comparison but when I moved from DTV to Charter, I had both services up together for a week. I noticed the picture quality was way better on Charter. As far as content, that varies on the station and not the provider. Now Charter isn't carrying Discovery HD until 9/15 while DTV has it now. There are a few channels here and there that vary from provider to provider. I also found that I got more bang for my $ with Charter. Yes the customer service is terrible with Charter on the phone, but I never seem to have an issue with online customer service. I ended up getting more content for what I was paying. No longer did I have to pay $5 each for the two tvs the kids have. I can just hook them straight up to Charter. The kids have no need to watch anything over channel 99 nor do they need VOD or PPV. That there saved us $10/month. When I had DTV I carried the Protection plan since I owned the equip. With Charter if the equipment fails you just have them swap it out and there are no up front costs. I was paying around $85 per month with DTV and no premium channels. I am now paying right at $100 and I have everything they offer. HDTV, all premiums, 2 moxi's, etc. Hope that helps you. And as always this was what I experienced and may not be what others think.
that was the comparison that i needed skippy thanks for the info

Well, never mind on the request for pros and cons on O'Fallon Electronics. Turns out they're not an authorized Sony repair center in the first place. So I went and got my dead DVD player back from them. I took it over to Dick's TV Repair in St. Charles, which IS an authorized Sony repair center, only to find a sign on the front door:

CLOSED FOR REMODELING. WILL REOPEN IN A FEW DAYS.

I had already tried C.C. Bell, where I've been bringing malfunctioning VCR's and such for nearly two decades, but their St. Charles location has apparently closed down permanently (storefront is completely empty with no sign in the door about having moved anywhere).

Can someone recommend an authorized Sony repair center in or near the St. Peters/O'Fallon area that's actually open for business?

Thanks....

P.S. DirecTV HD Lite continues unabated and is the reason I was less than enthusiastic about the addition of ESPN2-HD to the *D lineup. Common sense dictates that ESPN2-HD was already up and running in "test" mode (not accessible to the general public yet) for a while before the announcement was made. And as long as *D didn't add bandwidth to accomodate it, they simply had to steal it from 1 or 2 other channels... which lowered their already overcompressed PQ even more.

This is a bit off topic, okay, maybe a lot off topic, BUT....

I had miles of crappy RG-59 running through my house and since I've got the moxi +mate being installed on Friday, I'm taking the opportunity to put in RG-6. Charter has run a few lines and I'll be running a few more. Doing home runs this time back to a distribution box. (I'm not stealing cable, I'm running a video distribution system so that whatever is on the main unit can be displayed on all of the TV's in the house. Comes in handy during parties like the Super Bowl.)

At any rate, I'd like to know where I can purchase the same or similar f connectors that the cable company uses. They are very solid looking with a blue band on the bottom and for the life of me, I can't figure out how you could crimp it onto the cable. Are they just compression fittings that you push on and you're done? I think Home Depot carries these types of connectors that are branded 'Ideal'. I have a kit for stripping the wire, but my crimper leaves a little to be desired. I'd rather use the same connectors.

Thanks in advance.

kugumby,

This sort of thing can likely be purchased at SkyWalker Communications in Wentzville. Phone number is (636) 272-8025.

SkyWalker's primary market is installers and dealers, but they will sell to consumers, normally at a mark-up that is roughly in the retail cost ballpark.

Robert,

I know you don't want to hear this, but I think you'd probably be better off throwing your DVD player overboard and buying a replacement.

Finding someone who does competent repair work for consumer electronics products is extremely difficult, and my own experience in having a Panasonic DVD player repaired (repeatedly) a few years ago by an authorized dealer sealed that reality for me.

FWIW, I used to live in Japan, and consumers there NEVER bother with repairs, and I think there's some "at the coalface" wisdom there that I now better understand.

I appreciate you may have sentimental or financial attachment to the current player, but I suspect that you'll be back on the repair merry-go-round in short order. As it's under warranty, it's no doubt worth a shot, but you might want to start scouting around for a replacement just the same.

I'd just as soon stay out of the Charter vs. DirecTV vs. DISH picture quality comparisons, largely because I think it's a moving target, but I do think it's worth making a couple of points.

As somone who watches DirecTV's everyday, I know the HD quality is not as good as it was 2 years ago, though I don't think it's nearly as bad as the drama queens would tell you over in the HDTV Programming Forum -- there are far too many people there that will never be happy regardless what happens. A great example is the idea that ESPN2 shouldn't be in HD until everything on ESPN is HD. There's no point in dealing with those sort of short-sighted, know-it-all nitwits, which is why I spend little time there.

That said, the DirecTV HD channels that I watch the least are the ones that look most variable to me -- Universal HD and HDNet Movies. The others still look very good, IMO, and while I expect that they should all look the same, at least I'm comfortable where the corners are currently being cut.

I'm a big critic of overcompression and believe that big-screen owners are basically getting screwed senseless, considering how much we're paying for overcompressed SD channels that look like crap on anything beyond a 32-inch monitor. It doesn't have to be this bad.

Also, I'd hold off drawing any conclusions about Charter's picture quality until they add PBS, Cinemax and Discovery and the dust settles on those changes. I recall a year or so ago that there was some discussion about Charter's plans to place three HD channels into a space that's considered optimal for two, but I don't know if they ever went through with that, or whether that might be part of what's enabling the addition of the new channels now.

In any event, I don't think any provider has or will maintain a clear-cut quality edge, simply because it's not anywhere close to being a priority for ANY of them -- this businss is driven by quantity, not quality. I don't think MPEG-4 is going to improve this situation, and I fear it's possible that it will, in fact, make it worse over time.

As I've said before, if a provider ever comes along and takes a meaningful "put your money where your mouth is" pledge on picture quality, I will be the first to drop DirecTV and sign on. I think VOOM missed a MAJOR opportunity to catapult themselves into the high-end market, and they had every reason to take the quality pledge, but didn't. Too bad for them -- R.I.P.

Are you listening SBC?

Finally, here's a link to a previous post that shows the current channels available from the four major sources of HD available in St. Louis -- OTA, Charter, DirecTV and DISH.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5936573&&#post5936573

(Note that this grid will need to be updated for the addition of ESPN2 HD on DirecTV and I'll be looking to get that posted here in the next couple of days.)

Robert,

I know you don't want to hear this, but I think you'd probably be better off throwing your DVD player overboard and buying a replacement.

Finding someone who does competent repair work for consumer electronics products is extremely difficult, and my own experience in having a Panasonic DVD player repaired (repeatedly) a few years ago by an authorized dealer sealed that reality for me.

I appreciate you may have sentimental or financial attachment to the current player, but I suspect that you'll be back on the repair merry-go-round in short order. As it's under warranty, it's no doubt worth a shot, but you might want to start scouting around for a replacement just the same.

Doug,

If it weren't still under warranty, and if it weren't a top of the line $1200 player, I'd be the first to agree that getting a repair wouldn't be worth the effort.

But yeah, since I did drop a fortune on it and the repair won't cost me anything, the cost to benefit ratio of getting it fixed this time is pretty low. If it breaks down again after January, then I'd be more likely to pitch it. If that were to happen, I already have the replacement picked out:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-x5B0U2Zfb3D/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=158D9100ES&wm=su

I'd probably buy it somewhere else though... if I want to pay the same prices as the local stores charge, I'll just buy the thing locally.

BTW, has Charter actually added the new HD channels?

If so, can someone provide channel numbers so I can also include them in the programming guide?

the new HD on Charter starts on 9/15...

Thanks, Bruce.

FYI -- I'll wait until the Charter additions have arrived to update the Guide.

Hopefully this announcement will prompt Charlie to also make some sort of upgrade offer. Has anyone heard of any rumblings on this?

So why do we have a St. Louis thread instead of a St. Louis forum?
Certainly there is a better way to manage 248 pages of almost 7500 posts.

Doug,

I agree with you about what the quality of the Charter HD additions will bring. Our former colleague 3114 (Charter cheerleader and former employee) who said there was was no issue with bandwidth has been missing for quite some time. I am anxious to see the new channels. Hopefully some cable digitizing enhancement was made since several of us believed Charter only had bandwidth enough to adequately transmit eight HD channels without some nasty compression. Well, they have had nine HD channels since they added ESPN and the quality seems OK but I doubt if all nine have ever broadcast HD all at the same time!

I wonder if the digitizing of the 70 or so lower channels has somehow allowed Charter add more HD channels. I know the analog channels are still there but could they rob the analog signal a bit to add more digital bandwidth? The analog viewers might not even notice!

MegaTrain,

Having a separate, independent (non-AVS) forum for St. Louis has been tried by several different groups in the past and they never achieved the sort of critical mass that a larger forum such as AVS can provide.

So, while it's true that the discussion here covers multiple subjects related to HDTV, home theater, audio, etc., the wider net encourages more participation. I think splitting things up would result in fewer exchanges and ultimately a reduction in participation.

The St. Louis discussion here used to operate on a monthly basis, which made things a bit more manageable but also made searching and discussion continuity somewhat more difficult. A year or so ago AVS approached us about running with a single ongoing thread and we made that transition away from monthly topics. The only downside I see to abandoning the monthly thread is that the resource posts about OTA reception and the FAQs for newcomers are almost always overlooked until they're pointed out. As a result of that, we get a lot of the same questions repeatedly.

But I think even the repetition is a good thing, as it helps convert lurkers to active participants. I would estimate that at any point in time there are around 30 or 40 active posters here, with probably around 5 to 10 times that number of lurkers who never (or only very rarely) post. That's just a guess on my part, based on the fact that I get about five calibration inquiries from AVS lurkers for every inquiry from someone who posts regularly. That might not be the best gauge, but it feels about right to me.

One possibility for making the discussion here more manageable is to split the St. Louis discussion into two strictly defined topics -- OTA only and Cable only (or Cable/Sat) -- as some cities here on AVS have done. Personally, I don't think that would be a good thing, as it would make keeping up to date with the discussions more of a hassle. I also doubt that we'd ultimately have a lot of success in segregating the discussions, as all of these topics are ultimately related to some degree.

But splitting things up is an option if there's enough demand to do that...and I'm sure AVS would accommodate us if that was what we decide we want to do.

redwine,

I don't know what the big picture situation is for Charter in terms of available bandwidth, but I know that cable operators around the country are generally finding that bandwidth is becoming constrained again, despite the industry's conversion to bigger systems with digital compression over the past 5 or 10 years.

I would have expected that there would be some deterioration in overall Charter picture quality as a result of having redundant channels 2-99 for digital customers. While I appreciate that digital compression significantly reduces the hit those 90+ channel additions will ulitmately cause, it still seems like it would add up to a pretty significant drain on capacity.

But then, I can't recall a single post here complaining about Charter picture quality since the first phase of the transition took place. That would seem to indicate that there isn't any problem. Whether that continues to be the case as the other phases are rolled out and Charter adds more HD (and SD) channels, we probably won't know until it happens.

I don't think there's much scope for squeezing bandwidth away from the analog channels. There are probably ways to do compress analog, but I doubt the effort and cost required would be worthwhile, especially when cable operators are more focused on/hoping for analog to completely go away at some point.

CoCoKola,

I haven't heard anything about DISH's plans to ease the customer transition to MPEG-4, but I think that's probably because they aren't very far along in that process (at least as far as I'm aware).

But I think DirecTV is basically setting (or maintaining) a precedent on system upgrades and how much of that falls onto existing customers. FWIW, I think it would be hard for DISH to ignore that when the time comes for them to broadly roll out MPEG-4.

Maybe some DISH customers here have been following this issue more closely and will know more...

Doug,
Thanks for the clarification concerning Voom. Man, I miss that service. Also, I hear what you're saying about the lack of quality AV repair places. Still, I'd like to put a plug in for my buddy Zaw at Alpha Tech Electronics on Lindberg. Sorry Bob, he's not an authorized Sony repairman, so this won't help you right now. But, Zaw has worked on some pretty sensitive hi-end stuff for me over the year, and he's always fixed things quite well. Recently I picked up my Krell KMA-100 monoblock amps from him(they listed for $3,000 each when new). The amps came back sounding better than I'd ever heard them, and he even had the interiors cleaned out nicely from all the dust and gunk that had built up over the years. The repair, while not cheap, saved me hundreds that I would have had to spend if they needed to go back to the factory. I highly recommend his shop.

Joe,
You're probably aware of this already, but a relatively inexpensive way of archiving hd recordings off Charter's hd service is to get one of their boxes that has a firewire connection and a d-vhs vcr. I got my JVC 30K deck for under three bills, which is less than I've spent on any vcr, and it's the best one I've owned. Instead of buying the more expensive digital tapes for recording, I discovered than I can use svhs tapes for hd just fine.

jedi,

Excellent -- but then again, with a name like Zaw, it was probably pre-ordained that the guy would be an electronics wiz.

Seriously this infomration is like gold dust, and it would be great if you could follow up and list the brands of equipment that Zaw repairs, and whether it includes video gear, or just audio.

A phone number would be great to have for the archive here, too.

Jedi.....Joe

You don't even need a D-VHS deck. You can do it to your computer. Search in the HTPC forum for VLC. If you are running XP, you can get the apps and drivers to make your computer PRETEND to be a D-VHS deck.

Walt

Jedi.....Joe

You don't even need a D-VHS deck. You can do it to your computer. Search in the HTPC forum for VLC. If you are running XP, you can get the apps and drivers to make your computer PRETEND to be a D-VHS deck.

And with a nifty little program called VideoRedo (http://www.videoredo.com), you can even cut out the commercials with no reencoding or quality loss.

+1 for Zaw, he's a great guy. He's actually on Big Bend about 100 yards south of HiFiFoFum.

Alpha Tech Electronics
1502 S Big Bend Blvd
Saint Louis, MO 63117

(314) 645-5250

Never seen a TV there so Im not sure if he does video, it not a huge place. He has a consignment shop with some pretty neat gear upstairs. Zaw is the owner and has been in business for 30 years

has anybody with charter and moxi noticed that there is alot more pixelation on some of the hd channels than before. most noticeably on HBO with ROME, i also saw it last nigth during th O.C. I wonder if this is all part of adding more hd channels?

please somebody tell me it isnt just my moxi doing this!

has anybody with charter and moxi noticed that there is alot more pixelation on some of the hd channels than before. most noticeably on HBO with ROME, i also saw it last nigth during th O.C. I wonder if this is all part of adding more hd channels?

please somebody tell me it isnt just my moxi doing this!

I can't believe you admitted to watching the O.C..... I didn't notice any problems on Fox from 7-8 last night ;)

has anybody with charter and moxi noticed that there is alot more pixelation on some of the hd channels than before. most noticeably on HBO with ROME, i also saw it last nigth during th O.C. I wonder if this is all part of adding more hd channels?

please somebody tell me it isnt just my moxi doing this!

I had no problems with Rome on Sunday night (thankfully, I can't comment on the O.C. :) )

who has received their moxi mates?

has anybody with charter and moxi noticed that there is alot more pixelation on some of the hd channels than before. most noticeably on HBO with ROME, i also saw it last nigth during th O.C. I wonder if this is all part of adding more hd channels?

please somebody tell me it isnt just my moxi doing this!

We too watched the O.C. through our moxi...but we had no problems whatsoever with pixelation. Time for a service call?

Our MoxiMate comes on Monday!

Doug,
Thanks for the clarification concerning Voom. Man, I miss that service. Also, I hear what you're saying about the lack of quality AV repair places. Still, I'd like to put a plug in for my buddy Zaw at Alpha Tech Electronics on Lindberg. Sorry Bob, he's not an authorized Sony repairman, so this won't help you right now. But, Zaw has worked on some pretty sensitive hi-end stuff for me over the year, and he's always fixed things quite well. Recently I picked up my Krell KMA-100 monoblock amps from him(they listed for $3,000 each when new). The amps came back sounding better than I'd ever heard them, and he even had the interiors cleaned out nicely from all the dust and gunk that had built up over the years. The repair, while not cheap, saved me hundreds that I would have had to spend if they needed to go back to the factory. I highly recommend his shop.

Joe,
You're probably aware of this already, but a relatively inexpensive way of archiving hd recordings off Charter's hd service is to get one of their boxes that has a firewire connection and a d-vhs vcr. I got my JVC 30K deck for under three bills, which is less than I've spent on any vcr, and it's the best one I've owned. Instead of buying the more expensive digital tapes for recording, I discovered than I can use svhs tapes for hd just fine.

Yes, Jedi, I have a couple of those JVC 30Ks myself (although one is in need of repair now). But, the stack of S-VHS tapes that I'm accumulating is giving me the willies. It's starting to look like 1984 all over again. I've decided to archive to multiple DVDs, using VideoRedo, then wait for next-gen hidef DVD to reassemble the files for viewing. I'm going to try to show some patience on this one, since I think it's likely we'll have two or three hidef data storage options in a couple of years.

Funny you should mention Zaw at Alpha Tech. I was there getting an older B&O receiver fixed just yesterday. I took it in with my godfather two days ago and he had it ready the next day. He's a really good guy. He was one of my godfather's students when he moved to the US in the 60s, and couldn't speak English at all. And he's easy to get to, just south of Hwy. 40 on Big Bend and Lindbergh Dr. (Maybe we should do commercials for him. :) )

Hello all... my first post here:

I just made the move (and it still stings a bit) from directv/tivo to charter... I've been on a waiting list for the Moxi for close to a month. When I first called to order the service, I was told I would have the new Moxi... then during the call, that was downgraded to a simple dvr (non-hd). Then that was changed, by the end of the call, to a simple HD box. I started to worry and called later to add a CableCard, just in case. Sure enough, the intallers had no Moxi, no old dvr, no HD box, just a plain, old digital box (with a busted remote). And the CableCard.

According to customer support, I'm about 200 people down the list. And I can't seem to find out when it may arrive. And now I'm hearing about Moxi Mate.

In the interiim, I bought a TiVo, at least giving me some semblance of control (although no simultaneous recording on 2 channels).

Is anyone else on the waiting list? Is it worth the wait?

I'm worried that this may not be an enjoyable experience... granted, I am saving money. But with subpar equipment on a new HDTV, that makes it appear all the worse.

dan

Hello all... my first post here:

I just made the move (and it still stings a bit) from directv/tivo to charter... I've been on a waiting list for the Moxi for close to a month. When I first called to order the service, I was told I would have the new Moxi... then during the call, that was downgraded to a simple dvr (non-hd). Then that was changed, by the end of the call, to a simple HD box. I started to worry and called later to add a CableCard, just in case. Sure enough, the intallers had no Moxi, no old dvr, no HD box, just a plain, old digital box (with a busted remote). And the CableCard.

According to customer support, I'm about 200 people down the list. And I can't seem to find out when it may arrive. And now I'm hearing about Moxi Mate.

In the interiim, I bought a TiVo, at least giving me some semblance of control (although no simultaneous recording on 2 channels).

Is anyone else on the waiting list? Is it worth the wait?

I'm worried that this may not be an enjoyable experience... granted, I am saving money. But with subpar equipment on a new HDTV, that makes it appear all the worse.

dan

Dan, I highly doubt the information that this CSR gave you. I just called yesterday and have scheduled a MoxiMate installation on Monday. Honestly, I would call back again, make sure you are talking to someone in St. Louis and then ask to get a Moxi. I bet you get one early next week. If you still get the runaround, post here again - we have some fantastic Charter people who post on this thread...they can help you in a jam.

And FYI...Charter only has HD DVR [the moxi]. They have never offered a non-HD DVR...

Good luck!

Moxi+mate is in da house. The wife has already given it one strike compared to E* in that it doesn't have caller ID come up on the TV screen. I checked splinke's FAQ and it mentions that caller ID will be available at some point, but it doesn't look like it is now. Someone let me know if that's not accurate.

I'll report back when I've had a chance to mess with it.

Well, I just called the local number and they said that yes, indeed, I am on a waiting list (of approx. 1400) waiting on the Moxi DVR. And I understand that there has only been one DVR (as was pointed out by the installers) but that wasn't how it was explained during my first phone call, when it was all pie in the sky, flowers and sunshine. So I go back to waiting.

Dan,

I'll try and track down the Charter guy here and see if he'll help ya out on this...

Well, I certainly appreciate that...
thank you

I have one as well. WIth the influx of the new boxes I don't see how their can be a waiting list on the old ones as I ordered the day the new ones came out and had it installed the next day.

Well, I just called the local number and they said that yes, indeed, I am on a waiting list (of approx. 1400) waiting on the Moxi DVR. And I understand that there has only been one DVR (as was pointed out by the installers) but that wasn't how it was explained during my first phone call, when it was all pie in the sky, flowers and sunshine. So I go back to waiting.

1400? I wonder how long of a wait that means?

I was going to break down and give my third try at getting a Moxi installed but am not sure what to do. (Had two previous appointments. Waited at home during the scheduled time and they never showed.)

i don't know... i'd really prefer to pick it up and install it myself.

And now for something completely different:

Anyone else notice gray bands rolling from bottom to top on OTA Channel 5-01 with network SD programs (not local news, etc.)?

DT programs look fine. Channel 30-01 had this issue a while back.

I am trading in my two Moxi boxes for the MoxiMate setup next Friday. You could sit on my doorstep and swipe the old Moxi from the installer. :D

I am trading in my two Moxi boxes for the MoxiMate setup next Friday. You could sit on my doorstep and swipe the old Moxi from the installer. :D

is the moxi mate hd?

I checked on the KSDK 5.1 problem this week, and found that my older SONY DA50 ES receiver strangely displayed DD 3.0 for programs that should have been 5.1. The front panel graphics showed that signals were being sent to front left, center, and right channels, but I got no center sound at all. Even stranger, I did get sound from my rears, but this may have been generated by the Sony receiver itself and it's at a very low level. I just checked my more updated Sony DA5 ES in the front room, and it's doing the same thing. My receivers falsely indicate that the DD stream is 3.0 for all surround modes, and even if I select the 2 channel mode. Anybody else have a Sony receiver that can confirm this?

On my Sony DE945: Programs that should be 5.1 are only 3.0 on KSDK. It's been this way for months. KSDK did transmit 5.1 at one time (although not all of the channels actually carried program material).

Re: the Charter waiting list... I've been on the list for a non-Moxi HD box since March.

Doug,
As others have reported, I don't think Zaw has the space or the manpower to handle video stuff as well. However, he has worked on smaller things like vcrs and such for me. I've seen plenty of those there, as well as dvd players. Frankly, I don't know what he might be the authorized dealer for. Usually I'm well out of the warranty period if something needs to go to him. I'm glad to see that others like the quality service there too. I'd say the door is open to take any brand of gear to him, and he'll let you know if he can fix it. He is a big fan of video, and has a nice front projection theater setup upstairs at the shop, as well as in his home. He has several crt, lcd, and dlp pjs on hand. In fact, I bought my first pj from him....an Eiki lcd(made by Sanyo), as well as some seriously thick vga to component cables and digital vhs tapes.

Walt and Bob,
Yep, you both are correct. A pc running XP and recording straight off a firewire feed or an hd tuner card would be a good way to go. Bob, that program for editing out commercials seems like a dream if you don't have 2 d-vhs decks like Joe(can you tell I'm jealous??). Also, with a pc you're not limited in that a d-vhs deck requires a seperate OTA tuner or hd device with a firewire output like my Sammy T-165(such a device is rare), and the only limitation on single recording time is the size of your hard drive(s), not the 2 hour tape length. This is certainly where I'd like to wind up.

Dan,
I don't think that Charter will let you do a pickup and self-install. They want to be able to charge the installation fee, and they told me that it cuts down on service calls when they send out their "highly tained" guys to do the job right the first time. Funny, huh? Also, the moxi-mate box itself will not do hd. It only provides sd images in a second room, fed from the main moxi unit itself. Somebody check me on this.

Dave,
Thanks for confirming the 3.0 deal off KSDK on Sony receivers. You still get no center sound, right? Any rears?

Doug,
I almost forgot. While I was reading some DISH 942 threads last night, I came across the information that the 942 has several picture control features that I was unaware of. Some of them I have no use for, like the stretch modes, and different zooms. However, one of them will be a prized jewel when viewing on my Pioneer 53" hd rptv.... the grey bar mode. This function will place grey pillarbars at the sides of any image, hd or sd. yes, I know that no one would want to do that with hd. But it will actually change the black bars (that are placed there by broadcasters for sd material on digital channels)into gray bars, saving the set from burn-in. See what I get for not reading the manual? Does the HD Tivo do this as well? I haven't heard of any other device that will change the color of the black pillarbars inbedded in the tv signal itself. What a nice gift, as I do quite a bit of 4:3 viewing on my rptv.

Also, it has always bugged me that hitting pause on the channel I'm watching so that I could check another channel never worked, as I'd find that returning to the original channel resulted in lost time that I couldn't rewind. I know that hitting the record button gives me the option of recording up to 2 programs at once, but reading the 942 threads has made me aware of another ability. If I hit pause, pull up the PIP window, and hit the swap button, my paused channel will become the inset picture. I can now surf to whatever chanel I want to check, and when I hit swap again, I can continue watching my paused channel without any interruption(bearing in mind the buffer memory). This way, I don't have to hit any record buttons, and then get into the dvr menu to watch what I've missed. In fact, I can freeze both the inset picture and the main picture, and swap back and forth between the two without loosing any time. It pays to read a bit, doesn't it?

There are some 942 kinks that I'm trying to learn more about. I could have a defective unit, but I've discovered that I'm only getting a DD 5.1 signal via one of the tuners...tuner 1. This is clearly seen if I tune both tuners to the same 5.1 capable channel, and hit the swap button. The 5.1 channel sound follows the tuner 1 signal when it's the main picture only. I've noticed this since my system has been modified with a signal seperator, which happened when I added the second dish for the sat at 61.5. It seems strange that this should be a limitation of a 942 in proper working order. The HD Tivo gives you 5.1 through both tuners, right?

Now that I watch primarily the hdmi output of the 942, I see what other users mean by the fact that the hdmi jack shuts off when the unit powers down, and requires either a receiver reset to pop back on, or a shortcut that I figured out...I switch over to the component input, get into the hdtv setup menu and switch the resolution to anything other than what it was set on. This somehow kicks the hdmi jack back on, and then I change it back to whatever I want it to be. Maybe this will be addressed in a future software fix. Sorry to rant on...

Dave,
Thanks for confirming the 3.0 deal off KSDK on Sony receivers. You still get no center sound, right? Any rears?
I've never heard anything out of the center or rears, only L&R fronts.
Such is the case right now with Conan.

There were some questions as to whether or not Dish is considering the move to mpeg4 anytime soon, and if it would upgrade customers' equipment. Here is an email response I grabbed off another thread from Dish to a customer concerning this:

Thank you for your email. DISH Network is exploring ways to increase its channel capacity, especially for HDTV channels. DISH Network is currently exploring using MPEG4, an advanced compression technology that will allow for more efficient use of our satellite bandwidth. This may require new set top boxes for customers to access new services going forward. Historically, DISH Network has offered an upgrade path for current customers to acquire any new equipment necessary to view or subscribe new channels. This new compression technology is expected to rollout in late 2005 or in 2006. No further information is available at this time.

Jedi,

That editing program is only $50 from http://www.videoredo.com

I can't answer if the Tivo can change the color of the pillar bars on 4x3 stuff... since my TV is 4x3 and I just have the Tivo output a 480i signal on 4x3 programs. And as for pillar bars during commercials in a 16x9 show, well, my solution for that is the 30-second skip button. :D

is the moxi mate hd?

The MoxiMate is a companion box to the 9022D Moxi Receiver. You cannot get one without the other. The 9022D houses the 180gb harddrive and is a HD PVR. The MoxiMate houses NO harddrive, and basically 'borrows' a tuner from the 9022. The MoxiMate however is only SD.

Hope this helps...

The MoxiMate is a companion box to the 9022D Moxi Receiver. You cannot get one without the other. The 9022D houses the 180gb harddrive and is a HD PVR. The MoxiMate houses NO harddrive, and basically 'borrows' a tuner from the 9022. The MoxiMate however is only SD.

Hope this helps...
it helps... and leads me back to life on the charter moxi waiting list

The MoxiMate is a companion box to the 9022D Moxi Receiver. You cannot get one without the other. The 9022D houses the 180gb harddrive and is a HD PVR. The MoxiMate houses NO harddrive, and basically 'borrows' a tuner from the 9022. The MoxiMate however is only SD.

Hope this helps...
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I have had the MoxiMate for almost 1 day. Bottomline: Excellent.
All features pretty much like the regular MOXI (there is one returned now for one of those 1400 on the waiting list).

The only think not working is VOD and they told me (after a call, not the installer) that it would take 24-48 hours for it to upload all the data to run. Pay per view worked right away. Does this sounds fishy? I'll wait another 24 before I bitch again.

On the other hand, I like many others have complained about the sloooooooooow response of the moxi menu. Let me give you another view. Mine has been very slow and I just thought it was the MOXI. My set-up included a coaxial line that came in and was split. One line to the moxi box and another to a Radio Shack powered amplifier the amplifier went to four other TV's. One of those TV is the one where the MoxiMate unit was going. The installer got way to much interefence and the picture and sound were terrible. He took a bunch of Db mesurement and decided that I needed more power. He went out and rummaged through his truck and brought back a new Digimax Drop Amplifier (5-42/52-1000MHz). I had never seen one of these before. So to summarize: cable in to this Digimax to a triple splitter. The triple splitter goes to the (1)Moxi (2) Moxi Mate and (3) to the radioshack power amplifier. Everything looks beautiful and the MoxiMenu is lightning fast!!!! So I have been blaming Moxi and it was the signal strength???

The DVD player is working perfectly from both TV's.

I would be glad to answer any other questions.

it helps... and leads me back to life on the charter moxi waiting list

Why wait? Get Directv today, and watch NFL in HD tomorrow! :D

Scott

On the compression issue...

Are OTA signals not compressed the way cable and satellite signals are?

I've always been confused on that part of the issue while I understand the idea of compression all too well.

Is anyone else not getting an OTA signal for ABC30?

Is anyone else not getting an OTA signal for ABC30?


I am getting audio, but no video....anyone else? Anyone know the phone number, tried their website, with no luck.

I am getting audio, but no video....anyone else? Anyone know the phone number, tried their website, with no luck.
No picture or sound here.
Receiver is trying to lock on to something but no joy.

No picture or sound here.
Receiver is trying to lock on to something but no joy.


I've got sound, no picture

It's working now, but they aren't even broadcasting the game in HD. :mad:

jedi,

Thanks for the additional information on Zaw. I'll definitely keep him in mind and it's good that his contact info is available here now via the search functions. Good for him and good for those in need...

I'm unfamiliar with the DISH 942 function that changes the gray bars to black. I have some theories about how that might be done, but I'll need to see it in the flesh at some point. Personally, I'd be wary of how that process might also be stepping on actual picture information. I suppose since it's only SD it's not a big deal and I guess the trade-off is probably worth it, considering it reduces the risk of burn-in. Still, I'd be curious if it inadvertently mucked up picture quality when HD was being viewed.

Also, as far as I know, HD TiVo doesn't have any option like that.

On the other hand, because the TiVo has two tuners, surfing during commercials is a snap. Simply hit pause, hit the Live TV button to switch to the other tuner and surf away. Once you're ready to go back to the current program, you just hit Live TV to switch back to the first tuner and hit the 30-second skips to get back to the program without viewing the ads.

I'm unaware of any problems with 5.1 not working on both TiVo tuners. I haven't really checked this, but have no reason to think this wouldn't be functional on both.

Winston,

HD OTA uses the same compression scheme (MPEG-2) as cable and satellite do for standard-definition programming (and for HD).

But the application of compression for OTA HD is largely different from how we traditionally think about digital cable and satellite compression. On the cable/sat side of the fence, compression is used on individual channels in order to maximize the use of the overall system bandwidth.

The problem with cable and satellite compression is that these system operators believe that if a little compression is a good thing, a lot of compression is a great thing. Maybe that's true when they do their revenue-per-bit calculations, but you'd need to be Stevie Wonder not to see how it wrecks picture quality.

I assume that all cable and satellite executives are required to do a semester at the local School for the Blind as part of their management training. Frequent customer feedback surveys are probably conducted there, as well. :)

On the other hand, HDTV would be impossible without MPEG-2 compression or something like it. An uncompressed HDTV video/audio stream requires massive amounts of bandwidth, and without compression there would be no prospect of OTA broadcasts without each terrestrial station taking up huge chunks of the finite broadcast spectrum. As a result, MPEG-2 is applied to OTA HD broadcasting, and as long as there's enough bandwidth to handle HD program peaks, there's little evidence of picture degradation.

Where compression can more obviously rear its ugly head on the HD OTA side of the fence is when broadcasters choose to "multi-cast," which basically means they are subdividing the available bandwidth in order to broadcast an HD program stream along with one or more SD streams.

This is what both KETC (9-1, 9-2, 9-3) and KSDK (5-1, 5-2) are doing, and the net effect of it is that less bandwidth is available for HD broadcasting. The effect of "misplaced bits" is readily apparent on the PBS national feed, which I can hardly bear to watch. The impact on the NBC high-definition programming since the addition of KSDK's local weather channel is more subtle, but I have noticed more pixellation and some softness that I don't believe was an issue previously.

For example, I record just the musical sequences on Leno, Conan and Letterman every night. Since KSDK added the weather channel, I notice pixellation in the musical performances much more frequently. This is particularly evident when the band of the evening chooses to use strobe lights, which are notoriously difficult for MPEG compression even under the best of circumstances. As a result, I'm seeing more severe pixellation than I did 3 months ago. Granted, I could see it before when the strobes kicked on, but the effect in those situations is now much more severe.

But overall, programs like Leno, Las Vegas and Conan all seem a little bit less sharp than before, though I don't currently have a way to do a before/after comparison. Maybe if there's a repeat of one ot the pre-weather channel shows where I've saved the musical performance, I'll be able to do a comparison.

Moxi mate first impressions:

I haven't had the moxi at all before so it's all *kind* of new. I say kind of because I had signed up for it at the end of July and just had it installed yesterday. In that time, I've done scads of research on it so nothing was a big surprise.

That being said, I was prepared to really hate the guide since I was used to the grid system used by E*. I'm happy to say that I kind of like it. It made me realize that I don't REALLY look to see what's on down the line except on the channels that I watch the most. So, I've got no problems with it. I do like the fact that Moxiguy has said one of the later releases will give you the option of a grid guide.

The mate works as advertised. It's the exact same setup as the main box. You can tune into all of the HD channels and it will just downconvert them to 480i and you have options as to how you want them displayed. Piece of cake.

I thought the quality of the HD was good. I currently have E* and haven't really dug in to do a side by side, but from what I've seen so far, I think it looks as good as what I'm getting on the dish. I have it connected with Bluejeans component cables.

I had the same problem with VOD as PWSHER, but it was about 12:45 last night and I didn't feel like trying to call. Not sure anyone would have been there anyway. I figured I'd just try it again today. As far as menu speed goes, I have no problems. The mate might have been a HAIR slower than the main box, but I'm talking fractions of seconds, so it's no problem. I wasn't there (my wife was) when the guy was hooking it up, but he did put a silver barrel connector in front of everything. It's about 1" or so in diameter and a couple of inches long. Is it a signal decreaser? I'm not sure. It might say on it, but I didn't really look at it that closely. From there he put on a 3 way splitter to go out to the moxi boxes and another tv.

One thing I forgot to ask him to do was put a splitter in front of the main moxi unit, so I could do picture in picture on my TV. I guess I'll try to get one from the place in Wentzville that Doug mentioned the other day. We'll see if it has any effect on the menu speed on the moxi.

I do have an issue that I haven't been able to solve yet, however. Since I'm trying to distribute what is on the main tv to all other tv's in the house, I used the composite out on the moxi to go to line in on our vcr. As long as 480i is checked in the HDTV setup on the moxi, I get video to the other televisions EXCEPT when I'm on an HD channel. At that point, I get a blue screen. (I also have 1080i and 720p checked.) The E* 811 receiver I have now will downconvert all HD programming to 480i and send it through the composite video out port.

I'll post a more detailed account of this in the moxi forum, but any suggestions you have I'll certainly listen.

BTW, the E* 811 unit also will do the gray bars. There are 5 modes you can scroll through. (I may be missing one mode and the exact name, but you'll get my point.) Normal, Stretched, Zoomed, gray bars & black bars. You can scroll through these using the 'page' buttons above the guide button.

Slightly off topic:
I have a USB Flash drive that has died. It will not work on any computer and I have done everything I can to diagnose the problem.

Can anyone recommend a data recovery service? Ideally in St. Louis but out of town is okay.

Just to throw a name out there, you might be able to call EPC to see if they do it. They're out in the Cave Springs area. (636) 443-1999

If they don't do it, I'd imagine they can point you in a direction of someone who can. They should be open today as well.

Good luck!

I've never heard anything out of the center or rears, only L&R fronts.
Such is the case right now with Conan.

That's because Conan is not in 5.1. The center and rears do work when 5.1 program material is presented. Watch Las Vegas or some other Prime Time HD show. The reason why you experience this isse with Conan, Leno and other "Stereo" shows is becasue the 5.1 Pilot is transmitted, but there is simply no audio to send to the 3 extra channels.

That's because Conan is not in 5.1. The center and rears do work when 5.1 program material is presented. Watch Las Vegas or some other Prime Time HD show. The reason why you experience this isse with Conan, Leno and other "Stereo" shows is becasue the 5.1 Pilot is transmitted, but there is simply no audio to send to the 3 extra channels.

Which, it should be pointed out, is due to a perpetual screwup at KSDK and is not "normal." Someone at KSDK should be flipping a switch to flag the audio as 2.0 when only two channels are being transmitted. But they don't.

That's because Conan is not in 5.1. The center and rears do work when 5.1 program material is presented. Watch Las Vegas or some other Prime Time HD show. The reason why you experience this isse with Conan, Leno and other "Stereo" shows is becasue the 5.1 Pilot is transmitted, but there is simply no audio to send to the 3 extra channels.
I've heard center channel material recently on other programs there, but no rear or LFE channels on anything for several months.

This was especially evident during the Eagles Farewell Concert (as originally broadcast and recently re-aired). We couldn't hear any keyboards or horns because these were mixed on the rear channels exclusively and the rear channels were not being encoded in the stream from KSDK.

Guys

You know it amazes me that the people who developed the Hipix card could eliminate commercials when the picture went to 4X3. They did not have the type of budgets that the networks (locals) have but made it happen. Now all we talk about is THROWING THE SWITCH. What's up with that? Shouldn't it be automatic?

Walt

Guys

You know it amazes me that the people who developed the Hipix card could eliminate commercials when the picture went to 4X3. They did not have the type of budgets that the networks (locals) have but made it happen. Now all we talk about is THROWING THE SWITCH. What's up with that? Shouldn't it be automatic?

Walt

With Fox, it is automatic and I've never had an audio issue with channel 2-1. Ever.

With KMOV and KDNL, I think it's manual and they forget to throw the switch occasionally.

Not sure about KPLR. Only recurring audio issue with them is the national HD audio is at way too low a level compared to the local SD commercials. But they always flag the number of channels correctly.

KSDK is simply out there in the Twilight Zone somewhere. I've sent e-mail about this situation to the KSDK addresses Doug provided at the beginning of this thread, but received no answer from any of them.

Robert

I don't know what the FCC is doing. It is my understanding that there is a law governing the difference in volume between commercials and regular programming. Now, my ears are getting old, but, I know they ALL are exceeding the limit.

Walt

hey just wondering what service are you describing when you say E*

hey just wondering what service are you describing when you say E*

E is shorthand for Echostar, or Dish Network. D is short for DirecTV.

jedi35:
I've been a E* customer for some time, and have been waiting for a lease option for current customers. I've tried to keep up with the features/issues with the 942. From what I recall "no DD5.1 on tuner #2" was a reported issue when it was first released. It does record DD, but playback can be troublesome. DD5.1 on second tuner problem (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=44624).

I've also read that MPEG4 will definitely require hardware upgrades for all the HD boxes since the encoding/decoding was chip based that can't be flashed or replaced- this is why I've been waiting for a lease option. Although it may be a couple of years, I can't justify dropping $7xx for a box that I know I will want to replace in ~two years.

Doug,
Just so we're clear, my 942 has the ability to change black bars into grey bars, not grey bars into black bars. If the 811 can change grey bars to black, that's a feature that was left out of the 942. I can understand why, since it doesn't make much sense to me if one wants to change the safer grey pillarbars generated by the broadcaster into black ones and risk burn-in. Yes indeed, picture information will be covered if the grey bar mode is used on a 16:9 signal. I can't imagine anyone wanting to watch a program like that. However, your question about whether or not any part of the image is covered for SD viewing got me wondering. I conducted a simple test which gave me the answer. I paused the picture on an SD image that gave me good visual references for the left and right borders, and then cycled from the grey bar to the normal mode several times. Each time, I saw that no part of the image area was covered at all by the grey bars, and things looked exactly the same when the black bars came back in normal mode. I tried this on several channels just to be sure, and it looks like Dish got it right. Also, I can detect no loss of picture quality at all. I don't know how they do it, but this feature rocks!!

Yes, it looks like the HD Tivo has a more convenient way of freezing a channel so you can surf on the other tuner, and come back to the frozen picture ok. The 942 has a "view tv" button. If you freeze the picture and hit this button, you'll be taken to the live tv image of that same tuner, as the buffer memory is cleared. Even if I hit the pause button and then swap, when I come back to the first tuner it will have returned to live tv mode. I must pause the picture and then hit the PIP button if I want to surf on the second tuner, and come back to the same paused image. Maybe this will change in a future update.

Further reading did reveal that the 942's hdmi signal shutoff is tied directly to the 1080i resolution. It's a bug, and should be fixed in a future update. The fix right now is to make sure that the unit is at 720p before it shuts down for the nightly updating. I tried this last night(actually early this morning)and my hdmi output was still up and running when I fired up the pj today. Cool. Dish tech support has tried to call me several times regarding my other issues, but we keep missing each other. I appreciate the fact that they leave me messages to let me know that they are trying.

It's good to hear talk of Dish activating the USB ports for additional hard drive storage. However, it seems that the ports will only work for one brand of hard drive, and just a couple of models at that. These drives are no larger than 40 gigs or so, and completely useless to HD fans. Bummer. I may consider leasing a second 942 at some point.

Bob,
Thanks for the link. Sorry that I didn't make it out tonight. Also, you've made me realize that the 942 is without a 480i passthrough mode. Maybe that's coming in the future.

mjohnson71,
I've got a buddy that works at EPC, and I'm sure that they do data recovery. If you have trouble reaching anyone there, shoot me a PM.

About KSDK, I could have sworn that I was checking the sound on Las Vegas within the past couple of weeks, and got no center sound. Can someone tell me for sure what primetime shows on 5-1 to expect full 5.1 sound from?

CoCoKola,
Dude, thanks for that thread. It certainly answered my question. I've now found out that a big software upgrade may be out this month that might fix the 5.1 issue.

Charter employee or cable insider

Regarding Beta tests of Charter Services. Do they only use employees for these types of tests or do they actually use "customers". I would be willing to scientifically evaluate new products. I may be of help since I live in the St. Louis Market, subscribe to everything that Charter offers from cable to internet to phone and have been doing research (biology/chemistry, not electronic) for over 25 years. Anybody have a contact?
pwsher

KSDK is simply out there in the Twilight Zone somewhere. I've sent e-mail about this situation to the KSDK addresses Doug provided at the beginning of this thread, but received no answer from any of them.

Yes, same here. Beyond lame to just ignore with no explanation. And since I lost WICS-DT out of Springfield to ABC, I have no choice but to put up with KSDK-DT's garbage again.

Doug, thanks for the explanation on OTA compression.

Hey just discovered this forum,(live in Afton) so far so good. I have a couple questions. Will we get any HD Hockey (DirecTV), I know OLN will carry Hockey but will it be HD? Also when will Fox Sports Midwest start doing the Cardinals in HD, I mean heck, channel eleven has HD baseball. :cool:

duvy,

I don't follow hockey, so don't know the story there but I'm sure that one of the many Blues fans here will chime in.

On HD baseball and FOX Sports Midwest, FSN had planned to carry 22 HD games this season, even going so far as to run a couple of early-season promos on its Cards' broadcasts. In the end, however, FSN had to completely shelve those plans because they couldn't get any distributor (Charter, DirecTV or DISH) to agree to carry the games.

As a Cubs fan would say, "maybe next year..."

FWIW, my understanding is that the FOX network does all of its switching remotely from the national network center, so local stations don't have to deal with it at all during those times when the programming originates from the network (prime time, sports, etc).

It's bad form that KDSK hasn't been answering its eMail on these sorts of issues. But then, not so long ago we did have forum members here who had received replies from KSDK in which KSDK said it would fix the problems with switching failures. But they still happen a year later, so the problem is not a communication issue -- it's a competence issue.

Switching failures...half-assed surround sound...useless weather channel. It's all typical second-rate Gannett rubbish.

duvy,

Nothing is confirmed as of yet, but Mark Cuban has stated that HDNet will be carrying NHL games this year and there should be an announcement in September regarding the schedule. We'll see what happens. Previous years HDNet NHL broadcasts were top notch so I hope they work something out.

One can only hope there is HD Hockey in our future. I sure missed it. Thanks for the replys. Why didn't KPLR do the Cards in HD today. Any body been playing the 100 yard blitz on ESPN. Could use the code word from the Arizona @ LSU game.

Anybody else seeing glitches on KMOV-DT for the Chiefs/Jets? Probably an intermittent signal issue for me.

Anybody else seeing glitches on KMOV-DT for the Chiefs/Jets? Probably an intermittent signal issue for me.
Occasionally dropping out to black.

That's because Conan is not in 5.1. The center and rears do work when 5.1 program material is presented. Watch Las Vegas or some other Prime Time HD show. The reason why you experience this isse with Conan, Leno and other "Stereo" shows is becasue the 5.1 Pilot is transmitted, but there is simply no audio to send to the 3 extra channels.
West Wing tonight has center but no rears or LFE.

HDNet has gone on record as saying they will broadcast 2-3 games per week in HD. I too am anxiously awaiting for Charter to pony up and come to an agreement with FSMW. If/when they do, I suspect we'll see some Blues in HD there....just not sure when that may happen.

I just wanted to post this little tidbit of info in case it might help someone else out. I live in Lake Saint Louis and have an HDTivo, CM4228 Antenna and preamp. I have been struggling with my signal strength for months. Usually I can get everything except KPLR and WRBU (of course). Well tonight I decided to give it another go in the 100 deg attic and repoint. My goal was to get KPLR in also, before the Smallville season starts. No matter how hard I tried, it was a no go without losing the other channels.

Then I decided to try something a EE friend suggested. I had bought some regular antenna wire but was hesitant to put it in place between the preamp and the antenna because it looked difficult to strip, and was going to take some time in the attic to do. Also, in my mind the 18ga or so speaker wire I was using with nice crimp on spades for connectors was surely better, right?

Wrong. I put that pain in the ass antenna wire in and to my suprise, I am getting all the stations. I can even get a 40 or signal on WRBU.

Yes, same here. Beyond lame to just ignore with no explanation. And since I lost WICS-DT out of Springfield to ABC, I have no choice but to put up with KSDK-DT's garbage again.

After several e-mail complaints, I was actually contacted by a KSDK Engineer a few months back regarding this issue. He asked me for help, which I gladly obliged. He made a few changes and I would report back the results the following day. Most changes were indistinguishable, but one day, I thought he had it perfect and I reported this to him. Well, about 2 days later, he wrote to me stating that he had to fall back on the old, incorrect settings due to numerous call-in complaints from other viewers.

I have no idea what those complaints were, as it sounded perfect on my system for those 2 days. It seems that they would rather not mess with the settings at this point......even though something is obviously wrong.

Wuench,
I just checked out your HT pics...Nice! I too am in LSL, what area do live?

Hello, I've been away from the forum for several days. ESPN 2 finally on D***TV. That's great. I've had D***TV for 2 years now and its about time to get a new channel. Does anyone know about any other channels to be coming?

Did anyone else notice that the games on Fox didn't look as good as the Colt's game on ESPN tonight. FWIW, I was watching Fox via OTA and ESPM via D*.

I didn't see the ESPN game tonight, however, I thought the Seahawks/Jags game on Fox looked like crud. (Cable and OTA looked the same.) I thought the Rams game looked better but not spectacular. (The picture, not the game. Special Teams....DOH!)

I didn't see the ESPN game tonight, however, I thought the Seahawks/Jags game on Fox looked like crud. (Cable and OTA looked the same.) I thought the Rams game looked better but not spectacular. (The picture, not the game. Special Teams....DOH!)

I'd assume that FOX was pulling one of their "FOX Widescreen" telecasts with the Seahawks/Jags game. Maybe they had one HD camera there, but the vast majority of the shots seemed to be SD. And the camera they used for zoomed out replays seemed to have the clarity of a low quality color TV from the 1960's.

At any rate, I'd like to know where I can purchase the same or similar f connectors that the cable company uses. They are very solid looking with a blue band on the bottom and for the life of me, I can't figure out how you could crimp it onto the cable. Are they just compression fittings that you push on and you're done?

Those are water-tight fittings. I've used them, and they ARE really nice. There is a device you'll need to connect them, not to mention a bit of elbow grease. I'll check on the brand. I know we get them in baggies, about 25 to a bag or so.

-Hanjke

Such was the case all last season, too. The ESPN Sunday night game (and ABC Monday night game) looked MUCH better than the Fox Sunday afternoon games every week. The Disney/ABC/ESPN crews must be doing something right.......

[QUOTE=apocalypso]....i also saw it last nigth during th O.C. QUOTE]

At least last time you mentioned OC, you blamed it on your wife watching it!

-Hanjke

I do have an issue that I haven't been able to solve yet, however. Since I'm trying to distribute what is on the main tv to all other tv's in the house, I used the composite out on the moxi to go to line in on our vcr. As long as 480i is checked in the HDTV setup on the moxi, I get video to the other televisions EXCEPT when I'm on an HD channel. At that point, I get a blue screen. (I also have 1080i and 720p checked.) The E* 811 receiver I have now will downconvert all HD programming to 480i and send it through the composite video out port.

The 1080i signal can't be processed by your VCR, and the MOXI won't downconvert it.

-Hanjke

Those are water-tight fittings. I've used them, and they ARE really nice. There is a device you'll need to connect them, not to mention a bit of elbow grease. I'll check on the brand. I know we get them in baggies, about 25 to a bag or so.

-Hanjke

Manufacturer- THOMAS & BETTS
"Snap N Seal"
Model # SNS1P6

-Hanjke

I'd assume that FOX was pulling one of their "FOX Widescreen" telecasts with the Seahawks/Jags game. Maybe they had one HD camera there, but the vast majority of the shots seemed to be SD. And the camera they used for zoomed out replays seemed to have the clarity of a low quality color TV from the 1960's.


I go by what DirecTV is broadcasting as its HD Games. The Seattle game was not on their schedule so it must have been one of their widescreen games.

Hello, I've been away from the forum for several days. ESPN 2 finally on D***TV. That's great. I've had D***TV for 2 years now and its about time to get a new channel. Does anyone know about any other channels to be coming?

Probably not any more soon. Supposedly they're hitting the wall in bandwidth and transponder space. They're rolling out the new MPEG-4 boxes which will allow HD locals. (St. Louis is in the second group of twelve: we'll probably get it spring 2006.)

I could see D* "forcing" HD users to convert to the new MPEG-4 boxes sometime next year by make some national channels only available with an MPEG-4 box.

Did anyone else notice that the games on Fox didn't look as good as the Colt's game on ESPN tonight. FWIW, I was watching Fox via OTA and ESPM via D*.

ESPN games always look spectacular. On the otherhand, many of the games yesterday looked like crap on D*. The Denver at Miami game looked especially bad, and the audio was terrible. It sounded like I had a bug zapper in the room. Every few seconds I could hear a popping sound out of any one of my speakers. It was like I had 5.1 bug zappers in the room.

Scott

Manufacturer- THOMAS & BETTS
"Snap N Seal"
Model # SNS1P6

-Hanjke


These?

http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/snapnseal.pdf

This is just speculating, but I'm wondering if the problems that showed up on 30-1 a couple of days ago was the result of work being done on the system....maybe the install of the 5.1 equipment??

These?

http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/snapnseal.pdf

That's them! Thanks to you and hanjke for the heads up!

Sorry...not working on 5.1 yet. The problem is an encoder that goes stupid then reboots all on it's own which takes about 5 minutes. Waiting for a repalcement.
Jim




This is just speculating, but I'm wondering if the problems that showed up on 30-1 a couple of days ago was the result of work being done on the system....maybe the install of the 5.1 equipment??

Manufacturer- THOMAS & BETTS
"Snap N Seal"
Model # SNS1P6

-Hanjke

this device that you speak of hanjke DO YOU OWN ONE?


and yes i do like the OC I am no longer ashamed to admit it.

and yes i do like the OC I am no longer ashamed to admit it.

As long as you are coming out of the closet....I too like the OC

This is just speculating, but I'm wondering if the problems that showed up on 30-1 a couple of days ago was the result of work being done on the system....maybe the install of the 5.1 equipment??

Sorry...not working on 5.1 yet.

So channel 30 is supposed to be upgraded? It sounds like you work there, WRacer?

Do we know when this is supposed to happen? Sorry if something has been mentioned, but I haven't had time to look through 250 pages. :D

DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR,

We have very strict rules here. We expect every member to read all 251 pages of vital information, memorize it, and take bi-annual tests on the information. To be an advanced member you need to have the first 200 pages tattooed on unmentionable places. Please send photographic proof of these said tattoos to Doug.




[welcome aboard!]

abc,

Too funny. :D

Dr. Pepper,

WRacer (Jim) is the chief engineer at KDNL and some of us were lucky enough to actually meet him at the first St. Louis AVS in-the-flesh gathering that was hosted by Gregg (STL Eng), his counterpart at KPLR. This was a few years ago now, and both Jim and Greg have participated here on AVS before that meeting and since then.

It's also worth mentioning that both Gregg and Jim have wider roles outside the St. Louis stations where they're based. Gregg has additional responsibilities for other Tribune Company TV stations (KPLR is owned by Tribune) and Jim is in the same situation for Sinclair Broadcasting, which owns KDNL and many other stations around the country. As a result of these workloads, they may not always be able to respond immediately to a question or issue here, but they're both conscientious about following up whenever they can.

We're very fortunate that they check in here regularly. Both are really good guys who have done great work in getting HD broadcasting up and running at their stations/companies. It's too bad we don't see the same enthusiasm and professionalism from other stations here.

It would probably help if we were advertisers instead of just viewers. :rolleyes:

Dr. Pepper, if you've only recently discovered this thread, I'd encourage you to read the first three messages on the very first page of the St. Louis discussion. There's some basic information there that may fill in some of the gaps if you're just working your way up the OTA and HD learning curve. It's also worth noting that you can search the thread by using the "Search This Thread" search box at the top of each page -- that might help you find answers to some questions or fill in the blanks in ongoing discussions.

None of that is meant to discourage you from asking questions that may have already been asked. Better to have you adding to the discussion by jumping in than just sitting on the sidelines.

Finally, it's worth noting that you can direct friends or colleagues who may be interested in the discussions here by passing on the URL www.stlhdtv.info, which is a shortcut method for getting here.

Welcome...