St. Louis, MO - HDTV *OLD* [Text View] - Page 31

DroptheRemote

09-13-05, 03:56 PM

Can HD Broadcasting Survive Multicasting?

There's an interesting article in this month's The Bridge newsletter.

The Bridge primary audience is the cable and satellite television industries, but the subject of this month's newsletter is OTA broadcasters and how they may use digital multicast to go more directly head to head with cable and satellite.

Revenge of the Local Nets?

Here's an abstract of the article, and a few choice excerpts:

___________________________________________________

Watching Your Back
The Advance of the Broadcasters

by Evie Haskell

You knew they'd be coming. With the tower placement wars in the past; the infrastructure massively upgraded; and the great majority of the nation's households in sight of digital over-the-air signals...the digitally enabled broadcasters are coming.

The odds are very, very good that they're in your neighborhood now armed with high-def signal, multiple channels and -- in the not too distant future -- pay TV offerings.
___________________________________________________

Other excerpts from the article:

* "More than 95 percent of US households can receive a signal from a broadcaster that is HD-capable," notes Dave Cechota, direct of data product development at Decisionmark Corp., a leading online software and information provider to the broadcast industry.

* While high-definition is the best known, and most widely deployed, benefit of digital broadcast, Cechota notes that multicast -- the broadcaster's ability to use its digital spectrum for more than one signal -- is rapidly gaining ground.

"A year ago, 30 percent of live (digital broadcast) stations were multicasting,' Cechota says. Now 42 percent are multicasting."

* While PBS stations have led the vanguard in multicasting, Cechota notes that "the trend is toward more and more commercial stations doing that."

* "Most of the stations do weather with multicast," Cechota says. "But also there are local sporting events and news shows. Some stations rebroadcast their news, in some cases multiple times per day."

* One key example of the new digital local services is NBC's Weather Plus, announced late last year. In a joint venture with NBC affiliates, the service offers 24/7 weather and related local community information -- and, interestingly, it has rivaled the venerable Weather Channel both in popularity and, more recently, in coverage of Hurricane Katrina.

* Currently, Cechota reports, the average multicast station carries 2.8 digital channels. However, he notes, "in terms of how that may change over time, we think the capacity maximum is six channels and some (broadcast stations) already do have six sub channels."

* For cable and satellite operators, the spectre of multicast must-carry eating ravenously at their signals. Simple math tells you that if you figure six channels per digital broadcaster, with 1,468 current live broadcasters, that could add up to 8,808 channels to be carried nationwide. Or 1,762 percent of the current typical 500-channel service.

* The potential of such a scenario is already well under way in the United Kingdom, where the Freeview system has quickly amassed 6 million viewers. To be sure, with 30 digital video channel service and 20 digital radio stations, the service itself is free, but the set-up equipment cost approximately $110 and the Freeview digital broadcast channels are successfully draining ad dollars and viewers away from U.K. giant BSkyB.

* And in the US? "I think paid multicast channels are an extremely viable business model in the future," says Cechota. While broadcasters today are working toward FCC compliance with FCC digital mandates, "the next phase that we believe will happen is that broadcasters will be more competitive with cable and satellite." Cechota says.
_______________________

You can subscribe to The Bridge newsletter, or other related publications here. (http://www.mbc-thebridge.com/subscribe.cfm)

StockInv

09-13-05, 06:21 PM

If you currently have the 9012D Moxi, what's the extra cost to upgrade to the Moxi Mate 9022D?

Robert Simandl

09-13-05, 06:22 PM

DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR,

We have very strict rules here. We expect every member to read all 251 pages of vital information, memorize it, and take bi-annual tests on the information. To be an advanced member you need to have the first 200 pages tattooed on unmentionable places. Please send photographic proof of these said tattoos to Doug.

And people asked me why I changed my title to "HDT-Vidiot"................

:D

abcward

09-13-05, 07:07 PM

If you currently have the 9012D Moxi, what's the extra cost to upgrade to the Moxi Mate 9022D?

I don't believe anyone has received pricing in writing on this, but if I remember right, the 9022D/Mate is $12.99 for the receivers where the old 9012D was $9.99.

However, my bill will actually be LOWER than before since I returned a digital receiver too when they installed the new receivers. This is because the MoxiMate takes the place of that receiver. Having 2x the harddrive space, moxi functions on two televisions and paying less? Aw yea....

PWSHER

09-13-05, 08:29 PM

I don't believe anyone has received pricing in writing on this, but if I remember right, the 9022D/Mate is $12.99 for the receivers where the old 9012D was $9.99.

However, my bill will actually be LOWER than before since I returned a digital receiver too when they installed the new receivers. This is because the MoxiMate takes the place of that receiver. Having 2x the harddrive space, moxi functions on two televisions and paying less? Aw yea....

The pricing is quite complicated....but from what the Charter CSR told me it should be about $8.00/month to go from the Moxi to Moxi mate.

Some of us have called and changed our plans by physically signing a two year contract. You get the $71 biggest package with all channels includding ALL premium channels for $47.99. The money I saved on this has paid for my Moxi and it's Mate!!!

pwsher

jedi35

09-14-05, 01:38 AM

Kudos for the season openers of Bones on Fox and Supernatural on WB. Awesome hd pictures, and killer 5.1 sound to go with it. The House opener is waiting on my Dish 942 for later today. The WB really cranked out some spectacular low bass to go with the creepy images of Supernatural. Subwoofers, look out!!

turls

09-14-05, 01:57 AM

After several e-mail complaints, I was actually contacted by a KSDK Engineer a few months back regarding this issue. He asked me for help, which I gladly obliged. He made a few changes and I would report back the results the following day. Most changes were indistinguishable, but one day, I thought he had it perfect and I reported this to him. Well, about 2 days later, he wrote to me stating that he had to fall back on the old, incorrect settings due to numerous call-in complaints from other viewers.

I have no idea what those complaints were, as it sounded perfect on my system for those 2 days. It seems that they would rather not mess with the settings at this point......even though something is obviously wrong.

Wow, thanks for reporting that. I guess this means if everybody from this forum calls or e-mails complaints they will put it back to being right? Did he go into specifics about what everybody else was complaining about? Because unless all those idiots only watch KSDK-DT, whatever HT setup they have would be messed up on every other channel since every other channel does it RIGHT.

Unbelievable. I think there are people with enough influence on this forum that we could get this fixed if we really want to and drown out the morons who have no idea what they are talking about (unless that was just a cop-out).

DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR

09-14-05, 06:24 AM

Thanks to all for the welcome! :) Sorry abcward, I didn't see that in the rules when I registered. :eek: Doug, thanks for filling me in. I did read the first page of the thread and took a look at your maps of the towers -- nice. :) jedi, thanks for the 5.1 info. I found the post a couple pages back with WRacer's responses. Alias is also what I'd like to hear in 5.1. :D I haven't watched Lost...

I think I understand HD stuff pretty well, just don't have any hands-on experience with it yet (only all of what I've read, which is a lot ;)). I'm trying to see if D* will give us a deal on 2 H10s so I can try getting some OTA digital here. We don't have an HDTV yet, just a 53" Sony XBR from '97 (no component inputs :(), but I figure OTA digital should be a good improvement, if I can receive it, over DirecTV's SD stuff.

I'm between Warrenton and Washington, about 45 miles from the towers. There's an antenna in the attic (above 2nd story) from before D* carried the locals. It's a Radio Shack one -- like 120" (mostly the VHF part, of course), "90-mile" UHF range I think. I hope it would work, but it might be off by 15 degrees or more (dunno how directional it is and how many degrees matter), so I guess I'll want to reposition it. Channel 2 and 5 come in about as good as can be now -- very low noise, from 25-30 feet away, it almost looks like sat. But I know their digital channels are UHF, so I guess that doesn't mean much.

I haven't seen anything that attempts to say about how much analog signal corresponds with a "strong enough" digital one, if there is such a thing. Now, for example, analog channel 11 and 30 are about the same -- perfect sound, but heavy snow, can hardly see a picture (no ghosting of it though), wouldn't want to watch them. But, like I said, the antenna is not optimally aimed, AFAIK. Although 46 comes in pretty well, and it's the most off-axis, so I don't know. Also, junky RG-59 was used on the antenna, so I'd try to at least replace it with RG-6 down to the basement. Not fun. :(

Kudos for the season openers of Bones on Fox and Supernatural on WB. Awesome hd pictures, and killer 5.1 sound to go with it. The House opener is waiting on my Dish 942 for later today. The WB really cranked out some spectacular low bass to go with the creepy images of Supernatural. Subwoofers, look out!!

Sweet! Bass! :D :eek: I checked out Supernatural, and the 2 channel sound was totally flat when it should've been dynamic.

I'm curious if network broadcasts of movies in 5.1 sound as good as the DVD? I never want to watch anything in dynamic-range-compressed stereo. :mad:

Robert Simandl

09-14-05, 07:29 AM

Of the three new shows I've seen (Prison Break, Bones, Supernatural), I'll give the nod to Supernatural as the best so far. Wow! This show fills a void that's been empty since Buffy the Vampire slayer and Angel left the air!

During that brief time that KSDK was turning the 5.1 flags off during Leno (I must have blinked 'cause I missed it), maybe they were screwing up and also turning off the 5.1 flags during prime time? Maybe someone there doesn't know the 5.1 has to be ON during prime time and OFF during Leno and Conan....? :rolleyes:

DroptheRemote

09-14-05, 08:53 AM

Dr. Pepper,

FWIW, if you're at all interested in having a DVR, be aware that DirecTV is offering special deals on HD TiVo to existing subscribers (and also to selected new subs). You need to call DirecTV, tell them you're thinking seriously of switching to cable because you can rent, rather than buy, a DVR. If you get through to the right retention rep, you should be able to get a new HD TiVo for $299, though some of the difference between the current list of $499 and $299 might be programming credits.

Of course, the downside is that DirecTV will be moving to MPEG-4 at some point, and the HD TiVo won't be able to pick up MPEG-4 broadcasts and there's no current scope for a retrofit. This isn't likely to be a near-term issue, and DirecTV is likely to offer some sort of cheap or free upgrade when this does come into play. In case you missed it, DirecTV is planning to provide free MPEG-4 receiver upgrades to HD customers requiring them at no charge, but with an added 2-year contract commitment (with the maximum buyout of something like $200 or $250).

From your location, directionality likely won't be a huge issue, though you may still find slight repositioning will help you pull in a stronger digital signal. If you have to make compromises, be sure to turn away from WRBU, since that station can't even handle HD passthrough from the UPN network and there's no immediate prospect this will change.

No idea how to equate a certain level of analog reception to digital. With digital, you either get the signal or don't, while analog reception deteriorates gracefully as distance from the source signal increases. With digital, this is referred to as "the cliff effect," because at some distance the signal "falls off the cliff" and can't be detected. I suspect that you'd probably find that in certain weather/atmospheric conditions that you get a perfect signal, and other times you get it intermittently or not at all. But the bigger, long-range antenna you're using should increase your chances of good reception.

"Lost" is one of the best shows on television, and is especially impressive in HD. Clearly the show's producers were thinking about HD when they made certain decisions about how the show would look (cast, location, shot composition). CSI is another example of a show that clearly was thinking about HD from the very start. No doubt there are others, but those are two of the better examples.

If a station is 5.1-capable and the program (series or movie) includes a 5.1 soundtrack, it should be as good as the DVD 5.1, assuming they are using the same mixes. The main issue today is stations that haven't been able to install the hardware necessary to decode 5.1 or the lack of broadcast material that includes a 5.1 soundtrack.

And then there are those stations that don't know their collective ass from their elbow and also have no apparent way of monitoring surround sound themselves, which is lame and second-rate. Good morning, KSDK. :p

Fastmans

09-14-05, 09:44 AM

abcward

09-14-05, 10:06 AM

Not to light any fires or start any wars here, but would any of you drop E* and go to Charter at this point. I have been waiting for a better deal on the 942, but I have been waiting for a long time, and that MOXI+MATE is here. It sounds like Charter isnt that bad once it is installed properly. Programming isnt much different with the excepion of the VOOM package (reruns.)
Thanks
Fastman

Fastmans,

Personally I think there is no perfect solution when it comes to the choice of D*, E* or Charter. I believe each person needs to weigh the pro's and con's of each provider and make the decision on what is important to him.

I was a happy E* customer until about 3 years ago when I moved and was unable to get DSL at my new house. That caused me to switch from SWB to Charter for internet and eventually add television to that account. Since then, I have been a fairly satisfied Charter customer. Sure I have my days when I want to disconnect but the same can be said for any other service I pay for. I seriously consider heading to D* a few times a year, but for me, when I do a side-by-side comparision, the pricing doesn't make sense for me. But that obviously is not the case for other people.

It is not unreasonable for you to consider switching to Charter. It is also not unreasonable for your next-door neighbor to switch from Charter to D*.

wmschultz

09-14-05, 03:09 PM

DanGraney

09-14-05, 03:45 PM

I'm not going to slam Charter, because I have never dealt with them. But I also can not switch to Charter without losing significant $$.

My hardware investment in DirecTV is 2 HD-Tivo's, 1 Zenith HD Reciever, 2 SD-Tivos, and 3 SD Receivers.

I also enjoy the programming and I have never had a problem with their customer service. I've been a customer for almost 10 years I think.

I also have SBC as my DSL provider and have had that for over 5 years so something would have to go tragically wrong for me to switch to Charter.

As far as my programming choices go:

I have the Locals package, the HD package, Sunday ticket with Superfan, and I typically get the Center Ice package.

The only other HD channel I wish I had at this time is TNT.

i actually just made the switch from directv (sony sat tivo) to charter and it was a very reluctant switch. i had yet to upgrade my dish to hd, so it really was a money saver (i signed up for a package that includes hi-speed internet, so i got rid of speakeasy). my experiences with directv and speakeasy were fantastic, and i can't say enough about their customer service. so far, charter experience has been strained... but, thanks to the input of the folks in this discussion group, that looks to turn around with the install of moxi/mate in a little over a week.

now, in the long run, will i be happy? well, that remains to be seen...

Fastmans

09-14-05, 09:51 PM

WinstonSmith

09-14-05, 10:53 PM

Personally, I can't stand the thought of paying a monthly fee for the equipment.

kugumby

09-15-05, 12:32 AM

It just bugs me that they are trying to get $700 for hardware that should be a doorstop in a couple of years. I have been offered it for $250 lease, but I still think that is steep, and I still wont own the doorstop. I do think E* has the best HD programming at the moment. Im sure if they offered it for $100 (my personal price point) I would jump on it. Its a shame that Charter has the equipment for a reasonable price.

I just made the test switch, but am going to cancel my Charter account and stay with E* due to the Moxi box being unable to downconvert HD programming for video distribution. (Long story.) I will say that I thought the HD content looked pretty good compared to E* and the VOD is pretty cool. It's a roll of the dice really between the three. I'm just going to be peeved if Charter rolls out FSN-HD before E* does.

I called E* yesterday just to see if they'd give me the $250 deal and they're not offering the 942 for lease. Anyone here recording HD using an HTPC?

davesalaman

09-15-05, 01:06 AM

Sorry...not working on 5.1 yet. The problem is an encoder that goes stupid then reboots all on it's own which takes about 5 minutes. Waiting for a repalcement.
Jim
Hi Jim,

Is this the Harmonic encoder you're replacing ?

Joseph Clark

09-15-05, 01:06 AM

I just made the test switch, but am going to cancel my Charter account and stay with E* due to the Moxi box being unable to downconvert HD programming for video distribution. (Long story.) I will say that I thought the HD content looked pretty good compared to E* and the VOD is pretty cool. It's a roll of the dice really between the three. I'm just going to be peeved if Charter rolls out FSN-HD before E* does.

I called E* yesterday just to see if they'd give me the $250 deal and they're not offering the 942 for lease. Anyone here recording HD using an HTPC?

Yes, I'm pretty big into doing that. I have three MyHD systems and a modified Dish 6000, so I can record all the local OTA HD as well as Dish Network HD. It looks as though I'll be able to record OTA HD for quite some time, but it's probably only a matter of time before they close the door on the way a few of us have of recording satellite right now.

When they go to MPEG4, I expect to be able to continue to record for a little while, but eventually my Dish 6000 won't work any more. It's a similar scenario to what happened a while back, when some of the first Dish subscribers could record via a Dish receiver out to D-VHS. They pulled the plug on that. I'll enjoy it for as long as I can. For the time being, I'm collecting some of the shows I really enjoy - Rick Steve's, Smart Travels, lots of great documentaries from Discovery and the Voom channels, movies from HBO and Showtime.

OK, here's a statement that may be a little less true for me right now than it was a few years back, but for a quite some time I've enjoyed broadcast television more than the movies. This from a guy who used to go to just about every movie that hit town. That's less true than it used to be, because of reality TV, but I still enjoy episodic TV more than the movies that are being made these days. That's the reason I have three cards that allow me to record freely any HD show I like and save it to DVD.

The HD capture cards like MyHD and Fusion are great ways of collecting HD versions of the shows you like. I saw that the fourth season of Smallville is out on DVD soon. Irrelevant to me because I already have all four seasons in HD and they're far superior to the DVDs. They cost me about 80 cents an episode to save. I have to work a little to edit out commercials, but it's worth it to have them in HD.

The good thing about HTPC's is the flexibility they give you to collect and edit HD. Things can get a little hairy sometimes, but all in all it's a pretty easy process. I helped a friend set up a MyHD system, and he's about as computer illiterate as they come. Outside a few initial questions he's had no trouble learing how to record, edit and archive HD shows to DVD. If you are already the least computer literate, it's a piece of cake.

aspec2

09-15-05, 03:29 AM

So I can't sleep and am surfing. Charter channel 775 DHDTV.....Discovery HD? 779 MAX HD...Wahoo.

Walt

DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR

09-15-05, 05:29 AM

Doug, thanks for the thorough post again. :) Yep, I've seen the posts about the HD TiVos, but I'm not really interested in that... We just got an SD TiVo for my dad to use last month (right after the rebate started). And after playing with it, I don't really like it compared to our 2 stand-alone Pioneer DVRs (1 w/ HDD). The guide is slow, and I want the editing features! ;) I see some people here have both DVRs together, but I can't/won't do that. Unfortunately, I won't be able to record 5.1 -- if the DVRs would just have digital audio inputs! :(

I called retention for the 2nd time last night, and mentioned cable (even though it's not available here)... They said they'd give us an H10 for free and a second for $99. Didn't order yet... She said it would include free installation (I thought they just shipped them), and I said we didn't need a dish or anything (still have a round one, OK for no HD pack). But she said they still need to "install" the receivers? I wonder if they HAVE to do it (so it's "right!" :rolleyes: ), or if the installer could just leave them for me. The best part is setting things up yourself. :D

BTW, is there anyone viewing this thread that hasn't seen my H10 question (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=580027) and could give me an answer about its Autotune behavior? :confused:

Doug, you said to aim away from WRBU -- do you mean its signal could somehow cause problems with other channels??

I know about the "cliff effect" and assume that it behaves pretty much like a sat. signal. :) I was just wondering with a signal like the current analog 30 I'm getting (lots of snow, fine audio [stereo-indicated], no ghosting), if that RF channel became digital (thus I'd have the same RF signal [strength] as now), would it come in? I guess I won't know until I get a tuner. :) I've heard that digital doesn't need as much signal... :confused:

Also, is there anything different I should see right now if tune the TV to the RF channel of a digital broadcast (43 for KTVI, etc.) -- weird sound, visuals, etc. to indicate that some digital "garbage" (for analog) is being received? Hopefully not, because I tried it for all the St. Louis stations and it's the same as a channel with nothing on it.

What's the record distance on the forum for receiving St. Louis' OTA signals? :)

duihlein

09-15-05, 07:57 AM

Yes, I'm pretty big into doing that. I have three MyHD systems and a modified Dish 6000, so I can record all the local OTA HD as well as Dish Network HD. It looks as though I'll be able to record OTA HD for quite some time, but it's probably only a matter of time before they close the door on the way a few of us have of recording satellite right now.

When they go to MPEG4, I expect to be able to continue to record for a little while, but eventually my Dish 6000 won't work any more. It's a similar scenario to what happened a while back, when some of the first Dish subscribers could record via a Dish receiver out to D-VHS. They pulled the plug on that. I'll enjoy it for as long as I can. For the time being, I'm collecting some of the shows I really enjoy - Rick Steve's, Smart Travels, lots of great documentaries from Discovery and the Voom channels, movies from HBO and Showtime.

OK, here's a statement that may be a little less true for me right now than it was a few years back, but for a quite some time I've enjoyed broadcast television more than the movies. This from a guy who used to go to just about every movie that hit town. That's less true than it used to be, because of reality TV, but I still enjoy episodic TV more than the movies that are being made these days. That's the reason I have three cards that allow me to record freely any HD show I like and save it to DVD.

The HD capture cards like MyHD and Fusion are great ways of collecting HD versions of the shows you like. I saw that the fourth season of Smallville is out on DVD soon. Irrelevant to me because I already have all four seasons in HD and they're far superior to the DVDs. They cost me about 80 cents an episode to save. I have to work a little to edit out commercials, but it's worth it to have them in HD.

The good thing about HTPC's is the flexibility they give you to collect and edit HD. Things can get a little hairy sometimes, but all in all it's a pretty easy process. I helped a friend set up a MyHD system, and he's about as computer illiterate as they come. Outside a few initial questions he's had no trouble learing how to record, edit and archive HD shows to DVD. If you are already the least computer literate, it's a piece of cake.

Joseph,
I currently have a HiPix to supplement my DVR921, I'm looking into adding Media Portal for a front end and a second HD tuner card. Do you have any multi-tuner PC's for HD or do you have 3 seperate systems? I'd like to have 1 system with 2 HD cards and a simple front end.

It's been over a year since I've done anything with my HTPC, perhaps it's time to upgrade...

Dave

phatty

09-15-05, 08:03 AM

So I can't sleep and am surfing. Charter channel 775 DHDTV.....Discovery HD? 779 MAX HD...Wahoo.

Walt

So I take it they all coming in crystal clear? Before I went to bed last night WB HD was coming in hella pixelated and unable to watch it. Wake up today and WB HD, Cinemax HD & PBS HD are all doing the same pixelating making those channels impossible to watch. Every other HD and normal channel that I scanned through is coming in fine.

Phatty

Robert Simandl

09-15-05, 08:11 AM

Joseph,
I currently have a HiPix to supplement my DVR921, I'm looking into adding Media Portal for a front end and a second HD tuner card. Do you have any multi-tuner PC's for HD or do you have 3 seperate systems? I'd like to have 1 system with 2 HD cards and a simple front end.

The Media Portal people claim they actually put SEVEN tuners into one HTPC (two Hauppauge 550's with dual tuner and three regular Hauppauge cards) and had Media Portal recording all seven different streams at the same time with no problem.

moman19

09-15-05, 08:13 AM

Wow, thanks for reporting that. I guess this means if everybody from this forum calls or e-mails complaints they will put it back to being right? Did he go into specifics about what everybody else was complaining about? Because unless all those idiots only watch KSDK-DT, whatever HT setup they have would be messed up on every other channel since every other channel does it RIGHT.

Unbelievable. I think there are people with enough influence on this forum that we could get this fixed if we really want to and drown out the morons who have no idea what they are talking about (unless that was just a cop-out).

I tried and tried, but he never responded to that question. So I don't have a clue as to how many complaints rolled in or what the issue was. It was clearly fixed (for me, anyway) for one or maybe two nights, then back to what it is today.

I even pointed him to this web site and encouraged him to check us out. No idea if he ever visited.....I doubt it.

Too bad.

duihlein

09-15-05, 08:47 AM

The Media Portal people claim they actually put SEVEN tuners into one HTPC (two Hauppauge 550's with dual tuner and three regular Hauppauge cards) and had Media Portal recording all seven different streams at the same time with no problem.

I guess I should have stated my question differently. I have no interest in analog recording, just HD. I know the HiPix had hardware issues that limit me to 1 per PC. I'm trying to determine if some of the newer HD cards will support multiple cards in a single PC and of those which integrate well with Media Portal. From what I've read I should be looking for cards with BDA support.

abcward

09-15-05, 08:48 AM

So I take it they all coming in crystal clear? Before I went to bed last night WB HD was coming in hella pixelated and unable to watch it. Wake up today and WB HD, Cinemax HD & PBS HD are all doing the same pixelating making those channels impossible to watch. Every other HD and normal channel that I scanned through is coming in fine.

Phatty

These new HD channels are coming in fine for me...no pixelation at all.

GlendaleHDTV

09-15-05, 09:12 AM

These new HD channels are coming in fine for me...no pixelation at all.

Same here in the brief time I checked it out before leaving for work.

wilkemp

09-15-05, 09:15 AM

Coming in fine for me as well, nice to see Charter make good on a promise.

PWSHER

09-15-05, 09:16 AM

These new HD channels are coming in fine for me...no pixelation at all.

Nice to get the new channels but why doesn't any of the other HD channels look as good as HDnet? No pixalation but so far I am a little disappointed at the picture quality of these new "ND" stations.

kugumby

09-15-05, 09:56 AM

hanjke

09-15-05, 11:05 AM

I just made the test switch, but am going to cancel my Charter account and stay with E* due to the Moxi box being unable to downconvert HD programming for video distribution.

FWIW- The Moxi Mate (from what I've read here) downconverts the HD signal.

-Hanjke

hanjke

09-15-05, 11:08 AM

Nice to get the new channels but why doesn't any of the other HD channels look as good as HDnet? No pixalation but so far I am a little disappointed at the picture quality of these new "ND" stations.

It all depends on the programming being offered. HDNet is awesome because Mark Cuban does 1080i shooting, editing and broadcasting. Some shows are shot on film and converted, some are upconverted, etc. The programming on DHDTheater this morning looked great on my set.

I wanted to call in sick today to watch all the new offerings...

-Hanjke

WRacer

09-15-05, 12:00 PM

Hi Jim,

Is this the Harmonic encoder you're replacing ?

Yes, we're replacing the MV-400 with the new and improved MV-450 (I hope).
Jim

Joseph Clark

09-15-05, 01:58 PM

Joseph,
I currently have a HiPix to supplement my DVR921, I'm looking into adding Media Portal for a front end and a second HD tuner card. Do you have any multi-tuner PC's for HD or do you have 3 seperate systems? I'd like to have 1 system with 2 HD cards and a simple front end.

It's been over a year since I've done anything with my HTPC, perhaps it's time to upgrade...

Dave

I have three separate systems, but I've read that MyHD and Fusion cards play nice together in one system. As to one simple front end, I don't think that's feasible right now with those two together. There's a lot more info on this over in the HTPC section.

Dyaus

09-15-05, 02:00 PM

djsmokyc

09-15-05, 02:04 PM

kugumby

09-15-05, 02:23 PM

FWIW- The Moxi Mate (from what I've read here) downconverts the HD signal.

Yeah, it does. Like I said, it's a long story. :rolleyes:

As far as the Colts game goes this weekend, someone posted a few pages back the names of some local watering holes that offer HD programming. You might want to check that out.

Joseph Clark

09-15-05, 02:24 PM

Joseph, Thanks for the heads up on recording Dish with the HTPC. We can take this discussion off the forum or leave it on, I'll leave that up to the moderator, but some people that are around here may benefit from some very general questions.

I currently have an 811 & 508 receiver. I'd like to replace the 508 with something that will give me the ability to record and timeshift SD & HD programming whether it's on the Dish or OTA. I am computer literate, (I manage the computers at my office) but I've not been able to find a solid answer by trolling in the HTPC area of AVS or in the forum at Meedio's site if it's possible to do this until you verified it. So, my general questions are these:

-If I already have a P4-1.8Ghz, 512mb ram, Win2k Pro computer, what do I need to be able to do what I've asked above on this computer?
(Things I know: HD tuner card, 250gb+ hard drive, probably more ram, IR blaster for remote control)
(Things I don't know: front end software? OS? 5.1 sound card? What HD tuner card?) I know that asking what kind of tuner card you should get is kind of like asking what kind of car to buy, but you already have one that works so we'll start there.

-Do you know anything about Meedio as a front end? I stumbled across it the other day while researching. They seem to have some Dish capabilities. They support DVB-S & DVB-T. (Stupid question: What do those stand for? I know they are related to satellite broadcasting.)

-I assume that whatever front end you use is the one that produces the EPG. Is that correct? Meedio is using XMLTV listings.

-This setup should be no harder to use than the PVR functions on the Dish, otherwise I'll get an earful from the wife ;) (I do have a Pronto remote so I can at least make that part look the same.)

-When MPEG4 hits, wouldn't you just have to replace your tuner card? Maybe it's more complicated than that.

-Bottome line, if upgrading my computer is going to cost $500-$700, I may as well just get the 942 receiver.

Thanks in advance. Any help you can give on the subject is greatly appreciated.

Let's start with the last part first - yes, you'll have to spend more than $500-$700 to do ALL this, and it won't be as easy for the wife. But, if you just want to record OTA, not Dish, then it's less costly and pretty easy, although still not quite as easy as using a Dish 508. The only upgrading you'd need to do for OTA recording and archiving is an HD card, hard drive and DVD burner. You could probably add that for about $400.

I'd be happy to elaborate, but the value of that probably depends on how important it is to you to archive. If you want ease of use (for the WAF) and you don't intend to archive, then the 942 is far and away the better choice. I have a Dish 921 and it's great (even if it is the still born, resurrected, bastard brother of the 942).

BTW, the moderators shouldn't have a problem with any of this, since it's all perfectly legal. As a matter of fact, I found out about the R5000 Dish recording option from Alan Gouger, who is one of the main men at AVS. He was raving about it before it was even released.

As I said, I'd be happy to elaborate on this, or take it to a PM, if not many are interested here.

tcfila

09-15-05, 03:39 PM

dweebe

09-15-05, 03:43 PM

I have a problem coming up this weekend. I'm a huge Colts fan and CBS isn't carrying their game and are instead showing the NE game. Does anyone know if Charter has an NFL package to allow you to get all the games? Maybe CBS multicasts on Sunday for their games? Does anyone know if I'll be able to catch the game or am I SOL?

St. Louis Sports Zone in Kenrick plaza is about the best place to watch out of town games. The guy that runs the TVs down there on Sundays knows what he's doing and makes sure to have all the Sunday Ticket NFL games running and properly laid out. The only problem is that he won't do HD since problems with the time delay difference between SD and HD. He's got the equipment but just won't put an HD game on, even if you beg him.

Ozzies at Westport, Jacques in downtown are other options. Hooters and Buffalo Wild Wings also have Sunday ticket (all in SD). Most Hooters label each TV as to what games will be shown on each.

Your other option might be Schneithorsts. All their TVs in the bar area are HD and I'm pretty sure they have the Sunday Ticket. I'm just not sure if they subscribed to the HD package.

The sports bar at the Ameristar casino has a bunch of SD monitors and do Sunday Ticket. However the accoustics there are horrible and you can't hear anything. They can't even do the Super Bowl correctly out there.

DanGraney

09-15-05, 03:59 PM

turls

09-15-05, 04:30 PM

The good thing about HTPC's is the flexibility they give you to collect and edit HD. Things can get a little hairy sometimes, but all in all it's a pretty easy process. I helped a friend set up a MyHD system, and he's about as computer illiterate as they come. Outside a few initial questions he's had no trouble learing how to record, edit and archive HD shows to DVD. If you are already the least computer literate, it's a piece of cake.

Except for the fact you are limited to OTA. The problem with D* and E*, especially with the MPEG4 transition for D* that will at least initially break the hacks that currently allow archiving, is that it isn't a complete solution. It sounds like there is more of a future with E* as has been discussed in the last few pages.

Joseph Clark

09-15-05, 05:53 PM

Need some help on DVI.....Just getting ready for when Charter enables it on the Moxi.

What is the difference between DVI I and DVI D? Which one would I need to go from the moxi to my TV? Radio Shack has them for 12.95

DVI I (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1063)

DVI D (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1064&site=search)

Tim

DVI-I is a cable that can carry both digital signals and analog signals. DVI-D is digital only. (DVI-A is analog only, and is therefore almost completely useless.) There are 6 pins in a DVI-I cable that are for the analog signal (essentially a VGA/component signal). That's why a simple DVI to VGA adapter allows you to hook up a DVI output from, say, a computer DVI video card to an analog input on an LCD monitor with only a VGA input. It's simply using those 6 pins. DVI-D uses the rest of the pins to move a pure digital signal from the source to the display. DVI-D cables don't even have the 6 analog pins.

So, if you want to utilize the digital signal, then a DVI-D cable is all you need. Since the Radio Shack cables are the same price, I'd go with the DVI-I, although in practice you probably won't need it.

Joseph Clark

09-15-05, 06:07 PM

Except for the fact you are limited to OTA. The problem with D* and E*, especially with the MPEG4 transition for D* that will at least initially break the hacks that currently allow archiving, is that it isn't a complete solution. It sounds like there is more of a future with E* as has been discussed in the last few pages.

I think Dish is a little more likely to keep its legacy equipment running a little longer than DirecTV, from what I've read. Nothing, however, is for certain. The hacks (like the altogether legal R5000 hack of the Dish 6000) will continue to work as long as Dish transmits its HD signals the way it does today. When MPEG4 hits, they should continue to broadcast the existing channels for a while, until they can transition everyone over to the MPEG4 hardware. When they do that, the Dish 6000, 921, 942, HDTivo's, etc., will be doorstops. What Dish did for their old equipment that could archive out to D-VHS was to offer them some sort of trade-up. I don't know the details. No matter how you slice it, the transition will, once again, take away options we have of watching and saving shows on our terms, not those of the providers.

Gizmo_Gadgethead

09-15-05, 06:12 PM

kugumby

09-15-05, 07:00 PM

BTW, the moderators shouldn't have a problem with any of this, since it's all perfectly legal.

I just meant since it's a little off topic. Thanks for your advice. I'll have to wait and see what goes on in Dish world to determine what to do. If E* would go back to leasing the 942 for the $250 "upgrade" charge, I think I'd go ahead and do that. Since it would be a leased box, the upgrade path to MPEG4 would probably be easier. That $700 is just too much for me to justify at this point.

WinstonSmith

09-15-05, 07:15 PM

KU,

I'm in the same boat you are re: HTPCs.

My fiance just won't be able to handle something w/o a front end, which is why I'm looking at XP MCE computers.

jedi35

09-15-05, 10:05 PM

Wow, I didn't know that Dish has stopped leasing 942s for $250. I have one right now, and was thinking about adding a second one in the future. I guess that "shows to go ya". I liked this option since I didn't have to shell out $700, and Dish will have to upgrade me to mpeg4 when the time comes.

Joseph Clark

09-15-05, 11:28 PM

I just meant since it's a little off topic. Thanks for your advice. I'll have to wait and see what goes on in Dish world to determine what to do. If E* would go back to leasing the 942 for the $250 "upgrade" charge, I think I'd go ahead and do that. Since it would be a leased box, the upgrade path to MPEG4 would probably be easier. That $700 is just too much for me to justify at this point.

Gotcha, I didn't think about this being off topic. I hope the rules for the local threads allow a little more leeway, though. After all, it's a lot more relevant for AVS members in the same area to be sharing things like this. We can get together at one another's houses to show how we've implemented the ideas "borrowed" from AVS.

elgibby

09-15-05, 11:45 PM

How are people getting the Moxi/MoxiMate combination? I'm in Fenton (Imperial office) and have been told that the MoxiMate is still "in the works" and not available at all anywhere! Am I just talking to clueless people at the office? Is it St. Louis only and not surrounding areas?

ding! ding! ding! Yes, clueless people wins.
That was the answer I got the first time I called. The second time, a day later, I signed up for the 9022/mate and I have an appointment for Saturday morning for installation. Woman I work with already has it.
So try again, don't take no for an answer.

skippy_rq

09-16-05, 12:12 AM

My appointment is tomorrow with a very small 8a-Noon install window. Charter really needs to change that aspect of things. 4hrs to wait is nuts.

kugumby

09-16-05, 12:13 AM

I'm in the same boat you are re: HTPCs.
My fiance just won't be able to handle something w/o a front end, which is why I'm looking at XP MCE computers.

Thing is, if I'm going to drop $700+ on an HTPC, why wouldn't I just go with the 942. (If you're an E* sub, that is.) It seems like the HTPC is stilll so much in it's infancy, even though it's been around for a while, that it isn't worth the brain damage to get one set up when you could spend the same or less on a 942. Accepting that they'll both be boat anchors when MPEG4 is rolled out completely.

Granted, you can also use the HTPC as a media server. Actually the idea of storing all of my DVD's in one place with instant access is very appealing. That useage is still being worked out too though. Will I get the same quality image from an HD video card playing a DVD off of my Hard drive than I would from my Denon 1910 using DVI? I don't know the answer to that.

Gotcha, I didn't think about this being off topic. I hope the rules for the local threads allow a little more leeway, though. After all, it's a lot more relevant for AVS members in the same area to be sharing things like this. We can get together at one another's houses to show how we've implemented the ideas "borrowed" from AVS.

Agreed!

redwine

09-16-05, 12:14 AM

I have been watching the three new HD channels on Charter. Looks good so far.

Cinemax HD seems the best quality.....why did it take them so long to add this? It is premium and $$$ come in. Add Starz HD....come on $$$$$......

Is there any way to tell if there is compression being used similar to D* for cable that somebody out there can test scientifically? Otherwise all we have is subjective comparisons to what we expect. I hope cable, and Charter, has the physics and determination in their system to not use compression.

Robert Simandl

09-16-05, 12:34 AM

My appointment is tomorrow with a very small 8a-Noon install window. Charter really needs to change that aspect of things. 4hrs to wait is nuts.

Only 4 hours?

When my Pipeline and Digital Phone dropped dead at the same time a few weeks ago, I was told that the repair guy for the phone service will be out "tomorrow between 8AM and 10PM." I said, "You mean I have to hang around the house and wait for this guy for possibly FOURTEEN HOURS????????"

Luckily, he showed up slightly before noon.

duihlein

09-16-05, 07:15 AM

Thing is, if I'm going to drop $700+ on an HTPC, why wouldn't I just go with the 942. (If you're an E* sub, that is.) It seems like the HTPC is stilll so much in it's infancy, even though it's been around for a while, that it isn't worth the brain damage to get one set up when you could spend the same or less on a 942. Accepting that they'll both be boat anchors when MPEG4 is rolled out completely.

Granted, you can also use the HTPC as a media server. Actually the idea of storing all of my DVD's in one place with instant access is very appealing. That useage is still being worked out too though. Will I get the same quality image from an HD video card playing a DVD off of my Hard drive than I would from my Denon 1910 using DVI? I don't know the answer to that.

Agreed!

As one who has a 921 it depends on how many OTA shows you want to watch/record. With so many new shows, all in HiDef I want to record as many of them as possible. I can currently do 1 with my 921 and 1 with my HiPix. I'm hoping to add a second tuner to my current HTPC so I can record 3 OTA shows at once. Also, the HTPC allows me to archive the Pink Floyd show on Ch 9.

Dave

PWSHER

09-16-05, 07:43 AM

Charter does not have NFL Sunday Ticket. Find a bar or restaurant that has it and have a nice, long lunch. I know the Maryland Yards on Dorsett had it last year, but I'm sure there are plenty of places around that will.

I may be wrong but there is a sports tier on Charter. I dion't have it but it may be worth a call. I just looked it up and it's only for baseball, hockey and NASCAR. bummer huh?

Robert Simandl

09-16-05, 07:53 AM

One reason the NFL Sunday Ticket package on DirecTV is so hugely expensive is... DirecTV pays beaucoup extra bucks for the privilege of saying "exclusively on DirecTV."

oby

09-16-05, 08:05 AM

[QUOTE=redwine]I have been watching the three new HD channels on Charter. Looks good so far.

Cinemax HD seems the best quality.....why did it take them so long to add this? It is premium and $$$ come in. Add Starz HD....come on $$$$$......

I have been watching Discovery HD and PBS HD on Charter, and love those channels. The quality is outstanding. I don't have any of the HD movie channels, as I subscribe to Netflix. However, with the HBO HD/Cinemax HD combo staring me in the face, I might just weaken and order them up.

Since Charter has already signed an agreement with TNT HD--I would guess that is the next channel coming. Although, I would rather see ABC HD ( I know...cold day in hell stuff).

eyezen

09-16-05, 09:06 AM

Greetings:

My wife and I enjoyed our first full week of OTA HDTV with our recent addition of a LST3510 receiver, I mainly got it for the FB season and upcoming baseball playoffs. But the wife is loving it for her shows as well.

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, and while I have scanned a lot of the past pages I didn't catch this particular topic....

Everything looks wonderful, however, why is it that every show right before the local news on KSDK get "switched" to SD. Can't some moron wait 30 seconds? Well I hope it isn't some real person sitting there with a itchy finger.

Anyone have an answer.

tlmcca

09-16-05, 09:23 AM

I have to agree that the picture quality on each of the three additions is terrific, especially MAX. I am disapointed that for KETC we got 9.1 rather than 9.3, or, better yet, all three.

Terry

Mookie11

09-16-05, 09:33 AM

I have to agree that the picture quality on each of the three additions is terrific, especially MAX. I am disapointed that for KETC we got 9.1 rather than 9.3, or, better yet, all three.

Terry
9.1 is the only high definition channel of the 3 PBS channels. I watched the coral reef show on Discovery HD last night and was just mesmerized by it. It was a tough decision because Halle Berry looked awfully good as catwoman on Cinemax HD.

abcward

09-16-05, 09:50 AM

9.1 is the only high definition channel of the 3 PBS channels. I watched the coral reef show on Discovery HD last night and was just mesmerized by it. It was a tough decision because Halle Berry looked awfully good as catwoman on Cinemax HD.

I watched that same show and felt the same way...I can already tell that Discovery-HD will be the cause of many days of couch-potato'ing...

I put my vote in for FSMW-HD to be the next Charter addition. Blues and Cardinals in HD and I won't complain again.

aspec2

09-16-05, 10:23 AM

My son-in-law works out of his house. I gave him a Sammy 360 for Christmas. I was down in Austin in August and did some work on his TV. The installers came out 2 days after I left to put up the HD dish for "D". He now calls to complain that he can't get anything done. He is watching too much Discovery HD.

Walt

Joseph Clark

09-16-05, 01:08 PM

Joseph Clark

09-16-05, 01:25 PM

I watched that same show and felt the same way...I can already tell that Discovery-HD will be the cause of many days of couch-potato'ing...

I put my vote in for FSMW-HD to be the next Charter addition. Blues and Cardinals in HD and I won't complain again.

Of course you will. None of us will be happy until everything is HD, and that's the way it should be. We can't let them rest and think we'll be satisfied with a few peace offerings now and then. This whole HD revolution started with promises of the beauty of HD for everyone, but now they're throwing things like multicasting at us all too frequently. If the trend continues, HD won't be any better than SD. It's HD soldiers like us who have the responsibility to fight the good fight and secure the future of HD quality for all. Unite, brothers!!! (Sorry, I went to an HD revival last night and we all got a little liquored up.)

Geeze80

09-16-05, 01:33 PM

abcward

09-16-05, 01:37 PM

I'm with you on that vote. Since most of the Cardinal and Blues games are on FSMW it would be nice to see it go to HD. I know the NHL will be on the OLN network this year so that channel could go to hi def in the future. HDNET had some NHL games last year on their network but I don't know if they will again this year.

HDNet has already gone on record that they will broadcast 2-3 games per week, but generally we never see Blues on those games, usually because of blackout rules.

OLN sounds like they will have their HD channel going in the next couple months, but will any of the local providers have it? Remember how long it took for D* to get ESPN2-HD, and Charter still doesn't have that channel. Would it be a shock that OLN-HD would not be shown in STL for 6 months?

DroptheRemote

09-16-05, 01:47 PM

Terry,

I think it's unlikely that Charter will add the KETC subchannels, for a couple of reasons.

For one, one of the subchannels is the standard KETC NTSC feed, and that's already being made available to Charter subscribers as a local channel. I haven't actually verified this, but I suspect that the picture quality of KETC's analog channel 9 on Charter is going to have generally better picture quality than the KETC subchannel that is part of KETC's digital feed. As I've discussed here previously, the subchannels are stealing away from the HD channel's bitstream, and the same thing is, by definition, happening with the SD subchannels.

It's a classic example of trying to cram 3 pounds of manure into a 2-pound bag.

In addition, adding the KETC subchannel would be a waste of Charter bandwidth.

I think the same is true for the other subchannel, PBS Kids, but there may be an additional factor here in that Charter is (I think) already providing PBS Kids as part of one of its upper-tier packages. Providing it as a "local" to someone who isn't subscribing to the relevant package would undermine Charter pricing and tier strategy, albeit in a very minor way.

But it is just this sort of competitive conflict that underlies cable and satellite's adamant resistance to mandatory carriage of all of a broadcaster's multicast program streams.

OTOH, I have read recently that some cable systems have signed a national agreement with PBS to carry all their local multicast channels. But as far as I know, Charter is not one of those companies. That's not to say they won't do that sort of deal at some point...

redwine

09-16-05, 01:56 PM

Terry,
....

For one, one of the subchannels is the standard KETC NTSC feed, and that's already being made available to Charter subscribers as a local channel. I haven't actually verified this, but I suspect that the picture quality of KETC's analog channel 9 on Charter is going to have generally better picture quality than the KETC subchannel that is part of KETC's digital feed.

Yep, and the local channel 9 has the pledge drive on it....again.....

redwine

09-16-05, 02:04 PM

I watched that same show and felt the same way...I can already tell that Discovery-HD will be the cause of many days of couch-potato'ing...

Me too, and my lazy son...

Is the Jeff Corwin show programming recorded with HD cameras? It looked good but not to the level of HDnet "In Focus" nature programming.

Geeze80

09-16-05, 02:09 PM

HDNet has already gone on record that they will broadcast 2-3 games per week, but generally we never see Blues on those games, usually because of blackout rules.

OLN sounds like they will have their HD channel going in the next couple months, but will any of the local providers have it? Remember how long it took for D* to get ESPN2-HD, and Charter still doesn't have that channel. Would it be a shock that OLN-HD would not be shown in STL for 6 months?

I'm just glad that the NHL found a fresh network to show its product but who knows when Charter would add OLN when it becomes hi def. Also NBC will carry games in the second half of the season so I would beleive they'll be shown in HD which should be neat.

mtbfan

09-16-05, 02:21 PM

tcfila

09-16-05, 02:38 PM

Can anyone suggest a "mom and pop" computer store in the St. Louis area that might sell the OEM version of WinXP Media Center 2005? Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. do not carry this. I have all the hardware I need...now I just need the software (key)!!

Try EPC in cave springs. I bought my last copy of XP from them OEM. They didn't even require the hardware purchase.

Robert Simandl

09-16-05, 02:38 PM

mtbfan

09-16-05, 02:55 PM

Thanks for the info tcfila and robert. I ordered a copy online from Purplus, but the order was not filled until today and they say it's out of stock. I was hoping to work on it this weekend, which is the reason for trying to find it locally. Also, EPC does not carry XP Media Center. :(

Any other suggestions?

eyezen

09-16-05, 03:25 PM

I think it's all manual at this point for KSDK, and they get it wrong frequently.

The LST3510 also has an upconverting DVD player built in, doesn't it? Have you used that? Best Buy is clearing those out at a pretty good price, if it's the one I saw recently.

Yes it is and that is why I grabbed it...i had read about it being a really good product and had been waiting and waiting and then I saw it go on clearance and I thought now's the time. Excellent PQ on all outputs, has RGB, DVI, and Component. Only stuck in one DVD (Spiderman) so far it was awsome. the TV is connected via DVI and we have a RGB cable running to a computer monitor in the office.

The best thing about this item is the tuner...When I borught it home the only thing I had to use was an old 300ohm rabbit ear ant. from an old 13in tv that had been my wifes old bedroom set from her parents house in St peters. Stuck it on there with a 75ohm trans. as was able to get 4 different channels instantly. Moved it around I could get others, not all at the same time mind you but it worked. Fo the first week we just moved it to where it needed to be for what channel we needed.

Of course that got old but the thing is we live 5 miles West of Troy out on hwy 47 and we were gettting this from inside the house. I went to Wally world and picked up a cheap amplified indoor ant and stuck it up in the attic (I have conduit thru the house so running cable pretty much anywhere is a breeze), and now we get everything perfectly except for UPN 46 but who cares about that.

bluedevil23

09-17-05, 12:51 AM

Charter is at it again....

I had an appointment today to get the Moxi Mate installed. Usual Charter window of 8am-12pm. I take off work for the day, wake up at 8am and plop on the couch waiting for the tech. 11am, phone rings. Automated message from Charter telling me the technician should arrive between noon and 3:45pm. Nice, I take off work for this. I call Charter, ask what's going on, service rep says he will have dispatch call me. 1 hour passes, it's shortly after noon now, no call. I call back and they tell me the tech is backed up, I should get a call soon when he's on the way. 2:20pm, Charter calls me, tells me the tech is in route he should be there in 30-45 minutes. 3:30, no tech. Call Charter get the same "we'll find out what's going on and call you back". Tech pulls up to the house at 3:45pm. Now, I will say that this is not the techs fault that Charter overbooks so I'm very polite with him. Before installing anything he checks out the wiring outside the house. One look at it and he says he has no idea how my current Moxi box is working. I wasn't at home during the initial setup when we moved to this house in June, my girlfriend was. I never really bothered to check the outer wiring, but it turns out the guy just reused the old satellite cable in place. It was all RG59. So the tech spends his first hour or so running a new drop to my house from the pole and then running new cable into the house. He hooks up the new Moxi, spends about 30 minutes on the phone trying to get the right updates to it. It's about 5:45 now and the Moxi finally has downloaded the guide and is working. He goes into the bedroom and hooks up the mate and it shows "rd16" on the display and is stuck on channel 2, menus won't come up. He calls the office and is told this is normal, it will download everything and start working in 20-30 minutes. I sign his papers, he leaves. 30 minutes later nothing has changed. Girlfriend comes home and we go eat and go shopping. I arrive back home around 9:30pm and nothing has changed. I proceed to call Charter and speak to 3 different people. The exhanges follow.

#1: Guy sounds like he knows what's up. Takes my phone # and immediately says "oh, I see it, let me change this. Ok, now you just need to reboot the main Moxi box and you should be good." I ask if he would wait and he says he's positive it will be fine and I can call back if it's not. So I hang up, wait for the Moxi to reboot. NOPE!

#2: Lady asks me to unplug the power to the mate and wait 10 seconds and plug it back in. I do this and tell her it doesn't work. Her reply "now you are unplugging the little black cable and not the thicker one, right?" Let's see, I have a power cable, coax in, and coax out. Yes, I'm pretty sure I unplugged the power. She says she doesn't know what's up and will transfer me. I get disconnected in this process.

#3: Different lady, also asks if I have unplugged the mate and rebooted the main unit. She tries to send a hit to the box and says it doesn't seem to be working. She says she needs to setup a troubleshooting visit. "I can have someone there Tuesday between 8am and noon". My reply "well, I get off work at about 4:30pm so I guess I should be home by the time they show up". Her: "no sir, 8am." Me: "Yes, I'm aware, that was my window this morning and he showed up at 3:45pm". Her: "Well, can you be home Tuesday?" Me: "My girlfriend will be here, but she has to leave at 10am, no later." Her: "Well I can tell them to come to your house first so they should be there at 8:30". Me: "If the window is 8 to noon and I'm first at 8:30 why don't you just say 8:30 so I don't rearrage my schedule." Her: "Well, it might be closer to 8, if they come to your house first. I can only ask." Me: "Ok, send them out, but if they come after 10, no one will be here." She schedules the appointment and I hang up. After steaming for about 5 minutes I realize how terrible this service is and I call back. This next one gets fun.

#4: "Hi, I'm not too pleased with how things have gone with my Moxi mate install today." Her: "Ok sir, what is going on?" I tell her how the installer was almost 4 hours late, had to redo the job their first installer did and left the box in the current non working state. Her: "Have you unplugged the power to the mate, counted to 10 and plugged it back in?" Me: "Yes, the second person had me try that." Her: "You did unhook the small black wire, right?" Me (laughing): "Yes". Her: "Well, you have your appointment set, I don't know what more we can do." Me: "Well, I'd like someone to fix this sooner. I think it's pretty bad that my installer today was almost 4 hours late and left it like this. The least I could get is someone to fix it tomorrow." Her: "Well, our technicians get backed up and sometimes they are late to appointments." Me: "4 hours is pretty bad, perhaps you shouldn't book so many appointments per day if they can't keep their time frames." Her: "I'm sorry sir, I don't do the scheduling." Me: "I understand, I would like to talk to a supervisor or someone who can help fix this." Her (rudely): "Well, I don't think any are here, if you would call earlier than 10pm then maybe you could talk to someone." Me: "Well, I would have called earlier, but I was told to wait for the box to download the info at 6pm and I had to eat. Perhaps if your tech had shown up at noon and left at 2 then I could have called at 3 or 4, but that didn't happen, so you get me now." I get put on hold for 10 minutes for a supervisor that I'm sure she was looking REALLY hard for. I finally talk to a supervisor who was very polite, apologized and told me she would have someone call me in the morning, but at 10pm there's not much she can do. I'm polite to her as I realize they probably don't have the brightest support staff working the late shifts.

So now I wait. If I don't hear from someone tomorrow by 1pm (which she told me was the absolute latest they would call) I am going to call back and be a little less polite this time. I'm amazed at how poor Charter's customer support can be, but my hands are a little tied as I do not want to have to buy hardware for a dish and get a land line for DSL. I'm very pleased with the service Charter offers, just not the support.

That said, the tech who did my install was top notch. I know it's not his fault that they book too many installations in a day and he took the time to fix the screwup the first installer did. I'm not too happy he left without waiting for the mate to work, but I can understand. They tell him it's normal and will take 20-30 minutes and he's been at my house for over 2 hours already. I've dealt with several installation techs and he was by far the best.

So I'm sitting in my bedroom watching channel 2 since the mate is stuck on that. If anyone knows how to fix this magic "rd16" message, by all means tell me as it appears Charter is clueless....

::sigh::

bailorg

09-17-05, 01:25 AM

Charter is at it again....

Hmmm. I also had my Moximate installed today. I had no problems and my tech was in and out in about 40 minutes. I do know that the tech called in twice as part of the installation. My main moxi box was prompted to reset itself (after the initial bootup) from Charter after everything was hooked up. After the reset everything worked fine.

One minor note of exasperation: the tech saw that I had a DVI cord hooked up to the moxi box and actually asked me when the DVI port was going to be activated.

DroptheRemote

09-17-05, 10:05 AM

Winston,

I received an eMail reply from Joel Silver at the ISF about the ISF Labs testing criteria for video cards that are certified for use in Microsoft Media Center Edition PCs.

I'm attaching a PDF that includes the required criteria for certification. It's lengthy and not entirely straightforward, but it also appears to be pretty comprehensive. This document is also available via the ISF web site.

As for the issue I raised about DVI-Video levels instead of DVI-PC levels, that is definitely covered for both the input and output stages. This means that if a video card has been certified by the ISF Labs, then it properly handles DVI-Video levels. Of course, that DOES NOT mean that a card that hasn't been certified by the ISF Labs fails to meet that criteria, but without the testing and certification, it's difficult, if not impossible, to know for certain.

It's also worth clarifying that there's no direct connection between ISF Labs certification and video calibration. In other words, an MCE PC doesn't come calibrated straight out of the box. But if the components making up the video system have been given the ISF Labs certificate, it does mean that the system they are used in is capable of being calibrated for accuracy.

Rather than sending this via eMail or private message, I'm posting here in view of the wider ongoing discussions about HTPCs here recently. I hope this info is useful.

I'm planning on talking with Joel early next week about some additional questions I have about video cards and related applications and HTPCs. If you (or anyone else) has additional questions you'd like me to try to chase down, let me know over the weekend or first thing on Monday.

Scott Tucker

09-17-05, 10:23 AM

Charter is at it again....
::sigh::

Sorry to say it, but if you don't want to pay for a better option, you are forever screwed. You get what you pay for. Unfortunately, your story is all too common. I've said it before, I gladly pay over $200/mo. for phone, sat and DSL just to NOT have to deal with an incompetent company like Charter. Believe me, I wish things were different because Charter really could take care of all my needs. It will be interesting to see if Charter calls you today at or before the specified time. Keep us updated.

Scott

DroptheRemote

09-17-05, 10:52 AM

...I've said it before, I gladly pay over $200/mo. for phone, sat and DSL just to NOT have to deal with an incompetent company like Charter.
ScottI unconditionally respect a man who puts his money where his mouth is.

Therefore, I humbly hand over my Charter-Bashing Crown.

The King is Dead. Long Live the King. ;)

ghibliss

09-17-05, 11:33 AM

Art Lloyd

09-17-05, 11:58 AM

Scott,

Well said. Art

Joseph Clark

09-17-05, 12:04 PM

Joseph Clark

09-17-05, 12:43 PM

Since each pc has different loads placed on it based on the accessories connected to it (CD-ROM drives, DVD Drives, floppy drives, etc with various size power supplies) there are different conditions placed on the same card in each computer. There is no way that you can supply a calibrated video card to a computer user that will not require adjustment after installation. The only accurate way to perform this is by attaching an oscilloscope to the output of the card and putting a calibrated signal on the device for measurement. This is not a difficult process and takes very little time assuming one has the proper tools to perform the calibration with.

You're way over my head here with being able to calibrate with oscilloscopes, but I thought a digital signal (like DVI) wasn't affected by issues such as the power draw of other devices. The digital signal either exits the card to the display or it doesn't, without its bits being changed by excess power drain created by, for instance, too many hard drives. I understand the need to calibrate the display independent of the video card's output, since each display comes from the factory with its own set of issues. Isn't what you are talking about a video card's VGA (RGBHV) analog output?

When I moved recently from an all analog display and all analog computer outputs, my line noise problem (horizontal lines moving vertically through the display) went away completely. My house has grounding issues.

The issue I've been trying to come to terms with recently is the difference in the way computer manufacturers and consumer electronics manufacturers specify their DVI signal levels. It makes it problematic to hook up a computer DVI signal output from a video card to an HDTV made by Sony or, in my case, Optoma. The computer DVI signal gets to the Optomas house and rings the door bell, but when Optoma answers, the Radeon video card starts speaking Russian. The Optoma says come in, but things don't go well that evening because they really don't understand one another.

jedi35

09-17-05, 03:58 PM

bluedevil23

09-17-05, 09:02 PM

Well, here's the update. When I woke up this morning I was thinking to myself that the tech said something about a filter before he hooked up the mate. I checked the line in the house and it was straight through. I went outside and found a filter on the line going into my bedroom. That line is split to my cable modem and the tv with the mate. I removed the filter and bam, the mate is working. I called Charter to let them know I fixed it and to make sure the filter wasn't needed. They straightened out everything and gave me a $25 service credit for my trouble. Not the greatest, but it helps. Noon rolls around and I did get a call from Charter, but it was someone taking a survey on my mate installation. Now that was fun.... :)

At any rate, everything is working so I'm back to happy. Charter's tech support sucks, but I think I've had to deal with them 3 times in 2 years. Their service is reliable and I pay a little over $100 for everything I have, although that total will be slightly inflated with the new Moxi mate. Unfortunately I can't pay $200/mo to not deal with them and from my personal experience, their cable internet is better than DSL which would be a deal breaker for me. So I'll continue using their service and bitching at them and getting credits when they screw up the few times I need a service call. Now it's time to play with the new mate a bit.

Joseph Clark

09-17-05, 11:37 PM

Joe,
Can you give me more details on your setup? I also have an Optoma display device, but it is their H31 dlp pj. There is a huge thread in the under $3,500 forum for pjs on AVS where several members have had trouble with the dvi input on the H31. After months of getting complaints, Optoma USA has finally stepped up and started dealing with the problem(s). So far, the fix they've come up with involves NVidia cards, not ATIs. Newer units seem to already have the fix applied, so those of us with older units have to worry about this. The dvi issues are significant only to htpcs. Set top boxes with dvi outputs all work fine with the H31. I know that your issues may not be exactly the same as ours, but you might want to look into it. PM me if you'd like more info.

Thanks, Jedi, but I probably didn't make myself clear. It's not really a problem with my Optoma H79 so much as it is with my own ignorance of the differences between DVI-Video and DVI-PC levels. I think Optoma has the issues ironed out as far as the H79 is concerned. It can understand both types.

Basically, I thought DVI would solve all my issues with my HTPC setup, but it's gotten a lot more complicated than I thought it would be. The short story, though, is that DVI is much preferrable to component and it has solved all my problems with electrical line noise and grounding that I had to deal with on my Sharp 9000.

I've gotten a couple of explanations on other threads, and, along with some articles sent to me by others on this thread, I'm beginning to get a handle on it. I felt a little better the other day when I found out that it's something that even a couple of computer gurus on the MyHD 130 thread didn't seem to understand fully.

Anyway, my HTPC's are all ATI Radeon based, but that isn't an issue for me at this point. I would be interested in what you have to share concerning the nVidia boards and DVI issues.

Maybe we should take this to PM, though. I doubt it's of much interest to others here.

Numbski

09-18-05, 12:14 AM

Any idea why 30-1 is forcing standard-def letterboxing for Star Trek - Enterprise, Sat Sept 17 2005@11pm?

It should be HD, shouldn't it be?

Robert Simandl

09-18-05, 07:28 AM

Any idea why 30-1 is forcing standard-def letterboxing for Star Trek - Enterprise, Sat Sept 17 2005@11pm?

It should be HD, shouldn't it be?

The only HD you'll see from KDNL 30-1 in the foreseeable future will be ABC network stuff that KDNL can pass along.

The Star Trek Enterprise repeats on KDNL are a syndicated package (not from ABC). Therefore, 4x3 upconverts are what 30-1 will show for them.

They're letterboxed inside the 4x3 area because that's how Paramount mastered them.

During Enterprise's first run on UPN, channel 46-1 did the same thing... upconverted the letterboxed 4x3 analog feed of the show.

Scott Tucker

09-18-05, 08:54 AM

PWSHER

09-18-05, 03:53 PM

I removed the filter and bam, the mate is working. I called Charter to let them know I fixed it and to make sure the filter wasn't needed. .

I was told the filter had to be there in order for the Mate to work properly!! ???
Weird huh? They put it on mine. My cable modem does seem to work slower now. hmm?

skippy_rq

09-18-05, 11:35 PM

The tech that did my install said it was his first but he only took a total of 20 minutes. He asked which line off the main splitter went to the cable modem. He put the filter after that point. He said it wouldn't work if the filter was on a line that went to the cable modem. He took the feed coming in the house and split it to the modem then put the filter on that led to the rest of the wiring in the house. I think the menus are a lot faster than the regular Moxi which is a plus.

Robert Simandl

09-19-05, 12:14 AM

Hmmm, looks like SHE SPIES is no longer showing on channel 46-1. That, coupled with the HUGE new BRIGHT RED logo/bug they have in the lower right corner of the screen now, means I won't be watching 46-1 at all now for the foreseeable future.

bluedevil23

09-19-05, 12:35 AM

PWSHER

09-19-05, 07:43 AM

I'm not sure I'm following your explanation of the filter skippy. All the wiring on my house is external. The main line comes from the utility pole in the alley and goes into a two way splitter. One line goes to the living room with the Moxi and the other to the bedroom with the mate and the cable modem. There is another two way splitter inside the house in the bedroom feeding the mate and the modem. The tech put the filter on the outside line going into the bedroom so it was filtering both the modem and the mate. I'm not sure if you're saying the filter should be on the modem or what, but there was no filter in place at my old house and my parents also have no filter at their house either. At any rate, the mate is working so I'm going to leave the filter out of the loop.

Interesting. I looked at mine (they don't even put the platic security strap oin mine anymore...as if that would keep me out!) and the filter is inline before it splits to go to my modem, Phone, and cable TV. So my house is isolated. Funny though when the line come in the house he installed.

Anyone else notice extreme pixilation (you can barely tell it is fastforwarding) when fast forwarding recorded programs? It happend to several shows I recorded over the weekend. Analog, SD and Highdef programs were all effected.

Maybe I should get the model number off this filter and "google" it and find out how it should really be installed.

phatty

09-19-05, 07:49 AM

Interesting. I looked at mine (they don't even put the platic security strap oin mine anymore...as if that would keep me out!) and the filter is inline before it splits to go to my modem, Phone, and cable TV. So my house is isolated. Funny though when the line come in the house he installed.

Anyone else notice extreme pixilation (you can barely tell it is fastforwarding) when fast forwarding recorded programs? It happend to several shows I recorded over the weekend. Analog, SD and Highdef programs were all effected.

Maybe I should get the model number off this filter and "google" it and find out how it should really be installed.

If I remember right the Filter blocks the broadcast that the main moxi unit does when communicating with the Mate. I would not think it would be possible for the filter to kill cablemodems or anything because the Moxi itself has a cablemodem for downloading its data. I bet filter on the Main line coming in is the correct way it is supposed to be installed. This would prevent signal feeding back into Charter's lines for your neighbors to see what you are watching(assuming they have the moxi+mate combo).

The fast forward problem is something I have ran into several times before and unless your watching a widescreen show where you can easily tell when the show is back on it can be hard to know when to stop fast forwarding. This happens randomly for me with no real pattern. The last few recordings that occurred over this past weekend all came in clear with no FF problem.

tcfila

09-19-05, 10:54 AM

My installer told me that the filter was not supposed to be on the modem. He also said it had to be there so that the neighbors couldn't watch what I was.......

bluedevil23

09-19-05, 01:58 PM

So the filter should be on the line going to the main Moxi unit, not the mate? Am I following this correctly?

skippy_rq

09-19-05, 02:04 PM

The filter should not be on a line that is feeding the modem. That is why in my case I have the main feed coming in the house. From there the tech put a 2 way splitter in. One of the splits went to my cable modem. The other split goes into the filter and then out of the filter is what feeds the whole house. Hope that is a good explaination.

Pretty sad when we can understand how to install Charter better than most of their techs. But I like them for the product not the customer service.

jdurbin

09-19-05, 03:10 PM

mtbfan,

If you don't mind ordering off the Internet:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832102311

It's $119.95 as I type this.

I've bought lots of my PC parts from newegg, they're pretty much top notch.

I second this. NewEgg rocks. Is anyone using a product called MyHTPC? When I first built my HTPC a couple years ago, I installed that but to tell the truth I have been so swamped over the last year I haven't even unboxed the HTPC. I got my InFocus 61md10 on Friday night and now I am getting back into it.

duihlein

09-19-05, 04:12 PM

Well, I just purchased a DVICO HDTV Fusion card to add to my HTPC. With my 921 and my HiPix that will give me 3 sources to record OTA. I hope that will be enough to take care of the new season that has started.

Dave

abcward

09-19-05, 04:38 PM

HDNet to Air NHL in HDTV
The high-def network will broadcast 52 games.
Special to TVPredictions.com

Washington D.C. (September 19, 2005) -- HDNet, the high-def network co-founded by Mark Cuban, has announced that it will broadcast 52 National Hockey League games.

The broadcast schedule begins opening night on October 5 at 10 p.m. (ET) with the Phoenix Coyotes vs.the Vancouver Canucks. The matchup will mark the debut of the Coyotes' Wayne Gretzky as a NHL coach.

The first week of action on HDNet will also include games between the St. Louis Blues and the Detroit Red Wings (Thursday, Oct. 6 at 8 p.m., ET) and the Pittsburgh Penguins vs. the Boston Bruins (Saturday, Oct. 8 at 7:30 p.m., ET.)

HDNet begins its fourth year of NHL coverage with a Thursday and Saturday schedule. HDNet will update its broadcast schedule bi-monthly so that it will be
able to feature the hottest players, teams and match ups.

All NHL on HDNet broadcasts will be original HDNet productions.

“More and more viewers are discovering that hockey in HDTV is an incredible television experience,” says Doug Perlman, the NHL's senior vice president of television and new media. "The league's new rules and
compelling storylines promise to make the NHL on HDNet can’t-miss programming for hockey fans.”

“The NHL is back and we are excited to be part of what is sure to be an incredibly exciting season," says HDNet's Cuban. "No sport benefits as much from HDTV as hockey, and no one does HD better than HDNet.”

Below is the HDNet-NHL scheduule for October. All times Eastern.

Wednesday, Oct. 5: Coyotes vs Canucks 10:00PM
Thursday, Oct. 6: Red Wings vs. Blues 8:00PM
Saturday, Oct. 8: Bruins vs. Penguins 7:30PM
Thursday, Oct.13: Predators vs Coyotes 10:00PM
Saturday, Oct.15: Lightning vs Penguins 7:30PM
Thursday, Oct. 20: Rangers vs Islanders 7:00PM
Saturday, Oct. 22: Hurricanes vs Capitals 7:00PM
Thursday, Oct. 27: Blackhawks vs Red Wings 7:30PM
Saturday, Oct. 29: Hurricanes vs. Penguins 7:30PM

HDNet is available on DIRECTV, EchoStar and several cable systems.

The Outdoor Life Network has also announced that it will broadcast NHL games in HDTV this season, but has not revealed game times or dates.

------------------------------------
NOTE - I'm guessing that Blues game will be blacked out locally, so I guess we need not get too excited about that one.
------------------------------------

stoesser

09-19-05, 05:02 PM

djsmokyc

09-19-05, 05:03 PM

HDNet to Air NHL in HDTV
Below is the HDNet-NHL scheduule for October. All times Eastern.

Wednesday, Oct. 5: Coyotes vs Canucks 10:00PM
Thursday, Oct. 6: Red Wings vs. Blues 8:00PM
Saturday, Oct. 8: Bruins vs. Penguins 7:30PM
Thursday, Oct.13: Predators vs Coyotes 10:00PM
Saturday, Oct.15: Lightning vs Penguins 7:30PM
Thursday, Oct. 20: Rangers vs Islanders 7:00PM
Saturday, Oct. 22: Hurricanes vs Capitals 7:00PM
Thursday, Oct. 27: Blackhawks vs Red Wings 7:30PM
Saturday, Oct. 29: Hurricanes vs. Penguins 7:30PM

------------------------------------
NOTE - I'm guessing that Blues game will be blacked out locally, so I guess we need not get too excited about that one.
------------------------------------

According to Ken H in the HD Programming thread, local games will be blacked out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6217801&&#post6217801

DanGraney

09-19-05, 05:36 PM

Skippy, Bluedevil et all...

Well, we're moving into our new house in Dogtown on Thursday and Charter is coming out Friday morning between 8-12 to install the 9022 and the mate, internet, and phone. Interestingly, I had originally ordered the 9012 and Charter told me they didn't have any and would have to install a basic HD receiver until they got more 9012s. They didn't even try to upsell me to the 9022 w/mate. I did the upsell myself 'cause I'm curious as to how well the 9022 and mate work together.

I'll let you all know how it goes. Some notes though...

1) Filter BEFORE 9022 and mate but NOT before modem.

2) Don't let 'em leave 'til it works!

3) Proper grounding of cable system. This is a new construction house. Any idea where and what I should look as far as proper grounding of cable system? Don't really have a clue, really but I don't want my entertainment system to get fried.

Anything else?

Regards.

Bill

i get mine saturday... and the same thing: had to upsell myself. as did my sister. it's as though they don't know they're available. yet they were willing to let us both wait around for the old ones. i equate it to this analogy...
i go to a ford dealership.
i say i want to buy a mustang.
they say there's a waiting list, because they don't have any.
i look out the window and see rows of new mustangs.
i mention it, and they go "oh, you want a new mustang. yeah, we have those."

bluedevil23

09-19-05, 05:38 PM

StockInv

09-19-05, 05:50 PM

I'm a little confused about the Moxi Mate. Does the Mate require a cable modem to work, or does it serve as the modem?

kugumby

09-19-05, 11:50 PM

I'm a little confused about the Moxi Mate. Does the Mate require a cable modem to work, or does it serve as the modem?

The modem is a completely separate entity. The guys were just talking about how the install should go. The Moxi box and the mate do not require a cable modem to work.

PWSHER

09-20-05, 08:43 AM

Bill,

The tech that came to my house had to redo all the wiring because it wasn't grounded and was using RG59. He ran a ground wire from the line coming in on the pole to a water faucet on the side of the house. That's pretty standard procedure for these installs. Your best bet is to watch the tech and make sure he does the job.

I'm still a little confused on the filter issue. In my setup he had the filter on the line going to the mate and the modem. My modem was working, but the mate was not until I took off the filter. There is no way to isolate the modem on a seperate line without running two lines into the bedroom which I don't want to do. I don't really want to mess with the filter since everything is working now.

Presently the filter is right in front of a splitter. I have a separate deicated line running to my modem so I can test this theory. I have been having pixilation on the TV and slowness on the modem. It will be easy to move the filter from the modem line and see if that helps.
Thanks to a great group of folks!

abcward

09-20-05, 08:58 AM

Quick Question:

Does anyone know if any of the remaining Cardinals regular season games are in HD?

Thanks
Bruce

DroptheRemote

09-20-05, 09:11 AM

Next Saturday's game (October 1) is the last scheduled HD game for KPLR.

I'm still hoping that they would also find a way to do the Sunday game, but that's probably being greedy...

hall316

09-20-05, 11:59 AM

Great. They are actually going to show a Blues game in HD and it's going to be blacked out here locally. I'm actually going to the game, but I wanted to record it to see how good it looked.

STL

09-20-05, 12:43 PM

Anyone having "new" problems with OTA CBS lately? I used to get a solid signal from them, but last night the picture kept freezing and the signal level was bouncing (from nothing to 40s to 70s). I thought it might be the storm, but a co-worker said his problems with OTA CBS started a week or so ago (and previously he had a good signal).

StLouG

09-20-05, 12:49 PM

hall316

09-20-05, 01:16 PM

it cut out a few times on me last night. I just figured it was the massive lightning storm that was going on.

STL

09-20-05, 04:45 PM

My co-worker found this:
Important note for KMOV/CBS viewers: On Tuesday, September 6, we made a change in our DTV transmission that will cause some receivers to lose our signal. People with those receivers will need to have their receivers scan for channels. The receivers will find our modified signal and again be able to receive KMOV-DT.
I'm going to rescan tonight, but I don't really expect it to help since I'm still "seeing" the channel.

DroptheRemote

09-20-05, 05:46 PM

hall,

I could be wrong, but in the past HDNet has liberally repeated its live sports programming after the event. If that's the case, I suspect that there would be no blackout for the repeats, which would at least give you an opportunity to evaluate the PQ.

But then, I'm not a big hockey fan and might not be remembering this correctly. Or the policy may be different under the newest deal -- though I'd think the NHL would be all in favor of round-the-clock repeats in view of its need to make up lost ground...

Robert Simandl

09-20-05, 07:47 PM

Re: KMOV cutting out.

Last Friday night's premiere of THRESHOLD had no dropouts, though the sound quality did leave something to be desired (a bit tinny). So whatever was causing it to cut out last night was not going on Friday.

I couldn't tell you about last night since my power went out at 8. No CSI Miami for me :rolleyes:

StockInv

09-20-05, 11:10 PM

A couple of observations:

(1) Monday Night Football looked terrible on Charter...almost unwatchable.

(2) When there are weather warnings on the local channels, there are no warnings on the comparable HD channels.

fireshoes

09-20-05, 11:19 PM

IIRC, HDNet replayed the NHL games the same night they aired, so you should still be able to record it.

kugumby

09-21-05, 12:12 AM

Monday Night Football looked terrible on Charter...almost unwatchable.

That would follow because MNF is on ABC and Charter doesn't carry the digital channel. If you would have bopped over to ESPN's broadcast of the Saints first "Home" game, you would have been satisfied with the quality. Looked good to me anyway.

djearl81

09-21-05, 10:04 AM

Any idea if KPLR is going to air any blues games in HD? With the exception of "forgetting" to air the last scheduled HD cardinal games, I've been very happy with the local broadcasts.

I can't go to the games or buy any hockey merchandise this year based on principal, but that doesn't mean I won't be screamin my head off in the living room during the games....and hosting parties if we can get an HD feed.

On the MNF (Dallas/Washington) note, I thought the general picture looked washed out both on my E* SD reciever and HD OTA (via dish 811.) I missed the last 2 minutes of the game becauase of the storm. Grrr...

djearl81

09-21-05, 10:10 AM

The coolest time of the year, TV sports wise, is on its way. Right now we have the NFL, all games broadcast in HD. Come October we will have HD baseball playoffs. Then, the icing on the cake is HDnet hockey games.

I Might actually have to flip between HD stations soon to actually see the content. Rather than switching just to see differences in picture quality.

And my girlfriend says I don't pay enough attention to her now.....

pjohearne

09-21-05, 10:45 AM

djearl81

09-21-05, 02:04 PM

pjohearne

Doug has a map on page 1 of this forum with a map of all the St. Louis towers.

Check www.antennaweb.org for what type of antenna you need to receive the signal. Most of us in the forum have antennas from http://www.antennasdirect.com/. It's a local company with great product.

Mr_Bester

09-21-05, 03:37 PM

...

I also intereseted in the OTA reception in the area house is near Big Bend and Sulphur Spring

Any opinions would be appreciated

Pat
I have a RS yagi pointed almost due east from here and I have no problems at all. I'm in the Sorrento subdivision.
Dug

_JK_

09-21-05, 06:00 PM

I've been lurking around here for a while.. I've had my Sammy HLR4266W for almost a month now, and being sick of switching back and forth to OTA and not really getting the most HD-wise out of the set, I bit and signed up for CharterHD today.

I would have loved to stay with E*, but the HD DVR 'option' ($500 out of pocket!?!?) killed my soul, as well as the fact I would still be stuck with OTA locals. I also was a member of the E*/SBC combo family, cuz I hate Charter so much. But here's hoping that getting it all on 1 wire/input simplifies things.

I'd called a few times getting info from Charter about the HD/DVR setup, and I kept getting that the HDDVRs were on 'indefinite' backorder. Then I called yesterday to get final pricing before pitching it to the wife, and I was told they'd be in October early. Today, I called to ordered and was told they had the DVRs in stock (w00t). Also, when I asked yesterday, they had said that ABC HD had just been added?

What model DVR should I be looking for?

abcward

09-21-05, 06:21 PM

What model DVR should I be looking for?

Charter's newest DVR is the Moxi 9022D which comes with the MoxiMate. The Mate is a second box that can be connected to a second SD television and it mirrors the 9022D. The 9022D has a 180gb hd in it.

Charter also has their first DVR, which is the Moxi 9012D. This is a standalone receiver that has a 80gb hd in it. I believe this is the model that is in short supply. I do think that part of the reason it is in short supply is that Charter is focusing its attention on the newer 9022D/Mate.

Mookie11

09-21-05, 07:06 PM

I'd called a few times getting info from Charter about the HD/DVR setup, and I kept getting that the HDDVRs were on 'indefinite' backorder. Then I called yesterday to get final pricing before pitching it to the wife, and I was told they'd be in October early. Today, I called to ordered and was told they had the DVRs in stock (w00t). Also, when I asked yesterday, they had said that ABC HD had just been added?

Woa, did you say that Charter has added ABC HD to the lineup? This is huge if it is true. Can anyone confirm?

By the way, I got my new Moxi 9022 with the Moxi Mate yesterday and it is really awesome. It took 4 hours for the guy to set it up but it was well worth it.

halcali

09-21-05, 07:46 PM

what channel is abc hd? i have yet to see it. they did add hd pbs a few days ago and that looks great but i really want abc hd.

abcward

09-21-05, 08:25 PM

I suspect that csr was wrong - PBS-HD, Cinemax-HD, and Discovery-HD were just added. There has been absolutely no news of ABC-HD being added. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one...

redwine

09-21-05, 10:13 PM

A couple of observations:

Monday Night Football looked terrible on Charter...almost unwatchable.

Yea, I have noticed the analog channels on Charter have started to look worse than before. Maybe it is just my cynical nature but the worse the analog channels look for folks without the digital service the more they would be willing to spend the few extra bucks for the digital service. The older folks and people with only 19" sets and only basic service probably won't care that much since they never really knew what a good picture looked like.

I think maybe Charter is downgrading the analog quality just enough to add the digital channels (including HD channels). That copper wire can only carry so much electrical information (waves and bits) to our houses with the current infrastructure.

I believe Charter is striving for a cost effective approach to maximize the income from their existing infrastructure. Basically don't piss off the old analog customers too much (you can lose a few) and upgrade the digital capabilities of the system to convert and retain the high end digital HD ($$$$) customer.

mjohnson71

09-21-05, 11:36 PM

what channel is abc hd? i have yet to see it. they did add hd pbs a few days ago and that looks great but i really want abc hd.

Pigs will fly, hell will freeze over yada yada yada when we'll get ABC-HD over cable.

Channel 30 is owned by Sinclair and they are demanding that cable and satellite providers pay a premium to carry the local HD channel. AFIK most cable companies have said no and Charter is absolutely set on not paying.

oby

09-22-05, 07:35 AM

[QUOTE=Mookie11]Woa, did you say that Charter has added ABC HD to the lineup? This is huge if it is true. Can anyone confirm?

Its not on my system. It would be huge, if they added it. As it is now, I don't go anywhere near those analog stations anymore. I would like to watch some of those new shows, like "LOST". However, I have recently rented the first year of "LOST" from netflix, so that is how I will watch the ABC shows that are getting good reviews.

_JK_

09-22-05, 09:48 AM

I suspect that csr was wrong - PBS-HD, Cinemax-HD, and Discovery-HD were just added. There has been absolutely no news of ABC-HD being added. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one...

Figures. I even made a point of asking about it. :mad: All I really watch on ABC is Lost and MNF though, I'll just keep recording the SD broadcast and watch HD OTA live when I can.

The Moxi/Mate thing sounds pretty slick, are these boxes networkable or capable of any other neat 'tricks'? (getting ready to go google now) :)

And is the Mate addition a gimme, or do I need to ask for it? (fee?)

I'm still stewing about having to give Charter my $$$, here's hoping they don't jack me around too much. I locked in for a year with their Dish owner's transfer special (freebie movie channels for the contract). I'm hope by the time the year's up, D* will have their Mpeg4/HD stuff straightened out and flowing then. :)

abcward

09-22-05, 09:55 AM

The Moxi/Mate thing sounds pretty slick, are these boxes networkable or capable of any other neat 'tricks'? (getting ready to go google now) :)

And is the Mate addition a gimme, or do I need to ask for it? (fee?)

So far, this setup is not networkable, but Charter's 3rd generation Moxi is a whole-house, networkable system. Can't wait for that one.

The only other obvious 'neat trick' is the Jukebox. This feature allows you to rip songs from audio cd's onto the HD of the Moxi.

And the Mate is a part of the 9022D...there should be no need to ask for it. However it is Charter, so it couldn't hurt to check anyways :)

_JK_

09-22-05, 10:09 AM

So far, this setup is not networkable, but Charter's 3rd generation Moxi is a whole-house, networkable system. Can't wait for that one.

The only other obvious 'neat trick' is the Jukebox. This feature allows you to rip songs from audio cd's onto the HD of the Moxi.

And the Mate is a part of the 9022D...there should be no need to ask for it. However it is Charter, so it couldn't hurt to check anyways :)

sweet. That's actually all I really wanted (the jukebox-type feature). How does the ripping work on it? (I still haven't had a chance to google :p ). My entire CD collection is already in MP3, and it'd be way to easy to just dump those to the HD, I know. :)

djearl81

09-22-05, 10:30 AM

I would have loved to stay with E*, but the HD DVR 'option' ($500 out of pocket!?!?) killed my soul, as well as the fact I would still be stuck with OTA locals. I also was a member of the E*/SBC combo family, cuz I hate Charter so much. But here's hoping that getting it all on 1 wire/input simplifies things.

JK -

With the Dish HD receivers, you hook your antenna up to your STB and then all your channels appear in the guide. It is a 1 wire/input hookup between the STB and the TV/pj. You just have to set up the channels in the receiver.

_JK_

09-22-05, 10:55 AM

JK -

With the Dish HD receivers, you hook your antenna up to your STB and then all your channels appear in the guide. It is a 1 wire/input hookup between the STB and the TV/pj. You just have to set up the channels in the receiver.

Yah, I know (brother-in-law has that setup). But you're still stuck using antenna for locals, which I wanted to avoid altogether.

wallyj

09-22-05, 11:04 AM

After a long dirty/dusty summer of construction, I’m pretty much set in my new basement HT. Just wanted to thank everyone for the knowledge they share on this and other boards. All that’s left, in the AV area at least, is to take my antenna (presently hooked up leaning on a wall) and put it in the attic. I’m assuming that since I’m getting reception, 70-90, in the basement, I should be in good shape 20 some feet higher and out of a concrete box!!!

The HD is awesome both OTA and over Dish. Also enjoying pumpin the DD 5.1 through the new receiver and speaks!

Can't wait to see the Cards in HD Playoffs/Series

elgibby

09-22-05, 12:26 PM

sweet. That's actually all I really wanted (the jukebox-type feature). How does the ripping work on it? (I still haven't had a chance to google :p ). My entire CD collection is already in MP3, and it'd be way to easy to just dump those to the HD, I know. :)

I ripped one CD only as an experiment, because I don't want to take up HD space with music.
I'll let somebody else talk about sound quality because my 9022 box has issues and needs to be replaced.
The rip went fine, except the progress bar never appeared. It also did not phone home for artist/album info.
MoxiGuy said on the Moxi thread that it was probably not in the Digeo db -- I was going to ask him whether there is, literally, a Moxi db for this or if the box is using Gracenote or Freedb etc, but I haven't asked yet.
MoxiGuy said it rips to MP3 at a bitrate of 192, which is pretty good (I rip via iTunes or audiograbber to 192 vbr; doubt Moxi is using vbr, tho).
The action menu lets you sort by album/artist/genre and shuffle among each.

barry

skippy_rq

09-22-05, 12:27 PM

I Will be moving to Ballwin in early October and as a result I will be starting over with my HD setup. I currently have a MITS CRT WS55413 thru DirectV use the HDTIVO as my DVR. I have been looking at the DLP's as a my new display. the Toshibas and MITS look the best to me. Does anyone have any experience with the mits WD52725 or WD6275 or the Toshibas HMX95 series?

I also intereseted in the OTA reception in the area house is near Big Bend and Sulphur Spring

Any opinions would be appreciated

Pat

I own a Mits 55" Diamond series. To get the best picture, stay away from anything buy the Diamond series. Don't even look at the ones at BBY. If you have the room for it, the 65" Diamond has bigger CRTs and the picture is noticeably better over the 55" at least to me it was. :) The diamond series has a CableCARD slot, 1394 firewire, and the built in tuner for OTA.
This link is to the 65" WS-65815
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/televisions/details.asp?id=93

_JK_

09-22-05, 12:33 PM

I ripped one CD only as an experiment, because I don't want to take up HD space with music.
I'll let somebody else talk about sound quality because my 9022 box has issues and needs to be replaced.
The rip went fine, except the progress bar never appeared. It also did not phone home for artist/album info.
MoxiGuy said on the Moxi thread that it was probably not in the Digeo db -- I was going to ask him whether there is, literally, a Moxi db for this or if the box is using Gracenote or Freedb etc, but I haven't asked yet.
MoxiGuy said it rips to MP3 at a bitrate of 192, which is pretty good (I rip via iTunes or audiograbber to 192 vbr; doubt Moxi is using vbr, tho).
The action menu lets you sort by album/artist/genre and shuffle among each.

barry

Just looked online, so there's a builtin DVD drive on this thing, eh? Does it upconvert, or at least progressive? Didn't see many details in that regard on moxi's site.

skippy_rq

09-22-05, 12:45 PM

Also, for anyone looking at Charter or has Charter check this out. I decided to call and ask about the promotion for agreeing to a 1 or 2 year commitment. Here are the details.
$47.99 for the Biggest Package
You can choose 1 or 2 yr term.
Price is locked in for the term.
There is an early termination fee. However if you move to a non Charter area then it is waived.
1 yr - $150 ETF
2 yr - $250 ETF
The Biggest Pack includes:
Basic
Expanded
1 Digital Receiver and Remote
Integrated Interactive Service
45 Commercial Free Music Stations
Access to Charter On Demand*
Choice of 1 Digital Tier:
The Movie Tier
Family and Information Tier
Sports Tier
HBO and Cinemax
Starz! Superpak

I choose The Movie Tier for my free one.
To get every channel you would need to add:
$4.00 - Family and information Tier:
Extra Discovery Channels, Extra Nickeloden Channels, More MTV and VH1, and more.
$3.99 - HDNet pack:
HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN, etc.
$4.00 - Sports Tier:
Outdoor Ch, ESPN Classic/News, Fox Sports out of market, NFL network and NFL
on demand.

Hope that helps those out there. I went with the 2 yr agreement since I am going to stay with Charter and would only drop them if I move where they aren't. This is a lot cheaper than both D* and E*'s product offerings for every channel and HD!

Rich

elgibby

09-22-05, 12:54 PM

Just looked online, so there's a builtin DVD drive on this thing, eh? Does it upconvert, or at least progressive? Didn't see many details in that regard on moxi's site.

My recollection from MoxiGuy a while back is that is NOT progressive or upconvert, and I don't recall seeing that info in the nearly useless user guide that came with the 9022.

Why motorola/digeo/charter would provide a 2-tuner box with a 160 gig drive that records HDTV and not make it either progessive or upconverting is beyond me. It wld make the box and the fee for it more expensive, of course.

barry

abcward

09-22-05, 12:56 PM

I ripped a cd too - but mine immediately recognized it and popped up the Artist Name, Album Name and all Song Titles.

FYI - the dvd player does the same for movies - When I put one in, it recognizes it and shows the name.

_JK_

09-22-05, 01:05 PM

StockInv

09-22-05, 02:28 PM

cracooper

09-22-05, 06:08 PM

have them double check the filter. the installer put one on my main and everything looked bad. he called a friend and reversed it. The main unit looked great but the mate was terrible. he left and came back later, took the filter off the main line and put it only on the line going to the mate. problem solved, they both look great, and the menu seems to be faster.

bailorg

09-22-05, 06:19 PM

I just got the Moxie Mate 9022D which replaced the 9012D Moxie Box.
Bottom line: My picture is worse on both HD and non-HD channels.
HD is not as sharp and I'm also getting noise and pixelation which I never had before. And the picture on my bedroom TV connected to the Mate is worse than it was.

The Tech told me the 9022's are rebuilt 9012's. They add a bigger hard-drive.

I'm wondering if the filter he put on my main line has something to do with the degradation of the picture?

I'll give it a few days and if I'm still disappointed I'll have them switch me back to the smaller Moxie.

My picture with the 9022 and Mate has been great. I didn't have any setup issues, and the picture on the TV hooked up to Mate had much improved PQ on the digital channels with the analog ones showing no difference (the tv was previously a straight analog connection).

DanGraney

09-23-05, 08:35 AM

My picture with the 9022 and Mate has been great. I didn't have any setup issues, and the picture on the TV hooked up to Mate had much improved PQ on the digital channels with the analog ones showing no difference (the tv was previously a straight analog connection).
Well, tomorrow is when the MoxiMate should arrive... the previous Charter install wasn't what I ordered and my sister's MoxiMate install didn't come with the Mate (just the Moxi).

I've requested a Charter technician. I've confirmed the install. I've given my cell, just in case they can come earlier that 1-5. I've even talked to a CSR and specifically told them I was really excited about my MoxiMate install... I hate to seem cynical, but I just worry that something's going to go awry.

I've printed out every suggestion about the filters and the install, but I just wish there was some way to ensure that they actually put the right items on the truck.

Sorry, just worrying out loud to everyone.

dan

abcward

09-23-05, 09:30 AM

DanGraney

09-23-05, 10:41 AM

Dan,

You are the customer, if when the tech arrives and he does not have the right equipment, demand that he fix this issue. When my 9022D/MoxiMate was installed, the tech did not have the correct box with him, but immediately called his supervisor who drove the correct equipment to my house. Don't let a lazy tech wiggle out of his responsibility.

But personally, since we have moved to O'Fallon about 6 months ago, we have had almost perfect service with the techs who have visited the house. There have been at my house at the earliest time, not late. They have done the works they were supposed to, and if anything unforeseen has happened, they have dealt with these issues in the best possible manner.

When I lived in Wildwood, my Charter experience was not as positive. I am guessing that some areas have better Charter techs than others.
Well, I live in Clayton/U. City so I'll keeping my fingers crossed.
Out of curiosity, do they install the 9022D w/out the Mate? Because that's what my sister received.

cracooper

09-23-05, 11:05 AM

Well, I live in Clayton/U. City so I'll keeping my fingers crossed.
Out of curiosity, do they install the 9022D w/out the Mate? Because that's what my sister received.

does it have a dvd player(look for the eject button on the front, or the dvd button in the moxi menu)? if not they just installed a 9012.

DanGraney

09-23-05, 11:32 AM

does it have a dvd player(look for the eject button on the front, or the dvd button in the moxi menu)? if not they just installed a 9012.
nope, my bad
(they were supposed to install the mate)

skippy_rq

09-23-05, 02:36 PM

I found that Charter charged me about $11 for the MoxiMate install. I emailed them back demanding they credit it back since it was never discussed with me and they leave no option for me to install it myself. They apologized and gave me the credit. You all might want to look at that if it wasn't mentioned to you and you don't know about it.

bluedevil23

09-23-05, 04:02 PM

When I called to complain about the tech arriving almost 4 hours late I asked if there was an install fee and they told me no. There is no way I will pay that if it's on my bill.

PWSHER

09-23-05, 08:37 PM

Anyone know why the Cardinals game is not on 11 or FSMW???? Post says 11, Moxi says FSMW???????weird.

davesalaman

09-23-05, 08:45 PM

scroll on the bottom of FSN says "technical difficulties" are preventing the broadcast.

bailorg

09-23-05, 09:55 PM

Anyone know why the Cardinals game is not on 11 or FSMW???? Post says 11, Moxi says FSMW???????weird.

Apparently FSN's central broadcast point is in Houston, which has been evacuated due to Hurricane Rita, so no Cards game

WinstonSmith

09-24-05, 12:07 AM

WinstonSmith

09-24-05, 12:27 AM

OK... did a little searching and I'm really looking at this card: ATI Radeon X800 PCIE 256MB card. (http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2707477) This is a refurbed card, from ATI... is this a good deal? It appears that this card IS ISF certified.

Any experience w/ refurbed cards?

Joseph Clark

09-24-05, 01:49 AM

Doug,

Thanks for the info on the ISF calibrations. Do you know of a site that has a list of ISF certified video cards? There was no list on that PDF that you sent me.

Another question...... I am wanting to connect a PC to my HDTV. I'm guessing I need a DVI to HDMI converter. How expensive are DVI cables? HDMI cables? How about the connector? Someone told me they thought I'd be spending about $100 on that. Is that true? Are DVI cables that expensive?

Winston,

I just picked up a couple of 12' DVI and HDMI cables from Radio Shack for $12.49 each on clearance yesterday. You can spend a lot more, but why? As long as your distances are short, those cables should be fine. BTW, electronically DVI and HDMI are compatible, so it's just a mechanical adapter, and no electronic conversion is going on.

Neuner

09-24-05, 11:09 AM

Winston,

I just picked up a couple of 12' DVI and HDMI cables from Radio Shack for $12.49 each on clearance yesterday. You can spend a lot more, but why?

I highly suggest the Computer Connection store on Page, East of 170. Their cables are cheap and they will custom make anything for little cost. Their cables are very impressive and definitely not cheap performing or looking.

Joseph Clark

09-24-05, 12:47 PM

I highly suggest the Computer Connection store on Page, East of 170. Their cables are cheap and they will custom make anything for little cost. Their cables are very impressive and definitely not cheap performing or looking.

I agree. The last cable I bought (before the Radio Shack ones) I got from Computer Connection. If you need a custom DVI to HDMI, then that store might be your best bet. If you can use the Radio Shack cables, though, they are about half of what I paid at Computer Connection. The Radio Shack cables were originally $50 each (now $12.49 on clearance) and I expect them to perform similarly.

kugumby

09-24-05, 12:56 PM

Are DVI cables that expensive?

As some of the guys here have mentioned, there is certainly a wide range on what you can spend on cables. I'm a firm believer in Outlaw Audio cables and Blue Jeans cables. Very high quality and not near the cost of overpriced Monster cables. Outlaw makes a cable that has DVI on one end and HDMI on the other, which eliminates the adaptor and provides a more secure connection on the HDMI side. A one meter cable is $40. Just wanted to throw that out there for you.

Outlaw Audio cables (link directly to DVI to HDMI cable)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/cab_hdmi_about.html

Blue Jeans cables
http://www.bluejeanscable.com

BTW, I just bought an ATI Radeon 9600 128mb card w/ DVI on ebay for $37. I'll let you know how it works when I get it hooked up. If anyone has tried this card or has any suggestions, I'd be interested in hearing about it. If it doesn't work, I'll just throw it back up on ebay. For $37 is was worth a try.

Since it has a DVI-I port, does anyone know if I have to have a DVI-I cable or can I just use the DVI-D cable I already have? I'm creating a DVD server and it will only be used for DVD playback from the hard drive.

WinstonSmith

09-24-05, 01:12 PM

I'm a big fan of the 9600 card from a couple of years back -- maybe nnly 16 months, really. It was the top of the line gaming card for awhile.

I really don't know how it would perform for what you're wanting though. I sure wish I had kept mine, then I wouldn't be buying another one =]

kugumby

09-24-05, 02:24 PM

I figure it'll be here by the end of the week. I'm going to try a piece of software called Meedio and I'll let you know how it works. I still need to get a sound card. Looking at the M-Audio Revolution on ebay. Just need something that will pass the DD or DTS track out to my receiver and let it do the decoding. If someone has a different suggestion, I'm all ears.

Robert Simandl

09-24-05, 03:13 PM

Before you try Meedio, look into Media Portal (http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net) . It's freeware, so if you don't like it no harm done. But if you do like it, you'll save yourself the price of Meedio.

Joseph Clark

09-24-05, 05:38 PM

As some of the guys here have mentioned, there is certainly a wide range on what you can spend on cables. I'm a firm believer in Outlaw Audio cables and Blue Jeans cables. Very high quality and not near the cost of overpriced Monster cables. Outlaw makes a cable that has DVI on one end and HDMI on the other, which eliminates the adaptor and provides a more secure connection on the HDMI side. A one meter cable is $40. Just wanted to throw that out there for you.

Outlaw Audio cables (link directly to DVI to HDMI cable)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/cab_hdmi_about.html

Blue Jeans cables
http://www.bluejeanscable.com

BTW, I just bought an ATI Radeon 9600 128mb card w/ DVI on ebay for $37. I'll let you know how it works when I get it hooked up. If anyone has tried this card or has any suggestions, I'd be interested in hearing about it. If it doesn't work, I'll just throw it back up on ebay. For $37 is was worth a try.

Since it has a DVI-I port, does anyone know if I have to have a DVI-I cable or can I just use the DVI-D cable I already have? I'm creating a DVD server and it will only be used for DVD playback from the hard drive.

You can use that cable. The only difference is that DVI-D cables don't have the analog pins that DVI-I cables do. If you intend to use the digital part of the DVI output, the DVI-D cable will work just fine.

I like the Radeon cards and have several, including a couple of 9600's. I think you'll be pleased with it. It even has the power to decode WMV HiDef 1080p files like Terminator 2 and the handful of other discs that are out there, if your CPU is about 2.8ghz or better.

kugumby

09-24-05, 08:07 PM

I like the Radeon cards and have several, including a couple of 9600's. I think you'll be pleased with it. It even has the power to decode WMV HiDef 1080p files like Terminator 2 and the handful of other discs that are out there, if your CPU is about 2.8ghz or better.

This is an older box with a 1.6ghz processor. I've heard it can be overclocked to something like 2.2, but I've never tried doing that and it still doesn't get me to 2.8. Sounds like it wouldn't be able to handle it.

Before you try Meedio, look into Media Portal (http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net) . It's freeware, so if you don't like it no harm done. But if you do like it, you'll save yourself the price of Meedio.

Thanks for the tip! Meedio does have a 15 day trial as well. I'll give Media Portal a look.

DanGraney

09-25-05, 10:08 AM

Dan,

You are the customer, if when the tech arrives and he does not have the right equipment, demand that he fix this issue. When my 9022D/MoxiMate was installed, the tech did not have the correct box with him, but immediately called his supervisor who drove the correct equipment to my house. Don't let a lazy tech wiggle out of his responsibility.

But personally, since we have moved to O'Fallon about 6 months ago, we have had almost perfect service with the techs who have visited the house. There have been at my house at the earliest time, not late. They have done the works they were supposed to, and if anything unforeseen has happened, they have dealt with these issues in the best possible manner.

When I lived in Wildwood, my Charter experience was not as positive. I am guessing that some areas have better Charter techs than others.
The MoxiMate has arrived... so far, so good. The filter didn't work (horrible reception on the Mate), so the installer took it off. Around 11:00 last night, the Mate stopped responding and was simply stuck on one channel... after some digging around, I found a post suggesting that it could be due to the Moxi heating up (it was an enclosed unit). I took it out and that did the trick. NOW...
I have to re-think my wiring. So is the DVI out active?

Thanks to everyone here... you made my switch from D* to Charter much easier.
dan

WinstonSmith

09-25-05, 11:26 AM

I hate to keep asking HTPC questions, but I'm going to anyway. =]

I went out and bought the DVI to HDMI cable yesterday afternoon and hooked up my new HTPC to my big screen Sony. Then, I took the Toslink optical cable from my HTPC to my surrond sound receiver. I had both good and bad results.

I was able to get sound into my ssr and thus it came out through my surround sound speakers. However, the receiver was only telling me it was getting stereo sound. It was still cool.

I was able to get video on the big screen, but the Windows desktop was horribly sized and it would nto allow me to resize it. I was dumbfounded. However, when I went into the Media Center portal, I was able to select some video and watch it and it was appropriately sized. In fact, it looked very, very good. Along w/ the sound (though only two channel stereo) I was quite pleased. I think I might like htis =]

Any ideas on how to fix the above two problems?

Final question... I have to upgrade the video card in my HTPC (I currently have an ATI Radeon X300 PCI-E). I have two choices and I'd love to get some input on them.

First, the ATI Radeon X800 Pro PCI-E w/ 256MB of Ram. (http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2707477) The only downside is that its a refurbished video card. Manufacturer refurbished. Its $179.

The other option is an eVGA GeForce 6800GT, PCI-E card; it has an Arctic Cooling NV5 Silencer™ silent cooler installed, normally a $40 addition. This is a used card from a friend of mine. He wants $200.

The other thing is, I'm getting an Avermedia A180 HDTV tuner card this week. Its in route from Tigerdirect.

Thanks for the help. I'm almost totally and forever immersed in HDTV and I love it.

Robert Simandl

09-25-05, 11:55 AM

I was able to get sound into my ssr and thus it came out through my surround sound speakers. However, the receiver was only telling me it was getting stereo sound. It was still cool.

I was able to get video on the big screen, but the Windows desktop was horribly sized and it would nto allow me to resize it. I was dumbfounded. However, when I went into the Media Center portal, I was able to select some video and watch it and it was appropriately sized. In fact, it looked very, very good. Along w/ the sound (though only two channel stereo) I was quite pleased. I think I might like htis =]

Any ideas on how to fix the above two problems?

Final question... I have to upgrade the video card in my HTPC (I currently have an ATI Radeon X300 PCI-E). I have two choices and I'd love to get some input on them.

First, the ATI Radeon X800 Pro PCI-E w/ 256MB of Ram. (http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2707477) The only downside is that its a refurbished video card. Manufacturer refurbished. Its $179.

The other option is an eVGA GeForce 6800GT, PCI-E card; it has an Arctic Cooling NV5 Silencer™ silent cooler installed, normally a $40 addition. This is a used card from a friend of mine. He wants $200.

The other thing is, I'm getting an Avermedia A180 HDTV tuner card this week. Its in route from Tigerdirect.

Thanks for the help. I'm almost totally and forever immersed in HDTV and I love it.

The best video resolution to use is not one of the presets through your HTPC front end, but 1776x1000, 30hz, set through Windows itself before firing up Media Portal. Your HDTV will see this as a standard 1080i HD signal (but with overscan kept to a minimum). Do this via the ATI icon in your system tray. If there's a choice for 1776x1000, use it. If there's a choice for "optimize resolution," use that. Then use Media Portal's "My settings" to completely remove overscan while Media Portal is running.

Disclaimer: My HDTV has no DVI input so I'm using a DVI to component adapter. This may not make a difference or it may render any advice I give here irrelevant.

I'm also having an issue with 5.1 channel DVD's and .mpg files playing as Pro Logic through my receiver when using Media Portal as the front end. 5.1 channel .avi files play fine in excellent 5.1 channel sound. When using PowerDVD by itself without Media Portal, DVD's and .mpg's play in 5.1 channel fine and dandy. So I'm thinking I just have something configured wrong in Media Portal.

I'm kind of surprised that your X300 needs to be upgraded. I'm using a Radeon 9800 (nowhere near state of the art anymore) and having no problem.

jimglobe

09-25-05, 12:01 PM

phatty

09-25-05, 12:46 PM

I just called Chater to inquire about the DVR prices. I live in St Louis. I currently have HDTV through Charter. I was told the DVR prices are 9.99 for the basic unit, and 26.99 for the Moximate 2 room system. Is this correct? or did I get a bad CSR?

That seems a little high but I keep waiting for someone who actually has the service to post what there bill looks like once they get it. I was quoted an additional 12.99 a month to upgrade my normal DVR to a 2-room moxi box. So that would be 9.99(current amount I pay extra)+12.99(Quoted amount my bill would go up)=22.98 extra a month total that I would be paying to have the 2 room moxi vs no moxi.

Anyone who has the service, please post your prices and how they get itemized on the bill to confirm the exact cost of the moxi service. I know the service is still new so probably the earliest adopters still have not recieved a bill yet that includes the Moxi Mate service. That or the pro-rated charges may screw up/confuse the true charges. Right now my bill gets itemized out and shows a 6.99 a month moxi charge because of some billing changes they did a awhile ago that changed how things were layed out on my bill. My total monthly cost was the same, it just gets built in my "Biggest Value Package" cost with an additional 6.99 on top.

Thanks,
Phatty

abcward

09-25-05, 01:04 PM

wtf is the Rams game not in widescreen???

dominicr

09-25-05, 01:07 PM

No rams hd today? some yutz's somewhere are not paying attention.

abcward

09-25-05, 01:10 PM

Anyone know the CBS phone number?

WinstonSmith

09-25-05, 01:15 PM

CBS isn't going the Rams game in HD.

As for why its not widescreen....

jimglobe

09-25-05, 01:15 PM

Rams not in HD???? Someone is asleep or what????

abcward

09-25-05, 01:15 PM

sorry you are wrong....CBS IS doing the Rams game...

Numbski

09-25-05, 01:16 PM

First page of this thread I think...?

Gonna go look here in a sec. Yeah, I'm pretty sure someone's screwed up.

elgibby

09-25-05, 01:18 PM

Apologies for taking up space on this thread with this, but I'm unable to find any reviews of Charter Telephone on the Web, and this is a place where St. Louis area folks hang out.
I'm considering Charter Telephone, wondering about reliability, how people like it, any questions I ought to ask (rates, equipment, etc), any reason to run away quickly (like dealing with Charter CSRs for Moxi/cable issues isn't bad enough).
If anyone has the time to PM me on this, it would be appreciated...
thx
barry

abcward

09-25-05, 01:20 PM

elgibby,

email me at abcward@yahoo.com or instant message me at abcdspot and ill give you the lowdown on Charter Telephony...

Numbski

09-25-05, 01:21 PM

Word from KMOV:

Their feed from new york is only giving them the 3pm game in HD, not the noon game. They had no answer as to why this is.. :(

dominicr

09-25-05, 01:22 PM

Is CBS sports low budget? Can't afford enough HD cameras to go around for the rams game?

duvy56

09-25-05, 01:23 PM

What a freaking joke! Home opener! No HD! Who's the numb nuts responsible for this?

abcward

09-25-05, 01:28 PM

I don't even understand why the Rams are on CBS this week anyways. I thought the home games for NFC teams were on Fox and the home games for AFC teams were on CBS. It figures we get stuck on this goofy channel.

Everybody Loves Raymond is in HD, but not the NFL??? priceless.

Numbski

09-25-05, 01:28 PM

Eh...as ugly as this is so far, I'm not sure if it's the lack of HD or the lackluster play....

Numbski

09-25-05, 01:30 PM

They started that a few years ago. The visitor's network gets the national broadcast. NFC is Fox, and AFC is CBS, so since the Titans are the visitors, we get CBS.

The odd thing is that, they ARE doing the game in HD, they just are giving KMOV the HD feed, which makes no sense at all, thus what I was told when I was called.

dominicr

09-25-05, 01:31 PM

Eh...as ugly as this is so far, I'm not sure if it's the lack of HD or the lackluster play....
yea, offense today would look bad in HD too.

dominicr

09-25-05, 01:33 PM

WinstonSmith

09-25-05, 01:46 PM

CBS has been advertising their slate of NFL games all week.

The slate of games w/ HD NEVER included the Rams vs. Titans.

It is not being broadcast in HD anywhere.

Numbski

09-25-05, 01:48 PM

Okay, I guess we're just spoiled by Fox doing ALL of their games in 720p.

I had gotten the idea that CBS had followed suit, only doing their games in 1080i.

abcward

09-25-05, 01:50 PM

CBS sucks.

kugumby

09-25-05, 01:56 PM

I'm with Numbski. I thought all NFL games were in HD. I just don't get this at all.

WinstonSmith

09-25-05, 01:57 PM

Here is the slate of CBS HD games today:

Oakland Raiders vs. Philadelphia Eagles 1:00 PM CBS (1080i)
Cincinnati Bengals vs. Chicago Bears 1:00 PM CBS (1080i)
New England Patriots vs. Pittsburgh Steelers 4:15 PM CBS (1080i)

In contrast, here are the HD games FOX is broadcasting today:

New Orleans Saints vs. Minnesota Vikings 1:00 PM FOX (720p)
Atlanta Falcons vs. Buffalo Bills 1:00 PM FOX (720p)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers vs. Green Bay Packers 1:00 PM FOX (720p)
Carolina Panthers vs. Miami Dolphins 1:00 PM FOX (720p)
Arizona Cardinals vs. Seattle Seahawks 4:00 PM FOX (720p)
Dallas Cowboys vs. San Francisco 49ers 4:00 PM FOX (720p)

abcward

09-25-05, 01:59 PM

In this day and age, every major sporting event should be in HD. Especially the biggest, most popular sport of the NFL. This is big business....Fox seems to get this more than CBS does, obviously. And yet, every single stupid mindnumbing sitcom that CBS rolls out is in HD...

mjohnson71

09-25-05, 02:05 PM

Is CBS sports low budget? Can't afford enough HD cameras to go around for the rams game?

They're stuck with doing 3 games in HD a week. I don't know if it's a truck issue or a satellite issue.

jimglobe

09-25-05, 02:26 PM

hizhonor

09-25-05, 03:32 PM

I just called Chater to inquire about the DVR prices. I live in St Louis. I currently have HDTV through Charter. I was told the DVR prices are 9.99 for the basic unit, and 26.99 for the Moximate 2 room system. Is this correct? or did I get a bad CSR?

Municipal officials in Ferguson recently received a letter from Charter announcing "Charter Multi Room" it says in part:

"Charter Multi Room will be available on a limited quantity basis only to our current Charter DVR customers. Current customers can exchange their Charter DVR for a new version Charter Multi Room DVR package which includes Moxi Mate. The Moxi Mate is not compatible with the first generation Charter DVR. Charter Multi Room will be made available later this year to all Charter customers.

This new Charter Multi Room solution provides a savings of $6.99 per month to Charter customers who currently have two Charter DVR's.

Charter Multi Room (2 Room) -- One DVR receiver and one Moxi Mate with interactive services and two remotes = $26.89."

Typo's are mine, and the letter is signed by Neal Gilb, Government Relations Manager, St. Louis Metro

Steve
(no longer a Municipal official, but still has friends in high places) :rolleyes:

hizhonor

09-25-05, 04:32 PM

kugumby

09-25-05, 05:54 PM

Anybody notice at the end of the Rams game, when the credits were rolling, it said, "High Definition broadcast sponsored by Sony"? I guess they just put that at the end of every broadcast "just in case".

Robert Simandl

09-25-05, 06:34 PM

rbkb

09-25-05, 07:55 PM

:mad: I am still amazed at the misinformation that is out there about HDTV. Today, we went to Best Buy in Brentwood to look at a new HD flat-screen (either plasma or LCD). Saw the new Sony Bravia (SP?) and ask the saleswoman if it had an ATSC tuner and if it was digital cable ready (DCR). She told me that she thought it had both, but I would still need an outside HD source (D*, E* or Charter) to get my HD stations. I told her that I still could get the local broadcasts (2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 30, 46) over the air with just an attenna, correct? She said no, I couldn't. None of the TV's they sold could get over the air HD signals with an attenna. I said "Isn't that the purpose of ATSC?" She went and got her manager.

This guy was a real treat. After a few minutes of discussion, he proceeded to tell me that there were no TV's that had a built-in HD tuner (apparently ATSC in Brentwood's staff's mind only equals non-HD digital). I said that KSDK Channel 5-1 was a digital signal, in HD resolution. Shouldn't the ATSC tuner pick this signal up? His response was that all tuners, including his Direct TV's NTSC tuner got KSDK's Channel 5-1, and 5-2. He said that he was good friends with Randy the engineer at KSDK, and Randy had told him that only an NTSC tuner was necessary for the subchannels, and that KSDK's HD signal could only be picked up via Charter or satellite. (of course, Randy also forgets to flip the HD feed switch every night!!! :)) I went back to check the Direct TV tuner, fully realizing that it was an ATSC HD tuner although the manager claimed it was only an NTSC one. I showed the sales person that it was ATSC, and he said "whatever". People are spending tens of thousands on TV's from this company, and they don't know what the hell they are talking about!!!!

I was so pissed, I went to the Crestwood store, where Mark the manager set me straight. He was a very knowledgable guy, and told me that I could get HD signals OTA with just an UHF antenna with any tuner with an ATSC tuner. One think I did learn form Mark is that an ATSC tuner is not required for a cable card, just one that is QAM. Is this true? Will you still get the HD Charter signal with a DCR TV with no ATSC?

Or am I totally incorrect about OTA and ATSC tuners??? It wouldn't be the first time I am wrong (just ask my wife!) Thanks.

RANT OFF

Tom Grooms

09-26-05, 12:12 AM

You're looking for knowledgable sales people in Best Buy? LMAO

btw, All DCR (digital cable ready) TV's are ATSC equipped.

skippy_rq

09-26-05, 12:23 AM

I just called and got the deal. The very capable CSR first explained that this promotion was for those coming in from satellite, but is being offered to existing customer who have heard about the promotion and are willing to come into the office to sign a contract. A bit of whining on my part, and she prepared the contract while I was on the phone. It should arrive in the mail in a few days.If it maters, this is considered one of their retention programs.

One difference: The digital receiver mentioned in your package listing must refer to the regular digital box. Being a HD customer, my price was $6.99 more. I'm not complaining. Anytime I can save $20+ per month with a 5 minute phone call, I'm all grins.

Steve

The rep I spoke with said they mail the contracts out and I got mine on Friday. The HD receiver is supposed to be 3.00 more since the box is listed at 9.99 and you get a 6.99 credit with the biggest package. I fully recommend getting the Moxi if you are going HD. Well worth it unless you need the DVI.

As far as Charter phone service goes, if you can get SBC I recommend that route. Same price per month $39.99 with unlimited LD. However, if you are in my situation and have to go with CenturyTel, then your best bet is Charter. I just got a sweet promotion when I called to get a line for my daughter. I was offered the $39.99 deal for $19.99 for a year. I got Metro Calling Area, Unlimited LD, Caller ID, Call Waiting ID, Call Waiting, Speed Dial 8, and Anonymous Call Rejection. I asked our referral service at work (SBC) and was told that we should be able to match that price. That remains to be seen though. Now if you get all 3 of Charter's services then you can get an even further discount. However they do not have a Triple Play package if you have 5mb service like myself. Seeing as how I like my 5mb. I can live with paying a little more.

hizhonor

09-26-05, 07:47 AM

The rep I spoke with said they mail the contracts out and I got mine on Friday. The HD receiver is supposed to be 3.00 more since the box is listed at 9.99 and you get a 6.99 credit with the biggest package. I fully recommend getting the Moxi if you are going HD. Well worth it unless you need the DVI.

Was your package pricing detailed in the contracts?

I'm a huge Tivo fan, but have been monitoring the MOXI thread since it started. I'd really like the benefits of time shifting my HD now, but until MOXI addresses its storage issues in a significant way (and the 160GB drive in the Mate isn't that significant!), and tidies up their software glitches I'm content in holding off for the stand alone box that TIVO is supposed to release early next year.

Steve

skippy_rq

09-26-05, 10:52 AM

Was your package pricing detailed in the contracts?

I'm a huge Tivo fan, but have been monitoring the MOXI thread since it started. I'd really like the benefits of time shifting my HD now, but until MOXI addresses its storage issues in a significant way (and the 160GB drive in the Mate isn't that significant!), and tidies up their software glitches I'm content in holding off for the stand alone box that TIVO is supposed to release early next year.

Steve

The package price of $47.99 was in there multiple times.

The 160gb is not in the Mate, it is in the main Moxi box. The mate is just a "dumb terminal" you could say. The 160 does wonders over the old Moxi. I am recording every season pass in HD and don't have a single issue.

Here is the recording specs from moxi.com
Single-room DVR (80 GB)
Up to 51 hours SD digital
Up to 21 hours SD analog
Up to 11 hours HD

Multi-room DVR (160 GB)
Up to 107 hours SD digital
Up to 44 hours SD analog
Up to 23 hours HD

skippy_rq

09-26-05, 11:12 AM

Good read over at MSNBC about the cable industry's drive to move to digital from analog.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9480466/

PWSHER

09-26-05, 11:20 AM

That seems a little high but I keep waiting for someone who actually has the service to post what there bill looks like once they get it. I was quoted an additional 12.99 a month to upgrade my normal DVR to a 2-room moxi box. So that would be 9.99(current amount I pay extra)+12.99(Quoted amount my bill would go up)=22.98 extra a month total that I would be paying to have the 2 room moxi vs no moxi.

Anyone who has the service, please post your prices and how they get itemized on the bill to confirm the exact cost of the moxi service. I know the service is still new so probably the earliest adopters still have not recieved a bill yet that includes the Moxi Mate service. That or the pro-rated charges may screw up/confuse the true charges. Right now my bill gets itemized out and shows a 6.99 a month moxi charge because of some billing changes they did a awhile ago that changed how things were layed out on my bill. My total monthly cost was the same, it just gets built in my "Biggest Value Package" cost with an additional 6.99 on top.

Thanks,
Phatty

I should be getting my bill any day.
It is very hard to itemize everything because they sometimes give you credits for combining. Anyhow, I called today just to make sure my contract that I signed and sent back had arrived.

I have lterally everything they offer(except the optional expanded sports tier)
High speed internet.
The $47.99 deal that includes all the premium channels
I have the family information tier at $4
The high def tier
and the Moxi and it's Mate
for a grand total of $129.16/ month.

This is a few dollers more than I was paying a couple of months ago before I got the Moxi alone. So the two year contract deal has about payed for the MoxiMate.

I asked him the cost of the Moxi-Mate and he said $6.85( I think he said digital converter service??)+$2.99(digital service?) + $1.50(Mate) and $15.33(DVR) for a total of $26.67. I asked him how much for just Moxi and he said "$16.95". I have no idea how they come up with these numbers but I love my Moxi and HD.....I'll let you know the breakdown when I get the bill.

hanjke

09-26-05, 11:43 AM

I just called Chater to inquire about the DVR prices. I live in St Louis. I currently have HDTV through Charter. I was told the DVR prices are 9.99 for the basic unit, and 26.99 for the Moximate 2 room system. Is this correct? or did I get a bad CSR?

One thing to check on- I believe the basic HD programming package is included in the price of the MOXIs.

-Hanjke

hanjke

09-26-05, 11:46 AM

dweebe

09-26-05, 01:17 PM

Good read over at MSNBC about the cable industry's drive to move to digital from analog.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9480466/

So is Charter ever going to get around to the 2nd and 3rd stages of their digital conversion? The first stage was nice (TNT, ESPN, G4 etc) but so far no news on the long-delayed later stages.

abcward

09-26-05, 01:25 PM

So is Charter ever going to get around to the 2nd and 3rd stages of their digital conversion? The first stage was nice (TNT, ESPN, G4 etc) but so far no news on the long-delayed later stages.

Rumor has it that the remainder of the digital conversion is happening VERY VERY soon....

RaceTripper

09-26-05, 01:45 PM

... VERY VERY soon....

You're talking about cable? :D :eek: :D :eek: :D

Saluki

09-26-05, 02:06 PM

Rumor has it that the remainder of the digital conversion is happening VERY VERY soon....

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Saluki

09-26-05, 02:14 PM

Does anyone have any experience with Quality Sight & Sound in South County? They carry a couple of audio & video lines that I am interested in checking out. I have not yet set foot in their store & was just wondering if anyone has had any dealings there.

StockInv

09-26-05, 02:35 PM

Just a followup note about my MoxiMate install. Initially the picture was horrible.
Then I remembered to check the "settings menu". Sure enough, the box was not set to 1080i or 720P. The installer did not do any setup whatsoever, so those getting the Mate might want to remember that. I was getting HD channels at 480i. This was the reason for the poor picture. Now my HD picture is back to its glorious self. However, the MoxiMate picture is still a little worse than before when I had a direct cable, analog connection.

dweebe

09-26-05, 05:00 PM

Rumor has it that the remainder of the digital conversion is happening VERY VERY soon....

No offense Bruce, but when Charter says very very soon; it's like saying the next Ice Age is coming very very soon. Their concept of time is a lot different than the real world.

But thanks for the update. Hopefully it means in the next month or two. I've been on the old Moxi (not the new Moxi mate: I've only got one TV) waiting list for close to a month now. Would be nice to have the longer recording time and better picture that comes with a digital input.

cagmo

09-26-05, 05:07 PM

For future reference, you can check out which games will be on HD at this website:

http://www.directvsports.com/Schedules/Packages/NFLSundayTicket/

If they are in HD on Sunday Ticket, they will be on in HD on Charter (and OTA), in my experience.

The Titan's game was never listed as HD. The good new is that we're playing the Giants this week. Zero percent chance Fox will go SD into New York.

Saluki

09-26-05, 05:12 PM

No offense Bruce, but when Charter says very very soon; it's like saying the next Ice Age is coming very very soon. Their concept of time is a lot different than the real world.

But thanks for the update. Hopefully it means in the next month or two. I've been on the old Moxi (not the new Moxi mate: I've only got one TV) waiting list for close to a month now. Would be nice to have the longer recording time and better picture that comes with a digital input.

Do not doubt Bruce's link to the inside track :cool:. His track record is very good, especially considering the nature of the company it regards.

turls

09-26-05, 05:21 PM

Do we know if we are going to get any Blues games in HD from KPLR-DT? It would be only right, since we will probably get blacked out of numerous HDNet games, and it looks like Fox Sports Midwest still isn't going to produce any HD games. What is up with that anyway? So Charter botching HD and not buying HD content from FSN is preventing me from being able to see Special Events HD feeds on D*?

dweebe

09-26-05, 05:28 PM

Do not doubt Bruce's link to the inside track :cool:. His track record is very good, especially considering the nature of the company it regards.

True. He has been on the money before. I'm not doubting him or the information his source has. I'm just doubting Charter being able to actually execute the upgrade.

Heck: could they be trying for tomorrow (9/27)?!?!?!?!

abcward

09-26-05, 05:41 PM

FYI - I am happy to pass on any info that I am allowed to pass on. My Charter insider always passes on very good information but every date can be pushed back due to unforeseen issues. Example- during the storms last month which caused power outages...these outages caused all-digital to be pushed back since Charter already had a ton of services calls on the power outages.

As far as the Blues go, I personally have not heard anything about WB11-HD doing any Blues in HD. I would hope they would but I have no idea if they are technically equipped to do so. And the problem with no HD from FSMW is not FSMW, it is Charter and to a lesser extent D* or E*. FSMW was ready to roll out FSMW-HD in April when the Cardinals season started, however Charter and Fox Sports never came to an agreement. D* and E* are both tight on bandwidth for adding new HD channels and won't waste that bandwidth on a regional sports channel. So, I'm guessing...until Charter considers FSMW-HD as a priority, I highly doubt we'll see any Blues games on FSMW in HD.

phatty

09-26-05, 06:20 PM

Looking online at my most recent bill that closed today and Charter Decided to enclose a complete price list with the Bill.

It labels
DVR Service Fee 6.99
DVR Stand Alone Rental = 3 over standard box
= 9.99 more a month compared to standard Digital Service.

Multi Room DVR Service Fee 15.33
Mutli Room Hardware Primary - 3 over standard
Multi Room Mate - 1.50
= a total of 19.83 a month extra for the Moxi + Moxi Mate over standard Digital Receiver.

Those cost assume you trade in your default/included Digital cable box thats how much additional you would be paying per month to have the moxi.

The only other fee that could raise it even more since some people have been quoted different numbers is that Integrated Interactive Service fee is labeled as ranging from 2.99-4.99. So That could be a misc. fee that gets thrown in.

So at least I finally have seen some Black and white numbers for cost. Sorry to say thats to expensive for my blood because I have no need for the mate I just want the additional hard drive space. Also sorry to say that due to my work & school schedule this semester I had to downgrade all my shows to STandard analog recording instead of HD due to this lack of storage space. Damn you Moxi & Charter!!!... That all digital roll out would be a huge plus right about now. I can deal with no 5.1 surround sound on most of the shows, but the picture quality of analog is crap and I hate recording the analog stations now. BTW, I don't own an HDTV I was just trying to enjoy the better picture & sound on my standard TV. If I truely had a HDTV I would have been forced to upgrade to the new moxi box to keep all my recordings in HD.

Phatty