I thought I saw on Fox News channel someone predicting 2006 trends and I think he said Internet on TV would be one of them. Will this happen? Would anyone think this would be a good idea? If their would be a button on the satellite or Cable remote that had Web or Internet on it?

Also, does anyone know when DirecTV will launch their own HD DVR and when DirecTV will have the St. Louis local channels in HD? Thanks, Craig.

I thought I saw on Fox News channel someone predicting 2006 trends and I think he said Internet on TV would be one of them. Will this happen? Would anyone think this would be a good idea? If their would be a button on the satellite or Cable remote that had Web or Internet on it?
Dish currently has a "greyed-out" Internet option on the menu's of their SAT/OTA HD DVR receivers. It is said to be for future use. It's been there for some time now, I guess over a year or so, but still remains unavailable.
I remember reading something about Directv reaching an agreement for their new DVR Plus system, including a video-on-demand with NBC, which is an internet based application. Though that's not exactly pressing a remote button and getting online, it seems the integration process has begun and it's only a matter of time.

Even though DISH shows that they broadcast the NFL Game of The Week in HD. I have never been able to receive it. I called the CSR and she said that they do not offer that channel in HD even though it is listed on my channel guide. Has anyone ever been able to watch the NFL Game of the Week in HD?
KC vs NYG is currently on Dish 9464 in HD.

KC vs NYG is currently on Dish 9464 in HD.

KDG454 are you actually watching the game? I have nothing and the CSR has, again, told me that there is no 9464 channel in their guide. :rolleyes:

I have an extra Xbox 360 from Sam's club if anyone local is interested (I'm in Chesterfield through the holiday's). I was going to put it on ebay after Christmas to help pay for the one that I kept, but figured someone here might be looking for one that wanted to avoid risky auctions and overpriced next day shipping. It's new/sealed, the premium version with an extra wireless controller and play & charge kit.

PM me if interested (with an offer) and we can arrange something to meet up before Sunday. Just for reference, it was ~$490 after tax for the bundle. Not looking to make a killing, just a fair price for my time standing in line. ;)

I thought I saw on Fox News channel someone predicting 2006 trends and I think he said Internet on TV would be one of them. Will this happen? Would anyone think this would be a good idea? If their would be a button on the satellite or Cable remote that had Web or Internet on it?

Also, does anyone know when DirecTV will launch their own HD DVR and when DirecTV will have the St. Louis local channels in HD? Thanks, Craig.


Well you can already turn any computer into a tv receiver / DVR -- personally I don't want, nor would I really pay extra for, web integrated TV. There was, after all, WebTV and it didn't fare too well.

KDG454 are you actually watching the game? I have nothing and the CSR has, again, told me that there is no 9464 channel in their guide. :rolleyes:
Yes, I watched it tonight. It only airs from 8-9pm/CST on Wed & Thurs, but 9464 is always on the guide. It says "NFL Game of the Week-Wed/Thurs 9PM/EST." At 8pm/CST on Wed & Thurs, while it's airing, it says "NFL Game of the Week." If you like, I'll snap a pix tomorrow night during the broadcast, with the banner up, and you can send it to customer service ;)

First off first post in this thread. :cool:

I have read probably 50 ppgs of it and it is a gold mine of information (you all know that). Thanks to all the people that have helped us noobins.

With the research of the forum, along with the help of my local Ultimate Electronics representative I went out a couple weeks ago and got myself a new TV. I chose the Sony GW 50" LCD (KDF-E50A10). While in the store, they tried to get me to purchase the SXRD, and boy was I close. In the store it seemed tons better than anything else (save the mistu 1080p models). Luckily my fiance at the time kept me rational and I took home the A10. Once I got it home I was blown away. This TV was AMAZING. I don't think there is a better TV out there for the money except the 1080p sets, and definately not worth twice the money I paid. I am extremely happy with this and have been officially bitten by the HD bug after telling charter to flip the switch on my moxi.

By the way, I was very pleased with the Ultimate Electronics experience, so much that I went back 2 weeks later and bought my father in law a HT system for Christmas. They are competitive with thier pricing, not pushy, and much more knowledgeable than your regular retail stores (although who isn't :)). Kudos to UE.

Just wanted to say Hi to everyone and hope to talk lots with all of you.
-D

...Also, has anyone else had trouble with Moxi'd programs lately? In the past few weeks I have noticed that anything I have moxied the quality has been TERRIBLE. There are audio skips and digital pixellation and sometimes it will just stop for a second or two. It is to the point where it isn't watchable. This isn't on just one channel and has happened many times during shows such as "the apprentice", "my name is earl", "the office", and "arrestted development". I may be able to make a correllation that this started when I had them add my HD package but I'm not sure. Also, the kicker is I rec. "the office" in high def last night (while I watched it - only difference) and it was fine!

TIA
-D

Not to cross post or anything, but if any of you gurus can help out....

My Speaker Placement Question (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=620451)


Thanks,
D

Craig,

I didn't see the FOX News story you're referring to, but I'm doubtful that web surfing over your TV is what they meant by Internet TV. As black_macleod points out, this was a trend around 10 years ago that never really take hold.

More likely this FOX story is probably referring to IPTV, which is the delivery of subscription TV services using a specific IP protocol over a proprietary network. Both Verizon (FiOS) and SBC (Project Lightspeed) have plans to offer IPTV services using the fiber optic networks they're beginning to deploy.

Progress on this front so far is slow, partly because the networks are not complete and because local government authorities are standing in the way of the sale of these services where they could be made available, claiming the telecos need to negotiate and pay a franchise fee for each town or city where they wish to offer such a service.

A recent Wall Street Journal story illustrates that these franchise fees are just a "shakedown" by another name.

For example, the Journal reported that in Tampa, Verizon received a list of demands totaling $13 million that included money for an emergency communications network, digital editing equipment and video cameras to film a math-tutoring program for schools. In New York, Verizon was asked for seed money for planting wildflowers and to provide video infrastructure needed to televise a Christmas celebration. Arlington County, Virginia, wants the company to string fiber to every traffic light in the community so that it can monitor traffic flow. Holliston, Massachusetts is requiring free TV for every house of worship and a 10% discount for all senior citizens.

I don't understand where local governments get the authority to demand these sort of "fees." Yes, cable television franchise fees made sense years ago when a company had to come in and dig up all the streets and yards of residents to lay their own networks. At that time, it didn't make economic sense for residents or companies to have multiple cable providers in a community, due to inconvenience and the level of investment it required.

Today, with telephone companies upgrading existing networks that allow them to offer IPTV and other sorts of new network-based services, a local televison franchise fee and local regulation is an anachronism that limits competition and unnecessarily adds to both business and consumer costs.

In my opinion, the FCC should be actively encouraging the development of IPTV as a means of increasing competition and pushing down prices. For more than three decades, local and federal governments have done a miserable job regulating the cable industry, and the rise of IPTV should be encouraged as a first step in getting the government out of the regulation of this industry.

Invidious,

You should probably be happy that you didn't buy one of the 1080p sets now on sale.

The vast majority of these "1080p televisions" cannot accept a 1080p signal. This is definitely the case with the Sony SXRDs you looked at. The Mitsubishis supposedly can accept 1080p over the RGB input, but not via DVI/HDMI, which seems more than a little pointless.

Of course, there aren't any 1080p programming sources today, but assuming that HD-format DVD (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) eventually comes along in a 1080p format, these early model 1080p sets will not be able to take full advantage of high-definition DVD players.

Another reason these sets should be able to accept 1080p is that the internal scaling built into these sets can be highly variable, and it would be helpful to have the option of using an external processor/scaler to bypass the built-in circuitry.

I believe that TV manufacturers and retailers are going to have a major problem with 1080p early adopters when more of them eventually become aware of this limitation.

Even though DISH shows that they broadcast the NFL Game of The Week in HD. I have never been able to receive it. I called the CSR and she said that they do not offer that channel in HD even though it is listed on my channel guide. Has anyone ever been able to watch the NFL Game of the Week in HD?
I watch at least a little of it each week. The HD quality is not up to par with ESPN/CBS/FOX but it is there.

To be honest, I'm not watching anything on KSDK now, so I'm not planning to make any further effort to get them to improve their HD broadcast. KMOV has shows I like and they seem to be doing a pretty good job now.

Nothing specifically aimed at you, but you've mentioned this at least a couple times. What happens when something is on that you do want to watch--isn't there at least a chance you might be interested in the winter olympics or daily local HD on the news when they roll that out?

I think its better to think ahead, for some reason KSDK has an odd mix of being on the cutting edge (news, Thanksgiving parade, time-shifted HD) and incompetence. I hope not everybody here is giving up on them.

Thanks for the info. The person on Fox news could have been talking about IPTV. He also talked about Yahoo parterning with Tivo. Do you know when DirecTV will launch the St. Louis locals in HD? Thanks, Craig.

Craig,

I didn't see the FOX News story you're referring to, but I'm doubtful that web surfing over your TV is what they meant by Internet TV. As black_macleod points out, this was a trend around 10 years ago that never really take hold.

More likely this FOX story is probably referring to IPTV, which is the delivery of subscription TV services using a specific IP protocol over a proprietary network. Both Verizon (FiOS) and SBC (Project Lightspeed) have plans to offer IPTV services using the fiber optic networks they're beginning to deploy.

Progress on this front so far is slow, partly because the networks are not complete and because local government authorities are standing in the way of the sale of these services where they could be made available, claiming the telecos need to negotiate and pay a franchise fee for each town or city where they wish to offer such a service.

A recent Wall Street Journal story illustrates that these franchise fees are just a "shakedown" by another name.

For example, the Journal reported that in Tampa, Verizon received a list of demands totaling $13 million that included money for an emergency communications network, digital editing equipment and video cameras to film a math-tutoring program for schools. In New York, Verizon was asked for seed money for planting wildflowers and to provide video infrastructure needed to televise a Christmas celebration. Arlington County, Virginia, wants the company to string fiber to every traffic light in the community so that it can monitor traffic flow. Holliston, Massachusetts is requiring free TV for every house of worship and a 10% discount for all senior citizens.

I don't understand where local governments get the authority to demand these sort of "fees." Yes, cable television franchise fees made sense years ago when a company had to come in and dig up all the streets and yards of residents to lay their own networks. At that time, it didn't make economic sense for residents or companies to have multiple cable providers in a community, due to inconvenience and the level of investment it required.

Today, with telephone companies upgrading existing networks that allow them to offer IPTV and other sorts of new network-based services, a local televison franchise fee and local regulation is an anachronism that limits competition and unnecessarily adds to both business and consumer costs.

In my opinion, the FCC should be actively encouraging the development of IPTV as a means of increasing competition and pushing down prices. For more than three decades, local and federal governments have done a miserable job regulating the cable industry, and the rise of IPTV should be encouraged as a first step in getting the government out of the regulation of this industry.

Craig,

I haven't seen any official estimates for the St. Louis rollout of HD locals on DirecTV.

On the other hand, I have seen some gloomy projections here on AVS and elsewhere that talked about end-2006. But unless hardware availability suddenly becomes a big issue for DirecTV, I would expect to see St. Louis digital locals by April.

Bear in mind that's just a gut feel estimate.

Nothing specifically aimed at you, but you've mentioned this at least a couple times. What happens when something is on that you do want to watch--isn't there at least a chance you might be interested in the winter olympics or daily local HD on the news when they roll that out?

I think its better to think ahead, for some reason KSDK has an odd mix of being on the cutting edge (news, Thanksgiving parade, time-shifted HD) and incompetence. I hope not everybody here is giving up on them.

I'm not making a religion of not watching kSDk. I'm not watching it now. Will I watch it later? Maybe. It's just not that big a deal. Quite frankly, other than motorsports on SPEED, Cardinals baseball, and the Stargate shows on SciFi, I could pretty much care less about TV at the moment.

Cool. Thanks for the info. I was reading about IPTV it sounds like its not really Internet and its just something like if your watching a show you would be able to click on something and get information about who is in the show, who made the show what other shows the actors or people were in? Is IPTV something like that? I some IPTV reports that looked like IPTV would use Microsoft's Windows CE 5.0 and that has Internet Explorer. Other IPTV reports showed embedded we browsers. Is DirecTV doing IPTV? If so when would that launch? Thanks.

QUOTE=DroptheRemote]Craig,

I haven't seen any official estimates for the St. Louis rollout of HD locals on DirecTV.

On the other hand, I have seen some gloomy projections here on AVS and elsewhere that talked about end-2006. But unless hardware availability suddenly becomes a big issue for DirecTV, I would expect to see St. Louis digital locals by April.

Bear in mind that's just a gut feel estimate.[/QUOTE]

I should probably just keep this to myself, but I continue to be puzzled by how much interest there is for seeing the local news in HD.

I've lived all around the world (London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Sydney, NYC and SF) and the single reliable constant in all of that moving around was the utter worthlessness of local TV news.

The only thing that makes sense to me about HD local news is that kSDk would the first local broadcaster to INFLICT it upon the viewing public.

You should NOT keep this to yourself. Local news is a JOKE. I watch Fox2 in the morning for pure laughs and utter disbelief. I love it when they just sit around and read newspaper headlines. And Tim Ezel (sp?) does some fine reporting!

HDTV is great for - sports and movies.

Speaking of the nasty reds on KSDK-DT, did anybody see Pam Anderson in a Mrs. Claus outfit on Leno Monday night? I had not noticed before (I'm behind keeping up here so I hadn't noticed it mentioned until today), but that sure was a disgrace.

If anybody gets anything organized on the KSDK-DT fight, just PM me and I'll do what I can.

I should probably just keep this to myself, but I continue to be puzzled by how much interest there is for seeing the local news in HD.

I've lived all around the world (London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Sydney, NYC and SF) and the single reliable constant in all of that moving around was the utter worthlessness of local TV news.

The only thing that makes sense to me about HD local news is that kSDk would the first local broadcaster to INFLICT it upon the viewing public.

Actually I don't watch the local news, but I usually Tivo any HD that has a potential to have a segment I might be interested in. No I would not watch it live but I might Tivo it for some possible interesting footage.

Besides, you're missing the big picture here. I would think since local news is the cash cows for the local broadcasters, it would make them wake up and get their heads out of their rears on some technical issues. Which should benefit the monopolized national programming I am interested in.

I should probably just keep this to myself, but I continue to be puzzled by how much interest there is for seeing the local news in HD.

Doug, you know I was wondering if it was just me thinking "big fishing deal" about HD news.

I want HD movies, baseball, and motorsports. About the only motorsports in HD is that which I really don't want...aaarrgghhh!!! Baby steps I guess. Unfortunately we have to deal with the poop too.

I have an extra Xbox 360...
Likewise, but with 10 games and 3 accessories bundled.

I'm just hoping local news in HD from kSDk will mean they'll pay more attention to their HD signal quality. Maybe they'll hire a few more engineers or people with brains instead of the (insulting term) they have now.

They're really starting to pimp the HD news. They ran a full 30 second ad during Leno last night.
(BTW, Tea Leoni was on Leno last night. She's quite the MILF.) :D

I'm just hoping local news in HD from kSDk will mean they'll pay more attention to their HD signal quality.

I would think if sports programming doesn't motivate them to improve, news programming won't either.

Do you know when DirecTV will launch the St. Louis locals in HD? Thanks, Craig.

I talked to a very friendly CSR last week and asked about this. She looked it up and
told me it is listed as Spring 2006. She was like, well that is good news because
usually there is no time frame in there.

I would think if sports programming doesn't motivate them to improve, news programming won't either.

What, you don't think people will call and complain and tell them Karen Foss has little
red dots all over her face...... Then again, after seeing her in HD, people might like
the little red dots.

What, you don't think people will call and complain and tell them Karen Foss has little
red dots all over her face...... Then again, after seeing her in HD, people might like
the little red dots.

People may call, I just don't think KSDK will do anything about. They haven't shown interest in fixing things so far. Why start now and ruin the perfect record.

I'm bet you all big money Karen Foss' camera gets the resolution cranked down and a couple of softening filters installed.

Cool. Thanks for the info. I was reading about IPTV it sounds like its not really Internet and its just something like if your watching a show you would be able to click on something and get information about who is in the show, who made the show what other shows the actors or people were in? Is IPTV something like that? I some IPTV reports that looked like IPTV would use Microsoft's Windows CE 5.0 and that has Internet Explorer. Other IPTV reports showed embedded we browsers. Is DirecTV doing IPTV? If so when would that launch? Thanks.


SBC and Verizon are the two companies currently actively doing IPTV. IPTV is TV delivered to you over the internet. It is not what you described. IPTV will be delivered using VDSL with bandwidth 52mb down and 12mb up. Here is a link to the PR about Scientific Atlantic being a supplier for SBC and it gives a little detail of IPTV.
http://www.sbc.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=21633

Here is the Wiki for IPTV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV

IPTV will be great once it is deployed fully. Right now SBC has trialed and begun deployment in San Antonio, TX. It involves upgrading the network to at least FTTN (Fiber To The Node). Eventually it will get FTTP(Premise).

Local news is a JOKE.

I especially like the sensationalistc teases that air on prime before the news.
TONIGHT- there's one neighborhood in the Saint Louis area where lead levels are so high, everyone is at risk.

Is it your neighborhood?

Find out tonight at ten.

One morning, they actually teased a traffic report.

"Coming up- we'll tell you which highway is causing headaches on the morning commute."

Priceless...

-Hanjke

I'm bet you all big money Karen Foss' camera gets the resolution cranked down and a couple of softening filters installed.
Dick Ford picked the right time to get out....whew....that would have been skeery!
I'm sure Amy and Tina just "love" they way their complexion looks on SNL now.

It seems there are three primary problems with kSDk: lax switch-flipping, misconfigured surround sound and a serious recent decline in picture quality.

It's true that local news in HD might improve kSDk engineering's followthrough on the SD/HD switch, but then again maybe not.

I doubt having the news in HD will get the sound fixed, as there's little point to having surround sound for someone reading the school closings. So that problem isn't likely to make it onto anyone's to-do list.

And as long as the Weather Channel continues, I see little hope for picture quality bouncing back. More likely, the popularity of local weather will encourage the development of other special interest subchannels.

It seems there are three primary problems with kSDk: lax switch-flipping, misconfigured surround sound and a serious recent decline in picture quality.



Add low audio output to the list. Lately, it's so low that my speakers scream whenever I switch channels away from 5-1.

Sloppy....just plain sloppy engineering. Write them a note (no matter how pollite) and you won't even get a "Thank You".

...... for some reason KSDK has an odd mix of being on the cutting edge (news, Thanksgiving parade, time-shifted HD) and incompetence. I hope not everybody here is giving up on them.

Sad, but true. Their time-shifted SNL has improved to almost flawless, yet the other (one would think, SIMPLER) issues remain. Compare this to Channel 30. ABC offers GMA in HD daily, yet KDNL only sends us an SD signal because they cannot time-shift one hour.

KSDK seems to be aware that HD is the future, yet their Quality Control (or rather the LACK of it) is horrendous.

One would think that these guys would have a few Off-air HD monitors scattered about the office or at their homes. They should sit down and watch their product sometime.

Add low audio output to the list. Lately, it's so low that my speakers scream whenever I switch channels away from 5-1.

Sloppy....just plain sloppy engineering. Write them a note (no matter how pollite) and you won't even get a "Thank You".

Actually, I got a thank you note from them after I send a polite but straight-forward "you guys do bad HD" message. It said that they read my e-mail, but may not be able to respond due to all the interest they are having with the HD news premier. :) Now that's priceless!

Rich,

Thanks for the clarification.

I think IPTV has the potential to be great, too, but I think it's highly unlikely to achieve that potential if it's left to SBC, Verizon and other telecos to actually create and deliver these services to consumers.

The sooner the phone companies get to grips with the concept that they are a carrier of bits, the better off they'll all be. Verizon and SBC should be looking to attract and sell the bandwidth needed for IPTV to the competitors of the entrenched cable provider.

For example, SBC could open up its networks here to Comcast, Time-Warner or anyone else that wanted to come in and take their best shot at the local road apple known as Charter. Likewise, SBC and Verizon could sell the bandwidth required for DISH or DirecTV to deliver true video on demand and more efficient (and less compromised) local digital channels.

The idea that SBC and Verizon are going to gear up and compete with local cable companies makes me laugh out loud. They'd be much better off selling network capacity to companies that actually have a clue about this business and the ability to leverage existing investments in it.

Technology-centric thinking reigns at the telecos and they are highly unlikely to succeed in competing with cable and satellite television. Maybe they need to make an initial entry into this market to demonstrate its potential, but they're headed for lots of red ink if they expect to do this themselves over the long haul.

It seems to me that the last couple of SNL shows that were in (time-shifted) HD had periodic video interference. It wasn't really macroblocking, it's more like surges where part of the picture is overlaid with a flash of red and green lines. I'm recalling from memory, but it seems like this interference appeared from the left side of the screen, about a third of the way down, followed by a second series of surges about two-thirds of the way down.

Maybe this is somethng that's just specific to my system, but because I've only seen it on SNL, I assumed it was related to the time-shifting gear that kSDk uses for this purpose.

I would think if sports programming doesn't motivate them to improve, news programming won't either.

I don't see how they equate. I guarantee they make more money on local news. This will be produced every day, so they should get better in spite of themselves. And finally, its locally produced, it isn't something they just pull off a satellite feed.

I'm all for keeping expections low or reasonable, but come on.

I don't see how they equate. I guarantee they make more money on local news. This will be produced every day, so they should get better in spite of themselves. And finally, its locally produced, it isn't something they just pull off a satellite feed.

I'm all for keeping expections low or reasonable, but come on.
I would think there's more money in sports than local news, with bigger sponsership money in the former. Perhaps that's a false assumption on my part.

Nevertheless, my expectations are pretty dismal: I contacted them before about problems. They responded by saying they would pass the buck to someone else at KSDK & I never heard from anyone again.

They keep all the money from advertising during local news, its also some of the highest rated programming (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'm pretty sure the only thing they get from national sports is the few commercials spots they sell locally that they get to break in with a few times an hour.

Maybe I should try calling the KSDK Tech number I have programmed in my home phone.

I used to call them all the time when they would forget to "flip" the switch for NASCAR.

I agree with the frustration, I can get personal e-mails from ABC and CBS Engineers, I don't even get canned responses from KSDK. But I guess I'm just looking at it as how long can they get away with their ineptness when somebody there or at Gannett is obviously interested in making them cutting edge, at least in this market.

Nevertheless, my expectations are pretty dismal: I contacted them before about problems. They responded by saying they would pass the buck to someone else at KSDK & I never heard from anyone again.

rthomp03 and kdg454 both of you say that you have seen the NFL Game of The Week in HD. You both have Dish? I have the top 120 package with the HD channels and a 821 receiver. How does this compare to what you guys have? kdg454 yes if you could take a pic that would be great. Thanks.

Correct...Dish. I use their 921 and 811 for my OTA tuners. The 921 pulls about a 20% stronger signal than the 811, but both work well. There are a few small, more annoying than anything, issues with the 921, mostly related to recording OTA HD. Overall, I'm very happy with Dish.
I have noticed a slight increase in signal strength since the leaves have fallen, but very slight, maybe 2-3%.
My antenna is pointed directly at a neighbors large oak tree, I'd guess it's about 50' high and about 100' away.
When I first put up the antenna the tree was full and didn't seem to effect the signal. We'll see what summer brings if I'm still living here. We're selling this house, and building a new one in TDL.
Now we're located in the Winchester area, Hildebrecht & 67.

Thanks for the reply. I live a few blocks from the Farmington Middle school. I hope you do not have trouble with your neighbor's tree like I do with mine. In the summer those trees do make a difference with STL local digital stations. But I am hoping that DirecTV will have the local digital channels available by then. Is Dish going to offer the locals(HD) also?

I would think that if you move to TDL you should even get a better signal from the STL stations. That would be great! :)

So how many HD channels does Dish offer?

Thanks for the info and links.

SBC and Verizon are the two companies currently actively doing IPTV. IPTV is TV delivered to you over the internet. It is not what you described. IPTV will be delivered using VDSL with bandwidth 52mb down and 12mb up. Here is a link to the PR about Scientific Atlantic being a supplier for SBC and it gives a little detail of IPTV.
http://www.sbc.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=21633

Here is the Wiki for IPTV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV

IPTV will be great once it is deployed fully. Right now SBC has trialed and begun deployment in San Antonio, TX. It involves upgrading the network to at least FTTN (Fiber To The Node). Eventually it will get FTTP(Premise).

Doug, you know why we want local news in HD.....because we need HD....we are addicted...we will watch paint drying in HD over the best programs in SD. Just wait for the shopping channels to be in HD....

I have a New Samsung Setop HDTV Tuner. I also have a large 160" antenna, however I have not been able to receive Digital broadcasts from UPN(46), FOX-KTVI(2), CBS-KMOV(4). I am using the original wiring RG59 cable with old splitters up to 900 MHZ could this be the problem? Any suggestions how I can receive the other stations?

I have a New Samsung Setop HDTV Tuner. I also have a large 160" antenna, however I have not been able to receive Digital broadcasts from UPN(46), FOX-KTVI(2), CBS-KMOV(4). I am using the original wiring RG59 cable with old splitters up to 900 MHZ could this be the problem? Any suggestions how I can receive the other stations?
Most likely, yes. I would suggest good quality Quad shielded RG6 and new or no splitter. Also, look at the maps at the beginning of the thread to see if everything is pointed properly.
Dug

rthomp03 and kdg454 both of you say that you have seen the NFL Game of The Week in HD. You both have Dish? I have the top 120 package with the HD channels and a 821 receiver. How does this compare to what you guys have? kdg454 yes if you could take a pic that would be great. Thanks.
Lou,
I believe you have either a 811 or 921 receiver. Dish's HD non-DVR receiver is the 811, and their HD DVR receiver is the 921 or 942. The 811 is currently being phased into another non-DVR HD receiver in either the 411 (MPEG4) and 211 (MPEG2), but the transition just began a month, or so ago.
I have both a 811 and 921. I have the AEP package, HD package, and VOOM package. NFLHD is included in the standard Dish HD package, so you should be receiving it.
Here's pix from tonight's broadcast.
From the 811 CLICK HERE (http://members.aol.com/kdg454/NFLHD/NFLHD_811.jpg)
From the 921 CLICK HERE (http://members.aol.com/kdg454/NFLHD/NFLHD_921.jpg)

Thanks for the reply. I live a few blocks from the Farmington Middle school. I hope you do not have trouble with your neighbor's tree like I do with mine. In the summer those trees do make a difference with STL local digital stations. But I am hoping that DirecTV will have the local digital channels available by then. Is Dish going to offer the locals(HD) also?
I would think that if you move to TDL you should even get a better signal from the STL stations. That would be great! :)
So how many HD channels does Dish offer?
I don't think even Dish knows if/when they will have the STL local DT's available. If they do, they're not saying.
I'm going to make the decision on Dish/Direct when the house is done. It has an outside shot at springtime, but mid-late summer is more realistic. I can't afford the crew the Cardinal's are using :eek:
If you go back in this thread, a page or so, Doug has a post with a pdf attachment which shows all the STL HD channels, including Dish.
I'm a bit concerned about OTA reception in TDL. It's about as far away east as it is closer north, to the towers, and the lot we're building on is in a tall-tree heavily wooded area.
Hopefully, but summertime, Direct will hit their unofficial goal of having the STL locals.

Lou,
I believe you have either a 811 or 921 receiver. Dish's HD non-DVR receiver is the 811, and their HD DVR receiver is the 921 or 942. The 811 is currently being phased into another non-DVR HD receiver in either the 411 (MPEG4) and 211 (MPEG2), but the transition just began a month, or so ago.
I have both a 811 and 921. I have the AEP package, HD package, and VOOM package. NFLHD is included in the standard Dish HD package, so you should be receiving it.
Here's pix from tonight's broadcast.
From the 811 CLICK HERE (http://members.aol.com/kdg454/NFLHD/NFLHD_811.jpg)
From the 921 CLICK HERE (http://members.aol.com/kdg454/NFLHD/NFLHD_921.jpg)

KDG454 thanks for the pics. I have the 811 don't know where I got those other numbers just a typo. :o I will be on the phone with a CSR in a few minutes. Thanks again.

It seems to me that the last couple of SNL shows that were in (time-shifted) HD had periodic video interference. It wasn't really macroblocking, it's more like surges where part of the picture is overlaid with a flash of red and green lines. I'm recalling from memory, but it seems like this interference appeared from the left side of the screen, about a third of the way down, followed by a second series of surges about two-thirds of the way down.

Maybe this is somethng that's just specific to my system, but because I've only seen it on SNL, I assumed it was related to the time-shifting gear that kSDk uses for this purpose.

Doug,

I saw exactly the same things on the first few shows. So your system is not at fault. Remember, the first one or two episodes were in SD. In fact, one HD show had serious, multiple video freezes. The last couple of shows seemed to be much more stable, IMHO.

KDG454 thanks for the pics. I have the 811 don't know where I got those other numbers just a typo. :o I will be on the phone with a CSR in a few minutes. Thanks again.
You're very welcome.
If you have time, I'd be interested to know what the outcome is.

The 811 is currently being phased into another non-DVR HD receiver in either the 411 (MPEG4) and 211 (MPEG2), but the transition just began a month, or so ago.

Have you received the MPEG4 receiver yet? Just checking on the website regarding equipment upgrades and those are not available. I currently have an 811 and a 508. Never jumped at the 942 "deal" for $798. (HEY! But that includes installation!!)

I'm anxious to get something that can record HD content. It may end up being an HTPC. At least I could record OTA HD stuff.

Thanks, moman -- I was pretty sure it wasn't a problem with my system, but it's good to know for sure.

Not to cross post or anything, but if any of you gurus can help out....

My Speaker Placement Question (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=620451)


Thanks,
D

Derek, I posted in your other thread.

Scott

I have a New Samsung Setop HDTV Tuner. I also have a large 160" antenna, however I have not been able to receive Digital broadcasts from UPN(46), FOX-KTVI(2), CBS-KMOV(4). I am using the original wiring RG59 cable with old splitters up to 900 MHZ could this be the problem? Any suggestions how I can receive the other stations?

It would also be beneficial to know where you live. I had a 160" antenna also, but
got unrealiable reception until I switched to the DB-9. That 160" antenna is really
only about 20" of a UHF antenna.

Have you received the MPEG4 receiver yet? Just checking on the website regarding equipment upgrades and those are not available. I currently have an 811 and a 508. Never jumped at the 942 "deal" for $798. (HEY! But that includes installation!!)
I'm anxious to get something that can record HD content. It may end up being an HTPC. At least I could record OTA HD stuff.
No, I don't think anyone in the STL market has. I've read that Dish has began to provide the 411 on some new installs in other markets, but no 811 upgrades.
If you noticed on Dish's website, they have left the picture of the 811 under HD receivers, but have removed the model number.
Dish has yet to say whether they will upgrade current 811's. As Dish owns mostly all the 811's, it would seem an upgrade would be prudent, though remains to be seen. Unofficially Dish is supposed to begin a full roll-out of the 411/211 in Feb 06.
If you want to follow it more closely, you'll find good reliable content on the AVS sister site, dbstalk.com.

Local news certainly has a purpose -- and an important one -- in a local community.

If you try and use it as your only source of information, be it local or national or world, you're going to be in a whole lot of trouble. However, there are things that they report on that are important local issues and, quite frankly, I think to completely dismiss the role that local news channels play in our community is a mistake.

You're very welcome.
If you have time, I'd be interested to know what the outcome is.

I called the Dish CSR right about midnight. The CSR at first told me that they had no channel for NFL HD. After talking with him for a few minutes about you and others getting the channel he put me on hold. After a few minutes he came back and ran me through a system check. Still could not get the channel. He then handed me over to a Tech. Specialist. He started to tell me that there was no activity on that channel. Again I told him that others in my area were receiving the channel. He put me on hold. After a few minutes he said he would have his supervisor call me within 24 hours with an answer because others have called about the channel. He said he had never heard of anyone actually getting that channel. So as it stands I am waiting for their phone call.

I called the Dish CSR right about midnight. The CSR at first told me that they had no channel for NFL HD. After talking with him for a few minutes about you and others getting the channel he put me on hold. After a few minutes he came back and ran me through a system check. Still could not get the channel. He then handed me over to a Tech. Specialist. He started to tell me that there was no activity on that channel. Again I told him that others in my area were receiving the channel. He put me on hold. After a few minutes he said he would have his supervisor call me within 24 hours with an answer because others have called about the channel. He said he had never heard of anyone actually getting that channel. So as it stands I am waiting for their phone call.


LOL, everyone else is gonna be mad at you when theirs suddenly disappears :-P

Local news certainly has a purpose -- and an important one -- in a local community.

If you try and use it as your only source of information, be it local or national or world, you're going to be in a whole lot of trouble. However, there are things that they report on that are important local issues and, quite frankly, I think to completely dismiss the role that local news channels play in our community is a mistake.


I'll agree with that - local crime, traffic, weather (eh, hehe), elections, sports. But the majority of "news" on local news are all human interest stories that are filler.

That being said KSDK is still my last choice locally for news.

Ok,

Earlier in the year Comcast , then DirecTV, earlier this week WOW and now Insight. Where are you Charter???


http://multichannel.com/article/CA6294033.html?display=Breaking+News&referral=supp

Mark

Merry Christmas, everyone!

It'll be interesting to see how many new members we get in this forum come January.

In case anyone remembers or is interested about my antenna "problems" -- I lost most of the digital signals when the leaves fell off, so I had no reception for about 2 months... After getting a taste of HD for a couple weeks with new DirecTV HD receivers (on the channels I could actually get, and a non-HD TV). :D I ordered an Antennas Direct 91XG antenna to replace the UHF on my old R-S combo and also a CM 7777 pre-amp (which I got primarily for combining the R-S VHF for analogs). But I tried the 7777 pre-amp with the R-S first, and it's actually working barely better than the 91XG! So it's being returned, and my signals are better than ever about 45 miles away in Warren County. :cool: A good pre-amp was the key to much improved levels. I'm even getting a steady signal now throughout the day on channel 9, which is great! I didn't think it was possible before the 7777, since it never showed up except barely a couple times late night/early morning before leaves fell.

OK, anyway...


Merry Christmas, everyone!

Thanks!

And as everyone gets caught up in the festivities, let us not forget what the real purpose of this Christmas is: getting 5.1 sound on channel 30!! :D So is WRacer really going to do it this time like he said, and we'll see 5.1 by next week? :confused: I don't know... :(


Moving on... Friday night I came home at 8:30 and put it on 2 to check out Ice Age in HD. It wasn't 5 minutes after that, it just switched back to SD (in the middle, not after commercial break, etc.). :mad: What seemed weird to me is that the local Fox 2 logo was at the top while the little one at the bottom was still there like during national HD programming, even though it wasn't. But who knows, you guys have more experience than me, just mentioning it. :)

Also checking channel 5 (uh, at 9 I guess), no HD on Law and Order or whatever it was. Same for Leno (didn't see Conan). So was it a whole evening of no HD from kSDk? :rolleyes: Christmas night I was checking channels again, and Crossing Jordan was HD with 5.1 indicated. I checked and the speakers were working right (center dialog, surround activity). Since I don't have experience and don't remember what's been said here, is that a change? Or hasn't there been any problems when the show actually has 5.1 from NBC? e.g. Is it just the thing where they leave the 5.1 flag on? I know I've heard it screwed up during primetime before, but I don't know which NBC shows are true 5.1, because there isn't one that I watch/care about. :p

Finally, the audio during Crossing Jordan didn't seem to be quieter than the other channels like it had been lately -- with either 5.1 or the local 2.0 parts. But again, I don't know. :) I'll check again tonight...

I don't know if anyone else caught it, but (I believe it was) on the last Leno show before Christmas, the musical act was a choir group that did Christmas carols.

The singers were dressed in red choir gowns and the compression artifacts this produced was nothing short of amazing -- it looked like there were lava flows running up down their garments.

I had TiVoed this but subsequently deleted the recording, so I can't be exactly sure if it was last Thursday or Friday.

Anyway, if anyone else managed to get this on a DVR and they still have it, I'd love to have a couple of screenshots that illustrate the artifacts in the red robes. Getting this from a HTPC-based DVR would be most useful, since it wouldn't involve degradation that would occur with a camera shot.

I'm planning to write to NBC Universal about this, as well as copying the local station here. Of course, this is most likely a pointless exercise, but it can't hurt either.

I'd also like to have on file some hard evidence that illustrates what happens when HD broadcasting takes place alongside multi-casting, and the screenshots from this show would be a great way to do that.

Anyone?

Hi, i've followed this thread for a while but this is my first post here. I was wondering if anyone here watched the two NBA games on ABC yesterday, and experienced problems with the signal dropping out near the end of the first game. I checked and my signal strength was in the low 80's yet my TV kept saying signal is not available. Then miraculous the signal came back early in the second game. I have experienced similar problems before during ABC's HD broadcasts, where i have good signal strength but mysteriosly no signal. Any way it nice to make a post after seeing all your posts for a while.

Sudhakar
(in Creve Coeur)

Sud,
Yes, I watched them both and there were issues with the DT HD feed throughout both games. At times the picture would freeze, though the audio would continue, then the audio would drop leaving a blank screen, no sound, but normal signal strength. The HD feed would then resume normally, a couple of times during play, and at others coming out of commercial.
I'm not sure, but I would think that would indicate KDNL-DT was continuing to broadcast, but periodically lost the HD feed from ABC. Someone with more knowledge could probably explain it better than me.

I don't know if anyone else caught it, but (I believe it was) on the last Leno show before Christmas, the musical act was a choir group that did Christmas carols.

The singers were dressed in red choir gowns and the compression artifacts this produced was nothing short of amazing -- it looked like there were lava flows running up down their garments.........

Anyone?

I missed it, but it's exactly what I observed while watching the Elton John Special about 10 days ago. The show was heavy on the reds (piano, the back drop, costumes, etc.). As a result, the piano & objects looked surreal, sort of like animated (Roger Rabit-like) objects painted with broad strokes.

I wrote a letter to KSDK. Guess what? .....no response.

I noticed the strange red behavior when Pamela Anderson was on Leno a week or so ago. Not sure why I was staring at her red Santa outfit, but I noticed a fuzzy break between changes in the red gradient. I was hoping it wasn't my new TV. Sounds like it something specific to NBC's signal.

I live Just south of Butler Hill Rd in South County

As said before I have a Samsung Setop Box. I still have old cable with old splitters. I know receive all channels except digital channel 4 and UPN 46(who cares) as well as channel 24. I don't really need UPN or channel 24 just CBS. However I notice that the broadcast frequency assignment for both channels I don't receive are 47 and higher. I moved the antenna and pointed it directly at where channel 4's broadcast tower is and still receive nothing except a flicker of HD on the receiver every once in a while does anyone know if they broadcast a digital all day long or is it just in the evenings? I will try to see if I get a signal tonight.

Stdan,
I receive CBS KMOV-DT (4-1 on UHF 56) 24/7. Other than occasional outages, no more or less than any of the other local DT's, it's always on.

Sud,
Yes, I watched them both and there were issues with the DT HD feed throughout both games. At times the picture would freeze, though the audio would continue, then the audio would drop leaving a blank screen, no sound, but normal signal strength. The HD feed would then resume normally, a couple of times during play, and at others coming out of commercial.
I'm not sure, but I would think that would indicate KDNL-DT was continuing to broadcast, but periodically lost the HD feed from ABC. Someone with more knowledge could probably explain it better than me.

Thanks kdg454,

Glad to know it wasn't something on my part.

Does anyone out there use the dvi connection with their Charter box. I was told it would not work by the installer and a tech in customer service. Just wanted to check before I buy and adapter.

Does anyone out there use the dvi connection with their Charter box. I was told it would not work by the installer and a tech in customer service. Just wanted to check before I buy and adapter.

I have the Motorola HD box (non-Moxi) and the DVI out works fine for me and has since I got it over a year ago,

Steve

Speaking of Charter and the Moxi box, some of you may remember I gave Charter the boot a little over a month ago. Well, got a little wrapped up, and never got around to dropping the equipment back off with them. My bill finally came and they were going to ring me up for $311 for a Moxi and a regular HD receiver. Needless to say, I was at Charter commons that weekend dropping them off. Just in case anybody was wondering cost on their boxes, thought I'd post this.

Does anyone out there use the dvi connection with their Charter box. I was told it would not work by the installer and a tech in customer service. Just wanted to check before I buy and adapter.


DVI on my Moxi works fine.

Does anyone out there use the dvi connection with their Charter box. I was told it would not work by the installer and a tech in customer service. Just wanted to check before I buy and adapter.

The DVI on the MOXI only works for the HD formats (720p and 1080i). To watch SD channels you either have to switch to the component input or let the MOXI upconvert the SD channels (which looks terrible).

Anyway, if anyone else managed to get this on a DVR and they still have it, I'd love to have a couple of screenshots that illustrate the artifacts in the red robes. Getting this from a HTPC-based DVR would be most useful, since it wouldn't involve degradation that would occur with a camera shot.

I'm planning to write to NBC Universal about this, as well as copying the local station here. Of course, this is most likely a pointless exercise, but it can't hurt either.

I'd also like to have on file some hard evidence that illustrates what happens when HD broadcasting takes place alongside multi-casting, and the screenshots from this show would be a great way to do that.


I saw this after I reported here about Pam Anderson. Somebody else posted a few posts ago about this so I wasn't the only one. Well, KSDK-DT repeated the Pam Anderson episode last night. So if anybody has that DVR'ed that would be a good example. It might still be on my Tivo if it didn't auto-delete, but the most I could manage is digital pics so I don't know that that will be what you are looking for Doug (PM me if this would do you any good).

I think if you just Tivo Leno for a few days you will probably have all the evidence you need, unless the volume of red decreases after Christmas.

I don't know what you are complaining about anyway ;) The audio has been so much better lately, they had to throw something else in to drive us nuts. They got rid of the hearing-impared person in QC and replaced them with a vision-impared person. Hopefully that was worded tastefully enough.

The reds again were saturated and "noisey". It wasn't limited to her dress. The poinsettias were also glowing as well as anything that was solid red. It just seems like they have the color adjustment a bit too "hot".

Doug,
Found this page
---http://pics.bbzzdd.com/search.php?q=PamAnderson_JayLeno
It won't link, but if you copy/paste, it will come up.
It has 10 screenshots of Anderson on Leno. I'm not sure if they're in HD or SD, or even what you're needing, but thought it may be useful.

Was last night's game (12-26 loss to Dallas) in HD anywhere? What station showed it here in St. Louis? I assume it was OLN since their crew was running around.

(I work at Savvis as a bartender so I don't get to watch home games on TV. The monitors by my stand were using the in-house feed that's also shown on the scoreboard over the ice.)

There were two production trucks down in the guts of the arena and one of them had a big plastic banner on the side that said Fox Sports HD. Plus there was a big satellite dish (just the dish on the trailer, no truck) parked on the sidewalk on the 16th street side of the Kiel Parking Garage. I've never seen this before.

Sud,
Yes, I watched them both and there were issues with the DT HD feed throughout both games. At times the picture would freeze, though the audio would continue, then the audio would drop leaving a blank screen, no sound, but normal signal strength. The HD feed would then resume normally, a couple of times during play, and at others coming out of commercial.
I'm not sure, but I would think that would indicate KDNL-DT was continuing to broadcast, but periodically lost the HD feed from ABC. Someone with more knowledge could probably explain it better than me.

The HD encoder failed at least twice during the BB games. It freezes the video but audio continues. Takes a cold reboot to fix...which tales about 6 minutes. The transmitter is still on so you get a good signal strength reading.

After several months of complaining to the manufactured, they confirmed a replacement unit was shipped on Friday!

FYI, working on 5.1, but may not finish this week.
Jim

The HD encoder failed at least twice during the BB games. It freezes the video but audio continues. Takes a cold reboot to fix...which tales about 6 minutes. The transmitter is still on so you get a good signal strength reading.

After several months of complaining to the manufactured, they confirmed a replacement unit was shipped on Friday!

FYI, working on 5.1, but may not finish this week.
Jim

Thanks always WRacer.

I hope you can get things rock solid by the Super Bowl.

Local news certainly has a purpose -- and an important one -- in a local community.

If you try and use it as your only source of information, be it local or national or world, you're going to be in a whole lot of trouble. However, there are things that they report on that are important local issues and, quite frankly, I think to completely dismiss the role that local news channels play in our community is a mistake.


Funny you should mention that. I guess that's why good old Sinclair dropped the news off KDNL? Unfortunately, most of the stations owners could care less about the communities they "serve", but more about how much money they can make at 5, 6, & 10. If more stations were owned by people who weren't trying to make a quick buck, we have more choices. Right? Or am I dreaming?

Now what's keeping KDNL from getting that 5.1 going? :) If he gets it up, I will spring for 5.1 system. Any good, relatively cheap ones out there?

Additionally, does anybody know if KDNL is going to show the Rams game Sunday? The one on ESPN's "Sunday Night Football?" I don't think anybody would mind pushing back ABC primetime for a few hours would they? Most of the shows are in repeat mode, anyway.

Was last night's game (12-26 loss to Dallas) in HD anywhere? What station showed it here in St. Louis? I assume it was OLN since their crew was running around.

(I work at Savvis as a bartender so I don't get to watch home games on TV. The monitors by my stand were using the in-house feed that's also shown on the scoreboard over the ice.)

There were two production trucks down in the guts of the arena and one of them had a big plastic banner on the side that said Fox Sports HD. Plus there was a big satellite dish (just the dish on the trailer, no truck) parked on the sidewalk on the 16th street side of the Kiel Parking Garage. I've never seen this before.


It was only on OLN, no HD - unless the Center Ice package has HD feeds, which I don't have and don't think is the case.

If more stations were owned by people who weren't trying to make a quick buck, we have more choices. Right? Or am I dreaming?http://img172.echo.cx/img172/1552/sc0656ah.gif

Additionally, does anybody know if KDNL is going to show the Rams game Sunday? The one on ESPN's "Sunday Night Football?" I don't think anybody would mind pushing back ABC primetime for a few hours would they? Most of the shows are in repeat mode, anyway.KJ,

In the past what's happened with Sunday Night Rams games is that FOX (KTVI) will carry the ESPN analog feed, but there likely won't be any HD...

It was only on OLN, no HD - unless the Center Ice package has HD feeds, which I don't have and don't think is the case.
It showed up as being HD on directv channel 97 or something, but I wasn't home to watch. I saw it in the upcoming guide. It's truely unfortunate there is no good local HD hockey.
:mad:
Perhaps new owners will change that, but I don't count on it.
dug

But - any game that is on FoxSportMW also shows up in its HD channel listing. Doesn't mean its actually going to be on that channel / feed :-)

But - any game that is on FoxSportMW also shows up in its HD channel listing. Doesn't mean its actually going to be on that channel / feed :-)
But it wasn't on FSMW. It was on OLN

KJ,

In the past what's happened with Sunday Night Rams games is that FOX (KTVI) will carry the ESPN analog feed, but there likely won't be any HD...

Rams game will be on KDNL, but unfortunatly an HD feed (if there is one) is not available to us.
Jim

But it wasn't on FSMW. It was on OLN


Yes, I know that. My point was, it often shows up in a stations HD channel list even if its only on the SD channel -- at least with FoxSMW.

I wasn't aware OLN had a HD feed.

The following article appeared in a Madison, WI newspaper and indicates that in addition to providing bundling incentives to customers, Charter is now looking to impose "unbundled" penalties in the form of higher prices.

http://www.dane101.com/current/2005/12/27/let_the_price_goug_er_bundling_begin

No idea if this will be applied to the St. Louis market, but in Madison the 3Mb service that currently sells for $49.99 is being increased to $54.99 if you aren't taking other Charter services.

Yes, I know that. My point was, it often shows up in a stations HD channel list even if its only on the SD channel -- at least with FoxSMW.

I wasn't aware OLN had a HD feed.

OLN has an HD feed, D* has carried it in the past on 94-99 depending on the day. It's not an always on channel.
Dug

KSDK picture quality,

Because of reruns mostly and the lure of water cooler talk about "Earl", I watched a suprisingly poor display of HDTV with green artifacts through the tuner of my Pani plasma. If a local station is going to market themselves as a leader in HD broadcasting you would think they would have the techincal ability to back it up. I hope for them, that they lurk in this forum from time to time or at the very least go home and see this poor broadcast quality for themselves. For all the badmouthing a couple years ago about FOX, 480p, widescreen and such, what I witnessed tonight was worse.

Greg,
I agree, it was absolutely horrid tonight. On the Office, when they were in the condo with the white walls, I saw all kinds of greens....and I don't think it was mold.

Tim

Greg,
I agree, it was absolutely horrid tonight. On the Office, when they were in the condo with the white walls, I saw all kinds of greens....and I don't think it was mold.

Tim


I also agree. I am glad to see that awful display of HD was not my set fault. EARL was terrible. Specks and breakup of color all over the picture.

The same thing happened the other night when "It's a Wonderful Life" was shown.

There was no black and there was no white -- just pea soup green.

I think it's hopeless...

What do you guys think of "upconverting" DVD players that "upscale" the signal from a standard 480i DVD to 720p/1080i on your television?

I have hard both good and bad things about them, including the idea that your TV upscales these DVDs to display on our HDTVs and that it basically does the same job an upconverting DVD player does.

I ask because my fiance bought me this Sony upconverting DVD player for Christmas. (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DVPNS70H&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_DVD_DVDPlayers) If these really dont' do much, then I'll probably take it back.

What do you guys think? I'm very interested in others' opininos on this, because many of you know and understand the truly technical stuff far better than I do.

Thanks!

This is by no means a techinical answer. I have a Samsung DVD-HD850 Up-Converting DVD Player, and what i have noticed is that the upconverted 1080i and 720P picture seemed crisper compared to the 480P. So i would say there is a slightly better picture. However when the WB was broadcasting "The Two Towers" in HD, i put my Two Towers DVD into my Samsung DVD player and compared the two pictures. Obviously the HD broadcast was better, but i was satisfied with the job my DVD player did in upconverting. While it might be a placebo effect, the upconverted picture seems nicer than regular 480P, although its definately not HD quality.

What do you guys think of "upconverting" DVD players that "upscale" the signal from a standard 480i DVD to 720p/1080i on your television?

I have hard both good and bad things about them, including the idea that your TV upscales these DVDs to display on our HDTVs and that it basically does the same job an upconverting DVD player does.

I ask because my fiance bought me this Sony upconverting DVD player for Christmas. (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DVPNS70H&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_DVD_DVDPlayers) If these really dont' do much, then I'll probably take it back.

What do you guys think? I'm very interested in others' opininos on this, because many of you know and understand the truly technical stuff far better than I do.

Thanks!

Upconverting LCD displays like your Sony and upconverting DVD players do essentially the same thing - convert an SD DVD to HD resolution. One may do a better job than another. The only way to know for sure is to try both with a good test disk - like Avia or Video Essentials, or with DVDs you know well. (An added complication here is that you may be scaling the image twice with the upconverting player - once with the DVD player and again with the display, depending on the resolution of the display and how it's set to pass the image you're feeding it.) The more important question may be - will your fiance understand your returning her Christmas present?

The more important question may be - will your fiance understand your returning her Christmas present?

Lol...no kidding, you'll probably get the Missouri stew for doing something like that! The one time she tries to throw you a bone and get you some electronics gear, and you return it!!!

Yep, was going to post the same. First time I'd noticed on anything besides red this extreme. This was a HD Tivo BTW.

On the Office, when they were in the condo with the white walls, I saw all kinds of greens....and I don't think it was mold.

Winston,

This is a complicated issue, and the best answer has probably already been given -- you need to check for yourself the difference between a standard 480p DVD player and the upconverting one you received as a gift.

However, one of the things that will complicate any evaluation you make is the fact that the Sony upconverting player has a choice of 480p (480x720), 720p (720x1280) or 1080i (1080ix1920) output, and your television's native resolution is actually 1386x788 pixels. Ideally your new DVD player would be able to upconvert to the native resolution of your TV (1386x788), but it doesn't offer that option.

As a result, regardless of what type of signal you send from the DVD player to the TV, the TV is still going to have to do additional scaling work to get the video into the TV's native format.

If your new player were able to upscale to the same 1386x788 resolution as your display, then you would probably be able to completely bypass your set's internal scaler. This is good for two reasons: one, it would eliminate an extra round of processing, and any sort of video processing, regardless how good, is going to add errors and artifacts; and two, it might allow you to sidestep some of the extraneous signal processing, such as edge enhancement, that is happening in conjunction with the TV's internal scaler.

As a general rule, I think that upscaling DVD players will deliver the most significant picture quality benefit when paired with a digital display (LCD, DLP, LCoS or plasma) where the player can be set to match the native resolution of the display -- for example, a DVD player outputting a 720p signal to a DLP with a native resolution of 720p.

On the other hand, I believe that upconverting DVD players are generally a "non event" when used with a CRT direct-view TV or a CRT RPTV. The popular set-up for CRT sets and an upscaling DVD player is to set the player to 1080i. I believe this is a poor choice, because it re-introduces a slew of interlacing artifacts that would be avoided with a basic 480p player. In my opinion, a better solution with a CRT set would be to set the DVD player to 540p, which is the same scan frequency as 1080i. Unfortunately many (most?) upscaling players omit 540p as an output resolution option.

However, upscaling DVD players can have some tangible benefit when paired with a CRT-based front projector, as the higher resolution can reduce or eliminate the visible line structure that can occur when a 480-line image is projected at 80 inches or larger.

With a CRT front projector, ideally the player could be set up to output the same resolution as the projector's "sweet spot," but oftentimes this will turn out to be an oddball resolution such as 600p, 800p or 960p that the DVD player can't deliver. In this case, you'd ideally use 720p, not interlaced 1080.

None of these answers matter. Joseph and DJ are right. You need to be worried about what she thinks if you return it, not how it is gonna perform.

It showed up as being HD on directv channel 97 or something, but I wasn't home to watch. I saw it in the upcoming guide. It's truely unfortunate there is no good local HD hockey.
:mad:
Perhaps new owners will change that, but I don't count on it.
dug

The HD Channel on DirecTV is actually for tomorrow's game. It showed up in the
guide on Sunday I think. It makes sense for this game to show up on D* cuz
the Stars do a lot of their games in HD and the FSN Midwest has scheduled the
12/29 game as an HD game.

If there was a FSN HD truck at the game it is possible that it was just parked there
because if OLN had the game, no one was seeing it on FSN.

The same thing happened the other night when "It's a Wonderful Life" was shown.

There was no black and there was no white -- just pea soup green.

I think it's hopeless...

Last Night's L&O was a disaster. Green snow was very apparent during dimly lit scenes and in dark areas. I wonder if this is a local issue or a network issue. Anyone viewing this forum out of another city can easily confirm this.

One would think that whatever the cause, KSDK would be "working on it..."

Anyone??????

Home, Sweet Home Theater

Following up on the downside of returning a spouse/girlfriend's home theater gift, I thought I'd go ahead and throw out the following proposition.

I routinely provide basic equipment selection advice to clients or qualified prospects. Of course, there is a limit to how much "free" advice I'll provide, because I also provide equipment selection consulting services for a fee. I'll typically spend 15 to 20 minutes discussing basic options and pros/cons of each, but when the scope of the discussion goes beyond what can be accomplished in a single phone call or discussion, I usually suggest a formal consulting assignment.

Anyway, I'd be prepared to provide the same sort of free service, in future, to any of your spouses/significant others. While I appreciate that communicating the availability of this sort of service to your mate may require skillful presentation on your part, if you can navigate around and through that obstacle course, I'm happy to take it from there.

Just tell your better half to call me or email me and mention the words, "Home, Sweet Home Theater" and I'll provide them with the guidance they need to ensure you get you the best possible birthday, anniversary or holiday gift -- and ideally one that they'll be happy about, too.

Of course, all inquiries would be treated as 100% confidential.

You might wonder what's in it for me? Well, as a general rule, I have around a 70% conversion rate when someone calls and asks about my calibration services. But when I don't get the business, I'd estimate that more than half the time, it's due to the "spouse approval factor." Whenever I hear the words, "great, now I just need to check with my wife (girlfriend)," I figure that it's better than 50/50 that these are the last words I'm going to hear from that particular person.

That's not to say that all wives or girlfriends are home theater- or calibration-adverse; in fact, I've had a handful of female customers who were the lead (or sole) advocate for calibration or purchase of a home theater system.

But spouse approval factor is definitely a very real issue. So, for me, this is a way of "making nice" with my most imposing "sale objection." Of course, I recognize that this sort of service won't eliminate the reality of SAF for me, but it also can't hurt.

And I figure I might actually learn something useful in the process.

moman,

The green and red artifacts you are seeing is a result of multi-casting, and the fact that the HD feed sent out by kSDk is bit-starved.

To a certain degree, multicasting is going to negatively impact HD picture quality, no matter how skillfully it is done in terms of balancing the video payloads against the available bandwidth. While there are ways to optimize the picture quality of multicast feeds, it seems perfectly clear that this is the sort of thing that is well beyond the level of technical skill available among the engineering staff at kSDk.

If they knew what they were doing -- and cared -- this would not be happening to the degree we're seeing.

Hey. KSDK has been multi-casting for awhile now. I just started notice the terrible green and red artifacts. It was last week during one of the Law and Orders. My girlfriend had it on and I was like "What happened to our TV!" Then I realized it was just a crappy picture from channel 5. I've see the picture look much better just a couple weeks ago. Somethings definitely up with their signal or something. Please tell me they have somebody at KSDK working to fix this soon..
No really, you can tell me. I just might not believe you.
It's too bad. I love "Earl" and "Office" and they looked dreadful last night. How can they tout going "HD" for newscasts when the picture looks like crap. On the other hand, the weather channel looked great! yeah, who cares.

Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd waste my vacation time and write another letter to KSDK (mtamme@ksdk.gannett.com, jheskett@ksdk.gannett.com, kcreamer@ksdk.gannett.com). Here it is:

To whom it may concern (although so far no one at KSDK ever seems concerned)

I just wanted to let you know that I no longer watch KSDK at all & haven't for a while, because of the abysmal job you do delivering HDTV. I wrote several months ago to advise you of issues with the digital audio stream. I did not get a response. When I wrote again, I got a response saying my comments would be forwarded to someone else (i.e. passing the buck). I never heard from anyone again.

At the same time, I also wrote to KMOV about technical problems they had. They replied immediately, investigated my complaints, found they had some faulty equipment, and fixed the issues. This all occurred within a week's time.

In the meantime, things have gone from bad to worse at KSDK. The HDTV feed is generally unwatchable. Both the video and audio are problematic. And it's even more bit-starved now that you've split off a second channel for weather (or whatever 5-2 is now).

Now I hear that KSDK is promoting itself as a leader in HDTV. Is this true? Surely you're kidding, or delusional? KSDK is the worst of all the metro St. Louis stations doing HDTV. How can you consider doing local news in HDTV when you can't even get retransmission of national HD feeds correct?

Anyway, I'm not alone. An ongoing discussion at the St. Louis, MO HDTV discussion area of AVS Forums includes plenty of complaints of KSDK quality, as well as confirmation from others that complaints to KSDK generaly falls on deaf ears. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=454301

I have no illusions of getting a response from KSDK, much less any improvement, so it's not necessary to reply. I only hope your advertisers have the opportunity to learn about the poor job you're doing and how unimpressed the St. Louis HDTV user community is with KSDK.

Dean Wette, an ex-KSDK Viewer
University City, MO


Edit: the copy to F. Michael Tamme (mtamme@ksdk.gannett.com) bounced as undeliverable

Well, dang, you guys didn't give me the "silver bullet" answer I was hoping for.

Actually, she's fine with me taking it back. One of the things I love about her -- and the reason we're getting married -- is that she's very practical. She'd rather me take it back and her get something else than blow the $150 the player cost her.

So, basically, my TV is going to upscale the picture on its own, from a progressive scan DVD player? If that's the case, I think an upconverting DVD player just might be redundant, as I think Doug alluded to.

One other question.... how did you find the native resolution of my HDTV? I never could find it anywhere. Thanks!

I guess I'm thinking of taking it back... I don't know.

Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd waste my vacation time and write another letter to KSDK (mtamme@ksdk.gannett.com, jheskett@ksdk.gannett.com, kcreamer@ksdk.gannett.com). Here it is:


Edit: the copy to F. Michael Tamme (mtamme@ksdk.gannett.com) bounced as undeliverable


Great letter!

FYI - kSDk has been advertising for a new IT Director for some time. I believe Mr. Tamme was the previous holder of that position.

Also, some reading in the Hardware forum has shed some additional light on the HD issues with NBC. As Doug has pointed out, the multi-casting is apparently to blame and is causing degradation issues with other affiliates as well. The question was raised why NBC is having worse problems than PBS and ABC stations doing the same thing. The answer: NBC does 1080i while the others are 720p. Apparently 1080i is much more sensitive to the loss of bandwidth than 720p.

One other unrelated bit of possible bad news for the future:

Belo is still negotiating with D* to carry their affiliates' HD feeds over the new MPEG4 satellites. If a deal isn't done in the next few months, KMOV will be missing when the rollout occurs here (2nd qtr 2006). Between Belo and Sinclair's ridiculous demands, it looks like OTA is still the way to go for now.

Mike

Great letter!
Thanks. Unfortunately, it probably really is a waste of time.


One other unrelated bit of possible bad news for the future:

Belo is still negotiating with D* to carry their affiliates' HD feeds over the new MPEG4 satellites. If a deal isn't done in the next few months, KMOV will be missing when the rollout occurs here (2nd qtr 2006). Between Belo and Sinclair's ridiculous demands, it looks like OTA is still the way to go for now.
I'm suspicious that D* retransmission of HD locals will be lower quality than OTA anyway. I only have real problems receiving KPLR-DT with an antenna, but am considering changing from an attic to a roof top antenna this year.

Well, dang, you guys didn't give me the "silver bullet" answer I was hoping for.

Actually, she's fine with me taking it back. One of the things I love about her -- and the reason we're getting married -- is that she's very practical. She'd rather me take it back and her get something else than blow the $150 the player cost her.

So, basically, my TV is going to upscale the picture on its own, from a progressive scan DVD player? If that's the case, I think an upconverting DVD player just might be redundant, as I think Doug alluded to.

One other question.... how did you find the native resolution of my HDTV? I never could find it anywhere. Thanks!

I guess I'm thinking of taking it back... I don't know.

I'm guessing he just knew that since the resolution of your TV is 1368 dots*768 lines

EDIT: Sorry, I mis-read your question. Page 50 of your Owner's Manual.

I'm suspicious that D* retransmission of HD locals will be lower quality than OTA anyway.

I totally agree. If the SD locals are any indication. The HD locals will be nice as a
backup, but I don't know if I would depend on them entirely.

Winston,

Yes, I think you'd be better off with a progressive DVD player doing the 480i-to-480p deinterlacing, and then the TV doing the 480p-to-1386x788 scaling.

I don't think there's any point in having the DVD player do half the scaling work (say, to 720p) and then pass that signal to the TV to do the remaining scaling to 1386x788. In this situation, it's more logical to have the DVD player do the deinterlacing work and have the TV do all of the scaling.

There's actually a test disc available for evaluating de-interlacing and scaling performance. It's called the HQV Benchmark DVD and it sells for around $35, though if you hunt around you might be able to find it for $25 or so.

Also, I found your TV's resolution on the Sony Style website.

Unless an upscaling DVD can support a connected monitor's native display resolution exactly pixel for pixel (and not even off by one), then you'll just end up with the image getting scaled twice. Once by the DVD player and a second time by the display's scalar (i.e. if the display believes for any reason the image resolution isn't correct, it'll rescale it). Then all you're asking for is trouble -- scaling multiple times is more likely to introduce artifacts than improve picture quality.

There is a reason why dedicated scalars are expensive. I don't understand why anyone would expect that a DVD player costing a fraction of that would do the job correctly. In my opinion, it's more of a marketing gimick to sell players to people who already have an adequate working player. The old addage still applies -- you get what you pay for.

Personally, I prefer having a player that outputs 480p (and DVD video is till 480 no matter how you look at it), but one that has high quality MGEG decoding and deinterlacing. If it doesn't do these well, scaling only compounds the problem.

moman,

The green and red artifacts you are seeing is a result of multi-casting, and the fact that the HD feed sent out by kSDk is bit-starved.

To a certain degree, multicasting is going to negatively impact HD picture quality, no matter how skillfully it is done in terms of balancing the video payloads against the available bandwidth. While there are ways to optimize the picture quality of multicast feeds, it seems perfectly clear that this is the sort of thing that is well beyond the level of technical skill available among the engineering staff at kSDk.

If they knew what they were doing -- and cared -- this would not be happening to the degree we're seeing.

Doug,

I fear you are correct. If they knew what they were doing, things wouldn't be this bad. But the question remains:

The green & red artifacts are a recent occurance, while Weather Plus has been around for a few months now. So why wasn't this obvious since the sub was launched? Unless, of course, they have already partitioned off additional bandwidth for a 3rd or 4th sub.

(Believe it or not) I received a kind response to my written feedback on this subject from an Engineering contact I have over at 5. He stated that the saturated red issue came in that way from the network and was not the fault of KSDK. (Again, do they know what they are doing?)

If this was truly a "network issue", logic dictates that other afilliates in other cities would suffer the same fate. Frankly, I find it difficult to believe that the great NBC (first to transmit many shows in color in the '60s) is 100% at fault.

So there seems to be some finger pointing going on here. Or maybe KSDK is merely in denial.

The question was raised why NBC is having worse problems than PBS and ABC stations doing the same thing. The answer: NBC does 1080i while the others are 720p. Apparently 1080i is much more sensitive to the loss of bandwidth than 720pThis is a really good point.

The underlying issue is that progressive video can be compressed MUCH more efficiently than interlaced video.

This is why most local PBS stations are taking the 1080i PBS National HD feed and scaling it to 720p before they send it out with the other SD subchannels. This minimizes, but hardly eliminates, the problem of bit-shaving. But it definitely helps.

What's ironic about this is that when the HDTV specifications were being hammered out a decade ago, broadcasters were adamant about maintaining interlaced video and did their best to stonewall the emerging convergence/computer crowd who pushed hard for progressive video.

That's one of the reasons we have a variable ATSC standard (multiple flavors of 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p), rather than a fixed standard such as we've had with NTSC (480i) the past 40 years.

Now, the broadcasters who refused to seriously consider the merits of progressive video are going to suffer for that in terms of having less flexibility in how they use their available bandwidth. Of course, viewers will also suffer when the broadcasters insist on trying to cram 15 pounds of manure into a bag only capable of holding 10 pounds.

I wonder how long it will take after kSDk begins its HD newscasts for a newsroom ban to be imposed on red clothing...

Was stuck at the Galleria foodcourt last night (I hate malls) since I was waiting for the beeper to go off to get my new iPod (that didn't work) looked at.

They're in the process of finishing up the renovation of the lower foodcourt area. I was pleased to find at one end they have a new lounge area with some surprising equipment.

A decent Yamaha receiver.
A Samsung LCD HDTV. A 34" I think.
A DirecTV H10 high-def capable receiver.


It was all behind glass and tuned to the Fox News Channel. And they left it pillarboxed.

So at least in theory they can do HD on this setup.

I'm half tempted to dork out by downloading the H10 codes to my Harmony remote, taking it to the mall and changing the channel to see if they get HD (and leaving it there.)

Do you think I need help?

moman,

While it's true that the decline in picture quality is more apparent in recent weeks, it was very bad from the start of multicasting. I have before-MC and after-MC recordings of Leno that show this very clearly.

It also possible that the network is the source of the problem, not kSDk. However, it's hard to cut any slack to kSDk, because they've really done nothing to warrant the benefit of doubt.

Also, I think you can take the "NBC technology heritage" angle and toss it right out the door -- the network was owned by RCA then, and General Electric now. Any resemblance between these companies and the way the broadcast TV network business was managed 50 years ago and today is purely coincidental.

Go, dweebe, go.

Winston -

You might try searching other areas of AVS. I found lots of stuff about upconverting when I was looking into it.

Back in February, I tried a few upscaling DVD players (Samsung/Toshiba.) I didn't like the upscaling feature. For one...I would have used them with my projector, but you cannot convert an HDMI signal to DVI and then to M1. (So the Toshiba was out.) The Samsung had a DVI connection, but it required a firmware upgrade to be compatible with my setup (or so customer service said.) I returned both of them.

After a little research on the forum, I found that the Toshiba model had a red push and didn't center the screen. (I can't confirm, but other AVS users can.) At the time, there were only about 3 players on the market...perhaps the technology has improved since then.

It's up to you if you keep it or not...Hook that bad boy up and see how it looks to you. I'm gonna wait for HD/Blu Ray before I make another move. Maybe we'll see HD Beta soon.

Hey "DropTR", I understand the picture became more "compromised" when kSDk added the weather channel. It's the green and red artifacts that are a definite problem that many of us have noticed in just the last week. Even if it's HD "lite", I'll take it, but the weird color thing happening is specific to something within the last week. If the people at kSDk don't notice it, how can we trust them with the news? See what you wanna see, hear what you wanna hear I suppose....

Was stuck at the Galleria foodcourt last night (I hate malls) since I was waiting for the beeper to go off to get my new iPod (that didn't work) looked at.

They're in the process of finishing up the renovation of the lower foodcourt area. I was pleased to find at one end they have a new lounge area with some surprising equipment.

A decent Yamaha receiver.
A Samsung LCD HDTV. A 34" I think.
A DirecTV H10 high-def capable receiver.


It was all behind glass and tuned to the Fox News Channel. And they left it pillarboxed.

So at least in theory they can do HD on this setup.

I'm half tempted to dork out by downloading the H10 codes to my Harmony remote, taking it to the mall and changing the channel to see if they get HD (and leaving it there.)

Do you think I need help?

Classic. I new I wasn't the only idiot that thougt like that.

Scott

Still have not heard from Dish about my issue of not receiving the NFL game of the week in HD. However tonight at 8:30PM there it was. However as soon as the game was over the channel went blank. Before it went blank there was a short message that said something like my "card did not support this activity"? Then I noticed that 9:00PM time slot for the NFL HD game of the week was listed in the eastern time zone. Maybe I just get this game when it is available in the central time zone slot. Any thoughts?

Still have not heard from Dish about my issue of not receiving the NFL game of the week in HD. However tonight at 8:30PM there it was. However as soon as the game was over the channel went blank. Before it went blank there was a short message that said something like my "card did not support this activity"? Then I noticed that 9:00PM time slot for the NFL HD game of the week was listed in the eastern time zone. Maybe I just get this game when it is available in the central time zone slot. Any thoughts?
The NFLHD channel on Dish only broadcasts on Wednesday and Thursday between 9PM-10PM/Eastern Time, which is 8PM-9PM/Central Time here in STL.
On the Program Guide it says "Game-of-the-Week Wed/Thurs 9PM/ET," which is a bit confusing as all other times on the EPG are already converted to Central Time.
If you go the the channel at 9pm local time, the broadcast is already over. Even though the Guide says it begins at 9PM, you have to begin watching it at 8PM local time.
If you attempt to access the channel any time other than 8-9pm/CST you will get a message that says, "This is a special event which is not available for purchase. For further information press the 'info' button." Which, of course, gives you as much further information as the CSR's gave you!

Rams game will be on KDNL, but unfortunatly an HD feed (if there is one) is not available to us.
Jim


Thanks, Jim, Doug for the info.

kdg454 has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled -
St. Louis, MO - HDTV - in the Local HDTV Info and Reception forum of AVS
Forum.

***************
Anyone else getting a less-than-normal (if such a thing exists) OTA
signal strength from KTVI-DT this evening?
It began around 4pm and is still around 50-70 on both of my tuners.
Usually it is 90-110.
The other 4 seem normal. (KMOV, KDNL, KPLR, KSDK)


kdg545,

I did not get to check this in a timely fashion since I just now saw this on my e-mail but at 11PM I had a a normal to good signal on KTVI-DT. My Sony HD300 only gives me a signal meter reading of bad, normal or good.

From my experiences with KTVI-DT this station is the one that has always given me reception problems so it does not surprise me that you are starting to notice it. You will really start to notice it when spring comes and especially summer......IMO.

Maybe you will be lucky but I doubt it based on my experiences. Do you get the HD fox feed out of NY on Dish? I get the HD Fox feed out of NY since our local fox station is owned by the parent company.

MJM, why is the OTA signal giving you more trouble in the spring and summer?

Winston,

Maybe I missed it but did you buy a LCD flatpanel for your bride to be? If so did she like it?

Also, my upconverting LG DVD player is being used on the LCD flatpanel I bought for my bedroom. Same 1280x720 settings and I do notice the difference via the HDMI cable (it won't upconvert with component). I tried this on my larger Panny HD RPTV and did not notice a large difference but I needed a HDMI-DVI converter plug. You might keep the DVD player for her LCD? What a sacrifice!!!

MJM,
Thank you for the reply. The signal seems to be back to its normal range now.
Dish told me I would have to get a waiver from KTVI in order for Dish to provide me any out-of-market locals. They told me this applies to both AT and DT locals, and it is because I do not live in what is considered a "white area," whatever that is.
Best I could figure out is, if I live in an area where the designated local channels can be received off-air, then the local affiliate has the right to prevent Dish from providing another out-of-market local. I applied for the waiver, but KTVI denied it.
I'm about 53 miles from the towers in St Louis, with a large LD directional antenna and pre-amp, I am able to receive both the VHF and UHF signals, though they can be weak at times.
I don't know who owns KTVI, and I really don't have the knowledge and understanding to have pursued the matter any further.

MJM, why is the OTA signal giving you more trouble in the spring and summer?


WinstonSmith,

My neighbor has a big tree in the direction my antenna is pointing toward STL. When the tree has leaves it causes a problem with my reception for KTVI-DT. Also the very warm air in the summer wrecks havoc with the digital signals, especially since I am 70 miles from STL.

I have overcome this problem some with an install of a rotor. I can move my antenna sometimes and get a better signal. This helps for the summer.

MJM,
Thank you for the reply. The signal seems to be back to its normal range now.
Dish told me I would have to get a waiver from KTVI in order for Dish to provide me any out-of-market locals. They told me this applies to both AT and DT locals, and it is because I do not live in what is considered a "white area," whatever that is.
Best I could figure out is, if I live in an area where the designated local channels can be received off-air, then the local affiliate has the right to prevent Dish from providing another out-of-market local. I applied for the waiver, but KTVI denied it.
I'm about 53 miles from the towers in St Louis, with a large LD directional antenna and pre-amp, I am able to receive both the VHF and UHF signals, though they can be weak at times.
I don't know who owns KTVI, and I really don't have the knowledge and understanding to have pursued the matter any further.

KDG454,

Here is a link to another HD forum that I am a member of that refers to the Fox station and being able to get it on DirecTV which is what I do. This is only the NATIONAL FEED THOUGH........BUT hopefully the HD channels are going to be available for the STL area in the next 6 months via DirecTV.

http://hdlibrary.com/viewtopic.php?t=2392&highlight=

The NFLHD channel on Dish only broadcasts on Wednesday and Thursday between 9PM-10PM/Eastern Time, which is 8PM-9PM/Central Time here in STL.
On the Program Guide it says "Game-of-the-Week Wed/Thurs 9PM/ET," which is a bit confusing as all other times on the EPG are already converted to Central Time.
If you go the the channel at 9pm local time, the broadcast is already over. Even though the Guide says it begins at 9PM, you have to begin watching it at 8PM local time.
If you attempt to access the channel any time other than 8-9pm/CST you will get a message that says, "This is a special event which is not available for purchase. For further information press the 'info' button." Which, of course, gives you as much further information as the CSR's gave you!

Thank you and I believe that is the answer to my questions Much better than any Dish CSR :)

Hey. KSDK has been multi-casting for awhile now. I just started notice the terrible green and red artifacts. It was last week during one of the Law and Orders. My girlfriend had it on and I was like "What happened to our TV!" Then I realized it was just a crappy picture from channel 5. I've see the picture look much better just a couple weeks ago. Somethings definitely up with their signal or something. Please tell me they have somebody at KSDK working to fix this soon..

I was thinking the same thing but did not want to say it since I wasn't sure of the dates involved here, but it sure seems to me this new problem happened much closer to the time when they started doing a better job on the 5.1/3.0 audio than when they started multicasting. I have not seen the other discussions about this happening elsewhere where multicasting is happening, but they may not have near the picture quality issues we have. Some people get upset at the slightest hint of macroblocking, which you know you are going to get with most multicasting, but this issue is much worse than that.

Of course, I don't want to say this too loud because I don't want them messing with the audio.

And Doug, if they ban reds in the newsroom they will have to ban whites as well, and whatever other colors causes this issue that I just haven't noticed yet.

DirecTV Wraps Phase 1 of HD Locals, Adding NY and LA

DirecTV announced Wednesday that it has completed its first round of local HD channel offerings by going live with the New York and Los Angeles stations. With these additions, DirecTV has completed the first phase of its HD local rollout, providing local digitals in the top 12 DMAs in the country.

According to tvpredictions.com, DirecTV plans to add another 24 cities "in early 2006."

If TVP has this correct, St. Louis locals will probably be available by late winter or early spring.

Something I hadn't noticed before that's worth pointing out -- in its initial pass, DirecTV appears to be offering only the local stations affiliated with the four major networks -- ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC. Assuming this deployment pattern holds for the near term, this means we won't be seeing KETC or KPLR when DirecTV initially provides St. Louis locals.

The press release that DirecTV issued Wednesday seemed pretty unequivocal on this point:

"DIRECTV will carry each of the four primary broadcast networks that offer an HD feed in the market."

The press release also noted any subscriber who currently pays for a package that includes analog locals will receive the digital locals at no additional charge.

I am finally in the HD Club!!!

After many months of research & room refinishing, my 50" Pioneer Elite 1130 plasma was set up yesterday. I spent most of last night playing around with the settings/features & channel surfing. The football games on ESPN were amazing. I did notice the "green snow" on Law & Order. I am looking forward to some more getting-acquainted time in the days to come.

Went to Ciceros in the U. City Loop for dinner last night and noticed some changes in what used to be their billiards/bar area. The second thing I noticed was that they took out two pool tables and put in regular seating. The first thing I noticed was they added an approximately 80 to 90 inch screen front projection HD setup to that area. They were showing ESPN-HD with whatever bowl game had Michigan and Nebraska playing on Wednesday night. Not sure on who (Dish/Direct/Charter) they were using as the input source.

The picture looked excellent. Even though the dining area was pretty empty and a reggae band was playing in the music room, the bar area was very full with a decent group of Michigan fans cheering their team on. Hopefully there will be some HD converts with this.

Saluki -

Congrats on the setup. I'd be interested to see pictures if you have any.

Enjoy the obsession.

Has anyone heard anything regarding the PQ of DirecTV's DT locals vs the OTA locals in the markets DirecTV has already rolled out?
I've read several comments here regarding a possible anticipated loss of PQ, due to compression, bandwidth, etc.

Greg,
I agree, it was absolutely horrid tonight. On the Office, when they were in the condo with the white walls, I saw all kinds of greens....and I don't think it was mold.

Tim

Same here... I couldn't believe how painfully bad the picture quality was.

I'm also curious about the Directv MPEG-4 picture quality. I've had Directv the last 6 years. Recently moved back to St. Louis in October and I have my account on hold. Basically, I'm disappointed with the lack of HD programming they offer at the moment. I don't need the Locals in HD since I get them fine with OTA and my Directv HD receiver. Another reason I haven't reactivated my account is the Standard Def channels (over 90 % of their programming) looked very grainy and terrible on my 32' Panasonic HDTV. It was a letdown when I made the HD leap and I'm waiting till they offer more HD channels on Directv. Although, if the new MPEG receivers somehow improved the SD channels I would most likely sign back up.
Back to the original thought. HD quality for local channels with this new MPEG-4 setup? And I would expect more HD programming this year from Directv? And an improvement in picture with the SD (standard def) would really help too.
I'm even considering Charter if I know the SD picture would be much better than Directv. Bottom line is, I don't want to pay 60 bucks a month for 10 percent high def and the other percent really bad SD on my HDTV. For now, I really dig the OTA HD programming (through my existing DTV HD receiver) and it's all free.

Saluki -

Congrats on the setup. I'd be interested to see pictures if you have any.

Enjoy the obsession.

Here's a pic...

Went to Ciceros in the U. City Loop for dinner last night and noticed some changes in what used to be their billiards/bar area. The second thing I noticed was that they took out two pool tables and put in regular seating. The first thing I noticed was they added an approximately 80 to 90 inch screen front projection HD setup to that area. They were showing ESPN-HD with whatever bowl game had Michigan and Nebraska playing on Wednesday night. Not sure on who (Dish/Direct/Charter) they were using as the input source.

The picture looked excellent. Even though the dining area was pretty empty and a reggae band was playing in the music room, the bar area was very full with a decent group of Michigan fans cheering their team on. Hopefully there will be some HD converts with this.

You can also add the new redesigned Galleria foodcourt to the list of public HD displays. The new foodcourt has a little fireplace area with lounge seating and a wall mounted plasma. When I was there a couple of weeks ago, they just had fox news on, but they have a directv HD receiver hooked-up in plain sight.

You can also add the new redesigned Galleria foodcourt to the list of public HD displays. The new foodcourt has a little fireplace area with lounge seating and a wall mounted plasma. When I was there a couple of weeks ago, they just had fox news on, but they have a directv HD receiver hooked-up in plain sight.

I had that about a page back. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6801083&&#post6801083

Maybe they've got two down there. I only went to the "sucken" side by where the bathrooms are. Don't remember a fireplace. Plus the TV was an LCD and inside a case down low and not on the wall. Was there another setup in the opposite corner by where the old Pasta House used to be?

I have the Charter signal split in my new display so that I can use the PIP function for 2 TV sources. I am wondering if anyone has a Charter station listing of the channels as they appear via the TV tuner (115.20 kinda numbers).

I'll be damned...

I got a response to my letter to KSDK. Dave Hummert at KSDK replied with the following:


Thank you for your note. We are aware of our technical issues with the network feed and are working to resolve those issues.
Dave Hummert

Just knowing there are living beings taking breaths of air at KSDK is an improvement,

Here's a pic...

Nice. Very nice. (golf clap)

What's that center channel speaker you're using?

Nice. Very nice. (golf clap)

What's that center channel speaker you're using?

It's actually more than a center channel. It's a Polk SurroundBar that provides a surround-like system (used in conjunction with a sub) for the room set-up challenged like myself.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/flatscreens/surroundbar/

Winston,

Maybe I missed it but did you buy a LCD flatpanel for your bride to be? If so did she like it?

No, I didn't.

I decided, at the last minute, that I had to let her in on my plan. To not do that might be risking problems. The one that kept popping into my m ind was: "Is this really something for MY birthday or just something for you?" There would have been no correct answer to that =]

She'd been wanting a notebook computer for a long time, so I got her that instead.

But, I'm still going to end up getting an LCD flat panel for my living room.

Winston,

Yes, I think you'd be better off with a progressive DVD player doing the 480i-to-480p deinterlacing, and then the TV doing the 480p-to-1386x788 scaling.

Thanks. That's pretty much the advice I was looking for and exactly what I was learning towards.

Also, I found your TV's resolution on the Sony Style website.

Thanks. I checked my manual on the correct page and saw where you found it. Thanks.

One other question.... when I'm using my HTPC to display either a DVD or a recorded TV show, does my HDTV also scale that to 1386x788? Thus, if I watch a DVD on my HTPC through a DVI->HDMI connection, is my HDTV upscaling that they same way it would upscale something from a stand-alone 480p DVD player?

Personally, I prefer having a player that outputs 480p (and DVD video is till 480 no matter how you look at it), but one that has high quality MGEG decoding and deinterlacing. If it doesn't do these well, scaling only compounds the problem.

Makes perfect sense to me. Are these some that are good for under $100?

One other question.... when I'm using my HTPC to display either a DVD or a recorded TV show, does my HDTV also scale that to 1386x788? Thus, if I watch a DVD on my HTPC through a DVI->HDMI connection, is my HDTV upscaling that they same way it would upscale something from a stand-alone 480p DVD player?Ah, this makes for an interesting little wrinkle.

Note that when you're using a truly digital, fixed-pixel display (ie, all DLPs, LCDs, plasmas or LCoS sets), ALL sources, regardless of type or source, have to be scaled by the TV to match the native resolution of the TV. Unlike a CRT which is capable of adapting itself to multiple scan rates and resolutions, a fixed-pixel display has only a single, unchanging resolution capability. The scaler that's built into your TV is designed to recognize any signals that don't match the LCD panels' native resolution, and the scale them to match the native resolution.

With your HTPC, you should try to output exactly the same resolution as your Sony LCD TV. You'll likely need something like PowerStrip to do this, and even with that utility you may have to do some experimentation with some of the advanced settings to get the 1:1 pixel mapping that's needed to bypass the television's internal scaler.

I had that about a page back. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6801083&&#post6801083

Maybe they've got two down there. I only went to the "sucken" side by where the bathrooms are. Don't remember a fireplace. Plus the TV was an LCD and inside a case down low and not on the wall. Was there another setup in the opposite corner by where the old Pasta House used to be?

Sorry I didn't see your prior post. Yes, the setup I'm referring to is over where Pasta House used to be. Its got a little seating group in front of a fireplace with the TV mounted to the side (i.e. not over the fireplace). Thinking back, I'm not positive it was a plasma, but I'm pretty sure it was wall mounted.

Makes perfect sense to me. Are these some that are good for under $100?
Sorry, I have no idea. My DVD player costs about $2K brand new, so I really don't know what's out there at the entry level.

Makes perfect sense to me. Are these some that are good for under $100? Not really, You couldnt build a decent DVD player for $100 in raw materials alone. Dont get cheap here, the source is the most important piece in the Home Theater chain. IMO, $100 DVD players are for 27" tube tvs

Ah, this makes for an interesting little wrinkle.

An unfortunate little wrinkle, I must say =]

With your HTPC, you should try to output exactly the same resolution as your Sony LCD TV. You'll likely need something like PowerStrip to do this, and even with that utility you may have to do some experimentation with some of the advanced settings to get the 1:1 pixel mapping that's needed to bypass the television's internal scaler.

Thanks, as always. Probably the most important question I have left: If I am unable to get the custom resolution that I want out of my HTPC (1368x768) is it going to damage my HDTV? Is there any possibility of that?

I'll be damned...

I got a response to my letter to KSDK. Dave Hummert at KSDK replied with the following:


Just knowing there are living beings taking breaths of air at KSDK is an improvement,


I got the same response to my email below:

Thank you for your note. We are aware of our technical issues with our network feed and are working to resolve those issues.
Dave Hummert

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:33 PM
To: Hummert, Dave
Subject: HDTV


Dear Sir,

I am writing to complain about the quality of KSDK's HDTV signal. I
receive your HD feed from Charter and have also viewed it OTA. I
must say the signal is quite awful, full of green artifacts and
severe degredation of picture quality. It is my understanding that
you are multicasting HD feeds with your dedicated weather channel,
which I never watch. Surely you must realize, as commercial tv
consumers, we are more interested in viewing high quality programming
that looks good - not 24 hour weather, which can be had from the
weather channel or the internet.

I know I am not alone in my disgust of your ongoing problems.
Several forums on the internet are filling up with complaints about
the quality of your service. Please understand that the less I watch
your station because of these issues, the less I see your sponsor's
advertisements and will not spend money on their fine products.

And finally, your station is billing itself as the "St. Louis Leader
in HDTV" just because you plan on showing your local news broadcast
in HDTV. This is certainly a joke, yes? If I can't even watch a
decent hour of Law and Order in HDTV because of your substandard
engineering team, why should I bother with your equally disappointing
news show?

Have a good evening. I am watching one of your competitors HDTV
channel tonight. And tomorrow. And next week. Unless you fix it.

Greg
St. Louis, MO 63112

Not really, You couldnt build a decent DVD player for $100 in raw materials alone. Dont get cheap here, the source is the most important piece in the Home Theater chain. IMO, $100 DVD players are for 27" tube tvs
I have to agree wholeheartedly. I just didn't want to come across like a snob & say $100 players are crap. But now that someone else has: don't get a $100 player.

You might look to see if you can find a player with the Faroudja deinterlacer that's in a reasonable price range. I prefer the Silicon Image deinterlacer, but that tends to show up only in higher end hardware (e.g. the Arcam DVD player I have).

Thanks, as always. Probably the most important question I have left: If I am unable to get the custom resolution that I want out of my HTPC (1368x768) is it going to damage my HDTV? Is there any possibility of that?The risk of damage as a result of sending something other than native resolution to the TV is zero.

Er, unless you're thinking of running 120 volts down your DVI cable... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/bevelheadgrl/thud.gif

Hmmmm -- my Phillips DVP-642 works quite well on my Plasma, and plays everything, including DIVX, etc.

And you CAN build a DVD player for that cheap .... just not here! zing!

It's actually more than a center channel. It's a Polk SurroundBar that provides a surround-like system (used in conjunction with a sub) for the room set-up challenged like myself.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/flatscreens/surroundbar/

How do you like your SurroundBar? I've seen it online but never in a store.

Did you check the similar Yamaha YSP800 and 1000? I've seen them at Best Buy but never really played with them

Blues game is listed on HDNet as well as Fox Sports Midwest HD feed tonight, vs Dallas Stars.

You might look to see if you can find a player with the Faroudja deinterlacer that's in a reasonable price range. I prefer the Silicon Image deinterlacer, but that tends to show up only in higher end hardware (e.g. the Arcam DVD player I have).

I've heard great things about the Oppo DVD player ( http://www.oppodigital.com/ ) and I have a Denon 1910 (which is now the 1920) and I like it.

How do you like your SurroundBar? I've seen it online but never in a store.

Did you check the similar Yamaha YSP800 and 1000? I've seen them at Best Buy but never really played with them

I'm not a high-end audiophile, but I am quite impressed with the job that it does providing a surround effect. I ended up buying my SurroundBar & Elite Plasma at Quality Sight & Sound in South County. Their pricing was very good & the owner (Ray) is a great guy & very knowledgable. They have a SurroundBar on display (or at least did recently) if you want to check it out. When I ordered mine, Polk had a promotion running that included a free subwoofer.

I did not really check out the Yamaha as it needs walls on both sides of the room to perform best from what I've read, which is not the case in my room.

Is the Blues game in HD anywhere on D*? It is blacked out on HDNet. FSMW says HD but I don't think D* has a channel for it.

Is the Blues game in HD anywhere on D*? It is blacked out on HDNet. FSMW says HD but I don't think D* has a channel for it.
It should be on 97, but it's blacked out there too.
Dug

it is on Charter 792 :D

it is on Charter 792 :D

In HD? :confused:

What the hell is the use in having Blues in Hd on D* if all they are going to do is black it out on channel 97. This makes no sense. I called and talked to three different people. Two csr's didn't even know who the Blues are much less understand what I was trying to explain to them. Morons!

In HD? :confused:


Yes we get to see them lose in wonderful HD glory on Charter.

What the hell is the use in having Blues in Hd on D* if all they are going to do is black it out on channel 97. This makes no sense. I called and talked to three different people. Two csr's didn't even know who the Blues are much less understand what I was trying to explain to them. Morons!

At least I'm not the only one that was asking myself that question. :rolleyes:

Well its not uncommon for sports to be blacked out on a national feed if a local feed is carrying the game. It was probably seen on HDNet in other parts of our nation.

Well its not uncommon for sports to be blacked out on a national feed if a local feed is carrying the game. It was probably seen on HDNet in other parts of our nation.
But, it was on HDNet AND Channel 97(usually special programming, ie FSN). 97 Should have been the local fsn feed
Dug

I think the reason that Channel 97 wasn't showing the Blues broadcast last night is that the opposing team's broadcast was being carried by DirecTV on 97 for the viewers in the other market.

This would be the opposite of the first Blues HD game against (I think) Columbus. In that situation, the St. Louis broadcast was carried and made available to STL-area DirecTV HD subscribers, but it wouldn't have been available to Columbus, OH viewers, because it would have had the effect of "stealing" viewers from the Columbus broadcast/sponsors.

More than likely, that's what happened last night.

I think the reason that Channel 97 wasn't showing the Blues broadcast last night is that the opposing team's broadcast was being carried by DirecTV on 97 for the viewers in the other market.

This would be the opposite of the first Blues HD game against (I think) Columbus. In that situation, the St. Louis broadcast was carried and made available to STL-area DirecTV HD subscribers, but it wouldn't have been available to Columbus, OH viewers, because it would have had the effect of "stealing" viewers from the Columbus broadcast/sponsors.

More than likely, that's what happened last night.

Yep, the home team gets first dibs on the national coverage for Center Ice.
The SD Center Ice game was also the Dallas feed, so naturally that was blacked
out, too.

I've been on the waiting list for the Moxi DVR since September 8. I've usually been calling back every other week to see what's going on and they're always out.

I called today and was told by two different CSRs that they no longer offer the single room Moxi DVR and that the double room is the only thing offered at an additional cost of $23 a month.

I explained is all I have is a single TV and don't need a multiroom setup. In so many words they said I was SOL.

[major sarcasm on]God I love Charter.[major sarcasm off]

Does anyone else have trouble getting dolby digital 5.1 sound from the Motorola box? I have one, non DVR, hooked up to my hdtv via DVI and to my reciever with a fiber optic cable. I have no problem getting dolby digital from DVD and laserdisc sources, but my reciever only shows Pro Logic II movie mode from this box. I looked through the boxes menu system but saw no options for enabling dolby digital output. I don't think it's a reciever issue because it does fine with other sources. Any thoughts?

I don't believe that is the case because the HD broadcast was on at my brothers house who has Charter. I believe it was a St. Louis feed. Another csr at D* I spoke argued with me and said there is no such channel as 97. He said that it isn't coming from D*. These guys are clueless. :mad:

dweebe -

Try going through retentions. Call up and ask to be transferred to a rentention specialist and tell them you are getting the run around and signed up for the DVR but now are being told it isn't avail. Which BTW is BS since my coworker did this last week and was given one. She was on the "waiting list" for 3 weeks and I told her to use this process and it worked. Kinda sucks that to get anything done you have to go through retentions. I had the same issues when I was with D* but a direct no hold phone number to retention was great. I now use the same process with Sprint PCS. Direct number to rentention to bypass the off-shore CSRs. :D

dweebe,

This sounds a bit fishy to me, so if you haven't already done so, I'd try calling back to talk to a different CSR. Or better yet, speak with the retention desk and let them know that if you can't get a DVR suitable for your needs at a reasonable cost, that you'll be decamping shortly for another service.

This seems very unreasonable to me. This also illustrates the shortcomings of the idea that renting equipment is always better than buying. It might be a good deal for the generic stuff, but for stuff like this you're going to be much more at the mercy of Charter's business priorities. They have virtually unlimited pricing flexibility in these sort of areas, as all the regulatory nonsense is focused on the programming fees.

And clearly, Charter is gearing up for a series of price increases in order to improve the poor bottom line.

I don't believe that is the case because the HD broadcast was on at my brothers house who has Charter. I believe it was a St. Louis feed. Another csr at D* I spoke argued with me and said there is no such channel as 97. He said that it isn't coming from D*. These guys are clueless. :mad:

FSN Midwest did carry the game in HD. FSN Southwest also carried the game in HD.
FSN Southwest has the national rights to broadcast the game in HD via the Center
ICE package because they are the home team broadcasters.

I just don't see DirecTV carrying both HD feeds for the same game due to their
bandwidth restraint issues. Now, if DirecTV and FSN Midwest had an exclusive must
carry for the games for local subscribers that would be one thing, but they haven't
done this with any of the FSN regionals.

dweebe,

And if all else fails, it's said that Tivo will have a cablecard HD DVR available sometime next year. Might just have your name on it.

Already screwed up and deleted the email I received with the link, but ReplayTV has announced its own multimedia software for HTPC's "coming soon." If it can recognize and record from FusionHDTV cards, I'm in!!!!!!!!!

Already screwed up and deleted the email I received with the link, but ReplayTV has announced its own multimedia software for HTPC's "coming soon." If it can recognize and record from FusionHDTV cards, I'm in!!!!!!!!!

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/about/replaytv/press.asp?ID=613

Thanks all. I've been on hold for about 10 minutes trying to get to a retention specialist. Will let you know how it turns out.

The only problem is that I'm in an apartment with no south view and no area of exclusive control. So I can't instal Direct or Dish. I'm stuck with the (insert many bad words here) at Charter

Thanks for the link, Rich.

Hmm, article says Replay will be bundling their new software with Hauppauge cards. I guess that means we'll have to wait for Hauppauge to do an HD card. Hopefully Replay will sell the software separately, too.

For all with HTPC's here, MediaPortal finally released version 0.20RC2 (originally promised for late October IIRC) of its freeware HTPC front end. If interested, you'll need to install Microsoft's dotnet framework v2.0 first (RC1 used dotnet v1.1). Not many added features, but the authors have promised it's a LOT more stable than RC1. One nice feature is the formerly HUGE status bar isn't so huge anymore. It still won't record from my Fusion card. :( But with the HDTVpump filter it plays back .tp streams recorded with the Fusion software fine and dandy.

MP's web site doesn't say it anywhere, but to save yourself the huge headaches I had the last two days COMPLETELY UNINSTALL RC1 or any previous version of MP before installing the new one. Then go into Windows Explorer and MANUALLY DELETE the MediaPortal folder. THEN go ahead and install RC2.

MP Home page: http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net

HDTV Pump to allow MP (and any other DirectShow media player) to play transport streams: http://www.dvbportal.de/projects/hdtvpump/

Does anyone else have trouble getting dolby digital 5.1 sound from the Motorola box? I have one, non DVR, hooked up to my hdtv via DVI and to my reciever with a fiber optic cable. I have no problem getting dolby digital from DVD and laserdisc sources, but my reciever only shows Pro Logic II movie mode from this box. I looked through the boxes menu system but saw no options for enabling dolby digital output. I don't think it's a reciever issue because it does fine with other sources. Any thoughts?

Back before I gave Charter the boot, I had the same issue with my HD Moxi box and regular HD receiver. Couldn't get a 5.1 on either one of them to output to my A/V receiver. I tried messign with the setup menus, but still nothing. It's not exactly rocket science to tell these boxes to output 5.1 if available. When I called the help desk, they just wanted to send a tech out, who probably wouldn't have been much help either. Words cannot describe the amount of spite I have for this company. How they are still able to function as a business is beyond me. But, I digress...

Does anyone else have trouble getting dolby digital 5.1 sound from the Motorola box? I have one, non DVR, hooked up to my hdtv via DVI and to my reciever with a fiber optic cable. I have no problem getting dolby digital from DVD and laserdisc sources, but my reciever only shows Pro Logic II movie mode from this box. I looked through the boxes menu system but saw no options for enabling dolby digital output. I don't think it's a reciever issue because it does fine with other sources. Any thoughts?

Gtaylor -

Might be a stupid question, but are you certain that what your trying to watch is broadcast in DD 5.1? Is the STB an HDSTB?

I don't have the motorola box, but I too use fiber optic to connect my SD STB to my receiver. Most of the time, I only get Pro Logic II as well. However, when something is broadcastin DD 5.1, you can definitely tell the difference.

Perhaps we can figure this out with more detail.

I have no problems getting 5.1 from my Moxi, with programs that are broadcast in 5.1, which of course is not everything. ProLogic works fine too. Using lightpipe.

Hello and thanks for the responses. I have the Motorola box from Charter which is an HD box. It is not a DVR box, just the regular HD box. I get the HD channels such as HDNet, HDmovies, Discovery HD, etc. As stated above, only certain programming is broadcast in 5.1, and I will use the program guide to see if it has the 5.1 symbol, but even when they do, I still only get pro logic II. My reciever is a Pioneer Elite 49TXi and I get 5.1 dolby digital from laserdisc and dvd sources with no issues. It automatically switches to the 5.1 when the soundtrack is encoded as such.

Edit: I'm wondering now if it may not be the input on the reciever. My old reciever had certain inputs, such as CD, that would not change over to 5.1 since CD's don't come in 5.1. It may be possible that my input I'm using, the TV input, isn't capable of 5.1. I'm going to try to change inputs and see if that makes any difference.

Robert,

You probably saw this elsewhere, but in the event it slipped between the cracks, ReplayTV recently announced that they are completely out of the DVR hardware business. I don't think this has any bearing on the PC effort, but I'm not entirely sure.

FWIW, RTV's hardware announcement merely formalized what had already been decided and happened months earlier.

I'm wondering now if it may not be the input on the reciever. My old reciever had certain inputs, such as CD, that would not change over to 5.1 since CD's don't come in 5.1. It may be possible that my input I'm using, the TV input, isn't capable of 5.1. I'm going to try to change inputs and see if that makes any difference.[/QUOTE]

Are you using a optical cable to your receiver? It is the only way you are going to get 5.1.

Hello and thanks for the responses. I have the Motorola box from Charter which is an HD box. It is not a DVR box, just the regular HD box. I get the HD channels such as HDNet, HDmovies, Discovery HD, etc. As stated above, only certain programming is broadcast in 5.1, and I will use the program guide to see if it has the 5.1 symbol, but even when they do, I still only get pro logic II. My reciever is a Pioneer Elite 49TXi and I get 5.1 dolby digital from laserdisc and dvd sources with no issues. It automatically switches to the 5.1 when the soundtrack is encoded as such.

Edit: I'm wondering now if it may not be the input on the reciever. My old reciever had certain inputs, such as CD, that would not change over to 5.1 since CD's don't come in 5.1. It may be possible that my input I'm using, the TV input, isn't capable of 5.1. I'm going to try to change inputs and see if that makes any difference.


Well ... what kind of audio input are you using? In order to get Dolby you need to use either a digital coax or spdif lightpipe ... does every audio input on your receiver have digital inputs, or just analog? Obviously if you are using analog audio inputs there is no way you can get Dolby. Sorry if this seems condescending - but my receiver only has two digital inputs overall - which is why I can only get Dolby from my Moxi and my DVD player, and I sacrifice sound for my PS2.

I was wondering if it is frowned upon to sell new and/or used stuff in this thread or elsewhere on avsforum. I have a 3ish month old Pani plasma (and other things too) that I'm looking to unload and I thought that selling it locally would be much less of a hassle than trying to hawk it on eBay. So, if anybody could point me to a good place to do this, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

(P.S. - Craigslist immediately comes to mind. Does anybody have any comments about that?)

Yes, I am using a digital cable, fiber optic type as it is the only type of digital output the motorola box has. It has no digital coax. My reciever is the former Pioneer elite flagship reciever and has 4 or 5 digital fiber inputs, so I've got plenty of inputs. Anyway, I have no issue with dd with either dvd or laserdisc, only this box. I'm going to try a different digital input tonight, the same one my dvd player is currently using. I know for a fact that the dvd input does 5.1 so the motoralo box should too if it is working right.

Try looking in the cable box menu to see if Dolby Digital is for a lack of a better word turned on or set to default. I know on my D* tivo I had to change the settings in my menu for it to work.

Try looking in the cable box menu to see if Dolby Digital is for a lack of a better word turned on or set to default. I know on my D* tivo I had to change the settings in my menu for it to work.


That is true in the settings there are check boxes for the type of audio output.

I was wondering if it is frowned upon to sell new and/or used stuff in this thread or elsewhere on avsforum. I have a 3ish month old Pani plasma (and other things too) that I'm looking to unload and I thought that selling it locally would be much less of a hassle than trying to hawk it on eBay. So, if anybody could point me to a good place to do this, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

(P.S. - Craigslist immediately comes to mind. Does anybody have any comments about that?)

Craigslist is a good resource.

Try looking in the cable box menu to see if Dolby Digital is for a lack of a better word turned on or set to default. I know on my D* tivo I had to change the settings in my menu for it to work.

I tried that and I couldn't find any audio menus. This box only gives you the ability to choose either the DVI or component outputs, to use 720p or 1080i, and then a 4x3 override function and whether to output 480i or 480p. Everything else is greyed out but I don't see an audio function. Unless there is another audio menu in there somewhere. Thanks to all for your suggestions.

You can list on eBay and specify that delivery is local only.

Does CraigsList get much traffic here? The times I've checked it in the past, it didn't seem that active. Then again, I first came across CraigsList in SF, so maybe the local list just seems slow by comparison.

ebay owns a piece of CraigsList, or did at one point.

You can list on eBay and specify that delivery is local only.

Does CraigsList get much traffic here? The times I've checked it in the past, it didn't seem that active. Then again, I first came across CraigsList in SF, so maybe the local list just seems slow by comparison.

ebay owns a piece of CraigsList, or did at one point.

Watch out with Craigslist. The scammers run rampant there. Don't deal with anyone non-local trying to pay you for something with a money order (like Western Union). It's almost surely a scam. Best to deal with local people face to face only. Or insist on PayPal with a confirmed address.

Having a new Samsung DLP HL-R4266w delivered Sat. AmI ready for some Football?!?!?!?!

Question; Do these new DLP sets new calibration? The Owner Manual says no.

Are the DVD Calibration disks good for this task. I have one I used on my JVC rear projection set couple of years ago. I really liked the results, but wanted to access your guys opinions


Thanks

Sheerluck,

All displays require calibration if you wish to see accurate color displayed. TV manufacturers set up their displays for the worst-case room lighting scenario, so that no matter where the TV ends up it looks halfway decent. They are also focused on producing the maximum light output, because they assume that any TV they build could end up on a showroom floor. The average consumer unconsciously selects the brightest TV as having the "best" picture, so that's how they're set up at the factory.

I have calibrated a half dozen of the HLR model Samsung DLPs, and all of them started off at least 9,000K in color temperature (blue), rather than the standard D6500. FWIW, the following is a before/after snapshot of the color temperature measurements of a recent HLR DLP that I calibrated:


Level Pre-Cal Post-Cal
20 IRE 9727 6732
30 IRE 10546 6715
40 IRE 9970 6744
50 IRE 10118 6682
60 IRE 10127 6541
70 IRE 10008 6663
80 IRE 10530 6702
90 IRE 10322 6615
100 IRE 10255 6572
The Samsung HLP and HLR models also have the ability to accurately align the color gamut (the actual color or red, green, blue primaries, and cyan, magenta and yellow secondaries) to SMPTE or HDTV standards. Again, this is not correct out of the box.

While the AVIA and Digital Video Essentials discs are useful for basic setup of your set's contrast, brightness and color balance, this process shouldn't be confused with "calibration." Calibration entails adjustment of grayscale and the color gamut, and this requires service menu adjustments and color analyzer equipment.

One of the enduring conflicts in the television business is between the marketing organizations and the engineering staff -- I have little doubt that this is why Samsung's unfortunate DNIe technology is not only built into the HLR model sets but cannot be turned off by the user in any viewing mode. Marketing thrives on differentiation, and DNIe gives them something that no other manufacturer can claim -- even though the DNIe processing completely guts picture quality. However, DNIe can be minimized through a series of service menu adjustments.

It's ironic that Samsung would pooh-pooh calibration in the owners' manual, since it has contracted with ISF consultants for several years, specifically for the development of its DLP projectors and RPTVs.

I suspect Samsung marketing authored the user manual with little input from anyone with a technical background.

I appreciate that this is rather far off-topic, but I thought it's worth pointing out to DirecTV customers the recently added XM Radio channels, which replace the former Total Music Choice service.

I sort of ignored the XM additions when they first were added back in November, but I recently reprogrammed a couple dozen of these stations into my Pronto to make them more accessible and I have to say I'm really enjoying them -- a lot! It's easy to see why terrestrial radio is sweating bullets and trying to get the FCC to make it harder for satellite radio to serve its customers.

I have DirecTV's Total Choice Plus service and as a result I receive 67 of the XM channels. I initially thought that getting all these channels might be a "tease" with an add-on fee down the road, but checking the DirecTV web site, this looks to be a permanent addition (for now, at least).

Anyway, the XM stuff is definitely worth checking out. For me, it's been sort of like a Christmas present I gave myself...without pulling out my wallet. :)

I have had XM for about a year , first in my car and now in my home.I have Polks XM tuner. I compared the sound quality between the Polk and D* and the Polk sounds twice as good. I was thinking of canceling my XM account and just listen through D* but the sound quality is much better. I don't think I will never go back to FM unless XM starts having commercials. I just wish they didn't charge for additional radio's. Also I just read somewhere XM will be broadcasting some channels ( I think in Februrary) in 5.1.

On the calibration issue, is the THX video calibration routine available on many DVDs accurate? I've used it without the blue glasses and I belive it has improved my picture significantly, particularly brightness and contrast, but have found the need to tweak the settings to please me. Is it me or the THX routine?

I've been on the waiting list for the Moxi DVR since September 8. I've usually been calling back every other week to see what's going on and they're always out.

I called today and was told by two different CSRs that they no longer offer the single room Moxi DVR and that the double room is the only thing offered at an additional cost of $23 a month.

I explained is all I have is a single TV and don't need a multiroom setup. In so many words they said I was SOL.

[major sarcasm on]God I love Charter.[major sarcasm off]

I called Charter in early November and had the MOXI before Thanksgiving, I don't know what their problem is. People want to give them money, you would think they would figure out a way to take it.

Steve

I haven't checked closely into the THX patterns, though I've obviously seen them on a number of DVDs. However, I have read that they sometimes vary according to the wishes of the studio or filmmaker. If that's true, it obviously undermines the whole point of having standards.

If you're interested in doing basic setup of your display, I'd recommend either AVIA Guide to Home Theater or Digital Video Essentials. These cost around $35 each, but you can often find them in lending libraries. Personally, I prefer AVIA for its fairly simple navigation system.

The point you make about the blue glasses is interesting. Setting color (saturation) and tint (phase) with filters can be a hit-and-miss proposition. The key problem is that the filters are typically designed to match the SMPTE standard for primary colors (red, green and blue) but no manufacturer that I know of abides by SMPTE (it's that differentiation thing again). As a result, red or green light may leak through when you using a blue filter, and sometimes this can be significant enough to skew your color balance.

As a result of the variations in primary colors, you ideally need either manual color isolation (easy on a rear- or front-projection CRT -- just cover over the CRTs for the colors you want to block) or electronic isolation, which several manufacturers provide through service menu switches in some of their displays (Sony, Hitachi and Panasonic are pretty good about this).

The other thing about THX patterns -- or any other DVD-based test disc -- is that unless they are being used in conjunction with an upscaling DVD player, they won't be very useful setting up your display for HD sources. For these resolutions, you need electronically generated test signals, and this is what I use for calibration for HD sources.

Anybody need a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna before I send it back opened? It didn't work for me in Richmond Heights. (I'm too low behind the hill between me and the antennas.)

Just thought I'd share this info when I emailed KPLR about Blues hockey and Cardinals baseball:

Dec 29, 2005 10:10 AM
None of the Blues games is currently scheduled to air in HD. We plan to air
11 Cardinals games in HD next season.

Just thought I'd share this info when I emailed KPLR about Blues hockey and Cardinals baseball:

Dec 29, 2005 10:10 AM
None of the Blues games is currently scheduled to air in HD. We plan to air
11 Cardinals games in HD next season.I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting more KPLR HD games in 2006, but I'm still happy...http://ta7.de/tmp/victory.gif

I'll be even happier if we get another 20 or so HD games from FSN (and all of them find their way to a channel on DirecTV).

Me, I'm very dissapointed. I thought they would do some hockey and definitly do more baseball, and yea lets hope D* gets on the ball with FSMW HD. He scoooores. Blues just tied it four four.

Happy New Year, everyone.

Let's hope its a better year for everyone!

It's already looking good for me....

I finally have live TV working with MediaPortal and the Fusion3 card. No more having to exit MP and start up the Fusion software when wanting to watch/record something live on the HTPC!

It's already looking good for me....

I finally have live TV working with MediaPortal and the Fusion3 card. No more having to exit MP and start up the Fusion software when wanting to watch/record something live on the HTPC!

Glad your HTPC is working. I'm about ready to give up on mine and just use it as another desktop =[

Number one, after reformatting, and reinstalling, I can get HDTV video through my Avermedia A180 card and then displayed on the TV, but I get no audio. However, when I play DVDs on the HTPC I get audio as well as previously recorded things. I don't get it. Then, the video I do have stutters, and there seems to be black bars on the top and bottom of everything I watch.

Finally, the Windows resolution is about as far off as you can get and it will not allow me to change it.

Glad someone's enjoying the HTPC experiment!

Regarding the local New Years' Eve coverage, I have a question and a comment or two.

First, did anyone else try to watch the "ball drop" at midnight our time? I was stunned, shocked, and dismayed as the "party" I was at decided to turn it on only to discover that FOX with Regis was the only local station covering the ball dropping (on tape) at midnight our time. KMOV had St. Louis Country (unreal), KSDK had (what I think was a repeat of) Saturday Night Live, and KDNL had the Hilary Duff thing but was showing a performance of 311 (is this 2005/6 or 1998?!?!) at precisely midnight our time.

Frankly, I was supremely disappointed. I love Reege, but that was a trainwreck on FOX what with Jillian Barberie. Also, it was not in HD, whcih was shocking to me. However, the HIlary Duff thing on KDNL was in HD and looked pretty decent.

New Years Eve on TV
----------------------------
WinstonSmith said = Frankly, I was supremely disappointed.

I agree

We turned on ABC-30 at 10:55 CST and were looking forward to the ball drop, only to see that they were tape delaying it for an hour - it took so long to figure it out at 11 that we had missed it on NBC-5 with Carson Daly and Regis on Fox- 2. It seemed fairly clear that the across-the- nation 'Dick Clark parties' were likely filmed last September. We turned it all off by 11:10 CST and partied-on on our own .

jim

Glad your HTPC is working. I'm about ready to give up on mine and just use it as another desktop =[

Number one, after reformatting, and reinstalling, I can get HDTV video through my Avermedia A180 card and then displayed on the TV, but I get no audio. However, when I play DVDs on the HTPC I get audio as well as previously recorded things. I don't get it. Then, the video I do have stutters, and there seems to be black bars on the top and bottom of everything I watch.

Finally, the Windows resolution is about as far off as you can get and it will not allow me to change it.

Glad someone's enjoying the HTPC experiment!

I had a lot of problems with my old HiPix card - finally got it working but the headaches made me want to give up on the whole idea. That experience was reversed with the MyHD (first an MDP-120 and now an MDP-130). I plugged them into a PCI slot, loaded the software and tuned the HD stations. It has been mostly pain free - at least as pain free as anything on a computer can be.

I had a lot of problems with my old HiPix card - finally got it working but the headaches made me want to give up on the whole idea. That experience was reversed with the MyHD (first an MDP-120 and now an MDP-130). I plugged them into a PCI slot, loaded the software and tuned the HD stations. It has been mostly pain free - at least as pain free as anything on a computer can be.

I was able to do that with the Fusion3 card and the software that came with it, but until now had a BIG problem getting any HTPC front end software to show anything but a black screen with no audio. This was the case with MediaPortal, GB-PVR, SageTV, and GotAllMedia.

The new version of MP has a new capture source to choose during setup: "FusionHDTV3 transport stream capture" or something like that. Previously the only choice was "FusionHDTV3 WDM capture." That, probably more than anything I did myself, was the key. But here's what I did anyway....

1. Make sure the Fusion software itself is not running. Just exiting the little icon in the system tray isn't enough, you have to uncheck the option for auto loading the Fusion agent and reboot.

2. While MP is NOT running, enter the MP setup program and clear all channels from the EPG.

3. Log into zap2it.com manually and write down the exact names zap2it gave to each channel.

4. Have MP Setup do an autotune of all channels. Note the names MP gives each channel and how they're different from the channel names zap2it gave them. For example, MP gives KPLR the name "WB-11, St. Louis' Digital WB" while zap2it named the same channel simply "11 KPLRDT."

5. Change the name (and maybe even the number) of each channel to the EXACT name given to each by zap2it. In the above example, you'll change the name of KPLR to "11 KPLRDT" and make sure the channel number is 11.

6. Make sure your video codec is "zulu DxVa mpeg decoder" and renderer is "VMR9 renderless." My choice of audio codec is "ffdshow audio decoder" which I've configured to just send all audio unaltered through the SPDIF optical output to my Pioneer Elite receiver.

I *think* that's everything I did to get live TV and recording a show with MP working. I'm still having a problem PLAYING BACK a show that MP recorded. MP uses Microsoft's .dvr-ms format for recording off HD cards (I really hate Microsoft and its proprietary formats), and MP can't play back its own files! For that matter, VLC can't play the dvr-ms files either. And VLC is known for being able to play just about anything, even if you've never installed the codec for it!

I've also not gotten it to timeshift (pause live TV, etc) yet. When I turn timeshifting on, the screen immediately goes black. I turn timeshifting back off, the picture immediately comes back. I suspect this is also because of the dvr-ms thing. Gonna download the newest DirectX 9.0c dated 12/8/2005 and see if that fixes anything. Might have to download Windows Media Player 10, too. MediaPortal uses the Windows Media Player engine and my current WMP is version 9.

Happy New Year to everybody here!

Dear KMOV,

I have checket thouroghly and your missing child is not in my living room.

Now, please switch back to HD and put the CORRECT game back up.

Dear KMOV,

I have checket thouroghly and your missing child is not in my living room.

Now, please switch back to HD and put the CORRECT game back up.


hahaha

While we're on KMOV, has any one noticed deinterlacing artifacts, jagged edges on objects or in my case occasional instances of the picture having the appearance of being wide bars not properly lined up on OTA broadcast? It does not occur during the commercials. It's particularly apparent on NCIS, but I've noticed it on CSI and Numbers. I'm trying to figure out if it's KMOV or the software updates I made to my video card and Fusion HDTV tuner card. I do not see it on the other 1080i stations (although I don't watch them very much) or any 720p station. Thanks.

Off Topic: Is anyone else having problems with Charter Pipeline today (1/1) and yesterday? Its really, really slow and at times I can't even connect.

CES - Las Vegas - SBC/ATT Bigger Player
---

"Meanwhile, telecom giant AT&T Inc. (T) [SBC recently merged with AT&T] will highlight a new set-top-box that will deliver video-on-demand programming from a satellite source, caller ID, as well as Yahoo-based Internet content - all via a television and a remote control.

"We'll see a lot of new ways to get content to the consumer at CES," Berman said. "Everyone is trying to find ways of reaching that huge, segmented audience.""


the entire article can be found at:

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060102/D8ES873O0.html
-----------------------------------------------

Off Topic: Is anyone else having problems with Charter Pipeline today (1/1) and yesterday? Its really, really slow and at times I can't even connect.
Fine here. Have used it several hours, during both yesterday and today.
If you decide to call Charter be sure to select the "help with email" option, rather than the "help with connectivity" option.
The email option connects you directly to a support tech.
The connectivity option lands you in a maze of computerized commands of how-to's.

Rebooting your modem can help most times.

HDTV Tuner
--------------
From today's email from Radio Shack Outlet

HDTV Receiver with HDMI Output Jack
Model: HTS 6000 | Catalog #: 16-3499

Tuner enables you to receive HDTV signals from cable or outside antenna, while viewing programming normal and widescreen In-store: $89.98 Available at most stores

jim

My pipeline service was out for a couple of hours tonight. Cablemodem was rebooting on its own repeatedly the entire time.

Very similar to Thursday when it was down for nearly the entire day. A call to the tech support line gave a recording that said Pipeline service in O'Fallon Missouri was down with no estimate on when it would be fixed. Finally got fixed around 8PM that day.

Luckily the outage was a lot shorter tonight.

Would someone be good enough to explain why SNF was broadcast on both ESPN/ESPNHD and on ABC Sunday night, please.
I've read about ABC Sports and ESPN combining, merging, or whatever it was they did, but I do not understand the reasoning behind the simulcast, and the reasoning why it was broadcast in HD on ESPNHD, and in SD on ABC (30-1).
tia

Whenever an NFL game is on a cable/sat-only channel like ESPN, local OTA stations are given the option to air it for folks without cable or satellite. That's some sort of NFL policy.

Pipeline is now back for me.

I'm glad to know it wasn't just me that had the problem!

Off Topic: Is anyone else having problems with Charter Pipeline today (1/1) and yesterday? Its really, really slow and at times I can't even connect.

First thing to try, always, is to power down the cable modem for 10-15 seconds, then power back on. Waiting for it to come on by itself, you could wait a long time. Some modems won't reset automatically.

I probably missed it, but which computer did you end up with for a HTPC?

AT&T to Buy DISH?

The following item appears in "The Hi-Def Life," a new spinoff of the TVPredictions.com daily newsletter:
_________________________________________________

Rumors are flying that AT&T may be close to buying EchoStar, the nation's second largest satellite TV service.

I predicted last year that EchoStar would either be bought or merge with a larger company. The satcaster needs deeper pockets to compete with the News Corp-owned DIRECTV and the cable TV industry.

If AT&T purchased EchoStar, owned currently by Charlie Ergen, it would be great news for high-def fans. The new owners would certainly understand the importance of investing heavily in new satellites that would enable EchoStar to offer more HDTV channels, including local channels.
________________________________________________

To read more of the Hi-Def Life, click here. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/thehighdeflife.htm)


FWIW, it seems to me that there's additional potential here, as AT&T's Project Lightspeed could also be deployed in conjunction with more advanced DISH receivers to provide true video-on-demand, as well as allow DISH to match or better cable's "triple play" bundle.

I still think this is a far more logical approach for a teleco than entering the cable TV business directly...

I have had XM for about a year , first in my car and now in my home.I have Polks XM tuner. I compared the sound quality between the Polk and D* and the Polk sounds twice as good. I was thinking of canceling my XM account and just listen through D* but the sound quality is much better. I don't think I will never go back to FM unless XM starts having commercials. I just wish they didn't charge for additional radio's. Also I just read somewhere XM will be broadcasting some channels ( I think in Februrary) in 5.1.I don't have any basis of comparison for XM on DirecTV to the genuine product, but since I'm listening to these channels primarily as background music (albeit a LOUD background), quality is not my primary concern.

The main benefit of XM Radio for me is exposure to new music, something that simply doesn't happen via terrestrial radio in any meaningful way. I might be slightly underestimating it, but it seems like most pop music FM stations today have a playlist of no more than a dozen current songs.

I have also sat down and done some conventional listening and the XM channels don't seem horrible. FWIW, my Yamaha receiver indicates that they're coming through at a sampling rate of 48K, which is actually better than CD rates. But, of course, the real question is how much processing/compression they've undergone from both the XM and DirecTV sides before final delivery.

Interesting news on the rumored 5.1 XM channels -- the next-generation music formats (DVD-Audio and SACD) are on life support and could definitely benefit from this sort of shot in the arm...

Since we're talking about music, I'd like to go off topic for a second. Has anyone purchased a DualDisc (the ones that have a cd on one side and a dvd on the other)? If so, have you been able to get the cd side to run on your computer? I'd like to make a "backup" of the cd, but have been unable.

Tim

Tim - the DDs have been real hit and miss for me. The cd side works in some of my players, but not others. For the most part, the ones I have, seem to play in my laptop without an issue. I think this is one of those grey areas where it's random between players and which will read the discs because they are not up to official "CD Specs".

I do know one way in which dualdiscs differ from regular CD's is that even on the CD side, the sampling rate is 48kHz (normal CD's use 44.1kHz). That could explain why some (mostly older) CD players puke on them.

I'm not aware of any copy protection on DD's, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case.... especially given the recent fiasco with Sony CD's.

I appreciate that this is rather far off-topic, but I thought it's worth pointing out to DirecTV customers the recently added XM Radio channels, which replace the former Total Music Choice service.

I sort of ignored the XM additions when they first were added back in November, but I recently reprogrammed a couple dozen of these stations into my Pronto to make them more accessible and I have to say I'm really enjoying them -- a lot! It's easy to see why terrestrial radio is sweating bullets and trying to get the FCC to make it harder for satellite radio to serve its customers.

I have DirecTV's Total Choice Plus service and as a result I receive 67 of the XM channels. I initially thought that getting all these channels might be a "tease" with an add-on fee down the road, but checking the DirecTV web site, this looks to be a permanent addition (for now, at least).

Anyway, the XM stuff is definitely worth checking out. For me, it's been sort of like a Christmas present I gave myself...without pulling out my wallet. :)

I too am thoroughly enjoying XM at home now. Another D* perk i guess. D* rocks!

Scott

DishNet has had Sirius for quite some time.

I'm getting sound but no picture on 30-1. Anyone else????

EDIT 12:08 -- It seems to be working now. I hope it is fixed....

EDIT 12:15 -- No picture again. Now the sound went also... Good Lord.

EDIT 12:22 -- Working again.

Sure would be nice to have 30.1 working today and tomorrow and Wednesday!

Sure would be nice to have 30.1 working today and tomorrow and Wednesday!

That's asking a lot it appears.