Does anyone know when Charter will turn on espnhd? I hope its not like Discovery HD--i.e., some Charter systems have it...some don't and continue to wait for it (like St. Louis).

FYI... we are still sending out upconverted 720P and passing through 720P from ABC. We have not experimented with 1080i for sometime. And yes, we are working on 5.1...don't have all the equipment yet and installation will be time consuming.
Jim

Currently I pay Charter $3 more for HD services (local channels) and I pay another charge for HD NET channels.

HD NET (MOVIES AND ENTERTAINMENT) $3.99
HD INTEGRATED INTERACTIVE SERVICE $3.00

What does Dish and Dir TV charge for HD package that includes ESPN HD?

Originally posted by redwine

What does Dish and Dir TV charge for HD package that includes ESPN HD?

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV_pricing.dsp

With DirecTV, $10.99 gets you 4 HD channels:

HDNET
HDNET Movies
ESPN HD
Discovery HD Theater

As with Charter, HD versions of Showtime and HBO are included with your HBO and/or Showtime premium subscriptions.

Originally posted by jdiehl
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDTV_pricing.dsp

With DirecTV, $10.99 gets you 4 HD channels:

HDNET
HDNET Movies
ESPN HD
Discovery HD Theater

As with Charter, HD versions of Showtime and HBO are included with your HBO and/or Showtime premium subscriptions.
One additional,
You can currently get all digital locals with a relatively simple antenna setup if you are within 20-30 miles of StL. There are some instances where the antennas need help like towers if you are in a valley.
Dug

Originally posted by Mr_Bester
One additional,
You can currently get all digital locals with a relatively simple antenna setup if you are within 20-30 miles of StL. There are some instances where the antennas need help like towers if you are in a valley.
Dug

That has nothing to do with their programming though. That's seperate from the service they provide, just a feature of the hardware that you purchased (which might be redundant for many that have HDTV's with internal tuners already).

Jon's right about the internal tuners being an "extra" feature of the satellite boxes. Obviously this figures into the cost of the box to some extent, but even the cheapest standalone OTA tuner will cost around $400 new, so I think it's fair to say that there's a significant discount for the OTA tuners built into satellite receivers.

Also, as a general rule I suggest that prospective buyers of HDTVs forego, where possible, sets with internal tuners. While these built-in OTA tuners are soon to become mandatory in the largest sets (and then progressively in smaller sets over time), for now they are not.

I don't think internal tuners are a very good value, and worse you are locked into a technology that will continue evolving during the life of the set. IMO, it's much better to buy a set without an internal tuner and then purchase an external OTA-only or OTA/Sat STB combo. While there's not much benefit (if any) in terms of dollars and cents in buying a separate tuner, it will provide a great deal more flexibility as the technology and feature sets of digital tuners evolve.

When there are enough improvements in performance or features in new OTA or satellite tuners, you can upgrade the STB for your primary set and then relegate the old box to a secondary set, or worst case use it to receive downconverted digital broadcasts on non-digital sets.

With a built-in tuner, you can still upgrade (assuming sufficient inputs available), but the built-in tuner becomes a sunk cost.

Of course, cable is also an alternative to a built-in or external OTA tuner, but that's not a truly viable option until a complete package of locals is offered.

I want my movies to be in widescreen and HD now that I have a TV that can deliver it. I expect Charter or the satellite guys to provide that considering we pay extra for "premium" channels. The Tonight Show and ER in HD is nice but movies are what widescreen and HD are made for.

I was just looking at an add for VOOM in a Sears flyer. In the fine print it says, "The Starz, HBO, and Cinemax Plus Packs are provided via satellite capacity that is only temporarily available, our regulatory authority to transmit this programming may expire at any time, and we may be required to cease providing this programming to customers without notice."

This is in very fine print. Does anyone know what that is all about? I was considering VOOM even though it is expensive but if it is also unreliable I will not waste my time and just continue to be disappointed by Charter.

Jim,

Thanks for the info, obviously my data is out of date ;)

Cheers,

Originally posted by jdiehl
That has nothing to do with their programming though. That's seperate from the service they provide, just a feature of the hardware that you purchased (which might be redundant for many that have HDTV's with internal tuners already).
Sorry Jon,
I didn't mean to dis cable, I don't like it, but many do. I should have said one bonus rather additional.
Dug

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Also, as a general rule I suggest that prospective buyers of HDTVs forego, where possible, sets with internal tuners. While these built-in OTA tuners are soon to become mandatory in the largest sets (and then progressively in smaller sets over time), for now they are not.

I don't think internal tuners are a very good value, and worse you are locked into a technology that will continue evolving during the life of the set. IMO, it's much better to buy a set without an internal tuner and then purchase an external OTA-only or OTA/Sat STB combo. While there's not much benefit (if any) in terms of dollars and cents in buying a separate tuner, it will provide a great deal more flexibility as the technology and feature sets of digital tuners evolve.


Usually I agree with you, but on this point I don't. With the 03/04 crop of sets this point is gone. My Hitachi 57S700 cost me about $100 more than a 57S500. And what was the difference? The S700 had an internal tuner and firewire. The S500 didn't. The S500 had DVI and 2 component inputs, the S700 had DVI and 2 component inputs.

So in other words, for $100 I got an internal digital tuner and firewire. A pretty darn good deal in my opinion. Do I use the internal tuner? Yes, for PinP capability and occasionally it has been more reliable than my 811. And if the next gen boxes or cable company is more reliable, than so be it - I didn't give up an input for my internal tuner.

Chris

Chris,

At just a $100 premium, I'd have to agree with you. But I'm surprised that this is actually the rule with the newest sets -- to be honest, I haven't done the A-B price comparison in a few months.

I'd say that if you can get an internal tuner for less than $250 over the cost of the same model without the tuner, you should probably go ahead and do it. Even if you'd end up upgrading over it in 3 or 4 years, you'd be paying a reasonable amount for the period it was used (roughly cable box rental rates).

There is still the lost utility of moving the old tuner to an secondary room, but by that time there might well be under-$100 OTA tuners.

Who would've thought we'd see -- but not necessarily watch -- $49 DVD players (before mail-in rebate)... :eek:

Note: I've noticed over the last couple of months that a lot of the same questions are being asked pretty regularly about the use of antennae to receive digital broadcasts. As a result, I thought it might be a good idea to develop an antenna-specific item that can be posted regularly at the start of the monthly thread.

To that end, I've put together the following rough draft. I'd appreciate any and all feedback, including suggestions for additions, modifications, possible factual errors, etc.

__________________________

Facts on Receiving St. Louis Digital/HD Stations

* There are two ways to receive local digital/HD broadcasts in the St. Louis area. The first, and by far simplest, is to subscribe to Charter Cable. Unfortunately, Charter doesn't currently provide all of the available St. Louis digital stations. To date, Charter is only offering KTVI-DT (FOX), KMOV-DT (CBS) and KSDK-DT (NBC).

Until Charter is able to deliver a complete line-up of local digital/HD stations (or if you've already selected satellite for your subscription television service), you'll need some sort of antenna -- either indoor, attic or roof mount.


* Forget most of what you know about receiving traditional analog television via an antenna, as digital broadcasting is for the most part a different animal.

The first and most important thing to know is that digital signals, once received, tend to be highly stable. The sort of artifacts that you may recall about pre-cable antenna reception of local stations isn't all that relevant to digital reception. In the digital realm, there's no visual equivalent to the analog artifacts known as "snow," or "ghosting."

And in most cases, a digital signal won't slowly fade in and out as was sometimes the case in fringe analog reception areas. For the most part, with digital broadcasts you either receive the signal and have a near-perfect picture and sound, or you won't get anything at all.

In addition, barring significant topographical or architectural obstacles between your location and the transmission towers, digital signals appear to be more robust in terms of distance they can travel without degradation. While it's the exception rather than the rule, there are instances where digital OTA signals have been received as far as 120 miles from the tower.

So, just because you may have had difficulty with OTA analog signals in the past at your location, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to receive digital OTA signals.


* All of the current St. Louis digital/HD stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF spectrum. The UHF channel assignments for local stations appears below:

26 - KPLR (WB)
31 - KDNL (ABC)
35 - KSDK (NBC)
39 - KECT (PBS)
43 - KTVI (FOX)
47 - WRBU (UPN)
56 - KMOV (CBS)

Today, all St. Louis stations are "simulcasting," with the traditional analog broadcasts via one transmission and the digital/HD broadcasts through another. For example, KMOV sends its analog broadcasts out as VHF channel 4 and then simulataneously sends its digital broadcasts as UHF channel 56.

As the transition to digital broadcasting progresses, there will come a time when the analog broadcasts will be discontinued and stations will only be transmitting digitally. While this switch from analog to digital was originally scheduled to take place in 2006, it's almost certain that the analog shutdown will be deferred for at least a few years.

But when that analog shutdown does occur, it's possible that one or more local stations will decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their longtime analog channel designations. For example, after shutting down its analog broadcasts, KMOV might move it's digital transmission to VHF channel 4.


* While the signals for digital/HD broadcasts are made up of binary data (zeros and ones), from a viewer perspective, there's nothing special about the antenna required to receive those broadcasts. As noted above, the actual transmission takes place over the UHF spectrum. That means that if you already have an old UHF-capable antenna on your rooftop or in your attic, there's a good chance that it will receive some, and possibly all, of the available local digital broadcasts. The only way to conclusively determine if that older antenna will carry you into the digital age is to test it.

However, it is possible that you might need to upgrade the cable run from an existing antenna to your distribution point(s), especially if the antenna uses the flimsy ribbon-type cable connection. If you need to replace the cable for an existing antenna, RG-6 quad-shield coax is recommended. A 1,000-foot roll of RG-6 quad coax can be purchased for around $75, though it is possible to buy smaller quantities at a higher per-foot cost.


* If you're starting from scratch and need to purchase an antenna, there is some merit in selecting a UHF-only antenna. While a combo VHF-UHF antenna would likely work in many situations, a UHF-only antenna will normally give better, more reliable results. If you do have an existing antenna and it isn't capable of pulling in all of the stations in the area, there's a good chance that swapping out for a UHF-only antenna would result in better reception.

Of course, the downside in opting for a UHF-only antenna is that if any of the local stations decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their old analog channel assignment, a VHF antenna might be required to continue receiving those stations.


* Without officially endorsing one antenna over another, here are some suggestions that should work for most viewers within a 45-mile radius of the transmission towers.

For outdoor or attic antennae, ChannelMaster sells at least two UHF-only models that you should consider -- the CM4221 (retail $25), which is a 4-bay rated for 45 miles, and the CM4228 (retail $50), which is an 8-bay rated for 60 miles. Winegard has the Prostar 1000 model PR-4400 rated for 45 miles, and the PR-8800 rated for 60 miles. Radio Shack also sells a UHF-only antenna (catalog # 15-2160, $30 retail) that is worth considering.

As a general suggestion, avoid antennas that appear to be working overtime to not look like an antenna. While it's true that traditional antennae are unattractive and a lot of people consider them to be eyesores to be avoided at all cost, the newer streamlined, aerodynamic antennae seem to compromise reception capability in exchange for a more friendly appearance.

For indoor antennas, there are many options here as well, but the current performance leader is the Zenith Silver Sensor (ZHDTV1), which is available at most local Best Buy stores at a cost of around $40. The excellent performance of the Silver Sensor is probably in part due to the fact that Zenith actually designed the technology responsible for the transmission of OTA digital/HD signals, known as 8VSB.

There's no reliable way to predict if an indoor antenna will work in your location, short of buying one and testing it.

__________________________

Doug, great summary, I'm sure you probably realize this, but there is no guarantee that down the road some of the UHF stations might switch back to VHF when/if analog goes away. If anybody is going to the trouble to do a tower, its probably worth it to seriously consider doing VHF at the same time. Besides, you could also use that same antenna for analog reception and possibly FM reception.

turls,

Great point, which I briefly thought about including, and then it got lost in the shuffle. I'll amend this to include that once I've got some other suggestions in hand.

Originally posted by oby
That is good news, and somewhat surprising. Charter seems to be lagging behind on so many other fronts, it unusual they would be the first Cable operator to carry this. Anyway, they know what we all want: espnhd, abc hd , cbs hd, discovery hd, and the list is growing (i.e., TNT hd).

What other fronts are you referring to? Can you be specific?

Originally posted by abcward
Any clue on WHEN we'll see ESPN-HD on our menu grid?

Once again, be patient. There isn't an employee that can tell you until the local launch date is official. It won't be long.

4113

Just a comment:

I have been browsing posts from the fall of 2003 through today.
I am blown away at the negative attitude that people have. I am convinced that this forum should be called the "Pessimist Forum".

I'll say it again...be patient. Charter has delivered HD services just as expected. Believe me, it is all in the works. HD or any other service is not on the back burner at Charter or any other cable/satellite provider, but many here believe that Charter is dragging its feet.

Let me share some examples:

Comment:
"Here's a Headline I'd Like to See: Charter Lives Up to Press Releases"
&
"it would seem to me that if they really are going to finally roll out HD in October that they should make a public announcement to that effect."
Fact:
Charter made a public announcement on May 29, 2002 (16 months earlier)that they would begin launching HD services. Seven days later, the first 5 markets begin installing HD services.


Comment:
"Hopefully Charter comes through this month... They have until the end of October with me.
Fact:
Launched on October 6th with the 6 channels expected


Comment:
"So let's see, Charter St. Louis is bout the last one of the top 30 markets to do HD, and they still give a box that doesn't have DVI enabled? I can understand no firewire, but no DVI?"
Fact:
DVI required a software update from Motorola. The software was downloaded to all HD stb's on January 12, 2003 as soon as it became available to Charter activating all DVI ports.


One more thing. Before a few people get down on Charter's DVR service...
Charter successfully lauched BMC-9012 in Rochester Minnesota in Q4 2003.
The BMC-9012 will be launching in St Louis this year. I can't be specific, but those who are interested will be satisfied soon enough.

There are many more posts like these...and I am not limiting my comments to these posts alone.

Anyway, there are many opinions people make that are unsubstantiated, but I guess thats what separates opinion from fact. Oh well, some people believe what they want...

Being in this business you realize that subscribers will not be happy unless they are getting everything for nothing.

Just my opinion, not of my employer.

Okay, I feel better now.

4113
:rolleyes:

Point / Counterpoint.

Charter may be trying to get their customers every single new channel and technology. That can be commended, however...

Charter does a HORRIBLE job communicating with their customers or anyone else for that matter. Their website is horribly inadequate - no real news/information, no pricing information, no way to actually be informed at all. Charter also NEVER replies to any email I have ever sent them. Not even an email stating "we're not sure, but we'll look into it". Not replying to emails is wrong...period. No grey area there.

And lastly, if we didnt have 4113 in this forum we would never know that Charter was working on anything new. They never relay any of that information, like for example, what Dish does with their Charlie Chats.

Yes, we customers may be apt to jumping to conclusions, but if no one ever talks to us, we have no facts to go by.

[note - I am a Charter HD customer for the last year or so. And with the latest developments of adding CBS, ESPN and DVR, I will be staying with Charter, so I am relatively happy with their service. Just unhappy with their lack of communication].

4113 - I've ebbed and flowed on Charter. What it comes down to is a solid roadmap and clear communication.

Randomly call CSRs and talk to them about some of these things. They will feed you a line based on the time of day. So - with that said, look at your examples and how they played with the St. Louis market.

Example: May 29, 2002 Charter released a press release stating they would begin HD services. Those of us in their PRIMARY and HOME market assumed that would be us. Cities were limited at the time. So we called. And called. And eventually got a clear, consistent message. By the end of the year. Guess what? 2003 came and no HD. So we called and called. And got a consistent message... by March... March 2003, no HD. Then summer... etc etc. Yes they delivered in October 2003. But this was roughly a YEAR after we were expecting to receiving it.

Example: Hopefully Charter comes through this month... guess if you say it for 16 months they will.

Example: DVI service. Has Charter ever communicated to its early adopters that DVI was activated? I honestly don't know if it has, but other than this forum, how would someone have found out? COMMUNICATION is key.

And with respect to DVR service... can I call Charter today and get it? Don't even need HD - just DVR like the rest of the major markets... Nope, can't have it. And when they launch their HD DVR - WHEN is still unannounced so I can't plan for it - it will have a 40GB HD, unless you are aware of something being upgraded outside of public knowledge.


Not trying to bash - just stating facts from someone outside the company. Charter Pipeline is a great service. Charter cable - I don't know. Had it for 2 years, ditched it. Brought it back last year, lasted 2 months. If you want the exact reasons why I can PM you. I keep trying and hoping that we get solid service for the cable TV, but so far I haven't seen it.

If you can communicate some of the outside perspective on the lack of roadmapping and communication to the high dollar high end users, that would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

Maybe this will help with those that think Charter works in a vacuum or does not inform the public of its intentions.

The following is a link to a publicly available conference call from February 19th, 2003 that has info regarding financial's, recent launches and other services to come. There is also a Q&A at the end that may interest some of you.

Participating on the call is Charter CEO Carl Vogel and others from the senior management team.

There are many other sources for information out there, including websites, trade magazines and press releases from vendors that Charter works with.

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=CHTR&script=2100

4113

Originally posted by BudShark
4113 - I've ebbed and flowed on Charter....

I can foresee this debate going on forever....

Telling CSR's specifics about new services before an official release is a double edge sword. When speculation/rumor gets in the mainstream, the call centers can be flooded with calls that interfere with other customer service related issues. Of course telling them can be an advantage, but if there are delays on a project, then you have unhappy customers.

Regarding the May 29th press release:
You stated that most of us ASSUMED. Theres the problem. You know the old saying...assume = ASS-U-ME. The press release clearly stated that the initial markets were Alhambra/Pasadena and Glendale/Burbank, Calif.; University Park/Highland Park, Texas; Miami Beach, Fla.; and Birmingham, Ala.

The March date for St Louis was a target, not an official announcement. Charter achieved its October date as officially announced. Anything else was speculation and optimism.

DVI? Point taken. I do not remember an official announcement. But I was happy to share it with the group as soon as I could.

DVR today? I agree. There was a time when you could'nt get HSD..right? People who want everything now are being unreasonable. There is so much more that happens behind the scene before a service can be launched. Many times it is the vendor and hardware availability. Motorola is the vendor in this market...if they don't have it, neither will St. Louis. The markets that you speak of, what kind of STB's are there? Sony, SA or Motorola?

Again, my opinion, not of my employer.

Maybe I should add that to my signature...

4113

4113,

I honestly don't believe that Charter has been unfairly treated in this forum. OK, I was definitely out of line a month or so ago when I called you guys "bandits," but apart from that, I think the feedback has been quite fair.

Maybe people are polite in their comments about Charter when they know you're an employee, but the majority of the comments I hear from friends, relatives and my own customers about Charter wouldn't make it past the language filters in place here at AVS.

I also don't think there's a much relevance in your CEO's previously recorded conference call to financial and stock market analysts. In case the point made by others here isn't clear, the requirement is RELEVANT and LOCAL, interactive communication -- not a pre-recorded, corporate dog-and-pony show.

If Charter is sincere about improving customer satisfaction and perceptions, I'd suggest you work to organize a monthly conference call hosted by the executive who carries the bottom-line responsibility for the financial results and subscriber numbers for the St. Louis market. Or set up an eMail address where we can communicate to that person and their staff directly -- and take the steps necessary to at least acknowledge that communication.

Charter might also consider online chats, which I believe could be arranged via AVS.

I'm sure you're sincere when you say you're "blown away" by what you've read here. But don't expect it to change, just because you don't agree with the perceptions -- they're real and they most certainly aren't going to change if they continue to go unaddressed.

I dropped Charter 2 years ago after what seemed like a random $15 hike in my monthly fee. Hell and No. Had Direct up and running within a week and never looked back. I remember when I first moved into my house and called Charter to get cable hooked up, they couldn't tell me if I was in their service area. What? My neighbors had Charter, the house already had a RG6 cable hanging out of the floor in the family room (and there was no dish installed at that time, it was a Charter line), but the CSR couldn't tell me if I was in their coverage area. Hell, the manager couldn't even tell me. It took them a week to figure things out. They kept telling me that they weren't sure if it was them or AT&T (???) that serviced my location. What really got me was that random price hike though. Got the same programming from Direct for about $20 less a month back then. Whatever...

My personal problem with charter began with my switching to charter. When I called to set it up, I had just purchased my HD monitor in August 2001. The CSR told me that charter currently had HD and it was only passed through on the locals. I asked if I needed a special box, and he said yes. What I recieved was the S-Video box.

For the year I was required to stay with charter for the "Dish Buy Back" program. During that year, I had no less than 18 service interruptions. Including, during the game 7 of the stanley cup finals, the TV would turn itself off randomly.After 3 calls to charter, the problem was never resolved. The final fix was to unplug the TV from the Box (which I would have never done, but the installer did do). None of the Tech support people even considered this could be the culprit. They told me it was the remote, which I didn't have batteries in.

Everytime I called, I asked to be put on a list to be notified when there was HD service. The next time I called, they had no idea what I was talking about and allegedly put a note in my account. I have had nothing but problems with charter, but for the most part, I try to keep my mouth shut because it was a personal experience, and other people in the area haven't had any trouble.

Most of the people on this forum are enthusiasts and early adopters. This being the case we are very good at troubleshooting. And we put up with some substandard service because we are on the bleeding edge. Many of the posts you have quoted could be based on extreme frustration at the time of the post.

Point being, charter has a checkered track record with me based on CSRs and Tech support. That's my experience. However, I did suggest my inlaws, who just purchased a new HD set, should get charter as it is cheaper up front than sattelite and it seems there is finally someone to give out info on the goings on at charter, no matter how cryptic. I appreciate your enthusiasm for your employer, but we haven't all had the good experience you have had.
Thanks for your input and enthusiasm,
Dug

Dish Network will now set up new accounts (including an 811 receiver for HD) for $49.99 or less.

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Dish Network will now set up new accounts (including an 811 receiver for HD) for $49.99 or less.

I have five TVs in my house with one being HD. Can I get all of them hooked up for $49.99? Charter has that big advantage of basic cable without a STB which is fine for most TVs in a house. I used to have satellite for two adult TVs only. My kids want more than OTA basics now and I don't want to pay for five STBs even if Dish could do that.

Dish should offer a HD and premium channel only package at a discount and I could keep my basic cable for my kid's rooms. There is room for multiple providers with the proper pricing. It will never happen because the providers are not willing to share a customer....they are near sighted in my opinion. Satellite should specialize in premium and not worry about local.

I'm not 100% sure of the specifics but I believe Dish now has a model 322 available, which has two outputs (one of which is intended for s different room and can run a different channel than the first output), and two remote controls (one of which is UHF so can control the second output from that second room. And counts as one receiver.

One thing I do NOT know is if that receiver needs two inputs in order to do this. If it can do that with one input from the dish, that would solve both the "don't want a box in every room" issue and the "want more than 4 TV's on the dish" issue.

Long time reader, first time poster from St. Peters. I currently have a Mits 65-511 and am receiving OTA signals through a outdoor Radio Shack antenna in my attic. I pick up all local digital stations but have consistently been having problems with significant artifacts and also sound dropouts when played through my Yamaha receiver. Oddly I do not notice the dropouts when listening through the TV speakers. Although I am able to pick up all the stations, the artifacts and dropouts are really distrupting my enjoyment of HDTV. Any suggestions or is anyone else have these problems? I am located at Mid Rivers and Willot. I am going to pick up the Zenith Indoor antenna recommended earlier tonight and see if it will make a difference.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Bob,

It's difficult to say what your problem might be. What sort of OTA receiver are you using? Are you sending analog audio to the TV? What sort of audio connection are you using for the Yamaha?

I'm somewhat doubtful that switching your reception from an attic antenna to the Silver Sensor is going to be the solution to your problem, but you won't really know until you try. Have you tried repositioning your RS antenna while someone monitors whether there's improvement in reception or signal quality? I think there's probably more scope for improvement through that sort of tweaking.

If you haven't already grabbed them, there's a couple of maps on the first page of this thread that might help you get a better idea for where the individual transmission towers are located for each station. The maps might also help you determine if there are any obstacles (natural or man-made) between you and the towers you need to aim for.

Doug,

I have a built in OTA receiver in the tv (MITS 65-511). Problem is that I can not tell what my signal strength is because the MITS does not show. (Unless I am missing something?)

I have tried repositioning with little success. I am wondering if I am getting interference from something in the house. I was going to give the Zenith a try since it is UHF only and my current attenna is VHF/UHF so that I can receive local channels throughout the rest of the house.

I mainly want to ensure that I do not have a problem with the TV and this is just something that happens to some folks due to the terrain or other causes. I though I read that once you were able to receive the digital signals you should not have a quality problem. I have on occasion received the signal perfect but still seem to always have a problem with the audio dropouts.

For reference, I have a Monster digital coaxial cable from my TV digial out to my receiver digital in. Thanks,

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
I'm not 100% sure of the specifics but I believe Dish now has a model 322 available, which has two outputs (one of which is intended for s different room and can run a different channel than the first output), and two remote controls (one of which is UHF so can control the second output from that second room. And counts as one receiver.

One thing I do NOT know is if that receiver needs two inputs in order to do this. If it can do that with one input from the dish, that would solve both the "don't want a box in every room" issue and the "want more than 4 TV's on the dish" issue.

I have an 811, 322, and a 508 on order. The 322 is a great box - BUT - until a new device is released (due March) it requires 3 cables. 2 inputs, and the one output. If you don't put it in the basement or somewhere else that you can freely run cable you're likely to have cable running up and down exterior walls.

However - the 322 is a champ of a receiver. I foresee a day when there is a 344 or such sitting in a basement feeding the whole house. Anyhow, yes they charge you only 1 receiver fee for it.

The $49 promo is for up to 4 TVs. 1 811, 1 322, 1 311 if you are lease - 1 811, 3 311s if you are purchase.

4113 - To echo what was said by Bester - I am not anti-Charter. I have recommended Charter's HD service to no less than 5 people since it launched. For the most part they are happy with the service.

Chris

Bob,

I'm not intimate with the OTA receivers built into the Mits sets, but I think I've read elsewhere that there is no signal meter.

When you've tried repositioning the existing antenna, are you able to find a position that improves those channels that are causing you problems? If that's the case, it might be worth considering a second (UHF) antenna to address those stations separately and then combining them into one coaxial run. I'm not an expert on how to do that, though I have seen it implemented before with success. I think you could search for the OTA forum here (not just St. Louis) for additional info on that.

Based on your situation, the SS is definitely worth a try. Hopefully it will prove to be the solution.

I'm not intimately familiar with your location and your line-of-sight situation to the tower clusters here, but I would have thought that there wouldn't be anything major causing interference with the signals.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but let us know how it goes with the SS and any other info that might help us troubleshoot your problem.

Originally posted by RACJ
I pick up all local digital stations but have consistently been having problems with significant artifacts and also sound dropouts when played through my Yamaha receiver.
There is a possibility that these drop-outs are not caused by weak signal strength but some other gremlin. Assuming the drop-outs occur on DT-31, check what sort of signal strength you're getting on analog 30. If it's got no more than slight snow, with no ghosting, then you may be able to assume that the problem is elsewhere.

back to the charter issue,

Unless I missed it somewhere, no one stated my problem with Charter's HD service- availability. I would definitely consider switching to back to charter, but as of yet I can't get Pipeline or HD in my area (Jefferson County). I know there are several areas in the city that are also unable to get Charter HD. Until Charter has all the locals and covers the entire STL market, Satellite makes better sense for some of us.

I'm happy that Charter is making strides, but they still have a long way to go.

BradZ, I am in the same boat as you, still waiting for the upgrade. I am still on the fence about getting dish HD. For what I pay Charter every month I can have Dish, the HD package HBO with more channels and another premium movie channel. The last answer I received about the upgrade is that it will be in the coming by summer. That just may be too far away for me to keep Charter.

wilkemp-

I've got direcTV and have no complaints whatsoever. I never lose service for no apparent reason- a very common occurence when I had cable. I have a direcTivo on my family room set and an HD box on my HT. Yeah, the antenna was a hassle to deal with, but it only took a couple of trips to the roof and now I get all the local HD channels free of charge. I would say don't wait. Dish has a great deal for new members- you'll be in HD heaven.

good luck.

Originally posted by RACJ
Long time reader, first time poster from St. Peters. I currently have a Mits 65-511 and am receiving OTA signals through a outdoor Radio Shack antenna in my attic. I pick up all local digital stations but have consistently been having problems with significant artifacts and also sound dropouts when played through my Yamaha receiver. Oddly I do not notice the dropouts when listening through the TV speakers. Although I am able to pick up all the stations, the artifacts and dropouts are really distrupting my enjoyment of HDTV. Any suggestions or is anyone else have these problems? I am located at Mid Rivers and Willot. I am going to pick up the Zenith Indoor antenna recommended earlier tonight and see if it will make a difference.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I too have the Mits 65-511 and a Sony reciever. I experience random drops in 5.1 sound in Fenton as well. I seem to have the same problem when using the HD charter box too. Which made me think it was more on the stations side. Seems like it is getting better as the stations work out the bugs.

I believe there is a signal meter on the diagnostic menu. I went in there once and got right back out. It is not GUI driven and did not have the detailed info on where it was.

I will pay more attention the next time it happens and switch back and forth just to make sure it is happening to both sources since you brought it up.

Scott

I'll try to fit this in edgewise between the Charter debate--I've been a paying subscriber to cable for less than 2 years of my life, and it isn't even available to me now--but it is pretty simple in my book. There has never been a good explanation of why it took so long for Charter to deliver HD in the St. Louis market. Of course people are going to get upset and bash.

KPLR-DT showed Blues Hockey in 4x3 yesterday, I don't know if they do that all the time or not, but this is the only time recently I've noticed KPLR-DT in 4x3. Wonder if they get as many complaints as KSDK supposedly is getting?

BradZ, I think you may be right, I had Directv in my previous apartment and was very satisfied PQ on my HD set was far better than Charters and I didn't have to call to get pay per view I could order with the remote something I cannot do with my current Charter service.

Maybe this was one of the "concessions" in the A-Rod trade... ;)
______________________________________________

Cablevision Adds New York's WNBC and Bravo HD+
to Its Expansive High-Definition Programming Slate

iO Digital Cable Customers Now Have Access To Thirteen Channels In High-Definition, Including Popular Local Broadcast Stations, Sports And Movie Networks

BETHPAGE, N.Y., Feb. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Cablevision Systems Corporation (NYSE: CVC - News) today announced the addition of WNBC New York and Bravo HD+ to its expansive high-definition programming slate, which is available to iO: Interactive Optimum® digital cable customers at no additional cost.

iO customers now have access to 13 channels in high-definition, including WCBS-TV New York, Thirteen HD (PBS), WNYW-5 (FOX), MSG Network, Fox Sports Net New York, HBO, SHOWTIME, Cinemax HD, STARZ! HD, The Movie Channel HD, iN DEMAND'S INHD and the industry's only high-definition video on demand offering, featuring new release movies and unique titles originally seen in IMAX® theaters.
______________________________________________

Full story: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040223/nym190_1.html

I have been a DirecTV subscriber since 1996 and switched from Charter's broadband to DSL back when it was only one-way (uplink required analog modem). Until recently, I haven't considered going back to cable, but now it is starting to cross my mind. Why? I am moving from Ballwin to St. Charles in a few months, and 1) worries about OTA signal being further out, 2) questions about DSL and telephone service from Centurytel, 3) providing SD analog service to multiple rooms without additional STB's, and 4) paying $10/mo for an HD DVR vs. $1000 up front for HD Tivo.

If Charter gets ABC signed on and has the DVR out before I move, I will strongly consider switching to their voice, internet, and HD services if the package price is cheaper than the alternatives.

Mike

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Maybe this was one of the "concessions" in the A-Rod trade... ;)
______________________________________________

[b]Cablevision Adds New York's WNBC and Bravo HD+
to Its Expansive High-Definition Programming Slate

iO Digital Cable Customers Now Have Access To Thirteen Channels In High-Definition, Including Popular Local Broadcast Stations, Sports And Movie Networks

BETHPAGE, N.Y., Feb. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Cablevision Systems Corporation (NYSE: CVC - News) today announced the addition of WNBC New York and Bravo HD+ to its expansive high-definition programming slate, which is available to iO: Interactive Optimum® digital cable customers at no additional cost.


Why can't Charter be more like Cablevison Systems?

Originally posted by redwine
I have five TVs in my house with one being HD. Can I get all of them hooked up for $49.99? Charter has that big advantage of basic cable without a STB which is fine for most TVs in a house.

Red,

I am not a CSR, but I checked with someone for you...

$49.99/month
Rolls up to 65.99 after 3 months if you keep all premiums & digital
or stay at $49.99/month if you just keep SHO/TMC & digital.

Your four extra sets are free (84 analog channels, no equipment charges like satellite)

Free install (up to four TV's)
No contracts
30 Day money back guarantee
On time Guarantee

Includes:
84 analog channels
75 digital channels w/all premiums
45 digital music channels
Free SVOD
8 I-TV Channels
VOD
53 PPV channels (most movies $3.99 each)

Add $3.00/month for HD tier
FOX-DT
KMOV-DT
KSDK-DT
HBO-HD
SHO-HD

Add $3.99/month for HDNET Tier
HDNET
HDNET Movies

When you look at different services, you have to look at the value. I see 166 video channels and that does not include all the content in VOD, SVOD and PPV. VOD/SVOD is an unbelievable value. Take HBO SVOD for example...Sopranos fan? You get every episode from the 4th seanon FREE, when you want to see it. SVOD users love this service. You will also have access to I-TV (March 16th in all areas).

Most people are not smart shoppers. They fall for advertising and hype. They also don't pay attention to the contracts and fees. I would put this package up against any Value Pack or Total Choice package any day.

The debate will go on for a long time because you can never compare apples to apples between television services...

BTW...You can also get HSD 2MB for 21.95/month, rolls up to 42.95 after three months.

***EDIT***
You can also bundle both the above video package and HSD for $79.99/month with free installation.
**********

There are other packages...even for existing customers. I suggest that you call and check it out.

4113

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 4113
[B]Red,

I am not a CSR, but I checked with someone for you...

$49.99/month
Rolls up to 65.99 after 3 months if you keep all premiums & digital
or stay at $49.99/month if you just keep SHO/TMC & digital.

yada yada yada...
________________________________________________________

4113.....I had Direct TV (1996) and DSL from SBC (2000) when I lived in Jefferson County. I moved to Dardenne Prairie (basically O'fallon MO) in April last year. I have everything Charter offers....phone....digital cable with all the premiums (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Movie Channel).....HD locals with HDnet .... two STB rentals...pipeline with 2 Meg download. The only thing I am not paying for is Playboy monthly which Charter just recently offered. I am considering it (especially if it was in HD :) ). On-demand is very nice especially if you subscribe to the premium services. I hope it stays "no charge" if you subscribe to the premiums but my bill shows a category for this which is currently $0. This tells me there could be a charge in the future. I pay Charter a very LARGE bill every month and am satisfied mostly.

I only have two complaints. Charter's phone service is not quite prime time in terms of service and availability but it is getting there. Number two complaint is HD. I want more and am willing to pay. I recently forked out mega bucks for very nice HD video and sound and I love it. I want more and am hoping Charter can deliver but also see satellite as a viable alternative to feed my HD hunger. It seems Cablevision Systems are satisfying that hunger in NY and wonder why Charter can't do the same here.

Charter needs to offer HD pay per view and On-demand HD along with completing the premium channel offerings of Starz HD, Cinemax HD, and any others I left off. I believe folks who buy HD sets at high prices are willing to pay for GOOD HD programming (premium movies and sports) once they see the quality that can; for the first time in history, be displayed in their living rooms.

I wonder if anyone else would find it valuable to have a monthly "sticky" post here about current "best available" deals on Charter, DISH, DirecTV and VOOM subcription fees?

While taking this beyond HD pricing would definitely take us off-topic, I think it could still be useful, particularly as HD programming is ultimately bound up with the overall packages offered by the different distributors.

Personally, I find that it is very difficult to figure out at any point in time whether I'm paying too much for what I'm receiving. While my experiences in talking with DirecTV representatives have been pretty positive, I find getting to the bottom of things with Charter CSRs is difficult and frustrating. I think that might be due in part to the fact that DirecTV has a fewer options and therefore less complexity. But I also think there's better training and greater consistency from DirecTV CSRs.

Anyway, if a monthly update like this is going to work, we'd probably need FOUR volunteers, one for each service, who would be prepared to regularly monitor, collect tips from other forum members and then update the monthly pricing updates.

Good idea/bad idea? Any volunteers?

I would love to have that information readily available for me, especially since I am moving to a new apartment in May.

sounds like a great idea Doug - far too many deals are not widely known and everyone here [i assume] would love to save a dime or two...

I am extremely satisfied with Charter's HD picture quality--its stunning. The network HD feeds are much better than I (tried) to get with OTA. OTA was a disaster for me. Although, I never got past the Silver Sensor, and probably could have done better with a roof antenna.

I agree with everyone else that Charter should do more to keep us informed. For example, why can't they tell us: 1. when will discovery HD be added in St. Louis--and why do some cities have it and some don't?;

2. When will espn HD be added--I know the contract has been signed, but WHEN will we see it? Is that such a difficult question???????

Right now I can give a pretty good analysis of DishNetwork promotions - so I can volunteer to monitor it for the time being.

*** You can find vendors offerring better deals than the following: call around ***

Dishnetwork Rental (all pricing includes equipment and local channels)
*This is your 'cable' TV comparison.
$49.99 activation ($49.99 credit on first bill)
No Commitment
$29.99/mo for Top 60 w/locals - 1st (possibly 2nd) TV included.
$5 per TV up to a total of 4 (depending on configuration - if you use the new 522 or 322 receivers they only count as 1 receiver but service 2 TVs... so in the case of (2) 322 receivers your charge for 4 TVs on Top 60 would be $34.99 - can't beat that on cable!
Free PVR for up to 2 TVs (one unit w/separate outputs and remotes) - $4.98/mo
Highest cost is 87.99 for Everything pack (HBO, SHO, etc) on 4 TVs.
**HD upgrade is free for 1 TV. HD Cost is 9.99/mo for ESPNHD, Discovery HD, HDNet, HDNet movies. HD PPV available.


Purchase options:
This gets more difficult with purchase options. Suffice it to say you should expect the following:
***Average of 2 free receivers with credits (usually requires 8-12 month commitment)
HD upgrade is $99 for new customers.
DVR upgrade is $199 for new customers.
Cost is $29.99/mo for Top 60 w/locals.
$4.99 each additional TV over 1 (no option for 322 or 522)
Value packs available.

Check Dish's website for montly programming options and costs. I'd recommend for purchase that you do NOT go through Dish due to better deals out there. What was listed above is Dish's prices (better ones can be had).

General comment: It appears that Dish is pushing towards lease options - with independent retailers offering purchase. I am on a lease option - and now with no commitment there isn't a strong reason to not go that route. Lease is somewhat restrictive right now in the sense that it is difficult to get 2 811s or the like.

Hopefully this was more helpful than confusing...

Chris

Budshark, extremely helpful, might I asked whom did you go thru to get your system?

The following is a very brief news summary excerpt from today's MarketClose report from Media Business Corp:

"...Starz Encore Group said the flagship St. Louis Charter system launched Starz On Demand via its digital cable service..."

Cinemax has a HD channel, dont they? Wonder if/when Charter will pony up for that...

Do you think we should also start a list of bars/restaurants in the St. Louis area that have HDTV (and know how to use it)?

The On-Demand service is where cable can really differentiate itself. Hopefully it can make money with programming other than porn. Hopefully it will soon offer some HD capabilities here in St. Louis.

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
The following is a very brief news summary excerpt from today's MarketClose report from Media Business Corp:

"...Starz Encore Group said the flagship St. Louis Charter system launched Starz On Demand via its digital cable service..."


Full Press release from Starz:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=238613&TICK=NCOR&STORY=/www/story/02-24-2004/0002115439&EDATE=Feb+24,+2004

Originally posted by redwine
The On-Demand service is where cable can really differentiate itself. Hopefully it can make money with programming other than porn. Hopefully it will soon offer some HD capabilities here in St. Louis.

The selection of Adult channels is so small compared to other programming available, but it typically makes up over 70% of purchases through PPV & VOD.

Originally posted by 4113
Full Press release from Starz:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=238613&TICK=NCOR&STORY=/www/story/02-24-2004/0002115439&EDATE=Feb+24,+2004

Starz is the largest provider of premium movie services in the United
States with approximately 144 million pay units. Starz offerings include the
Starz Super Pak(R), with up to 13 digital movie channels and more than 750
movies per month, Starz On Demand(R), the only on-demand pay TV subscription
service available on cable, satellite, and broadband platforms, and a suite of
advanced video offerings, including STARZ! HD(SM), STARZ! Hi Res(SM), and
Starz On Demand HD(SM). Starz is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Liberty Media
Corporation (NYSE: L, LMCb), http://www.starz.com.



When can we get Starz HD and Starz On Demand HD in St. Louis?

This is the St. Louis HDTV forum...these are relevant topics.

Chris: Thanks for the great info on DISH.

To everyone else: If there's interest in this and we can get volunteers for the other three providers by the beginning of March, we'll try to get this info pulled together and organized at the top of the March thead.

If anyone would prefer to take on ongoing responsibility for one of these services and remain anonymous, you can always send me your info or new discoveries via Private Message and I can present the info on the forum.

starz on demand has been available for awhile. Turn to the Charter on Demand Channel, and you get "on demand" movies, specials, and series from Hbo, Cinemax, Starz, and Showtime. If you subscribe to these movie packages, all of their on demand movies are free (including their "late night" movies and series) and you get to watch them whenever you want, and pause, rewind, stop, etc.

Can the Charter Insider answer these questions:

1. When will discovery hd be available, and why do some cities have it, and St. Louis does not.

2. When will espn hd be turned on.

Thanks.

I got my Dish equipment directly through Dish.

In the past I went through AllSat.com. There are several reputable companies out there. I know there was someone on here a month ago that was a local Dish Dealer - he might be able to get some better purchase deals.

A couple of the online sites are offering 29.99 or 39.99 activation for the lease option - coupled with the 49.99 credit you get some money back when you sign up.

I just checked AllSat. They are even better than I mentioned before. They have a lease option for 2 HDs and 2 DVRs for FREE (no upgrade cost) - no commitment either. They have similar purchase options (1 HD, 2 standard receivers) for free - but it requires a 2 year commitment. 1 HD and 1 standard receiver is a 1 year commitment (I'd recommend this route and than go buy the 301 for $99 unless you know you'll keep it for 2 years.)

Here is the link to their HD lease packages: http://www.allsat.com/hardware/811s.shtml

Chris

I currently have HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime with Charter - That means that I can get these channels' On Demand service for free?

[you learn something every day]


* Pleau Must Go *

Originally posted by oby
starz on demand has been available for awhile. Turn to the Charter on Demand Channel, and you get "on demand" movies, specials, and series from Hbo, Cinemax, Starz, and Showtime. If you subscribe to these movie packages, all of their on demand movies are free (including their "late night" movies and series) and you get to watch them whenever you want, and pause, rewind, stop, etc.

Can the Charter Insider answer these questions:

1. When will discovery hd be available, and why do some cities have it, and St. Louis does not.

2. When will espn hd be turned on.

Thanks.

Another reason I'm frustrated with Charter. As late as December we were told to get the On-Demand features we had to pay $3 above the HBO price. So they either changed it, or they didn't know what they were talking about and just didn't activate it.

Chris

I emailed nhl.com 2 weeks ago to verify that even though 2 of the games that being broadcast on HDNet conflicted with the scheduled TV of FSMW, they would still be aired on HDNet. This is the response I received today:

Thanks for writing. The HDNet games are non-exclusive national telecasts, meaning that they are blacked out in the local market of the teams playing in the matchup. As you may already know, most major professional sports leagues, including the NHL, grant certain local territorial rights to each of their clubs so that each club can generate local television revenue and develop a solid fan base. The territorial rights include the right to distribute local games on television inside the club's territory. Generally speaking, when a local telecaster buys the exclusive telecast rights from a team, that package of rights includes both SD and HD games. The NHL blacks out the HDNet broadcast of the game to protect the rights the local telecaster has purchased. We have to do this even if the telecaster is only showing games in SD. Of course, some local telecasters are already showing games in HD and many others are in the process of making HD games available.

I've been waiting to reply to you to confirm if we have blackout lifts for the games you mentioned. We have a blackout lift in St. Louis for the March 2 game since it is not being televised locally, so you will see that game. The other two games will be blacked out in St. Louis because they are being televised locally. Of course, in St. Louis you will still get every other HDNet game that does not involve the Blues. The good news is that more and more local and national telecasters are starting to do games in HD and, with the excitement about it, the number of HD games available to you should only increase over time.

I hope that helps somewhat. Thanks -- Bridget

So much for the 3 HD parties I was going to have:mad:

argh, thats awful news. I too have been patiently waiting until March for the first Blues games in HD. Now we only get 1 instead of 3??

Any chance that Fox Sports Midwest will be heading to HD in the next year or two??

[maybe its good news though since the Blues are circling the drain - Pleau Must Go!]

I've sent a reply to ask if the Blues could ask to have to blackout lifted. If so, I will be starting a petition or something.

I would think a good litmus test would be if they have bothered to get themselves listed on HDNet's web site as a site for HDNet.

http://www.hd.net/sportsbars.html

Originally posted by Dave Beebe
Do you think we should also start a list of bars/restaurants in the St. Louis area that have HDTV (and know how to use it)?

Originally posted by oby
starz on demand has been available for awhile. Turn to the Charter on Demand Channel, and you get "on demand" movies, specials, and series from Hbo, Cinemax, Starz, and Showtime. If you subscribe to these movie packages, all of their on demand movies are free (including their "late night" movies and series) and you get to watch them whenever you want, and pause, rewind, stop, etc.


I just checked this out tonight for the first time. I never even looked at this feature before because I saw no need to rack up any additional fees. I subscribe to Showtime, HBO and Cinemax. I look at the On Demand for these three channels and was able to get into each of them and get movies 'on demand'. There was never any mention of an additional fee, so I assume that these channels are free since I am a subscriber to this channels.....right? I would hate to see additional charges on my bill next month because I was confused about this service.

Originally posted by abcward
I just checked this out tonight for the first time. I never even looked at this feature before because I saw no need to rack up any additional fees. I subscribe to Showtime, HBO and Cinemax. I look at the On Demand for these three channels and was able to get into each of them and get movies 'on demand'. There was never any mention of an additional fee, so I assume that these channels are free since I am a subscriber to this channels.....right? I would hate to see additional charges on my bill next month because I was confused about this service.

So far if you subscribe you get-em free. There is some good old George Carlin stuff on HBO on-demand. This service with HD would probably take up too much bandwidth ??? This is my wish for the future along with offering thousands of movies.

wow, this is a feature that was vastly under utilized in my house - ill be using it now! Thanks for the info

The last two days my wife has reported that ABC was off-air during the day - but in the evening it is back. She has verified with both the 811 and Hitachi...anyone else see this?

Jim - are you working on the 5.1 or anything else during the day?

Thanks,
Chris

Hi all,

I just purchased a kdp-57ws550 and will be signing up for HD services with charter. I have a couple quick questions that some of you charter veterans maybe able to answer.

1. Currently I have a motorola cable box (not sure which model number) and i'm subscribed to all the charter services, except hd. When i subscribe to HD will i get a new cable box?

2. One thing that annoys me is all the ads in the on screen channel guide. When i sign up for HD and if i get a new cable box will the on screen guide still be plauged with these annoying ads?

3. Currently I only have a 20" tv that i use to watch tv on and the on screen guide only displays 1 30 minute timeslot. This is a bit annoying. When i get my new tv will i be able to see more than just 1 30 minute timeslot at once? Or is the limitation part of charter and nothing to do with the size of my tv?

Thanks for your guys' help.

I'm fairly far off topic here (again), but thought it worth sharing the following anecdote.

I've recently been doing some informal consulting work for a local business here and one of the things we've discussed is current advertising activities and how those might be reworked.

In the course of doing some research in this area, I thought I'd call around to the local TV stations to get an idea for advertising rates. I also thought this would be a good opportunity to gauge the possibilities for local HD advertising. Naturally I aggressively ratcheted down my expecatations in view of how little national HD advertising is done. But I thought it worth asking the HD questions as long as I had the ad sales execs on the phone, if only to get an idea when local HD advertising might be an option.

I don't feel comfortable pointing fingers at specific stations, so I'm not identifying where any of the specific comments below originated.

Still, the findings were interesting, if not in some cases startling:

* None of the stations are in a position to insert local HD advertising, either as part of their overall local feed or separately into their HD feed. No real surprise there, but also none of the sales execs was able to find out when local HD advertising might be feasible.

* One station suggested that we could produce our advertisement in normal Beta format and they could "run it through a machine" that would make it into HD. My immediate thought in hearing about this option is that I hope that someone has contacted Scientific American with this news.

FWIW, this comes from one of the stations using a 14x9 format for "upconverted" programming. The fact that my miraculously HD-transformed advertisement would be missing the top and bottom 10% wasn't mentioned.

* After investigating some of my questions, one of the ad executives came back to tell me that no one at the station could determine whether or not their own entry in the two-horse, late-night talk show sweepstakes was presented in HD. Maybe I've got the early adopter disease here, but I do think that speaks volumes for the mindset of local broadcasters about HDTV.

* After checking internally, one of the sales execs at one of the MAJOR network affilliates claimed there are fewer than 1,500 HD viewers in the St. Louis area.

I have been a Dish customer since I moved into my house. I have been very happy with Dish (and especially my 2 Dishplayers)

I never watch "Live" TV and cannot fathom going back to VCR's. I also cannot imagine paying TIVO $12/mo (is that per TIVO Box?) for what they offer in conjuction with cable.

I have been able to live with some Rain fade and the occasional lockup of my dishplayers, but it never fails that when I go out of town (currently in LA) the Dishplayers act up. Last night my wife missed West Wing and American Idol (as a Republican I would rather she not watch West Wing, but what can you do..., don't even get me started on AI)

Now I have to go off in search of these programs to appease her.

In addition she really wants to drop the dish. I try to explain that cable has its flaws, but she won't listen. So now I have to entertain switching.

On the plus side she recently won a 40hour TIVO box with 6 free months of service.

Is there any indications when the Charter DVR will be released? (1 month/2months/longer) If you can't give specifics can you at least give a ballpark. Also, you mention the HD DVR, but what about SDTV DVR's? Will they be available as well? Any indications of Dual Tuner equipment?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

hmm... I just saw a tv commercial for Voom. It stated that you can get voom now for NO UPFRONT COSTS. I'm gonna call them now and inquire about this deal.

Has anyone here have Voom yet? I think the only worry I have is about SD content. I want more HD channels, but I still want all of my other SD content as well....

I'll post what information I get after I talk with them.

Please excuse the interruption from someone who’s not actually in St. Louis. I’m working with Dish Network and the 921 software development team trying to determine why various stations around the country are causing the Dish 921 problems. One of these stations is KRCG in Jefferson City.

Does anyone participating in this thread have an HD PC recording card (MyHD, Hipix, AccessDTV, etc) available that would be willing to send me a 1 or 2 minute recording from KRCG? I will then send the recording on to Dish Network where they will analyze the transport stream to determine what is different about KRCG’s signal from most of the rest of the country. I have an FTP site set up to receive the recorded transport stream file(s).

If you can help me out, please PM me here, or send me an email at markdl@dbstalk.com Thanks in advance for the help!

Well, here's the followup email I received:

A blackout will not be lifted (on Center Ice or HDNet) if a local telecaster (such as Fox or KPLR) is showing the game. We need the permission of the team and its rightsholder, and only games that are not being televised in the local market are lifted. Fox is not showing the Blues game on March 2, so we have a blackout lift for that game, but Fox is televising the other games, so there is no blackout lift. Fox has the exclusive rights to show those games in the Blues' television territory, and even though there are a relatively small number of HD customers at this point, the rights are still exclusive to Fox. Thanks -- Bridget


I guess I'll see what FOX has to say, although I doubt they will be willing to let people watch the game on another channel and mix out on advertising.

So what's the latest on the 811 dish player?

After being on the Dish "waiting list" to receive an 811 to replace my ailing Dish Player 500 for over a month now, I have since not received any callbacks regarding a proposed intallation day. And though the corporate headquarters left a message on my machine over a month ago, all of my calls to that rep have simply gone to her voicemail. And surprise, surprise, I have not received a return call to any of my messages left.

Meanwhile, I've read in different 811-based threads that NEW customers are getting 811's installed within a week (though not necessarily in St. Louis)!

I realize that Dish stands to make more money from a new customer installation than a long-standing customer who only nets them an extra $10.00 a month for the HD programming, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it!

So has anyone in the St. Louis area received an 811 from Dish? It is true you can buy the 811 for $400.00 from at least one local dealer, but I prefer to pursue the $200.00 deal through Dish instead (duh!).

I received an 811 from Dish within 2 days of them being launched. (Wish I had a 921... :) )

Yes - it is likely that local dealers have them in stock.

Dish has also begun increasing supplies and reportedly made a line change on the 811 to fix some issues, so supplies should be increasing.

Chris

P.S. I can't receive Jefferson City, so I can't help Mark...

Thanks BudShark.

OFF TOPIC

I have been reading this forum for a long time.

This is regretably my first post, but I suddenly have found myself with extra time on my hands. I just wanted to let you all know that tons of people are being layed off locally at Charter. It began yesterday and will probably continue through the end of the week. The layoffs are effecting many aspects of the business from customer service, technical, back office and more. I was told that my position as a System Technician was "eliminated".

4113, do you work for Charter? What is your status? Are there any others in this forum? Visit cableworker.com. Sorry to waste a post on your board. Just trying to find others. Sorry to interrupt.

BW

BW,

Off topic? Perhaps, but nonetheless that's interesting news for us here.

I hope that you'll use at least some of that unwelcome free time to chime in on some of the comments, questions and observations from other participants about Charter services, at least where they're relevant to your experience and/or comfort level.

Of course, I'm sorry to hear about your job loss and hope that you'll find something even better in short order. In the meantime, pull up a chair and get comfortable.

Yes, we are working on the transmitter during the day. We no longer have a back-up transmitter, so we have been forced to sign off to do some of the work. At this time we are just updating some of the transmitter equipment to allow a higher power level. The 5.1 equipment has not arrived yet. The plan is for the work to be finished tonight.
Jim

The following is from the TV Predictions web site:

HDTV: Cable or Satellite?

DIRECTV and Echostar may be losing new high-def owners to cable TV -- and for good reason.

By Phillip Swann

Washington, DC (Feb. 26) -- You just purchased an expensive new High-Definition TV. Should you subscribe to cable TV or buy a satellite dish? Which one offers the best high-def lineup?

The answer used to be satellite. From 2000 to 2003, both DIRECTV and Echostar offered more high-def channels than its cable counterparts. However, in the last year, the cable TV industry has raced ahead and is now the clear leader in providing HDTV programming.

Full article available at: http://www.tvpredictions.com/hdtv022604.html

Originally posted by Dyaus
Hi all,

I just purchased a kdp-57ws550 and will be signing up for HD services with charter. I have a couple quick questions that some of you charter veterans maybe able to answer.

1. Currently I have a motorola cable box (not sure which model number) and i'm subscribed to all the charter services, except hd. When i subscribe to HD will i get a new cable box?

If I am wrong someone please correct me because I am not sure what a kdp-57ws550 is. Yes you will get a new box.

_________________________________________________________

2. One thing that annoys me is all the ads in the on screen channel guide. When i sign up for HD and if i get a new cable box will the on screen guide still be plauged with these annoying ads?

Yes you will still get those annoying ads.

_________________________________________________________

3. Currently I only have a 20" tv that i use to watch tv on and the on screen guide only displays 1 30 minute timeslot. This is a bit annoying. When i get my new tv will i be able to see more than just 1 30 minute timeslot at once? Or is the limitation part of charter and nothing to do with the size of my tv?

You still get only 30 minutes at a time.

Thanks for your guys' help.

Originally posted by WRacer
Yes, we are working on the transmitter during the day. We no longer have a back-up transmitter, so we have been forced to sign off to do some of the work. At this time we are just updating some of the transmitter equipment to allow a higher power level. The 5.1 equipment has not arrived yet. The plan is for the work to be finished tonight.
Jim

Thanks Jim.

Thanks StLouG.

Is it just me or am I the only person who finds it stupid that I have to look at ads when using a guide and paying 70+ bucks a month for cable? Are they not getting enough money from me already that they have to have ads placed all over? I just moved to the St. Louis area from Indianapolis and previously had Comcast Cable which had no ads and showed more than 30 minutes worth of viewing at one time.

I'd say that I'm a pretty content with charter so far, but the ads just annoy the living day lights out of me. Get rid of the ads and I'd be a happy camper.

/end_rant

I hated the ads when I was with Charter.

Dyaus,

You can go ahead in time using the right arrow on the remote. This is not as good as the grid I had on my Sony Direct TV menu but it is better than a scrolling guide...The ads are bothersome.

Originally posted by BW-CHTR
OFF TOPIC

I have been reading this forum for a long time.

This is regretably my first post, but I suddenly have found myself with extra time on my hands. I just wanted to let you all know that tons of people are being layed off locally at Charter. It began yesterday and will probably continue through the end of the week. The layoffs are effecting many aspects of the business from customer service, technical, back office and more. I was told that my position as a System Technician was "eliminated".

4113, do you work for Charter? What is your status? Are there any others in this forum? Visit cableworker.com. Sorry to waste a post on your board. Just trying to find others. Sorry to interrupt.

BW

BW-CHTR:

Has Charter had recent financial troubles? Are they laying off many people? I recently worked at an internet/bandwidth startup that failed and several of my co-workers ended up at Charter in the Pipeline ISP department. It would suck to be layed off twice in a few years.

Send an e-mail to Jim Woodcock at the St. Louis Blues jwoodcock@stlblues.com. He has the authority to lift the blackout. He always acts and wants to be on high-end technology stuff so he should listen to the fans and let them enjoy a lousy spiritless Blues team in HD.

Originally posted by Kurt K
Well, here's the followup email I received:

I guess I'll see what FOX has to say, although I doubt they will be willing to let people watch the game on another channel and mix out on advertising.

Originally posted by Phoenician
Send an e-mail to Jim Woodcock at the St. Louis Blues jwoodcock@stlblues.com. He has the authority to lift the blackout. He always acts and wants to be on high-end technology stuff so he should listen to the fans and let them enjoy a lousy spiritless Blues team in HD. Thanks. An email has been sent!

I too sent an email to Jim Woodcock - maybe getting multiple emails on the same subject will get the Blues/NHL to understand what a great marketing tool that HDTV can be for their product.

NOTE- Jim Woodcock is a great guy. I have dealt with him on a few occasions and he goes out of his way to satisfy every customer he encounters.

I've just sent my "waive the HD blackout" request to Jim Woodcock at the Blues -- even though I'm not a regular ice hockey fan.

Jim Woodcock said the blackout was lifted for 3/2, which I already knew. I replied and specifically asked about the 3/16 and 3/30 games, but haven't heard anything.

Originally posted by Kurt K
Jim Woodcock said the blackout was lifted for 3/2, which I already knew. I replied and specifically asked about the 3/16 and 3/30 games, but haven't heard anything.

I did the same thing. I sent an email, then almost immediately got a response saying he lifted it for Tuesday. I then replied asking about future games and thanking him for lifting it on the first. I also asked about a possible simulcast with KPLR, but I won't hold my breathe.
Dug

How about if the first post of the month would list all the tv stations' contact points, likewise the sports' teams, such as jwoodcock at the Blues?
It would make it easier to locate for sending requests, such as the Blues on it high-def? What do you all think?

I have an HDTV (Samsung Tantus 52"). I will be moving to a new apartment in a month or so and want to get surround sound speakers. The room dimensions of the TV room will be 11-2X15-2. I am sure most of you have been to Ultimate Electronics how they have about 3 or 4 setups in the middle of the store with couches, srround sound, tv, shelves, carpet, the whole bit (with the speaker wires running under the couch and under a rug to the tv. I think that would be ideal for an apartment setting (please tell me otherwise.) So I assume I need 5 speakers then, Center channel on top of the Tv, two speaker to the left and right of TV, and a speaker on both sides of the couch. I am all new to this.

I did some research a while back and found this reciever:
• Harmon/Kardon AVR-325
and these speakers
• TSS-750 (Infinity)

Please give me your advice on everything. I really could use it.

-Chris

Originally posted by Big STL fan
How about if the first post of the month would list all the tv stations' contact points, likewise the sports' teams, such as jwoodcock at the Blues?



Already done by the DropTheRemote. See first page of the thread.

My mother in law came to visit today. I was trying to impress her with the HDTV. She said, "my Sherryl (sister in law) has one of these---she bought her big screen TV five years ago for two thousand dollars." I told her this was not just a big screen TV but a HTDV and showed her the few channels broadcasting anything in high def. She was not impressed. There was not much of anything good on the air in HDTV at the time (as usual).

Until the general public understands that HDTV is not the same as a "big screen TV" I don't think things will change too much. Just stretching a SD picture over a big screen is what most people think is HDTV. We ended up watching "Chicago" on Starz -- stretched digital cable SD over a 16:9 screen.

redwine,

This is a great illustration of how consumer education is sorely lacking in the digital/HD transition. The only sources for good information on HDTV is the traditional home theater press and online forums. But HT mags and forums are basically preaching to that small part of the population that is already converted or nearly there, so there's no real mainstream impact from that.

The manufacturers have done more than all other parties, but still their effort seems pretty spotty. What little focus there is from them is aimed solely on the boxes they're trying to move and while I can understand that as their priority, HDTV is treated as little more than a buzzword in passing. Retailers, broadcasters and satellite/cable providers have all done buttkiss in an effort to really educate their customers and/or audience about the what, why and how of HDTV.

In your own example, maybe you should have popped down to the local video shop and rented the "Chicago" DVD. If you were looking to get a big-screen rise out of your mother-in-law, that probably would have been your best bet in the absence of any great-looking HD.

I think it's fine to add the sports teams contacts to the monthly sticky thread (or as a separate sticky thread) -- if someone is going to track down the names of the persons actually responsible for television issues for these teams.

I don't think there's much benefit in sending these sorts of notes to the local sports franchises unless we can be sure they're going to land on the desk of the person who has responsibility or a clear stake in television-related issues.

It sounds like someone has effectively identified that person for the Blues, so we'd need to find out the same thing for the Rams and the Cards.

KBryant,

I think your surround sound issue could most effectively be researched in some of the other AVS forums on this topic.

Speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=89

Surround Electronics: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=90

Setup: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=91


But it sounds like you're basically on the right track.

I'd urge you to consider the same identical speakers for the front left, center and right, but if not, be sure to get a center that is designed to work with the L/R fronts you buy.

When it comes to the surrounds, there are any number of options and possibilities -- ceiling-mounted, wall-mounted, stands, direct-firing, dipoles, bipoles, two surrounds (L/R) vs. three (L/C/R), etc.

This isn't my area of expertise, but if you'd like to bounce some ideas around, feel free to give me a call.

I just wondered if I could get the last post submitted on a Feb 29th. You have to wait four years to do this again.

Nah... not the last :)

not even close

I'm thinking we need to get Red a new hobby if he posts at 11:59 tonight.... :)

I finally got a response from the KTVI webmaster (who I started e-mailing because the technical e-mail has been bouncing), who said he had printed out ( :rolleyes: ) and passed on my complaints about 14x9 and lack of Dolby Digital 5.1 passthru from Fox. No actual response back from any techs though.

He promised that he would look into why the e-mail hasn't been monitored.

Blues' press release:

Blues in High Definition Tuesday vs. Flames

The St. Louis Blues today lifted the local territory HDNet blackout of
their home game Tuesday, March 2, vs. the Calgary Flames at 7 p.m.
central time.

That means St. Louis area subscribers to HDNet through a local digital
cable or satellite provider will receive the game in high definition on
HDNet. However, the game will not be available on Fox Sports Midwest,
KPLR WB 11 or the NHL Center Ice package because neither the Blues nor
the Flames are televising the game locally. The game is available only
on HDNet or on radio on The Big 550, KTRS, the Blues Radio Network or at
ktrs.com.

Good seats remain available for this important battle vs. the Flames
for playoff positioning in the Western Conference. College or high school
students may purchase any Mezzanine ticket for $15 or any Plaza ticket
for $30, compliments of Z107.7 and 93.7 The Bull.

However we all knew that....hopefully they'll lift the blackout for the other 2 games this month on HDNet.

Hey it's March already. Who wants to author a new thread?

Have at it boys and girls!

Link To February 04 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=360899)

I guess it will be me :D

The new March thread is available here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374109)

Has anyone heard any more details on these 2 Charter issues?

1) DVR Receivers

2) ESPN-HD coming online

Both were reported to be 'coming soon'. Just curious if I had missed any more details...

Have we lost 4113? Seems like he hasnt been around since he expressed some frustration with all the perceived negativity towards Charter - I hope hasnt left us for good

St Louis Tower Maps

For anyone doing the initial install of an OTA antenna, or anyone looking to fine-tune the positioning of their existing antenna, the attached ZIP file contains two maps showing the tower location for each digital station in St. Louis.


Your Right to Erect an Antenna and/or Satellite Dish

As more and more consumers purchase high-definition displays, there's increasing interest in arranging for receipt of HD programming via an over-the-air antenna or through a satellite dish.

Unfortunately with the proliferation of cable television in the 1980s and 1990s, many communities, property developers and homeowner/condo owner associations tried to undo the visual blight of antennas (and later, satellite dishes) from their local skylines. While these laws, rules or convenants were well-intended -- after all, it would be difficult to argue for the cosmetic benefits of a yagi antenna -- these actions are not legally enforceable.

The FCC has ruled -- with only a few very narrow exceptions -- that you have the right to receive over-the-air television and radio broadcasts and as a result you have a right to erect an antenna to receive these signals. This ruling also encompasses the erection of small satellite dishes.

Even if you have previously signed a lease or homeower association convenant that requires you to forego the right to erect an antenna or satellite dishes, the FCC has ruled that these types of provisions are unenforceable.

In general, there are only a few notable exceptions to this rule:

* First, the location of the antenna or dish must be an "exclusive use" area. As a homeowner or condominium owner, this would mean any part of the property over which you have control. For renters, this would also apply to balconies or patios that are intended solely for your use. The sort of rental property area that would not be covered would be general use areas, such as common passageways or rooftop areas that are clearly intended for the shared use of all residents.

* Second, the antenna or dish cannot be erected in areas that would create a legitimate safety issue, for example one that is dangling off a balcony or placed too close to electrical wiring.

* Third, there may be restrictions if you are located in a designated historical (or prehistorical) district, in which case a permit may be required.

The other major limitation is that these devices cannot exceed 1 meter (39.37 inches) in diameter.

The burden of proof in contesting your right to mount a dish and/or antenna rests with the landlord, homeowner association, city council, etc. Strictly speaking, you do not need to seek prior permission or provide prior notice, so long as the device is to be situated in an area under your control and there is no obvious safety issue.

However, before taking on the expense and effort of such an installation, you should read and review in its entirety the following summary of the FCC ruling on consumer rights to mount over-the-air devices:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


More Information about Antennas and DTV

The Consumer Electronics Association antenna mapping program at AntennaWeb.org can help you determine the proper antenna to use, based on your own location and the distance from the local digital broadcast towers.

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx


Feedback to St. Louis Stations

Is there something that you're unhappy about concerning the digital broadcasts by local St. Louis stations?

Weird-looking presentation of standard-definition programming? Multiple channel bugs cluttering up those beautiful images? Somebody at the station forgot to "flip the switch" before or during the middle of your favorite HD program?

Or better yet, maybe you'd just like to send your thanks and encouragement to your favorite local station for the effort they've made so far in providing us with more and better HD programming. The cost and effort in providing digital and HD programming is significant, and it's important for the station owners and management to know that we're watching.

Well, here's the place where you can find the online addresses where you can send your comments and feedback.

KTVI Channel 2 contact:
ktvitech@fox2ktvi.com

KMOV Channel 4 contact:
programs@kmov.com
WNichol@kmov.com

KSDK Channel 5 contact:
jheskett@ksdk.gannett.com
kcreamer@ksdk.gannett.com

KETC Channel 9 contact:
letters@ketc.org

KPLR Channel 11 contact:
whatson@wb11tv.com
technical@wb11tv.com

KDNL Channel 30 contact:
jwright@kdnl.sbgnet.com

WRBU Channel 46 contact:
[no email, no web site, no HD programming]

NOTE: The Tower Maps attachment seems to have gotten dropped here, so scroll down and find the separate message where it's included.

* There are two ways to receive local digital/HD broadcasts in the St. Louis area. The first, and by far simplest, is to subscribe to Charter Cable. Unfortunately, Charter doesn't currently provide all of the available St. Louis digital stations. To date, Charter is only offering KTVI-DT (FOX), KMOV-DT (CBS) and KSDK-DT (NBC).

Until Charter is able to deliver a complete line-up of local digital/HD stations (or if you've already selected satellite for your subscription television service), you'll need some sort of antenna -- either indoor, attic or roof mount.


* Forget most of what you know about receiving traditional analog television via an antenna, as digital broadcasting is for the most part a different animal.

The first and most important thing to know is that digital signals, once received, tend to be highly stable. The sort of artifacts that you may recall about pre-cable antenna reception of local stations isn't all that relevant to digital reception. For example, in the digital realm there's no visual equivalent to the analog artifacts known as "snow," or "ghosting."

And in most cases, a digital signal won't slowly fade in and out as was sometimes the case in fringe analog reception areas. For the most part, with digital broadcasts you either receive the signal and have a near-perfect picture and sound, or you won't get anything at all.

In addition, barring significant topographical or architectural obstacles between your location and the transmission towers, digital signals appear to be more robust in terms of distance they can travel without degradation. While it's the exception rather than the rule, there are instances where digital OTA signals have been received as far as 120 miles from the tower.

So, just because you may have had difficulty with OTA analog signals in the past at your location, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to receive digital OTA signals.


* All of the current St. Louis digital/HD stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF spectrum. The UHF channel assignments for local stations appears below:

26 - KPLR (WB)
31 - KDNL (ABC)
35 - KSDK (NBC)
39 - KETC (PBS)
43 - KTVI (FOX)
47 - WRBU (UPN)
56 - KMOV (CBS)

Today, all St. Louis stations are "simulcasting," with the traditional analog broadcasts via one frequency and the digital/HD broadcasts through another. For example, KMOV sends its analog broadcasts out as VHF channel 4 and then simulataneously sends its digital broadcasts as UHF channel 56.

As the transition to digital broadcasting progresses, there will come a time when the analog broadcasts will be discontinued and stations will only be transmitting digitally. While this switch from analog to digital was originally scheduled to take place in 2006, it's almost certain that the analog shutdown will be deferred for at least a few years.

But when that analog shutdown does occur, it's possible that one or more local stations will decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their longtime analog channel designations. As a purely hypothetical example, after shutting down its analog broadcasts, KMOV might opt to move its digital transmission to VHF channel 4.


* While the signals for digital/HD broadcasts are made up of binary data (zeros and ones), from a viewer perspective, there's nothing special about the antenna required to receive those broadcasts. As noted above, the actual transmission takes place over the UHF spectrum. That means that if you already have an old UHF-capable antenna on your rooftop or in your attic, there's a good chance that it will receive some, and possibly all, of the available local digital broadcasts. The only way to conclusively determine if that older antenna will carry you into the digital age is to test it.

However, it is possible that in order to maximize signal integrity you might need to upgrade the cable run from an existing antenna to your distribution point(s), especially if the antenna uses the flimsy ribbon-type cable connection. If you need to replace the cable for an existing antenna, RG-6 quad-shield coax is recommended. A 1,000-foot roll of RG-6 quad coax can be purchased for around $75, though it is possible to buy smaller quantities at a higher per-foot cost.


* If you're starting from scratch and need to purchase an antenna, there is some merit in selecting a UHF-only antenna. While a combo VHF-UHF antenna would likely work in many situations, a UHF-only antenna will normally give better, more reliable results. If you do have an existing antenna and it isn't capable of pulling in all of the stations in the area, there's a good chance that swapping out for a UHF-only antenna would result in better reception.

Of course, the downside in opting for a UHF-only antenna is that if any of the local stations subsequently decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their old analog channel assignment, a VHF antenna might be required to continue receiving those stations.


* Without officially endorsing one antenna over another, here are some suggestions that should work for most viewers within a 45-mile radius of the St. Louis transmission towers.

But first, bear in mind that antenna reception is one part art and one part science. What works in one location might not work across the street due to topographical or physical obstacles in the signal path at that second location. But that sort of anomaly is rare, and antenna reception is normally achievable with some reasonable effort and determination. But it is important to understand that there are no certainties and the only way to find out what can be received with an antenna in a given location is to test one yourself or arrange for one to be installed by a proven installer.

For outdoor or attic antennae, ChannelMaster sells at least two UHF-only models that you should consider -- the CM4221 (retail $25), which is a 4-bay rated for 45 miles, and the CM4228 (retail $50), which is an 8-bay rated for 60 miles. Winegard has the Prostar 1000 model PR-4400 rated for 45 miles, and the PR-8800 rated for 60 miles. Radio Shack also sells a UHF-only antenna (catalog # 15-2160, $30 retail) that is worth considering.

As a general suggestion, avoid antennas that look appear to be working overtime to not look like an antenna. While it's true that traditional antennae are unattractive and a lot of people consider them to be eyesores to be avoided at all cost, the newer streamlined, aerodynamic antennae seem to compromise reception capability in exchange for a more friendly appearance.

For indoor antennas, there are many options here as well, but the current performance leader is the Zenith Silver Sensor (ZHDTV1), which is available at most local Best Buy stores at a cost of around $40. The excellent performance of the Silver Sensor is probably in part due to the fact that Zenith actually designed the technology responsible for the transmission of OTA digital/HD signals, known as 8VSB.

Again, there's no reliable way to predict if an indoor antenna will work in your location, short of buying one and testing it. The good news here is that most of the major retailers have reasonable return policies, so it's unlikely that you'll be out major bucks if it turns out that an indoor antenna isn't up to the job in your home.

My March questions for Charter (these were my February questions as well, but remain unanswered):

1. When will ESPN HD be turned on;

2. When will Discovery HD be turned on

a). And, why do some Charter cities currently have Discovery HD, and some , like St. Louis, do not?

Also for Charter: will we be seeing the Motorola/Moxi DVR with HD capability in March?

Motorola BMC9012 DVR (http://broadband.motorola.com/noflash/bmc.html)

It looks like we have two march threads going. The other one was started by redwine. Is there anyway both of these threads can be combined into one? Just asking.

Originally posted by StLouG
It looks like we have two march threads going. The other one was started by redwine. Is there anyway both of these threads can be combined into one? Just asking.

I put a link on that 'rogue' thread pointing back to here. :p

Poor red... they tried to end February... didn't get that. Tried to start March... and now they didn't get that either.

Chris

Getting Charter HD setup today around 3-5. I hope they start broadcasting ESPNHD and DiscoveryHD soon so i can enjoy hdtv even more.

Originally posted by BudShark
Poor red... they tried to end February... didn't get that. Tried to start March... and now they didn't get that either.

Chris

Maybe Red can have the first compliant against Charter for the month :)

I posted this on the February thread before I realized the new March thread had started!

Maybe someone here can help me out. I normally tend to just keep up with the St. Louis thread but I couldn't tell you what thread I seen it on. It was back in late December or early January when Dish was having delivery problems with the 811s. I remember a posting for an alternate phone number to Dish. It went to some VPs office or something. Is anyone aware of this number? My wife and I have tried their 800-333-DISH number three times in the last couple of days and each CSR gives a different answer and none of them are good. I wanted to try this other number. I tried searching all the forums multiple ways and can't find it again.

I submitted the following to Charters Web site:

I am currently a Dish Network and SWB DSL Subscriber. I heard you will be
releasing the SA8000 HD DVR soon. Can you tell me when this will take
place. If it is soon I will probably switch from Dish Network to Charter.

Here's the reply:

Thank you for your e-mail submission to our website.

Charter DVR is not available in your area. Our DVR product is in it's final beta testing stage in our Rochester, MN market. We are anticipating the release of this product in June or July 2004.

=======================================
Looks like I'm going to re-up with SWB for a year of DSL@29.95. I'm going to hold off on the Dish DVR921 however until we see if Charter improves their service.

Dave

Originally posted by MyMonyPit
I posted this on the February thread before I realized the new March thread had started!

Maybe someone here can help me out. I normally tend to just keep up with the St. Louis thread but I couldn't tell you what thread I seen it on. It was back in late December or early January when Dish was having delivery problems with the 811s. I remember a posting for an alternate phone number to Dish. It went to some VPs office or something. Is anyone aware of this number? My wife and I have tried their 800-333-DISH number three times in the last couple of days and each CSR gives a different answer and none of them are good. I wanted to try this other number. I tried searching all the forums multiple ways and can't find it again.

I forgot the phone number - the email is ceo@echostar.com. If I find the number I'll repost it.

Are you a new customer or an existing customer looking for a deal? The reason I ask is that most of the Dish retailers have 811s - but you don't get a deal unless you are new.

Chris

Existing. They were (are) offering existing customers the 811 for either $149 or $199 depending on how long you had been with them. The offer started in December I believe but they had such bad inventory problems, they started a list.

Hey...what constitutes an official thread anyway...did I miss the fine print? You guys got me paranoid..

Hey...what constitutes an official thread anyway...did I miss the fine print? You guys got me paranoid..
There's no fine print; we're self policing here. I would have started one but I think that the "official" thread has the FAQs that DroptheRemote as the first (or one of the first) posts.

BTW: should we include a list of bars/restaurants that have HDTV in the FAQs?

I think the official one is where Drop the Remote finds first. Apparently Redwine started one yesterday, then TomGrooms started one today.

I believe we are seeing the first signs of the apocolypse. The St. Louis thread is splintered. One faction is paranoid, the other is confident. Now all we need is some charter/dish fights to bring upon the four horsemen.

I've never over-reacted to anything, and so it begins.....
Dug ;)

The official thread is the one with the link posted in the previous months thread!

;)

This went missing from the sticky thread above.

Just wanted to note that I wasn't playing favorites on the monthly thread. :o

The only one I saw was the one that Tom started, so I posted the resource messages there.

Nothing personal, Red -- I'll be sure to look more closely next time. :cool:

Shouldn't the Blues be on and not some music group?

wtf?? The only Blues game that is not scheduled to be blacked out on HDNet is tonight and what is currently on HDNet instead of hockey? Some goofy music show....

W T F ????

Originally posted by tcfila
Shouldn't the Blues be on and not some music group?

They are on HDNet. Fuhr is doing color tonight.

DroptheRemote,
I was just trying to stir up some $h**. Never mind me.

Tom,
I did, I did. (to bad there are no smilies with a balling(crying) face like on other boards.) you can also never mind me.
Dug

I want Blues hockey in HD. This music group sucks.

I assume this is not just Charter but the HDnet feed to our area.

Who can you trust? We can't blame Quenneville.

HOW IS THE GAME NOT ON ??!?!?!?!??! This is not on Charter HDNET !!!!

Mr_Bester said:
I believe we are seeing the first signs of the apocolypse. The St. Louis thread is splintered. One faction is paranoid, the other is confident. Now all we need is some charter/dish fights to bring upon the four horsemen.

I could see the day when we'll start getting more factions:


St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Big Red Fans vs. St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Rams Fans
St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Bulger Fans vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Warner Fans
St. Louis HDTV viewers that live inside the 270 loop vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that live outside the 270 loop
St. Louis HDTV viewers that live in St. Charles vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that live everyone else
St. Louis HDTV viewers that live on the Illinois side of the river vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that live in metro St. Louis in Missouri
St. Louis HDTV viewers that went to private school vs. St. Louis HDTV viewers that went to public schools.

That last one could get nasty as the CBC vs. DeSmet vs. SLUH vs Vianney St. Louis HDTV viewer threads break out.

Blues game is on HDNET on Directv...is anyone else getting it?

It is not on Charter. There is some bad music group.

Does this mean only Charter is blacking out the game on HDNet?

Bad news!

The guy from HDNET called me back. He told me that they never received official word from the NHL that the blackout could be lifted, and because of that they cannot send us the feed until such notice is received. So there is a good chance that Charter is off the hook on this one.

Sounds to me like this could be ANOTHER issue with Blues executives. Apparently if Jim Woodcock had alerted the NHL that this game could be lifted, like he's SUPPOSED to do, then we would be getting the feed.

Thanks Jim.

Oh well. I am usually up until 1:30 anyway, so I'll just watch the 11:30 rebroadcast.

I dont understand how the game can be on Directv and not Charter. If the blackout is controlled by HDNET, would it not apply to any system showing the game via HDNET in St Louis?

Dont get me wrong, I'm happy to be watching the game right now, it just seems odd to me...

e-man,
Didn't see your message until AFTER I posted, but you can be assured that I called that guy RIGHT back after hearing that satellite people were getting this game.

He explained to me once again that they received no official word from the NHL that this game could be shown locally due to a lift of the blackout. He went on to tell me that HDNET in Colorado handles the actual feeds to the cable companies such as Charter. However, he said the satellite companies, such as Dish and DirecTV are responsible for their own feeds, and what should or should not be shown. He said since HDNET received no official word that would mean that the Dish companies didn't either. He said there is a very good chance that action will be taken against these companies for airing the game without the proper authority. What a crock! God forbid a company give customers what they want and WERE TOLD THEY COULD HAVE!

Those of you that are late nighters, the game WILL BE re-aired at 11:30 CST tonight. That will NOT be blacked out under any circumstances.

It seems to me that the Blues, HDNet, and Charter should be on a conference call at this moment and correct this. This is known as due diligence in my line of work. I'm glad they aren't the phone company...oh wait they are ... and my phone goes through the cable!

maybe we should have one STL thread for those of us watching the Blues in HD and one thread for those that aren't. ;)

Can this be the thread for those of us watching the game, I don't want to have to find the other thread? ;)

On a side note, There WAS an official press release from the Blues, unless this isn't enough for HDNet's cable folks. I would be greatly surprised if D* or E* get any kind of trouble over this.

Dug

I agree, the excuse provided by the guy at HDNET makes no sense to me. Its in their best interests for the game to be seen in St. Louis. They make money partly based upon the number of viewers they attract, and by not having the St. Louis market be able to watch a St. Louis game, that hurts their ratings. So should they not bear some responsibility for finding out whether or not they can show the game in St. Louis, as opposed to waiting for the Blues to seek them out and tell them its ok?

Of course, all of this implies that Charter did not somehow screw this up for their customers, and in my book they are guilty until proven innocent...

And for those who cant see the game, its definitely worth catching one of the replays. Not for the quality of the game, clearly, but its a great looking production and a rare treat to catch the Blues in HD, as I've heard of no plans for either Fox Sports Midwest or Channel 11 to commence local hd broadcasts of the Blues...

I can confirm the game is on both Dish Network & DirecTV. Don't blame it on Jim Woodcock because he did alert all networks including HDNet. Sounds like someone at Charter did....



Originally posted by Drizzt_DoUrden
Bad news!

The guy from HDNET called me back. He told me that they never received official word from the NHL that the blackout could be lifted, and because of that they cannot send us the feed until such notice is received. So there is a good chance that Charter is off the hook on this one.

Sounds to me like this could be ANOTHER issue with Blues executives. Apparently if Jim Woodcock had alerted the NHL that this game could be lifted, like he's SUPPOSED to do, then we would be getting the feed.

Thanks Jim.

Oh well. I am usually up until 1:30 anyway, so I'll just watch the 11:30 rebroadcast.

Charter's headquarters are in St. Louis right? The Blues are in St. Louis right? Maybe there are no sports fans at Charter who care about HD.

How much does Dish charge for that 811?

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I have been "trolling" this site for approximately 3 months....found it when I was researching which HDTV to purchase....great information. After the three months of sitting here, being amazed at the amount of information you guys know about St. Louis HDTV, Charter's blackout of tonight's Blues game has finally pushed me over the edge to make my first post....

What is Charter doing??? Any idea why they keep "screwing up"? I wish 4113 was still around to spread some light on this.:(

Originally posted by StLouG
Maybe Red can have the first compliant against Charter for the month :)

Hey, I tried but could not control myself tonight..

Now that I have started my "rants", here is my next one...

When will KDNL 30 and Charter come to some sort of an agreement to broadcast the HD signal??? I have heard that, for this issue only, Charter is trying to negotiate the deal, and ABC 30 is asking for the world. I hope someone at KDNL understands that the majority of us HDTV fanatics only watch major networks HD ( or SD WS, in KTVI's case) channels. Until MNF comes back on the air in August, I will probably not watch any ABC (not that I am missing much, IMO).

Originally posted by redwine
Hey, I tried but could not control myself tonight..

Sorry, Red...didn't mean to steal your thunder...

Maybe the guy or gal at Charter responsible for dealing with the lifting of the HDNet blackout was one of the many who were handed their walking papers last week... :(

At the risk of hitting the same note over and over again, this is another example of why it should be a no-brainer for someone at Charter to have formal responsibility for actively monitoring this forum.

OK, it is true that we represent only a very small sliver of their local customer base and that we probably have more esoteric interests and higher expectations than their typical customer.

But where else could they so quickly and effortlessly find quality subscriber feedback? In this case, being on top of the conversations here over the past week might have prevented what's looking to be a major PR faux pas, regardless where the ultimate responsibility lies for this screw-up.

But those who won't help themselves, can't be helped.

I, as a Blues fan and a Charter subscriber, have been waiting patiently for tonight's one and only Blues game on HDNet. Sadly, I pretty much planned my night around this. And what did I get? Besides not getting to watch the programming I had been told I could watch, I also got another night of my Charter internet going out [which is becoming an almost daily occurance].

As a few of you are probably thinking as you read this, 'why is this guy still subscribing to Charter?", I too am thinking the same thing. I hate that I now have to 1) convince my wife that a change is due, 2) do the research to figure out what internet service & satellite service is right for us, and 3) go thru all the hassle to make the changes. Too bad Charter just couldnt get their **** together and offer up consistant service so I would have to make this change. Maybe the rumors of Comcast buying up Charter would improve things.

Sorry for the rant, but this is ridiculous....

I'm not sure I'm following the logic that charter is to blame. If HDNET is not forwarding the signal to the cable companies then it would seem to me to be HDNET's problem. Don't get me wrong Charter can do enough on its own to be blamed for something but I don't think so in this case.

I too am very dissapointed about tonights game.

Originally posted by Dave Beebe
Mr_Bester said:


I could see the day when we'll start getting more factions:


St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Big Red Fans vs. St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Rams Fans
St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Bulger Fans vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that are Warner Fans
St. Louis HDTV viewers that live inside the 270 loop vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that live outside the 270 loop
St. Louis HDTV viewers that live in St. Charles vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that live everyone else
St. Louis HDTV viewers that live on the Illinois side of the river vs St. Louis HDTV viewers that live in metro St. Louis in Missouri
St. Louis HDTV viewers that went to private school vs. St. Louis HDTV viewers that went to public schools.



Kind of coincidental and scary.... I'm in the second group of EVERY faction listed above!

Oh by the way, remember I mentioned last month I was gonna put my Sony HD100 up on eBay to help pay for the HD DirecTivo that's coming out at the end of this month?

You guys aren't gonna BELIEVE how much my HD100 fetched....

Would you believe $750????????? Only $50 less than I paid for it... three years ago!!!! Gotta love it when two people get into a bidding war! :)

So now the HD DirecTivo will only cost me $150 out of pocket! Woo hoo!

Only downside is, I now have no HD til then :( but with football season over, I can manage...

Originally posted by Joe Smith
I'm not sure I'm following the logic that charter is to blame. If HDNET is not forwarding the signal to the cable companies then it would seem to me to be HDNET's problem. Don't get me wrong Charter can do enough on its own to be blamed for something but I don't think so in this case.

I too am very dissapointed about tonights game.

Maybe Charter isnt to blame, but Dish and DirecTV had the game on in St.Louis, so something is weird when its only Charter customers get screwed tonight.

Looks like I missed all of the Fireworks last night about the Blues game. I did watch on D* last night, although I almost wished I didn't :( I would like to say to all of the Charter subscribers that missed the game last night that you probably get to catch at least one HD game during the playoffs (I hope the league schedules HD coverage), but it's not looking good for that to even happen.

Originally posted by redwine
Hey, I tried but could not control myself tonight..

Red that wasn't meant as a slam against you. It was just my comment on the quality of services we receive from charter. For example the hockey game.

I too went to watch the blues game last night after just having my Charter HD setup a little earlier that day only to see some band there instead. It was pretty annoying, especially since the guide still said the hockey game was supposed to be on. I'm also supposed to be getting Showtime HD, but for some reason it keeps saying I have to order it. I called them up and they said they set it up, guess i'll just have to call them again.

Do your guys' VOD work? Mine complains about not being able to connect to a server. I wasn't sure if that was isolated to yesterday evening or if this is a regular occurence or something I need to talk to them about as well.

Anyway, with my new charter hd cable do you guys recommend that i use the componenet or DVI connection? Right now I'm using component cables and don't have a DVI cable. But if you guys think i'll notice some improvement I think I'll run out to the store and pick up a DVI cable.

Dyaus,

The DVI input is going to give you the greatest benefit with a digital display, such as a DLP, a plasma or LCD device. If you're talking about a CRT (direct, rear- or front-projection), the impact will be minimal and more likely non-existent.

I've seen this topic discussed among other calibrators recently, and based on a review of circuit diagrams for the most popular CRT sets, the DVI signal is typically converted to component video upon entering the set and then to RGB for display by the CRTs.

Ideally DVI would be immediately converted to RGB without going through the rest of the video processing chain where edge enhancement, color decoding games and dozens of other manipulations take place. The interim step to component video probably negates any major benefit in image quality on CRT sets with DVI.

Your set might be the exception to this but chances are slim. See if you can borrow a DVI cable before spending additional money on something that's a long shot to be beneficial.

Thanks DroptheRemote.

I do indeed have have a RPCRT. I have the Sony 57WS550. I have a DVI cable that I'm using on my computer atm, would this cable work ok?

Doug,

I don't disagree with your point with respect to processing in CRT based RPTVs... but I do have to say that's very poor design.

In the end, the signal has to be RGB to hit the guns, so all processing should be done on RGB.

Oh well. Current generation Pioneer plasmas convert HDMI/DVI in to analog then A/D that due to a design flaw. It's supposed to be corrected in the next generation.

As HDMI/DVI becomes more prevalent, perhaps we'll see more RGB processing which (IMO) would show more tangible benefits even on CRT displays.

Cheers,

Let me try this again since the original thread got pulled out from under me:

Is the home show at Americas Center worth going to this weekend for home theater or HDTV? Seems like there were some electronics last time I went quite a few years ago.

I'll try this again too--I tried this suggestion last month. If needed at all, why not just a link to

Where to Watch HDNet--Missouri (http://www.hd.net/listsportsbars.html?state=MO&wheretogo=sportsbars)

and

Where to Watch HDNet--Illinois (http://www.hd.net/listsportsbars.html?state=IL&wheretogo=sportsbars)

(see how much bigger the list is for MO than IL--interesting?)

It might not be all inclusive, but to me it is a litmus test to prove they know something about HD. . . if they have bothered to get on the list.

Originally posted by Dave Beebe
BTW: should we include a list of bars/restaurants that have HDTV in the FAQs?

First of all, this is nothing new. I've run into a handful of incidents where C band and DirecTV did not black out the same programming.

Second, if there is actual decoder addressing being done by HDNet to actually prevent the reception of the Blues games by Charter equipment in St. Louis, trust me--that change is very recent (and I seriously doubt it happened this soon). Charter chose between 2 feeds and they chose the one that didn't have the Hockey game on it.

And I guess if what HDNet says is true, we can forget any chance of seeing the other 2 games this month then? Somebody needs to call up the post-dispatch and get them to do a story about this--and as a byproduct pressure the Blues to lift the restrictions on the other games?

Originally posted by esterman
I dont understand how the game can be on Directv and not Charter. If the blackout is controlled by HDNET, would it not apply to any system showing the game via HDNET in St Louis?


Originally posted by Joe Smith
I'm not sure I'm following the logic that charter is to blame. If HDNET is not forwarding the signal to the cable companies then it would seem to me to be HDNET's problem. Don't get me wrong Charter can do enough on its own to be blamed for something but I don't think so in this case.

John, I couldn't agree with you more.

Of course, this is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of bad or questionable design. Sometimes I think that the engineers keep coming up with new tricks to justify their continued existence. Which, considering most of Japan Inc. continues with "lifetime employment," is odd. To be fair to the engineers, a lot of what passes for technical enhancements is simply marketing doubletalk and pursuit of the all-too-prominent feature checklist.

Hopefully some of that will fall away in the transition to digital, but the early indicators are not terribly promising.

Dyaus, not sure whether your computer cable will work on your television. I'm not fully up to speed on all DVI issues, but there are basically two types of DVI connections -- DVI-D, which is for carrying only digital signals and DVI-I which can carry either digital or analog. If you know you are connecting your computer monitor to a digital video out from your video card, it should work but even here you might find other variations between your DVI source and the type of DVI signal the display expects to receive.

At this early stage, DVI is a moving target, with several different flavors and some variations in interpretation of the DVI spec. There's also some variation in what aspects of DVI signals can be controlled through user (or service) controls (color, tint, contrast, brightness, etc).

The unsettled issues are the primary reason I haven't yet added DVI to my calibrator toolkit, though I'm starting to get more and more interest in having displays calibrated for DVI sources and will need to pull the trigger soon.

Originally posted by turls
Let me try this again since the original thread got pulled out from under me:

Is the home show at Americas Center worth going to this weekend for home theater or HDTV? Seems like there were some electronics last time I went quite a few years ago.

I'm not sure (haven't seen any maps or listings) but it seems that hot tubs are about 95% of the displays at the home show.

Thanks Turls. I hadn't seen that list. However I noticed a few problems with HDNet's list:
I don't know why Lil' Nikkis is one the list. Their managers are clueless on how to get HD on their one RCA HDTV. Plus they're closed on Sundays (no football).
The Sports Zone in Kenrick plaza has two 16x9 front projection screens. Has anyone seen HD there? I've only been there one time for a single drink.
Bone's Tavern on Manchester Road (by Ries Rd. in Ballwin) had a sign up saying "Come watch NASCAR in HDTV". Has anyone been in there?

By the way 4113 please come back. If you lost your job last week let us know. If you left because of anti-Charter sentement in some posts, don't take it personally.

4113,

I second Dave's sentiments, as I'm sure do many others here.

Doug (DROPtheREMOTE),

don't know if you've already seen this or if you care, but I found this while surfing around today and thought you might find it of interest.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/isf/michaeltlv/isf_m-tlv_rosettastone_calibration1.html

I still haven't convinced myself to spring for ISF, but when I do I'll call you.

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
4113, I second Dave's sentiments, as I'm sure do many others here.


I agree - we want you to stay an active member 4113. Your participation if very helpful, even if we do not all 'drink the Charter koolaid'. Cmon back whenever you have a chance.

On that note, I wish we had someone more on the inside of Dish and DirecTV as well....that would be useful resouces imho.

Just got home from work and flip on the ol' tube and it seems HDNet on Charter decided to broadcast the Blues game now. To bad it's a day late . . .

BradZ,

Thanks for pointing out the Rosetta Stone. I had actually seen this, as Michael posted it a few weeks ago on a couple of the calibrator discussion boards I frequent.

It's definitely nice to have all of this basic information in one place.

And, of course, you know I'm happy to lend a you a hand in that calibration decision process if wrestling solo isn't getting the job done. :D

Does any know whether the Motorola/Moxi DVR with HD capability is name-based (like TIVO) or time-based?

Turls,

You asked about the Home Show this week at the America's Center and any electronics being down there. Well, I talked to my local HT store, Theatrical Concepts, and the owner told me that they will have a booth down there. BTW, they also got their full lineup of Mirage speakers in. They have some Omnistat's, Omni's and OM's all on display. Haven't really had a chance to listen to them yet, but I'm eyeing up some Omnistat's for my family room due to WAF.

thanks DJ

From the beat-a-dead-horse dept, I should have just come here for answers on the Fox DD5.1 thing instead of wasting my time with KTVI . . .

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374641

Its "name-based" (if the UI hasn't changed from a year or more ago) but it sure isn't like Tivo ;)

Originally posted by caniov
Does any know whether the Motorola/Moxi DVR with HD capability is name-based (like TIVO) or time-based?

turls,

That's just sad.

But you know, I think it makes perfect sense. If a station can't be bothered to let its viewers know about HD, surround sound, etc., why in the world would they have any interest in actually communicating with those of us who are excited and what to know more about it.

They must think we're bonkers.

Ultimately these stations can run their businesses anyway they want to. I'm just completely unsympathetic when they moan about how tough it is to attract and keep viewers.

Speaking of DD5.1 I noticed KMOV no longer sends out a bogus 5.1 like they did a few weeks ago.

Not sure how well this has been publicized, but now that PBS has officially launched its HD service, they are ramping up with some good programming along with improved image quality compared with recent months. It would be better still without the multicasting, but at least it's improved a lot.

Online PBS-HD schedule can be found here: http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/tvschedules_hd.html

Anyway, 2-hour "Concert for George," the tribute concert for George Harrison, was on Wednesday night at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. Only stereo sound, but otherwise it was great.

Repeat showings are scheduled as shown below, in case you didn't see it first time around and want to check it out:


Great Performances
Concert for George

Filmed in high-definition at London's Royal Albert Hall on the first anniversary of George Harrison's death, this two-hour special celebrated the artist's life and music with performances by a who's who of popular music. Performers include Eric Clapton, Jeff Lynne, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Billy Preston, Monty Python, Anoushka Shankar, Ravi Shankar and Ringo Starr.


Broadcast Times (ET)

Sunday, March 7, 9:00pm

Monday, March 8, midnight

Tuesday, March 9, 8:00pm

Tuesday, March 9, 11:00pm

Budshark,

Thanks for the email address at Dish. We received a phone call within 24-hours of the email. My wife dealt with the rep who was extremely responsive compared to what we had experienced through the 800-333-DISH number.

Thanks again.

Turn the ole' cable box on and to my surprise the upgrade had been completed, Charter once again extends the proverbial olive branch and I will of course except it and order the install of the HD box then let fate take its course.

Fate is a cruel mistress, CSR says that the pipeline upgrade is not complete could be March or April before that is done, back up on the fence, Dish or Charter----Dish or Charter??????????

wilkemp,

what does the update do/include?

Hey everyone,

I just got all the local HDTV channels by using 2 antenna's and I am wondering what you all suggest as a combiner. Part of the directv installation I had the "installers" put up an antenna for 50 bucks, but they installed this p.o.s. omni-directional outdoor antenna that pretty much got me 0 stations. I then went to radioshack and bought a directional outdoor uhf yagi for 25 bucks and I got all the stations except cbs and abc. Since I am in a HEAVILY wooded and hilly area I thought this was pretty good (even though I am ~11 miles from the antennas in Oakville)....but not good enough for I wanted EVERYTHING. So I bought a silver sensor indoor antenna and pointed it so I could get CBS and ABC perfectly. Now my questions is this (yeah I know I am rambling)....how do I connect the signal from the silver sensor and the outdoor yagi. I first tried a regular old splitter but that gave intermittent signals (maybe the antennas are fighting with each other...who knows), so I then used an A-B switch and everything works fine, except I have to get off my lazy butt to switch the switch. I guess I could install one of those antenna mover things, but I don't want to do that...all I want to do is put my silversensor antenna and my yagi together, How do I do it?

The upgrade gives you some added channels, such as Style, Travel, Techtv, Video on Demand, more ppv channels, sports ppv, east and west feeds of the premium movie channels. Thats pretty much it, and now that I think of it, most likely it will also include and increase in rates.

tpm199,

Here's a link where you can buy a UHF or VHF/UHF combiners:

http://www.lindsayelec.com/v-u-combiners.html

I've had only limited exposure to the concept of combining antennas to aim at multiple towers, but it seems like this is normally down where the antennae are in close proximity to one another. In your case, your Silver Sensor is probably 50 feet or more downstream from the outdoor antenna, and I'm not sure if that will work, or if the effect will be compromised in any way.

Maybe someone else here can offer more guidance.

Does your receiver allow more than one antenna to be connected? This would involve some hassle in switching back and forth between the outdoor and indoor, but might be worth keeping in mind as a fallback possibility.

I've been doing some research and it seems that the ads in Charter cable are their because of TVGuide. Apparently charter has a contract with TVGuide and so doesn't have control of the appearence of the guide. So unless TVGuide decides to stop spamming us with ads or Charter switches electronic programming guide providers we could be stuck with these ads for a long time . . . :(

[OFF TOPIC]

I was at a friend's house yesterday who has a PLASMA display. He is using the default Aquarium Screensaver but would like to be able to use some sort of scrolling display of fine art paintings instead. He said he had been looking everywhere but was unable to find anything. Since I am not lucky enough to own a plasma I had no idea either.

I have been glancing around avsforum today but have so far been unsuccessful in finding an answer.

Any plasma owners on this forum that might be able to help? Feel free to contact me via email if you dont want to clutter up the forum with this off-topic subject. [abcward@yahoo.com]

Thanks!!

For those interested in Dish, SBC now has the info listed on their website, and for Missouri is does show that HD service is being offered. They have value packages available, the top 120 plus HBO & Cinemax for $56.99 locals included- plus $9.99 for HD would be just what I am paying now for Charter with no Cinemax or HD.

Originally posted by abcward
[OFF TOPIC]

I was at a friend's house yesterday who has a PLASMA display. He is using the default Aquarium Screensaver but would like to be able to use some sort of scrolling display of fine art paintings instead. He said he had been looking everywhere but was unable to find anything. Since I am not lucky enough to own a plasma I had no idea either.

I have been glancing around avsforum today but have so far been unsuccessful in finding an answer.

Any plasma owners on this forum that might be able to help? Feel free to contact me via email if you dont want to clutter up the forum with this off-topic subject. [abcward@yahoo.com]

Thanks!!

I think what your friend is looking for is the ROKU HD1000 digital media player: http://www.rokulabs.com

It's about $300 for the unit + the cost of the media. They are a forum sponsor as well.

abc,

I think the idea of artwork screensavers is clever, but personally I would recommend against it unless your friend is made of money and has no problem in replacing his expensive plasma screen on a regular basis.

Plasmas are very, very susceptible to burn in and even the not-entirely-static crawlers on CNN and CNBC pose a long-term risk of permanently scarring plasma displays.

Changing the selected artwork in brief intervals would definitely mitigate the risk, and I'd suggest absolutely no more than 90 seconds for any static image. If it were my plasma, I'd also want to make very certain that the rotation of the images was fail-safe -- if the device hangs up and leaves a single image on the screen unattended for hours on end, it won't be pretty (or at least not for long).

While this will no doubt sound like a case of unenlightened self-interest, your friend should also seek out a calibrator (or someone with a color analyzer or spectraradiometer) who can measure and gauge a safe maximum light level. In my own experience with plasma displays, even with contrast at the center point in the user menus, many of these panels are pumping out more than 75 footlamberts of peak light, versus a recommended range of 25 to 35 fL.

The higher the maximum light level, the higher the risk of burn-in -- even with regular rotation of the images.

Hey everybody, question about this service. Im trying to figure out if this is the best bang for my buck.

I am looking for a satellite tv service. I just want the 60 channels, HD channels, and maybe a MLB Ticket (if there is such a thing).

- How much will this run?
- Do I have to use their HD reciever? If not, would you recommend a different one?
- If i have my phone service, DSL, and Satellite thorugh them, wouldn't you think they could offer me a nice package, since I would be using all of their services?

Thanks guys. Keep up the good work.

Walt Nichol came through soon after I e-mailed him. I should have e-mailed sooner ;)

Seriously though, had anyone else contacted him about this? Surely it was a coincidence--they had to have known already this was a problem.

Originally posted by redwine
Speaking of DD5.1 I noticed KMOV no longer sends out a bogus 5.1 like they did a few weeks ago.

KBryant888, I believe SBC does have that all in one package for about $125 a month taxes and fees are on top of that. Don't know if Dish offers the MLB package, I do believe there is such a thing.

Originally posted by redwine
Speaking of DD5.1 I noticed KMOV no longer sends out a bogus 5.1 like they did a few weeks ago.

As someone who's been bitching about this for months, let me just say....

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!

Looking forward to late March/early April when my HD DirecTivo will arrive and I'll have HD again (sold my Sony HD100 on eBay last week to pay for it).

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
As someone who's been bitching about this for months, let me just say....

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!



Maybe I'm misunderstanding but part of this could be due to CBS HQ in New York upgrading the system for 5.1 delivery. I thought I'd seen some posts in the "main" HDTV forum from CBS' Bob Ross about this. Maybe the affilicates are having to upgrade their audio hardware in preparation?

Originally posted by abcward
Maybe Charter isnt to blame, but Dish and DirecTV had the game on in St.Louis, so something is weird when its only Charter customers get screwed tonight.

I sent my usual "what the hell went wrong" e-mail to Charter Tuesday night inquiring about why the Blues game was not on HDNet. I also asked when ESPN-HD would be added. I received a response back this morning stating that HDNet screwed it up, not Charter. As usual, they did not provide me any feedback as to when ESPN-HD would be added.:mad:

Originally posted by rbkb
I sent my usual "what the hell went wrong" e-mail to Charter Tuesday night inquiring about why the Blues game was not on HDNet. I also asked when ESPN-HD would be added. I received a response back this morning stating that HDNet screwed it up, not Charter. As usual, they did not provide me any feedback as to when ESPN-HD would be added.:mad:

OK. Someone at HDNet did not flip a switch. Charter had two hours to make a simple phone call and calmly ask HDNet to flip the switch. Was this phone call even attempted? I am sure Charter was notified by several customers that the game was not on.

I want the truth even though I probably can't handle the truth. :(

LOL @ redwine

Hey guys, just found this St. Louis thread. Great Charter info...which leads me to my problem. I'm in a new subdivision in St. Charles area (2 years old) and have digital cable/pipeline for a year now. I have a 50" Panasonic plasma, upgraded to Charter HDTV in January (used OTA HD for several months prior) and this HD service is very inconsistent. There is one other HD customer in our subdivision and he has the same problem. Everything works great for a few days, then the HD stations tile... then stops all together. All other digial channels and pipeline continues to work fine, just the HD stations. I have fought them for 2 months now and they can't seem to find the problem. Every connector from the pop at the street to my TV has been replaced. 1 splitter (theirs) inside with a line to the STB. No difference removing the splitter.

Funny thing, they keep telling me one other customer in our division has HD and his works fine...yet I KNOW him and he complains as I do. He tells me they tell him the same thing. I seen the line crews last week out there working on his so I told them I had the same problem. They said to report it. Duh!

Anyone else have any experience with this issue. Last night, HDNET was a complete lock up, 2, 4, 5 all moved a little, then freeze. This morning, all is perfect. This happens every week at some point. Motorola told me it sounds like a line level issue at their head end. There is a 1bd loss from the street to my STB, so that appears fine per Charter. Funny thing, the ONLY reason I went to Charter in the first place was ESPN HD and Discovery HD......Neither one is available in their CORPORATE area. What a bunch of clowns.

Just a FYI - Eventhough Dish's promotion for the free 811 reciever is over, they will give it to you if you ask for it. Got signed up last night for a free 811, free installation and activiation and the HBO, top 120 and the HD package for 56 bucks.

Also, the sales guy and the checkout ( for lack of a better word, you guys know what I mean )guy both stated that Dish is coming out with a new DVR sometime in the next few months that will be able to record over 300 hours and will cost 10 bucks a month extra.

Originally posted by _Arklyte_
Anyone else have any experience with this issue. Last night, HDNET was a complete lock up, 2, 4, 5 all moved a little, then freeze.

I've got Charter as well, and I've got to say I've had absolutely no problems since the first day. I didn't watch a lot of HD last night, but I did watch CBS-DT at 9:00 (I think the show was Without a Trace) and I had no problems.

Does anyone in the local area have Voom? If they do what is their opinion of the service? I am thinking about switching from Charter to Voom now that they have their special offer in effect.

Yeah, I sure would like to know the answer to that too. With less than 2000 customers, there may not be and one of us here may be a guinea pig on somebody's first VOOM install.

Heck, these installers probably got trained months ago and might forget what they learned.

StLouG,

I know that you asked for local feedback, but since there's nothing particularly local about the content of the VOOM service (it's essentially the same in St. Louis as it is in Seattle or Sarasota), here's a good place to get a good overview of customer impressions of the service to date:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=322324

More on VOOM.

Probably bigger than questions about programming or installation competence, the ultimate issue with VOOM is whether they'll be around for the long haul, and if so, in what sort of form:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/voom030404.html

I'm in the same boat with Mr. Glendale--Charter HDTV in Kirkwood has been crystal clear since day one.

On another note, I emailed Charter about ESPN HD, and they said it will be turned on "soon", "maybe within the next month".

Still no information on Discovery HD.

from the research that i did, VOOM does offer lots more HD content, but is sorely lacking on SD channels....no ESPN, etc.

I'll wait....

also consider that VOOM does have lots of HD channels, but from what I've read on other threads it's repetitive eye-candy type stuff- no real content to speak of. Add to that, alot of their material is not native HD, but upconverted SD.

I think DISH or DirecTV would be a much safer bet than VOOM. I'm pretty happy with DirecTV with an SD Tivo in one room and an HD box in the other room. My monthly bill is around $75 for Total Choice, HBO, HD Pkg, TIVO service, and two receivers.

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
More on VOOM.

Probably bigger than questions about programming or installation competence, the ultimate issue with VOOM is whether they'll be around for the long haul, and if so, in what sort of form:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/voom030404.html

If anybody does have Voom who did the installation and how did it go. They are also throwing in a antenna any thoughts on they type and performance? Does anyone have Voom in the St. Louis area?

Re: VOOM

Below is a quote from an ad by Sears for VOOM last month. I would hate to lose Starz, HBO, and Cinemax at any time. They do have a very good offer and I am seriously considering it.

"The Starz, HBO, and Cinemax Plus Packs are provided via satellite capacity that is only temporarily available, our regulatory authority to transmit this programming may expire at any time, and we may be required to cease providing this programming to customers without notice."

Originally posted by StLouG
Does anyone in the local area have Voom? If they do what is their opinion of the service? I am thinking about switching from Charter to Voom now that they have their special offer in effect.

I have Voom and like it. The STB gets all the local St. Louis stations from a 4 bay bow tie antenna. The program guide is easy to use. The quality is good and the isntallation people were very good.

Havn't stopped by in a couple of days and noticed the posts on Plasma burn in. I have a 52" Zenith LCD. Do any of you have any info on LCD burnin? How careful will I need to be?

Sheerluck,

There is no risk of burn-in with an LCD panel or projector.

Originally posted by oby
I'm in the same boat with Mr. Glendale--Charter HDTV in Kirkwood has been crystal clear since day one.

On another note, I emailed Charter about ESPN HD, and they said it will be turned on "soon", "maybe within the next month".

Still no information on Discovery HD.

I just saw that ESPN-HD will be carrying the Big East and Big Ten (or Big 11 if you want to get technical) tournaments apparently in Hi-Def beauty. Of course, with Charter, they probably will activate the feed after March Madness...:mad:

With some luck, we will be able to see ESPN HD Baseball, and watch the Cardinal pitching get outdone by the Cubs and Astros starters...;)

I don't know if anybody has looked at the KMOV website lately, but they now have a program guide for the DT channel (or maybe I just figured out where to look:eek: ). They show that next Saturday and Sunday, March 13 and 14, they will be showing at least the following games in HD...

1. Conference USA finals
2. Big Ten Semi-finals #1
3. Big Ten Semi-finals #2
4. Pac-10 Championship
5. SEC Championship
6. Big Ten Championship

The Road to the Final Four will be HD also, with the exception of the Selection Sunday show. The website also indicated that there would be HD games on the KMOV-DT station for the first and second rounds of the NCAA tournament.

If this actually occurs, I SAY KUDOS TO CBS AND KMOV...leading the way for us HD groupies.:D

This wouldn't help us a lot here, though it might give us earlier access to whatever HD programming UPN comes up with.

That said, it's a great idea and action on it is long overdue.

_____________________________________
From SkyREPORT - 03/08/2004:

DISH Pushes HD Feeds/DTV Transition Issues

Last week, EchoStar took its crusade for satellite-delivered national high-def network feeds to the Federal Communications Commission, asking the agency to consider its proposal to allow HD signals into markets that don't have digital TV capabilities.

In a letter sent to FCC Chairman Michael Powell, attorneys for EchoStar asked the commission to require all network stations that have not constructed digital TV facilities to grant waiver requests that would allow consumers in the relevant DMA to receive an HD feed of the network in question via satellite. The company also asked that all networks that have failed to replicate analog Grade B contours to grant waivers to households predicted as served by the local station TV signal but outside the station's community of license.

EchoStar said the two moves would help the nation's transition to digital TV and ensure the conversion from analog to digital television is received "by as many consumers as possible."

The company added, "The commission's support of distant network HDTV service through exercise of its conditioning authority will ensure that the progress of the digital transition is not halted by holdout stations. Consumers who would otherwise be left in the dark will have access via satellite to the mesmerizing video quality that HDTV brings, which in turn will encourage the purchase of DTV sets and other digital equipment."
_____________________________________

Originally posted by rbkb
I don't know if anybody has looked at the KMOV website lately, but they now have a program guide for the DT channel (or maybe I just figured out where to look:eek: ). They show that next Saturday and Sunday, March 13 and 14, they will be showing at least the following games in HD...

1. Conference USA finals
2. Big Ten Semi-finals #1
3. Big Ten Semi-finals #2
4. Pac-10 Championship
5. SEC Championship
6. Big Ten Championship

The Road to the Final Four will be HD also, with the exception of the Selection Sunday show. The website also indicated that there would be HD games on the KMOV-DT station for the first and second rounds of the NCAA tournament.

If this actually occurs, I SAY KUDOS TO CBS AND KMOV...leading the way for us HD groupies.:D

I saw the same thing on TitanTV and posted something on the HDTV Programming forum:
See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374782)

Not much response.

I have decided to go the HD route in the near future. I am looking for Advice on where to go to research various TV's. I am a current DTV User with a old Proscan Tube looking at a Rear projection TV between 42-60 inches. I am a big sports fan. Does anyone in the kirkwood are have HD cable from Charter ? I ccurrently use D*TV but nosing around the forums have seen some disturbing post.

Thanks for all the help

pjohearne,

welcome. If you're looking for professional reviews on TV's, go to www.ecoustics.com A better bet would be to go to the rear-projection forum here and search through posts looking for insights into any set you are considering.

As far as providers go, I think both sats and cable have their negatives, but they have their positives too. Since you're already a D* sub, you may want to look into their upgrade deal- Officially it's $399 for triple-dish, HD box, and installation. If you look in the HDTV hardware forum you'll see people getting the deal for between $99-$199. The key is to get customer retention department and tell them that cable is offering HD in your area- they seem more willing to deal that way.

good luck.

pjohearne,

If you'd like, feel free to drop me a private message or call me to discuss the pros and cons of the sets you're considering, once you've narrowed down your choices a bit.

I've got quite a lot of hands-on experience with Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Sony, Pioneer, Toshiba and Panasonic sets and would be happy to help answer any questions about those sets and the pros/cons of each.

Originally posted by pjohearne
I have decided to go the HD route in the near future. I am looking for Advice on where to go to research various TV's. I am a current DTV User with a old Proscan Tube looking at a Rear projection TV between 42-60 inches. I am a big sports fan. Does anyone in the kirkwood are have HD cable from Charter ? I ccurrently use D*TV but nosing around the forums have seen some disturbing post.

Thanks for all the help

I'm in the Kirkwood area and just recently upgraded from a 27" CRT with analog cable to a 46" Samsung DLP with Charter HD. I went with Charter because I (more accurately, my wife) am comfortable with cable (and cable high speed internet) and after taking a year to convince her we needed a bigger TV, I didn't want to have to convince her that we have to mount a dish, etc.

I've been very satisfied with Charter, no problems with dropouts, pixelization, etc. in the two weeks I've had it. One other thing to consider in our area is that I have heard from some friends of mine with OTA HD that we are so close to the towers, they have had to go with a roof mount antenna to be able to consistently pick up the local HD channels. I'm sure this depends on your precise location.

To pump up weak TV ratings, NHL pushing transition to HDTV

PITTSBURGH - A playing surface more than twice the size of a basketball court. Rapid and sometimes dizzying player movement on and off the ice. Even greater speed as players chase an elusive object barely larger than the palm of one's hand.

The elements that help make hockey one of the most pleasurable sports to watch in person for millions often don't translate to TV viewers who sample the sport, but don't go back because they simply don't understand what's happening.

Don't think the NHL, saddled with the lowest ratings of the four major pro team sports, isn't listening - and watching.

That's why the league is excited by the gradual but gaining-momentum move to high-definition television, which offers a picture exponentially sharper and more lifelike than that on traditional analog sets.

Complete story: http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/sports/8115994.htm

I don't think Dish's ideas would even help us with UPN. Dish's request is to offer HD in areas where the local affiliate hasn't constructed digital facilities.

Channel 46 here does offer a digital broadcast, it's just a 480i digital broadcast. I don't think we'd get a national HD UPN, even if Dish were allowed to offer it.

Doug's article above about NHL/HDTV mentioned ESPN's HD coverage....speaking of that, has anyone heard when Charter will actually turn on ESPN-HD??

Robert,

You're probably correct. In my own experience in dealing with the waiver process, the stations have a highly evolved sense of creativity as far as waiver denial rationale goes.

But I think the real point, at least as far as this proposal is concerned, is that nobody is going to get excited about 480i digital and rush out and buy an HDTV set. DISH's proposal is focused on how to speed the transition, and I don't think there's any question that HDTV is the key to that.

In any event, I think the odds here are very long that the FCC will lift a finger on this proposal. The FCC never does anything where's there's the slightest possibility of getting broadcasters or cable companies riled. To my mind, that's why we have stupidity like the built-in tuner mandate -- it's much easier for the FCC to push around the predominantly foreign CE manufacturers, rather than taking on the NAB and NCTA and the congressional toadies taking their campaign contributions.

And unfortunately those two industry groups have by far the greatest influence over how fast and how far the digital/HD transition moves.

Originally posted by abcward
Doug's article above about NHL/HDTV mentioned ESPN's HD coverage....speaking of that, has anyone heard when Charter will actually turn on ESPN-HD??

Of all the weeks for Charter to activate the ESPN-HD signal, this would be it. According to ESPN.COM, most of the major conference NCAA basketball tournaments will be shown in HD.

Since the weather is warming up, maybe it is time to get members of this forum to have a gathering at Charter headquarter, get some adult beverages, and protest. :cool: West County needs a picket every once in a while to liven things up.:p :D

I just noticed tonight that KMOV has gotten the 5.1 flag turned off and are now marking the content as DD 2.0. Whether this was a setting at the KMOV end or the network feed I can't say.

The difference is that later generation processors and receivers can apply DPL, DPL-2 or DP-2x. Very nice.

Cheers,

I heard somewhere that DVDs will be in HD quality soon. We will all be buying new DVD players. I have not done any research on this yet. If anyone knows about this please post an overview (maybe I am wrong).

It seems to me that HD / widescreen quality video with movies will be more widely available with this new DVD than on broadcast. Sure the networks will provide some programming but a large availability of HD movies will take a while, especially in St. Louis. I can't get enough of HD quality and will probably buy a player at an exorbitant price as soon as they are available.

Hey Redwine,

As someone who spent $1000 on my first Sony DVD player five years ago that won't even play DVD-R's, another $1000 on Sony's current top model last year, and is about to spend yet another $1000 on the new HD DirecTivo, I'll probably be right behind you in line the day those HD DVD players come out!

SkyREPORT 03/09/2004 - Ergen Defends DISH Move Allowing Viacom Nets to Go Dark

EchoStar CEO Charles Ergen was not optimistic about DISH Network keeping Viacom networks and CBS owned-and-operated channels in certain markets on the satellite TV service, telling viewers of his monthly "Charlie Chat" Monday the programming was set to come down at midnight last night.

And late in the evening, EchoStar said it was left with no choice other than to remove Viacom's owned-and-operated CBS stations and its nationally distributed cable/satellite channels as of midnight Pacific Time. EchoStar made the announcement about the channels going dark at 12:45 a.m. Eastern Tuesday/10:45 p.m. Mountain Time Monday.

During his chat, Ergen said repeatedly the channels "are coming down" since Viacom "refuses to be reasonable" about continued carriage of the programming. "We really have no choice," he said. "It's pretty hard to believe."

In addition to the O&O CBS channels, Viacom networks affected by the programming carriage skirmish include MTV, Nickelodeon, Noggin and VH1, among others. A temporary restraining order issued by a federal court in California keeping Viacom networks on DISH Network expired late last night.

The "Charlie Chat" program contained televised graphics criticizing Viacom, suggesting the programmer wanted $200 million in additional fees and $350 million for channels considered as having low viewership, although the graphics didn't offer specifics. Another graphic said "Viacom refuses to be reasonable."

EchoStar said it would provide a $1 monthly credit to DISH Network customers who lose CBS programming in the following markets with CBS O&O stations: Austin, Boston, Baltimore, Chicago, Dallas-Ft. Worth, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay, Wis., Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, New York, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Salt Lake City and San Francisco.

Customers who had been receiving Viacom's cable/satellite channels on America's Top 60, America's Top 120, America's Top 180, America's Everything Pak, and DISH Latino Max will also receive a $1 monthly credit while the channels are unavailable.

In its statement, EchoStar said Viacom used tactics to demand a re-negotiation of current agreements on other Viacom channels, allowing Viacom to require carriage and higher rates on those channels. "Our goal is to remain the best value for our customers for the lowest price," said Ergen. "To do this, we need fair contracts with competitive pricing that allow DISH Network to select the channels most compatible with the interests of our customers."

Two hours before "Charlie Chat," a MTV Networks spokesperson reiterated the company's stand on the negotiations and EchoStar's opinion on the matter.

The company said while EchoStar has recently raised some rates, all Viacom is asking for is less than an additional 6 cents a month per subscriber for the channels in question. The spokesperson also pointed out that more than 20 percent of U.S. viewers watch Viacom networks, and Viacom networks cost EchoStar less than 5 percent of what the satellite TV company generates from the average customer.

For more information on the loss of Viacom channels, viewers can check: http://www.dishnetwork.com/programming.

TV Company Says O.J. Simpson Stole Signals

By JOHN PAIN
The Associated Press

MIAMI -- Satellite television network DirecTV Inc. has accused former football star O.J. Simpson of using illegal electronic devices to pirate its broadcast signals.

The El Segundo, Calif.-based company wants Simpson to pay at least $20,000 for the use of the equipment and lawyers' fees, according to the lawsuit filed Wednesday at federal court in Miami.

Full Story: http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040309/NEWS/403090340/1004

DISH to lose MTV, VH-1, CBS O&O channels

Doug, is the issue with Viacom only with Dish, or will this problem eventually filter down to Charter and DirecTV also?

MTV, VHI, Nick, and Noggin are some of the most frequently watched channels in my household.

Difficult to say whether this is the tip of the iceberg with DISH.

Viacom, like other programmers including ESPN, have all been looking to boost revenues by raising the fees they charge per subscriber. The problem, I think, is the fact that aggregate subscriber growth is pretty static, but the cost of programming (especially sports rights fees) continues to go up.

But in the end, I think this comes down to a game of chicken. Viacom may want more money per DISH subscriber, but the way things are headed they're not only not going to get an increase -- they'll be getting nothing at all. I don't think their shareholders will sit still for that very long.

Free market capitalism in action.

Whether the Dish vs. Viacom spat affects DirecTV and Charter pretty much won't be known until DirecTV's and Charter's contracts with Viacom come up for renewal. Which will probably be affected by the outcome in dish's situation.

If Viacom caves with Dish and lowers the rates it wants, then there probably won't be a problem with *D and *C, since Viacom probably won't try to charge *D and *C in the first place.

If Dish caves and accepts Viacom's pricing, then we can expect Viacom to ask *D and *C for that same pricing structure at renewal time as well. It will then be up to *D and *C individually whether they accept it or "pull a Charlie."

I'm not an insider or anything, the above is just my thoughts while observing all the goings-on...

Charlie claims he is being asked to pay higher prices than D* and C*. He's lied in the past so who knows...

I thought D* just resigned - but they raised their rates too. E* just raised rates, so they are effectively setting us up for a second rate raise.

There is a lot of interesting going-ons... Charlie is upset about the merger of content/delivery companies (News Corp/DirecTV, Comcast/Disney, etc) so he is fighting back. Its been theorized, and he's helped feed the fire, that he is about done - and looking for a content company to buy E*. Its been hinted at that this is a ploy to force Viacom into buying E* (there were recent talks between the companies...)

Chris

Let me add to the 'piling on' mentality vs. Charter.

How frustrating it is to have an HDTV monitor, have HDTV service with Charter, know that Charter & ESPN have a contract in place to offer ESPN-HD to us Charter customers, and see all the NCAA basketball games offered on ESPN-HD this month...

... and realize that we wont get to see any of it on HD.

Frustrating.

I am a Charter customer in MA, serviced by the Pepperell, MA head end, and saw ESPN-HD last night for the first time!

It appeared to be a trial run, as the guide had no programming info available. I don't know if it is on your system yet in St. Louis, but if not hopefully soon.

I thought you St. Louis folks might like that feedback from another Charter subscriber somewhere else in the country.

Dave

I recently purchased a 50 inch plasma and had charter hook up HDTV
on Saturday. My wife and I were watching Raymond last night and
the picture sometimes was pixelated and the sound would drop out.
Has anyone else experienced this with their HD service ?

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
I saw the same thing on TitanTV and posted something on the HDTV Programming forum:
See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374782)

Not much response.

I just got the following response from KMOV when I asked if all the NCAA major conference tournament games were going to be in HD this weekend like Titan TV stated:

"At this point only the final four and the championship game will be in HD. There may be a few select match-ups that will be in HD, but that has not been determined."

Oh no...no HD this weekend...what a pity, considering ESPN is utilizing HD cameras for the first and second round of the Big Ten Tournament on Thursday and Friday. Wouldn't you think that CBS would utilize these cameras??? From what I understand, these cameras are actually a third party's, not ESPN's. Come on, CBS....GIMME HDTV NCAA BASKETBALL!!!

Oh yeah, and CHARTER: GIVE ME ESPN-HD!!!!

Originally posted by ely123
I recently purchased a 50 inch plasma and had charter hook up HDTV
on Saturday. My wife and I were watching Raymond last night and
the picture sometimes was pixelated and the sound would drop out.
Has anyone else experienced this with their HD service ?

Ely123:

I have noticed some pixelation on the CBS HD feed carried by Charter. I also have problems with the 5.1 audio dropping out. When the 5.1 flag is off, the drop-outs are not nearly as bad. I don't have the pixelation with NBC HD, FOX ED, or HDNet. I do have some issues with HBO-HD. I don't know if it is Charter, or HBO/CBS.

For those of you who have Charter and are interested in their DVR here is a link to their site that talks about it some. http://charter.net/dvr/ . Not sure when it's going to be available here in St. Louis, but apparently it's starting to come out in a few other markets.

A Charter CSR told me last week that ESPN HD should be turned on "in a month, maybe sooner".


Starz just announced another HD channel--Encore HD. I hope Charter gets both Starz HD and Encore HD.


I am also hoping for Discovery HD, and the ABC HD feed. Than, I will be happy camper.

call up Charter and talk to another CSR - you'll get a totally different story. I think we are more in tune than they are.

I worked for an Internet networking start-up company a couple of years ago that folded. We built a national fiber optic backbone network. The promise of unlimited bandwidth for the future was our mantra. The last mile was always the problem.

I was hoping by now to have fiber connections to my house from a company like Charter. This would solve most of the technical issues to allow as many HD channels as desired, even HD on demand. The problems now seem to be all politics and money. This is probably also why that company folded a couple of years ago.

Greed is getting in the way of our HD enjoyment.

Hi guys I have a few questions for you. I have an appointment to get E* installed next week, in light of the recent events I don't think I will be going with them anymore. Namely, b/c my children would be furious with the fact that 2 of their favorite channels are gone. So my questions are these.

1. Being I haven't gotten the install yet, am I legally bound to E*? I have signed nothing, other than payed the install fee but have not gotten it done yet.

2. If I go with D*, can you recommend a HD reciever to go with? I don't think they are offering one for free unfortuanatly.

I realize I could call E* and ask them number 1, but I would rather get a 3rd party opinion before calling them b/c I am sure they would say yes I am bound.

Very frustrating to say the least:mad:

I believe you're not contractually bound to *E until the installer arrives (he brings the contract with him).

Where I work we sell the $49.99 activations for Dish (we sell them for $29.99), and we've given a few refunds on those little "certificates" when the installer hasn't put in the equipment yet.