St. Louis, MO - HDTV *OLD* [Text View] - Page 41

Joseph Clark

01-21-06, 01:26 AM

Thanks Joe. I'm not familar with the term fringing. Can you elaborate a little please? What DLP do you have and how's the fan noise?

Um and sisters! Not just our brothers. ;)

Btw, I know the new DLP's are due out next month or two but they will be at a premium price. Until someone bursts my bubble, I think I got a heck of a deal on both the set and DVR.

When three tubes or chips are used to create an image (one for each of the primary colors - red, green, blue) they have to overlap precisely on the screen for the image to be perfectly sharp. Unfortunately, almost no devices can overlap exactly, so that you end up with color fringing. Picture a series of white stripes running up and down the screen. At some point, unless convergence is perfect, you will see white lines with red or green or blue outlines on either side, where the chips or tubes didn't overlap exactly. On tube sets, sometimes the misconvergence can be severe - you see colored ghosts instead of a solid image (that's when you really need a calibration). Single chip DLP uses tiny mirrors (representing each pixel) to project the red, green and blue parts of the image onto the screen one after the other, from the same mirror, so convergence is never an issue. However, this succession of RGB images is what creates "rainbows" and they are what some people find objectionable about single chip DLP. If you move your eyes quickly from one part of the screen to another, you perceive the separate RGB parts of the color image as distinct "rainbows." For me it's a non-issue, since my perception of rainbows disappears quickly, and many never see them at all. There are ways of training yourself to see them, but my advice to people is don't try. Be happy if you don't see them, and if you do chances are your brain will mask them very quickly anyway.

My bad on the "brothers" comment. It's a cultural bias borne of rarely seeing a woman's name on one of these threads. I like to see women posting in this and other forums I frequent, but it just doesn't happen that often.

Be happy with your purchase. Sounds like you got a good deal. The fun is just beginning.

Joseph Clark

01-21-06, 01:34 AM

Looking for some advice on a universal remote. Thinking of the Harmony 880 or the Osiris MX-350. I've got a Yamaha RX-V2500-Sony KDS-R50XBR1- D*HR10-250- Sony NS55V DVD player- Oppo OPVD971H- Polk XRt12 XM Tuner - Technics CD player. Will these remotes do ALL the functions that the original remotes will do. Any advice on these two or any others would be appreciated.

Don't know about the Osiris, but I love the Harmony 659 that I own. The 880 should be able to display all the commands for the devices you named. If it doesn't, you can easily teach it the ones it missed (although I think it unlikely you will find omissions). I've owned a variety of universal remotes, including Sony and Pronto, and they all pale compared to the Harmony, for me. Some swear by Pronto, but I love the number of hard buttons on the Harmony. It's just right to cover all the most frequently used commands, and you can customize several buttons that you use most. I can use the Harmony in the dark without even having to see what I'm doing most of the time.

MoInSTL

01-21-06, 01:46 AM

Joseph Clark

01-21-06, 02:55 AM

Thanks again Joe. Good info. I don't want to hunt for the rainbows. I need to go watch Battlestar Galactica and stop reading the HLR forums. Noticed peeps in other forums are pointing out the SSE effect and "during dark scenes is horribly pixelated".

Oh my.

My "deal" on the TV ended up only being $136 below the CC sale price. But I'm satisfied as it was my price point. D* I know is a great deal.

I hate being a noob. In some PC hardware forums I am the one posting advice, tips and suggestions. It makes we women look bad when we are such noobs. But I'm not clueless so I'll catch on. ;)

You didn't answer about fan noise Joe...

I don't own the Samsung. I own an Optoma H79 front projector, whose fan is almost silent. I just like single chip DLP in general.

Which PC forums do you frequent?

As for being a noob, we're all noobs in most areas. In my immediate circle of family and friends, I'm THE home theater and PC guru. As soon as I set foot in some of the AVS threads, I feel like a baby just starting to walk among a group of Olympic athletes. I feel pretty confident they might feel the same way in some of my other areas of relative expertise.

NewinTown

01-21-06, 07:23 AM

From today's Post Dispatch:

Media Views: Viewers won't see Super Bowl in HD
By Dan Caesar
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Saturday, Jan. 21 2006

You've spent what amounts to a mortgage payment, or more, on a high definition
television set. You're opening the wallet for cable television service, the
price of which keeps rising.

But you don't mind, at least on Super Bowl Sunday. You'll be inviting the gang
to come over and see ABC's telecast of the big game, in a couple of weeks, on
your crystal-clear screen.

Well, the party may be over before it starts.

Charter Communications, which provides the service for more than 90 percent of
the homes in the St. Louis market that purchase cable television, does not
carry the HD version of ABC's local affiliate. The reason is that Sinclair
Broadcasting, which owns KDNL (Channel 30), is demanding to be paid for
allowing Charter to carry it.

"Sinclair's position is we don't give away our signal, particularly our digital
signal," company general counsel Barry Faber said. "Sinclair's position is that
they're going to pay us" for the signal.

Charter is fighting that.

"Charter stands ready, able and more than willing to carry Sinclair's HD
signal" for free, Charter spokeswoman Anita Lamont said. "But ... Sinclair has
refused to consent to our carriage of that signal. All the station would have
to do would be to give us a thumbs up, even just for the Super Bowl, and we
would be able to offer it."

However, the Super Bowl is a huge bargaining chip in the dispute, and relenting
for that game by Sinclair is highly unlikely.

"If something happens between now and the Super Bowl between us and Charter, I
would be very surprised," KDNL general manager Tom Tipton said. "I don't see it
happening."

Tipton added that viewers who buy satellite TV also will not get the game in HD
- but that's because no high definition programming by any St. Louis station is
on satellite yet.

The Charter-Sinclair feud is at the corporate, not local, levels.

"The local stations have the responsibility for reaching retransmission
agreements in their respective markets," ABC Sports spokesman Mark Mandel said.
"While we regret that some cable viewers cannot get access ... this is an issue
for KDNL and the cable system to resolve."

Changing policy

KSDK (Channel 5) officials would not discuss their deal with Charter, but
executives at the other local major network affiliate stations said they give
Charter their HD feed for free. However, that could change.

"A lot of people are going in that direction," one executive said.

In fact, Sinclair's Faber said it won't be long before his company begins
charging cable systems for its conventional signal, too.

"It used to be that our position was we don't give away our digital signal," he
said. "Our new position - we just haven't gotten around to enforcing it against
everybody yet - is we don't give away our signal, period.

"Eventually, it'll get to the level of, 'Do you want to carry KDNL, yes or no?'
It costs Charter money (for stations) like Animal Planet. I think more people
want to watch KDNL than Animal Planet."

Cable companies have balked at paying for local stations, using the rationale
that they already are floating through the air, so the cable companies should
be able to retransmit them for free.

"Sounds like a good argument," Faber said. "But the problem is that it is a
free over-the-air signal if you want to receive it free over the air. But if
you prefer to receive it in a more convenient fashion (via cable), you pay for
it. Right now, we don't get any of that money."

"We do care about viewers; we don't make any money if we don't satisfy them,"
he added. "But for us, it's fundamental fairness. One of the reasons people
write (Charter) a check every month is so they can watch KDNL. If you're a
Charter cable subscriber, that's part of what you're paying for."

HDTV, for a price

Tipton said people who own an HD set don't have to be shut out, albeit for a
price.

"If you have an antenna, you can get our signal in high definition on HD
Channel 31," Tipton said.

However, an HD turner is required in addition to the antenna, resulting in an
outlay of up to several hundred dollars in additional equipment for those who
lack the hardware. That's hardly an appealing situation for people already
paying $50 a month or more for Charter.

How does the over-the-air HD signal compare to the one on cable?

"On the antenna it's very good, it's quite good," Tipton said. "To say which
one's better, I don't know. Because we've never had an agreement with Charter,
I've never had an opportunity to look at it."

jdiehl

01-21-06, 09:58 AM

Whether Sinclair/KDNL likes it or not, this article just spells it out pretty plainly for the uninformed Charter HD customers (thinking of my in-laws who barely noticed that they weren't getting ABC-HD until I pointed it out and after 2yrs of not being around had to reteach them how to use their OTA input on the HDTV)..... that your local ABC affliate is wanting to extract more money out of you (indirectly) for watching their HD signal on any pay TV service. It doesn't matter that every other local station gives Charter their signal to carry for free, and that most will probably do the same for DirecTV when the time comes later this year or next, but KDNL wants to charge Charter (while no other's do), which will ultimately get passed straight to you, the end user.

I wonder if the same thing applies to their analog signal? Is Charter having to pay to carry the analog version of KDNL?

With this being the last Super Bowl on ABC for the forseeable future (with MNF moving to NBC and ESPN taking over Sunday night football), I can't think of any other major broadcast that would have HDTV owners clamoring to get the ABC-HD signal on their cable box. Certainly nothing worthy of writing a newspaper article over. If this doesn't happen before Super Bowl XL, I wouldn't keep the hope up that it would ever happen (for free anyway).

John Kotches

01-21-06, 10:11 AM

Jon,

It said very clearly that the analog signal is currently free, but that it likely would not remain free.

In fact, Sinclair's Faber said it won't be long before his company begins
charging cable systems for its conventional signal, too.

Regards,

DroptheRemote

01-21-06, 10:35 AM

Jon,

It said very clearly that the analog signal is currently free, but that it likely would not remain free.

Regards,Two things are puzzling about this part of the story:

* One, it is my understanding that the FCC long ago mandated that the local stations had to provide a feed to the local cable company at no charge. To be honest, I've never actually seen this in writing, so maybe it's just one of those urban myths that has been passed down and around until it took on the look of truth.

* Second, how is that KDNL is going to charge for an analog feed when the analog signal will be going away in a few years? I suppose they could try to extract some payment in the short term, but it seems to me that only alienates the cable distributors further.

At the end of the day, KDNL and its sister Sinclair stations have much more to lose in viewers than they have to gain in cable carriage fees. Because HD penetration is so low at the moment, this is a non-issue, but as more and more people move to digital television through cable, the KDNL viewership will inevitably decline (even with the presence of a free analog fee -- as we well know, viewers are quickly spoiled by HD quality and many simply won't bother with SD).

If the KDNL viewer numbers continue to decline, that will ultimately impact advertising rates, at which point Sinclair negotiating leverage completely vanishes.

I think Sinclair is "drawing dead" with Charter. As every day passes, the advantage in these negotiations moves further in Charter's direction.

jdiehl

01-21-06, 11:13 AM

Jon,

It said very clearly that the analog signal is currently free, but that it likely would not remain free.

Regards,

Thanks, I must have skimmed past that. Seems like a double standard. They'll give away the analog signal, but not the digital signal? Oh well, I'm happy to have DirecTV and I'm debating if I'll want Charter even for my ISP again. I just hope that I can pull in an OTA signal without much issue from the Winghaven/O'Fallon area when we get moved back to St. Louis in 6 weeks.

sandblaster

01-21-06, 11:15 AM

The speculation is it will be 2007 before the HD-Tivo would be obsolete due to the MPEG4 implementation.

I believe the OTA would still work without D*, but there would be no program guide which would make it almost useless.

And yes, it can record two OTA at the same time.

Mike
Why exactly do you say the HD-Tivo will be obsolete? True, once D* transitions all of it's HD channels to MPEG-4, you'll no longer be able to receive HD channels from D* but the HD-Tivo should still work fine for D*'s SD channels and OTA digitial channels, yes? And as long as you have your HD-Tivo registered as an active receiver, you'll get program guide info, which I would think should still include your OTA channels.

Displaced Husker

01-21-06, 11:18 AM

So do you think Best Buy is sold out of antennas yet?

wallyj

01-21-06, 11:48 AM

I bought the DB8 from them, I even called and talked to them later on about issues I was having. My only regret was that after I ordered and got my equipment shipped to me I found out they were in the area......... I would have just drove and picked it up.

djearl81 wrote: I'd definitely recommend them, and have, to anyone that is looking for an antenna. Although they are local, they won't allow you to stop in and pick up the antenna. They are strictly mail order(, or at least they were last November.)

True about what DJ said. I'd call the though. When I bought my DB4 I called first to see if I could pick it up and they are only the home office, but they did have a DB4 in the office for a "photo shoot". The DB4 works great in St. Chuck off Harvester Rd. and can double for a cookie cooling rack!

NewinTown

01-21-06, 11:56 AM

Changing policy

KSDK (Channel 5) officials would not discuss their deal with Charter, but
executives at the other local major network affiliate stations said they give
Charter their HD feed for free. However, that could change.

"A lot of people are going in that direction," one executive said.

In fact, Sinclair's Faber said it won't be long before his company begins
charging cable systems for its conventional signal, too.

Seems to me that Charter may be paying KSDK for their HD feed, since the KSDK official wouldn't answer the question directly. Such an ambigous answer leads me to be suspicious, especially when another executive is quoted as saying "a lot of people are going in that direction".

Joseph Clark

01-21-06, 12:38 PM

I also have never seen the "must carry" law in writing, but I believe it exists. Perhaps the FCC could help things here if it reminded local affiliates that if they want to play hard ball about being paid for their signal, the government might make them pay for the slice of pie they're getting to broadcast their signal to the local community. If they want to get paid for their signal, shouldn't they have to pay for the bandwidth to broadcast it?

Two things are puzzling about this part of the story:

* One, it is my understanding that the FCC long ago mandated that the local stations had to provide a feed to the local cable company at no charge. To be honest, I've never actually seen this in writing, so maybe it's just one of those urban myths that has been passed down and around until it took on the look of truth.

* Second, how is that KDNL is going to charge for an analog feed when the analog signal will be going away in a few years? I suppose they could try to extract some payment in the short term, but it seems to me that only alienates the cable distributors further.

At the end of the day, KDNL and its sister Sinclair stations have much more to lose in viewers than they have to gain in cable carriage fees. Because HD penetration is so low at the moment, this is a non-issue, but as more and more people move to digital television through cable, the KDNL viewership will inevitably decline (even with the presence of a free analog fee -- as we well know, viewers are quickly spoiled by HD quality and many simply won't bother with SD).

If the KDNL viewer numbers continue to decline, that will ultimately impact advertising rates, at which point Sinclair negotiating leverage completely vanishes.

I think Sinclair is "drawing dead" with Charter. As every day passes, the advantage in these negotiations moves further in Charter's direction.

sconstan

01-21-06, 01:05 PM

Looking for some advice on a universal remote. Thinking of the Harmony 880 or the Osiris MX-350. I've got a Yamaha RX-V2500-Sony KDS-R50XBR1- D*HR10-250- Sony NS55V DVD player- Oppo OPVD971H- Polk XRt12 XM Tuner - Technics CD player. Will these remotes do ALL the functions that the original remotes will do. Any advice on these two or any others would be appreciated.

I have the Home Theater Master MX-700 which came bundled with my Surround Sound processor. I am absolutely thrilled with its performance, ease of use and programming features. It has the remote codes many units pre-programmed. I am currently controlling 7 different units with it. I only had an issue with one unit, an older Classe pre-amplifier and that is because of the bizarre way Classe did things. For the same button, they alternate the code so there is actually two codes for each button.

Steve

RaceTripper

01-21-06, 01:12 PM

I have the Home Theater Master MX-700 which came bundled with my Surround Sound processor. I am absolutely thrilled with its performance, ease of use and programming features. It has the remote codes many units pre-programmed. I am currently controlling 7 different units with it. I only had an issue with one unit, an older Classe pre-amplifier and that is because of the bizarre way Classe did things. For the same button, they alternate the code so there is actually two codes for each button.
I'm also using the MX700 and agree it's a great remote. And it's a lot cheaper now than it used to be. You can get it for around $175 now.

Robert Simandl

01-21-06, 02:08 PM

My memory is pretty vague (so what's new, huh?) since this was back in the mid 80's...

But I seem to remember the rules being...

The stations could charge the cable companies for their analog signal, with the cable companies having the right to say "up yours" if the rates were too high...

BUT if no agreement could be reached, the station could insist on "must-carry"... meaning the cable company would HAVE to carry their signal but not have to pay for it.

There were several cable companies in the St. Louis area at the time, and basically none of them agreed to pay a dime for the local stations... so most went for must-carry.

I do remember part of the deal for cable companies carrying Fox O&O stations (including KTVI here) was that they also start carrying the then-new FX channel. I think this was how the cable companies here got KTVI without having to pay cash for it, and without KTVI resorting to must-carry.

Again, this was nearly 20 years ago, so I could be wrong.

From the article, it looks like Sinclair might start rocking the boat as far as their analog station status goes. I agree with Doug that with the coming analog shutdown, they'll have an even harder time getting a dime for their analog signal than they're having now with the digital signal. Especially since Sinclair doesn't own any cable FX-type channels to bargain with.

A few months back when CBS split from the Viacom cable channels, some executive at CBS flat out stated CBS would start charging cable/satellite companies for its O&O's signal as contracts come up for renewal.

I'd say no matter who you pay for your cable channels, whether it's Charter, E*, or *D, an antenna is going to be essential the next few years......

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 03:47 PM

What makes you think Julie Bowen is gone? The way Lost dances with characters across time and space, Julie could be just around the next tree. I don't think we've seen the last of her.

I certainly hope you're right. I fell in love with her in "Ed." It was really the best reason to watch the show. I thought she was the most beautiful woman on TV in years. But, I can't watch her on Boston Legal, even though she does look great in HD (something I never saw her in during Ed's run.)

Having her on LOST made my 2nd favorite show even better.

hall316

01-21-06, 04:04 PM

Is the hockey game on NBC in HD? Did ksdk mess up?

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 04:08 PM

I guess you could say that since I can watch the game on 6 different cannnels. :p

Scott

And how is it that you do that, again?

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 04:25 PM

Quick question for all of you. Tonight (or early tomorrow) I am going to my parents' house and fixing their setup for HDTV w/ surround sound. Since I was able to get the antenna in my attic (that came w/ the house I bought) working much better than my Silver Sensor did, I gave that to my parents. They're able to pull in FOX and CBS pretty well, with the occassional strong signal of ABC and NBC, but all they really care about is sports to see in HD, so CBS and FOX work great.

But, I have to connect their TV to the surround sound receiver so they can get the 5.1 surround. Here's the problem. THeir receiver only has two Toslink inputs and they'rre both already being used, by the DVD player and their SD TiVo and their Sony HDTV only has a Toslink output.

The only option is to change the DVD player from a Toslink output to the SS receiver to a coaxial one. I have been told that to carry a digital audio signal from a coaxial cable, just about any cable will work. Is this true?

What type of cable will really work? Should I just go and buy them one from WalMart or Radio Shack or something? They'd be really excited to get surround sound for the champsionship games this weekend and I want to make sure I get it to work for them.

Thanks!

DroptheRemote

01-21-06, 04:36 PM

Winston,

I think there may be a shortcut to solving your dilemma.

You say the SD TiVo is connected via Toslink...if that's correct, you should swap that out for analog (left/right) stereo. There may be a few standard definition stations with multi-channel digital audio soundtracks, but I think these are primarily limited to a select few PPV movie channels on satellite/cable.

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 04:44 PM

Doug, they're not getting any benefit from the digital signal when they watch "24" on FOX or any of those other SD shows?

DroptheRemote

01-21-06, 04:48 PM

Winston,

No -- those shows originate as analog NTSC over-the-air (though they're typically delivered via cable or satellite) and there's no way to carry multi-channel digital audio via those signals...

DroptheRemote

01-21-06, 04:52 PM

Robert,

I got around to downloading and installing the Gaim multi-format chat application the other night. Compared to Trillian, Gaim is a gem.

I just wanted to thank you for pointing this one out.

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 05:20 PM

Robert,

I got around to downloading and installing the Gaim multi-format chat application the other night. Compared to Trillian, Gaim is a gem.

I just wanted to thank you for pointing this one out.

I guess I'm going to have to try this out myself. If it has all the features of Trillian, but loads faster, I'm going to jump ship myself.

Also, thanks for the info regarding the SD TiVo for my parents. I had NO idea that was the case. I really thought they were getting some type of advantage there.

Just for future reference, however, whats' the deal with a coaxial digital cable?

Robert Simandl

01-21-06, 05:48 PM

There are probably a few features missing in GAIM that Trillian has, since GAIM is a much smaller program. Does Trillian let you send/receive webcam feeds? GAIM doesn't.

No sweat, Doug.

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 06:01 PM

Antenna's Direct is advertising VERY heavily today on CBS during the NCAA basketball broadcasts.

kdg454

01-21-06, 06:40 PM

I also have never seen the "must carry" law in writing, but I believe it exists.
IIRC, and if I'm thinking of the same thing, the "Must Carry" legislation was part of some Consumer Protection Act, sometime in the early 90's. But I think "Must Carry" referred to local TV stations being able demand cable carriage, and not cable providers being able to demand carriage of local signals.
I recall reading a supreme court case about this.
Again, IIRC, the early 90's Consumer Protection Act was enacted, then challenged in the supreme court, and eventually, I think around 1996 or 1997, upheld by the court. The vote was close, and there was a huge debate on the issue.
It has something to do with the case of TBS v. FCC.
Anyone else remember?
I'll see if I can find the article again.

EDIT: HERE (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA404902.html?display=Search+Results&text=Blackmun&referral=supp) is the article I read

jimglobe

01-21-06, 06:42 PM

I have Charter and it really sticks they won't pay for ABC. They are going to have to pay for it and all the channels eventually. I heard the CBS Chairman say the other day they won't be giving away their content for free much longer either. The fact is these media companies are in business to make money, not give their content away for free. It is ridiculous of Charter or anyone else to think they should.

Now, my problem on watching the SuperBowl in HD. I have an old antenea on my roof. If I get an HD receiver will that work?? or does my antenea have to be HD?

Robert Simandl

01-21-06, 06:59 PM

But I think "Must Carry" referred to local TV stations being able demand cable carriage, and not cable providers being able to demand carriage of local signals.

kdg,

I believe you're 100% correct on this, as the whole thing gets a little less fuzzy.... stations that weren't getting paid for their signal by the cable companies could call for must-carry so they'd at least be seen. But there was no provision for the cablecos to demand must-carry if a fee couldn't be agreed upon.

So the way it pretty much worked was, cablecos didn't agree to pay anything (other than for the KTVI arrangement) and stations all went for must-carry because they wanted their signals on cable.

Now apparently Sinclair is gonna try to dump the must-carry arrangement and demand payment when their current contracts are up. At least if I'm reading the article right. I hope Charter refuses.

Displaced Husker

01-21-06, 07:11 PM

jimglobe

01-21-06, 07:27 PM

Charter is in business to make money too. They won't be paying the fees we will.

I know we will, but that is the reality. I would love to have everything for free but somehow that just isn't realistic. Charter will have to pay for ABC and all of them eventually. They may have to drop some of the 50 odd obscure channels that nobody cares about or watches. I can assure you that the cable companies will lose this battle.

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 07:54 PM

Or you won't, at least if you have the option of OTA.

MoInSTL

01-21-06, 08:01 PM

Just got a call that my delivery is between 10-12 tomorrow. Glad it's not in the late afternoon. Weather report is: Partly sunny, then rain.

My Mits is gone and my youngest sister is quite happy with it. My new stand is built and my 32" Panny for X-Box is on it. Moved all of my furniture out the way, rolled up a large area rug and moved all my components out of the way to my home office except for my D* DVR.

Managed to locate a Zenith locally thanks to jdonigan's saying he had one for sale. My sister stopped on her way over to get the Mits & to pick up the Zenith. She lives within walking distance of jdonigan so the Gods may be with me and I just might get OTA tomorrow. I can't wait! I really want to watch the Olympics in HD if I can.

WinstonSmith

01-21-06, 08:13 PM

Olympics, heck, you might see the league championship games in HD tomorrow!

audiolocator

01-21-06, 08:24 PM

KDNL broadcasting in 5.1 tonight. :D when did this start?

MoInSTL

01-21-06, 08:35 PM

Olympics, heck, you might see the league championship games in HD tomorrow!

Football? I watch the Super Bowl for the commercials...lol. I am not a big sports fan but even being gone 30 years I am still a Cards fan.

Crossing my fingers on the OTA but my house is practically on the runway!

kdg454

01-21-06, 09:04 PM

Football? I watch the Super Bowl for the commercials...lol. I am not a big sports fan but even being gone 30 years I am still a Cards fan.

Crossing my fingers on the OTA but my house is practically on the runway!
League Championships??
Olympics??
Super Bowl Commercials??

What about the news in HD on KSDK...is that not what we're all waiting for??

no?? :D

Good luck Mo, I'm sure it'll all work out just fine :)

DroptheRemote

01-21-06, 09:17 PM

I confirm I'm getting 5.1 on KDNL's current broadcast -- "Enemy of the State."

Even better, I'm getting a clear and steady KDNL signal for the first time in a couple of weeks.

However, I'm doubtful my recent KDNL reception issues were related to the work to implement 5.1 sound. In fact, when I checked the signal strength on my HD-TiVo this evening, I found that I'm getting 72 on tuner #1 but only 15 on tuner #2. I assume this indicates a weak signal that is being weakened further by the internal splitting of the ANT input on the TiVo.

Has anyone else noticed this sort of thing (significantly weaker strength on tuner #2 vs tuner #1) with HD TiVo?

audiolocator

01-21-06, 09:48 PM

not sure if i need to reboot my 942, but the 5.1 on KDNL is 1 second behind the picture. As long as it's fixed by the superbowl, i can live with it for now

Joseph Clark

01-21-06, 10:07 PM

Doug, they're not getting any benefit from the digital signal when they watch "24" on FOX or any of those other SD shows?

Doug's right, of course, but just so you know, Radio Shack carries a little box for about $15 that allows you to input any coax or Toslink digital signal, switch between them and output both coax and Toslink from the other side (both at the same time). I use them for sending digital audio to different places in my house, as well as converting, when I need to.

moman19

01-21-06, 10:14 PM

not sure if i need to reboot my 942, but the 5.1 on KDNL is 1 second behind the picture. As long as it's fixed by the superbowl, i can live with it for now

Ditto on my 811. Sounds great. All 6 channels are pumping. But the delay is real bad.

We're almost there.......................

BudShark

01-22-06, 12:02 AM

So here's where I am at after the fiasco that was January for the satellite companies...

Everyone's raising rates (D*, E* c*). Nobody has the bandwidth, focus, or intention to bring us high quality HD channels from all providers. And there is questions regarding all of the new equipment.

FIOS isn't in St. Louis, SBC/AT&T won't have their stuff anytime soon, USDTV hasn't announced St. Louis plans. In an audit of our TV viewing - we watch less than 10hrs of non-local TV anyways...

So I'm thinking of ditching my $75+ D* bill and going it OTA. I've got my eyes on a Sony HDD250 (can't give up recording OTA). I think I can get it for $400.. which if I sell my HDTivo for $200 (low ebay price)... it'll be paid for in 2+ months and every month after that is a savings of $75.

The only thing I'm missing is ESPN - but I care more about content than quality for baseball, so I can go spend $99 for a year of MLB.TV.

The point/question is - has anyone else just walked away from pay TV and used DVD rentals/purchases, online content, and OTA to satisfy your entertainment? How did it work - what did you miss? I'm about ready to pull the trigger and sit on the sidelines until I can actually pay just for the stuff I want.

Chris

audiolocator

01-22-06, 12:05 AM

if I ditched dish, i'd miss HBO and SHO HD channels-- thats about it. Everything else I watch is OTA. But once Blu-Ray and HD-DVD hit, i probably wont be watching HBO and SHO HD as much...

black_macleod

01-22-06, 12:18 AM

Gary_Kreie

01-22-06, 12:19 AM

So do you think Best Buy is sold out of antennas yet?

This week I bought a cheap bow-tie indoor wire antenna at Radio Shack for $4.00. It does a great job of picking up KDNL HD. Since my TV has an antenna button on the remote, it is easy to switch to 30.1 from the C784, C785, etc. channels. I have 30.1 and 9.1 in my list of favorite, and it works like a cable channel.

I tried an amplified indoor antenna earlier but it didn't always lock in. I think we are so close to the transmitter here, you can use any cheap UHF antenna if you point it right.

Tom Grooms

01-22-06, 12:21 AM

Hope this is okay to post this in here as I already feel more comfortable thanks to a couple of PMs, offering the Zenith and talking on the phone with DroptheRemote for a solid hour asking a million questions.

Yes, I agree about buying an open box but given the price of even the open box XBR1, there was no way I could shell out for the new one. Turns out, it sold last night and I was at Ultimate Electronics until 7:30! From what I read, Lcos was what I wanted. Maybe next time...

So, I considered the Sony A10 and it was a grand less and no big ears. They had it in a small viewing room with some giant, humongous TV in the middle and Samsung DLP on the other end. Turned off the giant TV to cut down on distractions, rearranged the seat and faced the Sony from close to what my viewing distance woud be and noticed SDE like crazy. (I also noticed it last night some too). I wanted to like the Sony but I saw it a lot and it was distracting. Coupled with black crush and possible blur and possible green blob/haze I moved on. Ok, no Lcos, no LCD. Plasma I never considered as I got burn in on my Mits among other reasons including price. So not much left. I took my sister and my brother-in-law's brother along with me today. I told them in the car that each TV we would be looking at would employ a different technology and there were issues with each. I did not tell them anything more. They did not notice the screen door effect and my sister strongly preferred the PQ of the Samsung. I asked the salesman to make the brightnesss, etc the same on the Sony and the Samsung so the Samsung would not appear better due to being brighter. I had them play the screen credits on the Sammy and we all noticed how there were pixel jaggies. So now what?? The PQ looked good to me so I opted for the Samsung HLR5067W despite the pixalization of the credits. I was running out of technology here guys. The sales guy confessed he did not notice the rainbow effect until he got his home but that he had if I recall correctly, last years Mits DLP. He also said me watching it carefully I would not see it. So if I get it and it drives me crazy like the SDE did I'll return it and guess will join a book club!! :D

Ultimate was out of stock on the HLR 720p due to the big price drop and have 27 people on their waiting list. He felt bad that he didn't mention they weren't in stock after we spent close to an hour there. So much so, when I called CC which was across the parking lot, he said they did have it in stock so I could get a price match from CC. Apparently CC will beat their price, just not meet it. So the price of the TV was $xxxx which I think is pretty good. If not, someone please tell me. I got $60 off the stand, saved $70 more on it by assembling ourselves. Due to the rather short life of these bulbs and their cost, I opted for the 4 year in-home warranty which includes bulb replacement (when they start flickering as opposed to burned out). Normally I never get a warranty but this felt it a wise choice with this purchase. CC warranty was more than Ultimate's at $449.

So with the $ I saved on not getting the XBR1 I was able to afford a 4 yr warranty and a HD-DVR. I just got the most incredible deal of my life from D* due to a misunderstanding on their part and my being a noob. I have gone on long enough so suffice it to say, I got the HD-DVR for $200, free 3 months HD channels, a $10 credit for 12 months (so that about covers the HD channel cost), $99 install waived, six months of Showtime and a $80 one time credit. The customer retention person also made a note to do a full swap out at no charge when the MPEG-4 DVRs are rolled out as well as a 5 LNB for locals if I need it. (She quoted me May for locals). Gave me her employee number and name for reference later. It was a mix up due to the CC Samsung deal with $100 off TV and a H10 HD receiver only for $0 after $200 rebate+3 months free programming. Those HD-DVR units were a grand in July she said. I said prices always come down but I think I got a great deal!

TV delivered on Sunday, D* here Wednesday afternoon. If you read this far, I thank you!

Enjoy your new TV. I hope Circuit City gave you as good of service as we did. ;)

BudShark

01-22-06, 12:31 AM

if I ditched dish, i'd miss HBO and SHO HD channels-- thats about it. Everything else I watch is OTA. But once Blu-Ray and HD-DVD hit, i probably wont be watching HBO and SHO HD as much...

Thats my other thought... if I can point to the $75/mo saved, the $500 for HD-DVD won't be too bad... :)

MSloss

01-22-06, 12:39 AM

Why exactly do you say the HD-Tivo will be obsolete? True, once D* transitions all of it's HD channels to MPEG-4, you'll no longer be able to receive HD channels from D* but the HD-Tivo should still work fine for D*'s SD channels and OTA digitial channels, yes? And as long as you have your HD-Tivo registered as an active receiver, you'll get program guide info, which I would think should still include your OTA channels.

My point is why pay the fee to D*, waste the two sat leads, and use it with an HD TV when it will be unable to receive their HD programming after the conversion (HBO, HDNET, etc.)? They will replace it at no charge (if they keep their word) with the new HD DVR that will receive all the HD programming, so that is why I termed it obsolete.

Mike

Robert Simandl

01-22-06, 12:54 AM

Doug,

Never a problem here vis a vis one tuner vs. the other on the HD Tivo. The OTA channel I most often have a problem with is 46-1, and when I do it sucks equally on both tuners. If 46-1 ever goes to real HD, I might get the urge to actually do something about that.

Good to hear about KDNL doing 5.1 tonight.... have to check out Desperate Housewives Sunday. Just for the 5.1 sound. Yeah, that's the ticket.....

DroptheRemote

01-22-06, 09:03 AM

jimglobe

01-22-06, 09:14 AM

WinstonSmith

01-22-06, 10:21 AM

While I could probably go with the OTA-only situation for some time, I need ESPN and Fox Sports Midwest for Cardinals games. There's no way around that for me.

I also enjoy cable news. That's where I get a large percentage of my information.

MoInSTL

01-22-06, 10:29 AM

Enjoy your new TV. I hope Circuit City gave you as good of service as we did. ;)

"We" as in Ultimate Electronics? Or we as here? If the former, no way can CC compete IMO with UE. I bought my Mits at UE in Phoenix. The soft lighting, wide selection, smaller viewing rooms and non-pushy sales staff willing to answer a lot of questions over the phone prior to stepping into the store was great. A real person answers the phone and no annoying phone tree to navigate. Contrast that with how horribly CC displays their sets under those overly bright warehouse lights with TVs blaring and well, it's downright grating. I didn't want to purchase it there as I don't know how good they are about post sales service. I also am leary about how their delivery drivers handle equipment. When asked, they said they don't know anything about red carpet delivery so I put down a long runner at the front door.

If UE had it in-stock or a firm date on the next shipment I would have waited.

Tom Grooms

01-22-06, 10:43 AM

We as in Ultimate. I just hate to lose a sale to "Skippy" across the street. Oh well, maybe next time.....

WinstonSmith

01-22-06, 10:44 AM

I have never bought anything from UE. I actually purchase my televisions at a local, family owned electronics and refrigeration and home appliance store that my family has been doing business with for 30 years.

The experience is great.

MoInSTL

01-22-06, 10:53 AM

Edit: Delvery is anywhere from now to noon and CC delivery can take the Terk back since I used a credit/debit card

A few questions about antennas guys. I have the Zenith and before I had that I purchased a amplified Terk TV3. Round circle with 42" rabbit ears and integrated video switch. Looked at the Radio Shack mailer and they have a new item. A amplified antenna with remote to fine tune it and LCD channel display at the antenna base. It looks pretty cool. On sale for $49.99.

I know nothing about amplifier gains. So of the 3 antennas, one Zenith and two amplified what's the basic difference? Why do folks hate the Terks? Has anyone tried the new Radio Shack one? What makes the Zenith so good? How are they ranked? I know a bit about routers and wireless and so I get why some are better devices than others. Does anyone have a link or two that explains how they work with in lay terms? Everything I have found so far is too technical to cut my teeth on.

Radio shack Link http://heh.pl/&2E6
Marketing blurb:
This indoor antenna allows you to enjoy the best possible HDTV programming. Experience sharper HDTV picture quality with three amplifier gains (19dB, 15dB and 10dB), 330° rotation and 12 reception directions. The LCD displays the memory numbers, gain settings and direction for easy reference. The remote control works indoors or outdoors, up to 50 feet away.
3 amplifier gain levels
330° rotation and 12 reception directions
Remote control range of 50 feet, indoors and outdoors

DroptheRemote

01-22-06, 12:12 PM

Mo, I can't address all your questions, but here's the ones I can:

* I don't like Terk antennas because the three that I've had hands-on experience with were all worthless. Others here have reported better luck, so it's possible it was just luck of the draw for me.

* In my experience, the Silver Sensor is a reliable performer. In fact, I haven't seen anything that worked better than a Silver Sensor, so it's a good way to "cut to the chase" in determining whether an indoor antenna will work in a given location.

* The Radio Shack antenna sounds interesting, but I have so little faith in their products and stores these days that I'd have extremely low expectations of something like this.

I'm completely stymied in trying to figure out who RS see as their target customer these days. Radio Shack used to be a good place to buy parts, such as video and audio connectors/adapters or basic PC stuff. Of the last half dozen times I've tried to find something like this at RS, it was a total waste of time.

For example, it seems like a no-brainer that RS would stock RGB video breakout cables (15-pin SVGA at one end and five BNC connectors at the other. But no dice -- the only place I've found that reliably stocks these is Computer Renaissance.

I guess Radio Shack makes more money on cell phones and whatever satellite service they're hawking this month (it seems like they're constantly flip-flopping between DISH and DirecTV).

And the last time I was in RS, they had a knock-off mini-DLP projector that was displaying some of the worst-looking images I have ever seen. It was projecting onto a 4'x3' piece of cardboard that suspended from the ceiling by fishing line and positioned RIGHT under a flourescent light bank.

That's a product display only a future "Darwin Award" winner could love.

Sorry for the off-query rant. What we really need here in St. Louis is something like a Fry's Electronics.

kdg454

01-22-06, 12:26 PM

What we really need here in St. Louis is something like a Fry's Electronics.
Ah....Fry's....used to shop there in both LA and TX.....a small slice of heaven :)
I still use their dial up ISP as my dial backup.

Joseph Clark

01-22-06, 12:34 PM

HD-DVD, Blu-Ray Must Implement Analog "Image Constraint"

It's bad enough that the consumer electronics industry can't get it together and figure out one hardware standard for HD-format DVD. Now, Hollywood studios are forcing hardware implementation of something called analog "image constraint" on the makers of HD-format DVD players.

What this means is that each studio releasing HD-format content will have the option, on a per release basis, to "downconvert" images sent via analog connections. According to the story below from Video Business Online, they will be required to indicate on the packaging if analog resolution is going to be forced lower.

If flagged for analog image constraint, a disc that provides a 1080px1920 picture via HDMI or DVI would produce only 540px960 image over analog connections, such as component video.

While this analog downconversion is still a 50% increase in pixel count from today's 480px720 standard-definition DVD picture resolution, it is only 25% of the resolution of true 1080p.

Further, depending on how images are actually stored on the BR and HD-DVD discs, even first-generation 1080p sets (those not capable of accepting a 1080p signal) could end up with visibly compromised video quality.

For me, this is just one more reason to keep walking when I see Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players on retailers' shelves.

This entire process of development of HD-resolution DVD reminds me of the committee that started out designing a horse but ended up with a camel.

The following excerpt is from Video Business Online:
_____________________________________________________

Some buyers of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players might not get everything they bargained for.

In a deal reached this week after tense negotiations, the eight-company consortium behind the Advanced Access Content System, created for use by both high-def formats to prevent unauthorized copying, has agreed to require hardware makers to bar some high-def signals from being sent from players to displays over analog connections, sources said.

Instead, the affected analog signal must be “down-converted” from the full 1920x1080 lines of resolution the players are capable of outputting to 960x540 lines—a resolution closer to standard DVDs than to high-def. Standard DVDs are typically encoded at 720 horizontal by 480 vertical lines of resolution.

The 960x540 standard stipulated in the AACS agreement represents 50% higher resolution than standard-def, but only one-quarter the resolution of full high-def. Whether a particular movie is down-converted will be up to the studio.

The players will be required to recognize and respond to a digital flag, called an Image Constraint Token, inserted into the movie data.

If the flag is set to “on,” the player must down-convert the analog signal. If set to “off,” the player can pass the full high-def signal over the analog connections.

The studios are divided over whether to require such down-conversion and are likely to follow separate policies.

Hardware makers had generally resisted the requirement, but under the new deal, ICT recognition will be included in the AACS license that all device makers and playback software vendors will have to sign.

Estimates differ on how many consumers might be affected by the new requirement.
_____________________________________________________

For the full story, click here. (http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6300812.html)

This is one of the most ridiculous measures ever taken, even by Hollywood standards. It is designed to "plug the analog hole" - as if any regular consumers are going to have the means to copy analog HD video and audio signals in the first place, or, if they could, they would even bother. Digital pirates are the ones they need to worry about, and they will find a way to break the new digital copy protection standard. This is just another slap in the face of the millions of people who bought analog only HD sets, when they were at their highest prices. Downrezzing will have only one effect - alienation of those people who have shown the greatest willingness to embrace this new technology.

This bonehead move, along with the inability of the HD-DVD and the Blu-Ray camps to come up with a single standard, will set back HD movies by years. It's just another example of an inability to recognize that what is in the best interest of the consumer ultimately is in the best interest of the consumer electronics manufaturers and the movie studios. They have shown zero ability to learn from their own mistakes.

These studios, which took Sony to court and argued that the original Betamax VCR would irreparably harm their business, are now ready to adopt measures that will hurt their best customers. You would think the runaway success of the regular DVD would be enough to prove to them that if you create a good product and sell it at a reasonable price, people will flock to it.

Monumentally stupid.

DroptheRemote

01-22-06, 12:59 PM

RaceTripper

01-22-06, 01:11 PM

Joe,

I agree with you completely, and I'll go one step further and say that because of the draconian steps that Hollywood is taking that they are effectively painting a large and prominent "bullseye" at which the global hacker community will only be too happy to take aim.

No doubt the encryption built into these new formats is much tougher than what was used for the original DVD standard. But it most certainly will be broken -- my guess is within 18 months of the first BR or HD-DVD discs issued.
I think if the RIAA and MPAA doesn't cool their heels, ultimately consumers will get so frustrated and fed up they'll find other ways to experience music and acting, and find new things to do in leisure time. So if RIAA/MPAA members are worried about losing money to piracy, wait till they see what happens when their entire customer base disappears.

So what I'm talking about isn't something that's going to happen soon, or even in the next decade. But the writing is on the wall.

As someone with a music degree, I have, in the past, discouraged others from copying CDs illegally. But I no longer care because the RIAA doesn't care for a moment about the artists, or even music, or any semblance of quality. They only care about corporate greed. The MPAA is the same.

MoInSTL

01-22-06, 01:40 PM

It's dropping in & out on some channels but we figured out where it needs to be and if I get a shelf on the wall to put it higher in the spot we determined slightly better PQ, may not be so bad. Don't know what casues the dropping unless it's planes. Even though I live close to Lambert I hear only 1 or 2 planes a day but I'm thinking the ones I don't see may be interfering.

Fewer flights at night so I'll know nore later. For now I need to read the manual. I have noticed when commercials drop the format to 4:3 I notice a pincushion on the black bars. Not terrible but not slight. So I need to see if I can adjust it. I also need to figure out what mode I want. I have only fiddled with it a few minutes and have it in movie mode for now which causes more smoothing.

I'm not going to go with a roof antenna. I'm going to just hold off until D* carries locals in HD in May. Btw, SD looks better than I expected. I thought it would be much worse.

Sent the un-opened Terk back with delivery drivers.

Edit: Doug, this is the first place I have lived that has no Fry's. Most of the people that work there are idiots but they have some hard to find parts, have a huge selection and good sales on some stuff like hard drives and other things. Loved being able to dash out to a Fry's (Phoenix had 2, Bay Area 3 IIRC) for things.

moman19

01-22-06, 01:44 PM

I have been considering the same thing. Charter just raised rates again on cable and the Moxi service. The prices are getting really outrageous. I am not sure we watch that much TV at my house to justify these costs. I can get an HD tuner, and get OTA for free.

With never-ending rate increases it makes more & more sense to offer ala-carte pricing. Why must I pay for 500 channels when I really only watch MAYBE 10% of that number and even less than that on a regular basis.

If someone wants Telemundo, Religion, gambling, shopping channels or whatever and I don't, let free market forces prevail.

WinstonSmith

01-22-06, 01:53 PM

black_macleod

01-22-06, 02:10 PM

is there any difference between a coaxial digital audio cable's input qualiity and a Toslink audio cable's input quality?

Is there going to be a huge difference in the quality of a connection between my DVD player and surround sound receiver if I use a digital coax rather than a Toslink?

(After looking at my parents this weekend, which I asked you guys about, I am going to have a similar issue at my house very soon.) Thanks for the advice, as always.

I'm sure some audiophile may say there is, but I sure don't notice any. I use the lightpipe from my Moxi and coax from my DVD player, both play 5.1 perfectly, and the coax carries DTS perfectly. I think they are equally good, just different interfaces.

WinstonSmith

01-22-06, 02:59 PM

Thanks! That's the assurance I needed. Very much appreciate.

That's why I love this forum!

RaceTripper

01-22-06, 03:05 PM

Thanks! That's the assurance I needed. Very much appreciate.

That's why I love this forum!
I prefer coax becuase it's physically more robust. With optical you have to worry about excessive bending of the cable. I'm told timing (judder) problems can be an issue with optical. Coax can support higher bandwidth although I don't know if that makes any difference with current source material.

MoInSTL

01-22-06, 03:37 PM

Doug, thanks for the feedback. Since the Zenith works it's a moot point. CC delivery guys took the Terk. The RS has a coolness factore though.

Very first impressions...

Could have gone bigger but since I went from a 46" to 50" this is fine. The Mits was longer unless this new stand is playing tricks on my eyes.

When HD drops to non-HD like commercials, I know it's pincushion on black bars or image depending how you look at it, like so: ) ( which is very annoying so this may be going back. On phone holding for Samsung support. Don't even know if they are open, but holding.

Edit: Samsung tech support claims to have never heard of this and a search on the forums turned up many, many threads....

Greens are very predominate but I'm not going to change gamma in SM yet. (Too scared).

SD looks better than expected. Garbage in, garbage out. But I expected worse.

PQ to me is fabulous! A good calibration later will be sweet. I don't watch football but can't take my eyes off it!

Can anyone tell how dogone excited I am to be able to pull OTA at airport and have HD? First time and I LOVE IT!!!

HD-DVR on Wednesday so this is only going to get better!

jzanitsch

01-22-06, 04:30 PM

DroptheRemote

01-22-06, 04:53 PM

Jeremy,

In virtually all cases, the best option -- meaning the solution most likely to result in receipt of all stations -- is a rooftop antenna.

But for many people, the idea of putting an antenna on the roof is unappealing because of aesthetics. There's also the issue of running wire through walls, crawl spaces, etc., and that also applies to antennas located in an attic.

So, for many people, the question of what type of antenna to buy comes down to "the path of least resistance."

From that perspective, it makes sense to start with an indoor antenna to see if the simple solution delivers all of the available stations or not. If not, then you have no choice but to consider the more difficult scenarios of an attic or rooftop mount.

Of course, there can also be an issue of the aesthetics of an indoor antenna -- even with the Silver Sensor, which is fairly presentable (as antennas go, IMO). I have one client who attached a long run of coax and hid his SS in a closet. But I wouldn't count on that being universally workable.

WRacer

01-22-06, 05:15 PM

KDNL broadcasting in 5.1 tonight. :D when did this start?

Wondered how long it would take for someone to notice! We started Thursday night. There were a lot of problems getting this to work properly and as noticed the lip sync is way off. It is difficult to work on sync without a test signal, so there may be times in the AM when we'll need to put a test signal on the air. The switch to 5.1 is on a temporary switch so you may see a slight delay going to the 5.1. We'll be working on these issues this week. Any comments are welcome as I can't monitor 5.1 at home....yet.

As far as HD on Charter....comments about "Must Carry" are correct. In the past stations almost always elected Must Carry at no charge to the cable company. But the cable companys pay for all the other channels you see and in a competitive world where broadcast shares are shrinking, more and more companys will want to be compensated as the other cable program providers are. Better get an antenna for the Super Bowl, but don't get me involved in this debate, I have no control over it!!!
Jim

moman19

01-22-06, 06:07 PM

Wondered how long it would take for someone to notice! We started Thursday night. There were a lot of problems getting this to work properly and as noticed the lip sync is way off. It is difficult to work on sync without a test signal, so there may be times in the AM when we'll need to put a test signal on the air. The switch to 5.1 is on a temporary switch so you may see a slight delay going to the 5.1. We'll be working on these issues this week. Any comments are welcome as I can't monitor 5.1 at home....yet.

As far as HD on Charter....comments about "Must Carry" are correct. In the past stations almost always elected Must Carry at no charge to the cable company. But the cable companys pay for all the other channels you see and in a competitive world where broadcast shares are shrinking, more and more companys will want to be compensated as the other cable program providers are. Better get an antenna for the Super Bowl, but don't get me involved in this debate, I have no control over it!!!
Jim

Jim,

I'll gladly chime in whenever possible. As you probably already know the audio was clearly behind the video . I would guess at a half-second....give or take.

It sounded great, though. Keep up the good work.

moman19

01-22-06, 06:14 PM

Anyone watch SNL last night in HD? The self- proclaimed "local HD leader" botched it so badly that I had to flip to SD halfway thru the show. Major freezes, pizelizing and flashes. It's amazing that they care so little about the viewer and time-shift to shoehorn 5 more minutes of ads between the end of the local news and the begining of the show. I could live with this if it were seamless. But it's a basketcase, and we're halfway thru the season!

I don't know what piece of crappy hardware they use to time-shift. Perhaps they should invest in a $1,000 TiVO.

wallyj

01-22-06, 06:50 PM

I prefer coax becuase it's physically more robust. With optical you have to worry about excessive bending of the cable. I'm told timing (judder) problems can be an issue with optical. Coax can support higher bandwidth although I don't know if that makes any difference with current source material.

That's along the lines of what I hear. No noticeable difference in audio quality, but coax is more suitable for longer runs.

wallyj

01-22-06, 06:54 PM

[QUOTE=moman19]Anyone watch SNL last night in HD? The self- proclaimed "local HD leader" botched it so badly that I had to flip to SD halfway thru the show...QUOTE]

We finished our movie early and I switched over to SNL for the first time since HD broadcasts. What a mess! As moman states, what a joke as the “leader in St. Louis HD”

wmschultz

01-22-06, 07:18 PM

Wondered how long it would take for someone to notice! We started Thursday night. There were a lot of problems getting this to work properly and as noticed the lip sync is way off. It is difficult to work on sync without a test signal, so there may be times in the AM when we'll need to put a test signal on the air. The switch to 5.1 is on a temporary switch so you may see a slight delay going to the 5.1. We'll be working on these issues this week. Any comments are welcome as I can't monitor 5.1 at home....yet.

As far as HD on Charter....comments about "Must Carry" are correct. In the past stations almost always elected Must Carry at no charge to the cable company. But the cable companys pay for all the other channels you see and in a competitive world where broadcast shares are shrinking, more and more companys will want to be compensated as the other cable program providers are. Better get an antenna for the Super Bowl, but don't get me involved in this debate, I have no control over it!!!
Jim

JIMMY!!!

Where have you been? What about the "tour"? :D

moman19

01-22-06, 09:11 PM

.......what a joke as the “leader in St. Louis HD”

Perhaps their Marketeers (or Management) should tune in and watch for an hour or two before making such bold claims.

BTW, based upon past performance, watching their local news in HD may actually be FUN!

jdiehl

01-22-06, 09:24 PM

What we really need here in St. Louis is something like a Fry's Electronics.

OMG, don't remind me. I've bought so much stuff from Fry's while in Houston the past 8 months, it's sickening. I love that store, and I'm going to miss it terribly. Awesome store, they have anything and everything there with internet-like pricing (Best Buy hates them here, hehe).

jdiehl

01-22-06, 09:33 PM

I'm getting ready to move out to O'Fallon MO, just south of Mexico on Highway K. When I do this we're going to cut our Charter services because of all of the price increases lately. What antenna do you guys think would suit me best? An indoor or outdoor from Antennas Direct or something like the Silver Sensor?

Thanks!
Jeremy

Jeremy,

The house I just bought is just West of you (Fiese/Bryan Rds). We move in March 1st, I'll be sure to let you know how my OTA reception is. I'm planning on using the Channelmaster rooftop antenna that I have now (in Houson) which is what I used 2yrs ago when I lived in Ballwin. It was like $35 at Lowe's and I have it mounted in the attic (which I plan to do in O'Fallon too).

http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4248.jpg

I use an indoor Radio Shack double bowtie antenna if a station is giving me fits, and then switch back to the attic antenna when the show is over, but it's usually only good at pulling in a few stations at a time (whereas the yagi style attic antenna can get everything at once without adjustments).

M4XiMuS

01-22-06, 10:00 PM

Wondered how long it would take for someone to notice! We started Thursday night. There were a lot of problems getting this to work properly and as noticed the lip sync is way off. It is difficult to work on sync without a test signal, so there may be times in the AM when we'll need to put a test signal on the air. The switch to 5.1 is on a temporary switch so you may see a slight delay going to the 5.1. We'll be working on these issues this week. Any comments are welcome as I can't monitor 5.1 at home....yet.

As far as HD on Charter....comments about "Must Carry" are correct. In the past stations almost always elected Must Carry at no charge to the cable company. But the cable companys pay for all the other channels you see and in a competitive world where broadcast shares are shrinking, more and more companys will want to be compensated as the other cable program providers are. Better get an antenna for the Super Bowl, but don't get me involved in this debate, I have no control over it!!!
Jim

Jim,

It's looking much better towards the end of Desperate Housewives tonight... still about 1/4 of a second off, but much better than last night or earlier this evening! :)

bubba1972

01-22-06, 10:49 PM

I was hoping the sound and picture dropouts during Saturday Night Live were not problems with my TV or Moxi. It was nice of KSDK to decide to turn the HD switch on half way through their Detroit Auto Show coverage this morning. The second half looked very nice.

Scott Tucker

01-22-06, 10:56 PM

kdg454

01-22-06, 11:05 PM

Quort

01-22-06, 11:22 PM

I'm getting ready to move out to O'Fallon MO, just south of Mexico on Highway K. When I do this we're going to cut our Charter services because of all of the price increases lately. What antenna do you guys think would suit me best? An indoor or outdoor from Antennas Direct or something like the Silver Sensor?

Thanks!
Jeremy

I used to live in Troy MO, and had a CM4228 in the attic, with decent reception. Now I"m a few miles north of Troy and have that antenna mounted on the roof (single-story home) and can pick up all STL area digital channels reliably except PBS. I also put a small amp on the incoming coax to help with drop-outs. If I need Ch9 std def for some reason, the CM provides a decent signal for the higher number VHF channels. (The CM4228 is a UHF-only antenna)

rseavey

01-22-06, 11:37 PM

Jeremy,

Of course, there can also be an issue of the aesthetics of an indoor antenna -- even with the Silver Sensor, which is fairly presentable (as antennas go, IMO). I have one client who attached a long run of coax and hid his SS in a closet. But I wouldn't count on that being universally workable.

I bought a SS (based on reviews from here) after three other indoor antennas proved less than satisfactory (Terk included). The signal in my basement was very good, but I moved it to the attic to try and get a stronger signal, and to get it out of the way. Has worked great for 1 1/2 years with zero issues from Wildwood, MO (100 and 109).

audiolocator

01-23-06, 12:09 AM

Joseph Clark

01-23-06, 01:16 AM

That's along the lines of what I hear. No noticeable difference in audio quality, but coax is more suitable for longer runs.

I use 25' runs of RG6 with RF to RCA adapters for coax, rather than the expensive "digital audio coax" cable (for runs between rooms). I use short optical for most runs between components in my main rack. I don't notice any difference in sound quality.

Kurt K

01-23-06, 01:36 AM

This is one of the most ridiculous measures ever taken, even by Hollywood standards. It is designed to "plug the analog hole" - as if any regular consumers are going to have the means to copy analog HD video and audio signals in the first place, or, if they could, they would even bother. Digital pirates are the ones they need to worry about, and they will find a way to break the new digital copy protection standard. This is just another slap in the face of the millions of people who bought analog only HD sets, when they were at their highest prices. Downrezzing will have only one effect - alienation of those people who have shown the greatest willingness to embrace this new technology.
....
Monumentally stupid.

Wow, I missed a lot of comments the last 3 days. Anyway, I fall into the analog only HD category and this news is most disturbing for me. :mad: If the lower res does become mandatory, maybe somebody will come up with a convertor to analog, although it will be illegal, I'm sure.

DroptheRemote

01-23-06, 08:59 AM

DirecTV Adds HD Music Channel -- But It's Not MTV or HD

The following is from today's TVPredictions.com newsletter:

_______________________________________________

DIRECTV yesterday launched a high-def version of its new original music channel, CD USA. The network features concert performances and interviews with musicians such as Ashlee Simpson.

However, as a high-def owner, I can't quite sing its praises. CD USA's HD picture is soft, offering very little detail. The colors are bright and vivid, but the dull picture makes you wonder why you spent so much money on a high-def set. It's just a small improvement from the images you might see on a superior digital (but non-HD) channel, such as CNN.

In the past, DIRECTV has frequently squeezed the compression on its signal so it can add more channels -- and I suspect that it's done it again for the high-def CD USA. (DIRECTV needs to compress the signal because it has little room left on its current MPEG2 satellites. Sorry for the tech talk, lay folks.)

However, when it squeezes the signal to add channel space, the picture quality suffers. DIRECTV may rationalize the decision because it can now claim it has a new HDTV channel. But, folks, this isn't real HD. I would rather see DIRECTV broadcast fewer channels in real high-def rather than try to fool people into thinking they are watching high-def.

DIRECTV this year is scheduled to upgrade its signal from MPEG2 to MPEG4, which is supposed to permit channel expansion without picture degradation. But we'll see, won't we? Despite the satcaster's launch of four new satellites to provide more local and national HD, it's uncertain to me if the entire DIRECTV management team supports real HD.

In fact, David Hill, DIRECTV's entertainment president, the man behind the new CD USA channel, once said this of HDTV: "I can't understand the excitement about it. It just lengthens and broadens the picture, makes it sharper but doesn't change it."
_______________________________________________

For more news about HDTV and the television industry, go to www.tvpredictions.com

DroptheRemote

01-23-06, 09:06 AM

Just checked out the new DirecTV HD Music channel -- it's channel 101.

Apparently this is just a 1-hour loop that runs continuously. Highly questionable use of precious bandwidth, IMO...

wilkemp

01-23-06, 09:54 AM

I was bored Friday and scrolling thru the endless INHD PPV schedule (Charter), off air until I hit Feb 1st, and there was the scheduled event of NBA league pass HD games I set the Moxi to record and no mention of a charge. Haven't checked since then but I did see it.

DroptheRemote

01-23-06, 10:01 AM

Wow, I missed a lot of comments the last 3 days. Anyway, I fall into the analog only HD category and this news is most disturbing for me. :mad: If the lower res does become mandatory, maybe somebody will come up with a convertor to analog, although it will be illegal, I'm sure.We shouldn't have to resort to "illegal devices" to enjoy HD programming.

Better to vote with your checkbook...

Robert Simandl

01-23-06, 10:15 AM

As another one that falls into the analog-only HDTV group, looks like there won't be any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player in my near future.

wmschultz

01-23-06, 10:17 AM

During today's Steelers/Broncos game, I was able to switch between KMOVDT OTA, and the CBSHD SAT feed from NY.

I noticed, what I thought were differences in the PQ and audio.
Is it possible for there to be any difference in the picture and sound quality between the two?

I thought the OTA had a better picture, and the SAT feed had better sound.
At least to me, which in itself, may be the only difference.

I notice a difference in PQ and Audio when watching the NY Fox channel. It has
double audio sometimes and the picture isn't quite as clear. But with my problems
of picking up KTVI, I can't depend on it to schedule my recordings, so I live with
the issues.

I would imagine the PQ is compromised due to compression on D* part. Hopefully
we don't have this problem when we go MPEG4.

aspec2

01-23-06, 12:45 PM

kdg454

Simple
OTA 1920X1080i
Directv......1280X1080i

Walt

aspec2

01-23-06, 12:53 PM

Anyone else see the commercial on "The leader in St. Louis HDTV".

"If you want to know anything about HDTV call us."

I hate to think of all the people getting all this misleading information. Talk about an uninformed public.

On the subject of the new HD players:

Not only will they restrict the analog signal but they must be connected to a phone line. Now if someone cracks the KEY to your model player, they can disable all players of that type. F... Them. I guess you won't own it, just rent it.

Walt

Scott Tucker

01-23-06, 12:56 PM

hanjke

01-23-06, 01:11 PM

I have Charter and it really sticks they won't pay for ABC. The fact is these media companies are in business to make money, not give their content away for free. It is ridiculous of Charter or anyone else to think they should.

Charter would have to pass along their 50 cents per subscriber fee to all customers, not just HD customers. People complain about cable bills constantly rising, imagine paying for a service that only a few actually subscribe to.

I believe this is the stations' response to the FCC ruling for digital must-carry. Stations wanted the carriers to carry all channels. Carriers said, 1 channel. FCC sided with carriers.

Broadcasters went away angry.

Giving their content away for free? I thought that's what commercials were for. It's still free OTA, isn't it?

-Hanjke

Robert Simandl

01-23-06, 01:26 PM

On the subject of the new HD players:

Not only will they restrict the analog signal but they must be connected to a phone line. Now if someone cracks the KEY to your model player, they can disable all players of that type. F... Them. I guess you won't own it, just rent it.

Hmmm, Circuit City tried this sort of thing with DivX back in the late 90's. It died a slow, painful, and well-deserved death. If the new HD/BR DVD players try a similar scheme, here's hoping they get a similar result.

kdg454

01-23-06, 01:43 PM

How did you get to keep D* channel 80? They turned mine off.

Scott
Sorry, I should have been more specific, I have Dish.

dominicr

01-23-06, 02:05 PM

Scott Tucker

01-23-06, 02:24 PM

Sorry, I should have been more specific, I have Dish.

Bummer, I was hoping you could tell me how to get channel 80 back, so I wouldn't have to watch KMOV.

Scott

Joseph Clark

01-23-06, 03:50 PM

Hmmm, Circuit City tried this sort of thing with DivX back in the late 90's. It died a slow, painful, and well-deserved death. If the new HD/BR DVD players try a similar scheme, here's hoping they get a similar result.

That's a good comparison. Divx (not to be confused with the compression standard) was a horrible idea, and the disks were incompatible with regular DVD players, too. You were stuck playing the Divx disks you bought only on the player you owned. You couldn't even play them on someone else's Divx player, or loan them to a friend. The public rejected the whole idea.

The movie studios may indeed get what they want this time around, but I doubt very seriously it will be in their best interest. Remember, the MPAA fought for years to get the VCR outlawed (copyright infringement, they argued). If they had gotten their way, there might be several fewer movie studios today, since the videocassette probably saved them from going bust a long time ago.

When I think about it, maybe I'd be better off if the studios had prevailed. I have given up on the studio system to make more than a handful of good movies every few years. Comedies don't amuse me, dramas don't move me and science fiction films value special effects over story telling. Over the last few years, broadcast television (episodic TV) has become far more important to me than the movie studios for entertainment. There was consistently more humor in one episode of Raymond or Friends than all the comedy films I would see in a year. And I wouldn't trade the seven year run of Buffy the Vampire Slayer for all the movies made during that time.

Rant over. Sorry.

Joseph Clark

01-23-06, 04:04 PM

Thought I'd let everyone know that Radio Shack no longer sells the digital audio converter that I mentioned earlier. I wanted another one, but they are no longer selling them. Too bad, it was a simple little device (tiny, weighed nothing) that just plain worked.

DroptheRemote

01-23-06, 04:06 PM

Not only will they restrict the analog signal but they must be connected to a phone line. Now if someone cracks the KEY to your model player, they can disable all players of that type. F... Them. I guess you won't own it, just rent it.

WaltThis is incorrect on several counts.

First of all, there is no requirement for a phone line or a phone jack.

However, there is an RJ-45 jack, but this is not intended to be a "phone home" facility in terms of the base AACS digital rights management system that is used on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players. The RJ-45 is designed for interactive applications, and this might include the ability to purchase "action figure" type memorabilia, or to download additional content associated with the movie on the disc.

On the other hand, there is something called BD+, which resulted from the Fox studio insisting that it needed additional content protection in order to throw its support to Blu-Ray. AACS and the DVD Forum looked at Fox's request and rejected it, but Sony/Blu-Ray agreed in order to get Fox's support.

However, no one apart from Fox and Sony/Blu-Ray know exactly what Sony/Blu-Ray agreed to with BD+, including whether it has anything to do with the RJ-45 port. It might, and it might not. The specification is still being worked on and has not been available for further review by interested parties.

Second, the AACS system provides for unique individual "keys" in each player, and if a SPECIFIC player is deemed to have been security-compromised, its key will appear on a "wanted list" of illegal keys. This list will be regularly updated and be included on new disc pressings. If a "wanted" key is detected -- by the disc, not via a phone line -- the player is disabled only for those discs where the player's key appears on the "wanted list."

All of the above information comes from a long article in the January 2006 issue of Widescreen Review ("Home Theater Cruise; Battle of the Formats: HD DVD and Blu-Ray").

It is possible that something more definitive has come out since this article went to press back in early December, but I don't believe that is the case.

It's also worth pointing out that there's no meaningful parallel to DIVX.

MoInSTL

01-23-06, 04:51 PM

Tomorrow I am getting my HD-DVR which is great since I fell asleep while watching Law & Order in HD and had to finish watching it in SD on my currrent SD DVR. Looked pretty awful.

Didn't realize until last night that D* has an OTA clip-on that attaches to the SAT dish on the roof. Theoretically it should function somewhat like a roof antenna correct? I called them this morning and can get it with install for only $50. Does anyone have the clip-on for OTA? I tried searching and browsing various threads and I'm not making much headway. I figured for a small investment it may be worth trying it. My silver sensor works, but I am so close the airport I get dropped from time to time. The sat already faces south so again, theoretically it should work. Or will I be wasting time & money? I don't want to buy a roof antenna since D* is supposed to go local HD in May.

Btw, the prices at BB & CC dropped again so I called this morning and got $267 credit on my debit card for my TV.

Thanks in advance!

DroptheRemote

01-23-06, 04:53 PM

Mo,

I don't have direct experience with the dish clip-on type antennas, but I have read from several sources that they don't work very well.

Unless several folks here pipe up with other information, I'd pass on the $50 outlay.

MoInSTL

01-23-06, 05:02 PM

Thanks. I can still cancel if needed. Hopefully I can get other replies too.

I stayed up until 4:30 reading forums and it's all starting to run together. So I figured folks in STL would know best.

Mo,

I don't have direct experience with the dish clip-on type antennas, but I have read from several sources that they don't work very well.

Unless several folks here pipe up with other information, I'd pass on the $50 outlay.

Robert Simandl

01-23-06, 05:04 PM

Mo, your current Silver Sensor blows away that clip-on thing.

MoInSTL

01-23-06, 05:33 PM

Okay, two opinions are enough for me to call D* and cancel.
According to antennaweb I need a Medium Directional Antenna. I guess I need to look into those costs and see it it's worth it for a few months.

Mo, your current Silver Sensor blows away that clip-on thing.

Joseph Clark

01-23-06, 05:35 PM

Second, the AACS system provides for unique individual "keys" in each player, and if a SPECIFIC player is deemed to have been security-compromised, its key will appear on a "wanted list" of illegal keys. This list will be regularly updated and be included on new disc pressings. If a "wanted" key is detected -- by the disc, not via a phone line -- the player is disabled only for those discs where the player's key appears on the "wanted list."

It's also worth pointing out that there's no meaningful parallel to DIVX.

I didn't read that article in WSR carefully enough, I think. When you say "specific" players, you mean individual units, not particular brands, right? If so, then how does a studio know if a particular player has compromised security?

I think in terms of Divx the meaningful parallel is in the severe copy protection measures it took. I think that if manufacturers could agree on one standard, allowed full resolution viewing over the analog outputs and didn't require the user to jump through hoops to view a legally purchased movie when and where he/she wanted to, we'd have another DVD-category megahit.

MoInSTL

01-23-06, 06:30 PM

Talked to Antennas Direct and explained my situation being so close to Lambert. He recommended the 42XG based on my findings at antennaweb and a customer in Bridgeton. He recommended the same installer as DropTheRemote. He's in the business of selling antennas but he made two good points. He said that OTA HD will be better than HD locals due to compression and that it will not be as subject to rain fade as my SAT. The antenna is $69+install costs except the installer gets them cheaper. I left the guy a message. The above points seem valid. My only other concern is that things may go back to VHF.
http://heh.pl/&2EA

So this seems most logical. I just have to find out what the total cost is. D* charges only $3 a month for locals.

Thanks for your PATIENCE answering my multitude of questions.

DroptheRemote

01-23-06, 06:33 PM

Joe,

Yes, individual players, not particular models or brands.

Compromised players will be determined by tracing back "pirate copies" to the player key that was responsible for creating them. Apparently the AACS parties believe that even if the copy protection can be circumvented that the key information will still be extractable from whatever pirated product that the enforcers come across.

Not sure this would hold for analog copies (which may explain the doubled level of already heightened paranoia), but apparently digital copies would leave fingerprints from the originating player.

I might be a bit foggy on DIVX, even though my first DVD player was DIVX-ready (it actually never had so much as a sniff at a DIVX disc). But I seem to recall that the big bugaboo there wasn't the copy-protection, but rather privacy concerns, as there would be a record of the movies you watched/paid for at the DIVX central database.

Mind you, the whole idea was pretty brain-dead, but I seem to recall that privacy issue was the primary objection, particularly when you consider that the standard DVD security then in place hadn't even been cracked by the time DIVX was dead and buried.

DroptheRemote

01-23-06, 06:59 PM

I just wanted to make the point here that no one should consider HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray a "take it or leave it" proposition. This isn't necessarily our only hope for getting access to HD movies.

Samsung has been showing a product concept they call the Universal Media Station. This device contains a 300GB hard drive, Ethernet, USB, as well as both digital and analog AV outputs. The device is designed to download media content from a networked computer or the Internet and play it back through a hardware decoder.

According to a write up in the December 2005 issue of "The Perfect Vision," "the killer app is the ability to download HD versions of movies, which will be protected by a strong DRM protocol.

"...in an effort to combat piracy, some studios are planning to post HD versions of new movies day-and-date with their theatrical release and allow you to download them for the price of a movie ticket.

"The DRM will let you play the movie once or twice, after which you can pay to see it again if you want, just like buying another ticket."

But here's the real kicker:

"Once the movie leaves theaters, the dowloaded version will be unlocked so you can view it as many times as you wish. At that point, you'll even be able to archive it to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, though that disc will only play back from a player connected to the UMS."

The UMS is supposed to sell for as little as $300.

While I consider this product to be just another hyped prototype, I think something like this is going to come along eventually. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are likely the last "packaged" media product and future distribution will be digital.

The point is: HD-DVD and Blu-Ray may have the stage to themselves for now, but if they don't get a lot of traction early on, the digital distribution timetable will almost certainly be accelerated.

So again, there's no reason to consider BR and HD-DVD the only shot we're going to get.

Robert Simandl

01-23-06, 07:08 PM

DivX was a co-creation of Circuit City and some law firm in Hollywood. There were two primary objections way back then...

First was the fact that it was incompatible with the (then very expensive) DVD players that had already been bought by us early adopters. Two months after spending $1000 on my Sony DVP-S7000, hearing Circuit City head honcho Dick Sharp say that issue was "regrettable" but not his problem, did NOT go over well.

The second objection was the fact that you had to pay again every time you watched the movie you had "bought." Discs were about $7 and playable for 48 hours. After that, every time you played the disc, the player phoned home and your credit card was dinged another $3 or so.

CC and the lawyers apparently forgot that early adopters are often who Joe Sixpack turns to for advice when buying something new. Every time Joe Sixpack asked his technogeek friend who already had a DVD player about this DivX thing, the response was invariably "F*** it, go to Best Buy and get a real DVD player instead."

When DivX died, the early adopters claimed the moral of the story was "Don't diss the early adopters!"

...proving once again that the history of warfare is always written by the winners. :D

dominicr

01-23-06, 07:38 PM

Hopefully early adopters will not buy players until they have a SINGLE format and the players deliver 1080i & 1080p. If they can't remember far enough back to beta vs. vhs, they should at least look back just a few years to SACD vs. DVD-Audio. Two good concepts that just continue to flounder. Meanwhile downloadable music is taking off even with substandard quality to either. Makes me sad as a technogeek.

wallyj

01-23-06, 10:21 PM

If they can't remember far enough back to beta vs. vhs, they should at least look back just a few years to SACD vs. DVD-Audio. Two good concepts that just continue to flounder.

How about HD-VHS? A tape based technology that, for the most part, didn't even catch on with early adopters. So has the fact that you can pre-order HD DVD players breathed new life into the format, of did I miss something? A month ago, with the support of only a single studio, it was DOA.

PWSHER

01-24-06, 07:31 AM

Has anyone else recently gotten the 1 sec recordings on KMOX-HD on Charter via Moxi. I know this is an indication of no signal. I missed NCIS and another show because of this. Also the football games on KMOX-HD the last two weeks were not in HD sometimes???? I guess I shouldn't have bragged about their HD channel. KSD-HD may have competition for the worst...Oh yeah SNL was a disaster. Weekend update was unintelligible. Since I wasn't home to monitor it (takes away all the advantage of a DVR doesn't it?) and record just the SD version. :mad:

wilkemp

01-24-06, 08:46 AM

Just updating Charter INHD PPV, it now list about 3 scheduled times Feb 1st and 2nd for NBA League Pass games in HD, it also list 2 or 3 scheduled times for NHL Center Ice games in HD no price listing for either.

Tom Grooms

01-24-06, 09:27 AM

Has anyone else recently gotten the 1 sec recordings on KMOX-HD on Charter via Moxi. I know this is an indication of no signal. .... Two of my shows yesterday got recorded for 1 sec (784) but I did get all of 24. :) It's happened a few times in the past as well. What exactly causes this? It says it didn't record because it was a repeat or something like that.

MoInSTL

01-24-06, 11:17 AM

Called Premiere who is D*s contractor. Spoke to a supervisor and they no longer use the clip-on bat wings due to lousy results. Instead they use the Eagle Aspen antenna. It's a 2 bay bowite. DTV2BUHF. http://heh.pl/&2EC

So Premiere is bringing this out tomorrow. I said I wanted a straight antenna to receiver line (no diplexes). If it does not work, I won't be charged.

What do you guys think? Antennaweb said I need Medium Directional. The Silver Sensor just isn't cuttiing it. Far too many drop outs.

There is a chance I could work something out with the tech but I need advice for what and where to buy locally today.

Edit: I can post my antennaweb results if needed but am in red zone and on top of Lambert.

DTV2BUHF Specs
UHF CHANNEL 14 32 50 69
Gain 6 8 9 10 dBd
3dB Beamwidth 70° 60° 52° 46°
VHF Hi-band Gain Avg. -8dBd
Impedance 75 ohms (f-connector)
VSWR Avg. 1.7:1
Cross Pol Avg. 23dB

csluke

01-24-06, 11:28 AM

jdiehl

01-24-06, 11:42 AM

Welcome to the forum and thread.

You're correct in that a digital OTA signal is different from analog in that you either get it or you don't. If you have a good signal, the picture and sound won't get better if you get an even strong signal. As long as it's locked in and not bouncing around, you're fine.

With a weak signal that's not strong enough to stay stable, the image and/or sound will drop out on occasion, resulting in frames being dropped, the image freezing, pixelation, etc...

Some of us have OTA receivers with built in signal meters. That's the only way (that I know of) to measure your signal. My HD Tivo has one, as does my RCA DTC 100 and DTC 200. I have another, a Zenith, but it only gives me a bar type meter without any actual percentages, it's like: "weak/good/strong". The others show actual percentages so it's easier to fine tune your antenna.

It sounds like your Dell LCD has a built in ATSC tuner (HD), but likely does not have a signal meter built-in. Unless you can borrow an external OTA receiver w/ a meter, you'd have to guess and use your best estimate as to how to aim your antenna. If your picture is good and doesn't break up, don't worry about it though.

DroptheRemote

01-24-06, 11:42 AM

There is a chance I could work something out with the tech but I need advice for what and where to buy locally today.Mo,

I don't know anything about the antenna your installer is proposing. I don't think antenna selection is a major issue if you're doing a rooftop mount, considering your location (distance isn't your enemy, though multipath might be).

Otherwise, you could check with Skywalker Communications near Wentzville, which (last time I checked) stocks a pretty good line of both ChannelMaster and Winegard antennas. You should be able to match your online recommendations to what they stock.

Skywalker is located at 9390 Veterans Memorial Parkway (off of I-70) in O'Fallon. The phone number is (636) 272-8025.

black_macleod

01-24-06, 11:44 AM

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I'm not very technologically savvy and had a question about OTA reception. I live in Dardenne Prairie (O'Fallon MO), and just bought an antenna to hook up to my Dell 37" LCD. I get all the OTA feeds that are available in Saint Louis except for UPN (but I don't care about not getting UPN).

My question is this. I see a lot of posts about OTA, talking about signal strength and i'm a little confused. I don't know how to read what my signal strength is. Does it matter? I thought that if you receive the signal and you see the picture and hear the sound that's all you need. Am I potentially missing out on a better picture because I don't know what the signal strength is? I have an indoor RCA antenna that I bought at Best Buy and it seems to work just fine.

Any answers or suggestions would be great! :)

Usually in a set top box or the tv itself there is a signal strength meter. But you are correct, if you are getting picture sound, you're all set. OTA HD is all or nothing basically. If the signal is weak, you will experience drop outs. Some ppl just like to have that 90+ signal all the time :) Number watchers! I'm guilty of the same, but if I can see it / hear it, I'm good.

DroptheRemote

01-24-06, 11:50 AM

csluke,

FWIW, I don't think borrowing a receiver to get a bead on signal strength will be all that helpful. As Jon points out, you're already getting the signals (so it's probably best not to jinx things). ;)

Also, my understanding is that the signal strength meters on these receivers are actually measuring error rates and converting that to some easy-to-grasp signal strength number. Error rates are at least partly dependent on the hardware and software of a particular model receiver, so I doubt that there'd be a meaningful correlation between the tuner in your Dell and what's going on in the borrowed receiver.

A professional installer would have the tools to actually measure signal strength and to optimize the positioning of your antenna. But again, it seems like a moot point if you're getting all the channels that you care about.

csluke

01-24-06, 12:01 PM

Thanks for all of the replies guys! I appreciate it. It looks like I'm all set.

I really enjoy reading all of your posts to better educate myself about how all of this stuff works.

Sharing your knowledge on this board has really helped me out.

Thanks again!

dweebe

01-24-06, 12:48 PM

Joseph Clark

01-24-06, 01:03 PM

Did anyone see the news about "The WB" and "UPN" merging?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060124/nytu143.html?.v=43

I wonder what will happen in St. Louis? Hopefully KPLR will carry it and not the 5 watt, no HD setup over at WRBU.

This is big news - Veronica Mars in HD! Sorry, that's all I saw when I read the article, even if the article didn't say that. Sad to hear about the two guys losing their jobs in the UPN shack, though, even if one of them was only part time.

Seriously, I like the sound of this.

DroptheRemote

01-24-06, 01:08 PM

Interesting on the WB and UPN.

All you had to do was look at the UPN prime time schedule to know that there wasn't much chance for the public supporting six national networks.

I'm actually dubious about five networks, and still think the network-affiliate system as a whole will soon be on life support.

hanjke

01-24-06, 01:33 PM

Two of my shows yesterday got recorded for 1 sec (784) but I did get all of 24. :)

I may need help.
I'm addicted to this season of 24!

Anyone else see the "Jack must choose between saving his ex-girlfriend and his new girlfriend" scenario on the horizon?

dweebe

01-24-06, 02:21 PM

I may need help.
I'm addicted to this season of 24!

Anyone else see the "Jack must choose between saving his ex-girlfriend and his new girlfriend" scenario on the horizon?

Yeah, they're not finished with the chick from "Spin City" and her nosy son. They'll be in mortal danger before midnight.

I think Kim "Mountain Lion Bait" Bauer is supposed to show up in the next hour or two. I hope (like season 2) it will involve a lot of running. (BTW: did anyone catch her on "Loveline" last week? Not the sharpest crayon in the box. She must be a true blonde.)

Scott Tucker

01-24-06, 03:04 PM

Yeah, they're not finished with the chick from "Spin City" and her nosy son. They'll be in mortal danger before midnight.

I think Kim "Mountain Lion Bait" Bauer is supposed to show up in the next hour or two. I hope (like season 2) it will involve a lot of running. (BTW: did anyone catch her on "Loveline" last week? Not the sharpest crayon in the box. She must be a true blonde.)

Not sure about crayons, but thank God for true blondes. :D She needs to get back on the show.

Scott

dominicr

01-24-06, 03:15 PM

either way, i'd take Jack's reject.

Robert Simandl

01-24-06, 05:03 PM

The article says the first affiliates of the new CW network will be the stations owned by Tribune.... which include KPLR here in St. Louis. So yes, Veronica Mars WILL be in HD next season. And I imagine most of the rest of the UPN schedule will be canceled, since WB shows actually get decent ratings and will probably continue.

DroptheRemote

01-24-06, 05:09 PM

DISH, Lifetime Carriage Dispute Gets Nasty

It seems that someone at Lifetime has expertise to spare in bridge demolition...

The following is from today's Evening Bridge market close newsletter:
____________________________________________

The ongoing carriage spat between Lifetime and EchoStar took yet another turn today when the programmer put advertising in The New York Times taking aim at the satellite TV company.

The tagline of the ad read: "46 Sports channels. 7 Pornography channels. 0 Lifetime Channels. If Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network - the No. 1 and No. 2 women's networks - can't make the cut, it's obvious that DISH doesn't value women."
____________________________________________

black_macleod

01-24-06, 05:13 PM

I hope the WB11 / UPN clustering doesn't mess up how many Blues games we'll get to see next season.

Robert Simandl

01-24-06, 05:45 PM

IIRC, and I might not since I'm not a hockey fan, Blues games during the week mostly air on Fox Sports Midwest, with KPLR's games usually on the weekends?

Though with programming available from both WB and UPN, it's very possible that this new CW network just might go to seven nights a week.... something neither WB nor UPN ever did.

kdg454

01-24-06, 07:10 PM

DISH, Lifetime Carriage Dispute Gets Nasty
Quickly becoming a case of HE said, SHE said. I've followed the story closely, from both sides. Someone's lying....bigtime!

FWIW, my wife enjoyed Lifetime, and watched it often. When I asked her if she'd drop Dish and switch because of the loss of Lifetime programming, she said, "not a chance, there's plenty other programming to watch besides Lifetime. I did enjoy it a lot, but I can live without it. I wouldn't switch to Direct for one channel."
When I said what about Charter she said, "I'd sooner go off-air and DVD."

Good Wifey ;)

EDIT: I just read what transpired during the balance of the day.
Echostar offered to provide Lifetime and Lifetime Movie to its Dish customers on an ala carte basis, further clarifying, it would be with no charge to their Dish customers who want the channels. Those customers not wanting it, would not receive it.
Echostar would then pay Lifetime Network's 70% price increase based on the ala carte customers who receive the programming.

Lifetime responded by saying
"We stand by our position that Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network, the No. 1 and No. 2 women's networks, should be available to all DISH subscribers without an extra cost. DISH has already announced they are increasing their rates by $2 to $3 per month on Feb. 1. Why should women pay even more for their favorite programs?"

Link HERE (http://www.skyreport.com/)

DroptheRemote

01-24-06, 09:29 PM

KDG,

Yeah, I saw the earlier DISH proposal and it seems to me a fair offer, particularly as they're agreeing to the price increase and they're not going to charge customers who want the channel.

I do appreciate that Lifetime probably suffers for not being made available to all subscribers, but DISH should have the ability to decide what's the right way to package its services.

Painting Charlie Ergen and DISH as sports-loving and porno-loving misogynists doesn't seem like a very constructive way to negotiate. Maybe Lifetime had something else in mind with the ad, but that's the net result and it just seems incredibly stupid. Even if Lifetime gets its way this time around, there's likely to be pay back at some point down the road.

Andrew Sabin

01-24-06, 09:31 PM

I know it's highly unlikely, but let's get some odds on Charter picking up KDNL-DT for the Super Bowl. I say 1 million to 1...somewhat better than winning powerball!!

I'm sure some members recall several Super Bowls ago when Charter picked up KMOV-DT a few days before the Super Bowl on CBS. When Charter first launched HD they started with just KSDK-DT and KTVI-DT for locals. Charter gained some brownie points by picking up KMOV-DT in time for the big game.

Clearly, the differences in station ownership (i.e. ineptitude of Sinclair) make a similar occurence this year unlikely. Do you think I should hold out a few more days or just get a OTA HD receiver now for my Super Bowl party?

Thanks

Robert Simandl

01-24-06, 10:37 PM

Andrew,

I'd put the odds of the Super Bowl on Charter far BELOW the chance of winning Power Ball. IIRC, there was a similar discussion here the last time ABC did the Super Bowl in HD (2001?).

That Super Bowl didn't make it to Charter. Either.

MoInSTL

01-24-06, 11:04 PM

I gave them a call and they are recommending a Square Shooter as it's supposed to be good for multipath. Now I just need to contact D* to find out how much time, if any, they are willing to let me try it out and if they will come remove it. Or I could go just get the SS and have it mounted. My signal strength fluctuates and while watching Commander in Chief on ABC I had lip synch issues to full drop outs. I also connected the super shooter to a longer cable and tried positioning it in different locations. Having aluminum siding on my house probably compounds things. Argh! I don't know which way to go as I am on a budget.

Mo,

I don't know anything about the antenna your installer is proposing. I don't think antenna selection is a major issue if you're doing a rooftop mount, considering your location (distance isn't your enemy, though multipath might be).

Otherwise, you could check with Skywalker Communications near Wentzville, which (last time I checked) stocks a pretty good line of both ChannelMaster and Winegard antennas. You should be able to match your online recommendations to what they stock.

Skywalker is located at 9390 Veterans Memorial Parkway (off of I-70) in O'Fallon. The phone number is (636) 272-8025.

DroptheRemote

01-25-06, 09:02 AM

Netflix to Stock Blu-Ray, HD-DVD Movie Titles

The following item is from today's TVPredictions.com newsletter:
___________________________________________________

In the 1990s, the DVD was largely ignored when it was first introduced in the marketplace. The reason: most video retailers decided not to carry the new format, choosing instead to keep their shelves stuffed with videotapes.

However, after millions of Americans bought DVD players (and then played purchased DVDs rather than rentals), Blockbuster and other video stores finally gave in and began renting DVDs. The move triggered an explosion in sales of DVD players, leading to speculation that the VCR would soon be extinct. (See below.)

This spring, Sony (Blu-ray) and Toshiba (HD-DVD) will launch two new DVD formats designed to play entire movies in High-Definition. However, it appears that the video rental industry this time will be on board from the start. NetFlix announced yesterday that it will carry titles in both formats when they are launched. And it's likely that Blockbuster and other video retailers will feel compelled to do so as well.

The early support could mean that the high-def DVD will have a bigger impact in 2006 than originally thought. With Toshiba planning to offer HD-DVD players for less than $500 -- and NetFlix offering HD-DVD titles for rent -- many high-def owners will be tempted to take the plunge.
___________________________________________________

Scam1201

01-25-06, 10:31 AM

Newbie here... This local forum is awesome. There's too much information for me. I was up unitl 2AM reading up on the latest and greatest. I still have a few questions.

I just purchased the Samsung HPR4252. I do not currently have digital cable. I currently use charter expanded basic.

If I upgrade to digital cable, will my expanded basic cable channels be digital and if so how would those digital channels compare in quality to direcTV channels?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

skippy_rq

01-25-06, 10:52 AM

Welcome!

Charter recently completed a digital conversion where channels 1-99 are now being simulcast in digital. The quality is comparable to D*

BudShark

01-25-06, 11:03 AM

I didn't realize Charter had completed the conversion... so is it really as good as D*/E*?

The last time I had Charter, their Digital cable was awful. Reds were oversaturated and you could see banding in the reds.

Chris

wmschultz

01-25-06, 11:05 AM

... so is it really as good as D*/E*?

Chris

That's funny......... I don't know how to read into that...

DroptheRemote

01-25-06, 11:07 AM

Welcome, Scam (that's one scary greeting)

It's likely that you would see some nominal improvement in SD picture quality by switching to digital cable, but you shouldn't get your hopes too high. The problem with both cable and satellite standard-definition channel picture quality is that the signals have been compressed to the point where they only marginally resemble the original article.

However, Charter has recently converted to digital channels 2 through 99 for digital cable subscribers, and based on the feedback here that has been a worthwhile improvement, especially when using a DVR.

The consensus seems to be that Charter's standard-def channels look better than DirecTV's standard-def channels, but I don't have the evidence to confirm or refute those assessments.

For me, SD cable vs SD satellite is like a beauty contest where there is no winner. :eek:

I assume that you know that digital cable is not the same as HD -- but many consumers don't, so I'll mention it, just in case...

BudShark

01-25-06, 11:32 AM

That's funny......... I don't know how to read into that...

The scary thing is that Charter had to improve in order to get to D* and E* degraded SD quality... I really think I need to just pull the plug on all pay TV and go OTA with a Netflix and/or Blockbuster online subscription.

On that subject - who has Netflix/Blockbuster? Which is better? I like the Blockbuster 2 free in store rental deal - but I don't know they're commitment or speed of delivery. I know Netflix has a St. Louis hub and it usually is only a 2 day turnaround...

Chris

kdg454

01-25-06, 11:44 AM

black_macleod

01-25-06, 12:23 PM

The scary thing is that Charter had to improve in order to get to D* and E* degraded SD quality... I really think I need to just pull the plug on all pay TV and go OTA with a Netflix and/or Blockbuster online subscription.

On that subject - who has Netflix/Blockbuster? Which is better? I like the Blockbuster 2 free in store rental deal - but I don't know they're commitment or speed of delivery. I know Netflix has a St. Louis hub and it usually is only a 2 day turnaround...

Chris

You do know that Blockbuster often rents edited/censored movies right?

(whispers Usenet)

Anyhow ....... hehe

Scam1201

01-25-06, 12:27 PM

Thanks for the info on the digital. Now for the HD questions

What are my options through c* for HD receiver? Does the receiver have a HDMI output? Do I get a choice or is it a crapshoot as to what receiver I get?
Do I rent this receiver? Cost?

Scott Tucker

01-25-06, 12:32 PM

The scary thing is that Charter had to improve in order to get to D* and E* degraded SD quality... I really think I need to just pull the plug on all pay TV and go OTA with a Netflix and/or Blockbuster online subscription.

On that subject - who has Netflix/Blockbuster? Which is better? I like the Blockbuster 2 free in store rental deal - but I don't know they're commitment or speed of delivery. I know Netflix has a St. Louis hub and it usually is only a 2 day turnaround...

Chris

I wish some service would offer ala carte pricing. Why should I have to pay for MTV, Lifetime, TNN etc. when I never watch them? Ala Carte is the way I'd like to see things go.

Scott

wallyj

01-25-06, 12:52 PM

Doug,

Is it conceivable, in the not to distant future, when purchasing DVD's, we could find a choice of formats between Blu-Ray, HD DVD, added to the now Full or Widescreen DVD's?
Presently, we purchase Widescreen's, as they seem to look best on the 16:9 RPTV. If we do not replace/upgrade our DVD player, when the other formats hit market, would we continue to purchase the same as now?

Absolutely continue buying wide screen, even if you have a 4:3 TV that you watch on. Eventually all our TVs will be “widescreen” and you can be missing more than 30% of the image when purchasing pan and scanned (MAR) DVDs!

MSloss

01-25-06, 12:57 PM

cgh3rd

01-25-06, 02:10 PM

The scary thing is that Charter had to improve in order to get to D* and E* degraded SD quality... I really think I need to just pull the plug on all pay TV and go OTA with a Netflix and/or Blockbuster online subscription.

On that subject - who has Netflix/Blockbuster? Which is better? I like the Blockbuster 2 free in store rental deal - but I don't know they're commitment or speed of delivery. I know Netflix has a St. Louis hub and it usually is only a 2 day turnaround...

Chris

I have been with Netflix since January 2001. The turnaround on their movies is impressive since they added the St. Louis hub. IMO, Blockbuster was one the biggest rip off machines (late fees and high priced DVD rentals for years) around. They'll never see my business again.

Chuck

Mr_Bester

01-25-06, 02:23 PM

I didn't realize Charter had completed the conversion... so is it really as good as D*/E*?

....

Chris

My mother in law has Charter digital and I have D*. The Charter digital is a little cleaner than D*, but that is nothing. The digital cable pixelates and drops to black frequently. The charter service idiot(tech that came to her condo) says it's the TV. I don't have rain fade or any other loss of signal pixelation or blackness on D*, so my vote is for D*.
Dug

jdiehl

01-25-06, 02:31 PM

IMO, Blockbuster was one the biggest rip off machines (late fees and high priced DVD rentals for years) around. They'll never see my business again.

I'd feel the same way about Blockbuster, if I was paying cash. It's outragous what they charge to rent a DVD ($5-6?).

However, I started taking advantage of my Discover Card double cash back offer w/ Blockbuster and can now get what amounts to $2 DVD rentals (new releases included). Discover Card will let you cash in $20 of your built up cash back (which I normally earn each month as I put all of my business expenses, plus gas/groceries on there and pay it off each month) and allow you to buy a packet of 10 free rentals from Blockbuster (new releases included). I started doing this about 5yrs ago and haven't paid for a rental since (the price hasn't changed either, it's always been $20 for 10 rentals). Now that they have no late fees, it even makes more sense. Netflix is great, but it's really only a good value if you're a heavy user (we rent 3-4 per month, at the most).

On a side note, when I first started using my cash back bonus this way, they would send you a single credit card type thing that Blockbuster would swipe each time you used it. It said "10 rentals" on the front, and Blockbuster's computers were supposed to track how many times you had used it, but it never did. I used to be able to milk 15-20 rentals out of a 10 rental card before they'd finally tell me that my card didn't work anymore. I guess that's why they went to a paper coupon system, with 10 coupons in a packet. :D

black_macleod

01-25-06, 02:34 PM

My mother in law has Charter digital and I have D*. The Charter digital is a little cleaner than D*, but that is nothing. The digital cable pixelates and drops to black frequently. The charter service idiot(tech that came to her condo) says it's the TV. I don't have rain fade or any other loss of signal pixelation or blackness on D*, so my vote is for D*.
Dug

My digital cable never does this - ok, not NEVER, but certainly not frequently. Even my Moxi box works well.

I've said it before on here, and I'll say it again - I had E* for 5+ years and the SD channels look much better on Charter. I used to complain to Dish so much about the heavy pixelation, and get all the conversion stories they had to offer. Finally I gave up and got used to it. Maybe that's why the cable looks so good, heh. And my sat would drop out during extreme weather, but for the most part it always was on.

Keep in mind, I don't hate Dish at all .... and I was never a Charter basher cause this is the first time I've had cable in St. Louis. Both have their good parts / bad parts and I'm happy right now. After my first year though, when they jack my rate up (which I'm sure they will) I will probably opt for OTA + other means of viewing movies unless some new technology comes along.

kugumby

01-25-06, 02:37 PM

Netflix

I've been a member off and on for a long time. I have the cheapest plan available right now (something like $10.63/month after taxes) For that, you get one DVD out at a time. As long as you're not a movie squatter, it's a decent plan. You just have to watch the movie relatively quickly in order to make it worth the money. Typically, if I put a DVD in the mail on Monday, they get it on Tuesday and I'll have another DVD by Thursday and sometimes by Wednesday.

The first time I was a member, you could go to the website and tell them that you mailed your DVD and they would ship your next in queue immediately. Then you'd hold the DVD an extra day and they'd pass in the mail. I guess they got wise to that trick and don't allow it anymore. (At least not with the lowest tier plan.)

I used to really hate Blockbuster until they did away with the late fees. Now I don't have a big problem with them. As for my experience with them, I've never rented an edited movie and they typically have the widescreen versions available. It's a decent place to buy previously viewed movies for cheap as well.

[EDIT] "For sale" items are to be confined to the AVS Club section of the forum.

Squirreljam

01-25-06, 02:56 PM

Hi gang, newbie here, though I've been lurking for a couple years. Just hung a new HDTV on my wall this weekend, and this morning Charter installed my cablecard. (Doug, this is Bob that called you on phone yesterday about calibration)

I know general impression of Charter around here isn't high, but my interactions with them have been pretty good. My install appt. was within 3 days of calling, it went very smooth, he left me a (free) high freq. 3 tap splitter for the extra leg I have to install, and he was nice and professional. While I AM a noob at HD, I have had SD (digital) service from them for a number of years, so I can at least say I've been around for a while, and this isn't atypical.

SD quality is pretty good, so I can't complain. HD quality based on going home at lunch ;-) is excellent as expected. TV is a TX-50PX50U Panasonic, build date of Dec 2005; I'm not running surround in the room where the TV is, but will probably do firmware upgrade when it's out so I can in future.

Anyway, I'm damn excited. Now just have to go get OTA antenna and run cable to basement for Superbowl. I'm assuming I won't get OTA via indoor antenna down there.

Squirrel

DroptheRemote

01-25-06, 03:09 PM

Welcome, Bob.

You may be right about not getting an OTA signal in your basement, but I'd say it's still worth a try. You might just get a pleasant surprise...

I look forward to hearing from you once you've got your 75- to 100-hour break-in completed.

Until then, enjoy!

BudShark

01-25-06, 04:11 PM

Just hung a new HDTV on my wall this weekend, and this morning Charter installed my cablecard.

Squirrel

Welcome aboard... whats the cablecard rate from Charter run???

black_macleod

01-25-06, 04:21 PM

Does anyone know when the CableCards will be two way? I almost got one -- cept I wanted to use the Moxi DVR and you get no VOD with cablecard. I can almost live without DVR (and Moxi) but I'm using VOD more than I thought I would, cause its cool :-) I would probably switch once they go two way.

Squirreljam

01-25-06, 05:10 PM

BudShark - cablecard from Charter is $1.50/month. Then, if you already have their Digital service, there are two HD pacs you can get: basic HD and HDNet. One is $3/month and the other is $3.99/month; I can't remember which is which.

In any event, for [an extra] $8.50/month, I get all the HD they have since I already had the premium channels.

Squirrel

MoInSTL

01-25-06, 07:48 PM

Well, as expected the D* OTA antenna was so bad nothing is watchable. The tech split the numbers of degrees and just pointed it there. No adjustment at all. I plugged the silver sensor back in. I think the HD DVR tuner is not as good as my TV tuner.

So called D* to have them send someone back out on Friday and let him get on the roof and be on the phone with me in front of the TV and see if adjusting it will help. If it's still a no go D* will credit me $30 back. Btw, antenna cable run directly in. No diplexors or anything else. Just straight coax in.

Otherwise, I am happy being able to watch the HiDef channels and am recording one already from Discovery HD channel.

Talked to Craig at Skywalker and he is awesome. May try one other antenna from him if adjusting the 2-bay bowtie doesn't work. Logically this one should have worked but getting lots of blocks and not stable. On Friday, if moving the antenna does not work I am tempted to put the silver shooter in a clear plastic bag and use it! ;)

gblues

01-25-06, 07:56 PM

as of yet dtv has not implamented internet nor has a date as to when we will be able to offer it. it is something the we are looking into/ it will be in the form of sta broad band as is direcway/ there is not time frame as to when we will be offer internet but it is something that is on the burner

jdiehl

01-25-06, 08:07 PM

DroptheRemote

01-25-06, 08:26 PM

I really don't understand NBC at all. They've got a Jamie Foxx special on tonight that includes a treasure trove of leading R&B musicians and it's not presented in HD and/or surround sound.

I'm not a particularly big Jamie Foxx fan, though I do like him, as evidenced by the fact that I went to the trouble to TiVo the special. The TiVo decision was prompted primarily by his appearance last night on Leno (which looked pretty nice, known kSDk PQ limitations notwithstanding).

But c'mon, Jamie Foxx is "red hot" and he obviously appeals to an important viewer demographic with tons of crossover appeal. I would think that NBC and his record company would want to do something like this right, if not for the immediate presentation, at least to have the ability to offer this later on in an HD-format DVD for fans.

I see something like this and it seems several light years beyond the planet Stupid. Is it any wonder the record business is in the toilet?

Robert Simandl

01-25-06, 08:46 PM

Doug,

You're talking about the same network/station that last Thanksgiving showed a FAITH HILL concert special in SD and with the 2.0 sound flagged as 5.1.

To make my recording of the concert usuable, I had to clip off the sidebars and reencode the video as 4x3, then remix the "5.1 channel" sound down to 2.0 so at least the Pro Logic decoder can kick in when I play it back.

Mo,

If you're referring to the HD Tivo, you're right. It's not as sensitive as other tuners. Mine often gets macroblocking on 46-1... while the HTL-HD in the basement and the FusionHDTV card in my PC have no problem with the same signal from the same antenna.

Scam1201

01-25-06, 09:07 PM

DroptheRemote

01-25-06, 10:56 PM

Jim,

I just wanted to say that watching "Lost" tonight with 5.1 sound was great.

Thanks again for getting that working.

duvy56

01-25-06, 11:48 PM

redwine

01-25-06, 11:52 PM

Netflix, Blockbuster.....when will I be able to download my movie on demand. Also, since this is the HD forum, when will I be able to download my HD movie. Why can't Charter offer their movies-on-demand service (which is a BIG advantage over satellite) in HD? When these services exist, cable and other high speed ISP providers will have a huge advantage.

audiolocator

01-26-06, 12:39 AM

George Lopez lip sync was off the first few minutes of the show, but it was fixed shortly after. It seems they are getting the hang of the 5.1 now

kugumby

01-26-06, 12:52 AM

No problem Duv. Have you checked Boltz steel furniture? It's not for everybody, but it's a thought. The link below is to their "Build your own TVXL Stand" web page.

http://www.boltz.com/productinfo.asp?item=256&deptcode1=503

Outlaw Audio also sells some stuff that might work.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/racks_video.html

(Don't know how either of these stack up as far as price, since I haven't priced any TV stands. Mine came with my TV.)

DroptheRemote

01-26-06, 07:21 AM

duvy,

One thing that you need to take into consideration in racking all of your equipment in your TV stand -- the height of the stand and how that affects the placement of the TV relative to your viewing position.

Ideally you want to have the center of the screen aimed at your nose when you're sitting in the viewing sweet spot. With a rear-projection television, once you begin to move the screen significantly above- or below-axis from the viewing sweet spot, you may run into brightness uniformity issues.

All RPTVs are brighter at the center of the screen than they are at the edges. Your eye will normally compensate for this issue, and improved RPTV screen technology has minimized this problem in recent years, but this can still become a picture quality issue if you go too far off-axis.

There is also a viewing comfort issue that could enter the equation, if your TV is up too high in relation to the viewing sweet spot. This is why putting a plasma or LCD TV above a fireplace is not as desirable as it might seem on first blush.

If you find a pedestal rack that allows you to store equipment below the TV two across (4 components high x 2 across), the height of the stand will be closing in on 40 inches. That might be OK, but going much higher than that is probably not a great idea.

DroptheRemote

01-26-06, 07:35 AM

wallyj

01-26-06, 09:12 AM

Looking for a TV stand for my 50" SXRD that will also hold my components ( 6-8 pieces). Already checked UE, BB, CC and American. Can't seem to find one with the shelves spaced wide enough apart for my cc ( 9 1/16"). Does anybody else know where I might look. Thanks again kugumby

Might try http://www.racksandstands.com/ too, the Plateau stuff looks cool. I have a couple Boltz racks (for DVDs) and they are nice. They run sales several times a year, so you might look for one. I've got a Bello TV stand for my 55" and have been happy with it, but you are smart to be wary of the shelve separation for the center channel.

Scott Tucker

01-26-06, 09:30 AM

Just called c* to order the HD/digital set-up. I asked about a DVR to go along w/ the package and was told they did not have DVRs anymore and did not think they would for a long time. Not being sure that was the way I wanted to go, I didn't order the service.

I reconsidered, figuring I could go w/o DVR, and called back to order 10 minutes later. Now DVRs are in stock and I have installation scheduled for next Friday. hmmmm.... I wonder if I'll actually get one :D

Overall I spoke w/ 4 techs today at c*. 2 seemed annoyed that I had questions, 1 was extremely helpful, and another was very pushy w/ a sports tier.

Funny, my wife had a few woman over last night for a cooking club deal. Anyway, the women started talking about Charter, so I started to listen. My one neighbor was saying she has been on the DVR waiting list for over 4 months. I told her to call today, and they would probably be in stock. What a joke of a company.

Scott

MSloss

01-26-06, 10:28 AM

FWIW, I did see minor problems with lip sync during "Lost" but it wasn't so far off that it was completely distracting.

I noticed it more at the start of the show than the end, but part of that was probably adaptation.

I had the lip sync issue and it seemed to fluctuate from hardly noticable to annoyingly noticable. Also, the sound just dropped out for a second or two several times. Did you have that, too?

Mike

black_macleod

01-26-06, 10:35 AM

I think the Universe is telling you guys to not watch "Lost." After all, there was a hockey game on :-)

Tom Grooms

01-26-06, 10:47 AM

Whats hockey? ;)

black_macleod

01-26-06, 10:59 AM

oh man

Robert Simandl

01-26-06, 11:05 AM

Re: KDNL 5.1

I had the lip sync issue and it seemed to fluctuate from hardly noticable to annoyingly noticable. Also, the sound just dropped out for a second or two several times. Did you have that, too?

I remember some sync issues (and some stuttering issues) when KDNL started HD broadcasting in the first place a few years back. They were fixed within a couple of weeks. Fairly safe bet the new sync issues will be fixed in a similar amount of time.

I for one am really impressed that KDNL (Jim) is able to get this up and running in the first place, given the seeming indifference of the corporate parent.

MSloss

01-26-06, 11:09 AM

Re: KDNL 5.1

I remember some sync issues (and some stuttering issues) when KDNL started HD broadcasting in the first place a few years back. They were fixed within a couple of weeks. Fairly safe bet the new sync issues will be fixed in a similar amount of time.

I for one am really impressed that KDNL (Jim) is able to get this up and running in the first place, given the seeming indifference of the corporate parent.

Amen, brother!

dweebe

01-26-06, 11:14 AM

I was at the gym last night doing cardio between 6:30 and 7:15pm. The TV right in front of me had "Wheel of Fortune" on. During WOF they had 6 ads about kSDk news going high def during that time. Varying from quick "bumpers" to full 30 second ads.

Just hope they can get it right on Feb. 6 when it rolls out.

BTW: I saw the start of the Jamie Foxx special. Was he the only dude in the place? I think the crowd was 99.9% women.

If he goes on tour and my girlfriend wants me to go, I'm all there. (Almost same thing occured with Rob Thomas last winter at the Robert's theater. Crowd was 80% women with the other 20% being boyfriends/husbands being dragged along.)

DroptheRemote

01-26-06, 11:37 AM

Yes, there were maybe a half dozen audio dropouts during "Lost" last night.

I also recorded "Invasion," but haven't watched that yet. Have to save some goodies for the weekend evening lull...

kalon74

01-26-06, 12:12 PM

Wondered how long it would take for someone to notice! We started Thursday night. There were a lot of problems getting this to work properly and as noticed the lip sync is way off. It is difficult to work on sync without a test signal, so there may be times in the AM when we'll need to put a test signal on the air. The switch to 5.1 is on a temporary switch so you may see a slight delay going to the 5.1. We'll be working on these issues this week. Any comments are welcome as I can't monitor 5.1 at home....yet.

As far as HD on Charter....comments about "Must Carry" are correct. In the past stations almost always elected Must Carry at no charge to the cable company. But the cable companys pay for all the other channels you see and in a competitive world where broadcast shares are shrinking, more and more companys will want to be compensated as the other cable program providers are. Better get an antenna for the Super Bowl, but don't get me involved in this debate, I have no control over it!!!
Jim

Hi Jim,

I hadn't watched much TV since last week, but was pleasantly surprised to see Lost in 5.1 last night. I did notice several audio dropouts and lip-sync issues. Same with Invasion. I haven't watched Commander in Chief, Desperate Housewives, or Boston Legal yet, but I suspect those will show the same problems. Anything specific we can do to help with any of those issues? Or just keep reporting when they are noticed?

Thanks again!

black_macleod

01-26-06, 12:15 PM

Since we so often bash things on here, I'd like to say how GOOD HDNet is. Of course their programming is sort of limited and/or repetitious, but the quality of picture and sound is outstanding. The way HD broadcasting should be done!

I love their coverage of hockey across the NHL. Beautiful games. I also recorded a Whitesnake concert for my GF, and while I'm not a huge Coverdale era Whitesnake fan, I watched it with her and it was excellent. The 5.1 sound was truly awesome. Occasionally HDNet Movies will show some good films too. I'm getting spoiled with the HBOHD and CinemaxHD as well - which I get because I got the movie tier for free for 3 months when I signed up. Don't know if I'll actually pay for them after, maybe Charter will just forget to turn them off :) I find all their channels just play the same set of movies over and over, so ...... we'll see.

MoInSTL

01-26-06, 12:38 PM

No I haven't. I just got the TV on Sunday. Bought the silver sensor and took it from there. The attic isn't an option. A roof mount installed and adjusted is pretty expenisive and with the aircraft causing so much multipath I may be out of luck with anything. I read a reply in another forum here and the guy tried 4 different antennas (yagi included) and is using a CM 4228. That thing is huge and expensive to mount. I just can't try out a bunch of different antennas and will tolerate only so many holes in my roof. Already the guy yesterday moved my sat and there is a foot plate still bolted to the center of the roof. I made him pull that sticky stuff over it and apply silicon (belt & suspenders). He re-ran the lines and they are properly grounded now (they weren't before and sat dish ground was loosely wound around electrical box mast). :eek: There is little clearance in my attic so I can't try them out there instead. :(

All I can do is wait to see tomorrow if tuning the 2B bowtie antenna will help. I'll go back and see which CM Mike has. I have a 10% off coupon for Lowes.

Sorry to sound so down but the amount of research and differing opnions is frustrating and time consuming.

Have you tried a yagi style antenna yet? I'm sure it would work just fine at your distance. That's what Mike (MSloss) is using (ChannelMaster purchased at Lowe's) and I've used them for nearly 5yrs without much issue.

MSloss

01-26-06, 02:16 PM

All I can do is wait to see tomorrow if tuning the 2B bowtie antenna will help. I'll go back and see which CM Mike has. I have a 10% off coupon for Lowes.

I have a CM 3016 and it is about 6' long. There was one model bigger, but too big for the attic.

I got it to feed VHF & UHF so I didn't have to have a sat receiver for every TV, but now I am using an in-line UHF amp from Radio Shack to maximize the HD signals.

Mike

MoInSTL

01-26-06, 02:29 PM

Mike thanks for the info. Why such a beast? Are you far from the towers? Or to power all the sets in your house?

I just moved to STL from PHX in late November so I have had my hands full with other things like a new furnace, a new gas dryer, new linoleum in kitchen & bath and lots of other amounts of cash going out I won't bore you with. My 46" Mits having severe geometry problems was not in my budget. So I am not only trying to figure out the best antenna for multicast but the most cost effective soluton which is why am still trying on the 2B bowtie for now. D* contractor is due back tomorrow to try adjusting it on the roof while I watch inside.

I have a CM 3016 and it is about 6' long. There was one model bigger, but too big for the attic.

I got it to feed VHF & UHF so I didn't have to have a sat receiver for every TV, but now I am using an in-line UHF amp from Radio Shack to maximize the HD signals.

Mike

dbears

01-26-06, 05:34 PM

jdiehl

01-26-06, 05:58 PM

Quick update on DirecTV mpeg4 upgrades and St. Louis.....

I called them today to setup my move and transfer of service from Houston to St. Louis and used their mover's program, again (3rd time in 2yrs now). They're installing the new 5-LNB dish for me on March 3rd, as well as replacing one of my existing HD receivers with the new mpeg4 capable HD receiver, for free. I actually have a total of 4 HD receivers (one being a Tivo) but they could only replace one of them at no charge. Any additional would be $99 each. They asked for a 2yr commitment, which was fine with me (I'm only 8 months into my last 1yr re-up from the previous move, hehe). The standard mover's deal (free install of existing equipment + new dish) was 1yr commitment, but with the new mpeg4 stuff and receiver upgrade, it made it 2yrs.

Anyway, the rep told me that May '06 is the current estimate for local digital's to be available in St. Louis. I'm not sure what kind of dates had been thrown around in the past, but that seems pretty early IMO (I was figuring Q1 2007?). Since they do not have a HD DVR that's mpeg4, I won't be replacing my HD Tivo any time soon, but at least I'll have one receiver capable of picking up our new digital locals via DirecTV when the time comes (to report in and give feedback here).

RaceTripper

01-26-06, 06:05 PM

Any idea when the MPEG4 HD DVR will be available for D*. I won't upgrade until I can get that.

wallyj

01-26-06, 06:07 PM

DroptheRemote

01-26-06, 06:21 PM

Mike,

There is professional equipment available that allows a component color signal to be input and recorded in HD. Of course, this gear is quite expensive, and not likely to be something within the reach of the typical consumer.

But for a determined pirate organization, it's just another cost of doing business.

As I've said before, I think Hollywood seriously underestimates the march of technology and the challenge/determination they create/foster when they impose unreasonable restraints on our use of the programming and hardware we're paying for.

I still think the lesson of the "Seinfeld" DVDs is Exhibit A in proving that piracy is ultimately a non-event. Every consumer in the country has had hundreds of opportunities to watch (and "steal") every single episode of Seinfeld ever filmed. Yet, the Seinfeld DVDs are the biggest-selling TV series on DVD ever, producing revenues of well over $200 million to date.

What truly puzzles me about this: If Hollywood really believed that piracy devastates the value of its intellectual property, why in the world did they even bother to release those Seinfeld box sets? It's not like they weren't available for viewing for free.

The answer, of course, is they don't believe that piracy destroys their assets, and deep down know that if they provide consumers with the product they want, in the form they want, people will reach down into their pockets and pull out the cash.

The real problem with Hollywood, like any other business, is that hits are hard to come by. And like any other busiiness, butt-covering and finger-pointing fill the void.

jdiehl

01-26-06, 06:23 PM

Any idea when the MPEG4 HD DVR will be available for D*. I won't upgrade until I can get that.

I asked him that, but he couldn't tell me (didn't know).

I told him that I didn't really need/want the mpeg4 upgrade now, but when he put in my install date (3/03/06) it came up as an automatic for the 5LNB dish and it wouldn't be an extra charge (I guess they don't want to install the 3LNB one's and then have to potentially replace them in a few months). The free receiver upgrade is what tacked on the additional year commitment from the standard 1yr for the mover's program, so I figured what the hell. I don't really want it yet (not until they can give me something as good or better as my HD Tivo), but figured what the hell (since my HD Tivo and other mpeg2 stuff will work fine, I'll just have to keep my antenna up).

If I wasn't moving or having to get a new dish put up anyway, I wouldn't want to upgrade either. Keep in mind though, that if you do want the 5LNB dish, you don't have to give up your HD Tivo or antenna. It just gives you the option to pull in the digital locals plus any new HD channels that come out (which should all be mpeg4). He said the handful of existing mpeg2 HD channels would all eventually be switched to mpeg4 as well, making any and all existing mpeg2 equipment incapable of getting HD content (but I'm assuming that "eventually" means, 3-5yrs?). I can't see them pissing off the thousands of HD Tivo owners that have invested in new equipment like that by turning off mpeg2 completely, at least not for year's from now.

DroptheRemote

01-26-06, 06:26 PM

The last thing I've heard or read about DirecTV's MPEG-4 HD DVR is that it is supposed to be available sometime in July.

Keith1958

01-26-06, 07:21 PM

I have an Sharp Aquos 45 LCD. It came with TV Guide On Screen service which worked fine until the beginning of January. I've contacted Charter, Sharp and KETC 9 but none have been any help.

TVG OS just states "No Listings" with the wrong date and time.

Any suggestions

MoInSTL

01-26-06, 07:22 PM

I heard about the 5 LNB sat and MPEG-4 format DVR so I had them agree to give me new equipment free since I got to the party so late. I have the name and employee number and called back to check the notes were there. ;)

I asked him that, but he couldn't tell me (didn't know).

I told him that I didn't really need/want the mpeg4 upgrade now, but when he put in my install date (3/03/06) it came up as an automatic for the 5LNB dish and it wouldn't be an extra charge (I guess they don't want to install the 3LNB one's and then have to potentially replace them in a few months). The free receiver upgrade is what tacked on the additional year commitment from the standard 1yr for the mover's program, so I figured what the hell. I don't really want it yet (not until they can give me something as good or better as my HD Tivo), but figured what the hell (since my HD Tivo and other mpeg2 stuff will work fine, I'll just have to keep my antenna up).

If I wasn't moving or having to get a new dish put up anyway, I wouldn't want to upgrade either. Keep in mind though, that if you do want the 5LNB dish, you don't have to give up your HD Tivo or antenna. It just gives you the option to pull in the digital locals plus any new HD channels that come out (which should all be mpeg4). He said the handful of existing mpeg2 HD channels would all eventually be switched to mpeg4 as well, making any and all existing mpeg2 equipment incapable of getting HD content (but I'm assuming that "eventually" means, 3-5yrs?). I can't see them pissing off the thousands of HD Tivo owners that have invested in new equipment like that by turning off mpeg2 completely, at least not for year's from now.

MoInSTL

01-26-06, 07:25 PM

I don't use it and have a Samsung, I thought I might use it though and Samsung said turn it off, on, off and unplug it for 30 seconds. May want to give it a try. No idea if this will work...

I have an Sharp Aquos 45 LCD. It came with TV Guide On Screen service which worked fine until the beginning of January. I've contacted Charter, Sharp and KETC 9 but none have been any help.

TVG OS just states "No Listings" with the wrong date and time.

Any suggestions

kdg454

01-26-06, 09:26 PM

If you are a Dish sub, and have a waiver from KDNL for distant locals, E* announced today, it has reached an agreement with ABC for a single-day broadcast of the national ABC HD feed of Super Bowl XL, to the 10 ABC O&O markets in the US.
If you don't have a waiver, now may be a good time to consider trying to getting one.
Dish charges $1.50/mo for each distant local. Not everyone can get approved for waivers, but if you have HD capabilities, and no OTA, it may be worth a shot.
The turn-around time for waiver application is only about 5 days.

wolverine5767

01-26-06, 09:45 PM

jdiehl

01-26-06, 09:52 PM

I heard about the 5 LNB sat and MPEG-4 format DVR so I had them agree to give me new equipment free since I got to the party so late. I have the name and employee number and called back to check the notes were there. ;)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the HD DVR's are going to be free for existing HD Tivo owners, that's the rumor anyway based on press reports. I'm not worried about that, it's my other 1 or 2 HD receivers that I'm debating if I should upgrade now (trying to get them to do the extras for free and not $99 each) or wait until I actually need them.

RaceTripper

01-26-06, 10:24 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the HD DVR's are going to be free for existing HD Tivo owners, that's the rumor anyway based on press reports.
That is also what I've been hearing. I only got mine last September ($199 after credit/rebate with a 1 year commitment), but would hope when the new one is ready I don't have to spend money again.

thatsjustsuper

01-26-06, 10:58 PM

Keith,

You have a PM.

jdiehl

01-26-06, 11:00 PM

That is also what I've been hearing. I only got mine last September ($199 after credit/rebate with a 1 year commitment), but would hope when the new one is ready I don't have to spend money again.

Ditto, except I got it in June (for free after credit/rebate/free programming). :)

Even when then new one is available, I won't jump right to it though, I love the Tivo interface.

jbader

01-26-06, 11:31 PM

StLouG

01-26-06, 11:39 PM

I will not get into a long story since this is off topic. Somehow my Charter Phone Service got disconnected. This all happened after I decided to switch to SBC in order to get their DSL service only to find out that it is not offered in my area. Cancelled the order and SBC was suppose to let Charter know. Somehow things got confused and it left me with no phone service. It is a very confusing story but I feel that both were to blame. Charter wanted to charge me a $30.00 reconnected fee plus put me at a higher payment plan. They said the particular package I was on had gone up in price. I called them with 12 hours of having my phone service disconnected. They were rude and blamed me for everything. SBC was willing to work with me and had my service up and running in less than 24 hours. Plus they gave me a large amount of credits and offered my a pay scale less than what charter was willing to give me. SBC even gave me my old phone number. SBC CSR is great and the quality is much better than Charter.

Ok while the SBC tech was here for the phone installation. He stated that the Mehville Area was going to be a test area for a new fiber optical type HD television service by the end of the year. This was not going to be connected with their current DISH service but something new. He had no other information on the matter. He also said that my area would have DSL by the end of May 06.

If this is true this will give us another option than the ones we have now.

RaceTripper

01-27-06, 08:12 AM

Ditto, except I got it in June (for free after credit/rebate/free programming). :)

Even when then new one is available, I won't jump right to it though, I love the Tivo interface.
I'm with you on that. I also love having the commercial skip feature and the new DVR won't have that.

Scott Tucker

01-27-06, 09:21 AM

Scott Tucker

01-27-06, 09:34 AM

That is also what I've been hearing. I only got mine last September ($199 after credit/rebate with a 1 year commitment), but would hope when the new one is ready I don't have to spend money again.

Do you all think I should get an HD DVR now instead of waiting for the new ones? I would hate to think that I wasted money if they will charge for the new one in a few months. :confused:

Scott

RaceTripper

01-27-06, 09:40 AM

Do you all think I should get an HD DVR now instead of waiting for the new ones? I would hate to think that I wasted money if they will charge for the new one in a few months. :confused:

Scott
I would. It's great having a HD Tivo. I can't imagine not having one now that I've been using it for a while. When the new ones come out, tell D* you're not paying for it & if they don't like it your switch to Dish. They really don't like losing customers, especially long term ones.

Robert Simandl

01-27-06, 10:18 AM

I would. It's great having a HD Tivo. I can't imagine not having one now that I've been using it for a while. When the new ones come out, tell D* you're not paying for it & if they don't like it your switch to Dish. They really don't like losing customers, especially long term ones.

That goes especially if you have good OTA reception. The only reason to switch for a while would be HD locals in MPEG-4. If you get good reception of the locals without *D's help, hold on to the HD Tivo until they start adding some national MPEG-4 HD channels. That's what I'm going to do.

MoInSTL

01-27-06, 10:22 AM

Do you all think I should get an HD DVR now instead of waiting for the new ones? I would hate to think that I wasted money if they will charge for the new one in a few months. :confused:

Scott

I can appreciate your concern, give them a call and ask them to give you a free one with the 5 LNB when they come out. That's what I did. Make sure you get their name and internal employee ID number after they tell you they added the notes to your account.

I picked up one of the first standalone TiVos and am on my 5th one now. The standalone w/lifetime subscription I gave to my sister and is still working. I can't imagine TV without a TiVo as I avoid watching live TV anymore.

I managed mine for $200 minus:
$80 onetime credit
$99 install waived
$14.95 handling waived
$10 credit for 12 months
6 months of Showtime (gives me one more HD channel)
3 months free HD package but above 12 month $10 credit will cover all but $1 of HD channels after 3 months.

I had to call back twice as the first person in cutomer retention qouted me $399 and was not budging. I've only been with D* for a little over 4 years.

Edit: I just got mine delivered Wednesday.

turls

01-27-06, 10:34 AM

I for one am really impressed that KDNL (Jim) is able to get this up and running in the first place, given the seeming indifference of the corporate parent.

Agreed, however, I feel slight frustration in the fact that the last time I hosted a Super Bowl party, the game was on ABC (so we are talking 3 years ago), but I had to point my antenna towards Springfield, IL for some reason (can't remember what the issues were with KDNL-DT at that time). That affiliate is now NBC, so I can't do that again--but guess what the issue I had with that broadcast--lip synch!

But in any case, I'm glad this is finally working out.

turls

01-27-06, 10:39 AM

Directv sent me an email last night stating that because I was such a great customer, I could have a free reconditioned DVR simply by paying $14.95 shipping. Don't need it, but pretty cool for them to offer.
Scott

I thought that at first too, but they are just getting rid of MPEG2 gear, and they said "no catch" at the top (I thought about getting one for a spare), but then they go on in the fine print to threaten the $150 charge if you don't activate in x number of days.

GlendaleHDTV

01-27-06, 11:14 AM

Hi,
Just got a Sony 60" SXRD and Charter is coming out to install HD and a Moxie. I could not get any good info out of the reps.

Is the Moxie have a DVI, HDMI, component or some combination? I want to make sure I have the proper cable when they show-up.

Are there any FAQs floating around on Charter/Moxie setups?

Thanks,
Jack

Not necessarily Charter specific, but everything you ever wanted to know about the Moxi and its setup is here:

Moxi FAQ (http://users.adelphia.net/~ksoltmann/SPLMoxiFAQ.htm)

djearl81

01-27-06, 11:17 AM

SBC was willing to work with me and had my service up and running in less than 24 hours. Plus they gave me a large amount of credits and offered my a pay scale less than what charter was willing to give me. SBC even gave me my old phone number. SBC CSR is great and the quality is much better than Charter.

Ok while the SBC tech was here for the phone installation. He stated that the Mehville Area was going to be a test area for a new fiber optical type HD television service by the end of the year. This was not going to be connected with their current DISH service but something new. He had no other information on the matter. He also said that my area would have DSL by the end of May 06.

If this is true this will give us another option than the ones we have now.

I'm glad that you had a positive experience with SBC/AT&T. If your still unahppy, or you have issues in the future, please let me know. I can't tell you when things will be available to you because I'm not that high on the ladder. However, If your service suffers, I should be able to help.

AT&T is rolling out IPTV to different parts of the country. Right now, the first market to have it is San Antonio, TX (our headquarters.) Also, the technology is pretty new and it's only SD TV channels at this point, but the HD channels are in the works and should available in abundance by the time it reaches St. Louis.

As far as the 'HD network' goes, it'll be a fiber to the curb network. When it's available to you, you'll be able to get all the IP based AT&T services (VOIP phone service, DSL, and IPTV) from one source. If you choose, you can also have AT&T/Cingular wireless too...all on one bill with incentives for having more services. The goal is to have all the services and equiptment woking together. Your cell phone can be used to program your DVR...that type of stuff. Should be pretty neat when it gets here.

Of course...I'm kind of biased.

Scott Tucker

01-27-06, 12:19 PM

That goes especially if you have good OTA reception. The only reason to switch for a while would be HD locals in MPEG-4. If you get good reception of the locals without *D's help, hold on to the HD Tivo until they start adding some national MPEG-4 HD channels. That's what I'm going to do.

That makes sense too because I cannot use diplexers with the new MPEG 4 receivers apparently. Since I already get locals via antenna, there really is no reason to get the mpeg4 boxes i guess.

Scott

StLouG

01-27-06, 12:33 PM

AT&T is rolling out IPTV to different parts of the country. Right now, the first market to have it is Dallas, TX (our headquarters.) Also, the technology is pretty new and it's only SD TV channels at this point, but the HD channels are in the works and should available in abundance by the time it reaches St. Louis.

As far as the 'HD network' goes, it'll be a fiber to the curb network. When it's available to you, you'll be able to get all the IP based AT&T services (VOIP phone service, DSL, and IPTV) from one source. If you choose, you can also have AT&T/Cingular wireless too...all on one bill with incentives for having more services. The goal is to have all the services and equiptment woking together. Your cell phone can be used to program your DVR...that type of stuff. Should be pretty neat when it gets here.

Of course...I'm kind of biased.

djearl81 so far so good but I wish had I had DSL. I had a problem with a clicking noise and they sent out a tech and the problem was resolved within 24 hours. The IPTV sounds like something that will really be interesting when it gets here. I was not sure of the tech jargon but I knew you would clear up the situation for me. Thanks. Please keep us informed on the progress in our area.

deuces

01-27-06, 01:13 PM

I'm sure most of you have read this. If not it is somewhat interesting.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/dancaesar/story/A953661CFAC34087862570FD001A1D71?OpenDocument

jdiehl

01-27-06, 02:25 PM

That makes sense too because I cannot use diplexers with the new MPEG 4 receivers apparently. Since I already get locals via antenna, there really is no reason to get the mpeg4 boxes i guess.

Scott

Yeah, if OTA comes in fine for you, the only reason then to do the mpeg4 upgrade is for new mpeg4 HD channels (which they all will be from this point forward). Also, eventually the current HD channels will be switched to mpeg4. It's anyone's guess as to how long that will be before they turn off the mpeg2 HD stuff though.

WRacer

01-27-06, 06:43 PM

Thanks for comments on audio issues. Made more changes today, but it was difficult to check without putting it on the air. Hopefully lipsync will be better tonight. We're chaseing the intermitant audio drop out problem...looks like it may be a software issue.
Jim

rthomp03

01-27-06, 07:18 PM

I think ditching the Weather Plus channel during prime time and maybe even the Late Show would be a fair compromise.

Clearly, they'll never get rid of it. They're hyping it like crazy and its probably doing a lot of good revenue for them. I know lots of people who want digital for that very reason. Yeah... I know.
They might be hyping it like crazy but it's worthless. When we had the severe weather roll through during the night a couple weeks ago, I tuned in to 5.2 to get information and they were just running the same old crap. Not even the local radar loop! What's up with that? :mad:

rpj795

01-27-06, 10:08 PM

I am a proud new owner of a DLP Samsung with a HR1-250. I have the box hook up to a Pioneer RV with a Digital cable. My question is that sometimes my HD feeds on off on lip sync when I go thought the receiver. If I just use the speakers on the TV it is fine. Again, it only happens on HD channels. I don't understand why the lip sync is off though the RV and not the TV. Any ideas what is causing this problem?

repair4man

01-28-06, 12:14 AM

Aw Crud! If HD Sports Guide is correct, the Daytona 500 will be broadcast on NBC this year. I didn’t convert to HD till past the halfway point of last season, so my only experience is with the lame NBC’s poorly flagged sound and PQ. Was looking forward to Daytona on FOX. Anyone know if that means NBC will have the first half of the season this year? Could have sworn I'd seen promos for Daytona on FOX.

Hang in there! The old deal which took effect in 2001 had Fox broadcasting Daytona 500 in odd numbered years and NBC got the even years.

The new deal, starting in 2007 gives Fox the rights to the Daytona 500 every year for the duration: http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001656721 Of course there's always a down side, Fox's schedule is reduced to 13 races TNT, ESPN, and ABC share the rest.

kdg454

01-28-06, 12:18 AM

Anyone watch/record Ghost Whisper tonight and have it run about 45 seconds past the hour? It did the same on the local KMOV and national CBS HD feeds.
Wondering if my timers set/fired correctly.

tcfila

01-28-06, 09:10 AM

From todays post:
The dispute that figures to keep the high definition telecast of the Super Bowl off the area's largest cable TV carrier has caused consternation for viewers, but it's part of a boom in business for a local company providing an alternative.

The standoff, between Charter Communications and the Sinclair Broadcast Group centers on money. Sinclair owns KDNL (Channel 30), which will relay ABC's coverage of the game Feb. 5. Sinclair wants to be paid by Charter for providing it with the HD signal. Charter, which supplies the service to more than 90 percent of the area's cable TV subscribers, is refusing to pay. It's a policy Sinclair, which has an interest in more than 60 stations nationwide, has adopted everywhere.

"There was not any movement between Charter and Sinclair," KDNL general manager Tom Tipton said. "Unfortunately, it is a much bigger issue than St. Louis. There are many other markets in play as well."

The HD signals of the local St. Louis stations aren't available to satellite TV subscribers.

But KDNL's high definition signal can be picked up free over the air. Additional equipment - a tuner and an antenna - is needed in many cases.

Brett Barker, a sales representative at the Goedeker's store in Ballwin, said about 75 percent of HD television sets currently being sold have a built-in tuner.

For those whose sets don't have a tuner, Barker said they can be purchased for about $150. He said Goedeker's doesn't carry them, but some other electronics stores do. Barker also said: "You'll need some type of antenna to pull the signal in over the air. Depending on where you are, you may need a rooftop aerial. But in some cases, you can use rabbit ears."

Antennas Direct, a company based in Wildwood, specializes in such devices. The firm's president, Richard Schneider, said the antennas sell for as little as $18 and that business is booming.

"Ninety percent of the population doesn't know you can get HD with an antenna. The fact there is no monthly fee to the viewer (via cable or satellite bills) for this superior image is just icing on the cake."

In the St. Louis market, the antenna picks up only over-the-air stations, not pay services such as ESPN and FSN Midwest.

"As for installation, connecting an antenna to a television requires no special technical skills and in most cases is less difficult than connecting a DVD player," Schneider said. "Additionally, the image quality from (over-the-air) digital reception is vastly superior to that of digital cable, in that there is no compression or alteration of the HD signal when using an off-air antenna as your source."

He knows that many consumers don't comprehend a lot of the technical side of the HD business. However, the current flap between Charter and Sinclair pointedly gets customers' attention.

"When you say you can't get the Super Bowl in HD (over the air) without an antenna, even my grandmother can understand that," he said.

Schneider said his nationwide business grew out of his garage as a hobby after he was having trouble receiving KMOV, and that his sales have been doubling about every 120 days. He expects to sell about 4,500 this month.

"We have had to add production in order to keep up with skyrocketing demand," he said.

and now the good news:

Redbirds galore

For the second consecutive year, all 162 Cardinals games are scheduled to appear on local television stations. However, because one game last season ended up not airing, this would be the first time for the Cards' entire schedule to be on the local airwaves.

A Redbirds contest last September ended up not making the local FSN Midwest airwaves because of logistical problems at FSN's master control center in Houston related to a hurricane.

This season, FSN Midwest is scheduled to televise 110 contests and KPLR (Channel. 11) 41 games. About 30 of those will be in high definition. The Fox network (KTVI, Channel 2) will carry eight Redbirds contests on a regional basis, and ESPN will air three nationally.

Saluki

01-28-06, 12:45 PM

mclark98

01-28-06, 12:48 PM

Hello all,

I've been lurking for quite a while here, and I finally took the plunge and purchased a HDTV. I'm in the O'Fallon, MO area, and Charter should be here in a few hours to install my Moxi box with the Mate service. I'm very frustrated that I won't be getting the SuperBowl over Charter, but I suppose I can always watch it live without a DVR (gasp!). Very good news about Cardinals in high def, though.

One quick question - anyone know if Charter is going to bring a set of component cables for my install, or should I be furnishing those?

I'll report back on my Moxi install if anyone is interested. Thanks for the great forum!

dominicr

01-28-06, 01:09 PM

Kurt K

01-28-06, 01:32 PM

In anticipation of the Super Bowl (excuse me, "Big Game" as I'm not an official sponsor), I just tried a cheapie Philips set-top antenna. My KDNL signal is quite strong. Now my problem is that I chose not to mount the detachable speakers that came with my 1130 Elite Plasma. Does anyone have any idea what the audio sync will be like if I listen to the game via the radio & watch the OTA signal?
I've hosted "Big Game" parties the last few years getting the HD signal via OTA, one TV via D* and the other 2 TV's via analog OTA (I don't have coax in my bathroom :) ). All of the different signals air at a different time. I'm not sure why, but the OTA HD signal is delayed a bit behind the analog signal. I think the D* delay was even longer, but I can't remember for sure.

Anyway, I'm almost positive that the radio signal will "ahead" of the OTA signal.

DroptheRemote

01-28-06, 01:57 PM

Saluki,

If the Elite 1130 is like the recent model Elite plasmas (x10s and x20s), you should be able to connect the antenna to your media receiver, and then route the digital audio from the MR to your A/V receiver. There should be no need to have the speakers connected.

There will almost certainly be a considerable delay between radio audio and HD video (with HD trailing), so that's not likely to be a satisfactory solution (but then it shouldn't be needed).

As for analog and digital lags, I've found that recently the digital feed often tends to be ahead of the analog feed. For example, the ESPN HDs are typically ahead of the analog ESPNs. For the OTA stations, it comes down to the networks -- sometimes the digital is ahead, and sometimes not.

Finally, I'd just like to note that ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD is carrying SIX live events today -- five college basketball games and a college all-star football game. Lots of people (not so much here as elsewhere on AVS) have bellyached that there shouldn't be a second ESPN HD channel until the primary ESPN channel is 100 percent HD.

I think today's schedule is a great way to illustrate how flawed that thinking is -- and it's also a testament to what a great job ESPN is doing in bringing HD sports front and center.

FWIW, with the CBS HD game today, we have a choice of six NCAA basketball games in HD.

Not too shabby...