St. Louis, MO - HDTV *OLD* [Text View] - Page 42

BudShark

01-29-06, 11:57 AM

Sorry if this is a duplicate - Its from KMOVs website.

All 162 regular-season Cardinals games to be televised

09:51 AM CST on Friday, January 27, 2006

St. Louis (AP) -- If you can't get to the new Busch Stadium this season, you'll still have plenty of opportunity to see the St. Louis Cardinals.

In fact, all 162 regular-season Cardinals games will be televised in 2006, the team announced Thursday, including about 30 games broadcast in high definition on Fox Sports Net Midwest and KPLR-TV.

FSN Midwest will televise 110 regular-season games, along with spring training games on March 19 against Atlanta and March 26 against Florida. The home opener against Milwaukee, the first-ever game at the new ballpark, will be on FSN Midwest on April 10.

KPLR will carry 41 games this year, including the season opener April 3 in Philadelphia. KPLR will also broadcast one spring training game, March 25 against the Dodgers.

KPLR is the flagship station of the Cardinals Television Network, which consists of 30 over-the-air stations across nine states -- Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, Tennessee, Indiana, Arkansas, Kentucky, Arizona and Oklahoma.

The Cardinals, coming off back-to-back 100-win seasons, have been chosen for eight national Saturday telecasts on FOX, the first of which is May 27 at San Diego. The first scheduled national telecast from the new stadium is June 3 against the Cubs.

BudShark

01-29-06, 12:01 PM

RaceTripper

01-29-06, 12:16 PM

In response to the previous post - I am extremely disappointed. 30 games in HD and a new stadium? Pathetic. Look at some of the other teams in the nation - when the Padres opened their new stadium 2 years ago - they announced 100% of home games would be in HD. Boston and New York are going near 100% HD (if not 100%) - for such a financially successful team with a new ballpark this is not the level of HD commitment I expected.

Chris
I'm as shocked and disppointed as you. The Cardinals should not have been given support for a new stadium if they were so short-sighted to overlook/ignore ensuring St. Louis fans enjoy it with HDTV, technology that has been around for some years now. $300M and the opening season is technology-challenged. The Cardnal organization should have made sure broadcasts were ready to go in HD all season. Shame on them for short changing us.

duvy56

01-29-06, 01:55 PM

I'm as shocked and disppointed as you. The Cardinals should not have been given support for a new stadium if they were so short-sighted to overlook/ignore ensuring St. Louis fans enjoy it with HDTV, technology that has been around for some years now. $300M and the opening season is technology-challenged. The Cardnal organization should have made sure broadcasts were ready to go in HD all season. Shame on them for short changing us.
I agree 100%. It's not what I expected from the Cardinals. Somebody get a email address so we can let them know. Baseball looks fantastic in HD

mclark98

01-29-06, 01:58 PM

I received the same mega-cable from Charter with my Moxi in November.

Thanks for responding guys - I did indeed receive said "mega-cable". Stuffing it in my small cabinet was a chore.

That said, I'm pretty impressed with Charter's offering so far (I won't mention lack of ABC). OnDemand is very neat - if only it came in HD.

bailorg

01-29-06, 04:51 PM

black_macleod

01-29-06, 04:58 PM

And don't forget, there will be no WB-11 soon.

DroptheRemote

01-29-06, 05:16 PM

bailorg is correct -- the Cardinals have little say in how many games are presented in HD. It's up to Fox Sports Midwest and KPLR.

While I'm sure that the Cardinals could, and probably do, encourage the carriers to do more HD, I don't think there's any real benefit for the team, either in dollar terms or from a fanbase standpoint. The potential HD audience is simply too small to matter, and that is compounded by the lack of sat (DirecTV and DISH) distribution.

When there's more money involved in HD rights -- or better yet, when current or new advertisers are ready to pony up for HD presentation, that'll be another matter.

wallyj

01-29-06, 07:28 PM

I'm sure the Cardinals' broadcasting focus this season will be on the newly acquired, non-KMOX radio coverage. UUG!

jbader

01-29-06, 07:32 PM

Hi,
Today Charter installed Moxie/Mate and HD on my Sony SXRD. While we did the install with component video, the tech called his dispatcher who told him that DVI was now enabled on the Moxi.

Before I go out and buy a DVI-HDMI cable for this I was wondering if anyone could validate that information?

Thanks,
Jack

bubba1972

01-29-06, 09:01 PM

Thanks for responding guys - I did indeed receive said "mega-cable". Stuffing it in my small cabinet was a chore.

That said, I'm pretty impressed with Charter's offering so far (I won't mention lack of ABC). OnDemand is very neat - if only it came in HD.

You will also be receiving a $15 or so charge for installation kit on your next bill for said cable. Nobody mentioned that to me when I signed up for the Moxi install and the installer said the wire was crap anyway. I ended up replacing it with my own and I provided the optical audio cable to get better sound. When the bill showed up I called and complained to get the charge removed.

Belle View

01-29-06, 09:45 PM

I'm sure the Cardinals' broadcasting focus this season will be on the newly acquired, non-KMOX radio coverage. UUG!

The Cardinal ownership is extremely active with KTRS. I work for a major sponsor and have experienced the full court press. In previous years they only had a passing interest in media sponsors. BTW they do not care about HD. They do not like XM radio either, they have no control over the national contract!

WinstonSmith

01-29-06, 09:54 PM

The Cardinals owners have shown a remarkable lack of care for everything other than increasing their revenue stream for the next 2-3 years.

WinstonSmith

01-29-06, 10:25 PM

Joseph Clark

01-29-06, 10:43 PM

Joseph Clark

01-29-06, 11:20 PM

Does anyone know of a good link to a forum or something similar where I could get information and help on upgrading my current motherboard?

I'm considering upgrading the MB in my HTPC because I'd like to have more PCI slots.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I know many of you are also PC tech junkies and might have some good links for me.

Winston,

Forgot to mention that HTPC threads here on AVS. They're great resources on this sort of thing.

Don't know if you've upgraded before, but if you haven't, make sure you do your homework on your existing system: kind of memory it has (DDR or DDR2, speed, single or dual channel); kind of CPU (Intel or AMD, socket or slot type, speed); connections the case has built in). You want to make sure your existing components and case will work with the new mobo. Also, in shopping a new mobo, you may be inclined to dismiss some mobos as too expensive, only to have to add FireWire or gigabit ethernet or sound cards into the PCI slots. The add-ons can often be much more expensive than the mobo with integrated FireWire, gig ethernet, etc.

While you're thinking about the mobo upgrade, you might also want to think about a case upgrade. Antec and CoolerMaster make great cases with lots of bays for extra drives. My systems all have 4 or 5 hard drives, and the last system I put together has a CoolerMaster case with ten bays (5 5 1/4 and 5 3 1/2) and eight of those are already used. One thing you don't want to do is choke yourself. My experience has been that I always want to add more.

The last thing is, make sure you know what kind of system disks your current system has. Some vendors have started shipping systems without any restore disks at all. If you change mobo, your restore disks may not work with the new motherboard - that could mean NO WINDOWS! Check with the manufacturer as to how they suggest you upgrade the mobo.

MoInSTL

01-29-06, 11:48 PM

I build my own systems and I'd be happy to give you suggestions since I just upgraded in December. I am current with what's out there and what is on the horizon. Your choices are limited by your current RAM, chipset and CPU type. I ended up getting a new mobo & CPU. Also had to get a new PCI-E video card as there is no AGP option. So it may not be as simple as swapping out a board with more PCI slots. If it's older, it may be tough to locate one that is compatible with the rest of your system.

There may be other options too based on what it is you are looking to add to additional PCI slots.

EDIT: I looked at the link you provided and it's liquid cooled which is trickier. I had a Sony Vaio laptop and as much as calling Sony sucks, call them and get their advice in regards to what it is you are wanting to do. They may have a better solution. At the very least, check out their forums. Your system is fairly new to go changing it out for more slots. What are you wanting to add?

Send me a PM with your contact info. if you'd like to discuss it.

Does anyone know of a good link to a forum or something similar where I could get information and help on upgrading my current motherboard?

I'm considering upgrading the MB in my HTPC because I'd like to have more PCI slots.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I know many of you are also PC tech junkies and might have some good links for me.

mclark98

01-30-06, 09:25 AM

Thanks for the tip. The provided cable seems quality enough for the discrete video, but I already had my optical audio cable hooked up and waiting to talk to the Moxi.

The tech didn't mention a charge to me either, and didn't take any money from me at all. Not sure if that's typical, because the customer rep said I would owe the tech first month's payment and any install charges. I'll make sure to pay attention to my bill.

WinstonSmith

01-30-06, 10:29 AM

Mo and Joe... thanks for the advice. I am looking into the stuff you mentioned as we speak.

As is everything with computers and HD, its never as simple as it initially sounds like it might be. But, that's half the fun, right? =]

BudShark

01-30-06, 11:00 AM

bailorg is correct -- the Cardinals have little say in how many games are presented in HD. It's up to Fox Sports Midwest and KPLR.

This I don't agree with... the Padres (and Yankees, Red Sox, etc) have all included in their contracts stipulation for HD. The Padres built the infrastructure in their stadium and then even put in the cameras and production equipment (if I recall correctly) for HD and then turned around and leased the cameras/infrastructure back to Cox or ESPN (whoever is covering the game). This has generated increased coverage since the equipment or at least the cabling is in place.

They made it a big deal and Cox made it a big deal. As a result, Cox increased high end subscribers. In addition, NESN and YES have generated tremendous buzz over their HD coverage.

Its a cop-out to say that the Cardinals have little to no say. They could have built the infrastructure into the stadium and required 'television coverage' consistent with new stadium construction and top-tier markets. This would have forced KPLR and Fox-MW. And we know this happens (look at the Rams lease agreement where their facilities have to be in the top-tier of the league - including the large screen). The Cardinals failed on this one, as did KPLR and FOX-MW.

Chris

Que_?

01-30-06, 11:25 AM

Nice a local info!

I post this here (had to take out link. It didn't let me post it. :/ ) didn't know about this local forum. I live in the 63376 area. Thanks for your help!

I have been with D* since 95. I just bought a new DLP and want to upgrade to HD. It does not have a HD tuner. Per the wife and really me too. I have to keep the DVR. So I need to get the HR10-250. My question is D* is going to lease in March.

1 HD DVR
$299 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+ $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
+ Monthly Programming

If this is right. Anyone knows?

OR 1 HD DVR $399 (After $200 mail-in rebate) from BB and I own the thing. May is when they will roll out the MPEG4 and I hope the upgrade then will be pain less. I will still need to get an antenna and see if I want the $10.95 D* HD channels or just stick with the OTA ones.

Thanks for your help!

[Edit] I guess I need to upgrade the dish too? I have the round one with 2 RG6 cables.

jdiehl

01-30-06, 11:34 AM

Welcome to the forum.

That's not a bad deal for the HD Tivo, but I've seen better (especially since you've been with them for 10yrs), check out this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=270045

You should be able to get it much cheaper. Here's a recent example (from the above thread):

Well, here's the deal I just took from them. I'm flagged as "one of their best customers", so she gave me all this up front and I didn't haggle for anything else.

$600 HD-DVR
$100 Phase III dish + INSTALLATION
- $200 INSTANT rebate on DVR
- $200 INSTANT credit on programming
- $120 programming discounts over 6 mos
------------------------------------
$180

Here's another:

Just checked my bill and it shows:

HD-DVR - Charge: $399.99
Install Charge: $99.99
Delivery Charge: $14.95
HD-DVR - Gen Reten CR: $-250.00

So that nets out to $264.93. Minus the $200 rebate and we're at $64.93, not counting tax (ick) or the 3 free months of the HD pack.

When I bought my HD Tivo last summer, I got a $100 mail in rebate, and they also gave me a $250 service credit (retention dept), as well as 6 months of free Showtime, 6 months of HBO @ $2/month, and 6 months free of the HD package.

When you call them, ask for retention right away. If the first CSR doesn't give you the complete package for almost free, hang up and try again. With your long history with them, they should be able to get it down to net $0 with a retention credit and free programming. Tell them that you're thinking of switching to cable due to Charter's HD DVR and HD programming (HD locals). :)

jimglobe

01-30-06, 12:54 PM

I went out and bought a HD tuner so I could get ABC in HD for the SuperBowl and whatever else I want to watch on it. I already had an old antenna on the roof. The picture quality on the OTA stations is excellent, as good as or better than the Charter HD channels. An added bonus I found was the extra KETC channels that were available that Charter does not carry. Now if I get really pissed at Charter, I can just cancel their cable services and go OTA.

DroptheRemote

01-30-06, 01:29 PM

Chris,

Do you have any links to stories highlighting the HD stipulations by Yankees, Red Sox and Padres? I'd be interested in reading/learning more about this.

Also, I think you're overlooking a key piece of the equation in the St. Louis market: Charter is not anything like a proactive company, and like it or not, they have a significant (ultimate?) say in any HD fatwa the Cardinals owners might like to declare.

Remember, Charter had a chance to have the lion's share of Cardinal HD baseball to themselves for all of 2005 and simply couldn't be bothered. It still completely boggles my mind that they didn't see the blindingly obvious value in that.

Finally, while I can understand if some HD owners are frustrated by the relatively small number of opportunities to see the Cardinals in HD, I find it completely ridiculous to moan and whinge about the Cards' ownership being obsessed with money.

It takes money in today's game (a lot of it) to put a winning team on the field year in and year out. The current ownership has done a great job of maximizing the potential of a middling market, and the bulk of that has been put back into the product, one way or another. Of course, these guys are interested in making money, but it's not like they came into the franchise without a few bucks to their names to begin with.

Take a long look at places like Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Cincinnatti or Kansas City if you want to see what happens when the focus isn't on maximizing the revenue opportunities in order to create success on the field -- that's what it takes to build asset value. Owning a sports franchise is ultimately about building up an underperforming asset and then eventually cashing out.

Although a lot of people can't seem to get to grips with the fact that the public faces of the franchise (La Russa and Jocketty) are outsiders, the fact is the team and organization has never been better, particularly when you consider how much harder it is to win than it was 25, 50 or 75 years ago.

HD broadcasts or not, we're living in a golden age of Cardinals baseball. The current owners aren't perfect, but it seems that a lot of fans won't appreciate how well they've done until after the party's over.

DroptheRemote

01-30-06, 01:37 PM

kugumby

01-30-06, 01:42 PM

Amen, Brother! If you want to see what bad ownership really is, then take a stroll a few blocks to the West to the Savvis Center.

BudShark

01-30-06, 02:00 PM

Doug - in answer to your first question (links), there are some out there. Here they go:
This first link speaks to the Padres top to bottom commitment to HD (remember, the stadium will be in its 3rd year by the time the Cards move in). They installed an HD scoreboard and HD TVs throughout the stadium because they started day 1 doing 100% home games in HD: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040404/news_mz1x4replay.html

Announcement that all RedSox games will be in HD on NESN (NESN is owned in part by the Red Sox)
http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/aboutus/news/01_05_06/

Yankees 64 home games in HD on YES
http://www.yesnetwork.com/network/news.asp?news_id=989

Before those get chewed apart - I am VERY well aware of the differences regarding partnership/ownership/etc between St. Louis, New York, Boston, and San Diego. The point I am making is that the Cardinals A) have a new stadium that by all indications is not as technically advanced as a stadium being constructed in 2005/2006 should be, B) the Cardinals have failed to seize upon opportunities to engage some of their higher-end fans, and C) in the same year dropped a flag ship radio station and failed to find an innovative method of delivering their product.

With the regions that have Cardinal faithful (Tennessee, Kentucky, Iowa, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, etc) the Cardinals could have/should have seized upon the opportunity to grow their market when they upgraded their stadium. Complain about Charter, KPLR, Fox-MW all you want - they are only a piece of the puzzle. The Cardinals deal with a lot more carriage and distribution availability than just locally. They could have outfitted the stadium with HD (ala the Pads) and forced the hands around them. Instead they took the easy/cheap way out and let everyone else dictate the direction. In 2006 their marketability is based at least partly on their technology advancement, and this is disappointing.

I predict we will hear more about this in April/May when the thousands who bought HD sets in the past 2-3 years find out that a $400 million new stadium gets them only a handful of HD games.

Chris

P.S. (Edit) on that last point. Yes - in 2006 I do believe that the consumer that pays for TV broadcasting rights (through ads and cable/satellite bills) is WELL aware that they pay for every game, even when they sit at home. So yes, it is relevant that the stadium is not properly outfitted.

P.P.S. I never said the owners are bad. I said they made a bad decision. I am a transplanted Padres fan. I've sat in a stadium with 4500 people and 62000 empty seats. I know bad ownership when I see it. I also know bad decisions. Whoever decided to not put HD throughout the stadium made a bad decision.

black_macleod

01-30-06, 02:04 PM

BudShark

01-30-06, 02:06 PM

Black - you beat my edit. See my first P.S. It is relevant. And believe it or not, a lot of the new stadiums are built with an eye towards television sight lines (because a lot of the marketability and viewership comes from tv, not the 40,000 that sit in the stadium).

wmschultz

01-30-06, 02:25 PM

GO BLUES!

You have been monitoring the fire sale, correct? Doug Weight -- gone.
Mike Sillinger -- gone...

To keep this on topic...WTF is the problem with D* not showing the FSN MW games
in HD when they are available?

black_macleod

01-30-06, 02:25 PM

I guess my point is just a philosophical one. I mean if all we want is to be able to sit at home and watch HD life in 5.1, we should just build huge techno-centers where teams can play and the broadcasts are beautiful. If this is all we wanted, we should have spent the money on retro-fitting the old Busch.

Anyhow I'll shut up :-) As you can tell I'm not a big sports fan, hehe. Nor am I a St. Louis native, although I've been here since '97. Saw the Arena implode. Went to the "Kiel" Center plenty of times. Watching Busch come down.

black_macleod

01-30-06, 02:42 PM

Scott Tucker

01-30-06, 02:43 PM

Kurt K

01-30-06, 02:46 PM

You have been monitoring the fire sale, correct? Doug Weight -- gone.
Mike Sillinger -- gone...

To keep this on topic...WTF is the problem with D* not showing the FSN MW games
in HD when they are available?

I was wondering about the lack of FSMW-HD on D* also. I would have almost rather not have seen any FSMW-HD games than to see one or two and being disappointed everytime a game airs and D* doesn't show the HD feed.

As for the trades, I heard about Sillinger last night, but didn't find out about Weight until about 30 minutes ago.

jimglobe

01-30-06, 02:54 PM

jimglobe,

I believe the other PBS channels carried by KETC are available in some of the Charter programming tiers.

Granted, getting those additional PBS stations via KETC is free, but ultimately there's no free lunch. These subchannels are stealing bandwidth from the main PBS HD channel, and as a result the picture quality is not anywhere close to what it could and should be. I'd much rather be rid of the subchannels and take the higher HD picture quality.

If those other PBS channels are really worth having, they'd be worth paying for.

I get the KETC HD channel on Charter, but I don't get the other ones. They might be in the family tier that I don't subscribe to. There are alot of channels on Charter that I dont think are worth having, but unfortunately they make me pay for them all whether I want them or not....

deuces

01-30-06, 02:58 PM

Chris,

Remember, Charter had a chance to have the lion's share of Cardinal HD baseball to themselves for all of 2005 and simply couldn't be bothered. It still completely boggles my mind that they didn't see the blindingly obvious value in that.

.

Can you explain what you mean? What happened when this went down?

And on a sidebar, this is one of the more interesting conversations since I have been hanging out here. But then I am a huge Cardinal fan.

black_macleod

01-30-06, 02:59 PM

I get the KETC HD channel on Charter, but I don't get the other ones. They might be in the family tier that I don't subscribe to. There are alot of channels on Charter that I dont think are worth having, but unfortunately they make me pay for them all whether I want them or not....

I have the family tier and I don't get them ... I don't think. I got the "family tier" because of IFC and Sundance, which aren't really Family oriented channels anyhow, its all pretty retarded.

A La Carte!

DroptheRemote

01-30-06, 03:15 PM

Chris,

Thanks for the links -- I'll check them out later this afternoon.

At the risk of picking nits (I'm not really trying to), I don't understand how the outfitting of a stadium impacts a team's ability to have all of the games played in it broadcast in HD.

If ONE game can be done from the new stadium in HD, that means there's no intractable obstacle to doing ALL the games in HD. I think the size of the HD market here, along with Charter's inertia, are much bigger practical issues.

Also, I do appreciate the regional markets (and I'm sure the Cardinals do even more), but as you move away from the main St. Louis market, you're dealing with ever-smaller numbers of viewers -- in fact, once you move outside the main market, all of the other combined markets probably add up to fewer viewers. So, ultimately what happens in the St. Louis market is going to drive priorities.

The KMOX-ODUS is another illustration of that (and a regrettable one, I think).

As someone else here noted, the bigger priority at the moment is tackling the move to a club-owned radio station. This was done because ownership believes it can have a material impact on revenues. As much as I LOVE HDTV, I don't think there's a cogent financial argument to be made for pushing for all Cards games in HD.

In time, yes, but at the moment it's probably just a diversion from bigger priorities.

Also, I wasn't addressing my ownership monologue toward you -- that was prompted by someone over the weekend, and I was just too lazy to go back and find out who said it.

My apologies...

winnie6052

01-30-06, 03:17 PM

Here is information on new scoreboard.

Daktronics awarded contract to provide integrated super system for new Busch Stadium in St. Louis

Brookings, S.D. – Feb. 17, 2005 – Daktronics, Inc. (Nasdaq - DAKT) announced today that it has been awarded a contract in excess of $5.8 million to design, manufacture and install a unique integrated scoring and display system for the new Busch Stadium, future home of the St. Louis Cardinals. Daktronics’ contract is with Hunt Construction Group, the design/build contractor for the new stadium.

Cardinal fans will enjoy a truly integrated scoring, video and information display system beginning in the spring of 2006, when the new Busch Stadium opens. Fans will see high resolution video images on multiple ProStar® LED video displays, and additional information on many other displays designed specifically for Busch Stadium that will be located throughout the ballpark.

“We look forward to a long and successful partnership with Daktronics,” said Joe Abernathy, Vice President of Stadium Operations for the St. Louis Cardinals. “Daktronics has proven itself again and again with its ability to design and build truly integrated systems that complement the game day experience in a significant way. The system will bring additional excitement and information to millions of Cardinals fans for years to come.”

“Daktronics is excited to partner with the St. Louis Cardinals and Hunt Construction on this fantastic new baseball facility,” said Kirk Simet, National Sales Manager for Daktronics. “All three of our organizations have great history and tradition in the sports industry, and this project will continue that tradition. We take great pride in each and every system we design and manufacture, and this one will be among the most capable and sophisticated in all of sport.”

The main scoreboard will be positioned behind right-center field and will measure approximately 40 feet high by 120 feet wide. It will incorporate a large ProStar® video display measuring approximately 32 feet high by 52 feet wide. Three additional Galaxy® amber LED displays on the main scoreboard will be used to display lineups, stats, and other information, as well as graphics and animation. Rotating and stationary displays panels will recognize the team’s corporate sponsors. Fans will also be able to watch highlights and see information on a video display on the back side of the main scoreboard, which faces a gathering area.

A unique out of town game display, to be located in right field, will keep fans informed of other action in both the National and American Leagues. Two full-color LED displays, each measuring approximately 8 feet high by 80 feet wide, will provide constantly updated scores and stats of players in other games in progress. The back side of the out of town game board also incorporates a large electronic display.
Daktronics is also providing three full-color ProAd® displays, two of which will be mounted on the fascia on the first and third base lines. This project will be the first outdoor project in which the Daktronics ProRail® attachment system will be used, in which the display will serve as the railing of the second deck, creating improved sight lines for fans and saving costs of construction. Each of the ProAd® displays will measure approximately 4 feet high by 150 feet long. A third display will be included in another gather area for fans. These integrated displays will show a variety of information, from game stats to sponsor messages, animation and video clips.

Two pitchers displays, each measuring approximately 4 feet high by 24 feet wide and incorporating amber LED technology, will be located in right and left field to display speed of pitch, type of pitch, and other information about the pitcher’s performance.

Daktronics is providing its proven control system that will operate the displays. Together the system incorporates more than 2.3 million individual LEDs, which are illuminated to make the words and images that appear on the displays.

Ground was broken in January 2004 on the new $275 million Busch Stadium. This new facility will consist of 1.3 million square feet of new construction, more than 46,000 seats, luxury suites, and club seats. The stadium will be built by Hunt Construction Group in association with KWAME Building Group. The new ballpark will be completed in phases, and the Cardinals’ home for three decades, the existing Busch Stadium, will be demolished to allow for the final phases of the ballpark to be completed.

The St. Louis Cardinals will become another Major League Baseball team to operate a Daktronics super system, bringing scoring, statistics, out-of-town game information, digital advertising and live and recorded video into an truly integrated system designed and manufactured for greater entertainment value, improved hardware and software compatibility and more efficient operation. A total of 24 major league ballparks and nearly 100 minor league facilities use Daktronics equipment.

Daktronics has strong leadership positions in, and is one of the world’s largest suppliers of, electronic scoreboards, computer-programmable displays, large screen video displays and control systems. The Company excels in the control of large display systems, including those that require integration of complex multiple displays showing real time information, graphics, animation and video. Daktronics designs, manufactures, markets and services display systems for customers around the world in sport, business and transportation applications, and celebrated its 35th year in business in 2003. For more information, visit the Company’s worldwide web site at http://www.daktronics.com, email the Company at sales@daktronics.com, call toll-free 1-800-DAKTRONICS (800-325-8766) in the U.S., or write to the Company at 331 32nd Avenue, P.O. Box 5128, Brookings, SD 57006-5128.

winnie6052

01-30-06, 03:24 PM

More info on scoreboard. Top of tge Line HD capable installed in sports arena all over the world.

ProStar® LED Video Display
As the focal point of an integrated entertainment and advertising display system, ProStar® video displays are the leading large screen LED solution at all levels of competition. Daktronics combines the crystal-clear ProStar® picture with a powerful, HD-ready control solution to make video, animation, graphics and live scores and statistics a reality for stadiums, arenas and ballparks worldwide.

CouchFrancois

01-30-06, 03:24 PM

Wow, I was excited to catch up on this weekend's posting expecting a whole lot of ranting about the NFL Network picking up 8 regular season games next year. It's convenient for all of us Chater subscribers that just got the channel dropped. Great timing...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2309549

DroptheRemote

01-30-06, 03:25 PM

deuces,

In April of 2005, in an early season broadcast, Fox Sports Midwest announced on-air that it would be doing 20-something HD Cardinal games in 2005. If I recall correctly, there was actually a schedule and the first one was supposed to take place toward the end of April.

As that date neared here, there hadn't been a further peep about it out of FSMW. Someone here tracked down the PR head at FSMW and I emailed him to find out what was going on. It turned out that while FSMW was all ready to do the 20+ HD games, they were held up by the fact that none of the cable (Charter) or satellite (DISH or DirecTV) distributors had agreed to carry the games.

The primary problem for DISH and DirecTV was a lack of bandwidth. With Charter, it may have been a capacity issue, but to me it seems more of a piece with a general disinterest in HD programming. A mid-2005 survey showed that St. Louis cable systems were thirtieth among the top 30 US markets in number of HD channels available via cable TV.

Now, we don't know the full story on this. It is POSSIBLE that FOX Sports Midwest was asking a king's ransom for Charter, DirecTV and DISH to carry those HD games, but I tend to doubt that.

But it is possible...

FWIW, much of this is included in the thread archive here, so if you scroll back to April and May 2005 timeframe, you may find that of interest, too.

GlendaleHDTV

01-30-06, 03:41 PM

wmschultz

01-30-06, 03:41 PM

And is it possible that it is not FSN but rather BUD Sports?

DroptheRemote

01-30-06, 04:04 PM

...the CSR said, "I haven't seen any of those around here in a while. We used to have a list, but the demand was too great, so we just dropped it."Boy, does that have the ring of authenticity to it...even though it is more than somewhat ambiguous.

Either the product was so successful that Charter couldn't bear it, so they dropped it, or the demand was so great that there was no point in taking the names of those interested in buying it when it became available.

I suspect the second reading is more likely, but still...there should be a Darwin Awards for companies. ;)

jimglobe

01-30-06, 04:05 PM

jimglobe

01-30-06, 04:08 PM

I have the family tier and I don't get them ... I don't think. I got the "family tier" because of IFC and Sundance, which aren't really Family oriented channels anyhow, its all pretty retarded.

A La Carte!

I didn't think Charter offered those channels. The kids channel is pretty nice if you have kids. I have not looked at the other one much yet, but it looked somewhat interesting.

DanGraney

01-30-06, 04:22 PM

Has anyone actually gotten a Moxi Mate in the last 30 days? I noted some references to people getting installs, but I've got a buddy here at work who called back in November and was put on one of Charter's infamous "lists". I told him to just call back, and when he did (today) the CSR said "I haven't seen any of those around here in a while. We used to have a list, but the demand was too great, so we just dropped it." The CSR then suggested that he just call back every so often to see if they had any.

Does anybody who recently got a Mate have any suggestions on how to get one other than calling and trying to get an intelligent CSR?
I'll tell you what, the list situation was insane, when trying to get the Moxi. First of all--and this is July/August--I called to get on the list and was told that it was in the hundreds. And it was going to be weeks, if not longer. Thing is, this was a list for the old Moxis... the DVR, not the Mate. When I caught wind of this, I called and asked about the MoxiMate. Sure enough, they were just sitting somewhere, waiting to be installed. My sister and I both called, and both had installation appts within a week. When they showed up to her house, however, they didn't have the Mate, but rather an old Moxi. But she kept it anyway, not wanting to pay the extra service... or wait anymore, as the installer said he didn't have one and didn't know when she would be able to get one. Classic Charter! It was suggested that I ask for actual Charter tech, not a 3rd party. And I did. The installer that showed up was not a Charter tech, but he was a good guy and he did have the Mate, so I shut up and helped him out. After some real usage, I can say that I really do enjoy it. But Charter is, without a doubt, the worst experience I have ever had or heard horror stories about. All I can say is call often. Then call some more.

One other idea... call the main number, the 636- number (regardless of what your local number is). Seems like the people there seemed to be a little more on the ball. Another idea is to pull over everytime you see a Charter truck out anywhere and ask the installer--if he happens to be around it--if he has any ideas. Seriously, I was at my wits end with trying to get my cable installed... and it took 3 different trips, on 3 different days. Consider it a war in which all's fair.

dweebe

01-30-06, 04:52 PM

Robert Simandl

01-30-06, 07:36 PM

but still...there should be a Darwin Awards for companies. ;)

If they ever have a Darwin Awards for Companies Hall of Fame to acknowledge such things by companies no longer around, I suspect a few of my previous employers will make the list. :D

kugumby

01-30-06, 08:06 PM

And not all of us voted for it. Yet it got built anyhow.

What the non-sports fan rarely seems to realize is that downtown businesses practically DEPEND on the sports franchises for their very life. (I'm speaking primarily of service oriented businesses. Bars, restaurants, etc.) What was downtown like in the wintertime before the Rams moved here. Dead. What was Union Station like last year (and this year because the owners have run the team into the ground.) Dead. Don't underestimate what sports franchises do for a downtown economy.

Let's also not forget that there was a whole lot of private money put into the new stadium. Yes, there is public money as well, but it's predominantly privately financed. Yes, there were also tax breaks given and that's because the people giving those tax breaks understand the downside of what it's like not to have the team downtown.

Sorry for the rant, but I've heard that twice in the last couple of days and had to get it off of my chest.

As an aside, and I'm keeping this post 100% off topic, but I think there should be a grassroots effort not put another dime in Bill Laurie's pockets. If you do have tickets, don't spend any money once you're inside the building. The poor attendance obviously isn't enough to get him to sell the team. Maybe if the concession money went away too, he'd have to start thinking about it.

Fiasco

01-30-06, 08:25 PM

OK, I give up!!! I have a antenna's direct DB4 and a channel master 4228 and a UHF antennas direct pre-amp. I live near Lone Elk state park.

Try as I might the last several months I just can't get a reliable signal on anything but channel 5 and channel 11.

Is there a professional antenna guy in the St. Louis are I can call (recommendations) and is there any guarentee of reception? I hate to pay someone and end up with the same poor signal I have now.

Fiasco

01-30-06, 10:37 PM

I live in Lone Elk State Park outisde of Fenton. I have been trying to get my locals in OTA and I've had enough!

I have a Antennas Direct DB4 and Antennas Direct UHF only preamp. I also have a ChannelMaster 4228 antenna. I have been trying off and on over the months to pull down decent signals but the only two channels I can reliably tune is channel 5 and channel 11.

Can anyone recommend a local professional installer? Also, do they guarentee to get a signal or am I going to pay someone to come out and end up with the same reception I have?

Thanks
frustrated!

Fiasco

01-30-06, 10:40 PM

Sorry bout the double post. I just switched to a Cingular EDGE cell internet and it works like crap.

scheerce

01-30-06, 10:57 PM

skippy_rq

01-30-06, 11:25 PM

I am also having a bear of a time getting anything OTA. I live in St. Charles, have a Mits 527, and just purchased a DB4 from Antenna's Direct. I tried an internal antenna, nothing. I have the DB4 outside, nothing, just static. I am not using a receiver and I have been told many times that the mits 527 has a built in HD tuner. I have HD on charter with Moxi, but am going crazy that I can not get ABC, not only for the Big Game. I have pointed the DB4 to the SE, and have tried several different angles. I have also had my wife inside as I sat outside moving the antenna, nothing but static. I briefly received a church channel on 22, but very fuzzy. I have a 2 story directly south of me ( I am a single story) and it is also way above my house. They have a walkout. My antenna is probably at their first floor level. Is this causing my problem? I would think I could get something!!!!!!

Better yet give this guy a call. He setup me, my dad, and a few friends of mine. Last I checked he charged $99 for an antenna installed. Very cool and friendly.

Jon Kniss
A/V Concepts
C-314-704-0251
H-636-661-5478

Just tell him I sent ya and he should get you setup and make you a happy camper.

Robert Simandl

01-30-06, 11:41 PM

I have a 2 story directly south of me ( I am a single story) and it is also way above my house. They have a walkout. My antenna is probably at their first floor level. Is this causing my problem? I would think I could get something!!!!!!

That very well could be a major part of your problem. I live in a valley, and the antenna in my attic didn't pick up diddley squat. When I put another antenna up on the roof (well actually 10 feet ABOVE my roof) in 1998, I got decent signals on EVERY analog channel. That same antenna pulls in every local HD channel fine and dandy, too.

Any way you can get your antenna higher? I realize you might not be able to get it to the level of your neighbor's roof, but every foot might help.

Joseph Clark

01-31-06, 01:43 AM

For those still looking to buy an OTA tuner for the Super Bowl, I just saw a couple of LG combo units (OTA tuner and upconverting DVD player) sitting on the south country Best Buy closeout/return racks. They hadn't posted a price yet, so they probably were just put there Monday. I bought one a few weeks ago (also on clearance) and it's been a pretty good performer. If you're in the market for an upconverting DVD player, it kills two birds with one stone. I suspect the price will be decent.

hanjke

01-31-06, 09:58 AM

Isnt' the POINT of building a new stadium is so fans actually GO to the games?

Home entertainment is no replacement for the experience of attending entertainment events.

They didn't build a $400 million TV station, they built a stadium.

And not all of us voted for it. Yet it got built anyhow.

GO BLUES!

Comcast Sports Net aired 30 Cubs games in HD last season.
Wrigley Field was built in 1914.
I think we need to blame-

1. The market- for not demanding more local content availability in HD
2. The Cardinal affiliate stations- for not insisting on having more of a say
3. The Cardinals- for not adding this to their list of demands

imho, that is.

-Hanjke

DroptheRemote

01-31-06, 09:59 AM

Combining a DVD player with an OTA HD tuner seems like a very odd idea (and not odd in a good way).

But then, if it brings Super Bowl joy to some needy HDTV-holic, then I guess it's a good thing.

scheerce

01-31-06, 10:04 AM

Tonight I will try to find a mast to put it up on. Maybe radioshack or HomeDepot sells them. If that doesn't work, I will go to a professional.

I picked this DB4 antenna up at the antenna direct office. Little place by six flags. They said they are selling more in the past couple weeks than they ever had. They even said I did not need the DB4, as the DB2 would work. Personally, I could not buy something with the name DB2, so I got the DB4 ( some of you my know where DB2 comes from in the computer world. I hate big blue as much as I hate microsoft )

My wife can not believe I am doing all this for one channel, ABC. I told her it is more of a challenge now than a requirment. Plus, my father is giving me grief for spending all this money for cable and the TV and I can't see the big game in HD.

DroptheRemote

01-31-06, 10:16 AM

I just wanted to add a note here about DirecTV and why I find them overall to be a good company to deal with.

My HD-TiVo has been acting funky the past week -- momentary freezes when changing channels, and more recently severe pixellation during which all remote control commands are ignored. This goes on for a while, and then eventually the receiver reboots. When it comes back, it’s OK for about 20 minutes and then starts the cycle all over again.

As you can imagine, I’m not at all happy about this and I was hoping it might just be a temporary thing (even though deep down I knew better). But Monday night it went from bad to worse, so I knew there was no turning back.

So, I call DirecTV last night and explain the problem. They recognize the issue (it was a know problem with early HD-TiVos and seems to get a lot of them eventually – bad hard drive). But DirecTV cuts right to the chase – they will send me a replacement unit, with expected arrival in 2 to 3 business days. I put my current access card in the new receiver and get the new box authorized. Put the old receiver in the new box and return it to DirecTV via pre-paid FedEx.

Cost to me = $0.00.

What's remarkable about this is the focus on keeping me a happy customer. I don't have any service contract and there wasn't any sort of drama or mystery in figuring out the problem. The DirecTV tech immediately recognized the symptoms as a known problem and wasted no time in teeing up a solution.

Of course, I don't like every single aspect of DirecTV -- there are a number of things they do that really bug me, chief among the extreme compression applied to SD channels and signs that the same is happening on the HD side. I also don't like the additional monthly tuner charge, but I'll find that more palatable if DirecTV is taking on more of the future hardware cost.

Contrast that customer service experience to my contact this morning with Charter. My Pipeline was down (again) both Sunday night until early Monday morning, and then again last night from around 9 pm until 8:30 this morning.

When I finally climb through the overgrown phone tree that Charter uses to discourage customer contact (during which I hear TWICE that there is a Pipeline outage in my area) and I speak with a tech, I'm told there is no outage in my ZIP code area. When I tell him there is one, he insists he's checked and there isn't. Doesn't matter really, because I really just want to be transferred to accounts so I can claim my service credits.

But, of course, the accounts system computer is down and after spending 15 minutes spinning my wheels, I have no choice but to call back.

It's hard to understand how DirecTV has figured out the basic stuff and Charter just keeps digging the hole deeper and deeper and deeper...

kdg454

01-31-06, 10:17 AM

DroptheRemote

01-31-06, 10:26 AM

DISH, DirecTV May Join Forces to Offer Wireless

The following is from today's TVPredictions.com newsletter, based on a story that appears on the Denver Post web site:
__________________________________________________________

And speaking of creative solutions, TheStreet.com reports that EchoStar may team with DIRECTV to build a wireless network that could offer a range of features, including Voice Over the Internet Protocol telephone service. The joint effort would help the companies reduce costs as they strive to compete with cable on wireless and other non-TV services.

Rupert Murdoch, chairman of News Corp., which has a controlling interest in DIRECTV, has said loudly that he wants the satcaster to offer wireless as soon as possible. Murdoch believes that DIRECTV must be able to offer more than TV programming to compete with cable.

While the EchoStar partnership would be unusual, it could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. The two satcasters could combine to reduce costs in other areas, such as the launch of satellites to expand HDTV programming and on-demand services. So long as the two companies offered different packages and services, the FCC would likely approve the arrangement despite some concerns about reducing competition in the marketplace.
And speaking of creative solutions, TheStreet.com reports that EchoStar may team with DIRECTV to build a wireless network that could offer a range of features, including Voice Over the Internet Protocol telephone service. The joint effort would help the companies reduce costs as they strive to compete with cable on wireless and other non-TV services.

Rupert Murdoch, chairman of News Corp., which has a controlling interest in DIRECTV, has said loudly that he wants the satcaster to offer wireless as soon as possible. Murdoch believes that DIRECTV must be able to offer more than TV programming to compete with cable.

While the EchoStar partnership would be unusual, it could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. The two satcasters could combine to reduce costs in other areas, such as the launch of satellites to expand HDTV programming and on-demand services. So long as the two companies offered different packages and services, the FCC would likely approve the arrangement despite some concerns about reducing competition in the marketplace.
__________________________________________________________

Here's a link to the Denver Post story: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_3459720

DanGraney

01-31-06, 10:35 AM

deuces

01-31-06, 10:42 AM

Joseph Clark

01-31-06, 11:02 AM

Combining a DVD player with an OTA HD tuner seems like a very odd idea (and not odd in a good way).

But then, if it brings Super Bowl joy to some needy HDTV-holic, then I guess it's a good thing.

Doug,

Curious as to why you'd say this. Seems a good idea if implemented properly - saves space and connections, one less remote to worry about. Not for everyone or every situation, but it seems a good idea in general. (I know the signals from DVD and OTA are radically different, but, again, if he DVD upconversion is good, shouldn't the signal going to the display be potentially the same as the OTA?)

wallyj

01-31-06, 11:31 AM

I have always been happy with my experience with DishNetwork.

I would concur. Very knowledgeable and courteous customer service. Even when it’s a lunk head question that only requires a reboot of the receiver. Kicks major stuff over Charter.

DroptheRemote

01-31-06, 11:35 AM

The reason I don't like these sort of combo devices is that they are a two-for-one on the risk side. If the OTA tuner develops a problem and needs servicing, it means the DVD player can't be used during that time (or vice versa).

Of course, the glass-is-half-full school says that if the DVD fails, at least the OTA tuner works -- which is true, so long as it isn't a power supply issue, or some other component they share in common.

I also believe -- maybe incorrectly -- that combo devices are, by design, long on "convenience" and short on performance.

The worst combo ideas I've seen are DVD players built into TVs (an idea that only RCA could embrace).

But this OTA tuner/DVD player is in the running for second place.

deuces

01-31-06, 12:11 PM

I just found out a lady we work with (at a large company we sell for) is Charlie Ergen's sister. Now I am just trying to figure out how to use this info to my advantage. Any ideas?

No ideas? I don't want to be greedy or anything, but you know if I could get a little something extra I'd love to have it. Just thought this population would have all kinds of ideas.

wmschultz

01-31-06, 12:30 PM

I am also having a bear of a time getting anything OTA. I live in St. Charles, have a Mits 527, and just purchased a DB4 from Antenna's Direct. I tried an internal antenna, nothing. I have the DB4 outside, nothing, just static. I am not using a receiver and I have been told many times that the mits 527 has a built in HD tuner. I have HD on charter with Moxi, but am going crazy that I can not get ABC, not only for the Big Game. I have pointed the DB4 to the SE, and have tried several different angles. I have also had my wife inside as I sat outside moving the antenna, nothing but static. I briefly received a church channel on 22, but very fuzzy. I have a 2 story directly south of me ( I am a single story) and it is also way above my house. They have a walkout. My antenna is probably at their first floor level. Is this causing my problem? I would think I could get something!!!!!!

I might be confused but in reading your post here, it sounds like you have the
coax plugged into the wrong RF plug.

There should be no fuzziness. It is either there are not. It could freeze, but not
static. It would make sense that you would not get any other channels due to
the antenna you bought being a UHF antenna. So either you have it in the wrong
RF or you have the wrong input selected on the TV.

I'd be willing to help you if you aren't too far away from 94/Kisker.

kdg454

01-31-06, 01:15 PM

No ideas? I don't want to be greedy or anything, but you know if I could get a little something extra I'd love to have it. Just thought this population would have all kinds of ideas.
Tell her you want a 622 tomorrow, and a 1000 pointed at 129. And still get the $200 rebate for your 921 on April 1st.
Heck, it can't hurt to ask.

deuces

01-31-06, 01:27 PM

Tell her you want a 622 tomorrow, and a 1000 pointed at 129. And still get the $200 rebate for your 921 on April 1st.
Heck, it can't hurt to ask.

I thought about that, but what if the first 622's are buggy? I thought waiting might be better, what do you think?

kdg454

01-31-06, 01:57 PM

I thought about that, but what if the first 622's are buggy? I thought waiting might be better, what do you think?
I'm getting one next week. I added a 211 yesterday, it's perfect...so far.
The 622 is essentially the identical chassis as the 942 with a MPEG4 decoder. I've had no issues with my 921, and I understand the 942 is, for the most part, bug-free.
Also, everything on 61.5 (except CBSHD NY) is now mirrored on to 129, so you won't lose any current programming, but you'll gain any of the new HD MPEG4's you sub to. Most likely, the STL local DT's will end up on 129.

That may be a good way to begin the conversation with her. Ask her how the 622's are performing. You'll also find out if she's up to speed :)

deuces

01-31-06, 02:26 PM

That may be a good way to begin the conversation with her. Ask her how the 622's are performing. You'll also find out if she's up to speed :)

I have a 942 and love it. Just to add a little to the story she loaned Charlie her kid's college money to help him get started in the business.

Is the 622 compatible with the PocketDish? We love our PocketDish.

kdg454

01-31-06, 02:46 PM

Is the 622 compatible with the PocketDish? We love our PocketDish.
Absolutely, it's the identical chassis as your 942. For the most part, it got a new face and a MPEG4 decoder.
Compatible with all 3 PocketDish, 2" 4" & 7"
I expect to have a 622 up and running by this time next week, I'll let you know then how it does.
HERE (http://rweb.echostar.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/receiver/622.shtml) is the link to Dish Tech where you can read about the 622.

scheerce

01-31-06, 03:22 PM

Mr Schultz,
I don't allow people to my house that drive Chrysler products, who have worked for a Stock company, health company, miltary organization, or who know what the term " grep or awk " means.

If you fall in any of these catigories, let me know.

wmschultz

01-31-06, 03:25 PM

deuces

01-31-06, 03:28 PM

That's funny, cuz I thought it was you!!!

Ok, I don't know you guys, but that is funny. I was sitting here going who does this guy think he is? I even read to my sister and wife going are you kidding. Great. Just great, it was hilarious even for an outsider.

kdg454

01-31-06, 03:36 PM

Ok, I don't know you guys, but that is funny. I was sitting here going who does this guy think he is? I even read to my sister and wife going are you kidding. Great. Just great, it was hilarious even for an outsider.
I think WM may have gone to SC's house to assist him with OTA reception.
So what if we're all waiting to hear of SC got OTA or not, at least we know what WM drives :)

wmschultz

01-31-06, 03:37 PM

All worked out.

I will be stopping by the man's house to help out.

scheerce

01-31-06, 03:38 PM

funny how small the world is. You meet someone you worked with several years online in a public forum.

scheerce

01-31-06, 03:41 PM

You may know what he drives, but do you know what grep or awk means?
To make if fair, I drive a GMC truck.....

wmschultz

01-31-06, 03:42 PM

GoManGo Dodge Charger Daytona Version

deuces

01-31-06, 03:44 PM

You may know what he drives, but do you know what grep or awk means?
To make if fair, I drive a GMC truck.....

I have no idea what they mean. But I seriously thought you didn't want anyone like that coming to your house. And I was sitting here going "somebody tell this guy to stick it, he doesn't deserve help" Too funny.

scheerce

01-31-06, 03:46 PM

Even funnier is that I know both of us are at work, playing in this forum.

deuces

01-31-06, 03:48 PM

Even funnier is that I know both of us are at work, playing in this forum.

Both of you? Aren't we all at work, wasting the day away. I'm a very adept procrastinator.

kdg454

01-31-06, 03:49 PM

Even funnier is that I know both of us are at work, playing in this forum.
Funnier yet, is when everyone else gets home tonight, and goes to catch up on the days posts!

scheerce

01-31-06, 03:54 PM

yes, they will realize that while they were hard at work working, we were at work working hard on HDTV issues.

MoInSTL

01-31-06, 04:04 PM

You may know what he drives, but do you know what grep or awk means?
To make if fair, I drive a GMC truck.....

I do! I do!

(former sys admin)

Edit: wmschultz wanna help me out too? ;)

deuces

01-31-06, 04:10 PM

I do! I do!

(former sys admin)

Edit: wmschultz wanna help me out too? ;)

Well somebody tell me what they mean. Does it have to do with computers? Is it sexual? I'm assuming you should never, ever grep at the dinner table. Or is it not a verb? Please tell me, the suspense is killing me.

RaceTripper

01-31-06, 04:13 PM

Or is it not a verb?Yes, it can be. One can grok grep or grep grok.

MoInSTL

01-31-06, 04:16 PM

Well somebody tell me what they mean. Does it have to do with computers? Is it sexual? I'm assuming you should never, ever grep at the dinner table. Or is it not a verb? Please tell me, the suspense is killing me.

Unix commands/tools. Taken from sites googling:

The grep command searches one or more input files for lines containing a match to a specified pattern. By default, grep prints the matching lines. My comment: much more flexible than a mere search tool especially when combined in a longer command string.

The Awk text-processing language is useful for such tasks as:
Tallying information from text files and creating reports from the results.
Adding additional functions to text editors like "vi".
Translating files from one format to another.
Creating small databases.
Performing mathematical operations on files of numeric data.
Awk has two faces: it is a utility for performing simple text-processing tasks, and it is a programming language for performing complex text-processing tasks.

wmschultz

01-31-06, 04:16 PM

I do! I do!

(former sys admin)

Edit: wmschultz wanna help me out too? ;)

What type of help are you needing? I'm open to providing assistance.

wmschultz

01-31-06, 04:17 PM

And when you awk something you make it fork itself.

RaceTripper

01-31-06, 04:24 PM

Trivia

grep is an acronym for: General Regular Expression Parser
(and the Perl language has a more full fledged regular expression (regex) syntax and parser)
awk stands for its inventors: Aho, Kernighan and Weinberger

deuces

01-31-06, 04:27 PM

OK, sorry this is off the grep and awk topic, but back on the HD topic. The Cardinal baseball discussion we had: I think it doesn't matter about a lot of the debate that went on. Our goal is to see more baseball in HD. Does anyone have any good ideas on how to help get that done?

MoInSTL

01-31-06, 04:28 PM

What type of help are you needing? I'm open to providing assistance.

I was joking, but since you are asking... I am dealing with dynamc multipath due to practically living on top of Lambert. I bought a Silver Sensor which works reasonably well but still not good enough to stop freezing and audio drop-outs. Called D* and had them install a separate antenna line (no diplexors, just straight line) and a 2-bay bowtie. Late at night I can watch Leno or Letterman fine and my signal strengths are quite good. It's all the planes causing the problems during primetime. So I need to figure out what will fit on the mast on top of the sat dish and change it out. I want to avoid another hole in my roof. I could probably pick up a 4-bay as they use the same mounting brackets but from what I have read, it may not be enough to thwart multipath. An 8-bay like a CM is too darn big and would require a lot of stuff I am not able to do. In my generation women didn't learn this stuff so I'm not very handy.

van105

01-31-06, 04:47 PM

Hi, I'm newmember but long time reader of the forum and thanks to all of your information I have enjoyed OTA hd for sometime. I recently changed my antenna to aDB@ attenna direct nad used John McMillian of Signal Seekers (314-7040921) for the install . I also installed the H10-250 tivo unit and have great recption except for ch 46. I do have a Samsung SIR-160 unit available and anyone that is interested can pm me for more information.

wmschultz

01-31-06, 04:56 PM

I was joking, but since you are asking... I am dealing with dynamc multipath due to practically living on top of Lambert. I bought a Silver Sensor which works reasonably well but still not good enough to stop freezing and audio drop-outs. Called D* and had them install a separate antenna line (no diplexors, just straight line) and a 2-bay bowtie. Late at night I can watch Leno or Letterman fine and my signal strengths are quite good. It's all the planes causing the problems during primetime. So I need to figure out what will fit on the mast on top of the sat dish and change it out. I want to avoid another hole in my roof. I could probably pick up a 4-bay as they use the same mounting brackets but from what I have read, it may not be enough to thwart multipath. An 8-bay like a CM is too darn big and would require a lot of stuff I am not able to do. In my generation women didn't learn this stuff so I'm not very handy.

I would call antennas direct and talk to them. It's funny, that CM 8 bay is like the
one I bought from Antennas direct but it doesn't look as quality. But I would think
they should be able to give you a better idea of what you need. I'm guessing that
something like this http://www.antennasdirect.com/42XG_television_antenna.html
would be better because of how close you are.

Fiasco

01-31-06, 06:49 PM

Better yet give this guy a call. He setup me, my dad, and a few friends of mine. Last I checked he charged $99 for an antenna installed. Very cool and friendly.

Jon Kniss
A/V Concepts
C-314-704-0251
H-636-661-5478

Just tell him I sent ya and he should get you setup and make you a happy camper.

I gave Jon a call, hopefully he can sort out my bad reception problem.

davesalaman

01-31-06, 06:52 PM

I'm assuming you should never, ever grep at the dinner table.

For the dinner table I would recommend
grep Tuesday menu | awk '{print "Enjoy your "$2", "$3", and"$4}'

cgh3rd

01-31-06, 07:39 PM

My experience has been mostly positive with Directv also. Every once in a while I get a really clueless CSR. I just call back and invariably get a more knowledgable one. My worst experience dealt with the NFLST and Super Fan last year. The lady kept telling me that no one was getting free credit for Super Fan when dozens in the AVS forum were because they couldn't deliver everything they were promising due to the limitations of the STBs. She stated she, "never had given a credit to anyone for Superfan" and stated that others getting credit, "just wasn't happening". Then she gave me a full credit! Later, D* gave me the same credit for 2006 Super Fan because of the level of complaints they received about it and the way it was set up. I was polite and honest as to why I was calling but the way she treated me made me think twice about D* for first time since I had the service.

My love of the NFL gives me more than average patience with D* but I have to admit I don't recommend them to my friends as strongly and I used to. That being said they are obviously the best option if you are a NFL fan. I believe once the MPEG 4 rollout is done they will easily be the best choice in general except for their DVR.

Chuck

kdg454

01-31-06, 09:24 PM

I wonder why FOX is the only network not carrying the State of the Union Address in HD :confused:

Robert Simandl

01-31-06, 10:30 PM

And CBS, at least in its pre-speech babbling by Bob Schieffer and Gloria Borger, was broadcasting 2.0 channel sound with the 5.1 flag on -- shades of Jay Leno!

KSDK/NBC seemed to get picture and sound completely right (how's THAT for unusual)... I didn't check ABC.

Kurt K

01-31-06, 11:20 PM

During the 10 PM news on KSDK, they are "explaining" different info about their upcoming HD news broadcast. Tonight, the question answered was "What is needed to get the HD signal?"

Answers?:

If you don't have cable or satellite, you just need to purchase a digital antenna. Otherwise you need to sign up for an HD package and get the digital tuner from your provider.

I'm sure I didn't get the exact quote, but that's close. I just found "their answers" to be funny.

kdg454

01-31-06, 11:32 PM

WinstonSmith

01-31-06, 11:39 PM

I believe once the MPEG 4 rollout is done they will easily be the best choice in general except for their DVR.

Chuck

Who will be the best choice for the DVR?

WinstonSmith

01-31-06, 11:40 PM

Anyone think KSDK is getting a kickback?

kdg454

02-01-06, 01:12 AM

Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network are now back on Dish.
Terms of the agreement have yet to be released.

Dish also added 7 additional HD channels tonight, which are only available to MPEG4 receivers.
ESPN2 HD
Universal HD
World Sport HD
World Cinema HD
Treasure HD
Game Play HD
Family HD

PWSHER

02-01-06, 07:13 AM

DroptheRemote

02-01-06, 08:28 AM

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

A couple of years ago, we used to start off each month with a reposting of the local resource messages that are now buried on the first page of this discussion thread. I think there's some useful bits and pieces of information there -- and not JUST because I wrote most of it.

Unfortunately a lot of that information is overlooked because it's so far off the beaten path, especially now that the St. Louis discussion archive stretches back more than 2 years and 300+ pages.

To try to address this, I'm going to post an advisory/reminder note similar to this every couple of weeks. Ideally this will make this information more visible and accessible to more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

So, here's to filling in some of those information gaps...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995679&&#post2995679)

Using An Antenna to Receive Local HD Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995718&&#post2995718)

Common Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7041311&&#post7041311)

And finally, I want to remind everyone -- newcomers and old hands alike -- that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

hanjke

02-01-06, 09:43 AM

I wonder why FOX is the only network not carrying the State of the Union Address in HD :confused:

I have thought about this, and here's my possible scenario-

They are using Fox News to pump this feed to the affiliates. Fox News is still SD, so they probably send it out that way.

my 2 cents...

Tom Grooms

02-01-06, 09:46 AM

To my ever decreasing Charter brethren out there:

Are you receiving channel 784 OK? I keep getting the dreaded "If you do not subscribe.......check your cables" message. This has been going on for two weeks. All other HD channels are fine just KMOV????? This used to be my best HD channel (except HDNet of course).

Anyone? Don't make me call the Charter CSR!!!!! Wow, I got the same thing on my Motorola box upstairs except its 784 and 773. :eek: Good thing its her TV and my MOXI is still working downstairs in the media room.

I called a CSR and they did some balancing thing over the phone. I rebooted and it worked for 5 minutes. I called back and scheduled a service call but before they came over they called the wife and asked her to check because they fixed some stuff and it worked (for 10 minutes) so they canceled the appointment. I guess Im going to reschedule.

Rates went up to from $115 to over $185. (Tripleplay and dish buy back customer)

skippy_rq

02-01-06, 09:59 AM

I gave Jon a call, hopefully he can sort out my bad reception problem.

Let us know how it all works out for you.

Mr_Bester

02-01-06, 10:00 AM

...

Rates went up to from $115 to over $185. (Tripleplay and dish buy back customer)

AAAAAAHHHHHHHH! $70 price increase is a bit steep. I hope you can call and get them to come to their senses.
dug

DroptheRemote

02-01-06, 10:30 AM

If someone with DISH can send me the numbers of the new channels added to the service today, I'll update the Available Programming chart.

Has Charter added anything recently not reflected in the chart?

Thanks in advance.

Note: Current version of the Available Programming chart can be found here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6704878&&#post6704878)

kdg454

02-01-06, 10:43 AM

If someone with DISH can send me the numbers of the new channels added to the service today, I'll update the Available Programming chart.

ESPN2 HD - 9425
Universal HD - 9427
World Sport HD - 9473
World Cinema HD - 9475
Treasure HD - 9477
Game Play HD - 9485
Family HD - 9486

Note: Must have MPEG4 receiver.

As a side note, I am now receiving the distant local DT's from NY. This morning, GMA was on in HD. I only watched it briefly, but the PQ looked good. It's flagged as MPEG4, but it is widely rumored it is still in MPEG2 compression.

wallyj

02-01-06, 11:48 AM

So the new receivers are out there?

I assume the Dish 1000 too.

wilkemp

02-01-06, 12:01 PM

Any Charter customers at home now that can check on the INHD PPV and see if the NBA league Pass HD is on?

Squirreljam

02-01-06, 12:01 PM

PWSHER - I'm getting KMOV-DT just fine over charter with cablecard, at least as of last night. Based on Tom Grooms' post, sounds like a box issue. I'm glad I have cablecard for that reason, though my wife commented just last night about how she misses the interactive program guide.

kdg454

02-01-06, 12:58 PM

So the new receivers are out there?

I assume the Dish 1000 too.
I already have a 211 up and running. From what I've read, and got from my local Dish retailer, it will be 2-3 weeks until the 622's and 1000's arrive in this area for installation.

deuces

02-01-06, 01:12 PM

I already have a 211 up and running. From what I've read, and got from my local Dish retailer, it will be 2-3 weeks until the 622's and 1000's arrive in this area for installation.

Can I ask who you use as your local retailer in Farmington?

DroptheRemote

02-01-06, 01:17 PM

Guide to HD Programming in St. Louis Updated

I've updated the St. Louis Guide to HD Programming Availability. This guide is designed to show which active HD channels are available through each of the principal providers in the area -- Charter, DISH and DirecTV.

This guide should be helpful for HDTV newcomers and potential HDTV buyers, as well as consumers who are thinking about switching from one provider to another.

With this update, I've now included the DISH channels the company added today. In addition, I've indicated those new channels require an MPEG-4 receiver.

I've also re-ordered the VOOM section sequentially (channel surfing order) to make this a bit more user-friendly. Other changes include noting that the HD channels available from KDNL (ABC), ESPN and ESPN2 are now capable of providing Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound.

Even when you consider that the VOOM programming includes a lot of repetition, it's clear that DISH Network now has a COMMANDING lead over DirecTV and Charter, both in terms of HD quantity and HD quality. I'm still hopeful that DirecTV is going to start living up to the "hype" -- hopefully before Charter actually passes them by.

FWIW, I've also added MTV's MHD channel under the section that shows operating HD channels not available through Charter, DirecTV or DISH here in St. Louis.

On the other hand, I've purposely omitted the recently added DirecTV pop music HD channel, on the grounds that it takes a lot more than 1 hour of unique programming per week to make the Video Savant take notice.

wmschultz

02-01-06, 01:27 PM

rthomp03

02-01-06, 01:37 PM

I have always been happy with my experience with DishNetwork. Obviously there are always things we wish would be done differently. With that being said, I just found out a lady we work with (at a large company we sell for) is Charlie Ergen's sister. Now I am just trying to figure out how to use this info to my advantage. Any ideas?
Have her tell Charlie to pull his head out of his rear and mirror the ESPN-2HD and UHD stuff in Mpeg-2 on 110 so that 95% of his current HD subs can actually view it before next month. Numerous subs at other forums are reporting 3-4 week install waits for their Mpeg-4 STBs, particularly the 622 as well as reported shortages of the D1000 antenna to pull in 129.

kdg454

02-01-06, 01:44 PM

Can I ask who you use as your local retailer in Farmington?
Deuces,
The only things I use him for is information. My installs are done by a dish sub-contractor who only does installation and service. No retail sales.

Like any other company of this size, unless you happen to know someone like Charlie's sister, it is best to get information from different reliable sources, then comparatively, you can figure out what's what. It's not like we can just call a CSR and ask, what fun would that be :rolleyes:

For information I use Cable Direct TV in Farmington-Dish retailer/installer. Charlie (owner) @ 573-701-8604
and DishDepot-online Dish retailer. Mark (owner) @ 877-983-3474 and www.dishdepot.com
and, of course, dbstalk.com and satelliteguysus.com.

Doug,
FWIW, all of the new Dish MPEG4's can be received on the standard Dish300 pointed at 61.5. When purchasing/leasing a MPEG4 receiver, Dish does not charge for the Dish1000 or installation.

deuces

02-01-06, 01:51 PM

Deuces,

For information I use Cable Direct TV in Farmington-Dish retailer/installer. Charlie (owner) @ 573-701-8604
and DishDepot-online Dish retailer. Mark (owner) @ 877-983-3474 and www.dishdepot.com

Was just curious, I had, had a guy out to the house to help with some things and his father is a Dish retailer in Farmington I think. Wondered if it was same. Doesn't sound like it.

kdg454

02-01-06, 01:52 PM

Have her tell Charlie to pull his head out of his rear and mirror the ESPN-2HD and UHD stuff in Mpeg-2 on 110 so that 95% of his current HD subs can actually view it before next month. Numerous subs at other forums are reporting 3-4 week install waits for their Mpeg-4 STBs, particularly the 622 as well as reported shortages of the D1000 antenna to pull in 129.
RT,

It's even worse than that. They are already mirrored on 61.5 in MPEG2, but they are flagged as MPEG4, so they are intentionally blocked from MPEG2 receivers.
My 622 install date is, in fact, 2/21. As you said, 3 weeks, but I don't need, and won't be getting a Dish1000.
I spoke to the installer who has the work order, and he told me if they get the receivers sooner, they would do the install sooner.
The delay is because of product availability and not of demand.

scheerce

02-01-06, 02:00 PM

Thanks to WMSCHULTZ for getting me up and running on the OTA. Strange how a cable that was used for 2 years on D* can be bad for OTA.

Now, my next complaint is the piece of $H!T that Charter gave me to replace the Moxi I told them to shove where the $H!T came from for 13.00 a month. So, it comes down to if I want VOD, I have to keep this horrible Motorolla box that I can not even modify the guide in. I HATE THE CABLE COMPANY!!!! but SBC/DISH or DTV will not come close to meet the package that I have with charter. DTV quoted me a price for their TV package above what I am paying for TV/PHONE/INTERNET through Charter.

scheerce

02-01-06, 02:08 PM

has anybody noticed on Charter's web page, under Charter HDTV, they mention having ABC as a HD channel. Is there anything they can do right?

scheerce

02-01-06, 02:16 PM

I know I am babbling, but my wife told me that yesterday, when charter came to take the Moxi, the installer told her I must be anal becuase I labled my cables. It wasn't because I am anal, it is because their installers are retards and can't figure out how to put the red plug in the red hole. I HATE THE CABLE COMPANY!!!!

Strange, I almost went to work for them down at Charter Commons. I would have had to kill myself if I accepted the position!!! I look back and wonder what I was thinking when I interviewed with them. Maybe it was all the channels for free, phone service, and internet service for free as a beni...

jdiehl

02-01-06, 02:18 PM

DTV quoted me a price for their TV package above what I am paying for TV/PHONE/INTERNET through Charter.

Wow, you must have a killer deal through Charter then. My Dad has TV/Phone/Internet with Charter and his bill is like $130+ And that's without any premium/movie channels, no DVR's, one standard digital cable box, no HD equipment, etc... He just has basic digital cable, 3Mbps internet and the phone thing.

My bill with DirecTV is $76.75/month. I have 4 total receivers, 2 of them are Tivo's, 3 of them are HD receivers.

Here's my breakdown:

Total Choice $41.99 (pretty much everything, including locals. No movie channels obviously).
HD Package $10.99
Tivo/DVR fee $4.99 (covers both DVR's)
Mirroring fee $4.99
Mirroring fee $4.99
Mirroring fee $4.99
Tax $3.81

I've paid nothing for installation (4 different locations) and have paid next to nothing for my receivers and upgraded receivers over the year's (after rebates, service credits, and free programming).

I have to call Charter in the next week or two to setup my internet install, and looking at the phone company options in O'Fallon (CenturyTel?) I'm considering the Charter VOIP phone thing. Is it any good? What kind of pricing/bundling can I expect (no TV service though).

WRacer

02-01-06, 02:21 PM

Doug,
Please note that KDNL-DT is now in 5.1....and I think the lip sync problem is resolved!
Jim

wmschultz

02-01-06, 02:23 PM

Doug,
Please note that KDNL-DT is now in 5.1....and I think the lip sync problem is resolved!
Jim

WOO HOO!

scheerce

02-01-06, 02:28 PM

My package looks like... (keep your mind out of the gutter)
Internet 3.0 MB 29.99
Phone + callid/callwaiting/callid with callwaiting/etc.. + unlimited long distance 19.99
TV basic, expanded (0-99), all movie channels (HBO,starz/Skinamax/TMC/etc), HD Package, 4 regular TV, 1 HD TV.....40.00 (was 46.99 which included DVR (Moxi) but that went up to 13.00 from 6.99 so I told them to shove it)

BudShark

02-01-06, 02:29 PM

The holy grail... maybe someday we'll see it here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638947

oby

02-01-06, 02:32 PM

has anybody noticed on Charter's web page, under Charter HDTV, they mention having ABC as a HD channel. Is there anything they can do right?

I think that probably there are several larger Charter markets where they do offer ABC HD --of course, Sinclair does not own the station in those markets. Also, and to be fair, there is asterisk at the bottom, stating that channel availability varies by market. What IS missing, however, is any mention whatsoever of other HD channels they offer in some cities, and not others. For example, we know that other Charter cities are blessed with TNT HD, UNIVERSAL HD, and STARZ HD. For whatever reason, some markets have these channels, other's don't. Charter does'nt mention these channels on their website--probably to keep people from calling, and asking why there not offered in their city.

Fiasco

02-01-06, 02:33 PM

Better yet give this guy a call. He setup me, my dad, and a few friends of mine. Last I checked he charged $99 for an antenna installed. Very cool and friendly.

Jon Kniss
A/V Concepts
C-314-704-0251
H-636-661-5478

Just tell him I sent ya and he should get you setup and make you a happy camper.

They came out today. $125 and I still have the same bad reception... ARGH!

scheerce

02-01-06, 02:33 PM

Oh ya, I told them I was currently with DTV and SBC and I got something called a "win back" plan or something like that. The tv is for 2 years, the phone/internet for 1.
I have not have any problems with charter technology (phone service, internet service, tv service), except my VOD never works. My problems are the company and people.

DroptheRemote

02-01-06, 02:46 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the reminder on the fact that you're now Dolby Digital 5.1. I really ought to have caught that one the first time around...

I've also amended the Guide to indicate that ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD are also capable of 5.1 surround.

For convenience, here's a link back to the message where the Guide can be downloaded:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7041311&&#post7041311

Fiasco

02-01-06, 03:51 PM

StLouG

02-01-06, 04:05 PM

The holy grail... maybe someday we'll see it here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638947

Bud this might be what the phone tech was talking about when he came out last week to hook up my service. He said that the Mehville area would be a test market for this technology by the end of the year. I sure hope he knows what he is talking about.

Fiasco

02-01-06, 04:34 PM

With Charter in St. Louis are all four channels of PBS available QAM? What level of service with charter do you have to have (and cost) to receive the QAM HD signals?

My MyHD reception problems have me pretty frustrated and I want the least amount expense possible w/ charter to get the HD locals.

I tried calling Charter and talked to 6 people and not one of them had a clue what I was talking about. I was told that the cheapest package that would let me watch my HD locals was $59.00!

Can you get the HD locals off the charter signal with a bare minimum package?

RaceTripper

02-01-06, 04:59 PM

scheerce

02-01-06, 05:03 PM

I only receive one PBS, NBC, CBS, WB, FOX on the HD from Charter. I get ABC via OTA. I pay seperate (3.99) for the HD pack to get ESPN, Discovery, HDNET, HDmovie. Maybe one or two more.
I am not sure what you have to get to be able to receive HD locals.

I was told that I have a "win back" plan, and I also heard I have a "tripple play" plan. I signed up back in Sept/Oct 05. It includes 0-99, 500-730. I get the local HD's becuase I have "HD Service" The ESPN, HBOHD, DiscoveryHD etc is the 3.99 HD Package. I ditched the DVR service becuase it went from 7.00-13.00. I only have one STB. The other TVs are straigt analog. I believe my bill was 46.99 +3.00 to rent the STB. I had a choice of 1.50 for the cable card instead of the STB. All in all, the package was 97.97 a month for TV,phone,internet. 19.99 for phone (with unlinited long distance), 29.99 for internet, and whatever is left for TV. These numbers are before tax.

rthomp03

02-01-06, 05:25 PM

RT,

It's even worse than that. They are already mirrored on 61.5 in MPEG2, but they are flagged as MPEG4, so they are intentionally blocked from MPEG2 receivers.
My 622 install date is, in fact, 2/21. As you said, 3 weeks, but I don't need, and won't be getting a Dish1000.
I spoke to the installer who has the work order, and he told me if they get the receivers sooner, they would do the install sooner.
The delay is because of product availability and not of demand.
Yeah, the Mpeg-4 headers burn me but the major problem for me is no dish at 61.5. From the side of my house where my D500 is mounted I can only see over to about 80, so I've been waiting for a D1000 even though I could have had the 61.5 install for free years ago due to KNLC and WRBU. It's just wrong to deny the current HD subs access to UHD in Mpeg-2 since it will contain lots of Olympic coverage here in 2 weeks and very very few people will have a Mpeg-4 box to see it. I also really want ESPN-2HD for the college basketball stretch run. In fact Mizzou is on ESPN-2 tonight and it's even in HD, but we can't watch it. :(

DroptheRemote

02-01-06, 05:52 PM

Dean,

The East and West FOX stations are included on page 3 of the Guide, and there's a footnote that explains receipt eligibility.

jdiehl

02-01-06, 05:59 PM

All in all, the package was 97.97 a month for TV,phone,internet. 19.99 for phone (with unlinited long distance), 29.99 for internet, and whatever is left for TV. These numbers are before tax.

Wow, that's a killer deal, I was just looking at it on their website I saw what you have:

Save Up to $600 off standard rates when you subscribe to Charter Digital Cable®, Charter High-Speed™ Internet and Charter Telephone™ for 12 months.
Charter Bundle – High-Speed + Digital + Telephone $99.97 per month

I'm sure you know that after 12 months (according to the fine print on that deal), you're pricing will go back to normal (which will probably be $150+ and that's assuming no rate increases).

I think "normal" prices are ~$40 for the phone, $40 for 3Mbps internet and $74 for their "Biggest Value Package" digital TV plan.

For someone in your situation (with only one HDTV and using analog cable on the other set's where you I guess don't mind not being able to see all of the channels you're paying for, ie. the premium and/or digital channels), then Charter makes sense. If you want 100% of your channels available on each and every TV in the house, then cable is typically more expensive than putting up a dish. Also, if you want DVR service on multiple televisions, cable probably can't compete with either Dish or DirecTV.

scheerce

02-01-06, 06:07 PM

jdiehl

02-01-06, 06:19 PM

JD, I agree with everything you said. I am sure everything will go up, but at that time I will switch to another provider for everything. When they go up after their year, I will switch again. I don't have anything that locks me into any technology for longer than 1 year. Even though it is a good deal, I would be willing to pay more for D* if they would just come close. Niether will. I just hate the cable company. We really need another option in STL for non-sat service. That would make charter provide better service, or face going out of business because all the customers leave.

hehe, now THAT is being thrifty... but one way to beat the system. :)

Both DirecTV and Dish should be able to offer you some discounts as a new subscriber, free premium channels, reduced rates for 3-6 months, etc... and a 12 month subscription (just like you did with Charter, to get their new subscriber deal).

scheerce

02-01-06, 06:25 PM

I hope, but I am waiting until after D* offers locals over the dish. Even though I just purchased a DB4, I don't want to keep it long term. I want it all through one source.

On another note, and this might not be the proper forum, what is anyones opinion on hdmi for charter instead of component? Is it really worth the $$ for the connection?

jdiehl

02-01-06, 06:29 PM

I hope, but I am waiting until after D* offers locals over the dish.

They told me May 06 when I setup my install last week, which is why they're putting mpeg4 stuff in my new home now (since it was close enough for them).

Fiasco

02-01-06, 06:36 PM

Let us know how it all works out for you.

They came and left and I still only get NBC and WB and a bill for $125. I have two antennas (CM 4228 and a DB4) and I told them I had dual inputs for antennas but they only bothered with one of them.

Determined to get at least ABC for my Superbowl party I climbed on the roof. I have pcanywhere on on my HTPC and I took my laptop onto the roof with me so I could monitor the signal via pcanywhere. After about 15 minutes I locked onto ABC without signal dropouts. I checked what else was available at the current antenna position and found I had CBS, NBC, WB and ABC locked with good signal. I got out the DB4 and put it on the poll and pointed it locking onto FOX. The only channel I don't get right now is PBS.

I'm a little irked that they gave up so quickly to run off to their next gig. I wouldn't recommend them to any friends. $125 is alot of money just to leave me where I was already especially considering with another half hour of work I was able to pull everything down except PBS.

scheerce

02-01-06, 06:41 PM

I am curious as to what/how you used your laptop to check the signal.

DroptheRemote

02-01-06, 06:57 PM

Just wanted to close the loop on my HD-TiVo replacement experience...

I first called DirecTV to explain the problem Monday evening at 9 p.m., and they agreed to send me a replacement at the end of that call. I didn't bother to check for the replacement receiver until this afternoon, thinking that the earliest it would show up would be Thursday (and more likely Friday). This afternoon when I called my Pak Mail office where I direct these sort of deliveries, the manager told me the FedEx had arrived first thing this morning.

Pretty impressive.

It took me about an hour to get the new receiver activated and it will take several more hours to get my 50+ Season Passes set up again.
Maybe there was a bit of luck involved here (getting the right CSR), but overall it was about as good an experience as you can have in this sort of situation.

RaceTripper

02-01-06, 07:24 PM

Dean,

The East and West FOX stations are included on page 3 of the Guide, and there's a footnote that explains receipt eligibility.
Oops...missed that 3rd page the first time. Sorry for the false alarm. Thanks for putting that together.

Fiasco

02-01-06, 09:24 PM

PCanywhere is a virtual desktop program. You run a host on one computer (myhd computer) and then log in with PCAnywhere on the other computer (laptop). This presents you with a virtual desktop of the host computer on the client computer.

So, i can manipulate the host computer remotely from my laptop. This lets me see the myhd program from my laptop so I can see what the signal strength is. So, I can sit up on my chimney and adjust my antenna and know exactly how it impacts my signal.

Matistic

02-01-06, 09:36 PM

Just wanted to post to thank you all on here. I've got Charter for cable/internet/phone and have had zero trouble with them. But I was desperate to be able to get ABC in HD, and I read a few of you saying you had inside antennas that worked for you so I gave it a shot, knowing there was zero chance the wife would be ok with an outside one. :)

Happy to report that a simple $30 Radio Shack antenna works great, in my basement even! Picked up ABC with zero trouble and I can't wait for the SuperBowl now. FYI, I live in St. Peters near Mid Rivers Mall Dr so if anyone else is in the same boat and area I would think it's worth a shot.

Thanks a ton!

StLouG

02-01-06, 11:04 PM

In the past three days I have received two different phone calls from D* wanting to know if I wanted to switch companies. Also received a phone call from Charter on the same subject and high speed cable internet service. Thought about Charter they were willing to give me their small high speed cable service for $19.95 a month for one year. I am still mad about their CSR attitude over my phone service so I said No thank you.

black_macleod

02-01-06, 11:24 PM

In the past three days I have received two different phone calls from D* wanting to know if I wanted to switch companies. Also received a phone call from Charter on the same subject and DSL service. Thought about Charter they were willing to give me their smaller DSL package for $19.95 a month for one year. I am still mad about their CSR attitude over my phone service so I said No thank you.

Charter offers DSL?

StLouG

02-01-06, 11:58 PM

Charter offers DSL?

My error should have read high speed cable service. Have edit my post

kjohnson

02-02-06, 12:51 AM

Just for the heads up, Gannett sister station WXIA-TV (channel 11) is rolling out HD newscasts tommorrow at 6pm. Previously, kSDk and WXIA were to rollout newscasts on the same date, February 6th. WXIA apparently decided to opt to start HD news with the first day of February sweeps (February 2nd).

KSDK is still slated to go 'live' with HD newscasts on Monday. The reason I mention this, is that WXIA has assumedly what KSDK will be showing us on Monday.

Another issue has cropped up. KSDK and KTVI routinely do not have their PSIP info programmed. If a person has a HDTV/DVR box, won't that cause serious problems recording programming? I was thinking about buying one, to aid with DVD creation and/or VHS copying.

Kudos to KMOV, KETC, WRBU, KDNL, and KPLR for keeping their PSIP up running at least 90% of the time.

DroptheRemote

02-02-06, 10:36 AM

kj,

If you're getting a DISH or DirecTV DVR, the PSIP guide info won't be an issue, as that guide info is provided from the satellite feed, not the OTA signal. At least I think that's correct for DISH -- it's definitely true for DirecTV.

On the other hand, if you're talking about an OTA-only DVR such as a Zenith/LG or the Sony (the Sony also has CableCard capability), then the PSIP data would be critical to doing timed and recurring recordings.

In terms of getting KTVI and KSDK to follow through on PSIP provision, I suspect that your best bet would be to contact engineering directly and establish if they are providing it (maybe there's a technical issue at your end), or if they don't provide it, why not.

It might also be worth Googling to see if there's any FCC requirement on PSIP. I don't think there is, but if there were that might help you get your message across in speaking with the local stations.

kdg454

02-02-06, 10:38 AM

At least I think that's correct for DISH
Yes Doug, correct.

DroptheRemote

02-02-06, 10:40 AM

kj,

Whoops -- I should have checked before I said there wasn't likely an FCC mandate. Apparently there is, and the deadline for compliance was a year ago:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/news/n_PSIP_Newsp1.shtml

Now you can hammer away at them, with confidence that they need to follow through.

DroptheRemote

02-02-06, 10:56 AM

Charter Joins with AOL to Offer Broadband

I'm puzzled why Charter needs AOL, apart from maybe a lightened marketing/promotion load.

Does the AOL brand really have any value these days? Time-Warner and its major shareholders don't seem to think so...

The following story is from the Business Wire:
________________________________________________

AOL and Charter Communications, Inc. (Nasdaq:CHTR) today announced a partnership to offer consumers the AOL(R) service and Charter's high-speed Internet access.

The combined offer provides AOL members access to the AOL service's leading security features and exclusive content via Charter's true high-speed Internet connection at the competitive price of $25.90 per month. Beginning on February 6, 2006, AOL members in the Charter footprint will be able to sign-up for the new combined offering, as well as order a cable modem, making it simple and convenient to upgrade from dial up.

"With the addition of Charter to AOL's coast-to-coast broadband network, we're expanding our footprint so that more AOL members around the country are able to take advantage of a competitively-priced high-speed offering," said Joe Redling, President of AOL's Access Business. "We're happy to add this major new cable partner to our network of Internet providers as we are entering this new phase for our company."

Bob Quigley, Charter's Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer, said: "Through this innovative marketing partnership, we're targeting new high-speed customers and expanding our customer base. Our robust high-speed product makes all aspects of the Internet experience better, and together with AOL's popular online service, provides a very compelling offer."
________________________________________________

For the complete store, click here. (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060202005527&newsLang=en)

MSloss

02-02-06, 11:28 AM

For my fellow St. Charlians, there is a new promotion from Centurytel:

Metro calling plan
unlimited long distance
1.5MB/256K DSL

All for $69.95 ($39.95 for phone + $30 for DSL)

I was running 768K and paying more than this. I called to change to this plan and lowered my monthly bill about $20 in the process.

The only problem - a speed check before and after the upgrade shows wildly fluctuating actual speeds and QOS issues. I have a service ticket in to see if they can get that resolved. However, I did see 1.2M download speeds on some of the tests, so I know it is faster than before.

They also offer a discount on Dish with this package, but I am staying with D*.

Mike

BudShark

02-02-06, 12:54 PM

Another issue has cropped up. KSDK and KTVI routinely do not have their PSIP info programmed. If a person has a HDTV/DVR box, won't that cause serious problems recording programming? I was thinking about buying one, to aid with DVD creation and/or VHS copying.

As an extension to what Doug said - he is correct on the satellite, cable recordings.

I cannot speak at all to Zenith or Lg.

Sony's OTA HD DVR uses TVGuide data which is pumped out via Analog OTA waves (they do not use PSIP). So as long as TVGuide is current - the KSDK content would display current regardless of what they do with PSIP.

Chris

oldavman

02-02-06, 01:24 PM

Channel 30 ABC HD channel is having audio sync problems. I e-mailed their tech and he responed very promptly. I appreciate this kind of action! See my e-mail and his response below:

The prime time programming on ABC is not syncing the sound and video
on the HD broadcasts. I am picking up the HD signal via over the air
antenna. When I switch to my satellite receiver to receive the local
KDNL ABC analog programming there is no sync problem. Can you supply
an answer? Thanks.
Dennis Fester
oldavman@yahoo.com

Channel 30 response:

We are working hard to fix the problem....replacement equipment should
arrive today....should have it fixed by the Super Bowl. Thank you for
your comments.
Jim Wright
314-259-5757

black_macleod

02-02-06, 01:31 PM

jdiehl

02-02-06, 01:41 PM

For my fellow St. Charlians, there is a new promotion from Centurytel:

Metro calling plan
unlimited long distance
1.5MB/256K DSL

All for $69.95 ($39.95 for phone + $30 for DSL)

Mike

Mike,

How is the phone service from CenturyTel? My Dad is in O'Fallon and had them for a year, said they "sucked" and recently switched over to Charter's phone with unlimited LD. I was hoping to have SBC phone for my new home, but it looks like it's CenturyTel. I don't have an interest in the unlimited LD with either Charter or CenturyTel (that's what the cell phone is for) and I'm 99% sure that I'll get Charter for my ISP (3 or 5Mpbs package). Do you know what their regular rate is for just basic phone service, metro calling and perhaps caller id?

That package price looks pretty good though. I think Charter would be $40 for the phone w/ unlimited LD, $40 for the cable (3Mbps though). Or $30 for their 384Kbps connection.

winnie6052

02-02-06, 01:44 PM

T Minus 3 days and no solution to ABC HDTV

Swanni: Stop the HDTV Blackmail!!

Good morning! This edition of Swanni Sez is sponsored by HDNet. If you would like to sponsor Swanni Sez and TVPredictions.com, send an e-mail to: swann@tvpredictions.com.

And, don't forget to ask about our special discount on weekly rates --and our 'Buy 2, Get 1 Free' offer. It's a great way to reach a large number of people. In January, TVPredictions.com had more than 1.2 million page views. That's 1.2 million.

So if you want more exposure for your product and/or company, place your ad or press release here! For no extra charge, it will appear in both the Swanni Sez newsletter and the TVPredictions.com web site!

Now, Swanni Sez, let's go to the news!

The Columbus Dispatch reports that the Sinclair Broadcasting-owned ABC affiliate in Columbus, Ohio will not let Time Warner Cable show this Sunday's Super Bowl in HDTV. Sinclair officials, the newspaper says, want Time Warner to pay additional fees for the high-def feed. The cable operator is refusing, saying that network feeds are normally not compensated.

Well, as I have stated previously here, I think that the cable operator is right. Sinclair -- and the other non-network owned stations around the country that are pulling the same stunt -- are using HDTV as blackmail to try to generate additional revenues. (In some cases, they are also trying to force cable operators to carry additional digital channels.)

And the hostage in this blackmail situation is the poor high-def owner.

Sinclair, LIN TV and other blackmail artists say that high-def owners should use off-air antennas (instead of cable) to get high-def signals. But they know full well that most high-def sets do not have a tuner inside, which is necessary for the off-air antenna to deliver the signals. So, for most people, it's cable or nothing.

This situation is an outrage. Sinclair, LIN TV (which is denying its ABC HDTV feed to cable viewers in Hartford, Connecticut) and the other blackmail artists were granted the right to own these stations -- and broadcast their signals -- by us, the taxpayers, via the Federal Communications Commission.

They don't really own the stations; we do. And if they don't cut this crap out soon, we, as high-def owners, should go to the FCC and ask for their licenses to be revoked! Or perhaps, we should simply stop watching their channels entirely. That just might get the attention of the networks themselves, which would put pressure on Sinclair, LIN TV and others to stop using high-def owners as pawns.

And I'm as serious as a heart attack on this issue. Readers, if you agree, let me know. If we can hit them where they live, perhaps they will re-consider.

And, finally, to all my journalist friends who are reading this, I urge you to cover this story as soon as possible. It's timely, important -- and largely unreported thus far. A little sunlight from the media would exposure this blackmail effort for what it is.

You can read more about Sinclair at The High-Def Life -- and offer a comment on my commentary! The High-Def Life, my reality blog, has thus far generated more than 20,000 readers. Today at The High-Def Life, you can also read:

kjohnson

02-02-06, 02:19 PM

Robert Simandl

02-02-06, 02:33 PM

Charter Joins with AOL to Offer Broadband

I'm puzzled why Charter needs AOL, apart from maybe a lightened marketing/promotion load.

Does the AOL brand really have any value these days? Time-Warner and its major shareholders don't seem to think so...

(snip)

The combined offer provides AOL members access to the AOL service's leading security features and exclusive content via Charter's true high-speed Internet connection at the competitive price of $25.90 per month. Beginning on February 6, 2006, AOL members in the Charter footprint will be able to sign-up for the new combined offering, as well as order a cable modem, making it simple and convenient to upgrade from dial up.
]

The attraction would be for people on dialup to upgrade to highspeed without paying any more than they currently do for dialup. Well, AOL dialup anyway.

I know several people that pay AOL $25 a month for dialup and refuse to switch to broadband because they just plain like AOL (Lord only knows why). :D

This new offer would also be attractive to people on Juno, NetZero, Netscape, or PeoplePC dialup ($10 per month) that may have thought about upgrading to broadband but didn't want to pay the $35-50 per month that most broadband services charge.

I'm assuming this price is for Charter's lowest speed tier (1.5mbps?). I have the 3mbps tier and pay $40 per month, including a $10 per month discount for also having phone service.

MSloss

02-02-06, 02:49 PM

Mike,

How is the phone service from CenturyTel? My Dad is in O'Fallon and had them for a year, said they "sucked" and recently switched over to Charter's phone with unlimited LD. I was hoping to have SBC phone for my new home, but it looks like it's CenturyTel. I don't have an interest in the unlimited LD with either Charter or CenturyTel (that's what the cell phone is for) and I'm 99% sure that I'll get Charter for my ISP (3 or 5Mpbs package). Do you know what their regular rate is for just basic phone service, metro calling and perhaps caller id?

That package price looks pretty good though. I think Charter would be $40 for the phone w/ unlimited LD, $40 for the cable (3Mbps though). Or $30 for their 384Kbps connection.

Jon, I have had no problems with the phone service. I wasn't using a lot of LD because of cell phones, but I had the .05/min plan with Centurytel and it will be nice to use the unlimited land line instead. I am considering that a free bonus.

The $39.95 will get the whole phone package w/o DSL, including just about every extra feature - call waiting/forwarding, caller-id, voice mail, etc.

If they can get my DSL line cleaned up and consistent, I will be happy.

Oh, I forgot to mention they are supposed to have 3MB available for $15 (I think) more.

Mike

jdiehl

02-02-06, 02:54 PM

I'm assuming this price is for Charter's lowest speed tier (1.5mbps?). I have the 3mbps tier and pay $40 per month, including a $10 per month discount for also having phone service.

Their lowest tier is actually 384Kbps. Ugh. My inlaw's have it in Chesterfield and while staying there over the holidays it felt like going back to dialup again (having used 5Mbps for 2yrs).

Robert - what's your total Charter bill? (assuming you have only phone + 3Mbps, no TV service, which is exactly what I'm going to probably go with). Thanks.

kugumby

02-02-06, 02:59 PM

I believe it was kdg54 that mentioned that he already had a Dish Vip211 receiver. I called E* last night to see what it would take to upgrade my 811 to the 211. I spoke to 2 CSR's, because the first one was clearly an idiot and had no idea what was going on. The second one seemed only slightly better. They said that I could get the 211 for $49. That I understand, but then don't you need to upgrade your HD package to one of the new tiered plans to receive all of the HD channels that are being sent out in mpeg4? (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum)

Both CSR's tried to sell me the new receiver without a mention of the new programming. The first guy was even trying to give me a half off price for 6 months on the *OLD* HD package. (He later backtracked on that one.)

So, those that have upgraded, what do you have?

I also spoke to a CSR earlier in the day about the 622 receiver. This guy actually knew what was going on, but I was at work and didn't have time to ask about the other stuff. To get a 622 (for someone that does NOT have a 921 or a 942) the cost is $299. This is a leased unit and they are calling it an 'upgrade fee'. I believe owners of the 921's and 942's get some form of rebate on that $299. He went through the new HD programming with me. and it looks like I'd get the Gold package and drop HBO (Gold package comes with the Encore movie channels) or get the Silver package and keep HBO in order to stick around $75/month.

Has anyone signed up as a new customer with Direct TV lately? What kind of deal did you get? My goal is to get an HD DVR for as little as possible. I can't really swing the $300 deal from Dish at the moment so that's why I was looking to do the lateral move but I'd still get the new mpeg4 channels. Just no DVR. (I have a Dish 508 which is an SD DVR at the moment.)

Sorry for being so long winded and thanks in advance for any help.

John Kotches

02-02-06, 03:18 PM

kugumby:

I have a Vip211 as well, I've had it for a week. It works better than the 811 with one exception the Recall (Prev Channel function) doesn't work between OTA and Satellite yet.

Yes, you do need to "upgrade" your package to see the MPEG-4 flagged HD channels. The breakdown is roughly like this for the packages:
Bronze = AT60 + HD
Silver = AT120 + HD
Gold = AT180 + HD
Platinum = AEP + HD

The cost is within a few dollars of the old equivalent package with the voom channels.

Regards,

jdiehl

02-02-06, 03:29 PM

The $39.95 will get the whole phone package w/o DSL, including just about every extra feature - call waiting/forwarding, caller-id, voice mail, etc.

If they can get my DSL line cleaned up and consistent, I will be happy.

Oh, I forgot to mention they are supposed to have 3MB available for $15 (I think) more.

Mike

I just called CenturyTel to get the skinny. It's an extra $10 for the 3MB line, instead of $30 for the 1.5Mbps line. They make you do a 1yr commitment though, in order to get a free modem (otherwise $49.95 to buy a modem). $23.xx to establish service for the phone. DSL install is $35, but they have a $35 credit, so $0 there.

The phone package sounds great, all for $39.99. I asked, and just a basic metro calling plan line, no unlimited LD, no extra features, would be about $40. So that's a good deal (basically, same as Charter's).

So, CenturyTel vs Charter for phone+internet:

-Phone plans seem identical in price and features ($39.99 + taxes/fees, unlimited LD, lots of features)
-broadband also is the same price ($40) for the same speed (3Mbps).

However:

-ADSL can be flaky (in my experience with it, although that was 6yrs ago)
-Cable can go out too (but I hear the phone is generally not affected)
-Charter has the potential for 5Mbps if/when I want to pay for it
-Charter is more likely to raise my phone and/or internet rates before CenturyTel (just a guess)
-Charter has horrid customer service (although, CenturyTel might too, for all I know)
-CenturyTel might get bought out (SBC/AT&T?) and my plan might go bye bye
-CenturyTel requires a 1yr contract to avoid a $50 charge for equipment. I have a cable modem already, so that would be free, and the install from Charter is free (with auto-debit).

This shouldn't be that difficult to decide. :confused:

Robert Simandl

02-02-06, 03:37 PM

Jon,

3mb Pipeline: $49.99/month

Phone: $29.99/month

Discount for having both: -$10/month

Total per month: $69.98.

My pipeline does seem to die for two hours at a time about every other day (e-mail can't connect to server, browser can't find any web sites, ********** downloads 0bps) and has for a few weeks now. I've thought about upgrading to 5mb service but not til they get this fixed.

jdiehl

02-02-06, 03:55 PM

Thanks Robert.

I just called Charter to get their best deal. They offered me:

6 months @ $59.98:

- 3Mbps internet, including the modem (which I don't need)
- phone + unlimited LD and 5 calling features + voice mail

Normal rate for this is $82.99 ($39.99 for phone, $42.99 for internet).

He said that when my 6 months are up, call to turn in my modem (and go with the one that I owned in STL 2yrs ago) and that will make the internet part $39.99 instead.

Install (phone and internet) is free with automatic debit program. No contract required of course.

5Mbps is $59.99/month, no discounts for having another service. I pay $29.99 for 5Mbps now, without anything else from Road Runner. No way I'm paying Charter $60 for the same thing. Ouch.

Charter's $59.98 internet + phone seems like my best bet, considering there's no install fees, no contract, and it's $20 cheaper than CenturyTel.

Thanks guys for letting me hash this out in the thread, hopefully the info will help someone else moving soon or considering a switch of services.

kdg454

02-02-06, 04:40 PM

JK,
The recall starting working (OTA>SAT<OTA) on my 211 after Dish downloaded 2.62 last night.
It also fixed the P/UP-P/DN use for HD/SD aspect ratio, just as the 811 had.

Scott Tucker

02-02-06, 05:07 PM

John Kotches

02-02-06, 05:14 PM

kdg,

I'll have to reprogram my recall button. It is possible that it's an issue with the programming on that button on my pronto.

Cheers,

jdiehl

02-02-06, 06:44 PM

Jon,

For what it's worth. You know about Charter's service. It doesn't get any worse. My experience with Centurytel has been first rate. When I call in they answer and help me. I have phone and dsl and both have been great for 2 years now. The DSL speeds used to be flaky, but the last year or so have been rock solid. Good luck if you choose Charter.

Scott

Yeah, I know all about their customer service. For the $20/month savings for the next 6 months, I'll give Charter a whirl again to see how it works out. Nice part is nothing out of pocket due to no install fees and no commitment either. I can always go with CenturyTel this fall if Charter jacks around.

I'll let you guys know how it goes (as well as my D* mpeg4 install in 4 weeks).

jimglobe

02-02-06, 07:28 PM

repair4man

02-02-06, 09:38 PM

The first few minutes of CSI tonight was in 4:3 aspect ratio with gray letter box on sides. After several minutes this was corrected. My question for the experts, I keep hearing about the switch flip issue where somebody at the broadcast station forgets to change the ratios. My HD receiver seems to be able to handle changing aspect ratios, stereo to DD sound switches, why can't the broadcast encoders upmix or convert the signal so that it passes through the source format? It seems to me like the broadcasters would rather pay for a totally automated process than have to rely on technicians to make manual adjustments on a split second basis.

lhandlin

02-02-06, 10:15 PM

Robert Simandl

02-02-06, 10:32 PM

mclark98

02-03-06, 12:29 AM

5Mbps is $59.99/month, no discounts for having another service. I pay $29.99 for 5Mbps now, without anything else from Road Runner. No way I'm paying Charter $60 for the same thing. Ouch.

$29.99 for Road Runner service? If I'm reading correctly, you live in O'Fallon - I didn't think Road Runner served our area. Would you mind providing insight on how that works? I suppose you could also just PM, since I'm getting off topic. Thanks!

jdiehl

02-03-06, 12:49 AM

$29.99 for Road Runner service? If I'm reading correctly, you live in O'Fallon - I didn't think Road Runner served our area. Would you mind providing insight on how that works? I suppose you could also just PM, since I'm getting off topic. Thanks!

Sorry. I'm moved from St. Louis to Tampa 2yrs ago, and moved to Houston last year... now I'm returning to St. Louis this month. I had RR service in Tampa/Houston. ;)

MoInSTL

02-03-06, 07:11 AM

It was pretty strange. I thought Survivor was HD and I guess it's not. When CSI came on, I got very confused. I can't believe it's not automated.

The first few minutes of CSI tonight was in 4:3 aspect ratio with gray letter box on sides. After several minutes this was corrected. My question for the experts, I keep hearing about the switch flip issue where somebody at the broadcast station forgets to change the ratios. My HD receiver seems to be able to handle changing aspect ratios, stereo to DD sound switches, why can't the broadcast encoders upmix or convert the signal so that it passes through the source format? It seems to me like the broadcasters would rather pay for a totally automated process than have to rely on technicians to make manual adjustments on a split second basis.

DroptheRemote

02-03-06, 08:21 AM

Survivor -- as for most current "reality" shows -- is not in HD. At the moment the main "reality" exception is "American Idol." Same goes for news magazine shows -- at the moment, they're all SD.

On a nearly related topic, HDTV Magazine recently ran a story that listed the television shows that have made the shift from being shot on film to being shot with some type of HD camera. I was surprised to see how many shows have made the switch. Shooting with HD cameras is attractive to television production studios because once the learning curve is negotiated, working in HD video is considerably cheaper, and depending on the aims and ability of the director, it's capable of producing a look that is very similar to film.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/02/2005_hd_acquisi.php

One of the interesting things about that list is that the shows that are generally acknowledged to have the best HD picture quality -- "Lost," "CSI," and "Las Vegas" -- apparently continue to be produced on film.

I doubt that film production will ever die off, but the trend toward HD video by Hollywood proper is definitely taking root, with filmakers such as Robert Rodriguez ("Once Upon a Time in Mexico" and "Sin City") and Steven Soderberg (he has a deal with Mark Cuban to produce six films made via HD camera for HDNet, including the recently shown "Bubble").

All a long-winded way of saying that the reality shows will probably be taking the HD plunge very soon.

DroptheRemote

02-03-06, 08:55 AM

It's Getting Closer: DISH Launches HD Locals in NYC & LA

The following is from today's TVPredictions.com newsletter:
_________________________________________________________

And speaking of spending more money to compete, EchoStar has announced that it's adding local High-Definition TV channels in New York and Los Angeles. The nation's second largest satcaster says that more markets will get local HD in the next few months.

While costly, EchoStar has little choice but to offer local HD since DIRECTV has made a sizable commitment to providing the service in dozens of cities this year.

In addition, cable is already providing local HD in most markets. (Unless, of course, the local station won't provide the feed. See below.)
_________________________________________________________

For more about the LA and NYC HD local launches and more HDTV and TV industry news, click here. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/)

rthomp03

02-03-06, 08:58 AM

According to the forums, they are up and available to those cities.

MoInSTL

02-03-06, 08:58 AM

Survivor is a guilty pleasure and avoided it until last year as junk TV. It's still junk TV IMO, but sometimes I need a mindless distraction.

Survivor -- as for most current "reality" shows -- is not in HD. At the moment the main "reality" exception is "American Idol." Same goes for news magazine shows -- at the moment, they're all SD.

On a nearly related topic, HDTV Magazine recently ran a story that listed the television shows that have made the shift from being shot on film to being shot with some type of HD camera. I was surprised to see how many shows have made the switch. Shooting with HD cameras is attractive to television production studios because once the learning curve is negotiated, working in HD video is considerably cheaper, and depending on the aims and ability of the director, it's capable of producing a look that is very similar to film.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/02/2005_hd_acquisi.php

One of the interesting things about that list is that the shows that are generally acknowledged to have the best HD picture quality -- "Lost," "CSI," and "Las Vegas" -- apparently continue to be produced on film.

I doubt that film production will ever die off, but the trend toward HD video by Hollywood proper is definitely taking root, with filmakers such as Robert Rodriguez ("Once Upon a Time in Mexico" and "Sin City") and Steven Soderberg (he has a deal with Mark Cuban to produce six films made via HD camera for HDNet, including the recently shown "Bubble").

All a long-winded way of saying that the reality shows will probably be taking the HD plunge very soon.

PWSHER

02-03-06, 09:21 AM

mclark98

02-03-06, 09:40 AM

(In response to jdiehl's move back to St. Louis from an area with Road Runner service)

Ah, makes sense. I think I even remember reading that earlier in the thread. Welcome back.

DroptheRemote

02-03-06, 09:50 AM

Sort of off-topic again, but I thought this might be of some interest...

Below is a table that shows the small-dish satellite penetration in the top 10 US cities, based on data compiled by industry researcher, The Bridge.

Of course St. Louis isn't among the top 10 and I'm not sure where it ranks, though like Atlanta which is also a Charter market where DISH and DirecTV specifically target their pitches, I would expect satellite penetration here to be at the higher end of this range, rather than the lower end.

New York 14.72%
Los Angeles 23.64%
Chicago 17.97%
Philadelphia 9.50%
Boston (Manchester, NH) 9.73%
SF-Oakland-San Jose 17.86&
Dallas/FW 32.19%
Washington, DC (Hagerstown) 22.09%
Atlanta 30.61%
Houston 21.84%

mclark98

02-03-06, 09:56 AM

To all those looking for a Moxi from Charter, I will share my experience...
I called in November/December asking about getting a Moxi installed. I didn't have an HDTV yet, and didn't want to get one if I didn't have a HD signal to feed it. Several CSR's told me the same thing, that they don't have any, and didn't know when they would get more in. I asked about a waiting list, and was told they didn't do that anymore. (From reading this thread an others, I can see why, since they don't seem to actually follow up with it).
I currently had Dish Network with a 508 SD DVR. I have totaly spoiled myself and won't ever be able to have TV without a DVR again, so I looked at D* and E* for their HD DVR offerings. Both were asking far too much. So, I put my HD plans on hold for a while.
I called Charter back up in early January, and lo and behold, they had a Moxi. But they specified they only had the Moxi with the Mate service. I don't really have a need for the 2 room service, but the larger hard drive interested me, so I signed up and got my install last week (I purchased my HDTV the weekend before).
The main HD box gives out a glorious picture (on the right channels). The Mate in the extra bedroom is giving me an awful picture. Grainy and slight audio noise. The only connection out of it is coax, which is unfortunate. At the time of install, I pointed this out to the tech, and he said the Mate "just hadn't synced up yet with the main box". The BS detector was deafening, but I don't really need the thing anyway, because I'll very rarely watch TV in that room. The extra charge is really going to bug me in 3 months when my discounted rate expires (I refused to go for a contract). I will be calling Charter to see if they won't take the Mate back and just charge the single DVR fee.
I've also been keeping up with the MPEG4 happenings with D* and E*. I am inclined to go with one of the 2 within the next 3 months. E* has the edge so far it seems, with many more HD channels. So the moral of this needlessly long post is that, like others have said, you have to play roulette with the Charter CSR's until you find someone who knows how to find the Moxi boxes on their computer to order for you. (I called the 636 number).
Now to just suffer through not getting the SuperBowl in HD (my TV has no OTA tuner, and I don't feel like spending hundreds for the one night.)

scheerce

02-03-06, 10:10 AM

Hi all,

I'm interested in getting Charter HD for home, but they appear to have a policy that they have to install the box. My problem is that for the 10 years I've had cable in the area, I've had 8 installs of some sort--lots of moving when in grad school. On six of those they screwed up the install so I'd prefer to do it myself, but they are insisting on $35 to install and they have to do it. Has anyone here gotten around this and installed on their own? It's bad enough when they are messing with just their equipment, but I don't trust them with mine.

Second, I know I've read about this previously, but is Charter going to carry all of the KETC HD broadcasts? Unfortunately, I live in a slight valley in U City where the KETC signal doesn't come in well (neither does cell phone coverage or satellite radio terrestrial signals for that matter) and I'd really like to get the other channels. I rent so for now an antenna on the roof isn't realistic.

Thanks,
Larry Handlin

Charter needs to install the Moxi, if that is what they are putting in. There is no way around that. As far as the 35.00 goes, when they told me that, I laughed at them and said if you want me as a customer, do it for free. A loud laugh on the phone will help. The moxi connects via IP. In my opinion, it is flaky, and with mine they had to reboot it many times. Plus, they will get on the phone while they are installing it and tell their operators your MAC address. It has a meter in it and it must get a strong enough signal to work properly. Otherwise, your channels drop out of the menu.

The Moxi, if that is what you are getting, is a decent box, but very slow. I don't think it is worth $13 for the DVR service to get the Moxi. The Motorola they give instead is a POS. I just gave back my Moxi and got a Motorola box. I hate it. Can't even configure the guide to not show unsubscribed channels. This may be fixable as I have only played with it for a short time. Plus, the Moxi is smart enough to be able to pass through the HD signal in its native form 1080i or 720p. The Mot* box has to be hard set to one or the other.

My opinion is, ether go OTA for local HD and get D*, or wait until May/June when DTV will offer the locals over the dish. Believe me, as soon as D* has the locals over the dish, I am going to call charter and tell them their crap is on the porch, come get it.

scheerce

02-03-06, 10:28 AM

When I first got my service from Charter, I got the Moxi installed. I don't think that you will ever get a new box. That is when the DVR service was 6.99. The first one they brought out was a unit that had been bouncing around the bed of the guys truck. It was beat to heck. It would lose all sound after 45 minutes. I called and two weeks later they brought out another one. This one was also beat to heck, but the audio worked. This one though, had every soap opera configured to record and a BUNCH of other crap configured to record. After I got all this cleaned up, this I realized the parental lock was still set and I did not have the PW.

Just another example of how a$$ backwards and screwed up Charter is.

The rest of this story is a technical note that some may understand, but others won't. It just goes to show how bad they are.

On a personal note, I interviewed with them at their Charter Commons building. It is their main data center for all their computers. I am a unix guy and a friend moved over there as the director over that area. He wanted me to come over so I went out for a chat. First thing he said is they pay their employees good, but won't spend a dime on new technology. His team is scraping together PC's to run Solaris on intel hardware. I asked why Solaris and not RedHat Enterprise. The response was that the people know solaris already, and they could not justify training. This is a not good in that a lot of IT is switching to RHE. All the ISV's port their code to RHE.
How is a company that does not invest in technology, does not train its employees, and puts in "one off" solutions going to provide good service to their customers. Just look at their online email access. It is the cheapest POS I have ever seen!!!

tcfila

02-03-06, 12:27 PM

Now to just suffer through not getting the SuperBowl in HD (my TV has no OTA tuner, and I don't feel like spending hundreds for the one night.)

Why not buy one and take it back on Monday b/c you didn't like it...

DroptheRemote

02-03-06, 12:38 PM

The message below was posted earlier today over on the Kansas City OTA forum here at AVS. It would be nice to hear that KCPT, Kansas City's PBS station, is indeed shutting down the subchannels during evening hours.

Even better if this were adopted by other PBS stations such as KETC -- and by commercial broadcasters going the subchannel route.

______________________________________________

Anyone know what the new game plan at KCPT is? I noticed this past week that during the day, they are broadcasting 3 SD 480 subchannels, and during the evening, they are broadcasting only one 1080i channel. It looks like they've completely re-evaluated their digital broadcasting, again.
______________________________________________

If anyone is interested in following this discussion, here's a link to it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=234120&goto=newpost

DroptheRemote

02-03-06, 12:46 PM

dweebe

02-03-06, 01:44 PM

FYI -- I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that the Post-Dispatch is working up a curtain-raiser article on kSDk's HD news broadcasts, which are scheduled to start on Monday.

I spoke with P-D reporter Gail Pennington earlier this week.

The article is currently scheduled to appear in Sunday's paper, and the story is likely to include a link (www.stlhdtv.info) to our discussion here.

Hopefully they'll get it right.

Got home from my second job last night and turned the news on kSDk around 10:10. They were doing one of their many 'scare" pieces about anyone's cell phone records being for sale. Anyway; the piece was letterboxed in 16x9 and when they went back to the studio it was back to 4x3 full screen.

I wonder if everything will be 16x9 on Monday's news? I also wonder if an upgrade of the weather graphics will be coming?

I guess we'll see Monday.

WinstonSmith

02-03-06, 02:02 PM

Doug, did you get any quotes in w/ Gail?

I used to participate in the forum she used to have on the P-D website, which was called "Tube Talk." She seemed pretty nice and might be receptive to the "other point of view" that many of us here have.

djearl81

02-03-06, 02:13 PM

Who knows what KSDK will be doing. I'm sure that they'll be some bumps along the way.

I applaud KSDK for attempting to bring news in HD. Perhaps the other stations will take notice. Also, the local news brings a lot of viewers and will raise HD awareness...even if it's not 'technically' working correctly.

I can see a lot of people complaining about a bad picture on other stations after watching the HD news for a few days. The letters and newspaper articles should (fingers crossed) spark more interest in HD.

but you already knew that...

Go NFC!!! Go Seahawks!!!!

_token_

02-03-06, 02:51 PM

MSloss

02-03-06, 04:27 PM

Thanks for the heads up Mike! :)

I got free LD & doubled my DSL speed for less than I was paying.

Token

You're welcome. They should be sending me commissions! ;)

I know this is getting OT, and nobody with Charter or AT&T really cares, but has anyone with Centurytel DSL tried their speed test from their support page? Based on bad results from those tests, I had them come out and check my line. The tech tells me not to use their own test page, he uses dslreports.com. From there he is getting 1.0 to 1.2M consistently, where their own test page is showing 600K-900K. So apparently I am working just fine. I will try some big file downloads tonight to see what that shows, but just curious if anyone else gets similar results.

Mike

Update: downloads fine (150KB/sec). Count me as 100% satisfied now.

MoInSTL

02-03-06, 04:58 PM

I sent a short email to KSDK last week saying I was looking forward to the local news in HD. I received this equally short reply: Thank you for your kind words and for watching Newschannel 5.

Since I just moved here I don't have a preference yet for local news and just wanted to give them some positive feedback. I can't help but wondering how many new HDTV sales their marketng blitz may have generated.

Who knows what KSDK will be doing. I'm sure that they'll be some bumps along the way.

I applaud KSDK for attempting to bring news in HD. Perhaps the other stations will take notice. Also, the local news brings a lot of viewers and will raise HD awareness...even if it's not 'technically' working correctly.

I can see a lot of people complaining about a bad picture on other stations after watching the HD news for a few days. The letters and newspaper articles should (fingers crossed) spark more interest in HD.

but you already knew that...

Go NFC!!! Go Seahawks!!!!

RaceTripper

02-03-06, 05:16 PM

Edit: reply to post no longer relevant (original post deleted by mods).

MSloss

02-03-06, 05:54 PM

No one's interested in Spam. Go away. Besides, your message is against forum policy.

That is a little harsh, in my opinion. I don't know if his posting is against forum policy or not, but I can vouch for the legitimacy of his company. My wife and I participated in focus groups with them quite a few years ago. Like he said, they pay you for your time to pass along consumer input to the company interested in marketing new products. They don't try to sell you anything.

Mike

RaceTripper

02-03-06, 06:00 PM

That is a little harsh, in my opinion. I don't know if his posting is against forum policy or not, but I can vouch for the legitimacy of his company. My wife and I participated in focus groups with them quite a few years ago. Like he said, they pay you for your time to pass along consumer input to the company interested in marketing new products. They don't try to sell you anything.

Mike
No, it's not too harsh. He posted spam. He had absolutely nothing to share or contribute, or even to express an opinion on. All he wanted was to find participants for his market research business -- he is soliciting for his business. Doesn't matter whether it's a legitimate business or not. It's still spam, and what he posted is against forum guidlines.

But I'll let the mods settle it by reporting his post. If they say I'm out of line I will apologize.

Edit: apparently the moderators agree with me because the message is gone (deleted).

Dean

scheerce

02-03-06, 07:44 PM

Just saw the KSDK commercial about HD for the 100th time. I am all for it, but how can they say that no matter what kind of TV you have, you will see a difference?

Also, do you think the on screen personalities are worried about looking bad (wrinkles, grey hair, etc). We will now see them with more detail than ever before.

moman19

02-03-06, 09:11 PM

Hey Jim,

You probably know this, but the sync is still way off on "In Justice" tonight in HD. Video way ahead of voice. I'm watching via straight OTA. The Superbowl's almost here, hint, hint.......

muah

02-03-06, 10:18 PM

repair4man

02-03-06, 11:10 PM

I'm not the expert on this issue, but from I've read in the forum you probably have a multipath issue. This web site provides a process potentially involving two silver sensors to deal with multipath signals http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html Hopefully it won't take you until the superbowl to solve the problem.

redwine

02-03-06, 11:54 PM

Charter and AOL deal.....it was bound to happen. Charter has hired several ex AOL executives. Does anyone know what speeds are offered?

duvy56

02-04-06, 12:07 AM

Hi there,

I am looking for some tips on how to optimize my HDTV reception for ABC in St. Louis. Several outdoor antennas have failed. I have tried both the Terk HDTVlp indoor antenna and the Silver Sensor antenna, and these seem to give me the best results, but still not good enough. I can get them to hold a signal reasonably well, but it never holds on consistently. Every few minutes it will give me several seconds of choppiness in the picture and sound. And other times, I will get choppiness for a minute or two. And this is only after fiddling with the angle of the antenna to get it just right.

Do you have any tips on how I can improve this performance? Would an amplifier of some sort help? I thought with a digital signal that once you acquire the signal, it should either be perfect or not there at all. I live in the 3rd floor of a condo building with a large window facing south, but I have a 4 story building in my line of sight.

I'm trying to get this working better, because I would love for my Super Bowl party to feature HDTV!

Thanks. I was having the exact same problem. Tried alot of antennas. Went to Antennas Direct and bought their indoor SR8 said it was for multi path problems. Just arrived and I put it in the same spot as the others I've tried and low and behold I got everything even UPN I didn't get before. All the channels that were dropping out and macro blocking are just fine now. Antennas Direct sent me the wrong one the first time but corrected their mistake (at no cost to me) and sent the right one. They were great to deal with. The # is 1-877-825-5572.

duihlein

02-04-06, 12:14 AM

FYI to those trying to get SB reception.
I was just out at a friends house adjusting his antenna to make sure we would have a good signal Sun.

His problem is he is low on a hill so the antenna has to be high, but it's in the attic.
I was trying to set it up with a vertial orientation (it's a Yagi) as shown below

" \
" \
" \
" \
===========
" /
" /
" /
" /

The highest signal I got that way was 60.
I turned it horizontal to get another foot and the signal went up to 90.

I thought the antenna had to be vertical, but I guess that is not the case.

Either way, we got 90 so we should be good on Sunday!!!!!

Dave

OK, so I can't get the formating for the picture right. I hope everyone gets the idea.

kdg454

02-04-06, 12:36 AM

On one of the HD news advertisements tonight, KSDK announced they will be debuting the HD news on the 10pm broadcast on the 6th.

I'm curious....does anyone here know which newscast draws the largest audience, 5pm, 6pm, or 10pm?

dweebe

02-04-06, 02:38 AM

Here's the previously mentioned Post Dispatch article;
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/stories.nsf/tvradio/story/34220F7AD5004C318625710A0037B9D0?OpenDocument

Ready or not, St. Louis, KSDK is set to begin local programming in high definition
By Gail Pennington
POST-DISPATCH TELEVISION CRITIC
Sunday, Feb. 05 2006

In 1947, when KSD-TV signed on, only a handful of St. Louis homes actually had
television sets. A few hundred viewers watched those early broadcasts, most of
them in bars or through hardware store windows.

More than half a century later, the station now known as KSDK (Channel 5) finds
itself testing similarly uncertain waters. At 10 p.m. Monday, KSDK is scheduled
to flip the switch to high definition - HDTV - for its locally produced
programming, and again, nobody is quite sure how many people will take notice.

HDTV is the next big thing for television, as big as the change from black and
white to color, some suggest. Transmitted digitally, with up to eight times as
many of the dots called pixels that make up a television picture, HD images are
significantly sharper than regular analog images. Scenes are lifelike, colors
are vivid and beads of sweat on a football player's forehead practically splash
off the screen.

Aficionados who have already spent thousands of dollars on big-screen,
high-definition television sets crave more programming and swap tips on
obtaining the best possible picture. But Americans have been slow to rush en
masse to buy pricey HDTV sets, available since 1998.

Projections were that 10 percent of consumers would buy an HDTV in 2004; only 3
percent did. Of those who do own HD sets, more than half haven't bothered to
set them up to watch high-definition broadcasts, surveys have found. This past
holiday season, HDTV sales soared, but many of those sets were later returned
because of confusion or disappointment.

Nevertheless, new projections expect HDTV sets to arrive in 15 percent of U.S.
homes by the end of this year, up from 6.4 percent in 2004. Buyers who have
begun to admire high-definition sets in friends' homes and in stores may be
spurred on by dropping prices and desire to see special events, such as the
upcoming Winter Olympics, in wide-screen glory.

KSDK chose to time its $3 million high-definition conversion to the Olympics,
which begin Friday on NBC. The change comes with an expansive new two-story set
for newscasts and with new studio cameras that shoot in true HD (for buffs, the
format is 1080i).

For stories outside the station, digital cameras acquired in 2000 won't be
replaced; instead, the images they produce will be "upconverted" to HD in a
process that Dave Hummert, KSDK's director of technology, says produces
excellent results. (Skeptics suggest that seeing is believing.)

"Obviously, the most benefit from the change will be for people who have HDTV
sets, but we think people who still use analog sets will notice a shaper
picture, too," Hummert says.

Prime-time shows and many sporting events on NBC and other broadcast networks -
ABC, CBS, Fox, the WB and PBS - are already available in high definition. KETC
(Channel 9) has shot a little local programming in HD and has one camera that
can be taken into the field to shoot high-def segments.

Including newscasts and "Show Me St. Louis," 5 1/2 additional hours of HD will
be available on KSDK beginning Monday, Hummert says.

Co-anchors Karen Foss and Mike Bush will be the high-def guinea pigs when the
switch is flipped at 10 p.m. Monday. One concern, naturally, is how on-air
talent will look in the supersharp new format.

"Worried? I'm still worried," Bush says, laughing.

Foss says high definition "is more unforgiving in some ways, but it's also more
real."

Consultants were brought in to advise the newscasters about necessary
alterations to their on-air images, and one bit of advice was to use
significantly less makeup and to choose more subtle colors, she says.

Test footage shows HD to be surprisingly flattering to Foss and Bush. In part,
news director Mike Shipley says, that's because the sensitive high-def cameras
operate in lower light - "restaurant lighting," he calls it - that doesn't wash
out people.

But small flaws, such as lint on a lapel, can be distracting in high
definition, Shipley says, reaching under the news desk to pull out what he
calls "our new best friend": a sticky-surface lint roller.

KSDK is only the seventh station nationally to switch to high definition for
its local programming, general manager Lynn Beall says.

Stations will be required by the federal government to switch to digital
broadcasting in the next few years, she says, "but there's no requirement to
make an investment in high definition."

Doing so is a way to provide an enhanced viewing experience to those who are
passionate about high definition without slacking off on the "meat and
potatoes" of news coverage, Beall says.

As KSDK opened its doors to advertisers and opinion-makers at an open house
last week to show off the new studio, competitors were reserving judgment on
the move.

"Everybody will get there eventually," KTVI (Channel 2) general manager Spencer
Koch said of the move to high definition. "When, is a matter of choice. We
chose to invest in coverage and products that support it."

A spokesman for KMOV (Channel 4) said, "Our corporation is looking into it, but
there's no timeline at this moment. Since our viewers are going to be investing
a lot of money in this equipment, when we do it, we'll be sure to do it right."

KSDK was not just the first station to sign on in St. Louis, it was the first
to convert to color, in 1956, Beall says.

"It's fun to be a pioneer," she says.

Foss echoes her: "It's fun to be first."

gpennington@post-dispatch.com

There is a small picture that shows the new set.

MoInSTL

02-04-06, 07:00 AM

Interesting link. It shows an amp in there. I have D*'s OTA (the double bowtie)and was thinking of adding this amp from Radio Shack. http://heh.pl/&2G0 My antenna run was done minus any diplexor. Trying to use my Silver Sensor alone is not helping me with dynamic multipath.

What do you guys think?

I'm not the expert on this issue, but from I've read in the forum you probably have a multipath issue. This web site provides a process potentially involving two silver sensors to deal with multipath signals http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html Hopefully it won't take you until the superbowl to solve the problem.

MoInSTL

02-04-06, 07:07 AM

My guess is they are debuting at 10PM so they have overnight to fix any problems that may crop up. OTOH, it could be the 10PM slot is the most watched.

On one of the HD news advertisements tonight, KSDK announced they will be debuting the HD news on the 10pm broadcast on the 6th.

I'm curious....does anyone here know which newscast draws the largest audience, 5pm, 6pm, or 10pm?

Achernar

02-04-06, 08:27 AM

So to anyone who's trying to snag a DVR from Charter, all I can say is that you just have to call often enough (or so it seems).

I started with them with an agreement back in December. Previously had D*, but new apartment building has some ridiculous restrictions on dish placement, and I'm facing the wrong direction on top of it - never mind that I'm not in a DSL service area, either - so Charter was basically my only option.

I have yet to discover why people have problems with them - I've had nothing but pleasant conversations, but I haven't had a major problem yet, so maybe that's the difference.

Anyway, when I signed up, I asked about a DVR, and was told that I would have to contact them again in mid-January because they didn't have any. So I called them this week to ask them, and was told that they had them in for three days last week and went through all of them - not heartening. Personally, I didn't believe them - so I called later that evening and spoke to another CSR (BTW, I only ever call the Overland call center). She checked my address, and told me that I would have one delivered to the house within two weeks.

Did something change? Does someone know the secret location of these DVRs? I don't know.

And from other things mentioned higher up - they mentioned nothing about an install fee. I mentioned to them that I would have all the cables they would need already in place, but we'll see if they listen to me. They also mentioned to me that it is an HD box as well as an SD box - I'm looking to buy a TV in the next three months (any suggestions on where to buy?).

So is the only DVR they are deploying anymore the Moxi? Which model will I get? I've done some research, and haven't been able to find out much.

I was suprised to find that Charter is a founding member of the HDNA - anyone else ever hear of this?

Anyway, look forward to some discussion once I get the HD rig going here...

DroptheRemote

02-04-06, 09:02 AM

Redding (CA) Charter Subs Get Super Bowl Reprieve

The following story appears at the web site for the Redding (CA) Record Searchlight.

My first thought (hope) was that maybe Charter and Sinclair had reached some sort of interim agreement that would allow other stations to carry the game. Unfortunately, in digging further, I've determined that KRCR is not owned by Sinclair, but rather a company called Lamco Communications.

Not much consolation for in-the-dark viewers here, but this at least indicates that Charter attempted to get a Super Bowl reprieve in those markets where it could.

I assume that the extreme negotiating position taken by Sinclair is the main obstacle to this sort of agreement between Sinclair and Charter.

_______________________________________

Charter Communications cable customers with high definition TV will be able to see the Super Bowl on Sunday in HD due to a "one-time" agreement with the local ABC affiliate KRCR.

North state Charter spokeswoman Susie Evans said the cable company continues to work on finalizing a longer term HDTV agreement with KRCR.
_______________________________________

Full story can be found here. (http://www.redding.com/redd/sp_pro/article/0,2232,REDD_17584_4441523,00.html)

DroptheRemote

02-04-06, 09:40 AM

FWIW, I haven't seen the weekend Post yet, but I believe there is going to be a sidebar FAQ in the paper that will address basic HDTV newcomer questions.

That's where the link to the forum would probably appear, if it made the final cut.

I thought the main story was very good, particularly the details on what kSDk is planning. I'm surprised there won't be any HD cameras in the field and expect there to be a lot of additional comment about that here.

However, I did think the story background on the HDTV market was a bit more pessimistic than warranted. But then, I'm obviously an "advocate" and not close to being unbiased on this subject. This part of the story isn't a "doom and gloom" job, but probably something the average reader would find discouraging and/or inhibiting. Whether that's warranted or not, I can't say for certain.

A few specific points about that aspect of the article:

* While 2004 sales didn't reach the Consumer Electronics Association's suggested target, I think the bigger positive is that the market has achieved, or is very near to, 10% HDTV household penetration. That's traditionally the point at which advertisers will seriously focus on a new medium, and I think that's definitely happening now, based on reports that more than half of this year's Super Bowl ads will appear in HD.

* Probably the biggest negative in the story is the unquantified "many" holiday HDTV returns. There's no context to this, which makes it a sort of reader Rorschach. Many could mean 1,000 returns, and yeah, that could fairly be considered many; but would 1,000 returns still qualify as "many," if the overall holiday sales were 100,000?

I also appreciate from the reporter's viewpoint that getting this sort of data can be difficult, and there's also an issue of space constraints. But I think the lack of context here is a shortcoming.

FWIW, I talk to dealers and retailers quite a lot, and I don't get the sense that HDTV returns due to buyer disappointment (leaving aside technical issues that result in swapouts or actual returns) is a major issue for them. But I have to admit I haven't specifically asked that question.

Maybe Tom Grooms or Mattman can give us their perspective on that issue?

* Finally, the lack of HD tuners has been a legitimate issue, but I think that issue is sort of "stale." My anecdotal evidence is that many early buyers deliberately held off on buying a tuner until there was more programming and lower prices. My sense is the "gap" between HDTV units and set-top boxes connected to them has been closing rapidly over the past 12 months. At the very least, it's not a static issue and from my perspective there's no evidence at all that it's getting worse.

This tunerless HDTV issue was first highlighted in a CEA news release well over a year ago, and I think the organization would be wise to update the media with more recent data.

Achernar

02-04-06, 10:40 AM

* Probably the biggest negative in the story is the unquantified "many" holiday HDTV returns. There's no context to this, which makes it a sort of reader Rorschach. Many could mean 1,000 returns, and yeah, that could fairly be considered many; but would 1,000 returns still qualify as "many," if the overall holiday sales were 100,000?

Having worked at a Circuit City for six months until very recently, I can say that HDTV returns are a huge problem.

I blame it entirely on big box retail and salespeople not taking the time to educate customers properly. The people buying these sets are starting to be people who aren't early adopters - they don't read up on the latest tech news, they don't stay current with what's hot - but they are going into stores, and they are replacing big screens, and all that there is to choose from is HD, or they're lured in by flat-panels (which were far more popular this year). Stat - Circuit City in the St. Louis market did 400% to last year on flat panels, but projo sales fell 60%.

I would routinely take over an hour per sale to explain to people the benefits *and drawbacks* to HD. I knew some salespeople who were not so interested in explaining things to people, nor in talking to them about negatives. It bore out in return percentages - some people had as much as 30% volume returned in a month - mostly due to people getting it home and hooking it up to SD. Those customers, if not properly prepared, resulted in quick returns.

What the article likely doesn't take into account, though, is that a lot of people would buy the cheap flat panels that were on sale, and then realize when they got them home that they were inexpensive for a reason; they would then return them and either get a larger size or look into a more reputable brand. We saw a lot of that.

I do think there's a lot of returning going on, but I think it's being offset by increasing customer education (though not by retail chains, IMO) and upgrading on returns. I would say my CC did about 60-70% of their TV sales in HD sets, maybe even more - that was a very promising figure.

Now about getting more programming...

marky2306

02-04-06, 01:24 PM

Charter and AOL deal.....it was bound to happen. Charter has hired several ex AOL executives. Does anyone know what speeds are offered?

Redwine,

This is not just a Charter - AOL deal. AOL needs Charter and other broadband companies rather the other way around.

DSLreports AOL Story: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/71630

From cedmagazine.com :

AOL plans to expand broadband network nationwide

January 27, 2006
Copyright 2006 MarketWatch.com Inc.
All Rights Reserved
January 27, 2006 Friday 11:21 AM EST
By Carla Mozee
From LexisNexis

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Time Warner Inc.'s (twx) America Online said Friday it plans to expand its broadband network nationwide and has partnered with BellSouth Corp. (bls) , Time Warner Cable, and Verizon Communications (vz) , and other major DSL suppliers to offer the broadband service.

Financial terms of the agreements weren't disclosed. AOL said customers will be able to sign up for its AOL High Speed service beginning on Monday, with service starting at $25.90 and $29.90 for people served by BellSouth.

Mark

redwine

02-04-06, 01:47 PM

Redwine,

This is not just a Charter - AOL deal. AOL needs Charter and other broadband companies rather the other way around.

Mark

Mark,

I agree AOL needs broadband for its survival. I wonder how many other AOL executives went to work for other broadband providers? Charter seems to have more than its fair share. :confused: The guys at that level all know each other usually (good ole boys club). I doubt if Charter hired any "fresh thinkers" and we will continue to muddle on with mediocrity.

lhandlin

02-04-06, 04:42 PM

I let them install it but gave them the old song and dance that I have been with them for 20+ yars and I am not going to pay this...they said OK!!

This may not answer your question but on Charter, KETC (ch9) is really not in HD..what you get is PBS-HD which can be different programs than you normally see on KETC. No Donnybrook is not in HD. I think Martin Duggen would scare young children :)
Additionally the HD picture is OK but can't compare to Discovery or HDNet etc.

Given two of you had the same experience, I'll push next time. I gave up too easily since I was annoyed. It's the principal of having to pay for mediocre installers--and just stubborn when it comes to Charter anymore. I'm not doing Moxi, so it shouldn't be that hard, but hey

And, yes I know it's not the HD quality, but the different signals--having young kids PBSKids would be great to have--is that what you mean by different programming?

And amen on Martin Dugan. Or for that matter, McClellan

Thanks,
Larry

Robert Simandl

02-04-06, 06:26 PM

I can also attest to HDTV returns being a growing problem.

Never mind the signs in front of nearly every HDTV saying "don't forget to upgrade your signal." And never mind my showing people the HD signal, flipping the set to SD and saying "this is what the TV looks like with a standard signal."

I guess there's always gonna be somebody that loads a TV on his cart himself while I'm over in the computer aisle, and that somebody isn't always gonna read the signs.

But yeah, I think a big part of it is people thinking they can hook up the same old cable box they've had for ten years and get the same picture that the displays are showing in the store.

tcfila

02-04-06, 06:57 PM

rs691919

02-04-06, 11:52 PM

Hi all...I just recently stumbled onto this forum, and I have tried to search the thread for info but could not find a summary of the local St. Louis issues regarding mpeg 4 and Direct TV. I apologize in advance if these questions are rehashed; I'm very close to upgrading to an HDTV set and I already have Direct TV standard def with a triple LNB dish. My understanding is that in some unspecified amount of time, Direct TV will be upgrading to mpeg 4 with 5 LNB dishes and local channels broadcast in high def. My questions, then, are as follows:

1) When upgrading to HD, will Direct TV pay for the installation of the off-air antenna? If they do pay for it, is their installation service any good?

2) Does anyone know the approximate time they will upgrade in the St. Louis market? I was told that in Dallas, where my dad lives, it should have already happened; but I'm not sure that it has.

3) Should I get the HD DVR that they offer? I've read some reviews that say the menus are "slow", etc? However, I've never had TiVO (and I really want it!), so I have nothing to compare to.

4) If I get the HD DVR, will Direct TV ultimately upgrade my hardware (i.e. receiver AND dish) to the proper equipment when they go to mpeg 4?

5) Should I be asking any other questions or am I totally off base with the above questions?

Thanks in advance!

Tom Grooms

02-05-06, 02:13 AM

....FWIW, I talk to dealers and retailers quite a lot, and I don't get the sense that HDTV returns due to buyer disappointment (leaving aside technical issues that result in swapouts or actual returns) is a major issue for them. But I have to admit I haven't specifically asked that question.

Maybe Tom Grooms or Mattman can give us their perspective on that issue?.....
I don't have return issues personally nor do I see them a lot in my store (Ultimate Electronics Mid-Rivers). The people who complain about lousy picture quality are the same ones who try to return "extra" cables. What the hell is an extra cable? (you know, the ones that came in the box are perfectly fine) I sell them a complete solution, if they have problems, I visit their home. I draw them a hook-up diagram if they're taking it with them and if not my Delivery staff wires up their products and teaches them how to use it. When they tell me the Food Network channel looks like ass on their new 73" Mitsubishi Diamond Plus from a 10' viewing distance, DUH! I explain this to them in advance but its another case of Hear me know, Listen to me later. I make sure my customers know what HDTV is all about before we even start discussing display device technologies.

Having worked at a Circuit City for six months until very recently, I can say that HDTV returns are a huge problem.

I blame it entirely on big box retail and salespeople not taking the time to educate customers properly. Agreed! But what percentage of CC's staff would you consider to be "strong salespeople". The experience can vary wildly at UE depending on who you talk to. Not all our guys share the same passion as we do. ;)

I can also attest to HDTV returns being a growing problem.

Never mind the signs in front of nearly every HDTV saying "don't forget to upgrade your signal." And never mind my showing people the HD signal, flipping the set to SD and saying "this is what the TV looks like with a standard signal."

I guess there's always gonna be somebody that loads a TV on his cart himself while I'm over in the computer aisle, and that somebody isn't always gonna read the signs.

But yeah, I think a big part of it is people thinking they can hook up the same old cable box they've had for ten years and get the same picture that the displays are showing in the store. It scares me to death to think people are loading up HDTVs into shopping carts. "Don't forget to upgrade your signal."? ? No offence Bob but Joe Six-pack doesn't have a chance if he buys a TV while you're at lunch, even if he reads the signs. Believe me, They're across the street everyday wasting my time for "free advice".
Can you help me? I bought this from [insert retailer or wholesaler here] and have a few questions.

Technologize Responsibly ;)

DroptheRemote

02-05-06, 09:05 AM

1) When upgrading to HD, will Direct TV pay for the installation of the off-air antenna? If they do pay for it, is their installation service any good?Many DirecTV resellers will sell you and offer installation of an antenna, but you should expect to pay for it (in most cases). DirecTV used to offer an antenna that clipped onto the dish, but according to online reports, these rarely work well. You're probably best off in buying your own antenna, based on recommendations you can get here and elsewhere, and work something out with your satellite installer to mount the antenna (if you're going rooftop) or position it in the attic, along with running the coax cable needed alongside your satellite cables.

2) Does anyone know the approximate time they will upgrade in the St. Louis market? I was told that in Dallas, where my dad lives, it should have already happened; but I'm not sure that it has.There is no hard date from DirecTV for St. Louis digital locals, but the April-May timeframe is looking likely at the moment.

3) Should I get the HD DVR that they offer? I've read some reviews that say the menus are "slow", etc? However, I've never had TiVO (and I really want it!), so I have nothing to compare to.To me, having HD without having a DVR is close to unimaginable, even though I experienced that pitiful state for several years (I did have a D-VHS recorder, but that's no substitute for a true DVR).

The HD-TiVo that DirecTV continues to offer works well and gets the job done. Yes, it's true that certain functions are slow, but that's hardly a reason to go without. Current subscribers can get the HD-TiVo for an after-rebate, out-of-pocket cost of $200 or less. There is a monthly TiVo charge -- I think that fee is $4.99 a month. Of course, you also have your other Total Choice and premium package (including HD) costs on top of that.

4) If I get the HD DVR, will Direct TV ultimately upgrade my hardware (i.e. receiver AND dish) to the proper equipment when they go to mpeg 4?Again, there's no official word, but indications are this will be relatively pain-free from a financial standpoint. For customers who are getting MPEG-4 upgrades currently, they are reporting that DirecTV is extending the length of their contract commitment by 1 or 2 years in return for free replacement of the primary HD receiver and for the new dish required.

In my experience, going through the retention desk always yields better results for these sort of "negotiations." When the time comes, that's how I'll probably approach it, unless DirecTV pre-emptively offers me a completely free upgrade. FWIW, DirecTV is generally doing well in terms of profit and growth, but there's a major focus on customer retention, so you should be able to make that work for you.