Doug, D* now uses a 2-bay bowtie instead. They no longer use the clip-on antennas.

rs691919, I was charged $50 for the antenna and cabling. I already had a 3 LNB installed free from Movers Advantage. I made sure to ask for a direct antenna line with no use of diplexors. If I didn't have multipath issues the bowtie would be fine as I get strong signal strengths (some high 80s, a couple in low 90s). D* said they would refund $30 if the antenna didn't help. I had to negotiate that. So basically I am out $20. OTOH, I look at it as only paying $20 for the antenna cable run.

They will line the OTA antenna up based on antennaweb.org. They add up the degrees and point it in between. I would suggest you go there and after you put in all of your info choose Show Digital Stations Only and click on the color and they will suggest what type antenna to get.

Edit: I don't find the HD DVR slow. Maybe because it's not full of info. since it's still new. I try to avoid using thumbs up/down and never have a whole slew of recordings. I was able to get D* to agree to upgrading me to a 5 LNB dish and HD 20 in May when we get locals. As Doug suggested, call the retention desk. I had to call 3 times to get the deal I wanted.

HDTV Information & Resources Available for Newcomers

With traffic here likely to increase over the next week or so as a result of the www.stlhdtv.info link being included in the Post-Dispatch story over the weekend, I'd like to welcome any new visitors here and suggest you read the message referenced in the link below.

That resource/info message is re-posted here periodically to help HDTV newcomers develop a baseline of knowledge about HDTV and how to receive HD channels over the air and/or via satellite and cable.

The message can be read by clicking here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7039547&&#post7039547)

1) When upgrading to HD, will Direct TV pay for the installation of the off-air antenna? If they do pay for it, is their installation service any good?

2) Does anyone know the approximate time they will upgrade in the St. Louis market? I was told that in Dallas, where my dad lives, it should have already happened; but I'm not sure that it has.

3) Should I get the HD DVR that they offer? I've read some reviews that say the menus are "slow", etc? However, I've never had TiVO (and I really want it!), so I have nothing to compare to.

4) If I get the HD DVR, will Direct TV ultimately upgrade my hardware (i.e. receiver AND dish) to the proper equipment when they go to mpeg 4?

5) Should I be asking any other questions or am I totally off base with the above questions?

Thanks in advance!

Doug already answered your questions, but just to confirm them:

1) No, they don't generally pay for the OTA antenna, or it's installation. That's all negoitable, but you don't want their clip-on antenna anyway. Do it yourself, after the installer leaves.

2) I was told May 06 when I setup my install for early March (I'm moving).

3) I love my HD Tivo, can't imagine watching HD without it (you know, actually having to be a slave to primetime schedules). We have a SD Tivo in the bedroom, and use it to watch non-HD stuff before going to bed, but anything else is watched from the HD Tivo. Yes, it's slow and clunky, and not as fast as my R10 in the bedroom, but it's well worth it (especially if you can get OTA in your location, which would mean the mpeg4 upgrade might not be worth it for you).

4) It's all rumors at this point, since the new mpeg4 HD-DVR isn't out yet, but everything is pointing to a free upgrade (and likely a 2yr renewal of your commitment). The new equipment won't have Tivo either. It will be DirecTV's own software (and if that's anything like Dish's, or most cable company's, expect it to be weak in comparision to Tivo's functionality).

5) Your main question would be, why would I want the mpeg4 equipment? Really, the only reason to upgrade, if you already have the triple LNB dish, is if you can not receive OTA HD signals reliably in your location. Keep in mind, when the locals do become available through D* this year, it's only going to be the main 4 networks (not WB, UPN, PBS, etc). You'll still need an OTA antenna to pick up everything else (and maybe ABC too, seeing as how that's going with Charter... not sure if it will be the same with D*).

I'm getting the newer dish installed for 1 reason only.... they pretty much didn't give me any other option when I called to schedule it through their mover's connection program. So, I'll have the new dish, but still plan to put up my OTA antenna in the attic to get OTA signals at my HD receivers. While I was at it, they offered to upgrade one of my older HD receivers with a new mpeg4 one, so I agreed. That way, at least I can keep up to speed with the HD LIL's that they're offering, but my antenna will likely be the primary source for HD signals since I need it still for my HD Tivo, ABC may or may not be on D*, and neither will WB (and all of those Cardinal's games).

rs691919, I was charged $50 for the antenna and cabling. I already had a 3 LNB installed free from Movers Advantage. I made sure to ask for a direct antenna line with no use of diplexors. If I didn't have multipath issues the bowtie would be fine as I get strong signal strengths (some high 80s, a couple in low 90s). D* said they would refund $30 if the antenna didn't help. I had to negotiate that. So basically I am out $20. OTOH, I look at it as only paying $20 for the antenna cable run.

That's not a bad deal at all. Basically $20 for the cable run. How many receivers did that cover though? I'd need 2 extra runs for OTA and was planning on diplexing again (even with the 5LNB dish, apparently you can diplex in OTA still, as long as the run is going to a mpeg2 receiver).

Just one as I have only one HDTV. I have an R10 in the bedroom.

I don't know much about antennas but I figured if D*'s did not work I could plug the cable into another one. The diplexor cuts into the signal a tad too so I just opted for a clean run.

That's not a bad deal at all. Basically $20 for the cable run. How many receivers did that cover though? I'd need 2 extra runs for OTA and was planning on diplexing again (even with the 5LNB dish, apparently you can diplex in OTA still, as long as the run is going to a mpeg2 receiver).

Jon makes some great additional points.

I would also add that I believe getting local digital/HD stations OTA (over-the-air) is the best way to go, recognizing that this means you're probably going to have to deal with some of the hassles that are involved in getting an antenna set up.

One of the single biggest drawbacks to subscription television, regardless of whether it's cable or satellite, is the variable amounts of compression that are applied to the channels offered. This is particularly an issue with standard-definition channels -- that's why SD channels tend to look marginal on a big screen display.

I'm not suggesting that DirecTV or DISH, or Charter are (or will be) over-compressing HD local channels, but it's certainly a risk down the road. In terms of OTA broadcast HD programming, it currently doesn't get any better than the signal you can receive with an antenna.

For this reason, receipt of these channels via an antenna should be seriously considered, particularly if picture quality is a hot button for you.

Doug, what else was added? Was there a sidebar as you suspected?

HDTV Information & Resources Available for Newcomers

With traffic here likely to increase over the next week or so as a result of the www.stlhdtv.info link being included in the Post-Dispatch story over the weekend, I'd like to welcome any new visitors here and suggest you read the message referenced in the link below.

That resource/info message is re-posted here periodically to help HDTV newcomers develop a baseline of knowledge about HDTV and how to receive HD channels over the air and/or via satellite and cable.

The message can be read by clicking here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7039547&&#post7039547)

Thanks, Doug. My understanding is that the mpeg 4 willl create more bandwith, but possibly degrade the picture quality; if it does increase bandwith, will Direct TV be increasing it's HD lineup? Seems like a lot of networks are starting up HD channels (Food, HGTV, even History).

Mo,

Thanks for the word on the demise of the clip-on DirecTV antenna.

May it rest in peace... ;)

Yes, MPEG-4 -- and the launch of a handful of additional satellites -- is designed to allow DirecTV to aggressively expand its HD programming.

The current focus for DirecTV is to offer the primary network channels in the largest US markets. My understanding is that by midyear 2006, they will be offering local HD channels in cities that account for roughly 50% of US households. Once they reach that point (or a bit beyond it), I expect that the focus will turn to adding more national HD channels and probably offering them only in MPEG-4 format.

Although DirecTV touts itselfs as the HD leader, with recent additions by DISH Network, DirecTV is way, way behind the true leader. They are going to have to turn their attention to this deficiency soon, because they'll almost certainly suffer, particularly as HDTV momentum is accelerating by the day.

I'm not an expert on MPEG-4, but basically it is a more efficient codec that will allow roughly twice as many channels in the same bandwidth as MPEG-2. But like MPEG-2, MPEG-4 compression can be varied, so there's an issue of trade-offs.

DirecTV and DISH both have the ability to reduce the amount of compression loss via MPEG-4 and improve picture quality and still gain significant bandwidth savings. Or they can allow the same relative amount of compression loss and reap the full benefit of MPEG-4 in terms of additional channel capacity.

And, of course, they could apply even more compression and end up with worse picture quality, but I think that is unlikely to happen, at least in the near term.

MO,

Yes, there was a sidebar that includes some basic answers to basic HDTV questions.

The article also includes an excerpt of my Programming Availability chart, with a credit to my company and a note that the complete chart is available here at the forum.

Thanks Mo and John as well (I posted before I saw your replies). So, when you called DTV, there were pretty firm in giving you a May date for locals in HD? I'm really not too excited about their current HD programming; in fact, the main reason I have Direct is for the NFL ticket. But if they were to expand their programming, I'm assuming that you will have to upgrade to mpeg 4 receivers and a new dish; I just want to time it right so I don't double my cost and buy two of everything within a year (the boss might have a conniption).

So you don't watch or want to record network broadcasts? I like HD Discovery a lot and the movie channel is good too. They pretty much give you 3 months free and $10.99 a month thereafter. I got an additional $10 credit for 12 months so it works out to .99 a month after the 3 month free period. (I got a bunch of other credits and free Showtime for 6 months which adds another channel in HD).

if you negotiate a deal with D* like I did you won't pay double. They are not going to charge me for the H20 or the 5 LNB although I will have to agree to 1 or 2 years commitment. I've been with them a little over 4 years and I'm pretty satisfied so another year or two commitment is a moot point for me.

They aren't firm on their May time frame. They just don't know for sure. There is no official time for the roll-out but some think it is tied to the Nielsen markets. We are market number 21. http://heh.pl/&2G5


Thanks Mo and John as well (I posted before I saw your replies). So, when you called DTV, there were pretty firm in giving you a May date for locals in HD? I'm really not too excited about their current HD programming; in fact, the main reason I have Direct is for the NFL ticket. But if they were to expand their programming, I'm assuming that you will have to upgrade to mpeg 4 receivers and a new dish; I just want to time it right so I don't double my cost and buy two of everything within a year (the boss might have a conniption).

I was wondering if anyone can help me out with my over the air ABC feed? I am getting issues with the sound not matching the peoples lips.

It's an indoor antenna, and I have Samsung HD TV. I am just using the speakers built in the TV.

Anyhelp would be nice, especially if the pre game is in HD.

Thanks,

wolverine5767

I was wondering if anyone can help me out with my over the air ABC feed? I am getting issues with the sound not matching the peoples lips.

It's an indoor antenna, and I have Samsung HD TV. I am just using the speakers built in the TV.

Anyhelp would be nice, especially if the pre game is in HD.

Thanks,

wolverine5767


Its an ABC issue, not yours. They were "supposed" to have it fixed by the Bowl, hahah, good luck to you. I'll be watching in SD :)

I am having the same issue with my Samsung HDTV and ABC. The audio is way behind the video when they show anything in HD. My Yamaha receiver has an audio delay feature, but that's not what we need here! It's okay when you are watching football because the talking heads are off the screen for most of the action. But it's totally unwatchable for a movie.

Especially since the game is on a 5 second delay today, it'll probably be one HDTV mess that will leave a lot of ppl angry.

Wolverine, if you check back a few pages you'll see that KDNL-30 definitely has a lip-synch issue.

The sound does not always match up w/ the video. It was believed to be fixed, but it still may not be.

Very likely, the problem is not on your end. That may or may not make you feel any better, partciularly if you're having a party, but I think that's the best answer you're going to get.

But it's totally unwatchable for a movie.

Last night I watched Harry Potter for a little and it was terrbile.

I guess I ll watch the pre game in SD, then switch over to HD for the game.

Take care guys,

wolverine5767

perhaps we could get ABC to provide digital delay units so we can time align the audio? ;)

So you don't watch or want to record network broadcasts? I like HD Discovery a lot and the movie channel is good too. They pretty much give you 3 months free and $10.99 a month thereafter. I got an additional $10 credit for 12 months so it works out to .99 a month after the 3 month free period. (I got a bunch of other credits and free Showtime for 6 months which adds another channel in HD).

if you negotiate a deal with D* like I did you won't pay double. They are not going to charge me for the H20 or the 5 LNB although I will have to agree to 1 or 2 years commitment. I've been with them a little over 4 years and I'm pretty satisfied so another year or two commitment is a moot point for me.

They aren't firm on their May time frame. They just don't know for sure. There is no official time for the roll-out but some think it is tied to the Nielsen markets. We are market number 21. http://heh.pl/&2G5

That's the rub...I do want the TiVO to record network programming, but I don't want to pay for two separarte HD DVR's (one without and one with mpeg4, etc). Sounds like I just have to press D* until they give me the right deal. Commitment isn't a problem for me either because I'm a slave to the NFL ticket and they have a monopoly on that for a few years yet. I'll call them this week and see what I get. Is there a separate number for the retention dept?

I dont understand whats going on with ABC/KDNL 30. All week they were advertising the Rockets Vs. Knicks game to be broadcast in HD, which i was looking forward to. When i turned on the TV they had something else, informercials, and other dumb programming. Anyone know whats going on?

I called back 3 times until I was happy about my deal. I got the CSR's name and internal employee ID number in regards to the new DVR and AT9 Sat dish at no cost. I also called back to make sure the notes were there (a little paranoid).
I just said I wanted the HD DVR and didn't want to turn around and pay again in a few months. i posted all the credits and stuff I got somewhere in here. The final price they gave me is cancelled out with all the one time $ credits, waived fees, free programming, etc. The number I have is 800-263-0028. It may be the HD dept, not sure...but no menu to navigate and they can transfer you to cust. retention.

Take a look on hd.net, Discovery HD and the others to see if that appeals to you. I think it includes two ESPN channels too (have mine not showing in fave channels since I don't watch ESPN).

That's the rub...I do want the TiVO to record network programming, but I don't want to pay for two separarte HD DVR's (one without and one with mpeg4, etc). Sounds like I just have to press D* until they give me the right deal. Commitment isn't a problem for me either because I'm a slave to the NFL ticket and they have a monopoly on that for a few years yet. I'll call them this week and see what I get. Is there a separate number for the retention dept?

Just to clarify a bit, the sound delay issue isn't an ABC network issue, it's a problem with a particular piece of equipment at KDNL that decodes the 5.1 audio stream.

Jim (WRacer), the chief engineer at KDNL, reported here a week or so ago that the station is working with the equipment manufacturer to eliminate the problem. I have seen reports of other stations having similar 5.1 problems when they've made the shift. I think I recently read the same thing cropping up on one of the KC stations, as I monitor that discussion from time to time.

Also, the 5-second delay won't be an issue one way or the other in terms of the local issue, so long as the network correctly delays both sound and audio together.

Not sure why the NBA game isn't on KDNL, but the network promos run independently of the local station -- if there's a promo in the network feed to affilliates, there's no way for the local station to block that, even if they aren't planning on relaying the show from the network.

I'm a little surprised that KDNL isn't showing the NBA game, but I suspect there are two factors behind it -- one, apparently KDNL can bring in more revenue from selling off the airtime slot to an infomercial, and two, St. Louis is never going to get an NBA team because there's an obvious lack of interest from advertisers and corporate sponsors.

I have tried the DB2 antenna on my roof and the best I could get was about 60-high 70's as far as signal strength. That was on a clear day and shooting though a tree without leafs, I didn't install it because of a fear that in bad weather and in the summer my signal would be worse. My question is has anyone tried the Lacrosse antenna from Antennas direct? It is my last effort to get OTA HD. I live in Wildwood and in a valley.

So, when you called DTV, there were pretty firm in giving you a May date for locals in HD? I'm really not too excited about their current HD programming; in fact, the main reason I have Direct is for the NFL ticket. But if they were to expand their programming, I'm assuming that you will have to upgrade to mpeg 4 receivers and a new dish; I just want to time it right so I don't double my cost and buy two of everything within a year (the boss might have a conniption).

May was their current estimate for St. Louis. Of course, that was just an estimate. Yes, to get any new HD channels on D* from this point forward, you'll need a new dish and new mpeg4 receiver. They will likely support the existing mpeg2 channels for a long time (especially with how many HD Tivo's are out there), but any new stuff will be the mpeg4 variety.

That said, don't expect any new national HD networks until 2007. Their focus for 2006 is to get most of the country local HD channels (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX) so that cable will no longer have that edge over them anymore.

As I mentioned earlier, if you're able to get the local's OTA, that's the best way to do it (plus you get all of the channels, not just the big 4) and then you don't have to worry about replacing equipment down the road. Let them install the 5LNB dish, but you can still buy mpeg2 equipment (including a HD Tivo, very cheap) that will work for many years to come (but those receivers will not get any new HD channels that come along).

Check this thread for some ideas on what you might be able to get from D* when calling about upgrading to HD Tivo (most of the deals are to be had when calling retention directly):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=270045

OK, this is a good distance off-topic, but since it's Super Bowl Sunday, at least I have an excuse.

The following link is to the best baseball blog on the planet, Baseball Musings. In this entry, David Pinto reports that ESPN Entertainment is developing a reality/documentary show where cameras follow every waking moment of Barry Bonds during his quest to break Hank Aaron's home run record.

Leaving aside the fact that I can't think of any athlete or sports figure that I'd like to know less about than BB, Pinto hits it on the head when he worries that there might come a point when ESPN "goes MTV" on us, and live sports programming becomes a thing of the past.

But he's got a nice list of sports-related program ideas, and most of them are a hoot. My favorite: "My Name is Joey."

http://www.baseballmusings.com/

(Note: The trackback link failed, so I'm just posting the URL to the main page of Baseball Musings. You'll need to scroll down to "Will He Be Voted Off the Island?" to read this specific entry.

As I mentioned earlier, if you're able to get the local's OTA, that's the best way to do it (plus you get all of the channels, not just the big 4) and then you don't have to worry about replacing equipment down the road.
jd,
Do you know if there is still "talk" about any of the STL locals moving their DT signals back to VHF once the AT signals are stopped in 2009?
Granted, it's a few years away, but as you said, the PQ of OTA is superior. I'll be remaining with OTA for my local DT's, as I've been able to preview the new MPEG4 local DT's, on Dish, and unless they give up some bandwidth for compression, I don't see it improving anytime soon.

I have had HDTV through Charter for almost a year. I have always had problems receiving channels 781-KPLR-DT and channel 789 -KETC-DT. I do not watch either of these channels that much so I have not tried resolving it. Most of the time, they don't come in at all or when a picture does come up, it will quickly pixelates and freezes. I have just started trouble shooting the problem myself. I have been trying various combination with the cables including disconnecting the DVD/VCR which seemed to help. I have reconnected the DVD/VCR to a different port. For over a week, it was fine but Friday night, started having problems again. I have no confidence in having a Charter Technician come out to trouble shoot the situation.
Panasonic PT-50LC14
Sony DVD/VCR SLV-D550P
HD Cable box Motorola DCT5100

pregame in SD? Did KDNL forget to flip the switch, or is ABC doing the pregame in SD?

nm. they forgot to flip it. it's HD now....

I have had Charter Hi-def for nearly two years and have very frequent problems with NBC (Charter 785). I goes through cycles of nearly every hi-def progrm pixiliating and periodic freezes. Have had no problems (knock on wood) with CBS, HBO or Showtime. Charter service has been out several times and says it is either NBC or local KSDK signal-they say the problem is not at their end. At the same time, the sevice man claims they have no one else with hi-def making the complaints I am making.

Any one else having these issues?

All St. Louis channels, apart from KMOV, have made their final digital channel assignment declarations, and all are staying in the UHF band.

KMOV wasn't included in the final declarations list, and presumably they were given additional time to decide, because staying at channel 56 is not an option (the FCC is reclaiming everything from channels 51 and above).

I'll try to check around and see if there's been some final decision by KMOV and the FCC.

Is it on the air? I've been trying to get KDNL on 30.1 but no signal. Any others with problems?

RC & chuck,

I'm not a Charter subscriber, but I have seen experiences similar to yours described here and it usually comes down to a signal loss problem. This is sometimes traced to bad cabling, excessive splitting of the signal inside the premises or splitters with insufficient bandwidth.

You're probably going to need to call Charter to address this, but maybe this info will help you point the tech in the right direction.

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

A couple of years ago, we used to start off each month with a reposting of the local resource messages that are now buried on the first page of this discussion thread. I think there's some useful bits and pieces of information there -- and not JUST because I wrote most of it.

Unfortunately a lot of that information is overlooked because it's so far off the beaten path, especially now that the St. Louis discussion archive stretches back more than 2 years and 300+ pages.

To try to address this, I'm going to post an advisory/reminder note similar to this every couple of weeks. Ideally this will make this information more visible and accessible to more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

So, here's to filling in some of those information gaps...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995679&&#post2995679)

Using An Antenna to Receive Local HD Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995718&&#post2995718)

Common Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7041311&&#post7041311)

And finally, I want to remind everyone -- newcomers and old hands alike -- that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

bpape,

No problems here (Fairview Heights) with KDNL.

Hopefully this is just a momentary problem for you...

I know not alot of you guys have Charter here, but I have the Moxi w/ HD. I was going through some of the channels earlier and saw that ch 212 is ABC as well. I don't know if it's going to be used to broadcast the Superbowl in HD, but i thought I would see if anyone else has an opinion on this channel.

wolverine5767.

Maybe 212 is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation? ;)

Seriously, I'm highly doubtful that KDNL-DT is going to be added to the Charter line-up in time for Super Bowl kickoff, but maybe everyone will get a nice surprise.

If something like that is going to happen, I wonder how Charter plans to get the word out in such a short timeframe?

No doubt there would be plenty of feedback here, if that happens.

Is it on the air? I've been trying to get KDNL on 30.1 but no signal. Any others with problems?
loud and clear, and with correct audio sync!

OK, I found this on KMOV's final channel declaration.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=591927&pp=60

They've apparently picked a first choice (24) and a second (30), in the event that 24 cannot be used for some reason.

So, from that, it appears that ALL St. Louis digital channels will be remaining in the UHF band.

why wouldn't KDNL want to use 30 instead of 31?

I know not alot of you guys have Charter here, but I have the Moxi w/ HD. I was going through some of the channels earlier and saw that ch 212 is ABC as well. I don't know if it's going to be used to broadcast the Superbowl in HD, but i thought I would see if anyone else has an opinion on this channel.

wolverine5767.

There is no channel 212 on my non-Moxi HD Charter box so if you get ABC in HD on that channel it is a bonus for Moxi'ites. :)

no 212 on my Moxi either.

no 212 on my Moxi either.

Mine has no prgram listings and no channel logo. Do you have that channel unchecked in your settings?

wolverine5767

I wish you complainer realized how hard we've been working on the lip sync issue this week. ABC provides onlt a few seconds of video to test the lip sync on a test feed, so the only way we can sadjust it is when we're live. Then it's just a hit and miss issue of punching in numbers into the software.

I looks close now...more input appreciated!!! I can still make some adjustments.

We were late switchiing at the start of the ABC pregame show due to the primary receiver not locking up...went to the back up.

One other note...don't be upset at not getting Grey's Anatomy in HD. Due to our local post game show, it's on tape delay....no HD recorder yet.
Jim

Have addressed that already. Have a power booster installed, etc. over a year ago. The Chrter tech says signal strength is right on target.

It looks and sounds Great here Jim.....good job!

No channel 212 on my Moxi.

Mine has no prgram listings and no channel logo. Do you have that channel unchecked in your settings?

wolverine5767

There is no channel 212 even in my channel list, checked or unchecked.

Thanks, Jim -- your hard work and dedication to the HD (and surround sound) cause is much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to give us the update.

Of course, you don't need to encourage anyone here to provide you with feedback -- you're going to get it one way or the other. :D

I wish you complainer realized how hard we've been working on the lip sync issue this week. ABC provides onlt a few seconds of video to test the lip sync on a test feed, so the only way we can sadjust it is when we're live. Then it's just a hit and miss issue of punching in numbers into the software.

I looks close now...more input appreciated!!! I can still make some adjustments.

We were late switchiing at the start of the ABC pregame show due to the primary receiver not locking up...went to the back up.

One other note...don't be upset at not getting Grey's Anatomy in HD. Due to our local post game show, it's on tape delay....no HD recorder yet.
Jim
audio sync looks good to me! :D

I don't know why you guys are doing a local pre-pre game and post game show instead of finishing up with the network feed. I doubt many people care what the Post Dispatch reporter thought of the game, but i guess it's all about the local commercial revenue...

it appears that ALL St. Louis digital channels will be remaining in the UHF band.

That's great, great news for everyone involved.

Mo, with the HD DVR can you record from the OTA while watching the satellite feed? And if you want to input two satellite feeds, I'm assuming that you have to pay for two tuners to D*...is that correct?

Mo, with the HD DVR can you record from the OTA while watching the satellite feed? And if you want to input two satellite feeds, I'm assuming that you have to pay for two tuners to D*...is that correct?
The D* HD10-250 has 2 Sat and 2 OTA tuners. You can record any combination of 2 inputs at once. You do not pay extra for 2 tuners. It's billed as one box with Tivo service.

Getting channel 212 it is not HD but is alot louder than the channel 12 feed.

dwette already answered your question. I have one HD and one SD DVR. I could record 4 different programs at once if I wanted. :D Btw, the 4.99 charge is for one DVR or several.

WRacer OMG, ABC looks awesome. Since I am new to STL I still have not set up my receiver yet, but it looks terrific! Not many planes flying today so I'm good to go. Thanks for the heads up on Grey's Anatomy too.

Mo, with the HD DVR can you record from the OTA while watching the satellite feed? And if you want to input two satellite feeds, I'm assuming that you have to pay for two tuners to D*...is that correct?

Hey I've got my channel abc HDTV in Saint Peters looking great but all the anouncers sound really quiet! Not that it is a bad thing but :) good sometimes. The commercials that are in 4:3 sound fine but the onces that are high def sound quiet too... I've messed around with my settings but can't seem to find a combination that makes a difference... the background is just overpowering everything else. Any help would be awesome..

currently running through ATI HDTV and the sound is going through a X-Fi xtreme music to a DCS-610 (creatives converter) to get digital out to my Yamaha reciever.

The game is only 30minutes away so any help would be awesome! Thanks

I'm still having a problem with the audio not synching with the video on 30.1 (pregame show). I'm using an OTA antenna with digital tuner from Dish. Anyone else see this problem back?

OTA via D* HD DVR with TV speakers and it's off...

I'm still having a problem with the audio not synching with the video on 30.1 (pregame show). I'm using an OTA antenna with digital tuner from Dish. Anyone else see this problem back?


same as me - OTA silver sensor into dish 811 and my audio is about .2 seconds behind the video :( commericals are right on though.

I'm thinking it is something to do with my audio setup but I can't seem to find the bug... it is really weird b/c the voice that does ads at the begining of when the superbowl comes back on sounds great... so does the announcer talking about the band to the crowd but??? Stevie Wonder even sounds fine... kind of weird, just seems to be the announcers! Wow some people shouldn't sing live. Ouch. anyways any ideas again would be nice...

same as me - OTA silver sensor into dish 811 and my audio is about .2 seconds behind the video :( commericals are right on though.

My commercials seem to be off as well. I thought I saw a post earlier from someone at KDNL (or seemed to be) that said it was mostly fixed. I'm hoping they're still tweaking...

Im using my TV speakers so I doubt it's your audio setup.

WHOA! Sound just dropped to very low & back up.

I'm thinking it is something to do with my audio setup but I can't seem to find the bug... it is really weird b/c the voice that does ads at the begining of when the superbowl comes back on sounds great... so does the announcer talking about the band to the crowd but??? Stevie Wonder even sounds fine... kind of weird, just seems to be the announcers! Wow some people shouldn't sing live. Ouch. anyways any ideas again would be nice...

My commercials seem to be off as well. I thought I saw a post earlier from someone at KDNL (or seemed to be) that said it was mostly fixed. I'm hoping they're still tweaking...


yeah, someone is working on it as it is a lot closer of a matchup now for me. Not exactly on, but close enough that it's not distracting at all. Whew - I can watch the game in piece without noticing it at least when an announcer comes on the screen.

Called network...they have confirmed some lip sync issues. We have made no further adjustment here. They are also having problems with the sync on the SD feed. I see the sync on the commercials off here. I can't make any adjustments as long as it keeps changing from ABC.
Jim

Thanks for trying.

Called network...they have confirmed some lip sync issues. We have made no further adjustment here. They are also having problems with the sync on the SD feed. I see the sync on the commercials off here. I can't make any adjustments as long as it keeps changing from ABC.
Jim

Just think about all the HD big screens that were sold recently and now people are bitching about how bad it looks with their digital cable on channel 12!

channel 12 does look pretty bad. Kind of like looking at the old replays from 20 years ago....

The half time show sounds awful.

The half time show sounds awful.

True story.

Sounds like someone at the mixer is not going his/her job correctly, but at least it doesn't sound like a prerecorded lip sync, like previous years.

I've had no sync probs on SD, and the pic looks as good as any SD channel. The Stones, however, sucked.

Audio synch has been fine for me. I tweaked it a tad by adding a 70ms delay on my pre/pro making it spot on. I ignored the half time show and found something more interesting to do.

One other note...don't be upset at not getting Grey's Anatomy in HD. Due to our local post game show, it's on tape delay....no HD recorder yet.

I think I speak for all Grey's Anatomy fans when I say "screw you people". No HD on Charter. Now you're jerking over my OTA. Guess I'll have to skip watching it and download it with all of the commercials cut out with a higher quality Digital picture.

Right after the halftime show, there seemed to be no center channel for about 90 seconds.

I think I speak for all Grey's Anatomy fans when I say "screw you people". No HD on Charter. Now you're jerking over my OTA. Guess I'll have to skip watching it and download it with all of the commercials cut out with a higher quality Digital picture.

they would rather play high-dollar local commercials and get a bunch of money by broadcasting a local post game show that no one will watch than to play a network show where they will not make as much money (because of national commercial spots)

Cussing out the Engineering department for decisions made by the Programming department strikes me as less than productive.

Called network...they have confirmed some lip sync issues. We have made no further adjustment here. They are also having problems with the sync on the SD feed. I see the sync on the commercials off here. I can't make any adjustments as long as it keeps changing from ABC.
Jim


Jim thanks for all your hard work. You have kept all of us informed about your equipment problems. You have tired to get things straight and you have always been honest with us. More than I can say for other networks or their engineering departments.

Thanks, Jim. Really enjoyed the presentation. Good work!


Kevin Slaten ripped ABC in the first 3 mins of their local postgame show. Awesome.

Deals on HDTVs

For those who are looking for a nice set/price = see that Ultimate Electronics has lowered its price on the Sony 30XS955 to about $800. This set has had good reviews in the CRT Forum.

jim

IMO, I thought the SB presentation was excellent. Other than that slight audio issue, which we all know Jim has been working very hard to correct....it even appeared at the beginning of the game, when Madden and Michaels were on-screen, it improved from just before the coin-toss, to just afterwards. I think Jim posted something about having to do the corrections live.

I watched the entire game, from front to back, including all the commercials and halftime. I didn't see a single instance of any audio or video dropouts. Not even a single pixelation.

I had 20 people over. 2 families are now in the market for HD, one is going to drop cable and move to satellite, and one friend will be calling Doug for a calibration.

Would the member here who works at UE/MRM please send me a PM, one of the family's lives nearby and I'd like to send them your way.

Doug,
Thanks for the response. I figured it might be signal loss problem. Had this problem about 2 years ago with regular cable and internet. Took Charter over a month to fix it and only after several neighbors on the street elevated the problem to Charter management. This is when I lost confidence in their technicians. Problem ended up being a crack in the trunk line.
Would a signal amplifier help with HD signals? Daughter had poor cable signal in campus apartment in Milwaukee. Bought an amplifier from Radio Shack and it cleared up all of her channels.

A couple of days ago, I noticed that Charter had also assigned KDNL to Digital channel 212 in addition to 12. Checked during Super Bowl, it was not HD. Could not tell the difference between 12 and 212.

kdg454:

It's Tom Grooms that works at UE/MRM.

Best,

RC,

I think because of the higher bandwidth required, that HD is more susceptible to cable quality or excessive splitting. An amplifier might help, but I think you're really best off trying to get the problem fixed, rather than patched over.

But I understand your reservations about Charter, particularly if you have to take time off of work to wait for them to show up and then the tech who arrives accomplishes little or nothing.

Things may have changed at Charter, but early on the Pipeline support staff were handling HD products and they seemed more capable than the normal group. It might be worth specifically asking for HD product support, and then once you're connected to that group, to ask for a supervisor. Explain the problem/frustrations that you had previously with a basic issue (faulty trunk line) not being diagnosed properly until multiple calls were made and that you're not prepared to go through that ordeal again. I would hope that they could verify that by looking at your past call record.

I had a similar problem with Pipeline a year or so ago, where it almost always dropped out for a couple of hours after heavy rain. One of the supervisors eventually came out and did a more thorough inspection of the cabling inside and out. Since then, I've had few of these types of problems (though Pipeline overall seems to go out in my area more often than other localities).

If you don't get the attention you think you should, tell Charter you won't be paying for any fees (hardware or content) associated with HD until the problem is fixed to your satisfaction.

A few comments about the Super Bowl presentation...

I'm not a big football fan, so the thing that most stood out for me was the commercials that made aggressive use of the surround sound capabilities. I didn't take notes, but there were a couple of sequences that really stood out, one with helicopters panning from the rear to the front. That sort of thing is great for grabbing your attention, which is what advertising has to do, especially in a DVR world.

I think it's a good sign that so many of the commercials were in HD and that advertisers were thinking not just about visual impact potential, but also the audio side. And that's coming from someone who's primarily a "video guy."

I also thought it was interesting to see that ABC did its own program promotions in HD. I've been wondering for a while why this hasn't been happening as a rule on the HD feed during prime time. Maybe the Super Bowl is the starting point for doing that going forward. It certainly never has made sense to me to promote upcoming HD programs by showing an SD promo on the HD channel. It seems like the HD viewing audience has gotten to the point where it's large enough that it should be worth the extra effort to do this. We'll see...

Jim, again I want to thank you for all your hard work in making the KDNL presentation as good as it can be. Hopefully this stuff is going to get more routine soon, so that next year you can be sitting at home enjoying the game, rather than juggling all the techno-variables...

I think I speak for all Grey's Anatomy fans when I say "screw you people".I think not.

I think I speak for all Grey's Anatomy fans when I say "screw you people". No HD on Charter. Now you're jerking over my OTA. Guess I'll have to skip watching it and download it with all of the commercials cut out with a higher quality Digital picture.


LOL

Looked beautiful in HD on D* :D

Scott

LOL

Looked beautiful in HD on D* :D

Scott

Don't you mean OTA? Or are you getting HD-LIL's before they're available? ;)

I just wanted to chime in on some serious audio problems ABC had during the SuperBowl. I was watching OTA.
WRacer noted there were lip-sync issues from the network feed. One would think that we have been doing this long enough to get it right, at least at the network level. I understand we have had a local issue and that it is being addressed.
Also, there were a couple of digital pops and cracks in the sound after half-time that would make your heart stop with the volume at a moderate level. With one of them I was almost sure I lost a rear surround speaker.
Fastmans

I think not.

Me neither.

Jim - great job on getting the 5.1 implemented and synched!

The half time show sounds awful.

Ditto. Mick's mike sounded like it was bought at the Dollar store. Guitar volumes changed on the fly. All in all, a very amateur audio mix. Please don't blame the local station.

Don't you mean OTA? Or are you getting HD-LIL's before they're available? ;)

He gets the Distant Net Feeds.

I am pretty confident that airing the local yocals after SB was not as successful as airing a popular show like Grey's Anatomy would have been. Mama wasn't happy at my house. Even Kevin Slaten appeared to acknowledge how pointless the whole exercise was. The programming people at KDNL are clueless. How many of us wanted local analysis of a game played by 2 NON St. Louis teams? Jim slap someone over there please.

Slightly off topic, but What the hell does KWMU mean when they say "broadcasting in High Definition from the University of MO St Louis"? Do they have a very underpowered Stern-like tv show that I don't know about, or are they just trying to userp(sp?) a hot term?
Dug

Kudos, to KDNL for a great presentation. I had perfect lip sync on D*. I did notice one time where the AT&T commercial was not in HD when the first time it aired it was in HD, and ther e was a moment when the game came back on before it switched to HD again. All in all it was a beautiful presentation. Thanks to Jim for all his hard work!

Scott

He gets the Distant Net Feeds.

Yeah, what he said.

Scott

Slightly off topic, but What the hell does KWMU mean when they say "broadcasting in High Definition from the University of MO St Louis"? Do they have a very underpowered Stern-like tv show that I don't know about, or are they just trying to userp(sp?) a hot term?
Dug

Any chance they were talking about HD radio?

Slightly off topic, but What the hell does KWMU mean when they say "broadcasting in High Definition from the University of MO St Louis"? Do they have a very underpowered Stern-like tv show that I don't know about, or are they just trying to userp(sp?) a hot term?
Dug

MB - I've heard that before myself and I assume they took the plunge into HD radio. It's a higher resolution digital audio format that we'll probably hear more about in the next year or so. It's distinct from satellite subscription radio like Sirius or XM; a terrestrial broadcaster just is shooting out a digital bitstream within their current frequency.

Squirrel

Ditto on the Super Bowl comments (great job Jim), maybe it was just me but most of the time the cuts between SD and HD were seemless, also interesting I didn't see any of the Arbor day spots, maybe that was because ABC had the spots filled, or maybe local stuff is being inserted now (whatever pays the bills for the new decoders is fine by me).

Bet the tension is thick in the production news rooms over at KSDK this morning :D

MB - I've heard that before myself and I assume they took the plunge into HD radio. -Squirrel

I can tell you that one of the local network affiliates (NBC, I believe) does a video shoot at the Mizzou games. People have wondered why those games aren't available here. The only thing we get to air is the Mizzou replay show, and they take audio from the radio. Kinda cool idea, but it doesn't air until 4 days after the game.

I called their press rep, and he mentioned to me that the Big 12 dictates all the TV games. We had proposed actually rolling out a truck to shoot them, but everything is tied in with the conference. They don't want to step on the toes of another Big 12 game that may be airing.

So, I assume it isn't anything video-related.

-Hanjke

MB - I've heard that before myself and I assume they took the plunge into HD radio. It's a higher resolution digital audio format that we'll probably hear more about in the next year or so. It's distinct from satellite subscription radio like Sirius or XM; a terrestrial broadcaster just is shooting out a digital bitstream within their current frequency.

Squirrel
Thanks,
I'd never heard of that before, I guess I just don't care that much about radio fidelity.
dug

Well it sounds like my problem is a little different and I'm sure that is b/c I'm running different hardware in a HTPC. If anyone else runs an X-Fi maybe you can share settings you were running for the Superbowl. It was like my center channel was off or something but the commercials and any non HD material sounded great. It was very selective and almost like it was only excepting a certain way the voice was recorded... Music was crisp and had a lot of volume but a majority of the announcers were so quiet I couldn't hear them. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the DTS-610 that is doing digital conversion from the X-Fi to my Yamaha 6.1 setup. I need to read a little more I guess and see what I had set up incorrectly b/c my Revolution 7.1 from m-audio didn't have any problems but it went from the sound card directly to the recever via a digital out. It is just weird all other sound was perfect except the HD material and even then it wasn't all the HD just some of it.

Well it sounds like my problem is a little different and I'm sure that is b/c I'm running different hardware in a HTPC. If anyone else runs an X-Fi maybe you can share settings you were running for the Superbowl. It was like my center channel was off or something but the commercials and any non HD material sounded great. It was very selective and almost like it was only excepting a certain way the voice was recorded... Music was crisp and had a lot of volume but a majority of the announcers were so quiet I couldn't hear them. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the DTS-610 that is doing digital conversion from the X-Fi to my Yamaha 6.1 setup. I need to read a little more I guess and see what I had set up incorrectly b/c my Revolution 7.1 from m-audio didn't have any problems but it went from the sound card directly to the receiver via a digital out. It is just weird all other sound was perfect except the HD material and even then it wasn't all the HD just some of it.
FWIT, during the SB, I did notice the surrounds were at a higher-than-normal volume, and the center was at a lower-than-normal volume.

I do not have HTPC, or any real sophisticated equipment, so I'm just going by what I heard.

I ended up setting my sound system to the setting I use for what I call, "volume-up/volume-down" movies. Where, the sound effects are so loud, the volume has to be decreased, but the speaking parts are then so soft, the volume has to be increased to hear the dialog.

Probably has nothing to do with your issue, but it is something I noticed during the broadcast.

Slightly off topic, but What the hell does KWMU mean when they say "broadcasting in High Definition from the University of MO St Louis"? Do they have a very underpowered Stern-like tv show that I don't know about, or are they just trying to userp(sp?) a hot term?
Dug

They're running Ibiquity (http://www.ibiquity.com/) HD radio.
Interesting concept, but I still have a couple AM stereo radios in the junk drawer.

T-Minus 3 hrs 50 minutes to kSDk's HD newscast.

In other news, the Super Bowl, look great. Jim, kudos on a job well done. I actually found the pre-game show (didn't watch post-game) pretty entertaining, even though they seemed hard pressed to fill 1.5 hours for the Superbowl. Those who wanted to see Basketball had to watch it on KUMO-LP, of which no DT is available.

Some sync issues, but it was great. Bettis got what he waited a long time to get. :)

They're running Ibiquity (http://www.ibiquity.com/) HD radio.
Interesting concept, but I still have a couple AM stereo radios in the junk drawer.

I don't think HD radio is going away. It's going to be a transition just like tv.

HD radio seems to me to be an act of complete and utter desperation.

Terrestrial radio has tilted way too far toward advertisers, to the point where most of it is just pointless as a listener. Satellite radio probably never gets as big, in market share terms, as cable/satellite TV, but it's going to make OTA radio a much smaller industry 10 years from now.

HD radio is not going to do much, if anything, to turn that tide.

I don't think HD radio is going away. It's going to be a transition just like tv.

OH GREAT, now I have to buy a new radio also. :)

HD radio seems to me to be an act of complete and utter desperation.

Terrestrial radio has tilted way too far toward advertisers, to the point where most of it is just pointless as a listener. Satellite radio probably never gets as big, in market share terms, as cable/satellite TV, but it's going to make OTA radio a much smaller industry 10 years from now.

HD radio is not going to do much, if anything, to turn that tide.


There are zero commercials on KWMU. I haven't listened to commercial radio in over 8 years. And not because of the commercials, because of the awful music and banal DJ's. I don't really understand Sat radio myself. If I want uninterrupted music, I'll play cds and/or iPod, etc, and not pay a monthly fee.

There are zero commercials on KWMU. I haven't listened to commercial radio in over 8 years. And not because of the commercials, because of the awful music and banal DJ's. I don't really understand Sat radio myself. If I want uninterrupted music, I'll play cds and/or iPod, etc, and not pay a monthly fee.
For me, Sat radio provides a means of listening to uninterrupted new music. I enjoy listening to newly released pop, punk-rock, and country music that I don't yet have, or for a means of deciding whether I should buy, for my CD changers and iPods.

Here we go...

Yeah, what he said.

Scott

Lucky guy. How'd you swing that from O'Fallon?

KSDK in HD. Looks like upconverted and scaled to 16:9 aspect.

The remote cameras are upconverted. The studio is HD but the red is highly annoying.

Interesting thing is they are putting the email addresses of the anchors under there names.


Why is everything so RED????

Did anyone listen to JC on the radio? He was on KSDK this morning saying they were going to have some of the engineers on the radio show to take calls. I was not available to grill them or hear the show. Just wondering if anyone was.

First thoughts...the studio shots look pretty good IMHO, but that background is TOO busy.

diddo the red though..

The news in HD looks good to me. As for the red I am guessing that they think that would be appealing to most people. I am showing 5.1 sound but not getting it. Overall I think it looks good. KSDK has done a good job.

Sent email to lose the annoying and highly distracting red bars. Ugh!
programming@ksdk.com
Studio way too busy and too red, but it looked good to see it in HD.

The KSDK studio shots look very good, and frankly the remote shots look better than I would have expected. But they're clearly not HD, with visible grain and quite a lot of edge enhancement.

One thing I found especially puzzling -- no 16x9 on the weather graphics. Seems like that would have been a given.

On the other hand, I thought the graphics for the mall crime story, while simple, looked really good.

User mailbox exceeds allowed size: programming@ksdk.com

KSDK's firsrt HD newscast came off pretty good IMO. 1st thing I noticed also was all the red; Even the faces had red tint to them, and all the red background and graphics contributed even more to the effect.
The weather screen was cropped behind Cindy, however that may be the design they want.
For a first show, not bad.

Dave

Overall, I thought it was quite good, and agree, the background/studio is way to busy for my liking.

I'm wondering what Mike, Karen, Cindy and the rest are going to think, when they get back home, play it back, and see they actually look their age for the first time in a while.

Ditto on the red and the anchor's red tint. I also thought the crime stats look real good. And then I thought the weather screens looked really bad...the 5-day forecast looked to be out of focus.

Even my wife commented on the red bars :D

Another thing I noticed with the new set, and this may be something to do with having to broadcast in 2 aspect ratios, that the HD camera angles seemed "off" or maybe too pulled back, too much screen real estate showing around the anchors. You guys agree?

That being said, I'm realizing how big an undertaking it must be to build the new studio and get all the tech stuff ready while also redesigning graphics and everything else that went into this, including talent considerations.

I think the people responsible at KSDK deserve a round of applause for pulling this off so well for a first show.

Squirrel

One of their blogs covers a lot of the set building.
http://heh.pl/&2Gw

Another thing I noticed with the new set, and this may be something to do with having to broadcast in 2 aspect ratios, that the HD camera angles seemed "off" or maybe too pulled back, too much screen real estate showing around the anchors. You guys agree?

That being said, I'm realizing how big an undertaking it must be to build the new studio and get all the tech stuff ready while also redesigning graphics and everything else that went into this, including talent considerations.

I think the people responsible at KSDK deserve a round of applause for pulling this off so well for a first show.

Squirrel

When I took presentation training at work, they told us to use red sparingly, it has a tendency to agitate the audience. This audience is clearly agitated!

On the weather graphics, I imagine the software they use only produces 4:3 images on a computer. Probably need to work with the software company to generate 16:9.

Definitely a good start, although they had some rough edges. Obviously, they haven't upgraded their weather graphics yet. May have something to do iwth the newer motion weather system (zoom ins and outs on areas in 3D). I'd wager they spent heavy on that and couldn't bring themselves to scrap it for HD. None of their remote stuff is going to be HD for a while; I'm sure their studio conversion cost a small fortune. The most glaring problem for me was the sports flat screen; color temp was WAY off - far too blue. I'm surprised that slipped through. And the wider aspect, and the angles they take with the new studio cameras, is definitely making it harder for talent to move off camera unobserved - nothing worse than tiptoeing off and seeing the red tally light come on in your face.

The quality of image from the studio cameras was quite good. I thought the talent came off very well. To me, they looked better than they used to on the SD cameras. I think you can really credit the lighting job they did for that.

I think this is one of many slow but necessary steps that we have to move through to solidify the transition to HD. KSDK's change makes it more likely that others will do the same. Competition is always a good thing. I'm just hoping that competition is what will make this disturbing move to HDLite go away eventually.

The most glaring problem for me was the sports flat screen; color temp was WAY off - far too blue. I'm surprised that slipped through. Joe, I agree. I'm doubtful that the on-set monitors were calibrated. To get the appearance of proper color temperature for at-home viewers, on-set monitors need to be calibrated to 3200K, instead of the normal 6500K (actually D6500).

That means that if the monitors were actually calibrated for 6500K (also doubtful), they would be too blue, and if they weren't calibrated at all, they would be wildly blue, assuming they came out of the box at the typical 8,000-10,000K.

BTW, I didn't think the use of red was overdone, at least not in comparison to ESPN's sets, where I think this has been an issue. I didn't see the anchors' flesh tones as being overly red. I suspect that some of this may be due to the "red push" that many TVs/monitors have at factory settings, or it may be that color/tint is not correct. I agree that the background of the set was distracting.

Lucky guy. How'd you swing that from O'Fallon?

I thought all HD subs got ABC 86 and FOX 88 east coast feeds. If not, maybe I am grandfathered in since I've had east/west feeds since '94. I used to get east/west of all HD channels, but they shut off CBS and NBC. Wish I had more info for you.

Scott

I thought the KSDK HD newscast was great. I love the new set. The red I especially like, and I agree with Doug that red was not overdone. If you guys are seeing red faces, you need to have doug calibrate your sets. I noticed no red faces. The plasma used during the sports segment did look very green to me, but I knew that was not my TV, so I didn't worry about it. They do need to upgrade the graphics eventually. All in all I thought they did a great job. My wife thinks I'm nuts because I made her watch the historic event.

Scott

Too bad its the worst news team in the city.

If you guys are seeing red faces, you need to have doug calibrate your sets. I noticed no red faces.While I realize that I should get a professional calibration, I still have to say that the red tint I was seeing on the newscaster's faces is not something I see on any other HD broadcast. Maybe I was just drawn to the red sidebars (which I hate) and I just thought I was seeing red on their faces.

As for the monitor used during the sportscast, yeah, I noticed the color was way off. But I thought is was more blue than green.

I think they did a good job. I definately did not like the background. Also, they all had on matching clothes, purple.

Did anyone else notice the blond lady (sorry I don't know the names of all them) that was sneaking off the side of the set. And also that she was sitting on a phone book.

I might have missed it in the threads here, but did anyone notice CSI NY not having the voice channel turned on the other night.....

Did anyone else notice the blond lady (sorry I don't know the names of all them) that was sneaking off the side of the set. And also that she was sitting on a phone book.

Didn't notice the phone book, but I did notice Lisa Ziegman (sp?) trying to sneak off the set at one point. It'll probably take a while until they're used to the wider set.

I thought the KSDK HD newscast was great. I love the new set. The red I especially like, and I agree with Doug that red was not overdone. If you guys are seeing red faces, you need to have doug calibrate your sets. I noticed no red faces. The plasma used during the sports segment did look very green to me, but I knew that was not my TV, so I didn't worry about it. They do need to upgrade the graphics eventually. All in all I thought they did a great job. My wife thinks I'm nuts because I made her watch the historic event.

Scott

Maybe the red "push" for the station is Cardinal red. Seriously, I liked the look of the newscast, although I agree the set is busy. I'll have to look at it again, but I think the "monitors" in the background are not real. I don't remember seeing one of them show a moving image during the newscast. I think it's eye candy ala Letterman.

Kurt,

If you were able to record the news broadcast, go back and have another look at it, or check it out again tonight.

Most of the anchor shots were without red sidebars -- I think the only point where they were used was during the weather segment due to the 4:3 graphics limitations. If you can. drape something (ideally black or gray) over the red sidebars and see if you're still seeing red in the weather reporter's face. It is possible that the large blocks of red are causing you to see red elsewhere in the picture where it doesn't actually exist.

The only other explanation I can come up with for comments about red in the anchor faces is that maybe you'd just turned on your TV and it wasn't properly warmed up. With CRT sets, it can take up to an hour for colors to fully stabilize, and even lamp-based displays can require 30 minutes or more.

I'll still watch channel 4's local news.

But, kudos to KSDK for doing it. Someone had to take the plunge, and now that one has, I'll bet FOX2 is the next in line.

Joe, I was thinking the same thing about the monitors. I doubt they are real.

Although KSDK obviously spent a lot of money on the set (and apparently spent it well), that number of broadcast monitors would make the Gannett CFO turn (real-life) bright red.

Did anyone else notice the blond lady (sorry I don't know the names of all them) that was sneaking off the side of the set. And also that she was sitting on a phone book.

.....

It was kinda of funny because she stopped half-way as if OOPS, I'm still on, should I stop or go back what should I do?
Overall nice first production I did not expect the world, now if only 4 & 2 will catch up because I actually watch those stations for my local news.

This is probably an overly "self-absorbed" post on my part, but I just wanted to note that for now I'm going to refrain from referring to Channel 5 as "kSDk."

KSDK has obviously stepped up to the plate and made a very professional effort to present their news programs in HD. While I'm completely ambivalent about TV local news (actually, I go out of my way to avoid it, regardless of the station or the city), the way KSDK pulled this off at least indicates they're serious about doing HD right going forward. Everyone involved deserves credit for what they accomplished last night.

I've also heard through unofficial channels that station management recognizes that it has done a poor job of handling network HD broadcasts in the past, particularly as it related to network switch-flipping, and that it's determined to do better from here.

So, I'm personally wiping the slate clean and judging KSDK on its future actions, rather than the flubs of the past.

But I'll be the first to admit, I do have a LONG memory and I haven't forgotten how to use the SHIFT key. :)

Joe, I agree. I'm doubtful that the on-set monitors were calibrated. To get the appearance of proper color temperature for at-home viewers, on-set monitors need to be calibrated to 3200K, instead of the normal 6500K (actually D6500).

That means that if the monitors were actually calibrated for 6500K (also doubtful), they would be too blue, and if they weren't calibrated at all, they would be wildly blue, assuming they came out of the box at the typical 8,000-10,000K.

BTW, I didn't think the use of red was overdone, at least not in comparison to ESPN's sets, where I think this has been an issue. I didn't see the anchors' flesh tones as being overly red. I suspect that some of this may be due to the "red push" that many TVs/monitors have at factory settings, or it may be that color/tint is not correct. I agree that the background of the set was distracting.

The monitor looked like it was right out of the box to me. They definitely need it calibrated. Although the anchors are not likely to have a clue, the engineers should know better.

Here's a quick primer for those who don't know what color temperature refers to:

The lower the color temperature, the redder the image. The higher the color temperature, the bluer the image. Standard television studio lighting uses a color temperature of 3200 degrees (very red). Outdoor light varies, but is about 6500 degrees (blue). A properly calibrated set for use in the home (adjusted by Doug) should register as close to 6500 as he can get it. Typical out of the box color temperatures for televisions sometimes exceed 10,000 (wildly blue). That's what the sports monitor looked like to me. Doug says the color temp should be 3200 on the sports monitor, because it needs to match the color temp of the studio lighting used on the set.

I'd say give them a call and offer to calibrate their set for them, but, that's right, they don't respond to messages. Some engineer needs to be called into the office today.

Just finished reading your last post, Doug, and I agree - this was a VERY good sign, and I'm willing to give KSDK the benefit of the doubt based on this move. It's very positive.

I enjoyed the broadcast last night, I'm not much of a local news watcher, but if I'm going to watch it, I plan on watching KSDK.

though I will add I was thoroughly disappointed with NBC/KSDK's bungling of the Blues game on Saturday. are all of their HD cameras in Torino or something?

I enjoyed the broadcast last night, I'm not much of a local news watcher, but if I'm going to watch it, I plan on watching KSDK.

though I will add I was thoroughly disappointed with NBC/KSDK's bungling of the Blues game on Saturday. are all of their HD cameras in Torino or something?


I thought the Blues game looked FANTASTIC! Oh wait, I was there, 2nd row off the ice ......

heh, sorry.

KSDK News:
Could all the wide shots not have anything to do with the HD? Just a desire to show off the (new) entire set? Hopefully they will go back to tighter shots, it will help the set look less busy too.

Couple things.

Great job ABC on the Super Bowl. The 30+ people at out house enjoyed the experience and encouraged more than one to make the HD move. My sub got more of a workout than I expected on some of those promos and commercials!

No, KWMU does not run “commercials”, but they do have underwriting announcements, same thing in my book.

Way to go KSDK! Nice job on the first night and morning. Background a little busy, but they will dial it in. Funny that on the same night KSDK kicks local HD news off, FOX has several freezes and audio drop outs during 24.

Can someone explain to a newbie what you mean by "HD subs"?

BTW, I called D* yesterday about upgrading to HD, and they offered me the following:
1) Instant rebate on the HD DVR ($399)
2) No fee for installation of DVR
3) No fee for installation of OTA
4) 3 mo free HD package and free Showtime

I tried to get them to guarantee a free mpeg 4 receiver and 5 LNB dish, but they wouldn't budge. I'll try back in a couple of days. One question I had, if they multiplex my OTA and satellite signal, does that mean there is only one cable going into my DVR? Does that degrade the quality at all?

KSDK News:
Could all the wide shots not have anything to do with the HD? Just a desire to show off the (new) entire set? Hopefully they will go back to tighter shots, it will help the set look less busy too.

Karen Foss upclose and personal?? :eek:

I was surprised how kind HD was to her.

rs,

You should be able to do better than $399 on the DVR -- existing customers have been able to land the HD-TiVo for $199 after rebates, and I have heard of even less paid with other rebates.

I'm not sure about how to value their OTA antenna installation -- I think this largely comes down to the antenna the local installer provides and the ability of the installer who does the work. Worst case, you get your money's worth ($0), but ideally you want to do this once and have it be done correctly.

A while back, DirecTV was offering a four-room SD installation for $0 in equipment and installation. If that offer is still available, I'd go for that, and then seek the HD/TiVo upgrade at the existing customer price of $199. One of my customers did exactly that this summer, but I have no idea if that flies today.

You're not likely to get any sort of guarantees on the MPEG-4 upgrade. Of course, it can't hurt to try, but I think the chances are very small that you'll get that agreed upfront.

The 30+ people at out house enjoyed the experience and encouraged more than one to make the HD move. My sub got more of a workout than I expected on some of those promos and commercials!wally,

You should check in with the Guinness Book or World Records. An HDTV, a surround sound sytem and 30 people crammed in the out house -- well, if that's not a record, it should be.

But are you sure all the rumbling came from the sub?

Sorry to pick on the typo, but it's either that or work on my tax returns... ;)

Can someone explain to a newbie what you mean by "HD subs"?




High Definition Package Subscribers :)

rs,

You should be able to do better than $399 on the DVR -- existing customers have been able to land the HD-TiVo for $199 after rebates, and I have heard of even less paid with other rebates.

I'm not sure about how to value their OTA antenna installation -- I think this largely comes down to the antenna the local installer provides and the ability of the installer who does the work. Worst case, you get your money's worth ($0), but ideally you want to do this once and have it be done correctly.

A while back, DirecTV was offering a four-room SD installation for $0 in equipment and installation. If that offer is still available, I'd go for that, and then seek the HD/TiVo upgrade at the existing customer price of $199. One of my customers did exactly that this summer, but I have no idea if that flies today.

You're not likely to get any sort of guarantees on the MPEG-4 upgrade. Of course, it can't hurt to try, but I think the chances are very small that you'll get that agreed upfront.


Thanks, Doug. I figured if they at least install the OTA and run the wire, I can have someone else who is better trained come in and fix everything. What about mulitplexing the signals...is that a bad idea for quality and ability to record two different programs?

I already have a four SD system...I guess I should try to push them for a better price on the DVR.

Kurt,

If you were able to record the news broadcast, go back and have another look at it, or check it out again tonight.

Most of the anchor shots were without red sidebars -- I think the only point where they were used was during the weather segment due to the 4:3 graphics limitations. If you can. drape something (ideally black or gray) over the red sidebars and see if you're still seeing red in the weather reporter's face. It is possible that the large blocks of red are causing you to see red elsewhere in the picture where it doesn't actually exist.

The only other explanation I can come up with for comments about red in the anchor faces is that maybe you'd just turned on your TV and it wasn't properly warmed up. With CRT sets, it can take up to an hour for colors to fully stabilize, and even lamp-based displays can require 30 minutes or more.

Sorry, no HD recording for me, I'm DVR-less. I know the TV was warmed up because I watched another great episode of '24'. I know it's not that red, but I still think their faces were redder (?) than any other HD show on any station. Maybe subconsiously, I just know KSDK had to screw something up during the broadcast, and that's all I could "find".

I'll be watching again, since KSDK is my prefered news broadcast.

rs,

Yes, as an existing subscriber, you ought to be able to land the $199 price on the TiVo without going through multiple install gymnastics.

I suggest that you call and ask to be connected to the Retention Desk. That's likely to ensure you get the best deals currently available.

With CRT sets, it can take up to an hour for colors to fully stabilize, and even lamp-based displays can require 30 minutes or more.
Doug,
Would my Sony RPTV's (KP-57HW40) be of the type that would experience this color stabilization warm-up period?

relax...you get 2 extra days this year, it falling on a saturday :)

KSDK looked great, although Mike Bush looked red to me. I got an older set, that was pressed into HD service. (Sears LXI CRT). It was on for several hours before. Any tips on calibrating it, Doug?

The noon newscast (on right now) is using more elements than last night. They seem to be correcting for the bar issues during the weather reports.

Well what the heck are KPLR, KMOV, and KTVI waiting for.

On the PSIP front: KTVI turned it on, and then it went off again. KSDK (busy with the HD upgrade).

Off Topic: I liked the deep-throat announcer better on KSDK.

Thanks for the blog link!

Looking at the Direct TV website, I think they've done away with the $199 deal...I did talk to the retention desk yesterday, and $399 was all they would offer me..I'll try wheedling them again.

Anyone with ideas about the pros/cons of multiplexing the OTA and satellite signals?

wally,

You should check in with the Guinness Book or World Records. An HDTV, a surround sound sytem and 30 people crammed in the out house -- well, if that's not a record, it should be.

But are you sure all the rumbling came from the sub?

Sorry to pick on the typo, but it's either that or work on my tax returns... ;)

It was the chili cheese dip, honest! :o

Doug,
Would my Sony RPTV's (KP-57HW40) be of the type that would experience this color stabilization warm-up period?

relax...you get 2 extra days this year, it falling on a saturday :)Yes, in my experience, a CRT set, particularly a RPTV set where there are three separate CRTs, it takes about an hour for it to reach stability.

I always ask my customers to turn on their sets an hour before I arrive for the calibration appointment, so I can't say what's typical during warm-up, but with my own RPTV, it is significantly shifted toward red during the first 20 minutes or so. This is most obvious when the image should be black but the screen has a subtle red glow. But your mileage may differ...

I'm lost on the reference to the "two extra days."

rs,

Avoid the diplexing of the sat and OTA signals.

From what I've seen online, this is apparently going to be verboten once the MPEG-4 architecture is in place.

I'm lost on the reference to the "two extra days."


I think he is talkin about your taxes Doug.

Anyone with ideas about the pros/cons of multiplexing the OTA and satellite signals?

You will not be able to combine/diplex antenna and sat signals once the mpeg 4 thing is in place. However, buy that time you will be able to get the locals in HD via Sat and will not really need an antenna therefore no need to diplex.

Scott

Great on the "extra" days -- I'll probably need them...

Doug, wouldn't you agree even when local HD becomes available over the satellite feed, it will always be advantageous to have OTA too?

Doug, wouldn't you agree even when local HD becomes available over the satellite feed, it will always be advantageous to have OTA too?


I'm not Doug, but yes I will agree that there have been times where I have had to use OTA due to problems with Sat receiver not working or the occational rain fade/signal loss. I will probably have to run some more coax if I upgrade to mpeg 4 later, so I can have OTA too.

Scott

Doug, wouldn't you agree even when local HD becomes available over the satellite feed, it will always be advantageous to have OTA too?Yes, absolutely.

I recommend that OTA HD should be your first choice for receipt of local digital/HD stations. Apart from subchannel clutter, there's no exposure to excess compression. In other words, OTA HD is as good as it gets.

Having the OTA channels via the dish is good, but should be considered a fallback.

DirecTV and DISH are adding local digital/HD channels in order that they can compete with cable on an equal footing. Even if/when the satellite (or cable) providers begin ratcheting up the compression and reducing picture quality on these local HD feeds, that will be a non-issue for the largest part of their customer base.

But for those who really care about picture quality, having OTA is a great hedge against uncontrolled PQ reduction.

Let me know when Mike Bush is on vacation and I'll check it out because with him as a newsreader the show is unwatchable. When he used to do sports whatever the latest highlight catchphrase was on ESPN ended up on his lips about a week later. IMO, he comes across as completely insincere. Plus that Cindy weather gal sounds so patronizing while giving the weather. it is like we are all 3 years old and she is our mom. HD can not fix these issues. The rare few times I do watch local news Fox is my choice in STL.

Cause Tim Ezell is tehman!

Hi,

Just joined this board. Don't know if you all can help me, but I am Charter Cable customer with a Moxi DVR Box so I can get HDTV. Have really fallen in love with the improved picture and sound. Have had the DVR service since August. In November, the box just burned out, went black on the display. Ever since then, the boxes we have had to replace it ( up to 3 now) have had a problem with spontaneous resetting. The last 2 seem better however, they still reset when I try to watch a recorded program.

Anyone else experience this problem? Still working with Charter on it., but just looking other sources of information in case its something other than the box causing it.

Sorry to move off your topics and thanks in advance for any advice you might have.

Let me know when Mike Bush is on vacation and I'll check it out because with him as a newsreader the show is unwatchable.I'm not going to pick on Mike Bush, but I LOVE your use of the term "newsreader."

I first came across this when I lived in London, and decided then it should be a "truth-in-labeling" precedent for ALL television news.

Hey Kathy,

Welcome to the board. There's no need to apologize for going off-topic -- your question is entirely on-topic, as we try to cover and address anything to do with HDTV and home theater, with a local angle. And we often go well outside that perimeter.

Unfortunately I'm not a Charter cable subscriber, so I can't shed any light on your problem, but hopefully someone else here will be able to offer some ideas.

Let me know when Mike Bush is on vacation and I'll check it out because with him as a newsreader the show is unwatchable. When he used to do sports whatever the latest highlight catchphrase was on ESPN ended up on his lips about a week later. IMO, he comes across as completely insincere.

Yup. Too bad the wrong career took off with Mike. The Hot Dog Zone was actually pretty tasty!

I had a Moxi box for about 3 months. For me, they were nothing but trouble, and VERY slow!!! I also went through a couple. I never got a new one, always returns from someone else. I got rid of it becuase I did not think the DVR service was worth the price jump. I did not record one thing in that entire time. My kids used it a little. The alternative to the MOXI is the standard Motorola box. It is the biggest POS I have ever seen. If I would have known how bad the Mot* box is, I would have kept the Moxi. At least I cound configure the guide to eliminate the channels I do not receive.

KSDK looked great, although Mike Bush looked red to me. I got an older set, that was pressed into HD service. (Sears LXI CRT). It was on for several hours before. Any tips on calibrating it, Doug?kj,

I'm not familiar with that particular television. Is it actually a Sears brand, or is it a model of a major manufacturer that was specifically created for Sears?

Of course, I'd be interested in talking to you about arranging for a professional calibration of your set, but it sounds like it might not be justifiable if this TV is only a temporary solution. If that is the case, you should consider picking up an AVIA Guide to Home Theater DVD, or the Digital Video Essentials DVD and getting your TV's basic user controls set properly.

But if this set is keeper, by all means let's talk.

Use of AVIA or DVE shouldn't be confused with calibration, but both are very worthwhile in terms of getting your black level (brightness) set properly, as well as some help in reducing contrast (or picture) to a safe/correct level. These discs can also be useful in setting color balance (color/tint), though using the supplied filters can be tricky and will only get you so close.

Both discs will also provide some guidance on reducing sharpness and the artifacts associated with it.

Where use of these discs alone falls short is that you can't calibrate grayscale (color temperature) unless you also have access to a white reference or color analyzer equipment. Another important adjustment is realignment of the color decoder, which is the source of the "red push" that exists to varying degrees on all TVs. Color decoder adjustment requires service menu access, isolation of the individual colors and use of one or more patterns that are found on both discs. This adjustment is absolutely critical to seeing correct flesh tones without desaturating blue and green images.

Also, if your TV is a CRT-based rear-projection set, focus (electronic and lens) and geometry and convergence correction are critical to getting the sharpest possible picture and the maximum detail.

Note that AVIA and DVE normally will only allow you to adjust your TV for 480i or 480p sources -- unless you have a DVD player that upconverts to HD resolution and the required connections between your player and TV. Otherwise, an electronic signal generator with HD versions of the required test patterns is needed. Of course, I have that equipment in my arsenal.

FWIW, of the two discs, I strongly prefer AVIA, as the explanations for the different patterns are easier to understand, and disc navigation is light years simpler than DVE.

Cost of the consumer AVIA and DVE discs is around $40. Note that each also comes in a professional multi-disc version at a cost of several hundred dollars. But for basic user adjustments, the standard discs will work just fine.

Mr Remote,
I lost the PM that you sent me that discussed the Mitsu 52725 dlp and why I should, or should not have it pro cal'd. I am first going to try the Avia/DVE, but I have self-diagnosed OCD and will not be able to live with myself unless I can do everything to get the "perfect" picture. Yes, I know "perfect" is in the eye of the beholder, but I am a technical person and live in a world of 0's and 1's. So, for that, the picture is either setup or it is not. Right now, it is not.

I was surprised how kind HD was to her.

She's not young, she's not ugly.

I'm not going to pick on Mike Bush, but I LOVE your use of the term "newsreader."

I first came across this when I lived in London, and decided then it should be a "truth-in-labeling" precedent for ALL television news.

I think that's where the band The Talking Heads derived their name from.

I have a Mitsubishi 65" that had the typical "red push" before Doug calibrated it. It has looked great ever since, and the KSDK skin tones looked perfect last night. The overall picture looked so good, in fact, that I switched over to 5-2 just to see if they had shut it down! :D

Mike

scheerce,

You've got a private message!

Here's a good article about CableCards, and V2 coming up:

http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/cablecard.ars

I never realized my cablecard ready TV wouldn't accept V2 two-way cards. That's pretty lame. But the whole thing may be moot soon anyhow.

Doug, it's an old set. It was a LXI product made for Sears (no real idea who actually made the TV...that has caused issues elsewhere.) The TV was state of the art when it was made in 1988. Composite connections were a new deal for TVs, most of which used coax connections. It has served the family well, and we will be investigating options on a HDTV set.

The receiver is connected to the TV by composite connections (that probably has an effect on PQ right off, and it is piped through a recently made VCR. DVD player and receiver have component (no good, based on the TV's age), and S-Video (great for the Media Center Computer, but no good for the TV), so I have got the DVD and Receiver composite connections through the VCR (as a hub and gateway to the TV.)

You would be impressed with the what the TV is capable of, even though it's been around a while. I should mention that the TV is technically a TV/Monitor. It was made in the heyday of the Nintendo, and doubled a monitor, to save the screen from being destroyed by kids. I never played with that stuff, so that part of the set is being used now. Hope I haven't confused too much. :)

Hi,

Just joined this board. Don't know if you all can help me, but I am Charter Cable customer with a Moxi DVR Box so I can get HDTV. Have really fallen in love with the improved picture and sound. Have had the DVR service since August. In November, the box just burned out, went black on the display. Ever since then, the boxes we have had to replace it ( up to 3 now) have had a problem with spontaneous resetting. The last 2 seem better however, they still reset when I try to watch a recorded program.

Anyone else experience this problem? Still working with Charter on it., but just looking other sources of information in case its something other than the box causing it.

Sorry to move off your topics and thanks in advance for any advice you might have.

Kathy,

I got my Moxi way back in October of 2004, and have had the same box since day one with no problems. However, I've certainly read of others who have had problems. I've never seen your particular issue, but you might try posting in the dedicated Moxi thread (Link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7060201#post7060201)). Lots of extremely knowledgeable people over there, including a Moxi rep (Moxiguy, although I haven't seen him post in a while). Good luck!

Doug watching the news on kSDk....priceless

still to much red in their studio, plus my receiver was only getting Prologic sound, not 5.1.

Doug watching the news on kSDk....pricelessThere was more than a bit of irony there, on several different levels.

But I survived it...and might even do it again in a few years. ;)

Direct MPEG4 Receivers

At the CC in Chesterfield Commons today there was a sign for a Direct MPEG4 receiver for $199 with a $199 rebate. The sole CC person in the immediate area could provide no details on installation/appropriate dish.

jim

I might have this wrong, but I don't think there was any claim that KSDK's HD news would be in 5.1.

Frankly, I don't see any need or benefit to 5.1 sound for a news broadcast, though no doubt the promo department at one of the stations will eventually use it as a way to leapfrog the leader.

agreed that they don't need it. I guess I assumed it would be 5.1. Thats what happes when you assume.

OK, another question, but it might not belong here. This relates to the STB charter gives for HD (Motorola 6???, not Moxi). With this box, I have to choose 720P or 1080i. The moxi allowed to push whatever the broadcast was. Which should I choose?

OK, after watching both the 5 & 6 o'clock news on channel 5, there really isn't a red tint on their faces. I think I'm just stuck in red overload from the set.

scheerce,

Which resolution you choose will be, at least in part, determined by the sort of display you have and what its native resolution is.

Let us know what you've got.

Mitsu 52725. It can do either 720 or 1080,. I don't think I can set anything in the TV to change it or force it one way or another.

OK -- with a 720p native set, you should set your STB to output 720p.

I base this recommendation on the premise that it's best to avoid converting progressive programming (ESPN, FOX and ABC) to an interim interlaced format, only to have the TV's scaler convert it back to progressive. Once you go to interlaced video, you will be dealing with artifacts that you can't completely eliminate.

Also, the 1080i-to-720p deinterlacing is probably going to be more efficient in the STB than in the TV.

I've had my HD set for a week. Getting a solid OTA signal has been a challenge. I'm using a 15 year old Radio Shack antenna sitting in my attic (ranch house, low hipped roof). TV is connected via coax.

I've been to the attic (not an easy task) to reposition the antenna to get optimal SB (KDNL) reception. In doing so I get good signal for KSDK too, as well as KPLR. KMOV is spotty, but PBS and FOX don't come in at all. A slight change to the antenna direction and PBS and FOX come in, but the others don't.

I'm using a Channel Master signal amp. Without it I had drop outs on all channels.

What do you think are my best alternatives to getting reliable signal on all local channels?

What I can see I'm enjoying immensely. But I want more!

Thanks

Another,

Glad to have you here. Here's some suggestions that might help:

* Check the quality of your coax and make sure the integrity of the installation hasn't been compromised. It's possible that you may be getting some signal loss with an older cable.

* Based on the age of the antenna, I suspect that it's a combo VHF/UHF. All of the St. Louis digital channels are in the UHF band, and will be remaining there once the analog systems are shut down. You will get better reception with a UHF-only antenna. How much better is hard to say -- it's one of those things you have to experiment with to know. But considering the relatively low cost of antennas, this shouldn't be a huge obstacle.

* I'm not real familiar with Crestwood and its relation to the towers, but from the tower maps I created and posted here, it appears that you may have difficulty in getting all of the channels with a single antenna, as some of the stations are slightly northeast of you, some are due east and others are southeast or south. Your current antenna is probably more directional, so you could try a bay-type antenna that will have a wider field of reception.

Or you may need to have two antennas aimed separately and have them combined onto the single coax cable. In this situation, you would probably need to find a professional installer.

After sending this message, I'm going to repost a message ("We Interrupt...") that includes links to the tower maps and other resources/information that you may find helpful as an HDTV newcomer.

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

A couple of years ago, we used to start off each month with a reposting of the local resource messages that are now buried on the first page of this discussion thread. I think there's some useful bits and pieces of information there -- and not JUST because I wrote most of it.

Unfortunately a lot of that information is overlooked because it's so far off the beaten path, especially now that the St. Louis discussion archive stretches back more than 2 years and 300+ pages.

To try to address this, I'm going to post an advisory/reminder note similar to this every couple of weeks. Ideally this will make this information more visible and accessible to more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

So, here's to filling in some of those information gaps...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995679&&#post2995679)

Using An Antenna to Receive Local HD Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995718&&#post2995718)

Common Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7041311&&#post7041311)

And finally, I want to remind everyone -- newcomers and old hands alike -- that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

Jim,

In case you're still seeking feedback, Boston Legal audio sync seems better tonight on 30-1 but the video is still slightly ahead of the audio. I have a Dish network 811.

The local news in HD is a good thing even if you don't watch it. It is a catalyst for the industry that greatly advances the push to get all programming in HD. Just think how many long time loyal KSDK news viewers, like my parents were, will now seriously consider an HD set. The commercials follow and finally everything is in HD. This is why I have always been a proponent for local HD news even though I only watch the weather.

It can be done right. The news on HDnet is wonderful but they obviously have more time put quality into the production.

Jim,

In case you're still seeking feedback, Boston Legal audio sync seems better tonight on 30-1 but the video is still slightly ahead of the audio. I have a Dish network 811.

Thanks for the feedback. We worked on it this AM, but it keeps changing. Out of town now so I can't watch it... any other input is appreciated.
Jim

I asked this question over the weekend but I think that everyone was caught up in the super bowl to answer my question but I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with the Lacrosse from Antennas Direct. I have tried a DB2 on my roof and I didn’t get the best signal strength so I didn’t get it installed. I was going to maybe try the Lacrosse before I give up on the OTA idea.

Thanks Doug (and others), you have been really helpful...a few more stupid questions:

1) On my current D*, I get occasional dropout while watching some channels...this seems to be only local channels (this was happening a lot during the Super Bowl). It seems to happen on all my tv's, so I don't think it's an issue with the coax cable from the dish to the receiver. Are there any reports of this happening, and should I be worried about using the same wiring to go to my HD receiver?

2) Is it a bad idea to split the signal that goes from the dish to HD DVR; that is, rather than dropping three separate coax lines (one OTA, two from the dish), would it degrade the signal to drop two lines (one OTA/one dish) and then split the signal right next to the DVR?

I have requested that the official HD Sticky Channel thread be updated to show ABC30 as DD 5.1

Chris

I have requested that the official HD Sticky Channel thread be updated to show ABC30 as DD 5.1

ChrisDone.

Thanks for pointing that out...

rpj,

I haven't heard much about the LaCrosse. Maybe it would be worth posting a question at the AVS Official Antenna Topic thread.

Here's one mention (and one reply) about the LaCrosse there:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6653070&&#post6653070

But this goes back to early December, so now would be a good time to ask over there if anyone has had more recent experience with it.

rs,

You need three discrete lines going to the HD-TiVo -- two separate satellite feeds and one antenna feed. As far as I know, splitting one of the feeds from the satellite will limit you to single-event recording.

I've not seen anything like the dropouts you're describing, so can't comment further there.

I noticed during last night's 10 o'clock news on KSDK that my A/V receiver was lit up for Dolby Digital.

I didn't watch for long (you know the story) but I didn't hear a lot of surround activity. Maybe the broadcasts are actually 5.1, or maybe the audio stream was flagged incorrectly.

My parents had their MOXI in their audio cabinet and it had issues from the heat. Once they moved it on top, the problems stopped.

I'm still on a quest to find the best antenna for my needs. Have you looked at antennaweb.org? They will recommnd what type to get and that may help. Just choose the Show Digital Stations Only on the second page. For me it says, You need a Medium Directional Antenna. Then see if the Lacrosse is the type recommended.


I asked this question over the weekend but I think that everyone was caught up in the super bowl to answer my question but I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with the Lacrosse from Antennas Direct. I have tried a DB2 on my roof and I didn’t get the best signal strength so I didn’t get it installed. I was going to maybe try the Lacrosse before I give up on the OTA idea.

Two things about last night's 10 o'clock. One, I don't think they are used to the wider picture yet. They had the sports guy fiddling with something under the desk at one point.
Two, I think their remote reports looked really good last night. The Mike B in New Orleans did not look good, but the local remotes looked really good. I still don't like all the red in the studio or the very busy background.

Oh ya, there was a pregnant lady that walked by at one point in the broadcast :-)

I had one installer tell me that the Moxi runs over 200 degrees. When I had the Moxi, I had to leave the door open. That looked really good.....

I live in a ranch that has walk-out to my south. One is a two story walk-out. So, I consider myself in a pseudo-valley. I use a DB2 that wschultz helped me out with. We got ~65 on his OTA digital tuner meter. Not that great, but even when he heald it really high, it did not go up. With that, I do not get any dropouts on ABC. The only other two I get are Fox/CBS. Neither one of them stay locked in. I also tried a indoor antenna and did not get anything.

The "hottest" piece of equipment I've ever owned was the first-generation Panasonic DST-50 OTA HDTV receiver, which I bought with my HDTV back in 1998. This thing got terrifically hot, to the point where you could not lay your hand on it and leave it there for more than 10 seconds without feeling the pain.

As Dave Berry would say, "I'm not making this up."

Also, after being on for an hour or so, the heat of the OTA receiver caused the MPEG decoder to malfunction, with the result that the picture on the screen contained literally thousands of "blue sparklies." Panasonic ended up recalling those receivers and retrofitting them to operate somewhat cooler, but they still required a lot of ventilation space to operate well.

Oh yes, the joys of early adoption...

But one good thing about that receiver is that it included a proprietary Firewire connection to another proprietary Panasonic piece of gear -- a D-VHS recorder capable of recording the full OTA bitstream. It was so nice to be able to record HDTV and watch it in pixel-perfect replay -- even though together the receiver and recorder tipped the scales at over $2500, and in the early days of the HD rollout sometimes weeks would pass before something was was scheduled to appear in HD.

But hey, in those first couple of years, I never missed an OTA HD broadcast. I remember the conflict I felt the first time there were TWO HD programs on at the same time. :eek:

Ah, the nostalgia...

I think the LXI may have been made by Magnavox. Just going from memory, my father bought a 52" about 15 or so years ago. He is still using it.

Also, does anyone know how easy/hard it is to pick up the locals OTA in Maryville, IL. I have a friend having problems there. Just wondered if anyone from there is having success or knew of someone. Thank you.

Or you may need to have two antennas aimed separately and have them combined onto the single coax cable. In this situation, you would probably need to find a professional installer.


thx for the welcome and info.

Not to oversimplify, but when 2 antenna signals are combined to one is that as easy as feeding the two through a signal splitter in reverse?

Looking at your maps, I have almost 180 degrees of range to pick up. Would a bay-type antenna allow that kind of range without putting a rotor motor on the mast? I take it you're not a big fan of circular multi-directional antennas?

Thx again.
Doug

deuces,

I've had a couple of customers in Maryville, and neither had any reception issues that I can recall.

Maryville is certainly well within range, and I don't think there would be any major obstacles for line-of-sight to the tower cluster in St. Louis.

But as we've seen, trees and some landforms and/or buildings can create multipath that make reception of some stations in some specific locations difficult to achieve.

I think the usual suggestions apply here: doublecheck the cabling, check that your aiming correctly, try to use a UHF-only model, rooftop is better than attic, attic is better than indoor...

Another,

Here's a post over in the Official Antenna thread here at AVS that provides some more information about combining two antennas. This isn't a straightforward thing, which is why I suggested you might want to consider an installer familiar with this technique. But, of course, this is something you can certainly attempt on your own after reading up on it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6850168&&#post6850168

I would suggest searching that particular message thread (there's a "Search This Thread" box at the top of each page here at AVS) for more info about combining antennas.

I'm not familiar with the circular antennas you refer to. A rotor could be a workable solution, but that will fall short of being ideal if you regularly use (or plan to use in future) a DVR to time-shift OTA programs...

I've had a couple of customers in Maryville, and neither had any reception issues that I can recall.




Thanks that's what I wanted to hear. Just enough to make him keep trying and my brother in law and I may run up to help him some weekend.

TUBE TALK

KDNL blows it for “Grey’s Anatomy”
By Gail Pennington
02/06/2006 5:05 pm
Viewers were really steamed this morning about KDNL’s abuse of “Grey’s Anatomy” in the post-Super Bowl time slot Sunday night. My email box was full of diatribes, including one with the subject line “Can we sue KDNL?” and another addressed to “Idiot Programmers” and cc’d to me.

What happened was that throughout the game, ABC apparently (and I say apparently because I was watching the Puppy Bowl over on Animal Planet) promoted the very special “Grey’s” episode as “immediately following” the network’s postgame show. Actually, KDNL — as it has for the last two Super Bowls — inserted a one-hour local postgame show before rejoining the network. Listings were pretty much correct on this — PDtv book said 10:15 p.m. for “Grey’s,” and my on-screen guide said the same — but a lot of people didn’t pay any attention to this and sat there waiting and waiting through an interminable hour. (I won’t quote some of the stuff my emailers said about the local show and its hosts, but the kindest word anyone used was “inane.”)

I called over to the station this morning, and general manager Tom Tipton called me back to say, essentially, that if people were upset, tough. He said they’d announced the special in advance, and listings were right (off about 10 minutes, but that’s close to right where a sporting event is concerned). He said to call the main station number and ask for programming to complain further.

Here’s the thing: We know KDNL is a disappointment as an ABC affiliate, mainly thanks to decisions made by owner Sinclair. ABC might like to go somewhere else but doesn’t see anywhere to move. Why should we be surprised that the station inserts a local hour, reaping 100 percent of the commercial revenue, when it gets a chance? We just have to expect moves like this and try to outwit them — say, by recording “Grey’s Anatomy” and going to bed. That’s what I did.

Will the episode be repeated? Yes, probably, next summer in rerun season. Meanwhile, it turned out to be a two-parter that concludes next week.

Here are some Super Bowl ratings. Keep reading for how well “Grey’s Anatomy” did nationally. By the way, Animal Planet’s puppies were cute, but the kittens that performed at halftime deserve their own series.

“Super Bowl XL” Reaches 141.4 Million Unduplicated U.S. Viewers,
Representing the 2nd Biggest Reach Ever for a “Super Bowl” Telecast

Drawing an Average Audience of 90.7 Million Viewers 2+,
“Super Bowl XL” is the Most-Watched Television Program in 10 Years

Marking the Series’ Strongest Performance Ever, ABC’s “Grey’s Anatomy”
Is the Most-Watched Post-“Super Bowl” Entertainment Telecast
In 5 Years and the 3rd-Highest in the Last 18 Years

In Total Viewers and Adults 18-49, “Grey’s Anatomy” is TV’s Biggest
Entertainment Telecast Since the Series Finale of “Friends” in May 2004

“Super Bowl XL” (6:26-10:10 p.m.)
As the Pittsburgh Steelers beat the Seattle Seahawks by a score of 21-10 to win the national championship, ABC Sports’ presentation of “Super Bowl XL” reached an estimated 141.4 million U.S. television viewers during its nearly 4-hour telecast – unduplicated viewers who watched 6-minutes or more of the telecast. It was the 2nd-biggest total audience reach ever for a “Super Bowl” telecast, second only to “Super Bowl XXXVII” on 2/1/04.

· The game attracted an average audience of 90.72 million viewers,representing the largest average audience for a“Super Bowl” telecast in 10 years – since 1996. In fact, it was the largest audience for any TV program since the same date (1/28/96). The telecast notched
a 34.6 rating among Adults 18-49, up 4% over last year’s game on Fox (33.2/68).

“Grey’s Anatomy” (10:27-11:27 p.m.)
Following coverage of the game, ABC’s “Grey’s Anatomy” posted the series’ highest-ever numbers, with an average audience of 38.1 million viewers and a 16.6 rating among Adults 18-49. The sophomore ABC drama surpassed its previous series highs by 15.9 million viewers and by 69% in Adults 18-49, set on its first season finale last May (22.2 million & 9.8/24 on 5/22/05).

· In Total Viewers and Adults 18-49, “Grey’s Anatomy” delivered the strongest numbers for a post-“Super Bowl” entertainment program in 5 years – since CBS’premiere of “Survivor II” on 1/28/01. In fact it was the 3rd-most-watched telecast to follow the “Super Bowl” in the last 18 years – since the start of the Nielsen electronic database in 1991, behind only “Survivor II” in 2001 and “Friends” in 1996.

· “Grey’s Anatomy” stands as the top-rated entertainment program on TV this season among Total Viewers and Adults 18-49– best for any entertainment program since the night of the series finale for “Friends” on 5/6/04.

· In addition, “Grey’s Anatomy” is ABC’s most-watched series telecast in nearly 12 years and its top-rated among Adults 18-49 in close to 9 years – since 3/30/94 and 4/30/97, respectively.

Source: Nielsen Media Research (Fast National Ratings, Live+SD)2/5/0



I wonder if he actually said "Frak them" instead of "tough"? It wouldn't surprise me for a Sinclair station.

Direct MPEG4 Receivers

At the CC in Chesterfield Commons today there was a sign for a Direct MPEG4 receiver for $199 with a $199 rebate. The sole CC person in the immediate area could provide no details on installation/appropriate dish.

jim

Of course, that's what happens when you fire all of your commisioned salespeople.

Scott

......essentially, that if people were upset, tough.....

Remember the scene in Anchorman when Ron slipped the F word at his town? See how he was treated. To bad we can't do the same.....

This is a little off topic, and shows my ignorance. But I am getting ready to leave on a ski trip. First trip since I got my Pocketdish from DishNetwork. Can anyone reassure me that everything should be fine and I won't lose programming by putting it through the X-ray machine at the airport.

PS - I could just hide it in my shoe. Doh! I have to take my shoes off. What is this a Japanese restaraunt?

Happened to find this this morning some D* MPEG 4 info. http://finanzen.net/news/news_detail.asp?NewsNr=343417. Sorry haven't figured out how to post a link yet. Also quick question. I have a Dell Dimension 8200 and a Sony SXRD what do I need to hook the two together?

Happened to find this this morning some D* MPEG 4 info. http://finanzen.net/news/news_detail.asp?NewsNr=343417. Sorry haven't figured out how to post a link yet. Also quick question. I have a Dell Dimension 8200 and a Sony SXRD what do I need to hook the two together?

You would need a DVI out from you video card to a DVI in on your TV.

Or you could use the 15 pin DIN if you have that on your TV but that might
limit your resolution.

You might want to browse the HTPC thread.

Do you have MCE installed or is this just a winders PC that you are going to
connect?

I'm in Kirkwood and have been getting HD OTA since 09/05; am using an indoor Terk HDTVi (similar to the Silver Sensor) and can get every local station except UPN. The antenna sits on top of my TV hutch about 18" from the ceiling on the first floor. No problem with PBS or FOX except sometimes during the daytime will not get a signal. Do not have to move the antenna at all.
I've had my HD set for a week. Getting a solid OTA signal has been a challenge. I'm using a 15 year old Radio Shack antenna sitting in my attic (ranch house, low hipped roof). TV is connected via coax.

I've been to the attic (not an easy task) to reposition the antenna to get optimal SB (KDNL) reception. In doing so I get good signal for KSDK too, as well as KPLR. KMOV is spotty, but PBS and FOX don't come in at all. A slight change to the antenna direction and PBS and FOX come in, but the others don't.

I'm using a Channel Master signal amp. Without it I had drop outs on all channels.

What do you think are my best alternatives to getting reliable signal on all local channels?

What I can see I'm enjoying immensely. But I want more!

Thanks

Thank you all for all your advice.

I thought Heat might be an issue too, but the techs said they checked that and I have the box sitting on top of the TV set. We don't feel any heat off the set and the fans in the back are all clear.

Last night it actually worked just fine, so hopefully we were dealing with some software issue now that was fixed. The last tech who was in said that after all the box work is checked that's often what it is. It was very difficult to get answers, but we shalll see.

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

Kathy :)

I get the feeling that Sinclair sees viewers as an anoyance.

......essentially, that if people were upset, tough.....

Remember the scene in Anchorman when Ron slipped the F word at his town? See how he was treated. To bad we can't do the same.....

That was funny.

The best line in the film though:
Why don't you go back to your home on Whore Island!

I'm impressed with their HD newscast; colors are vibrant and the people look better (natural skin tones) in HD than they did previously in SD. My only concern is that the background looks 'busy'; it's distracting. Let's give them credit for being the first in STL and apparently one of the very few nationwide with this capability.
KSDK looked great, although Mike Bush looked red to me. I got an older set, that was pressed into HD service. (Sears LXI CRT). It was on for several hours before. Any tips on calibrating it, Doug?

The noon newscast (on right now) is using more elements than last night. They seem to be correcting for the bar issues during the weather reports.

Well what the heck are KPLR, KMOV, and KTVI waiting for.

On the PSIP front: KTVI turned it on, and then it went off again. KSDK (busy with the HD upgrade).

Off Topic: I liked the deep-throat announcer better on KSDK.

Thanks for the blog link!

I called over to the station this morning, and general manager Tom Tipton called me back to say, essentially, that if people were upset, tough. He said they’d announced the special in advance, and listings were right (off about 10 minutes, but that’s close to right where a sporting event is concerned). He said to call the main station number and ask for programming to complain further.

I think more than anything else, this is what annoys me about our local ABC affiliate. I understand that they're trying to maximize income and see charging extra for HD as a way to do that but when you tell your listeners "tough" because they're not happy, you shouldn't be in any type of service industry.

Some other thoughts:

- I watched the last few minutes of this post-game show and they were talking about Missouri Tiger basketball - how is that relevant to the Super Bowl?

- Why couldn't KDNL start their show at the end of ABC's network show and end it when Grey's Anatomy was supposed to start?

- Had you set up your DVR to record the show, the listings weren't correct and you would have missed a large chunk of Grey's Anatomy.

- Even though I can't watch ABC in HD (Charter customer who doesn't want to spend the money on a tuner and antenna for one station), it's unexcusable that our local station can't broadcast shows in HD they choose to delay because they haven't bought the equipment.

Jim, I know you have been a great asset to this forum and I want you to know that when I criticize your employer, none of this is directed to you. More than anything, I feel bad that you have to work at a station that has to be one of the worst ABC affiliates in the country.

How many other ABC affiliates show "The Simpsons" and "Millionaire" instead of local news? I'm glad Jimmy Kimmel Live is finally back after disappearing for a few months but I wish it was actually live instead of being shown after EXTRA.

Hopefully we'll get to a point where Charter and KDNL work something out but I'm not holding my breath.

OK, that's enough of a rant for one day...

You would need a DVI out from you video card to a DVI in on your TV.

Or you could use the 15 pin DIN if you have that on your TV but that might
limit your resolution.

You might want to browse the HTPC thread.

Do you have MCE installed or is this just a winders PC that you are going to
connect?
First I should explain my knowledge in computers is limited. I have WIndows XP. Not sure what MCE is. My book (TV) says 15 pin HD15-HD15. I guess my main question is is my computer set up to accept this 15 pin or do I need to add a card?

How many other ABC affiliates show "The Simpsons" and "Millionaire" instead of local news?I don't know the answer to your question, but I think it's basically irrelevant.

Do we really need to have FIVE local TV news broadcasts (KTVI, KMOV, KSDK, KPLR AND KDNL?) Should KDNL be expected to slavishly follow the leader(s), when there's little chance of becoming the leader itself, in what would end up as an even more fragmented market for local TV news?

It seems to me that Sinclair is making not just a smart business decision -- but the only logical business decision -- in opting out of what is most likely a no-win situation. "Millionaire" and "The Simpsons" probably don't draw as big an audience as the leading local news show, but I wouldn't be surprised if they finish somewhere in the middle of the ratings pack during those time slots. From a business standpoint, their game show and cartoon approach probably adds more to the bottom line than cost-intensive local news programming.

I might feel differently about this if ALL stations opted out of local news, but I think that's highly unlikely to happen, as vacuums like that tend to get filled quite quickly because they translate to opportunity.

In general, I agree with your other points (though any DVR worthy of the name should allow you to pad the beginning or the end of a program). But as far as local news goes, I just don't follow the logic that every local station should do local news, just because that's the way it's always been.

This is a little off topic, and shows my ignorance. But I am getting ready to leave on a ski trip. First trip since I got my Pocketdish from DishNetwork. Can anyone reassure me that everything should be fine and I won't lose programming by putting it through the X-ray machine at the airport.

PS - I could just hide it in my shoe. Doh! I have to take my shoes off. What is this a Japanese restaraunt?
Deuces,
When traveling, I put my laptops, iPod, and DVD player through x-ray. Never been a problem.
As you know, I don't have a PocketDish, but I can't imagine there's anything inside it different than the combination of what I've put through x-ray.

If you prefer, you can avoid x-ray by asking TSA to manually secure it. They will want to see it operate, and they will swab it. Though, then you run the risk of the TSA agents dropping it!

Deuces,
When traveling, I put my laptops, iPod, and DVD player through x-ray. Never been a problem.
As you know, I don't have a PocketDish, but I can't imagine there's anything inside it different than the combination of what I've put through x-ray.




Good enough, I take it you didn't like the shoe idea.

Is anyone having problems with ktvi recently? I have a Directv H10-250 DVR and get my HD OTA. This is the first problem I have had with ktvi since Aug. 2005. The picture freezes and looses sound about 2 or 3 times an hour for about 1 to 2 seconds. Signal strength normally is 90 to 92 and steady . The problem is limited to ktvi, all other chaannels are good.

MCE is Miscrosoft Windows XP Media Center Edition. http://heh.pl/&2GK

Your video card needs to have a digital input (not just the usual VGA D-sub which is blue and roughly in the shape of a D). If not, AFAIK then you need to get a digital video card. They make them with two DVI ports or like mine, one D-sub and one DVI. May want to see if there are adapters.

From Windows MCE page: http://heh.pl/&2GJ
Tip: If your PC and TV/monitor do not share a connection type, you may want to purchase an adapter to convert one end of the cable to a type you can use. Alternatively, if you want to achieve a higher quality signal than your TV or PC (video card) can support, consider purchasing a different video card or a TV that supports the connection type (and signal quality) you desire.

First I should explain my knowledge in computers is limited. I have WIndows XP. Not sure what MCE is. My book (TV) says 15 pin HD15-HD15. I guess my main question is is my computer set up to accept this 15 pin or do I need to add a card?

Is anyone having problems with ktvi recently? I have a Directv H10-250 DVR and get my HD OTA. This is the first problem I have had with ktvi since Aug. 2005. The picture freezes and looses sound about 2 or 3 times an hour for about 1 to 2 seconds. Signal strength normally is 90 to 92 and steady . The problem is limited to ktvi, all other chaannels are good.

i had several drop outs last night during House on my Dish 921 with OTA receiver. I was about ready to post the same question. I haven't had issues with KTVI for a long time.

i had several drop outs last night during House on my Dish 921 with OTA receiver. I was about ready to post the same question. I haven't had issues with KTVI for a long time.
Ditto for me too. Most of the drops just seemed to be audio blips that I noticed on my receiver (not sure if it was losing the 5.1 flag, or what). I did also notice a few visual drops during House.

Something was screwy with House last night. I was watching it on another TV [non HD...bad me ;)], and the audio dropped out twice, at least. I think it was the network...

On the local news issue: ABC usually, like FOX requires local news on their stations. It helps feed the network news departments. Think about the Praxair situation last year. ABC was a few steps behind FOX, CBS, and NBC because KDNL was lacking a operating news department. ABC had to rely on other stations in other locations to provide them with up to minute information. Further, Sinclair's unwillingness to invest (nationwide) at stations they own contribute to the problems their stations have (ongoing problems with parts, etc.). KDNL is a embarrassing ABC station, and needs a change of ownership, possibly by the network. Jim, these statements are directed at your employer, and not you. From what we've seen, you're best they've got down there.

Lionheart, there are a few ABC stations in smaller markets without news, but they are usually in places far smaller than St. Louis.

Doug, your points are well taken. At first blush, it would appear that stations are merely repeating each other. What should be noticed is that stations may report the same news, but report it differently, more in depth, and even report things another station may not, because of time constraints.

I have a media center PC, and I have a connection on the back (D-Shaped) that allows for component connections to the computer. What I'm fuzzy on is whether they are input or output. The computer is being repaired right now, so I can't check. The machine has S-Video connections, input/output, and a connection for composite.

On LXI televisions: I've seen where Sears contracted with at least 5 companies for TVs in 80s an 90s. So it might very well be a Magnavox, or a Samsung, or a RCA...you get the picture.

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 and a Sony SXRD what do I need to hook the two together?
Duvy56,

I use DVI out to HDMI into the set (VIDEO 6 or 7). I would suggest a DVI to HDMI cable rather than a HDMI converter plug on back of set. I have this and it is heavier and tends to come loose if bumped.

wmschultz is correct about the limited resolution if you use the VIDEO 8 input, 15 pin D-Sub (typical pc monitor cable). It will not fill the screen.

Dave

If avalible in the St. Louis area would anyone switch to verzion fios from D* E* or Charter. I think I would they have a dvr and people say the PQ is darn good from what I here.

<snip>
- I'm glad Jimmy Kimmel Live is finally back after disappearing for a few months but I wish it was actually live instead of being shown after EXTRA.

Hopefully we'll get to a point where Charter and KDNL work something out but I'm not holding my breath.

OK, that's enough of a rant for one day...

I noticed that just before Jimmy Kimmel returned to KDNL his show was airing locally on the Mt. Vernon Station (Was PAX TV). Charter cable number 13.

and Sunday I happened to notice a Basketball game airing on 13 with the ABC logo in the corner.

Looks like there is some arrangement for this station to pick up some ABC programming that KDNL-30 chooses not to air. I remember something like this happening back in the '70's when KSDK had the rights to Cardinal Baseball and NBC would air on KPLR 11 back when they were strictly independent.

BTW, anybody know why the Mt. Vernon station isn't Pax anymore? I still see the PAX listings in the National TV Guide but it seems to be using a network affiliation of RTN (Retro TV Network) and showing reruns of old sitcoms from old tapes

If avalible in the St. Louis area would anyone switch to verzion fios from D* E* or Charter. I think I would they have a dvr and people say the PQ is darn good from what I here.

Forget the TV service, I'd switch in a heartbeat for 15Mbps down/2Mbps up FIOS DSL @ $49.99/month (before any new sub. discounts, usually $10/month off for 12 months).

If avalible in the St. Louis area would anyone switch to verzion fios from D* E* or Charter. I think I would they have a dvr and people say the PQ is darn good from what I here.


I'd take any service delivered via fiber, over cable and sat any day. When it comes, I'm there, whether its Verizon or another competitor.

Also, does anyone know how easy/hard it is to pick up the locals OTA in Maryville, IL. I have a friend having problems there. Just wondered if anyone from there is having success or knew of someone. Thank you.

No problems in Troy.

Forget the TV service, I'd switch in a heartbeat for 15Mbps down/2Mbps up FIOS DSL @ $49.99/month (before any new sub. discounts, usually $10/month off for 12 months).

The question is - when is this likely to hit St. Louis? I tried to get DSL for years at my home. SBC told me it was impossible. They finally came out and, wonder of wonders, I could get it (although at the lowest data rate they could deliver). I still took it, being absolutely sick of dial up. When Charter upgraded to cable modem service in my area, I jumped on it. Now, that service has been very spotty, going down quite frequently (requiring a modem unplug to get me back up and running). I would leap at reliable DSL, but SBC showed no interest in upgrading my area.

Well, DSL is more about your distance from a switching station. As for fiber, its not an issue -- but of course we'd have to have the fiber cables actually in place. I have no idea if that's even happened around here. We can always dream.

The question is - when is this likely to hit St. Louis?

SBC has been slow to upgrade to fiber (at least, not as fast as Verizon), but they have started it. As for when it would come to St. Louis, I'd guess 2-3yrs?

Here's an old article (2004) about their upgrade which estimates ~2007

http://www.convergedigest.com/DSL/lastmilearticle.asp?ID=12938

First I should explain my knowledge in computers is limited. I have WIndows XP. Not sure what MCE is. My book (TV) says 15 pin HD15-HD15. I guess my main question is is my computer set up to accept this 15 pin or do I need to add a card?

I know others have answered you already, but let me get some info:

1. What are you trying to achieve by hooking your computer up to your TV?
The answer to this could result in you deciding not to go this route.

2. What is the exact model of your TV, cuz I looked at Sony's website and the
TV I looked up didn't have a 15pin VGA input.

3. What type of video card is in your computer?

From this information we should be able to help you in the type of connection
and the settings you will need.