Get Directv and very soon you will get ALL HD from a dish and won't need a antenna. More inportantly, you can tell Charter to take a hike. :D

Scott

You'll get Fox, CBS and NBC digitals for sure. ABC is assumed, but who knows with Sinclair. You will not be getting PBS, WB, UPN, etc... in HD from them. Perhaps when the WB and UPN combine later this year, we'll get that new network as a "major" network, but I wouldn't hold your breathe.

If you're a Cardinals fan, or watch anything else on KPLR-DT, plan on getting that HD other than from D*.

D* subs....
I was at my son's yesterday. We were waiting from some friends to come over, and were watching TV for about an hour. Switching between TBS, a SAT local, I think it was KSDK, and one of the MLB EI broadcasts.
About every 10 minutes or so, his DtV displayed a message, "signal lost" for about 5 seconds, and then the program came back up.
I asked him how often it does that. He said, it comes and goes, but when it's doing it, it will happen on all channels (other than OTA), about every 10-15 minutes, and last 2-3 days. Then it will go for a couple of weeks and be fine.

Ideas? Suggestions?

His location, line-of-site, reception surroundings, etc., is not an issue.
When it's "acting up," it happens on all 3 of his DtV receivers, HD DVR, HD, and SD.

D* subs....
I was at my son's yesterday. We were waiting from some friends to come over, and were watching TV for about an hour. Switching between TBS, a SAT local, I think it was KSDK, and one of the MLB EI broadcasts.
About every 10 minutes or so, his DtV displayed a message, "signal lost" for about 5 seconds, and then the program came back up.
I asked him how often it does that. He said, it comes and goes, but when it's doing it, it will happen on all channels (other than OTA), about every 10-15 minutes, and last 2-3 days. Then it will go for a couple of weeks and be fine.

Ideas? Suggestions?

His location, line-of-site, reception surroundings, etc., is not an issue.
When it's "acting up," it happens on all 3 of his DtV receivers, HD DVR, HD, and SD.

He may want to check his LNBs. If there is a crack in it water moisture can degrade the signal. Perhaps an overall inspection of the hardware may be in order. Is ther much fluctiation in the sat signals? Are they high? If not, it may be out of alignment. Just guessing but if it's sporadic like you said, it may be rain related. I'd check the LNBs and dish as well as knawed or poor outside cabling. The dish roof screws may be need tightening down as high wind could be a factor too.

Edit: I have heard of diplexors going bad too.

Get Directv and very soon you will get ALL HD from a dish and won't need a antenna. More inportantly, you can tell Charter to take a hike. :D

Scott
Personally, I'd prefer to stick with Charter and keep my TiVo. If D* had stuck with TiVo, I'd be with them in a heartbeat.

He may want to check his LNBs. If there is a crack in it water moisture can degrade the signal. Perhaps an overall inspection of the hardware may be in order. Is ther much fluctiation in the sat signals? Are they high? If not, it may be out of alignment. Just guessing but if it's sporadic like you said, it may be rain related. I'd check the LNBs and dish as well as knawed or poor outside cabling. The dish roof screws may be need tightening down as high wind could be a factor too.

Edit: I have heard of diplexors going bad too.
Thanks Mo, my first thought is that it points to something on the outside, though the install is only 8 months out, and everything then was new. He had service out on it once, and of course, Murphy showed up an hour ahead of the tech.
I suppose moisture may be a factor, but I think by yesterday, anything moisture related would have pretty much dried up.
He does a tons of squirrels in the neighborhood, and the cabling runs through his attic. I'll tell him to check the cable runs.

I'm about to give up on OTA reception of HD, throw in the towel, and go the CableCard route with Charter. Since I already have a sub with them, what's another $6.50 per month?

A little Google and I find numerous issues with Sony SXRD/XBR/Grand Wega not playing nice with cable cards in use with various cable providers including TWC, Comcast, and Charter.

Those of you with Charter and CableCard, is it smooth sailing? Anybody with a Sony and a CC and Charter have horror stories?

TIA

Doug
Crestwood

Set info: Sony KDSR50XBR1 SXRD

I have an Sony XBR 960 and use the Cable Card. I haven't had any issues.

jdiehl,
I see that you live in O'Fallon too.
Can you tell me what anteanna you use for your OTA stations? Is it mounted inside the attic or outside?

I am getting ready to cut back on expenses, and Dish is going away. I need to get OTA for all my tv's and would prefer to have an antenna that works best if mounted in the attic.

Thanks.

sorry to change the subject, but is anyone else with Charter High Speed having issues accessing STLToday?

jdiehl,
I see that you live in O'Fallon too.
Can you tell me what anteanna you use for your OTA stations? Is it mounted inside the attic or outside?

I am getting ready to cut back on expenses, and Dish is going away. I need to get OTA for all my tv's and would prefer to have an antenna that works best if mounted in the attic.

Thanks.

I use a Channel Master CM4221 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A) that I bought from Skywalker Communications (http://www.skywalker.com/) in O'Fallon.

It's mounted on mast that I attached inside my attic (2 story home). My RG6 run is at least 100ft. I get 95+ signals on everything but UPN (which is going away anyway).

sorry to change the subject, but is anyone else with Charter High Speed having issues accessing STLToday?I just checked and no problem for me.

FWIW, here's the DNS I'm using:

24.217.0.5
24.217.0.55

I have a Winegard VHF/UHF antenna mounted on my roof on a tripod. I get 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 5.2, all 9.X, 11.1 and 30.1. My signal strength is from 88 to 95, but will bounce around. I would like to add a 2 bay Bowtie on the mast under the other antenna so I can aim for better signal and to possibly get the missing channels. I use the Winegard for FM reception, so I still need it. Any thoughts on what would be the best way of doing this, and what would I need?

Thanks in advance

Chuck

Help an ignorant man, please. Besides the soon defunct 46.1, what channels are you missing? Thanks, Art.

I just checked and no problem for me.

FWIW, here's the DNS I'm using:

24.217.0.5
24.217.0.55
yeah, that's mine too. but I can't pull up the site for anything.

Help an ignorant man, please. Besides the soon defunt 46.1, what channels are you missing? Thanks, Art.

Well, 46.1 was one of them, but 24 and what ever the local Pax channel is.

I use a Channel Master CM4221 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A) that I bought from Skywalker Communications (http://www.skywalker.com/) in O'Fallon.

It's mounted on mast that I attached inside my attic (2 story home). My RG6 run is at least 100ft. I get 95+ signals on everything but UPN (which is going away anyway).

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you split your signal?

yeah, that's mine too. but I can't pull up the site for anything.


Working fine here.

I have a Winegard VHF/UHF antenna mounted on my roof on a tripod. I get 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 5.2, all 9.X, 11.1 and 30.1. My signal strength is from 88 to 95, but will bounce around. I would like to add a 2 bay Bowtie on the mast under the other antenna so I can aim for better signal and to possibly get the missing channels. I use the Winegard for FM reception, so I still need it. Any thoughts on what would be the best way of doing this, and what would I need?

Thanks in advance

Chuck

I would add another run of coax and connect the bow-tie to your TV and the Winegard to your FM receiver.

If you can't run another cable you can combine both antennas into one coax with something like this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&cp=&productId=2062060&origkw=splitter&kw=splitter&tab=techSpecs) and split it out between your TV and FM receiver with an identical splitter at the other end. You may need to use transformers or find one with coaxial outputs if either your TV or receiver has coaxial inputs.

You should aim for splitters like these that include bandpass filters to separate the UHF and VHF bands ir the dissimilar antenna can interfere with each other.

TiVo Wins $74 Million Patent Verdict Against EchoStar
_____________________

TIVO Patent Upheld

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aBDSbv99aDpY&refer=news_index

jim

D* subs....
I was at my son's yesterday. We were waiting from some friends to come over, and were watching TV for about an hour. Switching between TBS, a SAT local, I think it was KSDK, and one of the MLB EI broadcasts.
About every 10 minutes or so, his DtV displayed a message, "signal lost" for about 5 seconds, and then the program came back up.
I asked him how often it does that. He said, it comes and goes, but when it's doing it, it will happen on all channels (other than OTA), about every 10-15 minutes, and last 2-3 days. Then it will go for a couple of weeks and be fine.

Ideas? Suggestions?

His location, line-of-site, reception surroundings, etc., is not an issue.
When it's "acting up," it happens on all 3 of his DtV receivers, HD DVR, HD, and SD.

I'm an E* sub, but check signal strength. If the dish is not aimed correctly, he could be on the hairy edge of service/no-service. Also check if trees are in his line of sight. As leaves sprout, the signal may be degrading.

Anyone having issues with KSDK HD OTA? I started getting severe pixellation tonight about 3/4 of the way through ER and it hasn't stopped. Maybe I need to adjust my antenna but I haven't had any problems with it until tonight.

What was with the No Signal Lock message that clipped the opening scene of CSI last night? I'm guessing it was the network and not local. I have D* using OTA. Did E*or cable users see it too?

I saw the same thing and I'm on Charter...

What was with the No Signal Lock message that clipped the opening scene of CSI last night? I'm guessing it was the network and not local. I have D* using OTA. Did E*or cable users see it too?

I noticed the same message with OTA and D*. I just switched to SD for the first few minutes. ***note to self: turn down volume before switching to SD***

Cable Industry Slowed by Shortage of HD Receivers

Interesting story from TVPredictions.com (via the St. Louis Post-Dispatch) that dovetails with the discussion here earlier in the week about the Charter waiting lists for various types of HD receivers...
______________________________________________

I was told recently by an industry source that cable TV operators are having trouble meeting the growing demand for High-Definition TV receivers. Apparently, high-def sales have grown faster than they -- and their set-top suppliers -- had anticipated. Consequently, the source says, some cable operators are putting HDTV on the back burner until they can ramp up set-top production. That might explain why you're not seeing new HD channels being added to your local cable lineup.

Today, the St. Louis Post Dispatch offers some evidence to support this theory. The newspaper says Charter cable subscribers are being told that they can not subscribe to a high-def package now because there is a shortage of HD receivers. Customers were told that there's a waiting list of 800 people.
______________________________________________

To read the P-D story, click here. (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/savvyconsumer/story/FA5C52A54EE084F48625715000318AFD?OpenDocument)

Looks like there's something of an organized movement coming together to undermine the launches of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, due to copy protection issues and incompatible multiple formats.

http://writersblocklive.com/boycott/

I am SOOOOO done with the "fair use" BS. All these winers need to get a clue. (hint: bit perfect digital copies of copyrighted material is NOT a right or part of "fair use". Nobody is stoping you from setting up a camcorder on a tripod in front of your display device for educational purposes or backup copies)

These formats will be obsolete by the time they get their acts together anyhow.

Tom, let me come at it from a slightly different direction.

I find it highly peculiar that in an age where items cost more and more, the MPAA and RIAA keep finding "excuses" why they can't make even more exorbitant profits off the consumer. Restricting what a consumer can do with something they paid for is silly, and in no way infringes on intellectual property. As a consumer, I should have the right to copy my CDs, DVDs, and television shows, without fear of fines, jailtime, or reduced quality just becuase somebody with more money than they will ever need, just has to have a few million more. Where does it stop?

We should remember that one persons (or entities) rights stop when they infringe on somebody elses. What I have to say to the motion picture industry and music industry is to stop whining, price it fairly, and give people there full "fair use" rights, and mark up the miniscule loses for taxes, and up the quality of the product, and whaddaya know, the consumer just might actually consider buying things a bit more often. Charging what the market will bear for a substandard product is ridiculous. That's the problem. It's not consumer, or the pirates (that I don't support, btw...stealing is stealing).

I noticed the same message with OTA and D*. I just switched to SD for the first few minutes. ***note to self: turn down volume before switching to SD***


Yeah...you tend to forget that sound mix for analog is a bit more "in your face." :)

Tom,

I don't think "fair use" is by any means the only, or even largest, issue here. Fair use is more about use of content received over the air or via cable/satellite.

The fact that there are two incompatible HD formats for DVD is a big issue and probably enough by itself to sink the launch of these products. Add in the fact that analog "down-rezzing" can be imposed at whim by any studio for any title, is another huge issue. I think that even with a single format, the analog down-rezzing possibility would be enough to sink a single-format -- if consumers were aware of the issue.

Don't you think there should be a mechanism to inform consumers about these issues? It sure as hell isn't going to come from the manufacturers, and there aren't nearly enough fully informed sales staff at retail (such as yourself) to get the job done. And even if there were, I'm doubtful that even a sales guy with the facts would routinely offer up the information required for an informed buying decision.

I think both of these formats are headed for failure anyway, but the more consumers know about the pluses and minuses, the sooner it will happen and we can move onto a more sensible product for everyone involved.

This is going to be train wreck.

I am SOOOOO done with the "fair use" BS. All these winers need to get a clue. (hint: bit perfect digital copies of copyrighted material is NOT a right or part of "fair use". Nobody is stoping you from setting up a camcorder on a tripod in front of your display device for educational purposes or backup copies)

Respectfully, Tom, that's a dismissive way of looking at a complex issue. If that were all it amounted to, then why would the content owners be so very insistent that even the "analog hole" be plugged? Why would they insist that analog signals be downrezzed through component outputs? Those are not bit accurate digital signals and the average consumer has no way of copying them, but the content providers are ready to cut off millions of early HD sets from having full resolution access to HD-DVD and BluRay content.

I think it's more the content providers that need to "get a clue." If they'd had their way, we never would have had VHS decks for home recording. They have never demonstrated that they know what is in their own best interest for long term success. The best thing to happen to movie studios in the past few years was the adoption of the industry standard DVD format. That has provided a windfall of profits for the studios. Now, because of the greed of some consumer electronics manufacturers (Sony/Toshiba), the next generation HD disc format is in doubt.

Some powerful entities (Microsoft, for example) are supporting what's called managed copy of content to address some of the concerns of consumers about how they can use content legally purchased. It may not be to eveyone's liking, but it recognizes the frustration of consumers over Draconian copy protection efforts. The content providers may just be able to force through additional legislation and get their way. Let's see how much good it does them in the long run if they do. The DVD model says that if you give consumers what they want in a convenient, affordable package, they'll pay for it and it will succeed. The content providers don't get that.

Sony has said they won't downrez the component outputs of their first batch of Blu-ray titles, but we have no guarantee that will still be the case a year from now.

Since my HDTV is a 36XBR400 (purchased in 2001) with no HDMI inputs, I will not buy a Blu-ray or an HD-DVD player until one is produced that has the analog downrez "feature" DISABLED at the hardware level (i.e., the component outputs will play a true HD signal regardless of what the disc says).... or at least until one is produced that I can hack into and disable that "feature" myself.

It's not about the copying or the "fair use." For me, it's about watching the HD movies I pay for, on the HD player I pay for, in actual HD. Otherwise, what's the point?

I am a big proponent of "fair use" and find that it is becoming dismissed more and more everywhere and by more and more people.

Pretty soon, there won't be enough people to care.

For the average consumer, "fair use" has little impact or meaning.

But take away the rights of consumers to time-shift or otherwise record TV programs and movies, and manufacturers and studios will discover the market for their product is decidedly smaller than they expected. And ultimately the consumer electronics manufacturers, movie studios and broadcasters are going to have to feel real pain before they modify their high-handed behavior.

I have little doubt that Toshiba, Sony and the individual studios have already "overprojected" the impact of packaged HD format media on revenues in out years (2008, 2009, 2010). When those revenues fail to build in 2006 and 2007, they'll get serious about taking consumer needs and desires into account.

FWIW, I think that if one or both HD formats stall, there's no guarantee that traditional media like DVD will make up the difference. In fact, I'd say that failure of these new formats will poison the old media as well, particularly for hardware, but I think the impact would be felt for software, too.

As more consumers learn there's something potentially better out there, they'll avoid yesterday's technology as if it's a bucket of bird flu virus.

When you extend "fair use" to making backup copies, for yourself and no one else, I think "fair use" has more and more of an impact on the average consumer.

What was with the No Signal Lock message that clipped the opening scene of CSI last night? I'm guessing it was the network and not local. I have D* using OTA. Did E*or cable users see it too?

I noticed the same message with OTA and D*. I just switched to SD for the first few minutes. ***note to self: turn down volume before switching to SD***
I watched the playback this morning, recorded off CBSHD-NY Dish SAT feed, and saw no signal loss.

I think the majority of people like us want the ability to have a media server where all entertainment media is stored. This lessens the problem of hunting for one of your damaged disks. This is especially true if you have grandchildren who can't seem to put it back in the container and the container back on the shelf. :(

Then there are others who want to back up THEIR media. These people would be better served by HDMI/HDCP if the distributers would give you a warranty against damage for some period of time. :eek:

Fat Chance.

I wonder when they are going to realize the benefits of the internet and new formats should be designed for DOWNLOADING. What a savings if you could sell movies without the cost of disks, manufacturing, shipping, billing, and all related support personal necessary to distribute to the public.

The people in the industry need to get a brain.

Walt

I noticed the same message with OTA and D*. I just switched to SD for the first few minutes. ***note to self: turn down volume before switching to SD***

All I got on SD with Charter was about 8 to 10 seconds of no audio.

FWIW, I think that if one or both HD formats stall, there's no guarantee that traditional media like DVD will make up the difference. In fact, I'd say that failure of these new formats will poison the old media as well, particularly for hardware, but I think the impact would be felt for software, too.

As more consumers learn there's something potentially better out there, they'll avoid yesterday's technology as if it's a bucket of bird flu virus.

DVD hardware and software sales have begun a steady decline. Homes already have multiple DVD players and software sales are well below expectations. The content providers and the manufacturers both were looking forward to HD to reinvigorate sales. With the unwillingness to give consumers a unified HD format (ala DVD), the consumer electronics companies have shot themselves in the foot. The content providers have shot the other foot with severe DRM demands.

Places like Best Buy and Circuit City are going to have monster return issues and ill will from consumers bringing back HD-DVD disks that won't play in their BluRay players and vice versa (or bringing back their expensive HD-DVD or BluRay players themselves because they won't play half of what's out there).

The content providers dragged their feet on HD versions of material so that they could milk the SD DVD for all its worth. (I've read statements from studio reps stating this overtly. It's not a conspiracy theory.) Remember that DVD was released at about the same time as the introduction of high definition in this country. I was saying years ago to anyone who was willing to listen (not too many were) that DVD was nothing but an interim format until HD DVD came around. Even today, such a poor job has been done to educate people about HD that many if not most still think that their DVD collections ARE high definition. If we think people are confused now, just wait until we try to explain HD disks to them. That'll be a 1000 yard stare.

Joe,

All true, and most people think they are watching HDTV when they are not simply because they bought a HDTV at Sam's Club. I asked my Mom how she liked her new DLP and D* HD box? She said it's very pretty. Well, it would not surprise me at all if they have spent $4K, and haven't seen HD on it yet. Most of the general public is completely lost when it comes to all this stuff. HD DVD's will only confuse them more.

Scott

Joe,

All true, and most people think they are watching HDTV when they are not simply because they bought a HDTV at Sam's Club. I asked my Mom how she liked her new DLP and D* HD box? She said it's very pretty. Well, it would not surprise me at all if they have spent $4K, and haven't seen HD on it yet. Most of the general public is completely lost when it comes to all this stuff. HD DVD's will only confuse them more.

Scott

Well there are alot of folks waiting for a Charter HD STB who obviously want to know the difference. I think KSDK news upgrading to HD has done more locally to make middle age (age 40-60) people realize HD even exists. This is probably the most watched program in this age group and I think many of them went out and bought HD sets.

A reminder to all Cardinals baseball and HDTV fans:

Today's KPLR broadcast of the Reds-Cardinals game will be available in HD. The game is available on Charter channel 781 and over-the-air via 26-1 (11-1).

Air time is 1 p.m. CDT.

A reminder to all Cardinals baseball and HDTV fans:

Today's KPLR broadcast of the Reds-Cardinals game will be available in HD. The game is available on Charter channel 781 and over-the-air via 26-1 (11-1).

Air time is 1 p.m. CDT.

Thanks for the heads up Doug. This year I decided I want to follow the Cards more closely having just moved back here. It's very confusing as to what channel it's on. So there is 11 and FSNM and ESPN?? :confused: Or just 11 and Fox Sports Midwest? I looked around stlcardinals.com a bit and must be blind as I didn't see a list of all locally broadcast games and the corresponding channel.

I already missed one game. :(

Joe,

All true, and most people think they are watching HDTV when they are not simply because they bought a HDTV at Sam's Club. I asked my Mom how she liked her new DLP and D* HD box? She said it's very pretty. Well, it would not surprise me at all if they have spent $4K, and haven't seen HD on it yet. Most of the general public is completely lost when it comes to all this stuff. HD DVD's will only confuse them more.

Scott

Sounds just like my parents. I commented on them a few weeks back. They bought a nice 60" HDTV almost 2yrs ago, right after I moved away. I wasn't here to hold their hand and Best Buy bent them over with a ton of Monster cables, not even the ones they needed. They even paid to have them hook the thing up (which they did a terrible job of). My Dad's SD cable box was hooked up a thin RF cable to their DVD recorder.... which had analog audio going to their 5.1 DD receiver. The DVD recorder at least had component running to the HDTV, but progressive scan wasn't enabled. The HDTV has a built in tuner, but they never bothered to hook up a $20 antenna to it until I arrived last month.

The entire time I was in Tampa and Houston, my Dad would tell me how good HDTV shows look and how he loves his new setup with surround sound. The whole time, he was watching SD shows stretched out, with stereo sound.

Orb Place Shifting for Tivo Series2
Free DVR everywhere download

Posted on 2006-04-14 10:17:07

Sling Box isn't the only solution for place shifting (watching your home TV via broadband someplace else). Orb Networks has a free suite of software dubbed DVR Everywhere (http://www.orb.com/dvreverywhere/) that now enables users to access their TiVo Series 2 DVRs while they are on the road, bus, or sitting in the park (see press release (http://sev.prnewswire.com/consumer-electronics/20060413/SFTH02013042006-1.html#)).

So there is 11 and FSNM and ESPN?? :confused: Or just 11 and Fox Sports Midwest?

There's 4 possible stations actually (5 if you count WGN when playing the Cubs, but I'd rather watch our broadcasters). The one you missed is FOX (2). FOX will have the Cardinals on occasion this year for nationally televised games. The large majority of the games (ie. non-nationally televised games) will be on either KPLR (11) or FSN Midwest.

I just set my Tivo to record anything with "Cardinals" in the title, with an "event" description, and it grabs them all. :)

Mo,
On the schedule, it shows which is televising each game:
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=stl
As a general rule, FSNMW has the weekday games, KPLR (WB11) has the weekend games, and ESPN and "big" FOX (network) combined, have 11 games scattered throughout the season.

Well there are alot of folks waiting for a Charter HD STB who obviously want to know the difference. I think KSDK news upgrading to HD has done more locally to make middle age (age 40-60) people realize HD even exists. This is probably the most watched program in this age group and I think many of them went out and bought HD sets.

I'm right smack in the middle of that age group. But since my background is in IT I wasn't starting from scratch as much as Joe Six-Pack. Even though I Google big purchases to death and remembered AVS existed before buying my set I was still a bit overwhelmed.

I can empathize with those who are confused or even clueless.

I just set my Tivo to record anything with "Cardinals" in the title, with an "event" description, and it grabs them all. :)

Thanks for the tip Jon. Good tip! That will solve it.

KDG, thanks for the link.

Thanks for the heads up Doug. This year I decided I want to follow the Cards more closely having just moved back here. It's very confusing as to what channel it's on. So there is 11 and FSNM and ESPN?? :confused: Or just 11 and Fox Sports Midwest? I looked around stlcardinals.com a bit and must be blind as I didn't see a list of all locally broadcast games and the corresponding channel.

I already missed one game. :(Yeah, this can be a bit confusing, but here's a general guide that should help.

* For the most part, games on Monday through Friday will appear on Fox Sport Midwest. I know you have DirecTV, so that's channel 647 for you.

* For the most part, weekend games (Saturday and Sunday) will appear on KPLR. When that's a standard-def game, it's channel 11 via DirecTV and when it's HD as it is today, it will be 26-1 (11-1), over the air.

* ESPN does baseball games during the week at varioud times and days, but the main games are Wednesday evening and Sunday evening. If the Cards are selected for the Wednesday game, then ESPN will be "blacked out" locally, as Fox Sports Midwest has exclusive rights during its games. When the Cards are selected for the Sunday night game, there is no "black out," as ESPN has a national exclusive for games starting after a certain time on Sundays.

* There is one minor exception to the local blackout rules, though I'm not sure WHY it's an exception. When the Cards play either Atlanta or Chicago and the games are broadcast on the Chicago superstation (WGN) or the Atlanta superstation (TBS), those games are NOT blacked out, and you therefore have a choice of watching the local broadcast or the out-of-town play-by-play.

Personally, it's all I can bear to listen to McLaughlin and Hrabosky four or five times a week for a 6-month stretch, so whenever I have the chance to watch the WGN or TBS broadcasts, I'm there. So, whatever the cause for the local blackout exception, color me grateful. :)

Note that there are some exceptions to how FSMW and KPLR divvy up the schedule. It seems that whenever KPLR loses a Sunday broadcast to ESPN, they usually get a weekday game to compensate. A lot of times it seems they will do this on a Friday or a Monday (particularly holiday Mondays), as it probably simplifies the logistics for the announcers and their support crews. But sometimes they get a weekday daytime game instead.

Edit: Yeah, I forgot the national FOX Saturday games. These generally start sometime in June, and unless the Cards play in the evening, those Saturday afternoon games will appear on the FOX Network (KTVI). In most cases, these games are shown in "FOX Widescreen" on the digital channel, but hopefully at some point those will be HD broadcasts.

Well there are alot of folks waiting for a Charter HD STB who obviously want to know the difference. I think KSDK news upgrading to HD has done more locally to make middle age (age 40-60) people realize HD even exists. This is probably the most watched program in this age group and I think many of them went out and bought HD sets.

I think you're right. It's recognizable evidence of a major paradigm shift in thinking about HD. That's one reason I was so happy to see it happen. Eventually, others have to follow. They'll make a lot of fuss about it. Then others will do it. Eventually, the ones who aren't in HD will be the exception. By then, most people will have grown accustomed to HD and they'll see that, somehow, the SD broadcasts don't look quite right. After decades of looking at regular TV and thinking it's good enough, their perceptions will be adjusted.

Hopefully at that point KSDK will have had to clear up the problems that it has, such as the bit-stealing weather channel that causes macroblocking at shot chnages and during fast motion. They'll have to change because the competition will be making a big deal about how their picture quality is better.

How come the Blues game is listed on WB11 today on their schedule via Blues Webpage? My Moxi menu says its the Cards game! I WANT HOCKEY!

:-)

Oh never mind its at 7pm. I had a shedule (in my brain) that thought it was a 1pm game today. Please ignore me, hehe.

Sounds just like my parents. .......

The entire time I was in Tampa and Houston, my Dad would tell me how good HDTV shows look and how he loves his new setup with surround sound. The whole time, he was watching SD shows stretched out, with stereo sound.


Which begs the question I have faced... If they're happy with it, should I really change it all on them?

Of course, they're not getting their money's worth out of their equipment, but on the other hand they're happy and know how to work everything.

I have fixed thigns for mine a couple of times and they were happier with the previous (in my view clearly poorer) setup.

Son of a .....

The game looked very, very nice in HD -- then we had a "severe" weather alert.

Is the Cards game being broadcast in DD 5.1?

Chuck

Is the Cards game being broadcast in DD 5.1?

Chuck


It does not appear to be.

Do we have any confirmed sightings of the Toshiba HD-DVD player in the St. Louis metro area yet? Several people have already picked up players at Best Buy in other states.

It does not appear to be.

Its showing up as Dolby Digital on mine, but only Pro-Logic, not 5.1 =[

However, I think the picture quality is very good, but I'll leave that to others who are much more astute regarding pic quality.

I personally don't see the need for 5.1 sound in sporting events - its not like there are any great surround effects happening. But I must say, the volume level is horrible, I'm having to crank the receiver up to hear the game, then the commercials kill me. Get it right!

Hearing the roar of the crowd or the PA announcer in the rears is quite cool to me.

You're right about the commercial volume as opposed to the telecast's volume.

Do we have any confirmed sightings of the Toshiba HD-DVD player in the St. Louis metro area yet? Several people have already picked up players at Best Buy in other states.
Yes the Best Buy in Richmond Hights had one left at 3:00 today

It is a problem KPLR had last season on HD broadcasts, and did NOTHING to correct for todays broadcast. Plus the Wayne Hagan, Rick Horton broadcast combo is very sleep inducive.

I personally don't see the need for 5.1 sound in sporting events - its not like there are any great surround effects happening.
Surround sound isn't just about "effects." It's also about ambience. I think surround sound for motorspsorts is great. Adds a bit of realism to watching races on TV. Now if they could add the smell of burning brakes that would be something.

The Cards game today looked good when nobody was moving. When the camera panned, it was a macroblock festival on my projector. Did anyone else have this issue? I've had the same thing happen with KSDK during HD broadcasts (since their weather sub-channel was added), on Fox and on the WB. I haven't had the issue on KDNL at all and I can't recall a time on KMOV. I can't understand the excuse for a low bitrate broadcast on any channel here in St. Louis except for KSDK (weather channel stealing bits) or KETC (4 sub-channels).

Surround sound isn't just about "effects." It's also about ambience. I think surround sound for motorspsorts is great. Adds a bit of realism to watching races on TV. Now if they could add the smell of burning brakes that would be something.


I'll go to the game for that ambience. Just does nothing for me at home. I've watched Football and heard crowd noise from the rears and really thought "eh, big deal."

I'll go to the game for that ambience. Just does nothing for me at home. I've watched Football and heard crowd noise from the rears and really thought "eh, big deal."

Speaking of going to the games. I went to the new ballpark for the first time last night. Although we lost it did not take away from the beauty of the park. I was really impressed by the clearness of the colored scoreboard in center field. All the colored scoreboards had very good PQ although the thin one right above right field had too much red. Just like the red push in my MTS. Again the colors were bright and sharp really looked good. Just like watching at home.

Yeah the macroblocking was bad when there was fast movement but the picture was decent most of the time. As for the sound, if it is done right it is amazing to me what it adds to the game. U.S. Open Tennis is a great example, I can hear the feet and the ball going from side to side.

Chuck

I'll go to the game for that ambience. Just does nothing for me at home. I've watched Football and heard crowd noise from the rears and really thought "eh, big deal."


"Is that all there is my friend?
Then let's go dancing,
let's break out a beer and have a ball
if that's all.....there is".

How jaded. (forgot the smiley)

Walt

The wildly swinging volume levels have been a problem with KPLR-DT for a couple of years now. And it's not just with baseball games. I do the same lunging for the volume down button whenever Smallville and Supernatural go to commercials, too.

Which begs the question I have faced... If they're happy with it, should I really change it all on them?

Of course, they're not getting their money's worth out of their equipment, but on the other hand they're happy and know how to work everything.

I have fixed thigns for mine a couple of times and they were happier with the previous (in my view clearly poorer) setup.

With my parents (69 and 62) they could tell a huge difference after I installed an attic antenna for them. Most of what they watch is network TV anyway (most of which is in HD) and they kinda felt silly that they hadn't hooked it up correctly. I had my Dad pick up a pair of optical audio cables at Sam's Club to hook up the TV and DVD player to his DD5.1 receiver the correct way, and he was blown away after I played a DD5.1 demo DVD for him. Here they bought thousands of dollars of new home theater equipment, and a $20 antenna and $10 audio cable were the only things holding them back.

Speaking of going to the games. I went to the new ballpark for the first time last night. Although we lost it did not take away from the beauty of the park. I was really impressed by the clearness of the colored scoreboard in center field. All the colored scoreboards had very good PQ although the thin one right above right field had too much red. Just like the red push in my MTS. Again the colors were bright and sharp really looked good. Just like watching at home.


I went to the exhibition game and the scoreboard is hard to read when the sun is beating down on it. Night games it looks great I'm sure.

Cable Industry Slowed by Shortage of HD Receivers

The newspaper says Charter cable subscribers are being told that they can not subscribe to a high-def package now because there is a shortage of HD receivers. Customers were told that there's a waiting list of 800 people.


In all fairness, I think D* is having a slightly different issue. They may have new units available but I was told the reason it took 6 days to receive my refurbished HD-DVR was due to "low stock". I was first told I would recieve my replacement in 3 days.

As far as the newspaper goes, I think it's pretty cool to have the article about HD DVD players on the front page of the Sunday Post. For a minute I thought I was back in Silicon Valley looking at the SF Chronicle. ;)

Sounds just like my parents. I commented on them a few weeks back. They bought a nice 60" HDTV almost 2yrs ago, right after I moved away. I wasn't here to hold their hand and Best Buy bent them over with a ton of Monster cables, not even the ones they needed. They even paid to have them hook the thing up (which they did a terrible job of). My Dad's SD cable box was hooked up a thin RF cable to their DVD recorder.... which had analog audio going to their 5.1 DD receiver. The DVD recorder at least had component running to the HDTV, but progressive scan wasn't enabled. The HDTV has a built in tuner, but they never bothered to hook up a $20 antenna to it until I arrived last month.

The entire time I was in Tampa and Houston, my Dad would tell me how good HDTV shows look and how he loves his new setup with surround sound. The whole time, he was watching SD shows stretched out, with stereo sound.

My point exactly Jon. Every time I go to family or friends homes something is not set up correctly with their stuff. I would say your parents are in the majority unfortunately. Their is still so much misinformation. Yesterday at work one of my coworkers said he would never by a plasma because he didn't want to have to "recharge" it. I told him stop going to the store that told him that or at least stop seeing that salesperson. Technology has changed so much in the last few years it's no wonder the average person hasn't a clue. The newest thing will be people buying HD-DVD players, and hooking them up to their TV's with component video thinking they are watching HD when they are not. This is the reason I won't go get one by the way. My projector doesn't even have DVI let alone HDMI. Way to go HD-DVD and BD. You know they screwed up when early adopters like me won't invest even when the players are less than my first SD DVD player was back in the day. Oh well, rant over...

Scott

Plus the Wayne Hagan, Rick Horton broadcast combo is very sleep inducive.


But anything is better than Dan and Al....even two cats fighting!

For a minute I thought I was back in Silicon Valley looking at the SF Chronicle. ;)

Really? I've lived in San Francisco, South San Francisco, San Mateo, Milpitas, and San Jose. Had the southern pattern going but some how I made a left turn. Still have family up north in Roseville, Red Bluff and Cottonwood.

Loved doing crossword puzzles at work. My apprentice's fist job every night was to find the Chronicle, Examiner, Oakland Tribune and the San Jose Mercury. That gave us 5 puzzles every night.


By the way, HAPPY EASTER everyone.

Walt

The newest thing will be people buying HD-DVD players, and hooking them up to their TV's with component video thinking they are watching HD when they are not. This is the reason I won't go get one by the way. My projector doesn't even have DVI let alone HDMI. Way to go HD-DVD and BD. You know they screwed up when early adopters like me won't invest even when the players are less than my first SD DVD player was back in the day. Oh well, rant over...


Yeah, I saw the HD-DVD player in Best Buy's ad this morning. No way am I going to buy one (and I was a very early adopter of DVD as well) until the rental stores carry all of the major titles on HD-DVD (with multiple copies as well) and without bending you over on the rental cost (anymore than they do for regular DVD). I'm guessing that will be 5-7yrs off still, if ever.

It took forever to rid those rental places of VHS, just think how long it will be to transitition to HD-DVD. I just can't see it happening. It would mean that the overwhelming majority of their customer base not only has a HDTV, but also a HD-DVD player. Hell, that might be more like 10yrs.

I remember getting my first DVD player about 10yrs ago. You could barely find any titles for it. The DVD section at Best Buy could fit in a coat closet. Blockbuster didn't have rentals for a long time. Then you end up buying titles to watch them on DVD instead of VHS, and the movies sucked. Then you were stuck with a $25 movie that you didn't want anymore.

The newest thing will be people buying HD-DVD players, and hooking them up to their TV's with component video thinking they are watching HD when they are not. This is the reason I won't go get one by the way. My projector doesn't even have DVI let alone HDMI. Way to go HD-DVD and BD. You know they screwed up when early adopters like me won't invest even when the players are less than my first SD DVD player was back in the day. Oh well, rant over...

Scott HD-DVD will output 720p and 1080i via component video cables.

HD-DVD will output 720p and 1080i via component video cables.

They claim they will now for early titles, but the oprtion is still there for them to throttle down the resolution for any title they want to in the future. Even if they don't, the other big issue that makes buying now a problem is the lack of compatibility between HD-DVD and BluRay.

Here are the bare minimum conditions for me to buy into the newer technology.

1. A reasonably priced universal player that will handle HD-DVD, BluRay, regular DVD and CD.
2. A regular flow of titles at reasonable cost.

Given the current climate, that could be a long time from now. DVD was wildly successful (it set records). But, it didn't have a format war to contend with and all the major studios were behind it.

For the next few months, a new player will yield very little benefit. One thing about having your own home theater is, it gives you a little patience. I used to have to get to the theater as soon as a movie hit town. Now, the benefits of home viewing mean I am willing to wait. My pop IQ has gone down, but I've saved enough in movie theater going costs to pay for much of my home theater.

I think the HD-DVD/Blue-Ray intro is a non-event. For me the show stopper is having two incompatable formats & the fact they have mechanisms in place to prevent/restrict fair use. The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I agree with virtually all that you guys have said regarding HD-DVD and BluRay but I have one more thing to add.

Personally, I guess I just don't like movies that much. I love television shows particularly episodic dramas such as 24, LOST, Law & Order, etc. but I just don't have the same passion for movies these days. In my view, most of them suck.

I'll gladly pay out for a nice, big HDTV, surround sound and (soon) pay a large sum for DirecTV's HD content but I have zero desire to pay the type of money we're talking to HD-DVD or BluRay players or media. The format war doesn't matter to me. It could be one single format and I'd still have no interest for a long, long time.

I agree with virtually all that you guys have said regarding HD-DVD and BluRay but I have one more thing to add.

Personally, I guess I just don't like movies that much. I love television shows particularly episodic dramas such as 24, LOST, Law & Order, etc. but I just don't have the same passion for movies these days. In my view, most of them suck.

I'll gladly pay out for a nice, big HDTV, surround sound and (soon) pay a large sum for DirecTV's HD content but I have zero desire to pay the type of money we're talking to HD-DVD or BluRay players or media. The format war doesn't matter to me. It could be one single format and I'd still have no interest for a long, long time.


Much like the good episodic shows that come on network T.V. now. The new HD-DVD/Blu Ray titles will draw you into the picture by its realism and vibrant colors. I too was ready to sit this format war out but I saw the demo of King Kong at American TV in Fenton and I just might buy a player when they are more readily available. The thing I like about OTA Hd broadcast is how detailed and how much more information I am able to get out of the scene as opposed to SD. The same is true of HD-DVD/Blu Ray. I've yet to see anything broadcast that looked as good as the clip I saw of King Kong.

I'll be the second one to say Happy Easter.

I've got a gripe with FOX. (yeah, who doesn't? The network). FOX uses the term "FOX Widscreen High Definition" on FOX programs. Can anybody actually tell which ones are high-def and which ones aren't? Until Doug mentioned it on the previous page, I hadn't really given it any thought. Now I'm a little peeved because I thought a few shows were in High-Def, but are really just prettied-up SD widescreen? Arrgh!

Question about those with Media Center PCs:

HDTV Equipment: Toshiba Qosmio G15-AV501, vBox Cat's Eye USB-A-3560

http://akamai.edeal.com/images/catalog800/folder590/img674045.jpghttp://www.pctuner.ru/pict/news/vbox_hdtv.jpg
I've got a vBox Cat's Eye HDTV tuner, and I'm having issues with 5.1 broadcast programs (like CSI: Miami, or Law & Order, or The Evidence...the like) where I can hear great ambient sounds, but dialog audio is so quiet, I can barely hear it without turning it up really high (no center channel audio). Any ideas, tips, trick, etc. to help me out with this?

The Cards game today looked good when nobody was moving. When the camera panned, it was a macroblock festival on my projector. Did anyone else have this issue? I've had the same thing happen with KSDK during HD broadcasts (since their weather sub-channel was added), on Fox and on the WB. I haven't had the issue on KDNL at all and I can't recall a time on KMOV. I can't understand the excuse for a low bitrate broadcast on any channel here in St. Louis except for KSDK (weather channel stealing bits) or KETC (4 sub-channels).Joe,

Any chance you can reference one or two specific points in the game where you saw a lot of pixellation?

After reading your post, I went back late last night and looked at parts of the game via my TiVo and the only time was able to readily detect pixellation was during the "exploding Redbird" KPLR uses as a transition device between instant replays and live action.

It's a bit challenging to find scenes with a lot of motion in baseball, but I checked a couple of different shots where the camera was panning as it followed a player moving.

One that I looked at was Pujols trotting down to first base after a walk, and even in slow-motion the pixellation wasn't obvious. I also checked his home run trot and I noticed some strange artifacts as he's running from third to home, but I don't think this was pixellation. What I noticed here was what I'd call vertical noise or vertical flicker. I've never actually noticed this before, but it was pretty obvious and quite distracting, both in real-time and slow motion.

So anyway, if you have a chance let me know some shots where you saw pixellation. And if you have a moment, check out the home run trot and let me know if you see something similar to what I described above.

I'll be the second one to say Happy Easter.

I've got a gripe with FOX. (yeah, who doesn't? The network). FOX uses the term "FOX Widscreen High Definition" on FOX programs. Can anybody actually tell which ones are high-def and which ones aren't? Until Doug mentioned it on the previous page, I hadn't really given it any thought. Now I'm a little peeved because I thought a few shows were in High-Def, but are really just prettied-up SD widescreen? Arrgh!kj,

I don't watch a huge amount of FOX programming, but I don't think they're mislabeling or misrepresenting what they are showing. If a program is labeled as "FOX Widescreen High Definition," I think's safe to asume these are true HD presentations.

I think the only time you're likely to see FOX Widescreen (SD) is during live sports and I think these are pretty few in number. I suspect that baseball gets the FOX Widescreen treatment because of the generally smaller audiences that a Saturday afternoon game in June or July will attract, and the fact that about half the time the games shown are regionally targetted, rather than national, which further fragments an already small audience (at least compared to a regular season NFL game).

To summarize, FOX Widescreen is video that has been acquired with 480-line interlaced NTSC cameras in a widescreen format. The 480i widescreen picture is then line-doubled/de-interlaced to 480p and then scaled to 720p.

The main flaw in this approach is the fact that video images that are acquired in interlaced mode are EXTRMELY difficult to deinterlace, unlike film sources such as standard-def DVD.

For me, this is the main reason that FOX Widescreen failed so spectacularly. If video images had been acquired with 480p-capable cameras, I think the results would have been pretty good, though still well short of HD quality. But the whole point of FOX Widescreen was to use existing NTSC equipment to keep costs down. Once this failed in the market, FOX embraced HD (720p) and I think overall they have done a great job when they do true HD productions.

While FOX Widescreen sucks, it is at least marginally better than 4x3 NTSC...

HD-DVD will output 720p and 1080i via component video cables.

You keep saying this Tom, but your the only one I know who thinks so. Of all the people on this forum that bought them over the last few days, I have yet to find one who says it will output HD via component. In fact, many have flat out said it will not. Do you have any concrete evidence to your claim? Help.

Scott

Tom Grooms said
HD-DVD will output 720p and 1080i via component video cables.

-----------------------------------
In the new HD-DVD Forum there are about 29 pages of messages within the first couple of days -- although I have only scanned a few pages thought there were some comments indicating that the upconverting using component was not possible on the HD-DVD version of The Last Samurai.

jim

edit addition from Page 3 HD-DVD Forum:

Originally Posted by Rockokma
One sec...

480p

When I try to change the resolution any higher on DVD it says High resolution output is Prohibited with this contet.

Exactly, Gelcoatman. I have yet to see any credible proof that I will be able to see HD-DVD in HD on my Sharp XV-Z9000 with only component video. If it would work, I would at least think about getting a player. Hell, I'd even by it from Tom. But I think i'll wait it out and see what developes.

Scott

Joe,

Any chance you can reference one or two specific points in the game where you saw a lot of pixellation?

After reading your post, I went back late last night and looked at parts of the game via my TiVo and the only time was able to readily detect pixellation was during the "exploding Redbird" KPLR uses as a transition device between instant replays and live action.

It's a bit challenging to find scenes with a lot of motion in baseball, but I checked a couple of different shots where the camera was panning as it followed a player moving.

One that I looked at was Pujols trotting down to first base after a walk, and even in slow-motion the pixellation wasn't obvious. I also checked his home run trot and I noticed some strange artifacts as he's running from third to home, but I don't think this was pixellation. What I noticed here was what I'd call vertical noise or vertical flicker. I've never actually noticed this before, but it was pretty obvious and quite distracting, both in real-time and slow motion.

So anyway, if you have a chance let me know some shots where you saw pixellation. And if you have a moment, check out the home run trot and let me know if you see something similar to what I described above.

I saw several instances of macroblocking during shot changes, but I've already erased the game from my 921, so I can't go back and check for sure. I know what you mean about Pujols' home run trot from third to home. I'm not sure what this effect is, but it's disconcerting. The macroblocking I'm talking about was quite obvious to me. I might think it was my projector at fault, but I had a couple of other AVSers over who noticed similar macroblocking effects during an episode of Smallville that we watched, recorded OTA. Bob said the same macroblocking was visible on his HD Tivo, too. During most episodes of Bones and House, I see the macroblocking right at shot changes. At the end of one shot, it manifests itself as a breakup of the beginning of the next shot. The shot starts out as as large blocks that quickly resolve into fine detail. The whole effect takes just a fraction of a second, but it's annoying and unnecessary. I've never seen it happen on KDNL (thanks, Jim). Lost and Desperate Housewives are great examples of how good HD can really look.

I agree with virtually all that you guys have said regarding HD-DVD and BluRay but I have one more thing to add.

Personally, I guess I just don't like movies that much. I love television shows particularly episodic dramas such as 24, LOST, Law & Order, etc. but I just don't have the same passion for movies these days. In my view, most of them suck.

I'll gladly pay out for a nice, big HDTV, surround sound and (soon) pay a large sum for DirecTV's HD content but I have zero desire to pay the type of money we're talking to HD-DVD or BluRay players or media. The format war doesn't matter to me. It could be one single format and I'd still have no interest for a long, long time.

I'm still a pretty big movie fan, but I am in the same camp. I think there is more entertainment value in a week of broadcast television than there is in a year of typical movie releases. Of course, when I used to say that to some of my students, you'd think I just spit in their faces.

Entertainment Weekly just ran an article echoing this sentiment a couple or three issues ago. Add to that the fact that you can do things in episodic television that you can't in movies - story and character development over an entire season can be so much more engaging than what can be done in a two hour film.

Exactly, Gelcoatman. I have yet to see any credible proof that I will be able to see HD-DVD in HD on my Sharp XV-Z9000 with only component video. If it would work, I would at least think about getting a player. Hell, I'd even by it from Tom. But I think i'll wait it out and see what developes.

Scott


http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/27/universal-wont-downsample-hd-dvd-content/

Check there, and they have links to other articles about it.

Stupid question here (particularly coming from me who has professed he won't buy one for awhile)... are there any HD-DVD films out now that coincide w/ the release of the Toshiba HD-DVD player?

I didn't see any advertised with it in the Best Buy ad, not that that necessarily means anything.

Kjohnson

Sounds like a software issue. Does your audio decoder support 5.1 We sometimes get complaints of no audio at all when users do not have a 5.1 decoder. Try downloading a demo of some PVR program that has a good decoder and use that, or buy one.

Shimon

VBox Communications.

BTW nice picture of the Cat's Eye USB tuner.

Stupid question here (particularly coming from me who has professed he won't buy one for awhile)... are there any HD-DVD films out now that coincide w/ the release of the Toshiba HD-DVD player?

I didn't see any advertised with it in the Best Buy ad, not that that necessarily means anything.

There are a handful of titles, including The Last Samurai. I think officially they aren't supposed to go on sale until Tuesday, but some people have found a way to get a few titles.

Toshiba HD-DVD
---------------------
Have just finished reading all of the about 1000 posts regarding this new player. There were a couple of messages from someone in StL that bought the player at a local Best Buy [new member - only 4 posts] but is returning it.

Apparently only selected Best Buys and a store in Scarsdale NY have received shipments. Best Buy expects to have stock in all stores within 2-3 weeks. The inital production is being done in Japan [25 pounds]. Wal-Mart expects to have them in stock by next weekend [RCA branded made in China - 12 pounds].

Officially the first HD-DVDs are not to be released until this Tuesday - but some Best Buys have sold them with the players anyway [although many will not sell them until Tuesday].

This week there will be 3 HD-DVDs released. The Last Samurai, Phantom of the Opera, and Serenity. Also, there is a Toshiba demo disk that are to be used for the store displays.

Upcoming releases can be found at =

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/hi-def-releases.html [Million Dollar Baby's release originally for this week has now been delayed]

While the official line may be that SD upconverting over component will not be blocked, the fact is that most of those reporting have said they are being blocked.

It appears that the display you are using play an important part of the results you will receive. Apparently Best Buy is hooking it up to a Westinghouse display that have not impressed many. In general there seems to be a consensus that the overall pictures are an improvement once set up at home. Some WOWs but not many.

The set comes with an HDMI interconnect. While Best Buy is pushing Monster, the feeling seems to be that these are not required - and perhaps create/allow artifacts that degrade the picture.

There seems to be a lot of discussion about audio problems. The Dolby Digital + format is being used, but many with even high end Lexicon set-ups are having difficulty getting it to work. BTW there are analog 5.1 outputs along with coax and toslink.

Software patches are already available and can be expected in the future. Pictures show a motherboard with about 1 gig of memory and an NEC DVD drive,

Hope this helps

Jim

Thanks for the summary, Jim. Several good reasons in there to wait and see how things shake out.

You know, if they had come out with a single format, and the price had been $500 for the initial player, I'd be as happy as those guys in the HD-DVD threads. The demo at American a couple of weeks ago really was spectacular. I'm sure BluRay will be, too. The quality is what I have been waiting for a long time. Too bad they couldn't have created a standard disk format.

HD DVD + Best Buy + Westinghouse LCD

Yes, this has success writ all over it...

Will TiVo Seek Injunction Against DISH DVRs?

The article below, from today's SkyREPORT newsletter, looks at the possibility that TiVo will seek an injunction against DISH that would prevent the company from selling DVRs that a jury found infringe TiVo patents:
__________________________________________________

Given that the markets were closed Friday due to the Good Friday holiday, it was difficult gauging investor reaction to the patent infringement case involving EchoStar and TiVo.

Today could be a different matter, however, when the Street looks at the litigation win for TiVo, which convinced a federal jury in Texas that the satellite TV company infringed on its patented technology.

S&P wasted no time airing its opinion, downgrading EchoStar in a research note released Friday.

S&P's Tuna Amobi said the EchoStar downgrade "reflects our view of the surprisingly adverse, and swift jury verdict on the DVR patent suit."

Amobi added, "While the $73 million award is unlikely to hurt EchoStar's long-term finances, and a likely appeal could span years, we see possibly higher financial exposure on the court's unqualified finding of willfull patent infringement."

While the $73 million penalty is a big deal for some, others are eyeing TiVo's planned request for a permanent injunction that could impact EchoStar's DVR service.

"EchoStar has to be more concerned about a possible injunction and ultimately being forced into a licensing deal," said Ladenburg Thalmann analyst William Kidd. "EchoStar is trying to avoid licensing TiVo's technology on an on-going basis through a variety of processes, including an appeal, a separate suit of its own, as well as through a re-examination at the U.S. patent office that EchoStar hopes could invalidate TiVo's patents. These processes could take years to resolve.

"However, TiVo intends to seek an immediate injunction on EchoStar DVR sales, which could force EchoStar into an immediate agreement, if the judge agrees to act before EchoStar's appeal is decided. A licensing agreement would be an obvious but manageable negative," Kidd added, saying he thinks a licensing fee could be largely offset by incremental DVR fees.
__________________________________________________

To read more satellite TV industry news, go to www.skyreport.com

Toshiba HD-DVD
---------------------
Have just finished reading all of the about 1000 posts regarding this new player. There were a couple of messages from someone in StL that bought the player at a local Best Buy [new member - only 4 posts] but is returning it.

Apparently only selected Best Buys and a store in Scarsdale NY have received shipments. Best Buy expects to have stock in all stores within 2-3 weeks. The inital production is being done in Japan [25 pounds]. Wal-Mart expects to have them in stock by next weekend [RCA branded made in China - 12 pounds].

Officially the first HD-DVDs are not to be released until this Tuesday - but some Best Buys have sold them with the players anyway [although many will not sell them until Tuesday].

This week there will be 3 HD-DVDs released. The Last Samurai, Phantom of the Opera, and Serenity. Also, there is a Toshiba demo disk that are to be used for the store displays.

Upcoming releases can be found at =

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/hi-def-releases.html [Million Dollar Baby's release originally for this week has now been delayed]

While the official line may be that SD upconverting over component will not be blocked, the fact is that most of those reporting have said they are being blocked.

It appears that the display you are using play an important part of the results you will receive. Apparently Best Buy is hooking it up to a Westinghouse display that have not impressed many. In general there seems to be a consensus that the overall pictures are an improvement once set up at home. Some WOWs but not many.

The set comes with an HDMI interconnect. While Best Buy is pushing Monster, the feeling seems to be that these are not required - and perhaps create/allow artifacts that degrade the picture.

There seems to be a lot of discussion about audio problems. The Dolby Digital + format is being used, but many with even high end Lexicon set-ups are having difficulty getting it to work. BTW there are analog 5.1 outputs along with coax and toslink.

Software patches are already available and can be expected in the future. Pictures show a motherboard with about 1 gig of memory and an NEC DVD drive,

Hope this helps

Jim

I've not seen one item that indicates SD DVD can be output via component and I don't think there was any intention for this to happen (SD DVD limits output of upconverted signals to digital connections)

What I HAVE seen is that HD-DVD and BR hardware will not block HD signals via component by default. However SW companies can insert a flag on their media that will force down conversion over component. Again, this all pertains to High Definition media, not standard DVD's.

As one who has HDMI connections I will make a move once 1 of 2 things happen:
1. PlayStation 3 is released with BR.
2. Universal Player is released. Assuming #1 will happen at the end of this year, start of next year, I should be able to wait for 2nd or 3rd gen hardware (and hope that things have sorted themselves out)

In the meantime I'm waiting for Yamaha or Denon to release their new recievers with DD and DTS processing (along with HDMI switching).

H03 Error on Panasonic DVD player.

I have an off the subject question...Has anyone here experienced an H03 error on their Panasonic DVD player?

My player is about 5+ years old. I received the error the first time about a month ago. After shopping for new players and not finding anything I wanted to purchase, I decided to take it apart. I took the cover off and recovered the DVD from the tray. Then I vacuumed the inside and let it sit for a while. After about an hour, I put it back together and it worked. I didn't think much about it until I saw the error again last night.

I have done a search in the forum and internet, but couldn't find much about it except "Spindle error." It seems to be pretty common in Panasonic players. Anyone else have this experience?

Go Cards! (What's up with J. Encarnacion?)

Which begs the question I have faced... If they're happy with it, should I really change it all on them?

Of course, they're not getting their money's worth out of their equipment, but on the other hand they're happy and know how to work everything.

I have fixed thigns for mine a couple of times and they were happier with the previous (in my view clearly poorer) setup.

Winston -

I understand your dilemma completely. My Fiance's parents are the same way...They spent $2000+ on a "brand new 55" High Definition CRT TV set." Then the Cable guy hooked up the Moxi using Coax and ran the analog sound from the TV to the receiver. They bragged to everyone that they had HD and all the pictures and sounds were so wonderful. On top of that, They bought a DVD player and have it set to display on a 4X3 screen. So...everything is stretched.

I took an antenna to their house and explained to her Dad that they could have a better picture. After about 30 seconds we had connected the antenna and they were able to pull a few of the local stations. American Idol wowed them and we placed the antenna where it is out of the way and pulls all the locals. However, Every time I go over there, they are watching stretched TV. I worry about hooking the Moxi up via component because they'll have to use the "Component 1" input rather than the one that says "Cable." ...Maybe if we can clear this hump we can get them to pay 14.99 for DSL as opposed to $29.00 for unlimited minutes over dial up AOL.

Are we obligated to set things up properly for those we care about? Is the illusion of happiness better than the real thing?

HD DVD + Best Buy + Westinghouse LCD

Yes, this has success writ all over it...

Went to Bestbuy today to check ii out. They were playing a demo disc showing different clips. None of what I saw standing there watching for about 15 minutes looked very good at all. In fact, to me it looked like crap. If that is the display designed to get people to invest in HD-DVD, whoever's in charge of Bestbuys marketing floorplan design should be seriously talked to. That player should be connected to their best 1080p display and only showing the highest resolution HD-DVD's. Now I don't feel so bad about not getting one because what I already have looks better than what I saw.

Scott

H03 Error on Panasonic DVD player.

I have an off the subject question...Has anyone here experienced an H03 error on their Panasonic DVD player?

My player is about 5+ years old. I received the error the first time about a month ago. After shopping for new players and not finding anything I wanted to purchase, I decided to take it apart. I took the cover off and recovered the DVD from the tray. Then I vacuumed the inside and let it sit for a while. After about an hour, I put it back together and it worked. I didn't think much about it until I saw the error again last night.

I have done a search in the forum and internet, but couldn't find much about it except "Spindle error." It seems to be pretty common in Panasonic players. Anyone else have this experience?

Go Cards! (What's up with J. Encarnacion?)

For future reference, I wouldn't vacuum it, I'd blow it out. As far as the error goes, I have a panasonic and haven't seen it, sorry. You might want to see what kind of drive is in it, and see if you could find a replacement online.
Dug

HD-DVD - BB Bridgeton
----------------------------
Almost missed the endcap display. Westinghouse LCD, no receiver, no 5.1 speaker setup, playing a demo SD disk. They have not able to find or may not have received the HD-DVD demo disk. The guy I spoke with was not very savy, but agreed that it should be hooked up to a better display; also knew they could not sell the software until tomorrow. There will be an ad in tomorrows paper.

Another customer who has an older 50" plasma walked up and we had a nice discussion about HD. Mentioned he should visit us here. He was similarly unimpressed.

Jim

Hi Everyone! First time poster and I'm looking for some advice. I'm getting my first HD set soon and I'd like to be able to watch off air HD. I currently have an old crappy antenna mounted with fishing line in my attic but it doesn't pick up UHF signals very well.

My new TV will be located in my basement and I'll be running a new coax cable down to it. Should I get separate UHF antenna for this TV? I was also thinking of replacing the existing attic antenna with a larger, modern model. If I go that route, how big should I buy? Is this something I should have a professional install? (see fishing line installation comments above) ;)

I live in St. Peters. Subdivision. Ranch (single story) home. I have searched through this thread and read some good general tips but I was hoping for some personalized comments. Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

Hi Everyone! First time poster and I'm looking for some advice. I'm getting my first HD set soon and I'd like to be able to watch off air HD. I currently have an old crappy antenna mounted with fishing line in my attic but it doesn't pick up UHF signals very well.

My new TV will be located in my basement and I'll be running a new coax cable down to it. Should I get separate UHF antenna for this TV? I was also thinking of replacing the existing attic antenna with a larger, modern model. If I go that route, how big should I buy? Is this something I should have a professional install? (see fishing line installation comments above) ;)

I live in St. Peters. Subdivision. Ranch (single story) home. I have searched through this thread and read some good general tips but I was hoping for some personalized comments. Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

Welcome to the thread.

Being in St. Peters, you should do fine with a Channelmaster 4221. Many of us use it with great success. It's very simple to install, and I'd recommend putting it in the attic. Just replace the existing antenna with this one:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A

You can buy it locally from Skywalker Communications in O'Fallon (near Bryan/70) for less than the price on the website I linked (just call ahead to order it, and pick it up in the back of their warehouse, where the pro/installers get their stuff).

Also, you might be fine with your existing antenna, it could just need an adjustment (but you won't be able to figure that out until connecting it to your OTA HD tuner and getting a reading on the digital signal strength).

PS. Make sure you use quality shielded RG6 cable for that new coax run to the basement. You can buy it by the foot at Lowe's or Home Depot, they'll cut it to length for you.

Winston -

I understand your dilemma completely. My Fiance's parents are the same way...They spent $2000+ on a "brand new 55" High Definition CRT TV set." Then the Cable guy hooked up the Moxi using Coax and ran the analog sound from the TV to the receiver. They bragged to everyone that they had HD and all the pictures and sounds were so wonderful. On top of that, They bought a DVD player and have it set to display on a 4X3 screen. So...everything is stretched.

I took an antenna to their house and explained to her Dad that they could have a better picture. After about 30 seconds we had connected the antenna and they were able to pull a few of the local stations. American Idol wowed them and we placed the antenna where it is out of the way and pulls all the locals. However, Every time I go over there, they are watching stretched TV. I worry about hooking the Moxi up via component because they'll have to use the "Component 1" input rather than the one that says "Cable." ...Maybe if we can clear this hump we can get them to pay 14.99 for DSL as opposed to $29.00 for unlimited minutes over dial up AOL.

Are we obligated to set things up properly for those we care about? Is the illusion of happiness better than the real thing?

I've given up for now with a relative who won't take the steps to get HD up and running properly. The family got an HDTV (Toshiba CRT RPTV), but when I went over I saw they didn't have any HD sources. I mentioned that, and was told, "Oh, yes, we do. We have DVD." I said DVD is only SD. "Oh."

So, I gave them a HiPix card for one of their PCs (their a very computer literate family) and some cabling, and we hooked it up to their TV. I was moving to a MyHD, but the HiPix card still worked just fine. I helped them set up an indoor antenna they bought, but it only pulled in a couple of stations at a time. So, a few weeks later, after seeing they had disconnected even that, I bought them a new UHF antenna. We set it up (in a difficult area near the airport) and it was getting almost everything. All that was needed was to run the cable through the basement and up into the HiPix card. (Temporarily, we had run it in through a window.)

I upgraded to an Optoma H79 projector a few months ago. I decided to give the old Sharp 9000 to them. When I went over to help them hook everything up, I noticed the new antenna cable coiled up on the roof, still not run through the basement wall. "We never watch broadcast," they said.

I think I'll give it one more try in a few months, but I'm not hopeful. If I had time, I'd just go over and do it all myself.

You can lead a horse to water... .

Went to Bestbuy today to check ii out. They were playing a demo disc showing different clips. None of what I saw standing there watching for about 15 minutes looked very good at all. In fact, to me it looked like crap. If that is the display designed to get people to invest in HD-DVD, whoever's in charge of Bestbuys marketing floorplan design should be seriously talked to. That player should be connected to their best 1080p display and only showing the highest resolution HD-DVD's. Now I don't feel so bad about not getting one because what I already have looks better than what I saw.

Scott

Scott, if you were'nt impressed then I suspect very strongly that you weren't seeing HD on the deck, or the TV was set up very poorly, or both. I think it's a good idea not to buy into this technology right now, but it's not because I think the technology itself is bad. The demo I saw was far and away the best HD image I've ever seen. When the dust settles from all the things they've done wrong with these new formats, I'll buy. Right now, I think it's a waste of money.

Winston -
...
Are we obligated to set things up properly for those we care about? Is the illusion of happiness better than the real thing?

Yes and yes.....

If my parents were still alive they would have an HD set but it would have to be a sit-on-the-floor real wood console. :)

My father was in the wholesale side of TV and electronics from the 50s to the early 80s. Hey, we had one of the first color console RCA sets in the neighborhood. We even had a vacuum tube tester and repaired our own sets.

Toward the end with VCRs etc. the illusion was just fine but we are obligated to try. :o

Scott, if you were'nt impressed then I suspect very strongly that you weren't seeing HD on the deck, or the TV was set up very poorly, or both. I think it's a good idea not to buy into this technology right now, but it's not because I think the technology itself is bad. The demo I saw was far and away the best HD image I've ever seen. When the dust settles from all the things they've done wrong with these new formats, I'll buy. Right now, I think it's a waste of money.

Must of been a SD demo disc because it looked bad. It was connected with a HDMI cable. Bestbuy in St. Peters must of been selling the HD-DVD's because there were 20 or so sitting with the player priced at $29.00 ea. I'd say 15 blue shirted clerks walked past me while I was looking, and not one asked if I needed help. Obviously I didn't ask any questions. They did have one player in stock if one of you are crazy enough to buy it. Like you Joe, I will wait for the dust to settle and probably until I get a new projector before I invest in a player that may lose the format war.

Scott

I've given up for now with a relative who won't take the steps to get HD up and running properly. The family got an HDTV (Toshiba CRT RPTV), but when I went over I saw they didn't have any HD sources. I mentioned that, and was told, "Oh, yes, we do. We have DVD." I said DVD is only SD. "Oh."
...
You can lead a horse to water... .
I feel your pain. People who haven't done the kind of research we do may never get it. With reports on the HD-DVD display in Best Buy, its apparent the mass retailers who sell this stuff barely get it. Apparently the installers don't get it either. I'm not sure the manufacturers get it either, they probably use the excuse that they are only selling what people want. I couldn't believe how long it took for the complete transition to Hi-Fi VCRs to take place. All it takes is some research and investment in some training for the retailers and installers. Naaah!

HD-DVD - BB Bridgeton
----------------------------
Almost missed the endcap display. Westinghouse LCD, no receiver, no 5.1 speaker setup, playing a demo SD disk. They have not able to find or may not have received the HD-DVD demo disk. The guy I spoke with was not very savy, but agreed that it should be hooked up to a better display; also knew they could not sell the software until tomorrow. There will be an ad in tomorrows paper.

Another customer who has an older 50" plasma walked up and we had a nice discussion about HD. Mentioned he should visit us here. He was similarly unimpressed.

Jim


I saw the same setup at the Bridgeton store. BB must be trying to sabotage this thing because they could not have put it on a worse display if they tried. Horrible black levels and the display had a line running right down the middle. They of course could not find the HD demo disc and had to show SD demo. They seem to be using the westinghouse setup in several stores.............underhanded if you ask me.

FWIW, the Westinghouse LCDs that I'm familiar with have a major design defect in which they're only capable of producing around 75% of the SMPTE C- or the HDTV-specified color gamut -- this means that regardless of the source, colors are undersaturated and there's a large range of colors these panels physically cannot produce.

That actually makes this product suitable only for NTSC sources, as the NTSC signals have similar color constraints.

Also, when I think about the genius at Toshiba who decided it would be a good idea to use the Westinghouse brand for HDTV products (Toshiba recently purchased Westinghouse) the words that immediately come to mind are "2006 Darwin Award Nominee."

I live in High Ridge MO. Looking for a recommendation for an attic HD Antenna.
Thanks

I stopped by the south county Best Buy today to see how they had their HD DVD demo set up. It's located between the TVs and the audio section in a little cubby hole. It's a better arrangement than I expected to find. They have it connected to a 1280x768 (sorry, no 1080p) Pioneer plasma display (about 50", I think), with a surround system and a couple of plush black leather chairs about 7-8' from the screen. They had the three release titles (Phantom of the Opera, The Last Samurai, Serenity), but as of now they don't have an HD DVD demo disk. The sales person I spoke with apologized for the problem with the introduction of the format and said they couldn't break out one of the commercial disks because of legal restraints. They are expecting a demo disk in soon.

This may be one of the better viewing environments for those interested in the format, based on what I've read about the setups in other stores in the area. Once they get in a demo disk, that is.

The one question I have about the legal restraints is why is that an issue for the store when other stores have allowed me to bring in my own DVDs to check out projectors or players? Or is this just an excuse because they don't have the demo disks in now?

DishTim,

Welcome to the forum. You might start by heading to www.antennaweb.org that'll recommend the type of antenna you'll need based on your address. From there, you could try the channel master from a few posts back or head to http://www.antennasdirect.com/. The DB2, DB4, and Channelmaster are all based on the same technology.

If you have trouble after your initial setup, I'm sure the members here can help you out.

Happy HDing,

Adam

I stopped by the south county Best Buy today to see how they had their HD DVD demo set up. It's located between the TVs and the audio section in a little cubby hole. It's a better arrangement than I expected to find. They have it connected to a 1280x768 (sorry, no 1080p) Pioneer plasma display (about 50", I think), with a surround system and a couple of plush black leather chairs about 7-8' from the screen. They had the three release titles (Phantom of the Opera, The Last Samurai, Serenity), but as of now they don't have an HD DVD demo disk. The sales person I spoke with apologized for the problem with the introduction of the format and said they couldn't break out one of the commercial disks because of legal restraints. They are expecting a demo disk in soon.

This may be one of the better viewing environments for those interested in the format, based on what I've read about the setups in other stores in the area. Once they get in a demo disk, that is.

The one question I have about the legal restraints is why is that an issue for the store when other stores have allowed me to bring in my own DVDs to check out projectors or players? Or is this just an excuse because they don't have the demo disks in now?

I don't claim to be a lawyer and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I can't understand how a demo of one of the new titles would be against any laws or agreements with the software providers. They can get into trouble for selling it prior to the street date however.

Scott

Is the picture quality from HD-DVD or Blue Ray the same that I currently get with HBO HD and Showtime HD movies? Is there any reason to expect it to be even better?

Is the picture quality from HD-DVD or Blue Ray the same that I currently get with HBO HD and Showtime HD movies? Is there any reason to expect it to be even better?


I saw the HD-DVD setup at American TV on a 1080P Toshiba DLP. In this viewing environment the XA-1 was INCREDIBLE!! It looked better then anything I've seen on broadcast television. Way better then HBO & Showtime HD.

Anyone else having major problems w/ Charter Pipeline from say 4:00pm to right now (about 5:50pm)?

I can't keep it on. It comes on for about 30 seconds and then goes out again. It took me four resets to get this message out.

I feel like I'm Sayid on LOST.

Yes - we are having issues with Charter phone and Internet... intermittant drops.

Thanks! I hate to hear that for you, but yet I'm thrilled to hear it at the same time.

Just called Charter -- its busy. Shock of them all.

***EDIT: Still happening hear at 7:06pm.

I saw the HD-DVD setup at American TV on a 1080P Toshiba DLP. In this viewing environment the XA-1 was INCREDIBLE!! It looked better then anything I've seen on broadcast television. Way better then HBO & Showtime HD.

Yes, it's much better. The recompression that happens with HBO/Showtime degrades the picture.

KMOV OTA is having dropouts. I thought it was the weather, but I flipped around and all other channels were rock solid.

FWIW, the Westinghouse LCDs that I'm familiar with have a major design defect in which they're only capable of producing around 75% of the SMPTE C- or the HDTV-specified color gamut -- this means that regardless of the source, colors are undersaturated and there's a large range of colors these panels physically cannot produce.

Almost all current CCL backlight LCDs display 75% are less of the SMPTE color gamut. That equates to about 16.8 million colors which equals the color gamut broadcast in a HD broadcast. Thus, I don't agree that the 75% color gamut is a design defect. It's actually very competitive with other LCDs on the market. With recent and soon to be launched LED backlight LCDs, typical color gamuts will be 92% or greater of the NTSC color gamut. From a practical view, I don't understand how having a color gamut of 8 billion or more colors is helpful when HD broadcasts have 16.8 million (and the human eye is limited to resolving a few million colors)?

I actually have the new Westinghouse LVM-37w3 1080p monitor. I'm very pleased with the HD picture quality of this monitor. The resolution, contrast and color accuracy of this set surpasses the Sharp (had red push) and LG that I briefly tried. At 6-8 ft, the 1080p resolution makes a noticeable difference on 1080i broadcasts. I don't think the Westinghouse bashing is fair when a poor setup is the likely cause for the poor HD-DVD quality. I'd highly reccomend my 37w3 to anyone who wants the best performing 1080p LCD monitor for the money. In fact, one could argue that its the best regardless of price since it accepts native 1080p (when other more popular brands--current 1080p 37" Sharp can't accept native 1080p).

Anyone watch AI in HD last night on KTVI OTA?
Towards the end of the program, one of the girls was singing, and there were 2-3 close-up tight head shots. The clarity and detail was outstanding, to the point, those tiny sparkle/glitter chips in her make-up were clearly defined.
After it was over, we went back to the shots, and viewed it frame-by-frame. You could literally count the pores on her skin.
Very impressive.
This, out of my Sony RP CRT. I can just imagine what it looked like on a good display.
BTW, the FOX banner in the beginning said, "FOX Widescreen High Definition Digital TV™"

What I'm looking forward to is the use of LEDs in front projection design. I've read that LEDs are being used in current rear projectors, and they're working toward applying the technology to front projection. What this would mean is both a near instant on front projector (or at least a reduction from a minute or two to just a few seconds) and more accurate color. The other benefit that I'm especially interested in is the elimination of the color wheel in DLP projectors. This would get rid of the "rainbow" effect that bothers some people so much and still provide the perfect RGB pixel registration of single chip DLP.

As much as people ooh and aah over three chip projector designs, RGB registration issues always find their way into the discussions. Just check the Sony Ruby threads. Single chip DLP just doesn't have that problem. In a recent informal "test," Alan Gouger said that his older 720p DLP looked more detailed than his 1080p 3-chip Sony Ruby in some of his viewing. That's quite telling, I think. I still look for single chip DLP technology to be a strong contender for many years to come.

I've given up for now with a relative who won't take the steps to get HD up and running properly.

You can lead a horse to water... .

I don't think it's anyones fault but the leaders in the industry. A lot of people are either not tech savy or just don't want to have to go through the nuisance of understanding any of it and I don't blame them. I love this stuff and try to stay up to date as much as I can, but it's an interest of mine. Most people I think just want the great picture and sound with little work and I believe they should.

Just think about the transgression of A/V in the home to the majority of the population. So many are use to either connecting the coax of their antenna or cable provider to the back of their tv. A VCR in the loop, and they're done and proud. They get to see their favorite shows and Voala! They start throwing in DVDs, TiVo's, CD players, HD Receivers, HD Radio, Satellite, MP3's, MCE, Cable Boxes, and HD-DVD and it's a wonder why the normal population is confused! How do you hook all of that up to a central TV and make it simple to control? If you have no idea then good money needs to be spent to have someone do it for you.

If they expect your average day joes to get into this and enjoy it to it's full advantage, then it needs to be simplified. That's not going to happen because all of the companies are getting the money they want because they have a dazed & confused customer who's willing to fork over money for the next best thing.

KMOV OTA is having dropouts. I thought it was the weather, but I flipped around and all other channels were rock solid.

I've been having that problem for days...As early as the Final Four. I keep having to with the Samsung reciever to use analog when watching KMOV. I had the problem monday with CSI: Miami. Great Picture, but is stumbled a couple of times.


On the reception note, who has experierience with the DB2? Is it superior to the Silver Sensor?

I've been having that problem for days...As early as the Final Four. I keep having to with the Samsung reciever to use analog when watching KMOV. I had the problem monday with CSI: Miami. Great Picture, but is stumbled a couple of times.


On the reception note, who has experierience with the DB2? Is it superior to the Silver Sensor?

I live in Dogtown, and I've had better experience with my DB2 than I did with my Silver Sensor.

I used to have multipath problems with KSDK with the Silver Sensor and would have to change the setting on my antennuator when I was Tivo-ing a NBC show.

I then switched to the DB2, which I hooked up next to my dish outside. My signal strength is much more stable across the board with the DB2. Basically, I don't worry about my OTA reception anymore, which is nice.

Anyone watch AI in HD last night on KTVI OTA?
Towards the end of the program, one of the girls was singing, and there were 2-3 close-up tight head shots. The clarity and detail was outstanding, to the point, those tiny sparkle/glitter chips in her make-up were clearly defined.
After it was over, we went back to the shots, and viewed it frame-by-frame. You could literally count the pores on her skin.
Very impressive.
This, out of my Sony RP CRT. I can just imagine what it looked like on a good display.
BTW, the FOX banner in the beginning said, "FOX Widescreen High Definition Digital TV™"

Agreed. I think it was when Katherine McPhee was singing. AI generally looks very good.

Anyone watch AI in HD last night on KTVI OTA?
Towards the end of the program, one of the girls was singing, and there were 2-3 close-up tight head shots. The clarity and detail was outstanding, to the point, those tiny sparkle/glitter chips in her make-up were clearly defined.
After it was over, we went back to the shots, and viewed it frame-by-frame. You could literally count the pores on her skin.
Very impressive.
This, out of my Sony RP CRT. I can just imagine what it looked like on a good display.
BTW, the FOX banner in the beginning said, "FOX Widescreen High Definition Digital TV™"

Ken,

I think the HD picture quality on Fox is among the best, except at some shot changes. Has anyone else experienced this or am I the only one? What I'm talking about specifically happens when the show cuts from one camera to another. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does the image of the new camera shot starts as blocks which quickly resolve themselves into fine detail in less than a second. I don't know if this is the result of low bitrate or some other aspect of the encoding/compression process.

Maybe I need to post some pictures of what I'm talking about.

Anyone else notice it?

Ken,

I think the HD picture quality on Fox is among the best, except at some shot changes. Has anyone else experienced this or am I the only one? What I'm talking about specifically happens when the show cuts from one camera to another. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does the image of the new camera shot starts as blocks which quickly resolve themselves into fine detail in less than a second. I don't know if this is the result of low bitrate or some other aspect of the encoding/compression process.

Maybe I need to post some pictures of what I'm talking about.

Anyone else notice it?

I notice periodic blocks/pixelization but I don't recall if it is when cameras change. It doesn't happen that often either.

Scott

Yes - we are having issues with Charter phone and Internet... intermittant drops.


Not sure if this is coincidental or not but our VOip went out at work yesterday also, not thru Charter of course, another friend said his company also had issues with Voip, Conspiracy(AT&T)?

This, out of my Sony RP CRT. I can just imagine what it looked like on a good display.
BTW, the FOX banner in the beginning said, "FOX Widescreen High Definition Digital TV™"

Not to start a flame war but properly calibrated, it probably couldn't be much better but could only be bigger. :D

Walt

I live in Dogtown, and I've had better experience with my DB2 than I did with my Silver Sensor.

I used to have multipath problems with KSDK with the Silver Sensor and would have to change the setting on my antennuator when I was Tivo-ing a NBC show.

I then switched to the DB2, which I hooked up next to my dish outside. My signal strength is much more stable across the board with the DB2. Basically, I don't worry about my OTA reception anymore, which is nice.

Thanks. I might pick up a couple of those...On my laptop, the USB HDTV tuner is not coping well with an amplified antenna...


Apparently KTVI has changed to logo (bug) to the new logo, and now it's really big...really big. Anybody with a tv larger than 20" should be able see it across the room. Anybody else agree?

What I'm looking forward to is the use of LEDs in front projection design. I've read that LEDs are being used in current rear projectors, and they're working toward applying the technology to front projection. What this would mean is both a near instant on front projector (or at least a reduction from a minute or two to just a few seconds) and more accurate color. The other benefit that I'm especially interested in is the elimination of the color wheel in DLP projectors. This would get rid of the "rainbow" effect that bothers some people so much and still provide the perfect RGB pixel registration of single chip DLP.

Not to mention the fact that LEDs have an amazingly long life expectancy. I've already been thru my first lamp in 4.5K hours.

I also heard that while alternating Red-Blue-Green LEDs eliminates the need for the color wheel, the rainbow effect may persist with single- DLP chip systems. The true cure for this is a 3-chip solution. Note that while I do catch an occasional rainbow in very unique circumstances, I would never trade my DLP for an LCD RPTV.

I stopped by the BB on Manchester today. They had the new Toshiba connected to a Pioneer flatscreen (I think it was Plasma). At first they just had the Demo. King Kong looks great as does Batman Begins.

While watching the demo the sales guy found an open copy of The Last Samurai. he poped that in and went to the big battle scene. Gotta say I do like the menu engine for changing chapters etc...

The picture was flawless with no compression artifacts during the fire/explosion scenes. Fog was also void of any pixilation problems.

It takes a LONG time to boot the disk. At least 30-40 seconds.

If it were half the price I might buy it, but for now I'll wait for BluRay and most likely PS3.

Hey all,

I am going to replace my Silver Sensor with an outdoor antenna within the next couple months. Based on the DB2 specs and antennaweb information, the DB2 should be fine for my location (Fenton area). However, I am leaning towards buying the DB4 just to make sure I have enough, especially since the cost of the DB4 isn't too terribly much. The Silver Sensor works ok in my basement but I get occasional dropouts and have to reposition it depending on which channel I want to watch. I figure a multi-directional DB2 or DB4 should be much better. I have not decided whether I want to attic mount or roof mount, so I thought maybe the DB4 would be a little better in case I decide to attic mount.

The DB2 range says 1-30 miles, the DB4 says 15-55 miles. According to antennaweb, most of the towers are within 10 miles of my home. Will the minimum range on the DB4 cause me any problems or will the DB4 do the job as well or better than the DB2? I'm not sure what to make of the minimum range spec. Alternatively, whether I attic mount or not, do any of you have an opinion on whether think I should just go with the DB2 (i.e. the DB4 would just be overkill)?

Thanks,
Mike

I own a LG RU-52SZ61D DLP. It's about 1 1/2 years old. Seeing all this stuff about the rainbow effect prompted me to see if anyone has had this issue.

Occasionally, and I can't put a finger on what prompts/causes it, I get a vertical stripe, sometimes red, sometimes green running the length of the TV right about the middle of the screen. Seems to be about the same place when I notice it. It doesn't appear to be permanent, and I don't notice it all the time.

I assume it's not rainbow effect, but I haven't been able to find out what may be causing it.

If anyone has a clue what it is, or what I can look for to narrow down what it might be, please let me know.

Thanks

Great question, Nuzy, and one that l look forward to reading the responses to.

I am considering looking for a way to upgrade my current antenna and might consider the DB4.

With the amount of times I am splitting my signal, having a second antenna might be the way to go.

Shoot, if the DB4 is overkill, I guess the DB8 that I have is considered overkill.....Why can't
I get channel 9-* or 46-1? Not that I care about 46-1 just one that I can't get.

If you are that close, why don't you get more of a directional antenna instead of a multi-directional one?

One thing that I have done to fix my 2-1 dropouts is to lower the amount of gain I am using with my amp.

I stopped by the BB on Manchester today. They had the new Toshiba connected to a Pioneer flatscreen (I think it was Plasma). At first they just had the Demo. King Kong looks great as does Batman Begins.

While watching the demo the sales guy found an open copy of The Last Samurai. he poped that in and went to the big battle scene. Gotta say I do like the menu engine for changing chapters etc...

The picture was flawless with no compression artifacts during the fire/explosion scenes. Fog was also void of any pixilation problems.

It takes a LONG time to boot the disk. At least 30-40 seconds.

If it were half the price I might buy it, but for now I'll wait for BluRay and most likely PS3.
I'm with you... waiting on the PS3, that is. Hell, I'm still thinking about the Oppo.

Yeah but you gotta wonder how much will the PS3 cost? 500? 600? If BluRay players are going to sell for $799-$999, I dont see the PS3 being much cheaper than that. Just an opinion though.

Yeah but you gotta wonder how much will the PS3 cost? 500? 600? If BluRay players are going to sell for $799-$999, I dont see the PS3 being much cheaper than that. Just an opinion though.


Well, if you play games, its a no-brainer. I'm waiting for the PS3 rev. 2 ;)

Shoot, if the DB4 is overkill, I guess the DB8 that I have is considered overkill.....Why can't
I get channel 9-* or 46-1? Not that I care about 46-1 just one that I can't get.

If you are that close, why don't you get more of a directional antenna instead of a multi-directional one?

One thing that I have done to fix my 2-1 dropouts is to lower the amount of gain I am using with my amp.
I can pick up all the locals with my SS in my basement, so I assume I will get better results with an outdoor configuration. Although I am close to the towers, I didn't consider a directional because I have to move the SS around depending on which channel I want to view, and that is a pain in the ass. Maybe having an outdoor directional will work better? Antennaweb recommends a medium directional, although 46.1 and 24.1 don't fall into the pattern. Then again, they probably wouldn't fall into the pattern even with a multidirectional antenna either and I don't particularly care about either of those stations anyway. Do I lose signal strength by going with a multi-directional rather than a directional?

I own a LG RU-52SZ61D DLP. It's about 1 1/2 years old. Seeing all this stuff about the rainbow effect prompted me to see if anyone has had this issue.

Occasionally, and I can't put a finger on what prompts/causes it, I get a vertical stripe, sometimes red, sometimes green running the length of the TV right about the middle of the screen. Seems to be about the same place when I notice it. It doesn't appear to be permanent, and I don't notice it all the time.

I assume it's not rainbow effect, but I haven't been able to find out what may be causing it.

If anyone has a clue what it is, or what I can look for to narrow down what it might be, please let me know.

Thanks

What you're experiencing sounds like RBE, although you probably aren't very susceptible to it. You notice it when there's an area of high contrast (e.g. a bright stripe that runs up and down the screen) and you move your eyes quickly from side to side. What you're seeing is the separation of the red, green and blue images created by the spinning color wheel. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to spot it. After a short period of time with DLP, I lose sensitivity to it and have to try really hard to pick up on it at all. RBE is the side effect of the color wheel, but the benefit of single chip DLP is a complete lack of convergence issues. I'll make the trade.

What I was talking about with the use of LEDs in DLP single chip systems is that I believe the flashing of the LEDs can be made fast enough to eliminate RBE (for all practical purposes). Right now, the fastest color wheels are 5 or 6 speed, but LEDs (I believe) could flash much faster than that. The micromirrors used in DLP can flip as fast as they need to, to match the LED flashing.

Yeah but you gotta wonder how much will the PS3 cost? 500? 600? If BluRay players are going to sell for $799-$999, I dont see the PS3 being much cheaper than that. Just an opinion though.
well, yeah... look, i have a 360, and, despite the meager offering of games and sporadic catalog of backwards compatibility, i've still been enjoying the fact that gaming has caught on to hd. fact is, i love my ps3, and hope to love my ps2. i've yet to play a single movie on any console... ever. but with this fustercluck coming (been through the whole beta/vhs thing, thanks) the ps3 is my first bluray. hopefully, the hdmi inputs on my sony play nice. at some point, i'll invest in the winning hd format for disc. until then, however, i'll watch what happens and play my games.

i'm a dork... i love my PS2, hope to love the PS3

Just because the PS3 will be able to play Bluray DVD's doesn't mean that it will output them at the same quality one would expect from a standalone DVD player.

Didn't we learn that lesson from the PS2, Xbox and even the 360? All can play DVD's, but the video quality is of the level you'd find from a $50 DVD player at K-mart. Just because something has a drive in it to read certain media, doesn't mean that the video processing hardware will be able to deliver reference level video quality.

Just because the PS3 will be able to play Bluray DVD's doesn't mean that it will output them at the same quality one would expect from a standalone DVD player.

Didn't we learn that lesson from the PS2, Xbox and even the 360? All can play DVD's, but the video quality is of the level you'd find from a $50 DVD player at K-mart. Just because something has a drive in it to read certain media, doesn't mean that the video processing hardware will be able to deliver reference level video quality.

No, but it will allow me to play BR disks. If the video quality is good (matching dtheater) then I can wait for a 3rd gen BR DVD solution (hopefully by then BR will be king). If HD DVD has won, then I can buy one of those and still play my BR along with games on my PS3.

If MS bundles an HD-DVD with their Xbox 360 I may just break down and buy one of those as well.

As far as video quality issues, I have an $80 motherboard that has onboard Video, SATA Raid, 8ch HD Audio and a DVI connector. I use it for my MCE PC with a Dvico HD tuner card feeding my Panasonic AE700. The video quality is equal to if not better than my Dish 921 DVR. I think the internal hardware is more of an issue for upconversion of SD-DVD. For that I have my current Panasonic. I'm sure the higher end players will have better video, but again I'll buy that when Gen 3 hits the shelves.

The new Dish MPEG4 HD DVR I installed on 2/16 has suffered a hardware failure. All DVR functions went Poof! All live TV functions are normal. A replacement is en route, due here on Friday.

HD TS said there have been "some hardware failures, though it accounts for a very small quantity of units." (the tech's words) At the same time, he offered no resistance, got the info he needed, ordered the replacement, and explained the procedure, all in about 5 minutes.

Hey all,

I am going to replace my Silver Sensor with an outdoor antenna within the next couple months. Based on the DB2 specs and antennaweb information, the DB2 should be fine for my location (Fenton area). However, I am leaning towards buying the DB4 just to make sure I have enough, especially since the cost of the DB4 isn't too terribly much. The Silver Sensor works ok in my basement but I get occasional dropouts and have to reposition it depending on which channel I want to watch. I figure a multi-directional DB2 or DB4 should be much better. I have not decided whether I want to attic mount or roof mount, so I thought maybe the DB4 would be a little better in case I decide to attic mount.

The DB2 range says 1-30 miles, the DB4 says 15-55 miles. According to antennaweb, most of the towers are within 10 miles of my home. Will the minimum range on the DB4 cause me any problems or will the DB4 do the job as well or better than the DB2? I'm not sure what to make of the minimum range spec. Alternatively, whether I attic mount or not, do any of you have an opinion on whether think I should just go with the DB2 (i.e. the DB4 would just be overkill)?

Thanks,
Mike

I might be able to help you a little. I live in High Ridge and have had the DB2 for at least 6 months. A guy at work tried the Turk (from Circuit City) which is shaped like an arrow, I guess that is Yagi design, where the DB2 is Bow. I think your silver sensor is similar to the Turk. But anyway, we swapped and discovered that the Turk would pull a little better, but is much more directional than the DB2. He also uses his in the basement and has to re-adjust.

I put my DB2 in the house (on speaker stand approx. 4 ft. high, below the LCD mounted on the corner wall and behind entertainment cabinet housing the PC so that it is hidden). It is facing towards Fenton basically. I have split the antenna to an Avermedia A180 and Dvico Fusion USB tuners. Unfortunately, I am somewhat lower than a hillside in the direction the antenna faces and there are trees on that hill. But through the winter I had fairly good reception on both tuners. Now with leaves back on trees, it is dropping out more.

The Dvico tuner does pull better than the A180, so I may have to go back to not splitting and running only 1 tuner, or look to mount the antenna higher and outside. I get Fox, NBC, and CBS the best, PBS and subchannels pretty good, followed by ABC, and then WB, and then UPN. Watching Invasion now, but getting a few skips. Definitely got worse just in the last week (trees leafing out).

I don't have to re-adjust and actually when I have tried it doesn't seem to help much.

I don't know if the DB4 is needed as I have several things working against me and the DB2 works pretty good. Maybe others here can give a direct compare on experiences with DB4 versus DB2.

I might be able to help you a little. I live in High Ridge and have had the DB2 for at least 6 months. A guy at work tried the Turk (from Circuit City) which is shaped like an arrow, I guess that is Yagi design, where the DB2 is Bow. I think your silver sensor is similar to the Turk. But anyway, we swapped and discovered that the Turk would pull a little better, but is much more directional than the DB2. He also uses his in the basement and has to re-adjust.

I put my DB2 in the house (on speaker stand approx. 4 ft. high, below the LCD mounted on the corner wall and behind entertainment cabinet housing the PC so that it is hidden). It is facing towards Fenton basically. I have split the antenna to an Avermedia A180 and Dvico Fusion USB tuners. Unfortunately, I am somewhat lower than a hillside in the direction the antenna faces and there are trees on that hill. But through the winter I had fairly good reception on both tuners. Now with leaves back on trees, it is dropping out more.

The Dvico tuner does pull better than the A180, so I may have to go back to not splitting and running only 1 tuner, or look to mount the antenna higher and outside. I get Fox, NBC, and CBS the best, PBS and subchannels pretty good, followed by ABC, and then WB, and then UPN. Watching Invasion now, but getting a few skips. Definitely got worse just in the last week (trees leafing out).

I don't have to re-adjust and actually when I have tried it doesn't seem to help much.

I don't know if the DB4 is needed as I have several things working against me and the DB2 works pretty good. Maybe others here can give a direct compare on experiences with DB4 versus DB2.

I don't know if this an issue with the receiver (some sites mumble about a powered USB hub) I've got (vBox Cat's Eye USB-A-3560), but I can get stations in a pattern (somewhat) inconsistent with the AntennaWeb site). If I point toward Shrewsbury I get KDNL, KPLR, and KMOV (with dropouts). If I point toward JeffCo, I get KMOV. I can then receive no other stations at all. If I point due west (toward Chesterfield, I get KTVI, KPLR, KDNL, and KMOV (with Dropouts). I might buy a Silver Sensor off eBay to be sure that my problem is that I'm using a VHF/UHF antenna, and the amplification setting is causing issues, even while off.

I got an almost perfect HD recording of Alias, but a couple of dropouts around 7:20pm caused it lose about 1.5 minutes of the show. That's with the antenna favoring KDNL-DT. If the Silver Sensor doesn't work out, I can pair it with the other one, and help increase the gain on WRBU on the TV.

I can pick up all the locals with my SS in my basement, so I assume I will get better results with an outdoor configuration. Although I am close to the towers, I didn't consider a directional because I have to move the SS around depending on which channel I want to view, and that is a pain in the ass. Maybe having an outdoor directional will work better? Antennaweb recommends a medium directional, although 46.1 and 24.1 don't fall into the pattern. Then again, they probably wouldn't fall into the pattern even with a multidirectional antenna either and I don't particularly care about either of those stations anyway. Do I lose signal strength by going with a multi-directional rather than a directional?

What's frustating to me is you're getting better reception in your basement that I am on the second floor of an apartment building...where I found out seems to cause more problems. :p

KPLR came in perfectly at work Saturday (I brought the laptop computer/reciever to work to keep tabs on the Cards game), on the first floor (one story library...I suppose if had been at say, the Buder library on the third floor, I suppose the reception would have been horrendous... :rolleyes:

Antennaweb recommends a medium directional, although 46.1 and 24.1 don't fall into the pattern. Then again, they probably wouldn't fall into the pattern even with a multidirectional antenna either and I don't particularly care about either of those stations anyway. Do I lose signal strength by going with a multi-directional rather than a directional?

I have a medium antenna from Radio Shack in my attic and I pull in all of the stations. I've never had a drop out and signal stays constant at around 85-90. I live in a sort-of valley (if O'fallon ever had one) and a forest blocks the line of site. It may help that I am so far away that I don't have to try and pin point stations. I pointed my antenna in the general SE location - Compass ~122-125 reading. An average from the AntennaWeb map.

Almost all current CCL backlight LCDs display 75% are less of the SMPTE color gamut. That equates to about 16.8 million colors which equals the color gamut broadcast in a HD broadcast. Thus, I don't agree that the 75% color gamut is a design defect. It's actually very competitive with other LCDs on the market. With recent and soon to be launched LED backlight LCDs, typical color gamuts will be 92% or greater of the NTSC color gamut. From a practical view, I don't understand how having a color gamut of 8 billion or more colors is helpful when HD broadcasts have 16.8 million (and the human eye is limited to resolving a few million colors)?

I actually have the new Westinghouse LVM-37w3 1080p monitor. I'm very pleased with the HD picture quality of this monitor. The resolution, contrast and color accuracy of this set surpasses the Sharp (had red push) and LG that I briefly tried. At 6-8 ft, the 1080p resolution makes a noticeable difference on 1080i broadcasts. I don't think the Westinghouse bashing is fair when a poor setup is the likely cause for the poor HD-DVD quality. I'd highly reccomend my 37w3 to anyone who wants the best performing 1080p LCD monitor for the money. In fact, one could argue that its the best regardless of price since it accepts native 1080p (when other more popular brands--current 1080p 37" Sharp can't accept native 1080p).In fact, Westinghouse quotes its color gamut as 75% of the NTSC gamut. This comes directly from the manufacturer specifications which can be found here. (https://www.westinghousedigital.com/pc-44-7-42-1080p-monitor.aspx)

The problem I have with this sort of display is that regardless of how you set it up, it has no hope of ever coming close to being accurate. The issue of color gamut goes well beyond the number of possible colors that can be displayed, and more specifically to how the colors that should be displayed actually end up appearing on the screen.

I'll admit that I'm seriously discouraged by the fact that consumers -- apparently informed consumers -- willingly buy displays that are purposely built out of specification. I guess if you're happy (going back to an earlier discussion here), it really shouldn't matter. But from my perspective, the less consumers care about accuracy and the more willing they are to buy products that are designed incorrectly in the name of saving a few bucks, the more lattitude it gives manufacturers to churn out whatever piece of crap they decide to make next in order to meet a price point.

Maybe you think this sort of thing isn't important. Well, look how well disinterest in quality has worked out for us wth cable and satellite TV, where compression has been progressively ratcheted up to point what's well beyond reasonable.

The fact that Toshiba and Best Buy are parties to promotion of a new technology with a display that Westinghouse acknowledges to be out of specification is bizarre. After all, the major selling point of this new technology is the availability of more accurate and realistic images.

Using this Westinghouse display to demonstrate the merits of HD DVD is like putting rocket fuel in a Yugo and telling customers they'll be able to drive to the moon.

I own a LG RU-52SZ61D DLP. It's about 1 1/2 years old. Seeing all this stuff about the rainbow effect prompted me to see if anyone has had this issue.

Occasionally, and I can't put a finger on what prompts/causes it, I get a vertical stripe, sometimes red, sometimes green running the length of the TV right about the middle of the screen. Seems to be about the same place when I notice it. It doesn't appear to be permanent, and I don't notice it all the time.

I assume it's not rainbow effect, but I haven't been able to find out what may be causing it.

If anyone has a clue what it is, or what I can look for to narrow down what it might be, please let me know.

Thanks

Are you using a MOXI? If so, does it happen when watching SD? There are numerous reports of this. I think they call it MOXI measels. I don't watch much SD, but I see it alot when the kids watch Nick.

Are you using a MOXI? If so, does it happen when watching SD? There are numerous reports of this. I think they call it MOXI measels. I don't watch much SD, but I see it alot when the kids watch Nick.

Yes, I'm using the Moxi HD DVR. It does seem that it is only SD programs that it happens to.

Maybe others here can give a direct compare on experiences with DB4 versus DB2.

I have used both. I am near the airport and there is a very large evergreen type tree next door. The DB2 was not supposed to work at all according to antennaweb. I was able to use it but it required very precise aiming and in poor weather I had macroblocking. Sometimes only briefly but PBS and 11 was unwatchable. It took hours to get it just right to pull in just the 4 networks. FWIW, a very slight 2-4 degree tilt helps.

I picked up a CM 4221 (DB4) at Skywalker for only an Andrew Jackson. Since it's 30" long I had to increase the mast by 2'. I pointed it with no compass and it's great. No further adjustments either. I forgot the difference in decibels between the two, but it's enough of an increase and it's twice the size. I can pull in the four networks as well as PBS and channel 11 now just great.

Hope this helps.
Edit: For Nuzy. You asked if the DB4 would be overkill. IMO, I'd get the DB4 over the DB2 since it's so little $. If it pulls in too much signal you can install a 6 dB attenuator from Radio Shack. I have also read that some have had success using an FM trap also from RS if too close to FM stations and noise.

I saw the Crestwood Best Buy HD DVD setup yesterday and they were using a new Westinghouse 1080p LCD. I didn't check the model number exactly, but I believe it's the one reviewed in the latest Home Theater - the LVM-42w2. I generally give less credence to reviews in this magazine than to those in a magazine such as Widescreen Review, and they're always less thorough. However, the color points measured close to SMPTE standards, but the color temp drifted a little at the high end and dropped more at low IRE. Generally, the review was favorable, and it mentioned nothing of the design flaws you talked about, Doug. If you get a chance, take a look and see if the review matches your observations.

In terms of how the display looked as set up in the BB, it was very poor. It was so bad that after I left I wondered if the HD DVD output was set to 480p. (I know exactly what you were talking about, Scott Tucker.) I watched the clip from Kong that I saw at the American in Fenton. Not even close. The Westinghouse didn't look much different than my DVD viewing of the movie. I know the display had to be set up badly, or the review in HT could not have been as positive as it was. I'm tempted to go back, just to check out the HD DVD setting and the TV settings. I'm baffled at the radical difference. In terms of detail, color, contrast and artifacting, this was a bad, bad demo.

Using this Westinghouse display to demonstrate the merits of HD DVD is like putting rocket fuel in a Yugo and telling customers they'll be able to drive to the moon.

I was one of the few people who years ago bought a Yugo for running around all 7 miles of SF. It was a great little car (briefly) until it was totalled when I was hit. :D

Any update on when the MPEG4 locals will be up for St. Louis?

In fact, Westinghouse quotes its color gamut as 75% of the NTSC gamut. This comes directly from the manufacturer specifications which can be found here. (https://www.westinghousedigital.com/pc-44-7-42-1080p-monitor.aspx)

The problem I have with this sort of display is that regardless of how you set it up, it has no hope of ever coming close to being accurate. The issue of color gamut goes well beyond the number of possible colors that can be displayed, and more specifically to how the colors that should be displayed actually end up appearing on the screen.

I'll admit that I'm seriously discouraged by the fact that consumers -- apparently informed consumers -- willingly buy displays that are purposely built out of specification. I guess if you're happy (going back to an earlier discussion here), it really shouldn't matter. But from my perspective, the less consumers care about accuracy and the more willing they are to buy products that are designed incorrectly in the name of saving a few bucks, the more lattitude it gives manufacturers to churn out whatever piece of crap they decide to make next in order to meet a price point.

Maybe you think this sort of thing isn't important. Well, look how well disinterest in quality has worked out for us wth cable and satellite TV, where compression has been progressively ratcheted up to point what's well beyond reasonable.

The fact that Toshiba and Best Buy are parties to promotion of a new technology with a display that Westinghouse acknowledges to be out of specification is bizarre. After all, the major selling point of this new technology is the availability of more accurate and realistic images.

Using this Westinghouse display to demonstrate the merits of HD DVD is like putting rocket fuel in a Yugo and telling customers they'll be able to drive to the moon.

I saw the Crestwood Best Buy HD DVD setup yesterday and they were using a new Westinghouse 1080p LCD - the LVM-42w2. I generally give less credence to reviews in this magazine than to those in a magazine such as Widescreen Review, and they're always less thorough. However, the color points measured close to SMPTE standards, but the color temp drifted a little at the high end and dropped more at low IRE. Generally, the review was favorable, and it mentioned nothing of the design flaws you talked about, Doug. If you get a chance, take a look and see if the review matches your observations. Your link sends me to what looks like an ad for the display. I don't see the specs anywhere. I must be overlooking them.

In terms of how the display looked as set up in the BB, it was very poor. It was so bad that after I left I wondered if the HD DVD output was set to 480p. (I know exactly what you were talking about, Scott Tucker.) I watched the clip from Kong that I saw at the American in Fenton. Not even close. The Westinghouse didn't look much different than my DVD viewing of the movie. I know the display had to be set up badly, or the review in HT could not have been as positive as it was. I'm tempted to go back, just to check out the HD DVD setting and the TV settings. I'm baffled at the radical difference. In terms of detail, color, contrast and artifacting, this was a bad, bad demo.

Any update on when the MPEG4 locals will be up for St. Louis?

For D*? They still say May but also said no further info unil mid-May. How's that for a clear answer? :rolleyes:

Sorry about the double post - I was trying to do a minor edit and things went wonky. Oops.

Hello,

I purchased the popular Zenith antenna so that I could get ABC in OTA HD. I set up the antenna to where the signal was great on ABC (as well as pretty much everything else except PBS, which can be iffy).

Last Wednesday, we watched Lost in HD, and the signal did not even drop for a moment during the entire hour. Then, last Sunday, when we tried to watch Desperate Housewives, the signal cut out A LOT. Anything from a brief audio loss to a complete signal loss of a second or two. It was practically unwatchable.

When I checked the signal strength, it stayed between 40 and 70% (normally, it's around 60-70%), but the signal would cut out even as the signal strength meter was at 50%. Since then, I haven't seen any problems with signal drops- it was just Sunday night. Does this have anything to do with how cloudy it was Sunday, or is there something else that may have caused it that I could look into? Or, maybe it was ABC's problem?

Thanks,

PenDragon

Hello,

I purchased the popular Zenith antenna so that I could get ABC in OTA HD. I set up the antenna to where the signal was great on ABC (as well as pretty much everything else except PBS, which can be iffy).

Last Wednesday, we watched Lost in HD, and the signal did not even drop for a moment during the entire hour. Then, last Sunday, when we tried to watch Desperate Housewives, the signal cut out A LOT. Anything from a brief audio loss to a complete signal loss of a second or two. It was practically unwatchable.

When I checked the signal strength, it stayed between 40 and 70% (normally, it's around 60-70%), but the signal would cut out even as the signal strength meter was at 50%. Since then, I haven't seen any problems with signal drops- it was just Sunday night. Does this have anything to do with how cloudy it was Sunday, or is there something else that may have caused it that I could look into? Or, maybe it was ABC's problem?

Thanks,

PenDragon

That's a pretty low signal strength and any deviation like weather can cause the problems you had. You only get 60-70 to begin with which is bordeline at best. If it fluctuates a lot (jumping from 40 to 60 for example) it's a multipath issue. Sounds like you need to try to point it better or get a different antenna.

The new Dish MPEG4 HD DVR I installed on 2/16 has suffered a hardware failure. All DVR functions went Poof! All live TV functions are normal. A replacement is en route, due here on Friday.

Nice that they're replacing it so readily, but it sucks because you lose all of your saved recordings. When are they going to get that USB port working for an external drive? At a minimum, you could use it for backing up the data you've recorded. (I think that's all it will be available for anyway when/if it's ever activated.)

My first E* 622 had to be sent back and replaced with a new one. Which brings me to the warranty on these leased units. Maybe I'm the idiot here, but it seems to me, since this is a LEASED unit and I'm paying them a monthly fee for the privilege of using the unit, that if something goes wrong with it, WHENEVER that might be, that they would fix it or replace the unit. Not so, says the CSR I spoke with. The leased unit comes with a one year warranty. If it breaks after the first year, the cost of repairs is on YOU!

"But I don't own the unit", I said. "It's leased." She says that for an extra $6 a month you can get their EXTENDED WARRANTY for the unit that I spent $300 on not to own it, but to be able to use it. (Plus the monthly $6 lease fee.)

As I said, maybe I'm the idiot here, but that doesn't seem right to me. If a leased Charter box goes bad after the first year, you don't have to pay to have it fixed do you?

All that said, the 622 is ultra cool.

If a leased Charter box goes bad after the first year, you don't have to pay to have it fixed do you?



Sure you do. How much do you make per hour while working? Everytime Charter will have to come out you will lose a days pay. And then, they won't make the appointment, so you lose at least another days pay. You get the idea. :D

Scott

Forgot, that is a rip off to pay to lease it, and then pay to fix the box you don't own. That's why I bought my D* Tivo recently because I didn't want to lease.

Scott

that has been lowering my signal strength, and with the wind my signal changes down to zero...on all channels. I using a Winguard medium directional VHF/UHF pointed SSE from where I'm at. I'm thinking of getting a UHF antenna to mount on the mast under the other. Looking at the pic, what would a good UHF antenna to get, and will it help? I plan on running the two together to a single line as I need the other for FM and back up on VHF.

Yes, I'm using the Moxi HD DVR. It does seem that it is only SD programs that it happens to.


I also get a veritcal blue strip through SD programming on MOXI. Specifically it shows up on my Daily Show recordings off of Comedy Central.

I also get a veritcal blue strip through SD programming on MOXI. Specifically it shows up on my Daily Show recordings off of Comedy Central.

Not that whatever this is is ok, but I was primarily concerned about the possiblility that it was TV related. Looks like I can breath a little easier about that.

Looking at all the 'Charter/Moxi' posts and the 'My antenna doesn't work' posts I thought I would remind everyone that DirecTV HD Locals are 30-45 days away...

and for the doubters out there - Boeing released Spaceway 2 to Directv and they lit up 8 more cities within 24 hours... so the Sat is in place and offering services. It is basically just a logistical piece now.

Chris

I have used both. I am near the airport and there is a very large evergreen type tree next door. The DB2 was not supposed to work at all according to antennaweb. I was able to use it but it required very precise aiming and in poor weather I had macroblocking. Sometimes only briefly but PBS and 11 was unwatchable. It took hours to get it just right to pull in just the 4 networks. FWIW, a very slight 2-4 degree tilt helps.

I picked up a CM 4221 (DB4) at Skywalker for only an Andrew Jackson. Since it's 30" long I had to increase the mast by 2'. I pointed it with no compass and it's great. No further adjustments either. I forgot the difference in decibels between the two, but it's enough of an increase and it's twice the size. I can pull in the four networks as well as PBS and channel 11 now just great.

Hope this helps.
Edit: For Nuzy. You asked if the DB4 would be overkill. IMO, I'd get the DB4 over the DB2 since it's so little $. If it pulls in too much signal you can install a 6 dB attenuator from Radio Shack. I have also read that some have had success using an FM trap also from RS if too close to FM stations and noise.
Thanks, Mo. That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I appreciate the input.

Nuzy

Warning - this is long and it's about the HD DVD launch and the demo settings at Best Buy. If your'e not interested, skip it.

OK, for a guy who vows not to buy either HD DVD or BluRay until the dust settles, you may wonder why I seem so interested in this HD DVD launch. Simple - I've been waiting for this for about 10 years. I told everyone who'd listen 10 years ago that regular DVD was just a stopgap until the real thing hit. This is the real thing! Unfortunately, it's two of the "real things" hitting at the same time and its the ugly dust they're kicking up that has me so ticked off.

Anyway, I returned to the Crestwood Best Buy today and discovered what I think is part of the reason for the poor quality of the HD DVD demo. I'm convinced that what I saw yesterday was 480p or 720p, not 1080i. I fiddled with the HD DVD remote and discovered that I had to hit the tiny silver button at the bottom marked "Display" to be able to tell what output mode the player was in. When I was able to toggle to 1080i, the display snapped into a clarity I just didn't see yesterday. (The remote is one of the best reasons NOT to buy the player - just awful.) The BB rep also told me they adjusted the Westinghouse display. It did look better today, although blacks appeared more crushed. The Crestwood store has the display in one of the worst possible spots - under harsh lighting that induces glare impossible to eliminate. The south county Best Buy has a much better viewing area set aside for the demo, but it's only a 1280x768 plasma. No 1080p.

The Westinghouse display they are using in Crestwood also looks interesting. It's a true 1080p display that will accept 1080p inputs - significant because most 1080p sets will not accept a 1080p input. How's that for forward thinking? The Westinghouse is a 42" LCD panel. There's an interesting review of it at Audioholics - you can find it here. (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/westinghouse-LVM-42w2p1.php) The pricing is very aggressive, even if the size is small for a primary viewing environment. You'd have to sit close.

Honestly, I don't care which of the formats wins this HD DVD/BluRay war, or even that either wins. I'd just like to see some format become a standard so that we can all enjoy the pristine quality of packaged HD as soon as possible. I just continue to warn people about the problem. If you buy one of these players today, you will not be able to play back any of the BluRay disk releases that are coming soon. If you buy an expensive BluRay player, you won't be able to play any of the HD DVD releases. Do yourself a favor and wait at least for a universal player that will play back both types. You'll spend an arm and a leg on first generation technology and you'll have very slim pickings for at least several months.

I'd recommend buying a Dish 211 and having it modded by Nextcom to record HD from satellite. You could probably set yourself up with an R5000 system (computer and all) for not much more than you'd pay for an HD DVD player, BluRay player and a few disks. I have two of the three releases sitting on the shelf above the HD DVD player at BB today - The Last Samurai and Phantom of the Opera. Of course, the quality is compromised in a couple of ways, but neither of those films is at the top of my favorites list anyway. But I have managed to collect hundreds of hours of programs, movies and television shows in true HD using my Nextcom R5000-HD system. Many of those programs may never see packaged HD release. I can play them back either from computer or from regular DVD recordables in full HD any time I want.

that has been lowering my signal strength, and with the wind my signal changes down to zero...on all channels. I using a Winguard medium directional VHF/UHF pointed SSE from where I'm at. I'm thinking of getting a UHF antenna to mount on the mast under the other. Looking at the pic, what would a good UHF antenna to get, and will it help? I plan on running the to together two a single line as I need the other for FM and back up on VHF.

A UHF antenna is going to help. Skywalker is a bit of a drive for you and I but they also ship so it may be less than the gas to drive there. Try a CM 4221 or a bigger CM 4228 from them since they accept returns. A larger antenna may help with the multipath. It's going to be a matter of trial and error to see what works.

You may want to check out the hardware thread and do a search for joined antennas. I don't know much about them, but I'm guessing running the FM with it may not be a good thing as many people use an FM trap to improve their signal. I'd suggest posting over at that thread and see what answers you may get.

I have a giant, dense evergreen type tree on the south side next door. I managed to find a "window" to point the antenna through. You probably need to see if there is a line of sight and or walk the roof to find the best spot. Google Earth may reveal other obstacles nearby too. The tree next door shows up big as day on Google Earth.

There are so many variables there is no way to know which antenna will work best as each situation is different. I am on my third antenna and second modified mast and live very close to you. FWIW, I am pointed almost due south rather than SSE like you. The only other suggestion is to arm yourself with a CM 4221/4228 and a Yagi style antenna to see which works. The Yagi may be better pointing in a tight spot. A Channel Master 4221/4228 helps with multipath.

I wish I had a better answer. After tons of research, posting on the hardware thread, a few phone calls to both Winegard and Skywalker I learned that there is no set answer as to what's going to work. Adding two feet mast height with a larger antenna worked for me. Lots of trial and error unfortunately. My neighbor said he thought I was going to wear out my ladder. ;)

Thanks, Mo. That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I appreciate the input.

Nuzy

You're welcome.

I re-read your post. If you mount it in the attic it's going to cut the signal by half. I suggest a test run before choosing the attic over mounting on the roof.

kdg454,

I have a Dish 622 install scheduled for next Tuesday. I thought Dish was supposed to send out the unit before the installer arrived. I still haven't gotten mine. When did you get your box?

Also, which channels should I look for to test for low signal strength? I know the aiming of the Dish 1000 is supposed to be a problem for some and I want to have a few good test channels when the installer is here, so he doesn't get away before I'm sure I'm getting decent levels.

Thanks,

kdg454,

I have a Dish 622 install scheduled for next Tuesday. I thought Dish was supposed to send out the unit before the installer arrived. I still haven't gotten mine. When did you get your box?

Also, which channels should I look for to test for low signal strength? I know the aiming of the Dish 1000 is supposed to be a problem for some and I want to have a few good test channels when the installer is here, so he doesn't get away before I'm sure I'm getting decent levels.

Thanks,
Mine arrived about 1 week prior to the scheduled install date. If you call HD TS (800-969-4388) they may be able to give you the status.
The Dish1000 install spec calls to aim and peak 119°, and then goes on to say, doing so will also peak 110° and 129°. My installer peaked 129° first, then 110°, then back to 129°. He didn't bother to check 119° until back inside with check switch. He had told me outside it would be fine, and it was.
I checked the signals on the check switch page. Since 129° was my lowest (and probably will be yours also), I checked the 129° signal strength on all Tp's. None were under 71, and only 2 were under 75.
I believe this is a better method than checking channels...faster also.
Another trick I learned is, if you leave a channel to go to the check-switch page, the orbital/Tp it defaults to is the orbital/Tp location of the channel you just departed.
When checking strengths, or diagnosing, it beats the heck out of looking them all up. In my case, I left 61.5° in the system, and with the many mirrored on 129° and 61.5° it is about the only method of knowing which orbital the mirrors is coming from.

Off topic but since most of us are techno geeks........

I was on the phone with at&t about my DSL bill and then I saw they now offered VOIP.
So I talk to them to find out what I need to make the switch.

Well, I have to keep my phone line, the actual number so my DSL service works but I can
drop all of the features of my phone line and just pay for a basic touch tone phone line, the
cost after taxes and surgcharges would be $21.20. Then I could sign up for VOIP and the
cost after taxes and surcharges would be somewhere around $30. So, it is a no go for
me. If I didn't have to pay the extra cost of having a phone line, or if it could be wrapped
into the cost of the VOIP that would be one thing, but this is just stupid.

I also would have to get a new phone number for the VOIP. You would think they could
figure out a way to do this with out screwing the customer. I would prefer that they just
change the phone number of the DSL account and then my VOIP number would be my
current number. But like I said, paying for basically 2 phone lines is ridiculous.

They need to come up with a way to bundle ALL IP/Voice services together. I pay $100 to
AT&T, then CINGULAR, and now at&t for my cell phone, but they can't tie the home phone
bill/Internet service bill together with the cell phone bill because I refuse to pay the $40
conversion fee from AT&T to Cingular, just so I can pay my at&t bill.

Uugh....................... Sorry for the rant at the end. This was just supposed to be an
informative post about VOIP via at&t.

Well, while we're OT, and this one is way off, but I'm reasonably sure someone here will know, and save me a bunch of digging.
Anyone here currently using GM's OnStar system in their car? If so, I'd like to know if it is capable of receiving incoming phone calls, and if it can, how it handles an incoming call. As in, what number the calling party would dial, and can OnStar be linked to your current cell phone number.

Yes, you'd think I could just call a salesperson at any GM dealership and ask, but after 4, I surrender.
tia

I believe how it handles the call depends on the year/make of the car. Different features.

When we had it, it had it's own phone number and it was an analog line. They have to
switch over to the digital band and have a converter for some cars that needs to be installed.

I could call the car and my wife would answer. It cut off the stereo and came through like
it does when you press the onstar button. But I don't remeber how it told you there was
a call. http://www.onstar.com can't help you?

I just talked to my brother, he is a GM Mechanic and has onstar. It tells you that you have
an incoming call and you press the phone button to answer it. And no, it can not be
tied to your current cell phone.

Thanks so much, WM. The link was very helpful.
The older I get, the lazier I get....so ashamed :o
After reading the link, I called Verizon, who confirmed there is a way to port a current cell number over to the vehicle, providing it's the 3 button OnStar system.
Now, if you could just stop by and setup my replacement 622 ;)
thanks again!

And no, it can not be
tied to your current cell phone.

I'm not sure if that is entirely true. I remember getting something a few months ago that said something about verizon(I think it was them) teaming up with OnStar. Since I didn't have the specific provider, I threw it away.

Mine arrived about 1 week prior to the scheduled install date. If you call HD TS (800-969-4388) they may be able to give you the status.
The Dish1000 install spec calls to aim and peak 119°, and then goes on to say, doing so will also peak 110° and 129°. My installer peaked 129° first, then 110°, then back to 129°. He didn't bother to check 119° until back inside with check switch. He had told me outside it would be fine, and it was.
I checked the signals on the check switch page. Since 129° was my lowest (and probably will be yours also), I checked the 129° signal strength on all Tp's. None were under 71, and only 2 were under 75.
I believe this is a better method than checking channels...faster also.
Another trick I learned is, if you leave a channel to go to the check-switch page, the orbital/Tp it defaults to is the orbital/Tp location of the channel you just departed.
When checking strengths, or diagnosing, it beats the heck out of looking them all up. In my case, I left 61.5° in the system, and with the many mirrored on 129° and 61.5° it is about the only method of knowing which orbital the mirrors is coming from.

Thanks, Ken. I'll be making some calls today.

Quick followup. I did have something to worry about with my Dish installation.

I spoke to 3 CSRs this morning. Two told me (despite not being able to give me a tracking number for my 622 DVR) not to worry. My 622 would be here before the installer arrived next Tuesday. The other one actually game me a tracking number. Good news, no? No. It was a tracking number for a replacement 921 DVR I'd gotten almost a year ago.

I called your number for HD TS and got through to someone who was actually able to get to the bottom of what had happened. There was no record of my 622 ever being shipped. There's a shortage of 622s. New install date is set for May 19. I'm not optimistic that this install will happen, either.

Regular Dish customer service can really suck. Today it was a big Hoover. Since I have a new 211 and a 921, it's a minor inconvenience, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I know we have some other Battlestar Galactica fans out there, so you should know that Universal HD will air the last of the season 2 episodes in early May. Then, after a week, they'll start over with the miniseries and the first season episodes in HD.

You can find the schedule here. (http://www.universalhd.com/Schedule/) .

The tech geek side of me says Blu-Ray should win, mostly because the much higher capacity of the disk should give it longer legs in the market place. It's amazing how fast a 100GB hard disk can get filled up recording HD programming. The more rational side of me says HD-DVD is going to win because the winner is going to be the one who claims market share and the average Joe out there is not going to shell out more for a DVD player than he has to. Once again, Sony is going to lose out. I wonder how long Sony's UMD disk is going to last?

From Wikipedia, "In February 2006, Paramount Home Entertainment, Warner Home Video and even Sony Pictures Home Entertainment announced that they are cutting back releases for the PSP, citing very disappointing sales of about 50,000 per title.

In March 2006, Reuters reported that Wal-Mart was considering abandoning sales of the format, and that Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Image Entertainment had ceased production. Other studios have reportedly reduced their commitment to the format as well. In light of these events, Sony is considering plans for improved PSP-to-TV connectivity."

If they're smart, they would take a loss on Blu-ray for a while and match price with HD-DVD. Unfortunately, their past track record says they'll happily go it alone until they can't justify making the equipment any more.

I know we have some other Battlestar Galactica fans out there, so you should know that Universal HD will air the last of the season 2 episodes in early May. Then, after a week, they'll start over with the miniseries and the first season episodes in HD.

You can find the schedule here. (http://www.universalhd.com/Schedule/) .

*Happy dance!*

Great news since my collection of the UHD episodes went away with my bad DVR. Glad to hear it will start with the miniseries.

October still feels far away...

I know we have some other Battlestar Galactica fans out there, so you should know that Universal HD will air the last of the season 2 episodes in early May. Then, after a week, they'll start over with the miniseries and the first season episodes in HD.

You can find the schedule here. (http://www.universalhd.com/Schedule/) .

On behalf of all the BG fans, let me just say "woo hoo!"

The tech geek side of me says Blu-Ray should win, mostly because the much higher capacity of the disk should give it longer legs in the market place. It's amazing how fast a 100GB hard disk can get filled up recording HD programming. The more rational side of me says HD-DVD is going to win because the winner is going to be the one who claims market share and the average Joe out there is not going to shell out more for a DVD player than he has to. Once again, Sony is going to lose out. I wonder how long Sony's UMD disk is going to last?

From Wikipedia, "In February 2006, Paramount Home Entertainment, Warner Home Video and even Sony Pictures Home Entertainment announced that they are cutting back releases for the PSP, citing very disappointing sales of about 50,000 per title.

In March 2006, Reuters reported that Wal-Mart was considering abandoning sales of the format, and that Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Image Entertainment had ceased production. Other studios have reportedly reduced their commitment to the format as well. In light of these events, Sony is considering plans for improved PSP-to-TV connectivity."

If they're smart, they would take a loss on Blu-ray for a while and match price with HD-DVD. Unfortunately, their past track record says they'll happily go it alone until they can't justify making the equipment any more.

It is going to be like BETA/VHS except that I would imagine that PQ for both formats are equal. Price IS and object and HD-DVD is first to the market with a better price. You know what mom and pop are going to buy. I don't think size means a thing except to people who record on computers. All that extra space on BR is just going to be filled with "Coming Attractions" and commercials. The way Sony works, you won't be able to skip through to get to why you purchased..err....(licensed?) the disk.

Walt

Its certainly not that I think HD-DVD is better because I haven't a clue when it comes to the tech-specs for these sorts of things. That's why I come here.

But, I do know quite a bit about marketing and, frankly, I don't understand why Sony is even going forward with BluRay. Here's why: In the marketplace, especially one where the public is as misinformed as it is with techonology, whoever reaches first is going to get the most market penetration. Secondly, names. Folks are familiar with what DVD means and at this point people are mostly familiar with the acronym "HD" for high definition. Combining the two is simple: a high definition DVD disc. Most people (and that's who end up giving a format, or technology, or company market penetration) can wrap their heads around this. But, what hte heck is BluRay? Is this sense, Sony has to spend more marketing and advertising dollars on explaining what the heck BluRay is to consumers first, THEN they have to win the war with respect to "BluRay is better than HD-DVD."

Less name recognition, late to the game, more expensive. How the heck do they think they can win this?

Someone tell me where I'm DEAD wrong, or else I'm sending my resume to Sony.

Not sure if you are wrong Winston. But, remember Betamax? Sony had the betamax market to itself for at least a year before VHS showed up. Beta was a superior product, came to market first, but ultimately lost to VHS. Being first to market, and having market share is not necessarily the key.

Personally, I am sick and tired of the format wars, and constantly having to upgrade to stay in the ballgame. It really pisses me off that my two year old projector will not play HD-DVD's in full resolution. I won't buy either HD-DVD or BD for a long time, and maybe never since something else will come around later.

Scott

Scott, great point. I couldn't remember if Beta or VHS was first to the market. VHS was certainly able to overcome Betamax's superiority in terms of quality and first to market. But, wasn't VHS supported by the industry? Isn't that what ultimately helped it defeat Beta? If so, I don't see that happening here, though it might.

I agree the wars are ridiculous, not only for us as end-consumers, but also for the companies. One -- or maybe both -- are going to lose a lot of money.

I think in the end $$$$$ was what made it for VHS. It cost less. This is probably the bigget advantage HD-DVD has over BD.

Now I am hearing that the new players will output HD over component. So, now I am very confused Some say it will output, and some say it won't. Hell, maybe I'll go buy one today just to test it.

Scott

Based on what I've heard, it might output HD via component but it will not upconvert SD DVDs via component. You'll need an HDMI connection for that.

Did anyone notice during the Cubs/Cards game last night they were running ads for the Monday and Tuesday games against the Prates while mentioning once or twice the games will also be available in High-Def?

They also had an FSN-HD logo at the bottom on the screen at the end.

I think that's the first time I've seen that.

I did not.

However, during the pregame show, the line artifacts that Doug and I noticed before with DirecTV were back and not only were they back they were far worse than they had ever been before.

Thankfully, something was done prior to the start -- but I ended up watching/listening to WGN anyway.

Would be cool if the games were in HD though.

Joe,
Thanks for that great news about Battlestar Galactica. I'll be counting on you to "hook me up". Sorry about your woes with the 622 dvr. I found out that I won't be able to keep my leased 942 and still lease the 622 as well. I'd have to buy the 622 at $799, and that AIN'T gonna happen. Hopefully I can get everything watched and cleared off the 942 before I swap it out.

Did anyone notice during the Cubs/Cards game last night they were running ads for the Monday and Tuesday games against the Prates while mentioning once or twice the games will also be available in High-Def?

Monday's game is being simulcast in HD, I'm not certain about Tuesday's.
Again, Dish will carry it on channel 9467, flagged as a MLB EI broadcast, which will mean it will be blacked-out in the St Louis market.
Charter subs should be able to get the broadcast in HD.

I sure wish KPLR had decided to do today's game in HD.

A UHF antenna is going to help. Skywalker is a bit of a drive for you and I but they also ship so it may be less than the gas to drive there. Try a CM 4221 or a bigger CM 4228 from them since they accept returns. A larger antenna may help with the multipath. It's going to be a matter of trial and error to see what works.

You may want to check out the hardware thread and do a search for joined antennas. I don't know much about them, but I'm guessing running the FM with it may not be a good thing as many people use an FM trap to improve their signal. I'd suggest posting over at that thread and see what answers you may get.

I have a giant, dense evergreen type tree on the south side next door. I managed to find a "window" to point the antenna through. You probably need to see if there is a line of sight and or walk the roof to find the best spot. Google Earth may reveal other obstacles nearby too. The tree next door shows up big as day on Google Earth.

There are so many variables there is no way to know which antenna will work best as each situation is different. I am on my third antenna and second modified mast and live very close to you. FWIW, I am pointed almost due south rather than SSE like you. The only other suggestion is to arm yourself with a CM 4221/4228 and a Yagi style antenna to see which works. The Yagi may be better pointing in a tight spot. A Channel Master 4221/4228 helps with multipath.

I wish I had a better answer. After tons of research, posting on the hardware thread, a few phone calls to both Winegard and Skywalker I learned that there is no set answer as to what's going to work. Adding two feet mast height with a larger antenna worked for me. Lots of trial and error unfortunately. My neighbor said he thought I was going to wear out my ladder. ;)

Thanks MoInSTL for the feed back. I'll have to go with the smaller antenna so it will fit above the tripod mount and under the other antenna. I'm looking at the DB2, DB4 or the CM 4221. I've already found a combiner that should work.

Beta v VHS

A comment about Beta vs VHS - a couple of factors helped VHS = maximum 8 hours recording time versus 5 for Beta. But probably more important was the 'support' by the Adult Video industry.

Jim

Monday's game is being simulcast in HD, I'm not certain about Tuesday's.
Again, Dish will carry it on channel 9467, flagged as a MLB EI broadcast, which will mean it will be blacked-out in the St Louis market.
Charter subs should be able to get the broadcast in HD.

Hey, Ken,

My e-mail from Fox said they were disappointed at how Dish was handling the last HD game they agreed to air. I'll be writing again to see if they might intervene to get the game broadcast to the St. Louis market.

HD - DVD - Blu Ray Audio
------------------------------
Just as many of us are holding off on our purchase of HD-DVD and/or Blu Ray, have learned that we also probably need to hold off on our purchase of audio equipment [receivers].

It appears that both formats will be using Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby True HD along with DTS. [The three HD-DVDs released this week already use Dolby Digital Plus].

Although some of the latest high-end receiver offerings include HDMI input/output, it is not clear how easy it will be to upgrade them when the new HDMI v1.3 is issued.

Also, none of them seem to include either DD Plus and/or DT HD. Thus while the HD image will pass through the image to the display using HDMI - the encoded HD audio will not be able to be fully decoded [as always the new Dolby formats are backward compatible]

As a result of learning the above, my new receiver will NOT be a high-end one.

jim

My e-mail from Fox said they were disappointed at how Dish was handling the last HD game they agreed to air. I'll be writing again to see if they might intervene to get the game broadcast to the St. Louis market.
Joe,
Great...maybe you can get some results. I went a few "rounds" with Dish, and could not seem to get them past their position that since their HD broadcast is presented as part of the MLB EI package, MLB rules require it be blacked out in the home market....No kidding, huh! (BTW, I have the Dish MLB EI pkg, and Monday's game is listed in the EPG on 9467, and it is also listed as blacked out)
I tried to explain I believe it is the intent of the RSN, FSN, FSNMW, and FoxSports to specifically make the HD simulcast available in the St Louis home market.
Again, the response was, as long as the broadcast is a part of MLB EI it must be blacked out in the home market.
So, I explained how Charter handles it, and suggested if Dish were to broadcast the HD simulcast not linked to MLB EI it could be aired in the home market.
To that, the response was that is not a decision Dish has any say in, it is decided by Major League Baseball.
Obviously, one of the two providers is misinformed, either Dish or Charter. I cannot imagine there is some sort of different "rules" which apply to Cable vs DBS, or Charter vs Dish.

Thought my notes may be of some additional assistance to you....I hope YOU can break through.

Joe,
Great...maybe you can get some results. I went a few "rounds" with Dish, and could not seem to get them past their position that since their HD broadcast is presented as part of the MLB EI package, MLB rules require it be blacked out in the home market....No kidding, huh! (BTW, I have the Dish MLB EI pkg, and Monday's game is listed in the EPG on 9467, and it is also listed as blacked out)
I tried to explain I believe it is the intent of the RSN, FSN, FSNMW, and FoxSports to specifically make the HD simulcast available in the St Louis home market.
Again, the response was, as long as the broadcast is a part of MLB EI it must be blacked out in the home market.
So, I explained how Charter handles it, and suggested if Dish were to broadcast the HD simulcast not linked to MLB EI it could be aired in the home market.
To that, the response was that is not a decision Dish has any say in, it is decided by Major League Baseball.
Obviously, one of the two providers is misinformed, either Dish or Charter. I cannot imagine there is some sort of different "rules" which apply to Cable vs DBS, or Charter vs Dish.

Thought my notes may be of some additional assistance to you....I hope YOU can break through.

After my discussions with Dish support the last couple of days, I had zero expectaton of getting any satisfaction from them. I contacted Fox through a reference from my first e-mails. I figure they have a much better chance of moving Dish off its position than I do. The contact was Geoff Goldman, and he claimed that Fox was upset over what Dish did. He responded within a day of my e-mail. We'll see.

HD - DVD - Blu Ray Audio
------------------------------
Just as many of us are holding off on our purchase of HD-DVD and/or Blu Ray, have learned that we also probably need to hold off on our purchase of audio equipment [receivers].

It appears that both formats will be using Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby True HD along with DTS. [The three HD-DVDs released this week already use Dolby Digital Plus].

Although some of the latest high-end receiver offerings include HDMI input/output, it is not clear how easy it will be to upgrade them when the new HDMI v1.3 is issued.

Also, none of them seem to include either DD Plus and/or DT HD. Thus while the HD image will pass through the image to the display using HDMI - the encoded HD audio will not be able to be fully decoded [as always the new Dolby formats are backward compatible]

As a result of learning the above, my new receiver will NOT be a high-end one.

jim

The audio issues of the new format look to be more complicated than the video ones. The players do have 6 channel (5.1) analog outs for sound derived from the new audio codecs, and most current higher end receivers can handle those quite well. It does, however, eliminate the convenience of a single AV connector (HDMI) and a pure digital path to the receiver.

A discussion of the audio issues for HD-DVD can be found here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640949)

Beta v VHS

A comment about Beta vs VHS - a couple of factors helped VHS = maximum 8 hours recording time versus 5 for Beta. But probably more important was the 'support' by the Adult Video industry.

Jim

And RCA's marketing muscle was much bigger than Sony's back then, and they supported VHS.

Joe,
Thanks for that great news about Battlestar Galactica. I'll be counting on you to "hook me up". Sorry about your woes with the 622 dvr. I found out that I won't be able to keep my leased 942 and still lease the 622 as well. I'd have to buy the 622 at $799, and that AIN'T gonna happen. Hopefully I can get everything watched and cleared off the 942 before I swap it out.

I ordered mine before April 1st, hoping to get a jump on the rush for 622s. That date looked to open the floodgates for orders. I was going to hold on to my 921 and sell it later on eBay. Then I read about people ordering the 622 on April 1st and receiving it a week later. I was foolishly elated that the shortages I had read about seemed to be wrong. Stupid me. It just meant that figuring out Dish's distribution system was more than my feeble brain could manage. I'm now on the list for a straight swap out of my 921 for the 622. That's my personally owned, not leased, 921. Owned box for leased box - seems inequitable, but I really prefer the interface for the 211 and I didn't pay as much as some did for the 921, so I'm not complaining too hard. Unfair as it sounds, they're not forcing me to do it.

Hey I thought Goedekers was closing? I've seen a barrage of TV ads recently -- so are they staying in business?

It is going to be like BETA/VHS except that I would imagine that PQ for both formats are equal. Price IS and object and HD-DVD is first to the market with a better price. You know what mom and pop are going to buy. I don't think size means a thing except to people who record on computers. All that extra space on BR is just going to be filled with "Coming Attractions" and commercials. The way Sony works, you won't be able to skip through to get to why you purchased..err....(licensed?) the disk.

Walt

I'd wager picture quality for both will be virtually indistinguishable. Blu-ray has the space advantage, but a good deal of that will be eaten up by their decision to use MPEG2 for their initial releases, instead of VC1 (Microsoft) or MPEG4, both of which are more modern (and more efficient) codecs. HD DVD has plenty of room on a disk for a movie and extras, just lke Blu-ray. (Personally, I like VC1. What I've seen of it is great and the specs on paper and from people who have the gear to measure the signals say it's the codec we should be using now.)

If you want to visit the lunatic fringe, walk on over to the HD DVD/Blu-ray threads. Make a post in favor of HD DVD in the Blu-ray section (or vice versa) and you take your virtual life in your hands. It's like going into a Macintosh convention with a t-shirt that says, "PCs Rule, Dude!!!"

I personally don't care which wins. They both will serve the need equally as well, as far as I'm concerned. There will be other, even more spacious formats in the future, and the puny capacity of both will be laughed at. What's the big difference between 15 or 25GB when tomorrow there will be 300GB optical disks?

OK, now I'm caught up. I'm going to bed.

Joseph

I agree about the picture quality. It's DIGITAL, how can it be different except if the D/A ...oops there is no D/A. One must also remember about the Beta\VHS, I think Sony wanted an exorbitant licensing fee to manufacture Beta recorders. Didn't IBM try the same stuff with microchannel architecture? Anyone got microchannel architecture except on a storage shelf somewhere? It's probably running OS2...

Walt

After my discussions with Dish support the last couple of days, I had zero expectaton of getting any satisfaction from them. I contacted Fox through a reference from my first e-mails. I figure they have a much better chance of moving Dish off its position than I do. The contact was Geoff Goldman, and he claimed that Fox was upset over what Dish did. He responded within a day of my e-mail. We'll see.


Ken and Joe keep us updated. It would be great if there were some way to get this corrected.

Also, will today's game be broadcast in HD? I tried to go back and find the posted schedule we had of HD games, but could not, sorry. Edit: I found it sorry for trouble, no luck for HD today.

Does Charter and/or DirecTv offer the MLB EI package?
I'm trying to figure out how the "rules" apply.
tia

That's a pretty low signal strength and any deviation like weather can cause the problems you had. You only get 60-70 to begin with which is bordeline at best. If it fluctuates a lot (jumping from 40 to 60 for example) it's a multipath issue. Sounds like you need to try to point it better or get a different antenna.

Thanks for the reply Mo, and sorry my response is so long in coming (too much going on lately). I intend to enlist the help of my wife today and see if we can find a location/direction that acheives better signal strength. I didn't realize that 60-70% was borderline, but since digital is all or nothing, that makes sense.

Thanks,

Douglas

An OT question here for you guys....

How many of you are using an HDMI switcher? I think I'm going to need one and have no idea how these work and how expensive they are. I know there are some that are well over a hundred dollars -- are there any lower end? Since its a digital connection, it shouldn't make that much difference, right?

Thanks.

Does Charter and/or DirecTv offer the MLB EI package?
I'm trying to figure out how the "rules" apply.
tiaMLB EI used to be a DirecTV exclusive, but it's now available on DISH, and I think it's also on Charter.

An OT question here for you guys....

How many of you are using an HDMI switcher? I think I'm going to need one and have no idea how these work and how expensive they are. I know there are some that are well over a hundred dollars -- are there any lower end? Since its a digital connection, it shouldn't make that much difference, right?

Thanks.

I don't use one, but if I did I'd get it here.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&style=

If you don't mind switching manually then you can get a 2x1 for under $30 and a 4x1 for under $60.

-Mike

Joseph

I agree about the picture quality. It's DIGITAL, how can it be different except if the D/A ...oops there is no D/A. One must also remember about the Beta\VHS, I think Sony wanted an exorbitant licensing fee to manufacture Beta recorders. Didn't IBM try the same stuff with microchannel architecture? Anyone got microchannel architecture except on a storage shelf somewhere? It's probably running OS2...

Walt

If I remember correctly, for a looooong time Sony flat out didn't allow anyone else to make Beta recorders, period. They only relented and started letting Sanyo and Zenith make Beta machines only after they had already lost a huge share of the market to VHS. Turned out to be too little, too late... after a year or so, Sanyo and Zenith both switched to VHS.

I don't use one, but if I did I'd get it here.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&style=

If you don't mind switching manually then you can get a 2x1 for under $30 and a 4x1 for under $60.

-Mike

I just got the 5x1. I'll give a review when I get it hooked up. I will be using a Panasonic S97 and my HTPC (MSI K8NGM2-FID) using a DVI --> HDMI cable.
It will connect to a Panasonic AE-700. Eventually I will add a Dish 622 and some type of HD DVD/BluRay and a PS3.

Hopefully by then I will also have a new receiver that does Dolby TrueHD etc. and it will also have HDMI switching\upconverting so I can add a few more devices.

I would assume that both Denon and Yamaha will have a new Dolby/DTS format reciever for the 2007 model year.

Dave

I saw the Crestwood Best Buy HD DVD setup yesterday and they were using a new Westinghouse 1080p LCD. I didn't check the model number exactly, but I believe it's the one reviewed in the latest Home Theater - the LVM-42w2. I generally give less credence to reviews in this magazine than to those in a magazine such as Widescreen Review, and they're always less thorough. However, the color points measured close to SMPTE standards, but the color temp drifted a little at the high end and dropped more at low IRE. Generally, the review was favorable, and it mentioned nothing of the design flaws you talked about, Doug. If you get a chance, take a look and see if the review matches your observations.Joe, I haven't had a chance to track down the HTM review of the Westinghouse display, but I did read through the Audioholics review. Sorry I haven't been able to follow up on this more quickly, but I had a busy week and haven't spent much time around the forum as a result.

The key thing about the Audioholics review is that the Westinghouse display comes up considerably short of the HDTV color gamut, which is only slightly larger than the modified (1979) NTSC gamut, also known as SMPTE C. In fact, there's not really much point in presenting the HDTV gamut, as most video production and mastering continues to be done with SMPTE C monitors. But the difference between the SMPTE C and HDTV gamuts is probably less than 5%, so the graph used by Audioholics doesn't severely misrepresent things.

FWIW, the original NTSC color gamut (1953) was much larger than SMPTE C. Along with most of the rest of the NTSC standard, the original NTSC color gamut specification was based almost solely on theory, rather than actual prototypes. At the time, the NTSC scientific team didn't know if manufacturers would actually be able to develop or deploy suitable phosphors for the defined primary colors. In fact, they never were able to crack this, and this largely explains is why the more constricted SMPTE C gamut was ultimately introduced. The main issue was with the green primary, which they were able to match in color but only with phosphors that were overly persistent (they didn't go back to black quickly enough once electronic stimulation was removed from the phosphor).

Anyway, it's interesting to see that the Audioholics reviewer notes that the Westinghouse color gamut falls far short of the HDTV gamut, and then remarks that it really isn't a problem. Frankly, this is happening in more and more home theater equipment reviews, and for me further diminishes the value of ALL reviews. What's the point of making measurements if a reviewer doesn't understand or doesn't communicate the problems introduced when something has been designed or built improperly?

Because green makes up such a large portion of the color our eyes perceive, the green error, while regrettable, is probably difficult to detect, as the reviewer indicates. However, this overlooks the fact that the primary color points also determine where the secondary colors line up, and as you can see in the graph below, yellow is miles off the target point, which means when the color and tint controls are properly balanced, yellow will be routinely undersaturated. I would expect this to cause a problem not just with images containing a large share of yellow tones (yellows would start to go pastel), but it likely would be apparent in flesh tones as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56318&stc=1

Note that I had to "calculate" where yellow actually appears on the color gamut graph in the Audioholics review, because that point seems to be (conspicuously?) missing. What I've done to derive that point is to draw lines from the green to magenta color points and the red to cyan points. Where these lines intersect indicates where the white point is for the display at the luminance level used to measure the primary colors (presumably 75% or 100%). Now that I know where the white point is, I can draw a line from blue, through the white point to the far side of the Westinghouse color gamut triangle (and on through to the HDTV triangle). This shows us where yellow would line up in the Westinghouse color gamut, based on the primaries and the current white point.

No doubt this is more information than a lot of readers here care about, but I felt it would be useful to explain and illustrate why these sort of design flaws ultimately matter. Joe notes that the size of the display probably makes it unsuitable for use as a primary home theater display, and I think the design flaws and subsequent color errors seal that deal.

While this Westinghouse display would be acceptable as a secondary display, such as for late-night bedroom viewing, it's not a good choice for a primary or home theater display. And I believe it's a particularly poor choice for demonstrating a new technology such as HD DVD, which is going to look its best on a display that can fully exploit the potential for realistic, accurate images.

One of the conclusions I'm left with here is that Toshiba is ultimately more interested in showcasing its new Westinghouse brand than it is in giving HD DVD the best possible presentation to would-be buyers. I doubt Sony indulges in the same sort of muddled agenda when it finally unveils Blu-Ray.

Monday's game is being simulcast in HD, I'm not certain about Tuesday's.
Again, Dish will carry it on channel 9467, flagged as a MLB EI broadcast, which will mean it will be blacked-out in the St Louis market.
Charter subs should be able to get the broadcast in HD.
The Monday night game is being carried in HD by DTV according to the schedule (channel 95). The guide does list it as an MLB EI showing but hopefully, it won't be blacked out in the St Louis area and will be available to non MLB EI subscribers.

Joe, I haven't had a chance to track down the HTM review of the Westinghouse display, but I did read through the Audioholics review. Sorry I haven't been able to follow up on this more quickly, but I had a busy week and haven't spent much time around the forum as a result.

The key thing about the Audioholics review is that the Westinghouse display comes up considerably short of the HDTV color gamut, which is only slightly larger than the modified (1979) NTSC gamut, also known as SMPTE C. In fact, there's not really much point in presenting the HDTV gamut, as most video production and mastering continues to be done with SMPTE C monitors. But the difference between the SMPTE C and HDTV gamuts is probably less than 5%, so the graph used by Audioholics doesn't severely misrepresent things.

FWIW, the original NTSC color gamut (1953) was much larger than SMPTE C. Along with most of the rest of the NTSC standard, the original NTSC color gamut specification was based almost solely on theory, rather than actual prototypes. At the time, the NTSC scientific team didn't know if manufacturers would actually be able to develop or deploy suitable phosphors for the defined primary colors. In fact, they never were able to crack this, and this largely explains is why the more constricted SMPTE C gamut was ultimately introduced. The main issue was with the green primary, which they were able to match in color but only with phosphors that were overly persistent (they didn't go back to black quickly enough once electronic stimulation was removed from the phosphor).

Anyway, it's interesting to see that the Audioholics reviewer notes that the Westinghouse color gamut falls far short of the HDTV gamut, and then remarks that it really isn't a problem. Frankly, this is happening in more and more home theater equipment reviews, and for me further diminishes the value of ALL reviews. What's the point of making measurements if a reviewer doesn't understand or doesn't communicate the problems introduced when something has been designed or built improperly?

Because green makes up such a large portion of the color our eyes perceive, the green error, while regrettable, is probably difficult to detect, as the reviewer indicates. However, this overlooks the fact that the primary color points also determine where the secondary colors line up, and as you can see in the graph below, yellow is miles off the target point, which means when the color and tint controls are properly balanced, yellow will be routinely undersaturated. I would expect this to cause a problem not just with images containing a large share of yellow tones (yellows would start to go pastel), but it likely would be apparent in flesh tones as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56318&stc=1

Note that I had to "calculate" where yellow actually appears on the color gamut graph in the Audioholics review, because that point seems to be (conspicuously?) missing. What I've done to derive that point is to draw lines from the green to magenta color points and the red to cyan points. Where these lines intersect indicates where the white point is for the display at the luminance level used to measure the primary colors (presumably 75% or 100%). Now that I know where the white point is, I can draw a line from blue, through the white point to the far side of the Westinghouse color gamut triangle (and on through to the HDTV triangle). This shows us where yellow would line up in the Westinghouse color gamut, based on the primaries and the current white point.

No doubt this is more information than a lot of readers here care about, but I felt it would be useful to explain and illustrate why these sort of design flaws ultimately matter. Joe notes that the size of the display probably makes it unsuitable for use as a primary home theater display, and I think the design flaws and subsequent color errors seal that deal.

While this Westinghouse display would be acceptable as a secondary display, such as for late-night bedroom viewing, it's not a good choice for a primary or home theater display. And I believe it's a particularly poor choice for demonstrating a new technology such as HD DVD, which is going to look its best on a display that can fully exploit the potential for realistic, accurate images.

One of the conclusions I'm left with here is that Toshiba is ultimately more interested in showcasing its new Westinghouse brand than it is in giving HD DVD the best possible presentation to would-be buyers. I doubt Sony indulges in the same sort of muddled agenda when it finally unveils Blu-Ray.

Thanks for the info, Doug. I really need to read more about the color specs for both NTSC and HDTV. It's something I really would like to be more informed about.

The Monday night game is being carried in HD by DTV according to the schedule (channel 95). The guide does list it as an MLB EI showing but hopefully, it won't be blacked out in the St Louis area and will be available to non MLB EI subscribers.

Has anyone with a D* DVR had a chance to try to set this up for recording? Wouldn't this give a blackout message if that's the case? If we can bombard Dish with the info that both Charter and D* are providing the game in St. Louis, maybe we can get them to let us poor Dish subs have it, too.

The Monday night game is being carried in HD by DTV according to the schedule (channel 95). The guide does list it as an MLB EI showing but hopefully, it won't be blacked out in the St Louis area and will be available to non MLB EI subscribers.
Sandblaster,
Would you happen to know if the first FSN HD simulcast (4/10) was carried by DTV, and whether or not it was blacked out in STL? IIRC, only Charter subs could "see" that HD broadcast.
Also, if you're able, please let us know if the HD broadcast of Monday's game on DTV MLB EI is available in STL.
Thanks.

EDIT: Sorry Joe...misread. It appears by Scott's post it is available on DTV.
So, Charter and DTV can do it, guess we have to find a way to clue-in Dish.
My head hurts already!

Has anyone with a D* DVR had a chance to try to set this up for recording? Wouldn't this give a blackout message if that's the case? If we can bombard Dish with the info that both Charter and D* are providing the game in St. Louis, maybe we can get them to let us poor Dish subs have it, too.
Yes Joe, that's how I know it's blacked out. Two nights ago, the LAD/ARI game was on 9467 in HD, also as part of MLB EI. I set the DVR in the morning, and it accepted the timer. I then went to the Cards Monday night game, and got the blacked out message.

In fact, Westinghouse quotes its color gamut as 75% of the NTSC gamut. This comes directly from the manufacturer specifications which can be found here.

Doug,

Again, almost all current LCDs display 75% or so of the NTSC color gamut. This design flaw you cite is then common to most LCDs currently available. I agree that LCD has its limitations. However, when looking for a practical bedroom HDTV that offers a relatively large screen at only 4" deep, LCD is a good solution in today's world. I still beleive the LVM 37w3 is one of the best LCDs available

Has anyone with a D* DVR had a chance to try to set this up for recording? Wouldn't this give a blackout message if that's the case? If we can bombard Dish with the info that both Charter and D* are providing the game in St. Louis, maybe we can get them to let us poor Dish subs have it, too.

I have D*, and had no problem setting it to record.

Scott

As we discussed last time around, the Cards HD games on FSMW-HD that are carried by DISH should not be blacked out. There are no "black out" rules specific to HD productions, so if a "black out" rule were to apply, it would result in FSMW-SD presentation being blacked out, and of course we know that shouldn't happen.

I think the problem is how DISH has set up the customer entitlement code for FSMW-HD. Here's what I think is happening (and will likely happen on DirecTV, too):

* Both DirecTV and DISH carry most of the regional sports networks and when you subscribe to one of their basic packages, your receiver is "entitled" to receive the regional sports network(s) relevant to your ZIP code.

* On DirecTV (and I assume on DISH), you also have the option of subscribing to an additional tier of sports channels that includes some of the sport-specific channels such as Golf and Speed. On DirecTV, this package also provides you with all of the regional sports channels that are available on the DirecTV system. However, whenever one of these regional sports channels carries a live sports event, that out-of-market regional sport channel will go black until the event ends.

* In the case of MLB games on the regional sports nets, the only way to get around that is to subscribe to MLB EI. If you subscribe to MLB EI and if that game is one of the games on the EI schedule for that day (not all MLB games are available via EI on any given day), then you could watch the game on either the normal regional sports channel or on the channel where it appears in the EI group of channels.

There is one exception to this and that is if the EI broadcast for the game involving your home team is originated by the opponent's regional sports network. In that situation, the game would be blacked out to you, even if you are an EI subscriber.

* Because FSMW-HD doesn't have a permanent, assigned channel on either DirecTV or DISH, there's probably no simple way to set up the customer entitlement on a ZIP code basis, because that channel slot was used for some other regional sports HD channel yesterday and will be used for yet a different regional sports HD channel tomorrow. As a result, these channels are set up only with entitlements for the EI package. If you have the EI package, you would be able to see the FSMW-HD games when they appear on these DISH or DirecTV channels.

When the first FSMW-HD Blues game was carried on DirecTV, the game wasn't initially available. I called DirecTV and 30 minutes later, after talking with a couple of customer service reps and a supervisor, I was able to see that game in HD. This would indicate that there is a way to manually entitle a receiver for these multi-purpose HD channels on DirecTV, but I don't expect that will happen without calling DirecTV on Monday -- and even then, I'd guess it's no better than a 50/50 proposition that I find someone who will entitle my receiver for the game before LaRussa makes the first call to the bullpen.

Also, it's worth noting that just because the Cardinals-Pirates game appears on the DirecTV channel 95 schedule for Monday, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the FSMW-HD broadcast -- it could be the FS-Pittsburgh production, in which case the MLB blackout rule would apply in St. Louis even if you are an EI subscriber.

I'll check in with our FSMW contact on Monday morning to see if the FSMW-HD game will be/should be available to DISH and/or DirecTV subscribers Monday night. I'm going to be out from midmorning to midafternoon, but will try to update here as soon as I can.

I have D*, and had no problem setting it to record.

Scott

Same here, got it setup on the HD Tivo now. Thanks for the heads up guys, I had to cancel my normal recording on Fox Sports Midwest and tell it to grab the game on 95.

FSNMW has updated the availability of Monday's HD broadcast on it's web page (http://msn.foxsports.com/story/5455460) :


7:00 p.m. HD on Charter Ch. 792 and DirecTV 95 (available on Dish 9428 and 9467, but only to MLB Extra Innings subscribers outside of Cardinals territory)

Tuesday's game is not listed as being available on D*

I just got the 5x1. I'll give a review when I get it hooked up. I will be using a Panasonic S97 and my HTPC (MSI K8NGM2-FID) using a DVI --> HDMI cable.
It will connect to a Panasonic AE-700. Eventually I will add a Dish 622 and some type of HD DVD/BluRay and a PS3.

Hopefully by then I will also have a new receiver that does Dolby TrueHD etc. and it will also have HDMI switching\upconverting so I can add a few more devices.

I would assume that both Denon and Yamaha will have a new Dolby/DTS format reciever for the 2007 model year.

Dave

Yes, please do post that review. I'm definitely looking forward to reading it. I will be doing the same w/ my HTPC, so how the device handles that will also factor into whether or not I'll buy it. Thanks!

So Monday night's game will be blacked out on Dish, right?

Yes, please do post that review. I'm definitely looking forward to reading it. I will be doing the same w/ my HTPC, so how the device handles that will also factor into whether or not I'll buy it. Thanks!

I got it installed in my system last night. Right now I only have 2 devices connected. I have my Panasonic S97 (HDMI->HDMI) and my HTPC (DVI->HDMI) both connected to the HDMI switch and that's connected to my Panasonic AE-700.

Since the signal is all digital I don't see any signal degradation. Of course I didn't see any signal degredation from my Audio Authority Component switch either. Since I don't have an HDMI receiver this review will strictly be limited to video switching.

The device is very small, about the size of a D-Link switch. 6 HDMI ports on the back (5 in, 1 out). LED's and a select button on the fromt. It comes with a small remote which has 7 buttons. 5 discrete slectors and a set of up/down buttons. From what I've read these can be programed into a learning remote (Girder and an IR blaster will handle device switching for me once I get things programmed)

I was most interested in how it handles the HDCP handshake. My first test to fire up a DVD and check ofr the 720P/HDMI lights on my DVD player. The picture came up and the indicator lights lit up. Next I switched to my PC. no picture. Since I did not have anything connected to video before, and I had not rebooted since hooking up the switch so I assume the DVI was inactive. I rebooted the PC and the screen came up. I switched back and forth between my two sources without issues. A slight delay occurs while the signal get's re-aquired, but it's not more than a few seconds.

The next step was to see if everything worked OK after being shut down overnight (the HDMI switch remained ON) I fired up the dvd player and the projector first. Again the 720P/HDMI lights lit up. Switched over to PC and moved the mouse and the desktop appeared. Just as expected. I'm debating connecting the HDMI switch to my switched power outlet on the back of my receiver. If I do I'll post an update of how it handles the switch being of when the DVD and projector come on.

Overall I would recommend this to anyone who has more HDMI devices than ports.
Looks like no more switching cables for me!!!

The manual that comes with says it handles 1080P. I can't wait to get a HDMI capable receiver, but that must wait for the Dolby TrueHD models.

Thanks for the info, Doug. I really need to read more about the color specs for both NTSC and HDTV. It's something I really would like to be more informed about.Joe,

The links below are to a detailed series of article written by Dr. Raymond Soneira of DisplayMate fame. If I'm not mistaken, this article first appeared in Widescreen Review, and then was serialized on the Extreme Tech web site.

There's a lot of really good information in this article for anyone who's curious to learn more about proper imaging and why it's important. There's also an objective discussion of the inherent differences and strengths/weaknesses of different display technologies, including CRT, plasma, DLP, LCOS and LCD.

Be warned this is a long series of articles, so you may want to plan to read it in several sittings, bookmarking where you leave off each time.

This article appears to have been written around midyear 2004, and although I haven't re-read it recently, I believe that most of what is included is still valid.

Joe, a lot of the basic information is stuff you already know well, so I've also included a link to the section that discusses primary colors if you want to jump to that section.

Note that there's a table of contents for the article at the bottom of each web page.

Beginning of Display Technology Shoot-Out Article:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1734427,00.asp

Primary Chromaticity Section:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1737351,00.asp

Excellent review. Thanks!

Now, I just have to wait for them to get in stock or something. The 2x1 has an ETA of May 10, but the 4x1 has no ETA at all. That's the problem with having a product that works so well at such a good price and in such high demand. Who knows, maybe the 2x1 would work for me.

Excellent review. Thanks!

Now, I just have to wait for them to get in stock or something. The 2x1 has an ETA of May 10, but the 4x1 has no ETA at all. That's the problem with having a product that works so well at such a good price and in such high demand. Who knows, maybe the 2x1 would work for me.

I was looking at the ETA's above and it looks like you're looking at the manual switch models. I have the electronic model (ETA 4/26)

I'll have to check, I don't think mine has the built-in EQ. It only took 3 or 4 days to arrive after ordering. I would wait and get the 5x1. It's only about $30 more than the 2x and you get 3 more ports. If you get the 2x you will be sorry later.

Now... Anyone looking for an Audio Authority 1154 Component video switch?
I'll be putting mine on ebay soon...

From the posted article:

"The CRT wins by a huge factor of about 25. It barely produces any detectable light when set to black. The flat panels all produce a noticeable dark-gray glow for black. The CRT's enormous black-level advantage is the major reason why it remains the technology of choice for home theater perfectionists. (Note that the black-level luminance of a CRT can be reduced even more by turning the Black-Level Control further down into a "blacker-than-black" regime, but this will cause a loss of the lower end of the gray scale.) "

Doug

There's something about the article I don't understand. How can a signal that takes a display below 7.5 IRE (blacker than black) destroy any portion of the gray scale above 7.5 IRE? If the gray scale is a true 6500K, blacker than black or whiter than white will do nothing to the scale between 7.5IRE and 100IRE unless this is only peculiar to their "reference Sony Monitor". If that is the case, the above statement is VERY misleading.

There are other things about the article that has my brain swimming, but I have not read the whole thing.

Walt

I've got a TIVO'y question for those that check such things. I know D* HD comes in at 1280x1080, I have just recently started checking my SD stuff and see that Shotime comes in at 480x480 and NBC comes in at 544x480. Is this the same for the folks that have the HD Tivo on SD stations? Is this the same size as non tivo D* recievers? Is this why the compression looks so bad on SD or is it also bitrate? (Note, I don't have an HD TIVO)
Thanks
Dug

Channel allocation question: I know KMOV has elected for 24/30 (as mentioned here); is 39 KETC's final allocation? They had some dismissed applications in for 40. Could they revert back to a VHF-High slot on 9 again? WSIU is reverting back to 8. KFVS is reverting back to 12, and the Hannibal/Quincy stations are reverting back to thier VHF-High spots.

I just got a response from Geoff at Fox about HD Cardinals coverage for tonight's game. Looks like we are out of luck again. I thanked him for his prompt response and said I wished Dish would listen as well.

DirecTV subs, please let us know if you are able to get the coverage. If you can, then I'd like to consider an organized e-mail protest to Dish from those of us who are so disappointed about how they are handling this.

I just got a response from Geoff at Fox about HD Cardinals coverage for tonight's game. Looks like we are out of luck again. I thanked him for his prompt response and said I wished Dish would listen as well.

DirecTV subs, please let us know if you are able to get the coverage. If you can, then I'd like to consider an organized e-mail protest to Dish from those of us who are so disappointed about how they are handling this.

I'll let you know. The only HD games I remember not being able to get is when it is a home game on ESPN HD.

Scott

Thanks for the update Joe.
At this point I'm going to hold off on exchanging my Dish 921 for a Dish 622. I had planned on placing the order this week, but I can wait till the end of the deadline. I hope that with launch of D*'s new SAT they will be able to add more HD (and hopefully start transmitting 1920x1080)

Thanks for the update Joe.
At this point I'm going to hold off on exchanging my Dish 921 for a Dish 622. I had planned on placing the order this week, but I can wait till the end of the deadline. I hope that with launch of D*'s new SAT they will be able to add more HD (and hopefully start transmitting 1920x1080)


When is the end of the deadline? I am still considering keeping my 942 to run as well as a new 622 when i get it.

From a post on dbstalk.com


DISH Network is excited about the upcoming $200 equipment credit promotion. This promotion will be available to customers who exchange their existing 921 or 942 receivers for a ViP622 HD/DVR through our DISHN’ It Up receiver upgrade program.

To deliver the best customer experience, we have created a temporary support line beginning April 1st. Please contact us at 1-888-825-2569 and follow the prompts. A special group of trained customer service representatives will help you with your upgrade questions. This toll free number will be active from 8:00 AM EST on April 1st and will remain active until initial demand has been fulfilled.

You should expect shipment of the ViP622 within an estimated 2-3 weeks from your order date. This is based on our current demand.

We value your business. If you are not ready to exchange your receiver or upgrade to our new DishHD programming, we understand. The $200.00 equipment credit promotion will be available until August 1, 2006. Take your time, and when you are ready, we will be here.

In closing, please understand that this toll free number is only for customers with existing 921 and 942 receivers who wish to upgrade to a ViP622. If you have other concerns or are calling after the special hotline is no longer available, please call 1-800-333-3474 (DISH).

We would like to make your participation in this promotion as easy and convenient as possible. Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,
DISH Network Customer Support


So the refund is good till August 1.

No, but it will allow me to play BR disks. If the video quality is good (matching dtheater) then I can wait for a 3rd gen BR DVD solution (hopefully by then BR will be king). If HD DVD has won, then I can buy one of those and still play my BR along with games on my PS3.

If MS bundles an HD-DVD with their Xbox 360 I may just break down and buy one of those as well.

As far as video quality issues, I have an $80 motherboard that has onboard Video, SATA Raid, 8ch HD Audio and a DVI connector. I use it for my MCE PC with a Dvico HD tuner card feeding my Panasonic AE700. The video quality is equal to if not better than my Dish 921 DVR. I think the internal hardware is more of an issue for upconversion of SD-DVD. For that I have my current Panasonic. I'm sure the higher end players will have better video, but again I'll buy that when Gen 3 hits the shelves.

Like I said, I've yet to put a DVD in any game system, but because of this need to battle formats, I'll sample both blu-ray and hd-dvd via PS3 and 360. Is it what I want? No. Is it ideal? No. But that's all I care to give to the industry until it has its sh*t together. As I type this, I still contemplate buying an OPPO player.

I love my Oppo. I'm in no rush for a next-gen anything at the moment :-)

Sorry for the OT conversation, but I know a lot of you are computer types so I thought I'd ask. Our office is looking at getting flat panel LCD monitors for everyone. For a test. I purchased a Viewsonic 20" widescreen that arrived today and an Acer 19" widescreen that should be here in a day or two. The Viewsonic has an optimal screen resolution of 1680x1050 and the Acer's is 1440x900.

I don't know if it's just my eyes (40 yr old eyes) or what, but the 1680x1050 resolution actually hurts my eyes and really doesn't seem very clear. This is a 1 year old Dell with XP and an Nvidia GeForce 6800 card. I did install the monitor software that came with it. (I know you can increase the font used by Windows under the Advanced settings, but if you were reading an e-mail in Outlook, that doesn't help that.) For some reason, text just seems kind of blurry. Especially if it's on a white background.

Does anyone else have this kind of problem? The other people in my office don't seem to think it's as bad as I think it is, but they also are saying that they don't think it's super clear either.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. You can PM if you don't want to clutter up the board.

EDIT: I was using the analog cable and switched to the DVI. It did seem to help with the clarity.