So..NO ONE else had a problem with audio mixing during the CMAs? Again..I was using a D* H20 MP4 for reception..not OTA. Audio mixing was strange, almost as if I was listening to the surround channels and not the fronts. I heard background vocals, acoustic guitar, and harmonica mostly for the tune by Miranda Lambert. This was using the analog L/R outputs of the box directly to the TV. I didn't try the digital output through the receiver.

Scott,

Yes they still do Country Days in Farmington. They have been doing it for a number of years. I used to take my son to it when he was younger but now that he is HS he does not like to go anymore.

My wife enjoys going to the craft fair/booths that are always at Country Days.

BTW: I also live in Farmington. :)

Country days was fun. We had a audio/video business in Farmington for about 5 years. Our store would participate in country days. I'll never forget the "bed races" down the main st. through town. Great place Farmington. I used to get so mad at the local cable company though because Showtime never reached my home in stereo, so my dolby digital decoder never worked in the stereo. Nice to watch movies on Showtime with no surround sound.

Scott

So..NO ONE else had a problem with audio mixing during the CMAs? Again..I was using a D* H20 MP4 for reception..not OTA. Audio mixing was strange, almost as if I was listening to the surround channels and not the fronts. I heard background vocals, acoustic guitar, and harmonica mostly for the tune by Miranda Lambert. This was using the analog L/R outputs of the box directly to the TV. I didn't try the digital output through the receiver.
I just played her song back....Miranda Lambert....the mix sounds normal to me, and no change from the rest of the show.
Audio is connected digital between receiver and surround system.

My other is the same receiver connected L/R to the TV's built-in surround...I'll check it later on, and see if there is any difference. Same receivers, same TV's.

OK, that's a silly headline, but I read about multi-layer red laser technology years ago and wondered what ever happened to it. Apparently, the technology has resurfaced in the form of NME, a company that has produced 20-40GB red laser discs (with more storage capacity on the horizon). Apparently, the main problem in the past has been low yields of multi-layer formats. No more. And the new technology uses existing DVD production lines. This could spell trouble for HD DVD and Blu-ray if they don't get their acts together fast. It would serve them right.

The company already has a player and recordable media developed. Here's the link.

NME - multi-layer red laser DVD technology. (http://www.nmeinc.com/)

Those of you waiting out the blue laser format war before leaping in are looking smarter and smarter.

OK, that's a silly headline, but I read about multi-layer red laser technology years ago and wondered what ever happened to it. Apparently, the technology has resurfaced in the form of NME, a company that has produced 20-40GB red laser discs (with more storage capacity on the horizon). Apparently, the main problem in the past has been low yields of multi-layer formats. No more. And the new technology uses existing DVD production lines. This could spell trouble for HD DVD and Blu-ray if they don't get their acts together fast. It would serve them right.

The company already has a player and recordable media developed. Here's the link.

NME - multi-layer red laser DVD technology. (http://www.nmeinc.com/)

Those of you waiting out the blue laser format war before leaping in are looking smarter and smarter.
Appropriately posted, the day following the country's election.

My gut had decided, even though it's usually wrong, to sit tight until the dual-format units were mainstreamed into the market, perhaps somewhere in the 3-500 $ range. A HD DVD/BluRay dual format player is inevitable, eventually the lawyers would get bored, and move on to something else.
Figuring by then, if another format was to emerge, the way things develop seemingly overnight these days, it would be by then.

I think Joe should be responsible for keeping us all up to speed on this development.....any seconds? :D

I second.

Question for WRACER or anyone else in the KNOW.

How does DirecTV receive the feed for HD Locals or SD Locals? I know I have read information
here that says Charter grabs the feed OTA and then sends it to the consumer. How do the
satellite providers do it?

I'm asking because it seems that the local HD channels via DirecTV look crisper than OTA.

Question for WRACER or anyone else in the KNOW.

How does DirecTV receive the feed for HD Locals or SD Locals? I know I have read information
here that says Charter grabs the feed OTA and then sends it to the consumer. How do the
satellite providers do it?

I'm asking because it seems that the local HD channels via DirecTV look crisper than OTA.
Interesting question...wish I knew the answer. I will chime in this. On DISH, the SAT HD locals are definitely softer than the OTA's. There's little doubt, and anyone who has them both, has said the same, which makes sense.

It's difficult to understand how any rebroadcast could possibly be an improvement over OTA. All things equal, STB/decoder, I would think OTA is as pure as it can get.

Appropriately posted, the day following the country's election.

My gut had decided, even though it's usually wrong, to sit tight until the dual-format units were mainstreamed into the market, perhaps somewhere in the 3-500 $ range. A HD DVD/BluRay dual format player is inevitable, eventually the lawyers would get bored, and move on to something else.
Figuring by then, if another format was to emerge, the way things develop seemingly overnight these days, it would be by then.

I think Joe should be responsible for keeping us all up to speed on this development.....any seconds? :D

I'll do my best.

For the idiots out there (like me), I just saw in the south county Best Buy today that the Toshiba HD DVD player is on closeout for $400 - probably because the second generation players are due any time now. That's not a bad buy for a lunatic (like me). Read up on the A2 if you're waiting for gen 2 players. Apparently, it lacks some features the Toshiba A1 has, so gen 2 isn't necessarily better than gen 1 in some ways. Price should be the same, though.

I read further on the NME technology. Apparently it can also accomodate both HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of films on the same physical disc (same side, even), in addition to the red laser capabilities. How's that for confusing the issue?

Thanks for checking KDG..did you receive OTA? Maybe something with D*'s re-transmission?? It was definately different than rest of the program. I didn't watch it all but her's and Vince Gill's sounded like the surround channels as the front channels.

Thanks for checking KDG..did you receive OTA? Maybe something with D*'s re-transmission?? It was definitely different than rest of the program. I didn't watch it all but her's and Vince Gill's sounded like the surround channels as the front channels.
I have to look. I know we recorded it on both DVR's, and usually when we do that, we do one OTA and the other SAT HD local. I'm going to look at them both again tonight....stay tuned.

It's not like there's any baseball on to watch....I read it's only been 10 days...I'll never make it to February!

I finished Doug's survey when he first posted it here some time ago. I wanted to comment on how well thought out it was. I'd urge everyone who can to participate. It's an organized, well thought out survey that has the potential to yield some very useful information. It would be great if our providers would use such a tool to let them know better what their viewers want.

Why bother. He is just going to twist it around to say whatever he wants anyway. He is has no credibility as far as I am concerned.

Why bother. He is just going to twist it around to say whatever he wants anyway. He is has no credibility as far as I am concerned.


That comment :rolleyes: convinced me to take the survey.
I appreciate Doug's contributions to this forum.

Why bother. He is just going to twist it around to say whatever he wants anyway. He is has no credibility as far as I am concerned.
Yes, me too and I sure don't understand why someone would make such a comment. Nice survery, Doug.

Yes, me too and I sure don't understand why someone would make such a comment. Nice survery, Doug.Eventually he'll be on everyone's ignore list and his inane posts will go unread.

Yes, me too and I sure don't understand why someone would make such a comment. Nice survery, Doug.
Ferl, Sand,
Mostly everybody here has this member blocked. So, unless someone quotes his/hers posts, we don't even know they're there.
By all means, do and say whatever you choose, but most of us would prefer he/she remain transparent....thanks :)

I finally took the time to do the survey. Very nicely done and well thought out.

Thanks for checking KDG..did you receive OTA? Maybe something with D*'s re-transmission?? It was definitely different than rest of the program. I didn't watch it all but her's and Vince Gill's sounded like the surround channels as the front channels.
Clue,
I watched her song again. In the living room, it is recorded via OTA, and the audio is fed via toslink to the surround system.
In the bedroom, it is recorded via the SAT HD locals, and the audio is fed via R/L to the TV's enclosed surrounds.

The audio mix in the bedroom was pretty much as you described...a mess. The center was much lower, the surrounds stood out in the foreground, and seemed hit and miss in the mix.

I hadn't noticed anything when I first viewed it on the living-room unit, but after watching it again in the bedroom, and then returning to the living-room, I noticed some difference, though it was not as noticeable in the living-room.

The issue was only during her song. The audio was fine immediately before and after, so I think it may have been something to do with her own bring-with mixing crew.

Thanks for the feedback on the survey, guys.

I appreciate ALL feedback -- positive or negative. I put a fair number of hours into this over the past month and I'd like to refine it further and use it again down the road.

Please be as specific as possible if you have any comments or suggestions. I have already received a couple of PMs on minor errors, so those will definitely get addressed in a future version, assuming the respond rate makes it worthwhile to do again.

For anyone who didn't see the note on ths yesterday, here's a link to the survey:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=770152748968

Thanks again.

but when I go into a page or scroll, I get this almost full-screen white flash sometimes 2 or 3 times a page. Is this normal?
No. It must be related to whatever video card you have. I also use Firefox 2, and scrolling in this forum is smooth and stays black. (ATI Radeon 9600 video)

kmov 4-2 ??? anybody else see this yet? i get a signal, no pic though.

survey: i briefly looked at it, why would any one slam it? seemed like a pretty straight forward thing, only 1 problem doug, we here are a lousy sample group, we're all avs nuts.

dominicr, thanks for checking out the survey.

There's been a lot of discussion about 4-2 and subchannels generally over the past couple of days. Scroll back three or four pages and you can find all the details. Long story short: it was used short term for election coverage, but they apparently have longer-term plans in the similar vein to KSDK.

Yes, me too and I sure don't understand why someone would make such a comment. Nice survery, Doug.

If you read his posts long enough you will see why. All he does is bash Charter, bash KSDK, make numerous false statements, and is highly critical of nearly everyone and everything.

Question for WRACER or anyone else in the KNOW.

How does DirecTV receive the feed for HD Locals or SD Locals? I know I have read information
here that says Charter grabs the feed OTA and then sends it to the consumer. How do the
satellite providers do it?

I'm asking because it seems that the local HD channels via DirecTV look crisper than OTA.

The answer is....30,5,4,and 2 feed the analog signal to Direct via fiber, but they get the digital feed off air. Dish is all off air. We're also feeding the new AT&T HD service that should roll out by year end via fiber. BTW we feed Charter the analog feed on fiber also.
Jim

No. It must be related to whatever video card you have. I also use Firefox 2, and scrolling in this forum is smooth and stays black. (ATI Radeon 9600 video)

Funny. My video card on that system is a Radeon 9600. I'm going to try a reinstall. Maybe something went wonky.

Funny. My video card on that system is a Radeon 9600. I'm going to try a reinstall. Maybe something went wonky.
Joe,
Was it acting out before you installed that Pinnacle HD capture thingie? I can't rem where/when, but I once read something about Pinnacle software causing some odd behaviors in an XP OS. Probably unrelated, it was 2+ years ago when I read it...just a thought :)

Joe,
Was it acting out before you installed that Pinnacle HD capture thingie? I can't rem where/when, but I once read something about Pinnacle software causing some odd behaviors in an XP OS. Probably unrelated, it was 2+ years ago when I read it...just a thought :)

I can't recall for sure, but I had the same thought. I may just True Image back to before the Pinnacle install. I've had issues with other Pinnacle software in the past. I reinstalled Firefox, the Radeon drivers and Microsoft .Net Framework, but it's still flashing bright white for me. (The Pinnacle installer insisted on installing .Net Framework 1.1, even though I had upgraded to 2.0.) Pinnacle is not my favorite company.

Net Framework 1.1, even though I had upgraded to 2.0.)
BINGO Joe! Roll it back. Firefox 2.0 runs best with net framework 2.0.

My video card on that system is a Radeon 9600.
I've always had trouble figuring out what parts of the Radeon software to install, and what parts are the real "drivers" and what are really just setup wizards. It seems like even the install order is critical, but the installation wizard doesn't necessarily lead you through the right steps of the recipe.

That said, I have also noticed that the very newest drivers tend to sacrifice some stability in favor of gaming speed. I think mine are the next-to-newest right now -- not at home machine, so cannot tell you the exact version.

We're also feeding the new AT&T HD service that should roll out by year end via fiber.
Jim, do you know of any plans for local stations to license multiple channels so they don't have to compromise the main digital channel's quality by over-compressing? I've seen some concerts on 9-1 that are so compressed the faces of the performers get that pasty appearance.

(Yes, the same Dan who you know in relation to "#30" and #19".)

Eventually he'll be on everyone's ignore list and his inane posts will go unread.

jimglobe is already on my ignore list. I recommend everyone do the same.

I went out to Best Buy and picked up one of the Pinnacle HD Pro Sticks. After installing on my IBM laptop the machine go t a little unstable and I ended up having to reimage the whole machine. Of course, once I reimaged I went back and reinstalled the HD Pro Stick. All seems very stable now and what a cool little device. I hope it doesn't compromise my machine. I was having stability problems anyway before.

The answer is....30,5,4,and 2 feed the analog signal to Direct via fiber, but they get the digital feed off air. Dish is all off air. We're also feeding the new AT&T HD service that should roll out by year end via fiber. BTW we feed Charter the analog feed on fiber also.
Jim

One more question Jim..Sorry.

If the HD feed gets fed via fiber, would it be at full bandwidth, or is it throttled like
it would be OTA.

Basically I'm asking if KDNL broadcast 30-1 and 30-2, and they share bandwidth for
both of those channels via OTA, would a fiber link get full bandwidth or would it
be a shared number also?

"DirecTV service recommends personalized programming"

This could be interesting but I kept getting a error when I tried accessing "My Tv Planner".

Article (http://news.com.com/2100-1026_3-6133848.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news)

Token

Where is the My Tv Planner located?

Nevermind, I found it.

They have to get rid of the subchannel on KMOV. What a dramatic reduction in PQ :-(

That's all I'm saying for now.

DirecTV tech support called me yesterday to ask for more information about the problems I have with audio dropouts. He told me that fixing the 6.3a software is a top priority, and that they know it's an important issue and are working to get it resolved ASAP. I talked to him for about 15 minutes about my 2 HR10-250s and how they are setup and configured. Then he called about 30 minutes later because a developer wanted clarification on something I said.

I'm going to take that as a good sign they are on top of getting this fixed quickly. If they don't then I may call retention and request they replace my hardware with HR20s.

jimglobe is already on my ignore list. I recommend everyone do the same.

I am shaking my remote control in anger. :eek:

If they don't then I may call retention and request they replace my hardware with HR20s.

I would wait on that as long as you can. Until they activate OTA, I am not replacing
my two HR10-250's. I replaced my 3rd HR10-250 recently with a HR20 and it is kind
of buggy and it is not being used as my main DVR.

My $.02.

JimGlobe,

Can we just call a truce? Seriously. Not everyone agrees with everyone, but we all are
relatively easy to get along with. Can we all just put everything behind us and let it go?

People here have met at others house and have a "working" relationship. Don't make this
a you against them or them against you. The negativity tends to result in non-listening and
I think you might have some good observations as do others but the non-working relationship
here is making it hard to focus on the real discussions.

SOAPBOX off

JimGlobe,

Can we just call a truce? Seriously. Not everyone agrees with everyone, but we all are
relatively easy to get along with. Can we all just put everything behind us and let it go?I'm willing to turn off my ignore list and accept him as a regular forum member if he wants to participate in a friendly manner. Let me know.

Greetings all,

I thought Id post this here first.

We are growing pretty quickly (thanks in part to AVS forum members) and we need some help

Antennas Direct has a need for an inside sales / support person

We are looking for someone who can answer basic questions about HD OTA and help guide customers to the right antenna.

The calls fall in to 3 basic categories
1.) what antenna should I buy?
2.) I bought an antenna and my HD is all snowy
3.) where's my stuff?

Our offices are in Eureka, 1 mile east of Six Flags. It would be temporary with the possibility of permanent employment.

I'll be happy to go into greater detail on job description and pay just send me a note.

We would like someone who find this subject interesting and would be happy working with people until they are successful in getting their OTA HD signals. We take customer service seriously, so this person may have to be patient with those customers who are just getting into HD for the first time.

If you are interested or know someone who has some enthusiasm for HD feel free to PM me

Best regards

Richard Schneider
Antennas Direct

I am shaking my remote control in anger. :eek:

Now that is funny. :D

I would put you on my ignore list, but I'd be afraid I would't see any more of the crazy things you say.

I vote for Antenna's Direct to hire Mo. She has clearly become an antenna expert.

Scott

Where is the My Tv Planner located?
Nevermind, I found it.

Did the Planner load for you?
I got an error with IE7 and Firefox.
Wondering if it's our firewall . ..


Thanks,
Token

Greetings all,

I thought Id post this here first.

We are growing pretty quickly (thanks in part to AVS forum members) and we need some help...OK, call me the forum curmudgeon, but aren't these kinds of posts against forum guidelines. I personally do not want to have to start wading through ads, help-wanted, etc. posts here.

OK, call me the forum curmudgeon, but aren't these kinds of posts against forum guidelines. I personally do not want to have to start wading through ads, help-wanted, etc. posts here.

OK I'll call you a curmudgeon

(and I apologize if this violates forum rules)

We're not touting a get rich quick scheme. Actually, I kind of wanted to give back a little to the AVS community.

We are an AVS sponsor (as well as a member for 6 years) and The proposed position would be directly relevant to the topics posted on this forum.

It would be a good opportunity for those who kvetch about HD service and products a chance to work on the other side of the table.

I thought This would be of mutual benefit -maybe not.

OK I'll call you a curmudgeon

We're not touting a get rich quick scheme. Actually, I kind of wanted to give back a little to the AVS community.

We are an AVS sponsor (as well as a member for 6 years) and The proposed position would be directly relevant to the topics posted on this forum.

It would be a good opportunity for those who kvetch about HD service and products a chance to work on the other side of the table.

I thought This would be of mutual benefit -maybe not.

Right on! I thought it was very thoughtful for you to post it here. I for one appreciate the thought. In fact, for $75k I'll come sell everything you have. :D

Scott

Right on! I thought it was very thoughtful for you to post it here. I for one appreciate the thought. In fact, for $75k I'll come sell everything you have. :D

Scott

welcome aboard! - I should point out that you'll be paid in antennas

I vote for Antenna's Direct to hire Mo. She has clearly become an antenna expert.

Scott

Thanks for your vote Scott. I actually have become a bit of an expert and I love hardware. HD TV, PC, etc. It's just so far away and the gas money would be insane.

DirecTV tech support called me yesterday to ask for more information about the problems I have with audio dropouts. He told me that fixing the 6.3a software is a top priority, and that they know it's an important issue and are working to get it resolved ASAP. I talked to him for about 15 minutes about my 2 HR10-250s and how they are setup and configured. Then he called about 30 minutes later because a developer wanted clarification on something I said.

I'm going to take that as a good sign they are on top of getting this fixed quickly. If they don't then I may call retention and request they replace my hardware with HR20s.

Dean, you should be able to get them to include the free HD package or something. When I called about the audio issues, my OTA signal strength meter not showing up and requiring a reboot they offered me $10 off my bill for 6 months. But the HR20's may be the better deal if you know that's what you want.

Dean, you should be able to get them to include the free HD package or something. When I called about the audio issues, my OTA signal strength meter not showing up and requiring a reboot they offered me $10 off my bill for 6 months. But the HR20's may be the better deal if you know that's what you want.I am getting the HD package free for a while. If they can fix the HR10s I have I'd rather keep them for now, since I do have OTA HD tuning and the TIVO interface.

Saw this over on the HD Tivo forum, get your HD DVR's ready:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
November 9, 2006

Live! From the International Space Station
Discovery HD Theater Airs Exclusive First Ever LIVE HD Downlink:
Space Station Live: HD
Wednesday, November 15 at 11:30 a.m. ET (primetime replay at 9pm E/P).

For the first time ever, a live high-definition downlink from the International Space Station will allow Discovery HD Theater subscribers the clearest look yet at Earth. Never before have HD cameras transmitted (broadcast) live from space - until now. The downlink is made possible through an exclusive cooperative effort by NASA, Discovery Communications, Inc. and NHK.

------------
The rest of article here....... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...3&&#post8855003

Jim, do you know of any plans for local stations to license multiple channels so they don't have to compromise the main digital channel's quality by over-compressing? I've seen some concerts on 9-1 that are so compressed the faces of the performers get that pasty appearance.

(Yes, the same Dan who you know in relation to "#30" and #19".)

Hey Dan,
We don't need to "license" additional channels. We have 19mb to play with and can put numerous programs on if we would want...that is if anyone would watch the poor quality. We are even using a "hidden" subchannel at some locations to get a signal from one place to another. We have it set for a low bit rate to not compromise the HD program. Consumer receivers can't pick it up....bet no one knew that! As has been discussed, additional programs won't go away, but we're doing everything we can to preserve HD bandwidth.
See you at the garage!!

One more question Jim..Sorry.

If the HD feed gets fed via fiber, would it be at full bandwidth, or is it throttled like
it would be OTA.

Basically I'm asking if KDNL broadcast 30-1 and 30-2, and they share bandwidth for
both of those channels via OTA, would a fiber link get full bandwidth or would it
be a shared number also?

Fiber get the same feed as the OTA signal.
Jim

JimGlobe, Can we just call a truce? Seriously. Not everyone agrees with everyone, but we all are relatively easy to get along with. Can we all just put everything behind us and let it go? People here have met at others house and have a "working" relationship. Don't make this a you against them or them against you. The negativity tends to result in non-listening and I think you might have some good observations as do others but the non-working relationship here is making it hard to focus on the real discussions.I believe the latest problems were a result of DroptheRemote making a personal attack on me, which the moderator had to remove. Perhaps you should ask him to DroptheNegative Attitude.
Admirable of you Schultzie...anyone who couldn't see and accept your suggestion is just way to smart for lil ole me to be hanging around with. :(
Back on Ignore!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8850810#post8850810
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8849919#post8849919
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8737910#post8737910
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8717141#post8717141
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8670753#post8670753
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8572683#post8572683
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8487402#post8487402

WRacer.

Just wanted to say that I appreciate the information you've shared here the past couple of days on subchannels and how your signal is relayed to cable/sat. But even more, I want to commend you for your efforts to preserve HD quality at KDNL.

I know that you know that many of us here really, really appreciate it, but is there anything we can do that will help get that message across to your management?

Thanks again, Jim.

...Back on Ignore!...How sad...ditto. :rolleyes:

I can pretty much confirm that the blinding white flashes I'm getting in Firefox are caused by the Pinnacle software fouling up my display somehow. I just installed Firefox on two other systems and no flashing. I also just discovered another add-on that really rocks. It allows you to synchronize bookmarks between computers (called Foxmarks). Essentially you just create an account and it allows you to synchronize your bookmarks among any and all systems you want to. Very cool.

Glad to hear that someone is having success with the Pinnacle HDTV USB device. It looked to be a very cost effective way of getting into HD recording without having to crack open the computer case. I'd like to know if it continues to perform well. On the plus side, Best Buy took the package back no questions asked when I told them I had problems with it. That price is good through Saturday.

CompUSA has what looks like an almost identical device with the Hauppage name for the same price (no sale). I don't like CompUSA's return policy, though. And I don't like what they do with returned items. I found a broken DVD holder that I had returned as defective to them in a "Warehouse Clearance" sale they were having.

WRacer.

Just wanted to say that I appreciate the information you've shared here the past couple of days on subchannels and how your signal is relayed to cable/sat. But even more, I want to commend you for your efforts to preserve HD quality at KDNL.

I know that you know that many of us here really, really appreciate it, but is there anything we can do that will help get that message across to your management?

Thanks again, Jim.

If you haven't seen it, Jim, Doug's survey really does have lots of great information that providers could use to gauge what viewers want from their HD providers. I gave KDNL very high marks for image quality and marked down the stations who are multicasting, because of the obvious image compromises multicasting and low bitrate have created.

To address Doug's question about getting the message across about our concerns with image quality, I can do screen captures of artifacts created by low bitrate HD broadcasts - everything from a dissolve to an unrecognizalbe Vanna White on HD Wheel to a block party as Clark Kent speeds by on Smallville. As HDTV's get better, more and more people are going to be seeing these image atrocities.

I'd be happy to put together some printouts of what happens when you bit-starve HD, if that would help make it clear to management that viewers hate this trend. With 1080p TV's steamrolling their way across the HD landscape, every image is going to get a lot more scrutiny, even 720p ones.

Discovery HD Presents HDTV in Space

The following story excerpt is from today's TV Predictions newsletter:
____________________________________________________________ ____

NASA next week will go where no camera has gone before. No live High-Definition TV camera, that is.

The space agency will make history on November 15 with the first live HDTV broadcast from space. Discovery HD Theater and the Japanese network NHK will air the event live at 11:30 a.m. ET.

The broadcast will feature Expedition 14 Commander Michael Lopez-Alegria on the International Space Station, with Flight Engineer Thomas Reiter serving as camera operator aboard the 220-mile-high laboratory.

Discovery HD Theater, which is available on cable and satellite, will also show the broadcast at Discovery Channel stores.
____________________________________________________________ ____

To read the full story, click here. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/hdspace111006.htm)

Wal-Mart Reported to Cut 42-inch Plasma to $998

The following story is from today's TV Predictions newsletter:
______________________________________________________

Have you been waiting for that stylish Plasma HDTV to drop under the magic $1,000 mark?

Well, you only have 16 more days to wait.

Wal-Mart is planning to offer a 42-inch Plasma HDTV (with a HD tuner inside) for just $998 on the day after Thanksgiving, according to various news reports. Known as Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving is regarded as the unofficial start of the holiday shopping season.

According to Wal-Mart's Black Friday ad, a copy of which was obtained by CNN/Money and other publications, the retailer will sell that flat-screen Plasma TV for $998 from 5 a.m. to 11 a.m. on November 24. Only one per customer will be permitted.

The brand of the Plasma set was not disclosed, but Wal-Mart recently made headlines when it dropped the price of a 42-inch Panasonic Plasma HDTV to $1294, roughly $400 less than Best Buy and Circuit City.

The discount retailer is trying to penetrate the lucrative CE market by offering sharp discounts on gadgets from TVs to DVD recorders to video game consoles.

According to the ad, Wal-Mart will also offer a special one-day $598 price for a 32-inch LCD HDTV, also with a tuner inside.
______________________________________________________

DirecTV Looks to "Buy" DISH Subscribers Losing Distant Nets

The following story excerpt is from today's SkyREPORT newsletter:
____________________________________________________________

With EchoStar's slimming chances of getting congressional assistance for its Dec. 1 distant network shutdown, rival DIRECTV is trying to make the company's misfortune into a subscriber-poaching opportunity. In what some are calling a pre-emptive strike, DIRECTV is reaching out to DISH Network subs that will be affected by the blackout by offering an alternative for satellite TV, a free upgrade package and even cold hard cash.

Earlier this week, DIRECTV issued a statement reminding customers and the press that DISH had been found guilty of violating federal law and was ordered to cease broadcasting its distant nets. The solution, DIRECTV said, is to switch satellite providers and receive a free DVR upgrade, no start-up costs, next-day installation and $150.
____________________________________________________________

For the complete story, go to www.skyreport.com.

Did the Planner load for you?
I got an error with IE7 and Firefox.
Wondering if it's our firewall . ..


Thanks,
Token

No, same thing you had.

Fiber get the same feed as the OTA signal.
Jim

Thanks JIM! I appreciate the knowledge.

The brand of the Plasma set was not disclosed, but Wal-Mart recently made headlines when it dropped the price of a 42-inch Panasonic Plasma HDTV to $1294, roughly $400 less than Best Buy and Circuit City.

If you are in the market for a 42" (TH -42PX60U), I was able to get Best Buy to price match the Walmart web price (although now it's showing $1,448 (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4875625&sourceid=00143517361966057837) and OOS). I have a PDF of the Walmart price when it was in stock and $1,348 if anyone want to give it a try.


Good luck,
Token

Hmmm...this forum has a nasty flavor now...

Has any Charter HD (non Moxi) users noticed their STB rebooting while moving around in the new menu? Mine has been.

so you finally got me to post :)

i've lurked here forever,
between deciding which tv to buy, which antenna to buy, how to aim said antenna, how to forget about said antenna because of multipath / dropout issues of living inbetween the towers and a landing path for the planes at lambert (nice drops every two minutes or so during a busy day at the airport) and choosing a satellite service that offers local hds that don't drop out because of airplanes

i've been reading for a while, anyway

i was taking doug's survey and had a few comments,

ESPN HD and EPSN 2 HD were grouped together. my ratings for these two channels vary greatly, but i was unable to vote down ESPN 2 for a lack of HD content

Guy TV HD - to the best of my knowledge has been renamed Kung FU HD and only plays that genre of movies, no westerns or sci fi (just may want to change the name for continuity)

Majestic HD - i believe is now Film Fest

Weatlh HD - i don't think exists in any form

overall an interesting survey, can't wait to see the results

zev,

Thanks for the feedback.

I thought about having ESPN and ESPN2 listed separately, but ultimately my bias for brevity won the day. I'm surprised that you see them being that different, but then that's the whole point of doing something like this -- to get a big picture of different viewpoints. I'll consider breaking these out separately if I do this again.

FWIW, I have an online template of the survey that I'm maintaining for future use and I'm making changes, corrections there as these are pointed out. I'll definitely incorporate into the template the items you've pointed out.

Nice to see you posting here. Thanks again.

Hmmm...this forum has a nasty flavor now...

Has any Charter HD (non Moxi) users noticed their STB rebooting while moving around in the new menu? Mine has been.


Although I personally have a Moxi I asked a buddy of mine with regular HD box and he sais he hasn't noticed any random rebooting with his box.

-Phatty

so you finally got me to post :)

i've lurked here forever,
between deciding which tv to buy, which antenna to buy, how to aim said antenna, how to forget about said antenna because of multipath / dropout issues of living inbetween the towers and a landing path for the planes at lambert (nice drops every two minutes or so during a busy day at the airport) and choosing a satellite service that offers local hds that don't drop out because of airplanes


I live right at Lambert too in a bit of a valley with two very large trees between the towers and me. Not the best combo. Multipath had been a persistent issue for me as well. I posted a couple of weeks ago about installing my replacement antenna and how a difference of just a few inches made. I was getting horrible multipath just a few inches from where I ended up mounting it. It can be time consuming and frustrating. Some antennas perform better with multipath than others.

I have read that rain fade can be more of an issue with HD locals spot beam. There are some folks here who have the HR20 and they are in a better position to comment on whether or not it's an issue. I don't know what E*'s version of the HR20 is.

Has any Charter HD (non Moxi) users noticed their STB rebooting while moving around in the new menu? Mine has been.

I have not had this happen with my box.

I have not had this happen with my box.

Hmmm... I have three HD Motorola Charter boxes and only one of them, the main one naturally, will reboot whenever I am moving around in the new menus. I guess I have one bad box, probably bad memory. This sucks because it means I have to call Charter support...which is outsourced!!! and not very efficient. :mad:

Hmmm...this forum has a nasty flavor now...

Has any Charter HD (non Moxi) users noticed their STB rebooting while moving around in the new menu? Mine has been.

No rebooting, but I've had problems getting it to change stations. Sometimes, either directly by remote or via an IR blaster from my DVD recorder, it just won't change. I've missed a few programs because of it...

We have 19mb to play with
Now I'm confused again. I thought the HDTV bitstream was being sent over an unused UHF channel - 6 MHz?

Perhaps 19 Mbps can be transmitted with 6 MHz BW, using quadrature modulation schemes; but then why does it appear when additional channels are sent that the main channel appears to be degraded? Is there a place I can go to read more about this?

Thanks!

I have read that rain fade can be more of an issue with HD locals spot beam. There are some folks here who have the HR20 and they are in a better position to comment on whether or not it's an issue. I don't know what E*'s version of the HR20 is.

E*'s version is the ViP622. I've been on of the lucky few that since the launch in Feb, I've had no hdmi issues, no overheating, all my timers seem to work. *knocks on wood*

I tried from December 2005 until last month with the antenna. Different heights, different angles, all pretty much oriented the same direction (thanks handy dandy old boy scout compass). Day 1, it was amazing, crystal clear, I was surprised at how easy it was to pull in a great picture and sound from an antenna. A couple weeks later, the flight paths changed and the drop outs began. I moved the antenna into the attic since I don't like the cold or climbing around on my roof more than neccessary and began antenna hokey pokey.

When the ViP622 came out, I ceremoniously dumped charter switched to dish and haven't looked back. The 118.7 dish locals 1000+ installs looked like they were becoming more routine, so with Lost, Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewifes and whatever else the wife watches coming back I decided to let E* provide the locals.

I've only had those for a month or two, but so far haven't experienced any rain fade. As big as that dish is, I'd guess it'd take a huge storm to knock it out of commision. The antenna is still hooked up for emergency issues though, i'm just done trying to find the magic spot to avoid the airplanes.

Now I'm confused again. I thought the HDTV bitstream was being sent over an unused UHF channel - 6 MHz?

Perhaps 19 Mbps can be transmitted with 6 MHz BW, using quadrature modulation schemes; but then why does it appear when additional channels are sent that the main channel appears to be degraded? Is there a place I can go to read more about this?QAM is generally a cable television modulation scheme. OTA digital broadcasting uses a different modulation protocol called 8VSB.

Here's a link to Wikipedia that probably isn't the best information but should be a reasonable introduction and you can do some additional searches from there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8VSB

Edit: My bad -- I should have tried to address your other points...juggling too many things just at the moment.

Not sure what you mean when you talk about an unused UHF channel. Maybe you can clarify what you're referring to.

Also, maybe you're unaware but the HD channel and the subchannels all share the same bandwidth. If you're starting with 19 Mbps and decide to add a subchannel and throttle that at 2 Mbps, then you only have 17 Mbps to transmit your HD channel. In many instances you can get by with that, but when there's major changes in the content of a video field or frame, or where there's significant motion, that 17 Mbps may not be enough to deliver a high-quality image.

There's an additional factor that 720p stations tend to get more efficient use from 19 Mbps because progressive video compresses much more efficiently than interlaced video transmitted by 1080i stations.

No doubt there are many other factors that determine the impact of subchannels on HD image quality, but ultimately the biggest factor is simple addition (more subchannels) and subtraction (mean less quality).

Now I'm confused again. I thought the HDTV bitstream was being sent over an unused UHF channel - 6 MHz?

Perhaps 19 Mbps can be transmitted with 6 MHz BW, using quadrature modulation schemes; but then why does it appear when additional channels are sent that the main channel appears to be degraded? Is there a place I can go to read more about this?

Thanks!

The RF bandwidth is 6MHZ, but the data rate is 19MB. Come down here and i'll show you! I'll take a short manual over to the shop.
Jim

Greetings All,
Obviously someone finally contacted KDNL-TV and
informed them that there DTV was messed up. I
was wondering how long it would take for this to
happen. It took, one month. I have previously
contacted them, but I don't watch KDNL enough,
and I lost interest in letting them know.

I have 2 HDTVs & 1 DIRECTV hr10-250.
And both HDTVs were showing KDNL-DT incorrectly.
My CRT-HDTV was showing KDNL-DT as 31.1, and
blanking out the channel completely so it CANNOT
viewed. My LCD-HDTV was showing KDNL-DT as
31.3, but was NOT blanking out the channel.
While my HR10-250 was not having any problem
with the KDNL-DT flaw. Apparantly the HR10-250
ignores changes to the channel & sub-channel
scheme on the data stream.

I figured someone out there would let KDNL know
about it. But I am rather shocked it took a month
for this to happen.

This means: either most people with HDTVs who
watch KDNL-DT regularly watch it using an
HR10-250 or some other Satellite receiver with an
ATSC tuner

or it could mean that most do NOT watch KDNL-DT
using the built-in ATSC of their HDTV tuner.

or it could mean that KDNL-TV's ratings are very LOW.
And KDNL does not attract any significant viewership
among HDTV owners.

I am very shocked it took one month for the problem
to get fixed.

Guy TV HD - to the best of my knowledge has been renamed Kung FU HD and only plays that genre of movies, no westerns or sci fi (just may want to change the name for continuity)
Majestic HD - i believe is now Film Fest
Weatlh HD - i don't think exists in any form
overall an interesting survey, can't wait to see the results
Hi Zev...nice to see you've joined in...welcome :)

I noticed these on Doug's survey as well, but neglected to inform him. I usually provide Doug with the latest DISH channel line-ups, as he's not a DISH sub. I missed letting him know of the changes :o

FTR, indeed Majestic had a name change, and is now Film Fest:
FILMF Channel 9480 (MPEG2)

Kung Fu is an original VOOM.
KNGFU Channel 9479 (MPEG2)

Both Guy TV and Wealth were original VOOM's, but have since been dropped by VOOM and DISH.

The DISH current HD channel count is:
VOOM - 15
Animation; Equator; Family Room; Film Fest; Gallery; Kung Fu; Game Play; HD News; Rush; Rave; Monsters; Treasure; Ultra; World Cinema; World Sport.
DISH HD - 12
TNT; Discovery; HD Net; HD Movies; ESPN; ESPN2; NFL; Universal; National Geographic; Home & Garden; Food; NBA;
Premium Movie - 3
Showtime; HBO; Starz
PPV - 2
HD Event; HD PPV;
HD Locals - 4
ABC; CBS; NBC; FOX

Here's a link to Wikipedia that probably isn't the best information but should be a reasonable introduction and you can do some additional searches from there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8VSBThanks!

Not sure what you mean when you talk about an unused UHF channel. Maybe you can clarify what you're referring to.It was my understanding that the SD programming was being broadcast in analog on the "named" channel (2, 4, 5, etc) while the HD was broadcast from otherwise-unassigned UHF channels (43, 56, 35, etc).

Also, maybe you're unaware but the HD channel and the subchannels all share the same bandwidth. If you're starting with 19 Mbps and decide to add a subchannel and throttle that at 2 Mbps, then you only have 17 Mbps to transmit your HD channel.Yes, that was also my understanding, which is why I asked the original question about whether any stations might license additional UHF channels so they would not need to degrade the -1 channel when broadcasting -2, -3 and so on.

Thanks for your reply. I'm still hoping someone devises a channel assignment plan that allows the stations to generate the revenue they need from extra streams, without degrading the main stream.

The RF bandwidth is 6MHZ, but the data rate is 19MB. Come down here and i'll show you! I'll take a short manual over to the shop.
Jim
Sure, that part I understand. Amazing, for example, how we can get 53 kbps data through a 3 kHz phone line.

The limit of 19 Mbps still implies that if any of that bandwidth is borrowed for a secondary video stream, the main stream must suffer. If, for example, KETC is sending 9-1, 9-2, 9-3 and 9-4; the 9-1 image cannot be as good as it would be if it had the whole 19 Mbps to itself.

Has anyone in St. Louis been told by Charter there is a one HD box per house hold limit? I find this hard to believe. The customer service has gone down hill very fast also. They aren't based in town anymore.

Any info or tips on how to get a second HD box would be appreciated.

Has anyone in St. Louis been told by Charter there is a one HD box per house hold limit? I find this hard to believe. The customer service has gone down hill very fast also. They aren't based in town anymore.

Any info or tips on how to get a second HD box would be appreciated.


Talk to retentioin, tell them the competition will give you as many as you want, and if you don't get another you are leaving.

I thought I'd provide a link for the multiple layer technology that could have a dramatic impact on the next generation DVD battle.

NME's Multi-layer Technology (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9596_22-6119788.html)

There are a couple of really interesting things about this. First, Warner (the owner of Warner Brothers) has applied for a patent that would allow for a single disc that could contain DVD, HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of the same movie. The patent process uses NME technology to achieve that. Even more interesting is that NME technology could be used with regular red laser production lines, saving dramatically on costs, and have ample capacity for HD movies, all without using blue lasers at all.

The implications for computer data storage (50-100GB or more) are just as interesting.

I thought I'd provide a link for the multiple layer technology that could have a dramatic impact on the next generation DVD battle.

NME's Multi-layer Technology (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9596_22-6119788.html)

There are a couple of really interesting things about this. First, Warner (the owner of Warner Brothers) has applied for a patent that would allow for a single disc that could contain DVD, HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of the same movie. The patent process uses NME technology to achieve that. Even more interesting is that NME technology could be used with regular red laser production lines, saving dramatically on costs, and have ample capacity for HD movies, all without using blue lasers at all.

The implications for computer data storage (50-100GB or more) are just as interesting.
If I'm understanding this correctly (keywords), the best case scenario for us as consumers, would mean the studios agreeing to have their chosen format put on a NME disc....yes??
If we owned a NME player, we would put in whatever movie, in whatever format, the NME player would recognize it, and play it...yes, again??

Would their be any "love-lost" between a native Blu-ray disc played on a Sony, or a HD DVD disc played on a Toshiba, and the same played through the NME technology?

I thought I'd provide a link for the multiple layer technology that could have a dramatic impact on the next generation DVD battle.

NME's Multi-layer Technology (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9596_22-6119788.html)

There are a couple of really interesting things about this. First, Warner (the owner of Warner Brothers) has applied for a patent that would allow for a single disc that could contain DVD, HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of the same movie. The patent process uses NME technology to achieve that. Even more interesting is that NME technology could be used with regular red laser production lines, saving dramatically on costs, and have ample capacity for HD movies, all without using blue lasers at all.

The implications for computer data storage (50-100GB or more) are just as interesting.

But my question is how much room will they need to put DVD, HD-DVD and bluray versions with lossless audio and HD extras on a single disk. Assuming 4.7GB/layer, it seems like they would need upwards of 20 layers for all that data. Doesn't really seem like it solves anything to me. Just confuses the issue that much more.

I've been debating getting a HD-A1 (I have archived .ts files I'd like to be able to play without my MCE setup). I think my Yamaha RX-v2400 will accept 5.1 analog, but it won't process the signal. This makes me think I should step up to a new HDMI AVR, but I want to wait til HD Audio is processed at the AVR.

decisions, decisions...


Dave

I am so pleased with my year old living room projection LCD HDTV that I want to replace my first generation projection HDTV in my rec room with something newer. The price difference between buying locally from a retailer and on-line are simply too big to ignore, so I'm considering going that route. Of course, there is the worry of dealing with an online dealer vs a local retailer, so my question, anyone have experience with the purchase of an HDTV online? If so, are you glad you went that route are sorry you did? Any particular online dealer you recommend?

I am so pleased with my year old living room projection LCD HDTV that I want to replace my first generation projection HDTV in my rec room with something newer. The price difference between buying locally from a retailer and on-line are simply too big to ignore, so I'm considering going that route. Of course, there is the worry of dealing with an online dealer vs a local retailer, so my question, anyone have experience with the purchase of an HDTV online? If so, are you glad you went that route are sorry you did? Any particular online dealer you recommend?

A good place to start would be the sponsors at the top of this page. I would make darn sure you got the correct type, size etc. because once it arrives it's yours to keep like it or not. Also, if it arrives dead, or breaks soon after arriving, it will need to go to the shop for repair. Buying from a local vender negates all that. I would give the local vendors a shot at coming close or matching the online price first. Good luck.

Scott

I am so pleased with my year old living room projection LCD HDTV that I want to replace my first generation projection HDTV in my rec room with something newer. The price difference between buying locally from a retailer and on-line are simply too big to ignore, so I'm considering going that route. Of course, there is the worry of dealing with an online dealer vs a local retailer, so my question, anyone have experience with the purchase of an HDTV online? If so, are you glad you went that route are sorry you did? Any particular online dealer you recommend?

Regardless of where you get it, it's getting colder and it needs to sit unboxed in your room until it reaches near room temperature before turning it on to avoid problems with moisture and temp. differences. It's almost like laptops left overnight in the trunk of a car in winter and not being allowed to warm before firing up.

FWIW, I bought mine locally and a new replacement set was delivered DOA. They brought my old set (which did work) back in and I waited another 2 days to get a different one delivered. So it all depends. But buying locally was worth not saving a few dollars in my situation.

Edit: There is a group buying thread here at AVS. That may hold some good info on how many sets arrived in good working order and how many were DOA. Also, read any other site specific feedback threads especially on how exchanges worked out like Amazon for example.

I am so pleased with my year old living room projection LCD HDTV that I want to replace my first generation projection HDTV in my rec room with something newer. The price difference between buying locally from a retailer and on-line are simply too big to ignore, so I'm considering going that route. Of course, there is the worry of dealing with an online dealer vs a local retailer, so my question, anyone have experience with the purchase of an HDTV online? If so, are you glad you went that route are sorry you did? Any particular online dealer you recommend?
My personal opinion...I would never consider purchasing a display online. This, coming from someone who orders and buys virtually everything online. We live in the middle-of-nowhere, hardly a day goes by that something isn't delivered here.
We've become very good at researching and purchasing online. We know the ins-and-outs of the industry, and where to draw the line.

Yes, in a perfect transaction, you save a grip buying your display online. But, as Scott said, once you get it, the balls in your court. If for any reason you need to enter into and exchange, a cumbersome nightmare awaits.

Many online sellers/brokers know a certain percentage of consumers, even though not fully satisfied with their purchase, will just take their lumps, rather than deal with the exchange process. This is why some of them will sub other/older models, or sub grey-market units. They are banking on the facts, that once it finally arrives, you unpack it, set it up, connect and begin watching it....if it turns out the unit is not exactly what you maybe expected, you are not going to go through all the time, effort, and expense of returning it, while you sit and wait another several weeks with a hole in your entertainment room.

It it arrives DOA, you're even more screwed. The first words out of the reps mouth when you call it is will be, "we check every unit before it leaves our warehouse, and it was working when it left here...does the packaging show any signs of damage during shipping?"

If you purchase your display at a local place like UE, for example, you have the name and phone number of someone you can talk to EVERY time you call. Your salesperson knows you and knows what you purchased. If an exchange is needed, all you need to do is be home.

Once you do your research, and decide which unit you're going to purchase, print-out the online prices and take them to a local dealer. They'll come close enough to make it well worth your while to stay local.

I'm not one, but there are local sales people on this board who will be willing to discuss further with you in PM's.

bad idea
my .02.

If I'm understanding this correctly (keywords), the best case scenario for us as consumers, would mean the studios agreeing to have their chosen format put on a NME disc....yes??
If we owned a NME player, we would put in whatever movie, in whatever format, the NME player would recognize it, and play it...yes, again??

Would their be any "love-lost" between a native Blu-ray disc played on a Sony, or a HD DVD disc played on a Toshiba, and the same played through the NME technology?

I'm just starting to read about this new technology, too, so I'm not really clear on this, but I think you're right. As I understand it, NME technology, combined with blue lasers, would allow a movie studio to put DVD, HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of its movie on one side of one disc, and you would be able to play it in any player. Or you could take any existing movie (DVD, HD DVD or Blu-ray) and play it on an NME player.

That's a solution, but a very wasteful one in terms of space and complexity. The NME technology, had it come along first, would have allowed us to continue to use the cheap and mature red laser technology to create a player that would play CD's, DVD's and high definition DVD's. All this without a big reinvestment in production technology. The stars did not align for the roll out of next gen DVD.

Long and short of it - it's a mess. Nobody knows what's going to happen, and it's still smart to wait it out. (Everyone here should know by now that I'm not so bright. I'm the idiot who jumped in with his clothes on. I'm still having a good time, though, even if people are looking at me funny.)

My personal opinion...I would never consider purchasing a display online. This, coming from someone who orders and buys virtually everything online. We live in the middle-of-nowhere, hardly a day goes by that something isn't delivered here.
We've become very good at researching and purchasing online. We know the ins-and-outs of the industry, and where to draw the line.

Yes, in a perfect transaction, you save a grip buying your display online. But, as Scott said, once you get it, the balls in your court. If for any reason you need to enter into and exchange, a cumbersome nightmare awaits.

Many online sellers/brokers know a certain percentage of consumers, even though not fully satisfied with their purchase, will just take their lumps, rather than deal with the exchange process. This is why some of them will sub other/older models, or sub grey-market units. They are banking on the facts, that once it finally arrives, you unpack it, set it up, connect and begin watching it....if it turns out the unit is not exactly what you maybe expected, you are not going to go through all the time, effort, and expense of returning it, while you sit and wait another several weeks with a hole in your entertainment room.

It it arrives DOA, you're even more screwed. The first words out of the reps mouth when you call it is will be, "we check every unit before it leaves our warehouse, and it was working when it left here...does the packaging show any signs of damage during shipping?"

If you purchase your display at a local place like UE, for example, you have the name and phone number of someone you can talk to EVERY time you call. Your salesperson knows you and knows what you purchased. If an exchange is needed, all you need to do is be home.

Once you do your research, and decide which unit you're going to purchase, print-out the online prices and take them to a local dealer. They'll come close enough to make it well worth your while to stay local.

I'm not one, but there are local sales people on this board who will be willing to discuss further with you in PM's.

bad idea
my .02.

I agree with most of what you said, but I ended up buying my Toshiba 42HP95 Plasma online from Costco. No one else that carried this model could come close to the price, and with the return policy I felt comfortable enough with the online puchase. If not for that, I've bought locally.

I agree with most of what you said, but I ended up buying my Toshiba 42HP95 Plasma online from Costco. No one else that carried this model could come close to the price, and with the return policy I felt comfortable enough with the online puchase. If not for that, I've bought locally.

The beauty of Costco is that it is both local and online. Buy online and take it back to the store if you have a problem. And they have a wonderful return policy, although I almost never use it.

The stars did not align for the roll out of next gen DVD.

Or...but did they, and the profit-mongering gods of the industry forecast it best to opt the path of greater resistance :confused:

We'll never know all the secrets Rumsfeld left with, now will we?
Not being political, just using a timely example.

Finally got my antenna installed in the attic but I'm getting wavy lines during motion/fast motion on screen for all the channels. Well I maybe a bit hasty but so far it is happening during football and nascar so I'm assuming it will during regular scheduled shows as well. I didn't notice it on PBS but the bacteria special wasn't moving very quickly :)

The picture color, sound, etc... is perfect but I get wavy lines when players move around and it is mostly during close up motion or fast paced motion that crosses the screen.

My question is could this be the fact I have a pre-amp on a 50ft cable run and it is providing too much juice, the fact i have a DB-8 antenna and that is too much reception for a 30mile distance ( live in Saint Peters), or maybe other? Any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

Thanks!

It was my understanding that the SD programming was being broadcast in analog on the "named" channel (2, 4, 5, etc) while the HD was broadcast from otherwise-unassigned UHF channels (43, 56, 35, etc).

Yes, that was also my understanding, which is why I asked the original question about whether any stations might license additional UHF channels so they would not need to degrade the -1 channel when broadcasting -2, -3 and so on.

Thanks for your reply. I'm still hoping someone devises a channel assignment plan that allows the stations to generate the revenue they need from extra streams, without degrading the main stream.

Dan:

I'm right there with you.

I've always thought that OTA utopia in the STL DMA would be somehow there would be ONE huge tower at or near the highest point in the region (that would eliminate trying to pull from different compass directions, I'm pretty certain that there are some DMA's that do do this) with all the local UHF transmitters on it fed via fiber from the local stations.


Take Dan's point a step further with one of the UHF channels being nothing other than the all the shared subchannels of all the stations in the DMA. The stations would "lease?" and establish subchannels on this co-op frequency . Just make sure that all the subchannels could be remapped to the appropriate channel for branding reasons.

I'm sure there are technical hurdles not to mention FCC regs and inertia/resistance from the local stations that would get in the way.

But it would be a win for all of us the consumers.

A guy can dream can't he...


As an aside, IMHO the SEC game of the week on ch4 WAS some of the best HD going --- not just of HD sports but HD anything on OTA. Throw in the fact that it was SEC football and it was something that I looked forward to every Sat.

Now it's just a shell of itself.... :mad:

I'm sure that CSI Miami fans are just as displeased.

Oh and while I'm at it....

I'll pass on a story from an instance this past spring/summer storm season when an incoming storm woke me up around 2 something in the morning. You, know one of those should we go to the basement or not kind of storms. I go out to the TV and turn on the relatiely new (at that time) Weather Plus(-) thinking OK if there's ever a time to watch it, now would be it. Not ONCE in the 15-20 minutes I had it on was there anything even related to the local weather situation - I think it was clear and mild in Toledo if I remember right however there's impending doom going on outside!!! I mean absolutely what good is a 24/7 weather channel if it's no good whatsoever in a storm situation!?!?!?!?

Yes I had other outlets (internet, radio) that I used to determine a course of action for myself and wife but geeze how in the world can you sell USELESS CRAP to your sponsors knowing full well it destroys your primary product!!!! (I'm not that nieve to think they really care, if selling poo makes money, people will sell it).

Has anyone in St. Louis been told by Charter there is a one HD box per house hold limit? I find this hard to believe. The customer service has gone down hill very fast also. They aren't based in town anymore.

Any info or tips on how to get a second HD box would be appreciated.

I have three HD STBs and two were installed just a few months ago. There was a shortage reported earlier this year (Jan-May) ....maybe it is back.

There could be a new demand due to all the HD sets being sold or Charter could just be mis-managing again and did not buy enough STBs.

Also I ordered the new STBs right before the customer service was outsourced... :(

I am so pleased with my year old living room projection LCD HDTV that I want to replace my first generation projection HDTV in my rec room with something newer. The price difference between buying locally from a retailer and on-line are simply too big to ignore, so I'm considering going that route. Of course, there is the worry of dealing with an online dealer vs a local retailer, so my question, anyone have experience with the purchase of an HDTV online? If so, are you glad you went that route are sorry you did? Any particular online dealer you recommend?

I bought two LCD sets last Christmas online. Both arrived without incident and worked just fine. Both also required a signature at the door. They will not just set them on the porch.

Also, beware of hefty delivery fees which could jack up the price beyond what you would pay at a store.

Hmmm... I have three HD Motorola Charter boxes and only one of them, the main one naturally, will reboot whenever I am moving around in the new menus. I guess I have one bad box, probably bad memory. This sucks because it means I have to call Charter support...which is outsourced!!! and not very efficient. :mad:

I purchased my wife an HD tv for the bedroom. I went down to the local Charter shop and was given a Moto DCT6200 to install. I bet you could take that box back and they will issue one to you.

Walt

Has anyone in St. Louis been told by Charter there is a one HD box per house hold limit? I find this hard to believe. The customer service has gone down hill very fast also. They aren't based in town anymore.

Any info or tips on how to get a second HD box would be appreciated.

If you get a second box please let me know. I can't seem to get a FIRST box and I have been trying since forever.

BTW...I know someone in Alton with 2 of them.

Walt

I purchased my wife an HD tv for the bedroom. I went down to the local Charter shop and was given a Moto DCT6200 to install. I bet you could take that box back and they will issue one to you.

Walt

Charter forced me to pay for a service call to install the Moto boxes. I could not pick them up. Maybe it is different in ILL.

For those here who have both the DISH HD Locals via SAT (118.7°), and OTA Locals, IB the consonance has always been since their launch, they are a bit "softer" than the OTA locals. The OTA locals are a bit "crisper" and better PQ of the two.

Well, recently, just in the past few days, it seems DISH may have done something making (in my eye) their SAT HD Locals "softer" than when they first launched. Again, to me, the OTA Locals are looking noticeably better.

Thoughts from others here who also have them both, please?

For those here who have both the DISH HD Locals via SAT (118.7°), and OTA Locals, IB the consonance has always been since their launch, they are a bit "softer" than the OTA locals. The OTA locals are a bit "crisper" and better PQ of the two.

Well, recently, just in the past few days, it seems DISH may have done something making (in my eye) their SAT HD Locals "softer" than when they first launched. Again, to me, the OTA Locals are looking noticeably better.

Thoughts from others here who also have them both, please?

I'll keep an eye out, Ken. I don't watch the sat locals very much, but I'll try to do some A/B's next week.

Does anyone who has D* and the new AT9 currently watch locals via the dish as opposed to OTA? If so, is the quality noticeably worse? The reason I ask is that the audio dropouts (still not fixed) and the lip-synching problems with some channels over the OTA (11-1 stands out in my mind, as well as SD programming on 2-1) are really starting to stick in my craw, so to speak. If the PQ of the locals over the dish are not too terribly bad (and with the additon of all these subchannels, the OTA advantage might not be so great), I'd just as soon not have to deal with OTA's less than ideal interface with the HR10-250. Advice?

On another note, any suggestions for an upconverting DVD player that has great audio too? Denon 3930, Marantz 9600, Rotel 1092, Arcam DV137 are ones that I'm considering...just curious if anyone has preferences or opinons. Thanks!

I'll keep an eye out, Ken. I don't watch the sat locals very much, but I'll try to do some A/B's next week.
Thanks Joe...I think you have a 622, ya?
If you use PiP and Swap (with nothing recording), you can pause both tuners, and toggle between screen-shots instantly. KIM, the SAT is about 1-2 seconds behind the OTA, so start with the OTA tuner (SAT in PiP), pick out a good head shot, pause it, swap tuners, and when the same shot comes up, pause it also. Then just toggle between, they'll stay paused.
I'm sure you know how to do this, but if we're going to compare, I thought I'd tell you the way I do it.

As it's a long holiday weekend and a football Sunday to boot, I thought it might be a good time to post a reminder note here about the "2006 HDTV Programming Survey" that I developed.

The survey can be found at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=770152748968

Since the survey opened on Wednesday evening, the participation level has been very good -- when you put something like this together, it's hard to know what the reaction will be, but so far I'm feeling pretty positive about the initial followthrough and feedback.

But I'm also interested in doing what I can to maximize the number of survey participants and also to broaden the pool of respondents (so that it doesn't turn out to be just a polling of AVS contributors and lurkers here).

To help get the word out, I've posted a note about the survey at the TV discussion area at STLtoday.com, and I've also dropped a note to one of the editors over at the Riverfront Times (the RFT has no online forums). If anyone has any other ideas about local sites or other avenues where it would be helpful to let people know about the HDTV survey, I'm interested in hearing suggestions.

I've also prepared a general eMail message that can be copied and sent to any friends, family or colleagues you know who might be interested in participating.

Feel free to modity this sample note in any way you want.
____________________________________________________________ __

One of the locally based guys who participates at an online HDTV and Home Theater discussion I read has created an online survey about HDTV Viewer Experiences in St. Louis. I know you're also interested in HDTV and some of the topics and issues the survey covers, so I thought I would send you a link to the survey in case you'd like to participate.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=770152748968

The first page of the survey explains more about the goals of the survey, as well as where and when the results will be made available to the public. The survey will require around 20 minutes of your time and is available at the link above until December 1.

If you have time to check it out and think it's interesting, go ahead and forward this eMail to any friends, colleagues or family members you think might be interested.
____________________________________________________________ __

Doug...

Check out this link: http://blahblahblah.info/2006/11/12/2006-st-louis-hdtv-programming-survey/

Doug...

Check out this link: http://blahblahblah.info/2006/11/12/2006-st-louis-hdtv-programming-survey/Dean,

Excellent -- and amazingly quick. Many thanks -- I really appreciate it.

Does anyone who has D* and the new AT9 currently watch locals via the dish as opposed to OTA? If so, is the quality noticeably worse? The reason I ask is that the audio dropouts (still not fixed) and the lip-synching problems with some channels over the OTA (11-1 stands out in my mind, as well as SD programming on 2-1) are really starting to stick in my craw, so to speak. If the PQ of the locals over the dish are not too terribly bad (and with the additon of all these subchannels, the OTA advantage might not be so great), I'd just as soon not have to deal with OTA's less than ideal interface with the HR10-250. Advice?


The picture quality and audio seems fine for me, but I am only using the HR20 on
a 23 inch HD LCD as I still don't trust it as a main DVR.

You only get 2, 4, 5, and 30 in HD though, so you lose channel 11 and 9 because
the OTA isn't enabled yet.

As far as the sub channels affecting picture quality. WRACER said that the HD
feed is picked up via OTA by the different providers so what ever subchannel affect
you are noticing via OTA, will be noticed via DirecTV.

If you can hold off for a few more weeks, I would suggest keeping that HR10-250.

Finally got my antenna installed in the attic but I'm getting wavy lines during motion/fast motion on screen for all the channels. Well I maybe a bit hasty but so far it is happening during football and nascar so I'm assuming it will during regular scheduled shows as well. I didn't notice it on PBS but the bacteria special wasn't moving very quickly :)

The picture color, sound, etc... is perfect but I get wavy lines when players move around and it is mostly during close up motion or fast paced motion that crosses the screen.

My question is could this be the fact I have a pre-amp on a 50ft cable run and it is providing too much juice, the fact i have a DB-8 antenna and that is too much reception for a 30mile distance ( live in Saint Peters), or maybe other? Any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

At first glance it could be too much signal. In fact, you may even need an attentuator if that is the case. Have you tried it without the amp?

I sent you a PM. I did a Google search under TV wavy lines and HDTV wavy lines. Both searches yielded many results. I also sent you a link with examples of FM interference, ghosting, etc. I'll post it here to as it may come in handy for others. The picture showing wavy lines for FM interference would indicate geting an inline FM trap. Both the atennuator and FM trap you can get at Radio Shack and install inside. If you try the attenuator, get the one with a dial.

http://heh.pl/&36B

At first glance it could be too much signal. In fact, you may even need an attentuator if that is the case. Have you tried it without the amp?

I sent you a PM. I did a Google search under TV wavy lines and HDTV wavy lines. Both searches yielded many results. I also sent you a link with examples of FM interference, ghosting, etc. I'll post it here to as it may come in handy for others. The picture showing wavy lines for FM interference would indicate geting an inline FM trap. Both the atennuator and FM trap you can get at Radio Shack and install inside. If you try the attenuator, get the one with a dial.

http://heh.pl/&36B
"Our" resident OTA Expert :)

If you haven't started a new job Mo, you should consider starting a business. Circulate some marketing....I bet there's a high demand for someone who knows the stuff you know.
"OTA Consultant" .... $50./hr .... referrals from retailers, etc., I bet it's doable. If you asked Doug, he probably goes out on plenty of ISF's, and ends up coaching a proper OTA setup also.

MoInSTL thanks for the great info in the PM and all the help. I don't know what happened but as I replied in my PM all is well today... I have no idea what I cahnged b/c I didn't really do anything besides unplug and replug the pre amp??? So I don't know what the problem is. I'd imagine I'll always have a few problems b/c I'm using a File server to run and share out my HD to all my computers.

Either way though I'm watching football in beautiful HD on my Samsung DLP 50" screen :) If it happens again maybe I'll look a little more into it but somehow it fixed itself. I'm almost afraid to clean all the wiring up now. Using the DB-8 antenna seems like it was the sweet spot b/c all the channels listed for local come in great.

"Our" resident OTA Expert :)

If you haven't started a new job Mo, you should consider starting a business. Circulate some marketing....I bet there's a high demand for someone who knows the stuff you know.
"OTA Consultant" .... $50./hr .... referrals from retailers, etc., I bet it's doable. If you asked Doug, he probably goes out on plenty of ISF's, and ends up coaching a proper OTA setup also.

:o Thanks. Hmm, that may just work but I pretty much know how to phrase my searches on Google to yield the info I am looking for. If I get a job with Antennas Direct (I did apply) it may be a conflict of interest. But thanks again. I'll give it some more thought. I do offer PC repair, upgrades and a host of other services but it hasn't really gotten off the ground. I should update my site and add a OTA section. It's NoSPAMsuchageekNOSPAM.com

It hasn't really been mentioned, but 8VSB and Trellis modulation used for OTA allows for broadcasters to send > 6Mbits/seconds across a single channel. The raw data rate is actually substantially higher but error correction eats up a large fraction of the raw data rate, leaving ~19 Mbits/second for content.

This is a modestly technical treatise on the topic of 8VSB:
http://www.broadcast.net/~sbe1/8vsb/8vsb.htm

Also, cable utilizes QAM (Quadrature Amplitude Modulation) to get more than 6 Mbits/second out of a 6 MHz channel space.

CHeers,

The Chargers rocked it today. I can't say the same for the D* audio however. Throughout the game channel 722 HD kept flipping into pro logic and then back to 5.1.

Took the survey Doug. Thanks for putting that together. You are a very valuble asset to this forum.

Scott

November HT Meet in St. Louis
Hi Guys - Sorry it has taken me so long to get back into the forum. Anyway, I promised to host a St. Louis HT meet this fall, but the work schedule has been impossible lately, (too many trips to the east and west coasts). (BTW, I live in Manchester, MO, just west of I-270 on the western edge of Des Peres).

I think I'm about ready, but given John Kotches' awesome show in August, I was a little intimidated with my more modest rig. In the last couple days though, I talked to Denny Hickman over at The Sound Room in Creve Coeur, and I think we may have a real treat for you guys. He has the brand new Sharpvision XV-Z20000 1080p projector AND a prototype Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player to demonstrate. I saw this player on a big Pioneer Elite plasma set, and I've got to tell you - it was the best looking picture I've ever seen - at least with the Pioneer demo disk, (including John's Toshiba HD-DVD player - sorry John). This projector is a very nice piece also.

Anyway, Denny is willing to lug this stuff over to my home theater, if enough of you geeks out there are willing to come see it. I need to set a date when you guys are free, and coordinate with the Sound Room. Let me know on this forum or via PM if you are interested. (I'm thinking Sunday afternoon, Nov. 26th - this is the Sunday after Thanksgiving. Soda, beer and leftover turkey on me.) If this date is too tough for kitchen passes, etc., early December is good for me also - let me know what works best for you guys.

Thanks, Don Bingaman

BTW - the rest of the set-up: Vandersteen Signature 5.1 loudspeaker system, Hafler Transnova amplifiication, Sony TA-E9000ES / TA-P9000ES processor/preamp, Pioneer DV-38a DVD, Hughes/Tivo HD DirecTV satellite rcvr., Sony ES SACD player (awesome sound). Dedicated 16' x 22' room with 100" Stewart Filmscreen Firehawk and ceiling mounted Sharpvision XV-Z9000U projector.......

November HT Meet in St. Louis
Hi Guys - Sorry it has taken me so long to get back into the forum. Anyway, I promised to host a St. Louis HT meet this fall, but the work schedule has been impossible lately, (too many trips to the east and west coasts). (BTW, I live in Manchester, MO, just west of I-270 on the western edge of Des Peres).

I think I'm about ready, but given John Kotches' awesome show in August, I was a little intimidated with my more modest rig. In the last couple days though, I talked to Denny Hickman over at The Sound Room in Creve Coeur, and I think we may have a real treat for you guys. He has the brand new Sharpvision XV-Z20000 1080p projector AND a prototype Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player to demonstrate. I saw this player on a big Pioneer Elite plasma set, and I've got to tell you - it was the best looking picture I've ever seen - at least with the Pioneer demo disk, (including John's Toshiba HD-DVD player - sorry John). This projector is a very nice piece also.

Anyway, Denny is willing to lug this stuff over to my home theater, if enough of you geeks out there are willing to come see it. I need to set a date when you guys are free, and coordinate with the Sound Room. Let me know on this forum or via PM if you are interested. (I'm thinking Sunday afternoon, Nov. 26th - this is the Sunday after Thanksgiving. Soda, beer and leftover turkey on me.) If this date is too tough for kitchen passes, etc., early December is good for me also - let me know what works best for you guys.

Thanks, Don Bingaman

BTW - the rest of the set-up: Vandersteen Signature 5.1 loudspeaker system, Hafler Transnova amplifiication, Sony TA-E9000ES / TA-P9000ES processor/preamp, Pioneer DV-38a DVD, Hughes/Tivo HD DirecTV satellite rcvr., Sony ES SACD player (awesome sound). Dedicated 16' x 22' room with 100" Stewart Filmscreen Firehawk and ceiling mounted Sharpvision XV-Z9000U projector.......

I had the Sharp 9000 for about 3 years, now the Optoma H79. I've been reading about the Sharp 20000 and am quite anxious to see it. How's your HT room laid out? I'd love to make it if possible.

I apologize if this is the wrong forum...but I was looking for some help in the STL area.

Charter installed a Moxi BMC9012F2 hi-def DVR yesterday in my house. It replaced the other basic digital / hd box that was just installed 3 weeks ago.

When I hit the moxi button on the remote, the channel guide that appears displays "no data available" on EVERY channel. Also missing is the name of the channel itself. The channel number is displayed, but not what the name of the show is.

It also won't let me record anything, probably because the channel guide doesn't work (just a guess though). It does record the current channel for about 6 minutes or so, but I can't record anything other than what I'm currently watching. According to a MOXI faq I read it appears to be the temp memory.

I've made 6 calls to charter between last night and today. They keep saying they would send a signal to reset the box, but the box never flashed or reset itself (as the prior box did when I had to have Charter reset that one). I've also unplugged the device for a while to no avail. Now they say they will send a tech out in a week and half.

Can anyone offer any suggestions, other than throwing this thing out the door, especially after the last tech tried selling me additional crap while waiting for the box to reboot ???

I'd also be open for a local phone number to talk to charter...I keep getting connected to Charter in the Philippines.

November HT Meet in St. Louis
Hi Guys - Sorry it has taken me so long to get back into the forum. Anyway, I promised to host a St. Louis HT meet this fall, but the work schedule has been impossible lately, (too many trips to the east and west coasts). (BTW, I live in Manchester, MO, just west of I-270 on the western edge of Des Peres).

I think I'm about ready, but given John Kotches' awesome show in August, I was a little intimidated with my more modest rig. In the last couple days though, I talked to Denny Hickman over at The Sound Room in Creve Coeur, and I think we may have a real treat for you guys. He has the brand new Sharpvision XV-Z20000 1080p projector AND a prototype Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player to demonstrate. I saw this player on a big Pioneer Elite plasma set, and I've got to tell you - it was the best looking picture I've ever seen - at least with the Pioneer demo disk, (including John's Toshiba HD-DVD player - sorry John). This projector is a very nice piece also.

Anyway, Denny is willing to lug this stuff over to my home theater, if enough of you geeks out there are willing to come see it. I need to set a date when you guys are free, and coordinate with the Sound Room. Let me know on this forum or via PM if you are interested. (I'm thinking Sunday afternoon, Nov. 26th - this is the Sunday after Thanksgiving. Soda, beer and leftover turkey on me.) If this date is too tough for kitchen passes, etc., early December is good for me also - let me know what works best for you guys.

Thanks, Don Bingaman

BTW - the rest of the set-up: Vandersteen Signature 5.1 loudspeaker system, Hafler Transnova amplifiication, Sony TA-E9000ES / TA-P9000ES processor/preamp, Pioneer DV-38a DVD, Hughes/Tivo HD DirecTV satellite rcvr., Sony ES SACD player (awesome sound). Dedicated 16' x 22' room with 100" Stewart Filmscreen Firehawk and ceiling mounted Sharpvision XV-Z9000U projector.......

Sounds good, but Sunday is NFL Day. Saturday would be better, but I'm in no matter when. Would be very good to be able to A/B the old and new Sharp. I also have the 9000.

Scott

Mike, Forget calling charter, they are useless! I got the hook-up for ya right here. ;)

1st hold down the "menu" and "ok" at the same time on the box itself and that will pull up the "On Screen Diagnostics".

Scroll down to 08 - Actions and Triggers and push "enter" (you can do these functions with the remote)

scroll down to 83 - List of Various Triggers and push "enter"

now you will see 9 different triggers starting with "Trigger Content Update" all the way through "Trigger DB Maintenance"

select all 9 of these triggers slowly. The Moxi is a little slow to respond to commands so just go line by line. After you have checked (X) all 9 boxes, let the box update and your done.

Enjoy!

Tom,

Thanks for the incredibly quick info. Question: Once I hit "ok" on the box while the X is beside the first trigger (1st one being "trigger context update") ... the response I get is, "Trigger has started Context Update" Do I wait until I get a different message before I move the cursor down to the next trigger? I know you said to slowly select them...but didn't know if I had to wait for each trigger to complete itself before moving onto the next one.

THANKS AGAIN!
mike

Mike, Forget calling charter, they are useless! I got the hook-up for ya right here. ;)

1st hold down the "menu" and "ok" at the same time on the box itself and that will pull up the "On Screen Diagnostics".

Scroll down to 08 - Actions and Triggers and push "enter" (you can do these functions with the remote)

scroll down to 83 - List of Various Triggers and push "enter"

now you will see 9 different triggers starting with "Trigger Content Update" all the way through "Trigger DB Maintenance"

select all 9 of these triggers slowly. The Moxi is a little slow to respond to commands so just go line by line. After you have checked (X) all 9 boxes, let the box update and your done.

Enjoy!

You dont have to wait, just make sure you get them all ;)

"They've done studies you know, 60% of the time it works everytime"

Tom,

I actually did just that...checked them all and then waited. One of them returned a "trigger failed"....forgot which one...it was in the middle somewhere.

Anyway, when it was done (after it eventually reset itself) I still had "no data available" on all the channels on the guide. Does it take a while to get the info to the guide?

THANKS AGAIN!
mike

I was wrong...Trigger Context Update was the one that failed.

I was wrong...Trigger Context Update was the one that failed.

My guess is that their is something wrong with the modem in your box. Probably with the way they provisioned it. Call charter and press the buttons as if you would cancel your account. This will get you to a live AMERICAN with retention. Tell them your problem and see if they can help.

Good luck

Tim

I was allready to pull the trigger and get the VIP622 and HD from E*. One of the reasons was currently with my series 2 Tivo and Charter standard cable, my picture is quite fuzzy on my 50" Samsung. Then I read a thread over at dbstalk and a bunch of people are saying the SD performance of the 622 is not good. Any here with the 622 can to comment on it? Will it be better that what I have. I know SD will not ever look great on my hdtv but with charter directly into the back it's okay but thru my Tivo it's noticeably fuzzy.
One more does the 622 have the ability to group shows you have recorded? Like folders on the Tivo?

Thanks, Moat.

I was allready to pull the trigger and get the VIP622 and HD from E*. One of the reasons was currently with my series 2 Tivo and Charter standard cable, my picture is quite fuzzy on my 50" Samsung. Then I read a thread over at dbstalk and a bunch of people are saying the SD performance of the 622 is not good. Any here with the 622 can to comment on it? Will it be better that what I have. I know SD will not ever look great on my hdtv but with charter directly into the back it's okay but thru my Tivo it's noticeably fuzzy.
One more does the 622 have the ability to group shows you have recorded? Like folders on the Tivo?I think the 622 will probably have nominally better SD picture quality than with your TiVo/Charter combination, as the 622 will be seeing and storing the digital signal that comes straight off the satellite without any conversion. On the other hand, you're taking Charter's digital signal and taking a converted analog signal from the STB to feed your TiVo, then the TiVo is taking that RF/composite/S-Video signal and digitizing and compressing it again for storage.

Avoiding this additional compression/conversion will give the 622 an edge in overall SD picture quality. But you're right not to expect miracles -- the difference won't be huge, so don't get your hopes too high.

Sorry, but I don't know if the 622 has a "folders" function.

Thanks for the reply. Right now I just have extended basic from Charter so I have no cable box. I just plug the cable right into the Tivo and use the Tivo's built in tuner.
The statement that worried me was that they are compressing SD channels to help with bandwidth issues they are having.
Seems like right now there is no HD options that seems to be much better than anything else out there.
I love the picture I am getting with OTA but I want more HD channels and DVR functions.

-Moat

Moat,

Regardless of whether it's DISH, DirecTV or Charter, all providers are applying excessive compression to SD channels -- this is not a new development and based on my limited exposure to DISH SD, I don't think they are worse than the others.

I'd suggest you focus your decision on what you're gaining on the HD side of the ledger and consider SD "a wash," whichever way you ultimately decide to go.

One more does the 622 have the ability to group shows you have recorded? Like folders on the Tivo?

Currently does not have any folder option. You can sort alphabetically or by date recorded. So I guess in a sense you can 'group' them if you sort alphabetically, but there aren't folders.

As far as SD content goes, I'd assume it's just like SD content from anywhere, looks great as long as the screen is smaller than 32". Once your screen starts getting much larger than that there isn't enough information to keep the image from getting a little fuzzy.

The SD quality is not worse than Charter, in my opinion. May not be better, but definitely not worse.

I apologize if this is the wrong forum...but I was looking for some help in the STL area.

Charter installed a Moxi BMC9012F2 hi-def DVR yesterday in my house. It replaced the other basic digital / hd box that was just installed 3 weeks ago.

When I hit the moxi button on the remote, the channel guide that appears displays "no data available" on EVERY channel. Also missing is the name of the channel itself. The channel number is displayed, but not what the name of the show is.

It also won't let me record anything, probably because the channel guide doesn't work (just a guess though). It does record the current channel for about 6 minutes or so, but I can't record anything other than what I'm currently watching. According to a MOXI faq I read it appears to be the temp memory.

I've made 6 calls to charter between last night and today. They keep saying they would send a signal to reset the box, but the box never flashed or reset itself (as the prior box did when I had to have Charter reset that one). I've also unplugged the device for a while to no avail. Now they say they will send a tech out in a week and half.

Can anyone offer any suggestions, other than throwing this thing out the door, especially after the last tech tried selling me additional crap while waiting for the box to reboot ???

I'd also be open for a local phone number to talk to charter...I keep getting connected to Charter in the Philippines.

When you called Charter did you ask for Charter Digital? For HD you need to talk to the digital department or the other mutants will screw up your stuff. Make sure you get the number off the barcode on the bottom of the box so they can address THAT box and not your old one (which is probably happening). They can then probably fix your problem.

Walt

I concur with Doug and Zev on the SD PQ. I was at my daughters when she switched from Charter to Dish. One of her primary concerns was the SD PQ. On her Sony RPTV 46," it was noticeably improved. On her JVC RPTV 52," it was just as bad. Why? I don't know, but we viewed the same channels immediately before and after on both displays. She's using Dish 211 HD receivers and OTA. I think the display size and type, have more effect than anything else.

OTOH, I think all will concur KPLR SD PQ sucks...period! And, some of the SD channels are far better than others, delivered by the same provider. Overall, she felt the Dish SD PQ was better than charter, but not by much.

FTR, 622 sorting options available is:
Alpha/Numeric; DVR Date; Movies; Series/Specials; Sports; DVR Length; Protected. There is "some" ability to group programs into folders, Movies, Sports, etc., but it is a very general folder system.

(spelling)

I'm looking for a good HDD DVD recorder. I would like to have it with the TV Guide EPG, at least a 160gig HD, and has a decent upconvert on the video. I know a few have component inputs for recording (at 480i though) and that would be a plus. Anyone have any ideas?

Anyone here with Charter heard about or seen an expanded VOD offering that is free with sponsorship by Vehix.com? Earlier this afternoon I received a phone call from a reporter at Multichannel News asking if I knew anything about it.

Any sightings? Any comments?

A bit offtopic but if anyone locally knows the answer to this, it'd be you guys (and gals)....

Is there a switch type device that can take audio from 8-10 ipods and let you switch between them to send ONE of those ipods' signals to a receiver and speakers? This is the sort of thing I've been told to find/make for our ipod displays at work. I've looked at BB, CC, Radio Shack, Tigerdirect, and Newegg... and haven't found diddley squat.

I've even tried the local computer place that custom made the VGA splitter boxes that let us send one PC's video output to all six monitors that we sell.... guess what, they're out of business.

Does anyone here know if such a switching device actually exists? If so, where can I get one? If not, anyone know of someplace that can custom build one?

Since this is totally offtopic, it'd probably be best to reply via PM rather than here on the forum.

Thanks...

Anyone here with Charter heard about or seen an expanded VOD offering that is free with sponsorship by Vehix.com? Earlier this afternoon I received a phone call from a reporter at Multichannel News asking if I knew anything about it.


Any sightings? Any comments?

Doug:

I searched "vehix" with a keyword search on the MOXI

Came up with 72 offering of Vehix/wheels tv 3 minute blips on 2006/2007 cars. At the beginning of one of the episode there is 15 sec commercial for Charter bundels.

Wolverine5767

wolverine,

You mean you searched Charter for "Vehix" and you came up with ads for cars?

That doesn't sound very interesting, at least to me.

Thanks for checking it out.

Senate Committee to Review DirecTV's Sunday Ticket Exclusive

Q: Who's more pathetic here -- the grandstanding elected officials or the sore loser cable companies?

A: Too close to call.

The following excerpt is from today's TV Predictions newsletter:
_______________________________________________________

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) has called a last-minute hearing tomorrow to investigate whether DIRECTV's NFL Sunday Ticket violates antitrust laws.

Specter, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, is likely convening the session now because his party lost control of the Senate in last week's elections. He will have to turn over the chairmanship to the Democrats in January.

DIRECTV, the nation's leading satellite TV service, has an exclusive deal with the National Football League to offer the pay package of pro games. The package includes several High-Definition TV broadcasts for an extra fee.

Cable TV operators have long complained that the exclusive arrangement gives DIRECTV an unfair advantage. Executives from DIRECTV and cable TV are expected to testify at tomorrow's hearing.
_______________________________________________________

To read the complete article, click here. (http://www.tvpredictions.com/senatedirectv111306.htm)

In response to the article Doug linked to....

GIVE ME A BREAK. We have a war going on and a Senator is worried that DirecTV has NFL Sunday Ticket.

In response to the article Doug linked to....

GIVE ME A BREAK. We have a war going on and a Senator is worried that DirecTV has NFL Sunday Ticket.That's why the GOP lost. They keep trying to distract us with stupid crap from their colossal failure starting a war and getting us into it deeper while the majority believe we should not even be fighting it at all.

Just a word of caution. Let's not turn this into a GOP vs DEM vs IND argument...You think
the Charter vs D* vs E* was ugly...

That is why I was non specific.

For HD TiVo DirecTV customers, I saw this note over on the KC board, indicating that a fix for the 6.3a release may be in the works.
____________________________________________________________
from js615, via the AVS "KC - HDTV" discussion:

I am on the phone with D*TV right now and they tell me the interim fix is to disable Dolby Digital and use PCM until the new software push reaches my boxes. Apparently the current version of HR10-250 HD Tivo software (6.3a) is the cause and the new software has been pushing since last week.
____________________________________________________________

I have no idea if this should be considered confirmation that DirecTV has solved this problem, but I thought it was worth passing on here, in case someone else has seen something that confirms (or refutes) this.

For HD TiVo DirecTV customers, I saw this note over on the KC board, indicating that a fix for the 6.3a release may be in the works.
____________________________________________________________
from js615, via the AVS "KC - HDTV" discussion:

I am on the phone with D*TV right now and they tell me the interim fix is to disable Dolby Digital and use PCM until the new software push reaches my boxes. Apparently the current version of HR10-250 HD Tivo software (6.3a) is the cause and the new software has been pushing since last week.
____________________________________________________________

I have no idea if this should be considered confirmation that DirecTV has solved this problem, but I thought it was worth passing on here, in case someone else has seen something that confirms (or refutes) this.A D* tech has called me several times to ask questions about my issues. He also suggested switching Dolby Digital to PCM. But when the 6.3a update was applied to my box, it left it at PCM output. After I noticed I had the problem I went in and found it that way, and set it back to DD (I am using the optical output). I have the issues with either setting.

D* tells me fixing this is a top priority.

A D* tech has called me several times to ask questions about my issues. He also suggested switching Dolby Digital to PCM. But when the 6.3a update was applied to my box, it left it at PCM output. After I noticed I had the problem I went in and found it that way, and set it back to DD (I am using the optical output). I have the issues with either setting.

D* tells me fixing this is a top priority.

I just hooked up my HR10-250 and it got the update. All of this was last week. Mine is set to DD and I've had no problems at all. Granted, I don't watch much fox, but other people mentioned problems on other stations too. I guess I might just be one of the lucky ones.
Dug

I just hooked up my HR10-250 and it got the update. All of this was last week. Mine is set to DD and I've had no problems at all. Granted, I don't watch much fox, but other people mentioned problems on other stations too. I guess I might just be one of the lucky ones.
DugD* told me that not everyone is affected. I also have a problem with recordings not being properly flagged for audio. When I play back I have to cycle the modes on my DD PLIIx receiver until it recognizes the audio stream up the audio.

Kind of OT, but I got to see the PS3 in action this past weekend at Target near Brentwood and Eager. To be honest, it didn't really look as great as it should. Granted it takes time for a new console to really hit its stride and start taking advantage of the power within (look at the 360 games coming out now, such as Gears Of War) but I was kind of let down. Not like the PS3 is going to be that easy to come across for awhile... just thought I'd jump in and post that useless observation.

(I should add that I was judging the HD gameplay; no Blu-Ray movie was being demoed)

In response to the article Doug linked to....

GIVE ME A BREAK. We have a war going on and a Senator is worried that DirecTV has NFL Sunday Ticket.

Mark my words, when DirectTV loses exclusive rights to NFL Sunday Ticket (and they will), DirectTV is finished. There will be no compelling reason whatsoever for people to put up with the hassles of satellite.

does anyone know of any good charter plans right now? (yes, yes, I know they suck.)

This would mean the 12.5m Dish subs, which has never had Sunday Ticket, must just enjoy the hassles of satellite TV.

IMO, exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket is not going to be the demise of NewsCorp owned DirecTv. The depth of cable/satellite competitive programing reaches light-years beyond any one single exclusive event offering.

I suppose if the Haunted House ride closed, News Corp would close all Disney attractions worldwide. Perhaps their 40% ownership in the Kings and Staples center would be relinquished also.

...
IMO, exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket is not going to be the demise of NewsCorp owned DirecTv. The depth of cable/satellite competitive programing reaches light-years beyond any one single exclusive event offering....If D* has to give up exclusive rights to NFL ST I doubt it will affect them all that much. I imagine only a small minority of D* would jump ship if NFL ST starts getting offered on other systems. Even then D* will be competitive in pricing and keep most from doing that. Who really believes this could actually be D*'s demise anyway. That's a bit extreme.

I wonder what percentage of D* subs have NFL ST. I have it this year for the first time in 8 years as a customer, only because it was the cheapest way to get my second HR1-250. I will not renew it next year.

I just hooked up my HR10-250 and it got the update. All of this was last week. Mine is set to DD and I've had no problems at all. Granted, I don't watch much fox, but other people mentioned problems on other stations too. I guess I might just be one of the lucky ones.
Dug

It can take a few days for the problem to develop according to posts at TCL and DBS Talk.

I wonder what percentage of D* subs have NFL ST. I have it this year for the first time in 8 years as a customer, only because it was the cheapest way to get my second HR1-250. I will not renew it next year.
Excellent point Dean. Anyone know approximately how many total subs D* currently has?
I'd guess, and it's just an uneducated guess, less than 30% have had ST for 2+ years, eliminating those like yourself who took it for 1 year to leverage other features.

I once read only 20% of E* subs had HD packages. This figure was prior to E* changing their programming tiers to the more HD structured they now have.

I would definitely jump to E* if they had Sunday Ticket, because they have more HD channels offered.

I would definitely jump to E* if they had Sunday Ticket, because they have more HD channels offered.I bet that is likely to change within a year. Once D* is finished launching their birds and rolling out HD locals, they will start adding national HD channels. They have to, and they know it.

I suppose if the Haunted House ride closed, News Corp would close all Disney attractions worldwide. Perhaps their 40% ownership in the Kings and Staples center would be relinquished also.

Since News Corp doesn't own Disney, I dont see this happening.

It can take a few days for the problem to develop according to posts at TCL and DBS Talk.
That's not nice :p

I was happy living in blissful ignorance. Hopefully everything will stay good until the rumored update...

Dug

Since News Corp doesn't own Disney, I dont see this happening.
Exactly.

If D* has to give up exclusive rights to NFL ST I doubt it will affect them all that much. I imagine only a small minority of D* would jump ship if NFL ST starts getting offered on other systems. Even then D* will be competitive in pricing and keep most from doing that. Who really believes this could actually be D*'s demise anyway. That's a bit extreme.

I wonder what percentage of D* subs have NFL ST. I have it this year for the first time in 8 years as a customer, only because it was the cheapest way to get my second HR1-250. I will not renew it next year.

Actually, what was reported on here was not really even correct. The hearings are more about the heavy-handed tactics of the NFL. The NFL has tried to force the cable companies to carry NFL Network in certain tiers, thereby increasing the cost for everyone whether they want it or not. The Sunday Ticket is just an added sideshow since the NFL gave exclusive rights to DirectTV through 2010. Comcast has offered to make a bid to carry it but the NFL won't even take a bid from them. This is more about offering consumers choice, and keeping costs low. It about the NFL, not DirectTV. When DirectTV loses their exclusive rights to Sunday ticket they probably won't go totally under, but they will be hurt badly. They are already showing VERY meager subscriber gains. Technology has passed them by. The future is all about cable companies. AT&T will have a chance of competing with them, but it will be tough for them even due to the huge costs of putting in the infrastructure needed. DirectTV will eventually combine with Dish, or be bought out by some other phone company other than AT&T.

If D* has to give up exclusive rights to NFL ST I doubt it will affect them all that much. I imagine only a small minority of D* would jump ship if NFL ST starts getting offered on other systems. Even then D* will be competitive in pricing and keep most from doing that. Who really believes this could actually be D*'s demise anyway. That's a bit extreme.

I wonder what percentage of D* subs have NFL ST. I have it this year for the first time in 8 years as a customer, only because it was the cheapest way to get my second HR1-250. I will not renew it next year.


You should remember to call and actually CANCEL it .. if I'm not mistaken, it auto-renews unless you call to say "I don't want it anymore." Subtle fine print.

You should remember to call and actually CANCEL it .. if I'm not mistaken, it auto-renews unless you call to say "I don't want it anymore." Subtle fine print.Thanks. I was already planning to go to my online account as soon as the season is over and delete it. I assumed it auto-renewed.

I was watching "House" in HD last night on my HR20 and the audio sync was way off. Anyone else exprience this problem. I wound up watching it on standard def. Not good.

Mark my words, when DirectTV loses exclusive rights to NFL Sunday Ticket (and they will), DirectTV is finished. There will be no compelling reason whatsoever for people to put up with the hassles of satellite.


Dishnetwork has done just fine without the Sunday Ticket.

At least they make a profit...

I was watching "House" in HD last night on my HR20 and the audio sync was way off. Anyone else exprience this problem. I wound up watching it on standard def. Not good.

I did not see any audio sync problems via OTA on "House" last night.

Mark my words, when DirectTV loses exclusive rights to NFL Sunday Ticket (and they will), DirectTV is finished. There will be no compelling reason whatsoever for people to put up with the hassles of satellite.

Would Charter even have the bandwidth to offer every game that shot in HD like D* does currently? That would be one reason to put up the hassles of satellite?

As long as Charter doesn't offer NBA League Pass, D* or E* will have my business.

does anyone know of any good charter plans right now? (yes, yes, I know they suck.)

The best Charter plan is available by calling 1-800-DIRECTV. :)

I was watching "House" in HD last night on my HR20 and the audio sync was way off. Anyone else exprience this problem. I wound up watching it on standard def. Not good.
It was fine on the DISH SAT HD locals also.

The best Charter plan is available by calling 1-800-DIRECTV. :)
HAHAHA

The other night, someone from Charter called and asked if I would be willing to answer a customer survey... you know, the basic "what made you leave, who did you go with, bleeh blah blooh" kind of stuff. I was nice and even asked if he wanted to let me go, because the answers were as blunt as possible. Finally, he asked how likely I was to return to Charter's services and I had to say that I'd sooner carve my eyes out with a spoon.

But hey, they're trying to get some feedback, so kudos for that.

But hey, they're trying to get some feedback, so kudos for that.
Don't kid yourself, they're trying to get one of those service awards, like JD Power, so they can tout it in ads for the next year.

Can you imagine...Charter...winner of JD Power's Service Excellence Award....

Now, that'd call for a mass carving out of the eyeballs! :D

That would be one reason to put up the hassles of satellite?



I'm still trying to figure out the hassles.

I bet that is likely to change within a year. Once D* is finished launching their birds and rolling out HD locals, they will start adding national HD channels. They have to, and they know it.

I really hope so. I want food network in HD!

NFL Sunday Ticket is definitely a bigtime + for D*. I hope E* does get to carry it, so D* has some competition and the price may drop. Oh, and I have a "wooden" spoon ready if Charter wins in any survey.

Scott

Would Charter even have the bandwidth to offer every game that shot in HD like D* does currently? That would be one reason to put up the hassles of satellite?

As long as Charter doesn't offer NBA League Pass, D* or E* will have my business.

Cable companies have way more bandwidth than satellite. This is why they can offer internet, HDTV, and phone all over one line.

I'm still trying to figure out the hassles.

You should read the article in last sundays Barron's magazine. Some guy wrote the most scathing piece I have ever seen. He said DirectTV has the worst customer support and service of any place he has ever dealt with, and claimed this was very common. Might explain the high churn rate DirectTV has had.

Would Charter even have the bandwidth to offer every game that shot in HD like D* does currently? That would be one reason to put up the hassles of satellite?

As long as Charter doesn't offer NBA League Pass, D* or E* will have my business.All delivery systems have some sort a bandwidth limitation, and while satellite is probably the most constricted overall, cable has its issues as well, due to all of the additional services it provides other than television.

Here's a post from a few months back that cites a USA Today story, discussing the fact that cable systems are again feeling the bandwidth squeeze.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7774917&&#post7774917

How much this impacts any specific system or carrier is difficult to know -- just because a particular cable carrier isn't offering dozens of HD channels doesn't necessarily mean it is bandwidth-constricted. Some cable companies don't offer a broad HD offering because they don't believe enough subscribers want HD; others apparently don't see HD as the most effective use of overall resources (not just bandwidth).

For example, someone here recently reported that Charter has imposed a one-HD-receiver-per-household limit, and if true, that might indicate that quite apart from bandwidth there may be capital expenditure limitations dictating product offerings.

In addition, where cable companies are operating under a bandwidth crunch, they are looking at solutions to minimize that problem, such as broadcasting only those channels that viewers are currently tuned to. No doubt there are other ways to stretch out the utility of a finite pipe, some more effective/promising than others.

Finally, are you certain that Charter doesn't carry NBA League Pass? I seem to recall seeing slots for these games in a MOXI program guide some time back. But my recall may be wrong, or maybe the League Pass/Charter situation has changed. Or maybe they are just single PPV options, which would make them very expensive over the course of a season. Anyway, it might be worth checking into.

You should read the article in last sundays Barron's magazine. Some guy wrote the most scathing piece I have ever seen. He said DirectTV has the worst customer support and service of any place he has ever dealt with, and claimed this was very common. Might explain the high churn rate DirectTV has had.
Link....Please :confused:

You should read the article in last sundays Barron's magazine. Some guy wrote the most scathing piece I have ever seen. He said DirectTV has the worst customer support and service of any place he has ever dealt with, and claimed this was very common. Might explain the high churn rate DirectTV has had.

From personal experience, the only issue I have ever had is with their sub contracted
Install company Premier.

Usually I install my own stuff cuz I like it done my way.

But overall, DirecTV has been great to me. I have gotten 2 free SD DVR's, 1 Free HD
TIVO, 1 Free HD DVR, SuperFan Free for 2 years, the HD Package Free and Showtime
Free.

I usually tell people if they aren't high into sports then any provider is fine.

I don't have Charter because DSL was available in my area a long time ago.
I have been an SBC DLS subscriber for over 7 years.

So, nothing against Charter, I even interviewed there, just not a subscriber due
to different reasons.

Went to the remodeled Helen Fitzgeralds to try and watch the Rams loose again this last Sunday. They’ve been advertising on radio about their remodeling with “over 15 new flat screen HDTV’s” so we decided to check them out.

Was disappointed with their setup and technical problems; hopefully they will get these fixed soon so that they can keep the crowds coming back.

St. Louis Sports Zone is the best sports bar in St. Louis from a technical standpoint when trying to watch multiple football games on Saturday and Sunday. The guy that runs the TVs there knows what he’s doing and has a good setup. This is reflected by home busy the place is on the weekend and the amount of business they do. (I would go there more often if the place wasn’t so darn smoky.)

Helen Fitzgeralds is clearly aiming for this market and misses the mark. They have clearly invested a lot of money in 16 42” plasma HDTVs and three 56” Mitsubishi 1080p DLPs. However there are enough issues that make me wary of coming back to watch games.

First of all the still have a number of old-school standard def TVs in the game room side. The problem is they run about 8 second ahead of the HD signal so people would be cheering or groaning a play before we had even seen a snap. Secondly they were using a number of different sources for the HDTVs: as many as three as far as I could tell and they were off by 1 or 2 seconds. So you would have two TV's right next to each other showing the Rams game and the two were off my about a second or two. Thirdly for the first half of the game they used the SD signal for the audio so it wasn’t synched with many of the TVs.

It appeared like some people were complaining and they tried to fix it, but the managers that attempted to fix the problem didn’t know what they were doing and in some cases made the situation worse.

Someone needs to go in there and help them out so they can be successful.

I like watching at Harrah's so I can get rich while my (insert local team except Cardinals) lose on the nice TV's.

Link....Please :confused:

I get it hard copy on my driveway, so I don't have a link.

-- just because a particular cable carrier isn't offering dozens of HD channels doesn't necessarily mean it is bandwidth-constricted. Some cable companies don't offer a broad HD offering because they don't believe enough subscribers want HD; others apparently don't see HD as the most effective use of overall resources (not just bandwidth).

This is exactly right. Cable companies have figured out for now they can make more money selling multiple tiers of high speed internet, and various phone packages than selling HDTV. At some point when the growth slows in the internet and phone services, they will devote more resources to HDTV.

Here is a link (http://users2.barrons.com/lmda/do/checkLogin?mg=barrons-users2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.barrons.com%2Farticle_search%2FSB116 320493091020389.html%3Fmod%3Dsearch%26KEYWORDS%3Ddirectv%26C OLLECTION%3Dbarrons%2Farchive) but you have to be a paid member.

This is exactly right. Cable companies have figured out for now they can make more money selling multiple tiers of high speed internet, and various phone packages than selling HDTV. At some point when the growth slows in the internet and phone services, they will devote more resources to HDTV.

JimGlobe you sound like a Cable Insider....Come on..let the cat out of the bag :D

Here is a link (http://users2.barrons.com/lmda/do/checkLogin?mg=barrons-users2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.barrons.com%2Farticle_search%2FSB116 320493091020389.html%3Fmod%3Dsearch%26KEYWORDS%3Ddirectv%26C OLLECTION%3Dbarrons%2Farchive) but you have to be a paid member.

I wonder what Peter Lynch would say about Charter's stock?

Scott

I wonder what Peter Lynch would say about Charter's stock?

Scott

A buddy of mine made some nice coin off of their stock. He bought it at $.50 and sold it at $4.00. Then it took a crap again.

A buddy of mine made some nice coin off of their stock. He bought it at $.50 and sold it at $4.00. Then it took a crap again.You mean he sold short at $50 and bought it at $4?

No, he bought it at $0.50. Fifty Cents.

First Time poster...

I am in the market for a new TV for the family and have been researching the LG 30FS4D.

It appears that besides OTA the LG can support QAM with the built in HDTV tuner. My question is:

Does Charter in St. Louis have UnEncrypted QAM? Im not looking for ESPN/HBO etc.. HD but more along the lines of the Local channels. I' am not opposed to hooking up an OTA antenna, but I'd like to be able to jsut pull that programing from the charter feed....

thanks..

Brent in WG...

Does Charter in St. Louis have UnEncrypted QAM? Im not looking for ESPN/HBO etc.. HD but more along the lines of the Local channels. I' am not opposed to hooking up an OTA antenna, but I'd like to be able to jsut pull that programing from the charter feed....My understanding is that the local HD channels are encrypted on Charter, so you wouldn't be able to get them via QAM. Maybe that has changed recently, but I can't recall hearing that.

Also, be aware that you Charter does not currently provide KDNL-DT at all, due to a dispute over money with station owner Sinclair Broadcasting. If you watch ABC programming and wish to see it in HD, you will need a separate OTA tuner and an antenna, regardless of the QAM situation.

I assume that your built-in HDTV tuner does OTA, and if so, you just need to have an antenna if you want to get KDNL.

Hope this helps. And welcome to the board, Brent

No, he bought it at $0.50. Fifty Cents.Now that is a NICE return...:D

A buddy of mine made some nice coin off of their stock. He bought it at $.50 and sold it at $4.00. Then it took a crap again.

Was his name Jimglobe? :D

Does Charter in St. Louis have UnEncrypted QAM? Im not looking for ESPN/HBO etc.. HD but more along the lines of the Local channels. I' am not opposed to hooking up an OTA antenna, but I'd like to be able to jsut pull that programing from the charter feed....

Brent in WG...

From personal experience: Charter does not offer the local HDs unencrypted QAM. I've had several QAM equipped tv's (lg and philips) hooked up to a Charter digital feed with no success. You do, however, pick up everyone in your neighborhood's pay-per-view...which makes it scary to walk the dog at night and embarrassing to channel surf when the relatives are over.... :eek: :D :confused:

The weird thing is, you can get some of the digital OTA subchannels unencrypted...for example, you can pick up 5.2's weather channel thingie...

Since Charters jerked me around for too long on the moxie, I've picked up a sony tivo-esque box equipped with CableCard to record in HD, and it's hooked into an OTA antenna to pick up channel 30.1.

-Matt

You should read the article in last sundays Barron's magazine. Some guy wrote the most scathing piece I have ever seen. He said DirectTV has the worst customer support and service of any place he has ever dealt with, and claimed this was very common. Might explain the high churn rate DirectTV has had.

While I know it is "cool" to rip on Charter, I'm glad that we have folks like you out there who present the other side of the story. I'm certainly not interested in the lame personal attacks that you and others have been accused of being part of, but as a happy Charter customer I think it is important that people like you speak up and let it be known that Charter does actually get it right for some of us.

Not to mention the fact that I have yet to see a deal offered on any satellite that can get me programming on unlimited TVs including 1 HD box, with all of the movie channels (on one TV) for less than $60 per month. Yes, this is an "introductory offer," but I have been reaping the benefits of this for nearly 2 years now.

I sincerely agree with those who have taken the stance that there is not one "right choice" when selecting a TV programming provider. If I had unlimited funds, I would certainly ditch Charter for whichever satellite provided more HD programming. But I would likely also pay over $100 per month to get this on all my TVs.

Anyway, thanks to everyone who participates on this forum and voices their opinions (in a respectful manner)!

My understanding is that the local HD channels are encrypted on Charter, so you wouldn't be able to get them via QAM. Maybe that has changed recently, but I can't recall hearing that.

Also, be aware that you Charter does not currently provide KDNL-DT at all, due to a dispute over money with station owner Sinclair Broadcasting. If you watch ABC programming and wish to see it in HD, you will need a separate OTA tuner and an antenna, regardless of the QAM situation.

I assume that your built-in HDTV tuner does OTA, and if so, you just need to have an antenna if you want to get KDNL.

Hope this helps. And welcome to the board, Brent

Doug

Are you sure they are encrypted? It is my understanding that it is ILLEGAL for cable companies to encrypt ANY local channels. At least I read that in another part of this forum. Charter may have the HD channels unencrypted but out of the tuning reach of the QAM tuners.

Walt

The best Charter plan is available by calling 1-800-DIRECTV. :)

thanks for the help.

Doug

Are you sure they are encrypted? It is my understanding that it is ILLEGAL for cable companies to encrypt ANY local channels. At least I read that in another part of this forum. Charter may have the HD channels unencrypted but out of the tuning reach of the QAM tuners.

WaltNo, I'm not sure they are encrypted and I believe that my response indicates that. Likewise, I'm not aware that there is any FCC requirement for digital locals to be freely available and accessible via QAM tuners, and I never claimed that it was. However, (like you) I have seen this reported many times online. Whether that's true or Internet legend, I don't know.

What does seem certain, based on past reports from Charter customers here, is that the local digitals are not availble from Charter via a QAM-capable tuner. Whether that violates an FCC order, I don't know and my search of the web for some evidence that this is actually a requirement came up empty. Again, that's not to say that it is or isn't a requirement, and if this is important to you or anyone else, I suggest that you conduct your own search or contact the FCC to locate the relevant document/ruling.

FWIW, in doing my search this morning, I did stumble across a document that addresses the claim that cable systems are supposed to provide, upon customer request, high-definition receivers with functional Firewire AND DVI/HDMI outputs.This is another "cable company requirement" that is regularly quoted online but one that I've never seen documented. So, I thought I'd go ahead and provide that reference here.

Note that it's possible that this ruling subsequently has been superceded by another ruling, but I didn't attempt to determine if that was the case. If you do a search for FCC rulings, you'll find that the agency rules on so many things (even within a fairly specific set of search terms) that it's very difficult to know what is and isn't required.

Another case, no doubt, where less would be better than more. :)

For future reference, the Firewire and DVI/HDMI excerpt can be found here (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf) (second page of excerpt, Subpart L, 4(i) and (ii):
__________________________________________________________

(i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade the customer’s set-top box by download or other means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.

(ii) Effective July 1, 2005, include both a DVI or HDMI interface and an IEEE 1394 interface on all high definition set-top boxes acquired by a cable operator for distribution to customers.
__________________________________________________________

Again, let me state that it is possible that this rule has been overturned by another. It's also possible that the document cited is bogus, as it is an excerpt and does not come directly from the FCC web site.

This issue about Firewire and DVI/HDMI comes up here a lot. Maybe someone else can use this as a starting point to determine what EXACTLY is required.

Charter does encrypt the local digital feeds but not the SD feeds, and that is all the FCC requires. Cable Co's must carry all local analog channels, but digital only if the station does not broadcast an analog signal...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/digital.html

"Retransmission Consent

A commercial television station, broadcasting in both formats during the transition period, may choose must carry or retransmission consent for its analog signal and retransmission consent for its digital signal. A DTV-only commercial television station may elect either retransmission consent or must carry.

A DTV-only noncommercial station is also entitled to must carry. While a noncommercial television station does not have retransmission consent rights under Section 325 of the Act, it may nevertheless enter into digital carriage agreements with cable operators and other MVPDs.

A DTV-only television station may make its retransmission consent/must carry election any time between 60 days prior to commencing service and 30 days after commencing service. If must carry is chosen, the cable operator must commence carriage 90 days after the election is made.

A television station electing retransmission consent may negotiate with a cable operator for partial carriage of its digital television signal.

The current prohibition on exclusive retransmission consent agreements encompasses a television station’s analog and digital signals. This prohibition expires on January 1, 2006.

For the time being, a television station may tie the carriage of its digital signal with the carriage of the analog signal as a retransmission consent condition. The Commission will monitor the marketplace for potential abuses. "

Not to mention the fact that I have yet to see a deal offered on any satellite that can get me programming on unlimited TVs including 1 HD box, with all of the movie channels (on one TV) for less than $60 per month.

Not to nitpick, but this isn't exactly true. You can not get programming (including the movie channels) on an "unlimited" amount of TV's for under $60/month. You can get analog programming on an unlimited amount of TV's. That is, until your signal is too weak to provide ample signal to the TV's that have a digital cable box, to see the digital programming you're paying a premium for.

Yes, it's nice to have analog and those few dozen channels for a TV that you don't care about. I split my cable line to provide analog to my workout room, to feed an old ReplayTV and store stuff that wasn't critical viewing, rather than pay another $5/month for a D* feed to that room. But for every other HDTV and TV in the house, I like having 100% digital stations and 100% of the programming that I pay for only $5/month per receiver. It's been a while since I've had Charter, but I don't believe that you can get additional digital cable box's (w/ remotes) for $5/month. It's more like $7-8/month, right?

While I know it is "cool" to rip on Charter, I'm glad that we have folks like you out there who present the other side of the story. I'm certainly not interested in the lame personal attacks that you and others have been accused of being part of, but as a happy Charter customer I think it is important that people like you speak up and let it be known that Charter does actually get it right for some of us.

Not to mention the fact that I have yet to see a deal offered on any satellite that can get me programming on unlimited TVs including 1 HD box, with all of the movie channels (on one TV) for less than $60 per month. Yes, this is an "introductory offer," but I have been reaping the benefits of this for nearly 2 years now.

I sincerely agree with those who have taken the stance that there is not one "right choice" when selecting a TV programming provider. If I had unlimited funds, I would certainly ditch Charter for whichever satellite provided more HD programming. But I would likely also pay over $100 per month to get this on all my TVs.

Anyway, thanks to everyone who participates on this forum and voices their opinions (in a respectful manner)!

Thanks for your nice comments!

thanks for the help.

You're welcome. Just so we're all on the same page. Most of my Charter bashing is tongue in cheek. I know it's hard to get that sometimes through type on a page, but I really don't hate charter. Actually, I hate that a company like charter does not live up to its potential. I think they could be the best bet for many people with just a little more focus on customer service. Anyway, I realize that not everyone has the same needs. D* is the best fit for me. E* and Charter will be the best fit for others. I want all of the companies to do the best they can, so that in the end, we all benefit with better HDTV!

As to your original question about Charter deals, I have no idea. Maybe someone who works for Charter can help you out. Good luck.

Scott

Here is a link (http://users2.barrons.com/lmda/do/checkLogin?mg=barrons-users2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.barrons.com%2Farticle_search%2FSB116 320493091020389.html%3Fmod%3Dsearch%26KEYWORDS%3Ddirectv%26C OLLECTION%3Dbarrons%2Farchive) but you have to be a paid member.


Here is the actual article from barrons (http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20061115)

Quick question for those that have the HR10-250.....Even though it has 4 tuners (2 sat, 2 ota) it can only use 2 at a time, ie record 1-ota and watch 1-sat, not record 1-OTA and 1-sat and watch 1-sat or ota, correct?

i just want to make sure I'm not missing a setting somewhere.

Thanks
Dug

Quick question for those that have the HR10-250.....Even though it has 4 tuners (2 sat, 2 ota) it can only use 2 at a time, ie record 1-ota and watch 1-sat, not record 1-OTA and 1-sat and watch 1-sat or ota, correct?

i just want to make sure I'm not missing a setting somewhere.You have it correct and haven't missed anything -- you can manage two separate live activities, any combination or record or watch, simultaneously.

Of course, you can also watch something that was previously recorded while those two live activities are taking place.

Comcast to Launch HD Channel Combining Golf, Outdoors

The following story excerpt is from the weekly High Definition Newsletter from the TVWeek web site:
______________________________________________________

Comcast has announced the creation of a new high-definition cable channel combining content from its Versus and Golf Channel brands.

Beginning in January, the new network will simulcast Golf Channel programming by day and Versus (formerly OLN) content by night. Comcast, which owns both networks, plans to name the channel Golf Channel/Versus.

It will join Comcast's lineup of cable networks, which also includes E!, Style, G4 and regional sports outlets. Comcast has a commitment from DirecTV to start carrying the new offering sometime next year. Comcast will begin rolling out the new network on its own systems starting in January, a Versus executive said.
______________________________________________________

To read the complete story, click here. (http://www.tvweek.com/page.cms?pageId=398)

Doug

I'm sorry, you seem to take my post as an accusation. I in no way ment it that way. I'm just a lazy guy trying to get info in one of the best places on the net.

I found something interesting at Chuck's link above.

"Tiers and Rates

The Report and Order finds that digital television signals must be available to subscribers on a basic service tier. The Further Notice seeks comment on voluntary carriage of digital signals on a tier other than the basic tier. "

A basic service tier requires no box so doesn't that imply that a local digital station must come out the coax unencrypted.

I'm still reading the link.

Walt

Anyone with a E* 622 get a self-reboot after running a local channel scan?

Walt,

I never took that as any sort of accusation. I was trying to clarify what I'd written yesterday. In re-reading my note, maybe it sounds a bit cranky, but it was pretty early and I do sometimes have less than perfect starts to the day.

FWIW, I think some of the recent interactions here have raised overall sensibilities to a hyper-sensitve level. I think that's too bad, and I suspect that's a trend that's likely headed only in one direction. If that's the way it plays out, rather than anguish over my every written word in attempt to ensure that no one gets upset or offended, l'll be more selective about when and how I participate.

At the same time, I have some "new irons in the fire," specifically ownership and management of the ISF Forum, an online private board for ISF-trained calibrators and dealers. As a result of that additonal workload, I'm not going to have as much spare time in my day.

The ISF Forum won't come anywhere close to making me rich, but it sure pays a lot better than AVS... :)

There's plenty of other smart, objective and knowledgable people here, so I don't think it matters at all if I end up taking up fewer of the bits and bytes available here. But I'm sure that even at a scaled back level, I'll be getting more than my share.

But for every other HDTV and TV in the house, I like having 100% digital stations and 100% of the programming that I pay for only $5/month per receiver. It's been a while since I've had Charter, but I don't believe that you can get additional digital cable box's (w/ remotes) for $5/month. It's more like $7-8/month, right?

It is about $7.50/month for each additional HD STB with Charter. Of couse I did not have to buy the boxes. I'm not sure if the D* extra boxes need to be purchased or rented or if the $5/month includes the rental fee.

I setup a Channel Master Model 4221AUHF 4-bay Bow-tie Antenna from Skywalker here in St. Peters up in my attic. For the first 3 weeks my signal strength was allways 9-10 bars out of 10 bars. In the last week it has dropped to 5-6 bars. I changed nothing. Does the recent bad weather cause this? I stopped by and got a Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp just to see if that changed anything and when it's hooked up nothing changes, on or off. Any ideas?

-Moat

I setup a Channel Master Model 4221AUHF 4-bay Bow-tie Antenna from Skywalker here in St. Peters up in my attic. For the first 3 weeks my signal strength was allways 9-10 bars out of 10 bars. In the last week it has dropped to 5-6 bars. I changed nothing. Does the recent bad weather cause this? I stopped by and got a Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp just to see if that changed anything and when it's hooked up nothing changes, on or off. Any ideas?

-Moat

Are you receiving all channels? If so, leave it alone and enjoy. If not, try adjusting the antenna, and make sure it's secure. Maybe it moved.

Scott

I setup a Channel Master Model 4221AUHF 4-bay Bow-tie Antenna from Skywalker here in St. Peters up in my attic. For the first 3 weeks my signal strength was allways 9-10 bars out of 10 bars. In the last week it has dropped to 5-6 bars. I changed nothing. Does the recent bad weather cause this? I stopped by and got a Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp just to see if that changed anything and when it's hooked up nothing changes, on or off. Any ideas?

-Moat
My usually always-stable signal strengths dropped off, and were somewhat erratic last week. I do what Scott suggested...as long as I'm getting all the same channels, and the antenna hasn't moved, I chalk it up to the no-rhyme/no-reason of terrestrial reception.

FWIW, I think some of the recent interactions here have raised overall sensibilities to a hyper-sensitve level. I think that's too bad, and I suspect that's a trend that's likely headed only in one direction. If that's the way it plays out, rather than anguish over my every written word in attempt to ensure that no one gets upset or offended, l'll be more selective about when and how I participate.
That would be playing directly into the hand of those guilty of such perpetration.
Under any circumstances, should anyone allow themselves to reduce to their level.

I always write what I think. If I rub someone wrong, I apologize. Anyone here knows, it surely won't be my first time. :o

Walt,

I never took that as any sort of accusation. I was trying to clarify what I'd written yesterday. In re-reading my note, maybe it sounds a bit cranky, but it was pretty early and I do sometimes have less than perfect starts to the day.

FWIW, I think some of the recent interactions here have raised overall sensibilities to a hyper-sensitve level. I think that's too bad, and I suspect that's a trend that's likely headed only in one direction. If that's the way it plays out, rather than anguish over my every written word in attempt to ensure that no one gets upset or offended, l'll be more selective about when and how I participate.

At the same time, I have some "new irons in the fire," specifically ownership and management of the ISF Forum, an online private board for ISF-trained calibrators and dealers. As a result of that additonal workload, I'm not going to have as much spare time in my day.

The ISF Forum won't come anywhere close to making me rich, but it sure pays a lot better than AVS... :)

There's plenty of other smart, objective and knowledgable people here, so I don't think it matters at all if I end up taking up fewer of the bits and bytes available here. But I'm sure that even at a scaled back level, I'll be getting more than my share.

Hey, Doug,

Congrats on the ISF Forum. Sounds like a great idea. Sorry we won't be hearing from you as much. I'm sure the ISF gig will occupy a lot of your time, but don't forget us. I've been reading and enjoying your posts for over four years, when I signed up for AVS.

Overall, I have a lot of faith in the integrity of the St. Louis thread. We do a pretty good job of policing ourselves in the long run. We've had a nasty run lately, but in the end I think the juvenile and spiteful posting will go away. Those kinds of posts are of no benefit to anyone.

Doug

Like Joe I'm glad for your new endeavor. It is always good for your hobby to provide a positive cash flow. It makes the work much more enjoyable. I am also sorry we won't see you around here as often. You provide a lot of good information and are one of the reasons I frequent this place. In fact the St. Louis thread is the only part of this forum I read almost every day. I, like many others with my display technology, have moved to another less restrictive forum where open discussion of ALL display devices is permitted without moderation.

Walt

It is about $7.50/month for each additional HD STB with Charter. Of couse I did not have to buy the boxes. I'm not sure if the D* extra boxes need to be purchased or rented or if the $5/month includes the rental fee.

D* boxes (SD) are leased, and included in the $4.99/month leasing fee. Back when you owned your D* equipment, they would basically throw in SD boxes for free, so not much has changed on that front. As I've switched from SD to HD, to HD DVR's, I've got quite a stack of old D* SD and HD receivers in my basement, ready to throw back into service if the need would arrive for 10 TV's in the house. :) They don't really have much value anymore since D* leases everything now. Perhaps my HD models are worth something for their OTA tuning capability w/o having to signup for D*, but I've never bothered to sell em.


Overall, I have a lot of faith in the integrity of the St. Louis thread. We do a pretty good job of policing ourselves in the long run.

Yeah, this thread isn't going anywhere. I remember, back before the Local HDTV section started, having to create a new monthly thread and post a link to the old monthly thread on the first page and a post on the old thread linking to the new one, each and every month. It's nice that we have one monster thread now.

That would be playing directly into the hand of those guilty of such perpetration.
Under any circumstances, should anyone allow themselves to reduce to their level.

I always write what I think. If I rub someone wrong, I apologize. Anyone here knows, it surely won't be my first time. :o
I write what I think, too... I know I bitch about Charter, but they're a corporation, so I think they can deal with it. If DirecTV screws me to similar effect, I'll bitch about them, too. Fact is, this forum has given me numerous fixes, solves, alternatives and I'm happy to have it.

(This was supposed to reaffirm my overall thankfulness that this board is here... sometimes my tone comes off as sniping or, worse, pure vitriol.)

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/technology/story/E52DF1B65FC7BB1386257229000CA946?OpenDocument)

I wonder if they will actually launch 15 cities by year end.



Token

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/technology/story/E52DF1B65FC7BB1386257229000CA946?OpenDocument)

I wonder if they will actually launch 15 cities by year end.
Token

Family friend is working mandatory overtime, so I would guess they would.

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/technology/story/E52DF1B65FC7BB1386257229000CA946?OpenDocument)

I wonder if they will actually launch 15 cities by year end.If they were to include Eurosport and Eurosport2, I'd probably be interested in switching, even if it meant giving up HD for a while (and I don't watch that much that isn't OTA anyway).

Anyone with a E* 622 get a self-reboot after running a local channel scan?

Yes, this has happenned to me too. In fact, you don't have to do a scan to crash the system. Just changing the displayed call letters triggered it for me when I changed WB11 to CW11. I believe this bug was introduced in the last update or two and has been reported.

D* boxes (SD) are leased, and included in the $4.99/month leasing fee. Back when you owned your D* equipment, they would basically throw in SD boxes for free, so not much has changed on that front. As I've switched from SD to HD, to HD DVR's, I've got quite a stack of old D* SD and HD receivers in my basement, ready to throw back into service if the need would arrive for 10 TV's in the house. :) They don't really have much value anymore since D* leases everything now. Perhaps my HD models are worth something for their OTA tuning capability w/o having to signup for D*, but I've never bothered to sell em.





10 TV's.....do you own a motel. :)

I did some research on Charter's prices...and you need to because each STB is billed in three different line items. The actual prices are:

Additional HD STB : $9.95/month
$6.85 for box
$0.11 for remote
$2.99 for "Interactive Integrated Service"

Additional Digital STB: $6.95/month
$3.85 for box
$0.11 for remote
$2.99 for "Interactive Integrated Service"

I believe the "Interactive Integrated Service" is for such stuff as the Video on Demand and the ability to buy and view a movie and such. I don't believe you can opt-out of the "Interactive Integrated Service" and save the money but I would consider it. The remote control fee is just a joke.

When you call or order on-line they do not mention anything beyond the price for the box. I remember when I ordered two extra HD boxes that I was quoted only $14 more per month. It is this sort of practice that gives folks a bad taste for Charter customer service and if I remember when I had D* they had some hidden fees also.

...if I remember when I had D* they had some hidden fees also.No, I've been a D* sub since 98, and I've never seen anything I would call a hidden fee. Their billing is really pretty straightforward and easy to understand. The only time it gets marginally ambiguous is when you changes services mid billing cycle. Then you see pro-rated charges/credits, but it's nothing as bad as what you see on something like an SWB/AT&T bill.

No, I've been a D* sub since 98, and I've never seen anything I would call a hidden fee. Their billing is really pretty straightforward and easy to understand. The only time it gets marginally ambiguous is when you changes services mid billing cycle. Then you see pro-rated charges/credits, but it's nothing as bad as what you see on something like an SWB/AT&T bill.

Yea I had D* the second year it was available until 2003. The "hidden charge factor" was not near as insidious as Charter billing.

If they were to include Eurosport and Eurosport2, I'd probably be interested in switching, even if it meant giving up HD for a while (and I don't watch that much that isn't OTA anyway).

So does this AT&T deal not include HD programming? I didn't see anything related to HD programming. Is this a viable option once it becomes available?

When you call or order on-line they do not mention anything beyond the price for the box. I remember when I ordered two extra HD boxes that I was quoted only $14 more per month. It is this sort of practice that gives folks a bad taste for Charter customer service and if I remember when I had D* they had some hidden fees also.
DISH also has, I suppose what would be considered "hidden fees." They are disclosed at the time of order, online or phone, but only at the very end of the process. Additional Receiver Fees and DVR Fees are the most common.

For the most part, DISH bills are straight-forward and easy to understand. Cingular is my worst. Each month I spend an hour combing through the Cingular bill. Two months ago, I found TWO $10.84/mo SMS subscription fees. Cingular could not, or would not, identify who it was, but took them off, and credited the amounts back. AmeranUE is the best-ever bill!

A "Remote Control" fee...that's just outright insulting. I hope they come with batteries.

So does this AT&T deal not include HD programming? I didn't see anything related to HD programming. Is this a viable option once it becomes available?I don't know. When I first heard about this service, the biggest criticism was that it would not have HD initially. I do not know whether that is still true.

A "Remote Control" fee...that's just outright insulting. I hope they come with batteries.There's no free lunch. Including batteries would require another hidden fee. Don't you know that? :rolleyes:

No, I've been a D* sub since 98, and I've never seen anything I would call a hidden fee. Their billing is really pretty straightforward and easy to understand. The only time it gets marginally ambiguous is when you changes services mid billing cycle. Then you see pro-rated charges/credits, but it's nothing as bad as what you see on something like an SWB/AT&T bill.

10/25 11/24 TOTAL CHOICE PREMIER Monthly 96.99

10/25 11/24 HD Package Monthly 9.99

05/13 03/12 NFL SUNDAY TICKET SuperFan 2006 Special Free Offer 0.00

08/26 09/25 NFL Sunday Ticket 2006 Season Early Bird in 5 Payments 0.00

10/25 11/24 Network: FOX HD Monthly 0.00

10/25 11/24 Network: CBS from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25

10/25 11/24 Network: NBC from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25

10/25 11/24 Network: ABC from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25

10/25 11/24 Network: FOX from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25

10/25 11/24 Network: ABC HD Monthly 0.00

10/25 11/24 DIRECTV DVR Service Fee at no cost with Premier 0.00


Fees

10/26 Additional Receiver 4.99

10/26 Additional Receiver 4.99


AMOUNT DUE $0.00


Yeah, here is my bill. Pretty clear to me. No hidden fees for the last 12 years.

Almost identical to my DISH bill, Scott. I think what they're referring to is, the "additional receiver" fees are not disclosed when you place an order for service on the website. Oh...I'm sure they are in the T&A section, but who really reads them...it's not like understanding it is going to change it.

Funny thing is Dean, all DISH receivers are packaged with batteries their remotes, but they still package a set of composites with their HD receivers. Worse than that, the written DISH installation instructions for a HD receiver state to USE the composites.

If I hadn't gone to my daughter's and connected their systems, they would still be using composites. When I told my SIL he had to go buy some components, he said, "I'm just going to use the cables that came with the receiver, it says in the instruction book they will work fine.

...

Funny thing is Dean, all DISH receivers are packaged with batteries their remotes, but they still package a set of composites with their HD receivers. Worse than that, the written DISH installation instructions for a HD receiver state to USE the composites....It boggles the mind how technology companies can be their own worst enemy when it comes to educating the public about technical capabilities and features.

My HR10-250s both came with a HDMI cable (as well as S-Vid and Component), but the instructions are pretty clear about it. I wonder if anyone with a HR10-250 is not using HDMI/Component output?

I wonder if anyone with a HR10-250 is not using HDMI/Component output?
I recall Tom once posting it is an issue he deals with his customers on a regular basis. I don't remember if it was sensitive to any service in particular.
I'm pretty sure it's still a majority of main-stream viewers, that think digital and HD are the same thing.

I just took a look at AT&T's Homezone. I believe this is the first (in our market) of combining a land-based DSL IP and satellite DBS.

I believe this is the Uverse Token posted about earlier in the STL Today article.

Here is the AT&T link, if anyone here is interested in seeing the ISP/DVR receiver. On the TV side, the HD receiver a dual-tuner dual-TV HD DVR with dual OTA tuners. Programming is Dish Network. ISP is AT&T DSL. The back panel of the HD receiver looks exactly like the back panel on a Dish 622.
http://www.sbc.com/gen/general?pid=7910&DCMP=att_homezone

And so, it begins.....

In a way, I'm glad AT&T DSL is not yet available in my area. I can just imagine all the bugs this thing will have for the first adopters, and I couldn't resist.
It's that JCS in me. ;)

I just took a look at AT&T's Homezone. I believe this is the first (in our market) of combining a land-based DSL IP and satellite DBS.

I believe this is the Uverse Token posted about earlier in the STL Today article.

Here is the AT&T link, if anyone here is interested in seeing the ISP/DVR receiver. On the TV side, the HD receiver a dual-tuner dual-TV HD DVR with dual OTA tuners. Programming is Dish Network. ISP is AT&T DSL. The back panel of the HD receiver looks exactly like the back panel on a Dish 622.
http://www.sbc.com/gen/general?pid=7910&DCMP=att_homezone

And so, it begins.....

In a way, I'm glad AT&T DSL is not yet available in my area. I can just imagine all the bugs this thing will have for the first adopters, and I couldn't resist.
It's that JCS in me. ;)


Homezone and Uverse are two totally different services that att offers.

Uverse is where all the programing is provided by att itself through contact negotiations with the channels themselves. Meaning that Dish Network not involved. Att then becoming a true "cable" operator.

Homezone is a product where att can offer throughout its footprint regardless if Uverse is available or not. Where homezone just combines the internet with Dish Network.

Mark

I just got back from a friends house where I went to help him carry drywall to the basement. Not really sure why I volunteered for that. Anyway, I noticed he had satellite. In fact he one of the leads coming off the dish split to two receivers. I was always under the impression the line coming from the dish could not be split prior to going to a receiver. He says it all works ok except for not getting a few channels on one of the receivers attached to the split run. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Scott

I just got back from a friends house where I went to help him carry drywall to the basement. Not really sure why I volunteered for that. Anyway, I noticed he had satellite. In fact he one of the leads coming off the dish split to two receivers. I was always under the impression the line coming from the dish could not be split prior to going to a receiver. He says it all works ok except for not getting a few channels on one of the receivers attached to the split run. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Scott
Scott,
Speaking for DISH equipment, there are LNB's that have a switch built into them.
It's a common DISH application used, a dual LNB providing one feed into the home, then split to two compatible receivers.

Marky,
I wasn't sure if they were the same or not. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

My 622 is fed by a single line that gets split just before it reaches the box. Each line then feeds a separate sat tuner in the 622. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be getting the same thing on both receivers, if the receivers are the same.

Just wondering if anyone here got a Sony Playstation 3 today? If so, do you have any plans to test the next gen DVD waters with the purchase of a Blu-ray movie? I'd be interested to hear how it works and get some impressions.

It boggles the mind how technology companies can be their own worst enemy when it comes to educating the public about technical capabilities and features.

My HR10-250s both came with a HDMI cable (as well as S-Vid and Component), but the instructions are pretty clear about it. I wonder if anyone with a HR10-250 is not using HDMI/Component output?

My first Charter HD STB back in 2003 came with a very long component cable with the audio leads built in. The two I ordered a few months ago did not. They wanted I believe $12 set of cables!!! Another fee!!!

Yes the remotes came with some cheap batteries....

FWIW, I don't think it's out of bounds to charge for a remote. I assume this is done so that there's a transparent way to charge a customer for a replacement, and I assume this would result in to two monthly remote fees.

I think it would look better to include the first remote with the box rental and then add on the replacement fee if/when that becomes an issue. I think would avoid the appearance of gouging, whether it is or isn't.

My first Charter HD STB back in 2003 came with a very long component cable with the audio leads built in. The two I ordered a few months ago did not. They wanted I believe $12 set of cables!!! Another fee!!!...And I'll bet they are the cheapest and crappiest possible cables they can get. As for my own equipment, I actually prefer they not bother providing cables. I end up getting my own anyway. I always assume bundled cables are going to be very cheap.

FWIW, I don't think it's out of bounds to charge for a remote. I assume this is done so that there's a transparent way to charge a customer for a replacement, and I assume this would result in to two monthly remote fees.

I think it would look better to include the first remote with the box rental and then add on the replacement fee if/when that becomes an issue. I think would avoid the appearance of gouging, whether it is or isn't.I disagree. A fee for a remote is lame, especially for those of us who don't even use it (opting for a universal instead). Why not do it the way D* does it? The remote is included with the STB, no extra fee or charge. If you break it or lose it, you can order a new one for $30.

It would be like purchasing a DVD player, and then being told it won't really work until you purchase an additional remote. That's just not what you would expect. Why should STBs be any different?

Just wondering if anyone here got a Sony Playstation 3 today? If so, do you have any plans to test the next gen DVD waters with the purchase of a Blu-ray movie? I'd be interested to hear how it works and get some impressions.

No, I was not one of the crazy ones waiting in line for a PS3. And from what I have heard, most of the games are disappointing. It would be nice to own one just to be able to play BluRay, but again I have heard that the PS3 runs very hot.

I think it will be best to use a stand alone player for movies.

I can go either way regarding BluRay vs HD-DVD. For the price, I will probably choose HD-DVD. I am waiting for the second gen Toshiba HD-DVD players to come out (supposedly now mid-decemeber). If it gets good reviews, that's what I will probably get.

Doug, congrats on your ISF Forum. I also have enjoyed your many posts here over the years. Don't be a stranger.

No, I was not one of the crazy ones waiting in line for a PS3. And from what I have heard, most of the games are disappointing...There is one game coming that might tempt me to buy a PS3 (I have a 360). Formula One Championship Edition (F1 06) due out in Spring 07. This is the officially licensed by the FIA version. The game comes out every year in Europe, but has been missing from the US since Sony obtained the exclusive rights from the FIA. I wold love to play this with a good force-feedback wheel.

OTOH: paying $600 for a game console is not really on my radar. The $400 for the 360 was excessive enough.

Let me apologize in advance for my repeated pounding on the HDTV Viewer Survey, but I'm just trying to maximize the number of participants before the survey closes on December 1. Posting reminder notices here over the weekend seems like a good way to catch anyone who doesn't have any spare time during the working week.

So, for anyone who hasn't filled out the survey, here's the link where it can be found:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=770152748968

Earlier in the week, survey responses ticked over into triple digits, which isn't bad for a roll-your-own survey. Then again, I'm sure the guys at Nielsen and Gallup are sleeping very soundly. :)

While I'd be over the moon to get every single participant or lurker here at AVS to fill out the survey, I'm also really interested in trying to get as many possible responses from more casual HD viewers. So, if you know anyone else who isn't a complete HDTV freak like the majority of us here, I encourage you to forward the survey link to them.

I put together an eMail template for forwarding purposes in an earlier note last week, so that you can just copy/paste it to your friends:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8878312&&#post8878312

Finally, I want to thank everyone who has already participated and/or passed the survey along to other potential participants. I really do appreciate it.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate all the good wishes on the ISF Forum venture.

Thanks, guys...

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

In the past, we used to begin each month of the St. Louis discussion with an entirely new thread and usually that started with a cut/paste of basic resource information that is now buried back on the very first page of this discussion thread.

Because of its location, a lot of that general, introductory information about HDTV and OTA reception is now easily overlooked, especially with the discussion here stretching back more than 3 years and approaching 600 pages.

So, in order to this introductory information more accessible, I post an advisory/reminder note similar to this every couple of weeks. The idea is to make this general resource information more visible and easier to find for more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

Hopefully, you'll find this information of some use...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995679&&#post2995679)

Using An Antenna to Receive Local HD Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995718&&#post2995718)

Common Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8523674&&#post8523674)

Why Isn't KDNL-DT (ABC) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8072643&&#post8072643)

New! St. Louis Blues in HD Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8678636&&#post8678636)

New! St. Louis HDTV Viewer Survey (Open Until Dec 1) (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=770152748968)

Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

I found this on my Charter bill right after the "Taxes and Fees" section. I have their phone service so I assumed all the taxes were phone related.

REMINDER: Sales taxes apply to Telephone services and tangible property rental, including Digital Receiver(s), Addressable or Non Addressable Converter(s), Remotes, Digital Video Recorder(s), High Definition Receiver(s), Modem(s) & Paper Guides.

I am charged $3.81/month for sales tax so I guess I am paying a little more per month for my three HD receivers, one digital receiver, four remote controls, and my paper guides!!!!

...
I am charged $3.81/month for sales tax so I guess I am paying a little more per month for my three HD receivers, one digital receiver, four remote controls, and my paper guides!!!!Looking at my latest D* bill, I pay $0.30 a month in sales tax (on 1 leased receiver).

$.45/mo....probably for the 2 monthly DISH program guides.

I disagree. A fee for a remote is lame, especially for those of us who don't even use it (opting for a universal instead). Why not do it the way D* does it? The remote is included with the STB, no extra fee or charge. If you break it or lose it, you can order a new one for $30.

It would be like purchasing a DVD player, and then being told it won't really work until you purchase an additional remote. That's just not what you would expect. Why should STBs be any different?Dean, well like I said, I think it would be better to include the original remote charge in the rental fee for the receiver.

But I think you're overlooking the fact that cable STBs are rented, not sold. As a result, it doesn't make much sense to sell a replacement remote to the customer, particularly if the STB isn't likely to be around for several years. And that likely explains why Charter breaks out the fee for the remote to begin with.

But you make an interesting point about customers with universal remotes. I wonder if Charter would allow you to return the remote and have the fee knocked off your bill. In that case, the Charter approach to breaking out the remote would actually have some benefit for the customer that doesn't need it.

And you could take that a step further and use that fee as way to help cost-justify the purchase of a universal.