Hey folks. I'm interested in getting the new DirectTV HD DVR, but have reservations based on the issues people have been having - both with the box and installation (mostly from reading the dbstalk forum). I would need to have the AT9 or new slimline dish installed too.

Do any of you in the area now have the HR20? If so, is the box performing well and how did your installation go (if you had it installed by a DTV representative)? Thought I'd check with the local folks rather than rely on a larger national pool, especially where installation is concerned. At this time, I am inclined to wait a few months until DirectTV works out a few more bugs and technicians become more familiar with it.

Thanks!
Mike

The user experience is getting better. Now with OTA active I can actually switch
out my HD-TIVO from my main watching area.

The install was a nightmare. Missed appointments, not having equipment, not
knowing how to split the signal to 2 multiswitches, burning up one of my other
units.. I like self installs MUCH better.

I got it working last night to stream MP3s from my non-ViiV computer.

I believe it is getting much more stable. No reason not to switch. Of course, if
you just want the HD-Tivo.... $150 and it is yours.

After being a long-time lurker, I’d like to share my HD OTA experience in hopes that might be useful to others. Keep in mind I learned a lot over the last 9-10 months from surfing the web and through trial and error. Probably did a lot of time-wasting and dumb things.

I live in Maplewood, MO, a suburb of St. Louis, and got my first HR10-250 last spring subsequent to getting a Mitsubishi DLP. I had plugged my regular old roof antenna into the Mits and was thrilled to see the OTAs in living HD. The six stations I care about are 2.6 to 10.3 miles away and range from 169 degrees to 206 degrees from my house. The area I live in is an 80+ year old subdivision in a slightly hilly area. Of course, the stations I want are on the other side of a small hill with closely spaced houses and large, old trees.

(Subplot) I already had a dual lnb dish feeding three UltimateTV receivers. When the D* installer showed up, he took a look at the wiring distribution set up and told me it wouldn’t work, despite the fact that it had been working for about four+ years. Instead of replacing the old dish mounted on the chimney, he screwed the new dish into the roof and ran a new set of cables without telling me before hand. I was not amused.

He also took off my old antenna and installed a small HD antenna on the pole mount. After doing a very quick demo of the receiver, he left. Not long after, I found that two of the HD OTA channels, KSDK and KTVI, had a lot of pixilation through the HR10 but not directly through the Mits. I should have probably called D* at that point but, being an inveterate but slightly inept do-it-yourselfer and dreading the sight of Larry the Satellite Guy again, I went to the web instead.

From several forums, I learned about multipath HD OTA signals (multi-path?). I won’t really try to explain multipath here but it is bad juju and apparently is caused by some of the waves from an OTA signal bouncing off of things and arriving later at the receiver than their buddies. (Car pooling was not an option?)

First thing I did was climb up on the roof and started rotating the HD antenna. Why does it always have to be the roof? (I have since found that changes should be made in tiny increments. Even a 1 degree move makes a difference.) If you have not done this yet, it is an absolute b*tch. Not having any sort of meter to take with me, I had to have my wife sit in front of the TV, watch the HR10 signal strength meter and call my cell on the roof. Also keep in mind that she could only see the signal strength of one channel at a time and moving the antenna slightly may increase one signal and decrease another. It is a b*tch. I found that I could get all of the stations with at least a stable 70-75% signal, except KSDK which is almost directly South in the center of the line of stations. KSDK had a strong signal but varied wildly from over 90% to 0.

Then I found the Antenna Web site (http://www.antennaweb.org) and got some (but not enough) tech info. Their info really only applies 100% if you are in line of sight with all of your desired stations. And don’t talk to me about a rotator. After reading bazillions of web opinions about antennas and being torn between being frugal and in a hurry, I got a Terk antenna from BestBuy (I think it is the HDTVs, the square one.) No difference.

Next, I found a post that mentioned raising the antenna up higher, which I did by about 6 feet. Bingo! Everything was clear and no pixilation. Life was good.

Then the Fall came (the season, not me from the roof) and two things happened. 6.3a arrived and the leaves left. I have been getting the normal 6.3a quirks including momentary “Signal not found” messages when you first change to an OTA channel. Then Oprah started pixelating intensely on KSDK. We don’t really watch (record) a lot on KSDK (and the Oprah program is not in really in HD) but it’s the principle of the thing. I have seen opinions that 6.3a made the receiver less sensitive to the OTAs but God knows.

I’ll mention here that I hate to go up on the roof; I’m getting old and brittle. But, since Laura loves Oprah, back up I went with cell phone in hand. No amount of adjustment would stop the KSDK multi-path jumps. Then I put on the original D* HD antenna back on and scanned the sky. No joy. (By the way, Laura wasn’t home, so I put the portable phone in front of the tv speaker so that it picked up the signal meter audible tone and transmitted it to my cell phone. Of course, only an indication of the KSDK signal but better than nothing.)

So it was back to the web. I found a train of thought that suggested that simple indoor antennas might work, so I bought one from Radio Shack. No luck with KSDK multipath but I did find that the antenna worked fine with the other stations if the antenna faced away from them.

Now, being desperate, I did two things. First, I put myself on the D* H20 wait list (shudder). I also thought I would try the much maligned setup of combining both the D* and the Radio Shack antennas on the same line. (Yes, I know they are not the same size and are not exactly Pi R Squared centimeters apart.)

It works. The two lines go into a splitter backward then the one line out goes into a 3-way splitter for both HR10’s and the TV. Most of the stations are 85% or above. KSDK hovers around 70% but it locks in consistently with no pixilation. It works. Life is good. Oprah is in reruns.

Yes, I know this may be heresy to some technical wizards out there but it works. Comments are, of course, welcome but nothing short of real proof that the house will burn down will make me take it apart.

One point I would like to hear about from “experts”: Those commercial entities (D*, Mitsubishi, etc.) that tout this HD broadcast revolution and the folks in our wonderful gummit that has mandated it for all future viewing never told me I would have to go through this bullpoop. And I doubt that my experience is anywhere as bad as many others.

Is it the assumption that, if you can afford an HDTV, you can afford the local Hi-Fi-Fo-Fum to set it up for you? Did our friendly local cable company bribe some gummit official with the money that they were going to use to hire competent support people? Is the HR10-250 the only HD receiver that does this? Or is it just plain old all-American caveat emptor?

D* called last night and said that I had two weeks to schedule install of the H20. At this point, despite the OTA issues, I don’t want to give up my HR10’s. I’ve gotten accustomed to Tivo even though I liked UltimateTV better. As long as the OTAs work, I don’t need the satellite HD locals. And I really cringe at paying out bucks to get a leased unit that doesn’t (at least at this time) give me any more HD channels than I have now.

I hope this tale has been helpful. Take none of this as gospel of any sort. Your mileage may vary. Stay off of the roof. And I really appreciate all of you posters out there for giving me clues to the DiMultipath Code.

After being a long-time lurker, I’d like to share my HD OTA experience in hopes that might be useful to others. Keep in mind I learned a lot over the last 9-10 months from surfing the web and through trial and error. Probably did a lot of time-wasting and dumb things.

I live in Maplewood, MO, a suburb of St. Louis, and got my first HR10-250 last spring subsequent to getting a Mitsubishi DLP. I had plugged my regular old roof antenna into the Mits and was thrilled to see the OTAs in living HD. The six stations I care about are 2.6 to 10.3 miles away and range from 169 degrees to 206 degrees from my house. The area I live in is an 80+ year old subdivision in a slightly hilly area. Of course, the stations I want are on the other side of a small hill with closely spaced houses and large, old trees.

(Subplot) I already had a dual lnb dish feeding three UltimateTV receivers. When the D* installer showed up, he took a look at the wiring distribution set up and told me it wouldn’t work, despite the fact that it had been working for about four+ years. Instead of replacing the old dish mounted on the chimney, he screwed the new dish into the roof and ran a new set of cables without telling me before hand. I was not amused.

He also took off my old antenna and installed a small HD antenna on the pole mount. After doing a very quick demo of the receiver, he left. Not long after, I found that two of the HD OTA channels, KSDK and KTVI, had a lot of pixilation through the HR10 but not directly through the Mits. I should have probably called D* at that point but, being an inveterate but slightly inept do-it-yourselfer and dreading the sight of Larry the Satellite Guy again, I went to the web instead.

From several forums, I learned about multipath HD OTA signals (multi-path?). I won’t really try to explain multipath here but it is bad juju and apparently is caused by some of the waves from an OTA signal bouncing off of things and arriving later at the receiver than their buddies. (Car pooling was not an option?)

First thing I did was climb up on the roof and started rotating the HD antenna. Why does it always have to be the roof? (I have since found that changes should be made in tiny increments. Even a 1 degree move makes a difference.) If you have not done this yet, it is an absolute b*tch. Not having any sort of meter to take with me, I had to have my wife sit in front of the TV, watch the HR10 signal strength meter and call my cell on the roof. Also keep in mind that she could only see the signal strength of one channel at a time and moving the antenna slightly may increase one signal and decrease another. It is a b*tch. I found that I could get all of the stations with at least a stable 70-75% signal, except KSDK which is almost directly South in the center of the line of stations. KSDK had a strong signal but varied wildly from over 90% to 0.

Then I found the Antenna Web site (http://www.antennaweb.org) and got some (but not enough) tech info. Their info really only applies 100% if you are in line of sight with all of your desired stations. And don’t talk to me about a rotator. After reading bazillions of web opinions about antennas and being torn between being frugal and in a hurry, I got a Terk antenna from BestBuy (I think it is the HDTVs, the square one.) No difference.

Next, I found a post that mentioned raising the antenna up higher, which I did by about 6 feet. Bingo! Everything was clear and no pixilation. Life was good.

Then the Fall came (the season, not me from the roof) and two things happened. 6.3a arrived and the leaves left. I have been getting the normal 6.3a quirks including momentary “Signal not found” messages when you first change to an OTA channel. Then Oprah started pixelating intensely on KSDK. We don’t really watch (record) a lot on KSDK (and the Oprah program is not in really in HD) but it’s the principle of the thing. I have seen opinions that 6.3a made the receiver less sensitive to the OTAs but God knows.

I’ll mention here that I hate to go up on the roof; I’m getting old and brittle. But, since Laura loves Oprah, back up I went with cell phone in hand. No amount of adjustment would stop the KSDK multi-path jumps. Then I put on the original D* HD antenna back on and scanned the sky. No joy. (By the way, Laura wasn’t home, so I put the portable phone in front of the tv speaker so that it picked up the signal meter audible tone and transmitted it to my cell phone. Of course, only an indication of the KSDK signal but better than nothing.)

So it was back to the web. I found a train of thought that suggested that simple indoor antennas might work, so I bought one from Radio Shack. No luck with KSDK multipath but I did find that the antenna worked fine with the other stations if the antenna faced away from them.

Now, being desperate, I did two things. First, I put myself on the D* H20 wait list (shudder). I also thought I would try the much maligned setup of combining both the D* and the Radio Shack antennas on the same line. (Yes, I know they are not the same size and are not exactly Pi R Squared centimeters apart.)

It works. The two lines go into a splitter backward then the one line out goes into a 3-way splitter for both HR10’s and the TV. Most of the stations are 85% or above. KSDK hovers around 70% but it locks in consistently with no pixilation. It works. Life is good. Oprah is in reruns.

Yes, I know this may be heresy to some technical wizards out there but it works. Comments are, of course, welcome but nothing short of real proof that the house will burn down will make me take it apart.

One point I would like to hear about from “experts”: Those commercial entities (D*, Mitsubishi, etc.) that tout this HD broadcast revolution and the folks in our wonderful gummit that has mandated it for all future viewing never told me I would have to go through this bullpoop. And I doubt that my experience is anywhere as bad as many others.

Is it the assumption that, if you can afford an HDTV, you can afford the local Hi-Fi-Fo-Fum to set it up for you? Did our friendly local cable company bribe some gummit official with the money that they were going to use to hire competent support people? Is the HR10-250 the only HD receiver that does this? Or is it just plain old all-American caveat emptor?

D* called last night and said that I had two weeks to schedule install of the H20. At this point, despite the OTA issues, I don’t want to give up my HR10’s. I’ve gotten accustomed to Tivo even though I liked UltimateTV better. As long as the OTAs work, I don’t need the satellite HD locals. And I really cringe at paying out bucks to get a leased unit that doesn’t (at least at this time) give me any more HD channels than I have now.

I hope this tale has been helpful. Take none of this as gospel of any sort. Your mileage may vary. Stay off of the roof. And I really appreciate all of you posters out there for giving me clues to the DiMultipath Code.

Most people would not go through all this sort of nonsense. I am really amazed when I read stories like this. Was it worth it in time, stress, and money to go through all this yourself, when you simply could have picked up the phone and made the Satellite company fix the problem?? or called Charter and got a perfectly acceptable HD picture?

or called Charter and got a perfectly acceptable HD picture?


What if I want to watch Lost or last year's Super Bowl in HD?

After being a long-time lurker, I’d like to share my HD OTA experience in hopes that might be useful to others. Keep in mind I learned a lot over the last 9-10 months from surfing the web and through trial and error. Probably did a lot of time-wasting and dumb things.

I live in Maplewood, MO, a suburb of St. Louis, and got my first HR10-250 last spring subsequent to getting a Mitsubishi DLP. I had plugged my regular old roof antenna into the Mits and was thrilled to see the OTAs in living HD. The six stations I care about are 2.6 to 10.3 miles away and range from 169 degrees to 206 degrees from my house. The area I live in is an 80+ year old subdivision in a slightly hilly area. Of course, the stations I want are on the other side of a small hill with closely spaced houses and large, old trees.

(Subplot) I already had a dual lnb dish feeding three UltimateTV receivers. When the D* installer showed up, he took a look at the wiring distribution set up and told me it wouldn’t work, despite the fact that it had been working for about four+ years. Instead of replacing the old dish mounted on the chimney, he screwed the new dish into the roof and ran a new set of cables without telling me before hand. I was not amused.

He also took off my old antenna and installed a small HD antenna on the pole mount. After doing a very quick demo of the receiver, he left. Not long after, I found that two of the HD OTA channels, KSDK and KTVI, had a lot of pixilation through the HR10 but not directly through the Mits. I should have probably called D* at that point but, being an inveterate but slightly inept do-it-yourselfer and dreading the sight of Larry the Satellite Guy again, I went to the web instead.

From several forums, I learned about multipath HD OTA signals (multi-path?). I won’t really try to explain multipath here but it is bad juju and apparently is caused by some of the waves from an OTA signal bouncing off of things and arriving later at the receiver than their buddies. (Car pooling was not an option?)

First thing I did was climb up on the roof and started rotating the HD antenna. Why does it always have to be the roof? (I have since found that changes should be made in tiny increments. Even a 1 degree move makes a difference.) If you have not done this yet, it is an absolute b*tch. Not having any sort of meter to take with me, I had to have my wife sit in front of the TV, watch the HR10 signal strength meter and call my cell on the roof. Also keep in mind that she could only see the signal strength of one channel at a time and moving the antenna slightly may increase one signal and decrease another. It is a b*tch. I found that I could get all of the stations with at least a stable 70-75% signal, except KSDK which is almost directly South in the center of the line of stations. KSDK had a strong signal but varied wildly from over 90% to 0.

Then I found the Antenna Web site (http://www.antennaweb.org) and got some (but not enough) tech info. Their info really only applies 100% if you are in line of sight with all of your desired stations. And don’t talk to me about a rotator. After reading bazillions of web opinions about antennas and being torn between being frugal and in a hurry, I got a Terk antenna from BestBuy (I think it is the HDTVs, the square one.) No difference.

Next, I found a post that mentioned raising the antenna up higher, which I did by about 6 feet. Bingo! Everything was clear and no pixilation. Life was good.

Then the Fall came (the season, not me from the roof) and two things happened. 6.3a arrived and the leaves left. I have been getting the normal 6.3a quirks including momentary “Signal not found” messages when you first change to an OTA channel. Then Oprah started pixelating intensely on KSDK. We don’t really watch (record) a lot on KSDK (and the Oprah program is not in really in HD) but it’s the principle of the thing. I have seen opinions that 6.3a made the receiver less sensitive to the OTAs but God knows.

I’ll mention here that I hate to go up on the roof; I’m getting old and brittle. But, since Laura loves Oprah, back up I went with cell phone in hand. No amount of adjustment would stop the KSDK multi-path jumps. Then I put on the original D* HD antenna back on and scanned the sky. No joy. (By the way, Laura wasn’t home, so I put the portable phone in front of the tv speaker so that it picked up the signal meter audible tone and transmitted it to my cell phone. Of course, only an indication of the KSDK signal but better than nothing.)

So it was back to the web. I found a train of thought that suggested that simple indoor antennas might work, so I bought one from Radio Shack. No luck with KSDK multipath but I did find that the antenna worked fine with the other stations if the antenna faced away from them.

Now, being desperate, I did two things. First, I put myself on the D* H20 wait list (shudder). I also thought I would try the much maligned setup of combining both the D* and the Radio Shack antennas on the same line. (Yes, I know they are not the same size and are not exactly Pi R Squared centimeters apart.)

It works. The two lines go into a splitter backward then the one line out goes into a 3-way splitter for both HR10’s and the TV. Most of the stations are 85% or above. KSDK hovers around 70% but it locks in consistently with no pixilation. It works. Life is good. Oprah is in reruns.

Yes, I know this may be heresy to some technical wizards out there but it works. Comments are, of course, welcome but nothing short of real proof that the house will burn down will make me take it apart.

One point I would like to hear about from “experts”: Those commercial entities (D*, Mitsubishi, etc.) that tout this HD broadcast revolution and the folks in our wonderful gummit that has mandated it for all future viewing never told me I would have to go through this bullpoop. And I doubt that my experience is anywhere as bad as many others.

Is it the assumption that, if you can afford an HDTV, you can afford the local Hi-Fi-Fo-Fum to set it up for you? Did our friendly local cable company bribe some gummit official with the money that they were going to use to hire competent support people? Is the HR10-250 the only HD receiver that does this? Or is it just plain old all-American caveat emptor?

D* called last night and said that I had two weeks to schedule install of the H20. At this point, despite the OTA issues, I don’t want to give up my HR10’s. I’ve gotten accustomed to Tivo even though I liked UltimateTV better. As long as the OTAs work, I don’t need the satellite HD locals. And I really cringe at paying out bucks to get a leased unit that doesn’t (at least at this time) give me any more HD channels than I have now.

I hope this tale has been helpful. Take none of this as gospel of any sort. Your mileage may vary. Stay off of the roof. And I really appreciate all of you posters out there for giving me clues to the DiMultipath Code.

Don't shoot me, but I would have just used the old antenna. What most of us use are "old" style antennas and NOT the "HDTV" antennas that are sold. Obviously it's too late. Most of the time, you have to assume the installers are idiots(D*, E* or Charter). If he'd have left your original antenna, you'd probably have had no problems.

On the bright side, you've learned a lot. There are a lot of people that like everything "plug n play". When something goes wrong, they have to pay someone to fix it. I think it's better to know your stuff and understand it enough to fix problems yourself, instead of waiting for a tech to come out in 3 weeks between 8 and 5.

welcome.
dug

I believe that to be the same problem here. We are in phase 3. Funny thing is that the people that connect to my back yard can get service, but I can't. I have argued with Charter for 4 weeks now to get them to come out. I could run the cable myself and have told them that. I keep the battle going because it is 30-40 dollars cheaper a month for the plan that I got out of them. They were really struggling for customers and offered me a plan I could not refuse. I believe I am about all out of steam. I am about to throw in the towel and go with Century-Tel/DSL/Dish. My problem with Century-Tel for DSL is when I spoke with them the other day, the lady told me, and I quote "We believe our 1.5MB DSL to be faster than 5MB cable broadband". So what am I getting into with these CSRs.....

Funny, Charter told me I couldn't get service 3 years ago when all 3 neighbors surrounding me had it, and the coax was running through my yard to the one guys house.

Scott

Hey folks. I'm interested in getting the new DirectTV HD DVR, but have reservations based on the issues people have been having - both with the box and installation (mostly from reading the dbstalk forum). I would need to have the AT9 or new slimline dish installed too.

Do any of you in the area now have the HR20? If so, is the box performing well and how did your installation go (if you had it installed by a DTV representative)? Thought I'd check with the local folks rather than rely on a larger national pool, especially where installation is concerned. At this time, I am inclined to wait a few months until DirectTV works out a few more bugs and technicians become more familiar with it.

Thanks!
Mike

Nuzy,

I got the Slimline dish upgrade and the HR20 on Dec. 9. The installation experience was very good. In fact the install was originally scheduled for Dec. 16 and the installer called to ask if he could move it up a week! I was glad he called, since I was able to verify that I only wanted the Slimline dish. He had one of those as well as some AT9's, so be sure to ask. He arrived at 8:30am and almost cancelled when he saw how much ice was on the roof, but he managed to chip the ice away enough to replace the old one. He spent about 4 hours getting everything done, including a feed to a new room. I also got the 6X8 switch since I now have 6 feeds to the various rooms.

I have had the HR10 HD-Tivo for over two years, and I was worried about the features of the HR20 when compared to it. I have now gotten used to many of the differences and actually prefer some of the new features. Reading the HR20 threads on dbstalk is essential! Thanks to an announcement there, I was able to force down the 0x10b firmware upgrade last week during the limited window of availability. This turned on the OTA feature and added the home network media sharing. The media sharing allows you to display pictures and play music from your networked PC through the HR20 to your TV. This is a beta release feature for now.

The major complaint is the lack of dual live buffers that the Tivo has. This can be emulated by recording two shows at the same time, but not as slick as the Tivo. The guide and and recording setup screens are much quicker than the Tivo.

I have been a D* customer for over 10 years, so I expected customer retention to make me a good deal before taking the plunge. I was able to get the HR20 and dish upgrade for $99, and get $100 in credits over the next 6 months to offset that. I also got a free H20 receiver for a new TV in the bedroom. This took several calls to finally get someone to those terms. I still have the HD Tivo activated, so I expect to get it replaced for free down the road when MPEG2 goes away, but that is a battle for another day. The HR20 was considered an upgrade from my old Zenith DTV1080 which I deactivated.

Bottom line is the most of the bugs have been fixed, but there are still a few to be worked out. The HD Tivo was driving me crazy with the Fox audio dropouts, so it isn't without bugs either!

IMO, if you get poor OTA, the HR20 is no doubt the way to go. Charter doesn't have ABC, and Dish PVR's could be victim to the Tivo suit at any time.

I get decent OTA so this wasn't critical, but I wanted to be ready when all those new HD channels become available in 2007!

Mike

What if I want to watch Lost or last year's Super Bowl in HD?

Or every NFL game every week on the networks and NFL Network? Believe me, his efforts are worth it to get D* and locals OTA. Good job youngmm. :)

Scott

Luckily I came home for lunch today and noticed a strong burning odor. I saw the Moxibox display wasn't working and traced the odor to the box. I've unplugged it.
Is anyone aware there are similar problems with the box? Have there been any fires?

Luckily I came home for lunch today and noticed a strong burning odor. I saw the Moxibox display wasn't working and traced the odor to the box. I've unplugged it.
Is anyone aware there are similar problems with the box? Have there been any fires?


You might read the Moxi thread ... someone on there just had his die with a similar odor. I haven't heard of any actual fires though.

Mine died a couple weeks ago, but no burning odor or overheating. The new one is much quieter.

Call them and have them come out to swap you for a new one.

EDIT: nm, i see you were over there already.

Or every NFL game every week on the networks and NFL Network? Believe me, his efforts are worth it to get D* and locals OTA. Good job youngmm. :)

Scott


I can't believe how much pull football has for some people. I can't imagine watching EVERY game EVERY week, geez. hehe. You people must be able to afford gardeners and lawn mowers, lol.

:D

Back a year ago, I had a Moxi installed. At that time, the installer told me to never close the doors or it might burn it. I closed them and never had a problem. I will state that it was very hot in there though. I took all the other components out of that area and put them in a separate cabinet.

Most people would not go through all this sort of nonsense. I am really amazed when I read stories like this. Was it worth it in time, stress, and money to go through all this yourself, when you simply could have picked up the phone and made the Satellite company fix the problem?? or called Charter and got a perfectly acceptable HD picture?


Installer - certainly not Larry. He couldn't figure out what I already had.

Charter - No way in H*.

Unless there's some particular reason you can't, you might also look at Dish Network. Their Dish 622 HD DVR is a really good triple tuner HD box.
If it weren't for Sunday Ticket, I would go with Dish. I've been a Bears fan since before I could walk, so I just can't give that up. Don't get me wrong, I love St. Louis, but I was born and raised in Chicago so that's where all my sports roots remain.

Nuzy,

I got the Slimline dish upgrade and the HR20 on Dec. 9. The installation experience was very good. In fact the install was originally scheduled for Dec. 16 and the installer called to ask if he could move it up a week! I was glad he called, since I was able to verify that I only wanted the Slimline dish. He had one of those as well as some AT9's, so be sure to ask. He arrived at 8:30am and almost cancelled when he saw how much ice was on the roof, but he managed to chip the ice away enough to replace the old one. He spent about 4 hours getting everything done, including a feed to a new room. I also got the 6X8 switch since I now have 6 feeds to the various rooms.

I have had the HR10 HD-Tivo for over two years, and I was worried about the features of the HR20 when compared to it. I have now gotten used to many of the differences and actually prefer some of the new features. Reading the HR20 threads on dbstalk is essential! Thanks to an announcement there, I was able to force down the 0x10b firmware upgrade last week during the limited window of availability. This turned on the OTA feature and added the home network media sharing. The media sharing allows you to display pictures and play music from your networked PC through the HR20 to your TV. This is a beta release feature for now.

The major complaint is the lack of dual live buffers that the Tivo has. This can be emulated by recording two shows at the same time, but not as slick as the Tivo. The guide and and recording setup screens are much quicker than the Tivo.

I have been a D* customer for over 10 years, so I expected customer retention to make me a good deal before taking the plunge. I was able to get the HR20 and dish upgrade for $99, and get $100 in credits over the next 6 months to offset that. I also got a free H20 receiver for a new TV in the bedroom. This took several calls to finally get someone to those terms. I still have the HD Tivo activated, so I expect to get it replaced for free down the road when MPEG2 goes away, but that is a battle for another day. The HR20 was considered an upgrade from my old Zenith DTV1080 which I deactivated.

Bottom line is the most of the bugs have been fixed, but there are still a few to be worked out. The HD Tivo was driving me crazy with the Fox audio dropouts, so it isn't without bugs either!

IMO, if you get poor OTA, the HR20 is no doubt the way to go. Charter doesn't have ABC, and Dish PVR's could be victim to the Tivo suit at any time.

I get decent OTA so this wasn't critical, but I wanted to be ready when all those new HD channels become available in 2007!

Mike
MSloss,

Thank you and everyone else for the feedback. That's enough to convince me that it is safe enough to give it a shot after the new year - assuming they are available in the area and I can negotiate a decent price.

Thanks again!
Mike

Anyone out there had multipath problems with an HR20-250 and had a D* installer come out and fix it?

Anyone out there had multipath problems with an HR10-250 and had a D* installer come out and fix it?
Sorry

Or every NFL game every week on the networks and NFL Network? Believe me, his efforts are worth it to get D* and locals OTA. Good job youngmm. :)

Scott

If you watch that much football you need to find something else to do with your time!

Installer - certainly not Larry. He couldn't figure out what I already had.

Charter - No way in H*.

Hope you don't have problems in another 6 months. In my opinion, life is to short to waste your time, and stress out over something that the company providing ought to fix.

Got a flyer in the mail today. AT&T is now offering free TV service (via Satellite) for 1 year ($400 value according to them) if I switch my phone, internet to them. $65 bucks a month for phone, internet, and TV (for 1 year). ...........I can't see how they can be making any money on it.

I can't believe how much pull football has for some people. I can't imagine watching EVERY game EVERY week, geez. hehe. You people must be able to afford gardeners and lawn mowers, lol.

:D

Gotta love the diversity in this world. I live for football and golf. I could care less really about all other sports.

Obviously I can't watch EVERY game but at least I can watch the game I want and not what happens to be on the local network that week. Go Chargers!

As far as being able to afford gardeners goes, my entire landscaping is grass. I have grass, and I mow my own lawn because it's relaxing and I like the little beer holder on the riding mower. :)

Look, we all have a certain amount of disposable income and we must decide how best to use it. Personally, I have no kids, so that leaves me some money for me and my Wife. I don't go out much, so paying for satellite, Netflix, and Sunday Ticket is a great value for me. Some are different. I work with a guy who doesn't even own a TV and spends countless hours and thousands of dollars a year on motorcycling. More power to him, but I don't get it. Someone may be willing to pay for a night out to a Blues game. :confused: Again, I don't get it, but if someone wants to spend more in one night to take his family to one Blues game than I spend in a season for the NFL, more power to him. Anyway, now even I don't know where I'm going with this, so I'll stop. Bottom line, TV is a great value for me, and I enjoy it everyday.

Scott

If you watch that much football you need to find something else to do with your time!

It's not about watching sixteen 3hr games each week. It's about being able to see the handful of games each Sunday that I want to watch, not what my local affliates force-feed me. I like to flip around between games and watch the close contests, or ones that might make a difference in my neighborhood pick'em pool and fantasy football league. I don't think anyone sits down and watches each and every game, but last Sunday was nice to be able to watch and flip between the close Bucs vs Bears game, the nailbiter in Nashville that Jacksonville choked away, Washington's upset in New Orleans, the Bronco's and Cardinal's shootout, and the Eagles comeback over the Giants.

Without Sunday Ticket, I would have only been able to see most of that action via replays on Sports Center or the wrapup shows, but instead I was able to watch it live as it unfolded, rapidly changing between my two HD Tivo tuners. :D

FCC Says Cable Prices Up, Wired Biz Cries Foul

This is another reason to question the basic competency of the federal goverment bureaucracy -- this report is based on cable price data from January-December 2004!

The FCC abacus apparently has been clicking away non-stop now for 23 months... :rolleyes:

And note the cable industry's defense by quoting "cost per hour." WTF!?!?

The following story is from today SkyREPORT newsletter.
_____________________________________________

The Federal Communications Commission released a much-anticipated report on cable prices Wednesday, a move that had the wired incumbent crying foul about the agency's perceived targeting of the industry.

The FCC report found that the average monthly rate for cable - including basic and expanded basic cable programming services - increased by 5.2 percent during a 12-month period ending Jan. 1, 2005, from $40.91 to $43.04. Moreover, the commission said cable prices jumped by 93 percent since the period immediately prior to congressional enactment of the 1996 Telecommunications Act.

The FCC also concluded in its report that satellite TV competition does not appear to constrain cable prices. The report said average prices were the same or slightly higher in communities where small dish services were the basis for relieving a cable operator from rate regulation when compared to non-competitive communities, the commission said.

In anticipation of the report, the National Cable and Telecommunications Association released talking points it said shows the real story behind the numbers. Cable's bundle of video, high-speed internet and phone service costs 23 percent less than it did 10 years ago, NCTA said, and for consumers taking a bundle of services, video prices have actually declined.

Also, the viewing of cable programming is way up, and the real cost per hour is down, NCTA said, pointing out that nearly 32 million consumers subscribe to a pay-TV provider other than cable.

In addition, the NCTA contends that the FCC's price survey is out of date and doesn't reflect the current state of competition or the rapidly changing marketplace.

During its open meeting Wednesday, the FCC also approved local video franchise reform. Reaction to that move is available in today's Morning BRIDGE: http://www.thebridgemediagroup.com.
_____________________________________________

It's not about watching sixteen 3hr games each week. It's about being able to see the handful of games each Sunday that I want to watch, not what my local affliates force-feed me. I like to flip around between games and watch the close contests, or ones that might make a difference in my neighborhood pick'em pool and fantasy football league. I don't think anyone sits down and watches each and every game, but last Sunday was nice to be able to watch and flip between the close Bucs vs Bears game, the nailbiter in Nashville that Jacksonville choked away, Washington's upset in New Orleans, the Bronco's and Cardinal's shootout, and the Eagles comeback over the Giants.

Without Sunday Ticket, I would have only been able to see most of that action via replays on Sports Center or the wrapup shows, but instead I was able to watch it live as it unfolded, rapidly changing between my two HD Tivo tuners. :D

Wouldn't Sports Center be more time efficient?

I found the following in the FishStripes blog for Florida Marlins fans. The topic of discussion is how to increase attendance at Marlins games.

While I agree with the basic point about Dan and Al (who else could they be referring to?), I'm not so sure this explains why "Baseball Heaven" is an 81-game sellout... ;)
_____________________________________________

If you really want to change that, fire Rich and Tommy and hire the Cardinals announcers. The Marlins fans will quit watching the games on television and head out to the ballpark in droves, just so they don't have to listen to that crap.
_____________________________________________

ABC Cancels "Daybreak" Prior to 13-Episode Run

The biggest problem with network television programming is the people who run it have a terminal case of ADD and no respect for viewers -- just raw numbers. Why develop a limited 13-episode program if you aren't going to see it through?

"Daybreak" wasn't the best show I've ever seen my any stretch of the imagination, but it was interesting and I wanted to find out how it was going to play out.

Morons...
______________________________________________________

ABC plans to pull the show Daybreak from the air effective immediately. The series stars Taye Diggs as Detective Brett Hopper, a man framed for murder who must live the same day over and over.

The show was slotted as a mid-season replacement during Lost's hiatus but it has struggled, recently reaching a new season low on Wednesday. The network plans on programming a comedy block of repeats of According to Jim and George Lopez to replace the show.
______________________________________________________

[B][SIZE=3]The biggest problem with network television programming is the people who run it have a terminal case of ADD and no respect for viewers --


Everyone wants 30 channels of Football to watch -- I say most viewers have ADD as well

:D

Everyone wants 30 channels of Football to watch -- I say most viewers have ADD as well

:D

I think that would be ASD (attention surplus disorder) how else could you keep track of all that :p

Everyone wants 30 channels of Football to watch -- I say most viewers have ADD as well

:D

Don't know waht ADD is, but if it gives me 30 channels of football I want it. :D

Scott

I found the following in the FishStripes blog for Florida Marlins fans. The topic of discussion is how to increase attendance at Marlins games.

While I agree with the basic point about Dan and Al (who else could they be referring to?), I'm not so sure this explains why "Baseball Heaven" is an 81-game sellout... ;)
_____________________________________________

If you really want to change that, fire Rich and Tommy and hire the Cardinals announcers. The Marlins fans will quit watching the games on television and head out to the ballpark in droves, just so they don't have to listen to that crap.
_____________________________________________
Apparently, the FishStripes have never heard Wayne and Wicky. It could always be worse.

Besides, what's wrong with sitting on Grandpa's knee, listening to stories of Baseball Yore, and being reminded how little players were paid back then?

We ARE getting MORE HD games this year :D

Now that I've learned, I don't have to waste 650 hours watching all 162 games...I can efficiently just watch the highlights of the entire season, in under an hour's time, giving me much more time to annoy the rest of you :D

I did a search on QAM, but it didn't really answer my questions.

I think I get the whole "unencrypted" thing. But what if you already suscribe to the Digital and HD packages? Does that "unencrypt" it so that a TV with a QAM tuner can then pick up what you've paid for? Or does this still need to be decrypted by a Charter box.

Basically I'm about ready to purchase a TV to mount on the bedroom wall over a closet, and I'd rather not have to find something to do with a cable box if I can help it.

Thanks for the info.

I did a search on QAM, but it didn't really answer my questions.

I think I get the whole "unencrypted" thing. But what if you already suscribe to the Digital and HD packages? Does that "unencrypt" it so that a TV with a QAM tuner can then pick up what you've paid for? Or does this still need to be decrypted by a Charter box.

Basically I'm about ready to purchase a TV to mount on the bedroom wall over a closet, and I'd rather not have to find something to do with a cable box if I can help it.

Thanks for the info.


From personal experience: You're gonna need a box or a CableCard if you want to wach anything more than basic cable + shopping channels + religious channels + your neighbors pay-per view. That's all you can pick up with a QAM tuner. Everything else is encrypted, requiring a box or CableCard. The box/card is what does the unencrypting (decrypting?), not the subscription. For a clean, simple install, find a tv with a Cablecard slot. However, you'll lose pay-per-view, the interactive guide, TV-on-Demand, etc. on that TV if you go that route. If any of those features are important to you, you need a box there.

Hope that helps, Merry Christmas!

-Matt

off-topic posts removed

off-topic posts removed

Isn't your post off topic? :D

Yeah, but if I delete myself, I'll go blind. Or something like that.

I did a search on QAM, but it didn't really answer my questions.

I think I get the whole "unencrypted" thing. But what if you already suscribe to the Digital and HD packages? Does that "unencrypt" it so that a TV with a QAM tuner can then pick up what you've paid for? Or does this still need to be decrypted by a Charter box.

Basically I'm about ready to purchase a TV to mount on the bedroom wall over a closet, and I'd rather not have to find something to do with a cable box if I can help it.

Thanks for the info.


FWIW I'm doing the same thing and will just the QAM tuner as I don't watch THAT much tv in bed :) Plus, then Charter doesn't know about it and they won't charge you for a second set, which will happen if you get a cable card etc.

Well, Charter did it again......You won't be able to see the Ram's game locally this weekend
unless you have DirecTV's NFL Sunday Ticket w/Superfan.

The game didn't sell out, so once again we DirecTV subscribers get the choice of watching it, if
we want.

The rest of you will have to catch the "highlights" on SportsCenter.

Well, Charter did it again......You won't be able to see the Ram's game locally this weekend
unless you have DirecTV's NFL Sunday Ticket w/Superfan.

The game didn't sell out, so once again we DirecTV subscribers get the choice of watching it, if
we want.

The rest of you will have to catch the "highlights" on SportsCenter.

How is that Charters fault? If fans dont want to support a crappy team in a crappy season, its their fault :rolleyes:

Maybe too many ppl are sitting on couches watching games on TV now instead of going outside :p

I'm just having fun with Charter :D

I think its funny they call that "Superfan" cause any Super Fan would GO to games!

The user experience is getting better. Now with OTA active I can actually switch
out my HD-TIVO from my main watching area.

The install was a nightmare. Missed appointments, not having equipment, not
knowing how to split the signal to 2 multiswitches, burning up one of my other
units.. I like self installs MUCH better.

I got it working last night to stream MP3s from my non-ViiV computer.

I believe it is getting much more stable. No reason not to switch. Of course, if
you just want the HD-Tivo.... $150 and it is yours.

Sent you a PM about Tivo.

Scott

Right back at you........

I think its funny they call that "Superfan" cause any Super Fan would GO to games!

Not necessarily. I don't live in Chicago so I have to follow them this way.

Have you seen the SUPER FANs outside the stadium with their HDTV set up with
DirecTV...Those people are way into it...

Of course, I've done the same thing at a NASCAR event :D

I think its funny they call that "Superfan" cause any Super Fan would GO to games!

I hate to fly, so I'm not going to any San Diego game anytime soon. I am a Superfan of the Superchargers though. :)

Scott

Funny thing happened to me today. I called charter AGAIN to see WTF is going on with my area. This time I got retention. I told him my 4 week story. He dug and dug and dug, but could not find anything. He ended up putting in his on installation ticket for me and that even got lost. At the end of a 30 minute conversation the RETENTION DEPARTMENT to me to go to another company to get TV/internet/phone because their system was a piece of crap and he could not figure out where the paperwork was going. Oh well, off to find a massive antenna to put on top of my house. Neighbors and wife will love that.....

Speaking of antenna's.....anyone in the Wentzville area using a UHF/VHF antenna for HD and analog locals? I have looked and looked at skywalker and have obviously seen several to choose from. They are HUGE. I am guessing one that would fit in my attic would not get reception for the non-HD TVs.

Well, Charter did it again......You won't be able to see the Ram's game locally this weekend
unless you have DirecTV's NFL Sunday Ticket w/Superfan.

The game didn't sell out, so once again we DirecTV subscribers get the choice of watching it, if
we want.

The rest of you will have to catch the "highlights" on SportsCenter.

Actually it's the Rams and our local FOX station that's screwing us. They could have bought the seats and given the tickets to service men and kids.

And I don't think the game will be seen locally on Sunday Ticket. Local blackout rules apply. Bummer. I wonder which game we will get...

DISH increasing prices, effective 2/1/07. It appears, in the process, they will be adding SD channels to packages also. No word on which channels.

Subs using the current Metal HD packages will see no increase in Bronze, +3.00/mo increase in Silver and Gold, and +10.00/mo in Platinum.

The Metal packages will be discon'd, and will now be called ATxxx + HD.

More info is available on DBS.

Actually it's the Rams and our local FOX station that's screwing us. They could have bought the seats and given the tickets to service men and kids.

And I don't think the game will be seen locally on Sunday Ticket. Local blackout rules apply. Bummer. I wonder which game we will get...

I have been getting the game on both ST and OTA lately. Not sure why because last year they always blacked out on ST whatever was being shown locally. I'm pretty sure I'll get the Rams game.

Don't forget to watch what will likely be Brett Favre's last game at Lambeau Field tonight. Anyone with Charter can come over to my house. :)

Scott

Superfan won't help you if you are within 75 miles of the stadium as the local blackout rules apply to Sunday Ticket as well.
Blackout Rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_policies)

However, there is still hope for the sell out as the league can extend the deadline to 48 hours before the game.

Maybe Charter can buy them and give them to it's happy customers :D

Token

And I don't think the game will be seen locally on Sunday Ticket. Local blackout rules apply.Unless they slip up, this is correct. Even the GameMix channel with the Rams game on it will be blacked out.

I just called Dish and they said they could do a HD install on 12/24. What are the odds of that happening?

I just called Dish and they said they could do a HD install on 12/24. What are the odds of that happening?
I've heard, going directly through DISH (not ATT), their lead time is currently only 2-4 days.

Actually it's the Rams and our local FOX station that's screwing us. They could have bought the seats and given the tickets to service men and kids.
...

Unfortunately, Fox 2, Ed Jones and other companies have done this repeatedly this year. Usually it is about 500 tickets that they buy and give to employees/charities/UE linemen, but this time there were about 3000 tickets. I think it's asking a bit much for these companies to put up 10s of thousands of dollars repeatedly just to get the home team on TV. This wouldn't be a problem if the Rams weren't crap, their tickets would be in demand. I think Fox2 and other large local companies have done their part. The fault lies wholly with the Rams for not putting a good product on the field. The Blues are shown because the NHL doesn't have a good NATIONAL deal, so even though the Blues suck, they are still on TV.

I don't actually watch football or Fox2 for that matter, but they shouldn't get the bad mojo, only the Rams should. Also, I do understand the frustration, I just think it may be mis-aimed.

Dug

Unfortunately, Fox 2, Ed Jones and other companies have done this repeatedly this year. Usually it is about 500 tickets that they buy and give to employees/charities/UE linemen, but this time there were about 3000 tickets. I think it's asking a bit much for these companies to put up 10s of thousands of dollars repeatedly just to get the home team on TV. This wouldn't be a problem if the Rams weren't crap, their tickets would be in demand. I think Fox2 and other large local companies have done their part. The fault lies wholly with the Rams for not putting a good product on the field. The Blues are shown because the NHL doesn't have a good NATIONAL deal, so even though the Blues suck, they are still on TV.

I don't actually watch football or Fox2 for that matter, but they shouldn't get the bad mojo, only the Rams should. Also, I do understand the frustration, I just think it may be mis-aimed.

Dug
Could not agree more. If Joe Buck Sr, Harry Caray, or Vin Scully were calling the Cards games, they would still sell-out 81 dates.

Put a good product out there, market it, and it sells.

I still have hope. Even with the blackout rules, I have been getting the local games on Sunday Ticket HD and I'm not more than 75 miles from the game. We'll see i guess.

Scott

I would have to go through Century-tel, which says they will not honor the promotions that DISH direct is offering. What king of crapola is that?

Well, Charter did it again......You won't be able to see the Ram's game locally this weekend
unless you have DirecTV's NFL Sunday Ticket w/Superfan.

The game didn't sell out, so once again we DirecTV subscribers get the choice of watching it, if
we want.

The rest of you will have to catch the "highlights" on SportsCenter.

Who watches the RAMS games? I woudln't bother to even watch the highlights of it on SportsCenter.

Superfan won't help you if you are within 75 miles of the stadium as the local blackout rules apply to Sunday Ticket as well.
Blackout Rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_policies)

However, there is still hope for the sell out as the league can extend the deadline to 48 hours before the game.

Maybe Charter can buy them and give them to it's happy customers :D

Token

but, but....what will the Superfans do????

I just called Dish and they said they could do a HD install on 12/24. What are the odds of that happening?

zilch, unless they are extremely desparate for customers.

All season long, the SD channel has been blacked out if shown locally, but the HD channel has always come through. Minor slip-up, but I doubt anyone's ever complained about it :) .

All season long, the SD channel has been blacked out if shown locally, but the HD channel has always come through. Minor slip-up, but I doubt anyone's ever complained about it :) .

So, I'm not the only one who will likely get the Rams game this weekend. :)

Scott

I would have to go through Century-tel, which says they will not honor the promotions that DISH direct is offering. What king of crapola is that?
Because of bundling?

So, I'm not the only one who will likely get the Rams game this weekend. :)

Scott

If I knew it wouldn't piss off my wife I might try to get myself invited over. Instead I'll be scoreboard watching and using the internet to track it. Somehow I doubt this will be one of the NFL network rebroadcasts.

This is one of the few times I wish I had Dtv instead of Dish.

Dave

Superfan won't help you if you are within 75 miles of the stadium as the local blackout rules apply to Sunday Ticket as well.
Blackout Rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Blackout_policies)

However, there is still hope for the sell out as the league can extend the deadline to 48 hours before the game.

Maybe Charter can buy them and give them to it's happy customers :D

Token

The blackout rules where changed last year for the HD games. Last year, yes you
were blacked out, this year not.

Edit: Okay, maybe not changed, but I have not seen them enforced on the HD side.

Yeah, but if I delete myself, I'll go blind. Or something like that.

I thought deleting yourself was a sin. Wait, that's delighting yourself. I'm pretty sure that makes you go blind.

If I knew it wouldn't piss off my wife I might try to get myself invited over. Instead I'll be scoreboard watching and using the internet to track it. Somehow I doubt this will be one of the NFL network rebroadcasts.

This is one of the few times I wish I had Dtv instead of Dish.

Dave

You can't piss her off if you invite her along. :)

Anyone know why the NFL game tonight on NFL Network was not in Dolby Digital 5.1? :(

Scott

Charter phone installed today. Had an 8 to 12 window. I had a doctors appointment at 8:00 and the wife had one at 9:50. Installer showed up about 10:00 and was finished at 11. She knew her business. I did not need another run to the house. Everything was between +3 and +7 db.

Walt

Because of bundling?


She said they do their own promotions and they did not honor Dish's promotions. So, I said ok, what is your promotion. As expected....nothing. So I said good day. Later on I called back and got someone with a brain. They do honor the promotions, and they also give an additional $5 off for having a bundle. I will be calling this morning.

Anyone have problems with 4-1 last night? Around 9:30 it started flipping betweed HD/analog for commercials and my TV freaked and shut down. It came back up and 4-1 was gone. I did a rescan and still gone. Probably a TV thing and I will post a question in the Mitsu XX725 forum to see if it is a known problem with this TV.

FSN Ads to Tell Viewers WHERE to Find Its HD Broadcasts

This story from TV Week's High Definition Newsletter focuses on how Fox Sports Net is frustrated with the random location of its HD broadcasts on cable and satellite carriers and is starting an ad campaign to guide viewers.

Apart from the fact that FSN is doubling its HD event coverage in the coming year, the most interesting info here is that FSN claims its cost of producing an HD broadcast is only 20% more expensive than an SD production, but that cable/satellite carriage can be up to 5 times as expensive as SD.
________________________________________________________

Fox Sports Net's upcoming marketing campaign won't try to convince viewers to subscribe, or even to watch its games. It will merely tell viewers where they can find the channel.

Executives at the group of Fox-owned regional sports networks are frustrated by cable and satellite operators who, in the midst of consolidation and bandwidth crunching, keep moving around their HD programming and airing games on obscure channel positions.

A recent Wall Street Journal story chronicled how Time Warner and Comcast's purchase of Adelphia has resulted in many former Adelphia viewers feeling confused about where to find HD games. Also, some FSN regions do not have their own dedicated HD channels, but still frequently offer games in HD, resulting in operators sticking the signals onto inconsistent channel spaces.

One site, www.hdsportsguide.com, was created by a frustrated fan solely to track HD sports scheduling.

"We're receiving viewer and journalist calls from people who have FSN but are missing the games," FSN spokesperson Jennifer Johnson said.

Last month, FSN announced plans to double its HD coverage for the 2006-2007 season, which is an expensive proposition. Producing a game in HD costs only 20 percent more than standard definition, but HD transmission rates can run as much as 500 percent higher. The result is that games can cost as much as double to produce in HD vs. standard definition, which is money wasted if viewers can't find the games.
________________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here. (http://tvweek.com/page.cms?pageId=451)

DISH increasing prices, effective 2/1/07. It appears, in the process, they will be adding SD channels to packages also. No word on which channels.

Subs using the current Metal HD packages will see no increase in Bronze, +3.00/mo increase in Silver and Gold, and +10.00/mo in Platinum.

The Metal packages will be discon'd, and will now be called ATxxx + HD.

More info is available on DBS.I read this morning at TV Predictions that DISH is changing its HD package price to an all-in $20 (excluding premium HD channels such as HBO).

How does this differ from the current price for both the basic and VOOM HD packages? I seem to recall that the basic was $12 and VOOM $5, which would add up to a $3 per month increase. Is that correct?

I found a buyer for my RX-V2400, so I replaced it with a Yamaha RX-V1600. Now I'm feeding my HD-DVD player using HDMI and I can get full 7.1 processing from the audio side. I know it's limited to 1080i passthrough on the video side, but I'll be sticking with 720P for a few years (now an AE700 LCD). I got 2 HD-DVD from Netflix (Troy and MI III). Got em in 1 day.

On top of that I found a 20GB PS3 today, so I can add Blu-Ray to my Netflix account.

XMAS came early for me!! :)
If anyone is interested I'm holding a 60GB PS3 that I am going to return to Toys-R-Us.

Dave

I read this morning at TV Predictions that DISH is changing its HD package price to an all-in $20 (excluding premium HD channels such as HBO).

How does this differ from the current price for both the basic and VOOM HD packages? I seem to recall that the basic was $12 and VOOM $5, which would add up to a $3 per month increase. Is that correct?

I think they did away with the basic/VOOM packages when they went to the Metal packages. The metal packages are basically the AT packages + $20

FYI and for future reference, I have a client who has two older-model DirecTV HD receivers that he isn't using and would be interested in unloading. I didn't remember to capture the model numbers, but they are similar in appearance to the HD TiVo and were probably new 3 years ago, which would be about the time the HD TiVo was released.

Because these are MPEG-2 only, they have limited value as DirecTV receivers but would be useful for someone looking for an OTA tuner alternative (and I believe they are priced appropriately).

However, they do have valid security cards, so using them for DirecTV is definitely an option..

If anyone is interested, send me a private message.

I think they did away with the basic/VOOM packages when they went to the Metal packages. The metal packages are basically the AT packages + $20Thanks, Dave. So DISH HD pricing isn't going up, correct?

Official: Liberty Media To Control DirecTV

The following is breaking news, reported by SkyREPORT:
___________________________________________________

Liberty Media said this morning it entered into an agreement with News Corp. to exchange Liberty's 16.3 percent stake in News Corp. for the media giant's 38.5-percent stake in DIRECTV.

Liberty also picked up regional sports networks controlled by News Corp. in Denver, Pittsburgh and Seattle and cash through the much-anticipated deal.

Other news tidbits coming from the announcement ... Liberty said it is expected Chase Carey - a long-time executive with the satellite TV company and News Corp. - will continue to serve as DIRECTV's president and CEO. Liberty will appoint directors to fill board seats currently held by News Corp. representatives.

The boards of News Corp. and Liberty unanimously approved the transaction.

Liberty said the deal is expected to close in mid-2007. The transaction is subject to regulatory and News Corp. shareholder approvals and the receipt of a private letter ruling from the Internal Revenue Service. In addition to that tax ruling, it's expected the Federal Communications Commission will scrutinize the deal.

This is just the latest sale involving DIRECTV. In 2002, General Motors, which at the time controlled DIRECTV parent Hughes Electronics, attempted to sell the satellite business to EchoStar, but the deal ran afoul with regulators worried about a combination of the nation's two biggest DBS platforms. DIRECTV was then sold to News Corp. in late 2003.
___________________________________________________

Anyone know why the NFL game tonight on NFL Network was not in Dolby Digital 5.1? :(

Scott


I haven't seen any of the games thus far broadcast in 5.1. All have been stereo.

Thanks, Dave. So DISH HD pricing isn't going up, correct?
It is going up, Doug.
My post related to current subs who have, and understand the current pricing structure. Obviously, less understand it than do, and it's especially confusing to new/potential subs.

On average, the current rates will increase $3.00/month. With some packages not increasing at all, and DISHs' top package increasing $10.00/month.

From the TVP article:
"For instance, if you subscribe to Dish's "Top 180" package for $49.99 -- and add the HDTV programming lineup -- your monthly price will be $69.99."

The "Top 180" package will be discontinued, and changed to the "Top 250" package, which also increases it $3.00/mo. So, if a sub has the "Top 180" package now, it will become the "Top 250" package on 2/1/07, and increase $3.00/mo. Adding HD is still an additional $20.00/month. The $20.00/mo covers all 30 DISH HD channels.

I don't see it any less confusing as before. I believe DISH used the roll out of the medal HD packages to coincide with the roll out of their MGEG4 receivers, as a way to "jump-start" their HD subscription base. Now that it is off-the-ground, DISH is reverting back to their "Americas Top XXX package + HD + Premiums.

There will be little, if any change in programing. The "new" Top xxx" programs now include all the non-video channels, Sirius, etc, which were always there, just not "counted" in the package name.

FWIW, I talked to customer retention at D* yesterday. Back in January when I got my HD set I also got the HD DVR. I paid $200 for it and they rolled a bunch of credits in to offset the cost. I agreed to go ahead and buy it provided I get their next DVR and 5 LNB free later in the year. I said I didn't want to have to buy 2 units in one year. They refused to honor it until yesterday. The best they would do was $99 which is not bad, but not free as agreed. They wanted $299 upfront and credit back $200. The person I spoke with said it probably had to do with the demand over the summer. In any case, I am not abandoning my HR 10-250 anytime soon. Supposedly D* will continue using the larger dishes until they run out and then start installing the slimline ones according to the rep.. I am not switching over until I can get a slimline. I see no reason to get it until late Spring in advance of the rush. (Additional MPEG-4 channels are supposed to be added in September). Hopefully by then they will have the bugs worked out.

The rep also said it would extend my commitment by a year and I can keep my HR 10.

I called Wednesday to get a 2nd HR20, I have been promised 2 free, and possibly a third
if I talk to a supervisor.

Anyway, the first guy I talked to said he needed to transfer me to the CIS group (install team)
because the computer was only letting him credit me $150 max. So I get transferred
and the lady tells me they aren't taking any orders for the HR20 because they are out of
stock. She also told me that they had a signup list for them but they stopped doing that, too.

As far as the Slimline goes, my brother got his 5LNB and 2 H20 ordered fulfilled last week
and they put on the Slimline. I believe the tech told him that here locally all they are putting
up is the Slimline now.

I don't quite understand what the commitment has to do with the HR10. Are you leasing
that? I have 3 HR10's and when I got my first HR20 they just unplugged one of the HR10's
and I kept it.

Since I have just called to order Dish, I guess I would like to know what the latest equipment is that I should be looking for. I ordered 1 HD tuner (non-dvr) and 1 dual tuner (non-dvr). This is under the bronze package.

Since I have just called to order Dish, I guess I would like to know what the latest equipment is that I should be looking for. I ordered 1 HD tuner (non-dvr) and 1 dual tuner (non-dvr). This is under the bronze package.
HD-VIP211 MPEG4 - Single Tuner HD HERE (http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/product_brochures/ViP211_ProductSheet_HighRes.pdf)
SD-322 MPEG2 - dual tuner/TV HERE (http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/product_brochures/dish_322.pdf)

If you subscribe to locals, you should get the 1000+ antenna and DPP44 switch, which is needed to receive the STL digital locals via satellite. (note you can only receive the digital locals on the MPEG4 receiver)

Since I have just called to order Dish, I guess I would like to know what the latest equipment is that I should be looking for. I ordered 1 HD tuner (non-dvr) and 1 dual tuner (non-dvr). This is under the bronze package.


BTW, welcome back to the 21st century.

Thanks for the info. Now I am trying to confirm with some lady in St. Charles that they have equipment and that they will be here on Christmas Eve. I am not holding my breath. But, my family will be PO'd if we sit around waiting and they cancel. They "say" they will call me back with info. She is having a problem in that she does not even see the work order in the system. Its starting to sound like Charters install/billing systems.

Thanks for the info. Now I am trying to confirm with some lady in St. Charles that they have equipment and that they will be here on Christmas Eve. I am not holding my breath. But, my family will be PO'd if we sit around waiting and they cancel. They "say" they will call me back with info. She is having a problem in that she does not even see the work order in the system. Its starting to sound like Charters install/billing systems.
Is it ADS or Ketterman?

I called Wednesday to get a 2nd HR20, I have been promised 2 free, and possibly a third
if I talk to a supervisor.

Anyway, the first guy I talked to said he needed to transfer me to the CIS group (install team)
because the computer was only letting him credit me $150 max. So I get transferred
and the lady tells me they aren't taking any orders for the HR20 because they are out of
stock. She also told me that they had a signup list for them but they stopped doing that, too.

As far as the Slimline goes, my brother got his 5LNB and 2 H20 ordered fulfilled last week
and they put on the Slimline. I believe the tech told him that here locally all they are putting
up is the Slimline now.

I don't quite understand what the commitment has to do with the HR10. Are you leasing
that? I have 3 HR10's and when I got my first HR20 they just unplugged one of the HR10's
and I kept it.

It has nothing to do with the HR10. I think because the HR20 is free is how they weasel the commitment. I own the HR10. I got it before the leasing kicked in so I get to keep it.

Thanks for the info about the slimline, but I am still holding off for a few monhs. I have no reason to switch right now and I want to keep the dual buffer and Tivo interface as long as I can.

Yeah, I completely understand about the dual buffer thing.

I was monitoring DBStalk.com and saw that people are ordering the HR20 again.

So I called DirecTV. I am able to order the HR20 for $49. But....They want me to pay the
full price of $299 + tax and that has to be paid via Credit Card and then they will credit
my account the difference.

So to me that is kind of stupid...so I told them to forget it.

Oh well, the good news is that it is available.

Yeah, I completely understand about the dual buffer thing.

I was monitoring DBStalk.com and saw that people are ordering the HR20 again.

So I called DirecTV. I am able to order the HR20 for $49. But....They want me to pay the
full price of $299 + tax and that has to be paid via Credit Card and then they will credit
my account the difference.

So to me that is kind of stupid...so I told them to forget it.

Oh well, the good news is that it is available.

They wanted me to charge $299 to my card as well and credit back $200 to my D* account. I think it sucks too. I have been a customer for 5 years as of last month. It coincides with my join date to AVS.

Funny, when I said yetserday that they broke their commitment to me by not honoring the free HR20 is when it suddenly became free. I also got a $10 a month credit for 6 months since they keep screwing up my bill.

Completely off topic, but I must vent!!!

My wife just called and said she got a $253 dollar speeding ticket!!!!!!

GRRRRR!!!!!!!!

OK, just called Dish to confirm my install for Sunday. I was given a number to "dispatch" here in St. Charles. They said they had the order. I said great, read it off to me. It was completely wrong. Now I have a three way call going between Century-tel/dish/myself so that everybody can get on the same page. Should it really be this difficult? Should I really have the manage every step to make sure "they" are doing their job!

Official: Liberty Media To Control DirecTV

The following is breaking news, reported by SkyREPORT:
___________________________________________________

Liberty Media said this morning it entered into an agreement with News Corp. to exchange Liberty's 16.3 percent stake in News Corp. for the media giant's 38.5-percent stake in DIRECTV.

Liberty also picked up regional sports networks controlled by News Corp. in Denver, Pittsburgh and Seattle and cash through the much-anticipated deal.

Other news tidbits coming from the announcement ... Liberty said it is expected Chase Carey - a long-time executive with the satellite TV company and News Corp. - will continue to serve as DIRECTV's president and CEO. Liberty will appoint directors to fill board seats currently held by News Corp. representatives.

The boards of News Corp. and Liberty unanimously approved the transaction.

Liberty said the deal is expected to close in mid-2007. The transaction is subject to regulatory and News Corp. shareholder approvals and the receipt of a private letter ruling from the Internal Revenue Service. In addition to that tax ruling, it's expected the Federal Communications Commission will scrutinize the deal.

This is just the latest sale involving DIRECTV. In 2002, General Motors, which at the time controlled DIRECTV parent Hughes Electronics, attempted to sell the satellite business to EchoStar, but the deal ran afoul with regulators worried about a combination of the nation's two biggest DBS platforms. DIRECTV was then sold to News Corp. in late 2003.
___________________________________________________

Wasn't Fox Sports Pittsburgh the only other Fox Sports network that didn't go HD and get added to DirecTV?

I'm still trying to figure out why FSN-MW is the only RSN to not have a full-time HD channel. (even if all they're showing is mostly SD.)

Completely off topic, but I must vent!!!

My wife just called and said she got a $253 dollar speeding ticket!!!!!!

GRRRRR!!!!!!!!

$253! Merry effing Christmas.

Was she:

speeding in a construction zone?
driving warp speed in your Ferrari?

Exactly what I told my wife. Merry Christmas, you just purchased your own presents.
42 in a 20 construction zone. Out in Wentzville, in my new truck!

When I had Charter service, there was a FSN-MW HD channel. I never watched it, but I believe it was not on 100% of the time.

When I had Charter service, there was a FSN-MW HD channel. I never watched it, but I believe it was not on 100% of the time.


This has been covered so many times :rolleyes: Its only active when there is an actual HD Broadcast, the other times it is color bars. They don't simulcast SD programming on 792 (I believe that's the channel number for the HD)

Completely off topic, but I must vent!!!

My wife just called and said she got a $253 dollar speeding ticket!!!!!!

GRRRRR!!!!!!!!


Lets blame this on Charter too!

OK, just called Dish to confirm my install for Sunday. I was given a number to "dispatch" here in St. Charles. They said they had the order. I said great, read it off to me. It was completely wrong. Now I have a three way call going between Century-tel/dish/myself so that everybody can get on the same page. Should it really be this difficult? Should I really have the manage every step to make sure "they" are doing their job!

Maybe they outsourced their customer service to Charter!

OK, just called Dish to confirm my install for Sunday. I was given a number to "dispatch" here in St. Charles. They said they had the order. I said great, read it off to me. It was completely wrong. Now I have a three way call going between Century-tel/dish/myself so that everybody can get on the same page. Should it really be this difficult? Should I really have the manage every step to make sure "they" are doing their job!
Unfortunately, when a third-party (CenTel; ATT) is used, neither Dish or Direct have the software which permits real time communication. Rather, the information is updated nightly. The only real-time means of processing between the two, is by email or phone, as you've found out.

I suppose, in time, this will change. Telcom's concentration to capture customers into the one-stop bundled purchase is their number one priority, and they leave the logistics to catch up later.

Sadly, your best bet for a clean trouble-free install, is to stay on top of it, and yes, do their job for them.

Sorry for a repost of something discussed already. Just sitting at work, bored to tears. Keep hitting the refresh button waiting for a new post. Sad life...... I am the only one here. Everybody else gone for the day/holiday. My only excitement is arguing with he CSR's. Life of an IT guy......

Sorry for a repost of something discussed already. Just sitting at work, bored to tears. Keep hitting the refresh button waiting for a new post. Sad life...... I am the only one here. Everybody else gone for the day/holiday. My only excitement is arguing with he CSR's. Life of an IT guy......
fdisk c:*.*

live a little :D

not a windows or dos guy. That command would not do anything. ;-P

OK, just called Dish to confirm my install for Sunday. I was given a number to "dispatch" here in St. Charles. They said they had the order. I said great, read it off to me. It was completely wrong. Now I have a three way call going between Century-tel/dish/myself so that everybody can get on the same page. Should it really be this difficult? Should I really have the manage every step to make sure "they" are doing their job!

No, it shouldn't be that hard. Look on the bright side. At least you get to manage the situation. With Charter you would have had no shot at all. Even Charter is out of the loop. Welcome back to the wonderful world of Digital Satellite. :)

Scott

Goodness....I just ran up to WalMart to pick up some Huggies...Daughter had her 2nd this week, so her 1st is staying here...

Hope everyone here is done shopping.....what a Zoo! When I was a kid, we used to do all the shopping on Xmas Eve....I guess that's all but impossible now.

BTT...Scott, do you remember a network Thursday Night Football? It ended well before NFL TV. Do you know if the networks nixed it, or if the league did?

OK, just called Dish to confirm my install for Sunday. I was given a number to "dispatch" here in St. Charles. They said they had the order. I said great, read it off to me. It was completely wrong. Now I have a three way call going between Century-tel/dish/myself so that everybody can get on the same page. Should it really be this difficult? Should I really have the manage every step to make sure "they" are doing their job!

yeah, those satellite installs are terrible. You will have to have a 6-pack of busch beer on hand also, if you expect the guy to actually do the work.

OK, just called Dish to confirm my install for Sunday. I was given a number to "dispatch" here in St. Charles. They said they had the order. I said great, read it off to me. It was completely wrong. Now I have a three way call going between Century-tel/dish/myself so that everybody can get on the same page. Should it really be this difficult? Should I really have the manage every step to make sure "they" are doing their job!
I hope that your install goes well. I also live in St. Charles and ordered dish on monday. My first e-mail from them indicated that I would be getting two boxes, a 211 and a 411, and a dish 1000+ kit and a Dish 500. I called customer service and told them of the error in the order because I have ordered a hd recorder and that I only needed the 1000+ to receive the four satellites necessary. The CSR insisted that I would need a second dish to receive locals and the Bronze package. I received a second e-mail a few minutes after the call and it indicated that I would be getting a VIP 622 - that was good- but it still had a 1000+ kit and a dish 500 on the order. The install is scheduled for tomorrow morning and I am hoping that the installer will know that the 1000+ will get 110, 118.7, 119 and 129 with out a second dish. Wish me well.

I hope that your install goes well. I also live in St. Charles and ordered dish on monday. My first e-mail from them indicated that I would be getting two boxes, a 211 and a 411, and a dish 1000+ kit and a Dish 500. I called customer service and told them of the error in the order because I have ordered a hd recorder and that I only needed the 1000+ to receive the four satellites necessary. The CSR insisted that I would need a second dish to receive locals and the Bronze package. I received a second e-mail a few minutes after the call and it indicated that I would be getting a VIP 622 - that was good- but it still had a 1000+ kit and a dish 500 on the order. The install is scheduled for tomorrow morning and I am hoping that the installer will know that the 1000+ will get 110, 118.7, 119 and 129 with out a second dish. Wish me well.
Ron,
That sounds right. DISH calls the wing on the 1000+ for receiving 129 and the DPP44 switch a "kit," added to the 1000+
You do not need the Dish500. Often they include a 500 on an order in the event the orbital 129 can not be received, and a dual-dish solution is required. You won't have any issues receiving 129.

BTW, a 211 and a 411 are the same receiver, the only difference being the 211 has an Ethernet port. It is not yet enabled, and most all of the 411 stock is depleted.

From your description, when the installer arrives, you should be getting a:
VIP211
VIP622
1000+ dish
wing for additional LNB
2 single LNB's - 1 for 110; 1 for 129
1 dual LNB - for 118.75 and 119 (DBS/FSS band)
DPP44 switch

Goodness....I just ran up to WalMart to pick up some Huggies...Daughter had her 2nd this week, so her 1st is staying here...

Hope everyone here is done shopping.....what a Zoo! When I was a kid, we used to do all the shopping on Xmas Eve....I guess that's all but impossible now.

BTT...Scott, do you remember a network Thursday Night Football? It ended well before NFL TV. Do you know if the networks nixed it, or if the league did?
Yeah - I'm in the Fenton area and it took me 45 minutes to get out of the parking lot of the strip mall with our Best Buy and Barnes & Noble. I had to work up quite a bit of patience not to blow a gasket. They need a cop directiong traffic over there.

Yeah - I'm in the Fenton area and it took me 45 minutes to get out of the parking lot of the strip mall with our Best Buy and Barnes & Noble. I had to work up quite a bit of patience not to blow a gasket. They need a cop directiong traffic over there.

Good thing I work at Northwest Plaza...the place nobody shops!!!

Goodness....I just ran up to WalMart to pick up some Huggies...Daughter had her 2nd this week, so her 1st is staying here...

Hope everyone here is done shopping.....what a Zoo! When I was a kid, we used to do all the shopping on Xmas Eve....I guess that's all but impossible now.

BTT...Scott, do you remember a network Thursday Night Football? It ended well before NFL TV. Do you know if the networks nixed it, or if the league did?

Don't recall anything about Thursday Night Football Network, but if they start one I will watch. :)

Scott

Good thing I work at Northwest Plaza...the place nobody shops!!!

Wish I had gone there instead of Chersterfield Commons. OMG! It was like trying to get in and out of a Cardinals game. I was surprised to walk into Best Buy and see PS3 games for sale. They got in over 50 today, and when I arrived they had only 3 left. This can't be good for everyone selling them on Craigslist.

Scott

Don't recall anything about Thursday Night Football Network, but if they start one I will watch. :)

Scott
I worded it wrong. I did some looking....it was the Thursday night edition of ABC's MNF. I'd say back in the early 90's, they used to schedule a MNF game on Thursday night, and Michaels and Madden called the game on ABC.

I'm trying to figure out whether ABC or the NFL nixed it. It had to be well before the league planned to air Thursday night games on the NFL network.

BTW, we already DO watch a game on Thursday night ;)

I worded it wrong. I did some looking....it was the Thursday night edition of ABC's MNF. I'd say back in the early 90's, they used to schedule a MNF game on Thursday night, and Michaels and Madden called the game on ABC.

I'm trying to figure out whether ABC or the NFL nixed it. It had to be well before the league planned to air Thursday night games on the NFL network.

BTW, we already DO watch a game on Thursday night ;)

Yeah, I remember Monday Night games on Thursdays. I'm sure ABC ended it as I see no reason why the NFL would have. I remeber thinking it was weird to call it Monday Night Football. Why not call it what it was? You're right. We do have Thursday Night Football! :D

Scott

Here is a very interesting article about the State of HD on Satellite/cable

http://multichannel.com/article/CA6400524.html

Not So High on High Definition
Squeezed Signals Mean Some HDTV Customers Aren't Happy With What They See

A pretty tough crowd hangs out at AVSForum.com. Tough as in tough to please.

The site, which has more than 180,000 registered members, hosts discussions about high-end home-entertainment systems, including high-definition TV sets and programs. For some of these videophiles, even the best HD signals cable and satellite providers deliver aren't good enough.


Later,

Mark

Here is a very interesting article about the State of HD on Satellite/cable

http://multichannel.com/article/CA6400524.html

Not So High on High Definition
Squeezed Signals Mean Some HDTV Customers Aren't Happy With What They See

A pretty tough crowd hangs out at AVSForum.com. Tough as in tough to please.

The site, which has more than 180,000 registered members, hosts discussions about high-end home-entertainment systems, including high-definition TV sets and programs. For some of these videophiles, even the best HD signals cable and satellite providers deliver aren't good enough.



Later,

Mark

Mark,

Thanks for the link. Very interesting read. It would be nice if all of the providers would have to tell us what bitrate they were feeding us. Maybe that guys law suit of D* will help us all out. I didn't know ESPN had a contract forcing the higher bitrate. No wonder I've always thougt ESPN's football blows every other channel away. Good job ESPN.

Scott

I was 1/2 way through the article until I realized it's the same one DTR posted last week.

They say the mind is the first thing to go :o

[INDENT]http://multichannel.com/article/CA6400524.html

Thanks, Mark, I have sent that link to the engineering departments at channels 4, 5, 9 and 11; with the request that they reconsider trying to squeeze multiple video streams into one channel.

Anybody who wants to do the same can find appropriate email addresses on the station Web sites.

yeah, those satellite installs are terrible. You will have to have a 6-pack of busch beer on hand also, if you expect the guy to actually do the work.


I just had an install with Dish for an equipment upgrade. Everything went well. Installer was kind and courteous. He even left his own phone number and insisted that I call him if I had any problems and he would be more than happy to help me. I guess it must have something with a positive attitude and how you treat other people.

Sheerce and Capt Ron I hope things go well for you.

Oh and Capt Ron, great nick. "Don't worry boss, it could happen to anybody."

A note to all:

I had Doug (DropTheRemote) callibrate a 42" plasma a month or so ago. Anyone who lurks here knows how thorough and nice Doug is, so those go without saying.

After my callibration I came back here and thanked him, because I was happy with how my TV looked. I have to admit I was not blown away like some have been by their experience after a callibration by Doug.

To explain a little, and Doug can correct me if I am wrong, but his price includes callibrating 3 inputs on a TV. The main 2 inputs I was concerned with were the component input which was receiving HD programming from my DishNetwork HD DVR receiver and the DVI which was going to be receiving HD programming as soon as I upgraded to the new MPEG4 HD DVR. My set up prior to upgrading to MPEG4 had my HD DVR hooked to 2 TVs feeding the same HD signal from both (one through component and one through HDMI). Doug callibrated the one hooked through component, and because of the location of the two TVs my component run to the callibrated 42" plasma was about 40 feet. Since my upgrade I moved that same receiver to the room with the 42" plasma and connected it to the same TV with a HDMI to DVI cable (6 feet). The difference is amazing. I have concluded from talking with others (notably kdg454) the difference has to be the length of the run. Now I am getting the full advantage of the callibration and I have to say I am blown away, and I finally see what others were talking about on here. When Sportscenter is on it looks like the host is in the room with you.

When Doug left after the callibration I did see improvement. However my thank you and endorsement here was admittedly rather vanilla. Now that I have the ability to put the receiver in the same room as the callibrated TV, I realize the long component run was the shortfall in picture quality. I must say Doug's callibration work is nothing short of top notch. Anyone interested in top end picture quality should consider it.

I was 1/2 way through the article until I realized it's the same one DTR posted last week.

They say the mind is the first thing to go :o

The mind is the SECOND to go. Unfortunately, I forget what the first is. :confused: :eek: :D

Walt

E* Install went great

My earlier post expressed my concerns about getting the equipment that I was expecting for my install that was scheduled for today. Would like report that the install went without a hitch. The only minor snag was that I had requested a morning installation and the tech showed up at 1:30. Still not bad and he was able to install the 1000+ on the roof of a third story dormer, did all of the cabling to the first floor and hooked up the 622 in about 3 hours. I was able to pull in all of the OTA locals except 11 with my antenna in the attic. All in all I have no complaints about e* service or video quality.

Broke down and bought a HD-DVD player.

Really the only reason is because I have an Xbox 360 and for $200 you can buy the add-on that plays HD-DVD's. I must say, I am very impressed with this player. Very easy to integrate into my system. I am usually an early adopter, so it's been killing me not to partake sooner. Especially considering I sold over 500 DVD's 2 years ago in anticipation of HD-DVD. I knew I would want to rebuy many titles, so I sold 'em while I could still get something for them. I have been patiently waiting for a universal player, but who knows if it will ever happen. Anyway, anyone with a Xbox 360 should look at one.

Scott

E* Install went great

My earlier post expressed my concerns about getting the equipment that I was expecting for my install that was scheduled for today. Would like report that the install went without a hitch. The only minor snag was that I had requested a morning installation and the tech showed up at 1:30. Still not bad and he was able to install the 1000+ on the roof of a third story dormer, did all of the cabling to the first floor and hooked up the 622 in about 3 hours. I was able to pull in all of the OTA locals except 11 with my antenna in the attic. All in all I have no complaints about e* service or video quality.

Congrats! Satellite is awesome. You won't regret it. Moving the antenna just a little may bring in 11 for you if that matters.

Scott

Once again, NFL Network's Chiefs vs. Raiders game looks great but no 5.1 sound. :(

E* Install went great

My earlier post expressed my concerns about getting the equipment that I was expecting for my install that was scheduled for today. Would like report that the install went without a hitch. The only minor snag was that I had requested a morning installation and the tech showed up at 1:30. Still not bad and he was able to install the 1000+ on the roof of a third story dormer, did all of the cabling to the first floor and hooked up the 622 in about 3 hours. I was able to pull in all of the OTA locals except 11 with my antenna in the attic. All in all I have no complaints about e* service or video quality.


I'm glad things went well. Don't try to tell some people here though, they just won't believe you. I think you will love the 622. I have had a 942 (basically a 622 without MPEG4 technology) for quite some time and it is great. I just added a 622 this week. kdg454 will also tell you he is happy with his 622 I believe.

Most of all I am happy to see you adopted a great signature. Great movie, kudos Capt Ron.

Once again, NFL Network's Chiefs vs. Raiders game looks great but no 5.1 sound. :(

Is there anyone with Dish that can confirm that it is in 5.1? I have never gotten
it flagged as 5.1.

Broke down and bought a HD-DVD player.

Really the only reason is because I have an Xbox 360 and for $200 you can buy the add-on that plays HD-DVD's. I must say, I am very impressed with this player. Very easy to integrate into my system. I am usually an early adopter, so it's been killing me not to partake sooner. Especially considering I sold over 500 DVD's 2 years ago in anticipation of HD-DVD. I knew I would want to rebuy many titles, so I sold 'em while I could still get something for them. I have been patiently waiting for a universal player, but who knows if it will ever happen. Anyway, anyone with a Xbox 360 should look at one.

Scott

I am patiently waiting to open mine for Christmas. I did install the software and
hook it up yesterday to test upconverting SD DVD. Didn't work. I used a ripped
(no macrovision) and consumer version of a DVD and no upconverting.

I put it back in the box. I don't want to ruin the "Surprise". (I was there when it was purchased.)

Is there anyone with Dish that can confirm that it is in 5.1? I have never gotten
it flagged as 5.1.

Can anyone with Charter confirm 5.1?

Edit: Oh yeah, nevermind :D

Can anyone with Charter confirm 5.1?

Edit: Oh yeah, nevermind :D
Not so....my neighbor just got Charter.
He gave the installer a 6-pack of Bud....got him to hook up NFL, in HD, and with 5.1

It's amazing the tips you can learn in these forums! :rolleyes:

Not so....my neighbor just got Charter.
He gave the installer a 6-pack of Bud....got him to hook up NFL, in HD, and with 5.1

It's amazing the tips you can learn in these forums! :rolleyes:


Huh?

Huh?
My mistake, it must have been satellite....I get them confused all the time.

My mistake, it must have been satellite....I get them confused all the time.


OK, stop, I'm at the in-laws for the holiday weekend. Soon they are gonna wonder why I am laughing.

I am patiently waiting to open mine for Christmas. I did install the software and
hook it up yesterday to test upconverting SD DVD. Didn't work. I used a ripped
(no macrovision) and consumer version of a DVD and no upconverting.

I put it back in the box. I don't want to ruin the "Surprise". (I was there when it was purchased.)

It will upconvert, but via vga only to 1080p I believe. I watched Mission Impossible 3 HD-DVD and it looked good. I tried some burned DVD's that normally skip and freeze up on my Denon DVD-2900, but they did not freeze up on the Xbox. One burned DVD-R I tried didn't work however, so I'll have to play around with it tomorrow some more. This is getting out of hand as I have 4 DVD players in the same rack. :eek:

Scott

Thanks, Mark, I have sent that link to the engineering departments at channels 4, 5, 9 and 11; with the request that they reconsider trying to squeeze multiple video streams into one channel.

Anybody who wants to do the same can find appropriate email addresses on the station Web sites.

What a good idea to send it to the stations. Posting the email addresses may help getting it sent more.

What a good idea to send it to the stations. Posting the email addresses may help getting it sent more.eMail addresses for STL stations appear in the very first message in this thread, and links to that message are included in the resource guide reminder that I post here every 10 days or so.

Just wanted to say Happy Holidays to everyone in the "Neiborhood", and just wanted to say thanks for all the great information everyone provides here.

Rams game is on Directv's Sunday Ticket in HD for those you with D* Gotta love Satellite.

Scott

I have been getting the game on both ST and OTA lately. Not sure why because last year they always blacked out on ST whatever was

So far so good :D

Looks like they blacked out the Rams on the SD channels but not the HD (723).
Hopefully it will last the whole game ;)

Happy Holidays!

Token

Shhhh! I know someone who will call and tell on you both.

Shhhh! I know someone who will call and tell on you both.

Probably the same Grinch that stole the Rams season in week 6 :)

Mums the word.

Token

It is weird that the SD version is always blacked out but the HD version is not.............

Go BEARS!

For those of you with Charter or DISH, a play under review with Bruce catching a pass in the end zone. 2nd quarter update.

I had a gig yesterday afternoon and evening, so I set up the TiVo to record the Kansas-Boston College and Florida-Ohio State basketball games. I figured there's not much on during the holidays, so even a couple of semi-stale hoops matches would be a good fallback if I wanted to watch something when I got home.

Unfortunately, the Kansas game was pretty much a rout (and in SD to boot) and when I went to fire up the OSU-FL recoding I noticed that the Duration said: 0:47, instead of the 3 hours I had set it for. Later on, checking another recording I made for holiday fallback ("Wayne's World" on HBO), I found that it was also truncated to 47 minutes.

Based on those abbreviated recordings and the fact that I had to re-key the macro for the 30-second skip, it appears that my TiVo rebooted itself somewhere around 2:45 Saturday afternoon.

My first thought was that maybe my TiVo had received the update to the current firmware, but 6.3a was still showing when I checked the System Information page.

I know there wasn't any sort of power failure here, so I wonder if anyone else experienced any spontaneous rebooting lately. I just checked my TiVo and it hasn't rebooted since.

For those of you with Charter or DISH, a play under review with Bruce catching a pass in the end zone. 2nd quarter update.

Oh, that's just not right. :D

Scott

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

In the past, we used to begin each month of the St. Louis discussion with an entirely new thread and usually that started with a cut/paste of basic resource information that is now buried back on the very first page of this discussion thread.

Because of its location, a lot of that general, introductory information about HDTV and OTA reception is now easily overlooked, especially with the discussion here stretching back more than 3 years and approaching 600 pages.

So, in order to this introductory information more accessible, I post an advisory/reminder note similar to this every couple of weeks. The idea is to make this general resource information more visible and easier to find for more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

Hopefully, you'll find this information of some use...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995679&&#post2995679)

Using An Antenna to Receive Local HD Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995718&&#post2995718)

Common Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8523674&&#post8523674)

Why Isn't KDNL-DT (ABC) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8072643&&#post8072643)

New! St. Louis Blues in HD Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8678636&&#post8678636)

2006 Survey Results: HDTV in St. Louis

Part 1: Profile of Survey Respondents (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9075182&&#post9075182)

Part 2: Local Digital Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9091629&&#post9091629)

Part 3: Digital Multicasting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9127512&&#post9127512)

Part 4: Customer Ratings for Charter, DirecTV & DISH HD Services (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9157953&&#post9157953)

Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

I had a gig yesterday afternoon and evening, so I set up the TiVo to record the Kansas-Boston College and Florida-Ohio State basketball games. I figured there's not much on during the holidays, so even a couple of semi-stale hoops matches would be a good fallback if I wanted to watch something when I got home.

Unfortunately, the Kansas game was pretty much a rout (and in SD to boot) and when I went to fire up the OSU-FL recoding I noticed that the Duration said: 0:47, instead of the 3 hours I had set it for. Later on, checking another recording I made for holiday fallback ("Wayne's World" on HBO), I found that it was also truncated to 47 minutes.

Based on those abbreviated recordings and the fact that I had to re-key the macro for the 30-second skip, it appears that my TiVo rebooted itself somewhere around 2:45 Saturday afternoon.

My first thought was that maybe my TiVo had received the update to the current firmware, but 6.3a was still showing when I checked the System Information page.

I know there wasn't any sort of power failure here, so I wonder if anyone else experienced any spontaneous rebooting lately. I just checked my TiVo and it hasn't rebooted since.

No issues for my HD Tivo. I didn't get the 6.3b update yet either.

Scott

[.

My first thought was that maybe my TiVo had received the update to the current firmware, but 6.3a was still showing when I checked the System Information page.

I know there wasn't any sort of power failure here, so I wonder if anyone else experienced any spontaneous rebooting lately. I just checked my TiVo and it hasn't rebooted since.[/QUOTE]

I had the same thing happen saturday, and didnt recieve the update either. I did recieve the update for my hr20 the day before.

No issues for my HD Tivo. I didn't get the 6.3b update yet either.

ScottI have 6.3b on one my HR10s, but not the other. Can't say if it fixed the OTA audio problem, but I did record a show since and still have the audio flagging problem. I have to cycle my AV receiver audio modes before it'll pick up any audio. Never had this problem before 3.1.

My HD-TiVo has rebooted about three or four times since receiving 6.3a.

Still waiting on B.

***EDIT: I should add that I NEVER had a reboot prior to the 6.3 update.

Broke down and bought a HD-DVD player.

Really the only reason is because I have an Xbox 360 and for $200 you can buy the add-on that plays HD-DVD's. I must say, I am very impressed with this player. Very easy to integrate into my system. I am usually an early adopter, so it's been killing me not to partake sooner. Especially considering I sold over 500 DVD's 2 years ago in anticipation of HD-DVD. I knew I would want to rebuy many titles, so I sold 'em while I could still get something for them. I have been patiently waiting for a universal player, but who knows if it will ever happen. Anyway, anyone with a Xbox 360 should look at one.

Scott

Don't know if you do any capture (OTA or satellite), but if you do you can find out how to burn your own HD DVD's over in the HD DVD Software Section. There's a sticky there for how to do it.

Here's the link:

HD DVD Authoring (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146)

There still isn't much out there commercially, so burning your own is a good way to build a library more quickly.

Don't know if you do any capture (OTA or satellite), but if you do you can find out how to burn your own HD DVD's over in the HD DVD Software Section. There's a sticky there for how to do it.

Here's the link:

HD DVD Authoring (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146)

There still isn't much out there commercially, so burning your own is a good way to build a library more quickly.

Thanks Joe. I was thinking of you and wondering how you did it, so I will definitely check into it. I did make copies of all my SD DVD's until I got tired of a certain issue. On most of the DVD's I copied at or near the end of the movie the disc would freeze up badly. I got so tired of this I quit burning all together. If I burn some HD-DVD's, I hope I don't get the same issue.

Scott

I recently received the 6.3b upgrade, and since I've had 2 spontaneous reboots.
Ed t.

I had a gig yesterday afternoon and evening, so I set up the TiVo to record the Kansas-Boston College and Florida-Ohio State basketball games. I figured there's not much on during the holidays, so even a couple of semi-stale hoops matches would be a good fallback if I wanted to watch something when I got home.

Unfortunately, the Kansas game was pretty much a rout (and in SD to boot) and when I went to fire up the OSU-FL recoding I noticed that the Duration said: 0:47, instead of the 3 hours I had set it for. Later on, checking another recording I made for holiday fallback ("Wayne's World" on HBO), I found that it was also truncated to 47 minutes.

Based on those abbreviated recordings and the fact that I had to re-key the macro for the 30-second skip, it appears that my TiVo rebooted itself somewhere around 2:45 Saturday afternoon.

My first thought was that maybe my TiVo had received the update to the current firmware, but 6.3a was still showing when I checked the System Information page.

I know there wasn't any sort of power failure here, so I wonder if anyone else experienced any spontaneous rebooting lately. I just checked my TiVo and it hasn't rebooted since.

Based on those abbreviated recordings and the fact that I had to re-key the macro for the 30-second skip, it appears that my TiVo rebooted itself somewhere around 2:45 Saturday afternoon.

I haven't had any missed or chopped recordings, but on both of my HD Tivo's I've had to reprogram the 30 second skip feature at least 5x in the last couple of weeks. Before the firmware upgrade, I never had a reboot and would have to rekey the 30 second skip whenever the power went out.

I've also had really bad audio dropouts of late.

Thanks Joe. I was thinking of you and wondering how you did it, so I will definitely check into it. I did make copies of all my SD DVD's until I got tired of a certain issue. On most of the DVD's I copied at or near the end of the movie the disc would freeze up badly. I got so tired of this I quit burning all together. If I burn some HD-DVD's, I hope I don't get the same issue.

Scott

Burning your own HD DVD's should be less of a problem. If you decide to do it, let me know. I'd be glad to help you get through the initial shock of seeing the relatively lengthy guide. Once you get the process down, it's really pretty simple.



Merry Christmas, everyone. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

Burning your own HD DVD's should be less of a problem. If you decide to do it, let me know. I'd be glad to help you get through the initial shock of seeing the relatively lengthy guide. Once you get the process down, it's really pretty simple.



Merry Christmas, everyone. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

Thanks Joe. I did browes through the "lengthy" guide. I must say, I was pretty overwhelmed. I will let you know if I venture into actually trying.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to all!

Scott

Sorry, if this has already been discussed to death, but is it true that KMOX (CBS) in HD will no longer be available to Charter customers after Jan 1st?

Sorry, if this has already been discussed to death, but is it true that KMOX (CBS) in HD will no longer be available to Charter customers after Jan 1st?

Not sure it's been "discussed to death" because this is the first I've heard of it. Sorry, I couldn't have been more helpful.

Scott

Just now catching up with the last few days. My cablemodem died day before yesterday and I'm waiting for a new one from buy.com (price after rebate $28.71 compared to $79.99 for the exact same model from Best Buy locally). Right now I'm typing this from my parents' place in Terre Haute, Indiana, through their dialup connection.......... Flintstones, meet the Flintstones...... :D

Re: NFL Network in 5.1.... not this last weekend but the weekend before (don't remember if it was Saturday or Thursday), on DirecTV the game was not only not 5.1, it was MONO! I got nothing but a center channel. No fronts, no rears, no bass.

Re: HD Tivo reboots. Haven't had any recordings cut off, but several reboots in the last couple of weeks.

Merry Christmas everybody!

I recently received the 6.3b upgrade, and since I've had 2 spontaneous reboots.
Ed t.Mine doesn't reboot. It just plain locks up until I pull the power plug and restart. It did it that this morning, despite having the 6.3b software. I wrote D* to complain. I'm ready to just switch to HR20 boxes now.

HR20's have their own sets of problems.

Frankly, I'd like to go back to the 3.x version of my TiVo. However, getting the instantcake, etc. is a lot more than I would like to do.

Has anyone here done it?

Sorry, if this has already been discussed to death, but is it true that KMOX (CBS) in HD will no longer be available to Charter customers after Jan 1st?
Only thing I recall relate to Sinclair, KDNL/ABC here in STL, and Medicom in IL and KY.

Anything to do with KMOV/CBS and Charter, is probably just a bad rumor, most likely starter by the SatCasters to lure some market.

They wouldn't do that...would they?

Hope Y'all are having a Wonderful Day today...Merry Christmas :)

HR20's have their own sets of problems.

Frankly, I'd like to go back to the 3.x version of my TiVo....Worse than locking up without warning, and staying that way until you notice and cycle the power? I'd also like to go back to 3.1f.

No, not that bad.

But it does miss recordings and you can get partials, though its getting better.

Of course, our TiVo's are missing recordings and giving us partials now, too. Honestly, I'm beginning to use the HR20 more as primary now whereas I had planned to use it as a secondary and backup DVR.

Unless a reboot happens in the middle of a show with the HR10-250, how do you know if it rebooted? I have looked in system information and don't know where it would show up.

I guess I shouldn't, but I use the term reboot and lockup synonomously with the HR10-250.

I have been getting tons of lockups and one or two random reboots since 6.3a.

If your 30-second skip suddenly doesn't work and you have re-key the sequence to enable it again, chances are it rebooted.

I have an InstantCake CD ready to go (bought it before *D released the 6.3 software). When I can afford a 750gig drive to load it on, I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Unless a reboot happens in the middle of a show with the HR10-250, how do you know if it rebooted? I have looked in system information and don't know where it would show up.If your 30 sec. commercial skip stops working, it's a sure bet that's because of a reboot.

Edit: Oops...just saw prev msg with same explanation.

...in just what mode a station is broadcasting?

I'm seeing more and more material that displays with black bars around all four sides, as if it was originally recorded in 16:9 and shrunk to 4:3 (thus creating top and and bottom black bars) before being displayed on my Samsung DLP receiver (thus adding left and right bars).

The "Info" button on the Samsung displays a little box that reports the program content (sometimes) and aspect ratio (sometimes correctly). Much of the time it reports 16:9, 1080i when it is clearly 4:3 SDTV. (All of this is OTA, local channels.)

Is this "Info" box driven by digital flags embedded in the program, or is it erroneously set by the local broadcasters? Are programs like "60 Minutes" still SD? Is this all going to get straightened out some day, or are we doomed to video chaos?

Master, please enlighten the grasshopper.

Dan,

Typically when you see black (or gray) bars around the sides of digital OTA stations, the black or gray bars are actually part of the 16x9 picture sent by the station. So in this case, if it is a digital broadcast, it is in 16x9 and it is UPCONVERTED 720p or 1080i.

Most daytime local TV, most reality shows ("American Idol" being one of the few exceptions) and most news/documentary programming (KSDK local news an exception to this) remains in standard def, meaning that it will be upconverted for digital broadcasting.

There will NEVER be a point where all broadcasting is 16x9 HD -- or at least, if it does happen none of us here will still be alive to rejoice over it. :)

There are more than 50 years of standard-definition programming "in the vaults" and that will remain a part of our TV viewing for a very, very long time.

Thanks Joe. I did browes through the "lengthy" guide. I must say, I was pretty overwhelmed. I will let you know if I venture into actually trying.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to all!

Scott

I'm sure a lot of people look at the guide and can't get past the length of the explanations. I tried to make it detailed enough so that even someone with little or no experience could do it if they followed the instructions closely. It's not really that difficult. PM me if you want to give it a try and I should be able to help abbreviate the process for you.

How do you like your HD DVD player?

How do you like your HD DVD player?


I know you weren't talking to me, but I'm going to chime in...

The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player is really easy to set up. The disc play is fine.
The only thing I notice is what has already been talked about in the DVD Forum,
bad dynamics in regards to the sound. The LFE is kind of non-existent.

I know you weren't talking to me, but I'm going to chime in...

The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player is really easy to set up. The disc play is fine.
The only thing I notice is what has already been talked about in the DVD Forum,
bad dynamics in regards to the sound. The LFE is kind of non-existent.
Bill,
In your opinion, would you say a stand-alone HD DVD player would/will perform better?

........The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player is really easy to set up. The disc play is fine. The only thing I notice is what has already been talked about in the DVD Forum, bad dynamics in regards to the sound. The LFE is kind of non-existent.

With my Kids' new Xbox 360, I was exploring the possility of going this route. What do you mean by LFE being non-existent? Actually, what is LFE?

LFE = low frequency (sound) effects.

In other words, the data that make your subwoofer go "ahhhhhhhh" (in a REALLY low voice).

I'm sure a lot of people look at the guide and can't get past the length of the explanations. I tried to make it detailed enough so that even someone with little or no experience could do it if they followed the instructions closely. It's not really that difficult. PM me if you want to give it a try and I should be able to help abbreviate the process for you.

How do you like your HD DVD player?

I have only viewed MI3 on it thus far, so really hesitate to comment on Pic quality yet. I will tell you what I do like is:

1. Ease of connection to Xbox.
2. Uses Xbox component video, so I didn't have to buy, run another one. This is good because my Denon receiver is full of component ins.
3. It fit on the same self as the Xbox, so I didn't have to reconfigure a bunch of stuff which I actually did the week prior anyway.
4. The remote is fully backlite!!!!!!!! Although I programmed it all into my Harmony 880 anyway.
5. Loads faster than all the ohter players.

One thing I don't like is it will not play DVD-R which I own 300+ titles in that format.
The DVD+R's do play on it, and thend to play better than on any of my other 5 DVD players. In otherwords no skipping or freezing like on my other players. I look forward to watching more movies on it soon.

Scott

I know you weren't talking to me, but I'm going to chime in...

The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player is really easy to set up. The disc play is fine.
The only thing I notice is what has already been talked about in the DVD Forum,
bad dynamics in regards to the sound. The LFE is kind of non-existent.

Mine came with King Kong and I also had the SD version, so I tested the audio for a bit. What i found is that for me to have to same volume on a HD-DVD that I would have on SD DVD, I have to turn my Denon Receiver from say -20db to -15db. I don't think it's the player though. I think it's the software. When I put the SD version of King Kong in the HD-DVD player, it was just as loud as it would be on my Denon DVD-2900. There is no doubt that initially it sounds flat with little dynamic range. However, if you increase the volume, I think you will find it sounds pretty much like you would expect.

Scott

With my Kids' new Xbox 360, I was exploring the possility of going this route. What do you mean by LFE being non-existent? Actually, what is LFE?

LFE is definitely not non existant on mine. :) Like Doug said, LFE is what you hear/feel when Kong walks...

Scott

I got Apollo 13 and I did not adjust or turn the volume up like you suggested, I wanted to
see what I would get. During the launch seen on the SD version it rocks the house, but
I'm sure if I would have turned up the level, it would have been different.

As far as does it perform better, I dunno. I like what I have and at the price, it was NICE!

Microsoft is working on a patch for the audio problems, supposibly they are going to add the ability to convert all the the audio to a DTS stream so the full 1.5mb stream can be output. They have a full team dedicated to this project, so we should see some updates soon. All of my DVD backups are on DVD-R, all of mine have worked to this point. I have tried the ones on cheapo Phillips DVD-R and quality Fuji DVD-R. Both played with no issues. I am very impressed with the player so far. Once the audio problems get worked out it will be a really good bargain. Wife got me Chronicles of Ridick for christmas and it is an awesome display for HD-DVD.

LFE is definitely not non existant on mine. :) Like Doug said, LFE is what you hear/feel when Kong walks...

Scott

I just threw in Kong for a Demo for someone. I jacked up the volume and the LFE
was definately noticeable for the Kong vs. T-Rex fight.

I'll keep messing with it. Still a good bargain for those of us sitting on the sideline
waiting for the fight to be settled.

I am a newbie to OTA HD. I have DirecTV now and am contemplating haivng them come do the upgrade thing.... I bought a TERK non-amplified indoor antenna, and can get everything except for KDNL 30-1 on that. So then I buy the TERK HDTVo and stick it in the attic, now I get everything BUT KMOV 4-1..... I am looking at the tower map froem prev in this thread and they all (towers) look fairly close together, is the signal that narrow? Any other solutions to try before I shell out the $$ to DTV?

p.s. I am in Belleville Ill, relatively flat terrain, no large buildings

Hi All,
My duaghter has just moved to the Kansas City area and she wants to get a Dish satellite with HD and a DVR. Since I am a cable susbscriber I don't know anything about satellite systems. Should she just call the national number or are there local reps where she might get a better deal or terms?
Thanks,
pwsher

Microsoft is working on a patch for the audio problems, supposibly they are going to add the ability to convert all the the audio to a DTS stream so the full 1.5mb stream can be output. They have a full team dedicated to this project, so we should see some updates soon. All of my DVD backups are on DVD-R, all of mine have worked to this point. I have tried the ones on cheapo Phillips DVD-R and quality Fuji DVD-R. Both played with no issues. I am very impressed with the player so far. Once the audio problems get worked out it will be a really good bargain. Wife got me Chronicles of Ridick for christmas and it is an awesome display for HD-DVD.

So you're saying your Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on will play DVD-R's? I tried probably 10 different ones from Sony, Memorex, Verbatim, and Fuji on mine and none played. :( The only thing I could get to play was DVD+R's.

Scott

I am a newbie to OTA HD. I have DirecTV now and am contemplating haivng them come do the upgrade thing.... I bought a TERK non-amplified indoor antenna, and can get everything except for KDNL 30-1 on that. So then I buy the TERK HDTVo and stick it in the attic, now I get everything BUT KMOV 4-1..... I am looking at the tower map froem prev in this thread and they all (towers) look fairly close together, is the signal that narrow? Any other solutions to try before I shell out the $$ to DTV?

p.s. I am in Belleville Ill, relatively flat terrain, no large buildings
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx
After you lock on to your Zip Code, going to the Street Level Map will show you the individual tower locations.

You should be able to accomplish this without DTV. It is probably just a matter of probing, and getting your OTA antenna pointed correctly. If you don't have one already, an inexpensive compass is very helpful.

You cannot be off by very much already. At 18 miles, 2, 4, 5, 11 & 30 are within a few degrees of each other. Check Antennaweb...but I'd guess the Bellville heading is just about due-west, around 270-280°.

Hi All,
My duaghter has just moved to the Kansas City area and she wants to get a Dish satellite with HD and a DVR. Since I am a cable susbscriber I don't know anything about satellite systems. Should she just call the national number or are there local reps where she might get a better deal or terms?
Thanks,
pwsher
Pwsher,
You should remain direct with DISH. You can do the entire order online, via their website, or by calling them. There is an area of their site called "DishBuilder." It's interactive, easy to understand and navigate. You select your receivers, programming, and place the order.

As a rule, retailers, do not always provide the same "deals" DISH does.

So you're saying your Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on will play DVD-R's? I tried probably 10 different ones from Sony, Memorex, Verbatim, and Fuji on mine and none played. :( The only thing I could get to play was DVD+R's.

Scott


Yes I always use -R because my modded xbox always played happier with them. I just finished watching a movie that was burned on a Phillips -R. All of mine are done with shrink or decryptor and then burned with Nero. I just tryed a +R and +R DL and they both worked as well. I wonder if Microsoft used more than one drive in these units. I thought they were all Toshiba's but maybe firmware switched along the way.
Maybe you have a bad unit that the laser is a bit out of adjustment. Maybe we can get some others on the forum here to try there units with -R's to see what kind of results they have. Very strange.

Yes I always use -R because my modded xbox always played happier with them. I just finished watching a movie that was burned on a Phillips -R. All of mine are done with shrink or decryptor and then burned with Nero. I just tryed a +R and +R DL and they both worked as well. I wonder if Microsoft used more than one drive in these units. I thought they were all Toshiba's but maybe firmware switched along the way.
Maybe you have a bad unit that the laser is a bit out of adjustment. Maybe we can get some others on the forum here to try there units with -R's to see what kind of results they have. Very strange.

My unit was made in China. How bout yours? Thanks for the info, and yes, I hope others will chime in on this.

Scott

I don't have the XBox 360, but I do have a Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (with an A1 gathering dust at the moment). The A2 and the A1 play DVD-R's and DVD+R's, as well as DVD+R double layer discs. I've never seen DVD-R DL discs for sale anywhere, so I can't comment on those. I know for a fact that some double layer discs burned with either cheap media or any number of good DL burners, won't play well in the machines. Sometimes it's the disc and sometimes it's the burner. Single layer DVD R's usually don't present much of a problem, no matter which burner you use. Although Toshiba doesn't officially list DVD+R's as supported for either player, that's all I've ever used and so far it hasn't presented a problem. The A2 does seem to have intermittent problems playing some discs near the start of a burn without skipping. It's rare.

I watched King Kong tonight, and I thought the LFE was relatively weak through most of the film. Certainly this isn't a disc to use if you want to show off that thumpin' new sub.

BTW, an ex-student of mine spent 2 years in New Zealand doing 3D animation for Kong. I don't think it rates at the top of his list of favorite films he's worked on. I'd guess that Titanic, Apollo 13 and Star Wars The Phantom Menace all top it, for a variety of reasons.

I don't have the XBox 360, but I do have a Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (with an A1 gathering dust at the moment). The A2 and the A1 play DVD-R's and DVD+R's, as well as DVD+R double layer discs. I've never seen DVD-R DL discs for sale anywhere, so I can't comment on those. I know for a fact that some double layer discs burned with either cheap media or any number of good DL burners, won't play well in the machines. Sometimes it's the disc and sometimes it's the burner. Single layer DVD R's usually don't present much of a problem, no matter which burner you use. Although Toshiba doesn't officially list DVD+R's as supported for either player, that's all I've ever used and so far it hasn't presented a problem. The A2 does seem to have intermittent problems playing some discs near the start of a burn without skipping. It's rare.

I watched King Kong tonight, and I thought the LFE was relatively weak through most of the film. Certainly this isn't a disc to use if you want to show off that thumpin' new sub.

BTW, an ex-student of mine spent 2 years in New Zealand doing 3D animation for Kong. I don't think it rates at the top of his list of favorite films he's worked on. I'd guess that Titanic, Apollo 13 and Star Wars The Phantom Menace all top it, for a variety of reasons.

Wow, lucky student. Those would all be fun films to be involved with.

I don't have a 360 HD-DVD either. I went with the HD-A1 (open box $300) cause I wanted HDMI/analog out and DVD-Audio support. I also got a PS3 20GB for the BluRay side. Got em both hooked up to a Yamaha 1600 via HDMI. I have a Panasonic AE-700 & 106" screen for display. I really like the PQ & AQ of the HD-A1, it's just a little slow and "clunky". OTOH, the PS3 (also got the BD remote) is supprisingly responsive. Power up in 30 Seconds and movie loads about the same. The Audio/Video qualityof both units is very close, though I have yet to side-by-side the same movie.

One thing I haver noticed is the PS3 is more forgiving if I switch to a different HDMI source while watching movies. I can flip to my Sat box to check scores etc using the PS3. If I do that with the A1 I lose HDMI sync and I have to restart the movie (open/close the tray)

Funny thing. I have yet to buy a game for the PS3. The XBOX360 is currently lightyears ahead of the PS3 for hardware/software support. I got the 360 Wireless Racing wheel for XMas. PG3 w/ Force Feedback is way too much fun. I think I'm gonna have to activate my XBOX live account...

I plan to stick with the players I have until a dual format player comes out.

Joe,
Was the upgrade to the A2 worth it?

Dave

Dish install update.
Was scheduled for 12/24. Guy came out and said his ladder was stolen so he could not get on my roof. rescheduled for 12/26.
Showed up 12/26 at 8:30 and realized he had a broken ladder. This time he called someone because he figured I would be pissed with a second reschedule. Worked, worked, worked. Had it all installed and nothing was working. Rechecked everything and finally realized he did not screw in the cables into the DPP44. Finally at 3:30 we have a working system. YA!!! By then my wife was pissed off and tired of waiting. So as soon as they left, I had to leave. Only had 2 minutes to see the food channel in HD...MMMMM. Overall I am happy.

My HD-TiVo has rebooted about three or four times since receiving 6.3a.

Still waiting on B.

***EDIT: I should add that I NEVER had a reboot prior to the 6.3 update.

Hadn't received 6.3b as of Monday night, but my HD-Tivo rebooted yesterday evening--then I forgot to check if the update had been installed, so I'll look tonight.

Maybe somebody can help me with a little problem. I just picked up a new AV receiver (Marantz SR 7001) which has HDMI switching capabilities. I don't have a new DVD player yet, and my current DVD player only has component out. I had previously connected the DVD player to the component in of my display (Sony XBR50 SXRD). The display was set to handle any 4:3 content as "Normal" (that is, display it in 4:3 format). It seemed to recognize 16:9 or 2.35:1 content just fine, as it would display it in the appropriate format.

However, when I hook the DVD player into the receiver and then output to the TV via HDMI, the TV is now displaying BOTH 16:9 AND 4:3 content in 4:3 format (thus, squeezing widescreen movies into a 4:3 fram). This is with the TV still set in "Normal" mode. When I switch the TV to handle 4:3 content as "Full", it then displays both 16:9 and 4:3 content in a 16:9 frame. So, before I got the receiver, the TV was recognizing the DVD player's signal appropriately, but now it is not and I have to manually change the TV format, depending on the disc content. Any thoughts as to why this may be and how I can fix it?

I just threw in Kong for a Demo for someone. I jacked up the volume and the LFE
was definately noticeable for the Kong vs. T-Rex fight.

I'll keep messing with it. Still a good bargain for those of us sitting on the sideline
waiting for the fight to be settled.

In this sort of bizarre opinion piece, the HD disk format wars are over.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36574

So you're saying your Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on will play DVD-R's? I tried probably 10 different ones from Sony, Memorex, Verbatim, and Fuji on mine and none played. :( The only thing I could get to play was DVD+R's.

Scott

Scott,

Sometimes the software used to BURN the disk is more important than whether the DVD is + or -. For example, I have a friend whose DVD player would play all my minus DVDs yet would not play any of hers. While we both had the same brand burner, I was using Roxio while she was using a Shareware product. After changing to Roxio or Nero, her issues vanished.

Perhaps this is why your player will not read your DVDs'. Try making a copy of a problem DVD with different burning software.

I'm a frequent reader, but rarely post, but wanted to let everyone know that Doug (aka DroptheRemote) from clearlyresolved has another satisfied customer. This is for anyone who still hasn't decided whether or not to get their TV calibrated by Doug.

I have a 3 1/2 year old Hitachi CRT RPTV and have been considering getting a new flat panel display, but wanted to give it a chance and have it calibrated.

Last weekend, Doug came over and spent 6 1/2 hours with my display. He first checked the grayscale, which was WAY off. He then took off the protective screen cover - significantly reducing glare and improving the picture on its own, then focused the CRT's, cleaned them, refined the geometry and convergence, set proper brightness, contrast, and sharpness, improved the grayscale for my Moxi HD input and Oppo 970 DVD player, and fixed the color decoder.

I thought the picture on HD was good before and that the DVD player's picture was good, but I never really got any significant improvement with the upconverting on my Oppo player.

Well, now the HD channels on my Charter Moxi look much more lifelike, and the picture from my Oppo DVD player looks much more filmlike. Not unexpectedly, the greatest improvements were for DVD and HD inputs, but there is also a significant improvement in SD channels.

Anyone considering having their display calibrated by Doug should contact him immediately. The results are well worth the investment.

Thanks, Doug!

Scott,

Sometimes the software used to BURN the disk is more important than whether the DVD is + or -. For example, I have a friend whose DVD player would play all my minus DVDs yet would not play any of hers. While we both had the same brand burner, I was using Roxio while she was using a Shareware product. After changing to Roxio or Nero, her issues vanished.

Perhaps this is why your player will not read your DVDs'. Try making a copy of a problem DVD with different burning software.

I'll try that. I used Nero on all mine. I will try again using Imgburn.

Scott

Maybe somebody can help me with a little problem. I just picked up a new AV receiver (Marantz SR 7001) which has HDMI switching capabilities. I don't have a new DVD player yet, and my current DVD player only has component out. I had previously connected the DVD player to the component in of my display (Sony XBR50 SXRD). The display was set to handle any 4:3 content as "Normal" (that is, display it in 4:3 format). It seemed to recognize 16:9 or 2.35:1 content just fine, as it would display it in the appropriate format.

However, when I hook the DVD player into the receiver and then output to the TV via HDMI, the TV is now displaying BOTH 16:9 AND 4:3 content in 4:3 format (thus, squeezing widescreen movies into a 4:3 fram). This is with the TV still set in "Normal" mode. When I switch the TV to handle 4:3 content as "Full", it then displays both 16:9 and 4:3 content in a 16:9 frame. So, before I got the receiver, the TV was recognizing the DVD player's signal appropriately, but now it is not and I have to manually change the TV format, depending on the disc content. Any thoughts as to why this may be and how I can fix it?

You said you didn't buy a new DVD player yet, so are you still using component out of the DVD? If so, I guess the Marantz is upconverting to HDMI? The only thing you changed really was HDMI, so this obviously has something to do with it. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in to help you. Marantz makes a sweet receiver. I have an old SR7000 sitting around collecting dust.

Scott

You said you didn't buy a new DVD player yet, so are you still using component out of the DVD? If so, I guess the Marantz is upconverting to HDMI? The only thing you changed really was HDMI, so this obviously has something to do with it. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in to help you. Marantz makes a sweet receiver. I have an old SR7000 sitting around collecting dust.

Scott

Yep, it's component out from the DVD player to the AVR, and then HDMI out to the TV. It's not that big a deal, because I'm going to get a DVD player with HDMI out anyways, and I suppose that'll take care of the program. But I did want to keep the old DVD player so that I can use it to play my videos for my son (most of which are 4:3)--I don't want to have to keep changing the settings on the TV to make the 4:3 picture look normal.

I'll try that. I used Nero on all mine. I will try again using Imgburn.

Scott

Good luck. I was hoping you were using no-name software. Nero should not be giving you problems. My theory may not hold in your case.

Joe,
Was the upgrade to the A2 worth it?

Dave

It was for the speed alone. It's so much faster than the A1. It doesn't have analog out, though, but I wasn't using that anyway. I use optical and will until I upgrade my AVR to HDMI down the line.

I'm a frequent reader, but rarely post, but wanted to let everyone know that Doug (aka DroptheRemote) from clearlyresolved has another satisfied customer. This is for anyone who still hasn't decided whether or not to get their TV calibrated by Doug.

I have a 3 1/2 year old Hitachi CRT RPTV and have been considering getting a new flat panel display, but wanted to give it a chance and have it calibrated.

Last weekend, Doug came over and spent 6 1/2 hours with my display. He first checked the grayscale, which was WAY off. He then took off the protective screen cover - significantly reducing glare and improving the picture on its own, then focused the CRT's, cleaned them, refined the geometry and convergence, set proper brightness, contrast, and sharpness, improved the grayscale for my Moxi HD input and Oppo 970 DVD player, and fixed the color decoder.

I thought the picture on HD was good before and that the DVD player's picture was good, but I never really got any significant improvement with the upconverting on my Oppo player.

Well, now the HD channels on my Charter Moxi look much more lifelike, and the picture from my Oppo DVD player looks much more filmlike. Not unexpectedly, the greatest improvements were for DVD and HD inputs, but there is also a significant improvement in SD channels.

Anyone considering having their display calibrated by Doug should contact him immediately. The results are well worth the investment.

Thanks, Doug!Jay,

Thanks for the endorsement -- I definitely appreciate it.

In fact, your review was so thorough I'm tempted to just copy/paste it and send it to back you instead of writing up my standard Calibration Report. ;)

Thanks again.

I bought a Tivo Series 3 about 2 weeks ago. Charter came out and installed the cablecards in about 30 minutes. Excellent job! Everything works great.

I noticed for the past several days that Showtime HD is not showing up on my set. I have the program guide data and all but no picture.

I tried doing the guded setup over and still no Showtime HD. I have all the other Showtime channels from Charter but no HD. I also have HBO HD.

Is anyone else having problems with Showtime HD from Charter?

In this sort of bizarre opinion piece, the HD disk format wars are over.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36574

I believe I have already invested in the writer's winner :D

I bought a Tivo Series 3 about 2 weeks ago. Charter came out and installed the cablecards in about 30 minutes. Excellent job! Everything works great.


They really have to come out and install them?

Is there a service charge for the install or is it mainly to ensure they work? I'm just
wondering how envolved it would be.

They really have to come out and install them?

Is there a service charge for the install or is it mainly to ensure they work? I'm just
wondering how envolved it would be.

Its my understanding they have to call in and activate the cards just like any cable box / Moxi, thus insuring us stupid consumers dont' do it ourselves.

Doug,
My sister is about to buy a 50" HDTV. She was looking at DLP & Plasma. Primary use will be TV & Movies.

Any recommendations on technologies or brands.

Thanks
Dave

I know that Doug has a lot of experience in this field, but, I would like to add my .02 on this subject. Every product has its pro's and con's. Plasma's can hang on the wall, have good side angle viewing, may or may not have a better picture than a DLP. A DLP is fatter ~18" deep, it is not as good as a plasma/LCD on side angle viewing, but you can replace the light bulb if it gets dim, there are good deals going on them now, etc. I am sure there are many more pro's and con's out there. I think the biggest thing is you get what you pay for. There is a difference between a $900 dollar 42" Plasma and a $3000 42" plasma. I think the best thing to do is lay out your requirements (or wants), set a budget, then go shopping. You can get a great LCD, great Plasma, great DLP. You can get a piece of junk LCD, Plasma, or DLP. Plus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A great picture to you may be terrible to a videophile. If that great picture fit your budget, goes well in your viewing room, and is easy for you to work, then you have a winner.

My vote is for DLP if your goal is screen bang for the buck. Plasmas at sizes that will allow you appreciate the 720p or 1080p image are going to be quite expensive. American had a 57" DLP by Mitsubishi that is very cool for about $2,150. That's a 1080p set with really good specs and one of the coolest remotes I've ever seen. Actually, the TV is what does the learning. You plug in a source and it asks you to identify it. Then, you can teach the TV (not the remote) all the codes you need to operate it. It then works pretty much like a Harmony. Hit a single button to get everything working - i.e. it turns on all the devices required to watch a DVD, switches to all the appropriate inputs and off you go. And the IR sensor is in the TV, so you can point to anywhere on the screen.

I have a couple of LCD's in the bedrooms for casual watching, but I don't like the black level on LCD's in general. LCD's are low cost options in smaller viewing sizes, but as you get bigger plasma gets cheaper than LCD.

IMHO bigger is better when it comes to HD. I watched small screens all my life until I got a projector. Now I can never go back to a small screen. If you can control light, a front projector is a great way to go. If you can't, a rear projector will sill give you much better bang for the buck, and I think DLP is the best option in rear projectors (although a lot of people would argue for a technology like SxRD or HD-ILA, which are variations on LCD). They can be extremely impressive, too, but I still prefer the black level and contrast of DLP. The one thing you have to be careful about with DLP is rainbow effect (RBE). Some people get headaches from RBE, but it's a very small percentage of the population. If you're one of the unlucky ones, though, it's a serious problem. I've never had anyone in my home theater who's had an adverse reaction to my DLP projectors. The only way to tell is to watch for at least an hour or so. You should know for sure by then.

In this sort of bizarre opinion piece, the HD disk format wars are over.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36574
"sort of bizarre" :eek:

Nonetheless....an interesting read...thanks Mo :)

Doug,
My sister is about to buy a 50" HDTV. She was looking at DLP & Plasma. Primary use will be TV & Movies.

Any recommendations on technologies or brands.Dave,

I like both plasma and DLP, so it's sort of a toss-up. I agree with Joe's point about DLP being better "bang for the buck" in terms of screen size, but I think that is somewhat dependent on the maximum screen size you're looking at. At 50 inches and below, I think plasma is the better bargain, but above 50 inches and it's all DLP (given those two choices).

I think black levels on certain brand plasmas are better than DLP rear projection. While DLP black levels are great on a front projection system, there's still some challenges to be met with bulb-based rear-projection displays and black levels. I'm not saying that DLP is awful in this area, but I think the better plasmas have an edge here.

As for brand recommendations, on the plasma I would suggest either Panasonic or Pioneer, and with the DLPs I think Samsung is clearly the best choice.

Although Pioneer tends to get all the publicity and market buzz (never underestimate the power of the Elite brand and its halo effect), the Panasonic plasmas have had a significantly better picture for the past few years -- the Pannys have particularly excelled on black level, which is very important for ultimate picture quality. The new, current model Pioneers are much improved from previous years, and they are now pretty much neck and neck with the Panasonics. But then, the Panasonics still have a significant price edge, even against the non-Elite models.

The other interesting aspect of the Pansonic plasmas is that there are two lines -- the consumer models and then the commercial/professional models. The last time I checked, BB, CC and UE only sell the consumer Panasonic plasmas, while Costco and many online dealers offer the commercial/professional models.

I personally prefer the commecial/professional models, in part because they can be cheaper as they're sold on a modular basis -- the commercial/professional models have no ATSC tuner, no speakers, no stand, and only basic analog connections (composite, S-Video and two components inputs). But all of those things are available as options, including speakers (the electronics for speakers are included in the base model) and there are optional "blade" slide-in cards that allow you to add digital connections.

For someone who just wants a turnkey solution, the consumer models are the way to go, but for someone who is looking for a more tailored solution, the commercial/pro models may be the better buy, depending on if you're wall mounting, if you need speakers, etc. FWIW, I also like the physical appearance of the commercial/professional models better -- the consumer models are silver and sort of in-your-face busy while the commercial/pro models are a muted rust gray and very minimalist.

Finally, the Panansonic commercial/professional models are more adjustable from a calibration standpoint, so if that's a consideration, it should be factored in. The consumer models do calibrate very well, but they're not quite as flexible as the commercial models, lacking gamma controls, color decoding and color isolation controls.

On the DLP side, I don't think anyone has done more with the DLP technology than Samsung, particularly in the rear-projection format. I know that some buyers don't like the physical appears of the Samsungs, but there's really no comparision in terms of picture quality if they're set up correctly. And again, this is where Samsung really excels, as their DLP sets are well-designed, as evidenced by the fact that they include and document the service menu controls needed to achieve accurate images. Whenever I see TVs that CAN'T be adjusted for accuracy because controls have been omitted, it causes me concern beyond picture quality -- simply put, what other corners have been cut?

Obviously, the calibration angle weighs in for me when I look at the various options, but I do appreciate that doesn't matter to everyone (a pity for me, but that's the reality). So, if your sister sees something that she likes the look of on the display floor and it isn't a Panasonic or Pioneer plasma or a Samsung DLP, she should go ahead and buy it, particularly if she's not interested in the optimizing picture quality.

Also a general point about resolution: Most plasma (and LCD) displays use computer-oriented resolutions that are a holdover from their computer world heritage. Plasmas are now coming out in 1080p versions, but the price premium is pretty large and I don't really think it matters significantly until you're looking at a display that's at least 65 inches or larger. On DLP, if the difference between 720p and 1080p is only a couple hundred dollars, and you're not going for the 70+ inch models, the 720p models are still worth considering, particularly if you're not expecting this to be a primary display for the next 10 years.

Hope that some of that is useful.

Yes they do have to come out and install. It is a simple procedure, but none the less they do come out to install. the cost was $35.00

Charter has a website dedicated to DVR self install (http://www.charter.com/Visitors/Support.aspx?SupportArticleID=27) but just ask to do a self install and wait for their rep to stop laughing. I pointed out the webpage and they said it must be something new. Yeah - sure. Install for the DVR or cable card is $35.00. They have you over a barrel. It's their produst and their rules. Hope that helps.

Hey, Doug, do you know anything about the Mitsubishi WD-57732 57" DLP rear projector (or that series)? It's the one I was referring to earlier. Some friends are thinking about getting into HDTV and that set looks as though it has some really good, newbie-friendly features. Any cautions about the Mitsubishi DLP product lines?

Is anyone else having problems with Showtime HD from Charter?

It is coming through okay on my S3. You may need to call Charter and have them reprovision your cablecards. I wasn't getting the extended basic channels on mine after they were initially installed.

Doug,
My sister is about to buy a 50" HDTV. She was looking at DLP & Plasma. Primary use will be TV & Movies.

Any recommendations on technologies or brands.

Thanks
Dave

She can buy wherever she wants, but I strongly recommend she checks out Ultimate Electronics. When I bought my 50" Sammy DLP I was also considering a Sony LCD. They were both in a small viewing area and I was able to really compare them. I was able to sit on a small couch and look directly at the sets. Unlike the racks at CC & BB one stands in front of.

She needs to also measure how far back her viewing distance will be and calculate the screen size she needs. Too small of a screen and you lose the detail if back too far. She needs to take her tape measure with her to the store.

I was really able to notice the screen door effect on LCD sets and I found it very distracting. It seemed like fast motion was a bit blurred as well. Luckily, I don't see rainbows. Btw, the color wheels are much faster now than before but some folks see occasional rainbows.

Finally, I would suggest she go look at some sets and decide if she wants to go plasma, etc and then use the owner threads here at AVS and research some of the pros and cons of the exact models of the set(s) she is considering. Then go look again and shop for the best prices online. Then go into the store and get the price nailed down and shop that price at the next store. I bought my set about a week before the Super Bowl and I got a great price due to the sale. I also haggled and got a stand with a bunch off it as well. (I ended up returning it as there are much better prices online). I ended up ordering a Bush stand that looks like furniture. I saved enough money that I was able to afford to have Doug calibrate my set.

Edit: I was not able to buy my set at UE as they were out of stock and on order. I ended up buying mine at CC. I monitored the prices at the various stores online for a month and when CC dropped their own price first I was able to get 110% difference refunded back. It was a little less than $300 IIRC.

Thanks Bubba,

I am on the chat feature on their website discussing the issue. Start with me being informed that they do not support Tivo. He now has my information and will check on their end.

I know that Doug has a lot of experience in this field, but, I would like to add my .02 on this subject. Every product has its pro's and con's. Plasma's can hang on the wall, have good side angle viewing, may or may not have a better picture than a DLP. A DLP is fatter ~18" deep, it is not as good as a plasma/LCD on side angle viewing, but you can replace the light bulb if it gets dim, there are good deals going on them now, etc. I am sure there are many more pro's and con's out there. I think the biggest thing is you get what you pay for. There is a difference between a $900 dollar 42" Plasma and a $3000 42" plasma. I think the best thing to do is lay out your requirements (or wants), set a budget, then go shopping. You can get a great LCD, great Plasma, great DLP. You can get a piece of junk LCD, Plasma, or DLP. Plus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A great picture to you may be terrible to a videophile. If that great picture fit your budget, goes well in your viewing room, and is easy for you to work, then you have a winner.

Like Joe said. DLP is the best bang for the buck out there. I own a FP DLP, RP DLP, LCD's, RP CRT, and plasma. Every TV has its place in any particular room. For a main room TV I would suggest RP DLP.

Scott

As for brand recommendations, on the plasma I would suggest either Panasonic or Pioneer, and with the DLPs I think Samsung is clearly the best choice.

Although Pioneer tends to get all the publicity and market buzz (never underestimate the power of the Elite brand and its halo effect), the Panasonic plasmas have had a significantly better picture for the past few years -- the Pannys have particularly excelled on black level, which is very important for ultimate picture quality. The new, current model Pioneers are much improved from previous years, and they are now pretty much neck and neck with the Panasonics. But then, the Panasonics still have a significant price edge, even against the non-Elite models.


I've been looking at plasmas and LCDs in the 38-42" size. I'm a fan of Panasonic, but have noticed their plasma is not as good as many others. In recent shopping, Panasonic image was not as detailed as the others (soft edges and/or bleeding) and seemed like maybe the contrast was set way too high. When I get more serious, I may try some readjusting in the store to see if I can improve image, but if I can't I'm going to choose something else.

Thanks for all your input. We went to UE last nights and checked out their selection. I have to say I was pretty impressed with both the Plasma and DLP sets. Even the 1080p LCD's look pretty good, though I could tell their refresh rate and black level were not up to snuff for movies or sports.

She lives in Houston and is moving to Dallas next month, so she does not know what her room conditions will be like. But she's not planning to buy until she finds a condo. Since she is expecting to have less than 1500 Sq ft, I think she is leaning toward plasma. For plasma she would have to go 720p. However, the prices on the 1080p DLP's are almost too good to pass up. Decisions, decisions...

I also noticed some sets that didn't look quite right, so I went to picture controls and wouldn't you know, contrast was set to 100. ugh.

I'm not sure if they have UE in Dallas, but I did tell her no matter what she gets or where she gets it, she will want to get it ISF calibrated. She has offered to fly me down to help her move/set it up and do initial calibrations for the break-in period.

Dave

I think she is leaning toward plasma. For plasma she would have to go 720p. However, the prices on the 1080p DLP's are almost too good to pass up. Decisions, decisions...


Dave


Why is that? My plasma does 1080i.

Not much (of anything) to watch in 1080p, you can probably save some money getting a 1080i plasma that looks wonderful.

I live about 200+ miles NNE of St Louis (Putnam County, Illinois), and I have a D* H20-100 receiver. Over the Christmas weekend, something very strange happened. As I was was flipping through the guide, I was VERY surprised to find KMOV in my guide. I tuned to the channel, and sat and watched Sunday Morning with Charles Osgood, but it didn't last too long. It comes and goes, but it is still in the guide. My question is: Just how strong is KMOV's signal??? As I left this morning, I wasn't able to watch it. :(

Thanks for any replies

Chris

Thanks for all your input. We went to UE last nights and checked out their selection. I have to say I was pretty impressed with both the Plasma and DLP sets. Even the 1080p LCD's look pretty good, though I could tell their refresh rate and black level were not up to snuff for movies or sports.

She lives in Houston and is moving to Dallas next month, so she does not know what her room conditions will be like. But she's not planning to buy until she finds a condo. Since she is expecting to have less than 1500 Sq ft, I think she is leaning toward plasma. For plasma she would have to go 720p. However, the prices on the 1080p DLP's are almost too good to pass up. Decisions, decisions...

I also noticed some sets that didn't look quite right, so I went to picture controls and wouldn't you know, contrast was set to 100. ugh.

I'm not sure if they have UE in Dallas, but I did tell her no matter what she gets or where she gets it, she will want to get it ISF calibrated. She has offered to fly me down to help her move/set it up and do initial calibrations for the break-in period.

Dave

Would your sister "see" the difference between 720p and 1080p? Personally, I'd go with whatever meets most of her needs regardless of wheter or not it will do 1080p.

Most all TV's in stores are set to 100% contrast for a few reasons.
1. Manufacturers want it that way.
2. Most all consumers have watched TV that way for decades, so it looks ok.
3. Most consumers "don't" touch the TV's in the store let alone adjust settings.
4. Most retailers "don't" adjust the TV's settings.
5. If a store did calibrate their TV's to proper settings, most people would think something was wrong with them and likely ask "why are the pictures so dark and fuzzy?"

In the end your sis' can't go wrong with DLP or Plasma. If she plays games, DLP is likely the best choice.

Scott

Why is that? My plasma does 1080i.

Not much (of anything) to watch in 1080p, you can probably save some money getting a 1080i plasma that looks wonderful.black,

We're talking about native resolution, not just the resolutions that the panel/display can accept.

As noted, most plasma and LCD displays (where flat panels, rear-projection and front projection) have traditionally used panels with native resolution of 1024x768 or 1366x1024, etc., all of which are native to no standard. But this isn't a huge deal -- just as with your plasma, a non-native signal (such as 1080i) is internally scaled to the panel/display's native resolution.

I live about 200+ miles NNE of St Louis (Putnam County, Illinois), and I have a D* H20-100 receiver. Over the Christmas weekend, something very strange happened. As I was was flipping through the guide, I was VERY surprised to find KMOV in my guide. I tuned to the channel, and sat and watched Sunday Morning with Charles Osgood, but it didn't last too long. It comes and goes, but it is still in the guide. My question is: Just how strong is KMOV's signal??? As I left this morning, I wasn't able to watch it. :(

Thanks for any repliesChris,

This probably has nothing to do with signal strength. Most likely you are a short-term beneficiary of what's known as the "tropo duct" effect. You can read more about this at Wikipedia in the link below (about one-quarter down the WP page):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropo_duct

Dave,

Let me know when your sister is in the market for calibration. I'd be happy to recommend some top-notch calibrators in the Houston area.

Dave,

Let me know when your sister is in the market for calibration. I'd be happy to recommend some top-notch calibrators in the Houston area.

Thanks Doug.
She'll already be moved to Dallas when she buys the TV. I'll let you know when the break in period is over, maybe one of the Houston ISF's is planning a road trip.

Chris,

This probably has nothing to do with signal strength. Most likely you are a short-term beneficiary of what's known as the "tropo duct" effect. You can read more about this at Wikipedia in the link below (about one-quarter down the WP page):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropo_duct

Thanks Doug, sounds like thats it. About the same time this happened, I was picking up channels from Indianapolis, Bloomington Indiana, Paducah KY, Cape Girardeau, Carbondale IL, Champaign/Urbana IL, Decatur IL, Springfield IL, and Milwaukee WI, but I was having trouble with my local (Peoria/Bloomington IL) channels. Thanks for your help.

Happy New Year :D

Chris

I'm not sure if they have UE in Dallas
Dave
There is a Frys in Dallas.....'nough said!

Has anyone purchased from frys.com?

I thought I was set on the Samsung HLS5687W, but they have the HLS6187W for cheaper than the 56".

Has anyone purchased from frys.com?
Their ratings are decidedly mixed:
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Fry_s_Electronics_Outpost

Update on my Xbox 360 HD-DVD player add-on not being able to play DVD-R's.

Well, that's not true since now I have found about 25 so far that mysteriously do play on it. This is so weird that some do and some don't. The ones that do are all Memorex brand made by Prodisc Inc. But, not all my Memorex made by Prodisc Inc. will play, so the search to find out the problem continues.

Scott

I'm not sure if they have UE in Dallas,

Dave

No, they closed all their Texas stores after the Movie Gallery Guy took over and they reorganized.

Scott

There is a Frys along the highway to DFW. I'm not that familiar with Dallas, so I don't know the Interstate number. I've been to that Frys twice.

I used to shop in the Frys in So Cal often. Its been a few years since I've been inside one, but I remember their HT viewing/demo area was size of a complete CC, which probably only accounted for 5% of their total floor-space.

Walking into a Frys, is like walking into Disneyland!

There is a Frys along the highway to DFW. I'm not that familiar with Dallas, so I don't know the Interstate number. I've been to that Frys twice.

I used to shop in the Frys in So Cal often. Its been a few years since I've been inside one, but I remember their HT viewing/demo area was size of a complete CC, which probably only accounted for 5% of their total floor-space.

Walking into a Frys, is like walking into Disneyland!

I miss Fry's. I worked practically across the street from one in Silicon Valley. It was like being a kid across the street from a candy store. In Phoenix there were two stores. One store was absolutely huge. It was handy for a number of things and hard to find PC parts.

I miss Fry's. I worked practically across the street from one in Silicon Valley.
I remember visiting the original Fry's in Sunnyvale. It was my understanding that it began as a food store, and was stocking just a few computer cables and connectors as a convenience. Computer chips on one side of the aisle, potato chips on the other. Plenty of "Jolt" cola!

I remember visiting the original Fry's in Sunnyvale. It was my understanding that it began as a food store, and was stocking just a few computer cables and connectors as a convenience. Computer chips on one side of the aisle, potato chips on the other. Plenty of "Jolt" cola!

That store closed fairly quick and the new store was opened around the corner on E. Arques in Sunnyvale.

They have many grocery stores now in Phoenix.

There is a Frys in Dallas.....'nough said!

I checked out Frys.com. Is this the same as the retail store? They have really good prices. I'll definately send her there for her purchase.

Thanks for everyones input.

Dave

I checked out Frys.com. Is this the same as the retail store? They have really good prices. I'll definately send her there for her purchase.

Thanks for everyones input.

Dave
Strange as it may seem, Frys did not operate any type of online site/store, for the longest time. I'd guess it has only been in the past 2-3 years they put up an online storefront. I always found it odd, a business so oriented towards electronics and computers, did not have any online storefront, yet their dial-up ISP service has been around since the early 90's, and still is. I've never done any comparison pricing between their B&M and online stores.

Each Frys store has a different theme. IIRC, the one in Dallas is a horse ranch theme. It's inundating. I always think of Frys when I'm in a BB or CC, and see that long row and vast selection of digital cameras and camcorders....then you're reminded....in Frys, that section is 2 shopping aisles long, as in the size of a Schnucks grocery store.

Fry's has had an online website for quite awhile now but it was always www.outpost.com. I go to Tempe AZ. twice a year for business and always stay at the hotel right by the Fry's there. There prices aren't always the best but they have such a huge selection of everything all in one store. I'll go in there for a small part and end up staying in there for 2 hours looking around. I wish we had one here.

Quick Comparison:
Panny 50" Plasma (TH-50PX60U)
CC - $2399.99 + shipping or Free p/u
Frys - $1947.00 Free Shipping
BB - $2659.99 + shipping or Free p/u

Their salespeople are commissioned. In the past, I've been able to negotiate better pricing when buying additional related items, TV and Audio receiver, etc.

Fry's has had an online website for quite awhile now but it was always www.outpost.com. I go to Tempe AZ. twice a year for business and always stay at the hotel right by the Fry's there. There prices aren't always the best but they have such a huge selection of everything all in one store. I'll go in there for a small part and end up staying in there for 2 hours looking around. I wish we had one here.
Jay,
Well...that explains it. Any idea why they chose to keep them separate all these years?

There's one outside Chicago...all this has me thinking road-trip :D

I don't know why they were seperate. I know outpost.com was around before Internet shopping became the big thing it is now.

I don't know why they were separate. I know outpost.com was around before Internet shopping became the big thing it is now.
Yes, I can remember Outpost being around forever, I think it was in that early surge around the time of Overstock, Egghead, and the likes, but until today, I never knew it was related to Frys.

I bought a Tivo Series 3 about 2 weeks ago. Charter came out and installed the cablecards in about 30 minutes. Excellent job! Everything works great.

I'm awaiting the arrival of my Tivo 3 as well and have been a bit apprehensive about the Charter service call aspect. Tell me: When you called and scheduled the cable card install, did you tell them they were for a Tivo3 or just said I "need two" and let it go at that?

Steve

Frys - $1947.00 Free Shipping
That's about right:
http://shop.resellerratings.com/pid-32053472/SB-2

It's been just within the last few weeks that outpost.com has started calling itself frys.com.

That's where I try to buy all the hard drives for my server. When they have a hard drive on sale, not even newegg can touch their price.

I told them I did not need the HD receiver since I had the Tivo. Just told them 2 cablecards. They had no problem with that.

Anyone having any issues with ESPN-HD via Charter tonight? My has been skipping/pixeling all night. Could hardly watch the bowl game that was on. No issues with other HD channels or any SD that I could find either.

I am having issues with Charter ESPN-HD as well. It started late last night after the bowl game. I just called Charter and they said there was an outaged here in St. Charles county somewhere. I am in the St. Peters/O'Fallon area.

Anyone know if this game will be broadcast in HD?