Analyst Cites Relatively Small DISH Price Bump -- Apart from HD Package

The following story is from today's SkyREPORT newsletter:
_____________________________________________________

Just before the turn of the new year, EchoStar Communications announced price increases across most of DISH Network's programming tiers. Not only are the satcaster's price hikes smaller than in previous years, some researchers have noted that the jumps are also significantly less than those of competing cable operators.

According to Bernstein Research's Craig Moffett, the average price increase across DISH's tiers settled at about 4 percent, whereas years prior the company bumped its rates closer to 6 percent. "The price increases come at a time when EchoStar's overall revenue growth is increasingly dependent of ARPU growth, with subscriber growth contributing less than ever before to total revenue growth," he said. "In the most recent quarter, for example, ARPU growth accounted for 50 percent of total growth for the first time."

But while these costs have slightly curbed, EchoStar has "standardized - and in some cases sharply increased - its HDTV pricing," the analyst said. According to the firm's research, the addition of HDTV will now be a flat $20 per month, over and above the basic price of other packages. "That compares to approximately $10 per month for most cable operators (some, like Cablevision, offer HDTV for no incremental charge), and $9.99 at DIRECTV."

Despite EchoStar currently offering more national HD programming than any other provider, Moffett said the increase puts the company at a sizable distance from its competitors.

"Satellite operators are at a significant cost disadvantage versus cable in offering HDTV (because of the cost of additional/replacement rooftop equipment, in addition to HDTV set-top boxes)," he said. "While charging more could help recoup higher costs, it could also discourage customers from upgrading, potentially driving them to cable."
_____________________________________________________

Reports Indicate Malone May Be Looking to Acquire VOOM, Starz

The following short item appeared in today's SkyREPORT newsletter:
_______________________________________________________

The New York Post reports the good Dr. Malone is angling to help the Dolans [who control Cablevision] go private by acquiring Rainbow - suggest[ing that] the offhand comments of the good Doctor that cooperation - especially in delivering Hi-Def signals - with EchoStar is more than mere lip service.

Rainbow owns, among some other excellent networks, VOOM. (Not to mention one terrific executive in Josh Sapan.) Dr. Malone's forte is leverage (not, as lots know, operations). Rainbow + Starz = More (let's even say significant) Leverage.
_______________________________________________________

Isn't a major part of the RSN HD question how many Blues or (more importantly to many of us) Cardinal games will be broadcast in HD by FSN MW? I think we would all agree there is little chance of D* or E* picking up FSN MW HD games if there are not many games being broadcast in HD. I cannot recall, but I know we had the schedule. How many Card games did FSN do in HD last year? Customers can yell all we want, but as long as D* and E* can say to us "You want us to go through all this effort so you can have X (insert very small number here) number of games in HD?" They can justifiably tell us it does not make financial sense. Isn't the first step to up the number of games in HD FSN MW is broadcasting? If so, what is our best course of action to put those wheels in motion? Maybe I am wrong here, input is welcomed.

deuces,

I'm sure the number of HD events comes into play, but I don't think it the entire explanation. I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think that FSN Midwest is bringing up the rear in the number of baseball HD broadcasts versus other markets.

I don't have definitive data on this, but I'm fairly certain that there are regional sports nets doing the same or less HD than FSN Midwest. Of course, there are a handful that are doing blanket HD coverage, such as NESN and YES, but I think those are probably still the exception rather than the rule.

On the other hand, I don't have any explanation for why most of the other regional sports nets on DirecTV were allocated space for MPEG-4 channels. Could it have something to do with the fact that FSN MW is a split regional, with separate localized feeds for the St. Louis and KC areas?

Dual Discs, Dual Players Look to Remedy Multi-format HD Issue

A couple of stories today from the TV Predictions newsletter on dual disc releases (one disc containing both HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of the same movie) and dual-format players:

LG to Sell Dual HDTV DVD Player (http://www.tvpredictions.com/dualdvd010407.htm)

Warner Bros. To Release Dual HDTV DVD (http://www.tvpredictions.com/warnerdvd010407.htm)

I think another reason FSN MW has for not pushing for more HD games is they know we are watching anyway. The Cardinals have quite a loyal fan base. I doubt they would believe us if we said "Since you aren't broadcasting this game in HD, I would rather go to espn.com to watch the Gamecast and cheer for the little red dots to run around the bases, instead of watching your SD broadcast."

I don't recall how many HD games FSN MW did last year (mostly because I didn't get to see them, lol). Has anyone seen a number for 2007 from FSN MW?

ps - It looks like the site outtages combined with the KMOV/Charter issue have us going through pages like Albert through Odalis Perez fastballs!

The thing that is so frustrating about this whole Charter/Belo/Sinclair deal is that we currently pay $7 for the HD package which includes HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, ESPNHD, TNTHD, MHD, and FSMW-HD (selected events). I know that I wouldn't bat an eye at paying $10 or $12 per month for the same package if it included CBS and ABC. That's $2.50/month per HD subscriber for each of those channels, which I'm assuming is more than Sinclair/Belo are asking for.

Maybe there is something I'm missing (i.e. Belo/Sinclair asking for payment based on total subcribers, not just HD), and I'm sure there would be a price point where I would cry uncle, but it seems like Charter could just pass on their cost to the customer and let us decide if we want the channel or not.

The thing that is so frustrating about this whole Charter/Belo/Sinclair deal is that we currently pay $7 for the HD package which includes HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, ESPNHD, TNTHD, MHD, and FSMW-HD (selected events). I know that I wouldn't bat an eye at paying $10 or $12 per month for the same package if it included CBS and ABC. That's $2.50/month per HD subscriber for each of those channels, which I'm assuming is more than Sinclair/Belo are asking for.

Maybe there is something I'm missing (i.e. Belo/Sinclair asking for payment based on total subcribers, not just HD), and I'm sure there would be a price point where I would cry uncle, but it seems like Charter could just pass on their cost to the customer and let us decide if we want the channel or not.


I think that is the problem that at least with Sinclair they are wanting a charge per subscriber, not per HD subscriber... Not sure on Belo... And if that is the case then Charter would have to increase everyones bill to divide up the costs just so that the small number of HD subscribers can get the HD feed. Thats probably the major reason why Charter hasn't gotten to an agreement because there is no way they could get away with only Charging us HD subscribers to cover the costs associated with each and every subscriber Charter has.

-Phatty

Dual Discs, Dual Players Look to Remedy Multi-format HD Issue

A couple of stories today from the TV Predictions newsletter on dual disc releases (one disc containing both HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of the same movie) and dual-format players:

LG to Sell Dual HDTV DVD Player (http://www.tvpredictions.com/dualdvd010407.htm)

Warner Bros. To Release Dual HDTV DVD (http://www.tvpredictions.com/warnerdvd010407.htm)


Arggggggg!!!!!!!

I hold out and hold out and hold out to see what developes in the format war.

I read not too long ago that their will not be a dual format player.

I see BD sales are not even close to HD-DVD.

All of the momentum is going to HD-DVD, so I say "what the heck" and get a HD-DVD player.

Now not only will they release dual format players, but also dual format HD-DVD's.

I'm so sick of this crap. Glad I only invested $135 for my xbox add-on. Hell, I've already spent more than that on DVD's. Honestly, after watching a few HD-DVD's, I can't even see a very big difference in quality anyway.

I think I'm convincing myself to take back the xbox, sell the 6 HD-DVD's I've bought and be done with it. :mad:

Rant over.

Scott

Charter has, in fact, pulled KMOV HD. The message says they are "termporarily" unable to provide the channel. Those who stick with Charter, will probably see this message for the next several years. Also, they "invite" viewers to watch the "high qualtiy digital" ...........channel 4.


What a wonderful option.
Wonderful...and with CSI on tonight....couldn't they wait until tomorrow? :mad:

I can't wait until next wednesday when I get to call Charter and tell them they s-u-c-k. Wednesday is the day Dish comes out. At least it's only week of no HD csi and football.

Wonderful...and with CSI on tonight....couldn't they wait until tomorrow? :mad:

I can't wait until next wednesday when I get to call Charter and tell them they s-u-c-k. Wednesday is the day Dish comes out. At least it's only week of no HD csi and football.



Yeah I called yesterday to bitch as well as remove the movie channels and such because my last contract had expired and jumped from 75 to 100 a month with taxes.... The women I spoke with had no clue CBS was being dropped so I told her where to find the article on stltoday.com. She said she would pass along my complaint to those that care because I made it clear when I called I was not willing to add any services or sign another contract because I had no clue how long I would put up with the lack of CBS...

She did end up hooking me up with pretty sweet deal though. Almost to sweet that I'm waiting for the online bill site to reflect this quote so that I can believe it. 61 a month for Moxi, HD & All the movie channels including tax for 6 months. I am surprised she let me jump directly from one promotion to another but it probably helped that I got a US call center instead of Mexico or whatever. Then again it wouldn't surprise me if that quote lacked the moxi charge or whatever because with rates going up every year I am surprised this deal is for less than my previous contract was for.


-Phatty

I think that is the problem that at least with Sinclair they are wanting a charge per subscriber, not per HD subscriber... Not sure on Belo...I believe that is correct.

And it appears that what Sinclair is seeking is 50 cents per subscriber per month.

http://www.sbgi.net/misc/cable.shtml

Charter has approximately 6 million customers and Sinclair claims it reaches approximately 22% of US households with one or more of it's channels. If we assume that Charter's exposure is 20% and apply that to Charter's 6 million customer base, that's potentially 1.2 million customers that would be used to calculate the 50 cents per subscriber charge.

That works out to $7.2 million annually.

But while these costs have slightly curbed, EchoStar has "standardized - and in some cases sharply increased - its HDTV pricing," the analyst said. According to the firm's research, the addition of HDTV will now be a flat $20 per month, over and above the basic price of other packages. "That compares to approximately $10 per month for most cable operators (some, like Cablevision, offer HDTV for no incremental charge), and $9.99 at DIRECTV."

Long time DISH HD subs....John, Joe...have we not always paid an additional $20.00/mo for the Dish HD package? Long before the metal packages were introduced? What am I missing?

When DISH introduced the metal HD packages, last year, the created an all-inclusive SD/HD package for one price. However, it was still based on the SD price-per-package + $20.00 for HD. Now they have gone back to pricing per SD package +$20.00 for HD, though there are slight increases in 3/4 SD packages. 2 @ $3.00/mo and 1 @ $10.00/mo (the top tier), HD fees-per-month have remained the same.

yeah, what he said...

Indeed, and a small ridgeline behind it with 75+ foot trees to boot.

To the north and east, I picked up Pittsburgh's CW affilaiate, and Dayton's ABC affilaiate Tuesday night...I love my CM 4228.

I believe that is correct.

And it appears that what Sinclair is seeking is 50 cents per subscriber per month.

http://www.sbgi.net/misc/cable.shtml

Charter has approximately 6 million customers and Sinclair claims it reaches approximately 22% of US households with one or more of it's channels. If we assume that Charter's exposure is 20% and apply that to Charter's 6 million customer base, that's potentially 1.2 million customers that would be used to calculate the 50 cents per subscriber charge.

That works out to $7.2 million annually.

What I don't get is broadcast TV has always been driven by advertising revenue. If you pull your HD feed from a cable system, people are bound to watch something else -- as someone stated here "I'll watch just about anything in HD!" Seems very foolish to me, and it seems the way for us consumers to break it is to start contacting Belo and Sinclairs advertising base.

Yes, getting these things worked out can be messy and disruptive in the short term, but the market is the only place where value can ultimately be determined fairly. The answer of fair compensation is not lurking in a spreadsheet at the FCC.

It *was* lurking as a line item in my budget years ago when I killed off my Charter subscription. Through a mix of OTA, internet, and DVD's from various sources, it has worked out well (after de-toxing).

One other thought on the Sinclair-Charter calculation above...

If you extrapolate from that basis and determine the maximum potential local stations carriage fee exposure a company such as Charter might face if all other broadcasters followed the Sinclair line, here's the back-of-the-envelope calculation.

If $7.2 million is the cost for 20% of Charter subscribers for receiving one Sinclair channel, the cost for all Charter subscribers (5x the Sinclair figure to account for the other 80% of Charter subs) receiving an average of five locals stations (also 5x instead of a single channel):

$7.2m x 5 x 5 = $180 million.

Wouldn't we all love to find that sort of change hiding between the sofa cushions?

What I don't get is broadcast TV has always been driven by advertising revenue. If you pull your HD feed from a cable system, people are bound to watch something else -- as someone stated here "I'll watch just about anything in HD!" Seems very foolish to me, and it seems the way for us consumers to break it is to start contacting Belo and Sinclairs advertising base.

Of course it seems "foolish." However, doesn't most everything Charter does seem foolish? They already loose advertising and subscriber dollars for not carrying ABC HD. Now they will loose even more money every month. The only way this makes sense at all is if the money they loose is less than it would cost to pay for ABC and CBS HD. Just when I think Charter can't get more stupid they do. The company, board of directors, and stockholders should all be ashamed.

Scott

What I don't get is broadcast TV has always been driven by advertising revenue. If you pull your HD feed from a cable system, people are bound to watch something else -- as someone stated here "I'll watch just about anything in HD!" Seems very foolish to me, and it seems the way for us consumers to break it is to start contacting Belo and Sinclairs advertising base.

Somewhat ironically, KMOV's website has an ad from American TV Appliance & Furniture for an entry into a drawing (registration on the KMOV website) to win a Samsung 56" DLP TV to "win a big TV for the Big Game" (Superbowl). I doubt American knows that the winner will not be able to watch the "big game" in HDTV on Charter. Of course they may not care either.

Don't you just love it when companies (Charter, Belo, Sinclair) use their customers/viewers as pawns for negotiation purposes? The disdain these companies have for providing a service to their customers is only slightly outweighed by their need to make as much money as possible. I believe companies need to be profitable, but the licenses of these stations state that they are granted "in the public interest." If profitability is a problem, maybe Belo will take the same steps as Sinclair and drop local news as well. They can probably make more money with sindicated programing or infomercials. Rant over... :eek:

I keep forgetting to say this. I happened to flip the Rams game on last Sunday and
Dan McCloughlin (sp?) was doing the Play by Play. I don't really care for him when he does
the Cardinals games, but I thought he did a really good job on the football game. It would
be nice to hear him do some more games. He has lost time to fill by chatting so I guess that
is why I thought he did a good job.

Of course it seems "foolish." However, doesn't most everything Charter does seem foolish? They already loose advertising and subscriber dollars for not carrying ABC HD. Now they will loose even more money every month. The only way this makes sense at all is if the money they loose is less than it would cost to pay for ABC and CBS HD. Just when I think Charter can't get more stupid they do. The company, board of directors, and stockholders should all be ashamed.

Scott


I was actually talking about Belo and Sinclair, not Charter. Of course we'll start talking about national advertising vs local advertising, so .... never mind :-)

It looks like the Tivo Season Pass issues are pretty wide spread at the Tivo Community (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=333326&page=2&pp=30).

People are speculating that there is an issue with the Directv guide data.
Some people with 3.15 are even having trouble.

Just an FYI, watch your To Do Lists if you have anything important coming up ;)

Good luck,
Token

...People are speculating that there is an issue with the Directv guide data.

Good luck,
Token

I don't have Tivo, but I have been having some issues with my DirecTV guide for a while now. Seems like the time is off by about 1 minute which causes me to miss the intro to certain TV shows.

Anybody else notice this?

I don't have Tivo, but I have been having some issues with my DirecTV guide for a while now. Seems like the time is off by about 1 minute which causes me to miss the intro to certain TV shows.

Anybody else notice this?

My Wife notices that on certain channels, but I can't remember which ones right now. Pisses her off to no end too. Makes it hard to Tivo.

Scott

You can't set it to start like a minute or two early and end a little late like the Moxi?

Yeah, you can.

You can't set it to start like a minute or two early and end a little late like the Moxi?

Yes, it can be set. The trouble is if you are recording two one hour shows that started at 8 and want to record a little before 9 you can't. I always set it to record longer for Cardinal games.

Yes, it can be set. The trouble is if you are recording two one hour shows that started at 8 and want to record a little before 9 you can't. I always set it to record longer for Cardinal games.

Bingo! That's what pisses her off!

Scott

Dual Discs, Dual Players Look to Remedy Multi-format HD Issue

A couple of stories today from the TV Predictions newsletter on dual disc releases (one disc containing both HD DVD and Blu-ray versions of the same movie) and dual-format players:

LG to Sell Dual HDTV DVD Player (http://www.tvpredictions.com/dualdvd010407.htm)

Warner Bros. To Release Dual HDTV DVD (http://www.tvpredictions.com/warnerdvd010407.htm)

The Warner disc uses a technology from yet another company that has found a way to do multi-layer discs a lot better than either Toshiba or Sony. It's the technology I mentioned some time back. They can create discs with 10 or 20 layers, while Sony has trouble with two for Blu-ray, and Toshiba has trouble with more than three. If this technology had come along a little earlier, blue laser discs wouldn't even have been necessary until they were more ready for prime time. They can do 50-100GB discs now with red laser, using the process Warner utilizes for the combo Blu-ray/HD DVD. 300GB recordable DVD's are not that far away.

I'm pissed off too. Both yesterday and right now I'm having trouble forcing a call. I either get Service Not Answering or Could Not Connect. I have tried all of the numbers. Yesterday I was finally able to connect after trying several numbers.

I have not moved or changed anything.

Showtime Broadband Game Service
Because when you think gaming, you think Showtime (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16459730/)?

Here's Charter spokesperson Sharifah Williams, justifying the company's recent price hike, as reported by the Alton Telegraph:
_______________________________________________________

"It just basically is a reflection of our product value," Williams said. "We don't offer the same services we offered two, three years ago. You had hardly any of the channels. Now, we have on-demand and DVR services."
_______________________________________________________

Well, la-de-dah.

Do these people have ANY contact with the outside world and actual customers?

Lets see Charter HD is something like $6-7 bucks, and Dish is like $20 bucks according to something posted here earlier....and somehow CHARTER IS THE BAD GUY!!!!!!!!!!! Gotta love that logic.

DVR service is not a "value add" any more. It is a must have for a company to survive.
For me, the on-demand service was crap. In 15 months of having their service, I never once saw anything on there of any value. I did try it once and got an "ERROR 22". Never tried it again....

Wouldn't you love to get a hold of these people and smack the $%^& out of them.....

According to the guy in the St. Peters office the other day, Charter is $10.00 for what little HD service they provide, and you won't be able to get a HD-STB for over a month. With Dish you get all the locals, food-hd, hgtv-tv, and a bunch more. Plus, the Dish CSR I spoke to the other day could count past 2. One more thing... I had an additional HD receiver installed in under 2 days.

You would think that STL would have some type of preferential treatment with Charter's big I.T. center here in Chesterfield. They employee many people from STL. In other words, the STL people keep them running....

I didn't used to use VOD very much, but I do on occasion to watch a movie -- the HBO/Cinemax stuff is pretty extensive. If you got that error it means your box wasn't getting a proper IP address, just call and they can send a signal to it and fix that. In general though, I'll say VOD isn't much "value added" and I could live without it. Agreed about DVR.

HGTV in HD isnt added value either (for me.) :-)

Anyhow each service has its downsides. Read this entire thread you'll find problems all around, nothing is perfect, its all over priced, and I'm starting to ponder just going OTA and using the 'net for everything else I want to burn/watch.

Blah.

I think you have the best idea. OTA....

The day my kids get off the Disney Channel shows, all pay-TV is gone....

"It just basically is a reflection of our product value," Williams said. "We don't offer the same services we offered two, three years ago. You had hardly any of the channels. Now, we have on-demand and DVR services."


That is a bunch of crap. They talk about more channels, but who actually watches them. I'm sick of them putting on extra channels that nobody watches, just to say that have xxx number of channels. That doesn't justify a price increase in my opinion. But what aggravates me the most is that he says they increased prices because of a DVR. That is pure bull as the people who have the DVR pay a huge amount. Why increase prices of cable service for that?

I've been a loyal charter guy for over 15 yrs, but I've had it. If it weren't for the MOXI, I would have left them a year or so ago, but now is the time.

Tim

Lets see Charter HD is something like $6-7 bucks, and Dish is like $20 bucks according to something posted here earlier....and somehow CHARTER IS THE BAD GUY!!!!!!!!!!! Gotta love that logic.

Lets compare costs vs products genius..

DirecTV HD Channels for $9.99:
ESPNHD
ESPN2HD
Universal HD
TNTHD
DiscoveryHD
HDNET
HDNET Movies

DishNetwork HD Channels for the additional $20:

Animania HD
Family Room HD
GamePlay HD
Discovery HD Theater
Equator HD
DISH Network PPV in HD
Film Fest HD
Food Network HD
HDNet Movies
Kung Fu HD
Monsters HD
World Cinema HD
HDNews
Rave HD
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
NFL Network HD
Rush HD
WorldSport HD
Gallery HD
HDNet
HGTV HD
TNT HD
Treasure HD
Ultra HD
Universal HD

Charter HD Channels $6-$7
HDNet
HDNet Movies
ESPN HD
Discovery HD Theater
TNT- HD
MHD

DirecTV and DISH provide the local channels via SAT as part of the local packages
built into your current package or you can get them via OTA.

Charter gives you some local HD channels for free via their LIFELINE tier if they
are allowed to carry them, but you can not hook up an antenna to their DVR and
record them. Charter also carries FSNMW HD via LIFELINE, I don't know how DISH
handles it, but DirecTV will occassionaly show it via their special events channel.

So before you start typing a way, why not research the products you attempt to bash.

Someone should try to send this yahoo an email. The internal charter domain for email is ******@chartercom.com

I tried but jackass@chartercom.com got kicked back saying it matched too many names.

I think he meant yahoos@chartercom.com. Apparently it's an all-points eMail address.

For all you DISH Network subscribers out there, what sort of HD DVR do they offer? Do you like the software on it? Is it comparable to Tivo or Charter Moxi system? Also, how much do their HD DVRs cost and can you get more than one?

It's been said a lot, in a variety of ways, but it bears repeating simply:

With Dish and DirecTV DVR's, you have a built-in OTA tuner that allows you to get ALL the local digital stations for free, and you can record them just as you record any satellite channel, using the same guide/interface as the satellite channels. Also, you get the big four locals - ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox - as satellite broadcasts, too, giving you even more recording flexibility. Add to that the ability to record 3 HD/SD programs at once (with Dish anyway - not sure about D*), while watching one that's already recorded, and you have a very versatile system.

From my point of view, the only reason for staying with Charter (if you want HD) is that you have no other choice - in an apartment building or you don't have line of sight to the satellites. I use Charter for high speed Internet, but for HD, they simply do not compete.

I too am now thinking of defecting to the DISH just for the amount of HD programming available, plus the price seems a bit "too good to be true". I am thinking about just using the OTA signal for my local HD. I hear it is a much better picture since there isn't any additional compression added to the signal. I am to the south of St Louis, has anyone ever tried getting an OTA HD sig down towards Herculaneum? How was it? Plus how good is the content that comes with all those HD channels on DISH.

It's been said a lot, in a variety of ways, but it bears repeating simply:

With Dish and DirecTV DVR's, you have a built-in OTA tuner that allows you to get ALL the local digital stations for free, and you can record them just as you record any satellite channel, using the same guide/interface as the satellite channels. Also, you get the big four locals - ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox - as satellite broadcasts, too, giving you even more recording flexibility. Add to that the ability to record 3 HD/SD programs at once (with Dish anyway - not sure about D*), while watching one that's already recorded, and you have a very versatile system.


So you can get the Local channels in HD right from the satellite, without having to add your own outdoor antenna?

So you can get the Local channels in HD right from the satellite, without having to add your own outdoor antenna?

Yes. Channels 2, 4, 5, and 30. You don't get the sub channels though.

I called Charter to bitch about the CBS HD feed. She said to try back in a few hours and should be up again. Gotta love their internal communication. After further investigation she found it has been permanently removed from the lineup and they had performed the necessary notifications. I asked why the broadcast message on the channel said it was 'temporary' and got no reply. I was told it wouldn't affect my bill either way because I get those channels for 'free'....

Lets see Charter HD is something like $6-7 bucks, and Dish is like $20 bucks according to something posted here earlier....and somehow CHARTER IS THE BAD GUY!!!!!!!!!!! Gotta love that logic.

You are not using logic either...I'll be paying (before coupons and discounts) $40 less to have the EXACT same thing from Dish...Dish also offers more channels as well. Charter gives you what a dozen channels for $7? Dish gives you 30 for $20 and you get ABC and CBS ESPN2 and NFL Network and you get a DVR with a OTA tuner! That stuff is well worth a difference of $13....

So you can get the Local channels in HD right from the satellite, without having to add your own outdoor antenna?

You can get NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox as satellite broadcasts, without an antenna. With the antenna, you get ALL the locals - 2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 30, 46 - and their sub-channels, although I never watch any of those (OK, I do switch to 5-2 once in a blue, blue moon). All these locals can be recorded with the DVR, within the same box/interface. It couldn't be much easier. I love the Dish 622 DVR. It's a great piece of technology. Since I just recently got a 1080p projector, I especially like that most Dish channels are still not HDLite, although they have gone over to the dark side recently with Voom (1280x1080) and HDNet (1440x1080). The movie channels and Discovery, along with others, remain true 1920x1080.

An antenna is a hassle, true, but it's only a hassle once. It took me some time fiddling with an indoor antenna to realize I wanted a rooftop antenna so I wouldn't have to adjust anymore. It took an extra pole to raise the antenna to a good height, but I haven't had any significant problems since.

Lets compare costs vs products genius..

DirecTV HD Channels for $9.99:
ESPNHD
ESPN2HD
Universal HD
TNTHD
DiscoveryHD
HDNET
HDNET Movies

DishNetwork HD Channels for the additional $20:

Animania HD
Family Room HD
GamePlay HD
Discovery HD Theater
Equator HD
DISH Network PPV in HD
Film Fest HD
Food Network HD
HDNet Movies
Kung Fu HD
Monsters HD
World Cinema HD
HDNews
Rave HD
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
NFL Network HD
Rush HD
WorldSport HD
Gallery HD
HDNet
HGTV HD
TNT HD
Treasure HD
Ultra HD
Universal HD

Charter HD Channels $6-$7
HDNet
HDNet Movies
ESPN HD
Discovery HD Theater
TNT- HD
MHD

DirecTV and DISH provide the local channels via SAT as part of the local packages
built into your current package or you can get them via OTA.

Charter gives you some local HD channels for free via their LIFELINE tier if they
are allowed to carry them, but you can not hook up an antenna to their DVR and
record them. Charter also carries FSNMW HD via LIFELINE, I don't know how DISH
handles it, but DirecTV will occassionaly show it via their special events channel.

So before you start typing a way, why not research the products you attempt to bash.

Actually reading the list you posted is quite laughable. I have never even heard of most of the Dish Network channels. Talk about throwing out a bunch of garbage and bragging about your number of channels. I would say Dish has to take the cake. Charter still looks like the best deal to me from what you posted.....although I must admit I get mine OTA. I don't think any of them are worth the money, but I am not a TV junkie either.

The current Dish HD DVR is possibly the best of the bunch. It is dual-TV, dual-tuner HD DVR. It seamlessly runs two TV's, 1 HD and 1 SD. With Dish locals and OTA, you can record up to 3 HD events simultaneously, while viewing the playback of a different recorded HD event.

Dish will allow a new account to have up to 4 HD tuners, in any combination. 2 dual tuners; 1 dual tuner and 2 single tuners, etc. Established accounts can have up to 6. I have 2 dual tuner HD DVR's, and 2 single HD receivers.

One thing to be noted, if you decide to get your locals only via OTA, and you do not subscribe to the Dish local package, the OTA data will not populate your guide.
You MUST subscribe to the Dish locals in order to receive guide data for the OTA locals.

The OTA locals will show up in the guide, and they will map down, but the data will only populate as a 24/7 "Digital Service." You can still record an event, but only via a manual timer. You would have to have another source to tell you what show is on at what time, and then manually enter the timer. The Dish HD DVR is a name-based PVR. Manual timers can be programmed as recurring, but with guide data, and NBR, it's one-click programming. Just select how you want it to recur, and you're done.

You can have a look at the Dish HD DVR HERE (http://rweb.echostar.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/receiver/622.shtml)

Oh Lordie....so, see folks....it could be worse!

I too am now thinking of defecting to the DISH just for the amount of HD programming available, plus the price seems a bit "too good to be true". I am thinking about just using the OTA signal for my local HD. I hear it is a much better picture since there isn't any additional compression added to the signal. I am to the south of St Louis, has anyone ever tried getting an OTA HD sig down towards Herculaneum? How was it? Plus how good is the content that comes with all those HD channels on DISH.cd,

I recently organized a St. Louis HDTV survey to cover some of the questions you're asking, which come up frequently.

Here's a link to the section of the survey results that show how DISH (and Charter and DirecTV) customers rate the HD channels they receive in terms of content, picture quality and sound quality. I think you'll find this to be considerably more illuminating than certain fact-free nattering that appears here from time to time.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9315435&&#post9315435

I'd also suggest that you browse through the other sections of the survey (links appear at the bottom of the linked message), particularly those that relate to local channel quality and how customers rate their Pay TV providers in specific areas.

While the sample sizes for the various parts of the survey are not massive, this data is recent and as good as anything available. It should help give you a better idea of what to expect from DISH, rather than making a decision in the dark.

i havent heard of half those dish hd channels. has anyone compared OTA HD signals to the ones coming through sat or cable?

vid savant, you the man! i have only been a member for a day and half and i have already doubled my hd knowledge!

i havent heard of half those dish hd channels. has anyone compared OTA HD signals to the ones coming through sat or cable?

Both Kdg454 and I have posts a few pages back showing pictures comparing OTA to SAT.

Scott

The current Dish HD DVR is possibly the best of the bunch. It is dual-TV, dual-tuner HD DVR. It seamlessly runs two TV's, 1 HD and 1 SD. With Dish locals and OTA, you can record up to 3 HD events simultaneously, while viewing the playback of a different recorded HD event.

Dish will allow a new account to have up to 4 HD tuners, in any combination. 2 dual tuners; 1 dual tuner and 2 single tuners, etc. Established accounts can have up to 6. I have 2 dual tuner HD DVR's, and 2 single HD receivers.

One thing to be noted, if you decide to get your locals only via OTA, and you do not subscribe to the Dish local package, the OTA data will not populate your guide.
You MUST subscribe to the Dish locals in order to receive guide data for the OTA locals.

The OTA locals will show up in the guide, and they will map down, but the data will only populate as a 24/7 "Digital Service." You can still record an event, but only via a manual timer. You would have to have another source to tell you what show is on at what time, and then manually enter the timer. The Dish HD DVR is a name-based PVR. Manual timers can be programmed as recurring, but with guide data, and NBR, it's one-click programming. Just select how you want it to recur, and you're done.

You can have a look at the Dish HD DVR HERE (http://rweb.echostar.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/receiver/622.shtml)

That looks like what I need. How does it interact with the 2nd TV. I currently have a MOXI with a Mate. I have a seperate box for the 2nc TV that is connected by the existing coax in the house. Does the 622 operate the same?

i havent heard of half those dish hd channels. has anyone compared OTA HD signals to the ones coming through sat or cable?

No kidding, I have not heard of them either. Amazing what they can get people to pay for!!! I may start my own TV channel based on what I saw there!!

I don't think you are going to see HUGE differences in the picture quality between OTA, Sat, or Cable. OTA will be the best, but unless you are really picky it won't be that noticable.

Both Kdg454 and I have posts a few pages back showing pictures comparing OTA to SAT.

Scott
You only posted that, cuz yours are better :p
In all fairness, you DID use Bonnie to perk yours up!

Actually reading the list you posted is quite laughable. I have never even heard of most of the Dish Network channels. Talk about throwing out a bunch of garbage and bragging about your number of channels. I would say Dish has to take the cake. Charter still looks like the best deal to me from what you posted.....although I must admit I get mine OTA. I don't think any of them are worth the money, but I am not a TV junkie either.

Some of them I never watch. Some of them that you are mocking are quite good. The main reason Dish has so many more is because of VOOM. There are some very good VOOM channels. I didn't think I cared for VOOM until I got it in Dec, but I do watch some of them. With that being said you are still pitifully losing this argument. If we take out all of the VOOM channels Dish still has more than Charter. And after taking out the VOOMs, if you have not heard of the ones that are left, then you have been living under a rock, wait, oh yeah.

ESPN2
Food
HGTV
Universal
NFL Network

I think that covers all of them, but not sure. I agree with you, you said Charter has the best deal for you because you admitted in your post that you don't think any of them are worth the money. If none of them are worth the money then you should take the cheapest one or better yet, none at all. And if you don't like HD and it isn't worth it, then I'm not sure why you waste time being concerned with the discussion. But then I have been wrong before, and my wife will tell me when I am again.

That looks like what I need. How does it interact with the 2nd TV. I currently have a MOXI with a Mate. I have a seperate box for the 2nc TV that is connected by the existing coax in the house. Does the 622 operate the same?
I don't know how the Moxi/Mate operate. The 622 operates the second TV via a UHF remote, just as the receiver was right next to the second TV....only it's not. Everything is separate between TV1 and TV2. The second TV has full access and function of the DVR, SD only. You can play back HD events on the SD TV2, the 622 will downrez them. Connection from the 622 to TV2 is via coax.

Two Notes of caution:
-when using the 622 in dual mode (running 2 TV's) you "give up" one of the tuners to the second TV. So, if you have 3 available timers, in dual-mode, both TV's have 2 each (1 shared). In single-mode, TV1 would have 3, or 4 w/OTA + Locals.
-said this before...if you don't sub to Dish locals, and use only OTA for locals, you don't get guide data for the locals.

You only posted that, cuz yours are better :p
In all fairness, you DID use Bonnie to perk yours up!

Wait a minute, I'll have to go back and look. I didn't notice she was perked.

Wait a minute, I'll have to go back and look. I didn't notice she was perked.
Why not ask the wife to have a looksee?

No kidding, I have not heard of them either. Amazing what they can get people to pay for!!! I may start my own TV channel based on what I saw there!!

I don't think you are going to see HUGE differences in the picture quality between OTA, Sat, or Cable. OTA will be the best, but unless you are really picky it won't be that noticable.

hey whatever...here's the important ones for you: CBSHD, ABCHD, ESPN2HD and NFL Network HD...those four channels, plus the use of an OTA receiver is worth the difference in price.

See, Charter keeps claiming that have the customer in mind and that they offer value, BUT they are more expensive OVERALL and they do not supply half the channels I am interested in. It doesn't matter that Dish's HD package is $20 compared to Charter's new rate of $10 because the standard package that you have to have with both is WAAAYYY cheaper with Dish.

Like I said, I am getting Dish's bronze package plus sho and hbo and it's $67 before my new cusomter deals. Charter is no charging me $80 for it's "Biggest value" Package, $13 for a DVR, and $10 for HD...That's $103...both prices I am giving you are for ONE TV and before taxes and fees.

I got a letter in the mail today "explaining" the KMOV situation. Laughable. Oh well.

How do I put him on ignore?

How do I put him on ignore?
User CP (control panel)
Buddy/Ignore Lists
User Name
Update Ignore List

Poof!

I agree. There are many hardcores here though. I still think OTA is the best option if they are not happy with their carrier for not providing two channels that they can easily get for free themselves.

My TV does not have a built in tuner, and I would like to be able to record HD as I currently do with my Moxi. Someone please tell my how I record HD OTA for "free". ;)

For anyone considering it, OTA is not always easy, and it is never free.
Yes, the signal is free, but the antenna is not free, if needed, the pre-amp is not free, the ATSC tuner is not free, the installation is not free.

Research it well, and don't be fooled by uninformed statements.

Nobody ever said recording HD (or anything OTA) was "free." Get a Tivo Series3 ;-)

Of course TV isn't "free." You need a tv after all. The signal, however, is free, floating out there, waiting for all of us.

My TV does not have a built in tuner, and I would like to be able to record HD as I currently do with my Moxi. Someone please tell my how I record HD OTA for "free". ;)

I believe you would need an HD Tivo, or a computer with an HD card capable of it. You would have to pay for the Tivo charges. I didn't say you could record it for free. The signal is free.

User CP (control panel)
Buddy/Ignore Lists
User Name
Update Ignore List

Poof!

I always go to Ken for satellite questions I have. Thanks also for providing this valuable piece of information about the AVS Ignore List.

Poof! No more wasted energy on provocative posts.

For anyone considering it, OTA is not always easy, and it is never free.
Yes, the signal is free, but the antenna is not free, if needed, the pre-amp is not free, the ATSC tuner is not free, the installation is not free.

Research it well, and don't be fooled by uninformed statements.

Yes, you need some equipment as you do with your satellite company. The point is the antenna is like $60 bucks, the tuner may already be in your TV. If not, you will need a separate tuner many of which can be purchased off ebay very cheaply. The cost to set it up is very low, and no fees after that. You pay your satellite company $100 per month the rest of your life. $1200 per year, times 30 years is $36,000. Those are estimates of course.

Edit: Actually, I ignored the time value of money. The $36,000 is really much higher considering the time value of money.

Poof! No more wasted energy on provocative posts. Let's not waste any more energy on off-topic stuff that should go to PM, either.

Doc

For Dish they charge you an extra $5 a month for an additional TV. If I would use the 622 DVR for a 2nd TV, would I be charged the additional $5?

Although the HD channel is missing in action, the digital Channel 4 looks somewhat better than other digital channels. I wonder if they are doing something to make it look better while the HD equivalent is not available.

For Dish they charge you an extra $5 a month for an additional TV. If I would use the 622 DVR for a 2nd TV, would I be charged the additional $5?
No Tcfila, Dish does not have additional TV fees, they are additional receiver fees.
You could feed 12 TV's off of one receiver, and there would be no additional fee. Dish does not count the TV2 of a dual-TV receiver (622) as an additional receiver.

There is a $6.00/mo DVR fee, unless you subscribe to their highest tier, then it's waived.

For example, if you got a 622 to run 1 HD and 1 SD TV, and a 211 to run another HD TV, you would be charged the $5.00 additional receiver fee for the 211.

No Tcfila, Dish does not have additional TV fees, they are additional receiver fees.
You could feed 12 TV's off of one receiver, and there would be no additional fee. Dish does not count the TV2 of a dual-TV receiver as an additional receiver.

There is a $6.00/mo DVR fee, unless you subscribe to their highest tier, then it's waived.

For example, if you got a 622 to run 1 HD and 1 SD TV, and a 211 to run another HD TV, you would be charged the $5.00 additional receiver fee for the 211.

Can I watch 2 different channels off the one receiver at the same time? Can I watch one channel and record another at the same time off the one receiver?

Although the HD channel is missing in action, the digital Channel 4 looks somewhat better than other digital channels. I wonder if they are doing something to make it look better while the HD equivalent is not available.
Maybe turned the throttle down? Smart thinking, if they did. I really don't think they care that much.
Can you, or did you compare it to the OTA?

OK Ken...you should get referral $$$ for your knowledge of Dish configuration options.

I have three HD sets and one SD set. No DVR. What can I get with dish? The cable for each set does a "homerun" into the basement.

No Tcfila, Dish does not have additional TV fees, they are additional receiver fees.
You could feed 12 TV's off of one receiver, and there would be no additional fee. Dish does not count the TV2 of a dual-TV receiver (622) as an additional receiver.

There is a $6.00/mo DVR fee, unless you subscribe to their highest tier, then it's waived.

For example, if you got a 622 to run 1 HD and 1 SD TV, and a 211 to run another HD TV, you would be charged the $5.00 additional receiver fee for the 211.

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it. Am I correct that DirecTV's DVR is not like that?

Sounds like you were letting Charter fleece you. I saw them advertising in the Sunday newspaper digital cable, 3mb internet access, and unlimited phone service for $99. Sounds like a bargin to me. I don't think your satellite company offers that deal.

The "deal" for internet and phone service typically lasts only three months. The ads never mention what the "regular" price will be when the promotion ends. I've always thought this type of Charter advertising was a little shifty. Even when you go to Charter's website, its hard to get straight information on what the final cost will be.

I bought an HDTV in October and upgraded my Charter service from basic local channels to a digital receiver and HD service. The choice was more one of convenience and an incentive that BB was offering to cover the cost of installing the TV on the wall.

I was also led to believe Charter would soon improve its HD offerings to match those offered by the satellite providers. It hasn't happened yet and I don't see any prospect of it happening in the next 12 months.

Charter can talk all it wants about the local HD channels being free. From my perspective, between the hardware fee and the programming charge, I'm paying about $15 extra per month for their HD service. Since Charter has decided to get into a stare-down contest with Belo, I'm not getting what I thought I was paying for. This is on top of last week's shuffling of channel lineups and price increases, yet another example of less service for more money.

It's time to look at the alternatives.

Can I watch 2 different channels off the one receiver at the same time? Can I watch one channel and record another at the same time off the one receiver?

Ken will correct me if I am wrong. And as I said I have been before. But I believe both answers are yes.

The first one is yes if you have a dual tuner receiver.

The second answer is yes if you have a dual tuner receiver with DVR.

Both are widely available without a waiting list to my knowledge. As well as HD dual tuner DVR, the 622 which has been discussed ad nauseum here.

The "deal" for internet and phone service typically lasts only three months. The ads never mention what the "regular" price will be when the promotion ends. I've always thought this type of Charter advertising was a little shifty. Even when you go to Charter's website, its hard to get straight information on what the final cost will be.

I bought an HDTV in October and upgraded my Charter service from basic local channels to a digital receiver and HD service. The choice was more one of convenience and an incentive that BB was offering to cover the cost of installing the TV on the wall.

I was also led to believe Charter would soon improve its HD offerings to match those offered by the satellite providers. It hasn't happened yet and I don't see any prospect of it happening in the next 12 months.

Charter can talk all it wants about the local HD channels being free. From my perspective, between the hardware fee and the programming charge, I'm paying about $15 extra per month for their HD service. Since Charter has decided to get into a stare-down contest with Belo, I'm not getting what I thought I was paying for. This is on top of last week's shuffling of channel lineups and price increases, yet another example of less service for more money.

It's time to look at the alternatives.

The $99 month deal is good for 1 year. It says so right on the ad.

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it. Am I correct that DirecTV's DVR is not like that?
IIRC, DirecTV does not have dual-TV receivers. Dish has them in both HD and SD DVR's.

Ken will correct me if I am wrong. And as I said I have been before. But I believe both answers are yes.

The first one is yes if you have a dual tuner receiver.

The second answer is yes if you have a dual tuner receiver with DVR.

Both are widely available without a waiting list to my knowledge. As well as HD dual tuner DVR, the 622 which has been discussed ad nauseum here.
The first is Yes.
The second is No. You can view one channel, and record TWO additional channels symotaniously.

The first is Yes.
The second is No. You can view one channel, and record TWO additional channels symotaniously.


See, I stand corrected. Things are even better than I described.

OK Ken...you should get referral $$$ for your knowledge of Dish configuration options.

I have three HD sets and one SD set. No DVR. What can I get with dish? The cable for each set does a "homerun" into the basement.
You would get 1 622 to run your HD and SD set, and two 211's to run your other two HD sets.

If you go to the Dish Website, they have a fairly new, easily navigated, interactive configuration section. It's called DishBuilder. You can move back and forth, make changes, and see the different configs, programming packages and pricing.
LINK (http://www.dishtv.com/builder06.jsp)

The $99 month deal is good for 1 year. It says so right on the ad.

You're right. I was looking at Charter's website and the listings for the the cable-only packages. My bad.

However, it's still not appealing to me. I pay less than $50/mo for my phone service and DSL thru SBC (or AT&T or whatever they're calling themselves this week). If the power goes out in a storm, Charter's phone service goes out too. I'm guessing that if I do the pricing, my total bill will be still be comparable to Charter's "deal," and I'll have lots more channels.

Will I ever watch KungFu HD? No, never. But there's lots of channels that Charter offers that I have no interest in watching too. But I will get some of the other HD channels that Charter either can't or won't offer.

If I switch from Charter to Satellite, can I use the existing cable wiring in my home or will everything have to be rewired?

If I switch from Charter to Satellite, can I use the existing cable wiring in my home or will everything have to be rewired?

Chances are you may be able to use some of the existing wire in the home. From the dish to each box you will need to have RG-6 coax. Some, especially older homes, are wired with RG-59 which is a smaller and not very effective choice. Bottom line, for every room or location with a box you will likely have to run a new run from the dish.

Scott

Hi everyone I have been lurking on this board for months and I am thinking of taking the direct tv plunge and any help would be welcome.I have three tvs and one is hd so I would need the hd package and a dvr and two receivers for the other tvs.I am looking into the total choice+ what equipment should I ask for and what would be the best deal I could get and from whom.I plan on keeping my charter internet and phone service and advice would be welcome.Thank you.

The Blues/Blackhawks are on FSN-HD right now if anyone cares.

You would get 1 622 to run your HD and SD set, and two 211's to run your other two HD sets.

If you go to the Dish Website, they have a fairly new, easily navigated, interactive configuration section. It's called DishBuilder. You can move back and forth, make changes, and see the different configs, programming packages and pricing.
LINK (http://www.dishtv.com/builder06.jsp)

That 622 is pretty sweet. Especially for someone with one HD set but wants to feed modulated TV to the rest of the house. Anyway, here is a link to a review.
http://www.dbstalk.com/622review/DBSTalkViP622Review.pdf

Scott

The Blues/Blackhawks are on FSN-HD right now if anyone cares.
Tuesdays game was on D*95, I'll check it tonight.

edit: fyi, it is on 95

You would get 1 622 to run your HD and SD set, and two 211's to run your other two HD sets.

If you go to the Dish Website, they have a fairly new, easily navigated, interactive configuration section. It's called DishBuilder. You can move back and forth, make changes, and see the different configs, programming packages and pricing.
LINK (http://www.dishtv.com/builder06.jsp)

Hmmm.... the 622 is a DVR that I don't need. I guess there is no two tuner non-DVR HD receiver. If I used three 211's and a 311 and wanted OTA HD locals I would have to hook up an antenna feed to each unit. Will a diplexer work here with HD signals?

I guess I might need more cables run to each room in order for this to work. I do not want to lose channel 9 and 11 HD feeds which are not part of the HD locals available from Dish.

Chances are you may be able to use some of the existing wire in the home. From the dish to each box you will need to have RG-6 coax. Some, especially older homes, are wired with RG-59 which is a smaller and not very effective choice. Bottom line, for every room or location with a box you will likely have to run a new run from the dish.

Scott

Fortunately I have RG-6 coax wired to each of my televisions. Would I be able to bring a feed from the satellite dish to my splitters?

Fortunately I have RG-6 coax wired to each of my televisions. Would I be able to bring a feed from the satellite dish to my splitters?
Correct....that's how Dish does it. Dish >switch >receivers.
The will run the needed down-feeds from your dish antenna to their multi-switch. If you get the HD locals, it will be a DPP44 switch. There will be four feeds from your single dish antenna to one side of the switch. You will be receiving 4 different orbital locations. Your current splitters will be replaced with a DISH Switch, which essentially is an fancy electronic splitter.

The 4 output ports on the other side of the switch are for your receivers, but they can provide signal up to as many as 6 HD receivers, and as many as 8 SD receivers, or any combination of. The PLUS system in the Dish DPP44 switch allows Dish to send more than one signal over one length of coax, which is then split to the needed receiver.

The bottom line here is, with DISH, you do not need a direct feed from the dish to each of your receivers. You do need a direct line from the Dish antenna to your switch. From that point, there are various way to get the signals to your receivers using less cables than the receivers you have.

The DISH PLUS system also enables your to received both DBS and FSS band transmissions. The STL HD locals are on a FSS band satellite.

Fortunately I have RG-6 coax wired to each of my televisions. Would I be able to bring a feed from the satellite dish to my splitters?

See Kens post. I just recently rewired my whole system. To help clean things up I got a Terk 5x8 multi-switch. I ran 4 leads from dish to switch and 1 lead from antenna to switch. Now you can run coax carrying both satellite and antenna to each of the 8 locations. For every Tv/receiver that needs the antenna feed you use a diplexer to decombine the signal.

Scott

Hi everyone I have been lurking on this board for months and I am thinking of taking the direct tv plunge and any help would be welcome.I have three tvs and one is hd so I would need the hd package and a dvr and two receivers for the other tvs.I am looking into the total choice+ what equipment should I ask for and what would be the best deal I could get and from whom.I plan on keeping my charter internet and phone service and advice would be welcome.Thank you.

Welcome to the forum Chazb. I would check out DBSTALK.COM for good satellite advice. Also, check Directv.com for package info.

Forgive me as I don't know all the model #'s. But, generally, you'll need one HD-DVR for your HDTV. I think it is the HR20. Then get 2 basic receivers, or you may want to make one of them a DVR as well. I had one then two and now wish I had three tivos. Make sure you get the newest larger dish. I think it is the A9...

Good luck,

Scott

Tuesdays game was on D*95, I'll check it tonight.

edit: fyi, it is on 95

I must say I was really surprised to see the last two games carried on D*95. It was definitely nice to watch, especially since the Blues are actually playing better now.

Another couple of questions for you Sat folks out there......Looking at switching from C*, KMOV is the last straw.

1--I am pretty sure that E* requires you to be connected to a phone line...Is this true, and will it allow you to connect your receivers to the Internet to accomplish whatever the phone call does? (I have a SD Tivo that is hooked into my wireless Internet, does E* do something simular?) Also, does each receiver have to be connected to a phone line, or just one in the house.....what purpose does this phone line serve?

2--Does D* offer a dual tuner DVR? What is the up front cost for one HD DVR, and can you have 2 via the same coax to a single TV, or would it require a 2nd run to have 2 STBs at the same location.

As always any information is appreciated.

Brad

Here's Charter spokesperson Sharifah Williams, justifying the company's recent price hike, as reported by the Alton Telegraph:
_______________________________________________________

"It just basically is a reflection of our product value," Williams said. "We don't offer the same services we offered two, three years ago. You had hardly any of the channels. Now, we have on-demand and DVR services."
_______________________________________________________

Well, la-de-dah.

Do these people have ANY contact with the outside world and actual customers?

In answer to your question, I actually know Sharifa....she made one of the worst decisions in her life when she moved to Charter. Strange, isn't it?

Wow, a lot of people are jumping ship from Charter to satellite. I had been contemplating moving to DISH since early fall because of Charter's meager HD offerings and the fact that ABC HD was missing in action. Charter's stance on CBS, NFL Network, and ABC as well as their poor customer service has finally pushed me over the edge. Back to satellite it is.

Does anyone here know anything about purchasing a DirectTV HD-DVR (The H-20) on ebay? I was looking around there last night and found a bunch of them reasonably priced for under $100. My main problem is that I want 2 HD DVRs, like I have right now with Charter. I talked to Dish and they told me the first one would be like $200 and the 2nd one would be $500. Is it the same at Direct TV? Does Direct TV allow you to purchase receivers on your own then hook them up to you system?

FCC Passes On Mediacom-Sinclair Dispute, Urges Arbitration

From today's SkyREPORT newsletter:
_________________________________________________

On Thursday, the Federal Communications Commission declined to get involved in the retransmission consent skirmish between Mediacom and Sinclair, denying a request from the MSO to intervene in the matter.

In its order, the FCC's Media Bureau said Sinclair did not breach its obligation to negotiate retransmission consent in good faith, thereby ending the agency's formal involvement in the dispute. Still, the bureau strongly encouraged the parties to engage in "hard bargaining" to achieve an agreement.

"We recognize the cost to consumers if Mediacom and Sinclair do not reach an agreement," the FCC bureau said in its order. "This dispute arises from a fundamental disagreement between the parties over the appropriate valuation of Sinclair's signals. Such disagreements, however, are not indicative of a lack of good faith. Even with good faith, impasse is possible."

While the commission does not have authority to require the companies to submit to binding arbitration, the FCC strongly encouraged the parties to consider that avenue, and suggested the Media Bureau could help with any arbitration effort. If the parties agree to final binding arbitration by the Media Bureau, the FCC said it would require Sinclair to provide Mediacom with access to its stations' signals during the procedure.
_________________________________________________

For more stories about the satellite industry, go to www.skyreport.com.

Bradduh,

The DISH phone requirement was discussed here earlier in the week, so I'd suggest that you scroll back to find that dialogue. I didn't pay that much attention, but I think the conclusion was you're supposed to have one, it's not mandatory, but could result in additional fees if DISH determines you don't have one.

On DirecTV, both the MPEG-2 HD TiVo and the MPEG-4 DirecTV-built one has two tuners -- so you can record two programs, or watch one live and record another. Of course, you also record two and watch one previously recorded show, too. One major difference between the two is the TiVo has two live buffers, while the new MPEG-4 DVR has only one live buffer. No 30-second skip on the new one, either.

The TiVo version requires two coax runs in order to enable both tuners (but just one antenna run). Someone reported here yesterday that the same is currently true for the new DVR, but that there's supposed to a future update that will allow both sat tuners to be fed by a single run. First I'd heard of that...

Another couple of questions for you Sat folks out there......Looking at switching from C*, KMOV is the last straw.

1--I am pretty sure that E* requires you to be connected to a phone line...Is this true, and will it allow you to connect your receivers to the Internet to accomplish whatever the phone call does? (I have a SD Tivo that is hooked into my wireless Internet, does E* do something simular?) Also, does each receiver have to be connected to a phone line, or just one in the house.....what purpose does this phone line serve?

2--Does D* offer a dual tuner DVR? What is the up front cost for one HD DVR, and can you have 2 via the same coax to a single TV, or would it require a 2nd run to have 2 STBs at the same location.

As always any information is appreciated.

Brad

FYI -- the TV Predictions web site has a story on the Belo digital dispute, including a listing of other markets that are affected:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/belohd010507.htm

Far as I know, DirecTV doesn't have an option to buy the HR20, since they went to an all-leasing model before the HR20 was introduced. I'd have to wonder where those HR20's on eBay came from? I vaguely remember an option to buy the Tivo HR10 last year if you bought directly from DirecTV and paid something like $800 or more... maybe the same thing's going on with the HR20, but are these eBay sellers are willing to take that kind of loss if they paid that much for it? I'd e-mail the sellers and ask why they're parting with it, will the unit actually be "yours," etc., before bidding.

Far as I know, DirecTV doesn't have an option to buy the HR20, since they went to an all-leasing model before the HR20 was introduced. I'd have to wonder where those HR20's on eBay came from? I vaguely remember an option to buy the Tivo HR10 last year if you bought directly from DirecTV and paid something like $800 or more... maybe the same thing's going on with the HR20, but are these eBay sellers are willing to take that kind of loss if they paid that much for it? I'd e-mail the sellers and ask why they're parting with it, will the unit actually be "yours," etc., before bidding.


I don't think DTV cares, I recently bought 3 series 2 Tivo's from a retailer on eBay, reused my existing cards and activated them no problemo.......unless they have some special concerns about the HR20's??? BTW those boxes come from guys who are DTV installers or independant sellers, they buy them up, use for installs, resell etc. Of course if you don't add it as a leased box, you get zero support from them.

There was an article on the front page of the Webster-Kirwood Times today about ATT moving into the area with video offerings. The story isn't on their website yet, but for those who want to squint, here's a link to a .jpg of the front page :D

link (http://www.websterkirkwoodtimes.com)

Article indicates that ATT have approval from Creve Coeur, Rock Hill, Kirkwood, Webster, and some others (don't remember which) to begin offering the service. Doesn't give any timelines.

Edit: Looks like they've got it up now.

There was an article on the front page of the Webster-Kirwood Times today about ATT moving into the area with video offerings. The story isn't on their website yet, but for those who want to squint, here's a link to a .jpg of the front page :D

link (http://www.websterkirkwoodtimes.com)

Article indicates that ATT have approval from Creve Coeur, Rock Hill, Kirkwood, Webster, and some others (don't remember which) to begin offering the service. Doesn't give any timelines.


Am I bilind, or did the story or page change? I don't see anything on that front page.

Never mind it seems to have refreshed itself :-)

could anyone point to another thread or website that could should show me how to wire my home? I would love to have sat/cable/rg-6/whatever upstairs in my house. But it's an old house...it's a 1 1/2 story technically and that complicates the issue:

Just great. Charter fights with Belo and the consumer takes the shot. Belo pulls the hd feed during the playoffs. Think that hurts Charter......maybe. I does hurt all the football fans who have Charter. I am a consumer. I have set all the parental controls in the house to not get anything from CBS (bad WAF). I think that all Belo customers should do the same.

Too bad I just signed up for the everything package from Charter or I would be going to Dish.

Shouldn't the spelling be BELOW?

Walt

Is anyone having any issues with their Local HD channels with E*? Last night all my locals where pixelating every 2-3 minutes. my signal on 118 is 96. I called Dish they said it must be my install but Frey has been out twice and nothing. Frey thinks there is something going on with Dish? Anyone have any ideas? channels 9400 and above have no issues just locals.

Far as I know, DirecTV doesn't have an option to buy the HR20, since they went to an all-leasing model before the HR20 was introduced. I'd have to wonder where those HR20's on eBay came from? I vaguely remember an option to buy the Tivo HR10 last year if you bought directly from DirecTV and paid something like $800 or more... maybe the same thing's going on with the HR20, but are these eBay sellers are willing to take that kind of loss if they paid that much for it? I'd e-mail the sellers and ask why they're parting with it, will the unit actually be "yours," etc., before bidding.

I paid $200 for my HR10 last January and D* threw in lots of extras like Showtime free for 6 months and the HD channels for 4. I can't recall all the extras. Mine is owned. I have been a subscriber for 5 years and can't complain. When my original SD Tivo fried they gave me the Hughes 30 hour. Then when I got rid of my receiver they gave me the R10 70 hour and ran the extra line for free. When I did the mover connection (or whatever it's called) they installed another dish and ran all of the lines including a separate OTA line.

I have the option of getting the HR20 and 5 LNB dish for the asking. I made that an option when I bought the HR10. I have no reason to get the HR20 just yet and I want to get the Slimline dish when I do. More than likely it will be leased. I would take it one step further and ask D* rather than rely solely on a seller's answer.

Is there any advantage to the Slimline other than the size?

Does anyone here know anything about purchasing a DirectTV HD-DVR (The H-20) on ebay? I was looking around there last night and found a bunch of them reasonably priced for under $100. My main problem is that I want 2 HD DVRs, like I have right now with Charter. I talked to Dish and they told me the first one would be like $200 and the 2nd one would be $500. Is it the same at Direct TV? Does Direct TV allow you to purchase receivers on your own then hook them up to you system?

Careful -- H20 is non-DVR. HR20 is DVR.

Is there any advantage to the Slimline other than the size?

Nope. The other difference is that all of the lnbs are in one head, as opposed to the
AT-9 that has 2 heads.

Can someone provide a link for pictures of DirecTV's new (large) dish and the "slimline" model that is supposedly going to replace it for future MPEG-4 installs?

Is anyone having any issues with their Local HD channels with E*? Last night all my locals where pixelating every 2-3 minutes. my signal on 118 is 96. I called Dish they said it must be my install but Frey has been out twice and nothing. Frey thinks there is something going on with Dish? Anyone have any ideas? channels 9400 and above have no issues just locals.
Mine are, and have been fine, Jm. I only get around 80 from the 2 Tp's the locals are on.

Can someone provide a link for pictures of DirecTV's new (large) dish and the "slimline" model that is supposedly going to replace it for future MPEG-4 installs?
Maybe here Doug? I don't know much about them.
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Order/Dishes/DirecTV-satellite-dish.htm

Is there any advantage to the Slimline other than the size?

Not that I know of. Given the high winds we get, I prefer the smaller/lighter one. I have read that some installers require a separate pole set in concrete for the larger one. I would check at DBS Talk.

Nope. The other difference is that all of the lnbs are in one head, as opposed to the
AT-9 that has 2 heads.

They are also lighter and supposedly get slightly better signal strength due to being more eliptical than the AT9.

Discussion thread here....

Slimline Dish thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=747821&highlight=slimline)

Mike

They are also lighter and supposedly get slightly better signal strength due to being more eliptical than the AT9.

Mike

You're right. I read that in another AVS forum. The better signal would be better against rain fade.

Edit: Last time I spoke with D*, they said the slimline would be used when they run out of the other ones.

Here's a link that discusses Charter's recent stock price surge and the prospects for shares heading higher.

http://www.antandsons.com/2007/01/charter-looks-to-attack-52-week-high.html

Maybe what's happening locally is an insider selling opportunity?

They are also lighter and supposedly get slightly better signal strength due to being more eliptical than the AT9.

Discussion thread here....

Slimline Dish thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=747821&highlight=slimline)

Mike

I don't know how I could get a better signal, but okay, if that is what they say.

I am 90-99 on all necessary transponders.

Have you had any cloud or rain fade on your local HD channels via the HR20? I am getting some OTA fade until the signal locks.

Nope, not yet.

You're right. I read that in another AVS forum. The better signal would be better against rain fade.

Edit: Last time I spoke with D*, they said the slimline would be used when they run out of the other ones.

I had my slimline installed in the beginning of November and have had no rain fade at all. I am not using the HR20 though, I have the HD Tivo.

On another issue, I installed a Yagi in the attic in November and had no signal problems at all. Now, suddenly KsdK fluctuates eradically. It seems like multipath, but we are on top of a hill with no trees near the antenna height. It is in the attic, but nothing in th attic has changed(aside from opening the fireplace flu(sp?) now that I think of it). I assume noone else is having probs with KsdK since I haven't read about it. From my locaion, KsdK is right in between the other main towers and I have no probs with ay of them.

Any suggestions? (right now I am one armed, so I can't get on the roof, but can probably re-aim, but that shouldn't help)

Dug

I thought this might be of interest to the HTPC HD recording enthusiasts here...

Toshiba Unveils World's First HD DVD Desktop Writer (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/toshiba_brings.php)

I received the copy of the Dish Subscriber Privacy Notice in the mail today.
It's condensed into a tri-fold, double-sided, 6 pt font....lengthy read.

Something we discussed here a few weeks back, regarding user data and habits captured, is well covered in the notice.

In fact, it is clearly stated, Echostar does capture virtually every remote keystroke. What we watch, when we pause, what we skip, how much...how long...everything. They go on to say, they then combine that information with the personal identifiable information contained in our account files, along with other personal identifiable information gathered from 3rd parties, in order to build enhanced lists, which are then sold for marketing purposes.

All of this is done in accordance with The Communications Act of 1934, at least according to the Dish mail piece. I presume this act has been amended since 1934, as there is reference made to "email," and "electronic" means of communications. I guess the "privacy" portion relates back to 1934, as I recall some Telecommunitions act in the 90's? I'm not all up on this sort of thing.

Dish also provides a phone number, you can call to prevent your information from being a part of these "mailing lists," but nothing is stated which allows us from preventing them from capturing and retaining any/all of our viewing habits.

FAI, the phone number to opt out is 888-367-1428.

Maybe what's happening locally is an insider selling opportunity?
Maybe you should buy up a bunch of shares, and let us know how it works out :D

There was an article on the front page of the Webster-Kirwood Times today about ATT moving into the area with video offerings. The story isn't on their website yet, but for those who want to squint, here's a link to a .jpg of the front page :D

Article indicates that ATT have approval from Creve Coeur, Rock Hill, Kirkwood, Webster, and some others (don't remember which) to begin offering the service. Doesn't give any timelines.

Edit: Looks like they've got it up now.

Article in the Post this morning notes that AT&T has requested approval from Ellisville (my home turf) for TV franchise, again at the same rates cable pays. hope it's a slam-dunk.

This Charter mess has convinced me to jump ship. While I'd prefer to wait for AT&T TV it's not at all clear how soon that will happen. So . . . Looked at Dish online last night, took a close look at the specs available from several sources on the 622 HD DVR, got all excited, then called Dish today to discuss.

These are the clarifications I received, wanting confirmation/denial from any of you fine folks:

Rep said the 622 HD DVR really should be used for two TVs, doesn't believe installer will even set it up for one TV. In that case I cannot watch a second live channel when recording another. I have to watch what's being recorded, or watch something already recorded.

I have four TVs, one is HD. If I want to use the 622 exclusively on the HD TV then I can only have 2 of the remaining 3 TVs hooked up. That is, unless I buy an additional receiver for the 4th at $299 PLUS a switch for another $299.

Does DirecTv have a more compatible offering for 1 HD TV with HD-DVR, and 3 SD TVs? DVR flexibility is a must.

First, I think you were misinformed about the 622. I see no reason an installer would refuse to set it up for one TV. In fact mine was added in December and installed for 1 TV. As far as getting to all the TVs you need, Ken is going to be better at answering your best route to that end with Dish.

This Charter mess has convinced me to jump ship. While I'd prefer to wait for AT&T TV it's not at all clear how soon that will happen. So . . . Looked at Dish online last night, took a close look at the specs available from several sources on the 622 HD DVR, got all excited, then called Dish today to discuss.

These are the clarifications I received, wanting confirmation/denial from any of you fine folks:

Rep said the 622 HD DVR really should be used for two TVs, doesn't believe installer will even set it up for one TV. In that case I cannot watch a second live channel when recording another. I have to watch what's being recorded, or watch something already recorded.

I have four TVs, one is HD. If I want to use the 622 exclusively on the HD TV then I can only have 2 of the remaining 3 TVs hooked up. That is, unless I buy an additional receiver for the 4th at $299 PLUS a switch for another $299. Does DirecTv have a more compatible offering for 1 HD TV with HD-DVR, and 3 SD TVs? DVR flexibility is a must.
Yeah, completely wrong. The installer could care less if there is just one TV connected to your 622....less work for him/her. You just got a CSR who slept through training.
I'd suggest you either call AHDTS 800-969-4388, or have a look here, and do your own configuration.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9358485#post9358485

Sounds to me like you need a 622 for your stand-alone HDTV, and a 625, which is a dual-TV dual-tuner SD DVR for your other TV's. The 625 would provide independent DVR capability to 2 SDTV's. If you wanted to add a 3rd, you could just add a remote, and mirror one of the other two. If you watch all 4 TV's at the same time, you could add a single SD tuner for TV4, or use the TV2 capability of the 622. You can seamlessly switch from single to dual mode anytime you choose.

I keep mine in single mode, but connected to SD TV's in guest rooms...when someone is using it, I flip it to dual mode and they have their own receiver. Fairly straightforward stuff.

I use my 622 in single mode all the time. I mirror it on my basement TV and bedroom TV. Both are nearly never watched at the same time. I can do this because the HDMI and component outputs are both active at the same time. The more I think about what I use it for and listen to how Ken uses it, the more I realize how versatile a machine it is.

ps I'm sick of the "Server is too busy" message.

Maybe you should buy up a bunch of shares, and let us know how it works out :DKen,

Rather than buy, I'd sell (short) the stock (if I had spare cash laying about). I really don't see Charter getting out from under its mountain of debt intact. And it sure seems obvious that major compromises are being made to the video business (namely lack of subscriber hardware) due to the debt load and lack of working capital. I suspect this gets worse before it gets better. Charter has sold off some very minor market properties, but unless it carves into the meat of its business, it's likely to go to the wall. Just my opinion, of course.

In any event, the KMOV-DT issue seems like it might be a tipping point in terms of eroding long-term customer loyalties. It's striking the number of people who have come forward this week to announce that they're throwing Charter overboard -- even people who haven't previously posted here are jumping forward to register their unhappiness and intentions. And I've actually had three phone calls from Charter customers looking for advice today. We've always seen a lot of complaints about Charter here, but never this much apparent action and followthrough.

In a way, I think this could be a good thing for Charter, if it actually is a sign of looming serious discontent -- and if they actually heed it as a wake-up call.

I think that all cable companies are insulated, to a significant degree, from competitive realities because they are clearly the consumer's supplier of first choice. Customers are "entrenched," because making a switch is always more difficult than enduring the status quo.

To me, this is one of the main reasons that cable companies in general aren't as customer-focused as satellite -- they don't have to be. For the majority of unhappy cable customers, "the devil they know" usually wins out, even when they're genuinely unhappy about one or more issues.

While I keep reminding myself that what happens on AVS is NOT necessarily representative of the big picture, you also can't ignore the swelling ranks of people who seem to really be starting to vote with their feet.

This is a particularly bad time for this sort of thing to be happening for Charter, because AT&T is lurking in the wings, and once consumers become aware, AT&T is going to seem like a much "easier" alternative than anything that's been available previously.

This is going to be interesting...

I use my 622 in single mode all the time. I mirror it on my basement TV and bedroom TV. Both are nearly never watched at the same time. I can do this because the HDMI and component outputs are both active at the same time. The more I think about what I use it for and listen to how Ken uses it, the more I realize how versatile a machine it is.

ps I'm sick of the "Server is too busy" message.

deuces,

Will the 622 put out 720p/1080i via component and 480i via composite simultaneously?

Thanks,

Scott

Whoa Scott!!

Didn't I tell someone yesterday that I'm not "hardcore". Just kidding. I just know I get HD from component and HDMI at the same time. Granted showing same thing on both TVs, but it is still an advantage to me.

I am not sure about the answer to your question. Heck to me that question is so deep, for all I know you may just be asking to prove how good your DirecTV is again. Haha. Actually Ken may know but I don't.

ps This could take a while, I'm getting the dreaded "Server is too busy" message again.

...
Sounds to me like you need a 622 for your stand-alone HDTV, and a 625, which is a dual-TV dual-tuner SD DVR for your other TV's. The 625 would provide independent DVR capability to 2 SDTV's. If you wanted to add a 3rd, you could just add a remote, and mirror one of the other two. If you watch all 4 TV's at the same time, you could add a single SD tuner for TV4, or use the TV2 capability of the 622. You can seamlessly switch from single to dual mode anytime you choose. I keep mine in single mode, but connected to SD TV's in guest rooms...when someone is using it, I flip it to dual mode and they have their own receiver. Fairly straightforward stuff.

OK, I have to admit, with some embarassment, that reading this stuff about Dish is starting make my head hurt. Different machines, different language, etc.
Indulge me, pls:
My setup right now with Charter:
Connection 1: HDTV connected to Moxi in the TV room.
Connection 2: Right next to the HDTV, a standard STB connected to a Panny HDD/DVD recorder. Uses the Panny IR blaster to change STB stations. Panny connected to the HDTV.
Connection 3: Standard CRT TV with cable out of the wall into a Panny DVD recorder, in the basement.
Connection 4: Same as No. 3, but in upstairs bedroom.
Connection 5. Cable out of the wall into a Sammy computer LCD monitor w/built-in tuner.
How will this work with Dish equipment? I apologize if this seems like I'm asking you all to do the work for me, but I've read all these posts and spent some time at the Dish website and admit to being very confused.
thx
barry

Mediacom Asks Sinclair for Binding Arbitration

From today's Evening Bridge market close newsletter:
______________________________________________________

Mediacom CEO Rocco Commisso said during a conference call today the company has asked Sinclair to enter into binding arbitration in an effort to resolve their retransmission consent skirmish.

He also said Mediacom would appeal a decision handed down by the Federal Communications Commission that denied the MSO's claims that Sinclair had been acting in bad faith during the retrans spat.

Mediacom is set to lose access to local TV stations operated by Sinclair today after the two sides couldn't reach a retransmission consent agreement.
______________________________________________________

Gee, do you think he is gonna have to agree to drop that appeal to get Sinclair to agree to binding arbitration?

Is that talking out of both sides of your mouth? That is a serious question by the way, not an accusation. Does it seem that he is talking out of both sides?

Does anyone here have their Dish service through AT&T? With all the Charter issues of late I'm contemplating a switch to Dish and I like the idea of a single bill for Dish, DSL, phone, and cell that AT&T says they can offer, but I'm curious if there are drawbacks to not going through Dish directly. For reference I'm looking at the DishHD Platinum package with the HD-DVR.

Also, do you think I'd have any luck getting the Dish installer to hook up an OTA antenna if I were to provide one?

This Charter mess has convinced me to jump ship. While I'd prefer to wait for AT&T TV it's not at all clear how soon that will happen. So . . . Looked at Dish online last night, took a close look at the specs available from several sources on the 622 HD DVR, got all excited, then called Dish today to discuss.

These are the clarifications I received, wanting confirmation/denial from any of you fine folks:

Rep said the 622 HD DVR really should be used for two TVs, doesn't believe installer will even set it up for one TV. In that case I cannot watch a second live channel when recording another. I have to watch what's being recorded, or watch something already recorded.

I have four TVs, one is HD. If I want to use the 622 exclusively on the HD TV then I can only have 2 of the remaining 3 TVs hooked up. That is, unless I buy an additional receiver for the 4th at $299 PLUS a switch for another $299.

Does DirecTv have a more compatible offering for 1 HD TV with HD-DVR, and 3 SD TVs? DVR flexibility is a must.

I have never had Dish. If you look at D*'s site (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=2700001), they include Edit: *free* installation up to four rooms. I have the HR10 which is Tivo based for my HD set. I can record up to two shows and watch a third one that was recorded. It requires an antenna for recording/viewing local channels in HD. I heard they are no longer installing them. Instead they are installing the HR20 for HD. That one also records two and watch a third recorded. They have local HD channels so you don't have to get an antenna for the big four but for subchannels on 9 and 11 and any others locals you need an antenna. It currently does not have dual buffers. You can use an antenna with it too. It is not Tivo based software. I don't know what they are offering for SD. I have an older R10 that works perfectly with my SD TV. I'd give them a call and ask.

Oh and the SD boxes also have dual buffers.

Whoa Scott!!

Didn't I tell someone yesterday that I'm not "hardcore". Just kidding. I just know I get HD from component and HDMI at the same time. Granted showing same thing on both TVs, but it is still an advantage to me.

I am not sure about the answer to your question. Heck to me that question is so deep, for all I know you may just be asking to prove how good your DirecTV is again. Haha. Actually Ken may know but I don't.

ps This could take a while, I'm getting the dreaded "Server is too busy" message again.

LOL, Believe me, D* has nothing like the 622 AFAIK. I may be able to use that one box to replace two of mine if it will output HD and SD at the same time is all. I'm sure someone (Ken) will chime in with the 411. I can't believe I'm even considering this.

P.S. I too am sick and tired of the server problems. I just know as soon as I hit enter to post this i'll get the dreaded "busy" message. :mad:

Scott

Gee, do you think he is gonna have to agree to drop that appeal to get Sinclair to agree to binding arbitration?

Is that talking out of both sides of your mouth? That is a serious question by the way, not an accusation. Does it seem that he is talking out of both sides?No, the same thing occurred to me. To enter into binding arbitration, both parties have to mutually agree to do that. Continuing to accuse the company of bad faith while asking it to submit to binding arbitration doesn't seem very constructive.

Then again, if Sinclair believes it's presenting a fair offer -- and especially if it's the same terms as what satellite and other cable companies have agreed to -- then it shouldn't matter too much what his counterparty does or says.

Maybe this is just SOP for CEOs named Rocco. Coulda been a contender. Top of the world, ma...

Does anyone here have their Dish service through AT&T? With all the Charter issues of late I'm contemplating a switch to Dish and I like the idea of a single bill for Dish, DSL, phone, and cell that AT&T says they can offer, but I'm curious if there are drawbacks to not going through Dish directly. For reference I'm looking at the DishHD Platinum package with the HD-DVR.

Also, do you think I'd have any luck getting the Dish installer to hook up an OTA antenna if I were to provide one?

I know I was able to get D* to install their basic antenna for free and direct line for it. It wasn't strong enough so I gave to someone who lurks on this forum. E* may have something similar. The one they used was mounted to the top or side of the dish. If they don't offer one or it's not strong enough I'm sure if you mentioned a nice tip, the installer may help you out. Just make sure you check the signal strength while the installer is there and the ladder is still up. :) If you are able to, make sure the antenna is grounded. I know it sounds pretty basic, but the first installer forgot to ground it. Also, you may be able to get away with indoor rabbit ears.

LOL, Believe me, D* has nothing like the 622 AFAIK. I may be able to use that one box to replace two of mine if it will output HD and SD at the same time is all. I'm sure someone (Ken) will chime in with the 411. I can't believe I'm even considering this.

P.S. I too am sick and tired of the server problems. I just know as soon as I hit enter to post this i'll get the dreaded "busy" message. :mad:

Scott

Scott,

Believe me, I love my 622 and my 942. I have loved Dish since I have had it (2 years on my own and I forget how many years before that prior to moving out and getting my own bills and mortgage :)). Yes I waited a long time to move out. With that being said as much as you love your Sunday Ticket, I'm not even sure why you are asking. Does this mean we will have to listen to you complain about having the shakes from lack of NFL action if you make a switch? Haha.

I had my slimline installed in the beginning of November and have had no rain fade at all. I am not using the HR20 though, I have the HD Tivo.

On another issue, I installed a Yagi in the attic in November and had no signal problems at all. Now, suddenly KsdK fluctuates eradically. It seems like multipath, but we are on top of a hill with no trees near the antenna height. It is in the attic, but nothing in th attic has changed(aside from opening the fireplace flu(sp?) now that I think of it). I assume noone else is having probs with KsdK since I haven't read about it. From my locaion, KsdK is right in between the other main towers and I have no probs with ay of them.

Any suggestions? (right now I am one armed, so I can't get on the roof, but can probably re-aim, but that shouldn't help)

Dug

My OTA is acting up some but not on KSDK. I am seeing brief pixelization on KMOV and KDNL until it locks. Both stations have good signal strength, Has it just been since all the cloud cover? Mine has been. Low clouds do create some multi-path.

deuces,

Will the 622 put out 720p/1080i via component and 480i via composite simultaneously?

Thanks,

Scott
Yes.
720p/1080i are simultaneously hot via component and HDMI, and 480i is simultaneously hot via either composite, S-Video, or coax.

Is there any way to do-it-yourself with Dish? My house has an existing 2LNB Dish dish on the roof which the previous owners left. It has dual cables which run into the basement. Is there anyway Dish would allow me to install a HD service on my own. When I had D* back in 1996 or 7 I bought everything and installed it myself in my previous house. I still have the old Sony receiver.

OK, I have to admit, with some embarassment, that reading this stuff about Dish is starting make my head hurt. Different machines, different language, etc.
Indulge me, pls:
My setup right now with Charter:
Connection 1: HDTV connected to Moxi in the TV room.
Connection 2: Right next to the HDTV, a standard STB connected to a Panny HDD/DVD recorder. Uses the Panny IR blaster to change STB stations. Panny connected to the HDTV.
Connection 3: Standard CRT TV with cable out of the wall into a Panny DVD recorder, in the basement.
Connection 4: Same as No. 3, but in upstairs bedroom.
Connection 5. Cable out of the wall into a Sammy computer LCD monitor w/built-in tuner.
How will this work with Dish equipment? I apologize if this seems like I'm asking you all to do the work for me, but I've read all these posts and spent some time at the Dish website and admit to being very confused.
thx
barry
Barry,
It would take 2 machines.
The 622 (HD) would take care of everything you now do for Connections 1, 2, and 3.
-HD to your TV room TV with HDD/DVD recorder (DVR)
-SD to your CRT TV with HDD/DVD recorder (DVR)
-no IR blaster, no timers to set....all recordings are name based, menu driven, one-click set ups.
-both TV's would have full access to the DVR. You would no longer use your HDD/DVD machines for recording, only playback of manufactured DVD's.

A 625 (SD) would take care of everything you now do for Connections 5 and 6, unless you're doing HD on the computer LCD, then you would need a second HD receiver.
The 625 is also a DVR

Is there any way to do-it-yourself with Dish? My house has an existing 2LNB Dish dish on the roof which the previous owners left. It has dual cables which run into the basement. Is there anyway Dish would allow me to install a HD service on my own. When I had D* back in 1996 or 7 I bought everything and installed it myself in my previous house. I still have the old Sony receiver.
They will, but it would not be cost effective. That current dish antenna is a paperweight. :)
With no commitment, Dish provides everything you need, and installs it for $49.00.
Free with a 18 month commitment.
Just the dish and switch you need, alone, would cost you close to $500.

On a side note, I think what Mo said is very valid. Anyone who is thinking about switching, owes it to themselves to check out all the choices. The programming and configurations for one provider differ from another, and not every provider is going to fit. DBS is very easy, but just like with everything else, there is a form of learning curve.

I have started looking at the satellite options to replace my Charter service as well. I cannot believe Charter, and I thought they were on the road to getting better. This KMOV thing is a pain, I am sure glad I did not install my plasma on the wall ~ only feeding with a coax and using the cable card. Plus if you are a Nascar fan, ESPN is covering all the Busch series races this year. All of the races are going to be in HD and ESPN2 HD is going to have alot of the coverage ~ and guess what, Charter does not have ESPN2 HD.

In any event, the KMOV-DT issue seems like it might be a tipping point in terms of eroding long-term customer loyalties. It's striking the number of people who have come forward this week to announce that they're throwing Charter overboard -- even people who haven't previously posted here are jumping forward to register their unhappiness and intentions. And I've actually had three phone calls from Charter customers looking for advice today. We've always seen a lot of complaints about Charter here, but never this much apparent action and followthrough.
...

Add another Charter customer who will be switching soon. I've sent both KMOV and Charter emails last evening expressing my displeasure with the current situation. The following is the response from KMOV:

"Given the substantial investment KMOV has made in providing its high-definition ("HD") signal to viewers, we are simply asking Charter to share a small fraction of what it charges it subscribers each month to access HD programming. Cable companies such as Charter regularly pay national cable networks for both their analog and HD signals, and we believe they should provide at least some level of support for local television stations that are focused on the St. Louis market. Local programming is important to our community and deserves a level playing field so it can continue to deliver the highest quality programming possible.

KMOV is extremely disappointed that its high-definition ("HD") signal has been removed from Charter's channel lineup. It is unfortunate that Charter does not see the value in offering KMOV's HD signal to its subscribers. We remain hopeful that we can quickly resolve this issue with a minimal disruption to our viewers. All other major television providers that offer HD service to subscribers in the St. Louis market carry KMOV's HD signal.

Please note that KMOV's regular analog signal will continue to be available on Charter cable channel 4 or 6. KMOV's HD signal is also available through DirecTV and Dish Network. Additionally, KMOV's HD signal continues to be available over-the-air to viewers with a high-definition television tuner and an antenna."

KMOV replied this morning. I won't hold my breath for anything from Charter, although like everyone else I received their self-serving letter announcing the change via snail mail.

Ok, I really haven't had trouble with my Charter HD service here in Alton, but am ticked off with the KMOV issue, as 75% of programs we watch are CBS. The lack of ABC-HD has been a non-issue as no one in the family watches anything on ABC (really.)

DISH or DirectTV would result in the loss of channel 11 HD and FOX Midwest as I understand it, and Cardinal baseball and BLues hockey are only sports my son and I watch.

If I keep Charter HD for the HD channels that are available (HBO/Cinemax/SHO, TNT, HD Net) what is my SIMPLEST option for OTA HD?

Only one tv is HD, it does not have built in HD tuner.

They will, but it would not be cost effective. That current dish antenna is a paperweight. :)
With no commitment, Dish provides everything you need, and installs it for $49.00.
Free with a 18 month commitment.
Just the dish and switch you need, alone, would cost you close to $500.

On a side note, I think what Mo said is very valid. Anyone who is thinking about switching, owes it to themselves to check out all the choices. The programming and configurations for one provider differ from another, and not every provider is going to fit. DBS is very easy, but just like with everything else, there is a form of learning curve.

So if I want to do-it-myself it would cost $500 or $549 if Dish installs it. I liked old D* model where you could get the receivers and dish from a retailer and do it in one day. I really don't want to wait for weeks. Maybe I am overreacting to Charter/KMOV.

18 month commitment... :confused:

I assume the costs for D* would be similar or the commitment similar. This is not an easy transition. I'm glad I have a OTA HD receiver for KMOV when I need to watch. It is only on one HD set though.

Ok, I really haven't had trouble with my Charter HD service here in Alton, but am ticked off with the KMOV issue, as 75% of programs we watch are CBS. The lack of ABC-HD has been a non-issue as no one in the family watches anything on ABC (really.)

DISH or DirectTV would result in the loss of channel 11 HD and FOX Midwest as I understand it, and Cardinal baseball and BLues hockey are only sports my son and I watch.

If I keep Charter HD for the HD channels that are available (HBO/Cinemax/SHO, TNT, HD Net) what is my SIMPLEST option for OTA HD?

Only one tv is HD, it does not have built in HD tuner.

Basically you would be looking at what I have now. I have Charter HD and an external HD OTA receiver (from Best Buy) hooked to one HD TV. You need to switch back and forth between the two TV inputs. The channel guides are not integrated and multiple remotes (unless you have an all-in-one remote). You can get by but it is not very convenient.

Oh...you need an antenna but a simple indoor one works for me.

Remember...the Cards are signed with KSDK (5) now.

Thanks, do you think in ALton I would probably need an outdoor antenna? ANd do we know if Cardinals on channel 5 takes the place of all channel 11 Cardinals broadcasts?

I would really like to avoid the switching back and forth business but guess there is no option. Why can't anything be easy?

Basically you would be looking at what I have now. I have Charter HD and an external HD OTA receiver (from Best Buy) hooked to one HD TV. You need to switch back and forth between the two TV inputs. The channel guides are not integrated and multiple remotes (unless you have an all-in-one remote). You can get by but it is not very convenient.

Oh...you need an antenna but a simple indoor one works for me.

So if I want to do-it-myself it would cost $500 or $549 if Dish installs it. I liked old D* model where you could get the receivers and dish from a retailer and do it in one day. I really don't want to wait for weeks. Maybe I am overreacting to Charter/KMOV.

18 month commitment... :confused:

I assume the costs for D* would be similar or the commitment similar. This is not an easy transition. I'm glad I have a OTA HD receiver for KMOV when I need to watch. It is only on one HD set though.
Nope...the $500 only covers the dish antenna and switch. You would still need to purchase receiver(s).
A Dish HD DVR, dish antenna and switch would cost you well over $1000 to buy.
My understanding is Dish (going direct through Dish) is only 2-3 days lead time, order to install. Going through a 3rd party (AT&T) is about 10 days. That 2-3 week delay got caught up some time ago.

OTOH, STL may fall to some delays, in light of this current Charter issue, with regard to satellite installation schedules. In a few days, there will be some people post here what the lead times currently is.

The 18/m commitment only saves you the $49.00 "installation" fee. I don't know if DirecTV has the same commitment, but as you said, I'd guess it is similar....they all want to lock you in.
"Mr. Jones....I'm sorry your cable is out, and your Internet doesn't work, but can we discuss your phone service?"

had too :D

ANd do we know if Cardinals on channel 5 takes the place of all channel 11 Cardinals broadcasts?

No doubt about it....
http://www.ksdk.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=108823

announced Dec 20th, Jay Randolph and Rick Horton announcers
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061220&content_id=1764957&vkey=pr_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

Once the full schedule of HD games is released for KSKD and FSNMW, I'll send it to Doug, and he will post it in his "we interrupt" post.

The 18/m commitment only saves you the $49.00 "installation" fee.

According to the Dish web site if you cancel early they charge $240 or $13.33 per month for each month of cancelled service that applies. That is a pretty hefty fee for only saving $49.00 for the 18 month commitment. !!!!

So if I want to do-it-myself it would cost $500 or $549 if Dish installs it. I liked old D* model where you could get the receivers and dish from a retailer and do it in one day. I really don't want to wait for weeks. Maybe I am overreacting to Charter/KMOV.

18 month commitment... :confused:

I assume the costs for D* would be similar or the commitment similar. This is not an easy transition. I'm glad I have a OTA HD receiver for KMOV when I need to watch. It is only on one HD set though.

redwine I think you misread what Ken said. He said if you want to do it yourself all that equipment would be around $500. Then he said if you have Dish install it, they will provide the equipment (meaning the switch and dish) at no cost to you. Then they will charge you $49 for installation or they will waive that $49 if you agree to an 18 month commitment. They will provide you up to 4 rooms. Then the monthly cost will be dependent upon what programming you choose. You stated if Dish installs it, it would be $549, when I believe it would be $49. Quite a difference. So basically if you are averse to a 18 month commitment it will cost you $49 for installation instead of being free. I hope that clears it up. And Ken please correct me if I am wrong.

Ken, I'm not sure you saw he said it would be $549 if Dish installs it. Maybe I am missing something, but I don't think so.

According to the Dish web site if you cancel early they charge $240 or $13.33 per month for each month of cancelled service that applies. That is a pretty hefty fee for only saving $49.00 for the 18 month commitment. !!!!
That's correct, and you have to return any leased equipment to them, though they pick-up the shipping cost(s).

I think they're all the same or similar. Cingular, Verizon and Sprint usually get 220-250 early termination on a 24 month commitment and offer nothing in return, and it is not pro-rata. If you cancel in month 22, you pay the full early termination fee. Or, you could pay 5x the price for the phone, and have no commitment.

I think the satellite companies, both Direct and Dish offer a incentive and/or programming rebate for the commitment.

Dueces,



What? Are you nuts? I can't live without NFL Sunday Ticket. How else could I see my Chargers play? Believe me, ST was worth every penny this year. :) No, if I make the switch, I'll keep D* during football season, so you won't have to worry.

Scott

Yes.
720p/1080i are simultaneously hot via component and HDMI, and 480i is simultaneously hot via either composite, S-Video, or coax.

So I could be watching HD on the projector in the basement on the receiver's TV1 output, and the plasma in the bedroom in SD via composite from the same TV1 output?

Scott

redwine I think you misread what Ken said. He said if you want to do it yourself all that equipment would be around $500. Then he said if you have Dish install it, they will provide the equipment (meaning the switch and dish) at no cost to you. Then they will charge you $49 for installation or they will waive that $49 if you agree to an 18 month commitment. They will provide you up to 4 rooms. Then the monthly cost will be dependent upon what programming you choose. You stated if Dish installs it, it would be $549, when I believe it would be $49. Quite a difference. So basically if you are averse to a 18 month commitment it will cost you $49 for installation instead of being free. I hope that clears it up. And Ken please correct me if I am wrong.

Ken, I'm not sure you saw he said it would be $549 if Dish installs it. Maybe I am missing something, but I don't think so.

I went through the Dish website and it would be several hundred dollars upfront for 3 HD sets (one DVR) and 1 SD set all getting its own feed.

I went through the Dish website and it would be several hundred dollars upfront for 3 HD sets (one DVR) and 1 SD set all getting its own feed.

I'm going to defer to Ken on this one, but I'm just not sure that is true redwine.

So I could be watching HD on the projector in the basement on the receiver's TV1 output, and the plasma in the bedroom in SD via composite from the same TV1 output?

Scott
The composite feed would be TV2. I suppose you could mirror TV1 via component (HD) to the projector and composite (SD) to the bedroom, but then you have to watch the same on both TV's. If you feed the composite to the bedroom via TV2, it's just like the bedroom has its own separate receiver.

If either the projector or plasma has HDMI, you could do what Deuces does, feed HDMI (HD) to the one, and feed component-5wire (HD) to the other. He has a 40' component feed from the basement to his bedroom. It is a mirror, but it is also HD in both rooms.

Or, just do what I did...get 2 622's :D

I went through the Dish website and it would be several hundred dollars upfront for 3 HD sets (one DVR) and 1 SD set all getting its own feed.
I come up with one-time set up fee:
199. w/commitment - Gold programming w/locals
249. wo/commitment - Gold programming w/locals

Monthly programming fee:
$61.97 + tax

1 - 622 HD DVR + 1 SDTV
2 - 211 HD receivers

It should be noted, satellite start up fees with multiple HD or HD DVR receivers can be costly.

Ok, I really haven't had trouble with my Charter HD service here in Alton, but am ticked off with the KMOV issue, as 75% of programs we watch are CBS. The lack of ABC-HD has been a non-issue as no one in the family watches anything on ABC (really.)

DISH or DirectTV would result in the loss of channel 11 HD and FOX Midwest as I understand it, and Cardinal baseball and BLues hockey are only sports my son and I watch.

If I keep Charter HD for the HD channels that are available (HBO/Cinemax/SHO, TNT, HD Net) what is my SIMPLEST option for OTA HD?

Only one tv is HD, it does not have built in HD tuner.

I am getting Dish on wednesday. I have been generally pleased with Charter. But all the small things are adding up and I am done with them...Like you, we are big Cards and Blues fans...

With Dish you can hook up an OTA antenna to your DVR no problem...This will allow you to watch and record cw11-HD.

You get FSN with Dish. As far as FSNMW-HD, if they really are increasing their HD coverage, then I don't think it will be too long before Dish adds them. Besides, FSN carriers 130 games next year...how many of those will be in HD? 30-50 maybe...I just don't think you'll miss them, considering the bulk of games that will be non-HD, plus all of NBC's games will be HD and Espn and Espn2 will carry a few games as well...

I don't think that any folks around here has comcast as their cable provider, but the owners of ABC 30 are at it with another cable company, comcast. Same thing that has brought us the annoying crawls every 15 minutes against mediacom cable.

link below:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6404747.html?display=Breaking+News

I am getting Dish on wednesday. I have been generally pleased with Charter. But all the small things are adding up and I am done with them...Like you, we are big Cards and Blues fans...

With Dish you can hook up an OTA antenna to your DVR no problem...This will allow you to watch and record cw11-HD.

Yes, just attach the coax to the port marked OTA antenna, and scan in the locals.
They then become part of your guide, and function the same with the DVR as any satellite channel does.
If your OTA cable is run and ready, just ask the installer to connect it and do the scan...it's part of the install.

I come up with one-time set up fee:
199. w/commitment - Gold programming w/locals
249. wo/commitment - Gold programming w/locals

Monthly programming fee:
$61.97 + tax

1 - 622 HD DVR + 1 SDTV
2 - 211 HD receivers

It should be noted, satellite start up fees with multiple HD or HD DVR receivers can be costly.

The HD DVR is the $199 upfront cost. Two HD receivers and 1 SD are just $49 upfront. I wonder why the website won't let you choose three HD receivers and 1 SD? How many LNB's on the dish?

The composite feed would be TV2. I suppose you could mirror TV1 via component (HD) to the projector and composite (SD) to the bedroom, but then you have to watch the same on both TV's. If you feed the composite to the bedroom via TV2, it's just like the bedroom has its own separate receiver.

If either the projector or plasma has HDMI, you could do what Deuces does, feed HDMI (HD) to the one, and feed component-5wire (HD) to the other. He has a 40' component feed from the basement to his bedroom. It is a mirror, but it is also HD in both rooms.

Or, just do what I did...get 2 622's :D

Two 622's would feed my whole neighborhood. :D What a miriad of multiroom possibilities. I hope D* makes a receiver like it.

Scott

The HD DVR is the $199 upfront cost. Two HD receivers and 1 SD are just $49 upfront. I wonder why the website won't let you choose three HD receivers and 1 SD? How many LNB's on the dish?

I found the site hard to deal with. I too wonder why they would limit someone to how many receivers they may want. I I want to pay for 10 boxes, why not let me have them?

Scott

For all considering D* --

If you want a local independent installer who cares what an installation looks like and that it is done correctly, call Jon at Audio Video Concepts. He did my D* install and my parents. He does a nice clean install and can take care of your other home theater needs. I had him go ahead and do my surround sound wiring, mount my Pioneer plasma that I purchased from him and my new Pioneer receiver that he acquired as well. He does a very professional install on both D* and the other adds that I did.

Jon Kniss
Audio Video Concepts
314-704-0251


-Rich

edit- I forgot to add that after using him at home we used him at work too. He got us a deal on a commercial account with 20 receivers included.

I'll bet Charter will try to force a $35 service fee for them to come to my house and pick up the four STBes. I don't think they let you bring the boxes to their office on the Missouri side of the river.

I'll bet Charter will try to force a $35 service fee for them to come to my house and pick up the four STBes. I don't think they let you bring the boxes to their office on the Missouri side of the river.


No, you can return boxes and cancel your services at the office. You just can't exchange a Moxi at the office :) I'm pretty sure you can return all the gear at the offices. If not just throw it at them anyhow, they deserve it, hehe.

I'm sticking with Charter for now. I don't have money for up front fees to get Sat going, and my apathy for TV in general increases my laziness factor. Plus the retention center gave me a good deal for the next year after they screwed my account up after I moved in December. And besides CSI, I don't watch much CBS, even though I'm a bit miffed about the whole ABC/CBS thing. My TV has a built in tuner anyhow and my Silver Sensor works fine from Webster.

I am considering switching from Charter over to Dish Network. I have been reading the post over the last couple pages and I am a little confused about Dish Network coverage regarding Fox Sports Midwest.

From what I understand, DN has Fox Sports Midwest coverage but does not have the Fow Sports Midwest HD coverage at this time. Is this correct? Thanks, Jeff

I am considering switching from Charter over to Dish Network. I have been reading the post over the last couple pages and I am a little confused about Dish Network coverage regarding Fox Sports Midwest.

From what I understand, DN has Fox Sports Midwest coverage but does not have the Fow Sports Midwest HD coverage at this time. Is this correct? Thanks, Jeff

That is correct. While DN will possibly add FSNMW HD at some point, that some point is unknown.

The HD DVR is the $199 upfront cost. Two HD receivers and 1 SD are just $49 upfront. I wonder why the website won't let you choose three HD receivers and 1 SD? How many LNB's on the dish?
That configuration IS 3 HD receivers and 1 SD :confused:

The additional cost is for adding the HD DVR. Try it by deselecting the option to pause/record live TV, that will remove the DVR.
EDIT: I tried it, I see now. You would probably have to call this config in You're too smart for the site ;)
The dish needed in STL has 3 LNB's. 2 singles, and 1 dual-band DBS/FSS. The 3 LNB's receive 4 different satellite locations.

Dish has a limit to how many leased tuners an account is allowed. They view receivers and tuners differently, in that, a 622 is considered 2 tuners, even though it's one receiver.

The criteria for the policy is somewhat ambiguous. It seems to be fairly steadfast for new subs, but the more established subs, (in time, timeless of payment, etc.) are permitted to have more leased tuners. I currently have 5 leased tuners, though they only charge me for 1 additional receiver.

You can call Dish, or a retailer, and order whatever configuration you want, as long as, you do not exceed the 4 leased tuner limit. Scott--you can purchase as many receivers as you want, but they limit how many can be leased. Their website is geared towards allowing Dish to decide which receivers you need, based on the information provided.

The previous version of DishBuilder had an option for advanced users to select which receiver(s) they wanted to order, but Dish found, more times than not, when the installer arrived, the equipment ordered was not correct for the application.

Then, Dish began calling installs prior to the scheduled date, to confirm the equipment, but again, found more often than not, the order was based on what the customer was "told" to get, or what they "thought" they needed. In the end, Dish decided to remove the choices, and base the order on the needs provided.

Another very good source, for anyone interested in learning about and/or considering switching to satellite/DBS TV, visit http://www.dbstalk.com/index.php?
Great information, and some very knowledgeable members there. :)

That is correct. While DN will possibly add FSNMW HD at some point, that some point is unknown.
No one really knows how long, but it's thought to be a long time, considering Dish has already uplinked all but 2 of the FoxSportsNet's HD's, MW being one of the two they've skipped.

They uplinked the others 6 months ago, and they're still not available to subscribers. MWHD has yet to even be uplinked. Long time :(

Barry,
It would take 2 machines.
The 622 (HD) would take care of everything you now do for Connections 1, 2, and 3.
-HD to your TV room TV with HDD/DVD recorder (DVR)
-SD to your CRT TV with HDD/DVD recorder (DVR)
-no IR blaster, no timers to set....all recordings are name based, menu driven, one-click set ups.
-both TV's would have full access to the DVR. You would no longer use your HDD/DVD machines for recording, only playback of manufactured DVD's.

A 625 (SD) would take care of everything you now do for Connections 5 and 6, unless you're doing HD on the computer LCD, then you would need a second HD receiver.
The 625 is also a DVR

Thx for the response kdg -- but I think you might have misread (or I was unclear about) my setup, which is:

Connection 1: HDTV connected to Moxi in the TV room.
Connection 2: Right next to the HDTV, a standard STB connected to a Panny HDD/DVD recorder. Uses the Panny IR blaster to change STB stations. Panny connected to the HDTV.
Connection 3: Standard CRT TV with cable out of the wall into a Panny DVD recorder, in the basement.
Connection 4: Same as No. 3, but in upstairs bedroom.
Connection 5. Cable out of the wall into a Sammy computer LCD monitor w/built-in tuner.

The TV room connections are right next to each other: cable split, one to the Moxi box>component out>LCD TV; the other to Panny HDD/DVR>component and HDMI out>LCD TV.
I like having the Panny for 2 reasons: I can record to DVD or transfer HDD to DVD to play anywhere; and it eases the HD capacity problem of the Moxi (I have the 9022 which is 160 gig; is that the same as the Dish 622?). I use the Moxi for HD sports/movies/dramas and record sitcoms/news etc on the Panny in SD.
So would the 622 feed the TV and Panny (which I'd set up to manually record)?

barry

Wow, this forum is really busy lately, and it's cool to see all the new faces participating.... too bad it's not under better circumstances (i.e., KMOV/Charter)...............

In 12 years with Directv at 4 locations I have never had a "professional installation." Anyone know how this is handled nowdays? Can I do my own D* or E* install?

Yes Bob, it is good to see all the new participation in this thread. To clarify to the newbie's, D*=Directv and E*=Echostar or Dish Network. :)

NFL PLAYOFFS TODAY PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Scott

MU Hoops Action Shifts from KDNL to WRBU

Another wrinkle emerges for sports lovers...Mizzou basketball games are moving from KDNL to WRBU.

I have to admit I was stunned by this news -- I had no idea that WRBU was still in business. But then, I was only marginally aware that Mizzou still had a basketball team (words I'll likely be dining on at some point down the road). ;)

But seriously, this may be a complicating factor for anyone moving away from Charter and looking to replace locals exclusively OTA. Because WRBU's tower is well-removed from all of the other local transmission towers, it can be difficult for some customers to tune into it via an antenna. But both DirecTV and DISH do provide WRBU analog as part of their programming packages.

The following is from today's St. Louis Post-Dispatch:
_________________________________________________________

There's good news for University of Missouri basketball fans — and bad news for their counterparts at St. Louis University — regarding television scheduling arrangements.

The Big 12 is changing local affiliates for its syndicated package of games, moving to WRBU (Channel 46) from KDNL (Channel 30), and WRBU plans to air the full package, including six Mizzou games and all contests in the league's postseason tournament other than the title game, which ESPN has the exclusive rights to show. That means there will be no local blackout of the Saturday semifinal games, something that caused great consternation among fans in years past, when KDNL did not carry some of those contests — including an appearance by Mizzou a few years ago — because of scheduling conflicts.

But WRBU is clearing the decks for the Big 12, including some weeknight prime-time contests.

"College basketball, especially in March, is huge,'' WRBU vice president and chief operating officer Gregg Filandrinos said. "The chance to bring Mizzou and Big 12 basketball to our station is very important for us. It gives us the opportunity to attract new viewers.''

WRBU, formerly an affiliate of the UPN network, now is aligned with the new My Network TV. The package begins today with a tripleheader. (See B2 for schedule.) MU's first appearance is next Saturday, at 3 p.m. vs. Kansas State.
_________________________________________________________

In the same column (Dan Caesar's Media Views), there's a recap of the KMOV-Charter situation, with Caesar noting that this is looking to be the second consecutive year in which Charter is unable to deliver the Super Bowl in HD.

To read the entire column, click here. (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/dancaesar/story/74AD769C601BCBBB8625725B0018939B?OpenDocument)

I just want to commend Ken (kdg454) for the great work he is doing in answering all the questions about DISH Network possibilities for potential Charter defectors. He's put in a lot of hours here this past week, so in order to help lighten the load a bit, I'd like to suggest/encourage that anyone who's interested in Charter alternatives scroll back to the link below, which is where the discussions here about Charter's loss of KMOV-DT begins:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9341270&&#post9341270

Mind you, I'm not suggesting or expecting anyone to read every single one of the 300+ posts since then, but it would be helpful, especially for newcomers to this discussion, to browse through the subsequent pages to see if your specific area of interest has been addressed.

I'm sure that Ken will continue to do the best he can to help out here, but I also hope that everyone appreciates that he's just one guy and may not be able to address all the questions coming at him as quickly as he'd like to.

Yeah, what Doug said. BTW, don't forget to read among the 300 posts that Ken does FREE Dish installs in his spare time.

Scott

Yeah, what Doug said. BTW, don't forget to read among the 300 posts that Ken does FREE Dish installs in his spare time.

Scott

Along with offering free sandwiches and coffee while you wait. What a guy! :D

Along with offering free sandwiches and coffee while you wait. What a guy! :DBuy two and get a coupon for a free pedicure... :eek:

In 12 years with Directv at 4 locations I have never had a "professional installation." Anyone know how this is handled nowdays? Can I do my own D* or E* install?

Scott

I'm not Ken but I sort of asked that question a couple of pages ago. :) I believe the answer is that if you lease then E* wants to install it to protect their equipment. If you buy, and can afford to....then it is your risk.

This is especially true for the DVR which you probably could not purchase anyway.

EDIT: The 622DVR is $500 the 211 is $239

Iamb not sure if anyone addressed it yet but the Super Bowl is on CBS this year I believe? I scrambled last year to get a tuner for my projector in order to watch the game on HD ABC (not a charter channel). I sold my tuner (Voom Box) because the game would be carried by Charter on HD CBS this year. I wasn't suprised to get the letter yesterday, almost comical.

If it weren't for the FSNHD games on Charter I would switch today. Has any cheap tuner popped up over the last year, or is the old Voom box still the best way to get an OTA signal pretty cheap?

Kris,

Check Ebay or Craigslist for a Directv HD receiver. You don't have to activate it to use it as a tuner. Then you can watch the Boltz win the Superbowl.

Scott

Kris,

The Super Bowl angle has been covered...in fact, on this very page.

Your best bet for a cheap OTA tuner is a used DirecTV HD receiver via eBay. These tuners don't require authorization to receive local broadcast. I think it's best to avoid the Hughes E86 models (overheating degrades performance) and the first-generation Samsung receivers (tuner incompatible with some station encoders/decoders).

Also, I'm not 100% certain about the newest receivers H20 being able to operate OTA without a subscription, but there are plenty of other options.

Yeah, what Doug said. BTW, don't forget to read among the 300 posts that Ken does FREE Dish installs in his spare time.

Scott
What is this "spare time" thing, you speak of, Scott?

HD receiverAnd then there is this:
http://www.denguru.com/2006/11/16/pinnacle_hd_pro_stick/

Thx for the response kdg -- but I think you might have misread (or I was unclear about) my setup, which is:

Connection 1: HDTV connected to Moxi in the TV room.
Connection 2: Right next to the HDTV, a standard STB connected to a Panny HDD/DVD recorder. Uses the Panny IR blaster to change STB stations. Panny connected to the HDTV.
Connection 3: Standard CRT TV with cable out of the wall into a Panny DVD recorder, in the basement.
Connection 4: Same as No. 3, but in upstairs bedroom.
Connection 5. Cable out of the wall into a Sammy computer LCD monitor w/built-in tuner.

The TV room connections are right next to each other: cable split, one to the Moxi box>component out>LCD TV; the other to Panny HDD/DVR>component and HDMI out>LCD TV.
I like having the Panny for 2 reasons: I can record to DVD or transfer HDD to DVD to play anywhere; and it eases the HD capacity problem of the Moxi (I have the 9022 which is 160 gig; is that the same as the Dish 622?). I use the Moxi for HD sports/movies/dramas and record sitcoms/news etc on the Panny in SD.
So would the 622 feed the TV and Panny (which I'd set up to manually record)?

barry
Barry,
Taking this to PM...check your inbox a bit later on today :)

And then there is this:
http://www.denguru.com/2006/11/16/pinnacle_hd_pro_stick/


Or this for Mac users:

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybridna

If I keep Charter HD for the HD channels that are available (HBO/Cinemax/SHO, TNT, HD Net) what is my SIMPLEST option for OTA HD?


I would start by reading page one of this thread as well as a couple of pages after that. Doug has compiled a wealth of information there.

For more information I woud also browse the HDTV Reception Hardware thread here at AVS. (You can access it easily by using the Forum Jump drop down box at the bottom of each page).

Go to antennaweb.org and enter all of your information. Click the radio button for
Show Digital Stations Only. This will give you an idea as to how what antenna you need. Click on the Street Level Map to see the directions for the towers.

To purchase an antenna locally:

Skywalker Communictaions
9390 Veterans Memorial Pkwy
O'Fallon, MO 63366
(800) 844-9555
(314) 272-8025
Fax (314) 272-8214
A storefont with very reasonable prices and cheap shipping charges.

Antennas Direct
1699 West 5th Street - Suite F
Eureka, MO 63025
Toll Free (877) 825-5572

Study: HDTV Now in 35m Households; 9m New in 4th Quarter

I'm not sure I believe that HDTV household penetration increased by more than 30 percent in just the past 90 days, but nonetheless the recent sales numbers are big and it's definitely a very bad time to be fumbling the HDTV programming ball...

The following story is from the TV Predictions newsletter:
______________________________________________________

High-Definition TVs are now in approximately 35 million American homes, about one-third of total households.

That's according to the research firm Envisioneering Group.

The company says that about nine million homes acquired high-def sets during the 2006 holiday shopping season. Prior to the holidays, 26 million U.S. homes had HDTVs.

The holiday spike was driven by a sharp decline in high-def set prices, particularly flat-panel Plasma and LCDs. Wal-Mart and other discount retailers were offering 42-inch Plasma HDTVs for around $1,000.

"In a sentence, (high def) panels are being sold very close to cost," Envisioneering Group analyst Richard Doherty told Variety Magazine. "The discounting this season has been in every consumer's favor even though it is hurting Best Buy and Circuit City and every other retailer's bottom line."

The Consumer Electronics Association said that the average HDTV set price dropped to $1,043 during the holidays and could fall another $200 this year.

Despite the rosy sales numbers, analysts cautioned that perhaps 50 percent of high-def owners have not obtained HD tuners, which are necessary to display the crystal-clear signals. Some consumers are unaware that the tuners are necessary while others are not satisfied with the amount of programming available in high-def. (Studies have suggested the latter group are using their new sets to watch DVDs.)

"There's still a heightened sense of emergency for people who own HDTVs frustrated by the content available to them," Frank Roshinski, vice president of Tweeter Electronics, told Variety.

Variety also reports that some DIRECTV subscribers have been informed that there is a waiting list for high-def dish installations.
______________________________________________________

For more television industry coverage, visit www.tvpredictions.com

I was just looking through the January issue of Charter's Channel Guide mag, and there is no mention/listing anywhere that KMOV is available in HD. So, given the lead time needed for publication, this tells me Charter knew that KMOV-HD was going to go dark weeks ago, if not longer. And we got, what, 1 or 2 days notice (thanks to the Post-Dispatch)?
barry

Study: HDTV Now in 35m Households; 9m New in 4th Quarter

I'm not sure I believe that HDTV household penetration increased by more than 30 percent in just the past 90 days, but nonetheless the recent sales numbers are big and it's definitely a very bad time to be fumbling the HDTV programming ball...

The following story is from the TV Predictions newsletter:
______________________________________________________

High-Definition TVs are now in approximately 35 million American homes, about one-third of total households.

That's according to the research firm Envisioneering Group.

The company says that about nine million homes acquired high-def sets during the 2006 holiday shopping season. Prior to the holidays, 26 million U.S. homes had HDTVs.

The holiday spike was driven by a sharp decline in high-def set prices, particularly flat-panel Plasma and LCDs. Wal-Mart and other discount retailers were offering 42-inch Plasma HDTVs for around $1,000.

"In a sentence, (high def) panels are being sold very close to cost," Envisioneering Group analyst Richard Doherty told Variety Magazine. "The discounting this season has been in every consumer's favor even though it is hurting Best Buy and Circuit City and every other retailer's bottom line."

The Consumer Electronics Association said that the average HDTV set price dropped to $1,043 during the holidays and could fall another $200 this year.

Despite the rosy sales numbers, analysts cautioned that perhaps 50 percent of high-def owners have not obtained HD tuners, which are necessary to display the crystal-clear signals. Some consumers are unaware that the tuners are necessary while others are not satisfied with the amount of programming available in high-def. (Studies have suggested the latter group are using their new sets to watch DVDs.)


I wonder what "average" is.

When I bought my HDTV Ready Mits a little over 5 years ago the tuner was another 1K. Not having seen HD and not knowing what I was missing I always used the money for something else.

Two page article (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=175686) dated today.

The spokesman from Belo said Charter pays other national HD channels. Hmmm.. the only HD channel similar to KMOV-HD on Charter is TNT-HD --- both have general programming and commercials. If TNT-HD was not added a few months ago would Belo have made this move in STL? ESPN-HD has commercials but is a specialized sports channel. All the rest of the "national" HD channels have very very limited commercials and I consider them premium pay channels. It is just corporate greed.

Charter says its investment in such things as video on demand makes it a good value and Charter should not have to pay for channels that are free over the air. I say charge for folks who use video on demand, dump TNT-HD (does anyone watch?) and give me my KMOV-HD back. I assume video on demand is a profit center just with all the porn offerings so don't cite it at all in this dispute.

The idea for this seems to point back to Sinclair Broadcasting....

Can't they just all get along???

Belo's decision to pull KMOV-DT has nothing to do with any other channel lineup changes. Their national contract with Charter expired, so all Belo DTV stations were pulled from Charter in all applicable markets. As for corporate greed, it is entirely the cause of this issue. Both sides have a responsibility to their stockholders to make as much money as possible, and giving away channels for free doesn't make money for Belo and paying for a channel doesn't make money for Charter. Of course, the loss in viewers for Belo and the loss in subscribers for Charter will probably end up costing both sides more in the long run, but beancounters rarely have the ability to see effects of their decisions beyond the current fiscal quarter.

Hey Charter, Here's an idea. Take all the people on your "do not solicit" list, and stop sending them all the junk mail. It is junk mail BTW. The money you would save on that alone not only would save a billion trees, but also would afford you the necessary funds to pay Belo.

Scott

How is it "greed" that Belo and Charter are doing exactly what companies are supposed to do -- maximize profit? It's clear that "corporate greed" has become such a reflex accusation that no one pays the slightest bit of attention to the actual meaning of the words.

Either economic literacy in this country has reached an all-time low, or people are simply too lazy to think for themselves, opting instead for the mindless repetition of empty slogans dished up by politicians who know the subject better than all the CEOs in the Fortune 500 combined.

Here's an interesting Dow Jones newswire article on cable television industry prospects for 2007:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0701070124jan07,0,5178201.story?coll=chi-business-hed

.....Belo's decision to pull KMOV-DT has nothing to do with any other channel lineup changes. ......

I read an article which quoted a KMOV exec. who cited other national HD channels being paid by Charter as a reason KMOV-HD should be paid.

How is it "greed" that Belo and Charter are doing exactly what companies are supposed to do -- maximize profit? It's clear that "corporate greed" has become such a reflex accusation that no one pays the slightest bit of attention to the actual meaning of the words.

Either economic literacy in this country has reached an all-time low, or people are simply too lazy to think for themselves, opting instead for the mindless repetition of empty slogans dished up by politicians who know the subject better than all the CEOs in the Fortune 500 combined.

When corporate decisions to maximize profit directly affect us it is natural to react. If I was on the receiving end of this (stockholder) my reaction would be positive. Since most are on the giving end (less channels-same cost) we need someone to blame. Obviously we have a choice and can switch to other providers.

I think much of this negative reaction is due to years of corporate decisions which affect us. Outsourcing, benefit reductions for employees, exorbitant CEO pay, and smaller Snickers bars :) All these were a result of "maximizing profit".

Charter stock trippled this last year. See, that is why I don't play the stock market. How can a company under so much debt who continues to not meet its customers expectations continue to stay in business. I don't get it. Maybe I'll sink all of my money into Ford, GM and Charter.

Scott

Maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed today and I'd be better off holding fire, but why is that we ALWAYS need someone to blame?

What is it with this country that anytime some change in the status quo occurs the first and most important order of business is to figure out who to blame, followed in close order by running to government to pass some law or impose some new policy that prevents that particular thing from ever happening again.

It's pathetic -- we're becoming a bunch of mindless cry babies.

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

In the past, we used to begin each month of the St. Louis discussion with an entirely new thread and usually that started with a cut/paste of basic resource information that is now buried back on the very first page of this discussion thread.

Because of its location, a lot of that general, introductory information about HDTV and OTA reception is now easily overlooked, especially with the discussion here stretching back more than 3 years and approaching 600 pages.

So, in order to this introductory information more accessible, I post an advisory/reminder note similar to this every couple of weeks. The idea is to make this general resource information more visible and easier to find for more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

Hopefully, you'll find this information of some use...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995679&&#post2995679)

Using An Antenna to Receive Local HD Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995718&&#post2995718)

Common Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8523674&&#post8523674)

Why Isn't KDNL-DT (ABC) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8072643&&#post8072643)

New! St. Louis Blues in HD Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8678636&&#post8678636)

2006 Survey Results: HDTV in St. Louis

Part 1: Profile of Survey Respondents (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9075182&&#post9075182)

Part 2: Local Digital Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9091629&&#post9091629)

Part 3: Digital Multicasting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9127512&&#post9127512)

Part 4: Customer Ratings for Charter, DirecTV & DISH HD Services (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9157953&&#post9157953)

Part 5: Customer Ratings for Pay TV HD Channels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9315435&&#post9315435)

Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

Maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed today and I'd be better off holding fire, but why is that we ALWAYS need someone to blame?

What is it with this country that anytime some change in the status quo occurs the first and most important order of business is to figure out who to blame, followed in close order by running to government to pass some law or impose some new policy that prevents that particular thing from ever happening again.

It's pathetic -- we're becoming a bunch of mindless cry babies.


Dont worry, the Colts will lose

True about the blame Doug.

Saddam is hanged. Kid sees video of it on Youtube. Kid try it and dies. Parents want to blame someone, so they blame Youtube. Parents sue Youtube. Now we're all supposed to cry for strict government control or censorship over Youtube.
I get sick of it too.

Scott

Good Sunday morning all.

Scott.............That Dallas lost was crazy... Go Colts.

Philly over NY and Brady of Jets. Although I would like to see the Patriots LOSE BIG!

Yes, the Dallas loss was nuts. Maybe we shold "blame" Romo. Sorry Doug, I got carried away. I hope Philly beats the snot out of Manning and The Jets beat the Pats. The Chargers owe the Jets a good ass whippin' for all the times the Jets killed 'em. Picture and sound was pretty good yesterday on NBC with only a few minor hiccups.

Scott

Yeah, I watched it via OTA on my HR20. NBC really needs to do something about when
they go to a replay and then come back with the graphic "splash screen" before live play.

It takes a few seconds to refocus. Kind of weird. The HR20 did present me with an audio
out of sync for a second, but I rewound it a few seconds, press play and it cleared up.

I just want to commend Ken (kdg454) for the great work he is doing in answering all the questions about DISH Network ..........

Ditto Ditto. Ditto. Etc.

Ken, while on the subject of Dish Q&A I have one for you that I'm sure you can speak volumes:

I have a 622 with a legacy 300 pointed at 61.5 and a legacy 500 pointed at 110 and 119. I've decided It's time to get a 500 PLUS for my HD locals. Therefore, everything will need to be upgraded and replaced with Dish Pro. Here's my question: How can this best be done with as little out-of-pocket $$$ as possible?

It seems every time I call into Customer care I get a different answer. I would do a self-install if only they would send me the hardware. But that doesn't seem to be an option.

Any advice?

I thought you needed the 1000+ for that.

Yeah, what is up with the out of focus shot when they return to the main long shot? That has been happening all year.

Scott

Probably something Charter did... Sorry, I just had to blame someone.

HR 99999: "The sports camera focus bill"

rider: "candy bar enlargement"

I thought you needed the 1000+ for that.

Not sure I need that giant space ship on my roof if I keep my 300 pointed at 61.5 for Voom. This is part of the problem. There are different solutions and I'm not sure which way is best.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

UNBELIEVABLE! What's up with Charter in St.Louis? This has been like this for a few days. Anyone know anything about this? And will it be resolved before the Conference Championships on January 21st? I am having about 12 to 15 buddies over that day for cards and football. That CBS game will look like total crap blown up to 110" in SD!


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Thanks for any input you might have.

Mike

Local issue. Call Charter.

Merged with local topic.

Ditto Ditto. Ditto. Etc.

Ken, while on the subject of Dish Q&A I have one for you that I'm sure you can speak volumes:

I have a 622 with a legacy 300 pointed at 61.5 and a legacy 500 pointed at 110 and 119. I've decided It's time to get a 500 PLUS for my HD locals. Therefore, everything will need to be upgraded and replaced with Dish Pro. Here's my question: How can this best be done with as little out-of-pocket $$$ as possible?

It seems every time I call into Customer care I get a different answer. I would do a self-install if only they would send me the hardware. But that doesn't seem to be an option.

Any advice?
Moman,
IIRC, you currently subscribe to locals through Dish....yes? If you do, it's completely on Dish. The digitals are included in the locals subscription at no additional charge. It was not your decision that Dish put them up on 118. Dish MUST provide you the means to receive that signal at no cost to you....period! This is no different than when Dish added the 300's in STL to receive the 3 IND locals they put on 61.5, several years ago.

You should call AHDTS, and tell them your "technical problem" is you can't receive the digital locals from sat 118. 800-969-4388. You should end up with a 1000+ and DPP44 switch, and installation, and FREE.

If you don't get it set up, and at no cost, send me a PM.

Doc,

It's feasible that this dustup with Belo might be resolved in a couple of weeks, but I wouldn't go "all in" with that play. So, you may want to look into getting a rooftop/attic/indoor antenna and OTA receiver lined up before your beer and buddies bash.

I sent you a link to the start of this subject back on Wednesday. There's several tips along the way on sourcing an OTA receiver, as well as more comprehensive options if you're in a mind to throw Charter overboard, as many are now contemplating.

Mike,

Look over the posts in this thread over the last few days to get an idea what's up with Charter. Also, you may want to call D* and E*.

Scott

I have Charter as many of know.

I was wondering if this is possible and what are my choices.

I receive HD through Charter and Antenna. In light of recent events with Belo, can I get a HD D* or E* DVR just to use for my antenna feed to have the buffer for HD antenna events.

I am not looking to sign up for their service. I just want to use their HD DVR to buffer my antenna feed.

Is this possible? And if so, what model numbers should I look for on eBay?

Thanks,

wolverine5767

i 2 am furious about this cbs/belo/charter tibacle
being an avid football fan and HD suscriber that has a charter bill of over 100 a month

I EXPECT MORE
not less


cbs is struggling
and we are the ones that get shat on in the end

so i have compiled all the necess. emails of of companys so maybe they can here how we feel

if it matters?

I think the easiest, cheapest way to get OTA locals (my tv doesn't have a built in tuner) is to pick up an H20 DirecTv receiver from BB. I think its about $100.

Would this work, I really don't want to hassel with Ebay for a used one?

Tim

Not sure I need that giant space ship on my roof if I keep my 300 pointed at 61.5 for Voom. This is part of the problem. There are different solutions and I'm not sure which way is best.
There are currently only 2 solutions, Mo.
You have to have that dual-band LNB capable of receiving the DBS and FSS band signals. Currently that LNB is only available as a dual unit, mounted on either the 500+ or 1000+, and must be supported by the DPP44 switch.

The 1000+ and the 500+ are exactly the same size reflector, 23.8" x 30.9". The only difference between the 2 is an additional wing/strut for the 129 LNB.
So, that's your 2 options. a 500+ with your 300, or a 1000+.

BTW, 129 reception in STL is not any issue, it's fine.

Yes, the Dallas loss was nuts. Maybe we shold "blame" Romo.
Scott
I dunno....the season for 3 dates with Jess?
sounds like an even trade to me!

i 2 am furious about this cbs/belo/charter tibacle
being an avid football fan and HD suscriber that has a charter bill of over 100 a month

I EXPECT MORE
not less


cbs is struggling
and we are the ones that get shat on in the end

so i have compiled all the necess. emails of of companys so maybe they can here how we feel

if it matters?

lol...CBS is struggling? Have you seen their stock price or the ratings?

As you pay over $100 to Charter and they pay nothing to Belo/CBS, why in the world would you send emails to CBS or Belo? Complain with your money, not your email.

I read an article which quoted a KMOV exec. who cited other national HD channels being paid by Charter as a reason KMOV-HD should be paid.I was responding to your line "If TNT-HD was not added a few months ago would Belo have made this move in STL?". The answer to that question is that regardless of Charter adding TNTHD, Belo would have still dropped due to the expiration date on the contract.
When corporate decisions to maximize profit directly affect us it is natural to react. If I was on the receiving end of this (stockholder) my reaction would be positive. Since most are on the giving end (less channels-same cost) we need someone to blame. Obviously we have a choice and can switch to other providers.If I was planning to dump Charter real quick, I would positive, but in the long term, I believe this will hurt Charter as people jump ship to go to E* and D*. Belo can afford the temporary loss of viewers more than Charter can afford the loss of subscribers for at least the term of the committment for D*/E*.
Yeah, I watched it via OTA on my HR20. NBC really needs to do something about when they go to a replay and then come back with the graphic "splash screen" before live play.

It takes a few seconds to refocus. Kind of weird. The HR20 did present me with an audio out of sync for a second, but I rewound it a few seconds, press play and it cleared up.I would bet that KSDK is using the Harris Flexicoder as their HD encoder like most other Gannett stations and about 60% of NBC affiliates. The problem is caused by a setting in the encoder known as adaptive prefilter. If it is enabled, the video blurs horizontally for a few seconds on certain scene changes. The Flexicoder's manual explicitely states not to use it for HD, and NBC sent out a tech bulletin back at the start of the NFL preseason telling their stations not to use it.

No, I'm not sure they are encrypted and I believe that my response indicates that. Likewise, I'm not aware that there is any FCC requirement for digital locals to be freely available and accessible via QAM tuners, and I never claimed that it was. However, (like you) I have seen this reported many times online. Whether that's true or Internet legend, I don't know.

What does seem certain, based on past reports from Charter customers here, is that the local digitals are not availble from Charter via a QAM-capable tuner. Whether that violates an FCC order, I don't know and my search of the web for some evidence that this is actually a requirement came up empty. Again, that's not to say that it is or isn't a requirement, and if this is important to you or anyone else, I suggest that you conduct your own search or contact the FCC to locate the relevant document/ruling.

FWIW, in doing my search this morning, I did stumble across a document that addresses the claim that cable systems are supposed to provide, upon customer request, high-definition receivers with functional Firewire AND DVI/HDMI outputs.This is another "cable company requirement" that is regularly quoted online but one that I've never seen documented. So, I thought I'd go ahead and provide that reference here.

Note that it's possible that this ruling subsequently has been superceded by another ruling, but I didn't attempt to determine if that was the case. If you do a search for FCC rulings, you'll find that the agency rules on so many things (even within a fairly specific set of search terms) that it's very difficult to know what is and isn't required.

Another case, no doubt, where less would be better than more. :)

For future reference, the Firewire and DVI/HDMI excerpt can be found here (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf) (second page of excerpt, Subpart L, 4(i) and (ii):
__________________________________________________________

(i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade the customer’s set-top box by download or other means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.

(ii) Effective July 1, 2005, include both a DVI or HDMI interface and an IEEE 1394 interface on all high definition set-top boxes acquired by a cable operator for distribution to customers.
__________________________________________________________

Again, let me state that it is possible that this rule has been overturned by another. It's also possible that the document cited is bogus, as it is an excerpt and does not come directly from the FCC web site.

This issue about Firewire and DVI/HDMI comes up here a lot. Maybe someone else can use this as a starting point to determine what EXACTLY is required.


All I can say is that with an Olevia 237V (has a QAM tuner but i've read that it's somewhat "weak"), on Charter regular extended cable, I canNOT get my local HD channels. I do get a bunch of weird and mostly useless digital channels up in the 99 and 100's though - as mentioned previously, I get 5.2 the NBC weather substation but I do NOT get 5.1 the regular NBC channel. I'm guessing charter is doing "something" to prevent me getting 5.1

Is the basic consensus that it is impossible to get local HD channels over Charter cable with a QAM tuner? I guess I'll be stuck with an antenna and will have to rescan channels each time I switch between OTA and cable *sigh*

There are currently only 2 solutions, Mo.
You have to have that dual-band LNB capable of receiving the DBS and FSS band signals. Currently that LNB is only available as a dual unit, mounted on either the 500+ or 1000+, and must be supported by the DPP44 switch.

The 1000+ and the 500+ are exactly the same size reflector, 23.8" x 30.9". The only difference between the 2 is an additional wing/strut for the 129 LNB.
So, that's your 2 options. a 500+ with your 300, or a 1000+.

BTW, 129 reception in STL is not any issue, it's fine.

Ken,

Thanks for the advice. I knew you would know this. If I understand you correctly, the 1000+ will eliminate the need for the 300 pointed to 61.5, right? Yet I would still receive VOOM?

Now if only their Customer Care dept. would understand this. I'll call the number you gave and will cross my fingers.

Yes- you can't use KSDK to test the quality of your HD set. The quality of the picture seems ok if there is no movement, but any movement at all makes things blurry for a while. If you get close to the set you see a ton of jittering pixels around the motion. This is especally bad during sports like Football. So, us on charter are stuck with one channel that we can watch half of the NFL games (not including the Superbowl), and the quality of that channel sucks? We'll be swithcing before the next season starts.

I really thought the problem was my set until I watched hockey on HDNET. The hockey was so crystal clear that I figured it HAD to be KSDK.



I was responding to your line "If TNT-HD was not added a few months ago would Belo have made this move in STL?". The answer to that question is that regardless of Charter adding TNTHD, Belo would have still dropped due to the expiration date on the contract.
If I was planning to dump Charter real quick, I would positive, but in the long term, I believe this will hurt Charter as people jump ship to go to E* and D*. Belo can afford the temporary loss of viewers more than Charter can afford the loss of subscribers for at least the term of the committment for D*/E*.
I would bet that KSDK is using the Harris Flexicoder as their HD encoder like most other Gannett stations and about 60% of NBC affiliates. The problem is caused by a setting in the encoder known as adaptive prefilter. If it is enabled, the video blurs horizontally for a few seconds on certain scene changes. The Flexicoder's manual explicitely states not to use it for HD, and NBC sent out a tech bulletin back at the start of the NFL preseason telling their stations not to use it.

Ken,

Thanks for the advice. I knew you would know this. If I understand you correctly, the 1000+ will eliminate the need for the 300 pointed to 61.5, right? Yet I would still receive VOOM?
Now if only their Customer Care dept. would understand this. I'll call the number you gave and will cross my fingers.
Correct.

When my 1000+ was installed, being it was one of the first in STL, I had the installer leave the 300 pointed at 61.5, and its downfeed dangling disconnected next to the switch, in the event, I encountered reception issues with 129. Turned out 129 is fine, and I've since removed the 300 from the roof.

Everything you now receive on 61.5 is on 129 also.
You currently receive orbitals 110/119/61.5.
With the 1000+, you will add 118, and replace 61.5 with 129.

Once installed, when your receivers are checked-in, they will immediately see all your Vooms coming in from 129 instead of 61.5, and also recognize the 2 spots from 118 carrying the STL local digitals.

FOX's HD PQ of today's Giants/Eagles game is outstanding. IMO, noticeably better than both CBS's and NBC's earlier game(s).

I was already looking forward to tomorrow nights BCS game...really am now.

Too back FOX doesn't have the SB.

OK, pause off....back to the game.
shush...some of us are watching delayed :D

LG Announces Dual-Format HD Disc Player

The following excerpt is from HDTV Magazine:
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Blending the latest technologies and offering unprecedented flexibility to consumers seeking the convenience of playing both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD high-definition content, LG Electronics (LG), a leader in consumer electronics and mobile communications, today launched the groundbreaking "Super Multi Blue" Player at the 2007 International CES®.

Launching in the United States during the first quarter of 2007, this advanced dual-format high-definition disc player, LG model BH100, will be the first player on the market with...
_________________________________________________________

For the complete story at HDTV Magazine, click here (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/lg_electronics.php)

**********, NETGEAR Announce Plans to Collaborate on HD Content

Note: B-i-t-T-o-r-r-e-n-t is a banned word at AVS. :eek:

This story ought to ruin a few meals for the Hollywood types attending CES...

The following is an excerpt from a HDTV Magazine news story:
____________________________________________________________ _

NETGEAR today announced an ongoing collaboration and agreement with **********, Inc. to promote video downloads streamed to high-definition televisions (HDTVs) through the new NETGEAR Digital Entertainer HD (EVA8000) media receiver.

**********, home to the world's leading peer-assisted digital content delivery platform, will work with NETGEAR on marketing and technology initiatives to deliver the highest quality and fastest distribution of media files over home networks.
____________________________________________________________ _

To read the full HDTV Magazine story, click here (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/netgearreg_and_3.php)

FOX's HD PQ of today's Giants/Eagles game is outstanding. IMO, noticeably better than both CBS's and NBC's earlier game(s).

I was already looking forward to tomorrow nights BCS game...really am now.

Too back FOX doesn't have the SB.

OK, pause off....back to the game.
shush...some of us are watching delayed :D

Wasn't that impressive? I can't remember such richness in a broadcast in a long time. First rate.

Wasn't that impressive? I can't remember such richness in a broadcast in a long time. First rate.
The last time I recall that "wow" thought was when we viewed that HD DVD demo at American.