LG Announces Dual-Format HD Disc Player

The following excerpt is from HDTV Magazine:
_________________________________________________________

Blending the latest technologies and offering unprecedented flexibility to consumers seeking the convenience of playing both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD high-definition content, LG Electronics (LG), a leader in consumer electronics and mobile communications, today launched the groundbreaking "Super Multi Blue" Player at the 2007 International CES®.

Launching in the United States during the first quarter of 2007, this advanced dual-format high-definition disc player, LG model BH100, will be the first player on the market with...
_________________________________________________________

For the complete story at HDTV Magazine, click here (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/lg_electronics.php)

$1,200....maybe next year :(

http://members.aol.com/kdg454/lgj.jpg

All I can say is that with an Olevia 237V (has a QAM tuner but i've read that it's somewhat "weak"), on Charter regular extended cable, I canNOT get my local HD channels. I do get a bunch of weird and mostly useless digital channels up in the 99 and 100's though - as mentioned previously, I get 5.2 the NBC weather substation but I do NOT get 5.1 the regular NBC channel. I'm guessing charter is doing "something" to prevent me getting 5.1

Is the basic consensus that it is impossible to get local HD channels over Charter cable with a QAM tuner? I guess I'll be stuck with an antenna and will have to rescan channels each time I switch between OTA and cable *sigh*

Hey Wozzer, I recognize you from the olevia thread :D Just to confirm for other charterites, I too with my olevia 237 do not get any hd channels by QAM. I can get:

79-10 - charter's vod/ppv commercial channel
81-1 thru 81-6 - ESPN Full court basketball
82-3 + 82-4 - PBS and PBS kids sub channel
82-6 - CW's sub channel thetube
83-7 - infomercials
90-15 - local real estate
93-61 thru 93-72 - blank with 93-72 having charter's vod/ppv commercials running in a tiny box in the upper right corner
102-3 - ksdk's sub channel weather
105-6 - abc
105-7 my46stl
105-8 thru 106-9 - various infomercials, charter ads, a single espn full court basketball game, cspan, religious channels, home shopping
106-10 - wgn
106-11 thru 118-30 - more religious channels and infomercials with 118-30 the tvguide channel
After 118-30 - Other people's vod

Again, zero hd channels using my olevia 237's QAM tuner. I'll be getting a samsung ota hd/QAM set top box in the next week or so so I'll be able to see if it picks up any additional channels over the olevia's tuner.

In light of recent events with Belo, can I get a HD D* or E* DVR just to use for my antenna feed to have the buffer for HD antenna events.

I am not looking to sign up for their service. I just want to use their HD DVR to buffer my antenna feed.

Is this possible? And if so, what model numbers should I look for on eBay?



No, not possible (at least with D*).

The last time I recall that "wow" thought was when we viewed that HD DVD demo at American.

Little did I realize then that I'd be hooked on HD DVD so quickly. I was still adamantly in the "I'm going to wait" camp. I'd still be there if not for discovering how to burn my own.

One thing that the demo did was make me want to see King Kong, especially those amazing night scenes with Kong and Naomi Watts. I was thinking about that demo the other night when I watched Kong on the Toshiba A2. It was striking then and it's still striking. Let's hope something like the LG player you found helps put an end to this stupid HD "war."

I have been experiencing audio dropouts on KTVI 2.1 OTA during Sunday football. I've been having this problem for the last several weeks. It happens numerous times during the game and last for about 5-6 seconds. I have this running through my HD 10-250 TIVO unit. Any answers?

oldavman,

This is a widely reported problem that is related to the recent TiVo firmware update. DirecTV are aware of the problem and have actually produced an update that is being rolled out now, though I've read mixed reports on whether it actually eliminates the issue.

The interim solution is to change channels and then change back -- this will usually clear it up, at least for a while.

Speaking of DirecTIVO problems, everyone needs to have a look at their Season Passes and recording history. The guide data is screwed up across the board and all DirecTIVOs (not just the HR10-250) are having problems with scheduled shows not getting recorded. The TODO history will show items won't record for various incorrect reasons, causing missed shows if you don't go in and change them to record anyway.

One of the speaker outputs on my surround sound receiver doesn't seem to be working. At first, I thought it was a speaker problem because I had moved some furniture and might have pulled a connection loose. When I took my right speaker and plugged it into my left output (the one with no sound), I got nothing. When I plugged my left speaker into my right output, it worked fine.

Any thoughts on what might be causing this problem and whether or not it would be worth fixing. If it's fixable, thoughts on where to take it and how long it might take and how much it would cost?

Jason

Is the basic consensus that it is impossible to get local HD channels over Charter cable with a QAM tuner? I guess I'll be stuck with an antenna and will have to rescan channels each time I switch between OTA and cable *sigh*Until someone comes along and reports success in getting the digital locals via Charter and a QAM tuner, yes, the consensus is that this is not possible.

Not sure about what you mean about re-scanning between cable and OTA, but it sounds like a huge pain in the ass. Your TV doesn't have separate RF inputs for cable and OTA?

AMD Unveils PC-based Digital Cable Tuner/DVR

Note that this product includes a separate OTA tuner -- this would eliminate being locked out of KDNL-DT and KMOV-DT as a result of contractual wrangles...

The following excerpt is from HDTV Magazine:
_________________________________________________________

AMD today unveiled the ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner - the industry's first and only device that enables users to watch and record premium HD digital cable content, such as HD ESPN and HD HBO, on their PCs.

The ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner turns a PC into a Personal Video Recorder (PVR) with easy to use Microsoft Windows Vista Media Center menus and interfaces. It is scheduled to be available starting at the end of January.
_________________________________________________________

To read the complete HDTV Magazine story, click here (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/amd_announces_h.php)

Little did I realize then that I'd be hooked on HD DVD so quickly. I was still adamantly in the "I'm going to wait" camp. I'd still be there if not for discovering how to burn my own.

One thing that the demo did was make me want to see King Kong, especially those amazing night scenes with Kong and Naomi Watts. I was thinking about that demo the other night when I watched Kong on the Toshiba A2. It was striking then and it's still striking. Let's hope something like the LG player you found helps put an end to this stupid HD "war."
JFTR, Doug posted the story, I just put up the pix :)

I wonder if now, this will temporarily defuse this format war. I would guess both parties, HD DVD and BluRay had to allow licensing for LG to produce this dual-format player.

Is this just the "next step," in the on-going dispute, or is this the finale, and both formats will become the standard of the next 20 years, as DVD has been for the past 20 years?

Is this just the "next step," in the on-going dispute, or is this the finale, and both formats will become the standard of the next 20 years, as DVD has been for the past 20 years?Ken, my take is that this really solves little, especially in view of the high price. But even assuming that in a model year or two from now the price is reasonable, there are two bigger, related issues.

The bigger problem is discs, particularly from a retailer or rental outlet standpoint. Stocking multiple formats and dealing with customers buying/ordering the wrong one (not everyone is going to have a hybrid player) will drive unnecessary costs for these guys and cause them to stock fewer items than they would if there was a single HD format.

I think a dual-disc format is more important than hybrid players, but even dual discs don't solve the problem, because some studios are only the in HD DVD camp and others are only supporting Blu-ray. So, not all titles would be available on dual discs.

What we really need is hybrid players, dual discs and universal support of both formats by all studios. Absent any one of these, and the problem of conflicting formats remain.

Until someone comes along and reports success in getting the digital locals via Charter and a QAM tuner, yes, the consensus is that this is not possible.

Not sure about what you mean about re-scanning between cable and OTA, but it sounds like a huge pain in the ass. Your TV doesn't have separate RF inputs for cable and OTA?

I have the same tv as Wozzer, an Olevia 237, and no it does not have separate rf inputs for cable and ota. Black friday deals made up for that lack of separate inputs for me :D

I was with charter for the last 10 months and I am moving to DISH on 1/20 because of the CBS issue, I live in Fenton area ,should I buy an antenna or just stick with dish vip 622 and dish HD. I would like to get PBS in HD if possible. Is anybody living close to Fenton. What type of antenna should I get it if I decide to get it? Any input is appreicated

Speaking of DirecTIVO problems, everyone needs to have a look at their Season Passes and recording history. The guide data is screwed up across the board and all DirecTIVOs (not just the HR10-250) are having problems with scheduled shows not getting recorded. The TODO history will show items won't record for various incorrect reasons, causing missed shows if you don't go in and change them to record anyway.

My guide data was screwed up for about 24 hours. My To Do list is fine and recording shows like it's supposed to. I have two issues. I am having problems forcing a phone call. That problem may be the modem slowly dying. The other is the audio drop outs. I still have 6.3a software. This is getting very tiresome. When I called to complain they gave me Showtime for 6 months. I am already getting $25 in various credits every month.

I noticed an ad on CNN that the cast of 24 will be on Larry King tonight.

My guide data was screwed up for about 24 hours. My To Do list is fine and recording shows like it's supposed to. I have two issues. I am having problems forcing a phone call. That problem may be the modem slowly dying. The other is the audio drop outs. I still have 6.3a software. This is getting very tiresome. When I called to complain they gave me Showtime for 6 months. I am already getting $25 in various credits every month.My TIVO problem with Season Passes not recording etc. is not an isolated event. It's a problem affecting all DirecTIVO software versions (even 3.1). It is being discussed in the Tivo Comm. Forum.

I was with charter for the last 10 months and I am moving to DISH on 1/20 because of the CBS issue, I live in Fenton area ,should I buy an antenna or just stick with dish vip 622 and dish HD. I would like to get PBS in HD if possible. Is anybody living close to Fenton. What type of antenna should I get it if I decide to get it? Any input is appreicated

Definitely get an antenna. You won't get PBS HD (Ch. 9) without one. You'll love the 622. It's a great piece of technology, and you'll have access to lots of new HD channels when you make the switch.

You'll need a UHF only antenna, which generally works better than the UHF/VHF combo type for pulling in the digital stations. If you're a DIYer, it's not that hard to install. I'll let Mo or someone else guide you if you need an installer. She's our resident expert on antennas.

Don't get hurt in the stampede away from Charter. :)

My TIVO problem with Season Passes not recording etc. is not an isolated event. It's a problem affecting all DirecTIVO software versions (even 3.1). It is being discussed in the Tivo Comm. Forum.

I agree and it's posted all over TCF. I did have the problem, but it was brief. It recorded two programs last night and I keep checking my To Do list. I did reboot to try to fix the phone connecting. But many at TCF are saying a re-boot does not work.

I was with charter for the last 10 months and I am moving to DISH on 1/20 because of the CBS issue, I live in Fenton area ,should I buy an antenna or just stick with dish vip 622 and dish HD. I would like to get PBS in HD if possible. Is anybody living close to Fenton. What type of antenna should I get it if I decide to get it? Any input is appreicated

Hopefully someone who lives in Fenton will post what antenna they are using. First step is to visit antennaweb.org. That will get you started.

Go to antennaweb.org and enter all of your information. (You can leave your email & phone info out). Click the radio button for Show Digital Stations Only. This will give you an idea what antenna you need. Click on the Street Level Map to see the directions for the towers.

Joe is being much too generous. I have just done a lot of trial and error and reading.

Hopefully someone who lives in Fenton will post what antenna they are using. First step is to visit antennaweb.org. That will get you started.

Go to antennaweb.org and enter all of your information. (You can leave your email & phone info out). Click the radio button for Show Digital Stations Only. This will give you an idea what antenna you need. Click on the Street Level Map to see the directions for the towers.

Joe is being much too generous. I have just done a lot of trial and error and reading.

I'm in Fenton and use a silver sensor. Reception is fine, I can get fox, cbs, nbc, pbs, cw, and abc with no drop outs other than an occasional stutter on abc.

FYI

Ken was right, the Dish installs are backing up. I just scheduled an upgrade install and got a date of Jan 22. If you want to be in before the Super Bowl, it looks like you should hurry.

U guys ROCK!!! within minutes I get 7-8 responses ,thanks a lot, I guess I will try silver sensor. No wonder the server says busy all the time :)

The more people that leave Charter, the better bandwidth I'll have. The more HD channels they drop, the more bandwidth they'll have for the remaining ones. My product will be superior!!!!

The more people that leave Charter, the better bandwidth I'll have. The more HD channels they drop, the more bandwidth they'll have for the remaining ones. My product will be superior!!!!

The more people that leave Charter, the better bandwidth I'll have. The more HD channels they drop, the more bandwidth they'll have for the remaining ones. My product will be superior!!!!
That's one way of looking at it.

The more people that leave Charter, the better bandwidth I'll have. The more HD channels they drop, the more bandwidth they'll have for the remaining ones. My product will be superior!!!!

Literally LOL! That is one way to look at it. :)

Scott

The more people that leave Charter, the better bandwidth I'll have. The more HD channels they drop, the more bandwidth they'll have for the remaining ones. My product will be superior!!!!Someone has mastered the art of Reductio ad Absurdum... ;)

And somewhere in that pile of horse manure, there's a pony underneath.

Hear Me Now, Believe Me Later!

DirecTV sees 100 HD channels, Net videos in '07

100 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070108/tc_nm/electronics_show_directv_dc_1)

DirecTV sees 100 HD channels, Net videos in '07

100 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070108/tc_nm/electronics_show_directv_dc_1)

DirecTV +100
Charter -1

This is good news and one of the reasons I will continue to feed my D* habit. :D

Scott

FYI

Ken was right, the Dish installs are backing up. I just scheduled an upgrade install and got a date of Jan 22. If you want to be in before the Super Bowl, it looks like you should hurry.

I called them on the 23 of Dec, I believe, I didn't get an install date until the 10th. I think alot of that wait had to with the holidays.

Two days until i get to tell charter to shove it! :D

DirecTV sees 100 HD channels, Net videos in '07

100 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070108/tc_nm/electronics_show_directv_dc_1)


I'm not trying to be an ass but ... with the HDLite bandwidth problems already occuring, how are they going to push all that content?

I'm not trying to be an ass but ... with the HDLite bandwidth problems already occuring, how are they going to push all that content?

They have a new product that is mpeg4 compression. It is called "HD-Liter."

Scott

It will also be interesting to see what the charges end up being. "Secured agreements" with = big money, and someone has to pay. I think I'll wait a year and see what's offered next year in my market before doing anything. Cause this sounds great if it works :-) ATT is also hitting my town later this year, so hopefully the options will be plentiful.

I'm not trying to be an ass but ... with the HDLite bandwidth problems already occuring, how are they going to push all that content?

Because that content doesn't exist. IIRC we had a conversation along these lines before. Because D* said they would have availability on sats for 100 HD channels. But the channels did not exist. However this new news does say D* is working with broadcasters to make the channels possible, so maybe.

I'm not trying to be an ass but ... with the HDLite bandwidth problems already occuring, how are they going to push all that content?

2 new sats and MPEG 4.

DISH Network Announces Free 622 DVR Offer for New Customers

The following story excerpt is from HDTV Magazine:
__________________________________________________________

EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH) and its DISH Network™ satellite TV service announced today that it will offer new DISH Network customers the highly-acclaimed, high definition ViP622 DVR™ receiver for free as part of the Digital Home Advantage Program. The ViP622 DVR is the first HD DVR in the satellite industry to be offered with no upfront cost to new subscribers, giving viewers a unique opportunity to experience the exciting world of HD and commercial-free TV.
__________________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/dish_network_of.php)

The fact that DirecTV will have lots of available bandwidth and is apparently prioritizing HD channels, this will give programmers greater incentive to develop HD services.

I think that one of the first big batch of additions that you'll see when DirecTV actually gets around to turning open the HD valve will be East/West feeds of the main HD movie channels. Right there, you're probably looking at a dozen or more new feeds. Personally I think it's totally pointless to waste space on East/West feeds when so many HD customers are utilizing DVRs, but I guess they can always be retrenched when there's something of higher value available.

The main difference between DirecTV and Charter when it comes to HD, is DirecTV has clearly made HD programming a priority, though they have been talking about it forever and still have not delivered. Charter, on the other hand, says nothing about HD services, because it's clearly not a priority. Again, I think the best evidence for that is the lack of HD hardware available for new subscribers. That isn't something that caught Charter by surprise.

Charter is simply more focused on the other elements of the triple play (Net access and local phone), because these add more money, more quickly to the bottom line than what they'd realize from incremental video sales via HD add-ons. I think they're overlooking (or at least underestimating) the bottom line cost of HD customer defections, which seem to growing in volume and will probably continue to do so unless Charter changes course.

Until Charter steps up and makes HD a speaking-out-loud priority, anyone sitting there expecting it to happen organically is going to be disappointed.

I recently installed a Radio Shack U-75 UHF antenna. I got the aiming from the web and can get most St Louis locals. I am in a horrible area at the bottom of a hill with houses in direct line of the station transmitters. The mount is currently outside on my deck. I would probably have a better / higher shot if I moved it to my attic but the cable run would be more than double. I have also heard that an antenna mounted in the attic looses about 50% of it's pulling power.
I currently get stuttering and digitizing on ABC / CBS if the weather is bad. Would an amp or pre-amp help? If so, what would you recommend?
I need all the help you can give me!

Thanks in advance :D

The main difference between DirecTV and Charter when it comes to HD, is DirecTV has clearly made HD programming a priority, though they have been talking about it forever and still have not delivered. Charter, on the other hand, says nothing about HD services, because it's clearly not a priority. Again, I think the best evidence for that is the lack of HD hardware available for new subscribers. That isn't something that caught Charter by surprise.

Charter is simply more focused on the other elements of the triple play (Net access and local phone), because these add more money, more quickly to the bottom line than what they'd realize from incremental video sales via HD add-ons. I think they're overlooking (or at least underestimating) the bottom line cost of HD customer defections, which seem to growing in volume and will probably continue to do so unless Charter changes course.

Until Charter steps up and makes HD a speaking-out-loud priority, anyone sitting there expecting it to happen organically is going to be disappointed.

I'll buy that about Charter prioritizing the "triple play"...but if that completely true, why do they waste so much effort on their stupid video on-demand service? They are so proud of it and act like it's revolutionary or something. I don't use it and I don't know anyone who does. With Netflix and Blockbuster's Online service, why would anyone waste $4 a movie on that junk?

Charter has a high-ranking fool somewhere. They have no outlook for the future. They should be increasing HD service because it's obviously the "wave of the future". ...but the should also offer on-demmand as pay subscribtion service. Charter could crush Netflix or Blockbuster if they offered it for similar to netflix, like 6 movies a month for $10 or something.

I guess when you have a monopoly, you can do as you please, but monopoly or not, I would think they would want to be a "revolutionary" company for at least ego purposes.

I recently installed a Radio Shack U-75 UHF antenna. I got the aiming from the web and can get most St Louis locals. I am in a horrible area at the bottom of a hill with houses in direct line of the station transmitters. The mount is currently outside on my deck. I would probably have a better / higher shot if I moved it to my attic but the cable run would be more than double. I have also heard that an antenna mounted in the attic looses about 50% of it's pulling power.
I currently get stuttering and digitizing on ABC / CBS if the weather is bad. Would an amp or pre-amp help? If so, what would you recommend?What stations aren't you getting?I suggest that you experiment with attic placement and see if that makes any difference.

I checked the SkyWalker (636-272-8025) catalog and they sell a 1000-foot reel of copper-clad steel RG-6 for $40, and while that's a trade price and you'll pay more, it should be well under $100. Not sure of the pure copper prices -- due to fluctuating market prices, SkyWalker are quoting spot rather than published prices.

With plenty the RG-6 you can check to see if the attic works out better for you and then deal with permanent cabling if it makes sense to do that.

I don't have much direct experience with amps/pre-amps, but it sounds like obstruction is the first problem that you should try to eliminate.

I'll buy that about Charter prioritizing the "triple play"...but if that completely true, why do they waste so much effort on their stupid video on-demand service? They are so proud of it and act like it's revolutionary or something. I don't use it and I don't know anyone who does. With Netflix and Blockbuster's Online service, why would anyone waste $4 a movie on that junk?

Charter has a high-ranking fool somewhere. They have no outlook for the future. They should be increasing HD service because it's obviously the "wave of the future". ...but the should also offer on-demmand as pay subscribtion service. Charter could crush Netflix or Blockbuster if they offered it for similar to netflix, like 6 movies a month for $10 or something.

I guess when you have a monopoly, you can do as you please, but monopoly or not, I would think they would want to be a "revolutionary" company for at least ego purposes.

There's plenty of free VOD movies ... and other material.

There's plenty of free VOD movies ... and other material.

i know, like on demand for the movie channels...but how necessary is video on demmand with dvr's? I would think that Charter's main incentive for having it though is for the pay stuff.

c'mon...is vod really the centerpiece of anyone's entertainment? like in the same way that a lot of people are ditching charter for better hd service, you think anyone is switching to charter for video-on demmand? I doubt it.

anyway, i think they would do more volume if they offered it as some package like x number of movies for y number of dollars. Why not try to compete a bit with Netflix like services? shoot, I;m just trying to make charter competitive here.

btw-I just saw a commercial for D* where the advertised "for the future of 150 HD channels"...had Doc Brown in it...

I recently installed a Radio Shack U-75 UHF antenna. I got the aiming from the web and can get most St Louis locals. I am in a horrible area at the bottom of a hill with houses in direct line of the station transmitters. The mount is currently outside on my deck. I would probably have a better / higher shot if I moved it to my attic but the cable run would be more than double. I have also heard that an antenna mounted in the attic looses about 50% of it's pulling power.
I currently get stuttering and digitizing on ABC / CBS if the weather is bad. Would an amp or pre-amp help? If so, what would you recommend?
I need all the help you can give me!

Thanks in advance :D
Is this the antenna you're using?
ANTENNA (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=2032057&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&kw=antenna+uhf&parentPage=search)
Are you about 25-30 miles from the towers.....63366?

DISH Network Announces Free 622 DVR Offer for New Customers

The following story excerpt is from HDTV Magazine:
__________________________________________________________

EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH) and its DISH Network™ satellite TV service announced today that it will offer new DISH Network customers the highly-acclaimed, high definition ViP622 DVR™ receiver for free as part of the Digital Home Advantage Program. The ViP622 DVR is the first HD DVR in the satellite industry to be offered with no upfront cost to new subscribers, giving viewers a unique opportunity to experience the exciting world of HD and commercial-free TV.
__________________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/dish_network_of.php)


Any details on this??? It's not on Dish's website yet...and I'm watching CSI Miami SD instead of HD thanks to Belo... :( If this is accurate, then Dish here I come and I'll soon have a SD Tivo and Sony DHGHDD250 HD Recorder for sell/trade!

-Matt

btw-I just saw a commercial for D* where the advertised "for the future of 150 HD channels"...had Doc Brown in it...
....or get off the pot, DTV. It's the same we've been fed for years. Most of the 100 announced at CES will go to local spots for digital locals.

Personally, I see DTV's current accelerated advertising campaign as a corner-backed company, reaching out to grasp as many customers as they can, based on nothing more, than more promises.

As Doug pointed out, there are a lot of things, beyond the control of DTV, that need to fall into place, before anyone will be seeing any real changes in their living rooms.

To the main-stream viewing public, they will be talking at work, saying, "did ya see DirecTV now has over 150 HD channels...I'm goin' with them."

Is it good advertising? Nope.
It's Great advertising!

Digeo to Begin Moxi Sales Direct to Consumers

Think the Charter hardware shortages and this move are unrelated? Think again.

The following story is from today's Sydney Morning Herald (of all places):
__________________________________________________________

In a shift in direction, Digeo Inc. announced Monday it will begin selling digital video recorders directly to consumers.

Until now, the startup backed by Microsoft Corp. co-founder Paul Allen supplied its Moxi set-top box technology to a handful of cable TV providers. Beginning in the second half of the year, consumers will be able to buy the Moxi boxes.

Digeo showed off two of its new high-definition digital media recorders at the International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. Digeo's boxes will provide basic DVR functions as well as allow users to stream HD content from the PC to the TV.

For those who want to watch recorded programs on a second television, the company will sell a smaller and less-expensive box that can receive video streams in HD.

Pricing was not disclosed. The Kirkland, Wash.-based company said it also plans to license Moxi technology to other consumer electronics manufacturers.
__________________________________________________________

Thanks to a tip from Earl on DBSTALK, there is an update window tonight and tomorrow to get a pre-release 0x115 with numerous fixes for the HR20. I am downloading it now....

HR20 update (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=75652)

Mike

I'm curious if there is anyone on here that has experience with the Moxi and either the E* 622 or the D* HR20 that could offer some comparisons. From my reading about both it seems they each have some flaws and I'm curious how they stack up with the DVR I'm used to (Moxi). Also, does anyone know what kind of antenna D* provides with the $50 add on. I currently have a Silver Sensor which can pull in all the locals, but I have to position it a bit for fine tuning and would rather just have something on the roof that I don't have to worry about. I doubt I'll need much as I'm in the south city, very close to the towers and antenna web shows all the digital channels in the yellow range.

For what it's worth, Charter did offer me a 6 month deal of $90/mo for 3mb internet and the biggest movie pack. Even with the roughly $30/mo savings that would provide I'll still save about $20/mo going to either E* or D* and ATT DSL. Figuring out where I want to go is the hard part.

Any details on this??? It's not on Dish's website yet...and I'm watching CSI Miami SD instead of HD thanks to Belo... :( If this is accurate, then Dish here I come and I'll soon have a SD Tivo and Sony DHGHDD250 HD Recorder for sell/trade!

-Matt

Per the link, deal starts Feb. 1st. I wouldn't expect it to be on the website until the deal is available.

I noticed an ad on CNN that the cast of 24 will be on Larry King tonight.

Checked and this is actually on Tuesday night. Is anyone else excited for the 4 hour premiere on Sunday/Monday?

Per the link, deal starts Feb. 1st. I wouldn't expect it to be on the website until the deal is available.

-D'oh...Sorry, must've read that part fourteen times before I saw it. The excitement went straight to my head. Looks like I'm getting an early Valentines gift!

-Matt

I'm curious if there is anyone on here that has experience with the Moxi and either the E* 622 or the D* HR20 that could offer some comparisons. From my reading about both it seems they each have some flaws and I'm curious how they stack up with the DVR I'm used to (Moxi). Also, does anyone know what kind of antenna D* provides with the $50 add on. I currently have a Silver Sensor which can pull in all the locals, but I have to position it a bit for fine tuning and would rather just have something on the roof that I don't have to worry about. I doubt I'll need much as I'm in the south city, very close to the towers and antenna web shows all the digital channels in the yellow range.

For what it's worth, Charter did offer me a 6 month deal of $90/mo for 3mb internet and the biggest movie pack. Even with the roughly $30/mo savings that would provide I'll still save about $20/mo going to either E* or D* and ATT DSL. Figuring out where I want to go is the hard part.
If you look back over the past 2-3 days, there was much discussion and comparison of the 622, HR20 and Moxi, posted by different members, using each machine. :)
IMO, the 622 is in a league by itself. Neither the HR20 or Moxi are as technologically advanced and versatile as the 622.

It really comes down to what you need from the machine, and from the provider as far as programming. From just a hardware/receiver point of view, the 622 is clearly the best HD DVR currently available in this market.
Beginning Feb 1st, it's also the only Free one.

I've heard on the grapevine that Charter is fasing out the MOXI and replacing it with this DVR from Motorola.

Motorola (http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp)

There are supposed to be two models. One for markets that haven't gone all digital, for digital box subs, and one for markets that have gone digital for digital box customers (St Louis & Madison, Wisc)

And yes they are available. Just ask, hopefully you get a knowlegable rep.

Unfortunatly I have't had first hand experience with the new DVR, but it's hard drive is larger than the MOXI, plus unlike the MOXI, the new one has slow mo, and a replay feature like TIVO.

It uses TV Guide I Guide (http://www.i-guide.tv/A23/index.html)

Hope the Charter bashing lets down soon because of the Belo issue, but we are all human.

Wolverine5767

wolverine,

I could be wrong, but Motorola is providing a hardware solution that needs software to drive it, which could be Moxi or it could be something else. I don't believe that Motorola traditionally provided software solutions and I don't think this is changing. This is more or less stated at the end of the Motorola demo.

I also seriously doubt that Charter is going to throw Moxi overboard, because Moxi is another Paul Allen company. Maybe they will also offer some low-end non-Moxi alternative for Charter DVRs, but I would expect Moxi to remain a core part of the Charter product line-up as long as Charter and Moxi are part of the same overall corporation.

And it seems to me that the Charter bashing is primarily coming from unhappy Charter customers. Once those unhappy customers have moved onto DISH, DirecTV and maybe eventually AT&T, the bashing will die down.

Checked and this is actually on Tuesday night. Is anyone else excited for the 4 hour premiere on Sunday/Monday?

I'm definitely looking forward to evenings of doing nothing other than watching the new season. I just hope I don't notice the sound blips that I have heard last season on OTA Fox.

I've heard on the grapevine that Charter is fasing out the MOXI and replacing it with this DVR from Motorola.

Motorola (http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp)

There are supposed to be two models. One for markets that haven't gone all digital, for digital box subs, and one for markets that have gone digital for digital box customers (St Louis & Madison, Wisc)

And yes they are available. Just ask, hopefully you get a knowlegable rep.

Unfortunatly I have't had first hand experience with the new DVR, but it's hard drive is larger than the MOXI, plus unlike the MOXI, the new one has slow mo, and a replay feature like TIVO.

It uses TV Guide I Guide (http://www.i-guide.tv/A23/index.html)

Hope the Charter bashing lets down soon because of the Belo issue, but we are all human.

Wolverine5767

Actually that seems like a significant downgrade from my current Moxi 9022D w/ Moxi Mate. The 9022 has a 160GB hard drive with multiroom support from the mate, while the DCT 6412 only has a 120GB hard drive and no apparent multiroom support. Additionally, the Moxi has both an optical and a coaxial digital audio output while the DCT 6412 only appears to have an optical one.

Checked and this is actually on Tuesday night. Is anyone else excited for the 4 hour premiere on Sunday/Monday?

Are you kidding?

When Jack Bauer's back on the job.... breaking all the rules, endangering civilians, disobeying direct orders, getting his partners/friends/family killed, torturing suspects, etc., I feel safer already! :D

My favorite line from last season: "The only reason you're still conscious right now is I don't want to carry you!"

All four hours have actually already hit the newsgroups and BT sites... and they don't even air for another week! :eek:

Additionally, the Moxi has both an optical and a coaxial digital audio output while the DCT 6412 only appears to have an optical one.
What type of cable feeds "coaxial digital audio?" Is this the reference to the audio cabling inside HDMI?

My BiL uses a custom made coaxial digital audio cable to feed the audio from his receiver to speakers, which uses standard gold-plated RCA pin type connectors.
Is the referenced "coaxial digital audio" output on the Moxi the same?

He means the RCA type digital out vs s/pdif

I'll buy that about Charter prioritizing the "triple play"...but if that completely true, why do they waste so much effort on their stupid video on-demand service? They are so proud of it and act like it's revolutionary or something. I don't use it and I don't know anyone who does. With Netflix and Blockbuster's Online service, why would anyone waste $4 a movie on that junk?

Charter has a high-ranking fool somewhere. They have no outlook for the future. They should be increasing HD service because it's obviously the "wave of the future". ...but the should also offer on-demmand as pay subscribtion service. Charter could crush Netflix or Blockbuster if they offered it for similar to netflix, like 6 movies a month for $10 or something.

I guess when you have a monopoly, you can do as you please, but monopoly or not, I would think they would want to be a "revolutionary" company for at least ego purposes.


I personally love OnDemand and it is one of the reasons I stick with Charter. I will admit I do not use it very often, but when nothing else is on TV ondemand is great. They continue to add more free/included content even for basic channels and although you could say a DVR does the same thing a DVR assumes you scheduled it to record. There are plenty of times my recorded list is empty and ondemand comes in handy, not to mention PPV ondemand whether its pr0n or just a movie it is just better when you get decide how to watch it.

Also keep in mind there are lot more people out there with Digital Cable boxes that have no interest, or no budget to upgrade to a DVR so ondemand is there only choice to control the timing of the programs they watch..... Now we know its not going to happen anytime soon, But HD-OnDemand would put the service over the top. So OnDemand gives you sometime the Dish providers do not and although I don't use it much it is one of the things that gets added to my list of Pros for my reasons of sticking it out with Charter.

-Phatty

I've heard on the grapevine that Charter is fasing out the MOXI and replacing it with this DVR from Motorola.

Motorola (http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp)

There are supposed to be two models. One for markets that haven't gone all digital, for digital box subs, and one for markets that have gone digital for digital box customers (St Louis & Madison, Wisc)

And yes they are available. Just ask, hopefully you get a knowlegable rep.

Unfortunatly I have't had first hand experience with the new DVR, but it's hard drive is larger than the MOXI, plus unlike the MOXI, the new one has slow mo, and a replay feature like TIVO.

It uses TV Guide I Guide (http://www.i-guide.tv/A23/index.html)

It will do everything

Hope the Charter bashing lets down soon because of the Belo issue, but we are all human.

Wolverine5767

I want This Motorola (http://broadband.motorola.com/fmtv/)

Hey everyone. New to the thread here. Thanks for all the info...btw.

I've done some reading, but I'm having a hard time determining the exact best solution for me:

Currently with Dish network:
1. HDTV using Dish 811 (non-dvr)
2. HTPC connected to HDTV to record HD-OTA
3. Dish 625 (dual tuner DVR) connected directly to den TV via S-video and
4. 2nd tuner on Dish 625 connected via coax to 2 upstairs TVs
no internet
no phone

My goals are to upgrade to an HD-DVR, and add phone and internet service

My options as I see them are to stick with Dish, upgrade to the HD-DVR, and add AT&T phone and internet service:
*$13/mo for AT&T limited local calling plan
*$20/mo for AT&T broadband

I don't really care about having a limited phone plan. It's really only for emergencies, and I suppose for allowing my sat box to dial out if need be.

My other option is Charter.
I'd do the $100 triple play whatsit and obviously add the moxi

My question is, we use the DVR a lot in one of our upstairs bedrooms. What is Charter's solution for sharing DVR'ed content accross multiple TV's? The best case scenario would probably be to have one moxi box attached to my HDTV and one SD DVR for the rest of the house's TVs, like my situation is now.

My other question is, does anybody know exactly what it would require for me to upgrade to the Dish 622? I know I need to upgrade to mpeg4 service (right?).

Company bashing aside, does anybody have any particular recommendations one way or another?

Thanks for any input

STL HDTV Survey Results - Part 6: Best Picture/Sound Ratings & HD Wish Lists

This final summary of the results of the "HDTV in St. Louis" viewer survey aims to summarize your write-in comments on the individual programs or channels you believe have provided you with the best experience in terms of picture and sound quality. There is also a summary of another free-form "wish list" question on the programs or channels you'd like to have available in the HDTV format.

Dealing with the answers to open-ended questions in this sort of survey can be a challenge, as the number and range of different approaches for answering such questions is (and was) virtually unlimited. As a result, trying to boil down nearly 700 different replies to this set of questions is a little bit like trying to get toothpaste back into the tube once it's escaped. But that didn't stop me from trying, and in several cases I needed to make some subjective decisions on how to group together certain different, but related, replies.

As in previous sections of the survey, points were awarded on the basis of first mentions getting three points; second mentions, two points and third mentions, a single point.

Viewer Favorites - Picture Quality

The majority of the answers provided here were for specific programs, but in other cases respondents simply named a channel that they believe provides consistently first-rate video. In other cases, "types" of programs were named, such as Discovery shows "about bugs eating bugs" or something as broad as "Football."

Among regularly scheduled programs, "Lost" was the favorite of viewers (51 points), but only by a slim margin over "CSI: Miami" (48) and the original "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" (38). Interestingly, not a single viewer mentioned "CSI: New York," though a few respondents answered "all CSIs." It was also interesting that the bulk of the votes given to "Lost" came from DirecTV viewers. Not quite sure what to make of that, though I do wonder about how much a factor "HD Lite" was here for DirecTV respondents.

Other programs that received a significant number of votes or mentions included "Prison Break," "The Tonight Show," and PBS's "Legends of Jazz."

For non-series programming, the most common citation for picture quality was some variation on "NFL Football," whether it be "NFL," "FOX NFL," "CBS NFL games," "ABC Monday Night Football," "ESPN Monday Night Football," "ESPN Sunday Night Football," "NBC Sunday Night Football" or "NFL Sunday Ticket." I get it -- we like football in HD. Adding all the NFL football points together brought the total to 55.

There were also a fair number of mentions for college football, but these were dwarfed by respondents citing NFL broadcasts.

The other big non-series vote-getter was "The World Series" (35), and I'm guessing that most weren't referring to the 2001 Series. :)

I also thought it might be worthwhile to boil down the Picture Quality replies by channel or network, and when I did this CBS was far and away the biggest source of your favorite picture quality programming, totaling 161 points, followed by FOX (86), ABC (69), NBC (68), Discovery (49), HDNet (36) and ESPN (27). Note that the ESPN numbers includes both ESPN and ESPN2, while the HDNet total did not include any mentions for HDNet Movies, although there were, in fact, a handful of points given to HDNM.

Viewer Favorites - Sound Quality

The range of replies here was similar to for Picture Quality, though the number of overall responses was slightly lower.

Among regularly scheduled programs, "Lost" (30) again took the honors for sound quality -- FWIW, I can still hear that scene where Sawyer was chasing the tree frog from speaker to speaker in my room. Very cool. "CSI: Miami" (23) and "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" (18) took the silver and bronze honors. Others receiving a significant number of mentions/points were "24" (16), "HDNet Concert Series" (15) and "NUMB3RS" (10).

The Best Sound results mirrored the Picture Quality for non-series programs, with variations on "NFL Football" dwarfing all other programming of this type. Other presentations that were singled out for sound quality included "MLB Baseball," "NCAA Final Four," "Grammy Awards," and "Cream Reunion Concert."

Looking at stations or networks that were mentioned most often in relation to Sound Quality was the same at the top, but it varied significantly from there. CBS again led the way with 106 points, followed by FOX (59), ABC (33), HDNet (33), and HBO (29).

Viewer Wish Lists

The variety of approaches to answering this question was similar to that for Picture and Sound Quality, but the groupings were effectively flip-flopped, with few mentions of regularly scheduled programs. Instead, the replies focused on channels you aren't receiving (or in existence) that you'd like to have (think Sci-Fi Channel), or more of some particular type of programming (including -- believe it or not -- more "NFL Football").

Among the channels you're not receiving that you'd like to be getting KDNL/ABC was the slam-dunk leader with 63 points. Obviously these votes were cast primarily by Charter subscribers, and I suspect that if the vote were held today, KDNL might actually be eclipsed by KMOV/CBS. The next most-cited channel was ESPN2 (24), again presumably a result of sports-deprived Charter subscribers. Tied with ESPN2 was a channel that doesn't even exist currently, the Sci-Fi Channel (24).

Others getting multiple mentions here included FOX Sports Midwest (16), National Geographic (14), and Food Network (11).

The other type of response given for the wishlist question was "more of this" or "more of that," with more "Cardinals Baseball" (52) slightly edging a handful of different ways of saying "more NFL Football" (47). Other significant mentions were collected by "Local News" (21), "Golf" (17), "Blues Hockey" (10), "Wimbledon Tennis" (10), "Formula One Racing" (9), and "Mizzou Sports" (7).

Among the relatively scant requests for specific programs, "reality" programming ruled the day, with "Survivor" totaling 23 points, "Amazing Race" (7) and "The Apprentice" (4). The top non-reality show making an impression here was HBO's "The Wire," with 6 points.

Closing Note: That concludes the reporting on the "2006 HDTV in St. Louis" survey. For me, this was an interesting exercise, and I hope that it helps bring some clarity to various aspects of the unfolding transition to digital and HDTV in the market here.

I'm not sure at this point whether I'll do this survey again next year. As someone who's naturally curious about these sorts of things, I'm inclined to do it, but I think I'll wait and see how much practical use there actually is for these results over the next 6 months or so.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to participate in the survey -- I really do appreciate your time and patience.

Previous Summaries

Part 1: Survey Respondents Profile (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9075182&&#post9075182)

Part 2: Receiving Local Digital Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9091629&&#post9091629)

Part 3: Digital Multicasting Opinions (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9127512&&#post9127512)

Part 4: Rating Your HD Pay TV Provider (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9157953&&#post9157953)

Part 5: Rating HD Pay TV Channels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9315435&&#post9315435)

DISCLAIMER: AVS is in no way a party to this survey, apart from being a vehicle to promote the survey's availability and as an avenue to report back results. None of the questions or results should in any way be taken to represent the views or opinions of the management of AVS or its various partners.

With Charter, they have the MOXI Mate. The MOXI is on the main TV and the mate (a smaller box) goes onto another TV. You are limited to the DVR functions on only those 2 tvs. That is if you can get one. I have one, but have heard there is a LONG waiting list to get one.

Tim

Hey everyone. New to the thread here. Thanks for all the info...btw.

I've done some reading, but I'm having a hard time determining the exact best solution for me:

Currently with Dish network:
1. HDTV using Dish 811 (non-dvr)
2. HTPC connected to HDTV to record HD-OTA
3. Dish 625 (dual tuner DVR) connected directly to den TV via S-video and
4. 2nd tuner on Dish 625 connected via coax to 2 upstairs TVs
no internet
no phone

My goals are to upgrade to an HD-DVR, and add phone and internet service

My options as I see them are to stick with Dish, upgrade to the HD-DVR, and add AT&T phone and internet service:
*$13/mo for AT&T limited local calling plan
*$20/mo for AT&T broadband

I don't really care about having a limited phone plan. It's really only for emergencies, and I suppose for allowing my sat box to dial out if need be.

My other option is Charter.
I'd do the $100 triple play whatsit and obviously add the moxi

My question is, we use the DVR a lot in one of our upstairs bedrooms. What is Charter's solution for sharing DVR'ed content accross multiple TV's? The best case scenario would probably be to have one moxi box attached to my HDTV and one SD DVR for the rest of the house's TVs, like my situation is now.

My other question is, does anybody know exactly what it would require for me to upgrade to the Dish 622? I know I need to upgrade to mpeg4 service (right?).

Company bashing aside, does anybody have any particular recommendations one way or another?

Thanks for any input
With Charter, they have the MOXI Mate. The MOXI is on the main TV and the mate (a smaller box) goes onto another TV. You are limited to the DVR functions on only those 2 tvs. That is if you can get one. I have one, but have heard there is a LONG waiting list to get one.

TimThanks for the reply, I've heard of the moxi mate, but I would hate to be restricted by hard drive size if one DVR controlled all my other TVs. I could easily fill the 12-20 hours of HD recording a MOXI could provide, leaving no room for the sitcoms and etc.

Hey a little help guys...

Tomorrow E* is getting installed. I am trying to gain as much knowledge as possible before the guy come out, but even with the internet, this stuff is confusing for newbie to sat.

What are the most essential facts I should know and what are the best questions to ask the installer?

Also...I keep reading about 129 and 61.5? What's the deal with that? I am assuming that those are degrees for reception? I read on DBS talk where one person said the installer didn't even know about 61.5. Originally a guy came out, tried to line up 129, couldn't because of trees. Subscriber found out about 61.5 online and called back. Got junk over the phone saying it wouldn't work, he got someone to come out and do an install and of course it worked. I tried to get Dish two years ago and they guy said he couldn't get a line of sight (I also suspect he didn't want to deal with my roof), is it possible that I was denied service becase the guy didn't know about the other band or whatever?

any help you guys have is appreciated...

...Tied with ESPN2 was a channel that doesn't even exist currently, the Sci-Fi Channel (24)...I'll bet Battlestar Gallactica alone carried that vote. But I'm a huge Stargate fan, and it's nice to see that Atlantis is now on UHD.

...The other type of response given for the wishlist question was "more of this" or "more of that," with more ... "Formula One Racing" (9) ...OK, who are the closet F1 fans here. I swear, I really did not do the survey 9 times. :p

I wonder if the USGP (United States Grand Prix for you F1 dummies) will be in HD this year, since Fox is doing it? I'll be there, but would love to coma back and see it in HD on my TIVO.

Sorry, but I don't get all the huffing and puffing about "Charter bashing."

Is this some sort of weird commercial variant on political correctness, or just an inborn stubborness to ignore the boldface writing on the wall?

I don't understand why ANYONE considering a change in the status quo would even have Charter on the list of possibilities, at least if video services are anything like even a modest priority. Charter doesn't have the content (and there's nothing remotely indicating that will change), and they don't have the hardware on hand to deal with the orders they are getting.

OK, maybe the hardware waiting list isn't a deal-breaker, if you have the luxury of waiting until they're in a position to take care of you. But what happens if/when your receiver needs repair or replacement? Who going to turn to then? Ghostbusters?

Sorry if this is harsh, but anyone considering Charter at this point, either hasn't taken the time to read ANY of this discussion or is a hopeless Pollyanna.

I'm assuming you guys didn't get the Corvair and Ford Pinto memos either. :eek:

Sorry, but I don't get all the huffing and puffing about "Charter bashing."

...

Sorry if this is harsh, but anyone considering Charter at this point, either hasn't taken the time to read ANY of this discussion or is a hopeless Pollyanna.

I'm assuming you guys didn't get the Corvair and Ford Pinto memos either. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Thems is fightin words thar Doug. I can already see the flesh turnin' bright red. ;)

Sorry, but I don't get all the huffing and puffing about "Charter bashing."

Is this some sort of weird commercial variant on political correctness, or just an inborn stubborness to ignore the boldface writing on the wall?

I don't understand why ANYONE considering a change in the status quo would even have Charter on the list of possibilities, at least if video services are anything like even a modest priority. Charter doesn't have the content (and there's nothing remotely indicating that will change), and they don't have the hardware on hand to deal with the orders they are getting.

OK, maybe the hardware waiting list isn't a deal-breaker, if you have the luxury of waiting until they're in a position to take care of you. But what happens if/when your receiver needs repair or replacement? Who going to turn to then? Ghostbusters?

Sorry if this is harsh, but anyone considering Charter at this point, either hasn't taken the time to read ANY of this discussion or is a hopeless Pollyanna.
lol I halfway expected a response like this.

I think though, that I am in a somewhat unique situation: two of my three goals for considering a provider switch involve "other" services (phone and internet). Also, having a HTPC that acts as a DVR for HD-OTA broadcasts frees me from the crap that Charter is going through with KDNL and CBS. Also, in all honestly, the fact that Charter is the ONLY way to get Fox Sports Midwest in HD is weighing heavily on my mind.

Having said all that, I feel almost like a traitor if I would give Charter my money, supporting their HD Neglect.

lol I halfway expected a response like this.

I think though, that I am in a somewhat unique situation: two of my three goals for considering a provider switch involve "other" services (phone and internet). Also, having a HTPC that acts as a DVR for HD-OTA broadcasts frees me from the crap that Charter is going through with KDNL and CBS. Also, in all honestly, the fact that Charter is the ONLY way to get Fox Sports Midwest in HD is weighing heavily on my mind.

Having said all that, I feel almost like a traitor if I would give Charter my money, supporting their HD Neglect.

You mean 5 games a year they show HD on Fsn? :cool:

Directv has fsnmw-hd

Hey a little help guys...

Tomorrow E* is getting installed. I am trying to gain as much knowledge as possible before the guy come out, but even with the internet, this stuff is confusing for newbie to sat.

What are the most essential facts I should know and what are the best questions to ask the installer?

Also...I keep reading about 129 and 61.5? What's the deal with that? I am assuming that those are degrees for reception? I read on DBS talk where one person said the installer didn't even know about 61.5. Originally a guy came out, tried to line up 129, couldn't because of trees. Subscriber found out about 61.5 online and called back. Got junk over the phone saying it wouldn't work, he got someone to come out and do an install and of course it worked. I tried to get Dish two years ago and they guy said he couldn't get a line of sight (I also suspect he didn't want to deal with my roof), is it possible that I was denied service becase the guy didn't know about the other band or whatever?

any help you guys have is appreciated...

Ken will help you out more with this, as he has helped me greatly. The numbers you are referring to are different satellites or "birds" you will need to hit to get the channels you want to see. If you are getting HD with locals you will need to hit 110, 118, 119, and 129 I believe. There could be options, but I don't think many. Ken will clear this up for you when he stops in.

Sorry, but I don't get all the huffing and puffing about "Charter bashing."

Is this some sort of weird commercial variant on political correctness, or just an inborn stubborness to ignore the boldface writing on the wall?

I don't understand why ANYONE considering a change in the status quo would even have Charter on the list of possibilities, at least if video services are anything like even a modest priority. Charter doesn't have the content (and there's nothing remotely indicating that will change), and they don't have the hardware on hand to deal with the orders they are getting.

OK, maybe the hardware waiting list isn't a deal-breaker, if you have the luxury of waiting until they're in a position to take care of you. But what happens if/when your receiver needs repair or replacement? Who going to turn to then? Ghostbusters?

Sorry if this is harsh, but anyone considering Charter at this point, either hasn't taken the time to read ANY of this discussion or is a hopeless Pollyanna.

I'm assuming you guys didn't get the Corvair and Ford Pinto memos either. :eek:


This seems a bit out of character for you?

Back a few (dozen?) pages, I told my story of when my Moxi died. They had a tech out the next day with a brand new (not previously used) newer Moxi for me, and it was up and running. I didn't have to call Ghostbusters.

I know ppl hate Charter, its fine. I don't love them, nor do I care if ppl bash them. Reading all the problems have with the D* HD-DVR guides, things not recording right, reboots .... but geez, nobody bashes that.

Anyhow it didn't seem like you to really care all that much who likes / dislikes Charter
:)

You mean 5 games a year they show HD on Fsn? :cool:

Directv has fsnmw-hd
18 in 2006 actually :)
and i think its reasonable to expect more

... Reading all the problems have with the D* HD-DVR guides, things not recording right, reboots .... but geez, nobody bashes that. I'll bash D*. I've been a happy customer for 8 years, but lately they have really screwed up with their software and guide problems. I didn't ask for the new software, but I did get screwed by the forced upgrade. I really wish I had unplugged my phone line when I had the chance. D* needs to get their act back together soon and fix these screwups. If they don't, I'm going to want something else (but not Charter in any case).

Hey a little help guys...

Tomorrow E* is getting installed. I am trying to gain as much knowledge as possible before the guy come out, but even with the internet, this stuff is confusing for newbie to sat.

What are the most essential facts I should know and what are the best questions to ask the installer?

Also...I keep reading about 129 and 61.5? What's the deal with that? I am assuming that those are degrees for reception? I read on DBS talk where one person said the installer didn't even know about 61.5. Originally a guy came out, tried to line up 129, couldn't because of trees. Subscriber found out about 61.5 online and called back. Got junk over the phone saying it wouldn't work, he got someone to come out and do an install and of course it worked. I tried to get Dish two years ago and they guy said he couldn't get a line of sight (I also suspect he didn't want to deal with my roof), is it possible that I was denied service becase the guy didn't know about the other band or whatever?

any help you guys have is appreciated...
In the STL DMA, there are 4-5 satellites used for Dish. There are know as orbital locations, and identified by their location in space.
With normal reception line-of-sites, 4 satellites accounts for 95% of applications, these orbital locations are:
110°west; 118.75°west; 119°west; and 129°west.
In STL, these 4 locations are received with a Dish1000+ antenna using 3 LNB's. One of the LNB's is a dual-band DBS/FSS, so it can receive both 119° and 118.75°west.

In the 5% of line-of-site applications which cannot see 129°, DISH has the identical programming on the 5th satellite, 61.5°west. When it becomes necessary to replace 129° with 61.5°, it also becomes necessary to use a second dish antenna. It is not possible for a dish to be pointed more than 30°. In this application, 110/118/119 would be received on one dish antenna, and 61.5 on a second dish antenna.

DISH only began using 129 sometime last year, so it is unlikely that had any effect on the issue you experienced. If, from the top of your roof, you have a good view of the WSW sky, you should have a line-of-site.

The main DISH programming are on 110 & 119. 61.5/129 contain the national HD channels. 118.75 contains the STL digital locals.

OK, who are the closet F1 fans here. I swear, I really did not do the survey 9 times.
You and me and 7 others?

Wait.....you can watch race cars going around a track on TV now?

Why? :D

I wonder if the USGP (United States Grand Prix for you F1 dummies) will be in HD this year, since Fox is doing it? I'll be there, but would love to coma back and see it in HD on my TIVO.

Ken he told you why. To put him in a COMA! jk Dean, but I couldn't resist.

Jeff,
What receiver(s) and programming package are you getting from DISH?
I can give you a good idea of what should be installed, and what to look/ask for. :)

Jeff,
What receiver(s) and programming package are you getting from DISH?
I can give you a good idea of what should be installed, and what to look/ask for. :)

622, HD Bronze with HBO and Showtime...being hooked up to just one tv. Thanks.

Ken he told you why. To put him in a COMA! jk Dean, but I couldn't resist.I'm sorry. I think you have me confused with a NASCAR fan. :p

Sorry if this is harsh, but anyone considering Charter at this point, either hasn't taken the time to read ANY of this discussion or is a hopeless Pollyanna.



Well Doug I guess I fall under a hopeless Pollyanna. Quite frankly I have found little issues with Charter. When I wanted another DVR they where out the next day to install it. When I had problems with my internet somebody would answer on the second ring, any they were local if you call Louisville local, and we fix the problem. Now that being said I only use Charter as a back up to DirecTV but I found their DVR to be more reliable than the Tivo which right is driving me crazy with the non recording and the constant rebooting.

May I suggest, and I expect a lot here will vehemently disagree with me, that you give it a rest on Charter, and KSDK for that matter. Do what you do the best and keep calibrating our wonderful HDTV's that give us these fascinating pictures.

Charter and KSDK are who what they are and hopefully provide us with better programing and pictures down the road.

Thanks
Tom

Well Doug I guess I fall under a hopeless Pollyanna. Quite frankly I have found little issues with Charter. When I wanted another DVR they where out the next day to install it. When I had problems with my internet somebody would answer on the second ring, any they were local if you call Louisville local, and we fix the problem. Now that being said I only use Charter as a back up to DirecTV but I found their DVR to be more reliable than the Tivo which right is driving me crazy with the non recording and the constant rebooting.

May I suggest, and I expect a lot here will vehemently disagree with me, that you give it a rest on Charter, and KSDK for that matter. Do what you do the best and keep calibrating our wonderful HDTV's that give us these fascinating pictures.

Charter and KSDK are who what they are and hopefully provide us with better programing and pictures down the road.

Thanks
Tom

KSDK aside, why have blind faith that Charter is going to improve?

Both Dish and Direct have shown that they care about HD. Either one is a better option for HD than Charter. Charter is expensive and offers less. Like I pointed out in an above post. I'll be saving almost $500 this year switching and I'll have more HD channels. If I had brain damage and decided to keep Charter, $500 is alot of good faith money that somewhere down the road they maybe maybe fingers crossed, might improve...slightly...their HD content.

Oy, things are getting emotional around here...But the Belo thing and the free Dish 622 on Feb 1st pushed me over. Well, as long as one more thing goes good: My downstairs neighbor had Dish/SBC before he moved out and left the dish. The dish looks like an older, smaller model with 2 lnb's on the tip. I'm not versed in Dish dishes (heh heh) but I'm assuming this isn't the most recent MPEG4 unit? Does the newer dish use the same mount? I dont want my landlord to be concerned with two (or more) dishes on the side of the house. Is it possible to get a Dish rep or installer out before feb 1 to do a site survey to make sure I can hit all the birds? Or should I just set up the appointment and if I can't hit all the sat's, cancel the whole deal? I'm pretty sure I can hit West and SW, but anything "too" south may be a problem without getting up on the roof...

BTW, CSI:Miami in SD is no good...there's no going back.

-Matt

Florida/Ohio State game on Fox looked awesome last night. I was not agreeing with you all about the Eagles/Giants game looking good on Fox, but last nights game looked stellar. I did have the usual audio drop outs on 2.1 OTA, so I changed to 88 with no issues at all. Directv rules!

Scott

KSDK aside, why have blind faith that Charter is going to improve?

Both Dish and Direct have shown that they care about HD. Either one is a better option for HD than Charter. Charter is expensive and offers less. Like I pointed out in an above post. I'll be saving almost $500 this year switching and I'll have more HD channels. If I had brain damage and decided to keep Charter, $500 is alot of good faith money that somewhere down the road they maybe maybe fingers crossed, might improve...slightly...their HD content.


Yeah, Charter lost me when I got the CBS letter and I realized I'm paying $60+ monthly for the rare FSN HD, TNT (widescreen quasi HD) ESPN, MHD, Discovery HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies...that's only seven HD channels. Everything else is something I can get for free OTA. I can spend $50 per month and get my (no multipath issues) locals + 20 or so others. Mostly ESPN2, FoodNetwork, and Nat'l Geographic HD. That sounds like a pretty good deal all things considered...

-Matt

i am still having some issues on my local HD through dish where my picture is pixelating. Apparently its on Dish's side and are supposively working on it. anyone else having this issue?

Florida/Ohio State game on Fox looked awesome last night. I was not agreeing with you all about the Eagles/Giants game looking good on Fox, but last nights game looked stellar. I did have the usual audio drop outs on 2.1 OTA, so I changed to 88 with no issues at all. Directv rules!

Scott

Well one thing is for sure about last night...The HD looked better than Ohio! :p

622, HD Bronze with HBO and Showtime...being hooked up to just one tv. Thanks.
Hardware:
Dish 1000+ antenna
VIP622 receiver

As I wrote in the earlier post, there are two possible dish antenna configurations.

The preferred is the Dish 1000+ antenna, which will receive 4 satellite orbital locations, 110/118/119/129.

The second is a dual-dish antenna solution. This would be a Dish 500+ to receive 110/118/119, and a second dish antenna to receive 61.5 in place of 129.

Either way, you must be able to receive 110/118/119 and 129 or 61.5.
So either 110/118/119/129 or 110/118/119/61.5.
Unlikely, but if the installer tells you anything different, he's wrong.

There are two line-of-site issues. One is, like you were told 2 years ago, there is no line-of-site...end of installation.
The second is, in some applications/locations, a single dish cannot "see" the 19° range between 110 and 129. Since 110/118/119 can be seen on a single dish (only a 9° difference), the installer will add a second single LNB dish aimed at either 129 or 61.5. It makes no difference which he/she uses, they're mirrors, so whichever has the best reception is the one he/she will choose.

Installation:
Standard installation includes getting the SAT signal from the Dish to the receiver.
It also includes running a coax cable for the TV2 capability of the 622. Even if you're not planning on using it now, if you have a second SD TV, you can have the installer connect it, and either disconnect it after he/she leaves, or leave the 622 in single-mode...same thing.
Note: There will be only one cable running to the back of the 622, even though it is a dual-tuner. The system uses a splitter directly between the single cable and the 2 SAT input ports on the 622.

If you do not have a second TV, or are not interested in having it connected, it IS part of the installation the installer is being paid for, so you can usually "trade" that, for some other thing you may need done, which is not part of standard installation. As example, "fishing" cable through walls is not part of standard installation. If you need a cable "fished," you can tell the installer you know connecting TV2 is part of the installation, and you don't need that done, so will he/she "fish" the cable instead, etc.

If you have an issues during the install tomorrow, send me a PM.

My question is, we use the DVR a lot in one of our upstairs bedrooms. What is Charter's solution for sharing DVR'ed content accross multiple TV's? The best case scenario would probably be to have one moxi box attached to my HDTV and one SD DVR for the rest of the house's TVs, like my situation is now. ...

The Charter Moxi 9022 does come with a Moxi Mate for a second TV but it does not stream HD; the Mate delivers downrezzed SD. If you plan to feed a second HDTV, the Mate might not be for you.

barry

My brother in law stopped by Charter today to inquire about a HD box. He had been told that he was on the waiting list for over a month but the office said they had no record of him on the list.

He was able to convince them to finally give him a HD box but wasn't to thrilled to find out about the CBS/Superbowl issue.

Just another positive effect of Belo . .more HD boxes may be available ;)


On another note, count me in on the DTV bashing. The have really screwd up things with our HD Tivos . . . if it wasn't for Sunday tickect I would jump on the deal for a 622.

Good luck,
Token

i am still having some issues on my local HD through dish where my picture is pixelating. Apparently its on Dish's side and are supposively working on it. anyone else having this issue?
jmeitz,
Yes, everyone is, but I am not sure it is on Dish's end. That, and some audio sync issues, though they are both now sporadic, and very intermittent.

While it's happening, I can immediately swap to OTA, and it is there also. The A/B's I've done are all on the 622. I'm going to do some on my 211's. If it shows up on the SAT and OTA locals on 2 different machines, I'd be inclined to think it is either something to do directly with the locals, or more likely, the coding being sent out, and how the Dish software decodes it. I use my Dish receivers as the OTA tuners.

My brother in law stopped by Charter today to inquire about a HD box. He had been told that he was on the waiting list for over a month but the office said they had no record of him on the list.

He was able to convince them to finally give him a HD box but wasn't to thrilled to find out about the CBS/Superbowl issue.

Just another positive effect of Belo . .more HD boxes may be available ;)


On another note, count me in on the DTV bashing. The have really screwd up things with our HD Tivos . . . if it wasn't for Sunday tickect I would jump on the deal for a 622.

Good luck,
Token

I am starting to become quite pleased with my HR20. I have 2 other HD-Tivos, but
the HR20 is dominating my TV use and I am able to navigate through the menu's quite easily.

I suggest taking a look at these now.

In weighing whether to jump ship from Charter I've discovered that both Dish and DTV offer regional sports packages that contain NESN. If I could get Bosox games it would be grrreat! But I'm wondering just how many I'd get.
Anybody know how heavy the blackouts are for out of market games?
thx
barry

You would have to subscribe to the MLB package and then the only time you would be blacked
out is if the Cardinals were playing the BOSOX or it was on a National carrier.

Checked and this is actually on Tuesday night. Is anyone else excited for the 4 hour premiere on Sunday/Monday?

You're right, I wasn't able to get back on AVS to correct it.

Oy, things are getting emotional around here...But the Belo thing and the free Dish 622 on Feb 1st pushed me over. Well, as long as one more thing goes good: My downstairs neighbor had Dish/SBC before he moved out and left the dish. The dish looks like an older, smaller model with 2 lnb's on the tip. I'm not versed in Dish dishes (heh heh) but I'm assuming this isn't the most recent MPEG4 unit? Does the newer dish use the same mount? I dont want my landlord to be concerned with two (or more) dishes on the side of the house. Is it possible to get a Dish rep or installer out before feb 1 to do a site survey to make sure I can hit all the birds? Or should I just set up the appointment and if I can't hit all the sat's, cancel the whole deal? I'm pretty sure I can hit West and SW, but anything "too" south may be a problem without getting up on the roof...
-Matt
Matt,
The dish your old neighbor left is out-dated, and you can have the installer removed it, or replace it with your new one.
The do not use the same mount. The mount for the newer/larger dish is larger, reshaped, and reinforced for the added size/weight.

If it's any help, the main line-of-site is around 230°-250°.
It is unlikely you will be able to get anyone from Dish to come out ahead of time to determine line-of-site, unless you go through a local retailer, who agrees to do so. DISH has no means of creating a work order for a "site survey."

You are also aware your landlord cannot impose any restriction(s) on you with relation to erecting/installing your dish antennas? Given, it may create social issues, but there are no legal issues.

jmeitz,
Yes, everyone is, but I am not sure it is on Dish's end. That, and some audio sync issues, though they are both now sporadic, and very intermittent.

While it's happening, I can immediately swap to OTA, and it is there also. The A/B's I've done are all on the 622. I'm going to do some on my 211's. If it shows up on the SAT and OTA locals on 2 different machines, I'd be inclined to think it is either something to do directly with the locals, or more likely, the coding being sent out, and how the Dish software decodes it. I use my Dish receivers as the OTA tuners.

I'm getting breakup on the Dish 622 and Channel 11, serious enough not to be able to watch it. The MyHD card in my computer is still receiving the signal just fine, so barring some inadvertent damage I may have done to the antenna cable going to the 622 (unlikely), I think it's a problem with Dish. Let us know how your other tests go. (I still don't have a cable from my OTA antenna going to my 211. It hasn't been an issue, because I have two MyHD cards in two computers for recording OTA.)

In weighing whether to jump ship from Charter I've discovered that both Dish and DTV offer regional sports packages that contain NESN. If I could get Bosox games it would be grrreat! But I'm wondering just how many I'd get.
Anybody know how heavy the blackouts are for out of market games?
thx
barry
Dish only spots NESN into the local Boston DMA. I don't know about Direct, but with the RSN rules, I'd presume it's the same. The only baseball RSN you can get in STL is FSNMW.

MLB EI offers a selection of games daily. Not every game is aired on MLB EI, every day. You will get plenty of Red Sox games, but not all of them, as you do on NESN.

The 2007 MLB EI schedule is not out yet. It's around 50-60 games per week.

Hardware:
Dish 1000+ antenna
VIP622 receiver

As I wrote in the earlier post, there are two possible dish antenna configurations.

The preferred is the Dish 1000+ antenna, which will receive 4 satellite orbital locations, 110/118/119/129.

The second is a dual-dish antenna solution. This would be a Dish 500+ to receive 110/118/119, and a second dish antenna to receive 61.5 in place of 129.

Either way, you must be able to receive 110/118/119 and 129 or 61.5.
So either 110/118/119/129 or 110/118/119/61.5.
Unlikely, but if the installer tells you anything different, he's wrong.

There are two line-of-site issues. One is, like you were told 2 years ago, there is no line-of-site...end of installation.
The second is, in some applications/locations, a single dish cannot "see" the 19° range between 110 and 129. Since 110/118/119 can be seen on a single dish (only a 9° difference), the installer will add a second single LNB dish aimed at either 129 or 61.5. It makes no difference which he/she uses, they're mirrors, so whichever has the best reception is the one he/she will choose.

Installation:
Standard installation includes getting the SAT signal from the Dish to the receiver.
It also includes running a coax cable for the TV2 capability of the 622. Even if you're not planning on using it now, if you have a second SD TV, you can have the installer connect it, and either disconnect it after he/she leaves, or leave the 622 in single-mode...same thing.
Note: There will be only one cable running to the back of the 622, even though it is a dual-tuner. The system uses a splitter directly between the single cable and the 2 SAT input ports on the 622.

If you do not have a second TV, or are not interested in having it connected, it IS part of the installation the installer is being paid for, so you can usually "trade" that, for some other thing you may need done, which is not part of standard installation. As example, "fishing" cable through walls is not part of standard installation. If you need a cable "fished," you can tell the installer you know connecting TV2 is part of the installation, and you don't need that done, so will he/she "fish" the cable instead, etc.

If you have an issues during the install tomorrow, send me a PM.

Three questions:

1) What's is "fishing" exactly?

2) Can the second "tv" be my DVD-recorder...Moxi wasn't very good or convieant for hooking a dvd recorder and I ended up using red/white/yellow plugs (S-video and component wouldn't work with HDMI/DVI cable, and S-Video wouldn't work when I outputed the Moxi with component instead of HDMI/DVI)

3) What exactly is "line of sight"...I see many of neighbors have sats from either E* or D*, so I was always confused to why exactly I had line of sight problems. In other words, when are trees and other obstrutctions become too much? I know that sems like a dumb question.

When I drive around town I look at other people's dishes and nothing on their property or their neighbor's property seems more "clear" than mine. My roof is very steep (the second floor looks like an a-frame...it's technically a "1 and 1/2 story house)and I believe that the installer didn't want to deal with going to the top, so he was looking at where the gutters are at and didn't want to deal with looking at other spots, like where the upstairs bathroom is (this part sticks out of the normal roof and is on the western side of the house) , the brick chimney (which isn't really functional per se...it allows some fumes and stuff to exist from the furnance, but it's real purpose has for old old oldschool stove in basement...this is a 100 year old house) or just plain at the top where the "A" comes together. It seems like there are lots of options. I also think he was stuck in his mind that he wanted to work on the eastern part of thehouse because that is where outside Charter box is. Maybe he was just looking to do a quickie install based on the old Charter cables? I wish I had been more knowledgable back then. Our appointment was actually for the same day we had the moving van so I had too much other stuff on my mind. he basically just said "Can't do it" and I took his word for it. Naive in retrospect.

Thanks for all the help.

Obviously you won't be able to answer the question specifically because you don't know my property, I'm just looking for generalzation....

For those of you concerned about getting the Super Bowl in HD and the possibility that D* or E* might not get you hooked up in time, there is a solution if you have a computer with a free PCI slot. It's the MyHD card:

MyHD OTA Tuner/Recorder (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/mdp130.asp)

Drop this card into your computer's PCI slot, install the software, hook up a UHF antenna and you can watch and record OTA programs (such as the Super Bowl on CBS). You can hook it up to your HDTV via component or DVI. Be sure to give yourself a few days to figure things out and troubleshoot issues that may come up. That said, it's one of the easiest PCI installs I've ever done.

Obviously, this is not for everyone, but it may be the only Super Bowl solution for some people, such as those who can't get a dish signal. It also has the advantage of providing you with a free OTA HD DVR. It's not as full featured a solution as the E* 622 DVR, but it works, and once hooked up it even "feels" like a piece of consumer electronics gear, rather than computer hardware/software.

There are some other computer cards that do the same thing, but the MyHD is the one I'm most familiar with. I've worked with three other types and the MyHD has been the most user friendly.

I can get phone, internet, and TV through Charter at a good price. Seems like a value to me. I suppose I could jump to Dish because they offer more HD channels, but then when DirectTV comes out with more do I jump to them?? what happens when Charter catches up, do I jump back to them? Seems like a hassle to be switching all the time to me. Just my opinion

Yeah well I can, and will be getting all three through at&t which looks to be a better price. Not to mention I have heard nothing but bad things about Charter's phone service....

ANYWAYS...it's not about going to who has "more" channels"...it's about who has the channels I want. I've had Charter HD for a year and a half and I kept waiting for them to finally get abc-hd. no dice. Same thing for espn-2HD. Hasn't happened. Then they couldn't get NFL Network. Now they can't keep CBS.

On top of it, they are raising my rates.

You may get you locals OTA, but my HDtv doesn't have a built-in tuner and Charter's Moxi box doesn't have an input for and antenna. So I am 100% at the mercy of Charter HD.

May I suggest, and I expect a lot here will vehemently disagree with me, that you give it a rest on Charter, and KSDK for that matter. Do what you do the best and keep calibrating our wonderful HDTV's that give us these fascinating pictures.
Tom

I don't have to be "vehement" about it, but Doug does far more than calibrate sets. He has strong opinions and yes, I agree with most of what he writes. But the latter part of your post IMO is very patronizing and sardonic. It's pretty clear how much Doug contributes and the assistance he provides.

I don't really know when they will resolve the issue, but to think that Charter will never come to an agreement with CBS and ABC is probably naive. I imagine it will be more important to them if they either lose customers over it, or fail to sign up new ones. While Charter might be a year behind on HD compared to others I still wouldn't like the idea of jumping around between providers always looking for who has the most channels at the moment.

Would you consider Charter is temporarily unable to get an aggreement with Sinclair?

I don't really know when they will resolve the issue, but to think that Charter will never come to an agreement with CBS and ABC is probably naive. I imagine it will be more important to them if they either lose customers over it, or fail to sign up new ones. While Charter might be a year behind on HD compared to others I still wouldn't like the idea of jumping around between providers always looking for who has the most channels at the moment.


Don't forget...Charter customers two years in a row are missing out on the superbowl in HD...That's inability to bring the one of the most-watched, highest rated tv broadcast to their customers. This show imcompetence to be able to do the "little things" that keep customers happy and coming back.

In the 3+ years I've had charter for phone, I've had 0 problems with it.

Sorry if this is harsh, but anyone considering Charter at this point, either hasn't taken the time to read ANY of this discussion or is a hopeless Pollyanna.


...or we are in the middle of a two-year contract in which we get all of the movie channels and an HD box for less than $60 per month.

I personally love OnDemand and it is one of the reasons I stick with Charter. I will admit I do not use it very often, but when nothing else is on TV ondemand is great. They continue to add more free/included content even for basic channels and although you could say a DVR does the same thing a DVR assumes you scheduled it to record.
-Phatty

I don't use OnDemand too often, but the wife loves it. I agree with your HD statement, as that would lead me to peruse it regularly. It has been nice during this Winter lull in programming to be able to browse all the movies on the movie networks (assuming you have the movie packages).

Three questions:

1) What's is "fishing" exactly?

2) Can the second "tv" be my DVD-recorder...Moxi wasn't very good or convieant for hooking a dvd recorder and I ended up using red/white/yellow plugs (S-video and component wouldn't work with HDMI/DVI cable, and S-Video wouldn't work when I outputed the Moxi with component instead of HDMI/DVI)

3) What exactly is "line of sight"...I see many of neighbors have sats from either E* or D*, so I was always confused to why exactly I had line of sight problems. In other words, when are trees and other obstructions become too much? I know that seems like a dumb question.

When I drive around town I look at other people's dishes and nothing on their property or their neighbor's property seems more "clear" than mine. My roof is very steep (the second floor looks like an a-frame...it's technically a "1 and 1/2 story house)and I believe that the installer didn't want to deal with going to the top, so he was looking at where the gutters are at and didn't want to deal with looking at other spots, like where the upstairs bathroom is (this part sticks out of the normal roof and is on the western side of the house) , the brick chimney (which isn't really functional per se...it allows some fumes and stuff to exist from the furnance, but it's real purpose has for old old oldschool stove in basement...this is a 100 year old house) or just plain at the top where the "A" comes together. It seems like there are lots of options. I also think he was stuck in his mind that he wanted to work on the eastern part of thehouse because that is where outside Charter box is. Maybe he was just looking to do a quickie install based on the old Charter cables? I wish I had been more knowledgable back then. Our appointment was actually for the same day we had the moving van so I had too much other stuff on my mind. he basically just said "Can't do it" and I took his word for it. Naive in retrospect.

Thanks for all the help.

1) Obviously you won't be able to answer the question specifically because you don't know my property, I'm just looking for generalzation....
I only used "fishing" as an example. It's nothing more that bringing a wire into a wall at the top/bottom/side, and then pulling it out at the opposite of its entry. A standard install includes drilling a perpendicular hole from the outside, in, and passing the cable through the drilled hole. Standard installation does not include running cable(s) through the horizontal/vertical length of your walls.

2) No, TV2 must have a viewable display. You could incorporate your DVD recorded into the TV2 (SD) feed, but you would also have to have a display to know what is being done.

3) Line-of-site is just the reflector on the dish being able to see the satellites. KIM, the dish is aimed upwards towards the sky, at a similar angle you would need to tilt your head up 3-4 inches. The dish is not aimed straight across towards the hemisphere, it's pointed up.
So, when you drive around, and see, what you would think would be obstructions, in fact, the dish is aimed over them.

If your roof was 50' high, and you had a 100' high oak tree right next to your house, and in the path the dish needed to be aimed, the dish could not see over the tree. But, if you moved that tree 50' away from your house, then the dish can see over it. Looking at it from the ground, the dish would appear to be obstructed.

Also, the dish does not have to be mounted on the rooftop. More times than not, they are mounted on an eve, or the side of a house, below the roof.

If you'd like/need more info, go ahead an send me a PM, so we don't clutter the thread with a bunch of techonical stuff not related to HD...thanks. :)

I think HDTV is in its infancy, and until more Charter customers demand it, it won't be a priority. I imagine will be be based and driven on HDTV sales.

HDtv's are in 30% of houses now and it's not like hd receivers and moxi dvr's are collecting dust in Charter's backroom. THe demand is there...

I'm assuming you guys didn't get the Corvair and Ford Pinto memos either. :eek:

Just cuz you got burned when you bought that Edsel, its no reason to bash the Pinto. I had a 72 that I beat every weekend auto crossing or rallying. I put 130K miles on it with zero problems. I replaced the tires and brakes once. I gave the car away and the new owner was still driving it when I moved to Michigan in the 80's. I always drove it fast enough to avoid being hit from the rear thus avoiding being burned. :p

Noting the free 622, I also read that either Sinclair or Below was offering to subsidize a switch to Sat service. I think I read this in a link that Doug posted quite a few pages back.

I'm a Charter customer and have never missed a Superbowl since 2002. I used to have the HD recordings to prove it. Note Joe's solution.

Walt

A positive feature charter has that satellite doesn't provide (afaik) is firewire out via the cable box. Firewire connected to a mediacenter PC for HD recording is more value to me than more HD channels I wouldn't watch (lolFoodChannel). I like having unlimited space and options for my recorded media.

Mediacenter doesn't care if CBS or ABC is coming via charter or OTA, it schedules it and records all the same. And since I don't care about football or shows for the 60-100 yr old demographic (CSI+++++) I don't miss CBS at all.

I'm not saying charter is perfect, I would love to have UniversalHD for BSG as an example, but its certainly not so bad as to beat the crap out of every post with the drama stick.

I can get phone, internet, and TV through Charter at a good price. Seems like a value to me. I suppose I could jump to Dish because they offer more HD channels, but then when DirectTV comes out with more do I jump to them?? what happens when Charter catches up, do I jump back to them? Seems like a hassle to be switching all the time to me. Just my opinion

This is why I have had DirecTV for 10 years and SBC DSL for 7.

I can get phone, internet, and TV through Charter at a good price. Seems like a value to me. I suppose I could jump to Dish because they offer more HD channels, but then when DirectTV comes out with more do I jump to them?? what happens when Charter catches up, do I jump back to them? Seems like a hassle to be switching all the time to me. Just my opinion

Opinions make the world go round. That's what makes this forum tick. Some people keep their communication/entertainment rates very low by switching back and forth all the time.

Personally, I don't see charter catching up to Dish in any area anytime soon...or at all for that matter. Then again, I'm partial.

Pixelation on Dish receivers? This is the first I've heard. If you have an AT&T Dish account, shoot me a PM and I'll escalate it for you. I'll check my setup when I get home tonight to see if I'm having the issue as well.

When did it start? Is it on every local channel? Is it from a particuliar sat location?

There's more to the argument than just channel lineup comparisons and price comparisons.

Honestly, if all you had to do was make a phone call and, voila, five minutes later you are now receiving D* or E*, I don't think there would be anyone left with Charter (kind of like long distance in the old days - totally seamless to the consumer, you just started getting a bill from a different provider).

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The fact that you have to put a 31" dish somewhere on your house, I think is the major barrier for Joe Sixpack. I know that's what stopped me from getting Dish - the only line of sight was on the front roof, directly over the front door, fully viewable from the street, etc. When I would tell my non-HD enthusiast friends I was getting Dish, that's the first question "Where are you going to hide the Dish"?

Charter is terrible, there's no question. But there are a lot of factors other than cost and channel lineups that go into the switching equation.

Opinions make the world go round. That's what makes this forum tick. Some people keep their communication/entertainment rates very low by switching back and forth all the time.

Personally, I don't see charter catching up to Dish in any area anytime soon...or at all for that matter. Then again, I'm partial.

Pixelation on Dish receivers? This is the first I've heard. If you have an AT&T Dish account, shoot me a PM and I'll escalate it for you. I'll check my setup when I get home tonight to see if I'm having the issue as well.

When did it start? Is it on every local channel? Is it from a particulier sat location?
It's only from the 4 on 118. I'd guess you've seen it, but it is very brief, and very intermittent. It was much worse when they first launched in April. I find it, in order, to be mostly on FOX/KTVI, NBC/KSKD, ABC/KDNL, CBS/KMOV.
For me, it is so brief and infrequent now, I don't even notice it, unless I'm looking for it....or, I've become used to it.
I still do not believe it is confined to a DISH issue...IMO.

Just cuz you got burned when you bought that Edsel, its no reason to bash the Pinto. I had a 72 that I beat every weekend auto crossing or rallying. I put 130K miles on it with zero problems. I replaced the tires and brakes once. I gave the car away and the new owner was still driving it when I moved to Michigan in the 80's. I always drove it fast enough to avoid being hit from the rear thus avoiding being burned. :p

Noting the free 622, I also read that either Sinclair or Below was offering to subsidize a switch to Sat service. I think I read this in a link that Doug posted quite a few pages back.

I'm a Charter customer and have never missed a Superbowl since 2002. I used to have the HD recordings to prove it. Note Joe's solution.

Walt

Like I said, I don't have a digital tuner so receiving locals are out unless I buy a receiver OR buy stuff for the computer. Either way, If I am going to invest $200 or so into buying that stuff, why would I waste my time keeping Charter? It doesn't change the fact that I am overpaying for inadequete service.

There ways of course to get the Superbowl in HD. I know that.

But when Charter sends you a letter that says they are raising rates so they can "remain compeitive and continuing offering their service at a great price"... as an HD fan and watcher, how's that make you feel? And then like two weeks after this letter, they lose an HD station that is showing the NFL playoffs, the SUperbowl and two other favorite shows on TV? It doesn't sit well...

Dish only spots NESN into the local Boston DMA. I don't know about Direct, but with the RSN rules, I'd presume it's the same. The only baseball RSN you can get in STL is FSNMW.

MLB EI offers a selection of games daily. Not every game is aired on MLB EI, every day. You will get plenty of Red Sox games, but not all of them, as you do on NESN.

The 2007 MLB EI schedule is not out yet. It's around 50-60 games per week.

On DirecTV all RSN's are available via the Sports Pack. These are the SD versions
of the RSN. The HD RSN's are spot beams, so NESN HD is only available in its DMA.

Special event HD games are broadcast on channel 95 but last year most of the
special event baseball games were HD Yankee games via YES, or the occassional
Cardinal game that was blacked out locally because it was the visiting teams broadcast.

There's more to the argument than just channel lineup comparisons and price comparisons.

Honestly, if all you had to do was make a phone call and, voila, five minutes later you are now receiving D* or E*, I don't think there would be anyone left with Charter (kind of like long distance in the old days - totally seamless to the consumer, you just started getting a bill from a different provider).

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The fact that you have to put a 31" dish somewhere on your house, I think is the major barrier for Joe Sixpack. I know that's what stopped me from getting Dish - the only line of sight was on the front roof, directly over the front door, fully viewable from the street, etc. When I would tell my non-HD enthusiast friends I was getting Dish, that's the first question "Where are you going to hide the Dish"?

Charter is terrible, there's no question. But there are a lot of factors other than cost and channel lineups that go into the switching equation.

yup, all of what you said is true...not to mention the upfront costs scare people way....even though though those costs wind up saving you more $$ down the road...

On DirecTV all RSN's are available via the Sports Pack. These are the SD versions
of the RSN. The HD RSN's are spot beams, so NESN HD is only available in its DMA.

Special event HD games are broadcast on channel 95 but last year most of the
special event baseball games were HD Yankee games via YES, or the occassional
Cardinal game that was blacked out locally because it was the visiting teams broadcast.
Thanks Bill :)


Hum...23.5%....Ouch!

Opinions make the world go round. That's what makes this forum tick. Some people keep their communication/entertainment rates very low by switching back and forth all the time.

Personally, I don't see charter catching up to Dish in any area anytime soon...or at all for that matter. Then again, I'm partial.

Pixelation on Dish receivers? This is the first I've heard. If you have an AT&T Dish account, shoot me a PM and I'll escalate it for you. I'll check my setup when I get home tonight to see if I'm having the issue as well.

When did it start? Is it on every local channel? Is it from a particuliar sat location?

I'm getting breakup on OTA channel 11 on the 622, but not my MyHD cards. Signal level reads in the 90's. This started a few weeks ago. Others have reported the same thing a while back in this thread. I'm not an AT&T sub, though. Other OTA stations seem pretty much OK, except I still get too many dropouts on Fox. Not as bad as it used to be, and I think this is a local Fox issue, not Dish.

I'm getting breakup on OTA channel 11 on the 622, but not my MyHD cards. Signal level reads in the 90's. This started a few weeks ago. Others have reported the same thing a while back in this thread. I'm not an AT&T sub, though. Other OTA stations seem pretty much OK, except I still get too many dropouts on Fox. Not as bad as it used to be, and I think this is a local Fox issue, not Dish.
Joe,
You never get any breakup or pixelling when watching the SAT digitals?

I didn't mention OTA 11, because I figured it was a given...it's not even watchable.

I don't have to be "vehement" about it, but Doug does far more than calibrate sets. He has strong opinions and yes, I agree with most of what he writes. But the latter part of your post IMO is very patronizing and sardonic. It's pretty clear how much Doug contributes and the assistance he provides.

Doug contributes quite a lot to our forum and he has calibrated a number of my TV's. In fact he will be doing another one next month. But what I want to hear here is what new in the HDTV world and how we can improve on what we have now. I don't really care to know the stock price of Charter and I don't really think it belongs here. Other's may not agree but thats my feelings.

Joe,
You never get any breakup or pixelling when watching the SAT digitals?

I didn't mention OTA 11, because I figured it was a given...it's not even watchable.

Hard to say, Ken. I don't actually watch the sat locals that much. I do think both OTA and sat broadcasts are a lot more likely to exhibit image anomalies than they used to. The MyHD, on the other hand, still pulls ch. 11 in pretty much as it always has. I'm recording programs and getting consistently good results on the MyHD. Maybe ch. 11 has changed something that certain tuners are having more problems with. That was the case with ch. 30 in the past. Certain tuners were having stuttering video with KDNL broadcasts, but not with other local OTA stations.

On DirecTV all RSN's are available via the Sports Pack. These are the SD versions
of the RSN. The HD RSN's are spot beams, so NESN HD is only available in its DMA.

Special event HD games are broadcast on channel 95 but last year most of the
special event baseball games were HD Yankee games via YES, or the occassional
Cardinal game that was blacked out locally because it was the visiting teams broadcast.

Bill, are you saying that for example Red Sox games on NESN wld be available via DirecTV in St. Louis in SD? I could live with that...
barry

Bill, are you saying that for example Red Sox games on NESN wld be available via DirecTV in St. Louis in SD? I could live with that...
barry

If you subscribe to the MLB package, yes.

Hard to say, Ken. I don't actually watch the sat locals that much. I do think both OTA and sat broadcasts are a lot more likely to exhibit image anomalies than they used to. The MyHD, on the other hand, still pulls ch. 11 in pretty much as it always has. I'm recording programs and getting consistently good results on the MyHD. Maybe ch. 11 has changed something that certain tuners are having more problems with. That was the case with ch. 30 in the past. Certain tuners were having stuttering video with KDNL broadcasts, but not with other local OTA stations.
Joe,
I recall the 30 issue. I'm going to start watching the 211 more. IIRC, don't you use a modded 211 for recording?

The 211 I have upstairs is in the kitchen, and is usually playing the same as the living room 622 when cooking/watching-watching/cooking type of thing. When I first situated them both (at certain angles, I can see/hear both), I had problems getting the audio the same on both receivers, when watching the locals, either OTA or SAT. That was resolved by software updates to the 622.

I know well, how the 622 behaves with the locals. I'm interested to see if it is the same on the 211. Stay tuned......

Hum...23.5%....Ouch!lol

"steroids is.....is.....bad."

Wow, I love reading everyone's opinions about all this stuff.

It is very easy for me to project what is right for me (D*) on everyone else. Bottom line is, Charter IS the correct service for some. Directv IS the correct service for some. Dish IS the correct service for some. Some prefer to read and don't even own a TV. We are quite a diverse group individuals here.

I have been with D* since they rolled off the truck and a single room system was sold for $699 without installation. People back then thought I was nuts to pay $700 just to have the ability to watch SD TV let alone HD. For me, it was a pleasure to finally say goodbye to Farmington Cablevision at that time. I have not looked back since and being a NFL fan I really have no other option other than Directv. So, I will continue to gladly pay my $125 per month or whatever it is to feed my habit.

Scott

Why is it that any negative word about Charter -- even when it comes direct from the keyboards of its own customers -- is bashing? This is the main point I don't get in the direction this discussion has been heading over the past 6 months. Maybe it's "homerism," because Charter is ostensibly a local company, and presumably there are a lot of Charter employees out there, whether they're active here or not.

And while I appreciate that there are many instances where Charter gets things right -- whether it's uninterrupted, flawless service for some of you or reports of quick action on addressing your problems when they occur -- the facts are that's not even close to being the norm when you look at the aggregate customer experience.

In the event that anyone has forgotten it, or perhaps never saw it, here's how more than 100 local viewers rated their OWN Pay TV provider in the key areas of the customer experience in the recent St. Louis HDTV survey, hosted and summarized here at AVS.

Pay particular attention to those customer service and technical service rankings for Charter -- those are spectacularly poor ratings. Note also that the survey was taken just before the NFL Network impact and well before the loss of KMOV-DT. That means it's more than somewhat unlikely that any of these numbers have improved since then.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/VideoSavant/17-RatingYourHDPayTVProvider.jpg

Allow me to concede upfront that MY survey wasn't perfect. But until someone else comes up with something more systematic and with a larger response base, it is the best objective data available. And according to that data, Charter is doing a HORRIBLE job supporting HD customers. This isn't MY opinion, it is the MARKET opinion.

So it completely befuddles me when certain posters here get defensive about Charter and claim unfair treatment. The problem isn't me -- it's Charter's.

While I'm on the topic of the survey again, let me throw the doors there wide open so there's as much transparency on this as there can be. Here's a link where you can review the results directly, as complied by the website (SurveyMonkey) used to collect them:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/Report.asp?U=274896895553

Finally, I don't believe that I have pulled any punches on DirecTV. If I were of a mind to do that, I wouldn't have reported the things that I have here about picture quality or the TiVo problems that I have experienced (slow menu response, stuttering audio, etc.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- DirecTV is far from perfect, but on balance they have treated me very well -- and more importantly have repeatedly demonstrated to me that they appreciate my business. Just in the past 6 months, they've given me a free DVR, they made me a "A List" customer (which expedites how my support calls get handled) and they have been more than fair with me when I've had a legitimate complaint.

A great example of this is when DirecTV removed channels on Sunday afternoons for 6 hours in order to make space for NFL Sunday Ticket games -- when I complained, I was given the HD package free for 12 months. Yeah, that wasn't their first offer, but they came through in the end.

With all that said, I am now seriously considering jumping ship from DirecTV. There are several reasons for this, chief among them the fact that I am going to have to make changes to my installation as a result of the MPEG-4 transition. But just as important to me is the fact that DirecTV is changing ownership yet again, and I'm certain the recent "musical chairs" ownership is going to catch up with the overall quality of the service.

Also, I've never been a fan of John Malone, former head honcho of TCI who will soon have control of DirecTV through Liberty Media. I believe that Malone, based on his history, is much more interested in doing deals than making good products and keeping customers happy. So, I think DirecTV has probably crested as a customer-oriented business.

Only a few years ago, I thought of DISH as the ugly stepchild of the Pay TV industry, but through direct experience with it via my own customers and through interactions here at this Forum, I can see they are doing many things right and very few wrong.

In my opinion, DISH deserves a much bigger slice of the Pay TV market, and I think it is on the way to realizing that potential.

So, yes I do have strong opinions, but I also try to maintain some perspective and balance. No doubt I'm not totally objective but I try to be fair. But I'm not going to paper over poor products and poor service when they're staring me in the face.

Bill, are you saying that for example Red Sox games on NESN wld be available via DirecTV in St. Louis in SD? I could live with that...
barryYes, and over time you will probably see a growing percentage of the MLB Extra Innings package be provided in HD.

For example, after the All-Star game last year, between channel 95 (MPEG-2) and channel 96 (MPEG-4 only) DirecTV provided two or three HD games as part of the EI package on most days.

Because NESN represents one of the bigger markets and because all of its telecasts are originated in HD, the chances are pretty good that you'd get several HD Sox games each month. No guarantees, of course, but odds are in your favor.

BTW, not sure this was stipulated by anyone else earlier, there's really no point in subscribing to the package that provides all of the regional sports nets -- just get EI if it's out-of-market baseball that you're interested in.

Doug contributes quite a lot to our forum and he has calibrated a number of my TV's. In fact he will be doing another one next month. But what I want to hear here is what new in the HDTV world and how we can improve on what we have now. I don't really care to know the stock price of Charter and I don't really think it belongs here. Other's may not agree but thats my feelings.Tom,

I just wanted to be clear that I didn't have any problem with your remarks about sticking to what I know (calibration). I'm pretty sure you weren't the only one thinking it... :D

You make an interesting point about the Charter stock price, but the only reason I did that a few years back is that Charter was then flirting with a sub-$1 price, which had it been maintained for a certain consecutive number of days (30, I think) would have called for the delisting of the company stock. Had it come to that, this would have had a devastating effect on Charter's ability to fund its ongoing operations. Therefore that seemed to me to be a legitimate thing to pay attention to here -- if there was no Charter, there would be fewer HD options.

But Charter weathered that storm, and I stopped reporting the price -- not because it increased, but because the price level no longer had any relevance here.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing you in February.

Yep, the RSN sports package is pretty useless unless you like some High School sports or
the local sports show. You do get to see the pregame/postgame stuff.

One thing I noticed when I had the RSN's is that DirecTV would black out the replay of out of
market baseball games. Apparently their contract didn't include repeats.

BTW, not sure this was stipulated by anyone else earlier, there's really no point in subscribing to the package that provides all of the regional sports nets -- just get EI if it's out-of-market baseball that you're interested in.

You anticipated my next question, Doug, thx!

barry

Appeasement? NFL Network Looking to Accommodate Cable

FWIW, I took Charter's (and the cable industry) "side" in this disagreement. I don't think the NFL Network is going far enough on this, but the fact that they are backing off should be a positive sign.

The following story is from The Capital (Madison, WI) Times web site, via Multichannel News:
________________________________________________________

In the wake of high-profile squabbles that left it off some major cable systems, including Charter Communications, the NFL Network will consider strategies that include some forms of distribution on digital-cable tiers, Multichannel.com reported.

"We need to find a business model that works for all parties involved," Adam Shaw, senior vice president of distribution at NFL Network, said Monday at the International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

Two options Shaw said the network will consider are 100 percent basic distribution during the football season and digital carriage off-season, and 100 percent basic distribution in markets that have NFL teams, with digital carriage in other markets.

Charter and some other cable companies declined to carry NFL Network, with its high per-subscriber cost, anywhere but digital tiers that go only to the subscribers that pay for them.
________________________________________________________

To read the complete story, click here. (http://www.madison.com/tct/business/index.php?ntid=114195&ntpid=3)

I am starting to become quite pleased with my HR20. I have 2 other HD-Tivos, but
the HR20 is dominating my TV use and I am able to navigate through the menu's quite easily.

I suggest taking a look at these now.

I agree. I have an HR20 for my primary viewing and and an HD-Tivo in another room. The HR20 lost a couple of recordings last week (known bug), which would have angered me a lot more if I didn't have the HD-Tivo for backup.

Last night I downloaded the new 0x115 firmware release which reportedly fixes this and several other known issues. It does appear that the menus are faster with this release, and they were already much faster than the Tivo.


Mike

lol

"steroids is.....is.....bad."


I'm also laughing that Canseco got less than 5% of the possible votes. As I understand it that takes him off the list and the only way he could get in is with the old-timers board in 30 years.

I also laugh at the jerk writers who don't vote for shoe-in's like Ripken and Nolan Ryan just because they want to be diffcult and/or different.

lol

"steroids is.....is.....bad."
http://blahblahblah.info/2006/11/29/big-mac-to-the-hall-of-fame/

Wait.....you can watch race cars going around a track on TV now?

Why? :D
Because there is a lack of telecasting of the other two sports (http://www.timelesshemingway.com/thearoom/generalsec5.shtml#threesports) : mountain climbing and bull fighting.

Because there is a lack of telecasting of the other two sports (http://www.timelesshemingway.com/thearoom/generalsec5.shtml#threesports) : mountain climbing and bull fighting.Great catch. I forgot all about that quote (or is it fact?). I even had that on my blog at one point.

[Warning: techie-talk to follow. Disinterested parties please skip.]

A friend who is an experienced A-V installer asked my help in tracking down an elusive hum problem. This installation is like an octopus: it is spread across three stories of a century-old mansion, uses a multi-feed DTV dish with a switch to feed several TV receivers, UHF/HDTV antenna, TIVOs, stereo control centers, etc.

We have tracked the problem down to the DTV hardware. Breaking the power line ground by inserting a "cheater plug" reduces the hum quite a bit. Removing all the coax cables from the hardware EXCEPT for a single DTV receiver stops the hum entirely. Each coax run that is re-attached (from a switch port to another receiver) adds hum back in.

All this makes me suspect multiple ground loops, and finally to my question: Is there any sort of isolation transformer that can be inserted in the coax runs to break the ground, but still pass RF? Or is a continuous ground required on all the runs to get DC power for the LNBs and switch? Any other solutions to break the ground loops?

Thanks!

I forgot all about that quote (or is fact?)
The quote is accurate, but cannot (alas!) be attributed to Hemingway. It was said by a character who seems to be modeled after Hemingway in a Ken Purdy story.

I just came home from work and there were 4-5 pages of posts over the last day! Don't you guys work or do you do this from work? Must be nice. :-)

From Broadcast Engineering

Belo pulls HD channels from Charter cable in five markets
Jan 9, 2007

At midnight Jan. 4, media group Belo pulled its HD signal from Charter Communications cable in five markets around the country in a dispute over whether the cable operator must compensate the broadcaster for carrying its HD channel in each market.

"There's a disagreement about the value of local high-definition programming and how its value should be shared," said Carey Hendrickson, Belo vice president of investor relations and corporate communications.

The affected stations, KMOV-TV in St. Louis, WFAA-TV in Dallas/Fort Worth, WWL-TV in New Orleans, WCNC-TV in Charlotte, NC, and WVEC-TV in Hampton/Norfolk, VA, are continuing to provide their SD signal to Charter for cable distribution, Hendrickson said.

"Those stations invested millions of dollars for local HD, and Charter charges its customers for HDTV service, but they don't share it with us. They are willing to share with national networks, but not us. That's the issue," Hendrickson said.

Belo and Charter are negotiating on the matter, but Hendrickson declined to comment on how productive those negotiations are, as well as about whether Belo would take similar action with cable operators in other markets where the broadcaster owns stations that transmit in HD.

While the action is noteworthy from an industry point of view, it affects relatively few customers. Hendrickson estimated that pulling the local HD channels affects about 40,000 Charter subscribers in St. Louis, 12,000 in Dallas/Fort Worth, 8000 in New Orleans, 5000 in Charlotte and fewer than 2000 in Hampton/Norfolk.

And now for something completely different...

Since WRBU (46.1) is now broadcasting college basketball, I would like to pick up that channel OTA. Currently I'm not able to get their signal because of the location of their tower in relation to the others from my location (Woodson Terrace just south Lambert Field). I'm currently using a E* installed Winegard VHF/UHF/FM antenna pointed SSE. I would not mind replacing it with a DB4 or something simular, but my TV requires analog Channel 9 to pick up the TV guild info. Any thoughts on what I should do? Can I combine 2 antennas on the same mast?

And now for something completely different...

Since WRBU (46.1) is now broadcasting college basketball, I would like to pick up that channel OTA. Currently I'm not able to get their signal because of the location of their tower in relation to the others from my location (Woodson Terrace just south Lambert Field). I'm currently using a E* installed Winegard VHF/UHF/FM antenna pointed SSE. I would not mind replacing it with a DB4 or something simular, but my TV requires analog Channel 9 to pick up the TV guild info. Any thoughts on what I should do? Can I combine 2 antennas on the same mast?
Sure can, and that is probably the easiest and fastest solution. If when pointed at the WRBU tower, you receive it well, just add a small UHF antenna to the mast and combine the two feeds at the base of the mast. Your OTA tuner will only "see" one feed coming in.

Another option would be a rotor, but much more costly and difficult to install.

I just came home from work and there were 4-5 pages of posts over the last day! Don't you guys work or do you do this from work? Must be nice. :-)
I work at home...which is probably why I post way more than I should, and say to many things I shouldn't! :o

I have to agree with "redwine". A lot of pages posted since mine. :eek:

Thanks to Doug. Today I have no problem with the SD OTA so far so it must be weather related. I am going to try the attic suggestion since I got a "comment" from my neighbor asking why I put an antenna on my deck. (I live in a villa community so his house is attached to mine). I assume the copper RG-6 you refer to is a lower loss solution. I'll try that too. :)

Yes to kdg454. That's the antenna. Actually 63368 - Dardenne Prairie. With a "75 mile" range, that antenna should work. As I said before - the problem seems to be weather related. :mad:

So here's another question - will an attic mount (inside) help with weather related problems? :confused:

Once again - thanks for the response. I am glad I found this forum - I have learned a lot. :D

So much for the leader in HD. Surprised nobody else complained about KSDK OTA broadcast in SD with scrolling amber alert banner. They're the only ones doing it.

How hard/expensive could it be to find a way to have banners without affecting resolution.

So much for the leader in HD. Surprised nobody else complained about KSDK OTA broadcast in SD with scrolling amber alert banner. They're the only ones doing it.

How hard/expensive could it be to find a way to have banners without affecting resolution.

annoying sure...but nowhere near as bad as the school closing screen they do. :eek:

And now for something completely different...

Since WRBU (46.1) is now broadcasting college basketball, I would like to pick up that channel OTA. Currently I'm not able to get their signal because of the location of their tower in relation to the others from my location (Woodson Terrace just south Lambert Field). I'm currently using a E* installed Winegard VHF/UHF/FM antenna pointed SSE. I would not mind replacing it with a DB4 or something simular, but my TV requires analog Channel 9 to pick up the TV guild info. Any thoughts on what I should do? Can I combine 2 antennas on the same mast?

I'm not too far from you, in Vinita Park. I switched from the Radio Shack UHF yagi to the DB4 for a wider pattern to receive WRBU and it worked.

I'm pointed just slightly East of due South. I just checked NTSC 9 and I have a noise free signal even on a UHF antenna.

You might want to try a DB4 alone before adding a VHF antenna to it.

So much for the leader in HD. Surprised nobody else complained about KSDK OTA broadcast in SD with scrolling amber alert banner. They're the only ones doing it.

How hard/expensive could it be to find a way to have banners without affecting resolution.


If the amber alert is so important, why don't they have it for commercials?

Came upstairs after getting done exercising and turned on the HD Tivo to see the Larry King Live interview with the cast of 24...... only to see "Welcome. Powering up........."

Glad I also set this to record on the many-years-old ReplayTV in the other room.

If this happens during 24 itself next week, DirecTV's gonna NEED Jack Bauer to save it from ME!!!!!!!!!

If this happens during 24 itself next week, DirecTV's gonna NEED Jack Bauer to save it from ME!!!!!!!!!


That's funny, I don't care who you are (Larry the Cable Guy) :D

After twenty minutes of "Welcome, powering up," I said "F*ck this," pulled the plug, and gave it a hard reboot. Now I finally have it working again. (rolls eyes)

HR20 is calling your name Bob.

HR20 is calling your name Bob.

Or a free Dish 622. FREE... Free..... free...........

I'm not too far from you, in Vinita Park. I switched from the Radio Shack UHF yagi to the DB4 for a wider pattern to receive WRBU and it worked.

I'm pointed just slightly East of due South. I just checked NTSC 9 and I have a noise free signal even on a UHF antenna.

You might want to try a DB4 alone before adding a VHF antenna to it.

Are you having any problems with multipath? I get channel 2.1 at around 100% but will get the occasional channel blip. I'm hoping this might also help with KSDK 5.1 during the summer months, with the leaves on the trees I loose signal everytime the wind blows. Thanks for letting me about getting KETC 9 VHF signal with your DB4.

HR20 is calling your name Bob.

Except I can't get my head around the fact that DirecTV wants to send me an HR20 that I would be leasing and I'd have to send them my HR10 that I own .

And by the way, the HR10 has MY 300gig drive in it because I replaced the original 250gig drive when it died in mid-2005.

And I'm supposed to send it in to *D so they can replace it with an HR20 that I'll be leasing ?????

Not 'til *D comes up with some national MPEG-4 HD channels that the HR10 won't be able to receive. And maybe not then, either.

OTOH, I noticed of all my season passes, the only thing showing to record this week was CSI New York. All the others on the To Do list (including 24, see my post above) are showing "won't record" because "Someone in my household canceled or changed the season pass." I'm the only one in this household and I know d*mn good and well I didn't change it.

The HR10 is doing a "clear program info and to do list" as we speak. *Sigh*.... I never had to put up with this with my old ReplayTV's....................

Or a free Dish 622. FREE... Free..... free...........
Joe.....Joe......joe clark (http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/sharp-108-inch-lcd)

DISH Network Announces Free 622 DVR Offer for New Customers

The following story excerpt is from HDTV Magazine:
__________________________________________________________

EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH) and its DISH Network™ satellite TV service announced today that it will offer new DISH Network customers the highly-acclaimed, high definition ViP622 DVR™ receiver for free as part of the Digital Home Advantage Program. The ViP622 DVR is the first HD DVR in the satellite industry to be offered with no upfront cost to new subscribers, giving viewers a unique opportunity to experience the exciting world of HD and commercial-free TV.
__________________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/dish_network_of.php)


This deal may simply replace DISH Network's current promotion. If you sign up now, you pay $200 to upgrade to the 622, but get a $200 rebate on your HD programming, spread out over 10 months. My guess is that after after Feb. 1, the receiver will be free but the programming rebate won't be offered. Basically the same deal, at the end of the year you've spent the same amount of money.

For those of you concerned about getting the Super Bowl in HD and the possibility that D* or E* might not get you hooked up in time, there is a solution if you have a computer with a free PCI slot. It's the MyHD card:

MyHD OTA Tuner/Recorder (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/mdp130.asp)

Drop this card into your computer's PCI slot, install the software, hook up a UHF antenna and you can watch and record OTA programs (such as the Super Bowl on CBS). You can hook it up to your HDTV via component or DVI. Be sure to give yourself a few days to figure things out and troubleshoot issues that may come up. That said, it's one of the easiest PCI installs I've ever done.

Obviously, this is not for everyone, but it may be the only Super Bowl solution for some people, such as those who can't get a dish signal. It also has the advantage of providing you with a free OTA HD DVR. It's not as full featured a solution as the E* 622 DVR, but it works, and once hooked up it even "feels" like a piece of consumer electronics gear, rather than computer hardware/software.

There are some other computer cards that do the same thing, but the MyHD is the one I'm most familiar with. I've worked with three other types and the MyHD has been the most user friendly.



Got the card for 111.50 at buy.com.....

Got the card for 111.50 at buy.com.....

Great deal. Did you just get it or have you been using it for a while?

Joe.....Joe......joe clark (http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/sharp-108-inch-lcd)

Yes, I already arranged to buy the demo unit Sharp showed. They're flying it to me on the back of a 747. Just a little something for the basement, where I keep the vault with all my jewels.

Yes, I already arranged to buy the demo unit Sharp showed. They're flying it to me on the back of a 747. Just a little something for the basement, where I keep the vault with all my jewels.
We both know that thing will fit on top of a 707.....show off :D

Except I can't get my head around the fact that DirecTV wants to send me an HR20 that I would be leasing and I'd have to send them my HR10 that I own .

And by the way, the HR10 has MY 300gig drive in it because I replaced the original 250gig drive when it died in mid-2005.

And I'm supposed to send it in to *D so they can replace it with an HR20 that I'll be leasing ?????

Not 'til *D comes up with some national MPEG-4 HD channels that the HR10 won't be able to receive. And maybe not then, either.

OTOH, I noticed of all my season passes, the only thing showing to record this week was CSI New York. All the others on the To Do list (including 24, see my post above) are showing "won't record" because "Someone in my household canceled or changed the season pass." I'm the only one in this household and I know d*mn good and well I didn't change it.

The HR10 is doing a "clear program info and to do list" as we speak. *Sigh*.... I never had to put up with this with my old ReplayTV's....................

I had exactly the same scenario with my Dish 921, which I owned. I gave it to Dish (plus $200) in exchange for the Dish 622, which I now lease. Considering the benefits of the 622, I came out ahead.

Don't be afraid, Bob. You can make the switch to Dish now and get the 622 for FREE... Free..... free.......... It's a beautiful world with light and fluffy clouds, and angelic women stroke your brow as you sip a Margarita and count the money you just saved on the free 622. You will weep for the poor souls who have to live in heaven.

We both know that thing will fit on top of a 707.....show off :D

I didn't know that! Well, I'll just fly my 707 out there and pick it up myself.

You dont have to give up your HR10 for the 20, just call retention and tell them you want to add another HD DVR. They were going to give me one for free and allow me to keep my HR10-250 before i decided to switch to dish and sell my HR10 on ebay for 375.

Analyst Cites Competitive HD Hurdles for Cable

The following excerpt is from today's SkyREPORT newsletter:
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"Some subscribers may be upset at losing the multiple feeds [cable is expected to discard in order to clear space for HD], but with HDTV now in roughly 35 million homes, the high-def audience is becoming a beast that must be fed," said HDTV guru Phil Swann. "Some cable operators are now only offering around 10-15 HD channels and that just won't cut it later in the year when DIRECTV expands."

DIRECTV President and CEO Chase Carey told attendees at CES that the company has signed carriage deals and pending offers with about 60 national HDTV channels including the likes of CNN, USA and the Sci-Fi Channel. Failure to carry these popular channels "will tempt many cable high-def subscribers to switch to satellite," Swann said.
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To read the full story, go to www.skyreport.com

Jobs Takes Another Stab at Video Market with Apple TV

I have a long track record for underestimating Apple, but the Apple TV product strikes me as an amazingly-off-the-mark creation.

This article, in today's TV Predictons newsletter, mirrors my thoughts on this pretty much. However, I do think "the Internet" will become an increasingly important way of delivering certain types of Pay TV services (think PPV, "on demand" and boutique channels such as international programming), but that will have to come via functionality seamlessly built in to the set-top box you're already using, not some standalone equipment with an Apple, Microsoft, Intel, or Cisco logo on it.
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In 2005, Apple CEO Steve Jobs gushed that the 2.5-inch screen video iPod would revolutionize the TV industry.

Today, according to Nielsen Media Research, only two percent of all media used on the video device are actually videos. Consumers have decided that the device's small screen isn't suitable to watch TV, whether it's primetime episodes or user videos.

However, Jobs has not satisfied his thirst to conquer the television world. The tech guru today unveiled Apple's new iTV,

Jobs said the device will be renamed Apple TV. However, it will be another 'Steve Jobs Folly' regardless of the name.

At MacWorld, Jobs said the set-top, which will retail for $299 and ship next month, will allow users to transmit PC-based media to the TV. The device will support high-def video up to 720p resolution.

It will also include a wireless connection and a 40-gigabyte hard drive.

"It's a really cool box," Jobs said at the unveiling. "It works with video, music and photos. It was designed for a widescreen TV."

However, although it may be "cool" -- to use Jobs' 'forever young' parlance -- the Apple TV box is not designed for the American consumer.

Americans are tired of buying set-tops for TV-based purposes. They already have a DVD player; a cable and/or satellite set-top; possibly a standalone TiVo DVR and/or DVD recorder; a video game console; and in some cases, a Audio/Video receiver connected to their TVs.

And now Jobs is telling them to get another box so they can stream videos, music and photos from their PCs?

Fat chance -- even if the set-top will send the signals wirelessly; Americans have set-top fatigue.

Apple TV is just another version of a Media Center PC, which has still not captured a sizable audience.

Some analysts say viewers will want to watch Net video -- particularly user videos -- on their televisions. Internet TV has a promising future, but it won't succeed until it's available on set-tops that are already in the home, such as a cable or satellite box. It's highly unlikely that people will buy a special set-top to watch a two-minute video of someone hitting himself on the head on their HDTVs.

Americans will need a strong reason to buy yet another TV set-top. This is one of the obstacles facing the high-def DVD industry. HD-DVD and Blu-ray supporters have yet to convince people that the high-def recorder will make their lives more convenient and entertaining. (In fact, with the format war and high player prices, the high-def DVD player now is anything but convenient, although it does add entertainment.)

In recent years, several companies such as Disney have tried to break the set-top logjam with products such as MovieBeam, the Video on Demand service. But they have failed for the reasons stated above.

Despite the media's adoration of Mr. Jobs, Apple TV will fail as well.
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CNN, Sci-Fi, TBS, FX, Speed, Cartoon Among Nets Going HD

The following article from the TV Predictions newsletter, provides additional details on new HD networks expected later this year.
_________________________________________________________

CNN said yesterday that it will launch its new High-Definition TV network in September.

That's according to an article in Multichannel News.

The publication reports that several cable networks were caught off-guard by DIRECTV's announcement on Monday that it had signed carriage agreements with 60 new high-def channels. The satcaster named CNN, TBS, the Sci-Fi Channel, FX, USA Network, Speed and the Cartoon Network among others.

The problem, however, is that those channels had yet to announce they were launching HDTV editions of their standard definition networks. DIRECTV said it would add the high-def networks in the second half of the year.

In addition to the CNN launch announcement, Turner Networks yesterday said the Cartoon Network and TBS would launch their high-def channels in September as well, according to Multichannel News.

NBC Universal, which owns the USA Network and the Sci-Fi Channel, would not offer any launch dates.

Fox did not reveal a launch date for FX or Speed HD, but said DIRECTV's increased high-def capacity means "we can ramp up aggressively."
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Are you having any problems with multipath? I get channel 2.1 at around 100% but will get the occasional channel blip. I'm hoping this might also help with KSDK 5.1 during the summer months, with the leaves on the trees I loose signal everytime the wind blows. Thanks for letting me about getting KETC 9 VHF signal with your DB4.

Interesting. I'm located in Creve Coeur and I get a solid 100 in signal strength on Fox 2 HD. However, I continue to get occasional, brief picture breakups or macro blocks when they broadcast in HD. It happenned maybe 20 times during the two House episodes last night. I wonder if it's local or the network.

Interesting. I'm located in Creve Coeur and I get a solid 100 in signal strength on Fox 2 HD. However, I continue to get occasional, brief picture breakups or macro blocks when they broadcast in HD. It happenned maybe 20 times during the two House episodes last night. I wonder if it's local or the network.


I can tell you I saw slight issues randomly throughout the episode of House on Charter as well so it is probably network feed related.

-Phatty

Probably not very helpful, but -- I don't normally watch House, but I did catch about 20 minutes of it last night and I didn't see any break-ups. Not sure if I was tuned to KTVI or the FOX digital out of New York.

FWIW, I watched from about the point where the little girl was inside the MRI machine up until the time that House shuts the door of his apartment on the administrator trying to get his help in diagnosing the problem. Do not recall a single break-up during that period.

I am starting to become quite pleased with my HR20. I have 2 other HD-Tivos, but the HR20 is dominating my TV use and I am able to navigate through the menu's quite easily.
I suggest taking a look at these now.

I took your advice this morning and called about an HR20.
I mentioned "cancel service" during the automated menu and got a pretty helpful rep.
I told him that I was promised a free upgrade with my last HR10 addition.
He put me on hold and told me I could take advantage of their "replacement program" and I would only have to pay shipping ($20).

He had to order 2 HR20's but said I could have the installer not actually "replace" my HR10's and just add a HR20 to the mix.
If the installation works out it will be a pretty decent deal.

Thanks,
Token

Probably not very helpful, but -- I don't normally watch House, but I did catch about 20 minutes of it last night and I didn't see any break-ups. Not sure if I was tuned to KTVI or the FOX digital out of New York.

FWIW, I watched from about the point where the little girl was inside the MRI machine up until the time that House shuts the door of his apartment on the administrator trying to get his help in diagnosing the problem. Do not recall a single break-up during that period.


I believe the episode you are describing is the rerun that aired at 7 before the new episode. The breakups I saw were during the new episode so that could be the difference.

-Phatty

CNN, Sci-Fi, TBS, FX, Speed, Cartoon Among Nets Going HD

The following article from the TV Predictions newsletter, provides additional details on new HD networks expected later this year.
_________________________________________________________

CNN said yesterday that it will launch its new High-Definition TV network in September.

That's according to an article in Multichannel News.

The publication reports that several cable networks were caught off-guard by DIRECTV's announcement on Monday that it had signed carriage agreements with 60 new high-def channels. The satcaster named CNN, TBS, the Sci-Fi Channel, FX, USA Network, Speed and the Cartoon Network among others.

The problem, however, is that those channels had yet to announce they were launching HDTV editions of their standard definition networks. DIRECTV said it would add the high-def networks in the second half of the year.

In addition to the CNN launch announcement, Turner Networks yesterday said the Cartoon Network and TBS would launch their high-def channels in September as well, according to Multichannel News.

NBC Universal, which owns the USA Network and the Sci-Fi Channel, would not offer any launch dates.

Fox did not reveal a launch date for FX or Speed HD, but said DIRECTV's increased high-def capacity means "we can ramp up aggressively."
_________________________________________________________

SciFi in HD? Lots of early adopters are SciFi fans. Expect whoever gets this first to have a huge surge in subscribers.

Since when are there 60 national HD channels, though, even with east and west coast feeds?

SciFi in HD? Lots of early adopters are SciFi fans. Expect whoever gets this first to have a huge surge in subscribers.

Since when are there 60 national HD channels, though, even with east and west coast feeds?

Maybe it's 20 per time zone? :D

Joe,

I agree that the numbers don't seem to add up, but I do think it's likely that the VOOM channels are probably queued up for DirecTV as well.

I mean, if there's all that capacity, there's really no reason not to add them. My understanding is that Cablevision/Rainbow treats VOOM as an all-or-nothing package, so there wouldn't be any prospect of picking off just the most popular ones.

That would put them well on their way to 60...

I took your advice this morning and called about an HR20.
I mentioned "cancel service" during the automated menu and got a pretty helpful rep.
I told him that I was promised a free upgrade with my last HR10 addition.
He put me on hold and told me I could take advantage of their "replacement program" and I would only have to pay shipping ($20).

He had to order 2 HR20's but said I could have the installer not actually "replace" my HR10's and just add a HR20 to the mix.
If the installation works out it will be a pretty decent deal.

Thanks,
Token

You got a great deal. Either they have changed their position or you got the right person on the first try! A month ago they swore nobody was getting it free. I got it for $99 and they offset that with $100 in service credits over 6 months, so it was "virtually" free. I also got an H20 (non-DVR) added for free. I had no problem keeping my HR10-250 since it is owned.

Check your order online to verify you are getting the HR20, not the H20.

Mike

I have DirectTv and an HR10-250 TiVo receiver. I have been noticing a bunch of programs are showing a message on the show info page:

"The copyright holders of this program allow viewing in standard definition on component output."

Or something like that. Well I do not have HDMI on my TV so component is my preferred connection. I was not to broken up when my wife's program Ellen was doing this but now my programs are being effected, The Class and Two and a Half Men. The programs are noticably worse quality then they were before the flag was enabled. I know my television is getting a bit old but I hate to have to buy a new television because of this.

I wonder how long before they stop allowing us to record shows at all or before they set an expiration date.

Cartilage,

I've never seen anything like this on my HR10-250. What is the broadcast flag anyway?

Scott

cartilage,

Interesting (not in a good way)...however, I watched "Two and A Half Men" on Monday night and didn't see any message. I didn't start watching until about 5 minutes in, so I went in through the Now Playing List and didn't see anything like that. I eventually caught up to real time, but still didn't get any messages like you've mentioned. Unfortunately, I erased the show immediately after watching it, so there's no way for me to go back and see if I missed something.

Appreciate any additional detail you can provide...

Except I can't get my head around the fact that DirecTV wants to send me an HR20 that I would be leasing and I'd have to send them my HR10 that I own .

And by the way, the HR10 has MY 300gig drive in it because I replaced the original 250gig drive when it died in mid-2005.

And I'm supposed to send it in to *D so they can replace it with an HR20 that I'll be leasing ?????

Not 'til *D comes up with some national MPEG-4 HD channels that the HR10 won't be able to receive. And maybe not then, either.

OTOH, I noticed of all my season passes, the only thing showing to record this week was CSI New York. All the others on the To Do list (including 24, see my post above) are showing "won't record" because "Someone in my household canceled or changed the season pass." I'm the only one in this household and I know d*mn good and well I didn't change it.

The HR10 is doing a "clear program info and to do list" as we speak. *Sigh*.... I never had to put up with this with my old ReplayTV's....................


As others pointed out, you don't have to give them the HR10-250 cuz you own it. I got to keep mine. They even left it activated until I called to deactivate it. I didn't need it anymore, I thought I would.

Also, I was told by a CSR in December that if you waited until the new year, the deals would be better because they will be in stock.

cartilage,

Interesting (not in a good way)...however, I watched "Two and A Half Men" on Monday night and didn't see any message. I didn't start watching until about 5 minutes in, so I went in through the Now Playing List and didn't see anything like that. I eventually caught up to real time, but still didn't get any messages like you've mentioned. Unfortunately, I erased the show immediately after watching it, so there's no way for me to go back and see if I missed something.

Appreciate any additional detail you can provide...

I remember seeing something about this a while ago. Is this a local HD channel? I think I remember some of the CBS stations ended up with this in the stream.

I took your advice this morning and called about an HR20.
I mentioned "cancel service" during the automated menu and got a pretty helpful rep.
I told him that I was promised a free upgrade with my last HR10 addition.
He put me on hold and told me I could take advantage of their "replacement program" and I would only have to pay shipping ($20).

He had to order 2 HR20's but said I could have the installer not actually "replace" my HR10's and just add a HR20 to the mix.
If the installation works out it will be a pretty decent deal.

Thanks,
TokenI called DirecTV and just said "Cancel Service" to their automated system. I got someone on the line pretty quickly. I have one owned HR10 and one leased. They are charging me $213 to upgrade both of them including the satellite install, but I get an immediate $150 credit on my account, plus a $10 service credit for the next 6 months. That makes my net cost $3. I keep the HR10 I own, and I return the one I lease.

Now I just hope I get a good installer.

Check your order online to verify you are getting the HR20, not the H20.
Mike

Thanks for the heads up ;)

Under Account Activiy, it appears I have a charge of $70 for "DIRECTV Equipment - Charge" and then a credit for the same amount under "DIRECTV Equipment - Cust Sat CR". Net effect is $0 but not the $99 he said it would be. I sure hope the don't try to take one of my HR10's with them on the install :(

When I look at the order details, I see amount paid $237 and it lists a "DIRECTV HD DVR " under the line items. Should make for an intersting install I guess ;)

Thanks,
Token

Did any of you new order HR20 guys have to give your Credit Card number?

Why are you guys getting the HR20's when you already have the HR10-250's? Just curious.

Scott

Local HD Channels via SAT is a big factor for me, I get all via OTA except I have KTVI that likes
to blink out on me.

Also, the PQ is better on SD shows.

One other thing....I REALLY liked the PLUS features for the Sunday Ticket.

Why are you guys getting the HR20's when you already have the HR10-250's? Just curious.

ScottBecause (1) my HR10s haven't worked correctly for months. (2) I'm going to have to upgrade sooner or alter anyway. (3) Might as well do it now when I have legitimate complaints and can get concessions (i.e. free upgrade). (4) I want SciFi HD and Speed HD (although I think the later will be a major disappointment with only NASCAR and reality crap in HD).

Did any of you new order HR20 guys have to give your Credit Card number?Yes, I paid the $213. I'll offset that with my credits. The $150 credit and the first month $10 credit is already posted to my D* account.

Yes, I paid the $213. I'll offset that with my credits.

Okay, just wondering. Thanks.

...or we are in the middle of a two-year contract in which we get all of the movie channels and an HD box for less than $60 per month.

Be careful. I had a one-year contract, good price as well. Eight months into it I added HD content at list price. Within a few weeks received the next bill, Charter was charging me over $40 more a month. I called, they explained I had "broken" the contract. Charter didn't say boo about this when I priced and ordered the HD. When they talk to a client they should be looking at records and KNOW if the customer is under a contract or not and advise that ANY changes to service will null and void said contract.

Be careful. I had a one-year contract, good price as well. Eight months into it I added HD content at list price. Within a few weeks received the next bill, Charter was charging me over $40 more a month. I called, they explained I had "broken" the contract. Charter didn't say boo about this when I priced and ordered the HD. When they talk to a client they should be looking at records and KNOW if the customer is under a contract or not and advise that ANY changes to service will null and void said contract.

It was probably just a CS rep that didn't know any better or didn't care.... I know I added the HD package on half way through my last contract no problem. None the less worth the heads up I suppose for anyone making account changes during a promotion to make sure it doesn't break anything.

-Phatty

Wow, that is harsh. Upgrading content breaks your contract. I could see downgrading, but upgrading???

I remember seeing something about this a while ago. Is this a local HD channel? I think I remember some of the CBS stations ended up with this in the stream.

To clarify my original post a bit.

I am getting the HD locals over the air. The message comes up when you display the shows info. Also I do not have the HR10-250 connected via HDMI. I am not sure if you would see the message if you are not connected using the component video outputs. This may be a feature of the new 6.3b software since I never noticed it before 6.3b was installed. I could do a screen capture if anyone is interested in seeing the actual text.

I know what you are talking about. I think it is a CBS thing. The shows you mentioned were CBS, correct?

Wow, that is harsh. Upgrading content breaks your contract. I could see downgrading, but upgrading???Makes you wonder why Charter has financial problems. :rolleyes:

Now when I just got D* to upgrade me free with two new DVRs on threat of canceling, they could have pointed out I'm closer to the beginning than end of a two year commitment. They could have told me I would have to pay to upgrade and tough luck otherwise. But they didn't. They respected that I'm a long term customer and took care of me.

Wow, that is harsh. Upgrading content breaks your contract. I could see downgrading, but upgrading???

When I "upgraded" to my current HD Tivo D* wanted to make me commit to a 2 year agreement. I had to talk to a supervisor in retention to finally get them to waive it.

If I get the new HR20 lease will that start a new contract? I guess that is a stupid question as I'm sure it will since they are paying for the unit not me. Nevermind.

Scott

cartilage,

Interesting (not in a good way)...however, I watched "Two and A Half Men" on Monday night and didn't see any message. I didn't start watching until about 5 minutes in, so I went in through the Now Playing List and didn't see anything like that. I eventually caught up to real time, but still didn't get any messages like you've mentioned. Unfortunately, I erased the show immediately after watching it, so there's no way for me to go back and see if I missed something.

Appreciate any additional detail you can provide...The message is in the info window where the description of the show/episode resides.

...
If I get the new HR20 lease will that start a new contract? I guess that is a stupid question as I'm sure it will since they are paying for the unit not me. Nevermind.Yes. I agreed to it, but I had started a two year commitment last July anyway. So it starts starts now instead. I'm not bothered by it.

cartilage,

I am also using component out on my HD TiVo. I do recall checking the display banner during the show (Lorre always names each show after one of the one-liners in the show) and I didn't notice that information. Then again, I was looking at the show title, not anything else.

Will definitely check this next week. I assume that this would be discussed in the Programming Forum here...gotta check.

Didn't see this being discussed at the Programming Forum, checking through the first three pages of the index. Nothing obvious there, at least...

BTW, I'm not saying this isn't happening -- I just want more info.

I know what you are talking about. I think it is a CBS thing. The shows you mentioned were CBS, correct?

Actually Ellen is on local channel 5 which is NBC. All the others are on local 4 which is CBS. So it looks like it is not just a CBS thing.

Okay, thanks. That is what I was looking for. I swear the last time it showed up it was just CBS.

I wish we had some engineers on here that could look at it. It is a setting in the stream.

Did any of you new order HR20 guys have to give your Credit Card number?
They didn't ask for CC when I orderd but they probably have it on file as I have it direct billed to CC.

Why are you guys getting the HR20's when you already have the HR10-250's? Just curious.
Scott

As much as I love the Tivo inteface, I'm losing confidence that things are going to fixed in an acceptable timeframe.

Some of the networking options for photos/music as well as the multiple active outputs are valuable to me.

I'm ready for new bugs with the HR20 :)

They didn't ask for CC when I orderd but they probably have it on file as I have it direct billed to CC.



As much as I love the Tivo inteface, I'm losing confidence that things are going to fixed in an acceptable timeframe.

Some of the networking options for photos/music as well as the multiple active outputs are valuable to me.

I'm ready for new bugs with the HR20 :)

I guess I'll have to look into it. I know literally nothing about he HR20. I had no idea there were networking options.

Scott

Wow, that is harsh. Upgrading content breaks your contract. I could see downgrading, but upgrading???

Agreed. When I called to talk about the price increase I spoke to three different people. They were all on the same page. Any changes, plus or minus, voided the contract.

Add to that the lack of ABC-HD and now CBS-HD, and the comparitively minimal HD lineup, I was ready to jump to E*. Only problem is I have 4 TVs and want the 622 to solely feed one of them. E* tells me that's the same as "5" TVs and no can do. Waiting impatiently for AT&T IPTV. :cool:

Yep, with a VIIV pc you can network with your PC to stream music and videos, you can also
do this with WMP11, you just have to know how.

It is pretty cool. When you stream audio, it shuts down the audio of the TV program you are
watching and plays the MP3.

You can also listen to MP3s while you are looking at your pictures. These are nice features but
if you have an XBOX360, or a media center extender, it is basically the same thing.

Another thing the networking is going to allow you to do is VOD through DirecTV.

Agreed. When I called to talk about the price increase I spoke to three different people. They were all on the same page. Any changes, plus or minus, voided the contract.

Add to that the lack of ABC-HD and now CBS-HD, and the comparitively minimal HD lineup, I was ready to jump to E*. Only problem is I have 4 TVs and want the 622 to solely feed one of them. E* tells me that's the same as "5" TVs and no can do. Waiting impatiently for AT&T IPTV. :cool:

Wow, how many people in your household? With the miriad of connection options on the 622 I would think you could make one 622 and some additional receivers work out for you. But, you know you set up and I don't.

Scott

Did anyone notice KSDK last night HD programing. they had to overlay the amber alert (which is a good thing) but they broadcasted the SD signal over the digital signal and it wasn't showing any shows in HD.

KSDK has some technical problems when they try to overlay local information over the national feed. I think it is a human error, like lack of training or they forget they have 2 signals a SD and HD one..

Any thoughts?

Interesting. I'm located in Creve Coeur and I get a solid 100 in signal strength on Fox 2 HD. However, I continue to get occasional, brief picture breakups or macro blocks when they broadcast in HD. It happenned maybe 20 times during the two House episodes last night. I wonder if it's local or the network.

I know I'm a little late to this discussion, but the "blips" during House, Prison Break and 24 all originate locally. I hounded the local engineer about 2 years ago about it and the problem got better, but it never was fixed. Generally, I end up watching the National feed on D*88. Another reason why I haven't upgraded to the new MPG-4 receivers yet...because I don't wan't to loose D*88 (yes Scott, I remember you were able to keep yours, but I think you also stated the you are long-time "grand-fathered" into the national feeds--yes, I'm jealous).

Wow, how many people in your household? With the miriad of connection options on the 622 I would think you could make one 622 and some additional receivers work out for you. But, you know you set up and I don't.

Scott

Scott,

His problem is he wants to use the 622 in Single Mode. Then I am assumning Dish is telling him it still counts for 2 rooms even though he is using it for one room. Then they probably want to give him only 2 more rooms. He does have some options though. If he never watches the TV with the 622 and even one other TV simultaneously he can do what Ken mentioned the other day. Which is to set up the 622 in single mode on the primary TV. Run coax to 2nd SD TV, and then flip the 622 to dual mode when he wants to watch the 2nd TV.

Or if any 2 of the other 3 TVs are not watched simultaneously he can mirror them with a receiver. That means these 2 TVs have to be watching the same thing (not a concern if they are never viewed simultaneously). They could also lose some PQ, but it is SD anyway and if it is on smaller screens it won't be very noticeable if at all.

Again Ken can correct me if I have stated anything incorrectly, or if I have missed an option. Also, in the future he would be able to possibly add a receiver, maybe after 1 year of service. There are rules, and there are exceptions. Exceptions are easier to get when you have been there a while ;).

I still have 88. I have watched numerous things via SAT provided KTVI and haven't noticed
any problems.

I have House DVR'd at home, I'll watch it tonight and let you know if there are issues.

I know I'm a little late to this discussion, but the "blips" during House, Prison Break and 24 all originate locally. I hounded the local engineer about 2 years ago about it and the problem got better, but it never was fixed. Generally, I end up watching the National feed on D*88. Another reason why I haven't upgraded to the new MPG-4 receivers yet...because I don't wan't to loose D*88 (yes Scott, I remember you were able to keep yours, but I think you also stated the you are long-time "grand-fathered" into the national feeds--yes, I'm jealous).

I don't think having 88 and 86 have anything to do with being grandfathered in and I don't have mpeg 4 yet. I do get the east/west feeds 380,381,382, etc. That is probably what you're referring to.

Scott

I don't think having 88 and 86 have anything to do with being grandfathered in and I don't have mpeg 4 yet. I do get the east/west feeds 380,381,382, etc. That is probably what you're referring to.

Scott
OK, so I'm a little confused :rolleyes: . Lately, it's hard to keep up with the pages that are being added daily to this thread.

Actually, I think I remember reading some people had their D*88 turned off when they went to mpeg 4. Bottom line is I don't want to risk loosing 88 until I have to.

OK, so I'm a little confused :rolleyes: . Lately, it's hard to keep up with the pages that are being added daily to this thread.

Actually, I think I remember reading some people had their D*88 turned off when they went to mpeg 4. Bottom line is I don't want to risk loosing 88 until I have to.

I agree. I watch 88 all the time as there are no audio lapses like on 2.1. I think I will likely put off the mpeg 4 switch as long as possible to avoid the 2 year commitment and possibly loosing 88 and 86. Plus, I like to have the non commitment as a bargaining chip later even though I will likely never leave D* as long as they have NFL Sunday Ticket. Speaking of football, is it asking too much that the entire Patriot's team get food poisoning Saturday night? :eek:

Scott

I have replace my LG and Sony's with the H20's so I guess now is the time maybe to replace the HR10-250. Are there any issues with the HR20 (like those with the Tivo) and is the OTA activated yet.

Thanks
Tom

I know I'm a little late to this discussion, but the "blips" during House, Prison Break and 24 all originate locally. I hounded the local engineer about 2 years ago about it and the problem got better, but it never was fixed. Generally, I end up watching the National feed on D*88. Another reason why I haven't upgraded to the new MPG-4 receivers yet...because I don't wan't to loose D*88 (yes Scott, I remember you were able to keep yours, but I think you also stated the you are long-time "grand-fathered" into the national feeds--yes, I'm jealous).

"Blips" is the ideal description. The video never looses sync. Only a bunch of big blocks tend to flash on the screen.

I have replace my LG and Sony's with the H20's so I guess now is the time maybe to replace the HR10-250. Are there any issues with the HR20 (like those with the Tivo) and is the OTA activated yet.

Thanks
Tom

Yes, OTA is now active. There are bugs with the software, but they are being resolved.

Take a look at the HR20 forum on DBStalk.com. I can try to answer any questions you may have.

"Blips" is the ideal description. The video never looses sync. Only a bunch of big blocks tend to flash on the screen.

I have noticed a line of about 8 blocks while watching some things on KTVI HD via DirecTV. But it doesn't actually cause any problems. It is just one line on my screen and it goes away.

In case Jim (WR Racer) is lurking:

I tuned in to GMA today on 30-DT and found the text crawl to be unreadable. I have a DLP RPTV with minimal overscan yet half the crawl falls below the bottom of my display. While this may look fine on a direct view LCD or Plasma, there appears to be no overscan compensation.

Not sure if this is an anomaly as I normally watch the Today Show and was flipping channels. But it looked very bad on my set.

Wow, how many people in your household? With the miriad of connection options on the 622 I would think you could make one 622 and some additional receivers work out for you. But, you know you set up and I don't.

Scott
Two kids in upstairs bedrooms, my bedroom TV and the main room HDTV. I understand that if I use the 622 for both main room and my bedroom TVs, and both are in use, I can't record one channel and watch another on the HDTV.

I guess that's the ultimate question, what can I do for HD and SD recording if both TVs are watching live TV? Sounds very limited. Again, I'd prefer to use the 622 exclusively for the HDTV and get another tuner for my bedroom, but they said no. All TVs have unspliced cables leading to perfect dish location, I understand only one is needed for 622 as a splitter is used locally for the 2 tuner inputs.

Scott,

His problem is he wants to use the 622 in Single Mode. Then I am assumning Dish is telling him it still counts for 2 rooms even though he is using it for one room. Then they probably want to give him only 2 more rooms. He does have some options though. If he never watches the TV with the 622 and even one other TV simultaneously he can do what Ken mentioned the other day. Which is to set up the 622 in single mode on the primary TV. Run coax to 2nd SD TV, and then flip the 622 to dual mode when he wants to watch the 2nd TV.

Or if any 2 of the other 3 TVs are not watched simultaneously he can mirror them with a receiver. That means these 2 TVs have to be watching the same thing (not a concern if they are never viewed simultaneously). They could also lose some PQ, but it is SD anyway and if it is on smaller screens it won't be very noticeable if at all.

Again Ken can correct me if I have stated anything incorrectly, or if I have missed an option. Also, in the future he would be able to possibly add a receiver, maybe after 1 year of service. There are rules, and there are exceptions. Exceptions are easier to get when you have been there a while ;).

Deuces, thanks for explaining the options so well. I'll try the exceptions (begging) approach first running a cable from the 622 to one of the other TVs would be a major pain. :D

Yes, OTA is now active. There are bugs with the software, but they are being resolved.

Take a look at the HR20 forum on DBStalk.com. I can try to answer any questions you may have.

Thanks for your help. Just pick one up at Best Buy so we will see how it works.

Tom

Two kids in upstairs bedrooms, my bedroom TV and the main room HDTV. I understand that if I use the 622 for both main room and my bedroom TVs, and both are in use, I can't record one channel and watch another on the HDTV.

I guess that's the ultimate question, what can I do for HD and SD recording if both TVs are watching live TV? Sounds very limited. Again, I'd prefer to use the 622 exclusively for the HDTV and get another tuner for my bedroom, but they said no. All TVs have unspliced cables leading to perfect dish location, I understand only one is needed for 622 as a splitter is used locally for the 2 tuner inputs.

It's my impression if you send one coax to your bedroom, you would be able to watch either tuner 1 or 2 via the modulated signal. That would allow you to watch HD on tuner 1 on the HDTV and simultaneously watch SD on the tuner 2 in the bedroom. The only downside is not being able to view HD in the bedroom. Would this not work for you?

Scott

I have a cabling question for anyone here.

I have Sirius and I want to install a home antenna, I already have it outside but I actually
need to run the COAX in the wall.

It uses a SMB connector to connect to the back of the radio. What kind of wallplate do I need
so that I can terminate it at the wall? I really don't like the wire running through just a hole but
I guess I could do it if necessary.

Is a BNC adapter anything close to a SMB connector?

http://www.showmecables.com/showProducts.asp?category_id=407

Can't you keep the antenna inside like I do? Anway, here is a link to a wallplate.

Edit: Sorry, I don't think the link I provided is what you need.

The page I got when I clicked are F connector wall plates.

As far as keeping it inside. I tried and it never worked. So I bought the outside antenna
and I haven't had any problems. My wife just doesn't like that I have the cable coming through
the windows and draping along the wall to the S50 Home Dock. :rolleyes: women

The page I got when I clicked are F connector wall plates.

As far as keeping it inside. I tried and it never worked. So I bought the outside antenna
and I haven't had any problems. My wife just doesn't like that I have the cable coming through
the windows and draping along the wall to the S50 Home Dock. :rolleyes: women

what about a normal wallplate with just a open circle to push the wire through? That would look clean and neat. Ask her if that would be ok.

what about a normal wallplate with just a open circle to push the wire through? That would look clean and neat. Ask her if that would be ok.

Yeah, I know. That is pretty much getting to be my only option.

It is likely the best option too. Less splices in the chain.

In case Jim (WR Racer) is lurking:

I tuned in to GMA today on 30-DT and found the text crawl to be unreadable. I have a DLP RPTV with minimal overscan yet half the crawl falls below the bottom of my display. While this may look fine on a direct view LCD or Plasma, there appears to be no overscan compensation.

Not sure if this is an anomaly as I normally watch the Today Show and was flipping channels. But it looked very bad on my set.

The crawl generator locked up and the crawl had to be rebuilt...maybe they got it too low. Tom, at the station, please check into this.
Jim

Okay, who is TOM????

It's my impression if you send one coax to your bedroom, you would be able to watch either tuner 1 or 2 via the modulated signal. That would allow you to watch HD on tuner 1 on the HDTV and simultaneously watch SD on the tuner 2 in the bedroom. The only downside is not being able to view HD in the bedroom. Would this not work for you?

Scott
The concern is that I would be downgrading my current recording capability if both TVs are watching live. With Charter I can simultaneously record two programs, or watch one and record another. The 622 dual TV solution won't let me record anything other than what I'm watching, again if both TVs are on. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, just spoke to E* again, four tuners max, 622 counts as two. Begging didn't help. Told to buy another receiver elsewhere for the fourth TV and then come back to them. :eek:

The concern is that I would be downgrading my current recording capability if both TVs are watching live. With Charter I can simultaneously record two programs, or watch one and record another. The 622 dual TV solution won't let me record anything other than what I'm watching, again if both TVs are on. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, just spoke to E* again, four tuners max, 622 counts as two. Begging didn't help. Told to buy another receiver elsewhere for the fourth TV and then come back to them. :eek:

I'm sure Ken would know, but I think you could record one and watch another. Or, record two at the same time. You could watch either tv1 or tv2 and record on either at the same time I believe. the only downside is when you want to record two shows at the same time, but watch a 3rd. Although this could even be done if you have a tuner in your TV.

I think it's crazy that they would not simply allow you to get another receiver. Don't you have to pay additional money for each receiver? This is crazy if you ask me. I would have a major problem with Dish over this.

Scott

The concern is that I would be downgrading my current recording capability if both TVs are watching live. With Charter I can simultaneously record two programs, or watch one and record another. The 622 dual TV solution won't let me record anything other than what I'm watching, again if both TVs are on. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, just spoke to E* again, four tuners max, 622 counts as two. Begging didn't help. Told to buy another receiver elsewhere for the fourth TV and then come back to them. :eek:

You can record up to three events simultaneously while watching a fourth event that's recorded on the DVR. Keep in mind that you are limited to three recordings by the fact that the 622 has two sat receivers and one OTA receiver. You can even record three HD shows simultaneously while watching a recorded fourth HD program if it happens to work out that way.

Moman,

So how many tuners does the 622 have?

2 dedicated SAT tuners
1 dedicated OTA tuner
1 shared software/split SAT tuner

Dual Mode-no OTA
Ex 1:
TV1-viewing live
TV2-viewing live (different than TV1)
DVR-recording live (different than TV1 and TV2)

Ex 2:
TV1-viewing playback
TV2-viewing playback (different than TV1)
DVR-recording 2 live (if recording 1, live becomes available to either TV1 or TV2 - different than TV1 and TV2)

Dual Mode-with OTA
Ex 1:
TV1-viewing live SAT
TV2-viewing live (different than TV1)
DVR-recording 1 live SAT + 1 live OTA

Ex 2:
TV1-viewing playback
TV2-viewing playback (different than TV1)
DVR-recording 3 live - 2 SAT + 1 OTA

All examples are HD or SD, it makes no difference. With the ability to seamlessly toggle between single and dual mode, the different combinations become extensive.

Okay, who is TOM????

OMG, this really did make me laugh out loud! :D

Looks like KSDK CH-5 is not going to broadcast in HD tonight again.....They are showing the amber alert (which is fine). I turned the Today show on this morning and KSDK was show HD with a single bar accross the screen for the amber alert. I guess teh engeneering staff in the morning know how do not interupt HD tv and the evening staff does not...

2 dedicated SAT tuners
1 dedicated OTA tuner
1 shared software/split SAT tuner

Dual Mode-no OTA
Ex 1:
TV1-viewing live
TV2-viewing live (different than TV1)
DVR-recording live (different than TV1 and TV2)

Ex 2:
TV1-viewing playback
TV2-viewing playback (different than TV1)
DVR-recording 2 live (if recording 1, live becomes available to either TV1 or TV2 - different than TV1 and TV2)

Dual Mode-with OTA
Ex 1:
TV1-viewing live SAT
TV2-viewing live (different than TV1)
DVR-recording 1 live SAT + 1 live OTA

Ex 2:
TV1-viewing playback
TV2-viewing playback (different than TV1)
DVR-recording 3 live - 2 SAT + 1 OTA

All examples are HD or SD, it makes no difference. With the ability to seamlessly toggle between single and dual mode, the different combinations become extensive.

Thanks Ken,

I would think this would work for Stlbluesfan would it not? Either way, Dish should give him what he wants.

Scott

Thanks to Doug's suggestion, I now have St Louis OTA - almost. KNDL (ABC 30) has "video stutter" in HD. Audio, closed caption, guide are all perfect but the HD video looks like an old time movie. This was on According to Jim tonight.

Is this a problem that has an easy fix?

Thanks

I still have 88. I have watched numerous things via SAT provided KTVI and haven't noticed
any problems.

I have House DVR'd at home, I'll watch it tonight and let you know if there are issues.


Okay, here are two pictures I took. This was the breakup I was talking about.

I had to stop, rewind, play, rewind, stop, and finally set my camera on 3 burst
pictures to capture this because it is so fast.

If you want to see the real size photos, go to:

House1 (http://www.harvesterlionsclub-mo.org/Photos/DSC00010.JPG)
House2 (http://www.harvesterlionsclub-mo.org/Photos/DSC00015.JPG)


Sorry about the hosting website address...I admin it.

Thanks to Doug's suggestion, I now have St Louis OTA - almost. KNDL (ABC 30) has "video stutter" in HD. Audio, closed caption, guide are all perfect but the HD video looks like an old time movie. This was on According to Jim tonight.

Is this a problem that has an easy fix?

Thankshodag69,

What type of OTA tuner are you using?

It's hard to say just on the basis of your description, but it sounds like this might be a tuner issue.

Has anyone bought anything from Frys.com? Does anyone have a personal opinion? I know we had a small discussion about this sometime back.