hodag69,

What type of OTA tuner are you using?

It's hard to say just on the basis of your description, but it sounds like this might be a tuner issue.

Doug -

It's Polaroid 37 inch FLM-3734 with a built in tuner. Any suggestions on what to try in setup?

Thanks - hodag

Okay, here are two pictures I took. This was the breakup I was talking about.

I had to stop, rewind, play, rewind, stop, and finally set my camera on 3 burst
pictures to capture this because it is so fast.

If you want to see the real size photos, go to:

House1 (http://www.harvesterlionsclub-mo.org/Photos/DSC00010.JPG)
House2 (http://www.harvesterlionsclub-mo.org/Photos/DSC00015.JPG)


Sorry about the hosting website address...I admin it.

A picture's worth a thousand words. You have some great capture there. I went back to my copy of the show on the 622 and found EXACTLY the same breakup in the same frame. In fact, there were several more frames in that scene that broke up. So now we know one more piece of the puzzle. The question is: How does this info get relayed to Fox and does anyone over there care?

Well the good news is, we don't have to blame our provider, we can blame KTVI. I just don't know who
to contact over there. WRACER, do you or Tom have any ideas?

A picture's worth a thousand words. You have some great capture there. I went back to my copy of the show on the 622 and found EXACTLY the same breakup in the same frame. In fact, there were several more frames in that scene that broke up. So now we know one more piece of the puzzle. The question is: How does this info get relayed to Fox and does anyone over there care?
Okay, here are two pictures I took. This was the breakup I was talking about.

I had to stop, rewind, play, rewind, stop, and finally set my camera on 3 burst
pictures to capture this because it is so fast.

I watched the playback of it tonight. Recorded via the DISH SAT HD local. I didn't notice them, but I did not do the rewind, etc., and I've already erased it :(
Them are some good eyes, Bill!

Another topic--I don't watch much network SD, but did watch the PCA's last night on CBS. Are the side grey bars when viewing 4:3 on a 16:9 something new for KMOV/CBS? All the other channels default is black.

It's there tonight also. Like I said, it may have been all along, just about everything I watch on CBS is in HD now. Dish gives the option of black or gray bars, but I checked, it is set on black, and is black on the other 3, which I can toggle to grey.

Well the good news is, we don't have to blame our provider, we can blame KTVI. I just don't know who
to contact over there. WRACER, do you or Tom have any ideas?
Tom's just the check into things dude at the station....no reason to drag him into it.

Another topic--I don't watch much network SD, but did watch the PCA's last night on CBS. Are the side grey bars when viewing 4:3 on a 16:9 something new for KMOV/CBS? All the other channels default is black.

It's there tonight also. Like I said, it may have been all along, just about everything I watch on CBS is in HD now. Dish gives the option of black or gray bars, but I checked, it is set on black, and is black on the other 3, which I can toggle to grey.

Yeah, KMOV made the decision to go to gray bars after we local guys complained that they were stretching everything, so now it is 16:9 with gray pillars.

Their station engineer was very helpful to me in the early days.

hodag69,

What type of OTA tuner are you using?

It's hard to say just on the basis of your description, but it sounds like this might be a tuner issue.

Doug -

It's Polaroid 37 inch FLM-3734 with a built in tuner. Any suggestions on what to try in setup?

Thanks - hodag

This sounds like an issue I was having recently with KDNL, with a stuttering image. The image would freeze every second or two, for a fraction of a second. It seems to have resolved itself on my 622. It was also a problem I used to have with an old HiPix HD computer capture card. A lot of others with regular tuners were having similar issues with KDNL material at the time.

Maybe Jim had to default back to some old equipment?

This sounds like an issue I was having recently with KDNL, with a stuttering image. The image would freeze every second or two, for a fraction of a second. It seems to have resolved itself on my 622. It was also a problem I used to have with an old HiPix HD computer capture card. A lot of others with regular tuners were having similar issues with KDNL material at the time.

Maybe Jim had to default back to some old equipment?

So what you are saying Joe is that give it time and it might resolve itself?????????

Has anyone bought anything from Frys.com? Does anyone have a personal opinion? I know we had a small discussion about this sometime back.

I have bought from Fry's (Outpost) online....I bought all of my Polk speakers from them. I got the Polk 50's for $69.00 each, the 30's for $49.00 each, and the CSi2 center channel for $99.00. I've known other people that have bought from them with no problems. I go to their website a couple times a week to see what deals they have.

Has anyone bought anything from Frys.com? Does anyone have a personal opinion? I know we had a small discussion about this sometime back.
There's a Frys this-side of Chicago....4 hour drive. If you prefer that.
May want to call ahead and check stock first :D

Thanks guys. They are killing everyone else with a price on a TV I am looking at, just a bit of trepidation I guess.

So what you are saying Joe is that give it time and it might resolve itself?????????

It's not quite as crazy as it sounds. If KDNL makes some changes in their transmission, your tuner may start behaving itself. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, that's what happened some time ago. People were having issues and changes that KDNL made resolved the image stuttering. Jim can correct me if I'm wrong. If it's a hardware problem with your tuner, waiting sure won't help. My problems could be related to something completely different than yours. I don't know what your image problem looks like, or if it's like the one I've been having.

That doesn't help, does it?

Again, can you tell us, Jim, if KDNL has made any changes lately that would cause the old problems to recur?

New Topic:

Hello, I just purchased an OTA HD indoor antenna from RadioShack, it works great when its not windy outside. Right now all my HD local channel images are breaking up and the antenna is in exactly the same spot it was when it wasn't windy, and the picture was clear. Is there anything I can do with this setup so it is not so sensitive to the wind?

Thanks for your help!

I would like to know if anyone has had a similar experience...

I'm a Charter customer who receives HD service along with the Moxi and the mate.

I have an integrated TV in another room (office) that is NOT hooked up to any box or received - straight cable from the wall into the TV.

I'm receiving some QAM channels and was receiving the local network channels on channels 105.1 thru 105.5. The one day they just vanished.

I'm also able to receive signals from when other people order OnDemand items.

Just wanted to know if anyone had experienced anything similar and if there was a channel list available for the unscrambled digital channels that are coming thru in St. Louis via Charter.

jsigo,

Assuming your antenna is tight and securely mounted, wind shouldn't be having the sort of effect that you're reporting. Based on what you say is happening, I think you should check your outdoor cabling and grounding. It sounds like movement of the cable may be causing the signal to cut in and out.

chatanp,

What you're reporting is pretty normal, though what is available via QAM varies by market/cable provider. For example, in Kansas City via Time-Warner Cable most, if not all, of the local digitals are available unencrypted via a QAM tuner. But that's not the case here.

Also, I think it's one of the unintended features of QAM tuners that you can pick up PPV programming that is ordered by customers on the same branch of the cable network as you're on.

As far as I can recall, no one has ever put together a list of the Charter stations that are visible unencrypted via a QAM tuner. But if you want to volunteer to do that, I'll include it in the resource note (see next message) that gets posted here every 10 days or so...

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

In the past, we used to begin each month of the St. Louis discussion with an entirely new thread and usually that started with a cut/paste of basic resource information that is now buried back on the very first page of this discussion thread.

Because of its location, a lot of that general, introductory information about HDTV and OTA reception is now easily overlooked, especially with the discussion here stretching back more than 3 years and approaching 600 pages.

So, in order to this introductory information more accessible, I post an advisory/reminder note similar to this every couple of weeks. The idea is to make this general resource information more visible and easier to find for more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

Hopefully, you'll find this information of some use...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995679&&#post2995679)

Using An Antenna to Receive Local HD Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995718&&#post2995718)

Common Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8523674&&#post8523674)

Why Isn't KDNL-DT (ABC) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8072643&&#post8072643)

New! St. Louis Blues in HD Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8678636&&#post8678636)

2006 Survey Results: HDTV in St. Louis

Part 1: Profile of Survey Respondents (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9075182&&#post9075182)

Part 2: Local Digital Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9091629&&#post9091629)

Part 3: Digital Multicasting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9127512&&#post9127512)

Part 4: Customer Ratings for Charter, DirecTV & DISH HD Services (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9157953&&#post9157953)

Part 5: Customer Ratings for Pay TV HD Channels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9315435&&#post9315435)

Part 6: Best Picture/Sound Ratings & HD Wish Lists (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9402842&&#post9402842)

Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

"Tom" has not done his job yet. The crawl at 30-DT still falls below view. The SD channel has this positioned correctly. On 30-00 the time is located to the left of the ABC bug with the crawl correctly placed under both. On 30-01 the time is located under the ABC-HD bug with the crawl placed BENEATH the time. This seems to be the root of the problem.

chatanp,

As far as I can recall, no one has ever put together a list of the Charter stations that are visible unencrypted via a QAM tuner. But if you want to volunteer to do that, I'll include it in the resource note (see next message) that gets posted here every 10 days or so...

Doug,

Here's a post someone made a few pages back detailing what they can pickup via their Olevia QAM tuner: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9389832&&#post9389832

Not sure if that list is exhaustive, but it's a start.

Glendale,

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll include some link to this the next time I do the resource note update.

Poor Tom.

But for the record, he was only asked to "check it," not fix it. Maybe he has checked it... :D

DirecTV, Intel Announce HD DVR Viiv-Verified, Open Beta Testing

So, does this mean I could permanently archive DVR recordings to PC storage, and then stream them back to the DVR for future playback?

The following story is from today's Retail Bridge newsletter:
__________________________________________________________

DIRECTV on Wednesday announced that its DIRECTV Plus HD DVR has been verified with Intel Viiv technology, making the satellite provider the largest supplier of Viiv-verified digital media adapters.

"Today's announcement marries the millions of Intel Viiv technology-based PC owners with DIRECTV's high-definition TV viewers in a way that has never been done before," said Kevin Corbett, vice president of Intel's Digital Home Group. "DIRECTV's product exemplifies what a digital or connected home is all about where PCs, TVs and CE devices all work in concert together and consumers enjoy their entertainment on a variety of screens and devices when and where they want to."

For customers, this means they can now use their DVR to access pictures and music on their Viiv-based PC. This pictures and music functionality is available as a public beta trial, but the real fun will start later this year when DIRECTV adds the ability to stream video between Viiv PC and TV.

"We announced our alliance with Intel at the 2006 Consumer Electronics Show and we are happy to be here today, one year later, to show you the fruits of our labor," said Romulo Pontual, DIRECTV's executive vice president and CTO. "The way people consume media is rapidly evolving and connectivity between digital devices is becoming an essential part of the home ecosystem. DIRECTV understands this evolution and is delivering innovative solutions to make sure our customers stay connected."
__________________________________________________________

Doug,

Here's a post someone made a few pages back detailing what they can pickup via their Olevia QAM tuner: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9389832&&#post9389832

Not sure if that list is exhaustive, but it's a start.

I just reread this post. The poster could get ESPN Full Court for free via QAM?

WOW!

DirecTV, Intel Announce HD DVR Viiv-Verified, Open Beta Testing

So, does this mean I could permanently archive DVR recordings to PC storage, and then stream them back to the DVR for future playback?



Nope. It is only ONE way. It streams to the DVR, not from. You also don't need a
VIIV machine. I am doing it using a home built AMD 2005 Media Center PC with WMP11.

Nope. It is only ONE way. It streams to the DVR, not from. You also don't need a
VIIV machine. I am doing it using a home built AMD 2005 Media Center PC with WMP11.Will it work using Windows Media Connect on XP Pro?

Nope. It is only ONE way. It streams to the DVR, not from.That is fricking lame. But I know who to blame...and it's not DirecTV or Intel. :mad:

Will it work using Windows Media Connect on XP Pro?

I dunno, I would have to look. People at DBStalk.com are using all kinds of stuff to make it work.
I didn't feel like downloading anything so I just set up WMP11.

E* installer came out yesterday. As I feared, no dice, no line of sight. Can't nail all th points.

Now, one of the biggest reasons I was going for Dish is because I have my other services through ATT&T.

I happen to have a casual friend who instals D*, so I called him and he came over.

Great news! Because of D* have a smaller range, he can install it. The dish will go far out from the house, about 40-50 feet, behind a fence. A complete clear shot. Plus it's out of the way. Away from the house and away from where the kids will play. (Basically part of the property we don't use)

Because he is a friend he is fast tracking me for an HD DVR, he believes he will have one for me within a couple weeks. And to keep me happy, he is giving me an old D* HD receiver so that I can hook it up and receive free OTA HD...so I'll still be able to catch CSI and football.

He's also waving the install fees, because the dish is going so far out, if I help him plant the pole and dig the trench for the cable, and help with running the cable through the basement, we are solid.

I should have went with this guy and D* in the first place.

I dunno, I would have to look. People at DBStalk.com are using all kinds of stuff to make it work.
I didn't feel like downloading anything so I just set up WMP11.OK. Just curious. It doesn't matter that much for me, since I'm getting a MacBook Pro sometime this year.

I currently have my OTA antenna signal split one time to 2 tuners. I think there is an amp feeding one of them (not sure I did not do that part of the install). There is no amp between the antenna and the second feed I made. Am I crazy to try to add a 3rd tuner? Should I just get a second antenna? I currently have 98-100 on CBS, FOX, NBC, I have 80s on ABC, and 70s on PBS (PBS is not a major concern, of course until those twins get here lol). Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you.

Edit: Those signals are similar on both tuners, amp or no amp.

jsigo,

Assuming your antenna is tight and securely mounted, wind shouldn't be having the sort of effect that you're reporting. Based on what you say is happening, I think you should check your outdoor cabling and grounding. It sounds like movement of the cable may be causing the signal to cut in and out.
Doug,
That was my thought, but jsigo said it's an indoor UHF. Maybe change the indoor location of the antenna :confused:

I currently have my OTA antenna signal split one time to 2 tuners. I think there is an amp feeding one of them (not sure I did not do that part of the install). There is no amp between the antenna and the second feed I made. Am I crazy to try to add a 3rd tuner? Should I just get a second antenna? I currently have 98-100 on CBS, FOX, NBC, I have 80s on ABC, and 70s on PBS (PBS is not a major concern, of course until those twins get here lol). Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you.

Edit: Those signals are similar on both tuners, amp or no amp.
I feed 4 TV's off one antenna/downfeed. Where it comes in, it splits 4x. 1 goes directly to a tuner where it come in, and the other 3, each go into a line-amp, and then to their tuners.

The runs vary from 30-70' from the amps, and the signal is the same on all tuners....no drop.

OK. Just curious. It doesn't matter that much for me, since I'm getting a MacBook Pro sometime this year.

Some people have claimed to get it working on a Mac with other software at dbstalk (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=752013&highlight=mac#post752013).

Looks like photo display quality isn't great yet . .but it's an interesting start.

Good luck,
Token

1 goes directly to a tuner where it come in, and the other 3, each go into a line-amp, and then to their tuners.
If it works, it works. But for others attempting to do the same, would it not be better engineering to put the line amp BEFORE the splitter?

(If it were practical, the best place for an RF amplifier would be at the antenna -- but none of us want to run the power wiring for it!)

Doug,
That was my thought, but jsigo said it's an indoor UHF. Maybe change the indoor location of the antenna :confused:Doh! :o

Now, I'm really stumped -- that really doesn't make a lot of sense. The only thing I can think of is that the wind is moving trees (or something) enough to create a multipath issue. But that just seems really unlikely.

I don't know much about the Radio Shack indoor antennas. And I don't know that a Silver Sensor would make any difference, but I still consider the SS to be the gold standard for indoor reception, at least until something clearly superior comes along.

If it works, it works. But for others attempting to do the same, would it not be better engineering to put the line amp BEFORE the splitter?

(If it were practical, the best place for an RF amplifier would be at the antenna -- but none of us want to run the power wiring for it!)
I didn't describe it correctly, that is how it's configed. There is a pre-amp on the antenna. That virgin line comes down, and then is split to TV's via their own line-amp, which also serves as the splitter.
The line from the antenna enters into a powered line-amp, and then is split to 3each line amp splitters, and then off to their respective tuner.

Did anyone else notice in the latest "newsletter" from Charter that they're bragging about their HD lineup?

Winter Sports Heat Up With HD
Slap shots, slam dunks, touchdowns - even the brawls look stunning in the crystal clarity of high-definition. But you'll want to make sure your HDTV is getting true HD.

(sorry, can't post a link because I haven't posted more than 5 times)

If you click on the link in the newsletter, it lists their HD channels, including ABC, but no CBS listed right now. What kind of morons work in their marketing department?

I guess I shouldn't worry about anymore since I switched to E* :)

I just reread this post. The poster could get ESPN Full Court for free via QAM?

WOW!

Yea, last night I just happened tp noticed there were a bunch of college bastketball games on, they all had the 'ESPN Full Court' logo in the corner. I then realized, I was receiving the ESPN Full Court package via QAM!

I then continued to scan forward, and found I was receiving FSN Florida and TSN showing various NHL games - not than I'm a hockey fan.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the MLB extra innings games when they start in April.

Did anyone else notice in the latest "newsletter" from Charter that they're bragging about their HD lineup?

Winter Sports Heat Up With HD
Slap shots, slam dunks, touchdowns - even the brawls look stunning in the crystal clarity of high-definition. But you'll want to make sure your HDTV is getting true HD.

(sorry, can't post a link because I haven't posted more than 5 times)

If you click on the link in the newsletter, it lists their HD channels, including ABC, but no CBS listed right now. What kind of morons work in their marketing department?

I guess I shouldn't worry about anymore since I switched to E* :)

That's odd the newsletter I got says nothing about Winter Sports. Just about winning a trip to Jamaica and SciFi premeires, protecting your computer against "the flu" LOL.

Yea, last night I just happened tp noticed there were a bunch of college bastketball games on, they all had the 'ESPN Full Court' logo in the corner. I then realized, I was receiving the ESPN Full Court package via QAM!

I then continued to scan forward, and found I was receiving FSN Florida and TSN showing various NHL games - not than I'm a hockey fan.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the MLB extra innings games when they start in April.

Wow, Charter + QAM might be a pretty good deal, lol.

Edit: Don't tell you know who I said that. ;)

A closer and more accurate reading of the link indicates that its a list of HD channels offered system wide, and CBS is in fact included, as the last station listed. Universal HD is also included, as is ABC. So, what they are saying is that these channels are offered, but they also have an asterisk, that not all stations all offered in all markets, such as in St. Louis, with no Universal HD, ABC, and now, no CBS. And, no doubt, Charter does probably offer CBS, ABC, and Universal HD in some select cities (where Sinclair and Belo don't own the channels).

The guy at Best Buy was talking to me about wireless coax jacks. Basically sounded like a wireless phone jack. He said the signal is sent by RF. He claims there is no signal loss? Is this possible? Anyone have any experience with them?

I would think there would be potential for plenty of interference.

Wow, Charter + QAM might be a pretty good deal, lol.

Edit: Don't tell you know who I said that. ;)

He's not here any more. Banned twice.

jsigo,

Assuming your antenna is tight and securely mounted, wind shouldn't be having the sort of effect that you're reporting. Based on what you say is happening, I think you should check your outdoor cabling and grounding. It sounds like movement of the cable may be causing the signal to cut in and out.

Thanks Doug, but the OTA antenna is indoors and all my local HD channels (2.1 4,1, 30.1, etc.) are breaking up. It seems to be very sensitive to wind, such as a day like today in St. Louis. Is there anything I can do?

So I heard. Nothing left to laugh at.

The guy at Best Buy was talking to me about wireless coax jacks. Basically sounded like a wireless phone jack. He said the signal is sent by RF. He claims there is no signal loss? Is this possible? Anyone have any experience with them?

I would think there would be potential for plenty of interference.


Can you buy it and try it? If it doesn't work, maybe you can take it back... With no wires to run it wouldn't take too long to hook up.

So I heard. Nothing left to laugh at.

Until it resurfaces with another user name some day. Be on the lookout.

Well, I'm glad the PM made it to so many! I didn't want to clutter up everyones inbox.

chatanp,

What you're reporting is pretty normal, though what is available via QAM varies by market/cable provider. For example, in Kansas City via Time-Warner Cable most, if not all, of the local digitals are available unencrypted via a QAM tuner. But that's not the case here.

Also, I think it's one of the unintended features of QAM tuners that you can pick up PPV programming that is ordered by customers on the same branch of the cable network as you're on.

As far as I can recall, no one has ever put together a list of the Charter stations that are visible unencrypted via a QAM tuner. But if you want to volunteer to do that, I'll include it in the resource note (see next message) that gets posted here every 10 days or so...

Here's the list again slightly updated on what I can pick up with a samsung set top and an olevia built in qam tuner.

67-3 TNT HD *could only get with the samsung set top box
79-10 - charter's vod/ppv commercial channel
80-15 thru 80-20 NHL Center ice
81-1 thru 81-6 - ESPN Full court basketball
81-11 thru 81-14 NHL Center ice
82-3 + 82-4 - PBS and PBS kids sub channel
82-6 - CW's sub channel thetube
83-7 - infomercials
90-15 - local real estate
93-61 thru 93-72 - blank with 93-72 having charter's vod/ppv commercials running in a tiny box in the upper right corner
102-3 - ksdk's sub channel weather
105-6 - abc
105-7 my46stl
105-8 thru 106-9 - various infomercials, charter ads, a single espn full court basketball game, cspan, religious channels, home shopping
106-10 - wgn
106-11 thru 118-30 - more religious channels and infomercials with 118-30 the tvguide channel
After 118-30 - Other people's vod

Anyone know of silver sensor retailers with available units in town? I don't want to wait for online delivery.
Thanks

Anyone who recently ordered a HR20 care to share their installation date?

I didn't recevie a call to schedule so I called today to inquire about getting a date and the earliest I could get was in April. :rolleyes:

I guess I'll stop reading about the new HR20 features for a few months ;)


Token

Until it resurfaces with another user name some day. Be on the lookout.
I think they poofed the IP addy this time. That would mean ripping everything out and starting all over....where's the value in that, Joe? :D


Is wireless coax a new thing? With how sensitive things are already, I can't imagine there's any dedicated frequency that won't encounter obstructions and interference.

How long before the recent Madden/Porn issue shows up on some kids bedroom TV?

Is wireless coax a new thing? With how sensitive things are already, I can't imagine there's any dedicated frequency that won't encounter obstructions and interference.
I wonder if the salesman was thinking of something like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812203025) ? They work, but not over much distance and they can kill a WiFi network.

Anyone know of silver sensor retailers with available units in town? I don't want to wait for online delivery.
Thanks

Looks like CC has a version of the Silver Sensor.



Philips Indoor HDTV Antenna (PHDTV1)

But out of stock right now.

Brentwood
Approx: 2 miles

1585 South Brentwood Boulevard, Brentwood, MO 63144
Details & directions

Not currently available

South County
Approx: 5 miles

6926 South Lindbergh Boulevard, Saint Louis, MO 63125
Details & directions

Out of stock
Notify me when available

Gravois Bluff
Approx: 7 miles

691 Gravois Bluff Boulevard, Fenton, MO 63026
Details & directions

Out of stock
Notify me when available

Brent

I just picked one up today at BB.It was a snap to put in and I am only using the hd for the TV.I am suprised at how good stations come in with only a zenith silver sensor I do get some break ups but not too bad considering I am close to the airport in st.Ann.Now just to put a outside antenna up.Sears used to have the zenith silver sensor but I dont know if they still carry it.I give the ati a thumbs up.

I'm getting breakup on OTA channel 11 on the 622, but not my MyHD cards. Signal level reads in the 90's. This started a few weeks ago. Others have reported the same thing a while back in this thread. I'm not an AT&T sub, though. Other OTA stations seem pretty much OK, except I still get too many dropouts on Fox. Not as bad as it used to be, and I think this is a local Fox issue, not Dish.

Are any people with the 622 receiving channel 11-1 without breakups?

Are any people with the 622 receiving channel 11-1 without breakups?
I've never received 11.1 without breakups, either using the 622 tuner, the 211, and before that, the 811 and 942.

Joe,
I spent a few days comparing the OTA on the 211. Results are the same as the 622. ATS tells me the OTA tuner in the 211 and 622 are the same. I have no way of verifying that...perhaps you know?

I remain of the opinion the issue is mostly related to the lack of standardization, and will eventually (but slowly) correct itself once networks, locals, providers, tuners, etc., are all on the same page. Growing pains.

Are any people with the 622 receiving channel 11-1 without breakups?

I used to have zero problems with the 622. Lately, it's unwatchable. If everyone is having this issue, then maybe Dish made some changes that caused it.

I used to have zero problems with the 622. Lately, it's unwatchable. If everyone is having this issue, then maybe Dish made some changes that caused it.
May very well be. One day, it will get discovered and fixed, and we'll probably never know. :)

Looks like CC has a version of the Silver Sensor.



Philips Indoor HDTV Antenna (PHDTV1)

But out of stock right now.

Brentwood
Approx: 2 miles

1585 South Brentwood Boulevard, Brentwood, MO 63144
Details & directions

Not currently available

South County
Approx: 5 miles

6926 South Lindbergh Boulevard, Saint Louis, MO 63125
Details & directions

Out of stock
Notify me when available

Gravois Bluff
Approx: 7 miles

691 Gravois Bluff Boulevard, Fenton, MO 63026
Details & directions

Out of stock
Notify me when available

Brent

Thanks! My search yielded similar findings
It might be best to order online after all

May very well be. One day, it will get discovered and fixed, and we'll probably never know. :)

As I said, the MyHD card in my computer doesn't seem to have a problem with ch.11. That's what makes me suspect Dish. Of course, ch. 11 could have made some changes that the 622 doesn't like.

Thanks! My search yielded similar findings
It might be best to order online after all
According to their website, the St. Louis Mills Circuit City apparently has them in stock.

Are you having any problems with multipath?

None whatsoever.

Well the good news is, we don't have to blame our provider, we can blame KTVI. I just don't know who
to contact over there. WRACER, do you or Tom have any ideas?

I think Doug has it correct in the contact list. BTW was trying to use the Forum as a conduit to my staff while on the road...thats who "Tom" is!
Jim

Just messing with you Jim. I, along with other, appreciate your help and proactiveness.

As for a contact person, I just didn't know if you actually converse with other local engineers.

It's not quite as crazy as it sounds. If KDNL makes some changes in their transmission, your tuner may start behaving itself. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, that's what happened some time ago. People were having issues and changes that KDNL made resolved the image stuttering. Jim can correct me if I'm wrong. If it's a hardware problem with your tuner, waiting sure won't help. My problems could be related to something completely different than yours. I don't know what your image problem looks like, or if it's like the one I've been having.

That doesn't help, does it?

Again, can you tell us, Jim, if KDNL has made any changes lately that would cause the old problems to recur?

We have made no changes other than some updated software on the HD switcher, which would have no effect to the data stream. None of our receivers or test equipment have shown the studdering.
Jim

We have made no changes other than some updated software on the HD switcher, which would have no effect to the data stream. None of our receivers or test equipment have shown the studdering.
Jim

Thanks, Jim. It may be an intermittent problem with my 622.

We have made no changes other than some updated software on the HD switcher, which would have no effect to the data stream. None of our receivers or test equipment have shown the studdering.
Jim

You're welcome to stop by any evening you're in town and there is HD programming. I'm in mid St.Louis County near Page & I-170.

I used to have zero problems with the 622. Lately, it's unwatchable. If everyone is having this issue, then maybe Dish made some changes that caused it.


Yes, i am having the same problem with all my local HD with the 622.

Thanks!! Bought it and will pick it up today.

DirecTV CTO Says PQ Criticism Unwarranted but MPEG-4 Better

Interesting bit of tap dancing here -- the CTO says that picture quality is not a problem, but then says MPEG-4 will be better. Is this not somewhat contradictory?

The following story is from today's TV Predictions newsletter:
______________________________________________________

Rômulo Pontual, DIRECTV's chief technology officer, says criticism about the satcaster's HDTV picture quality is unwarranted.

The satcaster's high-def picture has been the subject of vigorous debate on Internet message boards, with some posters saying DIRECTV purposely reduces the quality of the signal to make room for more channels.

One DIRECTV subscriber, a California attorney, has even sued the satcaster saying it has misrepresented its HD picture resolution; the case is pending.

But in an interview with Engadget HD, the technology web site, Pontual said DIRECTV invests heavily "to optimize our transmission (and what) we have today is the configuration that is the best video quality for the consumer."

Pressed for details, Pontual said the transmission method is "a trade secret (but) consumers should judge by the video quality. Put the screens side by side and look at the quality."

The Engadget interviewer noted that some DIRECTV subscribers have charged that the satcaster uses a lower "bit rate" than other TV providers. Bit rate is one method to measure the transmission rate -- and resolution -- of a high-def picture.

But Pontual said bit rate is "not a good measure."

He added that DIRECTV's picture quality will improve even more when it switches entirely to the MPEG4 compression system later this year. As of now, DIRECTV is using MPEG4 for local HDTV channels and the older standard MPEG2 for national HD networks.

"MPEG4 will be a leap better in in terms of quality," he told the web site.
______________________________________________________

Adult Film Honcho Says Sony Kicked Him to HD DVD Curb

From today's TV Predictions newsletter:
_______________________________________________________

Joone, the founder of the adult film studio Digital Playground, says he will release his movies in the HD-DVD high-def disc format.

The decision is a reversal for the porn firm which said last year that it would support Sony's Blu-ray in the high-def DVD format war.

However, Joone tells Heise Online, the web site for the German magazine Heise, that "Sony wants me to publish my films on HD-DVD."

He said all Blu-ray DVD copying facilities refused to cooperate with him in recording his films on Blu-ray discs. The adult executive hinted that Sony was not interested in seeing adult movies on Blu-ray.

The executive said he was disappointed by the response because he wanted to reach young male owners of the Play Station 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside.

The remarks are puzzling, considering the Vivid Entertainment, an adult studio rival, is planning to release its first film on Blu-ray this spring.

However, Joone said he will release four HD-DVD titles between now and the first week of February, including Island Fever 3, Pirates, Teen America and Island Fever 4.

Joone added that he hopes to launch four new titles each month.
_______________________________________________________

NBC Universal to Launch HD Channel for Horror Niche

From today's TV Predictions Newsletter:
_________________________________________________________

NBC Universal has announced that it's launching a High-Definition horror channel called Chiller.

The network, which will be available in standard and high definition, will launch on March 1. NBC officials say DIRECTV has agreed to carry the channel, although it's unclear when the high-def feed will be added to the satcaster's lineup.
_________________________________________________________

Sinclair "Going All In" By Yanking Both HD and SD Feeds?

From today's TV Predictions newsletter:
_________________________________________________

Sinclair Broadcast Group, which owns 58 local stations in 36 markets, is threatening to prevent cable operators from carrying their standard and High-Definition TV channels.

By law, a cable operator must get permission from the local station to carry its feed. However, Sinclair is demanding that cable operators pay compensation for the right to carry the SD and HD feeds.

Late last night, a Time Warner spokeswoman said it expects to reach agreement to carry the Sinclair feeds in a handful of markets, including Ohio and central New York.

But in many markets, cable operators are refusing to pay so Sinclair last week blocked 22 stations from airing on cable systems in 13 states. Consequently, nearly one million viewers were unable to watch last weekend's NFL playoff games and primetime network programming in SD or HD.

The controversy is boiling over in some areas and the Iowa State Legislature has urged Sinclair to enter arbitration with Mediacom, which serves about 250,000 cable subscribers in Iowa. The Federal Communications Commission's Media Bureau has endorsed the request, although it has not ordered Sinclair to comply.

Sinclair yesterday refused the legislature's request.

"I hope you can understand Sinclair's reluctance to agree to such an unusual approach to resolve what is essentially a disagreement on price in a commercial negotiation," said Sinclair President and Chief Executive Officer David Smith.

Mediacom says Sinclair is asking for too much money and should agree to the arbitration.

LIN TV and other independently owned stations across the country are also denying cable operators to carry their high-def feeds, saying they should be compensated. The cable operators say the channels should be free because they are available for free via off-air antennas.
_________________________________________________

Sinclair pulling the SD feed would be agood thing for us HD viewers since it would more than likely force Charter to do some serious negotiating.......something that probably hasn't happened in a long time

-Phatty

Sinclair pulling the SD feed would be agood thing for us HD viewers since it would more than likely force Charter to do some serious negotiating.......something that probably hasn't happened in a long time

-Phatty

I agree with that

Sinclair pulling the SD feed would be agood thing for us HD viewers since it would more than likely force Charter to do some serious negotiating.......something that probably hasn't happened in a long time

-Phatty

I would think the networks would start putting pressure on both Sinclair and the affilates. I can't imagine ABC, CBS, NBC or FOX would be happy about their programming having no outlet whatsoever on a cable provider's system in certain markets.

I would think the networks would start putting pressure on both Sinclair and the affilates. I can't imagine ABC, CBS, NBC or FOX would be happy about their programming having no outlet whatsoever on a cable provider's system in certain markets.


CBS O&O's plan on going after cash from cable when their contracts are up in 2009/2010. They may have to end up pulling their stations as well to make a point.

It will be hard to justify charging for ads if noone who has cable can see them

Most have probably read, SlingBox introduced the ability to push streams both ways now, either to PC>TV, or to TV>PC.

Can someone elaborate on how that differs from the new Apple TV?

I have charter and lost HD-KMOV with the whole Belo mess. So I went and got a silver sensor while I decide what I am gonna do longterm. I live ~5mi from a tower, on a hill, and connect in a walkout basement. All I can say is....WOW! So this is what OTA-HD is all about? Very nice!

I have charter and lost HD-KMOV with the whole Belo mess. So I went and got a silver sensor while I decide what I am gonna do longterm. I live ~5mi from a tower, on a hill, and connect in a walkout basement. All I can say is....WOW! So this is what OTA-HD is all about? Very nice!

Pretty isn't it?

I have charter and lost HD-KMOV with the whole Belo mess. So I went and got a silver sensor while I decide what I am gonna do longterm. I live ~5mi from a tower, on a hill, and connect in a walkout basement. All I can say is....WOW! So this is what OTA-HD is all about? Very nice!Funny thing is, if cable companies weren't so damn proprietary about this sort of thing and they had included an OTA tuner in all their HD boxes, nobody would have lost anything, the cable companies would have considerably more negotiating leverage, and there'd be a lot more customers saying"WOW!" instead of "$*%@#&!"

Funny thing is, if cable companies weren't so damn proprietary about this sort of thing and they had included an OTA tuner in all their HD boxes, nobody would have lost anything, the cable companies would have considerably more negotiating leverage, and there'd be a lot more customers saying"WOW!" instead of "$*%@#&!"


Great point Doug. I hadn't thought of it that way. I had thought "oh well" when Dish didn't have SAT HD Locals up in our area yet, because I had the OTA tuner in my receiver. Then when they did add them, it was like wow, now I can record so much more, but can I stay awake enough to watch it :).

I think it is not just negotiating power, but if all the cable HD boxes had OTA tuners, then the cable company could almost look at the locally owned station and say "OK, you pull the plug, our subscribers will watch OTA for free and we will help subsidize the cost of an antenna."

I already posted over in the Samsung thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9444085&&#post9444085

But thought I would share my latest happening with my TV with you guys. Just had a Samsung authorized tech come out to repair my OTA Tuner problems in my TV and in doing so the guy did a factory reset on my TV clearing all my calibrated settings. I did specifically ask him before hand if this would ruin my calibrated TV and he said without hesitation that it would not. The only reason he wanted to do the reset(because everything else was appearing good) is because of an 'aging' message popping up on the screen. A message I have seen many times before when exiting the service menu from when my set was calibrated. So I know it doesn't take a factory reset to clear that message like this tech thought.

I am now out the investment on the calibration and am awaiting a response from the company that did the repair. Not really sure how to react but my tummy has been turning ever since and have felt sick to my stomach the moment I noticed the picture quality wasn't what it was before. I could have delt with a broken tuner if it meant not loosing my calibration, or would have been happy to assist the tech in removing that message if he had any hesitation in what he was doing but instead im left with a dull looking picture.

-Phatty

Funny thing is, if cable companies weren't so damn proprietary about this sort of thing and they had included an OTA tuner in all their HD boxes, nobody would have lost anything, the cable companies would have considerably more negotiating leverage, and there'd be a lot more customers saying"WOW!" instead of "$*%@#&!"


I was thinking the same thing myself just maybe some new boxes might happen in the future.

Phatty,

I'm sorry to hear about the problem with your repair -- I can definitely appreciate your anger and I definitely sympathize with you.

I know this is going to sound like an advertisement, and in no way is this meant as a putdown for hiring Eliab (by all reports, he's superb), but this is one of the reasons it is a good idea to try to hire a local calibrator when that's feasible.

In fact, I offer a form of "calibration insurance" that protects my customers from just this sort of event -- if you have a service problem that compromises your calibration (or requires replacement) of your TV within 6 months of the calibration date, I'll recalibrate your TV for just 20% of the original fee.

Granted, that's not insurance in the strictest form of the term, but in a way it's better -- you only pay the premium if it turns out you need the coverage (try getting that from the gecko). FWIW, I do require documentation from the service company (or your retailer if it's a matter of replacement).

I'd be happy to try to work something out with you in the event that eliab isn't due to head this way anytime soon. You really should press your point aggressively with the service company, since it sounds like you were very explicit with them about the fact that you wanted to ensure the calibration was preserved.

Let me know how this goes.

Phatty,

I'm sorry to hear about the problem with your repair -- I can definitely appreciate your anger and I definitely sympathize with you.

I know this is going to sound like an advertisement, and in no way is this meant as a putdown for hiring Eliab (by all reports, he's superb), but this is one of the reasons it is a good idea to try to hire a local calibrator when that's feasible.

In fact, I offer a form of "calibration insurance" that protects my customers from just this sort of event -- if you have a service problem that compromises your calibration (or requires replacement) of your TV within 6 months of the calibration date, I'll recalibrate your TV for just 20% of the original fee.

Granted, that's not insurance in the strictest form of the term, but in a way it's better -- you only pay the premium if it turns out you need the coverage (try getting that from the gecko). FWIW, I do require documentation from the service company (or your retailer if it's a matter of replacement).

I'd be happy to try to work something out with you in the event that eliab isn't due to head this way anytime soon. You really should press your point aggressively with the service company, since it sounds like you were very explicit with them about the fact that you wanted to ensure the calibration was preserved.

Let me know how this goes.


Yeah thanks I'll contact you if need be.. Eliab has actually offered to come out again at more than half off his original fee and per his web site he should be in the area in the near future... I have to admit that when I decided on a calibrator I ended up pretty much tossing a coin between going with you , a local guy vs Eliab a traveling guy for reasons just like this. The only difference being Eliab has gone on nation wide tours dedicated to my model TV so that is why I ended up siding with him. Even if Eliab can help me out at fair price I am still stuck dealing with his schedules and have no way of knowing exactly when he will be in the area next... I am still waiting a call back from the service manager and am hoping I can get him to pay the discounted fee to get Eliab back out... I do have some photos of my service menu settings but I have no clue if I am missing submenus of things, or if I missed something by only taking photos of settings when under HDMI vs Component or whatever.

-Phatty

I had a chance to get in a phone conversation with Eliab and I have to say I am feeling much better. He has confirmed that the photos I took should cover everything EXCEPT one of the sub menus that has settings specific to each input on the TV. Luckily when I took the photos I was on HDMI so that my most important content should be setup back where it was before today... My other inputs may take some additional tweaking but Eliab felt confident he would be able to help me out over the phone.


As far as the service company goes they are taking 2 angles in there defense. The first excuse he gave was that the settings were saved to the board that got replaced. Could be right, but then I would have thought/hoped the tech would have said something during his visit when I mentioned calibration.

The 2nd defense they are using is that once the part is replaced the system auto does a system reset. Yet he also stated it is required to do one to get things working so really 2 things under 1 excuse were given to me.... This may have been the case, all I know is I watched the tech manually do one as well AFTER we tested the new inputs and all was appearing fine before he manually did the reset except for the one service menu display of 'aging' on the screen.


Eliab felt confident that switching the board should not have forced a reset and the excuses given by the company just seemed like they were trying to layer on the excuses to avoid taking responsibility. No matter what they ignored my concerns of a calibrated display but knowing I have at least the HDMI port data backed up makes me feel loads better. I am not sure if I am going to push things any further with the service company only because I have no way of truely confirming/denying the excuses they are giving.

-A slightly happier, Phatty

Phatty,

I agree with Eliab -- the service company almost certainly is blowing smoke at you about the board and the need for a reset after replacement. While it's possible (after all, the EEPROM that contains the service data is located on ONE of the boards in the set), it sounds a little too convenient (for them) considering the number of circuit boards in there.

But I'm glad to hear that your photo backup is probably going to you back to your calibrated state.

I'll reply to your PM shortly, just so you have that information at hand, should you need it down the road.

NBC Universal to Launch HD Channel for Horror Niche

From today's TV Predictions Newsletter:
_________________________________________________________

NBC Universal has announced that it's launching a High-Definition horror channel called Chiller.

The network, which will be available in standard and high definition, will launch on March 1. NBC officials say DIRECTV has agreed to carry the channel, although it's unclear when the high-def feed will be added to the satcaster's lineup.
_________________________________________________________


Now THIS channel in MPEG-4 only, would get me to dump my HD Tivo and get the HR20!

Doug (or some other knowledgable person),

As a relatively new HDTV convert (July '06), all of this talk of calibration has somewhat gone over my head. What exactly does calibration involve? Are we talking using the menus to adjust settings, or does a calibrator actually open the TV and adjust the internal workings of the unit?

Also, based on your experience, what are the most common areas of improvement that cause your customers' jaws to drop (crispness, colors, etc.)?

Thanks.

Doug (or some other knowledgable person),
As a relatively new HDTV convert (July '06), all of this talk of calibration has somewhat gone over my head. What exactly does calibration involve? Are we talking using the menus to adjust settings, or does a calibrator actually open the TV and adjust the internal workings of the unit?
Also, based on your experience, what are the most common areas of improvement that cause your customers' jaws to drop (crispness, colors, etc.)?
Thanks.
While you're waiting to hear back from Doug...check out his Website FAQ's :)
http://clearlyresolved.com/faq_videoc.html

Funny thing is, if cable companies weren't so damn proprietary about this sort of thing and they had included an OTA tuner in all their HD boxes, nobody would have lost anything, the cable companies would have considerably more negotiating leverage, and there'd be a lot more customers saying"WOW!" instead of "$*%@#&!"

Wouldn't that be something ? An OTA tuner in a cable box. The only problem would be for the folks who couldn't erect an antenna to hook up to it.

Hey ... here's an idea ... What if the cable provider put up a big antenna, amplified the signal, then fed it to the OTA tuner via a separate cable ? They could call it "Community Antenna Television" or CATV for short.

Ironic, isn't it ? :D

Thanks Doug, but the OTA antenna is indoors and all my local HD channels (2.1 4,1, 30.1, etc.) are breaking up. It seems to be very sensitive to wind, such as a day like today in St. Louis. Is there anything I can do?

Maybe it's the transmission towers moving in the wind ?

With people jumping from Charter, and now this link, I guess Dish will be picking up mega-n00bs:

http://news.com.com/2100-1038_3-6150142.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-5&subj=news

Has anyone bought anything from Frys.com? Does anyone have a personal opinion? I know we had a small discussion about this sometime back.


I bought an ATX case and a 500 watt power supply both free with rebates. No problems at all....fast shipping and well packaged.

Great deal. Did you just get it or have you been using it for a while?


Just got it. Finally getting a chance to play with it. Do you use Titan TV and what software do you use to play the recorded files? I get great video but no audio playing them in WMP 10.

Thanks

If / When you have to call your provider for help, and they have crappy menu systems, here are some shortcuts:

http://gethuman.com/us/

Just got it. Finally getting a chance to play with it. Do you use Titan TV and what software do you use to play the recorded files? I get great video but no audio playing them in WMP 10.

Thanks

We're talking about MyHD, right? It has all the hardware and software necessary to play back the files on your computer. Playing back on your HDTV may require some more cabling. Yes, I use TitanTV to schedule recordings.

Anyone having problems picking up KSDK HD? 5-1 or 5-2? I Can pick up all the other local HD singnals....I wonder if the ice has messed up KSDK digital signal....

Anyone having problems picking up KSDK HD? 5-1 or 5-2? I Can pick up all the other local HD singnals....I wonder if the ice has messed up KSDK digital signal....

Coming in fine here in O'fallon.

Anyone having problems picking up KSDK HD? 5-1 or 5-2? I Can pick up all the other local HD singnals....I wonder if the ice has messed up KSDK digital signal....

I'm still having issues, but it's been going on longer than the ice. I'm going to see if my tv's tuner gets it any better. Maybe my tuners getting funky in the Tivo. I had 90% on one tuner and the other was fluctuating from 0-45 on Thursday, then I set it to the 90% tuner to get Earl and Office. When I got home, both were in the 0-45 range and my recordings were chopped up. Maybe if the tuner is bad I can convince D* to give me a free HR20 and I can move the tivo to the bedroom :)

Is anyone else having trouble picking up KMOV? I'm trying to watch the playoffs but can't
get the station to come in.

Is anyone else having trouble picking up KMOV? I'm trying to watch the playoffs but can't
get the station to come in.

Just like KSDK, I'm having no issues with KMOV today. Glad the Colts beat the Ravens. Now, if San Diego can win tomorrow, I will be one happy guy.

Scott

:mad: Here we go again...no power since this morning...third time in 6 months. :mad:

NBC Universal to Launch HD Channel for Horror Niche

From today's TV Predictions Newsletter:
_________________________________________________________

NBC Universal has announced that it's launching a High-Definition horror channel called Chiller.

The network, which will be available in standard and high definition, will launch on March 1. NBC officials say DIRECTV has agreed to carry the channel, although it's unclear when the high-def feed will be added to the satcaster's lineup.
_________________________________________________________



Now THIS channel in MPEG-4 only, would get me to dump my HD Tivo and get the HR20!

Amen to that Robert!

In fact, I would hope any HD channels added at this point should all be MPEG-4.

In fact, I would hope any HD channels added at this point should all be MPEG-4.I'm pretty sure that D* has stated previously that all new HD content would be MPEG4. Anyone with HD TIVOs has all the HD content they're ever going to get without switching to the new DVRs. For better or worse I've now made the jump and am just waiting for the install.

Dish Network VIP 622 DVR FYI

I had read a post on satelliteguys about a user getting a message from his 622 stating something to the effect of "Hard Drive Corrupted". Then it tells you, you must delete all recorded items. I had read when this happens you must do a soft reboot to avoid losing recorded programs.

Therefore I told my brother in law (sister's husband) about this because he also has a 622. Two days later he tells me he got the message and did a soft reboot and everything was fine. I found it very odd that it happened right after I read of it.

Fast forward to this weekend. My wife's family was in town staying with us. My other brother in law (wife's brother) was staying in our basement. He tells me this morning he got some message about "Hard Drive Corrupted" on my TV and the only choice he had was "OK" to delete recorded items and he hit it. First I couldn't believe he clicked it, because he has TIVO at home and I know he would try a lot of things before he deleted his shows. But he did select "OK", then I checked, all recorded shows were still there. I have since read on satelliteguys that some have clicked "OK" and not lost shows.

So I guess I have no solid info here other than this can occur. I don't have a definitive answer on the best course of action, but I did think it was worth noting for 622 owners.

Dish Network VIP 622 DVR FYI

I had read a post on satelliteguys about a user getting a message from his 622 stating something to the effect of "Hard Drive Corrupted". Then it tells you, you must delete all recorded items. I had read when this happens you must do a soft reboot to avoid losing recorded programs.

Therefore I told my brother in law (sister's husband) about this because he also has a 622. Two days later he tells me he got the message and did a soft reboot and everything was fine. I found it very odd that it happened right after I read of it.

Fast forward to this weekend. My wife's family was in town staying with us. My other brother in law (wife's brother) was staying in our basement. He tells me this morning he got some message about "Hard Drive Corrupted" on my TV and the only choice he had was "OK" to delete recorded items and he hit it. First I couldn't believe he clicked it, because he has TIVO at home and I know he would try a lot of things before he deleted his shows. But he did select "OK", then I checked, all recorded shows were still there. I have since read on satelliteguys that some have clicked "OK" and not lost shows.

So I guess I have no solid info here other than this can occur. I don't have a definitive answer on the best course of action, but I did think it was worth noting for 622 owners.
Deuces,
That's a 622 bug that's been around since the beginning. It is triggered after the nightly update, during the verification process of the HDD FAT, the software sees some updated files that should have been auto-removed by an update process, which triggers the corrupt message. It's an erroneous message, and nothing happens, and nothing is deleted, as you found out.

Clicking OK just clears the message, or restarting the receiver runs another HDD FAT verification, and deletes the file(s) that were triggering the corrupt message, which also clears it.

If there was a true corruption, when you click the OK, the system is supposed to rebuild the drive (recover the last good system image) and it would delete all recording-type files, user setting-type files, etc.,....restoring back to the factory system defaults. If that happens, it needs to be exchanged, because it's going to happen again.

So if one would restart at that point some files could be deleted? Are you saying the correct procedure is to click OK rather than restart?

I've heard on the grapevine that Charter is fasing out the MOXI and replacing it with this DVR from Motorola.

Motorola (http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp)

There are supposed to be two models. One for markets that haven't gone all digital, for digital box subs, and one for markets that have gone digital for digital box customers (St Louis & Madison, Wisc)

And yes they are available. Just ask, hopefully you get a knowlegable rep.

Unfortunatly I have't had first hand experience with the new DVR, but it's hard drive is larger than the MOXI, plus unlike the MOXI, the new one has slow mo, and a replay feature like TIVO.

It uses TV Guide I Guide (http://www.i-guide.tv/A23/index.html)

Hope the Charter bashing lets down soon because of the Belo issue, but we are all human.

Wolverine5767

Howdy Wolvie!

I talked to a Charter rep tonight about the cost increase for swapping my digital cable box with an HD box for my other HDTV. As always, I ask them whether they have upgraded DVRs in yet. To my surprise I got a yes, and apparently only for St. Louis. This guy reiterated what you said, with a few differences. First, it would appear that Moxi really is being dumped. He wasn't sure why, but whatever is in the new DVR is not Moxi, and he mentioned something about the TV guide system, so I'm sure you are right-on with the i-Guide. Secondly, the hard drive is not 120gb, which I have heard a lot of people say, it is 180gb, which is 100gb over most of us first-run Moxi users. Finally (and arguably my favorite thing), there is an HDMI out from the Motorola box. WOO HOO! I can finally ditch this DVI-to-HDMI crap, and free up some more audio cables. The bigger hard drive is going to be nice, too. I can finally go back to recording HD again.

I am 100% with you on the Charter bashing. It's silly, and it gets old. Unfortunately it's one of the things that has more or less chased me from this site. Lots of great people here, and extremely helpful, but having to wade through the incessant hate posts just wears you down.

/slinks back to the trolling shadows. :-P

So if one would restart at that point some files could be deleted? Are you saying the correct procedure is to click OK rather than restart?
Nope....it doesn't matter. Clicking OK just closes the pop up message....nothing else happens.

If you do a restart, that cures the cause of the erroneous "drive corrupt" message, so it doesn't pop up again after the restart. The files that are deleted, are some of the old, no-longer-needed files that were just updated, and should have been deleted during the last update, which are the same files triggering the erroneous "drive corrupt" message.
Files...as in system files...not files, as in recording files.

If you just click OK, the pop up closes, and then after the next nightly update, the system restarts, which then cures the cause.

If the update had removed all the old, no longer needed files, the message never would have come up. It's something that happens, from time-to-time with updates.

Recently, when Windows forced out their IE 7 update, many systems found a MSIEEXE.txt file left in their My Documents folder. It was a text file documenting the update, which the update should have removed upon completion. On some configurations, the removal was skipped by the update, and had to be manually removed. IMO, MS may have rushed out their IE 7 to coincide with FireFox's 2.0 release.

Sometimes, not all foreseeable scenarios can be covered...same thing that happens in this issue with the 622.

Howdy Wolvie!

I talked to a Charter rep tonight about the cost increase for swapping my digital cable box with an HD box for my other HDTV. As always, I ask them whether they have upgraded DVRs in yet. To my surprise I got a yes, and apparently only for St. Louis. This guy reiterated what you said, with a few differences. First, it would appear that Moxi really is being dumped. He wasn't sure why, but whatever is in the new DVR is not Moxi, and he mentioned something about the TV guide system, so I'm sure you are right-on with the i-Guide. Secondly, the hard drive is not 120gb, which I have heard a lot of people say, it is 180gb, which is 100gb over most of us first-run Moxi users. Finally (and arguably my favorite thing), there is an HDMI out from the Motorola box. WOO HOO! I can finally ditch this DVI-to-HDMI crap, and free up some more audio cables. The bigger hard drive is going to be nice, too. I can finally go back to recording HD again.

I am 100% with you on the Charter bashing. It's silly, and it gets old. Unfortunately it's one of the things that has more or less chased me from this site. Lots of great people here, and extremely helpful, but having to wade through the incessant hate posts just wears you down.

/slinks back to the trolling shadows. :-P

You should also be aware that the 6412 has firewire out. It is the same box that people are recording to their computers recorded programs from the box. I want.

Walt

You should also be aware that the 6412 has firewire out. It is the same box that people are recording to their computers recorded programs from the box. I want.

Walt

So does the Moxi ... and I do that from the Moxi.

Anyone notice KMOV-HD is off the air? I can't get it via OTA or DirecTV.

EDIT: 12:55pm, now it is on. Weird.

I'm not getting KPLR-DT though.

I've got a good signal on it.

Edit: KPLR is out OTA but on via Cable

Doug (or some other knowledgable person),

As a relatively new HDTV convert (July '06), all of this talk of calibration has somewhat gone over my head. What exactly does calibration involve? Are we talking using the menus to adjust settings, or does a calibrator actually open the TV and adjust the internal workings of the unit?

Also, based on your experience, what are the most common areas of improvement that cause your customers' jaws to drop (crispness, colors, etc.)?

Thanks.mgr_stl,

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to respond sooner, but I haven't been in the office much the past couple of days. I'll try to keep this basic and focus on the specific questions you've asked.

* The basic goal of video calibration is to produce as accurate an image as possible. TVs are not set up at the factory with accuracy as a goal -- the goal is to attract your attention by being as bright as possible and to look different from what the competition is selling. Although most consumers are unaware, there are standards for how a TV should process and display a video signal, and if these standards were applied, all TVs would produce the more or less the same picture quality -- same relative brightness, same fleshtones/color, etc.

Instead, manufacturers manipulate the user menu and service settings to produce an image that is more focused on being "bright and jazzy," rather than providing accuracy. This is the main reason that all of the TVs on a retail showroom floor look so different -- if everything looked the same, the consumer decision would more often than not be decided solely by price.

* Exactly what is involved in calibration will vary somewhat according to the technology of the television, the type and number of video sources it is displaying and the range of settings that are available for adjustment. But, in general, calibration will typically include:

-- cleaning of lenses and mirror (where relevant);
-- optimizing picture focus;
-- correctly setting black level and the peak light level;
-- adjustment of picture geometry (size, position, shape);
-- adjustment of picture convergence (where relevant, this ensures that the red, green and blue images line up correctly);
-- calibrating grayscale to the D6500 industry standard;
-- optimizing picture gamma (gamma is a way of expressing the rate at which the display transitions from video black to reference white);
-- setting correct color balance (color/saturation and tint/hue);
-- realigning the color decoder (where accessible) so that the relative balance between red, green and blue is correct;
-- minimizing or eliminating edge-outlining enhancements that are designed to give the appearance of a "sharper" image but, in fact, actually cover up picture detail.

In addition, a growing number of consumer displays provide color management controls that allow direct calibration of the primary (red, green and blue) and secondary (cyan, yellow, magenta) colors. Again, like all other aspects of a video signal, there are very specific standards for these colors and these should be adjusted to the standards, where that's possible.

One other byproduct of calibration is performing a "sanity check" on how connections are made between sources and the display. A good example of where this comes in happened yesterday, when the customer's MOXI box was set for 480i-only output, meaning the customer had been unaware that for more than 6 months that he wasn't seeing real HDTV. The same customer was also told by the installer that it wasn't possible to send the audio from MOXI to his surround sound system. Both of these shortcomings took only a few minutes to fix, but they make a major difference in the viewing experience. Obviously this sort of "sanity check" isn't a big benefit for generally knowledgeable viewers, but these sort of configuration errors turn up more regularly than I ever would have expected.

* The adjustments that a calibrator makes are typically done through both the user menus and the service menus. Adjustments in the service menu require access to the various menus available on each display and the knowledge of how to make use of the available controls, which generally aren't labeled in any sort of straightforward way.

* As I stated at the top, the end result of calibration is a more accurate picture. Customers seem to appreciate this in two primary ways.

-- First, because color (grayscale, color balance, color decoding) is more accurate they often comment that the picture is more "realistic."

-- Second, because black level and peak light output have been set correctly and edge enhancement has been dialed down, they find the resulting picture to be "smoother" or "more film-like." In fact, most of what we watch on television originates on film, but gets jazzed up by the factory settings of our TVs to have an edgy, video-like look.

Again, the goal of calibration is to produce only what is contained in the video signal and to do that in compliance with agreed standards -- so filmed material should look like film and video-acquired programming should look like video. And the colors displayed should conform to agreed standards.

Is anyone else getting numerous blips of pixellization during the Bears-Seahawks game on Fox? I will get a blip accompanied by a split second skip in sound. I am trying to determine if anyone else is seeing it or if it is a result of me splitting the signal coming from my OTA antenna to a 2nd receiver recently. Thanks in advance for any input.

Edit: Come to think of it, it looks like what everyone was talking about on House a few days ago. So hopefully I am not the only one getting it today. Thanks.

Is anyone having problems with KMOV OTA? All my other locals have decent signal levels. The basketball game came through earlier just fine. I am not getting anything for the football game.

Is anyone having problems with KMOV OTA? All my other locals have decent signal levels. The basketball game came through earlier just fine. I am not getting anything for the football game.


MIne is working fine in Belleville.

Just to clarify I'm not getting any signal for KMOV HD over the air on 4-1. Seems strange that the other HD locals have good signal.

Just to clarify I'm not getting any signal for KMOV HD over the air on 4-1. Seems strange that the other HD locals have good signal.


Yes, KMOV 4-1.... I.m getting solid signal OTA with my Terk HDTVi indoor antenna..... getting a consistant Dolby Digital signal too, which sometimes drops for me in Bellevilel, Ill

Just to clarify I'm not getting any signal for KMOV HD over the air on 4-1. Seems strange that the other HD locals have good signal.I'm watching 4-1 OTA now and have been since the game started. No problems, no dropouts, no pixelation.

Thanks guys.

KMOV-HD Broadcast:

Does anyone know why the when KMOV runs weather updates, they need to change the resolution? I know its important information, but its a little annoying. Can't they just run text at the bottom of the screen, without changing the resolution?

Just curious, THANKS!

Indoor HDTV antenna:

On my fifth try I finally found an antenna that locks in KMOV OTA. Watching the Pats in beeeeyoutiful HD. It's an RCA ANT501, with up to 30 db amplification, from BB. Haven't tried it yet for KDNL/ABC, but I'm encouraged.

Moto 6412

If Charter is switching to this box, note that we're gonna lose a lot of flexiblity compared to the Moxi. The 6412 is a two-tuner box, but the Web site says you can record 2 shows at a time or rec 1/watch 1. With the Moxi you can record 2/watch 1.

barry

I watched/watching both games on OTA, KTVI and KMOV....some portions live, some delayed/buffered, some from playback. No issues here with either. Also, just rain here all weekend, it's stayed around 38°, so no ice like many areas have.

Is anyone else getting numerous blips of pixellization during the Bears-Seahawks game on Fox? I will get a blip accompanied by a split second skip in sound. I am trying to determine if anyone else is seeing it or if it is a result of me splitting the signal coming from my OTA antenna to a 2nd receiver recently. Thanks in advance for any input.

Edit: Come to think of it, it looks like what everyone was talking about on House a few days ago. So hopefully I am not the only one getting it today. Thanks.

Yes. Very similar to what I reported with House. I guess we'll have to live with this when 24 starts this evening. I believe we've narrowed it down to a KTVI issue, but I assume they are unaware or just don't care as this has been common for more than a year.

So does the Moxi ... and I do that from the Moxi.

I wish you had said something when I asked. Everyone here told me it couldn't be done. I went to great lengths to get to a Moxi to try it only to find out that the Moxi I had access to did not have a firewire port.

I checked the signal strenght for KMOV on the MyHD card periodically during the Bears game. Each time it was in the neighborhood of 70. Now during the game it is bouncing from 40 to 0? You don't think that Belo is cutting power do you. Do you think this would be below Belo?

Walt

Indoor HDTV antenna:

On my fifth try I finally found an antenna that locks in KMOV OTA. Watching the Pats in beeeeyoutiful HD. It's an RCA ANT501, with up to 30 db amplification, from BB. Haven't tried it yet for KDNL/ABC, but I'm encouraged.

Moto 6412

If Charter is switching to this box, note that we're gonna lose a lot of flexiblity compared to the Moxi. The 6412 is a two-tuner box, but the Web site says you can record 2 shows at a time or rec 1/watch 1. With the Moxi you can record 2/watch 1.

barry

Hmmm. If you meant record 2 and watch a third, not with my Moxi. I can record 2, but have to watch either one of those or a previously recorded program, not a third live program.

Hmmm. If you meant record 2 and watch a third, not with my Moxi. I can record 2, but have to watch either one of those or a previously recorded program, not a third live program.


That's correct, guess I wasn't clear: Moxi can record 2 and watch 1 previously recorded.

Hmmm. If you meant record 2 and watch a third, not with my Moxi. I can record 2, but have to watch either one of those or a previously recorded program, not a third live program.

No, I meant that you can record a previously recorded program to you computer via firewire.

I think San Diego has all the dumb football players in the league with all these personal fouls. Can you believe an idiot intercepts a 4th down pass..........

Walt

No, I meant that you can record a previously recorded program to you computer via firewire.

I think San Diego has all the dumb football players in the league with all these personal fouls. Can you believe an idiot intercepts a 4th down pass..........

Walt

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will never be the same. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Scott

um .... GO PATRIOTS :D :D :D

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will never be the same. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Scott

Sorry, Scott. I was rooting for San Diego today. Don't make us read about you in the paper tomorrow. :eek:

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will never be the same. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Scott


GO EAGLES!!! errrrr..... GO SEAHAWKS!! uhhhhh...... GO CHARGERS!!!

I would root for Indy next weekend, but I think I may be the HEX!!! Oh well us Eagles fans are used to looking forward to next year!


john

Go Blues!

Hello, all. This is my first post, and I want to take a moment to say thank you to all of you for your valuable information. I've been trolling these forums since Thanksgiving, when I used the input to take the plunge on a new Westy 47" 1080p and I'm very happy with it.

I've been following this thread in particular the last few weeks trying to better understand why Charter doesn't have ABC HD or NFL network. Charter's unilateral decision to drop CBS HD was the last straw for me and based primarily on information you all have posted, I'm having Directv installed next Friday and saying goodbye to Charter (the cable anyway...I'm keeping phone and Internet). I was close to going Dish, but couldn't stand the thought of being without NFL Sunday Ticket next year.

I'm somewhat comforted by Directv's announcements about the new satellites launching this year and the increasing HD capacity. Anyway, while I understand the business arguments behind Charter's decision and am more upset with Sinclair then anyone, I believe Charter should give the consumers the choice to purchase the HD channels, rather than simply removing them based on their own corporate principles. If this forum is anywhere close to a reflection of Charter's overall market, many consumers are voting with their purchasing power and Charter will experience what happens when a corporation fails to listen to the voice of its consumers. I would think that Charter would have run the numbers to know how many customers they'd have to lose before their decision turned into an economic loss and I have a feeling they may have vastly underestimated the consumers' willingness to make a change.

It shows you how upset I am that I'm making the change despite the alarming level of negative feedback Directv's new HR20 HD DVR has received, but I'm willing to take my chances. There's no way I'm not having the Super Bowl in HD on my new TV.

Just wanted to chime in with my situation and say thanks again!

Vinnie in UCity

Welcome, Vinnie.

Losing CBS on the eve of the Super Bowl could not have been worse timing for Charter. Don't think for a second that Belo didn't consider that. I think you'll be very happy with satellite. I'm a Dish sub, but I don't need NFL Sunday Ticket. I'm just a fair weather Rams fan.

Speaking of football, the game on CBS today had really bad picture quality. There was blocking everywhere, and I don't mean on the field. CBS has joined NBC in their quest to destroy HD. The satellite providers are taking away image quality by lowering resolution and shaving bits, and the formerly solid quality of our local broadcasts is now bit starved, too. Very, very sad.

LG Combo HD Disc Player May Not Earn DVD Forum OK

The following excerpt was found at the tail end of a CES wrap-up story on HD DVD and Blu-ray, via the TV Predictions web site:
___________________________________________________________

Many observers were waiting for a combo player, and I had predicted that LG might announce or show one (50/50 chance). They did. Their new combo player is priced at $1199 and will ship soon.

Oddly, it appears to be a full-fledged Blu-ray player, but does not include any of the interactive features of HD DVD, only playing the HD DVD movies. This lack of compliance with the HD DVD specification has created a problem with the DVD Forum, which licenses HD DVD. It is not clear what will happen.
___________________________________________________________

To read the full wrap-up story, click here (http://www.tvpredictions.com/smith011407.htm)

FYI -- TV Predictions has a "HD winners" and "HD losers" CES post-mortem:

Winners: http://www.tvpredictions.com/ceswinlose011507.htm

Losers: http://www.tvpredictions.com/ceslose011507.htm

So, we were thinking of going dish after the 1st due to charter's ineptitude, but I just realized that although we're at the top of a hill, I have three large gumball trees that line my house to the south. Is there any other direction the dish can point, or does it have to be south? And at what angle does it have to be, and how large a gap between trees does it need? We may be out of luck and have to buy an HD tuner for OTA broadcasts (of which we don't have enough inputs for...).

Black-Macleod, Did I read your post correctly? Are you moving content off your Moxi onto your computer via firewire? HD content? This is the first I'm hearing about this and would like to do that very much. Any details would be appreciated. -Kirk-

does it have to be south? And at what angle does it have to be, and how large a gap between trees does it need?
Pretty close to south. The birds are scattered in an arc above the equator, so you will probably wind up a little bit west of south. If you have a clear shot about 45 degrees above the horizon (even after the trees grow<G>), you should be OK.

Others here will have exact alignment data, and I defer to them on the exact numbers.

Jack Bauer was awfully chipper for a guy who's been tortured in a Chinese prison for the last two years, and then tortured some more by the new terrorist villain for this season... that was a bit of a stretch. But looks like 24 is off to another rolickin' start! Awesome season premiere!

Well, I now have my D* install to replace my two D* HD TIVOs with the newer MPEG4 HD DVRs on Feb. 1. I had more hangs/reboots and missed Season Pass recordings this weekend. I've now taken to scheduling everything manually until I have the new STBs.

Bring on SciFi HD and Speed HD.

Well, I now have my D* install to replace my two D* HD TIVOs with the newer MPEG4 HD DVRs on Feb. 1. I had more hangs/reboots and missed Season Pass recordings this weekend.

I had similar problems this weekend and the audio droputs on Fox were horrible.
I had to switch to 88 for the football game.

My orginal install was for April 7th but after calling today and begging they moved me to the afternoon of Feb 1st as well. :)

I believe Premier is doing mine. Is yours in the AM by any chance?

Good luck,
Token

I had similar problems this weekend and the audio droputs on Fox were horrible.
I had to switch to 88 for the football game.

My orginal install was for April 7th but after calling today and begging they moved me to the afternoon of Feb 1st as well. :)

I believe Premier is doing mine. Is yours in the AM by any chance?

Good luck,
Token

Hah, mine froze totally during the Chargers game. I had to unplug it and do a reboot. I watch 88 exclusively now to avoid the dropouts. I hope I recorded 24 without problems.

Scott

I had similar problems this weekend and the audio droputs on Fox were horrible.
I had to switch to 88 for the football game.

My orginal install was for April 7th but after calling today and begging they moved me to the afternoon of Feb 1st as well. :)

I believe Premier is doing mine. Is yours in the AM by any chance?

Good luck,
TokenMine is AM (8-12). Don't know who is doing it. Should be easy. I'm getting two DVRs. One for bedroom LCD (simple HDMI connection). One for living room (HDMI + Digital Audio connections).Current dish is installed on garage roof -- already wired for 2 sat/OTA inputs in each room.

FYI -- TV Predictions has a "HD winners" and "HD losers" CES post-mortem:

Winners: http://www.tvpredictions.com/ceswinlose011507.htm

Losers: http://www.tvpredictions.com/ceslose011507.htm

Thanks for the link, Doug. Here's a quote from part of that article:

"Warner Bros.

The studio announced that it would release a DVD that can play both Blu-ray and HD-DVD titles."

Even the people who report on this technology don't seem to understand what it is. They make it sound like a DVD player that will play both Blu-ray and HD-DVD titles. It's really a disc with multiple layers that can contain both Blu-ray and HD DVD versions of the same movie. But it doesn't begin to solve the problem unless all the studios decide to use it. It's still a huge mess.

Here's the real headline:

"Industry shoots its own foot and claims victory.

Dangling the bloody appendage for photographers, consumer electronics manufacturers today announced that they had solved the Blu-ray/HD DVD impasse."

Yummy.

Jack Bauer was awfully chipper for a guy who's been tortured in a Chinese prison for the last two years, and then tortured some more by the new terrorist villain for this season... that was a bit of a stretch. But looks like 24 is off to another rolickin' start! Awesome season premiere!

Not always 100% believeable but 100% entertaining just the same.

Again, I saw numerous, brief picture breakups (blips?) throughout the two hours via OTA.

Not a show stopper, but it does take you out of the moment and reminds you that you're watching a TV show......I hate that.

It's almost always the same dark pixels, flasking across the lower half of the screen for maybe a frame or two. It hapenned maybe 10 times. This is with a solid 100% signal strength.

Not always 100% believeable but 100% entertaining just the same.

Again, I saw numerous, brief picture breakups (blips?) throughout the two hours via OTA.

Not a show stopper, but it does take you out of the moment and reminds you that you're watching a TV show......I hate that.

It's almost always the same dark pixels, flasking across the lower half of the screen for maybe a frame or two. It hapenned maybe 10 times. This is with a solid 100% signal strength.

I watched via DirecTV channel 88 to avoid the audio dropouts on my HD Tivo, and didn't see any of that. PQ was not as good overall as KTVI-DT over the air usually is.

Also recorded it over the air with the Fusion card. When I watch that copy, I'll keep an eye out for those little blips.

Hey Joe Clark, I hope you got the chance to tune in like I recommended! Ya hooked yet?

Thanks for the info. We live in an old part of Shrewsbury, and the trees are very close to the house are are taller than the house. West of south would put the dish on the front slope of the roof, and I don't really want it if it needs to be visible from the front of the house. If we schedule an install and the installer determines that it can't be done in a way that ascetically pleases me, do we still have to pay anything?




Pretty close to south. The birds are scattered in an arc above the equator, so you will probably wind up a little bit west of south. If you have a clear shot about 45 degrees above the horizon (even after the trees grow<G>), you should be OK.

Others here will have exact alignment data, and I defer to them on the exact numbers.

Thanks for the info. We live in an old part of Shrewsbury, and the trees are very close to the house are are taller than the house. West of south would put the dish on the front slope of the roof, and I don't really want it if it needs to be visible from the front of the house. If we schedule an install and the installer determines that it can't be done in a way that ascetically pleases me, do we still have to pay anything?

No, you don't pay a dime (at least that was my experience with E*). You're describing my exact situation. Installer came out, got up on the roof. Found that the only line of sight was on the front slope of the roof. I told him that wouldn't work, so he called his supervisor, explained the situation. The supervisor then asked to speak to me and asked if I would like a second opinion, to see if their were any other options. I told him I was going to pass (a mistake in retrospect - this was before the Charter/Belo debacle). I received a credit for the box (I'd already paid for the receiver) within a couple of days.

Thanks for the info. We live in an old part of Shrewsbury, and the trees are very close to the house are are taller than the house. West of south would put the dish on the front slope of the roof, and I don't really want it if it needs to be visible from the front of the house. If we schedule an install and the installer determines that it can't be done in a way that ascetically pleases me, do we still have to pay anything?
The LOS is approximately 220°-250°, 7-8 on a clock. This varies with location, but it's a rough visual starting point. The reflector needs to, either see in-between, or see over the trees.

So ..........,I have been lurking in the thread for awhile. Thanks to all you folks when Belo closed HD shop on charter I added OTA and couldn't be happier so THANKS!

Heres the rub. I see most of the posters here really like satellite. I dont know much in this regard but I am curious what I might be missing.

I have charter a Moxi 2 room 160 gb HDDVR and digital cable on 5 other sets. It works well, the PQ is good & I like the music jukebox, ability to watch different material in different rooms at the same time and the 2 HDDVRs. I do not like the cost (they love my bill), the CSRs are worthless and I would like more HD channels.

I live in near the 270/44 interchange high on a ridge but have many tall trees

Should I switch and if so what do you suggest and why? What dont you like about satellite?

Please don't attack. I am being sincere here.

Thanks

So ..........,I have been lurking in the thread for awhile. Thanks to all you folks when Belo closed HD shop on charter I added OTA and couldn't be happier so THANKS!Heres the rub. I see most of the posters here really like satellite. I dont know much in this regard but I am curious what I might be missing.
I have charter a Moxi 2 room 160 gb HDDVR and digital cable on 5 other sets. It works well, the PQ is good & I like the music jukebox, ability to watch different material in different rooms at the same time and the 2 HDDVRs. I do not like the cost (they love my bill), the CSRs are worthless and I would like more HD channels.
I live in near the 270/44 interchange high on a ridge but have many tall trees
Should I switch and if so what do you suggest and why? What dont you like
about satellite?
Please don't attack. I am being sincere here.
Thanks
DLSDO,
ALL providers have issues from time-to-time. Safe to say, utopia doesn't exist in pay TV. If your overall feeling towards your current provider is, "you get pretty-much what you need/want," and your consideration is "what else is out there," my opinion is you should stay with your current provider.

Unless you're having problems, or you want/need a particular programming (NFL Sunday Ticket, FSNMW-HD, etc), I do not believe you will find the ends justify the means of switching.

On another topic...does anyone recall if last years Grammy's was a HD/DD production?

Is anyone else having problems picking up fox 2 over the air?? theres no wind or riand and my signal is consistantly dropping out, this is really going to ruin 24 for me tinight!!!!!!! I had no issues last night at all.

Yes, the Grammys have been in HD and DD5.1 for at least the past 3 years, probably longer.

I seem to be having a problem with the audio and video syncing up on my new Dish HD-DVR. Is there anything I can do to adjust this or do I need to contact Dish and have them do something?

Jason

swtws6,

How long have you been receiving OTA? Sometimes this sort of thing happens with multipath interference, only to go away in a few days. This happened to me last winter with KDNL -- after being rock-solid for a couple of years, it was hit and miss. Ten days later it was fine and has been ever since.

FYI -- I'm off of Sullivan Rd in FH/Swansea/Belleville

Is anyone else having problems picking up fox 2 over the air?? theres no wind or riand and my signal is consistantly dropping out, this is really going to ruin 24 for me tinight!!!!!!! I had no issues last night at all.


swtws6 - I am too in Belleville, east end, and no problems at all , watching 24 now...



john

Thanx guys, I went out and tweeked my antenna and now its perfect just doesnt make sense i havent moved it in months and its been perfect till tonight, and i know it didnt move.....

Not always 100% believeable but 100% entertaining just the same.

Again, I saw numerous, brief picture breakups (blips?) throughout the two hours via OTA.

Not a show stopper, but it does take you out of the moment and reminds you that you're watching a TV show......I hate that.

It's almost always the same dark pixels, flasking across the lower half of the screen for maybe a frame or two. It hapenned maybe 10 times. This is with a solid 100% signal strength.

Now it's in SD.

And broadasters want us to pay for this ?

DLSDO,
ALL providers have issues from time-to-time. Safe to say, utopia doesn't exist in pay TV. If your overall feeling towards your current provider is, "you get pretty-much what you need/want," and your consideration is "what else is out there," my opinion is you should stay with your current provider.

Unless you're having problems, or you want/need a particular programming (NFL Sunday Ticket, FSNMW-HD, etc), I do not believe you will find the ends justify the means of switching.

On another topic...does anyone recall if last years Grammy's was a HD/DD production?

Thanks!

FWIW, I checked "Two and Half Men" tonight and didn't see any notification about it downconverting from HD to SD via the component outputs.

Maybe I'm not looking in the correct place, but I checked both the Info button from the program, and also (expanded) Info from the Now Playing List display. Or maybe the previous reports on this were a result of programmers and/or the network experimenting with this particular functionality?

I seem to be having a problem with the audio and video syncing up on my new Dish HD-DVR. Is there anything I can do to adjust this or do I need to contact Dish and have them do something?

Jason
Jason,
First, check your settings:
TV1 Audio Sync
Menu >6 >1 >7 set to High Definition

Dolby Digital
Menu >6 >7 set to Dolby Digital/PCM
RF Mode when using no external decoder (TV speakers)
Line Mode when using a external decoder (sound system)

If all your settings are correct, Video/Audio sync is a know 622 issue. You can usually re-sync the two by pressing pause, skip back, and pressing play. It occurs most often when viewing the HD locals. Sometimes a restart is necessary.

I watched via DirecTV channel 88 to avoid the audio dropouts on my HD Tivo, and didn't see any of that. PQ was not as good overall as KTVI-DT over the air usually is.

Also recorded it over the air with the Fusion card. When I watch that copy, I'll keep an eye out for those little blips.

Hey Joe Clark, I hope you got the chance to tune in like I recommended! Ya hooked yet?

I did watch 24 for the first time last night and liked it very much. Of course, I don't know any of the back story for the characters, so I'm sure I missed a lot. I was mounting a new projection screen today (err, yesterday), so I haven't watched Monday's episodes. I'm not hooked yet, but I think I could get there.

I am hooked on my new high gain projection screen. I got a Da-Lite High Power to go along with the Sharp 20000 projector. In order to take full advantage of the projector's contrast potential, I needed to be able to boost screen brightness. I replaced a Stewart Firehawk with the High Power, and the improvement is remarkable. Can't wait for you to see it, Bob.

I did watch 24 for the first time last night and liked it very much. Of course, I don't know any of the back story for the characters, so I'm sure I missed a lot. I was mounting a new projection screen today (err, yesterday), so I haven't watched Monday's episodes. I'm not hooked yet, but I think I could get there.

I am hooked on my new high gain projection screen. I got a Da-Lite High Power to go along with the Sharp 20000 projector. In order to take full advantage of the projector's contrast potential, I needed to be able to boost screen brightness. I replaced a Stewart Firehawk with the High Power, and the improvement is remarkable. Can't wait for you to see it, Bob.

Regarding the possibility of you getting hooked on 24, trust me, after you watch tonight (putting on my best Yoda impression), "you WILL be." Monday didn't have the nonstop action of Sunday's premiere, but when the commercial said "the last ten minutes will change everything," they weren't kidding!!!!! All four of us were sitting there with our jaws hanging to the floor.

Hmmm, editing the 2nd hour as we speak and I see Dave was right... KTVI fell back to SD for a while shortly after 8PM. Definitely a local issue, since channel 88 on *D didn't do it.

Other than the SD dropout for a few minutes, this'll be awesome to watch on that new projector, Joe!

I checked out the link to the "Replacement for Moxi". I found it impressive with many of the things we have been asking for a year or more. The one piece I didn't see addressed is the Moxi-Mate feature. The ability to access recorded programs from the bedroom is invaluable to me.

BTW, can this be done on any of the SATELLITE SYSTEMS?

THANKS, I have been without power since friday night so I am just catching up back at work.



Howdy Wolvie!

I talked to a Charter rep tonight about the cost increase for swapping my digital cable box with an HD box for my other HDTV. As always, I ask them whether they have upgraded DVRs in yet. To my surprise I got a yes, and apparently only for St. Louis. This guy reiterated what you said, with a few differences. First, it would appear that Moxi really is being dumped. He wasn't sure why, but whatever is in the new DVR is not Moxi, and he mentioned something about the TV guide system, so I'm sure you are right-on with the i-Guide. Secondly, the hard drive is not 120gb, which I have heard a lot of people say, it is 180gb, which is 100gb over most of us first-run Moxi users. Finally (and arguably my favorite thing), there is an HDMI out from the Motorola box. WOO HOO! I can finally ditch this DVI-to-HDMI crap, and free up some more audio cables. The bigger hard drive is going to be nice, too. I can finally go back to recording HD again.

I am 100% with you on the Charter bashing. It's silly, and it gets old. Unfortunately it's one of the things that has more or less chased me from this site. Lots of great people here, and extremely helpful, but having to wade through the incessant hate posts just wears you down.

/slinks back to the trolling shadows. :-P

Mediacom Seeks Congressional Intervention in Sinclair Dispute

Too precious. One more opportunity for Congress to pervert the free market.

How can they possibly resist?
_____________________________________________________

In many cities, local stations are refusing to permit cable TV operators to air their High-Definition TV signals unless they pay extra compensation. The practice, which has outraged high-def owners, could finally become the subject of a congressional investigation.

Mediacom, a mid-sized cable operator based in the Midwest, has asked Congress to hold hearings on its ongoing dispute with Sinclair Broadcasting, which is blocking the cable op from airing both standard and high-def signals in several states.
______________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here (http://www.tvpredictions.com/congresshd011607.htm)

Mediacom Seeks Congressional Intervention in Sinclair Dispute

Too precious. One more opportunity for Congress to pervert the free market.

How can they possibly resist?
_____________________________________________________

In many cities, local stations are refusing to permit cable TV operators to air their High-Definition TV signals unless they pay extra compensation. The practice, which has outraged high-def owners, could finally become the subject of a congressional investigation.

Mediacom, a mid-sized cable operator based in the Midwest, has asked Congress to hold hearings on its ongoing dispute with Sinclair Broadcasting, which is blocking the cable op from airing both standard and high-def signals in several states.
______________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here (http://www.tvpredictions.com/congresshd011607.htm)
Unfortunately, most congressman are completely clueless when it comes to technology, and end up being swayed by lobbies, etc., who do not have our best interests in mind. The consumer often looses when Congress considers technology (DMCA being the most infamous example).

Unfortunately, most congressman are completely clueless when it comes to technology, and end up being swayed by lobbies, etc., who do not have our best interests in mind. The consumer often looses when Congress considers technology (DMCA being the most infamous example).Well, hopefully someone will point out to them that satellite companies have managed to agree to terms with virtually all local broadcasters going back nearly a decade for analog signals, and more recently for digital channels.

No foot-dragging. No mumbling and grumbling. No run-to-Mommy hysterics. :rolleyes:

I understand your point about technology, but this isn't about technology -- this is about money. I venture that money is something that our elected representatives understand only too well -- that is if they have any interest in actually trying to understand what the real issues are here.

I\...
BTW, can this be done on any of the SATELLITE SYSTEMS?

THANKS, I have been without power since friday night so I am just catching up back at work.

I think the Dish 622 does this, but KDG### could say for sure
Dug

It would be interesting if the cable companies stated paying and charging for the local HD stations. Could the consumer then charge the local station for time lost in SD when their idiots forget to throw the switch. There should be a sliding scale for loss of HD based on programming importance.....e.g. $0.50 for the news, $50.00 for an NFL playoff game.

I think if payment is required for the HD channel, right to carry should be discontinued. If they want to be treated like HBO, then they should be TOTALLY treated like HBO. Trouble is, they want their cake after it is eaten and the consumer to pay for it all.

Walt

The problem is we just do not know how much money it will cost the hd users.I think charter should just tell everyone how much kdnl and kmox are asking of course ksd and fox will want there fair share so we could be talking a sizeable fund.I have a db4 coming from antennas direct just to be ready for whatever happens.

Adult Film Honcho Says Sony Kicked Him to HD DVD Curb

From today's TV Predictions newsletter:
_______________________________________________________

Joone, the founder of the adult film studio Digital Playground, says he will release his movies in the HD-DVD high-def disc format.

The decision is a reversal for the porn firm which said last year that it would support Sony's Blu-ray in the high-def DVD format war.

However, Joone tells Heise Online, the web site for the German magazine Heise, that "Sony wants me to publish my films on HD-DVD."

He said all Blu-ray DVD copying facilities refused to cooperate with him in recording his films on Blu-ray discs. The adult executive hinted that Sony was not interested in seeing adult movies on Blu-ray.

The executive said he was disappointed by the response because he wanted to reach young male owners of the Play Station 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside.

The remarks are puzzling, considering the Vivid Entertainment, an adult studio rival, is planning to release its first film on Blu-ray this spring.

However, Joone said he will release four HD-DVD titles between now and the first week of February, including Island Fever 3, Pirates, Teen America and Island Fever 4.

Joone added that he hopes to launch four new titles each month.
_______________________________________________________


That's it for Blu-Ray. Porn *made* VHS the default standard...

That's it for Blu-Ray. Porn *made* VHS the default standard...

A couple of things that doesn't mention are that Vivid, one of the largest Adult companies is on with BluRay and being produced, also, In the VHS vs Beta days, there wasn't porn for free everywhere you look on the internet. They also said, last year, BluRay won because all of these porn companies jumped on BluRay. I think it's unlikely porn will decide the winner this time around.

People also said the PS3 would seal the fate of HD-DVD in favor of BRD. Doesn't look like that's the case either. Last time I was at Best Buy I saw a whole pallet of PS3s with no one really taking interest in it.

The ability to access recorded programs from the bedroom is invaluable to me.
BTW, can this be done on any of the SATELLITE SYSTEMS?
I think the Dish 622 does this, but KDG### could say for sure
Dug
Yes, If the bedroom is the "second" room, it will have full access to the DVR, both HD and SD events, but everything shown in the "second" room, will be down-converted to SD for display.

The Dish 625 does this also, with all TV's in SD.

It would be interesting if the cable companies stated paying and charging for the local HD stations. Could the consumer then charge the local station for time lost in SD when their idiots forget to throw the switch. There should be a sliding scale for loss of HD based on programming importance.....e.g. $0.50 for the news, $50.00 for an NFL playoff game.


And to take this one step further, there's still really not that much on the HD channels IN HD to pay even MORE premium. The HD feeds are, at this time, little more than glorified SD stations.

When MOST of the programming is HD, maybe then it makes a little more sense.

And to take this one step further, there's still really not that much on the HD channels IN HD to pay even MORE premium. The HD feeds are, at this time, little more than glorified SD stations.If I understand what you are claiming, I disagree. Which channels are you talking about? Nowadays, the OTA HD channels show a significant amount of their prime time and sports programming in HD. The dedicated HD channels have a lot of HD programming (and ones like Discovery HD Theater and HDNet have all or nearly all programming in HD).

The only really bad example I can think of that matches your claim is TNT HD. It shows relatively little in HD, and stretches and upconverts SD content all the time. It really does a disservice, but stands alone in this regard, AFAIK.

Or did I misunderstand?

Yes, If the bedroom is the "second" room, it will have full access to the DVR, both HD and SD events, but everything shown in the "second" room, will be down-converted to SD for display.

The Dish 625 does this also, with all TV's in SD.

My question is how does it get the signal to the "second" room? Does it use another "little" box like the moxi mate or do you have to run a seperate coax from the dvr to the "second" room?

Tim

Anybody notice any PQ problems with 24 both nights?
I'm on Charter HD, and I had several instances of the pic breaking up (like a bad antenna signal), just for a second, like a line or block of squares.
A friend watching on Dish HD said he had the same problem.
We're wondering because we both have the same TV (Olevia 537H).

barry

Anybody notice any PQ problems with 24 both nights?
I'm on Charter HD, and I had several instances of the pic breaking up (like a bad antenna signal), just for a second, like a line or block of squares.
A friend watching on Dish HD said he had the same problem.
We're wondering because we both have the same TV (Olevia 537H).

barry

If you go back a few pages, we have been talking about this.

Here is my post with pictures:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9424116&highlight=fox+house#post9424116

If you go back a few pages, we have been talking about this.

Here is my post with pictures:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9424116&highlight=fox+house#post9424116

Right, I remember that now, it's a Fox thing... thx

My question is how does it get the signal to the "second" room? Does it use another "little" box like the moxi mate or do you have to run a seperate coax from the dvr to the "second" room?

Tim
It's hard-wired. Connected to the receiver in the first room by either coax, composite, or S-Video.
The second room has its own UHF remote for receiver access.
Once connected, it is no different than having 2 separate DVR receivers in each room.

Right, I remember that now, it's a Fox thing... thx

I was going to volunteer DropTheRemote do this but I am going to take it on..

I have sent an email to Fox2 asking for some information regarding the problems
we are seeing.

It's hard-wired. Connected to the receiver in the first room by either coax, composite, or S-Video.
The second room has its own UHF remote for receiver access.
Once connected, it is no different than having 2 separate DVR receivers in each room.

Maybe I'm a little slow....

I have my main tv in the Living Room on the main level and my "second" tv upstairs in the bedroom with all the cable coming into the basement. I hook the DVR up to the "first" tv in the living room. I then need to run another coax cable up to the "second" tv upstairs or down to the basement to "splice" back into the "second" tv coax.

Is that correct?

If I understand what you are claiming, I disagree. Which channels are you talking about? Nowadays, the OTA HD channels show a significant amount of their prime time and sports programming in HD. The dedicated HD channels have a lot of HD programming (and ones like Discovery HD Theater and HDNet have all or nearly all programming in HD).

The only really bad example I can think of that matches your claim is TNT HD. It shows relatively little in HD, and stretches and upconverts SD content all the time. It really does a disservice, but stands alone in this regard, AFAIK.

Or did I misunderstand?Dean, I agree with your basic point, but want to add to it that in a little more than 2 years it's all a moot point -- the digital channel will be THE local channel (the analog channel will be gone).

KSDK- NBC and KTVI - FOX

Does anyone know the agreement that Charter has with KSDK and KTVI and how long those deals are in place for? They are the only remaining local HD channels over Charter now, I would hate to seem them go away too.

Maybe I'm a little slow....

I have my main tv in the Living Room on the main level and my "second" tv upstairs in the bedroom with all the cable coming into the basement. I hook the DVR up to the "first" tv in the living room. I then need to run another coax cable up to the "second" tv upstairs or down to the basement to "splice" back into the "second" tv coax.

Is that correct?
It can be confusing. The best way to put it is, by whatever means, there needs to be a connection from the back of the receiver (in the living room) to the back of the TV (upstairs) It can be routed by whatever means, Living Room >basement > upstairs TV.
To be more specific, since there has to be some form of current connection (via coax) between your basement and upstairs TV, the satellite installer would deploy diplexers, and back-feed your living room receiver down to the basement, to then connect it, in the basement, to the feed going to the upstairs TV. Or, a new, separate coax could be run, but if there already exists a usable connection, there's no sense to run new cabling.

From today's Evening Bridge market close newsletter:
________________________________________________________

After Mediacom sent a letter to Capitol Hill asking lawmakers to intercede in its retransmission consent dispute with Sinclair, the broadcasting giant's President and CEO David Smith wrote top leaders today about the companies' ongoing dispute, saying the spat "is not a matter that requires Congressional action."

Smith also called comments Mediacom CEO Rocco Commisso made in the company's earlier letter to Congress "baseless and outrageous allegations."
________________________________________________________

I was going to volunteer DropTheRemote do this but I am going to take it on..

I have sent an email to Fox2 asking for some information regarding the problems
we are seeing.

Good Luck. I thought I was making some headway last year (or 2 years ago) when one of the engineers actually called me back after I called the station to report problems. We actually exchanged calls a couple of times and things did in fact get better, but then he tired of being "interupted" at work.

Below is an excerpt from the new Scientific American on how cable companies might meet the bandwidth challenges.



"One way to manage the pipeline problem is to adjust the transmission techniques. Cable operators have begun employing a modified system architecture called switched broadcasting (also known as switched digital video). A hybrid fiber coaxial cable system brings an optical fiber trunk with seemingly limitless bandwidth to a neighborhood, but then branches to coaxial cable, with its 750-MHz limitation, for the last leg, serving 300 to 500 homes on a node that loops from the fiber. Conventional signal distribution carries every channel in parallel into each home, so that a parent might be tuning into ESPNHD in one room while a child enjoys MHD (the high-def sibling of MTV) in her room. At any particular time, though, nobody is watching most of the channels on the node.

The new way is to stream only the channels that tuners on that node have requested at that moment. The beauty of the system is that node bandwidth, which was once allocated equally to popular and hardly watched channels alike, can now be freed up to make room for more high-definition channels as needed- because most people are likely to be choosing from among the same popular channels rather than from obscure options. Part of the reason the cable industry is now talking about a hybrid fiber-coaxial system is increasing competition from the telephone companies Verizon and AT&T, which have begun rolling out fiber to homes (or groups of homes) in select communities. In a couple of years many more households are expected to be able to get TV service from their "phone" company. "

So....in 2009 when all channels must be digital what happens with right to carry. Will Below force Charter to carry the HD feed and bill them whatever they want???? I think "right to carry" must go away and only the feds can make that happen.

Walt

Below is an excerpt from the new Scientific American on how cable companies might meet the bandwidth challenges.



"One way to manage the pipeline problem is to adjust the transmission techniques. Cable operators have begun employing a modified system architecture called switched broadcasting (also known as switched digital video). A hybrid fiber coaxial cable system brings an optical fiber trunk with seemingly limitless bandwidth to a neighborhood, but then branches to coaxial cable, with its 750-MHz limitation, for the last leg, serving 300 to 500 homes on a node that loops from the fiber. Conventional signal distribution carries every channel in parallel into each home, so that a parent might be tuning into ESPNHD in one room while a child enjoys MHD (the high-def sibling of MTV) in her room. At any particular time, though, nobody is watching most of the channels on the node.

The new way is to stream only the channels that tuners on that node have requested at that moment. The beauty of the system is that node bandwidth, which was once allocated equally to popular and hardly watched channels alike, can now be freed up to make room for more high-definition channels as needed- because most people are likely to be choosing from among the same popular channels rather than from obscure options. Part of the reason the cable industry is now talking about a hybrid fiber-coaxial system is increasing competition from the telephone companies Verizon and AT&T, which have begun rolling out fiber to homes (or groups of homes) in select communities. In a couple of years many more households are expected to be able to get TV service from their "phone" company. "
That's interesting reading thilt. Is there any additional information on the subject available by any link...I'd like to learn more about it. :)

At the same time, I can't help thinking of the saying, "what if they threw a party, and no one showed up."
Other than some ingenious TV spots, just what is capacity, anyway?

IIRC, it's not really called "right to carry" but "must carry." And it's an either/or thing. A local station can TRY to get the cable company to pay them for their signal OR they can invoke "must carry" and the cable company then has to carry their signal (for free).

But a station can't force a cable company to carry its signal AND get paid for it.... well, not by law anyway. If the reaction here to the Charter/Belo fracas is indicative of things, Charter may be forced to pay for Sinclair's and Belo's signal by nothing more than market forces.

And I don't think Sinclair is being unreasonable. They are asking for $.50 per
customer. Good Grief. I agree with Sinclair, cable co's pay other company's for
their, what I perceive crap, channels. I think they can pony up the $.50 per customer.

Good Luck. I thought I was making some headway last year (or 2 years ago) when one of the engineers actually called me back after I called the station to report problems. We actually exchanged calls a couple of times and things did in fact get better, but then he tired of being "interupted" at work.

Do you recall who you were working with? If I don't get a response I guess I could call the station manager.

BTW, your signature line has a typo :D

Well, I just created a BLOG on their website, so lets see if that gets any hits.

IIRC, the beef with Sinclair has been that for their HD signal, they've demanded not just 50 cents per HD subscriber, but 50 cents per subscriber, period... whether they'll actually be getting the HD signal or not. There's a reeeeeally loooong thread about this in the HD Programming section.

But I'll admit my memory might be a bit fuzzy. If I'm wrong on this, feel free to b*tchslap me on it................

And I don't think Sinclair is being unreasonable. They are asking for $.50 per
customer. Good Grief. I agree with Sinclair, cable co's pay other company's for
their, what I perceive crap, channels. I think they can pony up the $.50 per customer.

The other side of the argument:

Why should the cable co have to pay to retransmit a signal that is freely available via OTA means?

Cheers,

That's interesting reading thilt. Is there any additional information on the subject available by any link...I'd like to learn more about it. :)

At the same time, I can't help thinking of the saying, "what if they threw a party, and no one showed up."
Other than some ingenious TV spots, just what is capacity, anyway?

This is a small excerpt from an article primarily devoted to the termination of analog broadcasts in 2009. I scanned it in from my hard copy and could not find it on the SciAm website. I'll keep an eye out for more info though.

With all the challenges Charter currently faces, this is probably just a theoretical discussion for us cable customers in St. Louis. (at least for the forseeable future)

Tom

Do you recall who you were working with? If I don't get a response I guess I could call the station manager.

BTW, your signature line has a typo :D

I don't remember, but I think I posted it here, somewhere. If you don't have any luck, remind me to find the info.

fixed the sig :)

The other side of the argument:

Why should the cable co have to pay to retransmit a signal that is freely available via OTA means?The Riverfront Times is free, but that doesn't mean that someone can come along and combine that product with other content and sell it for commercial gain.

Giving away a product for free in one channel doesn't mean you give up the right to sell it for a profit through other channels.

This is a small excerpt from an article primarily devoted to the termination of analog broadcasts in 2009. I scanned it in from my hard copy and could not find it on the SciAm website. I'll keep an eye out for more info though.

With all the challenges Charter currently faces, this is probably just a theoretical discussion for us cable customers in St. Louis. (at least for the forseeable future)"Switched broadcast" has been discussed here previously and some Charter insiders who posted here in the past indicated the company plans to make use of it as a way to maximize bandwidth.

I guess us Charter subscribers are pretty much screwed for the Colts/Pats game this weekend. Any chance at all that it will be in HD on Charter CBS?

This is unbeleivable! I'm having the guys over for both games this weekend and the AFC game is going to look like total crap!!

Doc

Doc

You have a G90 done by Ken? I am so jealous. Were you at Cliff's Blendzilla meet? I still can't believe the picture from 2 G90s. It was breathtaking.

Walt

Do you recall who you were working with? If I don't get a response I guess I could call the station manager.

I haven't found the guy's name, but the phone number I was calling was 314-644-7425. I think the info might be in the first post of this thread....yep, here it is:
Don Rockwell (tech contact)
(314) 644-7425

I also checked my email. I sent 3 emails to the station that went unanswered. One back on 11/29/05, and then the other 2 in February of 2006.

It can be confusing. The best way to put it is, by whatever means, there needs to be a connection from the back of the receiver (in the living room) to the back of the TV (upstairs) It can be routed by whatever means, Living Room >basement > upstairs TV.
To be more specific, since there has to be some form of current connection (via coax) between your basement and upstairs TV, the satellite installer would deploy diplexers, and back-feed your living room receiver down to the basement, to then connect it, in the basement, to the feed going to the upstairs TV. Or, a new, separate coax could be run, but if there already exists a usable connection, there's no sense to run new cabling.

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it. Now I just have to wait until Feb 1 for the free 622.

Tim

The other side of the argument:

Why should the cable co have to pay to retransmit a signal that is freely available via OTA means?

Cheers,

DirecTV and DISH pay the stations to carry their signals, they do this because it is added value
for their company to offer these services. The same for Charter, it is an added value. It makes their
services more attractive to consumers, so why shouldn't they have to pay for it?

I haven't found the guy's name, but the phone number I was calling was 314-644-7425. I think the info might be in the first post of this thread....yep, here it is:
Don Rockwell (tech contact)
(314) 644-7425

I also checked my email. I sent 3 emails to the station that went unanswered. One back on 11/29/05, and then the other 2 in February of 2006.

Okay, thanks. I saw his name on the info Doug posted, but I didn't know if that was still valid.

OK, I'm not a Battlestar fan, but when I saw the new issue of Hef's magazine I finally figured out why all you guys are watching it. ;)

OK, I'm not a Battlestar fan, but when I saw the new issue of Hef's magazine I finally figured out why all you guys are watching it. ;)

How were the articles?

I recently switched from charter to dish and I am real happy, the only reason I was with charter was for local hi-defs and once they pulled CBS, I decided that's it I decided to jump. The guy who installed the dish did not install 1000x dish but using silver sensor I am getting all the OTA channels with 70-80% signal strength. So I am thinking whether to keep the local channels through DISH or cancel, any suggestions as OTC reception is quite good

so why shouldn't they have to pay for it?
Pay for the right to carry ads? I'm supposing that the cable clients would see the same stream as OTA clients, ads and all. In that case the locals should be paying the cable company, as it brings the ads to a bigger audience.

OTOH, if the cable company pays for the rights, should they not be able to strip the ads out, since the price of the ads only presumed OTA reception?

How were the articles?


I am illiterate. Articles?

I recently switched from charter to dish and I am real happy, the only reason I was with charter was for local hi-defs and once they pulled CBS, I decided that's it I decided to jump. The guy who installed the dish did not install 1000x dish but using silver sensor I am getting all the OTA channels with 70-80% signal strength. So I am thinking whether to keep the local channels through DISH or cancel, any suggestions as OTC reception is quite good
If you decide to keep your locals subscription with DISH, they must install the 1000+, and whatever else is needed, for you to received the STL Digital (HD) locals.
It's part of the package, and you're entitled to it....Free.

Note, if you cancel your locals subscription with DISH, and go only OTA, the OTA channels will still show up in the EPG, but the data will no longer populate. It will say "digital service" 24/7 for the OTA's. If you do the DVR thing, you would also have to manually time all OTA events.

I am illiterate. Articles?
8 months.

I recently switched from charter to dish and I am real happy, the only reason I was with charter was for local hi-defs and once they pulled CBS, I decided that's it I decided to jump. The guy who installed the dish did not install 1000x dish but using silver sensor I am getting all the OTA channels with 70-80% signal strength. So I am thinking whether to keep the local channels through DISH or cancel, any suggestions as OTC reception is quite good


Just understand if you cancel locals with Dish your Program Guide will no longer download the guide information for those OTA channels. I have not seen this firsthand as I subscribe to locals, but it has been widely discussed here and on other forums. This makes it harder to "surf" the guide and much more difficult to schedule recordings if you are using a DVR.

Edit: Damn, sorry Ken beat me to the punch.

8 months.


She is currently halfway, and while not too uncomfortable she is already feeling body parts trying to poke through her side lol. With twins everyone is saying they will come early too.

The Riverfront Times is free, but that doesn't mean that someone can come along and combine that product with other content and sell it for commercial gain.

Giving away a product for free in one channel doesn't mean you give up the right to sell it for a profit through other channels.

I consider it convenience for your customers and nothing more. They (the cable companies) don't garner substantial profit for the carriage of local channels. The profit is in the additional channels beyond the locals. This requires a tier beyond lifeline service (locals + 1-2 other channels).

I understand where you're coming from; but don't agree with what you're saying. If Charter only recoups their costs to carry then they aren't profiting from the arrangement.

Cheers,

she is already feeling body parts trying to poke through her side lol.
And.....go on.....

DirecTV and DISH pay the stations to carry their signals, they do this because it is added value
for their company to offer these services. The same for Charter, it is an added value. It makes their
services more attractive to consumers, so why shouldn't they have to pay for it?

Because all they are doing is repackaging the signal.

With Dish, the charge is $5/month and that has to cover the costs of installing/maintaining the backhauls for all the local channels.

As I told Doug, I don't agree with the practice.

Cheers,

If a company has a product people will pay for, I just see no reason the company should not ask for a fee for the product.

And DHL just stopped at my office with a late Christmas present. This is gonna look good for the Super Bowl, if I can get through my break in period and find time for Doug to stop by and calibrate it before the game.

Ken,

I'm not sure what there is to "go on" with?

I consider it convenience for your customers and nothing more. They (the cable companies) don't garner substantial profit for the carriage of local channels. The profit is in the additional channels beyond the locals. This requires a tier beyond lifeline service (locals + 1-2 other channels).

I understand where you're coming from; but don't agree with what you're saying. If Charter only recoups their costs to carry then they aren't profiting from the arrangement.

Cheers,
Personally, I feel any company has the right to charge a fair fee for goods/services rendered.

Although, in this particular case, aren't the broadcasters (sinclair/belo) kind of changing the rules in the middle of the game? Had the broadcasters waited until 2009, when the analog goes away, and the "must carry" or "right to carry" or whatever it is, also goes away, would that not have been the better point the broadcasters would begin to charge for their HD signals? Announcing their plans now, in 2005-6?

If you decide to keep your locals subscription with DISH, they must install the 1000+, and whatever else is needed, for you to received the STL Digital (HD) locals.
It's part of the package, and you're entitled to it....Free.

Note, if you cancel your locals subscription with DISH, and go only OTA, the OTA channels will still show up in the EPG, but the data will no longer populate. It will say "digital service" 24/7 for the OTA's. If you do the DVR thing, you would also have to manually time all OTA events.


Thanks guys for the info, I guess I will get the 1000+ and keep paying 5 bucks for EPG.

Ken,I'm not sure what there is to "go on" with?
Just as well.

Glad you're out of DHL panic mode :D

Thanks guys for the info, I guess I will get the 1000+ and keep paying 5 bucks for EPG.

It is nice to have a backup plan. With the bad weather over the weekend, not
only did I lose power for 20 hours, but when it came back on I had lost some of my
OTA signals, so I just watched the HD Locals using DirecTV.

If Charter would just use a box that could pick up the HD locals over the air, they wouldn't have to pay the locals anything and all of their customers would be just happy. I currently have Charter with the 10 meg internet service. I've called Dish and DTV to see what my options are. I don't have a home phone in my house because I have no use for one. ATT does have naked dsl now, but with Dish I will need a phone line. If I wait til Feb, I don't have to pay for the box. I called dtv last night and it will cost me $200 for the hd dvr that I will still only be leasing. If that HD tivo wasn't so much money, I'd just buy it and keep Charter. I don't know what I'm going to do, but not being able to watch CBS in HD is really driving me nuts.

It is nice to have a backup plan. With the bad weather over the weekend, not
only did I lose power for 20 hours, but when it came back on I had lost some of my
OTA signals, so I just watched the HD Locals using DirecTV.


I completely agree. And if he has the 622 it adds so many more recording options for multiple timers without a conflict.

I consider it convenience for your customers and nothing more. They (the cable companies) don't garner substantial profit for the carriage of local channels. The profit is in the additional channels beyond the locals. This requires a tier beyond lifeline service (locals + 1-2 other channels).
Cheers,

I'm not entirely in agreement with this. I know of, and have used in the past, Charter simply to avoid rabbit ears or an antenna on the roof. The carriage of the locals helps establish a video company in the community. If the locals provided no benefit to Charter, DirecTV and Dish wouldn't have spent the majority of their money on providing locals over the past 10 years.

I am also accepting of the fact that locals have changed. Locals are now little more than a transmission media for local news and first runs of network programming. Otherwise everything they have is replicated elsewhere. My point here is that while locals are supported by ads, so are the Disney's and ESPNs, and TLCs, and Discovery's of the worlds. So if those are supported by Ads AND carriage agreements, why shouldn't the locals be as well?

To put it another way, if it wasn't for government oversight, any local station carried on cable would be insane. Why? I can get money for every subscriber on Dish and DirecTV. I get nothing for cable. So I want my subscribers either using rabbit ears and receiving my community service, or using a pay provider that pays me for my content. Period. This is the way it should be. Without locals, Charter is nothing (evidence by the exodus of HD subscribers). Therefore, Sinclair's, Belo's, Gannett's, and Fox's content and carriage is EXTREMELY valuable to Charter and those companies should reap some benefits of providing this content to Charter.

Chris

Haha, I just saw a commercial on TNT-HD (via Charter) that said "Dish Network subscribers STAND UP! CourtTV has been DROPPED! Call and complain, etc."

Of all the channels dropped and arguments about NFL Network etc I found this highly amusing.

If Charter would just use a box that could pick up the HD locals over the air, they wouldn't have to pay the locals anything and all of their customers would be just happy. I currently have Charter with the 10 meg internet service. I've called Dish and DTV to see what my options are. I don't have a home phone in my house because I have no use for one. ATT does have naked dsl now, but with Dish I will need a phone line. If I wait til Feb, I don't have to pay for the box. I called dtv last night and it will cost me $200 for the hd dvr that I will still only be leasing. If that HD tivo wasn't so much money, I'd just buy it and keep Charter. I don't know what I'm going to do, but not being able to watch CBS in HD is really driving me nuts.

I've been through this multiple times as well. I'm currently on AT&T w/DSL and DirecTV. I ditched everything from Charter although for a long time I had cable internet because DSL wasn't available. I just paid the single service penalty to Charter.

With that said, here's the advice from my wife that got me to where I am. "You spent thousands of dollars on a new TV, we watch movies, sports, and everything else on it. Its designed to get HD to look its best. You're telling me after all this, because you won't sacrifice a little speed on your Internet or spend an extra $15-20 month you're wasting the major advantage of your $3000 TV and I'm getting only 1/2 of the HD programs I could be?"

That kind of put it in perspective.

Chris

Haha, I just saw a commercial on TNT-HD (via Charter) that said "Dish Network subscribers STAND UP! CourtTV has been DROPPED! Call and complain, etc."

Of all the channels dropped and arguments about NFL Network etc I found this highly amusing.
The phone number provided, takes you to a recorded message, that says, "press 1 to connect to DirecTV, or press 2 to connect to your local cable company. I think it's a DTV sponsored spot. The same spot ran when DISH dropped Lifetime/LMN, until Lifetime realized 100% of nothing, is still nothing.

I've been through this multiple times as well. I'm currently on AT&T w/DSL and DirecTV. I ditched everything from Charter although for a long time I had cable internet because DSL wasn't available. I just paid the single service penalty to Charter.

With that said, here's the advice from my wife that got me to where I am. "You spent thousands of dollars on a new TV, we watch movies, sports, and everything else on it. Its designed to get HD to look its best. You're telling me after all this, because you won't sacrifice a little speed on your Internet or spend an extra $15-20 month you're wasting the major advantage of your $3000 TV and I'm getting only 1/2 of the HD programs I could be?"

That kind of put it in perspective.

Chris

LOL, your Wife should be in sales if she isn't already. :)

Scott

Scott,
Manning or Belichick?

COLTS COLTS COLTS.

And BTW Scott............GO BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, Bears/Colts is a best game for the SB.
THE game of the year is Colts/Pats....Scott may not agree :p

Anyone know who will be calling the SB? I think CBS should sign a single-day contract with Joe or Al :D

You should also be aware that the 6412 has firewire out. It is the same box that people are recording to their computers recorded programs from the box. I want.

Walt

I know this box has been out for a while, but anyone get this new box yet from Charter? First impressions?

Thanks!

We get the privilege of listening to the A Team for CBS. Phil Simms and Jim Nantz... YEAH...

Hopefully Radio will have a good pair.

If that HD tivo wasn't so much money, I'd just buy it and keep Charter. I don't know what I'm going to do, but not being able to watch CBS in HD is really driving me nuts.

Just FYI, the Tivo Series 3 is readily available for under $650. Still a lot of money, but better than the $800 list price. There is a whole thread on prices in the Tivo Forums. Additionally, Tivo will allow you to transfer a lifetime subscription for $199, provided you buy the unit by 1/31/07 and activate by 3/2/2007. If you don't already have a liftime subscription, they can be purchased on ebay, but they are getting pricey. Alternatively, the monthly Tivo subscription can be purchased for as little as $8.xx per month if you pre-pay a 3-year committment. Someone smarter than me will have to figure out the cost/benefit/breakeven point when compared with the Moxi. You have to be a member of Mensa to decipher the Charter billing practices... :confused:

Glendale,

Will Tivo sell them for $650 or do you have to buy them somewhere else? I have a lifetime subscription and understood that I needed to purchase the unit from Tivo. Thanks.

Scott,
Manning or Belichick?

I've never been one to hold a grudge, but man I hope Manning kills the Pats!

Scott

DirecTV and DISH pay the stations to carry their signals, they do this because it is added value
for their company to offer these services. The same for Charter, it is an added value. It makes their
services more attractive to consumers, so why shouldn't they have to pay for it?

Anybody know what Belo or Sinclair gets from the satellite companies? You think it is less than what Belo or Sinclair wants from Charter?

Glendale,

Will Tivo sell them for $650 or do you have to buy them somewhere else? I have a lifetime subscription and understood that I needed to purchase the unit from Tivo. Thanks.

You have to buy it somewhere else (several online retailers have it for under $650), but Tivo no longer requires you to purchase from their website to qualify for the lifetime transfer. See this thread: tivo community forum (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=336963)

The interesting thing about this Belo/Sinclair/Charter dustup is that we've collectively found about three dozen different ways to disagree on a single topic. And yet we're still on speaking terms... ;)

I'm going to add three more things here, and then I'm (probably) done:

* First, I think there's a strong, generally unstated, element running through this issue that the local broadcasters are unfairly benefiting from the fact that their product/service is dependent on the public airwaves, which they have access to at well below market cost. I can understand the foundation for that viewpoint, but I think the broadcasters have satisfactorily fulfilled their "public obligation" (at least as it's traditionally been defined) by making the resulting product/service available to anyone who wants for free via those public airwaves.

If it turns out (as it has recently) that there's still residual value in delivering that product or service through other means, there isn't any reason that they shouldn't be able to charge for it. It's not illegal, immoral or unethical.

What is arguable and could be part of the long-term endgame, is that maybe government takes the position that broadcasters in the 21st century are in a much better position to pay a larger part of the free market value of the public spectrum they are using. From there it logically follows, that if a broadcaster can't (or won't) pay a larger portion of the full market value of that spectrum, then maybe that spectrum should be diverted to more productive use.

While that might all seem a bit "pie in the sky," the fact is there is greater demand for spectrum than there ever has been, and that demand doesn't show any signs of getting smaller. Can we really continue to justify providing something this scarce at below market rates -- just because that's the way it's always been done?

Maybe (for me, a big maybe) you can justify that for PBS and NPR. But for broadcasters who are primarily focused on making the biggest possible profit for shareholders?

I don't think so.

* Second, it seems to me that the cable companies are pinning their hopes on an ultimately illogical argument.

On the one hand, they imply that the local stations should be available to them for free, largely because that's a key underlying assumption of their business model.

Suggesting they should be free implies they have no real value once they have been distributed over the airwaves. But then, when they're denied free, secondary access, they protest and escalate the issue to government. That pretty much exposes the fallacy that they should be free -- if they have no value, then why get all hot and bothered that you can't have them without paying?

The very argument they make, disproves their argument. And ultimately, the only argument that's actually coming across is that because these local stations have been free in the past, they should be free forever.

Would a cable company accept the same logic for video on demand, which is currently offered for free?

Of course, the cable argument is also undermined by the fact that satellite companies have been willingly (and apparently happily) paying for the right to carry these local stations -- for the very reason that they make the overall product they are selling more attractive. Satellite TV distribution grew very rapidly in the late 1990s once local channels could be made available. That's the very definition of value.

* Third, I think this whole issue just demonstrates how archaic the "protected" nature of local broadcasting is, particularly the concept of protected, "exclusive" market distribution.

These are businesses that developed primarily as a way to relay national TV signals to all parts of the country at a time when it was prohibitively expensive to create a TV service. The only scale that made any sense was a national scale. And the only way to achieve national distribution at the dawn of the television era was through national-to-local distribution.

Of course, the other major justification for a national-to-local system of broadcasting was to create a feeder news network for national broadcast news operations. Remember, this was a time when the national news outlets of the day were a handful of major metropolitan daily newspapers, the two primary wire services (AP and UPI) and the national TV news networks. What a long, strange trip it's been since then.

None of this is true today. The fact that there are more than 200 channels available to viewers that want them clearly demonstrates that cost is not anything like the virtually insurmountable hurdle it was in 1940.

Likewise, getting national distribution is something that can either be bought or bestowed by nature of producing and controlling truly "must have" content.

As for TV news, the main broadcast networks are not much more than an afterthought when it comes not just to televised news, but particularly when you look at all the ways public interest information can be found today. The national TV networks' commitment to their news operations is lukewarm at best -- these are businesses where making money is the only thing that really matters, and network news isn't anything like the money-spinner it was even 20 years ago.

What's really needed is a completely fresh look at how public airwaves are used for broadcast television, and to figure out how to better regulate broadcast television business in a forward-looking way, because the past has little relevance to where we're now headed.