St. Louis, MO - HDTV *OLD* [Text View] - Page 8

Robert Simandl

05-16-04, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Wow, the tapes look great. I have never seen Enterprise look and sound so good. Now, I'm really looing forward to what the dvds you make will look like. Way cool. And yes, I'd love to check out your HD-Tivo when you get it. If you're into audo as well, I have a fabulous system with Martin Logan Quest electrostatic speakers and Krell monoblocks, an Audible Illusions tube preamp, and digital by Theta and Audio Alchemy. Let me know.

Hey Jedi,

Glad you liked the tapes. The DVD-R of the next two episodes will look even better considering it will be a bit-for-bit clone of what the ReplayTV records, not dubbed down to S-VHS.

You'll be on the invite list when the HD Tivo gets here... probably at least a month from now since I'm still pretty far down the Value Electronics preorder list... unless I manage to get in on the circuitcity.com apparently-daily in stock window. Wish I'd had it here tonight... on the HTL-HD, Helter Skelter on 4-1 looked like it was just happening right outside my window tonight (kind of creepy given the subject matter) :eek: I'd love to able to play that back again.

Martin Logan and Krell? Those are names I've only heard whispered in hushed tones before :D My audio is currently a Carver receiver with a Sony ES add-on Dolby Digital decoder, feeding plain ol' Yamaha speakers... though the Pinnacle subwoofer provides enough bass to register on the richter scale when necessary. I'd love to hear yours sometime soon!

jedi35

05-17-04, 02:46 AM

Robert,

My schedule's pretty open until mid July, so let me know when you have some time again. I'll have you over for some audio madness. I played around with the room acoustics last night, and re-wired the system a bit differently, so it sounds even better.

tcfila

05-17-04, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by mikesweeney

(my cable internet has been acting up as of recent. grrrr.)

Is your problem consisting of getting page cannont be displayed VERY often? If it is and they haven't fixed it, let me know. I had the same problem have gotten it resolved by changing some dns settings.

Tim

4113

05-17-04, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by abcward
How does that work exactly?

Example:

Today, you could walk into The Sound Room or other select local stores and purchase a DCP-501 (although they will do their best to up sell you out of that unit) or purchase one on the internet (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=dcp-501%2Bcost) (Don't be discourages about the cheap pricing these days, they are great units, it's just the DCP-501's are really cheap now with the newer units coming out)

You would take the unit home, connect it, then call Charter with the "GI number" on the unit (GI1234ABC567). The "GI Number" is used to activate the STB in the system.

Since you own the box, you will not be charged a normal lease fee on that unit.

BTW, You cannot purchase DCT-2000, DCT-5100, DCT-6200 series units. The DCP series is the only unit available by retail.

4113

05-17-04, 03:09 PM

From the website:

"Windows Media Audio and Video 9 Series is a breakthrough set of codecs that enables multichannel audio and high definition (HD) video at resolutions up to 1080p. See high definition in action for yourself. Download samples of HD content in 720p and 1080p"

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

Mr_Bester

05-17-04, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by 4113
Example:

Today, you could walk into The Sound Room or other select local stores and purchase a DCP-501 (although they will do their best to up sell you out of that unit) or purchase one on the internet (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=dcp-501%2Bcost) (Don't be discourages about the cheap pricing these days, they are great units, it's just the DCP-501's are really cheap now with the newer units coming out)

You would take the unit home, connect it, then call Charter with the "GI number" on the unit (GI1234ABC567). The "GI Number" is used to activate the STB in the system.

Since you own the box, you will not be charged a normal lease fee on that unit.

BTW, You cannot purchase DCT-2000, DCT-5100, DCT-6200 series units. The DCP series is the only unit available by retail.

Would this be a substitute for those charter subscribers that want to get the rest of our locals in HD?
Dug
(note, I am usually not a fan of charter, but if this would help current charter subs, I'm all for it)

4113

05-17-04, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Bester
Would this be a substitute for those charter subscribers that want to get the rest of our locals in HD?
Dug
(note, I am usually not a fan of charter, but if this would help current charter subs, I'm all for it)

Note that my example is based on the DCP-501 which does not support HD. This summer when the DCP-601 is available, I can see this being a nice option for the additional locals.

mikesweeney

05-17-04, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by tcfila
Is your problem consisting of getting page cannont be displayed VERY often? If it is and they haven't fixed it, let me know. I had the same problem have gotten it resolved by changing some dns settings.

Tim

no, I was just getting speeds about 2/3 less than normal. it's been fixed now, I'm now getting 3mbps.

tcfila

05-17-04, 06:29 PM

You should be getting 3 mbps at the least. I usually am in the 4 to 5 mbps range. I use http://us.mcafee.com/root/genericURL_genericLeftNav.asp?genericURL=/root/speedometer/test_0600.asp&genericLeftNav=/en-us/wrapper/catalog_nav.asp as a speed test.

Robert Simandl

05-17-04, 06:59 PM

Weird... I just tried out that mcafee page. In three tests I got over 3mbps, 25kbps, and 200kbps, from the same PC, within 10 seconds of each other.

DroptheRemote

05-18-04, 01:24 AM

I just wanted to post a reminder that I'm looking to find customers with recent-model Toshiba RPTVs who would be interested in having their sets calibrated. I'm particularly interested in the Toshiba H83, HX83, H93 and HX93 models and am offering a special arrangement for calibration of those sets.

Full details are available at the link below:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3752598#post3752598

Also, for any Illinois-based viewers here, I'm in the process of setting up a calibration tour of Springfield, Champaign, Peoria and Bloomington that will take place in early- or mid-June. I've posted separately about this in the Central Illinois OTA discussion thread, but thought it worth mentioning here for anyone who's located between St. Louis and Springfield.

Contact me via AVS private message for additional details.

jedi35

05-18-04, 05:21 AM

I'm also testing out inn the 4 to 5 meg range, even though I'm paying for the 3 meg service. Cool.

Does anyone here in the St. Louis area have the NEC HT1000 projector. If so, what do you think of the black level? I've seen the Sony HS20 and wasn't very impressed. I know the Sony is an lcd, don't know about the NEC.

ferl

05-18-04, 07:13 AM

Jedi, Try http://www.dslreports.com/stest It seems that the mcafee is 2x the actual speed.

oby

05-18-04, 08:06 AM

Apparently the Dish Network will be adding TNT-HD this week.

Seems like a pretty safe bet Charter won't be adding it , at least at launch.

There are other more pressing HD channels for Charter to add--Discovery HD and the ABC hd feed.

tcfila

05-18-04, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by ferl
Jedi, Try http://www.dslreports.com/stest It seems that the mcafee is 2x the actual speed.

So not true. I just got 3.8 meg/sec

Just used Cnet http://reviews.cnet.com/7004-7254_7-0.html
and got 3.2

duihlein

05-18-04, 09:39 AM

4113,
Do you know if Charter is ready to support the new TV's with CableCard?
I'm hoping this will lead to more options on the DVR front. I would move back to Charter if they did 3 things.

1) Make more HD available
2) Prove they can send 3 HD Streams/Ch without compression artifacts during live and fast motion programing.
3) Support CableCard so I can buy anny device I want anduse it in my media network

* It would also be nice if they duplicated the analog channels in digital.

At that point it will be on manufacturers to provide a DVR with plenty of disk space (250G+), 2 QAM, 1+ ATSC and IEEE 1394 for archiving.

Dave

4113

05-18-04, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by duihlein
4113,
Do you know if Charter is ready to support the new TV's with CableCard?
I'm hoping this will lead to more options on the DVR front. I would move back to Charter if they did 3 things.

1) Make more HD available
2) Prove they can send 3 HD Streams/Ch without compression artifacts during live and fast motion programing.
3) Support CableCard so I can buy anny device I want anduse it in my media network

* It would also be nice if they duplicated the analog channels in digital.

At that point it will be on manufacturers to provide a DVR with plenty of disk space (250G+), 2 QAM, 1+ ATSC and IEEE 1394 for archiving.

Dave

Ready or not, it is an FCC requirement for manufacturers and cable operators to make Cable Card technology available on July 1, 2004.
I personally tested CableCards in a lab environment last year similar to this one: http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=361. They should be ready...

Additional HD is in the hands of Corporate and the locals. Last I remember, the Corporate office was dictating all HD negotiations with the locals in the different markets.

As far as proving 3:1 compression... The manufacturers have already tested units such as the DM6400. No operator would invest in this equipment if it was not working up to specification.

The test is in the cable plant itself. Remember, the areas with HD have been upgraded so I am sure 3:1 will not be a problem.

Most people think that the cable plant today is the same as it was in 1980. There are major differences that increase the realiability and quality. Besides, "the Four Nines" (99.99) are a standard of reliability in cable plants with telephony. Charter is well on its way to launching telephony metro wide so local subscribers will experience some of the best network reliability in the country.

Twenty...heck...even ten years ago, cable plants were coax from headend to TV. It consisted of miles and miles of coax trunk and feeder, amplifiers, bridger's, power supplies and more. It was a maintenance nightmare.

Today, in the hybrid fiber coax plant, there is fiber from the headend to the node in your neighborhood (each serving up top 500 homes). The final run is a short jump via coax feeder, maybe an amp or two, to your service drop, the interior outlet and then to your TV.

If you live in an upgraded area, you can consider that the headend is now transported to your back door at the speed of light with practically no degradation of signal.

I am sure many things have changed since you have been a cable customer. I can tell you that many PQ issues are not as plant related as they used to be. Typically it is home wiring, STB's, or other issues. These issues would more likely cause the PQ issues that you are concerned about.

Statistical multiplexing itself works... no worries.

abcward

05-18-04, 12:13 PM

4113,

thanks again for all your cable insight. Personally, as a Charter customer I really value your posts.

Tomorrow I will be getting Charter's telephony service installed. I hear many good things about it and its saving me a TON of money. Any tricks or suggestions with it?

I think I may call Charter today to check on my cable channels and the pricing. I currently have digital cable and HD service with HBO/Sho/C-Max, but no Starz/Encore. I'm wondering with having the highest cable internet, telephony, and cable tv that its probably not much more to add those 2 premium channels. [I wish Charter would just post pricing on their website like DirecTV and Dish does].

Looking forward to Charter PVR !! It'll be like Christmas in June...

jedi35

05-18-04, 01:46 PM

Wasn't there someone here who said he was getting Charter analog, digital, all the premium channels, and pipeline for about $75/month? Now, that's a deal I'd love to have. I can't remember if HD was included.

4113

05-18-04, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by abcward

Tomorrow I will be getting Charter's telephony service installed. I hear many good things about it and its saving me a TON of money. Any tricks or suggestions with it?

I wish Charter would just post pricing on their website like DirecTV and Dish does.

No suggestions, tricks, cracks, hacks, etc with the telephony. It's the same dial tone your are getting now from your current telco provider, the difference is the delivery in the "last mile". Be prepared to provide an AC outlet for an LPSU (Local Power Supply Unit). The phone company sends voltage via twisted pair. Because the cable plant in St Louis is not powered, an LPSU is required to provide the voltage: 24 volts off hook, 48 volts on hook, and 90+/- volts ringing voltage.

I know people who are saving HUGE cabbage on cable telephony. Most can get multiple lines, such as a main line, business line, fax line, and a line for their kids, some for 1/3 to 1/2 of what they were paying SBC for a single local line.

You should call today and see what you can get in a package for all three lines of service: television , telephony and internet.

Regarding pricing on websites...

It is easy for Satellite providers to post pricing on their website because they have nationwide pricing for a nationwide signal. Maybe this will change with spot beam services...(anybody have details?). On the other hand, cable systems are usually made up of smaller systems that have been acquired over the years and have had different pricing.

Look at St. Louis for example: The local operator is made up of the former Continental, TCI, AT&T, Charter and others. As these systems were acquired into what you know today, they had different cable plants, channel lineups, franchise agreements, pricing, etc. Posting pricing online would have been a problem. Just word of mouth alone made some people frustrated. Two people, say one from north county and one from south county, would compare their subscriptions and one would find he is paying more for less variety.

Eventually, cable companies started making deals, trading systems, etc. to take over entire metro areas. This makes better business sense. This is exactly why AT&T Broadband left St. Louis. Charter gave them systems in Florida and AT&T gave Charter the St. Louis Market (not including the Cable America overbuild in Maryland Heights). Of course there was cash in the deal too, but I do not remember the exact details.

A metro wide acquisition allows cable operators to upgrade the area and align the pricing, channels lineups, and advanced services. Charter has made a huge effort at this.

I still would not expect the pricing to be posted on any website, but it does help to make pricing more consistent, excluding any specials that may be available.

abcward

05-18-04, 01:56 PM

thanks 4113 - that makes perfect sense!

redwine

05-19-04, 12:02 AM

This forum is becoming awfully Charter friendly lately. Remember Charter is still behind more progressive cable companies especially in its HD offerings. I still think cable companies are somewhat monopolies that need a good dose of regulation. Greed is the motivator and it does not usually result in consumer innovations.

4113

05-19-04, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by redwine
This forum is becoming awfully Charter friendly lately. Remember Charter is still behind more progressive cable companies especially in its HD offerings. I still think cable companies are somewhat monopolies that need a good dose of regulation. Greed is the motivator and it does not usually result in consumer innovations.

I agree that Charter has room for improvement in HD but I disagree with the last sentence of your post...

The cable industry is far ahead in innovation, greed or not.

abcward

05-19-04, 08:20 AM

I was a previous Dishnet customer before I moved to our current home in March 2003. I was very happy with Dish the previous 5+ years. When we moved we switched to Charter because of high speed internet. I too was one of the 'ill never go back to Charter' people, but reluctantly did so.

However I have found that Charter has improved in the last few years. I have compared pricing literally channel by channel and Charter is cheaper. I realize that Charter may have a couple holes in their HD lineup but it isnt many. And Charter has HD locals without messing with antennas and the issues that come with that. I suspect that they will fill those HD holes in the near future too. Video On-Demand is a pretty enjoyable feature also.

And again, with Charter digital cable, internet and telephony services I am saving LARGE amounts of money each month over my previous charges. And honestly, very satisfied with their service.

No, I am not a paid employee of Charter. Yes, sometimes I am frustrated by not having every channel immediately when they are available. But I have to admit that I am satified with Charter at this time. I understand satellite customers and their disdane for Charter but some things have been improved by Charter and I feel that people need to hear that information as well... and hear it from a former dish customer.

Just my 2 pennies....

wilkemp

05-19-04, 09:28 AM

Since yesterday my HD channels have been screwed up. ESPN is now on
D-KMOV channel which is now completely gone. I have also lost HBO-HD because that is now HDNet and HDNet is SHO-HD, ESPN shows channel should be available shortly. The guide hasn't changed its listing, anyone else having this?

abcward

05-19-04, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by wilkemp
Since yesterday my HD channels have been screwed up. ESPN is now on
D-KMOV channel which is now completely gone. I have also lost HBO-HD because that is now HDNet and HDNet is SHO-HD, ESPN shows channel should be available shortly. The guide hasn't changed its listing, anyone else having this?

I just checked all my HD channels - they are all working and where they should be.

4113

05-19-04, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by wilkemp
Since yesterday my HD channels have been screwed up. ESPN is now on
D-KMOV channel which is now completely gone. I have also lost HBO-HD because that is now HDNet and HDNet is SHO-HD, ESPN shows channel should be available shortly. The guide hasn't changed its listing, anyone else having this?

Wilkemp,

Call 636-207-7011 and tell them your channel map is wrong. Ask them to refresh the box. You can give them the "GI" number that is on the box to expedite the process.

tcfila

05-19-04, 10:43 AM

4113,

I am confused on my bill and hope you can shed some light. I've called CS and they really don't know.

05/20 - 06/19 BIGGEST VALUE PACKAGE $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 BASIC $5.00
05/20 - 06/19 EXPANDED $34.04
05/20 - 06/19 HD HBO $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 FAMILY CHOICE TIER $4.00
05/20 - 06/19 DIGITAL RECEIVER SERVICE $3.85
05/20 - 06/19 REMOTE CONTROL - DIGITAL $0.11
05/20 - 06/19 INTERACTIVE INTEGRATED SERVICE $2.99
05/20 - 06/19 HDPAK W/HDNET(MOVIES&ENTERTAINMENT) $3.99
05/20 - 06/19 HD INTEGRATED INTERACTIVE SERVICE $3.00
05/20 - 06/19 VIDEO ON DEMAND SERVICES $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 MSN INTERACTIVE E - MAIL $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 CUSTOMER OWNED MODEM $0.00

My question is what do the following do?
DIGITAL RECEIVER SERVICE $3.85
INTERACTIVE INTEGRATED SERVICE $2.99
HD INTEGRATED INTERACTIVE SERVICE $3.00

I think one of these is the box rental, but what are the others?

Thanks for your help, you are a great asset to the forum.
Tim

abcward

05-19-04, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by tcfila
4113,

I am confused on my bill and hope you can shed some light. I've called CS and they really don't know.

05/20 - 06/19 BIGGEST VALUE PACKAGE $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 BASIC $5.00
05/20 - 06/19 EXPANDED $34.04
05/20 - 06/19 HD HBO $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 FAMILY CHOICE TIER $4.00
05/20 - 06/19 DIGITAL RECEIVER SERVICE $3.85
05/20 - 06/19 REMOTE CONTROL - DIGITAL $0.11
05/20 - 06/19 INTERACTIVE INTEGRATED SERVICE $2.99
05/20 - 06/19 HDPAK W/HDNET(MOVIES&ENTERTAINMENT) $3.99
05/20 - 06/19 HD INTEGRATED INTERACTIVE SERVICE $3.00
05/20 - 06/19 VIDEO ON DEMAND SERVICES $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 MSN INTERACTIVE E - MAIL $0.00
05/20 - 06/19 CUSTOMER OWNED MODEM $0.00

My question is what do the following do?
DIGITAL RECEIVER SERVICE $3.85
INTERACTIVE INTEGRATED SERVICE $2.99
HD INTEGRATED INTERACTIVE SERVICE $3.00

I think one of these is the box rental, but what are the others?

Thanks for your help, you are a great asset to the forum.
Tim

Here is the message on my bill below the details of my account:

"Digital Receiver Service includes: digital receiver ($3.85), remote($0.11) & the integrated interactive services fee ($4.99) delivering the integrated guide, music, PPV or VOD. The combined monthly rate of $8.95 for the first & $6.95 for each additional digital receiver service."

So, I believe the first two items in question are for your Digital [non-HD] receiver and the last one is for your HD box/services.

BTW, your pricing is the same as mine so I think everything is ok.

tcfila

05-19-04, 11:16 AM

I only have 1 box (HD) and we don't have VOD in my area yet.

abcward

05-19-04, 11:32 AM

sounds like you are getting charged for a second receiver that you dont have - i'd call them.

tcfila

05-19-04, 12:08 PM

I have....quite a few times...and I get a different BS answer every time.

tcfila

05-19-04, 12:16 PM

Sorry for being Off Topic.....

How does your phone bill compare to this
Non-Basic Service
05/10 - 06/09 CALL WAITING AND CALLER ID $0.00
05/10 - 06/09 5 FEATURE PACK FEATURES $0.00
05/10 - 06/09 5 FEATURE PACK SERVICE $0.00
05/10 - 06/09 BASIC TELEPHONE LINE $17.95
05/10 - 06/09 MCA 4 CALLING PLAN $12.00
05/10 - 06/09 ANONYMOUS CALL REJECTION $0.00
05/10 - 06/09 CALLER ID $0.00
05/10 - 06/09 CALL WAITING $0.00
05/10 - 06/09 SPEED DIAL 8 $0.00
Sub Total $29.95

Taxes & Fee(s)
05/10 End User Common Primary Line Charge $5.00
05/03 Sales Tax $2.68
05/10 City License Tax $0.90
05/03 Federal Excise Tax $1.16
05/10 County 911 Charge $0.36
05/10 State Telephone Relay Charge $0.10
05/03 Federal Universal Service Fund $0.61
Sub Total $10.81

abcward

05-19-04, 12:51 PM

we just had telephony installed today, so no bill for that yet

4113

05-19-04, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by tcfila
4113,

I am confused on my bill and hope you can shed some light.

My question is what do the following do?
DIGITAL RECEIVER SERVICE $3.85
INTERACTIVE INTEGRATED SERVICE $2.99
HD INTEGRATED INTERACTIVE SERVICE $3.00

I think one of these is the box rental, but what are the others?

Thanks for your help, you are a great asset to the forum.
Tim

I am not a billing expert, but I have a pretty good understanding...

The first STB is 8.95 and every STB thereafter is 6.95.

Anyway, this is what I see when I read your bill:

This is what you began with (assuming you had digital before your HD):

1 x DIGITAL RECEIVER SERVICE @ $3.85 (charge for standard digital receiver)
1 x REMOTE CONTROL - DIGITAL @ $0.11 (Your remote control)
1 x INTERACTIVE INTEGRATED SERVICE @ $4.99 (which can include TV Guide, PPV, I-TV)
Total $8.95

Then, you added the standard HD tier:
1 x HD INTEGRATED SERVICE @ $3.00 (Fox-DT, KMOV-DT, KSDK-DT, etc.)

You added the HD Net Tier:
1 x HD Pak W/HDNET @ $3.99 (HD-Net & HD-Net Movies)

You are getting HBO-HD free because you subscribe to HBO Digital

As for VOD, if you don't have it now, you will LOVE it when you get it!
There is no monthly charge for VOD service, just a per movie charge on most selections in the "Movies", "Adult" and "More" tabs. If you subscribe to HBO, SHO, STZ, MAX, there are hundreds of movies, specials, series and concerts in those tabs for free, including all those great series on HBO, i.e. Sopranos, Six Feet Under, etc.

The "Kids Unlimited" tab is $4.99/mo for unlimited access to all the kids programming (no more tripping over the kids tapes!)

abcward

05-19-04, 04:06 PM

i agree - we watch more VOD of HBO/Sho/Cinemax/Starz than we do of the 'normal' movie channels themselves.

StLouisRod

05-20-04, 01:50 PM

I just had a Channel Master 4-bay UHF antennae professionally installed in the attic of my ranch home in Florissant, Mo. At the time, PBS (channel 39) was coming in around 20db less than all the other digital stations, but was still just enough to pick up on my 811 and Zenith HDV420 STB's.

Since then, however, the signal has degraded to nearly 1/3rd of that level, and neither box comes close to locking in. None of the other digital channels experienced any signal loss. Could this simply be a problem with PBS not having the funding available to push out enough wattage for the digital station? And if so, why would they have enough one day, but so much less the next :confused: ?

Sandmanvnvmc

05-21-04, 04:36 AM

Sorry it took so long to make a reply to those who welcomed me... but I have spent the last two weeks trying to get my system set up. With the help of charter customer service reps and techs I now know how to put a 9mm to my head and pull the trigger!!!!
Where to start:
Before getting the Moto 6200 box I was assured the fire wire was enabled. The other day I was at Best Buy in Ellisville and they had an open box Mits 1100U for $119.00. So I put down the cash and take the DVHS home. Inside is the Best Buy store demo tape, great something to look at to see how it looks....great picture and sound. So I hook the firewire up and presto The Mits does not recognize there is a connection. So I hook the Mits up to my Samsung T165 presto..works like a charm. So I call Charter (you all know where this is going) after 8 minutes on hold then a tech tells me sorry you reached the cable TV service and for a HDTV box you need to talk to the Charter pipeline folk. That makes sense, I mean I do get a picture on my high-speed net connection so it must be a TV. Another 25 minutes on hold waiting for that tech and I give in and hang up. I call back in the middle of the night and was told the people you need to speak with are only here during the day. Call them the next day and after explaining to the entry level tech she will not be able to take care of my problem (only 15 minutes to convince her after she only understood about 40% of the words I was using) she turned me over to a manage or high level tech, by this time I was looking for a Quaalude and can't be sure what her title was. Right off the bat she says oh yeah I know your problem you must have gotten one of the boxes the firewire has not been enabled. I ask can't that be done with a software upgrade through the stream...of course not. She assures me she will send a tech out the next morning with a replacement 6200 with the firewire enabled.
Do I really need to tell you what happened ..... no the tech showed when he was suppose to, you were thinking they were a no show I bet, says I have your HDTV box to swap out for your digital box..oh oh. I explain the problem and he says he was told only to swap a digital box for the HDTV box. He comes in and is very patient as I run all kinds of test and different hook ups to get the firewire to work. Nothing happens and I ask about making sure this was a "firewire enabled" box. He says they just pull them off the shelves and have no way to know if the firewire works or not. He assures me he will look into it and have someone call me.
This story will be continued when and if someone actually calls me.
Someone asked how I got the 79.99 deal. Well guess what, it is not really 79.99 (surprise) the 79.99 is for digital and pipeline with 3 down and 256 up.. all of the premium movie channels and extended basic. You pick one tier and I picked Showtime instead of MTV 24 & Nick 13. It turns out the HDTV is extra and by the time it is all said and done it will be around $94.00 bucks a month. For less movie channels I was paying Dishnet just under $80.00 a month and that did not include the pipeline. So for no outlay for equipment and a better price (no this is not limited to 90 days) they told me a least one-year. If my 4th month bill comes in crazy I'll spend another 10 hours on the phone to save five bucks (that’s prudent isn't it?).
My wife says do you now remember why you bought a dish when we built this house, she has a point but if I couldn't give the cable folk a hard time what fun would life be?

I will quit rambling and just say

Sandmanvnvmc

05-21-04, 04:42 AM

With all that rambling I forgot my question.
I have heard the that the Mits 1100U is not compatable with the 6200 and I need to get the JVC 30000 or 40000. I hope that's not the case as the price I paid for the Mits makes this time shifting not too expensive until charter puts out the HD PVR.
Anyone know the scoop on that?

sconstan

05-21-04, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Sandmanvnvmc
With all that rambling I forgot my question.
I have heard the that the Mits 1100U is not compatable with the 6200 and I need to get the JVC 30000 or 40000. I hope that's not the case as the price I paid for the Mits makes this time shifting not too expensive until charter puts out the HD PVR.
Anyone know the scoop on that?

Last time I talked to a service rep about it they said July.

DroptheRemote

05-21-04, 11:18 AM

An interesting op-ed piece about the future of the telecom and cable industries can be found in today's Wall Street Journal, written by the CEO of RCN, which is preparing for a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing.

No doubt much of this article reflects a heaping serving of "sour grapes," but a lot of it rings true.

Two particularly on-target excerpts:

* "Having built, bought, or started 10 telecom companies in the last 25 years, I think both Wall Street and Washington overlook the most persistent problem: The cable industry remains in the grip of a monopoly mindset. Despite all the innovation, the surge in new players, and the billions of dollars lost since the passage of the 1996 Telecom Act, cable rates have soared 40% and the industry giants continue to think in terms of how to dominate markets rather than of how to drive innovation..."

* "By contrast, the major cable companies still divide-and-rule territory. When one company buys close to another, the rivals simply exchange geographic service areas, so that each side can expand their local fiefdoms -- the same business model championed by Tony Soprano."

The full article (requires a paid subscription) can be found here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108509359741217460,00.html?mod=todays_us_opinion

DroptheRemote

05-21-04, 01:03 PM

Speaking of competition...I see that there's a post on the AVS HD Programming Forum saying that VOOM was scheduled to be carrying TNT-HD this morning.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=404141

Also, HDTV Magazine just announced this morning that DISH Network is carrying TNT-HD, also beginning today.

It looks like DirecTV will be limping in third among the sats. Here's an opportunity for Charter to make up some lost ground...

SkipD

05-21-04, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Bill787
Cam1-- I sent you a private message earlier this week talking about a "freeze frame" issue that some of us with Zenith and Panasonic receivers have had with 720P from ABC. This was seen in July 2003, and then some slight but unknown change in the 720P data stream cleared the problem until late last month. It's back. We believe this to be a design weakness in our receivers as most folks don't have the problem. As far as I know, Samsung was never suspected of having this weakness. If you are confident this isn't a signal strength problem and it ONLY occurs on DT-31 during network prime time, then you may have joined our unhappy club.

Bill.

I have the same unit (Sir TS-360) and have the same problems with ABC OTA.

So you're saying it's a problem with this and a few other units?
Perhaps we ask Dtv to switch us to the Hughes Model - assuming DTv is aware of the problem.

Thanks,
Skip

Robert Simandl

05-21-04, 02:23 PM

Time Warner Cable just announced today it will be picking up TNT-HD also. Not that it does us any good here in St. Louis, but it shows DirecTV will actually come in FOURTH in the TNT-HD race.

abcward

05-21-04, 02:25 PM

4113,

Will Charter fall in line soon with these others on TNT-HD?

oby

05-21-04, 02:29 PM

It would be nice if Charter offered tnt hd; however, I really hope they add ABC hd, and Discovery hd as well. We (Charter subs) are missing out on lots of HD, without these channels.

jedi35

05-21-04, 02:36 PM

Hey, thanks for the heads up, Doug!! I went and checked right away after reading your post, and saw that I am getting TNT HD on Voom ch.521(they don't seem to be running HD at the moment). Some others have posted in another thread that Charmed was on earlier today in HD, and there should be a big NBA game on tonight in HD. However, it looks like we are promised 24/7 programming in true 1080i or upconverted, including commercials, all in 16:9 and 5.1 sound. Wow.

Also mentioned in another thread was something about a NY el. show in which Voom presented a dvr unit WITH firewire, slated for release at the end of the summer. Anybody know about this?

John Kotches

05-21-04, 03:27 PM

I can confirm Dish having TNT-HD, it was up about 9:30am here on both my 6000 and 811.

Regards,

4113

05-21-04, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Sandmanvnvmc

So I call Charter (you all know where this is going)

Well guess what, it is not really 79.99 (surprise) the 79.99 is for digital and pipeline with 3 down and 256 up..

Sandman,

I am not surprised that nobody could help you with your HD. It is true that the Pipeline reps are taking HD calls exclusively. Somehow management figured that the boxes were too complicated for the regular video reps, so they figured the propeller heads could do better. Even so, training took a backseat at Charter after a guy took over with a sales background. A used car salesman type. Then before you knew it, they had all the layoffs. The few people who knew anything about HD and the boxes are gone too.

If you want some real help, PM me and we can look at a few things together.

As far as the $79.99 package. It is no secret that it does not include HD. What gave you that impression?

4113

05-21-04, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
"By contrast, the major cable companies still divide-and-rule territory. When one company buys close to another, the rivals simply exchange geographic service areas, [/url]

This is true. I just posted a message recently explaining how this played out in St. Louis.

4113

05-22-04, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by abcward
4113,

Will Charter fall in line soon with these others on TNT-HD?

I can see this type of network launching soon. It's similar to the ESPN deal. The locals are where the hang ups are.

abcward

05-22-04, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by 4113
I can see this type of network launching soon. It's similar to the ESPN deal. The locals are where the hang ups are.

Thanks 4113, Any rumors on why Discovery-HD is such a slow go?

redwine

05-22-04, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by 4113
I agree that Charter has room for improvement in HD but I disagree with the last sentence of your post...

The cable industry is far ahead in innovation, greed or not.

4113, are you sure you don't agree that greed is the motivator? Greed is what motivates satellite and cable. Innovation is only a factor when it does not cost too much. The technology revolution is really an evolution. We HD enthusiasts are an experiment. The real money is when the general public buys into the plan. Businessmen rule the world and it sucks.

4113

05-22-04, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by abcward
Thanks 4113, Any rumors on why Discovery-HD is such a slow go?

I have not talked to anyone lately who is involved with that deal, sorry.

4113

05-22-04, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by redwine
4113, are you sure you don't agree that greed is the motivator? Greed is what motivates satellite and cable. Innovation is only a factor when it does not cost too much. The technology revolution is really an evolution. We HD enthusiasts are an experiment. The real money is when the general public buys into the plan. Businessmen rule the world and it sucks.

Great point.

There are several manufacturers and teams of people within the cable co. involved in new product innovation, design and implementation, but your point makes sense to me. The public does have to buy in.

Sandmanvnvmc

05-22-04, 03:39 PM

4113,

I was told 79.99 then add another 6 for all the HD stuff and the extra box, so 85.99 was what I was quoted with free installation. Not only was the 85.99 incorrect but they charged for a HD Kit, HD Installation and an amp, none of which was told to me up front. I don't mind paying for things that are done and agreed to, however, tacking on 75 bucks worth of extras and then adding another 10 bucks to programing is unexcusable. Of course no one can help and the original sales person denies the conversation.

I did not go in blind, I was aware customer service is a word used very little by Charter. I don't agree that greed is the motivator for charter but profit is and all businesses should make a profit.

Hey I found trhe VOD, very nice, watched Black on Broadway last night, might even take up the guitar.

I'll PM you later with the HD question.

Thanks

abcward

05-22-04, 04:14 PM

Did anyone notice the full page advertise for Charter HDTV service in today's Post-Dispatch?

The interesting part was in the bullet points. The point about having local channels in HD including "ABC, FOX widescreen, and NBC".

DroptheRemote

05-22-04, 04:23 PM

ABC looks like it's a typo, as they omitted CBS.

Gotta love that attention to detail!

abcward

05-22-04, 04:23 PM

or its an ad thats run nationally.....

DroptheRemote

05-22-04, 04:32 PM

Could be it's a national ad, but that really doesn't excuse this sort of sloppiness. It's not unreasonable to expect someone in the local Charter marketing organization to know their product and to take responsibility for how it's presented to potential local consumers.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, I thought the Charter-ABC negotiations were taking place at a corporate-to-corporate level.

Are there any Charter markets with ABC locals already?

4113

05-22-04, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Sandmanvnvmc
Of course no one can help and the original sales person denies the conversation.

Hey I found trhe VOD, very nice, watched Black on Broadway last night, might even take up the guitar.

Was it a Direct Salesman? A door to door guy? IF so, I can get you a name that could help, but it's probably too late.

I do want to add that this type of misunderstanding is not foreign to satellite service. I know a lot of people who were told one thing and sold another with all services. It can happen anywhere, but is inexcusable. This message to the group is the timeless and true: "Get it in writing".

I am so glad you are enjoying VOD. This is a gem that most do not know about. Poor marketing by Charter... Most think it is the same as PPV and don't realize there is so much free content. Plus, no driving to the rental store if you do select a paid program.

Don't forget to look at the Mag Rack tab with all free hobby and interest programming...commercial free...always changing.
We love being able to pull up the past 20 or so episodes of the Sopranos and new ones within hours after they first air on Sunday.

4113

05-22-04, 06:34 PM

4113

05-22-04, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Could be it's a national ad, but that really doesn't excuse this sort of sloppiness.

Are there any Charter markets with ABC locals already?

I agree. It is true that most employees there are not educated on their own HD product.

As far as other markets, YES...I know Madison has ABC...and there are others. Ft. Worth could be the best place to be a Charter HD customer though, they have:

ABC
CBS
NBC
Fox
ESPN
HBO
SHO
HD-Net
HD-Net Movies
AND DISCOVERY

and room for two more in the current bandwidth allocation.
Although those local are negotiated on the Corporate level at Charter, they still have to deal with different companies that own the locals in each market. Sad for us and sad for the HD industry.

DroptheRemote

05-22-04, 07:47 PM

I think someone here was recently asking about the schedule for the high-definition test patterns that HDNet runs on a weekly basis. It appears that these are available every Tuesday at 7 a.m. CT.

With the growing availability of HD-PVRs, these HDNet patterns are probably going to gain more exposure and greater interest from viewers looking for an HD substitute for AVIA Guide to Home Theater, Digital Video Essentials, etc.

That's a good thing, in general. However, I thought it worth noting that the HDNet test pattern for overscan is incorrect.

In fact, over the past year or so I've had a couple of sales guys suggest there was an overscan problem after I calibrated different sets on their showroom floors. They based this on their viewing of the HDNet patterns, which used to run a couple times per day.

Unfortunately, I was never around to verify what they were seeing on HDNet's patterns. However, I was able to show them via my own test patterns that overscan was set correctly and not at the 10% overscan that the HDNet pattern was indicating. I was also able to convince them my patterns were correct, as these sets correctly showed the complete side-panel score boxes that HDNet sometime uses for sports programming, such as MLS Soccer.

One of my calibrator colleagues recently captured the HDNet test pattern and has analyzed the reported problem in more detail. I'm including a link below that includes his detailed explanation of the problem.

The shorthand, in-the-ballpark version is that when you view the HDNet overscan pattern you should multiply the top and bottom indications by 0.8, and the right and left edge indicators by 0.5. Or if you were to actually record the pattern and wanted to use it to set overscan for your HD display at around 4%, you would aim for around 5% using the HDNet pattern's top and bottom markers and then aim for 9% using the right and left markers.

Here's a link to the full explanation of the problem as well as a link to a screen capture of the pattern, courtesy of Steve "Cheezmo" Martin of Smart Calibration, LLC.:

http://www.smartcalibration.com/hdnetoverscan.html

tcfila

05-22-04, 09:12 PM

Ok, a little help needed for the newbie...

If I watch the test pattern, I should configure my set so that the edge of the screen is between the 4 and 6 on the top and bottom and between the line and 10 on the sides?

DroptheRemote

05-22-04, 09:54 PM

tcfila,

Yep, you've got it exactly right.

One thing to bear in mind, though, particularly with CRT-based displays. Recentering the picture generally won't have any negative effect on picture integrity. However, if you need to increase or decrease the picture size, you may run into geometry issues where the sides and top edges of the picture will bend or distort. This could require major reworking of picture geometry in order to restore a clean, rectangular shape.

In general, I aim for 4.5% overscan on most sets. Models prior to the x30 Pioneer Elites can't manage even that on the top and bottom -- on those sets 7% is about as good as you can do.

In short, if you're making picture size changes on CRTs, proceed with caution and ensure you aren't trading a minor issue for a major one.

Robert Simandl

05-22-04, 09:58 PM

I would think the corporate-to-corporate negotiations would be between Charter and Sinclair Broadcasting (owner of KDNL), rather than Charter and ABC.

And considering what a pain in the *ss Sinclair was to the process of getting the ANALOG locals on satellite (DirecTV ran a "this space reserved for KDNL, please call and tell them you want KDNL on DirecTV" message instead of KDNL itself the first few months that locals were on), I'll bet KDNL-DT will be the *last* HD local to be carried on Charter.

On a totally unrelated note, I got a letter from Dish Network today telling me my East and West Dishnets (New York and L.A. CBS, NBC, ABC, and Fox) will be shut off within the next two weeks. I was going to cancel Dish anyway once my HD Tivo gets here, so maybe this is Dish's way of preemptively saying "don't let the door hit your *ss on the way out."

jedi35

05-23-04, 01:08 AM

Hi Robert,

In case you haven't heard the good news, Enterprise has been renewed for one more season. However, the bad news is that it will be moved to the Friday night graveyard shift(around 9 or 10pm).

4113,

I live in Fergusen out by the airport, and this area has been wired for Charter digital cable, HD, and pipeline, all of which I have. However, I don't have VOD yet. Is anymore wiring or bandwidth needed? Or is it a matter of Charter pressing a few more buttons or sending out a software upgrade for us? Do you have any idea when VOD might be available for us out here? It sounds way cool.

tcfila

05-23-04, 10:40 AM

Doug,

Thanks for the response. I have all the settings written down before I start tweaking. Is there anything I should look for or any "rules of thumb" to follow?

My set has the following things to change:
V Amp
V Shift
H Ew
H Shift
V Linearity
Upper Linearity
Lower Linearity
V SCO
H Parabola
Upper Corner
Lower Corner
H Trapezium
Bow
Angle
V Position
CXL Left Blk
CXA Right Blk

I'm under the impression its ok to mess with the shifts.

Tim

kwatkins

05-23-04, 10:46 AM

Last word from Charter is July for their DVR. Attached is the box they'll be supplying for this. DVI, Ethernet, USB, no firewire.

Kirk

kwatkins

05-23-04, 10:53 AM

The last word I got from Charter is July for their DVR. It's a Moxi box and here's the manual. DVI, USB, Ethernet, no firewire.

Kirk

tcfila

05-23-04, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by kwatkins
The last word I got from Charter is July for their DVR. It's a Moxi box and here's the manual. DVI, USB, Ethernet, no firewire.

Kirk

And you believe that???? Just kidding, well, not really. Was that from a CSR or an insider?

DroptheRemote

05-23-04, 12:46 PM

Tim,

I'd like to know more about your set, in particular the brand and the specific model number. From some of the parameters you're listing, I'd guess it's a Sony but this isn't really an area where either one of us want to be making these sorts of changes based on a guess.

It might be easier to go over this by phone, so give me a call if you'd like.

4113

05-23-04, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
I would think the corporate-to-corporate negotiations would be between Charter and Sinclair Broadcasting (owner of KDNL), rather than Charter and ABC.

On a totally unrelated note, I got a letter from Dish Network today telling me my East and West Dishnets (New York and L.A. CBS, NBC, ABC, and Fox) will be shut off within the next two weeks.

Correct. Charter and Sincliar will (or hopefully have been) negotiating.

As for the East & West feed, isn't this because of the introduction of spot broadcasting?

4113

05-23-04, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Hi Robert,

I live in Fergusen out by the airport, and this area has been wired for Charter digital cable, HD, and pipeline, all of which I have. However, I don't have VOD yet. Do you have any idea when VOD might be available for us out here? It sounds way cool.

PM me with your address and I see what I can find.

tcfila

05-23-04, 01:27 PM

Doug,

It is a samsung HCN5527W.

Thanks for any guidance you can give.
Tim

DroptheRemote

05-23-04, 01:58 PM

Tim,

H Shift and V Shift will allow you to center your picture, horizontally and vertically. This won't be useful if you need to reduce the overall percentage of overscan, but it will allow you to move the picture so that overscan is evenly distributed at top/bottom and right/left.

Based on the HDNet pattern, if the total of your top and bottom overscan is 10% or less and if the total of your left/right is 18% or less, you should be able to use the H and V shift parameters to achieve uniform 4-4.5% overscan without any change to picture.

Of course, this overscan amount is based on the actual overscan amount after adjusting for the fact that HDNet pattern is incorrect, as explained in my note Saturday on this topic.

On the other hand, if you're exceeding either of the top/bottom or right/left totals, you may want to slightly reduce the H Size and V Size parameters. If you are just slightly off the target totals (2% or less), it's probably not a problem to adjust with the Size parameters, but do proceed deliberately and watch carefully to see if the picture shape changes dramatically.

If it's more than the totals I noted, I'd leave sizing alone and just be happy with getting your picture centered.

Sorry that I can't be of more help, but I haven't calibrated any Samsung CRT sets, as they have a reputation of being notoriously difficult to work with (particularly in the area of geometry and convergence) and, more to the point, I just don't receive enough Samsung CRT calibration inquiries to make it worth the effort to tackle the learning curve for them.

On the other hand, I've done a number of Samsung DLPs recently and they're both straightforward and malleable.

redwine

05-23-04, 02:00 PM

4113

If everybody in my neighborhood was watching a different VOD movie would there be a bandwidth capacity problem?

tcfila

05-23-04, 02:08 PM

Thanks Doug I appreciate your insight. I will mess with some things later today.

Tim

DroptheRemote

05-23-04, 08:06 PM

Tim,

Let me know how it goes for you.

abcward

05-23-04, 10:26 PM

I just turned on the Cards/Cubs game on ESPN-HD in the 8th inning. Is it me, or is this NOT HD in any way? Looks like garbage.

I checked espn's listing and it says it should be HD, but that's not what i'm seeing...

4113

05-23-04, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by redwine
4113

If everybody in my neighborhood was watching a different VOD movie would there be a bandwidth capacity problem?

In the short answer: No

But you get my blood pumping with question like this!

There are three factor that can must be considered:
- number of streams per server
- the number of homes per node
- and the maximum number of customers who access the system at a time

The way the modern cable plant is engineered, it is not a problem. With a maximum of 500 homes per node, and equipment like the Mediahawk On Demand Server (http://www.ccur.com/vod_solutions_hardware.asp?s3=1) (which is what is being used here), you would not have a problem.

I am sure you are thinking of the days of the old SBC ads where the parents woke their kids up in the middle of the night to do their internet research because they would not have to "share bandwidth with their neighbors"...ugh! SBC was sued, and they lost. (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA178724?display=Top+Stories) They were forced to pull those ads off the air because it just is not true.

You are on a fiber optic node (http://www.sciatl.com/customers/Source/744482.pdf) with about 500 other homes (most can actually handle about 900, but most cable operators max at 500 per). Even then, it is never running at capacity because only a percentage of those homes are even utilizing their bandwidth intensive services at the same time. Even if all homes were running services simultaneously, it would handle it fine.

Then you have the Mediahawk On Demand Server. There are various models that can handle anywhere from 250 streams (in a desktop model) to over 1000 in the large systems being used in cable headends. Then, a cable operator can run as many servers needed to handle the demand.

Here is a link to the typical network architecture for VOD systems for everyone to chew on.
http://www.ccur.com/images/OnDemandDiagramLarge.jpg

Hope this clarifies somewhat...or maybe sparks some conversation here!

Kurt K

05-23-04, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by abcward
I just turned on the Cards/Cubs game on ESPN-HD in the 8th inning. Is it me, or is this NOT HD in any way? Looks like garbage.

I checked espn's listing and it says it should be HD, but that's not what i'm seeing... I agree, the game didn't look "right" to me either. I was watching on DirecTV.

DroptheRemote

05-23-04, 11:37 PM

I checked earlier in the week and the Cards-Cubs wasn't scheduled for HD. I think that ESPN is currently focusing its HD resources toward the NBA, so I think it will be a month or so before Sunday Night Baseball returns in HD.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index

abcward

05-24-04, 12:37 AM

TitanTV had it listed as HD but obviously they were wrong.

FYI - espn.com shows that the next Cards HD telecast is July 5th vs. the Reds.

jdiehl

05-24-04, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by redwine
This forum is becoming awfully Charter friendly lately. Remember Charter is still behind more progressive cable companies especially in its HD offerings.

Greetings from Florida. :cool:

Trust me, there are far worse cable companies out there. I've been in Tampa a month and I'm already missing Charter a little. Here, Brighthouse Networks has no ESPN-HD, no HDNET, no HDNET Movies, and worst of all no NBC-DT local on their digital service (thankfully I can pull it in with my antenna though). Oh well, at least they have PVR's already available, and the weather's not too shabby either. ;)

Still lurking for the in-laws and family in STL ...

jedi35

05-24-04, 03:18 AM

Jeopardy Game Show, Category:Techno Wizards

"For $500, name a person who is a living encyclopedia of info concerning Charter Cable in St. Louis..."

Answer: "Who is...4113!!"

(did I do that right?)

John Kotches

05-24-04, 07:44 AM

Doug,

Wrigley Field has HD Cameras set up for WGN-HD, which is broadcasting all Cubs (and Sox) games that they broadcast in HD.

Cheers,

DroptheRemote

05-24-04, 07:59 AM

John,

I had heard about the WGN HD broadcasts. At one point there apparently was some discussion about providing the WGN feed to KPLR (both owned by Tribune) for Cards-Cubs games, but the way the schedule for these series worked out this year (KPLR only does the Saturday and Sunday games), it doesn't look like there's going to be any opportunity to do that.

Someone else mentioned TitanTV listing the Sunday night game in HD. TitanTV is a great resource and I have my personal guide configured to show me only the HD programming available through OTA and DirecTV. However, one thing that I've noticed, is that Titan's HD indicator works on auto-pilot rather than someone going and checking to see if a specific program is in HD.

For example, because NBC shows "ER" in HD on Thursday nights, the syndicated weekend repeats of "ER" are also indicated as being in HD, which I'm pretty sure they are not. I think a variation of that explains what happened here -- because Sunday Night Baseball is normally in HD, the program that manages the scheduling assumes that this week's game would get the HD treatment.

Still, Titan works pretty well as a customized HD scheduling guide.

Another more proactively edited source for HD programming is the HDTV Magazine, available via subscription and eMailed directly to subscribers each day. The problem with the HDTV Magazine guide is that it's burdened with useless graphics, lengthy not very useful program descriptions and at 20-25 printed pages isn't really portable. HDTV Magazine does have an online grid and has also started publishing weekly round-ups of upcoming programming, such as all of the HD sports programming scheduled for the next week.

abcward

05-24-04, 10:08 AM

4113,

Check your PM's - you got a rant from me...

:rolleyes:

GlendaleHDTV

05-24-04, 11:36 AM

I seem to remember seeing preliminary pricing with respect to what Charter was expected to charge for their Moxi HD-PVR that is going to roll out this year (rumored to be July). Right now, I think I'm paying $9.95 for the equipment, listed on my bill as:

Digital Receiver Service - $3.85
Remote Control - Digital - $.11
HD Integrated Interactive Service - $3.00
Interactive Integrated Service - $2.99

Anyone (4113?) know what the pricing will look like for the PVR?

4113

05-24-04, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by abcward
4113,

Check your PM's - you got a rant from me...

:rolleyes:

Got it and replied. Let me know how it turns out.

4113

05-24-04, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
I seem to remember seeing preliminary pricing with respect to what Charter was expected to charge for their Moxi HD-PVR that is going to roll out this year (rumored to be July). Right now, I think I'm paying $9.95 for the equipment, listed on my bill as:

Digital Receiver Service - $3.85
Remote Control - Digital - $.11
HD Integrated Interactive Service - $3.00
Interactive Integrated Service - $2.99

Anyone (4113?) know what the pricing will look like for the PVR?

• No equipment to buy
• Up to 50 hours of recording
• $9.99 monthly service fee

mikesweeney

05-24-04, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by 4113
• No equipment to buy
• Up to 50 hours of recording
• $9.99 monthly service fee

is that service fee going to include HD service or is that just a fee for the box every month?

abcward

05-24-04, 01:30 PM

yea i have the same question: If i am replacing my current HD receiver for a Moxi, how much more per month will i be paying? Since I am already charged for that box, I assume those fees will go away....

tcfila

05-24-04, 01:35 PM

Doug,

My TV is weird. I've noticed a few things.

When watching SD programming on HD channels:

When the channel stretches a program, the picture doesn't fill the TV.

When the channel crops to 4:3, the bars on the left and right are different sizes. This leads me to believe that I need to shift the H so that they are even. But the strange thing is that on different channels, it isn't in the same position.

When I get everything centered, then the HD broadcasts aren't set up. I was watching the MLS game yesterday on HDNet and the score box is 1/2 way off the screen. So I shift it so that it is perfect. Then I'm back to the problem of the 4:3 is not centered.

I did have to alter the geo a little as the the upper and lower corners weren't straight and did have to increase the verticle size to fill the screen.

Let me know if I totally confused you.

Tim

GlendaleHDTV

05-24-04, 03:11 PM

For those of you interested in first impressions on the Moxi Box, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=393360&highlight=moxi

One of the things I found interesting is the post from Moxiguy (an apparent Moxi insider) who indicates that DVI is not currently supported, but will be later this year.

DroptheRemote

05-24-04, 03:28 PM

Tim,

I think I follow what you're saying.

Do you have access to the HDNet patterns? If not, it is going to be difficult to know where you stand in terms of centering and overscan. Even though the HDNet overscan pattern is incorrect, it is at least consistently incorrect and by applying the adjustment I detailed on Sunday can be used as a reasonably reliable guide -- the way the various channels in town are sending out their HD programs in 4x3 and various stretch modes are most likely not reliable.

FWIW, I believe the HDNet test patterns will air tomorrow at 7 a.m.

It is worth looking at the overscan pattern from two specific standpoints -- first, what are the overscan markers showing at each edge; and second, are the boxes in the pattern a consistent size all around the screen.

I suspect that you probably have some sizing issues, but you won't know for sure until you have a pattern you can use as a reference.

Also, be aware that there are probably different geometry controls for HD and SD and these would need to be adjusted separately for each viewing mode. Again, I'm not familiar enough with Samsungs to know how those are organized on your set, but it might be worth checking to see if the values you're seeing are different when you enter service mode from a standard-definition source (NTSC or DVD) and high-definition.

tcfila

05-24-04, 04:54 PM

I was planning on looking at it tomorrow. I will let you know how it comes out.

Thanks,
Tim

dweebe

05-24-04, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by GlendaleHDTV
For those of you interested in first impressions on the Moxi Box, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=393360&highlight=moxi

One of the things I found interesting is the post from Moxiguy (an apparent Moxi insider) who indicates that DVI is not currently supported, but will be later this year.

Thanks GlendaleHDTV. I started that thread but hadn't checked back on it in a while.

4113

05-24-04, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by mikesweeney
is that service fee going to include HD service or is that just a fee for the box every month?

Hmm. Good question. We would have better luck asking folks in the threads that have the box already than to ask any reps today. Anyone know where to find the Rochester, Minnesota area threads?

4113

05-24-04, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Jeopardy Game Show, Category:Techno Wizards

"For $500, name a person who is a living encyclopedia of info concerning Charter Cable in St. Louis..."

Answer: "Who is...4113!!"

(did I do that right?)

LOL...thank you but I have to say, It takes all of us on this board. There is more knowledge combined on this board than any place I know!

redwine

05-25-04, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by 4113
In the short answer: No

But you get my blood pumping with question like this!

There are three factor that can must be considered:
- number of streams per server
- the number of homes per node
- and the maximum number of customers who access the system at a time

The way the modern cable plant is engineered, it is not a problem. With a maximum of 500 homes per node, and equipment like the Mediahawk On Demand Server (http://www.ccur.com/vod_solutions_hardware.asp?s3=1) (which is what is being used here), you would not have a problem.

4113...are you telling me that Charter invested in one Mediahawk "node" system for every 500 customers or 500 potential customers? Either way this would seem to be a significant investment for VOD which doesn't currently seem to return much income. Are there future plans? I always thought VOD would be a movie junkie heaven if the available library was large enough. Remember the commercials where "every movie ever made" was available 24 hours per day.?

4113

05-25-04, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by redwine
4113...are you telling me that Charter invested in one Mediahawk "node" system for every 500 customers or 500 potential customers? Either way this would seem to be a significant investment for VOD which doesn't currently seem to return much income. Are there future plans? I always thought VOD would be a movie junkie heaven if the available library was large enough. Remember the commercials where "every movie ever made" was available 24 hours per day.?

One fiber optic node per 500 homes is a typical specification.
There can be several Mediahawks to serve a metro area.

Over 70% of the revenue in PPV and VOD is in the adult titles.

I don't remember the commercials, whose were they?

GlendaleHDTV

05-25-04, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by 4113
Hmm. Good question. We would have better luck asking folks in the threads that have the box already than to ask any reps today. Anyone know where to find the Rochester, Minnesota area threads?

Someone on the Moxi thread I referenced previously indicates that its $10 per month...HD service is extra

So I'm assuming (big mistake, I know) that it would be $10 plus $3 for the HD service (not including the HD tier). Right now I pay $6.95 plus $3 for HD, so I'm thinking my bill goes up roughly $3/month.

DroptheRemote

05-25-04, 09:19 AM

Here's a thread where some intrepid soul has indexed all of the local OTA threads by city. An amazing undertaking, I think.

If anyone finds this useful, be sure to drop the author a note expressing your gratitude and/or undying respect... :cool:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?

StLouisRod

05-25-04, 10:45 AM

Alright Jim, what is going on with the ABC high-def OTA feed? I was flipping channels last night on my trusty Zenith HDV420 OTA box and noticed "A Beautiful Mind" was on ABC in high-def.

I immediately got horrible flashbacks when I noticed the image was "stutter framing", which continued into the SD commercials as well. This used to happen in the past, but I thought it was remedied. What happened?

Toeside

05-25-04, 11:08 AM

I'm new to HD, I've had my DirecTV HD DVR for a couple weeks now, but most of that time I was out of town.

Can anyone point me to a resource indicating at what power each of the STL locals are broadcasting? I'm asking because KETC signal strength bounces, and I'd like to know if it's too strong, or too weak. FYI, I'm using a Zenith Silver Sensor in my attic for now. In Aug/Sept when the new house is finished, I'll mount a different antenna in the attic.

I have more questions, but we'll start there. :)

Thanks!

Craig

Toeside

05-25-04, 11:16 AM

More.... :)

Since I have DirecTV and I'm new to HD, I went ahead and added the HD package (for now anyway). PQ on Discovery HD is amazing. It's like glass if that makes any sense.

However, most of what we watch is OTA--shows like CSI, Law & Order, Alias, etc. Some of these shows have great PQ, others have fuzzy...or maybe the correct word is soft. There are times I'm watching a show and the PQ seems to get better--either I'm getting used to, and ignoring, the "fuzz" or maybe the network "flipped the switch" to fix what I was seeing.

Without going back and reading the pages and pages of previous months of STL posts, can someone explain to me what I should expect to see when watching OTA HD Programs? I've see the term "flip the switch" here sometimes--in the context that a network will turn something on mid-broadcast or something.

Sorry for the newbie posts, but I'm learning here. :)

Craig

BradZ

05-25-04, 12:05 PM

Toeside,

There are several issues at play here in terms of picture quality. If the show is supposed to be in HD and our local affiliate is indeed passing the HD feed through (they remember to flip the switch)- then the PQ difference you most often see will be Film vs. HDvideo.

Most dramas and sit-coms and movies are shot on film and then transferred to HD. These things are usually described as being softer or less detailed. Things shot on HDvideo are the things that jump out at you. Things like Leno, Discovery shows, HdNet or PBS documentaries, etc. are usually HDvideo and have that 3d-ness to them.

I'll leave it to someone else to give you the technical details why video and film look different. Also 720p (ABC) vs 1080i (CBS,HDnet,Discovery, etc.) have their different attributes. I think the thing you are noticing most is the video vs. film.

There are some shows that aren't available in HD and those will look soft and blurry compared to true HD. I assume you can pick these out yourself.

Toeside

05-25-04, 01:25 PM

Brad,

Thanks, I think you nailed it. There is a big difference between Law & Order (any of the 3) and The Tonight Show. I guess that difference is Film vs HDVideo.

Now on to the "flipping the switch" issues. What does this look like? If the "switch isn't flipped" does that result in pillar-boxed signal or just degraded 16x9?

Oh, while I'm at it, what do you guys think of the zoom/stretch that KMOV does? Personally, I don't mind it. Have a 2 month old RPTV, I'm still afraid of knowing what I can watch and what I can't without resulting in burn-in. The zoom/stretch that KMOV does is very similar to the Stretch Plus mode on my Mits, which is my prefered way of watching 4:3 content.

Unfortuanately, if I watch 4:3 KSDK/NBC or other Digital OTA stations, I'm stuck with nothing but HD Expand for stretching which looks horrible.

I'd like to see the other locals implement a non-linear stretch for 4:3 content, and have considered contacting them about it (not that it would actually yield results) but I'd like the input of you guys here.

Craig

WRacer

05-25-04, 01:36 PM

STLouisROD,
Nothing was changed. My Samsung showed no problem and no issues at the studio monitoring site on a DTC-100. Maybe a signal strength or multipath problem due to the weather.
Jim

Toeside

05-25-04, 02:22 PM

Jim,

As a newbie here, I'd just like to say thanks for participating on the forum. It's nice to have someone working at the station available to answer our questions. How does KDNL view your participation here?

Are employees of other STL stations helping out here as well?

Craig

Robert Simandl

05-25-04, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Toeside
Brad,

Now on to the "flipping the switch" issues. What does this look like? If the "switch isn't flipped" does that result in pillar-boxed signal or just degraded 16x9?

Oh, while I'm at it, what do you guys think of the zoom/stretch that KMOV does? Personally, I don't mind it. Have a 2 month old RPTV, I'm still afraid of knowing what I can watch and what I can't without resulting in burn-in. The zoom/stretch that KMOV does is very similar to the Stretch Plus mode on my Mits, which is my prefered way of watching 4:3 content.

Unfortuanately, if I watch 4:3 KSDK/NBC or other Digital OTA stations, I'm stuck with nothing but HD Expand for stretching which looks horrible.

I'd like to see the other locals implement a non-linear stretch for 4:3 content, and have considered contacting them about it (not that it would actually yield results) but I'd like the input of you guys here.

Craig

Hey Toeside,

When channel 4 forgets to flip the switch, something that should be real HD (i.e., CSI) will instead be the plain ol' analog signal with the zoom and stretch that they use for non-HD material. Think of the actual HD program looking just like the local inserted commerials, and that's what it looks like when they forget to flip the switch.

Toeside

05-25-04, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Hey Toeside,

When channel 4 forgets to flip the switch, something that should be real HD (i.e., CSI) will instead be the plain ol' analog signal with the zoom and stretch that they use for non-HD material. Think of the actual HD program looking just like the local inserted commerials, and that's what it looks like when they forget to flip the switch.

Thanks. I think I'm getting the picture now (no pun intended). Using KMOV as an example, they have 2 possible feeds to broadcast, the HD feed and the SD feed. The SD feed is going out VHF 4, Cable, SAT locals and 4.1 when the "switch" is off. The HD feed, when available, is only enabled when someone turns it on.

When a show like CSI is on, the "operator" will flip the switch which sends the HD stream over 4.1. At a commercial break, they flip the switch back allowing the localized commercials to air, instead of the national CBS commericals, then flip it again when CSI starts back up. Does this sound about right? This could explain why sometimes the last 30 seconds of a show changes aspect ratio... Is it really a manual process?

This stuff is interesting...

Craig

Robert Simandl

05-25-04, 05:38 PM

Toeside,

Methinks you now have it 100% correct.

BTW, now Ultimate Electronics is telling me the Colorado warehouse is NOT showing the 5/22 HD Tivo order as in stock yet, still "on order." They assured me they will still have enough to cover all preorders "any day now."

Toeside

05-25-04, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Toeside,

Methinks you now have it 100% correct.

BTW, now Ultimate Electronics is telling me the Colorado warehouse is NOT showing the 5/22 HD Tivo order as in stock yet, still "on order." They assured me they will still have enough to cover all preorders "any day now."

Thanks, and I'm sorry to hear about the delay. All the posts about HD makes it hard to have patience.

Craig

redwine

05-25-04, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by 4113
One fiber optic node per 500 homes is a typical specification.
There can be several Mediahawks to serve a metro area.

Over 70% of the revenue in PPV and VOD is in the adult titles.

I don't remember the commercials, whose were they?

4113,,I don't remember whose commercials these were for. Probably one of the telecoms during the bandwidth and dot-com boom. I got burned by this boom. No stock options anymore. Luckily I still have a job in telecom (before it is sent to India like programmers' jobs).

I would pay say $1 to see an old movie like Big Sky on demand. This would take a large library of offerings but I believe the concept could make money. I really don't want to collect all the old movies I like on tape or DVD but would pay a small amount to see them on demand.

tcfila

05-25-04, 09:43 PM

Toeside,

Interesting screen name, what does it mean?

Tim

kwatkins

05-25-04, 09:44 PM

Quest

redwine

05-25-04, 09:45 PM

I just read the most of the MediaHawk VOD website. They talk about HDVOD which means HIGH DEFINITION.... When will Charter offer this? This I would pay for...

redwine

05-25-04, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by kwatkins
Quest

Ah Quest...Do they still exist?

Robert Simandl

05-25-04, 11:00 PM

Yup, I still get my long distance from Qwest.

Toeside

05-26-04, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by tcfila
Toeside,

Interesting screen name, what does it mean?

Tim

It's something that's not quite appropriate any longer. When I joined TivoCommunity in Feb 2002 I had just tried snowboarding, and was trying to get good at it. I was very uncomfortable turning toeside, and would end up in the snow when I tried it. I guess it was having my back to the slope that didn't feel right.

It's not quite appropriate any longer because I haven't snowboarded since March 2003. I had every intention of getting out there his past winter but too many distractions--2nd child born 9/19/2003, put house on market 11/2003, sold house 3/2004, having new house built.... Maybe this winter will be better.

Craig

Toeside

05-26-04, 10:46 AM

This probably isn't the place for this post, but...

How long before all shows available in HD will be broadcasted in 16x9 format in SD? I watched Everybody Loves Raymond for the first time in HD the other night and quickly realized that the studio has to edit that show twice, one for 16x9, and one for Pan & Scan/4:3. What a waste of time! And it's like that for most of the shows that are available in HD. The only one that I can think of that is 16x9 in SD is ER. (I'm not counting HBO shows...)

Craig

Robert Simandl

05-26-04, 11:31 AM

Add the now-canceled ANGEL on the WB to that list, as well as UPN's ENTERPRISE (kind of annoying since the local UPN affiliate only broadcasts the letterboxed SD version on its digital channel as well).

Toeside

05-26-04, 11:57 AM

For Enterprise on UPN, since it's letterboxed SD, does that mean you have a letterboxed image in a pillarboxed signal? UGH!

I'm not getting UPN right now, but I also haven't tried since there's no HD on that channel yet.

Craig

StLouisRod

05-26-04, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by WRacer
STLouisROD,
Nothing was changed. My Samsung showed no problem and no issues at the studio monitoring site on a DTC-100. Maybe a signal strength or multipath problem due to the weather.
Jim

Thanks for checking back, Jim :D. But my signal was around 80% (second strongest I receive), was not fluctuating, and is picked up by a professionally-mounted UHF channel master 4221 in my attic.

I don't believe the stuttering was due to multi-path, since the stuttering was very rhythmic. Smooth for 2 seconds, then stutter, repeat ad infinitum. The sound never stuttered or broke. This is EXACTLY what happened last year during the ABC broadcast of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Didn't ABC show Castaway in HD since then? It was flawless with no stuttering, and THAT was back when I only had a Terk wraparound antennae on my sat dish! What changed since then?

So I think it's definitely something in the digital signal that is confusing my Zenith HDV420.

It would be nice to hear from others with different STB's who could corroborate my experience....

wmschultz

05-26-04, 01:33 PM

I ordered my DirecTV HD Tivo yesterday from Best Buy...It has already shipped. :D

Now I just have to explain to the wife :eek:

tcfila

05-26-04, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Toeside
It's something that's not quite appropriate any longer. When I joined TivoCommunity in Feb 2002 I had just tried snowboarding, and was trying to get good at it. I was very uncomfortable turning toeside, and would end up in the snow when I tried it. I guess it was having my back to the slope that didn't feel right.
Craig

I figured it was something like that...I wakeboard and have a difficult time jumping the wake toeside....Too many faceplants.

Tim

Robert Simandl

05-26-04, 01:54 PM

UPN 46-1 broadcasts 480i in 4x3, so on a 4x3 screen, Enterprise on 46-1 looks almost exactly like Enterprise on analog channel 46.

Best Buy had stock of HD Tivo's yesterday????? DAMN! Ultimate still doesn't have any (though they're still saying "any day now"). And Value Electronics seems to have dropped off the face of the earth -- they haven't shipped any since 5/6.

Toeside

05-26-04, 02:25 PM

Robert, hang in there. UE seems to be a great company, they are much better to deal with than the others (BB and CC).

Does anyone here live near K & N? If so, what antenna are you using? Our house will be complete in about 2 months. Since moving the Silver Sensor to the attic of my in-laws, my reception has been very stable. I want to make sure I do things right the first time in the new house.

Thanks,

Craig

wmschultz

05-26-04, 03:07 PM

I have checked BB website the past two days and they have been available for purchase in the morning and then sold out in the afternoon.

wmschultz

05-26-04, 03:24 PM

I also called D* and got a $175 credit on my account once I activate the receiver. I probably could have gotten more if I didn't have HBO and Showtime free for the next 6 months.

Just ask to speak to Customer Retention, ask them about the credit and they evaluate your account for loyalty (how long you have been a customer) and if you have any late payments.

Robert Simandl

05-26-04, 05:19 PM

As a matter of fact, I'm really close to K & N. My experience won't be much help though, unless you're building a in a valley like where I am. I have an 8-foot Yagi towering ten feet over my roof because the indoor antenna didn't pick up diddley squat.

A friend of mine who lives farther out gets beautiful reception with a yagi in his attic because his altitude is higher than mine.

WRacer

05-26-04, 07:02 PM

StLouisRod,
I have started having problems at my house also...due to the weather. The receivers at the studio (3 different manufacturers) show no problem.

Toeside,
Yes, other stations monitor this forum. I find participation in the form very valuable in diagnosing problems. The more eyes in different locations with different receivers, the better.
Jim

Toeside

05-26-04, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
As a matter of fact, I'm really close to K & N. My experience won't be much help though, unless you're building a in a valley like where I am. I have an 8-foot Yagi towering ten feet over my roof because the indoor antenna didn't pick up diddley squat.

A friend of mine who lives farther out gets beautiful reception with a yagi in his attic because his altitude is higher than mine.

Robert,

I haven't really paid attention to elevation. I think I better take a look just to be sure. We are building just east of K on the north side of N. Anyone familiar with the area probably knows the subdivision. :)

Hopefully an antenna mounted in the attic will suffice. I'm considering the Winegard Square Shooter, which can also be moved outside if necessary.

Craig

Robert Simandl

05-26-04, 09:46 PM

Hey Craig,

We're gonna be neighbors. I also live on the North side of N, probably a bit farther East than you, off of Weiss Road.

Hey Jedi,

Now that the season finale of Enterprise is on the ReplayTV, I'll have a stereo DVD-R for ya soon. I wasn't here during the broadcast, HOPEFULLY there wasn't rain fade during the tornado warning! Guess I'll find out as I start to edit the commercials....

redwine

05-26-04, 10:11 PM

Craig,

When you figure out the antenna let me know. I live a few miles west of K on highway N and I am about ready to dump Charter for VOOM and I will need a good antenna for locals. I think we are about the same elevation since it is a straight and flat drive to K from here.

Toeside

05-26-04, 11:05 PM

Robert and redwine,

Looks like I'll be between both of you. We'll be just east of K on N, practically on the O'Fallon/Cottleville line.

BTW, our house is at the drywalling stage. There is RG6 Quad coiled and waiting in the attic. The house should be ready in August. If any of you figure out the right antenna for the area, let me know.

Craig

HiDefFan

05-27-04, 11:58 AM

Has Fox started to broadcast true HD?
I caught American Idol last night on Charter and it looked like true HD.

abcward

05-27-04, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by HiDefFan
Has Fox started to broadcast true HD?
I caught American Idol last night on Charter and it looked like true HD.

Yea, it looked good to me too, at least the 3-4 total minutes that I watched it. Not my cup of tea.... I have little children in my house that sing better than most of the top 12 did this year. Sound was in 5.1 from what I could tell too.

All of my Charter channels were not happy about the storms last night. No total outages but many hiccups during the worst downpours.

SkipD

05-27-04, 01:22 PM

Re: KDNL Breakup

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WRacer
STLouisROD,
Nothing was changed. My Samsung showed no problem and no issues at the studio monitoring site on a DTC-100. Maybe a signal strength or multipath problem due to the weather.
Jim

Originally posted by StLouisRod
Thanks for checking back, Jim :D. But my signal was around 80% (second strongest I receive), was not fluctuating, and is picked up by a professionally-mounted UHF channel master 4221 in my attic.

I don't believe the stuttering was due to multi-path, since the stuttering was very rhythmic. Smooth for 2 seconds, then stutter, repeat ad infinitum. The sound never stuttered or broke. This is EXACTLY what happened last year during the ABC broadcast of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Didn't ABC show Castaway in HD since then? It was flawless with no stuttering, and THAT was back when I only had a Terk wraparound antennae on my sat dish! What changed since then?

So I think it's definitely something in the digital signal that is confusing my Zenith HDV420.

It would be nice to hear from others with different STB's who could corroborate my experience....

I have a Samsung Sir TS-360 and have been seeing the same "fluttering" on ABC HD broadcasts. I think the 1st time I noticed it was 6th Sense. I replaced a Sir T-151 which had no problems. (I may plug it back in to recheck since I've not gotten round to posting the 151 on eBay...)
Since I got the 360 from DTV if the problem lies with the unit and not with local broadcast I may be able to get them to give me the Hughes unit.

Interested in hearing more about this.

Skip
(Arnold area)

_Arklyte_

05-27-04, 01:36 PM

Wow, a bunch of Cottleville area people, that's great. I live off Weiss Rd as well in Cottleville. One of the newer "better get permission to do anything" subdivisions:o But, that is another story:D

Anyone got a projector for summer movies outside:), I'll bring the paragon popper and beer. We could have it at my place, but I'm only allowed 1 visitor at a time in this subdivision, lol. j/k. Hey, we could get really drunk and hook up the Cottleville city hall/ police station trailer and tow it to O'Fallon:D

tcfila

05-27-04, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by _Arklyte_
Hey, we could get really drunk and hook up the Cottleville city hall/ police station trailer and tow it to O'Fallon:D

Now that sounds like my kind of party!

Toeside

05-27-04, 02:59 PM

I read my subdivision rules cover-to-cover and I'm not going to remember any of it until after my DirecTV phase 3 dish and OTA antenna are installed.

I was telling my wife about this thread and she asked if we are going to have a meeting at Steak N Shake at K&N. I think she was making fun of us. :(

Craig

Robert Simandl

05-27-04, 03:09 PM

Whether she is or not, count me in!

Toeside

05-27-04, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Whether she is or not, count me in!

hahaha... But I'd prefer Buffalo Wild Wings. I had lunch at the location by Bass Pro two times this week. :)

dweebe

05-27-04, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by HiDefFan
Has Fox started to broadcast true HD?
I caught American Idol last night on Charter and it looked like true HD.

No Fox hasn't but they were sending it out in 480p according to this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=405827

According to foxeng on the main HDTV forum page no HD going out until August.

Any word on when KTVI is going to get upgraded to HD? From what I've read there's two teams hitting the O&O stations and doing the equipment instals,

dweebe

05-27-04, 05:12 PM

Found this in one thread from foxeng:
No. the upgrade to HD has nothing to do with the new ESB combiner. The network HD gear (located at the studio) is being supplied to ALL FOX affiliates in a roll out that started in March and will conclude sometime in August. During the May sweeps, FOX Stations Group requested that NO HD upgrade installs occur at the owned and operated stations, which WNYW is. KTTV in LA, the west coast national HD feed station was completed in April. WNYW, the east coast national HD feed station, wasn't completed prior to May sweeps. Installs are to begin again next week so WNYW may be one of the first out of the gate since they have to get them up and running for the D* national HD feed to start. The FOX network will being transmitting HD programming to the stations on Sept 12th.

I couldn't find the thread where I read the info but Fox might try a dry run of HD with the All-Star Game but that it will only be from where the game is to Fox HQ. No HD will go out from there. Probably just 480p 16x9 at best.

HiDefFan

05-27-04, 05:26 PM

Even if AI wasn't in HD, at least it was in 16:9 and the PQ was improved.
It feels good to see some progress.

WRacer

05-27-04, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by SkipD
Re: KDNL Breakup

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WRacer
STLouisROD,
Nothing was changed. My Samsung showed no problem and no issues at the studio monitoring site on a DTC-100. Maybe a signal strength or multipath problem due to the weather.
Jim

I have a Samsung Sir TS-360 and have been seeing the same "fluttering" on ABC HD broadcasts. I think the 1st time I noticed it was 6th Sense. I replaced a Sir T-151 which had no problems. (I may plug it back in to recheck since I've not gotten round to posting the 151 on eBay...)
Since I got the 360 from DTV if the problem lies with the unit and not with local broadcast I may be able to get them to give me the Hughes unit.

Interested in hearing more about this.

Skip
(Arnold area)

Skip,
I'd be interested to know if the 151 makes a difference.
Jim

Toeside

05-27-04, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Dave Beebe
No Fox hasn't but they were sending it out in 480p according to this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=405827

According to foxeng on the main HDTV forum page no HD going out until August.

Any word on when KTVI is going to get upgraded to HD? From what I've read there's two teams hitting the O&O stations and doing the equipment instals,

I'm assuming you are referring to locall produced content? KTVI is passing 1080i feeds of HD programming, now--or at least I thought they were.

Is the KTVI news going to be shot with HD cameras and aired in 16x9 HD? That would be cool.

Craig

redwine

05-27-04, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Toeside
hahaha... But I'd prefer Buffalo Wild Wings. I had lunch at the location by Bass Pro two times this week. :)

Buffalo Wild Wings are afforable on Tuesday when they have a special. I once asked my wife for the "mild" and by mistake she brought home the "wild". I could not taste anything for about 8 hours.

dweebe

05-27-04, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Toeside
I'm assuming you are referring to locall produced content? KTVI is passing 1080i feeds of HD programming, now--or at least I thought they were.

Is the KTVI news going to be shot with HD cameras and aired in 16x9 HD? That would be cool.

Craig

I'm referring to KTVI being able to send out the 720p that comes from Fox this fall (after Sept 12).

I doubt that KTVI would be cutting edge like that. I think KOMO in Seattle and somebody in the Carolinas are the only stations producing local HD news.

Robert Simandl

05-27-04, 08:51 PM

I was quite surprised tonight to see 2-1 is actually showing as 720p right now. I discovered this because my HTL-HD in "variable 2" mode shows it as 1080i (always been 480p til now). So I flipped it to "native" and sure enough, it's showing 720p.

Even the (many) local weather cut-ins tonight are showing 720p. It's obviously upconverted, but a big change nonetheless. Considering how good 24 looked Tuesday, I'll bet it's been this way a few days.

Hey isn't there a Buffalo Wild Wings right there at K & N across the street from Steak and Shake? :D

And *still* count me in on the St. Peters/Cottleville/O'Fallon get-together, even though it's not exactly official.

Toeside

05-27-04, 09:13 PM

OK, now I'm confused.

I was under the impression that KSDK, KMOV, KTVI, KPLR and KETC were all broadcasting a 1080i signal, and shows designated as HD were really in HD (provided by the network), everyting else was upconverted. Same for KDNL, but the signal is 720p.

Please let me know if I'm wrong. My HD TiVo doesn''t have native passthrough, so I'm having it send 1080i to my Mits. I have no way of really knowing what's being received.

Craig

PS, yes, there's a Buffalo Wild Wings at K & N next to Lazer Core.

redwine

05-27-04, 09:40 PM

A high def weather radar channel. Now that could be exciting on a night like this!

BudShark

05-27-04, 10:44 PM

Just an FYI - as of 9:42PM Thursday:

Fairview Heights, Brentwood, Bridgeton, South County, and Watson Best Buy's are showing the HD Tivo in stock.

Chris

Robert Simandl

05-28-04, 07:50 AM

And they'll no doubt be gone when I get off work today but I'll give 'em a shot anyway. Thanks for the tip, Chris.

BudShark

05-28-04, 08:47 AM

Its back to showing no stores available in the area - so maybe I just caught them when inventory updated - dunno - sorry for the false alarm.

Chris

wmschultz

05-28-04, 09:45 AM

I get my HD-Tivo delivered today....YEAH...I bought it online from BB on Tuesday............Now I just have to convince my wife it is okay...

I'm sure I can find some buyers...RIGHT??? :eek:

jedi35

05-28-04, 01:34 PM

Hey Robert,

email sent.

BudShark

05-28-04, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by wmschultz
I get my HD-Tivo delivered today....YEAH...I bought it online from BB on Tuesday............Now I just have to convince my wife it is okay...

I'm sure I can find some buyers...RIGHT??? :eek:

Sure - I'll take it off your hands for $599... a $400 loss is worth saving your marriage right? :)

dweebe

05-28-04, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Robert Simandl
I was quite surprised tonight to see 2-1 is actually showing as 720p right now. I discovered this because my HTL-HD in "variable 2" mode shows it as 1080i (always been 480p til now). So I flipped it to "native" and sure enough, it's showing 720p.

Even the (many) local weather cut-ins tonight are showing 720p. It's obviously upconverted, but a big change nonetheless. Considering how good 24 looked Tuesday, I'll bet it's been this way a few days.

Good. That means the team from Fox corporate has upgraded the equipment at KTVI to HD. But there will be no HD until Fox starts sending it out Sept 12.

abcward

05-28-04, 02:46 PM

Any more rumors/information on what are the next HD channel(s) from Charter we can expect? And when?

wmschultz

05-28-04, 04:54 PM

Sure - I'll take it off your hands for $599... a $400 loss is worth saving your marriage right? :)

Nice try...I can take it back to BB if need be.............

BudShark

05-28-04, 05:25 PM

Sure - the CSR I called today at Charter told me they were adding several channels "soon", but didn't have the details.

I am moving into a townhouse while our new house is built, and I can't do a satellite - so its back to Charter HD for a while. Since everyone has questioned Charter prices, here's what I got (or at least was promised)

3 month promotion:
HBO/Cinemax/Showtime/Movie Tier/Basic/Expanded/HD Tier
3MB Internet

$55.98 for video services
29.95 for Internet

So basically everything they have except the digital tiers for $85. Taxes will probably add another $10. Since we are in the townhouse for 3 months - I won't get to see the normal price. I debated with them about the HD Tier because she didn't seem to know what I was talking about - but she swore it was included. If its not, I'll squeak until I get it.

Chris

jedi35

05-29-04, 04:05 PM

I guess that means that those of us who already have our subscr. packages from Charter are just screwed, right? Is this special pricing only for new customers??

abcward

05-29-04, 04:23 PM

jedi,

you can always call up Charter and change your subscription package - I do it all the time when I hear of a better deal that I currently have.

bl7385

05-29-04, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by redwine
4113,,I don't remember whose commercials these were for. Probably one of the telecoms during the bandwidth and dot-com boom. I got burned by this boom. No stock options anymore. Luckily I still have a job in telecom (before it is sent to India like programmers' jobs).

I think it was Quest. "Ride the light"(or something like that).

DroptheRemote

05-30-04, 12:50 AM

Maybe I missed this earlier in the week, but I noticed this evening that SportsCenter is doing a promo countdown for the debut of SportsCenter in HD.

The fact that this is worth noting (IMO, at least) says a lot about how little other networks are doing to promote HDTV.

abcward

05-30-04, 11:39 AM

I want to publicly thank 4113 for his help.

I have been having an ordeal with Charter in the last 10 days to get Charter telephony service properly installed and working. No need to bore everyone with the details but lots of phone calls, many phone outages, etc. basically due to the incompetance of the outside contractor that Charter hired to do the installation.

In desperation, I contacted 4113. He pointed me to a high ranking Charter employee who I emailed with the gory details. Low and behold, there were two senior installers at my doorstep early the next morning to help. They stayed half the day making sure everything was working perfectly. The day after that, Charter sent out the construction crew to professionally run new cable in my front yard - so well done that you can't even tell they had been there.

I realize that my issues would not have been resolved so quickly without 4113's help, so I felt it necessary to publicly pat his back.

THANKS AGAIN 4113 !!!!

:) :) :)

4113

05-30-04, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
I guess that means that those of us who already have our subscr. packages from Charter are just screwed, right? Is this special pricing only for new customers??

This surprises you?
The Dish companies do the same thing but you have a better chance of negotiating with the cable company.

4113

05-30-04, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by abcward
I want to publicly thank 4113 for his help.

I realize that my issues would not have been resolved so quickly without 4113's help, so I felt it necessary to publicly pat his back.

THANKS AGAIN 4113 !!!!
:) :) :)

Don't thank me... Just honor this request:
If you ever have a tech out that does a fine job, just buy the tech(s) lunch...They work long hours, weekends, on call, and repair damages after storms storms, etc. for little pay...many times near primary and secondary power hazards... all so that we may enjoy these material things for our entertainment...and most of them love what they do.

This thought is dedicated to the memory of Charter Communications Technician Christopher Lowery:

Throughout his life, Christopher Lowery took in nearly every stray and abandoned pet that crossed his path. His favorite animal companion was his dog Rufus. The two enjoyed going out on Mr. Lowery's pontoon boat on Lake Tishomingo near his home in Jefferson County, where Rufus would dive into the water for long swims. Mr. Lowery drowned Monday, May 17, 2004 as he tried to rescue Rufus from the lake. He was 31.

"He died doing what he loved," said his wife, Donna Lowery. ''Rufus would stay in water forever if you would let him. Many times, my husband would have to go into the lake to get him so the dog wouldn't exhaust himself.

When he went into the water this time to get Rufus, he wasn't able to push the 90-pound dog back up onto the boat" Emergency crews from several districts were called in when Mr. Lowery started showing signs of distress in the water. Rescuers found Rufus swimming in circles near the area that Mr. Lowery apparently went down.

Mr. Lowery was born in St. Louis. His mother, Charlene Brown, died when he was 6. For a number of years, he lived with various relatives, but in his early teens settled down with his maternal grandparents, Ruby Brown-Frost and the late Charlie Brown, in Jefferson County.

Mr. Lowery worked as an Installation Technician for Charter Communications starting in 2001. "His job gave him a sense of self . . . and so many friends," his wife said. But it was his passion for the well-being of animals that was more endearing to her.

The Lowery's gave refuge to many animals in their heavily wooded yard and in nearby Lake Tishomingo.

In addition to his wife and grandmother, among the survivors is a sister, Jamie Lowery of St Peters.

In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to the
Open Door Animal Sanctuary, 6065 Duda Road, House Springs, Mo. 63051.

(St. Louis Post Dispatch)

DroptheRemote

06-01-04, 07:45 AM

Starting up the June thread, with a link back to the last page for May:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3864912#post3864912

DroptheRemote

06-01-04, 07:46 AM

Onward to the June 2004 thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3869598#post3869598

DroptheRemote

06-01-04, 07:50 AM

St Louis Tower Maps

For anyone doing the initial install of an OTA antenna, or anyone looking to fine-tune the positioning of their existing antenna, the attached ZIP file contains two maps showing the tower location for each digital station in St. Louis.

Your Right to Erect an Antenna and/or Satellite Dish

As more and more consumers purchase high-definition displays, there's increasing interest in arranging for receipt of HD programming via an over-the-air antenna or through a satellite dish.

Unfortunately with the proliferation of cable television in the 1980s and 1990s, many communities, property developers and homeowner/condo owner associations tried to undo the visual blight of antennas (and later, satellite dishes) from their local skylines. While these laws, rules or convenants were well-intended -- after all, it would be difficult to argue for the cosmetic benefits of a yagi antenna -- these actions are not legally enforceable.

The FCC has ruled -- with only a few very narrow exceptions -- that you have the right to receive over-the-air television and radio broadcasts and as a result you have a right to erect an antenna to receive these signals. This ruling also encompasses the erection of small satellite dishes.

Even if you have previously signed a lease or homeower association convenant that requires you to forego the right to erect an antenna or satellite dishes, the FCC has ruled that these types of provisions are unenforceable.

In general, there are only a few notable exceptions to this rule:

* First, the location of the antenna or dish must be an "exclusive use" area. As a homeowner or condominium owner, this would mean any part of the property over which you have control. For renters, this would also apply to balconies or patios that are intended solely for your use. The sort of rental property area that would not be covered would be general use areas, such as common passageways or rooftop areas that are clearly intended for the shared use of all residents.

* Second, the antenna or dish cannot be erected in areas that would create a legitimate safety issue, for example one that is dangling off a balcony or placed too close to electrical wiring.

* Third, there may be restrictions if you are located in a designated historical (or prehistorical) district, in which case a permit may be required.

The other major limitation is that these devices cannot exceed 1 meter (39.37 inches) in diameter.

The burden of proof in contesting your right to mount a dish and/or antenna rests with the landlord, homeowner association, city council, etc. Strictly speaking, you do not need to seek prior permission or provide prior notice, so long as the device is to be situated in an area under your control and there is no obvious safety issue.

However, before taking on the expense and effort of such an installation, you should read and review in its entirety the following summary of the FCC ruling on consumer rights to mount over-the-air devices:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

More Information about Antennas and DTV

The Consumer Electronics Association antenna mapping program at AntennaWeb.org can help you determine the proper antenna to use, based on your own location and the distance from the local digital broadcast towers.

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Feedback to St. Louis Stations

Is there something that you're unhappy about concerning the digital broadcasts by local St. Louis stations?

Weird-looking presentation of standard-definition programming? Multiple channel bugs cluttering up those beautiful images? Somebody at the station forgot to "flip the switch" before or during the middle of your favorite HD program?

Or better yet, maybe you'd just like to send your thanks and encouragement to your favorite local station for the effort they've made so far in providing us with more and better HD programming. The cost and effort in providing digital and HD programming is significant, and it's important for the station owners and management to know that we're watching.

Well, here's the place where you can find the online addresses where you can send your comments and feedback.

KTVI Channel 2 contact:
ktvitech@fox2ktvi.com

KMOV Channel 4 contact:
programs@kmov.com
WNichol@kmov.com

KSDK Channel 5 contact:
jheskett@ksdk.gannett.com
kcreamer@ksdk.gannett.com

KETC Channel 9 contact:
letters@ketc.org

KPLR Channel 11 contact:
whatson@wb11tv.com
technical@wb11tv.com

KDNL Channel 30 contact:
jwright@kdnl.sbgnet.com

WRBU Channel 46 contact:
[no email, no web site, no HD programming]

DroptheRemote

06-01-04, 07:51 AM

* There are two ways to receive local digital/HD broadcasts in the St. Louis area. The first, and by far simplest, is to subscribe to Charter Cable. Unfortunately, Charter doesn't currently provide all of the available St. Louis digital stations. To date, Charter is only offering KTVI-DT (FOX), KMOV-DT (CBS) and KSDK-DT (NBC).

Until Charter is able to deliver a complete line-up of local digital/HD stations (or if you've already selected satellite for your subscription television service), you'll need some sort of antenna -- either indoor, attic or roof mount.

* Forget most of what you know about receiving traditional analog television via an antenna, as digital broadcasting is for the most part a different animal.

The first and most important thing to know is that digital signals, once received, tend to be highly stable. The sort of artifacts that you may recall about pre-cable antenna reception of local stations isn't all that relevant to digital reception. For example, in the digital realm there's no visual equivalent to the analog artifacts known as "snow," or "ghosting."

And in most cases, a digital signal won't slowly fade in and out as was sometimes the case in fringe analog reception areas. For the most part, with digital broadcasts you either receive the signal and have a near-perfect picture and sound, or you won't get anything at all.

In addition, barring significant topographical or architectural obstacles between your location and the transmission towers, digital signals appear to be more robust in terms of distance they can travel without degradation. While it's the exception rather than the rule, there are instances where digital OTA signals have been received as far as 120 miles from the tower.

So, just because you may have had difficulty with OTA analog signals in the past at your location, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to receive digital OTA signals.

* All of the current St. Louis digital/HD stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF spectrum. The UHF channel assignments for local stations appears below:

26 - KPLR (WB)
31 - KDNL (ABC)
35 - KSDK (NBC)
39 - KETC (PBS)
43 - KTVI (FOX)
47 - WRBU (UPN)
56 - KMOV (CBS)

Today, all St. Louis stations are "simulcasting," with the traditional analog broadcasts via one frequency and the digital/HD broadcasts through another. For example, KMOV sends its analog broadcasts out as VHF channel 4 and then simulataneously sends its digital broadcasts as UHF channel 56.

As the transition to digital broadcasting progresses, there will come a time when the analog broadcasts will be discontinued and stations will only be transmitting digitally. While this switch from analog to digital was originally scheduled to take place in 2006, it's almost certain that the analog shutdown will be deferred for at least a few years.

But when that analog shutdown does occur, it's possible that one or more local stations will decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their longtime analog channel designations. As a purely hypothetical example, after shutting down its analog broadcasts, KMOV might opt to move its digital transmission to VHF channel 4.

* While the signals for digital/HD broadcasts are made up of binary data (zeros and ones), from a viewer perspective, there's nothing special about the antenna required to receive those broadcasts. As noted above, the actual transmission takes place over the UHF spectrum. That means that if you already have an old UHF-capable antenna on your rooftop or in your attic, there's a good chance that it will receive some, and possibly all, of the available local digital broadcasts. The only way to conclusively determine if that older antenna will carry you into the digital age is to test it.

However, it is possible that in order to maximize signal integrity you might need to upgrade the cable run from an existing antenna to your distribution point(s), especially if the antenna uses the flimsy ribbon-type cable connection. If you need to replace the cable for an existing antenna, RG-6 quad-shield coax is recommended. A 1,000-foot roll of RG-6 quad coax can be purchased for around $75, though it is possible to buy smaller quantities at a higher per-foot cost.

* If you're starting from scratch and need to purchase an antenna, there is some merit in selecting a UHF-only antenna. While a combo VHF-UHF antenna would likely work in many situations, a UHF-only antenna will normally give better, more reliable results. If you do have an existing antenna and it isn't capable of pulling in all of the stations in the area, there's a good chance that swapping out for a UHF-only antenna would result in better reception.

Of course, the downside in opting for a UHF-only antenna is that if any of the local stations subsequently decide to shift their digital broadcasts to their old analog channel assignment, a VHF antenna might be required to continue receiving those stations.

* Without officially endorsing one antenna over another, here are some suggestions that should work for most viewers within a 45-mile radius of the St. Louis transmission towers.

But first, bear in mind that antenna reception is one part art and one part science. What works in one location might not work across the street due to topographical or physical obstacles in the signal path at that second location. But that sort of anomaly is rare, and antenna reception is normally achievable with some reasonable effort and determination. But it is important to understand that there are no certainties and the only way to find out what can be received with an antenna in a given location is to test one yourself or arrange for one to be installed by a proven installer.

For outdoor or attic antennae, ChannelMaster sells at least two UHF-only models that you should consider -- the CM4221 (retail $25), which is a 4-bay rated for 45 miles, and the CM4228 (retail $50), which is an 8-bay rated for 60 miles. Winegard has the Prostar 1000 model PR-4400 rated for 45 miles, and the PR-8800 rated for 60 miles. Radio Shack also sells a UHF-only antenna (catalog # 15-2160, $30 retail) that is worth considering.

As a general suggestion, avoid antennas that look appear to be working overtime to not look like an antenna. While it's true that traditional antennae are unattractive and a lot of people consider them to be eyesores to be avoided at all cost, the newer streamlined, aerodynamic antennae seem to compromise reception capability in exchange for a more friendly appearance.

For indoor antennas, there are many options here as well, but the current performance leader is the Zenith Silver Sensor (ZHDTV1), which is available at most local Best Buy stores at a cost of around $40. The excellent performance of the Silver Sensor is probably in part due to the fact that Zenith actually designed the technology responsible for the transmission of OTA digital/HD signals, known as 8VSB.

Again, there's no reliable way to predict if an indoor antenna will work in your location, short of buying one and testing it. The good news here is that most of the major retailers have reasonable return policies, so it's unlikely that you'll be out major bucks if it turns out that an indoor antenna isn't up to the job in your home.

oby

06-01-04, 08:55 AM

June HD requests for Charter Communications: ABC HD; Discovery HD, PBS HD, Bravo HD, and TNT HD.

Thank you.

SkipD

06-01-04, 09:44 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SkipD
Re: KDNL Breakup

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WRacer
STLouisROD,
Nothing was changed. My Samsung showed no problem and no issues at the studio monitoring site on a DTC-100. Maybe a signal strength or multipath problem due to the weather.
Jim

I have a Samsung Sir TS-360 and have been seeing the same "fluttering" on ABC HD broadcasts. I think the 1st time I noticed it was 6th Sense. I replaced a Sir T-151 which had no problems. (I may plug it back in to recheck since I've not gotten round to posting the 151 on eBay...)
Since I got the 360 from DTV if the problem lies with the unit and not with local broadcast I may be able to get them to give me the Hughes unit.

Interested in hearing more about this.

Skip
(Arnold area)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by WRacer
Skip,
I'd be interested to know if the 151 makes a difference.
Jim

Sun evening - ? Line of Fire (can't remember name) - had same problem with the Sam TS-360. Switched to the Sam T-151 and it came in perfectly. Yesterday sent a msg to the tech at chan 30 asking if he thinks the problem is with the STB. Haven't heard back yet... but last night the hockey game was perfect when viewed with the 360! ??

Skip

Toeside

06-01-04, 01:27 PM

In the May thread, there was talk of KTVI FOX2 being upgraded to HD. I might have misworded that, but can someone explain this?

Isn't KTVI FOX2 sending out 1080i now?

I just looked at TitanTV.com and nothing on KTVI-DT is listed as HD. I didn't realize this. Is anything from FOX in HD yet?

Thanks,

Craig

John Kotches

06-01-04, 01:30 PM

Craig,

Fox is 480p until fall, when they will broadcast in 720p.

I honestly haven't checked the scan rate on KTVI to see what resolution their transmission is in.

Cheers,

Toeside

06-01-04, 01:38 PM

John, thanks. Not having native passthrough, I had no idea it was 480p. Maybe that should be in the first post in these threads.

:)

Thanks!

sconstan

06-01-04, 01:40 PM

My box shows channel 2 as HD.

tcfila

06-01-04, 02:45 PM

I think they are upconverting it to 720P, until they finish the upgrades. I think I read that in another forum, but may be wrong.

Tim

duihlein

06-01-04, 02:53 PM

KTVI Fox2 is retransmitting 480p from Fox Corporate.

They had been doing this at 1080i, but in the last week or so it switched to 720p in preperation for the network move from 480p to 720p. It appears this is happening all over the country and likely coincides with the upgrade equipment being installed locally.

Either way you look at it, right now Fox2 is most definately NOT HD, but it will be in a couple of months (just in time for the NFL!!!) :)

Dave

DroptheRemote

06-01-04, 03:14 PM

Skip,

There's a better chance of getting a reply to your latest message by reposting it in the June thread, which can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...598#post3869598

abcward

06-01-04, 03:26 PM

yea i cant wait for the NFL in HD - its about time

wmschultz

06-01-04, 03:33 PM

Hey Doug,

What is the status of the article you were talking about writing?

I hooked up my HD-Tivo on Friday night and I can say I love it...I can't believe how much I missed not having one. We have 2 SD Tivos and not having an HD Tivo really changed my viewing habits....I always had to be there to watch it or else I just wouldn't watch it..

Well, the first thing I programmed was Trading Spaces on Discovery HD..

I can also confirm the SLOOOOWWWW response to the controller. Worse than the other Hughes Tivo we have. The audio dropouts on HDNet, I think it is a software buffering bug because if you just changed the channel back to HDnet it goes away.

I hooked it up to my TV using the component outputs because the HDMI/DVI cable seemed a little lame....Besides I have my Zenith 520 hooked up via DVI.

My wife took the news quite well....She even said I didn't have to sell my 520 to off set the cost. DirecTV gave me a credit of $175 when I activated the new Tivo..Over all, I am quite happy. The OTA reception seems to be more forgiving with the HD-Tivo in comparison to the 520.

I can definately say that by adding a diplexer into my mix for this short term has definately degraded my reception level.

tommeyj

06-01-04, 05:16 PM

Looks like Fox 2 is gearing up for 720p. As I was watching JJ they kept inserting clip from other programs. One was the Rams and Patriots superbowl and the picture look great. I guess it good to know with football a fews months away.

MSloss

06-01-04, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Toeside
Robert and redwine,

Looks like I'll be between both of you. We'll be just east of K on N, practically on the O'Fallon/Cottleville line.

BTW, our house is at the drywalling stage. There is RG6 Quad coiled and waiting in the attic. The house should be ready in August. If any of you figure out the right antenna for the area, let me know.

Craig

Add me to the club! I am just catching up on this and the May thread, since I have been busy moving into my new house just off Bates south of N. This past weekend I tried the Squareshooter in the attic and got poor results. I added an amplifier from RS with still poor results. Took out the Squareshooter and put in a Channel Master yagi from Lowes. That is working very well with the HD (except 46) and pretty well with the analog except for some snow on ch. 5. The interference increases with the amplifier cranked up past the minimal setting, so I might try it without the amp. I'll keep you posted on the results.

Also got the Directv dish installed through the moving program for $25 and have the HD Tivo on order. I might try getting a credit as well!

Mike

DroptheRemote

06-01-04, 06:42 PM

wmschultz,

The "State of HDTV" article is still sitting with the feature editors at the Post-Dispatch. Obviously if it sits there much longer, it will need to be rewritten, as there have been a number of developments since I submitted it more than 6 weeks ago. For example, SportsCenter in HD is only days away, and TNT is now available in HD on DISH, VOOM and various cable systems around the country.

Along with the HDTV piece, I also pitched the P-D on the idea of a weekly or monthly column related to home theater and other consumer electronics. I checked in on both of these pitches recently, and while there's some apparent level of interest among the various feature editors there, it's not clear-cut enough for someone to pull the trigger on the idea.

Of course, it's possible that there's an issue of my article/sample columns not being up to the quality standards of the P-D, but from the feedback so far the lack of decision seems to be more about whether there's enough reader interest in this to justify the cost and space.

So for now, you'll have to be content with my occasional rambling and ranting here... ;)

Separately, here's an interesting article from Yahoo/Extreme Tech on the future of television:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ttzd/20040527/tc_techtues_zd/128227&cid=1739&ncid=1729

StLouG

06-01-04, 06:49 PM

I had Charter phone installed today. The installer was very knowledgeable and courteous. He explained what he was doing and was willing to answer any questions that I had. So far the quality of the phone service is very good. Just wanted to let people know that Charter is not always wrong.

tcfila

06-01-04, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
So for now, you'll have to be content with my occasional rambling and ranting here... ;)

Doug, you're rambling and ranting is always appreciated here!

Tim

jedi35

06-01-04, 08:47 PM

StLouG,

What phone services did you get, and how much is it costing you?

knightcap

06-01-04, 10:23 PM

help a cheap guy, please! I'm trying to get HD as cheap as possible. One solution is buy an OTA receiver on ebay for around $130. However, the other option is to upgrade my Charter analog cable to digital for about $2/month, and then add HD which I think is $4/month. So for $6/month, I could get HD, or $72 a year. So, here's my question: if I go the Charter route, I'd like to get a digital picture on my other TV, which is not HD ready. I can rent a digital box from Charteer for $7/month for this TV, but this seems awful high. Can I buy a box (say, on ebay) that will allow me to watch digital cable on Charter, assuming I have already paid for digital service? Do I have to rent Charter's box, or can I supply my own? If so, which box is "Charter compatible"? Thanks!

redwine

06-01-04, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by MSloss
Add me to the club! I am just catching up on this and the May thread, since I have been busy moving into my new house just off Bates south of N. This past weekend I tried the Squareshooter in the attic and got poor results. I added an amplifier from RS with still poor results. Took out the Squareshooter and put in a Channel Master yagi from Lowes. That is working very well with the HD (except 46) and pretty well with the analog except for some snow on ch. 5. The interference increases with the amplifier cranked up past the minimal setting, so I might try it without the amp. I'll keep you posted on the results.

Mike

MSloss (Mike),

You are in Dardenne Prairie now! I pass by your subdivision on Bates every day on my way to work. I am just one subdivison west on N. When you get the antenna working well let me know so I can get rid of Charter (unless they magically start up Starz and Cinemax HD).

MSloss

06-01-04, 11:05 PM

Redwine,

Like I said in a post a few months ago, I was giving serious thought to going with Charter. However, when I called them, they couldn't tell me when they would offer service to my subdivision. I guess they wait until all or most of the homes are built, and I couldn't wait that long. We are just the fourth residents of a 69-lot subdivision.

My main concern was HD, and that is going fine with OTA. Next, I want decent VHF to feed the older sets as well, and that still needs some tweaking.

Mike

tcfila

06-02-04, 10:39 AM

Check with your city, I think that in their franchise agreement it stipulates that when a certain percentage of the subdivision is built, they are required to bring in the cable....but I may be wrong.

Tim

robroy90

06-02-04, 11:26 AM

Hey guys!

I am no stranger to AVS, but I just took the plunge into HD here in the St. Louis area, and I am looking forward to "networking" with others here in the STL area as it pertains to HD/Home Theater.

I purchased (but have yet to take delivery of) a new Mitsubishi 65813 65" RPTV. A HD Tivo is on the radar, but I have to walk before I run (or so the wife tells me). In the meantime, I plan to use a JVC D-VHS deck for HD timeshifting via a firewire connection from the TV. I know that is a bit of a hack, I just hope it works reliably enough in the interim.

We are putting the finishing touches on a new home between Edwardsville and Wood River, and in preparation for HD, I have already mounted a CM 3678 (I think that was the model) to hopefully bring in enough signal. I ran RG-6 from the roof down into a central location for further distribution, but that is all I have done to this point.

So, my question is, what should I be looking for in terms of a preamp? I know the signal is probably not going to be strong enough, especially to all the locations in the home I plan to distribute it.

I purchased a Leviton 2Ghz, 8-way amplified splitter to do the distribution, but should I use the preamp in addition to the amplified splitter?

My hope is that this OTA can serve many duties in addition to OTA HD reception, including OTA SD programming, and good AM/FM reception if possible.

I would appreciate any input or ideas on how to best move forward with this.

I am also looking forward to meeting some new people and making some new friends in the process! I would love to host a meet once I have everything in place.

Thanks for your time,

Rob

GlendaleHDTV

06-02-04, 01:17 PM

I thought I'd post a copy of the email I got back from Charter in response to my inquiry as to when the Motorola Moxi HD-PVR's would be rolled out in St. Louis:

Tyler,

Our ETA is sometime in July.

-Customer Care Team
Charter - Get hooked.

I would have preferred for him to give me a date, but at least this message is consistent with what other people are hearing. My piece of crap Philips DVD Recorder decided to stop working two weeks after the warranty expired so I'm anxiously awaiting the Moxi rollout.

kwatkins

06-02-04, 01:45 PM

My understanding is that the Moxi box won't have a DVD player or recorder. Do you know something different? BTW - I live in Glendale, also.

GlendaleHDTV

06-02-04, 02:12 PM

kwatkins - I didn't mean to imply that the initial Moxi box would have a DVD player or recorder. My understanding is that those features will be in a future release. In my situation, I have another DVD player, but I've got no way to record/time-shift any TV (no VCR, no TIVO, broken dvd recorder) so I'm holding out for the Moxi instead of paying to get my dvd recorder fixed.

jedi35

06-02-04, 02:14 PM

Some Charter VOD(Video on Demand) info:

I live in Fergusen, where I have not been able to get VOD yet, even though the area has been wired for analog, digital, HD, and pipeline...all of which I have. I did receive a PM from another member living in Fergusen who worked with Charter to get VOD, and was eventually successful. However, it was discovered that VOD doesn't work well with those who have HD boxes, as all of the channels willl not come through because of software incompatibility. Yikes.

I called today, and Charter told me that VOD is now available for me, and they confirmed that there is an issue with HD boxes. They changed some settings, asked me to wait 20 minutes, but there was no change. I have the 6200 HD box. Hopefully the new Moxi boxes will have all this fixed. Anybody else in Fergusen with HD and getting VOD?? Wanting VOD??

BudShark

06-02-04, 02:14 PM

Pegasus is DEAD!!!

Yippeee!!!! I can actually get DirecTV once I move to the new house (assuming Charter doesn't wow me starting tomorrow).

It is a huge step forward for DirecTV getting rid of the NRTC exclusive deal. Sorry - just had to jump for joy.

Chris

jedi35

06-02-04, 02:22 PM

I asked Charter today about the special rates that combine pipeline with HD/digital/ movie paks, etc. I was told that they have a special program designed to pull in satellite customers, who in turn have to "turn over their sat. receivers". Has anybody heard of this? You mean you actually have to give them a piece of eq. that you might have spent hundreds of dollars on? Has anybody done this? I thought the worst they would tell me was that it was for new customers only. Then, you drop everything, and become a new customer again, right??(Just kidding...)

JDKH

06-02-04, 03:25 PM

jedi35

I did the trade in of a satellite receiver several years ago. Yes, you have to give them the equipment. In my case I had lightning damage and the receiver was shot so it was no financial loss for me. At that time i got a $300 credit on my cable bills, which made cable free for about 6 months.

John

GlendaleHDTV

06-02-04, 03:29 PM

jedi -

Some guys I work with just switched from directv to Charter, and the deal they got was basically the same deal Charter is offering everybody (basically all movie channels plus HDTV for $53/month for 60 days). The only difference is they get the deal through the end of 2004 instead of for sixty days. They just mentioned that they were currently with satellite and the CSR said they had some special deals for people leaving satellite. They didn't have to physically turn in any equipment.

With respect to VOD, I know of at least three people (myself included) who use VOD with the HD box with no problem. We are all in the Kirkwood/Webster area.

StLouG

06-02-04, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
StLouG,

What phone services did you get, and how much is it costing you?

I have one phone line. I got free installation and first month free. After that for $27.00 a month I got Called ID, Call Waiting and Caller ID Call Waiting. My long distance cost in state is 7 cents a minute and out of state it is 10 cents a minute. I still have a dial up modem and prior to this new phone service I was connecting at 28 hundred and now (drum roll) I connect at 49 hundred. :eek: For me it seems like night and day.

Robert Simandl

06-02-04, 06:55 PM

Hey gang,

If Kurt Warner goes to the Giants, what are the chances KTVI will show us the Giants game on those weekends when they can show two games, or when the Rams have a bye?

Having seen all those home games in "live definition" during Warner's prime, I have a soft spot for the guy and hope he does well in New York (and hope to see as many Giants games as possible if he starts).

jedi35

06-02-04, 08:39 PM

Charter VOD update(if anyone cares):

Since nothing changed after the first call I made today, I called again, and this time I got them to "really " send a download to my box. The unit shutdown, and came back on a few minutes later. To my surprise, I now have a new "On Demand" button on my main menu screen. However, everytime I press it, I get this message:

Connection to VOD Server lost. Please try again later. If problem continues, please call your cable operator. Reference 217.

I made another call and got a guy who seemed to know all about the 217 code, and he's setting me up for another download, which should fix things in his opinion by about 8:30 tonight. We'll see. It's good to hear that there are those who are using VOD with the HD boxes with no problems. There is hope.

redwine

06-02-04, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Charter VOD update(if anyone cares):

Since nothing changed after the first call I made today, I called again, and this time I got them to "really " send a download to my box. The unit shutdown, and came back on a few minutes later. To my surprise, I now have a new "On Demand" button on my main menu screen. However, everytime I press it, I get this message:

Connection to VOD Server lost. Please try again later. If problem continues, please call your cable operator. Reference 217.

I made another call and got a guy who seemed to know all about the 217 code, and he's setting me up for another download, which should fix things in his opinion by about 8:30 tonight. We'll see. It's good to hear that there are those who are using VOD with the HD boxes with no problems. There is hope.

I have the Charter HD box and an older non-HD box. The old one works better with VOD. I get the 217 code a lot on the HD box. Maybe I need a "download".

What I really want is VOD that is in HD!!!!!! Why is this capability taking so long in the St. Louis area? (I think I answered my own question.)

abcward

06-02-04, 09:54 PM

I use VOD on both my HD and my SD box. I occasionally get the error but immediately try again and everything works perfectly. Love the VOD....I too cant wait for HD VOD.

tcfila

06-02-04, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
I made another call and got a guy who seemed to know all about the 217 code, and he's setting me up for another download, which should fix things in his opinion by about 8:30 tonight.

I was told the same thing....then after setting up 2 service calls to fix it, they realized that it wasn't available in Lake St. Louis.

jedi35

06-02-04, 11:55 PM

Well, I had settled in with the fact that VOD wasn't available in my area until I got PM from someone else in Fergusen who has VOD and the HD box. All the reps I talked to today confirmed that VOD is here in my area. Everything else Charter offers is here except the telephone services.

I don't think my second download happened tonight, and right now I'm on hold(even as I type) to talk to Charter again. Here we go.....let's see what they tell me this time.

wschwart

06-03-04, 12:04 AM

I watched the PBS HD channel tonight to view a program on Digital TV. I knew it was going to be very basic, but it was really lame! I began to wonder when the program was made when several PBS stars who have been dead for some time were featured. At the end the copyright said 1998.
Come on PBS and anyone else that might want to do a similar program - keep your information current and give a little more useful information.

jedi35

06-03-04, 12:18 AM

I'm taping something for someone who lives in Oregon coming up on Thursday morning. He wants the analog feed of ch.2, as he doesn't like the way the picture is stretched on the digital feed. I have my hd box set up to give me 4:3 images on analog channels in a "pillar box" AR on my hd monitor. Will this be a problem for the person I'm making the tape for if he doesn't have widescreen display? Will he see the same bars on the sides of the screen that I do even on a 4:3 tv? If so, what setting should I change my hd box video setup to if I want the image to fill his 4:3 screen without side bars, an have proper geometry? If he has an hd display, there's no need to worry, right? The vcr I'm using for this is a regular vhs/svhs deck being fed with the antenna-in cable.

4113

06-03-04, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by jedi35
Well, I had settled in with the fact that VOD wasn't available in my area until I got PM from someone else in Fergusen who has VOD and the HD box. All the reps I talked to today confirmed that VOD is here in my area. Everything else Charter offers is here except the telephone services.

I don't think my second download happened tonight, and right now I'm on hold(even as I type) to talk to Charter again. Here we go.....let's see what they tell me this time.

They may be sending a newer version of software. Can you tell me what your code module # is?

BTW, you can force a download on the HD box by unplugging the AC, then while pressing POWER and SELECT at the same time, plug the AC back in. This will re-boot the DCT-5100/6200 and re-download the software assigned to that box. This is good if it locks up or displays "0".

DO NOT DO THIS ON A DCT-2000!!! (the black ones!) You will regret it!It will kill the box and it will have to go back to Charter. Those have to be downloaded on site. Don't say I didn't warn you...
DO NOT DO THIS ON THE REGULAR DIGITAL BOX!!!!

jedi35

06-03-04, 04:09 AM

4113,

When you say code module #, is that the 217 code I get when I try to use VOD? If not, please tell me how to find the right number. In my most recent conversation with a Charter rep, I was told that my download started at about 2pm, and they noticed when they tried to check my box that the download was still going on. I'm told that VOD is a lot of info, and it could take up to 24 hours to comlete. I'll check it again tomorrow afternoon and see what happens.

oby

06-03-04, 07:33 AM

I don't use VOD on Charter, as I belong to Netflix, and get DVD's that way, and they look very good on progressive scan dvd.

I also don't have any premium movie channels on Charter, and thats why I really hope they add more HD channels like Discovery HD, ABC HD, and TNT HD.

wmschultz

06-03-04, 09:45 AM

DroptheRemote

06-03-04, 10:23 AM

I'm posting these stories because I seem to recall some months back that there are certain towns in the St. Louis area where it's not possible to contract directly with DirecTV for its services.

I think it was Pegasus that was the entity with exclusive right to DirecTV sales in some of those areas, but I could be wrong.

In any event, this is somewhat interesting from the standpoint that DirecTV is moving to have more direct control over its products and brand, following the acquisition of the company by News Corp. from Hughes. There also seems to be an undercurrent that the new owner of DirecTV (News Corp) isn't happy with the terms of the Pegasus relationship and this is a broadside to undo it, or at least redo it under more favorable conditions.

Whether that's good for DirecTV current or future customers, I have no idea.

Both stories are from SkyREPORT News:

_______________________________________

Pegasus Files for Chapter 11

Pegasus Communications said its subsidiaries - Pegasus Satellite Television, Pegasus Satellite Communications and Pegasus Media and Communications - have filed for protection under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code.

The company said it made the move in order to prevent the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative and DirecTV from seeking to implement what it called an unlawful termination of Pegasus Satellite Television's agreements for exclusive distribution of DirecTV services. The filings will seek affirmation by the Bankruptcy Court of Pegasus Satellite Television's rights as well as damages resulting from NRTC's and DirecTV's actions to impair those rights, including NRTC's breach of its duties to Pegasus Satellite Television, NRTC's majority owner, the company said in a statement.

Pegasus said it believes the filing will also enable it to continue to provide uninterrupted service to 1.1 million rural subscribers during the resolution of these disputes and to continue to meet its responsibilities to its employees and business partners in the ordinary course.

Mark Pagon, Chairman and CEO of Pegasus Communications, said, "We intend to take all appropriate actions necessary to prevent NRTC and DirecTV from implementing this latest scheme to deprive our stakeholders of the substantial value that we have successfully created in our satellite television business since 1994. It is with the greatest reluctance that we have concluded that Pegasus Satellite Television must seek the protection of Chapter 11 in order to protect our customers, employees, business partners, creditors and owners - while we seek affirmation of our rights. We intend to pursue a resolution of these matters as expeditiously as possible."

_______________________________________

New NRTC/DirecTV Deal Clouds Pegasus Future

DirecTV and the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative agreed to end NRTC's exclusive sale of the satellite TV service in rural areas, the entities announced Wednesday.

The move further clouded the future of Pegasus, which controls NRTC affiliates with about 1.1 million DirecTV customers. Pegasus said it wasn't aware of the deal, which it was reviewing Wednesday, but added that it doesn't think the company's agreements can be terminated.

DirecTV said through the new deal NRTC's separate agreements for sale of the satellite TV service with its members and affiliates - including Pegasus Satellite Television - have been terminated, effective Aug. 31. DirecTV said it will to allow NRTC members to participate as non-exclusive retailers and service providers, or through another option NRTC members can deal directly with the satellite TV company and become exclusive DirecTV resellers through 2011.

As for Pegasus, DirecTV said Wednesday it made a cash offer to the company - payable in either a lump sum or monthly payments - if Pegasus agrees to an orderly transfer of its subscribers to DirecTV before Aug. 31. "While neither the NRTC nor DirecTV has an obligation to Pegasus on account of the termination of its contracts, DirecTV has extended an offer that we believe is fair and reasonable," said Steve Cox, executive vice president of sales, distribution and business development at DirecTV.

In a separate statement, Pegasus Satellite Television President Ted Lodge said the company is evaluating the notice purporting to terminate its agreements and the related cash offer. He said the company received the notice and offer Wednesday morning with no prior notification.

He also hinted Pegasus may challenge the deal. "We categorically reject DirecTV's and NRTC's assertion that they can terminate our agreements, and intend to vigorously protect our rights," he said. "We believe the strong arm tactics demonstrated by these actions further evidence both the true value of our assets and the very strong desire of DirecTV and NRTC to take value away from our stakeholders."

In a Securities and Exchange Commission filing, DirecTV said any payment to Pegasus would amount to about $750 million.

DirecTV praised the NRTC deal. "We are excited about this new chapter in DirecTV's business, which will allow us to cohesively market our service to consumers in NRTC territories and to incrementally expand our owned-and-operated subscriber base," Cox said.

Said NRTC President and CEO Bob Phillips, "This is a classic win-win situation for NRTC's members and DirecTV. NRTC's members will be able to realize value from the businesses that they have so successfully built over the last decade while DirecTV will be able to retain NRTC's member base as part of its new national retail network."

_______________________________________

BudShark

06-03-04, 11:22 AM

Yes, Pegasus handles several areas of the Metro East - including Edwardsville. I'm not sure about the Missouri side of the house.

I won't comment on the other changes News Corp is making (standardizing boxes, interface, no company nameplates, etc...), but with respect to the NRTC restrictions - they needed to go away a long time ago. I truly believe that if DirecTV succeeds and gets rid of Pegasus/NRTC - you will see a subscriber jump from the 1.5 million to around 3 million for the rural customers. I personally know of 3 people that will switch as soon as this goes through.

Chris

GreatRat

06-03-04, 01:35 PM

Hi all,
I just about finished setting up my HD+HT. I thought I would share my experiences with all. If you are short of time, here's the synopsis:

TV: Samsung HLN507W1, bought at Ultimate Electronics, St. Peters mall. Dan Luigs is the salesman. He is the best. He gave me a great discount.

Antenna: hdtvantennas.net or antennasdirect.com. This is a internet company run by Rich out of So. St. Louis. You can call him on the toll free number 877- 825- 5572 and he is very helpful.

Dishnetwork: Prime Time satellites (314 481 9400) , very fast service, installed in 2 days of ordering.

Home Theater: Denon 1804, Infinity 750 speakers. Purchased from Ultimate Elec/Dan Luigs. Doug (droptheremote) is also a consultant for HT.

HDTV Calibration: Doug (droptheremote). Go with him.

My story:
It is a long one, but will try to make it as short as possible. First the TV. Thanks to AVSforum members I was able to make a pretty fast decision about the Samsung. Wife liked it. IMHO BestBuy and Circuit City are the worst places to buy TVs as I noticed that the sales people were practically ignorant about HDTVs.
Thought of buying from Costco, and so ended up in St. Peters mall. Happened to see Ultimate Electronics nearby and walked in to browse the other TVs. Met Dan Luigs and was very impressed with his knowledge and when I told him that I plan to buy a TV at Costco, he offerred to price match (BB & CC don't price match Costco). Dan was very courteous through out. I ended up buying my HT setup too from him. If you are in the market for any consumer electronics I think you should try Ultimate Electronics first. If you get hold of Dan, don't hesitate to ask him for a discount. Asking helps!

Dishnetwork: Called around all the installers, and nobody was prepared to install within a week. PrimeTime was ready to install in 2 days and so went with them. The install went smoothly and R.Rambo (yes that's his real name!) offered to put up a HDTV antenna at no extra cost for labor.

HDTV antenna: Tried the radio shack HDTV special antenna. Sorry to say it is a piece of junk. I couldn't pick up a single digital station. Tried the Zenith silver sensor, I could get ABC and nothing else. In desperation I tried the Terk (silver sensor knock off) indoor and I was able to get 4 channels. I turned to the internet and noticed that hdtvantennas.net is operated out of St. Louis. I called them and spoke to Rich Schieder. He was very helpful and we spent about 30 mins over the phone. I offered to pick up the antenna from his home, and boy does he have a nice home!. It was worth the effort to drive up to his house. We shot the breeze for quite some time about electronics, HDTV and such. The antenna cost me only $29 (v/s 75 from Radio Shack) and so far works like a charm, except for KMOV. I plan to put in a pre-amp to boost the signal. Since I live in the city, a small UHF antenna did the trick. Throughout my antenna ordeal, Doug (drop the remote) helped me a lot.

Calibration: Doug spent a good half of saturday tuning my TV. He was right on time, and spent the first few minutes explaining to me what he was doing. His visual explanation helped me understand a lot. I pretty much kept out of his way while he was doing his stuff (I was fixing the new antenna). Once in a while I used to interrupt to understand what he was doing. Unfortunately I did not take the "before" photos. I wish I had. He finished late afternoon and we sat down for a demo. Frankly it was a letdown. He showed me quite a few DVDs, and I was not very comfortable with the black levels. I found that the PQ was too dark. Doug assured me that it was normal for people to feel that way after a calibration, and I was not satisfied. He asked me to try out the settings for a few days and I was still not satisfied he would recalibrate for free. That sounded reasonable.

I was not able to watch TV that evening, and the next evening could not watch HDTV as the lakers game was on (semis - west conf). The first thing I noticed was the PQ of SD. I could actually "see" the game on SD. This stuck me as odd, as I was sure Doug did not calibrate for SD. I enjoyed the game and the PQ. I could actually see the boards and the reflections of the players on the floor. I flipped thru all the SD channels and all of them looked better. The next day we watched a movie on DVD, and I noticed a huge difference in PQ. I flipped to Discovery HD and I noticed that difference was like night and day. I was really happy. Doug followed up in a week to check on the status. I could not return his call, and he kept calling to know the status (impressed by his customer service). Long story short, go with Doug, he knows what he is doing. And it worth every dollar to calibrate.

End Note: I am not affliated with any of the companies/people I have recommended. However I would appreciate if you could tell them "Sam referred me". Once again, thanks to all of you and especially to Doug (droptheremote) for all the help and info. Doug, keep up the good work.

jedi35

06-03-04, 01:51 PM

I screwed up taping Fox2 news this morning(7-9am). Did anyone else get it? Wmschultz, did you get to tape it?

It's almost 1pm, and although I'm supposed to have another hour to go before my VOD download should be complete, I have a sneaking suspicion that it still won't work for me. We'll see.

tcfila

06-03-04, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
I'm supposed to have another hour to go before my VOD download should be complete, I have a sneaking suspicion that it still won't work for me. We'll see.

If not, "use the force"...it probably works as good as charter

jedi35

06-03-04, 02:26 PM

Great response, tcfila. Loved it!!

wmschultz

06-03-04, 07:06 PM

I screwed up taping Fox2 news this morning(7-9am). Did anyone else get it? Wmschultz, did you get to tape it?

I have it on Tivo..I need to transfer it.

Toeside

06-03-04, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by wmschultz
I have it on Tivo..I need to transfer it.

What was on Fox2 news this morning that was so important?

Craig

wmschultz

06-04-04, 09:30 AM

Some singer... Melissa Manchester

Bill787

06-04-04, 10:10 AM

A great singer . . . Melissa Manchester.

jedi35

06-04-04, 10:53 AM

wmschultz,

Wow, I'm so glad that you were able to cover the news for Mark. Have you let him know that you will have a tape for him?

wmschultz

06-04-04, 11:12 AM

Not yet. I am going to try to put it on DVD for the guy.

tcfila

06-04-04, 11:14 AM

4113,

Do you have any insight as to when VOD will be available for Lake St. Louis?

Tim

jedi35

06-04-04, 11:30 AM

Yet another VOD update:

A Charter rep just told me that they have now discovered that I have an earlier version of the 6200, and this older version is a "one-way box", which means that it is not addressable. In his opinion, this is the reason that I'm not able to enjoy VOD. They are coming out next Tues. morning to bring me a new box at no charge, and I should be able to enjoy all VOD services then. The saga continues. I'll try to find out as much info as I can when the guy comes out, because I want to save everyone else from going through this same problem if they want VOD.

tcfila

06-04-04, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by jedi35
Yet another VOD update:

A Charter rep just told me that they have now discovered that I have an earlier version of the 6200, and this older version is a "one-way box", which means that it is not addressable. In his opinion, this is the reason that I'm not able to enjoy VOD. They are coming out next Tues. morning to bring me a new box at no charge, and I should be able to enjoy all VOD services then. The saga continues. I'll try to find out as much info as I can when the guy comes out, because I want to save everyone else from going through this same problem if they want VOD.

I've been told that in Lake St. Louis that we can only use the "one way" box because of something in the head end. Maybe thats my problem

DroptheRemote

06-04-04, 11:52 AM

GreatRat,

I just wanted to acknowledge your online endorsement and note for others here that your initial reaction to the aftermath of calibration is somewhat typical.

Actually I'd say that feelings about the picture being "too dark" is an issue with probably less than 25% of my customers, and I think the reason that the number is falling is because more and more customers have already heard -- either from talking with me or hearing it from other sources -- that this is one of the side effects of calibration.

So while most notice it, they aren't as thrown by it as someone who doesn't see it coming. That's why I encourage anyone who's a bit uneasy with the results to first try to acclimate themselves, with the ultimate fallback that I'd return and rework the calibration by elevating the black and white levels. FWIW, after doing more than 150 calibrations, I've only had to recalibrate on two occasions.

It's also interesting that you notice a difference in the SD channels. This is because of the fact that the 480i standard-def source material is being scaled to the set's 720p native resolution. So, while I didn't explicitly calibrate for non-HD channels (instead focusing on DVD and HD sources) some of the benefits of HD calibration carry over to those upconverted NTSC channels. Of course, SD channels, upconverted or not, are never going to be confused with native HD programming, but it is definitely possible to make them look better.

Finally, a word to anyone who's thinking about calibration, or who has been on the fence about it. As someone who makes my living from this business, I know that the first obstacle is the pocketbook and that that's the most difficult barrier to cross -- you can either bear the cost or you can't.

However, I've also come to appreciate over the past couple of years that there's the "500-pound-gorilla" issue of low expectations, fostered by years of consumers staring at and being conditioned by poor quality NTSC cable and satellite pictures. As a result, "better than bad" seems a lot better than it really is. For me, "better than bad" explains why even the worst-managed Best Buy or Circuit City can impress the majority of first-time shoppers for digital HDTVs.

The bottom line is that consumers have within reach picture quality that is as good as or even better than the very best cinema experience. We've got access to the display technologies and we've also got the high-quality source material in DVD and HD programming.

Calibration is the missing link.