St Louis Tower Maps

For anyone doing the initial install of an OTA antenna, or anyone looking to fine-tune the positioning of their existing antenna, the attached ZIP files at the end of this message contain maps showing the tower location for each digital station in St. Louis. Pick the ZIP file(s) most appropriate to your location, using downtown St. Louis as your reference point.

Note that there are three digital television towers that are clustered closely together -- KDNL, KPLR and KSDK (going from north to south). The limitations of the mapping software I used prevented me from making the labels visible for all three of these towers. However, there are flags indicating each of these towers, and all other towers and labels should be readable.

If you have any questions on the tower maps, feel free to send me a private message...

Your Right to Erect an Antenna and/or Satellite Dish

As more and more consumers purchase high-definition displays, there's increasing interest in arranging for receipt of HD programming via an over-the-air antenna or through a satellite dish.

Unfortunately with the proliferation of cable television in the 1980s and 1990s, many communities, property developers and homeowner/condo owner associations tried to undo the visual blight of antennas (and later, satellite dishes) from their local skylines. While these laws, rules or convenants were well-intended -- after all, it would be difficult to argue for the cosmetic benefits of a yagi antenna -- these actions are not legally enforceable.

The FCC has ruled -- with only a few very narrow exceptions -- that you have the right to receive over-the-air television and radio broadcasts and as a result you have a right to erect an antenna to receive these signals. This ruling also encompasses the erection of small satellite dishes.

Even if you have previously signed a lease or homeower association convenant that requires you to forego the right to erect an antenna or satellite dishes, the FCC has ruled that these types of provisions are unenforceable.

In general, there are only a few notable exceptions to this rule:

* First, the location of the antenna or dish must be an "exclusive use" area. As a homeowner or condominium owner, this would mean any part of the property over which you have control. For renters, this would also apply to balconies or patios that are intended solely for your use. The sort of rental property area that would not be covered would be general use areas, such as common passageways or rooftop areas that are clearly intended for the shared use of all residents.

* Second, the antenna or dish cannot be erected in areas that would create a legitimate safety issue, for example one that is dangling off a balcony or placed too close to electrical wiring.

* Third, there may be restrictions if you are located in a designated historical (or prehistorical) district, in which case a permit may be required.

The other major limitation is that these devices cannot exceed 1 meter (39.37 inches) in diameter.

The burden of proof in contesting your right to mount a dish and/or antenna rests with the landlord, homeowner association, city council, etc. Strictly speaking, you do not need to seek prior permission or provide prior notice, so long as the device is to be situated in an area under your control and there is no obvious safety issue.

However, before taking on the expense and effort of such an installation, you should read and review in its entirety the following summary of the FCC ruling on consumer rights to mount over-the-air devices:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Also, the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association recently launched an initiative to help installers and satellite TV viewers protect their right to install satellite dishes. The SBCA online forum allows individuals to submit to the association any problems from governmental and non-governmental entities (such as homeowner's associations) concerning their right to install outdoor reception equipment.

The SBCA form can be accessed at: http://www.sbca.com/otard/default.htm


Feedback to St. Louis Stations

Is there something that you're unhappy about concerning the digital broadcasts by local St. Louis stations?

Weird-looking presentation of standard-definition programming? Multiple channel bugs cluttering up those beautiful images? Somebody at the station forgot to "flip the switch" before or during the middle of your favorite HD program?

Or better yet, maybe you'd just like to send your thanks and encouragement to your favorite local station for the effort they've made so far in providing us with more and better HD programming. The cost and effort in providing digital and HD programming is significant, and it's important for the station owners and management to know that we're watching.

Well, here's the place where you can find the online addresses where you can send your comments and feedback.


KTVI Channel 2 contact:
ktvitech@fox2ktvi.com

Don Rockwell (tech contact)
(314) 644-7425

KMOV Channel 4 contact:
programs@kmov.com
WNichol@kmov.com

KSDK Channel 5 contact:
Dave Hummert (chief engineer)
dhummert@ksdk.gannett.com

Lynn Beall (station manager)
lbeall@ksdk.gannett.com

KETC Channel 9 contact:
letters@ketc.org

KPLR Channel 11 contact:
whatson@wb11tv.com
technical@wb11tv.com

KDNL Channel 30 contact:
jwright@kdnl.sbgnet.com

WRBU Channel 46 contact:
[no email available & no website]

Fox Sports Midwest:
midwest@foxsports.net

Feedback to Charter Communications

Joseph Stackhouse
Senior Vice President, Customer Operations
Charter Communications
12405 Powerscourt Drive
St. Louis, MO 63131
Phone: (314) 965-0555

Anyone have any suggestions for a widescreen HDTV that is around 40 inches or less? I have my 51 Toshiba but need something for a cabinet upstairs....

The Loewe TVs are awesome. We're planning to buy the Loewe Aventos 30" widescreen for the bedroom. They do have a direct view in 38".

You can see them over at Music For Pleasure on Big Bend. I've bought tons of stuff from them, including my Arcam/Dynaudio surround system. I recommend this place highly. They also have the Sammy DLPs.

Hello all.
I'm Derek.
Just joined the forum. I been reading all the info here lately, and hope to be part of the local HDTV group soon.
I have been thinking about getting a Sony KF50WE610 and upgrading my Dishnetwork to HD.
Thanks for all the great info and i'll be checking in now and then.

I can't wait to see the Illini in HD tonight. Hopefully, they pound UNC like last year.

Also, I'd like to mention that I've moved out of the St. Louis area. I didn't post a whole lot on this forum, but I read it quite often. Anyway, I'm down in Houston now, and I thought I'd post some info on how hd is down here.

I have TWC and get the inhd channels, discovery, as well as all the locals in HD through digital cable. The network affliates down here don't crop and zoom any of the upconvert stuff on the HD channels, which is great. The CBS HD football games look horrible, though, through digital cables. The pixelation is very, very apparent with any motion. MNF just blows it away. And, back home in StL I always thought CBS was so much better. I wonder if TWC is compressing the CBS feed, I haven't put up an antenna, yet, to compare, so I can't really say. Unfortunately, TWC doesn't have espn-hd, so I'll need to put up my dish for that. But, I had planned on doing that anyway for Rams games, Cards games, and Illini basketball.

So any other DISH 811s scheduled for instalation in the STL area in the near term?
I ordered mine this morning, they offered to install on the 8th, but I asked
if I could push it back to a Saturday install instead. (Although I don't know
what in the world there is to "install", it's not like I'm going to let the guy touch
my other equipment. It's just a box for cryin' out loud. But even after being
insistent, they would NOT just ship me the box. They said THEY had to install it.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )

Please tell us about the new 811 once you get it installed. I have a DTC-100 now and am seriously thinking about ditching it and going to E*. Specifically I am curious if the HD tuner is better in the 811, and how well the 811 does upconverting SD material.

BTW, I am having all kinds of trouble getting 35 and was wondering if anyone here might know why. With me located in St. Peters, the 35 tower should be in between the 31 and 56 towers (which both come in fine) so it doesn't make sense that I'm having so much trouble with 35. I have RS 80" yagi antenna mounted in the attic and pointed at roughly 140degrees. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Yes. I called this morning and they scheduled me for an install the morning of 12/8. I requested the install changed to 12/9 so I can check out Charlie Chat on Monday night and make sure I'm not missing out on anything else (921) and have the opportunity to cancel.

About the installation: Here's how I look at it even though I won't let Bubba touch any of my stuff. If you have DishPro LNBs and a 3/4 Switch, there's really nothing to install. If you want, you can "hide" your existing 3/4 Switch and have the installer install or give you another one. You can keep the second one as a spare or sell on eBay.

--Phoenician


Originally posted by zvogt
So any other DISH 811s scheduled for instalation in the STL area in the near term?
I ordered mine this morning, they offered to install on the 8th, but I asked
if I could push it back to a Saturday install instead. (Although I don't know
what in the world there is to "install", it's not like I'm going to let the guy touch
my other equipment. It's just a box for cryin' out loud. But even after being
insistent, they would NOT just ship me the box. They said THEY had to install it.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )

From what we've heard from Beta testers, the 811 has a much better tuner that deals well with multipath issues. It also has the ability to output HD & SD simultaneously.

About your troubles with 35, I would guess it is a multipath problem. It seems a lot of people have been having problems when trees lost their leaves. You would think the signal would be better but it appears digital signal might be deflecting off tree branches and creating multipath issues mostly with 480i/p and 1080i signals. 720p signals don't seem as vulnerable.

--Phoenician

Originally posted by STL
Please tell us about the new 811 once you get it installed. I have a DTC-100 now and am seriously thinking about ditching it and going to E*. Specifically I am curious if the HD tuner is better in the 811, and how well the 811 does upconverting SD material.

BTW, I am having all kinds of trouble getting 35 and was wondering if anyone here might know why. With me located in St. Peters, the 35 tower should be in between the 31 and 56 towers (which both come in fine) so it doesn't make sense that I'm having so much trouble with 35. I have RS 80" yagi antenna mounted in the attic and pointed at roughly 140degrees. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Anyone able to get the digital Ubn 46-1 station, I get a good signal on the regular ota.

I'm new to this forum but I have reviewed the last few months of the St. Louis HDTV thread. I have just purchased a HIT 57s500 rptv. Currently just have a dvd connected. Have no cable or dish. Based on my research I have decided to get Dishnetwork 811, HD package and OTA antenna. I spoke to a local Dish dealer and they insisted that I could get local channels in HD off of the satellite. I made sure that he knew I was referring to HD not just digital but he said that I just needed to get a second dish. I then askedhim about just getting an antenna to get local HD programming and he said that I could do it that way also. THis doesn't jive with my understanding of the current state of things in HD. Am I correct in believing that local HD is only available OTA? I am not considering cable as a solution at all but that is a different story.

Anyway, assuming I am correct on the Local HD issue I question this particular dealers ability to install and align a new dish and antenna solution for me. THe dealer has been in business for a while and I thought they would be reliable. Can anyone recommend a reliable dealer that can install Dish network and a OTA antenna?

Originally posted by Geo_Scouter
Anyway, assuming I am correct on the Local HD issue I question this particular dealers ability to install and align a new dish and antenna solution for me. THe dealer has been in business for a while and I thought they would be reliable. Can anyone recommend a reliable dealer that can install Dish network and a OTA antenna?

I've used Brian Morris, Imagine Multimedia twice (condo, then new house) to install DirecTV dish and OTA antenna, and have been very happy. He persisted until everything was working correctly, returning several times to tweak/improve the setup until it was right.

I don't know if he handles Dish Net, but you can ask.

Imagine Multimedia, 314-503-3033

Tell him Dean sent you.

Originally posted by Phoenician
About your troubles with 35, I would guess it is a multipath problem. It seems a lot of people have been having problems when trees lost their leaves. You would think the signal would be better but it appears digital signal might be deflecting off tree branches and creating multipath issues mostly with 480i/p and 1080i signals. 720p signals don't seem as vulnerable. Just to clarify, my problem was there before the trees lost their leaves.

Also, I heard one big difference between the 811 and old 6000 is that the 811 supports HDCP (and can be commanded to downrez the component outputs) whereas the 6000 doesn't.

I have a question about the local UPN her in St Louis. I know they are a digital broadcast, at least my receiver flashes "digital sound" ballon. Now the ?. Do they ever broadcast HD? Seems every time I tune in my receiver show the program as SD.

Does anyone have the full story on this?

Thanks.

The local UPN is strictly SD. I had trouble pulling in their signal before my Mits was upgraded to the Promise Module which apparently was a lot better than the Mits STB I was using. I believe that several people including myself have tried to urge them to handle HD, but no answer.
Realistically, with only two programs from UPN in HD it probably isn't cost effective for KRBU to spend the money for HD equipment.

Here ya go Doug:

http://broadband.motorola.com/hdtv/dct5100.html

zvogt,

My 811 install is scheduled for Saturday AM, and I haven't gotten the dreaded cancellation call yet.

Cheers,

Good timing on the install.
We'll get a chance to see your freshly installed 811
tomorrow afternoon.
Have you signed up for E*'s highdef offerings?
Even if you haven't, there are things I'm interested
in seeing, such as the program guide.

zvogt,

Right now I'm on edge. The projector is supposed to ship to me today for delivery overnight.

If anyone has a projector and can bring it along easily, it might not be a bad idea as a CYA.

If mine gets in, it'll be installed. I'll have an answer mid-afternoon confirming shipping.

In a worst case scenario, I'll drag the 6000 downstairs.

For sources I will have:
Denon DV-5900 for SACD + DVD
Meridian 598DP for DVD-Audio + DVD
JVC HM-D3000U for D-VHS (5 movies should be here today)
Dish 6000 or 811

The one thing I don't have (or want) is an HTPC. I spend too much of my professional life with them, and I want to be away from them in my fun time :D

Cheers,

Originally posted by John Kotches
Right now I'm on edge. The projector is supposed to ship to me today for delivery overnight.

Goodness, you are cutting it close, aren't ya?
I don't think I'd even WANT to show off my stuff when it was that new.
I'd want a chance to enjoy it all by myself for a few weeks first.
Give myself a chance to tweak out all the bugs.

Oh well, too late to back out now ;)

z,


Mr. Donigan is coming through with his new X1.

I hadn't intended to cut it this close, but... I was stupid in waiting on Optoma for the "in two weeks" H76.

Had I known a month ago, I'd be in a much better position now, but life goes on.

Cheers,

Doug and everyone else that attended,

Thanks for showing up :D

It was my pleasure to host, and out of all the madness, I got a catchy and fun name for the HT Room. Somehow the "Granite City Cave Theater" doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

CHeers,

First of all, Huge thanks to John Kotches!

The guy has an excellent setup, very professional looking, and was a gracious host. Well timed breaks, plenty of sources and materials, and good munchies round up a very well done Get Together.

Got to meet several other St. Louisans HT users, very diverse group with diverse set of equipments as well :). My personal highlight of yesterday was Moulin Rouge on DVHS - I've never seen anything better looking - and this is on an uncalibrated X1 to boot. Thanks John for giving me the chance to see something that good.

I think the secret star is John Donigan, who brought his literally brand new X1 over to save the day! Kudos (and apologies) to John who I overlooked in my earlier thank you!

I understand what the buzz over the X1 is. When you consider the price tag, it's an unbelivably good entry to the world of FPTV.

My only goal was accomplished, which is to dispel the myth that a quality HT reproduction system isn't capable of reproducing music well :)

BTW, something to be pointed out is that anyone in the area willing should host a G2G. There is no need to be concerned about "how good" anyone's system is. This is a hobby first and foremost, and we shouldn't lose sight of this. Besides, my HT is my mid-life crisis -- instead of buying a sports car and having a fling with a woman 18 years younger than myself I'm doing this :D

Cheers,

It was a lot of fun and was great to meet and speak with fellow enthusiasts. The X1 is definetely the bang for buck king and a great entry level projector. It used to be entry level was $2500 or over with crappy internal scalers needing HTPC pixel mapping and all kinds of fun black out mods and such. No longer. I would definetely steer someone with HDTV in mind to a higher resolution PJ if within their budget, but for DVD and SD, it does a very admirable job. It looks surprisingly good with HD, but you definetely start to see the limitations of the native 800x600 resolution though. I find the ever so slight LCD defocus trick helps with screen door on this pj (I told 2 friends to buy them so have played with it a bit). It was very cool of him to bring it for everyone to enjoy. Hope my comments are not taken in a negative way. :)

The audio was excellent (as I expected), and the Meridian tri-processing was sweet. I am working on my wife to "permit me" to do one after the holidays. We shall see. :)

Thanks again John!

Hi all,
I am new to the world of HDTV. I just got an HDTV receiver and this antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-1880) from RadioShack. The only local channels I am not able to get in are FOX and PBS. FOX's signal drops off every few seconds and PBS isn't coming in at all.

Anyone else have trouble getting a signal from these channels? I live in Shrewsbury (63119) and I'd prefer stick with an indoor antenna. Antennaweb says that FOX and PBS would need a small multi-directional antenna from my house.

Right now I have a Samsung T351 receiver and will be going to an 811 in the next couple weeks.

Can't wat for MNF!

BTW, this is not the meet area, but seems to be the local hangout, so I would very humbly suggest a meet maybe every quarter at most. This assumes we have a limited number of willing or able hosts hence limited number of meets available, and ensures people do not get burned out too fast or end up in trouble with the significant other (I am on short leash and kitchen passes are not a weekly handout). :)

slusig,

I had the triple bow tie indoor setup with no amplifier, and could not pull anything (big surprise). This antenna of yours seems to be powered, but I have my doubts about indoor reception. If you are missing PBS and Fox only, maybe it is your location. Did you check antennaweb.org for your address relative to the towers? I assume you move the antenna around and just can't grab it.

Wish I could have been at the latest meeting but I am in and out of town this month. I head to Chicago for Crestron tomorrow. Right now I am planning on having a get together at the Chesterfield Sound Room in February, probably a week or two after the Super Bowl. Any time prior to that just isn't practical for us between the holidays and the Rams playing well!

SLUSIG, If anything you are too close to the towers and the signals may be going overhead. I live in Rock Hill (63144) and had to add to an outdoor antenna because the KMOV signal was going just above my antenna. I think you will have to forget an indoor antenna if you want all stations.

I too wish to thank John for the hospitality.
Havin' A/V equipment to show off is one thing,
but John didn't stop there. He had a hell of spread
of refreshments and the whole bit.
John, you're a hell of a host.
Way to go, and way to set the bar so high ;)
(in hosting duties and equipment)

~Zac

Does anyone definitively know how the Charter HD STBs are outputting programming that originates as 4x3 480i programming, such as cable channels CNN, ESPN (SD), History Channel, The Food Network, etc.?

From reviewing the Motorola user manual, I see that there is a 4x3 Override setting that allows the user to specify how 4x3 broadcasts are displayed. Unfortunately, this setting is apparently not accessible through the Charter interface.

As a result, I have two questions:

1. How has Charter configured these boxes for 4x3 programming display, in terms of scan rate (480i, 480p, something else)?

2. Is there a way to change this option via the Charter interface?

Thanks in advance for any information or suggestions.



Doug, that override setting is available via the Motorola box itself, not within Charter's cable menu.

To access that menu, turn ON your television, power OFF the motorola box, then PRESS & HOLD the 'menu' button on the motorola....the menu will pop right up.

lol @ Doug...

When I got this Motorola box I spent a few days scouring the net for information....

Hopefully Charter gets more HD channels asap, or i will soon be known for my Dishnet knowledge!

Does anyone know if the Charter Motorola box has RGB (or DVI-I) out? I heard that the newer boxes has it, but it's not activated. I have a CRT PJ, and need analog RGB, and can't do component either.

Any info on this is appreciated.

811 installed last night

Not receiving Fox - low signal strength. Will reconnect my T165 to compare. KMOV appears to be off the air this morning? Getting audio feedback when changing between OTA channels. Overall the box is better than the 6000, but the missing features need to go - primarily the lack of stretch modes.

Compared to Charter - until Charter gets all the locals and allows you to map the locals (I really hate going to the 700s to find a local channel) - I think sat might have the advantage for me.

Not to mention the fact that my wife now hates Charter due to their customer service (actually had one person at the Maryville office shove her badge in my wife's face...)

Chris

Originally posted by budiman
Does anyone know if the Charter Motorola box has RGB (or DVI-I) out? I heard that the newer boxes has it, but it's not activated. I have a CRT PJ, and need analog RGB, and can't do component either.

Any info on this is appreciated.



The Motorola DCT5100 DOES have dvi-out.

You can see the user guide and other useful info here: http://broadband.motorola.com/hdtv/dct5100.html

BudShark,
When did you order your 811?

811 was ordered on Dec. 4th...

Not bad for turnaround. They also upgraded my old legacy infrastructure to a full RG6 DishPro setup.

Oh and I got a Dish 322 (one receiver 2 outputs - it really is nice to have a TV only in the bedroom, no receiver. The receiver sits in the basement and controls the TV downstairs - and the 2nd output is an RG6 stereo out with a UHF remote to control it). If you haven't seen the Dish 322 and 522 - they are the wave of the future. One receiver, two separate outputs and tuning - and you only get charged for the one receiver, not the two TVs...

chris

The 5100 manual says what may be on the box, ports can be left off, and often is per provider. I think Charter supplied does not have it. I gave an accounting of the ports physically on the Charter given unit in the October thread, and am at work so cannot check now.

budiman,
I use a CTCA2 knock-off transcoder, which works fairly well with my CRT M8000 and 5100. Check the transcoder threads in the CRT section for details. The knock off is roughly $65.00 and identical to Key Digital $200.00 close out one. PM me if you want more details, and I will send you info tonight.

Originally posted by BudShark
KMOV appears to be off the air this morning?
Chris [/B]
KMOV is out for me too, just confirming with the rest of you that its stationside and not reception based.

I am counting the days until April for my firewire enabled Charter box. :) Will they be ready to meet this mandate? What happens if they don't? I have my hack Japanese DVHS emulation software zip files waiting for installation. :) Woo hoo! Watching HD movies at my convenience will rock! Hope it works!

"Wait a tic"

Never heard that one.. where you from?

I sent email to KSDK (NBC) about their video lagging their audio on OTA. Another member using both MyHD and Dish 6000 to pull the OTA sees the problem as well, so it is not just me. Anyone else see this? It is most noticeable on (but not limited to) Leno, especially when you watch music guests as they hold notes longer. Watch the mouths and tell me if I am crazy please. Email them with the provided contact email addresses in earlier posts if you see it and it bugs you.

I ordered the 811 three weeks ago. They scheduled the install for 12/12. Now they say they don't have them in stock and I'll have to reschedule again. Your fortunate BudShark!

I tried to tune in KMOV-DT for CSI:Miami and I'm getting 0 signal.

Is it down for anyone else, or is there something wrong at my end? Other DT stations are up and running just fine.

Cheers,

Hey I emailed KMOV, this is the response I got:

--------------------------
We have been off the air most of the day doing some work on the transmitter cooling equipment. We returned to the air about 3:30 PM today.

We are, and have been, broadcasting at 2/3 power since last Saturday. We will probably not be back to full power for another week.


Walt
--------------------

Caerie

BudShark,
How is the upconvert of SD satellite channels with the 811 (compared to the 6000)? Or do use use S-video out for SD channels and let you TV do the upconvert? I am curious because I hear the line doubler in the 6000 is pretty crappy. I currently have a RCA DTC-100 (and D*) which has a better line doubler than my Mits 55807 HDTV, and I am thinking about going to E* and the 811 -- but I don't want to take a hit on picture quality of the SD channels. I do realize that the biggest problem with SD satellite channels is over-compression, but adding a sub-par line doubler to the equation can make it even worse.

I'm still having issues with KMOV-DT this AM -- 0% on both the 811 and 6000.

Cheers,

Anyone know if there is a market for slightly used HD STBs? I have a Zenith DTV1080 that I plan on selling but have not seen much action on Ebay for this model.

Is Ebay the right way to go or is there a local (St. Louis) route that is preferred?

(I know this is a bit off-topic but I was hoping a St. Louis HD user might have some experience in this area).

Thanks
DQ

I'll give you $100 for it and even pick it up myself.

What kind of goofiness is up with WB11?
There are two distinct KPLR digital broadcasts running concurrently right now.
One mapped to 11-1, and another simultaneous stream mapping to 75-1.

I returned the $50 "HDTV" antenna to Radioshack and picked up the $3 UHF bowtie. Now FOX is coming in perfectly, but I am still not getting anything from PBS. I am just glad I can get FOX for Rams games.

BTW, for anyone that has gotten the 811 installed, what do you think? I am scheduled to get it installed next Thursday. I am hearing less than positive reviews from people on the forums. I am rethinking the one year commitment. It may be time to switch to Direct TV.

John,

Good luck on the movie tomorrow night! (You can tell me how much better your projector is!) :D

John,

Resolution is better... all else is TBD ;)

FOr a 1K projector the X1 really rocks. It should be making the big boys very nervous IMO.

Cheers,

I have been looking at the Dell 3200MP DLP Projector which you can get for $1349. It does 16:9 aspect ratio along with 1080i, 720p, 480i/p. It has an image contrast ratio 1800:1 and image size adjustable from 24.8" to 292.8" (Diagonal). 1300 ANSI lumens. Supports both Component and VGA. It has native XGA (1024x768) resolution with auto sync to UXGA (1600x1200).

What do you think in comparison to the X1 or any other popular HD projectors. The 16:9 ratio is a must for me.

Originally posted by John Kotches
John,

Resolution is better... all else is TBD ;)

FOr a 1K projector the X1 really rocks. It should be making the big boys very nervous IMO.

Cheers,

Originally posted by zvogt
What kind of goofiness is up with WB11?
There are two distinct KPLR digital broadcasts running concurrently right now.
One mapped to 11-1, and another simultaneous stream mapping to 75-1.


I noticed this as well. ONE one tree hill is MORE than enough IMHO :D

Anyone know what is going on with KPLR? I almost got excited! A new HD channel!! Then the dissapointment when I realized it was KPLR's twin...

Phoenician,

I don't know much about the Dell projector you've cited, but I'd suggest that you refer to www.projectorcentral.com as a place to find a review and maybe owner feedback.

It appears that the Dell is still a 4x3 chip (like the X1), which likely means that when it's displaying widescreen material that you're not going to be making use of some of the pixels.

It also appears that this projector was designed with the presentation market in mind. That's usually an indicator that maximizing light output is the primary objective over home theater issues such as color balance, black levels, etc. That's not always the case, but that should be the starting point for your evaluation.

In July I purchased a 51SWX20B from Ultimate at a great price. Well it died the week before Thanksgiving. I've been sufferring without HD since, and found out yesterday that the CRT that died was backordered and probably wouldn't be installed until after 1/1/04!

Needless to say we called UE. They offerred several options, all reasonable. We took them up on their offer of a full return for credit towards another set. I'm expecting my new 57S700 to be installed on Friday between 11 - 2!

One thing about UE - they do always strive to help the customer. This is the 3rd time we've bought something major from them, and all 3 times they provided excellent service. Yes, sometimes there are issues with any store, but my experience with UE has been excellent.

I'm excited about my new set - I'll finally be able to see how HD looks on my 811! Also, the S700 has a built in tuner and firewire out - so if anyone wants a slightly (and I mean slightly) used T165 let me know - otherwise it goes up on ebay in a week.

Chris

Just wondering if anyone knows of any news from Charter regarding adding new HD channels. An installer told me a few weeks ago that something should be announced around the first of the year, and they were negotiating with ESPN and DISCOVERY. Because of trees, satellite is not really an option for me. So, I am limited to Charter. I am very happy with picture quality, but they need ABC, CBS, etc.

oby,

I currently have Charter HD as well and am also growing frustrated with the lack of channels - Im personally giving them until mid-Jan. If I see no more HD channels, Dishnet will be my choice.

You would think that Charter would want to keep customers, not drive them away.....

Originally posted by BudShark
if anyone wants a slightly (and I mean slightly) used T165 let me know - otherwise it goes up on ebay in a week.

Firewire is nothing to sneeze at.
Anyone in the area that sees Chris's post should really consider making Chris an offer.
I already own a T165 myself so I can't help him out, but it would be a shame if it ends up
going the eBay route when it was offered here first.
It would be nice if it could be given a good home by one of our own.

STL HDers unite. :D

Originally posted by BudShark
I'm excited about my new set - I'll finally be able to see how HD looks on my 811! Also, the S700 has a built in tuner and firewire out - so if anyone wants a slightly (and I mean slightly) used T165 let me know - otherwise it goes up on ebay in a week.


I'm interested; will PM re details.

Heh. It'd be nice to actually watch HD on my HDTV :)

Edit: email at:
bastet underscore lady at yahoo dot com

can someone provide a link to information on the T165?

Here's the link:

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=SIRT165X%2fXAA

im interested in the T165 - contact me at abcward@yahoo.com and we'll discuss.

811 owners,

How is the upconvert of SD satellite channels with the 811 (compared to the 6000 or a DTC-100)? Or do use use S-video out for SD channels and let you TV do the upconvert? I am curious because I hear the line doubler in the 6000 is pretty crappy. I currently have a RCA DTC-100 (and D*) which seems to have a better line doubler than my Mits 55807 HDTV, and I am thinking about going to E* and the 811 -- but I don't want to take a hit on picture quality of the SD channels. I do realize that the biggest problem with SD satellite channels is over-compression, but adding a sub-par line doubler to the equation can make it even worse.

FWIW, I don't know if anyone else has noticed or commented on this, but KSDK is starting to run locally produced promotions about its HD programming.

And oddly enough, the HD promo clip was in SD. :(

I've only seen this once (during Wednesday evening's Leno) and most of this focused on NBC HD shows, but it also seemed like they were creating the impression that local news was going to be in HD.

Frankly, I'd have no problem if the local news remained in NTSC until the next millenium. But it's good to see a local station making an active effort to promote HD and build their HD audience.

I noticed tonight that KSDK is starting to tout HDTV and mentions that information is available on its website. It is about time that a local station and not just a network starts spreading the word. Of course it is to promote their own network, but at least it is a start.

Doug,

It might help if they don't keep messing up the HD broadcasts. Once again ER was not properly broadcast in HD. Many times they forget to flip the switch, broadcast in 4:3, bad upconvert, etc.... It's amazing the incompetence at that station. They should take a hard look and KMOV and KDNL and see how HD is supposed to be broadcast.

--Phoenician

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
FWIW, I don't know if anyone else has noticed or commented on this, but KSDK is starting to run locally produced promotions about its HD programming.

And oddly enough, the HD promo clip was in SD. :(

I've only seen this once (during Wednesday evening's Leno) and most of this focused on NBC HD shows, but it also seemed like they were creating the impression that local news was going to be in HD.

Frankly, I'd have no problem if the local news remained in NTSC until the next millenium. But it's good to see a local station making an active effort to promote HD and build their HD audience.

Apparently E.R. was not in HD Thursday night:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336932

So, this time KSDK gets a free pass. But I agree that they do the worst job of "switch flipping" in this market.

Hopefully the Chief Switch Flipper got the memo about the promo...

BTW, I wanted to add here that KPLR does a great job of handling HD broadcasts, especially for a smaller operation. They deserve a lot of credit for stepping up to get HD on the air and handling it in a completely professional way.

Does anyone know if PBS and WB-11 are transmitting at full power? I get all the other St. Louis Digital stations with no problem.

In addition to kplr mapping to 75-1 it also seems that their signal format has changed. I used to get the black side bars "in the signal" and i could not stretch it to fit the widescreen. Now all of a sudden the default is stretched to widescreen and pressing "4x3" on the remote places gray sidebars to correct the picture to 4x3 format.

Also It seems that kplr is now filling out the program guide properly. Before now it seems that KMOV was the only station in St. Louis bothering to fill out the guide. Most stations still don't even have the time set right in the info they send.

Dave

Originally posted by daveinstl
I used to get the black side bars "in the signal" and i could not stretch it to fit the widescreen. Now all of a sudden the default is stretched to widescreen and pressing "4x3" on the remote places gray sidebars to correct the picture to 4x3 format.

Really?? This doesn't sound right. I don't remember ever getting black bars
"in the signal" with KPLR as I do with the other digital stations.
Well maybe SD WB network programs had them and true local programming
did not. I wouldn't know, I've never watched a WB program.

Channel 5 , or NBC-HD, is also getting lots of publicity on Charter, as Charter runs commericials on the analog stations--emphasizing its' content as a reason to sign up for HD. Also, on its website Channel 5 says it is "proud" to be the "only" channel offered in HD by Charter. I hope they don't carry this distinction for a long time.

Count me in as one of their customers who is getting a little tired of waiting for new HD channels. I would think they would at least but out some publicity about some of the channels they are negotiating with for HD programing. Just my two cents.

I've been lurking for a few months now on a few of these threads. Found the STL thread by accident searching for some other topic. The AVSForum helped my wife and I in deciding on a Samsung HLN567W DLP screen and we've been very happy with the result. Thanks to you folks on this thread, I've been waiting patiently for Dish to come out with their new 811 HD receiver because I liked the fact it had a DVI connection and integrated OTA hookup. I haven't seen any recent posts on their special offers for existing customers and thought maybe I could offer something to the list. With a 1 year commitment to America's Top 50, I got the 811 for $199 plus I opted not to commit to credit card auto-payment which cost me another $24.95. So for a total of $223.95, I have an install date of Dec 19th. Now I need to get the OTA antenna installed in the attic and cabled down to the family room. I'll have to search back through the post for references to a good antenna to use. Is there also a difference in cabling? I'm located near the airport on a pretty high elevation with a two-story house. An attic install should work fine, shouldn't it? I appreciate all the info you guys have put out. I'd even be interested in joining the group for one of the get-togethers sometime. Thanks.

Originally posted by MyMonyPit
An attic install should work fine, shouldn't it?

Digital signals are very directional.
Depending which way the building faces relative to the towers
it might be a little optimistic to think an attic install will go without a hitch.
But it won't hurt to try.
Many in the forum swear by Channel Master antennas,
But if I were in the market for one, my first thought would
be to pop down to the local radio shack and buy a bargain
outdoor antenna.

**EDIT**
On second thought.
Doug here in the St. Louis sub-section of the forum has a source
for antennas I believe. And it would be good karma to throw a
little business to the local folks.

Welcome, MMP.

I think an attic install will probably work out OK for you. I think the bigger potential issue is your proximity to the airport, as someone recently reported reception problems that might be related to all the things going on there. I don't have any direct experience with that sort of environment, but wouldn't think the attic or roof mount option is going to make a major difference one way or another.

In general, a Channel Master or Winegard should be good. Others have reported good results with the Radio Shack antennas. Whatever you do, you should buy UHF-only, as that will result in better reception. All STL digitals are in the UHF band.

Do a search on Winegard, Channel Master (or CM4228) specifically for the OTA forum here. A good place to buy an antenna is Skywalker Communications in O'Fallon, though someone recently reported that they are having trouble getting CM stock.

RG-6 cable should do the trick -- also available at Skywalker for around $50 for a 1000-ft spool, though I appreciate that sort of quantity is likely to be overkill.

Wow Doug, you're FAST. :D

Originally posted by zvogt
Doug here in the St. Louis sub-section of the forum has a source
for antennas I believe. And it would be good karma to throw a
little business to the local folks.
Here, here -- by all means let's support local businesses...

[End of semi-shameless (but serious) pandering] :D

Zac,

I must have some sort of forum karma going just at the moment.

Last night wschwartz and I posted about the KSDK HD promos within seconds of each other.

Is anyone getting Enterprise on UPN in HD.

P8nter,
Not in St. Louis. The local UPN still isn't broadcasting HD. It's mentioned in earlier threads, but I think it may have been the October or November thread(some of the longest we've had in my memory).
Haven't seen you before, so welcome.
Dug

Mr_Bester,
Thanks, Ive been around for awhile, just not in this section much. Nice thread.

Rather than retype the info here, I'll just provide this link to the bad news about my LCoS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3050011#post3050011).
:(

Doug, I'll send you a PM to discuss what this may or may not mean about your visit.

I see a lot of breakups and audio drops on my Charter HD channels. My 5100 says it has solid 50 ("good") AGC and SNR fluctuates between 31 and 33 (between "good" and "fair"). I think these are decent numbers.

I have a triple splitter. 1st line on triple goes to a double with one set active off it. 2nd line goes to a TV, third goes to an amp, which in turn goes to another 1x2 splitter (HDTV is off this one). Quite the mess, but I put a cable drop in each room in my newly finished basement. All of them use RG6 with first tri-splitter (Charter provided) being 120db 5-100MHz splitter, the the amp is one of those RCA ones (50-900MHz), and the dual splitter to the 5100/HDTV is a 4db 1GHz splitter. I have a mix of gold and silver twist connectors I made myself on these cables (shielding over casing each one, with twist on over it).

Is something in my chain not up to spec for HDTV? Is there something I can check with a meter? Should I just call Charter? Anyone else have video breakup and audio drops?

Thanks in advance!

Hello Everyone,
I also have been lurking around for a several weeks. I recently visited a CC on a mission to buy a 32" Flat Tube and came home with a 50" RCA Plasma. Now I am fully engaged in replacing my home theater system.
My first question is which form of HD TV to subscribe to.
Currently I have DirecTivo, which of course, has no HDTV option. There is speculation that HD DirecTivo will be available as early as January '04 or as late as Dec '04.
I was considering buying a HNS HD DirecTV receiver for as a temporary solution but I hate to spend the $$ on something I am surely going to replace within a year.
Another option is to go Charter Digital cable but Charter is not offering HDTV in my area until February.
I guess my questions are:
Which produces a better signal DirecTv HD or Charter Digital Cable HD?
Can anyone suggest an inexpensive DirecTv HD Receiver with OTA capability?
Should I just buy an inexpensive OTA receiver as a stop gap?
Any and all comments welcome!

Originally posted by zvogt
What kind of goofiness is up with WB11?
There are two distinct KPLR digital broadcasts running concurrently right now.
One mapped to 11-1, and another simultaneous stream mapping to 75-1.
Hmm I can't seem to find the 75-1 channel, what is its UHF actual channel number? Channel 26 aka 11-1 is just showing a black screen to me, even though the channel signal is at 100%. :/

Wyse Guy,

Congrats on the RCA plasma. I just calibrated one of these on Tuesday and was surprised to find that it was, as best I could tell, electronically identical to the Pioneer Elite plasmas that I've calibrated -- and the Elites carry a $17,000 MSRP, though they more typically sell for around $10,000.

On the choice of HD sources, this is a tough question to answer definitively, but you'd be well-served spending an afternoon reading through the STL threads for the past couple of months. There's been a LOT of discussion on this subject here.

As far as image quality between Charter and DirecTV, I have DirecTV at home but based on what I have seen on customer calls, there's not a substantial difference between DTV and Charter. That might change over time, but for now the quality is very good regardless of which way you go.

The real issue, it seems, is quantity, and Charter seems to be doing its level best to leave customers to completely guess what its plans are for additional programming. It is supposed to begin charging for its HD package in the New Year, but I suspect that any attempt to do that without matching the DISH and DirecTV offering is going to result in defections.

Personally, I think you should just bite the bullet and buy a full-fledged DirecTV HD receiver and begin to really enjoy the investment you've made in your new display. When the DirecTivo HD box comes along, you can sell the old DTV HD box on eBay or by posting here. Maybe you lose $100 or $150 in the interim, but that cost is likely to be spread across at least 6 months.

With the impending approval of the DirecTV sale to News Corp. and the fact that News Corp. already has a relationship with a different PVR manufacturer, I suspect that the delivery of DirecTivo will get bogged down further.

Bear in mind, that's just my opinion, based on my own reading of what's happening with TiVo and DirecTV.

Thanks Doug!
I appreciate your input. I have been leaning toward "biting the bullet" with HD DirecTV and going with the HNS E86. DirecTV has a $399 special that seems to be a good deal.
I love my RCA Plasma. I have not seen any posts on the AVS forum discussing RCA so I was hesitant at first.
I would like your opinion on another question. The TV that I bought was a floor model (The price was too good to pass up at sub $4000). My best guess is that it was on display for around 9 months. Is there any testing I can do to insure that there is no burn in or other problems? So far I have not observed any anomalies in the picture quality. I still have 3 weeks to return it.

Thanks again!

Well I got an 811 DISH receiver this morning.
I'm pretty UNhappy with its performance.
The internal scaling of SD is sub-par
(actually it's possible that its on par and the scaler
in my previous HD tuner was just that much better
than average... anyway it performs worse than my
previous tuner in that department.)
Also the DVI output is awful. The whole picture is
shifted about 5% to the right, and there are sparklies
that are definitely coming out of that box. The DVI
cable itself does not introduce sparklies when connected
to my other DVI devices. Switching over to the component
outs of the 811 seemed to tame the worst of the problems
with PQ. It will be nice to have my satellite channels and
OTA channels consolidated to one program guide, and the
OTA module itself seems to be pretty good (I'm picking KNLC
now, which was too weak for my other box to lock on to,
and the signal strength percentages for all my other OTA
channels are a lot higher.)
But still, despite the couple bright spots, overall I'm unhappy
with the 811.

Wyse Guy,

You should definitely do a thorough check for burn in, as the Pioneers and the RCAs are very, very susceptible to this. I would be concerned about buying an open box for that reason.

The first time I calibrated one of these panels I saw this very clearly. It takes me about 45 minutes to get all of my equipment set up. One of the last things I did in that process on my first Pioneer plasma was to connect my HD signal generator, which defaults to the SMPTE color bar pattern when it powers up. Once the generator was in place, I took care of a couple of other set-up issues and then switched from the color bars to a grayscale window pattern. Although the color bars had been onscreen for no more than 10 minutes, they were clearly visible after switching to grayscale window. They eventually faded completely, but only after about 4 hours. I've also seen ghosts of the service menu icons after switching back into user mode. I believe that any static image left onscreen more than an hour would probably cause irreversible damage.

What's a little odd about the Pioneer/RCA plasmas is that the default setting for the user contrast control is the midpoint. Usually the manufacturers set contrast at the top level, and usually moving it back to or nominally below the midpoint is a more or less a safe level. But the Pioneer/RCAs are actually cranking out right around 80 footlamberts of light with the contrast at the center level. The optimal light level for a plasma is 24 to 28 fL.

I would suggest that you turn your contrast down to around 25%. I haven't actually determined what the correct level should be from the user side, as I always make these sort of adjustments in the service menu, leaving all the user controls at the center points. But 25% should be in the right general neighborhood...

OK -- to test your set for burn-in, you should get a copy of AVIA or Video Essentials and put up a 100 IRE field (full screen), not a 100 IRE window. Then do the same with a 10 IRE field. Either of these fields should show whether there is any burn-in. To be completely thorough it would also be worth putting up separate red, blue and green fields as this will show whether a particular color was overworked with a static image such as a menu, screen crawler background, or screen bug where one color was predominant.

I hope that you find that your plasma is free from burn-in. Assuming that's the case, you'll still need to be extremely conscientious about not leaving static images on this panel in future.

Originally posted by zvogt
Rather than retype the info here, I'll just provide this link to the bad news about my LCoS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3050011#post3050011).
:(

Doug, I'll send you a PM to discuss what this may or may not mean about your visit.

Wow, that's a serious bummer. I'm sorry to hear about that.

So are you thinking about replacing it with something else? I'm coming up on 9 months with my Samsung HLM617W DLP and it's been awesome, especially after getting the firmware upgraded and the DVD input ISF calibrated. If you want a fixed pixel display, you might consider one yourself.

Dean

zvogt,

I fully agree with you. I'm extremely unhappy with my 811 that I removed it and put my 6000 back until future software versions fix the current issues.

My biggest issue was actually OTA reception. On my 6000, I had pretty much everything between 90%-100% except for FOX which was 80%, KNLC 70% and WRBU 65%. Once I installed the 811, I lost Fox completely where the signal dropped to 49% and never locks in place. All other channels dropped by 10-15%.

Other issues include:
1 - DVI, Component, S-Video outputs are very dark
2 - Loss of stretch mode. 6000 has 5 different stretch modes by pushing the * key. 811 currently supports normal & zoom modes only.
3 - Lousy performance on SD channels (DVI, Component & S-Video)
4 - Audio glitches when switching between OTA, SD & HD channels. This only happens if the 811 is set to DD/PCM and using the Optical Toslink cable
5 - Jittery picture on local OTA SD channels, not Digital or HD.
6 - Problems with 480i SD digital signal. Namely FOX. This could also be a PSIP issue.
7 - Remote is UHF only although you can use your 6000 remote



Originally posted by zvogt
Well I got an 811 DISH receiver this morning.
I'm pretty UNhappy with its performance.
The internal scaling of SD is sub-par
(actually it's possible that its on par and the scaler
in my previous HD tuner was just that much better
than average... anyway it performs worse than my
previous tuner in that department.)
Also the DVI output is awful. The whole picture is
shifted about 5% to the right, and there are sparklies
that are definitely coming out of that box. The DVI
cable itself does not introduce sparklies when connected
to my other DVI devices. Switching over to the component
outs of the 811 seemed to tame the worst of the problems
with PQ. It will be nice to have my satellite channels and
OTA channels consolidated to one program guide, and the
OTA module itself seems to be pretty good (I'm picking KNLC
now, which was too weak for my other box to lock on to,
and the signal strength percentages for all my other OTA
channels are a lot higher.)
But still, despite the couple bright spots, overall I'm unhappy
with the 811.

Droptheremote,
Thanks for your advice and suggestions.
Following your advice, I braved the snow and crowds and drove to Borders Books where I purchased a DVE disk. After going through the calibration exercises, I feel much better about my purchase. I also tried the IRE Fields as you suggested. I could find no burn-in.
Next step... Convince the wife that I NEED HD DirecTV. I'll let you know how that goes.
Thanks for everything!

Wyse Guy,

Glad you found that info helpful.

Send me a private message or eMail if you have any other questions about the RCA.

Originally posted by Phoenician
Once I installed the 811, I lost Fox completely where the signal dropped to 49% and never locks in place.

Can we say bug? The 811 locks to exactly 49% for me as well.

The funny thing is that my Hitachi now has an internal tuner. It tunes Fox perfectly off the antenna feed, but can't get KPLR at all. Just goes to show this stuff is still pretty flaky - no perfect solution.

My biggest complaint with the 811 (above the no stretch modes) is that it is NOTHING more than a 6000 with a DVI output and colored guides. I know everyone said thats what it would be, but I was really surprised that the menu system and the onscreen guides were not updated to match the rest of the receivers. I got a 322 as well, and it is extremely nice - obviously the software development for the HD receivers is one group and the SD receivers is another - and they don't share (or even look at each others receivers).

Oh well - hopefully it will get updates... soon.

Chris

I'm sorry to hear the feedback on the 811. I was looking forward to it over the 6000 because of the DVI hookup. I'd like to try some HD signals on my Samsung DLP but I don't know. Do you guys think I ought to hold off on getting the 811?

Doug, I tried Skywalker Communications Saturday but they're not open on the weekend. I'll have to try them tommorrow.

I'm glad I oped for a 6000 for $125 a few weeks ago, doesn;t sound like the 811 is worth the extra cash. I hope the 921 works better than the 811.

I think once they update the software a few revisions, the 811 will be a very good receiver. There are just too many bugs and notice how the word "LAB" exists in the software version. That tell us the software is still in beta testing.

Now if you don't have an existing 6000 receiver, you can't really resist the $149 or $199 price depending on your account status with Dish. In time, the software bugs will be worked out to make it a pretty nice buy.


Originally posted by MyMonyPit
I'm sorry to hear the feedback on the 811. I was looking forward to it over the 6000 because of the DVI hookup. I'd like to try some HD signals on my Samsung DLP but I don't know. Do you guys think I ought to hold off on getting the 811?

Doug, I tried Skywalker Communications Saturday but they're not open on the weekend. I'll have to try them tommorrow.

zvogt,
What brand/model HD rec'r were you using before the 811 (since you commented that it had a better scalar)?

Phoenician,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to 6000 and any other HD rec'r you have used)?

BudShark,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to any other HD rec'r you have used)?


Thanks for the details you have already provided!

My previous tuner was the Samsung SIR T-165.
(The same model Chris has for sale... assuming it hasn't yet been sold.)

Gateway had an ad this Sunday for dishnetwork, I read the ad a couple of times and for $49.99 which you will receive a credit for the same amount on you first bill, you can get either a regular receiver, 811 receiver or the DVR dish an installation. So you can now get Dish Hd for $50!

I need some help from the city dwellers...Charter has said that my channel lineup will change on Wed. Based on experience, does anyone know how long after that it will be before I can order HD?

This has been the normal DISH deal for new subscribers
for a long long time. Up to three rooms free, and FOUR credits.
(The first for your original $49.99, and three more for your first
three months of programming.) And of course the deal requires
a 12 month commitment to programming.

zvogt, I did not know this, I thought the deal was always just for a regular receiver had I know this included the HD receiver I might have switched long ago.

Tcfila, where did you get this info...I received the channel card lineup around Aug stating the channels would change, an installer told me that as soon as the channel lineup changes then HD service should be available. Don't go by what the CSR says, they know nothing.

Originally posted by tcfila
I need some help from the city dwellers...Charter has said that my channel lineup will change on Wed. Based on experience, does anyone know how long after that it will be before I can order HD?

Does that mean that us current Charter HD customers MIGHT get a couple new channels??

ok, ok, im probably dreaming...

This morning on my Charter box was a little red light. It meant they sent me a message. I was thinking, maybe they are announcing new HD channels. That was wishful thinking. One message was about high speed internet, and the other message was about some new interactive feature. I have emailed Charter about additional HD channels, and I never get a response.

Originally posted by STL
BudShark,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to any other HD rec'r you have used)?



By scaler you are probably referring to how SD channels look? Haven't really looked at them due to the problem of no stretch modes.

I've used a T165, Charter's Moto5100, Hitachi internal tuner, and a Dish 6000.

The speed of the 811 matches the T165 and Hitachi in side to side comparison. Considering the 165 beat the 6000 hands down, that should give you some idea.
If they would fix the FOX issues, the 811 OTA reception would be good.

***RUMOR*** is that the first of several updates will be coming down tonight for the 811. This will fix the stretch modes and supposed to provide PSIP channel information. I'll let you know how it looks and works IF it does come down.

I will say that last night was my first ESPNHD football game (due to Charter not carrying ESPN and my Hitachi set breaking) - Looked fantastic. Very happy with ESPNHD quality on Dish.

Chris

I have a question about the Motorola 5100 that comes from charter. I have a digital cable going from the box to the receiver. On the receiver I have selected auto as my signal selection. Now the sounds goes way up on some channels and goes down on the digital channels. Is there anyway I can correct his sound problem without constantly turning the volume up and down? Is there anything such as bass management on the receiver? I know you guys will have the answer. Whoever gives the right answer might get some Christmas cookies from my wife since this is driving her crazy.

STLouG,

I see the same issue - for example: HD channels are generally lower in volume that normal cable channels. I will scour my 5100 manual to see if there is a solution.

As of today, I think both the 6000 and 811 have a similar "scalar" when it comes to SD Channels. It's difficult to compare since the strech mode feature does not work on the 811 and the 811 still displays a darker picture.

I also have a MyHD 120 HTPC Card and the OTA HD reception on it is fantastic, never ever had an issue with it. I also use the ATSC HD tuner built into my Hitachi 57", works really well too.

Originally posted by STL

Phoenician,
Could you comment on the quality of the scalar (compared the to 6000 and any other HD rec'r you have used)?

Thanks for the details you have already provided!

Surprised I haven't seen a reply to previous post about WB-11 broadcasting a blank screen. I show a strong signal both on the 26 aka 11-1 and on 75 but both show just a blank screen.

I called KPLR this afternoon and the operator said that I was the 5th person to call with the same problem. She said let me try to get an engineer and she put me on hold. When she came back she said the engineer is unable to come to the phone but says they are broadcasting a strong HD signal and it must be our equipment. He recommends trying to tune into 26.

I told the operator that I have also seen the same complaint in the AVS forum and she gave me someones voice mail to leave a disruption.

Help!

Ron
Using MyHD100

I've had the same problem, but it perfectly coincided with my acquisition
of my DISH 811, so I blamed my equipment. I'll have to reconnect my
T165, and see if it has problems. Obviously SOMETHING is going on with KPLR,
since we're all seeing two separate streams (one mapped to 11-1, and one
mapped to 75-1... even my T165 did that.)

On my Dish 6000, I receive strong signal on 11-1, but a black screen and no audio. 75-1 is unavailable. On my Hughes E-86, same thing. However, on my Samsung TS-160, I receive a strong signal on 11-1 ALONG WITH VIDEO AND AUDIO. I am in Montgomery City, MO, about 85 mi as the crow flies to the transmit towers.

Alan

Count me among those not receiving KPLR-DT. I have PSIP off and a recent rescan failed to pick up the station and tuning it manually gets me nothing.

No problem here receiving KPLR-DT in U. City with a SIR-TS160.

In fact, everything is strong, except for WRBU-DT which I never get at all.

Dean

Just rescanned in the hopes of snagging KPLR-DT, but no go.

I have a DTC-100. I have seen this happen before when stations decide to add PSIP information. Some PSIP packages are incompatible with some ATSC receivers.

I'm not saying this is definitely the problem, but it's possible...

@StLouG,
When I had Charter, I had the same problem, this was 2 years ago with their normal digital receiver. I also had a problem with several channels volume meandering up and down throughout programming(not change with commercials, changing during show). This is one of the many reasons I will never give Charter another penny.

@ everyone with KPLR issues.
No problems with picture or audio on my TUHDS-20. 11-1 comes in perfectly, 75-1 comes in with channel info, but no picture or sound. IIRC, in the lobby, where they monitor on air HD signal, they have a T-160. Which would be why THEY don't see any problems (if everybodies probs occur with other STBs). I know the chief engineer lurks here to see if they are having problems, so either it's on their list to fix, or he hasn't lurked in a while.
Dug

Hey Guys,

I posted before that I moved down to Houston, so I haven't been following the St. Louis threads. But, a friend of mine just picked up a hdtv, and he was wondering about espn-hd on charter? Has anybody heard any rumors as to when that might become available?

Thanks!

Hitachi shows 26-1 with black screen - doesn't even remap.

Chris

811 has 11-1, but it is now 14:9 stretched.

With that said, the quality is very nice

I also am not getting WB 11; on my 6000 shows 75-82% strength, but no audio/video. It's been down at least a few days.

I tried deleting the entry, and rescanning, but I now don't have any wb 11 digital available to select.

If they are splitting on two channels, with guide info on one, and a/v on another, it sounds like they have some issues with the feed they are sending. I bet wracer might have some ideas ;)

I'm surprised they aren't more in tune with "avsforum folks complaining' since THEY hosted the first HD meeting in St.Louis, and Greg(?) mentioned they sometimes have a problem with mappings, and it's only apparent if they change their channel and try to switch back..

Oh well, sometimes I forget we are still in the bleeding edge of this technology. I can see it now, sitting down with my grandkids saying "Back when I was your daddy's age, there WAS no HD"

I also get blank for WB11 now on my MyHD MDP-100. I guess I did not notice since I do not watch any of their programs.

Originally posted by BudShark
By scaler you are probably referring to how SD channels look?

Yes. Thanks to you (as well as Phoenician and zvogt) for follow on comments. Now if I could just find someone who has switched from the DTC-100 to the 811. :)

Just so we can start building a catalog of STB's that aren't receving any A/V on 11-1, I am using an E86 and I get the black screen. Nothing is mapping in the scan to 75-1 either.

Caer

We recently made some changes with our PSIP data that enabled us to provide active program guide. We also added a virtual channel for ease of locating the WB programming via an HD receiver nationally. The virtual channel (75-1) is active through PSIP only, it is NOT a separate stream.

While these changes have many advantages they also come with some disadvantages. On select receivers a "hard reboot" may be required. The manufacturers describe a hard reboot as deleting the channel, powering down the receiver for a couple of minutes, re-powering and scanning. This should resolve most conflicts with consumer receivers. If you continue to have difficulties receiving WB11 please let us know. Please include the STB make and model information as well as signal strength.

I hope this helps.

Thanks guys... I'll try that on my Hitachi tonight... It was a brand new TV as of last week, so unless you've made further changes I don't think it will work (since it never saw the channel before).

Chris

I have the 6000 receiver and deleted 11-1 and unplugged the unit for several minutes, but still unable to lock in 26-1. I am getting an 85%+ signal, but the signal bar remains in the red and says not locked. Other digital channels will turn green and say locked. Any other ideas?

John

Guys, FYI an 811 software update (v2.62) is rolling out.

I have upgraded to the new rev of software, and it has improved the OTA reception to the point that I can now get a viewable signal on UPN (WRBU) which was previously unviewable.

THere are threads at a couple of the larger satellite dedicated forums to check out at your convenience.

Cheers,

Thanks STL eng.

Followed your instructions and I am now able to see KPLR once again.

Using MYHD100

Ron

No problems getting 11.1 on my Sony HD100, though instead of the 4 by 3 on SD material it seems to be 16 by 9 zoom?

And my program guide still shows nothing but "digital TV programming" 24/7.

I now have WB-11 Digital, Ch26, back on my 6000 like normal. I didn't do anything further here. Guess KPLR made some adjustments.

John

John - I agree that they made some changes. It reappeared on my Hitachi with no changes. All my receivers are working now.

Oh - for those of you on the fence about the 811 - BUY IT (or get it free if you are a new subscriber). If the update that came down today is any indication, Dish is committed to fixing issues quickly - and correctly.

While not complete with all 'features' the aspect ratio fix is quite nice. In fact the switch between aspect ratios is near instantaneous. I am getting very good reception on all of my OTA channels - and channel changes are quite fast.

Chris

KPLR-DT also reappeared on my DTC-100, but with the wrinkle that it now shows up as both 26-2 and 26-3. As noted earlier, my box has PSIP turned off. Both 26-2 and 26-3 look identical.

Maybe the second channel is in some way related to virtual channel 75-1.

I was finally able to check WB-11 Digital last night. I don't have any problems with 11.1 on my Sony HD-200. My programming guide did did list the show w/ the "HD" highlighted. Sorry, I don't remember the show, I checked during a commercial break during 24.

Yup, did nothing ot my receiver, its working now. Now if KMOV would broadcast at full power again, I'd be set :)


Originally posted by BudShark
John - I agree that they made some changes. It reappeared on my Hitachi with no changes. All my receivers are working now.

Oh - for those of you on the fence about the 811 - BUY IT (or get it free if you are a new subscriber). If the update that came down today is any indication, Dish is committed to fixing issues quickly - and correctly.

While not complete with all 'features' the aspect ratio fix is quite nice. In fact the switch between aspect ratios is near instantaneous. I am getting very good reception on all of my OTA channels - and channel changes are quite fast.

Chris

I'm still not happy with my 811.
The aspect ratio fix does appear to be up to snuff,
and the couple severe problems I was having with OTA signals
seem to have been corrected, but now there are new OTA issues,
and the channel guide still appears to be adding/deleting local
channels at random.

Hello,

I live in the Central West End in St. Louis. I have had DirecTV and HDTV via a dish and a UHF antenna set up on the roof of my 3 story condo building for over a year now, and I was quite happy with it. However, over the past 6 months, a new 5 story apartment building has started going up directly south of me in the path of the dish and antenna, and it is disrupting my reception. I get way more DirecTV dropouts, and I don't pick up over the air HDTV signals via the UHF antenna at all!

This is quite upsetting, especially when I consider how much money I have poured into my DirecTV system (big screen HDTV, HDTV receiver, DirecTivo receiver, satellite dish, UHF antenna). The whole reason I switched to DirecTV from digital cable was that my building has terrible cable wiring, and I can't get a good cable picture. I had to get DirecTV.

My question is... what options or rights do I have in terms of confronting the company that is constructing the new building? I may have to get re-wired with better cable for digital cable (expensive), or go without over the air HDTV for as long as I live in my building (disappointing). Do I just have to live with it?

Wow. Bummer.
I would think if you were under a contract with one of those services
you'd have some grounds for getting out of that contract.
But as far as getting HD signals in the future, I think you're probably up the creek.

Zac,

Sorry to hear that you're still having 811 problems.
John, how's yours doing?
(I think I may be waiting for the 921.)

The good news about the 811 is it's a software problem,
which is easily corrected, and will be corrected by DISH in time.
Unlike the unrelated hardware problems I'm having with my LCoS,
which are largely unfixable. :(

KPLR DT will broadcast the TOURNAMENT OF ROSES PARADE 2004.
The program will be live on January 1, 2004 10:00A-12:30P.

This program will not be televised on KPLR TV (analog).

Hey guys - I have a question about charter's pricing.

I was under the impression that when Charter does start charging for the HDTV stuff (from January) that it would only be the price of the HDTV channels. I got that idea because I remember reading that Charter's original (non hd) receiver was about $9 and this new one is about $10 and so I would only have to pay the difference there + the hdnet channels. I called Charter the other day and found out that Charter would start charging me $14 additional starting from January since the price for 1 original (non hd) receiver was free but this hd receiver is not.

Do you guys have any details on that?

Thanks.

-- CodeZion

Originally posted by zvogt
The good news about the 811 is it's a software problem,
which is easily corrected, and will be corrected by DISH in time.
Unlike the unrelated hardware problems I'm having with my LCoS,
which are largely unfixable. :(

There are still lots of issues with the 811 software. In addition to skipping local OTA channels especially channel 4 and remapping it to 56 and the recall button does not work when in local OTA, I'm having issues with Dolby Digital using Toslink Optical output.

zvogt or John K: Can you confirm this issue? If your 811 is set to Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital/PCM, do you get sound on the Dish HD channels or Local OTA channels? Sound appears to work on normal SD channels but not for HD or local OTA. This is only when using optical toslink output connecting to an AV receiver. In my case, I'm using HK AVR-330.

CodeZion,

I'm not a Charter sub, but recalling from things I've read here, the monthly rental of the HD STB is actually $9, compared with $6 for the SD digital STB. I believe that the HD programming package was supposed to cost either $4 or $5 monthly.

In your case, it sounds like you were getting your SD digital box for free and that Charter isn't building that $6 "discount" into your HD billing.

In any event, I'd suggest that you should call customer service and refuse to pay any HD charges until Charter adds all of the local HD channels and that it matches DISH/DirecTV's non-local HD offerings. Leaving HBO-HD and Showtime-HD aside (as you're already paying for that programming anyway), $14 a month for HDNet, HDNet Movies, KSDK-DT and KTVI-DT is a spectacularly bad value.

John and Phoenician:

I'm not having nearly the troubles that others are having. Right now I have two issues:

1) Squeal, which sounds like a sampled NTSC raster being passed digitally when viewing the Guide or the Setup Menu.

2) A tendency to drop KMOV-DT from the guide. It's a PITA but knowing the workaround (ADD DTV manually) works fine.

I get audio from Sat, Analog and Digital OTA, which leads me to believe it's a lock issue specific with the receivers chipset and the 811. I'm set to DD/PCM.

My only connection is via DVI, and this works correctly, other than seeing the vertical blanking info at the top of the screen on NTSC upsampled on digital OTA stations

I don't really watch analog OTA, but on occasion I'm bumped there accidentally when KMOV gets deleted.

Zack,

Good luck getting your set repaired!

Cheers,

I too have Charter's HD service and I am just waiting for them to slap all the HD charges on me in January. When they do, they'll be receiving a phone call from me. I will NOT be paying for a service that is incomplete.

From what I have seen, HDNet & HDNet Movies is a charge itself of $4 or so. Then there is the charge for box itself. After that, the "hd programming" charge of whatever amount WILL NOT be paid by me for only 2 channels - Fox and NBC, especially since Fox isnt actually HD.

I know Charter is improving, but this fiasco may have me running back to Dishnet as fast as I can....

Any DISHNET retailers want to get me setup for a cheap price???

WOW! The Dish local contrator called before 7:30am this morning to inform me they didn't have an 811 they could bring out and install today. Needless to say, the late notice made me a little perturbed. I had taken the day off for this. I decided if I had to wait, then this would be a good time to check out other options. I wasn't going to order their HD channels and instead use the OTA in the mean time. If you were going to advise someone starting completely fresh, what would you guys recommend?

I'm still going out to Skywalker Communications and pick up my UHF antenna today. Craig at Skywalker said he would make an RG-6 cable for me to connect. I asked if there was a limit length for the cable and he said no. That doesn't sound quite right. I'm going from a two-story attice to the basement and then back up to the TV in the family room. The house has a cable conduit from the attic but naturally it's on the other side of the house from my family room which would probably add another 45? feet to the length. Is there a limit I should watch out for?

Thanks for the help.

An interesting article in today Wall Street Journal on Rupert Murdoch's plans for DirecTV:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB107179836125162200,00.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

I think this article is available to non-subscribers, but if not, here's a quick summary of what's in the works:

* Roll out of a new generation of "heavily subsidized" advanced set-top boxes. Not clear if these would be from traditional DirecTV providers or from the sources used by BskyB and other News Corp. satellite services internationally (NDS Group) ;

* More interactive features, such as being able to vote directly for American Idol contestants (yawn) and picking your own camera angles for NFL Sunday Ticket games (hey, don't make me choose between chips and beer);

* A lowball pricing strategy is expected in order to stem defections (20% per year) and drive subscriber numbers. On the other hand, the focus is to provide lots of value-added pay services that will ultimately drive billing-per-subscriber;

* By 2006, it expects to install at least 1 million "fully integrated digital video recorders" annually. Currently DTV is claiming 750,000 DVRs installed. (My opinion only, but I expect this development to further delay HD TiVo, but I really hope that I'm wrong);

* Murdoch believes that DirecTV has the potential to grow from its current base of 12 million subscribers currently to 20 million by the end of this decade;

* Investment of at least $1 billion to expand satellite bandwidth to carry more local channels, facilitate interactive services and allow for HD programming (BTW, the only reference to HD in the article); and

* Article notes that one of the keys to News Corp.'s success in other markets has been its ability to lock up key sports programming, such as the Premiership soccer league games in the UK, and that it will be more difficult to replicate that success in the US market.

I am defiantly getting "sparklies" in the picture from my 811 via DVI.
Using the same cable in the same DVI input, I do NOT get sparklies from
my Bravo D1 nor my Samsung SIR T165. The fault must lie with the 811.
And I doubt it's a software problem. The picture is clean via component.
The sparkles haven't been a distraction during normal programing,
but when the 811 is outputting an all black screen, there are definitely
flashing white pixels sparkling around the screen like a swarm of mosquitoes.

Originally posted by Phoenician
I'm having issues with Dolby Digital using Toslink Optical output.
zvogt or John K: Can you confirm this issue?

Sorry, I can't confirm, my receiver lacks optical inputs.
I can run dolby digital thru coax only. :(

Originally posted by Phoenician
zvogt or John K: Can you confirm this issue? If your 811 is set to Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital/PCM, do you get sound on the Dish HD channels or Local OTA channels? Sound appears to work on normal SD channels but not for HD or local OTA. This is only when using optical toslink output connecting to an AV receiver. In my case, I'm using HK AVR-330.

I am having NO audio problems with my 811. I can confirm that KMOV drops - but otherwise things are looking solid. We have now been able to move to the 811 as our primary receiver.

I also do not get the lock-ups we were seeing in the past. The 962 update is by no means perfect, but its a solid step. Hopefully we'll see another next week or first of the year that solidifies the over the air reception and channel mapping.

Chris

EDIT: I am using optical out to a Sony STR-DE565. Receiver is set to DD/PCM.

Originally posted by MyMonyPit
WOW! The Dish local contrator called before 7:30am this morning to inform me they didn't have an 811 they could bring out and install today. Needless to say, the late notice made me a little perturbed. I had taken the day off for this. I decided if I had to wait, then this would be a good time to check out other options. I wasn't going to order their HD channels and instead use the OTA in the mean time. If you were going to advise someone starting completely fresh, what would you guys recommend?

I'm still going out to Skywalker Communications and pick up my UHF antenna today. Craig at Skywalker said he would make an RG-6 cable for me to connect. I asked if there was a limit length for the cable and he said no. That doesn't sound quite right. I'm going from a two-story attice to the basement and then back up to the TV in the family room. The house has a cable conduit from the attic but naturally it's on the other side of the house from my family room which would probably add another 45? feet to the length. Is there a limit I should watch out for?

Thanks for the help.

I'm sure you mentioned before, but what antenna are you getting from Skywalker?

I've decided to invest some money into improving my OTA reception. Its almost there, I just don't think the generic Radio Shack Yagi's are going to get me the 99.99% I'm after.

Chris

Originally posted by BudShark
I'm sure you mentioned before, but what antenna are you getting from Skywalker?

I've decided to invest some money into improving my OTA reception. Its almost there, I just don't think the generic Radio Shack Yagi's are going to get me the 99.99% I'm after.

Chris

Chris,

The one recommended was a Channel Master CM4228A.

I ran my own, and now wish I ran quad shield RG6. Penny wise dollar foolish. My reception is good, but could be better. I run about 75'. I threw an amplifier on it, which helped a little. All you can do is run it and see for yourself, as YMMV based on different factors.

I think I posted this earlier, but when I was having problems with my father-in-law's OTA set-up the quad sheild RG6 made a huge difference over standard RG-6. It was sort of a last ditch effort before I tried a new antenna or a pre-amp. Signals went from 50% with regular RG6 to 90% with quad sheild RG6.

Anyone doing a new antenna install- I highly recommend starting with quad sheild RG-6, especially for longer (over 50ft) cable runs.

FWIW, the sparklies reported on the 811 might be related to the box getting too hot. I owned the first-generation Panasonic OTA ATSC receiver/toaster oven in 1998 and it suffered from blue sparklies after about an hour or 90 minutes of operation. Panasonic eventually did a free retrofit that fixed the problem, though it continued to run pretty hot even afterward.

This 811 problem might be entirely something else, but it might be worth trying to give it as much ventilation as possible. Hopefully this problem is something that can be fixed remotely.

Sunday's KMOV programming after the Rams game:

I emailed the following to KMOV a few minutes ago. A few more messages might do some good, but then again I could be dreaming.

"I was really surprised not to see the KC game listed following the Rams
game. And I was even more taken back when I saw that game is also a HDTV
production.

So at least show the game on CH 56 DT for those of us that can appreciate
it.

Skiing instead of a HDTV football game that involves two teams of some local
interest. Please."

If the Rams are on Channel 4 and since they are at home I don't think they are allowed to show a double header, Fox has to present a game which can only be the 3pm game since game is at Noon. Televised Rams Home games can be the only football game shown at that time slot. You should send a letter to Tagliabue along with a check for about a billion dollars or get NFL Sunday ticket. Sorry

Forgot to mention, I believe CBS HD game of the week is the Chiefs-Vikings game which is Saturday, so there is no HD game Sunday, please correct me if I'm wrong.

No - CBS is doing two HD games per weekend from now on (the SEC football HD is no longer needed). We should get a Sunday HD game.

Chris

Originally posted by BudShark
No - CBS is doing two HD games per weekend from now on (the SEC football HD is no longer needed). We should get a Sunday HD game.

Chris

Correct. CBS is doing two HD games per week but Sunday's HD game is Miami-Buffalo which is also at noon. CBS will be showing the Rams-Bengals game locally which is not in HD.

Here's where you can check out CBS Sports schedule.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/cbs/sports/

Originally posted by codezion
I called Charter the other day and found out that Charter would start charging me $14 additional starting from January since the price for 1 original (non hd) receiver was free but this hd receiver is not.


Your SD digital receiver is included in the cost of your current digital cable package. If they were to price it out ala carte for you, you're actually paying about $6 for that receiver.

The $14 for HD stuff is for the receiver and HDNet/HDNet movies. Dump the HDNet channels and it should bring you to only around $9 extra per month (price of the receiver and remote).

The local digitals are free, as are HBO/SHO HD (if you have those subs).

Originally posted by abcward
After that, the "hd programming" charge of whatever amount WILL NOT be paid by me for only 2 channels - Fox and NBC, especially since Fox isnt actually HD.

There is no "HD programming" charge. The locals are free. When they add CBS/ABC, they will be free too. Assuming you dump the pair of HDNet channels, all you would be paying for is the box and remote, and at $9/month, that's a heck of a bargain considering the alternative (high up front cost of owning your own HD receiver with a DSS company, $5 mirroring charge for that HD receiver, and a $11 HD package with channels that you may or may not want).

Eventually, they'll add ESPN-HD and Disc-HD, maybe more. I had both on DirecTV and neither was worth the $11/month I was paying for them (HDNet was included with that as well). In fact, if Charter rolled out both channels tomorrow, and made their own HD package with those 4 pay HD stations, I wouldn't pay for them now either (even for $5/month). ESPN-HD is the key channel here, but they just don't have enough programming in HD to justify paying a surcharge for it (yet).

I know Charter gets bashed around alot in here, but frankly I don't see why. We're getting to rent a quality HD receiver for next to nothing ($4 more than the a mirroring charge on DirecTV), no worry about breakdown with them either (just swap it out for a new one if it breaks or they get upgraded, that's worth $$$$ right there compared to owning your own and buying a long extended warranty or product replacement plan), and whatever digital locals they do have or get in the future, are free of charge w/o having to fiddle with an antenna (which will never happen on the DSS systems).

I'm sure that most of the informed HD customers will be calling Charter in the next week or two and dropping the HDNet sub (unless they are getting good value out of those 2 channels for their $3.99 cost), the rest will call when they get their bill and see the $3.99 line item for HDNet. If Charter takes notice and their CSR's do quality work and take note of why we are dumping HDNet, maybe they'll get moving on adding ESPN/Disc HD channels a little quicker and put together a HD package with all 4 channels for a reasnable cost (like $10.99 from DirecTV).

As you can tell, I'm very pleased with the Charter HD service so far. The tuner is lightning quick, no reception problems, dropouts, PISP issues, all of my channels come through one channel guide (which I couldn't do with my 1st generation HD receiver, DTC-100.. the newer ones I understand can combine lineups). For me, it's a great value and my TV watching is much easier now. Really, my only hang up is having to occasionally switch to my DTC-100 to watch MNF or some of the CBS sitcoms in HD... but that's just a flick of the A/B switch and I'm good to go. Eventually, I'll be able to remove the DTC-100 completely, which will make the wife even happier to have one less remote to worry about and less training involved for when the babysitter wants to watch TV.

Charter appears to be charging $3.99 PER HDNet channel - I get a $7.98 line item for HDNet every month. could just be a mistake on their part. I got sick of calling them every month to cancel HDNet.

We cancelled Charter last night. Why? Because of their customer service, and the lack of all locals in digital. I also didn't like not having my digital locals on their 'normal' channels - thats a big gap in the cable receivers.

So, what about the satellite costs? If you are willing to 'rent' the equipment in the same manner that Jon is talking about, satellite is cheaper. Dish's HD package, with a total of 3 rooms, is FREE up front. I pay for the basic packaging price, $5 for the first reciever (HD) and $5 for the 322 which has two inputs and two outputs (its in the basement and has a UHF remote for our upstairs room.) So I pay a total of $10 for the rental for 3 TVs.

FYI - when you rent with Dish, they charge a $5 rental for each 'receiver', BUT they waive the $4.99 activation charge, so its a wash. You really only pay $5 more than regular customers. And with the 322, I actually pay EXACTLY the same for 3 TVs as all the 'purchase' customers.

So with these new deals, satellite can actually compete directly with cable. Yes you have to pay for the HD pack (Dish's is $9.99), but between Discovery HD and ESPNHD I think its worth it.

And the best part of it? I get all my locals in digital - no waiting for Charter to negotiate anything - and they are on their correct channels.

While I agree with Jon that eventually cable will get there, we are very happy with the newer satellite boxes and deals (and my wife doesn't have to talk to Charter anymore - which is a huge plus for her). Plus with the baby, it is nice to have Disney East and Disney West again!!!!

Chris

Originally posted by STL eng
KPLR DT will broadcast the TOURNAMENT OF ROSES PARADE 2004.
The program will be live on January 1, 2004 10:00A-12:30P.

This program will not be televised on KPLR TV (analog).

thanks for the confirmation on this! It will definitely be what we watch Jan 1st!

I do miss watching this live - but HD will help. If you've never seen the parade in person, tune in to see some amazing color and details.

Chris

Originally posted by BudShark
Dish's HD package, with a total of 3 rooms, is FREE up front.

I would agree 100% that for people with a smaller amount of TV's that require service, then either dish company is a much better deal. But for those of us with 6 TV's, a couple of those where digital service is neither wanted or required (like a 13" kitchen TV where all I need is basic extended running through the TV's built in receiver), it's not even close.

As for HDNet being $3.99 per channel, my bill still shows just one line item for HDNet and it's still $0.00.

I dug up the blue price sheet that Charter sent with my list bill, here are the actual charges in their system (as of 10/03):

-HDTV Digital Receiver $3.85
-Remote $0.11
-HDTV IIS Fee (guide, music choice, interactive service, local HD, HBO/SHO with seperate subscription - $5.99
-Total for HDTV Receiver services: $9.95

Interestly, the cost of a standard digital receiver is listed as $3.85 and $0.11 for the remote, the cost difference is in the ISS fee being $4.99 with standard digital service (guide, music choice, interactive service).

HDNet, HDNet movies are listed as one item on their pricing chart, for $3.99

So, it seems that upgrading from a standard digital receiver to a HD one, is actually going to be just $1 difference in the end (not the $3 difference they told us). The $9.95 hasn't change, they have just increased the cost of their standard digital receiver service to $8.95 now (which most people don't see since they are likely getting a package deal with it included).

Let's not paint a totally rosey picture of Charter either - The most irritating part of the HD experience with Charter is the fact that their website shows that they have ALL the locals, ESPN, Discovery, HDNets and HBO/Showtime. Yet all of us Charter customers know for a fact that we do not have half of these channels yet.

Yes, it is 'free' at this moment, but come January 1st, it will not be. Also, it would be a wonderful change of pace if ANY of their csr's actually had a clue as to what is going on....but thats another story.

FYI - I was a dishnet customer until I moved to Wildwood in March. I switched then because SWBell could not get me 1.5mb download for their DSL, so I was forced to go with Charter for internet. Because of their goofy rule that you have to have some sort of basic cable [$14] to have internet I just went the 'easy' route and got my tv service thru them as well.

Honestly I have been very happy with my internet service and pretty satisfied with my tv service. But you will not 'force' me to stay with both services and make promises you cannot keep for long.

Yeah, their website has to show that since those channels are available in their other markets, and the website is a corporate site, not just for St. Louis customers only.

I can understand their $10 charge (I guess it's $14 now) if you don't have TV service, since it could be abused otherwise (if you have pipeline, all you have to do is plug the coax into a TV and you get basic cable service... so yeah, there's going to charge for that, makes sense).

Make certain I'm no Charter fanboy and have bashed them in the past, but I just see alot of broad strokes being painted around here making it seem like noone is happy with them. For my situation, my Pipeline service is exceptional and rarely if ever has been down in the past 3yrs, and my TV signal has always been strong as well (other than the occasional few hours of service outage if someone cut a cable due to construction of a new home down the street).

My big issues with DirecTV was that I had to pay an extra $5 for mirroring, plus the cost of equipment, to get service at all of my 6 TV's. Plus, even if I did pay that, I lose my PIP function, have a big ugly box with no room for it, and have an angry wife due to an extra remote with channels that are slow to change (compared to analog cable through a TV's tuner).

I'll stand by what I wrote yesterday -- Charter HD at $14/month, per CodeZion's situation, is a spectacularly bad value. If there's a mistake in what CodeZion was told or what he ultimately is billed, that might change the picture, but $14 for what is essentially KSDK-DT, HDNet and HDNet Movies is just a joke.

But the bigger issue -- and the reason that I believe that Charter can't be criticized enough -- is that they still aren't providing the full complement of local digital/HD channels AND they aren't communicating what their plans are.

Add to that the fact that they knew well over a year ago that they were going to be offering an HD package and nearly 18 months later they've only managed to secure the rights to TWO digital locals. And this apparently is the standard of performance that gets the corporate stamp of approval in Charter's home market.

I gotta say it -- WTF!?!?!?

I no longer rely on Charter for television, and hope that I never have to climb back through that briar patch. However, I'm still very interested in seeing Charter do things properly and professionally. My own business has a stake in seeing them get HD out to more and more viewers in the St. Louis market and delivering a complete and high quality product to those customers. And as a viewer, I have a long-term interest in seeing robust, meaningful competition between local cable and the national satellite services, so that I have the best possible choices at the lowest possible cost.

That may strike some as greedy on my part, but that's the way capitalism is supposed to work.

For all these reasons, I hope that a large number of current Charter HD customers will "vote with their feet" when it comes time for Charter to start charging for the HD package in January. I don't believe Charter has done enough to earn the business of customers who are principally interested in viewing HD programming.

I appreciate that satellite isn't a realistic option for everyone. However, for anyone with the ability to make that choice and deal with an upfront equipment investment, DirecTV, DISH and even VOOM! are all companies that have demonstrated a serious commitment to serving HD viewers.

Final point: What are the odds that Charter will be able to deliver the Super Bowl in HD at the end of January?

Originally posted by abcward

FYI - I was a dishnet customer until I moved to Wildwood in March. I switched then because SWBell could not get me 1.5mb download for their DSL, so I was forced to go with Charter for internet. Because of their goofy rule that you have to have some sort of basic cable [$14] to have internet I just went the 'easy' route and got my tv service thru them as well.


I can probably make your day even better - this requirement was eliminated in October. Their new pricing is $29.99 for basic (384K down), 39.99 for advanced (2MB down)- and NO surcharge. Also - all packages are 2MB until I think March.

With respect to the surcharge per receiver - it depends on how you slice that pie. I do think they (Dishnetwork) is making stides in improving that situation. With their new 522 and 322, you can feed your whole house from a 2nd output of a receiver. So in the case of the HD package, you can have your HD TV standalone. Your bedroom TV would be on one channel, and the rest of your house would be on a 3rd channel. All 3 TVs have access to EVERY channel. Total cost - $10 with NO upfront charges. With Charter you pay $10 for the HD receiver. Want HBO in the bedroom? Thats $8+ more dollars. Sure, the rest of the TVs are limited to the same channel - but how often are you that limited? But they also have a 4 TV setup for free that is still cheaper ($15) than the $18+ it takes from Charter to get 2 TVs access to HBO.

There are different ways to slice it - but I like the East/West feeds of Satellite, the OTA HD tuners, and the lower pricing (base packages are cheaper than Charter). Plus they announce intention AND we benefit from the aggressive cable companies. Dish and Direct compete nationwide, so if TWC and Comcast get aggressive on HD, Dish and Direct must compete or lose customers - Charter doesn't care.

Chris

I don't know if Charters policy is the same in all areas. On the Illinois side if you b**** enough you can have Pipeline and Satellite TV with no penalty and if you care to you can even recieve some other channels on that feed. We can even run the Pipeline signals and Satellite down the same cable if necessary.
With the equipment and promotions that Dishnetwork has to offer we can offer an inexpensive solution for almost any customer.

The local OTA DTV signals can be had with an inexpensive antenna. There are some glitches with these signals from the source. But having your own antenna rather than a cable company feed that is amplified and split to who knows how many outlets will be better.

I remember way back when the Dolby Surround signals were lost in the cable feed. I then switched to a C-Band Satellite TV system 10' dish and all. The only problem was that I had to install it myself. My Dad said I was crazy and my Wife damn near tossed me out. But I made it work. That was in 1992. In 1996 we started selling Dishnetwork.

Let me share with you what I have learned so far.

So lets say I am a cable company and now comes the need for more channels, some in HD and Internet connections. ( to be continued )

Originally posted by DroptheRemote

Final point: What are the odds that Charter will be able to deliver the Super Bowl in HD at the end of January?

I'd say slim to none. Thankfully I have a OTA tuner and can pick up all of the locals OTA w/o issue. For the Joe Six packs without a clue about DTV, I'm sure Charter will get some nasty phone calls.

Cont. Lets say I am a cable Co.
Any service provider has a limited amount of bandwith to work with so what happens is a rob Peter to pay Paul situation. In the case of a Cable TV Co. with only wire to work with ( In our area 30yrs. old) some services won't work or others have to be compromised for new ones.
So do we run fiber?? Possibly but our budget won't allow it No make it work the best you can. Run the Pipeline on the low frequency as we get another $40 mo. subscription. We need HDTV! Again no problem just steal more bandwith from our already compromised channels and make it work.

Cont.
On the other hand a Satellte provider has way more bandwidth to work with. More channels no problem. HDTV no problem. Our HD Pack is only $9.99 The video you see on the subscription channels is at the same quality as is was broadcast in.
Unfortunately Local DTV via Satellite is not possible at this time but most can actually get it free with the proper antenna. Can I be of service?
Ned Schifferdecker satman@norcom2000.com

I currently have the Hughes E86 Hd reveiver. I am thinking of swithing to Charter Hd service eventually. I wanted to know if I can use my Hughes HD receiver for the cable instead of renting their Motorola box.

Jeff - no. You MUST use the Motorolla 5100.

Chris

Originally posted by Ned Schiff
Can I be of service?
Ned Schifferdecker satman@norcom2000.com
Ned,
I'm using a 12 foot C-Band Dish in St. Charles and very much enjoying Showtime East/West, HBO East/West, and Starz East/West in High Definition. For locals I rely on a rooftop antenna which pulls everything in with no problem.

I strongly dislike artifacts and so have never adopted small dish for Standard Def pictures. But the future of HD may not be with C-Band as CMAX-HD and Movie Channel-HD have each illuminated using formats incompatible with my home equipment. Which HD channels do you currently offer? (please specify West feed if available). How does the digital symbol rate of the small dish compare with the original broadcast on C-Band?

Thanks!
Bill Lipscomb (Bill787

I live in SL area near intersection of Interstates 44 and 270 on what is supposed to be high ground. I'm interested in this antenna for HD OTA. Does anybody have any experience with it or knowledge of it? Thanks and Happy Holidays to all.

OKC

okc,

That antenna appears to be a VHF/UHF combo. In general, you're going to have better results with a UHF-only model. The CM3000 might work, but a UHF-only should be more of a sure thing.

FYI -- all St. Louis digitals are currently on the UHF band.

I spoke with a Charter representative and he told me they will be adding CBS and ABC to their list of local hd channels, but who can believe them.

I'm sure they will.. but when? 2005?

I know I asked this before, but what is up with KETC? I get two of the 3 subchannels as 720P identical programming when I used to get 1080i on sub channel #1. The quality has gone down also, as 'Living Edens' looks like garbage. Anyone have a contact at KETC that can correct this?

Also, the KETC HD schedule web page seems to be down.

http://www.ptvdigital.org/dt2a_sked.html

Hi,
A quick question on the Motorola 5100 HD unit. What type of signal is output from the unit on the component output when the unit is tuned to a regular non HD channel such as ESPN or the other regular band channels?
(Is it a standard 480i or does the unit upconvert any of those channels?)

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Joe H

Originally posted by abcward
Let's not paint a totally rosey picture of Charter either - The most irritating part of the HD experience with Charter is the fact that their website shows that they have ALL the locals, ESPN, Discovery, HDNets and HBO/Showtime. Yet all of us Charter customers know for a fact that we do not have half of these channels yet.

The Charter website clearly states that the channel availability varies by location:

With Charter HDTV, you can get the following HD channels*:


» Local ABC, CBS, NBC

» Local Fox in widescreen high resolution

» HBO HD (must be HBO subscriber)

» Showtime HD (must be Showtime subscriber)

» HDNet & HDNet Movies

» Discovery HD


* Channel availability varies by location.

...find me ONE charter city that has Discovery HD..... I highly doubt that Charter negotiates local deals with national channels like Discovery, ESPN, etc. [locals are obviously negotiated locally]

im amazed when people actually try and defend this company.

Originally posted by rman222
What type of signal is output from the unit on the component output when the unit is tuned to a regular non HD channel such as ESPN or the other regular band channels?

This depends on the 4:3 Override setting in the User Settings menu.
The 4:3 Override sets the display format for 4:3 standard-definition programming. If the YPbPr Output is set to 1080i, 720p, or 480p, this setting defaults to 480i.

OFF displays 4:3 programs on a 16:9 HDTV in a cropped (pillar box) format in 480i. Selecting OFF for a 4:3 HDTV may result in a small picture with black bars around it. This setting disables the aspect option on some HDTV's.

480i displays non-HD programs in their original 480i format and typically allows the use of the aspect option on most televisions to operate properly.
But remember, some HDTVs cannot display 480i format on their component video inputs (YPbPr). I have seen this many times on Samsung and Zenith (ugh) HDTV's.

480p converts non-HD programs to 480p and typically allows the use of the aspect option on most televisions to operate properly. It is important to remember that the menu and flip bar graphics cannot be displayed on the RF, RCA and S-Video outputs with this setting enabled. Why is this important? You may be using a secondary composite connection to resolve the analog video issue with the DCT-5100.

4113
Long time lurker... I appreciate the opportunity to join in and help out.

Originally posted by abcward
...find me ONE charter city that has Discovery HD.....


Ft. Worth, Texas


770 HDNet Movies

771 HDNet

775 Discovery-HD :D

777 HBO-HD East

778 Showtime-HD East

780 KXAS-DT NBC

784 KDFW-DT FOX (480p)


4113

Originally posted by rman222
Hi,
A quick question on the Motorola 5100 HD unit. What type of signal is output from the unit on the component output when the unit is tuned to a regular non HD channel such as ESPN or the other regular band channels?
(Is it a standard 480i or does the unit upconvert any of those channels?)

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Joe H

The answer is "yes". :) Depends on your settings and personal taste.

http://www.cjhengineering.com/5100faq.htm

Originally posted by abcward
Let's not paint a totally rosey picture of Charter either - The most irritating part of the HD experience with Charter is the fact that their website shows that they have ALL the locals, ESPN, Discovery, HDNets and HBO/Showtime. Yet all of us Charter customers know for a fact that we do not have half of these channels yet.

Charter's website says nothing about ESPN.

http://www.charter.com/products/hdtv/hdtv.asp

Sorry abc, just trying to clear up some facts.

Peace
4113



.

Well it wont be any issue for me much longer - I am setting up my appt for Dishnet this week.

Sounds like nobody cares about local KETC PBS OTA broadcasting. Here is what I sent them. Please send something similar to letters@ketc.org <letters@ketc.org> if you would like to get this corrected.

"Hi,

I am a big fan of your HDTV OTA broadcasting. I noticed recently you changed to 720p on two subchannels showing the exact same content, instead of what you used to do which was send 1080i on one subchannel (and HD being one sub channel only). I miss the 1080i, and was wondering why the duplicate channels and lower resolution?

Thanks,
Jason"

BGPGuy,

I just checked KETC-DT on my DTC-100 and I'm still getting three separate program streams -- the HD/SD national feed, the PBS Kids feed and then the normal KETC analog feed. It appears that the latter two feeds are SD upconverts.

I can't directly address the 720p/1080i issue you're reporting, as my DTC-100 doesn't give any indication of the format. However, a week or so ago I was working on a RCA Scenium DLP at a local dealer and noticed that the program banner for KETC-DT was indicating 720p. I wondered about that then, but at the time just chalked it up to the TV displaying the actual format sent to the DLP engine. Based on what you're saying now, that's probably not the case.

I wonder if KETC-DT has decided to go to 720p instead of 1080i, or whether they are just broadcasting incorrect format information. Maybe that will be included in the reply you get from KETC.

Finally, I also noticed that the online programming guide has gone south. I'm getting a DNS error on this, so I'm not sure if this is a temporary or permanent outage. If nothing else, the online schedule was useful for determining which programs were going to be HD and which were upconverts.

Also, it would be nice to know if/when KETC-DT is going to provide Dolby Digital 5.1. I'm a big fan of music programming and would love to see and hear Soundstage, Austin City Limits, etc. at the highest possible quality.

As some of you probably know, HDTV Magazine runs an e-mail list called "HDTV Tips," where all sorts of discussions about HDTV programming, technologies, etc. are exchanged among subscribers. I've only been subscribing to this list for a few months, but there are sometimes some very interesting discussions.

Dale Cripps, who is the editor of HDTV Magazine, is a periodic contributor to the list, as you might expect. He responded to a topic yesterday about the trends for 720p and 1080i programming. I don't always agree with Dale, but I think he makes some quite interesting points in his reply and I thought that there might be others here who would also find it worthwhile reading.

Apologies to anyone that finds this massively off-topic. If nothing else, it provides a diversion if/when the ho-ho-ho family harmony thing begins to go wobbly over the course of the next couple of days...

Dale's note follows:
______________________________________________________

Thank you Hugh. I have heard that the 720p is on a roll if for no other reason than ABC/Disney have so much buying power with their ABC Sports and the ESPN sports business so that the builders of these production trucks are now favoring 720p since 1) the 720p gear is becoming cheaper and 2) makes inventory buying more predictable (don't need two bandwidth systems). I don't think that means that CBS will ever abandon 1080i as long as Joe Flaherty is there (or his shadow is present), but Joe is 72 and talking like he may be looking for an easier line of work than doing international format battles against a rising tide of next generation techno-soldiers. Europe has also grasp the 720P idea (as a bandwidth reduction solution) and so there is enormous pressure mounting at the manufacturing level to favor with both engineering investments and fabrication that which is 720p native. Again, doesn't mean the end of 1080i, it just means that in events that use electronic cameras we may see a great deal more of it.

This move to more 720p could leave a commit trail behind it too. The native display rate of 720p could become the norm, as it has become with fixed pixel devices. For CRT based devices (and they will be with us for years and years to come, trust me) this adds cost. This is the first decision in years taken by a signal provider that offers them financial incentive but potentialy penalizes the general public with added cost or lower performance (the debate centers for us about whether that is always the case). It has typically been that all of the cost of a TV system is loaded up on the signals provider's side (signal pre-processing as much as possible) in order to have a lower net, net-cost for the creation of an installed base among the general public (thus our basically dumb terminals).

While the 720p vs. 1080i has become a "religious" debate in terms of picture quality there may come a time when sides have to be more firmly drawn by the public. Once we are "comfortably" into a format (720p or 1080i) it will have to be a major visual breakthrough to carry us any further to a higher format. It is not that sciences fails to march onward but in marketing terms you need a sufficient cause (performance gap) to create a product revolution. HDTV had to be 5 times that of NTSC before enough courage was mustered throughout the industry to destroy the old standards in favor of the new. Even with that there were many who had to increase their dosage of MAALOX for it never has been clear that HD would make it (though this fear is highly reduced now). If the nation becomes satisfied with a 720p base we will not likely leap out of that into something more extraordinary, at least for the general public. I do think that there are much higher private networks in the future where ultra high vision could get a foothold, but this is the top of the commercial pyramid--a niche--and not its base. Every advance for the general public comes with a price tag related to the greater bandwidth and its processing costs, and so when bandwidth costs become only trivial in both hardware and distribution we could see light shinning (lower risk) again for a higher format for the general public. But this 720p Vs 1080 i debate is poised to heat up internationally since bandwidth is not yet free. We may all wind up wearing lapel pins for our preference.

Dale
______________________________________________________

Like abcward I too live in Wildwood, have had Charter HD since I first learned they offered it (I was early in thanks to updates from this forum) and now I am opting for Dish Network (to be installed Dec 30). I doubt Charter will expand HD offering anytime soon. I have e-mailed KMOV-4 and KDLC-30 (ABC) and both said Charter is negotiating with their parent companies nationally. My frustration with Charter has lead me to jump to Dish. I am not originally from St. Louis but metro Louisville, Kentucky so I have an intense interest in Univ of Kentucky basketball so the extensive regional Fox Sports Net package is appealing and I only use two TVs, but one HDTV primarily (wife, no kids). Very important: Dish, through www.vmcsatellite.com, is offering FREE HD receiver (the new 811 with OTA HD capability) and dish and $49.99 credit for three months. That was the clincher for me. Just add $5/mo to regular service tier price to cover equipment. That is competitive with cable strategy of fee for HD box. No big outlay for equipment and all digital beats Charter's crappy analog stations and limited HD.

Speaking of crappy analog, I believe it has something to do with the digital STB. I have noticed that for analog stations I get much better picture through my S-VSH VCR with S-video connection than I do when viewed via the Motorola HD box and component. I have a RCA Scenium 52" HDTV (no built in HD tuner). Currently, I have only calibrated it using the new Digital Video Essentials. Big improvement, but I've heard from Matt at the Sound Room that Doug does terrific work. I'll put that on my HT to-do list.

Regarding early posts, I checked with Charter and Basic cable is $10/mo. I will keep this because of Pipeline Internet. I get Dish Network's $33.99 tier + $5 for equipment lease (1 or 2 rooms), add $9.99/mo for HD, keep basic cable and $35 Pipeline and come out about $5 more than Charter HD; however, that is compared to Charter currently offering HD free!

Now I have a question. In preparation for the Dish install next week, I need to get an antenna for OTA digital local stations. I live in Wildwood, specifically in Copper Lakes subdivision, which is about a half mile from Clarkson Rd on Manchester Rd, then south on Old State Rd one mile and on the west side of Old State. From the St. Louis tower map provided by Doug I should be within a 20 mile range and no big obstruction of view. From www.antennaweb.org I have determined that I need "yellow" and "green" rated antenna / small multi-directional. Will a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor work? I've heard great things about it. What about a Terk TV-44 "clip on to dish" antenna? All I need is digital local stations because I'll keep Charter basic cable since I need Pipeline (I work from home often). Thanks for your help in advance.

Nice info on the state of affairs Doug! Thanks for sharing. I was wondering when the format war would begin. Regarding KETC, I only asked about the 720P, but will also try to get an answer about the web site. I will post if I get an answer. I highly encourage all readers to email them though. They need to know we care about the quality. A friend toured the station, and the resident engineer was rather blasse' and seemed to not really be a fan of his own work, Home Theater, or even HD (typical of many people for whom initial passion for a career has degraded to "just a job"). Maybe he had a bad day, but future email correspondence to this contact pointing out quality problems were unanswered.

ELRHD,

I think it's worth taking a shot with the Silver Sensor, especially if Best Buy is still applying its liberal return policies.

On the other hand, I've had a bad experience with a Terk antenna and I've read a fair number of similar reports from others. I can't say definitively that a Terk won't work, but I think there are better alternatives. Of course, if space is a major issue, then the clip-on antenna might be worth a try, if only to rule it out.

If you don't mind, it would be helpful to post a short note updating on what you did and how it worked once it's all said and done.

Good luck.

Originally posted by ELRHD
I doubt Charter will expand HD offering anytime soon. I have e-mailed KMOV-4 and KDLC-30 (ABC) and both said Charter is negotiating with their parent companies nationally.
It is a well known fact in the industry that CBS and ESPN are the toughest at the negotiating table....they know what they have and they expect big money for it.

Originally posted by ELRHD
Speaking of crappy analog, I believe it has something to do with the digital STB. I have noticed that for analog stations I get much better picture through my S-VSH VCR with S-video connection than I do when viewed via the Motorola HD box and component.
Correct. This is a known issue at Motorola. This is caused by the analog signal being processed via the component cables. (luminence/color/color).

Originally posted by ELRHD
Basic cable is $10/mo. I will keep this because of Pipeline Internet
The $10.00 monthly service is no longer required for Pipleline only.


Best wishes & Merry Christmas,
4113

Originally posted by 4113
It is a well known fact in the industry that CBS and ESPN are the toughest at the negotiating table....they know what they have and they expect big money for it.

This isn't a network issue, it is the parent companies of the local affiliates - Sinclair and Belo. As I posted before, these two companies held up satellite locals for the longest time, and now they are doing it with HD cable coverage. It is inexcusable greed, IMO.

Mike

FYI
Dishnetwork 811 systems are free to new subscribers from any retailer. Please do busness with the local guys. We can handle your OTA needs as well.
The 921 Dual Tuner HDTV DVR should be available in limited quanity next week.

Ned
satman@norcom2000.com

On the KETC 720p thing.
From what I understand: The engineers that I have been able to talk to say that 720p is the future of HDTV on Satellite and hopefully DVD.
From what I have seen: 720p done right delivers an awesome picture but that is via Satellite.
All of the STL local channels have a LONG way to go! The rules as I read them are DTV not HDTV.
KETC has 3 feeds with only a certain amout of bandwith to work with so make your own conclusion.
Get all of the brodcasters e-mail and phone numbers and pound them to no end or I am afraid what you will see is 480p with multiple feeds.
Ned

Re KETC; sad. Very sad.

Originally posted by Ned Schiff
All of the STL local channels have a LONG way to go! The rules as I read them are DTV not HDTV.
KETC has 3 feeds with only a certain amout of bandwith to work with so make your own conclusion.
Get all of the brodcasters e-mail and phone numbers and pound them to no end or I am afraid what you will see is 480p with multiple feeds.
Ned

Huh? I'm not sure I understand this.

KTVI is O&O - so they pass exactly what Fox gives them, which right now is 480P.
KMOV is passing HD 1080i and 5.1 audio - as CBS offers.
KSDK is passing HD 1080i as NBC offers
KDNL is passing HD 720P as ABC offers
KPLR is passing HD 1080i as WB offers

PBS has made a public commitment to multicasting - KETC will pass HD as 1080i when offered. Sub-channels are 480i.

What am I missing? If the concern is 720P vs 1080i, thats more of a religious battle. If you are concerned that the stations currently passing HD will take a step back to 480P with multicasting, I personally doubt that - not when everyone has invested in 720P/1080i equipment (consumers and studios alike)

Chris

Well, I should qualify my statement a bit. If they do go 480P, or have plans to, then that would be sad. Not sure I buy this story yet though.

As far as 720P vs 1080i, I like 1080i, and I just did not see the point in both sub-channels showing in 720P. Maybe because they have different programing, we may benefit? I need to watch more of both channels to determine if they are that redundant/duplicate in content broadcast.

I am also getting a little discouraged about the lack of HD programing on Charter. I know about the offers from DISH but does anyone know about any similar offers from DIRECT TV? I had DISH but dumped them to go with Charter so I don't think I would qualify for the HD offer from DISH.

StLouG -
You do qualify for the rental program - still free, with your first three months of AT100+HBO/Cinemax free as well.

That is exactly what we did. After running the numbers and looking at the options, the rental package actually appeared to be a good deal.

Chris

I called Dishnetwork today asking if I could upgrade to HD and get the free 811.
The rep said they aren't offering the deal at this moment because they don't have any 811 left.
I was told to call back after Jan 5th. and maybe They might be able to help me.

Originally posted by BGPGuy
I sent email to KSDK (NBC) about their video lagging their audio on OTA. Another member using both MyHD and Dish 6000 to pull the OTA sees the problem as well, so it is not just me. Anyone else see this? It is most noticeable on (but not limited to) Leno, especially when you watch music guests as they hold notes longer. Watch the mouths and tell me if I am crazy please. Email them with the provided contact email addresses in earlier posts if you see it and it bugs you.

I still notice this, but see that it is not consistent. Anyone else see lip synch issues with NBC OTA?

My two sister in-laws want to watch " Sound of Music" Saturday, can anyone confirm if its in HD.

P8ntr - yes it is in HD

I am currently using the Channel Master 4bay-bow tie antenna in my attic. I live in Arnold and can recieve all channels most of the time. The only frustrating part is Fox and Channel 11 have frequent and annoying dropouts. I use a 10 db amplifier and have tried more powerful ones, but with no luck. I do need the 10 db though or I have a lot less signal strenth. I have thought about adding another uhf antenna and combining them, but If I am getting a signal strenth of 95-100 most of the time, will it be doing anything? PS: I have the Hughes E-86 HD reciever, but if I can't resolve this I guess I will have no choice, but to swith to Charter HD once they get their channels together. At least there will be no antenna to mess with.

Does the Motorola 5100 accept an OTA antenna for the channels Charter doesn't have yet? Charter is also "out" of them till 1/18. Is there a good HD converter someone can recommend until they get themem in? Anyone know when the Superbowl is?

BTW, I just got off the phone with Dish, you can get the new receiver after 1/5 for $199 is you sign up for an additional years sub. $9.99 for the HD package.

Anybody else noticing problems with the OTA HD feed of the CBS football game today? Some audio and pixilation problems.

Also, with regards to digital KPLR. I'm getting it in 2 locations on my HD-200 receiver: 75.1 and 11.1 . I suspect it might be a mapping problem with my Sony unit.

Jefftra,

It's possible that your problems with FOX and KPLR are related to multipath issues. This might explain why you sometimes get the stations fine and why there are dropouts at other times. It's also possible that a second antenna, aimed more directly at KPKR and/or FOX towers, might fix your problems, but obviously no one can guarantee that outcome.

The good thing is that it won't cost you a huge amount to experiment. Based on the signal strength you're getting, your second antenna could be more basic and cheaper. Recalling from memory, the combiners that allow you to run two antennas on a single run of coax are around $20 each. So, for around $50 (and certainly less than $100) and an afternoon crawling around your attic, you can find out. If it doesn't work, you might be able to return the items, minus a restocking fee, or sell them to someone here.

Sorry I can't be more definitive, but this is more art than science...

burgdob,

As for Charter's STB allowing OTA reception -- no. Obviously it's in Charter's interest for you to have to rely on them for local digital channels. And no doubt, at some point, Charter will provide all the digital locals. But it's really anyone's guess when that will actually come to pass.

I'm not sure about your other question. Are you asking about an OTA-only receiver? If so, I think the Samsung and Zenith tuners are the cheapest. Suggest that you check for more details at http://www.copperbox.com/lite/stbs.php.

Attic antenna installation 101
Expect a 20-40% loss. Connections must be perfect. RG6 Quad preffered. Must be pointed perfectly. Some lay down (YAGI) most UHF only stand up. Read the directions. If in doubt try it outside first. Amps usually won't fix problems, only make them worse. Preamps help. There is no perfect antenna so be prepared to try several. As" Doug said it is an art" and will require tweaking. In the case of a mulitiple antenna install normal splitters can not be used as a combiner. Most important don't get hurt as we are out to watch TV not end up in the hospital.
Ned Schifferdecker satman@norcom2000.com

I took the plunge and ordered the DirecTV HDTV Package yesterday. I am scheduled for installation on Tuesday. I shopped around and found that buying directly from DirecTV was by far my most economical alternative.
New 18 X 24 Dish, 5 X 8 Multiswitch, HD DirecTV Receiver, Diplexer, OTA antennae, installation, Tax and Shipping for less than $400.
Anybody else taken advantage of this offer from DirecTV?

Originally posted by Wyse Guy
I took the plunge and ordered the DirecTV HDTV Package yesterday. I am scheduled for installation on Tuesday. I shopped around and found that buying directly from DirecTV was by far my most economical alternative.
New 18 X 24 Dish, 5 X 8 Multiswitch, HD DirecTV Receiver, Diplexer, OTA antennae, installation, Tax and Shipping for less than $400.
Anybody else taken advantage of this offer from DirecTV?

I already have a DirecTV/OTA tuner, but I'm hoping DirecTV has a promotion when the 4-tuner HD DirecTivo comes out. It's all I need to complete my HT to satisfaction. Well, that and I may still get my DVI input ISF calibrated, but don't know who has the equipment to do it.

Dean

BudShark , thanks they loved it. I didn't think it looked that good, but it is a 40 year old movie!

My son has a antenna in his attic that he once used so that he could get the local channels with his DISH TV system. He no longer needs it to receive the local channels. He said I could have it. Without knowing the brand or anything else about it. Do you think I could use this antenna along with DISH TV to receive the local OTA HD channels? Thanks.

Hi StlouG,

Where exactly is Oakville? Is it a St. Louis suburb?

A friend of mine lives in O'Fallon (about a half hour west of downtown St. Louis on I-70) and the antenna in his attic does just fine for him.

If you're a similar or lesser distance and don't live in a valley, your son's antenna should work for you too.

Hope this helps,

Oakville, is South St. Louis County, just north of Arnold. Basically, South of I-270, North of the Meremac River and East of I-55. I live in Oakville and the only problem I have with an antenna in my attic, is that I can't get UPN. But, that's because UPN's tower is almost the opposite direction of the other antennas in town. I plan on trying a second antenna, but will wait until UPN gets programming that I want to watch.

Is anyone having problems with channel 9 digital? I am not getting any signal. Also, a channel 75-1 has appeared and it just resets my box a SIR-T165.

Steve

Started Sunday getting good signal Zenith 420 picture will pop up for a split second then disappear signal strength remains steady.

If you cannot use a regular splitter to combine two antennas, then what is the proper thing to use?

I too am having trouble with Ch 9. I get a good signal strength, but it does not show a channel assignment and will not lock in. I have the 6000 receiver.

John

The following is the response to my email, to Charter, in regards to their lack of HD channels.

"At this time I do not have an official timeframe of when more HD channels are going to be added. I do know, however, that we are negotiations to have more HD content added. I apologize for the vague answer but this is honestly all we know right now.

Thank You
Charter Communications"

I tried a manual and an automatic retuning of channel 9 and got nothing, even though my Dish 6000 reports a good signal and a lock. It all looks good and normal, but 9 never appears in the guide after either procedure. I am, however, getting 9 on my HiPix HTPC normally. Anyone found a solution yet?

My Sony HD100 shows nothing but the blank "searching for digital signal" message on 9.1, 9.2, and 9.3.

On 9,
I was scanning up and down on my Panny TUHDS20, and for a second I got 9-3, then nothing.
On 11-1,
It was working fine, with on exception which has been mentioned before, it was about 11 pm and they had 14:9 stretchovision going. I thought back at the first meeting they said they weren't going to do that, but I could be remembering wrong.
Dug

I notice that my Sony HD100 is showing 100% reception strength for the 9.1, etc. signals but can't bring them in. I also notice that the next two generations of the same box are receiving 9 on its broadcast channel of 39.1, etc. I wonder if someone tried something with the encoding over there and messed up the signal. I know it is a step in the right direction for 9 to show what regular programming they have in HD and present the rest as well as they can but I miss those continually run demo features. They gave a kind of baseline for OTA HD and a way of always having something to show someone not versed in HD. Art

Jefftra,

I strongly recommend moving your antenna out of the attic. I have the same box and antenna you have with RG-6 quad sheild and am getting perfect reception on all local channels down in Crystal City. I have a feeling that if you moved it out of the attic it would cure your ills.

good luck.

Early this morning, my cable HD receiver (Motorola DCT-5100) received a download from Charter, and the firmware has been upgraded to version 07.05. (The software version is 51.42-2002; not sure if this was changed.)

I don't see any obvious improvements in function, but then I don't have a DVI display. If you do, you may want to see if DVI output is now enabled, as has been reported by Moto 5100 users in other parts of the country.

And if you spot any other changes in features or performance, please let the rest of us know . . .

Bill

Does anyone have a resource or web link that shows a picture or diagram of the remote control used with Charter's DCT5100 Motorola STB?

I'm working on a Pronto Pro NG universal remote programming project and forgot to take a copy of the customer's Charter HD documentation with me -- and I'd like to avoid a return trip just for that.

I checked the Motorola and Charter web sites for this. I suspect that Charter provides its own remote separately from the Motorola box, but in any event Motorola doesn't display any remotes with its online documentation for the DCT5100.

On the Charter web site, I was able to find only a picture of a Charter remote for the Scientific Atlanta PVR they offer in some markets.

I haven't seen enough of the Charter STBs to recall from memory. Can anyone tell me if this remote is close to what they're distributing with their HD STBs? I figure this should probably get me close...

http://www.charter.net/pdf/SA_AT8400_Remote_User_Guide.pdf

Apologies (yet again) for the off-topic post. I definitely appreciate any help anyone can provide.

Thanks.

how can u check your firmware?

Regarding this software upgrade mentioned above....I"m not sure what it means; however, at least Charter apparently did something. They have been very silent since the initial rollout.

To check the versions of software and firmware on the Charter HD cable receiver:

Press “Menu”
then select “Main Menu”
select “Setup”
select “Cable Box”
highlight “See Configuration” & press the right arrow key.

(from the Motorola High Definition STB FAQ, cjhengineering.com/5100faq.htm)

-- Bill

Originally posted by DroptheRemote
Does anyone have a resource or web link that shows a picture or diagram of the remote control used with Charter's DCT5100 Motorola STB?


Doug,

Currently, there are two primary remotes that are used for the DCT-5100's in this area.

Millenium-4
http://www.urcsupport.com

UR4-DCT
http://www.universalremote.com

If you ever need assistance with any Charter equipment/products or your Charter customers, you can PM directly and I can give you my direct line.

Good Luck,
4113

4113,

Thanks for the information and links. I really appreciate your assistance.

Hey guys, sorry barge in on the thread.
But if I want people to show up, this is the place to post a link :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344487


..... Okay, carry on.

The use of splitters in any distribution system will degrade your signal strength usually about 3.5 DB per output or more as follows,

All distribution must be done at the same location PERIOD! In other words one must never insert a "splitter" downstream of another.

A quality device will state its loss.

Now lets use them backwards!!

Used as a combiner some will work but most won't. If the small end says IN and the Outputs say 3.5 DB loss you have a splitter.

If they don't say anything take them back to Wallyworld or Radiorut and try again.

If the device says " splitter/ combiner" as some do give it a try.

Next week Diplexers! 2 signals down the same wire!

Stay Tuned and HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Thanks,
Ned Schifferdecker
The Satellite Man
10800 Lincoln Trail
Fairview Hts. IL 62208
866-966-3474

Originally posted by wgoldman
Early this morning, my cable HD receiver (Motorola DCT-5100) received a download from Charter, and the firmware has been upgraded to version 07.05. (The software version is 51.42-2002; not sure if this was changed.)


OK, so I just checked my info this morning - my firmware is 2 and my software version is 51.22-2002.

How do I get these 2 items upgraded since it was obviously not done automatically?

Strange, my firmware is now listed as "02" as well. Either there was another download from Charter, or this could be related to a service interruption that took place yesterday in my neighborhood (the MetroLink construction in Clayton apparently severed a cable line).

Again, from the Motorola High Definition STB FAQ (cjhengineering.com/5100faq.htm):

"The Firmware is a part of the boot process of the cable systems addressability service. When a STB is plugged in & connected to an active cable line this begins the Boot Process. The Boot Process has the firmware embedded in it, and checks to see that the latest firmware is installed in the STB. If not it will AUTOMATICALLY download it. The Cable Co. cannot initiate a firmware download, nor can it change the firmware in the STB. Quick & Dirty, is that if your box is connected to an active cable line, then you already have the latest Firmware, for your area.

When a Firmware Download occurs, the 5100 will turn off and the Front Panel Display will read "dl" with a single dash ( - ) that moves in a circular pattern. This process could take anywhere between 5-30min (give or take). During the Download you will be unable to use the box. DO NOT UNPLUG THE BOX DURING THE DOWNLOAD PROCESS. This could cause the box to not function properly once it's rebooted."

-- Bill

I am looking to switch from D* to E* -- thus replacing my DTC-100 with a free 811. Can anyone here recommend a good local Dish Network company/installer to do business with (preferibly in St. Charles County)?

Last night at about 12:45 PM, both of my motorola 5100's shut off completely and did this:

When a Firmware Download occurs, the 5100 will turn off and the Front Panel Display will read "dl" with a single dash ( - ) that moves in a circular pattern. This process could take anywhere between 5-30min (give or take). During the Download you will be unable to use the box. DO NOT UNPLUG THE BOX DURING THE DOWNLOAD PROCESS. This could cause the box to not function properly once it's rebooted."

Doug had asked me to provide my feedback regarding Dish Network installation and particularly the OTA antenna. Currently, no 811 HD boxes available so my install date is moved to Saturday, January 10.

OTA antenna: I did a search for dealers on the Internet and found a local dealer who actually builds antennas and ships out of his house. Turns out he is only about 2 miles from me in Wildwood off Ridge Rd, south of Manchester Rd. His site is www.antennasdirect.com and there is a good selection with mileage ranges. He personally uses model DB2, a 2-bay multi-directional UHF only mounted on roof. I called him to discuss. It started as a hobby for him since he was unable to buy a suitable antenna in the early days of DTV broadcasting. He must be pretty good because he has one large antenna that he is experimenting with that is picking up a station in Columbia, MO. Anyway, if you are in the Wildwood area I mentioned the DB2 picks up all DTV stations.

By the way, www.antennaweb.org has been updated. Now when you put in your address it shows the stations available and exactly how many miles your house is from each tower. For me, there is nothing farther than 16 miles (KMOV). Towers are mainly concentrated in the southeast part of St. Louis County.

KPLR DT will broadcast the TOURNAMENT OF ROSES PARADE 2004.
The program will be live on January 1, 2004 10:00A-12:30P.

I too had problems with 9-1, 9-2 and 9-3 on the evenings of 12/29 and 12/30. I watched them all throughout the weekend with great results. Somebody changed something. Think I'll call the station. Hang on - well, no luck. They are gone for the holiday. If I can't view their digital over New Year's, I'll call them Monday. Somebody needs to re-set their clock anyway.