Hi,

I apologize if this topic has been covered before. My HDTV is only equiped with
ATSC tuner but no QAM tuner. Local OTA reception is poor and I don't plan to
subscribe to digital cable TV as I don't spend much time on it. I do know my local
cable co provides free broadcast QAM channels. Can anybody recommend a
cheap QAM tuner?
Thank you very much in advance.

Wait a couple of months and get a DVDr with a QAM tuner.

Wait a couple of months and get a DVDr with a QAM tuner.

Thanks. What is DVDr? A DVD recorder with a built-in QAM tuner? What kind of
prices are we talking about? I already own a DVD recorder.

Wait a couple of months and get a DVDr with a QAM tuner.

I'm in the same boat as the OP. We definately need more info if you don't mind please. :)

Or get the new Samsung box.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp

Or get the new Samsung box.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp

Just looked at amazon site and its listed price is not cheap at all. In addition,
there is no mention of QAM tuner, just ATSC tuner, in the spec.

It's listed in the spec at Samsung's site and talked about in the 260 thread here. Unless you go to ebay for used STB's I doubt you will find anything less expensive.

Look at the current crop of DVDrs and add about $20-50 - that's what is likely to be available in a few months. You just need to ensure that the unit has a QAM tuner - only the ATSC tuner is required.

Other than the above you are unlikely to find any lower cost alternatives to use as a digital tuner for some time. The Sammy 260 STB at $170 is about the only choice at the moment. In a couple of months you can have something at that price point or lower w/ DVD archiving thrown in free. :cool:

Look at the current crop of DVDrs and add about $20-50 - that's what is likely to be available in a few months. You just need to ensure that the unit has a QAM tuner - only the ATSC tuner is required.

Other than the above you are unlikely to find any lower cost alternatives to use as a digital tuner for some time. The Sammy 260 STB at $170 is about the only choice at the moment. In a couple of months you can have something at that price point or lower w/ DVD archiving thrown in free. :cool:

I have not followed the development of DVD recorders for a while. So these will be DVD recorders with HD tuners? So these are non-HD recorder with a HD tuner just for the niche market (for people like me?)? I cannot imagine a HD DVD
recorder that is affordable available in the next few months. :)

Scanned thru eBay and it seems that the least expensive QAM tuner is a $100 no-name
tuner (excluding PC based tuner card) model RJ-1000ATSC.
Quick search in this forum yielded nothing about it. May be I should wait for the DVDr
coming out. :)

Oops, the $100 tuner has been talked about in another forum, my mistake.

Cpo33, what's the deal with that "no-name" tuner? What's with the oops comment? Is it junk or something? I'd be interested in a <$100 QAM ATSC tuner. I think I did see those on eBay a while back and wondered if they were any good. Do you mind elaborating on your previous comments please?

I have not followed the development of DVD recorders for a while. So these will be DVD recorders with HD tuners? So these are non-HD recorder with a HD tuner just for the niche market (for people like me?)? I cannot imagine a HD DVD
recorder that is affordable available in the next few months. :)
There's no such thing as an "HD" tuner - there are two digital tuners (to replace current NTSC analog tuners) - ATSC for OTA uses and QAM for use with cable.

The DVDrs coming out are simply current generation DVDrs w/ digital tuners added. And it is certainly is not a niche market - they will become the defacto "VCR" for the next decade.

Affordable, is a relative term. :cool:

Until the 09 analog shutdown, stand alone tuners will be a niche market and as such will be more expensive than they should be.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7770653

Cpo33, what's the deal with that "no-name" tuner? What's with the oops comment? Is it junk or something? I'd be interested in a <$100 QAM ATSC tuner. I think I did see those on eBay a while back and wondered if they were any good. Do you mind elaborating on your previous comments please?

The "Oops" was refering to my previous comment stating that the RJ-1000ATSC
was not talked about in this forum, but in fact it was, only in another topic.
You can find the thread that talked about it if you do a search, or follow the link
someone gave?
I have no knowledge of that RJ Tech tuner, except those talked about in the thread. Hope that help. So, right now these are the choices:

(1) Get the Samsung 460 for about $170
(2) Get the RJ-1000ATSC for $100 (some uncertainty here)
(3) Wait till the DVDr with DTV tuner come out
(4) Subscribe to digital cable (not for me)

Do you want this "tuner" to output an HD signal?

I don't think that these new type of DVD Recorders with the built in digital tuners(currently the Toshiba "appear" to be the only ones with a DVD recorder with all 3 tuners. NTSC/ATSC/QAM) will be able to do this.

Everything that is being received will need to be DOWNREZZED to 480i for recording.

I don't think these units can/will OUTPUT an HD picture like a standalone STB would.

I think this is important to the OP(CPO33) because he states he has a HDTV, but only with a ATSC tuner, and reception is spotty at best for him.

CPO33,

I would go into your local OTA(Over the Air) HD thread here in the forum, and find your location(they are listed by cities).

Talk to people who live near you, and see what they are using for an antenna.

You will find people who live near you will be very helpful in finding an antenna that works well.

Save your money on the DVD Recorders with digital tuner until you can get more info from people who get them. Then go to the DVD Recorder forum and find out about them.

I personally feel they are not going to be worth it.

Do you want this "tuner" to output an HD signal?

I don't think that these new type of DVD Recorders with the built in digital tuners(currently the Toshiba "appear" to be the only ones with a DVD recorder with all 3 tuners. NTSC/ATSC/QAM) will be able to do this.

Everything that is being received will need to be DOWNREZZED to 480i for recording.

I don't think these units can/will OUTPUT an HD picture like a standalone STB would.

I think this is important to the OP(CPO33) because he states he has a HDTV, but only with a ATSC tuner, and reception is spotty at best for him.

CPO33,

I would go into your local OTA(Over the Air) HD thread here in the forum, and find your location(they are listed by cities).

Talk to people who live near you, and see what they are using for an antenna.

You will find people who live near you will be very helpful in finding an antenna that works well.

Save your money on the DVD Recorders with digital tuner until you can get more info from people who get them. Then go to the DVD Recorder forum and find out about them.

I personally feel they are not going to be worth it.

Yeah, I can imagine at least some of the forthcoming DVD recorders with QAM tuner won't provide outputs to allow good HD connection to a HD monitor. The
ones that do may cost more than others.
I have already spent time on OTA reception. I don't want an outdoor antenna.
I have tried indoor antenna (the double bow-tie UHF type) with Winegard
pre-amp and the reception is still not that good.
Well, may be in a year or two, I will get a bigger 1080p TV with QAM tuner. :)

There's no such thing as an "HD" tuner - there are two digital tuners (to replace current NTSC analog tuners) - ATSC for OTA uses and QAM for use with cable.

The DVDrs coming out are simply current generation DVDrs w/ digital tuners added. And it is certainly is not a niche market - they will become the defacto "VCR" for the next decade.

Affordable, is a relative term. :cool:

Until the 09 analog shutdown, stand alone tuners will be a niche market and as such will be more expensive than they should be.

Yeah, I know. However, many people have associated DTV with HD broadcasting.
If the RJ-1000ATSC provides good quality HD signal at its component output
(Samsung has HDMI output), that may be the cheapest choice right now.
I have a feeling that the newer breed of DTV DVDr with necessary outputs may
cost a lot more than what a low end DVDr cost nowaday. You can get a low end
Lite-On DVDr for, like, $80?
a low end

Yeah, I know. However, many people have associated DTV with HD broadcasting.
If the RJ-1000ATSC provides good quality HD signal at its component output
(Samsung has HDMI output), that may be the cheapest choice right now.
I have a feeling that the newer breed of DTV DVDr with necessary outputs may
cost a lot more than what a low end DVDr cost nowaday. You can get a low end
Lite-On DVDr for, like, $80?
a low end

The Samsung also has component out. You can read the specs here.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp?page=Specifications

I have a feeling that the newer breed of DTV DVDr with necessary outputs may
cost a lot more than what a low end DVDr cost nowaday. You can get a low end
Lite-On DVDr for, like, $80?
a low end
Yeah, and that same DVDr with an ATSC/QAM tuner will be like $120. If you need a simple tuner, it should suffice. Now, if you want HDMI and a bunch of other features - that will cost more.

Until they actually come out one can't say with certainty what features they will have and how well they work.

If you have to watch something tomorrow via QAM, go buy the Sammy 260 or RJ-1000 tuner (or better yet rent an STB). If you can wait a couple of months, see what the new breed of DVDrs have to offer.

The Samsung also has component out. You can read the specs here.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp?page=Specifications

What I meant was Samsung has HDMI output which is better. The highest
quality output of the RJ-1000ATSC is only component.

Yeah, and that same DVDr with an ATSC/QAM tuner will be like $120. If you need a simple tuner, it should suffice. Now, if you want HDMI and a bunch of other features - that will cost more.

Until they actually come out one can't say with certainty what features they will have and how well they work.

If you have to watch something tomorrow via QAM, go buy the Sammy 260 or RJ-1000 tuner (or better yet rent an STB). If you can wait a couple of months, see what the new breed of DVDrs have to offer.

$120? I suspect it may be a bit more, at least at first. If so, it will be a good deal,
certainly beats a $100 tuner only.

$120? I suspect it may be a bit more, at least at first. If so, it will be a good deal,
certainly beats a $100 tuner only.
On average, the new DVDrs announced so far are $50 above last years' models. These are from major brands. The lower tier makers should keep the increase even smaller. So, if a current DVDr is $80, $120 with a digital tuner should certainly be doable.

I recently bought a RJ-1000ATSC from eCost specifically for the QAM tuner. I have two TV's with QAM tuners and get all of the locals in HD. When I hooked up the RJ-1000ATSC to the cable and had it scan, it found the same channels that my TV's QAM tuners find. The first channel it finds is ESPN, but it is very fuzzy and in B&W, the rest of them say "Scrambled Channel". There is no issue with signal strength, as the meter built into the tuner shows a a good signal. I have tried all four cable modes: Cable, Auto Cable, Cable HRC & Cable IRC with no luck.

I gave RJTech a call and their response was we have never tried the QAM feature, why don't you hook up an antenna. If I wanted to use an antenna I would use the ATSC tuner (but not QAM) built into the TV.

A Philips DVDr (3505) with a digital tuner seems to be the first one available - but it is unclear whether it passes the HD signal to the outputs or it uses the downcoverted signal being used for the DVD portion of the unit at the output. It's supposed to be available at Walmart for $150 - only $10 more than the unit it replaces.

I recently bought a RJ-1000ATSC from eCost specifically for the QAM tuner. I have two TV's with QAM tuners and get all of the locals in HD. When I hooked up the RJ-1000ATSC to the cable and had it scan, it found the same channels that my TV's QAM tuners find. The first channel it finds is ESPN, but it is very fuzzy and in B&W, the rest of them say "Scrambled Channel". There is no issue with signal strength, as the meter built into the tuner shows a a good signal. I have tried all four cable modes: Cable, Auto Cable, Cable HRC & Cable IRC with no luck.

I gave RJTech a call and their response was we have never tried the QAM feature, why don't you hook up an antenna. If I wanted to use an antenna I would use the ATSC tuner (but not QAM) built into the TV.

Looks to me that your RJ-1000ATSC is defective. That kind of response from their support is inexcusable.
See if you can return or sell the tuner at eBay. By the way, according to the RJ-1000ATSC thread, it only ouputs 480i converted signal, so even if your tuner works, it will not look as good as your other HDTV with built-in QAM tuners.

A Philips DVDr (3505) with a digital tuner seems to be the first one available - but it is unclear whether it passes the HD signal to the outputs or it uses the downcoverted signal being used for the DVD portion of the unit at the output. It's supposed to be available at Walmart for $150 - only $10 more than the unit it replaces.

My guess is that it only outputs downconverted signal to the output since that's all it needed to produce for recording. They don't need a HD MPEG decoder and may be able to save money on it (like in the case of the RJ-1000ATSC). May be higher end DVDr recorders coming out will provide HD out.

My guess is that it only outputs downconverted signal to the output since that's all it needed to produce for recording. They don't need a HD MPEG decoder and may be able to save money on it (like in the case of the RJ-1000ATSC). May be higher end DVDr recorders coming out will provide HD out.

Oops, my mistake. They still need a HD MPEG decoder to decode HD signal. However, they may be using some sort of transcoder for the downconvertion and cannot produce HD signal conveniently. It costs more to also output HD as well as SD signals to the outputs anyway (components, HDMI).

A Philips DVDr (3505) with a digital tuner seems to be the first one available - but it is unclear whether it passes the HD signal to the outputs or it uses the downcoverted signal being used for the DVD portion of the unit at the output. It's supposed to be available at Walmart for $150 - only $10 more than the unit it replaces.

I looked at the spec of the DVDR3505/07 at its site. It has no DTV tuner, just SD tuner. What it has is upconversion from 480i to 1080i at its HDMI output (like many DVD players provide these days). That's why it's only $10 more.

I looked at the spec of the DVDR3505/07 at its site. It has no DTV tuner, just SD tuner. What it has is upconversion from 480i to 1080i at its HDMI output (like many DVD players provide these days). That's why it's only $10 more.
There's no such thing as an "SD only tuner". The ATSC tuner can tune and decode all formats including HD, DTV - all forms of OTA digital. What it may not do is pass those HD signals directly to the outputs.

While not mentioned in the specs, the manual for this unit suggests that it also has a QAM tuner.

Standard Definition Television (SDTV) Tuner - SDTV Tuner refers to a RF receiver with the following minimum performance attributes:
- Receiver: Receives ATSC terrestrial digital transmissions and decodes all ATSC Table 3 video formats.
- Outputs: Outputs all ATSC table 3 formats in the form of NTSC output.
- Audio: Receives and reproduces, and/or outputs Dolby Digital audio.

When Cpo33 said it had no DTV tuner, SD only tuner - I assumed he was implying it can't receive digital OTA, including HD signals.

A more correct thing to say with all TV equipment is to say it has an ATSC tuner (that can tune all digital OTA signals) and it can output or display x (where x could be a number of formats.

A number of people incorrectly assume that as soon as you label something "SD", you can't receive HD. Like people say: you can't tune to an HD OTA ch with an SDTV. :rolleyes:

Oops, my mistake. They still need a HD MPEG decoder to decode HD signal. However, they may be using some sort of transcoder for the downconvertion and cannot produce HD signal conveniently. It costs more to also output HD as well as SD signals to the outputs anyway (components, HDMI).
I'm guessing that these new generation of DVD Recorders will definately be able to output HD. Here's why. They will all have at least an ATSC tuner and some will have a QAM tuner. The hardware part that's needed is to convert the HD MPEG-2 streams to SD MPEG-2 files that are suitable for burning to DVDs. I'm thinking that it would be trivial to pass along the HD MPEG-2 stream right to the TV that can accept it.

Now, there may be issues with going through component and HDMI and the TVs not accepting certain formats. However, just about all HDTVs (not the HD monitors) have at least one RF input that will definately accept the ATSC/QAM streams. How hard would it be for the OEMs to throw in a splitter in the back of the unit to pass the signal through, just like a VCR with NTSC?

ftaok

There's no such thing as an "SD only tuner". The ATSC tuner can tune and decode all formats including HD, DTV - all forms of OTA digital. What it may not do is pass those HD signals directly to the outputs.

While not mentioned in the specs, the manual for this unit suggests that it also has a QAM tuner.

At second look, it does say something like "SDTV tuner for digital television reception" so I suppose it means DTV receiver. It's a mistake in its description. If I have to guess, it implies it always does downconversion with the received DTV signal, thus it uses the word "SDTV tuner".

Well, the spec on Philips web site certainly does not indicate any hint of a DTV tuner. The word "SD tuner" is used on its spec provided. If it has DTV tuner built-in, why it doesn't listed on its spec or features list is interesting as it's a very desirable feature. I haven't found the manual for it yet.

As I pointed out above a SD Tuner is a DTV tuner. It receives a ATSC signal, but outputs it as NTSC (standard definition, hence the SD).

Remember DTV does not always mean HDTV. You can have digital TV without HD, but you cannot have HDTV without DTV.

Standard Definition Television (SDTV) Tuner - SDTV Tuner refers to a RF receiver with the following minimum performance attributes:
- Receiver: Receives ATSC terrestrial digital transmissions and decodes all ATSC Table 3 video formats.
- Outputs: Outputs all ATSC table 3 formats in the form of NTSC output.
- Audio: Receives and reproduces, and/or outputs Dolby Digital audio.

Yes, you guys are correct. I was assuming SDTV tuner means NTSC only tuner, to differentiate between SD/HD.
So what you are saying suggests that it only provide downconverted NTSC signals, I guess?

I'm guessing that these new generation of DVD Recorders will definately be able to output HD. Here's why. They will all have at least an ATSC tuner and some will have a QAM tuner. The hardware part that's needed is to convert the HD MPEG-2 streams to SD MPEG-2 files that are suitable for burning to DVDs. I'm thinking that it would be trivial to pass along the HD MPEG-2 stream right to the TV that can accept it.

Now, there may be issues with going through component and HDMI and the TVs not accepting certain formats. However, just about all HDTVs (not the HD monitors) have at least one RF input that will definately accept the ATSC/QAM streams. How hard would it be for the OEMs to throw in a splitter in the back of the unit to pass the signal through, just like a VCR with NTSC?

ftaok

I am sure that if they intend to provide HD output, they can.
I am not sure what signal or pass thru you are talking about. It has to demodulate the RF signal and provide the digital stream to the output. I doubt anybody will demodulate QAM and re-modulate into ATSC and provide it at output.
The extra hardware is partly in multiplexing at HDMI/component output. It also depends on the architecture/IO of the ICs used to demodulate/decode/transcode to see whether it is convenient to provide such signal.

After looking at the manual of the DVDR3505, I am changing my mind. :)
I think it may provide HD signal at its HDMI output. One hint is that on the HDMI menu display page, there is a "Channel number" display. However, it needs to be confirmed by an actual owner.

The signal at the HDMI output is HD - because the unit upconverts everything to HD. But you can't tell (till someone tries it) if that HD signal is derived directly from the tuner (and really is HD material) or it's the the result of an upconverted 480i signal (obtained from the downconversion process used for the DVD portion of the unit).

The thing is, depending on the TV and the persons' eyesight - it might not make a diff.

The signal at the HDMI output is HD - because the unit upconverts everything to HD. But you can't tell (till someone tries it) if that HD signal is derived directly from the tuner (and really is HD material) or it's the the result of an upconverted 480i signal (obtained from the downconversion process used for the DVD portion of the unit).

The thing is, depending on the TV and the persons' eyesight - it might not make a diff.

Yeah, it needs to be verified by an actual owner. It usually makes a difference even if you are sitting say 8 ft away from the HDTV. I think most people here own a HDTV big enough to make a difference.