Anybody notice, today is the 17th of February, 2007?

http://www.mstv.org/

Anybody notice, today is the 17th of February, 2007?

http://www.mstv.org/



YIKES!! :eek: Time is sure flying quickly. It would be nice if they put a countdown clock on the main page like some other website does.

The countdown clock is ticking... Tick, tock, tick, tock.

Seriously the two years to shutdown day is worthy of a discussion and a poll. A poll along the lines of - choose one of the following:

A. The analog shutdown will occur on February 17, 2009 with all full power stations going dark and many LP and translator stations will do or have already done digital flash cut conversions by that date.
B. The analog shutdown will begin on February 17, 2009 with many full power analog stations going dark, but waivers all over the place for full power & LP stations & translators, dragging the analog shutdown process into late 2009. It will be a messy process with a lot of public confusion, especially in the press.
C. The analog shutdown will be delayed up to 1 year because of a hue & cry resulting in Congress postponing the date.
D. The analog shutdown will be delayed up to 2 years because of a hue & cry resulting in Congress postponing the date.
E. NTSC Analog TV broadcast shutdown? What analog shutdown?

My poll is probably too wordy, but it would be interesting to see what the responses would be for the more knowledgable people here. If someone were to go to a shopping mall and poll people at random, E would get probably get 80 to 90%. :D

A.

The interesting thing will be to see the reaction when the required consumer ads talking about the shutdown start a year from now. Heck, it might even be an issue during the elections.

The countdown clock is ticking... Tick, tock, tick, tock.

Seriously the two years to shutdown day is worthy of a discussion and a poll. A poll along the lines of - choose one of the following:

A. The analog shutdown will occur on February 17, 2009 with all full power stations going dark and many LP and translator stations will do or have already done digital flash cut conversions by that date.
B. The analog shutdown will begin on February 17, 2009 with many full power analog stations going dark, but waivers all over the place for full power & LP stations & translators, dragging the analog shutdown process into late 2009. It will be a messy process with a lot of public confusion, especially in the press.
C. The analog shutdown will be delayed up to 1 year because of a hue & cry resulting in Congress postponing the date.
D. The analog shutdown will be delayed up to 2 years because of a hue & cry resulting in Congress postponing the date.
E. NTSC Analog TV broadcast shutdown? What analog shutdown?

My poll is probably too wordy, but it would be interesting to see what the responses would be for the more knowledgable people here. If someone were to go to a shopping mall and poll people at random, E would get probably get 80 to 90%. :D

I didn't think there was any date for LP stations to go digital. When did that happen?

The countdown clock is ticking... Tick, tock, tick, tock.

Seriously the two years to shutdown day is worthy of a discussion and a poll. A poll along the lines of - choose one of the following:

A. The analog shutdown will occur on February 17, 2009 with all full power stations going dark and many LP and translator stations will do or have already done digital flash cut conversions by that date.
B. The analog shutdown will begin on February 17, 2009 with many full power analog stations going dark, but waivers all over the place for full power & LP stations & translators, dragging the analog shutdown process into late 2009. It will be a messy process with a lot of public confusion, especially in the press.
C. The analog shutdown will be delayed up to 1 year because of a hue & cry resulting in Congress postponing the date.
D. The analog shutdown will be delayed up to 2 years because of a hue & cry resulting in Congress postponing the date.
E. NTSC Analog TV broadcast shutdown? What analog shutdown?

My poll is probably too wordy, but it would be interesting to see what the responses would be for the more knowledgable people here. If someone were to go to a shopping mall and poll people at random, E would get probably get 80 to 90%. :D


aliggatt, you forgot to add "F." ALL ABOVE.

I think it will be B. and D. I say that is I am sure they going to remove the analog and move up the digital antenna and since not all are at full power so don't know if it will work at full power. It not like in every town has a service tech to work on those high powered transtmitter and high towers. I think they should do it in section across US to switch over and beside the famous Homeland security has not develop the new radio system that the VHF-low and the UFO 52-69 will be use by Federal, State and Local Emergency times. Remember Kirtria well prepared :rolleyes: .
Yes the public will be confuse and the press is not helping. The other day a local TV news doing a story on the ABC's of Digital TV. What they do they had a local electronics store telling how it works and he said " YOU MUST HAVE A HDTV TV SET IN ORDER TO GET DIGITAL SIGINAL. " Why didn't the reporter go to their TV station chief engineer to have him to say how the DTV AND HDTV works. You go to big box store all they tell you to get HD you need Sat or Local Cable. SDTV is just the same as analog but much, much better picture and don't need HDTV Set to get it. Yes, I think 10 years from now SDTV will be the pass and all will be HDTV and next generation of HDTV will be out.

E. I am sure Oil and Power co would be frowning :( :mad: on that because now the TV station will only have 1 transmitter to power instead of 2. Damn I am glad I don't have to pay the power bill.

I didn't think there was any date for LP stations to go digital. When did that happen?
The low power stations have to convert to digital as well. Those that do not have a separate digital channel transition allotment - which is most of them - will do a digital flash-cut conversion. That is, they will shut down the analog broadcast and fire up a digital broadcast. I am not up on the details the conversion plan for the Class A & LP stations and the translators, but I gather the FCC is still working on it with some of the more remote translators located on mountaintops being a problem. How do they replace them in the time left? Perhaps some one in the industry can put together a short summary of what the plan is for the around 3000 LPTV stations in the US.

aliggatt, you forgot to add "F." ALL ABOVE.
I don't see that. The first four are rather different outcomes. :D

I think they should do it in section across US to switch over and beside the famous Homeland security has not develop the new radio system that the VHF-low and the UFO 52-69 will be use by Federal, State and Local Emergency times.
Just to be clear, the low VHF channels will still be used for digital TV broadcast. Some 50 stations will be broadcasting on low VHF in 2009. It is the upper UHF channels 52 to 69 that are being taken away


Yes the public will be confuse and the press is not helping. The other day a local TV news doing a story on the ABC's of Digital TV. What they do they had a local electronics store telling how it works and he said " YOU MUST HAVE A HDTV TV SET IN ORDER TO GET DIGITAL SIGINAL. " Why didn't the reporter go to their TV station chief engineer to have him to say how the DTV AND HDTV works. You go to big box store all they tell you to get HD you need Sat or Local Cable.
I agree that the mass media press does a terrible job of explaining digital TV and broadcasts. I think the major problem is that most of them, even TV reporters, have no idea of how the current analog TV system works, so the new more complicated digital TV totally confuses them. And the big chain stores who get money from selling DirecTV or Dish systems are not honest brokers for the public in this transition.

I think 85 to 90% of the folks in my DMA won't even notice that something will have changed on Feb 18, 2009 ... Of course some might scratch their head over 'dem dang black bars at the top and bottom of their screen. ;)

The low power stations have to convert to digital as well. Those that do not have a separate digital channel transition allotment - which is most of them - will do a digital flash-cut conversion. That is, they will shut down the analog broadcast and fire up a digital broadcast. I am not up on the details the conversion plan for the Class A & LP stations and the translators, but I gather the FCC is still working on it with some of the more remote translators located on mountaintops being a problem. How do they replace them in the time left? Perhaps some one in the industry can put together a short summary of what the plan is for the around 3000 LPTV stations in the US.

Don't think there is any time set for LP stations. They could stay analog for years.

Just to be clear, the low VHF channels will still be used for digital TV broadcast. Some 50 stations will be broadcasting on low VHF in 2009. It is the upper UHF channels 52 to 69 that are being taken away.


:confused: I thought that Congress wants to take away VHF-Low Ch. 2-6 away from TV station also and just use VHF-High ch. 7-13 and lower UHF ch. 14-51 for the DTV. :rolleyes: But again sometime you wonder if the D.C. people know what they are talking about or even if they know any thing about what bills they pass or what the bills means.

Yes I hope A. will be the answer and goes smoothly.

I have to agree with Charlie Rhodes, who says that VHF Low-Band channels will probably be unusable for DTV. Too much noise, too many problems. And, the BPL thing may wipe them out, anyway.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0072/t.p0001.html

Don't think there is any time set for LP stations. They could stay analog for years.

LPTV and Class A's are under the same drop dead date as full power.

Don't know if the bill pass or not, but its a good bill. It just cover about educating the public on the Analog shutdown on 2-17-09

http://www.nab.org/xert/corpcomm/pressrel/releases/012207_DTV_Edu_Act.pdf

I say that is I am sure they going to remove the analog and move up the digital antenna and since not all are at full power so don't know if it will work at full power.

All of the central Ohio digital stations have been at full power for at least the last 18 months, as required by the FCC.

Don't know if the bill pass or not, but its a good bill. It just cover about educating the public on the Analog shutdown on 2-17-09

http://www.nab.org/xert/corpcomm/pressrel/releases/012207_DTV_Edu_Act.pdf
I've seen signs like that described in part 2. But people only see those when they are already out shopping. I haven't seen any other obvious info about the transition. The bill does have good info in it.

LPTV and Class A's are under the same drop dead date as full power.

Don't think so. No date has been set AFAIK.

http://www.wileyrein.com/publication_newsletters.cfm?sp=title&year=2004&id=11&publication_id=9523&keyword=

"The digital transition of these facilities will end at a date after the full-power DTV transition; however, the Commission did not actually set a date. The issue will be considered as part of the FCC’s third periodic review of the DTV transition."

Unless they have set a date since this article.

Don't think so. No date has been set AFAIK.
"The digital transition of these facilities will end at a date after the full-power DTV transition; however, the Commission did not actually set a date. The issue will be considered as part of the FCC’s third periodic review of the DTV transition."
Unless they have set a date since this article.
That article is from 2004. The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 (S.1392) which took effect on Feb. 1, 2006 changed the rules. A google search turns up some details. There is money set aside to help rural low power stations convert to digital. Here is a website that appears to show the time line for the conversion: http://www.benton.org/index.php?q=node/1257. The key bit is:

"February 17, 2009 Analog TV broadcasts from full-power TV stations in the US ends. Low-power stations, including Class A stations, may continue broadcasting in analog format after this day, subject to future decisions by the FCC on how to complete the digital television transition for such stations.

February 18, 2009 By this date the FCC must require that all TV broadcasting occur only on channels between channels 2 and 36, inclusive, or 38 and 51, inclusive (between frequencies 54 and 698 megahertz, inclusive). If low-power stations want to be compensated for digital-to-analog conversion devices, they must make request by end of day."

So the final date for digital conversion of the low power stations is left up to the FCC, but all stations must vacate channels 52 to 69 by Feb. 18, 2009 - period. Removal of all these channels from the broadcast spectrum may force the transition of many low power stations to digital to fit into the frequency space available. What I'm not clear on is what exactly the FCC has decided to do. Is the plan for the Class A and low power stations something that is still being worked out?

That article is from 2004. The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 (S.1392) which took effect on Feb. 1, 2006 changed the rules. A google search turns up some details. There is money set aside to help rural low power stations convert to digital. Here is a website that appears to show the time line for the conversion: http://www.benton.org/index.php?q=node/1257. The key bit is:

"February 17, 2009 Analog TV broadcasts from full-power TV stations in the US ends. Low-power stations, including Class A stations, may continue broadcasting in analog format after this day, subject to future decisions by the FCC on how to complete the digital television transition for such stations.

February 18, 2009 By this date the FCC must require that all TV broadcasting occur only on channels between channels 2 and 36, inclusive, or 38 and 51, inclusive (between frequencies 54 and 698 megahertz, inclusive). If low-power stations want to be compensated for digital-to-analog conversion devices, they must make request by end of day."

So the final date for digital conversion of the low power stations is left up to the FCC, but all stations must vacate channels 52 to 69 by Feb. 18, 2009 - period. Removal of all these channels from the broadcast spectrum may force the transition of many low power stations to digital to fit into the frequency space available. What I'm not clear on is what exactly the FCC has decided to do. Is the plan for the Class A and low power stations something that is still being worked out?

Yes they are still working it out. In the meantime LPTV stations can stay on the air analog below 52. LPTV stations can stay on the air analog above 51 also until buyers of that spectrum force them off. LPTV stations are second class anyway so buyers of channels above 51 can and already are forcing them off their spectrum.

February 17, 2009 means nothing to LPTV stations on any channel unless they interfere with any other broadcaster or buyer of a channel above 51 which is true today. The FCC auction next spring of the remaining channels above 51 not already sold will introduce new buyers who could force LPTV stations off their spectrum before, on or after 2/17/2009.

From my reading in TVWeek, and paying attention to the broadcast issues that still occur in my market (Tampa, #12) there is no way that the conversion happens as scheduled. My feeling is that they need 4 - 8 years after the digital tuner mandate (March 1st) in order to allow a semi natural replacement cycle to happen. People aren't going to run out and buy a $200 set top box to convert their $200 TV in their apartment in the ghetto. These are the kinds of people that rely on OTA tuning for their TV. Not the people in the Subs with HDTVs and Cable. It's an inconvenience to you an me to deal with both analog and digital, but the government didn't make the digital tuner mandate soon enough to convert to digital only in 2009. Try 2016. That's my guess. 9 years after the mandate. Their $20 digital converter boxes never materialized. Members in congress now are already talking 09 is too soon. We'll see. Hopefully I'm wrong.

These are the kinds of people that rely on OTA tuning for their TV.
But, they're in small enough numbers and not very local voters to make a diff to politicians. Plus, they don't know it's coming. They can scream all they want after 2/09 but it will be too late. Once the switch on analog is flipped, it's not coming back.

People aren't going to run out and buy a $200 set top box to convert their $200 TV in their apartment in the ghetto
No, they'll get it for $10 ($50STB - $40 coupon). Or they'll sell the coupon to make a buck. :rolleyes:

From my reading in TVWeek, and paying attention to the broadcast issues that still occur in my market (Tampa, #12) there is no way that the conversion happens as scheduled. My feeling is that they need 4 - 8 years after the digital tuner mandate (March 1st) in order to allow a semi natural replacement cycle to happen. People aren't going to run out and buy a $200 set top box to convert their $200 TV in their apartment in the ghetto. These are the kinds of people that rely on OTA tuning for their TV. Not the people in the Subs with HDTVs and Cable. It's an inconvenience to you an me to deal with both analog and digital, but the government didn't make the digital tuner mandate soon enough to convert to digital only in 2009. Try 2016. That's my guess. 9 years after the mandate. Their $20 digital converter boxes never materialized. Members in congress now are already talking 09 is too soon. We'll see. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Many people have little or no knowledge of the transition, let alone the coupon program as shown here (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/index.htm) . But regardless, even if the subsidized STB was on the market today, there would be no buyers. That won't happen until just before the transition, regardless of when that would be. And there won't be any on the market before a demand is percieved to exist. Waiting for the last minute will get you a better-designed and cheaper product with more features. People have learned that lesson long ago.

Many people have little or no knowledge of the transition, let alone the coupon program as shown here (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/index.htm) . But regardless, even if the subsidized STB was on the market today, there would be no buyers. That won't happen until just before the transition, regardless of when that would be. And there won't be any on the market before a demand is percieved to exist. Waiting for the last minute will get you a better-designed and cheaper product with more features. People have learned that lesson long ago.

No features allowed on the subsidized converter. No HD output for example only capable of converting to an analog tv set AFAIK.

Question: Can the subsidized converter box have an led light to let you know it is on or is that illegal?

So far the NTIA has not issued specifications for this converter box. Without the specs who would attempt to build it?

http://ciir.cs.umass.edu/cgi-bin/ua/web_fetch_doc?dataset=ua&db=agendaFall2006&query=and&doc_id=24

"The agency has been informed that the specifications for the converter box, as directed in the final rule, must be available at least one year in advance. To the extent that the final rule is not issued by January 2007, converter boxes may not be available when the statutory application period begins."

Everyone seems to expect that it will cost $50 and $10 after the $40 coupon is used but has any manufacturer confirmed that? How could they without specifications on what is allowed.

Are other cost that are part of normal manufacturing and distribution included in that $50 estimate? Sales cost, returns cost, marketing cost, distribution cost and markups for retailers? Or will manufacturers say that the $50 was only an estimate of raw manufacturing cost?

How much will it cost the government to administer this whole program? Will they give out a cost plus no bid contract to Haliburton? That could add say $1000 to the cost of each converter.

Will anyone want a no frills basic basic box and will it be the best technology? How much will it cost the buyer to plug it in? Will they need to get special help with antennas?

Will most of these converters be scarfed up by early adopters in the know before those it is truly intended to help? It is meant for those who can't afford cable and satellite right? Those who still depend on broadcast TV and probably don't have a clue about digital TV.

I watched the "Communicators" on cable last week, C-Span, and the guy in charge of the converter program, John Kneuer at the NTIA, basically said that their hands were tied and they would only do what Congress had authorized. He basically said two years ahead of time, whatever happens it ain't our fault.

Congress authorized a no frills converter for analog TV sets and no one seems to even know what that means.

Nothing pro-active going on in Congress or at the NTIA it looks like.

Will they give out a cost plus no bid contract to Haliburton? That could add say $1000 to the cost of each converter.

Classic!

No features allowed on the subsidized converter. No HD output for example only capable of converting to an analog tv set AFAIK.

True - there are user features, and internal features. Internal features such as better ATSC chip sets for lower cost, improved multi-path rejection, or improved sensitivity. CC ability would be a necessity. One comment received suggested terrestrial-sourced software updates. Maybe "features" is the wrong word. Building the box today would be more expensive and would not be able to take advantage of improvements still being made today. Also, having multiple iterations of the same product would add to the total manufacturing costs. There needs to be a point where design must be finalized to make the boxes available by the holiday season in 2008, and I don't know the figures for design-to-shelf, but new products are introduced only months after a new chipset is announced.

True - there are user features, and internal features. Internal features such as better ATSC chip sets for lower cost, improved multi-path rejection, or improved sensitivity. CC ability would be a necessity. One comment received suggested terrestrial-sourced software updates. Maybe "features" is the wrong word. Building the box today would be more expensive and would not be able to take advantage of improvements still being made today. Also, having multiple iterations of the same product would add to the total manufacturing costs. There needs to be a point where design must be finalized to make the boxes available by the holiday season in 2008, and I don't know the figures for design-to-shelf, but new products are introduced only months after a new chipset is announced.

I don't think the intent of Congress was for a converter that would have the capability of terrestrial-sourced software updates. That would be an extra bit of cost that is not allowed. No frills means just that IMO.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/otiahome/dtv/S1932_titleIII.pdf

"(d) DEFINITION OF DIGITAL-TO-ANALOG CONVERTER BOX.—For
purposes of this section, the term ‘‘digital-to-analog converter box’’
means a stand-alone device that does not contain features or functions
except those necessary to enable a consumer to convert any
channel broadcast in the digital television service into a format
that the consumer can display on television receivers designed
to receive and display signals only in the analog television service,
but may also include a remote control device."

A minimalist type receiver. Do you think this would allow an LED on/off indicator?

The Dickensian households this is meant to serve will be tickled pink. Can't wait to see the NTIA specifications.

A minimalist type receiver. Do you think this would allow an LED on/off indicator?

You can take this to any extreme you want to - i.e., no enclosure box, no rubber feet - needs batteries - whatever. The comment about the self-updating software was a suggestion to the NTIA by another party, not me. Personally, I think it was nothing more than a hope to upgrade the minimalist idea to something more profitable - but it is something that the NTIA needs to sort out - not any one of us. The main key will probably be a tradeoff between something safe, usable, minimalist, and low cost. If there's an off-the-shelf assembly that has an LED and power switch which is cheaper than one without the LED (because of manufacturing quantity discounts), then yes, there can be an LED. Unplugging the unit to power on/off may be deemed too unsafe (especially in the kid's room).

This doesn't need to be that complex. Any simple STB with whatever cheap ATSC chip is around in mid 08 with RF coax and composite outputs will do. No one will be forced to make something for $50. If it ends up being $60, so be it. If for some reason no maker thinks they'll sell enough to make their money back at those prices, no one will make one. But considering the Accurian and other low end STBs were already available for less than $100 last year, getting something simpler made by the end of 08 for $50 seems doable.

The ATSC Digital Television Standard has been adopted and deployed in Canada, Mexico, the United States and South Korea and the latest is Honduras.

Yep Mexico use ATSC Standards. I guess any legal U.S. people will not get any subsidized $40.00 coupon. Just might as well give 1.5 Billion dollars to Mexico since we already subsidize health care, Education, rights and everything else for them.

That is scary.

You can take this to any extreme you want to - i.e., no enclosure box, no rubber feet - needs batteries - whatever. The comment about the self-updating software was a suggestion to the NTIA by another party, not me. Personally, I think it was nothing more than a hope to upgrade the minimalist idea to something more profitable - but it is something that the NTIA needs to sort out - not any one of us. The main key will probably be a tradeoff between something safe, usable, minimalist, and low cost. If there's an off-the-shelf assembly that has an LED and power switch which is cheaper than one without the LED (because of manufacturing quantity discounts), then yes, there can be an LED. Unplugging the unit to power on/off may be deemed too unsafe (especially in the kid's room).

If you watch the video of the C-Span interview with the NTIA guy you will see him being adamant about following the letter of the law laid down by Congress and damn the torpedoes. He says more than once that Congress made the law and it is not his prerogative to second guess them.

He was emphatic enough to make be believe anyway that he is aware that there are going to be some major problems/misunderstandings and he wants to make sure that he leaves a public record of who is at fault.

I've been wondering if a 5.1 audio output will be in the NTIA spec. As for availability, I'd say that as long as the coupons and boxes are available in Q2 or Q3 of 2008, and widely available in Q4 of '08, most of the target market of those things won't care about the delay.

The two prototype boxes are pretty slick (I have both for evaluation).

The LG is about the size of 4 or 5 DVD cases, or the size of a large paperback book. It has a "rug-lump" power supply for it's own use, and a separate one for the SmartAntenna option. It outputs a channel 3 or 4 with mono audio, as well as a composite video and stereo audio via RCA plugs. It outputs 480i video, no HD. It has no S-VHS output (something that I think should be added, if only for the fact that it would make them more attractive for outright purchase....think "second set", non-home use, or "P-I-P" tuner for a big screen set). The remote control that came with the demo is the same as the 4200A uses. Most of the EPG functions look the same as their full HD box.

The RCA is built into a large PVR chassis. I think their intentions were to show the capabilities right now, with the final product to be done later. It has the same input and output capabilities as the LG, plus it has an IR Blaster and timer functions for a VCR or PVR connection. The one I received has a bad remote control receiver, so I opened it up to look around. Top of the line chips from Broadcom and Thomson. Built-in power supplies.

Both units are equipped for the SmartAntenna interface. This uses a small i/f adapter to put power and control signals onto the RF cable. The outdoor antenna (currently selling for about $80) has two crossed dipole antennas in a plastic housing. The box commands the antenna to do a quick check on each RF channel, looking for any indication of a DTV signal. If one is found, it tries various combinations of the 16 antenna directions, band filtering and preamp gains, until it gets the best signal quality. It then "learns" this info, and goes to the next RF channel.

I'm curious to know what the final products will look like, and what they will cost. And, I'm anxious to know what the "qualifications" will be for households that get these.

Also, due to concerns about MATV systems, I wonder if they should be made capable of "Clear QAM" reception and CATV channelization, since many MATV systems may not be capable of all the UHF channels. That's all covered in a separate thread.

Finally, I wonder if the "coupons" should be made available for some discount on an antenna as well. Two boxes won't help you, if you can't get a signal....maybe one of the two chits could be used toward a SmartAntenna, or a Silver Sensor.

That sounds promissing, especially the SmartAntenna bit.

The two prototype boxes are pretty slick (I have both for evaluation).
Folks, note the key word here. They are prototype boxes. The final versions will be based on a key principle: How cheap can they be built?

Since the prices of these things will be low, the search will be on to maximize profit margins. Sure, the small size of the LG is a plus, but if the manufacturers use larger, cheaper motherboards, they can reduce their costs. Expect an external AC adapter/power block, which further reduces costs. The fifth-gen decoder chip, if there is one in a certain unit, will make the SmartAntenna system pointless 97% of the time, and therefore too expensive to employ on a mass scale. Besides, with their Spartan standards of eligibility for the boxes, would the NTIA allow it? Will a fifth-gen decoder chip, compared to a third or fourth-gen chip, not be Spartan enough for the NTIA? I'd like to see a coaxial or optical 5.1 output in these things, as 5.1 audio can really enhance a TV show, but it looks like that won't make it into the NTIA standards, unfortunately.

There will be competition, that much is certain. RCA and LG have all but officially entered the coupon race, and Samsung has expressed its own intentions to join. This competition, along with the coupon program, will artificially limit the MSRP of all the boxes to $40. It won't be cheaper because the coupon system's structure makes lowering the price practically pointless for those in the market to buy one (not to mention the effect on profit margins), and prices won't be higher than $40, because each company will figure that if the other companies can get their boxes out for $40 and they don't, the public will get one of the other boxes.

Since the features between each of the boxes will be so similar, the factors between the two will probably come down to personal convenience. How good is the tuner against multipath, and how sensitive is it? How quick are startup and channel change times? How easy is it to operate the remote, and the menu system? Will AFD and/or zoom-related features be properly implemented? Finally, how visually stimulating is the remote and especially the unit?

Expect these units, even their boxes that contain them, to be designed with as much tasteful visual pizazz as possible. Samsung will probably use their DTB-H260F as their design benchmark, and if I were making a coupon box, I'd use the Sammy as a size benchmark. It should be small enough to fit on top of a VCR, where I suspect most of the people in the market for these things will put the units, but not too small that the cost to make it is increased over what it could be. I wouldn't care if the unit was widened somewhat, especially if sleekness could be improved without increasing the manufacturing cost. Keeping the unit at or thinner than two DVD cases should help with visual appeal. The Samsung H260F is about that thickness.
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A little side note on Samsung. It has expressed its intention to release their own coupon box this year. Meanwhile, the coupon program should start sometime next year. Will they introduce the product for somewhere in the $80 range, then lower the price as the coupon program gets underway? Will they take a two-pronged approach, with one box that works under the coupon program, and sell another, more expensive unit for people not eligible for coupons (richer people and/or those with cable/satellite), that adds a 5.1 output, some software support for stuff like PIP and QAM, and perhaps the SmartAntenna equipment? Hmmm....

Pure speculation: Perhaps Samsung will use the H260F's chassis on the coupon box to reduce manufacturing costs.
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I wonder if they should be made capable of "Clear QAM" reception and CATV channelization, since many MATV systems may not be capable of all the UHF channels. ... I wonder if the "coupons" should be made available for some discount on an antenna as well.
I suspect that the target market for the coupon boxes are people who already have an antenna-only hookup. That means no QAM tuner, or antenna discounts.

My concerns on the QAM thing.....

Many elderly and fixed-income, or handicapped, live in buildings that are served by MATV systems (unless someone is footing the bill for Cable or satellite for them). Many of these systems may be old, 300 MHz systems, which won't carry UHF, so they won't work with most of the DTV channels in most markets.

The solutions would be:
1. Upgrade all the antenna, amplification, and distribution in the building(s) to pass 50-800 MHz. This could get expensive in a large, existing building. And, unless the channels are all coming from the same direction, they still may need channel processors, so you might need $50-75K worth of equipment in a major market. Figure about one-third of that for rewiring.

2. Convert all the DTV channels to QAM, then put them back in to the system on the 38 or so channels that are below 300 MHz. That eliminates having to rewire, but costs $2K per channel. But, this requires Digital-Cable Ready sets. And, you still need to keep the analogs in there, too, for the non-digital sets. And, the subsidized boxes won't do QAM, so they are useless in this system.

3. Buy basic Cable analog service for the building (bulk account), and let the Cable guy rewire it all. Old sets still work, new sets with QAM get the few local HDs that are in the clear. Then, when Cable goes all-digital, everyone rents a box from the Cable company. And, the government keeps the unused ATSC-only converters on a shelf somewhere until they go to a landfill.

4. Let people hang their own antennas on the (tower-facing) sides of the building. Maybe run cables around the window sills or balconies on each floor for the other tenants. If he Smartantenna has 4 separate outputs, this might work for a lot of people. It's much easier if a single antenna can be used, with a common transmitter site. You could have a couple of UHF antennas on each floor's outer wall. Don't know how much of this would really meet code, though.....sort of like the sat dishes, I guess.

3.

That seems to be the consensus. Excuse me while I go buy some Comcast stock.

That seems to be the consensus. Excuse me while I go buy some Comcast stock.
I don't see cable cos making more money off the transition. FIOS has yet to make any money even though it has arguably the best lineup/PQ. The only extra money cable cos might make is from revenues previously lost to stolen service (because they'll shutdown analog and encrypt everything above basic) or wholesale shift in people's attitudes towards VOIP (have people sign up for the "triple play").

I figure that many people with OTA analog TVs will just switch to Basic Cable analog service (as long as Cable continues to provide an analog service, that is).

And, with many MATV systems needing expensive upgrades to get DTV, most of them will switch to bulk-account Basic Cable, or will simply let their existing system die, and wait for tenants to subscribe on their own (the infamous "blame the local broadcaster" syndrome).

After the OTAs finish the "digital transition", who knows how long Cable will continue with NTSC analog service.

Congress authorized a no frills converter for analog TV sets and no one seems to even know what that means.

Isn't congress authorizing that the converters must also include cofdm receivers?
:rolleyes: