This poll is to help me (and maybe anybody else) to decide between Antennas Direct's 91XG UHF yagi and Channel Master's CM4228 8-bay antenna.

I've broken the poll into four different votes so folks that have and haven't used the antenna can vote....some folks voting from "hands-on", while other's might want to vote on "technicals" or "reviews".

Thanks for the help!

Vote away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Ed

This should have been posted to the HDTV Hardware reception forum! You might get more responses there. Can one of the moderators move this please.

Doesn't really matter who's using what, it only depends on what works for your particular situation. I'm going to guess you'll find more people using the 4228 since it's cheaper and available from more places and is a solid long range UHF antenna. I have one myself.

I second Matt across the board. In addition to being more expensive, the 91XG's 8 ft. length is problematical for attics with trusses.

For outdoor use, on the other hand, the 91XG has physical advantages because it's lighter and doesn't seem to catch the wind as much as the sail-like 4228. Those are especially significant if you want to combine it with a separate VHF antenna as I plan to do.

it only depends on what works for your particular situation.

Why would I choose a 91xg style antenna over a cm4228?

If you
-suspect multipath
-are surrounded by trees and/or if your signal jumps up and down during wind gusts
-need to aim at an angle over a ridge
-need an antenna with more directivity and front to back ratio
-plan to stack more than one antenna
-if your area is susceptable to winds or windloading is a concern

the 91 xg would be an alternative.

if you suspect multipath in the attic space and can not fit the 91 xg, try the 43xg. If you purchased the 91 xg and it is too big, remove the front section and it becomes the 43xg...which is a good performer too.

For outdoor use, on the other hand, the 91XG has physical advantages because it's lighter and doesn't seem to catch the wind as much as the sail-like 4228. Those are especially significant if you want to combine it with a separate VHF antenna as I plan to do.

I have a 4228 and haven't had any trouble with this "sail" effect you speak of. OTOH, it seems like a longer boomed antenna would impart much more torsional stress on the mast in high wind conditions. ;)

you folks love your cm4228's and you should. it is a great uhf antenna but not perfect for all conditions.

In the grand scheme of things with countless undetermined variables and situations, the cm4228 does not work the best for all of them and at the same time neither does the 91xg.

If I were to decide between the 2 antennas I would only consider the users set of conditions and circumstances and not any one elses or your own since the variables are not the same for everyone.

Why would someone choose a 91xg style antenna over a cm4228?

If you
-suspect multipath
-are surrounded by trees and/or if your signal jumps up and down during wind gusts
-need to aim at an angle over a ridge
-need an antenna with more directivity and front to back ratio
-plan to stack more than one antenna
-if your area is susceptable to winds or windloading is a concern

the 91 xg would be an alternative.

I didn't vote, because I have both. And they both perform nearly the same.

While the XG91 is lighter (5lbs compared to 15lbs), it's construction isn't as solid as the CM4228. Small tree branches have knocked off a couple of directors (deflectors?). The CM4228 can take a beating.

The XG91 is a little more directional than the CM4228, so take that into account for your needs, one way or another.

I my case, I expect the 91XG's directionality will be a plus because I do have problems in windy weather with distant stations because of trees. Also, some digital stations have co-channel interference from analog stations in opposite directions, so I can use a high front/back ratio. This problem will disappear in two years, of course.

I have read mixed feelings on build quality for the 91xg. The build quality after you actually build the antenna yourself piece by piece :) . but once built I was surprised how well it worked.

I remember my first reaction when I received the 91xg and removed all the pieces from the box. It was like "you got to be friggin kidding me". see picture.

For years I was used to rather large boxes with more substantial antennas inside.

The current cm4228 is not much different than the first one I installed back in the 60's. The original had a continuous screen if I recall. The screens on the current model need to be properly alligned out of box. It is also a good idea to attach the two screens with nylon ties or wire.

The cm 4228 bow ties still have the score lines where you can trim the bowtie to improve performance at the higher channels...but degrade performance at the lower channels. I always left this as is.

good luck with your decision. both antennas work great.

If you puchase the 91xg, make sure the arrow on the elements point to the front of the antenna during assembly.

Looks like a bit more assembly work than my current Radio Shack VHF/UHF combo! With that one, I think I just needed to swing out the VHF elements to the snap-in stops on their mounts, bolt the corner-reflector arms onto the UHF Yagi end, and attach the yoke or whatever it is that runs parallel to the boom.

It shouldn't be a problem, just so I allow enough time for assembly before putting it up.

The CM-4228 is a good performer, especially considering price as compared to the 91XG.
The 91XG appears to be nothing more than some imported parts from Funke.

Thanks everybody for your input so far. I understand there is no "magic bullet" antenna for all circumstances. I won't yet go into some of my thoughts because the poll has yet to be completed and my thoughts might "taint" the voter pool. ;)

Ed

I use a 91XG and can receive digital from 80 miles regularly...I wish I had a 4228 to compare it to.

I use a 91XG and can receive digital from 80 miles regularly...
In order solely to keep this thread balanced and with no intentions to "taint" one way or the other, I use an attic 4228 and, with high elevation, greatly surpass Jesse's distance 24/7 solid.

Bill,
Analog or digital? On analog I too can go past 80 miles. If digital, you are saying that you can greatly surpass 80 miles?? Can anyone else receive a digital signal way past 80 miles with a 4228 on a daily basis?

I have the 91XG attached to a CM-7777 preamplifier. I live about 50 miles from the antenna farm. I have the 91XG on a tripod in an unused bedroom pointed out a window on the second floor. I live in a small to moderate sized city with other two story houses around but none directly in the path of the antenna.

I also have taken it out to a friends house outside of town about 10 miles further away from the towers. Just holding it outside his house pointed correctly (with the preamp), he received everything in UHF band with just a little breakup when I wasn't quite holding it still.

The only issue I've had with my setup is my cat playing in the room misaligning the antenna. If she moves it about 10 degrees, I lose one of the weaker stations completely and have dropouts on all the rest.

If I wasn't happy with it, I would have tried the CM-4228. Since I am happy with it (and the cat), I have not tried the CM-4228.

guys...

generally antennas are best tested at an antenna range and/or with computer simulations. this was harshly brought to my attention years ago.

there are just too many variables out in the field at the users location.

signal can change on the fly while testing, aim and position need to be exactly the same, atmospheric ducting, channels involved, geography, terrain, mounting conditions, analog vs digital, drama from the user, inside/ outside, exagerating to make it look good, etc.

Analog or digital? On analog I too can go past 80 miles. If digital, you are saying that you can greatly surpass 80 miles?? Can anyone else receive a digital signal way past 80 miles with a 4228 on a daily basis?

see....thats what I mean.

its not how good that it works but more your conditions and what is best for those.

the 91 xg would be more of an alternative -vs- the cm4228. just like the db8 is an alternative. you guys are too hung up on hdprimer and your own installation and circumstances. in the real world under someone elses set of variables, it may not turn out that way.

just like with preamps and the cm7777. there are alternatives there too.


If you
-suspect multipath
-are surrounded by trees and/or if your signal jumps up and down during wind gusts
-need to aim at an angle over a ridge
-need an antenna with more directivity and front to back ratio
-plan to stack more than one antenna
-if your area is susceptable to winds or windloading is a concern

then the 91 xg would be an alternative.

I ask again: "Can anyone else receive a digital signal way past 80 miles with a 4228 (in attic or on tower) on a daily basis?" I don't believe it so I'm calling BS bingo on that post. I'm not hung up on my installation...I'm hoping that the 4228 really does work that much better cause if it does then I'm buying one.

The current cm4228 is not much different than the first one I installed back in the 60's. The original had a continuous screen if I recall. The screens on the current model need to be properly alligned out of box. It is also a good idea to attach the two screens with nylon ties.

Rick, how would one go aligning the screens? Mine were already attached to the antenna and overlap in the middle. Is it just a matter of lining up the grids and wire tying it together?

allign the screens by hand till they just touch from top to bottom. I usually lie the antenna on the gound and just tug, pull apart, or whatever it takes.

then use either wire or nylon ties to bind the screens tightly together.

not sure how this affects reception but keeps the system/screen from flopping about and more stable.

Bill,
Analog or digital? On analog I too can go past 80 miles. If digital, you are saying that you can greatly surpass 80 miles?? Can anyone else receive a digital signal way past 80 miles with a 4228 on a daily basis?
Both. From the attic with my house nearly 1800 ft. ASL, my 4228 pulls in solid 24/7 the 4 digital majors from DC at 125 miles and 2 and sometimes 3 and 4 digital majors from Richmond, VA at about 95 miles. Analog I'm the same, but only for hi-VHF and above. And I believe a search will confirm that other AVS members even exceed me with their 4228's -- Florida IIRC and other states.

you guys are too hung up on hdprimer and your own installation and circumstances.
Rick is exactly right and shame on me if I convey the impression others can do what I do. As they say, OTA reception is an enigma wrapped in a mystery surrounded by a conundrum. My terrific elevation probably excludes me from comparison to most members and if I've ever given the impression otherwise these past 4+ years, I'm plain stupid.

My point here, trying to reinforce Rick, is different things work for different locations and trail and error is a great rule to follow. This forum allows us to post our unique as well as humdrum experiences and woe betide me if I belittle other posters in any manner, shape, or form.

P.S. Jesse is not alone in his skepticism. Over the years, I've been periodically bruised a little here and so lay low a while. But I'm absolutely addicted to HD -- particularly football -- and this forum besides my religion; and I'll not ever fully understand my OTA reception, given the distance and those looming Blue Ridge Mountains. :)

I ask again: "Can anyone else receive a digital signal way past 80 miles with a 4228 (in attic or on tower) on a daily basis?" I don't believe it so I'm calling BS bingo on that post. I'm not hung up on my installation...I'm hoping that the 4228 really does work that much better cause if it does then I'm buying one.

I have a 4228 w/CM 7777 indoor mount on 2nd floor and lock DT station 72 miles away . I do have a homemade DB-2 that also lock DT station72 miles away, but my terrian is mostly flat. I will be moving next month and will be 10+ miles further out. I will have 4228 mounted in the attic there. When I have it up and running I will post it here if still open.

I ask again: "Can anyone else receive a digital signal way past 80 miles with a 4228 (in attic or on tower) on a daily basis?" I don't believe it so I'm calling BS bingo on that post. I'm not hung up on my installation...I'm hoping that the 4228 really does work that much better cause if it does then I'm buying one.

jesse you are not going to know till you try one.

try it...someone else's results may not be what yours are.

do not be surprised if some channels come in better and some worse.

and it can change from day to day.

it just is not that cut and dry or black or white. it is definately not a demeaning situation...or which antenna is better.

I purchased the cm4228 to try again as soon as this past fall, because I thought there was something better than what I had. ended up sticking with the 91xg...for now :)

the 91xg worked better the day I compared antennas. It can be the opposite tomorrow...they are that close. it would be a different story if you were comparing a cm3016 or a radio shack u 75r.

Bill,
Analog or digital? On analog I too can go past 80 miles. If digital, you are saying that you can greatly surpass 80 miles?? Can anyone else receive a digital signal way past 80 miles with a 4228 on a daily basis?

I had a CM-4228 and received Orlando stations at approximately 83 miles distance
24/7 with breakups only occuring during the day. I must add that i have also had
similar results with the Televes Dat-75, Winegard HD-9095 and PR-9032, Blake JBX21WB and the Triax Unix 100.

I receive digital stations 107 miles away with a cm-4221 in the attic with no preamp. The distance is not a problem if there are no obstructions inbetween and the antenna heights clear the curvature of the earth.
Here is the elevation profile from KCBS-DT which has an antenna at over 6500 feet.

ran into a neat gadget ...hdtv tuner with signal meter in db. anyone use one of these.

The OnAir GT from AutumnWave leads the mobile HDTV industry and allows consumers to receive Digital and Analog television broadcasts on-the-go.

The OnAir GT, together with its included software, allows consumers to watch and record television anywhere a useable 'over-the-air' or cable signal exists.

Miniature in size, the GT model fits easily in a laptop case and is USB-powered, requiring no external power supply. It incorporates the latest fifth-generation LG Electronics ATSC / NTSC / QAM (unencrypted) tuner and the nVidia PureVideo Decoder. Imagine HDTV on-the-go!


add to a laptop or desktop. there is your signal meter. 5th generation ntsc/atsc/qam. the brand I use did not have a signal meter in the software.

http://www.autumnwave.com/content/view/30/117/

user manual

http://www.autumnwave.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_details/gid,33/

ran into a neat gadget ...hdtv tuner with signal meter in db. anyone use one of these.

The OnAir GT from AutumnWave leads the mobile HDTV industry and allows consumers to receive Digital and Analog television broadcasts on-the-go.

The OnAir GT, together with its included software, allows consumers to watch and record television anywhere a useable 'over-the-air' or cable signal exists.

Miniature in size, the GT model fits easily in a laptop case and is USB-powered, requiring no external power supply. It incorporates the latest fifth-generation LG Electronics ATSC / NTSC / QAM (unencrypted) tuner and the nVidia PureVideo Decoder. Imagine HDTV on-the-go!


add to a laptop or desktop. there is your signal meter. 5th generation ntsc/atsc/qam. the brand I use did not have a signal meter in the software.

http://www.autumnwave.com/content/view/30/117/

user manual

http://www.autumnwave.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_details/gid,33/

I've had the OnAir GT for about a year. Great tuner! Love the ability to see the SNR in db's. Used that to place my antennas.

See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589

Just so I don't go chasing a rabbit down the wrong trail I've got a question about the output we get at www.antennaweb.org:

* yellow - uhf WSFA-DT 12.1 NBC MONTGOMERY AL 36° 20.1 14
* yellow - uhf WDFX-DT 33.1 FOX OZARK AL 132° 56.7 33
* yellow - uhf WBIH-DT 29 IND SELMA AL 335° 62.7 29
* yellow - uhf WAIQ-DT 26.1 PBS MONTGOMERY AL 7° 45.0 27
* yellow - uhf WAKA-DT 8.1 CBS SELMA AL 321° 38.0 55
* green - vhf WDIQ-DT 2.1 PBS DOZIER AL 192° 12.6 11
* lt green - uhf WBMM-DT 22 CW TUSKEGEE AL Now Available 48° 33.4 22
* red - uhf WRJM-DT 48 MNT TROY AL FCC Ext 48° 32.7 48
* red - uhf WNCF-DT 32.1 ABC MONTGOMERY AL 9° 44.2 51
* red - uhf WTVY-DT 4.1 CBS DOTHAN AL 149° 66.8 36
* red - uhf WGIQ-DT 43.1 PBS LOUISVILLE AL 93° 54.1 44
* blue - uhf WCOV-DT 20.1 FOX MONTGOMERY AL 7° 41.8 16
* violet - uhf WEAR-DT 3.1 ABC PENSACOLA FL 227° 108.7 17

Are the frequency assignments listed in the results the actual "final resting places" where the stations will be located?

Looking at my list of stations it appears I really don't need a VHF antenna...the only station that will stay in the VHF band will be in the high-end of the band and is the closest station to me.

Ed

did a quick look and below are changing. there may be more

* green - vhf WDIQ-DT 2.1 PBS DOZIER AL 192° 12.6 11 back to ch2
* yellow - uhf WAKA-DT 8.1 CBS SELMA AL 321° 38.0 55 to ch 42

review the pdf. lists final assignments for 99.9% of the stations.

did a quick look and below are changing. there may be more

* green - vhf WDIQ-DT 2.1 PBS DOZIER AL 192° 12.6 11 back to ch2
* yellow - uhf WAKA-DT 8.1 CBS SELMA AL 321° 38.0 55 to ch 42

review the pdf. lists final assignments for 99.9% of the stations.
Thanks Rick. Looks like I'm good to go with UHF-only.

Channel 2 is a non-issue for me as it is PBS and 26.1 out of Montgmoery is, also. Channel 26.1 is also in the same direction as the bulk of the stations I'm stalking whereas Channel 2 is on the backside of the antenna.

Thanks again,
Ed

P.S. Looks like I'll be putting up my new UHF antenna today...it's a &i@!L2*^%!....johnbrown line-noise!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

The net gain comparison at hdtvprimer shows the 4228 with higher gain on channels below channel 50. The 91XG has higher net gain above channel 50 but channels 52 to 69 will be going away in 2009.

Well, the poll has ended and it looks like a washout...except for one more vote for the 91XG by someone who liked the specs. Got some good discussion going though!

Well, today was a wreck. :(

I was excited about trying the CM4228 that I picked up. Early this afternoon I managed to get it in the air. Raising my antenna is a bit of a chore as I've got an old stand-alone mast with three quywires...I lower it by leaning the antenna into two of the wires and easing the base backwareds...a real workout for me.

Anyhow, I tried the CM4228 with and without the CM7777...without the pre-amp I got no signal at all, zilch. Checking reception after I put the CM7777 inline it seemed to actually have a narrower beam of reception than the Winegard 7082 had.

Tinkered with it a bit and just didn't like the way it was working. The coax cable was probably 7-8 years old and upon inspecting it found a nicked place showing shielding...I started to tape over it but decided to replace it with a roll of Phillips "quad shield" coax, which of course involves a nice crawl under the house. Got the new coax "pulled" and while I was at it pulled a couple of speaker wires under the floor. Crawled back out from under the house and hooked things up in the house.

The results? I can only pick up WSFA and it's two sub-channels where I was picking up twenty stations/substations earlier today and...I'm dog tired. I havent' a clue as to what happened...everything looks good.

If I get time tomorrow I'll drop the antenna and see if there's an obvious problem with a connection or something. The only thing I've changed has been the main coax cable (100', same as before) and I had to build a slightly longer patch cable to go between the 4228 and the 7777.

What a day. :(
Ed

Update:

I pulled the antenna down yesterday and checked all of the connections. The only one that looked questionable was the end of the Phillips quad-shield cable. Seems the dielectic around the center pin wasn't cleaned up very well during it's removal. There was a fine film of plastic going up almost half the length of the center pin. I cleaned this up.

Powering everything up it looks like my reception has improved from the single station to several. The channels seem to be coming in solidly...a couple are coming from acute angles off the front, I'm picking up channel 2 (PBS) from the backside, and channel 4 (CBS-Dothan) off the back of the right-hand side. I even added channel 48 (WFBD-Destin, FL....not WRJM in Troy) which more or less comes in on the far righthand side of the back of the antenna. But, I'm still missing 26 (PBS) and 45 (TBN) which I was getting earlier, are 10 miles closer than 48, and are actually the stations that should be directly in front of the antenna. ???? Weird how they won't come in but 48 slips in from the backside.

Anyhow, reception is better than it was Saturday evening, I won't make a judgement call on the antenna yet as I really haven't been able to play around much with adjusting it's bearing very much. We'll see...

Ed

My 4228 experience was the opposite of Ed's. With the 7777 I couldn't get zilch, but without it reception was barely so-so. So I put a CM 3044 dist. amp near the antenna and, voila, the rest is history as they say. But as always, YMMV!!

the cm7777 is a rather high gain amp.

CM7777 UHF/VHF UHF: 26db gain, 2.0 db noise; VHF 23 db gain, 2.8 db noise

generally when you achieve poor results with the cm7777 or any other high gain amp, the gain is too high for your conditions. keep in mind that the cm4228 has some gain on vhf which contributes to the overloading issues.

I tried several amps at my home yesterday and wanted to give the cm7777 just another try.

tried the following
cm7777
ap8700
cm 7778
hdp269
channel plus 500a distribution amp.

I am 19 miles from towers with hd8200p for vhf and 91 xg for uhf.

the cm7777 26 db, cm 7778 19 db, ap 8700 19 db were not useable because of overload, co channel interference, modulation issues . the channel plus caused issues. the hdp269 was the best of the bunch but still caused issues on the low power uhf channels.

The best scenario was the hdp269 amplifying uhf and passing vhf and not installed at the antenna but at the grounding block in order to take some of the edge off the overload. I split the signal over a dozen times around the home and still had problems.

I do not understand how most folks can use the cm7777 where they do. The sad thing is most users do not even realize they have any issues with the high gain amps. I have found that signal level as measured from the hd tuners actually goes down when aimed at the towers and goes up as you aim away when overload is present. this can really throw off your bearings when trying to peak signal off the signal meters found on most tuners.

The true test is measuring with proper instrumentation.

example...ch 54 digital
without amp 86
with cm7777 68...from the overload
with hdp269 86

ch 14 low power analog
cm7777 strong co channel and intermod interference from vhf. When I disconnected the vhf antenna, the interference actually dissappeared.

for those who want to try the 91xg, but don't want to spend as much.
try the jaycar LT3182 jaycarelectronics $40. U.S. and shipping was only a little over $7. to illinois. it's almost identical to the 91xg , the only difference is the driven element. the jaycar has a larger x type instead of the loop. same amount of elements per section.

I did add some glue to the elements and plastic clips. if I could find a local seller of the 4228 I would try it. another one I might try is the AntennaCraft Super G 1483
8 bay.

Well, one thing I'm certain of...I've gotta figure out a different mast arrangement so that I can make changes, etc, more easily with the antenna. I'm using an old (very old) rusty mast (may have been a small antenna mast on the Titanic) that is basically locked in it's extended position at about 20'. It is supported by three guy wires attached to t-posts...and I basically walk it up and walk it down<groan>.

We had a ~40' tower that was installed at the house when we moved in. I dropped it about a year ago as one of the legs had completely rusted out and I figured a "controlled fall" was better than an uncontrolled one :eek: ...it had a massive, circa 1965 antenna mounted on top of it. I had in the past used that antenna some and hanging on the top of that tower was, well, exciting (and somewhat stupid towards the end of it's use. :o ). I acquired a few other sections of tower a while back and I may re-install this tower...just don't know if I want to go to the trouble of pouring the concrete or not and I seriously doubt I'll go back up 40'. I'll probably end up going with a CM1630 or 1620 telescoping mast if I can find one.

Rick, I do have a Channel Master 9521A rotor that I want to install, but I'd rather have the mast situation taken care of first. I'm curious as to how this rotor will handle the CM4228. I feel pretty sure I need to get an alignment bearing to support the antenna...good idea?

Is there a meter that doesn't cost an arm and a leg that can be used to check signal quality/strength at the antenna? My Samsung DTB-H260F receiver has it's signal meter which I think shows a combination of quality and power.

One last thing, yagis and bow-tie antennas are spoken of and used predominately for OTA reception of televsion signals. Does anyone use quads for tv? Back when I was an active ham it seemed the quad had an edge on the others...biggest issue was being bulky. With the frequencies we're working at the size of a quad woulnd't be very big. Best antenna I ever had was a full-wave loop on 40 meters...talked to west/northwest coast, east coast, and SA running qrp and cw at 1.5w. The quad is a glorified hybrid loop/yagi. Maybe I'm thinking to hard. :)

Ed

for those who want to try the 91xg, but don't want to spend as much.
try the jaycar LT3182 jaycarelectronics $40. U.S. and shipping was only a little over $7. to illinois. it's almost identical to the 91xg , the only difference is the driven element. the jaycar has a larger x type instead of the loop. same amount of elements per section.

I did add some glue to the elements and plastic clips. if I could find a local seller of the 4228 I would try it. another one I might try is the AntennaCraft Super G 1483
8 bay.

Looks like the newb has found a bargain.The Highband/UHF looks interesting too.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=LT3182&CATID=31&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=478

Did you order online,or use the USA 800 number? Who was the shipper and where was it shipped from? Freight sounds too cheap.

Thanks,
Greg B

Rick, I do have a Channel Master 9521A rotor that I want to install, but I'd rather have the mast situation taken care of first. I'm curious as to how this rotor will handle the CM4228. I feel pretty sure I need to get an alignment bearing to support the antenna...good idea?

the cm9521A will work fine. I attached a user drawing of his install to give you an example. I do not use guys but emt conduit from just below the rotor to the roof... much sturdier and something to hold on to. My setup is very stable. see picture. my mast is mounted to the side of the home.

Is there a meter that doesn't cost an arm and a leg that can be used to check signal quality/strength at the antenna? My Samsung DTB-H260F receiver has it's signal meter which I think shows a combination of quality and power.

digital signal meters are rather expensive. a user here had good luck with this . 5th generation chip with s/n readout. I may be purchasing one shortly.

http://www.autumnwave.com/content/view/30/117

http://www.autumnwave.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_details/gid,33/

Looks like the newb has found a bargain.The Highband/UHF looks interesting too.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=LT3182&CATID=31&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=478

Did you order online,or use the USA 800 number?It would appear you can do it online (http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=LT3182&CATID=31&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=478) from the US site. For $47.50 delivered, I've got to try one of those. :cool:

But I do wonder where it ships from, how long it takes.

Hopefull angler7 will report back.

Intheswamp,
If you or anyone wants a good quality telescoping mast then look here...I have the 50' one and it is built well:


http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=341&subgroupId=70&showFilterItems=true&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1&search=false&page=2

I ordered it by phone 1-800-784-0263 on february 15nth at about 10:30 pm cst (2/16 3:30 pm Aus) and it was shipped airmail from Australia, the mailman delivered it yesterday. the 26th. $47.50 was the total cost.
depending on the weather I may get it on top of the tower tomorrow. I connected the 1st third of it ,without the reflector , to my atsc card and picked up all the local stations (90% or better). from within my computer room. most of the transmitters are about 6 miles away or so.
I'll be using it more for dx , I used to have good luck picking up stations out of Kansas and Nebraska during "tropo" openings with a radioshack (antennacraft) deep fringe yagi.about a 9 foot long boom. they stopped selling those a while back.

I have used both of these antennas and had good luck with each one. However the 91XG is the winner in my particular application. I have a lot of multipath, and the 91xg seems to be more directional and helps more with my particular reception problems.

Originally I did not have a dedicated VHF antenna so using the 4228 for VHF seemed to be an advantage. However, I was never really happy with the marginal VHF reception and have now added a real VHF antenna. With a dedicated VHF antenna I now prefer the 91XG. But of course TV reception is a very location specific issue so your experience may be quite different.

I ordered it by phone 1-800-784-0263 on february 15nth at about 10:30 pm cst (2/16 3:30 pm Aus) and it was shipped airmail from Australia, the mailman delivered it yesterday. the 26th. $47.50 was the total cost.
depending on the weather I may get it on top of the tower tomorrow. I connected the 1st third of it ,without the reflector , to my atsc card and picked up all the local stations (90% or better). from within my computer room. most of the transmitters are about 6 miles away or so.
I'll be using it more for dx , I used to have good luck picking up stations out of Kansas and Nebraska during "tropo" openings with a radioshack (antennacraft) deep fringe yagi.about a 9 foot long boom. they stopped selling those a while back.Thanks. Keep us updated. Perhaps (after a few more posts) you can show us close-ups of the LT3182? :)

What kind of PCB balun is on the Jaycar? I take it that you don't have experience with a 91XG or the Funke DC.4591 but the LT3182 (http://internal.physics.uwa.edu.au/~agm/jaycar.jpg) would appear to be almost functionally identical to the (21/69) Funke.

I looked at a close-up of the 91xg since last post and a couple differences I noticed were , the lt3182 has silver colored elements and a gold reflector. the 91xg has gold elements and black reflector.
if you put /2lwgan after tiny dot comm ( it wouldn't let me put the "you are L" after tiny and I had to use 2 m's on comm)there is a pic of the lt3182 on a camera tripod
although it looks like it's upside down. if you read the online assembly instruction for the 91xg you can use those for the lt3182. and the funke looks similar. I looked at a lot of uhf antennas ,before ordering the jaycar. and picked it because of performance and price. I tried a home made copy of the 4228. but the mxu-59 was working better, even though I repaired it using leftover copper tubing, and wire mesh cloth.

I ordered it by phone 1-800-784-0263 on february 15nth at about 10:30 pm cst (2/16 3:30 pm Aus) and it was shipped airmail from Australia, the mailman delivered it yesterday. the 26th. $47.50 was the total cost.
depending on the weather I may get it on top of the tower tomorrow. I connected the 1st third of it ,without the reflector , to my atsc card and picked up all the local stations (90% or better). from within my computer room. most of the transmitters are about 6 miles away or so.
I'll be using it more for dx , I used to have good luck picking up stations out of Kansas and Nebraska during "tropo" openings with a radioshack (antennacraft) deep fringe yagi.about a 9 foot long boom. they stopped selling those a while back.

Just called the 800 number and ordered the LT3195 Band 3-4-5 antenna.Initially the guy said I may not want to do this as the shipping would be twice the cost of the antenna($75+150),so I said someone here in the States from IL ordered a LT3182 a couple weeks ago and the shipping was only $7.50!

He said "hold on,let me talk to my mgr".Came back and said "that's correct,the shipping for the LT3195 will also be $7.50".How on earth they can do this is beyond me.

Said it would take about 2 weeks for delivery.

What type is the coax connection on the LT3182?

What type is the coax connection on the LT3182?
it uses an f connector.
(Australian overseas airmail has a flat shipping rate, based on weight.)
started to add a website that gives postage rates "auspost" one of these days will be able to.

...if you put /2lwgan after tiny dot comm ( it wouldn't let me put the "you are L" after tiny and I had to use 2 m's on comm)there is a pic of the lt3182 on a camera tripod
although it looks like it's upside down...Moonbounce Jaycar LT3182 (on tripod) (http://internal.physics.uwa.edu.au/~agm/emejaycar.jpg)

Interesting UHF EME DX (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:MCtMQltA_HMJ:www.geocities.com/toddemslie/moonbounce_DXTV.html) project.

What I'm curious about is what would be called the "balun box" between the active elements. Did you open it up... take any pics?

(I suppose I will see soon enough) :)

nice catch.

may purchase one and remove the front section and turn it into a 43xg for an application here. does the antenna have 3 boom sections like the 91xg?

the antenna looks very similar in the picture to the 91 xg. wonder who makes the antenna in china for the different companies?

I went and check the Jaycar website and found out it made by Digimatch http://www.matchmaster.com.au/digimatch.htm all the specs are there and their price as is about the same here but with the currency rate is different so it is cheaper with US dollars.

The best scenario was the hdp269 amplifying uhf and passing vhf and not installed at the antenna but at the grounding block in order to take some of the edge off the overload. I split the signal over a dozen times around the home and still had problems.

I do not understand how most folks can use the cm7777 where they do. The sad thing is most users do not even realize they have any issues with the high gain amps. I have found that signal level as measured from the hd tuners actually goes down when aimed at the towers and goes up as you aim away when overload is present. this can really throw off your bearings when trying to peak signal off the signal meters found on most tuners.


I completely agree that this is an under reported and under recognized problem. I have only one high power local analog station and it's corresponding digital transmitter at 15 miles line-of-site, CH 19 @ 5MW and and CH 18 @ 500KW ERP respectively. All my other transmitters are 55 miles or more away, including FM stations.

I started with a Winegard AP-4800 and it was completely destroyed by CH 18/19. I purchased a CH 19 30dB notch filter from Tin Lee but that still didn't completely fix the problem. Apparently the sum of all the other signals on the air was still to much for it.

I have test equipment to measure gain and although the AP-4800 is spec'd at 28 dB gain, it actually measured 38 dB at channel 20 and 28 dB at channel 60. No wonder it gets overloaded!

I gave up on the AP-4800 and went to other extreme, the HDP-269. Gain measured 14 dB at CH 20 and 11 dB at CH 60. There was no hint of overload at all and no notch filter was required. The problem was that I have a very long cable run and I calculated my system noise figure to be 7.4 dB. Not so good!

I ended up getting a Tin Lee MA-25U-77A UHF only preamp spec'd at 2.5 dB noise figure and 25 dB gain. Measured gain was 25.7 dB at CH 20 and 27.3 dB at CH 60. I ran tests with and without the notch filter. Without the notch filter I could see the weak stations were degraded compared to using the CH 19 notch filter so there was still some overload. My system noise figure calculates to 2.7 dB with the Tin Lee preamp and with the notch filter in line it has allowed me to receive distant stations (over 90 miles) that could not be received at all with the other preamps. There are two UHF digital stations I can now receive 100% at 90 miles that are precisely in line with the 5MW/500KW transmitter pair and the main lobe of their antennas patterns are not pointed at me.

After this experience I suspect that anyone who adds a preamp and experiences worse reception or only marginal improvement is having preamp overload. In my case it only took one pair of local stations to do it.

It will be interesting to see what reception improvement people see the day all the high power analog stations go off the air. :)

Chuck

It will be interesting to see what reception improvement people see the day all the high power analog stations go off the air.

I can not wait till the high power analogs go off the air.

I have a situation where the analog ch 24 or ch 25 digital signal (both the same station) causes intermod interference scattered about the tv band. when the stations go off the air the problem goes away. when the stations come on the air the issue begins.

I use separate vhf and uhf antennas. I found that if I disconnect the vhf antenna the interference lessens. so I amplify uhf only with a hdp269 and pass vhf and then recombine with a cm0549 splitter combiner.

there is an fm tower at 100.9 about a mile away that causes issues. I purchased a notch filter to attenuate the fm, added a band pass filer to filter the vhf and uhf bands further, added a trap for ch 24.

the ch 24 filter did not do a thing. I am guessing that the signal is so strong, signal is ingressing throughout the system and I am unable to suppress it. the hdp overloads alittle. I need some amplification since I split about a dozen times and have a few high channel uhf getting attenuated

have been thinking of other alternatives but having difficulty. I am lucky to have 3 filter companies in town.

I am guessing that the signal is so strong, signal is ingressing throughout the system and I am unable to suppress it. the hdp overloads alittle. I need some amplification since I split about a dozen times and have a few high channel uhf getting attenuated.

I noticed with that my HDP-269 has very little input-output isolation. With the power off strong signals still come through. I believe it's only a one stage amplifier.

There are real life practical limits as to what can be done with these consumer grade preamps we're all using. A wideband premp in a high signal area is almost certain to get overloaded. It really needs a tuneable filter ahead of the preamp but that's impractical for an antenna mounted preamp and would be expensive even if one was available.

If I was in an environment with a number of strong stations where I was trying to receive some weak stations, I'd use a high gain directional outdoor antenna, use some low loss cable (not RG-6) and add a low noise distribution amp in the house with just enough gain to feed the number of TVs I needed.

Most people don't need more than about 100' of downlead. Surplus cable TV hardline is very low loss and can almost eliminate the need for an antenna preamp for average cable runs.

For example, the cable I'm using is Trilogy MC2 .5" semi-air direlectric. It has 1.5 dB loss per 100' at channel 20 and 1.8 dB loss per 100' at channel 60. A quality low gain, low noise distribution amp at the end of a 100' run would be <2 dB worse than locating it at the antenna. I doubt that few people would notice the difference and it might be an improvement if the preamp was suffering from overload.

I had to use this cable in my situation. My house is on the east side of a hill and all TV is to the west, completely blocked. So I located my antenna on a 50' tower at the top of the hill where the western view is much less obstructed. Unfortunately that meant I needed almost 550' of cable to reach my house. RG-6 wan't going to cut it. So I used the hardline plus a short RG-6 jumper at each end. The caluclated cable loss at channel 60 is about 11 dB. A preamp was really necessary for me.

Chuck

I experimented further this morning.

I replaced a 2 way splitter, which divides the setup to long run and short runs, with a 3 way splitter with a terminator on the unused port and for the 3 way split for the short run behind the ht with a 4 way splitter. That took more of the edge off and the best combination so far with the hd269 installed at the grounding block and not at the antenna.

plus I added a rs u75r with another hd269 with a jointenna for ch 56 to my rear. The db2 I had there did not work out...did not handle the mulipath from the trees. see pic.

I tried a few distribution amps but the s/n did not help.

I noticed with that my HDP-269 has very little input-output isolation. With the power off strong signals still come through. I believe it's only a one stage amplifier.

There are real life practical limits as to what can be done with these consumer grade preamps we're all using. A wideband premp in a high signal area is almost certain to get overloaded. It really needs a tuneable filter ahead of the preamp but that's impractical for an antenna mounted preamp and would be expensive even if one was available.

If I was in an environment with a number of strong stations where I was trying to receive some weak stations, I'd use a high gain directional outdoor antenna, use some low loss cable (not RG-6) and add a low noise distribution amp in the house with just enough gain to feed the number of TVs I needed.

Most people don't need more than about 100' of downlead. Surplus cable TV hardline is very low loss and can almost eliminate the need for an antenna preamp for average cable runs.

For example, the cable I'm using is Trilogy MC2 .5" semi-air direlectric. It has 1.5 dB loss per 100' at channel 20 and 1.8 dB loss per 100' at channel 60. A quality low gain, low noise distribution amp at the end of a 100' run would be <2 dB worse than locating it at the antenna. I doubt that few people would notice the difference and it might be an improvement if the preamp was suffering from overload.

I had to use this cable in my situation. My house is on the east side of a hill and all TV is to the west, completely blocked. So I located my antenna on a 50' tower at the top of the hill where the western view is much less obstructed. Unfortunately that meant I needed almost 550' of cable to reach my house. RG-6 wan't going to cut it. So I used the hardline plus a short RG-6 jumper at each end. The caluclated cable loss at channel 60 is about 11 dB. A preamp was really necessary for me.

Chuck

Concerning your long run,someone here posted a wireless solution to a similar situation a few years back.It's a slow day and I've always wanted to try this.Works better than I thought.Here's a pic of the setup using a couple of RS bowties.The received station is 70mi distant and the signal strength is the same on identical receivers,one hooked to the main tower and the other hooked to the bowtie.

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/WirelessDTV/ Changed:12:47 PM on Sunday, March 4, 2007

Signal path:
output from system 4-way splitter>uhf preamp> 1st bowtie> 12ft open distance> 2nd bowtie>uhf preamp> DTV tuner

Probably not a practical application,but in a remote location it could work.

Concerning your long run,someone here posted a wireless solution to a similar situation a few years back.It's a slow day and I've always wanted to try this.Works better than I thought.Here's a pic of the setup using a couple of RS bowties.The received station is 70mi distant and the signal strength is the same on identical receivers,one hooked to the main tower and the other hooked to the bowtie.

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/WirelessDTV/ Changed:12:47 PM on Sunday, March 4, 2007

Signal path:
output from system 4-way splitter>uhf preamp> 1st bowtie> 12ft open distance> 2nd bowtie>uhf preamp> DTV tuner

Probably not a practical application,but in a remote location it could work.

Interesting idea but it's probably illegal, especially if you amplified it enough to cover 500' or more. I would not recommend that anyone set up a system to do this without knowing the legal details from the FCC.

Interesting idea but it's probably illegal, especially if you amplified it enough to cover 500' or more. I would not recommend that anyone set up a system to do this without knowing the legal details from the FCC.

Yea,you're probably right.The black helicopters that kept circling the house finally left after I dismantled everything.Whew!

Here is a short update about my antenna situation.

Last Saturday a hidden video camera probably would have won ten-grand on one of the funniest video shows as I tried to wrestle my apparently "too heavy" antenna to a vertical position. The main mast was only 21' tall and was no problem when I had some light weight yagis on it. But, when I mounted a 4228, pre-amp, Channel Master rotor and about 8' of galvanized pipe...well, it was too much for me to stand up against the guywires by myself. At the end of the day I was completely beaten up (physically) and the antenna was laying horizontal, resting on a sawhorse.

Sunday I decided to try it again. I got smart though and took it down to a single section of mast. With the rotor and galvanized pipe at the top it brought the top of the 4228 to 15 1/2 feet high. Ah well,...better a lower height than a broke neck. :rolleyes:

The results were pretty much what they had been, except I could turn the 4228 toward specific transmitter locations and basically have dropout-free reception on all channels.

My receiver/tuner is the Samsung H260F which so far seems like a decent tuner to me, though I haven't used another digital tuner to compare it to. Re-stating my antenna situation: CM4228, CM7777 pre-amp, top of antenna height is 15.5', mast is resting on the ground supported by three guywires, and I'm using 100' of Phillips RG-6 Quad Shield coax. Elevation at my house is ~425 feet.

Last night (Wednesday) I decided to play with the rotor a bit. What I did with the rotor and tuner was simply to turn the antenna in a direction and do an autoscan for available channels. Eventually I had the antenna turned more or less south...a barren realm for me. Here, though, are the results I came up with (signal "strength" per the Samsung tuner noted by the "bars":

WEAR-DT 3.1 ABC PENSACOLA FL 227° 108.6 17 ---8bars 7:30am
WALA-DT 10.1 FOX MOBILE AL 232° 111.7 9 -----3-4bars 7:30am
WKRG-DT 5.1 CBS MOBILE AL 233° 113.3 27 ---4-5bars 7:30am
WPMI-DT 15.1 NBC MOBILE AL 226° 107.2 47 ---5bars 7:30am

This one doesn't show up on www.antennaweb.org, but I'm receiving it, too:
WMBB 13.1 ABC Panama City, Florida ----3-4bars

Needless to say I was/am tickled with snagging the elusive ABC and FOX channels...un-receivable by me out of Ozark(56 miles) and Montgomery(44 miles).

The distance that these stations are transmitting from and the fact that I'm receiving them is confusing me, though. I mean, the top of my antenna is only 15.5' off the ground and 100 miles seems like *quiet* a reach! :eek:

We are having some BEAUTIFUL WEATHER right now...blue skies, crisp days, 40's at night...low 70's during the day, etc.,....I mean BEAUTIFUL!!! I'm not sure the weather is contributing to some kind of reception quirk that is getting me these stations or what. The only problem is that Pensacola/Mobile are in completely opposite directions from the direction of what I really term my "local" stations. I've got one of the two primary "local" stations that is still being received off the back of the antenna so I can probably live with this quiet nicely and not have to wear the bearings out in the rotor.

Anyhow, anybody got any thoughts about this great reception I'm getting? It's got me intrigued...but will it last?

Ed

Here's my 91XG setup. Have not had a problem with wind yet and the wind does blow here. As you can see from the photos we had two serious ice storms this winter and the 91XG weathered them well. What it did not handle was the tree branches laden with ice leaning over from 15-20 feet away and damaging it. I doubt if a 4228 would have escaped unscathed either. It will be easy to fix as Antennas Direct has been generous in sending out free replacement elements plus the elements are easy to replace. Mother nature took care of the branch during the second ice storm. What's surprising is how well it still works despite some bent and broken elements. In fact in the second ice picture there was some good tropo and I was getting clean signals from Omaha almost 170 miles away. The RG11 was strong enough to hold up despite the ice.

I'm using a 9521A plus the TB-105 support bearing to help stabilize the mast.

By the way I did not vote in the poll .

Here's one more pic of the ice damage to the tree and 91XG.

Here's one more pic of the ice damage to the tree and 91XG.

BK,
Now that's some serious ice!

I only got a ¼" on the ants here with some fairly stiff wind gusts.The long elements on the lowbander need to be staightened out,but that's it.

When ya gonna put the psp1922 in the air?

When ya gonna put the psp1922 in the air?

I may wait until the switchover in Feb/09 or when at least one of the stations I'm getting now goes back to broadcasting on VHF. Right now everything I want is on UHF so no reason to subject it to these "elements" until I have to.

cliip...
My receiver/tuner is the Samsung H260F which so far seems like a decent tuner to me, though I haven't used another digital tuner to compare it to. Re-stating my antenna situation: CM4228, CM7777 pre-amp, top of antenna height is 15.5', mast is resting on the ground supported by three guywires, and I'm using 100' of Phillips RG-6 Quad Shield coax. Elevation at my house is ~425 feet.

Last night (Wednesday) I decided to play with the rotor a bit. What I did with the rotor and tuner was simply to turn the antenna in a direction and do an autoscan for available channels. Eventually I had the antenna turned more or less south...a barren realm for me. Here, though, are the results I came up with (signal "strength" per the Samsung tuner noted by the "bars":

WEAR-DT 3.1 ABC PENSACOLA FL 227° 108.6 17 ---8bars 7:30am
WALA-DT 10.1 FOX MOBILE AL 232° 111.7 9 -----3-4bars 7:30am
WKRG-DT 5.1 CBS MOBILE AL 233° 113.3 27 ---4-5bars 7:30am
WPMI-DT 15.1 NBC MOBILE AL 226° 107.2 47 ---5bars 7:30am

This one doesn't show up on www.antennaweb.org, but I'm receiving it, too:
WMBB 13.1 ABC Panama City, Florida ----3-4bars

Anyhow, anybody got any thoughts about this great reception I'm getting? It's got me intrigued...but will it last?

Ed
Well, it looks like this exceptional reception was/is due to a case of tropoheric ducting or enhancement. Yesterday afternoon all the stations but WMBB/13.1 down in Panama City, Florida had vanished. I woke up this morning and they're all back again. This definitely doesn't solve my issue of having a dependable FOX and ABC channel(though WMBB may help on the ABC if it hangs in here with me), but the DX possibilities here are very interesting. :)

Looking at the predictions, today shows no tropo for my area but the southern channels are coming in. This coming Monday and Tuesday conditions improve so we'll see what that brings!

Ed

I am still at the cabling stage for antennas, and I'm measuring for fitment in the attic first, then plan to move the antenna outside if poor signal dictates.
I don't know if you guys saw this web post by a guy who had this similar CM vs. XG91 debate, but I think it's the best I've seen so far of an apples to apples. I am not an RF pro, but to me...having one location ,and setting up both seperately under the same conditions, for the same channel just 1 hr. apart between each test, is good evidence. What is interesting, is that a stronger signal does not necessarily mean a better "lock". Check it out.

Note: I can't post links yet, so Google "CM4228" and it's the 4th hit down. The URL has indy.rr in it.

* I am totally new here "again" having lost previous registration data thanks to email provider conveniently wiping out 4 yr's of my saved inbox for me. The dangers of using "online" email. If they would give us "do not spam" similar to "do not call" someday...life would be so much easier for everybody. Maybe when feature films over internet becomes the norm, the bandwidth/storage capacity will push this bill along.

...Note: I can't post links yet, so Google "CM4228" and it's the 4th hit down. The URL has indy.rr in it...Link: 4228 and 91XG Experience (http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/antenna.html)

I called the 800 number to Australia and ordered this antenna for $47.50 total, including shipping. As mentioned before in this thread, the person had to check before he ok'd the price. At first he mentioned that the shipping was going to be much higher. I explained that others had stated they got it for the $47.50 shipped to the US. At that point he agreed to the $47.50 price and took the order. Should be here within two weeks. I now have more money to spend on a rotor!

I called the 800 number to Australia and ordered this antenna for $47.50 total, including shipping. As mentioned before in this thread, the person had to check before he ok'd the price. At first he mentioned that the shipping was going to be much higher. I explained that others had stated they got it for the $47.50 shipped to the US. At that point he agreed to the $47.50 price and took the order. Should be here within two weeks. I now have more money to spend on a rotor!

Don't count on it.I've heard this story before,several times.

I have the CM 4228 hooked up to the CM 7777. Never used the 91xg but definitely intend to try it, maybe next summer.

I live halfway between Pittsburgh and State College, and pretty much in TV reception hell. I am at the edge of town with the antenna facing across town toward a ridge that is 200' higher. Surrounded by very large trees.

The main problem I've seen has been that lower channels seems to tune in better than higher channels. KDKA-DT out of Pittsburgh (UHF 25) is solid all over the place all the time, even at 60 mi away. However, WPGH-DT (UHF 43) from the same direction is spotty depending on weather. Issue gets worse the higher you go. WTAE-DT (UHF 51) is maybe a once a week treat with the right weather.

Meow Meow. I've been researching spec's on antennas and currently I also own a CM 4228. The following will partly help to explain the dropoff in performance on higher numbered UHF channels.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Other factors may come into play such as transmitter power, tower site and obstacles between your home and the tower site.

This poll is to help me (and maybe anybody else) to decide between Antennas Direct's 91XG UHF yagi and Channel Master's CM4228 8-bay antenna.

I've broken the poll into four different votes so folks that have and haven't used the antenna can vote....some folks voting from "hands-on", while other's might want to vote on "technicals" or "reviews".

Thanks for the help!

Vote away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Ed

ok i have tryed both.
i am in the chicago suburbs, and am trying to recieve chicago and wisconson.
first the cm4228 worked ok but had many drop outs from wis.
i then bought the xg91 and have very few drop outs now.
65 miles seems to be my limit.
i am also useing a cm7777 amp in both tests.
the xg91 is more directional than the cm4228.
i am recieving the chicago stations off the side very well so i just leave it pointed to wis.
i am recieving 50 digital channels, not bad for free.

hxxp://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-91XG-Uni-directional-Antenna/dp/B000LZ9EXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204939314&sr=1-1

change the xx to tt
i got the xg91 from amazon they have excellent custmer service,and it was
$72.94 shipped.
look on the page for there credit card as when i did mine i filed for the credit card and recieved $30.00 off so it just cost me 42.94 shipped.
cant beat that.
the only better antenna is the TELEVES Dat 75
but it will cost you , about $200.00 it is also built as heavy duty as the cm is built heavy duty also but is very heavy.
the xg91 is on the light duty side but very light for its size.
for cost get the xg91 for a few more db gain the TELEVES Dat 75