Hi all,

I am about to purchase my first flatscreen TV. I'm willing to spend ~ $2,000 -- would like to spend a bit less but willing to spend a bit more if it's a decent leap in feature/quality. No more than $2,400.

(1) Will be wall mounted, on an arm that can swing it out at a slight angle (sideways angle, not vertical). I assume this limits me to LCD or Plasma, given that it's wall mounted.

(2) Viewing angles will suck for some of the couches / chairs in the room, so would like a product that has great presentation @ poor angles. I tried looking this up and found sites that claimed that both LCD and Plasma had the best viewing angles, don't know which to believe.

(3) Primary viewing will be HD Tivo -- offers 1080i and 720p. Though, I plan to get a decent receiver w/ HDMI switching --- some claim to upconvert to 1080p....? HD Tivo = 75%, DVD = 15%, Xbox = 10%.

(4) There are a few windows that provide glare, though I do have blackout shades that have proven effective with my previous rear projection TV. Would be nice if I didn't have to use them all the time, but I do have them if required.

(5) Will be connected to a receiver with good Klipsch speakers, I don't really care about the audio capabilities of the TV.

(6) Viewing distance will be: 12 ft FROM EYES TO WALL for the primary viewer (which will be the only viewer 75% of the time). Will be 15 ft or so FROM EYES TO WALL for the other viewers, all at various angles. When I say "from eyes to wall", I'm referring to the distance to the wall that the TV will be mounted on -- meaning that I assume the TV screen will be several inches closer --- partly due to the depth of the TV, but also partly due to the fact that it will be mounted on an arm that can accomodate a horizontal angle, so I assume these are fairly bulky and will unfortunately hold the TV out a couple extra inches than a standard mounting kit.

Given these points, do you guys have any recommendations re:

(a) Plasma vs LCD

(b) screen dimensions

(c) specific models (ok ok I know I'm getting demanding, but hey, you guys are the experts and I know you know 5x more about these sets than I do, so I figured I'd ask and shoot for the moon. :) :) :)

(d) mounting hardware -- I do need the type that can adjust the sideways angle -- once a month or so I may want to tilt it slightly to accomodate a couple guests that would otherwise have a poorer angle than the angle I would usually prefer. Any recommendations?

Thanks so much for any advice.

I say plasma, 50 inch minimum, 60 inches is better but not in your price. You should be able to get the following top brands in your price range (from forum sponsors) to consider:
(alpha order)
NEC (sorry but I don't know the difference between their models, if you want more detail on the NEC models, try PMing itgary as I know he's researched them)
Panasonic TH-50PH9UK (monitor - does not have speakers/stand) or TH-50PX60U (tv - includes speaker/tabletop stand)
Pioneer PDP-507CMS (monitor) or PDP-5070 (tv)

For what is worth, I can watch my plasma from my breakfast seat, 2 feet in front & 18 feet to the side of the plasma without a noticable PQ change. But the angle does create some perspective issues.

Thanks why2not. Would love to hear addl opinions from anyone else too.

My 50 inch plasma (Philips PF509631D) looks very good from my nearly 45 degree, 18 feet dining table seat, only slightly less perspective vs my normal straight on, 10 feet view. I chose plasma over rear-projection sets for this main reason. I don't have a good recollection of how the LCD sets looked at an angle in the store. My plasma is stand mounted and not wall mounted. The bottom of the viewing area is about 31 inches from the floor.

For all of the different angles you describe you need a plasma, 50" should be adequate.

IMO, when viewing angle is a priority, plasma is the only choice. LCD has improved but most models still have noticeable degradation of contrast & color saturation when you move off axis. I went through an evaluation last year and it wasn't even close, to be honest.

A 50" plasma from the choices listed by why2not would seem to fit the bill very well.

I agree, plasmas own hands down in the viewing angle department. No matter where you sit, if you can see the TV you will get a great picture.

Just to break the unanimity here...many of the new LCDs look pretty good at reasonably steep viewing angles, though not as good as plasma. (Surprisingly, some of the most-lauded LCDs seemed to me when shopping to have the biggest problems with off-axis viewing; without naming names, I'm thinking of companies whose names start with the letter 'S') Depending on the actual angle you're talking about, and the room lighting, glare from plasma sets might be a bigger problem than angle for LCDs; we don't know enough about your viewing situation to make a definitive statement.

It sounds like the main person you have to please is the "primary viewer". If there is no glare for this viewer when there is light coming through the windows, then for sure get the plasma, since you can close the drapes when you have guests over and then the plasma will be better for the angle viewers. Otherwise, consider an LCD (if you can find one you like in your size/price range), since the minimal degradation in color saturation for the angle viewers will not be as irritating as having to black out your room all the time. (You might be able to predict the extent of this glare by mounting a shiny glass framed picture in the spot where the TV will go.) - DR

Just to break the unanimity here...many of the new LCDs look pretty good at reasonably steep viewing angles, though not as good as plasma. (Surprisingly, some of the most-lauded LCDs seemed to me when shopping to have the biggest problems with off-axis viewing; without naming names, I'm thinking of companies whose names start with the letter 'S') Depending on the actual angle you're talking about, and the room lighting, glare from plasma sets might be a bigger problem than angle for LCDs; we don't know enough about your viewing situation to make a definitive statement.

It sounds like the main person you have to please is the "primary viewer". If there is no glare for this viewer when there is light coming through the windows, then for sure get the plasma, since you can close the drapes when you have guests over and then the plasma will be better for the angle viewers. Otherwise, consider an LCD (if you can find one you like in your size/price range), since the minimal degradation in color saturation for the angle viewers will not be as irritating as having to black out your room all the time. (You might be able to predict the extent of this glare by mounting a shiny glass framed picture in the spot where the TV will go.) - DR
Yes, I've heard that some of the new LCDs have improved viewing angles. I can't comment on that as both my LCDs do not have the best viewing angles but they are no longer top of the line, being several years old.

Intresting thing I saw the other day on plasma & glare. Mount it so that it leans up or down by about 5%. Glares disappear, as you now need to be at the ceiling or floor to see them. PQ does not suffer at all. I don't have a glare issue even though I've got windows in the room, so I haven't tried it.
Try it with your glass picture & see how much it helps.

Ditto on the plasma. The angle of viewing on our 50" Panasonic 9UK is great. Our primary seating (for two) is 15'...it works fine.

Our living room opens into a 12x8 foyer which opens into another room where our computer sits against the far wall...roughly about 45' from the 9UK. If I hear something interesting on television all I have to do is leanback and look to my right...I can definitely see it well enough to make a decision whether I want to go into the livingroom and watch whatever is on. :D

There is glare issues. We have three windows approximately 5' wide stretching from floor to ceiling on the south side (left) with a smaller window the same width but starting at waist-high on the east side (behind us). Besides this, going through the foyer into the dining room there are more windows (which would be behind us). So, we do have glare issues, but nothing we can't live with since most of our viewing is from a slight angle. I may try the tilt trick and see how that works.

Ed

I agree, plasmas own hands down in the viewing angle department. No matter where you sit, if you can see the TV you will get a great picture.

My Mitsu LCD is equal to or better than any plasma with regards to viewing angle...I can watch it from the side with no discernable loss of PQ. No brag, just fact.

The LCD industry only defines viewing angle as the angle from perpendicular that is the point off angle contrast ratio droping to a certain level. The loss of contrast at off-angles is caused by birefringence, or simply put, some light frequencies go out of phase and the colors either fade or go inverted (very dark, weird looking screens) when it has to go through a thick layer of LCD material (going through the cell gap at a diagonal).

So even a wide-viewing angle LCD can have lower performance at off angle. The other point is that there are issues like off-angle brightness that is NOT part of the viewing angle spec at all and the LCD guys shove the light forward with special films, stealing it from the sides.

The pixel glow of the plasma gas is spherical so there is zero color/contrast ill-effect at off angle.

My Mitsu LCD is equal to or better than any plasma with regards to viewing angle...I can watch it from the side with no discernable loss of PQ. No brag, just fact.

That I would have to see in person to believe. What model do you have? Non-the-less, glad you are happy with your set :).

Dustin

Wait a sec...you view a 50" screen from 15' away? ...Can you even SEE the thing? 50" from 8 feet is about right...from 15, it's just tiny.

Not everyone wants the Cinema effect when watching TV. Also could have to do with price differences...the 60" is quiet a bit more $$$ :)

Er...for normal 4:3 TV usage, I've never been further than 8' away from a 36" set. Those old 13" kitchen TV's from about 2' was normal, and those 20" TVs about 3' from your bed in college...right?

Er...for normal 4:3 TV usage, I've never been further than 8' away from a 36" set. Those old 13" kitchen TV's from about 2' was normal, and those 20" TVs about 3' from your bed in college...right?

I was 8-12 feet from a 27" for ~14years. Being 8-12 feet from a 50" is great ;)

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses. Been travelling for a couple of days, sorry I didn't respond sooner.

Last Sunday, I went to a couple of stores and spent some time with LCD, Plasma, and DLP (even though I knew I wouldn't get DLP, as I knew I wanted wall mount).

re: viewing angle, rear projection faded very quickly. Another reason why it's off the list.

re: LCD and Plasma, I didn't see much difference between the two re: picture quality when observed at the angles I suspect my viewers would use. In fact, I couldn't really tell much of a difference between the two at all. (then again, I'm not an expert --- I suspect someone with a better trained eye than myself could make some interesting observations). Bottom line, I couldn't really tell.

What I *could* tell, was that Plasma had a good amount of glare from light sources. LCD was much better re: glare.

The conclusion I've come to, is that for a truly well set up home theater room (i.e. zero glare sources), plasma has a slight edge on LCD for picture quality. The 10,000:1 contrast ratios are nice.

However, a decent LCD set seems to be as good as a good plasma picture, re: quality.

Given that it's going in my living room (potential for glare), and the kids tend to arbitrarily walk away from the xbox, leaving it on (burn-in concerns), and that the viewing angle seems to be fine with the modern LCD screens, I think I'm going to go LCD. Thanks for all who lended their commentary!!

Now the question is... which one!! :)

The Samsung 46" sets seem nice, with their 6,000:1 ratios. Would like a 50" set but seems a bit out of my price range. Would like to spend no more than 2,500, hopefully less.

Any other recommendations re: 46" or better, LCD, in this price range? I saw a few 46" sets for ~ $2,200, but the contrast ratios were 1,600:1, etc --- I suppose this means the picture quality doesn't really come close to the sets with a better ratio? Comments welcome!!!

That I would have to see in person to believe. What model do you have? Non-the-less, glad you are happy with your set :).

Dustin

I have the 46131 1080p LCD. I was shocked to see that the picture from way to the side looked as good as it does straight on. There is very little degradation...it's virtually unnoticeable, even at 80+ degrees viewing angle. The latest LCD sets have very wide viewing angles, equal to plasma sets.