Just read this article from VARIETY, seems that all the silence from UNIVERSAL was cause of reorganizations in the firm.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1750001025.html?categoryid=20&cs=1

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=806756

What does "back in the saddle again" imply? Please elaborate.

What does "back in the saddle again" imply? Please elaborate.

It's kind of a sentence to imply that UNIVERSAL after some months of silence, like their CES labour and lack of new announcement seems to be taking a decision on continuing with HD DVD tittles.


"Universal will now focus on HD DVD, a big priority for the studio"

I was taking it more like Universal fell off the wagon/horse with no real title releases for the last few months. However until I start seeing some decent titles, its all smoke and mirrors.

Yes, new owners and reoganizaiton. Who knows what they will do now regarding HD DVD. Hopefully something soon.

Now. . . what are the excuses for Warner and Paramount?

Yes, new owners and reoganizaiton. Who knows what they will do now regarding HD DVD. Maybe the new management wants to go a different direction (cough . . .Blu-ray . . . cough).

Now. . . what are the excuses for Warner and Paramount?

I knew this was coming…

See thread? Watch thread degenerate into a Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD school yard argument (i.e Star Wars is better than Star Trek)

My god, does this mean Universal is going to support BD? NOT.

I knew this was coming…

See thread? Watch thread degenerate into a Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD school yard argument (i.e Star Wars is better than Star Trek)

I took the Blu-ray part out of my thread even before I read your reply. I didn't want to cause any undo trauma.

Star Wars>Star Trek
LOTR>Star Wars

Anyway, Of course Universal is gonna go BD. It's only a matter of time. Japan=BD, Austrailia=BD, Most of Asia=nothing as most of those bastards are still using pirated VCDs for HT, Canada=BD, Europe=BD soon as the PS3 is getting alot more hype over there and Bond for the first 500 000 lucky bitches. USA=Still to close to call but all signs point to BD.

BD better get their players down in price quick. I am not talking about the PS3 but their stand alone players. From what I am reading Samsong 2G is their best bet but will not support full BD-J support so will be obsolete from the get go...or have I been misinformed?

Star Wars>Star Trek
LOTR>Star Wars

Anyway, Of course Universal is gonna go BD. It's only a matter of time. Japan=BD, Austrailia=BD, Most of Asia=nothing as most of those bastards are still using pirated VCDs for HT, Canada=BD, Europe=BD soon as the PS3 is getting alot more hype over there and Bond for the first 500 000 lucky bitches. USA=Still to close to call but all signs point to BD.

You honestly think that such a small number of total players and discs sold is nearly enough to decide an entire format's fate? When BD outsells HD DVD by thousands consistently in both categories, I'll buy the notion that HD DVD is in trouble In the meantime, all HD DVD needs is movies being released and it's right back in the thick of things...figuratively speaking, of course, since it never even got out of the thick of things.

BD better get their players down in price quick. I am not talking about the PS3 but their stand alone players. From what I am reading Samsong 2G is their best bet but will not support full BD-J support so will be obsolete from the get go...or have I been misinformed?

The Samsung (and all BD players from now on) has an ethernet port (finally you idiots!) for updates. It is still BD-J 1.0 but it can be fully updated, no problem.

So you are saying I can buy the 2G Samsung with full BD-J support?

The Samsung (and all BD players from now on) has an ethernet port (finally you idiots!) for updates. It is still BD-J 1.0 but it can be fully updated, no problem.

wow so affirmative ... which gen2 BD players do you own that you are so sure :p

I knew this was coming…

See thread? Watch thread degenerate into a Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD school yard argument (i.e Star Wars is better than Star Trek)

that didnt take long did it........... :(

scitek, wait untill this fall when the PS3 has lauched in every teritory and has an installed base of over 15 million by the end of the year. Then yes it will be over in the US and A as well my friend. I have all my stocks in the PS3. The only way BD fails is if PS3 fails, and yes the PS3 has had a rocky start, but so did the PS2 and look what happened with that. MGS4, Killzone 2, Lair, etc are all around the corner and then there is going to be a reason to actually own a PS3 other then BD playback which is what I am (and many others) using it for right now.

scitek, wait untill this fall when the PS3 has lauched in every teritory and has an installed base of over 15 million by the end of the year. Then yes it will be over in the US and A as well my friend. I have all my stocks in the PS3. The only way BD fails is if PS3 fails, and yes the PS3 has had a rocky start, but so did the PS2 and look what happened with that. MGS4, Killzone 2, Lair, etc are all around the corner and then there is going to be a reason to actually own a PS3 other then BD playback which is what I am (and many others) using it for right now.

I still want to know whether I can invest in a Samsung G2 and be confident that it will be BD-J compliant (with full interactivity...all that BD-J can do.) This is a simple question and I am sure I and others would like to know the answer.

The Samsung (and all BD players from now on) has an ethernet port (finally you idiots!) for updates. It is still BD-J 1.0 but it can be fully updated, no problem.


BD-J 1.1 does require more physical RAM (as part of the spec). Hopefully its already in the player or ethernet updates will only be for 1.0 bug fixes (if that).

Welcome Ken Graffeo!!

Now, open up the floodgates please. ;)

scitek, wait untill this fall when the PS3 has lauched in every teritory and has an installed base of over 15 million by the end of the year. Then yes it will be over in the US and A as well my friend. I have all my stocks in the PS3. The only way BD fails is if PS3 fails, and yes the PS3 has had a rocky start, but so did the PS2 and look what happened with that. MGS4, Killzone 2, Lair, etc are all around the corner and then there is going to be a reason to actually own a PS3 other then BD playback which is what I am (and many others) using it for right now.

Conan, since you tried to hijack a thread about Universal into a PS3 lovefest:

15 million? LOL. Not likely.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/86070/Average_Sales_Projections_for_consoles_by_2007

MGS4 wont be out until 2008, Kill Zone 2 is a sham and no one has seen hide nor hair of it since it was revealed the demo was a CGI fraud. Lair has horrendous frame rate issues. No one here cares about games or the PS3.

scitek, wait untill this fall when the PS3 has lauched in every teritory and has an installed base of over 15 million by the end of the year. Then yes it will be over in the US and A as well my friend. I have all my stocks in the PS3. The only way BD fails is if PS3 fails, and yes the PS3 has had a rocky start, but so did the PS2 and look what happened with that. MGS4, Killzone 2, Lair, etc are all around the corner and then there is going to be a reason to actually own a PS3 other then BD playback which is what I am (and many others) using it for right now.

The PS2 had the market to itself for over a year before the Xbox and GameCube came along. The PS3 is getting its face stomped into a curb by both of its competitors at the current time, and unless they give people a reason to buy it over Halo 3 and Super Smash Bros. this holiday, Sony's going to be left in the dust.

Just because it has the Playstation name doesn't mean it'll sell. It's barely moving any units in Japan at all right now and is still being outsold by the PS2. It only moved 30,000 units in Japan last week as opposed to 80,000 for the Wii, and it's been slowing every week since the beginning of the year. Not to mention, its best showing in Japan thus far was with Virtua Fighter 5 last week - a series that's usually insane as far as sales go -, but it only moved 46,000 copies in its entire first week, which isn't a good sign by any means.

People say that the PS3 will have a marginal boost in sales over the 360 because the 360 doesn't sell for crap in Japan, but so far the PS3's bombed in Japan and that advantage is all but gone. Basically, you seem to think that most people will buy the PS3 for its games over the 360 and Wii simply because it's a Playstation. I don't think the Playstation brand name holds nearly as much water as it used to, and I think that the competition will be too great for the PS3 to make up any kind of ground at any point in this year. Don't forget Nintendo still has Metroid Prime: Corruption, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Smash Bros. all coming this year, so the Wii will have quite a lineup of its own to compete with.

scitek, wait untill this fall when the PS3 has lauched in every teritory and has an installed base of over 15 million by the end of the year.

I stopped reading at 15million :(

I stopped reading at 15million :(
To whom are they gonna sell them with a lot of them gathering dust at BBs accross the land? And people returning them left and right?

What does "back in the saddle again" imply? Please elaborate.
Simply put, lets use a quote:

Kornblau’s chief marketing lieutenant, Ken Graffeo, will now focus on HD DVD, a big priority for the studio.

Any more questions?

I knew this was coming…

See thread? Watch thread degenerate into a Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD school yard argument (i.e Star Wars is better than Star Trek)

:p :p

Austrailia=BD
Australia is not BD, this is just FUD. Most of the BD stock is still sitting on the shelves here in Australia. Meanwhile Toshiba’s first shipment of the HD-E1 has all but sold out and the eagerly awaited HD-XE1 is about to be released.

Michael

Star Wars>Star Trek
LOTR>Star Wars

Anyway, Of course Universal is gonna go BD. It's only a matter of time. Japan=BD, Austrailia=BD, Most of Asia=nothing as most of those bastards are still using pirated VCDs for HT, Canada=BD, Europe=BD soon as the PS3 is getting alot more hype over there and Bond for the first 500 000 lucky bitches. USA=Still to close to call but all signs point to BD.

I wouldn't be so sure about Europe. The price of the PS3 is very high here and that might well make many people think twice about purchasing it. The 60Gb model is all that Sony are releasing in the UK, for example, and that will sell at £425 (about $830) on today's exchange rate. In the meantime HD-DVD has been well received in the media, with the HD-E1 and HD-XE1 getting fantastic reviews and the Nintendo Wii sweeping all before in the console market. It ain't gonna be THAT easy for PS3 when it launches.

Star Wars>Star Trek
LOTR>Star Wars

... Europe=BD soon as the PS3 is getting alot more hype over there and Bond for the first 500 000 lucky bitches. ...

Man, don´t do this! Don´t make up stuff, sitting in your chair in front of your computer. I live in Europe and from what I can tell, HD DVD has a tiny lead right now (because of Studio Canal also releasing HD DVD only at this time). The Xbox HD DVD ad-on has sold out it´s first shipment when it was released.

About your "PS3 getting a lot more hype" argument: I know a huge Playstation-fanboy who hates the 360 and even he is down on the PS3. He wants the Wii now! When I told him, he needs an HDTV to get the most out of a PS3, he told me that there was no way, he´ll buy one. He doesn´t care about Blu-Ray the smalles bit.

But I´ll admit that from what I can tell looking at store shelves here in Berlin, they are both not selling very well. PS3 will level things out but I´d be extremely surprised if Blu-Ray discs started flying of the shelves by the end of the year or even next year. Also because HDTV-marketpenetration is very very low here in Europe. Exactly for that reason, the ad-on drive and the PS3 will cancel each other out regarding HD-disc sales.

By the time Blu-Ray hits a critical lead (if it will), HD DVD will be a well established format too. They are both here to stay. Deal with it!


And now can we please return to the original subject? The article about Universal!!!


(P.S.: Don´t compare Star Wars to Star Trek. It makes absolutely no sense because they are completely different. :cool: )

Does anyone know if the full text of the internal Universal memo referred to in the Variety article has been posted anywhere?

Anyway, Of course Universal is gonna go BD. It's only a matter of time. Japan=BD, Austrailia=BD, .

Sort of true but not a real reflection of state of play in Australia.
BD was started about December and HD-DVD started in January although no HD_DVD stuff has been sighted, at all.
In Australia the main retailers (Harvy Norman, Myer & JB Hifi) are only stocking BD. ATM they refuse to stock HD-DVD. They've taken a stance on one system because of our small market and the perception that BD has all the movies. I suspect Sony & Samsung have bitten hard into their ears.
Also the local Toshiba agent (Castel) is crap and are losing the agency in April, apparently Toshiba are going to handle it themselves.
HD-DVD may find it hard to recover but in truth there have been very few players and discs sold, it's just so expensive. It's a non event either way, so far. If Toshiba do their job the war is far from over here.

JB Hifi's stance is weird. They say they won't stock HD-DVD discs at all. If the HD-DVD market increases they'll sell them on their website but not stock them on the store shelves. How weird eh?. Unfortunately, JB are one of the biggest sellers of DVDs in our major cities. I'll be annoying them for HD-DVD discs. :D
(I'm used to hassling for obsolete formats such as vinyl, DVD-A, SACD & D-Theater :cool: )

Star Wars>Star Trek
LOTR>Star Wars

Anyway, Of course Universal is gonna go BD. It's only a matter of time. Japan=BD, Austrailia=BD, Most of Asia=nothing as most of those bastards are still using pirated VCDs for HT, Canada=BD, Europe=BD soon as the PS3 is getting alot more hype over there and Bond for the first 500 000 lucky bitches. USA=Still to close to call but all signs point to BD.

How's the Kool Aid?

Speaking of Universal. Some seem to be blaming Universal for the continued format war. ie. if they sold both BD and HD-DVD then the war would be over.
They fail to mention that if Columbia, Fox and Disney sold in both formats the war may be over too. It just depends whch side of the fence you are at.

I really wish LOTR would come out. That would do so much for the HD camp. I get the feeling that Newline want to produce a total disc rather than HD-DVD only. That could be a year away, I really reckon they should bite the bullett now and not wait for some disc format that may not be easy to produce, and expensive. I would rather they bring it out on each type separately.
LOTR & the Potter movies on HD-DVD could be called killer apps.
Fun times eh?

As someone living in Australia I can tell you straight up, we have not gone blu-ray. Blu-ray players are hardly selling here at all, sitting idle on store shelves. Meanwhile all shipments of HD DVD players have sold out within days of arrival.

You've been listening to too much propaganda about a couple of stores saying they are BD exclusive and thinking that means BD have won down here.

Early adopters down here are very worried about the region coding on BD and those who are buying into the format, certainly are not buying local players or discs.

From what I gather the situation is the same in Europe.

I skip LOTR Theatrical edition.

Format war is over as soon as studio's stop making content for one of the formats.
Not when one of the exclusive studios becomes neutral.

The attach rate of players to HD screens is very important.
People spending $$$$ on HD flatscreens are also willing to buy a HD player for $$$
Cheaper players will sell and as it is now a Toshiba player is the best deal for them.

As long as there is a cheaper SD DVD release I would not count in exclusive box office hit titles to play a major role in the HD format war.

As someone living in Australia I can tell you straight up, we have not gone blu-ray. Blu-ray players are hardly selling here at all, sitting idle on store shelves. Meanwhile all shipments of HD DVD players have sold out within days of arrival.

You've been listening to too much propaganda about a couple of stores saying they are BD exclusive and thinking that means BD have won down here.

Early adopters down here are very worried about the region coding on BD and those who are buying into the format, certainly are not buying local players or discs.

From what I gather the situation is the same in Europe.

Didn't you read conan48's reasoned, well-researched, in-depth analysis? Australia=BD and Europe=BD, probably. Stop spreading FUD!

I was really hoping when I clicked on this thread, I'd be reading a list of upcoming releases that were just announced...

That's the news I am waiting for...

Other then Children of Men, there is nothing I really want in the next 4 months for HD DVD. Yes, even though Im more inclined toward BD, I still own a A1. For BD I got The Prestiege, Casino Royale, Layer Cake, both POTC movies, and maybe a few more. If Universal is 100% committed to HD then give us some titles that we can look forward to. Universal has been and is a continued disapointment to HD DVD supporters.

Yes, new owners and reoganizaiton. Who knows what they will do now regarding HD DVD. Hopefully something soon.

Now. . . what are the excuses for Warner and Paramount?

New OWNERS????? GE still owns them, the question was whether GE would sell them. It hasn't gotten to that yet, the re-orginaztion is to help them be more of a cash cow and less of a break even type company. If this works GE will probably keep both NBC and Universal, but if GE sells anything it will be NBC first.

So basically, this is just more old news, with no new info. Lots of FUD though.
Joy,
J

Didn't you read conan48's reasoned, well-researched, in-depth analysis? Australia=BD and Europe=BD, probably. Stop spreading FUD!

Quick question just occurred to me while reading your response. has EU even gotten a BD player yet? I am not sure what if any of the set top boxs made it their and I know they aren't supposed to get the PS3 till mid march (or was it later this month).

Topweasel. Don't shoot the messenger! Im just spreading facts that have been posted on many websites. BD is winning worldwide and it doesn't matter what kind of HD fanboy you are you will most likely be watching all your new releases in BD by this time next year. I'll keep my A1 as an antique and put it in my closet with my Beta machine.

Sorry conan, but there is NO INDICATIONS that universal is switching to BD. Kornblau is still there and obvsiously a major player in Universal home video. Wishful thinking doesn't make it come true.

I wish I could be more optimistic about HD DVD. But the truth is, the PS3 is a great Blu-ray unit and it is competitively priced with the lower end HD DVD units. If you do a side by side list of announced and likely to be announced titles, the difference will be staggering come summer. The only prayer HD DVD has would be some major defection. And sorry folks, it is becoming quite clear that it isn't gonna happen.

I wish I could be more optimistic about HD DVD. But the truth is, the PS3 is a great Blu-ray unit and it is competitively priced with the lower end HD DVD units. If you do a side by side list of announced and likely to be announced titles, the difference will be staggering come summer. The only prayer HD DVD has would be some major defection. And sorry folks, it is becoming quite clear that it isn't gonna happen.

Wow I love reasoning like this. You do know that HD DVD has more market share right? not by much, but still.

You do know BDJ is still "in development"?
You do know that HD DVD is natively supported in Vista?
You do know that HD DVD has higher market penetration?
You do know that HD DVD has high quality professional replication available to small studios and technology specialists? (0 in sight for BR)

Ok, I wasnt sure if you knew this or not. Step away from movies and home theatres for a minute. I am a consultant, and I have done at least 12-15 HD marketing videos for presentations. When I have to sell seven figures worth of technology changes, my company easily drops 30k-60k for professional replication services to distribute materials on DVD and soon HD DVD. There are other factors at play here.

*edit - if one month of sales could predict product profitability or success, I wouldnt be working for someone else right now, barely making my way through grad school(financially)

Topweasel. Don't shoot the messenger! Im just spreading facts that have been posted on many websites. BD is winning worldwide and it doesn't matter what kind of HD fanboy you are you will most likely be watching all your new releases in BD by this time next year. I'll keep my A1 as an antique and put it in my closet with my Beta machine.

Don't shoot the messenger? You haven't refuted the one fact I said (No new Owners) and haven't answered the question I stated in the second post. You comments have nothing to do with anything I was talking about. I did not question whether BD was winning world wide (honestly I don't think it is but that is my feeling and will not discuss it here) I did not say anything about universals stance on HD-DVD. All I said was that Universal does not have new owners (is and will be for some time GE) and I asked whether or not a BD player has even launched in EU yet.

Shooting the messenger has turned into shooting the troll.

Other then Children of Men, there is nothing I really want in the next 4 months for HD DVD. Yes, even though Im more inclined toward BD, I still own a A1. For BD I got The Prestiege, Casino Royale, Layer Cake, both POTC movies, and maybe a few more. If Universal is 100% committed to HD then give us some titles that we can look forward to. Universal has been and is a continued disapointment to HD DVD supporters.

It's amazing how you can speak for all HD DVD supporters. I wish some people around here could get it into their skulls that not everyone is counting the days until James Bond or Pirates or Spiderman.

Just because you want to watch that kind of stuff doesn't mean everyone does. Just because you have nothing to look forward to on HD DVD doesn't mean nobody else does.

Quadro. Maybe I missed all the titles coming out for HD DVD in the next 4 months. What are you looking forward to? The Good Shepherd seems like it might be a worthwhile purchase. Children of Men is a must buy, and at the same level as Bond, and thats pretty much it. Oh Yeah, Smokin Aces which was decent until suffering one of the worst 3rd acts of any recent movie. Children of Men is gonna be a must buy for me and then most of my titles are gonna be Blu. HD is slowly, but surely digging it's own grave.

Sorry, Topweasel. You were just quoting Quadro who my post was really intended for. ;)

"Kornblau’s chief marketing lieutenant, Ken Graffeo, will now focus on HD DVD, a big priority for the studio."

Can we tattoo this quote on all the extreme fanatics in that other forum?

Quadro. Maybe I missed all the titles coming out for HD DVD in the next 4 months. What are you looking forward to?

Right now I'm looking forward to The Departed (on its way from Amazon), NIN Beside You in Time, The Game, The Jerk, Eternal Sunshine and Planet Earth.

From overseas, I'm also looking forward to getting The Fog, Brotherhood of the Wolf, Elephant Man and Mulholland Drive from France, Natural Born Killers and The Prestige from the UK and possibly Gangs of New York from Spain, depending on whether it's a significant upgrade from the SD.

Other movies that Universal has confirmed are coming to HD DVD this year include Brazil, The Big Lebowski and Shaun of the Dead.

Other movies that may be released in Europe during the second half of the year include Blade Runner, LA Confidential, 2001, Clockwork Orange, Eyes Wide Shut, Ocean's Eleven and The Shining (source (http://hdworld.iforumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=223&mforum=hdworld))

Right there are 16 titles (23 if you include the sketchier ones), in addition to the 15 I already own. At this point in time, there aren't 16 BD titles total I would consider spending money on.

HD DVD is the only current option in Fiji, lol. We made that happen!

This thread has become a good example of why my AVS browsing has dimished so much recently (in the hd-dvd and bluray sections).

Very interesting thread, started with a good premise and becomes an hd-dvd vs bluray chest pump (as so many other threads have become here).

Sad, very sad.

Topweasel. Don't shoot the messenger! Im just spreading facts that have been posted on many websites. BD is winning worldwide and it doesn't matter what kind of HD fanboy you are you will most likely be watching all your new releases in BD by this time next year. I'll keep my A1 as an antique and put it in my closet with my Beta machine.

If you can't produce anything at all to back up your so-called facts, then all you are doing is wasting our time. You are appearing as a raving BluRay fanboy troll and the only way you can correct that, is to provide reliable information to back up your statements.

If you are reading these "facts" on various websites, then start collecting the actual evidence presented on those websites and posting it here in support of your own statements. Otherwise, what you are saying will only be considered FUD and you a disseminator of FUD.

PS. Hey guys, isn't this one of those "Zipatoni" BluRay marketing gambits where the guy supposedly liked HD-DVD, but has come to see the BluRay light? I've the feeling this is the second thread I've seen with him making that "don't shoot the messenger" comment! Seems like we need the internet equivalent of the old practice of tar and feathering followed by running out on a rail :).

(Zipatoni -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipatoni)

If you can't produce anything at all to back up your so-called facts, then all you are doing is wasting our time. You are appearing as a raving BluRay fanboy troll and the only way you can correct that, is to provide reliable information to back up your statements.

If you are reading these "facts" on various websites, then start collecting the actual evidence presented on those websites and posting it here in support of your own statements. Otherwise, what you are saying will only be considered FUD and you a disseminator of FUD.

PS. Hey guys, isn't this one of those Nipilito (sp) BluRay marketing gambits where the guy supposedly liked HD-DVD, but has come to see the BluRay light? I've the feeling this is the second thread I've seen with him making that "don't shoot the messenger" comment! Seems like we need the internet equivalent of the old practice of tar and feathering followed by running out on a rail :).


Agreed.....Conan is clearly a fanboy for BR and a troll. At this point in time, there is no winner in the HD format war. This war is far from over and both formats have there strengths and weaknesses.

.

JB Hifi's stance is weird. They say they won't stock HD-DVD discs at all. If the HD-DVD market increases they'll sell them on their website but not stock them on the store shelves. Theater

JB apparently will be selling the 360 add-on when it is released but you will have to go elswhere for the movies.. Now THAT is weird

I wish I could be more optimistic about HD DVD. But the truth is, the PS3 is a great Blu-ray unit and it is competitively priced with the lower end HD DVD units. If you do a side by side list of announced and likely to be announced titles, the difference will be staggering come summer. The only prayer HD DVD has would be some major defection. And sorry folks, it is becoming quite clear that it isn't gonna happen.

game machine does not equal a standalone HD Player..... unless your 15.

Conan48, you keep accusing of everyone of being fanboys. Just stop. You make yourself look silly, and destroy any credibility you might have had about being impartial by accusing others of being fanboys. I dont understand why you are so utterly frantic over trying to announce blu-ray the winner, in a format war which for all intents and purposes hasn't even begun. Why are you so frantic? Does Blu-Ray make your life that much better that you feel threatened there are actually people who prefer HD-DVD? Get over it man. It's just a piece of optical media.

If you dont have anything constructive to say about HD-DVD or any subtopics, then stay over on the BD side. Everyone can see through your drive-by maskirovka antics.

PS. Hey guys, isn't this one of those Nipilito (sp) BluRay marketing gambits where the guy supposedly liked HD-DVD, but has come to see the BluRay light? I've the feeling this is the second thread I've seen with him making that "don't shoot the messenger" comment! Seems like we need the internet equivalent of the old practice of tar and feathering followed by running out on a rail :).
Yep. Astroturfing...

Everyone can see through your drive-by maskirovka antics.

Wow, that's a hell of a literate (and literary) zing, well done!

Oh, wait...it's a WoW thing... gotcha. :)

I admit to my own incredulity about the passions for these "sides" of the media divide... I had hoped this thread was about Uni announcements, but it seems to have devolved into the usual pissing match.

Here's hoping that the re-saddled Uni gets some great titles as part of their 300, and gets them to us asap... Lord knows they've got enough gems in their vaults to keep any HD stalwart happy for years to come...

Speaking of Universal. Some seem to be blaming Universal for the continued format war. ie. if they sold both BD and HD-DVD then the war would be over.
They fail to mention that if Columbia, Fox and Disney sold in both formats the war may be over too. It just depends whch side of the fence you are at.

I really wish LOTR would come out. That would do so much for the HD camp. I get the feeling that Newline want to produce a total disc rather than HD-DVD only. That could be a year away, I really reckon they should bite the bullett now and not wait for some disc format that may not be easy to produce, and expensive. I would rather they bring it out on each type separately.
LOTR & the Potter movies on HD-DVD could be called killer apps.
Fun times eh?

Ok, I will go for your analogy. If Columbia, Fox, Disney, MGM and Lionsgate were to all start selling both formats, HD DVD might win. Granted.

Similarly, if Universal goes neutral, what do you think would happen?

So: which do you think is more likely given the current situation:
-- ONE studio (Universal) goes neutral
-- FIVE separate studios, with separate ownerships and exec teams, go neutral?

The critical difference is this: Universal must know that they can end the format war with a single unilateral action. However, Disney for example, does not believe this. Disney execs can only decide for themselves. This gives Universal a lot of "power" in game-theoretic terms.

The question is: how do they see their advantage? I think that Disney sees its advantage in ending the format war.

WRT LOTR and Potter: it appears almost certain that, if these titles were to come out, they would come out on both formats simultaneously. Why would this be a huge benefit to HD DVD over Blu-ray?

So: which do you think is more likely given the current situation:
[ ] ONE studio (Universal) goes neutral
[ ] FIVE separate studios, with separate ownerships and exec teams, go neutral?

[X] NO Studio goes neutral


Why would this be a huge benefit to HD DVD over Blu-ray?

Players are cheaper => new adopters are likely to choose the format which is less expencive to them!

Ok, I will go for your analogy. If Columbia, Fox, Disney, MGM and Lionsgate were to all start selling both formats, HD DVD might win. Granted.

Similarly, if Universal goes neutral, what do you think would happen?

So: which do you think is more likely given the current situation:
-- ONE studio (Universal) goes neutral
-- FIVE separate studios, with separate ownerships and exec teams, go neutral?

The critical difference is this: Universal must know that they can end the format war with a single unilateral action.

True, but it wouldn't be just ending the war it would be capitulating to BD.
My point was that either side can claim such a reasoning to "end" the war. One HD-DVD only Universal is arguably equal to all the BD only studios put together. Yes, Universal could decide the issue but so could the others. Just because Universal is one voice doesn't make them responsible for everything. This statement is just a reality check on power of studios. It's not about 1 vs 5, it's about perception of which group of buyers will buy more discs(and players).
This is truly like a game of poker, who can up the ante the most that the competitor can't match it. :eek:
All eyes will be on Universal for some time to come.


WRT LOTR and Potter: it appears almost certain that, if these titles were to come out, they would come out on both formats simultaneously. Why would this be a huge benefit to HD DVD over Blu-ray?
It was my understanding that Newline (LOTR) were to be exclusively HD-DVD until the prospect of a total disc came into their head.
With Potter you are right, it is Warner. I hadn't seen Potter movies listed for BD release (only on HD-DVD), perhaps they are now.

To set the record right, I hope HD_DVD win, I really don't want region coding and other Sony bad habits. However I will buy a BD player if they become cheap enough simply to be able to see all movies.
BD players here in Oz are expensive and are likely to stay that way so the chances of me getting into BD for a long time are slim.
It was far cheaper for me to buy a Toshiba A1 from the states and import it myself last April. (A$950 shipped compared to a local A$1600+ Samsung BD player). The local Toshiba is now selling for <A$1100 if you can get one.

I think a lot of us are trying to empower the decision making but in truth we won't have much of a say. The way studios handle the buying of players and discs by the masses will decide the final fate. This has been said elsewhere. Like all of this debate we are just eunichs (1st buyers) in a sea of men and women (BD & HD in the masses). :(

[X] NO Studio goes neutral




Players are cheaper => new adopters are likely to choose the format which is less expencive to them!

New adopters are really not concerned too much about price. They prefer to have the newest and greatest toys. Early adopters spend much more on equipment than the cost of a HD-DVD or BD player. 499.99 or even 399.99 is still too expensive for jsp.

Of course there is always the possibility that J6P looks at the movies, sees all the ones he wants are BD only, sees the price of the BD players, freaks out, and goes home until BD players drop below $200. So the entire HD market stalls out until the equipment manufacturers start to dig deep and drop the prices. Of course, stuff like LOTR, Harry Potter, and the Matrix will go a long way in making HD-DVD seem more attractive in the eyes of J6P. But unless HD-DVD can woo over Fox or Disney, it will always be perceived as a second cousin to BD. I can live without Sony movies, but if Fox and disney start dropping their catalogue bombs, it is gonna be hard to be HD-DVD exclusive (of course, I'm only in the game since I got a player for $200, no way am I going to drop more than that on a player with such limited titles, HD-DVD or BD).

This thread has become a good example of why my AVS browsing has dimished so much recently (in the hd-dvd and bluray sections).

Very interesting thread, started with a good premise and becomes an hd-dvd vs bluray chest pump (as so many other threads have become here).

Sad, very sad.

Right on!

1. Does J6P even have a HDready viewing device?

2. If he does, do he really care?

HD DVD and BlueRay cant replace DVD, only fill in the gap for high end users.

So this is a small market just as Laserdisc was to VHS. DVD didnt have the problem that you had to buy a SDready device to be able to watch dvd, because every device was SD ready.

If DVDs didnt exist then everybody woud have bought HD devices and the majority had used it as SD output. Now when we have DVD, there isnt so much need for J6P to waste money on HD.

Universal would not consider going neutral until later this year if they do. They have 2007 scheduled and mapped out already. Titles are being worked on for HD DVD including Day/Date, Catalog titles and Televsion shows. They have indicated in the recent press releases that they plan on over 100 titles this year and no BD plans. Just because they are quiet now does not mean they are not gearing up for a big 2007. I tend to believe Universal and Toshiba have worked out a deal to be exclusive for the launch of HD DVD.

If I were running Universal my strategy would simply be to keep HD DVD in the game long enough to enable Toshiba and other manufacturers to establish enough sales of players to be a market force. When the BD studios see that HD DVD is here for the long term then it's time to sit down with Disney, Fox etc. and talk about everyone going neutral (except maybe Sony). No matter what the Blu-boys say many will be buying a HD DVD player for Universal titles - they are afraid of this (that's why all the Universal will go neutral posts), but it's going to happen and already is happening.

Cheers,

Grant

Universal / Toshiba are probably gearing up for Spring assault. May titles have yet to be announced. With the titles being promised, I'm sure May will see the begining of the great films they have promised. Chill out everyone and stop speculation EXCEPT for what titles they may be offering soon on HD DVD.

If I were running Universal my strategy would simply be to keep HD DVD in the game long enough to enable Toshiba and other manufacturers to establish enough sales of players to be a market force. When the BD studios see that HD DVD is here for the long term then it's time to sit down with Disney, Fox etc. and talk about everyone going neutral (except maybe Sony).If you were running Universal, but had to answer for the decisions you made, would your goal be to end up in a situation where every major studio supported Blu-ray and all but one supported HD DVD, for the long run? How would that be a better scenario for Universal (I'm not asking what would be better for Toshiba or Microsoft) than having Blu-ray win, from a business standpoint? Would you need some kind of payoff from the rest of the HD DVD camp in order to implement such a plan, or would you consider it good business sense even without getting a big payoff if successful? I'm being serious here. I understand why many people want Universal to do such a thing, but just trying to figure out what is in it for Universal that makes it worth it, unless they've been promised something at the end.

--Darin

If you were running Universal, but had to answer for the decisions you made, would your goal be to end up in a situation where every major studio supported Blu-ray and all but one supported HD DVD, for the long run? How would that be a better scenario for Universal (I'm not asking what would be better for Toshiba or Microsoft) than having Blu-ray win, from a business standpoint? Would you need some kind of payoff from the rest of the HD DVD camp in order to implement such a plan, or would you consider it good business sense even without getting a big payoff if successful? I'm being serious here. I understand why many people want Universal to do such a thing, but just trying to figure out what is in it for Universal that makes it worth it, unless they've been promised something at the end.

--Darin

Darin, I agree in that prurely from the point of view of Universal it would appear their interest would be in spreading their net as wide as possible. Same for the other studios as well.

However, as long as the market is very small, I believe it does not matter. For instance, do you think the fact that Paramount is hardly releasing any content on either format is going to raise the ire of corporate? I would say no. The profile of both formats are pretty small....

If I remember correctly, Grubert said last year HD DVD did around $15M in total software business. So, let's extrapolate that to $20M SI. If we assume that SI BD is around HD DVD, so we have around $20M SI for both format. So, given that Sony, MGM, Fox, Disney, WB, Paramount and LG all contributed to the $20M for BD that works out to around - $3.5M per studio SI. So, Universal probably left arounf $3-5M on the table in gross revenue by not supporting BD. I am not sure what their start up costs would have been, but not supporting BD is not costing them any significant business at all! From July - Jan on a monthly basis that works out to $500K - $750K per month. That's just a drop in the bucket....if that.

I can argue the same for other studios. When people say that Disney and Fox are rock solid behind BD, I say, it's easy to be rock solid to be behind a format when you are not leaving much on the table :)

When the $ value increases by an order of magnitude, sure it makes sense. I guess it won't be a big deal for Universal to go neutral when they believe the BD market is significant and same for BD studios to publish to HD DVD. It just depends on when either format achieves a point where they cannot be ignored.

As someone living in Australia I can tell you straight up, we have not gone blu-ray. Blu-ray players are hardly selling here at all, sitting idle on store shelves. Meanwhile all shipments of HD DVD players have sold out within days of arrival.

You've been listening to too much propaganda about a couple of stores saying they are BD exclusive and thinking that means BD have won down here.

Early adopters down here are very worried about the region coding on BD and those who are buying into the format, certainly are not buying local players or discs.

From what I gather the situation is the same in Europe.


Sorry, more propoganda.

HD-DVD hardware and software has been sent back to the distributers from many major UK stores. Neither Blu-ray or HD-DVD are selling, but Blu-ray will benefit from a massive marketing campaign once the PS3 arrives.

Awareness of HD-DVD is pratically zero.

Players are cheaper => new adopters are likely to choose the format which is less expencive to them!

For thae sake of $50, even $100, do you think consumers are going to choose HD-DVD to play LOTR, or Blu-ray, on which they can also play Casino Royale, Cars, POTC, Rocky Bilbao etc.

When so many HD-DVD owners are going dual format, arguing over cheaper players is a moot point!

If your on the blue side you need one player, if your on the other side of the fence you need both formats.

Darin, I agree in that prurely from the point of view of Universal it would appear their interest would be in spreading their net as wide as possible.I wasn't saying that and don't really agree. My point was more that they should ask themselves where they want to be in 2-5 years and what it would cost them to do enough to cause that outcome. In other words, is the outcome worth the effort. And, if they want a situation some HD software playes on some machines and other HD software plays on different machines (possibly with some machines that play both side), why they would prefer that situation over just one format, even if it isn't the format that favor. Is holding out going to be more profitable to them than not holding out (which might involve a payoff). I don't know if Universal has been promised something big if they can help HD DVD win or tie, but just trying to figure out from a business standpoint why they would choose certain paths. Since Deja Vu mentioned what he would do if he was making the decisions, I would be interested in hearing why he would make those.

I see people talking about Universal releasing only combo discs (not straight DVDs) and I'm wondering why Universal would cost themselves as much money as that would cost them. In other words, why should they be the lead dog and pull the heavy weight unless they get a big part of the spoils at the end. Maybe they have been promised a big part of the spoils, but I don't know whether they have or not. Other than a studio that is entrenched with one side like Columbia/Sony, I don't see why any studio would prefer a stalemate to the other side winning. Seems to me that all studios would believe that a single format will sell the best and if they can cause the side they want to win then that would be great, but if the choice is between a stalemate and the other side winner, seems like most of them should prefer the other side winning and having one format that takes away confusion.

--Darin

As someone living in Australia I can tell you straight up, we have not gone blu-ray. Blu-ray players are hardly selling here at all, sitting idle on store shelves. Meanwhile all shipments of HD DVD players have sold out within days of arrival.I wish somebody could tell us how many HD DVD players have sold in Australia and Europe total. I saw something about 600 players in Germany for December (or maybe it was the whole Christmas season).

--Darin

They are holding out to allow the superior format to survive. Rent the DVD for those unaware of what I'm referring too. ;)

I wish somebody could tell us how many HD DVD players have sold in Australia and Europe total. I saw something about 600 players in Germany for December (or maybe it was the whole Christmas season).

--Darin
I believe 3,000 units of the E1 were shipped to Australia. If people can't find them in stores then presumably most have sold. I've yet to see one in a store - not that I'm looking for a replacement for my A1 (yet).

I wish somebody could tell us how many HD DVD players have sold in Australia and Europe total. I saw something about 600 players in Germany for December (or maybe it was the whole Christmas season).

--Darin

Australia - The first shipment of 3000 (aparently) Toshiba E2 (A2) sold out. XE2 is due to ship this week. PS3 not available in Australia yet, but Region B Blu Ray players have been out since November 2006.

BD better get their players down in price quick. I am not talking about the PS3 but their stand alone players.

Take one PS3
Add as many Blu-Ray DVD movies as you like
Through in a PS3 remote
Omit any video games
Do Not - under any circumstances take advantage of other PS3 functionality such as the ability to play slide show or get on the internets.

Mix

And presto - you have a stand alone Blu-Ray player.

Am I missing something???

Australia - The first shipment of 3000 (aparently) Toshiba E2 (A2) sold out. XE2 is due to ship this week. PS3 not available in Australia yet, but Region B Blu Ray players have been out since November 2006.Thanks. Do you know how many PS3s are targeted for Australia for March 23rd?

--Darin

15 million LOL that would mean Sony would eclipse both Nintendo and Microsoft which fact out wont happen.

Sorry, more propoganda.

HD-DVD hardware and software has been sent back to the distributers from many major UK stores. Neither Blu-ray or HD-DVD are selling, but Blu-ray will benefit from a massive marketing campaign once the PS3 arrives.

Awareness of HD-DVD is pratically zero.

That's quite a claim, do you have any verifiable sources to back up that statement? Didn't think so.

Darin - you're making an assumption that it is MS and Toshiba and not Universal that are the heavy hitters for HD DVD. It is possible that Universal does not want to see Sony (a competitor as in studio competitor) control a format and collect royalities etc. from Universal if Universal were to go neutral. Part of Universal's business decisions may be to stop Sony, if not completely, and then again maybe, completely from controlling an entire format. Holding out effectively stops Sony and ensures the sale of HD DVD players to Blu-Ray supporters like you - that only helps HD DVD, which in essence is the exact opposite of what the Blu-Ray supporters want to do! Due to content Universal can and is forcing people to support HD DVD to some extent and that's a pretty good start. Is really costing them to support HD DVD exclusively? Not much I'll bet and only if Sony is picking up some of the BD replication cost and that saving is to some exctent artificial since Sony will put a time limit on this if it is actually doing it. Universal can force (because they're addicted to HD content) early adopters to at least be neutral to some degree and that creates market share. It's possible that Sony's support (financial) for Blu-Ray is time constrained and with each passing day it comes under more pressure to finish off HD DVD. I suspect this is the case and one of the reasons it has already declared the war to be over - a couple of times. Sony does it agin and this will challenge its credibility if it hasn't done so already. The bottom line is that neither of us has a clue what is actually going on behind the scenes (even well placed informants seem to be wrong more times than right) so we can only speculate. I'll speculate that Universal is up to its chin in HD DVD and has a game plan that is long term (several years) as opposed to running around like a chicken with its head cut off everytime some new numbers come out. Its all about leverage and Universal can exert more leverage by being exclusive and gaining an advantage (perhaps) as time goes by. You talk about Universal being bought off by the HD DVD camp. Perhaps if it holds out long enough it will cost Sony much more to buy off Universal than it paid the other studios to be exclusive - is that not to Universal's advantage if this is indeed taking place? In fact it could play one format off against the other. I don't think this is happening, but who knows?

Cheers,

Grant

http://www.smart-central.com/backinthesaddle.htm

Take one PS3
Add as many Blu-Ray DVD movies as you like
Through in a PS3 remote
Omit any video games
Do Not - under any circumstances take advantage of other PS3 functionality such as the ability to play slide show or get on the internets.

Mix

And presto - you have a stand alone Blu-Ray player.

Am I missing something???Yes. From what posts I've seen regarding the PS3, you forgot to add:
Put it in the closet to hide it, since it doesn't look like AV equipment ;)

Other than that your mix sounds right (though still too expensive for some of us).

I know quite a few people who didn't buy a PS3 for BD because it wouldn't look good in their AV rack!? Anyway, do people here want both formats to die and not get any HD movies? Because that is what will happen if this war is prolonged. There has to be a clear winner for the average person to get into HD. Studios will not fully support untill there is a clear winner. If Universal continues to support HD exclusivly then it's possible that both formats will be the next DVD-A and SACD. The best thing that could happen to MOVIE FANS is that Universal goes neutral. The best thing that could happen to FAN BOYS is that Universal stays exclusive to HD and both formats fail to gain mass acceptance and both formats die. Wake up people. Universal going neutral is the best thing that could happen to MOVIE FANS. You will argue that why don't all the BD exclusive studios go neutral instead. The answer is simple. It's easier for one studio to go neutral then five. Also I have always been a supporter of content and not hardware. Thats why I own all the major gaming consoles including a high end PC. Thats the only way to get everything from Mario, Halo, MGS, GOW, Crysis, etc. Consoles have proven that they can coexist and still make money. Home theatre is very rare for 2 or more competing formats to coexist. I own an HD player (A1) and a BD player (PS3) because I care about content and not hardware. However when given a choice I always go BD because they are more likely to win then HD, but HD could drag this on untill both formats are dead, and it will be Universals fault.

All Universals fault? Oh brother, what are we going to hear next? :( Yep, it has nothing to do with SONY and their love for proprietary formats. Backup, who left the DVD forum and made their own optical disk format? Hmmmmm. Who was that?

Hey Scoob. It was Toshiba that did not want to compromise with Sony on one format which FORCED Sony to leave the DVD forum. Sony invested billions in their Bluray tech and wanted to use Toshibas software and both companies woud receive royalties but Toshiba did not want to. Im not a big fan of Sony proprietary formats either. I hate their memory stick, UMD, and that DRM crap they pulled with their music CD's. To put it simply, I don't like Sony. I find most of their stuff is overpriced and not worth the premium they charge for it. I don't own any Sony equipment other then my PS2 and PS3. However, because I support CONTENT and not HARDWARE Im forced to go BD because that is where the CONTENT is. Im only buying HD exclusive stuff for my A1 right now because It still has movies not available on BD. If it was reversed and BD only had Universal as an exclusive studio then I would be 100% behind HD because that is where the CONTENT is.

... The best thing that could happen to MOVIE FANS is that Universal goes neutral. The best thing that could happen to FAN BOYS is that Universal stays exclusive to HD and both formats fail to gain mass acceptance and both formats die. Wake up people. Universal going neutral is the best thing that could happen to MOVIE FANS. You will argue that why don't all the BD exclusive studios go neutral instead. The answer is simple. It's easier for one studio to go neutral then five.Wait, you said the best thing, not the easiest thing. It's easier for 1 studio to switch, yes, but that doesn't make it the best choice. The best thing would be to have one format with cheap players. How do you propose to accomplish that? Going Blu-ray isn't going to do it. Or at least not for quite some time, which in the meantime, it could easily die out too.

Going full studio support for HD DVD and having cheaper players overall would garner acceptance of HD in general a lot faster and might do it before the public loses interest in either HD format.

Also I have always been a supporter of content and not hardware. Thats why I own all the major gaming consoles including a high end PC. Thats the only way to get everything from Mario, Halo, MGS, GOW, Crysis, etc. Consoles have proven that they can coexist and still make money. Home theatre is very rare for 2 or more competing formats to coexist. I own an HD player (A1) and a BD player (PS3) because I care about content and not hardware. However when given a choice I always go BD because they are more likely to win then HD, but HD could drag this on untill both formats are dead, and it will be Universals fault.Yes, well not all of us can pay excessively for equipment to watch movies. Cheaper players will look better to our wallets. If they come out with a cheap BD player, I'll support Blu-ray too. If not, put the movies out in both formats and see who comes out on top ;)

I agree. If all studios went neutral then yes I would think HD DVD would win. Cheaper players, easier to mass produce discs, and just the name HD DVD would let Joe Six Pack know that hes getting basically an HD DVD, while Bluray would get the "whats a Bluray response" for JSP. But unfortunatly it doesn't seem like thats gonna happen. BD studios are vocal in their support for BD and HAVE annouced big titles like POTC. Universal seems to be shy in voicing their support for HD DVD. They promised 100 tiltes this year but have annouced almost nothing. They keep saying that they support HD but their actions don't support that. Unfortunately Universal going neutral and most likey THD would be the best thing that could happen right now. We would be getting ALOT more movies right now if it wasn't for this stupid format war.

We would be getting ALOT more movies right now if it wasn't for this stupid format war.I doubt many would disagree with that statement :)

Though there are also good arguments made in favor of the format war. It helps to bring prices down quicker (competition). And it promotes better PQ and AQ for the movies (as can be seen from early BD releases to current ones)...it's unknown whether BD would have improved their PQ without having to compare it to HD DVD.

You talk about Universal being bought off by the HD DVD camp. Perhaps if it holds out long enough it will cost Sony much more to buy off Universal than it paid the other studios to be exclusive - is that not to Universal's advantage if this is indeed taking place?This is part of my point. If you were running Universal and looking out for their best interests, the payoff scenario is something that should be considered. Not that you should necessarily do it, but that it should be part of the calculations. And then the timing could be important. As you say, the buy off could go up. But it could go down if Sony's position strengthens and HD DVD's weakens. Basically, if Universal weighs all the costs and benefits of helping HD DVD win or to get into a position where they have some power, the payoff scenarios from each side should be considered. Having a lull in content doesn't seem like the kind of thing that helps Universal's position here if they did want to consider the payoff route from the other side, just like it isn't a positive for HD DVD's momentum if they are aiming for a win. I don't think Universal is costing themselves much by not releasing much content, but they might be lowering how much power they have in this war.

--Darin

Universal would not consider going neutral until later this year if they do. They have 2007 scheduled and mapped out already. Titles are being worked on for HD DVD including Day/Date, Catalog titles and Televsion shows. They have indicated in the recent press releases that they plan on over 100 titles this year and no BD plans. Just because they are quiet now does not mean they are not gearing up for a big 2007. I tend to believe Universal and Toshiba have worked out a deal to be exclusive for the launch of HD DVD.

The reason I came to this thread is to see what, specifically, Universal has on the docket.

According to (my count) at HighDefDigest, of those promised 100 disks, there are only 6 from Universal announced.

Six!

Am I wrong about this? Have they made any announcements -- or hints -- at anything else?

Remember, The Matrix and Star Trek First Contact were originally HD-DVD launch titles, and we still haven't seen them. It doesn't bode well for any vague "promise" made by any studio, regardless of format (BD or HD-DVD)... and at this point, Universal has a lot of catching up to do! So is there any solid info on their catching up?

-Pie

Yes. From what posts I've seen regarding the PS3, you forgot to add:
Put it in the closet to hide it, since it doesn't look like AV equipment ;)

Other than that your mix sounds right (though still too expensive for some of us).

Oooh! You dis my pretty PS3! This means war, buster! :D

Seriously, though, the PS3 is a beautiful machine. And in terms of aesthetics, the XBox 360 has been a real nightmare for me. I mean, who owns any white Home Theater components? Argghhh!!

The PS3 is absolutely astounding Blu-Ray player, that simply cannot be denied. And one thing that's largely ignored is buying decisions like mine. For the same price as a stand-alone HD-DVD player, I get a videophile grade Blu-Ray player, and I can play games on it... for, what, $100 more? That obviously won't be price difference that lasts, but it's important to note.

Oh, and I bought the XBox 360 HD-DVD add-on for similar reasons (now if my XBox would just start working again... and turn black...) :)

-Pie

Wait, you said the best thing, not the easiest thing. It's easier for 1 studio to switch, yes, but that doesn't make it the best choice. The best thing would be to have one format with cheap players. How do you propose to accomplish that? Going Blu-ray isn't going to do it. Or at least not for quite some time, which in the meantime, it could easily die out too.

Going full studio support for HD DVD and having cheaper players overall would garner acceptance of HD in general a lot faster and might do it before the public loses interest in either HD format.

Yes, well not all of us can pay excessively for equipment to watch movies. Cheaper players will look better to our wallets. If they come out with a cheap BD player, I'll support Blu-ray too. If not, put the movies out in both formats and see who comes out on top ;)

Warner betrayed the HD DVD format with their stalling HD DVD titles while waiting for a work around for BDJ and trying to go with the goofy triple format disc. Had Warner held more pressure would be on blu-ray. Because arguably Universal and Warner are the two most important studios PERIOD.

Moreover, blu-ray would be history if all studios were allowed to go neutral. I doubt this is even debatable.

According to (my count) at HighDefDigest, of those promised 100 disks, there are only 6 from Universal announced.

Six!






Well . . . I guess they're planning a big second half of the year. That must be also true with the other HD DVD studios. Come June or so, I would expect a minimum of 40 titles PER MONTH on HD DVD. If that doesn't happen, then all we got were empty promises. Then many will scramble to "explain" and find "excuses". There are already some people stating that "100 Universal titles in 2007" doesn't really mean 100. And "300 HD DVD titles in 2007" doesn't really mean 300 titles of actual "movies". ??

I don't know. I'm pretty confused. I read a statement by an HD DVD "insider" that stated the slow-down in HD DVD releases was a normal "holiday break." Hmm. . . That's one hell of a break considering it's approaching the third month.

There's obviously something else going on.

Hey Scoob. It was Toshiba that did not want to compromise with Sony on one format which FORCED Sony to leave the DVD forum. Sony invested billions in their Bluray tech and wanted to use Toshibas software and both companies woud receive royalties but Toshiba did not want to. Im not a big fan of Sony proprietary formats either. I hate their memory stick, UMD, and that DRM crap they pulled with their music CD's. To put it simply, I don't like Sony. I find most of their stuff is overpriced and not worth the premium they charge for it. I don't own any Sony equipment other then my PS2 and PS3. However, because I support CONTENT and not HARDWARE Im forced to go BD because that is where the CONTENT is. Im only buying HD exclusive stuff for my A1 right now because It still has movies not available on BD. If it was reversed and BD only had Universal as an exclusive studio then I would be 100% behind HD because that is where the CONTENT is.
Sony never submitted bluray to the DVD forum for approval. They were welcome too but once again they felt the need and greed to form a group outside the established DVD forum to further and create the bluray standard and have total control over the format. What's even worse is while sony were doing this they were using their voting rights to hold up any development of the AOD/HD-DVD standard.

Also if I was any other studio, i would be concerned about sony, giving a rival studio so much power over the format your movies are distributed on is just a serious conflict of interest. This is probably why universal will never come over to bluray, being one of the biggest and oldest studios, they can see the writing on the wall. I think they'd rather create a stalemate then let sony have full control, because to be honest DVD is still doing the job just fine. Also I think universal knows that sony can't subsidize bluray forever.

Universal seems to have an Alliance with Toshiba for now. I'm really thinking they are gearing up for an assault with HD DVD Hardware and Software very soon. The chance of Universal going BD also is very slim (at least for this year). Who knows? Perhaps when the next Gen HD DVD Players (Costing under $3.00) come out BD Supporters may be tempted to get a player. There is no clear cut winner as far as I am concerned.

I bought a BD Player this week because I got my tax refund and found I had "Free Money" and thought why not? Now there will be no question on me not getting any Hi Def titles being released. Could it work the other way?

Also if I was any other studio, i would be concerned about sony, giving a rival studio so much power over the format your movies are distributed on is just a serious conflict of interest. This is probably why universal will never come over to bluray, being one of the biggest and oldest studios, they can see the writing on the wall. I think they'd rather create a stalemate then let sony have full control, because to be honest DVD is still doing the job just fine. Also I think universal knows that sony can't subsidize bluray forever.

This is exactly right. Universal is not losing any money of importance by not supporting BD, like the others not supporting HD DVD. Stock prices are unaffected, bonuses etc, nothing is affected by the HD market in terms of a financial difference at this time. Paramount basically is sitting out of both and with no real hit. Their hedging against a rival right now with no real loss impact, so no sweat, like the others… All sides will move to the winner if that winner makes a financial difference for them in the end, you can take that one to the Illegal Aliens Welcome Bank of America!

IMO piracy is still the death of these new formats. If they don't see a better protection method over DVD there is zero reason for them to even make a new format on a disk at this time.

Warner betrayed the HD DVD format with their stalling HD DVD titles while waiting for a work around for BDJ and trying to go with the goofy triple format disc.

Warner Bros is releasing at least 3 HD DVD's/BD's this month in Bullitt, The Getaway and The Departed. They've also just announced Dog Day Afternoon and A Scanner Darkly for April.

The bigger titles will come once BD gets BD-J together and Warner will only wait so long for that to happen.

Remember, The Matrix and Star Trek First Contact were originally HD-DVD launch titles, and we still haven't seen them.

If by launch titles, you actually mean nearly 2-years after the format launched, you would be correct! Paramount didn't release a single DVD until October of 1998, even though the US launch was March, 1997. The Matrix was released day & date by Warner, but Paramount dragged their feet for 20 months before releasing Star Trek: First Contact, The Saint, Face/Off, Twilight and Kiss the Girls. In addition, the first wave were anamorphically enhanced, yet most of their subsequent releases were not for nearly an entire year! In other words, their quality went to hell for quite a while after the initial wave of titles.

Warner Bros is releasing at least 3 HD DVD's/BD's this month in Bullitt, The Getaway and The Departed. They've also just announced Dog Day Afternoon and A Scanner Darkly for April.

The bigger titles will come once BD gets BD-J together and Warner will only wait so long for that to happen.

My point is Warner betrayed HD DVD by not staying exclusive to HD DVD.

My point is Warner betrayed HD DVD by not staying exclusive to HD DVD.


Agreed! If Warner hadn't bought into the "PS3 world domination" hype by Sony and stayed HD-DVD exclusive, HD-DVD would have already won this stupid format war. Now it seems there will be a stalemate with both technologies remaining niche products. All we can hope for now is that other studios go neutral at some point & we can get more titles on our format without importing them all!

Well . . . I guess they're planning a big second half of the year. That must be also true with the other HD DVD studios. Come June or so, I would expect a minimum of 40 titles PER MONTH on HD DVD. If that doesn't happen, then all we got were empty promises. Then many will scramble to "explain" and find "excuses". There are already some people stating that "100 Universal titles in 2007" doesn't really mean 100. And "300 HD DVD titles in 2007" doesn't really mean 300 titles of actual "movies". ??

I don't know. I'm pretty confused. I read a statement by an HD DVD "insider" that stated the slow-down in HD DVD releases was a normal "holiday break." Hmm. . . That's one hell of a break considering it's approaching the third month.

There's obviously something else going on.

You guess they're planning a big wave! :)

Seriously, given the collapse of several A-List launch titles, is there anything to justify belief in Universal's promise -- a promise completely lacking in "the goods" to back it up? I really want to hear something, anything, to pull the "100 titles" promise out of vaguery.

And look, with the talk about Warner "betraying the format," how does Universal's promise bode?

Anyone have anything substantial? Anything at all?

-Pie

My point is Warner betrayed HD DVD by not staying exclusive to HD DVD.

As long as Warner Bros. does day and date releases on both HD DVD and BD then WB has not betrayed anyone, least of all HD DVD.

I still don't see how Universal is back in the saddle, the releases announced so far aren't even any good. The only one I thought was good was the 40 year old virgin and that's in May right?

Only a few more days to wait now before some really good news here :)

Only a few more days to wait now before some really good news here :)umm... what?

Only a few more days to wait now before some really good news here :)

Good news for whom?

Good news for whom?I don't think he would be posting it here if it was good news for Blu-ray. I assume he means good news for people here waiting for good movies.

--Darin

I guess it means that Universal has seen the light and gone neutral!? and will announce all future titles as total HD discs. The format war will end and we will get all the movies that we've been waiting for. I can only hope :o

I don't think he would be posting it here if it was good news for Blu-ray. I assume he means good news for people here waiting for good movies.

--Darin

I know ;) I do hope HD-DVD steps their game up to get Sony to come out with even higher quality movie's. Competition is what caused Sony and Disney to have ther a-list tiles come out on BD50 instead of BD25 which is what we would haveseen had HD-DVD not been there in the first place..

It was Toshiba that did not want to compromise with Sony on one format which FORCED Sony to leave the DVD forum. Sony invested billions in their Bluray tech and wanted to use Toshibas software and both companies woud receive royalties but Toshiba did not want to.

The burden of proof is on you, do you have a news article you can link to? I would love to see something to back up that claim.

You guess they're planning a big wave! :)

Seriously, given the collapse of several A-List launch titles, is there anything to justify belief in Universal's promise -- a promise completely lacking in "the goods" to back it up? I really want to hear something, anything, to pull the "100 titles" promise out of vaguery.

And look, with the talk about Warner "betraying the format," how does Universal's promise bode?

Anyone have anything substantial? Anything at all?

-Pie

Jumping the gun a bit don't you think. It's not wise to call people out before their time. It's Febuary, there are 10 more months in the year. By all means, if December 31st 2007 comes and Universal has failed to meet their promise, jump up and down and do whatever makes you happy (which probably means more meaningless posting) until that date you're just taking up space in the HD DVD forum...go play with your playstation.

Only a few more days to wait now before some really good news here :)
So it will be here in days & not weeks? :)

Amirm has a new post here that generally talks about the state of HD DVD releases. It syncs with what I know.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9860390&&#post9860390

No it does not have the specifics that will be here soon, but its some info at least.

So it will be here in days & not weeks?

Gawd, don't beat me like you guys do to anxious news about firmware releases

Maybe , I should not have said anything.



patience... grasshopper...patience :)

Amirm has a new post here that generally talks about the state of HD DVD releases. It syncs with what I know.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9860390&&#post9860390

No it does not have the specifics that will be here soon, but its some info at least.



Gawd, don't beat me like you guys do to anxious news about firmware releases

Maybe , I should not have said anything.



patience... grasshopper...patience :)
Thanks for posting this link. I assumed as much but it is good to hear it from a credible source.
If you don't mind I started a thread so we can discuss its contents in more detail.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9864126#post9864126

Amirm has a new post here that generally talks about the state of HD DVD releases. It syncs with what I know.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9860390&&#post9860390

No it does not have the specifics that will be here soon, but its some info at least.



Gawd, don't beat me like you guys do to anxious news about firmware releases

Maybe , I should not have said anything.



patience... grasshopper...patience :)

I'm sorry Kosty. As a rule, I tend to learn a bit from each of your posts, but I have to disagree here. I'm the one who started the run of posts with questions that got deleted, and I really feel that Amir's post says very little, or at least nothing new. It is his basic canned response, that we got after CES when people complained about Universal. Even Warner's canned response to the e-mails was more informative. Amir's was just "Don't worry your pretty little head, everything is under control.". That's fine if you are a Cocker Spaniel, but it didn't do anything for me. AsI've said elsewhere, I'm pretty disgusted with both formats, so now I recomend that people stay away from both.
J
EDIT: We've been told to be patient since December now. They are now announcing May releases. Patience only goes so far.

I'm sorry Kosty. As a rule, I tend to learn a bit from each of your posts, but I have to disagree here. I'm the one who started the run of posts with questions that got deleted, and I really feel that Amir's post says very little, or at least nothing new. It is his basic canned response, that we got after CES when people complained about Universal. Even Warner's canned response to the e-mails was more informative. Amir's was just "Don't worry your pretty little head, everything is under control.". That's fine if you are a Cocker Spaniel, but it didn't do anything for me. AsI've said elsewhere, I'm pretty disgusted with both formats, so now I recomend that people stay away from both.
J
EDIT: We've been told to be patient since December now. They are now announcing May releases. Patience only goes so far.

I'd have to agree with this, Amir doesnt explain at all why Universal is only releasing 1-2 movies per month for a half of a years time frame.

It only says its normal for a slow down and be patient. Not sure about everyone else though but I certainly am not that patient and if supporting HD want to be able to watch more then 2 exclusive movies per month and not have to wait till 6 months down the line for things to pick up for the rest of the year

I'm sorry Kosty. As a rule, I tend to learn a bit from each of your posts, but I have to disagree here. I'm the one who started the run of posts with questions that got deleted, and I really feel that Amir's post says very little, or at least nothing new. It is his basic canned response, that we got after CES when people complained about Universal. Even Warner's canned response to the e-mails was more informative. Amir's was just "Don't worry your pretty little head, everything is under control.". That's fine if you are a Cocker Spaniel, but it didn't do anything for me. AsI've said elsewhere, I'm pretty disgusted with both formats, so now I recomend that people stay away from both.
J
EDIT: We've been told to be patient since December now. They are now announcing May releases. Patience only goes so far.


This slow time of year bulcrap is getting old quick. Anyone else think so? I could understand January and maybe February but now we are heading into March. Should slow time of year also apply to SD releases? If so...SD seems to be doing fine with material being released over the last couple of months. And does anyone truly believe Amir is going to come on here and give all here the plain facts as to what is going on? He is not in charge...he has a boss as do many others here who work....if he opens up too much about what is really going on he would be reprimanded by the powers that be. As people continue to say, only time will tell and hopefully that is sooner rather than later. :cool:

Conan48, you keep accusing of everyone of being fanboys. Just stop. You make yourself look silly, and destroy any credibility you might have had about being impartial by accusing others of being fanboys. I dont understand why you are so utterly frantic over trying to announce blu-ray the winner, in a format war which for all intents and purposes hasn't even begun. Why are you so frantic? Does Blu-Ray make your life that much better that you feel threatened there are actually people who prefer HD-DVD? Get over it man. It's just a piece of optical media.

If you dont have anything constructive to say about HD-DVD or any subtopics, then stay over on the BD side. Everyone can see through your drive-by maskirovka antics.

The people here resorting to the use of the word fanboy in their responses against another member immediately loses validity for me with anything they have posted. I realize that will not mean much in the scheme of things however I do believe many here feel the same way I do. Thankfully, there are only a select few of our members here who feel the need to attack others with the word when trying to get their point across or when they are not in agreement with something they have posted. :cool:

This slow time of year bulcrap is getting old quick. Anyone else think so? I could understand January and maybe February but now we are heading into March. Should slow time of year also apply to SD releases? If so...SD seems to be doing fine with material being released over the last couple of months.

I don't know about anyone else, but this is clearly a slow period for me.

In the last 3 months of last year, I would walk out of Best Buy with 4-5 SD DVD's, plus 3-5 music CDs.

In the last 3 weeks, i've walked out with an HD title (HD or BR) and a CD. No SD DVD at all. It'll likely be this way for another week or two before the flood of content (HD, BR, CD, DVD) comes out.

If you look at the movies coming out in the movie theatres during the first quarter of any year, it's slow. Most studios are concerned with showing their Oscar candidates and will not release any AAA movies, but more of the movies that are sitting on the shelf waiting for release.

I'm sure everyone can discern the difference between a slow period and a problem, which there obviously is on the HD-DVD side.

When every 'official' comment is jumped on, neither side is going to admit to a problem, no matter how reasonable or understandable.

This slow time of year bulcrap is getting old quick. Anyone else think so? I could understand January and maybe February but now we are heading into March. Should slow time of year also apply to SD releases? If so...SD seems to be doing fine with material being released over the last couple of months. And does anyone truly believe Amir is going to come on here and give all here the plain facts as to what is going on? He is not in charge...he has a boss as do many others here who work....if he opens up too much about what is really going on he would be reprimanded by the powers that be. As people continue to say, only time will tell and hopefully that is sooner rather than later. :cool:


Amen to that...

Just wondering, but what kind of release schedule in the next couple of months would make you guys happy?

Just wondering, but what kind of release schedule in the next couple of months would make you guys happy?
How about like the way it was last October and November?
J

Just wondering, but what kind of release schedule in the next couple of months would make you guys happy?

Gladiator would be nice...American Pie, Jurrasic Park series, Back to the Future series, Field of Dreams (re-worked and re-done, horrible picture quality transfer in my opinion), The Great Outdoors, Batteries not Incuded, Dragnet, Harry and the Hendersons, Jaws series, An American Tail, Fletch, E.T., and the Airport series to name a few...Just release one of these titles a week and you will see HD-DVD supporters rejoicing instead of what you are seeing now on these forums..

Just wondering, but what kind of release schedule in the next couple of months would make you guys happy?
Any pace other then the current one....one that suggests the 300 promised titles this year is actually gonna happen....

Just wondering, but what kind of release schedule in the next couple of months would make you guys happy?

At least matching lasts years output would be a start...

If they were previously able to output 10-11 movies per month during a launch period, I would think they would now be more proficient then previously and be able to increase that amount to even more then last year.

The release of only a single movie for the month of February is a problem, I'm sure all of us here would like to be able to watch more then one movie in the month.

Being the only major exclusive studio for HD, this slow of a release rate does indeed cause problems and will deter new consumers from investing in the format.

At least matching lasts years output would be a start...

If they were previously able to output 10-11 movies per month during a launch period, I would think they would now be more proficient then previously and be able to increase that amount to even more then last year.

The release of only a single movie for the month of February is a problem, I'm sure all of us here would like to be able to watch more then one movie in the month.

Being the only major exclusive studio for HD, this slow of a release rate does indeed cause problems and will deter new consumers from investing in the format.

Amen to that :)

Had a thought - triggered by some of the posts.

It would be good that sony NOT get a strangle-hold on the next-gen DVD (blu-ray?). If you now own a sony digital camera, you pay a premium for every memory stick you buy. Not an overwhelming premium, because you don't buy many. But equate that to every new generation disc you buy, and it will cost you plenty.

If Sony is left alone to determine the format, it will NOT be good for the consumer. So, just maybe, HD DVD is doing the BR camp a favor!

Dave

Just wondering, but what kind of release schedule in the next couple of months would make you guys happy?

300/12 = 25

Had a thought - triggered by some of the posts.

It would be good that sony NOT get a strangle-hold on the next-gen DVD (blu-ray?). If you now own a sony digital camera, you pay a premium for every memory stick you buy. Not an overwhelming premium, because you don't buy many. But equate that to every new generation disc you buy, and it will cost you plenty.

If Sony is left alone to determine the format, it will NOT be good for the consumer. So, just maybe, HD DVD is doing the BR camp a favor!

Dave

Those situations aren't really comparable.

Blu-ray is run by the BDA, a group of nearly 200 companies (the board of directors has a dozen companies or so).

Memory Stick is a proprietary format made by Sony, controlled by Sony.

BDA is akin to the DVD Forum -- they have all the same companies in them, actually.

Those situations aren't really comparable.

Blu-ray is run by the BDA, a group of nearly 200 companies (the board of directors has a dozen companies or so).

Memory Stick is a proprietary format made by Sony, controlled by Sony.

BDA is akin to the DVD Forum -- they have all the same companies in them, actually.

I'm always amazed by how little people know about Blu-ray and seem to think it's a Sony-controlled format when companies like Apple, Panasonic, and others are actually part of it.

I think it's some sort of propaganda spin made by Hd-DVd backers to the more, shall we say, naive, members of forums.

I guess I would like to know who owns the patents. Who gets license fees? Anybody know?

Dave

I'm always amazed by how little people know about Blu-ray and seem to think it's a Sony-controlled format when companies like Apple, Panasonic, and others are actually part of it.

I think it's some sort of propaganda spin made by Hd-DVd backers to the more, shall we say, naive, members of forums.

Well, it may have something to do with the percentage of BD enabled players out in the field right now. What is the breakdown by CE companies for standalone players and the PS3? I don't know, but the perception is that Sony is dominating BD playback devices merely with the PS3. It would be interesting to know how much each CE company has actually invested in the format and which CE company has the most to gain, or lose by their investment in the format. The perception is rightly or wrongly) that Sony is driving BD adoption.

I think it's some sort of propaganda spin made by Hd-DVd backers to the more, shall we say, naive, members of forums.



You are silly. mr. sillypost.

I guess I would like to know who owns the patents. Who gets license fees? Anybody know?A little zaibatsu named Sony.
Actually there are 18 companies listed in the Blu-Ray "Patent Pool".
But Sony developed the core Blu-ray technology and according to all that I have read they have the lion's share of the patent rights and rightfully so.

Someone closer to the situation, like talkstr8t would logically have more inside knowledge. It really has not been easy to find out the specifics and I'm sure this is by design.