We all know how thin the release list has been in comparison to BD as of late, but we also know that HD DVD has been holding its own fairly well despite the flood of titles Blu-ray has had, AND despite being outnumbered nearly 6:1 as far as players go if you count the PS3.

Universal doesn't live in a bubble, they know how thin the release list has been - hell, they've contributed to it. So, with the format still selling well despite such a drought, wouldn't that prove that the format is worth supporting to not only Universal, but to other studios as well?

I mean, why do people think HD DVD is dying when its shown that it sells even when it doesn't have new releases? Surely Universal knows all they have to do is release more movies and this format war is in a dead-heat once again, possibly with HD DVD taking the lead for a second time.

Bingo. Spot on.

In before beatboy77, (et al.), gets this thread locked.

In before beatboy77, (et al.), gets this thread locked.
:(

The question I would like an answer to is how long does it take to reproduce a movie from beginning to end? I'm assuming Universal will need to re-author the movies into VC1 and then get them all pressed. With Universal being a major player for HD DVD how many teams do they have working on this and how many movies can they get done?

It would be interesting to see what exactly takes place to make an HD or BR movie.

I've got a feeling there is a build up of titles waiting to be released in a rush towards late spring, and another rush in the fall towards xmas...

Again, this is just a gut feeling I have.

Who says HD-DVD is selling well right now?

Last I checked, both HD and BD were struggling and HD wasn't even at the top of that short list..

I'm sure Universal realizes the death of movies is certainly causing many to sit on their wallets. However they've announced that 100 exclusive titles are coming and odds are they have pretty big plans for adding interactivity and web features to some of those titles in 2007.

The only dire crap that I've read is from Blu-ray fans that want/wish Universal to crumble so that they get what they want which is all movies. Hell it's just as easy for Fox and Disney to come across as it would be for Universal.

I'm sure Universal realizes the death of movies is certainly causing many to sit on their wallets. However they've announced that 100 exclusive titles are coming and odds are they have pretty big plans for adding interactivity and web features to some of those titles in 2007.

The only dire crap that I've read is from Blu-ray fans that want/wish Universal to crumble so that they get what they want which is all movies. Hell it's just as easy for Fox and Disney to come across as it would be for Universal.
yea, but that would not be fair or something. :D I've already decided that I'll be picking up a PS3 later this year. There will be a few games I want for it and beats upgrading my current PC. Plus there are some movies I want to watch and frankly I'm tired of waiting. I went with HD DVD first since it had a great price point and it performed pretty well and the movies looked great.

If WB wasn't coming out with their TotalHD disc I think it would have been interesting to see if they would have just gone exclusive on HD DVD. The HD group has their interactivity stuff together and it seems WB likes to put that stuff on their movies (Follow the White Rabbit on the Matrix rings a bell).

What I find funny is a year ago we had nothing but DVD with its DD and DTS and now we have debates on VC1/Mpeg 2, TrueHD/PCM. We got better sound with both formats then what we had on DVD not to mention the picture looks way better and people still have to argue over something.

I don't mind the competition between the two formats, it's just to bad the Studios will not the consumers decide which they like.

Both BD and HD DVD sales are dismal (comparatively speaking). Frankly, there's not much of a market yet and there won't be until more of the "average" consumer gets involved. Right now there's just jockeying for positioning. Some (including myself) feel that HD DVD's drought of late is hurting their positioning. I am disappointed that HD DVD's momentum has been slowed by choice.

I still have questions as to why the slowdown. It's not just Universal. It's just as much Paramount and Warner. My speculation is that it might have something to do with breached security and the efforts to better protect content. Many of the excuses given (i.e. normal slowdown, holiday breaks, second thoughts about the format, etc) I just don't believe are accurate.

I believe that both formats will continue for years. I'm having big hopes for the second have of 2007. I will, however, be very concerned if this slowdown continues throughout the year and they back off of their promised 300 new titles -- 100+ of which are coming from Universal alone. If that changes and expectations are lowered, I will be genuinely concerned and disappointed.

I think the steadiness of HD DVD sales is a good indication of standalone sales. Batman Begins is constantly in the top ten, which shows that new people are getting players everyday.

I too believe both formats will be around for years. I plan on buying a dual format player if the prices become reasonable.

Sales realtive to DVD are irrelevant at this time.

Both formats are positioning themselves and Sony are banking on consumer confidence dropping away from HD-DVD, which it is, and Blu-ray to be boosted, which is also happening.

HD-DVD may up their game, but the signs are Blu-ray will continue to push ahead.

I think with the low price point HD-DVD will always be in the game. You won't see any joe blows picking up blu ray with how expensive it is at least not for a long time. I guess I'm a believer that we'll never truly see either format succeed

I think with the low price point HD-DVD will always be in the game. You won't see any joe blows picking up blu ray with how expensive it is at least not for a long time. I guess I'm a believer that we'll never truly see either format succeed
At some point BD machines will come down in price and I hate to say it but the ridiculously high prices of HD DVD combos will kill HD DVD. The smart consumer will realize that the cheaper price of BD disks will more than offset the hardware savings of HD DVD. HD DVD is cutting its own throat with combos.

At some point BD machines will come down in price and I hate to say it but the ridiculously high prices of HD DVD combos will kill HD DVD. The smart consumer will realize that the cheaper price of BD disks will more than offset the hardware savings of HD DVD. HD DVD is cutting its own throat with combos.

While I hate the combos as well, I find there is not much of a price difference, most combos retail anywhere from $34.95 (same as Disney's Blu Ray titles) to $39.95 (same as Fox's Blu Ray titles), sale prices depends on the store.

Hell it's just as easy for Fox and Disney to come across as it would be for Universal.

Does that rebuttle ever make sense? No, clearly it does not.

Does that rebuttle ever make sense? No, clearly it does not.
Makes sense to me.

Does that rebuttle ever make sense? No, clearly it does not.Makes perfect sense to me, too.

Does that rebuttle ever make sense? No, clearly it does not.

Sure it does. For VC1 titles targetting HD DVD for these studios would entail authoring for HD DVD and then converting to Blu-ray. Only 1 encode needed. I fully realize the issue at hand here is Politics and even the Greeks knew that Politics are often an anathema to logic and reason.

When Merchants begin to sound like Politicians it's time to get worried.

Does that rebuttle ever make sense? No, clearly it does not.

Lost again I see. You just can't help coming over here and butting in with your snide remarks can you?


*sigh*

P.S. It's spelled rebuttal.

Sales realtive to DVD are irrelevant at this time.

Both formats are positioning themselves and Sony are banking on consumer confidence dropping away from HD-DVD, which it is, and Blu-ray to be boosted, which is also happening.

HD-DVD may up their game, but the signs are Blu-ray will continue to push ahead.

This post would sound so profound if you weren't such a Blu-ray honk. Consumer confidence really isn't in the picture. Most consumers aren't going to pay even $400 for a player when they've grown accustomed to $80 DVD players with great features.

Actually, after the amount of PS3 units sold in January and February I think that Universal will give more support to HD DVD. The studios are going to start noticing pretty soon that PS3 is not going to be what daydreaming Sony Leaders thought it was going to be.

Actually, after the amount of PS3 units sold in January and February I think that Universal will give more support to HD DVD. The studios are going to start noticing pretty soon that PS3 is not going to be what daydreaming Sony Leaders thought it was going to be.

Yeah, but you can't say that it does help.. I mean they are what? like maybe 80,000 real standalone sold , and about 120,000 HD DVD player (real stadalone), the 360 drive sold about 45,000 unit in Nov and dec, that about 250,000 real player right now, vs about 1.55 Million of possible player.. of course BD is higher, and still lead sell right now.. about 2:1, and will continue as long as there's nothing worth buying on HD DVD.. like now and for the next 2 months...

The only dire crap that I've read is from Blu-ray fans that want/wish Universal to crumble so that they get what they want which is all movies. Hell it's just as easy for Fox and Disney to come across as it would be for Universal.It wouldn't accomplish the same thing unless Fox, Disney, and Sony (not even counting Lionsgate) came across. No matter what format you prefer it should be obvious that if only Fox and Disney came across there would be a similar situation with Sony as the situation with Universal right now (a major studio that is only available on one format). As far as moving movies from one format to the other, since Universal has authored for HD DVD there is a good chance those encodes would work on Blu-ray with little or no changes to the base encode (there are HDi and PiP issues that work both ways). The reverse about the base encode doesn't hold, although it is true that for future releases Fox and Disney could author for both if they wanted to go neutral.

--Darin

Actually, after the amount of PS3 units sold in January and February I think that Universal will give more support to HD DVD. The studios are going to start noticing pretty soon that PS3 is not going to be what daydreaming Sony Leaders thought it was going to be.

lol. sorry, that just made me laugh. and i wasnt aware february NPD numbers came out yet? it is still february right?

lol. sorry, that just made me laugh. and i wasnt aware february NPD numbers came out yet? it is still february right?

February will keep the same tendency. I know why I am telling you. Once they are ready come and look for me. I will not hide if I was wrong.
Once again in Febraury you will see Wii on the first place, Xbox on the second place and PS3 on the thrid place. I do not need you to tell me anything right now.
Wait and we will discuss about it once the numbers are ready. I hope you do not hide. :)

It wouldn't accomplish the same thing unless Fox, Disney, and Sony (not even counting Lionsgate) came across. No matter what format you prefer it should be obvious that if only Fox and Disney came across there would be a similar situation with Sony as the situation with Universal right now (a major studio that is only available on one format). As far as moving movies from one format to the other, since Universal has authored for HD DVD there is a good chance those encodes would work on Blu-ray with little or no changes to the base encode (there are HDi and PiP issues that work both ways). The reverse about the base encode doesn't hold, although it is true that for future releases Fox and Disney could author for both if they wanted to go neutral.

--Darin

Disney and Fox would be all the most consumers would need. Lionsgate can hardly be called a Major studio with their small catalog. Columbia has some good movies but their catalog is not deep either. If Disney and Fox succumbed then it wouldn't take much for Lionsgate to jump and Columbia would hold on to the bitter end.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6166189.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;2

In the grander scope of things, NPD (by way of several analyst reports) now states that, as of February 3, around 4.8 million Xbox 360s, 1.5 million Wiis, and 933,000 PS3s have been sold in the US.

We still don't know how many of those PS3's are actually used as BR players.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6166189.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;2

In the grander scope of things, NPD (by way of several analyst reports) now states that, as of February 3, around 4.8 million Xbox 360s, 1.5 million Wiis, and 933,000 PS3s have been sold in the US.

We still don't know how many of those PS3's are actually used as BR players.We don't know how many of those PS3's are actually used on an HD display, either!!!

Disney and Fox would be all the most consumers would need. Lionsgate can hardly be called a Major studio with their small catalog. Columbia has some good movies but their catalog is not deep either. If Disney and Fox succumbed then it wouldn't take much for Lionsgate to jump and Columbia would hold on to the bitter end.I believe you are right about Columbia's catalog not being deep. However, from looking at the rankings of titles from Videoscan I am getting the impression that day-and-date titles are showing a pretty good advantage in general, for sales Videoscan covers. What they cover is much wider than Amazon (and it looks like Videoscan likely includes Amazon sales in their numbers), where the rankings don't look like the the skew is as much toward day-and-date to me. If this is true, then I think Columbia will continue to be a force for the whole HD on disc market, with titles like "Casino Royale" and "Spiderman 3". Universal has some very good movies and some nice older titles, but they haven't done as well at the box office recently and in looking at their website for upcoming movies, "Evan Almighty" is the only one I see that looks like it is likely to make really big money. "The Bourne Ultimatum" should do well, but I'm not sure if that is even a 2007 title. And Universal has released or announced a high percentage of their top box office titles from the last 4 years (I believe that "Inside Man" is their only title in their own top 5 box offices from 2006 and 2005 that hasn't been released or announced with a date, with "The 40-Year-Old Virgin" being the only other one not released, unless "The Good Shepherd" snuck in there).

So, despite the depth from a few years ago and back, I think if Columbia stays exclusive and Fox and Disney go neutral, then the situation is similar as far as most movie lovers needing both formats to get what they want from the big studios. That isn't even close to what the situation would be if Universal went neutral.

EDIT: I looked on imdb.com and "The Bourne Ultimatum" looks like it is coming out August 3rd, 2007, so might make it for an end of the year HD DVD release.

--Darin

We don't know how many of those PS3's are actually used on an HD display, either!!!


Bloomberg did manage to score January 2007 sales numbers for the Nintendo Wii, PlayStation 3, and Xbox 360. The numbers were handed to Bloomberg from Credit Suisse, who got their numbers from NPD.

Quick recap:

Nintendo Wii: 436,000

Xbox 360: 294,000

PlayStation 3: 244,000

It must be because the ps3 is so hard to find... yeah, that's it.

Since mid November, I've been more and more pessimistic about the future of HD-DVD, even though I've remained solidly in their camp, so far as dollar support.

Now I'm beginning to have a change of heart, back toward a brighter outlook for the format. Here are some reasons:

Sony is hemmorrhaging dollars on BD. Their hard, fast charge ahead with promotion could be seen as aggressive, smart marketing...which is no doubt part of it...or, you could see it for what it is: they've bet the entire house on the success of BD.

They continue to have trouble with interactive features on their software, and when perfected, from what I understand, BD players now available don't support the features anyway.

A quick glance at BD titles now available, give us a glimpse of what an all-BD world would look like, probably for a long time to come: high on price and very, very low on added features and supplements.

On the other hand, HD has its act together already.

Notice the announcement a few days ago, postponing a slew of BD titles. We're back to that old song-and-dance again. Who knows how many of the "avalanche" of titles will end up getting postponed, if not put out to pasture entirely.

Also...the revelation that the Universal slow-down was for the most part brought on by an internal restructuring that had been planned for many months, had nothing to do with flagging support for HD, and just happened to take place at a time that was unfortunate for appearances, market-wise. Evidently, the fellow in charge of the HD sector is just as high on solid support for the format as ever.

My biggest concerns for the near future are:

(1)The high price of combo discs...a problem that will hopefully improve over the next few months. The Best Buy promotion for "The Departed", is a hopeful indication, as was the great reception that this HD-exclusive title got, in the way of retail sales (numbers still pending).

(2)I think Warner is a major player in screwing HD. Instead of issuing titles on glitch-free HD, they're evidently holding off to give BD a chance to catch-up, plus get their act together in the interactive department. I hope Warner is enjoying the dollars that they're NOT making, by having more high-profile HD titles on the shelf, ready for the waiting credit cards of eager HD-player owners.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that Warner's highly touted "THD" discs, are in for a truck load of technical problems and returns. That's one crap-load of stuff to put onto one disc, and still maintain full inclusion of features for each side, as they claim. Regardless of success with a few prototypes...it's not the same as churning out hundreds of thousands, even millions, glitch-free. I think it's going to cost them more in the long run, than separate releases.

So, in short: I'm more bullish on HD, than at any time since last summer. Allowing for a few smart moves over the next few months, I think HD is on solid ground, even if, at worst, we end up with a two format world for the forseeable future.

Sony has plenty of money to spend on BD and the PS3. I suspect they are going to lower the price in an effort to increase sales and accelerate the loss. A move like that could put them in the black in the time frame that the Xbox 360 had.

The Best Buy promotion for "The Departed", is a hopeful indication, as was the great reception that this HD-exclusive title got, in the way of retail sales (numbers still pending).I've been told that it was a mistake on their part and not a promotion. Yes it got a great reception, but since their normal price was more like $35 and it doesn't look like they meant to sell it for $23, I'm not sure how much difference that makes. It looks like Best Buy does have some HD DVD promotions coming up that aren't messups.

--Darin

So, despite the depth from a few years ago and back, I think if Columbia stays exclusive and Fox and Disney go neutral, then the situation is similar as far as most movie lovers needing both formats to get what they want from the big studios. That isn't even close to what the situation would be if Universal went neutral.

--Darin

Didn't Sony buy Columbia from Coca-Cola a few years ago? As I remember the situation, Sony has several "studios."

Sony
Columbia
Tri-Star
A piece of MGM

I used studios in quotes since this situation is like the GM owning several brands. The brands are all the same company.

Sony has plenty of money to spend on BD and the PS3. I suspect they are going to lower the price in an effort to increase sales and accelerate the loss. A move like that could put them in the black in the time frame that the Xbox 360 had.

To put this in perspective, from Sony's financial statement for the period ending March 31, 2006, they had 4 billion in cash and cash equivalents and approximately 6 billion in credit lines.

Microsoft is, last that I read, still sitting on 29 billion in cash.

Also, how does lowering the selling price put Sony in the black when that will exacerbate their loss per unit? Do you expect that game sales or economies of scale will manage to have an impact in the PS3's first year?

Bloomberg did manage to score January 2007 sales numbers for the Nintendo Wii, PlayStation 3, and Xbox 360. The numbers were handed to Bloomberg from Credit Suisse, who got their numbers from NPD.

Quick recap:

Nintendo Wii: 436,000

Xbox 360: 294,000

PlayStation 3: 244,000

It must be because the ps3 is so hard to find... yeah, that's it.
Are these factual numbers?

lol. sorry, that just made me laugh. and i wasnt aware february NPD numbers came out yet? it is still february right?



February will keep the same tendency. I know why I am telling you. Once they are ready come and look for me. I will not hide if I was wrong.
Once again in Febraury you will see Wii on the first place, Xbox on the second place and PS3 on the thrid place. I do not need you to tell me anything right now.
Wait and we will discuss about it once the numbers are ready. I hope you do not hide. :)


I told you Chartwel:


Here are the numbers for february as promised:


Wii 335,324
Xbox 360 228,225
PlayStation 3 127,321

This is the link:

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15503


Hope to hear from you very soon!!!

So Wii and 360 sales both fell by 23%, which we can call the "post-holiday slump", but PS3 sales fell by 50%.....interesting.

So Wii and 360 sales both fell by 23%, which we can call the "post-holiday slump", but PS3 sales fell by 50%.....interesting.
Well, the Wii actually had supply issues since every system shipped to date has been sold.

I told you Chartwel:


Here are the numbers for february as promised:


Wii 335,324
Xbox 360 228,225
PlayStation 3 127,321

This is the link:

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15503


Hope to hear from you very soon!!!


And don't forget that the PS2 continues to outsell the PS3. No matter what way one spins it, PS3 sales are really slumping, falling off more dramatically than the older 360, which supposedly had a 3 or 4 million unit head start.