There are so many things to consider !! After weeks of research, I just can't do it anymore, and have to make a decision. Here are the models on my short list - I would appreciate any feedback :

Polaroid 2001G (80 GB but hackable)
Panasonic DMR-EH75VS (80 GB) or DMR-EH55-S (200 GB)
Pioneer DVR640HS (160 GB)
Toshiba RD-XS52 (160 GB) or RD-XS35 (160 GB) or XS32 (80 GB)

Polaroid DMR-2001G and Hard Drive Upgrades - only the old 2001G has an upgradable drive. All decks should have removable Hard Drives, since it is so easy to fill them up - I cannot understand why the Big 3 have not caught onto this concept? I searched for HD upgrade capability for the others and found nothing so far - but "maybe" it is possible? They could - instead - offer a way to dump the data off the drive to an external drive via a USB or Firewire or preferably, and IDE port in the back of the unit . . . but nooooo. The max drive is stated at 320 GB, so it will not work with these big Mega-drives. But you can swap out drives, allowing you to create an unlimited library. Right now this is the ONLY easy way to create a huge library - because burning tons of DVD's is a very time-consuming process, and it is much simply to access tons of shows on your screen rather than searching through stacks of discs.

Question - with the Polaroid, what does the drive file structure look like if you connect it up to a PC ?? Is it editable? Can you import a DVD or a TV show from the drive onto them main drive of your PC and send the files to friends or family?
Question - I read NextToo's sequence of mods for about 2 hours - great work there. But then I see how he is recommending the Toshiba. I wonder why since he did so much work with the Panny? My guess is he uses the Panny for storage and the creation of a library, but that he uses the Toshiba for day-to-day operation. I only will use one unit - so have to decide whether I want storage, or usability.

Panny DMR-EH75VS and VHS-to-DVD dubbing - I have a lot of old VHS tapes that I want to dub, and only the Panny EH75VS has an integrated VHS deck so it is easy to copy VHS directly to DVD. It is a great idea and makes that "black stack" in my living room, one unit shorter. I love th idea of HD, DVD, and VHS all in one - BUT the Panny has a measley 80 GB drive (what were they thunking?).

Question - how do the others do it ? That is a bit unclear to me. Preferably, just with this unit - they could dub on the fly, right to DVD. But I do not think they can, can they? It is much more time consuning since you need that oter step of recording to the HD first.

Panasonic DMR-EH55-S (200 GB) - seems like a huge drive, but I would fill it up I'm afraid - since I have a lot of pack rat in me. Seems like a great machine, on par with the Pinoneer except for the ease of use that the Pio is famous for.

Pioneer DVR640HS - everyone's favorite it seems, except for the Toshiba guys. Like all of these units except the Polaroid, I do think 160 GB will fill up, and that is the main problem. The firmware problem is fixable, even though sending it away for 8 weeks sucks, royally. The part about not being able to pull chapters out of one show and insert it into another compilation (whereas this is doable on the Toshiba) is a valid concern, although I am not sure how often I would need to do that, because I make my custom DVD's on my computer.

Question - I read that Pioneer has "fixed the firmware" so I assume their new units coming out of the factory do not have this problem. Does anyone know how I could make sure that I find a unit that already has the firmware upgrade in it?

Toshiba RD-XS52 (160 GB) or RD-XS35 (160 GB) or XS32 (80 GB) - other than storage, these seem very similar to one another. It seems the Toshiba has one advantage going for it in that you can edit the original and you can take chapters from one and insert them into another. Apparently with the Pio you can only create a copylist, which is somehow more limiting - but "how" it is more limiting, I am not understanding even though I re-read the posts on that.

Question - since the Toshiba has a 160 GB drive just like the Pio, and it does not have the limitation of not being able to move chapters from one show into another using the original recording, and it does not require a firmware upgrade . . . why buy the Pioneer ??

Sorry for the length of this post - but it is a critical thing to me. The unit I buy will either make me real happy, or have me really upset.

Thanks;
ls

These are the top models that I am considering but not sure if/when I will purchase.

For my purposes/preferences, (which may be non-issues for many other people), the Pioneer has two advantages over the Panasonic: 1) Flex-mode flexibility: the Pioneer MN-mode allows you to independently specify the recording quality and the recording duration. Panasonic links the two with the FR mode. 2) DVD-RW(VR): Panasonic ignores them for the love of -RAM. I like Toshiba's extra features, the complex manual/interface I don't mind, what worries me is that some people have reported that it sometimes refuses to record shows from their cable/satellite box (false or aggresive cp flags?).

If combo units without a HDD can record directly from VHS to DVD, I would assume the EH75 should do it, but I'm only guessing! A HDD copy would be nice if you plan to edit the recording or make multiple copies of the VHS tape or split it on multiple DVDs.

Given the trade-offs you are facing I think buying from a place with a satisfaction-guarantee return policy/exchange would be as important as making a selection.

With my Philips DVDR 3455/37 I simply connect the Video/Audio outs from a VCR to the Video/Audio Ins on the front input of my Philips. Select desired recording quality, choose the front input as source, press record on the Philips and then press play on the VCR. Some people here claim to have switched out the HDD on the Philips unit too, just for general information.

I have read somewhere that the Toshis may be a bit more picky with Copy flags. I don't know much about it really, though. I have no comment on the other questions at this time.

I wouldn't place such a high priority on HDD size if I were you. This is the mistake many people make. Unless you plan to mod a Polaroid like Nextoo and use lots of HDDs, the HDD should be considered as temporary storage only, to be used for editing and time-shifting. These DVDRs have a burner in them for archiving. Otherwise, you might as well just get a DVR and take your chances. I have the 640 and never really exceed half full despite my wife recording many weekly series. If you use the HDD as permanent storage, eventually you will be very sorry when it fails.

As for the editing, I agree that the Toshiba sounds impressive if you plan to do a lot of fancy editing, but I haven't had any need for those extra features yet, and I have made some "best of" music compilations that incorporated clips from an entire season's shows etc. With the 640 it is easy and intuitive to remove commercials which makes up the vast majority of editing, and it is also possible to create compilations etc.

This is all a matter of opinion and priorities, but I personally would never consider giving up the manual bitrate flexibility of the 640 for a few editing bells and whistles, and I like how reliable, and quiet it is, plus I have never had a problem recording anything from a broadcast including premium movie channels etc. I just wish it had component inputs so I could record widescreen content without letterboxing.

I wouldn't place such a high priority on HDD size if I were you. This is the mistake many people make. Unless you plan to mod a Polaroid like Nextoo and use lots of HDDs, the HDD should be considered as temporary storage only, to be used for editing and time-shifting. These DVDRs have a burner in them for archiving. Otherwise, you might as well just get a DVR and take your chances. I have the 640 and never really exceed half full despite my wife recording many weekly series. If you use the HDD as permanent storage, eventually you will be very sorry when it fails.

As for the editing, I agree that the Toshiba sounds impressive if you plan to do a lot of fancy editing, but I haven't had any need for those extra features yet, and I have made some "best of" music compilations that incorporated clips from an entire season's shows etc. With the 640 it is easy and intuitive to remove commercials which makes up the vast majority of editing, and it is also possible to create compilations etc.

This is all a matter of opinion and priorities, but I personally would never consider giving up the manual bitrate flexibility of the 640 for a few editing bells and whistles, and I like how reliable, and quiet it is, plus I have never had a problem recording anything from a broadcast including premium movie channels etc. I just wish it had component inputs so I could record widescreen content without letterboxing.

Not so much promoting the Toshiba here just correcting the record a bit. The Toshiba XS series offers 39 MN settings from 1.0 to 9.2 mps. And also offers flex recording.

Also you can pair up L-PCM audio with any MN bit rate from 1.0 to 8.0 mps. I don't think that is possible with the Pioneer.

As far as editing. Yes the Toshiba offers a lot of features that many may not choose to use. What I do especially like though are the custom user importable backrounds that can be used in both the title and chapter menus. And also the chapter thumbnails. I don't believe the Pioneer offers these capabilities.

I have had 2 of the Panny DMR 75's. The first one would record, but bomb on playback. The second did everthing it was supposed to do but the remote control was faulty. I tried to get another remote, but Panny decided that I had to ship the whole thing back to where I bought it. Yesterday, I ordered the Pio 640. Hope it gets here soon and works as advertised.
The video quality of the second unit was good, though it seemed to not like compressed video from a bball game. It may be a CODEC issue, but I can't control that.

I have had 2 of the Panny DMR 75's. The first one would record, but bomb on playback. The second did everthing it was supposed to do but the remote control was faulty. I tried to get another remote, but Panny decided that I had to ship the whole thing back to where I bought it. Yesterday, I ordered the Pio 640. Hope it gets here soon and works as advertised.
The video quality of the second unit was good, though it seemed to not like compressed video from a bball game. It may be a CODEC issue, but I can't control that.

If by "not like" you mean it didn't look as good, and if you were using the LP mode in the Panasonic, it is the most sensitive to motion artifacts, and bball games are good examples of that. This is because of the trade-offs of the LP mode.

Not so much promoting the Toshiba here just correcting the record a bit. The Toshiba XS series offers 39 MN settings from 1.0 to 9.2 mps. And also offers flex recording.

Do the Toshi-XS HDD models offer independance of the recording quality and recording duration? For example can I record a 4h 50 min program at the MN-quality equivalent of 2h 10min? How about its FR mode? This flexibility can be very handy. With my non-HDD Panasonic I can only simulate this by stopping the recording at the appropriate time (when putting multiple titles on one DVD). Thanks :)

Do the Toshi-XS HDD models offer independance of the recording quality and recording duration? For example can I record a 4h 50 min program at the MN-quality equivalent of 2h 10min? How about its FR mode? This flexibility can be very handy. With my non-HDD Panasonic I can only simulate this by stopping the recording at the appropriate time (when putting multiple titles on one DVD). Thanks :)

Yes you can record at any of the recording rates for the duration you choose.

I have both the RD-KX50 (same as the RD-XS52 but with an 80GB HDD) and the RD-XS54. The KX50 has what it calls an AT or Auto mode for timer recordings. A bit rate is calculated based on the remaining volume of the disc (page 43). I've had the XS54 for less than 24 hours so I'm not sure if it also includes the AT recording mode.

Yes you can record at any of the recording rates for the duration you choose.

I have both the RD-KX50 (same as the RD-XS52 but with an 80GB HDD) and the RD-XS54. The KX50 has what it calls an AT or Auto mode for timer recordings. A bit rate is calculated based on the remaining volume of the disc (page 43). I've had the XS54 for less than 24 hours so I'm not sure if it also includes the AT recording mode.

Thanks! That's a good thing that the user has control of both variables...

Yes you can record at any of the recording rates for the duration you choose.That's cool. I thought the Pioneer's were the only DVDRs to permit it. So how is it graduated? Is it similar to the Pioneer where it allows increments of about 5 or 10 minutes for durations under 4 hours?

BTW Yes, I believe to get LPCM you have to use a bitrate equivalent to XP mode (61 minutes).

Nextoo, have you had any of the reported copy protection problems on your Toshiba(s)?

User definable bit rates are as follows: 1.0, 1.4, 2.0 through 9.2 (.2 increments) for a total of 39 selections. And you can have LPCM audio with bit rates from 1.0 through 8.0. And additional audio choices of 192kHz or 384kHz for all bit rates (1.0 - 9.2).

I have had the CP issue pop up but because I run it (now the RD-XS54) with the Polaroid I have no CP issues. I go STB -> component Polaroid -> svideo Toshiba. This gives me the full widescreen recording to the Toshiba along with the widescreen flag setting that the Toshiba offers.

One more thing to note on the CP issue. I was doing some testing and ran a Magnavox with component inputs to the Toshiba via svideo and had no CP problems. I then tested a Panasonic ES40V and had no CP problems (svideo to svideo). I think anything between the Toshiba and the source may mitigate any CP problems. Just a hunch. And I guess there's always the Grex or the Video Filter.

One thing to note when comparing the two machines. The Pioneer 640 lists out at $400. The Toshiba XS54 (55) lists out at $700. It is considerably more machine but you pay for it. I recently found a XS54 for $255 but it took a while to find it.

Just to try to put the CP issues to rest. I have (3) Sonys (2) Panasonics and (3) Toshibas. They all have CP messages on certain cable stations. like HBO. They all react exactly the same.

The Toshiba XS54 (55) lists out at $700. It is considerably more machine but you pay for it. I recently found a XS54 for $255 but it took a while to find it.
That was a steal!

Whatever you decide to buy, you'd better do it quickly. The HDD DVD recorders are disappearing rapidly from on-line retailers, and I imagine from B&M stores as well.

Good luck.

That was a steal!

Yes a steal. But also a huge risk. It was from a first time seller on eslay. But seemed honest enough when asked a question. $255 + $14 for shipping.

The unit arrived in mint condition. If was barely used as the seller stated. Included the IR blaster cable, HDMI cable, network crossover cable, all cabling actually. The IR blaster cable along with the DVD Ram disc was unopened. Not even a small component scratch on the unit. As like new as like new can be.

I know I can just plug in the crossover cable to get PC connectivity but I plan on hooking the XS54 up to my wireless home network. I want to be able to edit from my wireless notebook from across the room. When editing I think using a keyboard and a pointing device will be a lot better than using a remote. Not sure but it was one of the reasons this flavor of Toshiba looked attractive. Have you tried this?

I was so impressed I snapped a pic of it. Here it is. Top of the line machine.

Toshiba by far makes the best machines. They have more versatility in recording modes and editing then anyone. I would not buy the XS32 though. There were a lot of problems with it since it was their first main HDD model. I would go with the XS35 unless you really want networking and some of the extras that the 50 series offers.

Whatever you decide to buy, you'd better do it quickly. The HDD DVD recorders are disappearing rapidly from on-line retailers, and I imagine from B&M stores as well.

Good luck.

Why are they disapperaring? They are everywhere from what I can see. Except VHS decks, and they indeed are going away fast.

Just to try to put the CP issues to rest. I have (3) Sonys (2) Panasonics and (3) Toshibas. They all have CP messages on certain cable stations. like HBO. They all react exactly the same.Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I use Canadian satellite, but I have never had a problem on my Pioneers with any channel including the premium movie channels. I can record anything to HDD and copy to DVD unrestricted.

User definable bit rates are as follows: 1.0, 1.4, 2.0 through 9.2 (.2 increments) for a total of 39 selections. I looked for a manual to answer this but couldn't find a download:

So am I correct in assuming there is some sort of grid to help you decide what bitrate to pick for a specific program duration? If they are user-definable, does that mean you pick a bitrate and give it a name like: "2Hrs 20Mins", and then you can select from your list when creating a timer event? Otherwise, how do you decide what bitrate to use for a specific time period?

You can't name the presets, but there is a grid in the Toshiba manual that tells you, and it tells you on screen as you mix and match bitrates and sound quality. It sounds more complicated than it really is, but it's incredibly powerful. It comes with 5 presets and all can be customized.

The only downside is the newer units with TV Guide only let you use one "user" preset for recording quality. The older units let you define your own bitrate for each recording. But TVGoS gives you a ton of presets, but only whatever the "User" bitrate is set at at time of recording. So if you aren't home, and want to record show 1 with 4.2/192kbps audio, but show 2 at 6.4mbps/PCM, you can't. One show will need to use a preset.

(it's really stupid, since the old way was perfect)

Overall, though, the Toshiba model really rocks. The XS32/52's biggest problems is the incorrect black level, although some of us have had to replace the DVD drive in the XS32 (but that may start happening to newer models after a couple more years, too)... I only have experience with the Panasonic E80 for comparison, but I love my Toshibas.

I looked for a manual to answer this but couldn't find a download:

So am I correct in assuming there is some sort of grid to help you decide what bitrate to pick for a specific program duration? If they are user-definable, does that mean you pick a bitrate and give it a name like: "2Hrs 20Mins", and then you can select from your list when creating a timer event? Otherwise, how do you decide what bitrate to use for a specific time period?
When setting up a timer recording with the XS54 you have the following preset choices:

XP Audio - LPCM Audio with 8.0 bit rate (1 hr)
XP- D/M2 Audio with 9.2 bit rate (1hr)
EXP Audio - LCPM Audio with 4.8 bit rate (1.5 hr)
EXP - D/M1 Audio with 6.2 bit rate (1.5 hr)
SP Audio - LCPM Audio with 3.2 bit rate (2 hr)
SP - D/M1 Audio with 4.6 bit rate (2 hr)
MP - D/M1 Audio with 3.0 bit rate (3 hr)
LP - D/M1 Audio with 2.2 bit rate (4 hr)
EP - D/M1 Audio with 1.4 bit rate (6 hr)
SEP - D/M1 Audio with 1.0 bit rate (8 hr)
USER - user definable for both bit rate and audio selections.

With the User setting you can setup 5 preset user recording templets. The template allows for the following choices:

Mode - SP, LP, Manual. Under manual you can choose one of the 39 manual bit rate settings. When choosing between them the recording time is displayed (4.7GB volume is the standard for time calculations).

Audio Quality - The choices are D/M1, D/M2, L-PCM. When choosing between the audio settings (for each one of the 5 preset templets) the recording time is adjusted accordingly.

When deciding on a recording quality you choose one of the five as the default for the recording. Or you can just go in quickly and adjust the first template - which is what I usually do. 5 preset templates is overkill in my mind.

Sounds like TVGOS is the restricting factor regarding the "user" bitrate setting only allowing one choice. The 2005 Pioneers were the same way in that you had the usual XP, SP, LP etc presets available, and then you could choose only one MN bitrate...whatever was the current default. If you wanted a different MN bitrate, you had to go back and change the default.

With respect to that, I'm glad Pioneer dropped the TVGOS because with the 640 I can select a different manual MN bitrate for each timer event without having worry about changing defaults etc. All bitrates are always available. The Toshiba sounds very powerful, but I think for convenience with respect to custom bitrates I prefer the Pioneer. I really like the way I can select the best bitrate for a specific recording duration right down to 5 or 10 minute increments and use a different bitrate for each of my timer events. No need to define anything in advance, just set and forget.

Now that I have purchased a bigger HD capable TV, I find I am much more picky about pq so setting the right bitrate to get the best possible pq is paramount. As far as I can tell that is where Pioneer excels, but I am interested in the Toshiba. If it had component inputs I would consider getting one, but as it is I think I will certainly look carefully at Toshibas if/when HD recorders are available. I also like the networking possibilities. Has anyone networked it and played with that?

Yes a steal. But also a huge risk. It was from a first time seller on eslay. But seemed honest enough when asked a question. $255 + $14 for shipping.

The unit arrived in mint condition. If was barely used as the seller stated. Included the IR blaster cable, HDMI cable, network crossover cable, all cabling actually. The IR blaster cable along with the DVD Ram disc was unopened. Not even a small component scratch on the unit. As like new as like new can be.

I know I can just plug in the crossover cable to get PC connectivity but I plan on hooking the XS54 up to my wireless home network. I want to be able to edit from my wireless notebook from across the room. When editing I think using a keyboard and a pointing device will be a lot better than using a remote. Not sure but it was one of the reasons this flavor of Toshiba looked attractive. Have you tried this?

I was so impressed I snapped a pic of it. Here it is. Top of the line machine.
Looks just like my 55s except the 55s are all Black.
The wireless via a laptop is exaclty what I am planning to do. I have not done it yet because my cable wiring( will be redone the beginning of march) my cable modem and wireless router will be moved. This will make the distance alot shorter. This will make the twisted pair wire run alot shorter and neater from the 55 to the router. I will connect bot of my 55s so i can dub accross the network also.

With respect to that, I'm glad Pioneer dropped the TVGOS because with the 640 I can select a different manual MN bitrate for each timer event without having worry about changing defaults etc. All bitrates are always available. The Toshiba sounds very powerful, but I think for convenience with respect to custom bitrates I prefer the Pioneer. I really like the way I can select the best bitrate for a specific recording duration right down to 5 or 10 minute increments and use a different bitrate for each of my timer events. No need to define anything in advance, just set and forget.

Hrrm, the Pioneer 640 doesn't have TVGoS? I didn't realise that.

Hrrm, the Pioneer 640 doesn't have TVGoS? I didn't realise that.Nope...thankfully...that's why it is much more reliable.

With respect to that, I'm glad Pioneer dropped the TVGOS because with the 640 I can select a different manual MN bitrate for each timer event without having worry about changing defaults etc. All bitrates are always available. The Toshiba sounds very powerful, but I think for convenience with respect to custom bitrates I prefer the Pioneer. I really like the way I can select the best bitrate for a specific recording duration right down to 5 or 10 minute increments and use a different bitrate for each of my timer events. No need to define anything in advance, just set and forget.

Yes, this is a great way to maximize the benefit of the MN-modes for unattended recordings. I didn't know the 2005 Pioneers had the one-MN restriction.

Actually Toshiba takes it one step farther.

Using the Toshiba XS52 for example you can set up unattended recordings in flex mode. And set them to record to the HDD. What this means is that the AT setting (flex mode) can be used to record to the HDD and it uses the 4.7GB volume as the recording speed factor. And you also get three choices for audio - D/M1, D/M2 and LPCM.

This allows for maximum flexibility without having to set up each recording with a unique MN assignment. Of course you can if you choose to but the AT mode makes it easier.

I believe being able to record to the HDD in flex mode with 4.7GB as the size factor is unique. Not sure. But I haven't run across another recorder that offers it.

Actually Toshiba takes it one step farther.

Using the Toshiba XS52 for example you can set up unattended recordings in flex mode. And set them to record to the HDD. What this means is that the AT setting (flex mode) can be used to record to the HDD and it uses the 4.7GB volume as the recording speed factor. And you also get three choices for audio - D/M1, D/M2 and LPCM.

This allows for maximum flexibility without having to set up each recording with a unique MN assignment. Of course you can if you choose to but the AT mode makes it easier.

I believe being able to record to the HDD in flex mode with 4.7GB as the size factor is unique. Not sure. But I haven't run across another recorder that offers it.
The Pio 640 has an AUTO mode that does the same thing, except for choices on audio.

Actually Toshiba takes it one step farther.

Using the Toshiba XS52 for example you can set up unattended recordings in flex mode. And set them to record to the HDD. What this means is that the AT setting (flex mode) can be used to record to the HDD and it uses the 4.7GB volume as the recording speed factor. And you also get three choices for audio - D/M1, D/M2 and LPCM.

This allows for maximum flexibility without having to set up each recording with a unique MN assignment. Of course you can if you choose to but the AT mode makes it easier.

I believe being able to record to the HDD in flex mode with 4.7GB as the size factor is unique. Not sure. But I haven't run across another recorder that offers it.
Can you do this with your XS54?

The Pio 640 has an AUTO mode that does the same thing, except for choices on audio.

Sorry I forgot to carry my choice of audio flexibility into my final comment. This does adjust the video bit rate accordingly. LPCM of course reducing the video bit rate considerably. But I believe the audio default with the Pioneer 640 flex mode is 192kHz? Not sure. With the Toshiba XS52 you have the 3 choices - 192kHz, 384kHz and LPCM when setting up a timer recording using the flex mode.

I guess whether or not this is important is dependent on your audio gear. To an audiophile interested in perhaps recording concert footage it may be.

Can you do this with your XS54?

Not yet. :)

With the XS54 there is something like 10 preset video/audio settings for timer recordings. Which in my mind is a decent amount of choices. Plus there is the user definable setting. Finding an optimum user definable setting based on personal recording habits I believe is a good suggestion.

With attended recordings both both the XS52 and the XS54 perform the same.

I'm thinking about getting a VHS/DVD recorder also so I can transfer some old VHS tapes over to DVD. Sorry if this has been asked before, but do any of these machines offer chapter editing on material that is recorded to DVD? If so, how does it work, is it done during the recording or after?

Thanks

Not yet. :)

With the XS54 there is something like 10 preset video/audio settings for timer recordings. Which in my mind is a decent amount of choices. Plus there is the user definable setting. Finding an optimum user definable setting based on personal recording habits I believe is a good suggestion.

With attended recordings both both the XS52 and the XS54 perform the same.
JUst wondering if I missed something, I didn;t see a Flex mode.

I believe being able to record to the HDD in flex mode with 4.7GB as the size factor is unique. Not sure. But I haven't run across another recorder that offers it.

I think that's what the Panasonic FR mode does, which is fine for filling up a DVD with one recording, but when putting multiple titles on a dvd (eg weekly episodes) Panasonic's FR mode can't do it without human intervention (stopping the recording) or over-recording and then chopping it off (or using LP/SP).

The combination of FR/AT and manual MN-modes should have been offered by every dvd recorder, at least the ones with HDD!

I think that's what the Panasonic FR mode does, which is fine for filling up a DVD with one recording, but when putting multiple titles on a dvd (eg weekly episodes) Panasonic's FR mode can't do it without human intervention (stopping the recording) or over-recording and then chopping it off (or using LP/SP).

The combination of FR/AT and manual MN-modes should have been offered by every dvd recorder, at least the ones with HDD!

Got it thanks. My Panasonic does not have an HDD so I wasn't sure. And anything else I have with an HDD (besides the Toshiba) does not have a flex mode. Flex is a great feature and with the addition of MN it is all you need. Thanks for the info.

Do either Panasonic or Toshiba have 16:9 flagging? Pioneer doesn't have that. Heck, Pioneer doesn't even have DV input!

Do either Panasonic or Toshiba have 16:9 flagging? Pioneer doesn't have that. Heck, Pioneer doesn't even have DV input!

Toshiba has what you are looking for. It also offers the most feature rich DVD recorder editing platform available today. Nothing is close. For this reason I would eliminate the Sony.

thank you!

Lifeson, so which one did you buy?? Pleeez pray tell!

I am going thru the same thing now that you did.

I am getting the impression that the present three manufacturers HDD models (Mag, Philps & Poloriod) are not as good as the "old" ones.

The new ones have too much CP issues, no TV guides, PQ problems and problems with the software/firmware.

I kinda like to buy most capable for future applications but I tend to do it after everyone else has. I had no idea the cost for these machines dropped until recently. Basically I have to buy a used system to get what I want today??

Thanks for a great thread!!!!

I could say lots of things here, but all I can think of is:

The party's over.
The horses have left the gate.
There's no turning back now.
The past is prologue.
The well has run dry.
It's a brave new world.
etc., etc.

Party like it's 1999? :D

The new ones have too much CP issues, no TV guides, PQ problems and problems with the software/firmware.The Pioneer international models have "TV Guide Plus", but I don't know for sure if it works here. It's a possibility I suppose, since they have NTSC tuners in them.

But then, there's also that past history of TVGOS and Pioneer recorders not cooperating very well. Don't know if the international models are any different, though.

Thank you Rammi,

Well I guess the TV thing really doesn't matter it would be sooo cool though.

I gues my concerns should be more focused on the PQ, firmware problems and CP issues. I am not going to make thousands of copies, its just for my own use and convenience, jeez.

So what "we" all need are 2006 models? Could you please list those for me, I'll find them.

thanks again, you guys are so cooool.....:D

The Panasonic EH55V and EH75V would probably be the best, and pretty much have everything you want (only analog tuners, though), if you could find them anywhere for a decent price. The Toshiba's, too. They're often on ebay, but for pretty high prices. You'd probably have better luck finding even older models used for a more reasonable price. But then, those are likely to be pretty well-worn, and you never know what you'll get. Of course, many of them are well worth fixing. The older Pannies, Pio's, Toshiba's, and very old Sony's are all good machines.

You can check out all the CC's for any open boxed EH75V's hanging around, and maybe Walmarts for last year's Philips model. All of those mentioned have TVGOS. (Somebody here just found an open box EH75V at a CC recently - for only 200 bucks!)

If you really don't care about the internal tuner, I'd seriously consider one of those international Pioneer or Panasonic models from www.world-import.com or www.bhphotovideo.com.

At least with the Pio's you'll get an NTSC tuner which will work in the US (and the TVGOS if it works - maybe they got the bugs out by now. 'Course, you don't have to use it if you don't want to). Since those two were pretty much at the top of the heap quality-wise up 'till this year, I'd expect them to be very good - probably better than the few domestic models available. And they come with up to 400GB hard drives. The people here who have bought them say they are excellent.

Word has it that someone here will be putting up a brand new Pio for sale here anytime now. Check the "AVS Classifieds" listings.

As far as CP, if you do run into that problem, an add-on, "video enhancer" like the ATX500 or DP5000 should take care of that. World-Import sells those, too.

Thanks Rammi,
Well I am getting brain fatigued. I like all this gadget stuff and those Toshiba's seem to be dynamite. However, as geeky as I think I am(wannabe), I don't know if I would use all its editing capabilities. I don't even think I understand them all.

The Panasonic seems to be rising to the top. It records everything and reads everybody else's.

Reading these posts the last week has been hard. One almost needs to put together a spreadsheet. This one does this but doesn't do that. That one does this but not that..... I am going seriously nuts.

I think the key is to buy a 2006 model to get the most versatility. Which is why I posted to this old thread.

Do you know of any site that I can compare these older models, like on a spec sheet they use to compare the current models with the little check marks and stuff?

Thanks again. Normally electronics get better. So waiting was not a problem...:(

Don't know of a site offhand. Maybe cnet or Consumer Reports?

If you want a 2006 model, then I'd just look for either an EH75V or an EH55V. The last model Pio's would be a good choice, too, but there's no TVGOS. You can't go wrong with one of those, and I sincerely doubt you'll be dissatisfied. I don't think anyone here ever has. If you want the most versatility, then you'll definitely want one that does DVD-RAM. The Pannies and the Pio's generally have the best LP recording quality, also.

I have an EH75V, and I much prefer using it over my Panny E85H and Sony RDR-HX900, which are both pretty classic, classy units themselves.

My second suggestion would be one of those Panny or Pio international units I mentioned. Those appear to have retained all of the features of the older models. If you want the best, but figure the Toshiba's are too complicated or overkilled with features, then those are the best suggestions I can give you.

Thank you Rammi, for taking your time.

I have already started looking for the 75 and 55, and my prospects are looking grim. I find 55s's. So what is the difference between an s model and a vs??

I also checked out the world import site but I do not know what model numbers I would be looking for. Do they change them?? I wonder if the international Pios have that weird dvd format people write about, something about burning on those and nothing else can read it....

I also looked at newegg, crutchfield--nothing there.

Let me know where else I can look, if you think of it. This is a really bad time of year to look for stuff I think.:(

I can't address Pios or Panasonics, but if you're having trouble finding one, or haven't made up your mind, I thought I'd add my two cents about the Toshibas XS models. Unfortunately, you're not likely to find a new one anywhere, but refurbs and lightly used ones appear on ebay regularly. If you're interested, I can go into more detail about the various models.

I don't find the Toshibas to be overly complicated at all. Yes, they're loaded with features, but using them for basic editing, recording, and dvd burning is very straightforward. I bought one for my parents, and if they can record, edit and burn, anyone can (thank God they don't check in here)! My editing is mostly limited to cutting out commercials and creating a few thumbnails. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the range of manual bit rate recording settings is excellent. I'd rather have extra capabilities than too few.

I've recorded hours of satellite audio using the LPCM setting and output it via optical S/PDIF to my pc. Then a bit of cutting with Roxio, and most of the music is indistinguishable from my store bought CDs, at least to my average listener's ears.

The HDDs are easy to replace. The burners can also be replaced, albeit with some quirks. Since these are the components most prone to failure, you can really extend the life of your unit. The burners do seem to fail prematurely, so that's an issue (especially with a used machine) you may not want to bother with. On the good side, if you replace the burner, you can use 8X and 16X media, which not all older dvrs can handle. On many of the Toshiba models the fan runs even when the unit is off (for TVGOS updating), so that might be an issue in a bedroom. The Toshibas are also sensitive to copy protection signals. Overall though, I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

A possible option: pick up a working XS32 (with a remote) on ebay as they go for the least $$. You can try it out, and sell it for close to what you paid, if not more. And, if you decide you'd prefer a Panasonic, at least you'd have something to use while you look for a better deal. I don't know of a place to compare different units, but if you download a couple of Toshiba/Panny/Pio user manuals, that may help decide which is right for you.

I also have a Polaroid DRM-2001G, and the Toshibas are light years beyond it.

I also checked out the world import site but I do not know what model numbers I would be looking for. Do they change them?? I wonder if the international Pios have that weird dvd format people write about, something about burning on those and nothing else can read it....http://www.world-import.com/panasonic-dvd-r.htm

All of the different models are listed starting at about a third of the way on down the page.

"New" Pioneer's:
DVR-550H
DVR-541H
DVR-645H
DVR-745H

Older Pio's (last year's models, maybe?):
DVR-340H
DVR-440H
DVR-640H
DVR-650H

"New" Panasonics:
DMR-EH57
DMR-EH67

Older Panny:
DMR-EH65

All models are modified to play all DVD regional formats (called "code free"). They all record in NTSC video, and the discs can be played here fine. All you really need is a voltage adapter, which they usually will include, but ask them to make sure, and if you get a Pioneer and want to hook up cable or an antenna to use the NTSC tuner (remember, the Panasonics don't have this), you will need the $5.00 "RF connector", part #WSS1905. Once you tell them you'll be using it in the US, they will know everything you need.

They all have different size hard drives, but it's always good to have as much as you can afford. I'd suggest the newer models over the older ones, but that's entirely up to you to decide. They look about the same, feature-wise as the older ones. Otherwise, they are basically the same as the models that were available here up until this year in every other way.

As far as specs on older models, downloading the manuals online like rickc5 suggested is the most thorough way to learn about each one.

Consumer Reports rated the Panasonic highest among plasmas.

Hey everybody thanks for your reponses, I have been reading for days and days.

I have looked for the old pannies -75 and -55s. No luck. I did find a 55S but not sure what the S is for.

I also looked for Pioneers. The thing is this. I don't want to spend over 500 bucks for a used machine.

I have not looked at the Toshibas, yet. I wish there was just one place that you can find all the capabilities (and faults) of a unit. I am so confused now that I am giving up kinda.

This is what I did, I bought a 3575. Hang on now. Its for Dad. I will start converting the VHS over and in the meantime, I will be looking for something else.

getting an idea of features you like is a little hard, since i never had one. but, i do like the idea of changing out harddrives and burners; putting custom pictures for backgrounds for the menu page too. I also like dubbing HS lossless to dvd. But I understand it is mostly one way.

About the vhs's... The home movies I will attempt to download to pc with a dazzle. I will try to save the avi's on discs. (that is if the dazzle makes avi's and I still don't know if it does) I will then edit and burn a mpeg2 dvd.

The other vhs collection will simply be recorded to the dvd recorder hdd and then burned to dvd. that shouldn't be hard, right??? LOL :confused::eek:

So do you like the Philips then? Or do you think you need more?

You can't really argue with the price.

I did find a 55S but not sure what the S is for.



S stands for silver finish. Black models end in K. Standard nominclature for Panasonic products.

"You can check out all the CC's for any open boxed EH75V's hanging around, and maybe Walmarts for last year's Philips model. All of those mentioned have TVGOS. (Somebody here just found an open box EH75V at a CC recently - for only 200 bucks!)"

Hi Rammi,
What is the last year model number for the Philips that has a hard drive and the tvgos??

thanks speed

I have not gotten home yet to see the 3575 I ordered....

What is the last year model number for the Philips that has a hard drive and the tvgos??The 3455, I think.