I'm not sure how having a blank at an interval like that would make things "smoother" in any way. What you're really talking about is play a frame, then have a blank, 24 times a second. It makes no difference how many times you repeat the frame between blanks because of the way modern displays work. Repeat it a thousand times or play it one time between blanks - you see the same exact thing. So what you describe would be the equivalent of a movie projector at 24 fps, which is known to result in unacceptable flicker.

Perhaps I was unclear. Each cycle, the TV has to decide what to display. If the TV is showing 24fps, that equates to 5 cycles. If the TV only displayed the picture for the first cycle, and didn't repeat it - you would see a lot of flicker. I'm talking about replacing one of the 5 cycles with a black frame.

Black Frame Insertion is already used on a lot of higher-end LCDs, with no reports of flicker.

I agree Andy, what is the overall consensus on the XBR3? When will it be introduced, and what changes are expected? A recap on this massive thread would be nice from someone in the know!

I haven't seen any official announcements from Sony yet, but what I've gleaned from rumors in this thread we'll have Sony releasing the A3000 in July/August, and if Sony follows their previous pattern we'll see the XBR5 SXRD's in late Sept. or October. The A3000 is thought to be available in the 50-55" range styled similar to the current A2020, but perhaps in a somewhat thinner cabinet, and the XBR5 will have 60" & 70" sets in a new black style similar to Sony's current LCD's, without the "dumbo ear" speakers, and in a 40% thinner (12-14") cabinet than the current XBR2's. Both are rumored to support the 120Hz "MotionFlow" refresh rates. The XBR5's are said to use DRC-MFv2.5, and the A3000's might use DRC-MFv1.0. Some reports have the XBR5's using HDMI 1.3 with the x.v.color broader color space and maybe "deep color"- for what that's worth. Perhaps the A3000 will too, but it might have HDMI 1.2 and not support HDMI 1.3's features. The XBR5's are rumored to have 4 HDMI inputs, and the A3000's 3 HDMI inputs. Both are said to continue to use replaceable lamps with no LED or laser light sources.

I have not heard anything about CableCard slots, availability of Twin View/multiple digital receivers, improved HTPC compatibilty, TV Guide, customizeabilty (is that a word?) of inputs, etc. yet.

I don't recall when the A2000's features were announced, but Sony announced the current XBR2 SXRD's 6/1/06 so hopefully we'll have some official news soon. IMHO, finding out whether or not the new features add up to any real improvement in picture quality will have to wait until we have the new sets in-hand and can try them out. The changes do sound promising.

So has anyone confirmed picture quality improvements are not happening for yet another year? Only 120hz and HDMI 1.3? In other words, the exact same thing as the Qualia 006, XBR1, and XBR2 with some minor differences..? Not forgetting to mention the A2000/2020. Darn?


andy

i think 40% slimmer is a quality improvement

i think 40% slimmer is a quality improvement

I talked to the Sony rep at CES. He said the new SXRDs would have major improvements in picture quality. Everything thing else he said about a new slimmer cabinet etc. seems to be correct, so I think this TV will be a major upgrade over last year's model.

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/3lcd/release/28475.html

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/3lcd/release/28475.html

Does this news release mention anything about the new SXRDs? I don't see it there, but I could have missed it.

I talked to the Sony rep at CES. He said the new SXRDs would have major improvements in picture quality. Everything thing else he said about a new slimmer cabinet etc. seems to be correct, so I think this TV will be a major upgrade over last year's model.

When did you talk to the rep?? And major improvements? Are you ****ing with me? Better have some. :)

anyone else disappointed about DRC 2.5? I was hoping for 3.0:-(


Hopefully he didn't mean 120hz..:-p



Anyone else think it is strange they come out with their budget line of SXRD first? Wouldn't you think they'd want people to first buy their premium line since they make more money? You'd think the a3000 would come out in october.



Anyone heard of much improvements in their E3000 line? thanks

That's how they did it with A2000 and XBR2. There was no analog to the A2000/3000 when the XBR1 came out as it was a trend setter (thus the likely reason for the increased price and some of the QC issues some folks have experienced).

Does this news release mention anything about the new SXRDs? I don't see it there, but I could have missed it.

That press release has nothing to do with SXRD's, only 3LCD.

Perhaps I was unclear. Each cycle, the TV has to decide what to display. If the TV is showing 24fps, that equates to 5 cycles. If the TV only displayed the picture for the first cycle, and didn't repeat it - you would see a lot of flicker.

No you wouldn't. To get flicker you'd have to have pixels cycling on and off, which doesn't happen on an SXRD. If an SXRD takes a frame and refreshes it 5 times a second, 10 times a second, or 1000 times a second, what you see is the exact same thing. It just holds the frame on the screen until the next update. It makes no difference how many times it refreshes between frame updates, because you'e looking at the same continuous frame.

I'm talking about replacing one of the 5 cycles with a black frame.

And that's where you'll get flicker. What you're talking about is no different than 24 Hz refresh on some kind of display that blanks between refreshes. Refreshing each frame 4 times then having a blank for 1/120th of a second, or holding the frame on the screen for 4/120th of a second and then having a blank for 1/120th of a second are the same thing on a modern display.

Black Frame Insertion is already used on a lot of higher-end LCDs, with no reports of flicker.

But I'm pretty sure they're running at more than 24 Hz.

EricM407 raises the question of flicker, but doesn't current 3:2 pulldown result in an effective 30Hz image on current 60Hz displays, and would an effective 24Hz/fps image flicker on a 120Hz SXRD display?

No. Unless you went and inserted a blank between frame updates.

I know that I don't notice flicker on a 24fps film in a theater.

Movie projectors open and close the shutter multiple times per frame to get rid of flicker.

No. Unless you went and inserted a blank between frame updates.

Movie projectors open and close the shutter multiple times per frame to get rid of flicker.


Thanks, I didn't know that about movie projectors. I found a Wikipedia article that describes what you're saying about movie projector shutters. They say that the projectors' shutters open and close at 48-72Hz on 24fps source material to reduce flicker, but they also say that this effective black frame insertion by the shutter is required in the case of film to trick the brain and give the impression of smooth motion from a series of static images. Would inserting multiple black frames for each frame of 24fps source mimic what a movie projector is doing?

That Wikipedia article that I mentioned can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Shutter).

Will 120Hz tv's ever actually accept a 120Hz signal? I don't like calling interpolation the "right way" to get double the framerate.

What 120Hz sources are you using? biggest application for me would be 24p from the appropriate Blu-ray player...

Does this news release mention anything about the new SXRDs? I don't see it there, but I could have missed it.

i think the point of this post is to show if the new E series will do 24p, which it says it does, then the new XBRS will definitly do it.

Thanks, I didn't know that about movie projectors. I found a Wikipedia article that describes what you're saying about movie projector shutters. They say that the projectors' shutters open and close at 48-72Hz on 24fps source material to reduce flicker, but they also say that this effective black frame insertion by the shutter is required in the case of film to trick the brain and give the impression of smooth motion from a series of static images.

You won't have a series of static images without interrupting the light. There's a long strip of film going through the projector. If the shutter didn't cycle, instead of getting a series of individual snap shots of each frame, you'd see each frame scrolling from screen edge to screen edge one after another. You'd also see the stuff contained on the film between frames that you're not supposed to see scrolling by. It would sort of be like taking one of those overhead projectors teachers used to use (if you can remember such things) and spinning the thing that the transparency rested on to make the image scroll up the screen. You would indeed have nice smooth motion, but it's not at all the kind of motion you're looking for. You don't want to see the film itself moving across your screen.

So they have to only project when the frame's at the right spot in the gate. And then since that would be flickery at 24 Hz, they have to cycle at a faster speed.

Would inserting multiple black frames for each frame of 24fps source mimic what a movie projector is doing?

I think you'd want the blank each time it refreshed to mimic a projector. Or sort of like a CRT. But I'm not really sure why you'd want to do that at all.

No you wouldn't. To get flicker you'd have to have pixels cycling on and off, which doesn't happen on an SXRD. If an SXRD takes a frame and refreshes it 5 times a second, 10 times a second, or 1000 times a second, what you see is the exact same thing. It just holds the frame on the screen until the next update. It makes no difference how many times it refreshes between frame updates, because you'e looking at the same continuous frame.



And that's where you'll get flicker. What you're talking about is no different than 24 Hz refresh on some kind of display that blanks between refreshes. Refreshing each frame 4 times then having a blank for 1/120th of a second, or holding the frame on the screen for 4/120th of a second and then having a blank for 1/120th of a second are the same thing on a modern display.



But I'm pretty sure they're running at more than 24 Hz.

I think we're in violent agreement on the first point. On any LCD based screen, if you refresh the framebuffer with the same data, the picture won't change.

The black frame insertion is absolutely used for 30fps/24fps sources. They are however, running at 120Hz (just like the 2007 SXRD XBRs are rumoured to), not 24Hz. 'Black insersion' (Sony's spelling) is coming on the SXRD TVs if you believe the pictures from a couple of pages before in this thread. And I am not aware of anyone seeing 'flickering' from having a black frame for 1/120th of a second on the LCDs that already have this technique implemented.

Sears has the xbr2 on clearance so it looks like they know something we dont. My guess is that they are getting ready for the newer models?

#1 What model numbers these sets actually end up being is anyone's guess. By the time that '06 models came to market, many of the model numbers had changed from Sony's '06 dealer show.

AT THIS POINT, new LCD XBR sets will be XBR4/5 (Silver/Black, respectfully).

Why Sony skipped over XBR3/4 and went to XBR5 for SXRD is a mystery to me. As a guess, given the similar (front on look) they wanted to avoid model number confusion.

To answer an earlier question, my current arrangement puts me about 6 feet from the TV, so 60" is too big. 50, possibly 55" for me. The irony is that I really don't watch TV, maybe 2 hours a month, so this purchase is for my family, I'll listen to two channel audio.

A3000 series cabinet in depth is between current models and the new XBR5 SXRD sets. Cosmetically, these A3000's are certainly not as sexy as the 60/70 XBR stuff. From a front on view, the A3000's look pretty close to the current A2020 stuff. I think that I've already deleted all photos of that new chassis style - if I happen to have any saved, I'll see if I can find and post.

80" not to my knowledge, but Sony does tend to keep a few surprises up their sleeve, so although I doubt it, I won't completely rule it out.

Where is the pic of the A3000? Is there one floating around?

On any LCD based screen, if you refresh the framebuffer with the same data, the picture won't change.

The black frame insertion is absolutely used for 30fps/24fps sources. They are however, running at 120Hz (just like the 2007 SXRD XBRs are rumoured to), not 24Hz.

If you have a 24 fps source, and you insert one black frame per unique frame update, then your flicker rate will be 24 Hz, not 120 Hz. Your first sentence contains the reason.

Sears has the xbr2 on clearance so it looks like they know something we dont. My guess is that they are getting ready for the newer models?

In last Sunday's paper (The Atlanta Journal & constitution) the local Circuit City's had special, in store pricing on all Sony's 42" & above.

any idea on pricing of the 60 and 70" sxrd xbr5 sets? Also what is the "optimal" viewing distance for each?

any idea on pricing of the 60 and 70" sxrd xbr5 sets? Also what is the "optimal" viewing distance for each?

Check this (http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html#anchor_13194) site out.

If you have a 24 fps source, and you insert one black frame per unique frame update, then your flicker rate will be 24 Hz, not 120 Hz. Your first sentence contains the reason.

Please explain this, and I think there may be some talking by each other here. It seems to me that if you have a 24 fps source and you convert it to 120 Hz projection as described, wherein 4 frames contain information and 1 black frame, the end result is a 120 Hz projection wherein black frames are converted to 120 Hz frames that appear 5 times, equally spaced within a second. No?

Not sure why sxrd would need black insertion frames. Current models have perfectly smooth motion.

Seeing the newest sharp models I could see a slight difference (positive) with the 120hz compared to other lcd's, but I haven't noticed lcos with any motion problems.

Please explain this, and I think there may be some talking by each other here. It seems to me that if you have a 24 fps source and you convert it to 120 Hz projection as described, wherein 4 frames contain information and 1 black frame, the end result is a 120 Hz projection wherein black frames are converted to 120 Hz frames that appear 5 times, equally spaced within a second. No?

I think you would have 24 black frames in a second.

Frame 1 (1/120th second), Frame 1 (1/120th second), Frame 1 (1/120th second), Frame 1 (1/120th second), Black Frame (1/120th second) X 24 = 1 second

or

Frame 1 (4/120th second), Black Frame (1/120th second) X 24 = 1 second

Those two things look the same on an SXRD (or a plasma, DLP, LCD). In either case, what you will see is 24 fps with a blank in between each unique frame of content. The flicker caused by the cycling of the light output is occurring 24 times per second, right? 24 Hz?

If you don't insert a black frame at all, then you have no flicker. Frame 1 just goes to frame 2 and so on. Or if you insert black frames more often (maybe between each refresh, or every other refresh) and run it fast enough, then you won't see flicker. Maybe BFI LCDs use some method like this, I don't know. I assume you'd want the flicker rate up pretty high to be good.

What in the name of gozer would you want to insert a black frame for?

The shutter on a film projector closes (your "black frame) to allow the film to advance to the next frame... otherwise you'd see a big blur as it did. But you don't need that in a digital projector, where each frame is updated at the pixel level, instantly.

What in the name of gozer would you want to insert a black frame for?

The shutter on a film projector closes (your "black frame) to allow the film to advance to the next frame... otherwise you'd see a big blur as it did. But you don't need that in a digital projector, where each frame is updated at the pixel level, instantly.

However, if you are watching a film transfer on your digital projector, somewhere, somehow, an action is required to cover the movement of the film from one frame to the next.

In the telecine, not in the projection of the resulting video.

I also don't see any point in inserting blank frames. Why not just read each frame 5 times instead of 4?

As for compensating for 3:2 pulldown, Sony should be able to make an intelligent circuit that would sense it and expand the number of scans properly for each film frame to make things display properly.

Also, I agree. The telecine process that converts from film to video already ignores the motion of the film and only scans when it is stopped.

I also don't see any point in inserting blank frames. Why not just read each frame 5 times instead of 4?

As for compensating for 3:2 pulldown, Sony should be able to make an intelligent circuit that would sense it and expand the number of scans properly for each film frame to make things display properly.

Also, I agree. The telecine process that converts from film to video already ignores the motion of the film and only scans when it is stopped.

So what do you see at the output of the telecine when the film is in motion? A black screen or is there stored image data from a buffer filling the gap?

I also don't see any point in inserting blank frames. Why not just read each frame 5 times instead of 4?

As for compensating for 3:2 pulldown, Sony should be able to make an intelligent circuit that would sense it and expand the number of scans properly for each film frame to make things display properly.

Also, I agree. The telecine process that converts from film to video already ignores the motion of the film and only scans when it is stopped.


You are essentially correct - the circuit separates the 180i frames and recombines then into the original 180p frame and then displays each reconstructed 180p frame 5 times at a frequency of 24hz (24 x 5 = 120). A 180i/30hz signal is similarily separated and reconstructed and then each 180p frame is displayed 4 times at a frequency of 30hz (30 x 4 = 120).

So what do you see at the output of the telecine when the film is in motion? A black screen or is there stored image data from a buffer filling the gap?It depends on the equipment used for the telecine process. Older Telecine convertors moved the film continuously and scanned a line at a time.

Modern telecine systems don't scan the film when it is moving and perform 3:2 (2:3) pulldown during the conversion process from film to video. With these systems there are no "black frames".

See this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine)

Can someone write up a summary of what we know so far about the upcoming 2007 sxrds?

Can someone write up a summary of what we know so far about the upcoming 2007 sxrds?

The replacements for the A2020 series are the A3000's and due in July. The XBR5 will be the replacement for the current XBR2 and is due in October. The A3000 will have 3 HDMi inputs and the XBR5 will have 4. The XBR5 and A3000 will both do 120hz.
The cabinets on both models HAVE BEEN SLIMMED CONSIDERABLY. The A3000 maintains a similar looking bezel. The XBR5 has be redesigned to look more flat panel like:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/Sony2007XBR3.jpg

The replacements for the A2020 series are the A3000's and due in July. The XBR5 will be the replacement for the current XBR2 and is due in October. The A3000 will have 3 HDMi inputs and the XBR5 will have 4. The XBR5 and A3000 will both do 120hz.
The cabinets on both models HAVE BEEN SLIMMED CONSIDERABLY. The A3000 maintains a similar looking bezel. The XBR5 has be redesigned to look more flat panel like:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/Sony2007XBR3.jpg

The original poster should put that in the original post.

I heard picture quality improvments from some can that be comfirmed? That is what I'm most concerned about.

Hello
my first posting in english it isn´t my mother-tongue be indulgent with me.
I have some question about the XBR5 wich kind of lamp used. It think that LED´s are the best way to make a Black Frame Inseration or woud he made the BFI at the panels? Make the XBR5 intermediate Images?

http://ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/1206sonykdsr60xbr2/index4.html

This site appears to indicate you need to manually engage 3:2 pulldown detection, but it does seem to work on the XBR2.
Although tests by Home Theater Mag. (Feb. 2007) indicated the XBR2 will not apply 3:2 pulldown to 1080i sources (only to 480i). However with the new summer/fall 2007 models (A3000 and XBR3), if they use 120Hz. refresh correctly, they will not need to to 3:2 with any source and will simply repeat each frame 5 time for 24 Hz., 4 time for 30 Hz. and 2 times for 60 Hz. source material. So the judder issue should be resolved for both SD and HD material. However, it can be expected that the de-interlacing performance will be better for the XBR3 models for both 480i and 1080i sources.

Is it possible that the slimming down of the cabinet will create new problems/ challenges regarding projection and picture quality?

Is it still 10,000:1 contrast ratio?

Hopefully they'll feel the pressure from Samsung/Mits and do some decent upgrades :-)

For those that are confused with the 120hz and 24fps and 1080P importance please take the time to view this five part article with detailed explanations and graphics to demonstrate all - as I see many misunderstanding and misinterpreting all these factors and if you disagree you can do so with some of the tops in the business that have gone to the trouble of providing this data. :)

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/feature-article-1080p-3-2007-part-1.html

I have a 3 year old 60" XBR950 and am debating a 60" KDS-R60XBR2 as an upgrade. I am aware of some of the technical differences, like 1080p vs 720, etc., but would love to here from those in the know what the "real world" differences are and if they are quantifiable. Of course, the 950 was $5000+ and now the XBR2 is $3K, but that's how it goes. I don't mind spending the $$ to upgrade, but need more than an incremental de minimus benefit.

So--what do the TV gurus have to say?

Thanks in advance!

I have a 3 year old 60" XBR950 and am debating a 60" KDS-R60XBR2 as an upgrade. I am aware of some of the technical differences, like 1080p vs 720, etc., but would love to here from those in the know what the "real world" differences are and if they are quantifiable. Of course, the 950 was $5000+ and now the XBR2 is $3K, but that's how it goes. I don't mind spending the $$ to upgrade, but need more than an incremental de minimus benefit.

So--what do the TV gurus have to say?

Thanks in advance!

Since you are already happy with your TV, it wouldn't make sense to go out and buy an XBR2 right now when the XBR3 or XBR5 or whatever comes out in the next 4-5 months. Also, you should expect more TVs coming out like the Mits Diamond 833 series which had a model last year that kept up with SXRD. Either way, there are many new features coming with this years SXRD that might be huge, specifically the possibility of raw performance increase.

I'm also assuming you'll be using this TV for 3-5+ years. Do yourself a favor and wait.

I was all set to buy a KDS-60A2020, but with the Panasonic plasmas being so cheap now (their 58" 1080p plasma is about the same price as the Sony RPTV, and has received great reviews), I'm wondering if RPTV's are pretty much obsolete.

The only downside to the plasma, as far as I'm aware, would be the reflective screen and the slight possibility of burn in. The advantages would be better contrast, wide viewing angle, no cost of bulbs (half life is something like 30,000 to 60,000 hrs) and of course, size.

Why else would one choose RPTV over flat panel, if prices are now comparable?How do you come up with that price comparison? The 58" Panasonic 1080p plasma lists at $5,500 and the 60" 1080p XBR2 lists at $3,800. The 60" 1080p A2020 only lists for $2,900, slightly more than 1/2 the price of the Panasonic.

Since you are already happy with your TV, it wouldn't make sense to go out and buy an XBR2 right now when the XBR3 or XBR5 or whatever comes out in the next 4-5 months. Also, you should expect more TVs coming out like the Mits Diamond 833 series which had a model last year that kept up with SXRD. Either way, there are many new features coming with this years SXRD that might be huge, specifically the possibility of raw performance increase.

I'm also assuming you'll be using this TV for 3-5+ years. Do yourself a favor and wait.


I ask as I have the opportunity to sell my old set for $1K, thus reducung my cost to about $2k. From what I could see the difference appeared quite noticeable. What I don't like about my current XBR950 is the so-so black levels.

I am, however, intrigued over your comments about the XBR3 line. What is expected and is it based on good facts or just conjecture? Part of the problem is the endless chase over whatever is new. If we wait till the latest & greatest is here we'll never buy anything. Plus, the XBR3 will likely cost far more. Is the differences are incremental it might not be worth, say, another 2K.

Much to ponder here...

The Panasonic I'm looking at is the TH-58PX60U, going for $2,368 on Amazon. This is about the same (street) price as the KDS-60A2020.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-TH-58PX60U-58-Plasma-HDTV/dp/B000F70UY4******sr_1_1/103-2200657-8094246?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1179337180&sr=8-1That is a 720p set (1366 x 768-pixel resolution), the SXRD is 1080p (1920 x 1080).

That is a 720p set (1366 x 768-pixel resolution), the SXRD is 1080p (1920 x 1080).

Oops, a review I read incorrectly said that it was 1080p. I should have checked the specs myself before posting.

Still, I'm wondering if this 58" 720p plasma would be better overall than the 1080p A2020, especially considering that, unless one is sitting close to the set, the difference between the two resolutions is hard if not impossible to see.

No, I think "better overall" would be quite a stretch. The SXRD picture is hard to beat right now, especially compared to a 720p plasma...

The plasma would be thinner, have better viewing angles, and maybe be a little bit brighter.... but that's about it. The SXRD would thoroughly stomp it in every other category... :cool:

Oops, a review I read incorrectly said that it was 1080p. I should have checked the specs myself before posting.

Still, I'm wondering if this 58" 720p plasma would be better overall than the 1080p A2020, especially considering that, unless one is sitting close to the set, the difference between the two resolutions is hard if not impossible to see.

I have that plasma and have not seen it next to the a2020 (but I have seen it) imo the image a plasma makes is very different than a lcos tv. I think there is more to the choice than stats; there is often something of a personal preference. I want one of each b/c sometimes i like the plasma image and sometimes i like a lcos image.

I ask as I have the opportunity to sell my old set for $1K, thus reducung my cost to about $2k. From what I could see the difference appeared quite noticeable. What I don't like about my current XBR950 is the so-so black levels.

I am, however, intrigued over your comments about the XBR3 line. What is expected and is it based on good facts or just conjecture? Part of the problem is the endless chase over whatever is new. If we wait till the latest & greatest is here we'll never buy anything. Plus, the XBR3 will likely cost far more. Is the differences are incremental it might not be worth, say, another 2K.

Much to ponder here...

You can still sell it in a few months, right? Either way, don't worry about pricing because you have the internet. The 70" SXRD has always been around $4-4.25k online + shipping, even when it first came out. Same with the 60" which has always been around $2.5k-2.8K. If you plan on buying in a store, don't, there are a few safe places to buy online.

Also, there have been a few people who have claimed to have talked to Sony reps and have been told there should be substantial picture quality improvements. Also, your buying a TV right when all 2007 models are being released. In the next 5 months you should expect many more TVs to come out.

Mark,

It seems you have already picked which TV you want, but just to add a bit:

You should consider your needs for this television when comparing plasma vs RP

If you plan to say...play videogames- plasma might not be the best bet if you worry about burn in.

While plasma typically does better in viewing rooms with more ambient light than RP, from my viewpoint Sony's SXRD looks much brighter than even many of the plasmas in store where light is abundant.

Also, on the reverse side of the debate, you can always change a lamp when the RP starts to go dim…once the plasma starts to degrade you can do nothing. Put a 4 or 5 year old plasma against a new shelf model and I bet you will be some difference in brightness. With RP, you change the bulb in 4 years and your set is as good as new(this is all assuming you watch about 6 hours of TV a day on average).

Also your 1,000 price difference between the TH-50PZ700U VS 60-A2020 might not be the most realistic comparison. That plasma is only a 50 inch set, if it were 60 inches like the 60-A2020, it would be at least another grand if not more—closer to 5 grand.

Basically, to have the same screen size and features as the 60-A2020 you would be paying double in the plasma market. As far as the 60-A2020 being a great value, remember---

The big difference in terms of picture quality between the 60-A2020 compared to it's more expensive big brother XBR3 is the inclusion of DRC 2.5 processor on the XBR3. The DRC 2.5 processor is important if you are upscaling a lot of sources, but from many reviews I have read it does not make the picture THAT much better over the 60-A2020. The picture capability is exactly the same as far as displaying a picture between the two models--which means it the 60-A2020 is good value.

However, right now almost everything in this world needs to be upscaled to a 1080p from its original source, but in the future one can hope true 1080p sources will start to flourish.

I have that plasma and have not seen it next to the a2020 (but I have seen it) imo the image a plasma makes is very different than a lcos tv. I think there is more to the choice than stats; there is often something of a personal preference. I want one of each b/c sometimes i like the plasma image and sometimes i like a lcos image.Sounds like the old Peter Paul commercial - "Sometimes you fell like a nut, sometimes you don't."

So, if you could only keep one, which would it be?

How long do you guys think it'll be before the prices of flat panels decrease to the point that RPTV's are essentially obsolete? 2 or 3 years? Or will the price differential continue to exist as RPTV prices also decrease?

I'd like this set to last 10 years or so, and I figure an RP will need at least two bulb replacements during that timeframe. A plasma, OTOH would only lose a small amount of brightness over 10 yrs (they're said to last 40,000 - 60,000 hrs before brightness declines 50%). A thousand bucks or two isn't that much of a difference, considering the time I'll be using it over the next decade, especially if the picture is significantly better.


I have that plasma and have not seen it next to the a2020 (but I have seen it) imo the image a plasma makes is very different than a lcos tv. I think there is more to the choice than stats; there is often something of a personal preference. I want one of each b/c sometimes i like the plasma image and sometimes i like a lcos image.

You can still sell it in a few months, right? Either way, don't worry about pricing because you have the internet. The 70" SXRD has always been around $4-4.25k online + shipping, even when it first came out. Same with the 60" which has always been around $2.5k-2.8K. If you plan on buying in a store, don't, there are a few safe places to buy online.

Also, there have been a few people who have claimed to have talked to Sony reps and have been told there should be substantial picture quality improvements. Also, your buying a TV right when all 2007 models are being released. In the next 5 months you should expect many more TVs to come out.


The guy who wants it isn't willing to wait much more than a few weeks, hence my issue and concerns. "Now or never" seems to apply as I am not aware of any real world market for used TV sets. My net out of pocket would be around $1800 +/- which isn't bad at all.

ADDENDUM: I just saw the pics of what the 2007 sets are supposed to look like:
See here: http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25338/date/1177998077

Wow-- Do they look better. Thinner, no dumbo ears and, I hope, even better performing. Perhaps waiting isn't a bad idea. Just need to mull over the whole "now or never" issue......

Perhaps waiting isn't a bad idea. Just need to mull over the whole "now or never" issue......Sell now and buy later. Spend the extra time at the library. ;)

Why no A3000 pics? Especially since the A3000's will be out much sooner than the XBR.

The guy who wants it isn't willing to wait much more than a few weeks, hence my issue and concerns. "Now or never" seems to apply as I am not aware of any real world market for used TV sets. My net out of pocket would be around $1800 +/- which isn't bad at all.

ADDENDUM: I just saw the pics of what the 2007 sets are supposed to look like:
See here: http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25338/date/1177998077

Wow-- Do they look better. Thinner, no dumbo ears and, I hope, even better performing. Perhaps waiting isn't a bad idea. Just need to mull over the whole "now or never" issue......

Just buy something cheap for now, like something used on eBay, then sell it in september/october.

Go buy yourself a really cheap vizio on eBay.

Just buy something cheap for now, like something used on eBay, then sell it in september/october.

Go buy yourself a really cheap vizio on eBay.


I've pretty much decided to wait. Any updated info on when the '07s are expected and cost thereof? If we're only talking a few months then the wait isn't too bad. And, it's not like I don't have a 60" to watch..... Besides, the more I think about it I can stick the old 60" XBR950 in the kids' playroom if need be if I don't sell it. At 6 and 9 they think my old 36" Mitsu CRT is "tiny". That was THE tv to get.....about 13-14 yrs ago. Sigh........ I must be getting old. I remember when 36" was staggeringly big.

In addition to the more slender depth I was intrigued by the tech changes. Can someone w/ more tech savvy than me explain what the changes mean and how significant they are?

Thanks again- Great resources and people on this forum.

Jim

So, if you could only keep one, which would it be?

How long do you guys think it'll be before the prices of flat panels decrease to the point that RPTV's are essentially obsolete? 2 or 3 years? Or will the price differential continue to exist as RPTV prices also decrease?

I'd like this set to last 10 years or so, and I figure an RP will need at least two bulb replacements during that timeframe. A plasma, OTOH would only lose a small amount of brightness over 10 yrs (they're said to last 40,000 - 60,000 hrs before brightness declines 50%). A thousand bucks or two isn't that much of a difference, considering the time I'll be using it over the next decade, especially if the picture is significantly better.

As you said, a plasma would only lose a small amount of brightness over 10 years, something you can easily compensate for if you watch at normal brightness. It really depends on the size I think. I don't think the whole 1080p is a huge deal for some below 60", at least it isn't for me.

If one plays games, plasma has the burn-in issue and not an ideal choice. I no longer can play games (for medical reasons) so it's a non-issue for me. Some say today's plasmas no longer have this issue re: burn-in, but I'd rather assume they do if I was a gamer.

Then there is the power usage issue. Plasmas can suck energy moreso than a RPTV from what I've been told; that might be an issue for some. I don't if the energy savings over the years would pay for the bulbs, I guess it depends where you live.

If I had to give up one, I would definitely give up the RPTV, no question. The wide angle and smoothness of the picture on the plasma are fantastic. The mounting options long-run are also a real benefit also, and the gaming and energy issues are not important to me. When you get new plasmas, the opportunities on where to place the old ones are more numerous than the options on where to place the older RPTV (in the homes I have had personally). I am not trying to bash on RPTVs though, I can't wait for the XBR3!

ADDENDUM: I just saw the pics of what the 2007 sets are supposed to look like:
See here: http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/25338/date/1177998077

Wow-- Do they look better. Thinner, no dumbo ears and, I hope, even better performing. Perhaps waiting isn't a bad idea. Just need to mull over the whole "now or never" issue......

Looks like the XBR will be limited to the Sony Stand (i.e. not flat on the bottom) unless someone does significant modification to an entertainment center. Is this how it appears to others?

Looks like the XBR will be limited to the Sony Stand (i.e. not flat on the bottom) unless someone does significant modification to an entertainment center. Is this how it appears to others?

Haven't tvs in the past come with removable pedestals? As I've seen some tvs list seperate dimensions for with and without pedestal. I would think this would now be the case with Sony since some people will want to put it on a stand and some may want to wall mount it.

How do you think the 60XBR3 (or XBR5..whatever this year's model is) will compare to the Mitsubishi WD-65833? The specs on it sure do sound good. 60", 120Hz, HDMI 1.3, etc.

How do you think the 60XBR3 (or XBR5..whatever this year's model is) will compare to the Mitsubishi WD-65833? The specs on it sure do sound good. 60", 120Hz, HDMI 1.3, etc.

I think these spec's are identical for both new models. It will come down to what satifies your eyes and price.
And maybe what the SONY A3000 looks like. I'm going to try to find that out this weekend by bringing the recently posted photo of the XBR5 to a guy who saw them in Vegas, and find out how the A3000 compares-cabinet wise. He originally told me there wasn't much difference but I'm skeptical of that.

How long do you guys think it'll be before the prices of flat panels decrease to the point that RPTV's are essentially obsolete? 2 or 3 years? Or will the price differential continue to exist as RPTV prices also decrease?


There are new devices in development for creating RPTV images far beyond DLP, LCOS, and LCD. I think RPTVs will be around for many years and will get incredibly better, and without burn-in risk. SED, OLED, and all the other flat panel designs have burin-in issues except for LCD, which really is just a super thin RPTV in a sense, because the light source is projected on the LCD screen.

Mitsubishi is coming out with laser driven RPTVs, and some have said by Christmas 2007. This may or may not be fact. I think with Samsung using LED light sources and Panasonic using microwaved balls of plasma for a light source, every RPTV making is going to have to use a long lasting light source if they wish to sell product. I for one will never buy a Panasonic microwave TV because you cannot contain microwave energy 100%. Microwave pollution is a problem and it does have negative health effects for many people.

IB

I for one will never buy a Panasonic microwave TV because you cannot contain microwave energy 100%. Microwave pollution is a problem and it does have negative health effects for many people.

IB
I don't know, I kind of like the idea. You could cook with and be entertained by the same device.

It gives a new meaning to the phrase "TV Dinner". :D

In the past, thousand of people in Russia became ill due to poorly designed microwave ovens. No one sits in front of a microwave oven all day staring at it. Military pilots have become ill due to exposure to radar on helicopters and have become sensitized so that they now become ill when near weaker civilian microwave sources. Microwaves effect nerve cells, which are very delicate and intricate structures that can be damaged easily. The tremendous use of cell phones and wireless networks is a grand experiment on human brains and nervous systems. We will not know the outcome of this experiment for decades. What effect does a cell phone have on a human brain after 50 years? Early dementia? I don't want yet another source of even stronger microwave energy in my home just to watch TV. Give me a laser or an LED driven unit, even if I have to pay a few bucks more.

IB

Today I asked a few questions of a friend who saw the new SXRD's in Vegas in February. If you saw recent photo's posted on this thread it looks like the XBR5 must be purchased with the stand. When I asked if this was the case, I was told 'probably' not-he understands most people would want to purchase their own stand. It would be a deal breaker for me personally.
He cautioned me to take any current photo's with a grain of salt. SONY could make any change they want prior to release and nothing SONY does would surprise him. As a dealer his experience has been that SONY is very quiet until just before a store can order them.
He did say that the A3000 is not as good looking as the XBR5. He was very impressed with picture quality of both. He said the only difference is that the XBR5 was a little brighter but there is a definite improvment in overall PQ.
So, if you're interested in the SXRD line the only thing to do is wait and see it in the showroom-I don't think we'll know much before that.
I've read that SONY makes an announcement a few months before release so there may be something about the A3000 next month.

Is this still slated for a July release?

Is this still slated for a July release?

They say July-August for the A3000. October release for the XBR5.

They say July-August for the A3000. October release for the XBR5.

To Bad about the Oct. release of the XBR5's..... I would have liked to see them, but they are coming out right in the middle of the Football season!

I would like to have our HD set in place by sept 1st.

:rolleyes:

I'd like to have HD on Aug 31 when the college season begins on ESPN HD. The question becomes do I go for the A3000 55" or wait? Is the XBR5 that much better? How big a difference between 55" and 60" (I know-5 inches) in my viewing space?
Also, the issue of a HiDef dvd player. I'm curious when the new, less expensive BluRay players come out. It would be great to get a TV and DVD player at the same time......especially if a pro calibration is in the plan.

I'd like to have HD on Aug 31 when the college season begins on ESPN HD. The question becomes do I go for the A3000 55" or wait? Is the XBR5 that much better? How big a difference between 55" and 60" (I know-5 inches) in my viewing space?
Also, the issue of a HiDef dvd player. I'm curious when the new, less expensive BluRay players come out. It would be great to get a TV and DVD player at the same time......especially if a pro calibration is in the plan.
there will be a difference between the A series and the XBR series but no one knows how much difference yet.


I personally am going to get an SXRD set and a BR player at the same time. Especially since our HD Cable service isn't great.

Today I asked a few questions of a friend who saw the new SXRD's in Vegas in February. If you saw recent photo's posted on this thread it looks like the XBR5 must be purchased with the stand. When I asked if this was the case, I was told 'probably' not-he understands most people would want to purchase their own stand. It would be a deal breaker for me personally.
He cautioned me to take any current photo's with a grain of salt. SONY could make any change they want prior to release and nothing SONY does would surprise him. As a dealer his experience has been that SONY is very quiet until just before a store can order them.
He did say that the A3000 is not as good looking as the XBR5. He was very impressed with picture quality of both. He said the only difference is that the XBR5 was a little brighter but there is a definite improvment in overall PQ.
So, if you're interested in the SXRD line the only thing to do is wait and see it in the showroom-I don't think we'll know much before that.
I've read that SONY makes an announcement a few months before release so there may be something about the A3000 next month.

I was told that the stand was optional, BUT given the bottom of the set (see photo), I'm not quite sure how Sony will pull it off. Given that Sony doesn't want to lose business from customers that have existing furniture, I feel quite confident that this set will be designed in such a way that it can be used without the pictured stand. At the show, Sony ONLY showed the 60/70" SXRD XBR's on this stand.

Please keep in mind that this was a hand built prototype and the end product could certainly be different.

Incidentally, other than the stand question, I agree 100% with the information above.

Photo is here:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/506/CONVAR289.jpg

I was told that the stand was optional, BUT given the bottom of the set (see photo), I'm not quite sure how Sony will pull it off. Given that Sony doesn't want to lose business from customers that have existing furniture, I feel quite confident that this set will be designed in such a way that it can be used without the pictured stand. At the show, Sony ONLY showed the 60/70" SXRD XBR's on this stand.

Please keep in mind that this was a hand built prototype and the end product could certainly be different.

Incidentally, other than the stand question, I agree 100% with the information above.

Photo is here:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/506/CONVAR289.jpg
Thanks for your photo's-very helpful.

I was told that the stand was optional, BUT given the bottom of the set (see photo), I'm not quite sure how Sony will pull it off.

I'm quite sure that the TVs will come with its stand attached so you can put it on any stand you choose. If you want to put it on the matching stand we see in the photos you will just simply take off the stand it comes with and bolt the new stand in place.

my guess would be the stand comes with the base in the picture. the tv itself will come with a universal base.

How big a difference between 55" and 60" (I know-5 inches) in my viewing space?


The 60" is 5" (~9%) bigger in diagonal measurement than the 55", but it's ~245 sq. in. (~19%) larger in total viewing area (~1293 sq. in. vs. ~1538 sq. in.) Of course, how big a difference that makes in your viewing space depends on you.

HTH

(BTW, the 70" is almost 62% larger in total viewing area than the 55" ;) )

Sonystyle price drop !!!
Now here is a tell tail sign that we are getting close to new models being released :)

sonystyle (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to80TVs&Dept=tvvideo)

Are there any A3000 pics..? i would even like a description.. i just want to see it.. also are there any reports about the overall size of the entire TV. i have limited space to work with.. My 55A2000 fits perfectly into my space.. i am hoping that a 55A3000 will be about the same size.. I am not too worried about depth ( i still have a lot of room to work with.

I'm in the same boat as you. I see all these mits sets being announced and I want some info from Sony. I'm getting close to needing a new set now and I'd like to know when the new ones will be available and how big they'll be, etc. I'm building a new house now and am having a custom cabinet built for my HT system. Dimensions would be very helpful right now.

I think I want the Sony because of side-to-side comparisons from previous years models. Nothing else comes close to the picture quality of the Sony XBR line IMHO. The mits and sammy's just look grainy and oversharpened next to the comparable Sony's.

I'm having the same conundrum with AVR's. I think I want a Denon, but because the HDMI 1.3 Onkyo's are announced, I may end up going with the latter because I need to do the planning before I make my purchases. These companies drive me crazy. They could throw us some sort of bone to whet our appetites. Why don't they do this?

ryarber:

i have a denon, and i love it. i spent alot of time listening to the pioneer elite and
denon 2807 prior to my purchase in 2006. i just love the crispness of the Denon the ease of use.. i would not get too hung up on The HDMI 1.3. i having ben reading reports from others on AVS, and they know alot more about me regarding the HDMI 1.3 and they make it sound like it is no big deal YET.. i think Denon will have a HDMI 1.3 this year..

Sonystyle price drop !!!
Now here is a tell tail sign that we are getting close to new models being released :)

sonystyle (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to80TVs&Dept=tvvideo)
Yup, noticed that yesterday and called this morning to get my price match. :) Its always nice to see a price drop when your still in the window to get $$ back.

We should all use are best searching abilities and search the World Wide Web for a picture of the A3000 and maybe some info on some specs.. this is crazy, we are better than this.. we should be able to find something by now.. Or what the heck make up a picture and tell me that it is an A3000, just to amuse me.

my guess would be the stand comes with the base in the picture. the tv itself will come with a universal base.

Agree, the required stand would be to much of a dealbreaker for alot of people.
I think sony knows this, even samsung if you remember that Kirk star trek model.
I dont think that went over to well ;)

I'm in the same boat as you. I see all these mits sets being announced and I want some info from Sony. I'm getting close to needing a new set now and I'd like to know when the new ones will be available and how big they'll be, etc. I'm building a new house now and am having a custom cabinet built for my HT system. Dimensions would be very helpful right now.

I think I want the Sony because of side-to-side comparisons from previous years models. Nothing else comes close to the picture quality of the Sony XBR line IMHO. The mits and sammy's just look grainy and oversharpened next to the comparable Sony's.

I'm having the same conundrum with AVR's. I think I want a Denon, but because the HDMI 1.3 Onkyo's are announced, I may end up going with the latter because I need to do the planning before I make my purchases. These companies drive me crazy. They could throw us some sort of bone to whet our appetites. Why don't they do this?


Because they have alot of current models to sell. :confused:

We should all use are best searching abilities and search the World Wide Web for a picture of the A3000 and maybe some info on some specs.. this is crazy, we are better than this.. we should be able to find something by now.. Or what the heck make up a picture and tell me that it is an A3000, just to amuse me.

Finally found a pic of the new A3000 direct from Tokyo:
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t043/T043596A.jpg

Actually, i believe this is a side view of the new non XBR SXRD:
http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/sonyline2007/1060488

Actually, i believe this is a side view of the new non XBR SXRD:
http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/sonyline2007/1060488
As much as I wish an A3000 SXRD pic were available, none offered thus-far are genuine. That one below this post from gizmodo is actually a side view of the new 1080p LCD rear-pro set (E2000). Sadly the search/wait continues...

As much as I wish an A3000 SXRD pic were available, none offered thus-far are genuine. That one below this post from gizmodo is actually a side view of the new 1080p LCD rear-pro set (E2000). Sadly the search/wait continues...

Upon further review, you're right. Looks like the first or second week of June will be the time Sony discloses more info.

Finally found a pic of the new A3000 direct from Tokyo:
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t043/T043596A.jpg
WoW look at those knockers - I think those sets were modeled after the 58 Cadillac and that looks more like a Lucky Goldstar IMO as it has Dumbo knockers instead of Dumbo ears. ;)

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t043/T043596A.jpg

News on anything new is so friggin slow on this forum lately it seems as nothing new is debuting this year - very little positives so far have been born from all the hype of CES. My third season of following Sony releases and rare indeed for anything to make it to the web in advance of what Sony wants (like never) no matter how many searches - Google needs to roam the R&D labs.

Hopefully the new SXRD will be a Transformer model and have multiple display uses as a dynamic HT setup versus a static setup and Dumbo free! :)

WoW look at those knockers - I think those sets were modeled after the 58 Cadillac and that looks more like a Lucky Goldstar IMO as it has Dumbo knockers instead of Dumbo ears. ;)

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t043/T043596A.jpg



These must be the new microwave models somebody was talking about. Looks like you could cook a decent size ham in there. Not much room in the stand for A/V components or utensils though.

These must be the new microwave models somebody was talking about. Looks like you could cook a decent size ham in there. Not much room in the stand for A/V components or utensils though.


How many HDMI imputs does this model have.?

If i do one more search on google for (Sony A3000).. an i get a link to a Walkman... i am going to scream......

If i do one more search on google for (Sony A3000).. an i get a link to a Walkman... i am going to scream......
Didn't you hear? As you may have known, people were complaining about the XBR's "dumbo ears", so they did away with speakers altogether with these new lines and now only have adapters that utilize walkmans to display sound. ;) You must of found an insiders webpage through google. :rolleyes:

Its not like were asking alot..............Just a picture! one little picture. i wish sony would just throw us a Freak'n Bone....................

So still just looks like 60 and 70 for XBR5 or anything bigger? If so, I'm thinking a 70XBR5 (which will probably still be 69.5") would be great, with my 60XBR1 getting relegated to bedroom duty. Of course, I would prefer something like a 75XBR5.... 80 is probably pushing the limits of the space I have available, if not the WAF (Warden Acceptance Factor). :D

I found this, but have no clue what it really is (the web site is in moonspeak)

http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/applebrothers/b0bcbc73.jpg

Looks more like the XBR with removeable speakers though.

i hope that is not the A3000, because it is ugly... i want something that looks good...

I found this, but have no clue what it really is (the web site is in moonspeak)

http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/applebrothers/b0bcbc73.jpg

Looks more like the XBR with removeable speakers though.

That's a Qualia, just the stand there weighs 191 pounds, the tv even more. Here's a review and photo way back in 2005:
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/705sony/

I found this, but have no clue what it really is (the web site is in moonspeak)
Looks more like the XBR with removeable speakers though.

That is the venerable Qualia 006. You can check the owner's thread for more details.

I never really noticed before but the qualia 006 somewhat resembles the A2000 with the speakers of the XBR1&2.

Any news on ETA? Getting antsy. kds-50a3000...where areeeee you...I need you. I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to feeeeeeeel your heattttttt next to meeeeeeee. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sony dropped price on their 60" and 70" XBR2 by $500. http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to80TVs&Dept=tvvideo

This means new one is on the way very soon.

Will the new A3000 line with 120 Hz refresh rate do 5:5 pulldown for 24 fps film content ??? I just read an article in Home Theater magazine regarding the lack of proper de-interlacting and proper 3:2 pulldown in many HD sets, and I was surprised when the author made the following statement: "Please note that, although there are numerous 120-Hz LCD panels coming out, none do 5:5 pulldown (24 times 5)."

If this applies to the A3000 as well, it really takes most of the shine off the 120 Hz "upgrade". Why bother going to 120 Hz if the TV still has to perform funky processing to convert 24 fps to 120 Hz, instead of a simple multiplication process ?

Will the new A3000 line with 120 Hz refresh rate do 5:5 pulldown for 24 fps film content ??? I just read an article in Home Theater magazine regarding the lack of proper de-interlacting and proper 3:2 pulldown in many HD sets, and I was surprised when the author made the following statement: "Please note that, although there are numerous 120-Hz LCD panels coming out, none do 5:5 pulldown (24 times 5)."

If this applies to the A3000 as well, it really takes most of the shine off the 120 Hz "upgrade". Why bother going to 120 Hz if the TV still has to perform funky processing to convert 24 fps to 120 Hz, instead of a simple multiplication process ?
I think your argument may be a misinterpretation. You'd be better to pose this question where the experts in Video Processing reside over in that thread section with Ofer LaOr - The mensa group of this forum can be found over in the Video Processing section where the obsessive videophiles take the hobby to the next level. You can find him there or PM him as he's an Editor and author over in the Home Theater Mag and Moderator in the AVS sections in Israel. Good Luck

For more info click my signature block on a five part article on 1080P24.

Will the new A3000 line with 120 Hz refresh rate do 5:5 pulldown for 24 fps film content ??? I just read an article in Home Theater magazine regarding the lack of proper de-interlacting and proper 3:2 pulldown in many HD sets, and I was surprised when the author made the following statement: "Please note that, although there are numerous 120-Hz LCD panels coming out, none do 5:5 pulldown (24 times 5)."

If this applies to the A3000 as well, it really takes most of the shine off the 120 Hz "upgrade". Why bother going to 120 Hz if the TV still has to perform funky processing to convert 24 fps to 120 Hz, instead of a simple multiplication process ?

Not like I have any idea what I'm talking about...but sony is really in to blu-ray, 24fps support, xvYCC, HDMI 1.3, and all that stuff...I'm putting in a bet that these sets will be not fail.

by the way PS3 can now output 1080/24p ( with the new 1.8 update) so its all ready for the new XBR5 :)

by the way PS3 can now output 1080/24p ( with the new 1.8 update) so its all ready for the new XBR5 :)


is that for games only or does it also work for blu ray?

is that for games only or does it also work for blu ray?

no its specifically for blu ray movies, it has nothing to do with games.

What about broadcast tv? Some of it is filmed at 24fps, but it is broadcast at 30fps. Will this tv be able to convert the broadcast back to 24fps.

By the way... Why on earth does anybody film anything in 24fps anyways? Since, to date, everybody's tv is 60hz. Why do they film stuff in a format that has to be perverted to be viewed on people's tv's. That just makes no sense to me.

Rear Projection (50" to 80"): http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=565

What am I supposed to be learning from that link?

What about broadcast tv? Some of it is filmed at 24fps, but it is broadcast at 30fps. Will this tv be able to convert the broadcast back to 24fps.

By the way... Why on earth does anybody film anything in 24fps anyways? Since, to date, everybody's tv is 60hz. Why do they film stuff in a format that has to be perverted to be viewed on people's tv's. That just makes no sense to me.Film came long before TV. You could just as well ask why TV's aren't 24fps.

The frame rate for film was chosen to minimize flicker while not using too much expensive film stock. Early films used various frame rates. That's why some older B&W films flicker or run somewhat fast. Eventually it was standardized at 24fps.

Actually, TV's are 30 frames per second (60 fields, each 1/2 frame). The 30/60 frame rate for TV's was chosen because it coincided with the U.S. power line frequency and therefor cameras and TV's could use the line power signal for sync.

That's also why PAL is 25/50 frame rate. The europeans (and other areas of the world) chose 50Hz for their power frequency.

Does anyone know what the difference will be with the upcoming 3000's and the recently released A2020's? Thanks.

Does anyone know what the difference will be with the upcoming 3000's and the recently released A2020's? Thanks.

We assume the cabinet to be different, 3 HDMI ports, 120hz refresh rate.......
I'm probably leaving something out. Check the second through fourth pages of this thread where you'll find some discussion.
Like you, we're all waiting for the same thing........

That's a Qualia, just the stand there weighs 191 pounds, the tv even more. Here's a review and photo way back in 2005:
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/705sony/
Ah yes, $30,000 too - that must be why it came up in a search for "Sony a3000 SXRD"... :cool:

What am I supposed to be learning from that link?


It states 50-80 inch TVs. Yesterday it said 50-70. I guess one could assume that they are getting their website ready for the new TVs. It has shown 80" in the past so who knows at this point. 80" would be cool. Just a few more week till we have the info. :)

It states 50-80 inch TVs. Yesterday it said 50-70. I guess one could assume that they are getting their website ready for the new TVs. It has shown 80" in the past so who knows at this point. 80" would be cool. Just a few more week till we have the info. :)

As I pointed out in another thread, it has said 50-80 for some time, unless it's switched back and forth. I first noticed it saying 80" on 12/1/06:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...8&&#post9048618

I called sonystyle and of course no one I spoke to had any info; I also emailed but haven't received a response yet. Here's hoping.

So I'm thinking about upgrading my Sony 42WE655 RP LCD to a 50A2020 SXRD. I was in Best Buy tonight looking at one and noticed one or two smudge marks behind the screen. The two marks (about the size of a quarter each) were definitely visible without have to get too close to the TV.

Is this a rare thing in the SXRDs or have folks run into this issue.

So I'm thinking about upgrading my Sony 42WE655 RP LCD to a 50A2020 SXRD. I was in Best Buy tonight looking at one and noticed one or two smudge marks behind the screen. The two marks (about the size of a quarter each) were definitely visible without have to get too close to the TV.

Is this a rare thing in the SXRDs or have folks run into this issue.

That is borderline insane. lol...I'm sorry, if you like the picture go ahead and buy it, something goes wrong, you got a warranty.

Also, I personally haven't heard anything about a2020s and people getting sent a brand new a2020 with smudges.

So I'm thinking about upgrading my Sony 42WE655 RP LCD to a 50A2020 SXRD. I was in Best Buy tonight looking at one and noticed one or two smudge marks behind the screen. The two marks (about the size of a quarter each) were definitely visible without have to get too close to the TV.

Is this a rare thing in the SXRDs or have folks run into this issue.
I believe the primary panel that had a history of smudges were the Samsung DLP's which they serviced when reported and I've seen in the store on some models the past year but I do not recall it to be a historical event reported on SXRD's. :)

Any news on ETA? Getting antsy. kds-50a3000...where areeeee you...I need you. I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to feeeeeeeel your heattttttt next to meeeeeeee. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.




That heat you're feeling is the projection lightbulb next to your ass. Stop spooning your TV. :D

That heat you're feeling is the projection lightbulb next to your ass. Stop spooning your TV. :D

lol hahaha :-p

As I pointed out in another thread, it has said 50-80 for some time, unless it's switched back and forth. I first noticed it saying 80" on 12/1/06:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...8&&#post9048618

I called sonystyle and of course no one I spoke to had any info; I also emailed but haven't received a response yet. Here's hoping.


That whole bit about it saying 80" on their website could possibly be a typo, and should say 70"...

Thought you all might be interested in the attached, if you have not already read these.

Thanks for posting these pdf files. I read them earlier today in another thread.
One thing I noticed was that there appears to be a KDS-60A3000 as well as a KDS-Z60XBR5. I had heard there would not be a 60" A3000. Has this changed or will there be a 60" A3000 model? I am in the market for a 60", so I'd love to be able to choose between two.

Has there been anything mentioned about the new models and reduced start up times? That's one thing I'd like to see improved if possible.

Any news on ETA? Getting antsy. kds-50a3000...where areeeee you...I need you. I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to feeeeeeeel your heattttttt next to meeeeeeee. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Wow. Looks like that green glob might actually be a virus.

i cant open up the pdf.

i cant open up the pdf.
save it to your computer and then you can see it.

Thanks for the pdf. It's great it supports 1080p over component; that was unexpected.

As I pointed out in another thread, it has said 50-80 for some time, unless it's switched back and forth. I first noticed it saying 80" on 12/1/06:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...8&&#post9048618

I called sonystyle and of course no one I spoke to had any info; I also emailed but haven't received a response yet. Here's hoping.

Here's the response I received today; pretty much what I expected them to say:


Thank you for your interest in Sony televisions. At this time, the largest rear projection television available is the 70" Class Grand WEGA XBR series SXRD HDTV. As for future models, Sony Style is not able to disclose upcoming product releases or related information upon request. As soon as announcements regarding new product introductions are made available to the public, they can be found at http://news.sel.sony.com/homepage.adp. You may also visit http://www.sonystyle.com, where the latest product information is often featured on the homepage.

If you would like to speak with a Sony Style sales representative, please call 1-877-865-SONY(7669). A sales representative has the detailed product knowledge to answer any questions you may have, and he/she can also assist you with placing an order through Sony Style.

Thank you for choosing Sony!

Sincerely,

Nick
Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com

Thanks for posting these pdf files. I read them earlier today in another thread.
One thing I noticed was that there appears to be a KDS-60A3000 as well as a KDS-Z60XBR5. I had heard there would not be a 60" A3000. Has this changed or will there be a 60" A3000 model? I am in the market for a 60", so I'd love to be able to choose between two.


As far as I can tell, there aren't many differences between the 60" 3000 and the 60" XBR5.

Here's what I have:

XBR5 has one more HDMI input (4 vs. 3)
XBR5 has one more Composite input (3 vs. 2)
XBR5 has a better Bravia engine: (V2.5 vs. V1.0)

The number of inputs isn't that big of a deal to me, is the upgraded engine going to be significant??

Also noticed that the XBR5 has an RS232C input which the 3000 doesn't. I don't even know what that input is.


The other curious stat is that the XBR5 is about 6" wider than the 3000. Since both have the speaker on the bottom now, could the bezel on the XBR5 be that much thicker?

Thought you all might be interested in the attached, if you have not already read these.

Nettiqute: Rather than repost my attachments without crediting me, you should just insert a hyperlink to my original post....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852928

Nettiquete #2: Instead of starting a new thread regarding the 2007 Sony's, post updated information in the current thread.



PS. What's your local dealers name? Shouldn't he have been given credit?

Nettiquete #2: Instead of starting a new thread regarding the 2007 Sony's, post updated information in the current thread.



PS. What's your local dealers name? Shouldn't he have been given credit?

This thread is titled "when...coming out"...that wasn't the subject of my post-- but detailed technical info on the XBR5 series.

As to the local dealer...he would prefer I not list his name so as not to upset Sony that I posted info he received at a closed dealer presentation. Can't you just be greatful for my taking the time to scan in and assemble the PDFs from the photocopies?

Those attachments aren't working anyway.

Try right clicking on the link and select "Save Target As". Save them to your computer and then open then. That's how I had to do it.
Hope that helps.

Can't you just be greatful for my taking the time to scan in and assemble the PDFs from the photocopies?

Yes, very grateful.

I'm also grateful to the person that posted the info here, because I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. This forum is all about sharing, it just seems a bit petty to complain that you didn't receive credit for the original post. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that's the way it comes across.

Yes, very grateful.

I'm also grateful to the person that posted the info here, because I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. This forum is all about sharing, it just seems a bit petty to complain that you didn't receive credit for the original post. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that's the way it comes across.

I guess you plaigerized in college.

Referencing the original post is a courtesy not a requirement. Furthermore the original poster may likely know more background that the subset that gets posted and conversing with him/her has value.

Since the re-poster had only a single post to their name, I saw some value in advising him on the best way to copy posts for future listings. That's enough going around the merry-go-round with you on this. Follow your own standards if you must. I have better things to do than debate ethics with you.

LOL.

You have no idea what my standards or ethics are.

Would I have given credit if I posted it here? Absolutely.

If someone re-posted something of mine without giving me credit, would I create a post correcting them so that everyone would know the original was mine? Absolutely not. My ego's not that big.

If someone re-posted something of mine without giving me credit, would I create a post correcting them so that everyone would know the original was mine? Absolutely not. My ego's not that big.

Ahh, but it is big enough to correct the correcter though, eh? ;)

Let's get back on topic and find more info about these sweet TV's!

This thread is deteriorating fast with the name calling. I was going to post some exciting new SXRD info but i'm so angry now i'll keep it to myself.

This thread is deteriorating fast with the name calling. I was going to post some exciting new SXRD info but i'm so angry now i'll keep it to myself.

What is the new info? The name calling is limited to just an isolated few.
I am sure I can speak for the rest of us who'd love more info.

This thread is deteriorating fast with the name calling. I was going to post some exciting new SXRD info but i'm so angry now i'll keep it to myself.

What new info do you have? Seriously. I've waited too long for Sony.

Does anyone know if the Theatre Sync (HDMI -CEC) on this TV is interoperable with other manufacturers use of HDMI-CEC (like Panasonics)?

now how much of a diff will the drc upgrade in the xbr5 make over the 3000 series? I thought I had read alot of people using the current xbr2 sets were disabling DRC on them due to poor quality from it. Doesnt the current generation of XBR2 sets use version 2.5 also?

It seems to me that the 3000 series offers all the features of the XBR5 sets (granted slightly less inputs on the 3000 series) and the only real reason to go with a XBR5 would be if you had the desire for a 70" set. I'm still debating over a 60 or 70 at this point , but will be waiting for either of these sets regardless. My daughter thinks a 70 is the way to go (God bless her :) ) but the cold hard reality is if there is a $2k+ diff in price 10" doesnt seem worth it to me (pays for 1/2 a trip to Italy - hmm 10" of TV - Italy - 10" - hmmm

All thoughts and opinions are welcome

Get the 70 and watch Destination: Italy on Blu-ray. :D

I'm hoping for a 75 or so XBR5, but I wouldn't be TOO disapointed in a 70... and I can then relegate my 60XBR1 to use as my computer monitor. :D :D :D Or more likely bedroom duty. :( ;)

well... the gut feeling I have is to go with a 70" and damm the torpedos. LOTR's would look pretty badass on that to say the least hehe. Basement should be all done and ready to go by midsummer so just have to wait till Oct when the XBRs come out. Its a shame they dont have the 3000 series in 70" - I'd jump all over that!

I, too am debating between 60" and 70". A 70" would fit perfectly in my niche in the living room, but a 60" should be plenty. I watch all my movies and major sporting events in my HT on the 126" anyway, so I think 60" should be fine for everyday TV viewing. Will really have to evaluate the differences between the two 60" sets.

[QUOTE=lorelevitt]Nettiqute: Rather than repost my attachments without crediting me, you should just insert a hyperlink to my original post....


So sorry for the faux pas. I could not post the link, or would have. LORELEVITT should be given the credit he deserves
My appologies to the thread for causing such an off-topic discourse.
I too have been waiting for Sony to make a design/feature change before buying the 70" and very much appreciate all the news and insight this thread has provided.

_______________________
"Cogito Ergo Spud"
I Think, therefore I yam

[QUOTE=lorelevitt]Nettiqute: Rather than repost my attachments without crediting me, you should just insert a hyperlink to my original post....


So sorry for the faux pas. I could not post the link, or would have. LORELEVITT should be given the credit he deserves
My appologies to the thread for causing such an off-topic discourse.
I too have been waiting for Sony to make a design/feature change before buying the 70" and very much appreciate all the news and insight this thread has provided.

_______________________
"Cogito Ergo Spud"
I Think, therefore I yam

I wouldn't worry.......it's only a TV. Somebody on this thread had a harsh potty training.

I, too am debating between 60" and 70". A 70" would fit perfectly in my niche in the living room, but a 60" should be plenty. I watch all my movies and major sporting events in my HT on the 126" anyway, so I think 60" should be fine for everyday TV viewing. Will really have to evaluate the differences between the two 60" sets.

I think if you do the math-- and I'm too lazy to do it this late in the day-- that the 70" is about 35-40% larger than the 60". If you think in terms of screen area -- it is much more enticing to go for the 70." Since there is no documentation anywhere in the dealers' lit for size larger than 70, its unlikely we'll see a 75 or 80 in 2007.

Anyone know what type of bulb the 50 A3000 will use?

so, no 80 inch, i guess, 70 4 me so only option is XBR 5

For you guy's who want the 70" SXRD.......how far away will you sit from the screen?

For you guy's who want the 70" SXRD.......how far away will you sit from the screen?

I am sitting 9 - 10 feet. they have a good table of viewing distances : screen sizes at crutchfield.

Does anyone know if the 3000 series offers 1080p@24fps? Also are the SXRD XBR5 and the 3000 series similar in style? Thanks... I think a 60" might be just a tad too big for my room so I'm leaning towards the 50" A3000.

so, no 80 inch, i guess, 70 4 me so only option is XBR 5


Hopefully we will see an 80 inch with the a new SXRD chip by the end of the year...

This thread is deteriorating fast with the name calling. I was going to post some exciting new SXRD info but i'm so angry now i'll keep it to myself.
Cmon now. Despite some stupidity, this is still a good thread and has some great information in it. Just because a few bad apples post, doesn't mean that there aren't other people viewing this thread that genuinely appreciate the information within. Hopefully, you can add your exciting "new SXRD info" and make it an even better thread.

Cmon now. Despite some stupidity, this is still a good thread and has some great information in it. Just because a few bad apples post, doesn't mean that there aren't other people viewing this thread that genuinely appreciate the information within. Hopefully, you can add your exciting "new SXRD info" and make it an even better thread.

Yes, because I really need a tv.

Does anyone know if the 3000 series offers 1080p@24fps?

According to the PDFs posted earlier, it does.

Hopefully we will see an 80 inch with the a new SXRD chip by the end of the year...

Really? I dont want to buy 70 ich for a couple months lol

my question is what light engine will each of the new sets have. as i understand it, the current a2000/a2020 use a different, older light engine than the xbr2s. i have read some posts that indicate the light engine on the a2000 is the same or very similar to the light engines that were being used on the xbr1s when they stopped making them. an entirely new light engine is used on the xbr2s.

the a2000 thread makes it very clear that there is a persistent color uniformity problem in these sets. that problem has not manifested itself in the xbr2s. it was a major factor in my decision to purchase an xbr2 over the a2000.

so do we know what light engines will be in the a3000s and the xbr5s?

Now, the way I see it. And, please correct me if I'm wrong. Since sony is making a point to say that the tv accepts 24fps sources over the inputs, then I'm guessing the only way to watch anything without the judder of 3:2 pull down is to watch something from a 24fps source.

This is upsetting to me (if I'm right), because lots of HD programing is filmed at 24fps but it is broadcast with 3:2 pull down. So this tv won't convert 3:2 pull down to the correct cadence. If this is the case, then that really SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

This is upsetting to me (if I'm right), because lots of HD programing is filmed at 24fps but it is broadcast with 3:2 pull down. So this tv won't convert 3:2 pull down to the correct cadence. If this is the case, then that really SUCKS!!!!!!!!!
Both the majority of Film is shot in 24fps and HD broadcast masters are 24fps and the math matches on a native display doing 1:1.

How can that be wrong? What is there to convert? The TV is doing 120hz and matching the broadcast or feed. All I know is that what I view is crystal friggin clear as a bill on a quality Blu-Ray or HD DVD as it is with HD broadcasts so what's the issue? How in the world could 24fps make things worse - the math is a proof that it can only be BETTER IMO. Do you presently own a native display doing 1080i/p in dot mode from which to evaluate? In my signature block there is a five part serious that explains most of this "The importance of 1080P" You may find it helpful. :confused:

Both the majority of Film is shot in 24fps and HD broadcast masters are 24fps and the math matches on a native display doing 1:1.

How can that be wrong? What is there to convert? The TV is doing 120hz and matching the broadcast or feed. All I know is that what I view is crystal friggin clear as a bill on a quality Blu-Ray or HD DVD as it is with HD broadcasts so what's the issue? How in the world could 24fps make things worse - the math is a proof that it can only be BETTER IMO. Do you presently own a native display doing 1080i/p in dot mode from which to evaluate? In my signature block there is a five part serious that explains most of this "The importance of 1080P" You may find it helpful.

It isn't a question of a clear picture. It is about the judder. Yes, each frame is crystal clear, but if each frame is not shown for the same amount of time the movement of the picture seems jerky.

Just because the tv runs at 120hz does not mean it will automatically show everything that was filmed at 24fps in the correct cadence. It will if the source is broadcasting it at 24fps, but DVD players and HD broadcast stations (as I understand it) convert the 24fps content into a 3:2 cadence before they send it to your tv. This is because, until recently, everybody's tv runs at 60hz and cannot display 24fps without the 3:2 cadence. So since the DVD player or the HD broadcast station is sending it to you already converted into 3:2, then your tv must now convert it back from 3:2 to the correct cadence of 1:1. What I'm afraid of is that these tv's aren't capable of detecting this and performing the proper conversion, thus, rendering the 120hz completely useless unless you are feeding the tv a pure 24fps source that has not been already converted.

I want a 75 but an 80 would be preferable to a 70.... 70 would be nice, though. :)

It isn't a question of a clear picture. It is about the judder. Yes, each frame is crystal clear, but if each frame is not shown for the same amount of time the movement of the picture seems jerky.

Just because the tv runs at 120hz does not mean it will automatically show everything that was filmed at 24fps in the correct cadence. It will if the source is broadcasting it at 24fps, but DVD players and HD broadcast stations (as I understand it) convert the 24fps content into a 3:2 cadence before they send it to your tv. This is because, until recently, everybody's tv runs at 60hz and cannot display 24fps without the 3:2 cadence. So since the DVD player or the HD broadcast station is sending it to you already converted into 3:2, then your tv must now convert it back from 3:2 to the correct cadence of 1:1. What I'm afraid of is that these tv's aren't capable of detecting this and performing the proper conversion, thus, rendering the 120hz completely useless unless you are feeding the tv a pure 24fps source that has not been already converted.

OK, after that, then can someone please answer this simple question . . . would these new sets with the 120Hz actually be WORSE with sources other than a pure 24p source? (i.e., regular HD and SD broadcasts, regular DVDs', and HD DVDs) I would hope that any such "improvements" in the new sets wouldn't create WORSE performance in those situations than the older sets.

OK, after that, then can someone please answer this simple question . . . would these new sets with the 120Hz actually be WORSE with sources other than a pure 24p source? (i.e., regular HD and SD broadcasts, regular DVDs', and HD DVDs) I would hope that any such "improvements" in the new sets wouldn't create WORSE performance in those situations than the older sets.

Don't see how it could make things worse. The tv would only be displaying an identical image twice in the same amount of time it would take a 60hz display to show it once.

Seems that it would eliminate judder in "pure" sources or do nothing at all to feeds that were spitting out the 3:2.

I assumed it would be "up to" 120Hz

I went out to circuit city tonight to see what the new Samsungs looked like, and hoped to also take in a new Mitsubishi while I was there. Even after a year, these sets have still not caught up to Sony in overall PQ. Even if these sets didn't pack any improvements at all, they'd still be the best looking rear projection sets in the store.

I don't know one whit about 120Hz and 3:2 pulldown or 5:5 pulldown. I guess that has some significance and I hope they get that stuff worked out. All I know is the old Sony sets still rock and I can't wait til the new ones come out.

I assumed it would be "up to" 120HzI doubt it. It's much simpler to run the display continuously at 120Hz and let the rest of the circuitry decide how often to repeat each frame.

...yeah, I don't know of -any- LCDs that "multisync", as it were, to different refresh rates... the panel works at native res/native refresh, and the scaler and other circuitry adjusts accordingly....

no?

Now, the way I see it. And, please correct me if I'm wrong. Since sony is making a point to say that the tv accepts 24fps sources over the inputs, then I'm guessing the only way to watch anything without the judder of 3:2 pull down is to watch something from a 24fps source.

I don't know understand why you're guessing that. Of course it's going to accept a 24 Hz source. It's a simple way of avoiding a lot of processing, and Sony builds 24 Hz source devices, so why wouldn't it? People would surely complain if it did not.

And that really says nothing about what it does with a 60 Hz 3:2 source. Nobody knows what it will do until it comes out, or Sony says something.

Can anyone dig up a picture of A3000..... we just wnat to see. i will worry about the guts of the TV after i get a good look at the design..

it looks like they are coming out in august according to this press release
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,118518.shtml

here it is directly from sony.
http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/release/30504.html

here it is directly from sony.
http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/release/30504.html
Thank you for the posting and with Pic's now with verifiable proof that the doubting Thomas's were wrong. It looks like you must buy the the Stand with the TV unless they have some other way of setup and surprised they give you multiple choice colors of speaker grill, I do like the black and nice slimdown-this is the 70". :)

http://news.sel.sony.com/images/medium/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/KDS_Z60_70XBR5_STAND_FRONT_med.jpghttp://news.sel.sony.com/images/medium/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/KDS-Z60_70XBR5_Profile_Left_med.jpghttp://news.sel.sony.com/images/medium/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/KDS_Z60_70XBR5_STAND_RIGHT_med.jpg

And so ends this thread. :p

Seriously tho; that's one handsome television, but what's the deal with that stand? Does it come with the set or what? I'm wondering if it has fans on the bottom like the show models as well.

I love the way the tv looks as well...but god I hate the stand lol

i can't imagine they would sell a tv with no built in method of standing up. it probably comes with something that is removable and replaceable with this. i like it with stand although at the show the stand was black not silver and i think it looked better.

That's the XBR 70". No pictures of the A3000 yet?

A3000 models feature Sony’s BRAVIA Engine™ EX full digital video processing system with Digital Reality Creation-Multifunction v1.0. The technology up-converts all non-HD signal to 1080i,Uh, what? 1080... i ?? It has a 1080i display mode? Or is that a typo.

(The XBR models say 1080p)

When high-definition signals are available, however, all of the models feature 1080p input capability via HDMI, component, and PC inputs (with supporting PC graphics cards) for an outstanding picture. Additionally, the HD component and HDMI inputs are compatible with both 1080/60p and 1080/24p sources. PC input does 1080p :D :D Excellent.

here it is directly from sony.
http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/release/30504.html

So the new 50A3000 is expected to list at $3000, huh? It remains to be seen if the new model is over $1000 better than the 50A2020. And it seems this $3000 price is a big risk by Sony in this size since similar size plasmas may price not too much higher. One reason I am considering a 50-inch SXRD is the bigger bang-for-the-buck over 50-inch plasmas. Maybe not any longer if this price holds true.

1080p plasma?

720p plasmas are dime-a-dozen.
1080p plasmas are .... not.

So the new 50A3000 is expected to list at $3000, huh? It remains to be seen if the new model is over $1000 better than the 50A2020. And it seems this $3000 price is a big risk by Sony in this size since similar size plasmas may price not too much higher. One reason I am considering a 50-inch SXRD is the bigger bang-for-the-buck over 50-inch plasmas. Maybe not any longer if this price holds true.


Yeah, that 3500 for 60 inches is making me pause. I was just in a Circuit City a few hours ago, & checked out a 60' A2020. It was more than a 1000 bucks less than the forthcoming A3000.

I don't know if 24fps & expanded color palette is worth that to me. The good thing though is they are finally announced.

Maybe a mod should change this thread title.

Barring some unknown degrade in picture quality resulting from being 40% slimmer...I am a 100% LOCK to get the 70" XBR.

1080p plasma?

720p plasmas are dime-a-dozen.
1080p plasmas are .... not.

But is there a huge difference between 1080p and 720p (or 1080i) with the 50-inch size? Maybe somewhat better PQ with 1080p, but 720p Panasonic 50-inch plasmas go for under $3000. Again, if this price is true, it seems the attraction of a 50-inch SXRD may have lost some luster.

So the only differences between the 60" A3000 and XBR5 SXRDs are the scaler and appearance/depth, or do the XBRs use a more powerful lamp too? If it's just cosmetic differences, the A3000 + a 3rd-party external video processor (if needed) sounds like the way to go.

So the new 50A3000 is expected to list at $3000, huh? It remains to be seen if the new model is over $1000 better than the 50A2020. And it seems this $3000 price is a big risk by Sony in this size since similar size plasmas may price not too much higher. One reason I am considering a 50-inch SXRD is the bigger bang-for-the-buck over 50-inch plasmas. Maybe not any longer if this price holds true.

The initial press release pricing last year was considerably higher for all models vs actual initial store pricing. No big risk here as when the lower the pricing at release everyone will think they are getting a great deal.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/sony-tvs-ahoy%21/sonys-new-70-sxrd-rear-projection-its-thin-its-floaty-its-smooth-266672.php


"
1. Motionflow 120Hz - By taking a source video of 60 frames per second, and interpolating frames between each one, the motion looks smoother and less dizzying during lots of motion or hardcore camera pans. (They did a side-by-side demo which was quite awesome.)

2. Photo Mode - Video is all about sharpness, but when a still image is displayed super sharp, it looks kinda weird. Photo Mode takes photos and smooths them out without losing the detail. It is also a feature found on many of the other models.

3. Live Color - Since most of the SXRD and LCD models can handle broader color gamuts than their source video, the video processors themselves enhance the color of source material. In a perfect world, source color would be as good as the capability of the TV, but until then, this is what works.

"

Here is a picture of the A3000 TV with the red speaker grill.

As the one who started this thread, I am glad we finally have concrete news. :D


Engadget has some additional info here:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/06/sony-updates-sxrd-line-with-five-new-sets/

In looking at the pricing, I am concerned as the others here are about the price differential between the main line and the XBR line. 3500 bucks for the KDS-60A3000 but 5k for the KDS-Z60XBR5 ??? The XBR's styling is awesome, but it's not worth an extra 1500 bucks. The other difference is the 1080i Bravia EX scaler on the main line and the XBR's have the 1080p scaler. I've read enough flame war threads about the negligable difference between 1080p and 1080i to know that this feature ain't worth the extra 1500 bucks either.

I'm thinking a 500 dollar price difference would be more appropriate to differentiate the XBR line.



Also, that tv stand is causing me some concern. I hope to god there is a way to buy the XBR without that stand because many people already have some sort of shelf or entertainment center for their tv's and that stand is completely incompatable with that.

Ok, I took a closer look at the Gizmodo article and it states that the tv stand for the XBR will sell for 600 bucks, so obviously it is detachable....

Here are all the rear projectors side by side. XBR on the far left, A3000 on the right.

Ok, I took a closer look at the Gizmodo article and it states that the tv stand for the XBR will sell for 600 bucks, so obviously it is detachable....

It will most definitely come with its own stand. You can detach it and put on the optional $600 stand if you choose. So dont worry it will go on any stand/ entertainment center you choose.

It will most definitely come with its own stand. You can detach it and put on the optional $600 stand if you choose. So dont worry it will go on any stand/ entertainment center you choose.



Well, I am in the interesting situation where I am in the middle of remodeling my home right now, so I think the 60 in. XBR is the way to go. I just need to figure out what the included stand looks like and what the measurements are so I know how to design my entertainment center around it.

Does the XBR5 still have picture by picture?

Does the XBR5 still have picture by picture?

I would say NO. Many manufactures have been getting rid of this feature. But you never know. The user manuel will come out about 30 days before they release the product. I would say around August. It will have all the answers we will ever need.

Okay, great, we've got some information...... Now, how long is it going to take for us to get actual dimensions of these TV's?

I need to know specifically the overall width of the KDS-Z60XBR5 :cool:

Okay, great, we've got some information...... Now, how long is it going to take for us to get actual dimensions of these TV's?

I need to know specifically the overall width of the KDS-Z60XBR5 :cool:

59.25 in

59.25 in

was that in a release and I missed it? where did you get that?

it's a pdf someone got from dealer, it posted in either this one or the other thread.

I would say NO. Many manufactures have been getting rid of this feature. But you never know. The user manuel will come out about 30 days before they release the product. I would say around August. It will have all the answers we will ever need.

Yes it does look like PBP is dying although it was one of the few features that clearly seperated the XBR3 from the A3000 series. I hope Sony still keeps it around, if not I'll be looking for an XBR3 at a really good price.

Due to the way my video distribution system is set up, it would be hard for me to live without some type of PiP (Occasionally need to check the PiP, to see what the kids are watching in the other room of the house - and it's great for checking the external video cameras as well, without having to interrupt the show we're watching)

huh, thanks for pointing to the PDF, I had missed the second one....

68.43"x42.95"x14.65"

The initial press release pricing last year was considerably higher for all models vs actual initial store pricing. No big risk here as when the lower the pricing at release everyone will think they are getting a great deal.

True. I'm hearing $500-800 less than the pricing announced today. Still too much for the XBR's either way. With rear projection predicted to tank I'm surprised they are raising prices on these sets. The picture quality will have to be MUCH noticibly improved over XBR2 and the A3000......or why spring for it?
That XBR stand could be the new 'dumbo ears' of this years SONY line

True. I'm hearing $500-800 less than the pricing announced today. Still too much for the XBR's either way. With rear projection predicted to tank I'm surprised they are raising prices on these sets. The picture quality will have to be MUCH noticibly improved over XBR2 and the A3000......or why spring for it?
That XBR stand could be the new 'dumbo ears' of this years SONY line



Huh? That stand is gorgeous. And it's removable and it's something you have to buy as an extra add-on, so I don't see how you could compare them to the dumbo ears. The dumbo ear speakers were panned because they looked ugly. That speaker stand is nice as hell. It just may not be right for everyone. For example, I probably can't use it but I think it really makes the tv look like a flatscreen.

Huh? That stand is gorgeous. And it's removable and it's something you have to buy as an extra add-on, so I don't see how you could compare them to the dumbo ears. The dumbo ear speakers were panned because they looked ugly. That speaker stand is nice as hell. It just may not be right for everyone. For example, I probably can't use it but I think it really makes the tv look like a flatscreen.


i agree that the stand looks beautiful. So does the xbr5 ship without any stand whatsoever? Does it need to be wall mounted out of the box?

A3000 models feature Sony’s BRAVIA Engine™ EX full digital video processing system with Digital Reality Creation-Multifunction v1.0. The technology up-converts all non-HD signal to 1080i...

Is this a good or bad thing?

I understand the A3000 sets will feature 1080p resolution but I don't understand the A3000 scaler about up-converting non-HD signal to 1080i.. Can anyone dumb it down to layman's terms? Thanks.

i agree that the stand looks beautiful. So does the xbr5 ship without any stand whatsoever? Does it need to be wall mounted out of the box?


That's the $6000 question, for me at least. I WANT it to be wall mount-able, even if I have to get a special heavy duty mount.

-B

The initial press release pricing last year was considerably higher for all models vs actual initial store pricing. No big risk here as when the lower the pricing at release everyone will think they are getting a great deal.

I would expect the 50"A3000 to retail at stores around $2699 at the outset and the 55"A3000 around $2999.

Here are all the rear projectors side by side. XBR on the far left, A3000 on the right.

Do we know which TV's have the speakers on the bottom and which have the dumbo ears?

I've been following this thread for quite some time, and I've been checking it for this announcement on a daily basis. Additionally, I've been waiting, as has everyone, for this day to come where we had both pics & prices! I've been focusing on the 50A3000 model particularly as that is my most desirable choice. I have a PS3 (aka blu-ray) and I will be in the market for a good tv to do it justice (again, not going for originality points in this post), as I already have my 3lcd 42A10 sold. I have to say that the 3000 series looks fantastic (both literally and in the specs). I'm a little stretched by the price though, even if it does sell initially at $2700 instead of a full $3000, and as much as I would love to put that set in my living room, can anyone at this point give me a solid argument that would support going with either the 50E3000 3lcd or the 50A2020 instead in order to save almost a third in cash, or would it be ultimately worth it to max out and go with this new model. Obviously it would be awesome, and ultimately worth it as far as cosmetics and future-proof aspects go, but we're talking about an extra grand here! I'm open to suggestions/advice as I'm relatively new to these forums. I'm happy at the very least that we can all finally take a peek at these gorgeous new sets and start practically evaluating our potential future purchases. The frustration & impatience that was steadily growing on this thread has finally been vindicated, for better or worse. Hopefully everyone here can smile and appreciate that, even if they were disappointed with the results. Thanks again in advance for the advice, and I'm glad to be a part of these incredibly helpful, sometimes insightful, sometimes downright entertaining, but always passionate forums.

As the one who started this thread, I am glad we finally have concrete news. :D


Engadget has some additional info here:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/06/sony-updates-sxrd-line-with-five-new-sets/

In looking at the pricing, I am concerned as the others here are about the price differential between the main line and the XBR line. 3500 bucks for the KDS-60A3000 but 5k for the KDS-Z60XBR5 ??? The XBR's styling is awesome, but it's not worth an extra 1500 bucks. The other difference is the 1080i Bravia EX scaler on the main line and the XBR's have the 1080p scaler. I've read enough flame war threads about the negligable difference between 1080p and 1080i to know that this feature ain't worth the extra 1500 bucks either.

I'm thinking a 500 dollar price difference would be more appropriate to differentiate the XBR line.



Also, that tv stand is causing me some concern. I hope to god there is a way to buy the XBR without that stand because many people already have some sort of shelf or entertainment center for their tv's and that stand is completely incompatable with that.


The more I find out about these sets at this price premium (I'm a total sony fanboy at that), the better an heavily discounted A2020 is looking to me.

Maybe the thinking is start of with a super high MSRP then when you actually buy the set, one can haggle to make it seem better than it is?

I wonder if the PS3 not really pulling its wieght has any thing to do with this. Profits by other means?

I've been following this thread for quite some time, and I've been checking it for this announcement on a daily basis. Additionally, I've been waiting, as has everyone, for this day to come where we had both pics & prices! I've been focusing on the 50A3000 model particularly as that is my most desirable choice. I have a PS3 (aka blu-ray) and I will be in the market for a good tv to do it justice (again, not going for originality points in this post), as I already have my 3lcd 42A10 sold. I have to say that the 3000 series looks fantastic (both literally and in the specs). I'm a little stretched by the price though, even if it does sell initially at $2700 instead of a full $3000, and as much as I would love to put that set in my living room, can anyone at this point give me a solid argument that would support going with either the 50E3000 3lcd or the 50A2020 instead in order to save almost a third in cash, or would it be ultimately worth it to max out and go with this new model. Obviously it would be awesome, and ultimately worth it as far as cosmetics and future-proof aspects go, but we're talking about an extra grand here! I'm open to suggestions/advice as I'm relatively new to these forums. I'm happy at the very least that we can all finally take a peek at these gorgeous new sets and start practically evaluating our potential future purchases. The frustration & impatience that was steadily growing on this thread has finally been vindicated, for better or worse. Hopefully everyone here can smile and appreciate that, even if they were disappointed with the results. Thanks again in advance for the advice, and I'm glad to be a part of these incredibly helpful, sometimes insightful, sometimes downright entertaining, but always passionate forums.


Cody are you my secret twin borther!?! :D I too, have a 42A10 & was awaitng the release of the A3000 line with baited breath. I too am now having a hard time on not just getting a A2020. Wow. Vuja-De or something :)

I have a 42A10 that will be 2 years old in August and am eagerly awaiting the then new Sonys also. As you guys know the a10 has just one HDMI input.
But I am mostly looking for more pic performance so I haven't really considered the 2000s or 2020s. probably not that much better than the A10.

For those who are concerned over the announced prices, you might feel a bit better if you recall the history of last year's announcement.

Prices announced in the June 1, 2006 A2000 & XBR2 SXRD press release: (http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/release/22354.html)

70" XBR2 $7800
60" XBR2 $5300
60" A2000 $4500
55" A2000 $4000
50" A2000 $3500

If I recall correctly:

The actual price of the 70" XBR2 when first released ~August 21 was ~$7000 (a $800 price drop from the initial announcement) and its MSRP dropped to $6000 a very short time later (a $1800 price drop).

The 60" XBR2 was released at ~$4500 and quickly dropped further.

The 60A2000 was released at ~$3750 in mid-July and had a price cut by September.

The 55A2000 was released at ~$3500 MSRP which soon fell.

The 50A2000 was released at ~ $2800? and like the others soon had the price decrease.

The displays were still expensive when released, but not as expensive as initially announced. I'd bet that the actual release MSRP's will be lower than the initially announced prices, but we'll see.

You can read the official Sony press release with the complete announcement and pricing. Sorry I can't post the URL (not allowed until after 5 postings). I'm sure someone on this thread knows the URL and can post it.

You can read the official Sony press release with the complete announcement and pricing. Sorry I can't post the URL (not allowed until after 5 postings). I'm sure someone on this thread knows the URL and can post it.


These threads go by pretty quickly sometimes, eh barsand? HDTVRookie posted that link in this thread yesterday in post #680.

HTH

I've been following this thread for quite some time, and I've been checking it for this announcement on a daily basis. Additionally, I've been waiting, as has everyone, for this day to come where we had both pics & prices! I've been focusing on the 50A3000 model particularly as that is my most desirable choice. I have a PS3 (aka blu-ray) and I will be in the market for a good tv to do it justice (again, not going for originality points in this post), as I already have my 3lcd 42A10 sold. I have to say that the 3000 series looks fantastic (both literally and in the specs). I'm a little stretched by the price though, even if it does sell initially at $2700 instead of a full $3000, and as much as I would love to put that set in my living room, can anyone at this point give me a solid argument that would support going with either the 50E3000 3lcd or the 50A2020 instead in order to save almost a third in cash, or would it be ultimately worth it to max out and go with this new model. Obviously it would be awesome, and ultimately worth it as far as cosmetics and future-proof aspects go, but we're talking about an extra grand here! I'm open to suggestions/advice as I'm relatively new to these forums. I'm happy at the very least that we can all finally take a peek at these gorgeous new sets and start practically evaluating our potential future purchases. The frustration & impatience that was steadily growing on this thread has finally been vindicated, for better or worse. Hopefully everyone here can smile and appreciate that, even if they were disappointed with the results. Thanks again in advance for the advice, and I'm glad to be a part of these incredibly helpful, sometimes insightful, sometimes downright entertaining, but always passionate forums. If by 'max out' you mean your credit cards then the answer is no. No piece of electronics is worth maxing out your credit cards for. And as far as 'future-proof' that's not much of an argument either. There will always be something newer, better, faster, more powerful etc. etc. just around the block after you've committed to a purchase. That's just the way technology is.

Huh? That stand is gorgeous. And it's removable and it's something you have to buy as an extra add-on, so I don't see how you could compare them to the dumbo ears. The dumbo ear speakers were panned because they looked ugly. That speaker stand is nice as hell. It just may not be right for everyone. For example, I probably can't use it but I think it really makes the tv look like a flatscreen.

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. I think the new stand and stalk are ugly as sin. I would much rather have the tv set upon the nice cherry cabinet I have my HP currently on:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9455705&&#post9455705

The 50"A3000
http://www.engadget.com/media/2007/06/sony-kds-50-front.jpg

Is this a good or bad thing?

I understand the A3000 sets will feature 1080p resolution but I don't understand the A3000 scaler about up-converting non-HD signal to 1080i.. Can anyone dumb it down to layman's terms? Thanks.
It doesn't make any sense. The DRC will upconvert 480i to 1080i... but then (something) has to convert it to 1080p, unless the SXRD chip has an interlaced display mode??

may be already posted ........but


http://www.twice.com/article/CA6449899.html

For those who are concerned over the announced prices, you might feel a bit better if you recall the history of last year's announcement.

Prices announced in the June 1, 2006 A2000 & XBR2 SXRD press release: (http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_grand_wega/release/22354.html)

70" XBR2 $7800
60" XBR2 $5300
60" A2000 $4500
55" A2000 $4000
50" A2000 $3500

If I recall correctly:

The actual price of the 70" XBR2 when first released ~August 21 was ~$7000 (a $800 price drop from the initial announcement) and its MSRP dropped to $6000 a very short time later (a $1800 price drop).

The 60" XBR2 was released at ~$4500 and quickly dropped further.

The 60A2000 was released at ~$3750 in mid-July and had a price cut by September.

The 55A2000 was released at ~$3500 MSRP which soon fell.

The 50A2000 was released at ~ $2800? and like the others soon had the price decrease.

The displays were still expensive when released, but not as expensive as initially announced. I'd bet that the actual release MSRP's will be lower than the initially announced prices, but we'll see.




Ahhh, that's what I was just going to ask: a historical perspective to past price drops when last years models came out. So looking at this year's release prices:

KDS-50A3000 $3,000
KDS-55A3000 $3,300
KDS-60A3000 $3,500

KDS-Z60XBR5 $5,000
KDS-Z70XBR5 $6,000


I think it's reasonable to think that those prices will be somewhere along the lines of a 10% price cut at release time. That would still make the KDS-Z60XBR5 around $4500 bucks, which is still way too high. I'm thinking that it will drop down to around $3200 bucks by the time Superbowl season rolls around.....

The 50A2000 was 2700-2800 (street) when it was first released.
By Sept/Oct it was going for 2300-2400 at major retail outlets, and less at deep discount places (online). When it was discontinued (and replaced by the 2020) it was going for as little as 1700 (which btw the 50A2020 can now be had for...)

So yes I don't expect the 50A3000 to retail for 3000. Probably more like 2800.

It does look like Panasonic has or is going to release a 50" 1080p plasma for around 3500 (and mabye 2800 street) but I don't see that as a problem, they are very different technologies aimed at different types of consumers, I think.

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. I think the new stand and stalk are ugly as sin.

In my mind, the design is not beautiful but it is practical. Sony has created a nice space for the center speaker positioned just below the image.

KDS-50A3000 $3,000
KDS-55A3000 $3,300
KDS-60A3000 $3,500

KDS-Z60XBR5 $5,000
KDS-Z70XBR5 $6,000




Sony is on crack, I certainly won't be buying a Sony at these prices. The 60" A3000 needs to start below $2800 if they actually want to sell any of these.

HL-T 61" Samsung is avail for just over $2k. $1000 difference is huge.

It'll be interesting to see what vanns and ******* have 'em at. When are they actually hitting the street?

Barring some unknown degrade in picture quality resulting from being 40% slimmer...I am a 100% LOCK to get the 70" XBR.

THis is the one I will be looking at, ass well. I am anxious to replace my 60" SXRD I got a couple of years ago. Also, add me to the group that is not crazy about the stand.

The 50A2000 was 2700-2800 (street) when it was first released.
By Sept/Oct it was going for 2300-2400 at major retail outlets, and less at deep discount places (online). When it was discontinued (and replaced by the 2020) it was going for as little as 1700 (which btw the 50A2020 can now be had for...)

So yes I don't expect the 50A3000 to retail for 3000. Probably more like 2800.

It does look like Panasonic has or is going to release a 50" 1080p plasma for around 3500 (and mabye 2800 street) but I don't see that as a problem, they are very different technologies aimed at different types of consumers, I think.

I was pretty set on getting an A3000, but now I hear that Pioneer's 2008 models are supposed to be "amazing," with black levels that are just as black as its bezel. I'm giving it serious consideration. But, I don't know if the IR/burn-in will be worth the supposed picture quality improvements.

In my mind, the design is not beautiful but it is practical. Sony has created a nice space for the center speaker positioned just below the image.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Is there anyway to figure out how much height there is right there?

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Is there anyway to figure out how much height there is right there?

Probably we'll have to wait for Sony's documentation on the beast.

well i don't want to pre-judge these sets before they're available for testing, but it doesn't seem they will be a huge improvement over what's available now with the xbr2s and the a2020s.

the sets seem to have the exact same guts as current models. same light engines, panels, sxrd chips, and drc chips. i wouldn't expect to see much improvement in pq compared to the sets currently available. while the 120mz refresh and 60p and 24p inputs are welcome improvements, i don't think they'll significantly improve pq except on best source materials (hd dvd and blu ray).

the real changes are more directed at cosmetics and new user options. while the slimmed down depths and flat panel appearance and stand are nice, they don't really give you much over the current models. i still need to store my 18-20" a/v receiver, hd dvd player, and stb somewhere near the set. until the sizes of these shrink they will still be taking up the same amount of footage from the wall as the current sets. the photo player and add on internet access are nice gadgets but hardly options that would motivate me to trade my xbr2 for the new models.

the prices are the real surprise. even assuming that the sets are marked down from the prices listed by sony, the 60xbr5s will probably initially sell for at least $5000 while the 60xbr2 initially sold for $4500. this is a price increase for the next generation model which seems to be in conflict with the other manufacturers decreasing prices on next gen models. for example the 60 xbr2s were $500.00 - 1000.00 less than the initial list price on the 60xbr1s. the high prices on the smaller models also puts them near the same price range of the new similarly sized 1080p plasmas

so far it seems to me that you'd be better off buying a sharply discounted xbr2 or a2020 and save the money unless you place a premium on the appearance of your set. unless the reviews of these sets prove me wrong, i will remain happy with my 60xbr2 purchased for $2800 last year.

Cody are you my secret twin borther!?! :D I too, have a 42A10 & was awaitng the release of the A3000 line with baited breath. I too am now having a hard time on not just getting a A2020. Wow. Vuja-De or something :)

Wow indeed, although I kinda figured I wasn't the only one in this specific scenario. Now that the 'secret' is out about me being your twin ;), maybe we can help each other to make the best decision in the coming months. I have to say, as tempted as I am to just grab a 2020 (far sooner and for much cheaper), I fear that once the 3000 series is out I'll regret not waiting and ponying up every time I see one in a store. We'll see I guess...

I think the 70" looks awesome... even like the stand since I'll need one anyways.

However, at $6000 + whatever the stand costs, I think I'll probably end up buying a discounted 70" XBR2 instead and using the extra money to upgrade to HD-DVD/BR and a new HDMI capable receiver.

The 1080p PC input, and 24hz(120hz) to a lesser extent, is what is probably going to sell me on the new models.

Still I'm not rushing into it until the prices come down a little. When you can get a 50A2020 for welllll under 2k... paying closer to 3k doesn't make much sense... but when it comes down to more like 2400... oh yeah.

I think I'll probably end up buying a discounted 70" XBR2 instead and using the extra money to upgrade to HD-DVD/BR and a new HDMI capable receiver.
If your in Los Angeles and need a stand for that 70XBR2 send me a PM. ;)

Barring some unknown degrade in picture quality resulting from being 40% slimmer...I am a 100% LOCK to get the 70" XBR.

Has everyone seen the new S&V review of the Slim HD-ILA? It seems the mirror is creating distortion in the geometry causing "bending of image near screen edge".

What a shame it will be if the new slim sonys suffer from this as well...

Has everyone seen the new S&V review of the Slim HD-ILA? It seems the mirror is creating distortion in the geometry causing "bending of image near screen edge".

What a shame it will be if the new slim sonys suffer from this as well...

That's true, but JVC was more aggressive with slimming down their sets than Sony was. Hopefully it won't be a problem.

Do the current A2020's upscale to 1080p? I'm kind of surprised that the A3000's only upscale to 1080i.
I have a PS3 which is already 1080p, but my DirecTV HR20 would only be 1080i. I was hoping to have this upscaled.

Maybe it won't matter because my goal is to feed it through a 1080p upconverting receiver...but still.

Is this scalar a step back?

One thing I think everyone is overlooking in the price of these new sets is the video processing. If it will upscale everything to 1080i, that is a big deal, especially for those that use regular cable without the blasted box.

It also is a big deal for those who were considering buying video processors or upscaling receivers for their home theater systems. The money that you can save by not having to buy a receiver that does the upscaling can be the difference between this set and the A2020 models.

I'd like to hear more about this upscaling. I'd like to see what kind of quality you can get from SD cable. Has anyone seen them in action yet to tell us about this? Does it upscale from any input, eg. coax, component, s-video, HDMI, etc.?

They said that the A3000 series will be 20% thinner than last years models. Does that mean 20% smaller than the A2020 or the A2000?

They mention their video processor and it kind of sounds like the video processor will enhance not only the image resolution, but color as well to create a xvYCC color where there isn't any from the input. Am I reading too much into that?

One thing I think everyone is overlooking in the price of these new sets is the video processing. If it will upscale everything to 1080i, that is a big deal, especially for those that use regular cable without the blasted box.


This is where I'm confused. I thought last years models upscaled everything to 1080p?? Only going to 1080i seems a step backwards.

What did the 2005/2006 models do to get the signals to 1080p?

I could be wrong, but I thought last years models just performed deinterlacing. ie. 1080i in would result in 1080p. 480i would result in 480p. No actual upscaling takes place.

Do the current A2020's upscale to 1080p? I'm kind of surprised that the A3000's only upscale to 1080i . . . Is this scalar a step back?I think there is little doubt that the A3000 will scale all incoming signals to 1080p; that will be its native display mode (and no other). What Sony must be alluding to is that the scaler/deinterlacer in the XBR5 is superior to the scaler/deinterlacer in the A3000. Think of it as if you were sending a 480p feed from a progressive DVD player to a native 1080p display that would upscale via a Genesis Faroudja DCDi chip vs a native 1080p display that would upscale via a Silicon Optics Reon/Realta chip (of course, since Sony uses their own proprietary deinterlacing/scaling circuitry, this is only an analogy, and a mighty poor one, at that). However the way Sony is presenting/marketing this seems to be a little whacko (at least to me) in that it implies that the final deinterlacing step in the A3000 is inferior to the XBR5's; which could be somewhat worrisome (however that may not really be the final step, at all, in terms of the video processing circuitry). You video-upscaler/deinterlacer experts among us please feel free to correct my sophomoric interpretations.

I really think this is all somewhat of a jacked-up way of saying the video-processing in the XBR5 is supposed to be better (and prolly is -- but worth $1500+ more???) than the A3000's processing. As for me, right now, I'm firmly in the A3000's camp (60"), until swayed otherwise (although that 70" XBR5 does look mighty sweet :D). All this from a devoted Samsung-o-phile! :rolleyes:

- da Choge in Dallas

The 50"A3000[pic]Hey, Walk -- thanks for posting that [pic] in the format you did; my appreciation (and thinkin', "I'm finally going to get this one") for the new Sony A3000 (prolly in the 60" iteration) just grew in leaps 'n bounds !!! Its looks are great and I'm hoping that this Sony will finally interface well with an HTPC (that's what has kept me in the Samsung camp for so long).

-da Choge in Dallas

All things new at Sony (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644486278&parentCategoryId=)

60A3000 can be found at the bottom of page one
55, & 50 are top of page two...

It isn't a question of a clear picture. It is about the judder. Yes, each frame is crystal clear, but if each frame is not shown for the same amount of time the movement of the picture seems jerky.

Just because the tv runs at 120hz does not mean it will automatically show everything that was filmed at 24fps in the correct cadence. It will if the source is broadcasting it at 24fps, but DVD players and HD broadcast stations (as I understand it) convert the 24fps content into a 3:2 cadence before they send it to your tv. This is because, until recently, everybody's tv runs at 60hz and cannot display 24fps without the 3:2 cadence. So since the DVD player or the HD broadcast station is sending it to you already converted into 3:2, then your tv must now convert it back from 3:2 to the correct cadence of 1:1. What I'm afraid of is that these tv's aren't capable of detecting this and performing the proper conversion, thus, rendering the 120hz completely useless unless you are feeding the tv a pure 24fps source that has not been already converted.

In the specs for this set, it says it features Cinemotion Reverse 3:2 pulldown. I don't know if this addresses your issues.