I've had my eye on Sony's SXRD tv's for quite a while and have been holding off on getting one for 2 reasons:

-I want them to fix that darn "Green Blob" issue I keep hearing about.
-I want one that has HDMI 1.3


I didn't hear any news about the 2007 models during CES. Does anybody know when the 2007 models are coming out? Will they use laser light engines? Will they have HDMI 1.3?

Sony recently put the A2020 series on their site, for shipment mid-March. On their web page, the specifications are identical, but it's entirely possible there are some changes "under the hood." These may or may not incorporate HDMI 1.3.

If you want their true "next generation" SXRD, you'll have to wait until July/August for the XBR3. Sony will issue some preliminary details on these models later in the week, with further details in May.

I've had my eye on Sony's SXRD tv's for quite a while and have been holding off on getting one for 2 reasons:

-I want them to fix that darn "Green Blob" issue I keep hearing about.
-I want one that has HDMI 1.3


I didn't hear any news about the 2007 models during CES. Does anybody know when the 2007 models are coming out? Will they use laser light engines? Will they have HDMI 1.3?

What "green blob" issue?
The XBR2's and A2000's have no such issue!!!!!!!!!

What "green blob" issue?
The XBR2's and A2000's have no such issue!!!!!!!!!



Ahaha, I know I'm a newbie on this forum but even my sarcasm detectors caught that one.
:)

Ahaha, I know I'm a newbie on this forum but even my sarcasm detectors caught that one.
:)
Sorry, it wasn't meant to be sarcastic. Many people tend to throw that term around. The original green blob was seen with the xbr1 not the new models.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be sarcastic. Many people tend to throw that term around. The original green blob was seen with the xbr1 not the new models.


Really? I read that there was a class-action lawsuit filed by A2000 owners over the whole "green blob" issue. I haven't heard about it on the XBR2's, but it seems that everyone is talking about the issue being *very* prevalent on the A2000's.....

What "green blob" issue?
The XBR2's and A2000's have no such issue!!!!!!!!!

WRONG! I certainly have tint issues with my A-2000 as do others on the forum. Where did you come up with the idea that A-2000 is problem free? I am awaiting a new optical block at the moment to hopefully fix blue, and magenta tints in black, and green and magenta tints on grey screen. I cannot vouch for whether or not the XBR2 is free of these issues.

WRONG! I certainly have tint issues with my A-2000 as do others on the forum. Where did you come up with the idea that A-2000 is problem free? I am awaiting a new optical block at the moment to hopefully fix blue, and magenta tints in black, and green and magenta tints on grey screen. I cannot vouch for whether or not the XBR2 is free of these issues.

Maybe tint issues but not GREEN BLOB. Read my posts.

Maybe tint issues but not GREEN BLOB. Read my posts.




Here's a link to the class-action lawsuit A2000 owners are filing against Sony for the green blob / green haze issue.


http://www.breakitdownblog.com/2006/08/19/class-action-lawsuit-against-sony-for-green-haze-or-green-blob-sxrd-problem/

Someone thinks there is a problem with the green blob on the A2000.

Here's a link to the class-action lawsuit A2000 owners are filing against Sony for the green blob / green haze issue.


http://www.breakitdownblog.com/2006/08/19/class-action-lawsuit-against-sony-for-green-haze-or-green-blob-sxrd-problem/


The law suit is for xbr1 not A2000! Show me the suit that lists the A2000?

http://www.sonysxrdtvclassaction.com/main/home.sfx

For all we know that blog site was setup by the same trolls readily found here!

I've been following the XBR2 owners thread and the tweeks thread from inception and haven't seen any indication of the green blob.

The law suit is for xbr1 not A2000! Show me the suit that lists the A2000?

http://www.sonysxrdtvclassaction.com/main/home.sfx

For all we know that blog site was setup by the same trolls readily found here!


You actually think someone went through the trouble to set up a blog to FOOL people into thinking there is a problem on a certain tv model?

There are TONS of sites out there discussing the green blob problem on the A2000's! Heck there are tons of threads on AVS that talk about it.


If even 1% of that is true, why the heck would I buy an A2000 with that kind of risk?



I don't know what kind of agenda you're on, but please don't hijack my thread with your nonsense. This thread was originally supposed to be about the upcoming 2007 SXRD models.

I don't know what kind of agenda you're on, but please don't hijack my thread with your nonsense. This thread was originally supposed to be about the upcoming 2007 SXRD models.

I think you're being unfair. No one owns a thread, they wander off in whatever direction they will. It's not him who has an agenda. There have been one or more blatant lying trolls trying to trash all Sony LCoS models, and he's trying to set the record straight.

I don't own a Sony HDTV but I do value truth and I think he's right.

You actually think someone went through the trouble to set up a blog to FOOL people into thinking there is a problem on a certain tv model?

There are TONS of sites out there discussing the green blob problem on the A2000's! Heck there are tons of threads on AVS that talk about it.


If even 1% of that is true, why the heck would I buy an A2000 with that kind of risk?



I don't know what kind of agenda you're on, but please don't hijack my thread with your nonsense. This thread was originally supposed to be about the upcoming 2007 SXRD models.

Your an idiot! Your the troll thats getting off track and cant even see in your own link that clearly says the xbr1 models are the one with the blob problem, not the current ones as none have been validated like the others.

Anyone that thinks that all green and purple tint abnormalities have been totally eliminated from all SXRD sets is crazy.

They are far less prevalent now than in the past but they do still exist in different degrees among different sets of the same models.

Some have it worse than others and some don't have it.

Anyone who claims to know the exact number and extent of such tint abnormalities in terms of prevalence and extent is lying.

Perfection has not yet been achieved. How much that bothers each person and how willing they are to either live with imperfection OR take a chance that they'll be lucky enough to purchase an SXRD set that is perfect is a question that each consumer has to make--the answers to that question will vary.

Your an idiot! Your the troll thats getting off track and cant even see in your own link that clearly says the xbr1 models are the one with the blob problem, not the current ones as none have been validated like the others.


The link I provided clearly says at the top that the lawsuit includes owners of A2000 models. I haven't been on this forum long, but it sounds like this topic has come up for discussion before. I have no idea why there would be "sides" to this issue. Either the problem exists or it doesn't. It's not like any of us own stock in Sony or their competitors.

I don't know about a 'green blob' issue because I don't own one of these sets (I've been looking to upgrade my Sony 3lcd rear-pro for a while now and this is definitely a candidate).

But to answer the question originally posted, the new SXRD's are available for pre-order over at sonystyle with a release date of March 15 posted. They look exactly like the '06 models except that they're mostly black instead of silver/grey/black with the teal strip in the middle. Now that strip is silver and the rest of the t.v. is black (at least it appears so), even the back.

Hopefully that answers the question and hopefully this years line isn't smeared with 'green blob' issues or other such problems, true or false, because I would definitely like to buy a television with confidence at some point in my life and not just the hopeful but hesitant feeling that I've felt in years past. One can hope at least!

You actually think someone went through the trouble to set up a blog to FOOL people into thinking there is a problem on a certain tv model?

There are TONS of sites out there discussing the green blob problem on the A2000's! Heck there are tons of threads on AVS that talk about it.


If even 1% of that is true, why the heck would I buy an A2000 with that kind of risk?

I don't know what kind of agenda you're on, but please don't hijack my thread with your nonsense. This thread was originally supposed to be about the upcoming 2007 SXRD models.

There is a class action lawsuit being filed, but it is for owners of the XBR1, not the A2000. I have an A2000 with color uniformity issues, so I can assure everyone that the green blob has not been completely eliminated. Based on reports, however, it seems to be less prevalent than with the XBR1.

Thanks guys. So we don't have confirmation on how prevalant the "green blob" issue is on the A2000's, but it sounds like a refresh model is on the way already.

I think I'm gonna hold off for the new models later in August. I'm really hoping the new ones have HDMI 1.3 and are the "slim SXRD's" with the laser light engine. Hopefully that redesign will get rid of the whole optical block/green blob issue once and for all. Although for all we know the new stuff will have its own set of problems.

Man, what has happened to Sony over the years? Their stuff used to be so great. I currently own a Sony 36 inch XBR WEGA CRT, and I love it. I'll probably still keep that tv around after I buy my HDTV if I can find room for it....

Thanks guys. So we don't have confirmation on how prevalant the "green blob" issue is on the A2000's, but it sounds like a refresh model is on the way already.

I think I'm gonna hold off for the new models later in August. I'm really hoping the new ones have HDMI 1.3 and are the "slim SXRD's" with the laser light engine. Hopefully that redesign will get rid of the whole optical block/green blob issue once and for all. Although for all we know the new stuff will have its own set of problems.

Man, what has happened to Sony over the years? Their stuff used to be so great. I currently own a Sony 36 inch XBR WEGA CRT, and I love it. I'll probably still keep that tv around after I buy my HDTV if I can find room for it....By "refresh model" are you referring to the upcoming A2020? If so, I think you'll find that the only sure difference is the cabinet color, we don't know if it will include a better OB than the A2000. Given that the A2000 has been available for about 9 months you would think Sony would have improved the OB by now for this newer model, just like they apparently did for the XBR2.

I've had my eye on Sony's SXRD tv's for quite a while and have been holding off on getting one for 2 reasons:

-I want them to fix that darn "Green Blob" issue I keep hearing about.
-I want one that has HDMI 1.3


I didn't hear any news about the 2007 models during CES. Does anybody know when the 2007 models are coming out? Will they use laser light engines? Will they have HDMI 1.3?

From what I've read, the laser light engines are not likely to hit the streets this year as they are still at the prototype level.

I am also hoping the green blob issue is solved as this (and a weak bank account) is what is keeping me from buying one of the SXRDs. I do like the picture the best for RPs so I'm really hoping this becomes a non-issue.

The A2020 doesn't sound like much of an upgrade over the A2000. What are the improvements of the XBR3 over the XBR2?

i cant believe I'm reading a thread about next generation sets. i promised myself after following all the XBR1 , a2000 and xbr2 threads from inception and finally deciding on and purchasing the xbr2 that i would not follow a thread about a new model. but i just cant help myself. i think I'm addicted. my wife will kill me if i decide i want a different TV. :eek:

By "refresh model" are you referring to the upcoming A2020? If so, I think you'll find that the only sure difference is the cabinet color, we don't know if it will include a better OB than the A2000. Given that the A2000 has been available for about 9 months you would think Sony would have improved the OB by now for this newer model, just like they apparently did for the XBR2.


Yeah, I just went on the Sonystyle website and they have the new A2020 model on the tv front page. But in looking at the spec's, I can't tell if there were any upgrades done. The spec's don't mention which version of HDMI is utilized.


My hunch is that this new A2020 model was released precisely to fix the whole green blob /optical block issue. Why else would you release a new model with no other discernable improvements? Why release a new model with just a different cosmetic trim?

Here's the link to the new A2020:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to80TVs&ProductSKU=KDS60A2020

Yeah, I just went on the Sonystyle website and they have the new A2020 model on the tv front page. But in looking at the spec's, I can't tell if there were any upgrades done. The spec's don't mention which version of HDMI is utilized.


My hunch is that this new A2020 model was released precisely to fix the whole green blob /optical block issue. Why else would you release a new model with no other discernable improvements? Why release a new model with just a different cosmetic trim?

Here's the link to the new A2020:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to80TVs&ProductSKU=KDS60A2020A cosmetic only difference is not unknown. After all, Sony have released the KDLxxXBR2 and KDLxxXBR3 LCD TVs and the only difference between them is the bezel (and remote) color (with the Black carrying a $300 price premium). So it may be that Sony, after seeing where the competition such as Samsung, Mitsubishi and JVC are going with Black TVs that they also need to offer a Black cabinet to be competitive. We may even discover soon that this year's XBR3 SXRDs will be Black.

Look at the S2000 LCD's that came out earlier this year. Now its the S2010 which is the same tv just in black. I can see why they would change the current models do not look good

First post, plz be gentle. I'm getting a KDS-55A2020 this summer. I WAS getting the A2000, but I love the black cabinet. I'm optimistic that they have at least tweaked the new models for the green blob issue. Anyhow, I've read more good than bad reviews on the A2000's, I'm taking the plunge.

The link I provided clearly says at the top that the lawsuit includes owners of A2000 models. I haven't been on this forum long, but it sounds like this topic has come up for discussion before. I have no idea why there would be "sides" to this issue. Either the problem exists or it doesn't. It's not like any of us own stock in Sony or their competitors.

You are not reading the actual lawsuit. Keep clicking the links and you will get to the class action suit. It is for $5,000,000.00 and it is only for the XBR1's. Sure some people have problems with the other SXRD tv's. Just like there are a few problems with any other set manufactured. There is no tv on the market that has 100% quality control and a 100% perfect product all of the time and there never will be.

Is this really necessary? You are posting the same stuff in several threads. If you don't like Sony, that's fine. But these posts are annoying. Could you add anything helpful?

Thanks

Almost sounds like he is soliciting those users that are having aproblem to stand up and become a part of a class action lawsuit. AS*****. If Sony is neglible, thats one thing, but for ignorant basterds like this poster, all he can do is recommended that people try the Mits out. So since this is a Sony thread, go back under that rock where you came from. I actually think the Mits stinks!

We all know Sony, we know there may be inheritant problems with their current designs. Thats why we are hoping for new models that will address issues. But we don't need this smack talk... If you don't like what our thread is about, take
you crap and postings and go another forum.. TROLL!! :mad:

Subscribing

I'm interested in the new model info. Hopefully this thread will get back to that topic :rolleyes:

I've had my eye on Sony's SXRD tv's for quite a while and have been holding off on getting one for 2 reasons:

-I want them to fix that darn "Green Blob" issue I keep hearing about.
-I want one that has HDMI 1.3


could I be so bold as to add a third?

SIZE !!!!!

I want the new set to be around 73-75 inches.

So from what some other users are saying there was some sort of Sony Dealer show this weekend? I haven't heard any news reports about that. I sure hope we don't have to wait until the July-Aug timeframe to get news.

Why else would you release a new model with no other discernable improvements? Why release a new model with just a different cosmetic trim? You obviously don't understand standard marketing practices. Look at vehicles for an example. Many model years have few or no discernable differences from year to year.

So when this week is Sonys new TV line up press confrence?

So when this week is Sonys new TV line up press confrence?Sony doesn't typically make such public statements or announcements before May.

I saw the KDS 55A2020 on ******* indicating that it is availible now.

See Below:

http://www.*******.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=87151

could I be so bold as to add a third?

SIZE !!!!!

I want the new set to be around 73-75 inches.

OK...NOW we're talkin' !!! :D

So from what some other users are saying there was some sort of Sony Dealer show this weekend? I haven't heard any news reports about that. I sure hope we don't have to wait until the July-Aug timeframe to get news.

I'm anticipating it will take that long. And I'm hoping it will be worth it.

All talk about new Sony XBRs and no news makes jack a dull boy
All talk about new Sony XBRs and no news makes jack a dull boy
All talk about new Sony XBRs and no news makes jack a dull boy
All talk about new Sony XBRs and no news makes jack a dull boy
All talk about new Sony XBRs and no news makes jack a dull boy
All talk about new Sony XBRs and no news makes jack a dull boy

=-)

OK...NOW we're talkin' !!! :D

I'm hoping for an 80"! C'mon, they are making all these HUGE plasmas! SXRD has to keep up!

You obviously don't understand standard marketing practices. Look at vehicles for an example. Many model years have few or no discernable differences from year to year.


Yeah, but I'm hoping at the very very least they redesigned the optical block that is causing all of the green-tint/green blob issues everyone keeps talking about.


You know....the SXRD's are so thick you'd think they'd be able to integreate a DVR into the cabinet somehow. Now that would be cool....and a good justification for getting a thick form-factor tv.....

You obviously don't understand standard marketing practices. Look at vehicles for an example. Many model years have few or no discernable differences from year to year.

That might be true, but they don't make the same TV for over 3 years in a row...the XBR1, KDS-2000, XBR2, and KDS-2020 all have the same picture quality, I can guarentee they will not do that for another year, it doesn't give anyone any justification to upgrade...


also I've read in a multiple places about 120hz, engine updates, and picture quality improvments...judging that this has been incorporated in the new 70" LCD makes it even more plausable.

ask UMR or one of the other calibrators on the board if they feel the 70XBR2 has the "same picture quality" as any of the other models you mentioned...

some info is out.
on the "E" series, and "H" series too
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=812029

and from Sony
http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/3lcd/release/28475.html

I've figured it out...

we need to get a spy in to Sony to figure out when the release date is of this blasted ****ing XBR3.

Anyone willing?

I've figured it out...

we need to get a spy in to Sony to figure out when the release date is of this blasted ****ing XBR3.July/August

I've had my eye on Sony's SXRD tv's for quite a while and have been holding off on getting one for 2 reasons:

-I want them to fix that darn "Green Blob" issue I keep hearing about.
-I want one that has HDMI 1.3


I didn't hear any news about the 2007 models during CES. Does anybody know when the 2007 models are coming out? Will they use laser light engines? Will they have HDMI 1.3?

I did here from the Sony rep at CES. Models out in July/August. Completely redesigned cabinet, improved electronics, HDMI 1.3, no LED. He stressed that it would be worth the wait.

Cheers

I did here from the Sony rep at CES. Models out in July/August. Completely redesigned cabinet, improved electronics, HDMI 1.3, no LED. He stressed that it would be worth the wait.

Cheers
Sweet!

I did here from the Sony rep at CES. Models out in July/August. Completely redesigned cabinet, improved electronics, HDMI 1.3, no LED. He stressed that it would be worth the wait.

Did he indicate that would be the XBR3, the A3000 or both, having those upgrades?

aarrrggh. I'm not hearing about anything bigger than 70", though I guess there's still hope. I don't buy sets often, so if I buy a 70" I don't want an 80" announced next Feb! So I either take my chances and buy in the fall, or wait another year! But if there's nothing bigger announced next year, I think I'll have to just buy; can only wait so long!

aarrrggh. I'm not hearing about anything bigger than 70", though I guess there's still hope. I don't buy sets often, so if I buy a 70" I don't want an 80" announced next Feb! So I either take my chances and buy in the fall, or wait another year! But if there's nothing bigger announced next year, I think I'll have to just buy; can only wait so long!

I'm from the school of thought that for TV's bigger is not necessarily better. I can't stand a crappy picture on a huge screen. Its like blaring your music on 2" diameter speakers. I would rather not listen to it. I think that a TV should be bought with a specific room in mind. I'm looking at getting a new RPTV, but will be relocating soon so I'm waiting on the TV purchase. I don't want to have a TV that is too big for the future room (ie I'll be sitting too close and I'll be able to see all of the material flaws). I think the size of a RPTV should be determined with the worst case source material in mind. Unless you'll be watching 100% DVD, HD, BD, or HDDVD, you should think about what your crappy cable/satelite feed will look like on your monster set. The TV may look better turned off!!!

If you'll be watching your new TV in the same room you are now, carefully consider whether you need a bigger set or not. You may be better off with the set you already have.

just my two cents....

Peace.

I wanted to wait to see the new lineup of sxrd's, but I bit the bullet around the superbowl and got the a2000 for about $2k.

Hope I don't start having any color issues, although I did get CC's most expensive warranty, I'd hate for the family to have any downtime without a nice tv to watch. But then again, alot of green blob wners are getting replacement sets 1+ year down the road.....hmmmmmm....

Over in the LCD forum, some guy posted a list of upcoming TV's from his job:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813334

I see the A3000 series is in there for August.

Green blob definitely exists in the the A2000. I own one. However, it's not so bad. I love my TV. I read countless articles, reviews and forum entries before buying my TV and I don't regret the purchase one bit.

The blob appears a little off center, to the right when the TV is first turned on. It slowly fades away and disappears completely within 45 minutes. Plus, it's really only noticeable during B&W movies (not good) or when the screen is completely black (who really cares). I've solved the issue by watching B&W movies after the TV has had time to warm up.

I did here from the Sony rep at CES. Models out in July/August. Completely redesigned cabinet, improved electronics, HDMI 1.3, no LED. He stressed that it would be worth the wait.
What sizes will the SXRDs be?

Over in the LCD forum, some guy posted a list of upcoming TV's from his job:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813334

I see the A3000 series is in there for August.

This confirms the news I received today from a buyer who was at the SONY show in Las Vegas.
It's a good news/bad news thing-depending on what you wanted. These are rear projection by the way. You can take this info to the bank.......
Good news:
The SXRD XBR's have HDMI 1.3 and 120hz-very nice refresh rate!
They have a whole new cabinet design and they are slim....12" to be exact. I was told that unless you were standing next to the set "you'd think it was a plasma".
They apparently have a "glass-like" frame similar to the SONY XBR3 LCD's. He said the TV and the picture quality are really beautiful. He saw some PS3 on the set and some Blu-Ray and I can tell you he had a great deal of enthusiasm in his voice. He was extremely impressed with the picture quality. It hits the stores in October.
Now the bad news, for me anyway.....
It comes in only two sizes: 60" and 70". I know some have expressed a desire for larger sizes and some hoped for smaller options. Sixty inches is too big for me. I will sit 9.5 feet away and it will dwarf the long narrow room it would sit in.
So I'll never own one of these sets but I strongly advise those of you who can fit one these things in a room to wait....it will be worth it.
I must say I'm perplexed. I've been throwing my money at SONY's best for 20 years. I'm uncertain why smaller options aren't available for those of us who need them. What's the marketing strategy here? Did they make this decision before or during happy hour? :mad: And what's with the A3000 series only months after the A2020 series is released?
What the hell is the A3000 series going to be anyway? I could settle for one of those but why would I?
So, I'll be looking at PIO's new 1080p plasma this summer....assuming it fits in the house of course.
Again, it's worth waiting for so be patient. You'll get the set during football season and just before the Holiday's.......that's perfect. Oh, and I guess the cheaper Blu ray player is pretty nice as well.
Have a blast!

The SXRD XBR's have HDMI 1.3 and 120hz-very nice refresh rate!
They have a whole new cabinet design and they are slim....12" to be exact. . . And what's with the A3000 series only months after the A2020 series is released?
What the hell is the A3000 series going to be anyway? I could settle for one of those but why would I?

Will there be any way to find out before the summer if the A3000 series will also have HDMI 1.3 and the 120Hz refresh rate, or the slim cabinets like the XBRs?

Will there be any way to find out before the summer if the A3000 series will also have HDMI 1.3 and the 120Hz refresh rate, or the slim cabinets like the XBRs?

That's why I'm scratching my head about this. If the A3000 had all those features as well what would be the difference between the two? So, reason would tell me that the A3000 will lack some or all of those features. Or, maybe the XBR3 will have more HDMI ports.

Maybe XBR3's have a bottle opener on the side........who knows.

The A2020 have been out for a couple of weeks now. Some retailers already have them on the floor and a couple of people here on AVS have even reported buying them and having em in their own homes. Supposedly, they have EXACTLY the same electronics inside, just a new/different color cabinet.

I don't know if you consider A2020 "2007" models, but there you go.

The A3000 models won't be out until Summer/Fall(?) Rumors are they will have HDMI 1.3.

120hz means one thing and one thing alone......computerrrrr monitor...1920x1,080 @ 120hz & 2.5ms will be the best computer monitor on the market not forgetting to mention the best picture quality annnd although expensive, not the most expensive by far...wooo hooo

With finally having picture quality updates, and maybe a glass black XBR3 lcd look, HDMI 1.3, 120hz, no green blob...will this be one of the most anticipated TVs ever? and is it really wise waiting until October...that means they are one of the last people to release new 2007 TVs...?



any news on updates to DRC multifunction..? still going to be DRC v2.5?

120hz means one thing and one thing alone......computerrrrr monitor...1920x1,080 @ 120hz & 2.5ms will be the best computer monitor on the market not forgetting to mention the best picture quality annnd although expensive, not the most expensive by far...wooo hooo

With finally having picture quality updates, and maybe a glass black XBR3 lcd look, HDMI 1.3, 120hz, no green blob...will this be one of the most anticipated TVs ever? and is it really wise waiting until October...that means they are one of the last people to release new 2007 TVs...?



any news on updates to DRC multifunction..? still going to be DRC v2.5?

Not exactly. A 120Hz display allows 24 fps film-based material to be displayed without 3:2 cadence judder. What's more 30 & 60 fps video can also be shown without motion artifiacts. This is possible since 120 is divisible by 24, 30, and 60 to yield whole numbers. 120Hz will offer a large improvement in PQ with 24 fps film-based material.

See more here: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/TempRate.mspx

That's why I'm scratching my head about this. If the A3000 had all those features as well what would be the difference between the two? So, reason would tell me that the A3000 will lack some or all of those features. Or, maybe the XBR3 will have more HDMI ports.

Maybe XBR3's have a bottle opener on the side........who knows.

If the the thread in the LCD forum is accurate then the A3000 sets will only be 50" and 55" leaving the 60" and 70" exclusive to the XBR3 line.

LCOS 50" SXRD KDS50A3000 54626 54607 AB AUG 1080

LCOS 55" SXRD KDS55A3000 54686 54617 AB AUG 1080

LCOS 60" SXRD XBR KDSR60XBR3 54636 TBD AB OCT 1080

LCOS 70" SXRD XBRKDSR70XBR2 KDSR70XBR3 TBD A OCT 1080

With finally having picture quality updates, and maybe a glass black XBR3 lcd look, HDMI 1.3, 120hz, no green blob...will this be one of the most anticipated TVs ever? and is it really wise waiting until October...that means they are one of the last people to release new 2007 TVs...?

I think this Tv will be much anticipated. Word is just getting out about it now.....I wouldn't be surprised if it had the 2.5DRC capacity. By October buyers will be pretty anxious to get these things in their homes. With Blu-Ray prices dropping significantly by the end of the year SONY will be having a bright Holiday season.

What are the chances that Sony will sell an 80-inch SXRD by the end of 2007?

Will there be any way to find out before the summer if the A3000 series will also have HDMI 1.3 and the 120Hz refresh rate, or the slim cabinets like the XBRs?

If their new 3LCD line will have 120Hz, I can't imagine why this wouldn't be included in the SXRD A3000 series also. The 3LCD don't have HDMI 1.3 so I'm hoping that, plus the SXRD panels is the 'up-grade' from their new 1080p 3LCD sets.

What are the chances that Sony will sell an 80-inch SXRD by the end of 2007?

I don't think that's going to happen either. I was told today only a 60" or 70" if you want an XBR.
Didn't they have a 55" slimline prototype at CES last year?
That's what caught my eye and I thought for sure that would happen this year.

This confirms the news I received today from a buyer who was at the SONY show in Las Vegas.
It's a good news/bad news thing-depending on what you wanted. These are rear projection by the way. You can take this info to the bank.......
Good news:
The SXRD XBR's have HDMI 1.3 and 120hz-very nice refresh rate!
They have a whole new cabinet design and they are slim....12" to be exact. I was told that unless you were standing next to the set "you'd think it was a plasma".
They apparently have a "glass-like" frame similar to the SONY XBR3 LCD's. He said the TV and the picture quality are really beautiful. He saw some PS3 on the set and some Blu-Ray and I can tell you he had a great deal of enthusiasm in his voice. He was extremely impressed with the picture quality. It hits the stores in October.
Now the bad news, for me anyway.....
It comes in only two sizes: 60" and 70". I know some have expressed a desire for larger sizes and some hoped for smaller options. Sixty inches is too big for me. I will sit 9.5 feet away and it will dwarf the long narrow room it would sit in.
So I'll never own one of these sets but I strongly advise those of you who can fit one these things in a room to wait....it will be worth it.
I must say I'm perplexed. I've been throwing my money at SONY's best for 20 years. I'm uncertain why smaller options aren't available for those of us who need them. What's the marketing strategy here? Did they make this decision before or during happy hour? :mad: And what's with the A3000 series only months after the A2020 series is released?
What the hell is the A3000 series going to be anyway? I could settle for one of those but why would I?
So, I'll be looking at PIO's new 1080p plasma this summer....assuming it fits in the house of course.
Again, it's worth waiting for so be patient. You'll get the set during football season and just before the Holiday's.......that's perfect. Oh, and I guess the cheaper Blu ray player is pretty nice as well.
Have a blast!



The new sets are going to be only 12" in depth??? That's more surprising to me than anything else. I was pretty much hoping/expecting HDMI 1.3, but having that much depth shaved off the sets is really quite a nice treat. It kind of cracks me up that so many people are investing so much $$$ on flat panel tv's and then they place the tv's on these big huge tv stands or armoires. What's the point? If you're gonna go flat screen, then mount it on the wall like a painting. Otherwise that tv stand is gonna take up just as much room as a projection tv would.

I'm quite dissapointed to hear they're coming out in Oct though. I was hoping Sony would release it in time for the start of the NFL season.


For those of you hoping for an 80" set, are you guys insane? :D How large of a room do you need for that? If you want it that big, you should probably go with a projector and be done with it.....

You must have a pretty big house if you want an 80" TV. All I want is a tiny little 50" TV!
I remember wondering if my 36" CRT was going to be too big for this room.
I don't think you'll care about waiting until October for this set. You'll miss a month of the NFL but by that time the Colts will be out of it, TO will have dropped 15 balls, Brady Quinn will be starting for Houston.

If Sony release a 80" RPTV, then I would be one of the first one's to jump into getting it. I am sure Sony will release an 80", but maybe in 2008 release (xbr4).

You must have a pretty big house if you want an 80" TV. All I want is a tiny little 50" TV!I remember wondering if my 36" CRT was going to be too big for this room.
I don't think you'll care about waiting until October for this set. You'll miss a month of the NFL but by that time the Colts will be out of it, TO will have dropped 15 balls, Brady Quinn will be starting for Houston.

not nessisarily (sp). I was playing a BD on my 60" last night, and I was "right up at the TV" (like about 1-2 ft away) and it looked better that close than standard def TV at 12' (normal seating) Plus at that size you get a whole different experience from a movie (remember back to being a kid and sitting at the front of a movie;) ) Plus after having my 60" for almost 4 years I can say (with the wife's aproval LOL, because she agrees) the 60" is "not that big" anymore, it's one of those things you just get used to it's size.

So I'd be willing to jump to a 70 or 80" (because I'm a Texas guy ;) I'd prefer the 80)

This confirms the news I received today from a buyer who was at the SONY show in Las Vegas.
It's a good news/bad news thing-depending on what you wanted. These are rear projection by the way. You can take this info to the bank.......
Good news:
The SXRD XBR's have HDMI 1.3 and 120hz-very nice refresh rate!
They have a whole new cabinet design and they are slim....12" to be exact. I was told that unless you were standing next to the set "you'd think it was a plasma".
They apparently have a "glass-like" frame similar to the SONY XBR3 LCD's. He said the TV and the picture quality are really beautiful. He saw some PS3 on the set and some Blu-Ray and I can tell you he had a great deal of enthusiasm in his voice. He was extremely impressed with the picture quality. It hits the stores in October.
Now the bad news, for me anyway.....
It comes in only two sizes: 60" and 70". I know some have expressed a desire for larger sizes and some hoped for smaller options. Sixty inches is too big for me. I will sit 9.5 feet away and it will dwarf the long narrow room it would sit in.
So I'll never own one of these sets but I strongly advise those of you who can fit one these things in a room to wait....it will be worth it.
I must say I'm perplexed. I've been throwing my money at SONY's best for 20 years. I'm uncertain why smaller options aren't available for those of us who need them. What's the marketing strategy here? Did they make this decision before or during happy hour? :mad: And what's with the A3000 series only months after the A2020 series is released?
What the hell is the A3000 series going to be anyway? I could settle for one of those but why would I?
So, I'll be looking at PIO's new 1080p plasma this summer....assuming it fits in the house of course.
Again, it's worth waiting for so be patient. You'll get the set during football season and just before the Holiday's.......that's perfect. Oh, and I guess the cheaper Blu ray player is pretty nice as well.
Have a blast!

Is the price going up for this or down?

October is a long way off, and I am sure Sony will put a staggering opening price on the new XBR like they always do. I'm looking at it as a chance to see a price drop on the XBR2 which has been around since last fall. Some posts I have seen say the slimmer JVC coming out has another lens, and therefore the potential for distortion increases.

Does anyone know what was the price on 70XBR2 when it was initially released? Currently, $5999.

I'm from the school of thought that for TV's bigger is not necessarily better. I can't stand a crappy picture on a huge screen. I I think that a TV should be bought with a specific room in mind. Unless you'll be watching 100% DVD, HD, BD, or HDDVD, you should think about what your crappy cable/satelite feed will look like on your monster set. The TV may look better turned off!!!

You may be better off with the set you already have.

just my two cents....

Peace.

I believe in building a room around what television you want :D OTA is often overlooked as a source. If you have never seen OTA HD you are really missing something spectacular.

Does anyone know what was the price on 70XBR2 when it was initially released? Currently, $5999.

When Sony first released information on the KDS-R70XBR2 in June 2006 its announced price was $7800 (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/606sonykdsr70/). If I'm not mistaken, its MSRP when it was actually first released for sale in late September was already down to $6999 (http://www.nextag.com/SONY-KDSR70XBR2-70-1080p-512590620/price-history-html). The MSRP from Sony quickly dropped to the $5999 level where it is now, and I think that it has pretty much stayed there except for a brief Black Friday sale in November.

Hoping MSRP price talk doesn't bend forum rules,

kelpie

Does anyone know what was the price on 70XBR2 when it was initially released? Currently, $5999.

$6999

I can't believe I forgot to mention in my post about the 60 and 70 inch XBR's coming out in October that THE DUMBO EARS ARE GONE.
The speaker is below the screen. So, that part of the design is like the current A2000's.

Anyone know if a new 1080/24p 60" SXRD, LCD, or XBR are coming out soon and if so when?

October is a long way off, and I am sure Sony will put a staggering opening price on the new XBR like they always do. I'm looking at it as a chance to see a price drop on the XBR2 which has been around since last fall. Some posts I have seen say the slimmer JVC coming out has another lens, and therefore the potential for distortion increases.


You know, I'm hoping that this won't be the case. In a year, projection tv's are gonna have to compete on price with the flat panels, and flat panel plasmas and lcd's are really dropping in price. Who's gonna spend 6K on an SXRD when you can buy a really nice plasma or LCD for 3K next year?


Heck if Vizio can produce a nice 50" flat panel for 1800 bucks now, just think how cheap they'll be in a year......

When Sony first released information on the KDS-R70XBR2 in June 2006 its announced price was $7800 (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/606sonykdsr70/). If I'm not mistaken, its MSRP when it was actually first released for sale in late September was already down to $6999 (http://www.nextag.com/SONY-KDSR70XBR2-70-1080p-512590620/price-history-html). The MSRP from Sony quickly dropped to the $5999 level where it is now, and I think that it has pretty much stayed there except for a brief Black Friday sale in November.

Hoping MSRP price talk doesn't bend forum rules,

kelpie

Black Friday=$4999. at many retail locations ;)

[QUOTE=Hanzo]You know, I'm hoping that this won't be the case. In a year, projection tv's are gonna have to compete on price with the flat panels, and flat panel plasmas and lcd's are really dropping in price. Who's gonna spend 6K on an SXRD when you can buy a really nice plasma or LCD for 3K next year?

Well, Hanzo, a lot of people, and very possibly me.
"A nice plasma?" Maybe a nice $5000 for anything of size. Most "nice" 50-65" plasmas are now selling for around 6k+. So to answer your question, the Sony 70XBR 2 MSRP's for ABOUT 2K less than that. And the shadow detail and blacks are competitive with THEE best plasmas.
Have you priced the Panasonic 65" plasma??? MSRP is reeeeally up there. Pioneer likewise. Sony's 70" offers a significant reduction in price for as big/bigger. So it is down to plasma technology vs. SXRP (and I will not get into that one). ;)

ok --- now does a 2.5ms display response time and 120HZ automatically guarantee PS3 and Computer Gaming with no lag? or are there other factors?

someone should work on finding pictures of the KDSR70XBR3 ... there was a huge friggen show that had these on display someone is bound to have snapped a few shots.

ok --- now does a 2.5ms display response time and 120HZ automatically guarantee PS3 and Computer Gaming with no lag? or are there other factors?No, the video processing in the TV is a big factor, particularly if the TV will interpolate 120 frames from a source with 60.

No, the video processing in the TV is a big factor, particularly if the TV will interpolate 120 frames from a source with 60.

so what is that and do you think it will be good enoguh to be considered a monitor? yes no maybe so?

The A3000 SXRD's coming July/August: 1.0 DRC (XBR3 will be 2.5) 120hz. Smaller bulb for A3000, same cabinet as XBR3. Both support vx deep color. I was told over the phone last week that the cabinet depth was 12" but the brochure I saw today listed depth as 14". I can live with that. The XBR3 will have 4 HDMI ports the A3000 will have 3.
The images I saw had the face of the TV blacked out but the shape was impressive and I'm glad the shape is the same for both series. I was told the speaker is 'better' on the XBR3. Speakers will be on the bottom.
A3000 will be 50-55", XBR3 60-70". I may not have to look at plasma after all.

Thanks Mikeyf for the info you have on the XBR3.....it's greatly appreciated. I wish we could see a pic of it right now....the wait is killing me. I have to upgrade from my old 40in 1080i Toshiba. Everything I've read indicates that Sony's XBR series is as good as it gets for rear projection tvs. I can't wait to play my PS3 (Metal Gear Solid4) on the 60in XBR3. Hopefully Sony will put the TV out towards the end of the summer....I think they'll do it.

4 HDMI inputs!!! Sweet. I wish my cable box had HDMI. Guess component will have to do until they design a new box.

I was "right up at the TV" (like about 1-2 ft away)You're going to ruin your eyes! Didn't your mother teach you anything ;)?

Mikeyf - I'm looking at the 70" XBR2 and need to decide if I should wait for the XBR3. Summarizing the changes, as far as you know- slimmer cabinet (or is this not true on the 70"?), HDMI 1.3, better refresh rate, speakers to bottom, better speakers, and more HDMI ports. Did I forget anything?
Thanks!

dont forget "motion flow"

I've got a 50" A2020 being delivered on Monday as a Best Buy extended service plan replacement for a 50" XBR1. :)

If the price of the XBR2 goes to 4k and XBR3 is 6k does the XBR3 justify the 2k difference? I can't believe there would be that much improvement in PQ. Is there any picture of the new unit yet? I thought there was some Sony show.

If the price of the XBR2 goes to 4k and XBR3 is 6k does the XBR3 justify the 2k difference? I can't believe there would be that much improvement in PQ. Is there any picture of the new unit yet? I thought there was some Sony show.Electronics equipment almost always drops in price after it is out for a while. You have to take into account competition, availability and lower production costs once assembly lines ramp up. Remember that the 70" XBR2 was $6,000 when it was released.

What is the width of the new 70" XBR3? I'm in process of building an enclosure
based on the width of the 70" XBR2 with the attached "ears", but may alter it
if the new TV is not as wide.
Also, does anyone know if Sony will have a new matching stand exclusive to the
XPR3's?
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,Brian

some guy just mentioned how a dealer saw the 70" XBR3 well calibrated on a choice Blu-Ray movie and said it was really insane picture quality..although failing to mention whether or not it improved upon the XBR2 because the XBR2 well calibrated on a nice Blu-Ray movie was also insane.

Mikeyf - I'm looking at the 70" XBR2 and need to decide if I should wait for the XBR3. Summarizing the changes, as far as you know- slimmer cabinet (or is this not true on the 70"?), HDMI 1.3, better refresh rate, speakers to bottom, better speakers, and more HDMI ports. Did I forget anything?
Thanks!

I think we are all pretty much in the same boat. We have to decide when to jump in knowing something better will eventually be available.
All the new XBR3 and A3000 series have 'slim' cabinets. The major differences between the two will be: XBR3- DRC 2.5, brighter lamp, 4 HDMI ports, and better speakers-whatever that means to any of us. A3000 series: DRC 1.0, 3 HDMI ports,
and that's all I could find in the brief time I had to look.
Both series have the same 120hz refresh rate and support vx deep color.

My advice is to wait for the new one and enjoy it for a long time. It's really not that far away. :D

some guy just mentioned how a dealer saw the 70" XBR3 well calibrated on a choice Blu-Ray movie and said it was really insane picture quality..although failing to mention whether or not it improved upon the XBR2 because the XBR2 well calibrated on a nice Blu-Ray movie was also insane.

The 70XBR3 was demoed at the SONY show with a BluRay player. All I can tell you is that my friend who saw the demo was extremely impressed and enthused. Based on his reaction and my discussion with him I would speculate that those of us with an eye for detail (and I assume we're discussing this because we have those eyes) would notice an improvement over the 70XBR2 if they were side by side.
Feature wise I think we should expect that and I bet pricing might be a nice surprise. It's getting competitive out there.

70XBR3 LCD or RPTV?

We all know there's already a XBR3 LCD on SonyStyle for $32,000

wow, yet another screen name. :rolleyes:

and yet another. remarkable. :(

SXRD technology possess a characteristic and inherent defect (the "Defect"). . . . .

GOOD LORD! How many times and in how many threads are you going to post this?? Why are you using multiple screen-names? I think you've made your point that you don't like Sony or the SXRDs. That's fine! Good for you! I'm delighted that you enjoy your Mits, as I am sure it's a fine TV, as well. But could you quit spamming the board with these relentless attacks on Sony? Can you add some useful input, please?

Thanks

he/she has no useful input!

70XBR3 LCD or RPTV?

We all know there's already a XBR3 LCD on SonyStyle for $32,000

You know, at the place where I buy my A/V toys they have a 52" XBR2 LCD next to a 50" A2000 SXRD and I want to like the LCD better because of the styling but my eyes always choose the SXRD. It's more natural and 'theater like' to me.
Really wish I could fit the 60" XBR3 SXRD in my room........

If someone started a petition for an 80-inch SXRD would Sony listen? people complained about panasonic plasmas here so long--maybe Panasonic listened.

It might not happen until 2008 but i think Sony will eventually build an 80-inch. why? Sony likes to swagger as being the greatest. Nobody thought they'd manufacture the 40XBR800 CRT set.

Whenever they build an 80-inch--that's when I'm going to go hog wild and buy!!

Alot of people may wonder why have a set so big--so that you can actually SEE the difference 1920X1080 makes with the screen taking up a great amount of your field of view and without having to sit RIDICULOUSLY close to the screen.

If you want HOME theater--nothing substitutes for BIG!

The 70XBR3 was demoed at the SONY show with a BluRay player. All I can tell you is that my friend who saw the demo was extremely impressed and enthused. Based on his reaction and my discussion with him I would speculate that those of us with an eye for detail (and I assume we're discussing this because we have those eyes) would notice an improvement over the 70XBR2 if they were side by side.
Feature wise I think we should expect that and I bet pricing might be a nice surprise. It's getting competitive out there.

Actually what I should have asked is whether or not there was some sort of change...I heard a while ago about an engine update that improved picture quality...any news on a reason for the better quality or is it exactly the same in the hardware not including HDMI 1.3 and 120hz? I hate that they are yet to have made the SXRD picture quality better its nearly the same as when the friggen qualia was first introduced. Is this dead end technology? Can they not make the SXRD have better image quality? Whats the friggen deal? If they put out another XBR with no changes other then HDMI 1.3 and 120hz I'm gonna smash my head through a car windshield...sure features are nice but I think we're all concerned about the friggen meat and friggen potatoes.

[QUOTE=Artwood]If someone started a petition for an 80-inch SXRD would Sony listen? QUOTE]

Hey Artwood, I'm right there with you! Start a petition and I'll be sure to sign.

I don't want a front projector because I don't like sitting in the dark all the time. These sxrds seem to be a good compromise--bright enough for daytime viewing and an 80" would also have that home theater size! I have a 65" and would never get anything smaller and a 70' just doesn't seem to be a big enough step up. 80 would be about perfect.

But, if there's not one announced this year, that means the next announcements would be a year from June and then would not be out until October 2008. The initial price for such a beast would have to be really expensive (10k?--the 006 was 13k!). So I would have to wait even longer for a price drop; so now we're talking 2009. I don't think I can wait that long! I might just go for the 70xbr3 and move my seat a foot closer (I sit 10' away now...).

Here's an idea Sony--release an 80-inch right before Christmas and advertise it all the way through the Super Bowl!

I might just go for the 70xbr3 and move my seat a foot closer (I sit 10' away now...).

Whoa...I sit 10' away now, and think the 60" XBR is too big, and wish they had a 55-57" XBR. How can you sit that close to a screen that big? Your eyes must be constantly moving, and you must even have to move your HEAD every now and then. Sounds uncomfortable, and SD sources must be painful to watch.

But as they say, "To each his own."

Cheers,
Troy

Whoa...I sit 10' away now, and think the 60" XBR is too big, and wish they had a 55-57" XBR. How can you sit that close to a screen that big? Your eyes must be constantly moving, and you must even have to move your HEAD every now and then. Sounds uncomfortable, and SD sources must be painful to watch.At 10 feet, a 60" screen makes for a <25 degree viewing angle. There should be no need to move your eyes, let alone your head, with that.

By comparison, the viewing angle when sitting toward the mid-rear of many theaters is 30-36 degrees, which would equal a 75+" screen from 10 feet.

At 10 feet, a 60" screen makes for a <25 degree viewing angle. There should be no need to move your eyes, let alone your head, with that.

By comparison, the viewing angle when sitting toward the mid-rear of many theaters is 30-36 degrees, which would equal a 75+" screen from 10 feet.

That makes sense, especially when talking about an actual movie theater. I guess I am just thinking about all of those "recommended viewing calculations", like THX and others. I know that 60" at 10' is right on the edge of "proper distance". But it seems like I can't just "look straight forward" and see the whole screen. I have to shift my focus around a lot.

I guess I am just not used to it yet, coming from a 42" as my last screen at that distance. When I bought it 8 years ago, I was sitting about 7 feet away, and the technology of the time did not support a bigger screen with good PQ.

I still think that viewing a 70" at 9' would be a bit close, even at 1080p...and an 80" would be really close. But like I said, to each his own.

So it sounds like from what I am hearing from a lot of users around the forum that 10' viewing distance will not be too close for a 60" SXRD XBR2 (or maybe an XBR3). That makes me feel a lot better about my upcoming purchase then. I kept hearing that 10' was "right on the edge, maybe too close."

Regards,
Troy

"I kept hearing that 10' was "right on the edge, maybe too close."

i think 10ft for a 60" is right on the edge of too far. not to close.



actually i believe it is recommended to sit about 8ft (eyes to screen) from a 60" displaying 1080 for the best highdef experience. (think its in the manual for my 60"xbr2). further for SD material. however, my room conditions wont allow that so i sit at 10ft. sometimes when it's just the wife and me and i really want the experience I'll slide the chair up.

This confirms the news I received today from a buyer who was at the SONY show in Las Vegas.
It's a good news/bad news thing-depending on what you wanted. These are rear projection by the way. You can take this info to the bank.......
Good news:
The SXRD XBR's have HDMI 1.3 and 120hz-very nice refresh rate!
They have a whole new cabinet design and they are slim....12" to be exact. I was told that unless you were standing next to the set "you'd think it was a plasma".
They apparently have a "glass-like" frame similar to the SONY XBR3 LCD's. He said the TV and the picture quality are really beautiful. He saw some PS3 on the set and some Blu-Ray and I can tell you he had a great deal of enthusiasm in his voice. He was extremely impressed with the picture quality. It hits the stores in October.
Now the bad news, for me anyway.....
It comes in only two sizes: 60" and 70". I know some have expressed a desire for larger sizes and some hoped for smaller options. Sixty inches is too big for me. I will sit 9.5 feet away and it will dwarf the long narrow room it would sit in.
So I'll never own one of these sets but I strongly advise those of you who can fit one these things in a room to wait....it will be worth it.
I must say I'm perplexed. I've been throwing my money at SONY's best for 20 years. I'm uncertain why smaller options aren't available for those of us who need them. What's the marketing strategy here? Did they make this decision before or during happy hour? :mad: And what's with the A3000 series only months after the A2020 series is released?
What the hell is the A3000 series going to be anyway? I could settle for one of those but why would I?
So, I'll be looking at PIO's new 1080p plasma this summer....assuming it fits in the house of course.
Again, it's worth waiting for so be patient. You'll get the set during football season and just before the Holiday's.......that's perfect. Oh, and I guess the cheaper Blu ray player is pretty nice as well.
Have a blast!
This sounds great. Thanks for posting this information.

Does anyone know anything about the width of the TV? (wing speakers, etc.)

I hope Sony loses these for the XBR3 because I have a 65" wide cabinet opening and I want a 60" TV. My second choice is the 60" SXRD.

This sounds great. Thanks for posting this information.

Does anyone know anything about the width of the TV? (wing speakers, etc.)

I hope Sony loses these for the XBR3 because I have a 65" wide cabinet opening and I want a 60" TV. My second choice is the 60" SXRD.

There is more information through the rest of the thread....yes the 'ears' are gone off the XBR3 and A3000 series.

more info on engine updates or any updates to improve picture quality...? excluding HDMI 1.3 and all that jazz...I'm feeling mildly disappointed since I haven't heard anything about any other updates and I was expecting some hardware change but might be disappointed for a 3rd year in a row.

more info on engine updates or any updates to improve picture quality...? excluding HDMI 1.3 and all that jazz...I'm feeling mildly disappointed since I haven't heard anything about any other updates and I was expecting some hardware change but might be disappointed for a 3rd year in a row.


What else is there? Improved black levels or contrast? A switch to a different type of lamp (like laser) perhaps?


You know, I still have absolutely no idea what the heck "Digital Reality Creation (DRC) is, or how DRC 2.5 on the XBR2's differs from the version implemented on the A2000's.

I'm hoping for a 75XBR3 with 120hz and dual HD tuners (both sides of Twin View). Otherwise I've had no reason to upgrade from my cherry 60XBR1 (though I've often drooled at the 70XBR2). Multi-path 2-way CableCARD and TVGOS would be nice, too.

Inputs? Don't really care as long as there it at least one HDMI ... the only thing going to be connected would be the HDMI out from my Denon 4306. :D

But I'd expect at least 2 HDMI rear, 2 component (upgrading these to accept 1080p would be nice) rear. Bringing back 2-3 iLink would get bonus points.

Is there any word of the later A2000 models being free of this green blob issue?

Is there any word of the later A2000 models being free of this green blob issue?

why do you people friggen care thats why products come with a warranty and you extend it 2+ yeras for like $200

why do you people friggen care thats why products come with a warranty and you extend it 2+ yeras for like $200Mostly because nobody wants to live with a screwed up TV for 4 months, suffering through multiple repairs, each time with the PQ getting worse until finally Sony decides to make you pay list price for a new TV that you could have bought at your local store for $400 less or online for $1000 less and with less aggravation and not having to take days off from work (whew :rolleyes: ). That's why.

The 70XBR3 was demoed at the SONY show with a BluRay player. All I can tell you is that my friend who saw the demo was extremely impressed and enthused. Based on his reaction and my discussion with him I would speculate that those of us with an eye for detail (and I assume we're discussing this because we have those eyes) would notice an improvement over the 70XBR2 if they were side by side.
Feature wise I think we should expect that and I bet pricing might be a nice surprise. It's getting competitive out there.

The only thing I'm worrying about is whether or not it was an optimized BluRay disc using deep color or something...I'm really having my fingers crossed someone will mention something about hardware changes producing better image quality. I'm done waiting for news its borring lol good luck

Finally made the decision to got for the 60XBR2. Only big issue has been the 'dumbo ears' on the current model - that surprisingly don't bug the wife. I just received spousal approval to buy it - and the wife wants it NOW.

What exactly am I missing on the XBR3 - other than the cabinet design, HDMI 1.3, 1 4th HDMI input and 120Hz refresh?

Finally made the decision to got for the 60XBR2. Only big issue has been the 'dumbo ears' on the current model - that surprisingly don't bug the wife. I just received spousal approval to buy it - and the wife wants it NOW.

What exactly am I missing on the XBR3 - other than the cabinet design, HDMI 1.3, 1 4th HDMI input and 120Hz refresh?

For me the cabinet and refresh rate are very important. Will I buy a new SONY?
Time will tell. I'm shut out of the XBR3 because it's too big. I'll consider the new A3000 but only if a 1080P plasma prices itself out of contention. It's tough when you want to throw $$ at a manufacturer but they limit choices. I'll probably end up throwing $$ at a Pioneer something or other.
I have heard the PQ on the XBR3 is awesome-but the source was Blu-ray and PS3.
If you can wait until October......I would. I don't think anyone who waits will be dissapointed. The image I saw of the new cabinet was very nice-much improved.

You know, I'm hoping that this won't be the case. In a year, projection tv's are gonna have to compete on price with the flat panels, and flat panel plasmas and lcd's are really dropping in price. Who's gonna spend 6K on an SXRD when you can buy a really nice plasma or LCD for 3K next year?


Heck if Vizio can produce a nice 50" flat panel for 1800 bucks now, just think how cheap they'll be in a year......

I will in a heartbeat. I hate plasma. I hate the potential burn in and seeing pixels.

I've always liked LCOS over Plasma would most definitely choose a 120Hz SXRD over any plasma out there.

I love my current 60XBR1, but would equally love a Pio Elite plasma... just not it's price. 768p plasmas no thanks.

Finally made the decision to got for the 60XBR2. Only big issue has been the 'dumbo ears' on the current model - that surprisingly don't bug the wife. I just received spousal approval to buy it - and the wife wants it NOW.

?

the dumbo ears are what my wife liked about it.. something about form and style yada yada...oh and i think the word cute was in there somewhere.
personally i noticed them the first few days and after that i don't even know they are there i just watch the screen. except when i have to dust it off.....she wont touch it. and thats fine with me :D

could someone point me toward a picture of the XBR3 if there is one.

I've always liked LCOS over Plasma would most definitely choose a 120Hz SXRD over any plasma out there.

I love my current 60XBR1, but would equally love a Pio Elite plasma... just not it's price. 768p plasmas no thanks.

SXRD over flat panel technologies like Plasma, you can't be serious :rolleyes:

the dumbo ears are what my wife liked about it.. something about form and style yada yada...oh and i think the word cute was in there somewhere.
personally i noticed them the first few days and after that i don't even know they are there i just watch the screen. except when i have to dust it off.....she wont touch it. and thats fine with me :D

could someone point me toward a picture of the XBR3 if there is one.
I also like the look of it with the dumbo ears.. It look very nice, plus TV looks bigger for some reason.

I always liked the speakers of the XS/XBR chassis because of the 'floating' 3D effect that they give the screen. Even if I had upgraded to a 70XBR2, I'd have them speakers mounted!

How good will the electronics & signal processing be on the A3000? The A2000 was definitely not in the same league as the XBR2. I seem to recall that the A2000 deinterlaced 1080i worse than the XBR2, and was inferior even to the 2006-7 consumer JVC LCOS 1080P sets when tests were done with stuff like 3:2 film cadence 1080i. The first A2000s didn't even accept 1080i bandwidth on all inputs--I remember one site (CNET?) discovered their review model wouldn't show a full 1920 x 1080 distinct pixels from a static test signal, after which Sony "fixed" the problem. I hope that was a manufacturing oversight, and not that Sony figured nobody would notice the loss of a few pixels horizontally.

I'd hope for more parity with the 2007-8 Sony models, but I'd like some confirmation of that given this history.

How good will the electronics & signal processing be on the A3000? The A2000 was definitely not in the same league as the XBR2. I seem to recall that the A2000 deinterlaced 1080i worse than the XBR2, and was inferior even to the 2006-7 consumer JVC LCOS 1080P sets when tests were done with stuff like 3:2 film cadence 1080i. The first A2000s didn't even accept 1080i bandwidth on all inputs--I remember one site (CNET?) discovered their review model wouldn't show a full 1920 x 1080 distinct pixels from a static test signal, after which Sony "fixed" the problem. I hope that was a manufacturing oversight, and not that Sony figured nobody would notice the loss of a few pixels horizontally.

I'd hope for more parity with the 2007-8 Sony models, but I'd like some confirmation of that given this history.

Your points are well taken and exactly why I'm hesitant to buy the A2000, A2020, or A3000. SONY confuses me as a consumer. What's the point of the A2020? Why limit the XBR3 series to two sizes 60" and 70"? With the recent problems with the A2000 how can one have confidence in that set? We have to assume improvements are being made in the next two A series and listen to customer experiences. I'll wait and let others spend thier money first before I decide. :confused:

I always liked the speakers of the XS/XBR chassis because of the 'floating' 3D effect that they give the screen. Even if I had upgraded to a 70XBR2, I'd have them speakers mounted!

I think there's a lot of us that like the "dumbo ears"/floating screen design. But I think those that don't like it, reallllly don't like it and are very vocal about it!

I went to a meeting at a friends house who has the 60XBR2 and while the set was turned off, everyone had the same question - what were the things that stick out on the side? The set is already much wider than it is tall, so it makes much more design sense to put the speakers on the bottom. Like Mick said," You can't always get what you want". If you don't use the speakers anyway I guess it wouldn't be that hard to do some surgery.

Now the '07 issue is the depth. On another thread a guy who knows someone at Sony said several of the RP models are dropping from like 18 " deep down to around 12", but I believe he said the 70" will not get slimmer. Did I read that right?
Gary

The A3000 SXRD's coming July/August: 1.0 DRC (XBR3 will be 2.5) 120hz. Smaller bulb for A3000, same cabinet as XBR3. Both support vx deep color. I was told over the phone last week that the cabinet depth was 12" but the brochure I saw today listed depth as 14". I can live with that. The XBR3 will have 4 HDMI ports the A3000 will have 3.
The images I saw had the face of the TV blacked out but the shape was impressive and I'm glad the shape is the same for both series. I was told the speaker is 'better' on the XBR3. Speakers will be on the bottom.
A3000 will be 50-55", XBR3 60-70". I may not have to look at plasma after all.

What size TV will have the 14 inch depth?

Is it the 50, 55, 60 or 70?

I think we are all pretty much in the same boat. We have to decide when to jump in knowing something better will eventually be available.
All the new XBR3 and A3000 series have 'slim' cabinets. The major differences between the two will be: XBR3- DRC 2.5, brighter lamp, 4 HDMI ports, and better speakers-whatever that means to any of us. A3000 series: DRC 1.0, 3 HDMI ports,
and that's all I could find in the brief time I had to look.
Both series have the same 120hz refresh rate and support vx deep color.

My advice is to wait for the new one and enjoy it for a long time. It's really not that far away. :D

when you say the refesh rate will be 120hz, does that mean th TV will be able to do 24p liek the new E3000 TVs anounced?

This confirms the news I received today from a buyer who was at the SONY show in Las Vegas.
It's a good news/bad news thing-depending on what you wanted. These are rear projection by the way. You can take this info to the bank.......
Good news:
The SXRD XBR's have HDMI 1.3 and 120hz-very nice refresh rate!
They have a whole new cabinet design and they are slim....12" to be exact. I was told that unless you were standing next to the set "you'd think it was a plasma".
They apparently have a "glass-like" frame similar to the SONY XBR3 LCD's. He said the TV and the picture quality are really beautiful. He saw some PS3 on the set and some Blu-Ray and I can tell you he had a great deal of enthusiasm in his voice. He was extremely impressed with the picture quality. It hits the stores in October.
Now the bad news, for me anyway.....
It comes in only two sizes: 60" and 70". I know some have expressed a desire for larger sizes and some hoped for smaller options. Sixty inches is too big for me. I will sit 9.5 feet away and it will dwarf the long narrow room it would sit in.
So I'll never own one of these sets but I strongly advise those of you who can fit one these things in a room to wait....it will be worth it.
I must say I'm perplexed. I've been throwing my money at SONY's best for 20 years. I'm uncertain why smaller options aren't available for those of us who need them. What's the marketing strategy here? Did they make this decision before or during happy hour? :mad: And what's with the A3000 series only months after the A2020 series is released?
What the hell is the A3000 series going to be anyway? I could settle for one of those but why would I?
So, I'll be looking at PIO's new 1080p plasma this summer....assuming it fits in the house of course.
Again, it's worth waiting for so be patient. You'll get the set during football season and just before the Holiday's.......that's perfect. Oh, and I guess the cheaper Blu ray player is pretty nice as well.
Have a blast!

9.5 feet? isnt that a perfect distance for a 60inch? isnt the minimum 8 feet?

Perhaps in this go around the A3000 and the XBR3 will be exactly the same except for the size. Then the A3000 will have a point. That's what I hope at least because 60" is a bit big for my room.

when you say the refesh rate will be 120hz, does that mean th TV will be able to do 24p liek the new E3000 TVs anounced?

That's what I was assuming too....but I haven't heard that mentioned yet.

Perhaps in this go around the A3000 and the XBR3 will be exactly the same except for the size. Then the A3000 will have a point. That's what I hope at least because 60" is a bit big for my room.

if some one not interested in 70 inch etc, stay to a3000

24p would require 72hz actually (24x3).

I don't really see the point of 120hz in a rear-projector. The bulb is always on and does not flicker. For an LCD where you are "painting" the screen X-times per second, yeah sure... but not a projector.

walk, maybe it means that the new sets will accept 120 frames per second over hdmi 1.3 connections? If so, this will make PC gamers happy. However, I doubt it.

24p would require 72hz actually (24x3).

I don't really see the point of 120hz in a rear-projector. The bulb is always on and does not flicker. For an LCD where you are "painting" the screen X-times per second, yeah sure... but not a projector.

Why 3, exactly? 120 is a multiple of 24 too, you know...

And RPTV's "paint" the screen too. They just reflect it onto a bigger screen. Bulbs are always on on LCD's as well. Actually I can't think of a single display technology that uses flickering bulbs... Maybe LED?

Since 120 is a common multiple of 24, 30 and 60, it can support all of these framerates without needing to interpolate any of them. So for 24p content, it draws the same frame 5 times. For 30p content, it draws the same frame 4 times, and for 60p two times. It's relevant because the new HD disc formats use 24p to match film framerates, so if it can display those without interpolation or processing, you get a better moving image.

24p would require 72hz actually (24x3).

I don't really see the point of 120hz in a rear-projector. The bulb is always on and does not flicker. For an LCD where you are "painting" the screen X-times per second, yeah sure... but not a projector.The point is to have a scan rate that is evenly divisible by all possible source scan rates. 120hz is the lowest rate that can be evenly divided by 60, 30 and 24. 72 can not.

As far as flickering bulbs, I'm not sure if any displays use AC-powered bulbs, but that would cause flicker. That applies to AC-powered incandescent and flourescent bulbs. LED's can not run on AC, so could not flicker.

What size TV will have the 14 inch depth?

Is it the 50, 55, 60 or 70?

The 50 is 14" deep. I believe the 55 is 16". They are all going to be a bit more slim. I like the shape of the set as well. I was told by the guy who sells me my A/V gear that the XBR3's and A3000's "look" smaller because the ears are gone and they aren't as deep.
We'll know when we see them for real.

9.5 feet? isnt that a perfect distance for a 60inch? isnt the minimum 8 feet?

Well, the room is 11.5 feet wide. The question for me is would the TV smother the room? I'd love to have an XBR3 but that's a lot of TV for this space. Even the guy who sells them and is familiar with my room says that 60" might be too much.
So, you may be right but I have to see one of these first to make a decision.
If the new Pioneer 1080P plasma is 'reasonable' $$ wise it will be a moot point.
I will look at JVC's new slim line as well but reviews are going to have to make it sound like a lifetime of free lap dances for me to be serious.

You're right, 120 is a multiple of 24 (and 30 and 60), I forgot about that. Still, 72 is probably high enough for 24p in practice.

I don't see the point of anything higher than 60 (or 72) for a rear (or front for that matter) projector.

The point of higher refresh rates are to eliminate flicker.

The tiny LCD/LCos chips are "painted" 60 (etc) times per second, BUT the light from the bulb that projects that image onto the screen is constant. (Incandescent (or halogen) bulbs do not "pulse" the way that flourecents do, this is why they are much easier on the eyes).

CRTs and LCDs however (direct-views that is) paint the screen directly - that is, the viewing surface that your eyes see is refreshed at Xhz. Luckily there is "persistance" that keeps the phosphors/crystals glowing beyond the point where the gun hits them - otherwise 60hz CRT/LCDs would drive you absolutely nuts with all the flickering.... BUT there has to be a tradeoff between persistance and "lag". With i.e. 120hz refresh you can lower the persistance of the pixels by a bunch, giving you a "faster" display (less lag/smear/whatever you call it, faster "ms") but not flickering like mad.

I guess it must have some benefit on the tiny LCD/LCos chips in the same way, allowing them to be faster "ms"... but I doubt the effect is as beneficial as it is for direct-view LCDs (etc).

walk,

I think the main point for 120 Hz has nothing to do with flicker. It's that it's an integer multiple of 24, 30, and 60. That way, the TV doesn't have to perform any algorithms (like the 3:2 pulldown or whatever it's called) on the native source material, so there won't be any picture errors for either of those frames per seconds.

For 24 fps material, it can just refresh the same frame 5 times. For 30 fps, 4 times. And for 60 fps, 2 times. No fancy algorithms. Just arithmetic.

I'm hoping for an 80"! C'mon, they are making all these HUGE plasmas! SXRD has to keep up!
LOL - You guys are worse than these dudes driving around in their "Big Horn Edition" Dodge Ram pickups. Size is not all that matters in TV's, sometimes when I'm watching my episode of king of the hill on one of the lower analog channels I long for my old 36" rounded screen. Poor thing is sitting in my computer room gathering dust, I should find a place for it in the house so I can watch analog in hi def. :cool:

Incandescent (or halogen) bulbs do not "pulse" the way that flourecents do, this is why they are much easier on the eyes).Not true. You can prove that by shining an incandescent on a fan and looking at the reflected light. You will see a "strobe" effect caused by the light slightly brightening and dimming as the AC voltage goes from maximum to zero. The reason that the light in a projection TV doesn't strobe is because the lamps are fed DC voltage.

walk,

I think the main point for 120 Hz has nothing to do with flicker. It's that it's an integer multiple of 24, 30, and 60. That way, the TV doesn't have to perform any algorithms (like the 3:2 pulldown or whatever it's called) on the native source material, so there won't be any picture errors for either of those frames per seconds.

For 24 fps material, it can just refresh the same frame 5 times. For 30 fps, 4 times. And for 60 fps, 2 times. No fancy algorithms. Just arithmetic.

Believe issue is called "judder". The 3:2 pulldown does result (observable by some) in less than perfect/natural movement because some frames must be dropped in the conversion from 24 fps to 60 fps.

The 50 is 14" deep. I believe the 55 is 16". They are all going to be a bit more slim. I like the shape of the set as well. I was told by the guy who sells me my A/V gear that the XBR3's and A3000's "look" smaller because the ears are gone and they aren't as deep.
We'll know when we see them for real.


Thanks. The 2006 model depth for the 55 inch is 19 inches. So it looks like the 2007 models would be 3-4 inches shorter. That woudl make the 60 inch around 18 inches and the 70 inch around 20 inches.

Believe issue is called "judder". The 3:2 pulldown does result (observable by some) in less than perfect/natural movement because some frames must be dropped in the conversion from 24 fps to 60 fps.Frames aren't dropped; rather, some frames are repeated more than others.

Not true. You can prove that by shining an incandescent on a fan and looking at the reflected light. You will see a "strobe" effect caused by the light slightly brightening and dimming as the AC voltage goes from maximum to zero. The reason that the light in a projection TV doesn't strobe is because the lamps are fed DC voltage.

Yes, the Sony SXRD's give something like 400V DC for the lamp, according to the block diagrams in the service manual.

has some one seen current xbr2, sxrd non xbr side by side with new2020? what r your impressions?

Well, the room is 11.5 feet wide. The question for me is would the TV smother the room? I'd love to have an XBR3 but that's a lot of TV for this space. Even the guy who sells them and is familiar with my room says that 60" might be too much.
So, you may be right but I have to see one of these first to make a decision.
If the new Pioneer 1080P plasma is 'reasonable' $$ wise it will be a moot point.
I will look at JVC's new slim line as well but reviews are going to have to make it sound like a lifetime of free lap dances for me to be serious.


yeah i think the room im getting my TV in is the same size as yours, but i have a bay window that i was gonna put the tv in. i am also fighting myself between the 55 and the 60. but i have noticed when you look at them side by side the 55 does not look that much smaller then the 60, its kidna hard to tell, especially now that the cabinet is slimmer and the side ears are gone on the XBRs. so basically you are paying the higher price for better PQ. i thyink i might go for the 60 if i can afford it, or wait a few months for it to come down in price.

What exactly is DRC. The XBR's are going to have DRC 2.5 and the A3000's will have DRC 1.0. What is the difference?

What exactly is DRC. The XBR's are going to have DRC 2.5 and the A3000's will have DRC 1.0. What is the difference?

I believe it's Digital Reality Creation which is Sony's term for their HD processing--I think the deinterlacer is part of this. *If* that assumption is correct, then given the mediocre A2000 deinterlacing, this would imply equally mediocre A3000 deinterlacing. The A2000 fails the 3:2 film cadence test, for example. You can buy a cheap DVD player that deinterlaces 480i fairly well, but in the 1080i domain for broadcast TV this is more difficult currently, and probably because of the higher resolution, it is less apparent to the viewer.

I guess the test will be to watch a 1080i film on HDNet, HBO, etc. on the new A3000 and just see if you notice anything off--notably scene changes where the set may have trouble locking on to the correct cadence and you can scanlines twittering. It might also not do so well in 1080i60 video, but you might need a test HD-DVD to see this.

Anyone know for sure if DRC v2.5 in the XBR2 passes or fails the 3:2 film cadence test?

I believe Walk is confusing PC LCD Monitor refresh rates with a televisions - I have absolutely no flicker on my LCD's and never saw any on the SXRD I owned briefly.

Remove the 72Hz refresh - your throwing this "PC base" rate into the mix where it has no place with the processing of the TV's.

The key is to process 24fps to match movies and studio masters made for broadcasting. The SXRD already has a fast response time so if it can add 120Hz it can only help if done right. I hadn't realized the SXRD was moving towards 120Hz like the LCD FP's.

The 120 if done correctly makes for smoother motion but the real deal would be to have 24fps like the Fujitsu PDP and Pio FHD1 and the HD DVD may have firmware available by this summer to make it capable of 24Fps as would be the goal of BD players also. Not trying to be critical just keep seeing you throw the 72Hz up which I do not see as a reference point in all the threads and as an IT Manager I recognize it for LCD monitors not broadcast TV's. :)

Anyone know for sure if DRC v2.5 in the XBR2 passes or fails the 3:2 film cadence test?

http://ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/1206sonykdsr60xbr2/index4.html

This site appears to indicate you need to manually engage 3:2 pulldown detection, but it does seem to work on the XBR2.

No joy for me. Sony has finally proven their incompentent engineering with this green glob design defect. I wrote off the loss and gave the tv to the local college dorm. I bought a Mitsubishi 65732 and it has a magnificent picture. Interesting in the store today, at the end of the hall was the pos sony with, you guessed it, a horrific green hazey coffee stain in the center of the screen. Even without the green stain, the Mitsubishi 65732 is order of magnitute better in picture quality then the SXRD defect. The Mitsubishi 65732 as received the highest rating of any RPTV by CNET. Magnificent picture! I guess the class action lawsuit filed against Sony and the SXRD last month has some pretty solid justification.

Good for you! You're happy and we're happy for you. What college was that by the way? ;)

Have they given any indication as to how long the bulb life would be?

For current SXRD owners, how is the bulb life there? Does it dim as the bulb gets used more often? I'm leaning towards getting an SXRD, but I plan on using it for 4-5 hours a day. I'm slightly concerned as to how much I actually will have to replace it. Thanks.

No joy for me. Sony has finally proven their incompentent engineering with this green glob design defect. I wrote off the loss and gave the tv to the local college dorm. I bought a Mitsubishi 65732 and it has a magnificent picture. Interesting in the store today, at the end of the hall was the pos sony with, you guessed it, a horrific green hazey coffee stain in the center of the screen. Even without the green stain, the Mitsubishi 65732 is order of magnitute better in picture quality then the SXRD defect. The Mitsubishi 65732 as received the highest rating of any RPTV by CNET. Magnificent picture! I guess the class action lawsuit filed against Sony and the SXRD last month has some pretty solid justification.


he posted this in several sony threads.....i smell a troll

Have they given any indication as to how long the bulb life would be?

For current SXRD owners, how is the bulb life there? Does it dim as the bulb gets used more often? I'm leaning towards getting an SXRD, but I plan on using it for 4-5 hours a day. I'm slightly concerned as to how much I actually will have to replace it. Thanks.I don't see a problem with the lamps. I had over 6000 hours on the original lamp in my 50" XBR1 when I traded it for a 60" XBR2. The brightness was still good at that point. You should be able to adjust out any slight variance in color temperature due to lamp age; either with tint settings or with the white balance controls.

Even if the XBR2 lamp lasts 1/2 as long, you should get the same longevity because the XBR2 comes with a spare.

One question regarding lamps comes to mind, though - If the first lamp burns out on an XBR2 will Sony replace it in warranty or are they just relying on the included spare?

i might be wrong but i seem to remember, when i was looking about 4 months ago, that the manufacturers waranty doesnt cover the bulb. i know my sony extended waranty doesnt.

I believe Walk is confusing PC LCD Monitor refresh rates with a televisions - I have absolutely no flicker on my LCD's and never saw any on the SXRD I owned briefly.
No I'm not. :cool: PC LCD monitors generally refresh at 60hz also. The reason you don't see flicker is because of persistance. The reason you do notice flicker on CRT monitors at 60hz is because the persistance of the phosphors is a lot less than on an LCD. It is this same persistance, by the way, that causes LCD "lag" or smeared, blurry motion.

i might be wrong but i seem to remember, when i was looking about 4 months ago, that the manufacturers waranty doesnt cover the bulb. i know my sony extended waranty doesnt.
Some retailers sell special "bulb" warranties.

Sony screwed you .

STATEMENT OF FACTS



Fact, That was a great post for the anti-Sony coalition

Fact, Some sets really do and did have this issue and it sucks

Fact, These people have being getting sets replaced, (which is still a pain and sucks) Sony should have fixed this for good in the last generation.

Fact, There some obsessive and imbalanced people on this forum who make huge posts about it, and force it into much larger issue than it is just like DLP rainbows and panel alignment, Toshiba light engine replacements, etc. It's a TV, if you care THAT much about it you've invested far too much of yourself in it (from both a finance view or personal one).

Fact, These TV's look great and consumers want them, which is why Sony makes them.

Some retailers sell special "bulb" warranties.

true but i was replying to the question by cttv "If the first lamp burns out on an XBR2 will Sony replace it in warranty or are they just relying on the included spare?"

Thanks for all the information on the xbr3's everybody.

I was wondering if anybody knew if these sets will accept 1080p over component?

Thanks for all the information on the xbr3's everybody.

I was wondering if anybody knew if these sets will accept 1080p over component?

No, almost all of the new sets being developed are only designed to accept 1080p through HDMI. I don't know of any that will accept 1080p through component. It would be a hard sell for HDMI if they could.

I believe it's Digital Reality Creation which is Sony's term for their HD processing--I think the deinterlacer is part of this. *If* that assumption is correct, then given the mediocre A2000 deinterlacing, this would imply equally mediocre A3000 deinterlacing. The A2000 fails the 3:2 film cadence test, for example. You can buy a cheap DVD player that deinterlaces 480i fairly well, but in the 1080i domain for broadcast TV this is more difficult currently, and probably because of the higher resolution, it is less apparent to the viewer

I thought that with 120hz you don't have to mess with 3:2 pull down anymore. PLEASE tell me I'm right because I hate 3:2 pull down.

Hi, newbie here. I've done some research and am steering my dad towards either a a2020 or a3000. Can't have larger than 50 in screen and doesn't want to hang on wall. He's looked at the 50in sxrd a2000 at a local retailer and loves the picture.

He wants to buy the a2020 thinking that the a3000 will have bugs in the first run.

I say go with the a3000 and the new tech (i've read the thread).

Who's right?

Hi, newbie here. I've done some research and am steering my dad towards either a a2020 or a3000. Can't have larger than 50 in screen and doesn't want to hang on wall. He's looked at the 50in sxrd a2000 at a local retailer and loves the picture.

He wants to buy the a2020 thinking that the a3000 will have bugs in the first run.

I say go with the a3000 and the new tech (i've read the thread).

Who's right?

You are. The A3000 SHOULD be the A2000 with all the bugs worked out (color uniformity, butt ugly style). I'm waiting to see the A3000 in its new cabinet. Should be slim (I'm hearing 15" for the 55A3000) 3 HDMI ports, great new (120HZ) refresh rate.
I would hold out until July-Aug. when its released.

Great. I'll try and talk him into waiting until July-Aug. Should be way cool for football season.

I thought that with 120hz you don't have to mess with 3:2 pull down anymore. PLEASE tell me I'm right because I hate 3:2 pull down.That's how it should work. Each frame would be scanned 5 times (5*24=120), rather than having to scan alternating frames 3 times and 2 times ((3*24=72)+(2*24=48)) = (120/2=60).

I think that the math is correct here.

Any word if these will use new SXRD panels with improved BL and CR?

At least we will get judder free PQ for the first time in a Microdisplay RP...

http://ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/1206sonykdsr60xbr2/index4.html

This site appears to indicate you need to manually engage 3:2 pulldown detection, but it does seem to work on the XBR2.

First off let me say I haven't read every thread on avs forum...So, can you please give me a quick layman's explanation on why this should or shouldn't be important to me as I consider purchasing a XBR2, A2020 or potentially XBR3/A3000 at year's end?

I appreciate your input in advance....Kevin

iumbastu - two reasons, first you have to decide if the new models have enough major improvements, in the areas that are important to you, to justify waiting for the new model to be available AND paying the usually significantly higher price they will come out at. You may only care about picture quality, or you may need a slimmer cabinet because of a small room, or you may want upgraded connections for gaming, PC, etc. Second, if you decide that the current year set meets your needs, then you have the issue of buying today at full price and then seeing your set drop in price significantly as the manufacturer and dealers clear out the "old" model. The XBR2 has been out since last June, practically prehistoric as HDTV technology is evolving rapidly.

Anyone that would buy a Sony product after the way they have screwed the owners of the XBR1s and A2000's is an idiot. Don't do it!

Anyone that would buy a Sony product after the way they have screwed the owners of the XBR1s and A2000's is an idiot. Don't do it!Lets take a look at your one other post:Just a note..... if something locks up on you it is not good. It is a piece of crap. I know that misery loves company but don't try and push it on someone else. (This was regarding a DVD/VHS recorder.)

I wonder if we'll get any more useful nuggets of brilliance from our resident expert on video technology anytime soon? They're such useful posts, adding so many dimensions of helpful knowledge to these threads!!

iumbastu - two reasons, first you have to decide if the new models have enough major improvements, in the areas that are important to you, to justify waiting for the new model to be available AND paying the usually significantly higher price they will come out at. You may only care about picture quality, or you may need a slimmer cabinet because of a small room, or you may want upgraded connections for gaming, PC, etc. Second, if you decide that the current year set meets your needs, then you have the issue of buying today at full price and then seeing your set drop in price significantly as the manufacturer and dealers clear out the "old" model. The XBR2 has been out since last June, practically prehistoric as HDTV technology is evolving rapidly.

Parrot, Thanks for the input...seems I need to do a bit more research and give some more thought into what I want. As you clearly indicated it sounds like the optimal tipping point for purchasing may be waiting until the details on next year's models are published (to determine which one fits my needs the best) and then jump in when pricing gets to a point that's comfortable for my wallet (either after the new model is released and pay a premium or go the value route with last year's model at lower price if PQ and feature set meets my needs.) The last thing I want is to have buyer's remorse 6 months after purchasing a $2-5K TV (60" or 70" XBR# or AX000)

then jump in when pricing gets to a point that's comfortable for my wallet (either after the new model is released and pay a premium or go the value route with last year's model at lower price if PQ and feature set meets my needs.) The last thing I want is to have buyer's remorse 6 months after purchasing a $2-5K TV (60" or 70" XBR# or AX000)

the wait never seems to end. i was working under a simmilar plan for years. and you know what, by the time one years sets got to my price point there was info out about the next years sets. so i waited and said the same thing "thats the one i'm gonna get when the price drops" and yet again by the time the price dropped i realized i really liked what i was hearing about the new model. so i waited again. finally i just said screw it and got an XBR2. am i glad i waited? yes. do i see things in the new models i wish i had waited for? yes. do i have buyers remorse? nope.

SONY KDS70R2000 PROJECTION TV:
http://www.totaldigital.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1909

I don't know much info on this, will post it when known.

its just a 70inch xbr2 thats out in the US for the UK.

SXRD RPTV with Laser Engine (photo attached). It looks very sexy.

SXRD RPTV with Laser Engine (photo attached). It looks very sexy.That's the expected 2008 model. The 2007 model is not expected to use LED.

SXRD RPTV with Laser Engine (photo attached). It looks very sexy.

i hope the 2007 XBR3 looks liek that, it is pretty sexy.

the wait never seems to end. i was working under a simmilar plan for years. and you know what, by the time one years sets got to my price point there was info out about the next years sets. so i waited and said the same thing "thats the one i'm gonna get when the price drops" and yet again by the time the price dropped i realized i really liked what i was hearing about the new model. so i waited again. finally i just said screw it and got an XBR2. am i glad i waited? yes. do i see things in the new models i wish i had waited for? yes. do i have buyers remorse? nope.


I concur. if you keep waiting for all the right features at the right price, you may never get your set. i waited 4 years for the features of the xbr2 and have no regrets. one other thing that motivated me to purchase late last year was the emergence of hd content. a year ago not a lot of prime time, sport ota hd, or hd only channels. now dish give me 26+ hd only channels plus ota channels, plus hd dvd. why wait. i barely watch sd anymore when i have so many hd choices.

I, too, am deciding between the xbr2 and xbr3 (and their corresponding Ax000 series). It seems like these are the best 50-60" displays out there. Black level, contrast ratio, color seem to be top of the line for any non-CRT TV, and no need to worry about burn-in.

120 Hz refresh rate would be nice, but the dealbreaker for me is whether the xbr3 will be defect free.

This is a tough choice for me as well. As much as I want to buy my TV now (March Madness, etc.), I think what I may end up doing is waiting until details/pricing are announced for the XBR3 series and if the new features/cosmetics are not worth the price premium to me, I will buy an XBR2 at hopefully a very good price (if I can still find one). And if I really like the XBR3, I'll get one of those.

Hopefully the wait until we get some official info isn't more than a few months long.

I thought that with 120hz you don't have to mess with 3:2 pull down anymore. PLEASE tell me I'm right because I hate 3:2 pull down.

You still have to figure out how to take 540 lines, transmitted 60 times a second into 120 full 1080-line frames. So you haven't helped the problem of deinterlacing at all. You have only eliminated judder. Each CORRECTLY-ASSEMBLED frame can be displayed 5 times, instead of a 3, 2, 3, 2, etc. count. Unfortunately, your TV's electronics still need to figure out how to put a full 1080-line frame together from 1080i, and that's where the XBR is better than the lower-end SXRDs.

A few important points need to be made.

A thinner cabinet design is NOT a good thing for picture quality.
There are good reasons why RPTV’s have been as deep as they are. It’s very difficult to get acceptable performance out of thinner designs.
The “thin” models are there to satisfy the demand for thin displays, not to improve performance. In fact it is very likely that performance will be compromised to satisfy fashion.

I am fascinated why people are hanging out for HDMI 1.3, as it offers no improvement in video quality over 1.1 or 1.2 as far as I can see.
All domestic video is mastered using 24bit color (8bits for each primary) and uses the standard color gamut. (that includes BluRay and HDDVD)
A display with a wider gamut will display oversaturated colors, and having an interface that supports greater color depth seems pointless since the source does not also support it.

120Hz operation offers no advantage over 24Hz for film source as far as I can see. Repeating frames on a display that updates rather then refreshes is pointless as there is no blanking or black period between frames (you would see flicker if there was). No data has changed between the repeated frames so no visible screen update occurs.
The only up side of 120Hz operation is that it’s simple and cheaper to implement then a multi sync display and addresses the judder of 60Hz.
The interesting thing is that the SXRD sold in Australia (XBR2 equivalents) already accept 1080p 48 from a PC for perfect display of film source as well as 1080p 50 and 1080p 60. No need for 120Hz.

The SXRD’s sold here are manufactured in Japan and not one case of green blob/haze or other color uniformity issue has been reported by any owner. So it would seem that Sony is capable of producing problem free SXRD optical blocks.

Unless new models can improve on black levels or offer some other tangible picture quality advantage (very doubtful) I can’t get excited about them.

As for size, I place my vote for an 80”. The very same day I installed my 70” I knew I would go for an 80” if it was available, even at my viewing distance of 9-10’.

I am in the process of modifying my SXRD to improve black level and contrast ratio.
So far I have managed to improve black level and contrast ratio by 30%, and with further mods I expect to realize a total reduction in black level of 70% below standard, and a contrast ratio improvement of around 40% or maybe more.
These improvements are possible because Sony has taken short cuts in manufacture as well as optimised the set for bright viewing environments.
These compromises can be easily overcome.

I will post a report on my modified SXRD when I have completed my little project. :D

Owen,

Thanks in advance for posting a report when you finish, but just very quickly, are these mods hardware or software?

The 30% improvement in black level and contrast ratio I have already achieved was gained via service menu tweaks, while the rest will require hardware mods.

That's the expected 2008 model. The 2007 model is not expected to use LED.

I don't know man. They've showed a set like that for the last two years at CES. I think it could very well be the XBR3 we're expecting to see later this year.

The posted picture does look great; however, that looks thinner than the rumored specs.
I want a 60" to put in an entertainment center, so depth isn't as big a deal for me as the price (and knocking off those wing speakers that push the tv over my 65" width limitations).

You still have to figure out how to take 540 lines, transmitted 60 times a second into 120 full 1080-line frames. Where do you get the 540 line figure? A film has a virtually unlimited number of lines. If the conversion process from film to digital is done properly, the only thing of concern would be frame rate. There would be no deinterlacing involved.

If you are referring to the SD to HD conversion process, yes, there is a limitation. However, it is actually 240 lines (one field) transmitted 60 times a second or 480 lines (one frame) transmitted 30 times a second.

Thankfully, as more and more video gets mastered in HD, that will become less of a problem.

The SXRD’s sold here are manufactured in Japan and not one case of green blob/haze or other color uniformity issue has been reported by any owner. So it would seem that Sony is capable of producing problem free SXRD optical blocks.How long have they been in circulation? I wonder what the difference is between your SXRD's and ours that would make yours more reliable? Same light engine, virtually the same cabinet and electronics.

As far as I know, most of the parts for our SXRDs are made in the same factories as Australia's and just assembled here. I doubt that differences in assembly lines would make that much of a difference.

Where do you get the 540 line figure? A film has a virtually unlimited number of lines. If the conversion process from film to digital is done properly, the only thing of concern would be frame rate. There would be no deinterlacing involved.

If you are referring to the SD to HD conversion process, yes, there is a limitation. However, it is actually 240 lines (one field) transmitted 60 times a second or 480 lines (one frame) transmitted 30 times a second.

Thankfully, as more and more video gets mastered in HD, that will become less of a problem.

The 540 lines displayed 60 times a second refers to 1080i. (1080/2 = 540)

The posted picture does look great; however, that looks thinner than the rumored specs.
I want a 60" to put in an entertainment center, so depth isn't as big a deal for me as the price (and knocking off those wing speakers that push the tv over my 65" width limitations).

Looks are deceiving - look closer - they have a gigantic hole cut in the back trying
to make the set look super thin - I saw the set at 2007 CES....

How long have they been in circulation? I wonder what the difference is between your SXRD's and ours that would make yours more reliable? Same light engine, virtually the same cabinet and electronics.

As far as I know, most of the parts for our SXRDs are made in the same factories as Australia's and just assembled here. I doubt that differences in assembly lines would make that much of a difference.

They have been on sale here for 5 months and they appear to be virtually identical to the US XBR2. There are obvious differences to power supplies and tuners, as well as electronics differences that allow our models to run at 48, 50, 60Hz and support PAL 576i and a 576p.

It was my understanding that the optical blocks used in US models came from Japan, but who knows if it’s the same factory or the exact same part, as the world model SXRD’s where released quite a bit later then the US XBR2.
I have a service manual for the US model and should soon have one for the Australian model, so I can compare part numbers for the optical blocks.

Not all local models are reliable. Our 60” appears to have a generic fault that causes random reboots which Sony have so far been unable to rectify, but the 70” seems completely trouble free so far (Touch wood).

This is a tough choice for me as well. As much as I want to buy my TV now (March Madness, etc.), I think what I may end up doing is waiting until details/pricing are announced for the XBR3 series and if the new features/cosmetics are not worth the price premium to me, I will buy an XBR2 at hopefully a very good price (if I can still find one). And if I really like the XBR3, I'll get one of those.

Hopefully the wait until we get some official info isn't more than a few months long.


Good discussion guys and thanks for your input. I see a lot of us are like minded and want to get the best set out there for our dollar.

I completely concur with this statement, "I will buy an XBR2 at hopefully a very good price (if I can still find one) if the new features and changes aren't important to me. And if I really like the XBR3, I'll get one of those.


Now I just have to hold off for a few months until the XBR3 and AX000 press release hits the wire.

Looks like I'll be waiting until 2008. I always wanted a glowy logo like the Q006 had...

I thought the price on the 70 XBR2 would have started going down by now as the 60 XBR2 has already dropped to about $2000 less than the 70. But it hasn't, and based on what I have read, it does not seem like the PQ in the XBR3 is going to improve measurably, and since PQ is my main interest, I think I am going to order the XBR2 now from the dealer in Spokane WA that we all know. I'm starting to worry that when Sony stops shipping the XBR2's in a few months, it may be hard to find one in stock. Also Sony has an 18 months no down payment, no payments, no interest deal which expires on 3/31. The dealer also has a save 2% off deal if you use their credit card, but I like the Sony deal better. If my luck holds the price will drop like a rock just as I'm plugging it in and I'll be tempted to stick my finger in the socket to punish myself for jumping the gun.

I thought the price on the 70 XBR2 would have started going down by now as the 60 XBR2 has already dropped to about $2000 less than the 70. But it hasn't, and based on what I have read, it does not seem like the PQ in the XBR3 is going to improve measurably, and since PQ is my main interest, I think I am going to order the XBR2 now from the dealer in Spokane WA that we all know. I'm starting to worry that when Sony stops shipping the XBR2's in a few months, it may be hard to find one in stock. Also Sony has an 18 months no down payment, no payments, no interest deal which expires on 3/31. The dealer also has a save 2% off deal if you use their credit card, but I like the Sony deal better. If my luck holds the price will drop like a rock just as I'm plugging it in and I'll be tempted to stick my finger in the socket to punish myself for jumping the gun.


Do it!! You won't regret it....I have the 70XBR2 and I am loving it everyday! ON day 3 of having it.

I wonder if the 2007 sxrds will have the processors currently in the Ruby. Check out this post in the BluRay/HD-DVD insiders thread:

"We had our usual AVS Forum meet where we demo'ed HD DVD on a 1080p projector, in this case, a Sony Ruby. To our surprise, we saw no motion judder. It seems that the Ruby is able to take the 1080i, perform inverse telecine, and then display the image at the proper 24fps frame rate! For example, the pans in Batman Begins were smooth as silk, matching our VP-50 processor that we use in HD DVD demos.

So kudos to Sony for doing the proper processing in their projector. If more displays do this, the whole notion of 24p output can become moot and people even with current players, can watch judder free images. And that is the beauty of 1080i in a way in that it does not lock in judder like 1080p60 might.

__________________
Amir
Microsoft (HD DVD insider)"

Given the price differential from the Ruby, and Qualia 004 before it (note that the Q006 did NOT see the same processing), it's not likely by itself. But 120Hz should solve all these problems, as well. What's more economical? I'm sure the one that's cheaper is the one we'll get.

Here you go gang. The XBR3 70 for sale, only $34,250. Maybe I'll get two, one for the bedroom. What a joke.

http://www.negrielectronics.com/product_info.php?currency=USD&products_id=170

Here you go gang. The XBR3 70 for sale, only $34,250. Maybe I'll get two, one for the bedroom. What a joke.

http://www.negrielectronics.com/product_info.php?currency=USD&products_id=170

Wrong TV - that is a LCD flat panel - not an SXRD RP...

I thought the price on the 70 XBR2 would have started going down by now as the 60 XBR2 has already dropped to about $2000 less than the 70. But it hasn't, and based on what I have read, it does not seem like the PQ in the XBR3 is going to improve measurably, and since PQ is my main interest, I think I am going to order the XBR2 now from the dealer in Spokane WA that we all know. I'm starting to worry that when Sony stops shipping the XBR2's in a few months, it may be hard to find one in stock. Also Sony has an 18 months no down payment, no payments, no interest deal which expires on 3/31. The dealer also has a save 2% off deal if you use their credit card, but I like the Sony deal better. If my luck holds the price will drop like a rock just as I'm plugging it in and I'll be tempted to stick my finger in the socket to punish myself for jumping the gun.

Who said they wouldn't have anything that would improve PQ...? I haven't heard anything saying there was, but then again I haven't heard anyone say there isn't, actually there has been very little info about the XBR3 besides some main stuff.

I wonder if the 2007 sxrds will have the processors currently in the Ruby. Check out this post in the BluRay/HD-DVD insiders thread:

"We had our usual AVS Forum meet where we demo'ed HD DVD on a 1080p projector, in this case, a Sony Ruby. To our surprise, we saw no motion judder. It seems that the Ruby is able to take the 1080i, perform inverse telecine, and then display the image at the proper 24fps frame rate! For example, the pans in Batman Begins were smooth as silk, matching our VP-50 processor that we use in HD DVD demos.

So kudos to Sony for doing the proper processing in their projector. If more displays do this, the whole notion of 24p output can become moot and people even with current players, can watch judder free images. And that is the beauty of 1080i in a way in that it does not lock in judder like 1080p60 might.

__________________
Amir
Microsoft (HD DVD insider)"

The Ruby must show it at a multiple of 24 (i.e., 48, 72, 96 or 120). At 24fps you would see "flicker", like the old movies.

That's the expected 2008 model. The 2007 model is not expected to use LED.

:) well being that I've already got a 60" I can wait till 08. That TV looks GREAT!!!!!!

I just want to get something without the "large"GWIII cabinet

120Hz operation offers no advantage over 24Hz for film source as far as I can see. Repeating frames on a display that updates rather then refreshes is pointless as there is no blanking or black period between frames (you would see flicker if there was). No data has changed between the repeated frames so no visible screen update occurs.
The only up side of 120Hz operation is that it’s simple and cheaper to implement then a multi sync display and addresses the judder of 60Hz.
Yes, thank you, that is what I was trying (badly, I guess) to articulate a few pages ago...

Doesn't say anything about HDMI 1.3. I thought that was going to be on the newer XBR models???

The point of higher refresh rates are to eliminate flicker.




120Hz operation offers no advantage over 24Hz for film source as far as I can see. Repeating frames on a display that updates rather then refreshes is pointless as there is no blanking or black period between frames (you would see flicker if there was). No data has changed between the repeated frames so no visible screen update occurs.
The only up side of 120Hz operation is that it’s simple and cheaper to implement then a multi sync display and addresses the judder of 60Hz. (Pretty darn good upside, don't you think?)



Yes, thank you, that is what I was trying (badly, I guess) to articulate a few pages ago...

You are really stuck on that "flicker" thing, aren't you walk ole buddy? (grin) Unfortunately, I think you highlighted the wrong part of Owen's post.

As others have tried to tell you (badly, I guess?), current SXRD's that refresh at 60HZ don't really have a problem with "flicker" to begin with so increasing the the refresh rate to 120Hz has nothing at all whatsoever to do with trying to eliminate this non-existent "flicker". I'm not sure why you seem to be so adamant about making the point that increasing the refresh rate to 120Hz has anything to do with flicker since that was never the intention behind making the change to begin with.

Increasing the refresh rate to 120Hz has everything to do with trying to come up with a simple and cheaper way to address the judder seen when converting 24 frame per second film sources to 60fps (simpler and cheaper than having a display with multiple different refresh rates for different sources, that is). Explain to us again why coming up with a simple and cheaper way to eliminate the judder seen in film sources is a bad thing.

Actually my point was that 72hz would be enough to eliminate "judder", and so I don't see the benefit of going any higher - since going beyond 72hz would only help eliminate "flicker" - which as you said (and I said, and everyone else has said...), these type of TVs do not suffer from.

Perhaps 120hz is nice since you don't need (expensive) multi-sync technology, but I never disputed that.

However, since I have never seen "judder" to be a major problem, with any type of display, I simply don't think 120hz is a feature really worth "waiting for" - if people are on the cusp of either picking up an A2000/2020 now, or waiting for the "2007" A3000s/etc... That's all.

72Hz doesn't help you with 30FPS and 60FPS sources. You would then need separate "modes" or what not to view both TV and film. 120Hz lets you see 24p film based content. 30 and 60fps video game and TV content, etc

I don't really consider judder to be a HUGE deal but it would be nice to not have it as a factor AT ALL, at least on an XBR level, top end HDTV. I could definitely see the lower end A3000/whatever not bothering to incoporate different frame rates, though.

Actually my point was that 72hz would be enough to eliminate "judder", and so I don't see the benefit of going any higher - since going beyond 72hz would only help eliminate "flicker" - which as you said (and I said, and everyone else has said...), these type of TVs do not suffer from.


No benefit? A fixed 72Hz display would indeed fix the judder with 24fps sources, but it would just introduce judder with 30/60fps sources. That would not be a good thing.

Perhaps 120hz is nice since you don't need (expensive) multi-sync technology, but I never disputed that.

If there's no problem with 120Hz- and you now understand the potential benefits-, I'm just not sure why you felt the need to bring up (and emphasize) the whole 120Hz/flicker thing again.


However, since I have never seen "judder" to be a major problem, with any type of display, I simply don't think 120hz is a feature really worth "waiting for" - if people are on the cusp of either picking up an A2000/2020 now, or waiting for the "2007" A3000s/etc... That's all.

I think that I follow your logic. So, since I have personally never seen a problem with rainbows on a DLP, people who are bothered by rainbows should just suck it up and buy a DLP now anyway- there's no point in waiting for (or even looking for?) a simple and cheap solution since it doesn't bother me?

No offense, but I think you're trying to reinvent your point. I don't want to tell you your business, but maybe you should have quit right after you said, "You're right, 120 is a multiple of 24 (and 30 and 60), I forgot about that." ;)

Just my $0.02

Um. Ok.

Why bring up flicker for LCOS? Like lcd's and dlp it doesn't flicker because of how it's drawn. They could have probably engineered the tv to draw only 24 updates a second for film if they wanted to, but it would have made the logic more complex then having everything set to 120hz and multiplying the original frame rate.

Actually my point was that 72hz would be enough to eliminate "judder", and so I don't see the benefit of going any higher - since going beyond 72hz would only help eliminate "flicker" - which as you said (and I said, and everyone else has said...), these type of TVs do not suffer from.

Perhaps 120hz is nice since you don't need (expensive) multi-sync technology, but I never disputed that.

However, since I have never seen "judder" to be a major problem, with any type of display, I simply don't think 120hz is a feature really worth "waiting for" - if people are on the cusp of either picking up an A2000/2020 now, or waiting for the "2007" A3000s/etc... That's all.Just to add my two cents worth:

There would be absolutetly no benefit running 24fps or 72fps versus 120fps. Do the math - 1/24=42ms per frame; 3/72=42ms per frame (each film frame repeated 3 times); 5/120=42ms per frame (each film frame repeated 5 times).

In addition, there are distinct disadvantages to doing 72fps: more complicated circuitry to allow the display to do multiple scan rates and greater lag switching from one scan rate to another.

C'mon now let the judder/flicker discussion die. We get it.

120hz does not eliminate flicker as the technology doesn't flicker in the first place.

120hz does eliminate judder for all three common framerates 24, 30, and 60.

C'mon now let the judder/flicker discussion die. We get it.

120hz does not eliminate flicker as the technology doesn't flicker in the first place.

120hz does eliminate judder for all three common framerates 24, 30, and 60.What the heck. Why not do 600Hz (fps), then there wouldn't be any changes needed to accomodate PAL too.

Because you'd still have a problem with 24fps?

Because you'd still have a problem with 24fps?No. 600fps is evenly divisible by 24. Each frame would repeat 25 times.

Ah yeah. Math > Me. Would help if I tried to calculated it. :D

120 does it too, though.

Not for PAL/SECAM, which are 25/50.

What the heck. Why not do 600Hz (fps), then there wouldn't be any changes needed to accomodate PAL too.

oh snap.

Why not standardize a global power delivery system while we're making wishes? :D

Guys, what if Sony announces the XBR3's in May and the only improvements are HDMI 1.3 and an updated version of DRC? Would you still pay a premium just for the HDMI 1.3 features?

Eh, those euro/PAL guys are on their own. ;) I just want 120. :D

If there was nothing new, I would not upgrade. I found no reason to upgrade my 60XBR1, though the 70" part of the 70XBR2 is mighty attractive. :D At this point, the only thing I'm thinking that will get me to upgrade is a 75XBR3 with 120hz and dual HD tuners. :D

what does dual HD tuners do compare to xbr2?

HD on both sides of Twin View. XBR2 does that about as well as the XBR1 (not at all - you only get SD on the right side and on Favorites, etc).

Thanks UxiSXRD.
This week, I talked to a Sony manager about xbr3, and he said currently there are no info on xbr3 RPTV even though many online forums brought up xbr3 topic. He said Sony is having excellent sales on their xbr2 sets.

Thanks UxiSXRD.
This week, I talked to a Sony manager about xbr3, and he said currently there are no info on xbr3 RPTV even though many online forums brought up xbr3 topic. He said Sony is having excellent sales on their xbr2 sets.



Of course he said that, he wants the interest to be on the current models and not shift to something that is not even out yet...

wadda_salad,
How could you possibly know that the XBR3's have the defect?

Please stop spamming every thread that mentions the Sony SXRD. Anybody who's done any research on them knows about the possibility of the "green blob." We're not morons.

Are there any DVD players out there that don't use 3:2 pull down, so you can take advantage of the 120 hz on this tv.

I'm sure it would be best to have a DVD player output 24 Hz and eliminate any chance of error, but surely these new 120 Hz displays will be smart enough to see a 60 Hz 3:2 cadence and do whatever needs to be done to get to 120 Hz with no judder, won't they?

All SXRD technology is defective in the same way. Similarly to Sony SXRD adopters, sort of 1/2 gene short of a full deck. Check out the Sony lawsuit. There is lots of info to prove the point that you have a defective TV.

I think unless you have an engineering degree or some sort of proof other then a bogus lawsuit for the XBR1 which was released in 2005, your going to look like you were hired by samsung. I think everyone here agrees if something isn't right we should complain and do something..but the xbr2 and kds2000/2020 series TVs are highly reguarded everywhere for their price and picture quality. If this was late 2005, some people might agree with you, but in early 2007 this is a bad joke.

wadda_salad,
How could you possibly know that the XBR3's have the defect?



A quote from Wadda could have saved much searching :(

my a2000 looks perfect with no such green blob. hell even the color uniformity is perfect with all white background.

Almost every Sony SXRD; or should I say, every Sony SXRD has a different color temperature display until the set warms up. This is noted by Sony to be a feature and not a defect. Many have an uneven color temperature, most typically a slight green shift in the center, until the set has been on about 30 to 60 min. Sony does not call this a feature and will change out the light engine if your local service center makes the decision to do so. I have this issue with my set. I am waiting to see if Sony actually figures out the technical end of this so that I can have some assurance that a replacment part will actually fix this issue. A bit fustrating especially considering that JVC owners don't seem to be reporting this type of situation with their versions of this technology. This would be one great set if:

1. Sony finally addresses the color temperature variation and shifting issues.

2. Sony adds a third rear HDMI input and the 1.3 HDMI audio/picture sync feature to all such inputs

3.Sony adds backlighting to its remote

4. Sony increases the vertical viewing angle (sweet spoot by another 20 degrees or so

It can get rid of the cable card and even the cable digital tuner since the technology is not up to date with industry standards (still in a state of flux - thanks FCC)

Richard

Almost every Sony SXRD; or should I say, every Sony SXRD has a different color temperature display until the set warms up. This is noted by Sony to be a feature and not a defect. Many have an uneven color temperature, most typically a slight green shift in the center, until the set has been on about 30 to 60 min. Sony does not call this a feature and will change out the light engine if your local service center makes the decision to do so. I have this issue with my set. I am waiting to see if Sony actually figures out the technical end of this so that I can have some assurance that a replacment part will actually fix this issue. A bit fustrating especially considering that JVC owners don't seem to be reporting this type of situation with their versions of this technology. This would be one great set if:
Richard

JVC does suffer from same problem as the Sony. I went through 2 Sony KDS60A2000's and 1 JVC 61FN97. ALl had the green problem. The JVC was not as bad as the SOny though.

I eventually returned the JVC aswell due to green haze and PQ not being acecptable for a tv that size and price.

Its a hit or miss with the Sony. The PQ on Sony KDS was the best I have seen but the green was too much for me to live with.

I would def try Sony again on a future purchase, maybe when the A3000 comes around.

JVC does suffer from same problem as the Sony. I went through 2 Sony KDS60A2000's and 1 JVC 61FN97. ALl had the green problem. The JVC was not as bad as the SOny though.

I eventually returned the JVC aswell due to green haze and PQ not being acecptable for a tv that size and price.

Its a hit or miss with the Sony. The PQ on Sony KDS was the best I have seen but the green was too much for me to live with.

I would def try Sony again on a future purchase, maybe when the A3000 comes around.Here's where I have to agree with umr and UxiSXRD. Any green haze that appears at startup on these sets usually goes away within 10-15 minutes. Any overall shading to the picture that is left after warmup can be adjusted out using the color balance settings in the menu.

Is there any new info about the 2007 SXRD models? I just sold my Pioneer Elite 610 and was going to get a 60 SXRD XBR2 but if they are getting ready to revamp them in Oct. and do all the things that were listed earlier in this thread, then I'm just going to hold off till then. Wonder how much of an increase in price these new features will add??

A few important points need to be made.

A thinner cabinet design is NOT a good thing for picture quality.
There are good reasons why RPTV’s have been as deep as they are. It’s very difficult to get acceptable performance out of thinner designs.
The “thin” models are there to satisfy the demand for thin displays, not to improve performance. In fact it is very likely that performance will be compromised to satisfy fashion.

I am fascinated why people are hanging out for HDMI 1.3, as it offers no improvement in video quality over 1.1 or 1.2 as far as I can see.
All domestic video is mastered using 24bit color (8bits for each primary) and uses the standard color gamut. (that includes BluRay and HDDVD)
A display with a wider gamut will display oversaturated colors, and having an interface that supports greater color depth seems pointless since the source does not also support it.

120Hz operation offers no advantage over 24Hz for film source as far as I can see. Repeating frames on a display that updates rather then refreshes is pointless as there is no blanking or black period between frames (you would see flicker if there was). No data has changed between the repeated frames so no visible screen update occurs.
The only up side of 120Hz operation is that it’s simple and cheaper to implement then a multi sync display and addresses the judder of 60Hz.
The interesting thing is that the SXRD sold in Australia (XBR2 equivalents) already accept 1080p 48 from a PC for perfect display of film source as well as 1080p 50 and 1080p 60. No need for 120Hz.

The SXRD’s sold here are manufactured in Japan and not one case of green blob/haze or other color uniformity issue has been reported by any owner. So it would seem that Sony is capable of producing problem free SXRD optical blocks.

Unless new models can improve on black levels or offer some other tangible picture quality advantage (very doubtful) I can’t get excited about them.

As for size, I place my vote for an 80”. The very same day I installed my 70” I knew I would go for an 80” if it was available, even at my viewing distance of 9-10’.

I am in the process of modifying my SXRD to improve black level and contrast ratio.
So far I have managed to improve black level and contrast ratio by 30%, and with further mods I expect to realize a total reduction in black level of 70% below standard, and a contrast ratio improvement of around 40% or maybe more.
These improvements are possible because Sony has taken short cuts in manufacture as well as optimised the set for bright viewing environments.
These compromises can be easily overcome.

I will post a report on my modified SXRD when I have completed my little project. :D

but see, people arent spending $6000 on a TV so they can play just the content that is out now. I always buy electronics that have features that arent in use yet. cause not only will it play back content now, but it will play back the content of the future. Hence the reason i have had my computer for years now and its been playing todays games with no problem. People were always like " why you spending that kidna money on your PC , no games even use that technology now" and thats why i have only gone through one video card and they have gone through like 3 .

Doesn't say anything about HDMI 1.3. I thought that was going to be on the newer XBR models???


its not gonna say " has HDMI version 1.3 " its gonna say the feature it has , liek deep color, 24p play back, which need HDMI 1.3 thast how you know it has HDMI 1.3. Sony said they werent gonna say the HDMI version name in the specs.

updatesupdatesupdatesupdatesupdatesupdatesupdatesupdatesupda tesupdatesupdatesupdates

how are there NO updates on the internet? It isn't like sony is producing this hidden at the center of the earth. Word should be spread about the xbr3 by now! JEeeezeee!

We didn't really know the scoop on the XBR2 until at least summer (I'd guest July or August or so) of last year...

Don't expect any more info until May or early June.

Do you need HDMI 1.3 for 1080/24p?

The other features of HDMI are largely irrelevant for a display. Even deep-color... since there are no deep-color sources.