Well, actually there are a lot, but now that I've had my Pioneer for awhile now, I still get a kick out of how it blows people away when they see it. I had my brother over to the house for a day of gaming on the 360. He has been up numerous times in the past, with the new Pioneer. However, this time he stopped playing a game and turned to me and asked if I did anything to my plasma recently. I said no, he said it looks better then it ever has. He kept going on how freaking incredible it was, gorgeous, etc. It was blowing him away all over again. :D

These sets truly do rock!!!

Hey Bill,

At what point do you see the cell structure on the screen? How close do you have to get in order to see the cell's? I'm currently debating 5070 or 6070, based on my viewing distance of about 18' from my couch. I'm afraid that the cell's will be visible when viewing from about 6' - 10'.

In your opinion, would you say that at 10', does your screen look as good as an FHD1 at the same distance while watching an HD-DVD or Blu Ray movie? This is what's currently holding me back, the quality of the picture at 10' and further. I'm hoping at that distance that it will look as good as the FHD1. I know it won't lookas good up close, but i'll never be closer than 8' to the tv.

P.S.

Can you post up your model # so that we can all have a reference as to which model you are referring to. :)

At 10' you won't notice cell structure. Inside of 10', I start noticing cell structure somewhat, but it still looks great up to 8'. After 8', it's pretty noticable, but I have watched from 7-8' before, and it doesn't look bad at all, just not perfect. BTW, I have the 6070 as well.

At 10' you won't notice cell structure. Inside of 10', I start noticing cell structure somewhat, but it still looks great up to 8'. After 8', it's pretty noticable, but I have watched from 7-8' before, and it doesn't look bad at all, just not perfect. BTW, I have the 6070 as well.

Yo thanks for the info Marky Mark. :D (sorry, couldn't resist)

So beyond 10' it looks as smooth as viewing an FHD1 at 6', for example? Have you viewed BR or HD-DVD movies on the set? If so, impressions?

I can start to see the cell structure on my 50" pioneer at ~6feet, and in stores I can start to see the cell structure on the 60" plasma around ~7feet.

As for does the 6070hd look as good at 10feet as the FHD1. I would say no. The FHD1 is a 1080p set, and your eyes will be able to detect a some of the benefits of 1080p at 9-10'. Beyond 10 feet you are going to get very little out of the 1080p set as far as benefits from increased resolution.

As for does the 6070hd look as good at 10feet as the FHD1. I would say no. The FHD1 is a 1080p set, and your eyes will be able to detect a some of the benefits of 1080p at 9-10'. Beyond 10 feet you are going to get very little out of the 1080p set as far as benefits from increased resolution.

So then the following example should hold true for the 6070:

If viewing distance is greater than 10', then a 720p set would be a great choice without sacrificing picture quality at those distances beyond 10'.

If viewing distance is less than 10', then a 1080p set would benefit in viewing greater detail without viewing the cell structure of the screen at the expense of paying alot more for the set.

P.S.

Can anyone, at their convenience, measure from base of stand to top of tv and then left edge of screen to right? I need to make sure this sucka will fit in my entertainment center. :o

So then the following example should hold true for the 6070:

If viewing distance is greater than 10', then a 720p set would be a great choice without sacrificing picture quality at those distances beyond 10'.

If viewing distance is less than 10', then a 1080p set would benefit in viewing greater detail without viewing the cell structure of the screen at the expense of paying alot more for the set.

P.S.

Can anyone, at their convenience, measure from base of stand to top of tv and then left edge of screen to right? I need to make sure this sucka will fit in my entertainment center. :o

Scroll down in this thread to bfdtv's post with the distance vs resolution graph. Very nice graph that should help answer most of your questions. Keep in mind, the graph is for 20/20 vision, and my vision is actually better (unassisted even :eek: ) so I can pick up detail a little further away than most.

Scroll down in this thread to bfdtv's post with the distance vs resolution graph.

That is a great chart which i saw in the other 5070/FHD1 thread(s). I was just wondering what it was from a humans eye-ball perspective rather than basing it on a chart. The chart is a good reference guide, though.

Hey Bill,

At what point do you see the cell structure on the screen? How close do you have to get in order to see the cell's? I'm currently debating 5070 or 6070, based on my viewing distance of about 18' from my couch. I'm afraid that the cell's will be visible when viewing from about 6' - 10'.

In your opinion, would you say that at 10', does your screen look as good as an FHD1 at the same distance while watching an HD-DVD or Blu Ray movie? This is what's currently holding me back, the quality of the picture at 10' and further. I'm hoping at that distance that it will look as good as the FHD1. I know it won't lookas good up close, but i'll never be closer than 8' to the tv.

P.S.

Can you post up your model # so that we can all have a reference as to which model you are referring to. :)

6070

I agree with what everyone here is saying. At 10' I'm not noticing any cells. Flawless, stunning picture. I probably have to get to 6' before I start seeing "something" but it still looks stunning. I have to get a lot closer before they really pop out.

Raven,

If you can go to a local Best Buy and see if you can stand those distances away. In the end, it all comes down to your vision, and how well you are at percieving details at certain distances. My vision is very good, and I have a large attention to detail/etc, so I will notice things before most will. However, I will say, if you are choosing between the FHD1 and 6070HD, i would try to make the 6070HD work. Bigger screen is always a bonus, and it would even end up cheaper than the FHD1 if you looked around a bit. But first start at seeing it in person, and let your eyes lead you down the right path for you.

As for William and the original topic, it is a lot of fun seeing relatives come over and just drool over your set, isn't it? ;)

Also, the black levels of the 5070 and 6070 is better than the FHD-1 from what I've seen and also read. So if you can make one of them work, I think the PQ is actually better from the right distances.

Thanks fellas. All of this wonderful info is greatly appreciated. It's hard to go to the store and look at the sets as i never get too much time as i'm usually chasing around my 2 year old daughter who LOVES to touch all the pretty colored buttons in the electronics department. :D

Anyway, today i'm getting out early from work to put in some time in viewing the 5070/6070 at my local BB's (which are stacked on top of one another) to get some impressions. I also have 20/10 vision so i'm hoping that what i see really sells me on going with the 5070/6070.

There's just something in the back of my mind that tells me "1080p is better than 720p; period" so i need to get out of that mentality. Am i trying to fool myself in believing that 720p is equal to or better than 1080p? In hearing everyone's opinion, it sounds like that just may be fact; especially at the distance that i will be viewing the set from. Cheers.

Have you viewed BR or HD-DVD movies on the set? If so, impressions?Run a search for PioManiac. He has the 5070 with BR and HDDVD - he's posted some good screen shots if you'd like to see how it performs. Just by going by his pics alone I'm impressed with with both formats on the Pioneer.

I don't notice any cells until I am standing about 5-6 feet away from my Pio 5070. A normal, sane seating distance for me is about 7-8 feet.

But yea, I still get that same wow factor. Gears of War. :)

There's just something in the back of my mind that tells me "1080p is better than 720p; period" so i need to get out of that mentality. Am i trying to fool myself in believing that 720p is equal to or better than 1080p? In hearing everyone's opinion, it sounds like that just may be fact; especially at the distance that i will be viewing the set from. Cheers.If you haven't already, scan through the Official "1080p Vs. 720p" Thread Discussion (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768167). There is more discussion on this which may help you make a decision and hopefully not make the decision harder.

There's just something in the back of my mind that tells me "1080p is better than 720p; period" so i need to get out of that mentality. Am i trying to fool myself in believing that 720p is equal to or better than 1080p? In hearing everyone's opinion, it sounds like that just may be fact; especially at the distance that i will be viewing the set from. Cheers.

Here, I read this on the main article today posted on the front page of the web site....this is a great way to sum up picture quality...

In fact, a recent SMPTE (Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers) study found that the four aspects of a picture that the human eye “sees”—in order of importance - are:

1. Contrast Ratio/Dynamic Range
2. Color Saturation
3. Colorimetry/Color Temperature or Grayscale
4. Resolution

So, all else being equal, resolution is actually the last item on the list in terms of picture quality and evaluation. High contrast ratio and accurate, deep color reproduction are generally greater contributors to overall perceived quality.


While 1080p is a part of your overall picture quality, it is just one part. Other things are more important, especially at a reasonable viewing distance w.r.t. to the size of the display.

Dustin

So i went to BB and looked at both sets in a side-by-side comparison. The 5070 & 6070 are indeed twins. Picture was equal on both sets, however with the bigger 60" screen, everything seemed more pronounced (i.e. larger body to view more detail). At 6' i could not see any cells and the further back i went, the smoother it got. When i got to my rooms viewing distance, the picture was clear and sharp; even on their semi-descent HD feed. I'm pretty much sold on the set, now i just need to know what size to go with. Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this. Hopefully others will get some good info by viewing some of these posts.

My 5070 is great. No reason to step up to 1080p. SD looks better at 768p than 1080p ... SD is still the majority of video material today. It will be at least a decade before the majority of HD material starts to approach critical mass. Already seeing complaints with Blueray users that the source material on the disc is the limiting factor.

So i went to BB and looked at both sets in a side-by-side comparison. The 5070 & 6070 are indeed twins. Picture was equal on both sets, however with the bigger 60" screen, everything seemed more pronounced (i.e. larger body to view more detail). At 6' i could not see any cells and the further back i went, the smoother it got. When i got to my rooms viewing distance, the picture was clear and sharp; even on their semi-descent HD feed. I'm pretty much sold on the set, now i just need to know what size to go with. Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this. Hopefully others will get some good info by viewing some of these posts.

You definitely did the right thing by checking out the TV's at BB I always recommend it since I can't always send customers to my showroom it might not be the best feed they use but it gives you a good idea :)