http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/bettercables-hdmi-switcher-2-2007.html

Better Cables "Sale" price $349.95
http://www.bettercables.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=6

The same OEM switch is offered by MonoPrice for $88.73
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2&style=

I was reading this recent Secrets review of the Better Cables HDMI switch and thought that switch looked familiar as I own a MonoPrice HDMI switch. It's true, it is everything you would want in a switch, small size, discreet inputs, no impact on the picture. And it's true the LEDs are bright with no dim/off option (but I don't care as I have a dedicated equipment room). Oh, and it has the smallest power plug transformer I've ever seen.

*sarcasm on*
Good journalism Secrets, not mentioning that while it may be a great switch, Better Cables is selling it for nearly 4x the cost as MonoPrice. Way to keep the faith alive that reviews aren't advertisements.
*sarcasm off*

Seriously though, I like Secrets and this is really just another example of why MonoPrice is awesome.

BTW, it was the remote that I noticed first. Anyone with a new MonoPrice switch can tell you it's the same. I wonder, did Better Cables just order them off the MonoPrice website because if you get 50 or more they're only $75. Not a bad business model if you can figure out how they got the Secrets review.

That's a pretty low markup compared to how much more a lot of sellers charge for HDMI cables. They may not be selling the exact same cable, but in many cases, I bet the cables come from the same cable manufacturer and just have different outer casings and plug moldings. But it's quite easy to go to Best Buy and find gear equivalent to what Monoprice sells marked up much more than 4x.

There's so much money to be made from suckers. Sometimes I wish I were evil enough to claim it.

The Better Cable deal is actually very good if you consider that they will toss in "TWO 1m Silver Serpent Reference 1080p HDMI cables FREE (value of $139.90)!". At monoprice you will have to shell out approx. another $5/each. Obviously those cannot be as good, in particular since you definitely need to have those silver reference materials for HDMI at a length of 1m. [/sarcasm off]
What a rip off!
_____
Axel

Need the silver cables eh? What about those "gold" plated OPTICAL cables. I just laugh every time I see those. The first rule of monoprice club is you only buy from monoprice.com

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/bettercables-hdmi-switcher-2-2007.html

Better Cables "Sale" price $349.95
http://www.bettercables.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=6

The same OEM switch is offered by MonoPrice for $88.73
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2&style=

I was reading this recent Secrets review of the Better Cables HDMI switch and thought that switch looked familiar as I own a MonoPrice HDMI switch. It's true, it is everything you would want in a switch, small size, discreet inputs, no impact on the picture. And it's true the LEDs are bright with no dim/off option (but I don't care as I have a dedicated equipment room). Oh, and it has the smallest power plug transformer I've ever seen.

*sarcasm on*
Good journalism Secrets, not mentioning that while it may be a great switch, Better Cables is selling it for nearly 4x the cost as MonoPrice. Way to keep the faith alive that reviews aren't advertisements.
*sarcasm off*

Seriously though, I like Secrets and this is really just another example of why MonoPrice is awesome.

Wow! Good catch. The funny thing is that I knew about both of these products and wondered why the BetterCables version cost so much more. I never even noticed that it was the same product. :rolleyes:

I see this got picked up by Geek With Family (http://geekwithfamily.com/2007/02/25/home-theater/hdmi-twins-is-bettercables-selling-an-89-hdmi-switcher-for-350/) and then that was picked up by Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/hdmi-ripoffs-continue-89-hdmi-switcher-selling-for-350-239589.php) .

The Geek on Family guy found Comects (http://www.comects.com/neptune_switcher_eng.asp) and Belikin (http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=281816#) are also selling overpriced MonoPrice clones.

Worse, Secrets also gave the Comects 3 input switch a positive review (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/comects-neptune-hdmi-switcher-flat-hdmi-cable-11-2006.html) even calling its $222 price "inexpensive". My reply is here: http://hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?p=25832#post25832

Just dropping in, but does this decent quality thing extend across the whole monoprice line? I need a 5.1 switcher, to get and sacd player and a dvd-a player into my pre/pro. Had a recommendation to get the Zektor, but they're going for at least 259; went to monoprice, they have one that at least has the same connections, if not the flashy look, for 32 bucks. Any ideas/experience? thanks.

Open letter to Secrets of Home Theater

Secrets of Home Theater favorably reviewed two HDMI switches that looked suspiciously the same as ones from MonoPrice that are far cheaper. For the details please see the reaction from the Geek With Family (http://geekwithfamily.com/2007/02/25/home-theater/hdmi-twins-is-bettercables-selling-an-89-hdmi-switcher-for-350/) (and the update (http://geekwithfamily.com/2007/02/26/home-theater/update-more-hdmi-switch-controversy-belkin-vs-monoprice/)) and Gizmodo blogs. I responded directly to Secrets in their forums. Their reaction was to delete my account, ban me, and lock the thread – although not before getting the last word in including an odd personal attack on me.

"Admin: LOL - The chipsets may not be the same in these products. Jadeonly's statements sound very much like those from a certain turkey on another website whose disdain for fancy cables makes everyone mock him. It's amusing he thinks no one knows his identity. Unfortunately for him, our readership doesn't dial 911. Jadeonly needs to take his tricycle and ride it on the freeway like his mommy wants him to."

Anyway, here's my response and then I'll fade away

You don't mention the MonoPrice switch in your reviews and justify that by saying the chipset "may" be different? Is it? If so what is this $200 chipset upgrade providing me, because the MonoPrice HDMI switch works (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640183) very well. If only there was website that investigated technical details like chipsets and ran comparisons and benchmarks (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html). :) If it helps I'll open up my MonoPrice switch (as long as it can be done without breaking it) and take some photos.
I'm not that "turkey". I've only ever posted as jadeonly. After I was deleted I did try registering again as jadeonly2 to post this rebuttal.
I've never hid my identity, I'm Jade Ohlhauser of Calgary, Alberta. Here's my boring blog: http://thejadeddeveloper.com/
My mom never let me ride on the freeway. Of course the closest thing to a freeway in my rural childhood was the road that was paved.


Maybe I caught the admin on a bad day or maybe the truth hurts. Either way, I remain a Secrets fan because of things like the DVD benchmark. My problem with the reviews in question is that they claim those other switches are "inexpensive" without addressing the possibility that they from the same OEM provider as the MonoPrice switch that is almost ¼ the cost.

Jade Ohlhauser AKA jadeonly

LOL, I see Secrets has now reworded their post to be nicer:
"Admin: LOL - The chipsets may not be the same in these products. Jadeonly's statements sound very much like those from a certain turkey on another website whose disdain for fancy cables makes everyone mock him. It's amusing he thinks no one knows his identity. Unfortunately for him, our readership doesn't dial 911. Jadeonly needs to take his tricycle and ride it on the freeway like his mommy wants him to."
Is now
"As I said, the chipsets may not be the same in these products. OEM companies can tweak the circuits for each individual customer's specifications. That is the purpose of an OEM supplier. But, if they are the same internally, then the Monoprice version does represent the better bargain."

http://hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5309

Well, Jade, if it makes you feel better, there is at least one poster, over in bluray, I think, who replaced his monoprice switcher with a Beldin, and it fixed his problems. All the problems he had with the monoprice went away with the Beldin. (which also looks the same, over on the Geek site.) He started the thread earlier, but today the Beldin solved the problem. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799848

Secrets have lost all credibility a long time ago.

That site is nothing more than a shill for Denon, which is why they'll never touch the FLI23xx macroblocking issue in the same way as they have treated CUE. How can players with the FLI23xx MB bug continue to get the highest marks? Why is there no deduction for MB as there is with CUE? Why is the MB issue NEVER mentioned in the reviews:

Because their two largest sponsors are Denon and Oppo, who continue to use these defective chipsets, nearly 4 years after this problem has been brought to light.

Well, Jade, if it makes you feel better, there is at least one poster, over in bluray, I think, who replaced his monoprice switcher with a Beldin, and it fixed his problems. All the problems he had with the monoprice went away with the Beldin. (which also looks the same, over on the Geek site.) He started the thread earlier, but today the Beldin solved the problem. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799848

Are you saying I should have read that post before linking to it to support my case? :) JK, I did read that and those million-page in depth threads are what I like most about AVS. I scoured AVS before buying my own MonoPrice switch.

Secrets have lost all credibility a long time ago.

That site is nothing more than a shill for Denon, which is why they'll never touch the FLI23xx macroblocking issue in the same way as they have treated CUE. How can players with the FLI23xx MB bug continue to get the highest marks? Why is there no deduction for MB as there is with CUE? Why is the MB issue NEVER mentioned in the reviews:

Because their two largest sponsors are Denon and Oppo, who continue to use these defective chipsets, nearly 4 years after this problem has been brought to light.

Good to know and here I am in love with my Oppo. Way to take me down a peg flyingvee.

Wasn't trying to take you down a peg - I just thought it was cute, after Geek pointed out the identical externals, and you brought it to our attention (and THANKS), here is a poster who sees a huge difference. There are also people who see a huge difference between the 6 dollar cables and the 100 dollar ones. Just not me.

But, fwiw, the second quote should be attributed to the one who posted it, Axatax. I just picked up a Denon 3800 and love it. If it sucks, I'm unaware of it.

Wasn't trying to take you down a peg - I just thought it was cute, after Geek pointed out the identical externals, and you brought it to our attention (and THANKS), here is a poster who sees a huge difference. There are also people who see a huge difference between the 6 dollar cables and the 100 dollar ones. Just not me.

But, fwiw, the second quote should be attributed to the one who posted it, Axatax. I just picked up a Denon 3800 and love it. If it sucks, I'm unaware of it.

I agree with using quality cables, there are scientific reasons why some cables will f'up your signal. I also think there are some applications where quality in cables are more important (analogue interconnects) than others (power). That said, the "secret" :) is that the MonoPrice cables are high quality. I don't know how they do that and have the lowest prices, but they do it. Personally, I'm going to stick with Blue Jeans (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm) for my interconnects, component, and speaker cable, and I really have no issue for someone who feels that way about any cable - even Monster (http://monstercable.com/) - even Nordost (http://www.nordost.com/). I just want honesty about what you're getting. If you feel that solid click of the connector and beautiful casing is worth a thousand dollars - the more power to you. (pun intended)

What I hate is the mystery and even worse, the false science. I would have been perfectly happy if Secrets acknowledged the MonoPrice switch, even if the conclusion was something like "Exterior similarities aside, without technical details we can't be sure the MonoPrice is as good until we test it." Or whatever. Even if it required the existance of MonoPrice being pointed out to them after the fact (so much for journalism).

When I asked Sherwood what's different between my P-965 and an Outlaw 990 they didn't say "magic".

PS - I would like to see the type of person you mentioned "pass" a double blind test of any HDMI cable vs. the equivalent MonoPrice HDMI cable. There's enough places to pour money into hardware in the search for legitimate performance gains without blowing it on things like gold plated optical cables (http://www.bettercables.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=97). (I know they don't claim that helps, it's just such an easy target) :)

Unless, of course, you admit your home theater goal is really what it is for all of us geeks at some level - impressing other home theater geeks.

you guys don't know what you're talking about, I'm sad to say.

Disclosure: I'm a senior editor at Secrets.

It's not a front for anything, AFAIK.

Here's how I get to do reviews:
1. Either a company approaches me and asks for a review, or I approach a company and ask them for a product to review. I usually get the product locally since I'm also the owner fo hometheater.co.il - an israeli online magazine / forum system for hometheater products.

2. I get the product, review it and send it back.

I often don't look around, particularly when it's a simple product, if there are competitor systems that cost 10% of the original. If there and I want to - I'll review them too...

I have no idea who approached who in this case, but it doesn't matter. There are DVD players that cost 100X what the oppo costs (e.g., Meridian systems, the denon 5910) and people review both the oppo and those high end units...

An HDMI switch has the typical 3% margin (that's what my dad calls a product that costs $3 to produce and retails for $100)... The same applies to cables (I'm a big believer that cable differences are in people's minds and pockets, not in their eyes or ears), and many other products with a 3% margin...

When you do a review, you check if the product is any good and if it does what it claims. When you get the cheaper one, if that's good too - then that'll get a better rating...

About Secrets losing all credibility, I should hope not. I certainly don't think so, or I would never have joined that team.

Ofer - (just so I don't get banned :)) - got no problem with Secrets. Thanks to them, I got my first Denon 1600. Would have grabbed the Panny, but since they were a "hot item," I ended up getting a new overpriced, rebadged 1600 for the same price as a used, secondary market Panny 82.

The external similarity between the 4 switchers is interesting; but as you say, unless you knew about the two (an how many did before yesterday,) how would you ever know? I doubt if Better Cables or Beldin told anyone. If this doesn't die down (and realistically, it will disappear within a week,) the higher priced suppliers could always propose and participate in a showdown. Or, if things are indeed the same, then Monoprice could propose one. :)

Got no problems with Secrets - there are way to many reviews where they are unimpressed with the item being reviewed to be "shills." There are lots of sites and mags I don't go to, simply because of the credibility gap, starting in the way back with Julian Hirsch and Stereo Review. AFAIC, Secrets are wearing the white hats.

Disclosure: I'm a senior editor at Secrets.

Try this perspective. What if Better Cables took an OEM product and silkscreened their logo on it and offered it for sale at 4 times the price and the reviewers went along with it with a glowing review? Who is going to ask questions and take this company to task?

The Secrets DVD benchmark is such a great attempt at cutting through BS and is why I was so surprised about the switch reviews.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/bettercables-hdmi-switcher-2-2007.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/comects-neptune-hdmi-switcher-flat-hdmi-cable-11-2006.html

When you don't you leave it up to us forum trolls and that's when it gets messy. BTW, the "joke" in the title of this thread referred to the product not the review. Maybe that wasn't clear, but was it reason enough to bring my mother into it?

So, any chance of a Secrets HDMI switch shootout? Even just of the "family":
$88.73 MonoPrice 5x1 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2&style=)
$67.46 MonoPrice 3x1 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=3029&seq=1&format=2&style=)
$350 better Cables 5x1 (http://www.bettercables.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=33)
$222 Neptune 3x1 (http://www.comects.com/neptune_switcher_eng.asp)
$200 Belkin 3x1 (http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=281816#)

A few years back, Stereophile published a glowing review of a quite expensive moving coil cartridge. Later, it emerged that this cartridge was simply a rebadged version of an existing cartridge which sold for around half the price - IIRC. Stereophile claimed not to be aware of the existing cartridge, or at least not aware they were the same.

Regardless of whether Sterophile's claim was true or not, they suffered a substantial loss in credibility as a result.

When a publication, print or electronic, sets itself up as an expert resource and reviews on the basis of having sufficient expertise to do so, then it is subject to the scrutiny of its readers. Being ignorant of competing products just tells me the reviewer lacks expertise.

The review of a product is at least in part a comparative exercise. Not just how well a product performs its task, or a rehash of what's in the manual, but how well it does so compared to other available products. Given that Secrets has made its name on comparative benchmarking, it is ironic to see them review products in total isolation, and apparent ignorance, from competitive products. Such reviews hold little value. But I would have held out the hope that the reviewer would do at least a little research into the market. The moderator's comment, with regard to his "other job", did not assure me that Secrets demands this of its reviewers - pity.

But Secrets is not the real villain here, with the exception of the immature and unprofessional response to Jade advising them of the errors of their way.

The real value from this thread comes from the insight into Better Cables marketing / pricing model. Here is a company that positioned itself on basic, good quality cable with no snake oil and hence no big mark up. Not to mention centralised distribution and cutting out middle men. And they have become successful, with good reviews etc. Now they see their brand as a Monster or Audioquest, and advertise and price their products accordingly. As a result, companies like Blue Jeans Cable, Signal Cable and Monoprice have stepped into the value for money area. More power to them.

And thanks to Jade for "keeping them honest", and for educating us.

All I know is I had to throw away my first 35 foot HDMI cable (from bettercables :rolleyes: ) because of all the sparklies. Switched it out for a mono and have never had a single dot! :eek: Actually now I run 2 of them to my pj... :)