We talked about how you can do it with the Polaroid model. Then I told him I heard that you cannot upgrade the Pioneer drive, or any other drive from the major manufacturers. I asked him if it was a different hard drive or if it had a different, custom interface than standard IDE.

He said that it is just a standard 160 GB hard drive - but that the reason you can't upgrade it, is because there is "special software" on the hard drive that is required in order for the system to recognize and run with it.

I am thinking about this - and I know you can use various types of software to mirror one drive onto another, byte-by-byte. However, I am not aware of a way to mirror the boot track 0, and the boot sector. They undoubtedly have special coding on that sector that identifies the drive to the system. Also, they may have special handshaking going on between the drive and the system where it has to be exactly 160 GB, and have the exact same number of cylinders. The system may check all that when you turn the system ON. So I tend to believe him, that it is not possible.

PCdoc
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Aside from the issue you mention, prior posts have indicated that the Pioneers have a battery-backed anti-tamper circuit which will disable the machine if you remove the HDD or even the DVD drive, even if you do it with the unit unplugged. You need a special service remote (NOT the regular remote) to enter an activation code in order to get the unit working again.

Wow- I am glad you posted this Sean!! Guess I won't be buying a Pio 640 afterall. If I can't at least replace a failed 160hdd with a new 160hdd, or replace a failed DVD burner if necessary then I have zero interest in owning a 640. Thanks for the info!

Exactly why I own the polaroid and now 2 RCAs. You can do the upgrades in those high dollar machines, it just takes too much time searching for the knowledge and many more dollars in equipment if you can find it.

The explanation doesn't really address why they locked down the components, particularly the suicide circuit. Are they greedy? hate consumers? control freaks?

Experience with my first 640, the HDD ERR unit, suggests a huge dependency on the HDD for normal operation. It also left a cloud hanging over the replacement unit.

I would think that if they did make it an easy-to-access, fully upgradeable drive - that although it would cause users to keep the unit for a much longer time before buying another . . . it would also have the effect of everyone flocking to buy the Pioneer "upgradeable" model. The management of these companies is run by idiots - they have no foresight !!

Aside from the issue you mention, prior posts have indicated that the Pioneers have a battery-backed anti-tamper circuit which will disable the machine if you remove the HDD or even the DVD drive, even if you do it with the unit unplugged. You need a special service remote (NOT the regular remote) to enter an activation code in order to get the unit working again.Sean I think you forgot about this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8812857&&#post8812857) from KTH who successfully removed and then replaced the 640's HDD without a problem. It was when he tried to install a larger drive he had a problem.

Also, Pioneer does sell replacement HDDs (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=DVR%2D640H%2DS) (part# VXF1110) on their parts website which would seem to suggest you can install them yourself. I think it has to be pre-repared (formatted?) by Pioneer though...can't just install any 160Gb HDD. I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to put another HDD in the machine if you had knowledge of the right service mode codes and/or a service remote. Just speculating.

That's very interesting, thanks ACP! I think the posts that talked about the anti-tamper circuit referred to the 520 and 53x/633 models, I wonder if the 640 is different?

Also very interesting to see that you can get a new hard drive, although it's much more expensive than a generic one. If it's really possible to remove and re-install the HDD without killing the unit it might actually be worth pulling it out to do an image backup of it...

Also very interesting to see that you can get a new hard drive, although it's much more expensive than a generic one. If it's really possible to remove and re-install the HDD without killing the unit it might actually be worth pulling it out to do an image backup of it...I'm no expert about image backup software, but wouldn't it have to have knowledge of the file system? Obviously something like PartitionMagic that can actually alter partitions needs knowledge, but maybe not Acronis etc? If not, then great...I don't see why you couldn't just buy one or more WD 160Gb HDDs, copy the image to it and then have backup or extra/external HDDs ala Nextoo's Polaroid.

I have PartitionMagic and Acronis, so maybe one day I'll get adventurous but I just got the firmware updated on both my 640s and I don't want to mess with them right now, especially the way things are looking regarding acquiring HDD DVDRs in the future.

I'm no expert about image backup software, but wouldn't it have to have knowledge of the file system? Obviously something like PartitionMagic that can actually alter partitions needs knowledge, but maybe not Acronis etc?The physical device itself provides some number of raw sectors for storage. The partition table is a data structure that divides the raw storage up into one or more contiguous chunks that can be used by different file systems such as FAT or NTFS. And then those file systems organize files and space within a partition.

When I talk about image backup software, I'm talking about software that will back the disk up at the raw sector level without regard to the partitions or file systems that those sectors hold. It would be like Xeroxing a page with some text written on it - although you have to understand the language to read the page, the Xerox machine can make a perfectly readable copy without any ability to "understand" the text whatsoever.

It looks like Acronis, among others, may have the ability to do this.

The physical device itself provides some number of raw sectors for storage. The partition table is a data structure that divides the raw storage up into one or more contiguous chunks that can be used by different file systems such as FAT or NTFS. And then those file systems organize files and space within a partition.

When I talk about image backup software, I'm talking about software that will back the disk up at the raw sector level without regard to the partitions or file systems that those sectors hold. It would be like Xeroxing a page with some text written on it - although you have to understand the language to read the page, the Xerox machine can make a perfectly readable copy without any ability to "understand" the text whatsoever.

It looks like Acronis, among others, may have the ability to do this.Yes I know what the partitions are all about, what I meant was: do any of the imaging software packages actually backup raw sectors, or do they just backup partitions that they see. I think you may be right about Acronis, but I'm confident Partitionmagic would only backup known partitions.

Interesting note regarding this: After my first installation (and activation) of SBS on a new partition, I ended up trashing it because at the time I didn't realize it couldn't run full terminal services, (despite Microsoft's deceptive advertising of people working from home. :mad: ) I then did a new install of Server 2003 Std on the same drive after erasing the partition and repartitioning, and never had to activate the 2nd install despite a full NTFS repartitioning and formats. Activation wasn't even offered. I guess Microsoft is saving some licensing info outside the partitions.

I suppose this is where software that does a full raw sector backup is necessary, but I wonder which if any do. I hope you are right about Acronis, but I haven't even tried it yet.

EDIT: Looks like Acronis will do a sector by sector (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/faq/sector-by-sector-backup/) backup as long as it can see the partition, but I wonder if it will see it?

I'd try something like
dd bs=512 if=/dev/hde of=/dev/hdf
But that's probably just me.

I then did a new install of Server 2003 Std on the same drive after erasing the partition and repartitioning, and never had to activate the 2nd install despite a full NTFS repartitioning and formats. Activation wasn't even offered. I guess Microsoft is saving some licensing info outside the partitions.Did you erase and recreate the partitions using the text-mode setup portion of the Windows Server install? I've seen that behaviour too, and my theory is that the install reads the information from the system partition before getting to the point where it lets you repartition the disk.

Did you erase and recreate the partitions using the text-mode setup portion of the Windows Server install? I've seen that behaviour too, and my theory is that the install reads the information from the system partition before getting to the point where it lets you repartition the disk.Yes, I believe that was it so you may be right, although and it was a while ago and I don't remember if it was all done at the same time. (I may have erased the partition and then installed later.) Also, it was a different product so would they intentionally do that??

I'd try something like
dd bs=512 if=/dev/hde of=/dev/hdf
But that's probably just me.Yeah, looks like dd (if you use UNIX/Linux) does a full backup of the drive regardless of contents. I think Norton Ghost does too.

Found this site (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=PDF) today with very useful information about replacing and upgrading the HDD in Pioneer units. Very detailed and seems to imply if done correctly you can indeed put in a larger HDD (eg 500Gb).

Here's a pdf (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/filer/replacing_HDD_X4XH(X).pdf) with detailed info.

This thread at VH (http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=323822) is where I found the info and it includes more helpful stuff about copying a disk image, but that way I guess you're stuck with 160Gb.