Hi All,

After much research, I was sure I knew what I wanted and bought a Pioneer 5070 50 inch plasma. Bought it online from a forum sponsor, so almost impossible to return it.

Ok, the picture is great. Just too darn small, even in my small room.

I would have to start over with my room to try a projector, and would be about 10 or 11 feet away from screen.

Either way I'll have 720p resolution, so if I go larger with a projector, won't I just loose detail in the picture?

For example, if I end up with a 6 foot wide screen from 11 feet, will I loose enough resolution compared to my 50 inch plasma as to be unhappy?

I have to admit the color on the plasma is very nice, not sure if I would notice a lose in color going with a projector.

Probably all moot anyway, not sure I can take the hit trying to sell the Pioneer now.

Thanks for any advice.

The projector image will be dimmer, and you'll need to take a screen into consideration as that will alter the image you're looking at. The colors should be nice, but a plasma is a very bright device, like all flatpanels......

You can't "lose resolution". The resolution doesn't change. Even at 480p you are missing out on if it's the size of a tiny plasma. I run my 480p 4805 on a 9'2" diagonal silver Torus. I've seen the image as small at 40" diagonal and larger than 12'. No way would I run a small screen. As long as I can sit far enough away to not be bothered by SDE it looks great.

1080p is only 2.2+x the resolution of 720p (which is only 2.2+x 480p) and it's often displayed on MASSIVE 40-50+ foot wide DLP cinema screens. That's FOUR times bigger than a 20-25 foot wide screen. It's not four times the resolution though. Provided you can sit the right distance away to avoid SDE 720p would have NO problem running at 15-20+' wide with a good source if it had the brightness to pull off that size.

6' wide is pretty tiny for front projection. It's tiny even for a 480p display in the front projection world (most don't go below 90" diagonal). Bigger is better. You're stressing over going to a size most of us would consider too small. :) Don't worry about it. However, from 10-11' away it might be best that you don't go too big.

The brightness would be fine. I have and Optoma HD72 on a 1.8 gain grey screen and it's killer bright, and this week I moving up to a High Power 2.8 gain and I'll be even more. The only issue I'd worry about is ambient light, any windows in the room that can't be completely blocked out will hurt the picture.

I wouldn't worry about losing detail, my friend has a nice 42" 1080p set, and HDTV and HD DVD look significantly better on my 92" screen. In fact I'd say my setup so far looks better than any of the LCD or Plasmas at Best Buy, hands down, and will only get better with the new screen. The new Bravia's and Samsungs look great, but a projector gives you the same great image at twice the size.

As has already been pointed out the biggest factor you need to consider is your situation as related to ambient lighting.

If you have a totally light controlled room then a bright projector will produce a 720p image that rivals a plasma in "pop". My Mitsi. HD1000 in low lamp mode is very bright in an almost totally dark room.

However even with 1500 lumens in "bright / high" mode I can only bring the room lighting up to about half full power and retain a very good picture. That was plenty bright during the superbowl to have a great pic and enough light to talk, eat food, walk around, etc.

If I were in a situation where light were not controlled then I would have gotten either a 63" plasma or 72-73" DLP rear projector.

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

I understand I don't lose resolution, that was a poor choice of words on my part. But I understand the closer I sit to any screen, the more pixelation I see, so was concerned about how much that would be affected at the size/distance I mentioned.

I do have to chuckle to myself, this is not the first time I have been told that a 6 foot wide screen is small for projectors.

Here is where I'm coming from. This is my first attempt at HT, and really should be described more as home entertainment, as it will also be my listening area. My equipment is low to mid quality, but I am very happy with music reproduction, and was blown away with how much a 5.1 system added to the movie experience. The entire room filled with sound was amazing. This sounds weird, but the 50 inch display just seems small compared to the sound I'm getting. The sound dominates the room, but the display does not. Does that make sense?

I get confused ( some would say easily), I go into any store and talk about display, and just about all sales will tell me projection is the worst route to go, dim, less color, etc. There is one high end HT company locally, so I will try and get up there tomorrow to see what they have on display.

BTW, my room is in a basement, only one window close to the screen area, so light control shouldn't be too bad, though for day-time viewing I may still need to find out how to block more light.

Thank You

Don't be discouraged by what the sales staff at Brick and Morter TV stores tell you about projectors. They are simply wrong. They don't sell them because it's a more difficult sale and setup, and they don't want to devote the space to proper viewing room ( when they could cram 25 TV's into the same space )

Once someone goes with front projection, they very rarely go back. Keep the 'little' 50" panel for news and casual viewing.

Jonathan

This sounds weird, but the 50 inch display just seems small compared to the sound I'm getting. The sound dominates the room, but the display does not. Does that make sense?


Absolutely, because Home Theatre is more 75% sound and 25% picture. You can have a small display with big, booming room-filling sound...and once you get into the picture you'll have a great cinematic experience.

But put up a 100" screen and play its sound through the projectors speakers or through a poor-sound set of speakers and a receiver, and even with the huge picture it just doesn't do it.

Even at home, if I watch a movie with the sound turned down (I have 17 month olds in the house, we keep the volume nowhere near reference these days!), in watching at a diminished volume the "impact" isn't the same....

display, and just about all sales will tell me projection is the worst route to go, dim, less color, etc. There is one high end HT company locally, so I will try and get up there tomorrow to see what they have on display.


Because they dont sell them, or you're talking to someone making minimum wage.
Projectors can be dim, certainly you'd need the right screen/PJ combo to get the same image that aPlasma in torch-mode will put out......but in 2007 even the entry-level stuff is fantastic.

I took my 2 year old 480p widescreen into work and we hooked it up to a guys laptop via VGA in a dark conference room at lunchtime...popped in ID4....and damned if the picture wasn't spectacular being thrown up on a white wall, and thats 480p and DVD......simply put, buy the right equipment and don't look back.
But 50" isn't anything to sneeze at...sit the proper distance away, turn out the lights and that 50" will float in darkness in front of you......



BTW, my room is in a basement, only one window close to the screen area, so light control shouldn't be too bad, though for day-time viewing I may still need to find out how to block more light.

Thank You[/QUOTE]

"Once someone goes with front projection, they very rarely go back."

Hi Jonathan,

That is a very interesting comment. Does that come from your experience here on the forums, other places as well? That could be very influential in the decision making.

Thanks for the help.

Mike

Why not try just sitting closer to your plasma?

"Once someone goes with front projection, they very rarely go back."

Hi Jonathan,

That is a very interesting comment. Does that come from your experience here on the forums, other places as well? That could be very influential in the decision making.

Thanks for the help.

Mike

I have had my projector for nearly 2 years and I honestly wouldn't trade it for any plasma except for the panasonic 103". No 50", 60" or 70" picture can compete with the immersive effect you get from a 100+" image. Yes, the projector won't be as bright, and you do need some control over ambient light, but there is absolutely no comparison. FP blows everything else out of the water. I could never go back.

Yes, the projector won't be as bright, and you do need some control over ambient light, but there is absolutely no comparison. FP blows everything else out of the water. I could never go back.

Completely agree. You can get it about as bright with the right projector/screen combo, and the immersion factor is off the charts.

I own a 480P Plasma, a 480P DLP Projector, and a 1080P LCD. As far as color quality goes, the plasma is the best, then comes the projector, and the LCD is far to the rear. For watching movies though, nothing beats an enormous screen. You do generally need a dark room though or the colors will look washed out with any projector, sort of like how the LCD normally looks. Having said all that, which do I normally watch the most. The LCD of course, because it's in the family room.

Jim

Even watching upscaled SD DVD on a screen a little larger than the size you're talking about with the Optoma HD70 (which I HIGHLY recommend, by the way, and can be purchased on sale these days at BB, as well as all over the internet), and the picture was still fantastic as long as my distance from the screen was within the recommended range (12 feet or so). With HD DVD, even when I had my nose up to the screen (though this time at a significantly smaller size, due to room size), it was still sharp.

The only factors I would consider a problem at all are the way brightness issues affect black levels. Just control light and front projection is glorious, and incredibly good bang for the buck. Where else could you get a bare-bones true high definition setup complete with 5.1 surround sound at 92" for under $1500?

I am in somewhat the same boat as the thread starter. I have already bought the Panny AX-100 and have a surround system, now I am just looking for a good projector screen for under $400.

Any suggestions on what type or style screen I should be looking at? Also how do you decide to get a white or grey screen?

I have a Graywolf II screen which I bought for the 1.8 gain and gray material for color and contrast, but now I'm moving to a Da-Lite High Power 106". I got a sample of the HP and the brightness and smoothness of the image is incredible. The GW was nice but the texture of the screen was easy to spot in bright areas. Check out Tryg's thread on the HP screen for more solid info.

Hi mgh24

Well, I think a couple of posters popped in ahead of me here. The 'never go back' comes from about 4 years of reading here, as well as my own experience and those of friends and colleagues.

Since this aspect seems to be important to you, I'll give you a quick outline of my personal experience.

My GF and I built a dedicated batcave theatre in the basement about 3 years ago because we were such movie fans and live out in the sticks. We wanted BIG, so we painted a 165" 16x9 screen ( using ScreenGoo ) on drywall. Needless to say we were awed by the experience ( as well as the friends and neighbours of course ). We could never go back to watching movies on any form of TV, and we rarely go to commercial theatres now.

About a year ago, just before the Olympics, we put together a makeshift theatre in the livingroom. We did this because we didn't really want to watch the Olympics for hours on end in the theatre in the dark. It was just a quick 'temporary' setup. I bought a Greywolf from a local dealer, and moved a 480p widescreen projector I use in my office as a PC monitor down to the livingroom and plopped it behind the couch. Made a quick trip to the store to get an HD Sat receiver. Literally an hour later it was ready to go. I didn't have high hopes for it, as we have 40' of windows and no blinds at all. Well, I was amazed. The combo of a bright projector behind the couch, and a retro reflective screen, made the Olympics watchable even during the day. As you might suspect, I never got my projector back in my office. We only watch the 'teeny' tube tv for the occasional newscast. Everything else is on the projector. Aside from a 92" picture, the biggest bonus is that it totally dissapears into the room when we're not watching.

I recently upgraded the projector to an HD1000, and the picture is all the more amazing. I was hoping to get my old Mits HC3 back for office use, but my Son grabbed it and now it's in his room for PC gaming ... oh well, I guess I'll have to get one of them tiny flat panels for my office ... no one in the house will want that!

hope this helps,

Jonathan

Yes, that does help.

I was able to go to the one hi-end dealer in my valley, and look at a Mits HD1000. They were extremely helpful, and I got enough info to know what I would be able to do in my small room.

They were using component video cables, with SD DVD. It looked very good, but not spectacular. The salesperson says his experience with his home projector was that HDMI made a big big difference in PQ.

I am pretty well convinced that I want to go projector. Now a matter of how much loss I'll have to take on the Pioneer.

Jonathan: Care to comment on comparing screengoo with the manufactured screen you bought?

I was assuming, for costs sake, I would DIY a screen. Seems many posters are very happy with theirs. The salesperson said screengoo would be $200.

Now I'll have to decide which projector. Very nice price point on the HD1000, and people seem to be very happy with it. A little more gets the Epson 400, or the Sanyo Z5.

I don't think I'll need lens shift, though I may well have to have a slight keystone adjustment.

Thanks again for all the replies.

mgh24

The Goo screen and the Greywolf are at oppsite ends of the spectrum. The Goo screen is about 1.3 gain, and has a very 'filmlike' appearance ( although I use a CRT PJ in that theatre, I've brought a digital down for comparison a few times )

The Greywolf is very 'plasma like', or, more correctly 'LCD Panel like'. Much brighter and more pop. I would say it's 'digital like'. Some would say 'harsh'. With the Greywolf, the main advantage is it's retro-reflective properties which can help you combat ambient light. If you don't need that in your space, I would consider a lower gain traditional screen. The one thing the Greywolf ( and the Dalite Hipower ) also do well is not show waves in the pull-down screen fabric. Pretty much all non-tensioned pull-down screens will have some waves that you can see. If you're going with a traditional screen, then do a fixed one if you can, or spend the money for an electric tab-tensioned.

$200 ( assuming $US ) seems quite high for Goo unless you're painting a very large screen. I spent $500 CDN and painted a 165" screen. I bought 2.5 Litres of Top and 2.5 Litres of base. I used under 2 Litres of each.

In the basement I originally started with Behr Ultra Pure White ceiling paint. I only went Goo because with a screen that size, a CRT projector needs all the help it can get.

Look in the DIY Screen forum. There are lots of sub $100 screens that can be built.

On the projector front, I'm very happy with the HD1000, although the Epson 400 was a close second for me, and I'll probably end up getting one anyway for another location. I don't think it was the component connection that left you less than amazed, it was the SD content. While SD DVD's look great, there is no comparison with an HD feed. SD Broadcast will almost always been barely acceptable to unwatchable.

Jonathan

They were using component video cables, with SD DVD. It looked very good, but not spectacular. The salesperson says his experience with his home projector was that HDMI made a big big difference in PQ.


*sigh*..then your salesman is not to be trusted. There is virtually no difference in visuals between component and HDMI connections. HDMI takes some of the options for color adjustment away from you, but otherwise the pictures are nearly, if not, identical on most displays.


Now I'll have to decide which projector. Very nice price point on the HD1000, and people seem to be very happy with it. A little more gets the Epson 400, or the Sanyo Z5.


You'll have to decide how much you want to spend, and if DLP or LCD is the way for you to go. I can say, owning an HD70 DLP and an H31 before it, that there is visually no impact from engaging Keystone correction on the unit *unless* you are running it as a windows desktop, when any scaling at all will show up as bad.
But for Movies and HD, adding a few notches of keystone means the unit is scaling, but they are of sufficient quality now in these PJ's that you'll not notice the difference....unless you stare at test patterns all day.

Good luck with your decisions. DLP tends to throw a smoother picture, the Sanyo Z5 will throw a very, very sharp picture..(of course its also, almost double the cost of an HD70 or Mits H1000 even after rebates)......LCD's require filter cleaning and the occasional cleaning of the LCD panels....which may or may not be a problem for you. ETc, etC, etc.

I am in somewhat the same boat as the thread starter. I have already bought the Panny AX-100 and have a surround system, now I am just looking for a good projector screen for under $400.

Any suggestions on what type or style screen I should be looking at? Also how do you decide to get a white or grey screen?

Go to the screen section of this forum and read. Then read some more. The answers are there.