I think I'm about ready to take the power conditioner out of my system completely. I truly believe that it does more harm than good, in most cases.

However, some things still baffle me. For instance, most people who use power conditioning note improvements with video. With a conditioner, they claim to see "deeper blacks" and a brighter overall image.

I can believe the improvement in black levels, because I assume that conditioners clamp the power, so there may be less light output...but then how are people claiming to see a brighter image as well? With less power, shouldn't the picture only get dimmer?

My question may seem absurd, because it implies that conditioners always clamp and limit the power in some way, no matter what amount is being drawn, but that is exactly what I am experiencing with the one I own. Even with high current outlets employing modest capcitors, there is a loss of almost everything but midrange when my amp is paired with it. Of course, all the dynamics return once I plug it back into the wall.

If what I'm experiencing is nonsensical, then what could a power conditioner possibly be doing to affect the sound, other than limiting current?

At the moment, I still have my preamp plugged into the conditioner since I am out of outlets, and I am worried that my sound is still plagued in some way.

If there's lots of EMI on the power line, and a power conditioner filter that out, and the display has a crappy power supply, then removing the noise through a power conditioner may reduce noise in the output, and thus lead to a crisper image with better blacks.

I can believe the improvement in black levels, because I assume that conditioners clamp the power, so there may be less light output

Sounds like marketing speak....doesn't really make any sense.

Video signals are clamped, so that sync tips are at ground...but this has nothing to do with a "power conditioner"....maybe you're mixing up your terms.

Unless you have really poor video circuitry in your system, variations in the power line or transients are going to cause shifts in black level. The video signal circuits are all operating on low level dc voltages and these are all regulated with regulators that are for all practical purposes immune to the normal variations on your power line.

You haven't really described the actual problem you are having with your sound or what kind of conditioner that you have. Some conditioners are only designed to remove transients from the line. Others actually have some voltage regulation capability. If you have the latter, it is important to make sure that your conditioner is properly sized for the load that it is handling. I cannot imagine it causing a problem with only a preamp plugged in. Preamps draw very little power.

This section of the AVS forum is very good for getting a reality check. One needs to be cautious when venturing into other sections of the forum where money is no object and reality can give way to the latest Snake Oil Hype. It is a little like politics. Tell a lie loud and often enough and soon the masses start believing it. It also helps to give that phenomena a great name.

..Doyle

They clamp voltage spikes and filter out very high frequencies which is far different from somehow choking back your incoming AC.

Here's what I am using:

http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery/132868/2/39983285#39983285

Last night, I unplugged the preamp from the PF60 (sans +4/-10dB converter) and plugged it directly into a wall outlet (shared with a 250 watt Crown amp). I relocated the PF60 and the video components to another outlet (which I believe share the same circuits).

Maybe I'm imagining things...the sound is noticeably harsher, but the dynamics that I was accustomed to were back, and the sound just seemed more natural and open.

When a conditioner changes the sound, it seems that it always has to do with current that is being limited. In my case, it seems that the sound is always being affected, independent of how much current is being drawn, with the conditioner. Is it absurd to believe that there is a filter in there that was specifically integrated to smooth and mellow out the sound to trick the user into believing that the conditioner is making a positive difference?

I think you need to look at this logically. From your description, you have done nothing to change the signal path. The Power Amp that is the largest current draw has always been plugged directly into the wall outlet. That said, the only change is taking the preamp off of the conditioner and plugging it into the wall with the power amp. The preamp does not draw any significant power. It is a voltage amplification device so the load for high volumes is essentially the same as for low volumes. If you put an ammeter in series with your preamp and varied the volume control you would most likely see no difference in the current draw over a few miliamps. Filtering in the PF60 is not in the signal path so it is not going to have any first order effect on the sound. Could it be causing fluctuations in the preamps power supply voltages. Very Very unlikely! For a preamp to be low noise, they use a lot of voltage regulation.
At this point, you have a few choices. You can continue to run listening tests. You can eliminate the conditioner from your system or you can use the conditioner. Personally I don't think it matters unless you do have lots of transients or line fluctuations in your home. If you do then I would use the conditioner. It looks like a good box. Nothing in its design description seems out of line.

..Doyle

Here is a very telling quote from one of the power conditioner makers. This is from the guy who runs the company.This in my mind is why the FTC should look into these tools just like they did the diet pills.He fails to see that it was one small control group, fails to see the ethics involved, fails to see potential harm to people who think they have a diet pill inthe physical, mental and money sense.Dont you think he fails to see the same thing in the products he sells?He also is very good at double talk also. He talks of a audio test, then in the next paragraph talks of a double blind. He didnt double blind the first test he used. See how slippery these guys are?He also wants you to suspend real world physics by making a device that you cant measure. Its audio and electronic we can measure it.

His last 2 phrases at the end are very telling of someone who wants to sell you something on the hype alone.Sick.

Quote"I receive some new piece of equipment and I connect it and my system sounds better! I put it in/out and I always like the system better with it. My friends and colleagues try the same thing on their system with the same results.

Problem: it's not doing anything I can measure (and for that matter no one else can either) but I continue to hear the improvement. Does it make my findings any less valid because the measurement people say it's bunk and poke fun at me for being a gullible fool? If it works for me, then it works for me. I can really ask no more.

But apparently that's wrong. One group believes if you can't measure it or if you can't identify the change in a double blind, then it's not valid: despite the fact it is valid for you and your associates.

So let me ask a question to the group. If I take sawdust, put it in a capsule and sell it as a diet pill and half the people taking it lose weight and the other half don't, is it a valid weight loss pill? Let's change the odds, let's say that 70% of the people taking it lose weight. Valid, or not valid?

Now we understand they are losing weight because they believe they will. The doctors inject control groups with sawdust and have zero results. They say it's bunk, yet 70% of the people buying it lose weight.

So, one answer might be that the doctors are looking in the wrong place. Apparently, the mind is powerful enough to trigger certain chemicals in the body to force it to lose weight and this placebo kick starts it and therefore it's a miracle drug. The sawdust itself is doing nothing.

The measurement crowd cries foul and wants to do a double blind test to prove us wrong: they fail because they didn't have all the facts. They are looking in the wrong place or - they don't have the technology to look in the right place - or they don't know where to look. Very common.

If application of a technique causes the majority of users to agree on a common outcome then I would suggest it is valid. Simply because it may not be measurable only means it may not be measurable.

Results is results. "
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