hey guys. I just got a Samsung Slimfit HDTV. I have a ps2 hooked up via the component cables (mad catz, they are the combo xbox/ps2 ones) I am experiencing some lag on the ps2, havent tried the xbox as it is not at my house at the moment.

Is this a fault of the cables or tv? The picture looks great and everything but the dang lag is driving me crazy! I am thinking about buying the offical Sony cables but before I do that, has anyone else experienced this problem with their tv and games? I have the model - Samsung TXS3082WH 30" Wide Slimfit HDTV.

Thanks!

Different cables won't change anything. The only way you can completely fix this is to buy a rather expensive converter that upscales the PS2's output before it reaches your TV. I play a lot of IIDX and pop'n, and as a result can't accept any lag whatsoever, which is why I kept my old SDTV around.

According to the spec sheet of your tv, the TXS3082WH should have 480i as a native resolution. If it's a "native" 480i, then there should be no processing to cause that lag. Maybe you're playing a 4:3 game in a forced 16:9 mode. I dunno. Is the game 480i or 480p? And what are your PS2 settings? Progressive scan?

I actually have that same model of TV and am using it primarily for PS2 (until I get my Xbox 360). I haven't noticed any lag whatsoever, and one of the games I played on it (Shadow Hearts) required some precision timing. What I have noticed is some ghosting in dark backgrounds, which I attribute to slower decaying phosphors than my previous TV.

I did experience some occasional framerate drops with the LG superslim, which I had to return due to some problems, but like I said, I haven't seen them on the Samsung. With the LG I only saw it with composite cables, and you said you were using component. Sorry I couldn't be of any help, except to tell you that I have the same TV and don't have that problem.

P.S: have you noticed any weird effects in non-progressive-scan games? I had to switch back to composite unless I'm playing progressive scan because of some weird thing with the picture turning into improperly-shaded vertical lines rather than a smooth image.

Hey all. I have this same TV (TXS3082WH), which I just snatched up open-box at circuit city over the weekend. I didn't have time to do research before I got it (I was at CC getting other stuff), but they said I could return it within 30 days. I started researching about TVs and stuff once I got it home, and I read about the geometry issues some others were having, and then I read about the whole upscaling to HD thing.


I'm going to be using this almost entirely to game on, and the games I play (IIDX/Street Fighter) require exact timing. I tried the TV out with IIDX and could tell immedately it was no good in terms of timing. The geometry issues I really don't care about as long as they aren't terrible, and ater inspecting the picture, I could see some slight bowing on the left, but I could have lived with it if it weren't for the lag.

Anyway, I'm pretty decided that I'm going to return the TV, but my problem is I have very limited space to work with for a TV (the depth of the shelf it's going to sit on is about 15 inches) which is why I really wanted to like this TV. So looking at alternatives, I saw the TX-S2783. Will this fix my problems? If there's slight geometry issues, I don't mind, the important thing for me is the delay. This TV is SD right? Does that imply that the native resolution is 480i? I tried looking through the manual and stuff online to see what the native resolution is, but I can't find it anywhere. Can someone confirm this for me somehow?

Edit: Also, I forgot, fivestarav, where did you see that the TXS3082WH has 480i as a native resolution? Can you link to a source?

Looking at the spec sheet, the TX-S2783 seems like a 480i machine, so there should be no lag time with all your 480i games. Samsung is a bit sneaky with their spec sheets. It says it'll process all types of signals (480p, 720p, 1080i, etc.), but it will always display them in 480i.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/SlimFitHDTV/files/tx-s2783.pdf

And here is the spec sheet for the TXS3082WH (page 2):

http://samsung.com/Products/TV/SlimFitHDTV/files/txs3082.pdf

I am debating weather or not a tv can have so many native resolutions in another forum thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=812604

As for the "bowing problems," that seems to be a limiiation of the "Slim-Fit" design. 2 new models by Samsung will arrive in March/April 2007 with the new "Bluejay" chip, that may fix all that. More info here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=812592

I, myself, am anxiously waiting for reviews of these upcoming Samsung TVs. I have my eye on the new TX-T2793H. Too many games I have run at 480i in a 4:3 display ratio, so I'm avoiding widescreen. I'm also concerned about lag times. Guess I'll wait for the reviews. Hope all this helps.

This definately isn't a problem with your TV. Even the cheapest CRT on the market has a response time less than 1 ms. Either it is a problem with your PS2, your setup, or you are hallucinating.

BTW, the Sammy SlimFit doesn't display 480i, it simply supports that resolution. It only displays 480p and 1080i.

Another thing: Did you set your PS2 to output in widescreen ( Or 480p. )? I don't own the PS2 so I don't know everything about its performance but I do know that 480p is twice the bandwidth of 480i. Processing twice the graphics bandwidth requires more CPU power and could be taxing your PS2 and causing slowdown. It really would all depend on how well the game developers optimized the game for 480p if support for it is included. If you have your PS2 setup that way try setting it to the regular SD output and see if that makes a difference. If it does make a difference the fault is with the console, not the TV.

well I have the TXS3082W. and I called support and they said to try switching comonent inputs, did that no difference. Then I said what the heck, lets try the composit cables and see if there is any difference. I did notice that the lag was smaller then before.

I have the PS2 in 16:9 mode and the input is component as well. I have noticed though the lag isnt as bad as it was before but playing games like Hot Shots Golf really show the lag problem...

Another problem I have now is the right hand side of the screen is Bent in about half way down and the bottom of the screen is curved up about about 2 inches on each side. Noticable when playing ESPN NFL2K when on offense picking plays the right and left play names are somewhat hidden. Not a big deal but wasnt there a week ago...:(

dont notice this at all on Sat channels and HDTV OTA, also no GEO problems either, but I will test with CNN when I get home for bottem of the screen to see if the lower right and left sides are down

This definately isn't a problem with your TV. Even the cheapest CRT on the market has a response time less than 1 ms. Either it is a problem with your PS2, your setup, or you are hallucinating.

BTW, the Sammy SlimFit doesn't display 480i, it simply supports that resolution. It only displays 480p and 1080i.

Wickerman, I don't think that's correct. If he has an HDTV, then his PS2's 480i signal is being upscaled to display at a higher resolution, and that processing time would cause a brief lag.

And are you saying the Samsung SDTV Slim-Fits don't display 480i? That's the whole definition of SDTV. You must be talking about the HDTV Slim-Fits only, yes?

Wickerman, I don't think that's correct. If he has an HDTV, then his PS2's 480i signal is being upscaled to display at a higher resolution, and that processing time would cause a brief lag.

And are you telling me the Samsung SDTV Slim-Fits don't display 480i?!!! That's the whole definition of SDTV, man.

Yeah I think this is why I have lag and people with PS3's and Xbox360s dont. But What can I do besides by a stupid up converter for a couple hundo? I guess i'll have to Just live with it for now

Yeah I think this is why I have lag and people with PS3's and Xbox360s dont. But What can I do besides by a stupid up converter for a couple hundo? I guess i'll have to Just live with it for now


You can consider this for under $50.

http://www.xploder.net/press-releases/26/HDTV-Game-Upgrade-for-PS2.htm

To be honest, despite its claims, it's only good for converting PS2 480i games to 480p in the long run. However, this will be very helpful to you because your tv will have a much easier time upscaling a 480p signal to HDTV standards than a 480i signal, thus less lag.

Review:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/742/742965p1.html

Wickerman, I don't think that's correct. If he has an HDTV, then his PS2's 480i signal is being upscaled to display at a higher resolution, and that processing time would cause a brief lag.

And are you saying the Samsung SDTV Slim-Fits don't display 480i? That's the whole definition of SDTV. You must be talking about the HDTV Slim-Fits only, yes?

It's not processing in the same way a LCD or Plasma does. With a CRT the image is just blasted out because they are analog in nature.

Yes, I'm talking about the HDTVs.

Also, the guy just said he has his PS2 set to widescreen. If the PS2 is set to 480p than the TV isn't upconverting anyway. 480p is twice the bandwidth of 480i and the PS2 might be slowing down trying to process at 480p. Try setting it to output in normal and see if that makes a difference. If it does than the PS2 is the culprit.

Looking at the spec sheet, the TX-S2783 seems like a 480i machine, so there should be no lag time with all your 480i games. Samsung is a bit sneaky with their spec sheets. It says it'll process all types of signals (480p, 720p, 1080i, etc.), but it will always display them in 480i.

And here is the spec sheet for the TXS3082WH (page 2):

I am debating weather or not a tv can have so many native resolutions in another forum thread:

As for the "bowing problems," that seems to be a limiiation of the "Slim-Fit" design. 2 new models by Samsung will arrive in March/April 2007 with the new "Bluejay" chip, that may fix all that. More info here:

I, myself, am anxiously waiting for reviews of these upcoming Samsung TVs. I have my eye on the new TX-T2793H. Too many games I have run at 480i in a 4:3 display ratio, so I'm avoiding widescreen. I'm also concerned about lag times. Guess I'll wait for the reviews. Hope all this helps.

Thanks for all the info. After looking at the spec sheets, I now see where the links to them are on their website.

So I tried playing on my TV again today and it's completely unbearable. The lag just ruins it for me because the games become unplayable. So I'm decided now on returning the TV, and I thought I was pretty decided about getting the TX-S2783. But when I was looking at Samsung's website, I noticed the TX-T2782. It looks like just a newer model of the TX-S2783. I knew about this new line coming out, but I thought it was just two TVs, a widescreen HD, and a 4:3 HD -- I didn't know there was an SD one also. Also, on it's spec sheet, it specifically says it's native resolution is 480i.

Obviously I'd prefer this TV because it's a newer model, and has better inputs, but when are they due out? Also, about how much will they probably retail for, because TX-S2783's are pretty cheap.

EDIT: Never mind, I should have known to google the model number, I can't give the link cause of forum restrictions, but it says $549 in April. Guess I'll wait. :D

It's not processing in the same way a LCD or Plasma does. With a CRT the image is just blasted out because they are analog in nature.

So you're saying that HDTV CRTs never spend time processing or upscaling a signal? Ever? And there will never be a processing lag on a CRT? (I need to know.)

You're also saying that HDTV CRTs are capable of showing all signals in its "native" state? (Up to the limitations of the tv, of course.) So on a Samsung spec sheet, when it says:

"Native resolution display format :1080i/720p/480p/480i Interlaced
Maximum of 800 lines horizontal resolution"

- that means it pretty much can display anything you throw at it without the need to process a signal, right?

I'm confused because someone in another thread insisted that no HDTV CRTs can natively display 480i.

I don't know if you are referring to the SD version you're speaking of or not when you say the native resolution is 480i. On the TX-S3082WH the ONLY resolutions that are actually displayed are 480p and 1080i. If you have set your PS2 to run in 480p than the TV isn't scaling anything becuse it displays 480p. You'd have to do the opposite for it to scale, meaning you'd have to set your PS2 to output in standard 480i. You either refuse to try setting your PS2 to output in 480i just to see what happens or you are simply refusing to tell me you tryed that already. Your PS2 could be the culprit here. Because it doesn't have a specific chip dedicated to scaling like the 360 does the burden is put onto the standard CPU or GPU to run it that way and this could be where your lag is coming from. Think of PC graphics cards. The higher you set the resolution for a game the harder your PC has to work to run it and performance goes down. The same thing could be happening here.

If it's true this TV only displays a 480i signal as 480p, it means it's waiting 1/60 of a second for the second field in a frame to arrive, so that it can display both at the same time. There is also probably some deinterlacing processing going on at that point so that moving stuff does not look serrated.

If it's true this TV only displays a 480i signal as 480p, it means it's waiting 1/60 of a second for the second field in a frame to arrive, so that it can display both at the same time. There is also probably some deinterlacing processing going on at that point so that moving stuff does not look serrated.

But he's saying that he has his PS2 set to 480p already so this wouldn't be happening. He'd have to do the opposite.

He said the PS2 is connected via component and in 16:9 mode, not that it is set to 480p.

Hot Shots Golf is not in the Wikipedia list of games supporting 480p.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Progressive_Scan_PS2_Games

Ok after reading all the thought I will change to format to 4:3 instead of widescreen and see if that helps with the leg. I am not sure there is an option to "turn" on 480P on the system itself, where as in game, such as ESPN NFL 2k5 or the Ratch and Clank series has an option to select progressive scan.

So I am not sure that that really is an issue, but I will try switching the display type back to 4:3 and see if that helps, I'll report back tonight and let you guys know what happens

Do you have lag on those games where you set to 480p?

He said the PS2 is connected via component and in 16:9 mode, not that it is set to 480p.

Well, 16:9 mode should mean the same thing as 480p or that is a very, very generic widescreen mode. I mean who in the hell has heard of 480i in widescreen?

Hot Shots Golf is not in the Wikipedia list of games supporting 480p.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Progressive_Scan_PS2_Games

Yes I know and it is not running in 480p, usually yeah either have an option to enable in the game options menue or with older games you have to hold triangle and "x" at the load screen.

As far as I know the PS2 doesnt automatically run everything in 480p when using component cables. I havent tried HSG 4 with 4:3 settings picked in the PS2's display setup so I will try that tonight.

The reason I brought up HSG 4 is because it is the only game that I have that lets me test the lag, as it uses a 3 "click" swing, and since i get this tv I cannot play this game because the lag makes it almost impossible to get perfect impact or the right % of distance because of said lag... :mad:

Do you have lag on those games where you set to 480p?


I cant tell in the ratch and clank games as timing isnt too important.

But when I play ESPN, when using the kicking meter it is there. Whether I use progessive scan or not. I think tonight i'll change it up and try to play it with the PS2 display at 4:3 (even though this is a 16:9) and see if that helps, also I may just plug in my composit cables as well and test it out that way too.

Hmmm, out of curiosity I tryed to get a widescreen picture out of my 360 ( I don't have a PS2. ) in 480i. To my surprise I was able to. The weird thing is that the display on my TV said it was receiving a 4:3 480i signal despite my entire screen being filled ( And it wasn't stretched or zoomed. ). If it really isn't your PS2 and your CRT is truly lagging that is a new one on me. I've never even heard of a CRT lagging before. I get no lag whatsoever on my Sony XBR970 as far as I can tell. I've played Xbox and Xbox 360 on it. My TV has 3 display outputs though as opposed to only 2 on the Samsung. Mine displays in 960i ( Which is 480i with line doubling. ), 480p, and 1080i. So 480i signals don't have to be converted to 480p on this set unless I set it up that way in the user menu.

Because you're not playing games that rely on super precise timing.

As I stated before, I play a lot of rhythm action games, and lag on my Sony 36XS955 CRT HDTV is intolerable when playing IIDX, although I don't even notice it in any other 480i games.

Also, no, there is no way to "set" your PS2 to 480p through its browser. And usng component cables has absolutely no bearing on this. If a particular game supports progressive scan, you'll be able to turn it on through that game.

I bought the HDTV Player disc mentioned earlier in this thread, and it's complete garbage. This "forces" your PS2 into higher resolutions (480p/720p/1080i), but causes serious issues with nearly every game I tried it with. Games where it appeared to work, like FFXII, were pillar-boxed and vertically squished on my 4:3 TV for some reason. No amount of tweaking the settings on my PS2 could alleviate this. The only way to fix it through the actual TV would be to enter the service menu and change the Horizontal scan size every time I wanted to play a PS2 game. Yeah, needless to say, not going to do this. Complete waste of $50.

Because you're not playing games that rely on super precise timing.

As I stated before, I play a lot of rhythm action games, and lag on my Sony 36XS955 CRT HDTV is intolerable when playing IIDX, although I don't even notice it in any other 480i games.

Also, no, there is no way to "set" your PS2 to 480p through its browser. And usng component cables has absolutely no bearing on this. If a particular game supports progressive scan, you'll be able to turn it on through that game.

I bought the HDTV Player disc mentioned earlier in this thread, and it's complete garbage. This "forces" your PS2 into higher resolutions (480p/720p/1080i), but causes serious issues with nearly every game I tried it with. Games where it appeared to work, like FFXII, were pillar-boxed and vertically squished on my 4:3 TV for some reason. No amount of tweaking the settings on my PS2 could alleviate this. The only way to fix it through the actual TV would be to enter the service menu and change the Horizontal scan size every time I wanted to play a PS2 game. Yeah, needless to say, not going to do this. Complete waste of $50.


I play all kinds of games; sports games, action games, FPSs, RPGs, just about everything. I have NEVER seen ANY lag on ANY CRT, and I've been gaming for over 20 years. I still think you guys are incorrectly blaming framerate hiccups that are on the console's end on your TV. I'd have to see it to believe it.

Wickerman1972, just curious, have you hooked up and old 480i gaming console to your Sony HDTV? Sounds like you only have an Xbox and an Xbox 360 hooked up. The majority of games for the Xbox family are 480p and up. (Hell, I have a regular Xbox game designed for 720p that I can't take advantage of). I ask because it sounds like the fella who started this thread is getting headaches from his PS2 480i games (which should only be played in 4:3 to play it safe, no?) Like I said, just curious. I'm currently shopping for an HDTV that can handle old gaming consoles and new without any hiccups, so this conversation IS important to me. ;-)

I play all kinds of games; sports games, action games, FPSs, RPGs, just about everything. I have NEVER seen ANY lag on ANY CRT, and I've been gaming for over 20 years. I still think you guys are incorrectly blaming framerate hiccups that are on the console's end on your TV. I'd have to see it to believe it.

Ok, so when I first set up my TV (the 3082WH), I tested IIDX by playing a song I can AA. I try it, and got a C or a D. Usually on that song, I get an EX score of about 1700 (EX score is based on timing the notes, not just hitting the notes). My EX score was around 300. Is this enough proof for you? You want pictures?

The way you talk, you seem to really want people to know you're a "hardcore" gamer. This has nothing to do with that. You wouldn't understand our problems with this unless you played games that require strict timing (read: rhythm games), so calm down.

If anyone's looking for an HDTV that doesn't have lag, I never found one, but I DID find that Panasonic LCDs' lag was somewhere in the vacinity of ~8-10ms -- the same amount of time that the LCDs' response rate took (8ms response rate).

To test TVs, I made a small flash app that counts in milliseconds at 60fps (I also set my laptop monitor's refresh rate to 60hz). Then I put it on my laptop and connected it to TVs using the S-Video port (to make sure that it was a 480i image on the TV -- I play old games, so 480i compatibility is very important to me). Then I'd hold my laptop up level with the TV so that you could see the flash app counting in milliseconds both on the laptop's screen AND the TV's screen, and then I'd take a picture with a digital camera. If the milliseconds matched up exactly, then I'd take a short movie with the digital camera and go back and pause it at different intervals to make sure that the milliseconds matched up exactly each time.

I had to have tested two dozen TVs, but the only TV that didn't seem to have any lag was the Panasonic TC-32LX60 32" LCD TV. The milliseconds on the TV were sometimes reading at two different numbers at once, but the numbers were only two milliseconds apart, and I figure that if the TV has lag, it's probably no longer than the TV's pixel refresh rate -- 8ms.

If anyone wants to test them, they're 720p native. However, if you happen to come across a Panasonic PT-56LCX66 (rear-projection LCD TV), while I didn't specifically test it using my timer setup, I did test it just with a 480i signal and it's the only other TV I've seemingly never noticed lag on.

You might also try the TC-32LX600, as it's the newer version of the TC-32LX60.


Oh, and if anyone finds a better solution, please post it here. ^_^

That's good advice, masamunecyrus, but most of us on this thread are questioning HDTV CRT displays. We know LCDs can be trouble with last-gen gaming. Have you done any experiments with the HDTV CRTs? If so, please share.

I've tried all of Samsung's widescreen CRTs that are supposedly 480i/480p/1080i, and all of them had definite lag, both with 480i games and 480p games. I'll have to try out some more, sometime.

Maybe this May when I get my own laptop and my new digital camera, I can go try out all of the top TVs to see what their upscale-time is. May's quite a bit of time from now, but the HDTV lag problem will definitely still be here by then. :-P