Wow I do see a lot of open area....

I cannot believe you were getting 110db with THAT LARGE of a space...

I wish someone in Cleveland would bring over a PC or PB Ultra for a demo and a side by side comparison between my 16-46+ and the ultra...

Any takers? :)

Furniture comes tomorrow so pictures of the theater will be updated tomorrow afternoon! I am excited and excited for you all to see it!

Wow I do see a lot of open area....

I cannot believe you were getting 110db with THAT LARGE of a space...

I wish someone in Cleveland would bring over a PC or PB Ultra for a demo and a side by side comparison between my 16-46+ and the ultra...

Any takers? :)

Furniture comes tomorrow so pictures of the theater will be updated tomorrow afternoon! I am excited and excited for you all to see it!

I don't know why it's so hard to believe. The numbers from your -6db test:

1. 104db from Listening Position (Digital SPL Meter--Max)
2. 113db from 1 meter (Digital SPL Meter--Max)
3. 2300cuft (not sealed due to open doorway)
4. A single SVS 16-46Plus
5. Master Volume -6db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

Are pretty impressive for a 16-46 in your space. I would think an Ultra would be quite a bit more powerful in the same space (especially in the HZ range this test is covering).

And just think, if he had 16 SVS 16-46's he would almost match my results. :p

MY NEW numbers in the new theater are:

Very CLEAN reproduction
1. 108db from Listening Position (Digital SPL Meter--Max)
2. 1800cuft (not sealed due to open doorway, but covered with heavy velvet curtain)
3. A single SVS 16-46Plus
4. Master Volume -8db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

Pretty Clean Reproduction
1. 110db from Listening Position (Digital SPL Meter--Max)
2. 1800cuft (not sealed due to open doorway but covered with heavy velvet curtain)
3. A single SVS 16-46Plus
4. Master Volume -6db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

Clean still...but I know I'm reaching my limits here so I go no further
1. 112db from Listening Position (Digital SPL Meter--Max)
2. 1800cuft (not sealed due to open doorway but covered with heavy velvet curtain)
3. A single SVS 16-46Plus
4. Master Volume -4db Sub calibrated to 72db on SPL meter (uncorrected)

No point in going past -4db MV because I would watch this movie somewhere between -6db and -4db...anything louder is just too loud!

What impressed me about your numbers Roger where how big a space you have to fill (probably over 4000cu ft and your LP distance is 15ft.

I am doing a pretty well sealed 1800cu ft room and my LP is only 3-4 feet from the sub.

PB13-Ultra

Digital SPL meter MAX C weighted fast

1. 109 dB from listening position (9 ft away)
2. 117 dB 1m
3. MV at -7 db

I usually listen at -20 to -18 dB. -12 is "reference level". So this scene is NASTY hot. :p

PB13-Ultra

Digital SPL meter MAX C weighted fast

1. 109 dB from listening position (9 ft away)
2. 117 dB 1m
3. MV at -7 db

I usually listen at -20 to -18 dB. -12 is "reference level". So this scene is NASTY hot. :p


So you listened to this scene at 5db above reference!

How many cubic feet would you say your listening space is?? It looks like a living room so I'm going to guess that is not a sealed room by any means. But a rough estimate for Cubic feet would be ???

It's roughly 4000 cu ft. It's not any where near sealed. My living area/kitchen are open and I have an 11 ft vaulted ceiling.

So you listened to this scene at 5db above reference!



Let me clarify that. It is my "reference level" which is the vloume setting that I achieve 75 dB using Avia II test tones. It's not Dolby reference level (85 dB).

So basically two people have tested a PB-13 in rooms roughly 4000 cu ft and achieved 109 and 110db respectively.

I was able to reach 110-112db in my 1800 cu ft room using a 16-46+ at my normal listening volume of -6db to-4db. I'm guessing a PB-13 from the same LP in my HT room would be in the neighborhood of 116-118db on this scene do to the increased headroom of the Ultra itself and the decreased room volume 4000 vs 1800cu ft.

Dual Co-Located 16-46+ would yield me around 116-118db due to the +6 boost from DUAL/Co-Located subs...

So Dual 16-46+ vs Single PB-13...for this scene seems a wash. But I'm sure the sound quality of the Ultra might be a little different for this scene, which is impossible to express here.

(see my thought process going on here :D )

So basically two people have tested a PB-13 in rooms roughly 4000 cu ft and achieved 109 and 110db respectively.

I was able to reach 110-112db in my 1800 cu ft room using a 16-46+ at my normal listening volume of -6db to-4db. I'm guessing a PB-13 from the same LP in my HT room would be in the neighborhood of 116-118db on this scene do to the increased headroom of the Ultra itself and the decreased room volume 4000 vs 1800cu ft.

Dual Co-Located 16-46+ would yield me around 116-118db due to the +6 boost from DUAL/Co-Located subs...

So Dual 16-46+ vs Single PB-13...for this scene seems a wash. But I'm sure the sound quality of the Ultra might be a little different for this scene, which is impossible to express here.

(see my thought process going on here :D )

I haven't heard a 16-46, but I did have a 20-39 PCi+ for about 75 days and I can tell you the Ultra sounds way cleaner on pretty much all material. Maybe because it coasts most of the time, but probably the new driver.

I haven't heard a 16-46, but I did have a 20-39 PCi+ for about 75 days and I can tell you the Ultra sounds way cleaner on pretty much all material. Maybe because it coasts most of the time, but probably the new driver.

Roger Clark, Holy Cow!
I was reading your comments and noted that you had the PC Ultra 13 tuned to 20Hz and gain at 11 o'clock, and I thought cool, he has the same sub and settings as me. Then I saw you had the Denon 3808 and I thought, wow, he has the same receiver as me. But now you said that you had the 20-39 PCi plus before the the ultra 13 and I thought, did I write all the comments for you because it was exactly what I did, I got the plus first, had it for awhile and finally decided to upgrade to the Ultra 13 and I must agree that it sounds so much more detailed and clean. And if you're asian you maybe my long lost brother!

On a side note, what mains are you running and did you do any firmware updates for you Denon 3808? If so, how did it go and did you notice any sound quality improvements?

So basically two people have tested a PB-13 in rooms roughly 4000 cu ft and achieved 109 and 110db respectively.

I was able to reach 110-112db in my 1800 cu ft room using a 16-46+ at my normal listening volume of -6db to-4db. I'm guessing a PB-13 from the same LP in my HT room would be in the neighborhood of 116-118db on this scene do to the increased headroom of the Ultra itself and the decreased room volume 4000 vs 1800cu ft.

Dual Co-Located 16-46+ would yield me around 116-118db due to the +6 boost from DUAL/Co-Located subs...

So Dual 16-46+ vs Single PB-13...for this scene seems a wash. But I'm sure the sound quality of the Ultra might be a little different for this scene, which is impossible to express here.

(see my thought process going on here :D )

I have no doubt that 2 16-46PC+ would be more powerful than one ultra. I had a 16-46cs co located with a 16-46cs+ and they were slightly more powerful than my plus/2 with its tune at 25 HZ. When I tuned the plus/2 to 16 hz then it was not close. Now another 16-46cs+ plus instead of the cs sub would have given me even more of an advantage. The 16-46pc+ sub will also extend deeper than the ultra. They maybe closer in spl but when you tune the ultra to 15 hz it will lose some spl and then 16-46pc+(dual's) would be more powerful with the same extension. The question is the sound quality and the ultra rules this domain. Don't let these numbers mislead you with spl, I moved my subs from 5000 cubic feet to 2300 cubic feet and lost 1 db in spl. The size of the room is not the only factor. The question is would I get 2 16-46+ subs over one ultra. I guess it depends. I would probably would get the pc-13 as I love cylinder subs. I would buy one if they were passive. SVS, make a passive ultra cylinder, please. I have too many amps not to use them.
Brad,
Since you are buying the powered plus cylinder, 2 of them would be more expensive than 1 pc-13 ultra. I'd say go for the ultra. Then once and for all, you can tell us the difference. Remember, it would be more of a fair comparison with dual's vs 1 ultra. The one ultra will stomp over one 16-46pc+.

BUMP....can we get some new readings from members who own:

SVS Ultra 13's?
Conquest
Castle
Tower
MFW15

ect...

Bump...

It would be great to see some Epik numbers.

Well MK I have a 16-46+ now.

So in order to get the Ultra I'd have to sell this one.

If you look in my link for my new HT you see where the PC+ is. That is the best spot in the room. The Ultra would go there too and actually I think the Box typed sub would be better. 1 it could function as sort of an end table, and 2 with my new couch down there the PB-13 would actually be almost hidden from sight. Obviously Dual Co-Located 16-46+ would be much more obvious in that corner, and wouldn't allow any sort of "end table" in that area.

If I can sell my 16-46+ close to what I paid for it I'd do it and get the Ultra. One because of the extra 4-5db that it will give me over the 16-46+ from 20hz up...and Two because of Sound Quality/Accuracy increase. If I can't sell it, then Duals it is probably sometime in the next 1-2 months.

MK I'm actually changing my views a little here over the last year. I really am starting to think that 15hz is as low as one really needs to go in order to get an AMAZING movie performance. From all of these waterfalls only WOTW and BlackHawk have scenes that feature major sub 15hz bass....and really those scenes are right around 10hz!!! The major Impact, shake your room and butt bass is from 20-40hz...

Interesting fact.

Just got the new furniture....So check out the updated link!

Same SPL on this scene but MAN the couch shakes twice as much as that crappy futon did! That feeling when she taps the glass....it feels like she is shaking the whole couch! That made me smile :D

I know what you mean. I am going to build the sonosubs and everyone is telling me to go as low as possible because of over excursion issues with a higher tuning. I never had problems with my 16-46+ and cs subs at 16 hz. So why would I have a problem at 16 hz with 4 18 inch sonosubs. I am a bit confused. I would get reference level bass in 16hz or 12.9 hz but lose 3-4 db's going from 16 to 12.9 but gain 3hz extension, from 14-11. Now is 11-80 hz at 123-124 db's(without room gain) better than 14-80hz at 127-128 db's?

Wow Brad, you sit so close to the speakers and screen, what size screen is that? Theater looking good. BTW I don't think you will get what you want for your sub but it does not cost much to try. My front row is 14 feet from my 140 inch screen so I bet my dimensions are similar to yours.

Ya that is 100inch screen. Viewing distance is right at 11ft. (I think the pictures make it look more like 8 feet)

Looks PERFECT in HD....even the SD-DVDs that I'm upscaling with a simple Sony 75H look really good!

Honestly I probably could have done 110inches from this distance, but my screen wall wasn't big enough...LOL. 100inch diagonal was as big as I could go and still allow myself room on the sides of the screen for my mains. (there is about 15inches on each side of the screen to the wall.)

____________________________________________________________ ______

I would get reference level bass in 16hz or 12.9 hz but lose 3-4 db's going from 16 to 12.9 but gain 3hz extension, from 14-11. Now is 11-80 hz at 123-124 db's(without room gain) better than 14-80hz at 127-128 db's?

Honestly....I'd tune them to 16 and take the 14-80hz at 127-128db. That extra power in the area where it really counts (20-40hz) I think would make it more enjoyable.

I just don't think we need to dig down any deeper than 15hz....if we do...only a movie here or there will use that, and it probably isn't that meaningful. Looking at the waterfalls of nearly 100+ movies shows that only 2-3 out of 100 actually have something from 5-15hz that is MEANINGFUL...WOTW Lightning and BlawkHawk Irene. The rest of the movies are centered from about 18hz-40hz for their MEANINGFUL bass scenes...

I was thinking the same thing. I don't think over excursion will be a problem with 4 of these. The 16-46cs+ subs modeled in winisd and showed that they would have over excursion at 14.xx HZ but I never ran into that problem. I am expecting the same from the 4 18's. My only problem is that the people say when you have subs that can do 10-11 hz with authority makes a big difference. Then there are people that say the sub 15 HZ material is just noise that never got filtered out.

I had the same problem you did with my screen. I wanted the whole wall be a screen but what about the speakers, so I just went as big as the wall and used an acoustically transparent screen. Anyway, our problems are good ones to have, I mean you can't lose with dual 16-46PC+ subs or one pb13-ultra.

Seriously...not a bad problem we have!

Either way I go my next move will take me over the 115db mark for most of the scenes we love!

(well, maybe not PULSE or Blackhawk)....but I'll be close!

Roger Clark, Holy Cow!
I was reading your comments and noted that you had the PC Ultra 13 tuned to 20Hz and gain at 11 o'clock, and I thought cool, he has the same sub and settings as me. Then I saw you had the Denon 3808 and I thought, wow, he has the same receiver as me. But now you said that you had the 20-39 PCi plus before the the ultra 13 and I thought, did I write all the comments for you because it was exactly what I did, I got the plus first, had it for awhile and finally decided to upgrade to the Ultra 13 and I must agree that it sounds so much more detailed and clean. And if you're asian you maybe my long lost brother!

On a side note, what mains are you running and did you do any firmware updates for you Denon 3808? If so, how did it go and did you notice any sound quality improvements?

Funny! Well, I had a Sunfire Signature for years and it did surprisingly well in that room. SVS told me the 20-39 would go deeper and louder than the Sunfire, but I don't think they have any hands on experience with the Signature series. The 20-30 would hold it's own and sound a bit cleaner mid bass, but down low it was bottoming before the Sunfire. I elected to upgrade to the 13 ultra and SVS graciously extended the demo period until the PC13 was available so I could just swap out. This sub blows them both away in every department.

I have done two firmware upgrades on the 3808 but have not done the most recent yet. The big improvement came in the audyessy for me, the unit now calibrate within 1db of what my meter does and of course has curves for the room (to the extent that I don't need the eq in the Ultra). I like this receiver very much having previously had a Onkyo 939 and then a B&K AVR307. To my ears, this receiver matches up with my speakers better than anything previous. The speakers are Polk RT2000P up front, Polk CS-350LS, and Polk F/X 500i surrounds.

I'm not Asian but I'll take another HT brother anytime :)

Nice upgrade Brad, now you have no excuse not to hide those wires ;)

No one with a Conquest ever tried eh? Sure would have liked to see those numbers.

1) 115 dB @ ~13 ft
2) 119 dB @ ~1m
3) ~1960 ft^3
4) SVS PC12-Plus
5) Master @ 0 dB equivalent, all speakers inc. sub set to 75 dB @ 0dB equivalent. Uncorrected.

All speakers were on for this test. Crossover @80Hz Readings peaked before Darla started "twinkle twinkle little star."

RS Digital meter, using max function.